The Confessionals - 175: It Dragged Me Down The Hall

Episode Date: October 31, 2019

On Episode 175: It Dragged Me Down the Hall, we bring you a Halloween special! On this scary episode, we talk with Melissa who has lived through some of the most frightening experiences I have ever heard. It seems she has some kind of evil entity attached to her - for nearly  her entire life - and the thing has tortured her continuously. From covering her mouth so she can't scream, to lifting the bed off the ground and dragging her down the hallway repeatedly, this is a type of evil that will make your skin crawl! And perhaps the worst part about it is her son is now starting to say things that lead Melissa to believe he is the evil thing’s next target. Become a member: www.theconfessionalspodcast.com Subscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaI Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/the-newsletter Email: [e-mail] Facebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcast Instagram: @theconfessionalspodcast Tony's Instagram: @tony_merkel Show Intro INSTRUMENTAL: www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyub39AXxUw Show Intro FREE DOWNLOAD: https://bit.ly/2HxNcw3 Show art: Ricardo Chucky ( https://www.artstation.com/ricardochucky)

This was all circulating around the base that a giant had to kill, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, bony fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappeared. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing up this giant. With a giant move, he's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast. It spears, Dan, holds him up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face.

They basically decapitated. And I look over, and there are two, and they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed. It's bush, and I touch air. Couldn't breathe, and I couldn't move, because I know I'm seeing a monster. When all of this stuff went on, Jack's dad was always under the impression, And the less you talk about it, the less it's going to happen. I think when people are really, like, afraid when it's something really unknown like that, that it's easier to shut down than to try to, like, explore it, you know?

And when I had reached out to you guys, things just started going wrong, like, left and right, like, constantly. And it felt like I was, like, I was kind of losing control and, like, there was stuff going on with my kid and stuff going out with me. and I started having nightmares, like really bad nightmares. And so I was like, maybe I shouldn't talk about it. Maybe I shouldn't talk about it. August 15th, 2019. It's just a normal day. I'm driving my truck down the highway.

Nothing out of the ordinary. I get a text message alert on my phone. And of course, I wait until I get to a spot where I'm safe to check it. It's a text message from my wife. and she tells me that there's an email that I need to check out as soon as possible and that this person might be somebody that we need to bring on the show much sooner than later. So I opened up my email and I look inside and there I see the email my wife is talking about. Subject, I believe something has attached itself to me.

I get a lot of emails. And I get a lot of emails with interesting headers and information inside. As I read this email, it became more and more apparent to me that this was somebody that needed to be interviewed as soon as possible. Just like my wife said, what really sold me on the idea that the sooner we got this interview done, the better. was when I got to the line, quote, I was dragged right out of my bed down the hall. I'm scraping at the doors and walls and floor, screaming when I've flipped over

and up in the cathedral ceiling is the entity. Tonight, you're going to hear from Melissa, who has been haunted, her entire life by pure evil. And now her little boy is starting to show signs that he sees what mommy sees. Melissa, how are you? I'm good, Tony. Thank you.

How are you? I'm doing great. So we spent some time talking and get to know each other and stuff. And I'm really excited about you sharing your story because your story is seems very personal. And to be honest with you, it sounds terrifying. And so I know what you went through might be a little sensitive for you to share. So just take your time and start from the beginning with us and share with us how all this stuff started happening in your life. Because I think the background, the detail as to what was going on is important as the events unfold.

Yeah, absolutely. When I was around five or six years old, I started to kind of see people in a weird way where people had colors around them, which I think now you would probably call those oras. And around the same time, I started to have these sort of out-of-body experiences when I was sleeping, where, I would feel like I had woken up and I would sit up straight in bed and I would look around and then suddenly I would be kind of away from my body looking down at myself. And it wasn't like a lot of people talk about these out-of-body experiences like they can fly away and do different things. I was very much kind of in control of my body. It felt like just walking around.

It was sort of ethereal where it felt kind of floating. but it always seemed really normal to me. It didn't seem like a scary thing. One night in particular, I really wanted to go stay the night at my grandmother's house. The way that our houses were, my mom and dad lived pretty much just like a yard away from my grandparents. So their house was probably like 40 steps away from the front door to my grandparents' house. And I was really, really close with my grandmother. And that night, like almost every other night, I wanted to stay the night with my grandma.

So I asked my mom and dad, can I stay there? And for whatever reason, they said no that night. And I was like heartbroken over it. For some reason, that night I was like, I really need to go over there. I need to stay the night with her. It ended up being that they wouldn't let me. They told me to go to bed. And at some point in the middle of the night, I did the same thing.

where I sat straight up. I thought I was awake. I stood up and then I saw myself lying in bed and I shared a bunk bed with my brother. My brother's on the top bunk. I'm on the bottom bunk. And I see him sleeping and I'm sleeping in bed and I decide that I'm going to walk next door to my grandparents' house. So I leave my house and I walk over to the front door and when I get to the front door, I see a light coming from, like when you walk into my grandparents' house, the first thing you see to your left is a kitchen. And then in front of you is kind of like a hallway. And on either side of the hallway are bathrooms. So there's a bathroom on the left and a bathroom on the right. And the bathroom on the left, the lights on. And whatever feeling I was getting from that light was just terror, like pure fear, that something really wrong was happening. And I needed to get home.

I needed to go back to my bed. I needed to get away as far as I could from that bathroom. And so I'm in my bed all of the sudden, and I can hear what sounds like sirens outside. And I get up out of bed, and I'm really awake this time. This is really me. And I go running outside, and my dad is standing in the yard. And I said to my dad, where's grammar? And he gave me kind of a look of confusion, like, how could I know this?

Or at the time, I didn't know what the look was, but he told me to go back inside, which later on I found out the next day that my grandma had been taken to the hospital and she had passed away from an aneurysm. So I told my parents, I think, the next day what I had seen. And I think they kind of wrote it off as just a nightmare, something that I had imagined because of the trauma of the night. But the one thing my dad did say was strange, And I remember him speaking to me and asking me how I knew it was her.

And I just told him because I told you, I saw this light and I went over there and I was scared. So after that show thing, I started seeing my grandma everywhere. Like outside playing, I was a really lonely kid. So I didn't have a lot of friends. I would play with my little brother and my sister. But I would go on bike rides and my grandma would just be there. And I would go to school and she'd be at certain events and she'd be standing next to my family. And it was always so normal and I would mention it to my family.

And of course, like most parents, it was like, oh, you know, she's got an imagination. She's young. During this time that I had seen her everywhere, I was still doing the thing where I would wake up and I'd stare at my body and I'd kind of just walk around. There was a couple weird times where I would wake up, stare at my body. and then suddenly be completely in like a different environment. One time in particular, I mean, I'm probably close to eight years old at this point. I woke up, came out of my body, looked at myself sleeping.

And then I suddenly was in this like village and there were like little like vendors around and this giant jungle in the backdrop. And it was so real. I remember I could smell like life. stock and food and there's people walking around and I could feel like the air moving by me. And it was some sort of Western like Asian jungle. I have no idea where I was. But the strangest thing was I was standing in the middle of the road and a man who was walking perpendicular to me stopped in the middle of the road and turned slowly and looked at me

and said, you're not supposed to be here. And then suddenly I was in my bed again and I was wide away. covered in sweat. And I remember being like eight years old and thinking like what the heck just happened. That guy saw me. So shortly after that, I think it had to be that year or very, very close. I was either eight or nine years old. I woke up in my bed the same way that I had done numerous times before, sat up straight out of my body. And I could hear my grandmother calling me. And in my bedroom, I had this, like, closet inlet. And it was a large closet. And it was really, really dark inside, but it was totally open. And we had dressers that sat back into this

closet. And the dressers were the kind that sat up on feet where you could see underneath them. And, but I mean, it was dark. There was just a little bit of space, like a couple inches of space. And I could hear my grandmother calling my name from underneath the dresser. So I go close up and at this point, so much stuff had been going on since she passed away and I missed her so much. And I'd seen her everywhere and this is the first time she'd ever spoken to me. She'd always just kind of be there smiling at me. She'd never said anything to me. And so this like projection of myself goes to the closet and I get down on my hands and knees and I can't really see underneath there, but I can hear her calling my name.

and she reaches out her hand and it looked like her hand, but there was something not quite right about it, but it was still my grandma, so I was like, it's okay. And I get under there and this face that comes up from underneath the dresser to look at me was as if something were wearing my grandmother. It was like my grandmother's face,

but these sharp rows of teeth from ear to ear. And like the inside of a shark, maybe where it was just rows and rows of these like razor sharp teeth and it was just pulled all the way up from one ear to the next ear and these really, really strange eyes. And then suddenly I could see that her hand had like claws on the end of it. And all I remember was that her face came up close to mine and then she pulled me under and then I woke up the next morning. And so shortly after that, I started seeing, I don't know if it would be like, shadows or just kind of the outline of this really terrifying image.

And I would have nightmares. I would still see my grandma from time to time, but she was further away. It was strange. Like instead of being really close to me, she'd be off in the distance somewhere. And I would say the first time that things started to get pretty serious after I met James. I'd always had nightmares and I'd always felt like this thing was watching me. I didn't know how to

say anything about it or how to explain it to him and at this point I had never said a word to him about anything. And the first experience that we had besides this little thing, it's like white would be on or we'd hear the sink running and those were all things that we could write on. This first really terrifying experience that we had was um and these two were really close to each other so i'm not quite sure which one came first

but i was i was sitting on my couch reading and where i sat on my couch behind me was a lamp and a tree and directly in front of me was the kitchen and through the kitchen there was a window and in the window i could always see the reflection of the lamp in the tree and i'm looking at my book and I'm staring down at it. And suddenly I feel the strangest feeling on the back of my neck. And it wasn't like the hairs on the back of my neck just stood up. It very distinctly felt like fingers, like something touching my hair. And I don't know if you've ever felt like real, real like carnal fear where you can't move, where you're paralyzed and you're just shaking. And I couldn't even look up from the book at this point. Like, I'm shaking so hard, and I finally like got the guts to glance up.

And all I can tell you is that I looked through into my kitchen at that window, and behind me, the lamp was completely like overshadowed by this figure, this thing. And that you couldn't see the shape of the tree anymore. You could only see this thing that had to be behind me. And as soon as I saw that, James, who at the time, I think we were engaged, I don't think we were married yet. He screams from the bedroom where he had been sleeping. He screams my name. And I always thought it was strange because we'd been together for a while and I'd only ever heard the words babe or like little weird names that he would call me.

I never heard him say my full name like that, like my like say Melissa like that. And he screamed it. And I was up off the couch and ran into the bedroom and he is on the bed crouched down on all fours. And he's, like, terrified. And he's talking really fast about how the bed wasn't on the floor. It was, like, in the air. And I sat down and I'm like, tell me what happened. And I haven't even mentioned the thing that just happened to me in the living room.

And he said, I'm, like, shaking right now and talking about this. I have goosebumps. He said that there was this figure in the room and that it was terrifying. And it had this really strange face. And it was in the shadow and he couldn't see it very well. And he said, what are you? And this figure said to him, I'm an angel. And James said, well, you don't look like an angel.

And the figure got really close to James and said, how would you know what an angel looks like, James? And then that's when he screamed. And at this whole time this thing's talking to him, he said the bed was just off the ground. And when he described what this thing looked like to him, this only thing he could talk about were these teeth, these razor sharp, like teeth that went ear to ear. And at this point, he's never heard the story about when I was a little girl. And I still didn't fully, like, tell him about this. I just told him that I had had an experience in the living room and that it scared me. And so we talked about it for a little bit. And he was just like, it was a nightmare. You know, you were reading a book. You probably freaked yourself out. You probably heard me scream and got scared. Like, he tried to. to rationalize it in every single way that he could possibly think of. In my mind, I'm like,

I was starting to get a little bit more seriously scared about what was happening because my whole life I'd seen this thing and I just assumed, you know, something's wrong. Like there's something wrong. I had a nightmare as a kid and it has traumatized me and I've been able to navigate my life, just kind of ignoring that it's there and pretending I don't see that. So, uh, it's a, Couple days later, I'm laying in bed and I had a dog. His name was Zeppelin, the coolest dog on the planet. He would sleep at the foot of the bed. And at this point, in our very young relationship, we didn't really have a bed frame. Our bed was just a mattress on a box spring on the floor. And so Zeppelin would sleep at my feet. And like the only light in the room that really was around that you could see would be the light from my Xbox. And, think it was like a blue light and it would illuminate the room just a little bit. Well, I woke up one night and I had to go, I had to go to the bathroom so bad. And I'm just laying there and it was kind of cold.

I remember it being really cold, not kind of cold, freezing in my room, which is strange because this was like in the summer. And there's no way that at this point in my life I could afford air conditioning. So it was weird that it was so cold in my bedroom. And I like lifted my head up and I looked around the room and I'm like, man, cold, I don't want to get out of bed, and Zeppelin starts growling. James snored a lot, and he was kind of snoring, and I thought that Zeppelin was growling at James, but then I was like, I tried to like kind of sit up again, and I'm looking at Zeppelin and he's growling at the wall.

And then this dog, instead of staying there to protect me, yelps and runs out of my bedroom, and at the same time that he does that, these things come out. of the floor and the wall. And they were, there were three of them. And they were these tall, they looked like humanoid, I guess you could say. But they were just shadows. There was no, like, features on their face. They had extremely long arms, like long legs.

And it seemed like they just kind of materialized out of thin air. And one of them leaned over James and grabbed my arm in my leg. leg on my left side and held it down. One of them had ended up on my right side holding that leg and that arm down. And one of them came over and like kind of climbed on top of me and put his hands or its hands over my mouth. And I could move. So retelling this story countless times we've talked about maybe it being sleep paralysis, but I could move my foot and my hand and my elbow a little bit And I was clawing at James screaming my head off. I'm like trying to wake him up.

I'm like ripping his skin off of his arm with my nails, like punching him. He wakes up and he's like, what's wrong? And, you know, he's really startled and he like grabs a hold of me. And as soon as he goes to touch me, these things just completely disappeared. And it was almost like when they took their hand off of me, my voice went from like being muffled to me like actively screaming as loud as I could scream. And James is, like, screaming at me to calm down. He's telling me, stop, stop. At this point, Zeppler comes running back in.

And he just starts hugging me. I think he kind of messed with me because I said James, and I guess he thought I was having a nightmare because he said, who's that? And I, like, freaked out on him. I'm like, don't do that. Like, you don't understand what just happened. You didn't see that. And I started explaining to him what was happening before I get to the part

where the thing had its hands over. my mouth. James said it was really weird. It was like you were screaming, but like you were screaming really far away. And that's when I was like, yeah, this thing had his hands over my mouth. And I'm sobbing through all of this. And I was not like, and I never have been this kind of like person that just cries easily or gets really, you know, overwhelmed or emotional about things out of nowhere. And I could see that he was like frightened for me. after this happened, things started getting really bad as far as, like, things moving. I guess you would say, like, poltergeist activity, kind of.

We moved quite a few times throughout the beginning of our relationship, and that's just the way that it goes, like, with the military, but he was noticing things that, like, you couldn't ignore. We moved into this beautiful house, you know, in the same town. But we moved in. We were super excited about it. It was definitely a step up from where we'd been in life. At this point, it's just little things had been happening in our old house, like doors closing. Same things as before, lights flickering.

I was having violent nightmares at this point. And we move into this house, and it kind of slowed down for a little bit. and then one night we're sitting on the couch and this can on the copy table just kind of flit across the copy table and we were like okay not a big deal that was nothing the dogs walking around maybe he did it but zeppelin got back up on the couch with us and we're sitting there watching TV and james's work boots which are really heavy like steel-toed military boots just start swinging like flopping back and forth, like on the floor, smack in each side, like something would have had to be doing this. And then that stopped, and we heard the sound of, like, crashing porcelain in the bathroom where somebody hit, it was like someone slammed the toilet shut.

And the water had turned on full blast in the bathroom. And it was like hot water. James was very much of the mindset at this point. We're not going to talk about it. Don't know what that was. can't explain it so it didn't really happen. I have no logical explanation. And I kind of just went with him because, you know,

this is something I'd been going through forever. And I didn't understand it. And I was afraid. And it seemed like the more that we would talk about or the more upset I would get about it, the worst that it would get always. Even just the nightmares or just like catching that shadow, got to the point where I'd be driving around

and I would like keep seeing this shadow figure thing on the side of the highway. And like I would get so scared sometimes to drive at night because I'd always see it out of the corner of my eye. And like there were times where I'd almost wrecked my car. Or I just refused to drive at night because I didn't want to see this thing. And I kind of was going through it alone because it sounded crazy to me. And like James said, let's just not talk about it out loud.

These things won't go on. Well, at that same house, I had, surgery on my ears. I used to have really big gauges in my ears and I had to get them removed. So I had surgery once and that was like outpatient and then they had to go in and fix them again. They had to put me under to do it. So I had surgery. I went home. I slept through the night. The next morning I woke up and James left for work and I was awake. I went into the living room. I ate some cereal. I went back into the bedroom. My ears kind of hurt. So I laid down. And all of the sudden, wide awake, I heard this windmill, like noise, windmill, sorry, like sound. It was like this

want, won, want, want, want, want sound that just got louder and louder and faster and faster. and I was terrified. I'm like, what is this sound? And suddenly it was as if I were being dragged. It was like my bed had turned into a conveyor belt of sheets. Like, I was being dragged on my bed, but my bed was going on for miles and miles. And then it would stop. And then it would start again a couple minutes later.

And in between, I'm like, what is happening? Like, I'm awake. What is going on? I am getting more and more afraid. and then it happened again, that won't, won't, won't sound started. And I was pulled from the bed and I was being dragged down the hallway of this house. And in this house, it was all brand new hardwood floors, the kind that's like really lacquered. So it's super slick.

And I'm being dragged and I am grabbing onto the door frame. I'm clawing at the floor and I'm on my stomach being dragged by my feet. and whatever it was dragged me into the living room. And in the living room, I had these giant cathedral ceilings, and they were really high up. And whatever it was flipped me over and was in, like, the corner of my living room ceiling. And at first its head was turned away, and its bodies like hands and feet are clinging to the corner of this cathedral ceiling. And then its head just turns around to look at me. and it's the same mouth, these huge rows and rows of teeth from ear to ear in this really

terrible smile and the same face that I had seen under the dresser when I was a kid. And it came down from the ceiling and that like towards me and then I was back in the bed again. And this continued to go on over and over again. It got to the point where I called my mother in between. It stopped. I'm back in the bed again. it's not happening. I called my mom. And my mom is not a person that I would call for something like this. She's very much the kind of person that would be like, oh my God, are you kidding me? You're having a

nightmare. You're crazy. Like, to stop. I called her. And I was like, I don't know what's happening to me. I'm having active hallucinations. Like something is wrong. This is what's happening. Should I call someone? What should I do? I'm really scared. It won't stop. and she just briefly told me, you know, you should take some pain medicine and try to go to bed. It's probably from the surgery. Who knows what it's from? I'm like, Mom, the surgery was forever ago. I'm fine.

Like, I just need this to stop. I'm really scared. I hang up the phone with her and it starts happening again. And every single time I would hear that windmill noise, I would just be like, and I'm not particularly religious, but I would be like, God or whatever it is, just please make it stop. Like, don't do this to me again. it kept going on. I called James at work and I said, you have to come home because something is really wrong and this won't stop.

And each time it was almost like more real and this thing was like closer to my face. And it felt like if it kept going on, like this thing was going to get me. James, I was like, you have to come home. I need help. I need you to take me to somebody. I have to make it stop. This is getting out of control. and he said I'll be there as soon as I can.

I don't know how long that it took James to get back to the house, but by the time he got back to the house, I was legitimately catatonic. Like, I couldn't move. I had moved to the couch at this point because I kept, like, moving all over the house trying to find some place that this wasn't happening to me. And I had gone to the bathroom in my pants. I couldn't talk.

I couldn't do anything. I think it took James hours finally to talk to me. Once he got there, it had obviously stopped at this point, but I was, like, convinced there was something seriously wrong with me. I'm like, I don't know what's going on. I don't know what's real, if it's not real. And after that, nightmares just were completely insane. I was having night terrors pretty much every single night about this, whatever it is.

There were times where I think I was, like, found outside, like, weirdly just by myself. And we got, I got pregnant in that house with my son. And we decided we were going to move. It was time to, like, we couldn't, I didn't want to be in the house anymore. I definitely didn't want to have a kid there. A lot of bad things happened in our relationship in that house afterwards. And I don't know if those things are connected.

I just know that like my mindset in that house, I was like, we got to go. We got to get in a different place. We got to start. over fresh. We're going to have a kid now. We move into this house, this new house, this fresh start that we're going to have, and I'm pregnant. And things really started to slow down. There were a couple incidences of strange things happening. I would often hear walking around in the nursery that we were getting started for my son. And there were a lot of times where it would sound like someone was working on the crib. I came home and I thought that James had come home

and was like finally putting the crib together all the way and like checking it. And, you know, he hadn't yet. But I had heard what sounded like him working on it. I'm like, yeah, he keeps getting to the crib. This is great. And I walk upstairs and be like, finally. And there's no one in there. And it really sounded like people like somebody with a hammer or like putting like flaps together. I don't know. Something was going on in Jack's nursery. It wasn't anything. I had no, like, feeling of, I wasn't afraid.

I actually felt really comforted. I thought there were, like, a number of people. It could have been my grandma checking everything out, seeing, if, like, the changing table was put together correctly. My best friend's dad had passed away, and he was like a father to me growing up, and I'm, and he was a, I mean, he built everything. And I thought, well, that was probably him up there, making sure that I'm putting this thing together, right, because he'd taught me a lot. But there were just little things like that.

My neighbor, I had gone over to talk to her, and I was sitting down, and I was like, oh, man, it smells like a cedar chest. I was like, it is really strong. Is that like a candle that you have? Because it's overwhelming. And she got visibly upset, like tears in her eyes. And she's like, I don't know if I told you this, but it's my grandpa's birthday. And he passed away. and that's what he always used to smell like. So there were still like these instances of like strange things, but it was so apart from the negativity I had felt leading up to this, to the weird things that had happened to me.

And everything seemed really great. Like things were going well. I wasn't having these terrible nightmares in this house anymore. I was a very happy pregnant person. Like my emotions were really stable. It kind of like made it almost. where I could forget that these bad things had happened that these were things that I had seen, like almost like it was like a bad dream. And I go into my bedroom one night, and it's pretty

late in my pregnancy because I remember being really hard to move around. And James was already asleep, and I laid down in the bed next to him. And not even probably second later, I felt what very distinctly felt like someone sitting on the bed. And now Zeppelin at this point, had stopped sleeping in our bed for some reason and slept on the couch. And when I felt this pressure on the bed, like someone sitting there, I knew it wasn't him. Like, he clearly isn't on the bed because he would have came right up and, like, loved on us and, like, laid down at the end of the bed and made a lot of noise while he did it. This was somebody sitting on the bed. And I couldn't, all this that I couldn't breathe. I was really scared. I was like, oh my God, this is something

really bad. And so I buried my face in just. James's shoulder and I'm like holding him really tight just hoping that this thing goes away and it gets really close to my ear and it whispers super loud in my ear and all it said was hello but I knew that it was whatever this other thing had been my whole life this thing that had been terrifying me I knew that's what it was and when I say that it said hello in the way that it said it it was really it was like very otherworldly It was like a whisper, but it was unlike anything I'd ever heard before. And I remember waking dreams up and I'm like, oh my God, something just said hello to me.

And he's just like, go back to bed. You're having a bad dream. No big deal. A couple nights later, I got up to go to the bathroom. This is like the night before I went into labor too. And I like got up. I walked to the bathroom. It's super dark and I feel something grabbed my hand.

hand and I thought it was James because it was really dark and when I felt this grip, this hand in my hand, I just got like over this overwhelming sense of like, oh, like I'm happy and I turned around to like give him a kiss and he wasn't there and I could clearly see in the moonlight like James is laying in bed. And I remember just thinking like I just had this thought in my head, it's going to be okay. You're fine. Everything's going to be fine. and the next day I went into labor. And after Jack was born, that's my son, he, things just completely halted at this point.

I would sometimes catch, like, I would see this thing or what I thought was the glimpse of this thing. There were a few times where I saw two shadows, like the shadow of what looks like a man. And I don't know who the man would have been. Like, there was nobody besides my best friend's dad that had died that would be of any particular. like, you know, somebody that I would see in the afterlife or some sort of apparition or something that would present itself to me. And I couldn't make out any features, but I knew that it was a man. And whatever it was would always be, like, kind of centered in front of this other thing that I would see. And, you know, like the glimpses were few and far between. But after my son was born, as he got older and he started to talk, he would say really, strange things to me. A couple of things that stand out in mind in particular was later on while living in California,

someone very close and important to me had died. And I went through a really, really hard time with it. It wasn't even something that I could talk to James about. It was really, really difficult. And it's going to sound crazy, but like I would try to communicate with this person. Because I was just, like, lost. And I was doing anything at this point, like, to make myself feel better, to understand why this thing had happened and why this person was gone. And I started, I had had a dream about him.

And I had asked him, like, are you okay? And he told me, you know, I'm okay. I just, I have to walk. And I asked him why. And he said, I don't know. I just have to walk until I figure it out. And, you know, like the interaction I had with him, whatever it was. it just left me with more questions and I spent a lot of time thinking about it.

And at one point, a friend of mine had brought up maybe a spirit board and maybe it would make me feel better if I tried to do this. And I did it with her and we had an experience with it. I don't know so much if it was, I always think like maybe those things are like subconsciously you're sending energy to make this thing move to say the things you want it to say. but, you know, it gave me some answers. And then unknowingly and stupidly, I brought it back into my house from her house. And I no sooner put it on the table that my son upstairs started screaming.

And I go upstairs and Jackson's legs are like through the slats of the crib. And I remember being like, what in the world? And I pick him up and I'm like, okay, that thing needs to go, needs to get out of my house. And this thing was like, we made it out of cardboard and, and like markers and I'm pretty sure she used her husband's dip can as like the centerpiece

or I forget what you call the whatever you call that middle thing that you move around she made it out of like a dip can and like cellophane or something so this is like the most homemade thing which later on like after researching it I found out can actually be worse

or like I guess better if you want it to work but when it's something that you make it's better than if I were to go to the store and buy something like that. Right. But, so I got rid of that. I'm like, that's got to go. We got to get that out of the house.

Like, I don't know if these things are related or if my kids, like most kids sometimes roll around and just got stuck and it just was a coincidence, but I didn't want to mess around with it. So it was gone. We didn't talk about it. As soon as Jack started being able to talk, he started saying these really strange things, like, and actually have a conversation. Like, think probably around like two, two and a half.

when he could say sentences. He would talk about this pink door in his room that would, and he'd point over to, like, the corner of the room, and he would talk about this, like, pink window or door that would open up, and he'd say that this thing, this, like, machine or something would come through. And we were just like, this is so weird, and we thought just normal two-year-old stuff, but he would like say that he saw like these shadow things or he would describe things and and like in my mind when he would say them I'd be like oh I've I've like I know what he's

talking about like I remember seeing things like this he would talk about getting up and like moving around but then he was in his bed um probably the weirdest thing he ever would talk about was oh you know he would often talk about North Carolina when we were in North Carolina when we were in North Carolina, Jack was a baby. And he would talk about seeing himself in this swing, like swinging back and forth. And he would talk about seeing himself in his crib, or sometimes he would mention his other mother, which I thought was really strange. Like, he would talk about where he was before he came to be with me. And that pink door again, like, that was a huge reoccurring theme that he would see this pink door open up in his room. And then he started

having what I would assume to be night terrors where he would wake up or not wake up, he'd be asleep screaming. And I mean, you have a kid, so you probably know that cry, that cry where you're like, oh my God, something's wrong. And I would hear this happen in the other room and I would get up and I would run in there. And I'm like trying to wake him up. And it would be so bad, like he'd be screaming and sobbing and hyperventilating. And when Jack cries really hard, he gets these like hives on his food.

and he'd be like broke out in these hives and he's just like blood-curdling screams. And I'm screaming at him to wake up because I'm terrified at this point. Like, oh my God, he's not awake. Like the first time I realized he's not awake. This is him asleep dreaming. And I know what this is like. So I'm trying everything I came to wake him up. There were times where like, I mean, we're like screaming at him.

James and I both like, Jack, Jack, wake up. Like, it's okay, wake up. And we'd finally get him awake. and then he would be inconsolable for some amount of time after this happened. And I would have to, like, rock him and tell him, like, it's okay, you're at home, you're with me. And there were just times where, like, I remember specifically a time where he was, like, terrified of James, which, I mean, James's great dad. Like, there's nothing that he would ever have to be afraid of him. I think it just was the fact that James was, like, he's a big guy.

He's, like, six foot, like 200 and some pounds. Like, he's a big dude. And I think that just that was scared. to Jack. Like, he didn't really know where he was and, like, couldn't make sense of the things around him. And, like, it was just insane. And he, he has those still to this day. He still has. They're very few and far between. But when they happen, I'm, like, very much reminded of the bad dreams that I have. And for me, once Jack was born, like I said, things had gotten a lot better. I've seen things here and there, but nothing that, whatever that demon-like thing was, has not interacted with me.

The few times I've seen it, there was always the man standing in front. I always kind of got this feeling like whatever that is or whomever that is protecting me. But these night tears that Jack has and this unbelievable, like, he says the most profound things. This kid can look at something and build up. out of Legos, like the most astounding things you've ever seen. And I came downstairs. And he had recently built what looked like the Mars rover. And he was talking about it.

I came downstairs and I just obtainedly said, is that another space shuttle? And he said, no, mom, it's the terminal to heaven. I don't talk about religion with my son. I'm not religious whatsoever. I don't even know if I believe in anything except for science. So for Jack, like the very few questions he's had. about that. I'm like, you can talk to your dad or your grandma if you want to know more about that.

Some people believe this. Some people believe this thing. This is what I believe. He very, very, like, seriously believes in heaven and God. By no anything, he does not watch TV, hardly ever. He doesn't get on, the tablet is monitored. There's no YouTube or internet on his tablet, and he only gets it for like an hour on the weekend. He has his, what we let him watch is very limited. He watches story bots. And then I am like when he's watching television, I am right there. When I tell you this kid has developed this belief in the afterlife and God in a way that I cannot explain. I mean that. Like I, and he's so matter of fact about it. When Zeppelin died, it was really, really hard for me because Zeppelin had been there through every terrible thing that it ever happened to me as an

adult. I got him when I was 17. He was my best friend. He was my first kid before Jack. I had him before James. And when Zeppelin died, it was probably, I hate saying this because I've been through a lot and I don't want to discredit those things, but that was the hardest thing that I ever went through. and I was so mad because it was, it seemed too early. It didn't seem like it was his time. And I remember I love my son more than anything on the planet, but he just was so happy that next day because he's just a happy kid in general. And at this point, he's still pretty young.

And I remember being so mad at him because I'm like, how can you laugh right now? Like, how can you be so joyous when this is literally the worst thing that's ever happened? to me. And so James, you know, bless his heart, was trying to, like, I knew that I think he was picking up that it was really hurting me, that Jack was just like, mommy, like, laughing and joking around. And he said, Jack, do you understand what happened?

And Jackson said, yeah. And James said, do you know where Zeppelin is? And Jackson points up. And I said, what are you doing? And he said, I'm pointing up there. And he's like, wherever, where all the other people are. And I said, what people? And he's like, the people that I see in my room all the time. And.

Jeez. Yeah. And so when I hear him talk about like heaven and like this terminal to heaven and he talks about space and he wants to go to space and he talks about like these people in spaces if they're just real. And he asked me all the time like, well, what's going to happen to our body when we die? And he's, I, you know, I've talked. to people about it and they've said it's normal that around his age, around five, you talk about

these things. Like, they get really interested in kind of like death or at least like what life means. But Jack is so like beyond his ears with the profound things that he says about it. Like one day, he's like, well, what do you think happens when we die? And I told him and he's like, nope, that's not what happens, mom. He's like, this is where we go. This is what it looks like. And just like, all right, buddy, that's a beautiful thing. And you believe. believe, you know, if that's what you believe and that's what you know to be true, then that's what's true to you. You know what I mean? Like, I just try to encourage him that. It's okay to think that. It's okay to believe those things. And if that's what you think is real, then that's what's real to you.

But I mean, he just, for a five-year-old, the other, like, not too long ago, he asked his dad, what was your life like before you met my mom? And he told him, and Jack said, I was definitely happier after I met my mom. And when we, like, I asked him what he met by that. And he talks about this time before he met me. And so I don't know. It's just really strange. I don't know if he's taken, whatever he's taken on since I've had him,

this terrifying thing that was following me around. My whole life seems to just be gone. And Jack still suffers from night terrors from time to time. but some of the things that he says now, just like they make me question all of the things that I believe in. And, you know, like, I wonder sometimes if he sees things differently like I did when I was younger, he's kind of like doing the same things that I've done,

like getting up and walking around. Because there's things that he knows are things that he says he's seen. And there's things that he builds with these Legos that I, like, we just, I mean, even my dad, who's like the most grounded person, I know, he's like, Melissa, there is something very, very special about him. He's like, I mean, this is strange. Like, he's not just smart.

He is spectacular. And he's right. I know everybody wants to believe that their kid is special, but when I tell you that he builds these elaborate, like, machines out of Legos, I'm, it's insane the things that this kid can do. And I'm like, where has he seen this before? You know what I mean? Like, he can look at something once and build it.

And just that thing that he had said is the terminal to heaven. And he talks about it. And some of the pictures that he draws, I'm like this kid, not like recently he came home with this picture from school. And like, firsthand, I'm like, wow, he's finally starting to draw people with arms and legs. And he would not ever draw arms and legs on people. And I thought it was the strangest things. But now I'm like all excited about it. And I get to looking at it.

and outside of this house is this giant, tall, black figure with long arms and long, long legs, like humanoid looking figure. And when I saw it, the first thing that came to my mind was, oh, my God, James, do you remember the things that helped me down that night? Do you remember me telling you about that? That's that. But, I mean, instead of being like nine feet tall in my bedroom. It's taller than a house on my kids drawing. And I ask him about it. And he's like nonchalant. He's like, oh, it's just a drawing mom and walks away. But I'm like, oh my God, that's terrifying. It doesn't have a face, long arms, long legs. And it's staring right at his window. And around the window is like pink, like the door he always talks about. Wow. I know. But I just keep an eye on him now. Like I said, I'm just grateful that the things that had happened leading up to Jackson and have slowed down so much. I think after I had reached out to talk about these things,

I started having nightmares again, not quite as bad as before, but definitely the same subject matter that I was used to having. And I don't know if it was just bringing it up after like kind of closing it off for so long. But as far as interactions, I haven't had anything since. Just Jackson and his strange stories about the people

in his bedroom. That's incredible. Do you think that it's possible that your activity has slowed down because your son is now in the picture and attention is being paid towards him? Yes. So this is going to sound insane. And I hate, like, I know every person wants to believe that their kid is special. But when I tell you, like, since Jack, since been born. My anxiety has turned from, like, before where it was like, I get anxious about

things that people get anxious about and I have some social anxiety. Now, I am the most anxious person in the world because I had this constant noise in my head that says, like, you need to make sure that this kid is okay. Like, not even okay in a sense, like, oh, mentally and is he going through the same things as you are going through. It's beyond that. It's like this, there is something very important about Jackson, and I have to protect it. And I know that sounds crazy, but when he says things like this and like hearing my dad say, like he, you know, there's something different. This isn't like normal. Oh, this kid's pretty smart. This is like, this kid is, this is insane. I mean, the things that come out of his mouth are beyond a five-year-old's ears. And,

things that like I said, the religion thing. I don't even, that's so strange because I refuse to even read the books because some of the children's books that are about religion are so very obviously scientifically not. Like, I know it's like children's books are great, but Jackson, I try to kind of like, this is real, this is a cartoon. This is a book about space. These are facts. This is a story. This is a nice story that has a lesson, but isn't necessarily true. I don't want him to have a false sight. If he is going to be religious and he is going to believe in God, I need him to have a faith that's grounded in scientific fact as well. For me, it's like, I don't know whether God is real or not. I don't know what's real. I, these are my beliefs. I believe that there's probably something. I have

felt, I mean, the things that I've seen, seeing my grandma, there are, like, I have like scientific reasons for why I believe in ghosts. I have made logic assumptions in my head how these things could be real. But Jackson, his understanding of these things is so profound and beyond anything

that I could even explain to him that I'm like, yeah, whatever was going on with me, Jackson's got a whole different ballgame. I haven't even, I couldn't even begin to understand with him. Like it's something that I'm going to keep kind of like steps

back and let him come to me and talk to me about it. And whenever he tells me things that he sees, I never tell him, oh, you're imagining that. Oh, that's silly. I try to kind of like keep him grounded, but I'm like, buddy, if that's what you believe or if that's what you saw, then I believe you. Well, I mean, even if it's sublimitably, he must be seeing something in order to recreate what you know you saw on a picture. Now, I don't know if he acknowledges that he saw what he drew, but the fact that he was able to recreate it and then you see it and you're like, I've seen that before. To me, that says that he is seeing things. Now, how he reacts to seeing these things is going to be probably different than how you reacted. It seems like he, he's very, very much. He's very,

very curious. He seems like a very curious kid. And it doesn't seem like he's scared of a whole lot either. I know he has these night terrors and stuff, but this pink door that's popping up. It's interesting. I find the whole thing interesting. I find that I wonder what is going on with him. Is he having out-of-body experiences like you did? And if he is, where is he going? what does he see because he might be seeing things that he is now recreating with his Legos and his artwork.

I'm just, I think your son is fascinating. I think your story's fascinating. I think you're fascinating. But the fact that this isn't over yet, I don't think this whole story's over. I think it's really pretty much just beginning for your son. And I think it's really fascinating.

And to wear this, goes, I don't know, but I'm really interested in it. He, he, like, when I was so worried about him for the longest time because he was like an eye contact thing. Like, he would focus on you for a second, but Jack is always looking like around you. And so when I was a kid, I always saw people as colors, like I talked about earlier, like oras. Jackson, I always, he used to call me pink.

and that was the strangest thing because I'd only ever really told like one person about that and he called me pink right in front of them and they looked at me like, oh my God, do you think he sees things like that? I'm like, I don't know. I couldn't even begin to tell you because this kid just says the craziest things all the time. Today, even, he's in the living room and this kid says, sometimes I can move things with my mind. And I know that that's probably not true. but I asked him about it. And the explanation that he gave me, he's like, well, not here. I can't do that here, but I can't do it.

And I'm just like, you just said, like, is he having out-of-body experiences? I don't know. Some of the things that he explains to me that he sees, I'm like, there's no way he could see that. Like I said, talking about himself in the swing in North Carolina, that was probably the strangest thing because I'm like, he, there's no pictures of him in that thing. there's no way that this kid thought, like, could say that even and just randomly, like, in the back seat, talk about, he'd even said to me before, Mom, I was supposed to come to you earlier than I did, but I didn't. He said, I was in your belly, and then I wasn't, and then I was there again, and that's when you had me and I was born. And, like, it was so out of nowhere, I'm driving, I picked him up from school and we're driving home.

and I lost a baby before it drops in. And, I mean, it wasn't something, I know for some people that's like a terrible, awful experience and hard to live through. For me, it was like, it's okay. It's going to be fine. Everything's fine. It wasn't some like show stopping, life stopping event for me. So it wasn't something that he could have heard me talk about with people because after it happened, I had never really like brought it up again. when we got pregnant with Jackson, it was really kind of a surprise because I wasn't supposed to be able to get pregnant again.

And I was actually going in for pre-op to have a hysterectomy, or at least a partial hysterectomy. I went to my pre-op appointment, and for some reason, this nurse is staring at me. And she's like, I need to get a urinalysis from you. And she's like, I just need to check something. I want to check your protein, whatever it was. And she comes back in, and she's got tears in her eyes. And she brought the doctor in and he's got tears in his eyes. And he said, you're pregnant.

And I had been told for so long, like, that wasn't even an option that that was not something was going to happen. Here we are about to completely make sure that that could never happen. And they're like, well, you're pregnant. And I think I even cussed at this doctor. Like, what are you talking about me? Like, no, I'm not. I'm going to get surgery tomorrow.

So when Jackson brought this up, it was recently, it was like a couple months ago. and I'm just pissed him up from school, and he's, like, staring out the window. And I said, what are you thinking about, buddy? And that's what he told me. And it's just like one of those things when you don't really say anything. You're like, well, that's strange. That's really weird, you know. And he's always been kind of profound like that.

I mean, he's walked up to people before and said, you know, I would have a brother or sister, but I broke my mom's belly. But it's okay because she's supposed to have me. Like, he's said that to someone before. It's like this five-year-old. So he definitely He definitely thinks differently There's definitely something going on

I don't know what it is yet And I'm not really quite sure how to navigate it But I just want it to be I want to make it a positive experience for him It's funny because when James and I talk about it James, like he's more inclined to talk about these kind of things with Jack Like if it's not The night terrors are terrible and my heart breaks for him

But it's not a scary situation with Jeff that. And the way that he talks about this pink door and these things, it's like aliens. And so James has always been like, have you ever really thought about the things that happened to you and thought maybe that it wasn't this like demonic thing? It wasn't this ghost thing that whatever it was was your brain trying to make sense of some sort of alien thing? Because a lot of, like Jack's fascination with space is so strange. Like, not strange in a bad way. I hate to use that word because it sounds like. But he is obsessed with it. This kid can tell you about wavelengths and radiation and UV rays and white dwarfs.

And he can talk to you about the Mars rover. He can tell you what different planets' atmospheres are at five years old. And this kid is fascinated. And he wants to know every single thing he can about space. Every single Lego thing that he builds is like, this is a spaceship. This is a rocket ship. This rocket ship goes to this planet. And he makes up his own planets.

And it just seems like this weird, it took a different level when James said that. I think this is more alien than this is ghost thing. So at this point, we just kind of like, we're like watching the pictures that he's drawing. We're listening intently to the stories. I try to write down some of the things that he talks about, like the strange places that he sees or the weird things he says he dreams about. He very, very often talks about butterflies. Like, I've come in and he's been like, do you see them? And I'm like, see what?

And he's like, the butterflies. And he'll say there's butterflies everywhere. Or he had a dream that his whole room was full of butterflies. And that's like a really common reoccurring thing with him that is super interesting to hear him talk about too. I find your son very interesting. And, you know, you've presented different details to this story. And I'm very fascinated and very interested to hear where it goes from here, but also, like, how it all ties together. I mean, sometimes some of the things of your son saying, it makes it

sound like there's reincarnation going on here. And then sometimes the way you describe it, it sounds like he's being given information about things that happened before he was born. And there's other times the way you're describing it, it sounds like, like he somehow is able to really see and view these experiences. And either way, in any case, any scenario of what I just laid out, it's odd, it's fascinating, and I don't know how to explain it. You know? Like, it's really interesting. He's a, he's a very interesting kid. Like, every day, there's something that he says that just completely blows my mind. I'm I'm very lucky to be his mom.

And even just for the reason that what I went through was so terrifying to me. And it was something that I was like embarrassed to talk about with people. I was afraid of what people would say about me. I thought it meant that I was crazy. And then I was, I'm not, when I was pregnant with him, my first initial thought was, oh, no, there's no way I can be a parent. I don't know how to be a mom. I don't even know how to change a diaper. I don't even like children.

Like they're snotty and they have germs. When I was pregnant was probably the happiest I had ever been in my entire life. And when I say like overwhelming joy, like love, I remember being a person that's not religious, there was a moment where Jackson moved in my belly. And I felt, and I had this thought in my mind. And I thought, and I told James too, I said, this is love. I said, this is what it must feel like to see God. I said, you know, when people say that you couldn't feel that all the time, because it would burn you out.

The kind of love that I felt in that moment was like, I couldn't keep feeling like this because my body wouldn't be able to, like, I couldn't take this. Like, it would literally kill me to feel this all the time. And then I had him and like those terrifying things went away and some scary things happened with him. there have been times where those night terrors just terrified me and it breaks your heart to see your kid in pain. But to see some of the astounding things he does and the lessons that he teaches me and just like this kind of openness to maybe that I don't know everything because I do tend to think I pretty much know everything all the time.

And then Jackson every day teaches me a new lesson. And I'm like, well, I'm humbled now. Like this kid is five years old and just basically taught me a lesson about life that I think most adults probably go their whole lives and don't know. I mean, about being kind and about being patient, there have been times where he's been like, mom, you're not being very patient with me and it hurts my feelings. And it's just like, that blows you away to hear a five-year-old say that, you know? He just, he really is.

He's a special kid and whatever it is, however he sees things, I don't want it to change. I don't want to discourage him from expressing it because I know I felt really alone and I don't want him to feel alone. And I'm super interested to see where this goes because I really do feel inside of me like Jackson's got something to teach the world and he's got something really, really profound to show me at some point. I mean, he already does, but I mean, there's something major that's coming with him. And I don't know. I just want to be able to nourish it. I just don't want to stamp it out with, you know, that thing that people do where, oh, you have a really active imagination. Oh, what a lovely thing to think.

you know what I mean? Like, I want to know what, like, what it really is with him because those times that he talks about in North Carolina, especially, I'm like, this is not something that anybody would have told him. He spends most of his time with me. You know what I mean? Like, it's just me and him almost all the time. Yeah, definitely interesting stuff.

You know, I definitely would like to hear updates as time goes on as to how things are going with your son and you. you know, with the experiences that you've had, when you first started sharing the experience, the very first time you saw something crazy, which was, I believe, the dresser in the closet, the face underneath the dresser. Was that an out-of-body experience? Or was that something that you actually were out of bed physically to witness? So in the way that I remember it was that I got up, it was an out-body experience. I saw my sleeping. But I remember when I was leaning down underneath the dresser, I remember like feeling

the wood on my knees and like, like, you know what I mean? Like it felt very real to me. So I don't know if I remember it as an out of body experience or if it was. I just know that after I went under the dresser, the next time I opened my eyes, it was like broad daylight outside. It wasn't kind of like most of the time when I would have the out-of-body experiences, I would kind of go back into my body, if that makes sense. Like, I'd have to go back to my body and kind of climb inside of myself. I know that sounds really weird, but, like, I would just have to lay back down. And then most the time I could open my eyes a few times and know that I was back and then go back to bed. But this time, like, I woke up broad daylight next morning with no recollection of ever going back to

myself. You want to hear something trippy? And I don't think this is true. But I'm just going to say because it'd be good for a movie storyline. What if you never did wake up from that adibati experience and all this is still the out of body experience? It's so weird that you say that because they're like, so, you know, like, have you, I always say it's the glitch in the matrix. Yeah. But there are like times where I have that feeling where I'm like, so I would have, I had a dream when I was, I had a lot of dreams when I was younger about things that ended up, what, like, happening. And they were always like, not exactly what happened, but very similar. I had a dream that my brother was in a, I was 16 years old, I had a dream that he was in a car accident.

And there was like this really weird Scooby-Doo van. And on it was this cartoon picture of my brother kind of like, and sorry, this might be kind of too gory, but he was dismembered. And like, but he had this cartoonish, like, laugh on his face. And his head was kind of flying into this cornfield. And then so I went running to through this cornfield looking for him. And I came across just his head. And he was very clearly like under the influence of something.

And his head is not a part of his body. And I remember just like staring at it. And I'm like thinking in my mind at the time, this is, this isn't now. this isn't going to happen anytime soon, but it's going to happen and you have to stop it. And then I like woke up. And then it wasn't until way later. Like I'm in my 20s. I've already had Jack at this point. And my brother was in a car accident in a cornfield. They were all under the influence. My brother was found, he was found way later after they had already lifelined everybody else to the hospital. They found my brother and he had one of the truck doors over him. So all you could see was his head.

and when my dad described this to me, I very quickly like, rewound in my head back to that dream when I was 16. I know exactly where I was when it happened. And when that happened, it was really strange because it was like I, it was like in a split second I blinked and I felt like there was this whole other timeline where like, you know, none of these things had happened and that something was wrong and that I wasn't living in the right life. So when you just said that about like, I never.

woke up from that out-of-body experience and like I'm going to wake up at some point I have felt that multiple times in my life like this is the wrong timeline or this is the wrong like dimension or whatever I don't know it's weird that you said that I just said that before out loud like yeah what if what if this none of this is real what if this is all just like this big dream that I'm having well I'm sitting here thinking well I don't want to be part of somebody else's dream I want to have my own life you know I want I want my own story. I don't want to be part of your story. Yeah. Yeah. I want my own story. I want my own story. But, no, you know, you mentioned about the Matrix and things like that. I mean, it's kind of, you know,

recently I've been thinking a lot about the idea of living in a simulation and the idea of the matrix and what would that entail and how would that, you know, tie into these paranormal experiences that people are having and that I hear on a weekly basis. And, you know, when you have people like Elon Musk talking about, you know, how he believes we live in a, in some kind of simulation, and he believes it to the point where I just find it so profound, he, if he could have one answer, one question answered of all the world, of all the universe, Elon Musk, this very smart person, his question, the answer that he would want, or the question that he would want answered is what's on the other side of the simulation. That's profound.

That's profound. And terrifying. And I, like, looked at the moon and thought that. Like, the other night, I was like, this isn't even real. It looks like it's too deep. None of this is real. Like, you know, I've had those thoughts. So to hear you say that, I didn't know that he, Elon must said that.

Can you imagine? that's just, it's cool, but it's scary. It's scarier to think that it's a simulation than to think it's real. Because if it's not real, then what's it all for, you know? Well, I mean, if you think about what's real and what's not real and things like that, I mean, if we found out that we lived in a simulation, first of all, I don't think we ever will because if you just think about the concept of it, I mean, think about the game of the Sims that everybody used to play back in the day.

I mean, that that was essentially a simulated of life. simulated life that we create and watch it play out on screen, well, those characters never know that they're in a simulation. It kind of defeats the purpose. But even if we did find out that we were in a simulation, if I found out today that this is a simulation, I don't think it would change anything for me because I'd still have a life to live, whether it's a real life or not. If I decided to stop living this life, then I just essentially unplugging. and calling an end to the simulation earlier than probably it should have been. And so I'd probably continue to just live my life and do it the best I can and feed and live off of the emotion that

this simulation gives and just see where it goes. I don't think it would change much for me. It might change maybe theological viewpoints, depending on what is on the other side of the simulation. I mean, if you think about, you know, I know you said you're not very religious, but if you think about like the Bible and things like that and God creating man and all this stuff, I mean, essentially the story of the Bible could be the story of a simulation, right? I mean, it can be very trippy to think about. But it's one of those things where I think I've been thinking a lot about this concept and how it could relate to like abductions. Imagine people being abducted and these stories that people are saying that they were taken out of their

room at night and into another, you know, place and universe and then they were put back, what if they were actually being pulled out of the simulation, like almost like the matrix that are being unplugged and then being plugged back in? And all they do is, all they remember is the abduction part, but there's a whole timeline of them being unplugged from this simulation and then being put back in. And that's what alien abductions are. That's kind of trippy to think about. Oh my God. I never thought about that too. And that actually makes a lot of sense.

You know, like, oh, crap. Put them, plug them back in. Plug them back. Yeah. Like, what if these, these entities that we see are really just ghost shadows of other people that went through the simulation before us? Like, that's kind of trippy to think about. Like, we talk about residual energy with the paranormal.

What if it's leftover energy from a previous simulation? and that's what we're seeing. Or even, or even just like, I'm very sensitive. Like, when we lived in California, I would get, like, my body would start vibrating and I'd never been through an earthquake before. And I got goosebumps and my body's vibrating. I couldn't sleep. And I'm like, what in the world is happening to me?

And then suddenly our house started shaking like minutes later. And it happened again at the hospital I was working at. Like, I got the goosebumps and I started feeling this vibration before everyone else. And when I was younger and we only, had landlines, I would often be like, are you going to get that? And then the phone would ring to my grandpa. My grandpa would be like, get what? And then he'd hear the phone ring really loud. And I'd had, I had heard it first. And I think that some people are like ultra sensitive. You know what I mean? Like, you know, Jack with the pink door, like I think maybe if it were a

simulation, you know, and you're super sensitive, that's you kind of seeing through that, that a veil, I guess, you know, like looking past the zeros and ones and seeing what's going on on the other side, like barely. I think there are people in the world that are just that sensitive that they can see through to whatever it is on the other side, whether simulation or not, just that's what that extra stuff is, you know, that's the sensitivity, this like awareness of your body more than other people have, you know? You know, I don't know. And I'm saying, in here thinking about your story. And I don't know if there is a scientific explanation.

I know you mentioned about trying to view things through scientific explanations. How do you view the experience of being drugged down a hallway? I mean, that's something that happened. And that defies science and logic, to me at least. I mean, that's very scary. It seemed like there was something that had it out for you for a long time. When you described, when you were, I think you described being drug into like the living room and it was in like the corner of the ceiling and it turned it ahead and look at you, that's something that is very scary. So how do you do, how would you rationalize something like that scientifically or can you?

So the way that I started to think about it was like that whenever we have like people who through trauma or they or even you know just difficult times or they something hurts them they try to make sense of it in their mind and I always thought maybe this was just the way that my mind protected me or like it was whatever bad thing terrible thing that might have happened to me that that my mind is trying to manifest it and it's real to me and I'm trying to fight off this like terrible memory I've tried all kinds of different explanations for it like okay this is is just, it's real to me. I felt it happened, but it's in my head. You know what I mean? Like, I've tried to say that that's all that this was. But, I mean, at some point, like, those explanations,

you poke holes in them, like, well, James saw some things, and my kid says these things, and and I remember feeling this, and I remember, like, smelling this, and this wasn't, you know what I mean? it wasn't just this hallucination I was having. Like I remember the sounds and the feelings. I remember my hands hurt when it finally stopped, like my fingers hurt for me trying to grab onto the walls and stuff. And when those things held me down in the room, I remember like how cold I was.

I remember how heavy they were. And I remember being so scared, you know. And that kind of fear, I just don't think that those kind of feelings, those tangible feelings, those aren't things that just happened in my head. So then at that point, I don't have an explanation. And I think that's probably the scariest part for me is like, what the heck is this? You know, what was that?

Yeah. And I, when I sit here and I listen to your story, it doesn't seem like there's not really a nice way to kind of put it all in a box and say, oh, it fits here. You know, James was on the bed when it levitated. James saw something tell him that it's an, that it was an angel. And he says, you don't look like an angel. And it comes at him. Like, in the whole time the bed's levitating, that's James's experience. That's not your experience.

He experienced that. Your son is recreating an artwork, things that you saw hold you down. your husband is laying in bed next to you and says that he could hear you trying to yell, but it sounded like you were far away. And you know that's because it was covering your mouth. So there's a lot of things that are corroborated through other people directly or indirectly that definitely says that this is real and it happened to you. And in a sense, it's happening to people around you in one way or another.

I don't know if that's comforting or not, but I'm not, I guess I'm not really trying to comfort you in the sense. I'm just really trying to make sense with you for me how this all kind of comes together. And I sometimes I feel like when I'm hearing you talk and stuff, I feel like it almost sounds like you don't really want to think that it actually happened to you, that it just, you'd rather have an explanation for it or something. but from the outside looking in, it definitely sounds like these are experiences that you went through. Other people went through with you. And it sounds like, at least with your son, he's going through something. I don't know what it is. It doesn't seem like he's being super tormented or anything like that, at least at this point. But he's showing certain signs of oddities. Like that pink door for me just stands out in my mind, especially when he puts it on paper and draws it with the entities that you

saw. It tells me that there's something tying together between what he's seeing and what you've been through. And unfortunately for your husband, he's just a bystander and all this and he just has to live with it. What a lame Normo. Normie.

No, I just shook around with the moment. But, uh, it, yeah, Jack's great. He's, I don't even, I couldn't even begin. I just think about it and I'm like, he's the happiest kid in the world. I mean, seriously, the happiest kid. But you cannot phase this kid at all.

He's just like, it doesn't matter what's going on around me. He talks about this stuff like this is normal to him, doesn't seem to affect him. He was having trouble making friends, but I'm seeing him get a little bit better at it. And I don't know. I'm just keeping a close eye on his pictures at this point. Keep looking at it. Like, what am I going to see today? Well, I mean, his artwork might be a window into his mind, you know?

so encouraging him to continue just putting things down on paper and and seeing what comes out and stuff. I mean, and I guess it's important as a parent to not try to read into things too much, but to also not ignore the glaring obvious things that are right there in front of you as well. I know you said earlier that you want him to kind of almost feel like positive about these things and stuff. And I think that's a good way to go about it as far as, you know, that will at least let him feel comfortable coming to you and talking to you about these things. But, you know, at the same time, you don't want him feeling like if it turns negative that he can't talk to you because, you know, it's supposed to be a positive thing either. So just the openness,

which is obviously what you're doing, just being open with your son and allowing him to be open with you through these processes. And these are processes that he's probably not even aware he's going through right now, you know? Maybe as he gets older and stuff, he starts realizing that, you know, these things are happening to him and he'll be able to actually convey to you in better words what he's seeing what he's going through and because you went through it you will be able to relate with him a lot better than most people would and uh you know that's a good thing that's a good thing i think oh yeah i definitely feel like i try to be the person for him that i very desperately needed as a child and when he does these like strange things like i don't and i say strange again and i don't

mean that negatively. I love him for everything that he is, but I never make, it's never a big deal. I try not to make like big hoopla about like, even when it very clearly creeps us out. I'm like, we're going to talk about this later when he's not around because I don't want him to start, because, you know, I don't, I don't want to influence one way or the other. I just want to let him kind of do his thing and we'll talk about it. And when Jack is older, if he's got to talk about things or if he comes to me and ask me questions, I can be better prepared to talk them through it because I have seen things and I can say, hey, even when it sounds crazy, even when you think no one wouldn't believe you, I believe you. And, you know, some things have happened to me that I

can't explain. And there's been like little incidences, you know, there's a whole bunch of little incidences that happened as well. So, you know, I feel like at least I'm coming in with some sort of like basement level knowledge of what he might encounter later on if there is something going on with him, you know? And I wanted to tell you earlier, uh, you mentioned about this thing and what you saw and how the smile, the teeth and the smile went from ear to ear. And before we started the interview, I, you and I were talking and I mentioned to you how, uh, where I'm at with the show and how, why I do what I do isn't because I have this childlike fascination, this, this, this wonder like I once did. Like at one time when I started the show, before the show started, I was fascinated on a level

where it was like this wonder and mystery about all this stuff. And it kind of changed over time to now I'm putting puzzle pieces together. And the way you described the smile is what I told you earlier about how it's a piece of a puzzle. I've had several people on the show. And the way, that have described that type of smile to me before. There is a show called Say It With a Smile, and this guy talks about this entity coming out of a wall and this huge smile, and it was telling him to say it when he was trying to think in his head.

He was trying to claim the name of Jesus in his head to make it go away, and he couldn't say it. And this entity was taunting him saying, say it. And he couldn't. And then there's another one where it was called Terror with a Smile, I think it was called. and this guy saw this head appear and it had this huge smile from ear to ear on it. And those are two paranormal type stories, kind of like yours.

But then we had this guy on, I think the episode was called Lost in the Smoky Mountains. And he comes on and he tells this, it was about two-hour show of him sharing this night where he got lost in the smokies and the crazy stuff that he saw that night. And one of the things that he shared was coming across this creature that has, had these sharp, jagged teeth, and its smile went from ear to ear. And when he described it, it was like he was bringing brought to tears. And that sounds very similar and familiar to what you shared. And he saw this outside, and the way he described it, it was a very physical creature. He didn't call it a ghost. He didn't call it a demon. It was like a creature, but he couldn't put

his finger on it. He didn't want to say it was a dog man. He didn't want to say it was a big foot. it was some kind of creature, some kind of monster he saw out in the woods. And so I don't know. I have no idea. All I know is I'm sitting here and these are the kind of things that I find very fascinating to be able to hear people's stories and be able to just take little pieces of them and say, I've heard that before. And it may not be the same type of story. Like this guy's out in the woods and he's describing a creature that they saw and you just described an entity that you saw. but the similarity of the smile and the teeth, it's very similar. So I would actually, I'm going to go back and listen to that because you talk about it being a creature.

So I use the word demon because I don't know what else to call this thing. But it's weird when you said him calling it a monster because that's the word always, this like, in my mind, more than demon, more than ghost was monster. like this thing was so tangible to me. It wasn't like just like this image that I saw. This is like something I could smell. Like I could like feel sweat coming off of. You know what I mean?

And there wasn't a whole lot of like super detail I could see beyond like these claw like hands and you know, you know, barely like the features, the smile was literally the only thing that I could see. And you said like him talking almost brought him to tears when I, think about it. Like, I almost didn't want to do the interview because just talking about it, I mean, I'm sure you could tell in the beginning, like, I'm a lot shakier. I got a little more comfortable as it goes on by talking about that thing. Like, I will probably dream about it tonight. You know what I mean? Like, it's not something that I can ever wipe out of my brain. It's like always there. It's something

so unsettling and so beyond what my brain can wrap around. Like, it's always right there. It's like something when you close your eyes, you just always see it. You know what I mean? Yeah, I totally know what you mean. It wouldn't surprise me if you had, you know, terrible nightmares tonight because it sounds terrifying. And I hope I don't have nightmares from listening to your story. I typically don't have bad dreams. At fact, I typically don't remember my dreams. I pretty much sleep like a rock. But, you know, you never know. Listening to your story and stuff, I'm sitting here and just kind of taking it all in. And I was sitting here thinking, man, I wish I would have done this interview with the lights on. But now I'm already sitting down and the lights are off.

So it is what it is. Before I got on the interview with you, I went and bought chocolate cake because I don't really eat sweets. But I was like, I'm really going to want like chocolate cake or something after this. I'm going to need some sort of comfort food. Treat yourself. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what. Melissa, I really do appreciate you coming on and sharing this story. And I feel like I could just talk to you for hours about this stuff because I think that we're just scratching the surface as to your story particular. But your experiences and everything that you shared, I feel, are very relatable on many different levels to a lot of different things that are going on in this world. and I just, I find it very fascinating.

And I really do thank you for coming on the show and sharing your story. No, thank you for listening. If anything crazy happens with Jack that I feel like you would love to hear about, I will send you an email and share that with you, just, you know, to keep you in the loop with him. October 22nd, 2019. I get an email from Melissa. She knows her show is about to air.

And she says to me, So this was hilarious when we first discovered it. But upon asking Jack about it, he said the strangest thing. This book is a compilation of self-portraits the kids in his class were told to draw. The front is seemingly harmless. But when we flipped the page, we saw something pretty crazy. I asked Jack why it was there and who told him to spell haunt. He said the front of the picture shows him flying,

and the blue lightning he sees when he sleeps. The back, the message, was something he said he hears at night from the corner. We did not lead him in any way, and both of us chose to address it lightheartedly. He seemed happy to talk about it, but we contacted the teacher, and she said, She never saw him do it and had no clue it was there. If you want to see these pictures, head to the confessionalspodcast.com and check them out. On this episode, it dragged me down the hall.