The Confessionals - 154: Abductions Stopped By Jesus

Episode Date: August 27, 2019

On Episode 154: Abductions Stopped by Jesus, we sit down with MUFON Investigator Joe Jordan. Joe started out as a typical investigator, looking into people's reports of unidentified flying objects. But then, Joe began to come across cases of people being abducted by an unknown force. What is even more unusual is that he has collected well over 100 cases of these abductions that were stopped abruptly when the abductee claimed the name of Jesus Christ in the process of being abducted.BECOME A MEMBER AND GET ADDITIONAL SHOWS: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/join Subscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaI Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/the-newsletterWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail]: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcastTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelShow Intro INSTRUMENTAL: www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyub39AXxUwShow Intro FREE DOWNLOAD: https://bit.ly/2HxNcw3Show Art: Alika Spahn Naihe (www.hauoliart.com)Outro Song: Tainted Love by Helene Michele

This was all circulating around the base that a giant had to kill, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, bony fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappeared. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing at this giant. with a giant move, he's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast. It spears, Dan, holds him up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face.

They basically decapitated. And I look over, and there are two, and they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed. It's pushed, and I touch air. Couldn't breathe, and I couldn't move, because I know I'm seeing a monster. Yep. Welcome to the show, everybody. You're listening to The Confessionals. I am your host, Tony Murm.

Thank you for being here. If you've had an encounter or story you'd like to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is The Confessionalspodcast at gmail.com. That's The Confessionalspodcast at gmail.com. Or go to the website, the confessionalspodcast.com. Hit the contact section and you can reach me that way as well. And if you're a lover of the confessionals and you want more of the confessionals, you can become a member to the website, theconfessionalspodcast.com, which will get you access to forums.

but most importantly, it will get you one extra episode every Thursday. We'll release a new show for members only on the confessionalspodcast.com. So if that interests you, go ahead and check it out. But this week we have Joe Jordan coming on who is a Mufon investigator. And now Joe started out as just a normal Mufon investigator investigating UFO sightings. And then he started coming across people who are having abductions. And he started finding that a lot of these people who were having these abductions were able to stop the abduction by claiming the name of Jesus. And so he started taking note of these things and brought

his findings to move on themselves. And I think you might find it interesting about what their response was to his research. And so this week's episode brings a little bit of a different take to what abductions are. So if you're interested in it, stay tuned because we're going to get to it right now. All right, today we have a great guest coming on. Joe Jordan. Sir, how are you? I'm good, Tony. I'm glad to be on your show. Yeah, this is like the, I think technically speaking, it's a third time we've attempted to record. I know the first time we recorded, we tried it twice.

And I was going to try airing your episode recently. I was listening to the audio. I was like, oh, man, this just wasn't working. So I'm really glad to have you here. We're third time's a charm. We're going to get this thing done. Joe, you're an interesting guy because your life has taken different paths that I don't think you even plan for, but you find yourself right now in South Korea of all places. And you're actually

working as a private contract, if I remember correctly, for the Department of Defense. How did that whole thing come about for you? Because I know it's something that, I don't think you went to school for something like this, right? No, I didn't, actually. But before I start into that, the comment that you just made that my life has taken different paths, I have to, that brought back an old memory to me. I got to share it before I start into how I got over here. Part of my testimony where my life was making changes when I got into the UFO phenomenon,

it took me into the New Age realm. And one of the first encounters I had in the New Age realm with the New Age was I saw a poster on a New Age bookstore that was advertising a Pleiadian channeler that was coming and, you know, people could sign up to, you know, to meet with him in a session. And he was going to be sharing a lot of insights that he had. And I thought, okay, this is step one. Let's go check this out.

And I went to this session that he was having. There was quite a few people there. And he made a comment, you know, in this talk. He said, you know, we have lived many lives. And I had to raise my hand. And he said, yeah. I said, I just got to make a comment on that. said, I don't know about if I live many lives or not, but I can tell you I've lived many lives

within this lifetime. And that's kind of like what you were just talking about, because my life has been through many changes, you know, that I can go back and look at. I'm going, man, you know, that's not even me anymore. You know, any one of those, I've become a different person as life goes long. They're all part of how I got here, I guess, but I'm not the same as I was then. And that brings me to how I ended up here in Korea. I spent 24 years working for a leading boat company in the world. I guess I can say the name, Sea Ray Boat Company. They were based out of Knoxville, Tennessee,

but we had four facilities, manufacturing facilities there in Florida. The weather's perfect for Florida. You can do fiberglass manufacturing year round. You know, the cold doesn't affect it. So it was a good place to have the, you know, the manufacturing facilities at. I started working for them in 85 to 24 years with them. And by 2009, that's when the economy took a dive. You remember the stock market went down.

Everybody lost on their 401ks and a lot of companies took major hits and disappeared. one of the big things that happened at that time because the market was taken a hit, the first thing that seems to disappear on the market is toys, you know, and pleasure boats are a toy for the rich. And if they're going to tighten their purses, that's the first thing you're going to cut back on is their toys. And we took a major hit the boat company did along with all the other boat companies around the world. and anything that was dealing with, you know, pleasure or, you know, fun and things like that, but the toy aspect of the economy, we all took a major hit.

And as we started cutting back our company and, you know, downsizing to meet the demands that were left, I saw that this was no longer the company that I had worked for for so many years. It had changed very quickly to become. survivor and I just wasn't wanting to be part of that anymore and I wasn't feeling very secure in remaining there so I started looking at other avenues of employment. The last five years I was at the boat company I became a safety professional for them at the product development and engineering facility and I learned everything I could myself you know in trainings to become a safety professional. I was in a facility that had about 450 people employed, and I was responsible for all

the safety aspects of their work. And so I had moved into a new profession, you know, I could say, because that wasn't the type of work I had done so many years. And I'm glad I made that change, because come 2009, as I was looking for other jobs and other opportunities that might be out, there. I was using that line of profession to search for jobs. And I knew that the contractor market for the military was very big at the time in Afghanistan and Iraq and Kuwait, places like that. As a war was going on and civilian contractor work was huge supporting the military. They do a lot of the stuff that the soldiers are freed up to do so they can do the fighting. And I started pursuing those avenues. I thought, you know, let's see if I can get to

something and some big money for a short period of time and maybe be able to retire. And I started putting in the applications, you know, for Afghanistan, Iraq and other areas that were high pay and high risk. And there were a lot of sakey professional jobs available. I just wasn't getting a hit. You know, a lot of nibbles, but I just, the hit wasn't there to say, yeah, we're going to take. you. And I was getting discouraged, prayed a lot over it, and then all of a sudden I get an email come through from one of the recruiting headhunters that I was using. And it said there's a, you know, a local position that meets what you're looking for. And I thought, oh, man, local, you know, what can be local that be worth staying here for it? Because our, you know,

our whole county was taking a major hit because of the economy falling. And I looked at it and it was for a safety specialist at the Kennedy Space Center. And I thought, you've got to be kidding me. For 30 years, I've been trying to get out to the Space Center, but I didn't know anybody that I could rely on to get me out there. I didn't have that connection because it seemed like everybody that worked at the Space Center had an uncle or a brother or father or a grandfather or somebody to work there. But I had nobody.

you know, and I tried many, many times to get hired on out there on the spaceover program, but just couldn't get in, couldn't get that connection. But here, this one wasn't looking for it that way. It was looking for somebody outside, with outside set of eyes to come in and help out on the safety aspect of the program. So I put in for it, and then, lower behold, I got called for an interview and had an hour-long interview with the supervisor and manager. And out of 200 personnel that had applied for that job, I ended up getting that job.

So I got a dream job, a dream that I had for 30 years. And I got it on my own merits. I didn't have to rely on somebody else to pull me in. Because of the experience that I had put together and worked with at the boat company the last five years, it was able to get me hired working on the program out there at the Kennedy Space Center. And I thought, wow, what a blessing. To be able to live a dream that you didn't think would ever come true. So I was able to work there at the Space Center for a few years. And I was at the end of the space shuttle contract, you know, where it started winding down to the end. And President

when Obama, you know, stated that the shuttle program was ending and we were going to go to privatization of space. And I understood all of that. And it was sad to see it all, you know, go away, the shuttle program. But I understand how this, how this vision works for a privatizing space. It encourages competition. It encourages more development. And it's actually less costly than having a good.

government, you know, do it all themselves, which is kind of what we had with the shuttle program. But here I was back again in that same situation, you know, things are winding down. It's not what I thought it, you know, not what it used to be? And then, you know, what risk was I at of possibly being out of work? So again, I decided to look at where I was looking prior to that job, back out into the contract world and see what I could find. I was trying to get Afghanistan. in Iraq, the way, you know, the big money jobs were still there, the safety positions were there, but just nibble, nibble, nibble, no bite. And then lo and behold, an email comes through, again, from a recruiter. And it happened to be for a job in South Korea, the exact same position

that I was doing there at the Space Center. And it happened to be with the same company that I was working for while I was at the space center. So this wasn't even a change in company. This was just a lateral move within the company. But it was in a place that the people weren't shooting at you. You could take your family and your pets. It wasn't as high a pay as, you know, the danger areas, the high risk areas, but it was sufficient enough to where it was worth the move. You know, and a lot of people that I worked with there at the Space Center and the boat company just couldn't make those kind of moves for whatever reason. You know, after I made the moves over to Korea, you know, a lot of my friends had run into my father, and they knew my father, and they say, hey, you know, how's your son doing? I haven't seen him in a while. And my father would always tell him, you know, that, hey, he's doing great. He's making good money. He's employed.

he's living life to the fullest, and he's in the foreign countries in South Korea. And they would just kind of slump their shoulders and look at him and say, you know, I just couldn't do that. You know, and that's sad that people can't make that kind of move, you know. I always felt that you had to do what you have to do, you know. And I had no fear in making a change that was very drastic from what I was used to. because I needed to take care of family. I needed to take care of things and the family I was supporting. So I had to make the move.

There was no question about it. And when I made the move to South Korea, it was absolutely awesome making the move over here because I grew up traveling the world. My father was in the Army in my younger days, up until I was a senior in high school. and we lived, you know, eight years in Europe, four years in France, two years in Germany, and two years in Turkey. And I had traveled, you know, through 14 different countries by the time I graduated high school.

You know, since I've made the move to Korea, I'm up to 17 countries now. And, you know, what a blessing of an education to be able to see the world. So I didn't even come over here in fear in any way of something strange. to me being able to come back overseas was, you know, going back to what I felt was the norm, you know, being outside of America, being in foreign country and experiencing different cultures and people. And I've been here eight years now. I visit back in, you know, Florida where I'm from, visiting friends and family. I make trips back to the States when I can. But I love this place.

I love the culture. I love the people. And it seems like Korea has the things that we wish we had in the U.S. Culture-wise, or maybe things that we had and we've lost.

And, you know, these people are striving to be, you know, the best in the world. They're striving to be like Americans. And, you know, sometimes they have to warn them. I say, you don't want to be like Americans.

You want to be successful, yes. But you really don't want to be like Americans. You know, there's too many issues that come with that. So that's where I'm at now. Yeah, I mean, that's a fantastic journey of life, right? I mean, and I'm on the same boat as you. I mean, I'm the kind of guy that I call the shots as they come and I try to make the best decision for my family. If that means, you know, doing something that most people would say is crazy or very drastic, I'm okay with that because if I feel like I'm making the best decision for my family, that's all that matters for me. I mean, it's, it's a lot of

It's been an interesting ride for me as well. I mean, I'm 33 right now. I got married when I was 21, so I've been married for 12 years. And over the last 12 years of my marriage, you see the change in me on how I operate through life. When I was younger, when we first got married, I was very timid on making decisions. And I would always refer to my parents and whatever they thought, I pretty much made that decision. And I wasn't really being a man on my own yet. And then as time goes on, especially years into a marriage and then the child comes along, it's basically at that point, it's my life, it's my family's life, I'm in charge, and I make the shots, and I call the shots. And so it's really, it's an interesting life you live when you,

when you live your life, not afraid to make tough decisions. And so I think it's really cool that you you were able to make that decision and head over there and kind of really enter into a whole new culture that you probably never been exposed to before. Oh, yeah, it's definitely different. I keep a chart up on my refrigerator that I look at quite frequently, and it's got Korea on the left, and it's got U.S. on the right, and it's, you know, I put up to things that that keep me here compared to what would keep me in the U.S. And the Korean list gets longer and longer,

and the U.S. list keeps getting shorter and shorter. I don't know. Things have just changed so much in the U.S. And I really enjoy this culture here. You know, these people go to school, the kids go to school, 10, 12, 14 hours a day. Wow. You know, they're wanting to be not just the best in Korea,

the best Koreans. They want to be the best in the world. 65 years, they've come from devastation to, you know, the leading technologically, technological country in the world right now. I mean, most everybody in America has some sort of Korean product, whether they're driving a Korean vehicle, you know, a Hyundai or a Kia, or they've got a Samsung phone or a Samsung TV or an LGTV. You know, all those come out of Korea. And these guys have just come so far and they've done it by staying focused and staying diligent and, you know, and striving for what it, and doing what it takes to get to that point. And the schooling is just amazing, you know, these kids, they don't drop out of school. They don't

skip class. That's just not happening. These kids want to be the best. And, you know, it's almost scary to watch when it comes time for them to get their scoring to see what universities they're going to because there's always a fear of these kids committing suicide because they just didn't score high enough and they didn't meet the expectations that they accept for themselves. It's that strong of a drive for education here because they know that education leads to success. And the business people is just amazing here. When you go a store, you don't go into a store and you have people that work in there that kind of disappear and don't want to help you. These people, as soon as you step in there, can I help you? What are you

looking for? And even when you buy something, the packaging is the most exquisite packaging I've ever seen. You know, their presentation of everything is just phenomenal. You know, I used to think we had these things in the States, you know, respect for elders and strive for. for education and, you know, the work ethic that I see over here. But the more I travel back and forward, the more I see less and less of it in America. I don't know the answer for why that's happening myself. I try to stay out of that part of it. I stay focused on my work and my research that I do.

But it is sad to see that change. I don't know. Maybe it's happened for quite a many years now. I don't know. But I do enjoy the things that I do see. here. It's such an awesome place to be, you know, and they actually enjoy having the Americans here. They enjoy learning from us. Most all of them speak English. They teach it in the schools all the way from the elementary grades. They start learning American and English grammar in the early grades.

And then by the time they get to middle school, they bring in the, you know, the foreign teachers that speak English to teach them, you know, what do you call it? the speaking English, which a lot of times is different than the grammatical English, you know. A lot of us don't follow what we learned in grammar, you know, as an English language, but they want to be able to learn to speak the language because that is the language that's used worldwide as far as businesses go. You know, years and years ago, you know, when I was younger, French was the common language around the world that everybody was learning in school, but it seems as though more and more has moved to English.

So that's a little bit about the culture here and, you know, why I do enjoy being here. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it. I mean, it sounds like you're in a culture where people really care about, you know, where they're going and what direction they're going as a collective. And everybody has their own role in that. And they see that and they all put effort into it. And I think that's really cool. But that's not what we are going to be talking about tonight for the main part here.

here. Joe, you got involved in UFO alien abduction research. And I don't think this was something that was initially, I could be wrong, but I don't think initially you were interested in these topics, but you more or less stumbled into it. Is that right? Oh, yes. This was far the same from my mind, the idea of studying UFOs or researching UFOs or even talking about UFOs and aliens. Back when I was working at the boat company, I had an opportunity to take a vacation. I think it was 1992. I took a week-long vacation to visit my brother, who was in the Air Force stationed up in Anchorage, Alaska. And it was going to be a long trip flying out of Orlando to Anchorage.

It was supposed to be 10 hours or 10 hours plus. And, you know, that was prior to having all the electronics we have today to keep us busy. on a plane. So I went to the kiosk there at the Orlando International Airport looking for a magazine or a book to pick up. And as I was looking through the different sections of what to read, I kind of fell back on something that I was familiar with, which was science fiction. As a youngster, I was an avid science fiction reader. We didn't have much TV when I lived overseas in Europe. Nothing that was in English that I could watch. So we did a lot of listening to the radio that, you know, the American radio station they had on the basis or a lot of reading.

And I picked up a lot of reading myself, which was in the sci-fi realm. I love sci-fi because it's escapism, you know, no matter how bad a day you're having, you grab a nice sci-fi book and you can be on another planet, another world with other races, you know. And it's all escapism. And I knew that's all it was. You know, it was just fiction. But it happened to be science fiction. And that was the part I love. So I found the book that I picked up and looked at.

And I thought, ah, this is science fiction book. And I hadn't read one in a while. So this was something new to pick back up and start into again. And I looked at it and it puzzled me because it was reading on the front cover like it was not science fiction. But when I looked over on the back of it, you know, well, the front cover did look like science fiction, actually. And then when I looked at the back of it, it stated that it wasn't that it was science research into something that happened in 1947 in Roswell, New Mexico. And the name of the book was UFO crash at Roswell. Well, you know, this was puzzling me.

Was this fiction, science fiction, or was it not? it looked to be a little of both, and I didn't understand how you could have both. You know, it was either was or it wasn't. So I thought, let's give it a try. And I bought the book. I started reading it on the plane. Any downtime I had there in Alaska, which wasn't much, but I did use it to try and finish the book. And the time I got back, within a week, I had the book finished.

And all I had from that book was a thousand questions. It's like, how is this possible? This didn't make any sense to my mind. I knew what fiction was. I knew what science fiction was. I knew what fantasy was. And this book was blurring those lines between reality and those fictional realms. And all it did was get me to ask more questions and enough to the point where I had to go find out more.

and I did find some avenues to go do some research into this and see if it was real or not. And it wasn't long before I stumbled into people that had made contact with me with UFO investigative groups like Mufon. And by 1993, I was actually a member of Mufant, became one of their field investigators. And by late that year, I was actually a state section director for Bavard County, Florida, where the space center is located where I lived, running a group myself of field investigators and holding meetings for people, monthly meetings that we were asked to hold as Mufon reps to let the public understand what Mufon is about and encourage membership and support the research. that's where I started into all of this. It happened really fast because my interest was really strong once I started looking at this.

And there was a lot of stuff to look at. There was been a lot of research that already happened over the years. So there was a lot of resources to be able to go and start looking at this phenomenon. And it really opened me up to trying to understand how to properly do the research, which I'm thankful to move on for helping me with that because they have great

training resources on how to do proper research and proper investigation. And that set my foundation into how to get into all of this and how to ask the right question and try to find the right answers. And I later found that some of the techniques that they had taught me in investigative methods kind of mirrored what I had learned in the safety profession on how to do incident investigation. And I use both together now, you know, to be able to work in this field of research. As I started into holding the monthly meetings that Mufon had asked me to hold, to educate the public and encourage the public for, you know, membership, we started seeing some pretty strange people show up at the meetings. I mean, think about it. You grab a room at the

library that they offer you for free, as long as you don't charge people. You know, you can have the room for free. They give you all the video capability that you need to share stuff with people. And you put a sign on the door and it says, UFO meeting, free. Just imagine what people, what kind of people might walk in there. Well, whatever you're thinking, that's pretty much what we got. These people had fascinating stories to tell. And these people have. And these people have, I've been dying to find somebody with like mind or like interest to be able to share their stories. Because most of them have experiences of some type, whether it be a UFO sighting or an abduction experience, so insanely bizarre that they just couldn't share with family members or coworkers or anybody.

So they were really happy to have a place that they could go to and share it with like minds. And the meeting was a great success. I'd have 45 to 50 people on any given monthly Sunday meeting. And I always offered, you know, the latest stuff on findings that we had in Mufon or things that I had come across in the realm to be able to share with them. Videos and, you know, recorded talks and stuff that, you know, had been going on. at the time. So it was exciting meetings for everybody.

The one thing that I realized as I worked with my fellow investigators in my group and looking at the people that were coming to the meetings, there was one group of people that were having issues, I should say.

They weren't happy people and they were really kind of distraught, almost seeming like many of them were suffering from PTSD. And these were the people that were claiming that they had had abduction experience or contact experience. And I started listening intently to their stories. And as I did, I shared with members of my group,

I said, you know, guys, we've been following up on sighting reports for a while now. But I don't think that's the front line of this phenomenon. We're following up on citing reports, the people that you've seen lights in the sky or things they couldn't identify. And we always follow up after the fact. But I think if we want to really get to the answers of this phenomenon,

and I think we need to talk to the people that are on the front line of this phenomenon. And that's the people that are having the induction or contact experience that say that they're in actual contact. with the entities that are behind the UFO phenomena. I said, to me, that's the front line. And if we're going to get to any answers, serious answers, I think it needs to be looked at there. And they all agreed.

And that's when we decided to change our research and focus more on the abductees and contactees rather than the siting reports. We didn't quit doing citing reports. We just focused our main efforts onto the abduction area. And the first thing we did was educate ourselves about the abduction phenomenon. We took everything we could find that was available on the ground, read it, watched it, listened to it, to be able to educate ourselves hopefully and sufficiently to a point that we wouldn't do any more damage to these people

if we were going to be working with them and taking their testimonies. Because that's one thing that I was afraid of. These people are already distraught. Their lives have been turned upside down by these experiences. They don't have answers to what's been happening to them. They don't know how to make it stop. And I didn't want to add anything to that trauma. So we educated ourselves the best we could before we started it.

Another problem that I saw at the time was Mufon was really not set up to do investigations at that time into the abduction experience. But I felt that it still needed to be done. So instead of coming under the auspice of Mufon doing the investigations, we set up another separate entity titled CE4 Research to work under. And we made sure that we offered everything publicly of our findings to anybody, that peer review and anybody wants to see it. And especially at Mupon asked for it, it was there to share to them.

We formed CE4 research. I called it a group, but it was pretty much anybody that was helping out with the research is part of the group. Many people have come and gone over the years helping out as they could. I thank all of them that have helped over the years. but CE4 is still the main entity that I do the work under. The CE4 research, the title comes from CE4 Jack Belay's classification of the UFO phenomenon, and CE4 is close encounter at a fourth kind, and that represented the abduction experience.

So I just titled it CE4 Research, and that's what I've kept for the past 20-sumption. years. As we started into this research, we started looking at the same issues that the secular researchers and peers that have been working on this for many years already, they had questions. They couldn't understand why this was happening to certain people and not others. They didn't have a commonality between experiences that they could put their finger on. They had a lot of theories, but nothing that was, you know, right to the point they could say, this is the reason, this is a common factor between them. It's just not there. They hadn't found that. They also said that nobody had been able to stop these experiences. So these are the things that we were finding at the same time in the beginning. And then about 19, I guess it was 97. we had interviewed an experiencer about his experience. We had him two hours on VHS tape that we had recorded this story.

And, you know, it passed right over us. We didn't even capture what he was talking about. Because in November of 1996, I had been introduced to Christianity. And I actually became a believer in Jesus. Christ, a follower of Jesus Christ, November of 1996. And because of that, I had to question, was I supposed to be doing this kind of work as a Christian?

And I was ready to back out of all of this because I thought there's something wrong with this whole phenomenon. And maybe it's something I shouldn't be dabbling in as a believer. And as I tried to do that, the Lord showed me that, no, I needed to be in this, and I'm not in this and I needed to take the message that I what I believed is to be back to where I had come from in the realm itself and I said you know I I don't feel comfortable just taking the Bible back to the UFO realm and saying hey this is not what you think it is you know the phenomenon is not what you think it is because the Lord had shown me that this was a demonic experience I just had no evidence of it and I said that you know if I'm going to

take the Bible back to this realm, it's not going to work because most of these people are into new age practices and they don't believe the Bible to be, you know, the inherent word of God. And I said, you need to give me something better than that. Well, he did. And that was that testimony I was talking about that we had recorded, but never paid attention to or never quite understood at the time. Maybe your eyes just weren't ready to see it. and our ears weren't ready to hear it.

But as we went back and looked at these testimonies, especially this one, we saw that something special was in this recording. And we had totally missed it, probably because we had our own preconceived notion at the time. But now that I had an ability to look at it from a different point of view, a different perspective, that perspective being as a Christian, I went, wow, this is huge. And in this testimony, this gentleman stated that while he was having one of his experiences, abduction experiences,

it became excrucially terrifying. And the only thing he could think to do in total fear was because he was a brand new Christian himself to call out, Jesus, Jesus helped me, or Jesus, Jesus. And when he did, the adoption experience instantly and abruptly stopped, and he woke up in the bed. And when I heard that, I thought, wait a minute, we've been told that the abduction experience can't be stopped. And yet, here this man is saying that he had stopped him. And in a way that I had never expected. it to be stopped. So I'm thinking, is this just a fluke experience testimony, or is this something that actually has happened before? And maybe we haven't heard about it. So I contacted the leading

researchers in the room that I had studied from and called them personally and said, guys, I got this unusual case here. I'd like to talk to you about. I have questions about it. And they say, sure, you know, what do you have? Tell me what you got. And I tell us. And I tell us. the story about this gentleman and before they would answer me they would say can we go off the record on this and i'd say sure we can go off the record i don't mind i'm just looking for some answers here you know um off the record also means that i can tell you what these people said but i can't tell you who said it okay that's off the record that's keeping anonymity and what these gentlemen said each one that I talked to, was, yes, we've come across cases like this where people have been able to stop these experiences either by singing a hymn, a Christian hymn, saying a prayer, calling out in Jesus' name.

And I'm thinking, really, but we've read your work and nowhere do you state that that's possible. You state otherwise that you can't stop an experience. Well, there's reasons for that. And I said, well, what would that reason be? And all of them pretty much said the same thing. We didn't know what to make of that. You know, and I'm fully accepting of that. Yeah, you didn't know, okay?

Maybe it needs to be looked at a little bit deeper. I understand. I can accept that answer. But the mistake they made was the other answer they gave me, along with that. We were afraid to go there because it might affect our credibility in the UFO realm. Because they were getting into religion. That's what they were afraid of. To bring that up in the UFO realm. It's not very well accepted in the UFO realm. So instead of sharing evidence, actual research findings, they decided not to share at all. And that, my friend, is what you call a cover-up.

Not just lying about something, but refusing to give all the information. And I thank them for their input, and I told them all. I said, you know, I've got nothing to lose here. I work for a living. I don't support myself in the research. I don't write books and give talks and all that. And I said, I'm just trying to put together a piece of a puzzle that seems to be missing. and I said

there must be other testimonies out there like this and I'm going to go find them and I'm going to publish them and these gentlemen all said the same thing at the end please do because we can't and that's what I've been doing for 20 some years now as I went back and talked to my co-workers or co-partners in this researchers in this

I said here's where we're at I said, there is answers out here. We've been given that confirmation. We just got to go find them. And I said, let's set up our own research. Let's start somewhere. Let's do this the way they want us to do it. So I put out a hypothesis, a question that we all agreed on we would pursue.

And the question was, are Christians being abducted by aliens? And as we started into the research, our findings came up with two answers, yes and no. And that puzzled us that we would end up with two answers. We thought we would end up with yes or no. But we ended up with yes and no. And the reason for that is is because we found out in our research that there were two types of Christian believers. ones that wholeheartedly believed, accepted, and followed Jesus Christ

and those that believed and accepted but didn't really follow his teachings or his guidance kind of like the difference between those that believed in the heart and those that believed in the mind and we kind of had to separate those somehow so we called them the walk-to-walk believers and the talk-to-talk believers.

What I had found was there were no cases anywhere of walk-to-walk believers having this experience. People who were actually following in the teachings of Jesus Christ, giving devotion to Jesus Christ and his teachings, a personal relationship with him, compared to those that were accepting of Jesus Christ and his teachings, but not living that kind of walk, still leaving themselves open to worldly things. That's the talk-to-talk side. And because of that, we found that they were still dabbling in areas that the Bible

would teach you not to be part of. And that's leading us to the findings that we made that to why it happens to certain people. Our research has shown us because of what we had found between the walk to walk and talk to talk was the experience was happening because people were opening themselves up to it. We found three answers to that question, not just one. Why does this happen to certain people? one, people were openly asking for it. And believe me, some people do.

You look on the internet in these chat rooms or Facebook or whatever. You see people, man, I wish I could have that experience. We were working tables at conferences trying to share the truth with people. And all the people would see at our table was the word alien abduction without the rest of it. And that was their focus and they would make the comment, yeah, I'd literally like to have that experience. So I could understand what this really is. and we'd have to warn them. Be careful what you asked for.

So believe me, some people do actually openly ask for this experience. And then you have the second group, which were people who were gobbling in areas that they shouldn't have been and unknowingly opening the door to this experience. Okay, because we do believe that this is a demonic type spiritual experience. And these entities have a right to affect. your life if you give them that right. And by opening doors to areas you're not supposed to be dealing in, you give them that right. And the major group of people we found were in that group. And then there was a third group that puzzled us on why it was happening for a while,

but we did find an answer for that one too, was adults coming to us and saying that they've had this experience since they were a little child. And they couldn't have openly asked for it. They didn't know what they were asking for. And they couldn't have unknowingly been dobbling in these things because they were absolutely too young to. Well, why were they having these experiences? Well, as I went back and looked at those particular cases, I started asking different

questions to those experiencers. I had a hunch of what was happening here, but I needed to get a confirmation. So I went back and re-interviewed many of them, and I said, let's not talk about your experiences themselves, but let's go back farther to when you were a child, when you think these things first started happening to you.

And I said, let's talk about as much as you can remember about your family life, about your parents, about what they were involved in or participated in. Were they church-going folk? Were they not? Were they involved in different things in life that maybe weren't good? And every single time for that answer,

I found that the open door was in the family that was supposed to be taking care of them. And I found in scripture it talks about the head of the, the man is the head of the spiritual head of the household. And if he's not keeping that spiritual covering over the family, the family members, even the children, are susceptible to atoxy the enemy. And that pretty much backed up exactly what we were finding. So we found three different answers to why this happens to people.

And yet the secular researchers still don't have an answer today to why this is happening. And then we also had the backup testimony cases of people that have been able to stop the experience by calling on the name and authority of Jesus Christ. And as we put that information out there, more and more and more testimonies would come in. The more that we could publicize what we were finding, the more people were seeing them, the more people were willing to share that they also had a similar testimony. And over the past 20 years, I've worked with some 600 plus testimonies. And I have about 150 of them on my webpage. And I'm in the process of putting my book together right now. And I'll have over 100 brand new testimonies I've never shared in the book to support that.

And there's still plenty more that some people just ask to give the testimony but not share them. You know, they just want to put all of it behind them, you know, and that's fine. I understand some people just absolutely want to move on and don't want to look back. But I encourage people to share the testimonies because these testimonies are a hope for people that are still suffering from the horrific aspects of this experience. It gives them a hope that nobody else is offering out there in the UFO realm. And that's something that we've been trying to do here at CE4 research is to let people know that no matter how traumatic this experience is, you have a hope. There is a way to be free of this experience. And that brings me to a part of the science research that when you put out a hypothesis, you do everything you can to discreve the hypothesis, but you end up with this particular finding, which are the findings,

found is it repeatable you know is this event repeatable there are no repeatable events in uphology nobody has been able to call in a ship or a craft you know after it's already left they couldn't have one come in and then say hey I'm gonna make this happen again never seen that the only repeatable thing we've ever found in the field of uphology is in our research because we're able to to say to somebody, here's our findings. These people have been able to stop this experience this way. And only this way is all we found. If you want this experience to stop in your life, we too can help you. And we've been able to help people. That's a repeatable experience.

So that's something that fits everything that we've been asked to do in the research. We have testimonies that are not just first-time testimonies and we're sharing that they've been able to stop this experience through Jesus Christ, but we've got testimonies where they've come to us saying, can you help me? And we've been able to help them, and then they share their testimony. So, yeah, there's your repeatability. And that's what we've been doing all of these years, is trying to show there's another piece of this UFO puzzle that needs to be looked at. And I titled it in, you know, in a couple of my talks, the unwanted piece of the UFO puzzle. I had a chance to present my research at the 60th anniversary of the Roswell UFO crash conference and festival in Roswell in 2007. And it was called the unwanted piece of a UFO puzzle because nobody wants this answer to be true.

Nobody in a UFO realm wants this piece of the puzzle. They don't want it to be that this is the evidence for what we're dealing with. And this is our fight that we've been fighting for 20-some years now, is trying to get this information out to let people know that, hey, there is another piece of the puzzle that needs to be shared. When you're trying to put a puzzle picture together, you have to have every piece put on that table. Otherwise, you don't have a complete picture.

And the research is that in the realm that I work with don't want this piece on the table because it's going to change what they think the picture should look like. Yeah, that's something that I've noticed as well dealing with this stuff is that I, because I have a very wide range of audience as far as people's beliefs and stuff. I mean, I certainly have people that are Christians that listen to my show. and there's, I certainly have people who, you know, are atheists and pretty much anybody that is out there kind of type listens to my show. And I, I noticed that when I put up a show, such as the one that we're doing right now, I tend to get emails that are, um, more, how I would describe it? Like, more people that are,

I wouldn't, I don't want to go as far as saying outraged, but very, um, critical. to the idea that, you know, God has anything to do with the topic at hand or demons or anything like that. And for me, I approach these topics very open-minded. And I let people share their experiences and their opinions on what happened to them or what they've been researching. And it's up to the audience to decide what they want. But the hostility, that's more the word I would use is the hostility that I tend to get when, and I do a show where there's more leaning towards God as the answer and solution, it kind of strikes me as a little odd.

You know, you would think that people, you know, that are listening would want to explore anything that could possibly help them personally. But there's some kind of resistance sometimes to it. And I'm not exactly sure what the motivation is behind that other than maybe just really not wanting to go down that path personally for some people. And that's probably what the problem is there, you know, the reasoning behind that. Because this is something I've had to deal with, you know, the whole time is this is something that's helping people.

Why would you not recognize this as a valid method? I can show you over and over and over. If somebody truly wants this experience to stop and get their lives back, if there's something here that works. Why wouldn't you attempt using it? Why wouldn't you allow somebody else to know about it? Why would you want to hide this and fight

against it and try to say it's crazy and try to, you know, demean it? Why would you want to do that in a realm that has so many people involved that are actually hurting and had their lives destroyed? I don't understand

that, you know? I don't know if it's just that they have their own agenda and this just doesn't fit their agenda. You know, with the disclosure that's coming about right now, that's only supported this work that I've done. And I never expected to see all of that come together 20 years ago. But, you know, last year when I was at the Lufon Symposium in Philadelphia, that was the first time I got to see in person and listen to Louis Elizondo from ATIP and giving his findings on what

the government had come across. And I'm sitting there with two other pastors at the Michan Symposium, both from New York. They came down and I had a chance to sit with them at Louis' talk, the Friday night keynote speaker talk that he did. And as I'm sitting there listening, the what Louis Elizondo is sharing about what the government found and what they were trying to explain what it was. I'm sitting there going, you know what? What they're describing here, and he talks about it, is these events, they call them UAPs now, unidentified aerial phenomenon. These UAPs, when they happen, they do something to the environment that is traceable.

It leaves a signature, is what he was saying. And they're able to record that change in the environment signature when our true UAP is experienced. and what they're describing as the signature is the same thing as you would experience in a time space distortion. And I'm sitting there and I'm listening to him trying to explain this, you know, in real simple terms so people can understand it. And it finally came to me what he was describing. I wrote it on a napkin I have there at the table and I handed it to the two other pastors. And both of them, their eyes just got big as pieplates and both agreed, yeah, this is what this is. And it was amazing, you know, that what he was describing is something that Christians already know.

And what he's describing that these objects, the signature to these objects leave is what you would, what you would most likely have if you had an angelic being. manifesting in the physical realm. Okay? The best example I've come across for describing that was in one of my early mentors books, Dr. David Allen Lewis, UFO in time delusion. He's got a chapter in there where he tries to describe what this event is, okay, when something enters this realm and causes this effect.

because even back in the 90s, he was already seeing that this was not a physical ET that was coming from outer space. This was more of an interdimensional entity coming into our dimension. And that's more of the thinking that we're seeing now, even from the government, that what we're dealing with is an interdimensional craft, interdimensional whatever coming in into our realm, coming from the other realms of this realm. and it leaves a signature when it does. Well, that's the same thing he was describing in there in this chapter of his book called Flatland on if we lived in a two-dimensional realm,

what a third-dimensional being entering our realm would leave, the footprint it would leave. And it's the same exact thing. So the belief is, is what we're seeing here is a temporary manifestation from an interdimensional realm. And the signature it leaves is a time space distortion, a bubble of time space distortion.

Anybody or anything in close proximity of this time space distortion experiences something, okay? It experiences that signature. And then I got to thinking about that, and I'm thinking, you know what, I've heard this before. And I went back and looked at Jenny Randall, a British researcher back in the 90s, wrote on this phenomenon.

And she had come across cases where people had talked about this experience. And she titled it The Oz Factor. And if you looked that up the Oz Factor in relation to UFOs, what you'll see they're talking about here, and I've actually interviewed people that have had this Oz Factor during the experience, the UFO sighting experience, where when they're in proximity of this UAP event of one of these, a real UAP, not a just misidentified object, you know, a bird or plane or whatever, but a real event,

when they're inside, close enough to that event, everything stops. There's no sound at all. They can be in an environment to where there was lots of noise and all of a sudden there's no sound. It's like everything comes to a standstill. And that's that time space distortion that they're talking about, the signature of a UAP event. Okay. And I'm seeing this.

It's been going on. They've known this for some time. They've never been able to put it all together. So whatever these crafts that these Navy jets are seeing, you know, whatever that is, is most likely this. this same thing. This is a manifestation from an interdimensional realm coming to our realm,

and this is the signature that it's leaving. So all of this is pointing what the secular realm would call interdimensional. The Christians would call spiritual realm. So what it's pointing to is the same thing, okay, just in a different language, in a different understanding. The Bible tells us about beings that are able to manifest in our realm. They're coming from a spiritual realm. That's been recorded for thousands of years in Scripture. We're still seeing it today, but I believe what we're seeing is a new facade

that these entities are using. Because these entities, these are not God's good messenger angels. These are the fallen angels. And they come here as when they're perpetrating a deception on humanity. You're coming here in the facade of aliens and UFOs. They're giving the appearance, okay? They're giving the appearance of alien ships.

But this is all just a temporary manifestation to be able to perpetrate this deception on humanity. Well, your listeners are probably going, why would they do that? Well, there's an outcome to people that have experienced UFO, and alien abduction. And that outcome, that resulted from those experiences, we see in our research over and over again that any type of contact or serious interest

in the subject takes people away from the one true God. We see it over and over again. We see Christians themselves that have opened up to this experience, and it comes to where they doubt what God's word says, and they want to look in other directions. I believe what we're seeing here is one of the greatest deceptions put upon humanity in all of history, because what we're seeing here is this deceiving humanity into looking at another direction for their gods. This whole thing is creating a new religion,

and has taken them away from the one true God. The one true God who states in His Word that we have an eternal life through him and an eternal damnation without him. And I believe that these entities are doing everything they can to make sure that humanity doesn't get that blessed hope of eternity without. God, to get them to doubt that and turn away and be doomed forever.

But yet we have a weapon that defeats them. They may appear as highly technological, but I don't believe what we're seeing is technology. I believe what we're seeing is actually the ability of these entities. These are spiritual entities that have the ability to manifest into our around to manifest and appear as what they need to do, as what they want to do. It's not a technology. We can only think of it as a technology because we can't think in the term otherwise, but I believe it's just their natural ability is what we're seeing and mistaking it for technology. And they're using that idea to deceive us because that's what we accept in today's age. We wouldn't accept

the spiritual entity, but we'll accept the highly advanced technological entity. If it was a highly advanced technological entity, we would be powerless against them. But we're not, because the hundreds and hundreds of testimonies that I have over the years show that there's a name that defeats this entity, that one name, Jesus Christ, and a personal relationship with him defeats this entity. defeats his intrusion into your life. It actually have cases where that name being used in a sighting event where they materialize from that other dimension,

not just as an abduction experience, but a sighting experience, defeats that experience. There is a name that is above all names, and it's just that name and that belief in that name. that stumps these entities dead in their tracks. And that's a major red flag if you're studying uphology. Why should that even matter when there are so many other belief systems in the world with so many other gods that they have? Why is it just this one that defeats these entities? Because in 20 years I have not seen where the name Allah, Buddha, Krishna, or any other deity

works like this one. Yeah, you know, and I did an interview a long time ago. I think it was, in fact, I'm almost positive. It was episode 29 and I titled it, Bedroom Visitations. And I remember that because a lot of people heckled me. They're like, what kind of sick and perverted episode is this? But it was about a guy who is a Jewish Christian and he's married and living his life and he's pursuing, you know, a ministry. And he talks about one night waking up with these, I think he described him as these gray entities at the bottom of his bed, pulling him off his bed. And he's actually in the intro to the show. And he describes that in this experience, he was physically being pulled off the bed, but also at the same time he felt like something

was being pulled out of him. And that, to me, sounds like there's some seriously spiritual battling going on there. And what you're describing worked for him. He claimed the power of Jesus Christ over it, and these things fled. And so for me, and obviously for you too, we're kind of coming from the same theological background. When that happens, it definitely seems like what you're dealing with is a spiritual attack. as much as anything else. Now, we have stories of these things and people's experiences where it seems like very spiritual, but also very physical and very, there's, they're layered

experiences that people are having and stuff. And I think, if I remember correctly, it's been a long time since I've seen this video, but I remember watching a video of you speaking at a conference and the video cut away to an entire, family that was experiencing abductions. Do you remember who I was talking, I'm talking about here? Yes, that's the Aaron's family. Yes. And they were all experiencing abductions, right? Yes. Dan, the husband, Joyce, the wife, and the son and daughter. And actually, the daughter was the one that they first experience that they had recalled under hypnotic regression with Dr. John Carpenter, was seeing the daughter being taken from the bed.

And they've all had experiences, even the son and the daughter, through the years. And those experiences that they had were stopped by claiming the name of Jesus. Is that right? The first one that came to the truth was Joyce. I met Joyce some years into my research, and I worked with her. She had left her family and moved to Florida from Missouri, where the family was living. And I happened to stumble across her in Florida and shared the truth with her. And she was completely set free from these experiences.

And within a few years later, she went back to the family and shared everything with them. Dan, the husband, came to the truth and understanding. and the son also who I met. I met the whole family. The only one that never accepted the whole thing was the daughter, and I hope that someday that she will. So was the family actually experiencing these, having these experiences when you met them,

or at least when the husband and son came to knowing the truth, before that, were they up to that point still having these experiences? actively? Not actively, occasionally. Joyce was more than the rest of them. They had actually been recorded on sightings, the sighting show and the A&E channels. There were two different shows that used to show every year. And when they talked about abductions and UFOs, when they got to abductions. They always use the Aaron's family. And that's the clip that you saw was taken from the sighting show. I got permission to use that. And every year I used to watch this show and it was a repeat of the same show every year. And that was the family I used to see. I never expected I would

ever run into them in any way. And then the sad thing is, is here we have the ends of the story, their family story, but nobody wants to see the end of it, you know. If they only show the part of where they were actually having experiences, I'd never had anybody able to put together and say, here's the end of this story. These people were set free from this experience. So they were used as examples in the beginning, but never given the opportunity to show where the story ended up in the end,

where they were all free from this experience, It's all with a daughter. Wow, that's interesting, actually, because it kind of follows the pattern of what you were talking about before with the Mufon investigators that you approached. They're all for you going into it, but they were kind of standing away from it. And the production company for the TV show apparently did the same thing. Sure. You'll see in the movie Alien Intrusion that was done last year with Gary Bates and I, you'll see Joyce actually in that movie. if you get a chance to watch it.

She gives her testimony in there. Okay, great. Yeah, we'll have to check that out. And, you know, it's just one of those things where with dealing with these topics and stuff, the way I personally approach it is I really do try to come in with an open mind. And I like to hear everybody out and everybody's experiences and what's what, you know. And from there, you draw conclusions and the audience hopefully makes up their own mind as to what they believe. you can't really force feed anybody into believing certain things. It has to be something they're

willing to do and go there. And so I just kind of like presenting different viewpoints and stories and letting the audience decide what they feel is in the realm of possibility, you know? And it's a beautiful thing in the sense that, you know, truly people can't be forced to believe anything. You could certainly try manipulating people into believing things, But to force an idea upon their minds is something that you really can't do. And so that's why I just, I really enjoy having people like you on to present, you know, another side of the story. And the fact that you are a Mufon investigator to how this all came about for you is I find

very interesting because it's not something you set out with on an agenda to do, but rather you just kind of fell into this and you just let the, the information lead you to where it led you. And it led you to this point. Exactly. I don't bring a theory that I have. I bring evidence is what I bring. And I try to show that I'm not, this is not me coming up with some crazy idea. I didn't ask for this at all. This wasn't where I expected to be 20 years ago, you know, in UFO research. I'm glad I am here, but it's not what I actually expected to be doing. I've taken a lot of flack over the year. you know, from peers, like I said, I call it the unwanted piece of a UFO puzzle. And the thing is, you know, today I'm the national director for South Korea, representative for Mufon.

I'm on the inner circle of Mufon. And also, I've had the opportunity to talk to the head leaders in Mufon and share my research. Even the international director had a chance to give the whole spiel to him. him last year. And he was very understanding of that. And he just says, we've got to find a way that's a way to present this that's just not going to upset everybody, but the way that we can present it and they'll take an honest look at it. And that's something I'm working on now. And I'm hoping I can do that with the book. There are a lot of members in Mufon that I've met over the years and talked to personally that do understand the work that I have found and agree to

the work that I have found. They're just not open or to the point where they want to have, you know, the hatred come against them and the positions that they're in. But there's a silent minority in Mufon that they support the work that I do. And that's why I stay with Mufon, not just because of them supporting the work, but because if you're going to do legitimate research, you need to have a legitimate foundation to do the research. One, it's going to be accepted by peer review. And I think MoFind gives us the best standard for that. You know, they have a methodology that they set in place,

and it's what I did to work by. And that's what I try to stand by. So, you know, because they don't support fully what I do and what I have found, I don't just give up on them. Because if other people out there are looking to get into you, UFO research, I would say get involved with Mufon. They'll get you a good foundation on how to do scientific research and how to do honest research. It'll give you an easy foundation on how to get started and give you guidelines to work by. So in that aspect, I truly support Moufan in every

chance that I get. I encourage people to use their teachings and their foundation to be. be able to get started. Yeah, and what, I forget who, or what his exact title is, but the person you were referencing a few minutes ago about, you know, saying he'd like to get this information out to people just having to figure out how to do it, I think that's very important to acknowledge is that you, you want to present this kind of information in a digestible way where people are more inclined to receive it than reject it, you know? If you were to just kind of throw everything out their front of their face and just kind of be real aggressive about it, people may be quicker to turn you off. And that's obviously not the goal. You want people to hear you out. And so I think

it's very important to find a way to present this in a way where people are willing to more than likely digest it mentally and see what conclusions they come to. And I'm glad that you're working on that yourself. Joe, before we get out of here, I just wanted to let you know that I am extremely disappointed that you didn't tell me you were in Philadelphia last year. I'm in Philly. Yeah, that was a good trip. That was a very good conference. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what, Joe, if you are stateside again and you're in my area, just please shoot me a message. I'd be happy to meet up with you sometime. Oh, sure. I'd love to. Yeah, I didn't realize that's where you were at. otherwise I would have a hit put a hit out there to have you, you know, get together for dinner or something.

Oh, for sure. I would have cleared my schedule for sure. But yeah, I'm sure our paths, you know, can cross down the road and stuff. Life is still long and we got plenty of things to do. So I'm sure our paths can cross at some point. But, Joe, before we do get out of here, though, I want you to give you, I want to give you a chance to let everybody know where they can find your stuff, your YouTube channel, maybe contact info, things like that. Okay. I have a website that's up, been up for some time. I haven't had a chance of update it too much, but it still stands at most of the information is there and still valid. That's C.4Rsearch.com. C.E. the number four research.com.

And I have a C.E4 Research Facebook page. You can find me on there and talk to me pretty regular on there. I stay active on it. What else? I've got my email. You can contact me with CE4 research or CE4 president at yahoo.com. That's my email. Feel free. Anybody, shoot me an email, catch me on my Facebook page. I'll talk to you. That's what I do. I'm trying to help people. If you have a testimony to what I've been talking about here, if you've been able to stop these experiences and the name and authority of Jesus Christ, I'd love to have your testimony because I share these testimonies. That's what our work is to share these testimonies

so that I can say to the unbelieving realm of the UFO realm, how many testimonies is it going to take before you see that this is real? I can hand them those testimonies. Like I said, I've got about 150 of them on my website. I've got over 100 coming in the book that I've never shared before, and I still get them coming in every week. sometimes one a week, sometimes two or three a week.

So the more shows I do like this, the more testimonies still come in. So the evidence is there. And it's not about trust me, this is what I found. No, it's trust the evidence. It's what the evidence says. Okay. I tell you, don't trust me. Because I don't know you.

You don't know me either. But trust the evidence because the evidence was found doing proper research and honest research. Yeah, absolutely. And I encourage anybody out there that has information that they'd like to share with Joe, contact him and share your experience with him and stuff. I'm not trying to hoard all the stories for the show or anything like that. I mean, if you feel like Joe's platform would be a great opportunity for you to share through his books or whatever, please reach out to him and share and converse with him

because I can share with the experience. When I first reached out to Joe, he responded right away, and he was, very personable. And so you don't have to worry about that. He's not standoffish. He's very willing to communicate with people. And so, Joe, I really appreciate coming on the show and sharing what you did and letting people know where they can find you. Well, thank you for the opportunity to share. You know, I'm sure you've got another group of listeners out there that this is going to be new to. So I'm glad for that opportunity to share this unwanted piece of the puzzle. And, you know, once you hear it, you can't make it go away. It's always going to be

there in your mind. So it gives people an opportunity to honestly look at the phenomenon, looking at both sides of a coin, not just one. Absolutely. And I think to end the episode, we're going to end it with some audio from that family that Joe is referencing and a little bit of their story on how they started experiencing what they did. Ordinary everyday people that this has happened to. And it can happen to anybody. I didn't want to believe that it happened to me, but it did. Joyce Arons and her family believe that what happened to them was not an isolated incident. One highly controversial study conducted by the Roper Pull suggests that hundreds of thousands,

even millions of Americans, have memories that indicate that they may have been kidnapped by aliens. Abduction researchers believe these abductions happen generation after generation. as this family from West Plains, Missouri can attest. Their story starts one evening in the fall of 1976 in the presumed safety of their home. I remember just lying there, trying to relax. I'd open my eyes, I'd seen a red light flowing across the ceiling, which it almost looked like the Aurora Borealis.

Dan and Joyce Aaron say the room was dark except for the unusual light. unusual light, which they describe as about four or five feet in diameter. They say it hovered over the baby's crib at the foot of their bed where their one-year-old daughter Heather slept. Dan says that when he tried to get up, he found himself immobilized. That was the most frightening feeling I guess I've ever had my whole life as not being able to move. I was screaming for him to help me because I couldn't move. and I didn't know that he was paralyzed too

and we both set up in the bed at the same time I said what the hell was that? The incident was over in what seemed like an instant. The baby was standing up in her crib looking dazed but unharmed. Dan and Joyce thought they had just shared a scary dream. That is until 1992, 16 years later. Dan, a computer technician, was working at his keyboard when suddenly he was seized by panic.

I immediately thought I was having a heart attack because I started sweating real bad. My ears were ringing. It was a real tight feeling in my head. Dan was rushed to the emergency room where doctors ran tests and ordered x-rays. When the results were in, they concluded that Dan had suffered

an anxiety attack and sent him home. But the symptoms persisted. To see him like that was devastating. He couldn't leave the house. He was so scared. After six weeks of constant fear, Dan sat down in front of the TV trying to relax. He turned on a movie that happened to be about alien abductions. Dan experienced a sudden revelation.

There was one part in that movie that this little creature, whatever, was kind of peeking out from around the door, and it was in the dark and the shadows, you know, and everything. and I immediately just my heart started racing and I just kind of completely went out of it again. Dan wondered. Was his anxiety somehow related to the subject of the movie? He later chanced upon another television show about alien abductions and watched an interview with therapist John Carpenter,

the National Director of Abduction Research for the Mutual UFO Network. Dan immediately contacted Carpenter for help. He suffered from a panic disorder at that point in time, and he had flashbacks and nightmarish images of these beings, but didn't understand what was going on and needed some relief. Dan agreed to an on-camera hypnosis session with Carpenter, during which he revisited that memorable night in 1976, the night he saw the red light over the baby's crib.

This time, under hypnosis, he remembers more. He recalls cowering in the core of his... bed as he watched alien beings take his daughter Heather from her crib. He went to the crib. He went to the crib. He went to the crib. Big trap. Uh-huh.

I can't move. You can't move. I have any control over what's happening. No. What do you see happening now? Under separate hypnosis, Dan's wife Joyce recalled the same sequence of events. They both say little beings marched them outside. Together, the family was floated onto a spaceship.

I never wanted it to happen to my children. I didn't realize until later that it had. But when they took her, I couldn't do anything. Heather, now 22 and married, remembers a series of abductions beginning in childhood when she was forced to play telepathic games with the aliens. How do you play the game? If I pick up that one, he'll let me go. What does he tell you about that?

I pick it up, he'll let me go. The Aaron's family believes alien kidnappers have not only intruded in the lives of their children, but are now visiting one of their grandchildren. He calls them his little buddies that come in his room and play. He said he wanted to watch the ship leave. I'm not going to tell him that it's not real because it is real.

Skeptics would say that Dan, Joyce, and Heather could have constructed their stories together before hypnosis. But then they'd have to know how to answer the trick questions and the leading suggestions which I provide. Plus, there are many details they wouldn't know about that we would be looking for as markers for truthfulness and reliability with other abduct. with other abduction data. Researchers also believe abductees are sincere because of another consistently reported feature of abduction accounts, the insertion of alien implants. I turned my head to the right,

and this taller being came over. And he kept telling me that it would be okay that they wouldn't hurt me. And then it took this very long, long needle and they put it up my right nostril. And I close my eyes when I heard it crunch. And then I became very calm. Objects said to be these implants have been recovered.

MIT's David Pritchard has examined the composition of one of these reported implants in a laboratory and contends there is absolutely no physical proof of alien activity. If we don't find physical evidence and we haven't, then we have to lump this in the category of fairies, elves, near-death experiences, people report, or we're going to be back to the days of the medicine men running our society. With the help of hypnosis, Dan's anxiety subsided and he returned to work.

But what once seemed out of this world has now become a part of his life. If this is some sort of mental thing that's happening to people, then why aren't they out, why aren't the scientists or the doctors or whatever trying to find a cure? Well, that's the show, everybody. I really hope you enjoyed it. And if you did enjoy it, please share the show with your friends, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, email, Snapchat, TikTok. I recently discovered TikTok. I'm trying to figure out how to use it for the show. But apparently it's the rave amongst the kids these days. So if you're on TikTok, go ahead and share the show on TikTok. But until next week, friends, stay safe, take care, and remember. The truth will set you

free, but first they'll piss you off. Bye.