The Confessionals - 576: Unearthing Giant Skeletons and Hidden Treasures

Episode Date: August 29, 2023

In Episode 576: Unearthing Giant Skeletons and Hidden Treasures, we embark on a captivating journey with Glenn, a man whose life has been marked by a series of mysterious and occasionally eerie encounters. Glenn's narrative unfolds from his early experiences with extraterrestrial beings referred to as "grays" during childhood abductions in Lexington, Kentucky, to a mind-boggling UFO sighting during a Boy Scout camping expedition. His story is a rollercoaster ride through the realm of the unexplained. We discuss his journey into magic and meditation, as well as his family's unsettling encounters with cattle mutilations on a farm situated between two Air Force bases. Yet, Glenn's narrative stretches beyond the paranormal, shedding light on his passion for music and art, which ultimately led him to Hollywood, where he contributed to some of the most iconic songs of the 20th century.Glenn is an archaeologist as well, and he shares with us stories of his excavation of an eight-foot-tall skeleton on Indian Fort Mountain in Kentucky. The implications of such a discovery are nothing short of astonishing, prompting us to explore the elusive world of colossal skeletons concealed within the Ohio Valley and raising questions about the potential involvement of the Smithsonian in suppressing these revelations. Given his background in archaeology, it's only natural that Glenn is captivated by the allure of treasure hunting. He engages in a thought-provoking conversation with us regarding the prospect of uncovering concealed treasures, including silver and gold mines intertwined with legends of pirates, hidden Civil War caches, and the rich tapestry of Native American artifacts and history that he passionately shares. As of recently, Glenn stumbled upon unexpected treasures, including a magnificent old-growth cedar tree which he believes holds valuable items. His narratives transport us into a realm full of concealed secrets and historical intrigue, all against the backdrop of his captivating local area in Kentucky, steeped in historical artifacts.The Confessionals Members App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZBecome a member for AD FREE listening and EXTRA shows: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinGlenn’s YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@glennquiggins5604Come Meet Tony:LIVE SHOW in Gatlinburg, TN!Tickets: https://bit.ly/3IC4IkxWatch Expedition Dogman: https://bit.ly/3CE6Kg0SPONSORSThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give onlinetherapy a try at betterhelp.com/yup and get on your way to being your best self.GET Private Internet Access: piavpn.com/confessionalsGET EMP Shield: empshield.com Coupon Code: "tony" for $50 off every item you purchase! Listen to this episode for more information! Link: bit.ly/3YaMD1NGET SIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsGET Hello Fresh: hellofresh.com/confessionals60 Promo Code: "confessionals50" for 50% off plus the first box ships for free!!!Get Emergency Food Supplies: www.preparewiththeconfessionals.comGET FIRSTLEAF: tryfirstleaf.com/confessionalsCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] to the Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/the-newsletterMAILING ADDRESS: Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIDiscord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelAre you a military veteran struggling with thoughts of suicide?Contact Watchman Readiness Corps for REAL help. A veteran-run organization that is designed to help through hands-on survival training.Website: wrc.vetEmail: [e-mail]: [phone]Instagram: wrc_survivalFacebook: colbywrcvetOUTRO MUSICVanTesla - Head In The CloudsYouTube | Apple Music | Spotify

Merkel Media This was all circulating around the base That a giant had been killed But no one was supposed to talk about it I saw three long, bony fingers Reach up underneath the door Curl up to grab it and then disappear

When he came over to me Dude he slithered over to me And this giant comes out of the cave And they're all frozen And he starts running and firing at this giant. Well, the giant moves. He's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast. It spears, Dan, holds him up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face. They basically decapitated. And I look over, and there are two small brush, and it couldn't move

because I know I'm seeing a monster. Welcome to the show, everybody, you're listening to the Confessionals podcast. I'm your host, Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here. If you have a crazy, wild experience, you want to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is Contact at the Confessionalspodcast.com. That's Contact at the confessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the contact section, and you can reach me that way as well. Either way it works for me, just get a hold of me. If you want more bonus episodes every week, every Thursday we drop member shows for members only to the website.

With the website membership, you will get access to the app, which has all the content on it, Plus the content is also on the website. You get the Tuesday shows ad free and you get access to overtime episodes. Today might be an overtime episode or it just might be a super long episode or it might be a three-section episode where we do a public show, an overtime and a member show because we have an in studio guest today and he brings, well, he packs a punch and he has a lot of different experiences. He is one of those guys that has lived many lives, literally, and we'll get into it. But I want to let you guys know before we get into this conversation with our in-studio guest today, this episode is presented by Broken Branch. That's Broken Branch Designs LLC.com. This is an apparel company. They sell a bunch of cool stuff, all topical mothman, Bigfoot, you know, crackens, all that stuff,

t-shirts, blankets, mugs, all that stuff. And they met me at the Smoky Mountain Bigfoot conference. and they gave me a free t-shirt, which I'm sporting right now at the time of this recording. If you're on YouTube, you could probably see the t-shirt right now in the studio. It is a sweet t-shirt, and I just wanted to give them love because it feels really good on my skin, and I just wanted to give them a shout-out. So Broken Branch, they don't know I'm doing this, but I'm doing it. Broken Branch Designs LLC.com. Get your t-shirts and all your cool stuff there today.

All right, we got Glenn here in studio, Glenn, man. What is going on? Hey, Tony. It's great to be here, man. Dude, so we were just talking before we hit record. And like, all right, so you're a retired professional musician. Let me just give it to the people this way. You're a retired professional musician, archaeologist, historian, treasure hunter,

ordained minister, and you've had encounters with orbs, UFOs, Bigfoot, mantis, abductions, possibly a skin walker. in the magical cave in Kentucky. You're from Kentucky. You live about two and a half hours for me. And you grew up there and you have a lot of experiences from the Daniel Boone. You've been exploring a cave your entire life that is absolutely huge. It goes back at least a mile and a half, you said. Yes. There's a lot of magical things about this cave. And you've invited us to come up and check it out. You've found silver mines. You said you have a chunk of silver somewhere here today that you've uncovered.

And so it's just like, you are literally a man of many lives. But when I say retired professional musician, now people that email is that, you know, I have a band or, you know, I'm a retired musician and they toured on, you know, and they opened for bands kind of thing. You, I think the perspective really was set for me just a few minutes before we hit record because, and I'm going to let you tell, but because I don't even know the name of the song. It's one of those songs where you sing it to yourself, but you don't know the name of it. What's the name of the song? I don't really like to brag about my...

I know you don't, but I just... Because I just got to tell people, like, you were a drummer, and you play many different instruments, but you were a drummer for a legendary song. It was a Rockwell song, yeah. Yeah, and I... All right, we'll just leave it that then. We'll just leave it that, because I, you know, but maybe I'll play it as the outro or something. I don't own the rights to that. Right, there you go. But I was just like, holy crap.

So, yeah, we're going to get into a lot of different stuff today. And it's one of those things where we were kind of game playing beforehand. And I wasn't sure what direction we were going to go to start. I wasn't sure if we're going to do it by categorize it by, you know, different topics or what. But you suggested that we do chronological. So we're going to do chronological. And we're going to start off in your. childhood. And it's probably best this way because it's going to let people see how it all kind of

unfolded for you as your life went on. But you started out in Kentucky as a kid and the weird starts pretty much right away in your life. Correct. And it just kind of carries throughout your life. And what I find interesting is that you've traveled the world. Yeah. I mean, you've lived in the Caribbean, you've explored Mayan ruins. You've done all these different things. And you wound up coming right back home, you know. And now you're in Kentucky again. And we were talking last night at dinner. And I think you said that you didn't really plan on coming back to Kentucky.

It wasn't something that was in the cards and it just happened. Yeah. And it's interesting because it kind of made me sit back in the moment and think, well, I ever wind up going back to Pennsylvania? And I'm like, I don't think so. I'm not going back. I love it here. I think you got a good situation.

Yeah, I'm not really, well, you thought you had a good situation going in the Caribbean, you know? I did, yeah. So you just never know, I guess. So it's important to never say never, I guess, but I'm not planning on it. So I'm going to, we're going to start off there, man. And I'm going to let it hand it over to you. And let's start off in early childhood. You were born in Kentucky.

And we're going to start off, I guess, with the abduction stuff, because that kind of kicks it off. And it might have a lot to do with how the direction of your life. life went. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, so wherever you want to start, the age and what was going on, what was your memories, what happened? Sure. I was five years old. I was living in Lexington, Kentucky. I was adopted. My birth mother was Albanian, and I don't really know anything about my birth father from a long line of musicians, masons, on both sides of the family. But yeah, I was five years old and living in Lexington, and at night these grays would come to my window, wake me up, and I would be scared to death, be looking at me, and somehow they would get me out,

and the next thing I would know, I'm on a craft somewhere. they would always return me to my front yard outside. And there was a neighbor that lived two doors down. She was my age also. She would be there with me. It was the two of us. And we would just be there standing in the front yard, like in our pajamas. How did we get out here, you know?

Go back in the house. I would tell my parents, I was scared to death. My father just thought I was having nightmares. It would send me back to my house. room and this continued the whole time we lived in this house which was five six two years continually you know and i don't remember exactly what happened on these abductions i know there was some kind of testing going on some kind of medical testing because i developed an unnatural fear of doctors and dentist after that.

It was... Really? Yeah. Just the bright lights and the... And all that. I was just terrified. So that was my first experiences with... And they were grays.

So they would come through... How would they come to you through the house or the window, as you said? The window, yeah. The window. My bed was right by the window and I could just look a few feet away and big window. And you would see them. Yeah. And then next thing you know, I'm gone.

You're gone. Yeah. And when you said they would return you, you'd be in the front lawn and the neighbor girl was there too? Yeah. Same situation. Just standing there, pajamas. Yeah. Both of us just, how did we get here?

Yeah. That's interesting. I know, I want to say, I want to say, man, I can't remember which guest it was. I think his name is Dave Emmons. I had a guest in the show that had similar experiences, with the idea of being abducted with, oh, you know what, he actually was abducted and then ran into somebody he had seen during his abduction later in life, so he recognized them.

But there was also people here not too long ago, Shelley and J.R., and this was a member's episode. I think it called it the Predator Returns. And his wife talks about seeing, kids, people being walked into a craft all chained like slaves by the neck kind of thing.

What's interesting, because I think sometimes she even probably struggles with did I dream this or was this real? There's very real physical things that she recalls from these moments that it's hard to imagine she dreamt the physical feelings that she had and stuff. but what's interesting is not long ago, and I still haven't checked out the link,

but I was driving home from the office one night, and there's a podcast, or it's a big, huge show, Sean Ryan. I don't know if you've heard of him. He's really been diving into some of the weird stuff, which... Just talking about the military guy that saw the craft in the jungle, where they were taken... Human trafficking.

Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't watch the clip. I just, like, I was, I was backing into my driveway and you know how they do like those bumpers in the beginning to show you what's coming. I saw that and I just sent it to JR and I said, dude, you need to check this out. I watched that. So was it, was it what it seemed like that he was talking about like people?

It's like a black ops military, really advanced hardware and stuff. No insignias, no identifiers. They were threatened to be killed multiple times. and then they witnessed this craft hovering over like a granite slab, and they witnessed these big like shipping containers that had ventilation and stuff on them, and they were supposedly loading. It was during a natural disaster, and people disappear in a natural disaster. Haiti.

Yeah. That was happening in Haiti after the earthquakes. The child abduction is going on there. Yeah. So anyways, I say all that because it just, that stuff reminds me of your experience here. You guys were returned, but theoretically all those, well, I don't want to say that. I don't know. Have you heard of, I think it's called the Gate Program?

Yeah, we just did an episode on it. I don't really know that much about it. I just, somebody mentioned it to me the other day. Why they mentioned it to you? I think because my dad and all my the men in my family were mason's. This is you're adopted or biological? Adopted and biological. Interesting.

Yeah. And they said there were some, they believe there was some connection. So, I mean, I would actually like to explore your thoughts on Masons then. But I would say, I don't know about that. There's a lot of people who believe that the gate program, there's segments of the gate program that are nefarious and are sub-programs for MK Ultra. I just had a lady on who was part of the gate program and she was recalling some weird things. And she wasn't trying to make any more of it than what it was.

But, you know, she recalled like one time her and these other kids had to go to a museum at the, at night. and sleep there next to a mummy. Oh, wow. And it seemed very ritualistic, you know? And but then there's other people like a guy emailed me after he heard that. And he said he was part of the gay program and he doesn't remember anything weird about it. And it seems like because the gay program is, from what I understand, it's still operating today. And it's supposed to be for gifted kids.

They identify kids who are very gifted and, you know, they, you know, further education kind of thing. And I think there are people who have experiences that are just, you know, normal. I think mine was normal. I mean. So you were in the gate program? Gifted and talented. You know, that's what they called it. They didn't call it the gate program.

And they recognized that I was gifted as an artist, like a graphic artist. And they sent me to, I mentioned I was going from elementary school and junior high to college classes later in the day. taking college art classes with college kids, you know, and I was 11, 12, 13. So I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but they labeled me a child prodigy, and that seemed to be the way my life was headed. I mean, yeah, I mean, somebody labeling you a child prodigy wouldn't surprise me just by your life experience. I mean, your life kind of went in a direction.

It's like, yeah, he was destined for some really amazing, cool things, a really cool life. I mean, on a very fundamental level, would you look at your life and be like, yeah, I lived a good life. Oh, yeah. I would hope you'd say yes. I would hope you say yes. I'm very excited that I'm meeting you and getting to know you because there's simple things we were discussing last night at dinner that you invited us up to the property about. And I'm just like, man, like we were talking about treasure hunting last night. And to me, obviously, yeah, finding a treasure will be amazing.

But living in the moment, the time you spend treasure hunting to me is the treasure. It is. The hunt is the treasure. It is. Most people fantasize about treasure hunting. They watch it on TV, but they never put the boots on the ground and go do it. It's true. And so just the fact of you doing that, it's amazing.

So the masons. Now, I know there's a lot of conspiracy theories about the masons and things like that. And I'm not a Mason, a Stunod. Is that the wrong word? Fishanada. Stunat is the opposite direction I was trying to go with. I am a stuonad. That's funny.

But my mind was going ahead of me because I was thinking, as I was talking, I was thinking Joel would be the guy to talk to because he is a Mason too. Yeah. And he actually became a Mason because he wanted to be nefarious. But I would say, I lay that groundwork because I'm not the guy that's going to go deep on masons and because I don't know. I'm not either. But what are your thoughts on it?

The fact that your biological father was a mason, your adopted father was a mason, have you had any experiences with either one? You said you didn't remember the biological father, believe. Yeah, I never met him. Never met him. But have you had any experiences that would make you scratch your head with the idea of the Mason angle at all? Because you brought it up, so I just was sure. Yeah, not really other than my dad was, my adopted father was quite nefarious.

I mean. Was he? Yeah. Yeah, I think, and I think, I mean, you could just say basically he was an evil person. I mean, from my earliest memories are being physically beat by him. Okay. Yeah. Which continued, you know, so bad that by the time I was, we'd get so bad that I would, at night, at night,

I would climb up the highest tree I could find and wait until he came home and went to bed. And then my mom would come out and say, okay, you can come down. It's safe. Really? After he'd try to get me down sometimes. So he knew you were out there. Yeah. And so then I'd come in and go to bed, you know, but I was diagnosed with PTSD because of that and like 12 years old or something. So he was not a nice person, you know.

And the things he did in his job to, I think, had something to do with the energy that was following him around. What was his job? He was a civil engineer. And what he did was he designed and built most of the man-made lakes in Kentucky. So he'd be project coordinator, project engineer on him. But most of these lakes, like especially where I live, like five minutes away, there's a lake below a Native American site,

and they moved a whole cemetery of, like, just regular people, and then they just flooded lots of Native American graves, lots of Civil War graves, just desecrated, you know. And he would steal artifacts and bring them home, and it was just a bad thing. bad energy. He would take me on these job sites when I was a little kid and, you know, just watch them flooding these Native American burial grounds and burial mounds just carelessly. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So, so nothing, like, it wasn't like he was like, like, working in it,

like, because I forgot to mention this. Like, you, you, you actually worked in a deep underground military base at one time, too. So, uh, interesting. We'll hit on that at some point today. Well, I know he designed all of the lakes in most of the military bases around Kentucky, especially that one. Really? Yeah, I don't know how deep into it he was. I just know he was not a nice person. Gotcha. Where you live now, is that where you grew up?

No. Okay. How far away is it that you grew up from where you live now? So I grew up in Lexington. Okay. And I'm about an hour from there maybe now in the mountains. Yeah, you're in the Danubeon. Yeah.

We haven't even talked about it last night a little bit. Dogman, and you called him puppy boy. You're like, it's a werewolf. You didn't really like the name dog man. But have you heard growing up in Kentucky any of these stories of the werewolf? I know we talked about it last night, but I don't know if you want to talk about that now or if you want to talk about it later. We can talk about it now if you want.

I don't want to get too far off track of our chronological order and stuff. But yeah, if we want to hit on it a little bit right now, because I just hit, I just, ADHD, my mind goes all in place. And when I said to Daniel Boone, I was like, I went on an expedition there once, dogman. And I was like, why don't you tell your stuff? My train of thought goes. But you heard, I know you've heard some of these stories. Yeah, yeah.

We were talking about the Brenton's story that I heard that happened just a few miles from me in the next county over, which I'm pretty much on the county line right there in the Daniel Boone. I tell you what happened there if you want. Yeah, go for it. Okay, so evidently there's a guy that lived who's a Vietnam vet, totally self-sufficient, off-the-grid guy, lived out in the middle of the woods in a cabin and I believe it was Lee County or Clay County,

one of the ones at Borders where I live. And he was such a good hunter and, you know, if he was going to kill two deer, he would take two bullets. He never missed. You know, excellent shot. So one night he was sitting out on his porch and at dusk

and he saw a figure come out of the woods and just stand there on the edge and he thought it was a person at first and warned him. I'm armed. You need to go back the way you came or I'm going to shoot. Steps a little closer and he warned again, this is your last warning. If you don't leave, I'm going to shoot.

And then it came out of the shadows and rushed him and it was a dogman, werewolf. Poppy boy. Yeah. Yeah. It had a poodle head. with little ribbons in it. No, so it, evidently, it came towards him, so he shot it a couple of times in the chest. And it went retreated into the woods.

He knew he didn't kill it, though. So he was worried about this, so he went to his buddy's house that lived close by and talked to him and his nephew and told him, look, this is what happened to me. I'm going to go back home. I'm scared. I'll be honest. I'm scared, but I'm going to go back home.

And if something happens, you know what happened to me. So they tried to get in to stay the night with them. And he said, no, I'm not going to let it chase me off. I'm going back home, stay on my ground. So about, I think it was like two in the morning, they get a call from this guy. And he's screaming over the phone that it's back and is trying to get in his door. and they can hear it smash the door, they hear the guy screaming,

and then the line goes dead. So they immediately jump and get in their truck and they drive out to this guy's property. But by the time they get there, there's already law enforcement there, sheriffs, state police, some FBI-looking guys. And he knows the sheriff,

so he asks him, you know, what's going on? And he's like, you know, all we found was his foot, just ripped off, and there's blood everywhere. The door's been smashed in, splintered. And all he found was the guy's foot. So he keeps trying to question the sheriff, and the sheriff's like, look, I can't really tell you what's going on now

because we've got these government guys here. But if you go home, you know, I'll get with you later and tell you exactly what's going on. So as they were standing there talking, they looked down and saw tracks in the dirt. And the nephew kind of, nudged his uncle and looked, look down. And when they did, the FBI looking guys just took his foot and smoothed out the tracks,

made him disappear and told him it was time for them to leave. So they left. Later, he got in touch with his sheriff friend and his sheriff friend wouldn't tell him anything. That was the last, you know. Some friend he is. Yeah. I guess they threatened him, evidently. Yeah.

But they were there just like that, you know, before they could even get there. To me, that screams tracking. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. Like, I think, so I think these creatures come from many different places. I think that some of them are, are, have been here and they're ancient. I think some of them are coming from other realms. I think that some of them are created in labs.

The ones created in labs are being tracked. Yeah. Maybe we have technology that can track when portals open and they're on it, you know, which we'll talk about because you have a picture of a portal opening up on your property. I've seen it. It's literally probably one of the most impressive portal pictures I've been given because the first image I saw was up close and it looks nighttime. Yeah.

And then the second image I saw was it not zoomed in. and is actually a dusk. Yeah. And it's daylight. Yeah. And you see this green portal opening up. And you saw with your naked eye, you took a picture of it, and I'm just like, holy crap. But anyways, yeah, so I think that maybe they have technology that they can see the energy changes and they know certain signatures on the screen.

Like, that is what we were looking for. Go now. Because something's going to happen and we need to be there to clean it up if something happens bad. Yeah. But we hear about that stuff all the time, you know. And that's very close to this military base that you worked at? Just, yeah, like five-minute chopper flight or something. I'm in trip.

We'll get into this too. Because there is, I had an episode, I think it was 444, 444. I called it the Kentucky UFO crash cover-up or something like that. And I think it's in Pikesville. Pikeville? Pikeville. Pikeville. Is that the train?

Yeah, the train. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I heard about that. Yeah, and that's, if I, if,

I remember looking into it and that incident was south of, I think a rumored deep underground military base or a military base. Is that, is that matching up

with the one you worked at or no? It would be, from there, it would be northeast. Okay. Not too far. Okay, got you.

Probably the closest base. Okay. Yeah. Anyways, before we move forward, you shared a second one where you were talking to your neighbor who just relate some puppy boy content to you. Yeah. So he told me about, I guess back in the 20s on this same creek below my house where the portal and other stuff is happening. a family, a whole family was killed, and the only survivor was a little boy. They found him a few days later wandering up out of the woods.

He said his whole family had been killed by a werewolf or a wolf man. And the family was just gone. Like there's no trace of them? No trace. Yeah. Wow. And just him left, a little boy, you know, maybe. Eight or nine.

Hmm. You know, hearing that story, it makes you wonder what they could have found if they had the technology we have today. You know, that's back in the 20s. Right, yeah. You know, and even, like, they probably wouldn't even know to look for hair, you know. As far as human hair, I mean. Yeah. Like, looking, because what are you going to even do with the human hair?

There's no DNA testing back then, you know. And they probably chalked it up to a wolf or a wild cat or. Yeah. A wild cat or something. Yeah, and the kid's interpretation after seeing his whole family devoured, which, you know, it doesn't, fresh image in my mind, it doesn't surprise me that a werewolf, a dog man could devour people like that because, one, it might have been more than one. Right.

But, you know, I got these pigs that I've seen them devoured things. I'm like, holy crap. Just the other day I had to put down a chick and she was sick. And so it's a beautiful thing is we then feed the chicken to the pigs, which, you know, it's just a cycle of life. It's beautiful. And the pigs I had just fed them before that. And so they weren't trying to bother with the chicken jack was at my house. And he saw it. Because I was like, watch this. Because I wanted to show them how they just, they go at it. And they sniffed her. And then they just went back to the other food. And I was like, well, I guess they're not going to eat this. And then maybe he went home. And like 30 minutes later, I went outside, nowhere to be seen. I was just like, wow. No trace. No feathers, nothing. They ate it all.

And so it doesn't surprise me that something that's so gigantic, especially if there's more than one, how they could just devour a body like that. And these are legends that are rich in the Daniel Boone all over it. All over. And these are ancient areas and the caves in these areas hold their own stories. So let's get back on track to you. You had these abduction experiences.

Now, how often was this happening for you? It seemed like weekly. Really? Yeah. Was it the same thing every week? Same thing. And they would show up at my window at night looking at me. I was scared to death.

But I couldn't, the thing is I couldn't get up and run away. I like to go tell my parents or go my parents for it. You were paralyzed? It wasn't paralyzed. I could sit up and look at them and stuff, but I just had no, it was like I didn't have any will, really. They just, you know, they just took me. There's nothing I could do about it. And, yeah, it was probably weekly and it terrified me.

And there would be nights, you know, I would just freak out and cry because I didn't want to go sleep in my room, you know. Mm-hmm. But it didn't matter. You know, dad would throw me in there. Yeah. Yeah. Deals it. And your mom, did she just think you were having bad dreams, like you said?

She was working nights. Okay. So she wasn't even at home. Yeah. So when your dad would come home, you're hiding in a tree. She'd come out and say you can come in and go to bed, and then she'd leave and go to work. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. That's terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She said there'd be many times when she was. would wake up, hear me, and I'd be up running around the house in my sleep, thinking my dad was chasing me or somebody was chasing me, you know. Wow. Okay. So these abductions are

happening from, it's five? Yeah. So when? It would have been probably seven. Okay. When we moved to another place in Lexington. And they stopped? They stopped. So far as I know, I never had anything else happen until, I guess it was probably third grade. And then I was on a Cub Scout camping trip down by the Kentucky River. And there was a whole troop of Cub Scouts, a few adults, you know. And in the middle of the night, I woke up and looked out my tent. and I saw the drawing I sent you, that craft probably 30 feet, 40 feet, big landing, all the lights going. And other kids started getting up and coming out of their tents and we're all watching it.

And we actually just started walking out towards it. And it came down and hovered about 10, 15 feet off the ground and released about 10, 15 feet off the ground and released, But we waited until we all got up like kind of under it. You were that close to it? Yeah. And it released some kind of white mist that just completely bathed as to where you couldn't see anything. And that was the last thing we remembered until the next morning. And I woke up and I was like, hey, do you guys remember seeing the, yeah, yeah, I remember.

But that was all We didn't remember what happened after the The mist covered us Did you talk to the counselors about it The guys, the adults that were with these? Yeah They didn't believe us No, not at all

Did the other kid, so you And it wasn't all of us It was just a few of us You know, like maybe 15 of us Maybe half of us And what, the others just kept sleeping? Yeah Was there a noise that came with this

That woke you guys up? No, no noise So some of you just instinctually woke up I just woke up. Like it was calling you? Yeah. Just woke up and started looking out the tent like, you know, for it. Wow.

Yeah. And you all walked to the point that you're underneath it. Yeah. And it's only 10 or 15 feet above us hovering with the lights going completely silent. And you said you were seven-ish? Yeah. Third grade. Third grade.

Yeah. Whatever age that is. All right. So I'm not expecting you to remember everything, but do you remember what was going through your mind as you were approaching this? thing? Were you like consciously thinking, why am I walking towards this? It obviously weren't that scared. I wasn't scared. I was amazed. It was beautiful. That's what I was thinking. Like, what is this? This is beautiful. I've never seen, you know, never seen anything like this. I didn't know I'd think about UFOs or whatever. This was, you know,

flying solstores. It was before I had that knowledge at all. It wasn't until years later when I saw close encounters of the third kind in the theater and I was like, oh, that's what happened to us. What do you think that is? What do you think? There's something about Hollywood.

Jacques Valet worked on, was the creative director for that movie. He was the UFO researcher. That makes sense. Like Project Blue Book and stuff. Yeah. interesting there's something

that Hollywood tells reality through fiction yeah and we see that a lot

yeah and so you having that experience where a light ball goes and you're like oh

it's interesting the other kids that experience that they they don't remember going to back to bed

like you did were you all just kind of like, like what was the after effect of this? Were you, was it something that you couldn't let go and you kept on thinking about and were they the same way? Or what? I mean, have you kept in touch with any of those kids as you grew up?

No. No? No. And I don't, soon after that, I left the Cups Couts too. Because of that? Yeah. Really? Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. So we never talked about it other than, you know, the next morning. And I don't know what happened to it. And like I said, I didn't even really remember it. I remembered it, but I didn't know what it was. You know, I just thought it was cool, but I didn't know what it was until I saw that movie. And then I was like, oh, okay, I understand now.

Did you connect that to your five to seven-year-old age experiences in? When the little, when they're on the mountain and the little door opens and the little gray walks out or whatever, it was like, yeah, it was an intense flashbite. Yeah. Oh, that's the little guy. Mm-hmm. Because, I mean, that, I mean, if you're in third grade, I'm thinking that was probably like two or three years prior at that point then. If you were in third grade and it stopped when you were seven, yeah.

You're probably, what, seven years old in first grade, something like that. Yeah. Wow. So, like from. Pretty fresh in your mind. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Wow. So, um, that happens. You connect the dots. You have this wild UFO experience where you're that, I mean, I don't want to move out this too fast here. So it's 10 to 15 feet above you. Yeah.

How big is this thing? Probably 30 feet, I would say across. Okay. Like a diameter? Yeah. Okay. And it's perfectly round. Yeah.

Okay. And I say that because I saw the picture. You saw the picture. Yeah. As best as I could remember, that's what it looked like, and it had the lights all around it. No sounds. No sound. Okay.

And I don't know what that mist was. You know, I've kind of looked into it. Sleeping gas. Some people have said that, a nest, you know, to put you to sleep, or it could be some kind of antibacterial type thing where we might have something that could hurt them, you know, bacteria-wise. I don't know. Almost like when you walk through one of those little pop-up tunnels that spray you because of COVID stuff. Remember those?

Yeah. Wow. That's wild. And so how do you move on from that? I mean, so you quit Boy Scouts. You start just going through childhood. Yeah. And it seems like these things are just setting the stage for your life.

Yeah. And what I find so interesting is that like your life is not just... paranormal weird experiences like there I it's like you're there's something

and I'm not trying to blow your head up and because I know you're you try to be humble right but there's there's something special about you like most people can't say they were a professional musician

for a career starting at 12 which we can get into but the big ass days. Yeah, exactly. But then on top of that, I mean, all the other experiences you've had, archaeology, treasure hunting, working in a dumb, the paranormal experiences, finding the cave, the big foot outside the cave. Like, it's just, there's something about you that I feel like, like certain people have these markers on their life. And to me, it seems like you have a very

unique marker on your life? It opened my eyes, and it made me look for, it made me a seeker. Like, right after that, I found a book on Buddhism. Somebody had thrown out in their trash. There was some LPs. So I got the LPs, which one of them was Native American Apache, traditional Apache songs, which was awesome.

But then the book on Buddhism, and then from there I went to Taoism, and I was already raised of Christians, so I had that background. But it made me a seeker. You know, I wanted to know everything. You know, so I started studying religions and how at a young age, you know, I was, you know, third, fourth grade and my room burning incense and meditating. And I just found that, you know, it opened me up for a lot of experiences.

it opened me up to where I could see things coming, 10, 15, 20 years down the road. And it made me realize that, you know, there's a magical part of your life where if you put your mind to it, you can do anything, really, as long as you are open to see in the past and the doors when they open. And it helped me with that.

That's why my music career, I think, was so prolific. Yeah. Wow. Okay, so third grade, just stumbled across a UFO, decided to walk up to it with a bunch of kids. You leave the Boy Scouts because of it.

Where do you go from here? I mean, you started studying the religions and things like that. What's the next thing that kind of pops out in your mind as to what you, that isn't normal? That's for that way. Well, about the same time, I got interested in music. I started playing the drums. And I also got interested in art.

And they pulled me out of elementary school and wanted me to go take classes, college classes for art. So I did that after school for a couple of years. so it exposed me to college at a very young age yeah those ideas you know

and all the knowledge that's there you know I would take my class and then I would go to the library and spend you know hour or two just reading whatever I could read you know

got me interested in magic and that at a young age of course religion. Did you practice magic? Yeah, I did. It works. I mean, there's, you know, there's a lot of positive you can do with it, but there's also a lot of negative, you know, as you know, and sometimes what you think, your intention might be positive.

But time has a way of shifting things around where what you think, you know, you had good intentions and it was, you thought it was positive. but the reality is a lot of times it comes around and bites you and you know years later so I dabbled in that and realized that it was real and it was not something that that I wanted to you know mess with yeah you know I stuck more I focused more on self-evolution and meditation and and learning start you know how these Tibetan masters, you know, did these things. And then that led me to meditation and kundalini and pranayama yoga and stuff later. Okay. So you're going these college classes and you're pursuing, you know, music, you're pursuing art. You start getting recognized for your music ability, which I find interesting that, So they recognized you as an intelligent child, I assume.

Yeah, they always said, you know, he's, I really had no use for school. It wasn't teaching me, you know, what I wanted to learn. So I goofed off a lot. I was a class clown. I would always get the same report card. He has a lot of potential, but he doesn't focus on, you know. That sounds familiar. And as I got older, I would like get the book and I would read.

it like in the first night or two and learn it and then just goof off the rest of the year and a lot of times I had teachers that recognize that and they'd be like if you want you can take the test for the year now and I would take it and pass it and then the rest of the year they'd let me go to the library and just you know hang out and read so that's kind of cool actually it was very cool yeah everything's so structured today it's it's that that was something that was uh I don't think that would happen today. I don't think so either. And it was just, you know, a couple of teachers that recognized that.

Yeah. And help me out. So teachers are recognizing your intelligence. You're taking college courses on art and you're being recognized as a musician at early age. You were, I think, and you told us this story last night, I guess maybe we can kind of go into this and then we can transition back into more of the weird. but it might lay some groundwork for the music side of things, how it all kind of started with this jazz. Was it a jazz club?

It's R&B, R&B. Tell the story how that kind of unfolded. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. So the last two weeks of being a trucker were some of the most stressful moments of my life. I had handed my two-week notice in, and it wasn't to go work at another job, but to go and work for myself and start building Merkle, media. I tossed and turned in bed all night and hardly slept. I was terrified. Then on my new first day of self-employment, the terrified feeling was amplified even more because there was no turning back now.

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Get a break from your thoughts with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash yupp today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelphelp.com slash yupp. Seventh or eighth grade, I guess. And my homeroom teacher was really, this was in the 70s, you know, so he's a really hip guy, wrote a chopper to school. and let us play all the newest R&B stuff for us in school and class and stuff. But he recognized my artistic abilities, and then he found out that I was a drummer because a band came to our school and they got me up on stage to play a song, you know.

And so he was like, wow, you're really good. I know a band that's looking for a drummer, you know. It's on Sunday nights. It's an R&B club. and, you know, it pays 50 bucks a night. I was like, yeah, I'm there, you know? Yeah. So I would go to this club on Sunday nights.

My mom would drop me off. And I stuck out. I was a little kid, you know, with all these adults. And it was an R&B club, so it was mostly playing, you know, funk and R&B, that type of stuff. And these guys were just like whenever you were in the groove or, or a good drummer or feeling it, they would say, man, that song, your ass was so big on that last song.

You were holding down that groove. So that's where the biggest story came in. But yeah, and I fell in love with it. I just realized, oh, this is what I want to do. I knew right then, this is going to be my life. You know, I just knew right away. I'm going to be a professional musician, you know. And so you were.

And so you were. Most people, like, for me, I grew up and I'm like, at an early age, fell in love with basketball. I'm like, I'm going to be an NBA player. It never happened. But for you, it happened. Oh, it's like, how hard can it be? Had no, no gauge as to the actual skill level it takes to be playing at such high levels in the sports world, let alone the music industry. And the music industry is filled with very talented people who don't ever get recognized for that talent, you know?

it's a hard industry to break into for sure and I have some kind of I have some kind of I'm sure other people lots of people have it but musicians but where I could I can hear a song it's like a phonographic memory I can hear a song and then it's just there I remember it I can hear it once and then play it

it's just always been that way so that helped me out in the music business you know being a hired gun you know they would hire me like when I was out in L.A. Come in and, you know, play on a record or got to learn two hours worth of music to go on tour with this person. And I could do that really quick, quicker than anybody else in my circle.

So I got a lot of gigs that way. And I don't know why, but it's just something I'm able to do. When you're listening to a song and you pick it up like that, do you have to be focused in on the song and listening intently? Or is it something that just, it's going in your ears. And it's almost like, as it goes in your ears, it writes down on a piece of paper in your brain. You just have it. Both.

Like, a lot of times I would go to sleep with headphones and the song. So it was happening while I'm sleepingly. And I'd wake up and put the song and be like, oh, yeah, I know that. That's wild. Or I can just listen to it. you know and depending on what style of music and what everything i can really hone in and focus on stuff or i can just be like okay that's that and that and that okay you know got it wow that's impressive that's impressive somebody who doesn't play any music very impressive to me um but while you

were in l.a and doing the music stuff and i have no idea but i just wanted to ask you before i forget had, have you ever experienced any kind of like weird stuff with the LA, Hollywood scene and stuff? So much. That's why I left. Really? Yeah. Okay. We'll get into it. I don't want to jump the gun.

I don't want to jump the gun. We'll get back to the childhood. We'll dive into the weird, you know, weird stuff that happens out there. Hence, he's back in Kentucky. He's like, I'm going back home. But he took the long road back home, but he did go back home. So where we go from here? I mean, you had that experience with a UFO as a Boy Scout.

You're a childhood still. I don't know when the scoop scar comes in where you send a picture. As an adult. So where are we going here with the weird in your life? Let's see. The next place, I guess, would be as far as extraterrestrial stuff. Or anything. whatever is the next in your life.

I think as I'm talking to you more, it is important that we just lay the groundwork on your life. And let's not try to skip things to keep it on topic. Let's just talk about your life because I think at the end of it, you know, there's a lot of people that's going to listen to this and they're going to be able to be like, oh, well, he said this happened when he was a kid. Maybe that's why this happened at 20, you know?

So I think it's important that we just kind of talk and let the groundwork be laid. So wherever you want to go. Okay. Let's see. Did a lot of touring, moved to L.A., did the whole Hollywood scene, moved to Memphis. So when you were a kid, after that UFO experience, there wasn't a whole lot of weird then after that? No.

Okay. No. Other than I told you about the family farm. there was weird stuff there as far as, you know, it was a huge farm, thousands of acres, and we had lots of livestock cattle, lots and lots. So we would find dead cattle all the time because we were just, we would roam, you know, we were just kids just roaming free on the farm. And we'd all the time find mutilated cattle dead with circles cut out of,

them no blood, weird, you know, I'm not, we're probably junior high age. And it's in between, this farm is in between two Air Force bases. Very close.

And occasionally the Air Force jets would fly over and part the trees. That's how. That low? Yeah. Wow. But we didn't know anything about cattle mutilation. We were just like, oh,

there's a dead cow. but it's weird because, you know, part of its mouth is cut out. It's missing an eye. It's missing its tongue. No predation, you know, no coyotes or anything and have circles cut out on the backside. And we just, we didn't know what to think about it. We just, well, there's a dead cow. It's weird, you know, and just go on.

So nobody had any thoughts as to. You know, the idea of it being nefarious? No. So, hold on. Nobody thought it would be nefarious that the tongues cut out? It's missing his tongue? We were the ones, the kids, we were, we were all adopted on, like, all of that side of the family and basically farmhands, you know? Yeah.

So they stick us out in the fields to do the work, you know, that type of stuff. Yeah. And they just stay around and do what. close to home and do stuff. And we may say we saw a dead cow in this pasture, you know, but we had so many, so many cows. It wasn't like a, nobody went out to investigate. So you would just let it sit there and nature would take care of it over a few days.

Yeah. Gotcha. Did you ever notice that the cattle that were mutilated wouldn't go by by and they would just oddly sit there and nothing would touch it? Well, yeah, because a lot of the time, when we'd find them, they would be, you know, you could tell they'd been dead for a while. But like I said, no predation, no coyotes or no insects or whatever. We would just leave them there.

You know, eventually they would just kind of turn into mummies or whatever, you know. So, like, so it's, that's not natural. No. So, I mean, a dead animal, especially that size, you would think coyotes would come in, have a heyday, eat on it. Yeah. And that wasn't happening. And then the insects, yeah, wouldn't happen at all. You know, you'd run back up on one.

It's that same dead cow there. We didn't pay any attention. Yeah. That's interesting. So, yeah, it seems like, so the adults didn't venture out that far. That was your job. So it's like, okay, dead cow. Okay, so we just got to make sure we birth another one at some point.

Yeah. And as kids, you're seeing these mutilated cows, nothing is eating them and makes you wonder, you know, it makes you wonder the idea of like maybe radiation or something that animals can sense that they're like, I don't want to eat that because that's going to kill me. Well, since then, I've talked to like a couple people, Linda Moulton Howell. She's delved into that subject. And I guess sometimes they found, like, take a Geiger counter out, and they found high levels of radiation around these mutilation. Does she ever offer any idea as to why there would be high radiation around those areas? Like, is it what happened to the cow that left radiation,

or is there radiation there and that resulted in the cow mutilation or what? It's probably what happened to the cow somehow, some radiation involved. I don't know. I know that recently at that ranch, they got a TV show about... West Skywalker Ranch? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just recently, they went to some cattle mutilation sites where the cows had been there for quite a while and got spikes in radiation, just weird, high radiation levels. So, I don't know if I said this on a lot. recording before. But at the time of this recording, a few weeks ago, Jack and I went up into the mountains with Brian from Black Mass Paranormal. And Brian had been up there all day. Brian is a local guy. He hunts local legends and goes out, puts himself in the environment. I love that about him.

He just kind of goes, does it, sees what happened. He's very aware of the weird stuff happening around him. He's up there all day. And we were working so we couldn't go up with him, but we went up later in the afternoon for a few hours. I would say about two hours. We met him at Abrams Falls, and it's the area where Michael Heron went missing. Now, the story of Michael Heron is interesting because he's a local guy from this town, and he went up into the mountains. He had a farm up there that he was farming and he's going up to cut the lawn. He drove his truck up there, had his lawnmower on the back of a trailer. He gets to the house and he leaves his gun, his phone, his wallet, everything in his truck, hops on a four-wheeler and drives off down the road. He drives off down the road. He passes

a neighbor, waves at the neighbor and that neighbor's the last person never see him. When he waved to the neighbor, it wasn't like paranoid or anything. He was just, hey, how you doing? He was going for a ride. Nobody, he goes missing. They start searching for him. They finally, after days of searching, they find his four-wheeler. If I remember correctly, they found his four-wheeler. The key was in the on position. And it was, so it was like left running, totally out of gas.

And they say it's like he just was gone. Like something. So if you want to think cryptids, you can say that something jumped him, took, it just jumped him, took him, took him off. the four-wheeler, it coasted to a stop, ran out of gas, and he's gone because a dogman or puppy boy or Bigfoot, got him, right? But then there's these other thoughts that people are having with interdimensional aspects like time slips, and did he go somewhere? Was there a portal that opened up? There's a lot of portal talk up in these smokies. Later, I'm going to be having a guy

here in the studio who's worked for government-type agencies, and he has some information to share about the Smokies and the Appalachian Mountains where talking about portals, ancient pyramids in the mountains that are kind of hidden. And so I'm looking forward to having him in studio, but there's a lot of talk about this portal stuff. So we go up there. Brian had been up there all day and walking around investigating and Brian had brought a Geiger counter thinking that if a portal is opening up if this is a portal location,

maybe there's some radiation involved with it. We don't know, just trying things, right? So he gets out the, for the first time in the entire day he gets out the Geiger counter when we're there and I'm holding it and we're looking at it and it's just jumping from zero to like this little tiny number.

I didn't know what to make of it, but I wasn't very worried about it. This is that Abrams Falls? Yeah. And then we go walking around. We found a four-toe footprint. Jack and Brian both saw something black walking across the creek. On the other side of the creek, I should say, not across the creek.

But we were on one side and whatever it was. I didn't see it. And Jack was filming, but he looked at the footage. He didn't see it on the footage. We're walking back and we're making our way back to the trucks to say in the day. Brian was out there all day. He's exhausted. and the Geiger counter starts getting higher numbers.

It starts getting these higher number hits. And I'm not thinking anything about it. Like, I'm just like, whatever. Like, I recognize it. We're looking at it, all that stuff. We're acknowledging it in the moment, but I'm not worried. Like, I'm not like, whatever, you know. I don't know how to read this thing.

I don't know what a good number is or what a bad number is. Is any number bad? I don't know. So whatever, you know. And then we end the day. We go home. The next day, Brian texts me. and he says, how are you feeling?

I was like, fine, why? And he said that he was, he woke up in the morning, and he said his entire body, all the skin on his body felt like it was on fire. Oh, no. He said he couldn't open his eyes. His eyes felt like they were on fire.

And I was like, that sucks, bro. Like, I feel fine. It sucks be you. I said, I'll check with Jack, but, you know, I'm feeling great. Good as can be. And I text Jack, and I said, how are you feeling?

And with no context, he comes back and says, I was throwing up all night. Oh, no. And I was like, sucks to be you, bro. Like, I told him what happened with Brian. And, you know, I was like, I feel great, you know. So it must be the Puerto Rican blood, I guess. I don't know. It's the only thing I can figure.

But, yeah, so we had that, the radiation aspect there. And with the cattle mutilations and the radiation involved there, obviously you don't know if it was involved here in Kentucky because you didn't read it, right? But out in Utah, if there was radiation at the mutilation site there, and I know that they're talking about portals a lot right now on the show, there might be some common threats here to pull at, you know? and so it might be worth getting a Geiger counter out to your location, out to that area and starches. But first, you have to learn how to read it, I guess, because it's like, I don't freaking know how to read it. So, I mean, what's a dangerous level?

I mean, it's kind of important to know that in case you start getting readings. Exactly, yeah. But it's interesting. Now, you had these cattle mutilations. You have no idea what it is. do you ever recall having any kind of physical side effects after seeing these things or being around these mutilations? No. And now the other kids either?

No. Interesting. Yeah. Not that I can recall. And you guys never had any thought of any nefariousness. You just was like, oh, it's a dead cow again. Right. Yeah.

Wow. So only looking back on it is when you're like, wait a second. The mouth was cut out, the tongue. How'd that actually happen, you know? Yeah. In one of Linda's books, maybe glimpses about other realities, I'm not sure, but she had pictures of cattle mutilations. And I was like, that's what we saw, exactly. Wow, that's interesting.

And that was the first time I thought about it since. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny because cattle mutilations is something that isn't often socialized or associated with certain areas. and I have found that catamilations happen a lot all over to place. A very common thing, though, is catamilations happening near military bases. Yeah. And you said this property is right between two Air Forces bases.

And I know Shannon mentioned there was a guy in Kentucky that does research into cattle mutilations, but I haven't linked with him yet. But so it's people are aware of it. Yeah. You know, going around the farms in Kentucky. So your farm isn't the only farm to have this happening? No. Is it still happening today? Do you know?

Probably. I don't know. Not on our farm because we no longer have livestock. Okay. Is it still in the family, the farm? Yeah. Yeah. You have access to it? Yeah. Yeah. Do you go there often? No. It's a little farther than five minutes down the road. Yeah. Just so people understand, like you typically don't only travel about five minutes within where you live.

Yeah. And I have no idea how you agreed to come here to meet with me, but I'm grateful. But I got to return to favor and come up to you next time. That's right, yeah. Yeah. It was a battle. I wrestled with myself. Really?

Yeah. You've experienced some pretty traumatic car accidents, so you technically don't like riding a whole lot. Yeah, I usually have a guy drive me around. Yeah. But he was off being a rock star this weekend. Yeah. for other stuff. Yeah.

Okay. So you had those experiences as a kid with the cattle mulations on the family farm. When did you, what age, range was this? From probably, let's see, as far back as I can remember, because we were, you know, three, four years old out, just roaming. But when we were working, that would have been like 12, 13, you know, we had dirt bikes and we would round the cattle up and move them from pasture to pasture

and do cowboy stuff. So it was that age, you know, junior high. Okay. You mentioned about how even as a kid, you would explore this cave that we're going to get into later. Was there ever anything, any inkling that there's something different about the cave as a kid?

Just the... You've seen it. It just looks magical. It's amazing. It looks so out of place where it looks like something, you know. You could live there. Yeah. Yeah.

And I guess when Daniel Boone was in the area, he did. Yeah. You know. And, yeah, when I was a kid, high school age is when we started going there, like we found petroglyphs. And so I knew just besides the beauty and, magical feel of it that, you know, people had been going there forever and ever as they'd left petroglyphson.

There had been a couple of deaths there where the water comes out of the cave into that nice turquoise pool. Well, part of that pool goes down and down bottomless. Really? Yeah. We drove a tractor down there from the barn, which is maybe five miles up. on top of the mountain, and this is down in the valley. We had a hundred-foot logging chain.

We were going to see if we could see how deep it was. It never hit the bottom. There was some scouts there on a trip, and one or two of them drowned there. So it's... From like an underwater current, maybe? Yeah, like, probably... See, a lot of Kentucky is karst geology.

It's limestone riddled with... caves you know mammoth cave largest cave system in the world still not all explored a lot of those caves run completely across the whole state like you could travel you know hundreds of miles in them so i don't know where i was going with that but it's it's it's there's a lot of caves a lot of uh you know so this cave uh it has this this beautiful turquoise pool of water outside of the entrance and water flows from out of the cave into this pool. Yeah. But in this area, because of the car's topography, there's a lot of sinkholes.

And like you'll be walking down the creek and you'll just see where the bottom of the creek is falling out into this nice big blue hole. You know, and it may, it goes down into a cave system. You don't know where. Yeah. That's what I was thinking. And some of these, you know, they can create. They can have like a vortex or a whirlpool or some kind of current that can pull you under, you know. So the, see, here's what I'm thinking.

So if it's just a bottom list, like it goes down into a cave, from the pictures at least and even the video, it doesn't seem like the water that is going out into it is pumping enough to keep that pool filled if it's being dumped. Yeah. So I imagine there's probably some kind of water system underneath that's pushing up as well. Exactly, yeah. And it's just that bottomless, though. And yeah. That's wild. Yeah.

That's wild. Yeah. It really makes you wonder where that water goes. Yeah. And then there's the, you know, there's an underground lake in the cave that in order to get to, you got to, you got to dive down into like a maybe a four foot pool of water. and swim about maybe 15 or 20 feet through a passage. Underwater.

Yeah. And then it opens up into this big underground lake. How big is the lake? I haven't seen it all. I mean, it goes for a while. It's pretty huge. Is there a shoreline? No.

No. So it's just like this giant cavern of water. But there's air down there. Yeah. I didn't explore it because it was. you know, scary and how long ago was this for you? I was in high school then.

High school? Yeah. Wow. Now I probably, you know, if I'm, I'd probably get my wetsuit and, you know, wow, a GoPro and go for it.

Yeah. How far back is it in the cave? Oh, it's just that big room where we would camp. As soon as you start to walk, okay, you walk back about 100 feet and then you come to that pool of water you got to walk through that pool of water about six feet to get to go through the rest of the cave so it's right at that pool you can wow this cave

like well like you said yesterday magical i i uh you said something i forget what you said but i i questioned you about the cave and you're just like it's magical man it is it is it is it is it is it's So it's, I can understand how there's Patrick Gliss down there. It seems like it would be a hub a long time ago. Yeah. A place for shelter. And Daniel Boone, did he stay there? Do he live there or what?

He stayed there, camp there. Camp there. Yeah. And the creek that it's on has a telling name. I'm not going to say what creek it is because it would give the location away. yeah it's you know he camped there it's wow wow that's really cool that's really cool um so in high school you guys explore this cave uh outside of your just imaginations and exploring there was never you know anything that was like holy crap kind of thing no there's something weird about this place

no never and and our our mindset was uh you know we were high school kids, we'd take a boombox and crank it up and party, walk through the cave, you know, listening to Rush or whatever. It's back in the 80s. Yeah. I can imagine. I can imagine. Okay.

So you guys explored the cave a lot, and it sounds like there's more to explore in the cave to this day. Definitely. Yeah, we didn't explore. We didn't touch it, you know. You said you've been back about a mile and a half, two miles into it. Yeah, the water that flows through the cave, it comes in at that other entrance. So you walk all the way through the cave and you can come out, and that's where the water flows in. So you've been to the other end?

Yeah. Yeah, you can walk all the way through, and then you can come out and just kind of walk around the mountain. There's a path, and it'll bring you right back to that great big pool of water outside the cave. So, uh, but this cave isn't just a straight shot. There's other, there's other, there's offshoots. Offshoots. Yeah. And that's what you're talking about.

You haven't explored all that. Right. Yeah. Just, just a few. Is it, is, it has just a few offshoots? No, we've only explored maybe two or three. Gotcha. Yeah. But there's many more. Yeah.

And is it something that you, you just didn't have the time to explore, or was there a reason why certain areas it was impossible or what? Basically the time. Yeah. I mean, you know, we'd, you know, we'd, We'd go there a lot, and then we'd be like, oh, well, let's go check this shoot off, you know, and you'd follow it to a dead end sometimes, and then, you know, so, yeah. And when's the last time you're at the cave?

It would have been the last, end of last summer. Okay. Yeah, I went, I haven't been back to camp overnight. Since? Since my face-to-face encounter. With Bigfoot. Yeah, which was in, what was it, 13? Really?

Yeah. What were your thoughts about Bigfoot before then? I had no thoughts about Bigfoot. I didn't even know about Bigfoot. When I was a kid, I saw the legend of Boggy Creek at the theater when it came out, like before another movie or something. It was like the preview, you know. And it scared the hell out of me.

I didn't know it was a Bigfoot. It was just, you know, they didn't say it was a Bigfoot or whatever. Yeah. But I forgot about that, you know, because I spent a lot of time in the woods. It scared me for that next hunting season, but after that I just forgot about it. And didn't even know about Bigfoot until the TV show, finding Bigfoot, really. Yeah. So how did you get linked up with Bobo and Clifford?

Because I know you're friends with them. Yeah. I guess it was about 2010, maybe. I found out about the BFRO and that they had a Kentucky branch and a website. So I put my report, my report of my encounter, and Matt saw it. So Matt called, I guess, the local Kentucky guy to investigate, but he wanted to set up like an expedition. where people pay to come.

He didn't just want to come and investigate with me. Like, let me show you, you know. Yeah, they wanted to make money. Right, right, right. Yeah. And that's cool, you know, but that's not. It's not what you were trying to do. No, so I didn't meet up with him.

But so then Matt told Cliff and Cliff called me. And it was like, hey, Bobo and I've got this podcast, we want you to come on and tell your story. I was like, all right. So it was like episode 58. You know, they just pretty much started out. And so, yeah, that's how we linked up. Gotcha.

And been friends ever since. Yeah, because I was just, I was at the conference this past weekend, and Moneymaker was there, Cliff was there. Bobo wasn't there, but Renee was. I didn't get a chance to talk with Moneymaker much at all. But I spent time sitting around on table talking with Renee and Cliff and Matt Pruitt. Yeah. Just really good people.

Yeah. Really, really good people. We don't agree on everything. Right. Right. But it was refreshing clearly. I'm crazy. I say crazy.

And you don't have to agree. No. But I was refreshing to be able to just kind of talk. And not worry. I got a real sense that I could pretty much say anything. And they would be like, I don't think so. But that's cool that you think that. Yeah.

That's true. I just wanted to sit there and just go, portals. You know? Like, it's a, I just, I was so bad. I just wanted to be like, okay. Let's let's just play the groundwork here. Yeah.

But shoot, maybe one day we'll have them on the show here. That'd be kind of cool. But anyways, we kind of went down this little path here because, but getting back to the cave, so the last time you were there was at the end of last summer. Yeah. Is this a spot that has ever become frequented by like a popular location for people to hang out at? I mean, I imagine it's the opposite because the kids these days don't go outside. Right.

Which is actually probably a good thing. that if you think about it, like, you know, I'm kind of old school. I was just talking to my wife the other day about it. I was like, our kids don't go outside. Tell them to go and play on the sidewalk. It's 95 degrees out. Just tell them to go.

You know, throw some water at them. Yeah, but. Go out and play in the sprinkler. Yeah, but it's interesting because, you know, all these, well, some would say sacred locations, whether they're actually sacred or just to us sacred, are being protected by technology and the youth being distracted.

Right. I mean, that case sounds like a place that if it was really well known, would have graffiti everywhere. Yeah, it would. It has some from people in the past, apparently. No spray paint, though. Oh, it's not spray paint? No, it's just carvings.

That's perfect. Yeah. Okay, so you're just leaving your mark in time. Even my petroglyph that I left was carving. Okay. Yeah. Gotcha. That's cool.

Because when you said, when you said, because it was Van Halen, right? Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I was like, dang, man, that graffiti. but now if it's carved, that's different. And it's just their VH logo. Okay. That's cool.

Youth has to be youth. That's right. Yeah. So, yeah, it's private. Private property? Yeah. How do you get on it then? I've been friends with the family since high school.

They don't mind you going back there? No, I'm like the only person they'll let. Will they let me go back with you? They would. Okay. They let me take who I want, but they don't let anybody else go. and you know it took a few years for me to

get their their blessing to go by myself or take other people really yeah okay so it wasn't just like oh yeah I remember you from you know no I mean we like I said I'm really tight with this family played in bands with the older sister the next brother and the next brother all three different bands

different times and even worked for the grandfather as a plumber. Have you not done? I know. Holy crap. And, you know, his grandmother would feed his lunch every day or his mom would feed his lunch every day and, you know, so real tight with the family. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. Okay. So this cave is something that was part of your childhood, kind of left to memory for a long time as you went through life. Yeah. Where does this, so like, we talked about you being a musician. Do you look at archaeology and historian in the same vein? So like, like when you say you're an archaeologist,

is this like an amateur archaeologist or are you trained? You're trained? Yeah. How did that hold? I just got interested. As a young kid, my older cousin was going to University of Kentucky studying archaeology and anthropology. She took me on a dig when I was about sixth grade maybe, and I found some spear points. And, you know, holding a spear point that's 10,000 years old or 9,000 years old.

You know, I got hooked. I just loved it. She eventually became the state archaeologist. and I got interested in it. Of course, I was on the road and traveling and stuff, so I didn't do anything with it until the early 90s. I guess I just finished a tour with Sweet F.A. and moved back to Kentucky and started exploring.

And when I got this property, there was a helicopter crash, wintertime. And so the NTSB and state police and all the law enforcement was out looking for this crash. On your property? Yeah. You owned it at the time. Yeah. Okay.

It didn't crash on our property, but they thought it may have. They found it eventually somewhere else, more towards that creek. Okay. Yeah. So we were walking around looking for this. I was with one of the law enforcement guys, and we ran up on some guys looting this archaeological site. Actively, right there?

Actively looting burials and taking bones and beautiful artifacts. What, native? Yeah. And they were down there with the shaking. So loud, they didn't hear us walk up behind them. They caught them right in the act. The thing is that. though, the law enforcement guy I was with was a local guy.

And he's like, oh, yeah, that's the school teacher and that's so-and-so. Oh, they're good, they're good old boys. And I'm like, no, they're not. They're looting property and destroying burials. Oh, they don't mean any harm. We're just, we're just collecting rocks. I said, well, how would you like it if I came over to your family cemetery and dug up your grandma and sold her bones on eBay?

Yeah. Oh, that's different. How is it different? These are my ancestors on my property. How is it different? Yeah. You know? And nothing happened to them.

But I found that archaeological site because of it. So I got together with the state archaeologist who was from England and had written this book, a textbook that I had read probably 10 times on. archaeology and I had studied I don't know studied hard for probably five years learning everything about archaeology then I met this state archaeologist and he's asking me where I got my doctorate from and I'm like I'm self-taught he's like you taught yourself all of this he's like you know more than any of my graduate students I was like by the way I got this book and you autograph He's like, you bought that?

He's like, you're one of the two people who bought that? You're the guy that bought that book? Like, yeah, I read it 10 times. We just saw it. Wow. So, mom fixed us some lunch, and then we went out and walked and went to the site, and I showed him some artifacts that I'd found. And so we got the university out there and did a proper excavation.

and turned out through carbon dating charcoal and various, you know, you can look at lithics like points and tell when they were made by the style. There's different styles. Like I could look at this Kirk Cornernotch pine tree point until it was, you know, that's 9,000 years old. And because of the slant on the left side, you can tell, oh, it's made the same guy.

I made this one too, same person, you know. So we dated. it radio carbon dating to over 12,000 years, which rewrote the history books for Kentucky because they didn't think Native Americans actually lived in the state before that. They thought they just came and shared it like as a happy hunting ground with, you know, they would just come in and hunt and leave and maybe have little camps. Why would they think that? I don't know.

It was just what the history had, you know. pointing towards yeah but we changed that and and now there's lots of excavations going in the National Forest right around there

really and so after this he asked me to come work at UK University of Kentucky so I did I went and worked at the anthropology department and I was his number two guy there which kind of ruffled the feathers

of the original number two guy but I imagine But I had more experience, just, you know, and he gave me the keys to this huge warehouse where they just have tons of artifacts, like just a warehouse full of artifacts from Kentucky. And you could just go look at them? Yeah, and tons of maps. It was just like heaven for me, you know. Yeah. So I did that for a couple of months.

But there again, the drive, it was about a 45 minute. drive 40 minutes more than my your comfort zone yeah so i i quit in doing that but uh you know still still uh interested in archaeology and history and still doing it yeah wow wow uh i know we talked about we were we were kind of talking about this uh earlier but um let's keep talking about this archaeology aspect here. Where does the excavation of giants come in play here? Are we talking about in Kentucky or what?

Yeah. So there's a place called Indian Fort Mountain. And it was a site. They dated it to Edina, Hopewell, and what they call the Fort Ancient Society. But it's actually probably a lot older than that. And it's right on this path called the Warriors' path and this path goes from like Florida through Tennessee through Kentucky all the way up to

the Great Lakes where they would mine copper so Indian Fort Mountain when you're standing on top of it it's called the Pinnacles there's there's a great big stone sacrificial altar like you would see at a Mayan temple or an Aztec temple where they used to perform sacrifices it was fortified they built walls to protect to keep people from accessing the summit and if you're on the summit who's they? The people of the past or people today have the past. Okay. Yeah. So maybe other

warring tribes. Okay. Yeah. So if you're on there, on top and you look out to the southwest, there's a mountain, a knob called pilot knob and it looks like, I think I showed you a picture a natural pyramid. It's like, and they used it as such, and they built these earthworks all around this area

for their houses and ceremonial buildings and stuff. And I discovered these earthworks. They're previously unknown. But there was an excavation done. I worked on with, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill and Brea College, and we excavated Indian Fort Mountain and found a burial of an eight-foot-tall-tall-chief shaman, maybe, with had a hammered copper skull cap and three pieces of hammered copper. like breast plates and I've got slides of those but yeah so this guy was eight feet tall and uh you know that that's just it I mean what do you think about that because I mean we hear people uncovering

giant bones of the past here in this country and the bones go missing disappearing go missing they disappear um people say the masonian is covering things up uh i've there's a guy who regretfully i wasn't able to get in the studio next time he's in town but he was a guest for episode 17 i believe uh jason and i believe he's the one who told me that when he was a kid his grandfather would told him that that when his grandfather was a kid here in tennessee they were digging up these giant bones. And it's like supposedly it's not true. It's not real.

Yeah. But you're sitting here telling me you were part of a dig where that you dug up an eight foot tall skeleton. It's real. And Squire and Davis did a survey of most of the burial mounds in the Ohio Valley, I think for Thomas Jefferson. And it's really a thorough survey, archaeological survey. but they list many, many large burials, eight foot or more.

And there's so many, I mean, you know about all the news reports over the years, eight-foot skeleton found in burial mounds. You know, the head, the skull was so large it could fit over a man's head, that type of thing, rows of double teeth, six digits on fingers and toes. Did you have any of that on the skeleton? No, it was just big. I mean, that probably could have, I'm sure the skull would have, you know, fit over like a helmet. But, of course, we didn't try that.

Wow. But, yeah, it's real. And, you know, a lot of them were, I think were taken by the Smithsonian and, you know. Do you think they destroyed or they hide it? I think they hide it. If you're going to hide it, why not destroy it so you don't have to worry about hiding it? But there are cases of them destroying stuff too. You know, there's, we'll just dump lots of bones in rivers, you know, just to get rid of them.

Yeah. Really? Yeah. So theoretically, the bones are still around somewhere. Or do you think does the water destroy the bones over time? It takes a long time because when I was treasure diving on that 1622 wreck in Florida, that Spanish galleon, And I found bones from those sailors. Really?

Yeah. Actually brought back to Kentucky and had a burial. Really? Yeah. You buried the bones you found in the wreck in Kentucky? Yeah, on my farm. That's interesting. Yeah, I just felt like that was no place for eternal rest.

Wow. Maybe a nice place under a tree with a view. Wow. Wow. Okay. So this giant skeleton you uncovered, do you have pictures of that? I've got some slides. What do you mean by slides?

Like PowerPoint presentation slides? No, like actual slides. Really? Yeah, because it was 1980 was when this excavation took place. Really? Yeah, so. And. So how old were you when this happened?

High school. You were in high school? Yeah, I volunteered because. So were you working at KU in high school? No, this was before. So this is before KU? Yeah, before UK. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was Brea College and University of Chapel Hill in North Carolina, but the Brea College, the guy that was in charge, was my guitar player's dad, and he was an archaeologist, who had spent time in the Middle East and all over. And he kind of became my mentor. or he's the one that really got me really involved in it. And before he passed away, he gave me his file on that area where I am. Big thick file.

He said, you're the only person I know that's interested in this kind of stuff. You still have it? Yeah. What kind of information's in there? Oh, man, so much information. everything about that Indian Fort Mountain and a lot of the burial mounds in the area. Like it gives locations and things that were found and excavations. Was your giant the only giant found?

Probably not. A lot of those mounds around there haven't been excavated. Still? Yeah. What are they waiting for? Is it one of those things where it's academics that has to be just, They have to justify it through academics, or is it funding, or is it respect for the mound itself and the burial, or what? No, a lot of it is they're on private property, some of them.

And sometimes the property owner doesn't want that. A lot of times they built their house on top of these mounds. No wonder why it's haunted. Yeah. And, you know, it's just, I don't know. There have been excavations, though, where giant bones have been found, but not so much in my area because the funding isn't really there. You know, it's, and most of those excavations took, you know, were years and years and years ago. I don't really know of anybody that's doing any work in burial mounds now.

Are you against it? I'm not. I've explored quite a few and, you know, I think responsible archaeology is cool, you know. Yeah. You learn a lot from it. Yeah. And I know there's a lot of people that are like anti-digging the barrier mounds up and stuff. And, you know, I go back and forth on a lot of different things.

You know, I'm not emotionally attached to a lot of stuff. Yeah. So, you know, the fact that you're saying you dug one up, I'm sure there's people listen, you're like, how could he, you know? I'm like, whatever, it's cool, man, you found a giant bone. It's cool. Let's talk about that. It was all done respectful and, you know, ethically. Properly. Yeah.

There's protocols and rules, and we follow those. But, I mean, if we hadn't had done it, nobody would have known, you know. And they'd still be, you know, I think that their whole, I think that site is, way older than

adena and you know adena culture I think it's way older what's

adena culture they were than the indigenous culture that lived what they called the

archaic period which would be like 6,000 7,000 years ago okay

and while he's reaching in his bag pulling something special out. It's magical. Uh-oh, what is this? Unwrapping it with a handkerchief. That's an adena axe. Seven thousand years old. Can I hold it? Yeah.

That is wow. I'm holding up for the camera right now. Jack, we got to make sure we put this on YouTube. Oh, wow. You can see these plow marks where disc, when the farmers were disc in their field, they ran across it with the disc. 7,000 years old. Yeah. So like they was this fastened by a rope here? Yeah, it was hefted onto a stick. So you could use it as an axe to. This is incredible. Well, I didn't expect this when I came into the office.

Wow. That's crazy. Yeah. How many people found things like this and didn't, didn't think anything of and it just discarded it? Lots. Yeah. That's, it's wild.

And a lot of people, you know, find it. They don't know what it is. Like my heart is pounding right now, just holding it. Like, I'm so, like, this is... Somebody made that 7,000 years ago. And used to... And when they made this, they never expected 7,000 years later

a podcast dork being amazed by it. Right. You know what I mean? Like, to them, this is like, it's like, oh, it's a stupid plastic spoon. Yeah. He cares. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's, wow, that's amazing. man. That is amazing. Wow. And that came from where? Kentucky. Yeah, but was it from,

where did it come from in Kentucky? Was it from a mound or what? No, it was from a farmer's field. Farmer's field. Yeah. And he just plowed it up. And you stumbled across it or did it to you or what? A buddy of mine stumbled across it and then he knew that I'm, you know. I know the guy for this. Yeah. He can tell me what this is, you know. And then he gave it to me. Wow. Do you know where the field that it came from?

No, I don't. But recently, did you hear, just like a week ago, a farmer was plowing his field and hit a horde of, they call on it the Kentucky horde, gold coins like Civil War. It was millions of dollars worth.

Why not me? That's amazing. I know a spot by a seed of tree. I might be coming up with you, you know, today. Yeah. Can you dig a hole? I can dig a hole.

I can dig a hole. Bad back in all, I can dig a hole. All right. There's your next song. Yeah. There's a story there, friends. Okay, so the excavation, you have the slides.

And so these slides are something that you would hold up to a light and you could see it. Yeah. Can you even get that printed as a picture still? I'd say you can. Yeah. Where would you go for something like that? You'd probably have to send it somewhere. It would be my guess.

Some of our special. Yeah. If somebody had like one of those red rooms, would they be able to do it? Like if I made one of those? Probably. I'm going to start. I'm going to print them for you. I'm just going to, because I don't trust people.

So I don't want to send it anywhere. Yeah. It ain't coming back. You know? So if somebody's listening right now that lives within an hour or two from East Tennessee, give me a shout. If you know how to print this stuff, we'll, we'll do this on the private level. If not, we could do the old-fashioned slideshow where you drop it in and project it.

Oh, you can do that? Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have those slides with you? No.

No, darn it, man. No, I didn't bring them. No? I almost did. Next time I almost brought that whole file and I had to. Oh, my gosh. Travel a little lighter. I just brought one file about that thick.

He's got a backpack full of treasures. Yeah. It's amazing. I do have some treasures in here. What is that? Oh. This is wild. What's that? Is that the silver?

That's over a pound of silver, raw silver, from one of the John Swift's silver mines. Are you sure it's John Swift's silver mine? It has to be. I asked, my great uncle was a treasure hunter, among other things, but he's the one that got me interested in this. When he, before he died, he gave me John Swift's journal and another book written. The real?

A copy, okay. With all the maps. and stuff in it. And he gave me a riddle on how to find this mine, an actual riddle, like a paragraph. And this is your uncle? Yeah, great uncle. Great uncle. And so before he died, we were sitting on the front porch, him and my grandfather and I, they're brothers. And I'm like, so Uncle Oscar, where's that silver mine, you know? He's like, oh, you could walk to it from here. and I'm thinking, okay,

these are the guys that told me they used to walk to the courthouse and the county seat, which is 35 miles away. Yeah. For the day and then walk home.

I'm like, is that humanly possible? They're like, oh yeah, we used to do it all the time. This is the guy that walked and wrote a bike from Florida to Kentucky. Okay. So I'm thinking, that doesn't really narrow it down, you know. And then my grandfather interrupted him, and we never got back around to the conversation.

So I had to figure out the riddle. Do you know the riddle now? Yeah. Do you feel comfortable of saying it? No, I can't say, yeah. But that's a chunk of silver you got from the mine. It's raw silver, yeah, that came from the mine. mine. When you, so you went looking for the mine and you found the mine and you found this in the mine.

No. He found that in the mine. He found this in the mine. I know where the mine is. Have you been to it? No. Why? Can't get anybody to go with me. I mean, I'm saying like, I know. And it's even like, I'm so glad I'm even like, look, I'll share treasure with you. If you can just come and dig a hole for me. I'm not saying this is the way it's going to play out, but I know you're listening right now, Justin, I'll talk to him about it later. Justin knows what I mean. Okay.

So what's this? This is quartz crystal that's all over the area. Of the mine? Where I live. Where you live? Yeah, everywhere. And it's got embedded in it as silver, like raw silver in the quartz crystal.

Bristol. There's also been gold. This is off your property. Yeah, right. The 40 acres you own. Yeah. Wow. And the creek that runs below the property, there's also been found industrial grade diamonds, gold. This is right below the silver mine. So it's a... Okay. Okay.

I don't even want to finish the job today. I just want to go to Kentucky. I don't even... Like, I want to call recess on this whole record. and just bail on it. And another thing about this quartz being everywhere, that's courts with copper, you know, quartz,

everything in the universe vibrates with a frequency. Quartz has the highest vibrational frequency of anything. So, for instance, that's why there's energy in quartz, you know, that's why, you know, your watch, it's got a quartz crystal in it to power it, or piezoelectric, you know, that's quartz crystal energy. They actually grow crystals in space because they're more symmetrical, and they use them in, you know, electronics. So one of the reasons why I just popped in my head recently was why are these UFOs coming and hovering over this one spot all the time?

every night. Yeah. There's tons of courts. Wow. I mean, that's a great thought. I mean, it's like, is it accurate? Who knows? But it's a great connection to think about. So we haven't even talked about that, but the property you live on now every night, you can record UFOs to the point that you're bored with it. Right. Yeah. And I've seen video of like the one, we'll just call it an orb, UFO, whatever it is. You see it flying around and as it passes by the power lines that the power line starts sparking. And that was like six feet from my window. From me, yeah.

Wow. When I was filming it. Wow. We'll get into that later. I don't want to. So the Swift Silver Mine, you know where it's at. One of them. There's more than one.

There's more than one. Yeah. Okay. So I don't know a ton about the Swift Silver Mine. All I know, this is how I, this is, how I found out about it. Justin from Appalachia Intelligence podcast, they found a

then they were here talking about it. They found a very large rock that had petracles on it and it looked like it was trying to tell a story. And somehow they were tipped off that the Swiss silver mine was marked by

a rock or something. So they saw, started going down this idea of the Swiss silver mine, right? They, they know where the rocks at, they found it. I have, I have pictures of it. He said, whenever you come up, we'll go and get it and check it out. Yeah. That's really all I know much about it. So you're saying there's more than one mine. Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting story. The whole story of Swift is pretty incredible. I could give you a little of the history. Sure, go ahead. Yeah. He was a I think he's born in 1621 maybe and Alexandria, Virginia, was a mason, was in the shipping,

had, I think it was a privateer, you know, which is basically a pirate, but the queen sanctions it. So you go out and you try to, you know, steal from other countries' vessels. So he's basically a pirate. it. He was in Alexandria, Virginia, ran into basically a homeless dude, homeless young kid on the street named Mundy and showed him some kindness, took him in, took care of him. And in return, Mundy told him his story. Mundy had been with some French furtrapers and kid,

by Sean E and then... Native's? Yeah. Okay. Then kidnapped by Cherokee from the Shawnee

E. Who kind of adopted him into their tribe, which they did a lot. That was just common practice. But they started using him to, as labor,

to mine silver in these various minds that they had. And, And so he knew where these minds were. And then eventually they trusted him enough to where he could escape. So he escaped, made his way to Virginia, and that's where he ran into Swift and told him this story.

And he's like, I can show you where the mines are. You know, I know exactly where they are because you've been so cool to me, you know. So the word is that he sailed to Cuba to pick up a couple of his friends that were Silversmiths also I think guys in Jeffries was a name came back organized to an expedition

and hiked across the Appalachians and there was two different routes they took one was up like towards Fort Pitt and down the Canawa and Big Sandy but they had what they called the upper lines and the lower mine

So there's more than one mine. And if you look at the different maps, the various maps that show those, you know, where they left rock carvings or signs to show where these mines were. And if you read the diary, it talks about how they would come and they would work these mines and get as much silver as they could. they would even meant coins, English crowns, which turned out to have more pure silver

than actual English crowns. And then they would make ingots and what are called pigs, basically like ingots with holes in them that you can run a rope through to carry them. But a lot of times they mined more silver than they could carry out. So they would,

a lot of times they would disguise the mine by rocking it up, putting brush in front of it and stuff. Least symbols on trees or rocks. And then go back. And he would take the coins and the silver back and buy more ships. And he was really anti-English. So he was helping to fund some, through his Mason friends, to fund some revolution-type stuff.

But he kept going every year. and getting more and more silver and his groups got bigger and bigger. And a lot of times the story goes that he would use natives or people to do the work and would kill them when they left so they couldn't tell where the location of the mines were. so there's little bad karma there. All right, and we're back. We had to take a bathroom break there. Jack, how long have we been running so far?

About two hours. All right, about two hours. So we're going to kind of go for maybe another 30, 40, 50 minutes an hour or whatever. And then we'll probably, at some point, we're going to transition into the overtime and then membershow. Just so people understand, we're going to get back on what we were just talking about. but like we've, we've barely scratched the service. I'm looking at this. I'm like, we've barely talked about the cave.

Because I started going down the archaeology route. So we are covering that, which is great. But, you know, your treasure hunting journeys and stuff, we kind of touched on a little bit, but there's just so much. And it's, this is one of the hardest things about doing this show is that when you have somebody like you here or even virtually, and you're trying, as the conductor of the conversation,

you're trying to figure out how to bring it all together, you know? And so we're just having a conversation to see where things go. But my lord, I mean, we haven't touched the three Bigfoot encounters. We haven't touched the portal pictures. Like, all that. And so we can actually move into that if you want. We can, but I don't want to move away from what we were just talking about. And you pulled out more treasures and put them on the table with no story behind it.

So like, let's just keep it going where we were going. We were talking about the legend of the Swiss silver mine. Yeah. So just keep it going and we're going to just see where this conversation goes. Okay. So as I was saying, there's more than one mine and they called them the upper and lower mines. And they would, a lot of times, they would have these big mule trains to carry the silver out. Sometimes when they were carrying the silver out, they would get attacked by natives and maybe a horse.

horse or a mule got shot and so now they've got silver that they've got to hide so a lot of times they would bury kegs of coins or things of silver bars you know whatever and they would leave masonic signs or or other signs on trees or rocks close by to to market so they could find it later and a lot of them they didn't they never did find later And that happened quite a bit where they would get attacked and lose some of their treasure. But eventually, he became a wealthy man and made quite a few trips to these mines and was going back to England and helping finance some of his anti-king activities with the silver. he got arrested and thrown into the Tower of London and was there for years

while he was in the Tower of London, he lost most of his eyesight. So by the time he was released and came back to the States to try to pick up his mining operations, he could barely see he had, the story goes, one of the story,

there's many versions, but one of the story goes at this lady in Bean Station, Tennessee, helped him go out and look for these treasures, these caches, these mines. But with his bad eyesight, he could never find it. And then he died and left his journals and maps to the lady at Bean Station. And that's where we get the legend from. Where are these maps in journals now?

You can buy... No, the real ones. Oh, the real ones. where the real ones are. They made copies, some drawings, and I've got a couple of books. One of them is by Michael Paul Henson, who's really into this and has done a great bit of research to help us all out on this. So there's a couple of books, you know, and you can, of course, online, but these maps, they're so vague. You know, they'll have maybe like a latitude on them

and all kinds of secret symbols and stuff. And it's just so vague that, you know, it's hard to. And of course, a lot of those trees that they made the symbols on are gone. And a lot of times they would, like I said, they would wall up these, minds to hide them. And, you know, they've just been lost to time. How did you find the mind that you're talking about? And remind me, it's because it's been a few minutes here, but have you actually been to it yet? No. You haven't. But you know it's there. I know exactly where it is. So, so how did you find it and how do you even know it's there if you've never been there?

Okay. Years of research. And then you know my uncle telling me you could walk to it from here but I started looking at old maps old land deeds for the county where I live and then I would look at topo maps and satellite maps and in a very old document I found a listing of

more than one but the one close to me a silver mine so it took a long time to find the right map an old map uh that showed it on the map and said silver mine x mars a spot well that's the creek below my house and so i started asking some of the old timers around there uh my neighbors uh you know have you ever heard about mine around here. There's tons of old mines. It's, you know, coal mines and stuff. But I told this one guy, this old timer guy, where it looked like it was on the map. And he said, oh yeah, I know where that is. That's right below the pourover on the creek. And you go up to the left and then it's right there on the right. And that's exactly where it showed on the map.

that I had found. And I talked to a couple more people who actually have a silver mine on the, I guess it's probably the top of that mountain that they've been trying to work recently the last few years. So I know, I know exactly where it is. And this is on your property.

It's not on my property. It's not, okay. It borders my property. Like, who owns it? It's, uh, National forest, I think. So if you found it, you'd have to talk to them about it, then. It's not like you could just start digging in there, right?

Yeah, if it's national forest. Actually, now that I think about it, I think that's the section that's not national forest. There's borders on both sides. I think that's private land. But, yeah, I would talk to the landowner, you know, for sure. I know where a gold mine is, too. Yeah.

What? Yeah. This is, the gold mine is right, right below the sacred mountain I told you about. Well, right there, the Civil War burial ground and the Indian burial ground that my father built a lake over. Yeah. Well, right at the head of that hollow is a gold mine. And I talked to the property owner. He said they worked it back in the late 1800s, mid-1800s,

but with the technology that they had, they played it out. But that was mid-1800s. He said, you can go up there anytime you want, take your metal detector, and you probably find some gold. And you haven't been up there yet. I haven't. Because you're waiting for somebody. Exactly.

You found that somebody. Like my job is to talk about crazy. stuff and going on the journeys as part of the job. And that would be so awesome because I want to do it and I can't find anybody to go with me. Which baffles me? Yeah. Which baffles me. But maybe people are too busy.

They work. I'm retired. So I've got all the time in the world. Maybe the idea. Maybe it's maybe I'm over estimating about the number of people who have an adventurous spirit, you know, because I have a show where a lot of people that live. listen to show, have adventurous spirits, but maybe as a broad hole, people don't have that. They don't. As life beats them up. No, they don't. Well, you found somebody who is a very unique

situation. That's great because I'm close to you. Because I got said, the only person I know wants to go out at night in the rain. Yeah, I mean, I'll do that too, but I mean, like, no. Oh my gosh. Jack, you down? Jack says these, yeah. Right on. We're doing it. We're like, We're very much doing it. I mean, so, yeah, I mean, you're two and a half hours from me. I mean, like as we said last night, you said we could stay at your place. Yeah. But, I mean, in all reality, if I had something to do the next day, like, say, have an interview

schedule, I could drive up, leave here at six, be there at 8.30, spend a day hunting legends, be back for bedtime to kiss the kids. Good night. Yeah. It's wild, man. I am so. Well, that's the show, everybody. we're leaving.

We're going hunting. Forget about the rest of the stories. We're not interested in sharing with you. We're going to be self-serving today. I'm just kidding. So, all right. That's the Swiss silver mine, at least one of them. You know where there's a gold mine.

You have permission to go there. Definitely going to do that. You mentioned last night, you hinted at it. here where you know where there's a stash and literally you're almost to it but your physical condition prevents you from finishing the job right um tell them tell the people about this yeah so there's a a civil war camp where general grant camped for uh on the way to the battle of richmond and they basically fought from this campground five minutes from the house all the way he was to the Battle of Richmond.

And where they camped, my great-grandfather was camped there as one of the soldiers. I've heard this story. But so I went down there with a metal detector, and I knew that back in the day, historically, when the armies would come through, people would hide their belongings, because the armies would come through and take everything they had, money, livestock, food, whatever, you know. So they would usually bury their valuables in a mason jar, in a flower bed, where flowers would come back up, and they would always know there's the bank right there, or a great big

tree. So in this area, I found an old house site with a few wildflower bed still there. So I started detecting and around, and then on the way I found a giant old-growth cedar tree. So I started hitting that with the metal detector, and immediately lit up gold and silver, just crazy, singing gold and silver. So all I had was my little spade, and it was in the middle of summer, hard, hard dirt. So I could only dig down 12 inches or so, but it still kept hitting just another maybe foot below where I had dug to. So I'm like, well, I got to come back here with a real shovel and try to dig it up. So I did go back with the real shovel and my buddy, the one that likes to go out at night in the dark.

But as we're heading to this spot, he wanders off and gets lost somewhere. Yeah. He saw a shiny rock in the creek or something that got distracted. So I get to the spot and I turn around. I'm like, where is he? I don't, he's gone. What kind of friend is this? What kind of friend is this?

Oh, I've got stories. What kind of friend is this? Bro, stay on mission. Stay on mission. Yeah. For love of God, stay on mission. His attention span is like a gnat. Jeez.

So I don't know where he is and I'm standing there with the shovel, two torn rotator cuffs. And I'm trying to dig and it's just not happening. Because there's roots. You've got to get around and stuff. And I waited around and waited around, shot some video, tried to dig some more, and finally just gave up. It's like, well, I better go find him. He's lost, you know. Wow.

Wow. So I hope nobody has gone back there and found the hole and be like, oh, what's there? Yeah. Is it a high traffic area? No, not enough. Okay. So the odds are probably pretty slim. Yeah.

It's not easy to get to. So I don't know much about metal detecting, but I do know that there could be things that read as gold that aren't gold. Is that a possibility here? No. So it's too strong of a signal? Yeah. So there's no false read possibility. Not at all.

You know there's gold there. I know there's gold there. And probably silver. And it's probably coins, probably old, you know, gold dollars and 1800s. Wow. Like that cash they just found, it's probably worth. A couple million dollars. Wow.

All I want to do is pay off my truck in my house. That's probably enough. That's all I want. Maybe get a cow, you know, a couple more chickens, some more pigs, you know. You're getting out of control tone. I know. That's all I want. Like, you know, I just, very simple.

I just want to be a very simple life. I'm trying to bring it down a couple of notches and just live very simplistic. Exactly. Well, let's go. No, I'm dead serious, though. We're coming up very soon. That's awesome. Yeah, for sure.

I just got, because my schedule is obviously slammed. Like, I had somebody who, shout out to DeepShare podcast. He asked me to come on a show to record. And in the time frame he asked, I literally don't have the time. Yeah. And so, and I'm looking at my schedule right now, right here. I'm just like, we're going to make it happen. I just got to figure out how, you know.

Before winter. Definitely. Beth, definitely. Before you, before you even stop thinking about this conversation, we'll be there. But, okay, so these are some of the treasures that are within range of where you live. Some are ancient legends that you have tracked down. Some are things that you stumbled across. not to mention the treasure of the Native American artifacts

that have been found in the area. You found, you excavated a giant skeleton. You were there. You laid eyes on the same. Did you touch it? Did you lay your hands on it? No. How close did you get to it?

Oh, right next to it. Jeez. But yeah, we... It had to be massive. Yeah. Yeah. massive. I heard that

a skeleton that's eight feet tall, let's say, like the actual body is even more physically imposing than what the skeleton even would be

because of the meat that on the bones and things like that. So with the skeleton that you saw, let's just talk about the shoulders. Like,

how wide were the shoulders would you say? It's hard to say because it was just bones and it had those copper hammered copper plates across it

and it wasn't like it was it was kind of articulated not like laying flat kind of in a weird position shifted over time I'm assuming but the bones were you can just tell by looking at the bones that they were bigger you know like more

dense Yeah, more. More volume? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. That's why, I mean, did you have any gauge at, I mean, this is, you were young, high school, I think you said.

Like, did you have any gauge as the historic nature of what you were looking at? Not at all. No. At what point did you start realizing, wow, that was actually something unique. It wasn't until years, years and years later, like maybe late 90s, maybe. Really? that I started doing research, no, mid-90s, into the burial mounds and the giant bones found all over, you know, the Ohio Valley. Yeah.

Wow. Okay. Yeah. And a lot of those stories from the people, the natives, were like, we didn't build these. They were here when we got here. Right. Yeah. That's something that I've heard, which just blows history out of the water.

Yeah. You know? What's your take on the whole giant skeleton, giant beings thing? I mean, like, I come from a very biblical Nephilim perspective. What's your take on all that stuff? Well, that's, I mean, that's definitely a theory and could be possible. And if you, like, you know, I've studied religion and ordained. And so I've studied all these different various religions and mythologies, and there's a common thread that runs through all of them.

And one of that is of giants or, you know, I think it's a real, real phenomenon. And I don't, you know, I think they were probably, you know, there's Native American stories about how there was a war between them and the giants. these giants were cannibals and um lovelock cave before this is before lovelock really yeah this was this was in the east coast algonquin like uh happened i think ohio river maybe or maybe maybe north but somewhere around there they they talked about having to fight these this giant tribe and uh you know eventually they wiped them out because they were killing and and eating their tribe members. And so there's, there's, and then Lelot Cave, there's that story too, you know.

So there's plenty of indigenous stories about it. So it's not just a biblical story, which it is, of course. And then if you go to a lot of those biblical stories or even older, older, older stories from Sumer or Rick or, or sometimes they're just common shared ideas. Like there's a collective conscious and a collective unconscious, you know. So those ideas can, you know, have developed in many different religions

and many different mythologies. I think there's something to it, you know. Yeah. So when you think back at that giant skeleton, you found... I think it was one of the older race of people that... You're not thinking it was just a really tall person. No. No. I think it was of those people that the natives were saying that were there before them, they built the mountains. With what it was wearing, it seems like it was buried like that. So it must have been maybe a respected warrior? Yeah. He was probably a chief.

a shaman. Gotcha. Probably. Because you talk about the armored plates in the front. How old is that? How far does that go?

You said it was bronze, right? Copper. Copper. And it's Great Lakes copper. It came from, you know, you can analyze and find out where the copper came from. It came from the Great Lakes. And they found these, you know,

Stone Age and Neolithic copper mines up in the Great Lakes on some of these islands. And the path, you know, goes straight from there, right up to the Great Lakes. So there's a lot of trade, you know. So this excavation that you were involved in,

is it documented somewhere or is it lost in time? I've got all the documentation. It was published, so somewhere it's published, you know, academically published. I've run across one other guy from the college who knows about it and has, Maybe, I don't know if I saw a website or a story somewhere where he was talking about it. Okay.

So. Wow. Because, I mean, I was just thinking like all these other stories that come out with these giant skeletons, it's like, oh, no, it never happened. You know, is this one of those cases where I got somebody who's like, oh, I was there, you know? The skull ended up in possession of one of the, it may have been a geologist at the college. And then he passed away and it ended up in a safe deposit box somewhere. I've got the correspondence. I'd have to go over it again.

It's been 20 years since I've read it. But I think they tracked down the skull was the only part they could track down. It was in the wife safe deposit box somewhere. What? Yeah. The wife of the guy that ended up with the skull, He was at the college. It was in a safe deposit box?

When he left it to her, I think she put it in a safe deposit box somewhere. Yeah. I've got all the correspondence between the college and D.C. and Smithsonian trying to locate this. Yeah, it's pretty interesting. Oh, this is a treasure hunting in itself. Yeah, just the research. Can you imagine if you could, track down and it's not locked up in some kind of museum or something.

Somebody has... Yeah. I'd have to look at that again and see where it ended up. I don't even want it. Like, can I just come and visit it? You know? Yeah, right. I just want to look at it.

Yeah. Yeah, that would be cool. I like you. I like you. This is... This is really cool. And Jack's okay. You know, he's okay.

He's over there switching the cameras. He's doing all right. Wow, this is amazing. Okay, so we covered a lot of ground here. And we got out of order, but it's okay. This is just really, it just evolved. I want to talk about these three other things here on the table that you got out, though. These are Native American paint pots.

What's a paint pot? Like, they put paint in it to... Oh, to put it on their face. So they would make a paint and then they would wipe it on their face. Yeah, like take some red ochre. or some iron oxide, you know, and add a little water to it. What's this made out of?

Is it like a, is like a, a play or something? I think this is, this is pottery, I believe. Really? Yeah. I think this was, I think this was just a rock that they chipped at. Yeah. Wow. And this is a, it's called a,

archaeologists call it a shaft straightener. When you're making arrows. And you want your shaft to be straight. You can take your shaft and run it through here to make it perfectly straight, different sizes. Incredible. And then they would run a piece of rawhithe through it and wear it like a gorgut. It would be like somebody carrying something to sharpen your knife with today. Yeah, like a functional tool.

That was, wow, can I see that? Yeah. So, wow. And I have quite a few of these, and I've got quite a few of these, too. I have so many stone tools that archaic stone tools, it's ridiculous. Hundreds. At your house? Yeah.

Really? Yeah. That you've found? Every time I go, I find them. I've never found anything cool in my entire life. I had a friend once. Him, his brother, and his younger brother, older brother and younger brother, all three of them could just walk outside and find four-leaf clovers.

Yeah. I've never found one. Yeah. I'd be with them and they're finding them. And I couldn't find them. I had a friend that could walk out and go, I'm going to find an arrowhead today or I'm going to find a spear point. And then he'd walk out and look down and there'd be one. How do you do that?

But yeah, there's this creek below my house. There's two. There's one on either side. And I live on the top of the mountain. But the one side is where the city. silver mine stuff is and the other side is where the cave and all that is and that's where I find most of the stone tools and Between the silver mine and the cave on the creek that that runs through the cave that's where you find most of the artifacts Well and that's not even mentioning bone hollow

What's that? That is where in the 1600s a slave ship landed in Virginia and brought smallpox and it traveled over to Kentucky eventually and all these natives in this tribe got it and they all ended up in this one hollow

and died hundreds of natives and they call it bone hollow because you find the bones nobody really knows about it other than there's a historical report of this family who settled that property would take their wagon down by the creek and load it full of bones,

drive it back to the top of their property, spread them on their fields, and set them on fire for fertilizer. He was like, yeah, I never wanted to eat anything out of that garden. Oh my gosh. Are you serious? But the thing is, you know, they had all of their possessions with them, and they died there. So think of all the different artifacts that you could just, in this one little area, that you could just, and I want to go there, and I've been trying to get somebody to go with me.

I'm going to call this episode, I've been trying to find somebody to go in. How far, is it within a five-minute drive-in-the-house? Yes, yeah. This is unbelievable. I don't even know if we covered that on this show. I'll just get people at the end of this segment here. I'll say you typically don't travel more than five minutes from the house because of the accidents you've been involved in. And it's just kind of, I guess, more like PTSD type thing.

And I've spent my whole life on the road traveling and... Not that interested in... Yeah, I'm just... You got everything you need five minutes from the house. I mean, like... Yeah. I don't have any reason really to leave, you know, my county. It's unbelievable.

Unbelievable. I feel the same way. I drive from my house to hear 20 minutes. That's pretty much as far as I go. I don't go into Knoxville. I just go back and forth. But that's different than you. Wow, man.

Wow. This is unbelievable. So I think this would be a good spot to transition into the overtime. And we'll get into some of these wild experiences. And we'll see where we go with the overtime. And we'll see what parts we say for the members episode on Thursday. But we can talk about some of the Bigfoot stuff. Yeah, we definitely talk about the Bigfoot stuff.

We haven't even touched about how did you get employed at a deep underground military base? That's a funny story. That's a funny story. I bet it is. But we'll get into the cave talk. We'll just see where things go. And we haven't even touched on the UFOs really. I mean, we did a little bit, but the, the, the orbs and the portal and all that stuff.

So, dude, I appreciate you sharing all this stuff. I just feel like this, whatever it's been two and a half hours, three hours, it's been just going by in a blur. It doesn't seem like it. And I feel like, did we even touch on anything? Yeah, we had to have touched on something. But what? I don't know. We just, we'll have to listen back and figure it out.

Fantastic. All I know is I'm very excited right now, so it must have been a good conversation. And if people don't like it, I liked it. It is what it is. But I appreciate you being here. If you're a member right now, you can just switch over to the overtime segment on the website or on the app and listen to more conversation. If you're not a member, I really appreciate you sticking around for this long conversation and having a good, hopefully a good time listening to us, chit-chat back and forth about his wild life that he's been living and that he has lived. And we are going to dive more into that in the overtime.

But if you're not a member, it's cool. We appreciate you being here either way. And until next week, stay safe, take care, and remember, the truth will set you free. first he'll piss you off. Bye.