The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - The World According to Sheba

Episode Date: August 28, 2021

Sheba Mason is a NYC based comedian whose album was recently released called “Not Just a Whore.”  Danny Cohen is a Comedy Cellar regular.

This is live from the table, the official podcast of New York's world famous comedy seller coming at you on Sirius XM 99. And on the left, the Laugh Button Podcast Network, Dan Natterman coming at you with Noam Dorman is here, the owner of the world famous comedy seller. We also have Perrielle Ashenbrand, brandy was our producer and she's a comic and a writer and we have danny cohen comedy seller regular comedy seller podcast regular and all around regular regular guy so welcome everybody uh noam you're you're at home did you any particular reason you're scared of the delta is that why you don't want to come in the studio? I can't really say. I can't say.

I have reason to be home. I wasn't feeling well today, but it's not COVID. I'll tell you off air, Dan. All right. I'll message it to you. You don't have Zoom. But no, it's not because of Delta that I didn't come in. I just couldn't come in today.

Not a problem. Although we sometimes have sound issues with Zoom. So I want to keep Zooms to a minimum. But usually when it's only one person on Zoom, it's OK. Sometimes when we have more than one Zoom going, we get sound issues. Anyhow. Can I just say that I have never seen Dan laugh so hard as he was just laughing downstairs. Will you tell that brief story?

You mean about the wedding? No, about Louis Schaefer. Oh, Louis Schaefer. Oh, Louis Schaefer. I mean, better for Louis Schaefer. We're here. But Louis Schaefer was Well, Louis Schaefer. I mean, it'd be better if Louis Schaefer were here, but Louis Schaefer was a comic that used to work here. And then Rick Crome wrote a theme song for him, not an opening theme song and a closing theme song.

How'd it go? And it would let the love flow, let the love flow. Let's all give a cheer. Basically like that. Cheer clear the way for Louis Schaefer. Louis Schaefer's here. And then there was a closing theme song. And he bombed for 10 minutes.

And then the closing theme song came on. After they hated him for 10 minutes, the closing theme song came on. And Esty came down and started screaming, shut this off. Anyway, that's not relevant to any other things we'll be discussing today. But but Perry, I wanted me to.

Great story. Great story. The big news this week is the big pullout. Yeah, the big pullout of Afghanistan. Before we talk about Afghanistan, Perry, I'll ask you one question. Yeah. Can Ari come over after camp tomorrow because Mitchie's coming over? What's tomorrow?

I think so. Okay. Go ahead. Afghanistan. Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, that's the big story. I mean, I don't know.

You know, it's a big mess that the U.S. pulled out and the Taliban is taking over within days. And I guess a lot of the people that are where our allies over there are facing potential revenge from the Taliban folk. So we're like and I know Charles Wojcik, who was actually on this show. He's a comic and a veteran of Afghanistan. He posted on Facebook, hey, Afghanistan vets, I'm here for you. If anybody wants to talk or whatever, something like that. So, I mean, I guess a lot of Afghanistan vets feel like they feel bad because they feel like all the work that they did over there is for nothing because the Taliban ended up taking over anyway. And then Biden said, well, that's not really why we were over there. We weren't over there to replace the Taliban.

We were over there to punish them for 9-11 and to make sure that it could not be used as a base for another 9-11 which now it can be because we're gone so is there any validity noam do you think to that point of view that biden had uh said i mean i don't i don't know how much you you're you're uh you how much research you've done on this particular topic i i don't i mean i don't know how much research you've done on this particular topic. I don't think there's validity, no. I don't know. I mean, obviously, however, if you just want to assume, okay, we decided we're going to pull out, there is just a fertile ground for just pointing out

all the dumb decisions they made just to implement their own stated goal of pulling out. Obviously, you don't pull out backwards. You get everybody out first. You keep maximum military presence in there as you get everybody out. And then the last thing you do is take out the big guns, right? I mean, that's the last thing. Then you turn the lights out. So if they're going to leave Afghanistan on its own, this was just a totally incompetent way to pull out. But I don't think they should have left.

You know, it looks terrible. I mean, it looks like America's in decline. But we're going to stay there forever. Well, we're still, we're still, yeah. I mean, well, I don't know. We're still in Germany. We're still in Japan. We stay there as, as long as two things are true, as long as it's in our interest to stay there. And as long as we can satisfy our moral obligations there.

So strategically, it doesn't seem like the world is sufficiently a safe place now that we don't need to have a foothold in that part of the world. Would anybody be shocked now if in the next year a new terrorist threat just reconstituted in Afghanistan, you know, and Pakistan? And so I don't think that we can leave so quickly, number one. Number two, we have a moral obligation to those people. We went in there and people risked their lives and and now they're going to get slaughtered um because they were associated with us that's just not acceptable right um forever is a long time i don't know we don't have to be there forever you know there's a whole generation now of afghani uh people in their early 20s who never knew the taliban so maybe after 40 years uh this kind of fever would break and it's

you know after and when when majority of people in the country had lived in freedom maybe the taliban wouldn't be able to come back so easily i don't know i mean i don't know but we weren't taking heavy casualties we hadn't we hadn't lost anybody in a year and a half so i don't see the urgency where where is well like while while the the.S. is there, where is the Taliban? Are they like at bay, like in the mountains? Like, where are they? I don't know. Well, actually, I heard something else on the news today, apparently because the weather there is so horrible.

The fighting only goes on six months of the year. And the fall and winter, nobody fights because the climate is too oppressive. So among all the mistakes they made, someone made the point, well, you know, they knew better than to pull out now during the warm months. They should have waited until the cold months because in the cold months,

the Taliban wouldn't have been able to move so quickly. So it's like from every angle. Yeah. i mean you have you seen these women getting women get raped and beaten and taken as sex slaves and how could we do this how could united states of america do such a thing i i don't understand it it's the chiefs of security. Who's in charge of international warfare? Who's in the head of... What is the guy called? Chief in the White House.

Not the president. He's in charge of that. Do I change the staff? Not chief of staff. President. Defense secretary. National security. No.

Who's in charge of warfare of the country? Defense secretary. Defense secretary. Who's our defense secretary now i forget his name it really falls on him really no it falls on the president yeah but the defense secretary should know a lot i mean what's he doing i don't know i don't know what anybody's doing it seems absolutely psychotic that we we i mean i've never agreed so wholeheartedly with noam on anything political in my life

yeah um so i mean it's in it's just a fucking atrocity yeah lloyd j austin and so he should know better he should have known that it was the wrong time of year to pull out he should have known that you know you don't pull out all at once little by little i don't who is this guy i'm not blaming him but i mean everybody has a job there's there's a lot of stories out there that are saying that biden just overruled everybody i mean really you really have the feeling that this guy is just not up to the job right i mean it really just it just that's really what it seems like i mean trump did this process, but you kind of feel that Trump would have just, you know, as soon as shit hit the fan, he would have dropped a bomb or assassinated somebody. You know, Trump was kind of allergic to the idea of looking like you're

leaving with your tail between your legs, you know, that really rubbed him the wrong way. So I'm not trying to defend Trump, but it's hard to imagine Trump being comfortable in the same way that Biden seems comfortable with the way this is going on. I mean, is there any backtracking here? Like, is there any recourse to be like, whoa, this was like a huge fuck up. Can we take a step backwards? And it's too late i mean it's just too late it's just i've never seen a worse foreign policy decision in my lifetime i just never seen anything like that terrible i mean it's just devastating it really is i mean isn't it obvious you you know you have all these translators and um and women and i mean you have a list like i don 20,000 people, you get them out first. Yeah.

I mean, if we're talking about it, we can't get out every woman in the country. Well, maybe no, but the people who, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know enough about it, but everybody, well, then we should stay there. But I mean, people who were on the list of people who were associated with us, associated with people who were associated with us, people who were associated with us, families, there's a big list of people that are trying to get out. They had to get

every one of those people out first. But really, I don't think we should have left. I don't see how you can leave. You can't solve every problem in the world. I get that. But this was our problem. And we didn't have to leave. And then, how is it... We should probably get Charles Wojcik on, you know, the the the guy was talking about earlier, the Afghan vet slash comedian. What I mean, how do you spend 20 years training a military supposedly and then leaving and then five minutes later well even even that if you read about it apparently the reason one of the reasons

that the afghan military uh uh couldn't operate is because we also pulled out all logistical support we pulled out uh the ability to to repair things we pulled out the whole military was trained um to to work with american air support we pulled out the air support. If you start reading this stuff, every single story portrays a debacle of judgment. So we trained them, but we trained them

so when they fought, they would fight with our help, with the help of the U.S., and then we weren't there to help. And so they couldn't fight the Taliban. Or it was like you learned how to ride a bicycle on a bicycle. And then we took away the bicycle. Right.

Those analogies go, that's not my favorite. Yeah. Look at no one's face. But I don't know enough about armies and stuff. It doesn't it doesn't shock me that the army, um, listen, these soldiers, they, they decide what the future holds and if they know that the future holds defeat, they, they give up very, very quickly. That's what,

that's what, um, the Iraqi army did when we invaded Iraq, you know, that. So at some point they just got the feeling that America was gone and the Taliban was going to win. They don't want to die. So that's not what the, the, the Germans did in world war two. They really had to have it. They really had to have the defeat brought home to them in a pretty obvious way. So I don't know if that's a general rule but um in any case but i was funny to say about jericho because i was thinking like you know this whole nation building

thing i mean if we had if let's say let's say the rebuilding of germany had gone really badly would we then say that oh we should have never done this to begin with we shouldn't have tried i mean you know people that we had no business trying to do this. I mean, we successfully put democracy in Germany and Japan and South Korea and not so successfully in Afghanistan. Maybe the cultural differences,

but we're trying. We're trying. We're not doing bad work. We're not doing evil work. We're not doing evil work. It's funny that the left, you know, always talking about the evil of America, but the evil here was leaving. Anyhow, we have with us a guest.

Sheba Mason is here. Let me backtrack a second. Where is she? She's off camera. But in July, I guess it was two weeks ago, three weeks ago, we lost a great legend of comedy, Jackie Mason, at the age of, I guess, 93. I mean, you never really knew how old he was. Wikipedia, I think, said he was 89. I always suspected he was older.

And then when somebody dies, you find out how old they are. So I think he he was 89. I always suspect that he was older. And then when somebody dies, you find out how old they are. So I think he was ultimately 93. Anyway, Sheba Mason, let me give you an introduction. That's a little bit better than that stuttering intro that I had given you. We like to give introductions on this show that are worthy of our guests. She's just released an album called Not Just a Whore. And she's been on stage since age two as a stage prop in her mother's play and been doing stand up since the age of 19. I'm not sure how old she is now, but

but 35, 35. So she's there. So 16 years, if my arithmetic is correct. So Sheba Mason, welcome. Hi, thank you for having me. And Sheba is she's been on the show before. But for those who may not recall, your relationship with your father, with Jackie Mason, was not exactly a normal father daughter relationship. So if you wouldn't mind just a bit about that. A lot of people ask me, you know, it was sad that he died. I mean, it's always sad to lose a parent, no matter what your relationship is. There's a certain lack of closure to it. He was 93. So is it ever really sad when somebody 93 dies? Maybe not. It's not a tragedy, of course, but it was still, you know, it was a very emotional moment for me. And the funny thing

is, is like my mother is married, right? She's married to a cantor in a synagogue. She's a really great marriage for 20 years. And the night he died, it was Saturday night. I was opening for Joe Mackey somewhere in Connecticut. And my mother, her husband took her out to like this really nice dinner. He was off from the it was off from work and he was on vacation. And they drove like two hours to this fancy piano bar. And he's spending all this money on her. And like, it's nice and it's getting romantic, which, you know, is not that often after a 20 year marriage. And like, you know, they're very romantic. And then she gets, she finds out from somebody who texted her that like he died and she starts crying about Jackie Mason again. And my stepfather was so pissed, like not really understood,

but you know, he was like kind of pissed. He's spending like all this money. But people did ask me about my relationship with him, like in my relationship with the afterlife and in regards to him. And I say, well, I believe in the afterlife. You know, I mean, he's been ghosting me for years. But before he died, our relationship was getting a little better. We're getting a lot closer. This is something I say you know on stage but i saw him on the street and he actually recognized me and i know he recognized me because the minute he saw me he ran the other way she but so so you have to tell the the listeners that they probably don't understand so what what what were the circumstances of your birth and the fact that

you don't have a relationship you didn't have a relationship with your dad just to bring people up to speed because they're not going to understand. Well, he was with my mother for 10 years and then he wasn't. And, and he's a very, I don't want to say that we're controlling, but he is like a very intense manager named Jill, who was always his manager. And she was always like in the background,

she knew him before my mother. And like when I was born, she really didn't like that. So what year in the 10 year relationship were you born? Of course, the final year, the final. Yes,

of course. And then it was, you know, like God, you know, they say that God makes babies look like their father so that the father sticks around. I'm like, God, maybe come up with a new plan. I still look like my father.

So he did not. He denied being your father, correct? For a little while. But then he was he had to prove paternity and he paid child support until I was 18. And, you know, that's that's how it went. I mean, he did pay a child support and there's all sorts of things, you know, I mean, it's, my name is Shiva Mason and on my birth certificate and everything else,

whether anybody likes it or not. Was he wealthy? Did he die wealthy? Well, we're trying to find that out. That's what we're doing now. So you didn't, you didn't have a relationship with him growing up other than that? He's obviously supported you like you didn't see him or he just didn't want to have anything. To be honest, and I've never really said this on a podcast before. I've always tried to make it funny, but no, nothing, nothing at all.

I mean, like people say, oh, we didn't send you a birthday card. No, no, there was no. What was the longest conversation you ever had with? It was about, um, well, when I was 18. No, I was I was 20 years old and I was bartending in the Broadway theaters. You know, it's like a nice job for a kid because you bartend and you don't really make a lot. It's like a side job. You don't make a lot of money, but you get to see all the shows for free.

So I was bartending for Spamalot at the time. And David Hyde Pierce was in Spamalot. And I love that show. But anyway, so I was walking out and he was coming out of the Helen Hayes Theater where he was, where he had his Broadway show. And he was about to get into the car. And he like he said, I said, hello. And he goes, oh, who are you? And he looked at me like he wanted to hit on me because, you know, why not? It's flattering, though. At least I made the cut. But anyway. But so he he just was like, you know, basically to make a long story short, he just said,

I want you to come to my show tomorrow. You'll come at seven. My show, you know, of course, it's at eight. And he's like, we'll sit. We'll talk it over. He knew who you were after I made myself known. And then he invited you to the show. Yeah. And he was really, really friendly. And he said, come to my show and we'll talk it over and we'll sit before my show. And I was so excited. And then he said, if they don't let you in for some reason, come to my house. Right. So I start to take out a pen to write down his address. And he goes, don't write it down. Jill's parents are standing right there. Wow. So like that's that control. I just saw the Aretha Franklin movie. And even like Elton John, not that he's as famous as they were, but like I just it seems to be that when you get to a certain level, you might happen to stumble on people that seem to control you for whatever reason. I don't know

how that works, but it definitely was a thing. And so, okay. So I take out a pen and so, so I'm like, you know, reeking with anticipation the next day, you know, and I'm 20, I'm really naive. And my mother said, don't get too excited like you know and then so i go to the theater and there was a letter waiting for me from his lawyer which i still have saying like you can't come in for whatever like bullshit reason are you allowed to say yeah yeah it's real so it was like and like uh so i couldn't uh go in and um then when I went to his house, they told me he moved. So, you know, you know, so and then after a while, when I would see him on the street, I live on 56th Street, and he lived on 57th Street, and he would always hang out at the Applejack Diner. And I would see him and like,

you know, just have to sort of one time I had one of my jokes published in the New York Post, which said, I wish a better looking comedian was my father, like Woody Allen or Rosie O'Donnell. And it's just a joke, you know. So he said, this is who you compare me to a fat yenta like Rosie O'Donnell, like Woody Allen. And I said, well, help me write a better joke if you want to. But he just like was like basically fuck off. I wasn't busy. He just said fuck off. And so after that, when I would see him on the street, it's like I'm not it's like like how many times can you try to be friendly with someone who doesn't want to be friendly with you? But even so, I still always said, like, you know, when I pass him by the Applejack Diner, the only thing worse than not being able to talk to him is really not is not even seeing him there at all. Like it was still some sort of like I would be on my way home and I would see him. And it was still like nice to know he was alive and well and doing his thing.

You know, you still feel it's a strange thing. The way biology works, you know, I think a lot of people would have just said, fuck him. I know, you know, and a lot of people say that on your behalf. Right. I know a lot of people say, why does she even care about this guy? And he didn't treat her right. And I don't know if I was raised right or if I was raised wrong. You know, I was never raised with like a fuck him attitude. I was always raised with like he will probably be back attitude.

And even if he's not be happy that he's your father, wear it like a cologne that he's got to make a good attitude. It's a healthy attitude. She is. I like your attitude. Yeah. Like not not to harbor like resentment. You don't want to carry that. If he if he was not Jack, if he was your father in the circumstances with the exact same except instead of a famous comedian, he were a lesser known comedian or just some guy, just a school teacher or somebody that's not famous. How do you think if at all that would change your feelings toward him? Do you think any of it is to do with. No,

I really don't think um well the fact that he's so brilliant so if he was brilliant anyway um even if he was you know what you know not to admonish other i don't want to like name occupations and admonish somebody you know like let's just say he was just had another occupation whatever you know a lawyer or a scientist or a doctor right something that right that's just not. So like, if he's still brilliant and you can see that he's his brilliance, you're sort of happy that you, um, you know, inherited that gene pool. Yeah. Right. And, um, so I was always kind of grateful for that because I would watch his videos and I'm like, oh my God, he is the greatest comedian that ever lived. But if I watched him being a doctor or wrote some

poetry, he wrote or whatever as a doctor or as a scientist or even discovered something, you know, it's just it's kind of an honor. I'm like, really like, wow, like that's what I come from. And I still wouldn't harbor any resentment. I just but I really think it really does come from the way I was raised from the get go. You know, my mother and grandmother were very adamant about no resentment. My mother never talked shit about him. If anything, she was maybe just sad. She was really madly in love with him. And there was nothing phony about it. There was nothing fake about it. It was just sincere. And it's sad. It's sad, but it's also like, not that sad. Like people have it a lot worse. You know, I have a really nice mom and, you know, I'm not getting any

younger, but who is, but, um, you know, like, you know, there's worse things. People are orphans, you know? Um, so, you know, but he, you know, it's, I was very sad when he died. It was very sad to hear that he died. And one thing I remember reading about him actually, and then he even told my mother and then I read it later is that every single joke he has, he always had a message behind the joke. It was never just like, I'm going to tell a stupid joke. It was like every single thing really is a message and it's true. And he said, he will never tell a joke that he doesn't really believe in the message behind. Did he, um, was he in touch with your mom?

Why did he ever speak or communicate? He had his brother break up with her. Oh, Jesus Christ. Can you imagine his brother? You have a brand new baby. Does the brother talk like him? No. This is Sam.

I think he took that accident, like capitalized on like the Yiddish. How much of it that is real? Because, you know, a lot of people exaggerate their accents and just their personas on stage like Gilbert Godfrey doesn't. When you talk to Gilbert Godfrey offstage, he doesn't go. Yes, yes, yes. He just he's it's that's in there, but it's far less. So when you talk with Gilbert offstage, he's like, Oh, I don't know.

And that's what my mother said. It's like the same. It's like, you know, we're all exaggerated versions of ourselves on stage. I don't know. You seem to have a really incredible like attitude or sense about you with it. I really admire that. Thank you. I cannot take you. I cannot take her. I can Perrielle seriously in that mask.

Oh, shit. You look ridiculous. You know what? You're so full of shit because if I didn't have this mask on, I know for a material fact that I would also never hear the end of it. Well, why is that? Because he would tell me that I am a hypocrite and look ridiculous. Well, also that it's

like that K-95 makes you it's kind of like a duck. It's like I mean, it's vertical, but it's like a duck bill. But it's it's she. But did you feel like did you did you want to pay a shiver call to his sister or so? Well, I am really good friends with that side of the family. I have a really

cool cousin who's like my first cousin once removed who embraced me. I'm not physically, but like, you know, you have to really say that now. When I was when I was like, like in my like late teenagehood and he invited me and I ended up performing at his synagogue in Nebraska and and I met his children. And then like when my father died, he called me, he said, he said, said, I'm going to talk to you like a rabbi. And then I'm going to talk to you like a lawyer. Cause he, now he's a lawyer who used to be a rabbi. And he said, the first thing you have to do is you must do a Kaddish for him. You know, are you Jewish? Yes. Okay. So, you know what a Kaddish is. So, you know, I guess with the mask on,

you can't tell. Yeah. They should have invented that in World War Two. But for the listeners who may not know that, that's a prayer for the dead. The dead. Yeah. So I have some mass. Yeah. Well, anyway. Yeah. So you want to let Sheba finish what she was saying?

And then I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You have to say it. No. So to say it. No. So I said it. So I went and met with some other cousins and we said a private cottage. I wasn't invited to the funeral. We just had a private cottage and didn't pay any shiver calls to like his.

I think his sister was sitting shiver. Yeah, but that one sister has always been sort of not that friendly to me. Got it. And she's very old. And it's like, am I going to schlep out to Queens? She was really far deep in Queens. And then the lawyer said to maybe not be welcome. So that was the rabbi. Then the lawyer said. The lawyer said, I know the attorney that Dave,

that Dan Cohen recommended to you user to try to get to try to get money, not to try to get money, but to inquire. I mean, I don't know. To see. I mean, I am. I am. I have a legal background. I'll bet I don't know. I mean, I am. I have a legal background. I'll be it. I never practiced. Well, you can't get in on it now.

Yeah, but but is he legally bound to give you anything? No, he's not. And we found that out. And I knew that. And like, that's fine. And I'm not expecting and I don't really care about anything. I would have liked him. I do think, by the way, legally speaking, if you die and you're still married,

I don't think you can cut off your wife. I believe legally you cannot not. You have to give something to your wife when you die. Even if you hate her. But yeah, but if you're still married, if you hate her, you should have divorced. What if you have a will? Yeah, you can write anything you want in the will. But no, but a will is a will is subject to certain limitations.

For example, my pardon, your wife gets half your wife gets whatever she gets, no matter what, no matter what in the will. And no one has done his research. And I know it seems to be really up to really. If you don't like your wife, you can divorce her and then you don't think you're still get to have I have some questions. But also your kid, if your kid is under 18 you don't have to give her anything. And she still gets half. I have some questions for you. But also, if your kid is under 18, maybe

they have to give you something. It doesn't matter. I think that's interesting. But if he dies without a will, he died in test date, then you would get a share. Yeah, if he died in test date.

I'm not even that concerned about it. Why are we? Okay, here's my question. Because we're Jews, that's what we think about. What was there in your father's background, in terms of the way he grew up, that would maybe have caused him to be such a horrible father to you? Would he have a distant relationship with his parents?

Was he not shown love as a child? That's a good question. So here's the way I see it. He had a wonderful relationship with his father. Okay. And by the way, I found out that my great grandfather was a big deal in Russia. He led people.

He died alone. He was like a big protester for all. His name is Rabbi Meza. Like, like, you know, his real name is Mazza, M-A-Z-A. Like, like I come from a lineage of like real leaders and like, you know, people who, you know, really live life and fight for what they believe in. And they're father and they were really close, tight knit Orthodox community. And what happened was when he became a comedian, it was like devastating to his father because they want you to stay a rabbi, you know, just like they want you to stay straight or whatever, you know, and you can't be you. And they'll go to no length, you know, every length to stop you from what you're doing.

So he had to sever this tie, right? Cut him off, do what he wants to do in life. Was he wrong? No, but it was a very different time. You know, it's not now. And like, you know, and like, so he severed this tie. Boom. I'm going to be comedian like, fuck you. I'm going to do what I want to do. And I think in so doing, he lost like a piece of his soul and just was able to then learn how to like maybe not even really love. Well, we all anybody who's a Simpsons fan knows that story because that's. Yeah. You know, they they integrated that into an episode of The Simpsons where Krusty the Clown wanted to be a clown. And Jackie Mason played his father. Oh, wow.

I didn't know that. And then I have. So he comes. So Krusty comes to the door and Jackie Mason's character says, I have no son. And then and then the crisis is, yeah, you do. I was born. And he says, I didn't mean that literally. I think the ability to do that and not that he was wrong in doing that because he had to pursue what he wanted to pursue.

But I think like, you know, in order to do that, you definitely have to lose. Yeah. Like some sort of something in there. Right. A piece. You wonder it could just be that he associated you with your mother and he had, you know, his beef was with your mother. He really loved my mother. But the only reason he stopped loving her was because she sued him for paternity. And to this day, she almost doesn't know if she regrets it, but he was never going to give her any money or acknowledge the fact that I was his baby. You know, she she was nine months pregnant and he would introduce her as her secretary, as a secretary. Like they're traveling in California. He wanted her at all her shows. They traveled to California together. Was she his secretary? No, no, never. No. No. Never.

No. Do you have a follow-up question? No. I'm not. I mean, my wife is here. What's that? My wife is here. Come here, sweetheart. Hi, Juanita. She just wants to come here and distract me. What? I missed you all day.

What do you mean? I was coming down the stairs. I heard what you were saying. What do you mean? I was coming down the stairs. I heard what you were saying. That's terrible. They can't see you. They don't need to see me. Hi.

Hi, Juanita. That's what it was. You think that's what led to the fact that he couldn't show love to you because he had cut himself off from his father i think maybe yeah what do you think i i don't know i mean yeah it's weird you know because i mean like how you know that seems like a very unusual scenario there's a lot of celebrities that have babies with women that they're with that they weren't they're not with or they used to be with. You know, we know. I mean,

you know, I know people that have kids from one night stands and very seldom is it this level of rejection that I know how to balance the two, probably. Well, it sounds like he was tortured by it really have you ever seen that level i mean i don't know i i you know i don't i yes of course i mean yes there are plenty of people who completely have zero relationship with their children of course you have i mean yeah it's not um i was spent so much time trying to understand it. Yeah, I'm sure. Like why? Absolutely zero.

But so, you know, I had a relationship with him myself by watching him. Yeah. You know, this is this goes beyond this goes beyond the normal. You should write a screenplay. This goes beyond the normal zero relationship of like a deadbeat dad who just disappears or whatever. This is a man of means. Money is not an issue um you know it comes from a a good upbringing he's you know it seems i don't sound chauvinistic but it seems like very un-jewish kind of yeah and and he and he was

almost aggressively yeah uh shunning you of that. Although it sounds like he tried to reach out a few times and got shut down by whatever weird situation he had going on. His people were very much influencing him. Yeah. I kind of see that even in the Aretha Franklin movie that I just saw. I told you this the last time. I mean, I mean, it's very beautiful in a way that you maintain such a gentle outlook on all this. But I think what he did was terrible. I know. I know you're a really nice father.

I wasn't a father. I mean, I just it's just a it it's just a terrible thing to do and there's no excuse for it. And people blaming people who are your manager, people control you, people have to be responsible for their own things. I would just, I just hope that you would not think that is reflection on you in some way, because I'm sure many of them knew me, then he would definitely run away. It's him. It's, it's, it's something broken in here. broken in him yeah for sure i mean and also in a certain way um you know i feel like in in a certain way you have this incredible ability to get whatever you got or or get out of being able to watch him and he really missed out on the joy of being able to watch him. And he really missed out on the joy of being able to

be, you know, have you. So look, you know, I meet so many people tell me I hung out with your father for years. He was so much fun. He's amazing. He did this and that for people. He donated money here. Yeah. People said that about Ted Bundy, too. But it's like, you know, like, so he touched a lot of lives. It's not that he didn't touch lives, you know. So, I mean, I don't know. Like, can you, you know, can you. He was a belligerent guy, though, right? He would have blow ups.

Did you know him at all? No, I didn't know him at all. Did he ever perform? I saw him here once at the Olive Tree Cafe, probably a year or two. It was before the pandemic. Oh, yeah. I saw the pictures. He came here with somebody. I don't, probably a year or two before the pandemic. Oh, yeah. I saw the pictures. I came here with somebody. I don't know who it was. It wasn't Jill. It was some guy.

And he was just looking around. He looked like he was a bit out of it. He he seemed like he wasn't the best, you know, shape. Yeah. And he just kind of looked around and then they left. And what did you write on my Facebook? It was really profound. It was. You said they will not know or something. It was like from. Was it from Hamlet? Oh, I it was. It was from Hamlet. I said, really, really. I said, well, I didn't know it was Shakespeare. I just wrote I just wrote. He was a man taken for all in all.

I will not look upon his like again or something like that. That's from was really good. That's from Hamlet. Well, you know, Shakespeare was good. That's why I'm still talking about it. Five hundred years after he died. But he would get in. He would get into these fights, these public fights. He was called a racist and he would dig in on using the word

Schwarza. Yeah. But in it, but in a. By the way, my father, my father was a big fan of your father's. But anyway, he would just as he got older, too, he would just see these kind of like public outbursts of anger. Right. He got really political and really angry and started getting more and more angry. And I actually heard that, like, he started living in separate apartments from Jill, who's his wife, supposedly. But we don't even know if it is. Oh, that's a plot twist. Yeah.

I don't know, Sheba. Maybe you got like the best gift of all, which is that you didn't have to. I mean, you have it sounds like you have this beautiful, wonderful mother and grandmother. And my grandma's dead, but she was great. Well, she was. Yeah.

And you've had like financially hasn't been easy for you, right? You know, it's been rough for me in general. To tell you the truth, I got stuck in running these really stupid shows at Broadway Comedy Club with the wrong guy. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that on this podcast, but I was like stuck trying to pay my rent. And I didn't realize like the stigma that it would attach myself to forever doing comedy. And like, you know, I wasted a lot of time doing that. And I stopped doing that.

And it just it's just been I had so many blessings that I squandered. And like, it's it's it's been rough. Well, do you ever did you ever say like you're tending bar? You're doing these shows like, fuck, if only, you know, my father could give me a little bit of money or help me out a little bit. You know, I never even allowed myself to have that thought because I knew it was like so impossible that he would ever do anything. So it's like I didn't even like have that thought. You know, I just kept trying to like be a fighter, you know, because I guess I've known you throughout the years. You're always hustling. You're producing shows right now.

You're producing a show. Maybe you could talk briefly about that. You're producing your own show. Well, I found it in the middle of the pandemic, you know, and the reason I was able to do this place was because it was a covered courtyard, you know, and it's a really nice spot. It's of course, it's not the cellar, but it's a really, you know, it's very nice. And it was the middle of pandemic where no one had anything to do and stuff. And then it happened, you know, I found it in July and it started out once a week and then it became every night. Wow. And like, they're very nice there. And like, they, they, you know, they see what I'm doing and stuff like that. And I was able to meet a bunch of different people that I wasn't, I had no access to being tucked away where I was and I didn't even realize.

And I know, know him that you had him on your podcast. Is that a child or in your hands? That's my child. Dog. I had who in my podcast. Al. Oh yeah. Are you a bad relationship with Al?

Well, we're not enemies or anything, but he was really upset when I started that room. She had worked for Al and then she started years. She started another room and located not far away. I guess that was the main issue. And Al and I were really good friends. I'm talking like Passover Seders.

My stepfather did the service at his mother and his wife's mother's, you know, funeral, like because he's cancer, you know, and like I mean, like I got him front row seats to Don Rickles and backstage passes. Like we were like good friends. He always said he was like my father. And so I was like, now I was like another father only because I started a room that seats 20 people. Like what's the big deal. But what, what was I supposed to do? You know? Um, you know, so, uh, you know, you, you, life is, I guess, about choices a lot when you, when you make the wrong ones.

Sometimes you make the right ones. Yeah. But you're producing this room and that's. I love Dan. I've known Danny for years. Yeah, you're producing this room. It's which I've done. It's a nice little room. And thank you. The audiences are good. Thanks. And it's got that the three monkey bar was a called them. Yeah, three monkeys. Three monkeys in a courtyard. Thank you.

Sheba, have you read Dan Natterman's new novel, Iris Spiro Before Covid? What is it? My new novel he's talking about, I was there before Covid. I what? I was Spiro before. Oh, really? Everybody gets the name. It's not the easiest name. Somebody I thought you said I was sterile before. I know I couldn't hear you. I was. I just finished it today. Just finished it. OK. Is it a real novel? Yeah. Yeah.

He just got stopped. We were sitting outside and somebody said, I loved your book. Well, she didn't say I loved you. She said, I'm really enjoying your book. OK, whatever. I just want to be accurate. That's great. And I, I was going to stop her and do some market research. Like, how did you find out about it? And, um, you know, what, what parts did you enjoy the most? You know, like, like one of those surveys you get after like buying a car, but I found another little mistake for you to correct. Oh, did you, was it, is it as big as

the light? Is it as like, is it a typo? No, you said he was on West End Avenue and he turned right to go west. But he meant east. Oh, this was this was during the card when they were

when they were pursuing the other car. Yeah, I'll look into that. But anyway, you finished the novel. You were saying that you had really enjoyed it. The last time I spoke to you, you say you really enjoyed it, but you hadn't finished it yet.

So I said, well, it might go all downhill from there. Did it go down? I want to read your novel. I have not. I really enjoyed this book from beginning to end. I, this was a, I would wholeheartedly recommend this book. This is a good book. I cannot believe Dan wrote it. Did Ray Allen help you?

I actually found it up on my dead roommate's hard drive. I mean, it's like a real book. He's got real analogies and similes and metaphors. But that's not really the bar. Is the bar that low? Like that's what's good about it. To me, a book is more about the story and the metaphors. And it really isn't that overwhelmingly literary. There's not there's not that, you know, there are books that are a lot more literary with a lot more metaphor and a lot more figurative language. Is it on Amazon?

Yeah, it's on Amazon, but I'll give you a copy if you want. I'll buy a copy. I'm just really, really, really impressed. Dan wrote a book and it's a good book. I know some other people who have written books. Well, I'm not talking about Pariel now. I haven't read Pariel's book. Do you know what he said when I said, no, no you know you're so enthusiastic about reading dan's book how come you know you haven't read my books and he goes well

to tell you the truth i'm just a lot more interested in reading dance well it's a novel and i think no one was impressed by that aspect of it yours was a memoir no i'll tell you why i started to read perriel's, but there's a naked picture on the cover and my kids found it and apparently it's not appropriate for your kids. You know, Dan wrote a story and you're writing about blowjobs. It's like, you know.

Right, first of all, I wrote two fucking critically acclaimed memoirs. You can bullshit and make whatever excuse you want about the cover and nonsense and say don't say a word until you read them cover to cover. I need to read your book in a brown paper bag somewhere. I can't I can't read it around the house. Oh, God.

On my knees. I can't read that around the house. That's also a metaphor, by the way. I know what on my knees means. And Dan wrote a book. Do you have a, do you read it on Kindle? Do you happen to have a hard copy? I have a hard copy.

I gave it away though. I gave it to Don Fabricant. Okay. Okay. I've just was it be interested if one, I know, look, not everybody's into reading and Juanita's opinion would be a value to me because she doesn't really work with me. And I think her opinion would be a little more unbiased.

I'll buy it again. I would love to read it. I'll read it. And I would just ask, and you've already done a lot for me. But if you want to ask Liz to promote it on the Instagram feed, of course, you're welcome to do that. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. Okay, I'll do that.

Unless you don't want to, for whatever reason. We already sent out an email to 150,000 people about his damn book. You could give me the graphic. We'll Instagram it. He'll Instagram it. He'll Facebook it. He'll put it on the website. I don't think we have that much Instagram following, to tell you the truth. You do so. What are you talking about? You have 102,000 people. Now, I don't know how much they're engaged with it. I'll put on the website. I don't think we have that much Instagram following to tell you the truth. You do so. What are you talking about? You have 102,000

people now. I don't know how much they're engaged with it. We do? Yes, you do. So I think that I want to just promote this for a second. My new side hustle. Not everybody's watching this on

Perrielle. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. You'm just kidding. No sense. This is not. This is an audio podcast and you're showing. Are you going to write a book? You should write a memoir. You should write it. You should absolutely write it.

Like so conceited. Like, who cares? No, I wrote to. So like a love letter to your dad or like call Jackie Durst. Right. Almost like what you could have had your angle of its come. And it will come from a loving way, you know, from a loving place. Could be really fantastic.

That's a great idea. Yeah, we'll see when I. Yeah, cash in. That's what i'm trying to say cash so much for having me here to honor him i really appreciate it thank you i really okay is he and you can be objective because of your relationship with him where would you put him on your top list of top five or ten comedians honestly like i like I think he's my I mean, he's my favorite comedian. After that is a tell David Tell. No. What is what is your where do you put Jackie on the list?

I don't know. I haven't seen enough. I know that when Jackie Mason was funny, like like his like in the 90s. No, I well, I didn't mean it by dates, but yeah. But just the various times I've heard bits of his which were just super funny, I think those stood up with the very greatest of all time. Who else do you think is great? But I don't know.

The usual suspects. Like the older guys. Carlin and Pry prior and all those guys carlin was great but i think carlin was so great but he never like made me really like really laugh he was like very analytical but i feel like i laughed more at jackie mason like his syntax well i didn't like carlin like for the last 30 years almost like when i was a kid the album class clown and yeah we we all listened to that in high school and middle school and it was hysterical they then he began to take himself very seriously and kind of become preachy

and i never cared for for that george carlin but uh and richard prior but a lot of these guys um had one or two classic presentations, and then they never, the rest of it was just not quite as good. Like, right, Richard Pryor had that one movie in the red suit with the monkey and Leon Spinks and all that. And none of the other movies were that. It's hard to keep going, going, going, you know. But Jackie's best stuff, I guess, was his one man show on Broadway.

I mean, he had eight one man shows on Broadway. Well, the one that I saw was the world, the world according to me. And that was great. And I not that. And I saw some videos he did on YouTube, one video about Starbucks, which was very funny where he's ranting about Starbucks, which I enjoyed. I don't know if that's part of any of his one person shows. But yeah, I would put Jackie pretty high on my list. I don't know if I put him necessarily at of his stand up one person shows. But yeah, I would put Jackie pretty high on my list.

I don't know if I'd put him necessarily at number one. Who's number one, do you think? I mean, the way he does this and he does that, like he could read the ingredients on a Coke bottle. It could be funny. Like, yeah, you know, he might be so funny. He in terms of making me laugh, he might be at the top. I think David Tell is more brilliant. I love in terms of his mind, in terms of his thoughts, in terms of, you know, well,

he's more now, too. He's certainly more modern. Yeah. She did you become a Chappelle is is is is probably more insightful. But then again, Jackie's fucking good. I mean, was jackie's very insightful actually it comes from a different political point of view but just as insightful if not more so in a way um uh not more i'll take that back now it's not more so but just as insightful just coming at it from a different angle um he was conservative uh but she did you did you become a comedian uh coincidentally or you did it because your father was a comedian? It was actually quite coincidental because I've always been, you know, my mother's a playwright, you know, and she was very into show business. And I always grew up in theater and I sang my whole life. I, you know, I took singing lessons and was in a lot of plays as a kid and like

regional theater. Like I would leave school to do plays. I have a really good singing voice, not that good, but I'm not a Grammy award winner, but I had a really good, I don't even know. But anyway, so I did have a really good singing voice and, um, you know, I would, I would do a lot of musicals. When I moved to New York, when I was 18, I just moved here to like audition for plays. And I realized they're not going to pick a short Jewish girl who can't dance that well, you know, with all the dance lessons I've had. And, you know, I'm Jackie Mason's daughter. I can't dance that well. So then I got a job at the New York Comedy Club and started taking a class and I became a comedian.

Like, you know, it's nice to be on stage without having to rely on other people that much, you know, or like rely on someone to pick you, you know. Well, all right. So that was fun I mean, it's been a fun time being a comedian, you know My wife wants to hear you sing something Sing your favorite tune I can't right now

Thank you I can't, I can't right now My voice is very hoarse right now Are you going to sing a Bonnie Tyler song? I'm not, I'm just not I just don't know if I'm satisfied with the answer. You would have become a comedian if your father hadn't been a comedian. Or or do you think you inherited the.

It's hard to believe it's sheer coincidence. No, it's not sheer coincidence. When I was six years old, I started doing a show. To get him to approval from him in some way? No. I shut that out. I really blocked that out. When I was six, my mother was friends with this guy

named Frankie Mann who had a big show in the South Florida condo circuit. Do you guys know what the South Florida condo circuit is? It's like the 55 and over communities. They're not sick or anything. They're just 55 and over like they're not they're not um you know sick or anything they're just 55 and over like you see in seinfeld and like uh you know they have giant theaters and he would perform in all these theaters frankie man and he would bring me up as a little girl i

was six and we would do patter back and forth and i would get laughs and i remember learning how to like pause for a laugh my mother used to tell me like you have to because i would like talk over the laughs like pause for the laugh and like you know to tell me like, you have to pause. Cause I would like talk over the laughs, like pause for the laugh. And like, you know, these are jokes, you know, like she would explain, like we wrote these jokes and like, it was really fun doing that, you know? And, uh, I really enjoyed like the uproar of applause and like, I would sing and have some patter. He would bring me out for 10 minutes and pay me $20. And it was like a lot of fun, you know? And I enjoyed it from then. So then when I finally got to New York, I was like this. I know I really like doing comedy and I really always loved.

I was obsessed with comedians and stuff, you know, and, you know, I really did enjoy that. Do you ever feel like doing your father's act on stage? I don't know if it would how much it would hold up now, like like you do shows for people who are like 23, 24. I don't know if he would translate to this i just i wonder he's never come to this that's a good question never come to the cellar but i wonder like if he had come here on at 10 p.m on a saturday night

i i do wonder you know i think it would be great if sheba took a lot of his jokes made them her own and and she can do that yeah Yeah, she's she's allowed to take her father's joke all of his joke. I don't think I make them your own. They wouldn't hold up now. I don't know. You can make you can make them. You can modernize them. They I don't think those jokes would work without the the way he said

them. And he's a guy for whom jokes are like Gilbert Godfrey. Fun to try. Gilbert Godfrey is in that category of jokes that just absolutely have to be presented in a certain way. Attell is in that category. I mean, if you just went on stage and in any other way just said, yeah, you know, girls don't like anal sex. They love it.

It wouldn't work. It has to be, you had to look like him. She looks like him. She can do his cadence. She can do it. I don't know if she can do it. I don't know. I think it cadence. She can do it. I don't know. I don't know. I think it's a fun thing to try.

I don't know. You can even have a one person show saying, you know, you know, like I don't know. That's even legal, by the way. It is. She that's anything. That's what she does. It's not legal. Why not?

Because who's going to sue her? Well, that's another story. Whether she gets sued or not, the estate of Jackie Mason. I'll have to ask. I got your back. We got to end. But I just want to say Jackie Mason was brilliant. But I don't think he wrote a novel, did he? Well, no, I like Dan Aderman.

No, I've been saying I think I've gone up a level of Noam's esteem. I'll say that. Absolutely. You know, it really seems impressed with you he does seem impressed i appreciate it i i i i'm totally impressed by by first of all it's one of the only times i ever had to read or listen or do anything you know to to to a creation by a friend that uh i actually was looking forward to. Thank you. Join it. You know, this book is is it is truly a good book.

And I repeat myself, it's exciting. I'm excited to read it. Well, it's got to turn it into a screenplay. Well, Judd Apatow has a copy, so maybe he'll, you know, or not. Either way. I'm so proud of you. Does it work as a screenplay?

I'm not sure. I don't know. It might work as a Netflix limited series. For sure. Yeah, that's exciting. But I think that's better. Actually, we work as a series with new. You have new storylines and new stuff, right?

Like the ongoing. Yeah, you could. You could. I mean, it could just be a limited series. It's one season, you know, like like what they did with the chess show. What's it called? The Queen's Gambit, which was excellent, too. And a bunch of other limited series are great.

Yeah, I mean, I think Netflix, what happens is, is these limited series become successful and they want to make money and they continue it. It's never as good now, but they're trying to make money. So I get it. In any case, if that is on the table, I'd like to submit a job application as what writer, showrunner, whatever. I'm flexible food services. Well, I'm happy to pass along your, uh, your writing sample. And the, to the appropriate people. Can we wrap it up?

We can certainly do that. So anyway, apropos, apropos of my book, Iris Spiro before COVID available on Amazon. It's also available on barnesandnoble.com Spiro Before COVID, available on Amazon. It's also available on Barnes and Noble dot com. But most people buy it on Amazon. In fact, I don't think anybody's bought it on Barnes and Noble dot com. But because I think they had to go through Amazon anyway. But anyway, it's available on Amazon.

Jeff Bezos is where is my partner. He gets he gets four dollars forever, actually, for every book. What's the currency on the moon? No. Well, he didn't quite get to the moon. But anyway, Perry Hall has two books out. This is a very literary podcast.

Perry Hall has two books out, On My Knees and The Only Bush I Trust Is My Own, also available on Amazon. I have not read them, but people really enjoy them. Bernie fabricant enjoyed them a great deal. And I'm selling ties. Danny Cohen ties.com. Try them out.

He does sell ties. He's not kidding around. They're embroidered ties, beautiful ties. I designed them in New York, man, New York city. They're very nice. And Shiva Mason is producing a show every weekend at three monkeys, which is where the fourth and Broadway before the Broadway. They have great food there, by the way. Go for the food.

Stay in the comedy. And and I drop by there sometimes. I haven't been in a while because I told Sheba when I have new material to try it, I'll go and but don't she asked me every week and i she can continue to do so that does not bother me and i drop by also everywhere um i will i will come back at some point i just you know when i have some new stuff to work out anyway um i guess that's it thank podcast at comedyseller.com thank you questions comments and suggestions. We weren't actually that respectful this podcast, but

of course, our condolences to you for losing your father. Oh, thank you. Very emotional, no matter what your relationship is. Thanks. Thank you. I really appreciate you having me on, Noam. Our pleasure. Well, I thought it was a good show. I thought we appreciate you because that to me

was interesting. Anybody else? Oh, she's a class act. She is. So you're almost like a therapy session. If you were my kid, I'd be so proud of you. I think you're a class act. You're refined. You walk through life with really,

you have a very healthy mind. You're smart. You're kind. I love you. I don't know. If you were my kid, I wouldn't want to see so much cleavage, to be honest. Other than that, I'd be proud to have you as my daughter. I wore the jacket. Thank you. Bye, everybody.

Bye.