The Confessionals - 514: Terror In The LBL

Episode Date: January 24, 2023

In Episode 514: Terror In The LBL we are joined by Martin Groves, a retired sheriff, who recently started speaking publicly about his horrific experience in the Land Between The Lakes (LBL) back in 1993. Martin and his hunting partner, who was also a police officer, went on a weekend hunting trip that was supposed to be fun and relaxing. After spending some time in the LBL on their hunts and as nightfall approached, things turn to anything but relaxing. Martin recalls being stalked on his way back to camp where his partner was waiting for him. Then that night through a series of dramatic events, Martin and his partner came to realize that they were being hunted by three upright-walking dogmen. As one dogman came walking into their camp to show itself to them, there were two taunting them from the shadows. They fired upon the creatures and ran for the truck where they encounter more unexpected beasts. Martin and his partner escaped with their lives that night but one hunter not far from their camp wasn't so lucky. After this experience, Martin spent the next 20+ years of his law enforcement career quietly investigating these encounters people were having in the LBL. He's connected a lot of dots and wants to share what he's learned with everyone today in this two-part Overtime episode!NEW LOGO PRE-SALE: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/storeBecome a member for AD FREE listening and EXTRA shows: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinSee Tony LIVE in Gatlinburg, TN!Tickets: https://bit.ly/3IC4IkxGet Crypto-Color (Coloring Book):Non-Signed Copy: https://amzn.to/3Yn23RlSigned Copy: https://www.merkel.media/store/p/cryptocolorWatch Expedition Dogman: https://bit.ly/3CE6Kg0Tony's Studio Equipment: linktr.ee/mystudiogearSPONSORSGET EMP Shield: empshield.com Coupon Code: "tony" for $50 off every item you purchase!GET ExpressVPN: expressvpn.com/confessGET SIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsGET Hello Fresh: hellofresh.com/confessionals16 Promo Code: "confessionals21" for 21 FREE MEALS!!!Get Emergency Food Supplies: www.preparewiththeconfessionals.comGet Beard Oil: bit.ly/2FbOhN5CONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] to the Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/the-newsletterSOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIDiscord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelAre you a military veteran struggling with thoughts of suicide?Contact Watchman Readiness Corps for REAL help. A veteran-run organization that is designed to help through hands-on survival training.Website: wrc.vetEmail: [e-mail]: [phone]Instagram: wrc_survivalFacebook: colbywrcvetMartin Groves bookBeasts Between The Rivers: https://amzn.to/3j1GOEw

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available on the website again. So if you want your shirt, go ahead and get it right now while you listen to this episode. Merkel. Media. This was all circulating around the base that a giant had to kill, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, boning fingers. reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear.

When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing at this giant. Well, the giant moves. He's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast. And spears, Dan, holds him up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face. They basically decapitated.

Purson, got closer, got spurson, when he got about this. Pulling at my leg. And I look over and there are two small gray entities. And they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed. I'm in this bush and I touch air. Couldn't breathe and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. Yeah. Welcome to the show, everybody.

You're listening to The Confessionals. I'm your host, Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here. Do you a crazy wild experience you want to share with me on the show? Go ahead and shoot me an email. My email, my email, is The Confessionals at the Confessionalspodcast.com. That's The Confessionals at the Confessionalspodcast.com.

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and you're going to get yourself access to the Thursday shows. access to all the overtime segments. If that interests you, go to the professionals podcast.com, hit the join button and become a member today. Friends, if you're looking to EMP proof your home, go to EMP shield.com. Check out the devices for your cars and house. And when you purchase that, you can get yourself $50 off every device you order. If you put in the coupon code, Tony, link is in the description of this episode. So you do not forget, make sure you and your family are good to go in those emergencies. And that includes EMP blast, whether it is a solar flare to an actual attack on the United States or wherever you reside. Make sure you guys are good to go.

Make sure if you're at the office, your truck car can still drive with EMP shield.com. All right, friends, listen, we also are doing a live show this year in Tennessee with Hillbilly Horror Stories. Jerry asked me if I wanted to do a live show with him over there. And I said, absolutely, where are we doing it? He said Gatlinburg. And I was like, oh, Gatlinburg. That's 45 minutes from my house. You're telling me I don't have to get a hotel. Yeah, I'm down for that action. So here's the information on that. September 30th, 2000, 23 at 1 p.m. is when we start.

You got plenty of time to plan for this. We're almost nine months out. You can make sure you can get there. And where is it at? Gatlinburg, Tennessee. My home state, East Tennessee. Love it very much. If you're interested in coming out to this live show

with me and Hillbilly Horror Stories, September 30th, 2020, 23 in Gatlinburg, Tennessee, you're going to want to check out the link in the description below, the Eventbright.com link. that's the one you're going to want to click. All right, friends. I hope to see you there in Gatlinburg, Tennessee, September 30th, 2020. All right, this week we have a phenomenal guest coming on the show.

We've been putting out heaters, and we're just going to keep the heaters rolling as fast and as possible as we can. We had Martin Groves come in studio. Martin is a retired police officer here in the great state of Tennessee. And back in 1993, him and his hunting partner, who was also a police officer, had the terrible terror of a night when they came across three dogmen coming into their tent. They barely escaped with their lives. And they're not the only ones that had this encounter that night because there was a camper

about a mile away from them that wasn't so lucky. They were by themselves and they were found the next day torn to pieces. This is a very real experience right out of the LBL. And Martin comes on to tell exactly what happened to him and his partner that night and how they barely escaped to their lives. This is not just dogman. They had Bigfoot on the scene that night as well. which really left them wondering what is actually going on here.

And I'm wondering the same thing. Martin reached out to us because he saw our film Expedition Dogman, which is now available on Amazon, link in the description of this episode. And he wanted to come on and share his experience because after he saw that documentary, he knew he had to talk to us. And I'm really glad he did because he has one of the most dramatic stories I've ever heard in my entire life involving Dogman. And it's happening right in my backyard at the LBL in Tennessee.

Let's get to Martin. and his horrible, horrific terror of a night in the LBL in 1993. All right, today we got Martin Groves in studio. Martin, how are you, sir? I'm great, and it's very good to be here with you, Tony. Man, I'm glad you're here. So we got connected, I think shortly before the holidays. And the way it happened for me was Christian Roper.

You, I guess, did you see Exhibition Dog Man and then you reached out to him? Is that what it was? I had watched the movie and I thought it was such an excellent performance documentary movie that I just wanted to speak with him. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. And so he was here, he was here for quite a while working on the film that we're coming out with. And we were talking and you came up and he's like, you got to talk to this guy. And so I looked you up and quite often, to be honest with you, when I look somebody up, I reach out and conversation doesn't materialize and it just never happens. And with you, it just worked out great. I think you actually, I think what you did is you sent him your book and then he gave me a copy. Yes. And I read the book and I was just like, holy crap.

By the way, your book is probably the first book I've read in a long time. Cool, man. I'm very honored. Thank you. I started reading it and it's just, the story just grabbed me. And part of it's because it takes place here, you know, where I live in the same state. And Christian couldn't speak higher of you. And then I found out that you're friends with Bart Nunley and you were actually at the conference in Paris, Tennessee. and I was there, but I don't remember seeing you.

You know, I was in that side room. Uh-huh. So you were in the side room and you were taping and speaking with someone, I think possibly a witness, and you were interviewing someone. Yeah. And I stuck my head in at one time. I remembered because I actually knew who you were. Okay. And I'm like, okay, I don't need to bother them because I see that they're engaged, but I had seen you in that side room as soon as you walk in on

right. Oh, man. I, I, I, um, that was a fun day. That was a fun day. Josh Turner from Paranamo Roundtail put on a good show, uh, or a good conference there. Um, just let the audience know listening. I'm already losing my voice. I have throat lozenges in my mouth and, um, I'll try not to make any noise with them and stuff. And as I go, I'm going to lose my voice though. But, um, so you were at the conference. We didn't run into each other, though. I read your book and the story that you had to share in the book of your experience with this dogman creatures. And then the different aspects of it I definitely want to hit on, especially so I don't forget the metallic banging that you heard.

Is that what it was? Yes. Yeah, we'll go into that because that's the first time I've ever heard of that and how it's associated with dogman encounters. Is that how you see it too? Yes, yes, it is. Okay. Very much so.

So we're going to start off today with your encounter. I want you to kind of lay the groundwork as far as who you are, your background, because I think that plays a lot to your credibility and what you were doing out there and what happened. So we're going to spend this first half of the show talking about your encounter story, what happened to you, and then how did that propel you into gathering other people's encounter stories to understanding certain things about that area. You hear reports, hey, there's a bear attack. You're like, that doesn't seem quite like a bear attack to me or whatever it is.

I want to go into that conversation more into the overtime. But for this segment, I definitely want to talk to you about your encounter story. So if I could, just hand it over to you and let you take it away. Who is Martin Groves? Oh, that is a perplexing question. And I don't know, maybe my wife should answer that one better than me. But I'm a very humble guy, and it's very hard for me to talk about myself. but I'm Martin Gros.

I am a retired police officer. I was a police officer for 32 years of my life ever since I was 18 years of age. And I started in a small town up in Kentucky. And I knew that I wanted to be a police officer because I wanted to help people. And so I spent all of my adult teenage and adult life being trained as a police officer. I liked what I was doing and I continued with my career. The humble part comes in. It's kind of hard for me to talk about my training.

But I guess I've been trained to do every job and police work there is. You know, you could talk about basic or advanced criminal activity and investigation from something as simple as investigating a car being broken. into complex homicides and I've done it all and I've been trained to do it all and it is it's just kind of hard to talk about

because folks when people hear you speaking of your of your career and you begin to tell about how well that you are trained people kind of take it wrong but I'm as trained as a police officer can be

In 1993, I was a deputy sheriff at a local sheriff's department here in Tennessee, and I had been with the department since 1986, and I was a patrol deputy for Robertson County Sheriff's Office, located at 507, at that time at 500 Willow Street, and then later on at 507 South Brown Street in Springfield, Tennessee. and I served with the department from 1986 until 2012, 2013, when I had a accident on a 911 call and was injured and I could not return back to work. I had suffered some injuries to my legs and I had to retire. But in 1993, I was a deputy sheriff and was working the midnight shifts at that time.

and myself and a co-worker had decided to take a trip and do a primitive camp out and do some turkey hunting and to land between the lakes on the Tennessee side. And so we planned for weeks and the gentleman's name that I have protected is identity. And unfortunately, my hunting partner has passed away now. But Harry was a gentleman that I worked with for many years. and as a man whom I respected and they had the highest respect for. And on duty, we were, folks would talk about us that we basically were unmatched. We, the reason why I tell you this, and you'll understand as my story goes, we were not afraid of anything and we tackled anything that come before us in law enforcement.

And with two of us, we never had any issues. With two of us together, we could tackle. any type of situation you can imagine in police work. So in 1993, I want to say about March, we began getting geared up and planning and getting ready to go into a primitive camp out. And the last of April, we decided to go in. We had the type permits that we needed for the state of Tennessee to do turkey hunting. And we've located several different food plots in the area.

that we knew that would be productive for turkeys. And we went in on a Friday, and we found us a really nice campsite, and it was out in the middle of nowhere. Some folks that have never been into land between the lakes, it's hard to understand, but for this part of Tennessee, this is like the Yellowstone or some national park. It's 177,000 acres of just, sheer wilderness.

There's nothing in between, no, very few buildings, and they would be of government use for different reasons. And there's nothing on the property except trees and rivers and waterways and such. And so we found us a nice spot on the Kentucky and Tennessee line. And we settled in for the night. And the first night we came in, there was. was really nothing to speak of. It was a really good night.

It was quiet. Now, our camp was set up to where that when I speak of how desolate or how remote this place was, there's no cars, there's no traffic. You see no electrical light. If you're close enough to the river or to one side of the lakes, you might hear an occasional boat, and that is it. So we get our campsite going and we're cooking and just getting ready to settle in for the night. And just about as laid back and relaxed of a time as you could have for camping. And we went to sleep and I remember getting awakened and this might be important that it may come up later.

But the only thing that happened to us is we had a matured. were a raccoon come into our camp and was nosing around and woke us up. But that was it. So we wake up Saturday morning. It's raining a little bit and we decided to remain in camp and just hang out until the rain stopped. We both at some point when it eased up on the rain, we had decided to go our separate ways and Harry went one direction. And I went, in another direction and I was a very confident hunter I had been raised in the woods all my life since I was a child and my navigation skill was fairly good and I knew where I was going. So I trekked out on my own and went through the wood wooded area that would have led from the

Tennessee and Kentucky line towards the trace road. and we were several miles off of the trace. And I'm walking through the woods and everything is normal. I've got the different types of insects that are making noise. And I'm seeing some signs of when I first start out on my hiking, I'm seeing some signs of turkey. I'm seeing some signs of wildlife. But the further I go along,

I recount and go back now that I recall halfway through my hike, I began to notice that there was absolutely no sign of any wildlife and which I felt was a very odd thing for the area that I was in. But I continued through my hike and I had set up a couple places and did some locator calls for shock in a male turkey, a gobbler. And at one point I did get some responses and feels, and I just continued through my day. This went on for hours, and I walked for miles. I was a young man in those days and was in fairly good shape.

So really nothing out of the place. Nothing took anything that would stand out for me, and just I was enjoying my time. and as the hours went by I got further and further away from our camp and again being a very confident person it didn't it didn't frighten me to be that far away I look back now and it may have been a mistake to be so far away from my camp so sometime in the late afternoon I got tired and I took a break and I decided to come out of the woods and I came upon a very old logging road that didn't look like it had anything on the road for a long time. And I was sitting there and taking a break and drinking some water and eating some deer jerky

that I had brought with this on the trip when I heard a motor noise. And I thought how odd that it was for a vehicle to be that far back. and I saw a small Nissan pickup truck coming toward me with a single occupant inside the truck. It was just an older truck, and I could tell immediately they was dressed in camo, and I knew it was a hunter. And the guy pulled up close to me and got out, and I stood up to greet the gentleman, and it was a man roughly my same age, maybe a little bit younger than I. And we just hit it off real good, and we both were kidding with.

with each other and and after we talked a few minutes, you know, hunter, hunter, hunter comradery. And, uh, the gentleman told me, uh, said, hey, I'm Bubba. And I said, I'm Bubba too. And I said, this ain't going to work, you know. And it was real funny thing, you know, there's just down, down here in the south, you know, everybody's Bubba. And, uh, so we talked for a little while and we kidded and cut it up with each other and I remember so about him making fun of my shotgun and he wanted to know how long I had been, you know, hunting turkeys with a gun and why didn't I give them more of an opportunity or more of a chance? And I said, well, dude, how do you hunt? And he brought out a

compound bow and he said, this is how I hunt turkeys. And I laughed at the concept. I mean, I had heard of it, but I had never seen him one that actually at that time, this was, this in 1993, I did not know anyone that was hunting turkeys with a compound bow. And he was, turns out his skill level was very high. And he showed me how he could hit with his thing. And he was very good. And so we talked. I really don't know how long that he and I talked, but we spent some good time together.

and it started getting later and later in the afternoon. I knew I needed to get back, and he wanted to go back to his camp. And the individual told me, he said, hey, you know, you ought to come over to my camp. And he kind of basically told me where he was along the trace, which is only a little over a mile from the location where we were, but he was right there close to Kentucky, Tennessee side. I find out later that he actually was from the state of Kentucky, But before we left, we exchanged pleasantries.

And it turned out that, you know, the rivalry of he was a fireman, had my name, and that I was a Bubba from Tennessee, and I was a police officer. And you'll never meet, about the majority of policemen will tell you, say, I mean, I always wanted to be a fireman. And a fireman will always say to you, I always want to be a cop, you know. So it was just a funny, funny afternoon. And anyway, we exchanged pleasantries shook hands and was saying goodbye. And as I started to walk off from him, he told me, he said, say, you know, I probably shouldn't say anything.

But I just wanted to warn you, you might keep your heads up in the late evenings or at nighttime. He said, this has been something circling my camp at night, but it stays outside the fire. light zone. In other words, it would stay far enough from where the lighted area was from his camp that he couldn't see what it was. And I said, I asked him, I said, well, what is it? And he said, I don't know. He said, I'm here by myself, but I'm not really frightened or anything. I do have a firearm in the truck, but I just thought I'd give you a heads up. And so it was real casual? Very casual and very laid back. At the time, I should have paid more attention to that.

But again, very just, I don't want to use the word that comes to my mind, but I was just very too overconfident as a young man and as a young hunter, that overconfidence level that you have. Sure. And so I just shrugged it off and we said our goodbyes and he drove off and I went my separate way. And to be honest, I didn't even give it a thought.

whatsoever at the moment. And even on my way back, when I began to notice some things, I still didn't give it any credence. And we're walking back, and I'm just kicked back, walking through the woods. I've done give up. It's starting to get almost dark. And as I'm walking through the woods, the first thing that I noticed is just for an evening in land between the lakes, you're going to hear the frogs.

and you're going to begin to hear the night insects and the crickets and different things. And I heard nothing. And I say it again, again, just never gave it any thought. And I'm so confident and I'm headed back to my camp. And I just am not paying attention. I'll be honest with you. I'm just not paying attention. And the further that I walked, I began to hear some noises that.

that I have no idea why I didn't pay attention, but I began to hear noises. And the first thing that happened was that I heard a extremely strange noise in the woods. Now, I'm miles away from any buildings. I'm miles away from any other vehicles. Where this gentleman had pulled up and spoke to me was the end of the road. It did end right there into. the woods and I had watched him drive away so I knew that he was not anywhere in the area

so the first noise I heard was an extremely loud metallic noise that sounded as if it was a heavy metal door scraping the floor and closing and it it soon as the noise happened it disappeared. But it was remarkable that I look back now that it should have told me that there was something wrong right then and there. So it becomes death, even death or quiet. And right after I heard this noise, I continue walking. And I'm looking around. I'm shifting. I'm looking left and right. And I'm looking up in the air to see if this, you know, possibility of an airplane or something had flown over me. I didn't see any. I didn't see any. anything. And it was death quiet. And as I'm walking, this is when I began to see something

out of my peripheral vision over to the parallel to the right of me. There is a ridge in the woods. And this is when I began to see movement. You have to take into account this is in the spring, and we have all the trees and the foliage, and you have the brambles and the bushes, and all this. So out of my vision, I'm seeing only movement. And it could be at one point I noticed between two, 250 yards, and I noticed that there was something running in the woods beside of me, but kept its distance from me.

And the more I walk, the more that I'm beginning to really pay attention and to watch. and I did catch a glimpse at one point, and I was convinced at some point that I had a pack of cowboys that was after me, and this is not unheard of in land between the lakes. You can see as many as 20 to 25 coyotes in the woods at any time, and this is when they come out.

So let me ask you about this before we go further. So at this point, you're convinced that it's a pack of coyotes, Does that mean that you believe you're seeing multiple? It's not just one creature stocking you? Yes. I'm seeing two or three. I guess the word would be apparitions or just images running through the woods. And as I said, it's not unheard of to have a whole pack of calories.

So I still don't have any guard up. I know I know that there's cowdies all over and in 93 we were not the general public didn't realize either that they're supposed to be wolves and lamb between the lakes where they had reintroduced the red wolf and they've kept it totally off from the general public. So I've got cowboys coming up or something moving and I'm still don't have my guard up. then I begin to hear whistles, loud, shrill whistles. I've got a shrill whistle on front of me, which could be two to 300 yards in front of me, and then I heard a shrill whistle that is behind me and is some distance away. But I cannot see anything. I can't see anybody.

So at some point, my mind is thinking that, okay, cowdies, or do I have a hundred, hunter in the woods with me and these are his hunting dogs now we're in spring turkey season but it's not unheard of to have uh coon hunters that are training their dogs or coon hunters that are out in the field and uh so again i'm just chucking right along and and no fear no fear no thought um at some point is when i heard what the word that i've used is one of my grandfather's words called clamped. It was just a noise that somebody clampered something. And it almost sounded as if it was a rock striking a rock.

And the thought in my mind like, okay, that could be my hunting companion that has made it back to camp and he's using an axe, maybe cutting on some wood or hitting the tree or something. and the whistles could actually be the fact that it could be that he's whistling for me. So I wrote all these things, I just wrote it off. And so I continued to walk. Now, you know, when I began my story, I told you I'd walk from miles in which I have. And I have been back and I know I know the distance now that I actually have walked. But I had walked for miles. So I'm going back and I'm slow-paced.

and again, it's getting pretty dark. But now I've got movement coming in on my right side again, and they've never stopped. But the thing that come to my mind, and I noticed that if they're cowdies or even a hunter's dogs, why haven't they moved in on me and got closer to sniff me out or to discover what I am? And so it just hit me,

Just all of a sudden it hit me. And so I'm walking a brisk pace at this point, and I just froze. And when I stopped, these animals stopped. They did not continue. And I knew at that point that something was wrong here. Cowaties are not going to freeze. They're going to continue to go on. And believe me, I've hunted lots of cowdies in my lifetime,

so I knew this was abnormal behavior. And so I would walk a little bit and again just immediately freezing my tracks. So with these animals. Whatever this was that was running in the woods and keeping a distance away from me, I began to realize that these animals were stalking me and that the fact that the animals were smart and intelligent enough that they would walk when I walked, yet stop when I stopped. when I stopped. That's when I began to get worried, and I jacked around into my shotgun.

Typically, when I walk, and when I'm walking in the woods or walking in the field, my weapon, I keep a breach open. But I got frightened enough that I put a round into the chamber. And so at some point, I've got the animals moving. I've got the weird noises that I've heard and I begin to see some light where the sun is coming down and it's real late and I'm facing the west half

of LBL heading towards my camp and this is when I see something moving in front of me and I see a very large shape next to a couple of oak trees. And the oak trees are huge, and that's how I would gauge what I'm seeing in my eyes. And I'm seeing a very large person that is on two legs, and I felt that it was a hunter.

And I'm looking, and because of what I did for a living, I've used gilly suits many times. And that's what, in my mind, I'm seeing a hunter in a gilly suit that is up in front of me. And so everything's starting to make sense now to me that this hunter is calling his dogs and he's in a gilly suit and he probably doesn't like me being in his area.

And so I just wrote everything off. So I'm looking ahead of me and these animals are still moving beside me as I walk when I hear the metallic noise. Once more. So I've got whistles. I've got something being hit and struck against something, rock on rock or rock on tree. And then I hear this second strong metallic noise.

And at the same time that I'm looking and I'm trying to watch where the coyotes are or whatever these things are, this noise takes my full attention. But I still am trying to focus at the hunter ahead of me. and he just disappears out of my view. And I'm thinking, how did this guy just duck away from me? Did he duck behind the tree or what did he do? So yes, by this point I'm very nervous, but I don't know what to think. And all these equations are going through my mind. But I know now that I'm losing all my sight from the light going away.

and I do have something in the woods with me, and this is very strange. So I hump it back to camp pretty fast, and I'm keeping a very brisk pace at this point. As I get closer back to camp, I'm beginning to smell wood smoke, and I know that I'm in the general area, and I come off the ridge, and I come down a path that I've been following that would lead straight to our camp, and it is right beside of a creek, and the creek runs right directly behind our camp. And so I cross a little creek, and I get over, and the closer that I get,

I can actually see that the fire has started, and I see the movement of my hunting partner, and Harry has already made it back to camp, and I holler at him, let him know that it is me coming into the camp. And the closer that I walk and I come into the camp, I can visually see that Harry is pacing back and forth. And I holler at him and tell him that it's something to the effect that, hey, man, I'm sorry I've been gone so long.

And I felt, you know, from what I've seen in the facial expression, I felt that he was, honestly, I felt like he might be upset with me. And he looked at me and said, no, it's not you. I was worried about you being gone so long. But he said, I've had some issues, some problems in the camp while you were gone. So I got closer and we stood and we talked and I set my stuff down and we began to talk. And I don't talk a lot about Harry because he's not here to accurately to tell his story. But what Harry passes on to me is that during his midday hunt,

that while he's out in a field, he hunted a corn patch, which is distal to our camp. And as he's in the camp, he walks out and he finds him a good spot. He gets set up into the cornfield. And as he's in the cornfield, he's having objects being thrown at him. Now, you have to understand that Harry was a good size man,

and it takes a lot to shake him. And he wasn't frightened. But he's hearing some of the same noises that I've heard. And he lets me know that he believes he's got a hunter that was harassing him. And he heard the whistles. And he heard at one point he heard the metallic sound and didn't know what to think that that was. But one of the things that he brought up to me was that he's in the middle of a cornfield. And he's completely away from any type of noise.

And there's no way that what he describes to me. me could be could could he have witnessed or seen but he had a half-eaten corn cob with corn on it go whizzing past his head now what he described to me and and what shook him up was that this this this a old rotten corn corn thing with with some corn on it doesn't weigh anything for the for it to be thrown at such a far distance from inside of a woods and go whizzing past his head, he felt like that it really took a strong man to have done that. And he just could not understand that he was perplexed by that. And he said, but looking back that it had to have been a hunter and that we had upset a hunter.

and he felt like that, hey, I'm here, I'm going to hunt. Doesn't matter, there's plenty of room for other hunters to come in and hunt. He wasn't going anywhere. Let me ask you a question about this. You brought up the idea of a hunter. He brought up an idea of a hunter. What's the culture here in Tennessee when it comes to this stuff? I mean, it, I mean, back.

when this happened in 93 you said? Yes. Yes. I imagine Tennessee's changed a lot since then. But it's still way more rural than what I came from in Pennsylvania. So when there is a hunter out there

from your vantage point and from his vantage point, and you probably at this time is thinking it's two separate people doing this. What were you thinking? Were you thinking that this is some guy that lives out here and we're on his territory and he's going to try doing his harm are you thinking come get some what was the idea because you're thinking hunter

are you thinking i'm going to have to defend myself against this guy because you know these these these backwood hillbillies they're crazy or whatever like what was going through your head this everything you said went through my head is this or we're going to have to uh have some type of of a showdown with locals that hunted this area or maybe it was their what I call their honey hole that they had protected because it was a good

turkey hunting area and even in one point we'd even thought that maybe we had run across a moonshine still. Yeah. And that that ran across our mind too but the one thing that you know the majority of hunters

the majority are very polite and caring and nice people. However, when you run, you know, if three of them are nice and the fourth one is a bad one, they're usually pretty bad. And for the person to be throwing stuff at my partner, this was probably a bad guy, and we had that in our mind. But we still, none of this would add up as to what takes place.

Yeah. But the main thing we had going on in our mind is we had a hunter that was trying to run us out of his area. And Harry wasn't going anywhere, and I certainly didn't want to go anywhere because we had a pretty nice campsite. And so, yes, that's what was going through our mind is we was going to have to deal with some local guy that was overzealous. I mean, you hear the stories all the time of where a hunter gets mad at the other hunter. and takes a shot at him. And so that was... Dick Cheney.

Yes. Yeah, Dick Cheney. Yeah, Dick Chene. It doesn't do well to go, honey, with Dick. No. Not at all. Not at all. He'll make you apologize to him.

Yes. And then you have to apologize for getting shot. That's good. That's a good one. I don't think that will ever, that story will ever be forgotten in America. At least the people that by age and older. Yes. Yes.

And I won't let them forget either. No. Yeah, we got to keep that one circulating. Yes. And so we, we had all these things, you know, all these things going through our mind. And so we're up at our campsite and we're having a good time. And, you know, it's time to, you know, we two growing old fellers and we're, it's starting

to get time to eat. And we've got to camp going. We've got some camp stew. And we're looking forward to eating. And we're discussing. And I do at some point begin to tell him that, you know, I run across a guy in a gilly suit. And so we're discussing all these things as two hunters.

do and um but you know we're we're we're too overgrown overconfident and you know I just have to tell you man uh being police officers we yeah it's just nonchalant ain't nobody going to run us off and uh the guy I was with it's like ain't nobody going to run this man off you know and I was with him and they got to beat him first before they get to me because I know my partner it was kind of that kind of idea. But one thing led to another, and as we're in camp, it's by now it's just total black darkness. And to understand, you just can't hardly see that if you walk away from the fire, and I had a tiny kerosene lamp going, and it was just an old-fashioned 1960s old little bitty

red kerosene lamp. So it's dark, man. It is real dark. And I had grown up going to Lamb Between Lakes with my family and grandparents, and we fished and hunted. So darkness wasn't anything to be afraid of. Soon the worm would turn, as they say. And we began to, as we settled in and was getting ready to eat, we began to have some objects. We had a rock wall behind us that we had chosen this area.

and boy, what a mistake that was, but we had chosen area because there was a solid rock wall behind us, and we felt like that would give us protection from the weather or from any type critters that might come out. And so we had some objects come in on us. And at first it started out extremely light, like a little B6, 8-inch twig come off the top, and, you know, raccoons, possums, anything could be water,

walking on the ridge above us and just didn't give it no thought. And the first thing that come off that ridge that really scared me was a pretty good size tree. And it was probably about six to eight foot long. And it just, it, it failed. And we wrote it off. We wrote it off thinking that it had failed off of it. We're standing and we're talking and we're looking at each other and we're starting.

starting to add up and we are slow country boys we're starting to add up that we're being harassed and that's all there is to it and uh as we're talking i noticed something to the right of our camp i'm standing looking at the wall uh the wall would be west and behind me would be east and uh no i got that wrong north south east and west so to the east of our camp we had to several huge oak trees and I saw something and what I saw fully convinced me that there was a individual standing behind that tree smoking a cigarette because I saw a small red what I perceived to be a glow and I had seen people many times in my work where when someone is smoking a cigarette and they're trying to either cup it in their hand

or they're trying to hide behind a tree and smoke a cigarette, that at this point I really felt like that, okay, the hunter or hunters are coming in on us and they're watching us and probably getting ready for us to go to sleep. And one thing led to another and Harry sees it, I see it. And Harry says, man, there's somebody standing over behind that tree. and at some point my Alpha Mel kicked in and I realize, you know, I'm 100 miles from my jurisdiction, but the training kicks in and says, hey, Sheriff's Department, we are armed and you don't come into a man's camp like this at this time of the night.

And I demanded the person to expose himself or come out and talk to us. and I got no response. There was nothing. And it seemed like that the, it was, time was speeding up and things would soon escalate from that. At some point, we both saw what would lead us to believe two men behind the tree. Because now I've got two red glowing objects, and that oak tree was a massive oak.

and on each side of it is a glowing object. It never occurred to me at that single time what I was seeing was someone an animal peeking out from both sides of that tree and in fact would be two. And it was the glow of eyes. It just did not register to me at that given time. That's when we heard something on the ridge above us. So I've got something.

to the east of my camp. I've got something north of my camp on the ridge, and the noises are beginning to get louder. But above us, we have a rock that got hurled, and we could actually hear the rock, an object coming towards us. It comes off the top of the ridge, and it comes down, it lands closer to,

to my friend, but it just hits and it thumps right in front of us. And it is a massive rock. I've estimated a 30 to a 50 pound rock. And that's one I. It just, yes, amen. By this time, that is scary. Yeah. That is just, it just blew me away.

And I'm like, honestly, it's like, they're trying to kill us. And whoever's doing it is incredibly strong to launch something like that. To launch something of that thing. It's bigger, bigger than a basketball, and it hits. And it hurls, it hits. And when it hits the ground, you felt it. It was just a big thug. I look at Harry.

He looks at me, and by this point, he's screaming, you know, what the heck. And again, we're men, so we're not using our manners. And we're screaming. We're saying a few choice words that, and this is the part when it gets really hard for me to talk about. But that is when that we had a noise come in by those oat trees that was just, Tony, it was hideous and it was a growl. And it was a growl and it was so intense that it rattled the inside of my chest cavity. And it just was just, it was hideous, I mean, I've been on the farm, you know, all my life, and I've seen all different kinds of farm animals.

I've hunted bear, of hunted deer. I've seen all kinds of different things. This was not a typical growl. I've heard bear growls. That's not what this was. And it was so intense that it did something to me, and I could tell that it was affecting my friend. and it rattled the inside of my body and I began to notice that it caused my heart to speed up and it was pumping and just I was getting really excited but it was an uncomfortable feeling

that I cannot describe but it was like it affected my breathing rate it was affecting how my heart and I began to feel nauseous I began to feel nauseous I began to feel very sick to my stomach and it became more intense and then it was almost like I couldn't hear the growl but I could still feel it inside of me and it got terrified

it was terrifying that's when I felt like I was frozen that I could not move I could not move my legs I couldn't turn around I could see Harry beside of me and he was in the same shape. And as a matter of fact, I noticed, and it must have been me as well, but when I looked

at my friend, I could tell that he was slumped in his shoulders and was kind of looking straight down. And so all this is going on, and I could still hear objects and things around me, but if you've ever had what, I guess, what you call tunnel vision, and that's what I felt like like I had tunnel vision. Things were sped up around me, but yet I was in slow-mo. I was just in slow motion and could not do anything. That's when I heard something come in on the trail beside us.

The same trail that I had used to walk in from my walk beside the creek, and the creek come up behind our camp. Well, there was something coming. I could hear the steps. I could, to be honest, I felt something coming. It was a feeling that I cannot describe, and it felt like, hey, something is coming. And in the fire glow of the camp and in the lantern, which was adjacent to us, I could see movement. And I felt something, and I kept looking, and I'm looking, and I'm catching something walking in, and it is bipedal.

And I guess the thoughts of is this beast, is this man? I don't know what that it is. And as it begins to get closer, I see a bipedal, caned type of wolf-like beast. Two legs. And it's walking towards me. I can't move. I can't use my legs. I can't use my arms.

This intense feeling, I'm almost can't. breathe. It is sped my rate of breathing up like I had run a race. And this thing's getting closer to me. And as it gets closer to me, I notice the ears on it are erect and they're like pointed towards me and it's staying outside the glow of the fire, but it's getting closer and backing away, coming back, going back and forth. And it's pacing left and right. And then it walks in. And as it walks in, I can see this thing sniffing the air. And it's almost as if it's sniffing me. And I look back now, I wonder if it was trying to sniff fear. And then it grins at me. This thing exposes its teeth. And by this point, it comes in close enough within 15 to 25 yards

and it exposes itself. And I'm seeing something that should not exist. This thing does not exist on this earth. Is it a man in a costume? Is this a hoax being played? Is it a joke? All these things going through my mind. But you've got to also understand what is affecting my body.

There's something not right with my body. Can't move. Can't do anything, and this thing's getting closer. The only thing I could think of, the only thing I could think of at the time was my religious upbringing. And I'm thinking, whatever this is, it's going to take me out. It's going to eat me or kill me. And I began to pray, and I began to pray.

And I pray the shepherd's prayer, David's prayer, the Psalm 23rd. and I began to pray. And when I began to pray, I just felt like I was regaining my mind back, but I could see this thing, and it was not moving closer. Now, I'm praying in my mind. I'm not praying verbally yet.

But this thing's staring at me. I'm staring at it, and I'm saying the prayer, and then I began to verbally pray. And I, you know, I began to pray. pray hard and louder and louder. Lord is my shepherd, I shall not fear.

And by God's grace, I felt stronger. The intensity was still there, but I'm like, if it eats me, it eats me or whatever. But I'm beginning to gain what I felt at the time. I began to feel strength. and I began to feel stronger and I felt I don't know if it was my hands or my leg that moved first but I moved

I no longer was like a child that was so afraid to get out of its bed to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night I felt stronger and at some point my senses come to me and I moved

and when I moved my training kicked in and I retrieved my forearm with my right hand. And I had on my possession, it actually was my department-issued weapon at the time, and I pulled my firearm, and I pointed it at this creature.

And when I did, the creature moved backwards. This beast, this, this demon, whatever I was seeing that should not exist, it moved. And that told me that this animal was intelligent. It was something to the animal.

It moved backwards. And I'm standing there and I've got the firearm. You have to understand that we are trained and we know. I mean, in a millisecond, you've got to make decisions. When you let off a round and it leaves the end of your weapon, you've got to know where that round is going to. You've got to know what your target is. you've got to know, is that a man, is it an animal?

And I was real hesitant to pull that trigger. I still could not, I just couldn't fathom that this was anything but a man because it looks so much like a man. And I couldn't pull the trigger. And I lowered my gun. And when I lowered my gun, there's creature advanced on me. The beast come closer and started walking towards me. and I felt at that point it's a given. It's paid for.

It's still approaching me. I'm trained to protect myself. I've got someone behind me. I've got to take care of too. All these things are going through my mind. Everything I've described to you and has taken me three minutes, five minutes. This is what a policeman has to make up his mind in milliseconds. I fired twice.

I raised my firearm and I discharged two rounds. a tack-tack, almost sound like one. At the same time I shoot simultaneously, whether if it was a sympathetic reaction or what, the man behind me, Harry discharges his double-barrel shotgun. So I fired two rounds, he fired two rounds,

but when I fire my two rounds, poof, the creature that was in front of me, I don't know where it went. I heard noises going up the wall, but I didn't see. It was almost as if this thing just dissipated. Yet I heard noises going up the wall. To this day, I don't know what happened and where it went to.

But behind me, when my partner discharges his shotgun and he fires two times, I hear a squall. I hear a scream. So behind me, I've turned around at this point. I'm still trying to cover from that angle. I'm hearing something above us again. I'm hearing the screams or squall of something that sounds like a cross between a pig and some hideous animal. We've got a solid cane break that is behind these trees that runs along the creek. And I'm seeing the cane just there's something going crazy in the cane.

I also hear my. my partner running. At this point, he snatched up some stuff that was in the camp, and he's left me. See you, Martin. See you, Bubba. I'm leaving you. And so Bubba is gone, man. Bubba, he's left Martin, man.

Wow. And so, I don't know what think or do, and it's comical looking back now, but I'm frightened out of my wits in. The only thing I think of is, hey, if he's leaving, I need to go with him. And so I've still got my firearm in my hand. And you have to understand 32 years of age at that time. So I'm running with my firearm. I say I remember, but honestly, I don't.

I don't know how I cleared the bumper on the pickup truck. But I was into the back of the pickup truck immediately. Guns still out. Gun in my holster, I don't know. But I felt like I still had my firearm, my handgun. and I get in the back end of this pickup truck. And I hear Harry hit the ignition and he cranks up this old big Dodge truck is very loud. And he cranks it up and he's trying to get her going.

And in fact, he's rocking back and forth. And I've got my hand and I'm beating on the top of the roof of this thing. Hurry up, hurry up, saying all kinds of things. and then it hits me that's emergency break. And I tell him to pop the break. And he pops the break at the same time as he starts to move, he cuts his headlamps on. He cuts his headlamps on and then the realization as to what is taking place.

Got creature over here that come in on my backside that came in off the creek and followed me in. That is a wolf, werewolf, human-looking thing. we got stuff over here in a tree and a cane that possibly has been shot I got something up on top of the ridge and then the headlights come on and when the headlights come on

it's bright enough that 100 to 150 yards out in the middle of this corn patch where Harry in fact had been hunting that day here's the man in the gilly suit but it's not a gilly suit and it's not one there's two creatures and these things are hideous and when I tell the story I don't normally tell the entire story because most people don't want to hear everything but when I say that these

things are not what you depict on TV and it's there is it's not the patty of California and the Gimlin film these things were hideous the headlights hit them the biggest one is standing on two legs. The second one that was beside the creature, and I can't sell if they were male or female, but the smaller Bigfoot Harryman jumps down on all four. It just sinks to a crawl. Hold on a second. Bigfoot?

Oh, yeah. It's total. I'm sorry. I'm pretty worked up by this point telling the story. No, it's fine. These are not. these are not when I describe the other in detail and I let you know this is a wolf-like creature a beast or a half-man half-something when the headlights turn on I've got an eight-foot

hairy man what I call a hairy man or a big foot that are not caned caned lupa's werewolf anything like you've ever seen or is drawn as a dog man these are bigfoot Wow. But they are not bigfoot, man. They are not pretty big foot. Like you see, Patty waving at you as she walks away. These things are hideous, ugly looking. The tallest, the biggest one is staring straight at me, and I'm seeing teeth.

And I'm, I'm, whether if I'm imagining the look on the face or if it's what I saw, it was not friendly. and I got the feeling that this thing that was staring at me, I felt like there was such sheer hatred and I could feel what this thing was looking at me. He didn't want to share his lunch. He wasn't there to get a banana. Whatever this creature was was sheer hatred. And the one that had ducked down to the ground,

the only description that I can give you is just, the one on the ground was either frightened or younger because of the headlights coming on and it was a younger one that was frightened, or if he was going to an attack phase because he went down on all fours. At some point that I'm sitting and looking at this, and I don't, I never talk about this part because this is a part that is pretty private for me. but Scott Carpenter goes into something and others have too that they speak of mine speak. But I got some type of a message that I felt and then I read just as clear as my mind as if I watched a newspaper. This time at some point my partner has put it in bark and has thrown the truck in gear and has turned the headlights away from these two hairy beasts that's out in the corn patch.

I got all this stuff that is, if you can just imagine, cumulatively, all of it together. He decides it's time to make a mass tactical retreat, and he's got the car going, the truck going, and we're going out through this field, and if we could see this place, the description of, of you needed a tiger tank to come out of there. But we were in an old four-wheel drive. And as he's getting out, I'm looking for these two creatures in the corn patch. I'm looking for whatever is raising cane in the cane patch. I'm looking to see if something's going to fly.

I mean, just grow sprout wings and come off that ridge. And I'm still looking for this other cat that was over on the other side of the fire. I'm terrified, man. I am terrified. and as he leaves, he bumps into something and I hear him screaming. I later find out from him that he's screaming. I got one. I got one.

I'm looking towards the camp and whatever these things are, are going through our camp. And they are tearing that camp to bloody pieces. I see parts of the tent, the canvas, and the tarp that was on it is just being ripped to pieces. I've got the fire glowing and I'm seeing the same thing that went up the ridge, the same thing that was in front of me. I'm seeing a canine-eyed creature that is standing on two legs, half man, half wolf, half something, and it's ripping our camp apart. I got the stuff in the cane patch and the cane that is beside of us.

It's running alongside of the truck. That's what's focusing my attention. when he hits something. He hits something that goes down the right side passenger side of this pickup truck. And I hear it. But I've just, it's not, I got too much going on.

It's not registering that this thing's trying to get in the truck or in the back end with me. So he hits the creek, bottoms out, comes up, and we tear out of the camp. And we start hitting for the trace. Some point, mile a little bit further,

I've been beating on banging on top of the truck. My friend was an excellent pursuit driver at work. He was well noted, so he was a good driver. But he was by this point, he's just lost control. He's driving too fast, scary, and I'm beating on top the roof. Stop and let me in. I wanted inside that truck, and I wanted to ride with him. Somewhere at some point, he does let me in, and he is tearing out of,

of land between the lakes, and he is heading towards the south check station, towards Dover, Tennessee. I finally get him calm down enough to where that I'm telling him, head and stop at the ranger station. And Harry's arguing with me, and we're having a confrontation like we've never had before. He's not stopping at any ranger station. He's going home. He's not going to report this.

He's not going to talk about it. it and we're going back and forth and we're probably a good 20 to 30 minutes away from the ranger station which is the south end of it and at some point i just tell him and i demand that he's going to the ranger station because this is what we do we need to report this i've discharged my firearm he's discharged his weapon we've had some kind of beast come into our camp and uh the rangers need to know about it i'm just I'm just locked in. We got to tell somebody.

There was nobody at the station. We get to the Ranger Station. There was an old 1990s, two-door, the Jeep, they used to run. It's in the parking lot. The lights are dim. And as typical, there's no one there after dark at that time. And I still don't think they manned the south or the north in the late evening

at night. It's typical. So, I get back in the truck after we stop. I look around. I look inside the building, get back in the truck. He's even more bound, and he's just determined that we're not telling nobody. We're getting the heck out of Dodge.

At some point, again, I make strong demands. We're not leaving. We will come back in the morning. He reluctantly, very reluctantly, agrees. and finally we travel back to the area where this has actually taken place, but we remain on the trace. And we get within a few miles of this heading towards the North Station, and we find a field off the side of the road

where we think we can see for a long distance, if anything is coming and going, and we park for the night. And we pull way off the road on top of a hill, and Harry shook, I'm shook, we're both sick. And I'll be honest with you. You know, it's not a good thing to talk about, you know, on film or anything like you at. And I address a little bit of it in the book, but we have used, we've used the bathroom on ourselves. Harry has done both one and two, and I have urinated on myself and probably come close to doing number two.

but we're wet, we're dirty. Harry has thrown up a couple times during the night, and we're filthy, man, and we're all so hungry, and we sit there in that field all night long. Harry stretches out across the bed of the truck on the inside. I'm in the bed, he's in the front of it, and I just get on top of the truck, and I sit on the truck the rest of the night,

and, I mean, I'm on guard duty. I do not sleep. Harry's on the inside of the truck with the windows rolled up and the door's locked. He finally stretches out and gets some sleep. All through the night, I'm not able to rest. There's no activity. There's nothing on the trace. I can see the main highway.

And I'm watching, hoping to see if either a marked patrol unit, Ranger unit goes by for anybody. But there's nothing. It's dead. At some point light comes and we both get up and we decide to clean ourselves up some and that's what we did. We cleaned up and I gave him pretty stern talking to about, you know, we've got to go and report this. And so two or three hours go by, it's probably nine, ten o'clock in the morning and we're standing outside the truck. When we look down, we're on the passenger side of the truck and on the passenger side of the truck.

and on the passenger side of the pickup truck, we have three heavy marks with a fourth mark coming down the side of the truck and comes down the side of the truck, and you can see where it stops at the bumper where it hung the bumper. And either it clamped on to the side of the truck or he hit it and it forced that. I don't know what caused it, but he had three distinct claw marks that came down the truck with a fourth light one. And we looked at that and we both were very shaken.

And so we got ourselves together and we get inside the truck. And that's when we head to the ranger station. And we're a few miles from the station, but we get there within a very few short minutes. And to our shock and surprise, when we get closer to the ranger station, It is a flurry and a world of activity. And it's still early in the morning. It's 9 or 10 o'clock in the morning, man. There's no way that there should be that many visitors.

There's no way that it's going to have that much activity. I mean, you're in what most people look at. You're in Jellystone Park and people have come in there using the bathroom or to get a map or buy a T-shirt. This place, the parking lot's full. Both sides of the road is full. on the north and the south side lanes, there's vehicles parked on both sides of the road,

and the parking lot is full. And we look at each other, and we're kind of discussing and we're figuring out that this can't be good. There's something, there's something that's taken place. And the closer that we get to the Ranger Station, and I convention to pull in, there's two, possibly three news, uh,

vans and the bigger trucks. And they've got their little telescopes up. And this is 1990s where you had the big satellite thing. Mm-hmm. And these vehicles are parked all around in the parking lot. And there's what I know from being in law enforcement. There's news reporters everywhere. Like something has taken place.

And, um, there's marked and unmarked vehicles all over the place. and there's even a vehicle sitting in the parking place that I look and I realize that that is some type of canine, not canine officer, but like a search and rescue or rescue squad with a truck cargo on the back for dogs. And there are dogs in this thing. And there's a lot of officers that are standing beside the building and all this, that and other. So there's just give you a general idea of what we ran into. Harry doesn't want to walk in, so I elect myself a spokesperson and I walk in and I finally get

someone's attention. There's, again, a flurry of activity on the inside of this place. And I said, hey, we had an incident in our camp last night. And I said, we had some type of a creature or something, somebody dressed up to come in our camp. And the guy freaks. You could tell he's the ranger guy in charge. and he tells me to be quiet and takes me off to the side and says,

we'll talk somewhere else. And the people are looking at me and there was some folks behind the counter. And you can tell they're staring me down too like, would this guy see? But this guy didn't want to hear it. He did not want me and he certainly didn't want me talk about it in the foyer where people could hear. And so this went on for a few minutes that he gets me.

me off to the side and he says, so what happened? And I said, listen, man, I'm active duty patrol unit. I'm off duty out of Robertson County. I said, my partner's outside. And I began to give him the description of everything and break it down. And he said, well, we've had some bear activity and I'm sure that that's probably what

come in on you. But, you know, you guys are not supposed to be hunting bears. And I mean, he's just laying this store. out on me that you guys have possibly killed shot and killed a bear out of season. You don't have tags, all this kind of stuff. And I'm looking at him and I'm listening to him. I feel like that he's talking to me like I'm an idiot. Yeah.

And so this goes on a few minutes. And I finally had enough. I said, hey, man, this is not what is taking place. And I said, we had some type of an animal that it's not supposed to exist that has come in on us. and all these things. So he ends up taking my ID and he's got a separated. My partner's outside and there's another ranger outside talking to him, getting a story from him.

Then as I'm standing there talking to this cat, my partner, Harry, takes and he takes the other guy out to the truck. And at this point, I can only imagine what is being said between them. And so Harry decides he's going to say, hey, you don't believe me, come out here and look at our truck. You know, something food barred our truck. And so they're looking at the truck and the guy shaking his head and pointing and they're going back and forth. The other guy I'm talking to, he has another officer stay with me and he's taking our credentials.

He wants to see firearms and all this kind of stuff. He walks over the truck. He goes in and he calls my immediate supervisor and gets a hold of, he actually gets a hold of our sheriff. and at that time, the sheriff talked with him. I find out later when I get back, and they get into a pretty good shouting match. And he tells the guy, said, hey, man, these are two, his words and what was told to me, this is two of our finest deputies over there. And if they say something happened and what they said happened, then you need to listen to them.

And the guy threatens that he's going to actually arrest me, especially me, because I've talked back to him, to be honest with you. and he's going to arrest me for poaching and being in possession of a handgun, not supposed to be in the park. And so I later find out and discover that the fight ensues between my boss, my sheriff, and this guy, and the sheriff tells him, hey, they're supposed to be armed seven days a week anywhere within the state of Tennessee. and if you'll look at their back of their identification, that's exactly what it says.

So they basically agree to disagree that they'll have to fight over that later, that even as a police officer, that we didn't have the right to have handguns, which he probably was right on a federal scale. So that's how the story basically ends at that point. At some point, he gets very upset and gets mad at me, and we escalate quite a bit. and he takes a break and walks away from me. Now, there's a point in time where I've had enough myself.

But I do look up and I actually see some friendly faces. And what I tell people is this is at one point I was a very noted individual in this state. And the reason being is not only because of what I did for a living, but because I was an elected officer for the state fraternal. police. And so I knew police officers from all over the state, from Memphis to Knoxville to all points, the southern, northern points in the state of Tennessee. And I actually knew a state trooper that was standing there. And I went over and began to talk with a state trooper, and I noticed that one of the canine officers that was on search and rescue was, in fact, a local sheriff's

department, but he also worked for search and rescue. And what they told, me, the basic story is that there was two turkey hunters that was walking through a camp early in the morning, and they had discovered a man that had been pulled out of his tent and had been predated on, had been killed. And they came back and reported the incident, and that's why there was such a flurry of people and what had taken place. So sometime as soon as the sun come up, two turkey hunters actually walking. across this cat that was hunting and was in the tent and had been predated on and had been

killed, eaten alive. And so they began to tell me the story. And by this time, man, to be straight with you, I'm seeing red. I've done been talked to like I was stupid and been fed the line of stuff. My partner comes back. And what he is told, now this is the part that would enrage anybody. Harry was told that there had been an armed robbery in one of the camps, in one of the, not just camps, but inside of a campground itself, and that someone had been hurt. And that this had nothing to do with us, that we were just basically two city folks that had come out there and maybe had seen a bear or got too overly excited and we were seeing stuff.

man this all this together and you add all these things together Tony I was not a happy camper or happy man finally the head guy in charge walks over to me and we have some more words and I finally said something to him look I'm tired of the BS I'm tired of the bovine scatology that you're feeding me I said I've hunted bear I've hunted all around several states in the United States

and at some point I tell this cat, you know, that I'm fed up with his stuff. And so he gives me my credentials back, my identification, driver's license, department stuff. And he basically tells me to leave the park and that he's, I'm a very lucky person that they didn't arrest both of us for hunting bear out of the season, which I might add to you, Tony, there was no bear season in the state of Tennessee for this part of the state at any given time. The bears were not even supposed to exist in land between the lakes in 1993 to the general public. And I made a statement to him. A couple things were said back and forth, and I told him I'd be happy to leave his company. And that's where the story ends as far as us leaving land between the lakes that day.

There is further story, though, that takes place when we get back. And that is, your supervisor had some stories about, I guess Bigfoot, right? My sheriff actually, the day that we had actually come back, and I'd be straight with you, I didn't even want to go into the office, but I'd got a call early that Monday morning that I needed to report to the sheriff's office and speak with the sheriff, and he wanted to run down. After it was all said and done,

and he had told me everything that had taken place between he and the LBL folks, he had been a state trooper before he was the sheriff. and he had been down into, he'd hunted all over. He was an avid bear hunter and deer hunter. But when he was younger and before he became sheriff, that he had another state trooper friend of his that he graduated with through the Tennessee Academy had been out on the weekend and had been hunting

and actually had observed a bigfoot that he'd crouched down and was drinking water in one of the river systems. And I'll be honest with you, I don't remember exactly where they were, but I think it was some James Town or possibly on the other side of Catusa somewhere. I don't know. But he basically said that because of what they had seen, they had done what the normal person would do, and that was tell nobody. And the reason being is because they were fresh state troopers. And if they come back, telling the story that they had been out in the woods hunting,

and they had seen a big foot in the state of Tennessee that they'd probably end up losing their jobs. So he didn't tell anybody. But the sheriff was a very good guy, and he was just a super duper. He was a police officer's or a deputy's best friend. And to be honest with you, I had hunted bear and deer all over, and I continued a good relationship until he passed away. the sheriff was a very fine individual. Yeah. Okay, today's sponsor is SimplySafe.

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Go today and claim a free indoor security camera plus 20% off your order with interactive monitoring. That's Simplysafe.com slash Confessionals. There's no safe like Simplice. Well, this story is crazy. It is... It's something that just... It's hard to even, like, wrap your mind around at times. I remember you talking about in the book, how when he hit the lights, the two creatures in front,

I just, I glossed over the part where the Bigfoot part is I, in my head I was thinking, Dogman, just it all blend together, you know? What do you make of that? I mean, like, we don't need to get into like your theories and stuff like that right now. But pertaining to your encounter, do you think that Bigfoot and Dogman were in the same area together, or do you think they just happened to be in the same area? Do they have, do they both have the same mission that night, but the dog man got there first? I was convinced of a lot of things.

And looking back then, but looking back as to that night and my thoughts on it, and then I'm on a flash forward. And I had an individual asked me one time, a person that I respect greatly. and I will never forget this question because it really made me think. And when they shot the movie American Werewolves and I was talking with Seth Breedlove, Mr. Seth asked me, he said, can you give me any explanation as to, is there, is there an explanation to what you saw? And I thought that was a very good question because I have none. I have no idea what I saw, and especially that night I had no explanation.

Flash forward, and I come out of the closet, and I tell my story for various reasons. And I think about what he asked me about why was Bigfoot there and what had taken place. What were the Bigfoot in conjunction with the dogman? or I even had one individual asked me, and I was convinced at one point maybe Bigfoot was there or the hairy man was there to protect me. Now, sitting here in front of you, it is my thought that the two Bigfoot,

because of when we discuss and we think about the encounter and how it began on the deer, or the animal trail that I was following, the noises that took place, the whistles, and the fact that whatever I saw in the woods stopped as I walked and stopped, and then it would stop as well.

Logically, I think that it was almost as if the Bigfoot commanded the animals. And at first, I would have never said that. But when I look back now, and we come forward with what I have learned one of the greatest things that scares me even worse than the encounter of

Joe Doyle, Hill Ben Holler was the first one to bring this to my attention. He said, you need to watch hunted 4-1-1 and you need to look at David Plytis' movie where he describes a man by the name of Tom Messick, who was an avid hunter, an avid outdoorsman and had been hunting all of his life.

When he went out with his sons and his hunting partner, a neighbor that had been friends for years, and they go out into the deep woods, and they go on a hunting deer drive. And Mr. Messick had been into those woods many, many times. When he got time to end the camp and to stop the hunt that night and everybody meet up, he wasn't found they went looking for him they could not find the man but the one distinct thing that came out of this was that some of the party heard this metallic this metal sound in the middle of the woods and they had never heard nothing like it and i remember the interview so so very well that they asked one of the individuals what did you hear and he actually became agitated

because he couldn't describe what it, you know, I heard something. I heard something. And it finally came out that it was a metal or a metallic door, like a door open and closing. That's when I become even more frightened than the encounter itself because I knew, in my opinion, that I had, I don't want to compare it to the loss of a man at all because Mr. Messick and his family deserve answers. They deserve answers. but I look at it that I survived. I don't know why I survived. I don't know if it's because I had to fight syndrome in me or what it was,

but the same noise that I feel like that they heard, I not only heard once, but I heard it twice. And I know that's a long answer to what we're speaking about, but I don't know. It was almost as if these Bigfoot were in command or was in charge of whatever was taking place. Well, I love the fact that you said that because it really, so I don't look at these topics like I did six years ago.

And I have, I've been talking about it a lot recently. I was just telling my wife yesterday, we were talking about you coming into town. And I told her, I said, does it seem like we're getting more dogman stories? is coming in, she's like, we're getting tons more. And I guess it's probably because Exposition Dogman's out and people see it and all that stuff. But my thoughts on these creatures is very multi-layered. You're not going to get me saying it's one specific thing over another. You're not going to get me saying, no, I don't believe that happens. You're not going to get me saying that I believe that only one thing happens.

This is very layered for me, and it's because of all the stories that I've been told, but there's one specific story that I've been talking about more and more recently, and I'm starting a whole new podcast based off of this story. And part of it is the guy who, this story is about his life.

He knows who I am now, and he said that he's willing to talk to me, but it has to be done right timing for his family's safety. Yes. But one thing that he says is that these things come from other realms. Yes. And he said that Bigfoot, and this is according to him,

whether it's his belief from his interaction with the other realm or his knowledge or whatever, but this is what he says. He said that Bigfoot is another form of lichen, which is a werewolf. Yes, yes. And he says that, and that in itself is such a like,

I can almost guarantee you there's somebody that's like, come on, as they heard to say that, you know. But that's what he says, and I can tell everybody, everything that he says has lined up so far. his claims. There have been multiple people that have been able to back up what he's claiming that have seen him do certain things that shouldn't be possible. This guy is much more than just your average human being.

And so when he says that, I listen, you know. And so when you say that you had Bigfoot and Dogman on the scene and you have this sense that the Bigfoot was orchestrating or, I get the this vision in my head of almost like Bigfoot and Dogman are there and the Bigfoot just let the dogman off the leash and it's like go. Exactly. Exactly how I feel. Is that how you feel? I felt like that the metallic noise was almost as if you have to, okay, you have to consider

my path of being a hunter fisherman and mentality. there's nothing in the woods. I don't believe in it stuff. Patty lived in California and Washington, and that's where all Bigfoot were. Nothing over here on this side. And I'd be honest with you, I didn't even think about Bigfoot. Sure.

It just wasn't in my state of mind. And now we flash forward to, I sat in front of you, and I say, I think that the metallic noises opened a door, what that door was, whether it was a portal to another, another dimension, another place, another world. But it was like, it's simple this. I used to hunt when I was a child. And I had a man that lived across from us to take me bird hunting.

And we would let the dogs out of the trunk of the car. And I said trunk of the car. And they would come up out of the old car we drove. The hunter released his hounds. And we go bird hunting. I make the same parable to Bigfoot shows up, opens the portal, opens the door, he gets out, and there are two of them, because if you remember my story, I get whistles behind me, I get whistles in front of me, as if I have two hunters that have released their hounds on me. Why I was not attacked at that point, I don't know if it was because I've even had people tell me that it was due to my religious story. statue that it was because something within me for whatever reason I wasn't well I just tell you one

person has told me that because of my strong faith is what is the only thing that kept me from being a victim I don't know but I do know that I agree with you then I think that it was the two hunters Bigfoot and those were their bird dogs you know there's a lot of people that you know maybe through their own interactions or from what they've gathered through these different types of stories, they draw the conclusion that Bigfoot and Dogman do not get along. I'm sure you've heard that before. It's interesting because maybe the perception is just off. Maybe the perception is off. Maybe in the chaos of a moment. Because the only way you could draw a conclusion, I would imagine that Bigfoot and Dog Man don't get along is that you see the interaction. But if you're on the

outside of a relationship and you have no idea what a human being is. Say it's aliens, right? Aliens landed on our front lawn and they see you yelling at your dog to come inside the house. And the dog's not listening or whatever. You get fresher to your dog. Come on, you're trick a mutt. Let's go, you know. In the house. Right. And so if you're not familiar with the relationship, maybe it could look like they don't get along. But maybe we have it really twisted and maybe there is an actual order to it. And that would be

absolutely groundbreaking as far as I would think. And then with what I've been told and what I've been looking into, it would make a lot of sense because of if they're both forms of lichen, maybe they just have different

roles. Also, the metallic sound, I'm so, like, I'm actually really glad you brought up the word portal and not me because I always bring up portals because I think, like, I think that portals have a big, big role as to why the world is really weird. Yes. And there's, there's really things going on in other realms. They do access our realms and, and we access those realms, realms too, scientifically, but also there are people in this world that can do these things.

And I have access to somebody right now that has experience opening portals for these types of people. And so I want to ask them about this because, and it's not necessarily the absolute 100% answer, whatever I get from them, but I want to ask,

I want to ask if there's a sound associated to portals opening and closing. Because what you were saying is sounding like a metal door opening. And the other person saying that, the thing that really kind of stood out and popped in my head was when I first started podcasting, this was really popular. And it's not so popular anymore. But one thing I've learned over the last six years of me doing this stuff, everything is in cycles.

I get people sending me videos of things that have been out for two, three years. It was really popular two or three years ago. it comes back around and people like, did you see this? I'm like, yeah, that's like three years old, but it makes its rounds. So I totally expect this topic to start getting popular again at some point. Yes. The sky trumpets. Yes. So people claiming that they hear trumpets in the sky, and I think they say trumpets because they don't know how else to describe it, but if you think about the sounds that you hear on those YouTube videos of people saying, where is that sound coming from? It sounds. like a big piece of metal scraping the ground, like a, like the cement ground or something. Is that how you would describe the metallic sound? It was, yes, it was like a metal door scraping concrete or scraping a hard fixed.

It wouldn't have been just ground. It was almost like it was scraping concrete or rock or, well, not concrete. Let's say rock. Two things. two things before they they passed this old guy's brain. Bigfoot dogman. The thoughts and guys, please you guys forgive me because I love you to death, but I've got friends on both sides of the aisle.

I've got the apist. Yeah. I just know that this thing is another form of life being that is next to humanoid. Sure. You know, and it is not. But the biggest thing I want to make certain, and I am living proof right here sitting in front of you that there is no state line on land between the lakes that dogmen, because I've heard this and you have heard it too, dog man do not reside in the north of the park or the south of the park. Bigfoot doesn't have control on one end of the other, and there's this little fancy line. down through there and there's someone

a policeman that says, Bigfoot, you stay over here and dogmen, you stay over here. And that's a big fight. That's segregation, guys. That's segregation and it's fine. It's far. Yeah. And, but this is a huge fight that we will hear

investigators, paranormal or cryptid investigators that say, oh, yeah, this guy's crazy. There's no Bigfoot in that side of the park or there's no dog men. And that was one of the things. The second thing is this is definitely, I want you to remember this because I don't think you've said you've seen it. But something has just occurred that I feel that is very important, very important,

and it is hell been holler, have just been to an undisclosed area where they're not wanting, they don't come out and tell you where they're at, and for good reason. But they've just had an encounter where I believe, after watching their show, I believe they were privy that they saw. The name of the show is Hell Ben Holler, The Burning Light. And I believe that Joe and Jesse saw a portal and saw it open. And they actually saw the images of someone coming in or coming out. And it was such a encounter that they made the correct decision not to approach the portal or

this light that they saw, and they decided to back out and leave and come back later, which I think was a very good, wise decision. I don't know what they would have encountered that night, but they actually, in my opinion, they saw a portal open. They saw the creatures walking about in front of the light of this where they had come in or come out. I don't know which. But those are two things that when you were speaking, yeah, I'm 100% on board.

And as far as, again, my apologies to all my friends on both sides of the aisle, I am inclined to believe after the more that I have taken from the first time I stepped out of the dark and come out with my story because I wanted to, my agenda is to save lives. I know something's wrong in the parks. And I'm not the only one. You can see anything to do with the greatest man I respect. is David Politis. We have all these people missing in the parks.

But where I'm going with this is there is something taking place and it is occurring and it's quite evident to us that the portals must, in my opinion, exist because there's no way of how did Bigfoot get here? How did Dog Man get seen? And are they one in the same? are they one in the same because of the different descriptions we get are they all likened? I'm sorry guys, I just don't bite into this is some type of a humanoid another step on the chain animal that's out in the woods been hidden from us. We would have done found it.

Yeah. You know, and I lean towards that myself. Now, I would say that I'm trying to pull this up here because what you just said. And now my thing is acting all weird. So I'm going to just go to my phone. But it's one of those things where this community of whatever you call this, I don't even like to call in a community because there's so much bickering and arguing. but this group of people that are into these types of topics. Yes. There's been this set way of thinking about things for so long, and you get these fractions of people who are the old school type that's just like, Dogman doesn't exist. Bigfoot does exist, though, but it's only a creature we can't keep up with.

And then from there, you have this evolution of people to the point where you have me, this crazy guy that has a podcast, that's like, oh, yeah, dog man's real, Bigfoot's real flying creatures. there's portals. They go in and out and so do people and, you know, pretty much everything you think is impossible is possible. Like they're like, you know, all the old school guys are like, you're crazy, dude, like you're absolutely crazy. And that's fine. But even during our conversation here while you were telling your story, I got a message on Facebook. And it just, it caught my, it caught my eye.

But the guest that I had put out today, now today's show I put out was Dogman's Interdimensional portals. And it's another guy here in Tennessee, and he had a dream about a dog man. And in the dream, his family's there. His dog man moves towards his family. And so he steps in between the dog man and his family. This thing starts tearing him apart. He comes to sitting straight up in his bed. He sees that he has scratches on his back, handprints on his shoulder. Wow. And, and, And, you know, he really doesn't think much of it. I mean, in all reality, that could be you did it to yourself and your sleep freaking out. Right.

It's very possible. But, and this happened this year in April, here in Tennessee, middle Tennessee, probably around the area you're from. I think he's south middle. But he's out in the woods walking with his son 11 years old, and he sees that thing that he saw in his dream standing right before him and his son. He said it was what he saw. Terrifying. Terrifying.

Yeah. And so his son sees it. He sees it. And it's actually his son that snapped them out of his thing. Like his son's like, we got to go, you know. And they got out, but this thing almost like escorted them out. And I told him on the recording, I was like,

it could have got you if it wanted to get you. Yes. It didn't want to get you or else it would have got you. So it makes you wonder. Both of you, yes. Yeah, it makes you wonder. He would have taken you then. But, um,

His son saw it. He saw it. And we talked about this because how is it possible that you had a dream about something that then appears in this reality? Now, I have a lot of answers and thoughts towards that, that I have to keep it bay for now just because of what I'm working on. But we did discuss this on the show. And it's, I think I'm very, I'm getting to the point where I can say I'm very certain. I'm okay. being wrong with things, guys. Like, like, I'm telling you, but I'm also telling the audience, like, I've said this over the years. I'm literally okay being wrong with things. I've never seen a dog man. I've never seen a Bigfoot. I just accumulate information. I draw assumptions and my opinions on things. If I'm proven wrong, that's fine. But I, from what I have been told, what I'm experiencing, what I'm talking to other people about, and people's stories are intertwining with each other. The more I taught these different types of people, it's becoming more and more apparent to me

that our minds have the ability to be a bridge between different realms Yes, I believe that I don't know how it happened for him but somehow, because he described this what he calls quote unquote a dream where it felt it was more real than what this real is

and that is a very common description amongst the people that I've been talking to it's like you're accessing this realm through a dream state that the dream state itself isn't the beginning and end it's just the bridge to get to where you're going yes and this thing somehow came through the bridge as well when he left that because it wasn't I don't think it was much longer until he saw that thing um and there's so much that goes into it like there's things that he and I talked about off air I can't air sure certainly and I'm just like like, holy cow, like he really, he's really on, he's really on to some of his experience.

So I say all that because the guy who messaged me on Facebook and caught my eye with how it popped up on my screen, he said, let me just pull it up here. Let me give a shout out here. Patrick Lloyd, give him a proper shout out, the guy. He said, if dogman can cause harm in someone's dream, wouldn't you lean towards it being demonic? And I just told him, not all of them. And I know that's not a satisfactory. And he messaged me back. I haven't read it yet.

But I know that's probably not a satisfactory answer for many people, including him. But I don't think that all these things come from this other realm either. I think that maybe some of them that are lineage is from these other realms. But I also think that we are creating these things. I know that we're creating these things. Yes. and there's also a occultic ritual aspect of it. There's people who will do occultic rituals

and they will, like the skin walker type thing. They'll put the skin of a wolf on. They'll do the ritual and they're trying to transform into a werewolf. But here's the thing, whether you believe that's possible or not, what if they're not transforming into a werewolf, but the people who come across them during the ritual fall under the spell and what they see as a werewolf. Yes, yes.

Which is really scary because imagine if that is what was happening to you and then you wind up shooting a person, try explaining that to the police. He was a werewolf. Well, he's not now and you're going to jail. And you're going to jail, man. Locked up, man. Yes. What do you do?

Explain that to a sister or why. Yeah. Explain that to a grand jury, yes. Good luck. Yes. And so, like, we're dealing with some really crazy things. that's one thing that I'm very, very nervous about with this stuff, is that when I was in Kentucky and we were going on the expedition dog man, we were thinking about this stuff. And I was like,

dude, that would be the worst ever if we're out here and we're convinced we're seeing this monstrous beast. Yes. And in the back of our head, we're like, what if it's not, though, and we're just under a spell, do we shoot or not? And it's like, you make that decision. Like, do you shoot? Do you not? And honestly, I was thinking like, hmm, if something happens and we got to shoot and that thing,

that thing turns into a man, we're going to find a nice deep hole to put it in. Have shovel. Have shovel. We'll travel. Yeah. Like, I mean, I'm not trying to go to jail,

guys. I got a podcast on Tuesday, you know? I agree. Yeah. But I kind of went off a little bit there, but it really was really, interesting how you brought up the topic of the portal aspect and this relationship between the

two creatures and how they may not be so different. And it's really interesting because I don't think there's been a whole lot of people, if any, on my show that's brought that relationship up. If it could kind of bite my tongue a lot on that stuff and it takes... It's hard to come forth with something like that. For me, it's not as much as timing. So I can go on and just say everything that I think and whatever I know. But if it doesn't fit the conversation, it's not going to make as much sense. Right. And so I try to bite my tongue a lot of stuff just to wait for the right person to talk to

about it. And I'm glad that we could both get that out today because not only we both know what this topic is and we know what is taking place. But it's hard to bring it for, especially a witness. I have grown as much as like a toddler growing into a full-sized human being in the last five years concerning the topic. So it's easy for me to come out because I'm to the point where it doesn't bother me what somebody thinks of me. I know like the great, and I call her angel, Miss Linda Godfrey, I know what I saw what I saw. Yeah.

And I'll never forget that when she had said that I know what I saw. And so when we're able to actually have a platform to speak of, I think I saw a portal. I do believe portals exist, all the above. Yeah. And actually, this was a subject. I actually wasn't going to bring up, and I don't know if you have the time. We had plenty of time. But something has occurred.

And I was not going to address this because this is in my second book. But I'm going to be careful how I bring this forth, but something has occurred. All this led me to a quest. From 1993, I did not remain totally obscured. I stopped hunting in the LBO, but I continued to hunt in other places. but vision quest I have never stopped investigating I didn't go on air I didn't go out and and make myself known to the general public but I'm the guy sitting in a pair of overhauls drinking a coke and eating pence down at the old grocery store whether if it's down in Grand Rivers or if it was the old Crutcher's grocery store that was on the main trace that was there for all the hunters for for years upon years that would go down and sit and talk about it. And I'm listening and I'm not breaking the confidence of anybody.

I'm just taking in all this information. So from 1993 until this point, today as we're said, I have investigated silently, not ever seeking any recognition or wanting people to know what I was doing. Half the time people telling me stuff didn't even know who or what I was. but something has actually occurred but all this stuff led me to I'm almost completed a second book now but something took place on October the 19th

now several folks that I trust and that I have confided with or I actually have been in the woods with and one is a great gentleman who is a author of many books Dewey Edwards and Dewey Edwards is from my hometown of Robertson County, and he's written many books,

and he's been into the park with me many times. And we have discovered a lot of things, especially in the last six months. Another individual that I have taken into the park, I'm not certain if he would want me to say his name right now, but the two of us were in the park on October the 19th. and of this fall. And we did after, and I keep a running toll,

and I keep a kind of a diary per se, but after 57 investigations or expeditions into the park, myself and another individual ended on the, entered the park on October the 19th, and on our 58th expedition, of the park. We actually saw something. And all I'm going to say right now, because it will be in the book, and I'm not trying to lead

somebody in to buying a book. I'm just trying to say, I'm trying to say is, we saw something that cannot be explained in the same exact general area, because I know that this took place in 1993, this is a hot spot. This is a hot zone. And there is something that is taking place

in this general area of the devil's back on the Kentucky where it leads up to the Kentucky Tennessee side. And I know what I saw. And what I saw, I believe, was a portal opening and a

creature stepping out that was nothing like I'd ever seen. And the individual that was with me I'm going to say his name and I don't think he'd be upset, but Daryl Denton, who was a friend of mine

from my county, he had been a local mayor in the town, one of the cities inside my county. And Darrell was with me, and he saw it first in a crouched spider position. Wait, the creature, whatever it was? The creature was in a spider-style position beside the road. Now, this is the same general area, but it was translucent. Oh, man. And he screamed at me.

He said, do you see it? And I'm trying to actually be straight with you. I'm trying to ignore what I'm seeing. My mind is not registering what I'm seeing. And we saw a creature and something took place that he's told on a podcast that I didn't really, I didn't want to release it because I didn't want the general public to know what had taken place. But something occurred that night and that cannot be explained. and there's no logical way that this occurred other than a portal opened.

It came out, ran across the road behind us, and it was translucent. It was like you could see through it. And this thing was monstrous size. Now, he described it. He said the head was as big as his passenger side door windshield, the door window. and you can imagine. Now, we was on a four-wheel drive truck. I drive big trucks, and the window was this big.

And I can't say exactly what size is just the head. But it was beach ball. I mean, this thing was huge. And it crosses the road behind us. Now, what I'm going to depict to you is it was almost like it was an accidental. I wasn't, we were not supposed to be there. We were not supposed to see it. And it just.

right place, right time, wrong time for whatever we saw, but the right time for us. But the 58th expedition, I'm not in there saying I'm seeing Bigfoot every time or I'm seeing a creature or I'm seeing dog man. 58 times since August of last year that we've been into the park. 58 times. 58 times that I have went into an expedition. Okay. Okay. And so, and then we've got that occurred on October the 19th, and I wasn't going to release it. He released it because he wanted, he just, I know, understand the gentleman, it was such a significant thing, but I wasn't going to, honestly, I wasn't even going to bring it out. He brought it out. So here it is. Here's what we saw. And I could go in greater detail, but in another podcast, he talks about how sick that I become and what happened to me. When, when we saw this creature. Wow.

Okay. And so it did, there was something that took place. And I'll actually tell you off camera. I won't tell you on camera. So. But it did something. It did something that night. First of all, let me tell you something.

We haven't been on camera for about 40 minutes. This camera died over here. Okay. Okay. We have about an hour and 20 minutes of you on camera. And then I think the SD card filled up because I grabbed the wrong one. So I'll just switch it to audio when we hit that point for the video segments. Okay.

But when you publish it in the book, are you going to go into greater detail? I'm very caught. I'm very torn because it's going to be so insane that I don't know if anyone will even believe it. I'll tell you right now. It makes me, you know, here's this guy that has already seen something and land between the lakes. But in defense of this, you have to understand, 58 expeditions into the park. And I've been given witness accounts that led me back into the park to a certain area where we have discovered and have taken detailed photographs and measured things

that we know we have something in the park, and it's leaving these prints that cannot be made. man-made, and all these areas, and then on the 58th expedition, we lo and behold, in the same area, within a mile of my 1993 experience, we have something crouched down beside the road, hidden from us, and to be straight with you, it was as if it didn't think we could see it. because it was in this predator, translucent state that I wasn't supposed to see it. I'm going to send you some shows that you need to listen to of mine. I have talked about him over the time now, but he's a great reference story. JR from episode 309, he was a 1% biker guy.

As a former officer, you know how serious the 1% are guys are. Yeah, they're the real thing. They're the real ones. I'm not going to say what gang he was in because he's very protective of that. But he was one, let's put this way. I was describing it as this. JR was so bad, the 1% bugger gang kicked him out. So he started his own group.

They're like, dude, you crossed the line. What? You know? He was bad of the buyer. And I've met with him. I've been to his home. He's become a good friend of mine. Good guy to have my corner, actually.

Yes, yes, it is. Yeah. But he, long story short, was running from the law, and he was on a property for nine months in Indiana. While he was on that property, he would spend time finding arrowheads, and then he would take him into a town where he would sell him to a guy for 25 cents or something like that, I don't remember. But he's just making some money, you know? And during the time of that nine months stay twice, the last time it scared him so bad that he called the police. or no, he called his mom to come get him, and she said the police were at the house three times that week. He said, I don't care. I'm not staying out here another day. Come get me. He chose to spend 18 months in prison before spending another night on this property.

He wasn't going to stay there any longer. He saw a very large, translucent figure standing there. And he said, when this thing took off, because he said it was like it realized that he could see it. And he said when it took off. Well, you got hair standing up because where you're describing this. Yes. When it took off, he said it took off and all you saw was this tall grass just split and just, and, and, and there, the, the, the, the, the way you described the spider is really, really interesting just because my friend, my good friend, one of my best friends, West German from Sasquatch Chronicles. He was one of the first people to talk about his encounter with a big foot and how. this thing dropped to all four and the only thing he could say is it was like a spider crawl it was like a spider it looked like a spider that's the only way he said it's unnatural but he said that's it's it's like nothing bends its arms or its or its legs like like that you know right but yet we saw it and that's and that's what him and his brother ran into in Washington state like a group of these things one night

and it tormented him for like three hours i think it was um but he always talked he talks he talks about that and people get I wasn't around at that time when he was talking about the stuff and I was coaching college basketball or something um and people apparently gave him a really hard time big foot doesn't do that and that's why I am the kind of person I'm like tell me what you saw I'm not going to tell you it's not possible because I'm learning more and more you're not going to catch me off guard saying it's not possible because I don't know what's possible anymore um and then I would say I was interviewing another person, this one woman, halfway through the recording, she got her sister-in-law on the phone with me because her sister-in-law was picking, I guess,

mushrooms or something like that, about 30 miles away from where Wes had his encounter. And she's like, I don't know what I saw. She refused to call it a Bigfoot. She didn't know what it was. But she's like, it was really big. She said it was on all four walking up the hill. If I remember correctly, she said it turned its head and looked back. it was almost like the head turned all the way around.

Oh my God. And she said it walked like a spider. And that was like 30 miles from Wes's encounter. And so like these are characteristics that are popping up. And so now you're talking about the spider characteristics, the translucent characteristic. And when you, before you even said that, when you were telling your encounter, I even wrote down here that about the Bigfoot, I said Bigfoot got on all four because I wanted to bring up. tell me what it looked like. Did it look like the spider type? Or was it, or when you saw the

Bigfoot get down on all four, you said it was like the younger one or whatever. Did it get on all four almost like a canine or did it have that spider look too? It had the spider look. When it dropped down, when the headlamps came on to the truck and it shined, the bigger one, it was it was like it was not frightened anyway and it was absolutely mad, very angered. But the second, one that I believe in my eyes was younger. It dropped down to all fours into like a spider crawl as if it could just, my description would be as if it could launch itself, that it could just spring up at any second. And what we saw on October the 19th, same thing, except this was much bigger.

and when you said something about the head, the way that it turned, that is the part when I looked at you and just grabbed the table in front and said, wow, this thing on the 19th that we saw, when it turned its head and looked toward me, it was if it just, the whole top part of its head just could just turn all the way around. Like a horror movie. Like a horror movie, something that is not supposed to exist better than Michael Carpenter.

And, you know, better than any of these. I'm sorry, not Michael, but John Carpenter, the horror filmmaker. And so you got a combination of the thing from John Carpenter to something that can not exist, but yet we just seen it. Yeah. and it left performed an act that not only did we see this thing, but it actually did something to us that my partner that was with me that night, Mr. Denton, he got nauseous and he got sick, but when it come over to my side and it was passing behind the truck,

I'm just bring it just bring it right on out right here because I like you and it just needs to be said it was the most obnoxious vile acidic battery smelling like it had blown up inside my vehicle I actually had been convinced that oh we just blew the battery out of the vehicle but it was all over the car all over the truck we were in around the area that was around around us. So whatever took place, whether if it was intentional and this was a self-defense mechanism mechanism from this creature we saw, or did we smell what it smells like when it comes out of the portal? I don't know. But we became, he became sick. My throat closed off.

My eyes went to where I could not see. and I was just gallons of water coming out of my eyes. That's an exaggeration, but my eyes were flooded with moisture coming out of them because of this obnoxious. Now, brother, when I look at you and say, when I grew up in the woods, we used to cut the stink bags out of skunks to put in our people's locker that we didn't like. So, you know, I know what annoxious smells like. I mean, we were country boys. We did some pretty crazy stuff. this was a foul-smelling acidic like a battery had blown up if you've ever smelled a battery

except multiply it 20 times and this occurred and I could not almost couldn't drive the vehicle but we got out of Dodge per se because whatever took place was such a sickening feeling and my throat had closed off I didn't know if I needed to get to a hospital but we remained in the park for the rest, almost the rest of the night. We did not go back to that area, though. I will tell you that I could not take myself back there, and I just could not. But I don't know if any of that makes sense, but when you talk about a portal, maybe this is when the portal opens and it came out of the portal.

Is this possibly a smale or residual something that comes out of that? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, who knows? Or even, you know, wherever it was coming from to the other side, what was the smell environment there? Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. That's incredible.

Well, listen, let's wind this first segment down. This is a long first segment. We're going on two hours and ten minutes of recording. Sure. But before we wind this down and head into the overtime, and the overtime, I want to talk more about, well, we can carry on this conversation again if we, if it organically happens. but I want to talk about some other cases maybe that you've looked into and stuff in your time. But before we do that, I would like to,

you started telling me this story a little bit before we started recording when you first got here. I kind of think it would be the nice way to end the recording. But before we go there, actually, before we go there, actually, no, we'll do that first. Sure, sure. You were telling me about how you, how did you come to the point where you're going to talk about this stuff?

I know you're talking about Elijah. What had occurred, I had remained silent for years. I was never going to come out with this. I had been a police officer at that time for many, many years. And I retired in 2012 because I got hurt in a line of duty. And be honest with you, it's very hard for me to walk. And so this took place. and I was going to remain totally silent,

but what occurred, I had read something. My curiosity had always been with me, and I had read just a little something, and I had asked a question, and I don't even remember whose group it was. It was just some social media group. And an individual whom I would later learn was one of the finest, just upstanding Christian men that I've ever known.

He read my question, and the question was, I don't remember how I worded it, but it sparked in his head. And he knew that I had either had an encounter or that there was something up with me that I had known some type of knowledge for the question that I asked. And so Mr. Johnny Henderson of Crypted Studies Institute, he contacted me on social media. And we started talking back and forth.

And again, man, I'm about as frightened as a brand newborn puppy that's scared of noises or anything. I was not going to tell my story. And he generally, it took some time before I would come out and explain. and it would be hit and miss. I would not tell him in the entire story. I'd just say a little bit, something. I might have been hunting in the woods, and, you know, I saw a little something.

And he just finally got to the point where he said, look, and I realize you're a retired police officer. And I want to keep this between us. And he kept the confidence all those years. He kept it between me and him. But what had happened, we had at one point had planned an accident. expedition into LBL. My wife got sick and got COVID and almost died.

And God rest, Johnny Henderson, his wife had cancer and she passed away. And then he gets COVID and then bless his soul and his family. Some of the finest people you'll ever meet. God bless Johnny, the memory of Johnny Henderson and his family. Just great people.

And so Johnny brought me out. the closet and this is how it took place after mr henderson and passed away eliza contacted me and said you know your story really needs to come out and um still hesitant still hesitant man i knew it needed to come out but uh two things took place two two two more things take place my hunting partner on his deathbed told me to leave his name out of this because his family would be left behind, but he thought that he felt like I needed to tell the story of what happened between us and what, you know, what took place out there, you know. And then a husband and wife on a trailhead in LBL, this was 2019 or 2020, they disappear

on a hike. And it does come out that they've got people out searching for this husband and wife. And if I remember the story correctly, they were on the 10th. the seaside and they found their car and the family knew that the husband and wife were going hiking on a certain area and when they didn't return they made a phone call and certainly they mounted a search and they were never found then the story disappears from the media you will not find anything on the internet you're not going to find anything from any of the tv things and it's classic uh lbL style of hey something happened but no it really didn't

happen and everything just magically disappears and so i heard about this and a matter of fact read about the story going out over the over the media that they had to have this so-called search well they were never found you won't find nothing you can't find their names you can't find nothing so all this in combination elijah picks up the phone and gets me on the telephone and he says hey, I'm working with some good folks. And I said, I want you to, he says to me, I want you to meet some folks. And he says, I want you to meet a young lady by the name of Heather Mosier that works with small town monsters and Seth Breedlove.

And we set up a time and an appointment in a secret location down on this side of LBL, outside the park. And they convinced me to tell my story. and thus breeds the fourth or what gives birth to my story part of it in combination with a lot of other good folks and we tell our stories on American Werewolves. But I was never going to tell this story and I certainly was not seeking any recognition. And there's a purpose for my book as well, the book that I have written, the purpose was for I'm not young, I'm getting older, I've had a lot of health issues

and I wanted it recorded. I wanted it set down so if somebody come forth five years, 10 years from now, after my death, that hey, there was a guy that reported this very same thing and all the hidden the different disappearances,

the different deaths that have been written up as animal predation and the classic. The classic unknown animal attack. Yeah. Yeah. Which is taking place not only in LBO, but in Cock County, and up in Kentucky, of all these people that have mysteriously come up mauled to death. And, oh, gosh, I don't even like the animal breed. But God bless the pit bulls, man, because they have took every brunt and form of anything it dies, any human that gets attacked.

And there are pit bull attacks. I get it. Yeah, yeah. I've worked them as a cop. But now everything is, oh, we found the person drowned in two inches of water or a pit bull eat them alive. The pit bull has killed so many people in the last year. Go back to the Kentucky account where the little boy is dragged up 400, it's either 400 yards or 400 feet. Maybe we'll try 400 feet.

Let's get into that in overtime. Okay. I was kidding. Because that's actually the launching pad into the conversation. Yes. I want to give a, I don't know Elijah Henderson. Yes. I don't even know if he knows who I am, but shout out to Elijah because between him and his family,

big reason why you're sitting here today. My voice is not only trembling, but I can't even hardly speak it. But big shout out to Elijah Henderson and his sister, Gabby, Gabrielle, and his great-grandmother, Miss Henderson. They're the reason why I'm really here. I would have never come out of the darkness. All right. So your book, Beast Between the Rivers by Martin Groves, where can people get it? The book is available on Prime Amazon, and the second book will be out within the next probably 60 days, 90 days at most.

Okay. I wasn't going to tell the name, but it will be called a trace of death. And it is concerning the deaths and the different things, disappearances that has taken place in the area of Kentucky and Tennessee. And, of course, the road that cuts right through land between the lakes is called the trace. So I've named it Trace of Death. Wow. That's a good title. It's going to show a lot and tell a lot.

And we have to be respectful for people who have died and their families that are left behind. So we've changed some names and there'll be some different things written down. But we have to be very careful legal-wise. The trace of death, man, because that's what the place is. It's a beautiful place, but it also holds a very deep and some sinister things that date back to the days of the American Indian all the way through. I mean, you think about it, the first chronicled 1902 sighting that is a newspaper account in that area was about two brothers that actually shot at a gorilla wolf-like creature in 1902. Wow. Jeez.

Well, everybody can get the book right now. The first book, Beasts Between the Rivers and the second book will be out soon. And looks like my other camera died now too. But I highly encourage people to check out your book. Thank you. Thank you. It is a written down form of what they heard today. You sharing your personal encounter story from beginning to end.

It really sucked me in. And I hope it sucks everybody else in as well. Yes. And when the second book comes out, you have a green light to come in if you want to talk. I would love to. And we can go over more details on things pertaining to the book and then, you know, promote it. So. Thank you, sir. Last question before we head out of this segment, I got to ask you.

The answer is no. If you're hesitant, that's fine. But would you ever take me out there? You say you go out, went out 58 times in a year. Would you ever take me out there? Shall be where these things happen? I'd be happy to take you out there and you will actually be the very first person that has entered the camp along with myself. And I'd be happy to take you there.

I've taken people to the general area, but I and I alone know the exact location of where this was. And there's been folks that's been with me, but no one has been into that camp since 1990. Now I'm certain other hunters have either walked by and they might have even. had people that have camped there, but as far as people knowing that, hey, this is where Ground Zero. Martin and were. And something has occurred to me. Harry.

Yeah, I know you're changing your names. I just want to correct that because he said. Yeah. And which is a clue, which is a big clue right there. There's something that I have left out. And I would just be terrible that if I had not. told that part of the story. But if I can very quickly tell you,

there was so much to tell, but when the beast come into the camp and it was crouched forward and it was showing me its teeth and it was attempting to smell me and it was grinning as if it knew I could not do anything, there is one very important tidbit that when you brought something else up, it hit me. And it's a part that I don't cover very well, but it happened.

And that is that when this beast came in and it walked into the camp and I could see it vividly and I could see what it looked like. And I could see its hands and I could see its claws, his left claw, slash hands. had a hunk of meat in it dripping dripping dripping fresh kill fresh meat to this day i do not know what it was i know i know what i've been told by others what they think it is and the poor oil and the noises and this that and the other but you have to remember that i was less than less than two miles but over a mile from where another hunter died the very same night that we were attacked. Yeah. Wow.

That is a hideous, hideous thing to even talk about it. And it may not have anything to do with that, but it is a tidbit that I cannot leave out that when we saw this thing, it was clutching in its left paw, left claw, hand a big hunk of meat. And I just realized that when we were ending it out. And I wanted folks to remember that and to know that. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah, I mean, you can draw your own conclusions from there. But as soon as you said, that's where my mind went. Yes. But, I mean, certainly it could have been any animal that it grabbed on the way. But we do know that that hunter was killed. that night. Yes.

And the same night is when you saw that creature. That's crazy. Well, you hungry? You want to get some lunch before we do the second segment or you want to keep going into the second segment? We can go into the second segment. I will, I will, my terrible of addiction of drinking Coca-Cola, the real Coca-Cola, that's a private joke about Ken Gerhardt and Bart Nunley about Ken buying some Walmart drinks.

but we prefer the real thing Coca-Cola. Yeah, not the knock-offs. Yeah, not the knock-offs. We want Coca-Cola, man, the real thing. And there's something I was going to say, maybe we'll come back to me, but it's good to get all a platform that people can actually relate

and to hear everything. that to hear the truth not sugared or watered down. Yeah. And not a diet at soda is what I was trying to say. Not a diet soda. It's the real thing. Yeah. And that's actually, I'm glad you said that because before we started recording,

I wanted to say, and I forgot to tell you, and I'm glad you felt that way. Because I just bringing you in, when I bring people in like you, I just want this to be an opportunity for you to just say, everything and anything you want. It's just, it's like, hey, great platform. Just say it, just talk.

Like, I'm, like, I'm over 500 episodes in. People by now, they understand, they know. Like, this is no judgment zone here. I am very convinced, I have no clue what reality's made of, and therefore I am here to hear your stories. And so I'm glad you felt that way

because that's the environment that I wanted for this. So I'm glad you, I'm glad you got it out. You shared it with us in the audience. And anybody who's a member right now can head on over to the website or the app and listen to the overtime segment. And if you're not a member, well, then we'll see you next week. And until then, stay safe.

Take care and remember the truth was such a free, but first they'll piss you off. Bye. Well, that's the show. I really hope you enjoyed it. If you did enjoy, please share the show with anybody at everybody that you think would be benefiting from hearing it, even the naysayers, the doubters, the haters. Those are the people you definitely want to send this. too because if they're ever going to listen to somebody's story and believe them, it would be a

retired police officer because the people who typically are saying, ah, this is impossible. Creatures of the night, blah, blah, blah, blah, things in the woods. You're all smoking weed. People like that, they tend to would listen to a police officer more than you and I. So if you think this was a good episode, send it to the haters and the naysayers because they need to hear this just as much as you did. Thanks for being here, friends. Stay safe until next week. Take care and remember the truth was set you free, but first, it'll piss you off. Bye. Coming up on this week's overtime with Tony and Martin. Cave itself is a portal to hell and that cave itself is protected or guarded by dogmen.

I'm losing my mind, man. Yes, yes. Now, you won't get your average cryptid or your paranormal investigation will even, they will not speak of this, man. Because it's like taboo. It would be opening up a new portal and it doesn't fit someone else's genre. Oh, man. So is this a fact of portal to hell? Yes, it is.

One of the many portals to hell. I'm going. I'm so going. But you cannot remove one rock. That's okay. I'm just going to go.