The Confessionals - 359: Extraordinary Contact | Debra Jordan-Kauble

Episode Date: July 27, 2021

In Episode 359: Extraordinary Contact, we are joined by Debra Kauble, who is better known by her pseudonym Kathy Davis, the name given to her by the author of the book “Intruders,” Budd Hopkins. Debra has a well-known UFO encounter that occurred in the 1980s. After a devastating personal experience, Debra was staying with family and spent an evening visiting with a friend. During her visit, her mother called her back home because something strange was happening. When she arrived, she was faced with something that needed an investigation outside. That investigation turned into an up-close experience with a UFO and missing time, and set Debra on a new course as she tried to find answers in the middle of ongoing strangeness.SPONSORSGET SIMPLISAFE TODAY: https://simplisafe.com/confessionalsGET Hello Fresh: https://hellofresh.com/confessionals14 Promo Code: "confessionals14" for 14 FREE MEALS!!!GET ACORN.TV: https://acorn.tv/ Promo Code: "tony" (Code must be applied in all lowercase letters!)Get Emergency Food Supplies: http://www.preparewiththeconfessionals.comGet Beard Oil: https://bit.ly/2FbOhN5CONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] Community: Text "YUP" to 844-215-0819Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/the-newsletter SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIDiscord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7h Show Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: merkificationFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcast Twitter: @TConfessionals Tony's Twitter: @tony_merkelSHOW INTRO Show Intro INSTRUMENTAL: www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyub39AXxUw Show Intro FREE DOWNLOAD: https://bit.ly/2HxNcw3

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Hey, before we get into this week's show, I want to let you know that at the end of this episode, we are airing a brand new custom outro song

by Van Tesla called Bigfoot. It's a song that we're going to be using on the end of these episodes now as a custom outro song.

I'm really excited about it. It sounds awesome. And if you're somebody who drops out at the end of the interviews, maybe stick around

and check out the new song. All right, let's get to this week's episode. This was all circulating around the base that a giant had been killed, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, bony fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me.

And this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing up this giant. With a giant move, he's got a spear in one hand and he's running really fast and spears Dan holds them up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face. They basically decapitated. Feel something pulling at my leg and I look over and there are two small gray entities pulling it and they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed.

I reached my hand into this bush and I touch air. breathe and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. Yeah. Welcome to the show, everybody. You're listening to The Confessionals. I am your host, Tony Merkel. Thank you for being here. If you have an encounter or a story you like to share with me on the show, go ahead and

shoot me an email. My email address is The Confessionals at the Confessionalspodcast.com. That's The Confessionals at the Confessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, the Confessionalspodcast.com. Hit the contact section and you can reach me that way as well. Either way works for me, just get a hold of me. If you want more shows on a weekly basis, just go to the website, the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the join button, and there you'll get access to extra episodes on a weekly basis.

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That's prepare with the confessionals.com. And there you can get yourself emergency supply food and survival gear that will last you for years. You'll always be ready in case that time comes where you need it. And everyone is always going to have that emergency pop up, whether it's power outages, awful storms or craziness in the world. You just want to make sure you can take care of yourself and your family, and you can do that at Prepare with the Confessionals.com. Last but not least, YouTube,

go to the Confessionals on YouTube and hit subscribe. We are working on producing our first episode of Legion of Legends, where I go out hunting for the legends that we heard about on this show and other things. We're going to be doing treasure hunting as well with that show. I'm a big fan of Lost Treasures, and we're going to be definitely doing that with Legion of Legends. I'm buying quite a few books on local treasures here in Pennsylvania that have been lost. I'm going to find them, folks, and you're going to watch the whole process. It's going to be a lot of fun right there on Legion of Legends broadcasting on the Confessionals YouTube channel. So go ahead and hit subscribe. We're also uploading the archive there slowly but surely.

And every week a new episode is released there as well. So when you hear this on Tuesdays, Tuesday nights, it's released on YouTube so people can listen and watch those interviews on YouTube. All right. This week we have an awesome guest coming on. We have Deborah Cable coming on. Now, she has a very famous story about alien encounter, UFO encounter, and the bizarre things that circle around it. We only scratched the surface. Deborah is somebody that we're going to have to have back on the show, maybe quite a few times, because she has a life of experiences and not just with ET, but the paranormal. Like, her story that you're going to hear today happen, I feel like right in the middle.

There's a lot of things that happened leading up to it and a ton of things that happened after it. And we just kind of scratched the surface today. But Deborah has a story for the ages and you're going to hear today. Thank you very much for being here. Now, let's get to Deborah right now. All right. Today we got a much anticipated guest. This is somebody that, and forgive me, the listener out there that tipped me off to Deborah,

but I don't remember, or else I'd give you a shout-up. But today we have Deborah Jordan. I was practicing your last name, Deborah. I told myself I wasn't going to mess it up. It's Kabul, right? That's right. It's cobble. It's not really mine. It's my husband. So it's okay. I used to do the same thing. You know, I used to work with a guy. He was Italian. And his last name was, to be honest with, I still can't pronounce it. And the one day I was talking to he's probably about 65, pushed in 70. And I was walking with him through the terminal one day. And I said to him, hey, guy, how do I pronounce your last name? He just looked at me. He's like, I don't even know. Right. That's about where I was when I first got married. Oh, it's fun time. So, Debra, we're going to be talking to you about some things today. And it's going to be a very much fluent conversation, wherever you want to go with it. And you have a life of experiences. In fact, the more I learned about you, the more I realized that I don't think we can tackle everything about your life in one show. And that

Unless you have about 24 hours to talk straight, then we could probably do it. I don't know if I got the voice for that, though. Yeah, I certainly don't either. But you have been on the UFO talking circuit and stuff at conferences based off of your experience with what you and your family went through. But that's not all. You guys have gone through paranormal experiences. And that's something I found interesting because a lot of times people who are speaking for UFO stuff, that I've seen, they tend not to talk about the other stuff. And every time I hear you talk,

you mentioned, you're like, and we've had a lot of paranormal stuff and it kind of gets glossed over with the UFO shows. But I talk about everything. So I'm game for whatever. But I want to, before we get into your experience, though, I want to let people have the opportunity to find out who you are. So if you could, just let them know what you're about and maybe where they can find your book, or actually books because you just came out with the second one. Well, yeah. My name's Debbie Jordan Cable, but people in the UFO community,

especially old-timers, will probably know of me better under the pseudonym that Bud Hopkins gave me when he wrote Intruder's, the incredible visitations at Copley Woods, which was about me and my family and the experience I had on June 3083, plus a lot more stuff.

But the pseudonym that he gave me in that book was Kathy Davis. So a lot of people might know me more by that if they know me at all. And this whole new generation, you know, people don't know who I have at all. I mean, the June 3083 incident that's the central part of intruders, that happened 38 years ago, which I can't believe that was just the 38th anniversary of it this past June 30th. But, and, you know, Bud Hopkins, who he wrote missing time, then he wrote intruders, then he wrote witnessed, and I believe he wrote a book called Site Unseen. He was like a pioneer in the field of uphology, especially along the subjects of abductions and contacts in CE4, CE5s. and I had reached out to him after that particularly harrowing incident in 83,

I got his address out of the book, Missing Time, and went back, got the book out of the library and wrote him a big letter, and that's how I got contact connected with him. But, you know, after he wrote intruders, he traveled around a lot, speaking at conferences and stuff and I would go with him occasionally. I was real nervous about it. And honestly, we really didn't want a book written at the time when I reached out. I just wanted to know what was going on and help some normalcy.

But ended up there being the book. And then there was a miniseries picked up. I think it was in 1992 of the same name. And there were a lot of scenes in the miniseries that came right out of that book. And in my travels around with him, which I didn't do a lot of, but I did do some. I got asked the same questions over and over again. Plus other things were happening even after Intruders was written. And that's when I decided that I wrote that first book.

It was called Abducted, the Story of Intruders Continues. And it was actually written with my older sister who also had had some experiences with a UFO back in the 60s. So that book came out. You know, time passed. My experiences changed. The paranormal stuff really kicked in. Just all kinds of weird things happening in my life. And even regular life got kind of weird a few times, you know.

So I kind of pulled away and I really didn't like talking about this, didn't want to talk about it. I was done. My attitude was like, just leave me alone. I want a normal life. And I was trying to be invisible. You know, that was not working. Destiny had other plans for me because I kept getting drop kicked right back into it with one experience or another. And so I ended up working on the.

book that just came out a few weeks ago called Extraordinary Contact, Life Beyond Intruder's. And it actually got finished. I worked on that book for years and years. And sometimes I'd have to put it away and not look at it for a year because life, you know, happened. And I was working full time for 15 years in a factory and doing all kinds of other stuff and, you know, just didn't have time. but then coronavirus came and the plant that I worked in was shut down for seven weeks and in that seven weeks I finished this book and found a publisher who wanted to publish it. So it's done, it's out, it takes from intruders forward. You know, this is a lifetime of weird stuff and I'm 62 years old.

So that's a lot of stuff. You know, like you said, we won't be able to get. to a lot of it in an hour or even too. But there's a lot of it in the book. And there's also more of it even on my web page, on my website that we have, that I've had for like 25 years. People can go to my website at www.debshome.com. And they can order my book from there. They can get it on Amazon, Books a Million, Kindle, Barnes & Nobles, just like almost all major online booksellers. You can get it there. Like I said, and my publisher is August Night Press. They are through, they're out through the UK, but they're great. You know,

I can't think of a better time in history for you to drop this book than now. I know. Are you kidding me? Like, like I said, I worked on this book for years. And then I'd have to put it away and didn't have time. And then here came the pandemic and all I had was time. And, you know, when you're stuck in the house for seven weeks with your spouse that you're used to going out and going to work every day, you know, kind of gets on your nerve. So I was a lot of time in my office. And as I was finishing this up and talking to other people, I'm, you know, they're like, oh, my God, look, look what's happening. You know, there was starting to be talk about the, the government was going to start coming out with stuff.

This was like early, you know, in January, February. People were already talking about June 25th, you know, way back then. And it's like, I don't know, everything in my life and in the world just kind of all dovetailed for me. Because also at this point in my life, you know, once we got back to work from the pandemic, then I, left. I basically am retired. So one door is closed and another one open at the same time. And, you know, I've done like two or three, I've done, well, okay, I've done like six podcasts this week and radio programs just this week. Well, you know, because I'm, I do have this book that I would like to get out there to people. People need to hear it, hear about it. But it's like, I'm,

I've never done that many in my life because it was never, you know, something I like to do much of. I like to be on the other side. I like to be you because I had my own podcast with my buddy Greg for years, you know, Midwest Paratoch. And we just kind of bantered back and forth and we'd have subjects. Sometimes we'd have gas and stuff. So, I mean, I like being on the other side of the mic. Yeah. Yeah, I find it very interesting when I'm invited to go on somebody.

this show to talk about, you know, topics and stuff. It's a different feeling. And I, and I typically, I don't like it because I'm not in control. I, you know, they're asking me questions. And I'm like, on the hot seat, I'm thinking, this, this isn't cool. Like, I don't like it. I know. And, you know, people ask me, you know, of course, a lot of people ask me about certain things in the book or things in my life, mostly about stuff that's in the book that they were struck by. And, I mean, I've lived this whole life. There's a lot of little detail. and stuff that I don't remember right off the bat. It's one of the reasons I wrote everything down because A,

there was so damn much. And B, I'm old. I don't remember things I used to, you know. So it made me worried, but so far, so I've been, you know, I've been popping. I've been doing real good. So I remember. I wrote everything down.

I was really, I felt compelled. I was like driven to do this book because, I wanted it out of here. My dad and my older sister both had dementia. And, you know, I was kind of nervous that would be my fate. And there was so much in my head that I hadn't gotten written down yet. And I kept journals. So I wrote a lot of things down.

I wanted to get it out of here and on the paper before something happened. You know, I wanted other experiencers out there to be able to read my book and understand they're not alone. and maybe see a little bit of themselves in it and maybe find a little courage in it to come out and talk about their own experiences and not feel, you know, afraid. And also for my grandchildren and their children so that some, you know, they'll remember me someday. They'll know who I am, where they came from, you know, what they may have to experience in their life. So. Yeah, you know, that's so important to me as well. And I kind of feel like I'm doing that with podcasting. You know, I think a lot of times,

Like, sometimes I get, you're by yourself and you think morbidly sometimes and you start thinking about, you know, I'm 36 years old. My son's three. My daughter's one. And I think, you know, if I were to die, my kids are never going to know who I am. And then I start thinking, well, they got over 300 episodes they could listen to and kind of get an idea of who dad was, you know. Well, they'll cherish that too. I guarantee you they will cherish that. And I'm hoping that my future, you know, I have a granddaughter and whoever is related to me in the future, hopefully they'll take these things that I've written in my journals and the drawings and stuff and I'll live in them some way. Yeah, I mean, who knows in the future, history could look back at people like

you as pioneers of thought and through sharing your experiences, opening humankind's mankind's eyes up to the idea of, you know, reality is far stranger than what we've been taught to think it is. Oh, exactly. I mean, that's my whole thing. I feel like that's part of my destiny and why I am here, why I was born in this time and this place and have had these experiences and I'm doing what I'm doing now. That's what I'm supposed to be doing is even if I don't expect people to believe everything I tell them, I wouldn't, I would be skeptical. if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. And also, if I hadn't had a bunch of people with me,

if it were always only just me, I would, you know, wonder, is there something wrong with me? Why is it only just me? But it's always been family members and friends and neighbors. I've very, I can't think of very many of my experiences at all that I had alone. There was almost always somebody else involved. And that's kind of a good thing, I think, you know, going forward. And I just, I feel like part of my job is to get people to at least listen and have an

open mind. And if I said one thing or did one thing that helped one person move forward in their journey, then I have done what I came here to do. Because I believe that we are all connected. We are all a part of something bigger. And when one of us is lifted or propelled forward, we all go. And we're all lifted. So, you know, I feel like I have a part in that. Yeah. And I'm glad you said that too, because that's something I say on my show a lot with people in the listening audience. I mean, I'm not here. You're not here. We're not here to force you to think something. We're not here to make you believe. I am not invested in trying to have 100% of my audience believe every person that's on the show, believe me, believe my thoughts or my opinions. We're just here promoting

open conversation, thought, and trying to get people to get comfortable with the idea of thinking outside the box of what we are traditionally comfortable thinking on. And we do that through people's experiences. And so I'm glad I'm glad you said that because I think very similar to that. Now, let's get into the, I guess we'll start off with the, you know, the grand finale one, you know, which is the June 3083, which you've, you know, talked about, I'm sure, hundreds of times, thousands of times. Yeah. But. Yeah, it's the beginning of, it wasn't the beginning of the contact that I had. That had gone way back into childhood.

but that was a pivotal point in my life where I always said that at that point, that night, whatever happened to me, something in me changed. And my life took off in a completely different direction than it would have ever before. And something happened, something big happened that night. But I was living with my parents at the time. I was a single mom. I had two little kids. And I was about to go to the house behind. us, the neighbor behind us was a friend of mine and she was a costume designer and seamstress

and I would cut patterns out for her and she'd give me a little extra spending money. I'd earn some money from her to help out. And so I was about to go sew and I was standing in the kitchen washing my hands, getting ready to leave and I noticed a strange light in the pump house of the swimming pool at my parents' house and I thought that is weird. I couldn't put my finger on it at the time, but I realized something wasn't right about And I wasn't thinking about aliens or UFOs or anything like that. I was thinking about burglars and the fact that I was about to leave my mom and my two little kids there at the house alone because my dad was working second shift at the factory down the street.

So I mentioned it to her as I left and she said really don't worry about it. But it was still stuck in my mind because it didn't sit quite right. So as I left, I took the side turnaround just to be able to have. have a better look at the backyard before I took off. And I noticed the light was gone, but the pedestrian door to the garage was open, which I knew it wasn't earlier because my dog had been in there. But instead of stopping, since I was just going to be one street behind, I just scurried up on over to my friend's house and I called her as soon as I got there.

And I said, hey, the pedestrian doors opened the garage. And she's like, I don't worry about it. I haven't heard anything. I'll just lock the doors. Your dad will be home soon. She didn't seem to be affected or bothered by it at all. So that's fine. So I hung up the phone.

And just as I took my hand off the receiver, it rang. So I just like picked it right back up and answered it. And it was my mom. And she said, I want you to come home right now. And she sounded freaked out, scared, weird, different. And I said, why? What's going on? And I was disturbed by, I'm sure you could.

my friend and her husband could hear in my voice because he yelled over my shoulder, tell her to call the police. That's what we pay them for. And she heard him. And she said, no, I don't want anybody here but you. I'm like, okay. So I went back home. I pulled up that same side drive. And I went through in the patio room and everything was facing this back area.

And mom was in there. And I picked up the shotgun. and then my father had stashed behind the trash compactor. It was not loaded because he didn't keep it loaded while we were living there with my little kids. I was on me. You know, I asked for that. But mom says, you know that's not loaded right. And I said, yeah, I know it's not loaded.

But whoever I'm going to smack upside the head with does not know that it's not loaded. And, you know, it's strange because I was not a brave person. I would do that now. Not much scares me anymore. it. I've seen a lot. But I would have, that was out of character for me at the time to go out there in the dark. And, you know, but I did, didn't see anything. Found the dog under the, uh, uh, ladder truck that my father's ladder truck out back, but she wouldn't come out from under the car, the vehicle. So I went into the garage and I, because that was only other place there could be someone was in that garage. and flip the light on and I'm looking around and all of a sudden I feel like I'm on fire.

It feels like my skin is on fire and I remember thinking, oh my God, I got to get out of here right now. And I started to run towards the pedestrian door. When I hit that open doorway, something hit me in the chest. Like right in your solar plexus area, a light that was so intense and so bright that I know my eyes were shut. but yet I could still see it so strong and it hurt, hurt my eyes. I could feel every molecule of my body individually. I could feel it, vibrate individually. I felt like I was coming apart at the molecular level.

I mean, the vibration and the burning and the weird sensation of time stopping, you know, it was just overwhelming. and I remember the one thought in my head was, oh my God, I'm dying or I'm dead. You know, this is what it's like to die. And I don't know how long that whole thing lasted because it, like I said, time just kind of stopped for me at that point. But then suddenly the intensity let go and the shaking and the vibrations start to stop. and I started to feel like wasn't on fire anymore, but I could not move.

I couldn't move anything but my eyes, although I was outside the doorway now on the patio in front of the garage there a little bit. And I felt something pulled down on my shoulder at one point from behind. Somebody pulled down really far. And it felt like somebody stuck in my mind's eye, I visualized. a knitting needle that was like on hot poker fire stuck in my head from my ear all the way to the middle of my head. And I couldn't scream. But the voice that there was a disembodied voice. I heard somebody from behind me say it was unfortunate that I had felt that pain. And later when I

thought about it, it's like I don't think that whatever harmed me or whatever hurt. I don't think it was intentional or malicious, you know. And then the, um, I noticed some movement out in front of me in the yard, but my eyes were blown at this point, like white splotches all over my vision. Like if somebody takes your picture with the old time flash bulbs and you forget to blink and then you're like blind, you can't see anything. I mean, that's why my eyes were after that blast of light, but I could see movement and I could see some, I could make out some shapes. I thought there were children in mom's yard. And I thought, I remember thinking, why are these kids in our backyard? There was like six of them.

They came from all parts of the, they came from all parts of the yard and kind of moved into a line in front of me up, off to my right. And they started to glide together. It was a weird kind of gliding motion. They didn't walk. They just kind of slid, you know. down in front of me, and that's when I saw the thing on the other side of the yard to my left, it was egg-shaped. It was not very big.

It was not much bigger than the pump house of the swimming pool. And like I've said a million times in retrospect, I can't imagine for the life of me that it would be some kind of a spaceship because I have no clue how even six little kids could get in there and go anywhere. I mean, they would be like this. Because it wasn't that big. So I don't know what that was in the yard. But it was, like I said, egg-shaped, wider in the middle, kind of like an egg. And then I don't think it was all the way on the ground because I remember kind of seeing it bobble a little bit. And it reminded me of like a bobber on a fishing pole on a really smooth lake.

where you might see it just wiggle just a tiny bit. And it had four things coming out of the middle of it and down onto the ground. But they were real skinny. You could call them legs, but I don't know that they were intended to support weight. I almost felt like they were more for stabilization, you know. But I mean, this is all thinking back on it after that. At that point, all I could see was something in the yard that wasn't supposed to be there. and I did not want it to get near me.

And I remember thinking, I don't want to look at this. I don't want to look at this, but I can't not look at it because I need to know where it is. I don't know why. You know, I need to know where it is in relationship to me as well as these kids. And they all slid down into this thing. There was a ball of light about the size of a basketball, maybe 25 feet in front of me out in the yard by this thing. It was about as high up off the ground as I am tall. I'm 5'3.

It went down really slowly and then it came right back up to where it had started. And at that moment, I felt that it was looking at me. I don't know why, but that's what I thought. And I remember thinking at some point also, oh, my God, my kids, they're in the house, you know, with my mom. And I'm thinking, oh, my God, my kids. And the soon as I thought that, that voice happened again and it said, your kids are fine. your children are fine. And then the next thing I remember is hearing my name.

And when I heard my name, it was as if somebody snapped their fingers and everything I just described to you went away. It was gone out of my head. And my next memory is of walking across the back patio up to the steps to the upper porch where the kitchen was and mom was kind of like had her head out the door. and she is the one that had called my name. And she said, are you okay? Is everything all right? And I said, yeah, everything cool.

But in my head, I'm thinking, I don't want to sew anymore. I feel weird and gross. And I just want to get wet. I kept thinking, I want to get wet. I need to get my skin wet. I just feel weird. So I went back to my friend's house. And oddly enough, you know, when Bud came to start the investigation,

of this incident, it was discovered that there were about an hour and a half, hour 15 minutes of time between the time I left my friend's house and the time I got back to her house. What I've just told you, that wasn't an hour and 15 minutes worth of stuff. I don't still, to this day, remember all of it. But another interesting thing was when Bud came to do the investigation and he talked to the two people that I had gone to the house to sew with. Even they were consciously aware of how long I had been gone because they were trying to dispute it. I mean, they were like, she wasn't gone that long. And he said, oh, yeah, here's the. And then they're like,

wait a minute, yeah, she was. Then they were shocked that they hadn't been more disturbed because they would have been worried because they knew I was going home because I thought there was a prowler or something going on. But so the next, so she can, she comes back to, to my house with her daughter and we decide to swim instead of cut patterns and sew, which is cool. I mean, it's almost July. It's a night, you know, it's a hot night. And as we walk across the backyard, her daughter steps on something in the yard.

And we thought maybe she'd stepped on a bee or something, but we didn't see anything. But she kept complaining there. Her foot was tingling. And then she said her foot was getting numb and it was going numb. leg and stuff. But we didn't see anything. But all of us started feeling a little queasy, a little nauseous. And my eyes started hurting really bad. We were probably in the pool, maybe 10 minutes or less. And I was starting to see halos around all the lights outside that were around the pool and stuff. And my eyes hurt. And I don't know why, but my friends like, hey, let's go to White Castle.

Maybe we'll get something to eat, we'll feel better. And if you know what White House, Castles are you're not going to feel better. They call them gut bombers for a reason. So, but anyway, we, so for some reason, we thought that was a good idea. So we dried off and we hopped in the car and we were getting ready to go to White Castle. But that got aborted. We came to our senses and realized that that's probably not a good idea. So they went ahead and went home.

I went home. And when I woke up the next morning, my eyes were swollen shut and hurt so bad. I was in so much pain that my mom actually took me to the emergency room. And from there, I was taken to an ophthalmologist's office, an eye doctor, where he examined me. And he first question out of his mouth is, have you looked into the arc of a welder's torch? And I'm like, no, why would I do that? That's dumb. I knew better than that.

But I also didn't tell him about what happened the night before, because at that point, I still didn't remember it. The memory came back that weekend. The few days passed, the family all came over to swim, and we were going to shoot off obscene amounts of home fireworks, you know, and annoy all our neighbors. And the kids all went running out to the pool with their towels, and then they immediately came running back in and said,

Grandma, what's wrong with your yard? So then all of us grownups went out there, and there was the mark in the yard. And my mother says, oh, that's where our UFO landed the other night. And I looked at her like, what in the hell did you just say? And I remember thinking that almost exact thing in my head, like, what is wrong with you? Why would you say that? But then when I looked at the mark in the yard, it was like, man, someone just slapped me upside my head.

And I started to remember it. I started to remember what happened a couple of nights. before. I started to remember why my eyes was hurt, messed up so bad. You know, I started remembering things. I remember looking down at the mark in the art and the like superimposed over this mark in my head. I just saw these two big black eyes, these weird looking shimmery, almost alive, big black eyes. And then I pretty much lost my mind. I think I had a nervous breakdown at that point. Life started getting weird.

Like, that wasn't weird enough. I tried digging up stuff on the, I tried digging up pieces of it, which I do have some now. But I was like 100 pounds heavier than I am now. And I was jumping up and down on that stuff with the spade. And I was barely dusting it up. But I managed to chunk some pieces up. And there was a big crack on one side of it.

And I thought, okay, I'm going to take my measuring stick and stick it down there and see how big this crack is. When I dropped the measuring stick, oops, and it disappeared. I couldn't even see it. I don't even know where it went. And the soil had a funny, weird smell to it, kind of almost like matches, very subtle, gross kind of smell. And the grass was just laid down. It wasn't crushed or ground up. It just was like it just laid down and died, turned this weird beige, grayish beige color. and the circle was an eight-foot diameter circle. It had a 49-foot swath that went all the way across the yard and ended in a perfect arc.

The swath was about two feet wide. And that mark in the yard remained there for several years. It healed like a wound and snow melted off of it for the first year. You know, we get two or three. You get a couple inches of snow and how it dusts and covers up the grass and everything, and then you'd go out and look. And a half an hour later, there's the mark. All the snow would just melt right off of it.

And you could take a chunk of this dirt, and you could put it in water and leave it all night. And the next day, you'd have a chunk of dirt in water. I mean, this soil literally repelled moisture. It wouldn't. And there was, even the animals and the dog, they would walk around. the mark. We would see squirrels out in the yard and they would literally walk around this mark in the yard rather than run across it. The family dog walked around it. She wouldn't walk on it. I started to you know, memory started coming back not only of that night and what I had just told you about what I remember, but also of other things that had happened when I was younger. Like, back in the 70s and even younger still in the late 60s. And paranormal activity ramped up at this point, you know, for about a year after that,

it was like off the chain crazy stuff. We were all smokers at the time. And there was a big, we had a giant amber glass ashtray. You know, those one that weighed like 50 pounds and they cost it a fortune. And mom, my sister and I were all sitting at the kitchen table one day having a cigarette. and drinking coffee and talking. And I reached over to flip my cigarette. I just went think like that.

And when I did, that ashtray snapped in half with a loud crack. And one half of it slid to one edge of the table. And the other half slid to the other edge and stopped right at the edge of the table on both sides. And I'm like, damn, did I do that? I thought it was kind of cool. I was not scared. my mom was mad because she said that ashtray, she was like, that ashtray was expensive. What the hell?

And then my older sister was like, I'm going home. Bye. She would get up and leave. So three different reactions from this, you know. We used to add lights would turn on and off. Stereo would turn on and off. You would be down in the basement folding clothes and you'd hear what sounded like two or three kids running around upstairs above you, even though you knew you were home by yourself. and there was a big copper pipe in the basement that wasn't attached to anything.

And it just was kind of hanging above some others. My mom went downstairs one morning to do laundry and that copper pipe was tied in the pressel knot. Yeah. Wow. And my sister was down there. There was a pool table down there. My little sister was down there necking with her boyfriend one time.

And there was a metal storage cabinet there that I used as a closet. when I lived when my room is in the basement. And the doors wouldn't latch. So we had like a coat hanger wrapped around the two knobs to hold it closed. So they're making out on the pool table. And this metal cabinet is there next to the pool table. And my little sister and her boyfriend came running upstairs, screaming bloody murder. They were down there.

And they said it was like someone was inside and punched the door out from the inside and totally bypassed the metal hanger. It just unwound itself and the doors flew open. And there wasn't anybody in there. And they were so freaked out that that boy never came back. But, you know, just a ton of weird paranormal stuff like that started. It really started ramping up after that June 3083 incident. And in the meantime, with all that happening and all my memory is starting to come back,

I thought about that book Missing Time. that I had read months earlier. I never finished it. Every time I tried to read it, I'd have a panic attack. But I went back to the library and got it because I knew that the guy who wrote the book had his address in the back. And it said, if you thought you had an experience like this, please write, you know, tell me about it. So I did. I wrote to him and I sent pictures of the yard and told him the things I was remembering and stuff.

that was happening and also kind of threw my older sister under the bus and told them about her 1965 UFO experience that she had and a few months later, you know, I don't know how many weeks. It was maybe over a month later or more that he called. And I remember I was out when he called and when I came home, my mom said that guy who wrote that book called and I about passed out. And when I, she had written his phone number down and I had it in my hand, I started shaking. And my hands were shaking as I dialed the phone and I could barely speak when he answered. I was so anxious.

But I was that desperate because I was to the point at that point. I thought I was losing my mind. And I thought maybe this guy can help because I didn't know where else to turn. My family was great. Mom and Dad, they were helping me. I was having a hard time sleeping at night and mom was helping me with my kids. and, you know. But, and that's when I met Bud, and that's when the investigation started.

And three years later, the book intruders, you know, came out. That's incredible. And here I am. Yeah. And like, that's just a, that's just a brief synopsis of what your life's been since this incident. I mean, I mean, I'm trying to talk fast and cram a bunch of stuff. Yeah, that's not, that's just the overview.

Yeah, the thousand foot view. it's not easy. I'm just really not easy to try and tell this story and not sound completely like squirrel, squirrel, squirrel, because it's so intertwined and, you know. Yeah. So, because I know you've been on different shows, you've been on TV shows and things like that where, you know, they've been interviewing, interviewing you. With your experience, one of the things that you said that kind of, well, there's a couple of things that caught my eye or my ear. But one, when you were talking about how you felt after the experience and you just wanted to get in water and stuff, it kind of, when you said that, it made me think about how, you know, I listened to a different podcast and one of the shows, and this was years ago, it was like, I forget how I came across that. I used to listen to this one podcast where like the guy would interview people from prison and stuff and all this different stuff. but it wound up going to a podcast where like it was victims of like sexual abuse and things like that and women would one thing that I noticed is that they would talk about how they they just wanted

to get into shower and clean themselves outdoors they just felt icky. Do you think that there's something similar there? I mean, because people talk about with these kind of incidents where they, there was a sexual interaction with an abduction. I don't even know if you think you were abducted. It almost sounds like you might have been, but maybe it was just lost time. You weren't taken anywhere. Have you ever thought about anything like that? Yeah, I don't know if it, you know, I don't, I've thought about what happened to what, what happened the rest of that time that I don't remember, you know, for sure. I never thought about it as as a sexual assault. I've heard what you, I've heard other people say what you're talking about. I, I understand that.

I don't know why I just felt wet. I felt like I just needed to get my skin wet because I just felt weird and gross. And I don't know if it's just because maybe I was somewhere weird and gross things were touching me that I didn't want to touch me. I don't know. You know, it might be along the same lines of someone who is sexually raped or molested. They're being touched by somebody they don't want to be touched by in its gross. you know what I mean. So maybe it's a similar kind of a response. Right. It's like it's like a certain level of violation of personal, you know, space, you know. It's somebody or something that is not supposed to be

around you is around you. And, you know, a lot of people have different opinions about different things. When it comes to the abduction side of things, even though there's a lot of accounts of it being peaceful, one thing that I always have a hard time getting by is the idea of just being an abduction where you didn't ask me if you could take me, you just kind of took me. And in my world, that's kidnapping, you know? It's how like, you know. Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

I didn't ask for any of this. I mean, I know. And times have changed. I mean, like I said, this happened 38 years ago. And back then, you didn't talk about this kind of stuff because you just, didn't people, you didn't talk about it. So that's why there's a whole generation of people like me that don't say anything. The younger people now today, the whole, I guess the paradigm is shifting.

People are more open to things like this. They're more open-minded. They're not as shocked about things. You can go to Walmart and buy a T-shirt with alien heads on it. People pay hundreds of dollars to have an experience that they think they're going to have an experience. Somebody sells them, you know what I mean? Like Dr. Greer, people will pay people to take them out to Skywatch, you know. So times have definitely changed, but this is not something you want to be famous for.

And I still feel like that because, I mean, I'm old school. I'm old. And I spent my whole life trying to figure out what this was. I probably was my biggest skeptic. I called the agricultural agent for the state of Indiana, trying to find out why ground would do this. I called the gas company. I called the electric company. I did everything I could.

And then Bud did testing on the soil when he finally did come. And he had to bake it like 800 degrees for 12 hours. And it still wasn't quite the same. And there was no like life in it. There was not even any bacteria in it. and, you know, I'm still walking around thinking I was crazy because I'm thinking in my mind, too, am I just not remembering something else? What's going on? I mean, a lot of debunkers, they think that, oh, you know, people report these things because they've been hypnotized and the hypnotherapist has planted these ideas in their head and they think it's their own. Well, that wasn't the case. For me, I mean, that may happen somewhere with somebody, but I don't believe that's what happened here. For one thing, it's kind of hard to do to my yard when you happen to my yard with hypnosis, right?

So there's that. And also I can see where somebody that had been sexually molested, you know, as a child. maybe the thought of being abducted would be more something they'd be more comfortable with and haven't been molested by their uncle or something like that, you know what I mean? So, I mean, I think those are valid, but I think that it's wrong to just sweep everybody into one big, you know, and blame everything on that because that's not how it works. Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. you're talking about the soil and I found that interesting because I don't I don't remember where I heard this. I don't know. I highly, I'm not that smart. So I'm assuming that I didn't think of this on myself. But I feel like I heard this somewhere, maybe on a TV show. But I'll just say somebody was talking about the idea, because a lot of people say they see UFOs go in and out of water. And they,

it's something that I have photos of. I have a guy in Canada who there was a storm coming in to the bay that he lives off of and he was trying to take, he took a video of it because there's lightning and everything. And so he was trying to take a picture off the video of the lightning striking the water. And he noticed as he was scrubbing through the video that there was something that in like one or two frames, it was something that just came out of the water and then it was in the middle of the frame and then it was at the top of the frame like it was shooting out of the water. And so he sent it to me, And it's one of the best UFO pictures that I had ever sent to me. It's very unique. And a lot of people talk about how these things go into the water when they see it. And that when it goes into the water, these people who have seen it happen, they say it doesn't make a huge splash that you would think a big object would. It just kind of like almost like the water engulfs it. And people are theorizing that maybe UFOs have some kind of chemical or something about it that actually repels the water away from it and allows it to be accepted into the empty emptiness of where the water would have been and doesn't create that huge splash. And so when you were talking about how whatever

happened to that soil or that that was and the reaction of moisture with water and snow, it kind of fits in with that theory a little bit to me. Well, yeah, I never heard of that theory before, but yeah, it does. That's interesting. That's the first time I've heard that, because definitely the soil and the mark in the yard repelled all moisture. And even when the grass started to grow back ever so slowly, you know, a couple years later, and it was healing like a wound from the outside in. And the grass that did grow into the circle eventually was thicker and the blades were bigger and it was also a different color. It was more of a, it was a deeper green, almost a purplish, deeper green. It was just a thicker, hardier looking grass. It was different

than the grass that was there and the grass that was outside of it. It seemed different. But then years later, you know, if you didn't know what had been there, you would probably not notice it. But since we knew that it had been there, there were times, you know, with the weeds were high or whatever, you could tell kind of it was still there and still slightly different. Yeah, that's weird, though, about the water thing. And I just saw a video not too long ago on TV. I guess it was a military video of one. They were following, we're chasing this dot, you know, and it was in the sky. And then it went down in the water and it just went, it just went down.

and there wasn't a big splash or anything. And I wondered when I saw that, and I thought, oh, why didn't that splash? It just like cut right into it. It was weird. And I thought, I wonder if it's like, because see, I don't know that I always felt like that thing in the backyard. I never called it a craft or I never thought of it as a craft.

That's just what we always called it for lack of something better to call it. Because I felt, like I said, six of anything. even child size in there, can't fly two light years away or whatever in that little tiny thing. That was something different. And I wondered if, and I've heard this described before, and I think I've even had a little bit of an experience with this before. It's like you think you're walking into something. And it's like the size of that little egg shape thing. But then when you get in it, it's huge.

It's like you've stepped into another dimension or another reality. And I think sometimes there is something about all of my experiences and even some of my paranormal experiences that I've had where I almost feel like it's not necessarily alien extraterrestrial from another planet, but maybe something. extra dimensional and maybe even something that lives here right here with us and we just can't see them most of the time most some people can't you know yeah i really feel i feel it's more like that i think that's more plausible than them getting in a spaceship and flying here from another planet they're coming here from somewhere and they're coming here in a way that we don't understand because we're human and we're trying to think of it in human terms and it's not human. So something's happening and it's not what we think.

Yeah, you know, I'm so glad that you said what you said about the craft and the idea of like, almost like you walk in and it opens up and it's bigger than what you thought because I was thinking that, but I didn't want to say it. I was like, should I say? Should I not say it? Because I don't want her thinking I'm just some sci-fi crazy guy. She's like, what am I talking to this guy for? No, no, no, it's cool.

And it is, it's like sci-fi. I mean, and it is. I mean, it's just, and I, and I, and I've got this little voice in my head all the time that says, today is science, science fiction is tomorrow, science fact, you know. Exactly. And I remember watching Star Trek with my dad when I was little, you know, and I had a major crush on Captain James T. Kirk, because he was so cute. But, I mean, look at him. They walked around with their, their, uh, you. you know,

tricorders and they look like cell phones. And they communicated by pushing a little button like we push on our Apple watches. And the doors slid open when you walked up to them. I mean, you know, I'm seriously, today's science fiction is tomorrow's science facts. But this stuff is, this is crazy stuff. But it's happening now. Yeah. You know, and I've heard this talked about, too, about the whole idea of these things, maybe being among us more than coming to us from other places because there's a lot of ways to think about this kind of stuff.

But if you go with the theory of that, you know, with what we do with technology, we're sending radio waves out into the universe and we're catching the attention of these beings. Or let's just say when we dropped nuclear bombs, it just sent shock waves through the universe and that we got their attention. And at that point, people start talking about how, well, by time the energy that we're creating and we're sending out even gets to where these beings are and they have these machines that can just zoom here, well, we probably also be, our generations would be dead before that even, that radio wave even gets to where it's making contact. So it's a very interesting. way to think about it. I tend to think that there's a lot of things going on here. And I do think that the paranormal UFOs, all this stuff, like I think intertwines a lot more than people are probably

comfortable with acknowledging. I believe that. And, you know, I started getting interested with EVPs a long time ago. And I actually did my own EVP. I actually captured an EVP with my nephew, like 30 years ago. And I used the old cassette recorder, you know, the big cassette recorder and the 30 minutes on each side, brand new tape opened it up and just used the microphone that was on the cassette recorder. And when we listened back to it, so clear and so bizarre, an old man's voice said, and it was as if he just talked right into the microphone.

He said, are the spirits listening? Wow. And a little voice behind him, like sounded like a kid, said, can I listen to? Sure. And I looked at my nephew and I said, holy shit, we're the spirit somewhere else and someone's trying to listen to us. And at that moment, I think I grew a new circuit in my brain and kind of went, poof, you know. And so, and I was hooked.

So I started learning more about EVPs and I have some really good ones now that I've captured in the course of becoming a paranormal investigator, which I did for a long time, but I kind of don't do that anymore because I'm old. But I'd like to do it again. They used to call me the antenna because my recorder would pick up things that, and you know, we'd have two or three recorders in the room and mine be the only one that would pick up an EVP. So it's like one of my friends said I was like a bug zapper in the dark. There was something different about my energy and they could see it so they all come there. But I really feel that some of the things that we captured and some of the things I've experienced are dimensional rather than dead people.

Now there were a few EVPs that we got that the people, ID, that we did the investigation for ID the voice. Oh, like that, you know, that's grandma or, you know, and they got real emotional about it. But then there are other times when we'd record things. And I almost didn't think that what we were recording was even on this planet, that we were picking something else out somewhere. And I have had these lucid dreams and vivid dreams. And a vivid dream. and vision-like things where I've written stuff down and draw, drew pictures. And one time my kids were out in the yard playing with soap bubbles. I always tell everyone this story because this is my favorite one. This is my Roy moment, you know, from close encounters when he starts playing with the potatoes at the dinner table, I had this Roy moment. A kid was flinging his big wand of bubbles and a big glob of them just stuck together and

were hanging on his wand, you know? and I was looking at them and I was thinking, that looks familiar. And then I started to realize how it looked familiar and that I had been taught or told somehow that that was what universes look like, that each one of those bubbles was a universe. And that spot where they touched, and just like soap bubbles, it moves,

it slides around and then one pops, then it attaches to another one. And so the little tiny spot where they're connected is only momentary. It's brief and fleeting. But it's in that spot where communication can happen. And I feel strongly that I don't know why that I was told there are people in these bubbles that know we're in our bubble and they're doing things and trying to make things. to help communicate.

And I believe there's people here on this planet in this universe, in this bubble, that know they're there. You know, and I don't know why I've seen this, and I don't know why I know this. And I can't prove anything. And I have no, I don't know anything about science. And I suck at math. But I just remember these things, these images in my head and things that I felt like somebody was trying. to teach me in the most simplest of ways, this kind of stuff. So I know there's more than just aliens flying around in spaceships. So let me ask you, when you had that, let's call it an

epiphany, do you remember roughly when that was, how long ago that was? Yeah, that's been like 30 years ago. That's amazing. Because it was, yeah, it's been about 30 years since I started playing with that and when I had that. Why? Well, because Edward Monet, I believe is Edward Monet, or maybe it was Michukaku, but it was one of those two guys, have been on record taught, and these are well, well respected scientists. And I've heard of Mitch Yukaku. I like him. Yeah, he's, he's, he's around a lot. And that's why I think it's Edward Monet, because I always get, I always get it wrong. And so I think I say Edward, I think it's Edward Monet. But, um, He was being interviewed, I think it was by Chelsea Handler, and she was asking him about the TV series on Netflix, Stranger Things, and the whole idea of the upside down.

Yes, I like that show. Oh, yeah, I love that show. It's crazy. Yeah. So she asked him about it kind of like tongue and cheek, and he basically told her, he said, that's real. He said, we do dabble in parallel universes. That's what he said. I believe it.

I feel like I've been there. I feel like I have been to parallel universes. I can't prove it. And I know it sounds crazy to say. I know a lot of things I say sound crazy. But I know with 100% certainty that there are parallel universes and I've been there. I don't know if sometimes I think I go places when I sleep. When I fall asleep, I go somewhere else, you know.

I mean, I had that. Remember the bus story with the Lars guy? Yeah. Okay. You know, I had a dream about him years later. I did not know at the time when I had the dream about him, when I've had these dreams about him that he had died. He died a couple of years after we met.

And I didn't know that for 20 years. But I dreamed about him. And he came to me, you know, one time he came into hospital, him and he said, why are you here? And I said, because I can't feel my legs. And he's like, you don't need to be here. And the next day, I got up and walked to the bathroom without even realizing that I could feel my legs. And so all the tests that were scheduled were canceled and I went home and my back never went out again. But one time he came to me in a dream. And he said, come here. I want to take you somewhere that is so cool and you're going to love it. And he's

told me, come with me, take my hand. And when I took his hand, everything went dark, and I could hear him talking to me, you know, but he sounded like he was in another room, even though I could feel his hand in my hand. I could feel his hand in my hand, but he sound like he was in another room. And I said, I can't breathe. You know, I was freaking out because I couldn't breathe, but yet I was talking. So apparently I was breathing, but I was freaking out. And I felt weird. And I heard him say, oh shit, you can't go yet. You're not ready. Let go of my hand. And I let go of his hand and I woke up. I mean, I feel like those things are more than dreams. Not only that, when I have these lucid dreams, and I don't have them very often,

most of the time I'm just like everyone else. I go to sleep. I wake up. I think maybe I had a dream, I don't even remember what it was about. You know, an hour later, I don't even remember I had a dream. But every now and then I have stuff like that. And the moment I wake up, I remember it. And the longer I'm awake, the more of it I remember. And I'm in it. I'm not watching it.

And it's in 3D and it's in color. And it's just different, you know? Yeah. And so, like, I, there's something about dreams. I always refer to a guy. He's my friend now. I had him on the show. His name, he has a YouTube channel called Mr. X Dreams.

And he shared a story on my, on my show of a dream that he had where he, I forget all the details, but he actually was like towards the end of the dream. And he sees his sister. And he interacted with his sister, like whether it was waving or something. They just saw each other. And he wakes up and he goes and he sees his sister the next day and he tells her his dream and she had the same dream from her perspective seeing him. And there's something about the dream state. And I'm one of those people. I rarely remember dreams. But I really do have,

I've really come to start believing that there's something up with these dreams and with what you're describing. So if you were going into, let's just call it a parallel universe for generic terms and you're in your dream state, lucid dreaming, and you enter into a parallel universe. that way. Well, we're in our own universe here and this reality that we've come to know. Is there something on the other side that has a similar way of accessing our universe and maybe even intentionally where they can come through to this side? And that's kind of like what you experienced in 83. I think so. I think that's that they're far ahead of us and they're intentionally coming here because they can.

First, they realize we're here and then they figure out a way to come here, you know. And now they get to have this experience in this other dimension. You know, I don't, yeah, I think there's different things going on. I don't think it's just one thing. I think there's different kinds of life forms and entities and whatever going on. I think there's different agendas, just like in, just for humans. Look how many different kinds of humans there are and how many. agendas they have, you know? So I think it's the same thing, just bigger.

Absolutely. I mean, I don't know how much you've ever heard of CERN, which is like a particle accelerator. It's huge. I know. So you know about it. There was a point in my life in the last four or five years than I thought to myself, okay, you guys need to turn that shit off. Yes. Something has happened. Something has happened. happened to my reality and it you have ripped a hole in the space time continuum and this alternate reality which is a shitty one is leaking all over mine and you need to turn it off stop this or else let me go somewhere else because you know I did that's the first thing I thought of when the world started going anywhere is all right then people need to turn that thing off that's what I was

thinking too I was thinking the same thing because I mean I right at the time I started doing the show, the world just started going in a different direction. I'm like, I literally feel like I've slipped into a parallel universe. I do. And I told my husband that. And he just looks at me like, okay. You know, I've said that a million times and people roll their eyes at me, but I'm not kidding you, something happened. Yes. I for real. I mean, I don't know. I mean, obviously I sound crazy, but I really think that. I mean, no, you don't sound crazy at all. And it's like people, they're more comfortable believing, yeah, something happened.

It's called politics. And it's like, well, maybe it's a little bit of a lot. You know? Yeah. That's, yeah, that something weird happened. Yeah. I've been around this world for 60-some years and I'm telling you something weird happened. Big time.

I never seen nothing like this in my life. I did. I really did. I thought that they ripped a hole and that this some, some alternate reality seeped in and screwed up. I screwed my world up, man. I want to go home. I totally, I totally get it. I feel the same way sometimes. I just want to kind of, I want to go back to like, 1999, you know, my childhood before 9-11, you know, just give me the, give me the 20th century back, because it was simpler, like even if it means I have to give up technology. Like, it's just... I'm good with that.

I started my life without technology and I lived a long time without it and I was fine and you'll be fine too, I tell you. But I know. I mean, when I was a little kid, I used to be homesick for a place I'd never been and missed people that I never met, you know? And I, and there's been times in my life when I felt I've had these reoccurring dreams where the world has gone to hell and hand basket and it's like a crazy place and I'm struggling to get to a hill that I have to get to.

And then when I get to the hill, this guy is standing at the top of the hill and nothing going on around him is affecting him whatsoever. Like it's storming and the sky is a weird color. The wind is blowing the rain and the hail and there's there's all kinds of red and blue streaks in the sky. and it's insane. It's insanity. And I get to the hill and this guy is standing there and like he's dry.

The wind isn't affecting him. It's almost like he's looking at me from a doorway and he's in another place where it's not like this. And he says to me, come on, let's go. It's time to go home. And I grab his hand and I wake up. And I've had this dream over and over again. And here lately I've been thinking, you know, you could come and get me. anytime now. I'm pretty much over this. So. Yes. But I got work to do here. So I mean,

apparently I'm told by a bunch of people that I signed up for this. So I don't know whether that's true or not. And if I did, somebody lied to me. I'm here. Nevertheless, I'm going to see it through. Yeah. I'm glad you're doing what you do and stuff. And, you know, sharing your story is just, I think, the, well, sharing, let's just say sharing 1983, more specifically, because there's so much June 30th. Starting out, sharing that opens up the doorway to sharing more of your life and opening up discussion. And more importantly for me, I think it's getting other people to think, you know, because your life and the way your life has gone and all the things that you've been through, if anybody hears that story or parts of the story, they have no choice but to sit back

and think about what life is, what reality is, and either she's lying crazy or I need to reassess how I view the world around me. And I think that's some important work because I think you and I are very similar boats where we feel like, you know, I would like for people just to have more open minds and explore what's possible. You know? Absolutely. Look, when I met my husband now that we've been married for 25 years, I was a widow before, you know, and since stories in the book, I watched my late husband commit suicide, which is not something anybody wants to go through, but I survived it and actually came through it stronger than ever. But this guy I'm married to now, he didn't really know much about paranormal or UFO stuff, just the ever so slight knowledge. When I started dating him, I thought, ooh, I really like. this guy, but you know, I got a weird life. And my whole family's kind of weird, and we have weird stuff happen around us all the time. So if I'm going to have this guy in my life and he's going to spend any time with me, I really need to be up front with him and tell him about all this stuff.

So after a month or so of dating, maybe a couple months, I don't know, maybe not even that long. Maybe it was two or three dates. Anyway, I said to him, hey, look, there's something I want you to know about me and my family. Then I gave him Bud's books. I gave him, well, I gave him Bud's book intruders. And I said, read this one first. And then I gave him the book that Kathy and I wrote. And I said, then read this one. Because they're kind of companion. And I said, and I'm going to tell you right now, I'm Kathy Davis in this book. He's like, okay. So he took the books and he He left. And I didn't hear from him for a while, you know, a week or so passed.

And I, a couple weeks passed. I thought, oh, well, damn, I like that one too. But, you know, it is what it is. It wasn't meant to be. So the phone rings one day. And I answer it and it's him. And, you know, this is before we knew who was on the phone. So when I heard his voice, I was like, oh, my heart skipped a beat.

And I said, oh, I said, so did you read the books? And he goes, yes, I did. And the way he said that, I thought, oh, hell, he. here we go. I don't know. We're done. And he said, I just want to tell you, I feel like I've known you long enough now to know that you're not crazy. And I feel in my heart that you're not a wire. You're not making this stuff up on purpose. He said, so the only other alternative is that there's something to it. And I want to know more. And then bang, like six months later, we got married and we've been married for 26 years.

Yeah, you found a winner. I got me a winner. Yeah. Yeah. So, but, you know, so he did what I, what I wish the whole world would do. Just, just read it and have an open mind. Yeah. That's all.

And I can only imagine the situation you were in. I mean, being widowed and then, you know, trying to have a date. life with the way your life has been and knowing that you're going to have to cross that bridge with whoever you actually do like and would like to maybe have a long-term relationship with. I think about similar things with me and stuff with what I do, if anything, would ever happen to my wife. And I'm just like, I probably just wouldn't date. I just have no desire to, I mean.

I was about that point, you know, but I was young. See, I was only like 34, 35 years old. So, you know, I still had a lot of living left in me. I started getting lonely. And once I started feeling better, you know, and working through some things, I started feeling kind of lonely because I lived, I was living in Indy for 34 or five years. And then I moved up here to be with my late husband. We'd known each other for years. And I'd only been up here for, we'd only been married five months when he killed himself. So I didn't know anybody up here. I didn't have any friends up here. And, you know, so it was hard at first. But I made it. I made it through. And I'm. I'm good. Clearly. Clearly.

You're doing just fine. Yeah, I'm doing good. Listen, I've thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I'm glad. I have two. I would love to have you back on some time because there's just so much stuff we could get into it. And between now and the time I have you back on, I'm going to have your book and I'm going to read through it. And I'm going to have like, I'll be like, oh, crap.

There's more shows here. than I have time in the world. So I know. It's a lot. It definitely is a lot. It should be a movie or a mini series. If it was a mini series, there'd be enough material there for probably 10 seasons.

Well, you know what? I mean, I know you said you retired and stuff, but I do have some Netflix connections. Maybe we can start a TV series for yourself there. Because, listen,

I watch a lot of Netflix anymore. And the things that are on there, right up this alley like i'm telling you this could be a great tv show um yeah but uh yeah so i want to have you back on and and when i do have you back on i think it'd be fun to have that conversation of that bus ride because uh oh yeah i just i found it so interesting and and there that's a book in of itself right there oh you know i mean because and and you know i just told the story you know in the book i you don't you only have some you're gonna you're going to you're get so many words, you know, and the publisher's like, oh, it's going to cause to.

Yes. Yeah. I, I, uh, my uncle's an author. And, uh, he, he deals with that. And I also had a guy on the show years ago, Gary Wayne. And he wrote a book called the Genesis 6 conspiracy. And, uh, it was originally 1,200 pages. And they made him take out 400 pages. And so, Wow, that's a lot of, that's a whole book. Yeah. I mean, I mean, that's, that's a lot of information I had to get taken out. So speaking of him, I should get him on the show again. But we. And I'll have to send you some of my EVPs.

And then you can play in the air because I don't have, I do not have the one of the old man's voice now because that tape was something that got destroyed at my mom's house. But I do have some extremely good ones that when you hear them, you'll think, when I used to watch Ghost Hunter. and I watch, you know, that stuff on TV now, Zach Bagan's or whatever that group is called, occasionally when I can watch them. And they play their EVPs. I'm like, I would throw that in it. I would not. I'd throw that away.

That wouldn't even be a viable one. You know, I'm going for like, hi, Deb. Yes. And I've got EVPs of them saying, hi, Deb. That's amazing. That's amazing. I recently, because I'm starting a new show on my YouTube channel called Legion of Legends, where I'm going out hunting for the legends we've heard about on the show for all these years.

And I did one trip where a guy local to me took me off to this area that there's this legend of the reptilians underground. And I found this location that fit the description of what I should be looking for. So I did an investigation up there. I'm going to be going back. But I'm hiking through the woods with my guy who's like a cameraman for me. And it's nighttime, completely dark out. And we're stopping and we're talking about something on camera. And I said, you ready to go?

And he said, yeah. And he's a very strong Costa Rican accent. And so you don't mistake his voice. And he said, okay. Or no, he said, yeah, I'm ready to go. And so we start walking. And as we started walking on the microphone, just like you described, it was like there was this female voice right up against his microphone on the camera said, okay.

And I didn't hear it until I was in the studio going over the. the footage and stuff. And I was like, you got to be kidding me, because then it fit the description of what I went through later that night where I thought I heard a little girl talking off it about 50 feet away from me in the woods. And so I was just like, you got to be kidding me. So that actually, I'm talking about something that nobody's even seen yet. I haven't produced it. I have to go on YouTube yet. I've ever stopped talking about it. But, uh, listen. Yeah, that sounds cool, though. Yeah, it's going to be fun. But before we get out of here, just remind people where they, what books you have out and where they can get it so

that they can, you know, purchase your books and read through your story. Well, now, intruders has just been redone or, you know, republished through August night press. And so if you don't have a copy of intruders, because I think it's been out of print for a long time, you can now purchase it at on Amazon or any of the other booksellers. You can also purchase a copy of missing time, which is the one that he wrote that prompted me to write to him. So both of those books are being republished and brought back out to the public again after all these years through August Night Press, and you can get them on Amazon. Then my book that I wrote with my sister, it's called abducted.

The Story of Intruder's Continues. It's out of print. It's extremely difficult to find. You might be able to find it on eBay or something. you know, I had a couple, there were two or three copies here at the local library, but I got tired of donating a copy to them because I donate one and someone would check it out and never bring it back. So that one's kind of hard to find. Now, the new book is called Extraordinary Contact, Life Beyond Intruder's. And that also has the stories from abducted in it because that's my life.

And I have to, you know, I have to include that in it. So you'll get. get all those stories from abducted and all the new content and the new stuff that's happened recently and all of the changes that I've gone through and how I've gone from being terrified and feeling like I was taken against my will to feeling now like I'm an active participant in something bigger than myself, you know, in a way. that's all in there. And you can get that on Amazon. It's available on Kindle.

You can get it at any major online bookseller. And you can also buy it through. There's a link on my website. And you can come see my website and see stuff I've put up there. And you can also email me. And that's at www.debshome.com. Like I said, you can contact me. if you want to share your experiences with me, that's great.

And you can purchase the book, a link through that. And also at my publisher, which is Augustnightpress.com. Awesome. Yeah. And I'll tell everybody, I mean, that's what I did to contact her. I went to the website and shot her an email. And she got back to me, I think, within an hour. So she.

I try to get back to everybody. I do the best I can because I, you know, I just the kind of person I am. So. No, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. because sometimes I reach out to people and I don't hear back from them. And recently I reached out to a lady who has a very traumatic UFO experience herself. And she said she'd come on and we're starting to schedule. And then she just messaged me back. She said, no, no, thank you, Tony. And that was it. And I was just like, oh, I guess she doesn't like me anymore. So, but I think with her, because I was listening to her on some other interviews and she's not into any of these topics. She's talking. She's talking. about her experience, which is very dramatic, but she doesn't know much about the UFO stuff,

let alone paranormal. I think she checked out my website and saw all the things that I talk about. And she's like, this guy is a joke. I'm not going to go on his show and make a mockery out of my, out of my experience. Yeah. I know. I know. But yeah, she's probably just, I mean, I don't know her. I can't speak for anybody else. But if she's early in to her realization, she's just, there's a lot of fear. There's a lot of fear in there. And not just of whatever's happening, but of people because, you know, it's really hard to come out and talk about this stuff in public because there's so much stigma involved. And I mean, I was, even though there was only nine pages of this report that just came out, I was struck by what it didn't say and that it did not say this is not UFO.

This is not aliens or extraterrestrial. They didn't say that. They basically just said, oh, we don't know. And I'm hoping, like, I heard that pilot on that show live, UFO Declassified with Joss Gates. I watched that show. And I heard that pilot say that there was a period of time recently for about two years that they saw UFOs in the sky on the East Coast for almost daily for two years. And I know I've spoke to pilots in the past. both military and private.

And they have always been discouraged from even mentioning the things they see in the sky. They're threatened with their retirement, their pension, their jobs, you know. And I really hope that the stigma is being lifted. And these guys are going to be more comfortable coming out and speaking out now. And I'm really happy with the way the public has responded to it. I believe there will be a lot more to come. But I'm grateful to see what little I have seen. It's changed a lot in 30-some years.

So, you know, you're going to hear more about it. And hopefully the gal that you were going to talk to, she'll get to a place where she'll start to feel more comfortable with everything and talk. Because I'm telling you what, talking about it, it's cathartic in a way. It always was for me with everything that happened, even the suicide and the tornado. and everything I've been through. So talk about things is really helpful. Getting out of your head and on paper, out of your head and the words in the air and hearing it out loud changes your perspective on things.

And it helps you be able to figure out ways to live with it and be comfortable with it. And not only that, but use it to better yourself. Yeah. No, I agree. And yeah, with that lady, it's all on her time. No, that's what I told her. I said, you know, okay, if you change your mind, I'm here, the invitation will always stand. We're all on this, we're all on a path and we're all on different legs of our journey. Oh, certainly, certainly. I'm a totally different person today than

I was when I started the show almost five years ago. My mind and perspectives have changed so much. I've retreated to old thinking on some things and then I've advanced into uncharted territory of thinking on other topics that I never even thought were possible. So, yeah, it's a very interesting journey. But Deb, I really do appreciate you being here and talking with me in the audience and sharing your story. Oh, I appreciate the opportunity. I'm always grateful for anybody that's willing to listen to me talk.

I keep hearing my old man in my head when I was a kid saying, well, you shut up no one. And now look, people actually want to hear me. Wherever you're at, dad, ha, ha. I know. I'm the same way. When I was a kid, I was like not the, the cool kid or anything like that. And now people come and listen to my show. I'm just like, you guys understand. Like, I was, I was the dorky loser. Nobody wanted to hang out with kids when I was growing up. But, you know, it is what it is. It was great meeting you. And I, like I said, I thank you for the opportunity. And I'll be glad to come back and we'll talk some more. Well, that's a show. Everybody, I really hope you enjoyed it. And if you did enjoy it, please share the show with your friends. I don't care. or how you share the show, just share the show if you enjoyed it because that's the best thing you can do

to help the show grow. Just to let you guys know on Thursday, if you're a member, we have a huge, huge show coming, a sequel to another member episode that was a jaw dropper. We have Kat coming back on from discovering MK Ultra. And she starts talking about a lot of things that she's remembered since the last time we talked. And if you don't know about the whole thing, Kat on the first conversation, she actually had no idea about MK Ultra until she started telling me things about her life. And I started connecting dots and I suggested to her that she might have been part of MK Ultra. It kind of messed her up a little bit. She had to end the conversation early.

We picked it up later. But she comes back on to share more of these memories she's starting to have that are connecting dots in her life. And later in the interview about an hour in, things got weird. I'll just say that. Things got weird. And I don't know what happened during that interview. but you're going to be able to hear it on Thursday coming up here for members on the website or the app. And I hope you guys enjoy it because I'm actually fishing for comments here. I mean,

I'm kind of prepping people because I want you guys to listen to this. Like, if you're a member, make sure you listen to this. I need to know what your thoughts are on it because I'm kind of baffled at what happened. Just kind of bizarre. So enough said about that. If you're a member, check it out. Thanks a lot for being here, friends. And until next week, stay safe. Take care and remember. The truth will set you free, but first, they'll piss you off. Bye. Awaken from the forest and the depths of the abyss. This creature is a paradigm of time lost and time itself. It fears no one. It adheres to no rule that man can create. It forges its own path, and yet its path remains hidden from the world.

The sphere of his existence is beyond most comprehension as it exudes its power quietly but transcendent. It needs no one's approval to exist, but yet its very existence is sought after by many. It watches. It learns. Adapt to the ever-changing environment around it, even as the environment is wrought with corruption. It battles the corruption only when pressed or for the protection of other. like it. It is a mirage that few will ever understand. It's a cornucopia of knowledge from an era long past. It's free. It's Bigfoot. My fantasies always consisted of making it big. My soul was nothing more than a bargaining chip. Marketing is what they tell you to do and what you're willing to

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