The Confessionals - 566: Bobo's Marvelous Adventures

Episode Date: July 25, 2023

In Episode 566: Bobo's Marvelous Adventures we are finally joined by Bobo from Finding Bigfoot. Bobo and I have been connected for a couple of years now and it just occurred to us that maybe we should finally record one of our conversations for a podcast episode! We talk about how he got involved in searching for Bigfoot, the long road of getting Finding Bigfoot broadcasted on TV, his UFO stories, and the mysterious water creature he and the team experience while filming. This was a great conversation exploring many different topics and I hope you enjoy it! The Shape Of Shadows Tickets:https://www.theshapeofshadows.com/The Confessionals Members App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZBecome a member for AD FREE listening and EXTRA shows: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinCome Meet Tony:1. Smoky Mountain Bigfoot ConferenceTickets: https://bit.ly/3l1wZHR2. LIVE SHOW in Gatlinburg, TN!Tickets: https://bit.ly/3IC4IkxWatch Expedition Dogman: https://bit.ly/3CE6Kg0Tony's Studio Equipment: linktr.ee/mystudiogearSPONSORSGET Private Internet Access: piavpn.com/confessionalsGET EMP Shield: empshield.com Coupon Code: "tony" for $50 off every item you purchase! Listen to this episode for more information! Link: bit.ly/3YaMD1NGET SIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsGET Hello Fresh: hellofresh.com/confessionals60 Promo Code: "confessionals50" for 50% off plus the first box ships for free!!!Get Emergency Food Supplies: www.preparewiththeconfessionals.comGET FIRSTLEAF: tryfirstleaf.com/confessionalsCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] to the Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/the-newsletterSOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIDiscord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelAre you a military veteran struggling with thoughts of suicide?Contact Watchman Readiness Corps for REAL help. A veteran-run organization that is designed to help through hands-on survival training.Website: wrc.vetEmail: [e-mail]: [phone]Instagram: wrc_survivalFacebook: colbywrcvetOUTRO MUSICVanTesla - Agartha (feat. Nergui)YouTube | Apple Music | Spotify

Hey, everybody, before we get into this week's episode with Bobo, I want to let you know that we do have the Shape of Shadows film coming out on August 19th. That is a Saturday, and it will be exclusively released through the shape of shadows.com. Keep an eye on that website because we are going to be putting up a way for you to purchase that premiere on August 19th. We are releasing through ourselves first, self-releasing, not through Amazon, not through Tooby, not through Apple. We are releasing it through ourselves first, and then later on, we'll let those big name companies get in on the action. But right now, it is a self-release just through us, from us to you. So with that said, keep an eye on the shape of shadows.com. We will be posting the ability for you to purchase

your tickets for the premiere very soon. Now, let's get to this episode with Bobo from Finding Bigfoot. media. This was all circulating around the base that a giant had to kill, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, bony fingers reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing up this giant. With a giant moves, he's got a spear in one hand and he's running really fast and spears, Dan, holds him up like this.

Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face, they basically decapitated. Got spurser, got closer, got spars him when he got about... I feel something pulling at my leg and I look over and there are two small gray entities and they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed. I reached my hand into this bush and I touch air. I couldn't breathe and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. Welcome to the show, everybody you're listening to The Confessionals Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here.

If you've a crazy wild experience you want to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is Contact at theconfessionalspodcast.com. That's contact at the confessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, theconfessionalspodcast.com. Hit the contact section and you can reach me that way as well. Either it works for me, just get a hold of me. If you're listening to my voice right now, I got a sweet, sweet deal for you. Just sit back, relax, and have a good time today because we have a special guest coming on.

We're not going to waste any time. We're going to get right into it. We have Bobo joining the show. Bobo, what's going on, man? Not too much, man. I'm just enjoying the summer. Dude, you're telling me, this is my first summer in Tennessee, and I am loving it here. The other day you called me and I was on the lawnmower.

I was getting ready to mow the lawn. I think I had just started and you gave me a call and I stopped and we talked for like an hour and a half and on that conversation, a couple of times you were like, when I was on your show and I was like, Bobo, you were never on my show. I think our conversations kind of just get blended in. You think, oh, I was on that show. And it's like, nope, we just had conversations on the phone that sounded like podcast, I guess. Yeah, that's not much difference for me. Right? The same here. I mean, and that's actually the kind of goal, I would say, with what I do, I like having just conversations with people. And so if it sounds like you're listening to two people on a phone call, it's because it's meant to sound

that way. I just want people to feel like they're sitting at a table and they're just listening to two people go back and forth about topics that people tend to enjoy. And, you could have saved some time for you just going to record our phone call. You could have played that. I'm saying like, if I would have recorded the phone calls, I think we would have had like five episodes now and they have been, they would have just been complete heaters and people would have dug it. So, but here we are on the first appearance on the confessionals for you. And I hope it's not the last. Before we get into any kind of conversation today, I need you to plug your podcast because

the people need to know where they could find some more Bobo. Oh, yeah. Our podcast is Bigfoot beyond Cliff and Bobo. And if you ever need someone to do a message, a birthday wish or you know, tell your boss that they're an idiot for not knowing about Bigfoot or anything like that.

I can do personal customized video messages on the Cameo app. Just look at Boa Bigfoot and I'm there. Perfect. People listening, I'm sure, you know, they know who Bobo is. And if you don't, then I'll just tell you

finding Bigfoot the TV show, he was on that. But I think most people listening, you know, they understand the TV show and all that stuff. I'll ask you this. And these are questions that maybe just kind of jumpstart conversation. We'll just see where it goes.

But you and I were just talking about some of your past life in a sense. And I don't remember you ever telling me this. And maybe it's just public knowledge. And because you said to me that you tend not to really get involved in like the whole people of Bigfoot, but more of the topic itself. And that's kind of how I am with a lot of this stuff as well. So I had no idea you were a crab fisherman for 19 years. Is that something that you were doing like straight out of high school? No, no, I didn't start that until I was like in my mid, late 20s, I guess.

Yeah, like, no, early 20s. Yeah, mid-20s. And then, I mean, some years like the season would be over like in two weeks because there's just no crabs, you know. Some years we'd go for five months. Jeez. Yeah, and then in the summer I'd do shrimp. or salmon and and crab and

crab was every winter I'd do crab Wow Wow so it sounds like a rough job because I've seen the dead What is it called the deadliest catch Is it anything like that because that's

terrifying to me Yeah but I mean There's they Of course they're going to show like the gnarly stuff Which happens but there's plenty of days where it's just kind of crappy, you know, it's like eight, nine foot seas and 25 not wins. You know, it's not like ice building up everywhere and all that kind of stuff. So it's, it's one of those things where it's like you go home to the family and you're like, yeah, today was a pretty boring day. And then the

next day it's like, yeah, Billy almost died. Some of those jobs. Yeah. Yeah, you definitely come close to making your, you come close to meeting your makeup every once in a while for sure. And then I mean, I got, you know, I had friends that died and stuff. I was on the one boat where one guy died. Really? A couple boats I fished on that I got off on. When I got off of them, like I just didn't, I thought they were unsafe. And within six months, they went down.

They went on board dead. Jeez. Well, one of them got snag by a sub. A sub? Yeah, that's the scariest one, do, is when you're trawling out there, you're dragging, you know, you're dragging nets and going for like shrimp or bottom fish. whatever and one of those nuclear subs go flying by those things are traveling like 25 knots

underwater and they just they're you know like 600 feet whatever they are and they're huge and they snag a you know a 60 80 foot fishing boat and they lit my buddy when my skipper saw his brother's boat just literally disappear go underwater literally in three seconds it was just gone and like there's just debris and I had a buddy that was he was in budge you know the it's like the there's like a couple's you got to go through like a couple levels to get to a navy seal and then the buds is uh if you if you stop there you go into like

the udt teams like underwater demolition and that sort of stuff and my buddy was a in that he wasn't a full seal he was in the uh the udt and he said twice he had to go and cut um take torches and stuff and saws and get all the netting and whatever wrapped around from the fishing boat like you know the the pole arms whatever's attached it's wrapped around the front of the

sub and the conning tower and they have like those fins that come out on the side and those would be you know just boat wreckage wrapped around it they'd have to go out there and they'd come in at night and cut the stuff off at night so like people didn't see it so much because they can't let they would never let us

know where they were and had another boat that I fished on that that's what I think happened too was those guys went down and they just were gone and they think that was a sub one but they can't let us know because then the

Russians would know them for all we know it could have been Russian subs I mean because they were out here too you know so they're sneaking around spying and listening and testing each other and so yeah subs subs take down not crabboats but trawlers. Jeez

that's crazy. I never would have thought subs. I would have been like, oh yeah, a storm went through, you know, Billy, that name just keeps kind of my mind, but, you know, Billy, you know, forgot to drop the anchor or something, you know? Like, holy crap, man, that's crazy. Yeah, so, like, I'm not, like, terrified of, you know, the ocean or anything like that, but my wife is. And so there's, like, next to zero chance you'll ever catch me on any kind of large, boat out in the ocean because my wife won't have any of that. So she saw a perfect storm. I don't know what it is, man. Like she like she doesn't go out on, it's like she never would go out on a boat her whole life. She's been terrified of water. I mean, uh, she has nightmares about, you know,

drowning. And it's just like, you know, most of the time when she wakes me up kicking me in her sleep because she's having a nightmare. I know it's freaking her trying to swim to shore, you know? it's like it's wild uh i i tend to not even remember my dreams unless i take melatonin and then usually i have some funky dream i wish i didn't have you know so right right but uh man that's crazy i i had no idea that you did that for such a long time but at what point did you start migrating into this whole bigfoot thing then i mean like was it that you went from being a fisherman right on the tv for finding bigfoot like what was that transition like Yeah, I actually fished after the first season I fished again because we didn't make much,

we didn't make anything hardly. Nothing to sit around on. So I fished that season and then we got picked up again and I got a replacement and I bounced. Wow. So it wasn't that long. I mean, you fish for one season and then you're off and running. From what I understand about these TV shows and stuff, like the first season, it's just like a wash for the person. on the show because the network doesn't know if they're actually going to make money on it or not.

So it's like nobody's really committing money to anybody in the first season. Is that how it's kind of working? Right. And then you sign these contracts and the contracts sucks. You're like, I'm not signing this crap. And luckily I had a really good agent. And he just said, he goes, he goes, no, they'll, if you're a hit, they will up, they will up it. You know, they'll up it.

And they'll keep you happy, you know. And so we did, we really popped big. for them and you know for this for the standard of those channels and what their normal ratings where we did really really well i think we were like tied for second i think we're the third highest rated show on there wow that they had on there they've ever had on their river monsters is the most popular show they ever had what really yeah why i never got into that show oh really yeah i'm like oh a big fish good job man i love that show, man. That guy, Jeremy's

gnarly, dude. He is 1,000% the exact guy you see on TV. He is just all about fishing. He doesn't, he, he, he, he hates having a film. He just does it because it pays for it for him to do it. I believe it. Wow.

So, this whole like going into TV and stuff, I mean, how does like, so you said my, I had a good agent. Now, I've been, I've been in the, the, I guess podcasting is the entertainment industry. I've been in it for seven years.

I've never had anybody come to me saying, I'm an agent and I want to be your agent. I wouldn't have any clue on how to find an agent. Like, what were you doing that you had an agent to even start with for this TV show? Well, this girl, a little young lady, Corey Christopher, she was an intern when she was at Long Beach State. She was a, I forget what, God, communications with entertainment emphasis or something like that, but she interned at Skunk Records.

That was the sublime, the old band Sublime. That was their label. And my buddy Miguel owned the label. Nice to actually stayed in his place down in Long Beach when I was down there with him. And she was working there. I got to know her when she was like 19. And then she switched over out of music and a television. And then she worked.

her way up and she was working at a APA agency and she set me up with the I actually know she was still doing music then and she yeah she still doing music actually but she hooked me up with this guy that was like a big time you know because

we were like nothing we weren't even we weren't even signed yet you know and it was and no one expected our show to do shit like I mean oh sorry no one expected our show to do anything but so like no agent like you couldn't like Because I know Matt called around. He was trying to find one. And Renee was trying to find one.

And Cliff was trying to find one. And I called Corey and said, hey, can you, can you find a TV guy? So she got me this guy, Josh Levin Brown. He does all. He does, he's done, you know, huge reality stars. Like, you know, the biggest ones, like whatever, Kardashians and like some of the Osbournes and Deadliest Catch and all that. so I was like just a nobody and but she she told me to take me on so he uh took us on

and it was it was great i gotta say if anyone's gonna do a tv show get yourself an agent well that's noted because funny you say no uh there's there's a there's a slight chance that the confessionals gets turned into a tv show um they're they're working on some things in the back but i'm not really expecting it to actually happen but if it happens maybe i should look into getting an agent. So, talk to me, dude. Oh, yeah, for sure. Like, you're, you're,

on the top of my head, you're like one of maybe five people that I know, you know, come from a TV world that could actually point me in the right direction. So, yeah, uh, yeah, definitely.

But, you know, I think it's a long shot, but we'll see what happens. Uh, I'm not really willing to compromise on a lot of things. And so, um,

it's going to have to be really, uh, but, at the end of the day, I think you and I talked about this before and stuff, into being independence really like the way to go. Nobody's telling me what to do. Nobody's telling me you got to say this or whatnot. And the contracts aren't, you know, you know, tricky.

You don't want TV, man. It's a dying industry. And you can do way, you can make way better stuff and probably make more money doing it. Just going your own route, you know. Yeah, I just feel like, you know, I'm happy where I'm at here, you know. podcasting and, you know, Merkel Media doing our films. I don't really need TV.

They kind of need me, so it's going to have to be on my terms, you know? Yeah, but I'll tell you this, this I know for like with everyone, they'll tell you what you want to hear to get you, they'll do whatever it takes to get you signed. And then they just start grinding on you, trying to get you to compromise on this,

this, this, and this and this. And the producers will tell you, we'll tell you whatever they need for you to, they'll tell you whatever they need to tell you to get you to do what they need you to do to make it to deliver a show to make a show that sponsors in the network are happy with and the viewers yeah so like they'll tell you like oh yeah we're going to do this you yeah you guys can have say over this and that and then when you get out there's been a little changing plan sorry about that this is you know and it's like it's just like a freaking fight man for

you're always you're always if you if you haven't integrity, you know, and have a vision of how you want things on certain ways. And they're just like, you know, like they're, they've got their own agenda. They don't, their, their only job, dude, the network's only job is to deliver the most money to get. They have a fiduciary responsibility to the investors, the stockholders. That's their only job is to get them the biggest return they can. If that means cutting these corners and those corners or fudging this, fudging that, that's what

they're going to do or try to do. You mean they're not doing it for the love of the art? I mean, like the camera guys and something. And usually the field producers are, they're usually like really, really cool. But I mean, at the end of the day, they're all, it's a job for them all. You know, they're not coming up with a super big passion of that be it. Well, you know, for lack of a better word, well, they call us talent. They're not, everyone's coming from different angles with different objectives.

and I mean, everyone wants to have a hit show or, you know, be as popular as possible, but they'll sell you up the river. Like, I know people have been on other Bigfoot shows. They're just like, dang, dude. Like, you know, guys that have worked on, like, three, four different Bigfoot shows and, like, then I've worked on ghost shows and whatever, you know, paranormal shows. And they're just like, you know, it's, it's, it's not a, it's not the most, I mean, it's fun.

You have a good time. you meet a lot of cool people and they take care of you in a lot of ways. But still, having the freedom to do your own stuff is having that peace of mind is, it's hard to buy that off, you know. And I think you can do better doing it yourself anyways nowadays. Yeah, I think the landscapes changed a lot. Even since I started podcasting seven years ago, I mean, I remember when I started podcast, before I started podcasting, I, you know, I was driving truck and I remember

watching Monster Quest, finding Bigfoot, and driving my tractor trailer, and I would listen to Sasquatch Chronicles and whatever. And then, you know, the podcast starts up. And, you know, those TV shows were still hitting hard back in 2017, you know? Like, and it's just, it's just a different landscape, I guess, now, the way the business is being run. And I imagine 2020 with the COVID stuff really did a number on the industry. I mean, that's why Disney's laying. off so many different people when it comes to to like ESPN and things that they lost a lot of money they lost a lot of money then when you

shut down an entire global economy you feel that effect for years and TV picked way up because everyone was at home watching like Netflix went crazy and then when people went back to work that's when it just bellied up. Is that because

when everybody was watching TV they were all at home watching even the people that usually make TV nobody was working during that time. So people are watching, yeah, but when it's time to go back to work, there's nothing actually running yet. Like, there's nobody doing anything. So you have to get the gears moving again. And that takes time. Right. Is that what it was like? Well, I mean, they get out revenue for how much, you know, viewership you have, how many people, they've got to,

do they, they know, like, when you rewind, like, they know how many people will rewind for like, what because it like the like watching it live the um you know like the the the executive in charge at animal plant or you know the VP or the president be go oh but when you said this that you got like whatever 37 000 rewinds and like there was like so many people said something this on twitter or whatever or facebook and wow like they'd watch it like they'd watch it like that you know like and so they'd try to like you know they're just trying to get as much they're trying to like they're trying to like you know, make, make viral moments that they can. And they're just trying to, you know, get people's eyeballs on the product is all they're

really doing. And they, like, Discovery, dude, I know this, that they spent, for every dollar they spent on production, they spent the same amount researching and doing polls and feedback. And it's like, what they do is they set up, there's these theaters and, like, everyone has them out there, these theaters in Vegas. because Vegas gets people from all over the country and all over the world. And so they got a total mix. Everyone goes to Vegas.

Every race, color, creed, age group, the gambling addicts come in all forms. So they'll get them out in Vegas. So they'd run trailers and cuts of the shows, like the pilots and stuff like that and get feedback from the people like, what did you like about this? What did you not like about that? and they recut it or have us film some different stuff like this. And then they play it for other more studio audiences. And then they get feedback on that.

And then they do tons of, yeah, polling data. And they're pretty honest. They know what people like. So there's a lot of analytics that go into it. And I would fully expect that for sure. You mentioned earlier about how you guys were looking around, I guess for agents in the beginning. stuff, which kind of led me to feel like this wasn't something like those boy bands back in the early

2000s, late 90s where, you know, like Backstreet Boys and NSYN, like those were put together by a music producer. He strategically put those guys in a group to make a boy band. This is something that seems like you guys all knew each other were friends beforehand, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, Matt and I had been friends for, geez, you know, I'd known him for, I guess seven years when we started and I'd known Cliff for five four or five like we were Cliff and I were partnered up like um I was talking about I was getting offers and I was having a lot of people talking about doing a TV show but it was like MTV 2 and CMT and uh who else was it um god I can't remember now um the old outdoor life network and history channel like we're

all hitting me up going hey you know let's let's shoot a pilot, let's do this and that. I just, I wasn't really in it. I'd be like, I'd say, well, I want some say on it. And they'd just be like, yeah, right. And like MTV2, like MTV2, dude, like they really wanted me to do it. I pitched this because they called me and just said, you know, from people I knew down in Hollywood and the music scene and stuff.

And they were like, yeah, you know, just come, you know, come down, we'll do this and that. And then so the MTV two guys, they say, what would you want to do? I said, well, I had this idea. This was back like in 2001, 2002. I said, I like to, because I have a lot of friends like in the action sports, you know, like surfing and motocross and stuff like that. And, you know, a lot of the alt kind of punk, you know, kind of punk, new wave and alternative

bands. Like I knew a lot of people in that world. And so I pitched an idea where I'd take like a, like if we went to Washington, get like Grohl or Christian de Vellechick to come out and then like some, you know, like one of the BMX or motocross riders from that area, Washington. And then, you know, like then like a pro snowboarder or skateboarder that also like, you know, because a lot of those guys, you know, play music on the side. And we'd go out, we'd really go squatching. And then at night, around the campfire, each week, we'd write a new song and do a Bigfoot song, you know, with the acoustic instruments out there.

Wow. And so at the end of the season, we would have a whole album, because that's when album's still sold. That was pretty, you know, all the digital sharing online and stuff. So like, that's when the movie still was actually happening. So like it was kind of like a two-for, you know, you'd get this acoustic album with all these disparate people. And, you know, every episode,

So I'd have at least, you know, like, local, some, you know, have guys from, like, no effects and Pennywise and some, you know, some of the guys, some rap, you know, some of the rap crews and reggae bands and, like, the sublime guys. I mean, we had, and the guys off Warped Tour, there's just a lot of, like, those kind of guys, like Green Day. So they're all, like, excited, like, yeah, you know, like three nights, go squatch it and, you know, hang out.

just have some beers on a campfire like all were Thurman and this and that. So they were in it. Then they offered me so the first season would have been, I would have been writing, hosting, producing the whole thing. And at the end of the year, I figured out for taxes and agent, I would have got 13 grand for working like 20 hour days. Jeez. And they were going to just bank it away.

And they'd be like, well, if it hits, we'll redo your contract. I said, I want to see it in writing ahead of time. Like, what if we hit? I thought I was going to be popular. I'm like, people are going to watch this. Like this will be popular, you know. You guys will sell some albums off this too, the compilation. I'm like like they weren't, they didn't want to give me any money for like a comp.

Like they didn't want to give any money for the music and they were going to own all the music. We'd have no rights to any of the music. And so I just, I just kind of put it off, put it off. And then when this one came together, it was just kind of like, well, yeah, you know, And then so I just told everyone when I was when I was getting courted again like I then I did sag it. I didn't. No one really saw that one. He only did six episodes of strange days with Bob Sagitt.

I produced like I was the basically the field producer for that one. I put the whole thing together. Wow. And I did. Yeah, I put the whole thing together. And they were they were still. It was their highest rated episode by far. And then I had all the.

I had a lot of people calling me, like Sagitt's company wanted me to do a project, like, you know, do a show. And I just told all of them, I said, I'm not doing nothing without Cliff because Cliff and I had been on, we took up. I convinced him to take a year off of being a teacher. I said, dude, I'm going to, I'm going to get a, and that's when house prices were spiking before the housing market crash. I said, Cliff, this market's out of control. You got to sell your house. You're going to make a ton of money on it. You're going to make a couple hundred grand.

And then come up and we'll just go squatching for the year. And if you don't, if it, if we don't get a show, then, you know, you can go back to teaching. So he was going to go, like, teach at Hoop High or something up here on the Res or, you know, something like that. Or they went up to Portland. But we spent, like, 14 months just driving up and down, like, all around the West Coast. And we did like 10 weeks out, just out in the hills, you know, straight, just, I mean, we'd come into town and get ice and food and stuff. But we just, you know, didn't spend the night in town or coming to town for, like, 10 weeks straight. Then we went to Canada and Washington, Oregon.

We filmed a couple episodes of Monster Quest during that time. And then Saget, the next year we did Saget. And so I was getting all these offers. And I said, yeah, as long as Cliff, as long as it's me and Cliff. And then Animal Planet was looking for people. And that was the thing is people could never get a hold of me. I never listened to any contact information public. and I, you know, I just, I was pretty low, and I had, you know, pseudonyms I, you know,

I used for, like, uh, my space and stuff like that. So like, uh, I got a call from my buddy Bart, Bart, Bartitino. I'm not actually going to have squatch with him tomorrow. I'm leaving, uh, Wednesday I'm leaving with him for a little while where you got hit the mountains. But anyways, uh, they called him and said, yeah, they're going to do a, a group get together down at Wally's house. He was the billionaire guy that funded our research like equipment back then.

And, you know, he put a lot of money in the support and the BFRRL and moneymaker. And, you know, he bought property for the, he bought the property for the Olympic project up there, you know, with the nesting sites and all that. So he was, he, they flew us all down at Wally's house. We met down there in Orange County. and they picked us and then there was this woman Pam from Ohio and she was really,

really cool, like really, really into squatching. And they liked her, but then she got cancer and she ended up actually dying like pretty quickly a brain cancer was a total bummer. And then they couldn't find a woman that they really liked.

They wanted to have a woman that was a skeptic. And so, but it took, them nine months to find a woman they they liked enough and they want someone that was not you know what they're really afraid of you that one of the reasons you don't see a lot of women on a lot of the reality shows is they're unless they get unless they're older is they're so afraid of them getting pregnant because they can just mess up the whole thing you know i can really throw a shoe schedule off wow so um rene is like don't worry about me i'm not having any kids so um

yeah they uh so yeah they uh they got all four of us together and then then it just went from there that's wild that's wild yeah i i didn't know how it all came together and stuff and i just assumed uh matt you know being in charge of the bfro i i thought he had you know headed the whole effort up to get in the tv show it turns out you you were working on it since the early two thousands that's wild uh i i didn't even i didn't know that that uh you and cliff you know went around for 14 months squatching like that that's that's incredible so i mean that that that's really a testament to your friendship and, and, uh, how much, how close you guys were together where, you know, you're like, I'm not doing anything without Cliff. So it's either me and Cliff

or nothing. And because you knew that Cliff, you know, he, he put a lot on the line. Oh, I knew. I knew. I knew. I knew. I've been, Cliff was an undiscovered gem back then. You know what I mean? Because they were looking, they wanted, originally they wanted bark. Because Bart's like this big, you know, buff, really good looking Italian guy. Like, you know, just he's a total character and uh they they didn't understand clip was more undercover to those guys you know like uh they didn't they didn't realize what uh mean a lot of people did but they wanted you know like this big uh good-looking italian guy you know and um but they were stoked that when it's all said and done like they were the happiest with clip out

of all four of us for sure yeah he caused the least problems and contributed the most That's funny because I could see, at least you three guys, I could see how Cliff would be the least trouble. Oh, Moneymaker was the worst guy they had, they said. I don't even. That was like a swap people, whatever, like, deadliest cast. They're like, yeah, our loosest canons, Moneymaker. Oh, my gosh, that's funny. I don't know Moneymaker yet.

I'm going to meet them on Saturday, of course. And I just, I, I, I just seeing him on TV, though, and seeing you get you on TV and all, I just, I can see how Cliff is like, hey, we like Cliff because we know we're going to get with them. We don't have to worry about what he's about to say. You know, he's professional. He's, you know, he's, you know, he's, you know, I like it. So that's cool. Man, that's, that's wild though. I really, I thank you for sharing that because I didn't know that. Maybe that's old news and everybody knows that who's, you know, the who's who and Bigfoot and people know. know that I didn't know it. I don't really follow people that closely, I guess. But that's really interesting how it all got assembled. Now, I know you have talked obviously at conferences and in the past. I mean, obviously, you've had Bigfoot encounters. But what was your mindset, and you can feel free to share like the first time you had a Bigfoot encounter. But, and I don't know if it was only ever one time or what, but what was your mindset before the encounter? Was it? What was your mindset before the encounter. Was it something that you were looking for, or is this something that you stumbled into and

it captivated you? Because, you know, it could go both ways for people. I mean, some people have these encounters and it just takes over their life. Yeah. No, it took over way before the encounter. I saw that PG film when I was about five, the Patterson G. film, and I'd seen Planet of the Hs was on TV. You know, there were Aaron Plano of the Hs on TV then too. And I knew that, I knew those weren't real. Like I looked at that. And that was like the top costumes at the time. And I saw the PG film that just struck me is that is real. You know, like, and the more I, I mean, I've literally, I've literally watched that footage at least 10,000 times.

And I mean, they're still pulling information out of that thing. And I have no doubt, I would bet my life on it. That's a real big foot in that in that film. Yeah. But, yeah, so I got to do it when I was like five. And then I actually moved up to, I was. I was from Southern California, moved to Northern California, got a job logging specifically to see a Bigfoot and learn about Bigfoot and learn about the outdoors. Because I was a surfer skate kid growing up, you know.

And my dad took a stop for, you know, being in the city and stuff. My dad was a nature lover. We got out there more than most. But, you know, we spent like at the end of the year, maybe we'd spend a total of like two, three weeks out in, you know, the mountains or the desert or whatever, you know. So it wasn't a lot. I was coming in pretty green. So I was like, well, John Green said he's got the first real good Bigfoot books. He said, you know, if you do a million miles driving or riding a bike at night on the logging roads of North America, you'll probably see one.

I was like, all right, that's how I got to do then. So there was, and logging was like the most sighting. So I got a job logging. And I did. I learned a lot about, you know, like the woods from those guys. and then I worked on some Native American crews out in the woods and, you know, the learn stuff. But I actually, you know, looking back on it, it was so obvious. Yeah, I live up in Humboldt, I don't know people know, but it's like weeds, it's the Emerald Triangle,

it had humble, medicinal Trinity counties. That's where like 80% of the weeds in the U.S. back then was produced in these three counties up here. And so up in the hills, you know, there was growers all over and, you know, it was armed groups. And you got to be careful about stuff. And I was working with these gnarly Indian guys. And two of them were actually in prison now for murder. So these guys were not like, these guys weren't shrinking violets. And when we get to this, when we were working this one unit,

it was they were like October, November and December. And we were at 4,000 feet on the north slope. And there'd be snow, there were snow on the ground. And when we'd get there before light, we'd like, you know, sharpen our saws and gas up and get our stuff. They're just kind of. and then we had to hike down the mountain into the unit off the landing but the uh the native guys wouldn't when we were up there like because we'd get not there's knocks and whistles would come from

like three or four spots around the landing on the top of the unit up in the uncut trees around it and i i thought it was pot growers or something i'm like but looking back on it now it's like oh right you know like it's like late november there's snow on the ground we're on a norseilk because they grow in the south slope where the sun is there was some There's no way there's any growers up there in the snow and ice, you know, on a north slip at 4,000 feet. But there would be knocks and whistles. We actually had food stolen out of our crummy up there. Crummy is like the, you know, the rig you used to travel down the mountain with the crew.

And we had lunches stolen out of there. And I thought it was growers. Then later on when I found out, you know, the knocks and whistles were actually Bigfoot. I told us this. I said, dude, you guys knew I was up there for that reason. And you just like, why don't you tell me they're just like, because we're not supposed to. You're not, you're not one of us. You know, you're a white dude.

We're not supposed to show that information with you. And I'm like, I thought we were a bro's like, yeah, we're friends. But, you know, it's different now, dude, like, because those guys are a little older than me. So, I mean, nowadays, like, it's, there's still, you can go to some tribes where they, you know, like the black feed and some others were, you know, some of the Navajo and stuff where they're. you're an outsider we're not sharing this information with you but that used to be the rule like 30 years ago like 35 years ago when I first started going on res and stuff and trying to talk to people there'd be a few people that talk to you and they were almost almost always younger and now I mean but they've grown up you know with satellite dishes and TV you know so like

guys are like in their 50s that are you know leaders and elders of the tribes now I grew up watching the Fonz or you know like that like they're they grew up with TV so like bill and they're just more open to it like they're there are more you know the internet everything like there's information flowing everywhere and so they they're they're way more willing to share now and uh so that's that's i forgot how we got them in all that part but you're asking how i got started but yeah that's kind of origin story well it's interesting because uh i had the same assumptions i guess with res's uh when i went to uh utah last year for the uh the shape of shadows film that we're dropping next month um

We were on a reservation. We were going to spend a week there. And I was like, you know, nobody's going to want to talk to us. And we had like our own personal tour guide the entire week. Johnny was fantastic. And he just took us everywhere and just showed us all this stuff. And I think there is something to say about what you just said about how the ones that would talk to you back then were younger. Because those younger people are now older.

And it's a whole new generation being ushered in. and you see that just very different facets of culture and society. If you want to know what the future of your culture and society is, look at the youth. Because one day they will be decision makers. We're doomed. I know. I know. I was trying to kind of lead the horse to the water but not force the drink, you know,

but you're just like, we're doomed. Yep, I know. Okay. We're there. But it's true, though. And so with the res and stuff, it makes sense to me that now, those younger people are older, they're decision makers, and they have raised the next generation to be maybe a little bit more open because they were open when they're younger. So it's,

it's interesting how this all kind of transitions. Okay, let's take a second talk about our sponsor for today, which is simply safe. And let me tell you, friends, a few months ago I talked about on an episode, I don't remember which one it was, how I kind of had somebody stalking me and trying to find me. They came from a different state and they were living, I'm not going to get into details, but they were living in the area looking for me. And in those moments, you realize that when you talk to a whole crowd of people every week, you never know who's actually listening. And if they're going to try doing something, maybe a little bit drastic. And those times, I'm very happy that I have simply safe, because I know when I'm at the office and I'm working, anytime somebody comes

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simplysafe.com slash confessionals. There's no safe like Simpli-safe. When it comes to, you know, your personal experiences out there, and I ask this sincerely because I don't know, or maybe I just forget, but what was, like, did you ever, like, come face to face with one of these things or see it from a distance? Or are you still on that life quest of finding Bigfoot? I haven't had a great setting. I've seen them. I've seen enough to know they're there and they're real.

I had, as far as face to face, the only daylight setting I had was, we measured it out. It was 63, 64 yards away. It was when I had long hair and I was bending down to get a recorder, audio recorder out of my truck underneath the seat. And because we'll let's go back. We were down at Laos Camp in Bluff Creek where the PG film,

We were down a couple miles downstream from the PG film site at this place where we all camp, lost camp. And I'd be going there for years and years and years. And like, there was a little bit of stuff going on. Like, I'd hear stuff at night, but nothing that I could take home to the bank, you know. Like, unless it was like, one of those things that people described, like, you know, Sierra sounds, roaring, howling screams or monkey, you know, whatever. I mean, I may have had them around me, but I just didn't know. you know, I was, because I was always told that you're only going to have one encounter

if you're lucky in your whole life. And I was like, I've heard that before. That couldn't be anything. You know, that couldn't be the same thing. So whatever. So anyways, I was down there. Me and my buddy were hiking down. It was, it was 100, it was the hottest day ever recorded on that day for that, that day

in history was the hottest day was in July. It was actually, yeah, about exactly 16 years, 16 years ago. Yeah, 16. 17 years ago, July, we went up there and we were just going to look for tracks. So we went, I'd always go downstream. Everyone else would always go upstream towards the film site. I'd always go downstream. And we were walking down and we were, you know, like, wading through the creek and climbing over rocks.

And there's little sandbars in there. I was checking the sandbars. So I've seen impressions in there, but I never saw anything that was like, you know, they'd be bigger, you know, as big as my foot are bigger. but you know you just there's no toes no detail so we were we were going down and also we we started hearing like loud knocks and then

some whistles like those chirp whistles like that kind of a more of a chirp to it yeah kind of like a yeah like kind of you'd hear those and then these big rocks dude like I was a shot putter in high school and like the strongest guy in the world

I think it was like close to 80 feet oh shit What was that? Oh, no. What happened? My dinner. Oh, no. I guess I was bouncing around so much it bounced off the, oh, man.

Shit. Sorry, Tony. Hold on a second. You're all good, man. Whoops. I was getting all excited. I was bouncing down on the couch. I got a whole flannel.

I just threw over it so she doesn't see it when she comes back in and getting lips on. not tucking the mic. I'm debating whether I keep that whole section in that's funny. I do it. I do it you want. This is real life with Bobo.

Spilling his dinner all over the place. Oh, what were we talking about? I don't remember. So we were going down the stream and then all of some of these, so like saying like the Olympic champion shot, it was like somewhere around 80 feet

throwing a 16 pound shot put, you know. And these things, were this thing was throwing like 30, 35 pound rocks were coming from the north side of the bank coming up and over the trees. And these trees are like 30, 40 feet. Because we were hearing them land behind us, this big. They weren't that close, like 50 to 80 feet behind us where they were impacted.

Probably, you know, 50 feet behind us mostly. And they just hit and just explode. Like, hitting the water just come, bloosh, water go flying everywhere. And where they hit the rocks and, like, just, you know, make a huge noise. and let me break apart and explode. And then I finally started, you know, looking over my shoulder, looking backwards and I saw the rocks coming over the trees,

arching, you know, going like 40, 50 feet high. And these rocks were big, dude, like, you know, like volleyball-sized rocks were bigger coming out. Wow. And, you know, it's like someone throwing bowling balls out over, you know, over these 40-foot trees. And they were probably going 40 to 50 feet in height and traveling like 100, you know, 80 to 100 feet distance-wise.

I mean, just something that a human could not do, no way. Then after a while, I told my buddy, I said, dude, you keep going. I'm going to run back to the truck. And I had just the week before had my, because I was down by the res and these guys broke into my truck. I left it there and I had my gear in there. And I was only going to be gone for like 15, 10 minutes.

And I was gone probably about two hours. I was trying to find this where someone said they thought they'd seen a big foot up when they were hunting, so I was trying to find this spot. And I was supposed to be real close to the road, and I was gone. I came back and my gear was all stolen.

So all I had left was an audio recorder that I had at home. So I brought that audio recorder. That's what I had with me that day, but it was so hot. I didn't even set it. I didn't even bring it because it was 105 degrees. I'm like, there's no way those big, hairy things are going to be out in 105 degrees in the broad daylight. They usually come out at night, especially when it's hot.

That's like their MO. So I wasn't even ready. And then I had my dog Monkey. And so my buddy, he kept going down the stream. He kept running on the creek looking sandbars. And I jammed back to camp. I had to go back probably a mile, mile and a half.

And nothing happened. The whole way back didn't hear anything. I had no idea that anything was following me. Like I didn't hear a thing. My monkey didn't act any different. And we get back to the campground, you pull in or I walked in. and as like it's like a little driveway comes in.

It's all dirt and this little entryway comes in. And then my truck was parked directly straight. If you just drove straight in from the entryway, my truck was right there, parked where you cut down to the creek to go swimming. There's a little swimming hole. And I was parked right there. And I was bent down to get my truck.

As my hair was kind of like cascading down the side of my face, so I was leaning down to get me. I saw, I was looking. I saw my dog just all of a sudden tense up and like through the full point. Like she saw something like her head, you know, went forward and her ears went straight up in the air and her, you know, her face got all tense.

And I looked at her and then I glanced over my shoulder to see what she was looking at. And I just see this tall, skinny hair, all hairy head to toe. It's kind of hard to describe it. It was like it was blackish gray. Like it was black, but it had like a gray with a silver sheet. to it like it was real shiny like it looked healthy but it was shiny but it also looked like it was sucking in the light it was I can't even explain it but the skin was kind of like a

dark grayish black charcoaly color kind of like um almost like kind of in between like black charcoal and burnt charcoal that gray like in between that kind of and it looked like it just didn't have that like didn't have hair um around the eye but um I just remember looking at it. I started like it was I looked. I was, it went from my, the foot up to the up and it jumped back so fast.

I mean, it was, it was gone in the flash. I almost thought like I hallucinated it. Like I had heat stroke, maybe here. I was like, what that?

No way, but Monkey was freaking out. What I saw was it was the left, I could see the left eye. It was hanging out just enough with one eye. It's, um, left shoulder and,

you know, half of its chest and then part of its waist and its left leg. And dude, it looked like, do you remember a minute, bowl, the old basketball player. Yeah, yeah. It looked like a minute ball if you put a hairy costume on him with a broad,

but with a wide chest, but everything else was thin, thin. Like, dude, it looked like it didn't have enough muscles to move. Like, when you see those alien drawings, like aliens are, like, really tall and super, super thin, like, like this thing looked like an Auschwitz survivor or something, you know, it was just, but it looked healthy. There was no patchy bald spots or, like, dull. It didn't look dull. And the one thing that struck me was it had a real pronounced browridge because I remember that I couldn't see any eye.

I didn't see the eye moisture. It was like the eyeball was set back in a cave because there was I couldn't see because I remember thinking like I should have seen the eye glistened, you know, that, you know, with the way the way I was looking at it. Then I stood up. I thought, no way. And monkey was like growling and getting, you know, whining. And she has no self-preservation instinct. She was she was all about going over there. And so I closed the truck up real quick and grab on a recorder and ran down there.

And dude, it was the first time I really hit that wall of smell. No, it wasn't the first time actually. I'm sorry. I had that happen a couple times before. But it was there was dead. There was no air, but there's usually some kind of breeze blown through there. And it was just dead air. There was nothing moving.

I just remember taking one step. And all of a sudden, it just boom, hit me in the face. Dude, my eyes were. watery. It just like curled your nose hairs. It was just this stench. And you could walk through it and it was about 10 foot

in diameter. And you could walk in and out of it for like five minutes. You know, it was like, I didn't do five minutes, but I mean, I didn't do five minutes, but I mean, I just remember walking like, this is crazy. It was just hanging in this one spot. You could walk back and forth through it. And it was just, it was crazy. It was so pungent. Then I thought, well,

Oh, okay, I left out. I didn't walk over there right away. I grabbed the recorder and turned it on and sat there and I thought, because I never took my eyes. I never took my eyes off the tree. It was behind like a, there was two old growth fur, maybe three old growth furs,

like kind of in a row, but offset a little bit. They're probably four foot diameter, something like that. And so I remember as I reached the recorder, I never took my eyes off it. And I'm staring at the spot. And maybe it took my eyes off for like a second.

Like, I mean, because I was reaching for the recorder and I saw it and as I was going down and I stopped and I looked like I turned face it the whole way and I reached down without looking away again and grab the recorder so my eyes was off it for like literally less than a half second I saw it for like less than a half second and then um my eyes were diverted for maybe a half second like not enough time for it to run it I didn't think I didn't think it did and I just sat there and I'm like okay they're probably going to like if I know there's more than more than one of them. So everyone told me, like, if you're focused on one and it's kind of like trapped, like, it can't get out, like, they can't get away without you seeing it or exposing itself. Another one will, like, will distract you from the side or behind, like, with a big hand slap or a rock crack or scream or a yell. So I'm like, I'm not going to take, I'm not, no matter what happens, so I'll not take my eyes off. Then I, I stood there for about five minutes, 10 minutes,

just looking to see, like, you know, waiting to see what happened. I know that they'll outweigh you. They'll outweigh you. They'll sit there for however long it takes. So I was like, after about five or ten minutes, I'm like, all right, so I walked over. And then the smell was just hanging there. And then I went down, hung the left, going back downstream. It's the old Bluff Creek Road. It's totally overgrown now.

But back then there was still a trail on it and stuff. And you could walk it. And it was pretty easy going for the most part. And so I start walking down there. And I'm like, I'm trying to track this thing, but it's, you know, rock hard ground. there's pine needle deaf and some leaf laid a little bit here and there and and i'm trying to track this thing and and uh all of a sudden i come so as you're walking down the creek bluff creek on your left the creeks down below you like maybe 15 20 feet down below you

and you know it's it's making a little bit of noise with the water flowing and then on your right there's like about a 20 30 foot um section of like just trees and bushes and then it hits the the canyon wall that goes up towards Onion Lake, but it's just a little strip of woods. Then it goes into like these, you know, 30, 40, 50 foot, 100 foot. You know, it keeps getting higher and higher.

These dirt and bankment that goes along, because it's on your mountain that road going up that way. So I'd walk that, dude, I'd literally walk that trail hundreds of times at this point, like literally hundreds of times. And you always were, everyone,

we always would look to your left and look down in the creek because you were scanning the creek and across the creek where they we'd heard of at night across the creek on that side. So I always was looking down and I was looking at the four tracks in the in the sandbars down there. And so, you know, walking along and this time I'm looking on both sides. And also I see there's just like four foot wide, nine foot high, little tunnel that goes from about 40, 50 feet.

And it's totally like, I mean, full squatch, obvious squash mini highway. short. It went up to the bluff there and that's why I cut down there. Then I could kind of smell that smells. I was going on that on the cut on a little, that big trail. I mean, I don't have to duck or twist my shoulders and walk down it. I mean, it was just blown open. And as I got there, there was some dirt gravel still rolling down where the thing had scaled up. And I was just like, no way. So I went back down to my buddy. Nothing happened the rest of the day going down. I went down and met him down there a couple miles down.

We both hiked back up. As we're coming back up, I was ahead of him by a couple hundred yards. And at this point, we weren't walking in the creaking, we were just, we were burnt out. We were just, you know, as hot as hell. So we were walking on the road, the old road, you know, it's shadier there too. And so we're walking up and had monkey with me. And then all of a sudden, dude, like the brush behind me just started exploding.

Like just it sounded like like a offensive line just running through the woods, just smashing stuff. And fast, dude, coming fast, like right at us. Like I'm like, oh my, like it happens so fast. And monkey just shot after it. I'm like, no, because, you know, they'll kill dogs. I'm like, no, monkey, no. And I was calling her, calling her. And she just went, you know, barking.

And she ran into the brush where this thing was. all of a sudden, you know, I hear her like do a squeal. And then this thing never vocalized. I never heard it vocalized. It just was fast rushing around. And monkey comes running back out. And her butt's kind of low. And she's looking over her shoulder.

And she's smiling and barking kind of like happy and like wagging her tail. And she zips back into the brush again. Like, you know, a dog scoot with her butt kind of down low? And they're like kind of happy barking when they're playing. She was doing that. This went on for like a minute, you know, a solid minute. This thing. And I was yelling.

Like, I thought she's. to get killed wow and she was playing with this thing like running back i don't know which one it was but um she was it was just going she was playing with it and i screamed and fine i said you know i was just cussing her get the hell over here you know and she said come here and she and she finally came to me and she kept you know she's happy panting wagging her tail and looking over her shoulder back over there like kind of and she started to run back i'm like no stay and then we walked back and nothing else happened. Then a year later, so that was the end of that, that encounter, a year later, we were

back there and it was a couple months, it was, it was the beginning of May. And it gets, it's like this year it didn't open up until like 4th of July to get back in because of the snow. And then there's also like in those big rough winters. The Forest Service wouldn't clear. That was like low party roads to get in there. So the next year we were the first crew in. It took us two days to get in, you know, like clear and fell.

trees and shoveling snow and clearing rock slides and you know pry bars rolling off little boulders and stuff so there's no no one was in there there was no like i can absolutely guarantee there was nobody in there and the first night we were playing like baby crying uh and some weird gorilla screams and stuff like that and orangutan calls and chimpanzees and sierra sounds we'd play just all kinds of different stuff and we were blasting it just booming through the canyon i was with my buddy jamie jay he was a retired homicide detective he was an ex Green Bray

Delta Force guy and so we're but he was he was always nervous to these things even though he was like you know war hero guy and decorated and all this and been in all kinds of crazy missions and he's more he was way more

afraid of Bigfoot he said than he ever was on any of his missions he was actually in real life he was the fifth group squad leader in the movie Black Hawk down. Really? Yeah.

He was the guy that ran with his unit, but he had to run the 17 miles back to the base. Wow. And he was just shooting people out of like windowsills and stuff. Like they said he had like an ungodly amount of kills that day. And his commander tried to put him up for the Medal of Honor, but he wouldn't take it unless every guy that died that day got one all. So he refused it. But anyways, so he was with me.

So we're walking down. So we walked down that trail. the road, the old road, and I was, you know, I showed up, hey, this is the real thing, walked up, you know, blah, blah, and we kept walking and he's like, oh, my knee hurts, my knee hurts. And I thought he was just afraid getting away from the fire and the camp. I said, look, you can see the camp. I could look, you there were 200 yards from camp.

There's the fire right there. As we stopped and turned around real quick, we were about 50 feet past for that big trail cut up, and we see this, this guy standing in, and my buddy Bart, I was mentioned a few times already it was Bart like he you know he's like 6-1 6-2 like 220 two like you know weightlifter guy and this thing look it looked like Bart looked like a you like some it really looked like I remember my head of it looks like a high school linebacker you know this pads on and it was it was it just kind of was like we caught it it was about we thought it was Bart because Bart and Ranger Lighterman he's a state park ranger cop that we'd go out he's our good

buddy of ours we go out with and he uh so we they we knew they were out um they were they were just hidden in the bushes with uh night thermal just the old sony night shot the old sony camcorder with the infrared little glow button on it you know they just they had a couple of those and they were hiding in the brush somewhere so we thought it was bart we're going barb and it wouldn't answer we're like what that and it was swaying back and forth next to this little pine tree and there was there's a pretty good moon out i mean And it wasn't full or anything, but you could definitely see, you can see the silhouette. It was the blackest black.

It was black on lighter black. It was just, it was just, was this completely black, you know, figure kind of swaying back and forth. That's about five minutes. It just glided across. And we're like, no way. And so we went walking back. And it turned out Letterman and Bart had been hidden underneath like a camo tarp. we'd pass them already.

They had heard this thing. They didn't say high or something they walked by. They didn't want to get this on the way. So we'd walked past them several minutes before. And they were mad because they had been listening to this thing coming down. They heard it climb down on an embankment, come down that little trail, cross the old road and come on the creek side and the campground side. And it was in this little triangle of brush, like where the creek cuts in real close to the old road.

And then if you went back towards camp where the creek cut in next to the road, it bows out. As you're looking back towards camp, so the creek's on your right, it bows out more to the right, and it does like a loop. It does like a horseshoe around the camping area. So it gets wider and wider by camp. So by camp, it's like, oh, you know, it's a couple hundred feet from the creek to the road, I mean to the old road. And so it's like a triangle. So it was in, it had it had to expose itself some way to get out of that little triangle. And we didn't, it was walking, they were hoping to surprise it.

But knowing what I know now, I don't think we blew anything. I think it would have known they were there and not exposed itself to them. But anyways, it crossed. We went back down there. We walked up and there was, you know, pebbles coming down the hill with the big one went up. The little one went up, the exact same spot. And those guys were like, oh, you blew it. We listened to that thing approached for like 15 minutes.

It was, you know, coming down cautiously. And they could hear it going through the brush. and they were kind of disappointed that we spooked it off. But yeah, I mean, it was, that was, that was, when people say if you had face-to-face, it was kind of like that was my, I had one other sort of face-to-face, but it was just a black slip,

but that day I was within 12 to 15 feet of. Wow. Wow. Well, that's a lot more than I've ever had. I had a glimpse of something that I don't, it kind of like what you were describing earlier, I didn't, I was like, it was so fast and I don't know what I saw. I think I saw something like almost like a light,

ashy gray or something, but it happened so fast. When I jerked my head to look back, it was not there. And I was like, well, maybe I just got, you know, the weird stuff on my brain. So I'm still, in my mind, I'm still searching for my first experience with these creatures. Yeah. When people talk about how fast they are, I mean, it's like, Yeah. My buddy and I might have seen one in Louisiana, a small one.

People were seeing like a five-footer. And unbeknownst to me, it's where his father-in-law had seen one. He was a skeptic. He brought his father-in-law to this place on his property. It's right below Boggy Creek. It's across the border on Louisiana side, like next lake down. And we were walking in. We had our headlamps on.

We were going back into this little forest area to get down to where his camp was, just a couple hundred yards. excuse me and we both I mean we couldn't say we saw something but as our headlamp as like when he turned your head when you're wearing a headlamp at night and like shadows you know the shadows move along with your light and all that he was he was we were both turned our heads like talking you know I was looking back to him looking forward again and and we're talking like something it was like at the edge of the light it looked like something because it was going opposite direction of the shadows but it looked like something upright just dashed like to our from left to right,

but it was so fast, like it was as fast as I could turn my head. That's how fast this thing was moving. Like turning your head fast, like you think it was so quick. I mean, it could have just been a weird messing with our head kind of thing. But we both were like,

we were both like, dude, like we didn't see it, but we saw something. like there were some shadow looking, like going opposite direction of the other shadow is just so fast. It was unbelievable. So what do you, what do you make of that? I mean, because the way you describe it there and the way I've, I mean, I've heard people describe how fast they move.

Like, it doesn't, it doesn't seem, did you hear? Did it make? No, we didn't. We didn't hear anything either. So, like, that's why if I would have heard it, I would be like, dude, that's, We didn't hear anything. But we were talking and walking and, you know, we were wearing, like, we had like rain gear on. Like so, you got swish, swish with a plastic.

Because we were just going to go sit in this tent because we take old tents or cheap tents and you cut out the screen with the, the, the mesh where the windows are. And you find the cheapest trash bags. You can get green trash bags, big, like leaf bags, whatever, they go to the dollar store and get those cheap ones that are real thin. and you cut those in half, like there's just one layer, one ply. You tape those over where the windows go. Then you can, the thermal image can see for them,

but they can't see what you're doing inside, but you can turn them out through those. The thermal sees through it. So we were heading down to the tent for that. So like we weren't planning on, we weren't trying to be like quiet or anything like that. So we were making noise, but you'd think you'd hear it,

but it would have been on the trail. just ahead of us just I mean it wasn't far I mean it was when it when the thing took off I mean we were within 20 feet hmm yeah that I don't know it's hard to fathom what people like you just described and other people as well the the speed at which these things move you know I I'm gonna I'm gonna take you down the the the woo-woo path with me for a minute here. All aboard. Get woo-woo with me.

I, to just put it, I guess, plainly, I have a very hard time imagining, because like, I mean, what you just described,

okay, environment and things like that what was going on around you, but, you know, people describe these things moving that fast

and they didn't hear stopping, nothing. And it was, it was pretty close to them. Like, Are these things just forest ninjas? Or could we possibly be going down some weird routes here with the,

maybe they're not just these physical monster-like creatures in the woods, but there's something other than that, maybe more spiritual to them? Yeah, did I ask me in five minutes to get a different answer? But I think there are a normal, evolved species, like some kind of relic hominin or hominin or, I mean, I think they're just, they're not, unless it's gigantic, but it seems, I don't think they're really giganto either, but I think there's something we don't know.

I think there's just, we have such a small sampling of the, you know, of the archaic hominids that it's, we probably don't have this, you know, in there. We don't have the direct descendant. Probably we don't have it in there. But I think maybe that there's other ancient. spirit forces in this universe on this world that that maybe co-op them or use their form or use whatever forms conducive to them to achieve their own goals

or you don't I mean like like Skinwalkers? Like maybe like they can like these spirits can can go on their use take their take over like their physical like, you know, maybe they can just like, possess them, whatever, you know, whatever. I mean, I'm not just saying the possibility that could cross my mind.

Yeah. It could be other phenomena just shows you that. But I mean, as far as the creatures that are like digging through trash cans, cut and running down deer, I'm doing all the normal things that a living mammal would do, you know, it's hard.

I can't say that they all have that ability. Maybe when they get bigger they get the ability. Maybe they get to a certain age and wisdom level they can, to me it would be that they could vibrate certain ways. Maybe they could just do like some kind of humming and vibration and make themselves or make it so we don't see them. I mean, it's hard to say. And then people talk about portholes and black holes and wormholes and all this.

And I've been doing actually some research on black holes recently. And I know it's not that. Like it's not this. But yeah, the black holes are pretty interesting. That's a whole other tunnel. But yeah, I mean, there's some, I did, I'll tell you another story.

We were up in, it's the biggest Indian burial ground found on the West Coast. And we were up outside of there. And it's a super secret spot for the natives. And we were up there, Cliff and I, Cliff and I were up there. And we had a lot of knocks and, some whistles and a lot of knocking for a couple days. And we heard, you know, heavy movement through the brush and some break, you know, this and that, whatever. And one night, we were there after several nights.

And he's a lot shorter than I am. We were standing in camp and we started hearing, it's not like a big foot walking down the hill towards us, coming in through the woods, coming down off the side of the mountain, walking right towards us. And we're like, no way. we're sitting there like, you know, baited breath, just standing there looking. And where that sound of the crunching and crashing, not so much crashing, but just, you know, something walking down through the hillside, you know, twigs breaking and this and that. I see this blue ball that I thought, like, I couldn't, my brain didn't process.

I've seen the UFOs before like plenty of times, you know, like balls of light in the sky and this and that. And this was, I was like, I was like, I'm thinking of myself like the amount. I thought it had to be like some kind of satellite or a plane or helicopter with like a weird blue spotlight or I didn't know what it was. But I'm just looking at it. And Cliff had the auto record running. He has this on auto. He doesn't know where it is. He's,

he's been looking for it for a couple of years. Like, no way. I go, what is that? Like, I kept saying, what is that?

No, like, no way. And then I saw it go in front of the tree. Like, the tree was behind it and it lit the tree up. But it was like a soft glow. Like,

it lit up stuff around it, not very far like a really, really weak headlap. You know, like you can see like five feet or something or whatever. And it was just floating. But where it was floating, you could hear stuff crunching and cracking.

And then it just floated and went down over the hill into the valley. And I was like, just no way. Then the very next day, Bob Strain, I don't know if you know who Bob Strain is, but he's part of like the North American WoodA conservancy that area X.

Mm-hmm. Bob, Kathy Strang's wife's the archaeologist. Him and Taffi Amarone came in the next day to meet us, to meet up there. So we're all sitting there, you know, just talks,

you know, it's in the morning. And all of a sudden, this truck pulls up and this old Indian guy jumps out. It's Charlie Tom. He was known as the last wild Indian. He was in his, this was like 2008,

maybe, something like that, 2007, somewhere around there, I think. And, And so anyways, he was like in his mid-80s at that point. But so try Tom Jones-Sala.

I'm like, hey, no way, try Tom. And he's like, hey, what's going on? You know, and so, you know, we start talking to him. And his story was that he was known as the strongest medicine of all the medicine men in North America. His grandpa and he came from a strong medicine family. They were Karuk, which is up from Hoopa. A lot of people know about Hupa because of the Dave Pauletti's Hupa Project book and stuff. And so the Trinity River or the Hupa flows into the Klamath River.

A lot of people have heard of the Klamath. And Bluff Creek flows in just above Trinity River. Up above that is Bluff Creek, a few creeks up from the north. And Trinity River goes from the south. And then so where they meet, the hoopas on the Trinity. And then from that confluence down is the Urochs. They go down to the mouth of the river to the ocean. Then upstream is the Karut.

So Charit Thomas raised Karut. And in the 20s, or I guess it was the late 20s or early 30s, you know, still wagon teams and stuff. Something happened with his mother was attacked by some drunken miners, you know, and just like, I guess raped her or something, you know, assaulted her. And his father got killed by some miners. And so his great grandfather and his grandmother. bundling him up and took him off up into the mountains and they went way deep out

way past where the Jerry crew and those guys put in the very first roads and that was in the late 50s. It took him into the 60s to get up where he was and they found the burial grounds and that stopped that go road from going through. That was the Gaskey Orleans Road was supposed

to connect. The Oregon border it was going to be a big cutoff route like paved highway cutting through the mountains there and And when they hit the barrel grounds, it got stopped. So Chariton grew up out there, and he grew up just totally wild. He didn't speak, didn't talk any English. He didn't own shoes or anything like that.

The only thing they had that was modern was they had a frying pan and an iron knife. And other than that, everything they made, every stitch of their clothing was like Deersenuant Hides and, you know, beaver pelts and bear pelt. And his grandpa taught him the old ways. And his grandpa was alive, was a young man when the first white miners came into the area. So he remembered the first white men. And so that's how he grew.

That's what they call him the last wild Indian. And he came to town when he was 12. And so anyways, and he said that he saw his first big foot at five that was scratching its back. And he said, he was a tiny little guy. And he said, you know, he was five years old. He saw this. And he said, you know, he thought I was 12 or 15 feet tall.

He said, looking back on it had to be at least 10 foot. it was scratching its back and then when it walked away he went over there and looked and he pulled hair clumps off it and he rolled it the hair clumps into a ball and kept it and they put it in his little medicine pouch and then over the years he collected clumps from five different bigfits that he saw and he said that's where he got all his his medicine from that was where he got his power and anyways so this this is the guy that jumps out of the truck going hey what's going on you guys you know and he just these guys just epic and uh so we were talking for a while and then he had some white girl hippie chick that he was with him and he's and he was teaching her uh which herbs

and medicines to gather for colds or arthritis whatever and they're gathering natural herbs and medicines up there and he goes yep and he said something about yeah like uh you know some white girls learn the hardware like he was like my second wife she was a white woman right here's where she found out bigfoot was real because she used to make fun of me and say i was just a crazy Indian you know and so i brought her to this campsite we're at the camps that area oh and this I forgot this part. When he got out, he said hi to us. He starts calling out.

He's like, he's, you know, just kind of, you know, just, the guy was just full of joy. And he, he looks up and there's a red, a redtail hawk flying way up over like several hundred feet up and a couple hundred feet over. And he whistles and yells and he yells out, hey, my friend, come say a good morning. And then he looks up and he puts his hands to his mouth and cups his hands up and goes, hey, it's Charlie Tom. Come say, howdy. my friends, my friends come here, come here. And sure enough, dude, like right away, a rabbit hops out. And this rabbit hops up right to charge on his feet and just looks up at him.

And he runs down and pets it. And then a finch flies up and lines on this low branch right above his head and starts chirping right at him, never pitted any attention to us. And then the red tail hawk flies down and starts screeching, comes flying down, lands on that same branch as the finch. The finch didn't flinch. It sat there and I was making noise, staring. They never looked at us.

They only looked at Charlie Tom. And then he did his Bigfoot song to call him. I said, hey, Charlie Tom, can you do that big foot call? You know, you said you can call him in. And that's when Bob, like he said, don't record this. And I feel kind of bad. I mean, I'm glad I did it now, but Bob surreptitiously recorded him unknowing Charlie Tom against his wishes.

But everyone's glad he did now because the song would have been lost to time. But it was the traditional Kurook song to call in the Bigfoot. And he starts calling it. He starts singing an attitude within a minute. We start hearing crunching and rocks coming down, coming down the hillside right towards us. And we're all looking at each other, mouths open, eyes popping, and it's like 9, 10 in the morning. And he's just like, we just watch. Oh, yeah.

So there's like a couple rabbits, a hawk, a finch. And then all of a sudden, here comes a little family, a couple. old does and fonds, like, but we thought it was a big foot coming down the hill, but they come into sight and it's deer and they walk across. This is a hunting camp. I mean, this is like there's, you know, um, uh, hanging hanging poles and stuff and rack like hooks and stuff for hanging your, your deer all around there. And, and he just goes, hey, come and say hi. And the deer walk over and all just come up and sniff him and, you know, say hi to him like give him little nibble, like kisses, whatever. He's petting them, you know, and talking to them. They just all stand.

And the rabbits didn't move. There's a couple of rabbits in his feet and a hawk right there. And then he goes, okay, I'll see you guys later. You know, and the animals just dispersed. Like, they didn't run away. They just walked away, flew away like casually. And then he starts telling us, he goes, yep, this is where my, I taught my second wife about Bigfoot being real. And we said, he goes, yep, I told her, I sang the song.

And I said, you stand on the edge of the creek right here. You stand right on the edge of the creek right there. and you watch because Bigfoot, they always travel the creeks. That's what he said, like the Boggy Creek, you know? Yeah. And he goes,

they come up the creek. So, and he's telling us about the Bigfoot coming up, and, you know, it snuck up behind his wife and shoved her into the creek, and she fell into the water.

And he said, he just started laughing. He goes, oh, being Bigfoot, we're laughing. We were laughing her, you know. And she was bad and yelling and screaming. And I said,

well, why didn't she, how this thing, just walk up on her? He goes, well, because it was traveling. So it was a blue ball. light. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Well, okay. I've, I mean, I've heard the blue balls of light. We've had it on the show a few times. I know about the blue balls of misery.

Hey, you know, I'll tell you what, man. That's something that I don't struggle with. So it is what it was. But he got me on track. Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. The blue light that you saw

was Cliff, the cliff was there. Did he see it too? He didn't see it. Dang it! If I could do it over, dude, I would just

spun around, grab him underneath his armpits and lifted him up in the air so you could see. I totally would have if, I mean,

because that was the most, that was the most paranormal if you want to call it thing that I've experienced or anything you know that's that's the that's the

most mind-blowing thing that's happened to me so I mean he says that you know that that's Bigfoot I mean and you saw the blue light but it's up to you to determine what you think I mean

obviously it's not a natural thing for you to experience the blue light in the moment and obviously just make that connection to Bigfoot where for whatever reason that's what he makes the connection to. But it did sound like a big foot walking where the blue ball light was. It was like it sounded like something big and heavy walking right where the light was. Okay, but I mean, you're like, do you say that was Bigfoot then?

I think it was. Okay. So now we're getting, we're, now see, this is what I like. This is what I like. So, I mean. Or maybe something that, that maybe something that that, that. maybe I don't know like uh it might it might have been something that's like a like some really strong spirit that is we just can't even comprehend and okay it can be not visible that's or

visible as blue this is beyond my comprehension but uh it's just kind of round like loose uncongealed thoughts yeah on it uh but yeah i think i think it was what we is what we what we associate with Bigfoot yeah I was associated with that yeah and so I mean like it kind of there's several things here I mean so earlier you kind of mentioned about or maybe you hinted at the idea that

you know you believe Bigfoot is ancient but at the same time you suggest that either they could be possessed or maybe something else is going on that's something almost like masquerading and and taking on maybe like a former image And we hear, you know, skin walkers and doing such things. And why could a skinwalker not, why couldn't a skinwalker take on the,

the image of a Bigfoot if they can do other creatures? I mean, let's just go with Bigfoot's a natural creature. Well, if they can do that with other natural creatures, it would make sense that they could do something like that. And I personally feel like there, there could be a situation where we're dealing with, yeah, you saw what we would say visually is, a big foot, but it's not coming from the same origin as everything. So, like, I think that you could be dealing with something that's very ancient and physical and natural and at the same time be dealing with maybe some kind of weird lab experiment that went wrong or maybe not wrong,

but also on a spiritual level, it could be an entity. So I kind of leave myself open to, to interpreting it loosely, I guess. But the blue light, I mean, he goes with its Bigfoot. You heard what you heard along with that. So, I mean, to a certain extent, it seems like you can't. I mean, can you say that the blue light is Bigfoot and Bigfoot is just a natural physical creature? I mean, it doesn't seem like it seems like that would be a contradictory thing. just the wife, his wife, when she got shoved, you know, thrown into the creek, she felt hands.

But the people that were there, like Charlie Tom, I think there was someone else with them. There was someone else with them. They just saw a blue ball light. They didn't see a big foot. They just saw a blue ball light and it went up behind her. And then she said she got big, big hands went on her back and just kind of picked her up and pushed her, shoved her through her into the creek. that's not supposed to happen bigfoot's supposed to be cuddly right he said that he said they were he said bigfoot laughed and he laughed that's wild that's wild uh yeah i mean so when you hear

people that maybe do gifting and things like that are you anti gifting do you have a neutral vibe and feel on the whole gifting thing where you know it's like let's build a relationship with this thing because they are, you know, humorous. They like, you know, playing games and exchanging gifts. I think, I guess just, dude, it's like, it's, it's, they're, they're just, they're not people, they're not humans, but they are like us in the sense that there's generalizations you can move about, about them as a whole. And there's individuals with, I mean, you got, you're going to have some that have

brain chemistry issues, you know, maybe they got a bad concussion one time or, you know, They saw their parent get shot in front of them or they got shot. There was a child that someone wounded them like a hunter wounded. Like a homeowner that panicked and saw one and shot them. They just, or they might have one that's just born, you know, born sociopaths or psychopaths. You like that, have that tendency, you know. And I think it you wouldn't, but I don't think you'd be gifting those ones because I don't think you'd ever, you wouldn't get any kind of friendly vibe off them.

But I know a lot of people that have had really long term positive things that. But what most of them say is be careful about putting out food. You're way better off putting out like trinkets and toys and like shiny things versus food. You can get, you might get some negative reactions if the food stops. Yeah, well, I would imagine so. Yeah, I mean, I've heard that. I've never. That's if you're getting at your house.

I mean, that's if you're gifting in your backyard or behind your barn or whatever. I mean, but if you're going out to a spot and you're driving a half-out, out there and you're putting out. You live in town or something. I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I mean, I wouldn't worry about gifting at all. I mean, there's, they never, hardly ever take anything I've put out there, like almost never, like a couple times only, I think maybe twice a day taking things that I put out potentially, like three times, maybe over 30-something years. Yeah, I, I would never get involved in gifting on my own property, that's for sure, especially food, especially food. But, I mean, I got pigs and chickens in my backyard. So if they want food,

food that's right there. They can have it. But I want to ask you about some other things here. So you and I were talking, oh, man, this is, I mean, I was still back in Pennsylvania. And I remember I was sitting in my truck in my driveway and I just got home from work when we were talking. And you mentioned about how on the show, I think you said. said it was in Pennsylvania.

You guys saw something that at least was unusual, not expected in water that didn't make the show because the show is called finding Bigfoot, not finding sea serpents, you know? So, what was that all about?

Okay, well, I've established. I served since I was a little kid. I grew up on the ocean. I was a commercial fisherman for a long time diver. I know the water. I know the swell. I know wave action. I mean, I've, like, Belgium,

talking about foot anatomies like me talking about waves and water. So we're jamming out. There's about a 35 knot wind coming in from our like 2 o'clock, 1 o'clock, 2 o'clock. And it's thrown up about an 18 to 22 inch, little white cappy chop going across. And we're flying. Like, we're jamming out in the boat.

We're just hauling ass. and there's a helicopter flying over when there's shows in helicopters, no drones. So there's a helicopter flying above us and then there's a chase boat on the one side of us with the camera crew and the producers.

And they're like, hey, we want you guys like to act excited, like point stuff out. Like, you know, like just, you know,

say, hey, there's, you know, like just, just be animated. Like just, you know,

whatever, just point and look and, you know, talk amongst yourselves and laugh, whatever, you know, and so we're hauling us out there. And, I had my, of course, I had some good polarized sunglasses on.

And I'm seeing a fish jump. There's this lake, it's Lake Kinsua where the Kinsua, we were by the Kinsua Dam, where the Kinsua Bridge fell down. Yeah, yeah, the tornado went through there. Yeah, that's where we were. Okay. So we took off out of that marina, and we're jamming straight out from the arena heading, I guess we were just heading north, it was.

And we're jammed up there, and I see these big carp. There's like two, three foot carp all over the place. We see these, it look, I think they were a carp. jumping like I didn't know carp did swim that fast because these things were hauling ass and jumping out of the water and I'm looking behind it and there's something like creating its own wake it was going with the chop kind of side like a like a if the wind was coming like say 130 out of the 130 o'clock position this thing was going like a from like I was heading towards like uh 830 9 o'clock kind of so it was going mostly with the wind but a little bit of off and it was it was throwing up awake and then I see I see I see a section of it and I must have seen like 12 15 feet of it and it didn't look like scales I don't think it was a sturgeon because there was no and there was sunny out there it looked like sea lion skin kind of like it looked kind of like a sea lion skin but it was there was no like sea lions aren't 12 15 feet

long with no sign of a flipper tail or a head you know it was just like like a like a wall like looking at a section of wall moving through the water or something. And then it came back up and I saw it again. I got a better look at it. And it just, I saw no features on it. Like I didn't see any kind of fin anywhere or nothing. I didn't see any hint of scales.

I mean, I was a quarter mile away. And I'm telling the rest of the guys in our boat to look. And I'm waving at the, I'm waving at the camera crew. And I grabbed the walkie from René. I'm like, there's a serpent and a water.

something in the water. I didn't say surface. There's something in the water ahead of us. Look over there. And it was directly in front of their chase boat, about, you know, several hundred yards out. And then Cliff was next to me. I said, Cliff, look, look, look. And then he saw the fish jumping and he saw.

And that was right the last time I saw the actual, as Cliff started looking over that, he just saw something that he didn't, you know, it was going under at that point. Renee caught a glimpse of it. I don't think Matt, Renee, Renee saw, she, she, she caught a glimpse but she didn't get a good look but then everyone was looking at the but you can

still see where the like it was like a wake under the water like you know like a submarine pushing up a under something under water pushing up a wake like or you see a hippo running under water or something and there's these carp just leaping i think i guess they were car that's what they were we were told they were we're just leaping and jumping like flying out of the water and something big behind him and uh it looked i mean when you look when i look back on it it was like you know some kind of serpent is or eel like i think they're eel some giant kind of eel was chasing where it could have been like a smooth skin catfish but the biggest catfish one like six feet long there's no way this was there's

it could have been a catfish dude I would have seen you know the spine like the the dorsal fin or you know I would have seen something there was nothing like that it was just I didn't see any head or anything and I saw at one point I saw how to be 1215 foot of section kind of arch up and go back under wow that's that's wow to think that it happened. And that was fresh water too, right? I mean, of course it was fresh water because the Great Lakes are not salt water, right? They're fresh.

Yeah. I think that lake ties right into the Great Lakes, I'm pretty sure. I'm sure it does. Lake Erie is not far from there. That's wild. And it sucks for Cliff. I mean, that's twice now. You've mentioned the blue lights and the sea serpent, and he just misses it.

like I feel like I feel like seeing something like that would be paradigm shifting for Cliff and I don't even know cliff he's open to it like he everyone thinks he's such he's such a he's such a you know I think she's so smart like you know he's just thinks she's Mr. Science he's like like dude he is open to all of it just he goes show me some evidence like you know show me like I just need he goes I'm evidence based he goes I'm strictly deal with evidence not stories. Yeah. So whatever, but he did see a black cat though when we were in Michigan. Is that right? Yeah, I'm the only one that didn't really get a good look at it. I mean, I saw something like low, dark going, but I couldn't tell what it was at all. But Cliff, Matt and Renee all saw the, you know, a black mountain line, you know, cross the road and shoot up into the sidebrush.

Wow. You know, I was talking to a local pizza shop owner here, Legends and Lore Pizzeria. Shout out to them. Eddie is the owner. And he said that he had a police officer not long ago come into the shop and ask him about, I guess, has anybody reported seeing a black cat? And I guess this officer, while he was in his vehicle filmed on dash cam, a very large black cat that walked across the road.

He said it was so large when it ducked to go underneath. the guardrail, its tail wrapped around the guardrail. Oh, wow. And he showed it to, I don't remember what organization it was, but it was, you know, some kind of wildlife organization here in Tennessee.

And at first they said, it doesn't exist. That's not real. And he's like, I'll show you. He shows the video. The guy goes, you can't show that to anybody. You can't talk about that. And so apparently he's keeping it quiet. But I I say this. Officer, if by chance, you're friends with Eddie, Eddie says, listen to the

confessionals and you're listening right now, please get a, get that footage on just your phone. And when you retire, you can talk about it. And I know a great podcast where you can talk about it. So there's that. But yeah, the wildcat, the black cat, I mean, that's something that I think recently, I think in the UK, is it the UK that's now admitting that they have these cats. Yeah, yeah, they got some kind of DNA, I guess. I got to call a buddy Andy over there. He just Beasts of Britain. Yeah, yeah. Andy McGrath, right? Yeah, yeah. I'm going to give him a call, actually. I've been meaning to call. I don't call anyone. I always mean. I mean to call everyone for years and I just don't. But I saw a black cat dude in broad daylight. Really?

Dude, coming back from Bluff Creek, my buddy Manning was driving in front of me. I was following and we were going up over the bald hills up from the Klamath River back up over to the coast over to Redwood National Park. And I think he recorded it. I'm pretty sure. He passed away not too long after that, though. And he had, I mean, it was like, go through his footage. I'm like, dude, you have no idea how much footage this guy had thousands and thousands of hours.

He filmed his whole life because his whole plan was when he turned 50, he was just going to watch his whole youth like every day and live his life over again. Wow. He was kind of a little out there. He is classic. He actually was spending a year out on his own, and he was doing a year without coming into town up in Southern Oregon in the mountains out there in the lower Cascades east of Medford.

And he broke his leg and then got hypothermia and then went in the cardiac arrest and died out there. And some hunters found him in the spring when the snow melted. But yeah, it was pretty sad. But he was in front of me. I was behind him. and this and everyone goes you saw melanch like those black there's no such thing as a black panther because you know there's never been one recorded in history there's no pelts there's no

nothing of black mountain lines and and cougars whatever you want to call them panthers but i mean i always heard of black panthers like you know besides the group i mean you know the animal black panthers and i just thought that like you know you seem like on the batteries and fireworks you know black panthers and i just thought like there's there's just melanchistic ones and Everyone's like, oh, no, they're just, they're non-nistic Jaguars. Dude, I saw this thing in daylight, like, casually walked across the road. It was a mountain line. It was a straight up mountain line.

Just black. Jeez. Do you think there's a, because when I hear about the black cat thing, my natural inclination is to say, there's not the paranormal about it. It's just a cat that's black and people, for whatever reason, don't want to admit that they exist. what do you think so weird about the black cat? Dude, I mean, they've hunted Panthers to extinction in lots of parts of the country.

Like the majority of the country, they hunted the mountain lions in the extinction. I mean, they're making away back now, but, you know, 100 years ago, they were wiped. By the 1950s, they were wiped out all over, and now they're making comebacks, but never in all that time has there ever been a black one, ever shot, trapped.

You know, I know guys that have, I knew the guy that, you know, a hundred for years and years and he killed a you know like 70 or 80 mountain lines in his life and you know i mean and he knew guys and they they he had heard of a couple guys saying they'd seen him but he'd never seen one and he'd never heard of anyone catching one and i mean if someone got one it would be such big news there's it'd be like you know someone would have like a picture like their family shot one in 1930 or 40 or whatever i mean or even the 1800s it would have been such an anomaly, it would have been known, you know, it would have been, it's just like,

that's why I have trouble explaining it. There's, there's no, there's no examples of it. Well, that, okay, that I see the importance of it from that perspective. I was more along the lines leaning like what's so weird and paranormal about it, but I get the historical, uh, perspective from it. Um, you, there's nothing paranormal about the, what people report them doing. There's never been anything reported that wasn't anything Panther wouldn't do. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah.

So, listen, you go out in the woods. I mean, clearly, I mean, you're going out on Wednesday for, you know, at least what a week or whatever. And you go out looking for the mysterious unknown, the Bigfoot. Are you open to the idea possibly encountering something you weren't out there looking for? I mean, obviously you had the sea serpent idea, but that was water base. What about like the, like, all right, so you and Cliff host a podcast, Bigfoot or Beyond, what's it called? Bigfoot and Beyond, right? Yep.

And I'm a little dyslexic. I always get things backwards. But you guys had me on that podcast a while ago. And we talked a lot about Dog Man. Yeah. So you hear about this dog man thing, and I'm not asking if you believe in it or anything like that. What I'm saying is, are you psychologically open to the idea of possibly running across things that other things that shouldn't exist, but yet they do? Yeah.

I mean, I've seen UFOs out squatching, you know, I mean, so, I mean, those things, but that, I mean, with, dog man and bigfoot are so just they're not they're not in the same ballpark at all I mean there's there's all kinds of evidence for Sasquatches you know like pretty good stuff I mean in my mind they're already discovered with Dogman I mean you're talking about something that's just so freaking weird there's nothing in the in the fossil record even

close to it I mean it doesn't make any sense by a lot like physiologically like when people describe how they walk and but it's a real phenomenon And you'll meet Lee, Lee and Jen Kirkland that they, uh, they, uh, they, and Jeff, uh, Jeff, uh, Jeff Waldrick run creepy people management. Like there are managers for like appearances and that sort of conferences. And Lee, he saw one when he was like 15, 16. He saw one walk in front of the car 15 feet in front of him, the seven and a half footer with a big bushy tail, like walking with it's like kind of like a T-Rex arms, you know, held up like a T-Rex and kind of real wobbly. He was the first guy that I knew really well that I trusted 100%.

Like, no doubt that they're not, I know they're telling the truth. And when he told me that, that blew my mind because I'd heard enough, like, you know, read the Lina Godfrey stuff and, you know, hearing stuff on coast to coast. But for years, I told me, they told me like they saw a dogman or a werewolf. I never heard a dogman until not that long ago. I was always werewolf. People would report seeing werewolves to me. And I'd be like, no, I'd just kind of laugh like, he's silly duck.

you saw a big foot your mind's adapted to see a werewolf because you've seen werewolf movies you just saw a big foot you're just in shock and you saw it as a dog or whatever and then like I sat on our show a couple of times I'm like man I'm going to apologize and listen to this and I told you

you're mistaken like you know I let you know legitimate people like non non-luny people have seen these things and I can't wrap my mind out It's got to be, I don't think they're a naturally evolved creature.

I don't think so. Yeah, I would agree on that one. I don't think they're naturally evolved at all. They're not around me. They're not out in this part of Northern California. I told you about Ranger Leiterman. He saw a giant dog thing with the giant ears on top. He said it looked like one of those Egyptian Anubis,

kind of, it was sitting, he said it was huge giant. He likes to go on night hikes and he was working down in the desert in southern California out upper Mahavi, I think he was or something. He would do night hikes at night. He's in law enforcement, so he would, you know, go out at these long night hikes. And, you know, just to, he'd like to go out of it because it was cool at night, you know, because it would be a hundred and something during the day. So he's out, you know, for a nice long evening.

And he'll hike 20, 30 miles, like he's a nut. And he was walking. He said he just sees this giant, huge canine just silently sitting on top of this rock. I think he said it was maybe five foot tall when it was sitting on all four or five feet tall looking. And he said it was giant. And it just stared at him. And he didn't really feel it especially threatened. He didn't get any kind of like mind speak or anything like that.

He just saw a giant canine kind of dormant sort of dormant pincher looking, but bigger, just sitting there looking at him from not very far. away just in the full moon just watched him it turned his head he had he kept his eyes on it it kept its eyes on him and they just watched each other as he walked by and then it made no movement he just kept hiking and nothing else happened wow see yeah we don't get them the red woods we don't get them up here where i'm at like there's no stories around here i mean i heard uh someone say on some comment section like they saw one up around here but i don't know dude like the tribes don't talk i mean they have them in their legends but like it's

it's not a thing like Bigfoot at all or like the river surface Kmos. Like they know all about the serpents and they know that they're a biological reality. Bigfoot's a biological reality. But this dogman thing is it's not in the same category. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, let me ask you this final question.

This is kind of going back to our first half of this conversation when we were talking about just life. your life. And I wanted to ask you this earlier, and I forgot to. You, how long was the TV show on? It was, what, 10 years? Well, from start to finish, like from when we first started, I think it was nine, nine and a half, I think it was nine years from the first meeting

till the final episode aired. Okay. It was nine years. And how many seasons? I looked on Discovery Plus. there, yeah, I looked on Discovery Plus her day and I was trying to find an episode because my girlfriend had only seen one episode ever. And she wanted to see Monkey.

She didn't care about me at the end. She didn't want to see Monkey. She said, What, ever said, had Monkey the most in it? And I'm like, I think this one. And so I was looking at it said 12 seasons, but like one of the seasons was like three episodes. One season was like four episodes. And so I think the way I count them, like of the runs, you know, like, we would go out for like however many months.

whatever. I think we'd put it at more like nine C's or eight or something. Okay. We did a hundred. A hundred episodes? Yeah. Isn't that like syndication or something like that? That, you know, that that was the thing of the, they don't do that anymore. The syndication, that was the cutoff and we were trying, and just before we got to the

hundred, like, because you'd get bonuses for that. Like, you, you got, it was a pretty penny because we don't get any kind of residuals. Like, what reality shows? No, unless you're like, unless you own the show,

like the Kardashians or like Josh Gates or Nick Groff, you know, or, um, what's his name? Uh, the other guy from ghost adventures, uh,

Zach, Zach, um, those guys, they all own, like they, their production company actually makes the show. So those guys get residuals.

They, they, they do really well. But if you're just talent, you, yep, you get a paycheck and then you're done. Because everything's sort of like making all this money off all these reruns and

marathons and we don't get a penny. that sucks. Yeah, that's why, that's why, well, that's one of the reasons that reality, i. Unscripted television was so popular with the networks, it's because they didn't have to pay writers and they didn't have to pay residuals. So that's why it just exploded. Plus, it was they were popular, but they were cheap to make. I had no idea about that.

Like, I started gearing up for a question and you started throwing all this other stuff. I'm like, wow, this is, this is interesting. So, uh, all right. good to know now let me let me ask you this though so 12 seasons

and 100 episodes finding Bigfoot the only show from that era that I think in the same vein of topic that could hold a candle would be

Monster Quest I think people watch that prolifically just like they did your show Oh, Monster Coast was bigger than ours. What was it? Okay. Well, I mean, in the Merkel household, it was kind of even, right?

So do you, how do you view the four of you and what you guys were able to accomplish for maybe Bigfoot culture, not community? I'm talking like the conscious. The general public? Yeah, the consciousness of Bigfoot to the general public. I'm interested here how you view that because I have my own views on that from the outside looking in, but do you see what you guys did as something that actually moved culture? Yeah, I mean, it's not my opinion. It's just the fact that from when the show started until the show stopped, that public belief in Sasquatch doubled. And not because of us is because of the witnesses at the town halls and the witnesses we went out with and did recreation.

they were so compelling so many of them that people said that's what switched them over was. So we presented it to them, but it wasn't me that convinced people Bigfoot's real. It was the witnesses. Yeah. Yeah. And that's good.

It definitely had an impact on pop culture and just the general view of Bigfoot. And I think the biggest impact is with the kids, like me growing up like boggy creek and in search of when I was a little kid, those just hooked me really. And like there's a lot of young adults now that, you know, we're like, you know, 10, 12 and that came out. And now they're like 23, 24 and they're going to grad school to be anthropologists or biologists.

There's a lot of youngsters coming up that got their exposure as a kid that just lit a fire in them for the subject that are pursuing it from a professional academic, you know, pursuit. And so those people will have a big impact. But I mean, you know about the DNA study. They're kicking off back in that guy, I don't want to say his name. That's moneymakers doing the big. The Swipakry Mountain Conference this weekend, they're going to, moneymakers go in public with that.

It's a major university on the East Coast that has public funding, government funding for to go over Bigfoot evidence, like take a look at it. Because it's a direct result of the UFO. files coming out in the whole UFO disclosure. Really? There's a movement now for the Bigfoot thing. Tim Burchett is a good buddy of ours. He's your congressman from where you're at in Tennessee.

He says he's all, when the committees come out, he's all, because he's in his third term, I believe now. I think it's his second or third term, but he said that he's going to get a committee together, hopefully in 2024 and go out of the whistleblower of the whole thing, come forward

whistleblower protection for any fishing game officials, the Department of Interior, whoever, and a lot of military bases. There's a lot of stuff on the military bases. Just any government person that has NDAs or

worried about their job security, they can come forward with no repercussions and present whatever evidence or test whenever they have. have about the validity of Sasquatch. I think that's going to, just like the UFO thing is going to blow people away. Yeah. Well, that's exciting to hear. That's exciting to hear.

And I'm also, I'm really glad to hear your perspective on the work you guys did because I shared the same sentiment from the outside looking in. And, you know, it's good to be humble, but it's also good to be realistic, too, because if you're not realistic, then you're not humble. If that makes sense, like, you just, you got to be honest with your. And the fact is you guys, you guys really did something for the world. And I think that it's something that you guys should always hold your head up about. And, you know, I, listen, like, there's a lot of people in this world who, you know, put their heads down for the final time.

And they have way, way, way more regrets than they ever could have imagined they would have had. you guys I'm sure everybody has regrets but I think what you guys did and stuff really changed the perspective of what this could be and you're right

the town halls were really big deal with that and so kudos to you and the gang I'm looking forward to meeting them on Saturday when people hear this it will be after Saturday but I'm looking forward to meeting

them and man Listen, I'm going to wrap this up here, but let's do this against. We need to get UFOs. Dude, you did say you have UFO encounters. I was with the national day Paul ladies and Dennis Foll and Jim, I think it was, put together the Mile High Conference where they brought in like Bigfoot and UFO together. And I was sitting at dinner with the National Director of Mufon Investigations. And I was just telling him a couple of my stories

And he was like, that is he's all I've heard one or two other people describe that same thing. He said he said that that when I told my I thought mine was like run to the mill And he said those were he said it was a pretty amazing. Well, tell me about it. Do you have time? Yeah, I mean, it's my show. I can go as long as I want.

It's just we were going for two hours and I want to hold you up and it's you know, whatever. I'm wide open, dude. I mean, I can go. If you if you, if you, don't you have like that Patreon? part or something? The Patreon's like three years ago, man. I have memberships on my website now. No, but I mean, this is all just going to be, this is all public.

It's all good. Okay. Go for it. Okay. And I think it was 89, 89, no, it was 88 or 89, I was going to Humboldt. Yeah, I was, I was working in the woods and I was going to school on a couple

nights a week and so I was going to Humboldt state part-time and I was at my buddies on-campus apartments and I went to go meet my buddies we were going to go surfing and his roommate came in and was just totally shook it up he was just like like and he knew I was totally all about big foot spinning on my surfboards and stuff and he knew I was all like I talked about it non-stop and he just came in and he was he was in shock and And he just said, he goes, wow, you know, he goes, we're like, what's that? He goes, you're right, do, they're real. You know, they're there.

And he, he wasn't like bragging about it. Or we had a pride out of him. He was really shicken up. He said he was fishing on Redwood Creek, which is right just, it's a Redwood National Park, a little town of Oric. He was fishing on the north upstream from the town, but inside of the town, it's right there. It's like a quarter mile away.

And he's fishing there where the. levees began and it was really, really foggy and it was mid-October and it was just pea-suit fog along the coastline. You're less than a mile from the ocean there, probably about a mile. And so you've got that coastal fog. And he's sitting there fishing and he's coming down the embankment of the, where the levee starts, you know, just gravel and stuff. He'd hear, you know, the elk come down.

They'd hear him hit the water and they'd start surging, you know, like walking into the water. and you'd hear less and less as they got deeper and deeper than all. Then you wouldn't hear him at all. They'd be floating as they were floating down river. They would be swimming across and you'd hear him start surging out as they got their footing. You know, and then hear it come out of the water, the water, you know, coming off them. And then they'd hear their hosts on the cobblestone rocks. It's all rocky.

And he was fishing for the steelhead run. So he's sitting there and his waiters out, you know, about a third of the way into the creek. It's really like a, it's the size. A lot of places would call us a river. When it's flowing, it's, it's river size for sure, like a small river. And he's sitting there fishing. And he said, also he hears like a, he thought it must be a couple big bull elks coming down because there's, you know, you'll see like four big bull elk that time of the year

before the rut really kicks off hard. They'll be kind of cruising around each other. So he thought it was some bull out coming across. And he said, they hit the water, he was just turned, whoosh, whoosh, and he said, and then he could hear the, like, you know, like the thighs going under, and then, but he could still hear it surging through the water, like, as it was stepping. You could hear it, like, surging across step by step,

and like the arm, I guess the arms were kind of like doing like a swimming motion. He's like, what the hell? These things weren't drifting down because the elk were coming in to his left up pre, and then as they hit the midstream, they'd, as they started swimming, they'd go down, they'd pass him in the fog in front of them, and then come out just to blow him. down river a little bit and come out and exit and head up head up back to the woods on the side of the creek so this thing never lost its footing so it didn't drift past him it just came

right out to the side of he said it looked at him glanced him like you're a nothing boy and just looked straight back ahead and then walked looking at the ground and saw where the elk tracks were then it just went off after the elk but he said it was about eight foot eight and a half foot probably about eight foot um you know he you know like six seven eight hundred pounds like bodybuilder buff, just huge. And it just happened that day because I've been looking around for Bigfoot stuff. And I've gone to like, you know, Bluff Creek and places where it was in the newspaper. But I had never been the first person to hear about something.

I'd never heard about anything that happened that day. Like I was so excited. But I just had my license suspended. So I couldn't drive. And then so my buddy's girlfriend and her friend, I'm like, hey, let's go out there. She goes, well, I got to work. We can go up this evening. I said, oh, great.

I go, oh, my God, I'm going to my first bigfoot investigation. I got some plaster and was so excited. And sure enough, she gets off work. We jump in her VW bug. We go driving up there. We're driving up highway 101. People on the West Coastmen are heading up towards Trinidad. We're heading up towards Trinidad.

We're going on the 101 north, north of Moonstone Beach where it leaves the beach. It goes into the woods, and you're heading parallel to the coast heading north. And these chicks are kind of trippy, hippie chicks from Sonora, like Sonora is a UFO hotspot spot. And they had been talking about UFOs all like, they came back from summer break and were like, oh my God, they were working out at some camp or something. And they were like, the UFOs up there were, you know, they'd talk about them all the time. I was like, oh, you know, all right, I believe in that.

I've never seen one. And we're driving up there. And there's this red light floating in the sky directly in front of us kind of drifting north slowly over the, it would have been out over the ocean because it was pretty far. It was miles away. but it looked like a kind of like a sort of cigar shape, red light with like a white tip on the on one side of it. And I'm looking at it going like,

oh, whatever. And then the girl in the back seats, like leaning in between the seats going, it's the mother ship. That's the ones we see. It's the mothership. That's the small ones coming out of. That's the mother ship.

And the girl driving's like, and the girl, I'll say this full disclosure, the girl in the back goes totally stone. And the girl driving, the girl in the front and I were totally sober. and she's talking about motherships. I'm like, God, she's really baked, you know, or whatever.

We're driving up, and then I'm looking at it, and she goes, that's a UFO. The girl drives me, that is a UFO. That's what we'd see. And I was like, no way, no way. And I just remember, like, it was like a, like, it almost like seemed like it, you know, I was in shock, but it seemed like it almost hypnotized me or something, you know, like, but I'm sure it's just my own cell. And I just, it snapped.

My brain just snapped. I could see it for what it was. Like, that's a UFO. That's not a plane. That's not a helicopter. That's a UFO because there's Coast Guard choppers fly out there all the time. I'm like, that's not the Coast Guard chopper. No way.

So we go driving up there. We got right to the town of Trinidad, the road bends. I'm sorry, we were heading due west. And then the road bends back to the north again, starts traveling up the coast north. We were driving along like it's like a bay, you know, point sticks out that Trinidad head. So we get right where the town is, we're turns from west to north. There's a big opening like the freeway off ramps where there. The trees are cleared out real wide.

We pulled over right there and we were watching this thing, slowly fly north. There was a car about 150 yards up the road from us further up the road, pulled over. And there's a couple cars past us. You could see there was someone sitting up on the side of that car watching the same thing we were. And then it kind of started going behind the trees head north. I said, let's go to Patrick's Point State Park. Let's get up there. Let's jam up there.

I know there's a perfect spot. there's a perfect spot. There's just wetting rocks out in the ocean. You can climb out on it. You can steer out in the ocean. You can further point out, and you've got an unobstructed view.

Let's go there. It's like a 10-minute drive or less. Like, let's go, let's go, let's go. So we jumped in the car. And as we start driving the car in front of us when we get closer, it was a higher patrolman. The higher patrolman was leaning on the hood of his car,

watching the same thing. We were, and I pull up to him. I said, stop, stop, stop. And we pulled up. I said, you saw that. well, did you call it? He goes, I didn't call it in. And we're like in the slow end just parked.

And he's sitting there on a set of cars. He said, you've got to call it in. You got to call it in. That's a UFO. You got to, you know, alert the authorities, call the news. You know, like, this is big news. He goes, I'm not calling anybody. He goes, you think I'm crazy?

I don't lose my job. And I'm like, you're not going to lose your job. You're going to be a hero. He just shook his head and said, you're blocking traffic. Get going. So we drove off. We went up to Patrick's point. Then we got up there.

And at first we seen him, five we did that that red white one flew way out further away from the rest out over the ocean then up higher then we've seen five little dot like pulsing lights like zipping around and it was the weirdest thing because there was no rhyme or reason like there's it's like these things just travel across the universe universes whatever to to check us out like why would they be flying erratically like no rhyme or reason like it just didn't make sense and um they had pulse like blue green, some were pulsing blue, green, white, other ones were pulsing, pulsing like blue, white, red, or just blue green. And they're just sipping around, but this one flu, a little less erratic, a little more subtly, like, just more gently kind of flowing.

And the other ones were really herky jerky. There's one that was only blue and green. That was only two colors of pulse. You couldn't see the shapes. They're just like, just like round balls of light. they're miles from us. And so we're watching this. I looked at the girls and I said,

does that one seem like? And they both said the same time I said it. We all three at the same time I said, a female. And we're like, no way. And then Cassie, the one girl,

she goes, you got to sit like this. You know, you got to sit like whatever lotus position, you know, like Indian style. Cross your legs in front of you and then put, your thumb and four finger together.

And then stick your, you know, middle finger and your, ring finger and pinky straight ahead that kind of like that Buddha pose she goes cross your eyes and cross it and she goes you can ask you the question I said

okay well let's we'll we'll all ask you at the same time if you're a female spin in fast tight circles so we did that and the thing I said okay we'll just keep repeating the question if you're a female spin in fast type circle so we said it once

the second time we started saying it it just goes and spun in really fast tight circles and we're like, no way. And Cassie's like, yeah, you know, you can ask some questions. And I can't remember what else. I mean, I was just so blown away by that. It was like, no way.

And then a couple hours later, like we watched things for hours. And four more appeared, but they kind of seem like there are stars that just kind of started vibrating. And then like they looked just like stars. They weren't really moving. And then they just started vibrating faster and faster. Next you know, they were like zipping around like the other ones, like come and like, look like they came closer. I mean, it's hard to tell what they're. It seemed like they got closer, but they're still a couple miles up away from us.

And then as we're watching that blue-green one, it flew over to the, it flew over big lagoon. It's the biggest California coastal lagoon. It flew over that, and it's right along the beach. And then it's redwoods all around. It's all redwoods. And you can see the highway where the 101, the major north-south artery along the California coast, in Oregon. And there's a few, you know, cars scattered along there over a couple of miles stretch. And that light, the ball flew over, got over by the highway and then flew over the highway.

Then like this whole spotlight, but like real broad came down, lit up like several hundred yards by several hundred yards. Just cone a light came down out of it. And it flew over the 101 and it's hovered over the 101. And we saw traffic from the north, like a couple cars from the north, a couple cars from the south over the next minute or two. come up and stop and just stop and like didn't drive into the light or just parked on the 101 looking at it you know just probably tripping out like we were that went on for like several minutes then it just light turned off and it just kind of zoomed back up to where the other ones were then about 3.30 in the morning something like that we'd watched them for about five and a half hours uh a group of uh

fighters came from probably, I think there's Air Force Base by Sacramento. So it seemed like they came from around there, and they came flying over the ocean. And when they got to where the lights where they went up and shot up towards them. And those lights just went zip and just like a blink of an eye, just shut off the fastest light and just shot. Like the best of going on like 15,000 miles an hour, just shot up into the sky. And we're gone within a second or two, like two seconds about. they were out of view. And those fighter pilots,

you can tell they must have done this 100 times. They just peeled off, flew back the way the king, got back in formation, and just flew away. They didn't chase them for two seconds. They just, as soon as they took off,

they just peeled off and went back the way they came. Then we went up and watched them, or it must have spent about 80 or 90 nights. We saw him over the next couple of years. Yeah, it was 89. And then in 93, my buddy was a professor down at San Diego State, him and a buddy mine, the buddy, he's now

a teacher at Harvard Medical School. So these guys are like, you know, pretty academic news. They're part of yours too. They are our bros. So they came up here, like, pounding beers and shit. And I said, I go, do that. I go, I think they want to pick me up. I saw him. I said, you know, like, I want to go for a ride

with these things. You know, you want to go for and this dude's pretty wild. He's like, he was the professor of San Diego. He was, yeah, man, they all go for a ride with you. And I said, all right. So he came up. We went out on the rocks and my brother and his buddy the other guy our mutual friend went back they went back to the car because they were tired if you were hiking around all night i said all right let's just sit here and um you know asked him to come pick us up and so i did like she showed us sat like the lotus

style put her palms up and that mothership they called the mothership the red and white one was way out way out over the sea must have been you can see about 15 to 18 miles out to the horizon something like that about when we were at our elevation. And as soon as we started saying, come pick us up, it kind of put us back into a, and they kind of could trend. I know like you're in shock and stuff,

but dude, there was numerous times we went up there with camcorders and good cameras, and we never took a picture the whole time. Like, it just would not even come to your mind. Like you were, you kind of felt like, like,

you had control of yourself. You could talk if you wanted to take a pee, whatever. Like, they weren't, like, nothing was stopping you or anything, but just felt like they had,

had like a like they had it's hard to explain but like the connection with you or something and so i said let's go for a ride you let's hold to pick us up so we're sitting there saying come get us come get us and that thing just all sudden dropped down like you're seeing like a spider house spider house spider drops down and just stops and kind of goes boink and just kind of like a little balance just stops it did that like exactly at our eye level look like and then just started speeding towards us like above the surface of the water like maybe 100 feet or something And I remember just going, oh my God. And like the reality of it was setting in, like, we're going to get picked up.

But I started thinking to Travis Walton. And I got to be friends with him from going to conferences and stuff. He's a, he's a now that I'm hearing that story from him. It's like, so I started thinking of Travis Walton. And I was like, then my inner voice, like this deeper voice in me just said, Bobo, these things are not your friend and they are not, you do not get on that thing. You do not want to get up. This inner voice in my head just kept saying,

it was me talking to me saying, they're not your friend leave, and I was frozen. I couldn't move. I was like in a trance. I felt like I was really in a trance. And I was fight with myself going, dude,

get out of here. And then I was just like, it was kind of like mental will. You know, I just said, all right, Bose, you can do this.

You're going to get up and you're going to get out of here right now. And I said, get up. And I'm like, I just broke through. Like it just, It just shattered.

Like I was out of, I was, bam, I was wide awake and totally conscious and totally in the moment. And I just, but I had total, total fear and panic in me, but I was,

I'm really good at staying calm in situations that are hectic. And, so I just go, all right. And I looked at it, Nick, I go, Nick, and he's just staring with his mouth.

His mouth was wide open. His eyes were wide open. He was just frozen staring at it. I go, Nick, I grabbed his shoulder. I was shaking him, shaking him.

I slapped him in the face. The second time I slept him super hard. He looked at, me. I grabbed him. I said, let's go. And he just sat there with his mouth and eyes open. He looked back at the thing. The thing's coming. It's getting close to us. I'm guessing 15 to 18 miles away when it started and it was probably five miles away at this point, three miles. So I grabbed Nick and started dragging and the staircases out there and everything is all carved out of the rock. So it's all granite rock. So I'm dragging him down these granite

stairs. And all of a sudden, he starts going, oh, he snaps out of an event. Like, he snaps out of an event. after about 20, 30 feet, and he dragging him down these granite stairs. And he scrambles to his feet and just screams and starts running and like just takes off. And so we were viewing it from the west side of the rock and the trail goes around to the backside of the east side of the rock. So you can't see out of the north of that point. And you go down the back of the rock and then there's a little isthmus that takes you back to the mainline. You know, it's right there. At high tide, it maybe gets a little wet up there once in a while.

You know, it's a dry trail. and we started jamming up to the parking lot in the in the state it's the state park so we're running up in and it's patrick's point state park we're running up there if you've ever go there people there's a you'll see there's a parking lot that has an old gray whale life-sized gray well spray painted on the ground for like teaching kids whale watching up there so it's like a 40-foot gray well painted on the on the parking lot where that's the park lot we're going up into so as we go up that trail it's oh there's this big i forget the name's those bushes but they're about eight foot high nine foot high something like that eight to ten foot eye and it's solid and we're running up that that path and there's you know and um we don't see anything else we see the red glow red and white glow and it comes between the comes around the rock and there's a little canyon that comes up we're going up in the canyon running up and we see the light and all there's a sea lion colony and a first hill colony out there and they both just start going crazy you just hear's It sounds like if a white shark grabs one of those things at night out there and the

grabs them like off the rocks, they all go crazy. It sounded like that, like the full warning. Like, oh, my God, like we're, I mean, you know, like someone's getting killed. It was that same barking panic, just full alarm sounds. And Nick and I are running up the trail. And I'm like, oh, my God, I glanced at him. I could see, I could see it was coming up the canyon, right pious. And we get up to the parking lot and we just stop.

And it comes up over the trees. and it's like a upside down lava lamp and you couldn't see the exact like definition of it but it looked like it was made up four panels almost like that were pulsing colors and it was just pulsing like red, white and blue and purple I think it was and it was just pulsing and then on each side of it it was about 40 foot tall

and maybe I don't know like 18 something feet wide its widest point but it was like it looked like an inverted lava lamp that was the shape of it But a little not so stretched out as a lava, like a squatty, like if you shrunk down a lava lap height-wise and kept the same width. And it floated up over the trees and floated over us. And the whole time around it was two red balls like basketball size were zooming around like a beauty queen's sash like from the shoulder down to the waist on the other side.

Like so say like that if it was like a beauty queen's torso. So one ball was going like one satchel, like from the left shoulder to the right waist, like that style. And the other one was going to the opposite direction, like left shoulder to the right waist. And they were just zooming around, like just zooming around it. And it flew past us. It flew over our heads. I'll never forget this. We were both in such shock.

As it flew over our heads. We just tilted our heads, tilted our heads and tilted our heads. We both fell on our backs. And I remember because I thrashed my elbows. Like I hit on my elbows. and it's gravelly kind of parking lot up there. It's paid, but it's like loose blacktop, and I got that like embedded my LOS bleeding pretty good.

I think I chipped a bone, actually. But that, and we just got to our feet back up looking and it stopped, like, not far from us. Like, there's probably 100, 120, 140 feet up in the air, something like that. And then didn't see any doors open or anything, but out of it came this like yellow hockey puck looking thing,

like maybe five feet. long by two foot high, something like that, two and a half feet high. And it just came out of it. But it just came out, but there was no opening that we saw. And it just floated out away from that, the big ship. And then the closer to us than the big ship was it just all of a sudden, dude, just started spitting out those red basketballs, like those red balls of light. They'd shoot out like a hundred miles an hour, like, shoo!

And they'd come out. And within like 10, 15 feet, they would just lose. all the momentum and just start floating slowly like just gliding around it just goes choo choo choo choo choo choo choo choo choo choo chud dude dude dude it must have shot out like 80 of them or in like 40 seconds or 30 seconds or something like that i mean it just shot these things out they all started floating around and they just were going through the trees they um some went back over the ocean some went um into the meadows there's a meadow right there it's uh if you ever saw the original at Jurassic park it's where the aerial shot of the Velociraptors going in on those guys from all sides in the in the field.

There's an aerial shot looking down. You see the velociraptors coming in from six sides. That's the meadow it was in in real life. And so then the big ship and we're sitting there looking at us going, oh my God. And then that orange, the kind of orange and yellow hockey puck looking thing, it followed us. We walked like a half mile out of the park and it followed us almost the whole way. And dude, we heard cars jump like people jumping in their cars. peeling out, ripping out of the campground.

It was off season, but there were still people in there. It was springtime. And I remember never forget looking over this family at this, this campground in the woods right there. And I could see the whole family that they were barbecuing marshmallows. There was yellow or red orbs in the trees. If they were looked up, dude, they never, they never showed any reactions. They didn't see them.

They didn't see any of it. They were all looking at the fire roasting marshmallows, like joking and laughing. And there was red orbs within 200 feet of like, 50, 70 feet in the air, like just a couple hundred feet away. They never, uh, we, I know they never saw them. A couple of minutes that they were in views were like maybe three or four minutes that we could see that camp and we could see some other camps, campfires and stuff and didn't hear any reactions, but subdued comes running through the meadow dragging like sleep back over

shoulder like tent with stakes dragging behind it. Like all clink, you can hear the, uh, the tent spikes, you know, um, jinglingling as he's dragging, running with his tent and sleeping back over his shoulder. The next service goes, there's some weird shit going on out here, man. And he just sprinted just, and he was, you know, maybe 100 feet from us. And he just was flying. We were just walking. Like, I'm like, I'm not running, dude.

I'm just walking fast because that the yellow one was falling us, like up above us, like behind us, off to the side of like it was, it was hugging the tree line going in and out of the tree line. And it flew by, it was closer to some campers and us at certain points. And then it followed us for about five minutes and it stopped. We were walking out of the park. We were cutting through where the employee housing is. And there were two park employees.

I think they're, I don't know, they're biologists or what they were, rangers or whatever. They were sitting on the back porch watching it. I said, no way. You guys saw that. Did you call it in? They're like, no, they just smiled and shook their heads. No, nope. And they just smiled.

And I was going, dude, call that in. That was crazy. You got to call that in. You guys got any cameras. They were like, shaking. They never said anything. They just said, no, nope. and smiled and shook their heads.

Nope, nope. And then we walked out and we were just in shock. And my brother and his buddy were sitting in the car waiting for us. We got in the car and just drove home, just minds blown. Yeah, that's like you bury the lead. That's wild. Did you, because I mean, so I think you said there were park rangers there. And they're just kind of like.

They're employees. They're an employee housing. Are there dangers or a biologist or a biologist or something like that? But the way they acted was very, it sounds very casual. Yeah, like they'd seen it. Yeah. In the moment of what you're experiencing, like, does that moment feel like you're, like you might be meeting your maker that day kind of thing?

Or, oh, shoot, I might actually take a ride in one of these things. Like, was it that kind of like, was there a fear? Or was this more curious? There was something saying like just, I don't know, guardian angel, whatever you want to call it, like your subconscious, whatever, something was telling me. It was my own voice, but it was my own voice really clearly saying, this is not your or not your friends, do not get on that thing.

But they didn't do anything to us. They never heard us or anything like that. But that's just the feeling I got was to get out of it. I didn't want to get probed. Yeah. I totally understand, you know, like they have a bad habit of doing butt stuff. So, yeah, we can pass on that. Yeah.

Then I had one other weird one that I saw. And I was seen of all the nights we saw those lights out of those, there was the only time I ever saw shape on those ones. Except I think I saw the red and white one in the daylight at sunset one time. Like the sun was below the horizon, but it was still totally light out. It was the only time I saw one like where you could see like, it was the only daylight setting I had of one. It was just hovering there over the ocean up at Big Lagoon,

the next two lagoons up, maybe five, seven miles, something like that, five miles, four miles. And we'd got done surfing me, my buddy were sitting there. And it was just hovering out over the ocean, not far away. I mean, it was close. And it was way less than a mile from us. And it flashed red and white. It was like a metal aluminum-looking cigar.

It looked like a cigar made out of it. of aluminum and just blinked flash red white and it looked like it looked like the red part like like it looked like maybe 75% of it two thirds of it flash red and the other part to the the part of the right flash would be a third or a quarter of white and it looked like the red part shot off to the left like just boom gone but they were both gone it just blinked out like it was just boom there it was gone there was a flash light and it was gone but the only time i saw like a real good structure one I was down I was off the

Lost Coast and I'd always I spent a lot of time on there commercial fish down there and I worked down there I surfed down there a lot and I was on a search with my buddy Tracy we were going to boat up the next day to this place called Big Flats on the Lost Coast it's like a was a secret surf spot

you can only access by plane or boat or if you hike into this another trail like 11 miles or something climbing rocks and steep black sand beaches getting pounded by ways. It's a it's a beautiful spot, but it's hard to get to. And we were going to boat up there the next one. There's a big swell pump and we were all excited. And we saw these two also. It was the first I ever saw down there in Southern Humboldt that I ever saw lights off shore.

There's those little zigzagging lights. It's coming. They'd come from below the horizon, above the horizon, uh, over the way out to sea. And it's some those weird ziggas, zig, zig, zigz around, zapped around and shoot back down. So we watched that for like, whoa, I was like, Yeah, I was telling you, Tracy, that's what I was seeing. That's why I see the years like, oh, that's crazy. And then we laid down, we were just sleeping on the ground. There was going to be several hours till daylight. Then we were going to boat up, go surfing.

And we see this ship coming, like, I mean, something in the air. And it was shaped like, kind of like a, it had like a neck. Like a, it was metal. It was, you know, some kind of craft. But it looked like it had a neck. neck and then like a shovel nose shark head to it. Like it was a rounded, kind of like not quite crescent. It was like a flattened out crescent shape.

And then it came. So it kind of curved back. And then it went back straight line, straight back. And they did a 90 degree angle into where the neck would be. Like the head like it. So it curved from the front. The furthest point curved back on both sides, got to a certain point, went straight back on a straight line.

did a 90-degree angle came not all the way together, and then there was like a neck section, connection to the main body, and the main body was, it was a flat, 100-degree plane where the neck connected to it, and then it slightly arched out, as it went back to the back,

it was slightly arched out a little bit, and then came back, and then it stopped that it did a 100-degree flat plane across the tail section, and it would look like a black beam of light would come out of it, like a funnel came out of the front of it, like a black beam,

then it would just shoot through the black beam and stop again, and then it would, the black beam would come out, and it would shoot, it would shoot out this like, cone looking with black, and it would instantly suck it forward.

Like, it was jumping, like, but fast, like, I mean, it was doing like half mile jumps at a time, like, like, bam,

bam, bam, I mean, it was covering a lot of ground, but it was a really trippy thing. Like, I don't, I still, and it flew up over Kingspeak,

the highest coastal peak on the west, Western U.S. It's the highest coastal. It is the mountain right behind Big Flat. And it flew over Kings Peak and then flew down in Big Flat Cricket. It's a big watershed. And it flew down behind the mountain and into the canyon. And we just sat there and watched all the way until the day that.

We never saw it again. It was nuts. Like we never went to bed. We just sat there and were just tripping out going, oh, my God. And, yeah, that was pretty weird. And I told some UFO guys about that. and they were like, this one guy was something that he thinks, he goes, oh, it was doing an anti-matter beam, and it was creating a vacuum,

then it would suck the ship into the vacuum. And that's how it was propelling it. What? That's what was some of you, a Mufon guy told me. Wild. That's wild. Holy crap. Was that like beyond your comprehension when he said that?

Or you're like, oh, yeah, I heard that before. I've heard like antimatter and particle beams. And I've heard, I hate to listen to Art Bell, you know, I heard a lot of weird stuff. But I wasn't like a UFO guy. Like I was always like, well, that's cool to see, but I can't do anything about it. I'm not going to go find footprints of aliens or hairs of aliens or record audio of an alien. Well, you know what I mean?

You can go to Vegas now and find footprints of aliens, I think. Really? Well, yeah, they had that crash. Did you see that crash, that UFO crash? Oh, yeah. Was there footprints from it? I mean, I doubt it. I was doing that more tongue-in-cheek, but I mean, I don't know what that whole

thing was about. But, you know, they said they had like eight foot creatures in their backyard. You know, there's got to be some kind of physical. If that's true, there's got to be some kind of physical evidence towards that. You think? Yeah, for sure. Did you ever see James Fox's movie, the Veringa crash, whatever that one was? A moment of contact, I think it was, documentary on the UFO crash with the alien down in Brazil.

Oh, no, I haven't seen it, but I know what you're talking about. Oh, dude, you got to watch that. Sorry, I will. He did the two best UFO documentaries ever. He did that one. He did the phenomenon, whatever, I think the phenomenon. Yeah, the phenomenon where you had like, you got Harry Reid, the Senate Majority Leader, retired from the head of the team.

Senate from Nevada had him on came out on public and said UFOs are real I mean he's got he had those kind of people on his documentary but he's those are the two best documentaries I've seen on the UFOs by far yeah uh Harry Reid I think he was heavily involved in the Skimwalker Ranch as well when he was yeah active in politics which has a lot of ties into the UFOs obviously um yeah with uh watch the vringa crash I mean it dude it it pretty much proves the U.S. has a crash and a body, a ship in a body, for sure.

I'm typing it down now. But... If you look at James Fox UFO, it's his last two movies. James Fox, got it. So, what do you think it is that people are sitting in the sky that you saw in the sky?

Do you think it's, like, actually extraterrestrial from another planet? Or do you think that there's more interdimensional aspects of this. I mean, with what's been coming out recently, it does point towards interdimensionalism as well as extraterrestrial. Yeah, and I'm getting more and more of the idea of like they might just be from here, just different planes, you know, different dimensions, like parallel dimensions right here the whole time and they just cross back and forth. I mean, I don't know, like, I used to think like, oh, they're probably

like, you know, doing like DNA experiments, you know, that, and Like, well, if there's, I mean, look at, we're primitive little perilous age running around. Like, look at the leaps. We've been in DNA in the last 30, 40 years. These things are interstellar traveling. It wouldn't take millions of years of evolution to, you know, do. It would be a lot quicker, I think. I think, I don't think that, that doesn't make sense to me now, like the whole DNA thing.

That makes no sense to me. I mean, I can't figure it out, like, how it ties into, like, biblical things, like, ancient prophecies. you know, there's so many angles to it. Like, who knows, I think we're going to find out more and more, but the government, I don't think from what I, when I gather, the government doesn't really know either. No one knows. I wonder if, if they don't really know,

I wonder if it's something that they are earnestly trying to seek answers to or they're playing more defense where they're just trying to prevent other people from finding answers. You know what I mean? Because, like, if you get to a, a certain point where you feel like you've exhausted everything and you have no clue on it.

Do you switch to the point where now you put things out as disinformation to lead others, organizations, countries, astray from finding out the answers because you don't have a clue, you know? That's part of it. Yeah, I mean, the Russians, it's like, you know, the Russians,

they thought we had technology. They didn't have, vice versa and whatever. You know, like, there's all kinds of disinformation. That's why it's just tough. Like, why they're releasing this now? You know, why they, because they can, uh, did you ever watch the X-Files?

Yeah. In real life, the smoking man is based on two real people who are combined character. And I'm good friends with the one guy who's, that was his father. He was, um, he ran the division of, um, what was it? The UFO people all know is like, uh, is it CG and G or EG and G? They were there, they were the, they're the, they're the, they're the division of, um, it was contractors run area 51 and the Bob Lazard, whatever that was S4 or something like that. Yeah.

Like that wasn't run by the Air Force. That was all that's all Black Ops contract stuff. And his dad, his dad was that guy that was involved in all that stuff. And he's told me all kinds of crazy stuff. He's like, oh, we absolutely have, you know, crap with Bob Lazzar says is totally true. like some of these things they found excavating, like, they think the thing might be a million years old, judging by the geology around it.

I mean, like ancient, ancient, ancient. Like they said, they're not perfect. They're like, they crash. Like they, there's competing. They think there's, like, they might shoot each other down, like different species or whatever they are, or whatever you define them as, like, they have fought each other.

My grandpa was really high ranking in the FBI when he retired, really high ranking. And he did not like me, looking into the Bigfoot thing and UFO thing is I wasn't really into UFOs. I was always I still am into Bigfoot like I don't give a shit about ghosts. I mean, I've seen them. I made a real but I could care less. I think I'm really interested in UFOs but there's nothing I can nothing I can

solve like I got I've got experienced Bigfoot and like you know bring back some like real evidence or something but UFOs just beyond my scope. I'm into it like there's something in the news about it all or whatever like there's I'm buddies with the guy James Fox that made those movies. movies, he turned me on to some stuff and told me some stuff. And I met those guys at Dave Paul Eddy's and Dennis Fulles conference. They'd move on guys. Like, spend a weekend with them, you know, had dinner and lunch with them and stuff like that.

And I had a table, like our merch tables were next to each other. So those guys blew me away with how much information we actually have on UFOs. I didn't know we had all that, all that information. But still, they don't know what they are. But my grandpa said what he told me was that in the, and when the crashes down in in Roswell in 47 was that we were testing a new radar system down in the southwest down there

and it was just crazy like they couldn't use it. When they turned it on, it fried all the radios and transmitters and they said when they flipped it on that there was a new type of radar. The second it turned on, it picked up those two crafts and one crashed in Mexico, one crashed in New Mexico.

They said that, that that when they turned the thing on, but it was so disruptive to all the electronics. It fried everything around it that they never turned it on again. But he said that's what he heard brought down to the UFOs. And he said, but all that stuff's crazy. Don't you mess around that.

It'll mess with your mind. Don't go mess with that. You're not going to find any answers. And everyone that's in that stuff is crazy. Don't get linked up with all those crazy. That's what he told me. I'm going to have a Bigfoot TV show. I mean.

So you get more UFO information? Yeah, yeah, I'm just, I think it's funny how our lives take twist and turns. I'm sure he never would have thought that you would wind up on TV doing Bigfoot and talking on a podcast about your UFO encounters, you know? Yeah. It's wild. So we were just talking a little bit here about, where you mentioned something about, forget how you phrase it, but it just made this pop in my head with what you said Moneymaker

is announcing at the conference this weekend. Do you think that there's room for the opportunity for nefariousness when it comes to that? Do you think that they, that they, there could be alternative, alteria, I can't think of the word, I'm looking for it. ulterior yeah motives to the whole thing and they you know that it's like

here's half truths we're not going to give it all to you kind of thing so do you think that there's room for them to maybe basically turn it into a sci-up I don't think this is I mean

who knows it could be but I doubt it I mean I think you know I was so shocked I think because the Tick-Tac videos and that stuff was so like just not high quality. It was so, you know, just a little dot thing. But it's, but with the disclosure from like, you know, the New York Times article in 2017 and everything since then, you know, I thought it had, it didn't make that much of an impact

at all. It was just like, oh, huh, I'm like people just, oh, okay. And just went back to their normal lives, you know, it's like, it didn't, I don't know, it's weird, but they said, well, they're afraid of it disturbing the economy. I mean, like the UFO, they could just, you know, like cause the powers that be to lose their power that people think, oh, you guys aren't in charge and more of these things are in charge. But I think Bigfoot disclosure to have much bigger impact on the U.S. economy and psyche than if the government admits their real. I think it would be way bigger deal. Like Cliff says, no, that no, no, no care.

I said, I disagree wholeheartedly. I think it would have a huge impact. Besides the extraction industry, natural resources extraction, like logging and mining, I think what the biggest impact would be, would be on. the outdoor retail markets, you know, like camping and hiking and backhugging, all the towns and counties and that, you know, businesses that live off people going in the outdoors and also rural residents,

all the people that have moved in, like all the people that have moved out of the summer and were like, you know, places on the edge of the woods. They're like, you know, like, you know, some guy comes home and tells his wife, you know, did you hear that news today? Like, you know, Bigfoot, she's like, I'm not having my kids exposed.

of these bigfoots, we're moving back to town. You know what I mean? Like, it could cause a disruption in the real estate markets for sure, like all those, there's going to be a lot of people that are like, those things are real. Like, they will not want to live out there. Yeah, no, you're right. I mean, just the- Well, you can't, there's monsters walking around.

Exactly. I mean, there's a sense of security when it comes to the idea of UFOs existing, the government saying UFOs exist because they're up there, we're down here, and as far as we know, it hasn't turned into the movie signs yet, other than Vegas recently. But

when you say Bigfoot's real, what people are going to hear is, so you're telling me there's a monster in the woods. Yes, there's this giant creature walking around the woods on stealth mode where more than likely, you're not even going to know

it's there unless it wants you to know. Like, that's terrifying for people. Absolutely. All the drone footage from Southern California and Australia and all the great white sharks swimming amongst the swimmers and surfers, like, and no one knows. And they're five feet from these great white sharks and they never know it. Same thing. Oh, my gosh.

I can't imagine. I can't imagine. That would be terrifying. Have you ever been that close to a great white? dude you want to hear i've got a few good i've seen guys get attacked right next like right in the what i've been right yeah i've seen guys get attacked oh my god we used to serve we used to search um dude the biggest day i ever paddled out i used to be pretty like you know surfing i wasn't great or nothing i wasn't a pro but i was i was into surfing big waves and the biggest day i

ever tried to paddle out was at patrick's point that point break that sticks out in the ocean i was talking about sticks out in the ocean where i saw the ufoes that flew over our heads right there um this guy Greg Golsin is like biggest big wave guy guy he was the only guy that made out these other big wave guys that were like legends they they couldn't even get off the shore it was so gnarly big i jumped out and i punched out i was right my 10 six gun i was paddling i was a really good shape you know i searched a lot and i was commercial fisherman i was you know wintertime so i was i was ready for it and i paled out as i was paling out it was it was literally the biggest sets for like 50 60 foot on the face like and i think a couple of biggest ones were maybe 70s way out like they were breaking out a couple miles out at sea and then they were coming in hitting the point and just we were we were we laid we laid I know how deep was just like 90 feet out there because we laid we lay crab pots out there and dude I was duck diving through like just mountains just starting to pitch and I was like barely punching through the getting out the backside like not getting sucked over and you know you can you can really drown on that stuff there's no

help. There's no one around. And as I'm paling up, it took me about 45 minutes to get through all the soup lines and, you know, battle my way out there. And I was sprint paddling the whole time. I was exhausted. I got to really deep water. I knew I was in about 100, I was in about 20 fathoms right there. It's about, I noticed, I knew right where I was. I was in about 20 fowlis, which is like 120 feet. And I was just resting, like just going, ha, like just panting, like just totally like just noodle arm practically. And I was pretty nervous. I was like, How am I going to get back in? I'm going to get killed just trying to get in.

Like it's so gnarly out here. Like I was way out of it. There's nobody I could have run. I couldn't ride those ways that. Greg caught one. He caught one. And I'm out in the channel way out of, I'm three crores a mile off the point.

And he's riding this like 50 foot plus wave just. And I looked at it. I could see his face and he's just, this guy's giant dinosaur balls. And he looked nervous, dude. He was just, he wasn't car. He was just survived. with going straight.

It was kind of bumpy. It was pretty bumpy. He was just flying by. I see him just keep going and go. He never kicks out. He just rode it all the way to the beach. He's like, a good three-quarters mile inside of me. And then I'm out there alone.

Like, oh, my God, this is great. And obviously a huge storm had come through. Those would breed up that swell. So the storm had come through and just caused all this fleas. There was tons like there was like dead sheep floating out in the water because the clowns river flushes all this stuff out from the floods. But it rains that hard, it'll flood and wash out like stumps and old logs along the riverbanks. Like they get big redwood stumps and logs floating out there.

It's pretty dangerous, really. And so I'm sitting there and also in the water, it's less than six inches. There's like literally less than six inches of visibility in the water. And the water just starts churning underneath me. And I'm like, oh, shit. I was like, it's got to be a stump or a log. And the water just starts boiling up underneath me. And boom, like by the tail of my board.

It gets nudge pretty hard and lifts out of the water, probably like six, eight inches, something like that. And I kind of get pitched forward on my board a little bit. And I grab my rails and I curl my feet up, bring my legs up in the air. And I got up, I put my hands and knees right there. So I was making, because they bite the head of the tail. Like they usually go for the tail of the sea line, like a big way that will go for the head, maybe. They almost always go for the tail. Like they come up, bite at the tail area, get it to bleed, give it like a brutal bite.

And then swim away, maybe come back and hit it again. let it bleed out and die, their usual MO. Or sometimes I'll just come in and just ragged it, like latch on and just ragged all and tear the seal in half. I've seen that too. So it starts turning to me, I'm like, it's just a bump, it's just a stump. And then the next thing I know,

because a couple of my roommates have been attacked. And like they all see the same thing. Like I've known 15 guys have been bit over the years. And they all say it feels like it's the most pressure you ever felt on your leg. just this steel bear trap clamp just clamp like you don't really feel pain at first it's just super and in craziest pressure you've ever felt just crushing you and all of a sudden my leg slams back on my deck of my board i'm not at sea with the biggest swells i've ever been in like giant giant sir shit i was already i was already i was already and all of a sudden my leg and all of a sudden i'm

going backwards in the tail of my board's going underwater and i'm grab my board and i don't know if you know about fiberglass but I had a double six top and bottom s cloth six ounce fiberglass so it's it's pretty thick then I had a deck patch on another because it's a big heavy big wayboard so I had six ounces I had three six ounce layers on the deck then double six on the bottom and I put my like I grabbed it so hard I put my fingers through like I did it like into the fiberglass my fingers went in like made in pressure pretty deep I just held on and I'm getting it's trying to pull me off the back of the board and I'm going backwards and there's water going over my, starting to go over my head. I'm starting to go under more and more.

And I'm just like, oh my God. And all my friends are the same thing. If you ever get attacked, close your eyes because the worst thing about it being attacked is the nightmares. You always see the thing its mouth wrapped around you and you're getting eaten alive. All my buddies live, but they all report the same thing. So I was like, oh, man. So I had my eyes closed. I clapped my eyes shut.

I said, when it lets go, I'm just going to paddle straight into the whitewash and just get washed it. If I die, die, whatever. But I'm not going to get eaten alive. So I'm getting dragged backwards. And then all of a sudden my leg comes off the board. And I'm going sideways. My board's starting to kind of, but I'm holding it trying to hold it on. I'm holding onto it and not letting it like T-bone on me.

Like, you know, like, I didn't want to let go because I didn't want to let it, I did not want to let go of my board. So I was just clamp, clamped out with a death grip. Then I feel all the pressure on my ankle. Then I realize I'm not bit. It's something wrapped around my leash. And I had this DeKine, they're a sort of product company. They made me a custom 18 foot. They'd make these custom 18 foot leashes.

They used to hook me up with these big wave leashes because you need a real big, heavy. They're really thick and long. And mine was so stretched out from being, you know, getting ragdolled so many times, getting caught inside or pitched, not making a drop, whatever. We had just mentioned my lease like a week before and it was 27 and a half feet long. The longest lease that anyone had ever seen. And it was ridiculous, but it worked.

It held up. So my leash was hanging way down in the water. And so I opened my eyes and going, I'm getting towed under something's hooked on my, something's hooked on my, something. I was thinking, well, it could be, maybe it's a whale. And I was thinking shark. But when I opened my eyes, she was up my eyes, I turned my head to look. I just see coming down in the air, this giant.

white shark tail just in the air coming down and just hits the water like a foot in front of my face and just or maybe two foot in front of my face and just hit me so hard and it blew my eyelids all the way up all of them blasted my eyeballs shot water up through my sinuses in back in the back of my throat and made my head go and snap my head back there was like a fire hose in my face a salt water and it did that twice then there was a huge spout roiling giant splashing and then my leash popped loose and I shot up and my board was the tail my board was underwater it came bouncing back up and I just screamed my buddy was this guy was on the cliff there's a couple guys on the cliff watching they're watching the waves break out off the

they weren't even looking at me because I was just sitting out the resting I wasn't I wasn't surfing I was just sitting there trying to get the nerve to go paddle in in one of those and try to get in and I screamed. I just go, screamed the F words loud. I just go, ah, like just so loud.

They heard it over the roar of the ocean like a mile away. They looked out, they saw that huge splashing boil. They didn't, they couldn't really see it. They just saw a huge splashing boil. And then me just paddling straight side, like not to catch.

I was just paddling for the white water just to get out of there. Now as a whole other story, almost died coming in. But so what happened was, I think what it happened is when it came up, it bumped me, it bumped me three times because the last time it bumped me, it bumped me like a foot in the air. And I was like, that's when I had my eyes shut. I was just going, please don't, don't bite me. And then my leg got slammed and then I was getting dragged backwards.

And then all of a sudden on pop free, it only lasted like the whole dragging incident was probably five seconds, six, seven seconds. It wasn't more than probably seven seconds. And then I think what happened was with sharks, when they get hooked on, when they get stuck. That's why they get caught in those shark nets. As soon as they get snagged or hooked on rope or anything, or whatever it is, they go in like an alligator, like a death, they start rolling and thrashing to break free.

And I think what happened was, I think it must have bumped me, hooked its pectoral fin, swam back down. My leash was wrapped on its pectoral fin. It realized it was going on. And it slapped and spun because they, they saw like a explosion like it was spinning,

like it spun around a couple times. And judging by how long my leash wasn't Where it's pectoral thing would have been It had to be, and this has been on Sharpwick, the biggest great white sharks in the world have seen where this is right along the coastline where they're seeing right at the mountain bolt. It was at least a 17 footer.

I mean, the tail was giant. It was huge. It just, and I think what happened was it spun, and luckily for me, it spun that way that's let my leash popped off. But if it would have spun the other way, spun into the leash, it would have just wrapped me in my board up.

like, you know, like real something like a fishing reel. I would have got me and my board would just got sucked up, wrapped around it and it would have dove down and just drowned me. No one would ever see me again. Jeez. Do you? Yeah. So like that day that that happened, you get to shore.

I'm assuming you would call it a day, right? Like you don't go back out. Oh, dude. I almost died coming down on the cliffs. And then I got washed up on the beach. It coming in. It was so crazy, dude. Like I got shoved.

up on the i got they call it the bone yard graveyard i got washed through that but the white water was so thick so big and it was kind of a high tide if people know about swells it was it was 27 feet at 20 seconds

if you know anything about ocean ocean swells it and you got to double the 27 foot you got to double and then add on for the sets even bigger so it was you know it's 50 60 50 50 75 face it was pretty got, when I got washed up, I washed up on the beach, like it's about a, the trail comes down and then

the trail ends, but to get the last part, it's logs, like wired together with cables. Like each step is a five foot section of log, like about an inch log, five foot long. Every like two feet, there's one cable together, making like a ladder down, like not ladders, but just stairs down on the beach. I got watched up past that into the brush. Me and my board, and when the white water went back, receded, I was like six feet in the air, in the branches with my board and leash all wrapped up in this bushy tree thing. And I had a, you know, wiggle out of that, get my board and leash and run up the trail to get it.

It was big. I was watching across the whole thing going up into the creek into the canyon. It was giant. It was the biggest I ever saw it. I mean, I don't know how somebody that goes through something like that decides to go back on the waves ever again. like why? It didn't bite me. Huh?

It could have bit me. It didn't bite me. It just got snagged on me. It was just like an accident. Didn't attack me or nothing. Ah, dude, I don't know. Your friends, you said you had like 15 friends that have been bit. Did they, did any of them ever quit surfing because of the bite?

Or did they all be like, no, man, we're going to continue to do this crazy stuff? They slowed down, but they all still surf. Well, no, one guy. did die Jimmy Jimmy got killed. But he was diving. He was urchin diving. You're way worse diving. I seen a shark that was bigger than that.

You ever see deep blue on Shark Creek, that giant biggest one they were filming was 20 feet long, 10 feet long, 5,000 pounds. We had one that was called Charlie Shark up here that was bigger than that. What? Yeah, that's swim up with me diving. If you look at the stats, dude, divers, if you're in 50 feet deep or if you're in water, more than 50 feet deep, and you get attacked by a Great White or a Mika

and deep water offshore, it's a 100% fatality rate. Because they get so much speed because when they come up from below, when they're in deep water, they get so much speed when they hit you, and their teeth are so sharp, and you're going to bleed to death. They usually finish you off with multiple bites at that point.

But I was diving off Shelter Cove. Before work, I'd be at work at 6 a.m. So it was late June, whatever. And it was right before July because they closed the abalone season for July. And back then you could get four abs. I could jump out and literally swim out less than five minutes to get my four abs, swim back in, change up, be at work before six a.m. So I jumped out there to dive.

It was still kind of, it's pretty dark and murky underwater. And I could barely see it. But I knew where the abs were. This one, we call it the wall. He'd go off the wall. You know, swim out through like a little canyon, go offshore a little ways. And then dive down. It was about, I don't know, like 15, 20.

25 feet deep around there, 30 feet. So I dove down and there was a huge dinner plate ab in the back of this crack. I'm working on it. I already had two in my one arm and my left arm, my right arm. I had my abalone bar. And I always kept a dive knife struck to my arm. And they were put on, people put on their, they're supposed to put on your calf or on your waist or whatever.

But I was like, that's where you get bit. I always get there my arm because I had to pull it out, I could stab with it. But I remember just all the hair on my neck going up, it gets darker. all the little fish that hang out around you like waiting for you to like because when you pry off the abalone a lot of times like the little particles break off it little chunks they come in and you know scoop it up all the little fish just disappeared this shadow came like in this gnarliest just feeling of doom just overpower and I'm like oh my god there's a shark right there and it was pretty big that day I

remember this too I remember numbers pretty good it was nine feet at 14 seconds which is kind of gnarly to dive on the reef out there at that size swell. It's pretty big swell. You know, it's like 15-foot face sets. And so you have to be careful when you time it going in and out and coming to the surface and this and that. So I'm right there, and there's waves breaking whatever, like the water's surgeon. It's surging pretty good. There's low visibility.

And I slowly turn around. I had my avar and pointed out like a weapon as I turned and I dropped the two abalonees. and I just see this tail, dude, to look about as tall as me. And going into the murk, like I see, just as it disappeared as I've looked over, I mean, it's just right in front of me and up a little bit. Like, I see the top of the dorsal fin coming down to the thick body

and then the pectoral fins. Like when they're agitated, they put their fins down more. Usually they kind of point them down more. And like the top of that dorsal fin to the bottom of those pectoral fins, this thing, we've seen it, dude. It's a solid 25 footer. It's giant.

It's unbelievable. It's like a sea monster. And I just see it melt into the, into the depths. And it kind of looked like my, you know, they swim side to side. I thought in my imagination,

it was making a turn, like to come back towards me. Because they usually, they don't just attack it. They usually swim by you a few times before they attack, but you just don't see them. And so I was like,

shit. So I was holding my breath that. I was almost out of air when this happened. I'd probably been down for about 90. seconds at that point when I saw it. I could sit down a couple minutes, no problem. When you get nervous and when you see something like that, because you've got to stay calm and keep your heart rate low.

My heart just started beating like 200 beats a minute. I could feel my air going away fast. I was waiting and wait. I was just about to suck water. I shot to the surface and I turned my back to the ocean. I was like, I don't want to see it coming. So I turned my back. Just far ahead of the surface.

Wow, that slammed from the back. Just smashed face first, and it broke my mask. I actually chipped a tooth and got a fat lip a little bit, a little bit of a black eye and I have all full disclosure I had a little bit of a little bit of a dude who came out in my wetsuit

like I cramped a little chunk of crap came out like I just let loose dude and then I what happened was I'd swam up I didn't pay attention to the surf I swam right up into a wave breaking on the rocks on the wreath I just got slammed face first into the rock, breaking waves just right on my head,

slam me into the rocks. I dazed me. I wasn't knocked out of nothing, but I was definitely seeing stars. I climbed up and then I scound up there. There's urchins. I got like urchin spines in me and stuff like sea urchin. They're pretty gnarly.

So I'd be getting cut up by, you know, the barnacles and then the urchins. So I'm getting, I got a few spines to me in my knee and I climb up on this rock. And like I'm getting kind of, here comes another way.

I get blasted. And I have to swim through this channel. And I had borrowed my buddy's weight belt. He goes, if you don't bring my white belt back, he'll be $100. I said, no problem. Oh, yeah, no worries. I just threw that weight belt off, jumped in the, and then I waited a couple ways. I was getting knocked off and I was getting knocked around up there.

And so I just jumped in and swam for it, just went across that where people have seen him in this channel, like this can't, little canyon, offshore canyon. Like, they've been seen in there grabbing seals and stuff. And I swam through that, just expecting it bit in half the whole way. And I swam out, got out. There's no one around, you know, there's none up there. on the cliff and I just got all the wires have this experience and kind of like that I just had to go straight to work.

That's crazy. Yeah. That's wild man. That, I'll tell you, I think you've lived a life that has, I mean, your life is like 10 lives of what I've lived. It's incredible. Like you've, I mean, from the near death

shark attack experiences to Bigfoot, finding Bigfoot, to UFOs shooting it's like a intergalactic war happening right before your eyes. I mean, it's crazy, man. I don't know. I'm impressed

by your life. I didn't see any intergalactic war by my grandpa told me that that's what he had heard. Oh, it was your grandfather. Okay. Yeah, that's what he heard when he's in the FBI. But he said he wasn't sure he believed, he didn't necessarily believe in it. That's all you heard, but he said the whole UFO thing was for crazy people. Yeah, well, I mean, we're all a little crazy, right? So, yeah. Yeah, but how would you say? Not me. No, not you. Of course not. No, I think that it's been a wild ride, man. I'm excited to see.

So do you think that when you kind of go out, when you go out in the woods now, do you still go out with the same purpose of trying to find evidence and bigfoot or you kind of going out there on a more zen mode of just being in nature and just being part of the environment? Yeah, mostly just cruise, but I bring a recording therm. I don't always bring, like I didn't have a therm for quite a while. The ones I had crapped out and, you know, and I just didn't have one for a couple, you know, a couple of years. I'd go out with people that had them, but I didn't have them.

I just go out. I just go out, like, you know, I had some experiences, nothing crazy or anything. Doing it like that. I never had a setting just doing that, but I've had them come around a few times, you know,

actually the list of, I've had them coming around me the last several years has just been not particularly, I'm just out there, you know, I mean, I'm the areas where they are, but I'm not out there specifically for that. I'm just out there to be out there.

Yeah. If they come around, that's great. You know, I mean, I kind of, I mean, I'd love to get like thermal, some thermal footage or, you know, like some, like get something solid, you know, just to contribute like to the knowledge base and little redemption maybe for people, the naysayers. But I was convinced it was going to be solved in my lifetime. But now, like, the university is jumping in. And Meldraveser's working with a lot of scientists behind the scenes, Jeff Melgram. I mean, there's a lot of really qualified, highly credentialed people that are, you know, that have really been jumping on board, but they're still staying in the background.

But, I mean, he's got a dozen PhDs on the real accommodated inquiry board, board direction there, like the panel, whatever, that oversees the whole thing. There's a lot of people getting into it. That's why, like, we're doing Bigfoot and Beyond. We had a couple of dog man, people on and stuff. At this point, because Cliff's pretty respected in that field, like by the scientific community, even though he's like a layperson citizen scientist.

But Meljum says, he goes, he goes, I have PhD students that don't have Cliffs' breadth of knowledge of the subject at not even close to Cliff. He said, Cliff's definitely PhD level in this, that one aspect of things, you know. Yeah. But so we're kind of back on, like I told Cliff, I said, all right, him talking about U.

foes and spirits and portals and demons and dogmen and bigfoots and you know it's not it's not doing the subject and it's not going to help I want real result I don't I want science I want science to get in on it I want the credential people with the with the equipment and the funding and the time and the resources necessary to get some solid answers which I think is there especially starting with the DNA I want to so I told Clint I said all right I won't I'll be trying to on too many of the woo aspect like uh only that to tony yeah i was i was just going to say leave it to me but i'll fully expect not to get an invite anytime soon because i can't but i mean but i think once we establish this part i think if the research you know these guys are out in the fill

with these things for the next 10 years like they go oh god we got dna they're they have the fun in the sequence genomes now that was that was the big hold up they got and the um that air dna just through the air, like the air filters, they can take the air filter, like they can run a big air filter wherever anywhere, like they're all over the world. Like there's air filters everywhere and you can sample the DNA in the air, what's breathing in the air out there through those filters. Like it, hundreds of different species identified off one filter. That's wild. Yeah, there's all kinds of angles you're looking at it now, like the E-DNA. I mean, there's, there's, there's, and the money is now, Melbourne's got

some people with backing that are, you know, willing to throw. Because like the catch-in study, like I know people get mad. Like Dave Polite's, I love the guy. And Scott Carpenter is like the nicest guy in the world. But she did not prove what she said she did. I mean, she probably, she does have real deed. But her study, the way she did it and the totality of it, she did not prove what she claimed she proved.

She just didn't. I'd read Dr. Haskell Hart's books, the best thing written on it. He breaks the whole thing down and explains. She could be right on some things. And my thing is if the, what we call paranormal now, if we get the researchers out there, they start seeing,

because a lot of people see the orbs. And we start seeing the orbs around Bigfoot activity. I don't know that they're necessarily always correlated or if they are at all. But I think they are at some levels sometimes. I think the woo factor will become from paranormal to pre-normal to normal. but they're not going to get in it if we're talking about portals and dog man they're the people with the money and the resources and the education and the backing and all that they're not coming aboard really but if you focus on just the i know i know big footster 3d at least some of the time that's what i's what i'm always been focused on yeah well that makes sense that makes sense uh and listen if if through all these efforts we make some real headway on the topic, I think that would be a win for everybody. What you'll find, though, is the true colors of people when that starts happening and you start making headway,

there's going to be people, I'm willing to bet there's going to be people that aren't happy with the results, so they'll try to poke holes in it and try to find reasons why it's not legitimate because- Well, that's science, but if it's real, it's real, they can prove it scientifically, then they can try to poke holes and they can have their opinions, but, if you got sequence genomes repeatable from different samples, well, there you go. I mean,

yeah. And unfortunately, Melba's study didn't prove that. I mean, some of, I mean, she, it's,

uh, I can say, read Haskell Hart's book, Dr. Haskell Hart, his DNA project, he goes through the whole thing, explains the whole thing. And she very well could,

she's, she's probably right about some of the stuff, but she just didn't prove it scientifically. But as far as Bigfoot and the paranormal, and normal and biological, you know, and multidimensional and all that. I can't stress enough.

Matt Pruitt is one of the smartest guys I've ever met. His book, The Sasquatch. Oh, what, Jesus, I just forgot. The phenomenal Sasquatch. The phenomenal Sasquatch, yeah, by Matt Pruitt. Read that book. Melbourne said it,

even Melbourne said this, and he has his own book, Legend Meets Science. He's making Legend Meets Science too right now. he's writing it in the documentary that's getting made with Doug from Monster Quest, Doug Heichick. But anyways, he just said he goes,

if you can get people to read one book on Bigfoot, this is absolutely the one. It just came out like two weeks ago. I'm almost done with it. It's really good. It breaks down all the different angles and, you know, mythos and legends and scientific data.

He lays the whole thing out. It's a great book. And if you're going to read one book, on Bigfoot, that's the one to start with. Yeah. If you're out there enough, you're going to probably have this. And if the woo factor is really real, and it is connected to Bigfoot or, you know, Bigfoot generated or whatever, that'll come out in the wash eventually.

Sure. Might take a little longer, but, I mean, I've had a couple of my weird things. And I know, dude, I know scientists in the field that have had weird things that they will not talk about publicly that they said, especially orbs, but also like kind of like a demon. thing they encountered one time, you know, and they just won't discuss it on, you know, and they'll say it in, strict confidentiality, but not a lot of them, but a couple of them, you know, it is, they're like, there, there, there does no good for me to talk about it. It's just going to make me look in the subject with bass.

They just, they said until we got to establish that they're a real biological, biologically based, real entity, like, you know, living, breathing thing out there. They said, then you can start going on those other areas. what you established that part. But starting off on the woo side is not going to get us too far. Yeah, see, so the discipline it would take for somebody like me to be like, well, it's not going to do any good, so I'm not going to talk about it. I'll be like, I can't do it.

You can talk. No, it's great that you talk about it. Well, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Like, I couldn't be in those shoes because I couldn't contain myself. I've got to talk about it. I got it. You know, like so I

Yeah, I'll bring it up. If it's part of the story, I'll talk about it, but I told I said, I'm going to lay off that, you know, just because like the people looking at the subject matter right now. And I'm not trying to brag. It's not because of me at all because of Cliff. A lot of the top scientists listen to our podcast. Wow.

Like that, you know, that are behind the scenes or people that are just interested, like they'll contract knowledge and it's like, oh, I heard this and that or, you know, they, you know, something on. Bigfoot and Beyond. That's all cliff. And Matt Pruitt, Matt Pruitt's our producer of our show.

He's got wrote the book. I mean, they're two of the best minds. They're definitely probably the top two lay minds in the field, you know, for scientific analysis, you know, non-qualified,

non-PHD type, but just, you know, smart guys that studied it for 20, 30 years extensively. Yeah, I, I'm looking at Matt's

Twitter page page and and I this is so like out of left field but Twitter suggests people that you might like

and the first one here is James Bobo Faye and you've been doing this so long that you're at is Squatcher like ain't nobody got the at of squatcher but you got it

because you've been doing it so long like you're the first one on Twitter that called yourself Squatcher that's pretty wild what was what's my last post uh let me click on it here uh you got 44.4,000 people following you. Your last post was, uh, June 26. You re, you retweeted. Uh, your last post, uh, I don't know. I guess your last retweet was June 26. Are you active on there? I was going to say if you, there's probably less in the last five years, probably less than like five posts.

Oh yeah, dude. Like, uh, the, so. The third one down is from October 2020. Yeah. I don't really get on there. You retweeted my boy Alexander Pedikov. That's cool. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I was in that movie.

Yeah, yeah, I see. I see you on the show art here. Man, listen, I think this was a blast talking with you. Yeah, Tony, you're the best, dude. I always loved talking to you. Dude, I didn't, I didn't expect to hold on you this long. I was like, dude, three, you gave people three hours. That's freaking, that's awesome, man.

Well, I don't do too many, I'm done doing Bigfoot podcast for the most part. I owe a few people. I just got nothing new to add. I'm waiting to see what these scientific results come out. There's, I'm not bringing any, I don't got anything new. So I'm just, you know, I'm not, but you got a whole different kind of, you got Bigfoot, you got paranormal. You got people that don't really know who I am or heard my stories yet.

So I was thinking, lots of new audience. Yeah. It's part of it. Yeah, I agree. I think there's a lot of people that tune in because they've heard me on other people's podcast talking about some weird, funky stuff, and they have no idea about the Bigfoot stuff until they come here. And then I'm like, hey, I got a friend.

His name's Wes. He has a show called Sasquatch Chronicles. You probably should check them out. They haven't heard of Wes? No, like, some people haven't. And that's, like, back in the day when I first started, like, everybody had heard Wes, you know, but I guess, you know, I'm getting so diverse in my topics that not everybody's into Bigfoot, I guess. I don't know. Right. Yeah. I mean, like you, Wes helped us. I mean, West is such a good. I mean, Wes helped us so much. I mean, we'd still be, I mean, we'd be years behind of where we're at now if it wasn't for Wes. Yeah. He's such a good dude. Yep. I agree.

He's my boy. I heard you. You sling us praise this. I'm not saying anything new, but I'm just concurring with everything you've said over the years. Yeah. Yeah. No, I,

he's, he's always treated me like a brother. He's always treated me well. And, you know, like there's not a whole lot of people that I, like I, let's put this way.

There's, there's, I've had, I've had things come up my, you know, across my path over the years. And I'll just put this way. There is not,

not a whole lot of people that I'll stick my neck on the line for in this podcast, whatever world we're in, this content creator stuff. Wes is one of those guys. I'll I will stick my neck on the line for them and

I would probably step in and say some things to defend him if I heard people saying certain things about them. Oh, dude, very rarely I heard people kind of bad about it and like, you know, old rumors and stuff like that. And I was good, dude, you're barking up the wrong truth. You couldn't be further from the truth.

I've met West just once. I've met him in person, you know, hung out with him. The guy is generous with his time, with his knowledge, with his contacts. I mean,

he's just, he's just a very giving, generous, kind-hearted person. And I, I learned that early on. And I, between him,

do you know Sam Tripoli, by the way? No. He's a podcast called Tinfoil Hat podcast. He's friends with Rogan. I know you and Rogan are besties, but so I, Sam is very much like that, where Sam is very generous. He, he is willing to help.

And between Sam and Wes, I've, I made a decision that I was going to pay it forward like those guys, those guys do. So I don't, I don't have tons of time to sit down and, you know, I get emails from people saying, you know, asking for almost mentorship when it comes to podcast. I don't have time for that. But when I can, especially if it's in conversation and we're already talking, I like helping people where I can. I like giving people shoutouts. And, you know, because I just believe that the more this community has success, the more we all succeed together. A rising tide raises all ships, they say. And in a selfish.

sense, I don't want to be the guy that tries closing himself off from everybody else, hoarding my listeners and trying not to let my listeners know about any other show. Because, man, in all honesty, you know, there's going to be shows that pop up over time that, you know, triple the size of my show. And I'm going to wish that I was friends with them, you know? And so it's, it's beneficial for everybody to be kind to one another and just be helpful. And, um, I learned that from those two guys. For me, I can't really offer to think because Pruitt handles everything.

I just talk once a week. Well, you show up, you talk, you do your job, and you go home. I mean, that's, that's, I'm kind of in a similar situation where now my brother is handling the production of the show and all that stuff. And I just kind of, I do my recordings, I talk, and I have the,

I have the fun part of the job now. And he handles all the audio production and putting the shows together. and he basically puts the final product in a drop box, and I download it and upload it to the service providers and all that stuff because I don't quite want to release that responsibility yet. I want to be able to put in the description type up what I want to say about the episode and things like that.

But yeah, he's been a godsend for me. I'm so tech-tarded. I couldn't do anything you just said. I can offer no advice to feel. Just like, get yourself a great producer and treat them well. Right, exactly. Because they're hard to come by. Mine's homegrown.

When I started the podcast, he was 20 when I started the podcast. And early on, I would have him come down and just hang out with me during, you know, doing live shows and things like that. And then I started integrating him into producing one of the other podcasts we were doing. And here we are now. He moved to Tennessee. He works for me. And he handles all that fun. Well, it used to be fun for me.

It's not so much fun anymore. That's why I had to get somebody else on it. I mean, it's exhausting. I mean, doing it and putting all the time into the production. And, you know, it's very time consuming. Just even export. Like, for instance, this is a three hour and 15 minute recording we're working on here. Like, this is going to take probably at least an hour to export.

That's a lot of time to take up trying to watch a computer screen so that you can just move on to the next phase of getting a show done, you know? So it's been really good to have him around. And I told him when I hired him, I said, listen, I don't care. I'm not the guy that focuses on how many hours you work. I'm paying you a salary. I'm not paying you by hour. And I said, if you get your job done in two hours, then it's two hours. then it's two hours.

I'm good with that. Go live your life. If it takes 16 hours to get the job done, though, that's what it takes. I said, I don't really care about how long you work. I just want the job done. So if you can get it done in two hours,

cool. But I also need you to be willing to sacrifice a 16-hour day if you need it. So he's been awesome. Yeah. That's like on the TV shows, we'd have long days. And the crew would come back.

They literally would have 18, 20-hour days every day. It was like, they had to do all that uploading and hot sheets and charging batteries and coming up with next day schedule and I was like, God, those guys work so much. It's a lot of work. Like, people think that this is like, like the entertainment side of things is just so, you know, you just talk and whatever. There's a ton of work behind the scenes, a ton.

Yeah. Yeah. But anyways, I burned up your time here. No, he didn't burn my time up, man. I'm good. But yeah, let me, let me, I'm going to wind the show down. I appreciate everybody tuning in,

hanging out with me and Bobo. Hopefully people heard things today that they didn't know about you. Hopefully they learned some things. They heard some stories. They're like, dang, I didn't know that. That was kind of my goal sitting down.

I just kind of wanted to open up and start, you know, in one direction and just let it kind of evolve. And I think that's what we did for the last three hours. So thanks everybody for tuning in. and if you haven't know, if you don't know already, I am dropping our second film August 19th. That's August 19th, 2023. It's going to be called The Shape of Shadows,

and it's going to be awesome. So be on the lookout for that. You'll be watching it on the website, doeshape of shadows.com. That's where you can purchase it. We are not releasing through Amazon, Tube, Apple, or any other platform until we release through ourselves.

first because we have spent a lot of time over on this end building up an audience base and we feel like Amazon shouldn't be hoarding in on that. So we're going to be doing self-releasing initially and then we'll move to Amazon, Tube, Apple and all that stuff in time. But right now, we're just going to release through the shape of shadows.com. Soon you'll be seeing the ability to purchase that film on there. Stay tuned for that. I'll let you guys know more details when I have them. But until next week, stay safe, take care, and remember the truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off. Bye.