The Confessionals - 65: The Mysterious Pine Barrens

Episode Date: April 14, 2018

The Pine Barrens are commonly discussed when talking about the Jersey Devil, a dark tale of evil and misfortune. However, though the Jersey Devil is the most discussed topic of the Pine Barrens, that is not the only thing deep in those woods. From mysterious houses with no roads leading up to them to parts of roads that seem to have a mind of their own. Tonight, Sam comes to the table to share her experiences with the eerie woods and also shares what it was like living in a haunted house that neither parent would acknowledge was haunted.  Patreon: www.patreon.com/TheConfessionals Website: www.theconfessionalspodcast.com Email: [e-mail] Facebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcast Twitter: @TConfessionals Tony's Twitter: @tony_merkel

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Say 50% on the new Sleep Number 360 limited edition smart bed plus special financing only for a limited time. To find your local sleep number store, go to sleep number.com. Special financing subject to credit approval. Minimum monthly payments required. See store for details. came over to me dude he slithered over to me and this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen and he starts running and firing at this giant with a giant move he's got a spear in one hand

and he's running really fast and spears dan holds him up like this somebody else shoot him in the face shoot him in the face they basically decapitating got closer got closer got closer got closer when he got about 15 yards away to this head off. And there are two. And each up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. It's almost like they're unzippering our reality. They pick their heads through and they look around and if it looks like the coast is clear, they step through the rest of the direction. If you pick the head, you get the whole package.

If you don't take the head off, then what happens is they disappear. This was all circulating around the base that a giant has been killed with no one was supposed to talk about it. close to talk about it. Far side of the room, and there's Jack. And he's got blood on his face. He looks at me, and he just says one word. Oops. He's longer than most people have careers.

He's in this bush, and I touch air. Couldn't breathe, and I couldn't move, because I know I'm seeing a monster. Welcome to the show, everybody. You are listening to The Confessionals, a proud featured show of blog talk radio.com. I am your host, Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here. If you've had an encounter or a story you'd like to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is The Confessionals Podcast at gmail.com.

That's the Confessionalspodcast at gmail.com. Or you can go to the website, the confessionalspodcast.com and hit the connection section, and you can reach me that way as well. Either way works for me, just get a hold of me. Now, moving on to our iTunes ratings and reviews shoutouts. If you don't have iTunes and you still want to help the show out, go ahead and share this show on social media. That helps a ton and I really appreciate it. But for those of you last week that went to iTunes and left a rating and review, you are C Spooner, Kristen Lynn D. 83, Eli 6695, Summit Evolution,

and Pam Purple Rose. Thank you very much for going to iTunes and leaving that rating and review. It helps out a ton. It means a lot to me personally. So moving on to the Patreon shoutouts. these are people who went to patreon.com backslash the confessionals and signed up to support the show on a monthly basis. For doing so, you get a shout out on social media. You get a shout out on the show, plus a lot of extra perks, a lot of extra perks. So if you're interested in becoming a patron, go to patreon.com backslash the confessionals and check out the rewards and see if it's right for you. But this week's shoutouts is Robin S. Lori M., Dave I, Elijah L, and Joshua N. And we also have two people who signed up for an upgrade.

We have Purple Rose who upgraded and so did Robert G. So thank you very much for going ahead and doing all those things on Patreon. It means a lot to me because it really does help the show keep moving forward. It takes a lot of time and effort. And this is one way you can definitely support the show and help us out to a bigger and better future. And to any of my patrons who have become patrons but did not friend request me on Facebook, the only way you can have access to the secret Facebook group is if you do send me that friend request so we've become friends and I can add you.

If you're already a friend with me, just shoot me a message so that I know it's you and we can put you in the secret Facebook group. Now this week's show, we have two different interviews coming up. The first interview, we're going to be having a guy on named Jim Breslow who has a podcast called Hidden Truth Las Vegas Shooter. And Jim actually has a couple of episodes out now. I think it's close to 10 now. And he actually interviewed Bruce Paddock, the brother of Stephen Paddock, the shooter in Vegas.

Jim has been doing great investigative reporting on this shooting. And I brought Jim on to talk about his podcast and some of the things that he has uncovered. After that interview, we're going to bring on Sam. And Sam actually shares about her haunted house that she lived in with demonic entities. And then later on, after she's done talking about that, we go into some of her experiences in the Pine Barrens of South New Jersey. If you live in the northeast of the United States, you probably heard of the Pine Barons in South New Jersey.

It's a very well-known area for the Jersey Devil. And now she comes on to share her stories after Jim. So let's get to it right after this. All right, tonight I have a great guest coming on. I have Jim Breslo who actually started his own podcasting company. And now he has a podcast that's investigating the Vegas shootings. Jim, how are you? Hey, great. Thanks for having me on.

Awesome, man. So let's talk about, first of all, let's talk about the company that you started and the podcast you started. How did you get involved in all this stuff? I mean, where did this all kind of come from? Yeah, well, it came out of my love for journalism and broadcasting. That was always my dream to be in that business. And I have done a few shows in the past. But my dad kept telling me that you're going to law school and that ended up winning out.

So I blame him for that, but I became a lawyer and was a civil rights lawyer for eight years. And then I left that to run a gaming company, a Las Vegas gaming company. I also blame him for that because we were raised with slot machines in our house. He collected antique slot machines. And magically, I wind up running a slot machine company. So he gets credit for that too. But we sold that company about a year ago and took a year off just to kind of, take an assessment of things and decide what I want to do next. And so I find they said,

you know what, I'm going to return to my original passion and love. And that's broadcasting. But these days, we all know that the new broadcasts are now podcasts. Everything is going on demand. And TV's on demand. And now radio's on demand. So the place to go is podcasting. So I really just decided to start a podcast production company because, you know, I wanted to get back in front of a microphone and try to build a business in a burgeoning business. You told me that you joined it recently and you're doing extremely well. Congratulations what you've accomplished so far. Thank you.

And, you know, I think the sky is the limit for this industry. So it's pretty exciting industry to be in. But anyway, so once we decided, once I decided I wanted to start this and found a couple great partners to do it with, and the question was, okay, so what are we going to talk about on the show. And we really hit upon this idea that, you know, you and I've talked a bit about the fact that the mainstream media has just really lost touch with the stories that people care about. They think that all people care about is Donald Trump, frankly. And, you know, it's making them, it's getting them good ratings. So I get it. But for instance, you know,

my girlfriend is from Ukraine. And I'll always have either Fox or CNN on. And she'll go, Jim, You know, can we put on the news? I'd like to watch the news. I'm like, honey, this is the news. She goes, what do you mean? This is the news. This is just all political stuff about Trump. I want to hear stories about what's going on in the world.

And I'm like, gosh, I hear you. I'm not sure what channel that is. I don't know what to turn it to for you. It just, it's crazy. So so many stories like the Vegas shooting have just fallen off of the radar of these various groups. And so that's what we decided to do is to do deep dives into issues that the mainstream media has just forgotten. And frankly, even when they do cover them, they only cover them in a two or three minute segment. How the heck can you really understand, for instance, the Las Vegas shooting in a two or three minute segment?

So we thought the beauty of podcasting is that it can be relatively nichey. And we figured to be enough people fascinated by this Vegas shooting that if we did a deep dive into it, that we would get listeners. and so far, so good. We're six or seven episodes into the thing, and we've been getting a lot of attention as a result, and I've gotten appearances on Fox and CNN due to our coverage of the shooting, and in particular this interview that we landed with the brother Bruce Paddock. Yeah, so, I mean, your show is called Hidden Truth, Las Vegas Shooter.

Now, the show itself is called Hidden Truth, and this segment you guys are doing is called Las Vegas Shooter. Am I right in saying that? Yes. Okay, cool. And your company, I believe, is called Realcast? Correct. Awesome.

So you're investigating this Las Vegas shooting, and you have some fantastic episodes that you put out already. And your most recent one that you put out was an interview with Bruce Paddock. And, you know, how did you come across interviewing Bruce Paddock as a new startup podcasting company that you're venturing into this deep investigation of what happened that night on October 1st? Yeah. Well, that's why I call it poetic that we're the ones that got the interview because it fits my narrative that the mainstream media has lost track of the story because we went, it was known that this Bruce Paddock, the brother of the shooter, was going to be in court facing felony child pornography charges on a particular date here in Los Angeles. So I sent our reporter out there to talk to him and see if we could score an interview with him. and she was the only reporter there.

And she walked up to him while he's sitting in a wheelchair waiting for his lawyer to arrive and was very receptive to a conversation. He immediately said absolutely no. I'm not interested in talking about my brother. But she's pretty pesky and kind of kept at it and waited till after the hearing. She talked to him before the hearing. The hearing took place and then he's coming out after the hearing. And she talks to him again, goes down and has a cigarette with him.

and ultimately he agrees to give her his phone number and says that give me a call tomorrow and I'll think about it. So she calls in the next day. Now he's back to no, but she kind of wiggles him back to yes. And ultimately I talked to him and he was looking for help finding a lawyer. And because I'm a lawyer, I basically said that, hey, I think I could help you with that. And that was sort of the arrangement. I was going to help him find a lawyer in exchange for him agreeing to do the interview. Okay.

And now you came out with that interview. It's actually a two-part interview that you did. And I believe you just came out with the second part on Sunday, which was the anniversary of the shooting, right? Exactly. Yep. Unfortunately, the anniversary of the shooting fell on Easter Sunday. But we decided to release a podcast that day on the sixth anniversary. And we started with an interview, a very compelling interview, with a couple of victims,

because we always want to keep in mind that that's really who we're doing this for is the victims. They're the ones that deserve to. know what really happened. They're the ones that need to know in order to have closure. So we released, I believe it's our seventh episode. Is that a seventh or a six? Just six. That was a sixth episode. Intro plus six. So intro plus six. It's our seventh, it's our sixth episode, and we posted it on Sunday night, and it has the second half of the Bruce Paddock interview. So the total interview was about an hour. Okay. And when you're interviewing, him. I mean, what kind of things do you think you uncovered with that interview? I mean, obviously,

you go into it, trying to find out what kind of guy was Stephen Paddock and things like that. You know, you're talking to the guy's brother. What kind of details do you think that you walked away from that, that you were educated on as far as, you know, who Bruce Paddock is or even, you know, Bruce Paddock's relationship with his brother? I mean, was it, I'm assuming this was a pretty insightful interview. Yeah, it's pretty intriguing slash fact. fascinating and I do encourage people to listen to the whole thing. We also had some clips of it so you can see the video of it on YouTube so you can actually see what this guy looks like.

But it's the story of the family I think was my biggest takeaway. They were raised to believe that their father was dead. Their father was a notorious bank robber who was on the FBI's most wanted list and was living on the lamb having taking a new name. In fact, he took a new name. Instead of being Benjamin Paddock, he became Bruce Erickson, taking the name of Bruce, who we interviewed as a first name and taking the last name of his youngest son, Eric, Eric's son. So kind of clever. But to learn that these boys were brought into a room by their mother at the ages of between 18 and 24 and told for the first time that your father is alive, that had to be very earth-shattering

for them. And Bruce even said that he didn't speak to his mother for 25 years after that. That's how upset he was about learning of that. But anyway, in the interview, you know, we go through the whole story with him. I walk him through meeting his father for the first time. But, you know, all of it really for me goes to this. theme that we're seeing in these mass shootings where you're seeing mental illness combined with poor upbringing combined with guns being what appears to me to be the recipe for disaster.

And, you know, that's what we saw here in Vegas. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, these shootings are becoming more and more frequent. And it's, it's very disturbing, to be honest with you. We just came out with, or I shouldn't say we, they just came out with that video of Stephen and, you know, showing his movements throughout the Mandalay Bay and such. And that video comes out. And there's a lot of, you know, people saying that, you know, they have issues with it because it was chopped up and they feel like, you know, it was edited in a way that, you know, took out anything

that was key vitally for people to see as far as, you know, you know, I don't think they showed any video footage of him being in getting the guns out of his car, did a bellboy help him carry the guns out of the car kind of thing, little things like that I've been hearing people having problems with. Do you have any opinions on that video? What did you think of it? Well, yeah, certainly it was released strategically by Mandalay Bay. They're facing a very significant potential liability here by lawsuits by the victims. And I think there's serious questions about Mandalay Bay. You know, I'm a big Las Vegas fan. I'm a big fan, frankly, of the Mandalay Bay. Used to be one of my favorite hotels. But,

you know, we're Hidden Truth Show and we're about finding out the truth irrespective of where it may lead us. So my comment about Mandalay Bay is that they were MGM, the owner of Mandalay Bay was the co-promoter of this event. There was 22,000 people at their event across the street from their hotel. And it does not appear to me that they had any additional security in place at that hotel. Maybe they did. I'm sure. they're going to be facing some tough questions in this litigation about that, but I think they've got some issues. The release of this video, I know we interviewed Catherine Lombardo, one of the attorneys for the victims. She was highly upset about it that they would release this to the public in a very strategic way, along with a press release, saying, see, look at the video.

You can tell that there was nothing unusual and nothing that would have pointed us to anything. She thought it was very insensitive to the victims for them to release it that way and to release it so strategically, et cetera. But, you know, we take the video for what it is and what you can learn from it and you do see how he got the bags up to the room. You do see him with the assistance of Belman taking all these bags up to a room and using the service elevator. you know, but a lot of people wonder how the heck Mandalay Bay could have let all those bags go up. And that does connect with my Bruce interview because he's got some theories about that. And I'll get to that in a second. But the other takeaway from the video is that you don't see him interacting with anyone that would appear to be suspicious.

A lot of people are wondering what was going on there. Was he acting alone? Well, at least in the video that they released, you don't see. any of that. The problem is there's no hallway video. And my understanding is there were no cameras in the hallways. And hence the reason we can't see whether anybody went into his room or exit his room at any particular time. So assuming that's correct that there's no hallway cameras, we certainly don't see any hallway video of Paddock in what was released. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. There's a lot of questions surrounding the details outside of that video.

you know, as far as what the movements were and stuff. And to be honest with you, I'm not sure if we're ever going to get all the details from what happened and how it unfolded. But it takes people like you to be investigating this to, you know, have a fighting chance as to finding out what actually happened. Because like we said earlier, the mainstream media is so quick to move on from things. And it takes independent journalism sometimes to actually do the hard work. You mentioned just a few seconds ago about how Bruce went into some details about his own

thoughts and how it all unfolded. Would you care to, you know, detail into that? Yeah. So, you know, a lot of what he had to say, he himself would call speculation, but sometimes the details behind it were, you know, so specific that you're wondering, is this really speculation or not? You have to listen to it yourself to draw your own conclusions. But he was very clear in his belief that this was not the first time that his brother brought guns into a room at the Mandelaide Bay. And his theory is basically that he was meticulous in how he kept his guns clean. It had been reported that he was a germaphobe and that is very common for him to go to

Las Vegas to shoot guns. And in fact, if you look at the police report, he went to a shooting range just two days before the shooting. So this is probably a common thing for Paddock when he visits Vegas to go to shooting ranges and to bring his guns with him. And according to his brother, it would therefore also be natural for him to bring the guns up to his room. And when you got the fact that he's a high roller in getting special treatment, it's very possible that the Mandalay Bay knew he was bringing guns up into the room, even though their policy is not to allow guns. They may have been allowing him to bring them up and hence explaining his casual nature that you see in the video when he's

bringing them up. Furthermore, he might have felt that even if they didn't know that there were guns, if they did discover the guns, he would simply innocently explain, oh, well, sorry, yeah, I was at the range and, you know, I wanted to clean my guns and I was bringing up to the room, oh, you know, my bad. Who knows? Again, because he's a high roller, they may have said, oh, no problem, Mr. Paddock, you know, go right on up. So that was a really, interesting takeaway from the interview and kind of connects to that to the video and helps you kind of explain why he's cool as a cucumber as they're bringing these big heavy duffel bags of guns up to his room. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing. I mean, Mandalay Bay, it sounds like Mandalay Bay has a

lot of responsibility in this situation, or at least possibly responsible for a lot of things that went on. And, you know, that's something that I don't think I've been hearing covered a whole lot. And certainly, even with my show, I haven't talked about it a whole lot because obviously my show is about the victims and they haven't talked about it a whole lot. But you bring up a great point because the Mandalay Bay, if he was a high roller and stuff, we know that they had the given special treatment of these guys. I mean, these guys pretty much had their own set of rules that they walked with. And, you know, you're absolutely right. I mean, it very well could be a situation in that, because I know if it was me, I'd be sweating bullets.

Like, I'd be scared of death, and I'd be shaking, I'd be nervous, I'd be visibly, you'd be able to see it. And he was cool as a cucumber. Well, and the other thing that ties into that is the fact that he brought 18, at least 18 weapons into the room, but he only used two. People question, why did he take the risk of bringing so many guns into the room when all he needed was the original two? And my answer to that would be that, well, you know what?

That shows you that he didn't feel like he was taking that much of a room. risk in bringing all those guns in. Now, it still begs the question, okay, maybe that's a good explanation, but still, why so many guns? Why do he want to, why do he want so many guns up in his room? And many people would take that in a conspiracy direction and say that clearly there was more than one shooter, or at least it was planned that there was going to be more than one shooter. I think you can also go with innocent explanation, innocent explanation being that, you know, he had this love of guns, didn't know which one he wanted to use, didn't know how the evening was going to end up playing out. Maybe he was shooting multiple ones at multiple times.

And, you know, I just playing pop psychologist a bit, child pornography was found in his computer. This guy, you know, obviously to do what he did, he's clearly warped, but he's clearly warped in multiple ways. And, you know, they talk about pornographic violence. This may have been pornographic violence. You know, or it was pornographic Biles, but perhaps he wanted to be surrounded by all of his favorite toys, these guns, while he committed this pornographic event. Yeah, you know, that's a great thought. And, you know, when you're talking about this, you know, one of the things I just kind of thought of just now is, so if he was in the habit of taking up guns into his room and it was just a common. thing. Who's to say that he was just doing a routine thing that he normally does and something happened where he got really pissed off, a life-changing event happening, he said, I don't want to

live no more, and I'm going to take people out with me, you know? Yes. Well, that's sort of Bruce's theory. And I've had multiple conversations with Bruce now, both on and off the mic. So some of this is in the interview and some of it is kind of extra. But he, if you were to ask him to pinpoint a theory, he would say this was revenge. And it was primarily revenge against the casino and against Las Vegas generally. And, you know, he could no longer beat the house. He was trying to beat the house. Maybe he had some short-term success winning and gambling.

But Bruce's belief that he started losing and losing big and his way of getting revenge, was to take it out against the casino and tick it out against Las Vegas generally by hurting them. And he has hurt Mandalay Bay, and he did hurt Vegas through this. So that theory does seem to hold some water as far as whether or not he planned it or not. Bruce also doesn't seem to think that it was planned far in advance. But arguing against that is supposedly he had rented a room outside. of the Lollapalooza event in Chicago a couple months earlier. And he also had a room by the Life is Beautiful event in Vegas the week earlier so that he had

been scouting locations. So that would tend to tell you that maybe it was pre-planned, but who knows? Yeah, well, Jim, I really appreciate you coming on here and talking about the show a little bit. Again, the show is called Hidden Truth, Las Vegas Shooter, and I highly encourage people to go check this out on iTunes. Jim does a great job, very professional journalism with this whole thing and investigating. And Jim, you actually approach it, you don't approach it with an agenda.

You're looking for the truth. And that's the way it needs to be done. And so highly encourage people to go check it out. Check out the most recent two episodes, a two-part series with Bruce, and then go back to episode one and work your way through the whole thing because it's a fantastic show. Before we get out of here, Jim, where else can people find your show outside of iTunes? Yeah, you can go to all of your players, including Stitcher and IHeart, et cetera. And then if you have any issues, go to our website, the Hidden Truth Show.

Sorry, just Hidden Truth Show.com, Hidden Truth Show.com, Hidden Truth Show on Facebook. And we also did it. Just open up a Patreon account to support us on Patreon. Awesome, man. Well, I appreciate it coming on for a few minutes. Thank you for having me, Tony. It's been great. All right, take care.

Okay, that was Jim Breslo, and I hope you guys go ahead and check out his show. Again, his show is called Hidden Truth, Las Vegas Shooter. It's on iTunes. Go ahead and subscribe today. Look it up on their website as well. It's a great podcast to stay informed about the Las Vegas shooting. So next up, we have Sam coming, and she has some stories that you're going to really enjoy. So sit back and relax because you're in for a treat coming up next.

Okay, tonight I have a good guest coming on. I have Sam, and Sam, how you doing? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm doing well. And I wanted to just in front of everybody apologize because, you know, we did have to reschedule this interview a while back. But it was the week that I had my son and you were completely understanding and I really appreciate that. But, you know, sometimes people might think that, you know, I'm pushing them aside. That wasn't the case with you. Not at all. Absolutely not. Your wife was bringing a new life into the world and I completely and totally understand that because my family's pretty big, so I'm pretty experienced

with how the whole baby process goes. And it takes up a lot of time. Yes, it does. I'm learning that for sure. So you contacted me back in November, and you told me that you had some paranormal experiences within a family home and that you also had some experiences with the Pine Barrens in New Jersey. That's South Jersey, which means you're not too far from me. How far away from Philadelphia are you? Well, we have a saying here in South Jersey. Everything's about a half hour. Gotcha. So about a half hour. I always say I'm about 45 minutes west of Philadelphia. So we're not too far from each other. That's pretty cool. So why don't you just walk us into tonight your family's home, how that whole thing developed? What was your first experience there?

Okay, well, the first experience I can remember is about more than 10, 11 years ago at this point. I was 13. So about 12 years ago, my brother was about 5. So just to kind of paint the picture, our house is a ranch style house. So if anyone doesn't know how a ranch style houses, it's most of living quarters are on top on the first floor. And then they may or may not have. a finished basement. Well, we have a finished basement and we set up a little TV area right underneath where my parents' room is. So I don't recall, I think our parents were out with our sister because I don't recall her being there. And we suddenly heard walking in my parents' room. And I thought I was hearing things, so I was kind of ignoring it. But then my brother stopped playing a fish toy. I remember he was obsessed with Thomas the train at that age. And so he stopped playing with his trains and he just looked up just asking if our parents were home. And I'm like, no, they couldn't be home because we have a home alarm system that beeps if a window or a door was open. So I know I haven't heard the beep. So obviously they weren't home. But we kept hearing these footsteps and I started panicking thinking, oh God, did someone break in? And, but I want to be sure before it raised an alarm.

So, again, like I said, if someone opened the window, we would have heard the alarm. So we had no idea what to think. I told my bird to hide if I yelled. And I grabbed a plastic bat from the storage room. It's like one of those dainty little wiffle ball bats that would dent if you hit anyone with it. but I was a big sister protecting our little brother. I wasn't really thinking my thoughts through.

So I grabbed this bat. I went to investigate and I was still hearing the footsteps as I was climbing up the stairs, walking down the hallway. And I was trembling as I was holding this bat that would not protect me in the slightest. And the one thing I noticed was the light was on under the doorway. but my parents were very um trying to find the right word particular about turning the lights off because you know electricity bills so i knew something was up but i didn't see any shadows underneath

so um i opened the door and the footsteps completely stopped and i checked the closet I checked the bathroom to see if anyone was hiding. I found no one. Windows were still locked. I was completely and utterly freaked out. Told my parents when they got home, but they told me and my brother it was the house settling. And it's just like that's pretty, like I didn't really believe them, but I wanted to because I didn't want to think there was a ghost in the house. Right.

But it continued, I was feeling watched at night and I was too scared to leave my bed. and the footsteps had started up in my room after the inciting incident. And there was never a set pattern. It was not every night the time could be anywhere from 10 to 3 in the morning, and they would start at the door and just slowly start making their way in. And I would actually hear the weight just shift from one step to another. And so it's just like this is this is not the house settling. Like it was very constant just boom.

Boom. It's like someone's creeping in and I was, but my parents would keep telling me it was the house settling. They didn't really believe me. And it got better because even though I was too scared to leave my bedroom at night, my parents would blame me for turning a TV on in the living room in the middle of the night. as my siblings weren't able to turn on TV themselves because it was childproofed. They told me they hear the TV turn on and then later the room would go quiet.

So this would be the TV in the living room. So it would be like down the hallway. And I just, I had to learn to live with it because I didn't know what to do. So I ignore the footsteps, just telling myself the house is settling. And my dog, Q, he was a pity mix. He was black and white. I love that dog. He was a good dog.

And he eventually started sleeping in my room with me. And when he started sleeping in my room with me, that's when the footsteps seemed to stop. Which is, again, a little weird. Yeah. In high school, it began to advance. I was becoming scared of the basement. The hallway to laundry room, which was in the basement, made the hair on my next stand on end and the laundry room itself always had me looking over my shoulder expecting

to see someone like you know like you keep expecting to just see someone over your shoulder but no one's there um one night i told myself it was all in my head and i tried to watch tv in the basement but around 10 at night i became completely and utterly paralyzed with fear at some unseen force I didn't see anything, but I felt it just swirling around me like a darkness. And I was like hypervailing. I was shaking. I was terrified. And all I wanted to do was escape and run up the stairs, but I couldn't get myself to move.

I don't remember how long it kept me there, but eventually the feeling just went away. And I just darted upstairs and ran into my bed because, you know, it's the safest place you can be. I noticed when my dog Hugh wasn't around It didn't seem to come around very much So I was under the impression Didn't like dogs So when Q passed away

I was very vulnerable I felt like I lost my best friend And my protector Like I was bullied Pretty viciously Throughout my schooling career And that dog was Basically what kept me saying

So I was very, very attached to him. He was 17. He was an old man. So for the first few nights after he passed, I'd still hear his dog tanks walk the hallway, like he was going to the kitchen for a drink of water like he would every night. So the two months between Q passing and my mother gang and their dog were completely unbearable. I felt like I was being played with. I felt like there was always like a shadow behind me as if I turned around fast enough I could see it.

And it was just taunting me. Just like, hey, hey, where's your protector? Where's your friend? Where is he? And like I've had that dog since I was five. So I was just, I was not in a good place. So between Q passing and the other dog, getting the other dog, I was. I was attacked.

This was my first experience with sleep paralysis. Over the years, I thought it was the entity or whatever it was. I'd never named it. I never mentioned it inside the house. I thought if I'd starved it of attention, it would go away. It was later suggested to me that was possibly a night hag, old hag spirit, which was an entity that could come to your house and would cause sleep paralysis. I don't know what it was.

This was, I was around 18. I don't really remember what it could have been. I just know I was completely terrified when it happened. I woke up with my face in my pillow and something was already wrong because I always slept on my side facing away from the door because that's where the footsteps would start. When I tried to move, I couldn't. And it felt like someone was gripping the back of my head. like when someone is like gripping the back of your head and just pulling your hair as it's tightening the grip on the back of your skull and I tried to scream but it just it came out like a

just I couldn't I couldn't force anything out I heard breathing in my ear as more pressure was applied to the back of my head forcing my face further into the pillow and I couldn't move but eventually I was my hands managed to move so I could attempt to push myself up but when I tried to push up there was no strength in my arms they were just noodles and I was I was panicking as I was practically being smothered I mean I probably could have breathed but you don't think about that you just think there's something being pressed against my face I'm not going to be able to breathe wow and I wanted to move my head but I was I was terrified of what I was going to see. But I knew I had to, so I slowly forced my head to the side as much as I could so my nose and mouth could take an air. And I tried to force out worse, but I was only hurting my throat. So I managed to stammer out a stop. And the force kind of lessened for a minute, but then it just doubled in pressure and my head started hurting.

and I forced out another more firm stop. Suddenly, it was gone and my head was let go. I shot up, opened my eyes to look around, but I saw nothing. I tried to dismiss it as a dream, and when I stopped shaking, I tried to soothe myself back to sleep. But later in the night, the same thing happened again. It was a lot harder this time as if it was pissed off. I was trying to stand up to it.

And I kept my eyes close throughout the whole thing because I couldn't muster enough courage to look at it and just forced out and stop. That's all I could think of doing. And when I managed to be able to sit up against all nothing, I didn't sleep for the rest of the night. That's terrifying. That's absolutely terrifying.

Yeah, it was not fun. I was really exhausted and I was in so much pain. wanted to cry the next day. I was too scared to take a sick day from work. I didn't want to be alone in the house in case it attacked again. And my head felt like someone had repeatedly just bashed it against the brick wall. And I kept touching my throbbing head and just pulling back my fingers expecting to fully see blood. Like that's how much pain I was in. And I worked in a deli. We worked with those really sharp slacers. So that being in that much pain, being around those machines was not a good idea, but I was too scared to be home.

My friend, my boyfriend, worked with me and they were worried, but the only thing they can do is keep me away from the deli slacers because we're all sensitive and they felt the thing inside my house, but we didn't know what to do about it. So I can't remember it attacking again. We adopted an air puppy and the entity seemed to calm down. I don't know if it spent all its energy that night or if it just did not like dogs. but nothing happened for a little while. We did notice a strange thing with all our animals.

We had throughout having the house, we've had three dogs and two cats that whenever they were down in the basement, even if no one else was home, they would just watch the landing of the stairs to the main living area as if they were expecting someone to come downstairs. And it was always most active

after I had an argument with my parents or if there was any negativity in the house. I just, I started assuming it fed off that. So I try to argue with my parents left. But, you know, you're a teenager, you're a hot head, you're stubborn, your parents are stubborn. It happens. You can't really prevent it. But I had once gotten one of those ghost emulator apps and the ones that supposedly, you know,

you'll track the ghost or allow the ghost access to your phone so it can use the app to make. words and nothing had happened a while so I'll still be a little brave um I was in the living with my mother my sister the two small dogs tipsy who is a bishan shizu mix and Bailey's a jack Russell West Highland terrier mix and I started the app up it started with girl and I shrug yes they were all girls here but that was such a generic word and that said door well yes again we're right next to the patio doors that laid outside i start tilting my head i mean every room has doors so again it was generic but i had a bad feeling and so i looked at the dogs to see if they were reacting but they were playing business as usual

the emulator said dog i'm getting really creeped out now and we were only on the third word as billy ran around tipsy it gave me a fourth word run So the blood just completely drained from my face. I closed the app. I deleted it from my phone. I haven't played with any of those apps since. Just like I expected a few random words for entertainment value. Those are entertainment apps.

But there's just like other than pure random chance, I can't find an explanation for those words. Because they were all completely on point. Yeah. I mean, at some point it's like, is it coincidence? at some point it's just it's not coincidence you know what I mean? No. There was another incident where I had gotten up to get a glass of water and my room is right down the hall from the kitchen.

And next to the kitchen was the dining room, which then proceeded to leave out into a living room. So I got my glass of water. I was returning from the kitchen when I passed a large dark figure on my way back to my room. I was half asleep and thought it was my father and muttered an apology for being up and told him I was going to bed. As soon as I snuggled back into my bed, my eyes just shot open. My father was not home. And no one else in the house matched his height or shape. And I knew he was not home because it was snowing that night and he was called in for plow duty.

So instead of a wimpy little whiffle ball bat, I now had a training sword made of solid oak. I grabbed that from my closet and I was listening and I knew it had it followed me because I would have I would have heard it so it had to still be in a living area. I had again, follows intruder. I was turning on lights running down to the basement, checking every nook and cranny of the house, making sure they had not run off to hide, but no footsteps or anything that would suggest that they were moved. the stairs down to the basement squeaked and I knew I hadn't heard them squeak. Well, they squeak when you put weight on them and they hadn't squeaked at all. So I didn't want to scare my mom and my siblings. My dad wasn't home.

So I decided to take a flashlight kind of slip into their rooms, check their closets. Found nothing. All the locks were still in place. Nothing was open because we were running the heat. I was grateful I had the next day off because I didn't sleep for the rest of the night again. thinking I had missed something and I was listening for any sign someone was moving. Over the years, things would just go missing and either never turn up or turn up where they had no business being. One day I was alone and threw my cell phone on my bed.

I went to the bathroom and returned and my phone wasn't there anymore. When my dad got home, I asked them to run the phone's locator thinking I was mistaken. Maybe I forgot my boyfriends. It was inside the house and I was pretty confused as I know I put it. on my bed. We were at the bar area in the basement, so I turned the corner, I go upstairs and I saw something in the exact middle of the toy room, the exact

middle. I went to look inside and found my phone right that the thing in the exact middle of the room was my phone. I had not been in basement all day. So it was, it was

it's unnerving. I was just going to say that. It's a nerve. nerving for sure. I mean, because you seem like the kind of person that when you, when you experience something, you're looking for the logical explanation. Like several times throughout this interview, you've, you know, referenced something that sort. Like, you're looking like, okay, that was just my dad. And then you realize, wait a second, dad's at work. And so I imagine you probably ran through your head and it's like, okay, I know I wasn't in the

basement. How did it get down there? And you start running through all these different options in your head. Man, that hadn't... Yeah, because this happened at the point I was avoiding the basement, so why would my phone be in the basement if I haven't been in there? Wow. It seems to me like this, I don't mean to cut you off. I just have to, you know, express this before I forget. It seems like this thing was some kind of intelligent entity where it understood you and recognized at least patterns that you had. I mean, like you just said, uh, it's, you just said, uh, it was some kind of intelligent entity where it understood you, you were avoiding the basement, so it puts the phone in the basement to make you come to the basement. It seems to understand that you found comfort in the dog, and so when the dog's not

there, it mocks it by the, I think you said it sounded like the dog tags coming down the hallway. I'm pretty sure the dog tags were Q because I only heard the first few dames after he passed away. I'm pretty sure that was his spirit. figure out that he passed away because it was um he was an old man and his body just couldn't keep up anymore so he had to just be put to sleep it wasn't horrific or anything it was just old age so i'm pretty sure he didn't really understand until a few days after like oh wait oh i'm not here anymore okay that happened like he was yeah he was a sweetheart i loved him so much but it's it's it's just interesting how like i mean i'm i'm

guessing you probably figure your the dogs were able to see this or at least sense whatever was going on. And they kind of, I feel, I feel like whatever this was, uh, knew that the dogs could sense it. And so when the dogs were around, it kind of kept things at bay. Is that how you feel? Yeah. It's just, it didn't like dogs. I just always had that feeling that didn't like dogs. Because like you pointed, like you said, it's just when the dogs were around, nothing really seem to happen and the whole escalating when the only dog in the house passed away. I mean, we had the cats, but I wasn't really bonded with the cats. I wasn't really a cat person until I moved out.

So, yeah, you're pretty on point as far as I'm concerned. Okay. Yeah, it's fascinating because you hear different stories of people's experiences in their homes or whatever growing up. and you hear different similarities and things like that. And one of the things I wanted to ask you is in the beginning when you first heard the footsteps, how long were you living in that house before you heard that? We moved in when I was in fifth grade.

I was currently being homeschooled because things had gotten a career at hand at my old elementary school. So my mom had homeschooled me and we moved to a better neighborhood. So I moved in the middle of me being in fifth grade that puts me at what 12. Well, no, no, no. That puts you at what, 9, 10? No, I was 8 when Joe was born. No, 9, 10. That put me around that age.

Okay. Yeah, so you weren't there that long, right? Mm-mm. No, and I don't really have any memory. before I don't have any memories of it could have happened and I just didn't remember

when I was 12 and the whole walking around upstairs thing was happening that's the first that's the first I remember of it because I was trying to deny this whole thing was happening so there could be memories that I don't

that I still have shoved away because I didn't really remember this first memory until like I want to say about six months ago and I didn't really believe that first I went to my brother and said hey Joe do you remember a weird incident with footsteps when mom and dad were out with Jenna and he's just like yeah it was pretty terrifying and you were pretty terrified so I was terrified I'm like well there goes that idea just like just like great. Someone confirmed it. I'm not crazy. Now, were you

kind of secretly hoping he wouldn't confirm it or did you want confirmation to your memory? Well, I'm 25 now. I kind of accepted that yeah, it happened. So I was kind of like, I wanted to make sure my memory

was accurate. Because I kind of stopped denying it was happening around the time after Q passed away. It was when I was denying it happening. I stopped denying happening. English, yes, thank you.

I stopped denying it was happening. So things really kind of seem to vamp up with the whole basement. Am I correct in saying that? I mean, it seems like things really were at a different level when it came to creep factor when you were in the basement. Yeah, it was a finished basement. I mean, we had a toy room. We had a sewing room. There was a sewing room, which is now the sewing room and the exercise room because no one needs toys anymore. But then there's a TV room. There's a storage area. Then there's the laundry room. So it's completely finished and carpeted and everything. But just the energy in there. It was just very foreboding. Gotcha. And your parents to this day have never said they have experienced anything?

actually I was just about to go into that so thank you for that lead-in I was actually talking to my dad and he's as the more I talked to him the more he was slowly becoming more open with talking about the paranormal with me and he finally told me about what my little sister experienced when she was two she and my little brother were playing in the basement and he being a young boy that'll be funny to lock her in the dark toy room she yelled and She was like, let me out, let me out. But then, of course, she went quiet. After my brother, learned out of the room, she just went upstairs to my dad and said, plainly as possible. There was a red-eyed man in the toy room. Oh, my gosh. Just as plainly as possible.

Like, you know, when they're making things up, they giggle like it's a game. And she's just like, oh, yeah, that's happened. Like, you don't do that when you're two. And where that red-eye man, she's. says appeared was the exact center of the toy room right where my missing phone appeared. So he finally told me this when she was nine. And when I was finally told that, and I remember if my family had experienced something, I didn't know if I wanted to hug him or hit him.

Because it's just like, when I tried telling him all this initially, he was like, oh, it's the house settling. Oh, it's your imagination, honey. You know you have no reactive imagination. he was like denying it denying it denying he's like now all of a seven years later oh yeah by the way your sister did experience something so yeah that happened oh my god yeah that's kind of crazy i understand it from a parent's perspective that he didn't want to feed into my fears and make me scare the house so i understand it from a parenting perspective but at the same time it's like really you couldn't have just ah Whatever. I mean, I understand what he was trying to do, so I'm not upset. Sure.

And do you draw the conclusion? I don't want to put words in your mouth. You tell me, you know, just like the dog, you know, if you don't think something. But do you get the feeling that this red-eyed man is the same entity that attacked you with your hair and everything? I'm pretty sure it is. Like if it wasn't the red-eyed man, it was a night hag, but I've never really had experience with one of those, and the house was already haunted. So, I mean, according to my teacher, the guy who's, my friend who's been kind of showing me how to detect energy and everything and how to use my energy, he's been, he says they exist and he's dealt with one personally when it attacked one of his roommates. So I believe they exist, but I'm pretty sure it was the red-eyed man.

Okay. That was what attacked me because it only happened between losing one dog and getting an art dog, which was a huge coincidence for me and I don't really believe in coincidences. Yeah, me neither. But he did go on to tell me he hadn't personally seen anything, just heard some weird noises, had some weird sensations he can't explain, but gave them no further thought as the supernatural freaks my mom the hell out.

Her story is she saw the pet, she saw the original pet cemetery and refuses to have anything at all to do of anything that she considers horror-related. Like we can't watch horror movies in her presence, no horror movies when she's home, she will not have any of it. It completely freaks her out.

And he didn't want to scare the rest of us. So he just kind of kept it to himself like, oh, hey, that happened. Okay. I mean, he was being the family protector. Again, I don't really blame him. It's a little frustrating, but I don't really blame him. Sure. So let's just take a break right now.

When we come back, we'll jump right back into it and talk about these red eyes a little bit. I don't know. Whenever you hear somebody describes something that had red eyes, it just sounds evil, doesn't it? Well, we've done some research into it since I've spoken about it. And red-eyed shadow men are common sightings among children because it manifests their fears. And my boyfriend theorized that the red-eyes means chaos. And yes, that it was feeding off any negativity in the house. that's what gave it strength. That's what gave it the energy to go, you know, bump in the night.

I mean, they're not very common sightings because it's cited by children. And whenever children see them, the parents usually dismiss it. So it's not really reported, you know? But the few, the little information I could find on it suggests that it's mainly only seen by children. That's always, I always find that interesting because I honestly feel like, Like if my son one day comes to me and says he saw a red-eyed man in our basement, I would take it serious, you know? And I don't know if it's because of the things that I deal with on a regular basis that I'm just more mentally aware that this kind of stuff is real and it actually happens to people. But I always find it funny when people tell me that their parents just kind of brush it off. Like, oh, you're just seeing things.

It's like, ah, really? You know, like, I'm not sure about that. Well, they want to deny these things happen. As you said in an episode a little while ago, that you had an issue when Christians thought just because they're Christians, they're protected. They don't need to do anything about it. They're just protected because they believe in God. When it's like, no, you got to do a little more than that. You got to really believe in them. You can't just say, oh, well, I'm protected. It's fine. It's like, no, you got to really, you got to really believe them. You got to call on them, you know?

Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, it's like, well, it's just like people, especially in America, you get this a lot, where, you know, if people don't really identify with any particular philosophy or theology, typically the default is, oh, yeah, I'm a Christian. And it's like, well, you can't just say that. Like, you have to understand what it means to be a Christian. You actually have to, there's a set of beliefs that you actually have to believe in order to claim that you're, you're Christian. And just because you say you're Christian doesn't mean that you're covered underneath the Christian covenant or whatever you would call it. So like it's just, I always find that funny because people just go by default. Oh, yeah, I'm good. Oh, yeah, this, that. It's like, no, listen, we got, we have to stop living our lives on default and actually give some intent behind what we do. Oh, yeah. It was like I told you earlier. I was raised Roman Catholic, but the, a lot of the rules, I just didn't, I couldn't connect with the energy of it. I just, I didn't feel like it was for me.

So that's when I found Wicca, which I have been completely happy with. And people were like, oh, you're a witch. You're going to curse me. It's just like, it's the amazing thing. People don't believe in magic. And then when they hear you're a witch or a wick and they're going, oh, you're going to curse me. It's like, no, it doesn't work like that. Harm done and do as you will.

So if you're not harming anyone, it's not my business. That's basically my philosophy. Are you harming someone? No, that's not my business. Go about your day. You asked me earlier if I've ever talked to a Wiccan on the show, and I'm not sure if I have, but I know I have in real life.

And my experience is quite the opposite as to what I've heard on some YouTube videos being claimed. And you're just another person I'm talking to now. Yeah, well, it's like when the office found out, because the one co-worker who has since quit because of the drama, but she was talking to me how she didn't like how her family was condemning her relationship with another woman because of their beliefs. And I'm just like, look, I'm wicking.

I don't really care. I don't care. You want to go hug that tree? You want to go love a woman? I really don't care. Are you hurting anyone? So that's how it first got brought up. And then the rest of the office found out.

I was being accused of sleeping with the devil and raising the dead. I'm just like, first off, Satan is exclusive to Christian theology. So I can't worship something I don't believe exists. Is there bad stuff in the world? Is there bad spirits? Is there negativity? Do we have to do our part to make sure that there's more good in the world? Absolutely.

But no, I'm not, it's just, it's frustrating. And of course, these women, they'll go around and say whatever they want and insult whoever they want and they think they're good people because they go to church every Sunday when it's just like, that's not how that works. You can't go to Jesus say, oh, hey, I, I, you know, I insulted someone today because they were different than me. We're good and then go do it again. That's not how that works. Yeah. It drove me crazy. No, I know we're kind of getting off course here a little bit, but I will say.

I'm sorry. No, it's fine. It's fine. Hey, listen, it's my show. I'll say whatever I want, right? So, but I will say that, you know, Christianity, Christians, they, in America, I can't speak on a global scale, but in America, they've gotten soft on their own convictions and what they believe, or I should say, like this, what they know they believe. So like we mentioned earlier, kind of we hinted at that a little bit earlier.

But when it comes to the whole, you know, they think that they can just do whatever they want or whatever. Like they're not totally understanding the whole concept of this grace that is being offered through Jesus. They feel like, you know, they can just, hey, sorry, I shouldn't have done that. And then kind of like you said, turn around and do it again and stuff. And though his grace covers all sins, the concept is if you truly have experienced his love and mercy and grace, you'll strive to not do these things. Not saying you won't do it, but you'll strive not to. And so, especially for somebody who isn't a Christian, when you see other Christians really not seeming like they're striving to not do these things, whatever it is, it can be off-putting. can be like, well, what is this?

You know, like, which way does it go? You know what I mean? I could totally see what you're talking about. No, it's just frustrating to witness, but it's just like, you know what, to each their own. If that's how they want to live their life, as long as you don't live it near me. Do not involve me in this, please. I understand. So, was there anything else that happened in that house, or was that it?

Um, no, um, a few other things happened, which is why I said, I hope you don't mind if this is long. No, it's fine. Um, so in, this was in front of the house. So I don't think it has anything to do of what happened inside the house. But, um, ever since me and my dad have been more open with each other about the supernatural, he, um, told me there was a time that he was unpacking his SUV in front of the house. And out of the corner of his eye, he saw this young blonde girl in colonial dress. Well, there's a lot of kids in the upper hood. We have the bus stop right down the corner. So he didn't really bat an eye until he realized the girl's clothes. And he turned around to look at her again and she was just gone.

He told me he didn't know if it was an angel, a ghost, or possibly a demon disguised as a young girl. Because he understands demons do do that. they take on the virtue of innocence to draw us in. And so he hasn't seen her again, but he's just like, that's, that was a really weird thing that just happened, you know? Yeah, for sure. So going back to the house, around the time I was 21, I was again, venturing into the kitchen, have a drink.

And as I filled the cup, I just felt the entity just standing behind me, breathing down my neck like you I could actually like feel like the breath and something in me just snapped just like that's it I'm done not scared of you anymore I found myself saying I'm not scared of you anymore and just with force I said do not come near me or my family again like I don't know what snapped it's just like I was so done of being scared of my own house just like I'm done I'm done just just go just leave and done so i turned i was ready to face him i was ready to see him i see what's going to look like he's gone i have not had any more personal experiences in my parents house my family experienced no activity until i moved out a couple years later and it seemed to think

it could start up again so the rest of the experiences i have are recounted through either my father or my sister. My father and sister would see shadow figures in the bathroom when they're the only people home. The footsteps started up again. My sister's room, she would hear the creaking on the stairs as if someone was walking on him. My brother didn't contribute this to the entity, but he woke up with terrible, terrible thoughts,

and he was, like, he has everything going from him. him like he's in the ROTC he has a bright future ahead of him and he just wanted to end it all out of nowhere and his terrified girlfriend of the time just called me up in my house and paid to me what he was saying to her and when I later questioned him he said he had no idea where they came from because he knew he had a very bright future ahead of him and um I think it was mysterious radio or maybe one of my pagan podcasts where there are there are a couple demons that will visit young men and like tear down their self-esteem and try to get them to commit the ultimate sin. I mean, thankfully, he only happened that once and it hasn't happened again.

He's a very bright young man, but just that one incident where it just bam and I know where I'm like, I don't really think that just happens. So that might have been it as far as I'm concerned. because it just It bothered me right to my core I was checking on him a lot after that And he said he was fine But no he's in the ROTC

And he's going to the Coast Guard Academy this summer So I'm really proud of him Yeah that's awesome I mean joining the ROTC That's great I mean they really set you up for life When you start you know How old is he?

He's gonna be 18 in September Yeah I knew he had to be like in his upper teens if he's joining the ROTC. My experience with those guys, a lot of those guys come out of the ROTC have it together. They really do. Lots of respect for him. He was 14 in telling the dentist what he wanted to do

and the dentist was impressed just like, you're the most important-to-care kid I've ever treated. Like we're all super-powered of him. So that moment of, no, he wanted to end it all. That was completely an utterly uncharacteristic of him. So, but think, like I said, he's been, he's been okay now, but that just completely jarred me and freaked me out.

And then there was a breaking point where one night my sister claims a demon came out of her closet. And we used to share a room. I don't think I mentioned that. We would share the room. So I knew this room and this was the room that the footsteps were in. She claimed a demon came out of her closet and just knocked off all. whole shelf of books, just like she felt a presence, and then all of a sudden, the books on one of her shelves were just down all at once. And since she's the one that saw the red-eyed man, I asked

her if she saw anything, and she replied with a no that she only felt it. And my sister, I describe her as an emotional tank behind a brick wall. Like, she does not get phased by anything. You can, you can call her hefty, and she'll shoot an insult right back. She's not afraid of anything. And she's only 13. I feel bad for anyone that tries to date her. But so she is not scary, but she was shaking when she told my dad. Like this freaked her out. So does she see like physically something come out? Like she, like it wasn't just like she saw the door open and then she saw the shelf, but like she actually saw something come out. She didn't see anything come out. She said she, it felt like. It felt like. It felt like.

like a demon. And that's about as far as she would care to describe it because it still kind of bothered her, which again really strikes me as off because she's a very frank person. So you guys never had any problems before you moved into this house, right? Not that I can recall. Hmm. That's interesting. Not that my parents would discuss. Not that my parents, not that I can recall. My dad finally had enough of the sudden activity. and took holy water that he got him from the church because they're very active in their parish. So he took the holy water that he got from the church and just blessed the closet reciting the Our Father.

And as he shook the holy wire like over every nook and cranny, like he coated this thing in holy water. And he ended his prayer with, you stay the F away from my kids. He later jokes I probably shouldn't end a prayer with cursing But the house had fallen in silent For at least a few more months And we thought it was the end of it But I spoke with my sister

And she said she started hearing the footsteps again And I'm keeping an eye on it And I think it's I think she needs to be able to I think she needs to be able to tell it to go away herself because I could go and cleanse the house but unfortunately the drawback of Wicca is if I don't have permission I can do everything I want to the house and it's not going to take effect

because my magic, my energy needs the person's permission in order to take effect which is why I can't curse people or anything so I could go cleanse the house behind my parents back and it won't take any effect. so I'm kind of I either have to convince my mother to let me do it or I just have to support my sister so I'm kind of at the part where I'm supporting my sister because it will most recent incident was it was breathing down the back of her neck while she was brushing her teeth a few weeks ago and she's just she says she's not scared of it and she just tells it to go away I think she started calling it Bob and like, oh, don't give it a name. Don't give it a name, Jenna. Don't give it a name.

Yeah. She said she's dealing with it, so that's all I can really do. Now, so there's you, your brother, and your sister, and if I'm gathering this right, you're the oldest, he's the middle child, and your sister's the youngest? You got it. Has your brother ever had problems like this? Not that he's told me. He's kind of a He's kind of a frank person

But we haven't really discussed the paranormal All that much I keep meaning to whenever I have Whenever I have him alone But we always just slip into our subjects By oh, girlfriends And stuff like that But I'm pretty sure if he

Anything bothered him he would have told me Because Jenna knows to come to me So I don't think it's bothered him But I think Ghost activity usually affects women more because we're perceived as more vulnerable. So it might not just be bothering with him. I don't know.

I'm not it. I'm not the red-eyed man, so I don't know what would be going on. Yeah. What about your mom? I mean, has your mom experienced things? I mean, my question, the reasoning for that question is, you know, I don't know, breathing down your sister's neck seems pretty similar to your experience that you had with it holding your hair.

I don't know. Do you think it feels more comfortable going after women? I think it is. If it has done anything from my mom, she doesn't speak of it because she isn't believe in supernatural. So it would be really hard to get her to talk about something she doesn't believe in. She just doesn't talk. talk about it.

I mean, she's been a little more open about it recently. Like, she'll let us watch, she'll let the children watch her movies in the house, but she doesn't, she doesn't really feel comfortable talking about it. Like, she'll talk with me about my Wicca and about the spirituality and everything, but those are kind of off the table. So it kind of makes me wonder, like, this kind of avoidance to the supernatural, I wonder if there's something that happened that she's not ready to accept yet. Because I find it really hard to believe that all this spawned off of seeing one movie.

I mean, I saw it when I was seven and I still don't trust clowns, but still, I just don't trust them. They're too happy. Too happy. They're too happy. No one's that happy. Clowns never really bothered me. They just don't. My wife, Lindsay, on the other hand, hates clowns.

Absolutely hates them. And I'm terrible. I, when we first got married, I changed her desktop background image to a scary clown image. And she opened up her laptop and she freaked out. She almost threw her laptop across the room. Yeah. I used to be petrified of them, but now I'm at the point where it's just like, okay, you're people in costumes. But that's just no.

No, just don't come near me, please. But you go do your thing. You go do your thing. Yeah. Not near me, please. Well, you know, I just, when I hear your story and just the different experiences your family has had, I think you're probably right. I mean, it does make me wonder if your mom has experienced something and she just doesn't know how to react to it so she pretends it didn't happen. You know, especially, you said she's very involved in the parish.

I mean, I bang my drum on this all the time, and I wish it wasn't so, but I really feel like, again, in America, they've really tried to. stripping the supernatural out of the Bible to make it like more quote unquote normal. And I think that there's people out there that maybe are experiencing supernatural paranormal type things and they are Christians or whatever. And they don't even know how to react to it because this isn't supposed to be real. I'm going to be coming out with a show this week. So it's going to date the show now that I said that. But it's okay. It's going to date this interview. But I'm going to be coming out of the show this week where I had a guy on who shared some paranormal experiences he had in a house that he had with his ex-wife. And while he had these experiences, he still had a hard time believing what he experienced because as a Christian, he felt like he shouldn't believe these things.

And I spent some time explaining to him that, you know, the Bible is actually, if you actually read the Bible, it's littered with these types of things. and it's just, I really feel like, I don't know if it's an intentional thing or if it's just happened on default, but I really feel like in America, the Christians, in very generic term, Christians, have really kind of taken the whole idea of there being a supernatural realm out of their belief system, which leaves them this watered down, comfortable version they can swallow, you know, more easily. Does that make sense? Oh, absolutely. It is Americanized Christianity because if you look at places like Europe, well,

places like Europe, if you look at like Europe, they have a lot of supernatural they have a lot of supernatural ties tied in with their version of the Bible and everything. I'm not having trouble thinking of examples right now, but if you like if you see how

Denmark does it, England does Is it like they all have like supernatural ties? They don't have issues believing in the supernatural at all over there. And God, what place is it? This is about bother me now. I think it's like around this island around Denmark, Denmark, where it's like customary to get your house blessed by a priest because there might be any old negative energy or ghost in the house.

And now it's going to bother me because I don't remember where that place is. I remember hearing that fact, but it's like it's customary. It's everyday thing to think, oh, yeah, there might be a ghost there. Just send a priest and bless it'll be fine. Like they don't, it's not stigmatized. A lot of things in America are stigmatized where in Europe it's just like it's an everyday thing. Yeah, absolutely. And I know like in India, China, like, all right, for instance, China, in China, it's illegal to be a Christian in China.

And so there's Christian churches in China. have to be underground because if they found out, you know, you're in a lot of trouble. I don't want to go as far as say as they'll kill you, but they'll definitely break up that church. They could kill you. I don't know. That's why I don't want to say it. But I say that because sometimes these little house churches that they have, they only have, you know, one page of the Bible that they read over and over again and they believe what it says and they take it serious. And I think I think in America, we have the whole Bible and we've taken it for granted and we don't really necessarily, we pick and choose what we want to believe. Where these other countries, they don't have that luxury. And so

they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they're so convicted that they're willing to lose their life over this. And so with that comes this whole supernatural realm, because, Because one, they believe it's an existence. And two, when they experience it, they actually are aware of it and they don't deny it. Where, like I said, I think in America, a lot of times we deny these things even happen. Yeah, exactly. That's another thing that really unnerves me about, let's call them fairweather Christians, like default Christians, as you're saying. where they'll if they're not happy with homosexuality they'll quote the one verse out of the Bible about homosexuality but then it's like well there's the verse about not eating any animals with clothing feet there's the verse about not wearing mixed fabrics there's a verse about not eating any

red meat on Fridays are you following those verses or are you just cherry picking that one verse because it serves you if you're going to quote the Bible to serve your beliefs you better start quoting the whole freaking thing as far as I'm concerned I mean I understand a lot of it's outdated, but it's just like, well, okay. So. Right. And I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say necessarily outdated, but contextualized. This is what I look at. Okay. Things, um, things, um, things need to be put into context. And so there, like the Old Testament, New Testament, there is a difference between the two. Uh, however, in the New Testament, there are things that, uh, Christians do, uh, clearly neglect to

follow. Something as simple as this. I believe it was the Apostle Paul talked about as a Christian's not gossiping and what what the how gossiping could destroy a whole group of Christians. And that happens all the time. I believe that in a heartbeat. And so you look at these things and you're right. People tend to pick and choose what they want to believe because there's no conviction behind. And that's the, that's the root of this. I believe that there's not a whole lot of conviction period behind what they say they believe. It's easy to say something. But where's, is there conviction behind what you say? Because if there is, your actions will follow. And so, you know, and nobody's perfect. And that's the beautiful thing about it is you're not required to

be perfect. But the, there needs to be that intent behind it to strive. for perfection. Like you would with anything else. Like, you know, if you say you're an athlete, you want to be the best you can be, right? Because you're convicted to be the best you can be. It's the same thing. So, oh, man, we're getting off topic. We're getting off topic.

I'm so sorry. So. I know you went to Paris, you were studying to be a pastor. You went to pastor school or something. Yeah. I went to Bible College. I pretty much failed out of it, though. I find discussing religion very fascinating in a very adult manner.

So I'm very sorry, this might be my fault. No, no, it's fine. I mean, you know, it is what it is. It's your show. I mean, we can discuss whatever you want. Yeah, sure. I mean, I just, when these kind of things come up, especially, I mean, you're Wiccan, I'm Christian, obviously that's not the same thing. and the fact that we're able to hold a conversation, I think, is pretty cool.

So that in itself, I think, is worth talking about. I completely respect Christianity. I think it's a little patriarchal, but, you know, that's whatever. It's not something I hold against it, but I think that's why I could never really connect to it. But I understand that a lot of our people were able to connect with it. It has saved a lot of people. And belief is a very sacred thing. So when you're using belief just to justify your own actions and you don't actually believe in it, that offends me on a very deep level.

And I think that's what we're both talking about not being happy with when we're talking about these default Christians. Because belief is a very, very sacred thing. It should be treated as sacred and it's really not. You're right. I say this sometimes on the show. I don't want to sound like I'm passionate Christianity because I'm a Christian. I'm not very shy about expressing my issues within my own faith. I'm very much, hey, listen, like I have a Bible sitting right next to me right now.

I read this thing. I believe what it has to say. And that's that. Let's stop making this harder than what it has to be. Let's read this thing. Listen to what it has to say. and follow it or believe what, you know, does that make sense? Like, I think we kind of make this harder than it has to be sometimes in Christianity.

And Jesus kind of talked about it, too, when he was talking to the Pharisees, and he's telling him, like, listen, you have the Ten Commandments and you make rules to follow the Ten Commandments. Those rules you're making to follow Ten Commandments weren't given by God. Those are man-made rules that you're making it harder than what it has to be. And I think we've kind of done that again throughout the course of history with Christianity and stuff. I think we're making things a little bit more complicated than they have to be. Yeah, and then people just use it for financial gain and to further their own needs. And they completely bastardize the initial purpose of the religion, which is to love thy neighbor and believe in God and believe in the Son of God. and they just run off with one passage and say, oh, hey, I'm good.

We're a Christian. We're good. But it's just like, okay, well, are you going to, if you're against homosexuality, are you going to go and stone a woman that just divorced her husband because he was beating her? No. You're not going to do that. So it's just, we're getting off topic, but it's like I highly respect the ever really. religion, I highly respect the concept of Christianity. It's just, I don't want to say a majority,

because that sounds a little insulting, but most of the average everyday Christians that you see walking on the street don't really convict to it. I was initially very resentful Christianity when I was in my teens because of all the things that were happening in my house, like I wanted God and Jesus to protect me and they didn't, so I became a little resentful. But I never disrespected it because my grandmother is a hardcore Roman Catholic woman and she is one of the best people I have ever met. She is, she is a saint. So it's like, no, I'm not going to completely and utterly dump on something that is so important to someone who's so close to me. I may not like it, but you know what? It is what it is. But what actually got me to start respecting

Christianity as a religion again is when my father blessed the closet because I cleansed my condo. I do, we have a whole cleansing and warding ritual because I had some weird things happening in my condo. I'm just like, okay, we're not dealing with this again. I'm just kicking it out before anything happens. And then when my dad plused the closet, it stopped the activity. So I was really confused. Like, well, wait, how did, how was he able to bless the closet and make things stop, just like I was able to make things stop. What's going on here? And I really think why belief is really sacred to me is there's your force of will, and that's how you make things happen. And your belief is like the crystal you focus that light through. So if you really believe in

Christianity, you want this to happen, you're going to focus through that crystal and you're going to make it happen. So me focusing through my Wicca and my self-belief is what drove. any negative spirit out of my condo and my dad focusing on Christianity and the Our Father is what I guess soothed is the right word I'm not thinking of a better word right now

is what soothed the red-eyed man to kind of mellow down for a little bit and so that's why I kind of hold every religion in good regard except for the you know the saintness that you ran into that was a that was a weird story

Yeah, well, it still bothers me. Not like in a, I'm scared way, but in a it ticks me off way. I mean, it's just one of those things where I look back at them like the audacity and it kind of pisses me off. Yeah, that's just. I actually delivered there not too long ago and I went in there looking for them and I didn't see them. So I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. but eventually I'm going to run into this guy again, and him and I are going to have some words, because I'm just going to let him know. I know what he was doing. I've had so many people email me

confirm my suspicions telling me, yes, this guy was doing this, that, and the other, and they kind of broke it down, explained it to me. And so I don't need to understand everything. All I know is what happened to me, and I'm not too thrilled about it. So, you know, it is what it is. very surprised to hear that there are Satanists that go into Christian churches and try to break them up. I was actually very surprised to hear that because the Satanism I've heard of is when a bunch of atheists get together call himself, call himself Satanists to piss off the Christians, but then they go and say, oh, well, if you want open with a Christian prayer, why don't you let this guy open with this Muslim prayer? Like they're like they're kind of They're they're atheists

They don't do magic and all that stuff They don't actually believe in Satan They just call himself Satanus to piss off the Christians Like I never heard of them I never heard of Satanus that Practice magic and going to churches And try to break them up I'd never heard of those before

So I was just like what? Yeah I'm actually gonna I keep forgetting to do this But I'm gonna reach out to this one guy I'm pretty sure. I'm going to be able to get him on the show. But he is actually an ex-Satanic priest that participated in these such things and has been personally responsible for breaking up over 100 churches by infiltrating them like that. He talks about it openly because he's no longer doing that. And it's kind of like part of his testimony now. But he kind of goes into how he did things, what he did,

and things like that. So I'm probably going to have him on the show, hopefully this year. But yeah, it should be an interesting thing. Yeah, I never heard that before. I mean, I know a few weekends that do volunteer work in Christian churches, but we don't do it to break it up. Hell, I do. I volunteer my photography skills at my grandmother's church because she got me the camera.

So, of course, she's like, you point. I'm like, got to you point I shoot. Yeah, let's just take a break right now. and when we get back, we're going to wrap this show up on the Pine Barrens. We haven't gotten into that yet, and I definitely want to get into the Pine Barons because we have some fascinating stuff to cover. We'll be right back to everybody. Let's bring it back here to the second part of the email. Because, I mean, I don't know if you heard the show a couple weeks ago that I did live.

I did a three-hour show live. I could talk forever. But let's talk about your experiences in the Pine Barrens because I'm very interested to hear what you have to say about this. Okay, well, the pine barons, they, so I don't know if I should explain what the pine barons are, but basically the pine barons is a forest that covers most of South Jersey, and it's pretty vast, and then there are people who live in them called pinees, and they're basically northern rednecks as far as we're concerned.

like they get it gets a little weird in there but there's a there's a legend of the uh jersey devil which is why the pine bears are famous which is why somebody's probably already heard of them but there's a section of the pine barons called mount misery which is off route 30 in burlington county and me and my friends being stupid teenagers that we were and me dealing with the haunted house and wanting to understand more of the supernatural decided to go to Mount Misery. Now I explained earlier, but I'm going to explain again for the interview. From what I can find, Mount Misery was named because of the miserable conditions of the sawmill workers that work there because it's the, it's the northeast. The winters were brutal, the summers

are brutal in the 1800s. And of course, they're working at Salmell. Can you imagine working in one of those in like the 1800s under those conditions? So there's no actual mountain there. It's just forest. And the entry point of Mount Misery is a Methodist church last summer camp.

And when you first get in there, there's a building on your right, which is the building where they hold everything. the rec hall or whatever and the words are not helping me right now um you know the office there we go that's that's the where i was looking for and then on the left you're going to see an outside church which is basically a wooden cross a wooden altar and then like four sections of wooden pews like maybe three or not three or four more than that probably on the line of like six or six or seven pews back. So there's like an outside church there. So being the dumb teenagers that we are,

we decided to go exploring in the pine barons because we heard that there might be ghosts there. I remember we originally saw something about it in an issue of weird New Jersey. I don't know if anyone knows what weird New Jersey is. It's a really awesome magazine that just has weird facts and roadside attractions about stuff in New Jersey. And they also have books for different states. too. So if you go to your local bookstore and go to the like the roads and maps and something, the local section, you'll probably find an issue of weird New Jersey or weird Mississippi or weird Pennsylvania. I've been trying to collect them all. They're really cool. So we go in there and most of the time it was just driving and just driving the back roads and our friend had a really good, our friend had a

really good truck that so we're able to get through the mountain roads and most of the time nothing happened the first time some the first visit the only thing that happened were dogs chasing us which was very fun let me add because they were not the cuddly puppies they sounded like wild dogs oh man because we went to the church area because it's night we're there at night and i was just trying to take pictures see if i could get any ghosts to show up on my camera because I was at the point where I just wanted to understand more about the supernatural because of what I was dealing with at home. So I'm taking pictures of the outside church, hoping to get some ghosts,

and there's a little path behind the wooden cross that we were following, that we went further into the forest, and we just started walking through the trails, and nothing happened, and all of a sudden dogs were barking, and we had to turntail our one, our one, our one buddy actually lost his shoe so we had to we were like hearing these dogs come closer and closer

and he's trying to get his shoe out of the mud but we get in there we hop in the truck and we're gone super naturally there was only one significant night that stands out in my mind and this night was pretty weird I don't

like I had everything written down to keep myself from going off track and I actually did not write this down for some reason. What the hell? Huh. Seems like something I should have done. Oh, well. So what happened was we were doing our usual track.

It was me, my boyfriend, and two of our buddies. I actually had gotten, we had gone to a local ghost store in Mount Holly. I don't know if they're still there. I really hope so because I love that store. And I had managed to get a, um, full spectrum camera. So I was actually taking video camera, like the full spectrum cameras

that they have on Ghostbusters and everything. I was just like I really wanted to capture something because as a teenager, I thought if I understood how the supernatural worked, I would be less scared of the entity. So I was very driven to understand it. And we were heading in there and we headed in there pretty deep. The first incident happened when we went to a,

lake and a couple things had happened before that but they weren't supernatural do had jumped down our path whatever at the deer we're in the forest dough walks off we continue we um headed for a trail before that and as we're leaving that trail another doe came out weird two do's jumping out us in the car but we're in the forest whatever and now we head towards this this lake. This lake, like we were having fun, we were joking around, and then all of a sudden, the fun and joking around stops the closer we get to this lake. And it's just like we felt like we weren't supposed to be there. So we're walking along the path that's right next to this lake, and we're just kind of quietly chatting and hushing each other and looking around. And

there's a toad that keeps following us in croaking or yeah toads croak you know they're making dark their good sounds and my boyfriend has a my boyfriend believes more in native american spirituality so he has this totem with a toad on it that he calls toad so he was joking oh hey toad's just here to keep us safe if he stops croaking that's when we're in trouble and we just start giggling at that and suddenly something ripples in the water And I did not personally see this, but my friend and my boyfriend both claimed they see an orb like in the distance come out of the water. And all of a sudden the tobe stops croaking. So we all went silent.

We kind of just stood there. I was too scared to look. And they're just like, now we're going. We're going back to the car. We're where we're in something's territory. Like that's why we felt like we shouldn't be there. We were in something or someone's territory. and we hadn't gone over a dam during our walking.

So we headed back over the dam and it just felt like something was trying to rush at us from behind, but it was at a distance. So it just kept slowly escalating. So we were at the point where we were like running, jogging, and then kind of sprinting towards the car to get away from this lake. We get into the car and he just revs the car around because my buddy's getting really freaked out.

and he has to slam on the brakes. And guess what's in the middle of the road? An albino, an albino dough. Wow. Albino, they, like, they occur more common than you think they would, but they never really survive infancy. They never really survive to adulthood because they're white. They don't blend in.

So you think that is a sign of something? It was definitely a sign because we all looked at each other. it's just like trouble comes in threes and i think that is a really blatant third sign that's troubles coming so our my one buddy is too shook enough to even continue and this guy is just like my sister he is an emotional tank behind a brick wall nothing phases in all of a sudden his hands are shaking because we still feel that force from the late coming as like telling it's like telling us to get out get out get out right now or something that's going to happen so they had to really quickly do a Chinese fire drill, my boyfriend has to take over driving.

And he just puts on the gas and he starts driving as fast as he can. As we're turning, we see a white glowing light. Just like, it's not even a pure spear. It's like a mini sun and some light was dripping off it. I could not have a natural, I couldn't have a natural explanation for it. this if I tried. Just like a dripping, a spear of light just dripping more light just falling through the trees as we're making a turn.

And we are just jetting out of there. We were gone. We were leaving Mount Misery. We were all completely freaked out. The boys were more freaked out than I was because they saw this orb or whatever it was come out of the water. I did not see this happen. And it gets better because that night I was due to spend it.

I was due to stay over my one friend's house who lives out by the lakes. And where are the lakes? They're in the pine barons. Wow. So I had to let them drop me off. I got on my own car to go to her house because she didn't care if I was late. She wanted to have some time on her own anyways. And I'm almost at her house.

And there's this S curve in the woods to her house. They call it Dead Man's Curve because they're very, very sharp. And I'm driving and I'm still a little shaky from the experience. I just want to get back to, I want to get to her house. I want to tell her what happened and I want to go to bed. That is literally all I wanted to do. Because I was supposed to be at her house for a week while her parents were out traveling. And all of a sudden, my head feels like it's being pressed back into my headrest.

and without touching the gas my car starts going faster and I'm heading right for dead man's curve and I don't know if I imagined this but I'm pretty sure I saw a head of hair in the rear rear mirror so my car is driving faster and faster towards this curve and I am like trying to pull my foot off the gas and nothing nothing

I can't pull my foot off the gas it's just going faster So I'm about to scream and all of a sudden my car just jolts and slows down. Like all of a sudden the gas is off. I'm able to move my foot and looking around, there's nothing in my rearview mirror and I'm about to make the turn. And this is the pine barons and I am a teenage girl on her own in the middle of the forest. I do not get out. I just go around the curve and I try to. make it to my friend's house slowly, like as safely, but as quickly as possible.

I think I was, I think whatever was at the lake followed me to let me know, hey, I want to see you around here again. Because when I told my boyfriend, my friend, they were just like, yeah, you're not going back there again. I'm like, why am I not going back there? Are you going back there? They're like, no, no, we're not going back there. No. they went back didn't they uh twice as far as i know yeah so i'm not allowed to go because they don't want me to get hurt which is cute it's protective but at the same time it's like really don't don't exclude me i want to go but it won't get hurt because they think it followed me back to give me a warning and you know i have not gone back since well that's a lie I've gone back once but it was during a thunderstorm

I was with her bone buddy and we were just you know driving the trails that was about it we were just mudding basically we weren't going to the lake or anything because you remembered where it was and when we were about to make that turn I'm like hey isn't that yeah we're not going and just kept driving I'm like oh okay we're not going good idea yeah that's the major paranormal experience I had at the Mount Misery. I had some orbs on my camera,

but they could easily been dustbex, so I kind of written them off. I don't even know if I still have those pictures anymore and never got anything

on my full-spectrum camera. Okay. I mean, I got to tell you, though, what's your story, what you just told me about at the lake and stuff,

is, I told you before we started the interview that I wanted to talk about what I had heard, and it's very similar. I don't have all the details because it was told to me. So what happened was I was actually, I broke down with my truck at work, and I waited all day for her toe. The guy comes, and he's towing me, and we start talking, and it's nighttime, and, you know,

I just talk to people about what I do. And that's just who I am. And, you know, we got on the topics of, you know, Bigfoot and all that stuff. And the guy said that he's from Jersey. He said, Have you ever gone to the Pine Barrens? I said, no, I've never been there yet, but I would like to get there. And he said, there's some crazy stuff in there. And I said, like, what? And the first thing he said was that him and his friends were wrecking through the Pine Barrens. And I can't remember.

I think he, I think, yeah, I think they were on some road. No. No, they were off road. That's what it was. They were off road because they came across a house out in the middle of nowhere. There was no road leading up to this house. and they came across the house and there was actually people at the house

sitting on the front porch and they all stood up and just looked at them like, what are you doing here? And that kind of describes what you were talking about with the northern rednecks or however you described them. Yeah, northern rednecks. I think that's the way to put them. I don't know if it's exactly polite,

but we call them pinees. The pinees, yes, that's what it was. Because, I mean, literally, that's what you described. These are people who live, the Pine Barrens, they'd live off grid, they don't want to be bothered, leave them alone, and you probably shouldn't cross them, because if you come too close, it's going to be threatening to them. I mean, really, it's kind of scary to think about. But then he told me that they were hanging out at a lake, and it was nighttime. And across the lake, they saw this really big

shadow. Like he said, because he knew I was into a Bigfoot thing. And so he shared this story with me where like it was across the lake they saw this like really tall shadow like extremely tall like almost as tall as the trees tall and they lit it up with their flashlights and their spotlights and he said that it actually seemed like a consumed

the light like it didn't disappear the light didn't make the shadow go away they could still see the shadow when they show the when they shine the lights on it but it it like kind of consumed and took in the light hmm I wonder if it was the same lake.

I know. That's what I was just thinking. I wonder if it's the same lake. Yeah, because I don't, I, well, I had one other incident on Dead Man's Curb, but that was hydroplaining. That wasn't anything supernatural. So that was, I don't know what to describe what came into my car. I don't know if it followed me to give me a warning.

I don't know if it was something that was there. It just, it saw it was already freaked out. I don't know what happened. I just, I just know what happened in the same night within an hour. hour span of each other. So I was, uh, I was not in the quite right, right when I finally got to my friend's house. Well, I'll tell you what. I mean, what you experienced in the pine barons and, uh, what the story that I heard, um, it's mysterious. The pine barons are mysterious. There's a lot of eerie, mysterious things going on in there. I've driven through the pine barons for work and stuff,

but I haven't, uh, actually stopped. But I'll tell you, I'll tell the whole audience, the pine barons are extremely thick and dense. This is not like your, even Pennsylvania woods. Like this is, this stuff is thick and dense. Like you can't, like,

you can't see five feet into the pine barons from the road. Mm-mm. Nope. No, there's a lot of rumors of like gang activity that happens there.

And it's just like, that's a good cover. Which is why, especially at night, you don't want to go, you don't want to, um, you know stop your car for any reason you just want to get going and get home because there's like rumor of gang activity and stuff like that and the pine barons which you know i i wouldn't put it past like there was even a rumor of um if you drive past the car that doesn't have their headlights on and you flick your headlights to remind them hey you got to put your headlights on you're not going to see that then that car is going to start following you in some kind of gang initiation and it's just like you know what that sounds crazy but in the pine

Barrens, I'd believe it. No, I've actually heard the same exact thing. I've heard that same exact thing. And it actually makes every time I see somebody with their headlights off, I think about that. And I usually don't flash them because of that. No. The only time I ever flash my high beams at someone is if there is a police car around the corner and it's a known speed trap.

But you're not really supposed to do that. No. I drive for a living. The way I drive for a living, so the way I look at things is every man for himself. I'm not going to bother you. You don't bother me. Let's just get to where we're going. Use your blinkers.

Yeah, exactly. Use your darn blinkers. That is my number one pet peeve. Use your darn blinkers. I'm not psychically. I'm not psychic. I'm not going to ammatically assume you're coming into my lane, especially with the merging lanes.

If someone doesn't have their merging singer on, it's just trying to jam their car in front of me, it's just like, no. No, you can use your blinker. Not having this. Yeah. Well, Sam, I really appreciate you coming on tonight and just sharing some of these stories and stuff. I had a great time talking with you. Before we get out of here with the whole Pine Barrens thing, what's your sense?

Do you think it's a whole forest that's haunted or do you think there's a little bit of truth to some of the legends? What's your general sense on, you know, the Pine Barron's? The pine barrens has a very interesting energy to it. And I think it's because the trees are so dense and everything's so close together. Like, um, I think there's just a unique energy to it that draws things. Like the Jersey devil, it could have happened. I don't, I don't knock it. I mean, how something could have lived for 200 years. I'm not really sure. I so it probably is a demon and not some creature that people have been seen. is I'm not going to take up time talking about the whole New Jersey legend because that New Jersey devil legend because that can go, that can be its own show from how much you hear about the Jersey devil.

But it's just, it has, I think it has a very drawing energy to it. That's why things manifest manifest in there. That's why people want to be left alone there. There's that, there's a peculiar energy to it. So I think it's just the whole area in itself. That's what my theory is. Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's just something, there's just something about it.

And the more stories you hear. And, you know, the thing is, what really gets me is that it's so close to where I live and I haven't explored it yet. And I don't know if it's because of I'm lazy or I'm scared. I don't know. Because I've heard just so many stories coming out of behind Barrens. It's just, you know, it is a little eerie. But I really appreciate you coming on. Oh, not a problem.

I mean, I have more minor stories, but this has gone all. on long enough. I mean, I can certainly talk to you again, though. Absolutely. Absolutely. Maybe we could bring you back for a patron episode or something like that. Sounds like fun. Totally down for it. Absolutely. Because we can have you have you on and then the patrons call in and ask questions and things like that. It'd be fun. Oh, I would actually love that. Cool beans. Well, until then, I'll talk to you later. Sounds good. Talk to you later. All righty. Bye. Bye.

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