The Commercial Break - TCB's Endless Day #4: Michael Ian Black

Episode Date: May 31, 2025

TCB Endless Day (5/12) - EP #762: Michale Ian Black's Links: ⁠Follow Michael on Instagram Michael's Website⁠ Listen to "Obscure" on Spotify It’s Mental Health Awareness month. If you or anyone you know needs help or is in crisis you can text HOME or HOLA to 741741 to reach a live volunteer Crisis Counselor. 24 hours a day. Don’t go through it alone! Watch EP #762 on YouTube! Text us or leave us a voicemail: [phone]TCB FOLLOW US: Instagram:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@thecommercialbreak⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Youtube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠youtube.com/thecommercialbreak⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@tcbpodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.tcbpodcast.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ CREDITS: Hosts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bryan Green⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ &⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Krissy Hoadley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer: Bryan Green Producer: Astrid B. Green Voice Over: Rachel McGrath TCBits / TCBits Music: Written, Voiced and Produced by Bryan Green To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Hot Honey McRispy is so back at McDonald's. With juicy 100% Canadian-raised seasoned chicken, shredded lettuce, crispy jalapenos, and that completely craveable hot honey sauce, it's a sweet heat repeat you don't want to miss. Get your Hot Honey McRispy today. Available for a limited time, only at McDonald's. On this episode of the Commercial Break, I once dated a guy who looked like our next guest. But he didn't have the fame, intelligence, money, or awesome hair. So I dumped him and got a pit bull.

And a house. Anyway, Michael Ian Black is the next person to grace this birthday bash. Michael is a familiar face to anyone who knows comedy. With hundreds of books, TV, and movie credits to his name, he's a multi-talented artist. Unlike one podcaster we know. Looking straight at you, Brian,

pointing my finger directly in your face. Yeah. However, if wet, hot American Summer isn't at the top of your Why I Like Michael list, I don't even want to know you. You can read his articles on The Daily Beast, watch him on Have I Got News for you, or go back and watch Wet Hot American Summer. Again, and again, sorry. Links in show notes. He joins us next as TCB's Endless Day rolls on. That episode starts now. The next episode of the commercial break starts now. And our Endless Day rolls on. Michael Ian Black joining us now from Las Vegas, baby.

Are you a good poker player? Are you a good poker player? A good poker player? Could you win money? I'm an enthusiastic poker player. There you go. That's the difference. What it takes. Yes. Do you have my general rule when I go to Las? I have two rules when I go to Las Vegas.

Number one, never stay more than two days. That way you don't need a hotel room. Number two, number two is that you have that money. There it is. Once it's gone, it's gone and that's it. And that way you don't get yourself into all kinds of trouble. Do you have rules like that? My rules are similar.

I never stay longer than several days past when I should have left. Fair enough. And the money in my pocket, any money that I bring to Las Vegas, that is my budget. Once that's gone, I have to figure out how to get more money without my wife finding out. Very good. Hey, listen, that is, yes, I have a separate PayPal account is what I do

and that PayPal account, I just squirrel away a little bit here and there and that's my fun money. So when I go to Vegas, I tell my wife, I say, I'm gonna spend $500 and then I have an extra 500 in the PayPal account. It's all gone before I even leave the airport. I was telling a story about how,

last time I went to Las Vegas for a conference, there were two guys on the airplane, and they were literally gambling on their cell phone, like, you know, online, and watching the football game live on TV, and then they didn't even make it out of the airport they were at the slot machines as we were all leaving yeah they were ready to go they were just like they couldn't they couldn't handle it are you that enthusiastic about poker or is this just something once in a blue moon you show up and you place of hands

uh somewhere in between I definitely fair enough I definitely, like if there was poker at the airport, I promise you I would still leave the airport. But you would probably play a hand. I might, I might, I might play 12 hours, but no more than that. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have, you ever won a lot of money? I'm a regular poker player.

I play anywhere from once a week to every couple of weeks when I'm home in Spain. Okay. So you must, so you must know what you're doing. That's the thing that scares me about the poker tables is though I know how to play poker. But I play, I've played poker like incredibly drunk with my friends, right?

And if I, if I pony up and get serious with the big boys, I feel like I'm instant, they're going to know who I am. Right? They're going to, I'm a mark. And I know it's all about the cards, but. I would suggest to you, let's go back to your original statement, which was, I know how to play poker. Yes.

I would suggest to you, you do not. Fair enough, there you go. I think you're right about that. I don't think I know how to play poker. I think I'm scared of poker. You know the rules, I think you know the rules. I do. Yeah. But I don't know how to play poker. I think I'm scared of poker. I think you do the rules. I do. Yeah.

But I don't know how to play because anytime I've played with any people who actually know what the fuck they're doing, I get chewed up. I get chewed alive. Because I don't have a good poker face. I tend not to put my cards face down. You know, I put them face up.

That's a big boner move. Wouldn't you rather have an attractive face than a good poker face? Yes. While the boys were playing poker, I was stealing their girlfriends. And that's, and it worked. So in that way, I do have a poker face.

Right, right. Yes, there you go. So Michael, you, we've known you for a long time, known you through the screen for a long time. You started in our hearts and in our heads. I think the, is the state your like first like breakthrough, hey, this is it, or is it what how to American summer? I can't remember which one came first.

The state was a sketch troop, which I am still a member. We started in college, my freshman year of college. So that is the first thing that I ever. And that was on MTV and that was of my time. I loved it. I loved it. I thought it was on MTV. And that was of my time. I loved it. I thought it was very brilliant. And how do you get a show?

Did MTV come to you? Or did some producer come to you? Or do you pitch them, hey, listen, this is? Because you're a freshman in college. Then you get a dream job on MTV. Well, by the time we did the TV show, we had all graduated college. OK.

The group started in college. And then right after college, we had the TV show. The group started in college and then right after college, we had the TV show. How did it happen? It's sort of a long story, but it basically comes down to MTV needed, they were just getting into original programming. And so what they needed was a bunch of teenagers

to work practically for free. I think that's still their business model. a bunch of teenagers to work practically for free. Ah, makes sense. I think that's still their business model. Mike Lee and Lex as I do it. Well, I mean, you get a chance to be on it. I think that every improv troop, you know, ever probably has this vision that this is what we want to have. I'm going to be on Saturday Night Live on Wednesday.

Well, that's so funny because that was exactly our vision. We're in college. We're spending every available moment rehearsing like sketches that we're gonna perform maybe twice in front of a bunch of sophomores. But we're so devoted to it. And we're thinking to ourselves, well, we're gonna make a career out of this. How stupid do you have to be to think to yourself, my college sketch group is gonna have go on to fame and fortune? I mean, how stupid is that?

But that's what we did. I mean, minus the fame and the fortune, but. But, it's turned out okay for you, I think. I gotta imagine, okay, so like you literally, like pouring your heart into this and I can see, because I was a kid once in a band, you know, thinking this is it. Same exact thing.

Yeah, I mean, I'm the next Eddie Vedder, you know, I'm practicing these songs like they're, you know, Led Zeppelin's second album, right? And everyone's gonna know these words and blah, blah, blah. But the truth is, is that like almost every other band ever, I played to 16 people one time in a club where the sound guy was asleep or high on cocaine. And I'm never again gonna play these songs ever.

No one cares. But you guys kind of realized the dream. You realized the dream on MTV where you, little did you know you'd be part of the downfall of music television as they went into all original programming and no more videos. But it was when they made that turn. Don't make me the Mike Lawler of this story.

Mike Lawler. Yeah. Yeah. I gotta imagine that moment for you is like, wow, holy shit. We just closed a deal with MTV. We're going to be on MTV. Yeah. It was.

Here's the thing. It's a double-edged sword. No, I mean, yes, we were all incredibly excited. At the same time, we were also so incredibly arrogant. We were like, well, of course, they're giving us our due. 21, 22, we're just idiots. We were just assholes. So we had the worst attitude about the whole thing. We were excited and we loved the opportunity, but we were also such entitled dickheads about it.

Did you guys run around town just thumbing your nose at the other improv comedy groups? Oh yeah. Did you get a brand new Chevy and just ride around town? After MTV paid you nothing for this, by the way. your nose at the other improv comedy groups and yeah yeah yeah did you get a brand new Chevy and just ride around town and well after MTV paid you nothing for this by the way. When I say they wanted people young people to work for free. Literally? It wasn't literal but I'll give you I'll tell you exactly how much we were making. So we were the writers on the show, we were the

performers on the show, we directed the show, Holy shit. We edited the show to a degree, individuals in the group. And obviously we created the show. And I was taking home $400 a week. Wow. What? You had a television show on MTV and you were taking home $400 a week and you had four different credits on that show?

Wow, they weren't joking when they said work for free. Holy shit. Here I thought those teen moms were making a bunch of money and I don't think they're making anything. That's why they're selling baby clothes on the side. Right. Even though the 400 was my take home. Oh yeah.

Yeah, that's crazy. But then you specifically go on to kind of, you know, this is like a springboard for you to then come into our heads and our hearts. Wet Hot American Summer. I'm sure that everybody and their mother, this is like, because it's such a great, great movie. So many great lines, so many great moments in the movie. It's just one of those quotable level, and everything about it is great. Did you guys realize that magic?

Do you have like magic on set when, do you realize there's something magical going on here? We're making a really great, funny movie? Yes and no. Here's the way I experienced it. I knew, so Michael Showalter and David Wayne, who were in the state, the sketch group, they wrote the film and David directed it and then all of us, so many of us were in it along with so many other cool people.

And I remember, I have a very specific memory of being on set and David and Michael expressing the opinion that they had finally figured out how to make something mainstream America was going to love. And I remember thinking, you're out of your goddamn, this thing is going to, this thing is not going to do well in the theaters. Yeah. But, but I did believe that it would find a life after its theatrical release, because I did think people of a certain ilk would find it and really like it.

And that has proven to be the case. Absolutely. Although it ended up being, I think, way more popular and enduring than any of us would have imagined. Yeah, it's kind of one of those movies that if you watched it the first time and you loved it, it's like, I would say, cult favorite, right? But it's like a little, little cult niche. Yeah, you're going to keep watching. But then everybody else I knew also felt the same way. So I was like, well, it's not that culty. Like everybody else I know loves this movie too.

You knew some awesome people, bro. I did. Well, a girl that I was dating introduced me to the movie and instantly I was like, I love this girl and then I love this movie and now I can't wait for the next one to come out. And do you get recognized on the street? I'm sure they do.

They must come up to you and say, oh my God. What's the one line that you wish, or the one thing that you've said in any of your career that people come up to you and they say it back to you and you're like, I wish you would never say that again. I mean, I'm sure that there's a bit of appreciation. You are wildly overestimating my fame. I would say hi to you if I saw you.

Okay, that's one. Yeah. Maybe I wouldn't quote anything to you, but I'm not a... I don't, thank God I don't have like some famous catchphrase, because that would be terrible. What you talking about, Willis? Yeah, I don't, I don't have that. And I'm grateful I don't have that.

So generally when people come up, they're, they're, they're, they say things like, I loved you on Kids in the Hall. You're right. Oh my God, this is... Michael, okay, let's talk. Okay. We're just gonna be serious. I know we're just meeting each other, but let's pretend like we've known each other for years

and we're friends, so don't take offense to this. So Chrissy and I are having a conversation with a friend about two weeks ago and we say, they're asking us about TCB's Endless Day. And we say, yeah, we us about TCB's Endless Day and we say, yeah, we're interviewing this person and that person and Michael Ian Black, to which they respond, I love Michael Ian Black. He was great in Kids in the Hall, one of my favorite shows. And I said, you are a hundred percent wrong that Michael Ian Black was ever in the Kids in the Hall.

And they demanded, they commanded the room. They said, no, no, no, no. He's my favorite character on Kids in the Hall. they demanded, they commanded the room. They said, no, no, no, no. He's my favorite character on Kids in the Hall. And I Googled it and I found at least two instances where Google itself has wrongly connected you to Kids in the Hall. It is the show I am the most recognized for. I love that. No joke.

That's crazy. Fully,ved you on Kids in the Hall. Sometimes I get Loved You on MADtv. Sometimes I get Loved You on Saturday Night Live. But most of the time, it's Kids in the Hall and never is it The State, which is the actual show. Yeah. Because they were both on around the same time. All on the same time.

And here's the thing. My vibe, my sort thing, my vibe, my sort of soft Canadian vibe, fits very well with the kids in the hall. Fair enough. So I understand why people might think that, but, and what's weird is nobody else in the state gets mistaken for being in kids in the hall.

I'm the only one. That is so crazy. I love it. That is so crazy. That is so crazy that we had the same interaction happen with someone we were talking to and they were pretty sure that you weren't kids in the hall. And I said, no. It's got to the point where I believe I was in kids in the hall. Yeah.

They come up to me and they say, they let me in kids in the hall. I say, thank you so much. Yeah, I would too. Thank you so much. Call Netflix and ask for that, you know, kids in the hall reunion check cash. Was it Netflix that they were on? I think that kids in the hall. Yeah, Amazon.

By the way, in the years since, we've all become very good friends. Well, I wouldn't say very good friends, but friendly with the kids in the hall. Lovely guys. Then why wouldn't there be like a kids in the hall state mashup, like a mix up? Oh, really?

We've talked about doing a Kids in the Hall, like a monster, monsters of sketch tour. Oh my God, that would be great. It would be great. That would be amazing. But it's hard. There's five of them and 11 of us. So you can watch out that pie slices.

Yeah. It doesn't, the math isn't math-ing, like just getting hotel rooms with 22 people having to split it equally is probably very difficult. It's very hard to make money doing live. And so, you know, when five guys in a band can't make it work and they're selling 5,000 seat arenas, I can only imagine when it's 22 people

trying to split the pie. And schedules. And schedules, yeah. Schedules, wives, children, all that stuff. Do you miss, like, do you still do on occasion live stuff? Do you go out there and you're with the state still? So I'm sure you guys toward last last year, maybe a year and a half ago, we toured when showbiz was on strike, we because we've been talking about touring forever. And so when Chobas was on strike, we sort of said, Oh, now's a perfect

time. So we booked a tour, we did, I don't know, maybe a dozen cities all over the country, had a great time. It was nice reconnecting with everybody and working with everybody in the same room at the same time again. So that was awesome. Yeah. So you guys played 12 cities and did you love like, that's where you started. That's kind of the juice. That's where the adrenaline is. That's where the magic happens. That's where God lives, whatever you want to say. Was that, did you love that? Did you want to go do that again? I loved it because for the reasons you said, and because as I indicated earlier, you know, when we were in our twenties, we were dickheads. And that included being dickheads to each other.

We weren't like, you know, we weren't always fighting or whatever, but there was always just things and egos and- Someone bruised, yeah. Someone bulbing, someone bruised. I get it. Exactly. It's a family.

For me, and I think for a lot of us who did the tour, we felt like this is a chance to kind of right some wrongs. Sort of reconnect as adults and behave like a ghost, be emotionally mature and just slightly sweeten the taste of that experience in our mouths. Not that it was ever bad, but that it just, it felt like a resolution. That's what was important to me about it. Yeah.

Yeah. You, um, was it cathartic? What was the final question? Are you the only one allowed to talk on this podcast? Yes, I am. I'm the emotional support. She's the emotional support. She's the emotional support.

It's not, I just want to understand. If we had a dollar for every time someone said this. I don't want to interrupt. Do you have a question, Chrissy? I know. If we had a dollar for every time someone said that in the comments section on the reviews. Let me give you a little background on the commercial break. Brian started a podcast and invited his friend to come on

just so I had someone to listen to. And five years later in 800 hours and 800,000 episodes, here we are. And I'm still- You guys are doing a great job. Thank you very much. Yes, I'm enjoying this very much. Michael Ian Black is probably the first guest

who's pointed this out. But if you have a question to ask, hit me. Is it weird? I think it's weird. Is it weird to you? You've got a great co-host. Oh my God, you don't even know. Who would be able to do nothing?

You don't even know. Without her, this show doesn't fly. It doesn't go anywhere. And here's the crazy part. While I do 90% of the yapping on this show, because I just can't stop talking, Chrissy gets 90% of the accolades. People love Chrissy so much more than they love me,

and I accept that as my fate, right? I do the yapping. I feel exactly the same about Chrissy. Thank you. It's wonderful. Less is more. Wow, you have a friend in Michael Ian Black. Well, now you have to come up with a question for her.

Now I'm very like, now I'm nervous. How's she gonna come up with a question? She thought you were in Kids in the Hall too. I was. You were. You were, at this point you were. How did you get to Savannah, Georgia? Yeah, we're in Atlanta.

Oh, you are? Yeah. The wife and I had been living in the wilds of Connecticut How did you get to Savannah, Georgia? Yeah, we're in Atlanta. Oh, you are? Yeah. The wife and I had been living in the wilds of Connecticut for the previous 20 something years. And during the pandemic, we just got it into our heads, like so many people did, that life is short, let's have adventures.

And so we were sort of casting around for the next adventure and turned out to be Savannah, Georgia. So we've been there for about four years. And other than the like stultifying heat and hordes of cockroaches, it's been a great experience. Oh God, those palmetto bugs, cockroaches is what they should be called. Yeah, exactly.

They sometimes said palmetto bugs, but that gives them a way too friendly name. Yeah, me too. I'm not gonna honor, I'm gonna dead said palmetto bugs, but that gives them a way too friendly name. Yeah, me too. I'm not going to honor, I'm going to dead name palmetto bugs. Yes. I hate those things. I can't think about it. You know, we went to, my daughter and I had the daddy daughter day and we went to go see the animal, like the guy, like a zoologist brought animals. One of the animals he brought was the hissing cockroach, the world's largest cockroach. And he said, oh, you can pet them.

And I said, oh, I have such a fear of those things, I hate them. But he also explained that of all the 4,500 different types of cockroaches, this is the cleanest one, they don't carry the kind of germs that you normally associate with the cockroach. They're very clean, they live in the jungle. I said, eh, you know, not for me still.

And he said, it's the ones that you have in your house that are the dirtiest and nastiest and the ones that carry the disease. And I thought, well, I got a bunch of them in my house. So I can only imagine Savannah down on the coast that that's probably, oh, what's that? I don't know. That was like, that was me. Oh, okay.

Thought it was your sound bowl, Brian. Do you got, so my sound bowl? You have taken this, this job with a daily beast. A couple of years ago, I remember reading an article and I thought that's well written and funny, but you never look at the art, you know, you never look at who the author is. And then I look at the author, I go, it's Mike Lee and Black.

It's the same guy that I know from television. How did you get that gig? I think you're really good. I think your writing is really good. I think it's poignant. I think it's needed. I think you say the right things. the right time. I love that organization. Yeah. That's very kind of you. Well, I had previously written several books.

Yeah, you're an author too. Both for adults and for the wee ones. And I have been very vocal on social media about my feelings about this and that. And then I was unemployed, as I so often am. The other beast often am approached me and said hey do you want to do something for the election and I said well why not and so I started writing a weekly thing for them which has been kind of a nice outlet and it it just it makes my brain work in a slightly different way. Because I also publish almost every day on my own sub stack. But writing for like an actual organization has, I think, forced me to think a little bit more cogently about my writing and my writing process.

It's been a nice structure. Structure, yeah. A little muscle. Waiting for me is always... Want to say that again? A different muscle. Yeah, exactly. Aructure, yeah. A little muscle. A different muscle. Do you want to say that again? A different muscle. Yeah, exactly. That kind of flex.

Because, and thank you for segueing to the analogy, which I'm about to use, which is that writing for me is like going to the gym for some people. Like I just have to do it every day. Like I just have to get my reps in every day or I don't feel like I did something. You have spoken about, I believe you've written about kind of the scourge of what a lot of people refer to as toxic masculinity, this brand of, I think of it like this. I think of it like people are taking a boy or a man's natural inclination to feel like they are

warriors, protectors, people who can inflict violence to solve problems because that's kind of the way that genetically we're, you know, it's just the way we are. It's the difference between us and the female form. And they've taken that and they've weaponized it in a way against other groups, people, you know, who are less than, who don't have as much who are already picked on. They've weaponized it and they've pointed to other people and said, this is the reason why you can't be that. This is the reason.

So instead of being defenders and protectors, we're now offenders. And I don't know, we pick on the, it's like almost like pick on the weak because that's what we're bred to do. And this kind of repetitious bullshit that comes out of so many different corners of the internet and now mainstream media, quite frankly. Do you have, you have children, but I think they're both, they both? Do you have two children? Hmm. Are they both girls? No, okay. How do you how do you teach your son the kind of the rules of the road? What you do is you write a best selling book called a better man. A mostly serious letter to my son. Publish my son. Oh, forget it, I forgot who the publisher is already. Oh, what did you? Workman, workman, workman, publishing.

So I wrote a book, I wrote a whole book about it. And I try not to use the term toxic masculinity. Yeah, it's a weird one, yeah. Because I feel like, and it's not because of the word toxic exactly. It's because we don't have a model in our culture, to me, that expresses a kind of healthy masculinity. We don't, we don't even, I don't even think most of us could define what masculinity is. It is an amorphous trait of characteristics that people sort of foist on men and say, well, if you're a man, you do X or if you're a man, you do

Y. And they will say things like, be a man, as if you are not already. So I don't feel like we have a sense of healthy masculinity against which to label masculinity, which is toxic. And so masculinity as a whole, when we think of those traits that you just listed, we've now been conditioned to think of that as toxic. And I don't think it is. And it's clear you don't think it is. No, me, masculinity, I'll discuss masculinity the way I think women have been talking about femininity for the last 60 or 70 years. The women's rights movement, which began, you know, you could argue 200 years ago, but I'm just talking about modern women's rights movement, was predicated on the idea that

women, these delicate flowers who to this point had never lifted themselves from bed longer than cooking their man breakfast, that these people somehow also had the ability to go out in the workforce and to run for office if they want and to fulfill whatever dreams they had. And so in this burgeoning movement movement of women's rights, what happened is the notion of what femininity was expanded gradually. Now women were no longer just caretakers and help mates and raisers of children. They were lawyers and truck drivers and firefighters, and they were strong and they were brave and they were Wonder Woman. And we saw that women can be all of those things. And now we don't even think twice about it. But that's, but that that effort took arguably 200 years, but let's say 60 years. Men have

not invested that same those same time and resources into figuring out who we are. Men are protectors and defenders, but guess what? We're also caregivers. We're also hairdressers. We're also, you know, we also wanna look pretty sometimes and sometimes we wanna be macho as fuck. Like we just need to expand what it means to be a man in the same way that women expanded what it means to be a woman. the same way that women expanded what it means to be a woman.

We're all all of these things. We are all full spectrum human beings. And that's what I tell my kid. And that's what the message of the book was. And so when I think about masculinity or toxic masculinity, what I think about is people like, you know, the normal cast of characters, somebody like Andrew Tate, who is just a vile rapist.

Yes. But is being esteemed as this paradigm of masculinity because he's unabashedly a racist, a rapist and probably a racist. Yeah, probably. Yeah. I think that's a brilliant way of describing where we stand in our culture. And I think that the messages that are coming from all different corners of the universe and especially online and in podcasting and new media and YouTube and wherever,

Twitch and all this other stuff, puts our young men in a position where they are more isolated, more lonely, and have less ability to communicate how they're feeling, those feelings and thoughts, because that is looked upon as weak, or you're not, you know, you're not getting it, you're not part of this, you're not alpha, whatever you say. And that is becoming a disease in and of itself. That loneliness is a disease that is wreaking havoc on our culture. And we are becoming, those young men especially, are becoming more isolated. And I think they are more dangerous when they are more isolated

because anybody who is, it's like an animal, you put them in a cage and you lock them away and you say no communication, no ability to express, no ability to roam free and do your things and find your thing, then they're gonna become dangerous. They're gonna become angry and dangerous. And so I think this is a disease that we have got to, men have got to start communicating about and reaching out to the ones that are below us and the ones that are above us and saying,

you know, you can go to the gym and you can work out and you can beat the bag and you can have a cool car and you can get the hot chicks and all that stuff is cool, right? But you can also defend the weak. You can also step in when you right or wrong. You can also, you know, be open minded that not everybody and everything has to look exactly the same way as you, you can do those things and you need to have people around you that love you and you have to have the ability to express that, your fear and your pain and all that other stuff. And I think that that's, your way of putting it is brilliant. We have to expand the definition and either direction of what masculinity is or we're going to find ourselves in a real,

I mean, a society full of lonely men, you know, that's troublesome. That's troublesome. I think Professor Galloway, Prof. G, if you know who I'm talking about, talks about this a lot, and I think he's spot on. Yeah, because, but it's important to look at the whys and wherefores of how we arrived here. Because there was a time, not that long ago, when men's roles and women's roles were more clearly delineated, and that worked to the great advantage of men. That was entirely to men's benefit. And so what happened is, as the women's rights movement gained traction

and people recognized that, oh yeah, women actually are human beings. Women's started entering the workforce in greater and greater numbers. And that had, I mean, let's go even further back. They got the vote, okay? Then they started entering the workforce in greater and greater numbers.

Then the- Then we got a checking account. Oh, I didn't know that was legal. You can do that? Yeah. Geez, I'm gonna have to look into that. I'm actually not sure that's legal. Yeah, her husband is progressive.

He might be breaking laws. I don't like that. And so women started gaining autonomy and independence and then and then concurrent with that technology started changing. So we're we have moved out of the industrial revolution when men were sort of manning factories and sort of doing this this hard dirty work and we've moved into this sort of information age where the jobs that are now online and that people are really are that are making money and are prestigious tend to be collaborative jobs, creative jobs,

they tend to be jobs that require teamwork. These are jobs that that would traditionally have lived in a more feminine sphere and feminine space and women are excelling in them. Women are excelling in school and boys are falling further and further behind. And there are all kinds of complicated sociological reasons for why this is happening, but we have to look at sort of the root of it. And if we want to have a we want to have a society that's thriving, we actually need to implement these changes for men.

We need to make it, we need to give them a permission structure to say, hey, I'm really struggling here. We need to have them not be afraid to walk into the gas station and say, hey, I'm lost, can you help me? Right. We need all of that for very practical reasons. The economy now runs on those kinds of jobs, runs on cooperation, creativity, collaboration. If you want to have

just a functioning society, men need to step up and figure out how to be their full selves. It just has to happen. And the problem is, that has been cast among reactionary voices as feminizing the culture. And the worst thing you could say to a man or a young man who was caught in this kind of moment of indecision and not knowing who he is, is to say, oh, yeah, you're being a girl, you know, you're acting like a bro. And that's going to shut him off entirely. And so now you had these legions of young, angry white men listening to Jordan Peterson

and Joe Rogan and all these other like dude bros who are telling them no all you got to do is take ivermectin and work out three times a day and chicks are gonna love you you know it's like it's this bizarre caveman mentality but what it does is it offers a promise to men and it's an easy promise to men. Do these things, eat red meat, work out, listen to Andrew Tate, you know? Get a cool haircut and all your problems will be solved. Yes. And it's just, it's superficial and it's dangerous.

I totally agree with you. Superficial is dangerous. Instead of expanding the way that we think about masculinity, they are narrowing the definition. We're constricting it because it makes it easy. It makes it so easy. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's like, you know, it's like, you know, no knock on it on any particular religion, but it's like promising nine virgins, right? And it's just on the other side and the grass is greener and all you got to do is do these three things to

get there and listen to this and do that. And it's just, it's dangerous. And you know, if you want to listen to Rogan, okay, listen to Rogan, but don't take that as, as chapter and verse. There are lots of other voices out there and there's lots of other ways to express yourself than just eating red meat and working out. Do those things. I like Rogan. Like there are, there's plenty of episodes of Rogan work. I agree. out, do those things. I like Rogan. Like there are there's plenty of episodes of Rogan work. I agree. You know, I agree. I don't like Andrew Tate, but I like Rogan, right? And at moments, I like Rogan. And there are some things that he said where I'm like, Whoa, bro. And you know, listen, but it takes all kinds. That's that's actually my point. It's a mistake. All kinds. It takes all kinds of men. And by the way, the kind of man you are today might be different than the kind of man you are tomorrow or in an hour from now. And not only is that okay, it's great. Like we are all multifaceted human beings, we don't have to react to stimulus in one way. Because because traditionally, men are really only allowed to express two things, silence and anger.

Everything gets sort of funneled through those. That's true. Those little reactions. And why? We don't have to be that way. Like, you know, like, look at me. I'm hilarious. Yes, you are. You are. And by the way, hilarious, and you've kept your baby good looks all the time. I have to agree. You look almost no different than you did when you were on this thing. Maybe it's the Vegas sun.

What is it? I have had so much work done. Did you? Wow. What is your favorite? Is it the lip filler? Is it the Brazilian butt lift? What is the secret?

Here's what I do. I fly down to Brazil and I say, just give me the smorgasbord. Four weeks later, I wake up looking gorgeous. Yeah? Hey, listen, a lot of people do that. Sometimes they wake up in the hospital and go, we had to take your Brazilian butt lift out. If you look at pictures of me from 30 years ago, I look much younger.

Well, you think you look much younger, but I think the way we look at ourselves is different. I realize that you are older, but I'm saying that you have that face, you have that kind of face. I think it's the Vegas sun, you know, that morning sun that is giving you that glow. It always says how good dry desert air is for this.

Exactly. You know what, well, it might be the savanna humidity. Let me tell you something, my wife, as much as she hates the heat, she loves that plumping savanna. Me too. Do you guys, do you live near the water? Don't tell me where you live. Do you live near the water? And don't tell me where you live. Do you live near the water in Savannah? I mean, everybody lives near the water in Savannah,

but do you live- Savannah's on a river, a river, and then 20 minutes away, you can be at the ocean. At Tybee, yeah. Tybee's beautiful, I love Tybee. I've been to Savannah many times, but not Tybee. Oh yeah, I love Savannah.

Yeah, Savannah's just a hop, skip, and a jump away. I don't remember some of the trips to Savannah, but I'm sure they were fun. I'm sure they were fun. It was a big place to go when I was a teenager in my early twenties. Oh yeah, I've done like the whole home tours and the ghost stuff.

Yes. Yeah, it was fun. For sure. You're on a brilliant CNN program called Have I Got News for You? And I'm gonna, let's just touch on this. The, as we're recording this today, not as it's being published, but as we're recording this today, the Republicans have now gutted or have passed a vote to advance the bill that will look to gut

health care for a good chunk of the people that really need it, let's put it that way. You know, agree or disagree on a lot of different points of minutiae, attitudes, moods, and ways to go about it. Gutting health care, taking away certain parts of public education, you know, decimating parts of the government that I think people will quickly figure out they need and use on a daily basis.

These are things that feel to me like easy ways for some people in the Republican Party to be heroes, but they aren't there. And I know you're very outspoken about this, both in your column and then when we join the call today. What can Democrats do? What can we do? What can Democrats do to kind of stop this onslaught of, I don't know, this onslaught of-

Yeah, you can say onslaught of shit. You can say tsunami of shit if you will. Tsunami of, it's just insanity is really what it is. I know, every day. And I know that most Republicans will agree they did not vote to have their, or someone they love, health care cut. No, no, no, no, no, no, you didn't look at the vote tally. That's exactly what they did. They literally voted to have their loved one's health care cut. Yeah, no, in fact, but you know,

I'm sure some of them are sitting around, right? You see all these videos, you know, like I saw the other day, a farmer, a dairy farmer was sitting there in the middle of her dairy farm where the cows were unmilked saying, I am going bankrupt. I will last another couple of weeks

because every single one of my employees has not showed up in two weeks. They got scared, they ran away, they went back home because they were either undocumented workers or workers who were in fear that they were going to get deported. They may have been going through the immigration process perfectly legally and they could still get landed up and thrown out. Absolutely. What? What can we do? So the question is what can Democrats do? Yeah. Or what can anybody do? What can we do?

I have an answer for you. Okay. Not a goddamn thing. Yeah, I know. I know. I know. It's we're truly in a in a in a corner where, listen, we don't get too political on this show, but I will say this, no matter who you voted for, if you cannot see right now that democracy, the very foundation upon which this country has existed for almost 250 years, is crumbling in front of our eyes, and every way that there is a guardrail is being demolished,

then you are not, your eyes are not open. You're not paying attention to what's going on. And if we get to vote in the next election, if we get to vote in the next election, we need to put guardrails on this. I agree with some things that Republicans do. I agree with some things Democrats do, but this is different.

This is an opportunity to stop a dictatorship from happening. And if we get to vote, I think people should really take a long hard look at their friends and their neighbors and all the things that are going on inside and outside of government and wonder if this is what they want for themselves and their children. Just to play devil's advocate for a second, because I mostly agree with you. But just to play devil's advocate for a second, because I mostly agree with you,

but just to play devil's advocate, everything you said is true, but I want you to consider on the other side, how many billions of dollars Trump is personally making. So- Yeah, that's true, that's true. It's a balance. It's a balance.

I do want Trump to make more billions of dollars. So in that, listen, if Trump doesn't get at least one more 747 before the end of his term, then I am not happy as a voter. That's all I got to say. And, you know, I think we all should agree that our president should be taking, you know, Qatari airplanes free of charge. That's just, where in the constitution does it say that's wrong?

You see, free of charge, but he's got to do the maintenance. That's just, well, we're in the Constitution doesn't say that's wrong. You see him free of charge, but he's, he's got to do the maintenance. That's true. He does have to do the maintenance. And that could cost the taxpayers a lot of different, a lot of money. Yeah. And I'm sure he'll find some way to make the taxpayers pay for it after he's out of office too. If he's ever out of office. That's the question. Right? That's the question. He's already up for his his third term. Who's your favorite guest

that you've had on the show? I know what you're going to say. Come on, Brian. Is it Mike Lawler? Do I want to say my favorite guest? Here's the thing. Congressman Mike Lawler from New York's 17th congressional district came on, had I got news for you.

Pleasant fella. Lauler from New York's 17th Congressional District came on, have I got news for you pleasant fella sat right next to me, did a funny Trump impersonation, and then lied to my face. Unbelievable. He said, I'm not going to vote for a single cut in benefits to Medicare or, or Medicaid. And so I said, so Mike, when the bill comes up that says there's going to be cuts to Medicare or Medicaid, you will vote. And then I pointed at him and he didn't say anything.

And I said, and you will vote. And he didn't say anything. And I said, Mike, you just said, you know, you're not going to vote. It cuts to benefits. Cuts to benefits. And I said, okay. And he gave me the impression, because he said it to my face,

that he would vote no for any bill that cuts benefits to Medicare and Medicaid. And then that next week, he voted to advance the bill that would cut $800 billion from Medicaid. So I made a little video, and I posted it online, saying, Mike Lawler, you lied to me, fuck it online saying Mike Lawler you lied to me Fuck you and Mike Lawler got very mad at me for that because I had called him a liar

well Yes, Mike Lawler turned around and voted to cut billions from Medicare and Medicaid so now I'm aggravated not only because he lied to me, but because he fully activated my Jewish guilt. I had somehow misrepresented him, or that I was being mean to him. And so all I can say, and from my heart, and I mean this with as much generosity as I can muster.

Fuck Mike Lawler. Fuck Mike Lawler. I think that's a good point on this interview. Michael Ian Black, you are welcome back anytime. Thanks. So nice to meet you. I hope that you win much money. Yeah, so nice to meet you.

Yeah, you too. I've always wanted to meet somebody from Kids in the Hall and now I can say that I have. I'm crushing your head. I'm crushing your head. I'm crushing your head. You gave me that one for free. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

That one, cause you guys, you guys are the best. I always thought of the state as like the edgier version of Kids in the Hall, if I'm just being honest. He's part of ourselves. Yeah. And Michaelian Black writes for the Daily Beast. He's on Have I Got News for You on CNN and Substack. And Michael Ian Black,

thank you for joining us on TCB's Endless Day. My pleasure. I hope you get to keep up the good. Oh, and he has, yeah, thank you. And he has many books. I will link all of them. I will link to this in the show notes on how you can buy those books.

Thank you, Michael Ian Black. We appreciate you joining us today. Yeah, good luck at the tables. Good luck at the tables. Bye guys. Bye. Thank you. It won't take long to tell you Neutral's ingredients.

Vodka, soda, natural flavors. So, what should we talk about? No sugar added? Neutral. Refreshingly simple. Hey, listen, I think we handled it well, but that was touch and go there for a second. Michael Ian Black called me out, and as he should have, but he also has to understand we're on episode number four of twelve, so... Yeah, it's a lot. Chrissy's just taking a rest.

Her brain is off right now. It's hard to talk when Brian's talking. It really is. It is. It's a delicate dance. It is a delicate dance, and I think you do really well. I think you do really well. But sometimes the guest episodes do get away from us a little bit.

Brian all of a sudden is just having a phone conversation with one other person. You're always so very excited. I do. I get very excited. I'm... Hey, listen. If it makes you feel any better, when I'm in a room full of Venezuelans, which is like six months a year I am the one who talks the least I know how you feel I never get a word in ever Ever ever ever ever Mike Lee and black what a gentleman and a scholar and a good poker player apparently Here's to winning Michael. I hope you're out in Vegas. Yeah

Yes, Mike Lee and black all the things, the Daily Beast. Have I Got News for you on CNN with our other good friend, Roy Jones. And yeah, he's got books, he's got movies, he's got television shows, he is not from Kids in the Hall. He's a renaissance man. He's a renaissance man. A renaissance man that's not from Kids in the Hall. He's a renaissance man. He's a renaissance man. A renaissance man that's not from Kids in the Hall. I just repeat that. That bears

repeated. Because you Google it and it says he's in Kids in the Hall. Even Google has it wrong. Anyway, okay. Alright, episode number four. Now in the book. TCB's Endless Day sponsored by our good friends at Five Hour Energy. Go to FiveHourEnergy.com for special flavors and occasions. They even have a hot sauce they make out of Five Hour Energy, believe it or not. Thank you to Five Hour Energy for bringing you the endless day with limited commercial interruptions.

You'll notice only one commercial inside. So there you go. 212-433-3TCB, call now, call now to talk to us at the commercial break on Instagram to see if we go live later on this afternoon at TCBpodcast.com for all the audio, all the video and your free TCB sticker. Okay, Chrissy, that one's in the books, but I love you. I love you.

Best to you. Best to you out there in the podcast universe until the top of the hour. Chrissy and I will say, we do say, and we must say, good bye! Thank you for watching!