The Confessionals - 343: Surviving A Category 5 Hurricane In A Leaf Hut

Episode Date: June 1, 2021

In Episode 343: Surviving a Category 5 Hurricane in a Leaf Hut, we talk with filmmaker Michael Lees, who set out on a journey to find himself and his place in this world back on his home island of Dominica. Michael had a plan to spend six months out in the rainforest, living off the land with no modern tools to aid him. He made it about three months into his adventure when a Category 5 hurricane smashed into the island, leaving Michael clinging for his life. Once he made it through this life-threatening event, he had a story to tell with the video documentation of a nightmare turned into reality.BECOME A MEMBER AND GET ADDITIONAL SHOWS: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinSPONSORSGET Hello Fresh: https://hellofresh.com/12tony Promo Code: "12tony" for 12 FREE MEALS!!!GET StoryWorth: https://storyworth.com/confessionalsGET SIMPLISAFE TODAY: https://simplisafe.com/confessionalsGet Emergency Food Supplies: http://www.preparewiththeconfessionals.comGet Beard Oil: https://bit.ly/2FbOhN5CONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] Community: Text "YUP" to 844-215-0819Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/the-newsletter SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIDiscord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7h Show Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: merkificationFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcast Twitter: @TConfessionals Tony's Twitter: @tony_merkelSHOW INTRO Show Intro INSTRUMENTAL: www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyub39AXxUw Show Intro FREE DOWNLOAD: https://bit.ly/2HxNcw3

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bone fingers reach up underneath the door curl up to grab it and then disappear. When he came over to me dude he slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing at this giant. Well, the giant moves. He's got a spear in one hand and he's running really fast.

And spears Dan holds him up like this. Somebody else. Shoot him in the face. Shoot him in the face. They basically decapitated. I feel something pulling at my leg. And I look over and there are two small gray into teeth. and they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed. I reached my hand into this bush, and I touch air. Couldn't breathe and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. Yep. Welcome to the show, everybody.

You're listening to The Confessionals. I am your host, Tony Merkel. Thank you for being here. If you've had an encounter or a story you'd like to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is The Confessionals at the Confessionals at the Confessionalspodcast.com. That's The Confessionals at the Confessionalspodcast.com. or go to the website, the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the contact section.

You can reach me that way as well. Either it works for me, just get a hold of me. And if you want more shows every week on Thursdays, we release a bonus show to members only on the website. So go ahead to the confessionalspodcast.com and hit the join button if you're interested in more of the confessionals on a weekly basis. Now, before we get into this week's show, I just want to wish my wife a happy anniversary tomorrow on Wednesday's June 2nd. and we will be married for 14 years going on 15, 16, 17, forever. The rest of my life, it's great. Love it.

Happy anniversary to my wife, Lindsay, for putting up for me for so long. I am a handful, and I am crazy. And she has been dealing with me since we were 18 years old. Half of our lives have been spent together, and it's been awesome. So happy anniversary to my wife. Now, I also want that you guys know we have some new. beard oils. I keep forgetting to mention they've been on sale for about a month or two now, and I just keep forgetting to talk about it. So here you go, guys. Listen up. If you're interested

in the beard oils and you like collecting the Confessionals brand beard oils, we have three new scents for you. We have Windigo, Cush Taka, and the Rake. And so if you guys want to check out the beard oil scents and purchase yourself some, go to the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the store page and click on the beard products section. And it will redirect you to anointed AK.com, which is the company that makes all the awesome beard oils. And he just does a great job over there. Scott Walker, he's just freaking awesome. Absolutely love him. He's great of what he does. And he makes awesome, awesome sense. So shout out to Anointed AK. And if you want to get yourself some of the new beard oils, whether it's Windigo, Kishaka, or the Rake, go ahead and

check it out today. Now, today we have Michael Lee on the show. And he is a filmmaker. And he is from the island of Dominica, and he had this great idea to spend six months in the jungle by himself living off the land. The bad thing is a hurricane came through and really messed up his plans, and he literally almost died, and he filmed it all. And we have him on the show today to talk about his life and what he did out in the jungle and what it was like living out there, surviving the hurricane, and some of the more profound things he discovered about life and the meaning of life. I thought it was a great conversation. I really hope you guys enjoyed this. Switch up to change of pace when we talk to Michael today. So let's get to it right now. All right, today we got Michael

Lee's on the show. Michael, how are you, sir? I'm doing good. Now, Michael, you're in Dominica, the island of Dominica. Now, I think a lot of people might hear Dominica and if they're not familiar, they think Dominican Republic. It's not the same thing, right? Not at all. It's a tiny little island also in the Caribbean, but English speaking and covered in forest and mountains. Yes. So Michael, you survived a very dramatic experience where you had this awesome, nothing could go wrong idea of going out into the rainforest and survive for six months on your own. And it just so happens during that period of time, you get hit with a hurricane. And so we're going to talk about all these different things today. But before we get into it, you actually

documented this journey and you put it into a documentary. So if you could let people know where they can get it and all that good stuff. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So the film is called Uncivilized. It's available at Uncivilized Film.com, which will take you to a Vimeo streaming site. And I'm also, as a thank you for being on the show, given out some promos. So there's going to be 20 promos for free if you use the code confessionals and 100 at half price using the code Merkel. Awesome, man. I'm sure people are going to love that. And I imagine at the moment that people hear this, they're going to stop listening to this. So, you know, go ahead, go do your thing, you know, get your free documentary and then come back here and finish listening to this, then go watch the documentary and enjoy yourself. Because between this and the documentary, you're going to have, you know, two hours or more of awesome stuff to listen to and watch. Now, Michael, I appreciate you doing that, by the way, with the promo codes and everything. I think it's really cool. Actually, I think that might be a first. I don't think I've ever had a guest on the show that hooked people up like that. So that's kind of cool, man. So your documentary is called Uncivilized. And from what I understand, you spent eight years in the States. Now, you didn't, you weren't born and raised here, right? You came here for, what, school or what? The school, yeah. So actually, I was born in England. My dad is English. My mom is a, her family was.

immigrants from Barbados. And when I was about five, they were looking for a change of pace and actually stumbled upon Dominica in the in-flight magazine. So we kind of ended up back in the Caribbean by chance. And then, yeah, I went to school in the States. I was there for end of high school, university, a year working, and then came home. Okay. So that's interesting. It seems like you come from parents who have a sense of adventure because people who have kids typically don't look at, okay, we're in England, where can we go in the world to raise our family and then just go because they found it at a random spot, you know? So it sounds like you were raised in a very adventurous household. Is that right? Yeah, I would say so. My dad especially, I mean, my dad left

Northeast England, which is sort of very parochial at around 22 to South Africa and then spent 16 years living in Africa and traveled all over the world. So there's definitely, I think, some inherited adventurousness there. Yeah, absolutely. What did he go to South Africa for just to check it out? Or did he go there for a reason? To work, he was a draftsman. And at that time, I think he had he had a roommate that had been showing him a brochure about South Africa. and then next thing he knows, he sees a job opportunity in the newspaper and it's like, you know what, I'm going to do it. Some say it would be crazy.

Others would say it's amazing, you know? That's cool, man. So you're here in the States and you were doing your thing with school and work and stuff, and you decide to go home. But I wanted to ask you, before we get into this whole reason why you went home, was it the reason why you went back to Dominica to do this whole journey? Or was it just an added bonus? I guess a little bit of both. I mean, my visa and everything would have been up in the States,

but my kind of plan was to come, I wanted to do this documentary from the time I was in the state. So my plan was to come back to Dominica, do this project, and then maybe move on to England where I'm a citizen. But just with everything that happened, I just fell even more in love with Dominica, and I don't think I'll be going anywhere else. Yeah, I understand. When you find a place that you, you know, it's like home is where the heart is, right? So it seems like your heart's there. And it's a beautiful place to be. I mean, honestly, I was watching, well, before the hurricane, it was absolutely amazing. Now, you head back there and you're preparing to do this adventure. So if you could just kind of walk us into, where did you, where'd this idea come from? What were the motivations behind it? And how'd the

process start for you going out there? Yeah. So I think on the personal level, I was realizing, like, there were things that I was feeling sort of like disconnected with the world. And there were also, I guess, like internal or spiritual goals or, you know, there's things I wanted to find out for myself. And then on the other hand, you know, obviously we're dealing with a climate crisis. We're not only dealing with that, but we're dealing with some pretty startling inequality as well. And I kind of had this question that I wondered if we sort of went back to, how man originally lived.

If we could have been satisfied with that, could all of this sort of be avoided? And so I guess the question that I am asking throughout the thing is modernity versus primitive living for the majority, because obviously the modern world is great for a lot of people, but also for a lot of people, not only are you disconnected from the land,

and your family and your work, but you're also working for next to nothing so other people can live well. So all of these were sort of, I guess, the different aspects that made me say, you know, I really, really want to do this project. Yeah, I understand. Recently, I have been going back out into nature myself and doing like these overnight expeditions and things like that. And it's one of those things where there's this like piece that comes over me when I'm back out in the woods and stuff. It's something I used to do years ago. And it's, it's, I don't know how to define it. I come short of calling it a spiritual experience, but it definitely for me makes me feel like I'm more in touch with, I don't know, like my origins.

Does that make sense? Yeah. I mean, I think grounding might be another way to say it because at the end of the day, I mean, the whole, Earth is almost like a unified organism. So we are not disconnected from nature, but the way we live is very disconnected from nature. So when you get to do an expedition like that, all of a sudden it's like you're plugged back into the living world. And it's like you realize that you actually belong in this place that is a place for humans in the living world, in the natural world. So you're down there in Dominica and you're heading out to the forest, your prep to do this whole thing.

And tell the audience what you were taking with you because it wasn't much. No. So originally I actually wanted to try and do it like straight Stone Age style. But the person and the funds I would have needed to get that training didn't come through. So what I did end up bringing was I brought a knife, I brought a lighter, I brought a machete, I had my camera equipment, which was pretty basic. So I had a Canon 60D, a GoPro, a little Chromebook to transfer footage, and a solar panel and power bank to be able to charge those things. A few clothes, dry bags.

And yeah, I think that was for the most part it. Now, did you ever have any kind of training to survive for six months in the rainforest? or was it more of just like self-education of learning through books and stuff and then off you go? Self-education. So this I meant honestly there's a book. There's so there's so many like bushcraft books out there and a lot of them are really sort of like artsy-fartsy and not practical. One of the best ones I got just almost looked like a like a high school textbook and this book had so much information in it. I actually brought that book with me. And I also should have mentioned I brought a couple text with me as well. I brought the Bagu Gita, the Bible, and Buddhist scripture. And I read the

Bible for the very first time out in the forest. But aside from reading YouTube videos and then meeting people in Dominica who had some of the knowledge. So there's a guy I meet in the film who's basically lived, he's got a house and a farm, but it's like a 40-minute hike into the forest and like up a mountain. So I went to talk to him. I talked to botanists and was able to take a trip with the botanist to the forest to be able to start identifying some different plants. And then also, Dominica actually is one of the few countries in the Caribbean that still has a sizable indigenous population. So I have some friends out in the Kalanago territory who taught me how to make a couple different things. And one of them built a fish

pot for me, basically just built out of like natural materials. So what would be a pot use for then? I mean, is that just like a bowl that you can cook in? No. So it's like, it's like a, it's almost like a basket. And it's one of these things where you put it in the water and the things they can go in, but they can't come out. So I actually didn't catch many fish with it. I caught a lot more crabs with it, crabs that would crawl into it and then couldn't get out. I did bring fishing line and hooks as well. And I was able to fish. Okay, so I didn't know what that was. So I'm glad you explained to me. I remember seeing that in the film. The guy that you went to go visit before you went out on this journey, he's been out there. How long was he out there living on his own off the land and stuff? Because it seemed like he, if you're going out there for your sixth month trip and you meet this guy who's been doing this for the seemed like decades, it seems like he was extremely at peace in the world surrounding him. It didn't seem like he had a whole lot of cares.

Absolutely. I mean, that's one, so he's been out there for 40 years. He actually, he has a wife who is there as well, and he has, he has some children. I think some stay there, some have come back basically down into the world. But I mean, two things he said. One, he said, like, it's been 40 years, but it just feels like one long day. And then also he was saying just the beauty that, you know, I can come up there and he can stop his work and just come and chat with me because he has no boss over his. shoulder telling him to get back to work or whatever else. It's not to say that it's not hard work that he has to do, but being able to do it on his own terms in such a beautiful environment, I think is amazing. Did he give you any insight or warnings as to a do or don't do when you go out there on your own? Honestly, I was hoping for a bit more from him in terms of practical advice. He did tell me about a couple of plants that I could eat. But the main thing was sort of his philosophical musings on whether sort of like our modern system is something that can be saved or is even something worth trying to save. Yeah, and I found some of his insights and

stuff very interesting. And I think that was a very, a very important part of the film leading out to leading up to you going out and stuff because it really kind of gave people the opportunity to see somebody who's doing it a lot longer than you plan on doing it. And the, uh, the Zen he had and his thoughts behind it. Now, you head out there and when you go out there into the forest, did you have a specific area that you knew you wanted to get to to settle into? Or were you just kind of like walking out there aimlessly? I'm like, oh, I think this is a good spot. So I checked out the area previously before. I didn't know specifically what part I was going to set up, but I did have some idea. I did do some planning and stuff. But when I went out, like I knew the

general area. But when I went out, I was, no, I did not know exactly where I was going to go. I explored all the way up this like mountain and then realized, you know, this is not going to be practical being so far away from the river. And I eventually settled on a spot that was high up enough from the river so that if flooding and whatever happened, I wouldn't get washed away, but also that it was within a reasonable, you know, walking distance so I could get water. And the beautiful thing is I had some friends that was supposed to do this project with me. And a lot of them were really worried about the question of where they would get clean water. But where that land is basically comes straight out of the Montau-Pitza National Park. So I didn't have to spend time boiling water or like getting it from

the ground. I would just collect it straight from the river. And that was it, which is, I think, is amazing. Wow. That really is amazing because, I mean, that's something that I was thinking about too. like how are you going to do the clean water thing? I didn't know if there was a need to clean your water where you were at or what. But so you get out there, you kind of come across the area that you want to settle into and stuff. What were you feeling in those moments, the early stages of embarking on this journey where you're out there and it's like, okay, I found this area I want to be at. Now what do I do? You know, like what were your, what were some of the thoughts going through your head there? Partly, what the fuck am I doing? Definitely as I'm setting up

realizing that it's a little bit late in the day. So I'm not going to be able to set up a full shelter in time. So as you saw in the film, I slept with half of my little lean-to roof completely open. But I don't know. I think I was just so excited to be out there and finally doing this project that I'd had in my head, not just as a film, but as an experience.

Like that's something I've always sort of dreamed of doing. So yeah, I guess, a mix between fear and excitement. And then just as the days start rolling by, just realizing, okay, these things I need to do ASAP, as in like build a small shelter, for instance. And then even a couple weeks later, then I decide, you know what,

I can extend this. I can make a larger bamboo frame and a larger roof. So I don't have to be so cramped if it rains, you know? And then to me, that's one of the interesting things is, You're alone in the forest doing this thing. And you realize that technically I could have been happy with just my lean to. But you want to still, you know you're going to be here for a while. So you want to start making things easier for yourself.

And I realize even from that process, it's not a huge leap to get from there to where we are as a modern society. Because as aware humans, we're always trying to sort of figure out a way, to alleviate the work down the line and to make things easier to create technology. I mean, fire is essentially one of man's earliest technologies. And that leads straight, no, not straight, but years down the line leads to the combustion engine. You know what I mean? So I thought a lot about sort of our fate as mankind, whether it could ever be avoided or if these things are almost predestined.

What were some of the conclusions you came to along those lines of thinking? I mean, do you think that no matter how much you might want to as humanity embrace your origins as how, you know, the pure nature of living, do you think that eventually it's ultimately always going to get to where we're at now? That's a great question. I think in some ways, yes, because I don't think that necessarily every tribe or group of people or country would necessarily move in that direction. but all it takes is for one group to decide,

all right, we're going to do this. And then because of how easy things become doing this or at least seemingly easy, it's a very, it's just so tempting. It's so tantalizing to go sort of the easy technological modern route because I don't want to, you know, make it seem like life in the past was all just sort of like fralicking through the forest and just like picking fruit off of trees.

You know, there was still a lot of work, a lot of manual work that had to be done. And even in Dominica, Dominica is one of the countries that sort of developed later on. So there's people whose grandparents can tell you about what it was like raising eight kids and the dad having to be out on the farm all the day with the kids. and the mom spending literally from morning to evening washing and cooking

because you don't have a washing machine, you don't have an oven, you have to light your fire by cold pot, you know what I mean? So, yeah, it's a, again,

I think like I said, that's what the whole tension of this film is about, is sort of looking at that balance between the two. And realizing, I think eventually that it's a trade-off. There's always a trade-off. And the question is for each of us, how much are we willing to compromise in which direction?

Yeah, and I agree. And I think as time goes on, the future generations, seeing the advancements and stuff, they're bound to want to dabble in it and want to get involved in it. And for me, that's the way I view it. I think that it's almost inevitable to, I think it's probably human nature to want to progress and move forward. And when you see the technology coming out and stuff, Maybe an older generation would want to, you know, keep things the way they are and stuff.

But as the new generations come in, it always progresses along. And I think you see that in real world applications today. Now, you're out there and you're getting settled in and everything. One thing I wanted to ask you was what were some of the absolute hard things to get over when it came to comfortability? I mean, for instance, when I was watching you out there and stuff, the first night I was thinking, he doesn't have a freaking pillow. I don't know if I could sleep without a pillow. I mean, were there any situations like that where you're like maybe sleep deprivation, you just couldn't sleep the first night or two. Yeah, it's funny you say that. So this is,

these are again, the things where at first you're like, oh yeah, this is fine. I don't need these things. And then you're like, okay, this is a little uncomfortable. So I went about padding my where I was sleeping. I first put down sand so it wasn't hard, like soil. And then I decided to like try and basically bet it with coconut husk and make like a little coconut husk pillow as well. Did it, I mean, I guess it's better than nothing. It's better than a rock. Yeah.

Although I will say one thing it's been, it's allowed me to do now is I can sleep just about anywhere. I was even, I was talking about hanging out with some friends recently up in the States. And they were telling me, you know, the house is going to be full. I don't know where you're going to be able to see. I'm like, I can sleep on a yoga mat now, which I think I personally take as a new superpower to be able to just do it wherever. Yeah, adaptability is huge.

Exactly. We don't know where you're going to sleep. Do you have a floor? Yeah, that works. Yeah, exactly. It's not a problem, not a problem at all. So you're out there and you're learning the tricks of the trade, hands-on, as you go, figuring things out. What were some things that you tried at first and it didn't work out? Was it like a

shelter where you're trying to build this? Like I saw then after the first day, the lean to was half done. Did you kind of scrap that project? Do you actually finish that? I mean, what were some things that maybe took a little longer than you planned when it came to survival and getting set up? Yeah. So I did finish the lean two. And even when I built the bamboo covering over it, the larger bamboo structure, I still had my little lean-to as my like cozy place. Actually, building the bamboo thing took a lot longer than I thought. And I don't know if you've ever built much with bamboo, but it is extremely sharp. And the where the bamboo was was further up river.

And actually that in itself was a challenge, like cutting bamboo when there's like, you know, 10 other big pieces of it right around. it's actually really challenging just trying to chop it, get it down. And then once you've got it down, I would bring it downriver, drag it through the forest, and then use my machete to like split it.

So by the time I was done with that, I had a lot of cuts on my hand. And then also fire. I didn't think that fire would be such a challenge. And maybe if I'd known more, there would have been some easier ways. but I did not have like a fire going like every day and especially because the rainforest is so damp

and the wood is so damp you'd really have to like work hard to try and find dry stuff and I would actually try and build like a contraption with a convertible lid so that when it was sunny I could let the wood sun out and if it rained I could cover it back up but yeah I think those are some of the main ones that come to mind. Yeah. And that's, you know, when I was watching you build some of that stuff and then the

fire, that's another thing. I mean, I go out with like a flint and steel kind of thing. And so I pretty much, I always have a source of sparking of fire. And I started thinking about how you were doing it, because I know you were collecting some kind of tree sap that was used as. Yeah, it's super flammable. Is that I've never, I've never seen that before. And I was like, oh, that's really interesting. Now, What were you using, though, to spark the flame? I mean, I'm assuming you weren't just doing, you know, like a rubbing sticks together. No, as I mentioned earlier, I did bring a lighter. That's right.

Originally hoping to be able to figure out how to do like the, you know, when they use your hand with a stick on bamboo. I was trying to learn how to do that, but I couldn't get it in time before I went. So I was like, you know what? I'm not going to go in there with no way of making fire because this, project is going to finish very early. Yeah, and all this stuff is leading up to this hurricane that comes through. But what was the, maybe the psychological impact, even before the hurricane comes and you're learning the stuff on the go.

There's days that you don't have fire. I mean, was there, like, were there points where you, maybe you weren't even on camera and you're just like yelling out into the wilderness, what am I doing here? Yes, yes, yes. I remember actually once when it was my birthday. And I was just realizing, you know, once upon a time I was in business school and I could have been on this whole different track. And here I am in the forest speaking to a camera while I have other friends who are graduating or, you know, buying houses or getting jobs. And here I am like talking to this camera, making this film that I have no idea what it's going to be or where it's going to lead to.

I had another night where I was trying to rebuild my shelter and I didn't get it done in time and it poured raining. It absolutely poured. And I had to basically just, I couldn't lie down because it was so wet and muddy. So I basically had to like kneel down on my knees with like my head down to the ground with my like resting on my hand on my forearm. And I remember thinking at first I was like, this is the absolute worst.

And then it's like I had a little epiphany. I was like, no, this isn't actually the worst. Like you're wet and uncomfortable, but that's it. It's not a catastrophe. And you chose to be here. And this night is going to get done. So I think overall what it really did in many ways is fortified my mind in a lot of ways. And I also think learning new skills for the first time,

especially physical skills is a very like empowering feeling. And I think even from this whole experience made me a lot more able to tackle new tasks and being like, I don't know how to do that, but I know I can learn how to do that because I've done it before and I've done it before and I've done it before. You know, one of the the obvious underlying stories to this whole film and messages, I should say, be from you and other people in it is, hey, I'm still alive. And it's like when you think about, you know, all this is the worst, I'm so, you know, whatever your life situation is, when you really get the perspective of I'm still breathing,

I'm still alive. So that in itself is a leg up. It's really humbling. And it seems like this whole experience for you personally, but also the island was very humbling for people to go through, kind of being set back and having to come out of things together. Now, I saw you filmed some snakes out there. What is the, what is the situation with wildlife and your concerns being out there with a machete? I mean, for me, snakes, not a big fan, you know? So, especially walking around there with shorts and sometimes bare feet, crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the good thing is we don't have any venomous snakes. So that big snake, we have boa constrictors, but for the most part, they're not really going to trouble you. The one that I filmed, I actually almost stepped right

on it. And I realized, I think it had just eaten something and it was just coiled up, digesting. So I'm very happy I didn't step on it. But then I ran, it was like, let me run and get my camera and film this thing real quick. I did have a couple times where I would wake up, I woke up once in the morning to a crab going across my foot. That was not a fun experience. I also had another night which isn't in the film where I start just feeling things in my lean-to. And I turn on the light and there is just like a termite hatching going on.

The whole interior of my lean-to is just covered in termites. And I was just like, Jesus Christ. And I just, I had to like sleep outside that night as well. I was like, I'd rather sleep outside than have termites crawling in my ears. Yeah, no, I totally get it. I mean, if there's a spider in my bed, I'm not sleeping in until I find it or the daylight comes. It's funny because we were talking about comfortability earlier and stuff. And I noticed this, I don't know if everybody's like this, imagine a lot of people are.

When you put yourself in uncomfortable situations, the comfortability of things that you're used to kind of go out the window. When I'm out in the woods and stuff, no, I don't like snakes and stuff, but when it comes to, like, the spiders and stuff where, you know, I'm laying in bed, if there's a spider in my bed and I know it's there, I'm not getting back in that bed until, you know, I kill that spider. But, you know, out in the woods, it's almost like, I guess subconsciously you expect it. And it's just like, it's just part of the process. Now, termites, I don't think I'd sleep in the pile of those. I think a nice night underneath the moon would be best at that point. Yeah, agreed.

So you were doing a lot of fishing and you were saying about the crabs. And I remember you catching a fish in the film. And then rain had come and you couldn't really. I was unclear how the timeline went. But was it that the rain came after you caught that fish and you couldn't cook it for a couple days? Yes, I couldn't cook it that night. So what I decided to do was I was like, you know what? Let me just like wrap this up in a couple of leaves.

It should be good overnight. But imagine just overnight, one night, I go to cook it and I can see this like maggots or some kind of worms in there. I was just like, oh, my God. But after working so hard to catch it, like every day that was a fish catching cab cratching day, that was what my whole day was. It was catching protein and then making fire. And then by that time, it's already nightfall. So after having worked so hard to get that fish, I was just like, you know what? I'm going to try and smoke these things out.

I think it should still be good. And by the time I took like the first couple bites, you could just feel it was like the wrong texture. It was completely mushy. And I was like, yeah, this is a mistake. And my body also then told me that this was a mistake. Yeah, I can imagine. So because I wanted to ask you, did you really eat that thing? I can know the worms are coming out of and stuff.

but it sounds like your body told you no anyways. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, your body will, if you're too stubborn to listen with your mind, your body will tell you. And your mind then is conditioned afterwards not to make the same mistake again. All right, let's take a second and talk about our sponsor for today, which is Story Worth. We talked about Story Worth for Mother's Day.

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day with Storyworth. Get Storyworth right away with no shipping required by going to storyworth.com slash confessionals. You'll get $10 off your first purchase. That's storyworth.com slash confessionals for $10 off. Now, what kind of weight loss are we talking about here? I mean, you were out there for a while. And, you know, did you have noticeable weight loss on you where you were like, oh, man, I don't know if I'm even healthy right now. I personally didn't see that much weight loss, but I do know that by the time a couple

weeks out, like after I come back, you're like, oh, yeah, you put on weight. I was like, okay, I must have lost. One thing I definitely remember, and this was probably... because I wasn't eating enough meat was like my toenails just starting to flake. I think obviously not enough calcium. So I definitely, I do remember that and being like, but again, like I said, it was this balance between do I want to, because from what I read, basically you need meat like three times a week. But sometimes I'd be like, you know what?

I think I can get away with two times because making this fire, making this fire, is enough of a challenge. So I think, yeah. But I will also say coconuts are amazing. And the amount of fat and calories from a coconut are quite remarkable. So some of my staples were coconut. And then there was also an abandoned grove of what we call dashing, which is also known as taro.

It's like a root vegetable. there was also like this abandoned little swamp of this stuff. So I was able to get, you know, I think significant calories. Not like, I don't think I was, I mean, if you've seen the film, I don't know if you think I look emaciated by the time I came out or not. But, you know, actually originally I was thinking it would be really interesting to like do a doctor's visit before going out there. and afterwards. But of course, since the hurricane hit, a lot of those afterwards plans did not

come through. Yeah, absolutely. And speaking of the hurricane, let's kind of get into this conversation a little bit because, you know, you say that somebody hiked out to see you, to tell you that there was a big hurricane coming. And at that point, what were some of the thoughts running through your mind? I mean, I imagine the initial thought, the survival mode came. and you're like, okay, abandon the project, right? Wow. So here's the thing. When he came to tell me a hurricane was coming,

it was at that point a category one or two hurricane. Now, I haven't, we, I've never experienced a direct hit hurricane, but we've had hurricanes grazed Dominica before. And when he told me what the wind speed was, I try to like calculate to see what that would be like in a car, but then figuring it's wind. And of course, it is a part of you that's like, okay, is this going to be wise? Should I do this?

But honestly, I felt like based off of the information I got at the time, that I would definitely be able to weather it. And then two, that this project was about what it's like living with nature. So I was like, you know, I can't just take all the good times from nature. And then, you know, scary nature comes through and I'm like, okay, you know, I'm out. So I guess it was in some part a commitment to the project and in some part not thinking it was going to be so crazy. Because what actually happened with that hurricane is it was a category one or two. And then it parked off the coast of Dominica.

It just basically stopped. And then it turbocharged from that to a category five hurricane with the speeds of like over 170 miles per hour. Unbelievable. That makes so much more sense. when I saw the destruction, I was like, holy crap. That seemed like it was hit by like an asteroid or something. My lord. Yeah, that's the same one that went on to devastate Puerto Rico afterwards. Unbelievable, man. Unbelievable. Wow. That's crazy.

Okay, so you decide to stay. And I kind of understand where you're coming from. Even just from my perspective, when I go out and stuff, I'm out there to create content for other people to consume, right? And so when people say to me, well, aren't you scared to go spend the night in an old World War II prisoner of war camp? I'm like, no, well, why something happens? That's the point. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I totally understand. Now, from the moment you decide to stick this out and carry on with the project, what were some preparations that you took then to withstand the storm? Well, as daft as it sounds, I went and I got coconut. coconut palm fronds because the leaves and stuff I had on my lean-to, I realized were already starting

to tremble. And it sounds crazy, but the coconut palm fron, like the center of the stock is actually quite heavy. So I got a ton of those and I put those over my lean-to. And I went and I filled up my water supplies and made sure I had some food. And then it was basically sitting it sitting inside. Oh, Digging trenches. I dug trenches around my thing. And I also made sure that I had some raised areas inside my hut so that if it did get flooded with water, that I'd be able to have my equipment, which was in dry bags, elevated. And then it was sitting down and just waiting for this thing to come. Yeah. Okay. So the trenches. I mean, are we talking like, I don't know, how deep and how wide. I mean, I'm assuming they didn't do anything anyways. You know, I think they might

have helped. I actually stayed. I did some redesigns on that on that little lean to not long before Maria. And I actually stayed relatively dry in that thing, believe it or not. That's amazing. That's that's amazing. So the storm comes in and you're filming yourself during the storm and you're reactions. And you can see the progression of your facial experiences and what you're even saying to the camera. At one point, you almost said, like, you were talking to your family. And you almost said, I love you. But then you're like, I'm not going there. And then, like, five minutes later, you're like, I love you. I love you guys. Yeah. Yeah. That had to be, that had to be such a an emotional, desperate emotional feeling when you're talking to a camera, which, by the way,

did you, did you happen to name the camera like Tom Hanks named the ball Wilson? No, that's so funny. We did joke about that earlier in the film if I would, if literally, if I would be calling my camera, Wilson. But no, it didn't happen. It didn't happen. But yeah, the night, I mean, it was, it was wild. you could hear the wind like ripping through the trees you could hear that the river must have flooded

immensely because you could hear as well hear and feel as like boulders are getting tossed down the river now the interesting thing about being in the forest is you do have the windbreak of the forest so whereas people in the cities were getting pummeled like 24-7

with the wind while I was hearing it and feeling it it would be these sort of like gusts that would finally rip through all the way to me. And then I'd shine my little light outside and I could see the vines like blowing parallel to the ground. And if that happened for more than a couple seconds, that's when you would just start hearing crack, crack, crack of just trees starting to fall. And those were the very intense moments. And it was like, it was a roller coaster because you had these moments where you're just like, at any moment, a tree could fall down on me.

And then that passes. And not saying it's not still mayhem, but it's a relatively calm in comparison. So it's a very, like, really like emotional roller coaster. But then it really did get to the point where I was just like, you know, I, there's nowhere to go. I'm between two rivers. It's night.

I can't be running through the forest trying to get anywhere. I'd like, this is it. and I think one cool thing was having done all this sort of like thinking and reading leading up to it was like I wasn't really afraid to die I was I think I said in the film I said I'm not afraid to die this would just be a really dumb way to do it but then yeah it got it got to the point where it was just like feeling like this and very well maybe the end and having this like life survey of just all the sort of people that had made my life what it was and a sort of like a gratitude and then almost like a surrender. And at that point, you're just like, it's out of my control and whatever it will be,

it will be. Wow. And that's that's the sense that I got watching it. I mean, it just, you get to a point where you literally just say to yourself, I can't control this situation. If it's my time, it's my time. And you almost have to. I, assume come to peace with that feeling. Yeah. You know, you mentioned about the trees. And I know before the storm came through, you had mentioned about, I think, like, your biggest fear would be a tree falling down on you.

And it's something that I didn't really even think a whole lot about because I figured, I guess you think the trees have been there for so long. They've withstood storms before. Chances, maybe a few trees fall over around you, but nothing major. Dude. Like, like. I mean, like, I'm watching the film and you go through that night and you survive. And at one point, I'm like, okay, I know he survived because I'm watching this.

So that's a good thing. Yeah. You know, but you're freaking out and you hear the trees falling down. You hear you yelling. It's like the screen goes blank. And then you see it's daylight and you're in the lean to, which by the way, it seems like the lean to is as small as it might have been. That might have been a life-saving thing because of what happens. I mean, you're leaving this broken structure you spent the night in and it's daylight out. And all you see is your face and your reaction. And you're just like, oh my gosh. I'm like, all right, how bad can it be? It looked like a nuclear bomb went off. Yeah. There's nothing left. Yeah. I mean, it's, there's, there's just nothing that could prepare you for that. Like having been under the forest canopy for three months and then to step out the next day. And then there's, there's just nothing that could prepare you for that. Like having been under the forest canopy for three months. And then to step out the next day. And

is not a single leaf on a single tree. You're right. It just looked like a bomb had gone off. And then I see what had happened. The tree that I had been worried about, the trunk basically missed me or it clipped the corner of the shelter, but one of its big branches, like, as it came down, just squash my shelter all the way down. And if it had fallen at a slightly different angle, I might not be here to tell this story. And even that is one of the amazing. amazing things to me of, like, there were so many reasons that I could not have done this project from funding to friends pulling out to all different manner of things. And then I decided to go ahead and do it anyway.

And then I decided to stay through this hurricane. And by some miracle, I survive. And then I ended up with a film of such a greater magnitude than I could have ever hoped for. And I do think that to some degree, there's something that goes on just like, like, whether it's like fate or synchronicity or whatever. But when you, I feel like when you're doing what you're supposed to do, in some weird way the universe does sort of like conspire with you to help you out. Because that's how I feel about this whole project and a lot of things that have happened

since then, honestly. Because it's almost like a stranger than fiction thing. for me to be in the middle of and to have been there with a camera and be able to not just document this, but then the aftermath. Is there a sense of this, at least this chapter of my life was a chapter that was written before I did it and it was something that I was destined to do? It's a great question. It's a great question. I think I would say yes. I think I usually think about destiny a little bit differently, but in many ways, yes. And that even goes back to the same question about, you know, was mankind destined to be where we are now? Like, even if it means that

mistakes have been made and that maybe we don't survive for the long haul, was there any other way around it? Just like you said, with inheriting things from your parents, like, I clearly inherited the sense of adventurousness. I learned this love of nature. I then fell in love with film. All these different things sort of lining up and then quitting business school, lining up to lead you to this very moment. It's bizarre. Yeah, I agree. I mean, there are times in I think everybody's life where they almost feel like the universe has zeroed in on them. And it was, like, things just seem very, very clear in moments of life where you just feel like this is, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And, I mean, I feel like that about what I do

with podcasting. I think there's a much deeper, uh, reason why I'm doing what I do. And I do feel like this is almost something that I was, I was made to do. Um, yeah. Now, the storm goes through. You, at that moment the decisions made, you guys start making your way back to civilization for your own survival, but also to see how the family is and things like that. I mean, there's real life situations going on that you just can't really ignore at that point. When you're leaving the forest, I know you saw that the river was flooded. You had to spend an extra night there that you weren't planning on, things like that. But was it hard navigating out of there? Because it looked like everything seemed to look so different. Did you ever get kind of lost leaving there?

Because it just, you kind of lost your sense of direction at all. I would say I still had an idea of sense of direction based off of where the rippers were. The hardest thing in terms of navigating was, it was like a jigsaw puzzle isn't the right word. But because so many trees have fallen, you're either having to decide to go under them, over them, or along them. You know what I mean. So it was just like it was a whole different place. And it was, it was bizarre to see even birds on the floor stunned. Like usually in storms, it's like somehow the animals all know how to find some safe place. Like they have this instinct. But in this one, you know, you're seeing stunned birds. You're seeing other animals that have died. And you're just like, wow, this is, this is

carnage. I mean, you saw all those animals that die. You're like, that's food I could have used three weeks ago. Yeah, I know. One good thing I would say, I actually ate better that day than many other days because usually I was eating like mature coconut, which is like the hard dry coconut. But because all these coconut trees had fallen down, it's like all these young coconuts with like the fresh water and the soft jelly were just littered everywhere. So I actually ate my ass off that day.

That's a nice farewell party then for you, right? Exactly. Exactly. All right. Well, listen, you get back to the civilization. I just wanted to kind of touch on this a little bit because I can, I'm a father of two kids. They're young. I mean, three years old and eight months old. And I think about what their life is going to turn into and where the world is going, what opportunities like will be there for them like I had growing up. And what kind of person they're going to turn into and how will I be able to shape and mold this person? And will I do it right? All these things as a parent go through. through my mind. And then I'm watching you walk up this driveway. And your dad's there. He sees you coming. You guys are just laughing. And your mom comes. You give everybody hugs and stuff. You didn't really cover it a whole lot on the documentary. But were there conversations off film between you and your parents where did you get a sense of how terrified your parents, especially maybe your mom was for you, not knowing if you survived the storm or not for days?

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, it's so funny. Some people think that part is scripted because they're like, why is your mom so calm right now? But it was just that she was in complete shock. And actually, the friends that were there that day, that was them going over to my parents' house to basically console them about the fact that I may be dead. Wow. So, yeah, I mean, my mom would always say that my dad was the one that would just stay optimistic and just be like, you know, he'll have found a way to stay safe and all of this. But I think for her it was, I mean, for both of them,

even my dad's not a super emotive guy, but if you see his face flushes red and it's the biggest smile I've ever seen. And then, yeah, my mom definitely had to consider that a lot. And I think that was tough. But I think also one of the great things, and she touches it on it in the film, was having an experience like that,

making you question mortality. And especially for her, she'd been dealing with the ideas of aging and that, you know, you're eventually going to die. And this idea that so many of us don't even think about death. And that's a question and an idea that hit me when I was probably about 15 or 16

and was something that almost almost like an obsession to like figure out, you know, what is it all about? And I really think that if you want to live a full life, you really need to be able to look at death in the face and realize that you have a finite time on this planet. And in many ways, you can make it look like whatever you want. There's sort of default programs that our parents or society give us. But when you sort of realize that, you know, reality is flexible and you can shape it to how you want it to. to be. And at the end of this, you're gone. You might as well make it what you want to be. I think it just opens up so much more possibility and opportunity and actually gives you the

chance to be who you may really supposed to be instead of being who you think you've been told you're supposed to be. I couldn't have said it any better. What you just said is the feeling that I have had for a better part of five years now, uh, before, just shortly before I started podcasting. I, I just, I had this feeling inside where, uh, like I, like you said, I think you said, um, life is flexible and you can shape and mold it to what you want it to be. It's a concept that I never was taught and I never under, I never was taught to, to understand life

that way. And it's a concept that I had to teach myself. And I can honestly, say five years later, I have been on that path and I, and it's true. Like, you can truly make your life what you want it to be. And, and, and death is part of that equation. And, and I think with what's going on in the world over the last two years or whatever since 2020, I think a lot of people, a lot of people globally at one time, we're woken up to the idea that life is a risk and one day you're going to die. And when the, the whole world at one time is reminded of that reality, it kind of pushes people in certain directions. I said this when this first started happening. You wait and see, there's going to be a lot of career changes when this

whole virus thing is over. And it's true because people realize that, listen, one, I am able to do other things than be a bank teller. And on top of it, I don't want to be a bank teller. And so it's funny, you start talking about that whole concept of, you know, recognizing. death and you said you were about 15. I honestly, I got you beat on that one. I was about five years old, sitting in my uncle's house, looking at a picture on his wall, sitting there contemplating, one day I'm going to die. It was the most depressing thing for a five-year-old to think about. It's just, it's so funny when you're young, especially, and you're thinking about death, you're like, oh my God, like, I'm going to be gone. Like, this is, this is terrifying. This is the

worst thing ever. I would say that my current fear is more the idea that like, like, there might be infinite dimensions and that you're going to have to go through this forever and ever. Because when you're a kid, there's only so much hardship you've gone through. By the time you get a little older, you're like, all right, like, you know, life, it's been good, but it's pretty tiring. I don't know if I need to do it again. You know what? I never really thought of it that way, but it's true. I always use the comparison. If something were to happen and I become a widower, is that the male who loses his wife? Anyways, if I wind up losing my wife one day somehow, say it happens tomorrow, God forbid, I'm not on the mark. Like the idea of going through the whole process of dating again, it's just like, no thanks. I'm just going to be single for the rest of my life. I'm okay. Yeah, that's tough because it's almost like, I mean, at that point, it's almost like, you know, you've Two lives have become one. And so now there's just going to be such a whole.

And I think, I mean, even it's interesting time for me right now where I have kids, I have friends who are having kids myself and another good friend of mine have met partners who could be potential life partners. And then I have people of my dad's friends and age dying. So it's like I'm almost, it's like seeing the whole cycle and the whole spectrum and then just realizing like it's going to be. my day one day soon where I'm going to have to bury my parents and there is going to be that hole, you know, and I don't know. That's, I mean, it's part of life. It goes on and new life comes

forth, but it is quite a saga that we endure as human beings. Yeah. And it seems like the film, your life, the path that you've been on, it seems like you really have awoken, and I think a lot of people should awaken to this reality that because we get stuck in these ruts and you just you kind of lose sight of what life could be what life is around you uh you get through the daily motions and stuff i mean for instance i mean man listen i i'm 36 years old in october i've been with my wife for 18 years of my life that's half my life i've been with one lady like i don't like i don't know what it's like to be without my wife you know and so yeah you get you get put in these these grooves of life and you kind of lose perspective of what's going on around you, you know, and what life is all about. Listen,

your roommate at the end of the film who's out in the water with you, is he one of the guys that abandoned this project with you? No, he's not. If he was on board, he would have come to. I was going to say, sure, you show up in the sun's shining, pal. Where were you before? Oh, man. So that's really interesting stuff, man. And I'm really glad I'm glad I got a guy chance to talk with you about this stuff. Before we started recording, you said to feel free to ask the other things. So I will ask you, because this is a paranormal show and stuff, do you know of any like Dominica legends lore of, you know, hauntings or, you know, creepy monsters crawling in the rainforest or anything like that that, you know, might fancy somebody's ear for my show?

Yeah. There's a, there is a folklore creature called Asuku. which is, if I remember correctly, it's essentially almost like a type of witch. But she, I'm pretty sure at night, she like goes around without skin on, but also is deadly beautiful as well. And it's interesting. I saw this map of like folklore creatures,

and it was interesting to see where some of these different ones come from and where they crop up in different countries as well. And I think this one also shows up in like Mauritania or something like that. But I would say we've got a good amount of folklore legends here, which I should brush up on. I would say the other sort of like paranormal type stuff is, experiences with, let's say, plant medicine. I don't know if you're familiar with DMT.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if you've ever had an experience. No, I haven't, but I've heard a lot of people talk about it. It is one of the most bizarre things that I've ever experienced in my entire life. And it is literally like being rocketed out through into like hyperspace. like either in the middle of deep space or like a computer and you literally meet beings. And I remember feeling like I was being like folded through the universe in different ways. And then like these beings just being like, yeah, welcome.

This is how it works. And I was like, oh, shit. And then within 15 minutes like you're back in your body just being like, what the fuck? And it's to me, it's a really. curious thing because DMT is something that is in, you know, so many living things and it's released en masse when you're born and when you die. So they think there is a link between it and sort of, I guess, the afterlife or other dimensional experiences or whatever else. And there's a really interesting book called DMT, the spirit molecule, where this doctor, Dr. Rick Straussman

was able to do pioneering research on this thing and then do clinical trials and record everyone's different experiences and how interesting it was that even people from different cultures and different sort of like backgrounds are experiencing very similar things, which then begs the question, is it a full hallucination or is it a step into another dimension? Yeah, and that's the biggest question I have because of all the similarities of people's experiences. Listen, I used to deliver to a place and pick up freight. I used to, you know, driving truck and stuff.

And there's this guy that was talking to me about DMT. And he found out I was a podcaster. And you ever hear Joe Rogan? Yeah. Yeah, Joe Rogan is the ultimate DMT enthusiasts. Yeah. And he said, I'm going to try DMT. I said, oh, man, I'd be interested to hear how that goes for you and stuff.

And what he did was, now apparently it's illegal, but he ordered a frog that produces DMT, and he had delivered to his house so he can make his own DMT. And he told me it was a trip. He said it was the most, he said that he went into that experience as an atheist and he came out believing there's a God. And I was just like, wow, that's some heavy, that's some heavy stuff, man. That's some heavy, heavy stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyways, when you were out in the woods, did you ever have any of those kind of thoughts crossed in mind? Like, what if there's like a scary witch out here to get me or anything like that?

Because, I mean, when I go out in the woods, I'm kind of looking for that kind of stuff, you know? So I wasn't sure if I'm just... You know, it's funny. I personally never sort of bought into that stuff too much. Although now that I've heard more and more stories, I'm almost like, I'm very curious now to find out a little bit more. The two sort of trippy experiences I had. One was that I started hearing voices. Out the jungle. Yeah. And I was well aware that, well, at first I was like, wait, who's there? Then I was well aware they were in my head because one was my dad's voice. And then another was like a voice from like a teacher in England when I was like four years old. You know, things that I, that are so buried in your head that you don't even know you have

a recollection of. And then these voices are coming up. I think this is just one of these things that happens with isolation is now your brain is like, okay, it needs feedback. And so it starts generating these things. But it was so trippy because it's like, I know no one is saying them, but I can't convince myself to not hear them. Like, I'm hearing them. And then the other thing that was really weird, I can't remember if this started right before the hurricane or right after. But I started hearing this chanting and it was almost like Native American type chanting. And again, it was the same thing where it's like I could be having a conversation with you. And I'd be like, just by the way, I'm also hearing this chanting right now.

Like I can continue having this conversation with you. But I just want to let you know, like I'm fully on hearing this. And that only lasted like maybe a day or two after the hurricane. But again, it was so bizarre to be hearing something like that, something that you have no reference for or no reason for it to generate, and then also seeing this completely like what was this verdant, lush landscape completely barren, like a bomb went off. It was pretty far out.

And I've had friends who have told me similar stories as well. And again, I think it just goes back. at any single point in history, humankind has thought that we pretty much know it all. And then two generations down the line, they look back at us and they're like, wow, you guys really thought you knew it all. There's all this other stuff going on.

So I personally would not really be surprised if there's just that reality is a lot more complicated and there's a lot more dimensions to it than we can currently put our finger on. And that's why I think, you know, paranormal type stuff is really interesting because it's stuff that we can't currently verify with science. And yet there are so many people that are saying that having these experiences and don't have a reason to lie about them. In so many cases, they're almost like shy to talk about it

because people are going to think you're crazy. You know what I mean? Yeah, I 100% know what you mean. I think the nice thing about technology is sometimes you're able to document some of the strange things that people are claiming happen. For instance, I was just out in the woods of Pennsylvania exploring this megalithic rock structure that's, you know, some say it happened naturally. Some say it was actually built, but not many people know exists. And when I was up there, it was nighttime and the guy behind me was filming. And I asked him, he was ready to go and he said, yeah, and we start walking. And we didn't know this at the time. But on the footage when I was reviewing it, my dad was in the studio with me. And we were just looking at the footage.

and we both heard at the same time, there was a female voice that whispered into the mic and just said, okay, real softly, but it was extremely clear. And I couldn't believe it because later that night, when we're kind of getting ready to go, we're sitting on these rocks talking. No cameras were on, unfortunately. And I heard a little girl voice about maybe 50, 60 feet away talking. And it freaked me out. And I was the only one that heard. He didn't hear it. And I thought maybe I was just, you know, going crazy. But then maybe like an hour before that, we didn't know at the time, but we caught this voice on our, on our microphone saying okay to us. It almost as if like when I asked him, are we good to go? And he says, yeah, it sounded like whatever was with us said, okay, like they were

good to go too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like, I don't know, maybe two, three minutes after that happened, I was telling him on camera how I feel like these woods could be haunted and everything. And it's just crazy. I mean, I also, just before we started talking, I had somebody send me a video of a trail cam of a possible Bigfoot walking across the film. And there's definitely something walking on two legs across the film. I don't know if it was a big foot, but it's the idea that technology maybe could aid in the helping to understand the mystery of all this stuff. Now, I wanted to ask you, before we get out of here, how is the island doing now? I mean, it was, I mean, when you went back to your parents home and stuff, I mean, it's not like the woods got destroyed and everybody's houses were fine. I mean, things were destroyed. And, you know, you guys were dealing with people trying to loot then and things like that. Has everything kind of turned back to normal? Yeah. So, so I think we've, honestly, we've done an amazing job, both the government and in the national community and Dominicans being resilient people and just building things back and getting on with life. The, the, and honestly, if you look around, now, you wouldn't really know a major hurricane had passed by.

There's a couple of dead patches in the interior where you'll be driving through and you'll see just like there's some trees that got it so bad even though they didn't fall. They are just like skeletons and not growing back. But the challenge is that we just basically got over this hurricane and then COVID has struck. And tourism is one of the main income generators here. and no one is traveling right now. So again, I think one of the beautiful things with Dominica, as I kind of try to touch on in the film,

is we do have a certain amount of self-sufficiency that there's enough land and know-how to be able to farm and get your essentials. But especially living in the modern world, there are other things that you need, and it's definitely not an easy time. for for anyone anywhere, really. I think, again, as I mentioned to you before, we started,

we are lucky that we're basically COVID-free right now, which means that unlike a lot of you guys, we're able to pretty much move quite freely within the island and retain a pretty normal lifestyle, which we are all definitely grateful for. But, yeah, it just seems like it's life challenge after challenge comes at you and you just have to sort of stay the course.

Well, I guess I'll be blowing up a raft and floating my way over there then. I'll tell you, they are a good amount of people showing up in Dominica right now, not mass tourism, but a lot of cool people who are showing up realizing like, one, you can be free here

and two, then they're like, oh my God, I would never have found this place if it wasn't for COVID because this got canceled and then I have to come here. And they come here and they're like, wow. I don't think I want to leave. Yeah, I'm never leaving now. That's amazing.

Are you ever going to do anything like this again as far as trying to do maybe a full six months out in the wilderness? That would be fantastic. When, I don't know, things are so busy right now. I do have other projects that I'm working on that hopefully will incorporate similar themes. But I don't know when that's going to happen. But I wouldn't rule it out. And if I do do it, I'll let you know when it's happening. Awesome, man. I appreciate it. So before we leave here, let the people know where they can get your film again and what kind of deals are waiting for them if they haven't taken advantage of it yet.

Yeah, most definitely. So the film is available at uncivilized.com. If you use the promo confessionals, you can get the film for free and there's 20 of those. And if you use the code Merkel, M-E-R-K-E-L, there's 100 of those for 50% off. And across social media, we're at Uncivilized. film. Well, Michael Lees, I appreciate you spending some time with me and talking about this stuff. It's been fascinating, man. Absolutely. Fantastic conversation. Thanks for having me. Well, that's a sure, buddy. I really hope you enjoyed it. And if you did enjoy it, please share the show with your friends. I don't care where or how you share the show. Just share the show if you enjoyed it. I know it wasn't a typical paranormal type show today, but I thought it was a great conversation. I really like talking to Michael about his experiences in the island of Dominica and surviving the hurricane and just life in general. It was a really good conversation.

I had and I wanted to make sure I shared it with you guys. So hopefully you enjoyed it and share it around if you did. And remember, check out the beard oils, the confessionalspodcast.com slash store or just hit the store tab and click the beard product section and it will redirect you to anointed AK.com, which is the company that does all the beard oil products. And we have three new scents out right now, Windigo, Cush Taka, and the Rake. I'm telling you guys, you're going to absolutely love it. And until next week, stay safe.

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