The Compound and Friends - Josh Rings the Bell, Fifteen Year Changes, Bank Earnings, Internals Are Fine
Episode Date: October 13, 2026On this episode of What Are Your Thoughts, Downtown Josh Brown... and Michael Batnick celebrate 15 years of CNBC's Halftime Report and take a look at just how much the markets have changed since 2011. From the explosive growth of tech stocks and ETFs to the rise in millionaire households and retirement wealth, they break down the numbers behind an incredible 15-year run. Plus, big bank earnings, deteriorating market breadth and whether weak participation is actually a bullish signal, the selloff in consumer stocks, what seasonality tells us about the market's next move, and how to tell the difference between a great value opportunity and a value trap. This episode is sponsored by DBMF, the world’s largest managed futures ETF. Discover why DBMF’s liquid, uncorrelated, managed futures strategy could be what your Alts allocation is missing at: https://www.dbmf.com/WAYT Please take our 2026 audience survey HERE. Sign up for The Compound Newsletter and never miss out! Instagram: https://instagram.com/thecompoundnews Twitter: https://twitter.com/thecompoundnews LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-compound-media/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thecompoundnews Investing involves the risk of loss. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be or regarded as personalized investment advice or relied upon for investment decisions. Michael Batnick and Josh Brown are employees of Ritholtz Wealth Management and may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this video. All opinions expressed by them are solely their own opinion and do not reflect the opinion of Ritholtz Wealth Management. The Compound Media, Incorporated, an affiliate of Ritholtz Wealth Management, receives payment from various entities for advertisements in affiliated podcasts, blogs and emails. Inclusion of such advertisements does not constitute or imply endorsement, sponsorship or recommendation thereof, or any affiliation therewith, by the Content Creator or by Ritholtz Wealth Management or any of its employees. For additional advertisement disclaimers see here https://ritholtzwealth.com/advertising-disclaimers. Investments in securities involve the risk of loss. Any mention of a particular security and related performance data is not a recommendation to buy or sell that security. The information provided on this website (including any information that may be accessed through this website) is not directed at any investor or category of investors and is provided solely as general information. Obviously nothing on this channel should be considered as personalized financial advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any securities. See our disclosures here: https://ritholtzwealth.com/podcast-youtube-disclosures/ iMGP/DBi Disclosure:: The iMGP DBi Managed Futures Strategy ETF’s investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses must be considered carefully before investing. The statutory and summary prospectuses contain this and other important information about the investment company, it may be obtained by visiting: http://www.imgp.com/ . The Fund is distributed by ALPS Distributors, Inc. DBMF is the world’s largest managed futures ETF as of September 30, 2026 with $5.42 billion AUM. #stockmarket #investing #finance Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcript
Discussion (0)
Good afternoon, gangsters, gangstores,
compound nation, so excited to welcome everybody back.
We are live, it's 5 p.m. on a Tuesday, so you know what that means.
It's time for your favorite show.
What are your thoughts?
My name is downtown Josh Brown.
My co-host is Michael Batnik.
Michael say hi to everyone.
All right, hello.
That's the point.
All right.
Guys, we're an earnings season.
That snuck up on us.
Did it sneak up on us?
It always does.
It always does.
Every time.
Yeah, we're, I mean, we're, this is it.
Like, we had some, we had some big ones come today.
We hit some earnings last week.
And it's, it's on.
Like, I don't know what else to say.
So we get into all of that.
The banks reported today.
There's some stories there that I think are worth you guys paying attention to.
And we have a lot more to do.
Before we do so, I want to thank our sponsor,
IMGP, DBII, better known as the DBMF ETF, aka the ETF with the sloth mascot.
That's right, Josh.
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Way-DBMF made to move differently. The IMGP, DBI, managed future strategy, ETFs,
investment objectives, risk, charges, and expenses must be considered carefully before investing.
The statutory and summary prospectuses contain this and other important information about the
investment company. It may be obtained by visiting www.imgp.com.
The fund is distributed by Alps Distributors, Inc.
DBMF is the world's largest managed futures ETF as of September 30th, 2026, with 5.42 billion in assets.
Very cool. Great job. That's a 10 out of 10 read, Michael. No flubs, no stumbles. You really, you really brought it home.
Been reading for 38 years. All right. I know we got all the regulars in the chat. I want to say what's up to everybody all at once.
in particular slum grub gubernator says boys I didn't eat enough carbs today what should I eat
Michael do you have a suggestion what you go-to carb you have like a like when you're when you're
really craving and you know you shouldn't do it but what do you do like what's your what's your
move I'm a simple man pizza so here's what I would do go down to a French bakery get an
entire baguette, like four foot long baguette, the kind that you can't walk out of the store
carrying it sideways. Now, baguettes are hard to eat. They're a little bit hard. Let me finish.
Let me finish. Put the baguette in the car. Put it in the trunk so no one sees it.
Sticking out your window. And you stick it out your window, right, that could also work,
depending on the temperature. On the way home, supermarket, get yourself one of those little
tubs of borsan cheese. You ever have that? No, I never had that. No, I never,
heard of it borsan cheese it's like a french herbed cheese oh i like that it's it's soft you spread it yeah yeah i love that
rip that bagette in half spread the borsan cheese and your eyes will roll back into your head i'm telling you
it might be it might be up there with such that was that was oddly specific uh well listen they
ask me for my opinion i'm trying to help any other questions in the chat yeah any other
carbohydrate related let's do protein
Matt Stevik reminding everyone, I am salt of the earth.
That's right, with the borsan cheese.
All right, we do have to make an announcement.
Our advisor called today was very salt of the earth.
Yeah, it was.
Almost.
I thought it was important.
All right.
We told everybody if you want to get the first crack at our big event in New York City to sign up for the compound insider this morning.
we did the ticket drop.
I'm told we have sold a ton of tickets already,
which is really exciting.
And I want to let you guys know.
Tickets are now officially live
for the compound and friends on Broadway.
That's right.
And you could see we are bringing out
an all-star group of guests.
We've got Adam Parker,
Nick Colis and Jessica Raib,
Encore Crawford,
and the one and only Tom Lee.
They'll be joining Ben
Carlson, Michael Batnik, and I on stage. This is legit a Broadway theater. We're going to sell it out.
You guys can be there. Nicole is dropping the link in the chat. As you can see, we'll also put that
below us into the video description. Will there be baguettes?
You know what? Now that you mention it, maybe we'll do something with baguettes. No, but you know
what there will be? We're going to be talking about the outlook for 2027 with the smartest people
I know like Nick and Jessica are you kidding me Adam Parker Tom like think think about what
we're doing encore is coming like who else do you want to hear from in December about the year to
come like that's my dream that's my dream lineup so I don't know and then and then you get me
Ben and Michael on this on the side oh we're gonna be like twirling cane we got to we got to do
a number no big finish yeah do a number
Put that graphic up one more time.
Look at that.
You got Ben is Simba.
Michael is the Phantom of the Opera.
And I get to be Hamilton because I commissioned the design
from our in-house design genius, Daniel Parrah.
All right, we're going to see you guys in December.
Thank you so much for scooping up those tickets.
This is the biggest event we've ever done for the show.
And I know you guys will come out, represent it.
I rang the opening bell to celebrate 15 years of the halftime report this week and show you guys some picks.
So this is the current cast.
There's a few people missing like Bill Baruch and Malcolm and Bryn wasn't there.
Like we had a few people not there.
But as you could see, I am now tied with Joe and Stephanie as the three.
Longest lived castmates on the halftime report.
Obviously, Scott is the host.
He doesn't count, but we were all on the pilot episode.
Wow.
And I don't remember who else was on it.
I tried to find it.
I couldn't find it.
But that was October 2011, Michael.
Does it feel that way?
Who's the fellow all the way on the right next to Shannon?
Oh, great question.
That is our executive producer, Kevin Flynn.
And I met Kevin probably 12 years ago when I was doing hits in the
afternoon he now produces both of the shows that Scott is on 12 and 3 it's obviously a lot of
cross-pollination with the guests and the topics but Kevin effectively runs the show so if we
ever do anything that pisses you guys off now you know who to at on Twitter but as I was as I
was on the balcony ringing the bell which was a huge honor and the New York's here
there I am the New York Stock Exchange pulled out all the stops for us
Show a couple of more and then I'll get to the point.
We have Scott signing the,
here's me signing the wall, which is kind of cool.
But wait, Josh, I want to ask you, does it feel like 15 years?
Like, what does it feel like from your purview?
Some days it feels like 15 years and some days it feels like five years.
It's just like here's Scott signing the book.
So this book is everyone that's ever rung the bell
literally on, like on the books,
which is pretty cool that they let us do that.
Do we have anything else?
And here we are down at the lower.
podium. I mean, everybody was really excited. There's Joe and Stephanie signing the wall.
Everybody was really excited to be there. And how old is Josh in the chat? Great question.
I was 34 years old on the premiere episode of a halftime report. Today I'm 49. So that's a big
difference right there, right? Like the market, the market opinions of a 34 year old
versus a 49 year old. Right? I mean, I know my opinions about a lot of things have changed since
then. So I thought it'd be fun to take a look at the 15 year scorecard, like everything that's
happened in markets and money since the first episode of halftime report and we went on the air
up until now. So Mike, I'm just going to share some of these with you and feel free to jump
in and react at will. The S&P 500, or what are we showing here? Oh, the size of the stock market
Let's start there.
It was 11.9 trillion back then.
It's $75 trillion today.
Is that surprising to you?
Yes.
I can't believe it.
It's a 6x.
I can't believe it.
I really can't.
Now, the economy has only doubled.
What does that tell you?
The economy was $15 trillion.
Now it's $32.
The stock market has sex tumbled.
I mean, it's very simple.
Corporate America, specifically, the tech giants are much better at growing a lot faster than the rest of the economy.
I think the message is that.
The stock market investors have won the last decade and a half.
Yes.
Versus the people that are not stock market investors.
Just wait.
Well, here's here's the rundown.
The Dow is up 360% the S&P 573.
Then NASDAQ has more than 10xed.
It was 2479.
It's 27,000 and change.
It is up 1,0005%.
Can I tell you something?
Wait, can I just say one thing?
there hasn't been a day since over the last 15 years that I felt like market's going a lot higher.
Like, honestly, I mean, I'm sure there's, you know, times where I'm more bullish and others, but like the, the, a 15 X or 10x, whatever it is, I can't believe it.
Well, this is part of the thing.
Like, it's been scary the whole way.
Yes, but my schick on the show for 15 years and counting, including today, is stop crying and buy more stock.
Like, this has been my stance, pretty much the entire time.
There have definitely been times where I was nervous or cautious or whatever.
But like, basically, this is what I think I brought to the table for the show.
I would agree with you.
I don't know that I'd go as far as to call you a national treasure or even remotely close to that.
You could if you need to.
But salt of the earth, national treasure.
But it is undeniable that you have impacted the lives of millions of investors, all for the better if they listen to you.
I'm crying.
It's true.
The Russell 2000 is only up 329%.
Gold is only up 154%.
Silver 90.
Chart back on.
Yeah.
We have more.
What else do we?
I don't know.
I thought we had this in charts for him.
Never mind.
Yeah, there we are.
All right.
This is where it gets crazy.
Did you know, Michael?
Natural gas, Henry Hub, is negative 6% since we started the halftime report.
Well, given as close as I tracked natural gas, I'm not surprised at all.
No, but just like, it's not true to say, oh, you could have just invested in anything.
No, large cap tech was the thing to invest in just on the robots.
Like, that was the thing.
The people making tactical calls, crude oil is only up 8% in 15 years.
Holy shit, if you were one of these real assets investors, I hope you were a great trader.
Because there's nothing there, nothing.
The size of the ETF market is one of the big changes.
It was 954 billion.
Now it's 16.3 trillion is up 1,600% in assets.
We did the US economy.
So basically the story of the last 15 years
is the economy doubled, the stock market grew by 6x,
tech stocks 10x,
and ETF's 17x and the real assets, gold plus 150, oil, flat, natural gas down.
Like, I, you're cherry picking.
It's 15 fucking years.
I'm cherry picking.
This is the time frame.
One other, one other thing that is is noteworthy to me is that you've been saying the same
message for the entire time for the most part in terms of long-term investing.
And you didn't do it pretending that bare markets don't happen or that there's not
legitimate risks. Like, I think you did it in a very sober fashion.
Thank you, Michael. Let's look at the top five stocks then versus now. We do have a graphic for this.
This is money. So good. First of all, Nvidia is worth four times the entire 2011 top five stocks combined.
Just process that. The top five stocks in August of 2011, Apple, Exxon, Microsoft, IBM, Walmart.
in that order, Apple was $350 billion, and we thought that was outrageous.
Can I tell you something about this? This really, this fucked me up for a while.
Apple $355 billion in 2011, shut off for a second.
I remember somebody close to me, a family member who had been a long-term shareholder in Apple,
probably in like 2013. So Apple was $500 billion.
And he said to me, the next Apple is Apple.
And I just thought it was the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.
And it made me, it made me like, huh, this is this, what is this?
I don't know about anything.
Meanwhile, in other words, we missed Apple.
It already did.
It already appled.
But Apple in place as a placeholder for large tech, right?
It could have been any stock.
But it happened to be Apple and you have to be 100% right.
And it has 10xed since I left.
So really I just like this the size and scale and the growth of the the market is astounding.
And this happens all the time because like Exxon, think about how long Exxon.
was one of the largest companies in America.
Like decades.
40 years?
Right.
I do think it's interesting the sector weights.
So put up this tech, took over the S&P.
I mean, everyone knows this, but tech was 19 or 20% in 2011.
It's 37% now.
That is above the dot-com peak when it was 34%.
And this probably doesn't even include comm services, right?
It's probably closer like 50.
It could be, right.
If you throw, if you put back in Netflix, Google, meta, forget about it.
It's half the market.
Energy was 12% in 2011.
It's 2%.
What the hell is that noise?
Is that a baby?
You have a baby?
I don't know, baby here.
I don't think it's a baby here.
Energy went from a top three sector to basically the size of real estate and utilities.
And when you see energy stocks running up, which many of them are now doing, I want you to remember, this could go way further and way longer than you might actually think is possible.
Like, this absolutely could run.
The financials aspect is pretty interesting.
Yes.
Like, you can't disrupt that.
Yes.
I will also tell you the millionaires in the United States.
So here, let's put this up.
What can you possibly be typing?
Millionaires in the U.S., 2011 versus now.
So this is inclusive of the home, okay?
So this is net worth.
In 2011, there were 10 million,
and today there are 23.6 million millionaire households.
That is a change of 13.5 million new millionaire households
over the last 15 years.
So that is 2.3x.
There were 440,000 new U.S. millionaire households created just last year.
The U.S. now has 40% of the world's millionaires.
If you had to rank, like on the scale of 1 to 10,
how much of that growth in millionaire households is due to the stock market versus,
well, I know there's other factors, but versus all other factors,
what would you, like, would you say that statement is true as like a 10 out of 10?
and eight out of 10, like what would be your, what would be your take on why we have added 13.5 million new millionaire households?
Let me put it this way.
If there's a pie chart to explain the growth of the rise of millionaires, I would say 85% of it is due to the stock market.
And then 15% is like real estate and then everything else.
Right. Like, oh, like, and people say, oh, what about startups?
Right, startups that eventually go public.
Like, I feel, I feel like we have to include the price.
It's a stock market and then a little bit of real estate.
Yeah.
Because the growth in the private assets is a byproduct of a bull market for public stocks.
So it really, this is what separates the United States from all other countries.
We have forced people kicking and screaming in some cases into the stock market.
We have based the entirety of retirement around the equity market growing.
Like, we don't do pensions in this country.
This is how we do it.
And it's working.
Speaking of, 401Ks and retirement balances,
$2.9 trillion in September 2011.
Today, almost $11 trillion.
That's 272%.
Almost a quadruple.
You know what's great about this?
So the stock market is obviously very unevenly distributed, right?
Rich people, the mega wealth.
But not in this chart.
Bill Gates owns a lot more stocks than all of us combined.
But look at the 401K.
That is pretty damn.
There's a lot of equality in the 401k plan.
And it's $11 trillion.
Yes.
Spread out, not evenly, but like pretty damn close.
That is as egalitarian as it gets.
Anyone with a job at a company or corporation that's got a plan is able to access it.
And we all, we all have the same limit.
Right?
All employer, um,
defined contribution plans,
which is 401K.
Um,
gone from 4.3 trillion to 15 trillion.
Total U.S. retirement assets,
18 trillion to 51 trillion.
So that's inclusive of IRAs and 403Bs and all the rest.
That's a triple.
Retirement assets today, like invested retirement assets,
are now 33% of all household financial assets.
We have 70 million people in this country
currently contributing to 401Ks.
That's great.
The last thing we're going to do, U.S. stock ownership.
I thought this was interesting.
It is not linear and it is not growing.
It has had ebbs and flows.
In 2011, 57% of Americans own stock.
By the 2013-2016 period, that number had fallen to 52%,
which is the lowest that Gallup says they've ever recorded.
We had a rebound to 58% by 2022,
probably thanks to the meme stock craze
and people sitting at home
opening brokerage accounts.
We hit a high in 24 and 25 at 62%
or a local high.
The Federal Reserve says
58% of families held stock as of 2022.
So we're sort of bouncing around in a range.
That's not on its way to 70% of households.
And maybe that's part of the problem
that the Trump accounts
are meant to address, because that number should be growing as the stock market grows. Do you agree?
Yes, and credit Michael Dell and his wife, $6.25 billion. I mean, holy shit.
Amazing. Really, really, really amazing. The top 1% of households own half of all stock.
The bottom 50% of households own 1% of the stock market. If you ask me, what is the single biggest
problem with the economy. Obviously, like, people would complain high prices, but you are the reason
for the high prices. You are the inflation. I would say it's this. We have, think about that. The bottom
50% of America only has one percent of the market. It is talk about not evenly distributed.
We need more participation in this economic miracle that has set America apart from the rest of the
world. It's the only way we could stop fighting and screaming at each other and accusing each other
and and the class warfare. It's the only way is that everybody has to see some elevation of
their their status. It can't just be the top 1% with half the pie. So that's me on my soapbox. I know
that's an easy thing to say. Everybody would agree with it. But it's really true. Really true.
I know. Stunning. Stunning and brave.
Anyway, first of all, congratulations.
Epic, epic, epic, epic run.
Here's the last question.
Do you think I'll make it to 30 years?
No.
No chance.
And also, thank you to Sean for putting together an incredible run of charts, really stellar work.
Sean Russo is a revelation.
He was grinding those out this afternoon.
And these are amazing charts.
We're going to use them later for sure.
You know, I feel like I walked so Sean could run.
Fair.
Sean's charts are better than newer charts ever were.
No.
There's no doubt about that.
No doubt.
You definitely walked.
There's no doubt about that.
You definitely.
All right.
So we're doing banks again.
It feels almost like Groundhog Day.
Today did for me.
We've just heard the banks say the same thing for a long time.
I don't know if it's, is it 10 quarters?
Is it like three years in a row?
probably not three years ago but it does feel like it's it's like all right they're saying what they
always say i'm i'm curious to talk about the the market's reaction but um i don't know there wasn't like a
whole lot in there that was like whoa i mean Goldman's on fire jami diamond's warning about you know
the economy's good but he's warning you're right you're right i actually you know it'll be fun
next quarter before the bank earnings let's write the script yeah it's the same thing every time
with with him and it's fine right like nothing really has changed that much it's a it's a great point
Let's start with the outlier city
Put this chart up
City had a negative 5.6% day today
I don't want to make too much of it because the stock you know obviously
Started off the year red hot and has run up. I think it's one of the bodies is it the best performing bank or it was it was until it was until recently
But City had a city had a nice summer. Let's let's leave it there. It was over a hundred forty dollars a share in late June
and now it just ticked down to 124, which is not catastrophic, but for a bank stock,
I guess that's a lot of movement.
The earnings and revenue, things are cooling off.
So these are the reasons people on the street were saying city fell.
Investment banking fees were down 13% sequentially, meaning from the last time they reported.
It was the biggest quarterly decline among all the banks.
Credit costs rose.
So the reserve build was larger than last quarter, which people pay attention to.
Why does the reserve grow?
Sometimes it's a function of the total amount of credit they're putting out there.
They have to be reserved against it.
But sometimes because they're seeing something in the data amongst their borrowers that gives them pause.
We don't know these specific reasons, but credit card profit was hurt by rewards and provisions.
With rates rising, credit is what people are worried about.
fee income was soft, non-interest revenue.
This is where they do a transaction, a banking transaction, and charge of fee was negative
4%.
The revenue beat was barely a beat, and expectations were high.
I think the stock at one point was up 38% year-to-date.
So you combine all those things, and that's why I think you got that outsized negative reaction
in Citi.
Not the end of the world, but put the chart back up.
this is a clear violation.
First off, it's a failure at the 50 day,
and then it's a violation below the 200 day,
and you see momentum confirming falling to a 36 RSI.
I'm not a dip buyer here.
What do you think?
Well, I don't think anybody listening to go on Citigroup,
so let's talk about the next deck.
All right.
You go.
What do we got?
JP Morgan or Goldman?
Yeah, let's do JP Morgan.
Again, it was business as usual.
I thought it was interesting what they had to say about the AI agents, whether it's instinct,
muse or whatever else, you're just not going to be able to get into your bank account.
They're not allowing it.
Fidelity in the brokerage accounts are doing the same.
Smart.
Yeah.
You're not in that much of a rush where you need an AI agent in your bank account.
It's okay.
I'm not mad about it.
What stood out to me was $5 trillion in wealth assets.
And not client assets.
I think it was asset management assets, I believe.
Either way, not either way, I think that's the number.
That is huge.
I remember when they first launched their ETF business,
I think it was like short-term bonds that they launched with.
And it seemed weird at the time.
This was probably 2017, 2018.
And here we are nearly a decade later, and it's a juggernaut.
It's an absolute behemoth of a business.
So credit to them.
Mike Mayo is breaking balls.
Well, what else is new?
He can't find the AI benefits in the earnings release.
Right.
Jeremy Barnum, the CFO, said they're not visible yet.
They're spending a lot of money.
I think their expenses was $13 billion for the quarter.
I mean, they're spending a lot of money.
Yes.
So he corrected, Mayo cited $2 billion in AI costs.
And they said, no, it's more like for the year.
He said, no, it's more like $700 million for the year.
The other interesting thing is that they stopped buying back stock.
A billion.
And there were, there was some questions.
there were some questions about like, what, like, what does it mean?
Do we have to, do we have to worry about that?
And I think they said something like it's a $30 billion buyback authorization and there's no meaning there.
We just, oh, this is Bank of America.
I'm sorry.
This wasn't Jayf Morgan.
No, no, no.
It was Javn Morgan, too.
So they bought back a billion dollars down from $7 billion last quarter, I think.
Okay.
All right.
So, I mean, questions about that, I guess are legitimate.
Let's do Goldman because that was a blowout.
$17 a share versus $13.65 expected.
Revenue was its second highest quarterly revenue number ever at 18 spots, $6.8 billion.
Equity's revenue was up 72%, and equity financing hit a record up 96%.
Advisory fees, $1.7 billion, another record.
Um, they just seem to be crushing it all across the board.
What was your reaction to Goldman? Um, God, what was I just about to say? Uh,
Goldman, Goldman, Goldman. No rush. Hold on. We're not live. Uh, gosh, dang it. First, well, I hate the
stock reaction. Like, I, I was optimistic on banks going into the earnings because I thought the
setup was okay. I thought there was expectations at least based on the stock price was,
was pretty damn good. Um, what the hell?
How was I going to say about Goldman?
I don't know.
What do you think?
It'll come to me.
Two different analysts asked about CEO succession.
Yes.
And he said twice, there is no succession, transition, or timeline currently underway.
Like it's not, meaning like it's not even a conversation internally at the bank.
And I'm sure it is.
But it's not something that they're actively worried about right now.
I thought this was an interesting question.
They said anything unusual in the results, particularly like,
as it relates to situational awareness.
The blown up hedge run.
And Solomon asked to the CFO, I don't think so, right?
And it said, no, there was no unusual items.
It was just a hell of a quarter.
So anyway, the stock gapped up, I think, 4%
and closed on the lows of the day.
Listen, it's one day.
I don't want to make too much of it.
But it's not awesome.
It's not what you want to say.
They asked about higher interest rates choking off AI spend.
He reiterated the Goldman House,
view is that the U.S. buildout will need $10 trillion through 2032. He said 5% at 10 year.
At 64 years old, he's seen higher rates most of his life. A 5% 10 year doesn't scare me.
Well, yeah, he's like, he said I'm 63 years old. A 5% 10 year. Like, what?
September, there were some IPOs pulled because value.
came in 10 to 15% below expectations.
That was the market, he said, like basically the market is still open.
The window's still open, but not every venture capitalist is getting an Aston Martin for Christmas.
Dude, the marks will not be better in three months, six months from now.
I find that I would definitely take the under on that.
Okay.
Wells Fargo, not interesting.
Cares.
Okay.
Well, they asked Charlie Sharp about the consumer.
He said fine.
They also find, because it is fine.
Because it's basically fine.
And, listen, when you think about one of the more interesting consequences of the rising 10-year,
the rising two-year, like, higher rates, the banks are making more money than what people had thought
as recently as January.
So, J.P. Morgan, I thought the most important piece of guidance was on net interest income.
confirmed that it's above previous expectations.
He said 106 or 107 billion is now the full year expectation.
That's just net interest income on the money on deposit at JPMorgan.
And you could thank higher rates for that.
So if you're a bank investor, higher rates cut both ways.
They might create a problem with some debt or some funding of projects,
but they also create a tailwind on these banks lending businesses.
All right.
So in conclusion, bank earnings were good to very good.
And the reaction to the stock market, at least today, sucked.
So don't like to see that.
Let's keep it moving.
All right.
I'm going to quote front of the show, Michael Santoli, on deteriorating internals.
I think a lot of people that are watching the show right now, a lot of people that have been watching the show,
they understand that we keep harping on this because we are seeing a pretty drastic set of
circumstances beneath the surface of the market.
We're pretty much at record highs day by day.
And yet, by day by day, we're losing big groups of stocks with every passing week.
Stocks are falling out of up trends, falling into down trends.
We're treating double digits off their highs from this summer.
And it seems like almost no group is immune.
If you're not a trillion dollar market cap tech company, you're probably not at a high right now.
Yes, but and also the equal, yes, you're right.
And we're going to talk about a lot of stocks getting absolutely destroyed.
But it's so interesting that the equal weight is only four and a half percent, not even off its all-time high.
And that's, again, that's equally weighted.
Here's here's Santoli.
Goldman Sachs co-head of equity derivative sales puts it this way.
Quote, by our preferred GS measure, breadth has now deteriorated to its weakest level since the dot-com bubble.
the headline index continues to mask
just how difficult this tape has been underneath.
Yeah, active managers, forget about it.
The big question we're getting from clients now
is whether the market narrowness is a warning sign
for the broader market.
I'm increasingly of the view that it isn't
and continue to favor higher SPX.
Morgan Stanley, equity strategist, Mike Wilson,
who has been extolling the broadening performance,
notes that rising treasury yields
have now rewritten that script.
But no worries, he argues, because the risk has been taken out of most stocks entering earnings season.
Say it louder.
Higher rates are being felt most acutely in the average stock, but the de-rating there has also run well ahead of any deterioration in earnings if yielded stabilized and revisions old.
That leaves room for catch-up.
And the reason I bring this up is to set the table because another friend of the show, Denise Chisholm, who we've had on twice, she tacked.
this idea for fidelity over the weekend,
with this idea where, oh, no, the participation
is shrinking, which means the bull market is going to
eventually come to an end because less stocks are going up.
And she actually says, no, it's the opposite.
If the stock market can survive narrowing participation
without a recession, the data suggests much bigger gains
coming on the heels of that.
I'm going to ask you to explain these charts to me,
or explain them to the audience.
Put the first one up.
So this is showing the deterioration beneath the surface, right?
That's right.
This is pretty astounding.
So, but like, explain it.
This is the top 3,000 stocks,
but what is she ranking them on?
Or what is she showing?
So instead of looking at one point in time,
which would be even noisier than this chart is,
now this goes back 100 years almost.
This is an oscillator?
Yeah.
So if you were to show the percentage of stocks
above or below the 50 day moving average, it would be insane.
So she smooths it out by looking at the last three-month reading.
And by that metric, we are pretty thoroughly washed out.
And it's really unusual given that, as I just said,
the equal weight is 4.5% off its all-time high,
and the S&P is at an all-time high right there.
This is unusual.
This is her point.
Many stocks have already done the work of correcting,
while the index itself has held up reasonably well,
which is both, now listen, listen up, normal and healthy during a bull market.
Forward returns are strong following periods of weak participation, and in fact, they tend to be
strongest when participation is either extremely high or, in this case, extremely low.
How strange is that?
I mean, I feel like, yes.
I remember writing a post called a bullish washout in like 20,
We've been having this conversation for a decade.
And every time you get the breadth deterioration to Michael's point and Denise's point,
the market has already done a lot of the work for you.
So I am not surprised.
And I think, I mean, I'm firmly in her camp.
Okay.
Low participation has typically followed by better, not worse, forward returns.
Looking across a century of data, weak participation has more often been an opportunity disguising.
Opportunity disguised as a problem, then a problem disguised as an opportunity.
So nothing works all the time, but what you're seeing here, all data, 1926 to present,
it's 100 years of data, and it's telling you clearly that low participation has been followed by strong returns for the market.
It is not the quote unquote canary in the coal mine all the time.
It's the opposite.
it. So look at the gray bar. Okay. So let's assume that this is not the next great depression or the next great financial crisis coming. Let's assume that that's not about to happen. Returns are better when you have this low participation rally, this low participation dynamic. Like significantly better. Look at the gray line all the way to the left.
She also, she says what's unusual here is that this drop.
in participation has not occurred with a market dip.
So historically when we've seen participation this week,
the market had already experienced the correction
of at least 5%, roughly 97% of the time,
which is why this is so strange.
Because the top five stocks,
which are all at all-time highs,
except for Amazon, I think Amazon's still top five,
the top five stocks are equal to the top five
to the bottom 436.
So the top five is 25 trillion.
That is equal to stocks 67 through 500, which is why 67 through 500 can have varying degrees of deterioration.
But if the top five are near all time highs, that's that that's how we're that's how we're, that's how we're, that's how we're, that's how we're, let's get to
let's get to the last fidelity chart and then we'll put a, a, a pin in this.
This is Denise quote, we write about market anomalies frequently and one.
pattern shows up again and again when the market is stronger than it should quote
unquote should be it often stays that way what explain this chart for the people that are
listening not watching uh all right weak participation most bullish after avoid okay so we're
looking at the probability of a positive 12-month return by prior drawdown regime and right now we
are all the way to the left we're not in 5% correction territory
Right.
So I know this is probably intuitive.
Like, yeah, obviously, the more you go down, the lesser likelihood of...
But finish the thought, 82% of the time, the probability of a positive 12-month return based on where we are is 82% going back to 1926.
Like, to me, it's like it's the opposite of what everyone thinks.
Everyone thinks it looks more like that bar on the right.
Nope, not true.
And it's not true.
All right, I have two more charts that I brought.
One, I just, this is sort of a non-sequent.
I just thought this is super interesting from Todd's own.
I've never seen a chart presented this way.
So this is another way of just showing that we've lost a lot of the thematic things that we're working.
DRAM, for example, is in a 30% drawdown.
But what's super interesting about this chart from Todd is, is that this is plotted the date of the 52-week high against the drawdown.
So, for example, DRAM peaked in June of 2026.
and it's in a 30% drawdown.
DRNZ, which I don't even know
I guess that's drones.
That peaked in January 2026.
How cool is this chart?
So it's showing that there's like a systematic drawdown for the biggest winners
up until their peak?
Like what's the, I guess what's the takeaway for investors right now looking at this?
I don't know.
There's a huge take.
Well, the takeaway is this.
The SEP 500 is at a new high, yet many corners of the sector and thematic world are being left behind.
These are like theme ETFs, like solar, DRAM.
What's photo?
Oh, okay, photonics, I guess.
Anyway, just a great chart.
And then lastly, Josh, last week you were talking about that we're going to have a Vick spike in October and we very well might.
It's also very bizarre that these moves are canceling each other out.
So the top five versus the bottom four, 36, or whatever it is.
The stock market itself is at the index level.
It's been very quiet.
So Jessica Manton from Bloomberg says the S&P hasn't posted a 1% decline in 53 trading sessions through Tuesday,
marking the longest such stretch since January 2020.
Yeah, I don't think that's going to continue for much longer.
On the show last week, I said my base case for October is we're going to get a shakeout.
And for all I know, the bank earnings today and the blah reaction to them is part of what I think we're going to
have to live through.
Yeah, well, this can't last forever.
Obviously, I mean, it's ridiculous.
Not a 1% decline in 53 sessions?
Earnings driven sell-offs are going to be the excuse this time.
I mean, I don't know if you saw the news today.
Like, the capital of Yemen is literally on fire.
It looks like, it looks like oil prices aren't backing off anytime soon, I guess,
would be the, I don't have an opinion on the military action,
but it doesn't seem like there's an end in
insight to what's happening with energy prices.
Okay.
Against that backdrop, I think, uh, I think there's an October surprise coming.
So so so I had this, this topic title, consumer stock smoked.
We've been talking about this for a while.
So Joe tweeted if you can think of a popular consumer brand in America, it's chart probably
looks like this. And this is a chart of Pepsi. And yeah, he's right.
And with such a great insight. It's once he says that out loud, he's just the good.
He's dead on.
So, but what's so interesting is it's.
not just, it's not just like staples in America.
Chart off, please.
Louis Vuitton, like LVMH is in a 57% drawdown product.
I don't know if the brand is still relevant or not.
It's in like a 45% drawdown.
There's a lot of consumer stocks getting smoked.
So I had, I had the boys whip this up.
Chart on, please.
So I looked at stocks that were, that were, have a market cap over $2 billion,
U.S. listed, that are down 30% from their 52 week high.
Not all time high, just 52-week-high.
And 50%.
If you're down 50% from a 52-week-I, you are getting smoked.
Yeah.
And 146 technology stocks are down 30%.
48 are down 50%.
But look at, I guess, consumer cyclicals.
What I should have done, I should have adjusted this for the number of stocks in each
basket.
You know what I would do here?
I would put the ticker symbol of the hardest hit one from each sector.
And then that declined.
So next chart.
So these are consumer stocks, not all of them, just a select few.
And it's Flutter, which is Fandual, down 70%.
Jesus.
Planet Fitness, Wingstop, Lulu, Celsius, Restoration Hardware, Chewy, Nike, Las Vegas, Sands,
Kava, Draft Kings,
Lenar, Dix.
Dude, what's not on this chart?
Can you think of anything
that's not on this chart?
Anything of size?
Like a consumer-facing brand
that's not on this chart.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Give me a sock.
Keep talking.
Keep talking.
Fast.
All right, so this is what jumps out to me.
Yeah.
It's every segment
of consumer spending.
I was going to say
with the exception of travel,
but then I saw Las Vegas Sands on here.
But it's Domino's and Hershey.
Like it's, it's food that you order in.
It's snacks.
It's McDonald's.
Then they got obviously the housing-related stuff like floor and decor, no shit.
Dick's sporting goods, advanced auto parts.
These things have nothing to do with each other.
You've got an apparel name on here, Lula Lemon.
Nike.
So these are the names.
Everyone's represented on here.
So, okay.
But there's a lot of names that are working.
So I'm glad yes.
Hit me.
We got 20, 26.
All right.
Amazon, Abercrombie, Best Buy, Cheesecake.
Fact, that's weird.
eBay, Etsy, General Motors, GameStop, Hilton, Harley Davidson,
Harley Davidson, okay?
Marriott, Wayfair, Urban Outfitters, William Sonoma.
Those are all stocks that are within.
The chat's giving me some good names.
Shark Ninja.
this thing shark danger was there i just that's not a brand i'm familiar with oh is that the shark danger like
the vacuum cleaners okay so so all of those are within Starbucks no starbucks sucks all of those are
with monster monster beverages uh i don't have that here unless that's in a different category that might be a
staple that might be considered a staple but there's there's there are a lot of consumer names that are
working but there's a lot of them that are getting that are getting smoked so uh listen it's easy
to brush off a lot of the weakness underneath the service. You can't brush everything off.
I think a lot of these names have their own idiosyncratic story. But it's the banks that I'm more
concerned about more than the more than these names. But what way in it? What's your theory
for why we have so many is it, do we just always and right now we're harping on it or is something
specific going on that's driving these consumer facing giant brands to 50% declines?
Okay. So I think I think there's a there's a there is a there is like,
glass half full story to be told here there's a lot of choice there the consumer has a lot of choice
when you walk around New York City and you wanted to get lunch now obviously the lunch crowd is is
beaten to death right with work from home still being a thing but it used to just be all right
let's get Chipotle there else let's go to the deli the deli there are so many wonderful
new places to eat people are health conscious like trends are shifting it's easy to paint a bleak
story, not to sweep all that under the rug, but it's not all bad. There are positive stories to be
told. All right. Well, here's one. Energy, prices. Yeah, yeah. Tariffs, inflation.
Out of people's, out of people's spend. Okay. Domino's, same store sales are up 0.3%.
Is that a read on the consumer, or are people just not eating that shit as much? It doesn't have to be
either. It could also be a read, to your point, that their app was hot, but now everyone's
app game has gotten better and they compete with 10 other pizza solutions so this it's not
what it's not one thing um all right let's move on let's talk about seasonality one other thing that i think
the bowls have in their at their back um is the seasonality aspect of this i like this so q4 has been
very strong in midterm years we're looking at the the the light blue line like i'm normally strong okay
And this is not like n equals two.
But Spoke has a chart, a great chart, showing over the last 25 years, the S&P 500's three-month performance following with a close on 10-6 has been better than any other three-month period during the year.
Again, you can't take this to the bank.
I don't know why this is happening.
But in a midterm year-
Go back to the first one.
So we're in the midterm year now, which would be that blue line.
That's right, Josh.
I think people just like when the elections are.
over. They almost don't care what the, what the, they almost don't care what the result is.
I just think it weighs on people because all the political advertising is this constant reminder
of how many problems there are. Like the challengers beat the shit out of the incumbents in
their advertising. And there's always worse things on the menu that might happen than what
actually happens as a result of these Senate and House seat turnover situations. So I think, I think
that's why the market has cover to rip in midterm years once the election's over. Are you buying
that theory? Sure. I mean, what would be the reason? Why would it be so pronounced versus
versus the other years? Okay, I don't know, but it doesn't mean that what you just said is
accurate. Wait, what? So I don't, I don't know what the reason is, but it doesn't mean that the one
that you gave is the right one. It doesn't mean that I'm not wrong, but it's not, I can't, I can't
not right. You might be right. I can't prove or disprove what you just said. People get anxious.
They, I don't know. Fine. Whatever. Um, I, I hear with.
All right. Next chart. So, so Taranova brought this to us, uh, back in 2022. And it helped
be as it may. So may it be. Exactly. Okay. Shout to cousin Greg. So this is midterm election years.
So from the election through to the following June and it is a hundred percent of the time
It has been positive. Wow. Why? I don't know. I don't care. I just know that it is a hundred percent of the time
So we got you could take that to the rack we got 20 something it's not n equals one and it doesn't mean forever and ever but given the setup of everything washed out of the midterm seasonality. I don't think now is time to get bearish
All right.
All right.
Last topic.
So a year ago, it's been a year.
It's been a year since we had this.
We did a segment called Value or Value Trap.
What a difficult exercise this was.
Okay.
So we went through six names.
It's so bad.
We went through it.
We threw out Airbnb, Salesforce, Chipotle, Adobe, Lulu, and Nike.
And we asked like, which would you buy, which would you sell?
Like meaning which of these is a value?
trap and which one actually is a value
stock. All right. So we were both aligned on
Lulu and Lulu is
the chart on. Lulu stock is
down 43%.
That is... Proud of those units.
Proud of those units.
We were both aligned
on Salesforce being a cell.
Salesforce is actually flat, but
it was down 40%
at one point since we said it. So I feel like we get the
win there too.
You said Nike was a buy. I said
it was a sell. That is definitely a win
for me. Nike is down 43%.
The worst, the worst one out on the board.
You said Chipotle was a sell.
I said Chipotle was a buy.
Chipotle is down 23%, so I was 100% wrong.
By the way, the Starbucks Chipotle Mojure is the dumbest thing of all time.
It was never real.
It was never real.
Airbnb, you said it was a sell and I said it was a buy.
This is the one stock that I didn't buy, but this is the one stock that actually was a value stock.
It's about 40% since.
And you and I were both aligned.
The one thing that we were both aligned on, this is funny.
We both said that Adobe was a buy.
and Adobe is down a third.
So proving the point, once again,
that predicting the future, not easy.
That's not even the point.
I mean, yes, that's true.
That's not even it.
There's two points.
Chart back up, with the exception of Airbnb.
None of these ever looked good since.
Like, none of them had a meaningful enough rally
where it even looked like they were making a comeback.
If you caught the bottom in Salesforce, he did well.
But that aside, you're right.
Not a single one.
I mean, if you do this kind of bullshit that we did systematically, I promise you, you lose money almost all the time.
Like if you play this game with your portfolio, I'm just going to buy all the stocks that get killed.
My friend, it is not going to go well.
I don't care what the Fed is doing.
I don't care anything.
That is true.
That is true.
And it is also true that the last year has been one of the worst times to go dumpster diving.
It has been particularly bad.
Right.
This environment, here's the other takeaway.
You think that a stock has hit its low just because it's down 20%, just because down 30%,
just because the PE ratio is single digits, that's not how it works at all.
And look, not everybody has to trade stocks the way that I trade them, which is looking for winners.
Not everybody has to agree with that approach, and it doesn't always work.
Winners don't always win.
There's plenty of losing, believe me, there's plenty of losing on both side of the aisle,
but this is just, this is why you blow up your life.
It's way harder this way.
Almost always.
Almost always.
All right, what are you going to make the case for?
I should know, all right, I'm going to, I should make the case for why I will never be a value investor
and I will never pick value stocks ever again, but I still will because I'm still a sucker.
I actually, I want to make the case against
against glamour IPOs.
Let me define what I mean by glamour.
These stories where it's like a charismatic founder
who's like addressing like the wrongs of their industry,
like saving the trees or Adam Newman,
bringing about world consciousness.
In the case of this one,
amazing founder, brilliant woman,
no personal disrespect whatsoever.
she built something that a lot of people got a lot of value out of but that wasn't reason enough
to pay up when her company went public in the height of the post-COVID fever dream that was
2021 and we now have an end to that story maybe not an end to the app because it's getting acquired
but an end to what happened with that IPO which was in a sea of losers this might have
have been among the most disastrous.
The only thing keeping it from being like full on
Hindenburg level disaster is it never got big enough
to lose people serious money.
Let's put up this chart from, let's put up this article from 2021.
So this was, this is Bumble, and it was a dating app,
and it had a really great concept that people, again,
a glamorous idea, people love this idea where,
the women get to initiate the interaction with the men,
which was novel and smart and addressed a real problem with dating apps.
Unfortunately, it was a better idea than it was a business.
And a lot of things went wrong and she got replaced and it's not all her fault, obviously.
She certainly can't control the stock opening up at a 77% premium on its IPO date.
The market did that all by itself.
but I want to show you a chart of this thing.
Give me this.
This is a price chart.
I guess the IPO price was, I don't know, 24 or 30
or whatever they normally priced things like this at.
It ran to over 80 the first day,
never saw that price ever again,
ended up at like $2 a share.
It was a 90-something percent complete and total washout.
And the reason I'm bringing it up today
is they are getting a question.
required. So they are getting bought by, it looks like a venture capital, private equity type of
situation. And I guess the guys that are buying it have had success with other turnarounds and
they think they could fix this. But either way, it went up 56% today. I think it's getting
taken off the market at six. So $80 something to $6. On a market cap level, next chart,
I think the valuation got up to $8.5 billion
and fell to like $300 million yesterday.
And now they're going to get a billion dollars.
This is why we need to democratize private investments,
because look at the opportunity to sell into the public market.
Yeah, I guess.
That's one way to put it.
Everybody was excited about this IPO.
Everybody loved her name is,
her name is Whitney Wolf Hurd.
And she was a darling.
Like she was like everybody wanted her on the talk shows.
Like, you know, she's a woman founder.
She definitely built something that its time had come.
People, women had bad experiences on dating apps, a lot of very aggressive men.
And it was like, hey, let's flip the script.
Let's create something that works in reverse.
And it was extremely popular.
I don't follow the dating apps much.
I do know Match Group owns Tinder and that's not doing well.
and I think Hinge is also public or Hinge is bigger than Tinder now, and that's not doing particularly well.
And then this one is effectively coming off the market at a 90% sell-off from its all-time high.
I think you lost your case.
Avoid the glamorous IPOs, even when you love the concept.
Give it a minute.
It's very likely you're going to get an opportunity to buy these things lower.
And at that point, you may not still want to buy them.
Almost always.
True.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
I brought a mystery chart.
John, let's go.
Chart one, please.
All right.
So this is, this is, the orange line is the stock market, the SEP 500.
And the purple line is one of the biggest stocks in the world.
Not a disaster.
I mean, right?
Like certainly a decent return.
didn't beat the index and had a whole lot more volatility.
It fell 50% in 2022.
And it's just been pretty disappointing.
Wait, but what is the orange one?
The orange line is the S&P 500.
I have another chart.
So that's 2019.
And that's one stock versus the S&P 500.
So this is the same stock over the last five years.
So it has underperformed with, like I said, a pretty, pretty gnarly 50% draw it on.
Man, I haven't said this in a while.
Chart off.
2022 sucked.
That stock got cut in half.
And a lot of stocks,
Nvidia fell two-thirds.
No, Nvidia, yeah, fell two-thirds.
Meta fell 70.
Netflix fell 75.
Like, 2022 was brutal.
I know it didn't last forever,
and I know brutal is a relative term.
Whatever.
2022 was no fun.
All right, that's the stock.
One of the biggest in the world.
I own it.
Yes, you do.
I have lived this.
Stock is Amazon.
Correct.
So since 2019.
That's pretty good.
That's a very good.
First guest.
Come on,
very good.
So seven years, seven years, seven years, one of the best companies in the world, can't hit the market.
You know, I don't really fully understand why the data center business is literally gangbusters.
The last time they reported, it was so far ahead of expectations and guys.
guidance was great.
And AWS was re-accelerating for the first time to the long time.
It's tied to these low-margin businesses that help them acquire a lot of customers
and used to be high-growth businesses that are now, how did Logan Roy put it, a fight for a knife in the mud?
Like that's Amazon staple businesses selling batteries and delivering shampoo same day,
that business is a fight for a knife in the mud.
and it's not clear that that will ever change.
And so AW, I mean, if they spun off AWS,
I feel like it could be a red hot stock,
but then what the hell happens to Amazon?
Does anyone want to own Amazon Prime?
No.
And the grocery business?
No.
Don't nobody want to own shipping and fulfillment of consumer goods.
Right?
That's a 14 times.
That's a 14 times earning stock.
I agree.
All right.
Well, proud of myself for guessing.
Great mystery chart, though.
That was a good one.
We haven't done that.
Guys, I want to let you know, once again,
you should become a compound insider.
And the way to do that is to go to the compound news.com, sign up.
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