The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Trump Author Michael D'Antonio

Episode Date: July 8, 2016

Trump Author Michael D'Antonio

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar show here on Sirius XM, Channel 99, The Comedy Channel. My name is Noam Dwarman. I'm the owner of The Comedy Cellar. I'm sitting at our ad hoc comedian table while we renovate our kitchen. I'm here with Dan Natterman. How do you do? And the great Mr. Dove Davidoff. How do you do? A regular guest here at this

show. I asked Dove to come today because today is my wedding anniversary. Anniversary. And Dove just got married a few weeks ago. And I thought we'd invite my wife on to talk. I would like to welcome Noam back. He was out of town for two weeks

on a family vacation. Welcome back. In the Holy Land. Let me turn mine down a little bit. The motherland of Israel. Two weeks he was gone. We missed him. Although the place oddly enough functions just as well without him. I'm not sure

he needs to be here. To be honest. But I know he enjoys coming here and feeling needed. So we're certainly happy to have him stop by. There's nice things happening in the Comedy Cellar because we opened a new room. That's right. New room. While I was away, we've added a third room of comedy.

What do you think, Dan? I haven't seen it, but I hear good things. Did you hear good things? I heard good things. Well, no, but I'm assuming there's good things. I'm assuming it was good because everything Noam touches seems to turn, if not to gold, then at least to silver. He's got Midas.

He's got a light Midas. Can I say something? Dan says that a lot, but it never sounds like a compliment. Well, no, that's the thing about what Dan does. He says it as if it's like, you know, the guy just constantly defies the odds and it's just luck. There's no accounting for it. It's like a Forrest Gump type.

Exactly. It's a Gump, yeah. No, I... Mr. Magoo. You might perceive it that way, but... And it might sound... Say something nice to me, Dan. Say something nice.

Have you ever... Can you muster it? Well, I think you're... I think you play a good mandolin. Good. I mean about my... He plays a tremendous mandolin. About the success of the... I was talking to Estes.

Well, I'll tell you what. You haven't fucked it up. Well, let me tell you this. And then we'll bring on our guest. I'm excited about the guest. In the last ten years, the Comedy Cellar has

five years, has really taken off, correct? Yes. I would say so, yeah. Now, we're going to have an author of a Donald Trump book on in a second, as opposed to every dummy who bought real estate in 1980, and everything went up. Everything went up, yeah.

And it becomes difficult to say was anybody smart or not smart because everybody who bought real estate was smart. It has not been a comedy boom on the island of Manhattan. As a matter of fact, most of the clubs seem to be going down. Right. So it didn't have to happen this way. If every club was just packed, oh, he's just riding the wave of a club. But actually, it's exactly the opposite. All the other clubs have gone down, and we continue to go up.

So something has to account for that. I have a certain theory, a hypothesis. Go ahead. Well, you've created a culture here. And that's a big part of what accounts for it. When you walk into a comedy club and it feels like you're walking into something created by Walmart. You've got chrome on the wall and then some guy in the back with an open shirt, a gold chain, hoping to sell another drink in the back.

You feel like you're at Crazy Eddie's. And you come to a place with art on the walls and decent, you know, and yeah. It's a salon. It's a culture. It's a whole thing. It's a big deal. It's a big deal. It was a big deal for me early on. And it's a salon. It's a culture. It's a whole thing. Yeah. It's a big deal. It's a big deal.

It was a big deal for me early on. And there's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of stuff that's gone on in the last five years behind the scenes, which Dan's not privy to and I can't really talk about. But a lot of tough decisions were made. And that could have gone either way. And things where I was actually a majority of one on some of those decisions. Wow. And they paid off.

All right, can we bring on our... Guys, I'm very excited about this. I'm very into politics. Dub's very into politics. Dan... No, I like politics, but I just often have thought that this show should be more comedy

and showbiz-centric. Right, but... Not that I don't like to discuss these. But even Howard Stern talks about politics, should be more comedy and showbiz-centric. Not that I don't like to discuss these. But even Howard Stern talks about politics, and we can talk about it. The great Howard Stern talks about it. We can talk about politics. Yes, yes, yes, he does. And Jon Stewart used to talk about politics,

and a lot of comedians do. Steven, can we bring over our guest? All right. So we have a booker by the name of Stephen Calabria who is now our booker Stephen Calabria is now getting us some

first rate guests. We used to have a booker. Sit down. And then we stopped having a booker for a while. So we've been joined by Stephen wrote this one. Pulitzer Prize winning writer of books, articles,

and original stories for film, Michael D'Antonio, pronounced correctly, has published more than a dozen books, including Never Enough, a 2015 biography of presidential candidate.

I have to correct you already. The truth about Trump. Why is this, what the hell is it? Why does it say never enough? It's The Truth About Trump. Come on, get it together. Oh, my God.

I'm humiliated. I'm sorry. No, they changed the title. At first, never enough seemed like the thing to go with because it was literary. Right. But people, you know, their hair went on fire after they learned anything about Trump. So now we're calling it The Truth About Trump. The Truth About Trump. The Truth About Trump.

Wow. He's not going to give you the truth. Wow. So you wrote this book, and you started writing this book when he was already running for president, or no? No, 2013. Oh, my God.

So you really lucked into it, right? Well, you know, he told me he was going to run the first day I met him, and I laughed. I actually laughed. Why? Well, the idea of Donald Trump in the White House in 2013, it just seemed, you know, this had to be a publicity

thing. This was pre-birther or post-birther? He was still in the middle of birther. He's still in the middle of birther. And his kids were all upset about it, but... I'm interested in that. Well, go ahead. His kids were upset about the Bertha thing.

Oh, yeah. Ivanka and... Donald Jr. Donald Jr. And Eric. They told me that they all come together sometimes, and they'll challenge him when they think he's gone off the reservation.

Donald Jr. actually caused a fight, was in a fight down, not caused a fight, was in a fight down here one time. It was in newspapers, but go ahead. He thinks he's a tough guy. Yeah. I mean, he goes out and shoots animals.

That's how he's tough. I get the feeling that you're not a big Trump fan. I'll tell you one thing. Yeah. He looks a lot like Sir Richard, I don't know, was he a Sir Richard Attenborough? And I would just like to, if I could just pass this picture on. Dan's saying that the author looks like Sir Richard Attenborough. Was he a Sir?

Apropos of nothing. Well, it's apropos of the audience. Apropos of the audience. The audience doesn't know what this gentleman looks like. They don't know what Attenborough looks like either. I got news for you. Guys, this is important. So his children were upset about the birther thing.

Because I'll tell you that, you know, I always kind of liked Donald Trump. I had read The Art of the Deal 20 years ago. I was impressed by it. I read it as well. And there were things in it that I actually remembered for years after that. Just a stupid thing. He always talked about how if you ever want to get anything done, you

need to speak to the boss. Only the boss is going to be able to do it for you. Only the boss cares really what's going on. It always stayed with me. And a lot of things like that. And actually, I was just rereading it recently. And I'm like, this doesn't seem like the guy running for president this guy this seems like a smart guy who wrote this book well right i mean it's a strange thing because on some level donald is very smart when he says i'm a really smart guy i've got all the words the best words he does have

the best words you know he's not an idiot but he's I think there's a psychiatric issue I really do I've all been saying I have a picture of the thing but remember what I said my problem with Trump isn't necessarily the language he's using as much as it is the picture of him hanging over his bar in Mar-a-Lago

in tennis whites that was my whole problem it's the kind of psychology that results in hanging an oil painting of yourself in tennis whites with a body that doesn't look like it's yours.

It's strange. It's very strange. Let's go through this step by step. I also want to get to the great escape. What's that? Another Richard Attenborough?

Richard Attenborough. So I, during the birther thing, I was, when he said, you know, we're finding out some very interesting things. And I said, hmm, you know, maybe. And then it became very obvious that he was lying, that he weren't finding out anything. And I said to guys around here at the time, I said,

what kind of person tries to undermine a sitting president of the United States on a lie? lie doesn't seem like the act of a patriot if he was really finding out some things and you know yeah cut come on with it but if you don't find out anything then yes i listen you know what we didn't find anything is our president and the idea i was defended by that

how do you account for that well and what it is offensive a lot of these tracks he actually inherited from Roy Cohn. So you know, Roy was Joe McCarthy's right-hand man and did a lot of the Army McCarthy hearings

ruining people with innuendo. So this is a trick. Lifelong homosexual and denied it up until the end, right? He was anti-Semitic too. Anti-Semitic, racist, gay Jewish guy. I mean, go figure.

Sounds like Dove. Well, you know, it's funny you mention that. I'm also paradoxical. So what was his goal? Why was he trying to undermine Obama at that point? Was he already thinking about running for president? I think he was. You know, in 2011, he had some polling done and he was

looking for his platform and it was going to be some issue that he could get people really riled up about. So you go birther, no one else wanted to touch it. You know, after 2011, even the most right-wing guys in the Senate were dropping it. You it. They just said, look, this is too much. It's bad. There's nothing there. Especially since we have a birth certificate and we have a birth announcement in Hawaii. Right, right. But if you know that there's about 30% of the country that's freaked out that there's a black president,

and you're going to run for president yourself in the Republican Party, and you can grab those people and say, I'm standing there for you, challenging this guy. That's your base. And he just got lucky there were 16 other people running in 2016, and he could pick each one of them off because he had that secure birther base. I think you know my position on the whole birther thing. I've made no secret of it. Yeah, this is good. I fully believe that Obama was born in Hawaii. However, I don't believe Hawaii is a state. Well, if Hawaii is a state, Puerto Rico should be too.

I've seen no documentation, and I think it's a surprise. So the politics of fear, essentially, right? The politics of, I mean, who was Dick Cheney, right? No, no, no. Who was the campaign, the name is escaping for George Bush, when he was running. Karl Rove. Karl Rove, right? I mean, isn't that a Rovean kind of tactic,

is to go after something that will hook into people's insecurity and fear? Well, what do you mean? The whole fear politics, and correct me if I'm wrong, is about developing and attaching to people's insecurities about defense or religion or whatever it is. It's a lot easier to go that way than to be positive.

Sure, because being positive would ask you to question your own beliefs, and if you're not strong enough to do, I mean, to some degree. You know. And we had the Cold War was all about being afraid of communists. And when we lost them, we sort of lost our enemies. Well, and so, you know, with the wall and with

the Muslims and with, is that not engaging in fear to a degree? Hold on, hold on. I want to take it step by step. I just want to know. So you think he does his birther thing and he's kind of setting himself up for an eventual run for the presidency? Yeah, that's his core group.

Now, he said famously and in that book, Art of the Deal, that he often goes into a situation not knowing exactly how he wants to come out and kind of plays the room and plays it by ear. Is it possible that he just went into this and like, you know, when he got there, he's like, well, this is good. I'm getting attention. So I'll just, I'm just kind of bank this attention. Maybe not sure I'm going to run for president, but you know, this is just like a, like, I mean,

how, how much of this was a plan? It plays into marketing brand synergistically, whether it's politics or business is what you're saying? No, I'm saying how much of it was actually a plan, I'm going to do this, and then this is going to set me up for run for president. And how much of it is just kind of an instinctual, just keep moving forward in some way? It's instinctual, I think, explains a lot of it. But I think when Obama humiliated him at the White House Correspondents Dinner, I think that was the night that he decided he was going to run. I think it was very personal. Everything is personal with this guy. You know, I guarantee you, I am under his skin right now, because he trusted me. You know, And I haven't betrayed him. The book is actually quite positive in some sections.

You can't take away what he achieved. Trump Tower is there, and he is a billionaire. How many billions? Nobody knows. But his whole thing is personal. So when Obama did that, there's no doubt. What did Obama do for people who don't know? Oh, God.

He used most of his appearance at the White House Correspondents Dinner to make fun of Donald. You know, he made fun of The Apprentice saying, you know, I know you stayed up nights worrying about meatloaf. You know, who was going to stay on The Apprentice? And on that night, Obama was actually calling the shots on getting Bin Laden. Right. So the contrast between Donald and Obama was actually calling the shots on getting Bin Laden. Right. So the contrast between Donald and Obama was amazing. So, Michael, assuming that that's the case and that there is some underlying clear, you know, narcissism, megalomania.

You know, I don't know what the DSM, the psychological manuals, how they define this stuff. But it seems like. No, no. It would say. But it's like, you know, you know, if you read my book, The Truth About David Off, that Dove likes to throw around these words. He knows where his diagnosis is in the DSM. No.

Yeah, no, exactly. No, no. No, I know a little bit about it, but when you have a personality like that, it seems like most people with those kinds of disorders don't have families that are intact and or supportive in the way that Trump's seen to. So what would account for this seeming togetherness on one side and this love from this group of people and also this narcissism?

Because usually the two are not sort of, aren't able to happen at the same time. I think it's a good question. I know it's a good question. I think it is because I think usually you expect some rebellion against a guy who's so overbearing. Precisely. One of these kids should have gone off the reservation. The two non-psychological people like to make fun of my interest, but I'm going somewhere.

No, you're right. But I think, first of all, there's billions of dollars at play here. Yeah, sure. So if you're one of his three oldest kids, are you going to walk away from that? Absolutely. That doesn't seem like a fair answer to me. I think you've got to give more credit. In other words, they really do think their father's a dickhead, but they're just pretending to be.

They love him. They do. They do. I mean, there's also the kids, each one of them separately, told me that they had an us-against-the-world kind of mentality. You remember they went through that terrible scandal in the early 90s with Marla Maples and their mom, and the best sex I ever had is on the front page of the Post. They were really hurt by that.

But they turned it outward. They blamed the media. They blamed everybody in the culture. Didn't one of them not talk to the dad for like a year? Donald Jr., yeah. I mean, he was really mad. And of the three, I think he's the one most likely to dissent in the family. But they decided it was us against the world.

And, you know, it's kind of nice if it comes along with jets and a mansion and helicopters and all that. And they can really do whatever they want to do in that company. So there's a lot of opportunity for that. I want to tell you why I think I don't agree with you even though I know nothing about it. You know everything about it. That I see again

and again that people who know him like him and have a pretty good opinion about him. There's just as many people that don't know him. I've heard about people in Atlantic City. I know guys that were building out there. I know a lot of people that know and have very negative experiences. That's a different thing.

I'm not talking about people he may have done business with. He's got friends. I think he's got just as many enemies from everything I've read. For instance, where are all the people coming out to do newspaper interviews who worked for him, the countless people who worked for him and known him over the years, coming out and telling how horrible this guy was, how crazy this guy was?

Very few. Very, very few. Even though, where are the women who are complaining about how badly Donald Trump treated them? What, he called one of them a hun? I mean, the stuff... But being narcissistic... Wait, wait, let him answer, let him answer. Well, you know, what, he called one of them hun? I mean, the stuff that... But being narcissistic... Wait, wait, let him answer.

Let him answer. Well, you know, I think he does treat many of the people who work for him very well. If you go to work for him and you make it, you make more money than you would ever make anywhere else. You get more responsibility. You climb further and faster than you would in any other organization. There's a price to be paid for that. You're on duty 24 hours a day, and he drives people very hard.

But that loyalty is true. There really is a loyalty there. On the other hand, he does screw a lot of small people. You know, if you can't litigate with him, he'll nickel and dime you to death. He won't pay you for months and months and months. He's driven lots of people out of business. So it's a tough thing to analyze this and say, well, his family loves him. Some of his friends like him.

That proves something. I'm not sure it proves anything. No, I think it proves that he has a family. His kids love him. I hope my kids love me. Well, isn't one of them right there? There is one of them here, so she must love him. I hope my kids love me. Isn't one of them right there? There is one of them here, so she must love me. He seems a little shy.

I'm a business guy, not on his level, but business can be pretty hard-nosed, and it can be tough. When one guy succeeds famously on a path where a lot of other people have not uh i'm very reluctant to say but you know he didn't he didn't pay this uh contractor i don't know what happened with him in the contractor and i don't know that he drove them out of business or or he just made a better deal with them you know i remember my father made a deal with somebody here at one time and i don't

know how to encapsulate it, but there was an option on the deal where he could take another room. And in the end, my father made a good deal for himself. He executed the deal exactly as it had been negotiated. And the other guy ended up out of business, kind of. This was only brought up in the context, though. And the other guy was resentful.

Right. But a deal was a deal. But nobody's saying it proves something. We're just saying it counterbalances the idea that just because the people that you know that said they like him there may be just as many people that say that they have a problem with him not many, I don't see them

I've met lots of them the press is hungry for some story about the guy who worked for Trump you have people come out of the Clinton White House and write books bashing Clinton. You have people coming out of the Obama White House. You don't have people coming out and writing these books. And he's been in business

for 30 years. Well, first of all, you don't leave him without signing an NDA. And you don't leave him without... And contractors don't write books. No, they don't. And, you know, I've met lots of people that he's just run over. But here's the point. Why can't he run over people?

But here's the point is that whatever people are saying about him in terms of his business practices, nobody seems to be saying that for which he is most criticized. That is to say, nobody's saying he's a racist. Nobody's saying he is a misogynist. Nobody's saying Donald Trump, he's bad for small businessmen because he doesn't pay on time. They're saying he is a racist. So is he a racist? He says racist things.

Like what? Oh, have you watched the campaign? Don't you think the birther thing was racist? At heart, that birther thing was about there's a black guy in the White House. That's your interpretation. What else? Before we leave

entirely the idea of a kind of hardcore narcissism, what is it about a human being that is a relentless marketer long after they can use the money? What is it about him that seems so extremely whatever it is that he is that other people aren't? Larry Silverstein is

bigger than he is. The guys that related. There are plenty of people that are bigger than he is that aren't nearly as this demonic pursuit of brand acknowledgement or something. There is something fucking strange. He can't stop. This is what I'm saying.

He said to me that he will never reflect on his own life because he's afraid of what he would think. Yes, it's weird. So he's not even willing to think about himself in retrospect ever. Yeah, the inability to apologize, the inability to acknowledge certain things. Like, acknowledge having had a problem in a way that he takes responsibility for. Ever in his life. What the fuck is going on? But I think he doesn't feel that he has to be a human being in the way that you think people are human beings.

I guess not. But I like to think a president that's capable of foreign, you know, diplomacy. You know, we started this conversation talking about whether he's actually a patriot. You know, does he actually have an investment in the American endeavor? Hard to believe he's a patriot. I'm not sure that he does. I think he's a Trumpist. Yeah.

He thinks Donald Trump is the smartest guy. All right, so you want to know whether he's racist or not. He thinks that his genes make him superior to everyone on earth. That's a Trumpist, not a racist. Well, there's something wrong with a person who thinks that my genes, my mother and father came together and created me. That's what makes me part of the superior group. Whatever's wrong with it is not.

Michael Jordan doesn't feel that way? I think Michael Jordan would say it made me a great basketball player. I don't think he'd say it makes me a superior human being. Okay, but that's not racism. It's eugenics. I don't want you to get upset with anything I'm going to say. No, it's okay. But I think you're making a very weak case for someone who doesn't already have an opinion on this, if you had to demonstrate to someone who was coming to this clean,

say, listen, this guy's a racist. Oh, I didn't know. Why is he a racist? Well, there was this birther thing, and we all know that was kind of racist, and he thinks his genes make him a spirit. That is not a compelling case for saying he's a racist. I didn't hear him saying that he was a racist. I heard you guys asking about it.

He says racist things. Well, I said, what did he say that was racist? He's talking about the wall and the Mexican judge. Let him answer. Jesus. I think in the campaign, there's plenty of examples. Because I actually, I don't support Trump. But I actually don't think he said anything racist.

His announcement. So here's how his announcement went. He had a few words that he wanted to say. He wanted to say Mexicans. Yeah. He wanted to say rapists. He wanted to say drug dealers. Yeah.

It didn't matter that the rest of it was word salad. His goal is to promote those three words. A wilted word salad is how Taranto describes it. If you see the way that he talks, if you write down a sentence, it makes no sense. Right. And he contradicts himself. This is Donald talking about ice cream. I really like chocolate, but today I had vanilla. I think it's my favorite flavor, but strawberry is even better.

That's right. That's pretty good. But his goal is to get those inflammatory words out there. And whether you think he's overtly racist or racist in his heart, I don't think matters. It's the desire to whip this up in people. To make sure... By the way, I think the Mexican rapist thing was as close to the line as anything he said. Do you think he's a racist?

I don't think he is, to tell you the truth. I think that he's a bad guy. Fair enough. He's a Trumpist. I don't think he cares. If you're black and you can help him, he doesn't care. This is what happens to me as a guy who doesn't support him and thinks, essentially what you start out with,

that the guy is just psychologically something's not right. I can't see him as president. But then I find myself with this urge to defend the guy all the time. Even when he talked about the Mexican judge of his thing, which is a stupid thing to say, and totally self-centered, I said, well,

but when he says, was it to Jake Tapper, he said, listen, the judge is a Mexican. I'm building a wall. What don't you understand? I was like, yeah, he's right. That's not a racist thing to say. If I were Donald Trump, I wouldn't is a Mexican. I'm building a wall. What don't you understand? I was like, yeah, he's right. That's not a racist thing to say. If I were Donald Trump, I wouldn't want a Mexican judge. I agree.

You're right. Everything is self-referential. So when he goes to Scotland and the Brexit vote happens, his initial thought is, good for me. Because more people are going to come to my golf course. Or worse, when he congratulates himself after Orlando, when he tweets, this is why this is really the essence of why I think he'd be

a terrible president. He's really not self-aware. That's kind of what I was saying about the psychological disposition seeming not right. Yeah, but here one of the world's leading experts on him world's leading experts on him, when Push says,

no, I don't really think he's a racist. Yet, the entire country, half the country, is rallying against this guy under the banner, this guy's a racist. And when you ask them, well, why is he a racist? They can't answer it any better than you do, which is something wrong. I don't know. Something is wrong there, too.

I have a theory. When half the country wants to smear a guy and call him a racist, and they can't even give you a solid example. But you have to agree that he's gone a lot further than any candidate we've had since George Wallace toward whipping up this division in people. George Wallace, for our listeners. No, because the— Can I just tell our listeners who may not be familiar with Governor Wallace,

we're not talking about the African-American comedian. We're talking about the segregationist governor of Georgia, I believe. No, Alabama. Alabama. And he famously said, segregation now, segregation tomorrow, and segregation forever. That was a famous quote of his. To be fair, what you just said assumes that... One of my earlier jokes, by the way, was my impression of Governor Wallace doing the weather.

Precipitation now, precipitation tomorrow, precipitation forever. Because it never got a laugh. If you had a room full of authors, it might have gotten a laugh. No, I like it. Well, you do. You're an educated man. But your average comedy goer doesn't know who Governor Wallace was. Your statement, it assumes that people agree with your position. In other words, if I feel that, listen, you know, I have a contracting business.

I can't compete anymore. I'm out of the job. And I live in a border town. And it's a nightmare. And rape and everything has gone up. Or I live in Germany and rape has gone up by 20 times, I think this immigration thing is really a problem, then he's not whipping it up.

He's actually talking about a real issue. So what's the data on Mexican immigration? It's down. It's down for the last eight years in a row. No, he's talking about what's already here. He's concerned about the fact that there's, whatever, 15 million. And at what rate do those people break the law? At a lower rate than citizens.

They actually... I agree with you. You know, this is all kind of... There's a lot of red herrings being thrown around here. Yes. These are actually... Every politician has red herrings. Right, but you'd rather drive on the road with an illegal Mexican immigrant or undocumented immigrant.

What I'm saying is that anybody... I find them adorable on the whole. Anybody who wanted to raise the issue, look, the country is changing. The character of the country is changing in a way that we did not vote on. It's happening as a matter of fact, if we could have voted on it, we would have voted against it. And any candidate who wanted to raise that issue was going to be called

a racist. There is no way to talk about that issue without the left. You can talk about it without saying we're going to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. You can talk about it without saying rapists, drug dealers, murderers. The rapist thing is the one thing he should, it's inexcusable. And I know his family wanted him to retract it.

He never did. But are you saying that if not for that, I mean, the wall, why can't we build a wall? Look, our country has had waves of immigrants, the Jews, the Italians, the Irish. We never voted on it. Our country isn't organized around voting on who can come in. No, it was legal. It's part of our Constitution. You know, you can come here.

Well, there have been, I mean, the last major piece of immigration legislation, that would be the 1965 Immigration Act, I guess. I mean, I don't know how that came to be. That wasn't voted on directly by the people. You know, half of us have family who came here undocumented or didn't get... Not illegal. Undocumented and illegal are two different things. Right.

It wasn't required then. I think that this is a very difficult issue to talk about without stepping over those lines. And Donald is not the guy to do it. No, he's not the guy to do it, but I haven't seen anybody who's been able to do it. But if your point is that the environment is extremely politically correct and it's very difficult to broach these issues without being subject to being called names that simplify your position, of course that's the case. And in addition to that, he does seem to rankle people in a way that others don't, regardless of the language he's using.

Well, and he loves it. I mean, this is what's so difficult for me to watch in his rallies is it feels like they're going to, that the violence is going to happen. And when it does happen, he doesn't really take responsibility for it. Yeah, that's another big one. Go ahead, cold cock that guy as he's coming up the steps. I don't know what that's all about. I've never seen it before. Yeah, you know, I'm even torn about that. But anyway, what about, is he a sexist?

I think he's an old-fashioned sexist, yeah. I mean, if you think of sexist as women are primarily sex objects and they're there for me to gaze upon and enjoy that way. Yeah, but he'd also rule respect to women's intellectual abilities, their business abilities. He's the guy who said that you're doing all right if you've got a really nice piece of ass next to you. That's what Dove says. Right. That's what every guy knows.

Right, right. He will just say kind of crude He's vulgar He's a very vulgar guy But vulgar doesn't really make you sexy Not necessarily, no He said that Hillary

was schlonged He's just vulgar I thought the comment about the Mexican lawyer was vulgar. I thought the comment, to me, it's all, all of this shows a vulgarity of personality. And it does not show racism or sexism because he talks this way and says these kind of things about everybody, about Rand Paul's hair,

about Marco Rubio's ears, or whatever it is. His fingers. Yeah, so it's not as if he says, well, you know, he's really measured, except when he talks about black people. It's not that. It's just as the way, this is a universal attack. But isn't the bigger issue

that he is not genuinely racist or sexist? He isn't, or is he an ideologue. He's somebody whose self-interest reigns so supreme that anybody or anything that substantiates his objectives, they're okay. You can't be a racist. A racist actually has a kind of, there's a code. There's a kind of, he doesn't care what color you are. If you help him, he'll get money to Democrats or money to Republicans. I think that's a good point.

Absolutely. And that's what's a little bit scary when you have a constitution. If you read Art of the Deal, you get the feeling that he's on the contrary, that he's not a racist, not a sexist, and not a homophobe. You know, he seems to. No, and that's what's so strange, too, is I actually think his gut is pretty liberal. Yeah, I do, too. He doesn't really give a crap about it. And Roy Cohn was one of his best

friends. He was a lifelong homosexual. And he knew he was homosexual. He took care of him when he was dying. He put him up in a hotel. It's a very complex picture and I think what you're talking about it's all about what's good for Donald. And the strange thing is that he thinks that he's best for everybody, too. So he would be the best president because he's the best person, period. So two more questions I have. I have a question as well.

Should I do it now? Yeah, go ahead. Well, I'd like to know, it's something you might have more intimate knowledge of than the general population because you've spoken to the family. What do you make of his relationship with Ivanka Trump? Some have suggested that he has a sexual... A sexual...

And by some, he means Danette. No, not me, but a big joke. A lot of comedic hay has been made out of the fact that Donald said that if... A lot of comedic hay has been made out of the fact that Donald said that if... A lot of it. That if Ivanka was not my daughter, I'd be dating her. A lot of people have made a lot of jokes about that. And then there is a... That's not incestuous.

I didn't say it was incestuous, but... Do you think he wants to bang his daughter? I think he thinks that his daughter being beautiful and sexy is good for marketing. This is a marketing thing. He wants to call attention to her and say, by extension, in his office, he's surrounded by beautiful women. It's like walking onto a set of a TV show or a movie. Really, what an ass. Like, really. But so isn't then the grand question, is being a narcissist and being an effective leader,

are they mutually exclusive? Not necessarily. I mean, this is so interesting. This is such an ambiguous situation. There's now a lot of talk in the professions, the psychiatric profession and psychology, that narcissism is functional. That it's not really...

Good for a jet pilot. Well, it's not necessarily dysfunctional in our culture. You know, we're... Well, Bill Clinton was clearly a narcissist. Most presidents probably have been. So this is all... But especially Bill Clinton. Right, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, you want to... I just... We're kind of a little bit... So the question... But especially Bill Clinton. Absolutely. The last two questions were, is he a good businessman? He's a good dealmaker. I don't think he's interested in running businesses. That's what's so interesting. It's why he failed at the airline. It's why he failed at casinos.

He gets bored. Yeah. So he makes good deals. When he can hand it off to somebody who can run it, it works. And when he can't, it doesn't work. He makes deals. So I think, I mean, you have to define what a good businessman is, but I think that makes him a good businessman.

I mean, again, if you read The Art of the Deal, and you read all the different moving parts to some of the deals that he went through and he, and, and he was, this was, he's not bullshitting this. I mean, you can read it and you know, this was really going on. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it's pretty amazing. He pulled rabbits out of hats in a way that was quite impressive to me. And that's, that's no amateur, you know? Well, he was the first one who is too big to fail actually. Yeah. Yeah. And that's pretty brilliant. The banks knew that if they stuck with him, they might get it back. And that was also his idea about debt, about our debt,

the idea that it's too big to just, if we default, they're just going to renegotiate better terms. Right. Yeah. Well, it's an unconventional way of thinking, but it's worked for him. You can't argue it. You can't argue it, right? And so then the final question is, if he were to become president,

is there any chance that he could be a good president? I think we'd have to pray. I think that the one thing that could save us is that it would be unbearable for him to be considered a bad president. So he might despair himself to humiliation. And this is a really important point about Donald is the thing he fears most is shame and humiliation. And if he can do it well by surrounding himself with the right people, listening to them, he'll abandon every policy he's suggested so far. I mean, it really, it's about his performance.

That's a good thing. It is a good thing. And so I think that's why people say, well, I might take a try with this guy because he's not that bad. So you think he, what do you put it, 75-25 he'd be a disaster? 80-20? I'd give him 25% chance of being okay. I don't think he understands

the world at all. Or he doesn't even seem to want to. That's so disturbing. You know, he can hire people who understand the world and I would hope he'd listen to them. I'll tell you this about Michael D'Antonio. I wish he were my daddy. All right.

Seems like such a nice guy. I want to bring my wife on. You're welcome, actually, to stay. Juanita, come here. Buy the book The Truth About Trump, available from Thomas Dunn Books. I'm actually fascinated by your take on him because on the one hand, clearly you

have a pretty negative opinion about him but you do give him begrudging respect on matters that I like. Every review said, you know, I treat him so fairly it almost hurt the reviewer's heart. Because he does have parts of him that are very admirable. He's certainly

resilient. This guy's been up and down and achieved more in his lifetime than most people could do in three lifetimes. And Bill Clinton was a much more relatable narcissist. He was a guy that could apologize and feel empathy and really communicated that on a number of levels. Trump doesn't really do that. A lot of it is lip service when he talks about other people or poor people, these people. Bill Clinton feels it on some level. He loves the uneducated. I love the uneducated.

I love the, there is no ideology. There's only himself. I love rapists. If rapists are a vote for him, I love them too. I think we all have to admit that when he says to him, I love the uneducated, there's my African-American. This is just his awkward way of talking. I mean, I don't think you can read anything into that. I don't.

The truth about Trump. When he said Megyn Kelly about blood coming out of her eyes, did you think he was referring to her menstrual period? He wasn't talking about her eyes. He said coming out of her, you know what? He is a little obsessed with menstruation. It's an issue. Why'd you hold back on this?

Is that because your daughter was here? You can read about... Hey, shut up there. Come on. We have a scoop here. No, this is a guy who's very concerned about women's bodies. He had the issue of the woman who wanted to breastfeed. She was a lawyer for the other side,

and he got all freaked out because he said it was disgusting. We looked into this. What do we decide about, Stephen, about this woman with the breastfeeding thing? What do we finally decide about that? We didn't come to any. What do we determine?

The decision wasn't made. Well, maybe the decision is Donald wasn't breastfed himself, so that might be the problem. No, there was like something weird with the story

that she was going to breastfeed in front of him or she wanted to be excused to breastfeed. No, there was a breast pump. That's what it was. Sorry, it wasn't breastfeeding. It was a breast pump. That's what it was. It wasn't breastfeeding. It was a breast pump.

That's what it was. She wanted... Have you ever seen a breast pump? My wife is a breast pump. Oh, my God. He goes... I mean, it's really... It's disturbing. It's like milking a cow.

Why would you want to do that in front of someone? Yeah, I mean, it's off-putting. It truly is. Maybe it was a tactic she was using. Maybe she had a sense. You know, he does have that germophobia thing, and I felt some compassion for him.

You go in, and the first thing you want to do is shake his hand to see if he'll do it. And he's trained himself. He can do it. He just winces. He wipes it off on his pants. The truth about Trump. Michael D'Antonio.

Are you married, by the way? I am. How many years? 38. 38 years. This is my wife, Juanita, of six years. Who might not be 38.

She's 40. No, she's 40. I like them. She's 42. She's 42. Looks good, right? Yeah, yeah. And we've been together

for 20 years. Proof of known sexism. We've been together 21 years, eight months, and six days, yeah. And we've been together for 20 years, Zach. Proof of Gnome's sexism. We've been together 21 years, 8 months, and 6 days. Unbelievable. And today's your anniversary. And today's my wedding anniversary. Well, Dove and I were both at their wedding. So that was six years ago already?

Six years ago today. Six years. Muscle talk. Muscle talk. And what is the secret to a lasting marriage, sir? Well, first of all, that's like asking Mayweather, what's the secret to being a heavyweight or what is the secret to a lasting marriage, sir? Well, first of all, that's like asking Mayweather, what's the secret to being a heavyweight or what is he, middleweight? He's a welterweight.

He could tell you, but you ain't going to do it. That's so true. Now, Michael D'Antonio could tell you how he, you're not Michael D'Antonio. I spent 30 minutes, 30 minutes I spent with this man and you are no Michael D'Antonio this is the sweetest most lovable guy

I've ever seen yeah he's a wonderful evenly balanced gentleman with a keen mind and a good heart if you don't believe me ask his daughter she'll vouch for me

yeah 38 years I still love to hear his advice what's your secret to a lasting marriage because Dub just got married two weeks ago

yeah a month ago, yeah. You've really got to stick with it. You can't walk away when things are tough. I think people get into a conflict or have a disagreement that matters to them. It's a serious issue. And they think, well, this is a deal breaker.

Getting in touch with our own vulnerability. So what is a deal breaker? Well, I married a therapist, a Jewish therapist. I'm in residential care. So are you saying that the sweetheart really? Do you have to? It's Tatiana. Their nanny is calling, so hopefully there's no urgency at all.

This is our au pair. Au pair. An au pair is a nanny that I guess is from Western Europe instead of Eastern. I mean, how does that work? An au pair. So are you saying that the secret

to a long marriage is just to stay married? That's essentially what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. I mean, don't give up. Don't give up.

For Pete's sake, you know, look around you. Does anybody else have it easier and better? I doubt it. You know, that's a funny...

I thought you were going to say, do you see anybody better? No, no. I mean, it's a commitment. So thought you were going to say, do you see anybody better? No, no. I mean, it's a commitment. So what you're saying is acknowledge that it's crap all over the place. And so you might as well stay where you're at. That's the pessimistic way of saying it.

But there's some truth to that. Why do you want to leave the foxhole when there's people being mowed down there? Right, right. They're being mowed down there. You know, you find that the person who's crazy fits with your crazy. It's the old boredom, loneliness debate. You find that the person who's crazy fits with your crazy. It's the old boredom loneliness

debate. Our own Duff Davidoff, who's this gentleman here, has recently married and he was the all-time booty hound. You know, when I got in touch with a lot of things, once I get psychological, we went to couples therapy.

For how long? Well, We went twice You got no right to an opinion I was hysterical crying You had a bad guy You got no right to an opinion You went for a year Give me your opinion

First of all She was a great therapist No she wasn't There you go You went twice She gave you a massage During our session That's not a great therapist

Yeah If you had one wackadoo That doesn't mean That you know The whole profession is Everybody's got a She gave me a foot massage It's more a great therapist. Yeah, if you had one wackadoo, that doesn't mean that the whole profession is. Everybody's got to. She gave me a foot massage. It's more like family therapy.

Yeah, that's absolutely true. She gave me a foot massage. She says, I have to tell you, I feel really bad for you. Happy anniversary, Juanita. I know. She said, you're really stressed that she gave me a foot massage. No, she was like, I'm learning the art of reflexology.

Let me, take off your shoe. Let me, and I sat there and started to cry and I was like, I'm literally going to fucking lose it. It was like,

I left and I was like, I called her up. I was like, I'm done. Like, it's over. I think what Noam did. We had another therapist.

Go ahead, yeah. I think what Noam did that, you know, I think was a very good move in terms of keeping marriage together is he waited until he was like almost 50 to get married. So, you know, he didn't, in other words, he didn't, his sex-heavy 30s. I had to wait until my T-level hit a certain level.

He had to wait until his sex drive was not outrageous before getting married. Well, there's something to be said for having that. Now, Dove Davidoff was the ultimate poonhound. You didn't know Dove back in the day. He still is. If you did, you would have written a book. I can tell just by looking at him. You would have written a book.

You would have because... You would have written a book. He's a loon. Because he had pulled moves that you would not decide. I had a few salad. No one left to lie to. Oh, my God. I could say the same thing about you.

Take it easy, sweetheart. Go ahead. You know, I mean, you ever say the same thing about you. Take it easy, sweetheart. Go ahead. You ever heard the story about him? Michael D'Antonio doesn't care about the story about me in a taxi cab that got some broads to pull over. No, he doesn't care. I wasn't going to talk about the taxi cab. The story we told last time Doug was on the show about how he was in

a hotel in Vegas. It's a long story. I met my first long-time girlfriend in a threesome though. I mean, if that's indicative of anything. That's nothing compared to the hotel story. But you listen to the other if you want. If you're interested, you listen to the last episode Doug did with us. That's where you want to use your time, Dylan.

Mike, where are you from, Mike? New Hampshire originally. You know, it had to be New Hampshire. Such a decent way about it. It had to be. Nobody that nice is going to be from. Not from New York. It's Vermont or New Hampshire.

You've got two places. The Shire. Maybe Maine or Halifax. I lived in Maine for a while. Nova Scotia. I don't know. What's the name? The Armenian campaign manager for President Bush Sr.

Then his son is the governor of New Hampshire. Oh, Sununu. Sununu, yeah. He's a tough... He's from Shire? And, you know, one of the big presidential scandals involved a guy from New Hampshire. Oh, Sununu. Sununu, yeah. He's a tough... He's from Shire? And, you know, one of the big presidential scandals involved a guy from New Hampshire.

You're much too young to remember, but he had a vicuna coat. His name was Sherman Adams. Took a coat. He was Ike's chief of staff. Lost a job for it. And 20, 30 years later, Johnny Carson calls Donald Trump and says, Donald, there's a Vicuna

coat missing from my closet. And two of your guys were in my apartment. They stole my coat. Now, Trump says, I know those guys. They wouldn't steal your coat. They're from Queens. They don't know what a Vicuna coat is. Johnny says, no, I want them fired.

Those guys stole my coat. So Donald's telling me the story, and I'm thinking, the punchline is, I stood up to Johnny. I said, I'm not going to fire my guys. The end of the story is, of course I fired him. Wow. See, that bothers me. It bothered me, too.

And I left. I had a guy with me as a witness. And we get down to the bottom of the elevator, and we look at each other like, can you believe he told us that? This is going in the book. It is something endearing about the fact that he told you, but that's not a nice thing to do. There's a lot of endearing things about a lot of people that you don't want to be president. It's strange.

You know, I kept thinking the punchline is going to be I stood up for my guys. But no, he said that's celebrity. You have to do what the celebrity wants. I mean, you know, It's very forthright. It is. There are a lot of people who would have done the same thing that he did when Johnny Carson, and most of them would not have

admitted it to you. It's a tough call. What that says about a person is the guy who just admits it and is like, warts and all, this is who I am, that's what I did. Or does it show more psychological health to know better than to admit it because at least you're more self-aware? I don't know. You know, that's what's so odd about him.

I think he thinks he never did anything wrong in his life. So telling the story, it's like, well, I did it, so it must have been the right thing. My wife accuses me of exactly the same thing. Have you, by the way, ever's like, well, I did it, so it must have been the right thing. My wife accuses me of exactly the same thing. Have you, by the way, ever seen a show here, Michael, here at the Comedy Club? I try and stay tonight. Yeah, please do. Do you watch comedy stand-up at all? Do you have any comedic favorites?

Boy, you know, I do love Chris Rock. I like Louis C.K. They both come here a lot. You're the only one who ever called him Louis. Everybody else calls him Louis C.K. They both come here a lot. You're the only one who ever called him Louis. Everybody else calls him Louis C.K. What does he call himself? Louis C.K.? Louis. In fact, I think he spells it L-O-U-I-E.

There's an S there. Often there's an S, yeah. He does say Louis, but you said Louis, so I don't know what that says about you, necessarily. I'm not too savvy when it comes to comedy. You know, Ann Coulter is somebody I have to imagine is not your favorite person. Is it an act?

No, it's not an act. It's not an act, but she is a nice lady. She was here last week at the show, and do you know who her, I wouldn't say by far, but clearly her favorite comic on that particular show was? Dan Natterman. Was you? It was Dan Natterman.

I'm not surprised. She's brilliant and she can really talk. She's a big defender of Joe McCarthy. I think she wrote a book about how he was right. She's a big defender of Donald Trump. The truth is she's a very nice lady. She is a very nice lady. I've yet to see her.

She comes here with some regularity. And I've seen her just melt the most shore and coulter haters into jelly. They all walk away just totally charmed by this woman. Well, I think we all have to be able to talk to each other, don't we? I mean, you know, one of the things that is wrong is everybody thinks, well, if you're against me politically, I'm going to be against you as a human being. That's a big thing that's wrong. And there's no evidence to suggest because I think a lot of people would assume that she was racist, when in fact

she hangs out with black people. Sherrod Small, who's a comedian that works here regularly, is a dear friend of hers. I believe she used to be good friends with Jimmy Walker from Good Times. Because he's a dear friend of hers. I believe she used to be good friends with Jimmy Walker from Good Times. Because he's a conservative. Is he really? And her

I think her boyfriend is a Jewish gynecologist. Oh, wow. I don't know if they're dating or they just hang out together. No, they've been together a long time. So this is not the portrait of a woman who is and she tipped our Islamic waiter. You wouldn't

believe the tip she left. But she didn't know he was Islamic. No, she didn't because I told her. Because we were discussing it and I said, we were discussing immigration. I said, you know, Maroop is Islamic and he was representative of the vast majority of Muslims that I've met, which are very, very nice people. Of course. And, you

know, so she knew he was Muslim, and the tip she left was outstanding. By the way, you declined to offer even the Muslim ban as evidence that he was racist. Was that an oversight on your part, or you don't think it's racist? I think it's xenophobic. You know, I'm not sure that he's against Muslims, period. I think he's just crude. I think of him as a

guy who's kind of lurching around like Gulliver. And he wants to do something, wants the attention every day. He wakes up looking at how he can exploit the news cycle. And he is good at it. I started in the news business and he is really good at making a story go to the top. If his supporters wanted more open immigration, do you think he would just be for more open immigration? It's wherever the power lies, isn't it, in a way? I think if he thought he could get those votes. Right.

So when he says that he's going to go for Hispanic votes, I think he wants to go for them. Yeah. I think if that requires him saying, you know, we're going to moderate this in this way and that way and I'm not talking about you and your family, I'm talking about the bad guys.

He could do that. I could imagine that. I think he really means that. I mean, you know, there's an aspect, I don't want to get back into it or not, but there's an aspect of Donald Trump which, not the way he speaks, not calling the Mexicans rapists, God forbid,'ve talked about this many times, like, my father was an immigrant, but he was, he felt that George Washington

was his forefather, you know? He bled red, white, and blue. Now, I'm very, very familiar with the attitudes of, like, my Mexican employees and my, that is not their attitude. They're fantastic. But I said, well, Tony, you know, if America had to go to war, you think you would say, no, I'm going back to Mexico. Really, fantastic. But I said, well, Tony, you know, if America had to go to war,

you think you would say, no, I'm going back to Mexico. Really? This is, I mean, it is a totally different attitude. And I think that's part of what he's responding to, that there's not a melting pot anymore, that when he says, make America great again, everybody, I don't think that's racist. When I was a kid, the general attitude was to be proud of your country. We felt good about ourselves and confidence in ourselves. The general attitude now is

be careful not to teach the kids that we're great, you know, in schools. Columbus, make sure you bring out how terrible Columbus was. Make sure they know what we did to the black people. Make sure they know what we did to the Indians.

And I'm not against all that. But there's a kind of... Obama wants the same thing. No? There's a kind of total... So you have immigrants who don't want to necessarily become American and it's exacerbated by the fact that they can text home. It's not like they left the home country never to return.

They can go back anytime they want. They can call for free from their cell phone. There's no separation. Western Europe is going through this right now. Coming from countries that are raised on an anti-American ideal. In Mexico,

they are not fond of American-American history. In the Arab world, they're not fond of American-American history. We are the villains in those nations. And all these things add up into what a reasonable person can say is, you know, this may not come out well.

It didn't come out so well in Yugoslavia. It doesn't come out so well between the French and the, whatever the other ones are in Canada. You know, just because you have multiple nations living together doesn't mean it's all going to work. More often than not, it doesn't work. And if it is going to work, it probably does depend on the mentality of the people wanting to be one nation. Well, it does. And we don't have that now. I think what you're talking about, though,

is also that it's a much more complex world than your father entered as an immigrant. Right. People know a lot more about the good and bad. You know, this is all post-Watergate, post-Nixon. Our innocence is gone. Right, post-Vietnam. And we see we have been the bad guys a lot of the times. What nation hasn't? Right, if you go to Iran and you talk to the people there, they love American culture, but they hate what we did to their country.

And there's a reason why they're mad at us. So it's almost like we have to have a new model we did to their country. And there's a reason why they're mad at us. So it's almost like we have to have a new model for how to get along. I have the answer, by the way, if you want to know. I actually emailed Ann Coulter to tell Donald Trump, but I didn't get anywhere about it. This is what I understand. You interpret

everything that he says, but that's not what he's saying. He didn't explain it in that way. That's what you're saying. That's not what Trump is saying. See what I go through? He's not explaining himself in that way. That's what you're saying. That's not what Trump is saying. See what I go through? He's not explaining himself in that way. That's how you're interpreting it. People interpret it in many different ways, what he's saying. She's right.

And he is a little bit of a Rorschach that way. So I don't necessarily know that's what he's saying. My answer is that every, and this was Jon Stewart's suggestion, it goes from the left and the right, there should be mandatory service on this nation. Sebastian Younger just said that in the travel book as well. There should be mandatory service. Such that if you're thinking about going to live in America,

you have to say, okay, but I'm going to have to send my kids to the... That if you do get there, Muslim, black, whatever it is, you spend a year or two really learning to hang out with people other than yourself to become one nation. Yeah, I think that's a great idea. It also satisfies the psychological need. For the people who really don't feel good about this country,

they will self-deport. They'll say, fuck it, I'm out of here. I'm not sending my kids. And that's a good thing, too. So we left with people who at least were willing to want to... What's that? The instance of PTSD claims in Israel is around 10%, even though they see action at a much higher percentage than we do militarily. 10% of our military sees action. 50% of our military claims PTSD-related benefits.

What Sebastian Younger in the book Tribal is boiling that down to is a lack of a communal experience around service. That's right. When you come back here and you're isolated and you're the guy with that experience and that guy isn't, it creates conditions that manifest more in some PTSD related stuff. I mean, there's something like 3% of our country provides the military service. Yes. That's crazy. I mean, I said.

It is crazy. And it also makes it very easy to go to war when no one has skin in the game, as a businessman would say. So I thought of this would be a way for Donald Trump to put a positive spin on things. And he didn't even answer my emails. What you're talking about is also the opposite of what George Bush said when we had 9-11. He said, go shop. Everybody was waiting for someone to call us to serve. We wanted to come together and do something for our country, and there was nothing to do. And if you think about providing that for people, I don't know

who could get away with proposing it and enacting it, but it would be a great thing. And quickly, when you hear a big part of Trump's platform is America's going down the tubes. We're getting killed by everybody. How much of that is substantiated by actual statistics? What does that mean? The trade deals and stuff? I don't know. No, there's, I mean, we've always been going down the tubes. It's like every

generation is going to hell. The older people always think that the younger people are the best. There is something, and I've told this story on the show before. I'm saying there is, and I'm saying is it that dramatic? No, this is in a nutshell. We're going out of business. I saw it, and it was really powerful.

We were getting some work done on our house, and we had the local white contractor who's, when I was growing up in that town, his kid would have been in my high school class. He would have been friends. He'd been a middle class, upper middle class guy. He came and gave us an estimate. Whatever it was. And then

Jose came and gave us an estimate for less than half. So of course we went with Jose. And that guy, the white guy that I am sure he's voting for Trump, he is seeing his whole life just ripped from him in a way that's not fair.

Noam loves to tell this story. But you don't really know. That is the Trump. But you don't know in this particular instance that white guy might have been so busy with other shit that he gave you a high quote. If he really needed the job, he wouldn't have quoted that. Dan, nobody gives a high quote to get rid of you. No, Dan. They give you a high quote because that's what. the job, he wouldn't have quoted that. No, Dan. No, Dan. Nobody gives a high quote to get rid of you. No, Dan.

They give you a high quote because that's what... What kind of Jew are you? I don't understand that. Well, no, Dan's going to give you a high quote because that's what they're getting.

You call me... Everyone tries to get the highest price that they can possibly get. Yeah, but they also bid what they think is realistic. He was definitely overcharging. Because he's getting it, apparently.

Why would he bid it? Well, I'm sure in Westchester and Greenwich, he gets it. But I'm from Brooklyn and I'm not going to pay that. But either way, when Trump says we're all going down the tubes, he's getting it, apparently. Why would he bid it? Well, I'm sure in Westchester and Greenwich, he gets it. But I'm from Brooklyn, and I'm not going to pay that. But either way, when Trump says we're all going down the tubes, he's not talking about this one specific issue. That's a segment of the larger experience. What does that mean, we're all going down the tubes, trades deals?

No, but it's the same. In a similar way, it's what happens when a factory goes overseas. There are people all over the country who basically lost what they had. How do you make a living in this country anymore from your strong back? Things have become very much more disrupted, and the pace of disruption is much faster. So you could have a skill that works in the year 2002, and by 2008, nobody wants that skill anymore. That is scary. Tony Blair said on TV today, I thought he said it nice,

he says he's riding the anger but offering no solutions. Dr. Antonio, I have an example of a skill that you could make a very, very good living at this skill. Stand-up comedy.

In this place. In the 80s, you didn't even have to be funny. You could have, say, 10 to 15 minutes of funny jokes and 30 minutes of filler. And you'd go on to Johnny Carson, and you'd go on the road, and you'd make a lot of money. Now, these kookarachas, they're coming from everywhere. There's so many fucking comics. There are so many fucking comics.

What am I going to do? I got no other skills. You're a lawyer then. Well, I have that education. I mean, I'm not a... Dan and I both went to law school, by the way. Things are hard. I mean, Trump is plugging into something real.

And it's global. He's plugging into something real. But how much of this is immigrants and how much of it is just we're living in a technological world and, you know, things are moving? It's very disrupted. You know, what's really interesting

is around the world, the middle class is growing. So if you go to India, people are actually rising up in economics and in their life standard of livings and we're no longer dominant in the way that we were

and that's a hard thing. And our middle class is no longer growing. How about this for the ultimate irony? Who exactly is the constituency that wants immigration? It's business class. Yes. And the labor. Yeah, we want, I mean, that's what, the Democrats, I think,

probably envision that eventually these people are going to be voters for the Democratic Party. But the fact is that that what's that that the real the real uh... constituency for immigration legal and illegal people like me but it keeps it keeps wages down but you wouldn't know that by the people who work speaking for the people speaking against it the people who really most hurt by it seem to be convinced that this is what they want

and the people who were who have hurt by it seem to be convinced that this is what they want, and the people who benefit from it, like Trump, pretend that they don't want it. And one of the other paradoxes is that these trade deals benefit mostly the people who shop at Walmart, and the prices at Walmart are the only wage increase they've gotten. So they can buy more with their dollar because it's coming from China. It makes their standard... A lot more. Right, but their standard of living stays somewhat the same.

If we close the trade spigot, we're going to lose those cheap goods and people are going to be poorer. I mean, it's a really... But I don't think Trump really wants a trade deal. I think Trump wants to bluff so that the other side will give up something at the table. Wants to make a deal. To make a deal.

And, you know, I mean... Well, that was the whole theory about the deficit. It threatened to default. Negotiate a better deal. It worked with the banks. Why won't it work? That's the point. That's the point.

If you're big enough, negotiate better terms. Lower my interest rate. And how about throwing out all these English and Commonwealth country TV show hosts? There's a lot of them. You're right, Dan. Oh, my God. That's a really open up debate for you. Get them out.

Trevor Noah. I like Trevor personally. John Oliver. But he's got to go. And Oliver I don't know, so fuck him. And then what, Craig Ferguson? Is he still on the air? No, but...

He's in the History Channel. He's on the air. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the History Channel, whatever, but... All right, I would like to publicly wish my beautiful wife a happy anniversary. Oh, happy anniversary, guys. Yeah, happy anniversary. Does your wife

make you breakfast and stuff like that? Oh, my God. This is, I've been married 38 years, so I make her breakfast. Oh, take notes, baby. Take notes. I don't like this guy. You want this guy? You invited the wrong guy. I thought I was inviting a man.

No, but, you know but I travel the world. I do what I want to do. We've got a good deal going on. It sounds like you take care of each other. I read you loud and clear. Open marriage. I hear what you're saying between the lines. All right, I got to go.

But maybe Michael could come back. It's fascinating. There's so much to talk about. If he'd be willing to come back, I'd... Well, why don't we just... Why don't you take us all to dinner now?

And then we can just have a formal conversation. It's my anniversary. Not tonight. I will be happy to do that. Do you like steak? Actually, no. No, I owe a dinner.

Let me do that. No, no, I want to take everybody to dinner. Do you want to stay married? Of course I want to stay married. I do want to stay married. I hope so. to stay married. I do want to stay married. I hope so. Don't invite us to dinner.

Okay. Another time. Good night, everybody. Thank you. Good night. Good night.