The Confessionals - 530: Surviving MK-ULTRA

Episode Date: March 21, 2023

In Episode 530: Surviving MK-ULTRA we are joined by Juliette M. Engel, M.D. As a little girl, Dr. Engel was sold into the CIA program known as MK-Ultra. At 17 years old she escaped and integrated into society with no memories of her childhood. She went on to get her medical degree and start her own practice. As a highly sought-after doctor, she built a reputation for professionalism, and was even one of the first doctors allowed into Russia after the USSR fell in order to help rebuild their medical programs. Her life seemed to be on the path of the successful American dream, until she started to have flashes of memories come back to her, memories of a childhood she didn't recognize. Through a series of events, she started to seek counseling and asked her parents questions about her childhood. In response, her parents essentially told her to kill herself or they were going to disappear forever. Dr. Engel joins The Confessionals to share her life story as she remembers it now and to sound the alarm on the realities of the MK-Ultra program. Dr. Engel's Books:Sparky – Surviving Sex Magick: https://bit.ly/3JQwfioAngels Over Moscow: Life, Death and Human Trafficking in Russia: https://bit.ly/3JsZPsJBecome a member for AD FREE listening and EXTRA shows: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinCome Meet Tony:1. Smoky Mountain Bigfoot ConferenceTickets: https://bit.ly/3l1wZHR2. LIVE SHOW in Gatlinburg, TN!Tickets: https://bit.ly/3IC4IkxWatch Expedition Dogman: https://bit.ly/3CE6Kg0Tony's Studio Equipment: linktr.ee/mystudiogearSPONSORSGET EMP Shield: empshield.com Coupon Code: "tony" for $50 off every item you purchase! Listen to this episode for more information! Link: bit.ly/3YaMD1NGET SIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsGET Hello Fresh: hellofresh.com/confessionals60 Promo Code: "confessionals60" for 60% off plus free shipping!!!Get Emergency Food Supplies: www.preparewiththeconfessionals.comCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] to the Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/the-newsletterSOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIDiscord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelAre you a military veteran struggling with thoughts of suicide?Contact Watchman Readiness Corps for REAL help. A veteran-run organization that is designed to help through hands-on survival training.Website: wrc.vetEmail: [e-mail]: [phone]Instagram: wrc_survivalFacebook: colbywrcvetOUTRO MUSIC Joel Thomas - "Rose In A Cage" YouTube | Apple Music | Spotify

Hey, everyone, before we get to this week's show, this is a parental advisory warning. Please, please, please, do not let your kids listen to this episode until you listen to it first because I don't know how old your kids are, but I have met people recently that are letting their kids listen to the show as young as five years old. I have a five-year-old and I would never let him listen to this show, nor half the shows that I put out. But hey, you guys do you, I'll do me. I don't care what you guys do.

You're the parents. But I just wanted to give you a heads up that today's show, if you haven't figured it out by the title. It's kind of an edgier one. And I just want you guys to know that going in so that you are properly informed and you're not like, oh my gosh, where's the volume button? Turn it off. Oh, my gosh. All right. Let's get to this week's show. Merkel. Media. This was all circulating around the base that a giant had to kill, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, boning fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappeared.

When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave, and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing up this giant. With a giant moves, he's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast,

and spears Dan holds him up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face, they basically decapitated. I look over and there are two getting pulled off. Best push and I touch air. Couldn't breathe and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. Welcome to the show, everybody, listening to The Confessionals.

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Come on out there and meet me and Jack and possibly my wife, Lindsay and the kids, if they make it. If they make it, they'll probably be a hit and miss kind of thing. They're not going to be their whole time because a five-year-old and a two-year-old will not last an entire day at the Smoky Mountain Bigfoot Conference. But I will, and so will Jack. He will be there running the stands. I'll be there shaking hands. All right, friends. Also check out the live show that I'm doing in Gatlinburg.

And that is going to be a live show with me and Jerry from Hillbilly Horror Stories. We are going to be doing a live show in Gatlinburg this September 30th. Go ahead and check out the tickets for that if you're interested in coming out and participating in a live event posted by myself and Jerry from Hillbilly Horror Stories. I am excited about that and I hope to see you there. All right, friends, last but not least, check out Expedition Dogman on 2B Amazon, Merkel.comedia on demand. It doesn't matter to me, but it is a film that we came out with last year. The People Love it. And I know you'll love it too. So go ahead and check that out. We are going to be dropping our next film, the second one very soon. I'm talking very soon. Stay tuned for that.

More details will be coming and only a certain select few will have the opportunity to see it first. And will you be that? Well, you'll have to find out. All right. So this week we have Dr. Juliet Angle coming on. And it's a really interesting story that she has because she claims to be a victim of MK Ultra programming. Her parents sold her into the program. And what's interesting about her is her background. You see, she started having these memories come back to her after she escaped the programming because when she escaped, she didn't have memories of the programming. It was like her, she had this block of time in her mind. And what's interesting is she actually enrolled in medical school. She actually owned her own practice. She is an MD, a highly respected doctor. In fact,

she was one of the first doctors to go into Russia after the USSR failed to actually help build up their medical system. She was a very highly respected doctor and she comes out to talk about how she was part of the MK Ultra program and the things that she experienced, the sex magic that's involved in MK Ultra Mind programming is on another level. So with that said, I would highly suggest that you guys do not let your children listen to this episode until you listen to it first because some of the conversation we have is graphic, but it does need to be said and talked about. So I hope you guys enjoy this show. I think it's going to be very enlightening for you because of the fact that our guest is a doctor and a highly respected one

at that. And she comes forward to talk about her experience in the MK Ultra program. Let's get to Dr. Juliet Angle right now. All right, today we got Dr. Juliet Angle. How are you? I'm fine. Great. So I told you a little bit here and I want to tell the audience how this kind of came together because this is how it often happens for me. I find people I'm interested in online and I reach out to them and I usually only do one email because I forget by the end of the day that I reached out to anybody and I sent you an email because I found you on Twitter and I actually think it was one of these Twitter accounts that became unband and and like they were popping up in my feed and it was somebody that got banned about a year ago or something and the last

tweet they had was that they had you on their show. And I was like, oh, who's this? And I shot you. I know, that was Zach Payne. That was Red Pill 78. That's who it was. Yes. Red Pill 78. That's who it was. Yes. That was my very first time coming out on a, on a broadcast. And it was the night that he got banned off of Twitter and YouTube. Wow. It was the same day. Same day. I was his last tweet. Wow. See, I hope you don't have that track record with me, though. It still got out there. So, I mean, they can't stop it. Absolutely.

What's happening is God's will. Yeah. And I'm very familiar with that. And just seeing how things have unfolded from my show over the years and stuff, like we said before, God gets what God wants. And so I reached out to you and you responded. And I was like, oh, great. And so here we are. But you are a survivor of MK Ultra programming.

And also you, it's funny because it seems like your life has had multiple stages from what I've gathered. I mean, you have this experience growing up being sold into MK Ultra. And then you remember those, have those memories, you depart, you run away or whatever it is. You become a doctor. and then you wind up selling your practice and you move to Moscow and you uncover human trafficking over there when you're trying to help people with their medicine. And it's just like, holy cow, I mean, some people are living a life that they're just destined for one drama, but also to have an impact in people's lives around them because of the drama that goes on throughout their

life. And it seems like that that's very much you. I mean, it's just like step by step. It's just been one thing after another. And I found it very fascinating. I wanted to have you on to talk about your life story with these things. Before we get into that, though, you are an author of three different books. And if you could let the audience know about the books and where they can get them. Do you have the graphic I sent? I do. Okay. The first book is Sparky, Surviving Sex Magic. And the program that I was in was called Sex Magic. I was being raised to be a honeypot. and a spy for the CIA. And the second, so that I talk about one specific year in my childhood.

It took me years actually to be able to remember my childhood. And the hard part is as an M.K. ultra-survivor, it's so crazy. You can't put anything into context. And I have an MD degree. I'm boarded in nuclear physics. I've done all kinds of work in medicine. and in healthcare reform in Russia and the U.S. And with all those qualifications, I thought, well, maybe I'm not nuts.

You know, maybe I can start putting these things together. And there's no one to help you. I mean, I read Kathy O'Brien's book, but I found I couldn't read it. There were blocks in there. And I tried to read the Bible. I couldn't read the Bible. It blocks. It still blocks.

I can hear it. So I play recordings and I listen to it over and over and over. over and over and over till I can practically recite it and then begin to understand it. So obviously that was put in there and I was raised on the other Bible, which is the satanic Bible. And so that's in my book, Sparky's Surviving Sex Magic, which was a very, very difficult, painful thing to write. But I think it gives you a good look from the child's perspective. You know, I didn't have the overview. Nobody sat me down and said, this is what we're doing.

this is why we're doing. No, I'm telling you what the experience was as a child. And other people are reading it. I'm hearing from people every week who say, I think I did something similar. I have no memories. And so at a recent conference, I had five people come up to me. And interestingly, they turned out all to be related to me. So there's something there too. So I don't know. The second book, I, after I got my MD degree at the University of Washington, I graduated first in my class and started a radiology practice and had no memory of my childhood, but had a successful practice. I did research. I was in Seattle. It was the 1980s. So it's when Bill Gates and Paul Allen and the Broughtmans who founded Costco and Schultz who founded Starbucks, It was an exciting mix of people who have subsequently gone off the rails, but it was an exciting time to be in Seattle. It was a beginning of AI. I had an ultrasound development company.

My specialty was diagnostic imaging, prenatal ultrasound. And so it was exciting time to be in Seattle. And then I was literally called to go to Russia. It was the beginning of Glass Nas. The Iron Curtain had just come down, and I was invited to Russia as one of the first Western doctors to visit Russian healthcare facilities. And I was destined to go. I understand that now, but I didn't understand that. Then I did go.

It had a strange effect on me. I was in this very, very foreign, strange country, and Russia was. had been sealed off for years. The iron curtain was opening that day, and I went through it and discovered there how awful their health care system was and was able to help reform, do a lot to reform health care in Russia. And my second book is about that. It's called Angels Over Moscow. It's called Angels Over Moscow because in the process,

of working on health care reform, I discovered that about a third of babies were being abandoned at birth, and they had any kind of reason. You know, the baby cries too loud. One of the worst ones was they have red hair. So if they had red hair, they were abandoned, and there were orphanages full of kids with red hair,

perfectly wonderful little kids. But I wanted to know what was. happening to these babies, where were they going? So I persisted annoyingly to a lot of people, but I persisted and found that they went through a system of orphanages. At that time, there were 800,000 kids in orphanages. And the Russian population at that time was 120 million. So that's a significant number. And so then I, of course, wanted to know what happens to these kids in the orphanages. I mean, where are they? I found they were often out in little towns where they got minimal education, very poor food. They grew up to be undersized and badly socialized. And they would

walk out the door and be taken away to other countries where they disappeared. So that was how I came across human trafficking in the orphanages. And so that's also a half. how a group of Russian women and I started the Angel Coalition, which became enormous and eventually operated in 140 countries. I'm sorry, not 140 countries, but 40 countries. And over the course of 15 years, rescued, and we've documented this, 70,000 people. And we were able to do that by working with the police in multiple countries. So we did regular trainings in Russian police. They were totally open to it.

We had tremendous cooperation and discovered that one of the most popular destinations for trafficked children and trafficked women was the United States. And at that time, we were a State Department grantee. I mean, my money was coming from the office to monitor and prevent human trafficking, the tip office. And we were their largest grantee at the time. But this is not what they wanted to hear. you know, they wanted to hear how awful it was in Russia, not that they were coming to the United States. So I came to the United States. I went to my congressman who wasn't interested, went to other congressmen who were interested, including Congressman Chris Smith, who just got reelected,

and I think we'll do great things against human trafficking. Spoke at the State Department, spoke at the UN, spoke at congressional hearings. Nobody wanted to hear it. And I thought that was ignorance or I couldn't quite believe at that time that it's because you know, the State Department was actually involved in it, which later the people that I was encountering actually, they are. And my third book is a novel. And it's called Moscow Traffic and it's practically everything in it is true. But it's, it is, it's written as a thriller. And it's because I wanted to tell the history of Russia.

It's really the history of Russia, Ukraine, all the things that are going on. And really it tells you the basis for this war and for the rise in criminal groups and how, you know, they got to the United States. But writing it as fact was, nobody was going to believe it. So I wrote it as fiction. And I think probably now, you know, a few years later because it took a long time to write it, people will be, well, people will get a lot of information out there now that there's a context for it, which is what's going on in Ukraine. So those are my three books.

Wow. Wow. Yeah, you know, while you were just saying, talking about this last book, it really kind of, it's something that I identify with a lot because I think that there's a place for everything when it comes to you write books. But when you take a true story and you make it into a novel, there's a certain group of people out there that would never hear that story otherwise. Exactly. You know, because they just, whether they don't believe the context, if you put it in as a, like I say, a biography or something like that, but if you make it a story, they go into it saying, I can consume this and take it in. And then afterwards, you can say the last page, hey, by the way, this is all true. And then, you know, shift their parents.

But I think that there I think that's a really wise move. I've seen other people do that as well. I don't know if you've ever heard of Dr. Michael Heiser, but he has written fictional books as well. And it's very, I think it's very important to do it like that at times. So those are the three books. And people can definitely check them out. The links will be in the description of this episode. But why don't you let us know. Is it on Amazon, I'm assuming? Yes. They're all on Amazon. Yes. Or you can get it. I'm off my publisher's website and off my website. Okay.

Is there a way you prefer one over the other at all? Well, if you get them directly from the publisher, I get more money. So definitely. Let's do that. I mean, Amazon reduces you to, you know, little tiny pennies. So, of course, I prefer the publisher's website. Yeah. And I wanted to say that for Moscow traffic, the novel, I introduced a supernatural

into the events because you can't look at Russia. You can't really look at us either, but our culture poohs it and sticks it on television all the time, but it's not supposed to be believed. But in Russia, supernatural is part of everything. So one of the very strong characters in my book is a supernatural icon with its own history. its own attitude, its own, and it is the course of religion in Russia and Ukraine.

So you have to read it because if you are not familiar with how the supernatural works in religion, you'll, you will be after you read the book. Right. Yeah. And isn't that something? I mean, they do. They put so much supernatural on. Netflix and TV.

It has that reverse psychology where it's like, oh, that's TV, that's Hollywood. That's not meant to be believed. It's just, it's interesting how this, how deep the sci-up goes in the human experience in some of these countries and cultures like ours. It's, and I'm constantly fighting that battle myself with people, you know, trying to, and the hardest part is other Christians that, uh, are just your, you know, I go to church on Sunday and I just want to hold hands and pick flowers with Jesus in a field somewhere. They have no concept of the supernatural world they live in.

And they haven't read revelations or understood it or they've let someone else tell them what, because that's the message to us. Right. I mean, John's translation of the message from Jesus through the angels of the churches, is a condemnation of our society. And, you know, if you read nothing else in Revelations, read the first four chapters about the churches. The Nazis did, and I can tell you that in the 1930s, when the Nazis were looking to gain power,

which became probably the biggest sci-op in the world, and continued in MK Ultra, because that's Nazis. They took the same people and brought them to the United States. But the basis of their power, they considered to be a cult. And so they read revelations, and they read that Pergamon was the seat of Satan, and they read about the supernatural practices that were condemned by Jesus, and they wanted them. So it's very hard to find.

I found it in Russian Internet. I read Russian, so I read their sites, that the not. Nazis came to Pergamon and took it. So they exported the Temple of Zeus. They exported everything that might be considered the seat of Satan, and they took it to Berlin, where it's been ever since. And right now they have a series of buildings which contain the artifacts from Pergamon. It's closed.

They say they're refurbishing everything. So it'll be open, I think, at the end of this year. So there's Pergamon. They took it. And they took it because of its, it's, uh, their belief in its supernatural powers and they've used it. So, um, they believed it. And I think at the basis of every secret society, there is the occult. And that, uh, uh, I think in that, you know, the church, religion is, is a cult and that requires faith in something that, that you can't see, but is obviously real, you know, like, uh, so.

So there's tremendous power in that, and it's being used. And I think people need to see it because, you know, and read those first four chapters because they tell you. You know, Jesus talks about the city that runs hot and cold. He'd rather that it ran hot or it ran cold, but it's lukewarm because it's lukewarm, you'll spit it out. We're lukewarm. We tolerate everything. He's talking about tolerance. You know, you tolerate the next.

Nicolians, you tolerate their pagan practices. You tolerate the teachings of ba'am with sexual immorality and interbreeding of bloodlines. That's what he's talking about. He talks about it. I mean, it's not me. Listen, read it. And it's a condemnation of us. Absolutely.

Absolutely. I think that if people would read that book and half the old text, they would have a totally different worldview if they if they're claiming to believe that the Bible is true. But let's let's let's let's let's let's let's let's let's uh let's jump into um your story with uh how this all kind of unfolded for you. I don't know if you want to start off with your childhood and how that or like maybe starting off where you started remembering these memories from childhood. How would you like to start talking about this?

Well, I was 30 years old and top of my fields, mansion on the water, extremely successful. I had no reason to try and go back and look at my childhood, except that my daughter was born. And here was this little tiny, helpless, totally helpless person, completely dependent on me. And I was desperate because I, you know, that's when you want to look back and see how was I treated. You know, what did my parents do to me?

And how was I loved? And all I got when I got flashes was just horrible stuff. I mean, just things. And I thought I was going mad. So I tracked down my parents. I spoke to them. I wrote them letters. I tried to get a sense of, you know,

why do I have these, these memories? And am I crazy? And they said, oh, you're crazy. I said, well, I'm seeing a psychiatrist. I'm going to go see a psychiatrist because if I can't, if I'm crazy and I'm going to do to my child what's in my mind, I'll kill myself. And I was at that point. I couldn't eat. I couldn't sleep.

I was just always at her bedside, just fearful that something was going to. happened to her and fearful that I was going to do something to her. So I went to my psychiatrist. It was very hard for me to pick someone I trusted enough to do this. But I was a medical student and I was very impressed with him. I thought he was completely straight. He wasn't trying to manipulate. He wasn't.

He was a very intelligent, very honest person. And interestingly enough, he was from Potmos. I didn't know that this had any significance. And I think now that, yeah, it had a lot of significance that I picked a psychiatrist from Potmos. Of course, that's where John wrote Revelation. And so I went to him. I had my daughter with me in a little carrier. She was asleep.

And I said, am I crazy? And he thought about it. And he looked at me and he said, I've known you for a long time. You're very poor at understanding your own limitations. So he gave me, you know, all the negatives. And he said, but you are not crazy. And that was it. So I took his word for it.

And he said, okay, it's going to take a while to unravel you. And he said, tell me about your mother. Blank, nothing. I had no memory except a hand. That's all I remember. Nothing. And so he said, so he said, go home and draw what's in your mind.

So I did. I went home and drew what was in my mind. If I send it to you, yeah, I can use it. Yeah, it'd be worth it to put that up. So that's what I drew. And that's the, blueprint that I used over the next 20 years to unravel what had been done to my mind.

And I think the fact that I'm reaching up and I'm reaching out for God. I knew that I was a child of God that I wasn't part of this satanic M.K. Ultra stuff and that my goal was to live through it and then find God. although I knew I was always connected to God. So what I get when I reach out, I get the occultic symbols that were used extensively in MK Ultra. And then what they do to you during the programming is to, with the severe trauma and fear and occults practices as well as a lot of drugs, they break you apart into multiple personalities. not just multiple personalities, but complete identities. And I still suffer from that. I will be in one identity and not able to access what's in another one,

although I know it's over there. So, I mean, I have to like, I never use anything that alters my mind because then I can't go and find the other library book that has the other language or, you know, the other history. What I've been able to do is become aware of it. So I know to go look for them, but people that just start out get all this at once. And it's called flooding. And it's overwhelming and it drives people to suicide because that's what I drew is what you see inside yourself, which is total madness.

And the thing that people need to realize, it's not their madness. Yes, it's madness. That's not their madness. And this is what's happening in this country right now is that's what's inside of people. It's crazy. You're given the option all through MK Ultra programming to get away from it. They will wipe this clean. They will take it out of you.

But they'll also take your soul. So if you keep your soul, you've got this. If they wipe it out of you, you have nothing. And you follow the script. And you do what the people in our government are doing, what people are doing in the schools, the craziness. They're not capable of pulling back and seeing that this is a terrible thing they're doing. It's not there.

It's been wiped out. And you're not going to fix it by reasoning with these people. They have no capacity for it. They've essentially become demons. And I'm not a demonologist. Are there such things? I think there are, but usually they're working for the other side. It's all in the first four chapters of revelation.

If you tolerate demons in your midst, if you tolerate immoral practices, if you tolerate witchcraft, if you tolerate a whole list of things that Jesus tells John to tell the cities. And you've got to keep in mind, those cities, that was the pinnacle of civilization of the world. These were beautiful, artistic, culture, wealthy, well-developed cities with indoor plumbing and energy sources that we don't even understand at this point. And very advanced at libraries. Pergammon had a library with 200,000 manuscripts. It was all the knowledge of the known world. Did the Nazis take that?

probably it's gone so and now they're dust so you look at like smyrna what's there a couple of columns and a bunch of dust and interesting i've been to all these places um not realizing the connection with potmos although i started in potmos they're dust they are no more um they're gone so the revelations of what would happen if they didn't reform, if they didn't change their ways, happened. So we're looking at revelation, you know, in the context 2,000 years later, John was saying,

Jesus is coming back very soon, and you don't change your ways, you will be dust. He will spit you out of his mouth. That happened. And so like Sodom and Gomorra, those cities are no more, those great civilizations,

those beautiful buildings, those amazing temples, they must have felt like they would be there forever. So what's remained is the practices of the Nicolaiden's practice of the teachings of Belak, the battle between the saints and the demons, the angels are very real. So here we are today. And I've been to several teachings. I'm listening to people talking about revelations.

They always skip the first four chapters. Hmm. I wonder why that is. Because we follow the practices as the Nicolaitans. That's Christmas. Here's another, it's in my book, Sparky. Christmas is not the, it's not celebrating the birth of Christ. It's celebrating the birth of the demon Nimrod.

that's the Nicolaeotans, that's Santa Claus, that's St. Nicholas, that's holly, that's greenery, that's child's sacrifice on the 25th. That's the Saturnalia. That's the high, sacred holiday of the Nicolaitans, and we practice it. And if you looked at what was all around us at Christmas time is Santa Claus, elves. Santa Claus and elves are demons. St. Nicholas, you know, he became a saint, but Nicholas was a teacher of tolerance to all forms of demonology. And here we are. It's all the same. people that the Christmas tree has nothing to do with Jesus and very unpopular.

Yes. So, and it's all there. First four verses of Revelation was what's going to happen to us, to our, what looks like it will last forever, will be dust, just like Laodicea and Theriteira and Smyrna and Ephesus, dust. So with your experiences in this, in uncovering process, you sent me this picture. That was after you went home from the instruction of your, I forget what, who was he again? He was a student of yours? Psychiatrist. He's a psychiatrist that taught at the University of Washington, and I'd been his student.

Gotcha. Okay. So he told me to draw a picture and we'd start from there. And I was trying to draw my mother. He said, when you think of your mother, just draw it. So I drew it. And he looked at that and went, hmm, we have a lot of work to do. Yeah.

He didn't know what he was getting into, did he? No, no. And he didn't know anything about MK Ultra. This was like 1980. So even though it's... In 1976, there were hearings in Congress where they talked about MKLTRA. And the CIA admitted that it had funded 185 program sites that were conducting experiments using drugs and mind control and torture and sexual abuse.

He admitted it. And it involved 85 universities and all kinds of private contractors. and this was 1976, but it was immediately squashed and didn't get a lot of coverage, and somehow I missed it completely. Although I met some of the people that testified later, but it didn't take hold. And these were the church hearings, and I mentioned it in the forward to my book. So this is documented. And Richard Helms, who was the head of the CIA at the time, claimed that all the records, had been destroyed. So there wasn't, when Congress subpoenaed the CIA, they said, oh, no,

we just had a big fire and everything was destroyed. Later, they found 20,000 files and continued on, which revealed a lot more stuff that they did. But they were actively experimenting in 150 different universities and hospitals and sites and 185 different programs on Americans who were not giving consent. And the people doing it were Nazis who'd been brought here by Project Paperclip. And I later personally confirmed that because my family was deeply involved in it. And I had four uncles who were at Nernberg, and their job was to bring Nazis to the United States. And then they subsequently put their, each family put one child in the program. So I have several cousins who have been through programs, some committed suicide.

And I'm the one that is trucking on. Yeah. So, yeah, so my family was involved in it. Yeah, and so you mentioned about your going back to your parents, and the way you said it is you looked them up. So you had your child, and at that point in your life, you didn't have any communication with your parents? Is that how it was?

At that point, I had communication. with my parents. They were traveling around, but I knew I could find them. After that, after I confronted them and asked them, I never saw them again. Wow. They disappeared. My father quit his job. My mother, I never heard from my mother again until she was dying, and she called me 20 years later. But I was told they moved to Mexico, but I did not hear from them. it could have helped me, you know, could have helped me a lot. They could have explained things to me, but the way that my father, my father came and met with me.

So he sat me down and he said, if you go to a psychiatrist, you'll never see us again. And I said, if I don't go to a psychiatrist, I'm going to kill myself. And he said, well, that's your choice. Wow. And never saw him again until he was 19. I'm like before he died. But yeah.

Wow. Okay. So they weren't going to help. So essentially what he says to you is either way, we're not going to be in your life. Now that you, now that you remember, either you go ahead and kill yourself or we're leaving. Yes, and it's my choice. Wow. And I went to a psychiatrist, and I had a psychiatrist. try to contact my parents.

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system for your home in just a few minutes at Simplysafe.com slash confessionals. Go today and claim a free indoor security camera plus 20% off your order with interactive monitoring. That's simplysafe.com slash confessions. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. So you were left to piece things together at that point then on your own. How long of a process was this? I mean, did you like, so I mean, who you're working with doesn't know what, what MK Ultra is. I mean, how did you guys go about this whole process? I mean, was it just basically up to you to just randomly remember things and then bring it to the table? Or how'd that work?

Yes, pretty much, pretty much. And we just unraveled one piece at a time. But I'd get into things like the human sacrifice of other children. And because he knew me and knew me really well, he believed me. But we didn't know what to do with it. So I learned how to cope with the memories. I learned that they were things that had happened to me, but this madness was exterior to me.

So it was a process of like walling them off, although I now had access to a lot of them. I still kept them all off. And so the process itself took 30 years. I mean, it took a long time. And of course, the people around me were trying to. trying to discourage it all the time. And Seattle was a hotbed of pagan practices.

You can imagine you look at what's going on there now. They were all into rebirthing and being rebirthed as entities, interdimensional travel, bringing in spirits, occultism. You know, I think they're suffering from it badly now. The churches, there was a very very, powerful church in Seattle and it got destroyed when the pastor was caught up, I think framed and caught up in a in a homosexual scandal. And then when that church fell apart, it was never replaced. So Seattle is pagan. So it has to be God and the Holy Spirit that cleans this up. But I think the idea that you know, you're in the the clear if you're out picking flowers with Jesus and singing nice songs and dancing around barefoot. No. No, no, no, no. Not at all. No, you carry your burden. You answer the Lord.

You know, follow, follow his laws and his direction or your dust. So when these memories are coming back to you, was there a certain time of day or you're doing something that kind of was more conducive to having these memories come back or was it just very random for you? When I was actively trying to access them, they'd come back at, I would smell something and it would trigger a memory. Big one was the smell of pine because that's the smell of the Saturnalia, and that's when the children were sacrificed, and I was drugged and kept there and sexually abused, but I was, like, always treated like a deity, which I think has to do with my family line.

I mean, they had me in the program, but they couldn't kill me, but they killed the children on either side of me, so I was all the time wishing I was dead and completely dissociating. And so every time I smell pine, I would dissociate and start and start remembering the, I would remember the dissociation. So I would remember what I made up because I would, I would like float out of my body with an angel. And I would remember being with the angel, but not the specifics of the sacrifice. although I, the smell of blood that, that, most people seems that they don't, they can't really smell it, but boy, I can smell it. And in surgery rotations and, you know, doing blood draws and the smell of blood just makes me sick because I used to put it on me. The sacrificed blood that was still warm.

That's awful. But it's all wrong because that's, that's the Saturnalia. That's December 25th. It's not the birth of Christ. That's the birth of the demon Nimrod. And that's the time of child's sacrifice. So I don't know how you take all these Christians who think that's a high holy holiday and turn it around. I don't think it's humanly possible.

So I get my directions from the Holy Spirit, but I'm just a human. Yeah. All right, so you just said some things that are real heavy. Yeah. And the idea of, all right, so you have memories of being present when children being sacrificed. Yes, being strapped down, held down drugs so I can't move. They gave me paralyzing drugs. And the children on either side of me were being sacrificed.

So when that's happening, are you familiar with these children? Is this something that you guys, you know, they're taking friends of yours and they're doing this to you? Or are they bringing in kids that they're keeping locked up somewhere? And the way you're saying, it sounds almost like because they couldn't do it to you, were you like a focal point during this? Like were they doing this for, like with you in mind, like for, almost like you're for you in some way? It felt like that. I don't know if that's really true.

I was only, you know, a child myself, and I assumed they were going to kill me, too, but they didn't. And so, I don't know. I was a focal point in their ritual. I didn't want to be there. I hated them. I wanted out of there. And the children were, I describe it in Sparky. And I describe only one Saturnalia, although I was present in Saturnalia's going forward the whole time I was in the MKL program.

And the reason for that is I don't want to tell people how to do it. You know, I don't want to name the names of the demons. I don't want to call them up. I don't want people trying this. You know, black masses are nothing to mess around with. You know, you call up demons, you call up demons. believe them. But people need to know.

So I kept it strictly my experience from that point of view and at that time. So, you know, I was a child. So, of course, I'm egocentric. So everything was about me. But the children, I only met like that. We were all in the same van together being driven to this thing. So I didn't know them. They were all, the Saturnalia sacrifices were white children.

I can tell you that. I was also involved in, involved. I was also forced into a situation where they were making snuff films. And I can tell you, this was at Blank Outlook Mountain. Are you familiar with that place? No. I might not have my name right. Outlook Mountain.

Yeah, it's Outlook Mountain. Okay. It was a mansion built for Hitler above Los Angeles. And it was put together on the assumption that the Germans would win the war, and this would be Hitler's home on the West Coast, this mansion. And the lower floor was a studio. And during the war, they made propaganda films there. for the Nazis.

So it was a film studio. And so at this time, they would bring kids into the film studio. I was never upstairs. It's in the mountains above Los Angeles. There's a lot of things in the mountains around Los Angeles. And they would take us in through the studio door, which was a big door, and they had props and all this stuff. And they did snuff films where kids would kill each other. And they would force us to shoot at the other kids.

And I deliberately didn't, but they would still die. And I realized now years later, when I've actually fired a real gun, that we weren't given real guns. But we would be forced to shoot children, and that's what we believed. So I grew up believing that even though I'd shot, in other directions that I'd actually killed children

and these were all children brought up from Mexico so they weren't white children they were Mexican children and these were snuff films and what they did with them I don't know they drugged us, they kept us

in cages so we were kept in the basement in cages and that's one of the only times I got to talk to other children, and the children didn't all speak English. It was all the white race children were kept together because, I don't know why, but they weren't all Americans. So I'm remembering more about it by talking about it.

I really don't want to. It was horrible, but it's continued, and it hasn't stopped, and I'm sure it's gotten more sophisticated, more it really disturbs me. I'm extremely angry that they're bringing thousands of children over the Mexican border and then they're disappearing. I know I'm very

concerned about where they're going and how they're being used and this has got to stop. You can't do this. This is a satanic sacrifice all the way. Yeah. And too many people are involved in it and good people have to wake up to the fact that they have to do more than

just tolerate it. I agree. I agree. There has to be an acceptance that these things actually happen and that you're going to fight them. Right, right. There's a lot of dominoes that need to fall in order for real change to happen, like long lasting change. And maybe that long lasting change Domino needs to happen is just Jesus coming back and saying, enough's enough, you're done. You know, like Jesus spoke very highly of the little children when, when they were around. And he said some very brutally honest things about those who cause those children to stumble. And so. Yes, put a millstone around their neck.

Yeah. And it's something that I often think about when I think about where we're at in the world. So if I'm asking any questions that you prefer just to pass over, just let me know. I'll tell you. I'm not shy. Yeah. Okay, that's good.

Because with this kind of stuff, I understand sensitive, but at the same time, I have to ask the questions. With the children, like, say you were on a bus together, did you remember if it felt, did they know what was going to happen with them, or were they just kind of oblivious, like almost on a field trip or something? thing. They were drugged and they had no idea. Very often we were taken to Disneyland and I thought it was training, but if we didn't do what they told us to do, we couldn't get back on the bus and go home. So the first time, I may not be the first time, but the one I remembered in detail,

I was taken to Frontierland and dressed up in a little dress, a little skirt. I was about eight and told to go find a daddy and get him to buy me lunch and take me on the wild toad ride. Because the wild toad ride had, I knew that. this, I knew they were going to take pictures. The Wild Toad Ride has a place where you come around a corner and there's a light that comes right at the car like the train is going to hit you. And then it veers off at the last minute. Well, they had cameras. So when that light came at me in the car with Daddy, I was supposed to take his hand and put it up my skirt.

And I did that and got back on the bus because they got, I was a hyper-achiever. so I got two daddies. But then the bus was half empty. So what happened to the kids who didn't get a daddy and didn't get the pictures they wanted? I didn't think about the implications of what I was doing. I just did what I needed to live. And I was more worried about what happened to those children that didn't get back on the bus. Because then the next week they take us again, it would be different children.

Yeah. That is a terrifying thing to think about as a father of... Disneyland. Yeah, as a father of a five-year-old and a two-year-old. I've become disenfranchised with Disney over the last several years, but the idea of a place that's supposed to be just the kids' paradise. Isn't that the perfect place for profiles? Absolutely. Absolutely. And this was Disneyland, which opens me.

opened in 1956, 55 and so 56. So I was in California at the time. Gotcha. But they started out right in the beginning with this. Man. I had talked to a woman named Holly years ago. Like I said to you before we started that, you know, I have several MK. Ultra victim shows, and they've been behind membership paywall because of the interaction that people get in the comments sections, it's just not fair for a lot of people to have to go through that if they're willing to even come forward and talk, you know? But Holly, I remember one thing you said here is exactly what Holly said happened to her is she remembers distinctly being kept in a cage and other children being kept in cages. And that's something that, you know, and I think she was on the

east coast of the country when that was happening to her. But it's interesting because of all the people that I've talked to that have similar stories I've become very familiar with talking to victims and understanding that we're piecing the story together and it's a journey

and I had a woman her name's cat on my show several times now but our first conversation was she was talking about stuff and she had no idea what box to put it in. She's just telling me her paranormal experiences. And in the middle of the show, I told her, I said, I think you were part of MK Ultra and silence. And she's like, I need to take a break. And we hung up and we reconvened later. But her and I are going to be doing

some more stuff together because over time, she's been uncovering these memories. Her mom being in a satanic cult and all this stuff. And she has a friend, childhood friend that she's still friends with a day that that remembers the same things. And so that is probably something that most victims don't have is somebody that they can say, you remember this? Yeah, I remember this. And they can kind of say, I'm not crazy because my friend remembers this as well. When you were going through all this stuff, I know you mentioned that you, I guess there was some kind of sexual magic going on. Yes. If you could enlighten the audience, because I don't think I've talked about sex magic a ton on my show, I'm familiar with it. But if you could let people know, what does that even mean?

Like sex magic? I mean, I think that kind of goes over a lot of people's heads. Well, it's interesting because that was one of the programs that was actually listed during the church hearings that the CIA admitted to. And when I saw that, when I read the transcripts, I was out for a week. I was just so shaken because I'd really rather be wrong. I'd really rather be crazy than have all this evil going on around us and people barely able to fight it. Although they are able to fight it. They just don't realize it yet.

They have everything. They have their human souls. You can fight evil. That's why they're so busy trying to keep us repressed. I'm interested, did, was a cat, did she use the word box, not knowing what box put it in? I don't remember. I think it might be just me. Oh, because that's a key word in the MK Ultra.

Everything is in boxes. So your different identities are in boxes, and the boxes are stacked inside of a tree. And you can't, you can only access them with triggers. So your handlers have the triggers. And they can send you into different personalities and different states and to, but boxes is, is the word. So now I've lost track of the question you asked me. Going down the sex magic route.

Yeah, we were going down. Oh, sex magic, yeah. Well, I was a smart girl and a pretty girl, and so they wanted to me to be like a seductive scientist. They actually used the word virile. I don't know if you've heard that. Yeah. Vril girl. It's supposed to be a tall, sexy seducer of, you know, yeah, you know, world leaders.

Sure. And so sex magic is, falls a huge amount of sexual abuse. So their students, their victims are sexually abused to the point where sex has no connection with love. So sex becomes a tool and a very deliberate tool. And the magic part is projecting it into other people. and actually managing other people through the sex magic, which to us would be not sex at all, but all magic. And it ruined me.

It ruins people for any kind of relationship based on physical closeness and love because they're not connected. They never will be connected. They were viciously disconnected. But the second. magic part was very useful to me for a long time because I could project feelings into other people and get them to do what I want, even without the language. So people wouldn't even know they were getting me something or giving me something. So, I mean, it's a great spy tool, I guess.

and when I went to Russia and didn't know the language, although I knew surprisingly some of the language, I could communicate with people, travel around. I was perfectly comfortable because I could read them, and I could get them to do what I wanted. And I knew who was dangerous, I knew who wasn't, I knew. So it's very useful, but it's a dark art. So in order to come, and they're back to the first four chapters,

of revelations, those who practice the dark art will never enter the kingdom of God. And it took me until last year, actually, before I came out and admitted having anything to do with all of this stuff. I mean, I was using it. I could control a whole room full of, I mean, I'm not bragging about it, but I mean, I could manipulate things using magic. And I had to really accept that that was a demonic practice. It was wrong and I was entirely in line with Jesus and not with Satan. So in order to be, you know, born again and in Jesus meant giving that up. That was extremely difficult because I thought I have become powerless. I can't reach anybody. I can't, I'm defenseless.

It's like taking off your clothes, you know. But I gave it up. And with the help of the Holy Spirit, who was with me the whole way laughing because Holy Spirit really finds our struggles with these things amusing, I think. But I did give it up. And then suddenly I could understand the Bible.

I could still have difficulty reading it, but I can hear it and understand it. And so I've been on my journey. And that was only a year and a half ago. So that was like right after I went on Red Pill 78 and gave my first interview about M.K. Ultra. And then I presented at about six months later, presented at the Red Pill Expo, which is a terrific conference. and if you should come, I mean, goodness, I'll send you information about it. Sure.

It's G. Edward Griffin, who wrote the creature from Jekyll Island and really revealed all the satanic connections and in banking and how that's been used to perpetuate evil in our country. And so that was, that gave me the strength to do that. but I had to do it without my magic. I had to leave my magic behind. I thought I'd die. Yeah. I mean, one, for sure, some of the information, I'd like to take a look at it. But what you're describing, and this is not even close to the same thing, but I've never done magic, so I can't relate to it.

But I have quit smoking. and the idea of leaving anything that has nicotine in it on the table and leaving the house to go do something, leaving it behind, you feel naked, you feel like, I need that. And I was a miserable person for a few weeks when I quit. And it's an addiction. And I'm assuming there's a level of addiction when it comes to it because it's just so natural, it's easy, it's just been part of you for so long. I think it is an addiction, sure. And yeah, for a couple of weeks. because I felt like I was going to die. And then, of course, then you get stressed and you want to go back to it, but I didn't.

So I trusted, I had faith in the Lord. I had faith in the Holy Spirit. And I was following Jesus. Is it still a struggle, you think? I mean, I'm sure it's easier, but nothing? No, it's not a struggle. And I mean, we're all struggling now. This is a time of spiritual warfare.

Sure. It's a time of testing everyone to their physical and emotional core. And I'm 74 years old. So, you know, I'm struggling with a body that doesn't, you know, open a pickle jar in my hand falls apart. But I have absolutely. absolute faith in the Holy Spirit. And to me, the Holy Spirit always brings joy because the Spirit finds me so ridiculously, you know, concerned about things that aren't important.

What's important now is our spiritual strength and well-being. The rest of it, it's all dust. You know, Jesus says it's dust. Jesus doesn't say, dance around, sing, and we'll all go to heaven. No. You straighten up or you're dust. best. Right. I just thought of this and I'm going to bring this up to you and see if you are noticing the same thing that I've noticed. Now, I've talked to several different people and from

their perspective of when I'm talking to them, I'd seem to have, there's either somebody who's been, who has their memories coming back and they're going through that process. And in that process, they either find or they get closer with God to the point where there's like, you know, they're sold out. And then I've also talked to people, though, who have gone through these abuses and it's like they're atheistic almost. And I wonder if that's because of the abuses they've gone through with the satanic ritual abuse. It's like there can never be any God if I went through what I went through. I think it's a choice and it's a cruel, it's a Sophie's choice, you know, it's an absolute cruel choice. Is it over and over repeatedly? I was given the choice. I could stop the abuse. I could stop it and I could get the rewards. At least that's what they said. But they took my soul and I wasn't giving up my soul. So, I took the abuse and maybe I suspect that if people are hollowed out and emptied of God,

that they made that choice. And they were in the program. They got the abuse to stop. I mean, all you have to do is go out and get your body sliced up, your gender changed, your health ruined. I mean, so the rewards are, for most people are not rewards, but they're, they go from spiritual abuse. to physical abuse. Now, they can reverse it.

I think, you know, I think if they can find faith and they can find God, then they can come back. But I don't know, because at some point you actually become a demon. So. That's incredible. You can get, I can't find anyone, you know, theologians debated all this for centuries, but, boy, try to find that stuff. But we're strong.

I mean, the soul is just a, is the weapon, you know, because the body, and Jesus says, the body doesn't matter. It's, it's, we're here for this length of time. I mean, you think Revelations was written 2,000 years ago, Laodicea and the pinnacle, all of those beautiful, they weren't churches, they were whole cities. And, and, uh, prosperous, rich, wealthy, healthy, he had the best of everything.

And within 300 years, they were dust. And so that in the end, they lasted this much time, you know? So the rest of eternity is what matters. Right. So we should

all be working on our spiritual health. Right. And on finding our way to God. And then God tells us what to do. Like, you know, the Holy Spirit gives you directions. And if you say, I don't want to do that, slaps you up the side of the head and you do it. Right. Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you. I think there's, excuse me, I think there's a lot of people in this world that don't even realize they're working on their spiritual development, whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, you know,

the direction they're going. I think, I personally feel like we're spiritual beings living in a physical existence. So everything we do in this existence is working away at our human or our natural existence, which is spiritual. It's the root of everything in my mind. And it's easy to lose sight of that. You know, it's in the day-to-day activities, you know, people going to work, getting stuck in traffic and, you know, getting angry. You're not thinking about the spiritual well-being of the inner person, but I think everything we do is a constant chipping away at that sculpture. So let me ask you this, because I have a question about this, 30 years old, starting to get these memories. Is there a husband involved here in this story as far as, and if so, the significant other, how did they handle all this?

It was extremely difficult for him to handle it. And, you know, I don't want to talk about my husband or my children, but it was hard on them. And I wish I could have made it easier, but I couldn't help what was happening. And my conclusion was they'd all be better off if I was dead. And that's part of the MK Ultra training. That's called the freedom train. So when everything is just unbearable and the people around you are just like, because they're fighting against it, they don't want you changing.

and me wandering around the house at night, afraid somebody was going to hurt my baby. I mean, it was hard on my husband. It was hard on everyone. And so the natural thing is you, well, then you just get on the freedom train, which is this hippie train with all these psychedelic colors and all this happy music.

And other people have described this, too, something like it, pillows, and LSD, and you get all high and you jump out, you die. And so there's songs, too, about writing the freedom train. And that's what that is. It's suicide. So, but something in me made me stick it out. Well, and my psychiatrist telling me I wasn't crazy.

There was craziness, but it wasn't mine. and then my connection to the Holy Spirit, who drove me forward and eventually to Russia, where all kinds of things were revealed, because it's a very spiritual country, because of the abuse that they have suffered for all the time that communism was in control, and the churches were destroyed,

and people were shipped off, tortured, and killed for even mentioning God. Religion came, back in all forms in a vengeance as soon as the Soviet Union fell. So they were growing spiritually while I was growing spiritually. And I just loved all the bells. All the bells have meanings. And the bells I love the best are these tinkly bells that are the Holy Spirit.

So some of their recovery sort of parallel, or my recovery sort of parallel, I paralleled that country's recovering. And then later I find out I'm a large percent Russian. Really? Yes, and I did ancestry and discovered all kinds of things, including that my great, great, great grandmother was Saint Olga of Kiev, who became a saint because she was the Christianizer of Russia. She was the Russian queen who Christianized Russia.

Wow. Wow. that's see that's what I said in the beginning of the show I said your life is layered you have very many different levels to your life and in seasons I guess maybe seasons is a good way to describe it it's very interesting winding winding this down here I want to ask you this because this just popped in my head as well and you may not have an answer to this but I have talked to some people who claim to have been part of mk ultra programming and they were being trained to be super soldiers. Now, I know the super soldier idea is very much a Nazi idea. And MK Ultra, from what I understand, the very base origin of MK Ultr was to find a way to make

people super soldiers, from what I understand. Do you have any information on that at all? Yes. Yeah, there are super soldiers. And they suffer terribly. They were horribly abused. They often were genetically modified. And then I don't want to talk about people's stories that they would recognize. But yes, it's a very real thing. And I think that they were treated abominably. And, yeah, super soldiers is a very real thing. I've talked to the people who say they were part of that program,

but also, I forget what it was, but I remember seeing something in the news that, I forget what it was. It made me feel like the person that they were focusing on was a super soldier, what they were describing. It almost seemed almost a movie, you know, like how can somebody be able to do such things? But at the same time, I have a friend who you would think

was probably a super soldier with some of the stuff he's been able to accomplish in the military, but he's just really good at killing people. So, I mean, it's just one of those things where he's highly trained and all that. But yeah, they get taken in at the age of seven, and they are basically raised in a prison environment where they learn to torture and kill, and they're genetically modified and punished,

and they come out as killing machines. If they have strong, strong souls and can reestablish or establish their connection to God, they can fight their way back. But usually they're wounded, they've had multiple tours, they're fighting the system that wants them dead. You know, it's a horrible thing that was done to people. And the ones I know are really struggling. I believe it. But they're amazing people.

They have these strong, strong souls and feel terrible about what they did. Yeah. I mean, I've gathered that as well, is that there is a tremendous amount of guilt that goes with it. And that's a situation I would feel, I feel so bad for people because it's like you went through a crazy amount of abuse, essentially forced to do things. And you're the one that's left with all the guilt because you're still human compared to the demons that were teaching how to do this stuff. It's a shame. Yeah. I have a lot of guilt.

And that's part of what keeps the memories blocked is that you have to admit that you did these things. Plus, there were things I believed I did, which clearly I didn't. I thought I'd shot other kids. And then when I finally shot a real gun, I realized they didn't give us real guns. So, but yeah, you're forced to do things to stay alive that are morally abhorrent. Does that make you evil? So, yeah, you have to live with those questions. And if you're a super soldier, you're out there killing, you know, hundreds of people.

How do you reconcile that with your soul? So the dilemmas we're facing are horrific. And there's a lot more people that are affected by this. than anyone realizes. Yeah. I'm actually coming to understand that myself. The more I'm just in these communities and stuff, there's a lot of people who think that they have mental illness

and it's not mental illness that they have. It's years of abuse. And it's a shame. And I know there's some people out there, but I got to find somebody. Maybe you would have somebody in mind assuming that you're not the person for this. But I would really like to be able to have somebody one day that's in my back pocket

that is maybe a psychologist, a trained psychologist, knows MKLTLTRA is real and has been working with MK Ultra victims so that I can refer people that come to me to these people. Because I'm the conversation guy. I have conversations with people and I'm not a doctor. I'm a podcaster. And so I don't ever want to pretend that I can help. somebody and then wind up hurting them in the process because I say something that just was not

helpful in the moment. I had an experience, this is not with MK Ultra type stuff, but in general, I had a friend who was a recovering drug addict. And I'd never been around people who were real drug addicts. I mean, around people who smoke weed and stuff, but like, you know, heavy stuff. He was in and out of rehabs, and he knew he could take advantage of me. So he did that. And I indirectly enabled him in his addiction because I would give him my car and let him borrow things and money, not knowing that I was actually hurting him in the process and not helping him. And now, you know, he was in my wedding and, you know, two years ago he died from an overdose. And I'm not saying it's my fault or anything, but it's just the idea that I'm very cautious, trudge saying, yes, I can help you. And, you know, I'm in over my head in that department.

Yeah, I don't tell people I can help them either because I get triggered. So it hurts me to help them, but they keep coming. So as to psychiatrists that specialize in it, I think the medical profession is so compromised. You're not going to find that in it. And if anybody is saying that they do, you have to be really wary of the fact that they're probably CIA plants and they're going to start collecting information on the MK Ultra people who are out there. The ones that came to me at this last conference I was at are all high-level people. So they're not coming out saying they were M.K. Altered, but they sure would like to be able to

remember their childhoods and want to know what the heck happened to them. And so there isn't a mechanism yet. There needs to be, and it needs to be someone that can look at the whole picture. But I don't trust talking to anyone in medicine right now. I'm a doctor. I think the medical profession has just been so badly compromised. It's not the world it was when I started out in the 70s, or maybe I was naive in the 70s. it might be a little bit of both.

Yeah, probably both. Yeah. But I mean, like, when you say you're a doctor, I just want to clarify, you're an MD. Like, you're not, hey, I paid for my doctor degree online and now I'm a doctor kind of person. Like, you really are a doctor. Yes, I went to medical school at the University of Washington, graduated first in my class, interned there, and did a radiology residency. So I'm board certified radiologist and then practiced for 20 years. Remember, I'm old.

So, yeah, I'm a full-fledged doctor, and I did health care reform in Russia on all kinds of different issues, particularly around maternal infant health, and reforming their systems of birth control, which was at that time abortion and getting it tightened up so that now they have birth control and no other. abortion is illegal except in the medical circumstances so yeah I'm a doctor is through and true I've also spent time with shamans

in Crimea where there are a lot of shamans and actually had a tumor cured but that's another story that was that was shamanic magic and that involved actually going inside of a tree,

becoming part of the tree. When I came out again, the tumor was gone. That's incredible. Yeah. Wow. That's in my book, actually. And I came back to Seattle.

I was still practicing, and I was so excited about it. I wanted to tell everybody. I thought they'd all be really interested. Crickets. It's like it was so far out of everyone's recognizable reality that they couldn't hear it.

So it was really my first time understanding that you can come tell the truth. They're not going to hear it. Although I knew that with M.K. Alter, because I was always trying to tell people what was happening to me. And if they did start to hear it, then my parents picked us up and moved. So we moved 15, 16 times while I was in grade school. That was the answer. You went across a county line. You went across the state line.

and once we had to leave the country and I spent a year in Canada the schools were an ally then so they were always looking out for me and questioning what was going on at home questioning my parents and why I was disappearing and coming back

with big black circles around my eyes and anybody who doesn't know what that means it's not that that's a sign of sexual abuse Is that what you're referring to? Yeah, extreme abuse in a child. Yeah, so I mean, anybody, and in fact, I want to take this moment right now to direct attention to that in case somebody has children around them that they see that.

But if you see a child who has constantly black eyes on both eyes, that's a sign of sexual abuse through anal penetration. It is a very horrific abuse that that child's going through. And if you notice something like that, say something. try to help that child as fast as possible. Because it can kill them. Yes. So on that dark note, I would like to just wind things down. I'd like to have you just tell people about your book titles again and where they can get them.

But before I have it handed over for you to do that, would you be willing to come on again with me so we could talk more about Angels over Moscow out and those things and kind of pivot the conversation into that stage of your life because I think it's very interesting and I'd like to have you on to talk about it. Sure. And yes, and we can talk about the spiritual medicine as practiced in Russia. Absolutely. Which is a very real thing. Sounds good. So where can people find your books again? They're on Amazon, but I'd rather they go to my website, which you'll post underneath it, right? Absolutely.

And if you go to a website and go to my publishers page, you can order them there. And I get a bigger percentage of the profits that way. Otherwise, Amazon takes just about everything. Yeah, I'm very familiar with that. Dr. Engel, I really appreciate you being on the show today. You're welcome. Glad to talk to you. It's just important stuff, and I'm glad you're tackling it.

I appreciate it. I'm glad you're tackling it as a Christian and willing to look deeper into what Christ meant when he said, pick up your cross and follow me. He didn't say, go dance in the fields like a pagan. Yeah. And that's often the depiction that I see coming out of a lot of people these days. They just think that Jesus was a hippie picking lilies with his friends. And, you know, the reality is Jesus was a man's man. And that's why men followed him because he was he was that guy. So I just try to do my best and let God lead me. And I, it was a, this conversation, I believe was one of those times. I found you on Twitter, didn't know much about you. I just saw the context and I was like, sounds like she'd be somebody good for my show.

I reached out, you replied, here we are. And I think, I think this was a fantastic conversation. So thank you. Great. You're welcome. I look forward to seeing what the comments are like. They'll be fine. We don't worry about comments around here. Oh, I don't worry about them. They're just interesting sometimes. I mean, I imagine some people who've been MK Eldred are going to come forward.

Well, that's the show. Everybody, I really hope you enjoyed it. If you did enjoy it, please share the show with your friends. I don't care where or how you share the show. Just share the show. If you enjoyed it, that's the best thing you can do to help the show grow. Share the freaking show. I appreciate you guys listening on a weekly basis. Keep coming back. I'll keep pumping out shows every Tuesday and Thursday. And until next week, friends, stay safe. Take care and remember. the truth except you free but first it'll piss you off bye