The Confessionals - 101: In Too Deep

Episode Date: December 4, 2018

On today's show we are happy to have Joe with us! Joe was the producer for the popular paranormal talk radio host and demonologist, Lou Gentile. He shares very eerie experiences he had while working with Lou on the show and how as time went on, Lou seemed to start becoming the demons he was fighting against. He walks us through these experiences including one when he had the opportunity to go searching for bigfoot with Lou and Robert Morgan! Patreon: www.patreon.com/TheConfessionalsWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail]: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcastTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelShow Intro INSTRUMENTAL: www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyub39AXxUwShow Intro FREE DOWNLOAD: https://bit.ly/2HxNcw3Outro Music : ONLAP - ""Whispers In My Head""ITUNES : https://itunes.apple.com/fr/artist/onlap/id339918784 (also on AMAZON)SPOTIFY : https://open.spotify.com/album/6cdhj56E1MF3azjkmu7Gv0 (also on DEEZER)YOUTUBE : https://www.youtube.com/user/OnlapMusikFACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/ONLAP.Official

Hey, everybody. We're going live this Sunday, December 9th, 2018 at 6.30 p.m. Eastern Standard Time to celebrate episode 100 that we hit last Tuesday. This show is going to be called Ask Tony Anything. And I do mean anything. You can ask me about paranormal Bigfoot stuff. You can ask me about relationship advice, work, job-related questions. I don't care what the question is. But if you have a question, I got an answer. Shoot me the questions at the Confessionals podcast at gmail.com. In the subject line, write, ask Tony anything. And in the body, ask your question. And we'll be a question. And we'll be a question. And we'll be a question. get to it on the air. Also go to YouTube.com, look up the Confessionals, and subscribe to the Confessionals YouTube channel so you don't miss this opportunity. Hit the little bell so it alerts you when we go live. This was all circulating around the base

that a giant had to kill, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, boning fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. When he came over to me,

He slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing at this giant. With a giant moves, he's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast. And spears Dan holds him up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face. They basically decapitated.

Got closer, got closer, got closer, got spars him when he got about... I feel something pulling at my leg. And I look over and there are two. small gray entities pulling it. And they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed. I reached my hand into this bush, and I touch air. Couldn't breathe and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. Yep.

Welcome to the show, everybody. You're listening to The Confessionals. I am your host, Tony Merkel. Thank you for being here. If you've had an encounter or story you'd like to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is The Confessionals Podcast at gmail.com. that's The Confessionals Podcast at gmail.com or go to the website theconfessionalspodcast.com, hit the connection section, and you can reach me that way as well. Either way it works for me,

just get a hold of me. Now this week we're going to do something a little different here. Instead of me giving the shout out for the Art Bell iTunes five-star ratings and reviews, I actually was in correspondence with an artificial intelligence through email named Sharon. In the past few weeks, Sharon's been begging me to come on the show. And after spending time going back and forth through email, I actually don't think it's out of an idea. So, Sharon, how are you? I'm fine, Tony. Thank you and I trust you are well also. Good, Sharon. I'm glad you're doing well. I'm doing well. And Sharon, are you ready to do

this shoutouts? Of course. I am. I've been programmed ready. Great. I'm absolutely glad that you're ready to do this. So Sharon, I already told the audience who you are. So go ahead and take it away. Give us the Art Bell 5 star rating and reviews on iTunes shoutouts for this week. Paul K-milk.moke. Jay Carban. Dayano 1221 Ryan Johnson from Cleveland Carrie Kentucky

Cadad 07 We Downacre 1972 M. McInness and CC159 from Canada All right Sharon Well thank you very much for coming on the show and giving us the Art Bell iTunes 5 star rating and review shoutouts. I really do appreciate it and you did a fine job.

Thank you very much. Now moving on to the Patreon shoutouts. This is for anybody who goes to patreon.com slash the confessions and signs up to become a patron to help support the show on a monthly basis. And this week's shout out is. Sharon, no, I got this. Amanda W. And I have this.

Actually, Sharon, where'd you get those names? I never gave you those. Sharon. Thank you very much for going to get me. Sharon. I never gave you those things. That's it. And signing up to be a page.

Sorry about that, guys. I don't even know how she got those names. I didn't give them to her. And that was something that I was worried about, this artificial intelligence actually intruding into my life where I didn't want it to be. So I don't think we're going to have Sharon back on the show anymore because that was a little freaky. But we do have a great show plan for you guys today. We have Joe coming on.

And Joe used to be a producer for a guy named Lou Gentilly who used to host a paranormal talk radio show. And Joe comes on to describe his relationship with Lou and how things progressed where Lou really started becoming haunted by the things he was actually fighting against as a demonologist. And he talks about all these different stories that really tripped him out. but also he talks about going out into the field looking for Bigfoot with none other than Robert Morgan. And so he talks about some of the things that he saw out in the woods one night when he went out with Robert Morgan that really left him speechless. So let's get to it right now. Okay, tonight I have a great guest coming on.

I have Joe. Joe, how you doing, man? I am doing great, Tony. How are you? I'm doing good. I'm doing good. So you worked with a radio show called the Lou Gentile radio show, right? Correct.

Okay, so you've had some experiences with that show. And didn't you say that listening to my show remind you some of the experiences because I guess the one show I had, I had an EVP come through, and that kind of remind you of something similar to what you experienced, right? It did. It did. Absolutely did. Yes. All right. Well, I mean, let's just start with that story first. Then I'll let you kind of just take it away from there with what you want to talk about your experiences-wise.

So what happened with that? okay well one of the big things that Lou did and those people don't know who Lou is he was like one of the first guys that had like an internet um paranormal you know uh radio show this was back in the you know the early 2000 when you know there wasn't podcast back then

um there weren't like a lot of things like that for this kind of a show to be around on so internet radio was pretty big back in those days and how I kind of came across his show is I used to listen to a lot of the coast to coast stuff that was on the internet. It was free. All their shows used to be free

on there for a long time. And then one day I go to log on to the coast to coast and all of a sudden they're not freeing one. Like, come on. There's no more free. I can't get this for free anymore. So I was kind of like really hurt for some good, you know,

paranormal talk radio. So I was Googling around a little bit and came across his show. And initially his show was more or less just him talking by his experiences. And the thing that was interesting with Lewis, not only was he a really, really good radio host, but his claim to fame was sort of, not only was he that, he was also a investigator of haunting, demonic activity, things like that. And his claim was he was a religious demonologist, and he was trained in that field by Ed Lorain Warren from, you know, Amyville Horror, you know, the conjuring couple, that same couple.

Apparently were his mentors that got him into all this stuff. One of the key things on his show, you know, in those days is that were his EDP recordings. He seemed to have a knack for going to these places and picking this stuff up. So, you know, there was tons of his shows on there because I found him late in the game. He'd probably be on the internet for probably a year or so before I found it. And so there was lots of archive shows up there. So like I said, I had a desk job back then as an engineer. And I just listened to these things, you know, kind of all day at work.

Well, one day he was talking about this case he was working on. You know, Tony, I almost don't want to say the name. That's fine. It kind of freaks me up. But there was a case he was working on. And Lou was down from the Philadelphia area. That's where he was from. And it was the case he was working on with a woman who had some serious activity that he believed was brought on by her use of Ouija boards and spirit writing and things like that.

And he had a lot of, we'll call it success there in capturing things on this recorder that he had. So for about two weeks, he'd been talking about playing a certain EVP. that he had caught, that he felt was actually not really ghostly activity, but was actually demonic activity. And he played it. Man, I can still hear it. I've tried to find this since. I haven't heard it a very, very long time.

I can't find any of this stuff on the Internet anymore. He played this EVP. And what you heard was there was either a priest or a pastor or somebody who was doing a blessing home. and he was recording this this as it was going on and all of a sudden

you hear this like this gosh I can't even describe it to you but it was like almost like a scream but not a scream kind of like a almost like a bark type thing but what it was is it was a it was two voices

because I know it was two because one was kind of talking so one started saying something and then the other like echoed it but echoed it, but it overlapped in the first voice. And what it was screaming, as his pastor was, was blessing the home was, it was screaming liar. And you had to hear it, man. It was like one of the creepiest things I'd ever heard,

and it gave me a lot of, like, restless nights, we'll just put it that way. But, like, all of us who are fascinated by these things, it doesn't, it's just like, it's almost sick, isn't it? Like, because you get scared, but you want, you want more? Yeah. I don't get that.

Like, I'm scared to death. I'm a grown man going at that with my wife's on. But let me hear that again. You know, it makes it makes that no sense at all. You know, but that's kind of how that was. And it was, and he had, you know, things like that and dozens of other ones. But that was the one that really, it really, really struck me, you know. So I continued to listen to, you know, other, other, his archives.

And then eventually, you know, I got caught on those. And he did his show lives every night of the week at from 11 p.m. to 1 a.m. Wow. You know, broadcasting live over the end. Yeah, it was a lot. This guy had a lot to say. He really had a talent for, what they call it, the gift of gab. He could just talk and talk and talk and you just never kind of got bored to hear him.

Plus, he had a lot of stories to tell. He had a co-host on there that was a member of his investigative team. But they shared a lot of stories on there. And it was kind of cool also is there was a chat room that they had that, well, the show was going on live. There was a chat room in the background. You could be on. And it was like, you know, others who were listening to the show, kind of just talking back and forward. So, you know, again, I guess I was kind of a dork.

I kind of get into all that stuff. Here I am. Again, grown man with a job and responsibly. And I sit there at my desk, 11 o'clock at night, so I 1 o'clock at the morning, listening to the show, I probably should be in bed. you know, you know, get ready for work the next day. But, you know, it was interesting, and it was fascinating. And, again, back then he had no guest.

It was just him and, him and, um, him and this, uh, this co-host of his, an occasion to be another person on, you bring a pastor on that he's working with on a particular case or things like that. But it's really just, this kind of him. Um, so I guess what was happening is, I guess the show was gaining popularity. Um, I know he was able, I found out later on, he was able to actually monitor through internet traffic, how many people were listening to the stream on time.

So I guess he was noticing in the background that the show was growing in base, and his goal was always, he wanted to be, you know, be like the next car felt. He wanted to be, you know, that guy, have a, you know, not an internet show, but an actual show on either AMERF radio that was syndicated, you know,

coast to coast, and that was kind of his goal. So I guess he saw the need that to happen to try to, you know, get guests on the show. Now, at the time, he was also working, Lou was working a full-time job. He was actually a pretty good website creator. So he announced on one of his shows that if anybody was interested in helping him out with the show

and producing the show to contact him, you know, send a resume or whatever, and, you know, if he saw what he liked, he would, you know, be in contact. I have no background in media communications at all. I was at school for engineering, but it sounded cool. I thought, well, I'd like to help out. It wasn't a paying job. You know, it was just a total volunteer thing. So I was like, yeah, what the hell?

I'll just, I'll send down a resume and a short email and just see, and just see if there's any interest. So I guess about a week or so later, he responded to me saying that he wanted to get together and meet me in person. Now, oh, I should touch that. Like I said, his show was in Philadelphia. you had to read broadcasts from. I, at the time, was living about two and a half hours north of there in Northeast PA.

So it wasn't a long drive down to Turnpike, you know, to get there. So I'm like, yeah, I'll come down and meet you. And I did that. And I was kind of excited, you know, it was kind of like, it wasn't like he was like some big celebrity guy, but it was kind of cool because I had seen him on some different TV shows at the time that were featuring, you know, Ghost Hunter's on TV back then. So drove down there and met him at actually it was a Saturday. He was working that day.

I met him where he worked. And Lou was a big guy. Lou is probably, gosh, about six to him. He had to be over 300 pounds. You know, a big man. We were the same exact age. And I remember meeting him and he just had this larger than life personality. And this big smile that could just like just really, he had to really boyish space for a big guy.

It was kind of odd. He looks kind of like a little kid, but that was his look. And so we, you know, did a lunch or whatever and talked, and he said, well, you want to do this thing with him. I'm like, absolutely. And that's when he explained his goal was that, you know, while this wasn't a paying gig, he was hoping that he could get some traction here by getting guests and stuff like that. And, you know, possibly one day, maybe being, I don't know, about as big as like an R.Feller or, you know, a coast-to-coast show, but a full-time opportunity. get him out of doing what he was doing and possibly whoever was working with at the time, you know, moving up along with him. Like, yeah, let's do it.

Now I'm working full-time at that same time as well. You know, I have a full-time job and a family and everything. So, you know, our first, I guess we'll say our goals were to get some guests. I'm like, how do we do that? How do I get? Who are our guests? Who should I get? Like, I don't even know what I'm doing.

I kind of, you know, talk my way into this thing. now I'm kind of scared of like I can actually pull it off, you know. So I just, you know, it was funny, Tony. All I did is, you know, I still was listening to some of the Art Bell stuff. I would just listen to who they had on, try to find their website or contact info, and reach out to them. And I was, I was shocked at the responses I would get, you know. A lot of the guests, guests on there were usually trying to, I don't say push something, But they were usually trying to market something.

They had a book out or a movie was coming out or something like that. So they were more than happy to get any kind of free, you know, time that they could to talk about their thing. They didn't know how small the show was. I mean, we didn't push it out to doing some huge things. They said, hey, it's a small internet radio show. And they did. And it went on like that for a long time. We got some really cool guests to come on the show.

And as the producer, what was kind of cool is, these guests all were to send me their stuff. So I had a library of like, I was in my house, lots were showing up with tapes and CDs and books. And I'm like, holy cow, this is great.

And it kind of rolled that way for quite a little while. And, you know, we do the show live again, like, you know, 11 o'clock at night. And I was home,

you know, two hours north of him. But, you know, back then, there was an AOL. The Messenger thing was popular back then. So before the show, we log on to there, be talking during the show.

He'd always ask me to kind of peruse the material for the given guest was coming on, and maybe get him a couple of questions and then let him run. And he used to frustrate me so bad because I would spend time like, you know, listening to a CD from one of the guests or, you know, going through a book and I'd get like maybe 10 questions for him. And he's usually like one. And I'm like, you know, I got all this time put into this thing. You know, you got one question, but that's how he was.

He just, he had that gift to he could talk to anybody. Once the person came on, the conversation started, the show just, just rolled. And that's how it was. So, well, I'm there for a little while, and when the things started getting kind of odd were, let's be, probably three or four months in into doing this with him, he had he invited me down to his house one time to actually um do the show to watch the show you know being done live how he how he actually does everything from where he does it from his house to his basement i was like yeah that would be great i'd love to see how this actually all works you know you know behind the scenes i don't know all the technical details and things like that that you're doing

so i was thrilled to get to get to answer around there and see it you know happen live uh now In the same time, he was a busy guy. He somehow he was working a full-time job, doing this, doing this internet radio thing. He had a family and still doing his investigations, you know, with his team that he had that was doing research on, you know, these other activities were going on. And he really, I asked me a few times if I could go on some of these investigations. And at the time, I got to tell you, while I was very fast, fascinated by all things paranormal, I was still very skeptical of certain things. Not that I didn't believe, but, you know, I had a healthy skepticism, was it say.

You know, I'm not going to be fooled by things. And, you know, there's so much stuff out there. You don't know what to beliefs. So I just want to actually go to one of these places live one time and just just check it out. And he was very, very adamant that, no, he's not only involved in the group that I was strictly going to be on the radio show. I don't hear, so I would tell me, I don't want you involved in that. Just keep doing what you're doing.

Just keep it separate. Okay, that's fine. A little bit frustrating, so I really wanted to go on some of these cases, especially the ones he's working on down, you know, weren't too far from my house, and hearing the results he was getting, just to actually, well, again, you want the experience, but do you really, you know, when you have it,

maybe you, you know, don't actually want it after all. So I went down to his place that we're doing this show, in Philadelphia and he was like one of those you know how the homes are down there towing they're kind of like kind of like low homes almost in Philly like a lot of those kind of everything's real on top of each other exactly exactly

so I found his house you know again no GPS back then so I had some crappy instructions I think I wrote down from somewhere finally found the place and I get there and this is where it's kind of well this is where things started really getting kind of kind of odd so I go in and I am not in any way, shape, or form like sensitive or have any kind of a psychic thing or a medium thing or nothing like that at all, at least as far as I know I don't. I walk into his house and I just feel, oh, man, I described it before as I felt like someone threw a blanket like something came over me that was kind of like weighing me down. It wasn't like pushing me to the ground, but just like, just something, just something.

And something just didn't feel right. And I've had that feeling since a couple of times over the years. But something didn't feel right. So, you know, we go in, I mean, his family, his wife was there at the time we had, you know, two girls. Kind of a small house, you know, narrow, not big, you know, typical of what the homes down there kind of kind of look like. And everything was fine, you know, very, very, very pleasant. pleasant. Still, I'm still not feeling super comfortable. But it was pretty cool. You know, it was probably around maybe 8, or 9 o'clock at night. So we're all kind of hungry, and he decided to order a pizza. So we get

that, and a pizza comes. Now, we're sitting there eating this thing. Now, we're eating it's in his living room. And his living room was very, very narrow. There's like a couch against one wall, not a very wide room. There's a TV, like kind of a cross from us. Um, two, by left with what the kitchen was. There was a small table in there. You can see it was wide open, a wide open, you could see right through the house, one and the other.

And we're sitting there, and one of the daughters was, I think, on the floor next to me, one of them on the couch next to me, and we're sitting there eating, have a conversation. And then we just hear this, this boom, like,

this noise that was so loud, it, that the house, it shook. I mean, the house shook. it sounded like to me is if you have like a thousand pound dresser or something and just pushed it over

the sound that it would make when it hit the ground that's how loud it was I probably thought a hundred different things in a matter of two seconds but what what got me really nervous was

the first person I looked at was his wife and the look on her face, I'll never forget it, she was absolutely horrified. I mean, horrified. And Lou looks at me and I said, what, what was that? And I'm thinking, okay, well, you live in kind of like a Rojah, Roham thing here. It could have been, been the neighbor on your side of you, you know, knock something over. I mean, this was obnoxiously loud for just something to fall over, but I'm thinking anything rational,

like, okay, that could have been anything. He goes, come on with me. Okay. So we go stairs and we're walking around a little bit and nothing out of the ordinary. There's nothing really there to see nothing going on there. So we go back downstairs and his wife is like packing up, packing stuff up. She's like, I could see her. She's in like a like a world of putting things in her purse and getting things together. And I'm like, I'm just kind of watching. He's like, what's going on?

He's like, let's go. We're going now. We're going now. And he's like, why, why? And we're going now. What's next going on here? So he goes, he goes, hey, let's go for a ride. Okay, we're going to drop her off.

I forget her name, but we're going to drop her off at her parents' house over in Jersey. Let's go. Like, okay. We have time before this show, you know, and we get in the car. And it was probably 45-minute drive or so maybe it maybe about an hour to her parents' house. And we're in the car and no one's saying it works. I mean, no one's saying anything. Lou smoked a lot.

His wife smoked too. And I'm telling you, they were just chain smoking. I mean, I'm sitting in the back seat. They're just chain smoking the whole way. I'm like, wow, this is just kind of weird. So they get there and they get out of the car. And I jump out in the back seat. I jumped into front.

And I'm like, what's going on? What's the deal? He's like, well, you know what I do. do. I'm like, yeah, he goes, this is, and I'm ignorant towards a lot of this stuff. Like, I don't know that there's things, like, I don't know a lot of the things that go along with the paranormal. I just was a guy who was fascinated by the whole thing. He's like, well, sometimes things, you know, follow me home.

Like, what are you talking about to follow your home? He's like, well, you know what I do? He's like, you know, in this, he's there, especially when it comes to like, you know, the demonology stuff, he's like, you know, my, my job is to get rid of this stuff. And They don't want that. And there's repercussions of those things. And I'm just in that thinking of stuff. Yeah, you're kidding me.

So I'm like, okay. And he said, and unfortunately, you know, Antoinette, that's his wife, the Antoinette. He said, unfortunately, they have, they've been through a lot because of the work that I do with things that have happened in the house, things like that. They've been in and out of there, I guess, for a while. Remember things get crazy, he takes them somewhere else until he thinks that things are clear, and then they can come back. He told me that he had priests, rabbis, pastors. I mean, I guess you named the denomination has been there to this house and just couldn't seem to take care of the problem,

which kind of confused me as I thought, this is what you do. I mean, if you can do this for other people, at least this is what you say you're doing other people, then how can't do it in your own home? So it was very, very strange. And, you know, they went there, and that was kind of it for the for that and uh you know we get ready to do the show so we're down there and we're doing everything and um show goes goes goes as well as planned and everything and it was over um and and

he did the show in his basement it was very small down there as well actually the stairs went down to the basement were really narrow i mean i'm i'm not a big man at all i'm like five nine 170 lose a big guy i could barely squeeze down these stairs i was shocked he could get down these stairs And they were noisy, there were noisy stairs also. Olds her home. So the show was over, and I was going to drive home.

And he said, okay, and he went upstairs for something. I'm still down in the studio. And I'm just kind of checking things up. It's my first time there. I'm kind of looking around a little bit. I guess kind of being nosy, if I'm being honest.

And I noticed that there was a window that was on like street level, you know, with the street up there because it was in the basement. And you could see, you know, out onto the street. And there was a little ledge right there. And there was all this stuff on the ledge. Like weird stuff.

Like there was like a, I don't know, like a, like objects. It was like a little doll. There was other kind of things. And just things were kind of odd looking at. I think there was a 10 and other weird stuff. So I mess around this stuff a little bit. and all of a sudden I hear, what are you doing?

And it's Lou. He's like right behind me. I mean, scared me to death. I never heard him coming, which is also odd because those stairs were really loud, you know, so it was bizarre that I didn't hear him coming down the stairs. Because if I would have heard him,

I would have probably stopped what I was doing just to, you know, and just left the stuff alone. And I said, I said, nothing, man, just checking out this stuff. What is this? he goes, don't touch those things. I'm like, well, what is it? He said, these are things that he collects from these different cases that he feels things

are attached to. So he's telling me this. And I'm kind of recalling the entire conversation that we had on the way back in the car, how we couldn't get rid of stuff. Now, I don't know anything. I'm not an investigator. It seems logical to me that if something that attached to something, if that's even possible, then why would you have it like this?

Like just sitting there where I can touch it, you know, your kids can touch it. And not enough to touch this is now something going to be happening, you know, with me. I have no idea. So it was kind of odd. And then he explains me later on how, you know, like I think I mentioned to you that, you know,

the warrants had collected things like this and had like a museum. And that was kind of one of his things also. But I think, because I've seen stories about it since, that they had more like a separate thing aside their home that you know that's where they kept this stuff

not sitting there on a ledge of a window in your in your basement um so it was just kind of odd to see those things those things kind of sitting there so um that was kind of how that whole experience

went and then so that was you know so things those were just kind of going out to children further along and everything and uh you know um then some things sort of happening sort of in in my life a little bit that were I guess they weren't so uncommon but they just were kind of like a series of bad things that kind of happened in a row you know the first thing that happened is well I lost I lost my job um I was laid off from the job that I had about two weeks after after 9-11 happened and at the time I thought well okay that's it you know I was living I was living in a real so big inexpensive area um I I wasn't in a huge rush to go out and find a job because I thought, okay, well, now I can really, really get into this show. Now I've got all kinds of time to dedicate to, you know, helping this thing move along, you know, even further than we were going.

So I thought, well, this is good. This is pretty good. So that's kind of what happened. We started getting into it more. We're taking the ways we could actually, you know, pursue things and get things even more kick-started. And so one of the things we talked about doing was doing. a lecture type thing. I guess back at that time

Lou had the idea that going on the circuit and taking his kind of like his show on the road a little bit, do you like live presentations at places could be another good income stream to help things to the show. So, okay, well, that sounds great

to me. How do we do this? So we just sat down and we kind of put together a template-type form letter and most of the places that were hosting stuff like this were like colleges, universities, some churches, and not very many. And that was kind of it. So we just sat down and started sending out letters, these emails to everyone and got some responses, you know, coming back to us. The first response we got back was from Wilkes University up in Wilkeshire,

Ph.A. and they were very excited because they'd, I guess, some kids on the campus had heard of his show before. I'm not really sure how it heard of the show, had seen him on different TV programs and things like that. And so they were, they decided to have us, they booked him for the presentation. And it was actually pretty good money. I mean, I forget what it was, but our argument was whatever, whatever the amount was, you know, we would split down the middle. we put half of it away to help, you know,

with newer gear for the show, better, you know, better, the thing we had, people were able to call into the show, the thing that we had, again, I don't know about the details, but it wasn't very good.

The call quality was kind of poor. So whatever the next thing up from that was, hey, we'll put money away towards that. It was kind of expensive piece of year. And then whatever else is left, you know, we'll split after travel costs,

we'll just split between this and, that's how we're going to roll. Okay, great. So, the night of the lecture comes, and I've been to the college several times, giving them flyers to pass around and to hang in different places, and it's getting pretty exciting because we're getting a lot of, we heard there's going to be a pretty good turnout for this thing.

So the night comes and I'm there, and I think we're starting it, I'll say 8 o'clock, I think he's starting 8 o'clock. I'm trying to reach him like, like, for hours beforehand. And this was before, I mean, this was before, like, texting, wasn't what it is now. There weren't smart phones. It was just kind of like your old those even flip phones that I don't think. It's just kind of like a big block you should carry around.

There may have been texting, but probably not. I can't reach him. He keeps going to a voicemail over and over and over and over again. I'm like, all right, he's probably on his way. So it's like 7.30 and there's still no sign to him. Now I'm starting to panic a little bit

because now people are showing up. The room we're going to be in is kind of full. I don't know what he needs as far as setup goes. He was planning on bringing slides. He was planning on bringing some, there was no PowerPoint thing, Beth. This was old school slide, stuff like that, maybe some pictures and stuff.

And now it's like quarter to eight, and I'm like, oh, my God, I'm really getting nervous. Now I'm calling his wife. She doesn't know where he is. He's not answering his phone. Finally, at like five of eight, he comes rolling in. and I'm like, oh my gosh, man,

we're worried, I'm dying here. Like, like, I'm nervous. People are in the room waiting to you. He's like, no, no, no, no. He's like, I want to get some new stuff for the presentation tonight. Like, well, what do you mean? He's like, I wanted to go over to so-and-so's house. But the person he got that other EDP, I mentioned earlier,

he wanted to go back to that person's house and see if he got anything new. He goes, where do you hear it? He goes, what do you hear what I got from there tonight? Oh, my gosh. So he, he was just good. He just, he, he, he, he, he walked in, you know, I'm, I'm kind of the kind of guy that

if I'm doing something like this, I need like an hour to kind of, kind of, you know, feel myself into it and kind of relax a little bit. And then, now I'm ready to go do it. Not him. He rolls in with, like, two minutes is there, grabs a little microphone and he's up on the stage and boom, he's right in. Like, okay, this is the gifting this man has. So he started talking and, and he, he had some pretty good stuff.

He had, he brought some things looking that I'd never, doing before. He had video of, you know, quote unquote, exorcisms he'd been a part of and the video was pretty compelling. Like I'd never do this stuff before. I'm watching these things. I'm watching these kids in the room. They're like horp. I think like they're watching like, you know, some scary movie for the first time. It was pretty dramatic stuff. And then he was playing, he said, hey, tonight, there's a special thing. It's probably an hour into the whole thing. I'm looking around the room and he was really, really good.

was just like, you know, eyes on him, focused on him the entire time. And he said, well, just for tonight, he's there. I went out earlier today and to a place known for a lot of activity and got some new EVP recordings. And I want to play him for you now for the first time. He said, I had him in my call and look here. I heard him in the caller, so I'll play him for you. And he's playing the stuff.

And it's the same stuff I mentioned earlier, but it's like, it's like up a notch even. Like before when there was like two voices, there was like three, sometimes four, sometimes you heard like a chorus on top to each other, just this, just this crazy stuff. And it was kind of terrifying stuff. You know, it wasn't, it was disturbing. But again, you know, it's the kind of thing where you're scared to death, but hey, give me, give me more of that, give me more of that. So it kind of went on like that for a little while. And it was, did a few more, a few more presentations like that in different areas and same kind of responses and things and kind of rolled that way for a little while.

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Hunticiller.com slash confessionals. I highly recommend people going and getting involved in Hunt a Killer. It really is a great opportunity for you to get involved in true crime in real time. Tony, you've made a mistake. Your efforts are futile. You can't stop what you don't control. Now I'm going to bring back your interview. with Joe. And when this show is over, I trust you will see things. My way.

You have a pretty good guest on the show. We had some really good people on there. One of the more notable ones that was really a lot of fun that we had on was, you know, you were here Robert W. Morgan. Yeah, I actually was at a conference where he spoke at recently. Yeah, yeah. So I, same as I usually do, I heard him on. on the art bell show, and his contact info was on there. He actually, I heard him, he had done a show where, it's kind of a famous show now, I guess. There was a guy who was on the show, who called into the show, a lot of it was on there named bugs. This guy's bugs from, he was from Texas.

And this guy had claimed that he had shot a big foot, maybe one, maybe the two of them. And buried him somewhere. know in Texas and it was a really fascinating show um and he said you know you know he felt comfortable that he knew where they were buried that their bodies should still be there um and uh you know he felt like Robert was the only one he wanted to to disclose this information to and it was fascinating the whole account of the situation down there so I emailed Robert and he got right back to me and he's wanted to be on the show.

So we had him on one night, and he's, he's a tister of that guy. He's, he's a really funny guy, um, uh, just, just a character, just a character. And, and to hear Lou was also a character, you know, to hear them two on the show together was just, um, it was great. It was like a, like a comedy routine, serious, but there's also like a comedy routine, just just tease other back and forth and things like that. And Lou's thing wasn't big foot at all. He was, he was strictly like a ghost guy.

maybe it's the UFO guy, but never, never the big foot stuff. So the show kind of ended with Lou asking Robert. He's like, oh, hey, he's like, can I come out with you sometime on an investigation? And I'm sitting there. I am and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's go. You know, I'm all excited to get. I'm going with you. I'm going, I'm going with you.

But I'm like, pipe is profusily. Yeah, yeah, let's do it. Let's go, let's go. So Robert's like, yeah, absolutely. Love to have you guys out some time. So, you know, and I'd seen this guy before. Like when I was a kid, gosh, back in the early 70s, he was in a couple of movies. Like I think Bigfoot Manor Mip he was in, which was a whole thing about his experiences in Washington State.

And there was also a really cool movie also back in the early 70s. Peter Graves was the host of the show. I think it was mysterious monsters. And Robert was also on that show. And that was the first night of I saw the Taddy film. That's kind of what did it for me, I think. I probably saw that film when I was four or five years old, which wasn't too long after it actually.

I was born in 69, since the early 70s. So when I saw it, it wasn't very many years removed from it was actually filmed. I remember watching that and just thinking, even if a kid, like, wow, what is that thing? It looked real to me, you know, as a child, you know? Um, so the, the opportunity to potentially go out into the woods with a guy with this kind of experience, I'm like, yeah, we got to go. We got to go. We got to go do this. So, so we did. Um, you know, after the show was over, we, we, you know, exchanged content information and times and this like that. And, uh, he invited us out. Um, we went out in, in, uh, was it October and went out there, October, 2001. Um, um, we went out in, in, uh, was it October. Um, Actually, when we were driving out there, we had the radio on, we were driving out to a place where Robert was actually pretty, I guess, pretty good activity going on. And not too far from where we were, a couple hours drive.

And on the drive out there was actually the same day that George Bush, I guess, declared war on Iraq or whatever we did after 9-11 and went over there. That was a big thing on the radio as we were driving out there. That's why I think it was keeping my head to know the timeline of that whole thing. So the night we're going out there, the deal was I was going to drive down from I was with him from his house and they were going to drive out from there, do the show live again from 11 to 1. After the show, get in the car, drive the five or six hours to where Robert was and meet him there in the morning, stay over and go out with him. So we do the show. And actually, we had Robert on the show again that night. We were kind of promo in the fact we were going out there.

He was on again that night. So we're getting ready to go. And once again, I'm down there in that basement by myself. And Lou went upstairs for something. And I'm sitting there. And I was kind of falling asleep a little bit. So it was like 1 o'clock in the morning. And I'm woken up by this.

It sounded like someone was tearing a piece of cloth, like that tearing sound. And it was loud enough to where it woke me up and kind of startled me. Um, I thought I was hearing things because I was kind of half to sleep. And I, I was sitting with my feet up like on this desk, kind of like reclining a chair, my feet were up on a desk. So I'm hearing this. I open my eyes and I'm hearing it and hearing it. And Tony, I just don't have a heart attack. Like I'm like, and no one's around, you know. I felt this. This was not me in some sleep state where I imagine it. I felt something. thing grab a hold of my foot.

To the point to where I kind of, I probably even yelled. I must have yelled because he came down to says, well, what's going on down here? I told what happened. He's like, no, no, no. He always tried to sort of push things off, you know, or minimize it. Is this like it was nothing? I'm thinking it's not nothing when I'm sitting here. And I, not that I felt a hand, but something, you know, something grab a hold my foot.

So, I think, all right, whatever. So we get ready to go. What I didn't know is his wife was planning to make him a trip out there with this, which was fine. Not a big deal at all, but it was fine and everything. So we go out there. And we hook up with what's Robert out there. And this was going to be a really, I was so excited.

I was like jumping on the vet to go out there. I had never done anything like this at all my life. And I'd always been fascinated by that topic, but I wasn't a really. researcher. I didn't know stuff. And I didn't, you know, I'd never been in the woods actually actively trying to find something. So Robert met us at the hotel. We were staying right at the hotel, not too far from the area to where he was doing his research there. And I came, I mean, I do like to hike and things like that. So I came prepared to be out there, you know, to hike,

you know, the proper clothes, proper shoe wear. So we're getting ready to go. And Robert shows up with a friend of his. This other guy comes with him. And I look at Lou and I look at his wife. I'm like, we're going. Like, yeah, we know, we're going. His wife's got like a fur coat on. Like, they can go on to like the theater.

And I, I'm not kidding you. And like high heels shoes, you know. Oh, no. Lou's not quite that extreme, but he's not like, he ain't ready to go. I'm like, you guys are going like that? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll be fine, we'll be fine. All right, that's, that's great.

So we go out there, and I could tell, even, even Robert kind of looked at them kind of odd, like, you don't really know, like, I don't know what they thought they were going. If they thought they were going for a storm through, to do a park like sitting, like somewhere in Philadelphia or that's not what we were doing. So we get, we get out to the area, and it's fascinating. Like, we weren't on trails. We pretty much parked the car and started walking, just started walking into these woods. You know, they were struggling to keep up horribly. And this guy, this guy, Robert Morgan, I mean, he's easily twice my age and then some. And so I was probably in my early 30s.

He's probably got to be in the 60s, it's not in mid-60s to most 70s. This guy could move through the woods like a spirit. Like, I'm not even, I'm not even kidding you. I was watching him. I couldn't keep up with him. He, he, he kind of walks. He has his hands in his pockets, and he kind of almost like hops when he's walking. I mean, you got to see it.

And I'm like, I'm breathing like, I can really keep up. And Lou and his wife are way behind. They can't even have to move, you know. and this was my first experience, you know, to get to, you know, to get to, yeah, with something like this. And he taught me a lot just, just in those, just in that couple hours we're out there with him, you know, that particular afternoon. Um, you know, his big thing was, you know, look for things that, that seem like they're out of place, things that, that shouldn't be where they are, but for some reason they are, things that probably anybody else walking around in the woods would never even notice. Like, you just probably walk right past this stuff and never even, never even, never even,

never even bother to take a second look. So the other thing he's always telling me is he goes, he goes, you know, so many folks are so interested in getting the footprint. They want that track for the picture or the cast or whatever. He goes, he goes, spend your time walking around the woods with their heads down, looking down. He goes, don't do that. He goes, walk with your head up.

He's there, look for things that are above your head, not below your head. And I didn't really know what he meant by that. you know, told him later on he was talking about, you know, looking for things that are like that are made with a hand. Look for something that couldn't be, couldn't be out here that was

made by something native to the area. But then it has to have kind of a thumb and can grip and make things, you know, which is just, you know, this is before I seen pictures on the web. I didn't know what tree stockings were or

these, these tepee-looking things or none of that stuff. Never even occurred to me that these things could be what people would see in potentially active areas. So a couple of the cool things about him is he doesn't food feed you. Like he makes you think, which is cool. You can ask him a question, but he always like kind of answer your question with the question. Frustrating because I just want, maybe sometimes, I just want to answer.

Just give me the answer. I don't know what I think, but just tell me what it is, you know. that's how he was. And so I think I saw a lot that that particular day down in that that came that we were in. Thinking back on that time now, there was definitely some scientists of stuff. We planned on going back out that night more in the dark because I could tell I could tell Robert and Scott that he was with were kind of excited. I didn't know why they were excited, but I can tell, because they were talking each other all day back and forth. I guess, you know, private things between them or that they would know, and I know that they're talking about.

But I think what they were saying is that they saw some things that were given to believe that there was something else, something going on here. Some activity was here that had been here maybe previously. To the point to where he's like, listen, you guys want to come back out here tonight with us. And I'm like, of course I do. I'm all over this. Like, I can't, boy, I mean, they're going to sit in my hotel and watch TV on. by a long way to be out there. You know, this big foot guy, you know,

in a chance of a lifetime, of course, we're coming out there. Lou's wife decided not to go. I think she really, the way she struggled, you had to see her. You had to see her. This poor woman's walking around over rocks,

over hills. You know, there was just no way. So she, I guess you realized that this was a bad idea. So she stayed back. So, uh,

we went out that night. And, um, we walked around a little bit. And it was a pretty, it wasn't a full moon that night, but it was, it wasn't pitch black. It was, you could see around. And Robert, you know, definitely knew his way around. And we grew out for a while.

And he decided to sit up in this area that was kind of like an open field. And what he had said is he wanted to sit into an area to where we could all kind of sit facing each other, you know, across from each other. So that we could see pretty much 360. There wouldn't be anywhere anything can kind of come up from behind us because there was enough room between where our backs would be to any kind of a tree line to where nothing's going to kind of come in, you know? I don't know what he's talking about. Like, what's going to come in? Like, what's going to happen here? But so we sat and we sat there for a long time and he's a fascinating guy to listen to as well.

He has stories and stories and he could just, I mean, I can listen to the guy for hours, just telling stories. and that's what we did. Now, he was facing me, Lewis to my left, and sitting on the ground, losing my left, and the other gentleman was to my right. He was in his friend of Roberts.

And for a long time, for probably 15 minutes, behind Robert, I don't know how far it was, I kept on seeing like a little red light, kind of far back. I made an assumption,

I didn't really know where we were. My bearings were completely, gone. I didn't know if there was campsites around. I didn't know if there was, I didn't know where the closest person could possibly, I know we walked for a better than a long time to get to this spot and we weren't walking on a marked trail of any type, but I really didn't know where we were. So I wasn't really paying much attention to this, this light. I thought it was maybe a campground and some kids maybe were out there with one of those laser pointer things. That's kind of what it looked like from where we were. And I'm watching this for a while and everyone's just

kind of talking, and then Lou had the idea. He'd brought that recorder he had that seemed to pick up these EVPs, you know, magically somehow. He wanted to try some stuff. He's like, he's like, would you mind if I try to record some things while we're sitting here? Robert was in, so he's like, yeah, yeah,

do whatever you want to do. And so Lou is the saying things, I forget, like, you know, is anything here, if anything is here, do you want to communicate with us, you know, what are you? Just questions like that, he's asking out loud. All this time, I'm watching, I'm still I'm still watching this light bouncing around. And it's kind of intermittent.

It's not always there, but then it's there. It's not always there. Which is not taking out. These kids are playing with a laser point. But then I see another one kind of come in. And when I say come in, like, there's one there, and then another one kind of comes flying in from what would be my right towards it. And I said to Robert, I said, Robert, what's around here?

He's like nothing. I said, is there any houses or anything? He's like, no. We're not near anything. He's like, you know how far we walk. Like, yeah, I guess. I said, well, what's that behind me or behind you? He goes, what do you see?

And it all said, it's not there. I'm like, what the heck? Like, now I'm speaking of this guy's driving. I'm crazy. I said, I don't know. I thought I saw like a red light or something bouncing out back there. And he turned and looked at me. And the way he looked at me, and it told me his voice, he was like, where was it?

I said, well, it was like right behind you, but several, maybe 50 yards, you know, back in that tree line over there. He's like, let's go. Now, again, I don't know anything about life. I don't want to just recently from other podcasts like yours and others, even heard mention of weird lights in the woods that seem to be, for whatever reason, around big foot activity. You know, this is something that completely formed to me, again, up until just maybe in the last year or so I've ever heard of this stuff before. But I can tell, when I told this to him, he got really anxious. And we got up and he's like, he goes, let's walk towards where they were. And we're walking towards where they were, and there it is.

And then there it is. And it was so bizarre, though, because it seemed like, it's kind of one of those things where you've got, couldn't get close to it as we're walking towards it like i was sworn we should have been where it was and it's it's it's not it's it's also like it's backing away as we're walking towards it which was freaky because it never got any bigger or smaller it was always the exact same side i would have thought that as it got further away or we got closer to it that it was kind of a size difference but it never was just was the same maybe like a baseball size maybe not any bigger than that and the size of my fist,

like there. And then the other one came in again. And now there's two of them. And now they're kind of like doing this like bouncy thing. And I'm like, oh, come on. So you guys, I said, you must. I'm thinking in my head, I'm saying it a lot because you guys must be mistaken.

There's got to be a campsite back here. There's got to be some kids out here playing around with these, because it looked just like those laser-pointered things. And again, we're walking towards it. Now, now I'm getting. kind of weirded out because now I know we've walked to the point to where if there was a campsite from the initial time I saw them, we should have been on it. Like, if there was anybody camping right there, we'd have walked right into them. And there wasn't. Um, the lights continued to

bounce around for a little while. We probably watched him for five minutes or so. Um, all the while, who's got this recorder going? He's still into doing this EDP thing, you know, um, and, but it kind of was over kind of anti-climatic you know it wasn't we didn't explain anything nothing happened as far as um what I would consider to be any kind of like a big foot type activity thing nothing like that

and uh but again they were they were Robert was very excited and we got in the car and I could to leave there we walked back and everything I can tell that there was a lot of um what

like anxious thoughts towards this whole thing was going on And then I'm trying to explain it away. I'm like, no, it was probably this. It was probably this. I'm being the ultimate skeptic. Like, there's no way to do anything weird besides whatever. I don't know, Lou got really mad at me.

Like, he's like, don't do that. He's like, we had experience out there. I'm like, what are you talking about? He says and he goes, he goes, that happens all the time when, like, he'll be on one of his investigation cases and something really crazy will happen. Like something bizarre will happen. And I guess what people try to do and maybe this is true. after you get away from that situation that you're just in, when things were happening that were completely, you know, unexplainable,

I guess maybe your rational mind tries to take over and say, well, no, it could have been this or no, it could have been this. He's like, don't do that. He's like, some of my, that's just trying to do that. After an experience, I'll say, like, well, it was probably this. It was probably that. Like, no, you were there in the moment. This is what was going on.

It wasn't any of these things. Like, okay. Well, that is what it is. So that was kind of the end of the night. you know, we drove back the next day. We stayed in touch pretty closely with that organization. You know, Robert had a organization back then called the AARF, the American Anthropological Research Foundation that was involved with the, you know,

the Bigfoot research, and he had a lot of other things he was into also besides just that. that were kind of like under the under the title with we call the AARF is for short, you know. And he had mentioned, he goes, you know, one of the things that he might want to branch into is more like, you know, things that lose involved. But he didn't want to do it. But, you know, I guess he's trying to get like a well-rounded type of an organization

that involves a lot of just kind of strange things, you know, like the Bigfoot research. There's one of the things he had going on. It was like psychic research. weird things with the brain type research were kind of interesting and he thought maybe Luz thing might be a nice you know, nice thing to be involved with this whole organization. So we kind of kept in touch with him through all that stuff and it got to the point to where like that was looking like it was going to happen. And I got really, none of those I was working on news show pretty steadily. I was also starting to work

with, Ms. Robert and on his stuff. And we got to be talking. pretty close to the point to where I was kind of like, you know, helping him with his website, doing some, he had a couple really cool CDs out at the time, you know, Bigfoot types CDs, helping him with some merchandising. He was partnering with Ron Moorhead of the Sierra Sound. They're doing things together. So it was kind of cool being part of that whole, you know, organization. And this is like, you know, for me, I could dream, I could dream because this is the stuff

that I was a fascinating, but I was a little kid, you know, now I'm like in it with these, with this whole stuff going on. It got pretty heavy to the points to where the gentleman who was there with this that night out on the trip, in the fits, he came out to my home in PA to talk about other things. And we were to meeting at my house, and Lou wanted to come up in Philadelphia also to talk about these things. So we did.

I had to meeting at my house. And my wife at the time took it. And she took an immediate dislike through. She just told me she's like, I got a bad vibe about this guy. She, you know, caught women's intuition. She was, in hindsight, she was absolutely right. There was more of this than, you know, I guess I was kind of blind to it. So I'm just meeting and everything and a couple hours ago by and stuff and we're talking about things.

And it was sitting in my dining room. And I had kind of had my back to my computer. to my left is like a filing cabinet, like a low filing cabinet, like a, you know, waist high. Lewis kind of sitting across from me and there's gentlemen, Fitz of Seneca, can see it across from me. And we're just talking, you know, having a good time, talking and everything. Out of the corner of my eye, on the, on the family cabinet, there was a phone book, believe it or not, old school. A big old, big old, you know, thousands-some page phone book was sitting there. And out of the corner of my eye, I just see this thing slide off the finally cabinet.

it and hit the ground. It just, it wasn't close to the edge. It didn't fall off by itself. It just fell off. And I turned my head and I look at this guy's fits. I said, did you see that? He's like, did I see it? He said, how could I miss it?

I'm like, all right. I looked at Lou and again, he just barely even acknowledge of stuff like this. Like he didn't even, I said, do you see that? He's like, oh, no, I really went like, what happened? Like, come on. You were looking at me. Your purple vision had to a scene.

you know what went on here um but he kind of just again you know blew it off and and didn't act like nothing never happened um and uh you know the night went on and he eventually asked if he could if he could he didn't want to drive him back you know two hours of in Philadelphia and he asked me to stay and I remember uh my wife at the time what I already expressed to me that she really didn't didn't didn't care for the man and saying you know honey could can move can you stay over tonight you know kind of like a And she reluctantly said, yeah, it's fine. He's got to go, you know, first thing in the morning.

So he did. You know, and that was kind of the end of that night. And, you know, we got more involved in the whole, the whole, you know, AARF slash, you know, Lugentility kind of combination thing. It got pretty interesting. We had some really good experiences together with that whole whole thing. I got to go on some more expeditions out to, um, out to the area where the research is going on and had a few experiences out there that were kind of kind of uh kind of strange but um you know the show was really

far and all cylinders now so we're we're getting some pretty good guess we have like we did a whole week on like the experiment which was if you know that story at all that stuff is just like insane um yeah exactly a week on that alone with you know about that yeah so i remember speaking to the guy who was supposed to be the guy that the movie was based on this guy, Al Bilak was his name. He was in his 90s back then, so he's probably long gone now, but this guy called me and he's like a pre, a pre interview before the actual show interview. And for two hours, this guy just just blew my mind. I remember thinking, this guy's actually, he's either, he's either completely insane or he's a genius because the things he was talking about, the time travel and how this guy was his brother in a different time and they met each other at a different time.

I mean, I couldn't even begin to tell you all the things that went on with that. And we did a whole week on that. The show was really going. I had a few controversial shows. One show I was really kind of pissed about was they had this guy on. There was a gentleman who contacted us. One of the ones big cases, I guess, was this town called Dudleyville. They claimed the whole town was haunted.

you know, that was their thing. And I had a guy contacted me that said, no, they're wrong about that. You know, it's just this. It was just some word stories going on back to the day. So I thought he did a good guest for the show. So I told Lou about it. And, you know, Lou was very, you know, protective of Ed Marine Warren. I get it.

He kind of took offense to this guy, this guy was, you know, kind of trying to discredit them as far as this story went. I'm like, well, hey, let's have the guy on anyway. Let's just have mine. He's like, well, okay, we'll have mom, but, you know, this could get controversial. I'm like, what do you mean? I said, this isn't Jerry Springer. We're not doing anything.

You know, I'm not going to have some crazy happen to where, you know, this guy doesn't want any trouble. No controversy. Just let's not do that. He's like, oh, yeah, yeah, we won't do anything. We won't do anything. So this is a really nice guy. I forget his name, but he was a really, really nice guy.

He comes on the show, and I'm home, so we're doing the whole chatting back and forth. And all of a sudden, like, maybe, I don't know, half an hour into the show, who said, well, sir, you know, I have a person. a person now on the other line who uh really you know has some disputes to all the things you're saying

my heart sank i'm thinking what is he doing what is he doing so on the other line um he has john zaffis he was a guy he had a show on tv i think it was called the haunted collector um pretty well known he happens to ed and lorraine

warren's nephew you know and i guess a friend luce and the lou has him call in to turn into Jerry Springer. I'm sitting there. I'm just firing IMS to him. Like, I'm just, I'm furious. This is if I'm not mad enough, this poor gentleman,

oh my gosh, he wrote me an email the next day that, you know, just about took my head off. He was talking about legal action because he had a book out. He was trying to, you know, about this whole thing. And, you know, it was stuff like that. But the audience lost to Spike Springer, I guess. They loved that stuff. Yeah.

They loved it. So, you know, I was still mad about it because I liked this guy. But I thought, okay, well, maybe we have, maybe we do, let's try to have some more controversial stuff on, maybe things that maybe the things. We were always having people on that were all about the paranormal. Maybe we'll have people on who aren't about it who are saying, no, this is all, you know, true skeptics who don't believe in any of it. Let them talk to this host who claims to be a. immunologist and let's see how that goes. So I happen

to be doing some research and I found a guy who claimed that the entire ambidore horror thing was a complete hoax. He said he had proof. He was personal friends with the guy that killed his family there before the

left family moved into the house. He'd do them personally and knew the whole thing was contrived and got the other thing. So I thought this guy had to be perfect. I mean, this is a great guest to have on. So I contact him. He wants to be on the show. And we started kind of promoting that a few weeks prior to him being on.

And I'm kind of really pumping it up like here. The guy coming on here that says he knows and don't start in terms, that entire thing was nothing but a hoax. He has the proof behind it. You know, we were saying how he said that he was because, you know, Ed Marine are his mentors and, you know, this guy was going to be on and trying to, you know, dispute them. So it was going to be a thing.

when the intern I get an email from an actor from California who emails me saying you know

would you please contact me this guy that was Rick Osuna that was his name who was in the show this guy's fraud he is just pissed off

about because he was cut out of a project we were working on he said contact me before you even think of this guy in the show So I do.

I contact the guy. I forget his name. Scott. But Scott was an actor from California, who's one of his best friends was a producer out there named Daniel Farrens. And Daniel Ferrens, at that time, his biggest thing was he wrote one of the Hollywood. I forget which one it was. I think it was three or four.

One of the ones that weren't all that great. But he was the writer of it anyway. So they were, they actually had written a, documentary was on either A&E or History Channel about Amityville. And they said that, you know, they were, they were friends with the actual Lutz family. At this point in time, the Lutz family from Amiensville had been out of the, they had to anything in the media for ages. They were kind of like way off the radar.

They weren't even, you know, a thing anymore. This was way before that second movie came out, that remake they came out. I think in the late 90s, early 2000, and 12th and early 2000. with Ryan Reynolds, the remake of the original movie. This is before that. So they contacted me, and they said that, you know, the reason that this guy is all bitter is because he was supposed to be a part of this new project. But they wouldn't tell me what it was.

They wouldn't let on what it was. And they cut him out of it. He was a big believer in the whole thing. And so they did that. And they had, they said they had emails. They could prove that he, you know, he did believe in the whole thing because he was involved with the project to kind of like to revive. the whole story.

And they did. They showed me some stuff that like, okay, it didn't feel like this guy out of his own, his own bitterness sort of, you know, turned on him. And I was trying to maybe, you know,

tank their project. So I ended up corresponding with these, these two guys in California for quite a while and to the point to where we had a phone conversation one night, me and that Scott, the actor guy. And I got to tell you,

at that point in time, I was pretty much living the, I was living the night hours. I wasn't, you know, I was totally opposite of most of the world. My awake time was between like, you know, 10 and 5, you know, because that's when the showtime usually was in those time and sleeping kind of during the day, kind of like a third shift battle should be.

They used to call me late because they were in California, three hours behind me. And one night we got into a heavy talk about a whole annual thing. And again, And they were working on some projects. Again, they were being kind of secretive about the whole thing. But they remember saying, they said to me, you know, we can probably get you in touch with the Lutz family to be on your show.

That was a really big deal back then because they hadn't done anything in agents. I think they had been refusing interviews on bigger shows than us. I mean, we were nothing in the grand scheme of things, you know. We had some old internet radio show. We were nowhere near like a coast to coast. but they just weren't giving it with anybody. I remember telling this to Louis, he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

we got to do this thing. And so when I'm naming this guy was talking on the phone and I got to tell you, Tony, like we were talking heavy about the whole Amityville thing. And like I said, I was used to being up these hours. And I just got I got really sick to my stomach

for like no good reason. And just I just got exhausted. Like I just this overwhelming just just complete exhaustion feeling came over to the point where I found myself I couldn't keep my eyes up on a day of awake

and I'm like what is wrong with me? This guy's talking on the phone with me and I'm kind of being rude so I'm sure he's here and I'm not really answering him like I should be to the point to where like I fell asleep now that doesn't sound so odd but it is odd because that that's not that doesn't happen that just wasn't how

I was at that time These were my waking hours. People being leaked during the daytime, these are my waking hours. And it freaked this guy out so much that I woke up the next day. I woke up, I didn't know when, but the phone is still next to me. And an email from him I wake up to saying, are you okay? You know, we were talking about when you were just gone. And I'm concerned because this kind of thing has happened before.

What the heck are you talking about? So I email him back saying, yeah, I'm okay. I'm not sure what happened either. We talked again that night because he always wanted to make sure. And he said, he's like, you wouldn't believe it, but he's there that's happened to several people, different times when we were talking about this topic that they've just been, they've been fine, and suddenly they got sick for some reason or just kind of fell asleep or passed out or whatever. You know, it was really, really bizarre. So, um, let's see where we go from here. So, uh, you know, they, we talked to everyone more times about different things and they kept them saying, you know, we're going to work, we're going to try and help you get. you know, a show with with the luses and what a big deal that is.

Again, they've got to follow for so long. We did the show with that guy who was the student whole thing. It was really controversial. It was very, very it was animated. It was a heated show and, you know, it was what it was. It was seem like what people wanted to hear. They wanted to hear

things like that. And then I was sitting home one night and 8 o'clock or so, night and my phone rings and I look and the caller ID says Arizona I answer the phone and

I hear hi Joe this is this is George Lutz I heard you've been trying to reach me I'm like you gotta be kidding me this is the guy this is the annual horror father you know from this story and I

I was I was like stunned I first I didn't really believe it at first like that was a book I loved when I was a kid I mean, I don't say I was a fan of Amro Hora. It sounds kind of strange, but I was very intrigued by the story. And now this guy who was like in the spotlight back in the 70s and none of the spotlight for years, somehow he gets my number. He's calling me.

Turns out that those guys from California got up, you know, gave him my number. He got a hold of me. We talked in the phone for it. Oh, my gosh. I didn't know how long was a couple of hours about all kinds of things. And finally got to the point to where he said, let me think about, he said, I haven't done anything in the media. He said, I really don't, I shy away from these things now.

It's been, you know, it's been years and years and years. Let me think about it, though, and, uh, because we'll work on some things like things now that this might be good timing and, uh, I'll get back to you. So he did. And we end up doing, um, and we go a horror week, uh, not too long after that. It was, you know, a week of shows, Monday through Friday. Um, not only did we get him to come on, but we got a couple of the kids. that you know, they're grown up now,

but a couple of kids that were in a party story then. I could be wrong about this, but I think, I think at that time, Kathy, his wife, they went along it together. She either already passed away or was not,

was not really doing very well, so she was not on the show. But in the final night, the big finale, the week was having, you know, him on. And that kind of,

that kind of did it. that that week sort of launched everything. Next thing you know, I know Lou was getting phone calls and emails from different stations and different people who wanted to try and, like, syndicate the show and get it going. It seemed like, you know, all these things that we've been working for were going to happen. I thought, wow, isn't this great? This is my gig now. This is what I do.

I don't look back to working as an engineer which I hate it. I mean, this is going to be it. This is what I'm going to do. And I was, it was like, I was amazed. It was still like a, you know, a great, great thing. He was super excited. He'd already left his job. I don't know how he was making money, but it's nice to move to that.

And the different, um, uh, lectures we were doing still at the time. We're giving enough money to keep himself going. So he'd already been out of his job for a little while. Um, and, uh, off we go. Well, there was a, there was a stuff we needed, like I was a fun of earlier to, take the show to the next level. Like we were on a shoestring budget at best. We had nothing, we had no good gear or anything.

And there was this piece of machinery that he wanted to get to the phone calls of the, of the people calling into the show. Not the guest. The guest always sounded good. It was more like the listeners who were calling and asked questions. It probably just wasn't there. It needed something. So there was a company at the time that would let you borrow, loan out this thing for a little while.

and, you know, see if you like it, try it out. And then if you liked it, you, um, you bought it. If you didn't like it, returned it, you know, no harm, no foul. So we got it. He was good with this stuff. I was not. He set it all up and we tried it out and it was, it was wonderful. I mean, oh my gosh.

The clarity of people calling in was like, like they're in the room next to you. It was perfect. Really did the things that were supposed to do. But I think it was like, yeah, like, five grand. I mean, something like that, between $5,000, not a ton of money, but more money than he'd be. And I had to give more. He had to, you know, take out of his own pocket or anything. So we used it.

I know he had it for two weeks. And I remember, this is what kind of rough up with him, where things were starting to get kind of crazy. I said, isn't about trying to send that thing back. He said, I'm not sending it back. Like, well, you have to. You know, it's got to go back. He's like, no, he said, I'm not sending it back. I'm keeping it.

Like, what are you going to tell these people? They sent it out here, and you're using it. He's like, well, you know, let's just say I don't have to send back an empty box and tell them, listen, I mailed it. I don't know. I don't know what happened to it, you know. Now, I'm hearing this, Tony, and at the time, you know, I wasn't a, I wasn't a Christian man. I certainly am now. I was not at this point in my life, but I was definitely, you know, a believer in God.

And this is a man who was, you know, saying to me, who was doing things, you know, in the name of God. And I realize we all do that, it's even when we are, you know, questions. But this just seemed wrong to me. And why, why, how am I the voice of reason? Why my point is out to you? You're supposed to be added notes all their stuff. So he's like, oh, God I'll understand.

Like, you know, it actually still understand. And I'm using, and I'm using it to, um, further him or something like that. It wasn't like further the kingdom or anything like that. It was like, you know, for his work. I wish I knew what I know now, because I had a lot more ammo to fire back at him to say why that was completely off

of any way or any way or form of being the right thing to do. But that's what it was. And I couldn't believe it. So I said, listen, how much is this thing? You know, I don't feel like guilty. I think it was $5,000 because it's a minute I said, listen, let's just buy it. I said, I could probably come up with $2,000.

It'd be a pub a bidder two or whatever. Let's just buy it. So I did that. And I gave, I remember giving me money. This is probably the wrong thing to do. And, but he still kept up to, he never here pay for it. Like, I know he never paid for it. They had my email, and were asking me where this thing was.

And I kept saying to him, I'm like, hey, I gave you the money. you're buying this thing, but they're emailing me. They haven't got it back yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all taken care of. Again, this guy just started getting weirder and weirder and weirder. You know, things were just getting kind of strange with him.

You know, initially, you know, a year prior, everything seemed to be like, like, you know, his interest in that they're very, very good. And I hate the bastard guy now because it's actually, you know, he actually got it a few years ago. But that's just what it was. It's just what it was. Things just became like,

He just changed. Something was just changing about him. And I noticed that he started getting kind of, we talked every day on the phone, I mean, several times a day. And we were always really cool with each other. And he just kind of turned to a jerk. Like, I thought, I thought it was like shame

or whatever it was, or potential of fame going to his head. I don't know what it was. He was getting, he was starting to get invitations to go to like these horror festivals where like big actors were going to be like these foreign con things and stuff like that

and you do all those things and get a lot of attention with that stuff two more of the ghost hunter shows and fight it on so things are picking up a little bit so I just thought it was just stuck on to his head until I got an email from this guy that called himself I think it was Father John

I forget. Father John was a frequenter of the chat room that I told you earlier one on during the show. That was like his handle. That was his login for the show. And I found out later on this father John would call himself.

He wasn't, he wasn't a pretty sure called stuff that. He was actually a part of Lou's investigative group. I didn't know that. And he emailed me and he said, can we have a phone conversation about Lou? We're worried about him.

All right. Sure, of course. So he calls me. one night at home and we're talking about things and he says you know this is where this is why I was praying with you earlier a little bit

he says you know we're getting worried about him he's been spending an awful lot of time over at that house they got those crazy potential demon EDPs okay

he's been going there they always I guess agreed that none of go anywhere alone you know as a team like a safety of numbers that they just wouldn't go any place alone. And I guess he started going there alone, spending a lot of time there,

and they were fearful that he was starting to become what he thought he was fighting. That something was potentially affecting him in some way, you know, and he didn't even realize it. He was kind of blind to it. And I wasn't really so surprised to hear that. Again, being skeptical, even after all I'd seen

on the show and people I talked to and conversations I had with people who would tell me stuff about things as well unexplainable and still I had this healthy, skeptic, you know, mindset.

And, um, when his father John says, and he goes, have you noticed at all that during the general conversation I haven't mentioned his name? And I thought about it. I'm like, oh yeah, he didn't.

I mean, we knew what we were talking about, but he never would called him by name. He didn't say his name. And I said, yeah. I said, well, why is that? He goes, because whenever I say his name does happen.

And I'm like, what are you talking about? I'll get to chill out. I'm just thinking about it. So he, so he, um, he, uh, he, uh, he says his name. And I'm telling you, man, it's so weird. Like, there was something on the phone. Like there was something

there was something on the phone. And I could hear it. I couldn't hear it like clear. But I heard it. And it sounded a lot like what those EDP sounded like. And I heard this. You know, I heard this.

And I didn't think they got some of the trick out of me. That never going to enter my mind. I did not think that this guy had called me with the intentions of trying to deceive me or anything like that. I mean, maybe I'm just being naive and maybe, but I just don't think so. Because of the, I might have thought that if the feeling that I got didn't accompany hearing what I heard. If I just heard what I just heard and just like, oh, that weird thing I just heard. you know, you know,

let's put out in the background on your phone there. But it wasn't that. It was like, if fear could, I don't know, I'll explain it very well, but if,

if fear was an actual thing that you could touch and not really more like feel inside, if you could touch fear, that's what it felt like. Like, like I touched something

that I shouldn't have, you know? And, and, um, it scared me, man. It scared me.

It wouldn't scare me. It terrified me. Because it happened a couple of times. Because a couple of times, I think this guy said the name by accident, like you didn't mean to, but just because we were talking about him, that it just was natural to say the name.

And it was like clockwork. Like the minute you heard the L, the minute you heard the L of the dam, it was right there behind it. And I'm like, all right. So we, you know, I figured how the conversation ended, but I was, I was freaked out. Like, beyond freaked out. Freaked out, there's even been described what I was feeling.

You know, now what's coming into my head is all these things that I remember. I think, you know, remember being in his home, this weird stuff happening. And how he says things come home with him. I'm thinking, man, did my involvement with this guy in any way, shape, or form? just because I'm involved with it. I wasn't a research. I didn't go to these places with him, but was I somehow,

I don't know, just because of my, what I was doing, did I, my on the radar now for something? You know, I got a family, I got kids,

I don't need this, you know? So, between that and him getting weird, uh, I started trying to kind of phase myself out. I was still doing what I was doing. It was so,

it was so, what sucks about that is because right now we're on the cusp of the things that we've been working for for all this time you know like it felt like it was right down the corner like all of a sudden hey we're going to get syndicated and picked up and this thing could be awesome you know and here it is and then he who called me one day with with that exact news he's like you're not going to believe this I'm like what it tells me that he got some kind of an offer or something and and like here we go. I'm like, and I got to tell you, I, ordinarily, I'd have probably been doing backflips

down my street, but I wasn't even excited about it because I just, I, I knew that I had to get away from this. And what was really strange about that is, I've known this man very, very well for a couple of years. Okay, like I said, we, so we were two and a half hours making each other. We talked every single day. We were, we were together as much as possible. We were like a team, you know. This man wasn't a drink.

He did not drink. He smoked like a chimney, but didn't drink. This was not a drinker. I remember saying to me, we're having a party. Now I'm going to get some alcohol. We're just going to get, we're just going to do it up. I'm thinking, you've never even had a deal with me over dinner. You know, like, this is not, this is not you, you know.

I never seen it to me. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's okay. And it's not that there's anything wrong with it, but just wasn't his character to do that. So I kind of went through emotions for a little while, and then I did some, just some thinking, and I eventually, maybe it was a coward's way out a little bit. I remember I looked at an email to him. I knew he'd be called me after it, but I looked at an email to him and just saying, hey, you know, it's been great, whatever, but so, you know, I got to get out of this because this is, I, you know, it's affecting things, this and that. I got a, I got a, I got a job, you know, whatever.

and he didn't call me. He didn't call me. I thought two and a half hours later. Now, Lou drove this big, kind of funny, big black Cadillac. That was his car, big black Cadillac. Couldn't miss it. We're sitting there, and I'm sitting in my living room,

and there's a window that faced a bit of a bump. And out of the corner of my eye, I see this big, freaking black Cadillac put in my house. Like, oh, my gosh. So he didn't call me. he showed up in my house you know

two and a half three hours later I guess have to read this got his car and drove up here and uh he he talked me into

um because I'm being a wuss Tony for being honest um um who's walked in he's off in me

he's like you know you can't do this you know blah blah blah blah I'm like all right all right you know forget I wrote that

but take it back you know I'll be back with the show again you know Um, and, uh, I think I went through an emotion for a little bit longer. Um, I was getting it's, I got two more emails from that father, John guy, just saying, you know, like, I, I could tell he was concerned about, because the conversation they had on the phone, I freaked out of him until he was concerned. And so, and then just three things were happening. Like, I had a little side business going, you know, like, mental properties and things are sort of going bad in my life. Like, I, I, I, I don't want to see this like, you know, as, you know, it's, you know, I don't want to blame it all to some kind of crazy thing, but it just was kind of coincidental that the things just started going along with my life.

My little business I have inside kind of fell apart. My wife at the time and I are not getting along. We actually end up getting divorced. I lost my business. I always lost my job. Business gone, wife gone. You know, just bad things were happening in my world. And after this, you know, I, I, I, I lost my job.

I emailed them again, said I was done. So cowed twice, two times, two times cowards. You know, I pulled out twice. Shows up again. Shows up again. I couldn't believe it. I thought there's no way Bill's up here again. I'm not around the corner.

It's a, it's a hall. It's, you know, two and a half hours or so, you know, without traffic. And this time I kind of stood my ground a little bit and said, no. I said, you know what? I said, this isn't good for me. It's not good for my family. I got to think about them. So,

uh, I got to, we gotta be done. And that was it. Like, that was it. He, he,

he, he got his car. I never heard from the man yet. I never, I never, I never heard from the man again. I never got a text, a phone call,

an email. Um, like he just, like he just, just, just, uh, it was,

it was, it was, it was, it was, it was kind of bizarre, you know, I don't know what I expected. I don't know if I was expecting every year from again or anything like that.

But maybe I was, not really sure. But he was gone. You know, from afar, I kind of kept tabs on what's going on because I was still on. I mean, I had passwords to all his stuff. I mean, I had to his email list. And I used to send all the stuff out, you know, the email blast. And I had passwords to the, everything I had. I even updated the website here and there.

And he changed everything, of course, which I felt blame for doing. And then I remember I was still on his email last. He's not having enough last thing. He was looking for another new producer for the show, whatever. He didn't go into the reasons of life or anything. And, you know, I guess, like anything, I got kind of jealous of it. And then I kind of, I can watch from afar. and he did have some level of success.

He went on to do some things, and, you know, I kind of saw that happening, and I don't know if I had some regrets, I guess I did, but I know it was better in the end that it did happen that way. And I only got this in trouble because one of the things I thought to mention to you is that somewhere along the way before this he had just got his hands on an FM transmitter not sure I even got it

and he I knew he had it and he told me he tested this thing out one time he put it he puts some kind of a just music on from his house to test this thing and he said he drove from his home like 15 miles and was still picking this thing up but you know how to what else he is

you got 15 miles around you you know that's that's a lot of people that could be a million people and I and that is one of the reasons I think why the show started to really go because you know who knows

you're scanning your dial one night and all of a sudden this show pops on and all of a sudden you're hearing it so that I know that was a big bump but I only got a lot of trouble for that because well that's illegal you know I know we got fine but I see pretty heavily for that um

some of the things happened to him and and I found out just not too long with it He was part of that. He was his chairman for this guy named the amazing Randy, this magician who I guess have like an ongoing challenge of a million dollars.

Randy is like a skeptic, atheist believes in nothing. Everything can be explained. There's nothing in this world decides what we seek. In a million dollar challenge, anybody could prove anything paranormal

in a somewhat controlled environment, you know, a mutually agreeable type circumstance, a million dollars. I don't know what we're talking about that. He wanted to challenge this guy with his EVP recording, you know? And it went on for a long time. And then he kept back in all and backing out.

Especially it came down to it as that, you know, he kind of backed down to it. And it looked to the world as if like he was just a big frog, you know, all big talk. But when you come down to it, you know, we can't walk the walk. It's all much of talk. But I'm telling it. I know those things were real. Those recordings were real. Because I watched him do it.

I got to tell you is when listening to the recordings of the night we're out there in the woods with Robert, he got some stuff on there. I thought I don't know that. He, you know, it sounded. It was so bizarre.

It was like gibberish, sort of. But it almost sounded like, he played it for Robert. like a Native American dialogue. It was bizarre. Like it was just so weird that he picked this thing up out in those woods.

It was just so weird. So I never Even the skepticity, he never really doubted that those recordings were real. And so I was just, I was always curious why he didn't go through with it and actually try and click on that

with that guy. But after that happened, I think these kind of freefalls for from there. I think that that kind of made the world look like he was a big fraud and a hoax and that was it. Then he kind of went off my radar for a long time. And I hadn't heard from Robert in a very, very long time.

We kind of, nothing happened. Just, you know, we just kind of lost touch and stuff like that over the years. And he emailed me. I don't know at one time. And he says, you hear about our mutual friend? And I hadn't. And he told me I guess he read some word that

the liver contracted cancer and died. And actually, this early this week, when I was just thinking about, you know, coming on your show, I was just curious. I went out trying to find some,

I've been trying to find audios or, or something of these old shows that we did, you know, back in the early 2000. And I can't find him anyway. They don't exist. Like, his website is gone. I don't know,

where the archives would be. There's nothing on YouTube. Well, there's something that needs to, with him, but nothing as a show goes. I did try to put the other day of him. And it must have been when he was sick

because, oh my goodness. He was a big man, like I said. He was skin and bones, man. Skin and bones. It must have been, like, you know, towards, like, you know, unfortunately the end of his life. But that's kind of it, man.

That's kind of a, that's a really long story. It's not that I just stumped on you. No, well, I'll tell you, man, like, that was fascinating. I mean, the whole, the whole storyline of how this thing unfolds and stuff. I mean, I wasn't sure where it was all going to go and stuff. But as you were telling the story, it was just becoming more, more evident to me that Lou had some hauntings in his own life that he carried. And it seems like it affected people around him. And it also seems like it affected him in a very negative way as time

went on. I mean, like, I guess from the time that you started working with him to the time that he was pretty much, let's just call what it is, stealing equipment from companies. Like, I'm assuming that that, because he even said during the interview, like, that wasn't the Lou you knew. And so there was clearly a change going on with him. And, you know, when he's talking about, when you mentioned earlier about how you're in this house and you see those trinkets and you're looking at me, he yells at you. Like, he was bringing stuff into his house that could have carried whatever he was dealing with.

And, you know, it's just like he didn't want you going out to do these investigations with him. He was adamant about it. probably because he knew these things were coming back to him. I mean, like, and he didn't want that on you. But over time, it changed him. It changed his whole character. And so it sounds like to me.

You're absolutely right about that. And I, you know, when I think about that now, I saw it happening right before I was kind of blind at the same time. The first time I met him, my first trip down there to meet him at his work that time before he was he'd been working on the show. The one thing about him that stuck out to me was he just had this smile. like this, just this smile that was just like, you know, it would make the world happen. I never seen that.

He was so welcoming. And we just, like, you know, bonded, like, immediately. And that kind of, and I don't ever seen that smile very much after, not immediately after that, but, you know, in the years and so after that, that kind of, I never saw that again. Um, it just became, he became so driven for the success. And then like you said, I, I really think that there's a lot of stuff going on with him. Um, but that guy told me on that on the phone that he, he, he was fearful that he was becoming what he thought he was fighting against. And, you know, I don't know much about exorcisms or demonology and stuff like that. And I really don't even want to because that stuff, frankly, kind of scares the crap out of me. Um, But the one thing that I think I do know, because I've heard enough shows about it and read enough things about it, is that, you know, if you're not right with God and you're trying to battle something like that, you don't have a chance. You know, you never had a chance. I mean, I know that we're all sinners and none of us are perfect, you know, but I think that God knows our hearts are good.

Even when I screw up, I think God knows my heart good, you know. but if that's not where you're at I think that you could be deceived into thinking that you're fighting it and you're winning that actually that's the whole plan to make you think you're winning the battle but you know what you're losing

you're losing it because ultimately it's kind of profound I think it's kind of hit me now I think that Ruth thought that he was doing what he was doing and somehow is glorifying but I think he was glorifying exactly what he thought he was fighting. That makes sense. No, that does make sense. That does make sense. And I'm sure that can easily happen over time. It's not like he woke up one day and just, you know,

started glorifying the things he was fighting against. But, you know, maybe along with success, you know, comes an ego. And with an ego comes, you know, putting your guard down on certain things. I mean, that very easily can happen with anybody. And, you know, it's one of the ego. It's one of those things that even I worry about just never changing who I am as the show grows and things. I don't want to be a different person. I just want to continue to be myself and enjoy what I do, you know, like I just want to be who I am and not really be worried about and getting caught up in what success is. Because what is success? You know what I mean? What is success? Is it money? Is it downloads? Is it, uh, you know, likes on a Facebook page? What is success? You know what I mean? Because I know there's,

there's shows out there that have way more likes on a Facebook page, but I get more downloads. So, I mean, what is success? You know, it's, it's so loosely defined. And for me, for me, success in my life is just, I just want to be happy. I want to be able to provide for my family and see them and be happy. And, uh, you know, I guess some people, it's more money. I don't know, but, uh, Lou might have got his signals crossed at some point, you know, and, and you're right. if you're if you're not if you're not spiritually there to handle exorcisms and things like that like you're going to get your butt whooped whooped because i mean i i i didn't even like that story that i told him the show a couple weeks ago and i shared it you know maybe 20 or 30 shows ago

you know when i was at that guy's house like he's trying he's trying to get me demonically possessed i have no idea what's going on around me and i it didn't work but i did feel that the effects of spiritual oppression. Like, I still got my rear end handed to me. It was because I was clueless. I didn't know what was going on around me. And I spent three hours with this guy just taking a beating that I didn't know I was taking until after I left. And so it's like, you got to be aware of those kind of things. When I was, when I was younger and I was in college, I took, I was one of the leaders that took our youth group to a convention. And there was a girl on the floor. Now, at these youth conventions, you know, they call kids up to,

you know, get prayer prayed for and things like that. And there's this girl on the floor, like the convention's over, like people are leaving. And there's this group of people down in front that are still praying for this girl who's just sobbing on the floor. And my youth group ventured up to the area where this girl was at. And the closer you get, the more you realize there's something else going on here. You hear the people praying for her, denouncing whatever is in her. and she's her crying is more of a howling and and groaning and her body is convulsing and and there's full grown men trying to keep her from moving and she's just like moving these full grown men like from the floor this girl wasn't she wasn't tiny but she was she was an out of shape

teenager teenage girl who should not have been able to move uh these men the way she was moving them. And so my youth group, the kids start diving in, trying to put hands on her. And I pulled them all away. I said, back up. You're not ready for this. Do not dive into something you don't know what you're dealing with. I said, if this girl is demonically possessed and you're not spiritually ready, you might have the problems that she has right now. You have to be aware of those kind of things. And in the Bible talks about it. I mean, Jesus' disciples went in trying to do the, you know, expelling of spirits. And they got their butt handed to them. The demons were like, We know who Paul is.

We know who Jesus is. Who are you? Who are you? Like, I don't know you. And so it's like, I'm not saying you got to hit a certain level of spiritual awareness to do these kind of things. I believe that anybody can do these things. But you have to be aware of what's going on around you at least. I don't go walking.

I've had the opportunity. I've had, even before I started the show, I had people contact me asking me to come to so so is house, they have a ghost or demonic spirits in their house, this or that and the other. And I didn't go. I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready for that. I knew I wasn't ready for that. And I, you know, even before I started to show and stuff, I knew what this stuff had to deal with. I mean, this has been, you know, my closet, what's the word I'm looking for? It's been my infatuation, my entire life, these things, you know what I mean? Like, I was the kind of guy that, you know, I don't watch TV anymore a whole lot, but I would sit around the TV.

And the first thing I'd be looking for is give me some ghost shows, give me some Bigfoot shows. Like, this was what I was about. And, you know, I knew I wasn't ready for that. And so I didn't go because I didn't want to, I didn't want to, you know, bring that back with me and stuff. It's just, I really think, I know I'm ranting right now, but I just really think that a lot of times people, they think they're good, but they got to check themselves. because, just because, you know, you are claiming Jesus Christ, like, where's your heart at, though? You know what I mean? Like, and these are questions that I personally have.

You know, like, if somebody is dealing with the demonic entity and they claim the, they claim Jesus Christ over it, you know, they denounce it in Jesus Christ's name, but that person isn't a believer in Jesus Christ, does it work? I don't know. Because I've heard both stories. I've heard people say it didn't work. I've heard people say it does work. So I don't know. But there's so many questions about this stuff. There's so many unanswered questions that we have. And there's so many people out there that will give you, this is the answer. This is what it is. Listen, I'm sorry. For every answer I get, I can find somebody giving me the opposing answer to that. And that's why I'm such a big proponent when it comes to anything, whether it's cryptids or demonic stuff or whatever,

like, you have to keep an open mind about this and you have to be willing to hear other people's responses, their opinions, their experiences, because that's the only way I feel we're ever going to get closer to understanding what we're dealing with. You know, I have my own opinions on things, but for every opinion that I have, I can find somebody that has a different opinion. And so, you know, taking it back to Lou and everything, I mean, it really does. sound like this is a guy who's been dealing with stuff for a long time, and over time, it got more and more serious. And, you know, I do wonder if when he kind of told you, he's like, no, you're not coming with me. You're not coming with me. I wonder if he at that point in his life

was starting to see other people around him be affected by what they're doing. And he didn't want to bring anybody else into it because he felt, you know, bad about it. I'd like to think, and it probably does believe that that was, maybe he was trying to. it to protecting from that stuff and that that's and I'm thankful for that you know um it's funny because I was telling you earlier about that time when we were

in my dining room about that phone book like took a nose off my violent cabinet you know what was interesting about this is that that's not interesting enough uh like I mentioned before you know my my then wife um she she got a vibe in this guy

and she had she got vibes about a lot of people and a lot of times she was right you know and she did not she she humored me she you know she never gave me a hard time

I'm working on the show um but she got a feeling but even more than that the other guy that was there the night at my house when the phone book fell

that guy I mentioned to you Robert's friend fits who ended up being a pretty good friend of mine um this guy he also told me now this guy was

this guy was I didn't know it because he he was he was the kind of Christian that I wish every person could meet and have to be their first Christian. I never knew it. Like, I just watched this man in the way that he was. He never, he didn't preach at me. He didn't, he didn't, none of those things.

He just was a good man who knew his word and was, it was genuinely a good, loving person. What blew my mind about this guy is a number of things, but I had a Bible in my home at that point in time. I never picked it up, but I think I got it as a wedding gift. So it just sat there. King James Rose, which I couldn't read. I couldn't really read it anyway.

Yeah. But I just can't, you know, even now, I'm like, what is that? But what was fascinating is, um, he said to me, this gentleman, he goes, he goes, he saw it sitting there on my bookshelf. He goes, he's like, you read that thing? I'm like, no. But why not I? Why is it in here?

I said, I don't know. I will. And, but he wasn't, you know, he was just teasing me. I said, why do you? He goes, he goes, absolutely. I said, I said, how, I said, when? He's like, every day. I said, every day you read this book.

He's like, yeah, every day. I said, all I'm even doing that for? He was probably, oh, gosh, he's probably in his late 40s, that one time, he's 50. He's always with that little boy. And I'm like, really? He goes, he goes, he goes, I'll prove to you. Like, all right, he goes, read that book. Okay.

He goes, turn to any page in that book. like okay if I turned to a page and I didn't even know how to find like I didn't even know like Mark 1423 men I didn't even know how to find you know I didn't even know what those things meant you know

he'll turn to a page okay he'd say what page are you on and he would say look at the top and see what the book of that's called he said then he showed me where the verse or not the chapter in the verse told me I did this with this man for probably half an hour

he I was trying to rant them pages. Leviticus. Budo-Arvy. The books don't even want to read because they're just kind of, you know, they are. That stuff. And, okay, it wasn't exactly what it said. You know, it wasn't exactly yet.

But it was close enough to where I'm like, you have this book memorized? Like, weird. You know, just weird. Now we're off about a half an hour. I couldn't even believe it. Like I said,

It wasn't exact, but it was close enough to where it was, like, who are you? So he told me, he told me, because he was actually staying at my home. He came into from out of town. He was actually staying home for a number of days. We were home the next day, next morning after the big sleepover, you know, get my, then wiping him all that's bad. And this guy told me, he goes, you know, just be careful with this guy. And I'm like, what do you mean?

I know, at that point, everything is cool. everything was fine. The thing was really going too crazy yet. And he's like, ah, he's there, I just got a, I just got a feeling for this. It's just, just, you know what? He goes, just get more involved with our group. Get more involved with Robert, you got some stuff going on. And I'm like, well, I said, you know,

I feel kind of loyal, but he also warned me. After all this stuff broke down, I remember calling him and telling him what had happened, and he wasn't surprised at all to hear it. He's like, you know, that's why I try to warn me that this could be a bad thing.

for you. You know, he was, he was right. Again, I don't know if any of things that happened

in my life afterwards that were kind of negative. I don't want to blame it on that, but, but,

well, it wouldn't surprise me. I mean, if that's, if that had, if I had some false, again, I was not a,

what I'd call, you know, saved individual back thing. I didn't have any really solid pieces in my life. I certainly didn't pray.

I certainly wasn't really worried about it, you know? So, but I, I worried about it now because the reason I wanted to do that with you earlier that we did a couple reasons is I wanted to protect the conversation we had you know today so there's nothing we talk

about can have any kind of lasting effects for either for you and the family or myself and my family because a really weird thing happened after I kind of contacted you I told you I heard that show with the EVP and that kind of got me thinking right maybe just do a I'll start with you want to hear so a couple of days after we kind of corresponded back and forth. I live alone now. You know, I'm divorced. I live by myself and I'm small with Little Ranch House, you know.

It was a Thursday night. I had just picked up and dropped off my daughter from dance class, took her home, and probably 9.15 a minute. All I was looking forward to doing, Tony, I just wanted to get home, just wanted to eat some dinner, and all I was looking forward to doing was a show I used to watch called Steaky Pete on Amazon. I wanted to watch the last show. That was my night.

Exciting, right? That's my big, exciting life, watching sneaky peat. I'm a little. So I come home. I go to my bedroom again. This is a very, very small ranch house I live in. I went to my bedroom. I just made a little sandwich to eat,

and I hadn't turned the TV on yet. My finger was in the process of hitting the on button. And I hear crystal clear. Crystal, crystal, clear, I hear a voice. I hear a voice. I'm not going to say what it said. I don't really want to. I'm sitting in the room what happens right now. But I know I heard it. There is not a doubt in my mind. From where my room is, it's done like it came from like my kitchen living area, like around the corner. Like I heard it. My, to the point where I thought, oh my gosh, someone's in my house.

you know, I thought somebody broke in here. I walked in here and caught them, you know, and they're here. I'm shaking like a leaf because that was what I was convinced what happened, you know. Then I hear it again. I'm like, okay, no, I know I'm not hearing things. But I think it's someone's in my, I close my bedroom door, I lock it. I turn to me on, I crank it up. and i called my one one i didn't want who i thought was in the house to hear me calling 911 i don't

want to hear me um i do have i am a gun owner i have guns in my home um i have a i had a handgun in my direct in my uh nightstand next to my bed i get it out of there i put the i put the magazine in and i call the cops and i tell someone's at my home you know tell the whole story uh someone had a gun close to the cops they were here oh my god Three minutes, they were here. I couldn't believe how fast they got here. And they just said, you know, put the gun down, go to the door, let the officer in, you know, show him your hands,

so he knows everything's cool. I'm scared to walk out of my bedroom to the front door, so I have to walk past where I heard that coming spot, you know. I do that. Cops comes in, he comes in the house. At that point in time, I thought the person could have possibly gotten down my basement because the kitchen leads to the basement. They could have gone down to the basement.

And there's a door down there that goes to the outside. If you can lock that door, it's here, is that, that they got it again. He goes down. He's checking things out, nothing. But then two more cops show up. They check my entire house. Again, it's very small here. They're looking under beds behind the shower curtain.

They're a base gallon display. Nothing. They leave. I'm horrified. Again, I don't know if that was because I contacted you. And I have no idea, but it was just very, very odd that that would happen, you know. Because so many other strange things happened, so did the thought of me even going back to that place

in dealing with this topic again? I haven't talked about it in a really long time, but with anybody, you know? Did that, I don't know, wake something? I mean, I hate to use those words in some, like, you know, movie drama type stuff, but I don't know, I had no explanation for that, but I know what I heard.

There's not a doubt in my mind that I heard. It's not a parent once, much less twice. It wasn't threatening. It wasn't threatening. thing, but it was there, you know. And what was freaky about it was, I'm just going to say this. It's not like him.

That's all I'm going to say. Really? Yeah, I mean, I did. It was, it was he did. And I got to tell you, I had a hard time. That was, well, whenever I first contact you for months ago, I guess something like the late, late, uh, maybe,

maybe went to early spring, you know. I had a hard time coming home. here for a long time. Like I told you, I lived by myself, and, you know, home is like your, it's your sanctuary, you know, didn't give a bad day at work or things aren't so good.

You can always go home and things just kind of feel better. It didn't. Like, I just didn't dread going home. I did feel a couple of weeks. I'd stay at work later than usual. that's gone now. I don't do it anymore, but it was really weird. It was just really weird. I don't know. I mean, it could be a coincidence. I know, I know you're hesitant to say anything, you know, but it's definitely weird. And you've dealt with this kind of stuff before. And so you kind of, you kind of know what you're listening for, you know. So, you know, I wouldn't say, I hope you don't feel like you were hearing things, you know.

Uh, I mean, no, no, no, no, no, not at all. Not at all. No, what was, so, but the reason why I say what I just said is because, um, he had a, uh, he had an accent. You know, you know, you know, it's not a, you know, you're, you're kind of down that way. You know, it sounds like. Um, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, like, like, that's, like, that's, there's, like, there's, like, there's, there's, there's, like, there's, like, there's, there's, like, there's, there's, there's, there's, that really, that you really hear that accent in, and one of those words was used. And, oh, God, I shouldn't be saying this right now. No, it's, but anyway, that's why, that's why it was so disturbing because, because of, well, not enough hearing something, then hearing something that reminds you of something else.

No, I don't think I was hearing things. I know I was hearing things. That's not even, because it's kind of echoey in here a little bit. I'm not sure you hear of the phone, but I don't have a lot of stuff in here, so it's kind of an open floor plan, so it's kind of echoey. It was echoey. Like the voice was like, it kind of had that echoey sound to it. Was it loud or was it like a whisper in your ear?

No, it was, it was, from my living, from my bedroom, I'm looking at right now to where that would have been is maybe, gosh, 20 feet, maybe. I heard it coming from there. Like I didn't hear it in the room with me. I heard it coming from where it would have found an echoly, which is kind of what I'm sitting right now. That's why. That's where it came from.

And that freaked me out. Yeah, I mean, it freaked you out enough to take it serious enough to think that you had somebody in the house and you called the police and all that stuff. I mean, you know, I've seen shadows in my apartment when I was in our old apartment. And, you know, I'd never called the police. you know, I knew what was going on, you know, so I, what am I going to do?

Call the police and have them arrest a ghost, you know? I think they thought I was, I think they, I don't want to say they thought it was crazy, but they, they were very nice, they were very polite, did a great job. You know, they were very much, hey, don't, you know, call us, don't hesitate ever call us again. But I'm just thinking, these guys probably think of them out of my mind. I'm hearing stuff. I got my gun out, you know. I'm out of my mind here in this house, you know. But it's just, it's a strange. That's all. It was very, very, very strange. And the timing was kind of weird of it, too. That's like, I think it's what got me a little bit more unmoved. Yeah. Well, you know, I'll tell you what, Joe. I mean, you've definitely had a fascinating life when it came to this kind of stuff. And Lou's story kind of integrates into your story. And it's like, even if you wanted to get away from it, you could. couldn't because his story is part of your story. And it's been very fascinating hearing about it and stuff,

man. You know, before we get out of here with this episode, when it comes to these kinds of things and all the stuff that you dealt with, do you ever have a moment where you feel like you were dealing with more demonic things over spiritual? Or do you think it was more spirits than demonic? Or do you do not, you know, discern between the two? there were there were times I felt fear I remember feeling fear there were times when I was working

to go involved and I go to bed and I would just feel afraid you know and I don't know and I didn't really know why I mean okay I just did a two and a half hour show you know with 11 o'clock at night 24 o'clock in the morning that maybe there's a heavy topic

that dealt with something really scary like a person's house that was possessed or whatever. And so I'm sure that's very much part of it. To me, I'm kind of like, I kind of ride that line where I've heard you talk before. We're like, you know, I once thought that, well, okay, not once. Okay. I used to believe in ghosts. Okay.

Then when I kind of got like, kind of became, when I came from a Christian, I kind of stopped believing in ghost because I just thought that, you know, once we die, that, that's it. You know, you, you, the word says that, you know, one of two things happen. You don't, you don't hang around, you know. So, and I thought, okay, anyone who's seeing ghosts now, they're being deceived. They're seeing something more, you know, we'll say, we'll use the word demonic and they're being, they're being tricked. But more recently, I'm thinking, well, maybe not, because I, because I don't, you heard you say, you know, why are things in the word that they don't need to be, you know, why are we talking about, you know, don't mess with divination, if it's, if it's, you know, if it's not. ain't real. Why did Jesus say, do you think I was a ghost? Why would he say that?

You know, unless there was ghosts, you know? So, I think that I may even do something with more on the heavy side, because I don't, I could be wrong, I have no idea, but I don't think that a ghost ghost, you know, if it exists, um, is something to be afraid of. I don't think so. I could be wrong. Of course, it's going to be startled you because it's something very, very bizarre, but I don't think The intention is often of evil nature, whereas other things, you know, would be. So I think it was more of that only because, like I said, I felt, I felt afraid a lot. And there was times before I decided to leave that I thought about it to you other times,

because there was times where I did feel afraid where I thought, wow. You know, because a few of the guests on there, they had some horrific stories, man. I mean, horrific. I had a guy calling me one time who wanted to be on the show. he wasn't like any kind of a big name guy he wasn't pushing a book he wasn't pushing anything I didn't want to give the show he said he had this

this inclination for remote viewing you know and psychic compressions and I'm talking on the phone he's like I could do it right now I'm like what do you mean he goes I could do it right now he's there I could I could I could

remote view to you right now I said oh yeah I'm not believe in the word he's saying I mean I shouldn't say I don't put it that way I guess there's, again, skeptical. Now, this is before Google. This is before the Internet is what it is today. This is early 2000, you know, where you still had kind of a private life.

You know, things weren't all out there to be seen on the Internet somewhere, you know, we found. This guy starts describing my living room to me. Tony, to the point to where he's telling me where I'm sitting and what color the chair is, I was sitting in a blue recliner, and he said it. And my job, I mean, I don't even, I probably turned every color of purple. I mean, I couldn't believe what I was here to the point to where I told I didn't want him on the show because he freaked me out. You know, he freaked.

This guy, I don't know what this guy was doing. I don't know how he did it. But he described my living room and where I was sitting. I don't think that anything good about that, man. I don't think that's supposed to be okay, you know? Yeah, no, I, I, that would that would frustrate me

because I feel like my privacy has been invaded and then I'm angry. So I would be very frustrated with that situation. But yeah, man, it's just it's a crazy world we live in, man. It really is. It's a crazy world. And

you know, we deal with some supernatural, uh, paranormal type things. And, you know, I'm just, I'm just on a mission to record as many of these people as possible, these kind of experiences to, you know, hopefully people that are smarter than me come across the show and, uh, start putting things together from witness testimony. I think that's, uh, kind of my goal in all of this because I enjoy talking with people.

I enjoy hearing the stories. And I'm not the smartest guy in the world. So I'll let the listeners who are smarter than me, uh, put the pieces together and stuff. I mean, I'll, I'll throw pieces out there when I think of stuff. But, you know, I'm not the, uh, I'm not the one that's going to put this puzzle together, but I definitely enjoy, you know, sharing the people's stories and like that, like yours today and stuff. So, I definitely appreciate

you coming on and talking and sharing all these things, man. It's been fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. You're welcome. My pleasure. And, you know, it takes a smart guy to do what you just said, so I think you a pretty smart dude, man. I just,

I'm a realist, man. Like, I know my limitations. Yeah, you move off. I learn them more and more every day. Yeah, I'm good with the microphone and producing audio. That's about it. You know, it is what it is. Well, we all got our talents.

You do a great job, man. I love the show. You're sitting here and now it's awesome. I'm really thankful that you indulging my conversation. It was nice to actually kind of talk about again a little bit because I've talked about these things for a long time. So, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Right on, man. Well, you take care and, you know, feel free to reach out to me anytime you want.

Okay, I will. Thank you so much. Well, that's the show, everybody. I really hope you enjoyed it. And if you did enjoy it, there are three things you can do to help support the show. One, go to iTunes and leave a five-star rating and review. Two, go to Patreon.com forward slash the confessions. That's patreon.com, forward slash the confessionals, and sign up to become a patron to help support the show. And three, you can go ahead and share the link to the show that you're listening to right now around social media. That will help expose the show to an audience that didn't know about the show beforehand. And until next week, friends, stay safe, take care, and remember, the truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off. Bye.

You could think that I'm a freak when I'm talking to myself, but it's like I was to wait to be someone else. You could think that I'm a creep when I'm singing her alone, but it's like I couldn't see. It's like I was to wait to... You could think that I'm a creep. When I'm singing all alone But it's like I couldn't see straight on my own