The Confessionals - 238: Searching Skinwalker Ranch

Episode Date: June 2, 2020

On Episode 238: Searching Skinwalker Ranch, we have a two-part show. First, we talk with MJ Banias about his experiences on the Skinwalker Ranch. As a journalist for VICE, MJ was able to gain exclusive access to the ranch, given a tour, and had the chance to look around the property. After MJ shares his experience, we segue into a different segment featuring audio from a live video Tony recorded on Instagram several days ago, addressing the protests and riots over the murder of George Floyd. After the video was recorded on Instagram, Tony received many messages asking for it to be shared on this week’s show. The audio includes Tony’s personal story about an incident in college when he and several friends were profiled by a police officer who pulled them over. We hope the message conveyed in this video will help unite people as we all learn to see through each other’s eyes.BECOME A MEMBER AND GET ADDITIONAL SHOWS: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/join Subscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaI Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/the-newsletter Website: www.theconfessionalspodcast.com Email: [e-mail] Facebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcast Twitter: @TConfessionals Tony's Twitter: @tony_merkel Show Intro INSTRUMENTAL: www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyub39AXxUw Show Intro FREE DOWNLOAD: https://bit.ly/2HxNcw3 Outro Music: Propoganda - Crooked Ways: https://youtu.be/qM7OjwbpTEU

This was all circulating around the base that a giant had to kill, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, bony fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing up this giant. With a giant move, he's got a spear in one hand and he's running really fast. And spears, Dan, holds him up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face.

They basically decapitated. And I look over and there are two small gray entities. And they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed. I reached my hand into this bush and I touch air. Couldn't breathe and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. Yep. Welcome to the show. Everybody you're listening to The Confessionals. I am your host, Tony Merkel. Thank you for being here. If you've had an encounter or story like to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is The Confessionals at the Confessionalspodcast.com. That's The Confessionals at the confessionalspodcast.com.

Or go to the website, Theconfessionalspodcast.com. Hit the contact section, and you can reach me that way as well. Either way works for me, just get a hold of me. If you want more shows every week on Thursdays, we release a bonus episode to members-only. to the website. So if you want to hear those shows, all past shows and all future shows, go ahead and become a member to the website today. Just go to the professionalspodcast.com, hit the join button, and you'll be set and good to go. Now, this week, we have a little bit of a different show. We're going to be starting out with M.J. Benayas, and he is somebody who writes for VICE, and he did an article about the Skinwalker Ranch. He actually got a chance to go there and search it himself. So we talked to MJ for about 40 minutes. And to be honest, and to be honest, he's a lot of

with you, I wasn't sure what I was going to do with the second half of the show, because I always try to put out at least an hour for you guys. And I was thinking about talking about the, basically the new Roswell that we're experiencing. And not a lot of people are talking about it. And maybe I'll go into it on another episode. But I think there was something a little bit more pressing to talk about this week. And so after MJ, we're going to be transitioning into a recorded version of what I did yesterday on my Instagram live. I went live and I just started talking to the people tuning in about what's happening in this country. And, you know, I think we're facing a time where one day we're going to have to look at our grandchildren and they're going

to ask, what did you do? And where were you? And we're going to have to answer for that. And so underneath that idea, I operate and do things knowing that I'm not working for today, but I'm working for tomorrow. And I have grandchildren coming down the pike. They're going to ask me, Grandpa, what did you do? What did you say? This isn't the 60s anymore. Everything is recorded.

They're going to know. I want to do the right thing now for future generations. And so I had to do what I had to do. And so I recorded that audio and I'm putting it on the second half of this show. Hopefully you guys enjoy it. Hopefully you guys gain from it. And hopefully it encourages you to move forward in unity. I love you guys.

Let's get to the show. Okay, today we got a great guy coming on. MJ Benayas, how you doing? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely, man. So I came across an article recently with, you as the author. And it was about Skinwalker Ranch. And actually the article is called

Inside Skinwalker Ranch, a paranormal hotbed of UFO research. And you're a writer for Vice, right? VICE.com. Yes. Yeah. I write for Vice as well as popular mechanics. How did you get involved with Vice to start things off here? Sure. I've been doing writing concerning sort of UFO stuff for for a while now, probably five years, maybe four or five years. and I wrote for some smaller publications, Mysterious Universe, my own blog, that type of thing.

But I have to be honest, I had been pitching to Vice and other places for a really long time trying to get some more UFO content out. It's just more mainstream audiences. And it happened when the Navy came out and said, you know, we have this UFO footage and it's,

and it's, you know, shows some weird stuff. And the Navy was making comments about how it's, you know, legitimately a UAP, stuff like that. And I just pitched to, vice at the right time. And they were like, yeah, actually, you know what? Can you do this for us?

And one article became two, two became three. And then I now sort of have a mother UFO column, I guess, on on Vice. So that's how it began. And there's, there's a lot of desire for UFO content. So I think it just kind of all was pretty fortuitous for me. Yeah, you know, UFO content is very, it tracks a lot of people and, you know, having Vice actually going through the process of bringing you on and to have you write things like that. I think it's a big step for them. I mean, it's really good content. And I think people under, people like Vice, like these organizations like vice, these bigger organizations, they, I think underestimate how many people out there are very interested in such topics. And I hear it all the time when I tell people about what I do and stuff,

they're stunned that I have people that actually listen to what I do. And it's just because people who aren't in these types of communities tend not to realize how big these communities are. I mean, there's a lot of people interested in this stuff. When was, when did you get involved as far as your interest goes with this kind of stuff? Well, when I was in university, my coursework was predominantly in like culture, culture studies and critical theory and stuff like that. So really looking at culture and communities and how ideas form around them. And I never really, I mean, I was, you know, growing up as a kid, I was into sci-fi and fantasy and that kind of stuff. So I always had sort of a nerdy side.

But it was after university, I became an educator and a friend of mine who's a local where I live, his name is Chris Rikowsky. He's written a lot about UFOs in Canada where I'm from. He, you know, kind of said, listen, you should kind of get involved. This is a pretty cool subculture. I think you'd like studying it. And I got in kind of purely for academic reasons just to kind of look at. the community of people who are into UFOs, who experience UFOs, who investigate UFOs. And very quickly, I learned I knew nothing.

So I started reading a lot of books, started interviewing a lot of people. I became a Mufon field investigator for a couple years just to kind of get the different perspectives and kind of get my feet sort of wet in regards to the UFO side of things. And it really just blossomed into a larger research writing project. and I've been doing it now for about seven years. And that's sort of how it all began. Yeah, you know, and I didn't realize, you know, about all your extensive writing history and stuff. And I had, you know, when I was preparing for this interview, came across a book that you had published called The UFO People, A Curious Culture, which kind of just falls in line with what you just said about how you were just really looking into a lot of this different stuff for educational purposes. What's this book about?

the book was my attempt to originally paint a picture of what the UFO subculture was. So I went into it with like significant hubris and said to myself, yeah, listen, I'm going to nail the UFO subculture. I'm going to get it. So I have, I'm going to build a roadmap for for other researchers to have a place to kind of go to when we think about the UFO subculture. And as I started researching for the book, I realized that. that there's zero chance anyone can make sense of it. It's a very, very complicated subculture because it's not just about UFOs. It's about conspiracy culture.

It's about paranormal culture. There's Bigfoot cryptozoology, whatever. Monsters of various sorts. So you have this really, really complicated group of people who believe a whole bunch of different things. They believe in some aspects. they don't believe in others. You know, so the book initially was to try to piece together the subculture. And what it very quickly became, rather, was a project on how to, how do we talk about

UFOs and how do we talk about the UFO subculture in relation to mainstream culture? And what I argue in the book is you really, really can't. Mainstream culture hinges upon UFO culture simply because of how UFOs and the paranormal have sort of propagated mainstream culture through film, television, you know, other media sources, and how the mainstream kind of propagates itself through the UFO subculture. And people who engage in UFOs often kind of rely on mainstream tropes to, to tell sometimes their stories. So it became sort of this realization that the UFO subculture is this sort of symbiotic system that exists with mainstream culture, I guess. And ultimately,

creates a lot of problems for kind of both worlds. The UFOs and the UFO subculture really create a lot of problems from mainstream culture, like from all cultural paradigms, from capitalism to gender, to race, to even stuff like sovereignty of nations. So that's what the book kind of paints this, how the UFO world kind of problematizes. mainstream community. But on the flip side, how mainstream culture really messes with the UFO subculture and how a lot of the things people are seeing are very much related to mainstream culture and how history has gone and how technology has evolved over time.

So I guess to really simplify it, the UFOs and mainstream cultures and all that were kind of ghosts in each other's machine. And that's what the book is kind of in a nutshell really about. it's got lots of interviews, lots of interesting stories. So I really would recommend people go check it out. Yeah, absolutely. And you can check it out on Amazon. Just go to Amazon and search for it, the UFO people and curious culture. And I'll tell you, you know, you kind of hit it right on the head there because when you're talking about this kind of stuff, when I first got into it and I first started looking into this stuff, probably I'd say 2015, 2014, it was something that I went into

and I was really fascinated by this idea of Bigfoot. And so I really kind of got jumped into it with that. And I was like, are people really seeing this thing? But the more I was involved in these communities, the more I realized that it's really hard to peg down and define what everybody's about. And there's not a whole lot that everybody can agree on. Everybody has their own theories, their own philosophies. And I always say it on my show that I think a big part of it is people carry in their own worldviews into these experiences that they're they have or when they're looking into these topics and stuff, everybody comes from different parts of

life. And I think their theologies and their worldviews really do shape and mold how they view these things. And I always use the example of, you know, if you had an atheist and a priest in the same room and they experienced a paranormal experience, they'd walk out of that room describing something very different because they have different worldviews going into that experience that they saw that experience through. I don't know if that makes sense or not, but, you know, it's one of those things where I just think that we have a very big world, lots of people in it, and lots of people with different ideas. And so when you're trying to peg down these kind of different communities and stuff, it's really hard and they bleed together. There's a lot of people

that, you know, believe that, you know, UFOs are from the other worlds through aliens, but also that Bigfoot is an alien. And so it's like, you know what I mean? So it's just, it really bleeds all together and stuff. But I think it's really fascinating. I really think it's cool that you're a writer. I wish I could write. I don't. I'm not a good writer. So I love talking to guys who do it for living and professionally. Now, to this Vice article, had this whole thing start for you. Now, you actually went to Skinwalker Ranch. And I was telling you earlier before we started recording that when this article was released, it was the same week that I released two Skinwalker episodes. And one was with an interview, a guy named Ryan Burns. And he actually owns a property that butts up

to Skinwalker Ranch. And so I had him on. He was talking about his property and, you know, the things that they experienced there. But it's really hard to get on to Skinwalker Ranch. How did this whole thing unfold for you? Yeah. It's quite the story. And some of it I can tell and some of it just because of various like contracts I have with

the vice and something like that. I have to kind of be cautious. But it began probably eight months ago or so, maybe a little, little longer. the, you know, I was sort of put in contact with, with the owner of the ranch. And we, we, you know, I guess got to talk and I guess it's kind of the best way to put it. And we decided, you know, it would be interesting to do a story because no one really knows what's going on on the ranch. The most recent time was, I think, in 20, it was 2018 or 2016 when Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp went on the ranch to film the documentary hunt for the Skinwalker. But I think the biggest problem with that documentary was there was not a lot of new information.

It was all a sort of retelling of the book hunt for the Skinwalker from early 2000s. So, you know, I spoke with the owner and I said, you know, I think people really would like to know. know the work you're doing. And I think it's, you know, I get that there's some secrecy and some security stuff that's involved. But, you know, what's going on with the ranch and people want to know? And he thought it was a good idea. And he said, well, you know, let's, let's do an article. You know, you come on the ranch and you tell people what you see. And that's kind of how it began. We, we, it took us about six months or so to to kind of find a time that worked for everybody. and eventually I got to fly out, went to Utah, you know, got to hang out with the owner for a few days, went to the ranch, and just met the team on the ranch and got to kind of see the science that they're doing, which was kind of cool.

Oh yeah, absolutely. When you wrote this article, I was reading about this command center that they have. And I was like, wow, this is really cool because I wasn't expecting such a high technology facility that they have operating there because previous owners. And like you said in the article, when it comes to the Skimwalker, there are so many different variations of the story. It's hard to figure out what's what. And when it comes to the property, it's the same thing. Like I've heard so many different types of things and with the different owners. But these owners apparently are taking a very scientific approach. Yeah, he the current owner as well as his science team and the rest are fairly you know, they're convinced there's something sort of anomalous

occurring on the ranch. They would say they have enough evidence to say, listen we think something weird is happening but their project is not to go out and try and prove that it's aliens or its interdimensional entities or it's skinwalkers. They're

project is to simply observe the ranch. They've spent their time, their money, as well as as sort of their their efforts to catalog the ranch and the weird stuff that happens. It's purely observational at this point. And they would say, listen, we don't have enough data to come to any conclusions, whether it's paranormal or whatever. It may not even be paranormal. You know, one of the options is this is just some sort of odd natural phenomena we just don't know about yet.

It's just literally laws of physics we have yet to figure out. So they're kind of approaching it from a very open yet obviously, you know, skeptical and critical standpoint. No one is going to say on that ranch that it's aliens or anything. They're basically just saying, listen, we think there's weird stuff. We're just going to hit record and see what happens. And that's basically what they're doing. And their data platforms aren't just video. They have constant EMF and radio signal detection.

They're detecting aircraft over the ranch at all time so they can track, you know, what planes are in the sky. They're looking at, you know, tectonic vibrations underneath the ranch. They're looking at infrasonic sounds, a sound that we can't hear that's kind of moving through the ranch. They're looking at like transient magnetic fields. It's everything. Like they have literally said, you know, if something moves on this ranch, we are going to capture it. And that's the project, right, to see how many times they can capture things kind of occurring on the ranch. Yeah, well, I think that's really cool.

And you mentioned about the, you know, physics of things. And I think that the more we learn about quantum physics, I think the more maybe normalized this idea of paranormal might become. because it seems like on a quantum level, there are things going on that we have a really hard time understanding. And maybe this location is something where on a, the quantum level is starting to peek through where we were able to observe it. And I mean, I don't know. I'm not a scientist, but I try to understand quantum physics as much as possible. And it just seems to me, the more we learn about quantum physics, it might start explaining some of the experience. and things we observe on the paranormal level. What are your thoughts about the whole idea of the United States government being involved in this property? Well, you know, at this point, you know, the property is privately owned. We know that previous to 2016 in, I think it ended in 2012, there was a project called

the OSAP project, is advanced aerospace weapons system, something like that. I always forget the acronym. The Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Program or something of that effect. And it was a DOD-D-I-A project. And it was run through Bigelow Aerospace. And they were the ones who won the contract. And they were given money to kind of explore various euphological and paranormal phenomena. And Skinwalker Ranch was one of the locations that Bass or Bigelow Aerospace was involved in.

you know, so we know that there has been government interest. You know, I suspect that there is still some government interest. The government isn't involved in the ranch in the sense that they have people there working. But I do believe that they are probably still monitoring and they're still engaging in dialogue with probably the current owners. Because they did have, you know, some research sort of money spent on the ranch. I'm sure they're still kind of curious to see if it was money. well spent. So yeah, there is some government interest definitely in the ranch.

I'm not, you know, convinced it's like, you know, clandestine or anything. But yeah, I mean, apparently weird stuff happens. And, you know, I wrote an article a couple days ago, you know, Lewis Alizando told me in an interview, he says, you know, it's kind of the duty of the government to understand what's going on in its own airspace and its own territory. So if there's weird stuff happening somewhere in America, the American government's going to want to know and potentially get a handle on what that is. Yeah, it only makes sense. And I absolutely understand that. And when I found out that the government was involved with the property at all, I was really surprised. And, you know, kind of on my side of

things, kind of validates the interest that I have in it. If the government's willing to be interested in it, then, you know, okay, then it's okay to be interested in this thing because maybe I'm not just chasing a golden egg. Yeah. Maybe I am. Who knows? But I've always been very fascinated by this property. And just the fact that the government is involved in is pretty interesting to me. Now, the guys that were kind of escorting you around, I know it's the owner and I understand that his privacy needs to remain private. But there were other people that weren't so private in the article. I think one guy's name was Eric and another guy's name was, I'm drawing a blank now, but there was a couple guys that were in the command center with you and telling you different

experiences that they've had. And if you could, maybe share with the audience some of these things that these guys that work the property have relayed to you as things that, you know, maybe they didn't say it was, you know, paranormal or UFO or aliens or anything like that, but maybe they just found it odd. Right. Yeah. For the bulk of the time I was there, I was hanging out with the security, the head of security there. His name's Bryant Arnold. He goes by Dragon. It's a bit of a joke.

But they call him that sometimes because he kind of looks mean and scary. But he's a really nice guy. And then Tom Winterton, who is sort of the superintendent. He's the guy who, you know, if anything breaks down or whatever, he's there who's fixing it. So that's sort of his gig. And we were, you know, going around the ranch, we were driving around and just they were taking me on a big tour and showing me everything. And, you know, these guys have have definitely had some interesting experiences. You know, Tom Winterton, sort of the most notably, he was injured allegedly on the ranch for digging. The story goes that you're not supposed to dig on the ranch because if you do, you're sort of disturbing whatever's there. And he believes that he was doing some, some, digging on the ranch to move some earth. They're basically trying to build a path.

That's really what they were doing. And he was on his skid steer. And, you know, he started getting this headache. So he gets out and he, you know, heads home, not feeling so great. And basically what happened was his brain started to swell. And then his scalp started to separate from his skull. And it was quite dramatic. I got to see some of the scans, the MRI scans in the pictures.

I mean, you know, the guy's head was literally. like bubbling out. And he says, you know, it started because I was digging on the ranch. You know, I'm not sure totally if I can sort of say that, you know, scientifically you're with any evidence. But it is a compelling story. I did get to see some of the medical records. You know, a lot of the test results were inconclusive for the usual stuff that causes such an

injury. So, you know, as a journalist, I have to kind of err on the side of evidence and caution all the time. but some of the evidence, you know, you're like, well, like, listen, you know, usually this is caused by a bacterial infection. There's no bacteria. So that's an interesting test result that was run at the hospital, for example. So maybe he was injured, right, by the ranch.

But he's had quite a few experiences. But he's the guy who's always out there, you know, working and disturbing stuff. On the flip side, the security guard had apparently quite a dramatic experience. over the summer history channel was there, a film team was there sort of doing some filming on the ranch. And I guess the story goes that something happened and multiple people, including the camera guys who were working the show, sort of were stunned to see something quite sort of odd in the sky.

And I guess there's going to be a whole bunch of evidence that's going to come forward kind of regarding this where you had sort of five or six witnesses. see something, as well as, you know, all of the other sensor platforms potentially, you know, alerting the rest of the ranch team. That's something weird was happening. So, yeah, it's, there's, there's a lot of stories, right, on the ranch and, and the guys there have definitely experienced their fair share of weirdness being on the property. Oh, yeah, for sure. And, you know, I can't imagine even just the feeling of your brain swelling, but then like the skin separating from the skull. And, like, and having. And, you know, I can't imagine. And, you know, I can't imagine even just the feeling of your feeling of your brain swelling.

and having the medical, you know, proof to document that is, is, you know, fascinating to me. But I'll tell you, I'm really interested in seeing this TV show that the History Channel is doing because the audience knows I don't watch TV. And there's a lot of times I have guests on the show they say, have you ever seen the movie? I'm like, nope, I haven't seen the movie. I don't watch TV. I don't watch movies a whole lot. I'm a very busy guy. I'm very, very focused on what I do. And, but this This is one TV show that when I saw was coming out, I am going to be making time to watch it. And I'm very interesting to see what you just described. Now, let me ask you this.

As far as you know, has there ever been any documentation such as what the History Channel is doing before? I know what you have like documentaries like that we just came out, you know, what, 2016 or something. But to the extent of doing an actual season on TV or maybe multiple seasons, has there ever been anything? done like that before, do you know? For Skinwalker Ranch? Yeah. No, never. No, this is the first time. Skinwalker Ranch for, you know, before Bigelow bought the ranch in 1996, it was, it wasn't even, Skinwalker Ranch is really a new, I guess, a new thing. The Uinta Basin, where Skinwalker's located, it's sort of smack dab in the middle of it, actually. It's really like, like when you look at a map of Utah and then you look at a map of the Uinta Basin in Utah.

There's like literally like if you put your finger right in the middle of the basin, Skinwalker Ranch is literally there. There's been a lot of stories out of the U.S. Basin of a lot of weird paranormal encounters for a while, probably a century, maybe a little more. So we do have newspaper articles, for example, from, you know, the 1920s and whatever of people seeing odd lights in the sky or strange happenings and that type of thing. You know, into the 1950s, 40s, 50s, you know, there's a lot of reports of strange creatures.

You know, I guess you could sort of say they're sort of werewolf-like creatures, you know, that, you know, somebody's walking and they see this wolf kind of stand upright and run away, that type of stuff. And there's a book about it by two gentlemen named Dr. Frank Salisbury and Joseph Hicks. I can't remember the book off the top of my head, but it's basically cataloging the weirdness of the Uinta Basin. Really, it becomes the Skinwalker Ranch after Robert Bigelow buys it in 96. The family that owned it previously were the Sherman family. They were ranchers. And the ranch is a working ranch, so they do raise cattle on it. And their intention was to raise cattle.

You're raising cattle? Yeah, they actually do currently. They do keep cows there over the summer. Um, they don't, um, like it's not, it's just a ranch though. So, so they've made arrangements with some local ranchers to basically provide them land for their cows. Um, and, and, and, and those ranchers will, will use the land, right? The cows live on the land. And, and basically the cows are then transported away during the winter. And usually it's probably for slaughter. I mean, it is a ranch after all for cows. Um, but, um, you know, obviously the condition that, that, that, that, that I guess is set up. Um, is, um, is, you know, is, you know, the cows live on the ranch, but they're actually a useful kind of tool in the sense that, you know, cows will often react to things that humans won't necessarily react to because we just don't see it or smell it or sense it. So the cows are acutely called biosensors because that's literally what they do. When the cows are freaking out, something's around, right? So they often

use the cows in this sort of way. So I guess as a rancher, if you if your cows on Skinwalker ranch, you kind of have to be aware that you know you might lose one to a werewolf every once in a while but um that's just a joke but the Sherman family was ranching um and they experienced a lot of cattle mutilations a lot of weird encounters with strange you know creatures you know UFO type phenomena whatever um and it caught the attention it made news headlines and it caught the attention of Robert Bigelow who bought the ranch from them in 96 um and that's kind of when the whole government interest began into the 2000s so um yeah It's it's it's it's it's had a long weird history, but it wasn't until the book hunt for the Skinwalker came out that Skinwalker Ranch really was known as Skinwalker Ranch.

It was called the Sherman Ranch. For a while there was the ridge that runs through the ranch and sort of a big mesa. It's called Skinwalker Ridge now, but it used to be called Werewolf Ridge. So the Skinwalker things have a new phenomenon in the sense of its name. But it doesn't sort of discount the fact. that stories have been reported in the basin and in the area for a very long time. You know, so you just kind of, the history part is kind of, it's the devil in the details, right? But it's a very interesting place.

And I have to say, like, it's beautiful. Like, it's a beautiful piece of land. It's 512 acres. And it's like, like I said in the article, all I wanted to do was camp. Like, I could grab a backpack and just go camping for a week out there and just explore. It's truly a beautiful place. that's really interesting that it was called Werewolf Ridge at one time

I mean because even even that though I mean if you take oral tradition how things get names and stuff I mean Skinwalker supposedly can turn into like a half human half wolf type creature and there's a lot of people saying that you know they experience such things on skin well I shouldn't say a lot of people but there's a lot of stories

of people experiencing such stories on Skinwalker Ranch and just makes you wonder if you know Skinwalker being more of a modern term but even back then they were naming things after they saw or whatever but it's very curious I find yeah well yeah skin walker is a Navajo term for a sort of shape shifter um that can yeah it can sort of shape shift into whatever it can have the skin of so it's a sort of supernatural entity um and and again you know it's it's I'm I'm not too sure how the connection was made to call it Skinwalker Ranch I think there's just kind of been some stories thrown around that there's a sort of Navajo curse in the

area and the curse was a skin walker and that's what's kind of living there. Again, you know, historically really tough to check. There's been, I've a lot of people I spoke to sort of from the local youth tribe there, the indigenous group that lives there, the youth tribe, they sort of never really heard the story before. And then some other people in the area were like, oh yeah, I know, I've heard that story. So, you know, again, as someone who has to kind of always err on the side of, you know, maybe being more critical, I'm not too sure, you know, the history of the Skinwalker term in, in, in this ranch. But like I said, it doesn't discount the fact that people have seen strange things there. So, you know, I want to kind of separate the two ideas almost. The name is just the name.

Let's not put too much weight in that. I think what's more interesting is, is the events that occur on the ranch. Yeah, you know, I remember you. saying that in the article that you were talking to that one lady and when you brought it up, she kind of laughed and she said she never heard of it. And I wanted to ask you, like, you know, because to me, as somebody, I'm in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. So I'm on the other side of the country, but I've heard about this so much that did you, were you ever caught off guard by that? I mean, as in like, did you think that maybe she was just kind of putting on a front that she has heard about, but she doesn't want to talk about it because, you know, the Native Americans,

you know, legend that, you know, you're not supposed to talk about these things or else it could attract their attention. You know, it could have been. She was really, she was great. I mean, we spoke on the phone for, for, I don't know, probably half an hour. And she said, you know, the one thing that she really wanted to clarify, and I kind of put this in the article, but, you know, she said, she represents the Ute tribe on an administrative level, right? So she's their cultural sort of liaison with the American government. So if anything's going, you know, on with, you know, with, you know, cultural land or whatever or there's, you know, again, just disputes of some sort. She's the one who deals with that.

So she said, you know, I represent the Ute on an administrative front. I don't really represent like individual stories or or sort of local stories or mythology. She said she sort of caveated it by saying, you know, listen, I've never heard of this sort of skin walker thing. She says, I know it's a Navajo thing. Like I've heard of skinwalkers, but I never knew that that this story. existed in the basin. In fact, she sort of pointed out, you know, Navajo never lived in the Uinta

Basin. Navajo land is like 400 miles to the south. So, so she said, you know, I would be surprised if the Navajo would curse the Uinta Basin simply because they never, like they never lived there. There would be no Navajo to curse it. But she said, you know, that still doesn't discount the fact that you have Ute who live in the Uinta Basin, who would say, you know, my great grandfather's great-grandfather tells a story and there were Navajo here or there was a curse put on a land or whatever. So she would kind of be like, listen, just because, you know, we don't have historical records of Navajo living in the Uinta Basin, it doesn't mean that there weren't maybe moments where they did and it just never made it into sort of the broader history.

There could be these kind of local sort of oral traditions that exist. So she was, again, she's kind of caveated her statement. But she did burst out laughing, which was thoroughly enjoyable because I'm sitting here being like, I want to ask about this kind of curse and she just guffaws into the phone. But, you know, it was, it was an interesting moment because I had always kind of just assumed that, yeah, I guess Navajo did live here because there is this curse. And, you know, according to the Ute and their administrative end, there's no historical record of that.

But on the flip side, when I spoke with the Navajo, you know, they were saying, yeah, you know, we don't really know if there were Navajo in the base. Listen, the Navajo spokesperson, she was the cultural liaison as well, the PR person, she said, you know, we do know there's some, you know, conflict between the Navajo and the youth. There always has been some land conflict, especially sort of in and around Utah. And she said, you know, is it outside the realm of possibility that if there was some land conflict centuries ago that, you know, and there was a group of Navajo involved, is it out of the realm of possibility that they would curse the land? No, it's something we used to do is kind of how she worded it and how she explained it. So there's a lot of oral traditions in the Navajo culture concerning skin walkers and how they were sort of used as a last ditch kind of tool of desperation and partially revenge when they were wronged to kind of unleash one on an area. again, right? I'm, I, as a journalist, I have to kind of, you know, weigh the evidence I have versus the evidence I don't. But I guess all it really showed me was there's a lot of convoluted information and it's very, very chaotic as to kind of what the true story is. And it's interesting. That's for sure. Yeah, absolutely is interesting. And I just find this whole thing fascinating. You know, in the article, you were describing the ranch as you were leaving and you said that it does seem to have an aura. And even Winterston, he said, it's like the ranch calls you. And, you know, when I read that, it kind of, I kind of sat back and I just was like, huh,

because I've heard that it's almost like people describe it as when you're in that area and you leave, it's almost like you leave a piece of you there. Like, like, it's just has something where it's like, I don't know if it's pulling on your heart or what, but when you were leaving there, did you have this like just feel like, that, you know, it's like you don't want to go yet, almost like you just leaving part of you there and you're going to come back later and get it, you know? Yeah. Oh, for sure.

When I left, I was actually really disappointed. I wanted to stay. I really wanted to explore more. You know, I, I don't know how to describe it, right? Like I said, it's a beautiful place. You know, I could easily stay there for a long time. And there's only so much you can go see in a short amount of time because of how big it is. You know, if I had a week there, you know, I could really kind of be in every little nook and cranny of that place.

But, you know, with only a few days, you're, there's only so much, right? So, yeah, I did. I think I did leave a piece of myself there. I have, I have, you know, if I was invited back, I would go in a heartbeat. Yeah. I, that's the feeling that I got when I was reading it. It seemed like you would go back in a heartbeat. Is there any chance that you would be invited back? I mean, is there still like an open line of communication between you and the owner? Yeah, yeah. We do speak. You know, I kind of try to keep tabs

on what's going on on the ranch, you know, if there's any potential follow-up stories. So yeah, for sure. We're always kind of engaging in communication. You know, I hope that there are, opportunities. I hope that as, you know, stuff starts to come out concerning the ranch, which it will. You know, I mean, we know the TV show's coming out. And part of that is to, you know, allow the public some access. Skinwalker Ranch has been a place of secrecy for almost two decades. It's, you know, I think the new ownership is is much more willing to kind of let the public kind of see what's going on. So, so as things occur, you know, obviously I would love to, you know, tell more stories out of, out of the ranch and, you know, hopefully start

maybe breaking down the stigma that that surrounds it, right? This sort of, for a lot of skeptical people, that sort of woo-woo, paranormal stuff that they consider nonsense, you know, let's, let's talk about the evidence they've collected on the ranch. Let's talk about the weird things that occur. You know, maybe we are dealing with something we ought to to investigate further in a legitimate way. So maybe attempt to destigmatize some of those concepts. And the evidence coming out of the ranch would probably help that. So yeah, definitely. It's a journalist's dream.

That's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it's a lot of people's dreams. But, you know, I'll tell you what. I appreciate you coming on. You know, in the article at the end, you were kind of describing what this, you know, ranch is to different groups of people and stuff.

And for you, you said, for me, a journalist, it's a story. I will someday tell my kids around a campfire. And I think that kind of perfectly described. what it means to you at this point where it's just like even if you never go back it gave you one hell of a story to tell your kids you know yeah it's um my my my my wife jokingly uh you know told my you know i understand stuff a little more um you know my you know i told them i know i had to go away for a few days i was going to go on an airplane i was going somewhere and my daughter's like oh like you know what what are you going to go do and my when my wife kind of pipes up she's like

he's going to chase nightmares and i was like that's a sweet That's a sweet way of telling her something. You know, you're like, okay, I'm going to go chase nightmares now. Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, it kind of is the truth. So you didn't lie to the kids. That's good. Yeah.

M.J., real quick, before we get out of here, if you could, let the people know where they can find you, find your work. And, again, where to find your book. Thanks very much. Yeah, the plug. I love it. My website is really easy. It's mjabinias.com.

Through there, you can read sort of my blog. You can, I have a YouTube channel that's kind of defunct, but maybe it'll resurrect itself at some point. All my articles are there. So I have kind of a running portfolio for people who want to kind of catch up on my work. My book, you can buy on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, book depository anywhere. Books are sold. So the copy or the name of the book rather is the UFO people, a curious culture.

I'm on Twitter, Facebook. You can follow me there. I'm on social media. So yeah, reach out. I'm always interested in new stories. I'm always interested in people's leads and tips and anything they might have. Like I sort of said in the article, right? I'm a storyteller. All journalists are. So stories are what I feed off of. So if you've got stories, I'd love to hear them. Awesome, man. And you have an open door anytime you want to come on and talk about an article that

you've recently written. Man, this has been a great time. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Well, thanks a lot, MJ, for coming on the show and talking about your experience on Skin Ranch, man, he got to go to Skin Walker Ranch. I'm jealous. I'm so jealous. What a lucky guy he is. And he has an open door to come back on and talk about any other articles and investigations that he does. Awesome, awesome, awesome stuff. Now, we're going to transition the show into a live video that I recorded the other day on my Instagram through many, many requests that I got through DM, people asking me to put this on the show. I figured maybe it's a good idea to just put this on the show.

You're not going to get the audio quality that you're used to. It was recorded through my phone on Instagram, but the message apparently rang true for a lot of people, and I thought maybe I would just put it on here, and hopefully you guys gained from it. I went live not knowing what I was going to talk about. I just decided I was going to go live and talk about something when it came to what was going on this past weekend, and I didn't know where I was going with it, but then I decided to share a personal story of experience that I had, and hopefully you guys gained from it. Hopefully you guys gain perspective from it, but, you know, me and my friends, we got pulled over one night by a police who said we high-beamed him at an intersection. And after you hear the story, you know that's not

the motivation. And so hopefully you guys gain from this. Hopefully we can come together in unity and love and understanding. We are bleeding as a nation. We are bleeding as a culture and society. And we need to stop the bleeding. We need to start loving in unity. We need to start coming together, put down the hate, pick up the love and move forward. We really, really need to move forward. We can't ignore what happened in the past. We can't put that aside and say, well, that's the past. Just let it go. We need to acknowledge what happened in the past, the pain, the wrongdoings that happened to past generations

so that we can heal and move forward into new generations, new errors, new beginnings, so that we can come together in love and unity as one and not divided. Friends, I talk about it on the show all the time. The mainstream propaganda, those who are pulling the strings, they want us divided. They don't want us united. They want us to divide so that we can fall. we need to come together in the face of it all and love each other. What's going on, guys?

It's been a crazy past few days in our country, United States. I'm actually pretty emotional right now about what's going on. And I don't know, I just feel a lot of pain inside. A lot of pain inside. For what happened on Monday in Minneapolis and what's happening now across the country, I think that there are people in these crowds that are not remotely sad about George Floyd. I think there are some people in those crowds that are inciting riots. They're not there for the right reasons.

And it's a shame. It's a real shame right now what's happening because our country needs healing. Our culture needs healing on so many levels. And there's been such a, there's been such a, there's been a lot of shortcomings. There's been a lot of shortcomings for many years. And I just feel like it's starting to boil over. I mean, I don't remember in my lifetime. I don't remember in my lifetime, you know, granted, I'm born in 85, but seeing riots across the country, dozens of cities, people rioting and, you know, burning buildings down and police cars, things like that.

And there's like, I think there's like, there's a deep-seated pain in our culture. And it's being released in a very wrong way. But at the same time, you have a culture of people, when I say culture, I mean the black community, minorities who, for decades, who for death, decades have felt like they have been unheard. And I think we're hitting a boiling point. I do think that some of these people were brought in to riot. I think that there has been some kind of setup involved here. When you see videos, there's videos of like bricks that were dropped off on streets.

It's like street corners. Like it's just stacks of bricks on street corners. There's no construction around. It looks like a setup. Like they're trying to set you up to do stuff. And then there's the umbrella man that popped up in video. If you haven't seen that, there's a guy who's just dressed in full body gear. Nothing's showing.

He has a full face mask on with the ventilators. And he's walking with an umbrella. He just walks by the auto zone just taps out the windows with a hammer. And obviously it looks like he's been planted there to incite. when people who are emotional see stuff like that happening, people tend to follow along because we have been engineered as a culture and society to do what, to be heard mentality. We do what we see other people do. That is something that they have engineered and programmed into the masses mentality. Nobody thinks on their own. They just do and think and believe what they're told to

think and believe and do. So when you're emotional and you're all riled up to begin with, you see somebody knocking windows out, it's going to happen. More people are going to follow. So it's a shame that there's somebody, some thing, some organization, people, whatever you want to say it is, that seem to be setting up the situation to be worse than what it could be. And I think that the majority of people out there protesting don't have the ill intent. They just, they're pissed and they want their voices heard. And, you know, guys, I'll tell you. you something. I'll tell you a story. Police, the majority of our police officers are good people and they don't want to hurt people. They just want to serve their community. There are police officers

who lose sight of that. They lose sight of the reason why they're there. They lose sight for the fact that, you know, they're there to serve us and protect us and not be the ones inciting the violence. when I was in college, me and Lindsay were dating. And when me and Lindsay were younger, we argued a lot, like a whole lot. I mean, while we were dating, our first year of marriage was tons of arguing. And we were dating and we were in college and we got in a big argument. And I went back to my dorm and I was talking to some of my friends who are black guys. And I was just venting. I was just like, It was probably like midnight. And I was just venting with them.

And I remember my friend Tim and my friend S. Tim said, man, let's just get out of here and just go for a ride. And I said, all right. So we get in the car. Tim's driving his car. I'm in the passenger seat. And S is in the backseat. And S is a big guy.

I mean, very physically. to look at. And we're driving downtown and not Philly, but a town outside of Philly. And it's probably about 1 o'clock in the morning at this point. And we weren't familiar with the town. And we were coming down the main drive and there's a 7-Eleven and we got to the red light and we made a right-hand turn, went past the 7-Eleven. And again, mind you, we don't, we're not familiar with town. We're just the college kids. We don't know where we're going.

We're just driving. And as we passed the 7-Eleven, there was a police officer parked his car in the parking lot. And he's sitting in the passenger seat. Now, mind you, S grew up in New York City. And when he came down here to college, it was the first time he ever left the city. He had never been outside the city before. And Tim was from Washington, D.C. I was from the sticks.

I grew up out in the country, middle of nowhere, not an urban environment. And so we drive by this cop. And I remember looking at the cop. And in the back of my head, I didn't say anything out loud. But in my head, I was like, I never saw a cop look at me like that. It was just, it was different. Like, I just got this weird vibe. And it just stood out to me because I never saw a cop actually follow me with his eyes.

Like, he was just, like, watching. and we go down this road and it turns out it's a dead end road. There's a school back there. I think it was the local middle school. And so we do a Ui and we pull it turn around and we go down the same road to leave. And we get to a stop sign and that police officer had pulled out. And so now we're at this intersection. And so the cop's facing us and we're facing the cop.

So we both stop and we pass each other. We go by. He turns around and comes up behind us and he pulls us over. And Tim got real nervous. And S is quiet. And I'm just ignorant. I don't, I've never had any interactions with police officers that was of negative, anything negative. And so he pulls us over.

And I'm sitting in the passenger seat. Tim's driving and S is in the back seat. Now mind you, they're both black guys. I'm half Puerto Rican, but I'm not black. And it's 1 o'clock in the morning, roughly. And he comes over and he's asking questions and asked for Tim's ID. And he's asking us, you know, why are we out? And we just said, just,

going for a ride, blowing steam. And he starts giving Tim a hard time. And is asking Tim if he's been drinking, asking Tim if he's been smoking weed. And he said he smells weed on us or something like that or alcohol. None of us. I mean, we were in seminary. Like, I mean, I'm sure some kids were doing that, but we weren't.

Tim had never drank alcohol or smoked weed his entire life. And, um, but he was saying he smelled it on this. And, um, he comes back after he ran Tim's ID and everything. And he said that he wanted to do a breathalyzer on Tim. And Tim, you know, is at this point, Tim, uh, is nervous, like shaking. Like he's, he's shaking. And I didn't understand why. I didn't understand why. Um, I was like, he's just like, he's not going to, like, I, I didn't understand what the mentality was, you know, like, at this.

point I understood that I don't know what this officer is trying to pull but like he doesn't smell what he thinks he smells because none of us have that on us but Tim was like extra nervous and he comes back to the car and he said he wants to do a breathalyzer on Tim and Tim asked him you know why he said I never even smoked me my entire life never drank alcohol my entire life And he said, and the officer said that he said, you have the right to refuse the breathalyzer, but if you refuse, I have the right to arrest you. And so Tim agreed to and he gets out of the car and he's shaking really bad, like really bad, because it's one o'clock in the morning.

It's completely dark where we're at. We're on a side road by ourselves with this cop. and this cop took Tim to the back of his car to do this breathalyzer. And then they're back there for a few minutes, and Tim comes back, visibly shaken. Obviously he passed. The officer is doing stuff at the back at his car, and he comes up, and he starts giving us more questioning.

And then he looks in the back seat at S, and he said, as he said, now mind you, at this point in time, he knew who Tim was, he had Tim's ID, he had his insurance registration, he ran Tim's information, and he gave Tim a breathalyzer. And he comes back after all that, and he starts questioning us more, never said anything to me. And he looks in the backseat at S, and he said, do you have ID on you? And S said, I have my school ID and he said, well, what about your driver's license? And S said, I don't have a license. I don't drive. And the officer said, you need to have a license on you if you're going to be out this late at night. And S said, well, I don't have one. And so

he took S's school ID and he took it back to his car. And I, and I took it back to his car. And I I guess ran S's name to see if anything came up. And he was back there for a few minutes, and he comes up, and he starts laying into Tim about driving around town that late at night, saying that, you know, you shouldn't be out this late at night, this, that, and the other. And then he gives S's ID back to him, and he continues to tell all of us, but mostly focusing at Tim

that we can't we can't be out this late at night and he tells us that especially if you're not going to have a driver's license on you you can't be out this late at night and then he looked at me and he says do you have an ID on you

and I reached my back pocket I said yeah I have one and he said that's fine and I'm like I have it right here and he's like no need yeah and so at that point

I I mean I understood what was happening because Tim was kind of breaking it down to me and S was too like they're like this is this is what happens this is what happens this is what happens I'm like I didn't understand because mind you this was back in 2005 like it wasn't like it is today

as far as like so mainstream noticeable so I never heard of this I never heard of police officers that target black people. But as Tim's explaining it to me, I'm like, really? I still wasn't nervous. I mean, I knew something was weird, something was off. Because, I mean, I've been pulled over by cops late at night myself for speeding and

reckless driving, and I'd never been held this long. And then when the cop came back and was reading us the riot act, and then looked at me and asked me for if I had my idea on me and all he all he said was when I said yeah I had my idea I'm ready to give it to him and all he says is no need that's fine it like it it all just snapped in my head I was like wow like I'm literally in the middle of a situation where this like this is for real and and I was I was so shaken by it because I was just I was I wasn't used to like I'd never I had never I was a kid I mean I was probably 19 I think I was like 19 years old and and that was a wake-up call for me that that was like an introduction to that

world I received a lot of racism towards me as a kid growing up but that was for my peers I grew up in a very poor white neighborhood and so just being a different skin tone I got it which is why I don't really put up a whole lot with it now as an adult. So when people will tell me I look like a Muslim terrorist because I have a long beard, I usually block them because I just don't deal with it. I used to get mad about it and say something. Now I just block it. Whether you mean to be mean or not, I'm not going to deal with that.

But it was a wake-up call. And so I called my dad, which, by the way, my dad's going to be coming down here. He should be here soon. We're going to be recording two interviews today for Hemmerly and Leger. I called my dad the next day. And actually, I think I called him. Yeah, no, I called him that night, I think. I think I called him that night because I think he was working.

And I talked to him about it. And I told him exactly what happened. And I was really shaken. I was like, Dad, this is like, I, like, because I mean, I was like, because at this time of my life, like, I wasn't woke like I am now. And I was like, dad, I know this sounds crazy, but like, I feel like, like we were subject to racism. And my dad said to me, that's exactly what it was.

And I, and he said to me, what do you want to do about it? And I said, dad, me and Tim talked about it. And I, I would like to go and make a file a complaint. And he said, Tony, if that's what you want to do, then you should do it. He said, you don't need to stand for that. And, wow, I didn't expect to get that emotional. And I'm getting emotional because I'm grateful for the dad I have because he's not, he's not my biological father. And when I was a kid growing up, he saw what I went through.

And he would go to parents' houses to complain to them, tell them about what their kids are doing to me, and they wouldn't do anything. And so my dad would go to bat for me as a kid, but there's only so much you could do back then, you know? It's not like it is today. And then even in that moment, as an adult in college, my dad basically told me to do what I felt was right and that he was going to support me in it. A guy who is a white guy, grew up in white America and never was subject to racism himself. He saw it through my life, through my eyes, and he supported me. And that's, I'm very grateful for that because I could have had had. another dad that adopted me who didn't understand it and didn't want to understand it.

And so who knows what that would have done to me growing up and then even as an adult. So anyways, me and Tim went down to the police station the next day to file a complaint. And we asked for the police chief. and he saw us and he sat down with us and I got the sense that he was hearing us out but I don't think at first he took us very serious and we're sitting there and we're talking to him and saying how we felt in the moment and we start telling him the story and I could tell just by his body language and his demeanor and just the way he was vocalizing things to us that he wasn't taking us very serious. It was almost like, you know, like, okay, I'm going to hear these kids out, but what they think happened really didn't happen.

And when we told him that the officer told us that if we're going to be out that late at night, that we need ID on us, he kind of sunk his head down and looked at us. He didn't have glasses on, but if he had glasses on, he'd be like he's looking out the top of his glasses. And he's like, he said that. And we're like, yeah. and then we continue to tell the story and then we told him that um he asked for the idea of s in the back seat and obviously it's him but he never asked for my ID he said really and we said yeah he he didn't want my ID and I was ready to give it to him and he's like and he kind of sits back in his chair and he runs his hands down his chair arms like this and he's just like like oh I got a situation

here. And we're getting towards the end of the story. This is kind of comical. Over his radio, there's an officer yelling in, like, distress, and he's like, the officer goes, he's running down the street. He's running down the street.

And he's naked. He's naked running down the street. And the police and chief, he's just kind of like, he looks at his radio, And he looks at us and he goes, I got to go. And we're like, yeah, it sounds like it.

And so he gets up and he said that he was going to talk to the officer and he's going to take care of it. And he said, okay. And we didn't really know what to do at that point. We didn't know how to follow it up or anything like that. And so I said to Tim on the way back, I said, do you think he's actually going to do anything? And he's like, I don't know. But we did what we had to do. And my other.

friend, Chris, he was actually my roommate. He worked at a local gas station during college. And actually it was like a mini-mark. And that's where the police always came in to get food in the middle of the night. And Chris worked night shift. And Chris said maybe like a week later, he saw the police chief come in. And that officer, who he thought was the officer after I described to him what the officer looked like, he, he, He said that that officer or the police chief had come in and they were all outside talking and then the rest of the officers left and then there was just the police chief and this one other officer and he said this police chief was just like laying into this guy yelling at him. And so my roommate Chris said that he believed that was probably the same guy that bothered us. But, you know, he wasn't there so he doesn't know.

And even if we saw the officer, I don't know if I would have recognized him because I didn't see him real good. It was dark out. But anyways, I tell you that story because what's going on today is deep-seated frustration and anger from generations and decades of malpractice of some of our law enforcement towards the black community. And understandably, they've, how the black community, what I experienced that night, if that's a regular thing that happens in the black community, what we're seeing today is natural, the boiling overpoint of mass protests. And I think, I think that the majority of people do not want the violence. They don't want the,

riots and I think that there are I'm sorry my nose started running because I was crying like a little kid but I think that

that's why I think that there is something else going on here as well where I think there are people who want riots to happen and they're they're seating it you know like they're not they're inciting it like they're doing things

and all of a sudden it becomes mob mentality. And, oh, I just saw somebody. Wow, you have favorite towels. Yeah, I have paper towels because before COVID-19, I still was a prepper. I keep a stock in my house of everything. But I live in the Philadelphia area. So, I mean, in some parts of the country, I mean, it's very rare to see black people. I see black people all the time because it's part of my community. It's a very mixed community here.

And I can honestly tell you, I associate with black people a lot. And not one time have I ever had this. And I talk to people about this stuff. That's another thing is that I'm not shy about this stuff. I hold conversation with black people about these kind of things because I believe that conversation is part of the process of healing. And too many times we don't talk. We don't talk about it. We just pretend it's not there and then it just boils over when something like this happens. And so, and a lot of my black friends, they know where I'm coming from. They know it's nothing but love, baby. And so we just have conversations. And not one time have I ever gotten a sense that they're so angry that they just want to destroy things. It doesn't compute. It

doesn't make sense. If you're being persecuted and hurt emotionally, you know, you understand how emotional that is for somebody who was born into a community, a certain type of community with a certain skin color that feels like the ones who are supposed to be protecting them don't like them and abuse them. And there's nothing they can do about that emotion there. It does turn into hate. But not one time have I ever felt like any of these guys that I talk to. about this stuff, want to burn it to the ground. And I don't think that the majority of the black community thinks that or wants that.

I think that this wasn't cited. I think that this was organized. I think that the black community deserves to protest when they want to protest just like any other community. And I think those who are protesting don't want to ride, and I don't think they want to burn this bitch to the ground. They don't want to do it. somebody else wants it to happen.

And they've been playing games and behind the scenes. You have a crowd of people who are protesting. And in the background, we have somebody knocking out windows. And then all of a sudden, everybody just starts doing it. It's a mob mentality. Because we don't think for ourselves. We've been programmed to not think for ourselves. We just do what we're told to do.

We believe what we're told to believe. And we do what we see others doing. Sheep. Herds. that's how they control us. That's how they control us. So as somebody who has a podcast and has a decent amount of people listening on a weekly basis, I just want to encourage you guys to love each other, love your neighbor.

And don't be scared to talk to people. I think most of the time people want to talk. It's all about your heart and your intent behind your questioning and curiosity. The people that I know and that I talk to, they know where I'm coming from. They know. I got no hate for them. I just want to understand how they think. And you know what?

You would be very surprised at some of the answers you get when you openly talk to people. There's a lot of reason and understanding from the open. lots of reason and understanding and patience. Lots of patience. But what we're seeing right now is a boiling point in the midst of this, this COVID-19, everybody's locked down, everybody has to stay home. So everybody's bored now. We have an entire country that's bored at home that's being told they're not allowed to work. They got a lot of pent-up energy. And then you seed this and you incite this

race issue again. You get it all flared up. Naturally, people are going to have the energy right now to protest. They have nothing else to do. It's not like they have to get up for work tomorrow. There is no work. So they're going to protest.

And I do not think that protesting should be ever in this country be condemned. Rioting, sure. You shouldn't, you shouldn't be breaking into people's businesses and burning things to the ground. But so you have this COVID-19. Everybody's bored at home. They have the energy.

Now they're protesting. And now we're going to take that energy that they're protesting with. And we're going to seat it with riot juice. I don't think. I just got a feeling that those who initially start, who started the rioting, who seeded the idea of it, the momentum. of it. I don't have this feeling. Those aren't the protesters. I have a feeling that there's somebody on the outside looking in who wants the rioting to happen and they send their little

soldiers in to do their bidding. There's videos, very suspicious videos online that show such activity. Anyways, guys, I did this live video because I didn't really, I really didn't know what I was going to talk about. I just kind of went off the cuff. But I love everybody. I love you all. And I hope that maybe I said something that maybe gets you thinking, maybe in a different way. Just love people. Love your neighbor. Love the people down the street. Love the people that are outside your community. If you're white, love the black. If you're black, love the white. Love everybody. Just love each other. Stop falling in this trap of identifying yourself through a group of people. Whether it's your skin color, your politics, your religion, stop identifying who you are through a group.

Start identifying yourself as an individual because you are a very unique individual. So unique that there's nobody else in this world like you. you have something to offer to the world. And the people down the street have something to offer you as well because they're just as unique as you. So just love each other. And don't fall into the trap of picking sides, especially on this. Especially on, it's easy to point the finger. Well, they shouldn't be rioting.

No, they shouldn't be rioting. But they could easily point the finger at other people as well and say, well, I'm doing this because. There's a lot of pain here. There's a lot of pain that's boiling over. And the only way we're going to fix us is if we start loving each other. We just have to love each other. You know? Everybody loses their temper sometimes.

But got to approach people with love. Anyways, guys, I got to start planning for this interview coming up here. But I don't know. Hopefully, you dig it. Later, guys. Uh, word to grandpops who couldn't fathom the Obamuses. I don't hate America, just a man she keeps her promises. 20 teens looking like the 60s, it's crazy.

A nationwide deja vu, what my people post to do. Go to schools named after the clan founder. We're around town is I don't see why we frowning. Native American students forced to learn about Wino Perra. How is that fair, bro? Some heroes unsung and some monsters get monuments built for them, but ain't be all a little bit a monster we crook it. Man, your heroes are worthless

and man can show tribe, but only God gives purpose, you crooked, be humble or be quiet, your kingdom can catch flames as effortless as riots. Entire empire's a car castle, chill, and the strength of your whole team is crumpled with one meme. It's crooked, your whole works is twisted. He ain't old enough to buy beer, but go on and list him,

send him to Iraq, and why he come back crazy? Because no human beings should see the inside of a baby, expect trust in a system that needed to be convinced of the madness of trust in a court that waved a Confederate flag. It's crooked. That's twisted, demented perverted. Got falling written all over us and got the nerve to judge each other crooked. At logic fatally flawed like sickness is a sign that you out of the will of guard.

Like one ounce of crack gains the same amount of jail time is 18 of cocaine, but ain't they the same thing? It's crooked. Stay eating our own kind and muster up a scandal instead of celebrating shining. and some hot-ass righteous like the world needs to know We expose and impose us with judgmental bold It's crooked And in one time we built pyramids

One can only wonder why we ain't wiped ourselves out yet We're as good as it gets crooked Clueless buffoons put a man on the moon And I still can't get cell phone reception in my room It's crooked Well that's off and off Kelter Offa stand offish Plan is outlandish

An awful uncanny Resimbulin's a miss mark like Chris Columbus This might as well landed in Denmark me. Just the all-star Chuck Taylor, I'm saying the fact I ain't get lost on the way here is amazing me. Just a crooked stick in all this goodness and somehow to school the prison pipeline missed this. And moving minds swiftly and change in entire industry.

Taylor made for greatness because Cah's got bad blood. Yeah, y'all still looking at a tunnel rat. Penn player Earthworm Battlecat H-Tren. Might learn my lesson a day after the world ends and been wrestling with it since my wife was my girlfriend crooked like i take a bullet for my wife yet i wonder what's under the skirt of the girl on my flight these eyes are mine won the lost sight come and get me homie i'm not a leader just a hippie with daddy issues shattered dreams and promises are closed-minded hypocrite although i'm standing in the pulpit the culprit we are all of the above right and wrong and indifferent yet none of the above it naturally fit in this subjects and predicates subjected to my detriment dedicated to the Elevating, devastating pride It's quite a ride, but if you look inside, bruh, some things just don't make sense, go with it.

We stay perplexed at the truth that defies logic, but who say that logic the best way to understand it? Man, that's the thinking of our colonizers. Truth is proven only through ears and eyes, and if you can't touch it, then you can't trust it. That's why they can't explain the love in my daughter's eyes, and that's that conscious rap, oh, that's played out. You old school, you old dude, you aged out.

It's not cool, them old rules, they phased out. There's new rules, them new dudes ain't like you. They say you hating when you're on toss, I'm a retweet. I study for every test and y'all is looking for a cheat sheet. Things I gotta tell you, know you're too much to be scared of you. Concoction of contradictions, misnomerons and paradox. Conclusion, confusing like the way that I see me. An apex predator, 10 steps ahead of you.

Desperately trying to hide my insecurities. Paper machet proper He's trying to hide the duct tape Defending McCart Castle Like you could stand in one gustle in the lust of eyes shackle me Just as I'll be tackling My inner demons Eating through my marriage and my parenting

What is arrogant and humble Eloquent, ridiculous Confident and nervous The smell of cigarettes and broken dreams Sold out the tickets for the VIPs Bands that could have been contenders Now Venice Beach Fenders like Dog that could be me

I swore I never wear skinny jeans, but homie looks real dumb in size 40 dickies. That's laughable. Better be adaptable and hit the road to see how far that rabbit hole go. This is present tense. None of this. Already I've been delivered mess. None of that suit of righteousness. I'mma let you guess the rest. Sluts that little cluster surrounded by natives. That's the picture of foolish pride in the eyes of general custard. Hey, watch his eyes slowly closed like, yeah, what do we remember the Alamo? It's confusing. American generals get statues even for the battles that they lose. People are so perplexing, perpetuating the same hate, they out protesting.

And Netflix, exposing the holes in our morals like, whose side were you on? Walter, or skies? You corner now, because every corner boy is now humanized. Trying to make ends meet just like you and I. That shifts your paradigm, bro, that go. Change your life on site like the skies in Morocco. Where this man but rich soiled, toilio, then find inner sense. A beautiful garden that costs a pretty penny

Listen, it's freely given, but you've been worn These halos stay balanced on the tip of our horns We crooked