The Confessionals - 45: Bigfoot In Broad Daylight

Episode Date: November 25, 2017

On Episode 45, Dave Groves joins The Confessionals to share a detailed, up-close Bigfoot encounter he experienced while riding ATV trails in the Allegheny National Forest in Northwestern Pennsylvania. He also discusses haunting audio recordings and an image of a white Bigfoot he may have captured on tape while camping in the same area. Website: www.theconfessionalspodcast.com Email: [e-mail] Facebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcast Twitter: @TConfessionals Tony's Twitter: @tony_merkel

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You guys hear that? Come here, check this song out. Welcome to the show, everybody. I am your host, Tony Merkel, and you are listening to The Confessionals, a proud featured show on blog talk radio.com, and a proud partner of the BombPod Media Network. If you've had an encounter or a story you'd like to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email.

My email address is The Confessionals Podcast at gmail.com. That's the confessionalspodcast at gmail.com. Or you can go to the website, the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the connection section, and you can reach me that way as well. And while you're at the website, go ahead and sign up for the free newsletter we send out every month. It's free, so there's nothing to lose. And go ahead and check out the store. We have a lot of cool things in there, t-shirts, pillows, phone cases, mugs, all the stuff with our logo on it.

Check it out at the confessionalspodcast.com. For this week's iTunes shoutouts, if you haven't heard, we are doing the iTunes shoutouts. All you have to do is go to iTunes, leave a rating and review, and you will get a shoutout on the following week's show. And this week's shoutouts is GX Gillette and Ome Sweet Home. Thanks so much for going on to iTunes leaving a rating and review, and I hope you guys continue to enjoy the show for many, many years. Now, this week's show we have Dave Groves coming on, and Dave Groves is actually a really good friend of mine. He has seen a big foot up close in broad daylight, and he comes on tonight's show to talk about his experience in the Allegheny National Forest where he saw a big foot up close. And we'll get into that right after this. Okay, tonight I have a great guest coming on. This is actually a very close friend of mine, Dave Groves. He and I connected, you know, a couple years ago when I first started my Facebook group, Pennsylvania Sasquatch Research. I brought Dave on to be an admin to my group, and he proved to just be a very useful asset to the group and even just the Bigfoot community in general. Dave, how are you doing tonight, man?

I'm doing great. How about yourself, Tony? I'm doing good, man. I'm really excited about having you on. It's just something that I've been wanting to do. I started my show because your Bigfoot encounter that you had was one of my most favorite encounters. And then when I found out that you were in PA and that you were in my group, I was like, man, this is great. And we started talking and hit it off. But your encounter is actually something I shared when I spoke at the Chautauqua Lake Bigfoot conference. I shared it with the people out there and stuff because it's such a rarity to get the detail that you saw that day. And if you could, just start walking us into what you were doing, where you were at, and how this whole thing developed for you. Okay.

Well, first of it was in the Allegheny National Forest, which is in northwestern Pennsylvania. It's very old forest, old lumber. It's probably, I think I read somewhere it's like 515,000 acres, 800 square miles of protected wilderness. And outside of the forest, it's still all wilderness. So it's not like it just stops in there's a city or something. It's pretty much country and woods up that way. And basically what I was doing up there was there's four ATV trails in the Allegheny National Forest that are titled ATV trails. There's a lot of outlaw trails, but the ones that the DCNR runs keeps the trails clean and so forth.

There's four of them, and two of them tie together and they make about an 80-mile loop or so. And that's the one I like. It's not technical, but I took a buddy up that day. He was, he's written ATVs before, but he was. wasn't like, you know, he didn't fly. He wasn't all technical on them. He was more like a farmer kind of put it around in the yard. So he was using my small ATV

and I was on my larger ATV and we headed up. It was pouring down rain that day, I remember, and he didn't have rain gear, so we had to get rain gear and we went back and then the day turned out to be really nice and first I'll go into this too is before this happened, I was not a

Sasquatch, believer, fan, enthusiast anything. I just didn't get into the conversation, whether I believe they were existed or not. I don't think they did, but, you know, it wasn't something I talked about. And so that wasn't even on my mind. But anyhow, we did the full loop. We were headed down to about four and a half, five hours into the ride. And on the way back up, coming north, back to the trailhead, we were, the day turned out to

be pretty nice. The quit raining and everything, and it was muddy. It was a lot of fun. But the sun was out. And we were headed back up. starting to get later in a day. And Paul, who's the friend that was with me, he, uh, this part of the trail coming up is a gravel road.

You can fly on it. Not supposed to, but you can fly on this part of the road. And I was on my bigger ATV. It was no. I wanted to fly. And he, you know, was picking up how the trail turned. There's a little white or yellow arrows at turn. So he kind of knew all that by this point of the ride.

I told him, I'm taking off. Just be careful. And I'll meet you up here where the trail turns off. I'll pull over. And that's what I did. I took off and I What happened was Logging Road kind of thing

And back into the forest And I just pulled off like Brought my ATV over to the left And angled it back to the drop I mean I just get my leg over the ATV really I took my help pretty much very quickly I noticed rocks were hitting the front right side of my ATV And it was the same exact spot

I recalled afterwards Which was weird because we get into that Thing you hear now about accuracy You know people say well I can I can vouch for that. These rocks were hitting. There's maybe two or three of them. It wasn't a lot of them.

But it took me one or two to actually realize rocks were even hitting because rocks fly up when you're riding. And I just stopped. And it was like, what the heck? And I remember seeing something in the right side of my peripheral vision. So I kind of turn to the right. And I was facing kind of back to the right where I come from. But these rocks were coming further back, like right off the trail where I'd come off.

And I was expecting to see somebody standing there. To be honest, I'd, I don't know what I was expecting to see, but something was throwing rocks, and to me, somebody was thrown rocks. I never considered something. And, you know, I just was like, wow, you know, I started looking over, and I don't know that I would have, you know, I've explained this part several times. And if people have heard it again, I'm going to be repetitious, but it's only way now to explain it is you're making a turn like with your vision, you can see things coming up on the right side. And I remember seeing this big dark thing, what wasn't big at the time. I might have thought it was a tree or a stump or something.

I don't know. I didn't even get to it. It was right about when I got to that area. This thing sprang straight up. I mean, Tony, this thing, it was like automatic. I'll never forget how it stood up quickly. My eyes weren't right on it when it stood up. It was coming into my view as I was swinging my head around.

And here this thing stood. Yeah, it startled me. I wasn't totally. I was like, what the? And I mean, this was probably, I'm guessing. I said 90 feet before because I did step it off later. when I found the place, and it was 30 long steps trying to make me hard. So it was probably between 70 and 90 feet.

It's not even still now I get. Yeah, it stood up, and what happened was this all lasted about 15 seconds. It wasn't like forever, but it was still pretty long period of time. And I was looking at it's weird. I was looking at its right hand, which was on its left side because it was facing me. But I was looking for rocks, thinking it was right-handed. Don't ask me why, because I think I'm right-handed. I think everything else should be, I guess, or whatever.

But as it looked over at its hand, before I got up to its head, its arm moved. Like, it's been its hand in front of it. And to me, I remember thinking, I thought whatever part of its arm was extremely lot longer than the top part. You can see the elbow. You can see where the arm, the bottom part was really long. And I've asked people on another interview I did, let me know if you've seen that. I've never heard anybody say that before, but I distinctly remember that. But it froze at that point.

It just stood there and stared at me. And I'm telling you, Tony, when I made up my vision up towards its face, I couldn't see the detail of its face, like all the lines. I could tell that, I mean, this thing was covered in black hair was probably, I could, eight foot tall maybe, and the only way I had to judge was because of the grass it was standing in. The area was like a grassy little field where I pulled into 30, maybe 10 feet, 20 feet, off from the tree line.

and that's where it was standing. And I had to drive very past this thing when I come in. And I didn't see it, or maybe I thought it was a tree. I don't know. But is it stood there, it just froze. And that's what I did. I froze. And the shock didn't hit me yet.

I'm just trying to figure out, what the heck? You know, it's a guy, it's a bear. It's none of that. It's totally obvious that it's none of that. It's 70 feet with no trees between you. And it started occurring to me. I think I think I know what this has turned out to be. And I mean, right about the time that I would think I was starting to panic a little bit,

I don't know that what I would have done if it would have lasted any longer, but it started slowly moving backwards. And it probably took two or three steps into the wood line. And I was on the ATV being gone, and it was gone. And that's when I panicked. I mean, I literally pretty much lost function. I'm freaking out thinking what's coming up behind me. Is this thing running alongside the woods now? Because the grass that it was standing in kind of comes narrower towards the trail.

And then the tree lines straight against you as you go down the trail. And I'm thinking it's parallel on me. I had no idea what it was. I knew it wasn't human. I knew it wasn't a bear. And, you know, I've been asked this, and I didn't walk up and shake its hands, so I'm not 100% sure,

but I'm 99.9. I mean, as sure as I could be, this wasn't no man in a uniform because the size of this thing, Tony. I mean, its shoulders were, you know, the height wasn't the thing to me. The width of the shoulders. I never got to see the girth.

It never turned sideways. Never took its eyes off of me as it stepped straight back. It just stepped straight back. Like, the, the width, with to the top of this thing was immense. And it's just like everybody describes. You know, I remember thinking it was leaning, whatever it was leaning forward,

because the area on top of its head turned out to be more like the conish thing that you hear about. There was more space up there. The nose was down. I could tell that. Like the nostrils were down. The arms were so long. And then when he bent his one arm, he left the other one. I don't know what it was.

I didn't see any, you know, organs like that at all. It wasn't looking for them. but I thought it was bent over it. The arms were down so long that, you know, that's another thing that made me think it was bent over. But with it step backwards, I could tell it was fully erect. It was standing up and it wasn't bent over. This thing just didn't make sense to me. I kind of, the strange thing people were asking me all the time there, you know, didn't you, weren't you freaking?

I had a, well, I should be saying this. I don't, not supposed to have them up there, but I had. a weapon in a camera in my fender bag and neither one of them occurred to me to grab it people asked that why are you to go to put you don't even think of that i mean you have to understand one second i'm not a believer i'm not a follow i'm not anything with saskwatch and the next second i have no choice i mean it started coming into focus to me what i was looking at after everything else you know i'm going to have a hunter uh i used to be i used to hunt a lot and uh since that year i've i didn't go deer hunting that year i haven't hunted since and it's not because i'm afraid of the woods or anything i

still go out Sasquotching. I'm out at night. I camp. I just don't know what it is. I just don't take a gun in the woods with me

anymore. But yeah, so I'm familiar with Bear. I've seen Bear. You know, it's obvious what you're looking at. It wasn't something running through the woods

at a long distance. It wasn't something that crossed the car in front of me in the middle of night of dark. I mean, why this thing showed itself

to me, you know, now that I've started researching and learning about this and hearing how timid these things are and don't want to be seeing, you know, why it showed itself to me. I'll never know the answer to that. It's just, you know, one of those things that, I don't know

if it's perfect timing, you know, some people have other answers. Like, maybe it was perfect timing and maybe there were young ones. You know, when people were telling me that, I'm like, young ones, there's more than one. I didn't know anything about these, you know, like, what are you talking about? There's more than one. And, yeah, so, you know, I'll never know. I can only guess why this thing did what it did, but, you know, it didn't have to throw the rocks. It didn't have to show itself to me. I mean, maybe it thought it was busted when I started turning, and I was looking pretty much in its direction when it stood up. But yeah, this thing, as far as the description of this, it was all black, black hair, very dark black. This wasn't light. I remember when I first

saw it pop up instantly, I remember not seeing any other colors but black, even the face. The face was black, but I could tell that it wasn't the same, like the hair, the texture is the rest of its body. So I assume that it was black skin. But it was the same color, the same tone of black. It wasn't any lighter. It wasn't, I never saw any whites in the eyes. I remember the eyes were very deep, dark black, very black.

And that I'll never forget. But it wasn't like the mouth stayed shut. It never made a noise that I could hear. I never smelled anything like people say. None of that stuff. This thing kept its mouth. I remember its lips going all the way across its face. They were kind of pursed a little bit.

and as we stared at each other, it just was like, to me, at the time, I got to be honest, at the time that this was all happening, it was almost a calming encounter. I mean, it was a little panic involved

as soon as it moved, a lot of panic, actually, but I had no fear, never thought that I needed a gun for it, not for those few seconds I didn't, until it all started coming into focus what this might be. And, you know,

I got to be honest, like, werewolf and stuff, that stuff always scared me as a kid. This didn't look, anything like that. And it didn't freak me out like that. This thing was actually, and I got to say it, it was actually beautiful creature. I, you know, Sybil Irwin actually did an art piece for me or witness recreation for those that

I've seen it. She pretty much nailed it. I mean, it didn't have the groomed hair like the picture shows, but speaking of that when she was asking me about it, how it was laying matted. And, you know, I brought up that it was raining that morning for a reason because this thing's hair wasn't even matted and dirty. I remember the way what I used with her was it had a groomed look to it. So that's why, you know, her recreation has the groomed look to the hair. But it wasn't matted, muddy, anything. It actually kind of had a little shine to it.

You know, I first thought it was probably the water, a liquid from plants and trees that it was coming through, but or the rain. I mean, it had rain for a couple hours at this point. But I don't know. It's just after the fact surprised me that, you know, this thing, I've seen deer in the rain and sometimes they get pretty dirty and muddy and nasty. and this thing had none of that. And again, people ask about, you sure it wasn't a guy in a costume or something.

And, you know, I saw the fingers move. When it bent its arm, you know, I don't know how the same of the arm extension. I don't know that stuff. But this thing was a full from head to toe at the end of its fingers. So, you know, it had to be a pretty abnormal person if it was somebody pulling a joke. And in this forest, there's not cabins there. This isn't a place where you would just pull off and wait for somebody. This wasn't a pullover where I pulled over.

I just happened to pull over to wait for my buddy there. So, you know, who would be standing up? And why would they do that just in a costume when most people on ATVs are carrying weapons from my experience? You know, all those things I've thought. And it just, I can go back over to 100 million times. I don't know the answers to any of the stuff. And it just really, I jump full force into the research after that. I just took me a couple years to talk about it.

But, yeah, once you, you know, when people, I never forget feeling that, people are exactly correct when they describe these. You can tell almost the people that have had a real close to the encounter, just what they say and what they, you know, I remember here on TV, like the first couple people that I thought, I didn't know anything or who these people were, but as I started what's in programs, I remember seeing Todd Niece and Derek Randall's in there

when they were talking about their encounters. I was like, these guys actually had encountered. I could tell the exact same words were coming out of their mouth. And I'll never forget it. It's like something, words, like, and I remember saying it too, is, you know, I can't take that back. Once you see that, you can't forget that. You can never take that back. This is something that's not supposed to exist. You know, I've been in the Navy and been in some pretty crappy situations in a boat unit

with the teams and there, you know, there's some scary situations involved, but you expect that. You expect that. You expect that. You're going to askwatch in the woods or something scary, whatever it was. It's not supposed to be on this earth. You know, it's just, it's a fear. I mean, once it started sinking in and I took off on that quad, it's a fear when you start accepting it that's like, I don't know the right word for it. It's just really deep. And it's, I don't even know fear is the right word. It just, it shocks your system. And that's exactly what happened in the detail.

I never saw the feet. This thing was standing in. The grasses there were anywhere from a foot to two and a half foot tall or so, depending on what part it was standing. And the grasses came up to right below its knees, halfway up to its knees, like, guess. So, you know, I never got to see below that part of it. And again, it didn't lift its feet up very high that I could tell it when it was stepping backward. I just wanted to get out of there when it started moving. So I wasn't always staring at much there except for I know it didn't turn around. That was bizarre to me. This thing was staring me down. And it wasn't a mean stare. It was like a,

you know, I'll say it, I guess. It was like I just felt that. It's like this thing knows I'm not going to hurt it. And I'm feeling like it's not going to hurt me. And, you know, I'm If I would have lasted longer, if I'd have reached from my camera, maybe started realizing what was going on. I don't know what would have happened. I'm glad I didn't. As all I could say, people say that. Why didn't you know? I just froze.

We're staring at each other and, you know, it kind of looked at me the same way. Like, what are you doing here? And that's the encounter pretty much. I mean, it changed my life. I can tell you that. Like I said, I don't hunt anymore. But spirituality, it just changed me spiritually. I don't even know why.

It just, you know, I've gotten different about the woods, about nature. You know, I dove into the Bigfoot thing, big time. I mean, I collect books and read them now. It's just, God, my house almost looks like a museum now with Bigfoot stuff. It's kind of funny, but, you know, it's, I call myself a Bigfoot nerd now. And it's, you know, it wasn't because I saw the Patterson Gimlin film. And I did see that when I was a kid. I remember that, but it never really stuck with me.

It wasn't because of that or any movie that got me into it. It was because of that encounter. And, you know, once you see one, you can't give it back. It's not something you can, you know, I hear people say they've shut themselves off. They don't talk about it and try to forget. I don't know how they can do that. I don't know if they actually do forget about these things until something starts it back up. Because it's such a, I just don't know.

You know, the big thing now is this was in 2000 ago. It was around June, I think it was right when the trail had opened up. And it's right after the first holiday there, Labor Day Memorial Day. I get them backwards. but in about the second week of June. And, you know, so that was what, seven years ago, seven and a half years ago. And I just still can't figure out why the things, as much as you can learn in the books and learn from other people, there's no answer why these things.

You know, I've had people that are so-called experts say they don't do that, you know. They didn't send this one to memo. I'll tell you that because this is exactly what it did. I won't add nothing or take anything away from this encounter because it's real. it down. I remember when I was probably within a week after it happened because it was just something so unusual that, you know, I tried to write down the details of it. I still have that, by the way, it's part of my encounter that's on the BFRO. Most of that is from within weeks of what when I saw that. And then I've added detail about the forest and stuff like that. But I won't add or take away from the detail when I saw it because that's the way it was. I, you know, it just, this thing's amazing. And we have them here. And we have them here. And we have. I mean, Pennsylvania of all places. Yeah. You know, I don't know how many.

Nobody does, but my God, it's just, it's just strange not believing in them, and then all of a sudden you'll have a choice the next second. And what that does to your body, Tony, and your mind is just, you know, it'll shake you up. It shook me up. I mean, I've seen some things, you know, this is when I will never forget. Yeah, and that's the thing. I mean, I believe in Bigfoot because I choose to believe in Bigfoot. I have been interested in Bigfoot, and my biggest thing for believing in Bigfoot is because of people like you sharing your stories. At some point, you got to say not everybody is lying or just completely stupid and misidentifying bears.

And so for me, I had a choice. I chose to believe in Bigfoot. There is no choice involved when you see something like that. There is no question in your mind what you saw because it was daytime. You know exactly what you saw. So it's pretty fascinating. When you saw this thing shoot up, so when you were scanning, the landscape and what you, before you even had a chance to think it was a, you know, a tree stump,

you saw it shoot up. When you saw this thing shoot up, was it like, I know you've described it like it was very fast. Was it unnaturally fast? Or do you think this, what do you think Bigfoot is when it comes to those kind of things? Do you think it's something more just a natural creature? Or do you think they could have some kind of supernatural propensities? And would you describe the way it shot up that way? Well, actually, yeah, I wasn't staring right at it when it shot up. It's the weirdest thing. Like I was saying, I had the peripheral vision when you're turning.

You know, I saw something dark there. I probably would I look past it if it didn't move and thought it was a log? Maybe. I drove, had to come right past it on the trail, so I must have thought that at the time. But I never got right to it, like staring directly at it. It sprang up to me unnaturally fast. Like, there was no effort. You know, and I've described it before, like, you know, like a,

a target on the range, one of the pop-up targets that are like real fast, like, point. I mean, it's just like was there, you know. I know it was there, something was there, whether it was a log or a tree or not. It wasn't like it came out of nowhere and just appeared. But I don't know if it was crowds laying down. I never got to really look at it, but in whatever position it was in, it was up instantly. And as far as what I think they are, you know, there's such a big argument about that. God, I mean, personally, what I was looking at that day was an animal.

It was a blood, a flesh and blood creature, in my opinion, that it didn't go, you know, through a portal and disappear. It went into the trees and disappeared pretty much. In my research, you know, I'm learning a lot about hair. I've actually got some hair samples from Paul Freeman's, you know, son Michael sent me some of the hair samples that his dad had put through a lab in the microscopic pictures and stuff. And it's fascinating because some of them look clear, like you can almost see through them. Some have a green, you know, and I think that's, you know, I think that's, part of their camo. So to me, what they are, and it's only my guess. I mean, that's just my opinion only, is I believe they're a creature, but I believe they have abilities beyond what humans do,

or maybe some abilities that we used to have that we don't have any longer. We've gotten so domesticated. You know, I think the camouflage, their ability, I've heard the word cloaking before, you know, whether that's real or not, and I'm not going to doubt anybody. I won't doubt anybody's story that has one because I would have never believed my story until it happened. to me. So, you know, if it cloaked, yeah, okay, then that's what it did. But to me, it's the hair that, maybe the shininess of it, the reflection, whatever, and just a little turn can maybe change that reflection of the light, you know,

kind of blends in with where it's at. You know, it's kind of weird to me. If some of the hair is see-through and there's no center, you know, it's just weird when you look at the hairs under a microscope. It really makes you think, okay, it has hair. People say they've shot these things. I mean, we never have the body, but, you know, so to me, they're animal. I don't know.

I just, but I can't tell somebody that thinks otherwise and has visual evidence otherwise. I mean, I've seen some other weird things in the wood since then. And they started something, and I can't explain, especially at night with the lights, the laser eyes. I've seen that. I don't know what that is. I don't know. I don't have a clue how to begin on my scientist. And, you know, I just know it's there.

and I know that they're very real. The guy that I researched, started researching with who got a hold of me. Doug Retzer, he lives up 20 miles probably west of, a 20 miles west where I had my encounter. He contacted me when I first started talking about it online, and he heard my encounter and said, I need somebody else to help me research one of my areas. He's been chased out of there by one, and he's had multiple encounters in there. He would never go back in that area alone again. And so I instantly, oh, yeah,

I'll come up. I want to learn about these things. I actually wanted to go with the area. You have to have the, you know, the ATV needs to be registered and insured. And so to go in with somebody that's an ATV enthusiast and a Sasquatch, it's hard to find that. And I didn't want to go in and scare something out of there, not knowing anything. So I wanted to take the time to research. And this just happened perfectly. Ben contact me and said, come up in my area and research. And it's about every other week we were going up there. And seeing some pretty bizarre things.

I mean, you know, like people ask, where did those tracks go? You know, they're following a track line and they disappear. You know, to me, I have to look at it. You know, it doesn't mean they just disappeared. You know, what about stepping backwards in their tracks and jumping off trail? What about hitting rocks? Jump on. I mean, there could be other explanations.

I don't know if people have looked at that, you know. I kind of believe some of the people that say they hide their, they're for some reason might hide their tracks. They know that they leave them. maybe not from humans, from game, other game. You know, they're probably hunters. So, you know, they camouflage well, and they know how to stock and sit still and all that stuff. So I think they're animals,

but I think they have a lot of abilities, learned abilities. And then you get the side of it that the DNA study, which I do support the genome project. I know that's a controversial subject. but being at the borough conference when they presented the DNA evidence, they plightus and, oh my God, it was the intense, what they come up with. And, you know, I understand why people were against her study because she did one on her own in her lab and blah, blah, blah, blah. But this one was over 12 independent labs.

And, you know, it was a blind test. She didn't tell them what they were looking for. They were to tell her. And they all came back with the same thing. And when you hear those results, it's like, yeah, there's a little bit more to it. So, you know, it kind of answers some of those questions. Why would the government be hiding this and that? Well, if it's tied to that DNA results, then part of the DNA results were that it had to have been ordered.

And we didn't order DNA hundreds of thousands of years ago when the Indians started talking about these things. So what did? So you start taking that line of thought, you know, that maybe that's a reason why the government doesn't want us to know. They don't even want us to go in that direction. And so I kind of leave my mind open, to be honest. I think once you close your mind, you're going to miss evidence. You're going to miss something. I don't want to think these things are the boogeyman or it could have been.

It just wasn't that day. And I want to think that there's been a portal, but then you got Dr. Johnson and, you know, who knows what's happening there, but he has a whole thing going on there with portals. And he has witnesses that go in there with them and they're seeing things. So, you know, are we talking about different things other than Sasquatch? Who knows? I just didn't know what treats or look like if I would have had a high power I traded it.

You'd have to have a pretty heavy duty weapon to penetrate what I saw, though. But if you could have, I think it would have bled. That's just my opinion. White showed itself and didn't come after me. That just tells me they're not totally aggressive. Or maybe it wasn't at some area. Maybe it was, you know, out for a stroll. Who knows?

We just ran into each other. So it wasn't a big threat. I don't know. But yeah, back to that question. Tony. I do think that they're an animal. Again, I keep my mind open. There's just, there's evidence of points in some other directions, but it's not physical yet. So, right. And, uh, you know, while I got you on here and stuff, we should talk about some other things because I know you've had some other experiences and stories you'd like to share that happened out in the woods. So let's get

into those when we come back after the break. We'll be right back, everybody. Okay, we're back. And Dave, uh, I know you mentioned about Doug earlier. And, uh, I know you mentioned about Doug earlier. And how you guys researched together and things like that. I want you to go into some of the things that you uncover doing that because in particular, the photo that we have on the group page, I talked about it at the conference when I was up there speaking. You know, most people that know me from the Bigfoot world,

they do know that I'm very much fascinated with the Pennsylvania White Bigfoot. And we have that great video of the white bigfoot in Carbondale. And then my guy who I go out with a lot when I can, Don Kurtz, he has seen a white big foot in Charlottlesville, Pennsylvania. And that's Charlottlesville, Pennsylvania is southeastern PA. The Carbondale Bigfoot, White Bigfoot is in northeast PA. And then you have a picture of something that looks like. a white big foot and that was in Western PA. Would you go into that little bit? Northwestern.

Again, it was up in an area that I was researching with Doug. And I'm going a little bit of that a couple weekends in a row. I couldn't go up there on a weeknight, you know, because of work and stuff. So it wasn't like one of those places I could hit every day. But Doug and I would plan. We'd go in. What we would do is I like to make a story out of the evidence, like try to get on footprints, look at different things, and not just be random, you know, like you could see things happening in the forest. The idea in this area that Doug had told me was, when you first set the area up, when you get out of your vehicle, you actually cross, it's a highway, it's a two-lane highway, but it's a highway, but it's not the middle of nowhere. This

isn't like near people, too close to people. And you go down into this little hollow valley, like it's a valley, but steep, they're not mountains like out west or something type of mountains, but they're very steep on both sides, maybe 100 yards, 200 yards wide in the valley. and there's little top streams that run through this place. And we walk up through there and walk up to the left side, come up around the left side up on the hill. But Doug's always told me he thought there were watchers or nest or something up on the right side as you walk in.

And that's where he was chased out of on that side. And we've heard some weird noises up on that side. So I started believing in what he was saying. And one day what we were finding was some pretty odd stuff, And back to sitting the story up, Doug found this area interesting. He used to trout's fish in it. And then he noticed him and his body years ago. There was these pattern of holes in the ground, like small holes, like stick holes.

And he was trying to figure it out. And here it just appeared to him like he started looking at the trees. And he started noticing this thing was getting, it's a pine forest, mostly pine in the very front of it. But it started getting thicker and thicker over the years, ground plunder. And these trees weren't pine trees. They were like being brought in or something. And it occurred to him that some of these trees were being coming down over the hill when he followed them. Maybe they were being carried in and sat down.

And where all the branches were were sticking into the ground. It was kind of weird. But when he said that, I thought it was weird. But it started making sense. And I started looking at some of these trees in there. We actually found some bizarre stuff. A giant maple branch, like a branch of a maple tree with green leaves on it. And, you know, different branches, like one of the branches where it sprouts off in all directions.

and it was pretty big. We found it in the same area, which we don't, didn't usually do. We were trying it one time. I can get to that story too later, but we heard a tree go over, so we decided to go that direction. Trees fall in the woods.

You know, we're not thinking anything, trying not to think anything. We walked that direction, and on the way to it, we crossed the trail, it's not a way trail, but it's the path that we come in and out of. We try to stay consistent.

And here's this dawn, and there's no maple trees in this forest. And it's things live, and where one, you know, he made a comment like, I wonder if something was trying to camouflage itself with that, and it just got tired of it, pushed a tree over. Now, you start thinking that, like, I have no idea of that scenario,

but it could have very well been. We found the tree that was pushed over, and yeah, it was rotted a little bit. It probably fell over in its own, who knows. But it just was bizarre to find that stuff. So we started seeing that stuff in here. So what happened was one day we went in, to get back to this picture that was taken.

We went in, and we found a couple of tracks, and these tracks were probably 16 inches, long, stepped in. We found them. It was very hard to see the one. Doug actually found the one. Then I found one, and then he had found a couple others with another friend that started heading in the direction like down towards the creek. So that's the way these ones were. So we started going in that direction. And down towards a little, it's not extremes, where the steep hill is, it's a rock hill that you can't climb. You might be able to come up from behind, but, you know, I'm not taking out. The rope in this beyond my days. I'm not going to do somehow now. But

as we were walking over there, following it looked like one of these tracks where he jumped across to get the other side of the creek. And we're only talking 10 foot. This isn't like a wide creek. It's a little trout stream. And it's on an angle downwards,

and it looked like something slid. And you could see the toes dug in, like to stop it. And there was five toes. You could feel them. It was very obvious. It was just like a long slide. And that's what it looked like to me.

And Doug pointed out the smack marks we were seen on these trees. About every fifth tree or so, third, that we were following the direction of those prints, there were the marks in these trees about six foot high that looked like somebody shoved a rock into. And I say that because it doesn't look like somebody who was banging with a stick or wood because we weren't finding splinters in there.

It just looked like somebody, it hit them very hard with something hard. And, you know, there were different sides of the tree, mostly the one side. But so we don't know if something put that together thinking maybe hunting, maybe they were calling, who knows, but in my mind I was thinking that. pictures of saplings along the creek that were bowed like the normal bow that people see, but they were bowed the opposite direction that the water was running. So I'm thinking if the water came up, they would force them to bend. They would have bent the other direction, probably on the bank.

And so I was taking pictures of those. We heard some, I thought they were deer at the time up on that hill. And that was where Doug said, that's where he hears weird noises and birds, like these weird bird calls coming from. And we didn't see anything, though. And I was just thinking bear, maybe deer, or deer. or maybe a bear or something with our eyes. You know, I never look at pictures.

Tony, I'm not one of these guys to pull faces out of pictures, but it was the weirdest thing, and it was perfect timing. Doug calls me, oh, it was six months, two a year later, said, Dave, I took another buddy in here. We're standing in almost that exact same spot, or he was. And this guy wasn't the big Sasquatch fanatic like I was. He just went in there with Doug because he wouldn't go in there by himself. And they separated.

The guy went up maybe 50 yards further. from Doug and he come running back to Doug and said, we got to get out of here and Doug said, why? He said, this guy was freaking up. He said, if they wanted us, there's nothing we could do. And Doug's like, what are you talking about? He said something huge and big and white ran up over this hill. And he said, it was on two legs.

He said, and I know this thing was used. And the way Doug was explaining, this guy was freaked out. So Doug said he was laughing at him and he took him out of the woods. He knew he was in there. He told Doug look for Sasquot sign and maybe get lucky. And here he got lucky and panicked. But anyhow, he was, he, He told me about that.

And I remember taking those pictures along that creek and those bow trees. And I, for the life of me, still don't know why I looked at these pictures again because I never do this. But I actually took the pictures while they were on the computer with a magnifying glass. And I just started looking at them. And I noticed this anomaly that was up on, almost on top of the hill. You can't tell from the picture. Like, if I would describe it, you wouldn't know what the background is. They're not all trees from the ground level up.

just on the other, like the creek, you could see the creek stream on this picture, and it turns sharply to the left. Right on the other side of that stream, it starts on this rock wall, this cliff going up, and trees are growing out of it. And it's really thick. And there's this anomaly, and it's white. And I'm like, oh, God. So I started zooming in until the picture started pixelating, like with the trees, with the branches. And I would only go so far with it. But what I was seeing was a, you saw the picture.

but it really looks like a face and shoulders. I mean, it looks just like that Pennsylvania, like Bigfoot's from Carbondale. And I sent the picture. I got on line and asked somebody, you know, I didn't want to show the pitcher or a claim that was a Sasquatch or anything. I think it was Big Sputony from the UK plays around with, you know,

the pictures and video and stuff. And he said, let me take a look at it. And he analyzed it. Send it the thing back, broken up in different pictures. Where he could zoom in. and it looks like the thing's holding on.

You can see the shoulder and like an arm, and he outlined it, where it's leaning over forward with its arm around the front of the tree holding on that way to maybe get a better look or maybe because it was on that hillside and it was so steep, it was just holding on. And then he zoomed into the eyes just to show that those big black areas that were eyes weren't sunglasses. You could actually see like an eye, you know,

whether the software pixelated, I don't know, but I thought he did really good job. So anyhow, it's just kind of weird that this guy saw a white thing. You know, sure looked like a white Sasquots to me, and you saw it, and since then I put it out online and I've asked people's opinion of it. I'll never know, but actually sent it to M.K. Davis, and he never got back to me. We talked about it, but he's more into the video than pitchers, so, you know, you can't do much with one pitcher like he came with a video. So he didn't want to go on record with anything. but yeah, that picture was, you know, and I still think there's something up on that hill.

I've looked at Google Earth and saw there's an access behind it, maybe a mile up, but I'd like to get a couple people. You know, that'd be something to plan the point we plan. The more of getting no other people, and Doug's okay with this, I'm bringing people in or volunteering people in his area, you know, set a couple people down where that picture was taken from, just to hang out down there, a couple people further up. the guy saw the thing run up over the hill because at that point where he was at, the whole sort of kind of angles where you can walk up to a certain area of it and then it goes straight up.

But it's kind of the bottom part of that hill over there. And then two or three people come in from behind and be up on top and just, you know, I think we'd have everything covered at that point. And somebody should see something or I'd be curious to see what's up on top. But until I do that, I've always wanted somebody to go up there and try to set themselves there where, where that picture was and see what they would look like. But it's not as easy set as done when you know this hillside and how steep and rocky and this ugly it is. It's not.

And being so far away, like I said, it's not like I can get up there every day. We just haven't done that. You know, the strange thing about that is the last time I was in the woods with Doug, I, you know, well, you know what happened to me this last year, lost my fiancé moved. And we just haven't had time to get together for personal reasons enough. So we finally got together.

It was in the spring once, and we were walking towards that area. And there's a spot 50 feet maybe from it that you can see that trees on top of that hill. And one tree was just swinging back and forth. So Doug and I ran over, started taking pictures. I can't see anything up there through them thick trees in the spring. And, you know, we couldn't tell what it was. But the bizarre thing at the end of the day was on our way. Well, it wasn't even at the end of the day.

It was probably two hours later. We were still on her way into the woods, just taking our time. We were down at the spot where the guys saw that white one, where the hillside comes down, and a black bear, you know, I stopped to take off my backpack to grab a sandwich or an apple or something. I had water. I can't remember, but right in front of me, it was straight across from me. I saw something dark stand up on two legs, and I'm like, here we go, here we got. My heart started beating Tony.

I was thinking, you know, here we go, here we go. And when I looked up, it didn't drop back down to Fords, and it was a black bear, and it actually had two cubs with it, which we didn't know it. It was headed towards that direction, but it never did go up on the first. top of that hill. It crossed the trail where we come in. We looked down and watched it cross. So, you know, was that tree bouncing around up there because of a black, well, it was, it was coming from that direction, it was headed towards it when we saw the bear. So I don't know. It's just funny that one tree up there was shaken. I really wish we could have got up there

to see what was up there. But I really am buying into what Doug was telling me that, you know, he believes in the watchers thing, where they have watches in these woods, and they know you're in there by the time you get there, if they're in that area that day. And I'll be honest, you can feel it in the back of your neck, and in your gut tells you there's something going on here. And maybe three times that I've been up there, I felt nothing. So, you know, I certainly don't think it's a place to Sasquatch are living, but I think it's a place they're traveling through.

And they're probably not as aggressive there because they're just traveling through it. And while they are, maybe fishing or whatever they're doing, And I believe that. We can't get in there without hearing noises and whistles and different things. And then from what we've seen on that hill now, it's just more and more pointing that way to me. Yeah, I absolutely agree with you guys with the whole watcher thing. I think somebody, I heard somebody talk about that before and they called it a sentinel. I don't know if that's the right word or not.

I might have just butcher that. But anyways, I definitely agree with that because it only makes sense if these things are as secluded as they are. they would have somebody or something or one of them on the lookout for, you know, possible intruders and things like that. I mean, you and I are both of the same mindset that these things, because they've been so secluded and they haven't been officially documented, they are incredibly smart. They have to be. They have to be incredibly smart in order to remain so undiscovered to this point. And if you're that smart, then to me, it only makes sense that you would have lookouts.

So definitely, absolutely. Yeah, I totally believe that. You walk into an area where they happen to be. You're already being watched. So why sneak around in Camo and all that stuff? That looks suspicious to them, I think. Be yourself. I mean, more of these sightings happen when they're doing something that you're just doing,

like me ride my ATV. I wasn't out looking for anything. And, you know, a lot of people's encounters seem to come that way. When they're out, camera gear and guns and, you know, in Cammo, they usually don't see much. So I don't know. That's that's sort of what I lead to. And Doug and I, when we do go in, try to just go in ourselves, you know, just be ourselves, talk, not loud, because we don't want to kick deer out of there, but just be ourselves, try to be happy and try to make it, you know, give us more of a chance for an encounter. Yeah. You know, I think these things are curious,

too. They'll give you that shot maybe, you know, while they're trying to look at you. But who knows, it's fascinating to me. You know, I can't believe I'm even talking like this, Because before Mike Conner, I would have never, you know, in the things you learn, you know, like, I got to say this, Tony, it's, I hear these arguments online and elsewhere, even at conferences, they're not arguments, just conversations, but you could tell, like, even believers that haven't seen one are skeptics to me. I don't think they're fully believing that the creature they ask. Like, if somebody takes a picture of what they thought was one, or, you know, to them, they saw one. But by the time they got their camera, what their video shows, their camera isn't much of nothing.

But people would question it and are like, oh, that's nothing, you know, whatever. You know, they question it like they don't believe that you have to prove it to them. And I understand that. But once you've seen one, you know they exist, it's a different way of thinking to me. It's like I know they exist. They have to leave evidence. You know, and I don't believe everything that everybody tells me. I can't.

You can't. But I don't throw a lot of things away either. You know, it's kind of like, you know, there's a reason why people think they're seeing, well, you know, some might watch too much TV or whatever. I want to be too hopeful to see it. But you know where I'm going with that. It's just, I don't know. It's a different way of thinking about it after you've seen what you've seen and pretty much know the exist, the evidence has to be there. They're out there. That they have to be super intelligent

because we haven't, you know, found them yet. I couldn't agree with you more. And, you know, I'll tell you what, Dave, when you do decide to get out there to research that hill and maybe even get somebody up there, I would love to be part of that crew. I will drive out. And you will be, I don't care when it is, what time of year it is, I'm there. Because when I saw that picture, All I wanted to do was climb that hill. And I don't know if you saw my most recent video I put out just, I think, a week or two ago. I actually, on my way up to Chautauqua Lake, Bigfoot Conference, me and my brother, Jack, stopped off in the Allegheny National Forest because I was given coordinates to a cave that had a supposedly fossilized footprint that was 19 inches long. And I was like, holy crap.

So, yeah, I wanted to get out there and I climbed that hill. and that hill was a beast, man. I'll tell you, that hill kicked my butt. But I absolutely would love to be out there with you guys. Oh, yeah, I've got together for this, you know, and you know them all pretty much, a couple friends from Ohio and yourself, of course. And, you know, maybe, I don't know, five to six, seven people to cover the whole area. All good-hearted, good-intentioned people that are not to kill us anything.

And, you know, hopefully, if nothing else, we get to at least see. what the heck's up on top of that hill. Yeah. That's my, I really want to know. It's funny because I did an interview with Ed Brown, and that's all he would say, every time I say,

I want to know what's on that hill. It's like, yeah, I do too now. I just, you know, but my roping days are over and I'm not going to go up, but I'm thinking I'm coming in behind it. It's probably the best way to do it.

You know, take a little bit of a walk, but still, that's not a bad, I walk all day if I have to. You know, the thing about this area, too, is,

and I haven't been down this far, but I don't know, it's a mile away or something. Doug says there's all these caves, rock caves and stuff. I don't want to say with the name of the places because it'll kind of give it away, but it has a name. But I have not made it to the caves. My thought, and it's just my thought, you know, is I believe in the home area part of research,

and I think I've heard it from Steve Kalls who was the one in their home area, just like humans. We go to certain places, like we go to the post office, we go to the store. Those are, you know, public areas. We have our private areas like our home and nursing and stuff, and that's where we're more aggressive, just probably like them. And my thought would be that would be, you know, their home area, their personal area is probably deeper in, you know, where people usually don't go or in these caves or in these rocks

and whether I'd want to go there or not, because that's what the danger would probably happen. But if you run into them and you're not endangering their young ones in their public areas, they feel less threatened. You know what I mean? I honestly believe that public area. And further in, maybe where those caves, or I don't know, that might be where

if you're running to that place, you might hit the jackpot, but, you know, do you come out alive? Who knows? I'll volunteer to go in first. Yeah. I'm known for my... Well, that's at the GPS, and when a GPS stops, we'll know what happened.

Yeah. I'm known for disregarding my own life half the time when I'm out there. You can ask Don Kurtz about that. Oh, man. Do you believe it, like, do you stop if your gut tells you to stop and not go any further?

Yeah, I mean, if my gut tells me to, but the problem is a lot of times I don't really pay attention to that gut feeling half the time. A lot of times I get really excited and I just am like, okay, I'm here to see this thing, so I'm going to go see it now and

if it's going to take my head off well, I lived a good life and you know, okay, see you guys later. You know? Yeah, I kind of follow my... And maybe not for Sasquatch reasons, but yeah, I don't know, maybe being too cautious, but... No, I don't think that you can be too cautious,

out there. I just, Don experienced it firsthand. There is this one time we were on the side of the Appalachian Mountain. And I'm looking through the binoculars. And because he saw a white big foot on that very mountain, I was, I had white big foot on the brain. And, uh, I'm looking through the binoculars and I see something, what looked really big and white moved from left to right. And I was like, holy crap, it's here. You know? I, I was like, pumped. And my, my, my, my, first reaction is I didn't even take the binoculars off my face. I just started walking forward trying to follow it and I'm stumbling over things. And I look back and Don's still standing there. It's like, dude, what are you doing? And I was like, and I look at it closer and stuff. And I'm thinking,

oh, you know what? It was just, it was like some kind of like weird bushes that looked white up close and they were moving from the wind or something. But in the binoculars, it looked really big. And it was moving fast. I was like, oh, my God, it's here, you know? Yeah, you get the white, big foot on the brain. Yeah, man. So let's just take a break right now, and when we come back, we'll get back into our conversation about White Bigfoot and a bunch of other stuff, all right? We'll be right back after this. Okay, we're back from the break.

And, Dave, why don't you just pick up where you left off there in the conversation we were having during the break where you were talking about other people making note of the White Bigfoot and other areas of PA? Strange thing, after I talked about the White Bigfoot, some guy had mentioned, I don't even know who I can't remember who was, said there's supposedly been a White Bigfoot in that part down towards Butler County, which is a county below that. that people have been research and are taking note of. I can't remember the right words she used, but I thought that was kind of weird. This would probably be a more northern territory then. Then a person that does a lot of research in our area of Brian that keeps a lot of data and everything.

He's got a lot of information on White Bigfoot. And I would like to follow up. He said, I'm welcome to his data if I want. I sort of follow up on that one because that's interesting. I mean, you know, I truly believe that Carbondale, White Bigfoot was really good. I've seen movement. I've seen that when it stood up, but they're just, it's unnatural the way they move.

And the way I think turned, like, so quick and weird in that video, just to me was pretty telling. But, yeah, so, you know, what do you think they are? What do you think the white is? Old, just a different color? Yeah, well, here's the thing. I, when I first heard about the white Bigfoot, when I first entered the Bigfoot community, I heard about that, and I didn't see the video. And I was thinking, there's no.

way a white bigfoot could be running around out there without being detected by tons of people. And then I saw the video and I was like, that looks really real. And the more I started looking into it and the more I started, you know, trying to understand Bigfoot in general and things like that, I came to two conclusions. One, it has to, it's either an old Bigfoot because just like, you know, men, when they go gray or white-haired, maybe it's just an old Bigfoot. I don't know. But also, maybe it is an albino bigfoot, you know, because if they are, I think I was talking to, I think I was talking to Jamie King about this, I believe it's Jamie King. And he brought that up to me about the white albino bigfoot. And I, he, I think he said that albinoism is very prevalent in incest.

So basically, he's basically saying that albinoism is prevalent when there's incest involved. And so he suggested that maybe that because, these things, you know, living clans and maybe clans are spread out further than, you know, we would think there was some kind of incest going on, you know, maybe not all the time, but at times there's incest going on and therefore albinomism is an issue. And I thought that was kind of interesting, you know, because I never really thought about that. And, you know, who knows? I mean, that's the thing with this whole topic, we all sit around and we theorize about what is what. And nobody really has an answer. So everybody's answers that they do give are all valid until, you know, somebody

proves otherwise. Oh, exactly. Yep. Isn't in a certain evidence, then you're just missing it because nobody has one of these, you know, in their backyard, fall on it, living with it. Some people claim, yeah, they have plans that they follow. I mean, you know, if they do, how close do they get to it? Well, I don't know. It's still, that'd be awesome. But, you know, who knows, I think everything's valid that people that you get a sense of telling the truth you know what they say is is valid to me I mean I wouldn't ever believe this this was able to happen and like I said told what happened to me and it's like I can't you know 50 some years old and uh it took that long to finally open my mind and say these people have been telling the truth for a long time you know what I mean and missed all

that if I started researching this when I was younger who knows what I defined when I was healthier, younger, you know, not that I'm totally not healthy, but, you know,

when I had more of a daredevil, more of a ability to just climb rocks and stuff and get into them weird areas where you probably really need to go

to get into their, their home areas. You know, who knows, probably would have stayed out of trouble, too. I ended up getting myself into a long way,

but, you know, but now I just can't stop. God, you know me, I just, I'm a book collector now and I'm a print collector,

and I just cannot stop. I just want to know. I want to, you know, what I wish there was an answer somewhere why this thing did because here we are talking about how camouflage and you can't see them. They don't want to show them. This thing stood right up, the one I saw and, you know, first through the rocks, what for? I mean, were the young ones? Was it trying to draw its attention to it to it? I don't know, but it didn't have to do that. I wasn't going to stay there long, waiting for my buddy Paul. I think in actually getting back to that story, when it backed up, I think the reason it was backing up and I thought of this after the fact was coming and it hurt him because I took off, and when I took off, I might have got, I don't know, a mile, half a mile, mile up further on a trail. And there's this mud hole up there that people tend to pull over and play in. And I stopped there where there were people, but I turned around and was facing back towards the woods.

And Paul wasn't that far behind me. I mean, he ended up finding me there. So it probably was. It probably heard him coming. And, you know, and I'll thank God that it did because I keep going over through this in my head. What would it have done? What would I have done? I started sinking into me what I was looking at.

and the panic set in or maybe whatever set in, I was reaching to get the camera or reaching in my, you know, what would this thing have done? I mean, you know, would it have reacted to defend itself? Who knows? I just, I'm just glad to turn out the way it did. It was kind of one of them, I want to say peaceful, even though it threw rocks, you know,

but it wasn't thrown at me, I've got to say, I don't think it was, because they were so accurately thrown at the same right front of my ATV that if it wanted to hit me, I think it would have hit me easily. So I think it was just trying to, again, draw out to attention or something, draw my attention. Well, hearing you talk about all this stuff, I mean, it's 2017, and it sounds like it's probably pretty hard for you to believe that not even 10 years ago you didn't even believe in Bigfoot. Oh, yeah, I have to think about that, you know, and I didn't, I don't know if I believed it.

I just never talked about it. It wasn't a conversation piece, and when somebody else did, I wouldn't state as part of the conversation. I wasn't into the movies. I wasn't into, you know, as a matter of fact, I don't even know when finding Bigfoot started, but my encounter happened in 2010, and I'm thinking it was maybe two years later. It was about two years later when I started really talking about it and mentioning it, I started texting all my friends because I was watching TV and advertise. I must have been on the same animal planner or whatever channel that finding Bigfoot's on and they were advertising an episode of them being in Pennsylvania in the Allegheny National Forest. And I was like, my God, they really, I'm not crazy, you know, because I know what I saw, but here's a team of Bigfoot hunters.

I didn't know anything about the show or nothing. And so I started texting everybody. You got to watch this episode. It's a bunch of people coming in the woods to look for Biggin. And they're going to be in the Allegheny National Forest and something happened to me up there. And I got to tell you, that's when I started opening up a little bit and then finally attended my first conference. But it was because of the, you know, finding Bigfoot of all shows.

but yeah they were less than I don't know 10 or 20 miles from where Mike Conner was they went to the Kinsua bridge it's an old train trestle I don't know 300 feet off the ground it's beautiful area and they were up there researching and I found that fascinating yeah that's pretty cool man

well you know what before we get out of here I do want to end on a little bit of a different story and I'm kind of putting on the spot but I'm doing it because I talk to one of the other guys that were there with us, and he says that he doesn't ever remember seeing it. So I want to know if I'm crazy or not. And I'll say the story, and I'll let you kind of carry it if you want later. But we were at the Ohio Bigfoot Conference, and it was probably about midnight. And you, me, Brian, and Scott went out on a hike in Salt Fork State Park. And when we were out there, we were hiking

down a path. It was very narrow. It must have been a... game trail or something. And we're on the side of a hill. So on our right side, there was a very steep hill. And on our left side, it was a very steep hill dropping off down to a creek. And we're walking this path. And I remember I look up to the right. And I see a light that's inside the canopy of the woods. Like we could, you could clearly see it was inside the canopy. And it was pulsating. It was glowing. It's getting brighter and then getting more dim, getting brighter and getting more dim, and I stopped everybody, and we all looked up there, and I thought everybody saw it, but Brian said that he didn't see it, and I'm wondering, did you see it?

Yeah, I did see part of that, but I've seen that before in the woods, so I wasn't quite as startled or negative or whatever about it. I've, that's one of the weird things we didn't get into, but some of the weird things I was saying, I've seen up at the Allegheny National Four, or up in Doug's area, even in the Allegheny National Forest, I've gone camping with some guys, and we've done some research and some of the weird stuff, the pulsating lights. I was Alleghen National Forest Camping one time, and we went up on the side of a hill in the middle of the night. Three guys plays a flute, so he was doing his thing. And we had this light.

It was like it didn't have night vision, and it went right past us. I was like, it was light, but it felt like electric. I remember when it went past us. I don't know if that was natural or unnatural. I have no idea, but it's just bizarre stuff out there. but I do remember seeing it. I didn't see the full thing that you did, but I saw the light. Yeah, and that...

But Brian don't remember seeing that? I thought he saw that. Yeah, I did too, but I don't think he saw it because I remember talking about it. And he's like, no, I never saw it. I know, I'm pretty sure Scott saw it. And the thing is, when I was watching it, it was pulsating, getting brighter than dimming down, getting brighter, getting dim it down. We watched it probably for a good minute or two, and then it just pulsated out.

It just died off, and it was gone. And it wasn't... like it was moving around like somebody was shining a spotlight or a plane was flying through the sky. It was staying still. It wasn't moving anywhere. And I just, it was the most strangest thing I ever saw in the woods up to that point. And I was like, this is incredible because I had heard about these orbs and stuff that people see in the woods, these balls of light. And, you know, I'd never imagine I would actually see something like that. And here it is. And I'm like, what the heck? You know, You make you wonder.

Yeah, and you know, you mentioned about some of the strange things you've encountered in the woods. Why don't you tell the people about when you first entered into that one area with Scott and what happened to you? Oh, yeah, it was, God, who was I with? I'm trying to remember now. I thought it was with Scott. Maybe Ken? Was it Ken with you? It was Ken, yeah, Scott. Yeah, this was, after Doug woke me up and she took me to his area, we were online. And we were on this other group. I'm not on anymore. But somebody started posting pictures that looked, I don't know how I knew it,

but it looked like the fauna, the way, you know, all woods look kind of the same. But this just looked like ours. So I hit the guy up and I said, where did you take this pictures? Where are you from? And he said, and it's the same town that Doug's from. This guy ended up living less than two blocks away from him, and they never knew each other. And at the time, he was just less than a year in the Sasquatch and phenomenon in the woods because he went out camp and he's big into just living in a tent pretty much.

And he had a house. He just, him and his family would stay in a tent, go to the home in the morning, take a shower, go to work, come back, and that's what they did. And he was saying some pretty bizarre stories online, and I'm like, I've got to witness this. As much as I know, that's what exists. What he's talking about, like the laser eyes, you know, the cloaking,

and he sees, they come into his campsite, and I'm like, okay. I kind of went up there with not a skeptic mind because I know they exist. but thought that he was telling big stories. And we got out of the car, walked into the woods, and this is a flat walk. This wasn't climbing hills or anything. I had my sleeping bag. His was tent and everything was already put up because it's been out there.

So I took my tent, a sleeping bag, and I'm telling you, we were less than 30 steps maybe into the woods. And it felt like the only way I could describe it was like a constrictor. You know, it was holding every breath I would take, and it was holding me in. I kept trying to walk. I smoked cigarettes. and I'm thinking, oh, you got to be kidding me. You know, I've never got worn out that quick, and I'm just thinking maybe I'm excited.

I don't know. I just was thinking I'm not going to be that guy, so I just tried to keep going. This was different than that, though. This was like a, you could feel it. It was like, hold my breath in. I finally dropped the one knee, and Ken's cousin, it's his cousin, but we're all about the same age.

It was his nephew, which was weird, because we're all about the same age. When he told me his nephew, I thought he was going to be this young kid, but it's actually about our age. He was standing kind of, next to me. And he actually come over and standing there making sure I was

okay, but he was chuckling, laughing. And I'm like, what do you laugh? And he said, this happens to most people we bring in the first time. So what I did was I said, let go, please let go. I don't know why I said that, but I did. And it was like instant relief. There was no time to recover. I can breathe perfectly.

And I don't know what that was, Tony. I just was like, okay, maybe I'm being a little cocky here. I'm not believing these guys, but there's something bizarre in these woods. You could feel it. And then we had an incident happen that night. A couple of incidents, actually, the red lights coming out of the tree walking right towards Doug and I, about 2 o'clock in the morning. You can hear the bike people walking, and it turned to our right.

It would have been to its left. Sort of went down over this little slope of the hill on the other side of the tent, and that's where Ken and his wife were sitting over there on over, sat down next to him. And I said, you won't believe what we just saw. And then we could hear this peeing in the woods off to our left where this thing would walk. a man pissing, you know, taking a leak in the woods. It's unmistakable son. I started laughing and Ken took the hay son I was being disrespectful, but he said, I told you

that's them, that's what they do. I thought that was bizarre. He didn't allow flashlights, don't turn flashlights on, don't scare them, don't startle them. He don't know how to, you know, none of that stuff. We don't even have a campfire because he believes in getting your night vision, which I do too now. I mean, I like the

campfire thing, too, but I see where he was coming from with it. But I still, this thing never came into my night vision, like where I could see in the dark, it seemed like it stayed right outside of that. I could see the eyes, and they started red. They actually turned green or white, and they were kind of emitted.

It was emitted light. It was not reflected. I would never believe this, if something, because that's kind of going into the woo thing. But again, I didn't see the body, so I can't say that with a Sasquatch. I just don't know, but I think a lot of places in this way. But Pennsylvania, these woods up there are so old,

And from what I understand, a lot of Indian burial grounds and different things. And, you know, who knows what's up there. Back in the 70s, you know, Stan Gordon's, everyone knows who he is. He investigates Pennsylvania phenomena. He did the UFO investigations from when we had that influx of UFOs and Bigfoot sightings in the 70s. And, you know, it's just an area that has that. All you've got to do is camp and keep an open mind and being a right spot, and you're going to see it. you know, the lights, the, you know, but to say what it is, I mean, it's hard to just say that was a sask, I mean, because we didn't see it, you know, you didn't see the, you know, we were in an area where there were some broken, you know, I believe in the stick structures and stuff, depending on what they are. And we were in a great area for that. So, you know, you put two and two together, you kind of think, you know, I don't know, but to me that feeling of being squeezed was bizarre because nothing had a hold of me. I mean, it wasn't like something physical was standing.

in her, but there was a force that was squeezing me and I couldn't breathe. And the thing that really was weird was the instant recovery. As soon as I asked, please let go. And it was like I was, it was like I was talking to something and it let go. And his cousin laughing just was like, you know, no, he wasn't concerned for me at all. He was laughing, actually. And he said this happens. The most people we bring in here the first time, something like this happens.

I'm like, okay. So I'm telling you, it's, you know, some weird stuff out there. Yeah, and I've had this conversation with people before. A lot of times, and Bigfoot aside, I mean, let's just put that aside, a lot of times people think that evil spirits or spirits in general ghosts, they're either in old houses or old buildings, and that's it. And that's just not simply true.

I mean, we've heard of haunted forests before. And if there's going to be a haunted forest, Algae National Forest is a pretty good candidate, because that, those forests are so old. And fortunately, they're preserved pretty well because Pennsylvania was subject to some serious logging back in the 1800s. And a lot of our old growth forests did get chopped down. But the Allegheny National Forest was pretty well preserved from that. And it's huge. And there's tons of history there, like you mentioned about earlier with the Native Americans.

And I just find it very fascinating, the stories that I hear that come out of the woods sometimes, like what you're sharing tonight, and, you know, I hear other people say the same thing. So, uh, yeah, there was, uh, oh, there's another incident I wanted, I was going to tell you about. No, I can't recall it because there's been so many weird ones, but, uh, uh, I can't recall it right now, Tony, but it had, it was in the Allegheny National Forest again. It was another bizarre, you know, I, I recall, oh, yeah, and I hope Jamie King doesn't remind me saying that story. I mean, we did put it out. We're going to keep it, you know, we don't want people to start as a kid, his family went in camp there. It's in the Allegheny National Forest. They come over from Ohio to do this trip

twice a year. So as he grew up, he's got kids now. He started asking his friends to come. And he always thought something's in these woods. He's believed it. Then when he heard my encounter, him and I hooked up. I always liked him from the first time I met him. He was always a respectful guy. He invited me up and then a couple of us got together with him. And now there's several of us to go up. So anyhow, Jamie shows up. And he's got this. audio recorder. And he says, this audio recorder is pretty wild. And

in my mind, I'm like, it's an audio recorder. You know, what's wild? He went on to explain how it was an older one. It doesn't even have a USB port. It's a very old one. You can't find them anymore. After what happened to us, we realized how good this thing was, we got online. Brian and I got online.

Brian got online, and he found a couple. I think there were seven that he found on YouTube or on eBay. And they were all like five or grand for this old, you know, because what they were, they, he used it for ghost hunting a lot, the ghost, to pick up sounds above and below human hearing. And that's what it does.

The circuitry goes way below and way above human hearing, and we don't know how it does it and why this was translated into English, because it must have came out in English, but he demonstrated for us, and we used it that night. And he went, him and I, I think, the four of us, it was all four of us standing there. This is, I don't know, midnight, two in the morning. There's nobody here.

We're in the middle of this forest. There's nobody up here. It's not like, you know, anyone near us, probably for miles. And he asks the short questions like he does with the ghost hunting, nothing deep. But, you know, you've probably heard it. But the one that really stuck out to me because it's so obvious was, what forest are we in now? You could hear this voice that says, we didn't hear it then. you can see the light coming on

and he said something responded, so that's how he knew. But when we play it back, and then he asked all kinds of questions, but you can hear responses to it. Yeah, actually, I do have that recording. And Jamie actually told me I can play, because I knew you were going to be coming on, and I figured I'd get permission ahead of time. So here's the recording of the entity saying

what forest you guys were in, which was the Allegheny National Forest. You'll hear us say, Allegheny. So here we go. So, yeah, that's the recording. And if you listen real closely, I repeated it a couple of times there, but if you listen, it says, Allegheny. It's like kind of breathy and stuff. And Dave, I know you heard it. I definitely hear Allegheny, but it's very fascinating. Now, what is that? You know, is it, is it tree spirits? Is it four spirits? Is it evil? Is it? Who knows what it is? I mean,

I just know this forest is bizarre now. My personal opinion is somebody needs to really get into serious study. of infrasound. You know, we all talk about Sasquire in using it different ways, but it can actually be measured now. And the guy that he took the tape to, or not the tape, the reporter to,

did some audio research or studies audio, and he said this was infrasound. And it was in that realm. So I really wish that somebody would take a deep interest, and maybe they are, they're just not talking about it.

Find the right equipment to really study infrasound and see how we can, connect the dots with it because there was something there talking and it was talking in English. Why English, I have no idea, but it was and I'm not somebody that second guesses and stuff and, you know, make stuff up. This was very obvious.

You know, if anybody wants to hear that, you can ask me, you know, I'd play it for you. I don't know if I'll send you the recording, but I definitely would play it for you. And it was Jamie, so I don't want to be sharing it online or anything. But yeah, that was in the Allegheny National Forest. He's another one that I would like to include in the group, by the way. I've got to talk to all these people, most of my half, if we get up there to look at that. Yeah. Any chance I get to run around the woods with Jamie, you, and whoever else you put together, that's, like, perfect.

Well, I think it's because we just happen to be up in the Allegheny. It probably doesn't matter who the people are to underplay that a little bit. But no, yeah, you're right. I think a few of us have had experiences, and it's just, you know, like I said, once you do, you don't second-guess that. You don't have a doubt anymore. Well, I said everything's a spear. You really have to go into these things with an open mind and try to keep the Sasquatch on the brain gone. Don't think everything's going to be a Sasquatch.

Don't think, you know, like that bear that stood up on me. My first mind was, oh, my God, there's a Sasquatch, and he's right in front of us in its daylight again. This is happening again because the bear stood up, you know. that just, you try not to have it on the brain, but you do. And it's just one of those things. But when it comes to sounds and stuff that you can't see, yeah, it's very difficult not to have. You got to go in with an open mind and, you know, and to, if we have time, I guess, I'd say this too, about the Allegheny National Forest. Of all places, I actually got invited to Todd Dese's Beachfoot.

It's that invite only thing he has out in Oregon. This was in 2016. I was invited last year, too, this year too, but I couldn't make it because of Rayan's death. But anyhow, I'm not going to give him the guy's name. He actually runs the Creature Weekend and it's on Fork, so anybody that knows who that is, knows what I'm talking about. He was at Beach Foot, too. And Saturday night, we're standing around at the campfire.

Everyone's BSing. He was standing there. He didn't even know he's listening to us, but he heard me talking to Dan Lindel, which is a great guy. I met Dan there. Man, this guy's super guy. I love Dan. but he heard me telling Dan my experience in the Allegheny National Forest.

He comes over and he says, I have to interrupt. He said, you're talking about the Allegheny National Forest. Me and a team go up there and we research a couple times a year. And I'm like, what? Because I knew this guy was from, I thought at the time, Maryland or somewhere south. You know what I mean? And he says, yeah, they travel up there. He told me a story.

And he's not the kind of guy that sounds like any kind of BS or not. And I know in the Allegheny National Forest, I got to. take it the heart. But they went in, a few of them on one of their camping trips, and he told me he set the area out there camping his little stream, and they put one of their game trail camps was on the other side of the stream, facing back up to the campsite. One of the guys didn't sleep in a tent.

He always slept by the fire in his bedroar. And game trail camp was looking at him. You can see the bedroll and see him on the ground up on the hill. He said in one of the shots, the guys game trip, you know, the guy's bed rolls there and everything's fine. The next shot, it's completely gone like it was never there. The next shot, it's back. So they thought, when they were looking at it in the morning, thought he just moved, you know,

went somewhere maybe climbed in a tent or something. So they were joking with him the next morning, this guy. Asked him where he went. He said, he never left. He said, he slept there the whole night. And he said, that freaked him out so bad. No, did the guy sleepwalk and take us? But who knows?

But what set that thing? The trail cam. But he said, literally, he said, that's, That's the kind of stuff they experience, and I told them exactly. That's, that those woods are so full of something. And I know Sasquatch, too. There's Sasquatch up there, but, you know, there's also spirit. There's, there's some beautiful woods, though.

I love that area. Absolutely. Well, Dave, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing with the audience and, you know, getting your encounter out there again and kind of filling in some details with, you know, what's going on in the Allegheny National Forest. Absolutely love it, man. I appreciate you being on. Oh, thanks for having me, Tony. We've been wanting to do this for a while.

Yes, sir. Absolutely. Take care, man. All right, you too. Bye. Well, that's the show, everybody. I really hope you enjoyed it. And if you did enjoy it, please go ahead and share it around on social media. It doesn't matter to me what it is. It could be Facebook, Instagram, Twitter.

It doesn't matter to me, but please share the show if you're interested in helping to advance the show in its popularity. Because word of mouth is the best way for this show to grow. And that totally depends on the fans of the confessionals. Now, I wanted to get into real quick before we get out of here that Jamie, the guy who recorded the Allegheny National Forest Entity, he wanted me to let you guys know that that recorder that he uses actually records below 20 hertz, which is within the infrasound range. And he wanted everybody to know that he did not hear that voice when he recorded it. Neither did Dave Groves. All they heard was the forest around them. It wasn't until they played it back, did they hear that voice. So he wanted you guys to understand how that work. He doesn't hear it with a naked ear. It's below human hearing range. And the only way you can hear is once you record it, you play it back through the audio. So I hope you guys enjoyed the show this week.

Stay safe. Take care. And I will see you right here next Saturday on the confessions. Attempt to make the voices stop. Robby to prove nothing just right in to say something because I wasn't the only one that wasn't rushing to say in nothing. This doesn't. I mean, I lost my dream.

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