The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Tom Shillue and Baratunde Thurston

Episode Date: August 24, 2018

Tom Shillue and Baratunde Thurston discuss the issues of the day, including, DNA, Trump, & Italian actress Asia Argento.

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar show here on Sirius XM Channel 99, Comedy Channel. We're here at the back table of The Comedy Cellar. My name is Noam Dorman. I'm the owner of The Comedy Cellar. I'm here with Mr. Dan Natterman. How do you do, Noam? Okay. By the way, Noam, Steve Fabricant said he might be interested in booking for us. I don't know if...

Really? What is it? Talk about it on the show. Oh, I thought we were at... You know, that was the whole point. We're like an open book. We might need a new booker, but can we introduce a guest? Would you like to introduce a guest?

I'll introduce a guest. We have with us Tom Shalhoub, one of the few conservative voices in stand-up comedy. Wow. I think. Is that fair to say? Yeah, I'd say that. But are you doing a lot of stand-up these days? Yeah. I was just in Detroit with Gaffigan last weekend. Were you opening for Gaffigan?

Yes, yes. And Marina. It was Shalhoub, Marina, and Gaffigan. What a combo. Wow. Marina Franklin. Yes. You were both opening for Gaffigan? Yeah. There was double openers because it was one of these shows with the big indoor-outdoor, you know, the DTE Center. You know, being an opening act is such a cushy gig.

You only do like 15, 20 minutes. Usually you get paid well. Sometimes you get to fly around in private jets. And yet nobody asked little old me to open for them. I totally wish somebody would. Nobody? I don't think I'd be right for Gaffigan. You opened for Gad, Gad Amala.

Yes, yes, I did. That is correct. We also have Mr. Baratunde Thurston with us. Hey, hey, hey. How do you do, Baratunde? I do very well, thank you very much. We haven't seen you around here in a little while. Many moons.

Now, Baritone, you used to write... Many presidential scandals have happened since I was a kid. Oh, let's get into it. You used to write for The Daily Show, right? I used to produce for The Daily Show, occasionally write a few things. I'm now the host of a new podcast called Spit. Spit? Spit podcast.

It's not about hip-hop. It's about DNA. Oh. It's about everything. Oh, yeah. Wow. And, yeah, I still... You're for orhop. It's about DNA. It's about everything. You're for or against? I'm for DNA. I'm definitely pro-genetic.

I'm doing gigs and writing freelance and traveling about. That's a very controversial topic, DNA. Everything's controversial. I guess almost no matter how you approach it, it could be controversial. Certainly some areas of it are more controversial. Let's talk about Asia Argento, then we'll talk about DNA, then we'll talk about Trump. Oh, yeah. You want to start off with Asia Argento?

Yeah, start with it. I believe it's Asia. Asia? Oh, okay. Isn't she Italian or something? Yes. That would make sense. Okay.

I'm sorry. Now, how do you pronounce the band that sang Heat of the Moment? I don't even know what you're saying right now. Asia. That's Asia, yeah. I would, but that was Asia. You don't remember that band, Baritone Day? No, I do not.

Of all the songs that choose those. I'm learning. I'm getting new information right now. That was like an 80s super group, I think. They were a super group. I had a different 80s. Were you around in the 80s? I was.

I was born in 77. They blessed the rains down in Africa. No, that's Toto. Oh, sorry. I'm like, I know that song. But I don't know who did it. Heat of the Moment. Heat of the Moment, right?

Heat of the Moment. That was their biggest hit. They also had some other hits. That's so funny. Heat of the Moment was their biggest. And Don't Cry. So, Dan. Asia Argento, who was one of the leading figures in Me Too because she had accused Harvey Weinstein of, I believe, forcible cunnilingus.

I believe that was. Wow. Was that not what she had accused Harvey? I don't know. Or maybe outright intercourse, rape, whatever. But in any case, she was one of Harvey's accusers. And now she herself has been accused of having sex with a 17-year-old in California, wherein it is illegal to have sex with a 17-year-old.

I would have thought California would have a lower age of consent. Not only that, he claims that he was somehow roped into it. Well, I think he said that she gave him some drinks. And then he paid her. Allegedly, her boyfriend paid off this young actor. His name was, what was his name? Something Bennett. Rob Bennett?

Whatever. Paid like $300,000 as a payoff. But this has all come out. And obviously, she's being accused of hypocrisy. Jimmy Bennett. Jimmy Bennett. He's an actor. He's done a lot of shit. He was a child actor, and they had done a lot of work together.

Yes, that's correct. Perversely, she played his mother in films where she actually sort of pimped him out to get raped as a little boy. In the movie. In the movie. In the movie version. But they had an on-camera mother-son relationship, and she often referred to him as her son in real life. He called her mom in real life. Let's start at the far left of this spectrum here,

and you give us your, because I know you bleed for this movement. Tell me how you feel about Acia Argento. So I feel like what happens is that where there's power, there's corruption. And Acia, Ms. Argento in this case, had power over this other person. And she exploited him. And she abused that power. And she behaved terribly. She took advantage of a young person.

What was her power over him? She was older, richer, and he looked up to her. She was senior in the industry that he wanted to be and was a part of for a long time. By the way, are we 100% clear

that this sexual encounter took place or is this still alleged? Alleged. I think everything should... This whole podcast is alleged. I don't know if this is happening. We're allegedly talking to each other right now. So the power is

that she could make or break his career in some way? Yeah. And that she had a psychological hold on him and a relationship with him that was not a non-sexual one and she put it into a sexual space

based on the documents that have come out. Based on the fact that she paid him. Well, one, I think she should I think she needs to be held accountable for those actions in whatever legal ways are possible. And I don't know if statute of limitations are still in place.

Like she committed a crime, like in the state of California, technically that's a crime and people who break laws should be held accountable for it. Unless they're here illegally as immigrants. Go ahead. I'm sorry, what was that? I said, unless they're here illegally as immigrants. Just, just, you know, I'm not, don't, don't, don't take, don't take from that that I'm any positioned by illegal immigrants

I'm just saying it's funny to hear you say it you did the crime I think from the White House on down we should employ that standard but I think she is someone who abused her power and should not be exception shouldn't be made for her

I think it's done she paid him the money so so that's over. I think in this case, they did a... It looks like there was a contract, right? Lawyers were involved? Yeah, but you cannot contract away criminal liability if the state wants to prosecute you, which I don't know that they do. But he's not gonna

because he signed a thing, so he's silent now, right? Yeah, but the state could still decide that this woman committed a crime. Okay. Well, yeah, they can go after her, but I don't think they should. In my estimation, there are... I know how no one feels. No, there are deeper issues

at play here. One issue is something that we talked about last week, which is that it just seems to me that the more somebody wears their do-gooderness on their sleeve, the less you should trust them. We talked about it last week in terms of priests.

I'm going down then. Maybe. I mean, like the hypocrisy is right, but I have a prediction. And this is the second thing. I predict you're going to see an erosion now of what had been the kind of left-wing party line for a long time, that there was no difference between male sexuality and female sexuality. This Me Too movement, this is not the first time I've seen this. I kind of saw this with the Aziz thing.

There's no way to understand it without actually admitting that it's kind of different when you do it to a woman than to a man. And I believe that feminists, some feminists, when presented with this issue of either we're going to treat Asya Argento just like we treat some dude, or say, listen,

yeah, she has sex with this young dude, but it's not quite the same as having sex with a young, as an old man having sex with a young girl that he plies with liquor, that this dude is probably, less traumatized. When this dude is probably, when this dude

says, after that I was never able to work again because I was so traumatized because this woman gave me some drinks and then mounted me, I think you're going to see people finally saying, you know, I don't know if I really believe that dude. I'm not saying it's okay what she did, but I find it hard to believe. Like if a woman said that, a girl

said that, I'd be like, yeah, she probably felt raped. But I'm a dude, you're a dude, you're a dude. I can put myself in that situation. I don't think I would never be able to work again. First of all, he could have just, I suppose, I don't know what kind of... Can he answer whether he agrees or disagrees? I disagree.

Because a 17-year-old isn't a grown man. Yeah, but he's 17. He's not 11. No, but if anyone who feels like they've been taken advantage of feels like shit because of it, you feel like you don't, you're not where you are because of what you can do,

but because of what you can provide to somebody else, you feel like you are usable and disposable by people who have power over you. And I think you're, I think being a man in that case, because of the way society assumes that men always want sex and women never want, and it's this game we have to play with each other

where men have to convince. In my household, that happens to be the case. But I think that makes it harder for, I think in that narrow case, it makes it harder for male victims because people like you don't have sympathy. You're like, oh, he probably felt good about it. Don't exaggerate my position.

I'm not saying he wasn't bothered by it or anything like that. I'm saying that when he's... He was a teenager. He was 17, going on 18. When he says he was never able to work again because she gave him a few drinks and they had sex, no forcible rape or anything, just seduced him in some way. I do not

believe him when he says he could never work again. I just don't believe it. Do you believe it? I don't know if he's saying that. No, he did. Well, perhaps not or perhaps. I don't know. But I agree with you halfway. I agree with you. I agree with your premise. Yeah. But I disagree with the fact that it's going to change any minds. I don't think they're going to let go of this idea

that it's all the same. You know, I don't think anyone's going to reassess. I think you and I are going to keep go of this idea that it's all the same. You know, I don't think anyone's going to reassess. I think some people will. You and I are going to keep thinking what we think. But the thing is, I do think it's bad for a 33-year-old woman. She was 37. He was 17. Okay, 37.

I believe it's very bad for her to be sleeping with a 17-year-old, right? But it's way worse for a guy. Like, if a woman, if I had a son and a woman who was 37 seduced him and plied him with alcohol and did that, I would shame her on a blog

or I would speak out on a podcast about her. A guy with a 17-year-old daughter, I would murder him. I would murder the man. Murder. And not only is she... Because it's worse.

Because it's worse. How big a factor in your mind is the fact that she's a hot chick? I mean, if she were, you know, less attractive, would you be less sympathetic? Well, no, I don't think so. Well, because the traumatizing factor, I mean, you know, it's kind of a turn on Asia Argento. It's not a turn on if it's something you don't want. Well, I don't know that he didn't want it. For all we know, he was trying to shake her down for money.

She said he was. Like, did you see her text? I mean, today, because, you know, yesterday she came out and said nothing happened. Today, then, the TMZ had the photos and the text, and she was saying, oh, I'm going to move to the rainforest if they, you know. Did you see all those texts? No, I don't know what you're talking about. So the latest is pretty, you know, she said, yeah, of course I had sex with him. And she texted her friend and said, but he's shaking me down.

He wanted it. He seduced me. He's a shakedown artist. And if this all comes out, I'm just going to move to the rainforest. But, like, they had all the texts and everything. I feel bad for her. I would not feel bad for someone who has sex with a child as a 37-year-old grown-up adult. When I was a kid, I feel bad for anybody who's shaken down by someone who's lying and claiming that they're upset if they're not.

So, you know, the punishment is the crime. But when I was a kid, there was a whole genre of movies to turn on young teenage kids associated with this kind of thing. The young dude and the guy's mom wants to have sex with him. Absolutely. Weird science. Dear Penthouse, I never thought it would happen to me. My friend's mom. I mean, this is such.

Well, there's also daddy-daughter, you know. Yeah, there's a lot of movies out there that we don't want to define our morality. Popular songs and movies. I'm not buying that. There wasn't a whole genre of daddy-daughter sex movies appealing to teens in mainstream culture. But it appealed to teen boys, not to teen. What appeals to teen boys? The daddy-daughter scenario.

I've never seen the daddy-daughter scenario. I don't know what you're talking about. There's a lot of daddy-stepdaughter stuff going on online right now. I didn't say online. I said movies in the movie theaters, on cable TV. Not porn. I'm not talking about porn. I'm not talking about porn.

I'm talking about this was this. In other words, what I'm saying. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. This was always considered to be like. Like Mrs. I'm not talking about porn. I'm talking about this was this. In other words, what I'm saying. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right.

This was always considered to be like. Like Mrs. Robinson. Like Mrs. Robinson. Exactly. Yes. That's right. Actually, how old was he in Mrs. Robinson? A little bit. He was a college graduate.

A little bit. But that was bad what she did. Even then, what Mrs. Robinson did was not good. No. Right? You know? According to her daughter. Yeah.

She didn't like him much. He seemed fine with it. Well, he was, although, what do you think? Do you think that, what was his name? Dustin Hoffman.

Ben. Ben in the movie, right? Ben, Ben. You know, I don't think it fared well for them. You know, it ends with the marriage

and then, you know. No, it never, we have these stories of teachers, you know, the hot teacher who has sex with her male student.

It doesn't end well. You're a teacher. Your job is to educate them in the classroom, not in the bedroom. It is not what parents sign up for. It is not what kids sign up for. It is an abuse of power. Teachers are obviously different. They're not talking about a teacher.

Dean, we've invited our dear friend Dean Del Rey because we're discussing something that he might have insight on. I don't know. The Asia Argento scandal. Oh, yeah. I know you're familiar with what's happening. 30-some-odd-year-old woman seduces a 17-year-old boy that most of us would consider to be quite lucky. But Paparattunde has another take on the matter. Can I just be clear before you say that?

All I'm saying is that I don't think it's right what she did. If it's illegal, I guess. Number one. Number two, I wish it had happened to me when I was... But number three, I don't believe that he was so traumatized by this. I just can't believe it that he literally couldn't work again. Why is that so hard

for you to believe? Because you said if a woman said that, it seems like you'd absolutely believe her. Like if it was a teenage girl and a 37-year-old man... I'm affected by something. I've known girls who had sex with their high school teachers, whatever. And what I've noticed, I've known two girls like this,

they had tremendous resentment to these men for the rest of their lives because they felt they had been violated. And I don't want to sound like a Neanderthal, but it seems to me the concept of feeling violated is very feminine, very associated with women. I don't know that any man that I've ever spoken to who felt that they had to say

yes to a girl they didn't want to sleep with, or all these kinds of various sexual situations. Guys do say yes, or a girl grabs his dick under the table and he's like, he didn't want her to, whatever it is. I've never heard them describe me as I was violated, I'm traumatized. It just rolls off a dude's back differently.

That's an empirical observation, anecdotal as it were, that I've had in life. And I live in the same world as you and I've heard far fewer complaints. But I think that's because we've trained ourselves. We're a table full of men. And from our locker rooms, from our sports experiences, from mass media, from our fathers, from our older brothers and their friends, to not express that sense of violation or shame.

That's partly how the Catholic Church got away with raping children for decades with no consequence. Because it was a lot of little boys who didn't know how to speak about it because they trusted these men in their lives. Some of them were older kids too. And some of them were teenagers. And so men, you know, we think about sex and abuse as like something that's a female issue, a women's rights issue, something where men are the aggressors and women are the victims. But I think anybody who's powerless can be a victim. And I think men are so useful.

Let me go out really out of the limb here. There's no way a 17-year-old dude is in a hotel room drinking, which she's hot, right? Asya Ojanto? Yes. There's no way the two of them are in a hotel room drinking where he's not saying, damn, I want to bang her right now. There's no way. He's 17. Come on. He's alone in a room

with a hot chick. That man may not be. I hope, I really hope she doesn't want to sleep with me. I really hope she doesn't suck my dick and my roommate for life. It's not, it's not. Flip it around and listen to yourself

say that about a teenage girl. That's my point. Like, but I think, I think you should be disgusted by both interpretations, right?

I think you would not, you would not accept saying that about a girl. You've hit my point. Why do you say that about a boy? This is my point. I'm not trying to judge it.

I'm not trying to say whether it's good or bad. I'm just trying to describe the human animal as I believe it actually is, not as it should be, as I wish it were. I'm telling you, any time at 17 I was alone with any female, even if she was not very good looking, I was just hoping she'd touch my dick. That is what it means to be a 17-year-old dude. Okay, go ahead. Dean Tal old Dude Go ahead Welcome to our Calm conversation about non-controversial topics Every time I'm on this podcast It's about some kind of

Controversial That's all they do I mean you know We could talk about something that everybody agrees on But that might be less interesting Yeah absolutely I mean, you know. Well, we could talk about something that everybody agrees on, but that might be less interesting. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, you know, I don't know.

Like, she said she didn't do it, right? No, now she's admitted to it. I think she's. Oh, she did? Like our president. The new expose. You know Tom? Tom Shalhoub?

In any case, whether she admitted it or not, there's reason to believe it well could have gone down. And it's worth discussing in either case. Yeah. I mean, she paid him, right? She paid him off. Yeah, she paid him. So they did have the contract. And in terms of that issue, it was settled by a payment.

Right. Didn't he ask for like $2.1 million? Yeah. And then they brought him down. Right. Brought him down. Negotiation. $380,000.

Can we, Baratunde, can we maybe acknowledge that there might be levels of violations so that even if we were to say that he felt violated, might it be fair to say that a woman in that situation, it would have been worse? Is it possible that you might

acknowledge that there are degrees? And also because you brought up power. The fact is, physically, he's stronger than she is, I would imagine. Oh, man. So, a couple things. That's a good point.

Women do feel the fear of physical safety, the fear of being overwhelmed, all that stuff. And a man doesn't feel that fear of physical safety, the fear of being overwhelmed, all that stuff. And a man doesn't feel that fear and that's a deep fear. I mean, that's very serious. To do anything because you were afraid that somebody might overwhelm

you physically. Or beat you. It's quite more traumatic than doing it because, you know, whatever. You heard, for example, with the Louis encounter in the hotel room, people were saying that these women, sometimes they're afraid that if they say no, they'll be physically assaulted. And so that plays into it, but I don't think

that would play into this encounter. I mean, Azi Argento is a woman. She's a thin woman. You know, she has no physical power over... She looks pretty strong. She's fit. Very fit. Fit, maybe, but I don't think it's quite the same in terms of physical power differences. I like generalizations.

I don't love consistency, and I love generalizations. And I think Noam is right in that men and women are different, and I think we have to recognize that. So, yes, there are men who are traumatized by sexual experiences, there are men who are like in the weird science way, it's like yeah, hot for teacher. And there are more men who are the hot for teacher you know, men are more are less traumatized by these sexual experiences

generally than women. There are some men who are more, obviously, there's 17 year old women who may have had encounters with Harvey Weinstein and saw it as transactional and it worked out well for them. You know what I'm saying? In some cases, there are, there's all sorts of people in all sorts of ways. But in general,

women are more traumatized by sexual experiences, whether it's between ages or whatever. And I think it's patently obvious. And so that's where I start. With that, you know, I'm not willing to say, look, oh, it's all just other things.

Like, I don't think it's all socialization or the way we've dealt with it. I think that there is, you know, there's a thing called nature and there's, you know, sex is predatory. Males, I mean, look at the world. But it's done right, yeah. Well, exactly.

I'm kidding, I'm kidding. That, you know, that it is, that is why I think men need to be policed in these situations. Policed being the generic word for it. Policed more in this... Men need to police themselves more in this area than women do because women are more vulnerable to this stuff. And yes, I do know women who were involved with their teachers

and they're scarred for life. Now, some guys might be scarred for life with their hot for teacher thing, but fewer. Maybe this is my own bigotry and chauvinism. I have trouble understanding a dude being scarred for life by a sexual experience that wasn't in some way coerced

or traumatized. I can see it. Look, sex is very complicated and people have, you know. There's people out there, of course. I shouldn't say that. Dean Del Rey is leaving us to eat his salmon. Thank you for your contributions, Dean Del Rey. We certainly do appreciate his contributions. He's worried about saying something wrong. He's changed the trajectory of our conversation.

You got a spot. Well, and don't get me wrong. I mean, I have a son and a daughter. If my son's... If an older woman slept with my son, gave him drinks, I'd be very annoyed. But if it happened to my daughter, I would really be worried.

Come on, murder. I want you to go to murder. I thought that was a good comment. If he was 17, if your son was 17, and we're talking about a 35-year-old

Victoria's Secret model, how ticked off would you really be? Very damn. Versus jealous. All right, and speaking of paying women off. I think it's a question at least worth asking.

You know, it might be that men can be equally as traumatized in these situations. I don't think it's settled, and I think it's a question worth asking, and I don't think it's an open and shut case. Well, let's look at, look, we've talked about this before. Look at, they're all offline now, but like Backpage and Craigslist, they were just like thousands of ads aimed at men for casual, anonymous sexual encounters with people they've never met before. Yeah.

Virtually none aimed at women. So we had one of the guys we fucked podcast girls on, Christina, and she's like, I broke up my boyfriend. I'm going to finally get a prostitute. I'm just like a dude. We picked out the prostitute online. I was going to pay $1,000 for it. She chickened out.

She never followed through on it. All that talk. Well, have you spoken with her? You just can't get a hold of her. Yeah, I've spoken with her. She's out next week, next week. But the point is, if we were buying a prostitute for Dan,

he'd be like, I have time tonight. This guy had rock hard abs. He looked like Antonio Manderis. dude for Dan, he'd be like, I have time tonight. Like, it'd be like... I mean, we all remember, this guy had rock-hard abs. He looked like Antonio Manderas. And she was the one who said, I want you two guys to buy me a prostitute and I'll come on the show and talk about it. When the rubber hit the road, we still have to have her on the show.

Pun intended. She didn't go through with it. And there is just those personal ads and prostitution ads and online porn and all that tell you that there is some difference between men and women. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

No, I acknowledge there's a difference between men and women. Now, speaking of paying people off. Well, this might be a good way to segue into the Las Vegas room. He totally fucked up your segue. You had a segue. He does that. It's all right. But I had a segue

too. Yeah, but the problem was I was into mine twice. I love it. So go ahead. Well, yeah, the Las Vegas room, as you know, or you may not know, 17 is legal in Nevada. So Asia

should have gone there and taken it to show at the Comedy Cellar. It's very difficult making these setting a law at a certain age. It's a difficult task for anybody really. No, you just set the law. I think it's pretty

simple. I don't think it's like a hand-wringing exercise. It's difficult to explain it. It changes with time. Years ago, obviously, people got married very young. Little girls were kidnapped out of their possible futures.

I know you watch a lot of C-SPAN and stuff like that. Have you ever seen that debate going on in the state legislature? What's that? Maybe in Warren Moore's courthouse. My colleague from Westchester County seems to think that 16 is too young,

but have you seen the body on some of these girls? Jesus Christ, this is what Dan's... It's part of Dan's jokes. I don't even know what the law is. What's the law in Las Vegas? Nevada, I looked it up because I was doing...

It's never a good opener. I looked up the age of consent. I'll tell you why I looked it up because I was doing... You were going there. No, because I wanted to... It's never a good opener. I looked up the age of consent. I'll tell you why I looked it up first. I looked it up first because terrible sentence follows. You want to know why I looked it up? No, we want to go with what we have. Because I had a tweet that... Oh, for Twitter.

I had for an Instagram. I made a tweet that's from the account of... For Instagram, I made a tweet. No, there's of... Instagram, I made a tweet. No, there's an account, Travel Nevada, a Twitter account. And I like... I'm not very good with Photoshop, but I Photoshopped it to say, at Asia Argento, next time come here, it's 16 is legal.

Oh, okay. So I had to look it up. So joke research, got it. But joke research. Now, unfortunately... Like Pete Townsend and the child porn. Now, unfortunately, this particular... I hope you kept your receipts from that.

Instagram. So I put it on Instagram, but it didn't get that. I thought it was going to get a ton of likes, but it didn't. All right. Well, listen... But in any case... So... Now I lost my train of thought.

Well, we were talking about Vegas. You were talking about Vegas. No one was talking about... No, what did you say? Paying people off. No, he's making... You set a number on something.

Yeah. How many weeks trimesters for an abortion. How, you know, you have a baby in diapers. You can show that

at six o'clock in commercial. A little bit of and then at some point, no, this is porn. You can't. Yeah.

And these are and they're tough to set. And with the 17 thing, what we're trying to do, I suppose, is make a determination about the psychology

and the development of somebody at a particular age and then generalize. But the truth is, some 15-year-old girl could be more developed and more psychologically developed than some 19-year-old girl, yet the law would protect the 15-year-old girl, not the 19-year-old.

So it's not an exact... You have to set laws. But nevertheless, you wonder in any particular situation, especially when it comes to somebody 17, like, you know, was this really a naive young boy, or was this

kind of an sexual experience? He's in Hollywood, he's an actor, maybe he's been having a lot of sex already. Maybe this was... The other relevant, why this story blew up so much is because of Asia's activism. Because they're going in so hard on Harvey.

And him having paid off so many people. And it turns out she paid off someone too. That's a lot of money. It was less than $2.1 million, but $380,000. That's like multiple... That's like 10 That's a lot of money. It was less than $2.1 million, but $380,000, that's like multiple, that's like 10 people's salaries in some states.

Yeah, the hypocrisy is disturbing. Hypocrisy is the most disturbing element. The natural segue is. It never is. Hypocrisy doesn't bother me. If something's wrong, it's wrong, but the hypocrisy doesn't bother me. Okay. I think hypocrisy doesn't bother me. Okay.

I think hypocrisy is overrated as a thing. If you're somebody who preaches something good, if you say this is the way the world should be, that's good. I don't want to discourage people from saying you have to be... You can't negate her... I don't really know discourage people from saying you have to be, like, you can't negate her. I don't really know her activism or whatever. But say she was a pioneer for the Me Too movement.

If people believed in what she said, they should still keep believing in that. Absolutely. Because what people fall, that's the idea of, like, fallible people. If you set a standard high and you fail once, that's better than someone who sets their standard low. But it does speak to her credibility, that is to say, you're absolutely right, if Harvey raped her, that's wrong, and she should say it's wrong,

whether she was committed a sexual crime or not. But it does speak to her credibility, does it not? Aren't we inclined to believe her? This has nothing to do with hypocrisy, but aren't we inclined to believe Asia a little bit less, knowing that she herself is a little bit

has sexual issues. I don't believe her any less. You don't believe her any less? I never believed her. No, I'm kidding. I believed her then, and I still believe her, totally. I believe her in both cases. Didn't she date Harvey, though, after the alleged...

Oh, Dan, be careful now. And I'm not saying you can't rape somebody and then they date you after, but that does at least make you wonder... You know, it does make it take at least a half a step back. For me, what it does is it shows that... Because when she came to her own defense, she said... Who's the chef that she was?

Anthony Bourdain. The most famous chef in the world. Yes, I mean, who's the chef? She said, Anthony and I talked this over, and we agreed that the best thing to do was to make this go away. She was doing the same rationalization that we've heard from other powerful men, saying, look, I found it in the best interest to have this just go you know so it's interesting that to me it doesn't it doesn't

her credibility doesn't take a hit but it does show you that there are uh you know you can't discount that yeah maybe maybe some people should be allowed to enter into these agreements. I think that, you know, follow my thought here. In the old days, this is the new world of Me Too. We want everyone to be happy and be

successful or whatever. We want everyone to thrive, okay? But how do I say this? At least in the old days, I'm talking about a couple years ago, the women at least got a check. They got money. You know what I'm saying?

They can't get money anymore. Why can't they get money anymore? They can't. Why? No, no. I don't know what you're saying, Tom. I'm saying this. I do know what you're saying.

I don't agree with what you're saying. Women now, if a woman gets harassed now, she kind of can't go in and make a settlement now, right? Why can't she? Because that's like the whole system has changed. Yeah, but the settlements were acts of silencing that allowed abusers to keep abusing people. No, I agree with you.

That's why I'm being careful about the way I'm saying it. Yeah, so I don't think you're saying that, but I think it's worth clarifying that. I'm saying this, that the... I want to, in the future, I think that... I don't like the way it's being handled now. I don't like the Ronan Farrow way of justice.

I think you have to call the cops. You have to start the justice system. We're outside of a process. We're in a very much a tear down. Let's watch shit burn. There's definitely some glee. There's a lot of pent up, justifiable pent up anger.

But where this overlaps with your comments about hypocrisy for me is that we've interpreted through this current moment that people who make these payoffs are more horrible. It's like they had a whole apparatus protecting them. They put lawyers and agents and managers and publicists on the case. They smeared their victims.

They dragged their names through the mud and made them less credible. And she exhibited some of, from what we've recently learned, the same behaviors of a lot of the men who are... So it doesn't mean that horrible things didn't happen to her, but it does make her a problematic spokesperson for these same methods.

Barrett, I actually thought of something just now, and I want to actually say, there may not even be any hypocrisy here. Because if Harvey Weinstein abused her, then now, and I want to actually say, there may not even be any hypocrisy here. Because if Harvey Weinstein abused her, then Harvey Weinstein abused her. If she was being shaken

down by this kid, as she claims, then she didn't do anything wrong. Well, she did violate the statutory rape law. Alright, alright. But I don't think that's what's bothering us. If you found out that he was 17 years old and he wanted to have sex with her and she wanted to have sex with him, I...

Well, we wouldn't know about this. Right, but I'm saying if that's the way it happened, I don't think that would outrage you, even though the law... I mean, it's going to outrage you. Wait, wait, what state was it in? Oh, was it California? Yes, I'm outraged. Wait, no, but it was in the other state where the 60... Oh, no, that's fine.

Yeah, no, because this person presented himself as a victim of a violation. So what I'm saying is that we don't actually know enough to know whether she's being a hypocrite. It may just be too facile to jump to that conclusion. She may be the victim in both situations. No? That's possible. Of course it's possible.

And as far as hypocrisy, hypocrisy does play like Spitzer. Spitzer was going with prostitutes. Prostitution's illegal. All right, he shouldn't do that. He was also amping up the apprehension

of prostitutes and putting them in jail. Yeah. And that made it that incriminating to me. All these right-wing politicians who moralize heavily and violate

the laws that they're proposing, whether they're laws against gay people existing. It's kind of like left-wing writers going after people because they're white. But no, it may be hypocrisy.

Like Sarah Jung. It may be hypocrisy in that I don't know and I wasn't following necessarily that closely, but I think people were saying with regard to the Me Too movement that it wasn't just forcible rape that was the issue, it was power differentials.

And would Asia Argento have been charitable toward a 37-year-old or 35-year-old male big name that had sex with a 17-year-old woman? Or a 17-year-old? More interesting, would she be charitable

to a 17-year-old who had sex with a young man? So can we segue from the fact that she paid this boy off to Trump paying off his women now and get campaign finance? Yeah, great. I guess so. Well, unless you want to keep talking about this Me Too thing, I think we pretty much exhausted it.

So I had said on the radio show a couple weeks ago to everybody's mocking that I thought Trump was actually the victim here. Oh, poor baby. Because if I have consensual, and the only way you cannot come with me on this, I believe, if you feel that a man who has sex outside of marriage is an absolute villain and it's a serious thing and you can't ever forgive it. But what I'm

saying is given the world I live in where I know plenty of men who've had sex outside of marriage. He had sex outside of marriage. Consensual sex outside of marriage. That's his regular activity. Yeah, okay. Consensual. That's how he finds new marriages. I'm saying that's none of my business.

What's okay between Donald Trump and the woman that he has sex with, you know, I'm not that moralistic to start. There's plenty of other people I would judge before I get to that. My point is that it's consensual. They're not claiming it's not consensual. They're not 17. They're grown-ups. All of it. Then, when the time is right,

they come to him and say, listen, I'm going to go public with this story unless you give me a couple hundred thousand dollars. And I say that man who now is getting that extortion is the victim there. Absolutely, yeah. Why did they laugh at you

when you said that? Of course it's true. Because the idea of seeing Trump as a victim is tough. It takes a recalibration of the moment to see it that way. That's why we have podcasts, though. Yeah. So now you have this situation where, now Trump could have actually just paid her off. The deal's been going on since 2011. But he doesn't handle

anything himself. He's kind of a coward like that. So he goes to his lawyer. No, the lawyer could have facilitated that still and been a direct... It didn't have to be... So the lawyer somehow does it through some dumb thing that Cohen knew was illegal, didn't know was legal, or maybe it's not illegal. Nobody even is sure about this. No, it's definitely illegal. That's why he...

He literally admitted to crimes in a courthouse before a judge and pled guilty. You don't plead guilty to non-illegal acts. People do it all the time. No, it's illegal. On the news of the day, I literally don't understand how you're saying it's not illegal.

I'll tell you why. First of all, the main thing he was pled guilty was this taxi thing, $20 million bank fraud, who knows what he did. He pled guilty to eight things. And that has a serious jail sentence, and it's serious. It's $20 million. Now, nobody's going to jail for these kind of small campaign finance violations.

It wasn't small. The limit's $2,700. He contributed $150,000. That's orders of magnitude above the limit. It's small in terms of what people, what kind of things that happen. It changed who the president was, maybe. So it's actually quite big because we have kidnapped children under this president versus the other one. See, this is exactly why you can't talk to me.

Because I want to have like a rational, intelligent conversation. I'm being very rational and very intelligent, by the way. That's insulting, and I'm not insulting you. I don't mean to insult you, but I'm going to tell you why I think it's not rational. I'm not saying you're not rational and intelligent. I'm telling you why what you said I don't think is rational and intelligent. I don't know is put because i try to have a conversation like a legal hypothetical conversation

about an event that have been could be a hypothetical on a law school exam it could be any back any kind of factor have to judge and immediately we're talking to putting children in cages as if somehow somehow if he didn't put children in cages, this would be less illegal or more illegal.

It is totally, completely irrelevant to the discussion about whether this campaign finance behavior was legal, illegal, or to what extent is legal, whatever, to bring in the fact that he puts people in cages. Now, that's why I tell you it's irrational. Now, tell me where I'm wrong. Tell me how it is rational. I interpreted you saying it didn't matter. What doesn't matter? That this was a small act. Tell me how the cages

matters to this conversation. Because it's a consequence. His violation of election law. Are you actually listening? Are you just going to roll your eyes and pull your headphones off? I didn't pull my headphones off. Don't say that because I did not pull my headphones off. I didn't mean to.

I didn't mean to at all. I'm just pulling this out of my pocket because it's buzzing. You made it to me. It sounded like you're saying this was a small violation. It is a small violation. And why I disagree is one, it's a large, there's a limit. We just talked limits earlier. That's a rational answer.

The dollar limit is $2,700. It is not a bigger violation because he became president. These were two. Actually, it is because it affected, it possibly affected the outcome. The law as written does not say that this violation depends on whether he puts people in the cave. But I'm talking about in the real world of consequences. You're talking in a symbolic way. And I'm saying that's unhelpful to the conversation. And I actually believe it's a strategy

to deflect from the conversation. I've read a lot today about this, and apparently there's a lot of campaign violations similar to this. John Edwards had a kind of worse situation because it was an outside party that tried to buy off his lovers, and it was a hung jury and an acquittal. But the fact is the candidate can contribute an unlimited amount to his own campaign. You have a situation going on since 2011 trying to negotiate with this woman apparently and he could have just written her a check.

And it would not be illegal, and it would be fine. He's being extorted, and he goes to his lawyer, and this is the strategy that his lawyer and he concoct. Now, A, I have no idea whether his lawyer told him, you know, this is the illegal way to do it, and it's actually a much better way you could do it. I don't know if Cohen did that. If he didn't do that, Cohen's probably guilty of malpractice. And B,

I can only get so upset about the fact that he used his own money and did it in this technical way when he actually could have totally done it another way. It wasn't as if she couldn't have gotten the money. And three, it's not a campaign

expense anyway. That's where I disagree with you strongly. Okay, let's say he wants... The purpose was to protect his campaign. It's a campaign expense. Let's say he's... Well, let's say it the other way. Let's say he had actually paid her from the campaign.

Are you telling me that left-wing people would not be saying, he used the campaign for his personal funds? No, but, Noam, what I think you're missing... Answer my question. No, no, but when I'm missing, that's what you do. Don't skip over my point. What I'm saying is... God, you're impossible. Yeah, that's right. It's impossible.

Because I'm literally trying... No, it's not rigor. It's distraction. What's my question to you? Your question is, how is it a campaign expense? No, my question was... That's what we're talking about. My question was... Would left-wing people be as upset if he wrote the check himself versus Michael Cohen. No, I said if he see you weren't listening. I said if he had written the check to her from the campaign.

Yes. As supposedly he was supposed to. Yes. Wouldn't his opponents be now saying how dare he use campaign funds to pay off his mistress? And what I'm saying is that is not quite right because if he had done that then the world would have known because those payments are public because they're disclosed. And he did this to hide the payment. So if he used actual campaign funds to pay this off

we would know about it and the reason he did all these shenanigans was to protect his campaign so we wouldn't know that this is the type of person we were elected to the office. He could have just written her a check. He didn't have to were elected to the office. He could have just written her a check. He didn't have to do it through his campaign. He could have just written her a check. Well, that's why I think it is not a campaign expense.

I think he... No, it isn't. No. You're both wrong. He paid off someone, and he did it with his own money, with Donald Trump's money. Absolutely. So that's... I think that there's no...

The law disagrees with both of you. No, no. Please. First of all, A, I'm a lawyer. B, I'm reading lawyers all day. Campaign expenses are things like this. There are some lawyers who will take your side, but don't say the law disagrees with me as if there's not people at Harvard Law School who disagree with you.

I mean, it. So first of all, a man pled guilty in an actual federal court. He just made that up. There was no. No, he said, I'm going to. He wasn't being charged with that crime. He just pled guilty to it because it was part of his deal. So if I go into a court right now and I say I'm guilty of wearing a too thin T-shirt in an overcooled room, will they accept that?

No, you only accept people for actual crimes. So therefore Trump is guilty? I'm asking you a question. Is Trump guilty because somebody pled guilty to a crime? We don't know that yet. It's the first time you're saying you don't know that Trump is guilty. Go ahead. No one asked that question.

Do you think Trump is guilty? Of course I think he's guilty. This man has committed a crime his whole life. That's pretty obvious from his public records. He's never been held accountable for anything. I'm sure he's guilty of many crimes. This is one of them and a pretty small one. I find this... My head is reeling about this because I just don't see, listen,

okay, let's compare it to, let's compare it. Were you against Clinton's impeachment or for Clinton's impeachment? Oh, at the time, I was probably against it. And what about now? Now, I'm probably on the fence because I think Clinton, like, abused an under-young person with his power.

What would you like to see him impeached for? And he lied. I think a president lying to Congress is not something we should cotton to. Okay, so let's compare the two incidents. Clinton was accused of sexual harassment, credibly accused of sexual harassment. And to cover his ass, he lied under oath denying a sexual encounter, which, by the way, which was only allowed

to be asked because he had just signed into law a new rule of evidence, which allowed until then you weren't allowed to ask about prior sexual acts, and Clinton actually signed the law that allowed you to be, but in any event, he lied, he perjured himself in order to cover up and hopefully win a case where he was accused of sexual harassment.

And people at the time, people who represent the old version of your current point of view and politically felt, it's all about sex, this is outrageous, this is bullshit. And Clinton came out of it with his highest approval rating. That, to me, is so clearly much worse, much worse than a guy who pays off a woman who is not claiming that he did anything to her. She's simply extorting him. He's not lying under oath. He just didn't file some paperwork because in the same way if she said, listen, Donald, I know you have herpes, and I'm going to come public with it. And he's like, well, shit, I don't want you going public. Well, write me a check.

Well, that's a campaign violation. The only way you can write her a check for her telling the world you have herpes is to admit to the world you have herpes. You've got to file it. And he's like, you know, this is my private fucking life. If I whiten my teeth for the presidential, that's not a campaign contribution. It's my own money. And, you presidential, that's not a campaign contribution, it's my own money. And, you know, I'm not saying, I'm not, there's not a pristine case.

I'm saying it's nothing. It's nothing. And if it happened to Bill Clinton or Hillary, and I'll stop. Hillary. Bring up all the Clintons. We have a lot of time. Hillary, for instance, they paid Fusion GPS from the campaign. So did Ted Cruz's campaign. Whatever. from the campaign. So did Ted Cruz's campaign.

Whatever. From the campaign. And do you know if they reported as an election expense? I'll tell you the answer. They did not. They put it down as legal fees

because they paid a law firm who then hired Fusion GPS. It's not legal fees at all. And do you think that anybody who's complaining about this now if Hillary won the campaign would say I think Hillary should be impeached because she

put down Fusion GPS as legal fees actually I think most Republicans in Congress would that's right that's right that's right they would because that's how partisans are I'm saying you wouldn't be I am consistent I was against Clinton's impeachment and because I knew I was against Clinton's impeachment

I said well how the fuck can I now be how can I complain about this when Clinton did something worse? I'm able, it's like, so there's two choices in my mind. Either I have to reevaluate and say, you know what, I really think Clinton should have been impeached. Because, and then to tell you the truth, even still I might think this is nothing because there's no victim here. But I don't see you can have both. The last thing I will say on this, because both Tom and Noam are saying, well, it's a

line of thinking. I don't know if it's logic yet. We'll have to test it later. It sounds good. It sounds really good. But the idea that this isn't a campaign expense to me is undermined by the fact that this was done to protect his chances of being president. To hide information from the public.

He should have just said, publish it. It wouldn't have had any effect. The Hollywood tape didn't do anything. If the National Enquirer came out with a Stormy Daniels spread the month before the election, it would have had no effect. Maybe you're right. Maybe the reason is because he didn't want his wife to know.

Maybe that's not so campaign. In the reason is because he doesn't want his wife to know. Yeah. Well, that's why. Maybe that's not so campaign. In the John Edwards thing, the John Edwards was much worse than Trump, and he was, they had a hung jury on that. I would like to discuss briefly a statement that Noam made just a few minutes ago that I call into question. That statement being

I'm a lawyer. Now, I know that Noam has a legal education. Did I say I'm a lawyer? I went to law school. I went to law school. I took the bar. You perjured yourself. You took the bar.

I would say that's okay. He took the bar. He passed the bar. I also. Yeah, I didn't say I passed, but I did pass. I did pass. As it so happens. I absolutely did pass.

I also took and passed the bar. However, I do not claim that I am a lawyer for the following reason. Number one, I've pretty much forgotten everything I learned in law school. Number two, I don't pay my Bar Association dues. I am no longer legal to practice law before the New York State Bar. Thus, I am not a lawyer. My question, you know I'm dormant, is are you legally authorized to practice law? Yes.

You are. No, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. So would you agree that your statement, I am a lawyer, was... Did he say that? He said that. He did say that.

Would you agree that at a minimum... But I think he's established that he's not. But this is fun. He's like a senator from the South all of a sudden. A misleading statement at minimum... What the good... And write an honorable senator from Greenwich Village. misleading statement at minimum. What a good and right and honorable senator from Greenwich Village.

And outright fabrication on your part. Well, it's an interesting question, but you know, if I'm telling somebody across the table from me, listen, you know, vaccines are dangerous and nobody should take them. And the guy turns to me and says, listen, I'm a doctor. And then I find out later, well, actually

he's a doctor, but he just retired. I would not feel that he had lied to me. There's a certain expertise I'm representing to you of the law. But Dan is right as he is from time to time, which is that I am not a lawyer. I just play one

on a podcast. I didn't even question you. So that's how much I believe the word you said. Well, I thought you were trying to bully Barrett Sunday with your credential. Well, the credential is the same. I have a law school education. I'm able to read, and I spent actually the day

reading about it, reading the statute, reading various lawyers' opinions. Okay, I don't want to give away your age, but suffice it to say that your law degree does not date from, say, last week.

Is that fair to say, Mr. Duarte? Yes, it is. So, in any event, I think that, you know, if Trump colluded with Russia, then we have a very, very serious situation of a president who's compromised, probably more serious than Watergate could Could have been at its worst. And they need to find out. And they need to get rid of it and impeach him. However,

if they impeach, if they overturn an election because they found out that this money, that this man paid a woman who was extorting him with his own money in a way, this is just nuts to me. This is not going to be good for the country.

The country is going to go nuts. And people need to worry about this as Americans, too. And all to get what outcome? President Pence. This is what you guys are yearning for. President Pence. I mean, you know, people need to get a hold of themselves.

I'm against all these special counsels. I don't think they should exist. They shouldn't do it. Wow. Really? Yes, I'm absolutely, I think. Why are you absolutely against holding President Mr. Clinton? And I didn't mean to call you an intelligent baron. I would never. I want to hold a I didn't say he was unintelligent. He said that he was

irrational. I think they're anti-democratic and we've been using them. We investigate people to death and elections are democratic and I don't like these unelected bureaucrats and lawmen. I think the FBI

and the CIA shame has come upon them because of the way they behave. We can see people. It's all there in black and white. What's all there in black and white? There is all of the way they behave. We can see people. It's all there in black and white. What's all there in black and white? There is all of the... Take your pick of all of these people. James Comey and

I don't even know what... McCabe, Strzok. Yeah, all of these people. What have they all done that's so wrong? McCabe and Strzok got fired. They were using their offices. They were using... They talk about the rule of law for partisan purposes. It's not good.

It's not good. Can I interject real quick on the law enforcement front? So we have found out and we know for many, many thousands of facts about racist emails that police send, right? Trafficking and horrible, stereotypical racist memes. And then they go and, like, beat up some black kid, right? Trafficking and horrible stereotypical racist memes. And then they go and beat up some black kid. Do you think that all those convictions, all those arrests should be overturned because we've proven that those cops are...

And when you get them in there, I love when things are overturned. That's why all of these Manaforts should be... Everything's tainted because it came out of this. Like you said, the Russia investigation. They shouldn't be allowed to, I was talking today about witch hunts. If this is a witch hunt, we're finding a lot of witches.

And I said, no, there aren't any witches. Why are so many people as evicted felons? They're pointing a witch, because in the context of a witch hunt, a witch is someone who colluded with Russia. Because the investigation is about a Russia investigation, right? So all of these other charges that came out of that, they're not witches. Those are pointing at a witch and saying, you're a witch. It's like, oh, no, but I'm getting you on a speeding ticket, you know what I'm saying, or a different violation. There are no witches. So the idea it is it is a witch hunt when you it's a great description because you ostensibly have a

Prosecutor who has given power to investigate one thing and then they say oh and while you're at it You can do whatever the hell you want. It's horrible. We give prosecutors way too much power I don't like it and I don't like it in the Trump case and I don't like it in in any case I don't like it when you have a corrupt sheriff's office or anything. So I think prosecutors are out of control and they're especially out of control at the special counsel. I don't think it should exist. And I don't think that every president should be under perpetual investigation. That's what it's being like. Every president since Nixon, essentially, has been under investigation the entire time. Well, I agree with most of what you said,

and another argument against this impeachment over such a small matter is that this is, I hate to use this word, they're normalizing impeachment. Yeah. And you can be sure that the next time, it's like when Harry Reid got rid of the filibusters. He had such a good idea to him at the time,

and people warned him, but this is going to come back to haunt you, and it's going to be a tit-for-tat race to the most minor, more and more minor violations and using them to try to warrant some kind of impeachment. This is not good for the country. Impeachment should be for, I don't know how to write the standard, but it should be for violations of behavior. High crimes and misdemeanors.

Which make you, well, that's a very amorphous term. It has to be something which a reasonable person, or most people would say, you know what, this guy can't be president. Yeah. Probably, how about tweets? How about abuse of a public microphone? Like, I think, you know, here's, and I almost. Yeah, that sounds reasonable.

I actually. That sounds like a high crime and a misdemeanor. But I almost mean that seriously. In that, we have a president who, like, abuses his voice to literally spread lies and disinformation that moves markets, that bullies companies and individuals in a way that's super fucking irresponsible. With the market up, it seems to me, but go ahead. But sometimes down. He's tanked companies based on bullshit. They didn't tank, but you're right what you're saying.

He's manipulated. They bounced right back. They bounced right back. Some people probably made money that day. Sure they did. Some people you're right what you're saying. He's manipulating his thoughts. They bounce right back. They bounce right back. Some people probably made money that day. They sure did. Some people lost, absolutely.

And I think that level of unhinged behavior and unfit sort of behavior, it's approaching a category where if you're trying to think of reasons someone shouldn't be holding the office

of president, and for the record, I agree with you, he should not lose his job as president over a campaign violation. I'm absolutely with you on that. I agree with you. He should not lose his job as president over a campaign violation. I'm absolutely with you on that. I think the witch hunt language, I think the frenzy around it has witch hunt vibe.

I don't think Robert Mueller is conducting a witch hunt. I think he actually hasn't said shit. He's just doing his work. I will tell you the last word on the witch hunt. We will see what he has to say for himself when his report comes out. But all these attacks on him are premature. This is the thing about the witch hunt. Two things.

First of all, it's always worth remembering that things are not necessarily mutually exclusive, meaning Trump can be absolutely dirty on Russia, and the investigation could have sprung up in a totally corrupt way. Well, George Papadopoulos initiated the investigation, though. That wasn't corrupt. Well, we don't know. But there is a lot of evidence. There is a lot of evidence, more and more,

that the FBI looked at this with their thumbs on the scale in terms of their eagerness to... I go further than that. There is a chance... Oh, yeah, I'm absolutely impressed by the craziest of, you know, conspiracists on this issue, on the James Comey thing.

Because I think that it's more than hands on the scales. I think from the beginning, the Russia investigation was by design. And it's all there. All the texts we're seeing, it's not allusions to anything. I think McCabe and Comey and all these guys came up with this in order to make sure Trump didn't get elected. Can I just, I need to interject. I need to interject information.

There's real factual information. You're the way. Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. Thank you for that, Corey Lewandowski. Womp, womp. We got a special guest appearance on the Comedy Settler Radio. Corey Lewandowski just popped in to belittle an excellent, rational, intellectual point. So the FBI didn't come up

with this. Foreign intelligence allies of America presented George Papadopoulos bragging to an Australian diplomat about his access to compromising information on a political opponent and how they were going to use it.

That is what we've seen. They didn't exactly hop to it. They didn't call Papadopoul going to use it. We shall see. That is what we've seen. They didn't exactly hop to it. They didn't call Papadopoulos to interview him. If the FBI was so good and so scheming and so conspiratorial, why did we know before the election about Hillary's second opening of her email

case, which was nothing, and we never heard shit about a Russian investigation before the election? Why didn't they warn Trump that they thought there was a Russian spy in his campaign? Do you go around telling criminals about the crimes that they're committing? Why did they suspect... Dianne Feinstein, we just heard a couple weeks ago

that her CIA, whatever, they warned her about her limo driver might be a... Why would they assume that Trump is involved with Papadopoulos, who they know he never met until two weeks earlier? Why wouldn't they say, listen, you're a candidate,

we want to warn you of something. We have some intelligence here that this dude here might be leaking stuff to the Russians. So, first of all, and I'm not a law enforcement... Can I answer your question, though? Would they not have warned Hillary of the exact same fact pattern? No, I think it's pretty clear that they didn't.

I think she was surprised by Comey's letter and memo and public statements. No, would they not have warned her if they found out that somebody in her campaign might be talking to the Russians? I don't think so. I think the way— I think they would have. I think—God, let me answer the question. You're impossible. The way counterintelligence— He is challenging.

No question about it. The way counterintelligence investigators don't go tipping off possible people involved in counter-intelligence activities. Maybe you're right. That's not the way any – you go to any law office – not law office. You go to any police or law enforcement. Some of these guys were cheating. Law enforcement does not tip off people they're investigating. That's just – we would never have criminal investigations.

Detectives don't say, hey, I think you might have done a crime. Can I talk to you about it? I get your point. I get your point. I get your point. So this is the thing. I look at Tom and I say, you know, Tom, I think you're jumping the gun here

on this buying the full conspiracy thing. Well, no. I said that it's kind of a QAnon. Wait, wait. Are you down with QAnon? No, no, no. But then I look at you and I say, you act like these text messages from Struck

and all the stuff with McCabe and the fact that he got caught lying, the fact that they denied the dossier, that the FISA application didn't make it very, very clear. I know there was a footnote about whether... It did. You act like

none of this stuff happened. And I'm saying, as somebody trying to just find out what really went on here, I know that if I wanted to tell the court that this was paid for by the Hillary campaign, I would say it was paid for by the Hillary campaign. I wouldn't need a long footnote using circuitous language, and I wouldn't put in a footnote. I'd just say we have this dossier.

It was paid for by Fusion GPS through the opposing Kans campaign. That's the way you – anything less than that, to me, implies you were trying in some way to spin it in some way to be – because that's the way people communicate anything less than that To me implies You were trying in some way To spin it in some way That's the way people communicate, there's no reason for it And it's because it's not just the application For the FISA, because you know Because you saw their intentions

Because every night they went home and they texted each other And said, god damn How can we do more to make sure this guy doesn't get elected And let me amplify his point The Inspector General, who was an Obama appointee, looked at Strzok. This is not Fox News. This is Horowitz, Obama's appointee. What?

You don't say Fox News. He looked at these text messages from Strzok, and he said, I can't, this worries me. I can't be sure he didn't act on this. He took it very seriously. So I noticed that people on your side, they pretend this never happened. They're so sure of themselves. What about the Inspector General?

It's like they don't even bother themselves with it. They're literally like a dog who looks away from the danger. Similarly on the right. It's like, what about all the smoke? What about all the contacts with Russia? No, no, that doesn't matter. Yeah, there's a lot of smoke with Trump and Russia. You can't deny it.

Maybe he's guilty. Maybe he's not. Yeah. I think he's probably not. But I'm open-minded. I'm ready to see it. Everybody's so ready to jump to a conclusion. And the thing is, there is a mountain, Noam.

There is a mountain, mountain of correspondence and evidence of these guys guys of Comey McCabe struck etc why do you put Comey in there Bruce Orr uh because Comey was uh you know he was running a lot of these you know the the the famous uh you know when they had that tarmac uh meeting and then uh it's all in the text where Peter Strzok says, oh, well, don't worry. It's a foregone conclusion. We know that Comey's not going to go forward with Hillary. They knew all of this stuff before it happened. He agreed to call it a matter rather than an investigation. But I think Comey used bad judgment. I actually think he's very clean in terms of corruption.

Yeah, I don't think he was trying to destroy Donald Trump from the start. What was the last topic we wanted to talk about? We don't have time for that. What was the other one? I did bring up Vegas. How much do they pay you? No, no. I always like to hear the latest about

the comedy club in Vegas. Do you know that the comedy seller has a club in Vegas? I have just recently learned this. Okay. This is new information. I'm excited to bring it to my brain. I will say one thing.

I'm going to Vegas in September. Maybe I'll check it out. But before we get to the Comedy Club in Vegas, no one has one thing to add. And you're going to be surprised with this. Maybe not. I was very offended by something that I saw happening over and over in the news today. Okay. This week.

Al Sharpton, you know, he was talking about, he was talking about, first he was talking about bitch, talking about something, he didn't say the word bitch, and then, because I think it plays into it, then he was talking about Aretha, and he said R-E-S-P-I-C-T. Remember, did you hear that? No. He said I-C-T instead of E-C-T.

Yeah. And they are just ridiculing this guy, conservatives. Okay. And I'm like, it's a slip of ECT. Yeah. And they are just ridiculing this guy, conservatives. Okay. For his, and I'm like, it's a slip of the tongue. Yeah. Like,

it really disturbs me. It just, it's like, and that's why I was sensitive. I didn't want to, I would never call you stupid. No.

It's like, he was saying, bitch to me, like, I don't know if you heard the quote, you'll go back and listen. Like, he said something about bitch,

but bitch is B-I-T-C-H. Right. And R-E-S-P-I-C-T. I could see him. I believe that's one explanation. But I believe, now this may be racist, but I believe most black people

know how to sing along with respect, like the song. Yeah. I don't believe they didn't know how to spell respect. It's literally spelled out in the song. And these are the same people who were so offended

when Dan Quayle spelled potato wrong. Yeah, if it was Saturday night. And they were ridiculed and he's like, how could you, you know, he's just misspelling, you know,

like the same, people are such fucking partisans. How familiar are black people with the song Saturday Night by the Bay City Rollers? S-A-T-I-C.

That would be a little trickier. This black person is totally unfamiliar. But you know, that's from the 70s. It's terrible. There's so much news happening, and I miss that one.

Keep on dancing to your rock and roll. But I will say, Tom Shalhoub and I should keep talking over more liquor. Yeah, absolutely. What you're describing, Norman, where I think we find some common ground, is in sadness over our uncommon ground. Well put. And the rush to assume the worst, whether it's of Peter Strzok,

or of Al Sharpton, or of maybe even Devin Nunes. Who the fuck knows? I probably think he's mixed up in some shadiness. Or Donald Trump. Or Donald Trump. Now I think, you know, Trump is a complex character, because he's shown so much

that is, outside of him being president, just disgusting behavior. He has objectified women loudly and proudly. So has Dan. But he's not president, right? So I don't care as much. He doesn't have the power to influence children, thankfully. Dan is a joker.

So I think what you hear from me, and I'm sure what you hear from a lot of liberals, is, look, this guy should never have been elected because of, fuck Russia. Like, we didn't need Russia. I'm ashamed of the nation that allowed it to even be this close. Take it up with Hillary. She should have campaigned in the Midwest. And that's a part of it, right?

It's all of it. She was one of the most hated. It's not all of it, but it's a part of it. She could have gotten 40,000 votes if she showed up. But it's also like 53% of white women who voted for the guy. It's not just the failure of the

candidates. It's like a failure of Bill, Tolder, Hillary. You need to go to North Wisconsin. What's amazing to me is how divided we are as a nation when we have enough to eat and we're not at war. Yeah, it's only going to get worse with global warming. Thanks, Dan.

That's a nice way to close. Well, I have the answer to that, Dan. Hunger Games are coming. What are people so infuriated about? Maybe we can end on this. It could be Venezuela right now. I'll give everybody some homework. Why are people so infuriated?

I'm not sure they are, Dan. I think everything's great. I like what's happening in the world and I think everything's nice. Are people just infuriated because it's fun to be infuriated? No. Are they really infuriated? Harvard University study, June 28, 2018.

Is it about the coconut oil? There's something called prevalence-induced concept change. It causes people to redefine problems as they are reduced. It's kind of exactly what I've always said about how you look... You said that last week. About the microscope, when you kind of... I always say that, like... You ever notice Noam doesn't finish a sentence? He just goes...

I always say that sometimes I feel like we're looking through a microscope, but we don't realize that, like, in the 60s, we were looking through it at one time magnification, and as problems get solved, we turn up the magnification and we react to every new problem as if it's as big as and we don't realize but actually we're looking at it

at 400 times magnification as much as I'm sympathetic to pronouns being used properly and I am it's not blacks being hosed in Alabama yet we react to it with very much the same emotion

so it was a study very much the same emotion so there was a a study, very much the same emotion. So there was a study here in the Science Daily, and the summary is, as demonstrated in a series of new studies, researchers show that as the prevalence of a problem is reduced, humans are naturally inclined to redefine the problem itself. The result is that as a problem becomes smaller,

people's conceptualizations of that problem become larger, which can lead them to miss the fact that they've been solved. And this is, I think, exactly what Dan is saying. As things get better and better and better, as humans, it seems to me, we're programmed to see the worst. And not even acknowledge that things have actually gotten better. So I hear that, and I hear two things things have actually gotten better so so i i hear that and i hear two things we it's almost like what you said earlier we can do both right i think

that we should as people as media do better at talking about what we've done better yeah right so so the news isn't just like horror and tragedy and problems i also think we do have some real big challenges and like the climate change thing is a real one. And the income inequality thing is a real challenge. The number of people living in poverty. We're stretching as a nation. That's not the same thing as income inequality. No, they're related, but they're not the same thing.

I'm not sure they're related. I think mathematically they are related. But I think that's another conversation because it seems like we're trying to wrap up. But to try to explain anger, I think some people... Look, we didn't have Instagram in the 60s either, so we couldn't see how well off our neighbors had it. And the idea

of... In the 60s, they weren't as well off as they are now. No, because income inequality and wealth inequality was... We were actually more united as a class of people. So we have extremes more now. You're going to freak out. More billionaires and more in poverty and that creates tension and I think some of that anger is just

You know who made your argument almost as you made it? Charles Murray. Ah, okay. In that book Coming Apart. Is it Coming Apart? Oh yeah. I haven't read that book but it's in the long list. I've read about it. Read the first chapter. Are the poor poorer today, or are they only

poorer compared to the rich? Well, no. I think if you look at their buying power, we are... We have to wrap up. We tipped the scale in the 70s, where people are actually getting less money now when you adjust for inflation. That's a real thing. We're earning less money.

Let's end the podcast by opening up one of the biggest questions facing modern people. To be continued. It's a cliffhanger. Just quickly before we go. Inequality. Quick thing before we go.

Will the universe end in a big crunch? Okay, that legit is an LLM moment. This is so fucking spirited. Thank you for having me. I want to apologize for Barrett Sunday for anything that might have sounded like. No, you don't have to apologize for anything. For being uninformed.

No, I'm kidding. You big lawyer. I mean, if you like. I try to keep things light and understandable. That's why I thought AZR Argento was a good topic. It was a good topic. Noam likes to dig real deep into the political stuff. We exhausted

Asia Argento. We did. We did, but there might have been other topics. What else do you want to say? There might have been other... We can cut it up.

You got five minutes? No, no, it's okay. We did Me Too. We did Trump. We did so deep dove that I wonder how many of our listeners could follow that

because I could. All right. I have to read an Inspector General report now. I was not quiet for 20 minutes. That's how deep General report now. I was not quiet for 20 minutes. That's how deep this podcast was. I was not quiet for 20 minutes because I'm not feeling well. Though I'm not.

I was quiet because I had no fucking idea what anybody was talking about. Tom Shalhoub, you could follow. Could you not? Yes. We all follow. You did because you're a political creature. Noam's a political creature. Baratunde's a political creature.

I am less so. And I just wonder whether our listeners could necessarily follow some of the deep dive shit. I believe in you. I'm talking to you. This is Baratunde. I believe in you. I believe in you. You do you.

I think Dan has a point. We can ask Lou to cut it a little bit short. We can cut out some of Baratunde's parts. I don't know. And on a related note, listeners, please send, what's the email for the listeners? Podcast at ComedyCellar.com Podcast at ComedyCellar.com Let us know what

kinds of conversations you prefer to hear, what kind of conversations you less prefer to hear. Tom, by the way, I read Tom Shalhoub's book and it's fantastic. Mean Death for a Better America, thank you. It's on my night table to this day. Congratulations on finishing a book. That is huge in and of itself, man.

Who published your book? It is Day Street Books, which is a division of, I guess there's like three different things. William Morrow. Does that even matter anymore to have a publisher? Or you might as well just self-publish at this point. It matters. It does matter. It's good. They were things. William Morrow. Does that even matter anymore to have a publisher? Or you might as well just self-publish at this point. It matters. It does matter. It was good.

They were good. They were good. Other than the prestige factor of being able to say my book has a legitimate publisher. Well, no, they helped me. I had an editor, and she was like, no, don't put this chapter in. So they tell you what. But how much marketing do they do for you? You know, they're good.

It's all good. The whole thing was great. I loved the experience. Are you going to ask him to come and bash his publisher right now? I'm just wondering if the world...

No, no, no. I hear people tell me they have books with publishers and they're selling them after shows. Yeah. But the publishers aren't really doing anything.

Well, they do it. But technically as well. They're putting them in bookstores. Ain't nobody going to no bookstore. Well, they put up the money to publish these books.

They're expensive to publish. I know. They front you. You get an editor. You get production and some distribution. It's literally available for a bookstore to order, which when you do self-publishing, it's very hard to hit that New York Times list.

Ain't nobody going into the bookstore. It's not counted. I don't like that. He's a southern senator voice again. Has anybody been in a bookstore this year? Yeah, multiple times. By the way, the reason I sometimes don't finish a sentence, at her voice again. Has anybody been in a bookstore this year? Yeah. Multiple times. By the way,

the reason I sometimes don't finish a sentence, yeah, because Dan is always going to jump in. I always have to try to, defensive driving. Yeah, well,

I'm glad we're having this discussion, by the way. You think when I talk to my wife, I don't finish a sentence? Well, actually, I don't there either because she interrupts me,

but in normal conversations, I finish sentences. I've been with you in normal conversations and you don't. All right, well, I don't there either because she interrupts me. But in normal conversations, I finish sentences. I've been with you in normal conversations, and you don't. All right. Well, you pointed out to me the next time. You guys are the best. Now, we know what you're discussing. But so, you know, as native English speakers, we don't necessarily need to hear every word and every syllable.

But rest assured, there's some missing words and syllables. You keep giving him an out. I'm sure. Norm and I both tried to offer segues during the show and Dan Adam is like on his own GPS.

I'll tell you something. Good night. Good night, everybody. There was a cold open and there was a cold close.