The Confessionals - 580: Disturbing The Upside Down

Episode Date: September 12, 2023

In Episode 580: Disturbing The Upside Down we are joined by David who unravels an experience he went through that seems to have echoes of the popular show "Stranger Things." David had reached out to the show to tell of a disturbing incident from his high school years in Trinidad, Colorado. He shares that he and a group of friends had dared to enter the abandoned Catholic school, unwittingly unleashing an unknown malevolent force that would soon plague them and those connected to them.The situation grew so dire that it ultimately required the intervention of a specialist recommended by the Catholic Church. This expert was brought in to reinstate the boundaries and restore a sense of control over the malevolent entity that had been unleashed. Today we talk about this situation and the aftermath of an exploration gone awry, where the line between reality and the supernatural blurs in "Disturbing The Upside Down."The Confessionals Members App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZBecome a member for AD FREE listening and EXTRA shows: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinCome Meet Tony:LIVE SHOW in Gatlinburg, TN!Tickets: https://bit.ly/3IC4IkxWatch Expedition Dogman: https://bit.ly/3CE6Kg0SPONSORSThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give onlinetherapy a try at betterhelp.com/yup and get on your way to being your best self.GET Private Internet Access: piavpn.com/confessionalsGET EMP Shield: empshield.com Coupon Code: "tony" for $50 off every item you purchase! Listen to this episode for more information! Link: bit.ly/3YaMD1NGET SIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsGET Hello Fresh: hellofresh.com/confessionals60 Promo Code: "confessionals50" for 50% off plus the first box ships for free!!!Get Emergency Food Supplies: www.preparewiththeconfessionals.comGET FIRSTLEAF: tryfirstleaf.com/confessionalsCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] to the Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/the-newsletterMAILING ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIDiscord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelAre you a military veteran struggling with thoughts of suicide?Contact Watchman Readiness Corps for REAL help. A veteran-run organization that is designed to help through hands-on survival training.Website: wrc.vetEmail: [e-mail]: [phone]Instagram: wrc_survivalFacebook: colbywrcvetOUTRO MUSICJoel Thomas - Walking In My SkinYouTube | Apple | SpotifyInstagram: @vanteslamusic

Hey, everybody, before we get into this week's episode, I just want to remind you, we are going live in Gatlinburg, Tennessee on September 30th with me, yours truly, and Hillbilly Horror Stories. We are doing a live event at the Black Bear Inn in Suites in Gatlinburg. Now, this is a venue that we upgraded to because we sold out the previous one. So if you're one of those people who thought you missed out on the tickets or you've been wanting tickets and you drug your feet, all you got to do is hit the link in the description of this episode. It will take you to the ticket page where you get all your information. But this is going to be a fun time on. September 30th. We are going to do a four-hour event for you guys at the Black Bear Inn and Suites. Hope to see you there. Now, let's get to this week's episode. Merkel. Media. This was all circulating around the base that a giant had been killed, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, boning fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. When he came over to me, Dude, he slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen.

And he starts running and firing at this giant. With a giant moves, he's got a spear in one hand and he's running really fast. And spears, Dan, holds them up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face, they basically decapitated. And I look over and there are two small gray entities. And they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed. I reached my hand into this bush, and I touch air. Couldn't breathe and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster.

Yep. Welcome to the show, everybody listening to The Confessionals Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here. If you've a crazy, wild experience you want to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is Contact at theconfessionalspodcast.com. That's Contact at theconfessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website to confessionalspodcast.com.

hit the contact section and you can reach me that way as well. Either way works for me, just get a hold of me. If you want more shows on a weekly basis, we have memberships for that. All you got to do is go to the confessionalspodcast.com slash join. Become a member. You get access to all the Thursday members shows. Get the Tuesday shows ad free and access to overtime content when it's available, all waiting for you as a member to the Confessionals podcast. So if that interests you, go to the confessionalspodcast.com, hit join and become a member today. Now, we have have a fantastic conversation awaiting for us today. We have David coming on the show. David, sir, how are you doing? Not too bad, Tony. How about you? Man, I'm doing good.

So, listen, you contacted us and this whole email thing, man, we get a lot of emails. And I, my wife handles the brunt of all the emails. She gets a lot of the counter. She reads through them, brings them to me. and a few weeks ago, I think it was last week, I was reading through the emails for this coming week's interviews. And when I saw yours, man, typically I will just, I'll email people a day before and say, hey, you're still good for tomorrow, you know, making sure they're good to go. Your email, when I, I remember Lindsay talking to me about it. And I was like, yeah, definitely, get him on the show for sure. When I read the email for the first time last week, I was like, oh, shoot. And that's what I was like, yeah.

why I text you, I was like, hey, you're still good next week, right, man? Like, I need you to show up. Like, because it always works that way. It's like, the ones that they're like, oh my gosh, that's, that's going to be a crazy interview. And they're like, hey, man, I just don't feel comfortable. I'm like, no, you know, so. So close. Yeah, so close, but so far. So I've been putting the pressure on you for about a week, week and a half now. And I was delighted when I logged into this recording studio and you were already waiting to talk to me. I was like, nice, let's do this. So I'm glad you're here. You contacted this about this wild experience you had involving a Catholic school that had been shut down. You and your friends,

essentially from what I understand, broke in. And when, you know, I don't know if you were going there for ghost hunting, but when I watched the video, it seemed like you were ghost hunting. But there's a lot of mysterious things circulating around the closure. the school to what you guys found in the school. And I thought it was kind of bonkers. And I'm excited to hear the story firsthand from you, man. So what I want you to do is just kind of share with the people why you were going there with the background behind it and lead them into this night of bizarreness and what ensued from there. Yeah, absolutely. So when I was in high school, my, my parents retired. We were originally living in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, where we are from.

And my parents wanted to just kind of have like what they thought was this picturesque kind of Western retirement. So I was a freshman in high school still. And my sister was either in like sixth or seventh grade. So foundational like paradigm shift for us most definitely to just kind of pick up and move. So where where they retired to was just outside of Trinidad, Colorado. And it is probably like 20. minutes up in the mountains since we were still in high school and middle school and they were our parents we obviously were moving with them but the school up there it just wasn't really

either one of our vibe so during this move our grandma actually moved with us as well and she moved to Trinidad proper so like first half of a year up there we experienced that school and then kind of said you know mom and dad there's a couple other choices for school in town. We kind of quasi discussed us with grandma and she said, you know, if you guys want to stay here and go to school here, that's totally fine. We can make that arrangement. And my parents agreed. So all of the options that were, which were not many, but of the options that were available to us, we actually elected to go to the Catholic school in town. Now, the actual Catholic school, the building that was, the official Trinidad Catholic, which that is, by the way, what it's called Trinidad Catholic, had at that point in 2006 been shut down for about two, two and a half, three somewhere in that scale years. But the entity that was the school remained. They created a new school called Holy Trinity Academy, which was based on the Trinidad State Junior College campus. There was just a

kind of a civil engineering department building that was available for lease. And that's basically where we went to school, our entire high school experience. But our first year, you know, it's exciting. It's a new school. You're making new friends. We're in a new place, so we don't really know anyone. But it was a very tiny school. So it was not difficult to kind of get assimilated and start making those new connections. So my first year there would have been as a sophomore. And just within that first year, there was a lot of life experiences that someone that's, you know, in the 10th grade is going through in Colorado, most people start driving at around that time. I wanted to say it was like you could get your learners permit at 15, which was much earlier than I ever remembered in Pennsylvania. So that equaled freedom, right?

So we bend those rules a little bit, learners permit, you're supposed to have an adult with you, but it's a small town. There's nothing to do at night. You know, just be safe. Don't be stupid. And so, again, touching back on that, you know, freedom aspect, we would explore around a lot. And I don't know, like, what your high school experience was in my head. This is how everyone spent their Friday and Saturday nights if you weren't at a party. It was just driving around, you know, just kind of being jackasses, listening to music, meeting friends in random places.

Yeah. So those like random, you know, car trips would take us to a lot of parts of town that either we never had been to for any real reason or we're just curious and bored. But the one place that was in the just smack dab center of town that we'd pass all the time was the old Trinidad Catholic building. And I had a lot of, I would say, curiosity about it because, you know, you're young, you're excited to make new friends. I honestly was very excited to go to the school. I just felt really at home there. I felt that it was just a really good environment. So I had a lot of questions based on like, wow, I'm having such a great experience here.

What happened to the school? Was it financial? It doesn't look like it's in a state of disrepair or that it's falling down or is condemned. So I started asking around. And a lot of the friends that I made, not all of them, but a lot of them had spent their entire life in the Catholic school system. So they went to school there. So I probably had 15 or 20 close friends that could answer all of my questions about this specific building. And a lot of the kids, and I say kids now, I was a kid then too, but in retrospect, right,

all the kids would basically just defer to saying that, well, it was something of an interpersonal conflict that, you know, the Catholic diocese shut it down. And I never really had an answer. Also, I should give these kids who were telling me this, their due credit of saying they probably have like third hand, fourth hand, fifth hand information. Maybe their parents don't even know if they're not involved in the school board or anything, you know, a governing body to that, to that respect. So I probably spent like a good solid week just, pushing the question, pushing the question. And I finally just had a conversation with the school secretary who just lived right up the street from me. And the reason I'm saying all of this that

this melds together is I remembered it was around December. And December was important for us because since she lived right up the street, her husband was one of like the largest Christmas decorators in town, not just at his house, but he decorated a couple of his customers, houses as well, and his hair salon. So I would spend a lot of time working directly with him. So I found the opportunity one day in December to kind of just have a conversation, her and I, and say, you know, I don't really have any history here. So I don't really have any foundational basis to say, tell me exactly what happened, but I am curious, what occurred, what went on. And she actually was the first one to give me the most honest direction of who to talk to.

Instead of just repeating the same things that I had heard before with a different spin, she just kind of paused and said, and I don't want to name people. So I'm just going to say, like, we're going to call this person person one. She had indicated for what you're asking for. go talk to person one. She will know exactly what happened. And I kind of pushed that a little more. Can you give me like any reason?

Is she involved in this? And she said, you got to just talk to her, man. She'll tell you everything you want to know. So a couple days later, I think it was, I was,

because this person's husband was also our basketball coach, our football coach, and our physics teacher. So really close to them, really close to their family. I found myself over at their house that we all lived in the same neighborhood. And since we were friends, it was not unusual for us to be there. So went over and I inquired what had gone on.

And she, like a switch was just immediately standoffish, like almost to the point of yelling and dismayed like all of, she said, well, it's just rumors and this and that. It's like, I don't really know what rumors you're. referring to. I don't have much information to either support said rumors or to refute them. I just want to know what happened. I'm very curious about this. She didn't answer my question, but her daughter was in the room. So when she left, we had a whole conversation about what the official version of the story was and then what the suspected, I'll call it driving factors behind that was. And the official version is that the diocese thought that the school was no longer serving its purpose. I do not know

insofar as what that means. Does that mean that you're academically not performing? I do not know if that means enrollment was down to the point that it became a financial issue. So like officially, it's still very unclear to me as to the official reason. I through anecdotal sources, right, just conversations back and forth after that with person one and her daughter have pretty much landed on the point that it sounds like there were all kinds of interpersonal school staff, school governing staff, and then the diocese's just conflict and argument, which as a kid, it's kind of like we argue all the time, but for it to like shut down an institution, it seemed strange.

It still seems strange to me now if I did not know and have this experience in this building that we had. So I just kind of left it at that. And then I remember the following summer. Things are getting warmer. We're getting able to go back outside and, you know, this kind of explore again. I had a conversation with one of my friends, this girl to backtrack when we originally moved here. spent like two to three months at the school closest to where my parents lived, I actually met her there. Her aunt at the end of that school year actually went to work for this Catholic school.

So we remained friends through that summer into that December and we realized we are both transferring to this school at the same time. This is crazy. So I had like this, you know, kind of like right arm person to go on this adventure with me. that's the person that I had this conversation with about the school. And she said, I asked my aunts about this. And my aunt said that she gets a bad feeling from the school. And I inquired, well, what does that mean? I don't know.

I'm going to need more context to the substance of that, bad vibe, bad feeling. She had indicated that her aunt knew that someone named, I don't even know this gentleman's last name. It could not even be his real name. but I've heard it twice from two different people that I was not having the conversation with at the same time. So if it's a rumor that his name was Harley, then it's, you know, small town, deep running misinformation. But according to several people after I heard this from my friend and then actually the math teacher was the second person that named him, this guy had probably been unwell, probably had some mental health untreated issues.

And it doesn't really surprise me, honestly, that he was not helped, that it wasn't addressed, just because my experience in my Catholic school experience, to reuse that word, was very hush, hush, you know, if there's something wrong, well, God will fix it or just pray it away. It's like, yeah, okay, but, you know, let's explore this issue a little deeper.

can we apply some science and kind of come to a solution. This is speculation on my part. But again, that is how I believe this probably went unnoticed. And the very short synopsis version of this is that Harley had done something in the cafeteria that involved a pentagram. He had evidently broken into the school, I presume largely, in probably the exact same manner that we were able to get into the school. school. But as my math teacher explained this to me, he had broken into the school late at night, and the next morning, the janitor, who was the first person in, found a pentagram on the cafeteria floor with what he said was a bunch of wax. So my mind thought, okay, he had candles. He just

let them burn out. He had cleaned it up. He had scraped the wax off of the floor. I do not know what he used to draw this pentagram, I presume paint, spray paint, but I don't know. I see this because the points that always sticks in my mind of, well, you cleaned it. Yeah, we just, we cleaned it off the floor. Well, my, in the back of my head, a red flag goes up because I am not in tune with anything occult, anything that would fit the avenue of what the aforementioned was. But my first thought is, listen man if that stuff is real and if that works not that not that i'm saying me sitting here in front of you if at that point it was if if if it was real i don't think that you can just kind of like wipe it off like with windex or whatever and then if that was like a door then it's

closed i don't know that but i've often thought that so i thought okay that's weird well the story continues then well harley got expelled because he uh had brought a bomb to school in an old. Do you know what a coal miners' lamp is? It just basically kind of... I can imagine. Yeah, it's just kind of like a very... It's a very thick,

kind of like how iron pipe where when people make pipe bombs, very thick walled cast, essentially. So he had that thing, which was, you think of almost like a Coleman lantern, the same size, filled with like nails and shrapnel and gunpowder. And he didn't detonate it, thank God, but it was discovered.

And that was like a series of what I'm building up to is like a series of strange and just kind of beyond mischievous in the last example events that finally led to the closure of the school. Now, I confess there are more things that happen at the hand of Harley that I don't remember. I didn't write the stuff down. I just remember having lots of conversations with people about the subject. And had I known in hindsight now that his story would have been so important to what we experienced, I probably would have approached this with a far more fastidious and record-keeping approach just to kind of say, well, this is what we heard and had this documented. So what I wrote down on this paper before we sat down this morning was the best of what I could remember that wasn't actually on video.

So after we had this conversation, my friend and I and then my math teacher who kind of backed this story up, we got the idea that we should go into the school and see if there's anything to be documented, found, any evidence to support this. And when I say we, I should probably tread lightly with the word we because it was her idea. And I thought it sounded like fun. I had experiences in the past that I was, I guess, exposed to certain things that I had an open mind enough to the point that this, okay, if we take a camera and if we approach this scientifically, that was my kind of position on this. then I think it would be either interesting or it would be important one day. I guess it kind of was important. I mean, we're talking about this now, and I was able to catch this on video.

So we tagged along, and we got a group of about, I had one, two, three, four of us that I remember that I wrote down here on this little trip. And we had planned it because the store that was like the Trinidad, Catholic, diocese, whatever thrift store, they called it like their Roman store, operated out of the north side of the building, which was kind of like a garden level basement. Well, it was nothing for two of us to go in there, distract the two older gentlemen at the front desk,

and then literally just walk up the steps into the rest of the building. And it was not any more complicated than that. It was literally how we set the stage to go in that night, she had distracted them. I literally just walked up the first floor, went all the way across the building, so they couldn't hear me messing around with the windows. And then I went down into the cafeteria,

which was garden level, and just unlocked two of the windows, went back out the door and said, all right, great, you know, we're set. And that evening, I recall going out there, and we had, I had to Google this because it was the most simple, little camera. It was a JVC, a Vario. And it was just like this tiny little handheld thing smaller than

your iPhone. But that's what we, that's what we took in there. And for like the first five minutes that we went into the building, it was just the flight or fight response. You know, your adrenaline was pumping. We're not supposed to be here. You know, we're all under the age of 18, but like, we could get arrested. And, you know, every footstep that is creepy, every door that's making a sound, you just freeze. Like, could they hear that outside? Could someone know that we're in here? And then obviously, after about five minutes, realize no one is, no one's paying attention.

You know, just keep your flashlights down. Watch yourself by the windows and just, you know, press on. It was very disorganized. It was, as the video kind of eludes to, it was just kind of a, of wandering around creeping through room to room. Only one person of the four-person group, including myself, only one person had gone to school there. So I had a pretty good map of where we were going.

Like, well, what do you guys want to see? You want to go to the library? Do you want to go to the cafeteria? We can go to where the pool used to be. There wasn't really a consensus on where we were going. It was just like, great, thanks. And we kind of used this person to say, where are we now? not necessarily take us to.

So kind of used them as our little guide map. And we probably spent a good, I'd say 20 minutes in the building before we experienced anything. And in retrospect, I do not know if the excitability and that almost like effervescence that you build off of each other in a situation like that, muted or masked, perhaps anything else that we experienced when we were in there. But who knows, right? Total speculation.

The only thing that I do know is using that video as reference. Minute 19, second, 11, this was completely unintentional. Where that camera is set down in the chapel. I don't know, I don't recall why it was set down. I'm not really sure. I just remember feeling weird in there. And weird is such a nondescript term. But it was a feeling that I had never felt before.

I struggle to describe it, Tony, because it would be as if someone told you to describe a color that you've never seen before. And it's like, how would you do that? It's so foreign to you, but there's something in you that is just, just able to pick up something so foreign. I struggle to this day to describe that feeling. It wasn't fear. It wasn't excitement.

It was almost if like complacentness and meditation had like an ethereal, I don't know, it was very odd. So what was really only about 10 seconds or so of setting that camera down, I don't remember who took a picture, But in the video, you can see where the camera gets set down and we're behind the camera. We're over here doing something. Well, someone takes a picture. Also, why I don't remember.

But in that split second, you get an idea of what the camera is looking at because all you can see at that moment was just a little tiny. It is not an orb. If you were to just look at it, it would look like it's one frozen, but it's just a light from the camera pointing at the wall. But in that instant of the flash, you get an idea of, okay, cool, we're looking at the back. of the chapel wall, there's a closet door, and that door is just barely kind of propped open. Right after that flash, right after that flash, you can see this orb come out of that door and disappear into the top of the frame. Now, where the YouTube video falls short and does us a disservice to this discussion is, like I said, I went out of my way to not review this

and not think about it for many years. I didn't realize that it had cut that off by about an inch at the top. But what was beyond describable of fear when I reviewed this outside of the building. And I'm only going to touch on this because if I don't touch on it and then come back to it, I'm going to go way off on a tangent, was just absolutely horrifying. Because what is cut off in the video is where it goes up like shutters, on an old camera or even a new like cannon mark whatever the hell my husband uses for wedding photography opens and it it's two balls of light and then closes and then the orb goes off to the side

and just to pause the what happened in the building that night story to talk about that for a moment I upon review of it was like I said it was horrifying it scared the ever living shit out of me but immediately I recognize it as a face and it didn't necessarily ring true to like a human face because going back to where you saw the flash on the wall, you realize where you saw that if it was truly against the wall. I have no depth perception on this. I'm assuming it was against the wall. It had to be seven, eight feet tall.

And if you've ever seen, I always always describe it this way to people. But if you've ever seen, like, how some tribes will carry buckets or they'll carry things on their shoulder by way of having, like, a wooden stick or something across their back and it balances the load, it was almost like a capital T, like a stick figure person. And I guess I thought at the time that it was just a really tall person. It was scary to see this on the video in post-review. but I had just assumed it was a person. And I should also specify, I didn't see any of this in person. I didn't see an orb.

I didn't hear a sound. There was nothing. It was only on video. Seconds later, and it looks like what do I have written down here in my notes? So that was at 1911. At 1914, my other friend behind us starts just crying profusely,

and she's saying that she feels like She's burning up. I recall kind of like turning over to my side and looking back to her. All of us still at this moment are just barely out of frame and about to come in frame because the camera gets picked up and aimed back towards her. I recall seeing or at least thinking, thinking I saw something out of the peripheral of my eye as I turned this way back over to look at her. Obviously all of a sudden I really wasn't thinking about that because we're trying to be quiet.

Like, what are you doing? What's going on? she pulls up her leg and there are these scratches going all the way up her leg. I have written down here, yeah, 1914. What I thought I saw out of the corner of my eye in real time being there was confirmed at minute 20 and three seconds. Because as that camera goes back across, there's some kind of, I don't know what it is. It's some kind of apparition that only comes up to a. about her hip.

So maybe three feet, maybe four feet tall. But it almost looks like if a person was upright, like the Sims, and just hopped towards and then hopped away completely out of frame. And just before going out of frame, just like dissolving into smoke. So thought, okay, this is kind of odd. I had made the comment to the group at that point. Maybe we should go. Maybe we should get out of here.

we actually stayed for about another 15, 20 minutes before we said, all right, that's enough. We've got, you know, almost a full memory card at that time. I think it was like several gigabytes. So nothing that would have even permitted us to continue recording. So we left. Everybody would just like, wow, you know, what a trip. That was crazy. This and that.

I gave the camera back to my friend and was like, I don't have an SD slot reader for this. Can you take this and upload it and we'll check it out tomorrow? Well, the next night, I remember vividly. I think the most profound, I think the most profound feeling of anything of this whole experience was how I felt when I watched the video for the first time. She had brought it over to me. I was standing on the front deck of one of our friends' houses. She had just pulled up unannounced because she knew where we were.

It was Saturday night. We weren't at home. We were over here. So she came over and said, I have to show you something. And she had like this little, I just remember it as being like, you fucking loaded it onto this. Like you, how can you even process it on this? It was like the generation one of when Chromebooks first came out.

And she put it right on the table. And I was standing there drinking a beer. And she hit play. And it started at. around 1911. And when I saw that thing fly out and go up into the ceiling and then what I again, presume where eyes just start to illuminate, I had a reaction. Like if you've seen the movie's signs when he's under the stair closet and he sees that

on the newscast and he just keeps backing up, just mortified, I remember it because I almost went backwards over the railing of the deck. It just took me by such surprise, but it was surprise mixed with just this feeling of terror. And I don't know, Tony, if this is where it started, because to reiterate, I was standing there in person when it happened. Like, if it was right in front of me, as indicated on the video, I presumed I would have had that same kind of, you know, absolute just horror and terror feeling. But something about seeing it on the video. was just, it shocked me to my core. I remember just all night kind of feeling nervous to the point and just kind of like

you feel shaky. This went away. I didn't do this for three hours, but it was kind of that feeling throughout my body thinking, what the hell was that? I fully expected to go in there and have absolutely nothing happened. Just be like, well, shucks. On to the next place, you know, for asinine adolescent adventures. but I kept thinking about it and I kept thinking about it.

And she had showed that video only to the people that went, as she reported to me, she said she had showed it only to those of us that went in there. So about this is fuzzy in my memory because so much stuff has happened. And to be honest with you, I was kind of nervous to talk to you about this because I had put so much energy into not thinking about this, into not considering any aspect of this actually happening.

But it did. So it's like maybe it won't be as disturbing to me to revisit it if we try to think about it as like an objective scientific examination of what we saw. You're at the wrong place for scientific examination. I know, I know. it bites me in the ass ultimately because then there ends up being no true explanation for this other than what we all kind of thought was going to happen in the first place. But I don't know how much time went by. I know it was not a lot. I know it was brief because while this was still fresh

in our memory and while we were still excited about it, we decided to plan another visit. We decided to go back in there again. Now, we had planned for all of us to go back. in, the original group to go back in. But my parents had just purchased another house. And it was out estate and they were moving to Arizona. And since my family is very small, I said, you know, how are you guys going to move? And they said, well, we're selling the house furnished. We're only going to be taking a couple things. But we just need to load up a truck. So I said, I'll go with you. We'll make the drive down. I'll spend it. I think it was going into the summer because I remember doing this. I remember doing this early on in the year. The return visit, I know for a fact,

was June of 2009. So this must have been like end of April or something. I don't know. It's not important. I'm falling down a hole. But I had to go help them. So I had, it just kind of like begged her to wait. Wait for me until I get back. I want to go back in. If something like that actually is there, I think we need to probably take preventative precautionary, you know, steps, whatever that may be. We need to do some homework on this first. I'm curious. I think we should go back, but we need to do this intelligently and we need to make sure that

we're not going to be having something latched on, pissing something off. I don't know what this is. So I don't wish to have any of us befall harm, right? I had gone to Arizona and the next day she had texted me and said, we're going in this weekend. And I thought, oh, my God, no, please just wait. please just wait. I want to go. What, what have you done? Have you looked this up? Like, what precautions are you taking? Are you taking crucifixes? Like, so I don't really remember her

response to that. I just remember like immediately kind of going into like checklist mode. Like, well, did you do this? And I don't remember what she said. But that night, I have only ever had an out of body experience once ever. I would love to be able to say I had, you know, like, I've seen this shit and I've seen that. I only ever had one. And it was that night. I remember laying in bed, if you call it a bed. We were just getting the house set up. So it was probably just like a mattress in a room that I elected I was going to sleep in. I remember laying in bed and I was laying on my back. And I just kind of remember closing my eyes. No one remembers falling asleep, right? No one really actually remembers the moment you fall asleep. Remember waking up. But you can kind of feel yourself

getting comfortable and kind of like, okay, I'm not stressed. I don't think I'm going to have trouble sleeping tonight. That's probably like the precipice of beginning to fall asleep. I just remember laying in bed and like closing my eyes just for a second and like a weight just pushing on my body. I don't, I don't have that happen any other time, nor have I experienced that outside of like having a weighted blanket, but just kind of like sinking into the bed. And just like, snapping my fingers, all of a sudden I was inside of the school again. And at first, it was terrifying because it wasn't a dream that was a scary dream. And it's a scary dream because someone is trying to stab you.

The fear of what is about to happen is scary. It was scary because it was as if it was a science fiction movie, where all of a sudden I'm out of my body and I'm in a place that I'm very cognitive, cognitive or whatever the word I'm trying to say here is of where I am. So I just kind of thought, maybe if I just stand here, this isn't real. Maybe if I just stand here, I'm going to wake up. Nothing will happen. And I don't know how long it was.

But in my head, it was like a solid three, four, five minutes of just standing there thinking, I'm going to wake up. I'm going to wake up. And I didn't. So I thought, okay, maybe it's a dream. Maybe it's just a dream. And if I think about it like that, I can't get hurt. It's just nonsense in my head.

So, okay, I kind of calm down a little bit. That kind of flighter fight response, adrenaline starting to kind of dissipate. And I was not very far away from where the rest of this story happened. All right. For our first sponsor today, we have First Leaf. And listen, friends, when I was a young lad and Amazon was just popping on the scene, It was like pretty much a book website, you know. And the idea of Amazon expanding and being able to sell all these home goods and all this stuff was so foreign to me because I was like,

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a.f.com slash confessions to get your first six bottles for under $8 a bottle. Try firstleaf.com slash confessionals. I was in a hallway that was right by a locked door with like kind of tutor style grid wood at the upper half above the door handle. So it was very easy to see into the room. But the door was locked. I remember kind of like trying to get to the door to open and it was a library. And I was compelled. I was not interested in going into the library, but I was compelled to go into the library. Well, the door was locked. And in my, in my head, I don't know, maybe I tried to like open the door for a couple of seconds. And something told me to just like put my hand through the door. And I'm like, I get goosebumps even telling

this story again. And I remember just kind of like stare. I wasn't even looking what I was doing. I just remember having like a thousand yard stare and just putting my hand up. And it was as if I had just like gone through the glass and turn the doorknob. So I don't know, I guess presumably it was like a bathroom door that like you lock and then like you can't open it from the outside. But if you turn it, you unlock it and the door opens. And I just remember doing that and click the door open. I don't know though or the handle unlocked, not the door open. I don't know Tony if I walked through the door or if I opened the door.

But the only, like, if this was a movie, the next frame was I was standing inside of the library. But I wasn't like in the library as like library proper. I was standing right in front of what I guess was the librarian's desk. There was a very large desk in there. And again, I was compelled to go around the side of this desk. I remember it being very well lit, which I should pause and talk about for a moment, because I don't understand this. It's entirely possible, and this is maybe also me kind of discrediting what I experienced, but it's also entirely possible. It's just like how my recall of this event paints it in my head.

But I recall there being no lights on anywhere, and there was a very, very, very faint sulfur light coming from somewhere on the other side of the building. I'm in a library. There's a hall like this. There's a door with a window. I guess I thought a little bit of light was coming in from the room that was across the hallway that had windows to where the street lights were. But the room was bright. I don't know how to describe it. So I could see what I was doing very well. I could see out in the hallway. But it was relatively actually bright. When I was in there, it was light without light, if that makes any sense. So stopping there and going to back to my point, as I'm standing in front of this desk, I go for whatever reason, around the side of it. And there was one drawer that I felt I needed to open. And I opened this drawer,

and the picture, it was like a Walmart developed picture where it had like very, very faint laser printing on the back, you know, store number, date, time, whatever. I don't remember what it said, but I remember it wasn't like an old photo. It wasn't like some Victorian photo. It was upside down and I remember just picking it up and it seemed like nothing significant at all. It was a picture of, I knew his name because we researched this later on and we confirmed that this person was someone that went to school there. It was a football uniform photo. He was just like kneeling out in the field that was just outside the school and it just looked like a school picture of him in his football uniform. And that was it.

I woke up. But it wasn't like I woke up and it was daytime. I woke up and I was still like in my clothes that I just like laid down on the bed in to relax. So that's that to me was kind of like the real world. It was like the real world connection that, yo, I mean, I guess you could have fallen asleep, right? And I guess I could have fallen asleep. But to me, since I didn't feel like I was in a dream. and I didn't like wake up and it was a morning, I always just cling to that memory thinking like,

yo, I was in there. So what takes this one step further is immediately before going to sleep, I was excited and disturbed by this. I immediately texted my friend and I said, I need you. If you're going to go in there, I'm not going to, I can't stop you. If you go in there, I want you to go and I told her where the library was or where I thought, the library was. How could I know where the library was? Where I thought the library was. And I said, it's going to have a door that, you know, gold handle, you know, paneled glass. I said, I want you to go in there and I want you to go around and I described the drawer to her. And I said, I want you to see if there's a

photo of a guy in a football uniform in that drawer. She said, why? And I said, I didn't explain to her. I literally just told her that I want you to go in there and just check it out if you guys are going to be in there for even as long as we were the first time, you'll have time to do it. The very next morning, you know, I remember thinking about this again, like just,

was that a dream? Did that actually happen? I did still text her to go do that. So I don't remember, this is still so fuzzy. I only remember the events and it's probably insignificant to say like the next day or two days later, whenever it was.

Whenever she went back in, She just called me so excited. And she was like, there was a picture of a guy in there with a, he was wearing a football uniform and this and that. And how did you know that? Did you put that in there? And I was like, no. I mean, like, honestly, if it was me and someone told me to go do that, I would think,

you planted this in here and you just wanted me to see. But I was shocked by the fact. She was excited. But I was just absolutely shocked that it was in there. And I, Tony, I like to think of myself as being very rational. Try to think of things from every possible explanation. Is this person lying? Is this person stretching the truth a little bit?

Maybe this much of the story was true and maybe this much is, you know, added for effect. So I thought about it. I said, did you get a picture of it? She goes, not I get a picture of it, but it's on the, I got a video of it because I ain't the camera of it. I said, there we go. Okay. So if I told her to do this, this was my test to myself that I didn't tell her about.

I said, if this actually happened, it's going to be a random picture, it couldn't possibly be this guy because I have his face burned into my memory. It was so fresh. And when she sent me the video, it was that guy. It was his face. So I thought, I have no idea what this means. I don't know why was I given this. I don't know what to do with this information. I don't know how any of this correlates. But I just remember thinking about this guy for days, days. It must have been. about a week. I would just find myself, like, thinking about this guy and, like, who is he? I've got to research this when I get back. When I went back, I found out, like, who this guy was. He wasn't

connected to this, this Harley guy. I never found out why this was significant. I never found out why this mattered or why I had this experience. If I did, it's blocked out of my memory. I don't remember it, but it was the only time I've had something like that happened. And I think I would still be doubting that it actually happened if it wasn't on video. And I saw the dude's face and said, that's the guy. That's him right there. So I asked her, I said, okay, beyond the football guy, how did it go? You know, what did you guys see? What'd you do? And she said, well, there are only three of us that went in this time. She said, you, I left out a part of this story. It's not super but I'll explain momentarily.

She said, you know that closet you keep talking about on the south side of the building, the southwest corner? I said, yeah, the other side of the cafeteria. She said, well, I wanted to explore that. And she said, we went down there through the same windows that we left unlocked the first time. I don't recall if they were relocked and then they had to sneak back in and unlock and unlock them again. I don't know. Place was really loose management.

So they could have just stayed unlocked. She got in and went immediately that way to that closet. But you had to go down the steps to get to the closet. So even the second you go in, you're right above it adjacent through the floor. You've got to go down to get to it. She had indicated that the second they got to the landing of the half stair before they got all the way to the bottom, they heard footsteps coming down the steps. And she said, she said, we couldn't hide because there was nowhere to hide.

If we were in trouble, they would hear us running or creeping away to go hide somewhere. She's like, so we just froze. We didn't move. We just kind of like took the camera light and just like held it against us. So there was no light. And everybody just kind of froze. And the steps went like all the way down to the landing and then stopped. And she's like, what, there's no one here.

And like, okay, I'm not even surprised by this point. Okay, what happened? She's like, well, we just kind of stood there for like two minutes, not being afraid to breathe. Just like, number one, is it actually the police like that someone in here and were in trouble? she's like but then when nothing else happened she's like we became a little bit more alarmed because there wasn't anyone else in there so they just kind of stopped and they backtracked and they just went the direction of hearing the steps after a couple minutes when everything seemed to subside and they went along their way and I said that's the only thing that happened that was the only thing that happened pretty uneventful didn't get anything else on video but that was where the outside of the building stopped started to happen. I remember having this dream right after the first visit. This is the part that I said I forgot to include in the story. I remember having this dream of that very stairwell that there was something dark, like not like that guy is a dark guy or like, you know, like, oh, it's a dark thing.

It was, I don't know how to describe it. It was like, I had this dream of something that was like so black. I've heard this on even like in other interviews that you've done. So it must be some general theme of manifestation or something that is if we're seeing it, if we're like, it looks like it's darker than dark. Maybe it's our eyes perceiving it. I don't know. But I had this dream of something being in there that was like darker than dark.

And it brought about a kind of like sleep paralysis terror in a dream that I've only ever experienced in the dreams of this closet. And to expand on this, I remember in several of my dreams, they varied only by by approach. Like I would just be, I would be on the ground level looking at that closet over by the stairs. or in another dream, I'd be walking down the stairs towards the landing on the way to the closet. And like every step I can just feel like my heart pounding. So that was a dream that I had after the first visit, previous to their second visit. That steps, boom, boom, boom that they heard going down the steps was by the closet that I kept seeing in my dream. So to reiterate on what I asked her after the second visit, said, no, that was doing that happened, got nothing else on video.

I got nothing to show you. You want to go back again? I said, listen, I don't know what this is, but I had a weird experience at my parents' house. I have this weird dream that keeps happening. I think maybe we should just take a break for a minute.

I don't know what we're messing with. It is my opinion that if you're going to do this, you're free to do it on your own, but I don't want to accompany this. I need to think about this for a while. I need to process what might be going on in there. and I have no memory if she went back in independent of us, independent of me again after that.

But what did happen is every person in that group started to experience very, very, very bizarre, fearful, very, very fearful. It wasn't like poltergeist, like cups flipping up. It was just like absolute fearful experiences. And it went beyond the four of us. It began happening to people that we told this story, too, without the details of we saw this scary shit. And we just told them what we had done and that we thought something menacing,

something relevant or whatever was in there, started to experience this as well. I kind of just want to go through the list and tell you some of the stuff that went on here. Yeah. So my friend had just bought, and at the time was like his favorite car ever, it was such a grandma car. But I remember it to a T. He bought a 2001 black Camry. It was the most grandma car ever, but he got like vanity plates on it.

It said, TJ1, so proud of this car. I don't know, Tony, it was maybe a week after we went in there. this happened and he called me incoherently like just screaming into the phone and I'm like do you need me to come pick you up are you drunk like you know is this you what's going on he lived just just a couple minutes outside of town it was out of the city but it's so far south trinidad down there you could sneeze and if you trip you're outside of city limits right so he had about a five to 10 minute drive to go home every night. And he told us that as he was coming down the hill to turn into his neighborhood, that he thought his car got hit by a boulder. And this was not on that first

phone call because he was just absolutely freaking out, just didn't know what to say. He hadn't even gone back home and told his parents yet. The state police were still there. And I could hear her in the background be like, are you okay to drive? Like, you good? Not those exact words. but I'm paraphrasing here. What had happened was he was, as he was slowing down to turn into his neighborhood, he said it felt like a boulder had just dropped onto the back of his car, onto his trunk, you know, boom, just like this, and then just heard this god-awful screeching.

And he originally thought that something came off the mountain and hit his car. So he, you know, stopped, jumped out, freaked out, looked, there was a, there was a recession. Like if you were just like, you know, body slam your stuff. yourself onto the hood of a car or onto the trunk of a car, the kind of concave damage that you would be able to impact from your impact on that car, on the trunk of the car. And around the sides, around the driver side and the passenger side, I thought he drove through barbed wire. I was like, are you sure you haven't been drinking? Because this was, this was the first thing that

happened. Nothing else had happened for this event to seem significant at all. But again, he was one of the ones that was there. It looked as if he had gone through barbed wire on the sides of his car, starting kind of like somewhere. I remember it being near like the A column on both sides all the way back. And I remember this vividly because if you go out when we're done talking and go look at your car, go look at your truck, if you look at the back where your brake light, most cars anyway, if you look at like where your brake light is, if your brake light kind

of like wraps around, I should be doing this, if it wraps around like this to where the rest of the body of the car goes like this towards the front, there's a there's like a groove right because the light is pushed in there. I don't know if it was three or four or five or six or two. I don't know how many it was, but these lines that were like gouged and it only scratched the thing. It didn't tear the metal that went down the side of his car, caught like into where that taillight starts and just shattered the plastic.

And I don't remember why I remembered that. But I remember as I was looking at the car. I thought, that's kind of weird because, like, you know, most cars, if I'm looking at it from the sky, I'm looking down at it. Most cars are like, kind of like this, right? So if you hit a solid object, unless you go into it, but this is both sides. I don't know how you're going left and right. You'll hit it at the part of the vehicle that protrudes the furnace. It might get your mirror.

It might get like the door one, door two. But this was like it started and then just like kept holding, kept holding, kept holding, kept holding to the back. and hit that on the lens. And I always thought, that's kind of weird. Like, okay, so beyond that, and I was like, well, what the hell happened? And he had nothing more to tell me than I just told you. He said, I was driving home. Something just went boom.

And I heard the screeching, and I pulled off, and I looked. And State Patrol was out there. She had just left. So I didn't see anybody when I went out there, but I could hear her in the background when he called me. And I said, the fuck, man. and he was just absolutely mortified. He was like, I don't remember if he went home or if he came over and stayed with me and my sister that night, but he was so just shucking up because when he went out there, there's no boulder.

Number one, if you thought a boulder fell on you, that's what's scary shit. Happens around here all the time. No substance of any kind to prove what happened. So that's kind of strange. That's kind of strange. A little bit of time goes by again. I don't remember if this is a day or two or a week or two. But one of my other friends who was not there,

her mom was the vice principal of that school. So I pulled her aside and I said, hey, I want to tell you what we did and we saw some stuff. I didn't tell her what it was. I just said, we found some stuff in there that I don't know how to explain. And in today's age, if I saw that now, I'd be like, you fucking fake. This is just like a deep fake, you know.

You edited this or whatever, but at that time, man, like, there's, I don't think any of us had this skill set, nor do I think that we had the software available to us to do this. So when I told her, I said, hey, this is what we saw. And I don't know how to explain it without going into extreme detail to her. She just, man, that's like, that's weird. She was more kind of like standoffish, I think, because she was like, you guys fucking broke into the school. Really? You broke into the school than anything. but whether that was disapproval or whatever,

be neither here nor there, a couple days after I told her that, I do remember this. I saw her at school and she took me aside before basketball practice. And she said, listen, what was it in there? And I said, well, I don't really know. I have an idea of what I think it was, but I don't want to project my assumptions onto something that I,

honestly, in full discretion, know absolutely nothing about. I don't know enough about this to comment on. She said, okay, well, I got a question for you. She said, my mom has, for the last day or two, and this started, I realized, to go on for a while, has had what she described as sleep paralysis, not a dream, but like she swears to God, it's there,

that at the end of her bed, she'll look up and randomly, they'll be just this thing that's like blocking the window of her bedroom. I don't remember what her bedroom looked like, but I just remember being told that like she could see it because it was standing in the frame and that it was tall that she said it looked like it had just like huge wings. And I said, did it have like my description earlier? The only thing that I had in my head was like, you know, an African tribe, you know, like carrying water with board. And she's like, yeah, she's like, but my mom is, she's really messed up about it.

It's like this giant creature in her room. And she said, she's been waking my dad up. She'd been like screaming and waking him up. And by the time they look back, there's nothing there. And I was like, did she talk about its eyes? And she said, I don't remember, honestly, Tony, if I asked her then and she told me then, because immediately I was like, did it look like the eyes were blowing? Did it look like there were light protruding from its upper half?

And I don't remember if she told me then or if she told me again when she talked me about it, but she had then at some point confirmed, yeah, it looks like there's like these little faint light protrusions from it. And when you hear stories and you hear claims about like, I saw this in the woods or I saw this in my basement or I saw this wherever. and people talk about glowing eyes, I really don't understand how that could happen because I immediately think of like an animal, and I'm like, well, if you shine a light on, you know, a cat or a dog or whatever, yeah, it's going to glow.

But when we talk about stuff like this, there is some other kind of level of like metaphysical, I'm in front of you, but I might not be like the paper physically in front of you, that all of this has in my mind is like connected to because when she said yeah she told me that she can like see its eyes glowing and i just thought okay problem problem you weren't there why is this happening big fucking problem i i presumed i presumed that the connection was that katherine wasn't really seeing us but her mother was because her mother was vice principal of of the school is

that that's the connection in my mind because she obviously wasn't there I discussed nothing about this with her I didn't show her the video but it all of a sudden kind of like started to come like the light's starting to go off and it's like wait a minute okay did we did we upset something did we fuck around with something we weren't supposed to be doing that kind of got me curious to the point where I'm like, okay, I got to start kind of at least thinking about this. Again, earlier, when you and I started talking, I should have written this down. I should have been like, like, just a newspaper reporter about this for later. But it was more exciting than it seemed academic, right? Like I was trying to approach it rationally, but it was more exciting than anything.

So I thought, yeah, whatever, okay, keep that in mind. The next thing that happened is the other so the other girl, the one that convinced me to go in there. At first, I thought you're claiming this. It's not that I didn't believe you,

but I kind of had a few other reasons in some instances to like, yeah, okay, you might be overthinking this. That she started hearing sounds coming from her attic at night right above her bedroom. And I thought, well, your house is really old. The first thing I think of is, like, is there a raccoon up there?

Do you have mice? Do you have rats? She's like, no. It's like, it is not a skitter, pitter, patter. It is a thumping. It is a shuffling. There's something like moving up there. So I did not think very much of it.

I simply just kind of almost, almost, because I do remember it. I almost let it go in one air or not the other. And then I recall a couple days or a week or whenever this was later, I was over at her house. And it was again in the evening. And we're sitting in her in her room watching TV. And just like the step of thump that we heard repeatedly coming down the steps, I heard up in the attic. And it was rhythmic like a step. But it was in one place. It wasn't getting further. It wasn't getting closer. It was just right above us. And I just kind of thought like, okay, I don't know of any rat, of any raccoon. I don't know of any animal really. That's rhythmic.

that could potentially be responsible for this. And I remember feeling unnerved, not really concerned, but just kind of unnerved about it. And I do not believe that anything happened that night. I don't think, other than that sound, any activity happened that night. I just remember thinking, I'm going to just file this away for later. But most definitely, I do recall on a different evening. When we were sitting at the table, she lived with her grandmother as well,

Your grandmother was in the room watching TV, so it was just the two of us sitting there. And I remember this so well, Tony, because I had never had hominy before. And I was like, this is giant corn? What is hominy? She had prepared dinner. We sat down. We were about to eat. And she had this kind of like pseudo-China cupboard where there were no glass doors on the front.

But there were drawers on the bottom and shell in the front, very decorative, very ordnate, cool-looking piece. And she had a box, like an old. tackle box sitting on one of those shelves. And as we're sitting there, I can't hear very much the TV's on. Her grandmother is like cranked up to like fucking a thousand over there. So she looked at the box for a second. And I noticed she looked and I said, hmm, just like I got a mouthful of food. I remember just being like, hmm, because this happened before I was even able to continue eating. And she looked and she said nothing. I just thought I heard and before she even finished her sentence, this box, it didn't fly across the room. But it, it, it hasn't.

a little pepper on it, you know, it just kind of, we just kind of looked at each other. And I was like, okay, all right, this is not just sound. Something else is going on here. I was more intrigued than scared or concern. The feeling of like deep fear that was with that entity thing that we observed in that school, or rather on the video in the school, was disconnected from this. this was more curiosity. Like my heart rate's going, but what's going on? She very quickly, she put her stuff down. She went over, she picked it up, and she put it into the cabinet,

and she locked the cabinet, and she sat back down. I was like, are we going to talk about this? Like, what the hell does this happen? And she said, I don't know. I think she told me that she'd explain later that now wasn't the time or something. I just remember, like, remembering, you're not telling me the whole story. Nothing became of it that evening. But I remember the next time that we discussed the issue, she said, I need to show you what's in the box.

And I was like, is it connected to the fact that it flew off? Or is this just a, I presume at that moment, I presumed it was a random item that moved off of the shelf, that it had no significance, that it had no connection to anything whatsoever. It might as well have been a phone book, you know. when we went back over to her house and she showed me the box, she had a bunch of, again, I need to preface all of this of what I'm about to say with that I, by virtue of it existing, I don't think that it's bad. It's just what were you using this for that could be bad? Because I don't understand it.

My own ignorance. She opened it up and there was like a bunch of like parchment paper and she had quills. And I remember there being like odd items. there were like bones in there like they look like little animal bones almost like a chicken bone and like some hair and uh what i thought was a leather but now in retrospect it could have been like animal skin or something and she said well i've been in i've been i don't know how she said i've been into wicken for a while i've been practicing wickin for a while of which i was just like oh i mean like i i don't know how this is connected like why didn't you just tell me this when it happened i felt like

I felt like you were in a rush to take that box, put it under there, lock it, just put it away, and we're just not going to talk about it. And she said, well, she said, she had done some kind of, I don't know what, spell, whatever, something previous to going in there. And I said, oh, okay, it didn't seem alarming to me at the time. Because like I had indicated to you, my first thought was if you're going back in there where you think something might be able to call. you physical harm because Brandy had scratches all along her leg. You know, this is something we had documented, not just in our heads. Very good. Kind of what I told you to do, right?

I was thinking like crucifix or like Star of David or whatever the hell you want to do. But she said it was more than that. She was like, well, it was that. And I also wanted it to show what it was. And I was like, okay, I guess okay. Very ignorant, Tony, to the fact of how any of this works. I had no pre-exposure to this. I had no understanding of this enough to either critique it to say, yeah, that's a great idea.

Or don't do that. You're going to piss something off. But as time went on, all of a sudden, these dots started to kind of connect to themselves, where I thought, okay, this may have been connected. Do you think that you stimulated something more than just what we saw by doing this? and she said that she really wasn't sure, but I don't think she was telling me the full story. I think she just either had like a guilty enough conscious that,

you know, hey, listen, this person is experiencing this. This happened to her mom. This happened to TJ. I'm having night terrors about this, that she disclosed something. But I don't think she ever really told me what fully happened.

Nor did I press the point. I kind of gave her her privacy on it. And as long as things didn't get really, really dark and to the point that people were physically ill or physically injured, I'm just going to let sleeping dogs lie on that one. But again, I have my own speculations that that was not simply the entirety of what she did. It was probably about, I don't know, I just remember all of this happening in the summer. So again, day, week, next week, whatever, who knows.

I remember one evening though, after this happened with the box kind of flying over, I was still having really, really dark, scary. I never saw anyone. I never heard anything. I never thought anything. It was just this recurring nightmare over and over and over of being face to face with this door and then opening this closet door down there on the southwest stairwell and just seeing this blacker than black mass to the point where I thought like we haven't we haven't really talked

about this like we haven't discussed like let's go to the next place what's our next place let's go back into the school for this to still be occurring and her mom was still having these these recurring sightings it got to the point as well I'm kind of jumping around here because this is this not one cohesive occurrence. Like I said, there was just so much stuff that happened. It got to the point that when her mom went downstairs one morning to go into the kitchen, she saw this black thing in her kitchen. And she just, I recall the story. I didn't see this. This is, you know, second or third hand information to me by way of my friend, just shrieked. And everybody came running downstairs and just incoherent, like freaking out, pointing in the kitchen,

yelling about what she saw. And that's when my friend finally came to me and said, listen, I don't know what you guys did or saw or provoked when you were in there. But something, someone is going to take this to the level that they're going to get hurt. Something is going to get bad. And I didn't find that one instance of her mother seeing something in a kitchen to warrant the level of concern with which she. came to me. But again, it's, it's her mom. So I understand that you're concerned about this.

So I told her that I would talk to my friend about it. And when we had a discussion about this, she had told me that her grandmother thought that she was hearing things moving around in her bedroom at night. So it's a very slow, very slow trickle of increasing severity of, I stopped short of calling it like a, like a hunting or a possession. of a space, but it was starting to happen to all of us. It happened to her grandmother. It happened to my friend with her mother in the kitchen. It got to the point that my friend who, I did not tell you any of the things that happened to him because he, for whatever reason, initially, was spared of all of this. And it's really hard, Tony, when things like this happen that you have to take

someone's word for exclusively, not that you don't believe them and not that you don't trust like your family and your friends. But it's, you know, if you try or maybe this is my downfall, my fallacy of thinking is that if you try to approach this as, well, like we need to prove seeing as believing is kind of where I was at that point, I believe your mother saw something. I know I saw something come off the shelf. I know I heard something in your in your attic. I know I saw what happens to his car. It's still this kind of like no matter what happened, I still felt like, okay, well, are you just wanting to join the story because everybody else has had something happened? Like, here's your contribution. So I said, I think what we should do. If you're telling me

that you are hearing these, like, I don't remember if it was a shuffling, if it was a scratching, if it was something against the wall outside of his room at night, if it's happening consistently, why don't we try to document it, just like what we did in the school? and he had agreed to that under the, with the one condition that we kept the blinds closed. And I was like, okay, so that's only half of what I'm trying to achieve here. Like I wanted to see if I could see something, or I wanted to see if something would show itself to the point that we may need more help to undo whatever we did.

I was almost in that mindset. We were almost there where I'm thinking, we're approaching a level of severity, that this is no longer just in our in our little circle of we had an adventure. This is starting to go beyond the confines now. So we had agreed to try to document whatever he was hearing. And I just remember spending an extremely short, short amount of time in there. I thought, okay, I am going to spend all night here.

I've got, you know, all my stuff. My grandma's not expecting me home. My sister will be over later. It was like five minutes. was like five minutes into what I referred to as like the experiment, the documentation of this, that these sounds started. And I said, well, how long, I didn't ask you this. Like, how long does this go on? Does it increase in severity or is it just kind of like a menacing scratching? And what I heard, the way that I interpreted this as his house. And if you lived in Pennsylvania,

I feel like you'll know this. A lot of the houses have like the vinyl siding. You know, you just kind of have like that ship lap kind of style. I describe it as if you just took your hand and kind of like strummed it over and over and over. Not really like a scratching so much is just kind of like the pip, so we're not very far from the window. And he said it sounds, man, like it's just right outside the window. The glass was closed, but that is the side of the house where there are no other rooms. He has the longest room on that side of the house.

So I said, does it go away if you go out? Like when does it stop? He said, I've never gone outside. He said, I'm too afraid to go out there, but maybe we can go outside. And I said, okay, but the other part of that question is when, when does it stop? He said, just randomly. Sometimes it'll go on and off and on for hours. Sometimes it happens for five minutes. He said, it's kind of just haberdashery. It just kind of goes. So I said, I don't know if this will be successful. But why don't we very quietly, not that in the grand scheme of this, of things, in retro, respect that this would make any difference. But I said, well, just very like, text Avery, Wiley Coyote, like, we're just going to like creep out of here. I want you to keep your camera, but I want you to keep your light off. I've got a flashlight in my pocket with a push button. So keep it off. I'm going to go outside. And when I tell you to, I want you to start creeping over the side of the house to this corner. And when it's time, when I say it's time and we motion, we're going to take one great big step out. And I'm going to click on the camera. I want you

with your, or I'm going to click on the flashlight, and I want your camera already at height ready to go when you step around that corner and said, okay. And I just remember it was kind of like, like when you're going hunting, right, right? Like, oh man, this is the moment. This is the moment. I just got to get them lined up. And I just remember, okay, three to one, and we both just in succession took like one great big step around and click. It was this dark, darker than dark again. It had no face, it had no shape. It had no anything except the height. It was the height again.

The height, like the seven, eight, I'm really bad at proportions, but I mean, it was like the giraffe. It was, it was tall. And when the light hit it, it was, I don't know how I would describe this to anyone. I don't know how I would describe this to a scientist. it was as if the light went it was like a reverse shadow that's the best way i can say it it was like a reverse shadow you hit the light on it and everything else goes but it eats the light it doesn't get brighter it absorbed the light yes yeah it just gone yeah and it was it was so quick it was it was maybe a second a second is just just enough time to kind of see it and it's

gone right just like a quick process and it's gone. It was like a movie. It was like a movie where you're looking at someone or you're looking at a spirit or a spirit is being shown on screen. Sometimes they just, they dissolve, right? Or they just kind of fade away. It was like something out of the fucking twilight zone where it was there and then it wasn't. It was like a screen turning on and then off again. So I went from excitement to, I just like kind of looked at him and like he's just, he was without words. I too at this point and without words, but just kind of like, I don't know what to make of this. I don't know how to respond. I don't know who are we

supposed to talk to. I, I recall once we went back inside, I recall that close the blind, shut the curtains and I'm like, okay, if that, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, two would probably do the same sir but i'm more concerned about the unidentifiable nature of this that is that going to do anything it could probably walk through a freaking wall for all i know yeah how is it what is it what is it what is it want so all of these questions start running through my head and at that very moment at that very moment i realize it may sound like you should have david you should have realized this way back in your story that this was all connected but i realize like at my core at that moment that this is all the same thing this this somehow was the same

dark seven whatever foot tall thing that was either summoned into that school that was let into that school that never presumably as a result of this left the school that it has been in there the entire time so i against my better judgment against my better judgment i went to my friend's mom. And I said, listen, things are starting to get a little weird. I know about what you saw in the kitchen. I know about what you by way of your daughter. So describe it as you, as you wish, nights her visions or sightings in your bedroom of this thing. And I said, I want to show you something. This is what we had captured when we were in there and got a good kind of yelling at about like breaking into the school but i'm like that's not the point we can talk about

that later i am now worried that this is beyond our juvenile scope of understanding and that something dark is coming out of this so i showed her the video and i remember i was fully expecting when i hit that space bar and hit play and just showed her the video i remember waiting to see her look horrified like I was the first time that I saw it. I just remember in anticipation of having to say, I don't know, what do you think it is? I don't know,

but this is what we've been seeing. And I just had this kind of like pence up breath waiting for it. And she just looked and she said, this is Harley. This is Harley did this. And I was like, okay, okay. I'm excited now talking about it. Talking to you at this present point in time,

I'm excited about it because I can look back. and I can say this is the results of our of our adventure. All of these these things came together in a cohesive, not really linear, but you try to think about it linear sequence of events. And here she is right here saying this is what Harley did. So I was, I recall being just absolutely taken aback by this comment. And we sat down at the kitchen table and she got pretty emotional. I remember her getting really, really emotional.

about it to the point that her husband came home and walked in and he asked what was wrong. And she just, she waved me away and said, we're talking about something. You have to get out of here, go. And I don't know where he went. I was more concerned that he would be eavesdropping on the conversation.

But in retrospect, he probably already knew about it too. I couldn't imagine this would have been kept back quiet. And through, you know, her, she had her moment, through her emotions and through the worked upness that she was,

she had described that Harley had been involved in, I guess, like some kind of occult, whatever, you know, I'm very, Tony, not in tune with us at all. After this experience, I only took the information that I either observed, gathered, was told, researched only at that time, and never took it any further. Because of the level of severity that we experienced, I thought, that's enough. I'm good. I don't need to see anymore. I'm not saying I don't want to see anymore because I don't want to believe it. I believe it and I'm fine. Thank you. So she touched on the fact that he was involved in some kind of occultist. I don't know if it was a cult. I think it was just him. My memory says it was just him. And that she noticed at this school after this had happened. They said he vandalized the school. And she's like, I was more concerned. about what it was than it being a vandalized, you know, thing on the floor, that that's when stuff started happening. That's when it seemed like tensions were higher. You see like in movies,

you know, I immediately think of like the Amityville horror, right, where there's something there, there's something that makes people angry. It's affecting or controlling your emotions, you're behaving in ways aggressively that you may not, normally behave. She described it very similar to that. That after this occurrence, it almost seemed like a de, like a devolution of a structure, of administration, of interpersonal conflicts. There was a fire in one section of the building that was just to the other side of the library. And I was like, I don't know if that's connected. Maybe it's connected. But in her mind, that was the downfall. That was the reason that everything happened. And she said, no one's going to believe that story. She said,

no one is going to believe. She said, it's a small town. Rumors are going to start. There was a rumor that, like, one of the teachers, I don't know this person, but when I was asking about, like, what happened to the school was like, oh, it was because Mr. and Mrs. So and so we're having an affair and had sex in the library. I'm like, that sounds like something like a 14-year-old would make up. but to that point by way of her own saying, yeah, I know about this, but to that point,

who's going to believe something like that? It's easier to believe like somebody was screwing around and there was some kind of, you know, God knows what going on. At the end of this conversation, which felt like it went on for a week, it was just,

it was more information than I could process. I just remember like hearing everything she was saying and I had to just go home think about it. I was both excited and just kind of like taken a back that her confirmation, well, I misspoke, taken a back that her reaction to this was essentially confirmation of what we had been seeing and experiencing. But I had asked her, I was like, I don't know what to do. I think this is starting to get worse. And I'm really worried that something physical is going to happen, but beyond what happened to his vehicle, like to a person. And she said, I have absolutely

no idea. She said, I have some ideas of who to speak to about this, but I don't know anything specifically of what to do. I think she was also still wrestling with the fact that this occurred post-tend or previously and then currently and then it's still going on in what you would think of as being a adjacent to or like an adjunct church because the church is across the road. Do you think you can't, how do those things happen? You can't, how can you have something like that happen in what is essentially a church? But that was, I could see, I could see her wrestling with that fact. And I just remember thinking like, well, I'm going to follow up with you in a couple of days. And I'm going to give you your time. I need my time to think about this. I'm going to

go tell my friends the conversation that I had. But we need to circle back on this and we need to kind of figure out because it is, it's getting too weird. It's getting too real and it's getting too weird. And I remember the following week as we actually went into the gym for kind of this unannounced assembly, my school was small enough to the point that it wasn't abnormal or impossible to fit everybody from the elementary grade one all the way up through the seniors into one gym. It was pretty small that that was an accommodatable space that we often used. But we had an assembly just kind of out of the blue that was unannounced and it was the first thing in the morning of the following week. So I remember going to

going in there and everybody that you ask, I mean, ever, probably would never tell you an enduring love story about their principle, right? It's always like, you were either a good kid that never interacted with the principal largely and they have no stories about them because the two of them never interacted or the obverse side of that token, which I would be willing to wager a lot of us probably fell on. She and I did not get along ever. It was a very long story that is not pertinent to this discussion, but kind of setting the stage for how sharp and rough our interactions were, and pretty much any subject matter. We walked in and she was kind of shaped like a little potato and kind of just I always remember every time I saw her, it wasn't so much that, oh, I'm in trouble, which is like, oh, my God, I can't stand the sight of you. but the day that we walked in, she just had this very kind of blank look on her face.

And usually it was like very, you know, stern, Catholic, whatever, authority figure that I had really come to know. So seeing her that day was a little unusual. So I paid very close attention as everybody was filing in trying to figure out the premise and reason of this assembly. and to my horror, before she even finished her sentence as she began speaking, I realized, oh, we're in here because this has gotten back to her that some students had broken into the old school. And, you know, blah, blah, blah. There's claims that something was seen and that people were experiencing things. And she basically just kind of went on an anti-paranormal rant,

kind of incoherent. It was mostly just kind of, I felt as if we were being admonished. And most of the kids, I presume, largely, had no idea about what we had done. So the context of her speaking to us was probably lost on a lot of the kids that were there.

But I was not sitting close to my friends. We were all kind of split up just where we were sitting in the bleachers or kind of we had like table seating almost out into the, the basketball court. But I was listening to what she was saying. And towards the end, she kind of like rattled off with this almost like definitive statement of these things are not real.

Something, and I'm paraphrasing, these things are not real and this is not something that can hurt you. And it was a little more harsh than that. And she no more than finished speaking. And to kind of set the stage here, If you can just imagine, I guess, I'll paint the picture of like a 1980s-esque gymnasium set up where basketball court bleachers and on the far wall over by the benches, there were like cafeteria windows, a serving area because you would have functions in there. And the kitchen was in the back corner.

The rollers, I guess, I would call them, like the metal security things you'd close at night. Those were all up. So it was up and the windows, or excuse me, the lights were off. So she had just finished that statement, just finished speaking. And no one else in that split second, it was just silent. There was this tremendous thunderous crash from the cafeteria. And that one singular metallic boom, obviously everyone kind of like jostled and looked in that general direction. But what was even more spectacular was not the single sound that occurred.

as everyone is trying to figure out and looking around and I okay I think it came from over there in the cafeteria another sound very similar to it had happened and we just kind of thought like shit something had fallen over upon inspection as we went in there there was kind of a like a commercial kitchen style rack with with wheels anyone that's worked in a restaurant or even probably fast food has seen what i'm describing it would take an intentional force to knock it over, to push it and topple it, somewhat similar to the footprint of a refrigerator. I had originally, upon walking in there, thought that something had just fallen off the wall. Maybe someone had stacked dishes. But what we discovered was that not one, but two of these, I presume, mobile shelving units for pie pans, cookie sheets like that, had been not just pass over straight down onto the ground.

And it was so profound that it happened right after she was done talking. And she kind of got this look on her face. Like, I can't raise my eyebrows very far, but it was just kind of like, uh-huh. And I looked across the room and I was looking for my friend's mom, who I had discussed this with, who was the vice principal of the old school. And I couldn't find her anywhere. It wasn't unusual. She was still a teacher at our school at that time.

and involved in administration, but I was immediately going to ask her, like, this is what I, did you witness this? This is what I was referring to, these physical manifestations, these physical things that are occurring, I believe is connected to all of this, hence my sense of my sense of urgency to find some kind of a resolution. And nothing more came of it. It was just one, like I said, strange, nuance thing that was of increasing severity or increasing power. tangible size things happening. Later that day, I did run into her later on just towards the end of the day. And I asked her who she spoke to.

And she said, I'm having a really hard time with this because I know what happened in there. And I believe what you have told us and what you have shown me. She said, but I'm really at this point of resistance, this kind of like struggle to bring myself in an official manner to speak to someone about this. So I basically just point blank asked her, I said, so is this something that you are comfortable with or you are asking me to kind of just go out? And I kind of want to just do this on my own only because I feel like I was trying to put a stop to it where everyone else had a sense of let's explore more. Let's find out more even though these things were occurring. So once I asked her that, she basically just did give me the names of,

a gentleman that I'm not going to name, but he was a brother, brother X, Y, Z in the Catholic church that I have never met before. And I have absolutely no idea how I never came across this gentleman. But she gave me his name and it was not, I didn't even need his number. All I had to do was just go to the rectory office and ask to speak to brother X, Y, Z. And I set up an appointment with him. And I sat down and I didn't give the, the pretense or the substance of my request to meet with him. I just said, I need to have a conversation with him. Let's set up a time to talk. This episode is sponsored by Better Help. Listen, guys, racing thoughts is a real thing. It keeps people awake at night. It's a big source of anxiety and stress, not being able to turn your brain off about

the things that you need to do, that you don't want to do, the things that have been done to you that you do not like and you can't stop stewing on it. These are all things that are real life issues and sometimes you need help to get through them. I have a friend who has heard me talking about BetterHelp, and they reached out to BetterHelp and started sitting down doing sessions. And they have been telling me how great it was because BetterHelp worked around their schedule. They plugged them in with the therapist that, though the therapist that they got plugged in with was very helpful and useful, they liked the idea of being able to change therapists if they needed to.

They haven't had to do that, but the idea of being able to change was a big selling point because I guess that's something that people worry about. Do I go to counseling and the counselor's not doing well? And then what do I do? If I can't identify with the counselor, I'm stuck. I have to start all over. With better help, you don't have to do those things because you can switch when you feel like you need to. Now, it is a very easy, useful service to use because it's done from the comfort of your own home, from a computer screen or a phone. You can even type with a therapist. So if you don't feel comfortable going on camera or doing audio, you can actually type with a therapist back and forth for your session and do it that way. There's a lot of convenience when it comes to BetterHelp and them being

able to better help you through your situation. If you think BetterHelp can help you, go ahead and get a break from your thoughts with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash yupp today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. Help, H-E-L-P-O-P-com slash yupp. And I remember it was that same week after all of this happened, the gymnasium running into her in the school at the end of the day that I, with a sense of urgency, went over there to speak with him. And I basically just, without wasting much time after just sitting down and doing our introductions, explained softly what it was that we had done, what we had seen, and then what we were. was continuing to occur after that. And he was extremely surprised.

He was probably borderline mortified at what I was saying. And I did bring the video along to show him. And he actually, like, I was just about to play it and he declined me to show it to him. And at the time, I kind of thought, like, that is, this is me trying to show you that of which we have a problem with, it would seem strange to not know what we're, I guess, dealing with.

But in retrospect, I can kind of understand why he would want to distance himself from any media of it or maybe that's like a conduit in some regard. So again, in retrospect, I understand it. But what ended up happening was, as I understand it,

he had contacted some other priests in the area. And then someone had come down from, It was either Pueblo or Colorado Springs. I guess that's probably not really that important, but I remember after I ran into him a week or two later, whenever this was, I had asked him what he had done and who he had talked to. And he took our concerns, I should say this, very seriously.

He did listen to what I had to tell him. He listened to the very short debriefing of what we experienced. And as I understand it, these gentlemen had come down to the school and performed some kind of a blessing or a ritualistic blessing, if you will, of the area. And I did make it very, very clear to him that in no short way that my concern was that it had something occultists that we think it had something to do with the pentagram on the floor. And I made it very clear to him that I am not an expert by any means. But through conversation, it seems that it would be useful information for you to know that this is how we think this happened. And this is how it was physically erased when it was considered graffiti and, you know, vandalism. But, you know, for X, Y, Z reasons, you may need to pay special attention to that.

So around that same time, my friend who was the person that kind of like we were the two that instigated this visit and instigated this adventure, got into a really, really bad car accident that she had to do flight for life. And the details of the accident were very, very murky. And it was by herself. She was with no one, just driving back home up the mountain. And the nature of her accident was that she was going around. a right turn. So cliff off to your left, rock wall that is carved into the road on her right. And it was relatively sharp. I thought that she had swerved by way of kind of second, third-hand information around an elk or a deer or a raccoon or something. Because wildlife obviously is

not unusual, especially larger animals. At highway speed, unless you're in a, you know, kind of a SWAT vehicle, even the largest of trucks can have an elk go up through and come through the windshield. So I was really trying to understand what had happened. And when I went to visit her in the hospital in about, it was like two days because she wasn't in town. They took her out of town in flight for life. I asked her what had happened. And she told me that as she was coming around that bend, she in just a split second looked up and saw this seven whatever plus foot tall thing standing in the middle of the road. And her immediate reaction was to swerve around it.

What that led to ultimately was her fish tailing and placing the front of that Chevy blazer into the rock, basically, edifice of the road. And she was in serious condition for quite a while. She spent the rest of the summer in physical therapy. She had a normal return to school the following year. but, you know, for a kid to kind of blow up the rest of their summer from July onward, it was a very big deal. It was a very close call. The ending in my story is very anticlimactic because what ended up happening is I had thought since this was days after brother X, Y, Z had said, listen, we went in, we did a blessing, things should be good, you know, go with Christ, whatever,

that this had occurred. Her other friends that I was never, in the circle of friends with had also found out about this. And they were evidently much more familiar with the occult, much more familiar with Wiccan or Wiccanism, whatever the proper is. And they had evidently done something of their own as well. So when you do two variables at once, it's impossible to know which one worked, right?

It's impossible to know, like, were they in tandem with one another to achieve the desired outcome, or was it one or the other? that of which I cannot speak to. I do not know. But it seemed that right after we had this discussion and she said, you know, other people had taken it upon themselves to bless it or do something,

whatever it is that they do, it almost just as mysteriously as it started to creep up, just drop. Everything stopped, everything ceased with one exception, one and one only and final exception. The summer was nearing a close, and we were getting ready to go back to school. And on one of the final weekends, when we were just like, we're going to stay up all night,

we're going to drive around, we're going to just go see everybody, and we're just going to have like a summer weekend, the last one that we had. It was actually extremely calm. It was extremely anticlimactic. There was very little drinking. And towards the end of the evening, I was a designated driver driving home. And I remember going down Main Street where this school is visible through about a 200, 250 foot somewhere in that window alley. Straight shot.

If you're in that intersection and you look down the alley under the streetlight, you can see the front corner, the front northeast corner of the building. You cannot see the rest, but it's just peeking out just a little bit. And there was a stop lay right at that intersection. And again, summer, our windows are down. We're going very slow, just hanging out. and my sister who had had a couple of drinks was in the rear view or the rear seat immediately behind me and as we were sitting there she yelled some kind of obscenity at and towards the building something to the effect of you're not so fucking tough now are you you whatever and Tony it was

the strangest thing and if if it had happened to me by myself I still wouldn't have believed that had happened. But in that second, after she had said that, this very powerful, very strange, very loud wind just came rushing right up, right up through the alley, right up through the alley. The force of which move the car a little bit, if you've ever been stopped near a highway or whatever, just that kind of that you feel from an automobile passing you either opposing or going the same direction. It felt just like that. And she had a baseball cap on.

And it was tight, but I presume it's because she was looking this way out the window when it happened. It knocked her hat clean off of her head. And we all just like stopped, even though I'm almost positive that the light had turned green. There was no one around and we just kind of stopped and looked at each other. And I just turned around and said, I really don't think you should, whatever that was, I don't think you should do that again.

And if I had to do it over again, just, Tony, just for purposes of confirmation, just for purposes of confirmation, I would have had the foresight to immediately look up and down the street to see if any, if there was any dust, to see if like this is something that occurred, not just in our immediate vicinity, but it was something that was, you know, two, three, four, five hundred feet away to look to see if I saw anything else moving and I didn't and I think about that all the time. So I think I'm trying to explain it away, but that was the final thing that occurred because I think we had this realization of I don't know if that is actually the end of it. Let's just quietly stop antagonizing. Let's stop questioning. Let's stop trying to see more of it and just leave sleeping dogs live

because after that moment, that scared the shit at her. I will say that. The look on her face was kind of personality changing for the remainder of our evening. Everything pretty much ceased after that. But it was a hell of a deep, deep fear, a kind of fear that I have never felt

in my adolescent or adult life since. That's incredible. man. I'm telling you that that story. Wow. I, I, um, I was sitting here and the scope of the email was so small compared to what you just relayed. You know, like what you, what you got me on with the email was just a fraction of what you just shared. And, uh, I'm, I'm totally taken back. And so to move forward here in a conversation, I just want to inform the audience right now that we did stop recording about 20 minutes ago from this point because I had to run home and watch my child. And so if you hear me ask questions as if I wasn't listening, it's because it was several

hours ago since I heard this story. And so I might need some refreshers as we continue in this conversation, but holy cow, man. This story is like, it's layered. And the funny thing is when you, when you mentioned about, was it the vice principal that was talking in the gym? Oh, no, that was that was the principal of the newly established school that had moved out of that building. Gotcha. So that person, speaking in the gym, Jim, the way you described it, I was like, you know, this is strange, stranger things. Like, this is stranger things. Kids opening portals, letting things through, and now it's chasing them around in this realm.

And what's really interesting is the way this story ends, I do get the sense it's not done. And not for you, per se, but whoever, you know, went around. doing blessings or whatever, I get the sense that there were boundaries introduced that weren't there before. And it's like you had an experience in the car that you just shared with us. And that experience would, if you want to say it was from what you just shared, it would tell you that it's still there. It's still active. But almost like there's been handcuffs put on and it's like boundaries that it can't cross you know um but yeah harley did something really crazy really really crazy and and you never met harley right you just heard about

harley i never met this kid um i do not know even in relation to my age right now uh how old he was what grade level he was nor did i seek him out I sought out information for purposes of trying to corroborate stories and just honest to God, just to validate that this gentleman even existed. This was not some kind of rumor mill small town talk, which happens quite easily at the smallest of things, let alone something to this scale. So were you able to verify that Harley was a real person? Yes.

Yep. Especially when I showed that video to the old vice principal and had this discussion, the immediate reaction of this is Harley did this. Boom, there we go. There's a stamp on that one. We can put that one on the table. And it, I do not know that it changed much for me so much as I felt confident that, Okay, seeking out an adult, seeking out someone who is telling me to my face that they had some memory of this, that they had some, you know, pseudo experience with this was comforting in some way. It didn't make the problem go away. But it was strangely comforting to say, okay, so this happened. This is a real person. You have knowledge of what your experience was there, both. in your own kind of frame of reference as well as what you thought happened as a result of it. So it was one of these strangest things that I have ever experienced ever. It changed a few things, small things for me.

It didn't change my life, but it did change some small things for me. I will not watch things like The Conjuring movies. I am naming a specific movie, but the co-handleys, of which that belongs to. I cannot bring myself to watch stuff like that. And I like suspense. I enjoy being scared when I know that it's purely entertainment. But the avenue, the conduit with which our experiences outside of that building found us was through a screen or from talking about it or from acknowledging its existence. Maybe if we didn't even have the video, well, I misspoke. If we didn't have the video, perhaps we would not have known what we captured on video to even talk about it.

So let's just pretend that I didn't watch the video. I don't know if just speaking about it at length gave it energy. I'm not an expert in this by any means. I spent some time trying to look this up by way of what others have experienced similar things. so to that point I just can't bring myself to I'm going to do some air quotes like invite that into

my space into my house for that exact reason well I mean speaking to that you had said to me that when we first had to disconnect to go for me to go home your

your video stopped recording during that initial recording we went about four 40-some minutes. And then I got a notification that said that your browser doesn't allow recording, which it did for 40-some minutes. I have the video of that. But then it just stopped recording. And you had said that you never look at that video for these reasons. And you did before we started. And what was interesting is as you were telling that experience, and I look back at this afternoon, I could see where when you were described,

how you saw that thing about up to your friend's waistline. I was flipping through the video at that time trying to see things. And so I know I was looking at that video while you were on video. And then we were disconnected. And that's something that has happened several times as the show has been diving into this realm of discussion. when we first started the show, well, and with most shows, I mean, you start a show and then you do it for seven years, the show changes. It involves it. Topics of conversation change and my thought with this kind of shows, hopefully the host thought process changes as well as he hears people's

stories and consumes more information. And we are at a point in this show where we don't shy away from and we talk openly about the interdimensional aspects of our existence. And the idea that the flashy word portals are real and things enter through these different venues. And you're talking about the video aspect, but we talk even through conversation, it seems like over the last year or so, we've had a lot of. of technical things go sideways during recordings when we're talking about these kind of things. They're different topics, but it seems like one of the most consistent things is we're talking about something or some things, whether it's directly or indirectly, that has to do with

things accessing this realm that shouldn't be possible. And that's when things kind of go glitchy with technology. And so a couple of weeks ago, I talked about how even the fact, even the idea of books can be an opening, a portal in a sense to another realm. In a, in a, what's the word I'm looking for? In a, maybe not a literal sense, like C.S. Lewis, but like in a philosophical sense. And the, the, through video, I think you access, in a philosophical sense, time travel. You, you, You captured that moment in time, and at any time you can travel back there when you click, when you click play.

Have you ever heard of stone tape theory? I don't think so. Stone tape theory is something that I had come across as kind of the vernacular of describing apparitions, entities, spirits, whatever you may call, that are evidently to you in the moment of which you experience it, not aware of your presence. They do their thing, they do their routine,

they go on their path as if you don't exist. And if you were to witness that again, they would be doing the exact same thing over and over and over. Stone tape theory is something that I almost, it's not a one for one comparison to your point of watching a video and then giving, I almost want to call it spiritual credence. And credence might be the wrong word because that is to say as if you do not believe it. So perhaps a better word would suit me better here.

But it's almost as if you give it the energy simply by bringing it up on the screen. You're feeding it or something. And even though it's one video of something doing a thing or certain things over and over with no variation, I think that might be enough to bring it back, to send one little sentinel of it out into the now, into our reality, into our dimension. So I 100% believe that. And I have not, I have my YouTube channel that everybody uses YouTube for, but I have two videos that I have uploaded onto my YouTube channel. One is a video of she died now, but one of our elderly dogs, like opening birthday presents.

And the other one is that video. And I really stay away from it with the exception of a discussion like this. Only because the entire time we've been talking, I still kind of feel nervous, fearful in a sense almost, but maybe fearful is too strong of a word. Maybe just, I'll say, educated concern. I can understand that. You know, I don't have, I wouldn't say I have any fear of the conversation.

I see people, you know, throughout the years have said, you know, you know, why would you give attention to these things and, and draw them towards you, like, through this, like, this medium of conversation. And I'm like, sucker, you're listening, you know, like, what do you think? What do you think you're doing? You're playing in the car, man. Like, you're here with me. Yeah.

And so I, and I, you know, I've shared my thoughts over the years about a lot of this kind of stuff. But, um, the fact is this. I really get the sense that something happened that is on a, I wish,

I wish we had more details as to what Harley did to spawn all this. Uh, we have the story of the pentagram, the wax and the jander cleaning it up. Uh, leads us to our magic. of trying to wonder, well, what did that look like? What was he doing? What did he do? What did he conjure? He was trying to conjure something maybe. Like, I wish we had more detail because what I feel like right now is that something was done at the school that opened a doorway between this realm and

another. And something or some things were able to walk freely through and lay a stash. on a geographical location here, which would have been in the school. And from there, things ensue. So, and this goes back to the same question that kind of you, you hinted at early on, which is, did the school really close for what they said? Or did they close because of this? But if they did close because of this, you would think that they would have been able to handle it like it's been handled now, theoretically handled now, unless the boundaries were set back then and you guys broke those boundaries, giving it legal precedence to pursue beyond the boundaries that were initially set?

Absolutely. I had that very same thought because it would have in my mind. I can think of an example. I can think of no example in which it would not have. That that information would have spread through the school like wildfire. I mean, it's a Catholic school. So to paint the picture relatively between relative. and very conservative social values in their definition.

I do not understand how something like that would have been taken so lightly. In my mind, from being a third party, listening to what happened, listening to how it was dealt with, and then all of the after effects that basically, as far as I am aware with the information that I have happened immediately afterwards, it's just mind-based. boggling to me that this was not even an afterthought, that it wasn't even considered that, hey, if anybody starts drawing back on the calendar, like, can we maybe kind of pinpoint what happened? But I do have a suspicion. I have no confirmation of this. This is purely conjecture. But I do have a suspicion that if it was more powerful at that point, if it was able to inflict

more interpersonal, emotional, whatever damage to those of which who were in the school, I wonder if it was even in their mind. I wonder if they even thought about what he had done if it was indeed affecting their relationships with one another. Truly a thought of my own, I don't know. I thought about this, obviously, a thousand times, and it's the only thing that I can arrive at

is that they were perhaps not a sound mind in some regard, but I do not know. It's still closed to this day. It is in the exact same state that we left it in 2009 as today in 2023. And I was just down there. Actually, I don't obviously live there. I live up north of Denver now, and I'm like 400 miles almost away. But I was just there yesterday and the day before yesterday for Labor Day weekend. And I drove down two adjacent streets to that building. And I made a conscious thought and decision to not even look down the street. I just kept going in the one singular direction that I went the first time.

And upon return, going the complete perpendicular way, straight ahead. You don't exist. Not that you don't exist, but I'm saying you don't exist. I'm just going to pretend like I was not involved in any of this, have a nice maternity. And I fully intend to leave it that way outside of just discussing it and our experience there. I've had people ask me about it. I've had people, we tried to largely kind of keep it between ourselves because we had plants. We had plans to continue going elsewhere. We had plans to start looking into cemeteries, of which some of them kind of did on their own. and I was not what I would consider party too. But it kind of spread around that, hey, you guys saw something in there. What can you tell me? Can we go in? Can you take us in?

And it was just, it was an absolute no. It was not, it quickly left the realm of entertainment and went into the category of, listen, I saw what we came to see. It was more than I expected. It was more than I wanted to see. I'll tell you the G rated version. of things so I don't get you too excited. It's a cautionary tale, not a you should do this, and then just leave it at that.

And, God, it seems like it was yesterday, even though it was, you know, really years ago by this point. But it was the single greatest, greatest in the sense of, like, powerful. I still want to call it unexplained, unexplain, paranormal, whatever moment of my life. I've never, I thought I had seen things or heard things or experienced things when we were children, but I believe that some people are able to hold on to some sense of awareness, some sense of, hey, you want somebody to talk to you? Like, I can see you, even if you don't know that. Like, you know, my, my whatever, it's called soul, heart, brain, whatever, my existence, we were sympathico in some ways. I feel that if people have that, they don't always keep that, has been my experience.

That's solely, solely off of my own experience. And I say that because I haven't had anything else that happened after that. And I work in like creepy old places. I don't define them as creepy. But if you followed me into some of the places I work, I've been asked for like, oh my God, don't you get scared down here? Do you know, do you ever hear anything? Do you ever see anything?

if I do, I've never paid attention to, and I would not ignore it, nor am I seeking it. It just has never come to me after that. So things that happened to me before that experience were probably subject to my own debate in my own mind thinking like, did that really happen? Did that happen? Maybe, I don't know. I think having it on video for me was very foundational, very kind of like, okay, self-affirming this this did happen and the things that followed it did in fact happen so

it was the craziest thing i've ever experienced yeah well let's talk about the video here so uh you've you've referenced it several times throughout this uh recording and um it was you know recorded in 2009 and some it wasn't 4k and it was dark and it was filmed by somebody uh that you that that was just not like you weren't filming it for viewers, for viewers in a sense, you know, because it's all over the place. Yeah,

it's all over the place. Like, you're walking upstairs and you're giving me shots of girls' butts. And it's just like, you know what I mean? It's just like, there was no like, like you're looking at the stairs.

And it's like all that stuff, right? And I, I preface that because it's hard to see what's going on in a dark room with crap flashlights or crap camera. And you sent me the link at the timestamp. where one of the girls was crying and the other girl was consoling her

and I see the scratch and she's sobbing and you might have said this earlier but again this was hours ago so refresh my memory one why was she crying again and also like I know she was scratched or cut or whatever but was that

was that a supernatural thing or was that she stepped through a window or something but also if you could go into what is seen on camera versus because I have not been able to see what you're describing on the camera yet. I've flipped through it, but it, you know, on YouTube, it's time stamps five seconds. I'm trying to hit it and stuff. And you talk about the flash of light with the, with the taking of the pictures. I see it, but I mean, a flash of light's really fast. I'm trying to stop it, but I haven't done it yet. I'm going to put it on some video editing software to

actually be able to stop it and freeze frame it. But if you could just describe what we're talking about here because you in the email, you talked about a wing creature. What you described seeing, at least what you described to me seeing, that's in this video, you didn't say wing creature, but then somebody else saw a wing creature. And are you saying that that's what you saw, and you're assuming what you saw had the wings, or how does this all play out?

And maybe I'll see it in the video. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I'm going to start with the times on this real quick. So I think the link that I sent you starts at minute 19, 11 seconds. And if I move this page, are we going to lose recording? Or can I go to do the video? You should be fine.

Okay. Well, let me start here real quick. So it's having a little lagginess and loading here. But I want to narrate along as I go through this. Because I remember when I uploaded this, when I saved this, to YouTube. I intentionally left it at the 1911 start point. Let me pause this. God, this sound on this is terrible. My goodness. Okay, so starting with 1911. That is just at the moment that the camera is, well, no, I guess the camera has been sitting down for a minute. Let's hit play. At 1911,

If it loads, Tony, if it loads. That's fine. Enter Jeopardy music. I know. We can cue that one. There we go. I was going to say, while you're getting ready to load that, I will say I did see the orb or whatever it was.

I mean, that's very clear, you know? And it's not like it's zapping through a screen. It went slow enough. You could see movement. And some people might say it was a bug on the lens, but I personally don't think it was a bug on the lens. but carry on and share with us what you what you're going to share so with this cute up here it looks actually had this set two seconds too early it looks like at 1903 I'm sorry 1906 there's a flash

and at 1911 that's when this orb flies out of what was pictured as that open I presume it was a closet because so much time has gone by. I remember looking that direction and thinking, okay, that's a closet. When I reviewed the video and that flash went off and I could see that wall with the door kind of cracked open, I realized, okay, that was actually, as far as the video leads me to believe where this thing came out of. And it had gone up and disappeared already by 1913. But in the moment that it goes up and kind of presents itself there, The quality on this, arguably, is not great, but the actual flash drive version of this is a little bit more finer. This is kind of grainy on here.

And to my point earlier, there is a, I realized about an inch section from the frame of this video for whatever reason that is not visible in the YouTube version of it. And to me, telling this story, talking to anyone about it, my point, I feel. the like of credit the most is when you can point right there at the screen and say right there, right there is when those eyes, presumably eyes, they are symmetrical and pretty high to where I saw the outline of this thing open and then just disappear and then the orb goes with it. So that is something that you and I were talking about that I need to locate the actual copy of this. And then at about 1914, Brandy starts just crying. She's, she's freaking out. she's kind of having a little meltdown over there in the corner.

And as I had indicated earlier, the notion of this was to try to be quiet. If we were going to get caught, it's something that we were trying to do an experiment and an adventure on without any interruption, essentially. So I have marked down here from my notes going back away is that at minute 20,03 is where this apparition appears right in the right-hand portion of the front. frame and it's right actually before 2003. It's about up to her hip. I thought for the longest time it was a candlestick, like it was a candelabra or something, that it was the camera moving and it's stationary and it's a camera going like this, making it look like it's moving. But I had played it slow. I played it fast. I've gone into a dark room and put night mode on my MacBook and my husband has a lot of video, videography and photography software since he's a

wedding photographer. So he won't touch this stuff, but I know very rudimentary levels of changing lighting and doing this to try to improve an image. So I've taken screenshots and stills and I can't explain what it is. It's just suddenly there. It moves towards her. It moves away and then it's suddenly gone. I have thought about this several times as well, post review of this photo, thinking, was there something in that room that I could have mistaken it for? And I got nothing. I just remember there being a couple books in there, the table, the desk, and that's

pretty much it. But when she starts having this episode, and very briefly you can see on the camera, there's some scratches starting to appear on her leg, she had described it that the moment she walked out of the building, she was starting to feel better. She almost could breathe. And I originally had described it as somewhat of a panic attack. But the more that we talked about it, she had described her feelings as if she was just drowning in sadness. Just drowning in sadness. We thought she was scared. But she described it as being a feeling of just like hopelessness, just absolute sadness throughout her entire body that started to dissolve as she

left right out through the wall of the building, which kind of lends credence to the fact of, okay, so if this was something dark intending to make people feel this way, if it was something demonic, I can see how those two things would correlate with one another. but it was it was something that like I said earlier this was very early on I kind of remained skeptical about because I still can't to this day prove that for for reasons of theatrics she didn't do it herself I'm not claiming that she did it to herself but if I was like a private investigator looking at something I'd be like well she could have done it herself I presume she didn't but it's possible of course anything is possible so I

always believed her description of her feelings and the claim that all of a sudden she just had this stinging and boom, she could feel it on her leg as facts, concurrent with everything else that started to occur after that. But again, I need to find you the more refined version of this. And kind of a slower playdown, I think would be a lot easier to see this stuff. And it happens so fast too, arguably so. The only thing that's on that video was maybe less than a minute's worth of activity. But that's kind of where it started. Yeah. When you find, I think you say it was on the flash drive, get it on your computer, drop it in a Dropbox link or something like that, send it to me so I have the file and I can really kind of play with it on my end. And I'm not a video guy.

I just pretend to be one, you know, and I run a media company, but I don't know a video. I'm not a video guy. That's what I have other people for. But I'd be interested in maybe looking at it or passing on one of my guys to look at. And so again, for clarification, in the footage that you're going to send me, is it that YouTube cut it off or something? So there's more footage available in the file? It is. From what I'm looking at right here, let me go back again. What I see. see when I hit play on this and the top of this orb ascends into the top of the frame, it is either, I'm going to mess with my screen, so my video of me is probably going to be kind of funky. It is cut off because if you paused it at 19 and 14 seconds, you can see where when it reaches the top, this event's horizon of the top of its being is brighter. And you can just make out the bottom half of a sphere that I would say is its head, the top of its being.

And in that brightness that is kind of an egg-shaped circle, kind of an oval, is an even brighter pair of what I classified as eyes that show up. So upon first viewing, you just think, oh, shit, that's really dark. You just can't see it. For whatever reason, it is as if it is shorter. So I'm convinced that perhaps through uploading, again, not a video guy. really know. All right. So I have it, it's interesting. Just now, I have it paused where it, huh, I almost feel like I see eyes. It's interesting. It's very interesting. Well, listen, I'm going to, we're going to pivot here in conversation because this is a podcast. I want to

make sure people aren't getting lost in us talking about something they can't see. True, true. Hopefully, this will be on YouTube. I just don't. know if it'll be on YouTube when we release the audio because it just takes us longer to produce the video. Audio is, that's why I've, that's why I've been a podcast for years and not a YouTuber, but we're trying to do YouTube videos as well. So be patient. But when we put out the video on YouTube, hopefully we can have this file playing while we're talking so that people can see it for themselves as well, or at least screenshots or something. But, okay, so let's kind of pull back from the video aspect and the analysis of the video.

we just did for last hour and talk about just the the the the this existence um so let me ask you just a basic elementary question uh your experience with this uh and oh by the way i was able to actually pause it on the flash i was very proud of myself uh and on the right hand side of the screen is where the crack door was right that's what you're talking about okay cool correct yep so you're in this school that you hear about harley you know about the pentegrine you know about the pentegrine I the way it's the way you tell the story it if Harley was being nefarious which it seems like Harley was Harley opened up a gateway a portal something came through Harley left the gateway or portal open because Harley was trying to bring something here the janitor didn't know what it was didn't

care did his job clean it up didn't properly close the gateway and this thing because the gateway wasn't closed was here. And this is my, this is my interpretation. And I believe the leadership of the school knew about this and maybe not knowing exactly how to get this thing back. They're just like, okay, let's set up boundaries here and try to contain because the gateway has been erased. It's gone. It's no more, you know. So that's just my very, loose interpretation of everything. But with your experiences, with this whole thing, what does your gut tell you this thing was? I mean, do you, I mean, we're talking about a winged creature or a shadow creature that's consuming light. I mean, it's not like you just saw this thing at, at the school.

You saw it at a buddy's house. And we can get into that in a second. But like, before we move forward, what is your understanding as far as what do you and your gut feel like this was? I mean, and feel free to be truthful as far as how you feel. I mean, for me, I'm like, this is some kind of dark entity from another realm that traversed realms and came here through a portal and I got to go find it now. You know, so that's how I feel. Yeah, 100%. The hair just like stands up on the back of my head, like even just when I took that last breath thinking about it, because the infatuation with both trying to figure out the constant like trying to know the curiosity let's just call it curiosity of the events and of the situation in the moment i did not give

much time to its categorization or its classification i was paying more attention at the time I'll speak to like in the past versus now in retrospect. At that moment, I had not really considered what I thought it would be. I was focusing largely on the things that it was by way of what I was being told, reporting to have been doing and then the things that I saw it doing. Up to the point of her crashing her car, it seemed malevolent in the sense of fear instigating at best, even the box flying or flying gives the idea that it flew across the room a foot or two coming off of the hutch

still seem somewhat poltergeistic right in some sense so at that time i think before i started having this recurring dream i chalked it up to be some kind of human spirit somebody's trapped in the building irrespective of the fact that by purposes of scaling when you watch the video that it appeared that it was very, very tall, taller than a person, big, broad shoulders, that it was a person. And it was just messing with us. But when I looked, rather, I'm putting myself one step ahead, when I had the dreams of seeing something that was darker than dark in the corner of that closet at the end of the cafeteria,

coupled with the experience that we had outside of his house, trying to grab something on video, was the moment I think I realized that it was darker than a human was capable of being, that it was that it was more, I guess, I am going to reuse that word again, darker, that it was darker and more powerful than a person could ever reach the level of. And the amount of fear that I felt from my experiences with it, and the level of fear that my friends had explained it to me and described to me, it almost felt as if it was intentionally making us afraid, that the goal was to make us fearful.

This was not some Simpsons, Mr. Burns, high on morphine wandering out of the forest to say, I bring you peace and love. It was seemingly intentionally distressing, and I would say purposefully able to cause those kinds of reactions emotionally and probably physiologically if it had continued beyond the point of which it stopped. So I say all of that to say that when that kind of happened towards the end and looking back on this, I am of the school of thought that it was something demonic, that the intent behind

opening something up and bringing it into the school was to hurt, that it was malicious, that it was not here to help him pass the SATs, that it was there to inflict, that it was there to do damage, and that it was there essentially, presumably in my mind, like an agent of chaos,

because there was nothing good that came of it. And arguably, you can have human hauntings that nothing good comes of that either, but this sense of it all was, so heavy and so dark that I can think of nothing else other than something demonic from wherever the hell they come from. The pits of hell. To be continued. No, I, I mean, I agree. I mean, at the very basic, most rudimentary sense of it, demonic, sure, we could venture into exploring the idea of, you know, what is it, though? You know, what is it, though?

you know, like, when, because, all right, so here's a thing. So, uh, I am, uh, somebody who, like, I, like, I, I don't want to, what's the word I'm looking for? Um, using the word fan is, uh, very much not what I'm looking for when I describe this, but I, I don't know how else to describe it. I, I'm not a disciple, but, uh, I, I absolutely love and, um, respect Dr. Michael Heiser in his viewpoints on the supernatural realm. And one thing that he would say, I've heard him say several times because I mean, I nerd out on the stuff and I listen to him talking on YouTube and when he was alive sharing different things. And he would say that angels don't have wings and demons don't have horns. And the idea,

I think he was trying to portray is that like there's a lot of Hollywood stuff that has been seeped into our minds as to what these things are with how they operate, how they look. I mean, you can look at descriptions of different beings in the book of Revelation and how they have wings, you know, sure. But I say that to preface because when you, when you were describing this stuff and the way it came about, my gut reaction was, holy crap, is, did this Harley person conjures some kind of fallen angel, you know? Hindsight, I don't know. But whatever this thing was, it seems like it was powerful. Like, you know, when I was a kid growing up, it seems like I'm a little older than you. I graduated high school in 2003, so, you know, a little older.

But when I was in high school, I remember these church kids would say, you know, the devil's dumb. The devil's stupid. You know, they have these stupid little t-shirts. And looking back, I'm like, kids, you have no idea what you were saying. Like, like, to mock these, like, they say the devil and just make. Like in your mind, like, you know, he's nothing, which in a sense is true, but not true at the same time. Like there's there are things to consider when trying to insult the leader of the opposition of God. Yeah.

And absolutely. And so I get the sense that whatever this thing was, it gives me, and I've heard lots of stories. stories, you know? And I'm not sitting here scared and I'm not sitting in my, like, we're in my studio right now. It's 8 o'clock at night right now. I'm the only one in this building. I was the only one in this building when I pulled up. Like, I'm not scared right now, right? But I get the sense that whatever this thing was is more powerful than you could even, that, than you can even relate to me today because you didn't even experience the full magnitude of what it had to offer. And I, and the reason why I say that is because of what happened after that night. You know, like the imagery that you shared with us

where you have a friend, and I'm going to summarize, you know, of course, feel free to fill in the detail, but you have a friend that's driving a car, a thud on the back hood, and what you described sounded like something very large, strong, powerful, whatever, was toying with the car and what I picture, and this probably isn't what happened, but what I picture is something large, powerful, grabbing the car by the sides, scraping its fingers down or its nails down the side as it's driving,

and then just taking its forehead and going, bhapped, right on the hood, right on the back, the trunk of the car, and like, go ahead. Now, like, I let you, I just showed you what I can do, you know. But when you, when you just- A demonstration of- Right, manifestation into the physical realm.

And then there's the friend's house with the running the fingers or whatever over the siding and the visions that people were having. Like, I get the sense that this thing was way more powerful than you can even convey because of it not showing or maybe being able to show what it's capable of. Maybe there were boundaries put in place that it just couldn't perform. I don't know. But all that rambling, what say you, my friend? I think something very similar to that. Because my, I guess, paradigm of how I see something like

this existing is no longer a question of like, was it? Did you see it? Is that what you think it was? It's without question. The next point of examination for me, in retrospect, in the time that it occurred, whatever point of reference we're looking at this from was, I can, stand out in the front of my yard and end up in King's Supers or end up in another place or just like something out of B-Witch popped to a different place. And if we're talking about something that a bunch of stupid high schoolers were able to potentially aggressively, I don't know how our presence was interpreted, obviously didn't ask, don't want to ask, don't want to know the answer to. But how we affected it by us coming into, it's, what,

call it its area, must have been either strong enough in the sense of us fueling it. Maybe our, I don't know if like your spirit can can give power to something and then it's able to follow that. We'll call it like a power source, right? Or whatever. That's maybe how things get attached is kind of one perspective I have. But the other perspective I had too is if we just basically pissed something off by, you know, not being respectful and really, honestly, just by kind of trespass.

into an area that had largely been untouched for years and years. It's not like 30 years, but it was like almost 20 years that no one had gone in there not to turn a light off or to close a window or to change the thermostat, but to go in there poking and prodding and trying to make something show up throughout the entire building. And then it followed us out of an act of aggression. That's perspective too. whatever it was number one or number two, it had to have had the capability

and the site, I'll call it site, because to really like paint the picture, to really paint the picture, if you just like brought someone, let's do this with like a living person, if you just brought someone from England and dropped them into the center of my town,

I said, give me your phone, go to King Supers. Number one, what's King Super? Number two, where the hell is it? The sense of something that had never been, didn't know where we lived, didn't know who our friends were by way of how we communicate, texting, writing, calling, talking, telling a person, but was able to make that connection outside of us being the conduit is, it's startling.

Because the actual implication of something being able to go. to these locations, find these people, know that they found the right person, and then instill these senses of fear and poltergeist-esque when it started out levels of activity, I believe speaks to the strength of what this was and why for the longest time I had kind of a quiet fear of it because I thought, just thinking about it, make it come back, if I think about it? Will it know if I'm thinking about it? Will there be repercussions to that? And it's been a very long road of like exposure therapy to this specific instance, this specific story and that adventure, if you want to call it that, that it was like a baby steps for

me to get to the point that you spoke where you are talking about these things, not being afraid to kind of analyze it that I have found myself comfortable kind of addressing that. Yeah, we all have a path to get into that. to that point of comfortability. And I think there's a lot of people who don't get to that point. For me, I don't think I would ever got to that point if it wasn't for

the way all this kind of came together for me in a very supernatural sense. I'm very determined that there's a very large picture as to why I do what I do. And it kind of subdue any I think it subdues any kind of fear that I would have

had. And I just believe that when my time is done here and it's time to close the chapter of this chapter of my life, I think God will tell me, hey, it's time, it's done. Until then, I'm just going to go full force and see what happens. I will, to your point, I don't mean to interrupt you, but if I don't say it now, I'm going to forget it.

I have never largely thought of myself up to that point as a religious person. I wouldn't say that I'm religious now, but this experience had when I told you earlier that it didn't change my life in any major way I would still say that that is correct I don't feel like it majorly changed my life but one thing that it did do was it opened my mind and made me now far more spiritual

than I had ever been. Everyone's definition of spiritual I think is completely subjective to their own perspective and to their own point of view. What does that mean? Does that mean you believe in some things? things, some things, you know, a guy, girl, or whatever, it showed me that there has to be good things. There has to be good spirits. There has to be, I don't want to call it Casper the Friendly Ghost because I feel like that's

derogatory. And I feel like that's, that is, that is downplaying the, that the sense of, I'm going to kind of falter on that one. But do you understand what I mean? like it made me realize that there is a greater good. You almost have to in my, from my perspective, what we experienced,

I had to see something that was so brightening and so demonstrably capable to kind of open my eyes in that sense. So I wouldn't wish the experience away. It's just something that I'm glad we're done with, essentially. So you think. No,

but I, I agree with you what you're saying. I understand what you're saying. And you know, and you were talking about everybody's perspective and everything that I mean, my perspective I've made clear over the years. I'm a Christian. And I think that the supernatural realm is very real. Demonic influences. Bad Elohim is how I'll describe it here. Lucifer, Satan, all that, right? But there is the counter to that, right? There's God. There's the angelic beings. Those are just very fundamental way to look at it. but the Bible talks over and over again about how angels are here with us doing work on our behalf.

So there is the counter to that. And the more we look into and the more we understand, personally understand, the existence of the supernatural realm and the complexities of it and all that, I think the more we can find comfort in knowing that there is the good aspect that is working. on our behalf because certainly you of all people would know that, well, there are bad things that are working against us as well because what you experienced was just that. The friend's house that you were at and you go outside and you just real fast, I think you said it was like even half a second. It wasn't even a full second. Do you still have the video of that night? I may. And, the only reason I have a copy of this one is for the longest time,

I wanted nothing to do with this. It existed, I thought, for a very long time, only in my memory. And probably, I would say, by way of when this occurred to now, it was relatively recent. About five or six years ago, my sister was getting rid of a computer. She's, like, heavily into online gaming and has always, like the most up-to-date computer was about to get rid of a machine and was just about to go through her files. And one of the first things she said on a folder somewhere just happened to be the

place that she started looking was this file. And she had called me and said, do you want this? Because I'm about to get rid of this machine. And I thought about it for a minute while we were on the phone. I didn't need to like have a day to think about it. I just kind of thought, you know, There's not, I guess, probably, to my knowledge, any real harm preserving it and just kind of having it in case I ever decided to revisit it decided to talk about it. So based on my intentional neglect of what we had, it's possible it doesn't exist anymore. But I would have to look. So if you had the video, though, would we see this shadow that you described? So on the video, you can kind of make it out, but it's a little, it's a little convoluted or blurry or fuzzy.

What I had banked on was seeing something for long enough with a light on it that like you, I'm sure you have security cameras. I have security cameras. You usually got like three modes. You have daytime mode. You have night mode or you have auto mode. I'm going to use this as an example. auto sometimes if you go to auto it can flick back and forth between full color daytime mode and then going to the gray scale of that little tiny infrared or ring of infrared lights so my presumption was i'm going to hit this thing with the light and it should take about a second or two for your camera to okay boom kind of go from the darkness of this sulfur street light walk of creeping out the front door to the corner of the house and look back and we'll be able to catch something but what ended up happening was really on the video, just a burst of light, just a burst of light from the

flashlight, and only on the far right corner. It would still be useful to have for purposes of describing. There would be just this little tiny, kind of a fuzzy dark void. Like if you aimed a camera up towards the sun, the sun goes black. You can see light everywhere else, but it's just black. That might actually be a good way of describing it, because all you see in that little tiny area is just a tiny little bit of dark, unpixelated black screen. And then the rest is just kind of him standing there and the camera kind of falls down by his arm and it sounds. And that was pretty much it.

But I still have, man, the day, the day that you can hook your head up to something and say, here, I'll show you it as I remember it and be able to show a video from your memory or imagination or whatever, it could get a little murky in that regard. That would probably be the best way that I could share it. But it's up here for now. Yeah. I was just talking to somebody.

It might have been my wife today about the, maybe my parents, they're visiting this week too. But I was talking to somebody about the idea of being able to peer into somebody else's dreams and being able to see their dreams. I think that one day that will be a possibility. And what you're describing is, I think absolutely going to be possible.

now it's good for me personally it's going to have to be like a machine peering into your mind recording it then relaying to me on like a screen because Homeboy ain't connecting to your brain all right not doing that that's right rightfully so yeah that's some that's some neurolink stuff that I'm not messing with all right like you know Elon some days he's a savior some days he's the antichrist I have no idea what he is but he's not he's not a friend of mine that's for sure so I second that sentiment. Yeah. It's just,

he's very confusing. That's what he is. But, yeah, I just think that this whole situation is just fascinating. And I just want to hit on this, too, before we bring this in for landing. Because I feel like I can ramble on just hitting these topics over and over again with you, you know, in a very unorganized way. But your friend's car accident, she described. seeing a seven-foot-tall thing in the road, right?

And that's what caused her to swerve. Yes. You also saw something that was seven, eight feet tall outside the house, right? Yes. Was there any other situations that you shared with us today where somebody, whether you or somebody else, saw something that was seven to eight feet tall that I'm not remembering? Yes.

My friend who asked originally about what we had done in the school and then a day or two whenever it was later came and said, no, what did you actually see? What did you do in there? Because my mother is waking my father up every night saying that there's something at the foot of her bed and kind of like blocking the outline of the streetlet window through the curtains. So it was not all of us that had seen this exact characteristic matching entity. there was a few of us that our descriptions lined up identically.

And it was in my head, because of how long this seemed to go on, in my head, each situation was a different person that saw it. But in actuality, it was a small sect of us that saw something that could fit the same description. More people had poltergeist-esque-style activity occur, than seeing something that fits the same description of which that was a handful of people. And actually, largely, the whole school, when these tray holders, if you call them not on wheels, were toppled over. But not too many people saw it or could say that they had something that remotely fit the description of it.

It's fascinating, man. Something was unleashed in that school. and you guys found it. And I poke the hornets nest. Yeah. And I'm glad you thought enough to email us to see about coming on the show to share

because these kind of stories, man, they get my brain turning. They get my brain turning because there's so many facets to it. There's so much that goes into it. And I really believe that stories like yours need to be heard because it allows me, people listening, people who are far smarter than me listening, start connecting dots. They can listen back because like right now you and I are talking. I don't have the opportunity to hit rewind and listen back to that again. They can listen back and pick a piece

details, little tiny details that maybe they've heard in another episode or they've experienced and they're just like, okay, so that makes sense now why I had this experience because of this. And with what you shared today, you shared so much detail about a story that I think that it helps a lot of people piece things together. The supernatural realm is very real. And people are experiencing it. And some people have experiences with the supernatural realm and it's a positive experience or they view it in a positive way. And then there's people like you who have these experiences where it's far from positive. But it is enlightening.

You had this experience, and here we are 14 years later, and you are still talking about it, but whether you think it did or not, it does shape the way you view the world around you because there is no denying what you went through. And the fact you walk through life knowing that you experienced for a period of time the supernatural realm here on earth, it has to shape. you in one way or another. Whether it's subconsciously, consciously or a mix of both, it does shape a person's perspectives on reality. And I just think that it's very important for people like you to share that because it allows other people to start feeling comfortable within

their own skin. Like the email you sent to us, let me see if I still have it up here. Yeah, the subject line for the email just says, I have a story to tell. And that's exactly it. You had a story to tell, and your story is now going to allow other people to feel like what they've experienced. Maybe they're not so crazy. Maybe they understand things a little bit more. And I appreciate you doing that. I appreciate you coming forward and shared because, I mean, clearly, the way you've described things, this is not something you really make a habit of going back on and getting involved in and talking about and thinking about a whole lot. rightfully so. I mean, based off of what you experienced, that I would probably be refraining from

giving it too much attention as well. It's just like, you know, like my sister yells at the school from a few blocks away and all of a sudden we get hit with the breath of wind, try not to think about it a whole lot, you know? Absolutely. Just try to give it some sense of distance and like, you're here. He, it, they is over there. We're intending to not ever cross paths again. But I will tell you this. I have listened to your podcast for the longest time. And the more that I listened to it, the more that I heard people sharing stories that were so, it was in many instances, affected them so deeply, but were able to say, okay, you know what, let's have a conversation about it. That that was part of the kind of baby steps that I personally took to kind of hear other people's

stories and say, you know, I think I'm at a point in my life where I'm comfortable talking about it and still gives me goosebumps. I'll probably think about it for the rest of today and part of tomorrow, but it doesn't have as large of effect on me as it used to. And call it exposure therapy, call it coming to terms with what it was that you experienced. But it was largely by the vehicle that is your podcast that kind of brought me to the forefront of, I'm ready to talk about this now. That's encouraging. That's encouraging for me to hear and hopefully for other people to hear as well. And if anybody's listening

that has a bonker story that you should have emailed me yesterday. Let me come on. Let's go. Like, I want to talk about it. But, no, in all honesty, I mean, the imagery as this story unfolded today, paired with when you brought up the gym in the 80s vibe. I was just like, this really does give me this stranger things vibe.

And so, shoot, maybe we'll make a movie out of it one day. Who knows? but uh option it for a movie right yeah uh i'll talk to about it off air uh but uh yeah david man i appreciate you coming on and sharing this stuff uh this was really really um it was a good conversation and a great entertaining fantastical story for people to hear and uh definitely hopefully opening eyes up to the realities of the supernatural realm so uh thank you for that absolutely thank you for having me It was great. All right.

Well, everybody, that's the show. If you enjoyed it, please share the show with your friends. I don't care where or how you share the show. Just share the show if you enjoyed it. And until next Tuesday, stay safe, take care, and remember, the truth will set you free. But first, they'll piss you off. Bye.