The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - What About Weinstein

Episode Date: November 8, 2019

Joe Machi and Jim Norton

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, here on Sirius XM Channel 99. The Comedy Channel. We're here at the back table of the Comedy Cellar. My name is Noam Dwarman. I'm the host of this show. As always, I have with me my good friend, back from touring with Louis C.K. How do you do? Mr. Dan Natterman. Thank you. Back, yes.

Dan didn't even tell us he was opening for Louis C.K. And let's introduce Joe, and then we'll see. I'm sure people are interested in that. And we have comedian Joe Mackey, who has appeared. The brilliant, I will say, even though you didn't put it in the introduction, I will do an audible. What the heck? The brilliant comedian Joe Mackey, who has appeared on The Tonight Show, Conan, Red Eye, Red Eye, Red Eye has been on the air for like three years, Red Eye, and a finalist on Last Comic Standing. He may be seen regularly at the Comedy Cellar.

Welcome, Joe Mackey. Thanks for having me. I've also opened for Louis a number of times. Oh, yeah? Yeah, a bunch of times. And we just saw Bob Seger last week at the Garden. Well, what does that have to do with Louis? Louis was there.

He came with us. Oh, okay. Oh, you hang out with Louis, like, socially? Every now and then. Okay, okay, okay. So tell me, fellas, you must have some worry about... I'm also here.

Oh, sorry, sorry. And, of course, Periel Ashenbrand, or as the email person emailed us, called her Periela, which I thought was actually a better name. Thank you. Periel's wearing a shirt that says Periel on it. She also has earrings.

She's not wearing them tonight that say Periel. It's reminiscent of Laverne DeFazio. Laverne just worked with L. But, you know, Periel's obsessed with her name, it seems to me I think you had another shirt with Perrielle

when I grew up I mean as men well you probably can't relate to this at all but when you grow up you get things with your name on it

you see keychains you see you know all sorts and I never had anything because oh because there's no Perrielle's yeah I know

I didn't have any norms either right and the other thing is, if I had written Brilliance on there, I'm sure you'd have given me shit for it. Anyway, Louis C.K. So you get an offer from Louis C.K. and it must go through your mind. Is this a good career

move or a bad career move, Dan? Yeah, well, a little bit, but you know, first of all, nobody pays attention to the opener anyway, so I don't think it was a career move either one way or the other. I just seemed like something fun to do and to paycheck, obviously. And so I figured, why not, you know.

But I didn't worry that it was going to have a negative impact on me. You didn't worry? No, not really. I did worry briefly, but not enough to where I wouldn't worry that it was going to have a negative impact on me. You didn't worry? No, not really. I did worry briefly, but not enough to where I wouldn't do it. But it did cross my mind. I should worry about this. But I worry about everything, so it's not fair to ask. I'm always worried.

I feel like there's a lump in the back of my head that I think is new. So I'm a little upset. So you might be seeing me touching the back of my head. Okay, first of all, it's very rare that the lump in your head that you have to worry about is the one you can feel on your skull. It's usually on the other side of the skull. Okay.

You have bad vision. Yeah, usually that's just nothing. Like you're not going to feel a brain tumor. That would be a great place to have it where they could just get it really easily. Oddly enough, I feel relieved by that. I've never to feel a brain tumor. That would be a great place to have it, like where they could just get it really easily. Oddly enough, I feel relieved by that. I've never heard of a scalp tumor. Well, I suppose if the tumor was so developed that it were pushing my skull, it would probably have other symptoms at this point.

Right, right. You wouldn't be sitting here and talking. I wouldn't be sitting here. Yeah, like you might be going to get really into yourself and weird relationships. But maybe I am sitting here, but everything I think I'm saying is not what I'm really saying. Incidentally, the only hate I ever got for opening for Louis was here when he put his name on the schedule

and I didn't even, like, as most comics don't, we don't look to see who the other comics are before we get here. We just show up and someone who wasn't a follower of mine on Twitter tweeted me at Joe Mackey, Louis CK's on the show, are you okay with this? And I just never wrote him back. I'm like, well, tweeted me, at Joe Mackey, Louis C.K.'s on the show, are you okay with this? And I just never wrote him back. I'm like, well, you weren't at the

show. You're not my fan. Why do I owe you an explanation? It didn't make any sense to me. Yeah. I mean, it was such a crazy time, right? I mean, it seemed so important at the time. And now he's kind of like back on tour. and Jason Zinneman wrote an article about him in the Times where kind of a mixed review of the show but legitimized him, I thought, in the sense that he just reacted to the show. I think it was a positive review, mostly,

in terms of that he thought the show was funny, which is the main thing. I think he might have been somewhat disappointed that he felt Louis didn't do enough mea culpa. That's been going on forever, though. I feel like every time he performs, they say that he didn't do enough mea culpa. That's been going on forever, though. I feel like every time he performs, they say that he doesn't do enough mea culpa. No? Well, he never has done any.

But the thing is, so I heard Mark Halperin on a show last week, two weeks ago, and he talked about what he did was considerably worse than what Louis did. Like, that's kind of stuff like, if that had been.

Well, tell everybody what he did. So, the story with Mark Halpern is that he was at ABC, I believe, and he was kind of sexually harassing women there. The story, I recall, is like walking up behind them with an erect penis and, you know, whatever. Kind of stuff like that. Disgusting. But apparently the Mark Halperin story is that he then, he never got, it was never a complaint to HR. He never got in trouble. On his own, he somehow came to realization that he had a problem, and he got therapy, and then he never did it again.

He had a 12-year career, moved to NBC, and 12 years later, it came out in all this, and then he was... No pun intended. Yeah, and he was blacklisted. And he has spoken very, what seems sincerely, about how ashamed he is of what he did and how he's tried to apologize to the women. That everything, essentially, that people have claimed they wanted Louis to do. And what's interesting to me about it is that it made no difference. It didn't help him at all. Yeah.

Go ahead. If you stop judging people, how will they know that you're a good person? That's right. I think that's what's at what's happened so it does it does lead you to the conclusion uh... and you see this all the time you can make a good word analogy in the way the the republican uh... thing about the defense of the impeachment is is actually morphing all so it's like

but that was just the first line of attack was the mayor called but that he was never really about the mayora culpa. They're just going to continue to get at Louis. So in a certain sense, I think Louis intuitively understood that it doesn't matter what I say. But I thought he did say, I mean, I thought he did do a mea culpa. Well, he wrote that letter, and it didn't help him at all.

The people pretended he didn't even write it. I liked the letter because it seemed like it wasn't written by a lawyer or a public relations firm. I know it was very, I guess some people viewed it as terse, but to me it looked like this wasn't through a filter. But, you know, I guess you have your own lens. I was critical of the letter. I thought parts of it were very good. When he said, you know, when you ask somebody to do something, it's not a question, it's a dilemma or something like that.

But when he used the word dick in the ages on its it's not a question it's a dilemma or something but um... uh... when he used the word dick in the letter whatever was not about me so but uh... but but yet indian taken as a whole the letter was very sincere and uh... expressed insight into into his behavior and yeah it is it was an apology as a he knew is where policies criticize for that but but he also spoke and yeah it is it was an apology as he used were apologies criticize for that but but he also spoke

pretty deeply about it and it didn't get him any credit whatsoever so that i mean the reason you should apologize because uh... you're looking for a a corridor back is was apologize for this the right thing to do so in that sense it should matter whether it helped them or not. You should apologize because you should apologize. But the people who claim that

their issue with him is that he hasn't apologized, I don't believe that's what their issue is. You know, it's interesting because I read that he had said something about when to address this and is he supposed to address... Somebody said if he's doing Madison Square Garden, that's an appropriate time to say this. But is he supposed to address, you know, if he's doing, or somebody said, like, if he's doing Madison Square Garden, that's an appropriate

time to say this, but is he supposed to address this every single time he gets on stage? He hasn't actually really addressed it on stage. Not in a Barbara Walters type way. I don't know, but I really wonder about that as also

a woman and as a feminist. Is he required to address that on stage, though? Like, I don't really know how I feel about that. It's like he's at work, right? Like, if you get in trouble for something, are you supposed to talk about it every single time you go back to work? My feeling is if you don't like it, that's fine. But like, I agree that who decides what the rules are. But if you don't like it, that's fine. But I agree that it's a week. Who decides what the rules are?

But if you don't like it, that's fine. But don't go. If someone else wants to go, that's their choice too. And to try to say the guy can't work anymore, that's where I start to get angry about it. My feeling all along was I thought that he should have addressed it. On stage? Yeah, I thought he should have.

But I didn't think it was any of my business, and I didn't think it mattered. In other words, so he didn't addressed it. On stage? Yeah, I thought he should have. But I didn't think it was any of my business and I didn't think it mattered. In other words, so he didn't address it. Well, that's his career. What am I going to tell him? That's his life. He doesn't want to address it. He doesn't have to address it. And customers don't want to see him. They don't have to see him. I was just always about, you know, whatever a

willing performer and a willing audience, they want to hook up. That's, you know, that's as it should be. I don't have to approve of him addressing it or not addressing it, but yeah, I always thought I always thought he should address it. I would have addressed it if I were him, but that doesn't mean I know better.

He may have had a certain, very as I said, an instinctive common sense about the way he handled this. Look where he is now. Where is he now? He's touring the country. You know,

he's doing well. Yeah, I mean, you know, we played some big venues and they were sold out. Were you so funny? I'm sure you were very funny. Well, we all killed.

Dan, I love hearing you say that about yourself. Well, I said we all killed. Okay, but you loved yourself in there too. I did, yeah. Well, you know, his audiences. Okay, but you loved yourself in there, too. I did, yeah. Well, you know, his audiences, they're good comedy audiences. These are his fans, so you know you're getting good fans.

And you know they're not uptight. Yeah, that's true. Although my act is not necessarily overly edgy, but sometimes a little bit. Very little bit. You could probably bring back your N-word bit. Jesus Christ, we're editing that out. Oh, come on, Perry. She's uptight. Dan had an N-word bit but uh jesus christ we're editing that out well come on she's uptight but i did have an n-word bit early on that i this whole section is getting edited out but uh

shut up um what was i saying oh yeah but we all killed i was you know me uh kevin and uh and will um you know a good audience everybody kills you know um just like here at the cellar i mean pretty much when when we when one person kills everybody kills oh yeah know? Just like here at the Cellar. I mean, pretty much when one person kills, everybody kills. Oh, yeah, and people, like, when I'll come up and say, the crowd's great down there, and they're like,

oh, you're just saying that you killed. I'm like, no, I'm giving the crowd credit because when I bomb, I'm doing the same act. I didn't get worse from one day to the next. So usually it is the crowd. Like, my level of comedy, it's consistent every day to the next. So usually it is the crowd. My level of comedy, it's consistent every day of the week. I'm not writing a whole new act or getting rid of a whole act.

So usually it does have a lot to do with the crowd that night. But I don't agree with you, Joe. I see comedians the same act, and there is something subtly different that makes all the difference. Do you mean show to show? Show to show. To show to show? Show to show.

So, you know, a comedian gets up there and they tell a joke that I've heard a million times before. And I notice that sometimes I'll laugh at it, even though I've heard it many times. And magically, it'll be the same time that 200 other people

also somehow it struck them as funny as it struck me. I can't explain that, but it has something to do with the timing, the confidence, the vibe. That may be, but there's a lot that the audience has to do with it. Why was the whole shitty at the Super Bowl and great at it? You know, when every comic goes up, for example, at one of your rooms,

the fat black pussycat, sometimes for some reason, it's not as... That can be a tougher room. It's a tougher room, and when it's tough, everybody says it's tough, and when it's good, everybody says it's good. There are differences between audiences, and those differences are

significant at times. Yeah, and I wouldn't say it's an absolute. I do have better performances than others, but yeah, certainly. I think both points are valid. Sometimes a comedian is better, but absolutely the audience is a factor and an important one. And it's weird, the psychology of it, because sometimes the whole crowd is bad,

and sometimes the whole crowd is great, and sometimes the whole crowd is great. And I don't know how that happens. The only time I could definitively say this is going to be a good night or a bad night beforehand was when the financial crisis was going on. And we were having those 700-point swings on Wall Street each day. They're going to pass the ballot. They're not going to pass the ballot. People's moods really change day to day.

Really? Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. But it's tough, because sometimes you're like, oh, it's the Sunday of change day to day. Really? Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. But it's tough because sometimes you're like, oh, it's the Sunday of Martin Luther King weekend, so a lot of people aren't going to go to work tomorrow. They're going to be in a good mood or whatever, and then you bomb.

You're like, what happened? I thought that was going to be fun. It's hard to gauge sometimes. But very seldom is like, you know, we're all professionals. We're all at a certain level. So very seldom will one of us just bomb and then the next guy annihilates.

Unless the next guy happens to be Greer Barnes. Yeah, some guys almost always kill. If he doesn't kill, it's because he had a meltdown on stage. He's like Wayne Gretzky or something. He'd probably be offended by that comparison. He's like Will Chamberlain scoring 100 points. He's really... He dominates.

Why? What is it about him that you think contributes to that? Well, I'll say this. That not all humor is as universal. So, like, Joe is a little cerebral. So, yeah, you could have

a higher percentage of people who are cerebral in an audience and, you know, but Greer, he fires

on all levels to all people. So it's, you know, and, you know, it's physical and he's,

and he does, he's very likable. He's got a lot of, he's likable. He does, does the, the voices and he's magical, whatever it is. But, you know, you can watch him a thousand times. I have watched him a thousand times.

Dan, of course, is thinking about the lump on his head. He doesn't like to hear me compliment any comics. No, you said cerebral. I started to think about my skull. But Joe is kind of cerebral. No, no, can we talk about your... Impeachment? No, trip to Vegas. If there's anything... No one went to Las Vegas last week to check up on the club out there.

And I just was wondering if you had any impressions or there's any news. I actually didn't go to check up on the club. I stopped in on the club, but I went to meet with them. So the Rio, the hotel that we're in, was sold to some real estate conglomerate, Imperial, something they own in the Milwaukee Bucks. Periel? You okay, Periel? No, you said the Imperial? Imperial.

Imperial. But they're going to run it for another two years. So after two years, we may need a new home. So I was out there trying to suss out what our options were there. Oh, interesting. In two years. I just read an article today about the Palms nightclub. I saw it right across the street from us, yeah.

Right, not doing nearly as well as they had hoped. They sunk a whole ton of money into that. Yeah, like $28 million. Yeah. Yeah. I hope they can take a comedy club there. They sunk a whole ton of money into that. Yeah, like $28 million. Yeah. I hope they can take a comedy club there. That's a great location. Well, it's also off the Strip, which the locals like.

Yeah, the locals like that. And POM's a nice hotel, which the comedians will enjoy staying in, I think. Oh, gorgeous. It's got the movie theater. It's brand new, marble everywhere. Really nice inside. Yeah, whereas the Rio, the reviews have been more mixed. Well, the Rio's older, but the Rio, whatever.

The Rio's not even that old. It was built in like 1991 or something. In any event. So, yeah, you know, it kind of sucks. We spend, you know, like a million dollars on a club, and now the casino might be torn down. The hardest part is getting people who want to go to even know that it's available because I'm sure you had this. You'll do a show

and they're like, when are you coming to Cincinnati? And you're like, I was just there. It's just so hard to get. I mean, things are so fragmented just to get anyone to know that what you're on the same page as them. You know what a child you sound like to me? Do you know how hard it was to get the word out? Oh, yeah.

20 years ago when you had to stamp postcards and send them to your... That's crazy, yeah. It's like, it is so easy to get the word out. I'm sorry for the child name, but young is the word I meant. It's like, it is... The baseline always changes, so it's challenging to get the word out

now, even though you have the ability to for free communicate to every single person on planet Earth in real time on your phone. You used to have to go to the concierges of every hotel and hand them a stack of things. Yeah. We literally used to stamp postcards.

Dave Chappelle's going to be here. Oh, wow. And you have to send them out like two weeks in advance. And it was very expensive. And if you got 10%, whatever, it was such a nightmare to get the word out. I used to have ads

in the paper. The comedy, so I would have ads in the paper. Yeah, but who saw the ad? I think the ads were always a rip-off. I'm not sure ads work.

Are there postcards still around anywhere? Do you think there are any remnants of... There's postcards. I'm going to send a... I'm actually stopping all our Google ads for

Vegas for a week to see if it makes any difference at all. I suspect it won't. Are the numbers slowly but surely rising out there? Or it's been a plateau? No, it's every... Yeah, it's slowly but surely rising.

It's doing pretty well. Anyway, okay. So impeachment, Dan. Well, I haven't been following it. Is there new shit going on? Joe's probably following it very carefully. Oh, well. Ariel doesn't need to follow it to know what she thinks.

Trump Jr. outed who the person was in a tweet. Oh, the whistleblower? Yeah, but I didn't... The article I read didn't mention who it was. They just talked about his lawyer. So I'm still confused as to what happened. I don't... I mean... You know what?

Maybe I'm off on this, but what difference does it make who the whistleblower is anymore? We already heard the transcript to the recording. I'm sure the whistleblower had an axe to grind. But, you know... The transcript, everybody agrees,

is a fairly accurate representation of the conversation, right? Imagine this. Is that the case? Yes. We know everything that was said.

So imagine this. You get caught. Your wife... There's a whistleblower. Announces that you've been fucking around on your wife. And your wife catches you,

and you're like, honey, wait, wait a second. Let's find out who the whistleblower is. It really doesn't matter at that point. Once it's true that you're fucking around on your wife, it really doesn't matter anymore who the whistleblower was. It's a good way to deflect now, isn't it? No, it's not. Honey, she hated me.

Nobody gives a shit if she hated you. You were fucking around on your wife. So whatever he did or didn't do, I don't see why it matters who the whistleblower was. This guy Vindman, the colonel, did he add anything to the story? Or he just confirmed what was already known from the transcript? I think they're all basically saying the same story, which is, you know, it's pretty brilliant as kind of like a hypothetical

because it's open and shut, but it's not open and shut. But the basic story is that they were, you know, I haven't been following it that closely either, but the basic story is, correct me if I'm wrong, Joel. Not Perrielle?

I know you don't follow it. He wants my childlike exuberance. Young. So that they were holding up aid in order to get the Ukrainians to investigate this story about CrowdStrike, that maybe the Ukrainians were the ones who hacked the DNC server or something like that. And then either Hunter Biden specifically or just Burisma in general. And I think it's pretty clear, wouldn't you say, at this point, that he did what they were saying that he did, no? Hunter Biden or Trump? The quid pro quo.

Trump. I think it's a little vague right now. I'm not in a rush to judge. I don't know why everyone is because so many times before where it seemed like, I was like, oh, that seems like something that was really bad,

it turned out to be kind of false. I mean, we did the whole Russia thing for... When Bolton is saying, I don't know what that drug deal you guys are... I don't want any part of that drug deal you guys are striking or whatever Bolton said. Even still, I would like to hear

the other side of the story because even when the testimony was this Taylor, Bill Taylor last week, where it's like we only got his side of the story without cross-examination so you're not getting both sides and I don't see why I can't just wait

to decide. There was an interesting thing I read today on this thing, hotair.com or something, where this guy Jonathan Solomon had written about it, where that apparently there are some emails floating around during the Obama administration where somebody from Burisma was complaining or something about being this prosecutor in Ukraine being too hard on him. And the email apparently mentions Hunter Biden. So, you know, I don't know what's true and what's not. But I think the argument would be that if there's any way to say that it would, let's, let's, let's presume that,

let's presume that, um, that Hunter Biden wasn't involved. Okay. And Joe Biden wasn't running for president. Well, no, let's take it back.

Let's say a hundred binds involved, but Joe Biden is not running for president. And if there's any way to say that, well, yeah, that was, that looked pretty smelly. So the president would certainly be within his rights. We'd even want him to investigate that before he started feeding these people more money. Once you say that, if the answer is yes, then the next step would be, well, so what? So the way that Biden can prevent it coming out is by deciding to run for president. And now he's not allowed to investigate what he would have been allowed to investigate before.

And then, by the way, it was also not just that, but also this CrowdStrike thing. So, and then, so you can see the argument, I can see the argument, which says that, you know, it doesn't matter. He was within his rights and you can't prove a mixed motive may be, but a mixed motive is still, the president is still allowed to have a mixed motive. And then you add to that that in the end nothing actually happened. So let's just say that's what it is. And let's say it's bad. And I think it's bad. Next question is

is it so bad that he has to be removed from office? That we're going to nullify the votes of half the country or a little bit less than half the country less than a year before an election when they can decide for themselves how they feel about what he's done.

And I think when you start to think about that, that's when it becomes, I think, a heavy lift to talk about removing him. But I'm pretty offended by what he did. I mean, get fucking rid of him. Of course you say get rid of him. The sooner the better. Well, that's the thing that bothers me.

I think people have a visceral reaction to Trump, and then it doesn't really matter why. It's just get him out. So I don't know if that's an impartial way to... It's not impartial. It's definitely not impartial. So first of all, do you follow my argument there, Dan? Your argument being that let the voters decide?

No, I'm saying that if they can create enough of a record here If they can create enough of a record here to say that Well actually, you know what? This should have been investigated Then at that point, whether it helps Trump in the election or not Trump would say, listen, what are you saying? I should only be able to investigate this if Biden's not running for president? But you also said you're offended by what he did

Yeah, because I think that what I believe is that it's kind of like Chappelle walks in, wants to go on stage, and Liz says, well, I heard you have a really nice box at Yankee Stadium, you know, and I'm like, and she kind of like kind of weasel out some tickets, and then, okay, the tickets don't come through, and Chappelle goes on stage, and she goes, nothing happened. What are you getting all upset about? And I'd still say, no, you're supposed to be

running the comedy cellar for the comedy cellar. You're not supposed to be seeing how it can help you. You're only running it for the American people. And it pretty much seems like he was, he just shouldn't even begin to co-mingle questions of the

national interest with what he can do to help his own campaign. That makes sense. Now, whether that means he has to be removed from office. But you also said that mixed motives are okay. Legally. So, I'm saying, if you're trying to say it's a crime, you know, there's so many angles to this. I mean, take my personal opinion out. What you're saying makes complete sense, but I thought it was against the law to do that.

No, it could be against the law if it was naked. But if he can make the claim that, no, this was also my obligation as president. Nobody would have questioned this if Biden weren't running for president. Some people might have criticized me for not doing it. I look at this email email which mentions Hunter Biden. You can see that defense. I don't actually buy the defense. But zooming out, I'm like, well, the country is coming apart as it is.

And I know that 40 or 45 percent of the country probably will buy that defense. And it's not as if he's a threat. So nothing about what we've learned makes him a threat to remain president. He didn't even go through with that one. So I just think it would be very, very healthy to have him voted out of office rather than removed, especially because, sorry, especially because, and this the Democrats have to take responsibility for. They've been trying to impeach him since the day that he got elected.

So it really looks like, you know, you just finally found something. It's not as if they were really like, he's the only president in our history who didn't have his hundred days, you know, the honeymoon period. He never had that because on day one, they called him a Russian asset. And that fizzled. It's fair to be skeptical because we've heard all this before. I mean, for the last three years, we've heard that this was a Russian hack. But I think you're wrong, Joyce.

I mean, I think this one is real. That could be. I'm pretty, you know, I was very skeptical of Russia the whole time. I agree with you that even looking at it in the worst way, it's not enough to get rid of him a year before the election. That to nullify the voters' decision would require more, in my opinion, than what we have here. Like somebody... I mean, I think there's not a chance he's not winning again. I think he's for sure going to win again.

Really? Well, then that's democracy. Or Russia. I don't know why. I just don't want to make a prediction because it seems like every time I... I didn't think he was going to win the last time. I did.

You did? Yeah. I don't think he's going to win this time. I do. I remember when Nate Silver gave him a 29% chance of winning on Election Day. The rest of the meet was ridiculium. I have to say that I think that he will. I was more concerned four years ago about him being voted in than I would be about him being voted in in 2020.

Because four years ago, I thought, okay, nuclear war on day one. I mean, I thought the worst. I was like, oh, my God. So unlike you. And now four years have gone by, three years, and it's okay. Well, not really. Yeah, really. I mean, for you, maybe.

For everybody. No, I don't think that's true at all. Really? Are you struggling, Perry? What's happened to you? I'm not talking about me. Is that the bathroom's happened to you? I'm not talking about me You can't use the bathroom you used to use? I'm not talking about

She's talking about the kids in the cages I mean, you know, the list goes on That was terrible And the bathroom, by the way What is that, just like fucking collateral damage? Hold on, I just want to say Because people are crazy I'm on the side of trans people using the bathrooms

I know you are Just a joke, but I was Go ahead I'm still good with the bathrooms I don't even know why it's funny to allude to the fact that you might be trans because I don't find it humorous Every time you say everything's okay

somebody says, well what about the kids in the cages? I think that's a totally legitimate point But there were kids in cages under Obama too Not like this though More kids in cages I mean it. It's true. Not like this though. Not as many. More kids in cages. I mean it has gone completely off the fucking rails.

Listen, the kids in cages is very difficult. Especially for the kids. But if you put that on one side and on the other side you say we're going to decriminalize border crossings and then we're going to decriminalize border crossings

and then we're going to give cradle to grave health benefits to anybody who can touch down on the United States of America. This is madness and this is so far away from the American... Can you imagine... Forgive me because I

know this might not be something I can say but like trans people. I'm editing this out. Trans people from all over the world will come to America on tourist visas, overstay their visas, and then get free transition surgery. Good for them. I know. I'm saying, you know what? You might even convince me that that's okay.

I totally think it's okay. But I'm telling you that half the country, more than half the country, is closer to Trump on most issues than they are to Elizabeth Warren. They don't like him. He's repulsive to them. Yeah. He's losing the suburbs because he's vulgar. I'm not disagreeing. I've never disagreed with you on that. And, by the way, she's a nutcase.

She is so far to the left. You know what they said about Trump? You have to take him figuratively, not literally. They're going to have to start saying that about Elizabeth Warren because she has a plan for everything. But if her plans for everything are as thoroughly thought through as this Medicare for all plan was thought through, then her plans are bullshit.

Well, people say that about Bernie Sanders too. He's a nutcase too. Yes, he's a nutcase too. The Democrats could be in trouble. Ben Gleib is out. We don't think he's going to win. No, I don't think Ben Gleib is going to win. I mean, and Biden is

I think Biden is palatable, but... Biden's not winning anything. But he's feeble. He's not winning. I mean, it's ridiculous. The Democrats really do need to pull together a candidate that actually has a chance of really winning. And Mayor Pete apparently has trouble winning the black vote because he's gay, according to Mayor Pete's stuff. And then there's these middle-of-the-road, like you'd think...

So you're saying you think Trump is going to win? No, I don't think he's going to win because I just can't believe it. I do think he's going to win. Was it the governor or senator from Montana? They have very... They do seem to have flipped a couple of states recently. They have politicians

who have been successful in red states who are moderate, who would be shoo-ins in the general election. I think Tussie Gabbard, a lot of people who are moderate, even would be shoo-ins in the general election. I think Tulsi Gabbard, a lot of people who are moderate, even somewhat who just are never Trumpers on the Republican side, could vote for her. But she's kind of in bed with Syria.

And isn't she a Russian asset? I'm a Russian asset. What about Hillary? Maybe Hillary should get in. I don't know. She's never going to win. Why? I think the American people would vote for Hillary. Really?

If the polls didn't show that she was such a shoo-in, she would have won, I think. People just didn't bother voting. Didn't bother going to the polls. That could be. I mean, look, you know a lot more about this than I do. You really think Hillary has a shot at winning? What about, I think that a couple things have happened since the last election that favored Trump as well. The Covington Catholic School fiasco.

Nobody remembers that. Yeah, I don't think people will vote on that either. But there have been a couple of other things of that nature that have happened, I think. I think there are a few major issues. And just the people and just increasing what people perceive as an increased kind of war against

American history and white people. Yes. That is true. Gun control is a disaster. I mean, I feel like that's like a super major issue that a lot of people really, excuse the pun, up in arms about.

You know, if you just said up in arms, I wouldn't have laughed. I'm serious, so I think that's a really huge issue. No, you're rolling your eyes at me, not just at the bad joke. Well, I mean, I think that, first of all, I think it's pretty clear that Trump is sympathetic to gun control. Really? Yeah.

Actually, he outlawed bump stocks, which was the big, huge thing. Bump stocks, bump stocks. And then Trump actually outlawed them, unless I'm remembering wrong. And then he talked sympathetically about gun control, but then of course, yeah, the NRA, or whether it's the NRA or just the Republican voters, they don't

want that gun control. So, I don't know what a big issue that is. I don't know. The question is, is it a bigger issue? My point was that there are things that have happened since the last, since 2016, that make Trump more likely to win in a certain way. Yeah, Dan's right. I mean, I've said before, people say he's the biggest liar we've ever had as president.

And it's true. He's told thousands of lies. However, he's also maybe the most honest president we ever had about his intentions, what he said his intentions were when he was running and actually what he's shown as he's governed. So it turns out he really doesn't want to get involved in wars anymore. Now, we didn't know whether he really meant that. We thought he'd be some kind of power guy looking to, you know. We were really scared about Nash getting into a war, right? It turns out he is the one in his.

Sit down. We're joined now by Steve Fabricant, the manager, and outside the doorman. Hello, everybody. It turns out that when all this shit was going down with Iran, Trump was the one who was most in favor of holding back, of not getting involved in the military thing. So he does have a certain credibility on certain issues now. Yeah, he wanted to build a wall.

But I think given a choice between a wall, which to most people means some attempt to control the border and decriminalizing the border and extending benefits to everybody, I think most people are closer to Trump. I bet you even you're closer to Trump. Or we can't deport felons. Or that the Boston Mar Santa say, that the Boston Marathon bombers should have the right to vote? These people are nuts. But I still think most people vote on

the economy, health care, and the Supreme Court. And that's another thing. The economy is strong. If it stays strong in another year, it's almost, has it ever happened that an incumbent loses when the economy is strong? Health care is a disaster. It's Obamacare. It's been a disaster for decades.

I don't know. I mean, that's true, too. Yeah, we're talking about what's changed since 2016 that makes Trump more or less likely to get reelected. By the way, health care is not a disaster. I've done a lot of research on this. First of all, we have great health care outcomes in this country. If you take away suicide and car accidents, I believe our people are living longer than any country except like Singapore or something like that. But we spend twice our GDP on it as a percentage-wise, and it's a big GDP as it is. And what you're saying is statistically probably true, but when you go to the doctor and your medication is $200

a month, you can give me any statistic you want. And I'm like, well, why is this? But the only problem I hear is that no one really wants to address why it's so expensive. They just want to throw money at it. And that just gives people, like we would with colleges when there's more money available, there's no incentive to cut costs. So it just keeps going up and up and up. You know what? I think part of the reason we have trouble processing the medication being so expensive is because it's so tiny. Because if I told you it's going to cost you $200 a month

and I have something that I, and it's this big machine and for $200 a month this machine can keep your heart ticking. You say, well, that seems kind of cheap for that big machine. But it's like this little tiny pill, $200 a month. I mean, there's something psychologically, but for whatever reason.

That's a good bit. Yeah, that's funny. For whatever reason. Put him on stage. All the innovation in healthcare in the world basically comes from the United States of America. And that's why it's expensive. And I'm very scared to think about if they drive those pharmaceutical companies down to a minuscule profit margin, you're going to see all the advances that people like me and Dan in our 50s are hoping might swoop down and save us and can

extend our lifetime just in time. That's going to slow down to a trickle, all those innovations. You can't just wave a magic wand and have utopia. So I'm not saying healthcare, everything is fantastic, but I know that I had a thing a couple weeks ago, and in 48 hours I could get a CAT scan and boom, boom, boom. And I read about it in other countries. You could wait a month or two months in some other countries. Norm, have you had a colonoscopy?

I'm having one a week from Thursday. But did you have one at 50 like it's supposed to be? I had one at 50, yes. Oh, it was all clear? No, I had a small polyp. Oh, yeah. It's fascinating. Small, but that's not unusual. You can get your head checked out like tomorrow. My head checked out? There's a bump. But now that we have Steve...

He's not even worried about it. I'm over it. I don't want to talk about a colonoscopy. No, I wanted to talk to you about what's going on outside since you came over and said hi. You know they have Yelp reviews for colonoscopies? Like for doctors, they have Yelp reviews. Yeah, it's called ZopDoc. How are you going to Yelp a colonoscopy?

You don't know what the hell. You could say, oh, the colonoscopy went great. You How are you going to Yelp a colonoscopy? You don't know what the hell you could say, oh, the colonoscopy went great. You don't even know that they did a colonoscopy. You're under anesthesia. And how do you know they didn't miss everything? I remember someone recorded, put recorder on their phone and recorded the audio. This was a big

story a couple of years ago. Do you remember this? And the doctor made fun of them the whole time. Oh my God, no way. That's wild. That that Project Veritas? Yeah. Oh, what about the ABC? You're right. How else would they know?

The ABC thing, the woman was caught by Project Veritas saying that they had the Epstein story for three years. Oh, good Lord. That is brutal. Spiking the Epstein story. We got outside Steve here. I want to get his take on things. Epstein killed himself. Yeah, what do you say? Well, that's a big thing now on

Facebook. Everybody's posting these memes. Oh, and Epstein didn't kill himself. Seems to be a little smoke. A person on a Fox News show that was not even being interviewed about it just blurted out that. Did you see that? No. What did he say? He said Epstein was murdered

or something like that. I'm going to go on record and say in a loud, clear voice Epstein killed himself. That is my belief. I maintain that. Absolutely not. Why would he want to kill himself? Because he was going up the river for fucking kids. He had the money to get out of prison.

How do you have the money to get out of prison? Best lawyers. Who knows? No, come on. It was so shady. No, come on. It was so shady. He definitely was murdered. I'm not listening to Perry. I was opinion on this matter.

Is it possible? I spoke to the fucking medical examiner's office today. And what'd they say? They said that he definitively killed himself. Was his name Quincy? I just think there had to be so many people involved to cover up a murder that I just don't buy that.

Yeah, that happens all the time. No, it doesn't happen all the time. Well, first of all, I felt very gratified because I was actually responsible. You don't know this, Joe. There was an article in the Washington Post

which is still going around about this hyoid bone, is that how you say it? But I actually did research on it and I debunked the story. And I wrote an email to the Wall Street Journal. And they did a story debunking this idea that bone would not have broken except in a homicide. But as it turns out, the studies show that as people get older, they become very brittle.

Did you get credit? It's called the hanging news. I did get credit. I've been credited. If you Google, I've been credited for stories in a Wall Street Journal three times in the last, like, six weeks. Was it in the paper? Unbelievable.

Or is it just a footnote? Yeah, in the paper. That's pretty cool. It doesn't speak well of journalism as a whole, though. I know. It's terrifying. We need a common com-owner to send that. He's not qualified at all.

I know. I was doing medical research. Journalist. It's like me saying something like that. You read the email, right? It was pretty thorough. You don't need to be a doctor to know this stuff. It always reminds me of that whole Monte Tao, the linebacker

from Notre Dame that had the girlfriend that didn't exist. And so many stories were written about her and how she passed away. No one checked it. No one. Two phone calls and none of these would have happened. I hear stories like that all the time. But that's why I think he could have totally been killed.

I mean, crazy things happen all the time. People get away with the most insane things. Like, for example? I don't know. There was that one guy who was going to the hospital pretending to be a surgeon's assistant, and he was dressing in, like, scrubs, and he made, like, a fake nameplate. It was, like, a huge

story in the news. Is that the fugitive with Harrison Ford? Is that anything real life, Ariel? I miss. Anyway, so what else is there? Well, yeah, I would like to discuss something that I've been... I was sick last week, you know, with stomach issues.

I know Jim will... You think... I'm sorry. Jim, you think that Epstein killed himself, right? Hung himself. No, I was believing that. But when Michael Biden comes out, for me, the problem was always if those cameras really weren't working, then I know something happened.

And when Michael Biden confirmed that the cameras weren't working then I know something happened and when Michael Bodden confirmed that the cameras weren't working, something happened to him that wasn't suicide. The thing that convinced me was the fact that they said he tried to kill himself the week before and also that he had done something with his will but I was never committed to it and if things pointed in the other direction I was fine with that

and I think that he was murdered, yeah. It's hard to go in that direction anymore because of Michael Bodden, I consider pretty credible. And the state's being a little shady with some of the forensic evidence, and there's just too many reasons for people to kill him. But who ordered, in your opinion, then who ordered the hit? I don't know.

I always have the problem with, well, you know, who does this stuff? What are they going to do? Two guards falling asleep and two cameras not working at the same time on a guy with pedophile information? I mean, come on. But that means that a lot of people were in on it. So if a lot of people are in on it, I always find it hard to believe that everybody's shutting up.

A hundred percent. And I don't know how they pull it off. Jail's a controlled environment. But I agree with you. That's always my problem too. But, I mean, they're saying he hung out with Bill Gates. I don't think Bill Gates is a pedophile, but he hung out with people who are... ABC squashed the story. ABC squashed the story three years ago.

I mean, and that woman just was complaining. I mean, if you can get ABC to squash a story, it's not crazy to think that they have a certain amount of influence. But I don't know who did it. I have no idea. Clinton? No idea. Yeah, because if it came from that high up, it's just hard for me to think that they have a certain amount of influence. But I don't know who did it. I have no idea. Clinton? No idea. Yeah, because if it came from that high up, it's just hard for me to believe that something coming from that high up

and nobody's talking about it. I know. I always have that hard belief, too. I'm always, like, very practical about this stuff. Like, what, did somebody walk in and go, murder him, and then no one said anything? But when you consider the fact that the royal family is involved and Clinton's involved and this guy had Bill Gates to his house

and Ghislaine Maxwell knew Jeff Bezos, like there's too many people with power and worth over a billion dollars to think that somebody isn't invested on something not getting out. So first of all, if this is true from what we know, then we actually know two people who were involved in it, which is the two guards who fell asleep, right? They have to be in on it. Possibly, or maybe they just weren't there at the moment. I don't know how they do it.

Well, then they would have to tell some story, some weird story of why they weren't there. But I heard the same thing. They fell asleep, right? At least one of them fell asleep. So that means that the person that fell asleep is in on it. Maybe they were drugged. So where are they going to get the cash? The person that drugged them is in on it.

Yeah, no, I know. It's a really weird rabbit hole, like how many people. And I'm stuck on that, too. Taking off suicide watch. But both cameras not working. I saw Ocean's Eleven, and I'm telling you this is possible. Both cameras not working. I saw Ocean's Eleven, and I'm telling you this is possible. Both cameras not working to me. Well, if it is a conspiracy, it would be the story of the century.

Oh, yeah. Because, again, he has information on people. And if people at that level are involved, then this will be the greatest story of history. That's why Ghislaine Maxwell is staying hidden. When that thing comes out where that woman says, we had Clinton, we had Epstein, that story, it's very hard for me to believe that this guy killed himself now. There's just too many weird things happened.

And normally I hate conspiracies. I was dead set against it. You did not. You used to be into the Kennedy conspiracy. I was actually responsible for convincing you. And Bugliosi. Vincent Bugliosi's book, and I interviewed him. And I do think it was Oswald.

There might have been conspiracy in covering other parts of it up but I don't think there was anybody on the grass at all. Wasn't there a book I bought you years ago?

Best Evidence or something? That was... That's not Bugliosi. That was him. I just said it's Vincent Bugliosi. It was Bugliosi? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I interviewed him on the phone and he had some very convincing arguments against conspiracy. Yeah, he was a smart guy. I'm going to babble, sorry. Okay, Perrielle, you happy?

Yeah, I am happy. That's how you make a case, all right? Jim says it, everybody's like, okay, but two seconds ago, you were like, you're a fucking idiot. He definitely committed suicide. We're sexists. I still believe that he committed suicide. I just want to know when you talked to the medical examiner.

I talked to the medical examiner today. I still believe it was suicide. I'm not going to call Jim Norton an idiot. Do you know who he is? No, but you... I was on the side of saying he killed himself and everyone was killing me for it.

And I always said, with those cameras we're both not working in addition to two guards. It's too many things going wrong on a high-profile prisoner. It doesn't make sense to me. It makes more sense

that people who fuck kids and have billions of dollars had him killed than guard falls asleep, guard falls asleep, camera doesn't work, camera doesn't work, forensic evidence not given over,

Michael Bodden saying that the neck bones, there's too many weird little things for me to explain away. Ariel, the difference between when Norton presents it and when you present it is Norton's presenting it

with some logic. I may disagree with the logic, but he's using logic. You're just determined to believe no matter what the evidence is. That's not true.

That's not true at all. I said from the beginning that the whole thing is so shady. But the sense I get from you is you form your opinion and then you try to find reasons for it, if you can.

And if I can't? If you can, you just say it louder. Oh, so Dan, you weren't feeling well? Yeah, well, this is, so I started watching, I was home, I was watching, not that I'm, I'm home anyway. So I don't know what that has to do with it. But I started watching Old Roasts with Don Rickles. You know, they do those roasts with Don Rickles. And I just had some impression.

Have you ever seen those old roasts? Yeah, the ones that they did up at the club. Friars Club. It was a Friars Club. So I just had a couple of thoughts about that. Because roasts are in now, you know, in the comedy world. First of all, it's amazing the shit he got away with racially. He, you know, do you ever see that?

Was he Rickles? Rickles. I mean, he would like, he told like Isabel Sanford to like clean the plates or something, like implying that she's like a maid. Jesus Christ.

Or he kissed Sammy Davis Jr. He says, Sammy, I love you. And he kissed him and he said, is there any black on me? He actually called Nipsey Russell a spade. Nipsey Russell interrupted him

while he was doing the roast. He goes, I hate it when a spade interrupts me. Shit like that. It was just staggering to me, the degree to which you could not get away with that today. My kid, Sammy, you're a black man. I took a guess. That's what I take a guess.

If you ain't black, you fell into a bucket of M&Ms, I'll tell you. To you, my good friend, Freddie Prinze, who's your buddy, and we need the Puerto Rican people, I quote the grades of a... the grades, the words of a great Puerto Rican, Manuel Gertesas, who said to me in New York, do you want more coffee? Look at this, the Puerto Rican and the color guy are making plans. We roll the Jew. Now! Any thoughts? look at this the Puerto Rican and the color guy are making plans we roll the Jew now any thoughts it kind of comes back I'm afraid to even

talk about it it comes back to Halloween it's like you can go you can go as a costume as an axe murderer and an axe murderer is a terrible thing but for some reason

when you do anything that's remotely edgy as far as political correctness people throw out the context they throw out any kind of well well that wasn't well i'm dressing as a black person it's not necessarily black face because there was the minstrelism aspect of it there was the giant lips that they used to do or even justin trudeau, where he was an Indian guy and he got accused of being in blackface. So, I don't know, I think people just are so... Not most people, I think most people are actually

pretty fair-minded, but like with social media, you put a hundred crazy people in a room together, those crazy people seem normal. And that's what social media kind of does, and it's carried, instead of popular culture crushing that, it's infecting popular culture. But the thing is, you know, first of all, those particular jokes were kind of general jokes about blackness.

In other words, any black person you could say, go clean up afterwards. Or, did I get any black on me? The jokes that I'm hearing on roast now are more specifically tailored. And I think better jokes and more sophisticated jokes. Look, Brickles is funny, and he's very funny. But those jokes are kind of basic jokes that you could say about any black guy. It didn't matter if it was Sammy or Nipsey or Isabel Sanford. They weren't very sophisticated jokes, is what I'm saying.

Couldn't you make the argument that those are more racist? I don't know. I mean... Well, taking the racism out of it, I'm saying we've evolved. I think the jokes today are better. They're more targeted. They're more clever than those jokes. I've seen racist jokes on the current roasts, too. I mean, just to be fair.

Yeah, there have been. So, I don't know how to put this into words, but there's something else that's going on that doesn't get talked about, which is that

in whatever time you're living in, whatever that social norm is of what you're not supposed to say, it has a certain visceral effect.

It has a certain, you get a certain reaction when somebody crosses the line. So, like, you remember remember when the Arab threw the shoe at President Bush? Mm-hmm. And we learned that, well, the most horrible thing you can do in that culture is to hit somebody with a shoe, right? Like, this was, like, and you couldn't understand how, what an insult this was.

But we couldn't see it that way because that doesn't reverberate with us. Right. And part of the political correct violation is whatever time you're living in, it's like it's a shoe in the face at that time that a shoe in the face is considered to be the worst thing you can do. Right. No one's mad at Sir Silverman 10 years ago for some sketch. And it really was okay then. And I think I told you I was watching Star Trek and Captain, I mean, Dr. McCoy says to

Spock, you green-blooded son of a bitch. And I was like, whoa, Dr. McCoy, that's problematic. I actually cringed a little bit to hear him talk about you talk about you green-blooded this, because you don't do that anymore. Right. Even though it was an alien, and I thought, how ridiculous, but I had a certain, it was already, I'm already internalizing these reflexes. How did Spock take that? Spock didn't care. Well, he's a Vulcan, he doesn't really react.

But you understand the point, it's like, you internalize this reflex of the time that you're living with. You just don't say those sort of things. Like the last time I was on the podcast, we had that journalist from Tablet, and he was like, I'm afraid to even talk about this. Like I'm self-censoring before I've even gotten my opinion out. And then when you decide, fuck it, I'm going to say it, depending on what the norm you're breaking is, you're making a statement. So when Sammy Davis Jr., when Rickles made the joke about Sammy Davis at that time, he wasn't making a statement.

It was okay. If you were to make that joke now, it wouldn't be just enough to say, what, come on, we used to say it back then. You would also be making a statement now that you're not going to show that respect to the current norm. And maybe that's good.

Maybe that's what Lenny Bruce did. That's what George Carlin did. That's what George Carlin did. That's what stand-up comics do, actually. But it is different. You can't compare it apples to apples. No, you're right. That's so true. It really is. You are making that kind of a statement that

is larger than just the joke. You're really taking a stand, right? You're taking a stand. That's right. Rickles wasn't taking a stand. If you tell that joke now, you're taking a stand. And everybody took it in good... I mean, Nipsey was laughing, and Sammy was laughing. Everybody was laughing. I think

you'd probably get hit today if you did those jokes. Well, it's less offensive at a time when you know the person telling the joke is not taking that stand. Like, I don't need to show you that respect. I can put the shoe in your face. Yeah, but racism was considered, you know, that was a social norm then.

That's my point. I don't think it's racism. I don't think anybody perceived Rickles as being racist. Well, I don't know if that's true. At least not in that room. It can be racism. It could also just be the kind of ways people make jokes about Jews or whatever it is, you know, and we all take it in the

spirit of the, like, those kind of jokes happen at the comedian table and nobody thinks it's racist. That's different, though, I think. Right, because nobody's making a point. Right. But my second point was is that qualitatively, I think jokes

today are more sophisticated than roast jokes. I think those jokes were simple. I mean, Rickles is funny as shit. He's just got a funny way about him, but I don't think those were sophisticated jokes. Nobody today, if you told those jokes, would say, oh, what great writing. They almost seem like dad jokes in a way.

So on a related note, I'm reading my kids. What is it? I was going to say Howard Stern was funnier before we went on satellite radio because he was forced to be more creative with his racial slurs and sexuality and making fun of lesbians and this and that. Yeah, I

prefer Howard when he didn't swear. You know, when he... Yeah, there were rules for him to break. But it was also fun because he was frustrated. The frustration was also fun. But he was forced to be more creative. Right, but he was also frustrated, which was funny in and of itself. There's two aspects to it. Two things. So there is this famous story of Henry Mancini had to

write Moon River for Audrey Hepburn. Audrey Hepburn? For Breakfast at Tiffany's. But she had a very limited range. She could only sing, I think, one octave. So that was the task. So he had to write this melody with that limitation of being within one octave. So he wrote Moon River, which apparently, according to him, I think, was a melody he would have never, ever written. It just was without that limitation. So there is that limitation in art which forces you to overcome it and create some creativity in you.

But okay, so I'm reading now. I read to my kids. I have a seven-year-old and a six-year-old. And I find that they like books above their level because the stories are better. And the book I'm reading now, don't get mad, is To Kill a Mockingbird. Jesus Christ. That's well above their line. Well, I had no recollection

of how racial this book was. You've got to hire a therapist, too. Now, here's the thing. The book is a story about kids and about Boo Radley and the guy, and they don't know who he is. I mean, it's a natural story for kids.

And my kids are hooked on this story. And I'm reading along, and it gets to the word, not even the N-word, it's just the word Negro. And I'm afraid to say the word Negro in front of my kids. And I have to sit them down and talk. And then Rosalyn, my friend Rosalyn comes over She's black And she says to the kids

You know, the Negro blah blah blah And I was like, Rosalyn And she goes, what the hell's the matter with you? You can say Negro Like she was correcting me That the word Negro is It's not the N word It's like, you know

You can hear Negro But you also don't want your kids to say What's not a word that we use anymore. Right, I agree. Listen, to tell the whole context, my kids have been learning about racism since kindergarten. In the first grade, my daughter came home and said, Daddy, you're white.

Do you treat people badly? So by the time... You're like, yes, I do. So by the time... Yes, but not because of race. By the time they're hearing this story, they're already fully been brainwashed, or maybe that's the wrong word,

but it's really been banged into their head about racism and this and that. So they're understanding the story. My daughter has already been somehow absorbed with the fact that there's an N-word she's not supposed to say. And it's actually been nice to sit down and talk to them

about how it was then and how people were treated badly and to use a cliche, it is a little bit of a teachable moment to teach them about our friend Rosalyn and she grew up actually in Memphis at that time and how her family must have been treated.

And to see their faces, I can't believe that somebody would have treated their Rosalind that way. So it's not all bad. But I just keep getting caught on the language and it's kind of ridiculous. Well, I also feel like it's insane to be reading that to a six and a seven-year-old. But they like the story. No, I mean, it's kind of amazing, too.

I feel like I read that book in, like, seventh grade. Well, they can't read it. It's when everybody, or eighth grade, yeah, is when people generally read that book. But if they're enjoying it, they're enjoying it. No, it's absolutely, it's an incredible book. I'll tell you, there's parents out there. So we read it on the Kindle. And the Kindle is great because when there's a word which is difficult, you just touch

the word and the definition comes up. So my kids now, it's like a game. What does that mean? What does that mean? So they learn words and there's a lot of words I don't know. So we learn them together. So there's a lot of nice things to it. But the basic story is certainly easy for kids to understand. I think if you just, when the word Negro

comes up, you just, I mean, Harper Lee was no racist, right? So that was the word that was appropriate in those days. The story is an anti-racist story. So you explain to them that that's the word they used to use, they don't use it anymore, and that's another teachable moment. Yes, and how are you going to have

a powerful anti-racist story without depicting the racism? No, you're right. It's really important for kids to know about that stuff. So my third grader, she's seven,

so there was one time I did read one sentence, Calpurnia is the maid, and the sentence was like, well, Calpurnia just, Calpurnia said, that's just Negro talk.

You use a black voice when you voice Calpurnia. And my daughter says, she says, Negro? That's kind of racist, don't you think? So that's like clearly, you know, she doesn't need to hear it from me. They're being raised on this stuff, you know, on the anti-racist, which is good.

I'm not, you know, I don't like the fact that they're being trained that white people are evil. Well. Especially because my children are mixed race. So, you know, whatever. I don't like that. But I do children are mixed race so, you know, whatever. I don't like that. But I do like that they're learning, you know,

not to be racist. I mean, it's good that they're learning about the white supremacist patriarchy, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Whatever.

All right. Let the record show that all the men are just rolling their eyes. Let the record show that all the straight white men at the table just rolled their eyes at me.

We'll just give you before we go, you have two minutes. What is the patriarchy again? I'm not even indulging you. You had Lauren Duke on for a whole episode last week. Try to shut her up. Just ask her to...

Do you know what the patriarchy is, Steve? Humanity? Don't be so dismissive. I do think you raised an interesting point, though. White women. Really, about how things are taking a stand now. Even back to the Louis case that you asked Dan about. Did you think about what kind of a decision is that opening for him?

And that is kind of taking a stand, even if you weren't even thinking about it, isn't it? Well, no. I think taking a stand requires a consciousness that you're taking a stand. If I knew that my career would suffer for it, and I did it anyway, that's taking a stand. I didn't think that would be the case. If I thought that would be the case, and regrettably, I would have declined the offer. If I thought it would have a big impact on my career.

A negative one, that is. So let's ask, okay, so this is good. So there was that story that Harvey Weinstein came into some comedy, some performance. Yeah.

You know this story, Joe? Yes. What's the story? He came into a comedy show. It was a bringer show. And no one really said anything that he was there and one of the comedians said, well, if you're not going to see... A bringer show is where the comedian has to bring people

to watch. Kelly Bachman. So she started ripping him in the show. I wasn't there. What did she say? I don't know. She said that she's going to address the monster in the room and that she didn't realize that comics needed to travel with mace and a rape whistle. So what do you guys think about that?

I guess they booed her, right? Didn't they boo her? Well, she did get booed. I do think it's important to note that she is also a rape survivor and used to do a comedy show comprised of people who have been victims of rape. So she was totally, I mean... Is that an Eagles song?

Oh, no, it's Victim of Love. Victim of Rape, I do not think is an Eagles song. What happened with that? So what do you think about that, Joel? What do I think about, in what respect? Calling out Harvey Weinstein? What do you think about what what respect? Calling out Harvey Weinstein.

What do you think about what she did? You know, I do crowd work when I don't like someone in the crowd. So I think that she was kind of well... I'm not going to question her choice to call out Harvey Weinstein if she wants to. At the same time,

it's like he's at a comedy show that might not be the smartest decision on his part what the hell was he doing there? he needs to laugh I've been pretty desperate to have people go to my Brigger shows when I was doing Brigger shows

and I don't know if I would have called Harvey Weinstein I think you open yourself up when you go to a comedy show. It's like, you know that you might get called out. Your question is, was that good?

Just, as a comedian, was that a good thing for her to do for her, by what, under what standard? For her, for her professional career?

No, for as a societal event, like, all right, you know, because I don't, I don't, I'm,

I prefer that she hadn't done that. And not because I have any sympathy, obviously, for Harvey Weinstein, who is most likely, allegedly, the monster. Why isn't he in jail?

Because he's awaiting trial. The monster that, Because Perry L, we do have courts and due process, even for people that... The patriarchy is very uptight about these things. I don't know how great it was for the show, but I don't want to go around and say,

why are people mad at me for what I say on stage, and then get mad at another comedian for... It's great that she called him out. It's totally legit at a comedy show. You sit in the front row at a comedy show, you know the comics might... This is what I think. The...

What happens, and this happens with everything, is that we're breaking down that line and now the next comedian is going to look for the next reason

that they can... Essentially, Shanghai, you know... What's the word when you take it and, you know. Hijack? Hijack the show from a comedy show into them expressing righteous, absolutely righteous indignation or probably most likely righteous indignation at somebody they don't like and this will become a kind of acceptance and very quickly

is going to go over the line. So let's say I see someone in the audience wearing a Farrakhan t-shirt. Don't want to yell at that guy? I don't know. I mean, again, I know. I mean, I'm certainly justified, right? Well, you know, again, it's a matter of...

He said the things about Hitler and the Jews. And I think that if you're on stage as a comic, I mean, that's something that happens regularly at shows. You have the right to say whatever you want, but it creates an awkward situation in the show. Well, so does allegedly raping. And so it's like being in a room with a fucking rapist. Well, nobody else knew that except the girl on stage.

No, no, they probably knew. I mean, everybody knew that Harvey Weinstein was there. Look, I mean, again, it's a matter of, like everything else, at a certain point, at a certain extreme point, the rules change. And maybe Harvey is such an extreme case. Well, that's what I hope. I hope it doesn't spread. I don't think it's going to then spread because a guy has a Farrakhan shirt.

Although if you had a Mets shirt on and you're a huge Yankee fan. My problem isn't that she did that. I think she was well justified. My problem is when comedians and their jokes aren't supposed to be funny anymore. It's supposed to make a point. She was pretty justified in being upset.

We had waitresses who were coming to work during the whole Louis C.K. thing wearing Comedy Cell T-shirts who got attacked on the subway. Not physically attacked, like people started yelling at them. Comedy Cell T-shirts. Comedy Cell T-shirts. What did I say? Louis C.K. T-shirts.

I think you said Comedy Cell T-shirts. To me, this is all part and parcel of the same kind of liberation that people have had about just going public. Well, maybe it's different, maybe it isn't, but I'm concerned about moving it out there. I'm not concerned about Harvey Weinstein. I'm not, you know, fine with me that he got it. But I think that we're just normalizing this and actually applauding it.

Oh, good that you showed everybody how you felt. And, you know, if Harvey Weinstein came into the olive tree, if Yasser Arafat came into the olive tree, or the ambassador to Iran, how would I be received if the ambassador to Iran came in here, the president of Iran, and I started screaming at him? Abadumadimajoo? No, certainly.

Abadabajoo. No, but think about it. Is he still the guy? Is he still the president? Would I be less justified in yelling at the president of Iran than yelling at Harvey Weinstein? You're taking it. People look at me like I'm the crazy person when I start screaming at the guy. You're changing the context. No, I'm not.

You are. Screaming at somebody across a crowded restaurant is very different. Or in a comedy show. If the president of Iran came to the comedy show, would I want the comedians to all start to take their wax at him? Why are you letting the president of Iran come to a comedy show? Because... I mean, is there like a line of people who aren't welcome?

I'm going to tell you the answer. The answer is because... Not if they're paying for a drink. The cure is worse than the disease And there is something to be said For just sucking certain things up In the furtherance of having a civil society And understanding that you suck a little bit up

In order to have the much bigger benefit. I agree with that. And that's what worries me. We're getting to a point now with call-out culture where it's just become applauded and makes you a hero to try to humiliate people. And if you have perfect aim and you're a sniper and you hit Harvey Weinstein and he deserved it, great. But that's not the way it's going to be. Sooner or later, the wrong people are going to get hit. When you're a performer on stage,

do you find it pretentious that she has to make a moral stand at that moment? Given the extreme nature of Harvey Weinstein and the fact that she was a rape victim, I think this was an extreme situation. I don't see

it necessarily as a harbinger of things to come in the comedy world. By the way. From a strictly comedic standpoint, I don't think it was the comedically best option. But, you know, as I said, it's an extreme. You have Harvey Weinstein there. There's no more extreme. Yeah, it's not like people call them Democrats libtards and Republicans are racist or whatever.

It's much more extreme than that. I know what you mean, because I think that we need more civility, and there's so much hyperbole, and this person's awful because they think this, but this is such an extreme thing. I can't put the two together. You know, it is an extreme thing.

However, it's really true that he's presumed innocent. It's really true. Oh, for the love of God. No, no, no, no. It truly is true. For you who thinks that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered...

Where's Jim Norton? By some outlandish story, then you should be ready to believe that someone presumed innocent might not have done what it is they said. Now, I'm not saying he's innocent. God forbid I'm not saying that. I'm just saying. Okay, well, then you're not saying that. I'm saying that it's. So you don't think he's innocent either.

On the whole, if I had to choose how we should behave, we'll be much better off all accepting the kind of fiction that, yes, everybody's presumed innocent. And we will just wait until they're convicted and then they'll get their punishment. And in the meantime, we'll just go about our business because once we cross that line, you may think they're guilty. You might think, like, who's going to decide the case as well? Well, again, this is an extreme example. Yeah, but it'll get less and less extreme. You'll see.

Probably already is less and less extreme. That could be true. Yeah. It's hard for me to judge her for that. I mean, sure. I'm not trying to judge her.

I'm trying to judge the action. She's a victim as much as she is a victim. She's also living in this society where that's the way it's going. You're right. And I don't know her. You guys should read the New York Times piece.

Was it Pence who went to see Hamilton and they called him out? If Harvey came to the cellar, you would certainly let him in, I'm guessing. No way. We'd be sold out. What if he saw Weinstein on the... Hi, good night, everybody. There's no fucking way. No, you would let him.

No. Would you let him answer and not answer for him? No. You would let him in? You just said that we'd be better off as a society. Yes, but it won't cop his check. I would try to get him not to come in, though. Thank you.

Because you also wouldn't tell the comedians not to what to say. I would ask comedians to not just let it go. I would ask them. It's such a fucking nightmare situation. It is, yeah. Because I'm reacting

whatever I think how it should be. I have to also be cognizant of how it is and know what is going to happen to my business if this dude walks in there. And I don't want that mess, you know. What about like morally, ethically? Don't you just not want him here? Yes, but morally, ethically, as I said, I don't want somebody with a Farrakhan t-shirt. I don't want somebody in the government of Iran. I don't need to pass morally.

You know that Godwin's Law? Everything always descends to Hitler in the end. Fine. Would you let Hitler in here? Would I let Hitler in here? I don't know. How about a guy wearing a KKK outfit on Halloween? There are impossibles. Well, they don't let costume people in on Halloween. I don't think you allow costumes here on Halloween, do you? If I say I would let Hitler in.

You wouldn't let Hitler in. I don't believe that you would let Weinstein in either. I really don't. I know. Would you be cord. I know what you mean. Would you be cordial to Hitler when you were telling him to leave? Would you let the comics fuck with him from the stage? Or would you also tell them to let that slide? All right.

All right. Look, everybody has their... Weinstein, stay away from the comedy. It's all you. Fuck. There we go. That would be a great show for Dan to tell his N-word stuff because that wouldn't be the story of the news.

But, you know, there's other people. What about Mike Tyson? Well, there you go. After you bring Hitler in, I don't know, but Mike Tyson is a rapist. That's right. What about Bill Clinton? Nobody would expect me to keep Bill Clinton out, right?

Tough to find that line, you're right Didn't Bill Clinton do the same thing that Harvey Weinstein is accused of And didn't he do it about as credibly accused of it? Perrielle? I just spoke to One of Monica Lewinsky's Childhood best friends Juanita Broderick

Ronan Farrow said the same thing recently about Bill Clinton. What about Woody Allen? No, what I'm saying is that I kind of conceded too easily because it's true. Bill Clinton is accused of the very same thing as Harvey Weinstein. Very similar stories, just as credibly, and nobody would expect me to keep Bill Clinton out.

So what the fuck? That's a good point. How about O'Reilly? O'Reilly is not accused of any crimes. Right? Am I wrong? I don't know. I'm thinking about it. You have to pin me into these fucking corners.

I'm thinking about it. That's what happens in the world now. It's never gone. Whatever you say right now, it will be out there forever. I'm editing half of this episode. And that really is an example of my point. I know. It's very much going to make it up as you go along.

And you're going to get the wrong person and the right person. It's like, you know, and that's on one side. The other side is it just saves the side of, you know, we hate this shit. But it's just not done. We just let it go. In her defense and in our defense, like, we're thinking of this as we go in the moment without having contemplated. She just went up to do a comedy set. And she made a snap decision.

So I don't know. It's pretty... I really don't mean to. No, I don't think you are. I really don't mean to. I can see why she lost her temper or lost her composure. She didn't lose her temper at all. She was extraordinarily composed.

I watched the video. Okay, but you're saying part of the reason we should be forgiving her is because she was a survivor of rape as if she was reacting emotionally. I mean, I think she was reacting emotionally, but I think she was incredibly composed and I think it was totally appropriate.

Oh, I didn't know she was a survivor of rape. I don't know that that matters, though. I feel like anybody could have gone up there. Any comic could have done that. Like, I think she happens to be a survivor of rape, but I would like to think that anybody would have pointed out the elephant in the room. What was the tone of the room when she was doing it? Complicated.

I would worry that I might start a riot. I would think of that. The issue is complicated. It was complicated. There's this guy, Sullivan. Is that his name? It was the dorm whatever the word is in Harvard.

In R.A.? Yeah, or something like that. He was a very famous criminal defense attorney who had defended Weinstein in some way and they fired him from like that but he was a very famous criminal defense attorney who had defended Weinstein in some way and they fired him from his post at Harvard at the dorm because they couldn't tolerate

that he had been on the defense team of someone accused of rape so it all blends together into this direction that we're moving in and I think maybe I reflexively always want to push in the other direction. Like in a different time and place, I might say, yeah, it's fine to Weinstein

because, you know, we could tolerate, we could, that wouldn't, it wasn't part of the problem of what was going on everywhere we look. But I think the direction we're going now, we need to push back in the other direction. The pendulum needs to swing back in the other direction. I would like if the pendulum swung back and that guy didn't get fired for just believing in everyone deserves a defense.

But yeah, I see your point. Yeah. It's a tough one. And Bill Clinton complicates everything. Alright. Well, I thought there was a good episode, everybody. You know, I rate the episodes from time to time.

I think it's only going to end up being about 20 minutes, though. Well, no. Well, if he has... Oh, you're not cutting anything out. I don't know what to believe. Did she really mean the American Senator?

First of all, she's not the editor. She doesn't edit this. She can ask Lou to edit this. No, there's nothing here to be cut out. Just like we told Lauren Duca, we do it live to tape. Unless somebody says the F word or the N word. The F word? Oh, you mean the gay epithet?

Or Fredo. I meant Fredo. If somebody says the F word or the N word, we cut it out. Okay, so please follow us at livefromthetable on Instagram. And you can send us emails at podcast.com. Dan, Joe, Steve, plug your whereabouts. Plug away. At Dan Natterman on Twitter.

Twitter. Tweet, tweet, tweet, tweet. Steve Fabricant at yawn.com. At Joe Mackey. Thank you, guys. Good night.