The Confessionals - 617: The Meadow Project

Episode Date: January 16, 2024

In Episode 617: The Meadow Project, Tony interviews Trey Hudson, author of "The Meadow Project: Explorations into the South Skinwalker Ranch". Hudson shares his intriguing experiences and research into a mysterious location in the American South, known for an array of unexplained phenomena, akin to Utah's Skinwalker Ranch. The discussion gets into Hudson's military background, his transition to paranormal and unexplained phenomena research, and the fascinating encounters in the meadow, including walking into portals and witnessing otherworldly events.Hudson recounts captivating stories from his investigations, including the sighting of a UFO and strange entities, mysterious orbs, and the intriguing discovery of a large, cube-like anomaly in the meadow, visible through thermal imaging. This cube, colder than its surroundings, seemed to alter reality for those who entered it. The episode also touches on the potential connections between these phenomena and quantum events, suggesting a deeper, perhaps interdimensional, aspect to these mysteries. Hudson's detailed, firsthand accounts provide a compelling glimpse into the unknown, stirring both intrigue and speculation about the nature of these unexplained occurrences.Trey Hudson: "The Meadow Project: Explorations into the South Skinwalker Ranch"The Confessionals Members App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZBecome a member for AD FREE listening and EXTRA shows: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinWatch The Shape of Shadows: https://www.merkel.media/stream-nowWatch Expedition Dogman: https://bit.ly/3CE6Kg0SPONSORSGET FACTOR MEALS: factormeals.com/confessionals50GET UNCOMMON GOODS at 15% off: uncommongoods.com/tonyGET EMP Shield: empshield.com Coupon Code: "tony" for $50 off every item you purchase! Listen to this episode for more information! Link: bit.ly/3YaMD1NGET SIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsGET Hello Fresh: hellofresh.com/confessionalsfree Promo Code: "confessionalsfree" for FREE BREAKFAST FOR LIFE!!!Get Emergency Food Supplies: www.preparewiththeconfessionals.comCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] to the Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/the-newsletterMAILING ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIDiscord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelOUTRO MUSICJoel Thomas - Walking In My SkinYouTube | Apple | Spotify

Merkel Media This was all circulating around the base that a giant had to kill but no one was supposed to talk about it I saw three long, bony fingers reach up underneath the door curl up to grab it and then disappear

When he came over to me dude he slithered over to me and this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen and he starts running and firing up this giant. With a giant move, he's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast. And spears, Dan, holds him up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face. They basically decapitated.

Feel something pulling at my leg. And I look over, and there are two small spush, and because I know I'm seeing a monster. Welcome to the show, everybody, you're listening to The Confessionals podcast. I'm your host, Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here. If you've a crazy wild experience, you want to share a me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is contact at the confessionalspodcast.com. That's contact at the confessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, the confessionalspodcast.com. Hit the contact section and you can reach me that way as well. Either works for me, just get a hold of me. If you want more shows on a weekly basis, go to the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the join button and become a member. You'll get access to the member shows every Thursday. The Tuesday shows add free

and access to the overtimes when they're available right there on the confessionals podcast.com and on the members exclusive appi. Thanks for being here, everybody. If you guys love this show, you might just love the documentaries Merkle Media puts out. So go ahead check out Merkle. We have two documentaries on there now. The Shape of Shadows is what we came out with late last year. And our first documentary that we ever did was Expedition Dogman. Both are available on Merkel. Media, an expedition dogman available on Amazon, Tobe, Apple, and The Shape of Shadows is following right behind for public platforms very, very soon. Today we have a great show coming for you guys. We have Trey Hudson coming on the show, and he is the author of the Meadow Project Explorations

into the South Skinwalker Ranch. This guy has stumbled across an area that has a ton of resemblance to Skinwalker Ranch in the South, and he's been researching it with his team. They've had a lot of experiences where team members seem to turn into balls of light and then travel 25 miles an hour across a field and then turn back into a human when they radio in. They're like, yo, dude, you good? And he's like, yeah, why? What? That's crazy. So he talks about all these things, them walking in the portals and how the environment changes around them. It's a bonkers, bonkers area that they're researching. And I want to share with you guys. So let's get to Tray right now. All right, today we have a great guest on the show. We have Trey Hudson, sir. How are you?

Wonderful, wonderful, happy to be here. I'm glad you're here. This has been a process. This has been a process. It has been. Oh, it has been. Yes, definitely. It's been a lot of hits or misses, but I'm glad we're finally able to link up and get together. Yeah. No, I heard about you, I believe it or not, I think it was from a guy named, he goes by Midnight Mike. He has a podcast called Our Big Dumb Mouth. And he says that he makes his show for, other podcasters essentially, but I think it's a fascinating show for anybody where he basically covers weird news of the day. And he has a good cast of guys that he talks about it with. And they've been doing it for a very long time. And I believe he brought you up to me and

told me about your book. And I purchased it right away. I was like, I got to check this out. And before I get too far into everything, I'll actually bring up your book right now. you are the author of the Meadow Project Explorations into the South, the South Skinwalker Ranch. And man, this book is just awesome. And I just, I want you to take a second here to talk about the book, but also build up people, to people, who you are, like your resume and where you come from in life. Yeah. You know, the book, as you talked about, is the Meadow Project.

exploration into the South Skinwalker Ranch. And what that is is at the location here in America's Southland, which is just rife with high strangeness and folklore, a lot of Scots-Irish culture and folklore down here. And it's one of those really weird locations that we just happened to stumble across. And as the phenomena started stacking up, you know, I had an epiphany, you know, after, you several months of investigating this and looking at the, you know, the hodgepodge, the smorgasbord of phenomena that, like, this place reminds me of somewhere in Utah.

What's the name of that place again? It's in Uinta. You know, where is that? Oh, yes, Skinwalker Ranch. And of course, you know, I'm, of course, I'm being, you know, kind of silly on that. But, you know, I've read the George Knapp and Keller's book and, you know, some of the other stuff. And it just, the similarities were just really, really neat. So during COVID, I decided I was working from home and decided I was going to start

breaks. I was going to start compiling my field notes into some sort of digestible, easy to read, you know, compendium. And when I was about 30,000 words into it, I'm like, wait, this kind of looks like a book and was able to find a publisher, a wonderful Philip Mantle there in the UK published it for me. And so that's how the book came about. That's wild.

I think that happens a lot for people. I have a friend, his name is Charlie Robinson, and the book that he first wrote, kind of happened that way. It was just compiling things, and then it just evolved into a book. I had another friend who had a bestseller, and it started out,

him just writing his emotions down about society and culture in a diner at midnight, and then he went back a second night and a third night. And then it was about a year of him going to this diner at midnight when his family's sleeping to what turned into a book, you know. And so I think a lot of times that happens for people. What about you personally? Before, you know, the book and everything, you have a very extensive military career.

Yeah. You know, what I tell people, you know, is I am an ordinary guy and I've just had some extraordinary opportunities in my life. I am nobody special. But, you know, my background, you know, professionally is I, you know, as a young man, I was an Eagle Scout. I earned the Boy Scouts 50-mile award three times, you know, backpacking, canoeing, paddling, all of that stuff. So I was, you know, very much an outdoorsy kind of guy. So, you know, got my Eagle Scout, went to a college on an Army scholarship, studied under people like William Roll, the famous parapsychologist, Don Rice, Chris Ann Stuce, a lot of humanistic, transpersonal psychology kind of people at the University of West Georgia, which has a very, very well-known psychology department.

I was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the U.S. Army's military intelligence branch, and I served in the reserves with the 3702nd military intelligence attachment and the 337th tactical exploitation battalion, both of their counterintelligence sections. And I got injured, you know, and I was discharged in 1990 and decided I still wanted to, you know, contribute. So I went to work as a Department of Defense civilian. And during my 34-year tenure, I retired last May, is I've done everything from physical security of non-nuclear missiles and rockets, security of weapons of mass destruction. I oversaw the security for about 7% of the U.S. military's chemical weapon stockpile. I was one of those guys that actually had the access to, you put my

hands on the weapon, you know, I had that level of access. And then I transferred back over to my, you know, my original stuff. I went over back into intelligence and security. And in that arena, I did anti-terrorism operations in Afghanistan, intelligence,

counterintelligence, information security, security of classified assets and material. You've been to, you know, tons of schools and courses and all of that. And, you know, just retired as the chief of intelligence of security at one of the organic industrial bases in Department of Defense. And, but what I tell people is I retired from my job, my J.O.B.

And now I'm doing my vocation, which is researching, writing, and sharing these experiences, you know, with other people, such as the Meadow. Yeah. And that's a great way to look at it, too. You know, so I retired for my job of truck driving and now I'm doing my vocation. I like that. So I think that maybe one day I would like to get you up here in studio and we could talk about all that stuff. I find it very fascinating.

And I think if you're listening right now, if you think that's a good idea, let me know in the comments section. Because I find it all fascinating. If the audience is fascinated by the idea of having you in studio to talk about all the background stuff and your military career and just probably you probably have tons of stories from different experiences you've had in that life of yours. I would like to talk to you about it. But today we're talking about the meadow. And I am just fascinated by this for so many different reasons. If we could just launch off and who brought the meadow to your attention again? Well, the meadow, it was kind of a funny story. It's one of those, you know, it's kind of serendipity.

kind of things is I'm a ghost guy. You know, like I said, I studied under, you know, Dr. William Roll. So I'm kind of a parapsychology kind of dude. That's where I, you know, earn my spurs to sort of speak. And, you know, I was doing a lot of a ghost research, you know, paranormal research and houses and businesses and things like that.

And that really started to die off. You know, we just weren't getting a lot of referrals. A lot of people weren't giving me a call. So I'm like, okay, we really need to start, you know, shaking, you know, the bushes, you're both literally and figuratively in finding other places. And I found this folklore about this haunted road, you know, and it's one of those kind of places that the locals, you know, will say, don't go down that haunted road. The haints will get you, you know, where do I want to go? Hell yeah, that's the road I'm going to, you know,

I'm already, you know, I'm already en route. So anyway, we went to this, this road. And it was also an area. When I started looking at the, you know, the folklore of the area, and I started looking at the more recent stuff, you know, Bigfoot sightings, cryptic sightings, ghost sightings, UFOs, and all of that, you started to see a cluster, which is really true in a lot of these locations, is if you do overlays of the different phenomena, you know, and pull from different databases, you know, National UFO Reporting Center, BFRO, whatever, and you start overlaying the phenomena, you'll see clusters. And so that's what we started looking at.

And the haunted road was a bust, absolutely a bust. You know, nothing happened. We heard a quail call at elevation, which was highly unusual. That was, you know, you don't hear quail at, you know, several thousand feet elevation in the winter. So, you know, was that a cryptid mimicking, you know, Bob White? Well, possibly because this area, like I said, has a lot of, you know, a lot of cryptic sightings. So we thought, oh, wow, we heard a Bob White quail call. You know, wow, you know, this is really cool.

So we radioed back to base camp, which was about 30 miles away. We were hitting a repeater and said, hey, you know, we got something really exciting to tell you. And the base camp operator, gentleman by the name of Bob, said, yeah, wait until I'll tell you what happened to me back at base camp. So it's like, oh, okay, now, you know, we're intrigued. So then driving the whole way back, my research department, Daryl and I'm like, well, you know, what happened to Bob? What happened? We got back there. And Bob told us that, you know, it was a picture, you know, a kind of a rainy, grisily night, you know, in the altitude in the mountains, you know, here in America, Southland, January in 2016. And Bob had been drinking a lot of coffee to stay warm, to stay awake while we were out. We always maintain. radio contact with base camp as a safety measure. Well, like, you know, happens so many often, it's, it's the law of fluid dynamics. What goes in has got to go out, you know, so after all that coffee, Bob had to take care of

some personal business back behind the camp. So he goes back there and he's standing there, you know, studying and thinking about the law of fluid dynamics. And he sees the moon come up, you know, a full moon, a bright, loom. luminous disc, you know, like like a full moon. And he's thinking to himself, wow, this is great. You know, I can see the moon now. The cloud they're clearing, you know, maybe this rain will move out and it'll be a nice day tomorrow. You know, it won't be so wet and icky. And then he starts to notice the moon moving sideways, moved from his right to the left. And then it stopped.

And then a small black pinprick appeared in the middle of this. luminous orb and expanded in size, like the iris of a camera, you know, getting larger and large until all you were left was a circle of light, like the, uh, the necklace of diamonds effect during a, uh, during an eclipse. And then it winked out. That was a UFO sighting or UAP setting, whatever flavor, you know, of the month you want to use when describing those. And that was his sighting.

So we're like, well, screw that conded road business. This is where, this is where it's rocking and roll. This is where we want to be. So we started kind of exploring the area and probably about half a mile from base camp. We had this experience was a large field or meadow. You know, probably seven acres in size, you know, a big field, big open field. And we thought that would be a really cool place to start doing our research for several reasons. Number one is it's a big open field with vegetation, excellent track, trap.

You know, anything moves across it. You'll see the track, depressed grass, you know, all kinds of things. It's also open that we can set teams on the periphery of it with thermal and night vision. Anything moving across it, we can also detect. There was a ridge to the north of it, which we could put a team up there in an observation post, and they could look down and once again see anything moving across it. And lastly, since there's also reported our UFO sightings in this area, it's a big open area, anything moving across the sky, once again, we would be able to see.

So it's like, you know, this is a really logistically, it's a really good area to, you know, to set up our research. So we decided to do that. So we went back in July of 2016, and that's when things really start getting weird. It was in 2016. Cliffhanger. Yeah, cliffhanger. No, let me ask you this. Before you get into these, these weird, really weird.

experiences. This is several years, you know, this ongoing investigations. Oh, yeah. The team that you're talking about, I found it interesting how it all, your team came together. And from what I understand my perception with the book, your team isn't just people who were hunting, are all focused on hunting Bigfoot. You know, like, you came into this as a paranormal investigator thinking that these cryptid people weren't really going to accept you and they actually embraced you and your methodologies. And so it seems like it's been a combination of many different types of ways of investigating, and everybody's on the same purpose, just to discover the weird things in its purest form.

Exactly. That is, you know, that's a really good point you brought up because I've met a lot of the team at a Bigfoot conference. I knew one of the speakers, and I was invited, you know, to go as his guest. And so I had on a T-shirt that said something paranormal. And I was kind of getting this weird look from all these bigfoot guys. You know, they're kind of giving me the stink eye. And I'm like, oh, well, no, okay. I'm a big boy.

I can handle it. And then during the break, people would come up to me, you know, in one'sies and twos and they're like, hey, I don't want to be seen over here. But let me tell you about what happened to me when we were hunting bigfoot. You know, we saw orbs. You know, we saw a figure on our, you know, our thermals disappear. But, you know, that doesn't fit into it with the giganticapithesis people. You know, they don't want to hear that.

You know, that's the woo. And so the more I started talking to people, it's like, you can't separate these phenomena. They're so intertwined. And now here we are, you know, 2024, just got done with 2023. And you're starting to see people starting to embrace that. Like, you know, the flash of beauty, the paranormal Bigfoot just came out, which really, you know, goes into, you know, this phenomena. You know, your experiences with Ryan, you know, out there in the U.S. a basin, you know, it's a holistic, you know, a gestalt. It's, you know, it's greater than the

individual experiences, the whole, you know, is much more significant. So that's kind of how, you know, my team looks at it is we go out there with two things we look at. Number one is what's the empirical data? You know, what can we capture on film? What can we pick up on our Geiger counters? You know, what can we detect on thermal, what can we hear audio. That's very important. But equally as important is the experiential nature of it, is human beings are having experiences. And without human beings living this experience,

why the hell do we bother with the empirical? If we're not focusing on human beings, actually living in the here and now at that moment, having these amazing experiences. So we look at, we have one foot in the empirical, one foot in the experiential. We also go about it,

bringing many, many tools from different disciplines, you know, into our toolbox. Like, I'll go out into the meadow and we'll use the Estes protocol, you know, which is, you know, straight from the paranormal research world. But we've used that in this

setting and had amazing results. We have started experimenting with a Quran helmet or God helmet, you know, using electromagnetic energy to stimulate like the amygdala, it calls bihemispherical communications, much like a hemisink in the Monroe Institute. You're very similar to that. And does this increase a team member's perception?

Or does it open up the frequency ban of our perception? You know, things happen to the left and right of our visual acuity. Things happen to the left and the right of our perception. Does it open up that perception enough now that we are starting to experience things a little bit more? And quite frankly, I believe the answer to that is yes. You know, if we can open up the bandwidth, we can experience more. There's a lot more going on. You know, as the barred said, there's more to heaven and earth than in your books ratio.

So, you know, that's kind of the way we go about it. And I, you know, I would tell anybody our results will speak for themselves. You know, we've had very amazing results. The phenomena is evolving. You know, it's not static. It's not always orbs. It's now becoming. different things. And, you know, like you said, it's a multi-year investigation and started looking at it in

2016. We're still looking at it. We have a outing plan for the 25th of January here in just a few weeks. So it's a, it's a, it's a journey, not a destination. Yeah. And that's the, that's the real fun part about it. I just recently found a location, but didn't find it was told to me, that has a lot of high strangeness. It's 30 minutes for me. And, you know, I had an experience there not long ago that was the most dramatic experience I've ever had in my life. And I'm hooked. I'm like, this is my spot. This is where I want to go. And I'm not, I still will say, I'm not a researcher. I'm a hunter for experiences. I do it through my show. I'm not the guy you want collecting data. I'm the guy you want that it's like, hey, I'm stupid enough to go get that experience. That's me. And so, like, this area offers that. And I got hooked immediately. It was no longer a question in my mind. And that's how I feel this area that you're describing is. It's like you're in for the ride no matter how long this ride is because you already know it's there and you're just waiting for the next chapter of the book to be written. That's basically what you're doing.

Well, and literally is I'm literally working on my second book, you know, and we're, you know, that's not a shameless plug. Well, maybe it is. But, you know, it's, and I'm, you know, literally taking experiences that's happened since the end of the first book, you know, and those are going to be a section in the second book, because it's an ongoing journey, you know, and I'm just, you know, I'm just, you know, I'm very thankful and very blessed to be able to take people on this journey, not only through, you know, the book, but through, you know, podcast, and. interviews, you know, radio shows, conventions I speak at, because it's not my story. You know, it's not my experience. It's kind of the world's experience. And I'm just happy to take people along with this amazing journey. That's beautiful. The world's experience. In these fields of, you know, study or research, whatever you want to call it, a lot of times these guys who are doing the research get very territorial over the ideas, the topics, the locations. Hearing you say that's just beautiful to me because that's how I feel.

You know, and maybe I feel that way because I'm the podcaster here. I share the stories with the world. It's the world to have, right? But it does rub me a little in the wrong way when people get like that. I understand territorial in a sense of trying to make sure you protect the sanctity of areas. But the idea that this is mine and I'm holding it, not for that, but just because it's mine and I want it and it's not for you, that that's not what you're doing. You are sharing this with the world. Yeah, yeah. For example, you know, I do keep the site secret, you know, because if the site is disclosed, it's on public land, I can't keep anybody off of it, is if it is disclosed, it will ruin the research. You know, I just won't be able to research there, you know, anymore. So I do, if you come out and research with me, you do sign an NDA.

And what I tell people is, do not disclose the location, but your experience here is yours. That's not mine. That's your experience. And you can share that however you wish. And I've had Katie Page has come out and researched with us. Joshua Cutchin has come out and researched with us. I've got open invitations to, you know, Ryan Skinner, trying to get him. him to come down. He wants to come down and investigate. And of course, Ryan Burns, I won't,

you know, if he can come down. You know, I have an open invitation for many, many researchers to have their own experiences, you know, because, you know, I'm not in the world to be, you know, the experience hog. That's, you know, that's not what I'm here for. And the more people that can, you know, have these amazing encounters and look at it from their experiential viewpoint, that just helps me. That helps me try to figure out what's going on. And I can get different eyes, you know, on target. And from a little bit different perspective, that, the value of that cannot be overestimated. Yeah. What you're talking about is, you're saying it better than I can say it because what you're saying is just rings true to me.

I'm just like, yep, absolutely. I totally am jiving with what you're talking about. Let's move into the as things got weird part now. We left them on a cliffhanger like 10 minutes ago. Let's bring it back in. And let's start moving into how did the weird scenario all unfold for you. I know in the book you mentioned there was a specific night that was like the strangest of your life. We don't need to start there. We could start maybe back in 2016 when you started realizing what the area had to offer. Right. So there I was in the Congo. No, I'm kidding. So there we were in July of 2016. So, you know, we had these amazing, you know, UAP siding, you know, in January.

So it's like, yeah, we'll definitely go back. You know, we'll pick the most uncomfortable time of year here in the South. And we'll go back in the middle of the summer and I see what's going on. So we went back and, you know, like I said, we had identified this big opening, this meadow. And decided we were going to set up our operations there. Our concept of operations that that particular weekend was to have several teams set up in the meadow, you know, with both thermal and night vision. And then we're going to have one of our team members start back at base camp, walk along a half mile trail, you know, to the meadow and then bump across the top of the ridge just to the north of it. And the idea was he'd be able to see anything going on down below him.

And if there was anything on that ridge just below him, he would flush it down into the meadow. We'd be able to see it and experience. So he, you know, his, he had forgotten a piece of equipment back of base camp. hey, you know, radioed back to the teams in the field and back to base camp, said, hey, I'm returning to base camp to get, you know, whatever. And then the next radio transmission from him is he, he said, hey, I just got to the tree across the trail, which is a really well-known landmark. Everybody on the team knows it.

And he goes, I don't remember how I got here. You know, I don't recall walking here. So the first thing that pops into our mind is maybe he had some sort of medical issue. So we get our paramedic, you know, our team medic got on the radio and it was going to do a remote assessment. He said, okay, do you have a headache? No. Are you dizzy? No.

Okay, repeat, Mary had a little lamb. So he repeated that. So there was no, you know, slurring of speech, you know, cognitively, everything was functioning. He said, I just don't remember how I got here. So like so many people, you know, in this business is we have a normalcy bias. and we like to put things into a neat box that makes sense to us. So the normalcy bias on that situation was, hey, he was just focused on what he was doing and was thinking about something else.

It was daydreaming and just didn't remember to get there. Well, you know, that worked for a while. So he got out to the edge of the meadow, worked across the top of the ridge. Nothing happened, dropped down into the west side of the ridge, and started moving towards another team. Now, this team member consisted of, two gentlemen, Bob and Tim, I mean, Tim and Darrell.

Darrell has a degree from the Georgia Institute of Technology, has a master's degree in public administrates from another university, has spent a career in emergency services. So that's that guy. Second guy, Tim, is a veteran of the U.S. Army's 75th Ranger Regiment, special operations guy. I have a dual degree from Georgia Tech in physics and philosophy. My mind just went blank, two-piece, physics and philosophy.

So, you know, very, and he worked in AI kind of research for a big company. So, you know, two, you know, solid, you know, guys, very reliable guys. So as Bob dropped down into the meadow, they brought their thermal. and they see where he is. They can see his heat signature. They dropped the thermal back down. And the right where he was standing, they see this orb of light appear.

And this orb moved very quickly, about 100 meters across the meadow and stopped and then winked out. But they quickly brought their thermal up to where the orb had disappeared. And once again, they see a man-shaped heat signature standing there. So they get on the radio and they said,

Bob, are you okay? and they're watching this heat signature through their thermals, and they see the heat signature bring a radio up to its mouth, key it, and say, yeah, why? What's wrong? So they just saw a team member turn into a sphere of energy move 100 yards or so, and then turn back into a man. And we calculated the distance and the time.

It moved about 26 miles per hour over rugged terrain. So they said, hey, you need to. to come and talk to us. So he's like, okay, I'll, you know, go over there and talk to you. So he meanders over there. And, uh, he says, uh, hey, what's up guys? And they said, you just turned into a ball of energy. And he's like, no, I didn't. I just walked over here.

I said, no, no, no, we saw you turn into a ball of energy and, you know, move quickly and, you know, traverse the meadow and then turn back into yourself. And he goes, you're full of crap. I just walked over here. So. So if we look at that, if we really start to dissect that, you know, there is a quantum event where you can have something exist in two states simultaneously. A good example of that is the dual slit experiment. Light will exist both as a wave and as a particle. So what we were having is reality, and that's a very subjective term.

but reality for both sets of men were different. They both had a different reality, yet their realities existed at the same time in the same place. You know, and one of them, you know, was one of them the observer effect that if they hadn't observed it, would he have turned into the ball of light or no or, you know. So, you know, is it a quantum event happening on a macro scale? And I think if you start looking at a lot of these areas of high strangeness, you'll see quantum type incidences happening on a much larger scale.

So this was something that we experienced. So that by itself was strange enough. And then it just gets even stranger. Back at base camp, our base camp operator comes on the radio. And he says, hey, guys, I'll see you in camp in a few minutes. I see your lights coming over the top of the ridge. I don't know why you're coming over the ridge, but I can see your headlamps.

You know, several of them are brilliant green. And we radioed back to our base camp operator and we said, we're still in the meadow. I don't know what you're seeing. And he goes, hold on guys. And he came back on the radio and says, these lights are about 20 feet over the ground. So he was experiencing green orbs,

you know, above base camp on a ridge that he could see with his naked eye, which is very common in this area, you know, orbs and lights. That's just, you know, almost boring now, you know, when we see them. So we go back to camp, turn in. The same base camp operator had his own experience with the law of fluid dynamics. He had to get up in the middle of the night. And as he was taking care of his business, he sees what people in the Bigfoot world call

tree peepers, you know, something that peeps out around a tree and watches you. And he saw that, you know, watching us from base camp about 40 years. yards away. And the cool thing is, is what he saw was white. And the folklore of this area talks about a white, hairy hominid that people have seen in this area. So it's like it dovetails very nicely in with the folklore. So the next morning, Bob, who has a very easy, retired law enforcement, has a rich history and backcountry search and rescue in California, comes to us with his GPS. He always runs a track line on his GPS. And he says, hey, I want you guys to look at this. And he showed it to us. And his track line were several straight lines. Now, you can't move over

this terrain in a straight line, either on foot or by vehicle. But it was like from point A to point B, to C, C to D, straight lines. But there is a way you can move over this terrain and a straight line. It's in the air. So we did a hypnotic regression, um, early. this month, December, I'm sorry, last month with Bob, on this and some other incidences. And when the hypnotist, the licensed professional counselor,

you know, this is what he does for a profession, got to the missing time. There was a block there. We could not punch through that block. He says, I do not remember anything until I got to that fallen tree. So we went a little deeper. Still a block cannot get through it.

So something happened to block his memory for that missing time. And does it correspond with his strange track lines on his GPS, which one of the track lines showed him on the other side of a small river. He was never wet. He didn't cross the river. But yet his GPS showed him being on the other side. And like happened so many times, you know, in these kind of cases, is we said, hey, when you get back home,

you download the metadata off of your GPS, send it to us, we'll do a further analysis, and by the time he got home, everything was erased off the SIM card. Do you think that that is something that is paranormal or could there be a human element of nefariousness going on with that? Like, do you think that it's possible that there are people, So this kind of, let me, I'm kind of jumping the gun here with that question.

You brought up the white bigfoot, which got me thinking on a new track here where I just have a personal theory. Here in East Tennessee, a white big foot is really well known to be roaming the area. And I, when I moved here, was talking to a local farmer. And he said that when he was a little boy growing up, the old timers would tell him about what it was like around there when they were building Oak Ridge. And it was known as a secret city. They didn't know it was being built. But at that time, there was, they started seeing this white, bigfoot hairy creature running around this area. And in Pennsylvania, there's this legend of this white bigfoot that runs from like east Ohio through North Pennsylvania all across the state. And we theorize that there are, we know that

Raven Rock is there, which is a deep underground base. That's southern, southeast PA, essentially central. But I personally believe there's something up north that we don't know about it. And I started thinking, could these things have something to do with military kind of complexes? And I don't know. And that's why I was thinking that, and I was going to ask you, is there any kind of military complex in the area of the meadow? I don't know if that would disclose too much. In the vastness of the meadow, where mysteries unfold and realities shift, there lies, the cube. The cube holds the power to transform environments and perspectives.

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that I know. Okay. Yeah, and the, you know, some of the focal war predates, you know, the military presence in this area. Sure. Yeah. That's, that's always definitely something to be considerate of is like, what is the history of these legends too? How old and how far back do they go? With Bob, I, have we gotten Bob tested? Does he have like the Skinwalker virus or anything? Well, you know, unfortunately, this is kind of sad, but the one of the people that observed Bob has died. Really? Unexpectedly. And then now Bob's cancers come back.

Interesting. Which, you know, you know, correlation is not causality. You know, I get that. But, you know, but I would be remiss if it, out of him. go back to some of the research, you know, that shows there is a correlation between physiological changes and experiences with high strangeness. Somewhere in my library, I've got a DIA report on that of military pilots that have come in contact with high strangeness that have what appears to be, you know, structural changes

of their body like you would see with exposure to, you know, ionizing radiation. radiation spikes you know we've recorded those you know out of the meadow with no known source so you know I don't know you know what do you make of the the radiation spikes

we we were up in the smokies here a few months ago probably back in the summertime and we got radiation spikes in an area that a really well-known missing 401 case happened and we theorized the idea that there could be dimensional shifts where that people go through and they find themselves in new places and could there be radiation attached to that. And I will say that when we had those spikes happen, it was me and my brother and my friend Brian. Brian was up there all day. We met him

up there in the afternoon. My brother is more wimpy than me, so he can't handle as much. I've got to take that shot there. But we were up there for maybe three, four hours. And the next day, Brian tells me he can't get out of bed. His eyes are on fire. He feels like his skin's on fire. He's like, how do you feel? I'm like a million bucks, bro. But I text to my brother and I said, hey, how you feeling? He's like, I was up all night throwing up. Do you think that has something to do with the radiation spikes? Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I do. And I know the case you're talking about there. And I'm getting ready to throw you a curveball, which is going to open up a whole other can of worms. But I'm familiar with the case that you're referring to there in this great

Smoky Mountain National Park. I'm very familiar with it. I had another researcher friend that was doing his own research and he went to a place in the Smoky Mountains. And he was outside of his vehicle came down with a mysterious bloodborne illness which mimics radiation exposure. But his parents stayed in the vehicle, which acted like, in my opinion, a large Faraday cage. and they were protected. Now, he's fine now, but it took years for them to try to figure out what was going on with him, and they never really came up with an answer. Turn the page.

The meadow is within about 50 miles of one of David Politey's missing 401 clusters. And I have had my own experience of extreme disorientation that corresponded with a radiation spike there at the meadow. Tell me about that experience. well it was uh no let me see i think it was in 2020 i have my notes here but anyway it was uh right after you know one of our teammates died unexpectedly you know and his you know it wasn't like he just died it was a pretty violent physiological reaction to something how he died and uh so we was right in the middle of covid so we decided uh we were going to try to memorial um memorialized. You know, we just wanted to get together and, yeah, this was in January of 20.

We just wanted to, you know, just kind of get together and just, you know, we all needed some closure. You know, it was all really, really sad. So we didn't have a full team out there. And my research partner, Kristen, and I decided that we, you know, while we were there, we were going to go back out to the meadow and we were going to do some baselines. You know, we're going to take EMF baselines, radiation baselines of areas where we have had high strangeness like the cube and the pole. portal and all of that. And so we worked our way around the meadow. And like I said, there's a small river, you know, there to the south of it. And we decided we were going to cross over this and explore the other side. So, you know, we cross over it. And so I cross over this, this big stream or small river.

And I come into this big feel. And I'm like, wow, this is really cool. And I'm like, hey, Kristen, you know, I'm yelling back across the creek here. is really cool. I just discovered another big open field. You know, we can like do concurrent, you know, investigations on both sides of the river. And, you know, this is just really neat. This is a whole new research area. And she goes, what are you talking about? And I said, no, it's like really cool. It's really, really neat. And so she says, stay there. I'm working my way over to you. And we'll talk about it. So I'm like, I'm just really geeked out about it. You know, so I go, I sit down on my log and put my boots

back on. And I'm just like, you know, this is really cool. she makes it over back over to me and she goes what are you talking about i said isn't this cool this is you know like this new play she goes tray you're in the meadow like no i'm not she goes no you've been here like 30 times before where you came out is where we crossed and this is going to sound weird and i'm going to try to articulate the best way i can is when she started explaining that to me it's almost like things shifted back into phase. It's like the environment started kind of moving back to something I recognize. And so, of course, she was really concerned.

She's an ER nurse, and she's radioed back to base camp saying, you know, Trey's having some really bad disorientation here. And they're like, you know, is he conscious? And I was like, yeah, he's conscious. He's just really confused. And they're like, oh, you know, you need to come back to base camp. And I said, okay, everybody, don't talk to me. Just give me 10 minutes.

Just let me get my feet back down on terra firma. And like I said, the environment changed back to something that I knew. But we looked down at our Geiger counter, and when all of that was going on, we had a spike of radiation. The background radiation there is somewhere between 0.06.09 microceivrets per hour. the spike was 0.33 microce per hour, which is, you know, I mean, that's something to take notice of. Happened at the exact same time. Now, if we hadn't had the protocols after Bob's missing time, our protocols were nobody goes out by themselves anymore. If I hadn't had a research partner with me, would I have ended up as one of David Polite's chapters in one of the missing 401 books?

You know, is this something that's happening. And like I said, this is only about 50 miles from one of his clusters. Wow. everybody's pulling out there missing 401 maps. And I was saying, oh, which cluster is it? I'm not going to tell you. But, you know, is that what's going on? You know, is there a correlation between spikes of radiation, high strangeness and extreme disorientation?

I would say probably. And so that's, you know, and I did get a chance to talk to Eric Bard, you know, and I said, hey, you know, we're going down this radiation route. And he says, no, I think, I think that's reasonable. He said, that makes a lot of sense to me. Have you ever had a chance to talk to David? Polities, no, I've actually sent him a few emails, and, you know, for whatever reason, we've never been able to connect up. So, you know, David, if you're listening, you know, I'd love to talk to you about it because I've got a lot of questions and I might even have some answers.

Yeah, I mean, I would love to talk to David Politis, but I know he's a busy guy. Yeah, yes. I just figured I'd ask you in the off chance that you had a chance to tell him that this, he what he had to say. I, so I hear your story and pairing that with just my own coming into today's conversation, preconceived thoughts on matters and my experiences with talking with other people and their experiences. Let me present this idea to you. And I don't think it's going to be too far, foreign to you. You may not agree with it, but I don't, I don't know if it's not going to be like, whoa, I've never heard of that. To me, when I hear that, to me, when I hear you. I hear it. I don't, I don't know,

hear stories like that, I tend to go down this route of, is there a dimensional shift going on? And could there be spikes happening with radiation in these dimensional shifts? I do believe so. Because I'm uneducatedly pairing radiation spikes with portal locations. Is it possible that you found yourself in this middle ground where you weren't totally on the other side of this shift, but you weren't on this side either. And it literally took somebody coming to get you to pull you back to the right side.

And if that didn't happen, like you said, you might have been part of the missing 401 kind of cases. Do you think that there's some kind of dimensional shift that's happening here? It's not just a psychological thing where people are getting disoriented and they're just wandering around aimlessly and then they eventually die.

But rather, there's literally this, that they were here, but now they're not here anymore. Yeah, I think you're spot on. And because several reasons, you know, that was exactly what we experienced when we had the Cube or the portal. Is that once again, there was a two existences, two realities existing at the same time, you know, when that happened. I think David Polite's is even starting to kind of look at the, the, the, portal, you know, explanation or theory, not an explanation, as, you know, a possible reason, you know, for these people's disappearances. Where it gets also, excuse me, where it gets also strange is the exact spot where I crossed back over the creek and became highly disoriented.

We had found, and it's in my, I have a photograph of it in my book, a sapling on a small island in the middle of this this large creek. And this island probably is like six foot by maybe two foot, like a little tiny, you know, little lump in the middle of the creek. And there was a sapling about an inch and a half in diameter, about 12 feet tall and something had taken the top of the sapling and tied it into an

oval, like the top of an onk. Okay. And it's just like sitting out there. And you could get a ladder out there. You couldn't bend the sappling. over, but something had tied an oval in the top of the sapplet. Now, an Ank is a representation of a very old archetype of a keyhole.

And all throughout the world, there are places where you'll see this keyhole motif, which is a symbol or representation of a gateway or portal to something else. So, you know, was it an accident? some sort of freak of nature that causes sapling to have a perfectly secured, you know, two ends of it tied over into an oval at the exact location where I experienced this strange disorientation, which was only about 50 meters from where we had the cube or the portal. Is that all a coincidence? Well, in the military, back in the intel business during the Cold War, we said first time is happenstance, second time is coincidence, and third time is enemy

action. So, you know, is this just some weird synchronistic? or are these things all connected? You know, I'm going to go out on a limb and say, I think they're connected. Yeah. No, I mean, like, based off of what you just said, I mean, the sheer, and I don't know if you found,

I had to look it up when you said, I was like, I don't know what that is. And then when I saw it's, oh, yeah, I totally get it. I know it's like, it's the loop, but with the cross, yeah. Yeah. But what you're talking about,

I, when you take this sheer amount of things that are happening in such a confined area, it's enemy action. Whether it's enemy or however you wanted to find, but it's that terminology that just shared, it's like, it's not coincidence anymore. No. And you can go down different routes of suggestion, like, well, you're out there hunting things, so you're, you're mentally putting all your focus in there. And that's why you're causing this to happen. All that can be talked about. But the reality is, like, I don't think that you just so,

that you so happen to be in this area with all this activity and you hit it on the head every time. Imagine how many people have had experiences in this area that just aren't talking about it. Have you come across people in the local area that... Oh, yeah, yeah. I have people that, you know, in this area. And, you know, it's important to also, you know, for everybody to understand that the meadow is an epicenter. But we're talking about high strangeness that goes out in a radius of several miles. You know, we've had other really weird experiences, you know, several miles away from the meadow.

And I'll talk to people, you know, local people, I say, well, let me tell you what happened, you know, to me. You know, one of them was a guy was out hiking with his father and brother, and he lagged behind, you know, his brother and father. And he, you know, as he was tying his boot or whatever, he looks over and he sees, and this is where it gets weird, is he saw something that looked like a, a panther or mountain lion, but it was made up of triangular pieces of mirror. Like this weird prismatic kind of thing, this creature. You know, and this was in the area, you know, near where this happened. Near where the meadow is.

So there's like, you know, tons of, you know, tons of examples of this, you know, all over the place in this area. So, you know, are we causing something? No. it's existed before we got there. And then there's a whole other rabbit trail I can go down on, you know, what that is, you know, what's causing that. Of course, you know, theories are galore and guesses.

But, yeah, it's a very special area. And you talked about, you know, the area that you're familiar with being 30 miles from your home. What I tell people, go out there, do the research, you know, go to the library, you know, go to some of these databases, which are now becoming, you know, digitized. Do your own research. And what you might find out is you have one of these places. is in your backyard. Now, how freaking cool is that? You know, one within, you know, 30 minutes of where, you know, your listeners are sitting right now, they could have their very own place.

But it just takes the research and then the, you know, the effort of doing the boots on the ground, actually putting yourself out there and letting these experiences happen. Yeah, when I started podcast, before I started podcasting, I spent almost every weekend out in the woods looking for this, this hairy primate that I thought was just, out here we couldn't keep up with. I'm so far from that thought right now. I'm like, no, it's pretty sure it's interdimensional at this point. But I was a truck driver on weekends. I would go out. I didn't have kids. My wife didn't care. I'd leave the house. She's reading a book. I'd get home and she's finishing that book. That's the way it was. So when I started the podcast,

I didn't get a chance to go out as much, obviously. People kind of, they didn't, they don't know Tony, the guy who goes out looking for the stuff, right? But what I always would say to people, people is that, because I would speak at libraries and stuff like that before I was podcasting, I would tell people that if you don't enjoy being outside to begin with, this is not going to be fun for you. Yeah. Because I, to this day, have never seen a Bigfoot. I would love to see one, but I haven't. And if you don't enjoy being out there and the environment, whether it's the environment around you or the idea of what you're doing and how you're out there looking for mysterious things, if you don't actually enjoy that process,

It's going to get boring very quickly. Exactly. I mean, when you're sitting out there and it's 17 degrees, you know, and you know, you've been out there for two or three days already and there's no hope of getting warm anytime soon. You know, that's the real gut check, you know. Now, why am I out here again? Oh, yeah. I love exploration in the sense of adventure and discovery.

You know, that's why I'm out here. And, you know, the folks that are actually out there doing the boots on the ground research, you know, my hat's off to them every single day. because it is tough. It's expensive. It's tough and it's time consuming. And that's where the rubber meets the road. Yeah. Yeah. And if you're so lucky to have a wife that understands good on you, keep that girl around. Maybe she'll come with you. I don't know. So let's get into, you know, this, and it might be jumping out of order and stuff. But I do want to talk about this night that was one of the most dramatic nights for you guys. Yeah. It did involve what you brought up earlier with the portal and the cube. Yeah. That actually was the next time we went out, which was in fact. February of 2017. So, you know, I want to paint a picture here. I want everyone to imagine, you know, if they've never been to America, Southland, you know, that's fine. But imagine a meadow or a field in February in the middle of wintertime at elevation with, you know, no vegetation, you know, everything's dead, cold, you know, that whole thing going on. So that's where we were. It was February of 2017. We decided we were going to. We were going to. We were. We were going to. We were

to use the same MO that we had used before, you know, successfully is we were going to set several teams out there, you know, with thermal and night vision. And we again, we're going to have a team run across the top of the ridge, but this time we weren't going to send anybody out solo. We learned our lesson on that. So we had everybody get set up. The ridge running team, which I was on the team that was running the ridge that night, we started off and we hiked along this trail on top of the ridge and we're looking down into the meadow. And when we get to the west end of the meadow, we're looking down and we see some figures. Now, let me clarify something. We run our operations a lot like a military operation, not that we're paramilitary. I'm not saying that, but we run it similar

because it works, you know, that methodology works. And nobody leaves their assigned spot without permission of the tactical commander, whoever's in charge out in the field. So we know where everybody he's at. You know, and we're very strict on that. So we look down into the field and we see heat signatures. And I'm not going to say they're man shaped. I'm going to say they're man's size, maybe six foot tall, 18 to 24 inches wide. But what's weird about these heat signatures is they start off small, one heat signature, small gets big, gets small, gets big, and then turns into two heat signatures, two separate entities. These entities will play. into some events later on in the evening.

So we have this mysterious entity that we're seeing on thermal that do not correspond with any of our teams out in the field. So we quickly, we got excited. We quickly dropped down into the meadow. We made contact with one of our teams on the extreme west end of the meadow said, you know, they weren't moving around. It wasn't them. I was like, well, this is pretty cool.

You know, we captured on film these, these entities on our thermal. So as we're talking to the other team, one of my FLIR operators comes over the radio and says, hey, we've got something going on at our location. Well, you know, why do you have? He goes, I have been seeing a box or a cube about 10 by 6 by 6 meters. So about 30 feet by 18 foot by 18 foot, more or less. And he says, it started off in one part of the meadow and now it's forming in another part of the meadow. So it's like, hey, we're on our way. So we beat feet over to his location.

And about the time we get there, it starts to dissipate. Okay. And when he starts filming, because you don't run your thermal all the time, you'll eat up your battery. So by the time he started actually filming it, it was dissipating. You could just barely see the outline. What's interesting is this boxer cube was colder than its surroundings. Now, if you go back to ghost folklore, people talk about.

cold spots as being a precursor to paranormal events. So this thing was actually colder than its surroundings. So we decided we were going to dispatch a team to where this thing was. Well, the team goes over to this place where this thing was and we're watching them on thermal. You know, we have them, you know, visually. And when they step into the boundary of where this thing was, they completely disappear off our thermals. They have no heat signature. It's like they disappeared.

We have tried to recreate that. We've gone back in February at the same location, and you cannot hide from thermal in this location because there's no vegetation for you to hide behind. And even if there is, we can still see remnants of your heat signature. We have video of us trying to recreate this to demonstrate that fact. But they completely were gone. So it was so stark that one of our team members actually was recorded saying, did they just disappear?

And while that was going on, one of the other flea operator turns her fleer to the right, and there's a small cost of trees, a very small grouping of trees about 40 yards away. And she says, who or what is that? And it's two upright heat signatures, standing in this group of trees watching us. That did not correspond with our team.

So the team finally comes back out. And so we, you know, we decided, do we want to stay here or do we want to do a after-action review, you know, back at camp while this is still fresh on everybody's mind? Now, we had some team members that came down from the, guest that came down from the Carolinas that we kind of hoodwink them. We kind of made them think that we were looking for Bigfoot. This changed their paradigm, you know, this event. So they were shaken up by it. And so we get back to base camp and we're doing our after-action review. And the individuals that went into this thing described it like this.

They said, we walked into it. And as soon as we crossed the threshold, it was cold. The temperature dropped. And we walked into it and we weren't encumbered or tangled in any way. We just walked straight into it. And it was very dark. It was like being inside of a black velvet bag. You're very, very, very dark.

And we stayed there for a few moments and then we backed out of it. But when we backed out of it, we started encountering branches and brambles and stuff that weren't there when we went in. Same route. So their reality, when they went into the thing, was just shifted just a little bit to where those things weren't present when they went in. But when they came back out, it was more like the traditional environment that we were used to with briars and things like that. And so, you know, they came back out and that was what they experienced. And we have this on video. And to my knowledge, that's the first time that this has been filmed.

And we have about 10 witnesses, you know, just lots of affidavits on what happened that evening. And our entire 40-minute after-action review and debrief is, his own video from that night. You know, we filmed that. So, and part of that transcript of that debrief is in my book, you know, word for word. So, you know, that was a very unique experience. Now, the sad part of that is, like I said, one member that went into the portal is now dead. And the other has had his cancer come back with a vengeance.

That's why. And Bob was the other one, right? Yeah. Yeah. So when you're saying they walked in, like, are we talking about the cube spot that they walked into? Yeah, the cube spot. And in the moment, did they know what they were doing? Yeah, yeah, we guided them to it.

You know, we vectored them to it. You know, they volunteered, stepped up and said, yeah, we'll go check it out. That's, that's wild. And what's crazy is, as you're doing more research, it's a very famous UFO incident called the Higden incident that happened in Oxbow, Wyoming, Oxbow National

Forest in Wyoming. And he described the same thing, a cube or a box in the woods. And it was so

similar that when David Politey's did his documentary missing from one of the UFO connection is they did a recreation of it.

And when they showed the recreation of that cube, the Higdon saw, I immediately got on the phone to

to my team members. And I'm like, what does that remind you? I'm like, crap, that's the, that's the cube in the meadow, except ours wasn't visible, it was on thermal.

That's wild. You know, somewhere in the book, somebody, I think it was during a transcript, somebody was talking about the sounds that Sasquatch makes. And I don't know if it's that you guys heard this and were equating it to Sasquatch, or if you were saying that, what you were exactly saying, but you brought up the idea of how, of owls,

I think it was barred owls, sounding like monkeys. Did you guys have an experience where, because we talk about, you know, Bigfoot mimicking sounds, is that what was being alluded to there or what? Yeah, it was,

it was, you know, our team members talked about hearing the barred owls and, you know, was that contemporaneous, you know, with the area we were in the environment and all of that? We have strange noises are very common there. I mean, even as recently as our last outing, is we will hear disembodied voices, you know, that sound human. And we've also heard something that sounds like what David Morehouse, not David, Ron, uh, Moorhead, Sierra sounds guy, uh, describes as a samurai chatter, this kind of low

kind of mumbling like that. So, you know, we've heard that at the meadow. And, uh, we've heard a mechanical ticking sounds, which are not uncommon in areas of high strangeness. So, you know, we have this whole variety of strange sounds. Now, the barred owls, you know, maybe we're just an owl, you know, but then, again, maybe the owls aren't what they seem. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's a, I'm actually working on a guest right now who has done his entire life study on owls and the significance of what owls actually are throughout history. And so I don't think it's a, it's an accident when people talk about Bigfoot mimicking sounds of like owls. And I do

definitely think that there are people experiencing things in the woods where it's like, that sounded like an owl, but not totally. Yeah. It's definitely, you know, shenanigans going on there. And this,

this area, I'm going to kind of backtrack here because I don't want to go too far away from this. You literally did what we are trying to do with my team. We're literally trying to find a freaking portal and throw Joel through it. Like, that's what we're trying to do. And I know Joel's listening to this right now and he's like steaming because he's like, that should have been me. But I find it fascinating.

And what you described a couple times in this conversation that brought this to my thought, but this specifically, how they walk in, walk out and there's changes in environment. It was the same, but it was different. And I go and I don't know if you watch this show or not. I'm a huge fan of it, but Stranger Things on Netflix. But I use it as an example because I really believe that one pop culture, Hollywood, and these outer layers beyond the circle of our paranormal communities, they hit the nail on the head at times.

And I think that sometimes they do it on purpose. The people in charge know what they're doing. And when it comes to do stranger things and this shift that is throughout the movie where it's like it's obviously it's a portal and you can go into what they call the upside down it's a mirror world and it's it's this world but it's different that's that's what i'm hearing over and over and over again through people's experiences and it makes me look back to one of my favorite tv shows and say hmm i wonder what that guy knew what those bro i think it was the brothers that that did the show and i've looked into them and uh the duffner brothers yeah i think they i think

they know more than what they're leading on, to be honest. Which is kind of funny because I'm actually looking at my Stranger Things lunchbox, which is on the other side of the camera. It's great. Yeah, you know, and that whole was, I'm trying to remember the labs in the show, not Brookhaven Lab. But anyway, it's kind of based on Montauk, you know, there's a whole, you know, mythology of that.

But, you know, it's strange. You know, what drives this? Does popular pop culture drive the phenomena, or does the phenomena drive pop culture? You can look back at the Kenneth Arnold sightings back in 1947 of UFOs, and then that UFOs, flying saucers, kind of popped out into the public consciousness. But, you know, you go back and, you know, there's a lot of talk about cubes now, you know, cube-shaped UFOs and all that. I was doing some research for my second book.

And in the world of alchemy, there's a substance called the, Prima materna, I think that's right, which is prime matter. And there's an etching from the 1600s of this prime material and is depicted as flying cubes, you know, which is really weird that there's this cube motif, you know, once again is there. So, you know, sometimes the truth is much stranger than fiction. Oh, very much. It's Hawkins Lab, by the way.

I had to look at up too. Hawkins, yeah. age something. I know that there is, I think I looked at it and there is no Hawkins in Indiana. I think that's what it is, but there's so many, there's so many things about that show that, I mean, I've never done a show like analyzing that, that show, but one of these days, maybe I should. I talk about it enough. But, yeah, it's just, there, there's really similarities when it comes to these kind of pop culture things. And I, I personally am just in the lane of, I think that some of these people, like Stephen King, I think Stephen King knows exactly what he's doing.

I think Stephen King writes things that he knows is real, and he puts it in fiction books. There are other people that do very similar things. But yeah, you guys walk through portals. Amazing. Let me ask you, have you, and this actually goes into, I think maybe the next part of that night, if I remember correctly, the lady that popped up. Does she pop up the same night? Yeah, that's the same night. I'm kind of going away from that, and I'll tell you why, is, you know, that's the mysterious businesswoman of the forest. You know, we got back to camp.

There was a lady, you know, at camp dressed in business attire, acting very strangely, you know, went to the same university I did, you know, had the same professors I did. She was able to name people that I knew, you know, very strange, very strange. wanted us to stop what we were doing and head into the forest with her down a, you know, a mysterious county road to go search for something she called monkey bears. And so, you know, I wrote that and I've talked about that, you know, in many, many podcasts and radio interviews. And I got a message from a psychotherapist in Istanbul, Turkey, who just so happens to have gone to the same university I went to. And he was contacting me and asking if I knew of a vortex that was, you know, rumored to be in the town where we both went to university. And I wasn't aware of that. That mythology happened after I had left.

And he said, hey, he goes, the woman that you talked about, do you have her name? And I said, yes, I do. You know, I know, I know the name she gave us. You know, we did do a little, you know, internet sleuthing. And we did find someone that appeared to be her, you know, on the internet. He said, what was her name? And I'll say it was, you know, Jane Smith. Obviously, it's not Jane Smith.

And he goes, I think I know her. He goes, would you mind if I contacted her? I said, no, not at all. So he contacted her. She did not want to speak to me. And she told him that she was having a very difficult, a difficult day at work and decided to drive around the forest and knock off, you know, blow off some steam.

And she had driven through during the day and it seemed like a Sasquatch sticker on somebody's truck or something and decided she was going to come back and discuss her monkey bear experiences with us. And but her, the way she acted was so strange that it just wigged everybody out. I mean, to the point where she urinated in front of us. I mean, it was just strange, you know. And, you know, she said, you know, I was just, you know, in my, you know, my, you know, my, you know, My friend said, do you remember anything weird about that evening, anything that people would think would be unusual? And she goes, no, not really. So I'm like, okay, well, whatever.

And then probably four months ago from today, I got a message from her from Ms. Smith. And she says, hey, I want to let you know. If I got to listen to some of the podcast, I am not a mysterious woman in black. I am a real person. And so we started this correspondence. And I said, hey, so what was the thing about urinating in front of him? She goes, hey, you know, when you got to go, you got to go. I said, but you weren't under the influence of some other force or anything.

And she said, no, I'm not the agent of some, you know, other intelligence. I just had a bad day and I was driving around in the forest and I wanted to talk to you all about monkey bears. Okay, take that for what it's worth. it was still a very, very, very, very strange experience. Yeah, I think she's stranger now than she was before. And, you know, it was so strange that, you know, one of my team members who was a career paramedic, he said, I have, you know, it goes in 20 years, I had never encountered somebody acting as weird as she did. It was just so, so strange.

So, you know, I'm, I'm not. not necessarily pushing that narrative as much as I used to because now, you know, it is a real person. I've communicated with this real person. You know, maybe it was just somebody having a very strange day that just happened to coincide with our very strange day, you know. And then she also said, she goes, after hearing the podcast, I did not know what you were, you know, what y'all were doing. You seem very evasive. Now I understand why. And I'm sorry that I interrupted, you know, what y'all were doing.

So, you know, I don't, it's, you know, take it for what it's worth. You know, like, you know, Sigmund Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Right. But sometimes it's not. Absolutely. So is she saying then that the monkey bear story that she told you was just made up, just clowning around? No, no, no. She said, you know, she and her sister, you know, would run around that area, you know, near the meadow.

And they ran across a building, you know, an old dilapidated. building that had something that looked like little combination between monkeys and bears. So once again, that falls right in with the mythology and the history of Sasquatches in that area, except albeit smaller. Yeah, almost like it was the playpen, you know? That's interesting because when you were saying that,

I was thinking, oh, so she just made that up clowning. So she's saying, no, that really happened. It's just I was having a bad day, so I was acting really weird because like she probably wasn't in her, not that she was crazy, but in her right set of mind where she would normally act with the social norms

that are expected of people. She was just like, I'm never going to see these people again. You know, this guy, where are the chances, this guy's an author and going to tell this story the whole world.

I'm just going to act out here. I find it interesting, though, so if the monkey bear story was real and she calling a monkey bears for that reason, just yesterday, I watched a dog documentary about the dogman. And in Kentucky, there's a lot of people that call it bear rilla.

Like, because it's like a, it's like, it's like it looks like a bear and a gorilla. And so like monkey bear, bear bear rilla, there's really something, obviously there in similarity with the descriptions, but is it the same thing? It makes, it really makes you wonder. Well, and, you know, not too far from this area, a friend of mine, he was telling us the story. that his mom relayed to them when they were kids that she stepped out of the kitchen door into their carport. And she saw a monkey walk across their carport with a long curly tail. And they laughed at her. And he said, you know, now that, you know, I'm a little bit older and they've done some more reading.

You know, maybe it's not quite that funny. So, you know, maybe there are some sort of Simeon monkey bears in this area that, you know, are related or are not related to, you know, this Sasquatch folklore, you know, of this region. Yeah. And the funny thing is, like, down here in the South, I don't know if it's like this everywhere in the South, but I know in Kentucky, it seems to be the trend that if you haven't experienced, you just don't talk about it. And I don't quite understand that just from my personal perspective because I talk about everything. But the, this idea that they're having these experiences with these, these, what they call the monkey bear right now in Kentucky. And, and, and,

our bear rillah in Kentucky, monkey bear where you're at. And back, you know, a hundred years ago in Kentucky, they called it the slew foot. There was a, there was a song written about it. And the original lyrics talked about how, because now that the lyrics are, it's a bear running 90 miles an hour, jumping 30 feet, but the original lyrics referred to an upright walking dog. And so we have that legend. And now when you're talking to people maybe in current times that are familiar with the topics,

they're calling it dog man. And it's just like there's a lot of, there's a lot of historical things throughout culture for hundreds of years that point to this stuff is real. And people are experiencing it. And what you kind of go back to what you said like an hour ago about the 50-50 split, where it's like, yeah, we're collecting data. But the human experience is a very important piece of this. I have heavily focused on that throughout my career, the human experience, because I think it is important.

And it really, it grinds my gears when I hear people downplay human experience. Like, oh, well, in trauma, you can interpret things. I get it. Right. But not everybody is reacting to something that really didn't happen. And as much as I like the guy, it drives me nuts when I hear Joe Rogan talking about it. I would love to talk to the guy, but he says it a lot where it's like the human, you can't trust a human experience.

If you can't trust a human experience and you can't trust anything in your life, because everything that people are relaying to you, whether it's their experience with this stuff or their experience in academics of learning and understanding is their experience within that relayed to you. Right, communicating it to you. Yeah. Exactly. You know, and that's a good point because in my presentation that I have on this is I have a

slide and I have a bunch of figures of men looking through toilet paper tubes. On their t-shirts, one says, you know, personal bias, the other says religion. One says culture. You know, one says, you know, emotional hangups. And these are all things that infect the way we experience the world. And those are our toilet paper tubes, you know. And next to them is a picture of the Mona Lisa. and none of them gets the full picture of the Mona Lisa until they take down their own hangups,

their normality bias, you know, their religious bias, their cultural bias, their emotional hangups. And then and only then can they see the whole picture. Now, one of the T-shirts says science is that narrows the way you look through,

you know, your toilet paper tube. And we just have to be very careful on that. You know, exist. The Van Allen belt wasn't known about until the 50s. I think the 40s are the 50s, but it sure as heck existed. I'm sitting right here being bombarded by radio waves. And I can't see them. That doesn't mean they don't exist. Cosmic rays exist, but we can't see them only until we develop the apparatus or the ability through other means to experience and detect these things. then do they become real or were they always real? And then earlier I talked about bandwidth,

you know, that we experience things, you perceive things in a very narrow bandwidth, but that doesn't mean things aren't happening to the right and the left of that very narrow band. And, you know, when I hear people, you know, science people say, well, you know, you're not a scientist.

No, I'm not a scientist. I'm an analyst. That's how I was trained in the Army as an Intel analyst. And, you know, because if I see, I hear the sound of treads, tracks, and I see a large machine moving through, you know, the forest, and I've got radio intercepts that sound like they're coming from a Russian motorized rifle regiment. I can make a pretty damn good guess that those are tanks.

I can't prove it, but I can make an educated guess. And it's the same thing with, you know, with us is, you know, we're making educated guesses, but, you know, the experience is, you know, 50% of that has to be. Has to be. Has to be. Trey, I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. And before we ended here, just let people know where they can get the book. We talked about the book, but where can they get the book for themselves?

A couple of ways is go to Amazon. Type in the search bar, T-R-E-Y, space, H-U-D-S-O-N. The book will pop up called the Meadow Project Explorations into the South Skinwalker Ranch, or you can go to my webpage, Trey Hudsonresearch.com. There's a link on that. You can also find me on Facebook on Trey Hudson-Aschilder. I'm also there. Absolutely.

And you can also listen to the book on audio, which is great. Yeah, you can listen. We've got it on audio, hardback, softback, and it's printed in French, if you probably Le Fronse. Yeah, that's great. I do know we have some people in France that listen to the show. But I have both copies. I have the paperback and I have it on audio.

And it's been, I like doing it that way because I get to listen to stuff. And then when something hits me hard, then I go to the book and I go over and over again. I start looking at stuff that way. But that's the way I read. I do half reading, half listening. But anyways, Trey, I really appreciate you being here.

This has been a fantastic conversation. And we do have to do it again sometime. Absolutely. I have thoroughly enjoyed it and thank you for having me. Well, that's the show, everybody. I really hope you enjoyed it. And if you did enjoy, please just do me the biggest favor in the world and just share it with your friends. I don't care where you share the show, how you share the show, who you share the show with. Just share the show. That's the biggest thing you could do to help this show grow is to share it. And in advance, I say, thank you. All right, guys, until next week, stay safe. Take care and remember, the truth will set you free. But first, it'll piss you off. Bye. Heartless And what is this going to cost us? Just another clocker It's on another carcass

They just say it's home