The Confessionals - 54: The Basement Spirits

Episode Date: January 27, 2018

On Episode 54: The Basement Spirits, Marc joins The Confessionals to share his experiences dealing with spirits in the basement of a house he lived in with his family. Many things happened to him there - varying in severity - and Marc walks us through these haunting experiences. TheConfessionals Website: www.theconfessionalspodcast.com Email: [e-mail] Facebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcast Twitter: @TConfessionals Tony's Twitter: @tony_merkel 

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Just another loan to sacrifice your life. Staying in the shadows. It's called Prolet. Perforce. For the rest of the right. You guys hear that? Welcome to the show, everybody. You are listening to The Confessionals,

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Now, this week we have Mark coming on, and Mark shares some haunting details of things that he has experienced in a previous house he lived in with an ex-wife and their child. children. So without any further delay, let's bring on Mark right after this. Okay, tonight I have Mark coming on, and Mark emailed me with some stories from a house that he lived in with his previous wife and children. Mark, how you doing, man? I'm good. Thank you, Tony. Good, good. So I know you're in a hotel right now working and doing your thing, and I really appreciate you coming on and talking with me. I imagine you're probably bored anyway, so I'm good to fill that time up anyway.

So, yeah, what are you going to do in a hotel on Fargo, North Dakota? Right. So, but I'm really glad we're talking tonight. I know we got this email here that you sent me, which I found really interesting. So why don't you just kind of set the scene here as to what happened with the house and what led up to this whole thing? Okay. All right. Thank you.

Thanks for having me. I will, I mean, I'll try to stay concise. There's a sort of when I recount this in my mind, it sort of, I bounce around a little bit and I'll try not to do that. But what it boils down to is it was about 22 years ago. So like in the mid-90s, my wife at the time and I had been married for a few years. We had, my son was about two years old and three years old at the time. And we had kind of gone through some, you know, problems.

We're not happy and things aren't going well for us. So like a lot of couples, we decided maybe we should move and that'll make our marriage better. So we did. And that's how we wound up moving. There was no reason to move other than that. We saw him a nice little house in a, you know, in kind of an older part of town. The house was built. It's unremarkable.

It was built probably during the World War II era, mid-40s, somewhere in there, early 40s. every house in the block would just like it. There was nothing remarkable about it. So we lived there for probably, I don't know, maybe a year. And I sort of had this sense every now and again that something else was there with us. But, you know, that's just a new house. And we don't know, well, it's whatever. It's dark in the basement.

It's shadowy. You don't know the nooks and crannies. yet, but that kind of continued on for a while where it just seemed like there was something else around once in a while until finally one day I was walking down the steps into the basement. And the basement was finished. We had the fireplace in a living room down there. There was a little family room, an extra bedroom, and the laundry and so on. So it was a common part of the house.

It wasn't a cellar. It wasn't a storage area. It was a common part of the house. And I was walking down the steps, and I felt as though I'd been pushed. I missed about three or four steps, fell. Of course, I kind of shouted. My wife said, you know, what's going on or whatever. And I said, I think I just, I fell, but I think it was pushed.

And we kind of brushed it off. That can't be. You must have just fell, whatever. sometime later, weeks, months later, weeks later, I was walking down to the basement again. And this time when I turned the corner into the room that had a fireplace and couch and kind of a living room area, I saw the feet or legs of what I thought were two children sitting in a window well of the basement window. So here I go bouncing around a little bit, described that basement. It's a basement of a house built in the 40s.

It doesn't have great big windows. It's not a walkout. It has what are called casement windows. They're not familiar with that. They're 12 or 15 inches high and maybe a couple of feet wide, but they're placed really high in the basement wall. So you don't look out them. They provide a little bit of light.

That's it. So the window sill was about at my head level. So when I say I saw feet and legs, that's all I saw. It was as if someone were sitting up in that window cell, but only their legs were down into the room. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so it appeared to be two small kids,

and their feet were sort of kicking like little kids do when their feet don't touch the ground, and they're sitting on something. And I thought, what in the world was that? And boom, it was gone. Didn't see it again. I don't know what that was. I can't explain that. So things like this sort of happened from time to time

where you hear something or you sense something or you're pretty sure you shut that light off. Well, whatever. And then after about a year of living in this house, the problems that sort of caused us to think we needed to move were reignited. So how we were not getting along. dissatisfied. We're too young people, too young to be married. All the problems that young couples

have and moving into this new house to not fix any of them. And now we're pretty much at each other's throat a lot. To the point where every night we'd go to bed, we would end up in an argument, almost every night. And the argument would always end with me leaving the bedroom and going down into that finished basement and sleeping down there. So usually I would put a fire in the fireplace, put on a radio, try to relax, and I would bring myself back down, fall asleep to the crack of a fireplace, laying on the couch, as it were, down there. And every night I'd lay there and kind of think, you know, this isn't going well.

exactly what I thought, but that's the appropriate thing to say. This isn't going well. I don't like this. I was very angry with her. She was very angry with me, but we never resolved anything. One night, so here we get to the good part, I guess. So one night, I'm laying there on the couch, and we had had our argument and I had gone downstairs, and I couldn't sleep, and had a fire going, and,

I lay there thinking, you owe me an apology. I'm not going back up to bed tonight. I am not pretending this is all good and fine. I'm not kissing you goodbye tomorrow when I leave for work. I'm mad and I'm going to be mad. And I lay there for quite some time, a long time, maybe an hour, or maybe a couple of hours. And I heard my wife get out of my wife, get out of,

bed. I heard her get up. I heard her get out of bed. I heard her feet touch the floor. I heard her walk across the hardwood floors of our bedroom. I heard the sound of her feet change as it got under the carpeting in the living room and back to the hardwood in the kitchen. I heard coming down the steps. I heard her stop and continue and stop and continue. And I thought, I'm not going to greet her. I was so angry. I was just so angry. I was not going to greet her.

I wasn't going to turn on the light and say, oh, he came down to talk. But I was thinking to myself, ha, ha. I knew she would cave in and come downstairs and we would talk this out. So I lay there and I actually pretended to be sleeping. I was facing the wall and I pretended to sleep. And I heard a walk across the basement floor. she walked right up to the bed and it was a very long time of her standing next to the couch. I say bed, but couch.

She's standing next to the couch and I'm thinking, say something, say something. Then I got thinking, no, now she knows I'm sleeping. She's going to turn her and go back upstairs and this is never going to resolve itself. but I am not going to blink. I am not going to blink. So I lay there for a while and pretty soon she sat down on the edge of the couch. I felt the weight of her body sit on the side of the couch because my body moved a little bit toward it.

And I stubbornly continued to stare at the wall and pretend to be sleeping in the dark for about five minutes. And then finally, because she didn't say anything, I blinked. And I rolled over. I was going to have my moment. Nobody was there. She wasn't there. Nobody was there.

And she had not gone back upstairs. No time had lapsed. I did not fall asleep and then wake up and she was gone. I still felt the indent, if you will, on the edge of the couch when I rolled over to face her. No one was there. Well, that'll scare the hell out of you. Yeah, I'd say. So I actually ended up going upstairs because, silly as it sounds, it was a little too freaky to be in the basement at that point.

I'm sure. Yeah, so I went upstairs and she was sleeping. Now, I was fake sleeping. So perhaps she was fake sleeping, but I got in bed. She didn't move. She didn't acknowledge that. the next morning, I asked her about it. Excuse me, we talked about it.

She claimed she'd not come downstairs. If she had come downstairs, she made her way back upstairs without me knowing about it. If she came downstairs, she was remarkably believable when I came up to bed in that she was sleeping and she was remarkably believable the next day. and she claims she never got up bed. And in the end, probably within the next six months, she and I separated and I moved out. The rest of the history.

Wow. Wow, man. So those are some experiences in that house, man, that are unmistakable because, like the first thing you said about the whole being pushed down the stairs. Now, did you fly all the way down the stairs when you were pushed? I was probably about five steps from the bottom, and I stopped myself. I didn't actually wind up on the basement floor. I wound up more or less still standing, but on the last steps.

In other words, I missed about three or four steps and landed on my feet, but I certainly had the sensation that it wasn't just slipping or tripping. I literally felt myself go forward. Arms go out, catch the wall, stop self and falling. Stop on the bottom step and think, what was that? I just had an interview with a guy recently

that he described that his family members told him about how they were pushed downstairs. And I find it fascinating when people tell me that they've felt somebody pushed them in any way because the whole idea behind this, you know, the ghost or spirit, whatever it is, that they need a lot of energy to do anything in the physical realm and to push somebody seems like it would take a lot of energy. What do you think about that? Do you think that, you know, you had some kind of spirit pushing you? Do you think it was maybe,

I don't know, demonic? Because, I mean, you've had the other experiences and they all, before we, even answer that, I want to point out that it seems like everything surrounds the basement. Have you ever connected that dot? It certainly seems like everything that occurred in the basement. We never had any occurrences or issues upstairs, none at all. Okay. Now, when you were in the basement and you saw the feet in the window, now I know kind of when you're talking about, it's like at eye level and, you know, it's just real short window for light. And those feet that were dangling and you said they were just gone, did you actually see them like,

disappear, like, did they fade away, or are they automatically, like, in a blink of an eye, just gone? I don't know how to describe it. It's more like there was a sense that they were there. Yet, when I think about it, in my mind's eye, I can see, I can see stocking feet and bare legs as if shorts or a little dress or something. I can see stocking feet and bare legs. and nothing more. I don't see a torso or an upper body. And it was not, it was, how I say this. It was not physical in that I actually thought that it was a human being sitting my window well. You could look at it for that half a second that it occurred and,

and no, you're not looking at a physical being, yet it was there. And the word apparition. comes to mind, but that almost cheapens it in a way. It wasn't, it wasn't just a thought. And this is the part about ghost stories that always makes them sound unbelievable. And this is why I find it hard to believe a lot of ghost stories, because all once

it starts to sound like you were dreaming or you were daydreaming or your mind got carried away. That is not the case. I had no reason to think that there would be children sitting in my window sill, and there was nothing occurring that would have caused me to mistake them for being children sitting in my window sill. And as I mentioned early when we first started talking, there's nothing remarkable about this house. It's not the amity little house. It's not, there's nothing special about. There's no reason to think that there's something haunting that house. but I know, I know that I truly saw two sets of children's legs in that I've been of so. Yeah, I mean, you know what you saw.

And that's the thing that a lot of people, they come on the show and they're sharing what they saw. And it gets to the point, I imagine that it's like you just really don't care, you know, who believes you or whatever. It's just like, listen, I know what I saw. This is what I saw. That's that. You know what I mean? And that's, I'm sorry, yeah, excuse me, that's, excuse me, that's the crazy part, you know, you don't have to go too far to hear a ghost story or, you know, to hear somebody's, listen to somebody tell you about their dream or something. You don't have to go very far to hear that.

And oftentimes, I'm a bit of a cynic, I think. But yet, there's a kernel of truth in some of these. stories and I'm telling you there's a kernel of truth in my story and I I certainly do not mean to embellish it at all. I am in my mind and my heart I feel it the same way today as I did 25 years ago. No, I understand that totally. So let's just take a break right now and when we come back, we will get back into it with Mark. Okay, we're back. And so Mark, when you're in the basement and you're sleeping down there, were you creeped out at all knowing what you saw in the window sill, knowing that you felt pushed, when you're laying down there trying to sleep,

did that ever, you know, come across your mind while you're trying to go to bed? Oh, for sure. Even when I wasn't trying to go to bed that sometimes came across my mind. But there wasn't an alternative. It was a two-bedroom house, and my son had, I mentioned my son was about two. He had his bedroom. and my thought was the basement is as far away from my problems as I can get. So come hell or high water, the basement is mine.

Yeah. So whether I was, excuse me, whether I was a little nervous or apprehensive about being there didn't matter. But it was the only place I could be and feel like I was standing my ground, if you will. Sure, I get that. When you heard this, what you thought was a person, turns out it probably wasn't. When you heard it coming and you saw, you know, you felt it sit on the bed and all that stuff, at what point did you feel like, like, all right, so you roll over and you see that there's nobody there. Is that the moment that you felt like, okay, you just experienced a haunting at length.

I want to get out of here, or did it take a little bit of time to sink into your head actually what just happened? I would say that it took a little bit of thinking, but that little bit of thinking happened in about three seconds. Like in my mind, I thought, what? Can't be. Did I fall asleep? No, I didn't. Oh, my God. Oh, I'm out of here.

I mean, it happens like that. I guess. Like, my brain processed it ultra fast that I did, I did not fall asleep. And I'm going to throw this out there, too, that I was actually, that was during a time when I was, I was suffering a lot of insomnia. And I imagine it was related to all the things that were going on in my marriage and so on. But sleep was not something that came to me on a regular basis. So sleep was not something that really could have happened in an instant that I wouldn't know how I was slowing sleep. words, I could lie awake sleepless for days on end, nights on end.

So to think that I, whoops, just fell asleep, it wasn't, sleep was not that easy for me to come by it. It still isn't. Sleep certainly was not that easy to come by, but I would have just dozed off and woke up. I take that option off the table. Yeah. I mean, if you're not sleeping, then obviously you know, you know, what you felt.

I don't know. I just hearing your story and stuff, I keep thinking about how it kind of all surrounds the basement. And I don't know. Did you mention, I know you said there's nothing special about the house, but do you know the age of the house? Yeah, it was built in the mid-40s,

early the mid-40s, Roller 2 era. And what I do know is that an insurance guy owned it, a local insurance guy built it, like a local insurance agent. I only know that because we found some documents in the house that related to that, some signage and stuff from this business. I know that the neighborhood itself was sort of at the,

when the homes were built there, it was, it was sort of a suburb. Now it's surrounded by this larger town, but at the time, it was sort of off the beaten path. And, you know, one of the homes. was built by a local judge. The house that we lived in had been built by this insurance agent. The one next door had been a surgeon or doctor. So it was at one time sort of an upper middle class neighborhood when we live there was just a regular middle class neighborhood.

So the homes were knife for the 40s and 50s, but they were just little cracker jackboxes really by the time we were living there. Yeah. So you're experiencing these things in the house. Is that the last thing that you experienced with the whole, you know, haunting of while you're trying to sleep in the basement? Nothing else happened after that, right? That is it. That's the last of it.

And as I mentioned, it was shortly after that that my wife at the time, she and I separated her an onboarded most. Have been for 20 years or something. Now, did you talk to her about all these different things? Like, did you tell her that you saw the feet dangling the window? Did she ever have any comments toward this stuff? Yeah, mostly just skepticism. I'm just like, you know, can't be, must have been imagining it or something, you know, very, very stoic. And now that's probably all on your head.

So I dropped it, left it at that. Okay. So I guess nobody else, you know, experienced the stuff that you did. Now, with the things that you've experienced, what do you make of it? Like, what are your thoughts behind the whole idea of a spirit being in the house when you moved in? I thought at the time, I rationalized it. I rationalized it as a sympathetic spirit. That's how I felt.

I felt that, again, I have no basis for this. I don't have any history. We don't know that there was a family that had died in that house and tragedy. We don't know. And there's no reason to think any of that happened. We didn't look for that, but we don't know that to be the case either. But in my heart, I think that was a sympathetic spirit being who wanted, who could understand my pain. my sense was it was a feminine entity.

In other words, motherly, loving, who was coming to comfort me. Beyond that, I mean, that maybe that's just a logical thought. That's what you,

I mean, that's what would happen. If someone felt bad for you, they'd come to sit with you. Now, that, let me be clear, I felt that being,

being sit on the side of the bed that being did not reach over and touch me that being did not brush my hair or hug me or comfort me touch my shoulder that being sat there as and in 20 years of thinking about this from time to time the thought that comes to mind is that the being didn't want me to know it was there but felt compelled to be there that being came there because she or it felt compelled or needed to or wanted to come from me, but maybe wasn't allowed to reach out or wasn't allowed to touch me or didn't have the energy and capacity to reach out to touch. And it exuded all of its energy just getting there, perhaps. I don't know. Okay.

Now, based off of what you just said, do you think that there might have been more than one entity in the house? Because if one is sympathetic, I have a hard time understanding why it would push you down the stairs if it's the same one. I agree. I also don't have the sensation that it was a child sitting on the edge of the bed or one of two children sitting on the edge of the bed. Was it one of those children sitting at the edge of the bed? in the window that was being naughty and acting out like children can that pushed or gave me the sensation of being pushed. Was that a fourth being? I don't know. But I don't, I don't feel

like what sat on the edge of my bed was a child or an angry thing. So I guess the answer to your question is either there was more than one or whatever it was had more than one at a Yeah, I can see that. Now, earlier you mentioned about how, like, you know, you don't really know how you feel about all these different ghost stories and things like that. What are your thoughts on the whole idea of ghosts and spirits and something like that? Like, I know we talked about a little bit earlier. So, you know, what do you think about that stuff? I think that this cannot happen. This can't happen. So, I'm a Christian. And so I'm a Christian. And so I believe, and if you read your Bible, and the Bible is the inherent word of God, there is a chasm between heaven and earth. We can't go there and just pop back here, and they can't be there and pop back down here.

And I know a lot of your listeners are, I say, oh, but my uncle is a Gertian angel, I personally don't believe it. I don't buy that. Once your uncle's in heaven, you stay in it because it's a heck of a lot better than here. Why would you want to come back here if heaven is what we think it's going to be? So not only do I think if I get my chance to get to heaven, I ain't coming back here. I also think once you've gotten to heaven, you're not allowed to come back here. I can't allow myself to believe it was a ghost.

And I don't know, you can play back this audio and tell if I said the word ghost, but I don't know that I said the word ghost because I'm, I'm not convinced that it's a ghost. So in my world, it's either a, in my world, it's an evil entity. It's the devil. But why would the devil comfort me? that doesn't make any sense. I can see why the devil would push someone down the steps.

Maybe I can see why the devil would pretend to be a child and kick their feet in a window sill, but I suppose unless it's a grand deception, why would the devil care to comfort me? So recently it's occurred to me and stops it from having been an angel, not the spirit of a dead person that once walked this earth. but a godly being called an angel, which is different than your soul or mine.

Makes sense? Yeah. No, it doesn't make sense. I have some questions because, you know, obviously I'm a Christian too, and I come from a very strong upbringing as a Christian. And for most of my life, I've been fascinated with paranormal things, and I didn't know how to, you know, make sense. of it, even though it's fascinated with it. I'm like, you know, am I supposed to believe this stuff? Is this stuff real? What is it? And some of the things that I started looking at was, for one, and I'll ask you your take on this, the disciples, when they're in the boat, they see Jesus walking on water and

they called him a ghost. They said, it's a ghost. And obviously it wasn't a ghost. But the fact that the disciples thought to identify Jesus walking on water as a ghost, I take that as, well, if the Bible has, if they said it's a ghost, but there are no such things as ghosts, I would expect the Bible to correct what they said to say something like they called it a ghost, then they were reminded that there are no such things as ghosts or something like that, you know, but the fact that the they didn't say that there are no such things as ghosts, it just says that they saw Jesus and they called him a ghost. And then, you know, so what are your thoughts on that? You know, like I'm just curious.

Well, my first thought is I'm not, I don't know what the Hebrew translation of the word ghost is or what the Jewish translation of the word ghost. And I know I'm familiar with the term holy ghost, but I also hear that stated as Holy Spirit. So I don't know. Maybe it would be worth our time to understand what the word goes. how that can be translated in in the language that the disciples may have been speaking. Your point's valid. If ghost is a ghost and ghost meant then what ghost means now, then I understand your point,

but I always think back to the story of Lazarus and the rich man. I'm not in your name and how the chasm was opened so that Lazarus could see the rich man, and the rich man could see Lazarus. Other than that, they weren't allowed to see one. of it. In other words, there's a divide there that there's a curtain that we can't draw back and forth. That's my interpretation. It's my understanding. There's a curtain that you and I can't draw back and forth. It can be drawn back and forth, but not by your eye. Yeah, I think you're onto it because I don't think that I, this is the way I think. I think that there's a

curtain that's not supposed to be pulled back. But I think the key thing for me is that it's not supposed to be. And in the Old Testament, God instructs people throughout the law, you know, like the Leviticus Law and Deuteronomy. He instructs people at certain areas to not be mediums or not be necromancers. And not summons them. Right. Do not be summoning spirits. And if God had to instruct his people to not do something, to me, it says, okay, it's possible, but you're not supposed to be doing it. You know what I mean? Sounds like a story about an apple. Yeah, exactly. Don't eat the apple, right? Yeah, exactly. Um, so I mean, because I, yeah, you're on to something. I hadn't thought of that, but you're absolutely right. He, he wouldn't have instructed

us not to summon those things. On the other hand, here again, just, just kind of thinking of well here. Sure. Perhaps he was suggesting don't summons the evil one. Perhaps he wasn't suggesting that we could summon our dead cousin, but rather we could summons the evil one. I don't, again, I'm not a Bible scholar, so I don't know what he, I don't know what those verses exactly are referring to.

But man, I'm not going to, I'm not going to be. Anytime soon, summoning any spirit of every time. I ain't taking that chance. No, I totally get it. So let's just take a break right now. And when we come back, we'll keep talking with you, Mark. I totally get it and stuff. I really enjoy having these conversations with people and stuff,

especially people that are Christians like myself, because, you know, I was raised in a small church. And it's nobody's, like, direct fault or anything. But I was just, I really kind of was raised with this. I don't think anybody particularly said it to me, but I just always felt like I'm just not supposed to touch this stuff. I'm not supposed to talk about it. I'm not supposed to look into it. You know, it's all evil. Don't touch it. Don't think about it. Just pretend it's not there. And for me as an adult, I look at it. I'm like, well, clearly it is there. Clearly people are experiencing things, whether they're Christian, Hindu or whatever, like people experience supernatural occurrences. And I can't, me personally, I cannot ignore that. And I just, I have to just, I have to just, I, I I'm not saying I'm looking into finding the answers because I don't think personally, I don't think I'm ever going to totally understand all this stuff.

But I do think that it's worth my time to look at and try to understand and just hear people's stories and things like that. And kind of going back a little bit to what you said, I do want to remind you, though. I do want to remind you that in 1st Samuel chapter 28, Saul did tell a witch to summon the spirit of the dead prophet Samuel. because he needed answers. And when in the Bible where it tells that story, for all intents and purposes,

that which literally, the medium, literally did summon the spirit of Samuel. And Saul recognized the spirit as Samuel. So it kind of goes back to the whole idea of God directing us not to do certain things, even though it might be enticing to do so. And that's not just with summoning spirits, but that's a lot.

You know, like there's a lot of instruction in the Bible that's like, yeah, you can do this, but it's not always profitable. You know what I mean? Absolutely. Again, I'm not a Bible scholar, so, you know, don't take what I see with a grand salt. But did he recognize it to truly be Samuel or a vision of Samuel? The way I read it, and feel free to read yourself, I believe it's 1st Samuel 28. I think it's verse 7 through 20 something.

You'll read that story. You already have more credibility than me because you can quote what scripture in person is. Well, it's because I look into it. You're probably right. I don't know, but I know I'm baggly familiar with what you're talking about. I've heard that. I've read that story before.

But it seems to me, didn't this witch live in a place that was of terrible odor and stench and filth? I mean, wasn't this wasn't a witch yourself sort of? a dark entity? Sure, but I mean that's... I mean, we're going way out. No, no, no. We're talking it, we're talking it, man. But that's the point though, right?

That even though she, the witch is, say the witch is a dark, evil person, right? It's still a person. It's still a human being doing things that it's not supposed to be doing, even though it has the ability to do, right? And so, I don't know. I find it interesting.

And the only reason why I know this, that scripture so well, because I look into this stuff, and that's, you know, one of my, you know, go-to thoughts when I think about this stuff, because in that story, when I read it, and anybody can feel free to go read it for themselves, but when I read it... I do. I hope everyone does. Sure. When I read it, though, I really, like, I really feel like Saul saw the Spirit of Samuel. He communicated with the Spirit of Samuel, and for that there's anywhere in those scriptures, it doesn't give me any... reason to believe that it wasn't the Spirit of Samuel. And so there's like, there's people that will,

you know, take that and they'll say, okay, well, God allowed it to happen just this one time, but every other time it's not real. Well, you can't say that. You know, like, if it's possible, then it's possible. And if somebody who supposedly is not a good person, not not in right standing with God as a witch does something, they're not the only witch and ever exist in the history of the planet that was able to do something like that. And so... You're absolutely right.

And I'm going to back up just so everybody knows, I did not summon this thing. This was not my intention. I was walking away from what was a very bad situation and separating myself from it. I was having perhaps evil thoughts or ill thoughts. And so maybe that's why a dark thing happened to me. Or perhaps it wasn't a dark thing.

Perhaps it was a neutral thing. Perhaps there was an angel. And I think that's a thought that I haven't fully developed. But who is to stop that from being the case? How come every time we talk about, how come when we talk about these things does it end up being if it's not a ghost then it's evil how come sometimes it's not if it's not a ghost it's an angel so right oftentimes you know this is sort of another subject but when people talk about having out-of-body experiences so often

they talk about going to the light and it was so much better and and they saw the people what they love. So why do you never hear anybody who says they went to hell and came back? Why is it always kind of one or the other? Why could this not have been a positive entity that is an angel? I guess I haven't fully developed that thought in my mind because it's only recently came to me in the last few weeks. Literally in the last few weeks it occurred to me. This isn't a ghost story. Maybe it's an angel story. I don't know. I don't know what it is. Yeah, no, that's absolutely possible. I think that's something. something that maybe is looked over a lot. And I don't know why. Maybe it's just a default kind of thing

where people just automatically think ghost, evil spirits, things like that. But I mean, the Bible talks about angels coming too, right? I mean, the Bible talks about how you could be in a presence of an angel and not know it. And that's why I think it was Paul instructing people to be kind to one another because you never know or be hospitable to one another because you never know when you're in the presence of an angel. And I think in the Old Testament, it talks about how angels came to a town and the town was so corrupt with immorality that the people in the town wanted to have sexual relationships with the angel. There was two angels with the angels. So like, I mean, clearly angels could be part of the equation here that kind of gets overlooked a lot. That's a very good point.

And as a Christian, I certainly believe that there are angels. And I certainly believe that angels do assist us from time to time, whether we know it or not. I think there are, I, this is my thought again, taking it with grand salt, but I think it's just as good a chance that it was a positive entity helping you. It's just as good of a chance. that it was a positive entity that caused you to be late, and then five minutes later you drive past an accident on the highway as it is an evil entity that visited you and dreamed. I think there's just as much positive, angelic influence in this world

as there is an evil influence in this world, but for some reason we seem to naturally drift toward the evil. no you're absolutely right we like horror movies how often do people watch angel movies people watch horror movies all the time right for some reason we like to get the hell scared out of us I guess

well you know I'll tell you what I mean what you just said reminded me of a story and I believe this story to be true because my grandfather told it to me and it was pretty much on his deathbed when my grandfather was sick. He had cancer. He died from cancer. For about a week or two, he spent his time in a hospital right in the same city I was working. I used to be a parking enforcement officer in Reading,

Pennsylvania. Shout out to Reading. And he, every night, I would have to work, I would punch out and I'd go over to the hospital, the Reading Hospital, and I'd sit down and I'd talk with him and just kind of spend some time with him. It was really nice because I didn't get to spend a whole lot of time with him in his later years because, you know, I lived about an hour away, and it was just kind of kind of hard. Anyways, we got to talking, and he, my grandfather, I like to call him, he was like a traveling evangelist. He was a blue collar worker guy.

I think he did washer and dryer repair. He did a lot of different things like that. But on weekends, he took every opportunity he could to go and preach at different places. A lot of big tent revival kind of things back in the 60s, 70s. And he told me one story where they were not welcome in a. town that they went to. A lot of the people were upset that they were there. And they came anyways. They set up. They did their thing. And there was a rumor going around that the local guys of the town were going to come out and, you know, tear up the camp and all that stuff at night once

everything was over. And so when they found this out, they, the guys decided to stay up overnight, hang out around, you know, the tent and their whole setup and just make sure nothing bad happened. And sure enough, in the middle of the night, there's like a car or two that comes down this driveway up towards where they're hanging out at. And they get to a certain point and they just stop. They won't go any further. And then the car is backed out and they left. And then they came back a little bit later with more cars. And they stopped at the same spot.

They idled. They backed out and they left. And I think they came back a third time with more cars and they all just stopped in the same spot. They idled and then they left. And it's weird. They didn't know what was going on, but they figured, okay, the guys changed their mind. They didn't want to bother them. So the next day, some of the guys are in town and they're just kind of getting bread and food and all that stuff for back at the camp.

And it must have been like the talk of the town, my grandfather said, because it turns out that night those guys, they went there with every intent to tear apart the camp, do some serious damage, maybe even beat the guys up. I don't know. But as they were driving down the driveway, every time they would see these angels standing in the field near the tent, just guarding the area. Now, my grandfather said they never saw anything like that. But the guys that were coming there to destroy the place saw it every time they came down the driveway. And that's why they kept them bringing more and more cars for people to see what they're seeing. And so it must have been like the talk of the town. And, they didn't obviously they didn't ransack the place because they were too scared to go near these giant angels they apparently were really tall angels and uh so i mean that's just another story of you know a case of entities being actual angels and um yeah i i find it really interesting maybe one day i'll actually play i actually have that on audio recording uh i thought enough to record some of the stories my grandfather shared with me uh some miraculous stories the only problem is the audio quality is awful. So if I do play it on the show,

people will have to just bear with me because it's just, I was done with a handheld recorder in a hospital with a lot of machines going and stuff like that. So be it, let it, that's fantastic. How many people get to share those or listen to those kinds of stories?

Listen to their grandfather, tell those kinds of stories years later. Yeah. I mean, that would be just fantastic to hear. Well, maybe maybe I'll play it on this show. I think that's what I'll do. After we're done with the interview, I'll play it on the end of this show.

I hope you'll consider it at least. Yeah, I think I will. I think I will because I think I actually had it up on YouTube for a while and I took it down. And I think maybe I'll put it up on this show since we're talking about it. I've been waiting for a good time to put it up. So I'll put it up on this show. But Mark, I really appreciate you coming on here, man, and sharing your experiences and stuff because, you know, I find it fascinating. And whether you think

it was a ghost, an angel, or whatever, it's just good stuff to talk about. And, you know, obviously you put it behind you. You've moved on and stuff. But it's still, I really appreciate coming on and talking about it. Yeah. Thanks for, thanks for allowing me to. And just knowing that you and I were going to talk about this has caused me to think about it. And it's allowed me to start to kind of kick around that idea that perhaps it wasn't a negative thing. Perhaps it was angelic. Perhaps it was a positive intervention. So, yeah, it's, but the one thing I want to stress, I just, I'm going to say this again.

Sometimes stories that can be awful hard to believe or, or you think, well, that's your perception. Well, as sure as I'm standing in this hotel room right now, those things happen. me and there's no taking that back. So thanks for letting me tell it. Yeah, absolutely, man. And I'm really glad you came on. And I'm really glad it's got your wheels turning again, man.

So I really appreciate it. And like I always say to everybody, if you ever have anything else you'd want to share, just feel free to get a hold of me. We'll do that. Thank you very much. Have your night. You too. Bye.

Well, that's the show, everybody. Like I said during the interview, I'm going to play some audio of my grandfather sharing some miraculous stories. with me when he was on his deathbed in the hospital. I had a handheld recorder and I recorded some of his stories and I'm going to play it for you tonight. Just remember the audio quality is not that great. We were in a hospital. There's nurses coming in. There's machines running. So you're not going to be able to hear it like you do hear my voice right now. But it is my grandfather sharing some miraculous things that he experienced and saw during his life and ministry. Hope you enjoy.

can't see or something is wrong with them. And you pray for them. And they turn around and walk away. And that malady or that sickness or whatever is gone. And people will say, oh, it's just a turn to your imagination. No, it's not. I saw it happen. It was these two hands that went on somebody.

his head and prayed and that person walked away, you know. And once that happened, you're a different person. What I want to tell you is not brag, this is bad. When it comes to this stuff, I don't like how to brag or docheon doesn't block. We had gone up to this event and during that time, and that great time, I was pretty close to grabbing up. We used to go back. We had up to I used to go, but now and again, if we could get somebody to watch the kids, or maybe we'd take them along, we'd go up to Higgins's farm, just outside of Nutropoli. Nice old couple, really a nice old couple. That is nice big, a little farmhouse, and Cy was in that side and Russ Rooks, and

I can't remember some of the others. But those two prominent. We went up there, we used to go up there, what was in one Tuesday night of, it was in one Tuesday night a month or was in every other Tuesday, I don't recall. But we used to go up there in like one or two Tuesdays, at least two Tuesdays a month. Take the kids along out, or if we could get a babysitter on the kids. And all the time I'm still serving on the board.

I didn't have been elevated or anything else, and still sit. And we went up to one Tuesday night. Grandly had to stay home with kids for some reason or another. And I went up and

we'd sit around in a circle. You know, we start talking about one thing and another, talk about the Lord. I'm singing a couple songs. Or maybe we pray for this, pray for that. And

the fellow walked in and said that long of Saturday. I can't recall who it was. I just don't remember. I just don't remember. It escapes me. But the guy came in, sat down the love side of me. And he said, how are you doing, Jack was hurt? Pretty good.

He said, what did you think of that trip? He went on. He said, what did you think of that trip? I said, man, that was awesome. He said, do you remember that one girl you prayed for up there? I said, Jesus, I really know. I said, you pray for so many people. hard the single one out. So he tried to narrow it down and said, oh yeah. He said, I remember her.

I said, she couldn't see very well. He said, yeah, she was only blind. I said, whatever happened to her? I said, did you, have you found anything out where she healed? He said, oh yeah. He said, she got her sight back, told me. He said, and she was also starting to lose her here. She got a hearing. And it rocks you back on your knee. And that's the way it went. Well, our whole young lives, a whole young Christian lives was like that.

And you couldn't watch it happen. Why does God do it like that? I'll tell you why. Because I think he's trying to educate you or me or whoever. What's the greatest thing in the world that grabs your attention? Miracle. Why is it so easy to believe? Because we all know that Jesus.

Work miracles. He was known for them. So he said, and then you start to ask, why me? And then it's like the Holy Spirit says, don't go there. Just enjoy the ride and learn. We went down to the camp.

Another scenario. We used to go down there to camp. Every weekend we could. Over to 17. People down there didn't like that. because it ain't like Holy Rollers home there. They're meeting, okay. But that's okay, we kept it up anyway.

Every Friday, Saturday, Sunday night, we'd have a prayer meeting. Up in a tent, there was an area up here. We had a big tent in the congregate. And a couple of the kids played instruments, so we had our own music. And then down here, down in this section, is where they had some trailers park, campers, that kind of.

Over here there was a pavilion that we eat at, you know, there'd a couple of grills there to make supper and all the last. Oh, that's that. And the people around didn't like it. So they were trying to get out of the county or out of the community anyway. So one night, we heard that there was supposed to be some guys who were going to storm the place and make a mess up. But that didn't deter us any, you know.

We're still going to have our meeting. So we went at our meeting. We quit early, start. We all sat in that pavilion. That's the fact. We all sat in that pavilion. And we were wondering, well, when are these clowns going to make them move?

So you see these cars drive down, we're going to pull in, and it'd sit there in the aisle, and idle, and they back off. Boy, one over a short period of time like that. Just didn't let it bother. I think that was on, if I'm not mistaken, it was either on a Friday or Saturday night. Yeah, because the next morning we got together a park.

That'd be on Saturday. It's just Sunday morning, we went to the church service. Afterwards, you go your own way, you know. Go back to the trailer or the camp or that you were in, you know, whatever. and just enjoy the day. During the course of the day, people come over, you know, intermingle, and he's standing there, and you're looking at that person, that person is looking at you, and you're wondering,

are they going to say what I'm going to say or, you know, what? And then all of a sudden, somebody will say, did you see what I saw last night? And they'll say, well, I saw something, what did you see? And this is fact, not one, sometimes two or three at a time, would come up and he'd come up to that entrance. And they didn't go any further. They just stayed there. And then they turned around and go back.

We never knew what the heck was. So later on, one of the people had gone into town for some one thing or another. And when he came back, this must have been the time. talk to a little town, I guess this person happened to go into a store or whatever, buy gas or whatever. Anyway, this is what she told us. She said, you know last night. There was no one less since so many cars came out of there, they were going to invade the place. And we said, well, what happened? They said that when they got there, they saw angels standing across the field. wouldn't let nobody fast.

And you stand there and you listen to this and you regrets over what happened that I could pour. And you think more and more fills up your faith. Now you saw this here and you were on this tripper and you saw that.

Now you're down here and now somebody tells you something I tell you something all the other thing. Wow. And that's what builds up your faith. But you have to have the desire to explore that and say, okay, let's see if it's really real. Let's see if it really works. And when you do that and you put it to the test, it'll work every time.

Every time. And the thing that helped me the most in my growth and grammar, in our Christian growth, is the fact that we were surrounded by spiritual Christians who believed in that kind of and they weren't ashamed of it and they weren't afraid to take the step and the thing you one of the major things to do is to keep yourself surrounded and don't only surround yourself with them become some of them or one of them and become as strong as they are so that you can give somebody else the same benefit. What it's all about.

Well, that's my grandfather, and hopefully you guys enjoyed listening to that. I love listening to his voice, so whenever I feel like I miss the guy, I just kind of pull those audio files out and I listen to him again. And if you are interested in hearing the full 30-minute version of that, go to my Facebook page, Facebook.com, backslash T.B. Merkel, or you can look up Tony Merkel on Facebook. Fram requests me, and you'll see that I posted a link there this morning with the full version of what all he had to say to me that day.

I hope you guys have a great week. Take care. Stay safe. And I'll see you right here next Saturday night on the Confessionals.