The Confessionals - 556: Non-Human Intelligence Warfare

Episode Date: June 20, 2023

In Episode 556: Non-Human Intelligence Warfare we are joined by former counterintelligence agent, Walter Bosley! Today is an Overtime episode with the first hour for the public and the second hour for members of The Confessionals. In this first hour, we've invited Walter to talk to us about the current surge of UFO-related information, courtesy of David Grusch—a whistleblower who boldly claims that extraterrestrial crafts and beings exist on Earth. While David Grusch's revelations have shocked many people throughout the world, Walter, drawing on his expertise as a former counterintelligence agent, presents an alternative viewpoint. He suggests that what we're witnessing might be a complex perception management operation—where truths, lies, and half-truths intertwine to manipulate our understanding. Walter dives into the possibility that these beings might not originate from outer space but instead exist within other realms and dimensions. Non-Human Intelligence, residing in these hidden dimensions, transcend their boundaries to visit our world, making Earth their home away from home. This episode delves into a wealth of thought-provoking topics, including space wars and interdimensional conflicts involving otherworldly beings. Walter guides us through this information, unraveling the intricacies and inviting us to question our perception of reality.In our exclusive overtime segment, Walter shares astonishing revelations about his own father, who he believes was a victim of the infamous MK-Ultra program. We explore the depths of how his father's very being was altered by this covert operation. But that's not all, we also touch upon the intriguing GATE program, as we prepare for an upcoming show featuring a lady who had a firsthand involvement in it. Walter, having been part of the GATE program himself, has intimate knowledge of it. He shares his personal insights and experiences in the overtime discussion. Walter BosleyYouTube: @AdventureMan6399Books: lostcontinentlibrary.com Website: walterbosley.comThe Confessionals Members App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZBecome a member for AD FREE listening and EXTRA shows: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinCome Meet Tony:1. Smoky Mountain Bigfoot ConferenceTickets: https://bit.ly/3l1wZHR2. LIVE SHOW in Gatlinburg, TN!Tickets: https://bit.ly/3IC4IkxWatch Expedition Dogman: https://bit.ly/3CE6Kg0Tony's Studio Equipment: linktr.ee/mystudiogearSPONSORSGET EMP Shield: empshield.com Coupon Code: "tony" for $50 off every item you purchase! Listen to this episode for more information! Link: bit.ly/3YaMD1NGET SIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsGET Hello Fresh: hellofresh.com/confessionals60 Promo Code: "confessionals16" for 16 free meals plus free shipping!!!Get Emergency Food Supplies: www.preparewiththeconfessionals.comCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] to the Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/the-newsletterSOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIDiscord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelAre you a military veteran struggling with thoughts of suicide?Contact Watchman Readiness Corps for REAL help. A veteran-run organization that is designed to help through hands-on survival training.Website: wrc.vetEmail: [e-mail]: [phone]Instagram: wrc_survivalFacebook: colbywrcvetOUTRO MUSICVanTesla - ShutUp N DriveYouTube | Apple Music | Spotify

Everyone, before we get to this week's episode, I want to let the members know we have an overtime available. Today is an overtime episode. I haven't done one in a while, and I know many of you guys skipped through the intros, you little suckers. So I wanted to give you a heads up before you skip the intro that there is an overtime episode available today. If you guys so choose to listen, head on over to the website or the app for the overtime after you listen to this first half of the episode. Let's go. Merkel Media. This was all circulating around the base

that a giant had been killed but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, boning fingers reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave

and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing up This giant moves. He's got a spear in one hand and he's running really fast. It spears, Dan, holds them up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face. They basically decapitated. Something pulling at my leg.

And I look over and there are two small, really, I'm getting pulled off the bed. I'm getting pulled off the bed. I ended in this bush and I touch air. Couldn't breathe and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. Welcome to the show, everybody listening to The Confessionals Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Merkel.

Thanks for being here. If you've a crazy wild experience, you want to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is contact at theconfessionalspodcast.com. That's Contact at the confessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the contact section, and you can reach me that way as well. Either it works for me, just get a hold of me. If you want more shows on a weekly basis, we drop a member show every Thursday on the confessionals website and on the Confessionals app.

get access to those episodes. Also, the Tuesday episodes ad free. And you can get the overtime segments when they're available on the app and the website. And today is an overtime segment. So if you want the overtime for today's episode and all the other membership content, go to the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the join button in top right hand corner and become a member today. All right, listen, we are doing t-shirt pre-sales. Yay. I know a lot of people have been wanting more t-shirts. A lot of people missed the actual logo t-shirt we dropped earlier this year. So it's back. We're doing the logo t-shirt again. And we have two new designs. We have the Beast of Bray Road design, which is absolutely awesome. It has a dog man standing in a field in Wisconsin. It's a freaking awesome design and a

Tennessee bigfoot hunting design where Bigfoot is carrying an AR with the logo of Tennessee behind him. You guys are going to absolutely love these t-shirts. Go ahead and check them out on the website. They're available right now on the website in the store tab. Just go to the website. the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the store and get your pre-order in now because between now today, the 20th of June, through the 30th of June, we're taking pre-orders. After that date, we're done taking pre-orders. The members have been able to take pre-orders starting last week at a discount. This week and next week, we're doing pre-orders for everybody. And after the 30th, we're cutting it off and we're setting the order to printers. So if you want these t-shirts, any three t-shirts,

go ahead and check them out right now at the store on the confessionalspodcast.com. Now, today we have a great guest coming on. We have Walter Bosley joining us on the show. And you see, Walter, he's going to give us an overtime segment where he gets into his dad because his dad was part of the MK Ultra programming, like literally MK Ultra and his dad. And we get into a great conversation about that, the Gate Program, because we have a coming member show next Thursday talking to a lady who was actually involved in the Gate program.

And Walter has plenty of things to say about the Gate Program because Walter was in the gate program. And we talk about that in the overtime segment, also his dad being part of MK Ultra and other things in the overtime. But in this segment, because Walter is a former counterintelligence agent, we decided to bring Walter on to talk about all this UFO stuff that's being released right now through David Grush. Now, David Grush, if you haven't known, he is the whistleblower that came out saying we're in possession of craft that weren't made on earth. We have bodies. And I'm blowing the whistle. Well, it seems like Walter feels like that may not be totally true and we might be living through a perception management operation where

they give us some truth, some lies and some half truth, half lies. We talk about these things with Walter and what he thinks about all this UFO stuff coming out, but also how some of the truths in there actually are true and are put there for a reason like the fact that these may not be beings, or at least not all these beings, may not be coming from outer space, but rather with in our space, but other realms, other physical dimensions that we don't have access to, but other beings, entities that live in those dimensions are able to transcend the dimension and come here, but they actually house themselves here on Earth just in another realm. We talk about a lot of things in this episode, including space wars, wars from other beings,

whether it's realms or space coming here for humanity. We talk about it all. So let's get to Walter in this fantastic conversation right now. All right, today we have Walter Bosley on the show. How are you, sir? Pretty good. How you doing, Tony? Doing good. So we just connected and I said, let's just save it for the recording.

I am particularly glad. I have a pretty busy schedule, and sometimes I have to reschedule people multiple times. People have to reschedule with me. And with you and I, it was just back and forth. and I found out about you on somebody else's podcast. I remember last summer I had just moved to Tennessee and I was mowing my jungle of a lawn because it was all like waist high and I didn't know if there was rocks that I come over.

So I literally went through over an acre weed whacking the whole thing. And it was a nightmare. But the whole time I was listening to many podcasts and I don't remember whose show you were on, but you were a guest. And I found you fascinating. And I immediately reached out to you to have you on. And we went back and forth and over the last, I don't know, year, we've just kind of like bounced back and forth with getting each other on the schedule.

But I feel like sometimes things work out for best because, you know, we just had this UFO whistleblower situation come out. And I was thinking myself, who better than to have you on for this? And I'm excited to introduce you to the audience. I don't know who knows you, who doesn't. So if you could maybe take the second to just kind of introduce yourself to the people as to who you are, maybe your background. Because what I do know, what I reached out to you, what I reached out to you, what I had in my mind was your dad's story and your take on your dad's story. And we'll touch on that today and how that equates to the, to what's going on in today's world. But let the people know who you are. Who is Walter Bosley? Well, I spent, and this is the reason I often get asked to talk about certain things. I spent 20 years in the U.S. national security community between the FBI and the Air Force OSI and working for some other guys in counterterrorism and such.

And my time in the Air Force, of course, was as a special agent of the Air Force OSI, which is legendary or infamous in the UFO community, depending upon your perspective. And I spent that time in particular in counterespionage and program protection counterintelligence. So during my time in the Air Force, you know, having a pretty decent clearance and what I did specifically in my specialty. I was exposed to a lot of Air Force classified technology, you know, both already applied in the field and in development. So it gives you, you know, anybody with that experience that I have, you know, you're going to have a particular perspective on the whole UFO mystery,

you know, so to speak, that is not always popular. But after, let's see, I established a publishing label, oh, probably about three or four years. No? A few years, less than 10 years before I essentially retired, so to speak, from the national security community, and focused on publishing initially fiction. And then I wrote my first nonfiction book about the arcane esoteric engineering of Disneyland. And that came out in early 2008.

And that really kicked me off on pursuing and writing nonfiction. So over the years, since the Disneyland book came out in 2008, I've done about 14 or 15 nonfiction books from occult murder to, again, my favorite word, arcane history. and UFOs and MK Ultra, which you mentioned the book about my dad, which we'll get into. And breakaway civilizations, and the interesting thing is, as different as all those seem,

one, each one of those books led to the other, and there are actually threads connecting all the nonfiction stuff I've done. So I've become kind of the guy that pulls the threads of history leading up to our current times to give, I hope, a more clarified perspective on what has led up to some of the mysteries of today. So that's what I am.

And it's very interesting. And the books that you're writing, I can see, I was browsing through the books and I can see how one could lead to another because I kind of felt like that. I was like, I wonder if that has anything to do with this. And in the research, I imagine you come across information and you're just like, oh, that's a rabbit trail that we're not going to take right now because we're on this, but we're going to circle back to that for sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah. In fact, specifically that happened with, I wrote the Disneyland book, and that involved what is popularly called Laylines, but what is technically more Tulleric current, kind of the Tesla World Power Grid on the globe.

And I was following up on research related to that within the context of the Disneyland book. And that led to reports of a ghost in a mall here in San Bernardino Valley, which is where I live, the Inland Empire. And that ghost story led to what appeared to me to be seven serial murders with occult motive in 1915. And as I was pulling the same threads that led to that, some threads emerged about the explorer, Portuguese explorer Juan Cabrillo, who was well known in the state of California because he was the first. European to in the 16th century explore California. What we know today is California. And just as you said, I held off on that one. In fact, I held back on the Juan Cabrio data, even though it was coming in through three books on the other mystery. And after I finished the third book, that series is called Empire of the Wheel. After I finished that, then I finally jumped into the Juan

Cabrillo book, and that opened a whole other series of books of which now there are five, and I'm working on the sixth. Unreal. That's really cool. Now, you mentioned about Santa Berndino. Is that near Joshua Tree by any chance? I'm not sure. Joshua Tree is about an hour and a half east of where I'm at.

Okay. Not too far. The Integratron, if you've heard of the Integratron, the strange little dome, shaped building, which has a history in the UFO contactee world. That's only about, and a little over an hour east of where I live, and Joshua Tree is just beyond that. Okay. I asked because I did an episode, I think it was episode 512. I called it a desert portal death cult. I had a guy on the show who shared an extraordinary experience about essentially being lured into the desert of Joshua Tree where he spent over a day at this seemingly rave party.

They put like a VIP bracelet on him, even though he wasn't planning on being there and he was just kind of like seemingly randomly brought there. They labeled him as a VIP and he laid out in very much detail about what he went through at night that seems like he was part of some kind of a cult ritual. And I, I aired that episode, and then there was another guy who was listening to that episode that was stationed at 29 Palms. And he contacted me about how he took one of the soldiers out to Joshua Tree years ago to a party in the desert that seemed to be almost identical to what my guest was describing. When I sent him the coordinates of where this happened, he said that's exactly where he took this other guy to. And it seems like on the surface level of

what I've found, it seems like there might be some kind of yearly annual occultic big party bash where weird things happen. And I didn't know if you have ever heard of such things in your research. well, yeah, in a general sense, occultists and terrorists, not that they do the same things, but they share a similar adherence to calendars, you know, important dates, of course. That would not surprise me that there'd be something like that going on out there

because all manner of interesting things go on out in that desert and, you know, they can expect pretty much all the privacy they need. When you go out there yourself, you see exactly how it's very conducive to privacy like that. And 29 Palms is right there, right there next to where the Integratron that I mentioned before is located. the fence line for the base comes right up to the ridge there. And when you're out in Joshua Tree, it's a huge base, huge base. And you can see all sorts of interesting things going on, particularly when they're doing exercises, that kind of thing,

which makes it even more interesting that there's any kind of a cult activity going on so close to a military installation. But again, it's so big that a lot of it is just open desert, you know, exactly like what's on the other side of the fence. But this area, what I referred to as the Inland Empire, which is San Bernardino Valley, Riverside, and like Rancho Cucamonga, and into what's called Upland and all that. This is well known for occult groups and good old-fashioned Satan worship specifically. So, you know, Southern California's got a big history of that throughout the region and the desert communities are just a great place to do all manner of weird things and not be seen. You know, I've only been to California one time. It was in 2017. I went to San Francisco for my vacation before my son was born with my wife. And so I don't, I've never spent a whole lot of time out there. But

based off of what you just said with, and I didn't expect to go this route, we'll circle back to the UFO stuff in a second. Sure. Based off of what you just said with the history of, you know, the good old fashioned Satan worship in Southern California, I think you said, Do you think that there's a, so I'm sure you've heard the conspiracy theorist and all that stuff. And I've talked to people who have had some very dark experiences inside the Hollywood industry. Do you think that that kind of culture actually has seeped into Hollywood? Or do you think that's something that maybe is more fabrication than not? anywhere that you have people in any kind of culture where power is essential, that social power,

you are going to have somebody dabbling in such arts. Some people call them the black arts, just because of, you know, the nature of the intention, right? Now, UFOs and the occult go hand in hand. My one UFO experience that I've had happened on the night of the very same day that I was investigating what appears to be some, again, I use those words esoteric and arcane technology, so to speak. and I totally connect that UFO experience I had with what I was doing out of this location where this thing is painted on the ground. Wow. So do you think that was, I mean, I guess just go into that then.

I mean, what was this experience? Like, what were you looking into the day of that you had that experience? Well, this thing that I found painted on the ground I had found years before, and I went out with an associate. And we measured all the dimensions of this figure painted on the blacktop or cement on a lot of private property. So I don't identify the property, kind of private, semi-public. and I had had some really wild experiences standing in the middle of this thing some years before. In fact, four years prior to seeing the UFO, I had seen the vision of a goddess on a hillside.

Now, what do I mean by that? I don't mean like a woman standing there in a costume glowing bright like some ancient Greek goddess. what it was was the image of like a portrait, head and shoulders of the ancient goddess Athena, complete with the owl on her shoulder, wearing her helmet. And it was as if it was kind of burned naturally into the hillside. Now, I did some follow-up research, and there were no schools out there with no mascots of Spartans or Athena or anything like that. And it was the only time I've ever seen it.

And at that time, I had never seen it again. And so, you know, four years later, I finally get around to, hey, maybe I should measure the dimensions of this thing in case somebody, my thought was somebody might paint over it. You know, somebody who doesn't know what the heck it is. So we went out there, measured all the dimensions, and then later that evening, this object, which domed top, flat bottom, comes flying, floating over my neighborhood from the general direction of the location of this thing painted on the ground that I told you about. it stops over the house. Another member of the household is the one who came in to tell me about it. I run outside.

Excuse my cough. I run outside. And there this thing is. I run in, get my camera, and I caught it on video. It's up there. There's this illumination inside, spinning around, rotating. It's silent. no sound, it's not making any sound.

And then it starts moving away, and as it moves away, it's dumping this molten substance, this white-hot molten substance over the side profusely. And then it moved away in the general cardinal direction that you would go out to the Integratron, the Yucca Valley Joshua Tree area. So I look at the video and as gets reported more often than people realize, it was as if the object was farther away than our eyes were seeing it on the video. The video did not look as clear as what we were seeing with our eyes.

The object looked farther away. So while I do have video of the event and I was able to do screen. captures of it, it is in no way as detailed as our eyes were seeing. Now, of course, I made the other witness describe to me, tell me what you're seeing, be specific. And he did, and so in that way I was able to verify and confirm that he was seeing exactly what I was seeing. So following the path that this thing took, I found a charcoal-like substance along the direction. Remember I told you there was this molten stuff dropping.

Well, I found this charcoal-like substance that when I tried to gather it carefully into a baggy like evidence, it pretty much crumbled into dust. and it wasn't until years later that I had drawn the thing and I'm studying the drawing and I'm saying, wow, this thing looks really familiar. And then it dawns on me that the shape of the UFO was identical to the dimensions and the shape of the domed top of the Integatron building itself. Wow.

And the fact that it moved in the direction of the Integratron, generally, I mean, you'd have to drive an hour or so to get there, I found that to be not insignificant. Well, subsequent research, which I'm still pulling threads on, has revealed to me that there may very well be a connection between the Integratron and this thing that I found painted. out on this lot of this property north of San Bernardino. So I'm in the middle of still trying to explain this. But nothing about this experience appears to have had anything to do with extraterrestrials or people from other planets. It appears to have had everything to do with whatever this thing is, I call it the mandala.

Whatever this thing is painted on the ground, whatever it actually is. And I do have some ideas, but I'm working them out. And it's something that could definitely be used for some type of ritual magic or contacting other dimensions, one could argue. And with the experience I had of what I saw on the mountainside, I followed through on that when I had made the connection of the shape of the UFO to the Integratron. And using Google Earth, I was able to find features in the terrain that, in my opinion, on that particular day, at that particular time, the way the sunlight was shining on the hillside, I think I found the features that from a particular angle looked exactly like the image of Athena with the owl on her shoulder.

So it has been really interesting to look into this from that perspective and find even more reason that to, I guess, not identify it with the typical all UFOs or ET. I come from the perspective that there's something else going on, you know, something that might be Young in, you know, from Carl Jung's perspective, something that might be from, you know, what John Keel tells us in his writing

and what Jacques Valet used to tell us in his earlier best research, that there's, you know, somebody else here sharing this reality with us and they communicate with these things and in other strange ways. So that's a whole other, you know, way of looking at UFOs that again has been around and pointed out, but isn't quite as popular, or hasn't been quite as popular as the whole ET thing. You know, but is there nonetheless. Oh, it's absolutely there. And what you're saying, and I'm not familiar exactly with what those guys said about the phenomenon, but I'm kind of getting what you're hinting at here.

And if I'm correct, you're pointing more towards an interdimensional aspect. That's something that I have been increasingly on the train of over the last, I'd say, three or four years. Before that, I wasn't sure. I just, when it came to E.T., I wasn't really, the jury was still after me. I was just like, I don't know what these things are. I don't know. Because, I mean, I wasn't putting it past the idea that it was our own government doing weird experiments on people. And I, the more I've become aware of other dimensions, the reality that

there are things popping in and out of those dimensions, the more it's conceivable that what we're dealing with is something that didn't come light years away, but rather than that, they exist here just in a different realm. And what's interesting is that you say that and that we can set, well, all right, so we can segue kind of into what's been coming out. I am interested at some point here to kind of maybe backtrack a little bit and kind of dig more into how the UFO phenomenon and the occult kind of intertwined for you. and I'm assuming it has a lot to do with summoning and interdimensionalism.

And does that mean that our own government is probably pursuing some kind of a cultic way to communicate with these things? I'm just throwing it out there. But David, I think his last name is Grush, right? Is that you pronounce it, Grush? David Grush? Yeah, Grush is the, he's the recent one that's been offered to us. Yes.

All right. So the way you say that, I love it, okay? Because I was just texting with, are you familiar with Tim Poole on YouTube? Oh, yeah. Okay. So I'm friends with several of his people that work for him.

And I was texting with Shane Cashman this morning about this. And Shane and I are kind of on the fence about this whole thing because I kind of fall on this idea that there are truths and lies and a lot of things that get released. And they give you the pieces of truth that they want to give you, surrounded by a bunch of lies to keep you off on the wrong trail. And I don't know much about David Grush at all, but when this all came out,

he struck me as somebody who was just being overly matter of fact about things that I felt like in my gut, I was like, if I'm going to, if I had this information to drop and I'm going to do this, I'm nervous. I'm going to be straight face. I'm going to be serious. I'm going to be like, but he was just more like, well, believe it or not, yep.

And it's just like, hmm. Golly. Yeah. But I was texting with, I don't know if you're familiar with Darcy Weir. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. So I'm friends with Darcy as well.

And Darcy is very much on board with supporting David. And I told Darcy, I said, I just don't know how I feel about it. But one thing is David talks about things that you kind of hinted at here about the, one, he didn't want to say alien. He said, NHI, which is non-human intelligence. And he talks about NHI existing in other planes of reality here on Earth. And I was like, well, that kind of jives with what I think. And I just wonder, are there pieces of truths that are being released strategically?

Or is he sincere? I mean, I'm kind of just loading the chamber right now for you to let you just kind of go wherever you want. And I feel free to disagree with me or anybody else. I'm fine with that. I just want to hear your thoughts on the matter. Yeah. Well, first of all, where I stand on it, just because my personal experience with the UFO has not been in the ET variety, I do think ETs have been coming here for ages and continue to do so.

I just think that they explain a very small percentage of legitimate UFO reports, because let's face it, there's a lot of people out there that just want to be part of the fun. So it's kind of a different brand of Me Too. I saw one too. I saw one too. So people report stuff that isn't true. But of the stuff that's legitimate, ET presents, in my opinion, a very small slice. And really so do.

I think the interdimensional thing represents a much bigger percentage than E.T. represents. But still, I throw it out there, in my opinion, 90% of legitimate UFO sightings are classified human technology in some stage of development or use. Now, as far as Grush is concerned, here's the thing. okay, you know, oh, gee, here's his angle. He's going to include these NHIs. Well, this is a theme that's been out in our community now for a few decades. I see Grush as this. He has the pedigree of, you know, the U.S. military intel community. He looks to me like good soldier, good airmen who's in the Air Force, doing another Intel gig, which in my

opinion is going to, it has something to do with perception management relative to our technology. In other words, the UFO community is not the primary intended audience of this kind of thing. It is a side audience. What they want to do is control the narrative in the UFO community. So they put this guy out here. He's one of many that, in my opinion, has been paraded out in front of us since 2017. Yes, I am referring to Elizondo and all that stuff that got a bunch of newbies excited. He says enough things that will perk the ear, Grush says enough things that will perk the ears of people in the community. And they're hoping that it will, for instance, mentioning the NHA,

that that'll give, ooh, some type of gravitas. This isn't just another ET UFO guy. See, we're hip to what's really going on, guys. And could this be real stuff? Well, here's the thing. He is no real whistleblower, in my opinion, because there appears to be zero consequence to him being a whistleblower, to him revealing anything.

When you do that, particularly if you're going to do that from the military intelligence community, believe me, your experience is going to be much more like that of Gary McKinnon, you know, where you've got to stay away from the U.S. or Julian Assange where, you know, you've got to hole up somewhere because that machine's going to come at you. if you're a real whistleblower and you're really intending to reveal true information, you're not going to be smiling and casual and lackadaisical and appearing on interviews here and there. Another thing you're not going to do if you're a real whistleblower. I hate to say it to our community, but a real whistleblower on this stuff ain't going to talk to you or me or even coast to coast or that boob, Jeremy Corbell. they're not going to talk to anybody in our community, okay? I'm sorry. They're going to be going to be going right to like them or not, good or not, they're going to go to those mainstream news sources,

okay, or they're going to use the internet to just kind of do a big reveal that can't be easily controlled showing their evidence. And they're going to be prepared for, you know, federal agents to come knocking down the door if they, can find them. So, you know, any number of reasons why you can question this grush guy, the most obvious being, you know, he's just too, just too casual and relaxed about it. So it looks to me like, off the top of my head, it looks to me like one of two things. He's either on a perception management assignment, okay, still taking instructions from the military intelligence community, or he's off active duty, he's done with his duty, and he's looking to, you know, establish himself

in something fun, you know, the UFO community or whatever. But as far as being a legitimate whistleblower that's going to reveal something to us that we don't know, I say no. However, I do know this from personal experience in perception management. You often use something that's called passage material. Now, that usually comes into play in double agent operations. But your passage material is usually what you give the target to establish your bona fides. If you want to pretend, if you're going to be a double agent, you're going to pretend, I'm mad at America, I want to sell these secrets or I need the money because 99% of American traders do it for the money. We have a very bad but well-known reputation around the world.

The American traders, they're doing it for the money, 90% of the time. 99% of the time. Anyway, for whatever your ruse is, I'm mad at America, I want to sell you this stuff. Well, you don't want to give them 100% fake stuff because their scientists and their technicians are going to look at that and go, this is BS. You want to give them some legit stuff. that their scientists, the S&T guys can go, oh, this is their real technology.

Oh, wow. Okay, this is the real deal. This guy might be the real deal. So it's just operational wisdom and tactical wisdom to include some truth, some reality in your passage material. Now, in a perception management operation, which I think all these former U.S. government guys in UFO land

for the last, you know, several years, number of years actually are doing perception management, that passage material is going to be the little things that get hinted at, like Grush talking about NIHs. So in the sense of keeping to the known tactical wisdom of using passage material, yes, we could get a little legitimate info, but I'm going to say that that legitimate info isn't really going to be too far off of things that we in the community have figured out on our own or already know through other means, and they're just going to build their BS on top of that. And the intention is to get us off on a narrative. In other words, if we're getting too close to the truth by not looking at the ET hypothesis,

they're going to come out and push the ET hypothesis heavily, just like they've been doing since 2017. Imagine that. They really want us back on the ET track. They really want us thinking about ET. They don't want us thinking about advanced technology. And what's interesting is, okay, grush's little allusion to NIH is notwithstanding, I think there's probably reason that they might not want us looking too close at the interdimensional thing,

particularly if that has anything to do with the technology that they're trying to hide. The other side of the technology thing, though, with perception management is that they kind of want to, they kind of want to brandish it without admitting to the public exactly what it is. Here's where it can get tricky because they know that the intended target, say, Chinese military tech guys, Russian military tech guys, they know that that being the intended target, they'll interpret it for most likely what it really. is like the Tic Tac video. Advanced Navy technology. That's U.S. military technology being developed and anybody who says otherwise is just not doing their homework and just doesn't want to accept that. Now, the Chinese and the Russians, from the get-go, I guarantee you, they knew what that was. Now, people would say, well, then why don't they reveal that it's just the technology? Well, here's the problem. If they have spies close to the development of these technologies, they don't want to

to blow those operations. Okay. And if they're developing their own versions of, let's say, the TikTok, tick-tack technology, they don't want to reveal that. So in this ironic way, they don't spill the beans that it's that they suspect that it's U.S. technology because they don't want the U.S. to know how much they recognize that as technology. And it's this game of layers and maneuvers and stuff. And the public, the American UFO public in particular, is caught in the middle of all this and they're easy to do because all you got to do is get them excited to think that this is it, this is disclosure, which never really happens.

So I see Grush as just another player in this perception management game that's going on. Now, the dangerous side of that is when they're getting us to look at UFOs, if you'll notice, if you pay attention to what, you know, going back a few years, Lou Elizondo and others have said, and again, we again have these military people coming out. They have alluded to the potential threat from space. That's a whole discussion when you get into the alleged Warner von Braun deathbed confession, which there's a big reason to question that. at the very least question the interpretation that's been laid on it.

So are they attempting to set up a threat narrative in order to pull some Patriot Act type maneuvers on the public? Or are we indeed as close to a global war conflict as I think we are? and are they just trying to maneuver in position things for when that ball drops, you know, we're in the best position we can be in to counter whatever's coming. At which point, even the UFO community, ET believe in community,

will think it's lucky stars that Tick-T did turn out to be some type of advanced military technology, particularly if it works and it defends people. They'll be quick to drop this ET thing. But it's, as you can see, in what I've just said, all of this that I've said, how murky and multi-layered that whole world of perception management can be. And it's just a lot easier sometimes for a lot of people to just believe the false narrative that is the popular one.

And the popular false narrative in all of this, in my opinion, is that this has anything to do with ETs and that we're on the verge of disclosure. I don't think so. The ETs are going to disclose themselves whenever they darn well. They're not going to care what our government or military things. And the ETs, whether it's E.T. from light years away or the interdimensional, listen, if there are beings and civilizations of beings that have the ability to traverse realms so easily and take craft that they've made in other realms with them to do such

things, like they're going to do it whenever they want to do it, not on our schedule. And so, listen, you mentioned so many things here. And, you know, like, it's one of those things where you're sitting here like, oh, but let them talk, let them talk and just try to remember. Sorry. Let me ask. No, don't be sorry. Like, honestly, I do go on.

That's, as somebody who does interviewing, that's perfect. But so you mentioned several things here, but one of the things that I've been saying, like on my Instagram live and just when I'm talking to people, And maybe I'm off on this. I might be, I might be being pure subject to propaganda to the point that I don't even remember things clearly. But I feel like in 2017, and I think in 2020, because I remember saying this before, I think in 2020, I said this in 2020, but I feel like maybe in 2017, they said,

we're in possession of craft that were not made here on earth. And then I feel like in 2007 and 2020 they said something like similar to that because I remember saying they already said this. And now in 2023, they're doing it again. And I'm just like when when Grush came out and said this, I was like, and everybody's freaking out. Like the first couple of days, I didn't even look at it because I was just like not interested because they've already said this. And maybe maybe I'm living in a weird universe where time is replaying on me and not other people. But I feel like we've been down this road before where they said we're we're impotent. possession of things that weren't made here on earth. And every time it's like, well, yeah, they already said that, they already said this to people. And to me, it makes me feel even more like they're trying, like I'm in a middle of a mass sci-up on the human, you know, collective consciousness. Yeah. Because all they ever do is just keep saying it. They don't show anything. They don't offer anything. And so talk is cheap. And that's what we're used to hearing is just nothing but talk. Of course, whatever they do have, they don't want to show us because that gets into the discussion of knowledge is power, right?

And if you go showing everything you have from these others, the other, you know, nations, powers of the world, they'll hold back. And so you won't know what they have to what extent they have. And it's so, there's so much human politics in the mix on this stuff. Not to mention the, the mystery, you know, it's what do we not know that really scares the hell out of our leaders, you know. But the, yeah, the repeating of the things they've already said that all that is is reinforcing the narrative. If you go back to the history of MK Ultra, and you look at that, you totally see what they're doing. This all has to do with laying a false narrative, controlling the narrative, which is really what they, what I mean by that is the military industrial complex, the U.S. National Security community. They want to control the narrative, particularly on this.

Going back to the Von Braun thing, the truth may be, a lot of people like to say there's no threat from outer space at all because Von Braun said that it was a lie. Well, no, that's not exactly what we're told that von Braun said. He said that they would use an intelligent threat from space against us in political, governmental ways. he didn't actually say that a threat from space itself was a lie. And this is what troubles me with people in our community, particularly other researchers and hosts and stuff. It just isn't logical that in the vastness of space, there's going to be intelligent advanced civilizations. and to really think that they're all friendly and well-meaning, A, just because they've achieved advanced space travel technology,

and B, because Warner von Braun, I remind you a former SS officer, Nazi structure, who, and I'm working on a book on this whole, on a particular research perspective relative to operation paper clip. But, you know, we're, hanging this, there is no threat from space on this childish idea that once you achieve a certain level of technology, you have to embrace peace, you know, or you're not going to be able to use it. What the heck is that? That's, it's childish. And then to, and then the other thing is

the von Braun thing. We have one witness to the von Braun deathbed confession. One. And she's a nice lady. I've met her. But A, at the very least, least I say she misinterpreted whatever it was he said if he did say these things, but that's a whole other discussion. I just, I don't think it's realistic that there's not going to be some threat from out, intelligent threat from outer space. And let's say that, let's say that that is known. Let's say more about them is known than we're told, maybe even that they are.

on their way. And a lot of this perception management is, and technology development has to do with getting ready to counter whatever's coming. You have to consider,

to me, you have to consider that that's possible if you accept that there's going to be intelligent, technologically advanced civilizations from outer space. Not all of them are going to have our best interest at heart. Some of them are going to be hell-bent on conquest, you know.

Wow. So, I mean, think about it. It's illogical to think otherwise. And again, I use the word childish because that's exactly what it is. It's childish and foolish to think otherwise, to assume that, oh, gee, any threat, any narrative about a threat from space must be that darn, you know, only the deep state. Now, the deep state will lie to us about how much they know about a threat from space. They will absolutely take advantage of the idea of that threat to control us even more, right? But that doesn't mean that there is no threat from outer space.

And I think that's the big irony in this discussion is that I think there are, there is a threat, a known threat in outer space that may be headed this way. And I'm, I'm not in the deep state. I, you know, I quit working that we know of years and years ago. Yeah, that you know of. Believe me, I'll tell you, I'd be getting a paycheck if I were, I'd have better headphones and a better haircut because they'd be paying me. Hey, man, I see through the cover and stuff. No, I, so it's interesting you say this because you were talking about, we were just talking about, you know, releasing pieces of truth to make sure the BS meter doesn't go totally off. And David talks about this towards the end of the interview.

He talks about how not all these, and now he's talking, I think he's more referring to the NIH of interdimensional beings, not NAH as in like, terrestrial. But it's the idea that he said not all of them are benevolent. He said there are malevolent. And he referred to some of these throughout history have killed human beings. And so it kind of falls in line with what you were saying with the give a little pieces of information now, but also with what you were just saying about the threat from space. So this is a topic that I don't know if I've ever really truly breached on the show. Clearly you've thought about it. What does a war with extraterrestrial beings, beings that intelligent beings from other worlds, galaxies, whatever, what does a war brought to our front doorstep here at Earth look like

to you? Well, if you're talking about with a civilization, an extraterrestrial civilization, with a certain level of technology, and this is where I identified the idea, the idea, that, oh, they must be peaceful, is childish because look at our civilization. Look how much of our advanced technology was originally for military development, or at least gets applied to military development. So if you have a civilization coming from another star, another planet, and it's able to get itself here in force, in mass force, then that war looks horrific. That war looks like something we cannot stand up to

because they'll be bringing with them such destructive power and force. And I would venture to say some degree of disregard for what happens to us. I think it looks like conquest time.

you know, we could be easily conquered by a civilization advanced enough just to get itself here from another planet or another star. Now, there are other ways that they could do it, particularly if they're on a commissurate level with us. Let's say you've got a civilization that, you know, is only, let's say it's hiding out there on Mars or what have you. and it has space travel about to the extent that we have. Well, they could do other things like infiltrate agents. That's another thing I'll tell you that I think. I think one of the dirty little secrets of what they know about extraterrestrials is that there's human beings exactly like us originating, having originated on other worlds.

This idea that only humans like us could only have started and only be, found here on Earth. Well, okay, Mr. Scientists and biologists, when you have visited every habitable planet in the universe and you find not one human being like us, not one having, you know, developed there or, you know, out there off of Earth, then you can say that Earth is the only place you'll find humans like this. Because until you do that, shut up and sit down. Because you don't know what you're talking about by saying that. But that's the arrogance of our scientific community. Now, if they are human beings, think how easy it would be to infiltrate.

Okay? They could just drop them here on this planet, live among us, okay? To intermix among us. I say that was done thousands of years ago. I think one of the things in this push for DNA collection, one of the things they're looking for is how much off-planet planet DNA we all have. And I think by now, probably every human being on this planet, to some degree, has some type of off-planet human DNA. And I think the authorities know that.

But they could come here. They could infiltrate. In fact, that's what you would do. You would send your spies first, your agents to move among us and to assess, do the recon, right? The attack could be, Here we go. This has been in science fiction for decades. The attack could be some type of biological attack. In fact, that would be the easiest thing to do. You know, wipe us out with some type of disease or bacteria or take us over in that way. If the science fiction authors have been thinking about this for 100 years, then, you know, smarter people than even they, you know, particularly if they're on another world, which we know little to not. about, could think of this, and it would be very effective. In fact, it would be much better than an open military conflict, even though I argue that we are going to face at some point, because I think it's happened in our past. You go back to the Vedic writings. It's definitely happened in our past, and that stuff also shows up in writings, you know, after the Vedic stuff. But we are going to face a technologically advanced civilization that could just smack us around that can come here and just call the shots. And we better hope they're benevolent because if they're not, they're not going to care how that makes people feel. They're not going to care about pipsqueak voices in a UFO community and, you know, the U.S. or wherever. with this deep state idea or that Warner von Braun said otherwise idea,

they're not going to care. They're going to say, it's not even going to register. They're just going to come here and do whatever they do in conquest. But it'll be anywhere from, I would say, an infiltration with biological warfare or to the other extreme of open combat using weapons that will be nightmarish to us compared to ours. You're talking stuff that Tesla envisioned, you know, the kind of stuff that can twist a planet. The kind of stuff in Star Wars, like with the Death Star, you know, yeah, we're talking that severe. and every diabolical type of weaponry you could you could think of in between.

You have to consider all these when you're talking about a technologically advanced civilization. Okay. And so a war with a civilization from off world will be, I say, a nightmare. but that's just me well uh my opinion no i i i agree i mean like first of all war is a nightmare i mean this this whole enough the way we do it yeah and and you know the the world we live in where you know i feel like it's all upside down because i look around there's people like yeah you know we should definitely do this war thing over here in this country i'm like you guys are crazy like you know what it is though we live in a society where we haven't seen war breach our shores ever, really. I mean,

in a very long time. I mean, none of our lifetimes. And we have no truth of up close to personal attachment to what war actually is, except for the soldiers who have been overseas seen it firsthand and go ahead and listen to Sean Ryan's show. And when he talks to people that, you know, that come from military backgrounds and they tell their stories of the horror stories they've had. And that's just with human beings. And the technology that we're aware of. I mean, imagine another civilization coming with some type of, their soldiers have some type of weapon that makes what happened at D-Day and what you see depicted in Saving Private Ryan makes that look like child's play. I mean, not trying to just paint horror after horror after horror, but that's what people have to consider.

Yeah, and I agree. I absolutely agree. It's just logical thinking if there is a civilization that has the technology to pursue coming here and they can successfully do it off efficiently to the point they bring people with them or whatever they are, lots of them and their artillery, the war, all that. Like, it's beyond comprehension of their ability. And you mentioned about about these things coming and warring here. I imagine that would be a very, very quick war unless the technology that they have been building is for such a time.

Now, I would say there's, we were talking about malevolent beings coming here. I would imagine there's an equal opportunity for benevolent, like you mentioned, but maybe even benevolent arriving or maybe it has already arrived ahead of the middle avalan and they're they're aiding and we and again we hear i think it was eisenhower that supposedly had this agreement with with et was it isanhauer or i always get the president's wrong do well and and there's a lot of BS in that realm sure you know that the um i from my perspective

what you're describing goes back to ancient times. We're told that there was this war in the cosmos. We like to call it heaven. And the losers of that war, that battle are banished out of heaven, whatever it is. Interestingly, we have these traditions of these advanced knowledge people, because they look like human beings, arriving on the shores of various places around the world and bringing those human civilizations up to a higher level,

teaching them certain things. Now, you see this in the story of Ketzelkawadil and Viracocha, and you see this in the very interesting Tuudadididin. Bring them up to level and then go off and say, hey, keep developing your civilization. Well, what does that look like to you? Well, we've got a war out in the cosmos. We have survivors of that war, one side, coming to this world and wanting to teach the people they find here how to raise their level of civilization so that they can perhaps ultimately counter the adversary of the ones doing the teaching. So you could look at all that. And yes, that resonates with what we're told in here in biblical scripture about the fallen angels. Well, you have to consider, if you're looking at it just purely intellectually,

what if those guys, those fallen angels, were merely the losing side in a war? Because the beings that have come down and been identified as those teaching civilization and how to build your military and stuff, they've been identified with the so-called fallen angels for a long time as well. So what if they just happen to be the losing side in a particular ancient war, and they're the ones that are guiding us, bringing us through the ages up to a certain technological level of development, much of it kept secret for the very purpose of,

being more ready than an approaching adversaries, recon would report. There could be that going on, particularly when you look at the Vedic culture history and you look at the war in the Mahaburata, and it talks about all this advanced technology and these flying things from space, the Vamanas and all of that.

We have these reasons to suspect that this kind of scenario has been going on, that maybe we do have an ally, a benevolent ally from outer space that is here to help us counter becoming threatening malevolent civilization. This is a game that's played across ages, so it's easy for, with subsequent generations, to forget the reality of what might have happened thousands of years ago and just see it as mythology until here they are again and it happens again. So, you know, there are clues that this kind of thing is going on.

But to answer your question or to comment on what you said, yeah, if we don't have an ally in this on their level, it will be quick. It will be very quick because why not? you know, a lesser civilization. You want to hit them quick and then tell them how it is. Right. And when you were describing that, it, the idea of human beings versus ants came in my mind because you were talking about how it would be so swift and they would just be, it would be a matter of not even emotion. Like the way you described it is like it's not even

emotion. There was no thought behind it. It's just like, this is what we do. We're just wiping you away. And that's how like, yeah, why should they care? Like the carpenter ants go, getting into my new built shed. Like, I'm just white. wiping those things away. I'm not even thinking about. I'm not thinking about how they feel. I'm not thinking about the ants communicating each other. They're like, oh, he would never do that because he's so big, he wouldn't see us. I'm not thinking about anything like that. I'm just wiping them away. And I feel like that's kind of... Yeah, exactly. That's what it would be. And also think about, you know, something else going back to the DNA thing, right?

what if they're looking for how many of us have how much off-earth human DNA in our system? And what if there's a number of us who actually are unwitting, at the momentarily unwitting, recon agents, for example, who could be activated at the time of the invasion, okay, deep sleeper agents. And there's something in the DNA that allows our parent civilization to flip a switch in our minds, and then therefore we realize who and what we are,

and suddenly we're working for them, okay? Now you say, oh, wow, that's really science fiction. But look how that idea could be used through religion, organized religion. What are people often taught, particularly in the West? People have a belief that my devotion to my religion and my church, my religion, is stronger than my devotion, say, to my country. Hmm. There's an interesting concept.

But if you think you're dealing with spiritual matters when actually your religion has conditioned you to give your allegiance to these other beings from this other place, which your church or temple or whatever calls heaven, but might just simply be another star, another galaxy, or whatever. So you think you're responding to an almighty being or the angels from God coming from across space. You're on their team. You're on God's team. You'll turn even against your own country. Therefore, it would be easier for you to activate and do something, save against your own military. And these angels that you think are coming from God are actually just the invading force from an extraterrestrial civilization.

Oh, whose DNA you have inherited through your bloodline because long, long ago, they're agents came here and mixed. You see the possible scenario in that and how easy it would be to manipulate people into being committed to whatever this mission is if you just get it into their heads that this all involves God and angels. It is a heinous abuse of the human psyche. but as they say all's fair and love and war and a civilization that would do something like that

isn't going to care about whose feelings they hurt here their job is to effectively invade and conquer and again conquest of us would be so easy by an advanced off-world civilization that it's not fun to think about. No, no, not at all. You've mentioned several times here the idea of it sounds sci-fi, but I think we're starting to transition into, well, at least for me at least, I'm very comfortable

going that route because I feel like we're living in what was once sci-fi. This was what we're living in was supposed to be science fiction. This wasn't supposed to be possible. There wasn't supposed to be any governments holding organized research into UFOs and uncovering craft that weren't made on Earth. And yes, we have bodies. All this stuff and interdimensional talk and other realms here on Earth. Like, this is science fiction to begin with. And if we sit back and we say, oh, well, what Walter's saying is sci-fi, so it's not real. But at what point do you start considering things to be a possibility when the government tells you it's okay to say that because if that's the case, then you're living in the current times of what sci-fi was yesterday

is now okay for you to think of because the government says it's okay, but don't think too far or else you're going to call the next person a conspiracy theorist, they're crazy or they're just living in fantasy world. Reality is 20 years ago, let's see you, 20 years ago, I was graduating high school 20 years ago. And 20 years ago, when I was graduating high school, this conversation is something I never thought would be possible. I never in a million years. Like, I would walk out of the movie theater of a good Marvel movie saying,

man, wouldn't that be something if it was real? And now I'd look back and I'm like, a lot of that stuff's real. And so, you know, my, we've come a far way,

you know, a long way here in 20 years. And, yeah. I just don't think it's impossible anymore. I just don't. I think, go ahead.

Well, we've come a long way since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution going back to the 19th century. I mean, look at the 20th century alone. We started the 20th century with these rudimentary, you know, rinky tink, biplane things, you know, just beginning to, you know, fly in the air. And we ended it with already having gone to the moon and, you know, doing all the stuff with jet aircraft and spacecraft and everything, just in the span of 100 years. What the heck? What exactly the heck? But as far as, here's my perspective, Uncle Sam, so to speak, military industrial complex, what have you, whoever, deep state, they don't care what you talk about until you happen to be getting too close to a truth that they don't want out there. Case in point, between 2000, oh, I want to say between 2012 and 2015, there were a series of conferences called the Secret Space Program conferences. And the speakers were legitimate down-to-earth researchers, okay? People from finance, people from technology, people from, you know, historical perspective. excuse me

Catherine Austin Fitz Joseph Farrell Paul Leveolette Michael Schrat Mark McCandlish you know and what they were doing was their research was

effectively uncovering the actual evidence and threads of a classified space program that the public was unaware of. And they did it through looking at what the money trail was, what the technology thread was. Well, this appeared by 2015 to be getting too close to the truth.

Okay? Because remember, this was before Space Force and all that. So in 2015, in our community, we saw the emergence of essentially, the ridiculous crap of people like Corey Good and Randy Kramer and all these other guys who claim to be Secret Space Program, time jumping, bug fighting on other planet commandos. And what kept getting connected with those lies in fantasy stories was the term SSP, SSP, Secret Space Program, Secret Space Program, Secret Space Program. which is what these conferences were called and were investigating and presenting real data on. Well, what does that tell you?

I was there at the 2014 conference, and I witnessed U.S. military intelligence personnel, you know, in their civilian clothes at this conference every day taking notes. So they were paying attention to the legitimate SSP research community. and by 2015, along comes these fantasy storytellers and liars, and the media in our community, the alternative research community, started pushing these liars and fakers and the guys telling the ridiculous wild stories and began to ignore, essentially, the speakers and researchers connected with the legitimate SSP research. What am I implying? Well, I'm implying exactly what from my perspective it looks like.

They did not like the narrative of the legitimate SSP research and they had to derail it. So what they did was they used their influence, they use their sources, they use their assets to make sure the spotlight where SSP, Secret Space Program was concerned, was aimed at these storytelling liars. That's why, you know, Corey Good was everywhere on coast to coast and this show and that and the other and Gaia and all this and the Randy Kramer's and the Andrew Bacciagos and you, you name it. There's a handful of others. They were getting all the attention where the SSP discussion was concerned and the guys that have been running those conferences that had a growing audience each year between 2012 and 2015, they could never put another one together. They could never get the

investors. They could never just make it happen again to counter the nonsense. So from my perspective, and you say, well, Walter, how could the deep state get, you know, this guy or that guy on coast to coast? I'll tell you exactly how it works, is this is how Intel agents work. You have your connections, your sources that you can reach out and, you know, get favors from. It'd be very easy for somebody in the military intelligence community to be acquainted with or have some type of relationship with any of the producers on a show, for example, like Coast to Coast or Jimmy Church or what have you. And I'm specifically mentioning the shows that pushed the nonsense. And it'd be very easy for you to reach out to that person and say, hey, you know,

if you really want to get the edge on all the others, you got to start, you got to have this guy on because you know you're going to you're going to get that kind of inside information and of course you know the people on these shows they just want ratings they just want views and listeners and they want to be able to say we got the real stuff um so naturally they're going to start having the nonsense peddlers come on because it would you know at the suggestion of a guy they know um you know who's in the the intel community there you go you can see where i'm going with this it's very easy to control a narrative, particularly on a popular cultural level. When I was an OSI agent, there was an actor.

You can look him up. Going back to the 60s, he was in the movie Mysterious Island, a guy named Michael Kalan, C-A-L-A-N. Nice guy, familiar face to those over a certain age. One day, he and his production partner, a buddy of his, come walking into the OSI office in Los Angeles. And because at the time, I was UFO guy with the detachment, I am told, you know, hey, meet with these guys. And they wanted to offer us a deal. They said, hey, we want to offer you a deal where if the Air Force tells us exclusively the truth about UFOs,

and ETs will produce a show and get that info out there. And I thought, oh, wow, that's very generous of you, Mr. Caitlin. I mean, we're trying not to laugh. But here's the thing. I took his contact information. And if he had been useful to Air Force Intelligence or OSI in any way, he would have been contacted again and utilized in a way to get a narrative. out to the UFO public or whatever.

And he would have eaten it up like ice cream. Okay. Because, wow, he would feel like, you know, he's an insider with the Air Force guys. And that's just one personal example of a contact I had that I could easily have cultivated into a perception management asset. And he would have been none the wiser. I could have done it one of two ways. He could have been whitting or unwitting.

So there's just one example. I guarantee you good military intelligence agents are out there cultivating relationships in the media of our community. Totally. Of course they're going to do that. I think it's obvious since 2017 with that nonsense New York Times article crap that keeps getting invoked, which was total spin in perception management. Everyone knows the TTSA thing. And the sudden appearance of the what came to be called the fanboys,

you know, these guys who would just like rabbit attack dogs on Twitter, if you said anything doubtful about TTSA or their big hero, Lou, you know, they would converge upon you. This stuff's no accident. None of it is. It was, for whatever reason in 2017, it was time for, a major perception management op, and this is how it's done.

You reach out and you touch those assets that you have cultivated. And again, I argue that any SSP narrative in our community has been the product of perception management manipulation. And who knows what else, you know, who knows what else. You know, I don't know if I've ever said this on the show before, but early on in this podcast, I would say probably in the first year or so, I was approached by an individual that asked me if I would be willing to essentially so disinformation.

Now, granted, I started the show in 2017, and it was early on in the show, but I was asked, and this guy was former CIA. he says, right? He says, exactly. And he said, would you be willing to sow disinformation once every 10 episodes? And he said that the people his, the people he's been in touch with and stuff, they're willing to offer $500,000, maybe even a million. And my BS meter went off right away. But I would be lying if I did, if I said, I didn't sit there. and think, man, $500,000 would get me at a complete debt, pay off my house. You know? Exactly. The first thing I remember, I was in my 1993 Ford Ranger in 2017, and I'm driving

down the road, and I get off the phone, and I think for like two minutes, and I call my dad, and I'm like, Dad, guess what conversation I just had? And my dad said, Tony, if you ever accepted something like that, you'd never sleep with yourself. Or, yeah, sleep with yourself. be able to sleep at night. No, I know what you mean. You would never be able to live with yourself after that. You're absolutely right. And so, and I said you're absolutely right.

And I never even really considered it because I thought it's BS. And since then, that same individual has gone on the internet to disparage me and another podcaster because we stopped talking to him. Like, gee, I wonder why, bro. You know, but. There's a, yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, no.

Finish your thought. Finish your thought. I'm sorry. In all honesty, ADHD, I don't know what my final thought was. A lot of times I start talking and I don't know where it's going to go until it comes out my mouth. Well, you're talking about this kind of scenario. In the last couple of years, there's emerged this character who calls himself Holden. And he claims to work for the NASIC. And the NASIC is a unit at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. I'm very familiar with. it because it would it would be in the thread of who receives intel air force specific intel and um it was something that you really you know legitimately you're not really supposed to bandy about and talk about publicly but in the last couple of years um the the the nasic has turned up on the public radar and There's this individual going around who calls himself Holden and has apparently pitched certain luminaries in the community, one of them being Scott Walter, the geologic forensics scientist, who, from what I understand from my sources, he just bought it hookline and sinker.

You know, oh, you're one of, you know, 10 special people who we're coming to to get the word out about something. and that's the shtick that this Holden guy gave Walter, even visiting him at his home and showing him an official government ID, which, in my career, I had seven different identities, each with official government ID and different names. So, I mean, come on, people. And so that's a recent one of this guy going out there, you know, pumping people up saying, oh, you're one of a few that we're recruiting and you're

going to help us get the word out. Apparently, Jacques Valet was another one. And I, boy, I can't remember the other names that I was told by my source. But I haven't heard of any activity from this Holden guy or the NASIC recently. It's kind of like that was spaghetti they were throwing on the wall at the time. One of them is one of these alleged 10 special ones that Holden was working was this young guy. He's based in England. He has a podcast. And for the life of me, I can't remember his name or his show. But a couple of years ago, he was out there and kind of becoming more popular. And he claims to be one of the special ones that Holden of the Nasek came to. And my point is, as I was learning about this from a source, an insider source that I had, insider meaning connected to the people involved, immediately I smelled a rat as far as an Intel op. And I thought it was interesting that the Air Force would be willing to kind of bandy about the NAC, you know, be public with that.

What's very interesting too is around this time that I, a couple of years ago that I was first learning about Holden and the involvement with the NASIC, if you go back and you can YouTube this, there was an active shooter situation at the NASIC building at Wright Pat during the middle of this big Holden mystery. and it had the kind of a fishy sense to it in that from my perspective having been in Air Force law enforcement,

federal law enforcement, it didn't look like a real active shooter situation. It looked more possibly like somebody was getting arrested you know, for whatever reason. Or they were looking for something

inside the nasic that, you know, I found it to be a coincidence that as this holding guy was making the rounds around the community, that that alleged active shooter incident was happening inside the nasic building. Absolutely. So, you know, it, those are the kind of things that pop up on my radar in a way that make me very suspicious of what people who claim to be interacting with these mysterious agents, you know, are saying. Yeah. No, I agree. Very suspicious indeed. Let me ask you a question. How long do I have you today? Because we didn't discuss it beforehand.

I'm sorry, ask that again. How long do I have you today? Because I didn't ask you that beforehand. Oh, probably about another 50 minutes or so, if that's okay. No, that's fine with me. I'm actually going to, I'm going to move into what I call overtime for members. And I'm willing to come back in the future. I would love to have you back. Because I mean, what we're going to touch about here in the overtime is like, I mean, you have, like you have, what, 14 books? And I'm looking at some, I was looking at some of them, the Lost Expedition of Sir Richard Francis Burton. Like I was like, I don't know anything about it, but it sounds really interesting. And so, you know, it's things like that. I would love to have you back on. But for the people listening right now that aren't members, let them know, you know, where they can find you.

I know you have a YouTube channel, but as far as the books go, where would you like them to purchase the books at and things like that? Well, I do. My books are print on demand and they're really good product. I use Lulu, l-u-l-u.com, where you can go and find my books. I use them as a printer distributor. They're not the publisher. I'm the publisher.

I've been a publisher for 21 years now. But lulu.com, also at Walter Bosley.com, lost continent library.com, those places. But you can find them there. And those links, of course, you mentioned the Walter Bosley channel at YouTube. You can find the links to the books there as well. So yeah and if you want just shoot me an email with any links you'd want me to put into description. We'll do because I always encourage my audience to check out, you know, the books and things like that.

But so moving into this overtime segment, what we're going to talk. I want to talk about a little bit of the SSP stuff that you were hitting on. But I do want to get into your dad's experience. And also maybe the, if we have time, the occultic nature of the UFO phenomenon, which we were talking about. earlier. So if you're if you're a member, head over to the overtime section now. Well, that's the show, but I really hope you enjoyed it. If you did enjoy it, please share the show with your friends. I don't care where or how you share the show. Just share the show.

If you enjoyed it, that's the best thing you could do to help this show grow, share the show. Check out the links in the description of his books. Go ahead and support his work. He has a lot of interesting books that you, I think my audience will absolutely enjoy. And if you're a member, right now, we have the membership segment right now available to you on the website and the app. So if you want to hear the rest of this conversation, go check it out right now, members. And everybody else, thanks for being here. And until next Tuesday, stay safe, take care, and remember, the truth was such a free, but first they'll piss you off.

Bye.