The Confessionals - 3: "Hatman" and Ghostly Interactions

Episode Date: February 5, 2017

Lindsay comes onto the show tonight to share here experience with the "Hatman" that she saw as a little girl. She also dives into the repeating patterns of ghostly experiences and interactions she had growing up as a child in different old Pennsylvania homes.  Website: www.theconfessionalspodcast.com Email: [e-mail] Facebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcast Twitter: @TConfessionals   Interview Audio Clips: Published by - Shannon Legro of Into The Fray (Website: www.intothefrayradio.com)   Outro Instrumental: Artist: PnR Productions Song: High Life

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Say 50% on the new Sleep Number 360 limited edition smart bed plus special financing only for a limited time. To find your local sleep number store, go to sleep number.com. Special financing subject to credit approval. Minimum monthly payments required. See store for details. Hey everyone, it's Tony. Before we get into tonight's show, I just want to remind you that whatever venue you're actually listening to the show on right now, just look around on the page.

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Make sure things are all cleat. Clear for water. For the rest of the right. You guys hear that? Welcome to the confessional booth, everyone. I'm your host, Tony Merkel, and I would like to officially welcome you to tonight's show. I got a great show for you tonight. It actually is going to feature my wife.

And the way this whole thing came about is very unique and interesting in itself. But before we get into that, I want to play this audio clip for you that's going to help draw the picture for you as to where we're going to go with tonight's show. I would say I was probably maybe kindergarten first, maybe second grade. My encounter happened and my grandparent's world. I would stay there quite a bit. And I was sleeping in one of their bedrooms. I was laying sort of on my side, looking, I guess, looking to the left of the bed. And from the side of the dresser, that's where the figure emerged.

Coming out of the darkness on the one side of the cabinet was the figure. And what I saw was the trench coat, the pop collar, the padoro. And it would just kind of look out. and it would kind of get wider and whiner and whiner and then it would shrink back in. I never felt any fear or like I've got to get out of this room. I've got to scream. I've got to get somebody's attention. I never felt that.

Okay, so that was some audio clips that I put together for you. The interview was actually done on Into the Fray. It's a podcast by Shannon LaGro. You should definitely go check it out. The guy she interviewed Chris, he's actually part of my Facebook group, Pennsylvania Sasquatch, search. He got a hold of me and just wanted me to listen to the show because he was on it. He wanted to make sure that I heard what he had to say. I was really glad I tuned in. And it actually stuck out in my mind that whole week. I was thinking about it a lot. And that Sunday, Lindsay, was it a Sunday

we were going out to Jersey? Yes, Sunday afternoon. Okay, Sunday afternoon. We were driving out to Jersey because I was taking Lindsay to a baby shower and I was telling her about it. And I figured, you know what, we have like an hour and a half ride ahead of us. I might as well just put it on my phone and play it. So that's what we did. And we started listening to the audio from the interview. And Lindsay, you were quiet and you're always quiet. So nothing's different there. But I actually was driving down the road and I kind of glanced out of my, that corner of my eye. And I saw that your face kind of looked like you were almost like horrified or I almost kind of looked like you were getting ready to cry. And I wasn't sure if you were scared. I couldn't imagine

that you were actually scared. I wasn't sure what was going on. But then you told me that you actually had some experiences that really resembled what they were talking about in the show. And so I was like, you know what? We need to make a show about what you encountered when you were a kid growing up because ladies and gentlemen, this stuff that my wife told me in the car to Jersey about a month ago are stories that I had never heard before.

I don't know how we've been married for almost 10. years and we've never talked about this stuff and it's just it's unbelievable because here I am doing this show for you guys and I'm living with a woman who has an incredible story to share and I didn't even know it. So Lindsay actually shared this story with me on the way out to Jersey. It's fantastic and I really can't wait to get into it with you guys tonight. Lindsay, how are you doing? I'm good. Good, good. I wanted to introduce you to the show. Ladies and gentlemen, this is my wife lindsay she's here in studio with us it's going to be a great show today we're going to be talking about the hat man that's what you heard the interview earlier in the show here

um chris had seen what they call a hat man which is a shadow figure uh that typically wears some kind of like fedora and popped collar and when lindsay was hearing this it jogged her memory of what happened when she was a little girl and so lindsay let's just let's get into it so people can hear what you experienced when you were a little girl. Let's start with the hatman. There's a lot of other stories that we're going to get into tonight that you actually shared with me, but I want to start with the hatman. So just walk us through what happened there. Well, this is a memory that I've always had it. It's not like it was buried and I suddenly remembered it, but it was weird because I've kind of been telling myself, I guess, for over 20 years, that it was probably just something

in my imagination that I saw when I was a kid. And so, I never really put much stock in it or paid a lot of attention to it. But what was really bizarre to me, I guess explains my near-tier experience when we were listening to the podcast, is that I never heard of Hatman before. So while I'm listening to this podcast that you were playing, it suddenly dawned on me. You know, you had mentioned the name Hatman. And I was like, oh, Hatman, you know, what's that? That sounds frightening.

It's scary supervillain or something. But then when I was listening to the podcast, I realized this thing that people see, this shadow person, you know, in a hat, I've actually seen that. And I just, like I mentioned before, I thought it was my imagination and I just put it away for all these years. And then when I realized that people, other than me, I've actually seen something so similar, it was like dawned on me. Oh my gosh. Maybe it was actually a real event and not just imagination. Yeah. I mean, before we get into the story, when you were hearing this interview go on, what was running through your mind?

Was it like a aha moment or were you like, holy crap, that was real? Like, what was that feeling that you had in that moment? Could you describe that? It wasn't like, aha, I saw hat man. Yes. It was more like, oh, yeah, like you said, oh crap. This is actually, it was almost like not validation, but it was like almost. almost cathartic in a way because it was like, I mean, I thought it was my imagination. I never told

anyone. And then suddenly it was like, no, people have seen this and it may have in fact been real. That's incredible. Yeah. So, all right, let's just get into it. I mean, what happened? I mean, you were a little girl. Yeah, so I was a little girl. I was living, I lived in an old house at the time. And it was really, I mean, the experience was so brief. I mean, seconds. if that. And it was just one time, but it stands out in my memory because it was just such a weird thing. So I was home alone. I would probably want to say I was, I don't know, it was maybe seven or eight, which sounds, you know, too young to be home alone. But I was sick a lot as a kid. And so I was home alone because I remember my mom had to go to the pharmacy to pick up medicine for me.

And there was no one else to watch me and I was really too sick to go with her. So she went to the store to get me medicine, she was gone, you know, maybe 30 minutes. So while she was gone, I just stayed in the living room on the couch with my little blanket and the TV and I was just, you know, sitting there waiting for her feeling sick. And so I was sitting on the couch facing the TV. And I just started to feel all of a sudden a little bit eerie. And then I kind of felt a little bit cold. And then I just felt you know, apprehensive, I guess is the word I want to use. I felt a little bit jittery and then I just got full on kind of scared and creeped out. And so I kind of out of the corner of my eye, like I turned my eyes, not my head, but my eyes to the side, to the left. And next to the living room there was

a room that we actually used as a playroom and that connected to the kitchen. So out of the corner of my eye, I could see the doorway to the playroom, and then from there I could see like light filtering in from the kitchen. Now, the playroom light was off. And when I looked in the corner of my eye in the doorway was what looked like a solid shadow in the shape of a man, wearing a hat with a high collar and sort of, I want to say like a duster type coat, like duster-length coat. And it was very brief and it was just like a, just an outline. Um, but solid. So no features, but clearly like a shadow.

And it was darker than the dark room behind it. Um, and I, I, I didn't move. I just paused for a second and just kept looking out of the corner of my eye. And then I just, I mean, I didn't know what to do. I was a little kid. I was scared. I was home alone. Um, I just, I paused.

I waited. It just was there. And then I whipped around really fast and I pulled my blanket up my head and I buried my head in the couch cushions until my mom came home. So like I said, it was so very brief, but it really is kind of burned into my memory. Yeah, I mean, that would burn into anybody's memory, I would think. When you said you saw the figure with the hat, what kind of hat was it? Because they say that it typically has some kind of fedora hat. but also I have heard that it's a top hat almost what kind of hat were you looking at

so mine was it was actually a top hat okay um the whole figure was sort of looked Victorian I want to say it was like Victorian period top hat that high white men's collar not that it was white but that that high collar that men used to wear usually a white shirt yeah it was that high collar and then almost like not quite a top collar Tuxedo jacket, but like an overcoat that they might have worn over their tuxedo jacket that kind of went maybe to close to knee, knee length. That's what the outline was. And it was very distinct.

That high collar, that top hat, that stood out the most. And then the coat kind of, I could see it, but it almost like blended into the legs, I want to say. And that's really actually interesting to me because I know a lot of people see the trench coat and the fedora have. But what I saw was really interesting to me now reflecting on it because the house that I lived in at the time was actually a Victorian-era home. It was about, I want to say, 95 years old at the time that I was there, which was probably about 1995, 96. So it just, in retrospect, is very strange that I saw a Victorian-type figure in a Victorian house.

Yeah, absolutely. Now, you said the shadow figure was darker than the dark room it was in front of. Now, I heard, I believe I actually heard it on into the fray when they were doing the interview with Chris. But I heard that, I think it was Shannon said that the shadow figures that she actually experienced and saw, I believe she said it was in Utah, they were so deeply dark. Like it was like you got a pitch black and then you have this, which is even darker than that. Is that kind of like what you saw? Did you or was it could you describe, I guess, the depth of darkness? Because if it stood out from a dark room, obviously it was pretty dark then.

It was dark. It was like a solid shadow. I wouldn't say shadow. It was just a solid type of form. But you could tell that it wasn't a real person. I don't know if that makes a lot of sense. but it was definitely darker than the room beyond it. Like I said, there was light filtering in from the kitchen,

and the light was off in that particular doorway, you know, that it was standing in, but the room was still lit up from the kitchen light. The figure was not. The figure was just pretty black and almost solid. I don't know if you've ever seen those people that they sent, like cut out wooden people that, people sometimes put in their yards, like they lean up against a lamp post. Like a farmer?

They're cut out. Yeah, they're cut out of a farmer. And he's even got a little hat on. It was like that. It was black like that and featureless. Gotcha. So, but I mean, it was an outline that you could actually see the outline, but you couldn't see features within the outline.

Yeah. I mean, out of the corner of my eye, I could make out a top hat, a collar, a coat. It was definitely a shape. You say out of the corner of your eye. Now, was it that you were looking? using peripheral vision or were you actually able to did you actually turn your eyeballs in your head and lay eyes on this thing? Oh yeah I turned my eyeballs in my head. Okay so so it wasn't like you were staring straight and you just saw something with peripheral vision that you think was a shadow figure

like you actually you're scared you have that feeling I think you said you were cold and you're sitting there head straight and you just kind of like look over with your eyeballs and you actually see this thing as much as you can strain your eyes to one side that's what I I was doing. Okay. I mean, that in itself almost sounds like it's out of a movie, you know, like where people are, they just look out of the corner of their eye just to see and they see it or whatever or nothing's there. That's, that's really interesting. Now, did you see or not see, did you happen to hear any noises? Did it leave any other senses? Did you smell anything? Did you hear anything? Or was it just strictly visual? No, nothing. It was just, it was just that feeling that really

intense eerieness and then that that visual that was just suddenly there gotcha and you said that when you got scared you hit underneath the covers i did i pulled the blanket over my head and then i i flipped around and buried my my head right in the couch cushions um so i i mean that was it it was seconds i didn't look up again and i never saw it again and so you you don't know if it stayed there for a while or if it was a fleeting moment like because you you hit underneath the cover so right yeah it could have been standing there for a while it could have been standing there at some of my mom walked in the door, I have no idea, but I didn't, I didn't want to know. I was that unsettled by it. Right. When you were underneath the covers being scared, did you still have

that feeling that you had that made you look over there? I did. Okay. I did. That definitely stayed. Okay. Because I mean, from you and I talking about this, that feeling that you experience is often a tell sign that something's going on for you because you've experienced that feeling throughout your entire life. And you've had different experience. experiences. That hatman experience is something that I don't think anybody ever really expects to experience. And I never, as your husband, never would have expected for you to tell me that story. You know, when I told you about the episode that I listened to on Into the Fray, I was just, you know, we were just having conversation. And it was a long ride. And you know how I,

you know, I listen to podcasts all the time. So I figured, yeah, Let's just relisten to it because it was a good one. I never expected to hear you say that you've seen something like that. I never expected to share that. I mean, like I just said a little bit ago, I just thought it was my imagination and there wasn't any reason to tell anybody. I even tried to think in my head, you know, okay, what was in the room behind it that maybe I just thought that, you know, it took that shape based on something in the room.

And there really isn't any other explanation. I mean, I remember in the room behind it, there was a vacuum that my mom had sitting out. But, I mean, a vacuum isn't really a person shape. So there's nothing. I've tried to play it off in my head. But now this almost feels like confirmation that maybe it wasn't just your imagination. Yeah. And, you know, I don't understand that totally when people say that because you know me.

I'm the kind of person. Like when I experience something, whether it's awesome or not, I got to talk about it. I'm a talker. You know me. And so if I were to experience something like that, I think throughout my entire life, I would at one point or another be talking about it to somebody, you know, like, hey, I experienced it.

Like, any time a ghost shows on, a UFO or anything that's on TV, I hear a story, like, it would draw my memory and I'd want to talk about it. That's how I am. And so I have a hard time understanding how people experience these things, but never really talk about it. but it happens all the time. I mean, even with the whole Bigfoot scene that,

you know, I'm always rolling with, there's so many times that people, they experience something, a husband and wife, they experience something, but they don't talk about it. Or they actually experience it together,

and it's never talked about. And I just, I just find that really interesting. But yeah, I mean, this Hatman thing is just something that has really kind of grabbed my attention because ever since I heard that episode

and you sharing that with me, I've been looking at it and there's a lot of people that experience this stuff. And so I just think, I think it's really fascinating. So that's the end of the Hatman story. But we have more things to cover here. And from what I understand the Hatman story, the Hatman incident wasn't the first thing that happened to you in your life. And so what I want to do is I actually want to kind of backtrack a little bit.

And I want to take us through these incidences that you actually share. with me from beginning to end. So we'll start from the first one. We'll skip over the hat, man, because we already talked about that. And we'll just take it all the way up to the last story, which actually involves you and I that I totally forgot about until like a few weeks ago. It totally, and when we share this story, people are like, how do you forget that? I'm telling you, I have the worst memory. Like, you can vouch me, right? Lins? Like, my, my memory is so bad. And it's really not good for this kind of thing, but it is what it is. So let's just go into your very first experience that you had as a child.

How old were you? I want to say anywhere between three to five. Okay. The very first house that I lived in, I seemed to have lived in a number of old houses. So the first house that I lived in was a 200-year-old farmhouse. and all I really remember about the farmhouse was there were a number of occasions where I, for some reason, I would just stand at the bottom of the stairs, you know, the first floor, the stairs going up to the second floor, and I would just think that I heard a baby crying.

And that seems like nothing, you know, maybe I did, maybe I didn't, but I just, I remember that very clearly to the point where I even at one point, my mom actually, she ran a daycare. So during the day she had kids and babies in the home. And I asked her one evening if all of the parents had come to pick up their kids because I thought there was still a baby upstairs. And she said, no, they're all gone. But I just felt like I heard it clearly enough that I wondered if there really was still a kid up there. Yeah.

I mean, for everybody to totally understand who you are, and you have an incredible memory. And that's something that I've learned about you over the years. Something you probably don't like. I know. Like, you don't forget things. And it's incredible because a lot of times people forget their dreams. Like they'll wake up from a dream that's so vivid.

Five minutes later, they can't even grasp what they dreamt because it's just, for whatever reason, I don't understand how that all works. But people can't remember dreams a lot of times. But you remember dreams from when you're a child. Like, like, and in detail. Like, your, your memory is incredible, but somehow you're able to remember these dreams. And even, like, I remember you tell me stories from when you're, like this story here. You tell me stories from your little tiny girl.

Lindsay, I can't even remember back to when I was five, let alone two or three. But, I mean, it's just incredible your memory. So that's the first memory you had, which was hearing a baby cry upstairs. Of this sort of thing. Yeah, definitely. definitely that. And your mom said that, you know, all the babies were gone and you're just like, hmm, you know, I mean, you're a little kid. You don't know. It's just something you remember, you know. What was the next thing that happened? I don't know, like the order of all of these things,

but I know from this farmhouse, we moved into this Victorian era home where I saw, you know, had the Hatman experience. So there were a couple things that happened there to me over the years, maybe a period of five to six years between age five and 10 or 11 where things would happen. I would feel scared. So maybe I don't know what they were. I don't know if they were, you know, spiritual related things. I don't know if it was imagination. I don't know if it was just the wind sometimes.

But there were a couple experiences that I had there that stand out in my mind. Again, I don't remember the linear order of all of them. but there were, let me see, what should I start with, there was. Why don't you start with the doors that you told me about? I mean, I know it's a simple thing, but why don't you start with that? Because I don't want you forget that little detail. Okay. So there were two occasions that I remember where doors were just open that probably should not have been.

For instance, the first one that I'll talk about, this high. house that I lived in, it had a side porch with a single one door that we used all of the time. So we went in and out through this side porch. And then at the front of the house, the very front of the house, there were these really tall double doors. And we didn't use those. They were just, they were big, they were cumbersome. And so unless we were having a Christmas party or something, those doors stayed shut. I remember waking up one night in the middle of the night, I got up to use the bathroom, and one of those big giant double doors was just standing wide open to the sidewalk. So, I mean, anybody in the middle of the night could have just walked right in our house.

It was just very strange to wake up and have your house open and vulnerable like that. I don't know why. Like I said, we didn't use that door, but it was just standing wide open. And then the other occasion that I remembered is one time I was at home with the babysitter. And we were outside in the backyard playing. And when we came in the side door that we did use all the time, that was just standing wide open. And it had been shut.

And I mean, I believe it was locked at the time. That was just standing wide open. And the curtain was just, you know, moving as though it had just, as though almost as someone had run out. You know what I mean? Like the curtain just had that movement. Okay. To the side and then fell back into place.

So that was a little bit strange. I know the babysitter was freaked out about that. She didn't know, you know, if somebody broke in while she was babysitting. But so those were two just, just odd things, you know, and again, they could have been anything, but it just was a little weird. Babysitter thought she was going to get fired. Right, yeah. Well, why don't you, now, hold on a second.

Let me rewind here. The big doors, those were big doors that actually were in entrances to the house, right? Yes. And that was in the middle of the night. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Now, did you happen to tell your mom about it? Yeah, she was actually, she was up at the same time.

Because I think I was little enough that, you know, I didn't want to go to the bathroom alone. So I had gotten her and she, when we walked down to this landing together from the landing, you could see straight down to the doors. And she was just, you know, like, oh my gosh, what's going on? So she had me stay at the top of the landing and she ran down there and secured the door. But, I mean, I'm sure that that freaked her out a little bit too, not necessarily from like a spiritual standpoint. but from, again, is there someone in my house? It just should not have happened.

Right. Yeah, absolutely. All right, well, let's move on then to the next thing that I have written down here that you told me, the sounds of something moving above you. Can you talk about that a little bit? I was always, I never ever liked going to bed by myself. I didn't like being alone when it was dark. I just never, ever did.

So one thing that always bothered me in this home in particular was when I was in my bed alone trying to go to sleep. There were some nights where it would just sound like, I don't want to necessarily say walking or footsteps, but it felt like it seemed like it heard like there was movement above me in the attic. I think there actually in my room, it wasn't the attic directly above me. I think there was some kind of crawl space because I had that hole in my ceiling where you, you could, you know, put a ladder up and go up there. So it just, that kind of jarred me sometimes. I did bring that up to my mom once or twice.

She said maybe there were squirrels up there, but it was that kind of just a movement that I didn't think, you know, why should I be hearing anything up there? Yeah. Did it sound like possibly a person walking or like a critter, you know, scurrying along? Like, did it sound like it was feet walking, like two feet walking? Yeah, I wouldn't say heavy feet, but I definitely could have been, you know, light walking, definitely like a wooden type of movement on the ceiling or on the floor and the ceiling above me. Right. And how old are you at that point? Do you know?

I mean, I was there from, I was in that house from anywhere between age five to about 11. So I don't know what age, but it was somewhere in there. So these things happening in this house was about 5 to 11. And how old was the house? Again, about 100 years old? About the time I lived there, it was about between 95 to 100 years old. Okay. Okay, so it was quite old.

And this, again, may have nothing to do with anything. But I was always creeped out by this house in general because probably less than a block away on the other side of the street was this enormous cemetery. I don't know if anybody's ever been to Boyertown, Pennsylvania. That's where it is. In Boyertown, there's this huge, I think it's called Fairview Cemetery. It's just enormous. And it was literally, like I could look out my bedroom window and see it.

When I went to school in the morning, the bus stop was in front of the cemetery. So again, maybe it has nothing to do with anything, but it always creeped me out. Yeah, I can imagine. Now, I know you told me a story. Now, this isn't anything spooky or anything. Well, I mean some people might think it's spooky, but about that cemetery, one day, I think you said you were at the bus stop, for the bus? No. Okay, so here's the story. And it is weird. This was, this actually happened. This,

you know, I know, no imagination here. This happened to me. So I was playing with a friend. So this friend, his property, he lived across the street from me. His property budded right up to the cemetery. So we were playing at the very far edge so that we could actually see the cemetery through the tree line of the property. And my mom came to get us, to tell us that that dinner was ready. and we were, you know, just playing there oblivious. And she walked up to us and said, okay, you know, time to come for dinner. Dinner's ready. And then she stopped and she was staring at the cemetery.

And she says, is that grave open? And so we turn and look. And in that cemetery, the part where we were, there was actually two old tombs that had been built inside a hill. And they had been covered with slabs, you know, the gravestone slabs that had the names and the dates. One of them was broken. Like it was a gaping hole. The slab had been broken. It wasn't there anymore. And so this tomb was just standing open to the street. That's creepy. So for some reason, instead of just going directly back to the house, she started walking toward it. And so we as kids were like, oh, okay, what's going on here? And just took off after her and then

past her and she's yelling behind us. No, stay behind me. Stay behind me. Well, we didn't listen. Sure. We just, we ran right up to the lip of this tomb and looked right in. And it was, again, I didn't stay long enough to really take a good look because I was scared, but I looked in there and somebody had gone in, pulled out the coffins that were in the wall of the tomb and just shattered them. So these old, again, Victorian era, coffins were smashed on the ground and there were these brown bones. So the first thing I looked at when I looked in that tombhole was somebody's brown skull and then like these probably leg bones or arm bones that were kind of laid around. So that's something that's also seared in my memory because that doesn't happen to a lot of kids. No, it doesn't.

So we turn around, we high-tailed it back to the house. My mom came with us. She called the police. And now they have it sealed up with concrete. Like no one can get in there. But that was a weird thing. So people that are in Boiartown, Pennsylvania, you know that the graveyard she's talking about. Those tombs, they're sealed over for a reason. Yep. And you were the one that saw what happened.

The one with the big concrete slab across it. Yeah, we found that. Wow. That's, yeah. And that's got to be scary for a child to see. I would not let my mom leave my sight for the rest of the night. She had to come with me everywhere. it was just very, very scary.

Yeah, I'm sure. All right, well, I mean, let's move on here. I mean, let's go back into the house because I think you have another story that happened, actually a couple stories that happened in the basement of that house. Now, these stories are, they're pretty scary. Yeah, so I have a couple that happened in the basement. I don't know why I kept going in the basement after all these stories. but my friends and I would occasionally, we were a little bit older than some of the other daycare kids that my mom had in this house also.

So we would go to other rooms to play sometimes. Sometimes my room. For some reason, we started going to the basement a lot to play. So there's a couple different times where we had something weird happen, either two of my friends or one of my friends. So for example, there was one time the basement itself had three large rooms. So we were in what I would probably call the main room where the steps came down into. And there was one time we were down there and we were just talking and playing. And from one of the other rooms, it sounded like there was just this enormous crash.

Like if a shelf fell over and all of the things you had stored on the shelf, fell down and rolled across the floor, that's what it sounded like. And we all heard it. So we jumped up and we ran into this other room and nothing had happened. It was, you know, all of the shelves were. as they should be. And it was just weird. We didn't really have an explanation for that.

And then another time, again, I don't know if it was before or after, I don't remember the timeline. But we were down there. And for some reason, we thought that it would be great to go down there and tell scary stories to each other. Famous last words. Oh, my gosh. Kids.

So we were down there telling scary stories. I was telling a scary story. And we were making them up. They weren't real stories. There was a time in my story where I said, and then there was a loud noise. And the same thing happened again. There was some enormous loud noise, this crash noise, that came from that same room. And it was just so ironic that it was right at that exact time that I said, and then there was a loud noise, and then we heard one.

And we didn't even look in the room that time. We just went straight up the stairs and stayed upstairs the rest of the day. did your before you go any further did your friend think that you planned that at all or was she just straight up scared like you were we were we were all just startled okay um and nobody i mean we didn't really discuss it later uh we just took off that's interesting um so i think there's i think i think i have two more basement stories um so there was another time same basement we were all down there again and maybe maybe these occurred very close together. Again, I really don't remember. I just remember the events.

So there was a time that we were down there and we were all probably, I want to say probably eight to ten feet away from this lamp that was just sitting on a counter that was down in the basement. So it was a ceramic lamp. It didn't have a lamp shade. It was just the, you know, the bare bulb and the lamp. Well, it just fell over. It fell off of the counter and it hit the concrete floor and the lamp didn't shatter, but the light bulb broke all over the floor. So that was, that was strange. We didn't know what had prompted that to suddenly go toppling off the counter. And we told my mom, you know, she cleaned up the light bulb, she cleaned up the glass. And then for some reason, glutton for punishment, I guess, I came down to the basement the next day. And what was so strange

to me was that the lamp was in the exact same place on the floor. It was off of the counter again, light bulb was shattered. It was almost like, it almost felt like a time loop. Like, didn't this just happen? It was the same thing again. The lamp fell, was shattered at some point, I guess, in the night or during the morning, and I found it in the same place as the day before. Did you, did your mom, are you sure your mom cleaned up the first mess? Yeah, I remember her coming down and looking at it. So, I mean, I'm pretty sure that she did, because why would she just leave it there? That's just, you know, right? Right, especially with kids.

I don't think that she would leave light bulb shards all over the ground. So just another weird thing. When you found the second time it broken, I imagine you told your mom, do you remember her reaction to it at all or anything? I don't really. I do remember telling her and thinking, this is so strange, but I don't really remember her reaction. Okay.

Now, before we get into this, I believe it's the last story for the basement, these incidences that are happening to you in the basement of the house or in this house every time it happens, are you getting those chills and that feeling again or is it like a hit and miss with this kind of stuff? I think some of it was hit and miss. Like for example, when we heard the noises, it wasn't something we were expecting. But then, of course, we felt that way afterward because we were scared. Right. I think the lamp was, especially the second time when I came down and saw it

the way it was. It was that eerie feeling. Like something's not quite right in the air almost. Okay. Yeah, I was just wondering because, you know, that's a recurring theme here with you is you get these feelings and then something happens. So I was just wondering, you know, if you were getting that consistently. Walk us into the next story here for the basement.

Yeah. So this one's, again, creepy. this one stands out in my memory too. So in the basement, I had one friend with me this time. Now, this was an old house, and old houses have a lot of oddities for some reason. So this house had a lot of doors, a lot of tiny doors, a lot of doors built into the walls. It was, you know, an awkward setup. So in the basement, there was, in one of the rooms, there was a tiny door, not tiny,

I want to say maybe, maybe it was two and a half feet by two and a half. It was a square door cut into the wall. And for some reason, it opened up underneath the side porch. So I don't know what it was there for. But we would sometimes when we were down there playing, pretend that we were playing in a kitchen and this door, we would pretend it was the microwave. So we would open it up and put food in there. We were playing with it. So we opened it a lot. And there was one day that my friend and I were down there and we opened the door as we're playing. and on the inside of the door in pencil we saw the word up with an arrow pointing up and I never seen that before. I don't know if I just missed it but it was suddenly very clear that this door had a little message on it that said up written in pencil and it wasn't just like one pencil swoop for the you or one it was like written back and forth like multiple scribbles making one letter like it was traced.

Yes, over and over again, like multiple layers. So it wasn't just a, like it was, I don't know how to describe it. It was like it, not like a block letter, but it was very big. Okay. It wasn't just simple pencil lines. It was like someone went, like you said, yeah, over and over and over it. So it said up. And we thought, oh, okay.

And because it set up, we just looked up. And there was a hole in the ceiling. Like I think there was a, you know, it was a type of drop ceiling. And there was a hole in the tile, the one drop ceiling. tile. So we both looked up and the first thing we both saw immediately was this hole. And in the hole, both of us swear, we saw these two tiny little red eyes looking back at us. And it was it was like if you've seen those albino mice that have their red eyes, it was eyes like that, but looking directly at you, not like eyes on the side of the mouse's head. So we both looked up,

and saw tiny little red spots and we both thought they were eyes because it was almost like shiny like an eye shine and we stared just kind of open-mouthed and silent for a few seconds we were looking at this and then we both broke and ran upstairs was this friend the same friend from before previous incidences she was yeah she was one of the ones sometimes there were two friends but she was always one of them. Wow. Wow. So what was your feeling?

Like inside you, when you saw this message that said up and you naturally look up and you see two red eyes looking down at you, what was going through your mind? What was that gut feeling that you had inside? Do you remember? Well, I mean, I think it's hard when you're a kid to articulate exactly what you're feeling other than I feel scared. But, I mean, looking back on it now, it was definitely something. that I didn't understand and couldn't, like, disbelief. Like, am I really, I think I remember thinking in my head, am I really seeing this? Is she seeing this?

And she confirmed, like, she and I talked about it quickly, you know, a little bit later and just like, no, we saw the same thing. So it's really, I don't know, I think as a kid you kind of try to figure out, is this my imagination, but you really know that it's not. Does that make sense? Like, it's just, it's a feeling of disbelief. and then it's a feeling of fear because it's an unknown thing. And especially when you're a kid,

you don't have a lot of words to verbalize what something might be or thoughts to try to put it together in your head. Like, okay, this is the rational explanation for what it is. So it was a lot of, yeah, a lot of disbelief and confusion and then let me get out of here. Wow. Now, I'm assuming because you continue to go down there into the basement, I'm assuming you went to the basement again at some point in your life,

Did you ever look and see if that word up was still there? I don't really remember ever going to look. I think I might have shown my mom again at one point, but again, she didn't really have a reason for it either. She didn't write it, but she couldn't say when it had gotten there. She just dismissed it? I think so. Yeah, I think, I don't know.

I think, you know, a parent and kids. Yeah, to a kid, it's like, okay, honey, you know. Nice story. That's nice. Yeah, yeah. So you did tell her about the eyes, though? No. No, so you never told about the eyes until now.

Nope. She might hear this and be like, huh, that's interesting. I mean, honestly, there's not a lot of things that I shared until, you know, more as an adult because it just, I don't know. I think one as a kid, you're afraid to tell somebody and then have them not believe you. I think I had a lot of that fear. I didn't want to be not believed because it was something that impacted. me enough that I still remember it. So to have somebody say, oh, that didn't happen. That would have really, you know, made me feel. Sure. Yeah. And anybody who knows you knows that you're very

introverted. And so you just naturally don't talk a whole lot anyways unless there's something really to talk about. Right. I don't think I talk this much all day. I know. I mean, this is great. I love it. But, I mean, if you're going to feel like what you have to say isn't going to be received as an introvert, you probably wouldn't even want to go down that path then because it's wasted time. And so, because that's one thing I learned with you, you know, being an introvert and being married for 10 years, you know, I'm learning that you don't like engaging in conversation that you know isn't going to go anywhere. It has to have meaning. And so if you as a kid feel like you're going to tell somebody, they're not going to believe you and they're going to dismiss you, then why even say anything? Right.

So that would make a lot of sense, especially knowing. who you are as a person. So, okay, so that was the Boyer Town House. Now, let's walk through the Birdsborough House. Okay. So I lived in a lot of different houses, probably over half a dozen between, you know, baby and 18. But this is our forever home that we're in now, right? Yes, yeah, we're not leaving this one. So the Birdsboro House, this is where I lived when I was with my dad. So my parents were divorced. So, you know, my mom had a home. My dad had a home.

They each had several different homes. So in the Birdsborough house, there were probably two things. One that might have just been my stupidity. And then another one that is truly, truly seared in my memory as one of the scariest things that I've ever experienced as a kid. Let's go with the smaller incident first. Okay. It's a good one, too. I want to hear it, though.

Okay. So this instance, in the first instance here, in this house I had a little playroom. And it was just a tiny room and I would go in there and play with my dolls and things. So for some reason I went in and I shut the door and I was playing. And I don't know how long I was in there. But I got that feeling that I often get where I just felt first, I guess it was like anxiousness and apprehension. And then it turns to feeling cold and fearful and almost like you just need to leave the room and be near people.

Like you don't want to be alone anymore because it feels like you're alone with something you don't want to be alone with. That's very descriptive. I hope so. I'm trying to, you know, paint the picture. That's what it felt like. So I got this feeling,

and so I immediately put down my toys and turned around to leave the room, and the door wouldn't open. And I'm in there trying to jiggle this doorknob and pull the door open and just get out because at that point when the door wouldn't open, it was like, oh my gosh, a desperate need to get.

out. I need to get out of here. So I'm jiggling the doorknob. It was probably just seconds to minutes. It wasn't a really long extended period of time, but I think my dad ended up hearing me because he came up and opened the door from the other side. And that's how I ended up getting out of the room. Now, I said maybe it was my own stupidity because afterward we were playing with a doorknob and there was a way that you could turn it like really hard and really far that it would stick in itself and it wouldn't open. So I don't know, maybe I had done that when I closed the door, but I don't know. It was just coupled with that feeling that I had, it just kind of makes me think maybe it was more than me just, you know, getting the door stuck. Yeah. And when we were talking about this earlier,

you actually said that when you had that feeling that you had to get out, as you're approaching the door, you had a feeling that the door wasn't going to open. I did. I had a thought, just one of those brief passing thoughts. You're like, why am I even thinking that? as I'm reaching for the doorknob, I was like, what if this didn't open? And then it didn't open. So it almost felt like I did it to myself or I willed it to happen. I don't know. It was just, I do remember that, though, as a scary moment.

That's, you got superpowers. All right. So let's talk about, because I mean, I understand where you're coming from because, I mean, you're a very logical person. When I come home with Bigfoot evidence that I want to examine and look at and possibly, you know, I'm looking through people. pictures or whatever. You know, I remember one time I had a picture that it almost looked like there could have been a face in the picture. And actually, you were in the picture. I was taking

a picture of you. It was pretty, but you were very level-headed with that. And that's the kind of person you are. You try looking at things very logically. And that's why you're not dismissing, but you're not saying it's weird or extra weird or anything like that with this whole door thing because there is a possible explanation. Yes. Now, this next story, I know you, you've run it through your mind a million times and you keep coming out with the same result. Yeah. Talk to me. There, for this, there is no other explanation for me. It was just something other. That's all I guess I can really name it as. So same house, Birdsborough house. I was the middle of the night. Again, always afraid to be alone. I was sleeping in my dad's room because I was, again, I had just been kind of creeped out and scared a little bit earlier. And so I had called and, you know, and asked, you know, can I come in? Can you be here? And so I was in his room and he had been sleeping on the floor and then I took his bed.

And I woke up in the middle of the night and I just felt scared. Like I woke up feeling that way. I woke up with the apprehension, the anxiousness. And then that cold heart. fear is really all I know how to describe it as. It's just overwhelming and you want to bury yourself so that nothing can see you, nothing can find you. It's just this kind of overwhelming fear that something is there that shouldn't be. And so what happened? I know it wasn't my dad. I could actually hear him snoring, you know, nearby. So I know it wasn't him. So as I wake up with this feeling of fear. It was probably, you know, a few minutes that I'm laying there awake. I can't go back to sleep. And then at the very end of the hallway, so his bedroom was at the end of

this long hallway on the second floor. At the other side of the hallway, very faintly, I started to hear footsteps. Like very distinct. Again, it was another old house. So when you walk down the hallway, you would always creak. So every step you took, there was a floor creek. and that's what I heard, starting from the end of the hallway, and it just got louder and louder, these footsteps, these creaking footsteps, coming down the hallway and into the bedroom. And the closer it got, the more scared I was. And then I heard it, I heard these footsteps, didn't open my eyes the entire time, not at all. But I heard these footsteps come into the room, and then they creaked around the bed.

So again, the same creaking wooden floor, a footstep, footstep, footstep, creak, creak, creak, all the way over to the window. And in the room there were these plastic shades that just, you know, pulled up and down with your hand. You just pulled them up and down. So this creaking comes all the way, and then I hear it stop at the edge of the room, and then I hear this plastic shade go up. and then it was just probably a beat or two, and the plastic shade went down. The sound, anyway, that's the sound I heard. And then the creaking footsteps, it was like I could hear them turning around, walking back around the bed, and walking out and back down the hallway,

getting quieter and quieter until they were just gone. And it was just paralyzing. Like that was probably, you know, all the other things that have happened to me, maybe there was some explanation that I just didn't have. But this was literally the most vivid experience of something other, you know, besides, you know, my Hatman story, I guess I could say at that at this time I had experienced. And that still is something even now, like I feel a little chilly telling it because it was just so real. Sure. Yeah.

I get chills just, you know, actually listening to it. it actually walked into the room that you were in with your dad and your dad never heard it. Now, it couldn't, like, there wasn't, your dad didn't have a girlfriend over or something. No, it was just me and him. And like I said, I could hear him snoring as this was happening. I could hear him. And I mean, this is, like you say, I don't, I don't say things if I don't mean it or, you know, I don't expect the conversation to go deeper.

So this was enough that I brought it up to him the next day. And it was, you know, one of those, oh, that was probably just me, you know, getting up, moving around. And I tried to explain, no, I could hear you snoring. And I think, I don't know, I think sometimes for parents, that's just, or for adults, I guess I should say, it's like, no, you know, that stuff doesn't happen. There isn't anything like this in the world. But as a kid, I mean, I don't know. I feel like I was susceptible to those things as a kid, those other things. Yeah, and I hear that a lot. I mean, people say that, you know, kids are more sensitive to these kind of things. Also, I think kids are more open to these kind of things where kids still have the sense of mystery in life. And they still have that, like, they believe in the Lochness monster. They believe in all these different things. And kids just had that, that willingness to kind of be more sensitive to that kind of thing. Whereas I think as people, as people,

get older as they become adults, you know, life beats you up. You know, you got jobs and you got, you know, broken relationships. And it's just that kind of stuff falls away in your consciousness. And you don't even think about it. Whereas kids, you know, we're using our imaginations. You know, that's what, that's what you do as kids. And so I think you're more open just naturally to experiencing these things because you're more, just more sensitive to it. That story is something that either it did happen or it didn't happen, you know, and the fact that you know your dad was there snoring on the floor while this was happening, you know it wasn't him. That's, you know, pretty defining in my mind. So, yeah, that's interesting. So, all right, so I mean, I guess

there isn't anything else that happened in the Birdsborough house. Not that I recall. I mean, nothing that was that vivid and that memorable. Sure. Yeah. Let's move on to Mertstown House. Okay, so we went from Gilbertville, we went from Gilbertville to Boyertown to Birdsborough to Mertstown. Okay, let's keep this baby rolling. So this is just another brief experience, the only one that really stands out in my mind that happened at this particular house. And it was just me, probably I want to say, between 11 and 13 years old. it was nighttime again dark um everyone else was asleep in the house and i was not asleep yet i was trying

to go to sleep and i was in my bed and i just remember again feeling that feeling that that cold fear that anxiousness that feeling of i don't want to be alone right now because i feel like i'm not alone but what i'm not alone with is not something that i want to be alone with and i was just laying there trying to go to sleep, trying to, you know, ignore it, pull my covers over my head, you know, just ignore it. And I just felt something yank my toe really hard. If you pull on your toe and it kind of disjoints a little bit and then snaps back into place. That was the yank that I felt on my foot at the bottom of the bed. And I was, again, paralyzed enough to not even, I didn't jump out of bed. I didn't go get my mom. I didn't yell. I just pulled my legs up to my chest, folded them up, pull my covers over my head, and did not move until I fell asleep. Like it was just like, okay, I'm just going to pray now until I fall asleep and hope that it goes away.

It was just another very strange experience. I don't know why it happened. I don't know what else maybe it could have been, but I definitely had something pull my toe. Did you have a pet in the room at all or anything? I didn't. No, I didn't have a pet. There was a dog, but it was in with my mom. So no, I didn't have a pet with me.

And again, that's something that either happened or it didn't happen. You know what I mean? It's kind of hard to have your imagination to take you to the point where you actually feel fit. I'm sure, hurt a little bit. Right. And it's not like it was a toe twitch or something. It was a definite pull, a yank. Yeah.

And I can almost imagine that feeling. When I used to play basketball, I almost had my finger pulled out of soccer, a couple of times. And if that's what you're trying to describe, like, was it the big toe? Yes. Okay. So, I mean, I can almost imagine that feeling of like your feet are relaxed and all of a sudden one of the joints, one of the, your toes are just quickly pulled and it's like caught off guard and it feels like it's going to snap out of socket there. That's kind of how the feeling you had, right? And it was like it was through the blanket. It wasn't like I felt flash or, you know,

I felt somebody. It was like something grabbed the blanket around my toe and pulled my toe with it if that makes sense. So it took that that's a considerable amount of pressure to grab through a blank and I know how you are you have like 10 blankets. Yes. So to grab through the blanket, your toe pull enough to have that feeling on your toe. Right. It wasn't like it just slid off your toe. That's, hey, I mean, that's chilling. Yeah, that was another unexplainable thing that I recall. Yeah. All right. So if that's, that's the only thing that happened in the Merstown house. Yeah, the only thing that stands out. Now let's go to Kutztown. Kutstown, Pennsylvania. The first. There were two in Kittstown. Yeah. And I know you don't like talking about Kutztown because you hate the town.

No, don't say that. I know. I didn't like high school there. I'm sorry. And whenever we go back into Kutztown, you always have these bad memories and everything. So we try not to visit Kutztown too much. But take me to the first house in Kutztown on Main Street. Again, it's an older house. What happened? So there was, I mean, I think off and on there were a few times in that house where I would just have that feeling of anxiousness and apprehension. Nothing really happened memorable, but I do remember just having those on occasion and having to move into another room to be closer to my mom or whoever was in the house. On one occasion, though, that, again, this is another one that really stands out very clearly. I had brought my cat with me. I had a cat that I kept at my dad's house, and I had brought her with me to my mom's house. So I had her shut in the room with me, so all the doors were shut. And again, nighttime in the dark, I'm trying to go to sleep.

I was in my bed, and the cat was at the foot of the bed. And I had that feeling come over me again, that I'm scared. I wanted to go get my mom, you know, but I didn't want to get out of bed. I didn't want to walk through the room and have something. I don't know. I almost feel like something's going to touch you. You know, it's like there's something palpable that you don't want to encounter. So I'm laying in bed trying to keep my eyes shut, not look at anything.

Just, you know, again, pray myself to sleep. That's what I would do a lot of the times when I had this feeling come over me. So that's what I was trying to do. And then all of a sudden, I feel my cat at the foot of the bed, she sits up and she just starts mulling and meowing in a way I've never heard her cry before. It was just this scared wailing, I want to say, that I think cats can make. And I felt like because I'm, I mean, I felt like I needed to protect her. So because of that, because I heard her do that, I sat up and looked and her name was Ember.

And, you know, Ember, what's wrong? I talked to my cat. So I sat up and I looked at her to see what was the matter, like why she was making this noise. And I see her, and this is what freaked me out. She's perched on the foot of my bed. She's sitting up. And she is frantically staring at the ceiling and looking in every single corner of the room back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And she's making this sound. And it's, I mean, it looks like she is looking at something. And whatever she's looking at is moving from corner. corner to corner because her head just kept flipping back and forth from, you know, I think it was three corners of the room she kept looking into. And she just kept making this sound. And I couldn't, I couldn't comfort her, I guess. Like I tried to reach out to her, pet her, bring her closer to me. And she was not having any of it. She was fixated on whatever she was seeing and she was crying. And then all of a sudden, I don't know, I don't know what changed, but she just went from staring in one corner frantically looking and then she just shot off the bed she ran all the way across the room and she booked it straight into her cat carrier which she hated she did not like being in

there she ran straight into the cat carrier and she refused to come out for me like she was hidden hidden away and i don't know you know what prompted that but i just once she did that i was terrified I was like, I don't want to be seen either then. If she's hiding, I'm hiding. And I went right back to that reflex that I have, pull the blankets over my head. And I really did. I do really remember that night just praying so hard until I finally fell asleep. Yeah.

I mean, that would be scary to me too, I think. I mean, everybody says that, you know, the animals have, you know. A sixth sense. Yeah, exactly. And so, I mean, was she seeing something that you couldn't see or was she sensing? something, I don't know. But that would be definitely freaky. I mean, that's something that she never did before. She's a very docile little cat. She didn't make a lot of noise. So that, that behavior was very unsettling to me. Sure. Yeah. Now,

that's the only thing that you can remember happening in the Kutztown House on Main Street, right? Yeah, again, you know, just a couple odd moments here and there where it felt strange or weird, but nothing that was that memorable. Okay. Now, the last story here is in the second Kutztownhouse, and it involves me. And I think we'll both tell this story. I think I'll let you start walking us through the story, and I'll kind of chime in a little bit and take over when it involves me only.

I don't think I even remember this as much as you do probably because it involves. you more but what I do remember is that we were um this was a house that my mom was living in um she had left I think she had gone to some fair that fall that was that was happening that night and we were getting you know my stuff together so that we could drive back down to college um and I just all I really recall because nothing again nothing really happened but it was this feeling for both of us, both you and me, we need to leave here right now. And I don't know why, but I no longer want to be in this house. Yeah. And now what triggered that was we were at your mom's house and we were actually watching some ghost shows. And we had this great idea that we should go down in the basement and look

through old photo albums to see if we could find any pictures of ghosts in the photo albums because that's what they were doing in the show. And that's what we did. So I mean, it was like playing with fire almost and then and then this feeling and that feeling came on now people can say okay well you freaked yourself out you had that feeling and you just got scared and you ran off and sure if the story ended there we could say that but it didn't end there I remember we we got everything together you know like you said we had to go back to college and you were at Penn State at the time and I had to drop you off there and I had to drive back to Valley Forge alone and the distance between Penn State and Valley forage. It's about a 45-minute drive. And so this is Penn State Berks campus,

not Penn State main campus. That's like two and a half hours. But so we're driving to your campus and I still had this scared feeling, this really feeling like there's something going on here. And I can't remember if you had that feeling or not going to the college. But I just remember driving to your college trying to be the tough, strong boyfriend for you. And I remember dropping you off at the school. And I know this is going to sound bad. And I just remembered this. I know this is going to sound really bad. But I was hoping that I could leave that scared feeling there with you. With me. I would take it all. At the college, I was like, whatever's going on. I hope when I drop her off, it's done. You know, but it wasn't.

And that's kind of where my story picks up. Now, I always say to people that I've never experienced anything weird. Like, I hunt for Bigfoot, but I never saw Bigfoot, you know, where there's so many people out there to have seen Bigfoot, but, you know, don't even hunt for them. And I'm out there looking for Bigfoot, and I've never even seen it. And I always say that, you know, even with ghosts and all that stuff, UFOs, which, by the way, my mom jogged my memory last time we were at that house that my mom and I had seen something kind of funny and funky in Kutztown when I was growing up. We'll get into that another time. That's another show. But I left you at the college and I'm driving down 422.

I remember passing the sheets in Birdsboro and thinking to myself, should I pull over and rest a little bit? Try to shake this feeling. I was just, I was really, really scared. And I just couldn't figure out what it was. I just had this feeling there's something in the car with me. And, you know, you can't see anything, but you almost like I'm sitting in the driver's seat and I'm scared to look in my rearview mirror because... It's oppressive. Yes, very.

Like, you feel like it's right there over your shoulder. And so, like, I'm actually, I remember I actually reached my arm in the back seat and I was like swished around a little bit to make sure there's nobody back there, you know, like no axe murderer or something. and I get all the way down to Valley Forge. I parked the car. It's late at night. I remember it's dark out. I walk inside my dorm and I lived in a newer dorm and my roommate was already in bed sleeping. And I didn't want to go in my room because I still had that feeling and I didn't want to try going in the rooms.

I had to lead the lights off for him and I didn't want to be in there alone. I ran into a guy that lived down the hall for me. And for whatever reason, I just, because I'm a talk. I just opened up to him right away. I said, dude, I need to talk to you. I'm, I'm freaking out, man. And so we actually went into the only place we could go because everybody else was sleeping. We went into laundry room. And we're in the laundry room and I'm just telling them how I felt what we were doing that night. And it actually turns out that this guy I'm talking to has had previous experience with Wicca. Is that the right word? Yeah, Wicca. And so like he's kind of like, I don't know if it was

I don't know, but this guy had a previous experience with Wicca, he's telling me. I'm like, oh, great. This is, you know, I'm not sure if this is the perfect guy to talk to or the worst guy to talk to. But I'm standing there in the laundry room and I'm talking to him about this stuff and telling him, trying to describe this oppressive feeling I have right there in the moment. And I remember looking up and to my right and there's windows. And I looked out the window and this is where my memory is foggy. I can't remember the color that I saw, but I saw.

two eyes looking at me and I can't remember if it was yellow, orange, or red. It was a colorful light though. That I remember, but there was two of them. And now that I'm telling you the story, these, these memories are coming back to me. I remember it blinking because I remember telling him that they, they went out and they went back on simultaneously because I was trying to kind of think is a lightning bug. And that's what I was telling you about earlier. I remember talking about a lightning bug. And that's why I was talking about lightning bug because I thought maybe it was a lightning bug. But it didn't make sense because they were right next to each other and they went out and went back on. And stayed in one place. Exactly. And it scared me so bad. I hid my face in the

washer machine. And this guy is putting his arm on my back and saying, it's okay. It's okay. Okay. Okay. Like he's like, what's going on? Like he didn't see anything. And I can't even express to him what I just saw. Like I was so scared. And so it took me a while to actually open up and stand back up and tell him what I saw. We left the laundry room. And I slept on his floor in his dorm room that night because I didn't want to go in the room by myself. And hindsight, I remember looking back now, Lynn, remember how I used to be so scared to look out windows? Yes. That's what triggered it. Now I remember that's what triggered it because I didn't realize you had forgotten that. I remember that very clearly. You wouldn't. Yeah.

When you realized there was a skylight in one of the rooms at my mom's house, you did not even ever want to go in that room. You're like, I don't want to see a window that can't be covered with a blind. And to this day, what do I do? As soon as it starts getting dark out, like today, what happened when I said to you, it started to get dark out? I went into the living room. I closed the blinds. Yep. when it's dark outside, I don't like having my blinds open.

I feel like, you know, the whole world can see me. The lights are on in here. And, you know, I just don't want people to see me. But, like, it's just that weird feeling, you know. But the story doesn't end there because, and I wish I could tell you it was the next day. It wasn't that night. But I want to say it was really close in time. It was probably the next day.

I'm in my room. It's nighttime. And again, my roommate's sleeping. and my bed was alongside the wall with the window. There was only one window in our dorm room, and this window went from the floor to the ceiling. It was a newer dorm hall, and it was a thin window.

And so the window's at the foot of my bed, and it's along the wall that my bed is. So it's not like the window, when I look at my feet, I can look out the window. I had this really scary feeling again, come over me in the room and I'm just like I'm sitting there like what is going on I probably was praying and I was like God just please protect me you know and it's like a warning I feel like it's like a warning feeling of danger danger or yeah something like that absolutely it might be some kind of like

inner warning I don't know um but I just remember I can't remember all the details but I what I do remember is being scared looking down at the bottom of my bed and seeing the blinds that were closing the window was closed the blinds were shut and I remember seeing the blinds being pulled out from the wall like a foot off the wall and then almost like something let it go and they just slapped against the window and that was at the foot of my bed now I just for a life of me can't understand why until recently I remembered this. Like, that happened probably, what, 12, 13 years ago. Yeah, it was a while. And I was adult. It's not like I was a little kid, but for some reason, I blocked it out of my mind. And until recently, I'm reopening that box

and I'm remembering this. I remember telling my roommate what had happened. And, you know, I think he believed me, but, you know, he was just kind of like weirded out by it. He's like, whatever, dude, you know. But that was really scary. And I just remember kind of like the similar reaction to what you had, where you just kind of hide underneath the covers. I don't think I hit underneath the covers, but I think I closed my eyes. And I just kind of like wrapped myself up in my arms and I was just like prayed, you know, because that's the only thing I knew to do. But that all started because we were at your house in Kutztown and we wanted to go ghost hunting through pictures. It was almost like a chain reaction. Yeah. I mean, I don't know.

I don't know if you can really induce something like that to happen, but that's kind of, in this case, that's sort of what it seemed like. Yeah. Yeah. It's, and I hate to say this. And what I'm about to say, it doesn't mean I necessarily believe what I'm about to say, okay? But I'm going to say it anyways. It's almost like if something your entire childhood was kind of like almost following you.

Because we talked about it earlier, that's almost kind of how it was. It felt like when you run through these stories, almost like something was with you. It was almost like that thing, then I don't know if didn't like me. Reemerged. But it kind of was like, okay, dude, you want some of this too? Okay, that's cool. Yeah, you can drop her off at your school. I'm sticking with you tonight.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And that's, that, that's, that was kind of the feeling that I get when I look back through this. Now, do I believe that? Ah, I don't know. You know, when it comes to ghosts and all that stuff, I, you know, you and I, we, we come from a very deep theological background. You know, a lot of people know that I went to a Christian college. I studied to be in the ministry.

And eventually you transferred there. And so I have these, these, these, this background with theology. that I compartmentalized some of these things. And I don't think necessarily this was, you know, some uncle that just really was fascinated by his niece that he never got to meet. I think it was, it could have been something evil, demonic. And that kind of stuff you don't play with, you know. Now, it's not going to, I don't, I don't believe that it could harm me. I believe I'm protected.

But you don't play with games with that either. And I think that night what we were doing possibly opened that door that we were starting to play some games. How do you feel about that? I feel the same way, actually. I mean, I don't want to say, or like I've said already, yeah, it's not, maybe these things weren't all of my life. Maybe they had an explanation, but, you know, I just always remember feeling, and I've already said this a couple of times too. I didn't, especially at night, ever,

ever want to be by myself, but I could never really articulate why. And now looking back, it's like, well, maybe this is why. Maybe there was always some kind of, you know, spiritual, plain oppressive force that was weighing on me and sometimes manifested in these strange unexplainable things that happened and then as I got older you know they seemed to stop until you know this occurrence enter Tony enter Tony until it was almost like at least in this case just a reemergence and and maybe it was you know an old door. reopened or, you know, maybe it was new. I don't know. But, but I think that it could be just based on other things, you know, in the past. So yeah, I would agree with that. I don't know that I can explain it

in a deeply theological way, but, but I think it's a possibility. Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, you know, what to make of all of all those details that, you know, went into that, those couple nights with me and you. But I do know it was very real. And for whatever reason, I blocked it out. And I, people say that. Like, oh, I blocked it out. And, you know, you're like, oh, really?

Or are you just choosing not to talk about it? I really blocked it out. Yeah. Like, like, even up until recent, like, I just realized what started my fear of windows. Like, that night is what started all that. and it's just funny how all that works now let me ask you have you ever told your parents any of this stuff like i mean you said that some of the stuff you told your mom but have you ever told your parents the hatman have you ever said anything about that man i didn't mention until i mentioned

until i mentioned it to you in the car a month ago i mean it's something that i just i always remembered but i never thought it really significant enough to tell anyone and ask for some kind of explanation because I was convincing myself that I had just made it up. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's understandable. That's understandable. And I probably, honestly, would have continued to think that through my whole adult life if I had never heard that there are other people all over the world, I think, that have had an experience seeing a shadowy person with a hat. Yeah. I'm interested to see if the topic gets brought up now. that this show is going to air, you know, I'm interested,

what I'm interested to see, did your parents ever experience anything, you know? Like, I want to know, you know, in those houses, did your, did your siblings, did your sister or brother ever experience anything, you know? And I don't even know if they would talk about it if they did, but it definitely is something that's interesting, and I wouldn't mind, I know you probably won't,

but I'll, you know, me, next time we're at a family, gather like hey uh tell me your ghost story like what i'm like yeah i know you got a ghost story talk to me you know but um yeah i linds i really appreciate you coming on the show and i i really think the audience is going to really appreciate uh everything you had to say because lindsay i'm telling you you're not the only person in the world that has experienced these kind of things and the whole idea of this show is to prevent it to present a platform for other people to feel comfortable to share their experiences and know that their experiences aren't going to be scrutinized. You know, I just want people to feel comfortable to come in, share their story, get it

off their chest, and either move on or dive more into it and figure out what actually happened. But I hope that you, you know, enjoyed your time here. I mean, we're going to go to bed now. But, you know, I hope that with this show, I hope that maybe it kind of gave you that feeling as well. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm not offering either way an explanation, you know, for anything that happened. I'm just kind of sharing what I experienced and not saying either way, hey, this is what it is or this is what it isn't.

But these are things that I've remembered and these are things that have carried with me because they were markedly memorable for these frightening reasons. But, you know, one way or another, whatever they are, whatever they were, I think there are things that are worth talking about. absolutely absolutely well babe thanks for coming on all right thanks for having me you got it well that's it everyone i really hope you enjoyed the show this week you know naturally i enjoy talking to lindsay but i hope you guys enjoyed hearing from her as well before we get out of here i just want to remind you that we are on itunes we're on stitcher google play blog talk radio and now as of recently we're also on tune in so that's five different places you can check us out on. I really hope you guys have a great week. Take care.

This thing that people see, this shadow person, you know, in a hat, I've actually seen that. And when I looked in the corner of my eye in the doorway was what looked like a solid shadow in the shape of a man wearing a hat with a high collar and sort of a, I want to say like a duster type coat, a duster-length coat. It really is kind of burned into my memory. On the inside of the door, in pencil, we saw the word up with an arrow pointing up. And there was a hole in the ceiling. I think there was a type of drop ceiling, and there was a hole in the tile, the one drop ceiling tile.

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