The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Thomas Cathcart, Daniel Klein, Dov Davidoff, Keith Robinson, and Molly Mulshine

Episode Date: May 4, 2018

Thomas Cathcart and Daniel Klein are the authors of the book, "Plato and a Platypus Walk Into a Bar: Understanding Philosophy Through Jokes. It has been translated into 30 languages. Dov Davidoff and Keith Robinson are New York City-based standup comedians and actors. They may be seen performing regularly at the Comedy Cellar. Molly Mulshine is a New York City-based standup comedian and freelance journalist. She is the author of the recent Elle Magazine article titled, "Maybe She's Born With It. Maybe Sarah Huckabee Sanders is Propping Up a Bigot and the Joke Was Fair."

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar Show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. The Comedy Channel, we're here at the back table of The Comedy Cellar. The famous table. My name is Noam Dorman. I'm the owner of the comedy cellar. Next to me, I have, weighing in at 135 pounds, Mr. Dan Natterman. Shouting what? Dan Natterman. Well, I wish I was down to 135, but I'm hovering at about 150.

But good to be here in any case. And a man who actually is a boxer. A man who actually... I've done a little boxing. Mr. Dove Davidoff. Yes, yes. Gentlemen. And our two guests of honor are

Cathcart and Klein. Thomas Cathcart and Daniel Klein have been friends for 61 years. Wow. That's actually worth talking about, just that. And the authors of Plato and a Platypus Walk Into a Bar. Understanding philosophy through jokes. It has been translated into 30 languages.

Welcome, gentlemen. Now, Dove is our kind of like resident philosopher. I'm a philosophy fan. I don't know much about it, but I've read a few things. No, but this looks fascinating. How would you

describe what it's about, essentially? Can we tell you the origin story? Yes, please. Okay. So, as you know, Danny and I have known each other for 61 years because we met in college on our first day in college. We went to Harvard. There you go.

How about that? That's what Harvard was easy to get into. Well, there's something to that. We studied philosophy at Harvard. My mother was so proud. God bless her. Okay, Harvard. 61 years. My mother was so proud. God bless her. Okay, Harvard, 61 years is what year?

61 years is 1957. 1957, okay. Yeah, before you were born. So you guys were like Jews for Stevenson or something like that? Something like that, yeah. Although it was tougher

to get back in as a Jew. It was tougher to get in. Except Captain isn't Jew. Oh, not a Jew? No, but look, it was tougher to get into Harvard then as a Jew than it was otherwise. So maybe they had it even more difficult.

There could have been more obstacles. There could have been, yeah. I don't know. Anyway, go ahead. All right. Kat's not a Jew, and I was good looking, so they let me. There you go. Actually, I'm part Jewish.

I just had my DNA done. I'm 0.8%. That's just the right amount. That's more Jewish than Elizabeth Warren is Native American. So anyway, we've known each other all these years. We've often lived in different places. Danny's often lived on different continents. We've kept up the friendship.

We've been best friends for 61 years. I was his best man three times. Oh, God. Really? Yeah. He got it right right though. So anyway, so you guys are like Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky from The Undoing Project, the two great

psychology, you know, do you guys know The Undoing Project? Yeah, Thinking Slow, Thinking Fast. We're Thinking Fast. They're very famous partners that had a long, long relationship and developed a tremendous book. You guys are like that, but okay. Well, the tremendous book part is true. This is before you could be out of the closet at Harvard, right?

That's right. Wait, did I get this wrong? I'll tell you who was one of our classmates, and Tom has kept up with a little bit, Barney Frank. Oh, yeah. Speaking of. Who Speaking of him. Who wasn't out. He wasn't out, and I double dated with him and girls.

Really? Really. But did you have your suspicions then? Did you think that maybe, you know, I didn't know what it was. In the mic, in the mic. I see. I didn't know what gay was.

As Barney Frank would say, speak in the mic. Speak in the mic, yes. But gaydar in those days. I'm still not sure what it is. Gaydar in those days wasn't as finely developed as it is today. No, it wasn't as finely developed.

We were in the early stages of gaydar development. Early technology. So go ahead, Doug. You want to talk about philosophy? No, they were telling you an origin story. Yeah, the origin story. So Danny calls me up one night, and he tells me a joke. Should I tell it? You tell the joke.

I'm the Jewish half, right? Yeah. Okay, so this guy is in bed with his best friend's wife and they hear a car come up in the driveway. They know it's the husband's car. So the friend jumps out of bed

and he runs stark naked into the closet and closes the door. A moment later, the husband comes car. So the friend jumps out of bed and he runs stark naked into the closet and closes the door. A moment later the husband comes sauntering in, goes to the closet, opens the door, and he sees Saul standing there stark naked. He says, Saul, what are you doing there?

And Saul says, everybody's got to be somewhere. I remember the joke. Myron Cohen had told me. That's a great joke. Everybody's got to be somewhere. What do you want from me? That's a great joke.

Usually when we tell that in a crowd, it doesn't get much of a laugh. Well, you've got to pick it up, but it's a good joke. So I've actually heard that joke before. And I think I heard Bob Newhart tell it and mention that it was one of his favorite jokes and that he always loved it.

But it's very subtle. I heard Myron Cohen tell it years ago on the Ed Sullivan Show. When I thought about that, I thought, gee, that seems a little far out for 50s TV, but I guess not. Is that an example of the existential joke? It is. Okay, great. So Danny tells me the story, but I guess not. Is that an example of the existential joke? It is. Okay, great.

So Danny tells me the story and I said, gee, you know this little philosophical subtext going there? And Danny said, what is it? And I said, well, Lou, Saul, I guess the guy in the closet, is giving a Hegelian answer to what was intended as an existentialist question.

And Danny goes, yeah. I wasn't as good a student as Tom. He's really smart. I picture him like a beatnik in the 50s. Like, yeah, man. But you're bongo drums. You'd have to communicate what Hegelian means. Exactly. So, no. So he said,

he knew. He said to me, he said, oh, yeah. He said, you know, the guy who's opening the closet door wants a very down-to-earth, individual concern expressed here. You know, what the hell are you of all people doing in my closet of all places? Very concrete, very real, very down-to-earth. And the guy doesn't want to answer that question, obviously. So he answers in a very abstract way, the way the philosopher Hegel did.

So instead of, you know, answering the concrete question, he goes, everybody's got to be somewhere. So Danny goes, oh my God, there's a book in this. What about the joke about... Are you sure he didn't say there's money in this? He didn't think there'd be more jokes that had philosophical content. Oh, wow.

Because he's not Jewish. So we took a bunch of joke books and a bunch of philosophy books. They all have philosophical contexts. Yeah. You can find it all. And not just the Jewish. The Mike. The Mike.

Not just the Jewish jokes. No. Any jokes. Indian jokes. Yes. Unbelievable. You mean Native American or? Yes.

Norwegian jokes. Yes. Norwegian jokes are incredibly philosophical. Because life is absurd and paradoxical And humor I would imagine Helps you not jump off a roof I just want to say The thing that

I don't know if it's unique But the thing like being Jewish That was very much in my home Jokes were to make a point There were lessons Almost every joke that my father told Was brought out when it was the way of expressing a point. Great father.

Great father. And I don't know if that's unique to Jewish culture or not. The Irish jokes are alleviating dogma. You know? It was probably so different. I'm not saying I'm not making fun of your mother. I'm going to say something. Or excusing yourself for showing up late.

At the risk of sounding controversial in our household, no one is speaking for all Jewish households, we tell jokes to laugh. We're Canadian. You guys are overthinking. I doubt it, Dan. You tell jokes to make a point. Go ahead, Dan. Freud said that the purpose of humor was to alleviate anxiety.

Yes. And the two biggest sources of anxiety are sex and death. Yes. And the two biggest sources of anxiety are sex and death. Yes. And we once did a book afterwards. This book became a bestseller. Yes, yes. I'm going to put the mic sideways here

so you can actually look where you want to look. So all of a sudden in our 60s, you know, falling apart, our dicks don't work anymore. There you go. Speak for yourself. Before Viagra. No, I can't.

Your dick doesn't work anymore. I can't. Your dick doesn't work anymore. Bonnie Frank told them. But what was I going to say? Oh, so they give us a lot of money to write about death. Yes. And the philosophy

of death. Yes. Which there are a lot of. And man, when we got into the different cultures. Yes cultures that did it. Now, here's a Jewish one that if you tell to some people, they walk away. It's about this couple in their 90s, and they go to the rabbi and say they want to get divorced. Yes. And the rabbi says, you've been married for 70 years, and you want to get divorced now? Why?

And the woman says, actually, rabbi, we've been wanting to get divorced for a long time, but we wanted to wait until the children were dead. Okay, now, but what philosophical point does that illustrate? The inevitability of death. It's like Ernst Becker. You know, the denial of death was a meditation, a deconstruction

about all of our anxieties manifesting themselves in all of these behaviors and humor being a primary one to mitigate the anxiety. Indeed, we heard from the Ernst Becker Foundation when the book came out.

Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah. Seminal work, no. I do find, just touring about the country, that death jokes are not always welcome. No. You know, in all contexts. Yeah. I do find touring around the country.

Well, you know, that kind of humor is not always what people want to hear. No. Can I tell one more of those? Yeah, of course you can. I love it. This is my favorite Norwegian joke. Most people don't have one. You tell yours first, and I'll tell mine.

I've got a hundred! So the standard characters are Lena and Ole. And Ole dies, and Lena comes down to Oslo to tell the obituary editor. Yes. And the obituary editor says, well, what do you want the obituary editor. Yes. And the obituary editor says, well, what do you want the obituary to say? And she said, oh, just say Ole died.

Yes. And he said, now, come on, Lena, you know, I mean, Ole was very popular. You had children, you had grandchildren. And anyway, the first five words are free. And she said, okay, how about, Ole died, boat for sale. That sounds like a Jewish joke.

It does. It's Norwegian from the start. It's so great. Back to the Jewish thing for a second, though. Even though he's right, we did find them from all different cultures. They were disproportionately Jewish. Like Nobel Prizes. Exactly.

And sex harassers. You got a couple of them. In fact, there were so many that were Jewish that we actually changed names in some of the jokes. Shmuel became John. Sam. Yeah, right. And just because we didn't want it to look like the best book of Jewish jokes or something. So a lot of the jokes in the book

were originally Jewish. So what do you attribute that to? What is it about the Jewish people? Questions. Torah. It's not dogma. Go ahead. Sorry. I mean, some people think it's a survival characteristic. Well, yeah. Things got so bad that you made jokes about it. Yeah.

And there was a certain period. Like soul music for black people? Very much so. Yeah. But there was a certain period in Jewish humor when a lot of the jokes were about trying to pass for not Jewish. Ah, yeah. Eastern European jokes.

So they were really inside. Yes. And they were cruel But they were lessons Yeah I don't know Wittgenstein Can you stop showing off

I'm not showing off What a family that was Oh my god I just read about his whole family's biography Three of his brothers Killed themselves And a one armed pianist What a family that was. Oh, my God. I just read about his whole family's biography in Vienna. Three of his brothers killed themselves. And a one-armed pianist. Nuts.

But Wittgenstein, when he ran off to Norway to stay in an ice hut somewhere. With a fella. That's right. That's right. Like Barney Frank of Norway. Yeah, it was Barney Frank of Norway. Nobody talked about it. Wittgenstein talked about how he thought

a great philosophical work could theoretically consist purely of jokes because of the paradoxical nature of the material. So are you guys into Woody Allen? Yes. I like Woody Allen. You think he did it? You think he did it?

That's a good question. With the little kid? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it was consensual. Oh, that was good. That was good. Really good. That's the best joke I've heard in a long time.

But Tommy can tell you about what happened with the book. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. I think it's kind of interesting. You guys are great. You guys should be on The Tonight Show. Have you been on any of these? Oh, these guys are great.

I'm going to try to get you guys. I mean, not that I have guys are great. You guys should be on The Tonight Show. Have you been on any of these? Oh, these guys are great. I'm going to try to get you guys. I mean, not that I have any connections, but you guys should be on. This is exactly who should be on The Tonight Show as opposed to these know-nothing actors that memorize a couple of lines and suddenly they're being interviewed. But the problem is we're going to be dead in about 16 months. Well, we'll get you there in 10. Thank God then your parents can get divorced. That was a callback to a Norwegian joke.

We just had a bite at Gene's Restaurant on 11th Street. And Danny said to the waiter, he said, I'm 79 years old. He said, tell me, how long am I going to live? And the waiter said, 11 minutes. And Danny said, will I have time to eat the food? He said, I'll put a rush order in. Everybody in New York is, I don't live in New York. Everybody in New York is funny.

I can't believe it. Where do you live? A small town in Massachusetts. Great Barrington. I'm told that the fear of death is a young man's game. And that once you get older, for some reason,

you don't fear it as much. You don't think about it as much. Is that your experience no okay yeah definitely not no i really don't want to die i really don't i don't well no and we don't want you to and but but do you find that you haven't found the changing from when you say you were 40 in terms of the terms of the way you think about it? I think it's more on my mind now. It's more on your mind.

But you know why? Because I'm a friendly person. I have a lot of friends my age, and they're dying. Yeah. And I hear about it every week. Tom is going to a funeral Monday, you know. I mean, I'm a good friend of his. It's just happening all around us, so it's hard to escape.

And do you believe in anything that lies beyond? No, but I have a lot of jokes about it. A lot of great St. Peter of the pearly gates jokes. You want to tell one? Oh, yeah. Should I tell you something about Tommy? Yes.

After we finished our philosophy degrees, he went to divinity school and studied to be a minister. Oh, wow. And he studied with Paul Tillich, the theologian. So he knows his Old and New Testament. Tom, what has your experience been of that search for meaning in the context of humor? Have you just found that it's all kind of so absurd and paradoxical?

Well, I'm glad you asked, Doug. I don't know. No, it's sometimes, every now and then, there's a kind... Who found these guys? This is your idea? This is a great, this is a tremendous idea. He redeemed himself in the last few weeks. Go ahead. Life is a teacup, so it isn't a teacup.

No, no, but the idea of there being an epiphany, like, you know, Leonard Cohen went and studied with, became a monk, an actual, I mean, for seven years, lived in an ashram and really did what it takes to become an actual ordained Buddhist monk. And there were certain types of epiphanies associated with that when he tried to reintroduce himself into a general society. We've taken a lot of drugs to try to do that. Have you taken a lot of drugs? What?

Have you taken a lot of drugs? When we were in college, we had two professors. One named Timothy Leary. And one named... Richard Alpert. Actually, for the listeners, Timothy Leary was known for advocating LSD use.

I told this to a bunch of young people. I have a daughter who's 38 and I was telling some of her friends about this and they said, who's Timothy Leary? telling some of her friends about this and they said who's Timothy Leary? The reason I said it was because there was a recent article that like 60% of millennials haven't heard of the Holocaust or something.

So I presume they don't know who Timothy Leary is. I read that and my reaction is, well, good. They won't get any ideas. I don't know that knowledge about the Holocaust is necessarily the key to preventing another one. I don't know that knowledge about the Holocaust is necessarily the key to preventing another one. I don't see that logic. If Jews could be a little bit more pleasant, maybe...

We need it! Yeah, that would go a long way. I think we need to know about it. You know, people sometimes get inspired by history. It's been said, those who don't remember the past are condemned to repeat it. Who said it? That's George Santayana. But who don't remember the past are condemned to repeat it. Who said it? That's George Santayana.

Santayana, yeah. But those who do remember the past might seek to repeat it. In fact, they say that, well, some say that Hitler was inspired by the genocide of the Armenians. They say, well, isn't that a good idea? You know, this is... That's a great alternate perspective. I've never heard anybody make that argument, but it makes sense. Like, I guess.

I don't know. Although I lean toward us knowing enough history so that we're not likely to repeat it. With the exception of Hitler and a couple of other lunatics, I'm hoping that not a lot of people are inspired by genocide. Yeah. I hope so, too. Well, we're all in agreement there. You're all in agreement there. What do you think of this? I saw a cut of a Bill Maher monologue, and he was talking about how evil a discovery about Donald Trump could we have

to finally turn our minds. That was his... You mean the people that voted for him on an emotional level? There is nothing. Whatever you find out is a spin Either it's fake news or nothing I don't know But he said

What if they found in his closet Anne Frank's skeleton You guys laughed A lot of people don't And the audience that was too far Oh that was too far I think on the other side of the coin. And it was a little too far for him.

I know the answer to the question. What's the answer to the question? The answer is it would have to be something traitorous to the country. But I think the other side of the coin. But would you agree that it was traitorous? I mean, the idea that everything is spent in context is like, what's traitorous? But I'm saying traitors would be, he was, they had something over on him, so he changed American policy to be in line with Putin. I don't think that would be a big problem for a lot of people that support Trump.

He could make an argument that he's saying that overall it was for the best. Well, I think that would be, listen, nothing, no personal morality is going to matter at this point. Listen, compared to JFK, why should it matter? Right. But, oh. Well, it's true. Yeah, compared to JFK, why should it matter? Right. But, oh. Well, it's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're picking shoes, right?

The other side of the coin is also true, that no matter what good he does, it won't be acknowledged. If he does any good, which is a possibility, it won't be acknowledged by the other side

as being good. Can I ask a side question? Yeah. You know, I'm old and grew up with a slightly different morality. I didn't get laid until I was 20, I think.

Does this business of peeing on somebody appeal to you? No, but it does, Dan. Go ahead, Dan. I don't get it. We'll let Dan take that. I don't think it's generational. I've never been peed on, no. Well, why not?

I have been peed on by both my kids when I was at the zoo. On my shoulders. How was it the zoo. On my shoulders. How was it? And it wasn't bad. It wasn't enough to inspire you to go pay anybody to do it again. But just to be fair to Donald Trump, the accusation was not that he wanted to get peed on, although people do like that, is that he wanted to see them pee on the bed that Obama had slept in. And that is appealing.

But I don't know that it's a gen... But the fact is a lot of people do enjoy to be peed on or to watch young ladies pee or older women pee. No, I've read the sheltered life. Older women, it's going too far. I don't know that this is a generational thing. I mean, getting back to Hitler... I mean, poops, I understand.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, scat is something. I mean, getting back to Hitler. I mean, poops, I understand. Well, yeah, scat is something else. I was born in the 30s. But that's the basis of any relationship. By the way, Molly Moshein is here.

Molly, we started a bit late, so we'll get to you. Hi, Molly. Who is she? That's Molly Moshein. She wrote an article for Elle magazine

about Michelle Wolfe. Oh. And I wanted to talk to her. So we're going to swap her in. They would be interesting to talk to as well about the correspondence dinner and Wolfe's material. Let me frame the question this way. How do you feel about the no holds barred kind of humor now that is considered mainstream in a correspondence dinner type thing.

I mean, obviously, even 20 years ago, you would never heard such jokes. What do you think about that? I didn't think she was funny. That was my main thing. Are you concerned about the coarseness of the culture, the things from your generational outlook? Well, that too. It was a little too coarse for my taste. You know, it was too

graphic. You know, graphic. Who needs to visualize her vagina and how it compares to the yarn in a pussy hat? Is that a rhetorical question? That's what she was asking us to do. No, why? Postcardian idealism. Why don't we bring in

Molly. Doug, would you mind? Of course. It comes in next to me. In case he wants to chime in Make sure you don't Dan is like OCD about this shit I asked Noam If he could devote 15 minutes a week To planning the show

Making sure we know when each guest comes And his response was I don't have time That doesn't mean you can't do it with Steven Well you've got to give me full power then. You've got to grant me full power so that Steven knows that I have power to make these decisions. You have full

power. Okay. Full power. Really? Yes, really. Yes, full power. But check with me first. Molly Moleshine, how do you do? I'm good, thanks. How are you? Molly and I are Facebook friends, but I don't know her very well. But I met her here, and I added her on Facebook, probably for creepy reasons. But anyway, that doesn't matter because she's here.

The truth comes out. So, Molly, this is Thomas Cathcart and Daniel Klein. They wrote the book Plato and the Platypus Walking the Bar. Known each other for 61 years from Harvard. Very, very funny, and they know all about humor. So, anyway. May I just add one little thing? Sure. It was a New York Times best

seller. A New York Times best seller. I just wanted to mention that. Which, by the way, is extremely impressive. I mean, there's no PR anymore with these publishers. The data's right. It's a best seller compared to the other books that are not selling.

Molly, I want to basically recuse myself for the most part from the whole Michelle Wolfe conversation because she's a very good friend of mine, number one. Number two, I had some small... Sexual thing with her. No, that wasn't small. I had some, and that yarn joke, anyway.

I had some little pre-show conversations with her about this stuff, and I don't think I could discuss it without talking about that stuff. So anyway, but go ahead. All right, so let me finish my introduction, my long-winded introduction. So in any case, Molly is a comic, I believe. When I met her here, she told me she was a comic. Are you still doing that? Yeah, I am, yeah.

Definitely not professionally, but I am a professional journalist, so I write about comedy. Yeah, so I stumbled on her article on Facebook because every other... She's hot. Go ahead. Get to the... This is a Me Too interview. Everybody, everybody... Anyway, because every other thing on Facebook now is Michelle Wolf.

Have you guys noticed that? Are you on Facebook? Yes. I've never seen a woman or a human being become this famous this fast. Because every other thing on Facebook now is Michelle Wolfe. Have you guys noticed that? Are you on Facebook? I've never seen a woman or a human being become this famous this fast. Except Stormy Daniels. Maybe Stormy. Maybe Stormy. But this is an incredibly overnight... Meteoric.

Meteoric thing. And you wrote an article about... Go ahead. Yeah, basically my whole point was that... I mean, after I watched the set, I didn't think anything was really over the line at all. I thought that she pretty much was the same level of appropriate or inappropriate as any previous male host has been. But I think that people don't like to hear women talk badly about other women,

and it's a very weird side effect of the Women's March and everything like that where we're not really allowed to criticize each other at all, especially not when it comes to appearance and everything. And I just think it's really silly and it infantilizes women. So that was pretty much my... Well, how do you mean? What do you mean infantilizes women? It's like, it's like, why, why wouldn't Sarah Huckabee Sanders be able to take a joke about

her eyeliner, you know? Well, but it's more than the eyeliner. I think the joke that was most controversial was when she compared Sarah Saunders to the woman that plays Lydia on The Handmaid's Tale. This is a larger girl, a fuller-figured woman. Totally.

And I think most people, and rightly so, interpret it. If you see the picture here... Jessica, my wife had a point. I don't think it was about... The comparison wasn't about appearance as much as it was... That's a coincidence. It's like their vibe is the same.

No, but it wasn't... What was the comparison? What was the context of the comparison? I think it's... Was it about like a severe kind of personality? I'll tell you what.

No, the joke was I loved you as Lydia. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Yeah. That's the whole joke. I loved you as Lydia. There was no... I'm just stating the fact here.

There was no remark about her persona, just I loved you as Lydia. I'm just stating the fact here. There was no remark about her persona, just I loved you as Lydia. Right, right. It seems to me that the common interpretation would be that it was a joke about her physicality. Now, that may not have been, but that's how I interpret it. I think that's how most people, I think that's how Cathcart and Klein interpreted it. If I don't, I can't speak for them. Well, that's how Sarah Sanders interpreted it.

But Molly's point was about infantilizing women, which is like if there's a slight, you know, reference to somebody and the idea that, or even an eye shadow kind of making fun of somebody in a way that isn't, it's not like she went after her physically for the most part. But people go after Trump physically all the time and no one is like, yeah, that's my point. It's like, you know. What's your point?

My point is. It's okay? It's okay, yeah. To go after anybody physically? Yeah. How about for a defect? How about if they have a cleft palate? I mean, if it's funny and it's a roast.

So let me ask you this. So it's not a roast, but. Well, kind of it. It's like. In a roast, the person who gets roasted gets to go up afterwards and answer right can I just chime in yes chime

we got a chimer we got a chimer wait wait doesn't that make it completely different I guess it does yeah but I mean I just

I just don't I think that it's unfair to assume that Sarah Huckabee Sanders feelings were hurt by any of that first of all you saw it in her face

I disagree that's just how her face always looks. No, no. No, no. Listen, I didn't think... I'm not coming out against Michelle, but let's not pretend

that black is white and white is white. We saw her face, and that was real pain, and afterwards, she wouldn't even pose. I disagree, yeah. But you can't disagree. It's not even a matter of opinion.

She refused even to appear with her in a picture afterwards. You don't know what a woman looks like when she looks like she maybe wants to cry? I mean, she looked maybe uncomfortable. You have to see my wife. Yeah. I don't know. That doesn't make it wrong.

That doesn't mean that it was necessarily. We got to either get another mic or we got to. God's got to shut up. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Shut up. Oh, shit. It's okay. It's okay.

Not this way. You can't take me anywhere. Go ahead. For our listeners, it was just a spillage. Thank you. Go ahead. Go no. Oh, shit. It's okay. It's okay. Not this way. You can't take me anywhere. Go ahead. There was just a spillage. Thank you. Go ahead. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

I will say this. This is what bothers me about the discussion of this issue. Say what you want about whether you think it's right or wrong. It's okay. About what the standards are in today's world. But I see everybody pretending that the facts are not as they are. This woman was upset. I haven't heard her say that she was, though.

I mean, and if she was, it's her right to be upset. It's her right to be upset. But, I mean, she's a public figure, and I think it's Michelle Wolf's right to... So your view is that you can get up there and say anything you want about anybody, no matter how vulnerable they might be.

So when Trump made fun of the disabled guy, you were actually okay with it? No, because he's not a comedian. Who's not a comedian? Trump. I mean, I didn't... So a comedian's like a licensed 007, licensed to kill, you get a badge,

and now you can say what you want? I mean, I think she was making jokes about a public figure who deserves to be joked about. You think she deserves to be joked... So you think someone... I also didn't take it as being about her appearance, also, I have to say. For the sake of argument, let's say it was about her appearance. No, if you say, I don't think it's okay if it was about her appearance,

then we can argue about whether it was or wasn't. But you're saying, I thought you were saying that it's fine even if it is about her appearance. Yeah, I mean, it was fine last year when Hasan Minhaj made fun of Trump's appearance. So why is it not fine when Michelle Wolf does the same thing with, you know? I would give you the answer to that.

Really, you're going to misinterpret where I come out on this issue, but I'm just trying to be like a law school professor. My answer would be that there's something human in all of us which knows what somebody this is the bullies, which knows what somebody, this is the bully's, not Michelle,

but Trump, this is the bully's talent, that they know who's vulnerable and what will really hurt. And when you go after somebody's makeup, I think, you know, yeah, that's their makeup, or if you go after... She said her makeup was perfect. No, I'm saying... Alright, now you're just being dishonest. No, she did, that's what she said.

She said a perfect smoky eye because she said she was using burnt lies to put it on. That was funny. Yeah, it was funny. If you go after somebody's makeup, but if you go after somebody for being fat and ugly, most humans understand that's going to really leave a mark.

And most people can understand it between somebody who's handsome and everybody liked and probably never and can take it. And most people can see somebody who's probably and everybody liked him and probably never, and can take it. And most people can see someone who's probably been bullied before and has been hurt by these kind of remarks throughout their whole life. And it's astonishing to me that people are pretending

or have a very low emotional IQ that, oh no, you can make fun of this one, so therefore you can make fun of anybody about anything. And they're a public figure. Michelle said it wasn't about her appearance. I'm not going to disagree, but what's astounding to me is that people are saying

even if it was about her appearance, Trump made fun of somebody's appearance, so say whatever you want about her. You can call her ugly in front of a room full of people, point at her, and hope that a thousand people laugh along with you at how ugly she is. And that's somehow okay because you hate Trump. That's astounding to me.

I'm not saying it's okay because I hate Trump. That's exactly what you're saying. No, the thing that I take issue... Then why are you pointing to what Trump said about people? I said what Hasan Minhaj said about Trump.

No, you said about Trump. No, no, no. I said what Hasan Minhaj said. Okay. But my issue is... I would remind Noam to keep it friendly. See, no, no, no.

It's fine. Let's just talk about the facts. I think there's really good arguments for Michelle's favor. Really good arguments you can make. Right. But not by changing, pretending what happened didn't happen. But see, okay, my issue is with the assumption that Sarah Huckabee

Sanders is vulnerable. She's one of the most powerful people in the world. She's at the top of her game. She's like an impressive, respectable person. It's okay, I think, to knock her down a couple pegs. They made fun of Michelle Obama. It was horrible. She's at the top of her game. She's like an impressive, respectable person. It's okay, I think, to knock her down a couple pegs. They made fun of Michelle Obama. It was horrible. She was a public figure.

Who made fun of Michelle Obama? They made fun of her appearance. It was horrible. People on the right tried to forgive it, too, because they hated Obama. It's the same thing. It's disgusting, if you ask me. People need to stop this dressing up their hatred as righteousness. You think it's okay? Say, I think it's okay. But don't pick and

choose. They made fun of Michelle Obama in the worst way and they should have been ashamed of themselves. Her looks, her looks, her fat ass, whatever they wanted to say about her. It was never okay. You never thought it was okay. Come on now. Well, I would need to see which exact situation you were talking about to compare it. Like if it was okay. Come on now. Well, I would need to see which exact situation you were talking about to compare it. Like if it was a comedian at a correspondence center who said something and it was something. But I'm losing the thread in the debate because I

think I agree with both of you. I agree with Noam that people need to stop dressing up hatred as righteousness. But at the same time, I feel like what Michelle did was contextually appropriate for the most part. If something was a touch off color, I mean, it doesn't necessarily substantiate all of the outrage. I mean, people every now and then...

I agree with that. I just don't... No, you're 100% right. Listen, it's very easy to excuse all of it if you just want to pretend it didn't happen. Of course, of course, of course. Yeah, it's the amount of outrage that it got compared to other similar comments

that have been between men that I think is... Cathcart and Klein, any thoughts? No. Okay. Tom and I, I think it was last summer, went to a conference about philosophy and humor at Bucknell. And the kind of key word there,

there were a lot of people talking very boringly and intellectually about humor. And the key word was good humor is transgressive. And the hero was Lenny Bruce and Sarah Silverman. And people who

really... Good for her to dance, by the way, but go ahead. Sarah Silverman. Oh, I think she's fabulous. What does transgressive mean exactly? I think it's when a man dresses like a woman. That's transgressive. What does transgressive mean, Tom? Transgressive. Transgressive. You know, over the top, you know, unfair.

Offensive, I think. Offensive, yeah, that's the word. I think offensive. And the word implies that it crosses a line. Involving a violation of accepted or imposed boundaries. Thank you. Over the line, yes. It crosses a line.

And I'll tell you, I mean, I'm old enough. I remember when Lenny Bruce came on the scene. Everybody was saying, wow, he goes out of this thing. And he did a famous thing. He was doing stand-up, I think, in New York, in Greenwich Village. Yeah, right across the street at the Gaslight. And I've forgotten who. Some big black basketball player was there.

Oh, that narrows it down. Big and black. Llewell Cinder, Will Chamberlain. I think it was Will Chamberlain. Will Chamberlain. And he was smoking And Bruce reached for the cigarette And he said oh he nigger lipped it

Oh yes Sounds like Dan And I didn't think it was funny No it's not funny I thought it was wrong But I'm a little suburban guy Wasn't he going somewhere with that? That was the whole point?

The whole point was to be transgressive. Because I remember the whole bit. That was certainly transgressive, but I remember the whole thing about the transgression, contextually, was that he was using language in a way that if he said it enough, it devalued the meaning. So the word nigger and the word, you know,

whatever the word was, he would say it over and over again in the context of the show, and that devalued the sting. And so the overall point that he was making was larger contextually. What I don't like about that right now is that the president is degrading all discourse in that way. Oh, yes. But you say that good humor is transgressive, but yet you feel that there is a line that

he draws. Good humor is transgressive, but yet you feel that there is a line that they cross. Well, look, one issue that I think would be worth writing about is that, is there any difference between a Comedy Central roast, and by the way, even the roasts over the years, I remember the roasts, you know, in the Dean Martin time, they were funny, very funny, but they didn't quite cross the line. They weren't as transgressive as they are now. I bet you they hurt people's feelings when they went home. Yeah, even then.

But now, if you've seen a Comedy Central, but anyway, this is the White House Correspondents Dinner, and it's kind of like a ceasefire affair. I told Dan, it's like Tom and Jerry clock out, and it's a White House thing. Are they supposed to have no boundaries, just like a Comedy Central roast? Is there, I mean... Yeah, that's kind of the tradition. No, that's not the tradition. Are they supposed to have no boundaries, just like a Comedy Central roast?

Yeah, that's kind of the tradition. No, that's not the tradition. Well, my dad's a journalist in New Jersey, and he goes to the Trenton Correspondents Dinner every year, and it's even worse than the White House one even is. But this is the White House. Right, but that's the reason why they have a comedian doing it, because everyone is supposed to be having fun together, like dropping their arms or whatever, and then they have a comedian come in and talk and do everything so that the reporters aren't the ones saying it.

Yeah, but 20 years ago, no one would have, and Michelle's not the first one, would have spoken this way at a White House function. Is this more provocateur-ish than what Colbert did a few years ago? Right. What Seth Meyers did? I don't know what Colbert did. Well, I don't watch all of them, but I saw Michelle Wolfe.

That's why you asked me. No, I'm asking because I think she's watched some of them. And so I don't remember this way. I remember the other ones I've seen clips of being also very edgy. Yeah, I mean, Norm MacDonald's was very edgy. I think people got very offended by that. I didn't see the previous ones,

but you mentioned that Hasan Minhaj made fun of Trump's looks. But is there sort of a that Hassan Minaj made fun of Trump's looks. But is there sort of a red line in comedy about making fun of women's looks? You know, I mean, it's one thing to make fun of a man's looks, you know, because we know that even if a man is ugly, it's going to be all right. I am so relieved. Well, you've got the gift of humor and you have a bestseller. Maybe you've got a few dollars. But a woman, unfortunately—

I'm only missing one thing about getting laid. What's that? A pocket full of my agonist. But, you know, what about making fun of women's looks? You know, I did have a couple jokes where I referred to, you know, dating a fat woman and the elevator door opened. She said, going down. I said, we are if you get in anyway.

That's okay, because you didn't make fun of... But a lot of women... But a lot of women... In front of her. Just the notion that you're judging a woman, that you're making fun

of a woman's weight, even if it's a woman that's not mentioned, they look at me in horror. No, but also, but also, I think it's more than all of the male-female context. It's about

punching up. If you're punching up in the context of the joke, it's okay. What you're doing about the fat woman, I feel is mean-spirited, and I don't like that joke. Dan's joke? Going down if you are anyway? It's funny to us. I don't want people made fun of. I don't want to punch down at

people. Yeah, but if it were a guy, you might find it funny. A little bit funnier. Still, I don't want to punch down at people. Yeah, but if it were a guy, you might find it funny. A little bit funnier. Still, I don't want to punch down at people. But I think there's a huge difference between making fun of a man's looks and making fun of a woman's looks in general. I think that a person knows when they're drawing real

blood and when they're not. People who draw real blood, they need to think about what they're doing and whether it was deserved. Making fun of a woman's looks is by definition drawing blood because in this awful world that I did not create, and I want to underline, these are not my rules, but women are judged by their looks, and that's it. But is part of your point, Molly, that women should get over it? Not necessarily that women should get over it, but that it's, I mean, it's a nuanced issue. Like, Michelle was punching up,

and she was writing clever material that alluded to Sarah's looks, but it wasn't just pointing at her and saying, you're fat and ugly. You know what I mean? It was an interesting concept that she had clearly put thought into, and she was punching up.

So I think that that is what makes it, like, if that was a man sitting there, and she was punching up. So I think that that is what makes it, like if that was a man sitting there and she was saying similar things, no one would be outraged by that. If that were a man? If Sarah Huckabee Sanders was a man. You know, if it was Sean Spicer and she was like,

oh, I don't know if you're going to, you know, give us the news or separate us into softball teams and I loved you as whoever on whatever show. I never understand about the current, where I'm supposed to be, the woke view on women. So are you saying that we should treat women exactly like men? Because the whole kind of Me Too thing is kind of like

women are not supposed to be treated just like men. Right. Well, I'm not really representing the woke view right now. Let me ask you, it seems to me that there's a lot of picking and choosing going on depending on whether it's an anti-Trump angle. I agree completely. Yeah. And to me, that's why I think you're right. Men are probably a little less sensitive about their looks. That's what I said.

But we started like, can you make fun of anything? There are things that can be hurtful to a man too. Right. And I think it's... Sorry. Come on, Keith. There's a certain... Okay.

We need a mic. I'm going to let Keith take my mic for a minute. Go ahead... Sorry. Come on, Keith. There's a certain... Okay. We need a mic. I'm going to let Keith take my mic for a minute. Go ahead. Go ahead. Come on. There are jokes in lots of cultures where the object of the joke is somebody is stupid. And there are stock characters in a lot of cultures who are stupid. The wise men of Helm in Yiddish culture.

In Indian jokes, there are these people called Sardars. And they always take things so literally minded as to be stupid. And it makes you laugh. Dan, sit down, Dan! Okay, but the question is, is it fair to punch down at stupid people? Is it fair to punch down at stupid people? So Sadar, he's on the train going to Mumbai,

and it's a long trip, and so he wants to snooze. So he sees another guy in the train compartment and he says, I'll give you a hundred rupees if you wake me up when we get to Mumbai. And the other guy says, sure, a hundred rupees. Sadar goes to sleep. And the other guy says, geez, that's a lot of money just to wake him up. I happen to be a barber. I'll give him a little work while he's asleep. He takes his turban off. he shaves his hair off well he says well i'm here i'll take his beard off he takes his beard off puts his turban back down they come to mumbai he gets his hundred rupees the sardar goes home he goes into the bathroom to wash up he looks in the mirror and he says

that son of a bitch. I gave him 100 rupees and he woke up the wrong guy. I'm going to leave you alone. I just want to say that I will say this opinion. It's the correspondence organizer's fault. They hired Michelle and as she said, rightfully says,

didn't you research me before? That was the funniest thing she said. And that's why I think she's right. This is who she is, so they got what they ordered, you know? Well, it'll be interesting to see what this means for Michelle's career because her level of fame shot up like no comic's level of fame ever shot up in the history of comedy that fast. Keith Robinson is here. I asked

him to come. I asked him Stephen to ask. I don't know where the hell. I wanted to quickly talk about the other huge comedy news. There's two huge pieces of comedy news. Number one, Michelle Wolfe. Number two, Bill Cosby has been convicted

of rape, I guess. How many were you convicted of? Three counts. So I figured, let's have an African-American male to... You gotta have me explain

Cosby. You're black. You know a lot about rape. You also had an interesting point of view with regard to Cosby. Unless you were just kidding. You feel that Cosby was treated unfairly. Or maybe you were kidding about that. Not so much unfairly.

But you can be treated unfairly. And the whole thing, what he did, I think Cosby did some, you know, horrible things as far as that's concerned. But I think this one, Andrea Constant, I don't think this was a good one to get him on. Why? Why? Why?

Why? Because of how it went down. She, like, she stayed in contact with him after the thing happened. She got $3.5 million for nondisclosure, but she stayed in touch with Cosby continually. She continually stayed in contact with him. And I think this was pretty much a money grab. That's what I think on this one. I think it was a money grab. That's what I think on this one.

I think it was a money grab. And that's why I looked at it. And then he had a, one of the jurors was 22 years old. You're trying to, you can't get a 22-year-old to look over. That's a grown, this is a grown people thing. How old was she when it happened to her? How old was she? How old was Andrea?

That's her name, right? Andrea, yeah. How old was she when this happened in the first place? I don't know. Probably like in her 20s, right? In her 20s, yeah. So I feel like you could understand that if you're the same age, close to the age of the person when they were victimized.

What is it about her being 22 that you, or the juror being 22? No, the juror being 22, because you don't know enough. It's like he's 22 and they ask him, well, do you know, have you ever, he was lying, first of all. Did you even know Cosby? No, I don't know nothing about Cosby. I didn't know about anything about this case. What about me too? I don't know nothing about me too. You about anything about this case uh what about me too I don't know nothing about me too you're lying everybody knows about me stop lying so he's 22 that's the age you

know about me too you know I mean so he had no experience or anything about what life is you gotta have some life experience to deal with this case. And, you know, I just thought they picked out a little... Well, what is the minimum age for a juror? I think it's 18. But that's a separate question whether that should be... Is it 18? I believe it is. Maybe it's 21. Maybe. I don't know. But if you listen to this guy

talk, you know he's lying when you say, oh, I don't know. I never heard anything about Me Too. Yeah, he did. That's your thing. That's your thing. That's your generation. Well, maybe. Maybe, but. Can I ask you if you think his being black worked against him in the jurors' minds?

I think the Me Too movement was strong, and that definitely worked against him. That was the thing that got them. It was that. They can't let them go now. So now they got to get everybody. But this one was a weak case for me. And plus the prosecutor, they recommended don't do anything. But he was like, yo, I want something out of this thing.

Everybody was looking for something. But you do feel that Cosby is likely guilty of numerous rapes and assaults, whether or not you feel that this lady... Yeah, yeah. And how do you feel about him going to jail? He's 80. So you're trying to say... What's it to you?

You don't think I can handle myself in there? You think when I walk in They're going to say fresh meat? Yeah You'd be like Pops from Shawshank Redemption No You know

And then they celebrate it The women are like, yay, yay. What are you celebrating? That's nothing to celebrate. Yeah. Well, I think there's a really big sense of relief and happiness that people are finally being held accountable for things like this. And that's what people are celebrating.

They're not celebrating that it happened or that he's going to jail. They were actually celebrating Cosby going to jail. I think it would be great if Cosby escapes. That would just be a lot of fun. Well, if he had the private plane that they said he had. Well, first he got to get in that. Now we're going to build a tunnel. And, you know, but you can't see.

And we're going to go over the wall. What she said is she's putting everything under that movement. Like as far as women finally being heard. And, you know, women should be heard, but it should be fair, too. I think it's pretty fair. Oh, yeah? Yeah. I mean, people have been talking about Cosby doing this for like 20 years, you know?

He had a lot of time on the outside to just kind of. Keith's point is that he didn't feel that this particular, the one that they got him on. Right. That was not, you know, I can't speak to that because I haven't researched the case. Looking at the case, it wasn't a strong case. You know, somebody sexually assaults you, you're not going to stay in touch with them. Well, I mean, it's really complicated, you know What, staying in touch with somebody that's sexually assaulting you? I'm still in touch with Daniel Klein and Thomas Cathcart

We were never assaulted by you But I get what you mean, like it is You know, like when Osama Bin Laden got killed and people were cheering That's like a grim thing I get that, like when Osama bin Laden got killed and people were cheering. That's like a grim thing. I get that. Like when something bad happens to see people cheer. You know, it's nothing to cheer about because rape is bad and what happened is bad. It's an all-around bad situation.

We can go, I'm happy this is over with. Well, I don't know that you can make a statement that, you know, if somebody really is guilty, I don't know that it's necessarily inappropriate to applaud their downfall. It is inappropriate. It is. Why? Well, this show is so moral. There's so many moral issues being discussed here.

I find that interesting. Oh, good. It's a moral show, man. Can I ask another one? Yeah, go ahead. Hit it. This is, again, about my sexual naivete. Go ahead.

Apparently, according to... Just speak into the mic if you would. Okay. Apparently, Cosby, who I used to watch religiously with my daughter every week, you know. I mean, we used to eat in front of the TV to watch that show. He apparently gave drugs to the women that

made them semi-comatose. Correct. Whaludes. Who wants to fuck a comatose person? I don't get that one. Thomas Cathcart, could you speak to that? Yes, I'd be glad to. No, I have no idea. That is a weird part of the story, I think.

Well, they say that it's sort of like a necrophilia fetish. And it's like wanting to have control. It's like you want to have control over someone, so you drug them. Daniel Klein, as you know, and you remember the famous line from the Woody Allen movie, when the strange man defecated on my sister. That was from Crimes and Misdemeanors. And Woody said, human sexuality. I don't know what the exact line was, but, you know, just because, you know.

Should cause me. Yeah, go ahead. I'm trying to answer Mr. Klein's question about human sexuality is endless mystery. It's messy. Period. There's nothing you can think of that's so crazy that somebody hasn't masturbated to it. This reminds me of an old

politically incorrect joke that the French used to tell. And it was about a guy sees another guy screwing a corpse under a bridge on the Seine. And he says, how can you do that? Screw a corpse? And he says, this isn't

a corpse. She's an American. All right. I don't know if I get that. That was a French joke. I want to ask Noam a question. I want to ask you a question. Norm, I want to ask you this question. Go ahead. Should Cosby TV show be taken off?

Should all the stuff deal with Cosby? Now, finally a good question at the 11th hour. Should that be wiped out? Should his whole legacy be wiped out? Good question. I would like to live in a world where it wouldn't be. I think that the slippery slope of

making these razor thin judgments of judging the artist by his behavior and blah, blah, blah. I would like to live in a more culturally where the default position culturally was just whatever. Let anybody say what they want. So I would say no.

But in the end, it's a business decision how the ratings would be. But I hope that they wouldn't be all these dumb boycotts. But there's no ratings. The show is over. The Cosby show. No, you said should they still show it? Should they still show it? There's a ratings decision on the part of the network.

Well, with Noam, would you laugh just as heartily knowing what you know now about Dr. Cosby? And I will give him that respect. Would you laugh as heartily at the show now that you know that the man will commit an ofate with a damn of it? Let me answer very Jewish-like. I never thought that Mel Gibson should be out of the movies.

I never had a problem watching Mel Gibson movies. What's his name? Roald Dahl, who wrote Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, was a vehement, vehement anti-Semite. How about listening? You remember my parents said you can't listen to Wagner. Well, Wagner too, but Roald Dahl. You couldn't listen to Wagner because he was an anti-Semite.

It's the greatest music in the world. But, well, that's another... And I read my kids, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory or Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. I don't care that he's an anti-Semite. It bothers me he's an anti-Semite, but whatever, you know?

So you would still listen to his music? Who, Wagner? Yeah. Yeah, of Who, Wagner? Yeah. Yeah, of course, Wagner. You know, there was a whole controversy in the Israeli Philharmonic about whether to play Wagner, and in the end the musicians said they wanted to play Wagner because it's Wagner.

It's actually considered. And Barron Bond conducted. Barron Bond, who used to date my mother, which, you know, probably means shtook my mother. That Wagner in a poll of musicians was rated actually behind Beethoven as the all-time greatest, even above Mozart.

But Wagner is a heavyweight. Was Lewis Carroll banging that little girl in real life? I ask you. I don't know. Was it Alice in Wonderland? Alice in Wonderland. Alice in Wonderland.

And he used to hang around with that. He wrote that story for Alice Little that he was spending a lot of time with, and I gotta tell you. Wait, Keith didn't answer your own question. Do you have children? Yes. Are they young? No, my son is 24.

My daughter's 30. Wait a minute, you have a daughter? A daughter? Yeah. But my paternity suit. Like Gnome. I got a daughter like Gnome has his older son. Oh, it's like a stepdaughter. Yeah.

Okay, but so, I mean, there are little children in your life. Yeah. Would you allow them to watch Cosby? Yes. I think I would allow my granddaughter to watch Cosby. But would you say to your granddaughter, this nice man on the show, Dr. Huxtable, is not the same as the would you explain to her the situation? It's too complicated

for me, let alone her. Can I tell you guys something? This is very interesting. My daughter, my wife is Indian. So my daughter is slightly dark. But you know, not very dark. You just don't want to say it. She is slightly dark, but, you know, not very dark.

Gary, you just don't want to say it. Say it. She's slightly dark. No, I'm trying to describe her accurately. But she has adopted this. It doesn't rub off. You guys talking to Mike. She's adopted this thing that she's brown.

But anyway, really not the point. She came home. She says, Daddy, you're white. Do you treat people badly? And I'm like, what? Yeah. I said, why? She goes, I said, Daddy, you're white. Do you treat people badly? And I'm like, what? Yeah. I said, no, of course not. She goes, well, did you used to treat people badly?

Did you ever treat people badly? Are you a colonizer? And I wanted to go to that fucking school and just raise hell. I'm like, why are you teaching a first grader who cannot? She still believes in Santa Claus, for Christ's sake. She can't understand this stuff. She never conceived that her mommy and her daddy

were different in any meaningful way until they fed it to her, inculcated her in first grade by having to tell her that the most important thing she needs to know about is the difference in skin color. The white man ain't shit. I was so angry. You should write about that.

That's a good op-ed, by the way. Thank you. What do you think, Keith? You're black. Tell us what black people think, Keith. I agree with the teacher who told your daughter the white man ain't shit. So angry.

No, you're right with that, though. You're right. He lost me when he started talking about Macaulay Culkin. He said inculcated. Oh, gee. But yeah, no, no, no. We're obsessed with race, gender, everything. It's like just, we are cultural appropriation.

You can't wear an Asian dress to a prom anymore. Of course, if you're Asian, you can go to Juilliard and be 50% of the population to study Mozart, but you can't wear an Asian dress. And we are obsessed with rejecting exactly the perfect opposite of the melting pot culture we used to claim we wanted to be. And I don't see how you can separate that from the immigration issue,

meaning that personally, I really, really would not even consider immigration any issue at all if everybody was coming here to become part of the melting pot and become all Americans like my... But if everybody's supposed to come here and keep their ethnic heritage as the most important defining aspect of themselves. So much so that you raise hell if somebody dare wear any fashion or any music or anything

then this is a recipe for not having a country anymore, isn't it? You know how much of a liberal I am? I think they should be allowed to do that. Of course they're allowed to, but... I still welcome them. That's part of being a melting pot. Saying, I mean, I still welcome them. That's part of being a melting pot, saying, you know, I'm Danish,

and everybody should be Danish. I like that. I think that... I just don't. I think it's short-sighted. I think that the country was a success because we all wanted to be one people, e pluribus unum,

and the point where we're actually going to criticize people for adapting the things that we like about the cultures around us, we're going to come apart. Just like Yugoslavia, just like Canada can't even handle the French. I don't think there's any historical example of a nation which emphasizes differences, yet pulled together as one nation. I don't think it's psychologically possible. I worry about it. I just don't want nobody from shithole countries.

Such as Switzerland, Australia. Right, Dr. Klein, or Daniel Klein. Is it because Americans... I do answer to doctors. Actually, you should have some blood work soon. Is it because the... I do answer to doctors. Is it because... Actually, you should have some blood work soon. Is it because the American doesn't move during sex? That's why the American is the corpse?

That's the joke. I got it! Okay. That's the French stereotype of the American. It just took me a while. Molly, do you get it now? Of the American white girl. I thought that's what it was, but I figured it couldn't be possible.

This was a joke from before your mother was born. Oh, so she changed things. Yeah, right. The whole French stereotype has changed, as has the French stereotype of Americans changed. Yeah, that's too old a joke. You can't tell that anymore. Yeah, it doesn't work. It would work.

Substitute white woman, maybe, two black guys. Like, that's not a corp. That's a white bitch. Yeah, but then it's not my a white woman, maybe. Two black guys. That's not a corpse. That's a white bitch. But then it's not my joke to tell. Because, you know, white women did... I don't want to say anything, Dan, but have you noticed that the table is slowly leaving? Everybody is leaving this table?

I noticed one person leaving. We only have five mics. So people do leave. But Keith, I don't know. Now, why Keith left, I don't know. I guess he didn't want to talk about the... But Dove is back. Back in the game, baby. Back in the game.

You want to sit here? Sit here? Dove is here. His wife is here, by the way. My wife is very shy. Can you believe Dove got married? You guys don't know Dove. Yeah, yeah.

No, they can't believe it. Dove is the biggest poon hound. Such a hound. I mean... I know, but it would require... You've got to speak into the mic, Dr. Klein. You've got to speak into the mic.

The mic. The mic. I was saying congratulations. Yeah, there you go. Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm a big believer in marriage. Yeah. I am as well. Yeah, the mic. I was saying congratulations. There you go. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm a big believer in marriage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I am as well. Yeah, but Dr. Klein, Doug was banging chicks.

Like. I just hear about what other people do. But I'm saying he was at a level of just gorgeous women. I don't think that's nice to talk about in front of his wife. No, no, it's okay. No, we've talked about it. We've talked about it many times.

But what Dan's referring to is a lot of people that get caught up in this lifestyle and this kind of environment, and then it makes it difficult for them to transition over to a more traditional monogamous kind of life. Yes. And so that's what he's referring to. Now, she's not a corpse. She's Canadian. She's not an American corpse.

That was referencing a French joke from earlier. A fine Canadian person. They're nice people, generally. Molly, I feel Molly... We're working on a child. She's with a child right now.

Oh, my God. Really? Congratulations. You told me that I couldn't talk about it. I know, but I felt like it was okay. Because I didn't know where it would go. Congratulations. Yeah, yeah.

They spent so much money trying to create that child. We were on an IVF. If this child doesn't do the right thing, it'll be such a disappointment. They spent upwards of like 50 grand trying to conceive that child. Yeah, well, 40 grand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good fee. I'm over it. Yeah. And it's a girl. You know how I know? Karma! Karma, baby! Poetic

justice! You gotta speak into the mic. You gotta speak into the mic. The mic. The mic. They're in the mic. I'm just asking when she's due. I love ordinary middle class stuff like babies and marriage. I've always been that way. In October is the time. In October is the time.

Well, I'm an October baby. We're the best. Well, in that case, we're going to prolong things until we get out of your range. Molly, I'm sensing that you're a Libra. I got Libra. I'm feeling it. No, I'm not a Libra. I'm a Capricorn.

Nonsense. I don't hear that. That is pure nonsense. We didn't invite you here to lie to us. Yeah, we didn't invite you for the lies. Can I tell you that Tom and I are having a baby in October also? God bless you two. God bless you.

These are my favorite friends. Dove and I have been friends not quite 61 years. Long time,, too. God bless you. These are my favorite friends. Dove and I have been friends not quite 61 years. Long time, long time. But about 20, maybe 15. Yeah, it's been a good clip now. We have a new book coming out in October, and that's our baby. Oh, that's our baby. Oh, wow.

Hey, what is the new book about? Same old shit. It's explaining a lot of philosophers we haven't covered before. Wow. In the context of humor? But this time through cartoons. Mostly New Yorker cartoons. Oh, wow.

It's great. New Yorker and Punch, the British magazine Punch. Yes. Molly, we have to go soon. I just wanted to give you the chance to maybe plug. Steve is giving me the life, for God's sake. To give you a chance to maybe tell us about, promote something that you are working on or that you're doing.

I mean, I just did a show last night for my friend's book that just came out called Hey Ladies, which is really cool. You want to promote your friend's book? Yeah. What's it called, Molly? It's called Hey Ladies. Oh, cool. And it's speaking of marriage and babies and stuff.

It's sort of like spoof emails of girls who are planning engagement parties and stuff like that, and it's really funny. Oh, wow. So I've been involved with that for like a couple years, so just as like a performer, not writing it or anything. But, yeah, and then other than that, I have a few more stories coming out with performer, not writing it or anything. But yeah, and then other than that, I have a few more stories coming out with Elle over the next month or so.

Cool. Oh, great. Noam was a little rough on you, but I hope you had a good experience. Noam pulls no punches. I think he thought I was woker than I am. Well, anyway, we want to thank, you know, I forgot that Daniel Klein I think he thought I was woker than I am. Well, anyway, we want to thank, you know, I forgot that Daniel Klein and Thomas Cathcart.

Cathcart. Thomas Cathcart. It's an interesting sort of a name. I'd never heard of it before. Thomas Cathcart. Scottish, you base-born knave, you fool. I think Molly. Most of them, that sounds Scottish to me. No, Irish, actually.

Irish. Yeah. And Dub, we want to congratulate Dub on his upcoming baby girl. Upcoming baby. According to Dan, it's a girl we don't know yet. We're only 15 weeks into this process, so we don't know. 15 weeks? Is the sex differentiated at 15 weeks?

Well, I'm sure it's differentiated, but they can't see it through. I mean, yeah, if you do a, what's it called? An ultrasound. You don't see it immediately. Theoretically, you could test for it, but they don't see it through. I mean, yet, if you do a, what's it called, an ultrasound, you don't see it immediately. Theoretically, you could test for it, but they don't see it. We all start off as women, I think, is how it works. Not me, not me. Maybe you. I'm all men, baby.

It was right from the beginning. Okay. Well, thank you, everybody, for coming, and we'll see you next time on The Comedy Show. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Bye-bye. next time on the thank you sir thank you guys thanks for having us