The Confessionals - 262: Living In A Masonic Lodge

Episode Date: August 25, 2020

In Episode 262: Living In A Masonic Lodge, guest Micah shares his numerous experiences with the spirit realm. Micah is the son of a pastor and moved around considerably, living in several different places throughout his life. At one point in his childhood, Micah tells us about living in a home that was formerly owned by the Masons. He recalls a lot of scary things happening in that house, and believes it might have had something to do with its previous owners. Micah's story starts out in Niagara Falls and finishes with a sighting of UFOs in Phoenixville, Pennsylvania, an area known to me in my home state!BECOME A MEMBER AND GET ADDITIONAL SHOWS: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinSimpliSafe: www.simplisafe.com/confessionalsGet Emergency Food Supplies: http://www.preparewiththeconfessionals.com Subscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaI Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/the-newsletter Website: www.theconfessionalspodcast.com Email: [e-mail] Facebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcast Twitter: @TConfessionals Tony's Twitter: @tony_merkel Show Intro INSTRUMENTAL: www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyub39AXxUw Show Intro FREE DOWNLOAD: https://bit.ly/2HxNcw3Show Art: Alika Spahn Naihe (www.hauoliart.com)

This was all circulating around the base that a giant had to kill, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, bony fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing up this giant. With a giant move, he's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast, and spears, Dan, holds him up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face, they basically decapitated. Pulling at my leg, and I look over, and there are two small gray entities, and they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed.

I reached my hand into this bush, and I touch air. Couldn't breathe, and I couldn't move, because I know I'm seeing it. A monster. Yep. Welcome to the show, everybody. You're listening to The Confessionals. I am your host, Tony Merkel. Thank you for being here.

If you've had an encounter or a story like to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is The Confessionals at the Confessionalspodcast.com. That's The Confessionals at the Confessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, Theconfessionalspodcast.com.

Hit the contact section and you can reach me that way as well. Either it works for me, just get a hold of me. If you want more shows every week, we do offer bonus episodes to members-only to the website. So if you're interested in hearing more of the show on a weekly basis, go to the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the join button and become a member today. And if you want some emergency preparedness food, go to prepare with the confessionals.com. That's prepare with the confessionals.com. And there you can get emergency preparedness food

so that when things go south, you will have food for you and your family. We are offering a four week supply of food and we're taking $100 off for people who go to prepare with the professionals.com. Now, this week we have Micah coming on the show, and Micah's going to share a lot of paranormal experiences he's had throughout his life from childhood into his marriage, and he even is a guy who lives kind of local to me, and he shares some stories of things that happened in towns around where I live. And it's really interesting conversation. He shares about a time where he grew up in a Masonic Lodge. I guess it used to be a Masonic Lodge, and then him and his family moved into this house, and some of the things that happened to that house, well, pretty scary for a kid to

go through. So let's get to Micah right now. All right, today we got Micah on the show. Micah, how you doing, man? I'm great. How are you, Tony? Doing well, doing well. So I deliver in the area that you work in, and I actually got a chance to meet you and Rodney where you work, because I came in one day on a delivery. And I think it was Rodney that came over to me first, right? Yeah, because I have my face stuffed in a computer screen. I was on the phone with the tech guy. So I didn't even see you. I didn't even see. who came in. I just thought it was funny because you guys were the first ones to ever basically say, hey, I know you at a delivery like that.

I mean, I've had one other person kind of like stock my truck until I stopped it once. And then they're like, are you Tony Merkel? I'm like, yeah. But it was pretty cool to meet you guys and stuff. And I've been there a few times. But since then, you guys started a trend because it's been happening a lot recently. It's hilarious. Yeah.

But it was cool. and to know you and stuff, but you actually told me when I met you, you're like, I'm scheduled for an interview with you. Oh, awesome. So here we are. So, man, listen, we have a lot of different stuff to talk about with you today. And we were just talking before we went live. And what we're going to do is we're going to let you run through your stories. And I'll just interject where I have a question or something like that. But basically, man, the floor is yours. You got a lot of stuff to go over. And let's just start off with the idea of the fact that you lived in different locations

as a kid and things would happen. Now, you're the son of a pastor. And one of the houses that you actually lived in was, I guess, owned by the Masonic Lodge. And there was a lot of, I guess, satanic stuff that went on in there, right? Yeah, there was, I heard a lot of different stories about it. I know the downstairs of the house, it was a three-story building. downstairs with some sort of dance club or something. And the upstairs, yeah,

with some sort of like Masonic Lodge slash like Stateness Center or something like that. All right. Well, yeah, I mean, walk us into the experiences that you had from the time you were a kid, I guess, because I know you started out in Niagara Falls. Yes. Yeah, so I guess I'll just get into it here.

I was born in a house in Niagara Falls. and actually on the floor of my parents' bedroom. Dang. It was just really, it was funny because just a quick background, the doctor was like, you know, oh, yeah, I'll be there. I'll be there. And then also the doctor says, oh, I had another birth happening. And there happened to be two missionaries from Africa in the house and my dad.

So they were more than up to the challenge of bringing me into the world. but other than that, you know, you would think it was a normal house. It was a very old house. It was kind of not such a good area. But it was a ministry house, actually. My parents didn't own it. They worked for a ministry out of Arkansas. And they were like the stewards of the house.

So we would have tons of people passing through all the time. We would have like traveling ministers, missionaries. Some of them I've actually run into later in life. And, you know, just like randomly, I'm like, oh, wow, yeah, they say they remember me being a kid. So it's really funny how many people I've interacted with without realizing it just in that house. And my parents would have weekly Bible studies there as well. So always around a lot of different people. The house was a little, like I said, it was not in such a good section of Niagara Falls.

Of course, I don't know if there really is a good section of Niagara Falls. but basically I'm pretty sure it was there my sister said that she used to be like freaked out because she swore like a goat man would chase her around up and down the stairs she's like eight years older than me so I've heard a little bit about it but not a whole lot but that was one thing growing up my parents used to refer to and I remember if you're familiar with the lion in the witch in the wardrobe

yeah my sister didn't like Mr. Tumnus because he was a goat man that loose V runs into when she goes through the wardrobe. So it's actually, I mean, it's kind of funny, I guess, in a way to me, because people don't think that, you know, things are real, that, you know, demonic creatures or anything like that exists. But, you know, I have no reason to doubt it. So basically, you are saying that your sister told the family that she was being chased around by Abafamette. yeah I guess that's what you'd call it technically yeah like go bottom man top did this um did this thing seem like a demonic creature as in like it would uh appear and disappear before did did she describe it as something that may seem more physical you know she she never went in

a lot of detail with me it's just like a general thing that my family's talked about that i heard her reference um i've never heard any like in-depth stories other than she was very scared of it um I know that actually I didn't even remember this before the show because my said my whole family's had a lot of different experiences. My sister one night said that she woke up and saw two men on horses in her room, like one in black armor and one in white armor and they were fighting like over her, as weird as that sounds. Take it with a grain of salt, whether it was a dream or she actually, she claims she was

wide-awakened. My parents believe her because my parents are actually very accepting of this. I mean, myself as a Christian and my family, we are very aware of that there is a spiritual world around us and that things do appear. I mean, there are manifestations of that. So, as far as the goat man, like, being physical, I don't know. I wasn't there. I'm just giving you the story that I have been told. Yeah. But yeah, that house was, it was. was this, it was creepy. I remember as a kid, I was very scared of it. Um, being alone. Like, if my mom left me alone, it just was one of the creepiest places. The attic had like a secret passage behind the wall up there, possibly like an underground railroad type place. Um, I remember there was this like giant bear up there, like a stuffed teddy bear. And for some

reason, that thing, when I was a kid, I used to think it just like watched me. And I mean, this is something that any kid could talk about. I mean, when we're kids were scared of sometimes ridiculous things. But I used to just like get the willies, especially in the attic of the house, I would not go up there unless my sister was up there playing with her Barbies because we had like a play area.

But I wouldn't be caught up there alone. But I guess I could tell you that my actually seeing things didn't start until we moved from Niagara Falls to the Buffalo area. So I would actually just transition into that. My dad, the ministry who was working with, my parents took a different position with a church in the Buffalo area. And they offered my dad to become an assistant pastor there.

So I was probably about six or seven at the time. And my parents moved into this. So the church that he was going to pastor with, I want to try to make this clear. originally was in this building that we referenced already. It was a three-story structure, a really huge building. And the church bought it from, like I said, in the Sonic Center Nightclub, I don't know if it was like separate organizations

that owned each floor. It was obviously, there was three families in there when we moved in, so it was more than large enough for three families. Pardon me. So the church was in that building. building, then the church built a brand new building, like not even a mile down the road. So when the church moved out of that building, rather than let it sell it or let it go to

waste, the pastor's family, which is the pastor, his wife, and their daughter, my family, my sister, my parents, and then another family from the church, a lady and her two daughters. We all moved in and lived there together in, like, community almost. And that's where the... Was that weird? You know, being that I... Like I told you, we lived in this house in Niagara Falls where we always had people staying with us. So living in this house in like a community setting, it really didn't bother me because I was used to having a house where we always had people around anyway.

And I guess you can say these people became like my family, like the pastor is like a grand, well, he's passed away now. But he became like a grandfather to me because I never knew either of my. physical like my mom's and dad's you know fathers very well i met them but um the pastor of the church who's was like a grandfather to me he had a lot of grandkids my age so living with him and his wife was you know like almost natural and his uh daughter was the same age as my sister so it was kind of like just being family um yeah i can understand that i just it to me it sounds like it could been a little off and, uh, you know, from the outside looking in, I'm like, well, that sounds just like what they would call a cult. Yeah. Yeah, right. No, I get what you're saying. I guess,

yeah, it sounds strange. I mean, the upstairs was, uh, one, two, three, four, five, like six bedrooms on the third floor and plus a living room area and a bathroom and like a separate hallway, like each floor. It could have been like its own. So it was plenty large enough. The second floor actually was smaller. That was where the pastor and his wife stayed. They had like their own like bedroom with their own private bathroom and everything there. And then the bottom floor was the kitchen. A huge open area, which would have been the dance floor. It was all wood floors, but we made it like a dining room slash living room with another bedroom downstairs and a creepy garage slash shed on the attached to the back. So I mean, this was a massive building.

I got you So But yeah You know I can look back And I can understand Yeah it is a little weird Not a lot of people

Move in with other people like that But we all became pretty close I mean church should be like a family anyway But Yeah it was interesting But anyway My room was on the third floor And

I was about six Or seven When we moved there So I was probably about seven when this happened. But it was like the kind of house, again, where I always just had this fear, like when you're left alone somewhere, especially in a large building. You know, I didn't like that, especially when I was younger, especially at the third floor

of this place. And I remember I was sleeping one night, and I woke up in the middle of the night, and they know I was awake. And there was this figure hovering over my bed. And I don't know how to explain other than it was in the shape of a man, like it had arms, legs, head, neck, and all that, a body. But it was like green, colored and kind of like vaporous. And I guess by vaporous, I mean, it didn't have any distinguishable facial features.

So it was like in the shape of a man, but no like, you know, eyes or nose or mouth or anything and no clothes just in the shape. And it was, you know, moving. And it was falling towards my bed, like slowly, like descending. and I just remember like I'm sure my eyes were big of saucers and I just went under the covers. That's all I could think to do. I mean, I'm seven years old and I'm seeing this thing in my room. And I don't know how long I was under the blankets before I felt it hit my bed.

I guess probably anywhere from 10 to 15 seconds. And it made like the blankets on my bed actually like whoosh. Like, how if you ever seen like in a movie or something where like the blanket, are flapping. Yeah. Like that, like I could feel the blanket's moving, but it only lasted like,

it was almost like if a really strong gust of wind hit the bed from the top down. And there was no, and believe it, there's no vents in this house. There's no central air. No, it was a very old building. So it's all baseboard stuff.

So like that just freaked me out. It was cold. I remember feeling cold when it hit. So, you know, in my lodging, seven-year-old mind. I'm like, well, there's a window in my room. And I remember thinking, maybe the window is open. So I don't know how long I was under there before I got brave enough

to peek out. Like, I just made a little hole, like, with my blankets. And the window was shut. So it's like, there's no way this gust of wind. So even if people said, well, you're crazy, you know, where it was just the window. Well, it wasn't the window. And fortunately, I was in a family where people believe you, you know, I'm not. just some stupid kit. So that kind of made me feel validated. I do remember the pastor's wife at one point saying something about like there was a picture because they went to purchase the building originally from the, you know, Masonic place or whatever. There are several people in the church who have been there a while who recall what it looked like upstairs. They said there was like a little,

you know, it was like a Masonic room with like a little altar. And there were these like pictures. on the wall of like beings. And I think it was my pastor's wife that said that there was like a picture of like a green being on the wall that was hanging outside my room. Now I wouldn't have known this. This was, you know, probably before I was born. But I guess I don't, I don't know what to say about that other than what it is. Yeah.

This thing. And it scared me. And I don't know if that's why I became so scared of the dark. dark, why I became so scared to look out windows at night. I just, that really hit me. So to skip forward a little more, I don't know if I was like eight or nine, but again, I was up on the top floor there. And I remember it was my birthday, and I had a bunch of friends downstairs waiting for me, and my sister called me and said, you know, she's not a stairwell in relation to my room. It's across this, like, you know, living area.

So the third floor. And I'm the only one up there again. My sister was up there and she ran down. She said, come on down. They're all waiting for you. And I remember thinking, you know, there's no one up here. I was starting to get freaked out because it just felt creepy. And I remember screaming for my sister to wait for me because I didn't want to be up there alone.

And she didn't. So I was just like, all right, I have to run from my room to the stairwell door. and I just felt this fear come over me. So I remember I ran for it, and as I approached the stairwell door, it was like you could see behind, you know, where the door met the wall, like you could see behind the door because it wasn't like flat against the wall. And there was a man standing behind the door, and he was, well, like the figure of a man, but it was all black.

And he appeared to look like, as I always recall Dick Tracy, he had the trench coat and he had like the little hat on. so that just and he was looking I could feel that he was looking at me and I remember I did not stop I just kept running and this was not at night this is during the day um and I always like wonderful was this like a trick of my mind you know because I was already scared but the fact that I remember him so vividly especially what he was wearing like I said a trench coat and a hat I didn't know this was a thing until actually I was listening to your show and I think I think I heard your wife mentioned she saw a hatman.

Yeah, she saw it in an old house in Boiartown, Pennsylvania. Yeah, and I've actually heard several other people on your show reference this Hatman character. So I didn't know that this guy actually had a name and I didn't know it was a thing. I thought I was the only one who ever saw this. Oh, you're not that special. Yeah, right. Well, it's the thing.

I guess it's, I just, like I said, I didn't know it was a thing. But it scared me, like to death. And again, that was another reason why I've always, when I was younger, I hated being alone. I hated being left alone. I remember I was screaming and I ran down these stairs and I had three flights of stairs to go down. Or two flights, I was on the third floor going to the first. And I remember like almost falling down the stairs because I couldn't get down fast enough. And like I got to the bottom.

My sister's like, what is wrong with you? And I was like, I had tears coming down my days and it's my birthday. You know, my friends are down there. I'm just there was something up there and like you know basically she was like you know shake it off at your birthday you got to so I did and you know after that I it was just a typical day I guess but I that's that whole event has always stuck in my mind very vividly um yeah that that house is weird I know that um my mom actually when I told

them that I was coming on your show I told my parents and that I was going to recall some of the things that happened to me growing up and I had a couple friends that would occasionally spend the night. And I remember, actually my mom reminded me of this, and then when she did, I remembered. I had a friend who stayed overnight one night, and I remember we were in my room. And he was so scared of something. He would not stop crying. And his mom actually had to come in the middle of the night and pick him up.

Because he was like unconsolable because he was scared of something in my room and he wouldn't say what it was. I was always scared in my room. So, I mean, I kind of was like, I don't know, used to it in a way. Whenever I go to bed at night, I'd always hide under the blankets, you know, unless I had a friend over. Then I felt a little bit better having someone in there. But I remember having friends over and then being freaked out in my room. And I don't know what it was about this house other than I believe whatever happened in there, like as far as being a Masonic lodge,

being a place where they don't, I mean, I have a lot of beliefs about the Masons and I don't want to offend people, but they don't worship the Lord. I've known enough people in the Masons that they've affirmed that. They don't worship God. They do talk about Lucifer, and there are some really weird things that they do.

But I don't want to get too much into that. I'm not an expert on it. I just know what I've been told and what I've read. but it did, I believe, contribute to this house being the way it was. So that's, I don't know, is everything clear enough on that? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think when you're dealing with things that the Mason supposedly deal with, you're going to be inviting things into an environment where it may not leave when the Mason's leave, you know?

Yeah. Yeah, I believe in prints of things can be left behind. like when you open a door to the other side I've heard of like objects that can become possessed when I was in Bible school I had some teachers that went to Africa and had some crazy experience with like little idols and stuff and they would go to

villages like these things jumping out of fire like I believe that you know there isn't a dark side there is a satanic side and it's it's active and a lot of people don't, not everyone is treated. I shouldn't say treated, but given a glimpse into that. And I don't know why I was able to have a glimpse into this, but it just kind of followed me.

But anyway, I guess I'll just keep moving through this. My parents, you know, I don't remember exactly how many years we were in the house and it was a couple. And then I know my parents did want some more privacy. I believe that was one of the reasons. So we did move out eventually. And we got an apartment that was like a half a mile down the road. So you could actually still see my night,

like a quarter mile because you could still see the house from where the apartment was that we got. Because the church was right there, you know, and my dad would be on call to go there. And so it was convenient to be close. And my dad was a bus driver too, but the church was a big part of our lives. So anyway, we went to this apartment and while we were there, not a lot of like crazy supernatural stuff happened, but I know that while we were there, I started to show signs of like Tourette's and ADHD. And my parents didn't really know what to do with me. So I saw several child psychologists and they took me for tests.

They gave me those inkblot tests because back when I had it in there was like, early 90s, it wasn't like a common thing. So, I guess maybe it was starting to ramp up more, but they gave me some medicine and stuff, which didn't work out. My parents ended up taking me off of it, but

one thing that did happen in this apartment is I remember I still had that fear of the dark, fear of being alone, and my parents, when I was probably, I don't know, probably at least 12 by the time we were in this or 10,

between 10 and 12 in this apartment. And I remember my parents would leave me alone because they would go to church, which was right down the road. They could drive there within three minutes. They leave me alone in the apartment while they would go and do stuff. And I remember one night,

also my sister had run, I guess you would say, ran away from home or left home during this time. So she did not live with us. So she was just off living with, her friends. And I remember I was in this apartment one night and I was watching TV and I was on the couch at one end of the apartment and the bathroom was at the other end and I really, really had to go to the bathroom. But all the lights were off and it had gotten dark while I was watching TV and I hadn't

left any lights on and I didn't like to go through the dark. And I just was like, I really have to go to the bathroom but I don't want to get up. And this is, I don't even know what to make of this myself, but I remember thinking, all right, I'm just going to go. I remember standing up from the couch. And like I said, that fear, that raw like fear instinct or whatever was back again, that something was just weird. And I remember standing up from the couch and maybe it was just because I was so afraid, I don't know, but it's like I blinked.

And the next thing I knew I was in the bathroom with the light on. So you don't remember anything other than that? No. Like it was the weirdest thing. It's like I knew I needed to go to the bathroom, but I didn't want to like run through the kitchen and down the hall to get there. And literally, like, I thought about this and I've never known what to make it other than maybe my mind shut out me running there because I was so afraid. But it's like literally I blinked and I went from the couch and I was in the bathroom, turned like with the light on. And I remember shutting the door and like thinking, how the heck did I just get here?

it was bizarre i mean people might think i'm nuts for saying this i mean there there may be psychological reasons people could use to explain it away all i know is that i cannot explain it was it was it kind of like a situation though where what you know how like when you're driving a car sometimes like you're like how did i get home like i don't remember making this ride and it's because you you've done it so many times that you just you like zone out do you think that that was like a way that you kind of just like you were so scared that you zoned out and but your body was like you need to go to a bathroom so you just kind of like went you know it's it's possible i mean like i've tried to explain it away in my own mind because like i want to try i like to ration things out i don't like when it comes to even as much as i've like told you so far i believe in the supernatural but i still try to rationalize things it's i feel like i'm a weird person you're

person. Like, I definitely believe in it. But it's like, like, when I investigate something, I try to cover all bases. Like, okay, is there like a rational explanation or is this like a legit, like this is supernatural and there's nothing that can explain it? And as far as me getting from one room to another within the blink of an eye, I don't know if you would call that missing time, because there was no clock nearby for me to even know what that was. I never even heard of it at that point. I just know that I was in front of the couch. And then. then I was in the bathroom. So like you said, it's possible my body went on autopilot and I blocked out the run. I don't know. But that's always, like I said, that's one of those moments that's stuck with me through the years. Yeah. It's, it's, I mean, it's something you're not going to be able to explain. I mean, it happened. It is what it is. It's weird, you know, but it's not like, it's not like you're really going to ever have an explanation for it unless you know maybe somebody that's listening is a scientist and they they know this stuff but i yeah right i don't yeah i know what you're talking about like with autopilot because like quick side like comment on that is like i'm a

drummer i've played drums for well not recently but i played i took lessons for like 12 years like my dad paid for lessons i played you know how to read me like I would play drums at the church. And I remember when I didn't always like playing drums at church, sometimes my dad would just make me play. Like I paid for these lessons, you're going to do it. So like, pastor's kid, you know, okay, I have to do it. So I just did it.

And there was like days I did not want to be up there playing. And I remember I just had this ability that I could play drums and let my body go on autopilot. I would like stare at the back wall, like at the clock and like wish to go home. And like I could think about something completely different while my body. just would like, you know, play. I guess maybe that's kind of like what you were saying and like your body just does what it does. Yeah.

So I don't know. I don't either. So let's get going on another story because I have no idea. Yeah, I don't want to spend a lot of time on that. Anyway, I was probably about 12 or 13 when my parents bought their first house. And it was about half an hour away, more in the country. And I used to get sick a lot as a child. I remember I actually had scarlet fever when I was younger.

I've had bronchitis frequently. And I remember, but at this particular time, I had pneumonia at this house. I was really sick. At one point my parents didn't know whether take me in the hospital or not, but I guess it turned around finally. And again, I was home while my mom went to, I guess, church, because she would work at church during the day and then also do, you know, grocery shopping and whatever else.

she had to do. And my dad was working and I was just homeling on the couch and I remember I woke up from sleeping and I looked over at the stairway in this house and I saw these little black creatures. I don't know how to explain it like maybe a foot tall if that and they had they were all black with like abnormally large heads almost cartoonish like an onion size. head for this little body and they had these big white eyes and black pupils. And there was probably, I don't know, like five or six of them from what I remember and they were running all around the other side of the living room. They were running up and down the stairs. My room was upstairs. But they were staring at me and they kept like hiding behind things and like peeking out at me. And I was just like, what is going on? And I remember my parents' bedroom door. was right off the living room. And they always left the door open because they had no heat

and no air conditioning in there. So they would leave it open to get either warm or cold from the rest of the house. So I remember their door was open and these things were like running over near their door, running up the stairs. And I remember I kind of just like shut my eyes

because I wanted to like, am I hallucinating? Am I actually seeing this? I blinked a couple times. They were still there. So I shut my eyes. I'm like, I'm just going to go back to sleep.

and I heard my parents' door slam, like they slammed it. And I remember thinking, okay, maybe my dad's home and I'm just freaking out. So I was like, Dad, are you here? And there was like, no, no answer. And then literally three, like, or no, two minutes later, if that, I hear the door open in the kitchen at the other end of the house. And my dad was home. And I was like, Dad, have you been here?

Did you slam your bedroom door? And he goes, no. I literally just got home pulled in the driveway. So whatever this episode was with these little, I don't know, sprites or what you would call them, it did happen. Like the door was shut when I, you know, it was open one minute. It was shut. These things were running around.

I don't know what to make of that either. I don't know what you would call them. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's different. When you first started talking about it, I was thinking that you were seeing them. outside, but you saw them inside the house. Yeah, they were in the living room because like, it was a Cape Cod. So in the living room, at the door that went to my parents' bedroom in the front of the house, and then you had the stairway, which was right close to their door. So,

I mean, these things were in the same room as me. They were just at the other end of the room. So did they seem like malicious or anything or just mischievous? I guess I would get a definitely more of a mischievous vibe. Like they weren't like trying to attack me. They were just there. Running around, I don't know what their end goal was. I don't know if there even was one. They were just there and they were watching me. And I guess, you know, I have a strong opinion on what

overall all of these things are. Like growing up in the church, I'm being exposed to what I've been exposed to. Again, I believe there is a spiritual realm. I believe they are good entities. that are for God and I believe that are bad ones. And what my mom's always told me and my parents is that if it's not for God, it's a demon. And I believe that even though it sounds like a generic term, I believe they can take spirit, things can take different shapes.

Kind of like in the Bible says that even Satan himself can appear as an angel of light. So I believe that things can appear in different forms. whether, I mean, again, it's my opinion, whether it's a Sasquatch, or whether it's a goat man, or whether it's little sprites or a green entity or a hatman, I believe that they're all the same, they all came from the same place. Other than that, I don't know. I believe the agenda is on the enemy's side, it would be to spread fear, to spread doubt, to cause distraction. other than that, I don't know what these little things are other than I know that some people have proper names for these entities. Like I said, I just learned about Hatman having a name. So these little black things, I've never heard anyone else that I know of talk about entities like this.

Other than in some folklore, I've heard of like little sprites and stuff. So I don't know if that's what you call them. But I don't know, you've never heard anything about that, have you? No, no, not that I recall me. I've done a show early on with a girl that had what we called a tree sprite haunting her. And there's still people that say that was one of the most scary episodes they've ever listened to. A little unknown fact about that is during that interview, I had, just as she said, it doesn't like when I talk about it.

I had a stack of boxes in my office that all just came piling down. And they were sitting next to the wall for like months. And it was a bunch of beard products. And they all just came tumbling down. And I was just like, I looked at it. And I was just like, well, keep it rolling. So that's crazy. Yeah. Oh, that's so, that's so creepy. It's weird. Yeah. I mean, I don't know the mechanics of the spiritual world. it's something but we can't explain I guess it's kind of like I look at it as like a matrix type deal

I know a lot of people use that terminology but we're here but there is a more real reality you know behind like beyond us that we can't necessarily always interact with but it's there and it doesn't make it any less real and sometimes things from that I believe do bleed over into our reality

but anyway from excuse me from that house in that area that we lived there was a cemetery down the road and I didn't find out about this place actually until I was probably about 16 or 17

I was working at a gas station right down the road from where we lived and I guess it was a pretty popular spot it's called Goodleberg and it's not big but it's you have to go up over the hill

and it's like in the woods basically. You have to go down some backcountry roads to get there. There's only like a seven-minute drive from my house, and I did visit it later on a couple times. But a lot of the younger guys, my age, you know, about 17, 18, and some of the other people who were older that I worked with all had stories about that place. And apparently several of them are, like, there was a house there. There's a cemetery, you know, family that lived there. There are still houses on that street that live across from the cemetery. So there are still people living on that street.

It is a dead end street. It dead ends at a bridge. And I just remember them saying that there also near the creek used to be like a guy who did abortions, like way, way back in the day. Back when it was, you know, medicine wasn't so good. And I guess he did them like under the table, like private. and sometimes like you know the babies would die and he would throw their bodies as a creek that runs back there oh that's got some bad juju to it yeah so apparently this guy would this is what i heard from the little folklore the place um he would rip the babies out you know

they throw their bodies in the creek and then sometimes the women would die and their bodies wouldn't end up back there somewhere in the woods or the creek um so and i don't know when what the year was. I just knew it was like maybe like 1800s-ish. But there was a house there, and I'm sure there's some other history behind it. A lot of people used to go there because they'd see the light orbs and other things. But the one guy I woke with said he was driving down past the dead end street there. And he saw this little girl in a white dress alongside the road. And it was at night, and he was like, what the heck is this? So he drove past her. And he said like literally another couple seconds later

the same little girl was in front of his car again and he said for like a mile this little girl kept appearing out in the road until he got like away from the place a lot of other people say that when you drive in there a fog will roll in

and you'll see babies hand prints and footprints on your windshield like left in the fog and you would also hear supposedly there's like hellhounds and stuff So I went to investigate myself with some of my friends while I was in college. We'd come home to my house. And we went there a couple times.

And I had a guy, one of my friends was actually Israeli. He was from Israel, came to our college. And he was in the Israeli army. So this guy, he was like not a wimp. And a tough guy. Like he could take me out, but he was a really pretty gentle guy, a really good friend. And I remember him and myself and three other of my friends were all there. And we got to the graveyard at night.

We got out. You're not really supposed to go there now because the haunted house that was there was ripped down because people were getting hurt in there because it was abandoned and falling apart. And you weren't supposed to be there, but we went anyway. And I remember he would knock it out of the car. He was like shaking. and I've never seen him be scared. Like I said, this guy was in the military. He served, I believe, two years.

He's half Arab, half Jewish, so I believe the Jewish people are required to serve two years, and he had the choice because he was only half, and he did serve the term. But, like, this guy was shaking. He wouldn't get out of the car. I got out of the car and a couple of my other friends, and we literally were there for a minute or two,

and it got like, we didn't see anything, but it was like that tangible fear again, but I was not the only one feeling that, like we all felt like something was there. And we peeled out. We just got out there.

So we went there more than once, and every time I went there, it was the same result. I guess I never saw anything, but it was like a tangible, like there's something bad there. But anyway, that would lead me into, I guess, college. I ended up going to a Bible school in Rochester, New York area.

And that's actually right around when my sleep paralysis started. I remember freaked me out. I didn't know what it was. I would wake up, gasping for breath, not being able to breathe, not being able to move. Like, my eyes would be wide open. Feeling very malicious presence. in the room with me. I've never seen anything, mostly because a lot of times I wouldn't look. I would try and shut my eyes and go back to sleep just to get out of the state I was in. Because it, I mean, it happened quite often. Sometimes I go like months without happening, but then it would happen a couple times in a week. People who I went to college with said that there were several witches that lived around the college. And this is, again, you know, college lore. And that they were always trying to let curse it because the college itself was, it's actually pretty old.

And it was built up on a hill at the highest point in that area and that the witches had wanted that area because of it being the highest point. And that's where they wanted to do their rituals and their worship or whatever. Anyway, I don't know if that had anything to do with the sleep paralysis other than that's when it started and went on for years. I also when I was younger a teenager I had become very addicted to pornography and you know I believe I knew in my heart that it wasn't right. This is something I shouldn't be involved in. And I remember that, you know, it carried throughout a lot of my life. And I met my wife at college and we got married after she was finished. I was a three-year school.

And I remember that even when we were first married, I was having severe sleep paralysis. I've always been in, and I don't know if this, again, has anything to do with it. I've always been in when I was younger anyway. I was into horror movies. When I was a teenager, I actually almost got involved with the occult. Just because when I was younger, I kind of didn't take my faith seriously. I was kind of like that's my parents thing. I want to be my own person.

So I don't really know. I never actually got involved with it. It was a lot of kind of research on it and just very intrigued by like spiritual realities and stuff, especially because of all the things I had witnessed or felt throughout the years. I was just, you know, looking for answers. And I knew that, you know, I didn't study the Bible very seriously

when I was younger. I knew the Bible. I knew about it, but I didn't study it. I went looking for answers in other places. And unfortunately, being at Bible college, there was a couple of professors or, you know, teachers there who talk about those kind of things, but it's not a topic among Christianity that's talked about enough. Oh, you find that too, huh? Yeah. It's not, it's like when I was there, we're going to teach you theology. We're going to, we want you to read this book that's like, weighs 50 pounds, carrying in your bag with you. And it's like the most boring thing. Like I could hardly get through the books or I'd fall asleep because it was all

like the foundations of Pentecostal theology or, um, not to say that they probably don't have good stuff in them, but I just couldn't get it. It's all like man's doctrines. You know what I mean? Yeah. People's opinions of what the Bible says rather than what does the Bible say. And, um, I mean,

Bible school is cool because I made a lot of connections. I made friends. I met my wife there. But, you know, they just don't address, I believe, like I said, there's only a couple people on campus, a couple of the teachers who would address these issues. But it wasn't addressed enough. Because people have these experiences. They experience things they can't explain. I've met a lot of people in my lifetime personally who have experienced things.

Like, my dad's told me some bizarre stories. So with my mom. And, like, they've done missionary work to India. my mom's been to Israel. My dad's, they've been to Mexico. They used to travel all over the place. And it's like not enough people talk about this and try to make it relevant. You know, they don't make it relevant. They don't speak on what does the Bible say about this. It's, this is a real thing. You're not crazy, you know. Um, so anyway, that's kind of a tangent. That's all right. I understand completely. I've been on that rant many times on this show.

so I totally understand where you're coming from. Yeah. And like, like I said, I had this addiction that went into my marriage and I literally had sleep paralysis a lot. I became a pastor when I was about 25. And that was kind of just weird how that happened. But I still had this addiction. And, you know, I'm not ashamed to say this over the radio.

This is part of my testimony. This is part of my wife and my testimony that we've been sharing recently at several places. Because I know that even when I was a pastor, I had this problem. I could go maybe long periods of time and I would repent and then I would just find myself falling back into it. And literally, when I had this problem of the pornography addiction, it's when I would have these sleep paralysis episodes for years. and it was just this like it was almost like I was being toyed with. You know, you wake up in the night, you felt that something was there, something was wrong, and hardly being able to breathe, having this like terror and a weight on you,

and like not having an answer for it. And it's like there was times when literally I would try and say the name of Jesus. And I could barely get it out because I couldn't even hardly talk, let alone breathe. But I found out those times I could say that, say the name of Jesus, usually, or not usually, it would subside. And then there was times where I would just try and calm down and put my body back to sleep and then wake up in the morning. But they were some of the most terrifying experiences I had. And I fully believe because I was in, I was living a hypocritical life. You know, I had this addiction.

It was disrespectful to God. It was disrespectful to my wife. And it says in the Bible that, you know, when you commit these sexual sins, you sin against your own body. And I believe, again, like I said before, it opens a door. But anyway, also during that time when we, because when I was pastoring the church, we had moved from New York to the northern Pennsylvania, Bradford County. That's where my wife is from right near the border, New York, and PA. And that's where I was pastoring for about four years. And while we lived in this, we lived in a farmhouse.

It was a family owned plot of land. And I had some goats and chickens and stuff. And I remember one night my wife and I were out in the yard of our house. And we looked up and there was this bright light. And it was reddish. And it was hovering like, I don't know if it'd say over our fields, like our pasture. But like kind of over where our pasture met the woods in that area. Because it wasn't super high up.

and it was literally just sitting there. And there was, I mean, it was not a helicopter. You would have heard the sound. Like as close as it was to us, you would have heard something. There's no towers right there. So it wasn't any kind of tower. This thing was just there, and it was bright. And I remember there was a car coming down past our house,

and it was probably like 9, 10 o'clock because it was dark out. The car actually pulled over in front of our house, and the people in the car got out, and they're staring at it. Like, what is this thing? and then it was gone. That's as much as happened with that. I don't know what it was. Did you get a chance to talk to those people?

No, we kind of just went back in our house and they got back in there. Like they left. Well, actually, I think I did say what was that like out loud? And they were like, I don't know. And then they left. That was it. Like we didn't walk over to them. They just kind of must have been on their way somewhere.

But it was one of those things it was puzzling. like we weren't afraid or anything. It was just like, what is it? I said my wife, I'm like, it must have been some sort of UFO. I don't know. Now, if you say that's aliens, if that's like a demonic apparition or if that's a government, I don't know. Secret project, I have no idea, but it was there and it was literally, things don't just hover without making sound. Unless it's a drone, but this would have to be a really, really big drone.

Okay. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'll just be honest. I don't know. I would love to give you a whole bunch of answers on it. As far as the size of it, it's hard to tell. Like I said, it appeared to be over the, like where the pasture met the woods. I don't know if it would be as big as like, I don't know, like, I don't know. I'm trying to have a hard time, like finding what I could compare it to. Like maybe a helicopter size, but it was round, like a round sphere glowing in the sky. with no sound. So that's what it was. And that was in

upstate New York, upstate Pennsylvania? Yeah, right. I don't know if you're familiar with Elmira, New York. Yeah. We were a half an hour south of there, like right over the border. So I mean, you weren't far from like Williamsport. No, we don't live too far from there. Or we didn't live too far from there. Maybe an hour a halfish. So you had a UFO encounter also in

Phoenixville, right? In Phoenixville, Pennsylvania. And I'm very familiar, Phoenixville. I actually, that's where my terminal is. I drive truck out of Phoenixville. Okay. Yeah, my wife and I, we had almost gotten divorced after we moved down to this area because of my issues. And she had some things that she had to work to as well.

So I lived in Schwanksville and then she moved out and we were separated for a little over a year. But we got back together and we found a house to rent. right in Phoenix, so right on 29 near, you know where Black Rock Road and 29 are. Oh, yeah. There was a farm that's like some of the only farms left there. There's like two farms. One, the guy's house is really visible, and then the other one's kind of hidden in some trees along the road. But we rented this farmhouse.

They had a barn attached to it. And we could just about see the Providence Town Center, which is where there's like a Wegmans and, you know, that big area down the road there. You could just about see that from where we live. lived at night and from the house you could see the field next door or the farmer lived who was our landlord and every night there were these two lights right on the horizon um so i'm i'm talking more toward collegeville if you're looking from where i was at venixville in the sky and there was these two reddish orange lights actually they were pretty close hue to the thing i saw in

upstate Pennsylvania. Same kind of hue. But you can tell these were farther out. And literally my wife and I were like, what is this? Because it seemed like every night, just about every night for like a week. And then we'd see them periodically after. They would be on the horizon in the same formation, formation. Like just staggered apart a little bit, one seemingly higher than the other.

But they would just hover there. And yeah, I know there's a lot of air traffic in this area. area, but there's nothing that I've ever seen that's as predictable as this. And the one night, the one started like they were in formation, and then the one started moving. And it literally flew right over our house. No noise. Just this red light.

It was dark out, so it's hard to tell how high up it was. It went right over. And then the other one that was on the horizon started moving after this one went over our house. So, like, they were moving in a formation, but like I said, every night, these things would be in the same spot in the sky, in the same pattern. And, like, sometimes they would both move, and then one would stop, and then the other one would keep moving. It was just really bizarre. Like I said, they would just stop midair and then, like, start moving again.

So, and they were both the same color, like a reddish, like orb hue, and they were up high. So I couldn't tell you, you know, if they had any. discernible shape or not, other than they were red lights. Okay. Yeah, I know that area. I mean, when you're driving down, like, the Turnpike coming from, like, the Ben Salem area to, let's just say, the King of Prussia exit, you'll see lights in the sky completely aligned. Like, I mean, perfectly spaced. But a lot of times people think that, oh, my, like, I've had people say to me, I saw UFOs last night. They described to me, like, no, man, like, that's just airplanes coming into the Philly Airport. Like, like,

like it's very organized like they have they it's um they they they they will uh they're they're perfectly spaced and that's for a reason because everything's down to the timing and everything of bringing these planes in for landing but what you're saying is what you saw actually was stationary and then started moving right yeah like they would move information and then stop and then one would keep going and when it went over my house it was not high up like it wasn't it like If it was an airplane, I would have definitely heard it. Like, it was, I don't know, 100 feet up. And like, I've seen military planes.

I've seen them, like, you know, the ones that they look like a plane, but they have helicopter props on the top of the wings. I forget what they're called. So you're saying this thing that was 100 feet up in the air? I'd say about, like, it wasn't. That's really low. Yeah, it wasn't, like I said, it wasn't as high as a plane would be. So like you could see them far enough away

But when they came close Like that you could tell it I could tell it wasn't very high It was just so dark out that like with it being the light it was I couldn't see any shape to the craft Other than this was a red light That they would periodically like I said some nights they would stop And like I said be stationary And then start moving again

But they were coming toward me so Like and they weren't like super high And like I told you before, I try to be rational. Like I've seen airplanes. I like, you know, there's tons of air traffic in this area in the Philly area. So like, I try to be rational. Okay, is this some kind of a plane? Is it a helicopter?

Well, if it's a helicopter, these guys are really good pilots. But also if it's a helicopter, be making noise. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know. Maybe I'm just being crazy or paranoid. I don't. No, I agree. I mean, if it's a helicopter, it's going to make noise. I mean, I've had help. I have helicopters fly over my house all the time. And they make noise. And they're much higher than 100 feet. If you had, if you had a helicopter flying over your house or anywhere near you within 100 feet, you're going to hear it. And so it was not a helicopter. There couldn't have been. Yeah, because like where we lived upstate in Bradford County, there was a hospital there called the Guthrie. And they had a helicopter pad, a helipad. So,

I mean, I know what helicopters look like at night. I know what they look like during the day. I know what they sound like. And usually it's not just one light. Usually it's got, you know, flashing lights on it, like an airplane, typically anyway. And sometimes a bright spotlight as well. Like this glow I saw, it wasn't like a spotlight.

It wasn't it. It was just a red light, like an orb. And that's, you know, every time I've seen it, that's the best way. And I don't know if that's what you call. light orb. I don't know if it was a craft. But they said these things weren't like, like they were clearly visible. I mean, as long as you, if you're watching the skies at this, I mean, some people don't ever look up, I guess. I just, I look up. I look, you know, I just like to try and be observant. I love looking at the stars when I can see them.

Yeah, I don't know. I have no idea, but it definitely wasn't a helicopter. It definitely wasn't a plane. You said to me that your dad has talked to angels. Peked my interest. Tell me about it. Nice. All right. Well, the one story that he's told me, and I'll tell you as much as he told me, the ministry they were involved with was out of Arkansas, down near Little Rock, I believe. And yet the end, is that the Inter-Ondac Mountains? anyway, they're in the middle of the mountains that are down there. And sorry, I probably just made someone cringe with my geography. But they lived in this like the ministry owned, basically.

I guess you call it a compound. And I don't want this to sound weird. But they had a Bible school there, like a ministry training center. So they did live there for several years. and they were self-sufficient mostly because of their location. They weren't near a lot of stuff. Like they would get certain things,

but they had a farm with milk and meat and all that. But anyway, my dad helped build some of the buildings they had there. And so he was working in a building one day with another gentleman. And my dad said the room got really bright, like super bright. And there was a man standing there. dressed in white and my dad said it was an angel

and I said well how do you know it was an angel? My dad's like, well, I know it wasn't Jesus because my dad's like, if it was Jesus, I would have been on my face worshipping him but my dad's like I didn't have any inclination to worship this being other than he was definitely

a celestial being. So my dad said that he spoke with my dad and he told my dad that time is short and there's a lot of work to be done. And apparently he went into detail and told my dad some things that my dad said he's not allowed to repeat, things that were for him personally. But the angel addressed him by name, said time is short. And like I said, I don't know how long this encounter lasted, but my dad spoke.

You know, he had a message from my dad, and my dad to this day still will not tell me. He's been obedient what he was told not to repeat some of the things that were said to him. and I won't lie to you. I've been extremely curious. And then my dad said then it was over and he was gone, almost like, boom. And my dad, I'm like, well, dad, did the other guy in the room see it? And my dad said, well, not necessarily, but he said the guy was like pale as a ghost and the guy could tell that something had happened. Like the guy was kind of like in like awe.

Like he didn't see the angel, but he was well aware that something unmatched. like supernatural was happening. I guess you could liken it to the story of like in the Bible when Saul became Paul, Saul's on the road to Damascus and Jesus Christ appears to Saul, said that the men who were with him didn't see Jesus, but they heard like a booming noise and there was a light. When my dad saw this angel, he's like, that's kind of how this guy was. He knew there was something going on and he was like utterly freaked out, but he didn't see the angel. Only my dad did. So it was only meant for my dad.

And then my dad said also, I'm not sure what the occasion was for this, but he was in the woods one day. I don't know if he was hunting or praying, but my dad said he looked around and saw several angels in the woods with him. He didn't elaborate too much more on that. But you said that there was like probably six or seven of them. So he was in the woods and there, he saw angels with him? Yeah, that was the second encounter. this was before I was born he didn't say if they did or not

he just said that he looked and saw them other than that I don't know I mean but it always piqued my interest the fact that he won in particular in the building when he was doing construction he actually interacted with and had a message for him he had a crazy past so if you knew where he came from

and where he is now that's a crazy story all in itself honestly you'd probably really enjoy talking to him for every story I told you he's got several more. He was a pretty bad guy when he was younger and God changed him drastically. But that's just one of, he said, you know, my mom and him, or him and my mom, before I was born, my sister was born though at that point because she was, she lived in Arkansas with them. That they lived in a trailer that a witch had died in and that they would like leave the house.

and when they came back, the gas would be on on the stove, like stuff like that. Like they would definitely turn everything off and then they come home and the gas would be on. And if they had blown or if they would have like, you know, turned a light on or something, they would have been blown up. They said that happened several times. So either someone was living in the remote area of Arkansas and was messing with them or my dad was, you know, convinced that it was like there was some sort of possession or demonic activity going on. Um, so that area they lived in in Arkansas had a lot of crazy stuff happen. And like I said, I couldn't even tell you all of it because I wasn't around then.

I would visit Arkansas with them late on when, after I was born, because they would, being involved with that ministry, they would travel down there. And I would go down with them and we'd stay for like a couple of times at a time. But I never lived there when they lived there. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I used to joke around and they'll say, well, my dad got to see an angel. I got to see a demon, so you know, because that's fair.

You got the base covered. Yeah, right. My mom had some weird experiences when she was younger. I mean, like I told you before, my family's not unfamiliar with things like this. Like my dad's done exorcisms for people, like in their house. He went over and prayed with these people who were having some crazy stuff happen. I guess the boyfriend was on drugs or something and, like, beating the wife. and him and my mom went over.

This is when I was older, not living there anymore, but they went into the city of Buffalo and prayed with these people, this lady, and the boyfriend came home and he started manifesting. And they cast demons out of him.

And my dad said, well, that was happening, like the pantry doors were like flying open, like poltergeist kind of stuff. And they helped, you know, deliver this man from demonic possession and prayed with them. So, I mean,

I guess, you know, my family's, dealt with some crazy stuff. And unfortunately, I'm no exception. Do you think this is a thing that's going to happen throughout your life? You know, I don't know. Like, being older now, I'm in my 30s.

I'm 34. Ever since, like, my wife and I reconciled and we've been, I'm, like, way more serious about God now. Like, I'm not all a holy roller. Like, I'm not, I would never lord that over anyone. It's just that I finally found my relationship,

my own personal relationship. with God. And it's something that everyone has to do. It's like, either believe in them or don't, like, you can't rely on someone else's faith to get you through. And ever since I've developed a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and actually taken my faith walk seriously, things have changed. I don't experience things the way I used to when I was younger. We bought a house over in Royers Ford area, and it's our first home we've owned. My wife, and myself and our little girl. And she's woken up at nights whenever she's slept in her room, like screaming.

And I don't know if this is typical night terrors, but I've felt some creepy stuff in this place, and I've prayed over this house. And I haven't had any craziness since then, since I, you know, went through and prayed through these rooms. And my daughter sleeps with us in our bed now. So, you know, I believe that children are particularly sensitive to. They haven't, you know, had the biased opinions of the world inflicted on them yet. You know, they haven't been told that things aren't real or this is fake.

You know, they just see what they see. And kids are, you know, honest about it, about things. You know, like kids say the darkest things. They just, they don't have that influence. And that's why Jesus said, you know, to have childlike faith of just, you know, maybe we can't answer all the questions about God, but it's just enough that we believe in him and have that relationship. So I have my little girl

And you know I take a lot of things seriously now And like I don't know If I ever do run into something again I know what I need to do now to get rid of it I would hope that I would have some good encounters Like my dad did I think some people have that gift

I believe you know people are Some people are more sensitive to supernatural things I guess I'm I would say I'm one of them And I know some other people that are as well but as far as new encounters, I've had nothing too new lately as far as manifestations. And like you said, I don't know. I know I live in a weird place. I live right near where Penhurst.

It's practically like behind my house, basically. If you go far enough back, it's right over the river. And that's a pretty crazy place. Have you ever been there? You know, no, I've wanted to. One night my wife and I were on the other side of the river because we live right near a Penhurst road, but we live on the side that's closed, like, you know, the bridge is out. So if you're familiar with that anyway.

And so we went to the other side of the river and we went down the road that goes there. And I saw all these signs saying, you know, like turn back, trespassing. And I'm like, I don't know if we should be here. And we started to get close. And I guess you can see I can doubt because I didn't want someone to call the police on us. I didn't because I've, a gentleman I work with works right or lives. I'm sorry, right by Pennhurst road there. like on the side that it's on.

And he's ridden his bike down there in the past and actually had people come out of the woods and be like, hey, what are you doing? And he's like, just ride my bike. And they usually let him go. Like I didn't want to get like a ticket or get like cited for trespassing. So I actually kind of, we chicken down and drove down the road away from it along the river and went home. Yeah, I've been there. I mean, I was a vendor there this year at Paracon. and it's an interesting location. I'll tell you that. I mean, I really don't get spooked out a whole lot

anymore about, you know, pretty much anything. And I was there and I really didn't get spooked out a whole lot. I mean, I walked through the buildings with my wife and my son. And obviously, during the day, it's a different story. I did have something what I don't know how to describe it other than the fact that I felt something touched the back of my leg. I leaned over. I I picked up my son and when I started walking with him, right on my Achilles heel. It felt like something just brushed against my Achilles heel. It was summertime. I had shorts on.

I look around. Obviously, there's nothing there. My wife standing probably about six, seven feet away from me. I don't know what it was. I don't know. The only natural explanation I could say would be that I picked my son up and he's on my hip and some dirt fell off his shoe and brushed against the hair of my leg. that's a possible explanation.

Other than that, I have no idea other than maybe being a paranormal experience. But even that, I mean, it's just like whatever, you know? I don't get scared of a whole lot. And I think it's just because of, I don't know, I just don't get scared about this kind of stuff a whole lot. Yeah, I hear you. Well, my dad actually had a cousin who was a patient in Pennhurst years ago. See, I knew there was something weird about you. There you go.

There it is. Now, I'm just kidding. Yeah, right. Well, my dad said it was really sad Because when he was a kid He had a cousin I don't know if I'd say it was Freddie or something But my dad said that his parents put him there

And you know like every so often they'd pick him up for a day And this is like the 50s or 60s And like they bring him over and my dad would play with him And my dad's like there was nothing inherently wrong with him Like he may have been a little slow You know He probably had like a learning disability But my dad's like that's the shame

in that he said that people used to take their kids if they or you know family members and if they had even the slightest stuff and they didn't want to deal with the disability they'd throw them in there and it's like my dad said like basically it's like to ease their guilty conscience of having their son there they would come pick them up every so often and like take him for like a weekend and then they drop them back in there and then not been and yeah i mean that that was a big problem back then man i mean people dropping people off there and not coming back uh that you you would go 20 years without seeing a family member. Yeah, it's sad.

I've heard a lot of crazy stuff about that place. And my dad grew up in Warriorsford, Spring City areas. So, I mean, my family is actually all from this area. I'm like the only weird one that was not born here. So my dad used to like run, you know, all up and down. He's going the abandoned building. Some of them were still functioning back then. You know, he's very familiar with it.

And like I said, he, He told me a little bit about that and some of the other things when he was a kid, you know, just crazy stuff that happened around here in this area. But, I mean, that's, as far as my experience, that's all I got for you. I was hoping just, you know, if anyone listens to this, that, you know, if even one person's like, you know, I just want them to know you're not insane. Don't, you know, just there are things that happen. And, you know, I don't have all the answers.

like to think I do. But I believe what I believe, according to what the Bible says and, you know, what I've been brought up and what I studied. And I believe that Jesus has power over these things. And I know everybody has their own opinion, their own belief, and they're entitled to that. This is just what's worked for me and what I've experienced in my own life. Well, Michael, I appreciate you coming on and sharing your experiences, man. It's been, it's been interesting to listen to. I mean, it's been something that you really dealt with. your whole life. And knowing that you're kind of local to my general area and stuff, it's been interesting hearing some of these UFO stories and stuff. And obviously, I've mentioned my own

experiences within this area with UFOs and stuff. So I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing them. Yeah, right. Like I said, some of the people I work with, even Rodney, you met when you were by that one day. He's had some, you know, some of his own stuff. And I wouldn't share any of that. But, you know, he's, there's a lot of people, and he's not the only one. There's other people that have experienced various things. And I wouldn't, you know, want to take away from them or share their stories. It's what's happened to them. I just share with you what's happened to me and some of what's happened to my family. So, well, that's the show, everybody. I really hope you enjoyed it. And if you did enjoy it, please share the show with your

friends. That's the best thing you can do to help the show grow. It's just to share the show with your friends. That way, more people hear what you are enjoying. And until next week, friends, stay safe. Take care. And remember, the truth was such a free. But first, they'll piss you off. Bye.