The Compound and Friends - The One With Matt Levine and Mary Childs

Episode Date: October 28, 2022

On episode 68 of The Compound and Friends, Matt Levine and Mary Childs join Michael Batnick and Downtown Josh Brown to discuss Matt's epic cover-to-cover Bloomberg piece on crypto, Elon's first moves as Twitter owner, Facebook's collapse, the future of Credit Suisse, the best finance books, and more! Thanks to our friends at Kraneshares for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: www.kraneshares.com Check out the latest in financial blogger fashion at The Compound shop: https://www.idontshop.com Obviously nothing on this channel should be considered as personalized financial advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any securities. See our disclosures here: https://ritholtzwealth.com/disclosures/ Inclusion of advertisements by podcast sponsors does not constitute or imply endorsement, sponsorship or recommendation thereof, or any affiliation therewith, by the Content Creator or by Ritholtz Wealth Management or any of its employees. For additional advertisement disclaimers: https://abnormalreturns.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=f8843b0fc6f0ed7d35e67dcf5&id=33b07916d1&e=4e0f612ef0. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Matt became the Crypto King this week. Why is mine not facing out? Uh... I'm leaving. This is bulls- Did you not get my Ryder? You have Duff McDonald's book and you don't have mine? You're about to be in so much trouble. Oh my god. Rearrange it.

Matt, how freaking long did that piece take you? That's not a piece. What do you even call that thing? It's a tome. It's a book proposal. It took me, I don't know, it took like three weeks of intensely doing that and then like two or three more months of, thank you, of tinkering and editing and revising and stuff. I can't believe you got Satoshi to go on the record with you.

That's crazy. Well, he's also Elon Musk and we're both, so. Are you like uncomfortable with all of the like praise or heat or whatever the spotlight that You don't seem like a Just feels like you know Feels like It's too much

You know it feels like You're like on the cover Matt's on the cover of the next Madden I'm saying it's like the year of Matt Levine. We got him a good time. It's been the year of Matt Levine. What is that shit all over the floor?

It's my fucking chair. What? I'm not kidding. Your chair's falling apart? What does that mean? So I just. Are you whipping it? Can I look at the back?

Because I know you do that. I do do that, but not that. But what material is that? Is it leather? You'll see. I don't know. It's every time I come back into the office, but it's getting worse. It's getting worse.

The bottom of my chair is ripping and it's leaving just crumbs all over my office. Oh, I don't know. It's every time I come back into the office, but it's getting worse. It's getting worse. The bottom of my chair is ripping and it's leaving just crumbs all over my office. Oh, I hate that for you. It's disgusting, can you throw it out? It's very strange. Throw out the chair? The whole chair, can you get it recovered?

What else are you gonna do with it? I don't even use it. I don't even sit, I stand. You don't even sit, so throw it out. Oh, throw it out the window. Dude, your chair is... You can get it recovered. You have to see the floor under his desk.

Like a little... Like a chipmunk has been there? Is that this? That's happened to me before. It's the wheels. Oh, ew. The wheels are like... Mine was the armrests.

This is not interesting. Like someone had gnawed on them. We have clients here. You can't have an office that looks like that. It's your office, too. No, I know, but I don't do that with my chair. All right. Well, I'm not doing anything.

It's f***ing doing it on its own. Not biting my chair. All right, well... We don't have proof of that. It's f***ing doing it on its own. I'm not biting my chair. All right. Well. We don't have proof of that. It's not cute. You brought cookie. Is this like a thing that you do?

You bring like. No, I was hungry. Oh, I was going to say, is that like one of your podcast secrets? That would be charming of me. Yeah. Yes. We have so much to talk about. I mean, you know, I did try to bring brownies to Bill Gross.

So yes, it is. Pie brownies. Would Twitter be 10 bucks without Elon? Or would it be five bucks? You put your headphones on. I think $5 or $10 is about... This is an audio medium. That was incredible.

Duncan, did we get that? Yes. You got everything. We're surveilling people from the moment they walk in. For the audience who can't see a mattress, give a hell of a face. I don't even know what that was. $10 feels about right.

Can I have you scoot down that way just a little bit? Scoot this way. Can somebody explain the sink thing? The thing with the sink? Is that an in-joke from Twitter that I'm just not aware of? Oh, so Matt explained this to me earlier. He arrived with the sink because... You understand this?

Yeah, there's like a meme where it's like, you know, there's like an open door and there's like a bathroom sink outside the door. It says, let that sink in. Yeah, that's a good joke. Remember? Because bad thing happened. You had a Twitter, Twitter, tweet, tweet. Everyone's like, okay, this bad thing, let that sink in.

Who the hell is that funny to? Elon Musk. Apparently my friend that I was sitting with. I think it's funny. I mean, it's like old, but it's funny. It's like. It's a little funny that he did it. Like, it's a little funny.

Wait, what did he do? I carried a physical sink. Like a big sink. It's a good bit and he's committed, but I feel like. He, it's a little funny. Wait, what did he do? He carried a physical sink. Like a big sink. It's a good bit, and he's committed, but I feel like- He's very committed. So what do you do after the first 20 people that work there see you with the sink? You hand it to someone randomly. Yeah, I assume you like brought an assistant to carry the sink.

Your new job, hold this. You're fired. Hold my sink. All right, so I don't get anything anymore. I feel like I'm losing- Yeah, is the internet not working? I'm losing touch. I'm working fine. Okay, I'm having touch. I'm working fine.

I'm having trouble. Twitter's market cap, like the closing market cap, is one-seventh the size of Facebook, but they do one-thirtieth the amount of Facebook's revenue. So yes, that would be a much lower stock, like maybe a single digit. Matt, how do we short Elon's private Twitter once it's not listed? Oh, that's a great question. I mean, probably like by – I was going to say by Facebook, but that's actually – Not a good idea.

To an entirely different business. Short the lenders who are not going to be paid. They'll be fine. Yeah, I don't know. Who lent that money, Morgan Stanley and who else? Morgan Stanley is the lead bank. I want to say, no, not Goldman, because Goldman was on Twitter's side, I think. I forget.

It's just like a random hodgepodge of everyone. How does that deal get done? It's like one phone call, right? There's no due diligence. What, to the banks? Elon needs $13 billion. Do we want to be $3 billion of that? Yes or no?

Right? Oh, yeah. They're not like looking at documents. No. I mean they're doing it now. They're looking at documents. Now after the fact. How high up does that decision go?

Does like James Gorman get that phone call? James Gorman has been involved. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Okay. That's like they're going to – like the richest – like back when this happened, it looked like a good idea. I think they were – no, but I think they say yes and like they're laughing.

They're like, let's see what happens kind of thing. I think there's some truth to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looked like he wouldn't do it. All right. Strange times. How are we doing? Almost there.

Not great, Bob. Whoa, SFX. No, I got everything. Oh, my goodness. Are you ready? You can make me do that? Now I'm ready. You got something to say that's going to make me do that?

Where's Beyonce? I didn't know. All right. Yeah. Let's do this. Let that sink in, John. What episode number is this? I'm glad you asked.

Is it nice? Episode 68. Oh my God. Episode 68? Almost. This should have been the 69th. Welcome to The Compound and Friends. All opinions expressed by me, Michael Batnick, and our castmates are solely our own opinions and do not

reflect the opinion of Ritholtz Wealth Management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon for any investment decisions. Clients of Ritholtz Wealth Management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast. Today's show is brought to you by CraneShares. Michael, something momentous might be in the works. Brendan Ahern, who writes ChinaLastNight.com, which is CraneShares, I guess, what would you call it? A newsletter? Yeah.

An email? Okay. Brendan is reporting that President Xi stated that China is willing to work with the United States, along with President Biden's comment that the U.S. does not seek conflict with China. The positive comments paved the way for a meeting in Indonesia at the G20. The heads of both Germany and France will also visit China next month. When is that? I don't really see news like this anywhere else, but I get all of my information about what's happening in Asia from Brendan Ahern.

I do the same. Three-minute reads. So this is the kind of stuff that he's putting out that maybe you don't read on The Wall Street Journal or maybe you don't see on CNBC, but pretty much every day there's something momentous happening in China, in Asia, with the Hang Seng, in Hong Kong, with the Yuan. Brendan Ahern is covering it. I would urge our listeners to go to ChinaLastNight.com, subscribe to the email blast. And while you're there, if you're interested in CraneShares'

suite of ETFs, all of the information is available to you. Sound good? Are you still here? Sounds great. What do you mean? Sounds great. All right. Thanks to Queen shares. Welcome to the biggest podcast in finance. What do you think about that statement?

I think it's true. Oh, my God. I'm sorry. I'm watching the video of Elon with the sink. Is this for real? None of it's funny. I don't get any of that humor. I like that he has a good sense of humor, though, because the richest person on earth, you would not think, would also be like always inclined to make the joke.

He will always go for the joke. And I kind of like that. What do you think about that? Is that a good sense of humor? He has a sense of humor. He has a sense. There is a sense of humor. So he's going to make a joke. Yeah.

That's what Dan Greenhouse did to us last week. I go, on air, you fired up to be here? He's like, let me put it this way. I am aware that I'm here. You got the first 30 seconds of the show. So another Syosset guy. Another Syosset guy. That's right.

It's a very Long Island podcast. It very much is. It's inescapable that I'm from Long Island. So is Michael. Barry Ritholtz is also from Long Island. I'm feeling so left out. Where are you from? Where'd you go? Richmond, Virginia. Same thing.

Long Island of the South. Yeah, what's the difference? Alright, we're so excited to have you guys here today. When we planned this, it feels like three years ago now, I just said, like, the two of you as a duo in whatever that you do, and what was the last thing I heard you guys do together? Were you on Joe's show? Joe and Tracy's show? We were on Joe and Tracy's show. Yeah, you were. And what was the last thing I heard you guys do together? We want Joe show Joe and Tracy show.

We're on Joe and Tracy show. Yeah. You were Joe. Matt was Joe. Matt played the role of Joe. Yeah. Okay. Um,

we did a book event, uh, for my book launch. Matt was my in conversation buddy. Um, and the bookstore, as far as I know, as far as we know,

they did record it, but I think that recording is lost to the pages. Yeah. Um, they watching fixes us. They, they congratulated us on being recording is lost to the pages. Yeah. Blockchain fixes us. They congratulated us on being the Rolling Stones of book launches. Okay. Of the McNally-Jackson Seaport.

Okay. Actually, we wrote intros for you. Let me do that real quick. Mary Childs is the author of The Bomb King, a bestselling book about Bill Gross and PIMCO. Mary also co-hosts the Planet Money podcast at NPR. Gross and Pimco. Mary also co-hosts the Planet Money podcast at NPR. Prior to that, she was a senior reporter at Barron's, the Financial Times, and Bloomberg News. You've done them all. I've made the rounds, yes. No New York Times yet?

No. No, Dealbook never called you, or? I can't confirm they never called, but I have never worked there. But you've been in the mix for a while. Yes, thank you. When did I meet you? Oh, wow. 20... Long time ago. 12? 11? Yeah, yeah. you've been in the mix for a while yes thank you when did I meet you oh wow 20 long time ago

12 11 yeah yeah 12 something like that you remember when like we all used to hang out yes remember that

so how come you guys don't like me anymore I don't think anyone hangs out anymore I have a child now so that that's what it is yeah

we were all like late 20s early 30s and we would like do stuff and it was normal to get drinks after work. Cardiff is trying to keep it going, but I feel like nobody ever replies to the email. No.

That's the most tragic thing I've heard. You're automatically out on everything, right? I'm not on that email. Okay. Let me do you. Matt is a Bloomberg Opinion columnist. If you're not reading Matt, I don't even know what your story is. I think it's been said that you are the best writer or the best columnist in finance.

I know you don't say that, but it has been said about you like many times. The Times said it. The New York Times said it. Your daily newsletter, which I read every word of, is called Money Stuff, and it covers a wide range of financial-related topics. You are a former Goldman Investment banker and M&A lawyer at Wachtel, Lipton, Rosen, and another Jew. All right.

Let me tell you the first question. True or false? By the way, you wrote that intro last week because I now am also the best-selling author of the crypto story

in Bloomberg Business. Oh, we're going there. We're going to get there. The cover model. We have a little bit of ground to cover first. True or false. Post financial crisis deal breaker starring Matt Levine and best Levin was the greatest financial media site of all time. True or false.

You're not. It's true. Yeah. I mean, I loved it. It was, it was best. And I called it're nodding. Yeah, it's true. I loved it. It was, Beth and I called it our art project.

Dude, that was f***ing crazy. The two of you were dueling back and forth. It was so good. I loved it. Were you posting

like three, four, five times a day? No. She was. She was, yeah. She was a blogger. She was like a true blogger. She was the first,

in my opinion, first like true blogger. Not like the was the first in my in my opinion first like true blogger not like the guys working in finance like barry or me but like just somebody covering finance i think she's she was like a gawker blogger but about finance right and that's before alphaville probably right yeah yeah uh that was incredible you ever you ever like you ever think of doing something with Bess again? Yes. She's all Trump now. All Trump all the time.

That's one way to put it. It's a big business. There'll be another financial crisis. She'll come back to us. We might be in one now. Yeah. We might have already started one. No, I thought we un-recessed.

For the time being. Anyway, for people that maybe weren't reading financial shit at the time, how long were you still? Because the whole site is like died yeah no i mean like but 2011 to like 20 what 13 that's when i was there that was your she was she was amazing she was amazing but you but that was where you were discovered like by discovered people well yeah okay that's right and then bloomberg just came with a bag, and you were like – Where do I sign? Bess, this has been fun, but I'm going to do this for a career now.

Yeah. All right. I get it. All right. But she's at Vanity Fair, so you guys are – all right. Shout out to Bess. I thought that was amazing. All right.

That was your big intro. Let's talk about Bitcoin. You just wrote a 40,000 word magnum opus on who's magnum alright but you made one mistake

the title is what is Bitcoin the correct title of your piece is what even is Bitcoin so the title is not what is Bitcoin

the title is the crypto story but alright I'm going to leave now the colloquial title is what was crypto we called it what is crypto or sometimes title is The Crypto Story. All right. I'm going to leave now. The colloquial title is What Was Crypto. Yeah, we called it What Is Crypto or sometimes What Was Crypto, but the actual title on the – All right. So time out.

So I read that you're only the second columnist in 93 years to do the cover story for Businessweek. No, no, no. What the hell was that for? That's the second time that Businessweek has taken an entire issue and handed it to one writer. Oh, there's nothing else in the physical magazine? Stop it. It's so second time that Businessweek has taken an entire issue and handed it to one writer. Oh, there's nothing else in the physical magazine? Stop it. It's so good, though.

What else would you need? So who was the other? Who was the other? The other was Paul Ford, who wrote a novella called What is Code, which is why we called this What is Crypto? Nobody got that. Well, that's not the actual title. We, like, internally. So how could you write 40,000 words and be all, and not, no, no, no, no,

and not have an opinion on Bitcoin? This is my job. Give me something. I'm an opinion- No, you do something. You come out of it somewhat constructive. Yeah, I think I'm somewhat constructive. I think that I am, like, very skeptical.

Like, I feel like it's a very, like, hyped thing full of Ponzi schemes, and I try to be aware of that. But I also think it's interesting. It's full of interesting people. If you put enough smart people working on it, there's enough enthusiasm for it among smart people that it feels like it's got to be generative of something, and it has been generative of something. I have been saying that, and I keep hearing other people say that. something and it has been i have been saying that and i keep hearing other people say that but the longer this goes on for with no usable consumer application um the more like absurd that statement is going to be i hear you and i think that one thing that i sort of took away from this

is that uh you don't really need a consumer application right i mean i like the sort of what the vcs are saying but like um they weren't saying that shit three years ago, though. No, I mean, they were talking about it. They are pitching consumer applications. But I do think that, and a thing that I spend a lot of time on in the piece is the crypto financial system is really fun for crypto people. And it attracts a lot of people from traditional finance. people from traditional finance. And I think that they often think that they have built a better financial system just from a perspective of like trading and like usefulness and like ease of setting things up and like openness and, and like, you know, collateral liquidation and all this like

mechanical stuff. And if you believe them and they believe themselves, like the next step is to sort of ingest some of the regular financial system into that. And so like all these crypto exchanges are like, we're going to wrap and tokenize stocks because that'll be a better experience for trading stocks than the stock exchange. And if they're right, then like, like if all you've done is built like, you know, industrial financial technology, like that's something that's not nothing. That's a big business. Yeah. What makes the coin go up though? That's the, that's the problem with that. So if they tackle settlement or if they replace DTC or whatever, those are all very useful things.

And probably blockchain is better for a lot of it or at least as good. But it's a huge pain in the ass. And what does that have anything to do with it? I would say it's not a huge pain in the ass. It's not done yet. I think they would say compared to like setting up an ISDA with JP Morgan, setting up a hedge fund on Ethereum is easy. They would say it's not a pain. It's trade done yet. I think they would say, compared to like setting up an ISDA with JP Morgan, setting up a hedge fund on Ethereum is easy. They would say it's trade-offs, but I think, and then like what makes the coin go up?

Well, you know, you have like this DeFi stuff where it's like the coin is interlinked with the actual trading. Well, we'll get to the coins. But as far as like real world application, Matt, what if the crypto financial system doesn't have to build all the way back down to the real world to be valuable? What if the world can come to crypto? Yeah build all the way back down to the real world to be valuable?

What if the world can come to crypto? Yeah, sure. Did you even read the piece? No. No, he didn't. No. But that's how Matt ended it. No spoilers.

No spoilers. I didn't read it because I'm into girls. No. Listen, I will probably read it, but I wanted to talk to you about it because I read people writing about it. There are people writing articles about your article. He read people that – He read the headline. But the takeaway is – I told you this.

The crypto boys love you even though you're not like – One of them. You're not one of them and you're not trying to be and you don't pander to them. I find that fascinating because the crypto community is not known for both sides-ism. Like they don't like when people are skeptical. But I think that, I mean, I think I make an effort to understand it and to try to take it seriously. Yeah.

And I also think that like, you know, someone tweeted, Bitcoin and Ethereum went up the day it published and someone tweeted, is Matt Levine pumping our bags? And I was like, well, like at some level, if you publish 40,000 words about crypto, then like, that's just good for crypto. Like they make money, you know? Has anybody from Washington reached out to you from either party because they're constantly talking about creating rules for crypto and who's going to regulate it? Do they want you in these conversations at all?

I'm not sure that nobody has reached out to me, but I'm not like talking to Joe Biden every week. No, I don't think Joe Biden even knows that this exists. Or Gary Gensler, but yeah. Okay. No, I mean, basically no. Because from my perspective, it would seem that if securities regulators

want to make the case to Congress that they should have the leadership role in regulating this. Like the stuff that you are doing is making it more digestible so that they can make those points. Like I feel like that's an obvious thing. I feel like they're going to take one of Matt's lines. ICOs are like if the Wright brothers sold air miles to finance inventing the airplane. That's one of the lines I'm proud of, and I keep quoting myself.

That's a good line. That's pretty good. All right, you read the piece, though. You wrote some questions for Matt. I literally took Matt's freaking lines so we could talk about them. All right, let's go. What do you got? So maybe let's talk about this.

You said instead of all the technology, like just the social buy-in was impressive. To quote Matt directly to his face, he said, that social fact that Bitcoin was accepted by many millions of people as having a lot of value might be the most impressive thing about Bitcoin, much more than the stuff about hashing. Yeah, I mean, like...

It started at zero. Oh, yeah. It started like a guy typed it, you know, like just made it up. And, right. I mean, like, I started thinking these things when GameStop happened because, like, GameStop is so weird, right? And it's so, like.

Undervalued. Like, people will tell, people will, like, have a fundamental story or they'll have, like, a weird technical story. But, like, fundamentally, GameStop is, like, a bunch of people on the internet were, like, we want to make this stock go up and then they did, right? than they did. Right. And like, in some ways that's like almost unprecedented because like everywhere else, like every other bubble sort of leads with a fundamental story that gets kind of blown out of proportion. And this kind of leads with just like, it's fun to be on a Reddit together. And I don't know, I feel like Bitcoin is the precedent for that. Like Bitcoin is the thing where people are like, Oh, just like a community of people on the internet can make a thing go up with no like cash flows or fundamental story.

It's called the pyramid scheme. This has existed for – it's not a Ponzi. This is what I hear a lot of people get wrong. You can't call the coins a Ponzi because – well, you can. But a pyramid – and I don't mean pyramid scheme in the negative sense. I mean – no, no, no. It's a compliment. I feel like I've said it several times.

I don't mean Ponzi in the negative sense. Actually, multilevel marketing is a better way to say it. Meaning, what's the first thing you do after you buy a particular crypto coin? Talk about it. You tweet it. Talk about it. Yeah, obviously. You tweet it and you immediately become an evangelist because the more people you tell about it, the higher likelihood you'll get other people to buy it and put the price

higher. So it has a built-in MLM kind of vibe to it. You could argue GameStop does also. All stocks do. All stocks do. You need people to be using your product. I mean, more generously, you compared it to Facebook, which is like you just, if you told someone 30 years ago that there would be a company that's just monetized friendship connection, that it would, it would sound a little stupid,

but that's like such a large part of our economy, our stock market now. But stocks generally, I mean, stocks are businesses like the GameStop aside, like companies, stock prices. A picture of a monkey can be a business. I guess so. But we could also talk about Ponzi's like non Ponzi, not, not made of S-esque, like Dror Pilek, who you linked to, wrote an amazing piece called In Praise of Ponzi's. And I don't think he was trying to dunk on crypto. He was just –

Yeah, he was serious. The cat's out of the bag. This is how it works now. Yeah. Right. It's like – Also, it's – you could do a very reductive – easily do a reductive argument like everything's a Ponzi if you think about it. And then people go, hmm go hmm well that's dumb

right everything has like the element of like like anyone who buys stocks almost anyone who buys stocks is not doing it purely for like cash flows but for like the hope that they could sell it to someone at a higher price and like that like you can sort of like isolate that element and like you know pump that element up and then you get kind of crypto or frankly gamestop right but it's like there's always they all exist yeah if you want cash flow buy it buy uh buy a vending machine right but that's not why you're buying stocks you're buying stocks because you think the cash flow will mean that other people will pay a higher price for it so there's a required you could easily you know have a situation where you think the cash flows will be below what the market does, but you think the price will be higher, right?

And then you buy the stock, right? Do you envision, as a result of this work that you've done, do you envision an evolution where the Ponzi element either gets regulated out of existence or enough people have lost money that nobody falls for it anymore? Yeah, I mean, I think we're— And then it gets more professionalized. So I think yes, but I also think that the Ponzi element, like what DroidPro does, the Ponzi element is a feature, not a bug in a way. I mean, I think there's this view that in some of crypto, or like in Web3,

there's some token that corresponds to some business or market or protocol or something. And you use the thing both because you like the service, but also because the token you think will go up. And I think that there's like, you know, like people make the case that that's like, like that is a Ponzi element, but like they make the case that that's good. That like allows you to start and scale a business. Well, that's, you guys had a jaw-dropping moment with Sam Bankman-Fried over the summer. That was, I think, the podcast of the year. That went viral.

That was the top, right? I think that that was where we hit the top. Do you think people listened to it? Right after that, the altcoins crashed. Matt was like, wait, wait, wait. I'm hopeful that I topped and bottomed the Bitcoin market. You might have. So wait, so when Matt coined, when are we getting that?

No, hold on. So wait. So you guys were talking to Sam Bankman for you. I wasn't there, but I love that you've read. It was Tracy, but we are fungible. You are not fungible. Shout out to Tracy. I'm fungible Tracy. And he got into this tangent.

I don't even think you guys asked him. No, I did. You did? All right. I asked him about deal forming, and he was like, imagine a box and it issues tokens. And then the tokens go up. But yeah. No, but he was like. Did he say bag of air? People will put tokens into the box and take out more tokens.

And then other people will put more tokens in after. And that's like, that's the business. And every altcoin within like 48 hours of that podcast dropping no yeah oh yeah you like you could look at a chart and look at the date that came out you did it congrats well you got the head of ftx to basically be like yeah there's there's a lot of there's a lot of altcoin ponzi's uh basically so very sly very s. Was that your strategy all along? I don't even think that he would dispute any of that. I think that like – He said it.

He said it, yeah. No, like your characterization, I mean. I just think that like – this is what I talk about when I talk about the crypto financial system being interesting. Like he goes to Washington and is like, our model for credit on an exchange is better than what like the LME has when they blow up like the nickel market. Right. Yeah. Like you should use our financial system to trade stocks and like,

you know, treasury futures rather than using the traditional financial system. Like, right. And then if you're like, by the way, are all these all kinds of funds? He'd be like,

sure. Yeah. Whatever. Right. It's interesting. Yeah. It's like, yes, that's whatever. Right. Some good ideas, some bad. Yeah, it's like, yes, that's another thing that's also happening.

Like we have like real technology and then also there's like this penny stock circus going on. It's a market. Because Matt made the case that this is the era of modern databases, but the databases that we're using like are not so modern. And so crypto is trying to, or blockchain, whatever, is trying to modernize it.

Yeah. And when I say databases, I mean, like, things like the loan market where famously you fax confirmations over to trade loans. But also, like, you know, the real estate market where you, like, sit in a room and, like, sign documents and file them in, like, the county clerk's office. What about just banks? Like, JP Morgan has to talk to bank of america when you want to send an ach or whatever and it's like that stuff once some of that stuff has been updated or at

least yeah i mean city bank 900 million dollar mistake like would that still would that have gone better tell us we've gone worse right i mean this you need yes because you need judgment yeah you need judgment it's nice to have a distributed ledger and it's nice to have decentralization and it's nice to have algorithmic rules versus like things written down on a piece of paper that have to be consulted. I completely understand all of that. However, when you send money somewhere, there has to be a human being whose job it is to let you like fix it if you make a mistake. to let you like fix it if you make a mistake. The way that some of the bleeding edge crypto people think about it is the code is law, and if you make a mistake, it's an irreversible mistake. And I don't think that works for finance.

I don't think so either. And I think if you look at like, I mean, there are definitely people who are like crazily into that perspective. Yeah, probably a small number, but they're loud. Yeah, not even a small number. Like it's a big part of crypto, but it's not the only part. Trade, probably a small number, but they're loud. Yeah, not even a small number. Like it's a big part of crypto, but it's not the only part. Okay.

Trade corrections are a good thing. Like to be able to undo something. Code is law. I'm just saying code is law does not work with real human beings. It just, it doesn't. And you could argue with it until the cows come home.

Flip side is that they would say that DeFi worked a lot better. It did. When all of the things got liquidated and all of the loans to Three Arrows and all of that thing that went kablooey. DeFi never got lied to. What do you mean?

There was no fraud? I think in DeFi there was a lot of automatic liquidations and formulaic collateral where margin calls without margin calls. You don't have to trust anybody in DeFi. Automatic liquidations and formulaic collateral where like – Margin calls without margin calls. Yeah, so everything kind of works. You don't have to trust anybody in DeFi.

Whereas in like – I think that's the point. The centralized crypto platforms like Celsius and Voyager were like, everything's great. And then they filed for bankruptcy the next day. Well, all right. So this is an interesting thing that the crypto people say, and maybe you agree with this. Maybe you agree with this. The collapse of Celsius and Voyager are proof that decentralization is superior because those were the two big centralized platforms and those were the two that had them out there. They weren't that too big.

They're the two that went bankrupt, right? I mean they're – Yeah. I'm saying like – Coinbase and FTX didn't go bankrupt, right? Like those two went bankrupt. They were centralized and they were – And they were making human decisions.

It was not a blockchain that decided to give that hedge fund the loan without looking at its documents. They were not – I mean I would not say they were doing a great job of disclosing what those decisions were. But maybe that's the point, that like there are bad loans and not enough due diligence going on and taking people's words for it and none of that exists in DeFi. You said – Right. None of it exists in DeFi. But it's also – it's like of that exists in DeFi. You said- Right, none of it exists in DeFi, but it's also, it's like, you know, does that exist in traditional finance?

Yes, but also like traditional finance has some defenses against Celsius and Voyager because it's like regulated, it has like disclosure requirements. So you can kind of take two lessons from that. You can be like, it should be more like DeFi or it should be more like regulated traditional finance. What about this idea of you wrote crypto built an efficient system to make the customers of a business also its shareholders, which- Yeah ponzi thing to some people might sound dystopian but like what about early adopters of of of a podcast for example like getting to share in the fruits of

the economic incentives or or growth that come along with it as an example maybe a bad one um i mean like the problem with this is it turns your podcast into, like, a little bit of a Ponzi scheme, right? Which is good and bad, right? I mean, like, yes, it, like, gets you listeners, right? But, like, the listeners that you get who are, like, I'm in this for the money, like, it's like a mixed bag. Yeah, that's not a great example. A better example. What about bands with music?

Yeah, look, I mean, right. Again, like, I don't, like. Does every band need a token? Yes. Does every band need a token? Right, again, like – Does every band need a token? Yes. Does every band need a token?

Like probably people made money, you know, like – and it's like hard to make money in the music business. And if like you have like some bizarre new stream of revenue, then great. But like do you need your relationship with music to be like I make money from listening to this music? No, but I think the one that they point to is like – okay, so the platforms, for example. The guy that did Gangnam Style, right? Billions of views, right? And the audience who watched billions of hours and all the money went to Google, YouTube. Some of them, well, I don't know what the—

I don't know how much that guy made. What was his name? Psyche? I'm sure he's fine. I think he's fine. He's fine. But it is kind of like, you know when you discover a band early and you want the street cred? It's that.

So you want the thing to succeed because you're like, oh, I listened to this artist before everyone else. It's just the repurposing of indie cred. A lot of stuff in crypto is like taking concepts like indie cred and like somehow trying to turn them into money, which is like gross. But also like— Here's the grossest thing that I think. You guys tell me if you could top this. The grossest thing about crypto to me is how much it resembles a classic stock market pump and dump. And stock market pump and dumps have been going on for 500 years. So it's not like crypto –

That's the grossest thing? No, no, no. Where such and such famous venture capitalist – Oh, yeah. Such and such famous venture capitalist does an airdrop to 10 of their best friends and then makes the token public a week later so that their friends can sell out of it. They spend a week doing interviews and talking about how this token is the future. And they're not even early adopters. Nobody's even using the token for anything.

It's almost just like – They're just marks. Here, I'm giving you this. It's going to be worth 1,000% more next week, and you're free to do whatever you want with it. And there's no regulation, and there's nothing stopping any of it. There's not even disclosure rules. It's so early that you can basically do that right now,

and it is being done all the time. And that's the process to me. People are not like, well, not this week. No. Yeah, well, not this week. No. Yeah. Well, not last week. Right. It's like hopefully the popping of the bubble takes some of that.

Yeah, so I'm not like accusing anyone of anything specific, but like there are notable examples of like new blockchain launching. Oh, guess who owns a set of penny? And now it's available to the public at a dollar and the public thinks like they're early, but they're actually, they're the mob. Yeah. And there's some like lawyering around not doing that too egregiously these days, but yeah. Just do a little version of this. Just do it subtly.

All right. So anyway, you are beloved. And as a result of this piece, I think you are beloved now by the crypto community even more than you already were. We found this tweet. I wanted to throw it up there. John, put up the Star Wars.

I'm sure somebody sent this to you. Oh, yeah, I have seen this. You've seen this? Mary, have you seen this? I don't know. I haven't even seen it yet. Okay, I'm seeing some cliffs. They're gorgeous.

That's great. That's pretty great. Oh, that's wonderful. Matt as C-3PO. So these are Ewoks carrying Matt as C-3PO on a throne. That actually gets – I feel like M&A Twitter is too far behind. And the Ewoks are fund managers, quants, sell-side researchers, crypto skeptics, crypto maxis, fixed income.

I mean, this is the reality. It's true. Matt is a Harry Styles of finance. Should we frame this in your home? No. I mean, maybe. Josh, can we send this to him? Yeah, we'll do it. I almost, this is the reality. It's true. Mattis and Harry Styles. Should we frame this in your home? No. I mean, maybe. Josh, can we send this to him? Yeah, we'll do it.

I almost feel like we have to. Yeah. All right. Are we done with crypto? Do you want to do, do you have any takeaways from crypto that we didn't get to that you discovered from writing the piece?

None. Seriously? No. Yes, there's so much more that you didn't get in the piece. Any takeaways? I don't know. I mean, like.

How many thousands of words were cut? And that was just at your first pass? So many thousands. Oh, they edit. I didn't write about. I mean, I wrote a little, but I didn't. Like the piece doesn't have anything on. Has almost nothing on regulation.

Did you get to NFTs in it? A little bit. Yeah. That's when I knew the whole thing was bullshit, by the way. The whole thing? It was the whole thing. I'm pretty mean to NFTs because my experience of NFTs is pretty stupid. You buy NFTs?

Oh, yeah, I own a bunch of apps. No, but my experience of reading about it and seeing stories about NFTs, it's always some idiot being like, I got a painting and I lit it on fire and I made an NFT of it. You do that joke for the 400th time. Like, it's so annoying. Volume on the NFT marketplaces is down 90%, which should surprise very few. No, it's not.

It's like 97. 97%. Yeah. It was nice while it lasted. I think that element, though, is where things really got out of control. And that, like that, in hindsight, that should have been when you said, okay, this is. Yeah. And the NFT as a sort of technical concept is interesting, right?

You can try to have different assets. Oh, I don't hate the concept. But the NFT in practice is like cartoons of apes and burned paintings. Yeah. So I don't hate the concept, and I love art. I just felt the trading of these things. It's still,

the numbers are still big. I'm looking at, at doing, cause they've got like analytics on this. $286 million in October. It's not nothing.

Of NFT trading? Yeah. I mean, it's down from 4.9 billion at the peak. People trading 4.9 billion. But it's still, it's almost $300 million.

It's not nothing. It's not zero. It's not zero. I don't understand. But yeah, I mean like I think people bought a lot of you know I think there are stories about people who paid

like $40 million or something. And by the way now it's like worth $40. A lot of that is so if you look at ETH it's not quite as low. Obviously ETH has declined to the dollar

but 202,000 ETH in October. At the peak it was 1.6 million. So still quite a – Do the celebrities that hopped on the gravy train deserve the amount of scorn they're getting now? Weren't they just like doing what celebrities always do? Just, hey, it's money and it's a hot thing that people are into.

Are they required to be regulatory experts? It's a good question. I walked past a poster of Rashida Jones with some credit card and I was like just looking in her poster eyes like, do you like this card? Are you happy that you're here? Do you actually use this card? How did you feel in this moment having your picture taken and knowing that everyone's going to see it? Like I really like Rashida Jones to be clear. But like, yeah, it's kind of not dissimilar.

It's the same idea of just like I'm going to monetize a little bit of my brand and just see how it goes. Like they're not inventing the coins. No. Or maybe in one or two cases. No. same idea of just like i'm going to monetize a little bit of my brand and just see how it goes like they're not inventing the coins no or maybe in one or two cases but they're just like alec baldwin didn't invent capital one right it's fine why did uh kim kardashian get in trouble but matt damon and uh tom brady didn't sexism is that what it is easy no i just okay no it's because she because she she put it on her personal Instagram in a way that made it seem like she was actually enthusiastic about whatever she was showing. Whereas they were like on a commercial for it. Damon didn't seem enthusiastic? They didn't even retweet their own.

No, look, I hear you. But like they were on commercials that read as commercials and she was posting it on her personal Instagram in a way that read as commercials. But she posts all ads on her personal Instagram. Yeah, no, look, I don't. She didn't say this is an ad. Right. And they were on an ad. Is that sensible?

But she always, I mean, I feel like I don't have that much fluency in Kim's Instagram, but I do think she has to hashtag ads. I think it's a little sketchy. Okay, I stand by my initial answer. Like, I think you could have looked at her. You know how crazy this is?

What would have been the difference if she just wrote hashtag ad on the Instagram post? $25,000. Then she's good. Was it fine? $250,000? Whatever it was. No, it was like a million bucks.

She makes that in 10 minutes. We haven't spoken about stable coins. Do they need to exist? Is Venmo good enough? I know those are different things, but. I mean, I think this is, again, stable coins need to exist for a crypto financial system. Because the problem with crypto is that the coins are incredibly volatile and if you want to have a crypto financial system that is useful for trading stuff you want to be able to put dollars into that system and connecting

like the blockchain to like your checking account is is is still kind of difficult and so the stable coin is the way to do that i think it has to exist because nobody wants to pay taxes uh yeah there's probably some truth to that right it's like you go to dollars, you owe money. If you go to stablecoins, you owe money. You do? But who's necessarily reporting it? Who's paying attention? Well, if you're an anonymous account on the blockchain,

are you reporting it to the IRS? They're counting on self-reporting up until a certain dollar amount, and then they're telling the platforms, over this dollar amount, we actually need you to furnish this information. Yeah, but if you're up until a certain dollar amount, and then they're telling the platforms, over this dollar amount, we actually need you to furnish this information. Yeah, but if you're trading on a DeFi platform, you're not necessarily, you might be... Matt, let me...

I'm not giving you criminal advice. Let me put you on the spot. In terms of the vision that crypto people have for the future, zero to 100, do they get half the way there, 30, 70? I guess one of the points in this, as I talk about this thing, is there's no vision that crypto people have.

Like, there's a lot of different directions that people have taken crypto ideas in. And, like, some of these people are like, I'm going to build a fast trading system, right? And, like, those people, I don't know. Like, they might get 60% of the way there. Other people are like. El Salvador. Or, like, you're going to own a share of every book that you read.

And, like, those people, like, are, like, zero. Like, if they're right, like, I don't want to be't want to be here yeah like that's terrible um doesn't it sound tedious also like that's like why do we have to tokenize everything i get that some things it would be cool if you did but i think i think there's like a sort of like door room impulse to be like faster so we can make money out of like everything in our lives and it's like no like you should sometimes just not everything is not everything is finance it's like, no, you should sometimes just enjoy both. Not everything is finance. Alright, I'm with you on that. Elon

and Twitter. So we did the sync thing, but like, what do you think is going to happen? I think Trump is going to be on the platform Saturday, and all hell will be breaking loose by Monday morning. What do you think? I've been talking to a lot of journalists that are like, wait, I think I've reached the end of the road. Maybe not just because of Elon, but like a lot of people I don't know, collecting exit strategies and just like, it's not that fun anymore.

I'm moving my Twitter account to Canada. What is the exit strategy from just shut up? LinkedIn, my friend. Just shut up already. LinkedIn, here we come. I'm very serious. It's the best platform right now. I made an exit from Twitter two and a half years ago.

Yeah, you're a trendsetter. You're fine. Look at you. Life is better. Yeah. Like, not like, oh, I hate Twitter and I'll be back on it in a month. I never went back. Yeah.

I've admired your fortitude from afar. You know what happens that's kind of interesting? You become, like, more well-known if you have a big following and you just leave. Yes. Because people are like, what's up with that guy? Right. There are only two reasons a person leaves Twitter. Things are very bad

or things are very good. Yeah. Well, I mean, do you think that all the people that are like, oh, if,

if he lets the Nazis back on, I'm done tweeting. They're still going to tweet. I mean, addictions are strong. Yeah. Do you know, do you know of anyone,

anyone, uh, high profile that's like left and stayed off? Josh Brown. Josh Brown. No, only, besides me. I know.

I feel like I do, but like not, I feel like if you leave in a huff, you're back in 20 minutes. Oh, I didn't leave in a huff. I think like some people are like, okay, that's enough for me. Yeah. And they're fine. But like the people who are like, I'm quitting tomorrow. Like they're not quitting. And make a big announcement of it.

Yeah. You make an announcement, you're back tomorrow. You had a great tweet though. And so I do see tweets because what happens is I get all my news. Does someone print them out and have them to you? No. Google News. And then Google News is constantly sucking in stories.

And like a third of all articles are about somebody's tweet. Yeah. So what's that? That's true. Almost every article is based on tweets. That's right. Okay. Let's put up Matt's tweet.

Uh-oh. Okay. Oh, people took this seriously. I was joking and people got like, oh my God. You set this up. Describe this, please. What's going on here? Okay.

So there were two ways, like at the end. I said the end. Like who knows, maybe we'll still go around. Oh no, it's the end. There seemed to be two ways that Elon Musk could get out of the Twitter deal at the end. One was that like his banks would not finance it, which seemed very unlikely. And the other was that the US government would block the deal because they worried that it was a national security risk. Because Elon Musk spent like the last couple of weeks just tweeting Russian and Chinese propaganda. Yeah.

Which is like just like a total left turn for him. Like he didn't have a long history of being like a Russian asset. But then like for the last like two weeks, he was like, you know what? Russia really should have Ukraine. And people were like. No, he said, let's put up for a Twitter poll. Yeah. Right.

But he also like, he like had lunch with the ft and they were like what do you think about china and he's like i think china should own taiwan uh it's just like bizarre stuff and uh and um when you see what when you when you see where tesla's profits come from it's not that bizarre no no i agree i agree like this is a long-standing worry that people have about him that he is too that he is too beholden to china but the russia stuff is kind of out of thin air. High oil price is also good for selling Teslas. True. Right. So that argues for

continued war, I guess. Alright, but your tweet. The point is that people thought that he was doing this intentionally in order to go to the government and to stopping him from buying Twitter, which he doesn't want to do in this theory. And I don't think that's really true. I also don't think that the government could could stop him from like at this point, could like really stop him from doing anything.

Has he DM'd you? I mean, I feel like I'm not supposed to comment on these things. But like, I don't want to say that. He said yes or no. He said we kind of hang out. No, we don't. With Oculus. I think it's like reasonably clear that we don't. When he's like, we kind of hang out. No, we don't. With Oculus. I think it's reasonably clear that we don't.

When he comes to Westchester, you hang out. Yeah, exactly. But no, so this is a story. There's a Bloomberg story about how the Biden administration was considering whether they could do anything about Elon Musk. The headline is, U.S. Ways Security Reviews for Musk Deals, Including Twitter Buy. And you quote tweeted the article, and you were like, OMG, he's going to pull it off. So I didn't really think he was trying to do it. I didn't really think he'd pull it off, but I was joking.

That tweet went, though. People were like— Is this the worst purchase in the history of purchases? That's an exaggeration. But Facebook is down 70-plus percent. Snap's down 1,000 percent. I mean, Snap's basically negative at this point. And this guy just top-ted the shit out of the stock.

So his timing is really bad, but also like, um, uh, but he did sell Tesla. So it's actually, yeah, his timing is bad,

but, um, he has some sort of longterm vision for the, like, but like, I don't know. Probably not. No,

but like, you got the fiance button congratulations he wait he doesn't have any plan no he makes it up as it goes along but it usually works out yeah he like he's gonna make money improv i think test like i think facebook being down you know because they've decided to go all in on like a legless metaverse is like in some ways good for Twitter. Like still need to be a social network. And like Facebook is just burning it's down. But I don't know, like the other thing about it is like, it's like owning a sports team, right? Like he may or may not like end up making money from this, but like, I agree with that. I agree with that.

Enjoy is like, he's like, he loves Twitter. Think about the scale like when a billionaire buys an NBA franchise and everyone's like, oh, they're overpaying. He has the money. That's what he wants to use it for.

It's different from an NBA franchise because there is a market for billionaires buying NBA franchises. So if you buy one and you're tired of it, you can sell it.

Nobody's going to buy this. And now it's $4 billion for an NBA team that's $40 for Twitter. Yes, but he's also the richest man in the world. Not anymore. By the way, when does Twitter go public again?

Oh, no. It'll be merged with Tesla inside of a year. He said no. He said on the conference call. I know he said no. That's how you know it's going to happen. Do you not live on Earth? Have you not watched anything?

That's true. I think the answer is a normal. Oh, he said no? I think the answer is a normal private equity. I think it's like three to five years. I think it's like a normal, like he has co-investors. And he also like, he's very comfortable running public companies, right? Yeah.

One really, but like he's not like averse to being public. He'll sell the whole thing to SoftBank. I actually think. He wants to run it. He's gonna take it public. He's gonna sell whole thing to SoftBank. I actually think. He wants to run it. He's going to take it public. He's going to sell, you know, 80% and he's going to remain like the sort of God King of Twitter while,

you know, cashing out his money. I think he's going to double the revenue. And I'm not, it's not hard. That's my point. They're, they're barely,

they're barely trying all this time. So I think he can like double the revenue, but I don't know how you can't grow the user base. No. Then I don't know how you go much further than that. Like if he just monetized it, the amount of views he has at the rate that let's say Instagram is monetized. But doesn't that mean that's a much more annoying experience for users? I think it's the most horrific experience you could have on the planet.

So then that's less users. So I don't know. I love Instagram ads. Like that's where I buy all my clothes from. That's how you do your shopping? That's Michael's whole wardrobe. My sister says that. So I don't know. I love Instagram ads. Like that's where I buy all my clothes from. That's how you do your shopping. That's Michael's whole wardrobe. My sister says that.

I do actually use those ads. Of course you do. What'd you think of the letter to advertisers today? I thought it was revolutionary. Oh, let's get into it. No, it was well written though. Yeah.

I think he made sense. Almost made sense. It's just like, it makes sense if you stay in his mind, but the minute you leave and you're like, what does it mean to have

a warm and welcoming place? That means moderation. All right. In the relentless pursuit, this is Elon. No, read the minute you leave and you're like, what does it mean to have a warm and welcoming place? That means moderation. All right. In the relentless pursuit, this is Elon. No, read the paragraph before. The reason I acquired. The reason I acquired.

The reason I acquired. I can't. Yeah, I can. The reason I acquired Twitter is because it is important to the future of civilization to have a common digital town square

where a wide range of beliefs can be debated in a healthy manner without resorting to violence. There is currently great danger that social media will splinter into far right-wing and far left-wing echo chambers and generate more hate and divide for our society. Already has. I'll stop here after this.

In the relentless pursuit of clicks, much of traditional media has fueled and catered to those polarized extremes as they believe that is what brings in the money. But in doing so, the opportunity for dialogue is lost. All rational. I mean, yeah. Nothing controversial, really doing so, the opportunity for dialogue is lost. All rational. I mean, yeah. Nothing controversial, really. Well, I reject the premise, actually. Of which?

But I understand why. Which premise do you reject? It's important for the future of civilization to have a common digital town square. No, I don't think so. I think we'd be better off if we didn't know anything about each other. Well, too late. I mean, fair. Yeah, I feel like we can put that on scramble deck, please.

Yeah, what if we didn't have Facebook or Twitter and we didn't know every person on earth's opinion in real time? And problems and every piece of violence across the world. Unvarnished, unedited. Is that – we don't live that way in the real world. I don't walk into a room and tell people exactly what I think of every subject under the sun. Why do we need to do that online? I understand why people would want to do that online. Of what benefit is that to, quote, the future of civilization yeah i just don't well we're not having the

conversation it's out there it's not coming back i i understand that too um there's a there's a story in the bible about this yeah the tower of the tower of babel and and god looked down and said oh this is a huge – Scrap it. This is a problem. Yeah. There's way too much conversation going on. Knock down the tower and teach everybody their own language.

But so how does Elon make Twitter a better place? Right. And without resorting to violence, I'm just curious what his definition of violence is because I don't – it is sort of more of a spectrum than that allows, I think. Twitter is – I've said this before. It's a horrible business in the sense that it has no idea who I think. Twitter is, I've said this before, it's a horrible business in the sense that it has no idea who I am as a user and I've only been on it for 15 years. They still serve me up like women's deodorant ads.

Like they have no idea who I am. Wow. I get a lot of like interviews with CEOs and I block them all. I would argue that the violence being incited on not just Twitter, all social media is of a variety that we've never seen before you could get somebody in nebraska want to murder somebody in pittsburgh right that prior to the internet that's just not a thing other than a serial killer on a on a cross-country road trip you didn't have people who wanted to kill people in other states right that they had never met

before and had nothing to do with. And the scale too, when you think about the way things travel now and get amplified. And the ability to organize. Genocide. The village idiot from every village is like, for me, the future of civilization, the only responsible move here

is to buy it and shut it down. I love that. Radical. I hope he's listening. It's not actually going to happen. So what happens this weekend does he like do some because he doesn't do things quietly or or in a subtle way no yeah that's true so we should all brace ourselves for friday you're gonna be writing this weekend aren't

you what's trump's first tweet back something about something about biden losers economy or yeah i mean i just hope it's like a – Stock market? Stock market tweet? Could be a stock market tweet. The NASDAQ has never been worse. Something like that. Your 401ks are gone. Yeah. I don't know.

What do you think? Do you think Trump's back relatively soon? Yeah. I also think that like he'll probably move like a little slower than – I just like – He can't really get rid of everyone because like someone's got to keep the lights on. Well, he said that. Moderation.

He had to tell the advertisers, we're not going to let this devolve into a free-for-all. Right. I think he's got like a public persona that's extremely brash. I think he's like, he is in real life. He's like brasher and moves faster than most CEOs. But I think he's not going to just burn it down over the weekend. Well, he also has a lot of friends with money in the deal. So it feels like socially there's some accountability.

Facebook blow up. What do we think? I mean, yeah. I can't believe we're all still using that stuff. I love it. I don't care really one way or the other. I bought the stock today. Oh, congrats.

For like a goof. Okay, yeah. For lols. They lost 700 something billion in market cap. Never happened before in the history of. Look at that. It's shocking it took this long. Look, yeah. For lols. They lost 700-something billion in market cap. Never happened before in the history of... Look at that chart. It's shocking it took this long. Look at this. Holy moly. Do you know they lost the equivalent of Berkshire Hathaway?

Oh, wow. I mean, if you look at the chart, we're exactly back to where they were when they ruined the democracy. That would have been a great tweet if I said... Yeah. If I tweeted... Do you want me to tweet it for you and give you credit? Can you put this up? Meta has lost the equivalent of one Berkshire Hathaway. I'll tweet that, yeah.

That's stale. It's a little out of character, so I don't know that my audience is going to be. It's a bad tweet. Oh, that's a good tweet for like Charlie Bilello. Yes. Okay, you should. That's a Charlie Bilello tweet. I'm going to give it to him.

Wait, so what do you think of this? Is this one of the biggest stories of the year? Damn, yeah. Wait, so what do you think of this? Is this one of the biggest stories of the year? Has a company this big ever imploded to this degree, this rapidly that you could think of? No. The answer is no. They weren't this big. Lehman was tiny, though, compared to this. Well, yeah, but I think the delta there, what was Lehman's final bankruptcy figure?

It's not that far off. Well, this is— If you adjust for inflation. I mean, this isn't a bankruptcy yet. Yeah. I don't think we're going there. I'm just trying to slot a Lehman in there and see if it fits. You know what shareholders loved? They loved when he said reality labs operating losses in 2023

will grow significantly. Oh, cool. A lot of growth opportunity. That's great. We love it. Yeah. We'll be focusing our energies. Oh, I was listening to the conference call. Um, and he, and he he said this is a direct quote obviously the metaverse work is a longer term set of efforts

that we're working on but I don't know I think that that is going to end up working too I don't know he said I don't know

I don't know I'm just hoping yeah not not to parse his words but he said I don't know yeah I think it's so millennial to like

have a share have a share price dropping 25, but he said, I don't know. Yeah, I think it's going to work. It's so millennial to, like, have a share price dropping 25% and just be like, I don't know. I don't know. It could be anything. Right. There was an article in New York Mag that was somewhat compelling that, like, the reason that's going to work is because, like, middle managers at businesses that don't have better ideas are just going to be like, everyone has to use meta now. Like, in the same way that Microsoft Teams is, like, successful because we all just going to be like, everyone has to use meta now, like in the same way that Microsoft Teams is like successful because we all just have to. He can't even get his own employees to use it.

Well, they're spending a ton on the Oculus. Have you ever put one on? No, not ever. Matt? You're not a video game guy, are you? I can't picture it. I have one. Oh.

But I never hardly use it. There's not that much to do with it. I could think of one thing. Wait, you have an Oculus. An Oculus Rift from like years ago. So the new one is $1,500. Who's the target market for that? Gamers.

Crypto. People that got out of crypto at the top. Exactly. People that listen to Oddlots at the right moment. You wrote about Credit Suisse first Boston today. Oh, yeah. Were you doing the first Boston thing? Yeah. You wrote about Credit Suisse, First Boston today. Oh, yeah. If they resurrect— Were you doing the First Boston thing?

Yeah. If they resurrect the First Boston name, does that add, I don't know, $20 billion to the market cap of the company? What was your—I didn't get to finish your whole thing. Well, they're divesting it. They're not just reviving the name. They're like—it's a little unclear what they're doing, but I think they're kind of selling it to the bankers in some way or another. Wait. So they're going to spin it off or –

I think they're going to keep a big stake, but they're going to make it somehow a separate company, which might be not a public company but like a partnership kind of thing where they provide a lot of – Like a joint venture. Yeah, with like the bankers. It's going to be an advisory business. I met a guy who bought the name EF Hutton. Nice. Oh, did you? Wait. Is he the guy who's doing the Trump spec advisory business. I met a guy who bought the name EF Hutton. Nice. Oh, did you? Wait, is he the guy who's doing the Trumps back?

No, I think I'm talking to him tomorrow actually. Because the Trumps back was underwritten, I think. Oh, it is. Yeah. It's like one guy. So he bought the name. I forget. They're involved with the Trumps back in some way.

They're the underwriters. But then they have also a financial advisory business, which is what I spoke to him about. And they bought the name EF Hutton. In 10 years, will somebody buy the name Lehman Brothers? Isn't there Lehman Sisters? Oh, Amazon. Down 13%. That's what it was.

Holy shit. Oh, my God. Amazon's down 13%. That's not great. How much did they miss by? I don't know. While I'm looking. Amazon's down 13%. That's not great. How much did they miss by? I don't know. While I'm looking that up, down 17%? This is, by the way, this is the listener's favorite part.

What the fuck is this? Is Michael reacting in real time? What the fuck is this? Down 17%. Where is the stock? 90? 90 bucks. Down 19%.

What just happened? What do you mean? Recession's back on. It's back on, yeah. What just happened? GDP's lagging. While It's back on, yeah. What just happened? GDP's lagging. While I look for this, Josh, we were speaking about this yesterday. Kanye West Essentials playlist disappears from Apple Music.

I told you this was going to be there. He's being deplatformed. I told you that would be next. He was supposedly wandered into Skechers and was kicked out. That's one of the funniest things I've ever heard. Incredible story. Yeah. Was he looking for a partnership?

What happened? No, literally. I think so. Skeezies. Oh, my God. That's so embarrassing. Skeezies. They were going to do skeezies. Wow. incredible story yeah was he looking for a partnership what no literally I think so skisies oh my god that's so embarrassing skisies they were gonna do skisies

wow was he carrying a thing they were gonna have lights in the heels and maybe wheels okay but those that like light up wheelie shoes are awesome

yeah so I'm glad that didn't work out I said to Michael two days ago I go you wanna know where the puck is going next Spotify and Apple Music are gonna be under pressure to get his music and I'm not saying I said to Michael two days ago, I go, you want to know where the puck is going next?

Spotify and Apple Music are going to be under pressure to get his music. And I'm not saying this should happen. I'm just saying that's the logical next. But they might go a step too far by doing that. Amazon is back to where it was in the summer of 2018. People still listen to Michael Jackson on streaming music platforms. There are a lot of people that, yeah. There are people who were born after he died that don't give a shit about Macaulay Culkin's sleepovers or any of that stuff. They just listen to the music.

Yeah. I think there will be a bigger backlash pro Kanye if you try to kick him off Apple Music. People might be mad at what he said this week. Like people still watch Braveheart. They might not like what he said about Jews and blacks, but they still want to watch the movies. This is why you can't kill Twitter. Joe just tweeted audible noises in the newsroom at that one. At Amazon?

Amazon. How much worse is it now? It's down 20%. I might buy it tomorrow. Is the John MacBook real or something that you guys made up to joke about I can't tell is that real I don't know

I read I read Max's review I didn't like it I saw it in real life at the Amtrak station at the Hudson News yeah alright

I saw it at the airport which I think it means it exists yeah at least one copy but I was also like very hungover when I saw it

so I wasn't sure he said quote I have f have fucking killed it. I knocked the cover off the ball in the financial world. He said my life is perfect. He said my life is – this guy is amazing. I've never met him. I was only somewhat aware of him while he was working.

Apparently, though, he was as popular as he says he was because people like used to talk about him like very reverently anytime i ever heard a story about john everyone would tell you how they know him like people like oh yeah yeah he's woodstock yeah yeah uh could you imagine writing those words and then sending them to the publisher i have no i have knocked the cover off the wall but i respect that there are different kinds of people in the world and like perhaps to become the CEO

of a big bank you gotta yeah be detached from reality I can't tell if that makes me like him want to read the book or not want to read the book

I assume the whole thing is a hagiography anyway yeah I've never liked a memoir I think but I wouldn't read the book but it makes me like him

that he was that he like hit publish on that. Yeah. You picture him like high fiving somebody after saying that. Yeah. It's cool. Like, I like that.

Like, I hope someday I could write a book and say that I knocked the cover off of anything. Yeah. I think you can. Like, if you read a memoir and you're like, my life is perfect. Like, like, what more could you ask for? Well, no. So let me let me qualify. My life is perfect thing because I read I think I read Max's review.

But somebody said something like he's admitted to suffering from cognitive difficulties now, but my life is perfect like in spite of that. That's right. So stop trying to make him into a monster, Matt. No, no. I'm genuinely saying I like it. Like I like the sort of wholehearted embrace of... All right, so in conclusion... You might as well, yeah.

In conclusion, Facebook down 20. Uh-huh. You okay? Microsoft down seven. Google down seven or eight. Amazon down 20. We got Apple in 20 minutes. It's not on their shelf. So let's debrief on the Bond King

yeah so we had thanks Matt sorry no no we had you it's in the doc we were going here

we had you on on our YouTube channel yes you were awesome thank you I think y'all moved a lot of products so thank you we definitely sold like a dozen books

yeah so just kidding this is a very big plan I don't know if you guys no it was huge. I'm serious. Yeah.

I have knocked the cover off the wall. You knocked the cover off the book cover. In the financial YouTube game. Yeah. Whatever. What's been, so like, what's been the end result?

When is the Netflix movie coming out? I know, right? Who's going to play Bill Gross? She has a whole list. I have a whole list. The list is amazing. Aren't people calling you?

I mean, yeah, it's both moving like so slow. It's a whole list. The list is amazing. Are people calling you? I mean, yeah, it's both moving like so slow. It's very confusing to me, the Hollywood thing. Like, I feel like I get these emails

that are like, we're working on it, but here's a list of every male actor over a certain age that you've ever heard of and I can't tell what that means.

I don't know what this list means, but I'm assuming they're all dying to play Bill. It means one of them will say yes, the rest will say no,

and that's who will get the part. That sounds right. Thank you for that. Do you have an agent shopping the book? Yes. Okay, somebody that's who will get the part. That sounds right. Thank you for that. Do you have an agent shopping the book? Yes. Okay.

Somebody that's sold books before? Yes. And productions have happened as a result? Yes. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Are you excited? I'm really excited.

Are you going to get points on it or something? I mean, yeah. I'm going to try to write on it, man. Okay. Gotta. So if they do the movie, is there going to be like a gunlock? Oh, yeah. And are they going to play up that rivalry?

Oh, they gotta. People love that rivalry. Because Bill's biggest rival was like Muhammad and then himself. Yes. That's not very cinematic. How's this for a Bill Gross?

What about Will Patton? This dude. What made you think of that? Oh, I can see that. That's a good call, but what made you think of that? Right? I just popped away.

Wait, what is he in? I mean Armageddon for one. Armageddon. Halloween. Did I? Remember the Titans? He's in a lot of things. Okay, but have you heard?

I don't hate that. Have you tried in your mind? Have you seen Love Actually? Yes. A film called Bill Nighy? Oh. He's of a certain age. Am I right or am I right?

Yeah. He is of a certain age. I feel like he's got the energy. Who plays young Bill Gross when he's scamming casinos at the poker table? Not scamming, but like. poker table not scamming but like good question Zac Efron like a shirtless Zac Efron

Harry Styles I hear he's really good at acting did you see the movie with Harry Styles no I'm too nervous to see it it was really bad I can't tell if it's feminist or anti-feminist

it's not good do you see movies I don't see movies but wait I'm aware that there's a weird Al biopic that's just like yes

entirely made up that's Harry Potter it's just like jokes you should if you a Weird Al biopic that's just like entirely made up. That's Harry Potter. It's just like jokes. You should, if you're writing the Bill Gates, you should just like make up an alternate life for him. Oh, I like that so much. That's a great idea. Like apparently in this, like Harry Potter is just really buff and so he's just playing Weird Al as like a really buff guy. Yeah.

Who plays Muhammad? My top pick is Tony Shalhoub. I don't know who that is. That's just so, that's just so obvious, right? Yeah, it's too obvious. What about, did you all watch Severance? No, I didn't mean it in a bad way. No, I love it.

I'm already on board. Who's with the mustache? John? Tatara. Wait, he was in Severance? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I was wondering if that would work.

But then are you allowed to, though? That's what I don't think. Will they let an Italian play somebody off? I was going to Wikipedia that before I rolled it out publicly. Somebody of Middle Eastern descent, they might not allow it. Well, see, Tony Shalhoub's like Lebanese or Armenian. I've forgotten. Because like 10 years ago, you know who would be great as Muhammad and could probably almost

completely embody him? I was going to say. Jared Wetter. Yes. Yes. He can do anything. Riz Ahmed could play Muhammad

no what's his name from Gangs of New York and like oh my god Daniel Day-Lewis he retired I know

but he's like tall thin handsome yeah he could grow a mustache yeah like he could do it oh my god

let's get Daniel Day-Lewis but you're not I don't think he could do that anymore I think listen if he method acted Muhammad I think it would be pleasant like that's not a bad life

to method act, you know? You're just like living in Southern California. You're like eating food. Like they let Ben Kingsley a million years ago play Gandhi. That could never happen today. That could never. We saw Muhammad at an ice cream shop. He's like the nicest man in the world.

In Newport Beach? Yeah. He's the anti-Bill Gross. Yeah. Why don't you do a book on him next? No. The Bond Prince. You should read the book

because he was less nice to me I would say. No yeah. Can you understand why? Yes. Okay. Like would you have been

if you were him would you want to have anything to do with that book? I would have been nice to me because I'm a nice person and I like to play fair. If only the world worked that way.

Indeed. You're very sweet Mary. Thank you so much. What else do we want to do? You have GDP in the dock. We could skip it. It went up. I'm happy. We usually do this thing to close

called favorites. And basically what we're asking you is, I know you don't see movies. What are you watching or reading or listening to that you think the audience would be into? Bluey? I'm exclusively going on podcasts to talk about crypto,

so you should read crypto. You read novels. I do read novels. So do I. Nobody else does, just you and I. Really? Who's your favorite novelist? My favorite novelist?

Wait, can you actually – sorry, we read the New York Times column about you. Can you tell the story of the book that changed your life and made you want to become a writer? Wait, I feel like that's overblowing it, but I feel like the book that is mentioned in the times article is, uh, is, uh, is, is, um, the mezzanine by Nicholson Baker. That's right. Just like a book that they made it like it was your Bible. I probably, but no, I read it like in high school and I was like, I didn't know that you're allowed to do this. It's a, it's a book about a guy who works in an office and he breaks his shoelace.

And so he has to go out to get another shoelace during his lunch break. And then he takes the escalator back up to the mezzanine where his office is. And that's the plot of the book. And it's so good. It's got all these footnotes and it's crazy. And it's like very interior. And I was like, I didn't know you were allowed to do that. He's like a guy's like his inner monologue while he's going to replace his shoelace.

He's thinking about like, you know, like, like toothbrushing. So like 99% of people who would read that book would be pissed off. And you were like, I want to, I want to do this. People like that book. But like one like joke that is right in the book is like, it gets like increasingly long and broke footnotes. And I was like, I don't know. I read, I read two chapters of a DeLillo book. Okay. And I said, this is a practical joke. Like some, somebody's, somebody's messing with me. This can't

seriously be a book, but apparently there are people that want to read, uh, uh, that way. All right. So that was the book that you said, I want to write. Well, I don't know. I mean, like that's probably an exaggeration, but sure. Yeah. Let's say there's like six paragraphs on this. It's my fault. I told her that like I do. Yes. Yes. I did like that book a an exaggeration but sure yeah let's say yeah let's say there's like six paragraphs on this no look i mean it's my fault i i told her that like i do yes yes i did like that book a lot it did it did you know at the at the time of that profile and frankly like for much of my career i've written a lot of footnotes and people like where did you get the idea to do footnotes and honestly you were like a lawyer asshole like i was a lawyer but like uh but no also like like the mezzanine was where i learned that you could like make footnotes as a joke, right?

But that's your writing style is so much exposition but not inside of the column in the footnotes. But there are people that love the footnotes as much as they love. Try to do the jokes in the footnotes too. I feel like this is David Foster Wallace erasure here. Well, you say that, but I am the eraser because, in fact, I do like David Foster Wallace a lot, but I don't. I didn't like— He didn't become part of your story. I read it after—

David Foster Wallace. Yeah. Infinite Jest? Yeah. I never read that. That sounds good. It's really good. It sounds like it would piss me off, though.

It would piss you off. Right. It's very long. It's circular and self-referential. Yeah, yeah. It's really good. I don't do that piss me off, though. It would piss you off. It's very long. It's like circular and self-referential. Yes, I don't do that to myself anymore. I'm not that literary. You should carry it around, though, and read it alone at bars. No, that doesn't work anywhere.

No, I know. You can get in a fight. It'd be fun. Your writing reminds me of Chuck Klosterman, which is one of my favorite authors. I like that. I have not read a lot of Chuck, but I like his thing. So David Foster Wallace is your favorite novelist? No. You're going to get canceled. I don't have a lot of chocolate, but I like it. I'm a fan. I like his thing. So David Foster Wallace is your favorite novelist? No.

You're going to get canceled. I don't have a favorite novelist. Okay. Yours is Gary Steingart. I had lunch with him yesterday. He says hello. I love him. That's mine too.

Yeah. He lives by you, right? No, he lives further up. Further up. Have you guys heard of Dan Brown? His master class. My friends say his master class is the best. I don't doubt it.

Actually, my favorite author is John Mack. Wait, hang on. Will you let's say you love Dan Brown too? Who doesn't? I read Da Vinci Code in like two hours. So much fun. It's a good book. This is incredible.

There's nothing wrong with it. He's good at his craft. He's a genius. Right. He's a genius. His books are movies. They're fun. Business man.

Yes. Not every book you read has to completely alter the way you think about the world. Sometimes you just want to read a story. That one is a good one for like. Actually kind of altering the way. Yeah. This is the most animated he's been. I love that book.

And actually did change my worldview on religion. Yeah, it kind of like, it's like a good, like, what he did was he picked a good, like, bit of lore, a bit of, like, conspiracy theory and, like, blew it into a, like, a sort of thrown together novel. What's your favorite finance book? My favorite finance book. There's a right answer. It's got to be Liar's Poker. There's a lot behind me. It's probably Liar's Poker.

It's got to be Liar's Poker. That's like your. What the f**k? I'm right here. So, The Bond King, Li that's like your. What the. It's like I'm the Bond King. I'm the Bond King. I'm right here. So the Bond King, Liar's Poker. Matt's fourth, Matt's fourth from a mic. The Bond King, Liar's Poker. How one man, all right.

I really love Barbarians at the Gate. I, I, the. Oh, that was a good one. The book that people have not, like that is not at the level of like the Bond King or Liar's Poker in terms of fame that I love and I recommend to people is called Diary of a Very Bad Year. It's – I mean Roth, Steve Roth? No.

It's – Diary of a Very Bad Year. Diary of a Very Bad Year. It's put up by N Plus One, the literary magazine. I think Keith Gesson is like the sort of name on it. And he interviews a person whose name in the book is Anonymous Hedge Fund Manager. And Anonymous Hedge Fund Manager basically like sits down for a long conversation with him every like three or four months during the financial crisis. Oh, wow. describing it's like it's like his take on the financial crisis but it's also just describing like and like embodying like the life of a hedge fund manager and how a hedge fund manager is

thinking about the world in a way that is like really interesting we know who it is in real life i know i think you know who the subject is i think it became public don't say it now just in case but i think it came david einhorn yeah that's right my understanding is that i don't know i don't think it's public by the way i was thinking of The Great Depression and Diary when you said Diary. That's the book that I was thinking of. Oh, okay. Yeah, that was good. Diary of a Very Bad Year.

I never heard of this. I never heard of that either. Right, no one's heard of it. What's your favorite Wall Street movie? Like, what movie do you think is the best? I just watched Margin Call. I just watched Margin Call. It is the best.

It is the best. It's just clearly the best. It is the best. It's not a movie, but industry. It's the best. Are you watching industry? Are you showing Michael's big. It is the best. It's not a movie, but industry. It's the best. Are you watching industry? Showing Michael's big industry bag. Oh my God.

Am I right? What are you doing? There's too many- Get involved. There's too much nudity in sex. I knew you were going to say that, and I was going to make fun of you for it, but I feel like you're right. That's not the reason I'm not watching it.

I started it, and I just don't have time. What? I know. You make time. Okay, so it gets better. I feel like it starts strong, but it gets better. So I would recommend when you find time to stick with it. No, I will.

That's one of the things that I will one day sit down and just watch them all at once. Season two is terrific. It's also a little triggering. I was so happy to be back in the structure. I feel like Bloomberg structures itself like a bank. So I felt like I was in the newsroom slash trade floor again. And I was like, oh my God. But it also, it's very cozy and triggering.

There's a lot of realism. Yeah. And not realism as well. Well, no, of course, because otherwise it'd be unwatchable. She should have gotten fired at least 50 times. Working at a bank is mostly tedious, punctuated by once a year, oh my God, they're going to fire us all. Right, right, right. And she has that every day.

Yeah. Yeah. So there is a new book out. One of my favorite books is called Devil Take the Hindmost by Edward Chancellor. And he just wrote a book called The Price of Time, which is a history of interest rates. So a pretty timely book. Did you start it? I read the prologue.

Can I steal it and forget to return it when you're done? No. Michael doesn't lend me books anymore. Because you lost them? Well, once I ate over a book. No, you returned me a book. Oh, fair enough. I lost your Nell's ink

and I'm still sorry about it. If you lend someone a book and you get it back and there's like food in it. At least you get it back. Or stains. No, just throw it out. I don't even actually want to acknowledge

that you ever touched my book. Yeah, fair. Here's my favorite. This is so weak. Now that I just said I don't have time to watch Industry. I got sucked into Handmaid's Tale. I know I'm five years late to watch Industry. I got sucked into Handmaid's Tale.

I know I'm five years late to this. It is awesome. It is – what? You don't like it? No. I had to tap out. I was like, why am I hurting myself? When did you tap out?

Season two. Josh needs to feel something. Horrific. Yeah. You're torturing yourself. I get that. Okay. It is torture. Yeah.

You ever see this shit? No. Do not. You would not. You would not. No. Why am I so into it? Does that say something bad about me?

I mean, I'm a little worried about you, but you did leave Twitter, so I feel like you're okay. It's one of the shows, though, that if you're negative about the future, it confirms everything that you think is happening now. No. I mean, she drew from, I don't know. I can't speak to the current seasons and the straying from the book, but she drew from real things that all happened. Yeah. It looks like they pulled forward the headlines of today. Yikes.

Back into 2018 or whenever it started. I hate that. So anyway, I got sucked in. Great. So this is something. Zero Hedge just tweeted. Zero Hedge. Zero Hedge, our old friend.

X AWS. Amazon had a negative profit margin and they did over $100 billion in sales. That is impressive. So they made it up on volume. How? How? What do they – how? The old-fashioned – what do you mean how?

Somebody did it. Do you ever buy things on Amazon? They're 20% less than you would buy them anywhere else. They're not even. Yeah, not even. It's true. Also, like, I buy things for $4, and then I get a big box in 20 minutes. A big box, right.

What are you doing? This can't be a good business. So I guess investors don't like all that bleeding money in this economy. Is Apple out yet? No, I think it comes out at 4.30. All right. Well, we'll wrap. Oh, do you have a favorite for us?

What do you got? Industry. Industry is yours. My favorite book about finance is a novel. Hello. Go. Trust by Hernan Diaz. Okay.

What's that? I was calling it a triptych. Trust by Hernan Diaz. Okay, what's that? I was calling it a triptych, but that's not quite right. I think it's four different perspectives on a bond trader in the early 1900s and the way he traded through the Depression and then kind of different perspectives on his life and his legacy. I'm really glad it's not a triptych because

I don't know what that word means and I would have had to ask you. No, it's four. You're good. Do you guys have had to ask you. But now it's four. You're good. No, I don't want to know. So it is. Did you guys have fun today? Yes. Like maybe one of the best times you've ever had on a podcast?

Matt sounds like Luke Worm on this segment. Much better than my own podcast. No, this is him being enthusiastic. This is really good. Oh, this is good. Oh, that's great. That's great. The crowd loves us. Standing ovation.

We are huge fans of both of yours, and together, I feel like you guys, in some way, it's like better. We have this circle for a long time. So we've been excited for this for a long time. I want to tell everybody where they could subscribe and follow. We want to make sure people read your article. What is the name of it again? I think if you go to Bloomberg.com slash The Crypto Story, you'll find it.

No, you could just go to Bloomberg.com. It's the only thing they're talking about this week. They changed their Twitter background to your article. It's just my face. Did you see that? No, not my face. It's Mario Draghi's face. They should let you guest tweet from the at business account for a full day.

Would that be fun? No. No, you don't. Okay. Matt Levine, you're on Twitter. You are at Matthew Levine? I'm at Matt underscore Levine. Underscore. That's the best you're on Twitter. You are at Matthew Levine? I'm at Matt underscore Levine.

Underscore. That's the best you could do? Ouch. Underscore? It's time to leave. Who has real Matt Levine? I don't know. Talk to Elon.

All right. You are married in America? Oh, that's my Instagram. On Instagram. But what is your Twitter? Twitter is MDC. Whoa. Thank you. Not bad.

Monogram. Appreciate you. At MDC on Twitter. And, not bad. Monogram. Appreciate you. At MDC on Twitter and tell us when we could listen to your show. How often are you, how often are you

on the air? Oh, on NPR's Planet Money. I don't know, like once a month usually. Okay. Maybe twice. Any good guests coming up?

Anything going on? Yeah, I'm working on a show where we're making the Fed's acquisition of its various tools into a video game. Okay. I like it. Is it play to earn Fed's acquisition of its various tools into a video game. Okay.

I like it. Is it play to earn? Yes, of course. It's a Ponzi. I haven't been on in a while. Come on down. So did you forget that I'm around or do I have to tweet? Yes.

We only get guests from Twitter. I want to come on your show to promote my show. Would that work? I think so, but we have to issue – we have to mint something. See, I'm trying to come on her show to promote my thing. Oh, you haven't had him on with his crypto mission? No, he he comes on all the time it's just i haven't had him on the show got it yeah all right well listen you guys are you guys are awesome we loved having you here thank you so much for coming much appreciated do we have any announcements to make

uh i have a review if you want to hear it let's do it so this is the part where we selectively cherry pick one thing nice that somebody has said about us. We haven't done this in a while. Let's do a review. So this one's from TPFIV and it's a five star rating. My mom. It's a five star review and they

say top two financial podcasts top one intro. Can't decide between Animal Spirits and The Compound and Friends but hands down my favorite podcasts are coming from the Rihals team I look forward to

the three claps on my Friday morning commute the intro song has no right to go that hard let's go someone arrested that intro song does slap

and we play it as an outro let's go let's go alright guys thanks so much for listening we will see you next week alright so you guys warmed up? You ready to do it?

Yeah. All right, I just wanted to, like, just give you a sense of what the show is like. Yeah, that sounds great. All right, you want to hit record? All right, let's do it. You got to take a break first or just go right into it. All right.