The Confessionals - 103: The Demonic Realm

Episode Date: December 18, 2018

We’re kicking off the week before Christmas the right way with a startling new episode! On Episode 103, our guest Justin shares accounts of demonic entities that have haunted him for his entire life. He has endured a number of experiences, including being tormented by a green demon. Justin also touches on the topic of bigfoot, having previously shared his run-in with the cryptid on Episode 248 of Sasquatch Chronicles. On our episode today, Justin touches on the encounter he and his friend had with a bigfoot; one friend, Mike, discussed the same story, but from his own vantage point, on The Confessionals’ Episode 20. ***Please take note, before our interview begins we will address the topic of demon possession by playing some real-life audio recordings of radio hosts who confronted demon-possessed persons over the airwaves. These recordings include an attempted exorcism and may be frightening for younger listeners. Please listen with caution if you have children nearby!Patreon: www.patreon.com/TheConfessionalsWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail]: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcastTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelShow Intro INSTRUMENTAL: www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyub39AXxUwShow Intro FREE DOWNLOAD: https://bit.ly/2HxNcw3Outro Music: Emergent - Dead Letters

Hey, everybody. I want you to know that we are going to be playing some sensitive material on today's show. We're going to be playing some clips of actual exorcisms on today's show. And so I don't know if you have little children that listen to the show, but you may not want them to hear today's show. And also, after today's intro, you're going to hear a transition right into a clip of this coming Christmas Day episode. Let's go. This was all circulating around the base that a giant had been killed, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, bony fingers reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it,

and then disappear. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave, and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing up this giant. With a giant move, he's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast.

And spears, Dan, holds him up like, this. Somebody else shoot them in the face, shoot them in the face. They basically decapitated. And I look over and there are two small gray entities pulling it. And they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed. I reached my hand into this bush and I touch air. Couldn't breathe and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. This was my first known demonic encounter. This was in a church, actually, in my town. It was a community church meeting. So all different churches and denominations would get together, and they had these community meetings.

Well, I'm sitting in there with my wife. And this is the first time I really saw a spirit of any kind. I don't know if this was an angel. I don't know if this was a demon. All I know is what I saw was a giant. It had to be nine feet tall. what happened was they were sitting there listening to the speaker and I see some motion in my peripheral vision on my left. And so when I see it move in, I naturally looked over and I looked right at it.

And it was this, like I said, probably an eight and a half, nine foot silhouette is all I saw of a man, a giant. It looked like Arnold Schwarzenegger, but jacked up ten times. And it was just a silhouette, kind of like in Predator, where you just see an eye. outline of his body. I see this and he's standing there with his arms folded facing the speaker. He doesn't have wings. And all I can tell you, I mean, it just looked like an outline of a giant bodybuilder with his arms folded standing there.

And then I looked again like, did I really see that? And then it was gone. It disappeared. And immediately, I got sick at my stomach. I mean, like, I've got to go now. So I get up and I go to the bathroom. and I'm expecting to really be sick, number two. And I go into the stall and nothing's happening.

I'm not sick feeling anymore. I'm just sitting there. And I hear two voices in the stall next to me. One of a little of a boy, he was about 16 at the time. And I recognized his voice. He was mentally handicapped. And the other voice was a male voice, But it wasn't his dad, because I know, because his dad came in a little later.

So I hear this other voice in there just cussing this kid out and calling him a wimp and he's pathetic and all this. And the boys just crying, leave me alone, leave me alone, go away. And I kind of look over under the stall and I only see this boy's pair of shoes sitting under there. And I kind of freaked out. Well, I shut my eyes and I didn't say anything out loud. but the only thing I said in my spirit I guess I said in the name of Jesus leave that boy alone but like I said I didn't open my mouth this was all I thought in my mind and the boy the the male voice screams no and I kind of opened my eyes and went did did that thing hear me I mean

I don't know this is like playing with a new toy I'm like I don't know how it works so I up my eyes and I did it again. I just said in my mind, it was in my spirit. I said, in the name of Jesus, leave that boy alone. And he starts screaming now and starts bashing the wall. I thought the divider between us was going to come down. So I'm sitting there. What?

That time, his dad walks in and goes, what's his, I know the boy's name. He asks him, son, you okay? And he's like, Dad, I'll be out of a minute. okay. And the dad walks out. And then I just hear this laughing just like that. And I, you know, yank my pants up and I was out the door. That was the first real demonic experience I've ever had. Yep. Welcome to the show, everybody. You're listening to The Confessionals. I am your host, Tony Merkel. Thank you for being here. If you've had an encounter or story you'd like to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is the Confessionalspodcast at gmail.com.

that's The Confessionals Podcast at gmail.com or go to the website the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the connection section and you can reach me that way as well. Either way works for me, just get a hold of me. Now that clip you just heard is a clip that's going to be played from the Christmas Day episode that we're coming out with next Tuesday. I wanted to play that for you because I wanted you guys to know that, one, we are coming out with the show next Tuesday, which is Christmas Day. And two, I think it's a really good episode and I wanted you guys to hear a little clip from it

because it's definitely something you want to check out. And not only are we coming out with a show on Christmas Day, but we're coming out with an extra show for you guys for Christmas Eve. I know a lot of people do traveling around on Christmas Eve to family's houses and things like that. So we're coming out with a Christmas music episode where your favorite podcasters are going to read scary Christmas stories between songs. So this is going to be a great show. I've been planning it for a while now.

I'm very excited about it. So definitely tune in Christmas Eve for the Christmas Eve special specials. show. Now, what I want to tell you guys is we have a very jam-packed show today. So we're going to get right into the things that we usually do and then we're going to get right into the show. So let's do the R-Bell iTunes 5-star ratings and reviews. This week we have Kerry, Kentucky, always phasing, jamming 214 from Gilbert, Arizona, Duke's Mom, Kale Janderee, Matchup Chew, Happy STNR, Crosby 0228, and Ravens 50. Thank you for going to iTunes and leave that five-star rating or review, it helps the show out a lot. And I just

noticed as I was making my notes for the show that iTunes actually knocked me down about 500 ratings and reviews. So we got a lot of crown to make up. We just recently broke a thousand ratings and reviews on iTunes. And now we're under 600. So please go ahead and do that for the show, because I have no idea why they did that. But now we have to redo another 500 ratings and reviews just to get back to what we were just at. So I'm going to email them, but I don't know what's going on. Let's move on here to the Patreon shoutouts. Patreon shoutouts is for anybody who goes to patreon.com forward slash the confessions and signs up to become a patron to help support the show on a monthly basis. This week's shoutouts, we have Shelly M, George M, Annie E, Tyler D, Austin, L,

Brenda A, and Jessica Z. Thank you very much for going to patreon.com forward slash the confessionals to sign up to become a patron to help support the show. It really does mean a lot to me, and it helps the show out a ton. So this week, we have a very unique show coming on here. So my guest and I talk a lot about demonic things and stuff like that. And I even talk about how some people don't believe that demonic possessions are real. So what I thought I do before we even start the show is play you about 20 minutes of audio from different radio shows where the caller called in who was demonically possessed and there is a live exorcism right there on the airwaves. The first one you're going to hear is a girl who is demonically possessed and was raised in a satanic cult and was being

groomed to be sacrificed. And you're going to hear the first clip where she's calling in. And then the second clip is actually her mom telling the radio host to mind his own business and leave the family alone. So let's take a listen right now. 1-800-821 talk is the on-the-air number. And I tell you, We've got some very tense situations here right now. Now, Rebecca, I want you just listen to me for a minute, okay? Yes. Okay? Yes.

Now, we want to help you, and the people who gave you this number knew that we would be able to help you. Now, we can help you in a number of ways. The first thing we can do is pray for you, okay? It doesn't hurt. Pardon? It doesn't hurt. You do not have to cut yourself.

You don't do anything. You just listen. right now. Okay? Uh-huh. In the name our Father in heaven and His Son, the Lord Jesus pray, we just pray right now for the peace and comfort of God to come upon Rebecca. I pray that her mind may be opened, and I pray that the power of the Holy Spirit may come

upon her. We bind all the powers of darkness. We bind all the work of the end. the work of the enemy and we make every evil spirit subject to the Lord Jesus Christ and all the work of the Sataness in her life. We command that it come to an end in the name of the Lord Jesus. And we pray right now for the love of Christ to come to where she is right now and to overshadow her life. And I place the blood of Christ on Sally right now. I mean on on Rebecca I place the blood of Christ on Rebecca right now

I place the blood of Christ on Rebecca you are bound by the authority in Jesus you are bound in Jesus name you are bound I rebuke you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ you are bound and Rebecca is being you Rebecca is being loosed by the power of Jesus Christ. What's happening?

Don't worry, Rebecca. God is in control. Don't you worry. Who are you? Who are you? The keeper? The keeper? A guardian.

You are not the guardian. No, I am. You are subject to Jesus Christ. You are subject to Jesus Christ. No. Keeper and guardian, I bind you in Jesus' name. Keeper and guardian, I bind you in the name of God. Jesus. Keeper and guardian. Keeper and guardian, you are bound in the name of Jesus Christ. Keeper.

You who call yourself keeper is Jesus Christ Lord. You cannot have this girl. Do you hear me? You cannot have her. She is not yours. To whom does she belong? Right now. She will not continue to belong to him. We'll do everything. You can't terminate her. What? Now, you just, you just relax for a minute, okay? Now, you stations down the line, I'm going to, I'm going to suspend my closing. I'm going to suspend the last couple of commercial breaks, and I'm going to stay right with her. Now, Rebecca?

Yeah. You just relax for a minute. Yes. You who call yourself the Keeper speak to me. In the name of Christ, you speak to me. What? You let her go. You will let her go.

Why? I let her go. He belongs to me. Not forever. I was sent here. Jesus Christ came here to die for her. She has not yet made that choice. She will make that choice, and you know very well it's a miracle that she called.

It's a miracle she called today, isn't it? Isn't it? Isn't it? Someone out there was praying for her. Well, that's your problem. Now, you listen to me. You must be subject to the authority of Jesus Christ. How many more of there are you?

How many more of you are there? How many keepers? How many more of your kind? There are many. How many? Tell me in the name of Jesus Christ. How many? I'm here for generations.

Will the hold is being broken? No. Yes. No. Yes, and you know very well it is being broken. God did not have her call me by an accident, and God would not have thousands of people praying right now. And you know very well that your hold is being broken now.

No, you will not have her on your hallows Eve. You will not have... No, she will not be yours forever. She will belong to Jesus. Who's David? The David we were talking to a moment ago? Keep her? Is Satan defeated?

Did Jesus Christ rise from the dead? Then you are defeated too. And your hour has come to an end. I have a right to be here. What is the right? Get your God. Keep her, by the authority in Jesus' name, I bind you to hold your tongue silent right now. Yes.

I bind you to submerge and hold your tongue silent. Rebecca? Rebecca? What? I want you to, do you want love in your life? I'm scared of it. Do you want it? Yes.

Do you want God? I don't know who he is. Do you want him? Do you want him if he is love? Then say, say, I, Rebecca. Keep her. out of the way in Jesus name. Rebecca? Rebecca, Keeper, get out of the way. I command you to stay out of the way. Rebecca? Say, I, Rebecca. I, Rebecca. Want love. I want love. I want God. Stay out of the way,

Keeper. Stay out of the way, say, I want, I want out. Say, I put my trust. I put my trust. In God. In God. In God. Stay out of the way, keeper. God. and Jesus Christ. Say and. Jesus. Say Jesus. Keeper, stay out of the way. Say out of the way, keeper.

Jesus. Christ. Keeper, keeper, you are bound. You stay right there, and I'm going to come back to you in a minute. I have to go away. I just ask all of you to be very, very much in prayer. Support this ministry. Stand by us.

And support us in prayer now. Now, let me tell you, what's going on right now. At this moment, Rebecca's mother is sitting in the car in a trance. Now, it just may be that that's something that God did to get her mother out of the way so I could talk with Rebecca. I don't know what's going on. I'm speculating. Rebecca is not at the phone right now. Rebecca is going to come back to the phone at any minute. In the meantime, I want every, and I may have to interrupt this, but I want every demon in hell to listen. I don't want to hear any more that you have to say. Do you hear me? Catherine? Please leave us alone

No I will not leave you alone Catherine under no circumstances While I leave you alone Not when you are going to murder your daughter And I will not leave you alone Because I want you to have God's love in your life I want you to know the promise And the hope which...

You listen to me, it's too late for me It is not too late That's a lie, that's a lie of Bathamette That's a lie of Lucifer It is not If it's too late, why am I talking to you now? I have no idea I can't get rid of you

You can't get rid of me You aren't going to get rid of me because I won't let you go, because God won't let you go. How would I know about Arboros and Marduk? Listen. In Florida. No right. How would I know?

You can speak those names. Listen, those are the names of demons which Jesus Christ has trod under his feet. Which Jesus Christ is defeated at the cross. I will speak them. Leave us out of your little fairy tale land will not have any part of it. You understand me? Who's living in the fairy tale? You've got a black book with names of ancient spirits and relatives that have passed a curse.

That's reality. It's not, is killing your daughter on October 31st a reality? It is reality. It's murder. We must get rid of this evil. What evil? You're the one that's going to commit murder. You're the one that's going to kill your daughter.

I will join her. Are you going to kill yourself? Are you? In Jesus' name, who's interfering? Who is it? Who is it? Come to attention. Who are you?

Rivenski. Well, Rivenski. I thought you couldn't speak English. Ravinsky. I thought you couldn't speak English. Ravinsky. Are you Ravinsky? God.

Can you speak English? Listen, I don't want any part of this. You are nothing. Catherine, who's going to kill you at Halloween? No one. Are you going to take your own life? That's none of your business. Are you planning to sacrifice yourself?

This is none of your business. It is God's business. Why would I be talking to you? This is a merry. Catherine. You are a fool. How would I know all of this? Why would I be talking to you if I were a fool? If I were full, how would I know all of this? I have no idea, but you leave us alone. I know about Ravinsky. You know what... Leave us alone. I'm begging you. In Christ's name, we break the curse of Ravinsky.

What? Ravinsky? Can you speak English? Are you there, Revinsky? Rivinsky, the blood of Christ be on your curse. The blood of Christ be on your curse. The blood of Christ be on your curse. The blood of Christ be on your curse. You cannot have Catherine's life on Halloween. You cannot have it.

You cannot have it. And you cannot have the life of Rebecca. Rebecca confessed Christ yesterday. You heard her. Did you not? Confess it. Did you hear her? Answer me, Ravinsky.

Answer me. Catherine. Catherine. Leave us alone. Catherine, please. For God so loved the world. He sent his son Jesus Christ to die for you, Catherine. You need to hear what you have to say.

You need to hear. If it were, I will not leave your daughter alone. I will not let you kill your daughter and I will not let you kill yourself in the name of these spirits. Jesus Christ, I know how many spirits Rebecca has. She has 342 of them. We have a long trip ahead of us and I don't intend to spend it on this television. No, you cannot go anywhere. You cannot go anywhere.

In the name of Christ, we command you be restrained. Ground Zero. I had a discussion with my board op Dave King who's in the other room in Massive Control You know, that whole situation with Michelle in Alabama reminds me of What was it? How many years ago was that?

You were the one that brought it to my attention. Weren't you producing this show at the time? Not our show, but the show that some guy named Michael called What was the name of that show? I was here with you. I was here with you. I produced the one with the show. It's on Sunday night over at, I'm going to say the station's call letters.

Yeah, KPDQ. Yes, KPDQ. Hearts of Love, Tom and Debbie Tillman. They have a Sunday night, late night show over there for the last 25 years or so. And I worked there. I had them on the air. But you had them on the show. I had them in studio after this happened.

But you were the one that turned me on to what happened. Tell the story about what happened. Well, I don't know much about the story, except this guy, I forgot the guy's name. Was it Michael? Michael. He was on the air with him saying that he heard like you had with Michelle tonight hearing voices. and then something came out. It was coming out of him, though.

It was coming out of him. It wasn't something, though, over the phone line. It was actually coming from him. Yeah. A demon like, right, right. It was inside of him. Yeah. Yeah.

And they started praying for him. Yeah. What the hell is this? In fact, it got a lot of news, apparently. A lot of people, you know, were like, you know, they were, I think they did a news story on it. And that's why I brought him on the air. I want to play that. And many people are familiar with the show.

I've heard this before. Oh, you still have it. You still have it. You gave it to me. Yeah. You sent it to me. So you've got to listen to this. And I thought it was the most, you know, it was a terrifying, chilling thing to hear this guy.

Michael just sounds so innocent. And yet you can hear this demon in the background like growling or something. I don't know what it is. So we're going to play that right now. Thanks to Dave King for bringing me this. This was a few years ago. And we also had the hosts of this show on their Christian group. Listen to this.

This is Michael on the radio show. And you get to hear in the background some demon that's been pestering. And listen to this. Michael, are you, do you have a doctor who is prescribing different medications to help you in certain areas? I sure do. I have a good doctor and I do have a good counselor. Now, do you resist taking those medications sometimes? No, I just, you know, I have a doctor that's actually taking me off all the medicines. Is that right?

Yeah, I've been on a lot of them and stuff And you know a long time ago I was saved and I kind of fell into Hinduism And I'm interested and stuff And you know, I'm just experiencing like the Lord kind of casted me away And he doesn't do that To his truly born-again children He says, I will never leave you or forsake you or cast you away So it's important to understand

understand that if you... Yeah. Jesus' name, say that again. I just would like to rededicate today. Michael, how much time do you spend reading the word? I listen to the word, you know, on a little MP3 player. I usually listen to one book when I do listen to it like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. Do you listen to other parts of the Bible?

I try to, but I'm on Luke right now. Okay. Well, I... Michael, I'd like to... First minute, I'd like to have you not speak, and I'd like to have that spirit speak again. In Jesus' name, can you say Jesus Christ is Lord?

Jesus Christ is Lord. But I feel, you know, like sometimes a bad spirit, you know? I mean, I've had deliberate... Yeah, just a minute ago, I heard... something that wasn't your voice, Michael. What was that? I don't know. Are you sure?

Does a voice come out of you sometimes? It's not your own? Around me, but not, you know, I don't know. Are you sure? Yeah. Okay. All right. I just would like to rededicate to Jesus today, honest,

because he can deal with anything. Yes, he can. Are you there? I'm there. Is there somebody else there? Is there anyone else there, Michael? No, but I feel a pressure around, you know, my head. Yeah, and there's a spirit speaking. I'm not sure how to make this happen over the phone, though.

Why don't you put Michael on hold and go talk with him? So he put Michael on hold, went in, talked with him, tried to assess what was going on. And then they came back and this is what happened. All right. Spirit in Jesus' name. What's your name? Spirit in Jesus' name. Who are you?

I command you in Jesus' name to speak. What is your name? Speak in Jesus' name. I command you in Jesus' name to speak who are you? What is your name? In Jesus' name. How long you've been controlling, Michael? She.

Be quiet, Michael. Yeah. Shiba, speak in Jesus' name. Be quiet, Michael. In Jesus' name. Be quiet, Michael. Speaking to reveal yourself. In the name of Jesus Christ.

How many are you? Who are you? Liar, in Jesus' name. Who are you? Okay, I'll go talk to him off there again. Go talk to him again. I want you to know. Yeah.

Not you, Michael. Be quiet, Michael. That this spirit spoke in a completely different voice. Saying his name was Shiva. He had controlled Michael a long time. And they are Legion inside. Is that what you said, Shiva? So that is what happens when a minister loses control of his radio show

because a demon takes over a little man named Michael who wants to find Jesus again. And apparently when he went off the air, he talked to Michael on the phone and said, talked to him. And the demon, I guess, said that the demon's name was Shiva. And then he came back and you keep hearing that in the background, wondering what it is. It's really a scary, it's a scary call. But much like what we had tonight with Michelle.

Anyway, let's go to Gladys. Hi, Gladys, Young Ground Zero. All right. Well, that was some of the clips that I wanted to play for you guys. The second set of clips that I played was actually from a show called Ground Zero with Clyde Lewis. And he played that clip and I thought it was perfect for this show. So I wanted to make sure that we played it on today's show. Now, I want to let you guys also know that I referenced in the intro that we're going to be doing that Christmas Eve episode

with other podcasters coming on to read scary Christmas stories in between Christmas songs. The list of podcasters that we have coming on is Diane's student from history goes bump. Jerry Polly from Hillbilly Horror Stories, Astonishing Legends, Timothy Renner from Strange Familiers, Wes Gher from Sasquatch Chronicles, and the one and only, Dark Waters.

So I'm very excited about having those guys come on to the Christmas Eve show. It's going to be awesome. So definitely check it out, Christmas Eve, 2018. Now, let's get into this week's episode because we have Justin coming on and Justin shares a lot of demonic things

that he's experienced throughout his life that led to some very deep conversation that I hope you guys enjoy. So let's get to it. All right, tonight I have a great guest coming on. I have Justin. And Justin, a little side note with Justin is that Justin was actually on Sasquatch Chronicles. Shout out to that podcast. But Justin was on there and he shared an encounter story that him and his friends had had up in the Poconos of Northeast Pennsylvania. So that was a show that really stuck out to me. And every time somebody would talk to me about Bigfoot inside Pennsylvania, who maybe weren't believers or they'd be, you know, pulling my leg or whatever, I would always

reference the episode that Justin was on. It was episode 248, I believe it was. And it was just a great episode. It was a great listen. And what happened was one of Justin's friends contacted me shortly after I started the show and he said, hey, listen, my friend was on Sasquatch Chronicles and he shared our Bigfoot encounter. And I have a slightly little bit of a different take on it because I, you know, viewed it from a different vantage point. I was wondering if you'd be interested in hearing my encounter with my friend. And I said, absolutely. I asked what show it was. And I was like, holy crap, I reference that show all the time because it's local to me. And it turns out Justin and his friend went to Eastern University, which is like right down the road. I mean, I deliver there with my job and, you know,

basketball stuff. I mean, it's just, it's such a small world. It's a long introduction. But Justin, how you doing, man? I'm doing good, man. And go Nova. Because Nova, is like right down the road too. I can't wait. I've had, I had them pegged March Madness the whole way. Like from start, I'm like, they're going to win the whole thing. Yeah, I'm a huge Nova fan. If anybody, you know, out there listening, Villanova is in Philadelphia and, you know, back-to-back champs. You know, they're playing, they're actually starting right now, but I'm calling it. They're going to win the game. So, yeah. Sorry, Michigan. Yeah, absolutely. We're going to be eating our words like 20 minutes after this game is done. But anyway, who cares? But thank you so much. I'm excited to be.

year. Yeah, absolutely, man. And this has been a long time planned. I mean, you and I start talking when I did the show with your friend, Mike, and, you know, just takes a while to get you on the show, I guess sometimes. But you're here now. And, you know, you have a lot of different encounters that you'd like to share with us that happen throughout your entire life. And they're all more like, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but they're more spiritual, demonic kind of things that you've experienced to some degree. But the first thing that happened, you were a kid, in Germany. So what were you doing in Germany? Were you a military child or what? Yeah, so I was born in Germany. My parents were both contracted by the military. My mom was a

school teacher. She taught all over the world. And my dad was in school psychology and I think did something else as well. And they traveled around. They both met when they were both stationed in Germany, got married, had me and my brother. And I was born in Bremerhaven, Germany up north. And then we also lived in Brock Krozenok and Solzheim. And I had spent my... part of my childhood there through kindergarten until we moved to the states. So it was fun. It was a cool, it was a cool experience, good memories for sure. I've never lived outside the country and I've only ever traveled outside the country once and that was just a Niagara Falls. So I'm pretty sheltered. So let's just start off right there. I mean, you're a kid in Germany.

What kind of thing did you experience there? So when I was a kid growing up, probably like was younger, real young. I remember still, I think being in I wasn't old enough to get out of the crib, but also I was weirdly obsessed with all my stuffed animals, and I lived in this really amazing giant basket surrounded by stuffed animals and stuff as a kid. And I would go to bed. My mom would turn off the lights and stuff. And at some point during the night, I'd be woken up by something clamping onto my arm, my right arm. and I'd look over and it was a bright, fiery red,

almost like molten lava coming out on the thing, like alligator-like thing. It had spikes going down the back. It's very much, like, as a kid, I grew up on National Geographic from day one, and I knew what a crocodile alligator looked like like even as a little one. But it looks a lot like that, just smaller.

And it was in my crib-like bed, large crib bed. and it was holding my arm. It had itself attached to my arm. I didn't feel any pain, but I couldn't move it. It was weird. I was in a very much a state of shock. And there was a second one. And then I'd look up and there'd be a second one, kind of walking back and forth, you know, between by my feet of the bed, by the foot of the bed. And I'd try to get away and it would look at me and fiery red eyes, the whole thing, just everything, just very, very fire, very, very evil. And it would, crouched down as if it was about to jump, and then it would jump. And you'd hear this massive roar come out of its mouth, and I would scream, bloody murder, and all of it would just disappear in a cloud of just red haze, and then nothing.

And it would just be darkness, and I'd be screaming and screaming and screaming. The next thing I'd remember the light would come on, and my mom and dad would come racing into the room, and I'd be crying, and they'd comfort me and make sure everything's okay, and sing me a song, and I'd go back to bed. And I think that happened probably two or three times as a child in that same place. And then it stopped and nothing else. And never again did anything like that happen as a kid. And then we moved to the States.

And I grew up in Maryland. I grew up out in Columbia after that until I was 18. Well, before we move on here, I want to ask you, all right. So how old were you when this happened? I was probably two, two maybe three. Okay. So you're two years old and this is happening to you. And I'm trying to picture what you just described because it sounds terrifying. And so you feel, I guess, like a hand clamping onto your arm. And it was the mouth. Oh, so it was the mouth. So it was like an alligator type entity. And then its mouth is clamping down onto your arm. Correct. Yeah, yeah. So I'd wake up to this kind of like vice grip sensation on my arm, and I'd look over it and it would have my arm and I couldn't move it. I couldn't get my hand out of it.

And then I would look up and I'd see a second one of these things, you know, criss-crossing back and forth over my feet and then would crouch down. Same thing every time I'd crouch down as if it's about to jump and eat my face or something like that. And then I would scream and poof, like it would never happen. Just disappoint. here in this kind of like fade fade red almost like it just evaporates how big was this thing i mean are we are we talking like five feet long or we talking like you know a foot long probably about the same length as me as a child so like so like probably the size of a toddler maybe a little bit bigger um they were able to fit in my bed like it contort their bodies and being able to fit right there in the bed with me um so no no bigger than than my size that's fascinating i mean terrifying

for a child to go through. I mean, I often hear people tell stories of when they're little kids. And my wife will remember things from when she's a little girl. And, you know, it's like, how do you remember these details? And then I remember there are certain things that I do remember from when I was a little kid, just not scary stuff. You know what I mean? So it's just, it's fascinating that, you know, say you're just two years old and something like that leaves an impression on you that here you are as an adult and you still remember. it and it just makes you wonder if that was like a precursor for a lot of things that happened in your life. Yeah, I do, I do think, you know, from a young age, that's just how I think the

enemy operates in that way in different capacities, whether it's something that has to do with, you know, where you're living or who you're with or what is carried over. I think there's definitely some things that tie in with that. And you said it was red? Yes. They were, they were imagine like the, you know how like lava, this comes like right out and how like that molten red ember color very that. It's and it just glowed. Like it just had that that glowed. And it was the entire body. There was no other, no other colors, no other anything just but the distinct you know how that worked. And then their eyes same exact way. You know, one thing that I'm thinking of right now and I can't remember the episode and I'm probably not going to remember the details,

but the guy who is on the show, if he hears this, he's going to know it's him. I had somebody come on my show and tell me that I think they were experiencing some kind of sleep paralysis. And they had some type of demonic dragon-looking entity come down and it was like in their face. Like, I can't remember all the details for the life of me. But the way he described it in my mind, I can't remember if he said it was red. But in my mind, I pictured this like red-like dragon entity. that was haunting this guy. He's paralyzed on his bed or his couch,

and he's down right in his face. I wonder if that's something similar to what you saw. Yeah, it definitely could be possible. I think a lot of times people experience very similar things just in their minds' eye of what they see it as. For me, how I equated it to, because I watched National Geographic and stuff, from a very young age wanting to be a zoologist,

like crocodiles, alligators, those things I saw, and I think that's what my mind definitely correlated to. You get the plated back. They had the plated back. They had the forearms, the tail. It had that same scaling thing. But like I said, dragons were viewed in the old days. Crocodiles were viewed as dragon. That's really, I mean, like I said, that's something that no little child should have to experience, you know, and it's clearly stuck with you for a long time. So, you know, let's move on here. I know you were talking about. some things that happened when you were in middle school. So what was going on there? So growing up, same way, like fascinated with animals, but also got my fascination with cryptids

and UFOs and paranormal and having all these questions and wanting to explore and know and have answers, just like the normal kid. And in middle school, into high school, you know, that Ghost Hunter's show on sci-fi came on with the guys from Taps and my dad, my brother and I would all, like, gather around, I think it was like Wednesday nights or Thursday nights. I can't remember which episode. And we would watch. We'd watch them and be fascinated by like what they'd catch on video or catch on audio or like the different things. And you're like, whoa, it's crazy. I wonder like if this is like real or this can happen to us. And so, you know, that fascination carries over with your friends in middle school and high school. And, uh, you go out to different places.

You look up places, haunted houses or asylums or anything you can kind of look for where like you think something might be lurking out in old Ellicott City. There's pathways and train tracks and we would go out past there and there's some old warehouses and buildings. And I think they might have been old asylums from back in the day with old Ellicott City. Like Maryland has a lot of history from those places. And we would go and check some of those places out. We'd go explore in and look to get scared, they bring girls there, and you think it's a crazy thing where you can be the brave, the brave guy with them. And a couple of times we went in, and the one very vivid one I remember is we were, it was me and two of my friends, a guy and a girl, and we were going down one of

these long, dark hallways. And we turned off onto the end of one of them. And we, the big steel door, like heavy, heavy steel door. And it took myself and my friend, both of us to pull it off and get it to open so we could go down and it went down to like another story kind of like basement cellar sort of type of place we had our flashlights and we were heading down into the room and you could and this was a summer night I mean it was probably probably still like 65 degrees and it was like at one or two o'clock at night it was damp but you could but you can still feel it but you went down you could see you could see your breath in the flashlights and stuff. The cold, like, instantly, you could feel like just a very

change in the temperature, and you can equate that to going down below, and it might have been sealed, and it stays cooler in certain areas, but, like, you could get that chill. And then as soon as, you know, we felt that before I could even say something to my buddy about, like, you know, this feels weird. The steel door behind us that we took two of us to close slams behind us, like scares us literally half to death. The one girl, We had, like, screamed and was like, I want to go. We're trying to open the door and the door won't open. And so we're like, well, I guess we got to go down this thing and try to see if we can find

in our way through the hallway. And we did. And there was writings on the wall. You could see, like, you know, graffiti, but also there was, like, you know, pentagram stuff. There was some weird crap that we've found in some of those places, too. But it was that definitely was like one of those things. We're like, all right, we need to take a break. This is getting a little too real. We need to take a break.

Yeah. That's the thing with that. I mean, it's almost like something closed the door behind you and was forcing you in a direction. And that's just that alone is freaky to think about. But what's the history of this property? Is it known for its hauntings? The property that we went to, no. I think like, I think there was. I think you could look it up and they'd probably say, yeah, there's like hauntings there and stuff. Like, but we. It was one of those places that was convenient to us because we were close by it. Living in Columbia, we could take down to Old Elkid City, take some back roads and hang out. And then we take the train tracks over and into some of the abandoned warehouses and old cemeteries and be able to hang out and be kids, be dumb middle school, high school kids and get those experiences. And if something was to happen, something was to happen. And if nothing happened, it still was a great night hanging out with guys and gals. Yeah, you know, sometimes when you go out looking for something, you don't find it, it finds you.

Yeah, you think I'd learn my lesson by now, but clearly not. I mean, that's exactly it. I mean, you know, I always tell people I'm not into ghost hunting. I don't, that just isn't my thing, you know, and just the same thing with like scary movies. Just it's not my thing. I don't really, I don't know. It's just not my thing. but I know people go out looking for stuff.

And sometimes I wonder, because they have these experiences, and I always wonder, well, did you find something? Or did something find you? Because you went out looking, so they came to you. You know, it's just one of those things where it just makes you wonder, you know, what actually how, and what, you know, what came first, the chicken or the egg, you know what I mean? Yeah, totally.

I agree 100%. And in the wake of all that, still, like, going into high school, I, this kind of also, like, pertains with, you know, my testimony that I give with people in, that transition of really also, you know, coming to the Lord too. I grew up in the church and went through my whole life, but didn't always, you know, understand it and didn't always fully comprehend it, you know, had my, you know, issues and things that, you know, I had rebellious teenager and things that I was struggling with and going through. And with that, you know, going into high

school really, you know, went down a pretty pretty dark road and continued in that direction. And it was at this point that I had a really profound encounter with a retreat I went on that, you know, my youth group had taken me to. And I was, you know, I heard a testimony of a young girl who shared her story of her experiences and her life and that, you know, they were the same as mine and my broken family and the things that I was going through and the things that I was taking on. and was really a profound moment for me in my faith and saying like, okay, like, you know, Jesus, you're more than just like something that I've heard in stories. You're something more than I've read in this book. Like there's something way more to this. And in that same wake,

also understanding like what I was going through and what I was doing and experiencing that was also like I felt unredeemable, if that makes sense. And if I could do anything I would it for other people, but I was a lost cause. And so in doing so, I just kept on going deeper and deeper into depression and drugs and alcohol and exploring other things as well. And at the same time, still trying to like, you know, do my best for God and do my best for Jesus who had died for me and loved me, but I couldn't fully understand it. And that it wasn't until I think it was, no, going in a junior year, I'll never forget

junior year high school math class second period um third floor because the school i was at it has three floors and all of a sudden was sitting in my class and it was like almost like getting hit um by a ton of bricks head hit the head hit the table um put my head down was feeling sick every the whole room uh just disappear into blackness i and then in that darkness all i heard were these whispers, these dark, dark whispers. And how I can describe these whispers is jumping forward a a little bit so I can explain it. There's a movie that came out a little while ago, probably like, I think 2011 or something like that. It was called, Don't Be Afraid of the Dark. And it's a horror movie about a little girl and her family that moves into a mansion. And it's like a take on

tooth fairies, but they're like the dark Nordic version, like almost like gremlins that take you and you disappear and you're not coming back and it's a lot darker than that. But when they would talk to the little girl and they'd talk to the people, they would whisper. And it wasn't, and I had never heard those voices again since that time in high school. And it literally shook me to the core. My friends had to literally take me out of the movie theater because I was shaking and crying and having this flashback of like, these are the voices that I heard that time at high school. So jumping back to that time in high school when it's happening, The room is black, and all I'm hearing are these voices saying, you're no good.

God doesn't love you. You know, how you can never amount to anything. There's nothing in this world that you could do that's going to save you. Kill yourself. You're not loved. You're not good enough. It was from every direction. And at the same time, then all of a sudden, this kind of like light slashes, and there's me, it's my face, but it's not me.

It's scarred. it's battered, it's intense. It very much actually, I looked kind of like the Joker from Heath Ledger because Dark Night was out at the time too and it was like this very deformed, horrible smile and I was staring at myself,

but a very like, I would definitely call it a demonic look. And I was, you know, and it was the sounds were getting, the whispers were just, it was almost like they were whispers, but they were like as loud as thunder in my ears. I remember then a hand

touching my shoulder literally ripping me out from the blackness. And the next thing I remember is then my teacher, his hand is on my shoulder. The whole class is staring at me. How one of my friends described it was I was white as a ghost, beads some sweat down my face. They thought I had looked like I was going to vomit.

And so the teacher asked if I was okay. And I was like, no, I think I'm going to be sick. And they said, okay, take your stuff and go to the nurse's station. And so I got up immediately and left the class. And instead of going to the nursing station, I went to a counselor. And I was like, I need help because I was like, I, this is, you know, I don't want to die. But I'm scared for my life. And that's really the first, and, you know, talked to a counselor.

And it was the first time I had talked to my pastor, actually, because he came and got me out of school and I'd shared with him what I experienced. I was like, what the heck just happened? And he's like, that was a spiritual attack. I was like, what's that? What do you mean? Like spiritual tech. Like this kind of stuff is real. And he's like, he's like, oh yeah.

Like there's a war going on for you. And that it was very much for me the first time I kind of had an understanding for it. And at the same time, just to give a happier side to this and also part of my testimony. But it's just a really profound moment of I was hospitalized for psychiatric evaluation of pieces because I was very much. in a dark place and very much depressed. And I had to go in an ambulance. It's just protocol. They have to do it when I'm going to a place.

And I remember sitting in that hospital, or sorry, I remember sitting in the ambulance crying and saying, like, God, I need to know you're with me. I need to know you're real. I need to know you're here with me right now. And I remember this warm embrace. I thought like my, I thought like someone next to me, I thought like the paramedic or my you passed or somebody next to me was hugging me but there was no one there was no one there was no one there was literally being held physically around like tight like from both the inside and and the outside and

it was that comfort and that and it changed me profoundly in in that way and i've never been the same in that in that sense of knowing you know i have a father that that loves me and cares for me and protects me too you know it's it's really fascinating to hear different people's stories when it comes to what got them on a spiritual level like that. Like, you know, I have my own personal stories, uh, you know, of when I felt like I was singled out by God and I felt like, um, he cared about me, you know? And to hear you share that. It's just for me, it takes me right back to what my own personal experience, you know, and how I felt. And it's really, it's really cool to hear just to hear that. And then on top of it, you know, you had this experience and you're in school,

you're in class, I think you said. And so, uh, was it like all of a sudden just out of nowhere? Like it just hit you like a ton of bricks. Like, like I think you said it. It felt like a ton of bricks just landed on you. And did it feel like you were just like knocked out? Is that how you felt? Yeah. Yeah. Like literally I was just staring at the math problem on the board and then it was like, bam. Like, I just had this like intense weight and just exhaustion, like, like instant fatigue and just put my head down. And then that same and then in that same moment of putting my head down and closing my eyes, you know, that blackness like just instantly came over. The whole it just came over in that same way. It was really intense, very, very intense.

So you go into this blackness and you start hearing these witts. whispers and these voices, you know, saying awful things to you. At what point, if at any point, did you, in the midst of that, realize that you were underneath spiritual attack? Was that something, I know you didn't identify it like that until your pastor told you about, but did you at any point think in those moments that there's something dark and sinister going on here? I'm not dreaming this.

Oh, absolutely. I think that was like my first, especially, especially when I saw the face of like myself, but not myself. Like it's, it's a really hard thing to try to explain. Like it still is really hard to explain. Seeing, seeing your own face, but so, you know, crooked and disfigured and a smile that I can never, I could never make. Like it's in the twistings of that that I was like, this is, this is evil. And I don't know how to get out of it. Like, I was, like, stuck. And it wasn't until that hand, like, you know, that pulled me right out of it with the shoulder, whether it's you want to call it God, you want to call it my teacher, like that, of, you know, jumping back into the reality around.

So, I mean, obviously, it's a dark moment and you're going through a serious attack, a serious spiritual attack. At any point since this or even maybe during it, probably not during it, but looking back at it, you know, you identify it as a spiritual attack and that, you know, there's a war going on for you in a spiritual realm. And do you ever look back at that and say, yes, that was a spiritual attack, but God used it as a teaching lesson? Because, I mean, essentially right after that, you're in an ambulance and you feel God embracing you. And that's a turning point in your life. So, I mean, do you ever think that maybe God was using it, even though?

though, you know, it was awful what you, what you experienced and you scared you and everything, that even though it happened, God used that bad thing to, you know, show you how much he cares about you. But I don't know. What are your thoughts in that? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I think that's some of the, the questions I'd love to tend to ask him someday. But I think, I think in that moment is I look at it as very much the breaking point of, I can't do this on my own. There's nothing that I can do that's on my own that's going to work, that's going to help. And I was just letting the flood gates in because I wasn't allowing anybody, anybody, anything or anyone to help me. And I think that those walls were very much down and very much open and available to be hit.

I definitely agree God uses that. I think it uses it for my testimony and when I share it with other people. I think I use it as something when people argue that there's no spiritual warfare. There's no evil spirits or darkness. There's no darkness. And I'm like, I disagree.

Let me share some things that I've gone through and you can tell me afterwards whether that kind of stuff is real or not. But I do, I do think, like, it's even crazier because I think those revelations come along. As you were saying those things, I was like, oh, wow, that is like, I never put those two together in terms of, like, how correlating, like, darkness and that embrace and that intensity to love and embrace and comfort and how within 24 hours I had both in, you know, in that way.

And it is. And all the times I've shared, that is a really crazy correlation and how awesome God can be in those moments. Yeah, and you know, like I want to, I guess my questioning to you earlier, it might have been a little foggy because I had an experience happening in my life. And I guess I'll just share it because I don't want to hijack the show here, but I'll share it. You know, I, and I'm not even sure if I share it on the show yet or not. But so I think I was probably in college, I think. And everybody knows I went to Bible college. But even though I was in Bible college, my heart wasn't right with God. Most of my life, I lived my quote-unquote Christian life more to please my parents. I was a Christian by association. I was a Christian on Sundays. The rest of the week, I lived my life like I was a hellhound, you know?

And so, you know, I was very, you know, there was two Tonys, and it depended on where you saw me is which Tony I was going to be. And that carried into college years, even though I always, always had this heart for people and I always wanted to be, I would have been a great guidance counselor, by the way, I'm just saying. But I, even though, you know, I had this heart for people and stuff, my heart with God wasn't right. And, you know, so I think I was in college and, you know, I'm living my life the way I want to live it, Christian on Sundays. And one of the biggest people that I was trying to, not impress, but make happy with me was my father. For whatever reason, I always wanted

my dad's approval on things, always. That carried into my marriage. I got married when I was 21, and in my early 20s, I was making marital decisions depending on what I thought my dad, you know, would like or not like, you know? And so there's a very, there's a stronghold that I had with trying to please my parents. And I had a dream one time, and like I said, I think I was in college where I was in my church, my home church, the one I grew up in, and I was walking down the stairs to go into the fellowship hall. And I went down through the doorway, and I go into the fellowship hall, and to my left side's little office. And they usually kept, you know, just office supplies in there and things like that. In front of me was a kitchen. And it was a kitchen. And it was

just your typical kitchen, like in a house or something, you know, normal stuff. And then to the right of me was just this big open fellowship hall. And this is the way it's actually set up. And in my dream, I'm seeing the church. And so I look to my right as I come down the stairs and I see my dad standing in the middle of this fellowship hall. And he's just staring at me. And I'm like, you know, dad, you know, I'm saying something to my dad. And he's just staring at me like he's a mannequin. Like he, like, there's no soul inside of him. Like, it was just like a shell of my dad just staring at me. No reactions, nothing. And I'm like, you know, I remember feeling confused and, and, and I felt like something was wrong, you know. And so he's just staring at me like,

like, like he's empty. Almost like, like, like, like, I'm empty. You know, like, like he just didn't recognize me. And, and, and at that moment, the office to my left, now, my dad's to my right. the fellowship hall right there. And to my left is that office. And that office grows black, grows dark. And all of a sudden in my dream, there's like this shift where now I'm standing in the fellowship hall. My dad's now further away from me, but he's still in the fellowship hall. It's like one of those weird dream things where things get warped and they get stretched and all that. And so I'm standing now in the middle of the fellowship hall and this room gets darker and darker and now the blackness, the darkness in the room is now coming out of the room. And within the

darkness, there's these like demonic arm slash hands coming out of the black cloud, like crawling across the floor at me. And not even just across the floor, but just out in the middle of the air and just they're all reaching towards me. And they're coming for me. And I didn't run. I don't know if I could run or what, but I remember they came, they grabbed me and started drag. dragging me into that office. And I'm screaming and I'm getting drug across the floor and I'm screaming for my dad to help me and he's not helping me. He's just staring at me and he's not doing anything. And I get drug into this office and then I wake up. And for the longest time, I felt like that was a demonic dream and I didn't know what it meant. And I,

I was convinced of that until maybe a couple years ago, I really felt like the meaning of that dream was revealed to me. Because since I had that dream, my life has been totally changed around. I'm very open and honest with people. I'm very public with who I am as a person. When I was 25, 26 years old, I pretty much almost threw my marriage away. I was a miserable person. People, I mean, I was just not a nice guy to be around. And long story short, I had an encounter with God for real, for real. Like, I was raised in the church, but I never had an encounter with God like I had on March 29, 2014. And it changed my life. And after that, you start seeing things differently. And after my life changed, I always remembered that. dream. And I don't remember very many dreams, but I always remember that dream. And I feel like the meaning behind that dream was revealed to me. And all of a sudden, it went from being a

demonic dream to a dream that was God's send. And I really feel like that dream was showing me where my life was going. I was going to, like, I'm in the church that I grew up in. And at that point in my life, I'm going to church every Sunday. I'm playing the game. I'm playing the church boy a game. You know, yes, you know, praise God and thank you Jesus and all this, that, and God bless you and all that stuff, you know, playing that game, but never truly meaning to have a life-changing experience in my own life. Like, I loved people, but I didn't have any desire to be a better person. I was just, you know, living that double life. And so I'm in this church in my dream, the church that I'm playing that, that, you know, game with. And in the fellowship,

Paul is my dad, the guy I'm always trying to gain approval of. And I was riding my parents' coattails with their salvation. My parents are Christians. And in my, like, I wouldn't ever say it to myself, but the way I was acting, I was literally figuring my, I'm a Christian by association. My parents are Christians. I'm a Christian. That's it, you know. And I really feel like that dream was God showing me, you're here in church, that man right there, as you're constantly trying to please, cannot save you from what's going to happen to you if you don't change your life. And I didn't change my life. And I thought it was just a demonic dream. And for years, I thought it was a demonic dream until my life changed around. And I really feel like God

revealed the meaning of that dream to me. And I just hijacked the last 15 minutes. But I wanted to share that with you because I just find it interesting that you had that experience. And then, you know, you said like 24 hours, within 24 hours, you had quite the opposite experience, you know. And I just, I wonder if there's a correlation there or not. I could be wrong. I might be reading into things. But it just reminded me of that dream that I had. And yeah, it's fascinating stuff, though. No, it's incredible, man. And I think, I think that's part of the journey. That's part of the walk as, like, as we grow older and as we as we read and as we study and as we talk like have community with one another and have community with other people with similar experiences and share I think more

of those things do get revealed more of those things do come out it's it it is it's amazing um that story is is awesome man that's that's beautiful testament of what um can be used and what can be shown in that way. But yeah, I totally agree. I think God can use some really, like God can take the worst of the worst and the baddest of the bad and still is still used it to glorify him and still use it for his good. All right. Well, let's take a second here and talk about our sponsor for today's show, Robin Hood.

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guys, go get yourself the Robin Hood app and try it. It's free. Robin Hood is giving listeners a free stock like Apple, Ford, or Sprint to help build your portfolio. Sign up at confessions.com. That's confessionals.com.com. Hello, this is Forrest and Scott from astonishing legends and when we're not hunting down ghosts, scripteds, and mysteries, we're listening to the confessionals with Tony Merkel. So let me ask you, coming back to your personal experience, you see your face and it's all mangled. Do you think that what you were looking at was a representation of your face purely an image? Or do you think maybe that was, I don't know, a demonic entity creating an image for you to see? Like, do you think that there was a

a demonic presence with you in those moments that were active? I think, I think, I think the first time I looked at it, I looked at it as, as a reflection, but the more, the more I think about the smile, more I think about like the different pieces, I do think in that way it was more of a demonic entity working its, working its way. And like I said, it had that, that same Joker mentality. That's why I try to explain that the widest smile past the scar is like something that you can't replicate or do. And that's how I saw it. And I definitely, that's what I view it as is very much a demonic thing.

Same thing with the whispers. Like the whispers were just, I think honestly, sometimes I think the whispers were worse than the face. Just the sound, the way they talked, how it was. It was as they continue at first. It was like one than the other. than like they're all around but the the whispers get louder and louder and louder and louder and still whispers but it feels like like as loud as thunder in your ears at that point because it's just in every direction and it really never hit me again until after that movie like when

that movie came on I was like oh my gosh this is exactly what I heard is these this whatever this is exactly what I heard and it it floored me it took me it took me out of the game for like a good a good 12 hours. I had to just like rest and pray and just be in a spot where I could get back to to where I was. So what do you think about that movie and the fact that it reminds you so much?

Like it was so similar to what you experienced with the voices. Do you think that that was a coincidence that those voices remind you of that? Or do you think that sometimes evil, real evil, real tangible evil sneaks into movies. And we look at it as fake.

Oh, that's just Hollywood. That's fake. But in reality, maybe it's not so fake. And I would agree. I don't think it's that fake. I actually did a whole project on horror movies in Hollywood. And especially specifically point to the more supernatural stuff and pieces. And if you look at, I would say, nine times out a 10, if not even more, when you look at horror movies in that way,

especially in the last, you know, 20, like 20 or so years, the good never wins. Evil always wins. Even when you think good has the upper hand, whether it's someone casting it out or you think you got away and you escaped, in the end, evil always gets it. Evil always gets his day. You can look at with paranormal activities.

You can look at that with the insidious movies. You can look at that with, put your name you know put your put your name in the hat whatever it is I think the only one that I saw a while back but were a good one and it was actually at the end of it was the conjuring and that was based on a true story

in that but most of the time when you look at Hollywood and the movies that put out in terms of horror good does not normally win out I was nine times out ten like good will not win out. Evil will win somehow. Even when you think like you're in the clear and everything's good, like boom, something will happen and it's back or it's killed the person. It's taking the life of the person. And that's just what you see. So I would I would say yes.

I lean that way too a lot of times. I mean, you know, I'm not shy about diving down the rabbit hole of conspiracies and things like that. And when I did the Mandalay Bay or the Vegas shooting show where the family was, you know, in the room underneath Stephen Paddock, one of the things that I talked about was how the DOD actually works with Hollywood so that Hollywood portrays the correct image of our military. They actually admitted that in a tweet. They proudly. And I was like, well, that's kind of shady, you know, but like, I just always wonder

if there's a more darker, sinister group of whatever working within Hollywood sometimes to put these real accurate depictions of evil into these movies. Like, sometimes you see stuff in these movies. And like I said, I don't really watch a whole lot of them, but I see the freaking commercials. And that's enough for me. And so, but sometimes you see the stuff in these movies, and you're like, that's, that's not fake. Like, that's actually, like, that's really. Like, that's really. stuff. And like, sometimes it's so real looking and it's so real because, like, you know the other side of things. It's like, what's going on here? Like, you don't just imagine some of this stuff up, you know? And so I always just wonder, like, you know, if there's something else going on in

Hollywood sometimes. And, you know, I had Zach King on. And I can't remember if he hit on it during the interview. He probably didn't. He has a lot more, a whole lot more information to talk about with Hollywood and a bunch of other stuff, we're actually going to bring him back on for a patron show. And, you know, so that's going to be fun because I'm sure he's going to kind of dive into some of that stuff. Yeah, and I think it also desensitizes us. Like, I know it desensitized me for a while. Like, I love a good monster movie.

Like, that's still, like, to this day, like, cryptos or not, like, that kind of stuff still, I enjoyed it. We always did. I'm in college, like Monster Movie Mondays. But it does. It desensitizes you after a while, like, when you watch some of those. And I think that that's part of it. It's like when you've watched it so many times, you get used to it, or you just don't think

it's real at all because there's no way. It's so out there. It's so ridiculous. There's no way anything that that is real or could happen. And then you talk to people who have said, I don't know, that that happens. That stuff is very much aware and alive and happening. Yeah. I mean, even just like the, you know, movies like the exorcists, like we know exorcisms are real.

We know demonic possessions are real. I mean, I'm sure there's people that are going to listen to the show that say, well, I don't really agree with that. And that's fine. You don't have to agree with everything that I say. But, you know, I believe that demonic possession does take place. And Hollywood does a great job of depicting these things, you know? And it just makes you wonder sometimes. Because I saw a girl once demonically possessed.

And the thing that stood out to me the most during that incident was this is, here's a high school girl. that's demonically possessed and she's moving men like men multiple men at one time and they're like she's like spazzing out like verbally and they they start like I was like I was probably a similar kind of thing with you and you were in high school I was at a youth convention and uh they started praying for this girl and she started like howling and like saying I don't know need your prayers and all that stuff like like like this crazy scary voice and it was weird because at some point uh there's men trying to pray for her and they laid hands on her and she's on the ground and they're like almost like it was almost like they're trying to hold her down I think

they knew what was going on I knew it was going on and I had my because I was a youth leader I had the kids because the kids were trying to pray for this girl and said no no no no you you don't touch get away. Like, you don't, like, if you're not ready to handle this, you don't play that game. And I let, you know, the adults handle their thing. But, like, there was probably about five guys. And it was like, they're almost like trying to hold this girl down. And there, she's moving them physically. And I was like, yeah, that's not normal, you know? So, you know, it's just, it's some crazy stuff that Hollywood depicts pretty accurately. And I know we kind of got off course here a little bit from your personal encounters, but we're just talking tonight and it's

fun. So, you know, that was one of your experiences. And I think you said it was in high school. Is that when it happened? Yeah, it happened in high school. And that's, and then like I said, going into senior year, it was a great year, really great year. And got some really awesome experiences and took some time off. And then boom, was in college at Eastern 2010. Okay. So you went to Eastern and you went to Eastern and you have a lot of the same. And you have a time off. had another experience your freshman year. I think this is kind of like the most current thing that's happened to you. Am I correct in saying that? Second current-ish. Yeah, second current issue. Okay, got you. Okay. Well, why don't you walk us into the second most current-ish experience

you've had? So this one, this one took place over Thanksgiving. Biaz. I was back home in Maryland with my family in my dad's house with everybody and we finished our meal and usually football and stuff portrays. But this time, I think our game was already on or we didn't want to watch it. So my older cousin, myself and my brother, went downstairs to the basement to watch some movies and they wanted to do some horror movies.

And I was entirely interested in it, but that's what everyone wanted to do. And I was like, well, maybe I'll just fall, I'll end up falling asleep on the couch and it won't really matter. So we did the conjuring first and terrifying. But it was like at the same time relieved because there was actually like a win at the end.

And they're like, yeah. But then we switched over and did an insidious in a man. I think I watched that whole movie between my eyes like these are. And by the time it was done, I just was like, I'd not feel good about it. I'd torn up inside with that movie. But I think it just also pertains to my own experiences and the things that those correlations happen. And that's where it goes. So everyone heads home.

I go to bed like normal at home. and probably three-ish in the morning. I just woke up and I look over, and I have a fan of my room in that room, and it's a really intense, annoying blue LED light that's on the top with a button in it. I always sleep towards the wall, so I don't have to look at the light.

But that blue light is always shining literally over my entire bed and everything. And I woke up and the whole room was dark. And I was like, when the fan's still going, but I wasn't feeling the fan and I wasn't seeing the blue light. So I like turned around, you know, from the wall to face out into my bedroom. And there is this giant dark shape over my bed.

It's blocking the light. It's blocking the fan. And I think I'm in a weird state. I'm like, I got to be like dreaming or something. And I kind of like, as I'm rolling back over, I don't know why, but I rolled back over, you know, my head against the wall. So right as I did that, all of a sudden I felt two hands immediately hit my back with great force and intensity. And my whole body starts seizing.

Like I literally, the hand, it's really holding me down. And I felt almost like my soft bed was almost feeling concrete, like how much I was being pushed against my chest. Like I was having trouble breathing. I was shaking. My whole body was shaking. It felt like everything was shaking. And I'm gasping for air as it's pushing down against my back.

And I'm desperately trying to utter the words, go away in Jesus' name. but I'm more of like go into it, go but the more and more I'm saying it, the more I can feel the pressure starting to relieve off my body until finally I'm able to say it in a full sentence

normally to the point I'm on and finally to yell and by the time I'm yelling it it's gone. I look around I can still like the figure, the dark figure and entity is gone I flip on my lights I like do a whole

prayer rock around my room, like, you know, sweating and couldn't really focus anymore. And I couldn't go back to sleep. So I ended up just, I think, I think I just opened a book and I was like reading for a little while and I got the computer for a little while until like it wasn't appropriate enough time in the morning where I could get out of bed and go downstairs and make breakfast and do stuff. And I never, I didn't tell anybody. I didn't say anything to anybody about it. It's a little bit different. at my dad's house in that way, like just in terms of, I eventually told my brother about it, and I told some friends

at college about it, including Mike, you know, when I got back to college and shared that experience. And then, yeah, so that was number one. That was the big one. It's still, you know,

shakes me up, honestly, to this day. It really, it gets under my skin and one that doesn't go away. That dark figures, has come back to play. That, I'm sure, was terrifying. And I can see in your face, it's hard for even to talk about it. Do you think that you almost attracted this by what you were watching earlier?

Is that kind of how you feel? Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just trying to throw it out there as an idea if that's what you feel like. No, I joked about it. Even after the movie was over, I think of my cousin asked, like, what do you think? And I was like, I think I just let evil into my house.

She was like, oh, no, just light some sage and just burn it around the room. And it was nothing that would work. And so, like, it was kind of like that joking piece. So I don't know, like, to be honest. Some people have shared with me about because I was doing some big time ministry stuff that was kind of moving forward in my life and into the college stuff as well. have said, well, maybe, like, you know, they were coming after you in a big way because some big things were going to be moving.

Who knows? And I don't really have an answer for it. I think there's a couple of different things that it could be. Yeah, absolutely. And by no means that I want to portray that by watching a scary movie, you can conjure up this kind of stuff. I'm not trying to say that. I was just trying to pick your brain a little bit as to what your thoughts were on

that. because you have this experience and it's a very physical experience. And that's something that not a lot of people go through. You know, like they see things. But even in these ghost shows, you look at these ghost shows, right? And you could watch a whole 24-hour marathon of, you know, ghost hunters. And only on like two or three episodes, you're going to actually see. see where somebody was scratched, you know? It's not a common thing. Like a lot of times you see it,

but to have that physical, very physical attack is not, you know, very common. So you're going through this where it's pretty much trying to suffocate you, push down you so you can't breathe. And, you know, you're trying to say go away in Jesus' name. How long did this take this whole process? Was this like just a few seconds or was this like minutes? I mean, I think it felt like eternity. I think it happened probably in probably a minute to two minutes of the absolute most in terms of like me waking up, noticing that there was a figure standing over my bed in the room. To me then turning around again to look back at the wall to then his hands coming on.

And I think that part, because at first I think it was shock and I'm like, trying to like, you know, fight or flight mode and then realizing instantly, I need to cast this. I think, and I contribute that very much to the spirit just saying, like, this is a fighting, this is a fight moment in that way. So I think it was probably like a minute, maybe two, but very, very short, very, very brief. How large are we talking here? I mean, is this, like you said it blocked out the light. Are we talking like a shadow, a shadow, a shadow, do we figure that filled the whole room? Are we talking like something? Because it touched you physically. Did you have the impression that this was a very physical mass that was blocking the

light in the room? And how large was this? Is this something, if you could see an outline, was it huge like a Sasquatch? Or was it, you know, more slender? What would you say? So the dark figure was probably like, you know, probably my height, like six foot, like a normal, like an average man size, maybe a little bit above it. It wasn't bulky. It was slender, but enough that it was blocking the blue light. So you almost got like the outline. So it was almost like physical in the terms of like you could see, you could see that the light was being blocked, but you could still see the light behind it being blocked off into the walls, if that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely makes sense. And that's kind of like what I was

envisioning too. And so if I remember correctly, you were facing the wall, curious that you couldn't feel the fan or see the light, rolled over, you see this entity or whatever you want to say it is. And did you roll back over towards the wall then? Is that what happened? Correct. Yeah, I rolled back over the wall. I don't know why I did it.

I just think it was this instinctual thing of like, okay, I'm either dreaming and I'm going to go back to sleep or. I don't know. I think it was just instinct to turn away from it, like just to instantly just turn my back on it. And that may have triggered it. It may have just like me turning my back on it and not giving it what it wants. I don't know. You know, I've had things happen that were just like oddities, a little creepy, but really can't say it was something paranormal or anything like that happening that it happened in the middle of like me being half asleep. like and my reaction to it in the middle of my sleeping state of mind is totally different than what I normally would react to if I was alert and ready like I mean like I'm like I'll just ignore like oh whatever and I'll go back to sleep you know like it's just like I don't have time for this

you know but I'm assuming that's not what you were like you were probably more scared when you saw this right yeah I think it was more of like really weird this is really creepy but I also don't know if like if this is a dream or if this is reality and it really wasn't until like the hands came right on my back that it was very much like a real a real thing it went from okay this isn't a dream this is this is really happening to me you know it's it's not uncommon what you say there either because uh i had a professor when if anybody's interested episode three lindsay comes on my wife comes on she shares all her ghostly experiences throughout her life and we ended with an experience that her and I went through together. And after that experience

that we had together, I actually went to a professor and I talked to him about these things because I was really concerned because I had a semi-ongoing haunting going on in my dorm. And I was concerned that I conjured something up or whatever. And I was talking about it. And he was telling me that he was telling me personal stories that he went through. anything from warlocks attacking a church that he was pastoring, which, you know, I'm not a stranger too. I've had my own share of these guys to, you know, spiritual, more spiritual attacks. And one of the, I remember distinctly, one of the things that he shared with me was he was in bed at night with his wife. And he heard footsteps walking up alongside the bed to his wife. He couldn't see anything.

And then he heard the footsteps walk around the bed, around the bottom of the bed, up to his side. And all of a sudden, he felt this immense pressure on his chest. And it was pushing down on his chest. And he couldn't breathe. And he couldn't breathe. And he could barely get out the name of Jesus. And he started condemning it in Jesus' name. And slowly it went away.

That's very similar to what you experienced, isn't it? It's the exact same thing. Exact same way. I felt a little bit more violent in terms of like because the shaking was also going on, it wasn't just like pressure, but it was also that vibrating. Like it's almost like taking like one of those like

like the vibrating back massagers for your back and like double or triple that, that intensity and put that on your back while being pushed down against your bed and stuff. But yeah, exact same way. Like pressure attack and then casting it out until it goes away. And the more and more, the stronger I got with my voice, the weaker and weaker it got. You know, and the way you described it, it sounds like this thing really had some initial force on you.

Like, to me, the way I'm picturing this is almost like when you're getting ready to get in a fight with somebody and you start shoving. and that one guy takes that one full frontal shove, and he just puts his palms out and he shoves them into your chest and you go flying backwards, that initial, you know, hardcore push. And that's the kind of push that I'm envisioning when you say you rolled over, all of a sudden you felt this bam on your back. And you actually said you physically started seizing. Is that, am I just, am I, you know, depicting this right? No, that's correct. And I, I'm a big metal head. I've been in many pits before. And I know what pushing and shoving is like. And all that intensity of pieces. Yeah, it was. It was like getting hit basically in the back,

like getting shoved in the back and then they're not stopping. Like it's just like a force. It's like, bam. And then it's holding you down. Did you have any physical side effects from this after this encounter? Like were there marks in your back? Were you sore? Did you have bruises? Frasured bones? I don't know. Nothing like that. No. I didn't have any sort of things. I strangely didn't check my back, honestly, after it was all done. I think I was pretty shaken up to the point I didn't sleep. I didn't sleep anymore. I definitely, for the next couple of nights, I put on like a video or something or music before I'd go to bed. And honestly, it's been something I've done most of the

time if I'm by myself and I'm going to bed in that same way. It's definitely gotten better and it's improved over the years in terms of my okayness. But dark is something that, you're has always been an issue for me and this is no different in that way. Yeah, absolutely. It's just that experience, I mean, I would be, I'd be very disturbed by it, you know, if I had to go through something like that. You know, I hear a lot of people's stories, obviously. And, you know, the things that people share with me, you know, I would say this, there's a lot of people out there that are very strong individuals. And it takes a very special person to go through some of the things that these people go through

and actually still stay sane after this experiences. You know, like, I don't know how I would hold up into some of the situations that people share with me. I've never had that kind of experience that you just shared. Not that I can remember. But, you know, it's just, man, that's some crazy stuff. And I know, I think you said that that experience kind of segues into another experience. Is that right?

Yeah, it does. There's, the figure has come up in one more, one time, this time at my mom's house. And this was literally on the road after I was out of college, recently married. and we were visiting down for one of the holidays at my mom's place in the basement. We were staying the night down there. Same thing. I woke up,

and this is a little bit different in terms of... This time I actually saw something come out of the figure. So this one, I woke up and kind of peered out into the dark, into kind of the black. And how my mom's basement works is it's the couch, bed pulls out. There's, and then out that way is like some, some chairs for,

you know, guests and stuff sitting. And then pass that as bookshelves and stuff. And then that leads to the bathroom and then these stairs that take you upstairs into like the main, the main area. There was something lurking behind one of the chairs right close to the bed. Not like over me this time. This time it was like more lurking.

Sorry, get more chills again. This time it was lurking behind the bed or behind, behind the chairs and I was looking at it and this time it stood up then from the chair and it was a dark figure and then out of nowhere just basically as like before I could say anything before I could sit up it the whole thing leaps the whole over the chair and straight at my it's straight at me at my body but this time out of the blackness, it's almost like watching the veil get pulled out from behind it. This is time I saw a face.

And with this face, it was, it was green, it was like a greenish, vomiting sort of color. It had fangs. All teeth, all, every tooth was, was like a sharpened point. Had a longer nose

than I would say than an average person has. bright yellow eyes and it had its hands were its fingernails were very very long almost like claws

I almost would attribute it to being almost looking like your stereotypical witch but with a little bit more of with fangs instead of teeth and with almost that area

and it once again just like when I was a child it, the vaporized right before it, right before it hit me. But in that same place, then you had this invisible pressure once again on my chest. This time, visible pressure on my chest, and I'm shaking uncontrollably. And I'm once again desperately trying to tell it to go away in Jesus' name, but in this, it's waking up my wife who's next to me, and she's looking at me.

And how she describes it is she thought I was like almost seizing as I'm desperately trying to call out in the name of Jesus to get this thing to go away. And once again, I'm strong, like, as my voice gets louder and stronger, the pressure gets less and less on my chest until it's gone. And then I'm kind of in a heap huddled, crying, and, and, and she's holding me and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, I told her about it. and we laid there for a little while until we both fell asleep into the next morning. And then that ties into the second time. This time we're back at our old apartment in Maine.

And this time, this was more, this was dream form. This was the one that I was saying in dream form. I was having a dream. It was my brother and I as kids in our old play room growing up. and there was a little girl there with us. And at first I thought it was one of my nieces. But I think looking at it and thinking about it more, it might have been my wife as an infant, as a child.

And as we're playing in the playroom, I look over in the window and I see that black figure. This time, once again, like black figure's faceless, but it's staring through the window. And once again, I get the chills down my back in a dream I'm calling to my brother to try to get out of there. And as soon as I say that, it comes through the

window and it attacks all of us. Like we're all and then we're all screaming. And the next piece is how I described it was she woke up to me shaking and moaning, go away in Jesus' name. But I was asleep, but she's trying to wake me up.

And then when she finally does, like I'm screaming you know in that same place go away in Jesus name go away and Jesus name go away and Jesus name and it was done and I was awake and crying and shaking up and we're we're sitting there we pray together and I tell her what what I saw and I texted my brother just to make sure he's okay I texted but just because at the time I thought I thought it might have been one of my nieces and so I texted you know the family and I said you know I'm thinking of her she okay It was just one of those things where I just felt like it was one of those attacks from my dreams.

But at the same time, it was almost like I felt warned to I need to make sure this wasn't, this wasn't going after anyone else in my family. And that's the last time anything like this has happened. This is the last time any of that has ever occurred. But yeah, very scary stuff. How long ago was this last encounter? I want to say it was October. of this year. Yeah. And then a lot of

you know, a lot of stuff has happened since then, but not in terms of the spiritual nature, but I don't want to go into that. Okay. Before the dream, the other encounter you had, how long ago was that one? That was probably

2015, maybe going to 2016. I want to say, no, I want to say that was that was the Christmas. Yeah, so Christmas of 2016. Yeah. And the experience where initially this mask, this black mass slammed against your back,

that was your freshman year of college? That was, yeah, freshman or sophomore year of college. So probably 2010, 2011. Yeah, 2010, 2011. Okay, and your high school experience was what, year. 2008. Okay.

I think you see what I'm trying to do here. I'm trying to map out of timeline. Okay. Well, I'm just, I'm just trying to picture it, you know, timeline-wise, how far apart these are. Let me ask you a question you may not want to answer. Do you think that this is done? Man, I hope so.

And I, and honestly, like, I, I say as to people, like, you can follow the Lord wholeheartedly and I am there and involved in pieces. I think even when guards are down or different things happen, I still think the enemy can attack us in different ways and try to throw us off balance. And I think this is one of those ways that he does it sometimes. And usually it's during, honestly, during big events, big life events, big things that are happening for good or for bad, where I'm in a state that's vulnerable. And I think that's really what it comes down to a lot of times. What year was your Sasquatch encounter? So that Sasquatch accounter was junior year.

So that would have been 2013, 2013 spring. What do you think Sasquatch is? Man, this is the game that I always play. And Mike and I have had this debate over and over again in terms of confidence. I'll tell you what I saw that went behind that tree was physical in every sense of the way. hair, body, muscle, skin, hand, foot, hair, all of it saw very, very physical. What those eyes were and how I've shown that flashlight and how we've shown those flashlights and it was as if those flashlights were being enveloped by darkness and you couldn't see anything

about those eyes. I don't know what make of that, to be honest. He and I have argued back and forth about like, you know, how with skin type and hair, that stuff can happen. Like, it's the same way sometimes, you know, cows or other animals at night. You know, when you pick up their eyes, that's what you pick up initially. And as you, you know, adjust and as you get used to, you see more of a shape or a form. But to be honest, that I go back and forth on that one being either a physical or something different, something a little bit beyond. And I think that's the continuous mystery we have with Bigfoot is I want to lean forward, lean on the side of it being, you know, an undiscovered primate or something along those lines of a physical nature. But then you get these

stories and you get these experiences that are completely outside that, that realm in every way. And it makes you, it does, it does make you wonder. I, I still lean more towards a physical being, but that doesn't, that doesn't mean it doesn't have a, a secondary side where it can jump. I think that sometimes we talk about like we whether you want to talk quantum physics and dimensions or you want to talk spiritual realm versus physical realm. Like I think you can have those things where you have physical entities that jump back and forth. We talk about that with angelic and demonic. Same thing can go I think in that same way. You know, you kind of hit it there because I was going to ask you could they be both physical and not so far?

physical. You know, everybody knows I'm really into the Nephilim. And, you know, looking into that topic, you dive into extra-canonical books. And I think sometimes, especially Christians, are like, oh, I'm not going to touch that book because they look at it like as a satanic Bible, you know? And in all reality, especially the first book of Enoch, that's a very accurate book. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, early Christians would use the first book of Enoch to argue against right. the Jews in terms of the validity of things. Yeah. It's quoted in the Bible. And on top of it, like, a lot of times people, they picture the people who wrote the Bible, like say Paul, they picture Paul when he wrote, you know, one of the books of the Bible, like he was, you know,

knocked unconscious and his hand just wrote uncontrollably and it was just God writing through his body. If that's the case, then God didn't need Paul to begin with. But Paul was a real person. and he had real life experiences and he had real things that influenced him to create Paul. There was things that happened to him throughout his entire life that molded him into being the Paul that we knew and those things come through his writings. You know, that's why the New Testament has so many different authors and all the writing is different is different. Because these are real people who had different education levels and things like that.

I say all that because these guys read things, you know, like the Bible wasn't the first book ever created. You know, like, these guys were educated people. They read things. Paul was extremely educated in the, um, the, the, uh, uh, religious realm of things. And I, I do believe the book of Enoch is something that he read and he knew about. Uh, and I say all that to say, what if, and I know people are like, oh, that's Wu. Uh, if you want to call it Wu, that's fine.

I think Wu is just stupid, uh, to be honest with you, the whole idea of it. I guess if you want to deny that anything spiritual exists, then I guess woo is, okay, it's woo-woo. But the moment somebody is willing to admit that there is a spiritual realm, demonic attacks like we're talking about tonight, then the whole idea of woo-woo, it shouldn't be so absurd. And basically what I'm getting to is, you know, in the extra canonical books, I can't remember if it's the book of watchers or the book of giants. It talks about the fallen angels, not only having sex with women, but defiling animals and plants as well. And sometimes I wonder, is what we're seeing in Dog Man and Sasquatch a, you know, 10th, whatever, 20th generation

offspring of these Nephilim that, because Nephilim were, you know, like, are we got Goliath in the Bible. He was a giant Nephilim. That's what he was. But if these angels, fallen angels were doing this with animals as well, those offspring would also be Nephilim, just not a human entity of Nephilim, but more of an animal-like. And I just, I wonder if that's what we're dealing with. And I say all that to say, because if that's the case, then all these woo-woo encounters with Sasquatch where it just disappeared or it, you know, did something supernatural. All of a sudden, now you got to say, if you believe that, and I'm not even saying I believe it. What I'm saying is I'm leaning towards it, but I still don't know.

But would these creatures possess characteristics and traits of their fathers that are supernatural? You know, does that get passed on? In Enoch, it talks about how they taught humans the cutting of roots and things like that. It was basically they taught them witchcraft, you know, and that's why God says knock it off because we're not supposed to know how to do that to begin with, you know? And so I wonder if that's something that they could have taught. I don't know. But it's just it's a very, it's a very deep and complex topic to talk about. Yeah, I think one of the cool things I learned in anthropology when I was doing anthropology in college was magic versus miracles. And magic is man's way of controlling the world. versus miracles is our way of letting God do in the world. And I think that's a really profound statement. I think that's why a lot of times magic is the way it is and why it's not enjoyed or or liked in so many ways and how it has and also how it has so many profound repercussions

on top of it. The way you described, and I know we didn't even bring you on to talk about your Sasquatch encounter, but the way you described. it engulfing the light. I've heard that before. And not with Sasquatch, but I mean, I might have heard it with Sasquatch, but I was getting towed one day. My truck broke down. And I just talked to people about crazy stuff. I don't care. I just talked to people. I'm like, I don't care. And so my towto driver, I got him on the topic of paranormal stuff. And I was like, yeah, so what do you think? You know, because it was a dark night out and I was looking at stars. I'm like, you think UFOs are real?

That's how I started a conversation. And then I wound up to bring it up to that. I had the podcast and all that stuff. And then I got him talking. And he said that he used to run around the pine barons. And he came across, and I told this on another show. But he came across, they came across this lake in the middle of the night. And I guess they camped there or something.

And at one point, they saw this giant shadow rise up on the other side of the lake. And they shine their flashlights on it. and the light engulfed the light. It, like he said it was like it consumed the light. And when you describe the Sasquatch encounter as consuming the light, that's, to me, it's just not a physical thing. I know you and Mike debated and all that stuff. And I'm a truck driver.

I don't think on high levels. I think very basic. But, I mean, like, to me, that's something that's not natural. And to me, it sounds like you kind of lean that way, but you're not ready to commit to that idea. Like I said, I think definitely there's two sides of the coin. And like in the immortal words of West Grimmer, if you're not having one study in your garage, you don't know.

We will never know until I'm going to have it. Yeah. And it's just like, I don't think anybody's going to ever have one in their garage to study because I think maybe these things may not be what everybody thinks they are. And, you know, maybe that's why we can't catch them. I don't know. Yeah, who knows. But you found one, though.

When you go, yeah, man, and it's still, like, there's still times where I'm out where I'll be out camp because I'm not letting it, you know, take me out of the woods because I love hiking. I love camping. I love doing this. But there are times, like, where I'm sitting by the fire and I'm heading to my tent and I pull up my flashlight. And I'm literally waiting to see those eyes again or something to just pop up and scare me after death and put me in those places. But at the same time, like I know where I'm at. Like, I know who protects me. who's my comforter and my joy and my strength. And that same breath, I think that's another piece that just I am reminded of continuously. And it's a good way of reminding other people. Like, we don't have to be afraid. We really don't ever have to be afraid. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely right. And, you know, it kind of goes back to what I said earlier in the show. It makes you wonder, did you find the Sasquash? Did it find you? You know, because if it is a more supernatural entity, maybe there is no finding these things. Maybe they're the ones that find us for whatever reason. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I've had, I've had a debate with another friend of mine who's a little bit of

skeptic, but he's, he's great. He plays along. He's a good, he's a good guy. And we've had discussions like that. And he actually asked the same question. He's like, do you think, do you think you found it or do you think it found you? And he's like, think about, you know, the stick trunks you talk about, the giftings and the things that you also discussed and the calls and the knocks. He's like you could you could almost define that as ritualistic. If you really want to take it in a different route, you could look at that as a ritualistic piece to this. That has nothing to do with anything that's natural or in this normality that we see.

So I've definitely, you know, toyed with that as well. in that same way. Yeah, absolutely. That's a good point. It does seem very ritualistic, you know. And, you know, I used to run around looking for Bigfoot and I'm not opposed to it still, but I just don't have time and my back's pretty messed up right now. But, you know, it's one of those things where it's like the dog that's chasing something and it finally catches it. It's like it doesn't know what to do with it, you know. I sometimes I wonder if I ever do, come across a Sasquatch, what am I going to do then? You know? I don't know. I don't know. But I do know this. And this is what I always told Don, the guy that I like hiking with. He's a

great guy, great guy. I always tell him, I literally, and I tell everybody this, I'm not afraid to die because I'm really secure in my life after this life. It's just how I'm going to die. You know, is it going to hurt, you know? And when it comes to the Sasquatch thing, if I die by the hands of a Sasquatch, I think that's life complete, man. Like, I, like, I, like, I proved. Like, the thing, it's, it's real. Clearly it's real, because I'm getting battered by it, you know? It's ripping into pieces and eating you. Yeah. Mission complete. Mission complete. I did it. Tell my wife I love them. Tell my kid that I did it. My legacy lives on you. Exactly. Exactly. So, I mean, I, I,

I think I'd probably, if you told me you could either die by getting ripped apart by a Sasquatch or shot in the head at point blank range, I'd probably choose a Sasquatch because at least I know I'm going out, but, you know, by proving something existed. Yeah, but then you got nobody to tell. You got nobody to tell. That's true. Then you're just another statistic on the missing 401 projects. Exactly.

Well, you know, I'll be on my cloud and be like, look what I did. See that? I found it. You know? I did it. Listen, I did it. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks I did it. Exactly. The famous last words of Tony Markle is, I did it. Oh, man, we got way off course tonight, but it's okay. That's all right. It's nice to do that. It's just having fun and talking. But I mean, like, and that's, I enjoy that. Being able to just have discussions on, you know, topic. But I think they all still correlate. I think we've had like where we've jumped around. but they all still correlate in that. Yeah, and you know, I talk with a lot of people and some of my friends were really getting into trying to cross these lines between these topics. Like you got your paranormal, you got your Sasquoise, you got your aliens, you got your demonic things, you got your angels,

and everybody just wants to keep things in the boxes. And we're starting to really try to, like, I'm not taking notes because half the time I'm driving a truck. but I mean mentally I'm taking notes I'm trying to see the correlations between things like the eyes of your Sasquatch encounter

the eyes of the Sasquatch encounter that you had what color were the eyes? They were yellow, yellowish green. And let me ask you a question. You mentioned yellow eyes earlier in this show and what was that with? That was with the witchy black figure that attacked me at night.

Exactly. We hear red eyes and then we hear red eyes on Sasquatch and we hear red eyes with demonic encounters. We also hear red eyes with dog man encounters. We hear that, you know, mind speak. We hear that with Sasquatch. We hear that with demonic things. Like there's a lot of things that seem to cross over.

Even abductions. Like people talk about Sasquatch abducting people. But what else abducts people? Aliens, right? And then we have people say, we saw. a Sasquatch in the same vicinity as a UFO. Or we saw a Sasquatch in a UFO. I've heard that too. Like, and it sounds crazy sometimes when you hear some of these things. But when you erase the boundaries of these things being different topics completely, all of a sudden, you're like,

huh, you know, is there, maybe they're not the same thing, but maybe there is a correlation to some extent, you know, I don't think we're ever going to have the answers. I don't think we're ever going to truly solve these puzzles, but it's fun to try. Yeah, going down the rabbit hole for a good time and places. Just like I said, like there's just times where I'll get so deep in it. I have, like you said before, like I have my couch and my snacks and my drinks and all these and I'm basically sitting in this place. And I have to sometimes sit back and rewind and take myself out of it for a little while and re-center and get to a place. I'm like, okay, all right, all right. I'm safe again. I'm good. And go right back to it and having some fun discussions

and places. Yeah. You know, I get so used to being in the rabbit hole now that there are some podcasts that I used to listen to that I felt like, okay, I feel like going down the rabbit hole today, so I'm going to listen to this show. And now I find myself listening to those shows to relax from the rabbit hole. That's how far I am in the rabbit hole. Yep. I know what you. No, I know exactly what you mean. No, I know exactly what you mean. It's like, I need some normalcy. Let me turn on this podcast that I used to think is the rabbit hole. And all of a sudden it's just normal. It's like, oh, thank God for some normalcy. But, Justin, I really appreciate you coming on and just sharing some of these stories and stuff.

I don't know what to tell you when it comes to some of these things that you've experienced because they're very emotional, they're very physical, and it seems like they're recurring. And you're, how old are you? 26, we're 27 in April, well, the end of April. So 27 years old, and you've had these experiences and a lot of experiences since college, which isn't that long ago. And I'm not trying to wish anything upon your life, but the pattern shows that this probably isn't done yet.

unless something has changed that you know it's done. But I know, but through talking with you, you know, for months now on Messenger and things like that, like, I know you're a solid individual and you're ready to, you know, if something else happens, you're not going to be caught off guard. You know, that's what I'm trying to say. And so if something were to happen, you know, after we talk today, not saying tomorrow, but I'm just saying in the future, if something were to happen. Is that something that would catch you off guard, or do you think that it's like old hat by now? You're ready to handle it? Yeah, I think at this point, you know, just staying guarded, you know, Stey, Epheson 6, like staying in the full armor, like the full armor of God,

just being prepared for whatever the enemy is ready to throw at you. And, you know, I see that, and I remind that with my friends. I used it definitely as a testimony to, to other people as both, an attributing factor to what's out there, but also to reassure them too. There's victory. What did I do to get them to go away? I commanded them to leave in the name of Jesus. Go away in Jesus' name.

And they did. It took time sometimes. It wasn't immediate, but they went away in Jesus' name. There's power in that. And I think, I know sometimes it's lost, and people will roll their eyes and say, yeah, right. But push comes to shove,

and you're putting in one of those places and the fists are off and the, you know, the gloves are off and the fists are out with some of these experience I've had, you know, I'm always going to have him in my corner and we're going to win every time. Yeah. You know, and you mentioned that and I wanted to just say, you know, you say in the name of Jesus leave and you're talking about a demonic encounter with that. But we hear that with what else? Dog man. A lot of times people say that with dog man encounters and they say it leaves. I've even heard it with Sasquatch encounters. And so if I walk up to my neighbor tomorrow, he's getting the mail, I walk over to my neighbor, I say, in the name of Jesus leave, what's he going to do? He's probably just going to stare at me like I'm a crazy guy, right?

Okay. But when we have these paranormal, outside of normal experiences, I'm talking about everything, dogman, Sasquatch, demons, whatever. when you command it to leave in the name of Jesus, we hear that a lot, that they leave. And so it just, you know, I'm very big on just crossing the lines right now and trying to, you know, compare notes with other categories. And it's kind of crazy, you know? Yeah, absolutely. I think, I think there is, when we take the lines down, we take the boxes out, there are definitely similarities and there are definitely things that

mixed together really, really well. I've had that same argument with people with aliens and demonic and stuff when you look at people who go through like, I want to say hypnosis, and they go back and relive like the experience that they had in the ship where they're being

tortured or they're being probed or whatever. It looks like in exorcism because they're shaking uncontrollably. They're screaming. They're feeling pain again. They're begging for it to stop. And you look at that and you're like, that looks like an exon. That looks like demonic oppression. That literally looks like something that I would have experienced. So I don't think that they're all like, I don't think there's differences in a lot of these. I think they do a lot of times blend together in certain ways. Yeah. Who knows though, right? We just threw out a bunch of different theories on this show and we could be totally wrong. And, They're all their own categories and we can all live happy little lives knowing that Sasquatch is just a furry little or furry big giant in the woods. Oh God, I hope so.

Oh, God, I hope so. I just there's, yeah, just sitting there like, yeah, I hope. Or we're all just crazy and it's all done. We're probably crazy. You have to take my word for it. We're just, well, Justin, listen, man, I really appreciate you coming on here and sharing these stories. And, you know, the door is always open.

If you want to come back on, if you have anything else. you'd like to share. You know, I think this interview is a good interview, and I think people are going to enjoy it. So thank you very much. Well, that's the show, everybody. I really hope you enjoyed it. And if you did enjoy, go ahead and give us a rating and review, a five-star rating and review on iTunes.

Now, remember, we do have a special show coming up next week outside of our normal show on December 24, 2018. That's Christmas Eve. We're coming out their Christmas Eve special where you're going to hear your favorite podcasters such as Diane Student from History Goes Bump, Jerry Polly from Hillbilly Horror Stories, Timothy Renner from Strange Familiers, West German from Sasquatch Chronicles, and Dark Waters, all sharing scary Christmas stories in between Christmas music. I really hope you guys enjoy that show because I know a lot of people travel on the holidays,

and this might help you pass some time. And also, we are coming out with our normal episode on Tuesday, Christmas Day, December 25th, 2018. It is going to be a fantastic show. So you're going to have two fantastic shows back to back. I really hope you guys enjoy it. Take care, stay safe, and remember. The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.

Bye.