The Confessionals - 692: Dark Shift

Episode Date: October 1, 2024

In episode 692: Dark Shift, this is the culmination of three years of intense research, with new revelations continuously emerging. The story you're about to hear has evolved significantly since Tony first heard it, and it’s far from over. Our guest today, Russ, brings us back to the beginning of an extraordinary journey that started in his old apartment. What started as a simple email of some paranormal stories, has now morphed into a web of stories from many different key players. What unfolds is a tale of mysterious beings, strange encounters, and powerful entities operating between realms, all verified accounts from multiple sources. From shadowy figures to entities with malevolent intent, Russ reveals the details of his experiences, including a terrifying encounter that would shift his entire understanding of the world. As you’ll hear, these incidents were not isolated, but part of a larger, intricate web of interactions between our world and other dimensions.Find the Overtime HERE!Exclusive 'The Sasqualogist' Screening Tickets: Get Tickets Here!Sasquatch and The Missing Man: merkelfilms.comMerkel Media Apparel: merkmerch.comThe Confessionals Members App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZBecome a member for AD FREE listening and EXTRA shows: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinAFFILIATESGo Silent with SLNT Faraday Bags: https://alnk.to/clXuRY5EMP Shield: empshield.com Coupon Code: "tony" for $50 off every item you purchase!SPONSORSSIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] to the Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/the-newsletterMAILING ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/theconfessionals/Discord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelProduced by: @jack_theproducerOUTRO MUSICJoel Thomas - AdiósYouTube | Apple | Spotify

Fronda, centers of Gertinariah Arriba Catalan. At Cabrera of Mar, we've been a new commensment.

This St. George and the not only is a regal is a more, emotion, sentiment. Vine to

Cobrara of Mar at the National 2 between Guadis and Viena where the nature

will be florae the future the It's confirmed the content

of the grand assalto to macdonats We've We've We've assalted

all world to bring here his better products. Prue them all

before to them mackle and the media. Welcome to the show

everybody. This is a special episode, an episode that I've been working on for

nearly three years. In November of 2021, I sat down with a man who told me one of the

most wild stories I've ever heard my life. And usually I don't have threads to

pull at but this episode recording there were threads to pull at and I pulled at them.

And more I pulled at the threads to uncover whether he was telling me the truth or not, the more I realized he was telling me the truth, and there were other people to validate his experiences. Now, some of the people, in fact, many of the people that I spoke with so far, many of them do not want to be on the show and don't want to be associated with this story. He is willing to be associated, but he wanted his face blurred and his name changed. In fact, we have changed several names from this story to protect the identity of the people involved, but this is absolutely one of the most wild stories I have ever heard in my entire life.

We're going to be talking to Russ today about the time that he met a man named Ron, and him and Ron became friends, and some things happened that left Ron with no other options but to fill Russ in on what was going on in his life. Ron spent years, traversing realms, going to other places and working for other entities. This is something he started doing through the lucid dream state, but that he's been doing. then got so advanced that he could do it immediately from physical realm to a spiritual realm instantaneously. He has done this in front of Russ, and Russ comes on today to share what he saw and what he experienced with Ron. Remember, Russ is not the only one that saw Ron do this,

and Russ is not the only one to convey that to me. This is a story that is evolving over time, and I am constantly looking to pull up more threads to uncover more information. Today is an overtime episode where my wife comes in studio with me and Russ to talk about some of the things she uncovered as she was researching this topic. And then on Thursday, we are going to be introducing you another character of this story. His name is Derek and he is the brother of Russ. Derek is intertwined with this story and has his own story of working for entities. I sat down with Derek about two years ago, and you will hear that on Thursday as a member's episode. Moving forward, members will have the opportunity to have these recordings on a playlist for their convenience.

So without further delay, let's get to Russ and this dark shift. This was all circulating around the base that a giant had to kill, but no one was supposed to talk about it. Boney fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. The giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing up this giant. With a giant move, he's got a spear in one hand and he's running really fast. And spears, Dan, holds them up like this.

Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face. They basically decapitated. I look over and there are two. because I know I'm seeing a monster. All right, today we got Russ in studio, Russ. What's going on, man? Not too much. How are you doing? I'm good, man. I'm good.

So we're going to lay some groundwork here before we launch into things. Your name is not Russ. Your name has been changed several times publicly. I've called you different names throughout the last three years or four years, however long it's been. It's been a while. Yeah. I think it's probably been closer to three and a half, four years. years now. And you are here to record the story that people hear about. The story that I talked about

for the first time publicly on Sim Tripoli's show where I talked about you and Ron and that wild story that just lit a fire in people. You're here to talk about it today. And what we're going to do is I don't want to release publicly the recording that we did the initial time because a lot of things have changed, especially on the technology side that we use. And I thought it'd be best if I just had you come down here to the studio and record this in person on good microphones, looking at each other's eyes, gazing into each other's eyes. So if nobody is familiar with what, what I'm kind of hinting at, you'll be very familiar in a few minutes as things develop with this story. But just to let people know, I heard this story before I even moved to Tennessee,

and it was the Genesis, not the Genesis, I would say, but it was a very large launching pad for me into understanding that my assumptions about how things operate between realms and things crossing through were very accurate. And you provided details as to not only how things can come here, but how people go there. And it was, it's a wild story. And what I want to do is start off from the very beginning because I remember when you and I sat down together, you said, you never had a paranormal encounter until that one night you were with your friend at his parents building that that they were, I guess, renovating or something. And you had some things happen there. And it was crazy is that when I sat down with you, you said, or when I sat down with you, I initially thought that's the story we were talking about. And then you go, I have something else I'd like to talk to you about. But if I put it in the email, I thought you wouldn't email me back. Yeah. Yeah. I only thought you would listen to me if I, like, showed you the book and stuff. So I didn't want to include that on the whole rabbit hole until you were committed. Yeah. No, I appreciate that. However you rolled it out to me, I appreciate it. It was, but it definitely, it set me on this trajectory because of what I was able to confirm.

after we talked. You know, like, you gave me one heck of a story that people are about to hear. But then afterwards, I was able to confirm things through other parties that have asked me not to release their information. But, you know, I understand some people, that's not going to be satisfactory, but at the end of the day, I got to respect people's wishes. And I asked the author if I could. They said no. And I will probably reach out again very soon to see if minds have been changed. But they'll still say no.

I think they'll still say no just like Ron. So let's get into this and talk about this wild story that for three, four years, people have been not so patiently waiting for. So take us away, my friend. Okay. Yeah, so the first experience that I ever had was like you were saying, my buddy's family were renovating this super old building in this little tiny town in Michigan. And I went up there with them one summer. I think it was the summer before senior year. It was a long time ago. So that I, anyway, it was a summer and I went up there for a week. The building was really creepy and weird already.

They'd gone there like every summer for years, so they were super used to it. But I wasn't. And the first night that we were there, I was inside on my own. And I was like closest to the outside facing the window that looked outside. and there was like a squeak on the stairs on the opposite side of the room from me. And I didn't look back or anything. I was like, okay, it's old, whatever. And then there was like another squeak and another one,

and it was like clearly the sound of like floorboards squeaking or whatever. I didn't look, I just didn't turn around until there was like a bunch of them like close together and getting closer to me. Like it was just like a little squeak and like the first one that I heard and then it got like a little quicker, a little quicker. And then it felt,

it sounded like something was right behind me. And I thought it was a person. So I turned around and there was nothing there. And then as I was just staring at this, the inside of the building, the same like squeaks moved away from me, just slower kind of. And then I watched nothing,

but I watched like, or as the sounds, went back up the stairs and then that was it for that part and I was really confused. So then I went outside where everybody was and I didn't go back in for a while. That night, well, it was nighttime when that happened. So we all went to sleep, whatever, and the building was being renovated. So they had like sheets for the walls like stapled to the studs and stuff like that. so there was no hard walls anywhere.

Me and my buddy were sleeping in this one corner room. It was actually like right next to the stairs. But I just woke up in the middle of the night to, I was like sleeping on my side. And I woke up facing my buddy in the other bed. And there was this thing leaning over him. I've drawn it before because I can this is a very clear memory

this thing it it was like rolling smoke in the shape of a sort of body like a definite like torso and arms and it was it was like the skin was like rolling smoke and it was like hunched over him

I couldn't see any feet it like trailed off in a nothing and I could see all this because it just happened to be like a mostly full moon that night that was like coming through the window so it was like it was all really clear this thing was like leaning over him like a few inches from his face with its head and its arms were like hanging over him I guess and the fingers were like really exaggeration exaggeratedly long and pointy. And it was just like staring at him while he was asleep.

And I, that's just what I opened my eyes and saw that. And I yelled what the hell, um, to loudly to the point that everyone and his family who was there woke up. Um, but as soon as I did, this thing turned and looked at me. and that's the one. I can't specifically remember its eyes.

I'm, I'm pretty sure they were like yellowish, but that's the one thing. But the, the emotion in the eyes, I do remember, and it was so purely angry or mad at me.

It was so like viscerally mad at me for noticing it saying something, I don't know, but it whipped its head and looked at me and then in the next second it just like smoke shot out of the window and out like the window that the moonlight

was coming from and then it was just gone in the air and all of this happened in the span of like a second and a half and then so it took off I yelled what the hell it took off then he woke up everybody woke up I was like, what happened? And I, they were kind of Christian. They're Christian.

And so I didn't want to explain to them in the middle of the night what I had seen because I didn't think they'd react well to it. So I was like, oh, it's just a bad dream. And then I laid there for a while after and then eventually I did go back to sleep. And I didn't see anything like that again. I found out, I told my buddy like the next day on our own. I was like, hey, this thing happened. And he was mad at me.

He was like, I didn't want, why did you tell me that? I don't like this information. Really? Yeah. He was like, he was mad. He was mad that I brought it up because he would just rather not know. And then, so then I was like, Like, yeah, no, that's fair.

But then he ended up telling me about the building a little bit. I don't know if it's relevant. It's just weird. One, there was like a, the basement was like unfinished. And it was like a used as a slaughter room or something at one point. It was an old building, like a 150 year old plus building. And it had like, like the basement had like stone arches for the doorways and stuff. like it was old old.

And that basement was horrifying. It was just so, just being down there was really, really sketchy. In addition to that, they discovered, while they were tearing into the building, there was a room under the stairs

that was like, maybe like an eight foot by eight foot room, give or take, all white, no way in or out, no window. And in the middle of, it was a table with a bag of Legos on it.

And they accidentally busted a hole in the wall of it. That's the only way they found it. No one knew what that was for ever. And then I found out that during the process of their renovation, there had been like three layers of siding on the outside. And the deepest layer, so like the first layer, had a giant metal

freemason symbol on it and they gave it to somebody because I was like oh shit where's it at and they gave it to somebody I don't know who

but I found all that out after those two incidents that night and again I don't know if that's related I don't know if it's the building the building was weird

that's all I know Should I stop talking so you can ask? I don't know how you want to do this. You're fine. It's stressful. No, it's that's the end of the story that I thought I was getting. Yeah. Because I mean, when I sat down with you, I was like, this is going to be about a 20-minute

interview. And I figured it because I have a, you know, back then I had like this whole list of like growing file of short interviews that I would just paste together. and make one episode out of it. That's what I thought this was going to be. And then before we started recording, you're like, I got something else I didn't talk about, but, you know, whatever, whatever. We're now at the point where I was like, okay, let me hear you other thing.

Maybe we can get a whole episode out of this, you know? And that's what I thought. And little did I know that you were going to give me something that confirm so many suspicions and they also said things that I had never heard before. So I guess what we'll do is we'll start going into that because what we did what we just did was lay the groundwork of your first paranormal experience, which was that weekend that you were there. Up to that point, as far as you remember, you never had any other crazy stuff happen, right? Yeah, nothing that I could remember. So up to that point, did you have any thoughts on the paranormal?

I'd always thought it was kind of cool. But I hadn't experienced anything. So I was like, I'd always believe that there was something that we just didn't know. But I hadn't thought about it a whole lot at that time. I was kind of more into like aliens and stuff, not necessarily paranormal stuff. And then I, and it will be revealed later. But my brother, we grew up in the same house where he had all of his shit from the time I was, it was several years before this incident.

and we like lived in the same room and all this stuff and I and I had never experienced anything in there. Yeah. Which by the way, before we go any further, just so the audience knows, because once you start, we start this train moving forward, we're not putting breaks on it. We're going to let you just rip into every little detail you remember. I want to let the audience know when you get, when they get to the point where they're listening, you talk about your brother, I have already gone. and met with your brother in person. We've spent time together. We've talked to each other.

Yes, we have recorded together. That will be released later this week. And you and I and him sat down, had a conversation, and he confirms everything that you're about to say, according to what he experienced. And your brother is not the only character in this story. There's several characters. So I think at this point,

I don't want to drag it out anymore. I just want you to walk us into, you had this first paranormal encounter. You never had anything before that. You probably thought it was a one-off. That's a strange house. That's a house issue, not anything else issue. And then you meet some people and become friends with them.

And it just... Yeah. Life-changing. Yeah. And there was one, I guess, additional little detail that I had forgotten until pretty recently involving that. Like when I first met

this dude that who introduced all of this to me, we were working together. And I believe that was when he, so eventually he told me that like he knew paranormal stuff,

I guess, is how he said it. And I was like, oh, that's cool, whatever. And, uh, you're talking about Ron. Yes.

Yeah. And, um, so there was like one day at work I remember specifically because he had been, he'd made some comment about like he thought maybe I was important in something. That was like all he had said. He was like, oh, maybe, maybe you're important at this, in this other area that I know about. And I was like, oh, that'd be cool. Can you like find out? And then there was a day at work and he was like speculating, I guess.

He was like, oh, maybe you're a treasure hunter in this place, the place. I was like, oh, that'd be cool. That's a thing. And he was like, yeah, like, I'll look into it. And then he came back like a week after that and was like, and I was like, hey, you know, like you learn anything else. Because at this point, he'd been telling me little things about his life and all this stuff before the incident that I'll talk about in a minute.

but before like before that so he was telling me kind of about his past and I and I was entertaining it so I wasn't shutting him down so he like he kept opening up to me and we were legit friends I mean like like real tight and and he was he was telling me that stuff and he was like oh I'll look into seeing and you know maybe what what your role is and things. And then one day he came into work and he wasn't talking about that stuff anymore at all when I asked him and stuff. And I was like, hey, you know, like what's, you find anything about me or whatever? And he's like, yeah, we're not going to talk about that anymore. And that was just how he said it. And I was like, okay. And he never, he didn't tell me why

until later. But. When he didn't have a choice. Yeah. Yeah. So I had forgotten about that happening up until kind of recently, so it's not in the original. But I guess it's relevant knowing stuff now. But the big thing that kicked everything off, one night.

Well, before you go into that, I just want to clarify what you're saying is, He did lead on to him having some kind of involvement in something paranormal and strange. Yes. But he just didn't give you the details at that moment and the details came later. Yeah, he only gave like real minor stuff. It wouldn't name things and didn't tell me a lot about what he really did. It was more like, hey, I know about this place. and I know a lot about it

and I am in contact with people there kind of vibe but he didn't tell me like his real involvement until he was kind of forced to through other circumstances

all right so so with that said let's get into the story start us off from the beginning that night that things went down what were you doing? Give us every detail you remember and then move us into this whole experience with you and Ron. Okay. So we had, me and him had finished our shift to get, we worked at a restaurant. So it was like, it was like two in the morning maybe or one, something like that. And we were in my room.

I was playing a like battlefield or something. And he and while I was playing, I kept asking him more details about this place and what he knew. And he would be like, oh, I'm not really going to talk about it, whatever. So at one point, he was like, hey, I'm going to go smoke real quick. So he was just going to go up on his own outside. And I was like, I'll chill with you because I have no reason not to. So we go outside and I had like a porch that was like, cinder block walls on the porch kind of.

And so we were both like sitting on that. And while he was smoking, a cigarette, not a drug. So... Never ever. Yeah. It was a cigarette. But so I, as he was smoking,

I just looked up into the sky, kind of like up. There was a hill. basically that I was looking up over. And there was just like a white-ish, like pulsing light. It looked like a stadium light. I thought that's what it was because there was like a little baseball field up there. And it looked like a stadium light kind of just like pulsing in clouds, kind of.

But it just stayed there. It just, it didn't move. And it was bigger than it would have been if it was that stadium. It was a bigger light. And I was staring at it for like minutes. and he hadn't noticed it. And then I was like, has that light been there the whole time?

And he was like, oh, I don't know. You want to go check it out? Because that was kind of his vibe. He's kind of just like go with whatever. And I was like, yeah, sure. So we got into his car, and he's not from the area. So I was telling him like, oh, turn here, turn here. And we got into the car.

car, the place I thought it was was like 30 seconds from my house by a car. So I didn't grab shoes. I didn't have a phone. Nothing. We just got in his car and I guided him to where it was supposed to be. And there was nothing there. But the light stayed the same distance from us up in the sky. And it just like a constant like pulsing every like a like a fade in, fade out. just pulse, just nonstop, and it was big, like a bunch of stadium lights all as one light up in the clouds. And, but it stayed the same distance from us. Anytime, like when we try getting closer, it just, it didn't look like it was moving. It just always moved with us. And we followed this thing out of the city. and on the edge of the city, it turns into like farmland and stuff.

And he stopped the car at one point on a county road that we had taken. And we both got out real quick and just got up and looked at the light again. That was still just doing it. It never stopped doing what it was doing. It was just the same distance from us. But now we had like, there was just fields between us and it. and we both looked at each other like, what the fuck is this?

And then on the other side of the field, there wasn't shit growing at this point. It was just like a field that didn't have a crop in it at the time. And from the other side of the field from us, there was this really weird, like a hyena sound. Like a couple of hyenas or something like that is what it sounded like or coyotes or something. but they, those are not there.

Those aren't in that area. And it sounded like they made some weird, like, howly noise. And it sounded scared, it scared the hell out of me. And I guess him too, because he, like, we both looked at each other again and then just didn't say anything, but dove back into the car. And it sounded like those, whatever it was, sounded like it was sounded like it was. sounded like it was starting to come across the crop to us, like in the direction of us. So we jumped back in the car, but we took off and kept following the light like further out of the city. Because I don't know why.

And then we, I think I was the one that noticed it. Everywhere we were driving that we were following this thing, the ground was wet. everywhere, but it wasn't raining anywhere. It was just this route that we were taking was always wet, and it was not a rainy night. Eventually, we got like 20 minutes outside of the city, so like a half hour from my house, and we were on another road, but this, now the county road was like pointing in the direction of this thing. and it was a little bit closer than it had been, like a little bit closer,

and it just stayed there. And it felt a little different from how it had before. I don't know. It was just a little bit closer, and that was different for this. We were out of the car again, and my buddy, who is normally very jokey and happy and goofy,

he was like looking at this thing real hard for a minute. And I was like looking at him, looking back at the thing because he wasn't talking and he always talks. And then he just looked at it for a second and then immediately was like, get back in the fucking car. And I was like, what?

And then he was like, get in the car right now. We're going right now. And I was like, okay, okay. So we got back in the car and he spun around this road and then just took off the way we had come. and I looked in the mirror and this thing was moving with us again, just following us at like kind of the same pace. And then at one point it looked like it was like starting to gain a little bit. It was never close to us, but it was getting a little closer.

So it was, I never thought it was like right up on us, but it was like closer than it had been. And he kept like, he was like white knuckle in the steering wheel. I remember because it was like freaking me out because it wasn't how he normally acted. like kind of hunched over the wheel super tight and he was like looking at the mirror looking like at the road at the mirror at the mirror and then he was kind of like muttering to himself he was like how

how is it here? I don't know why he's here like what I'm sorry I'm sorry and I was like dude what are you what is this what are you talking about and he's like somehow it's here and it found me and I didn't mean for you to get involved in this I'm sorry

and and that's just he just kept saying that over and over And eventually I got him, well, I was freaking out more than him at this point because I didn't know if we were in like actual danger because that's how he was acting. But he told me eventually while we were still hauling ass back to the city that this thing was an entity from someplace else that he had worked for for a long time. and it wasn't supposed to be here, but it was here now, and it was after him, is initially what he had said. And that's insane. So I thought he was messing with me.

I thought this whole thing, at this point, when he started saying this, I was sure that he was messing with me. Like this was some weird joke that he was doing or some, I don't know. I thought it was a joke. So I was like, dude, just please stop. This is not funny. Just, just we, okay, it's done.

Can we stop? And he was like, no, dude, I'm completely serious. Call my girlfriend. And she'll back up everything I'm saying is what he kept saying. Because he was just like, at that point, he was done with talking and he just wanted to keep driving. So I called her again, very late, but we had all worked at the same shift. so she was still awake too. And I called her and all I said was, is it true?

Is what he's saying true? I didn't say what he said. And she said, oh, the thing, and she used the thing's name that he did. And then she was like, yeah, that's all true. And again, I didn't give her any information. He didn't talk. She just knew what was happening. and I was still freaking out

and I was like please tell me like this was a coordinated thing you thought it'd be funny to mess with me you can stop now like this was a whole thing a weird weird joke whatever and she's like no it's it's a joke it's not a joke

do what he says he'll make sure you're safe it's what she was saying and I So I stayed on the phone with her Because at this point I knew her longer So I trusted her more And I was still tight with him

But I had known her longer So I was just more comfortable With her in this moment Because I still didn't know if he was fucking with me But we eventually got back to my house She met us at my house We We parked in my driveway

and he said, I'll be back. And he just took the fuck off up one of the, I lived like on a steep hill. So there was like a couple hills that led into mine. And he took off up one of these hills so fast. It was faster than a person should be able to move. It felt like, or an Olympian or something. But he wasn't that. He's as a dude.

But he just took off. to the dark, like, there weren't really streetlights there, so he was gone. And then I was just standing there with her, no shoes in my driveway in the middle of the night. And I don't think I'd even hung up the phone when she was, like, still standing there. I didn't know what was happening. We just stood there for a minute. She didn't say anything. I didn't say anything. And then from an alley behind my house, there was this insane, like scream thing sound that happened. Like it's like something got ripped apart is how it sounded like an animal or something was just destroyed real quick.

And he walked out of that direction of that alley and he was covered in this weird. I don't know if it was like a dark green or a black something, but it was like, patches of it were all over his arms and his shirt and it was like all over him. It looked like dark blood. It was super dark. So I don't, I don't, I have a weird memory of it being like greenish, but it might have just been, I don't know. But he had this shit all over him.

And for him to come out from where he was or where he came out from, he would have had to sprint up a hill, up two hills. all the way around the block and then come back in the direction of my house and then do something and then walk out of the alley all in the span of like not long at all and he walked out covered in this stuff she never said anything and I was like what in the fuck is happening please tell me now this is not and and all he was saying he's like, I'm tired. That thing was put there by the entity.

I think it was here to watch you or to maybe catch me here. It was something like that, but it's gone now. And I, and that's really all he said. And he was like, I got, I have to go home. And so then they just drove home. like while I was standing standing in the driveway they just left

I eventually later like a long time later he told me whatever that thing was was there for me or my brother after he learned information

and it was he described it as like the only way that like a person could recognize it, I guess, was like sort of like a licorish entity, like made out a licorish.

The entity was like made out... The thing. Not what we chased, but what he killed or whatever. Yeah. He said it looks kind of like black licorish, is what he was saying. Like the body looks like black licorish. Yeah.

Like this thing just looks like that. Like black twizzlers or something? I don't know. That was what he said, but he didn't say that for a long fucking time after. So I, all this happened in this span of like, I mean, I guess we were driving for like, uh, 45 minutes, an hour total.

Um, and it was just such a crazy shift between like, just having fun goofing off following this light that was weird. And then I guess we were in danger. I still don't really know, but he did. and has that that was really all he told me um before we move forward into the next stages of this story let's just unpack a little bit of that first night i want to make sure everything is kind of laid out properly you see a light in the sky it's pulsating you guys chase after it it continues to stay to evade you but it's almost like an equal distance yeah at times it seems like it was

closer than other times when you guys... It only got closer when we were like out of the city. And we weren't around anything. And then I think that was if this thing had a plan it was that to get us like

real isolated. That's my question. And then, because it was closer. Like when we parked on that county road that was far out of the city it was just a straight county road pointing towards this thing. and that's when he got scared.

Yeah. I think when he figured out what this thing was, or I have a feeling he knew a lot longer than he let on and he wanted to confirm it. And then he realized I'm guessing that it, that was probably its plan. Yeah. Okay. So you guys are out there.

You stopped the first time. You hear the howling, growling, whatever it was across the empty field. Yeah. It was far enough way you couldn't see anything other than just hearing, right?

Correct. Okay. Because it was dark. There was like some moon, but the biggest light was the fucking thing we were following. So like, yeah, even at that point,

we were like just out of the city, but there wasn't lights around. So I couldn't see anything, but it sounds. sounded like hyena wolf coyote things and then it sounded like they were tearing through the dirt like at us. Okay. And then that's what we got in the car. Never saw him.

I don't want to spend too much more time on this. I could start unpacking this because of things that I do know now as far as the story goes and other things that I've uncovered. So we'll do that another time, whether it's during this recording or the overtime. but you guys are going back to town. You're on the phone with her. She confirms everything to you. Almost like, almost as if like it was old news to her. Yes.

And I, and that's part of why I thought it was a joke because she knew like, like, they had discussed these details and like, hey, we're going to fuck with him. These are the details that you're going to say to him. That's why I thought. that. Okay. So initially. Yeah. So you're in your mind, you're trying to find logical reasons. Yes. And you're like, okay, we're falling in the sky. That's how do they control that? And but everything else they could control. And so when you got, when you get back to your house, is the first thing that was the wake up call to you was his physical movement at how fast he moved.

Does that was that was like, whoa. Well, it's like a weird split in my head because the first time, the first time I felt like something was real and weird was when his personality changed when he told me to get in the car because it was not like he normally acts ever he never talks like that direct and like pointed so that was the first time

I was like oh well this is different and then and then I was like trying to justify it I was like okay joke and then I would go back to like when he was freaking out driving. I was like, he's scared of something. And then I was like, okay, maybe he's just acting. And then it confirmed it again when I called her. And then a few minutes after that, I was like, okay, this is a joke. And then we got back to my house and he just fucking took off. Then I was like, um, I, he's a athlete, I guess. I was, I was trying to justify

it somehow. And then the, the scream thing in the alley and he came back with this shit all over him. And then they left. And then I was like, that had to be something. Yeah. Right. And so from my perspective, trying to be in your shoes, I could see how everything could possibly be explained away except for one,

the light in the sky. How do you control something like that? Yes. You probably could, if you're setting something up to play a prank on you, set something up to make noises and, oh, he's killing something. but you described how fast he ran and I want to ask you, you're in a safe place right now, you can be honest with me. Was it kind of like inhumanly fast as in like not just an athlete,

but almost like Captain America fast? Yes, that's how it seemed like to me. That's why it felt, it didn't feel real. I thought it was like a dream or something at this, at so many points in this because like these things are happening that shouldn't be happening. He took off from a for just, he was just, we were standing in my driveway and then he was just gone in this sprint up a hill, up a steep hill. And then a few seconds later, we heard him in the alley. So the, the route that he would have had to run, there was no other option.

He had to run around a whole block up a hill, a steep hill. and then back down the alley to get there. I don't know of a person that could do that. Without anybody knowing details about like this specific neighborhood and shit, I don't know how that could be done. Is this the same house that I went and visited when I was up there? Where your brother had the book. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So I can confirm that hill then. It's a steep hill. And then the one that he would have had to go up was a, it leads into that hill. And that's even steeper. that's that's the the street right next to mine that's crazy steep it's like a fucking mountain

and and he had to run up those and then around and down in a few seconds it's hard to fathom it's hard to fathom yeah and he could there was there was no there was no way he could get there any other way there was not another route that he could take

yeah so and he just knew he just hopped out the car and just gone. So that was your first night. Welcome to the weirdness. Let me ask you this parting question from this first story and segment of this large story. You guys go back to the house. You see him run like that.

You hear the killing. He comes back in this black, bloody sludge stuff. First of all, I've heard about it. since, and I'll talk to you about then. But they get in the car and they leave. He's tired. They leave you at your house. What were you doing at that moment?

What was it going through your mind at that moment? Were you able to go to sleep? Did you go in the house? Were you scared to be outside? I got into my car. So after a few minutes, I just stood out there because after, I didn't realize it until we got to my house, but at some point when we got back in the city,

the light that was following us was gone. It didn't follow us all the way back to where we started. Like it stopped a couple minutes, I guess, before my house. And I didn't realize that until he was gone. And I looked up and it was gone. And then I just, like, stood there, and then I just got in my car and drove to my girlfriend's house who hadn't worked with us that.

night. So she was asleep. And I just went in there and, like, laid down with her. And she was like, hey, what's happened? Like, she was worried. I woke her up. But she was like, are you okay? Okay. And I didn't know what in the fuck happened. So I didn't say anything to her. All I said was, I just really want to be here right now is all I said. And then I just stayed there. And I was awake for several hours after that. Just like awake, staring at the ceiling. I imagine. Yeah.

Yeah. And then he gave me like it like not a lot of info initially. Like it's it was always real spread out and shit. So this insane shit happened. And then he just kind of ghosted for a little while. And then he came back around and was like, oh, you know, little little stuff here and there and then yeah so it was never like we didn't ever really like break it down in a whole event it was it was like conversations after that that kind of built up to

like explaining it I guess so so he he didn't like eagerly fill you in no like hey man since you went through this with me I got to fill you in he was kind of like let's see if we can pretend that never happened yeah that's what he tried to do like the next time we saw each other was like a couple days later, I think, when we worked again. And I was like, hey, um, what the fuck? And he was like, oh yeah, how's today? Like he, he tried just like to totally move past it. And I was like, whatever, what, what, if this is true, if you are not, I was still trying to convince myself that they were, it was this weird joke. And so I was like, if, if, if what you're telling me is real, my entire view of the world has,

shifted and you're not talking to me. And that didn't change very much from just how he normally was after that. All right. So it's hard to get information out of him. Take us into how did you start getting information out of him? Where does the story go from here? Was it another experience or was he revealing information to you before another experience? So like before all this happened when he was telling me he came or he, he knew about this other place, whatever, basically like an upside down type thing,

connected to dreams, and he could go there, and he spent a lot of time there. And again, all of this information came in like little chunks randomly. And he spent a lot of time here. That's how he were at this other place, and time works differently there. So every night when he would sleep from the time he was like 11 or 12, he was going to this other place and then spending like weeks, months

in one night there in a body that was like waiting for him when he went to sleep and that was where he met this thing, the thing that we were following. He called it

Sujant and I haven't heard that anywhere except for him saying that. But that's what the light was. And he worked for that thing for a long time there. Like years and years, he was like this thing's right hand and foreserve, whatever. And he tried getting out of that life, I guess. Well, there's a lot of stuff with that.

But so he thought he locked this thing out from being able to come here. That's why he was so surprised that it was here. that's why he was so freaked out because he thought there was no way that it could happen and all that. But then it was just there. So. So that's what he's telling you. But at some point, he tells you how this all starts for him. When did that happen? When did you start getting a full picture as to it? Or was it when he gave you the reading material? Yeah, it was kind of that. he I don't I can't say like oh it was a week after this whatever but eventually he um he told me about these the the dreams and and doing all the stuff and the dreams and

the training and whatever he went through and then I knew I could tell he was starting to get annoyed with the questions because he just would like nicely try to move away from them or not answer or like real short answer like oh yeah I did that or whatever at a certain point his mood changed after that thing showed up. And he didn't want to talk anymore about this. But before that, he was more open, a lot more open. So eventually I just kept bugging him with questions. Anytime we worked together, I was like, hey, this thing, that thing, what's, you know, anything I could ask him.

And then eventually he was like, here, here's this book, read this book. It's about me. My friend wrote it about me and my friends. it says it's fiction, but it's not fiction. We did that for deniability or whatever. Just read this and stop asking me stuff. So I read that and it was insane. And then I kept asking him stuff after that.

And then he was getting annoyed. So then he was like, okay, the person who wrote it is here in town. They were going to college where we were. And they'd been friends for a long time. So he was like, here I'll introduce you to them at one point. So we met up at like a Burger King and he introduced me to the person

and so I met the person who wrote the thing and they had like a weird relationship to even at the time it felt kind of weird but I didn't know enough about her and he was he's just very good at only letting me.

people see what he wants them to. So I didn't really know him as much as I thought. So there was a weird thing with them. And she was not psyched to meet me. She did not want any part of talking to me or talking about the book or anything. Like she just, I would ask about stuff. And she would just kind of like look at him and wait for him to answer. I can see her doing that.

Yeah, she was not happy to meet me. And I was like, now I'm like, well, why did you even say yes to meeting me? Yeah. But yeah, she was not down. He may not have told her. That's probably what happened. Yeah, I mean, do you want me to say like what she is? Yeah, you can say what she is and stuff.

And just to give some side information here that we didn't have an initial recording. but I have talked to her. She does not want to be associated with this. She's actually run halfway across the country to get away from this specifically. And she was stunned that I tracked her down. And just so everybody knows, please, if you're going to listen to anything, listen to what I'm about to tell you. The book is not available anywhere. You can't buy it anywhere.

She worked. She had a stocker. and she took all the books off the shelf, and it wasn't out very long, but she collected all of them that she knew of. And so you can't buy this book anywhere. And she doesn't want to be attached to the book. I've talked to her.

I've talked to her for hours upon hours several times, but she doesn't want to be tied to this story whatsoever. So that's why we're just going with it that way, because I got to respect her wishes. And there are some people out there that were internet sleuths and figured it out. And if you're listening right now,

I would just like to remind you that you did promise you're not going to tell people. And I'm trusting that you're not going to go back on your word. That's all I had to say about that. Yeah. This is like real,

this is real people's lives and shit. Like this, there's a reason a bunch of us don't want to be directly associated with it because this shit's fucking crazy and it's real and it has implications in a lot of ways. Right. So if you, however you feel best to move forward, but I don't want you to skim past the description of how this unfolded for him because it's important to state the conditions of what he described going through with this recruitment process, what he saw and what was going on. If you can't remember, I can help you.

Because I don't know if you told me or if she told me into conversations, but that what he was doing, like, I don't want to give it away if you want to talk about it. Yeah, I mean, it was a long time ago since I read the book. But from, again, from the random times that he would tell me stuff and then would stop telling me, from the time he was like 11 or 12, he would, he would dream and wake up in a different place. And this other place was real. It had other people. They knew him. He had like a life there. And while he would sleep here, there wasn't really a limit to the time that might pass there. and he, I guess, was supposed to go there, or he was connected there or something.

That's why he did. There was a whole other, like, body for him there. He had a counterpart is what he called it. There was a counterpart there that was like his mentor. And if it helps people, okay. it if you imagine like Middle Earth or like Narnia those those are both based on where he was those the authors of those books also were dreamers who experienced this place only they didn't realize I don't think that it was so they made these these worlds and these stories that were based off of that. A bunch of media has done this on accident.

I think there's a bunch of it. Specific authors, C.S. Lewis and Tolkien. I think I'm pretty sure based on what I've read, Dean Coons, Stephen King, probably some, whoever made Stranger Things. Definitely Stephen King. I personally believe that. Nobody has told, but just from the stories that I've seen Stephen King come up with and the things that he said, and hopefully for the overtime, my wife will be sitting in here, she has more information on this.

But some of the things that he has said on how he came up with these stories, he thinks that they were just wild dreams that he dreamt up and he turned into stories. And some of the stuff is like mirror image. Yeah, that's how Dean Coons is too. But, well, Stephen King, he was fueled by Coke for a lot of that writing time. The Coke could be a vehicle on how you shift there. It could be. I think there could be aspects of different drugs and shit that could work.

So the one who wrote the book is another one. My buddy had a name for them. They were like, it's not like a spectator. Um, right. Yeah, something like, I guess like, I guess a scribe kind of. They basically, they, they were their people who through a natural ability know this stuff. And she was one of them. And these other people are like that too. Other other people like my friend is not that. He, he had a different purpose and a different reason for being there. Um, so that's kind of the context of. that. When he started to go in there when he was a kid initially, he was like, oh, this is just cool. It was like a fantasy world. So there was like crazy creatures and like he, it was like a book, you know, of a kid just going to a magical place. And they were just fucking around. And then eventually it turned into training for him where he was trained how to like fight and like fight a lot.

And so the connection to media, there's a bunch of it. One of the things that he did for this Sujic thing for years at one point was going into other things, dreams while they were asleep to affect their dreams or their subconscious or something. Things are people. Both. Okay. Like people or things over there. and he could do it here too. And they were,

he had a name for him, like Dreamwalkers or some shit like that. But like they could do a lot of stuff in a person's head while they were asleep. That was like what he specialized in for a long time while he was still young in that world. And then he was good at that. So he moved up and got closer to being tighter with with Sujent, I guess. And the thing trusted him. He became more involved in like,

I guess being a leader of this thing's like army, I guess. Eventually that's what it became. So he was doing that for a long time while he was over there. And he did a lot of bad things and then met his girlfriend and then started to realize that he was doing bad things. Because at the time, he just thought this was the thing that was nice to me. So I'm doing what it wants. And then he realized eventually that it was like bad stuff morally. so then he stopped doing that, tried to cut off everything, thought he did, and then that's why he freaked out so much when Sujan came here.

Yeah, so he did a, there was a, he lived a long time in that other place, so there was a lot of shit there that happened. But that was kind of the, the gist of his connection with, with that thing. Do you remember the recruitment process? Yeah. Because like, all right, so specifically like the cave environment. Yeah.

And what Sujent was wearing, that kind of stuff. Yeah. So he, the first, as he told me, the first time that he woke up in a dream, I guess,

he was in like a tunnel that was like all, there was no lights anywhere. He was just in a tunnel. and so he just walked in the direction he was pointing and he walked for like hours and hours and it was just like a giant tunnel system and eventually he came up on this like big cave where like other tunnels led to

basically like a big bigger like domed thing and it had like a big chair in the middle of it and um as from from what I remember a sujant was sitting, something was sit, I don't think it was sujant that was sitting there at the time. But this thing told him that

he, that it, he was special and it could, it could teach him things and he could do things and he could, this thing could show him how to do things. And then he was like, oh, cool. And then he started being able to dream and wake up in this other body.

And the, and I've thought I was crazy for over a decade at this point because of all this shit until I started connecting things that my brother told me eventually and my brother went through this same fucking tunnel system to find well I don't think he found a thing sitting in the chair but he found like this room, the same exact shit that my friend described. He described.

And they had never talked to each other. There was no reason that they should say the same thing. And then you've had people that I've said pretty much the same thing. So my segue, just since you bring that up, J.R., we've found the show. And that was something that you heard

before on my show. Because J.R. said this was an overtime from episode 309. The overtime for it, he was talking about how he was in the middle of having sex with his girlfriend and then all of a sudden he was gone he's walking through a tunnel system and he walked into a cave like a big opening and he said that when he walked in he heard a voice say you're now entering the throne room and then there was an entity dressed in black standing there recruiting him to work for them he denied it found himself back in this side and was

never bothered again now my my thing here is this this is something that i i just connect connected Adatu, if it wasn't Sujant that was doing the recruitment, that adds an entire new layer of possibilities now. Because all these years that I've been collecting people's experiences that are similar, I've always come across people saying they're recruited by an entity, but just never was Sujan. But it sounds like you're saying Ron wasn't probably, as far as you remember, wasn't recruited by Sujan himself, but if he chose to accept and that's when Sujan came in picture? Yeah, because specifically he did clarify that at some point because my my fucking brother who I've met and I've clarified with what.

Yes. I have verified what you're about to say. Yeah. He had a whole lot of experiences when we were kids that I didn't know. But at one point, he was by himself in the woods at. like a park close to my house. And he saw a frog in the woods. So then he like went up to the frog and it hopped around a tree.

He followed it around the tree and then there was a cat there. And then he followed it around another tree and there was a guy there in a purple suit. And his eyes were like purply, like swirly. And he, this thing offered to teach my brother how to do stuff, how to, how to, how to, specifically open portals. That was my brother's natural ability

that he didn't know and this thing could teach him how to open them. That was what he did. So, so that, that happened.

And then my, my buddy's girlfriend also ran into this thing at a totally different point. And it was the same like progression of things like frog cat thing. And it tried getting

her to... My brother agreed, if that wasn't clear. She, he was trying... This thing was trying... Agreed to what? To work for it? Yeah. To learn from it and whatever, because he was like 12. Did he know the name of it at this point? I don't think he knew then.

Are we saying the name? We can. Okay. It was Ball, apparently. And my brother's pretty fucking sure of that. Ball tried to recruit my buddy's girlfriend and my buddy had prepped her for the chance that something might

do this, something might try to contact her and whatever. So she knew. She already knew what this thing was about and she told it no. And that was the end of that. But my brother didn't say no. but I have a memory, a clear memory of my buddy clarifying that ball, because he knew, he knew about Ball. Ball and Sujan are different things. They're kind of like the same power level, it sounds authority level, but they're like lateral to each other, kind of.

and ball is like a little higher, a little, like a little laterally, diagonally higher. Higher than Sujant? Yeah. Interesting. I've always had the different perception. I always thought the Sujant was higher than ball. No.

Because he was like more concerned with ball from my memory. And, and yeah. Could it be that he was more concerned about ball because ball wasn't his boss? I think so. I think they, again, you saying that reminded me for some fucking reason. The Ball and Sujent were basically like the same rank, if you want to call it that, and they were having like an internal little thing between each other. So my buddy spent a lot of years working against Ball for Sujent and

so that was why I know there was a difference between him. And I think part of why he might have been more concerned with Ball is because supposedly Sujent shouldn't be able to come here at all. And it was just a light when I saw it. But Ball could be here multiple times in the same city, two different people, and could kind of do whatever he wanted. So that's more powerful, I guess.

Okay. So what I find interesting about this is how your brother and Christy, Ron's girlfriend, they were recruited by Ball. Ron worked for Sujin but wasn't recruited by Sujin in the moment. Do we know what that entity's name was? Did they recruiting for him? I think it was Ball. And then they ended up having some, some thing between them in their little power struggle or something. It all sounds movie shit, but it's not. It gets better. It gets better because of the confirmation.

So I want to make sure we go into Ron's friends. And I want to make sure, and maybe even now, if you think it fits, we go into a deeper analysis of your brother's experience. and I will tell people that, like I said in the beginning, I met your brother, we all sat down together for hours. And he told me his experiences for hours. And he, there is a signifier. I'll let you, there's a signifier on his body. Should I say or do you want to say it?

No, you can say it. So your brother at some point got a, Ball's sigil tattooed on his back right shoulder. and you told me that before when we first met, when I went to meet him, that was, I think, one of the first things I asked him, I said to him, when we sat down, he didn't know what we were sitting down about.

He knew it was about something, but he really didn't know what. Because I remember bringing up, your brother tells me you were recruited by an entity, and he kind of looked at you, looked at me, and he's like, yeah. And I was like, can you tell me the name? And he goes, ball.

I said, do you have bald sigil tattooed on your shoulder? He says, yeah, and he showed me. And so at what point do we want to get into your brothers, the details of your brother's experience? And also, like I said, I do not want to forget to bring up Ron's friends because that's a very important key to this whole thing. And then at some point, we need to talk about the next thing you experienced with Ron. Yeah.

So I guess talking about his friends would kind of go in with what he did there. So he was going there for years of this other side time. And it was like over the course of like a few months here when he would sleep. Eventually he got good enough at it that he could go to this place without sleeping. And he just kind of like master it, I don't know, projecting or something. Almost like walking through a portal? Well, yeah, but it was just in his mind. He didn't walk anywhere.

He could just go there. And so, okay, so just so I understand the conscious. Because it's like a subconscious shift, like a consciousness shift to someplace else. So the consciousness that would go there when he was sleeping, he could do it, take that consciousness and go there just without sleeping. Yeah. He could just end up standing and like, oh, yep, there now. And yeah. So eventually, because he was a kid when it's hard to remember that he was like a child when this happened. He was like, you know, 12. So he eventually got his friends, like three or four friends to try with him like one night. He was like, hey, do this thing. You're going to dream and then you're going to wake up here. And then like we can hang out in this. cool place. So they did it. They became like a little group of friends there. They could all do different things. Um, like his, his best friend, uh, developed an ability to, to change, uh, into like a werewolf thing. And I know it's crazy, but he retained the ability to do that.

at least somewhat on this side too when he was an adult after he had learned how to do it and he did it for a long time over there he could he could do it here too just like my buddy after a long time could do what he could do there here and his girlfriend was witness to that so so there was a whole his whole friend group they were they were kind of like a whole crew that was working for sujant at different points and then it led into a whole thing where they ended up fighting Sujant and during that is when my buddy thought that they had closed the ability

for Sujant to ever come to our side yeah from what I remember one of the friends counter one of the friends over there during this big thing ended up getting really hurt

or dying there and then in real life, that friend was like comatose. And that was, that was just the end of them. Like, in real life, kid just didn't wake up again. And then after that happened, then they were all like, oh, we're definitely not doing this anymore. And then I brought my, my, my buddy kept like going back every now and then. Because he just kind of like called to him, I guess.

So what you described here with the comatose side of things, not identical, but similarities to people who say that when you do astral projection, you're connected to your body by a silver cord. And if that silver cord is cut, the body dies. So if there was something that happened to him in this other state of existence where, say he maybe didn't die, but he was severely injured and comatose there, maybe he was comatose here. But, maybe if he did die there and whatever part of him wasn't, whatever part of him left his body couldn't return, just left him a vegetable. Is that kind of how you read it? Yeah, I think that's, that's what happened. Again, sounds fucking crazy,

but this happened. There was like a kid in this group that just didn't wake up one day. And then he just stayed not waking up. So it's real. It's a real thing. Yeah. So, but his, the guy who could do the, the, the,

werewolf shit, whatever you want to call it, could do it here. Yeah, I'd like to just comment on him and hopefully we can remember to bring this up for the overtime with my wife. She dove into this hard. And that's why we want to bring her in. But she found them. She found these guys. And the guy that you're referencing and stuff, there are things about him. And I don't remember the details, so maybe she will.

But I remember there are things about him that's like, oh, yeah, I could see the werewolf side of him. Yeah. And it's even like actual physical changes like they could all fucking do. They could change from what they normally are just here. Like he could and did for people like as a party trick would like grow his teeth out in front of them. And then he has fangs. and then my buddy would play it off as like, oh, funny Halloween, stop doing that.

But it was real. Like, it was, he could do that shit. And that, did you ever meet any of these guys? I met that one. I actually met a couple of them. And they did not want to talk to me. I was accidentally a douche in the meeting, though. Because through the course,

of my buddy revealing stuff about myself I have apparently through like some people are like old souls I guess if you want to put it that way

and that soul has carried on for a long time and it has a certain purpose mine has a certain purpose that keeps things shut and it's weird that me and my brother are so opposite

and his whole thing is opening stuff and mine is supposed to be keeping something shut. He told me that and at this party, it was my buddy's birthday party that these other dudes were there. And I wasn't trying to be annoying. And at the time, I didn't understand the years that they had experienced mentally.

I just didn't have a grasp of it. So what they have experienced is like fucking decades of like fighting and almost dying and friends dying. And I didn't know any of that. But I met him and I was like, hey, my buddy says I'm kind of important in your world is what I said. And then he was like, who are you? I get, yeah. Yeah.

And I don't think he would have talked to me anyway, but he definitely didn't have to that. and then that was my only interaction with him and then I haven't seen him since. But yeah. So I think what we'll do is we will shift into your brother because that kind of jumps us into your next firsthand experience

with the bizarre and Ron. So you want me to go into some of like my brother's passed before that point. Yeah, his past and even some of the things that he, uh, when he would go and bring back with him, you were able to verify one of those things. And, um,

also then talking about that night where he was attacked. Yeah. And we'll let it know all that. Okay. Um, so, we're only a couple years apart. Um, I'm older.

And, from when I was like 14 or something so he was like 12 or 11 he was having dreams where he would go somewhere else and he was just a kid and we didn't have like growing I feel like it's an important context

growing up my parents outlawed anything magicy like Disney or Harry Potter or whatever like we didn't have any access to this shit at all especially at that time. So we didn't have, neither of us had context for any of this.

We hadn't even like seen Star Wars because they thought it was magicy. So he, he would wake up in a dream someplace else. And then he would just hang around there. And at, at one point, all kind of around the time that he met Ball,

he woke up one night in like a purple version of our house, like the light and shit was purple. It was like all, like the atmosphere was purplish. And there was a wall in our room that in real life was like complete. It wasn't torn apart. In this world, it was like torn open, the interior wall. And there was a book in the wall cavity that he granted. and when he woke up, it was with him in real life.

And this book had spells or something in it. I never, I didn't see that. Oh, you didn't see the book? No, I know. Oh, I thought you did. Uh-uh. Because he didn't tell me about it until after he got rid of it. Gotcha.

So I never saw it. But he found this thing pretty, pretty close to when he met Ball. and then he started learning, I guess, stuff from it with the aid of Ball. Plus, Ball was teaching him how to use his natural ability to open portals. That's what my brother, what his use was to Ball. He would get told by Ball, like, go to this location at this time and just hang out there for a minute. and he would and then he would like hear something

that wasn't there before or see something and then that was it and then he would go home and that was what Ball wanted and that just his natural aura I guess ability or something is what Ball needed

at certain points in time to open whatever he wanted to come out okay so I have a question is it and you probably don't have an answer for this, I wish I would have thought to ask him. Is it that your brother is like a key to a portal? Is your brother the portal himself? Because clearly there's something about your brother that's allowing things to come through. Yeah, I guess I don't know if

if he creates it or unlocks it. I don't know. But the weird, I kind of feel like, it would be a coincidence if he is a key to unlocking it because I was very specifically told to avoid certain keys due to my connection to all this of keeping something closed. And we're real different people. It would just kind of be like cosmic funniness if he's like a key and I'm a lock, I guess. I'm going to lock you in my basement so you don't ever come and contact with your brother again. Well, we might be experimenting on you. Yeah.

Yeah, we don't, yeah, we don't contact each other much. But I, yeah. So I didn't know this either, but like at one point when we were sharing the room that was the same wall with the book in it and shit, there was like a mirror in there on a dresser that I guess always kind of seemed a little weird to me. but I never had any specific reason to like not like it. But he was like freaked out by this thing because all the time when he would walk in front of this mirror, if he looked into the mirror, it would be like a different place, a different version of the room with different things in it. And there was like a few specific ones that would like interact back with him. There was like an old lady and a dude and a big wolf at one point.

and I didn't know any of this until years after we were both out of the house. But, okay. At one point when my brother, he was like, I guess 17, something like that, around the time that this whole stuff happened with my buddy, he didn't want to do what Ball wanted, at least not all the time. I think he started to question it or he might have just like wanted to be rebellious.

So kind of as like a punishment or a fail safe or something ball I don't know if he created them or something but he attached these like monkey things to my brother and these monkey things like had a face but they didn't have

like a mouth and they just had huge eyes. and they would just like swing on like the power lines and the trees in the backyard and just stare at him through the window and they would show up if my brother said no to Ball. If Ball was like, hey, go here. And my brother was like, no. Then these things would show up and harass him until he would do it. And then I guess he had been doing this for a while at this one point. and was trying to legitimately cut off his connection with ball as much as he could.

And so my room was below, it was in the basement. And one night, it was, I don't know, like midnight or something. And there was just like a bunch of like thumping and like weird noises right above me where he was sleeping because he had been sleeping in the living room. I think now, because he was fucking scared of the room that his bed was in, and he didn't tell anybody. And that's why he just was like, I want to sleep in the living room now. I'm just connecting that now. So he was sleeping in the living room. There was like a weird, weird, like, scuffling noises and shit above me.

And he, like, thumped onto the ground. And, like, I heard him, like, say an owl and shit. And I ran up there. And he had, like, little scratches. all over him, like all over his arms and back and chest and everything. And he was like, they got in, they got in. I don't know how they got in. And I was like, dude, slow, slow down. I don't know what you're talking about. Tell me what you're talking about. And me and him, at that point especially, had virtually no actual relationship at all. Like, just wouldn't,

we lived, you know, in the same house and that was the extent of it. But he went into this whole thing. He was like the monkeys from outside. They got in. Somehow they got in. They just scratched the shit out of me. They just attacked me. And I didn't know about these things at all, but I tried calming him down. I thought it was a dream and he had like scratched himself or rolled on the ground and scratched himself or something.

But I eventually got him calmed down. And then I went outside and called my buddy because I didn't know who else to call. and I told him just the crazy shit that my brother had just said. Like, some monkey thing, I don't know, got into the house. It's basically what I told him because I didn't know. I didn't have any other information to tell him. And all he said was I'll be there in a minute. Well, he said I'll be there soon.

And this was late, keep in mind. But he showed up like pretty quick in a car. He didn't like sprint here. He didn't fly. No. But we were outside. and it was cold and

and he was like real serious again like he wasn't normally and he was he told me things are going to get really weird for a little bit just trust me and there was nothing else I could do so I was like okay

and he closed his eyes and he like looked down and I watched I watched his body change. His legs got longer by like several inches and I could hear like creaking. I don't, I guess, bone or something. His fucking skeleton was changing.

He got his, he got way taller, like several inches taller. his eyes changed his whole fucking personality changed his arms like he just got like taller and he was already kind of like thin so he got like

a lot skinnier because he was like stretched out more and I know he was fucking taller because after he after he changed he just kind of like looked at me and didn't say anything and and I was like what is happening and all all he said

in a voice that wasn't completely different, but it wasn't his normal voice, said, your friend is gone, he'll be back. And so I just stared at him for a while, and, like,

a while. And then it was cold. So I was like, I guess come inside or something. So I know he was taller because my, the, the stairs down to my room,

there was like a ledge. that like real tall people would hit would hit their head on and he didn't have a problem clearing it ever whenever we hung out but he had to hunch like several inches down to avoid this thing when he came down into my room he he got taller his hit he got taller we got down there and then he just sat on my couch next to me like with his hands on his knees and just was staring at the wall in front of us. And that was it. He wasn't doing anything besides that. And I just kept fucking looking at him because I, this was not my friend, but it's like sort of his body. And we just stayed like that. And he wouldn't talk to me. He wouldn't answer anything. I was asking like, is he going to be back soon? What are you? And he would not, he just wouldn't talk to me. And then a long, like a half hour later. It was a long time.

40 minutes later or something, he changed again. He looked down and then he like, I heard him and saw him like change back to his self. And he was like exhausted, like barely awake. And he was like, the problem with your brother is gone. I'm going to go to bed now.

And then he just left and went to bed, I guess. Like he just went home. And he told him. me before he left not to say anything to my brother, but that the problem was gone. And then he just left. And like the next day, I asked my brother, I was like, what do you remember from last night? And he's like, I don't know, I had some weird dreams, but that was it. And that was it. And he didn't, he had, he didn't have a memory of anything getting in the house and fucking him up. He still had scratches on him, but he didn't know what they were from.

He just made up a reason, I think. So he didn't know. He just didn't know what happened. And I guess for a long time, that was the end of those things. From what my buddy described later, like years later, it was years. He went to an upside down version of my house. when he changed and something else went into his body, he went into this other part, and there was a lot of monkeys like around my house, like a bunch of them, a whole, like a lot. And he spent over there, like hours fighting these things

and murdering them so they couldn't come back inside. And it was like a whole, like, assault of these things. And him doing that, cut them off from my brother. And then it worked for a long time, but then my brother brought it back on himself by dipping his toe back in to talk to ball or something

because it sounds, I don't know, for whatever reason. So him going back kind of undid what my buddy did and brought them back into his life, but for a long time, they were gone. And my brother didn't know that my buddy did that for like a decade. Yes. Because I did not tell him. Right.

And I think you kind of skipped this part in your description, but you didn't tell your brother because Ron said if you tell him it would undo what I did, right? Yes. He told me that was because he was like, just don't talk to him about what this was. And I was like, why? And then he was like, because that would, I guess, bring awareness. to it or something and it would undo what I just spent all this time doing. And then I believe I, I, I, I, listen to that because this is way out of my fucking field. And so I just listened to him.

So to kind of piggyback off of what you just said, and maybe my memory doesn't serve me correct on this, but as far as I remember, I remember sitting across the table from you and your brother and him sharing this about how they're back and I feel like you and I kind of looked at each other and was like well if they're back you might as well tell him what you did for that night I think that's what had happened

because I don't think I told him until that interview about my buddy doing that he just thought they went away for a while and didn't know why and it was my buddy on that fucking night he went into whatever and fought them off for him

that was such a surreal moment again, that will be aired later this week on Thursday, but it was such a surreal moment to be sitting at a table with you too. Hearing the story from you, me driving hundreds of miles to meet you and him in person, and sitting there and hearing him talk about things that as far as I was concerned, shouldn't be happening according to the story that you shared. and then you're just like, well, I'm going to tell you.

Yeah. It was pretty wild to witness on my end of things. Yeah. And something that happened after the interview with you and then the interview with you and him, I don't really know. So, okay, one of our cousins is kind of witchy or something or was. at one point kind of witchy. And she does like reading sometimes for people and stuff like that.

And I knew that my brother had gone to her and my mom to get rid of that mirror that he was terrified of, that he kept seeing stuff in. And so when he was an adult, they did this, they buried the mirror upside down and put some certain wood over it and then other wood on top of that to like seal it shut and all that. So I knew about that happening. And I just hit her up randomly and was like, hey, did my, did my brother ever like come to you about something? I didn't like lead her on with anything. But I was like, did you ever like help him with something or talk to him about like some stuff that he was in?

And then she said, oh, you mean the monkeys. And I was like, what? Yeah. Yeah, but it sounded great. No one knew. No one knew about this, but she did because he went to her at one point because he was desperate. Years after he undid what my buddy fixed for him, he was desperate again to get rid of them. He went to her.

She did some viewing thing into him and saw these monkeys and it freaked her the fuck out. And then she didn't want to interact with him in regards to this anymore. and all of that happened independent of me. I found this out after it had happened. So there's just more confirmation of these things. That's not me. Like I can't make people have done these things. So it's not me.

Like it's real. And it sounds insane, but it's real. So she confirmed that the monkey things existed and my buddy did. And my brother knows that they're a thing because they were terrorizing him whenever he said no. And I didn't make any of that up. This is other people telling me these things. So yeah.

How's it feel? It's still weird and it's really confusing. And I still have times where I feel crazy. but I know through these other confirmations that like I'm not, but it, it's just crazy. And then it's made, it's made worse because I can't get any more information on my own. My buddy basically 100% has ghosted me at this point. He knows about me. You guys talked about this.

Yeah. in the attempt to get his side firsthand. And he's not down for that. So there's this whole, there's this whole world that got dropped on me. The author won't talk to me and hid herself from me, actually. And my buddy won't talk to me. So I don't have a way to learn more on my own about this.

There's not like a library I can go to. I don't have the ability that she does to know things or that he does to just go places. I can't do any of that. So I'm kind of, you know, stuck now. And what he told me about my brother's ability or, yeah, his ability to open things. mine is to keep a very specific thing shut. And I just do that by like existing, I guess. And then after I die, that soul is just going to go into something else to keep it closed as like a continuation thing.

So I'm just kind of here. I'm not supposed to try to go over there, but he said I might. He said I can probably try now. The last time he talked to me, he said that probably nothing bad would happen. if I tried, like, projecting over there now. But for, like, 10 years, he told me, absolutely not. Don't do it ever. You are not supposed to go there.

He also thought that Susan couldn't come here. He's been wrong before. He's been wrong. I would suggest being careful. He was pretty confident, though. So. I'm just saying. Yeah.

Let me say this. You said about the author. And so let me kind of lay this out. I'm going to, I'm going to call her again. Because since I last talked to her, we have uncovered a lot of information through other people's experiences that line up with this. And she might be more inclined to cooperate. Don't shake your head no at me. She might be.

I will say this. Episode 646, I called it taken to other realms, a guy named Colin, very, very similar to Ron. And I told Colin, I said, I have a few. that you're going to have some issues now that you talk to me. And he did. And he doesn't want to talk to me anymore. But he's not the first one either. To go down that road of, you know, cutting me off. Yeah. Well, yeah. Let me say this. The author, you said that she has hid herself from you. and I want to clarify what that means because she didn't hide herself from me.

What happened is when you talked to me years ago about this, I said to you, this is a wild story, and it's one of the rare times that I have such a wild story that has strings that I can pull at because you told me about the book. And I said, I'm going to find this author, and I'm going to talk to her. and you said, you kind of laughed at me, I think, and you kind of said, good luck.

I've been looking for her for years. I can't find her. When we hung up within an hour, I think it was, it had to be around an hour, because I know I text you, we found her, we had emailed her, and you're like, how? Well, when I talked to her, she said, part of her process of fleeing across the country from this, she's a witch, she cast spells for, him and anybody connected to him in this story to not be able to find her. And so, like, she created some kind of spell that made a veil between you and her

that yielded her almost invisible on digitally and things like that. So that is why I was able to find her so fast. And within, I think it was, like, two or three days be on the phone with her. And, like, and talking about this stuff. And so, like, and sure, her story. is even, like, it's way more detail than what you share because she was involved in this. Yeah, that was part, part of her natural ability

is, she's like a conduit for information or whatever. So even if she's not trying to learn something about all of this, she knows it. Like, it's just passed down to her. There's some fucking name that's not scribe, but it's like, I know, it's, it's something like, She's basically a conduit of knowledge that she never wanted or learned on her own. But yeah, I tried through all the periods of time when my buddy just vanished from me,

I tried to find her because I had met her before and I was hoping she would be willing to answer questions for me. And I could not locate her. Not even in person. I just couldn't find anything about her existing anymore. And I knew she was real. She wrote the fucking book I was holding. But I couldn't find her. And then you did in like an hour.

And I'm not that smart. Like I'm not like an internet sleuth guy. And I do want to kind of just hint on this. And these are some of these things, I will be able to, it will be revealed in other recordings that people will be able to hear. We're going to, we're going to create an entire playlist for,

for, uh, my members that anything that I uncover when it comes to this stuff, like all this, um, because I, like, there,

there's a person that I found in South Africa that I told you about. I, I actually got a hold of them. I don't know if I told you that. Uh, you had tried to last I knew, I think. I got through.

Yeah. And he said he'll record with me and, and, and, and talk to me. Um, I don't know what it will yield. It might be just a five minute conversation.

but I want to have a place where I can kind of just collect it all. But your brother, when he was talking to us, he gave me a very specific location that I could go to where he is called to. And that thing appears. Do you remember how he described it? Because I can't. I almost want to say it was like a goat head,

but I don't know if that's accurate. Oh, that thing. Okay, so the way he described this thing, basically he's tried going for years at this point, not doing what ball wants. So in addition to the monkeys, this other thing has showed up outside his house or it'll be in his house or whatever.

And it's like an all black thing, just like a vague body with a bleached horse skull where its face would be. And this thing doesn't touch him, but it gets close sometimes or it'll just hang outside of his house and he can like hear the wind of what sounds like

it breathing through the skull nostrils and shit and he's sure that's just another thing from Ball to try fucking with him enough to make him listen

basically it sounds terrifying and it sounds like Like when he was describing it, it really seemed like it was something that he was actively terrified of. Yeah, that's what it. Like it wasn't like in his ancient history. Like it was like something that was active. Yeah.

Like could have been that day. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the monkeys at this, because the monkeys have been around him for at this point, 10 years, 15, 15 years. Yeah. So those are kind of whatever to him. I think he's found out, found a way to like they can't hurt him now. but this thing is new

and it doesn't ever affect him it's just fucking scary and it'll just be around him sometimes that's it's wild and it those things only go away for a little bit

if he gives in and goes where a ball wants him to go and then they'll leave for a couple months or until he gets told to go somewhere again and says no

So he's still actively saying no, right? Last I knew, yeah. And he's been traveling a bunch, so I don't know how much that affects. I don't know. I don't know if it's something special with where we grew up. I don't think it's only like localized to that spot and can't go anywhere else. But he's on jobs for like a week or two all over the country. So I don't know how active he is at doing whatever.

I wonder if I, yeah, last time I text him was on March 20, or yeah, March 19th, I text him. No, March 17th. I said, how things going, man. And he said, things are going good, out of state work, but doing pretty good. Nothing too crazy. I hope you and your family are doing well. And I said, did you have to move or are you traveling for work?

And he said, just traveling. And that's the extent of it. Yeah. As far as I know, he's been actively trying for a long time to learn other. Magic seems like a corny way of saying it.

But learning ways to protect himself more, like he's been trying to do that. so he might have done it at this point and figured out how to keep him kind of off of him. But his ball is the one who convinced him to get that seal tattooed on him to lock them together. So I guess there's only like a really specific thing, like a series of events he has to do to break that that he hasn't done as far as I'm aware. So it's still around. like they're still tied somehow. And my buddy couldn't break that.

He could only keep like the monkeys off of him. So based on what you said earlier, how you believe, maybe he said it, but at least you believe that ball is a higher ranking than Sujant. if I remember right through like over the span of like all the years he was over there they had started pretty equal and then eventually ball got more powerful if I'm remembering correctly I think that's the course of events would that mean then that your brother would be maybe more higher ranking than Ron I don't think so based only on what anything my brother does isn't intentional. Like he isn't actively doing anything himself to open things. It's just something that happens when he's there.

And it's not everybody can be that aura to unlock something. So it's specific to him. Yeah. But he's not like, I'm going to do this thing. It's not like he's a soldier in the army. Yeah. And my buddy very. very

general very for sure was like actively learning things and doing things that he could do here for a long time yeah

like he could he he could change his body a lot more than I saw well the author the author confirmed that to me as well and his girlfriends confirmed it to me too

yeah outside like when he wasn't around I've asked her before when they were talking to me what made her believe in him. And she told me about a time when they were like hooking up or whatever and he had like a little moment

where he wasn't focused on not changing and he did. And so she's like they were together and she saw him changing like claws and he got bigger and he like fucking wings. And then she was like, oh, well yeah, that's

real then because it just happened to her. And then Yeah, the author has said similar things. So that's what he was at the peak of what he could do. My buddy was very strong. And even after I told him that we had found the author, he was shocked, too. Because he'd been looking for her for his own reasons. They'd had a history together, whatever.

And he couldn't find her. And he can find people. And then he told me, I had told you about like his other. side or whatever, right? Scorp. Well, not just. Scorp was his counterpart over there. That was like his mentor.

And it was, Scorp was who came into his body when he left for my brother. So, yeah, that's all the thing. But on that side, my buddy was very good at what he was

doing. And then he wanted to stop because he grew a conscience. I guess. And so he wanted to stop. So something over there, Sujent or whoever tried making like a version of him. They tried like duplicating him basically.

And it worked. And then that thing could do everything my buddy could do at his peak. But without a conscience, it could kind of just do whatever it wanted. It could just be violent and crazy. and like, fuck everything up. My buddy, a couple years ago, I guess, managed, because he's still able to project and stuff.

He never lost that ability or gave it up so he can do it. And he does it just to check in. He says on people he knows and situation and stuff. His other, his evil twin, I guess, had basically for a while just been, just tearing through where they were and people were getting mad at him thinking it was him and it wasn't my buddy

so he found a way to create this like labyrinth maze prison thing in her head I believe it's her head that trapped that thing in it and then I told him that we had found her. He,

we were like on the phone and he was like, hey, I'll be back. I got to go check on something. And he called me back later. And he was like, kind of sounded different. And he said that the thing had broken out.

So I don't know if it was because I told him that we had found him, that we had found her, but whatever, like, prison he had locked this thing in, he went into, like, the maze he made in her mind or something, and it had broken out. Like, it had just torn it apart and got out. And so, like, the last time I talked to him, he was like, I guess I have to try finding this thing again. And all that happened only after he found out, we had found her, or you had found her. I don't know how that's connected. but he seemed pretty sure that somehow it was connected. And that was the last time I talked to him.

So I don't know. There's a reason why he's ghosting you, man. Like, holy crap, man. Yeah, this is the shit that he does. It's like this world-shattering thing and then, bye. Okay, let me, all right, so let me just get this straight. You're saying, you talk to me, I find her. You tell him, I found her, and his.

response was, I'll be right back because he wanted to check on the evil twin. Yeah. Calls you back and says, it's out. I need to handle this kind of thing. Yeah. And the maze was in her mind? I believe that was the connection that it was. Because, like, yeah, he had set it up in her mind because it was trying to get to her

to, like, interact with her again, pretending to be him or something like that. And so he made this. this like maze thing, if you want to put like an imagination to it to like permanently trap it and then through something got broke that let it just tear

through that and then it was out again. And then he gave me no other fucking details because he won't talk to me anymore. I'm sure you'll talk to him again. Probably not. I'll say that. I've tried. He ain't got to talk.

But yeah, that was the last thing I had known. I'm going to email when this goes out and I'm going to say, hey man, this is what we talked about. I'd like to talk to you if you're still around. Oh yeah. No, he won't respond. I'll tell him it can be off air. He won't respond.

He won't trust any of this. Even like it was a few years ago so after these events that was like all this happened like the summer after or like the year after

high school and then I went away for a few years and I came back and met up with him. He happened to be in town when I was in town and we met up just like at a bar to talk because we were like friends and stuff. And while we were there, he got like a text or something and he was like, hey, I'll be right back. And he walked out of the bar and there was this dude, this like nerdy looking guy like looking through the window at us on the street. And he went out there and then they like had a conversation real quick. And then he came back and was like, hey, don't rush, but do it now.

You got to pay because I'm going to take you back to where I was staying at the time. And I was like, what? What are you talking about? And that was a guy that he knew that was. okay, so my buddy asked this nerdy dude to monitor him, I guess, to see if other people were interested if if either of us came back into town because we had both left the city for a couple years at this point. And that dude alerted him that me and him meeting up in the city drew some kind of attention. and then somebody was trying to get to us in some capacity. So you are kind of involved in this somehow.

You just don't really have a clear picture of it. Yeah. I don't know if I should say the name of what technically I'm connected to specifically. That's supposed to stay shut. Because I don't know if that's a bad thing or not. but whatever that is, theoretically, the last time it opened

was like the black plague of forever ago. That was like the direct what got out. And he seemed pretty sure of that. So, I think, yeah,

he has given me just enough to, like know something's out there, but not details, I think, in a weird way to protect me from it. I don't know. And my brother is connected to this because he opens things. And my buddy is connected because he directly knows all this and has his hands all over it. And so me and him meeting up that night set off alarms somewhere. And so we got in the car because he had.

had picked me up. And we took this like weird ass route through the city like as if we were being followed and he would like subtly look up at the mirror every now and then like see if we, I think, I think he was losing whoever was following, was following us. And we got back to where I was staying at my mom's house because she had moved. And I was like, am I good? Like is this like my family's here? Is this going to be a problem? And he was like, no, I won't be a problem. problem. Just don't come outside for the rest of the night. And he said it like in a chill way, but he was saying it on purpose. Like, like, he's, he's a charismatic dude and he's good at manipulating words and tones and stuff like that. And so he was like subtly just ordering me to just stay inside for that. And it was late. house arrest for the night. Yeah, so I didn't need to be out anyway, but I was like, what the fuck?

And then he was like, he was about to leave and then he came back and then he was like, okay, real quick, if something happens, do this thing. And he showed me like this little hand movement and told me to say this one phrase, and then whatever was there would be gone. What was the phrase? Do you remember? It's like kayak, ka. Oh, wait, hold on.

Stop right there. Stop right there. I don't want to hear it on the show right now. Yeah. So it's like that or something. And it was like a little hen thing. And that was it. And then he was like, do that if you feel weird.

And then he left. And that was it. And then I just didn't see him for a few more years after that. And then I don't think we've, I guess he's come to my house once in the five, six years since then. and that was just like in the day and nothing happened. But yeah. So.

But I guess whatever he had told me or taught me was some like shield thing or something like a like a shield bubble that would like push out whatever was there or something. Yeah. I mean he taught you probably some kind of magic. Like a basic thing. Yeah. Yeah. and yeah so and I've never felt like I needed

to use it and I'm not even totally sure if I remember like the hand movement and stuff so I don't and I've never been in that world I don't I don't know any of that shit and uh but yeah he he told me that so I've been we've been like followed before

I guess when we've linked up before so like that's that's part of why I understand his uh anxiousness with jumping into this in a more public way because it's got real implications because he's got,

like I say, this is real to me and it's real to a bunch of people, so it's real. He is a traumatized guy who's lived a lot longer than his body. So there's a lot of trauma. there that he's out of now. Like now he has a wife and a kid and like a normal shit that he doesn't want to

threaten. So I do get that. And I've, even with my introduction to all this and everything, it's never been direct like I, it's been different experiences. So for me, it's like a tourist learning about something.

And for him, it was a real thing. So I get why he's not. why he doesn't want to bring anything up. Yeah. No, I get it. I mean, like, when he told you about all this stuff, do you remember what year it was? 2014.

Okay, so if it's 2014, first of all, like, my show didn't exist. So, like, the idea of telling you, and then it being on a podcast was not... I don't think podcasts were even a thing. They were. I wasn't listening to anything. But they weren't like they are now. Yeah. Um, Rogan was still, was around in 2014, I think, uh, Sasquatch Chronicles was running just starting. I hadn't heard of a podcast at that point. Yeah, no, they were. I mean, you're talking probably like 200,000 in the world at that point. Really not a lot. Um, but what's interesting is that like in, in the, the grand scheme of time, you came into the scene really fresh on it. Because, uh, in 2012 is when the book,

was published for that short period of time. And it was, from what I understand, written, I think early 20s and she met him in college. So, I mean, you're talking like probably 2010 to 2012 is when her involvement probably was around that. And so you're coming into the picture, not even five years later from the time she met him. Yeah. it was all fresh then and now it's like let's

bury, bury, bury. Yeah, because everybody's adults and has families and shit and like potentially this is like an actual dangerous thing you know so yeah there's like it's not like oh cool

fun story time like there's real consequences to some of this shit. Yeah. Well, I think we should bring this in for a landing. I think unless there's something with the initial Genesis story that you didn't get out that I don't remember, I think we squeezed it hard enough.

Yeah, I don't think I missed anything. Not that I can think of. Okay. So let's bring this in for a landing, and then we'll reconvene in the morning. and do this again for a detailed look into, we're going to talk about this more details and discuss it more, but also talk about other people and how they might be tied into this as well, maybe some stories that I've uncovered and things like that,

because when you told me this story, never, ever did I imagine I'd ever talk to another person who had had anything remotely close to what you shared with me. And that's not true. Yeah. Yeah, that's why I didn't want to bring it up because it sounds so fucking crazy. But like it takes one person to open the box and everybody else is like, okay, since somebody else is talking about it. Yeah. You know, and there, I mean, this is taking me down. I mean, if people are listening right now, if you're new, welcome. But if you've been around for a while, you've heard how I talk about things and how that's changed over time. What you just heard is like a huge reason why I talk the way I talk. And the way

I say it, I know comes across like, well, how do you know, bro? Well, I've talked to some people who've convinced me. This stuff is real. And I think I even said to you on the way over to the studio here, like you have the dream realm. And I forget who told me this. It was recent, though. You have the dream realm, the next level from that is lucid dreaming. And a lot of people have, not everybody, but I don't have lucid dreams, but a lot of people have lucid dreams. And the lucid dream from what I understand generally is it's very real. It feels very real. But there are little tiny things off that make you aware in the lucid dream that you're dreaming. But you continue to dream in this state of knowing you're dreaming, but remaining where you're at.

Yeah, like I can do that. I can't get, I haven't been able to get to the next point. Right. The next level is moving past the lucid dream state into literally another state of existence in, for lack of better terms, the other realm or another realm, because I think there might be more than one. But it's like you move into and now all of a sudden you're now operating in another state of existence. you're not dreaming, you're not sleeping, you've pierced that veil, and now you're in that other spot. And it sounds like some people, like Ron, got so good at it that you could just skip the whole sleep process and just, you know. Yeah. I mean, well, that was, that was what he did when he, when he changed in front of me. That was a squirp that showed up? Yeah. So when, and people who listen, we barely, we didn't even touch squirt because it just, it didn't really come up much, but... He was like his best friend, mentor on the other side,

and also they, like, could share a body. Right. So, like, if, if Ron went to the other side, he had to have Scorp come and replace him here, right? Or was that... What, does she tell me that? As far as I knew, Scorp only needed to do that if he was in certain circumstances. Because, like, if it was just, like, in the span of...

of like a night when he was asleep, he didn't need to be awake here. But if he was consciously changing like he did to help my brother, something had to take his body because he wasn't sleeping. So that was Scorp for him. But Scorp isn't the evil twin? No. The evil twin is like a clone of Ron. that basically

I think Sujin had a hand in it or he was mad that my buddies quit basically and didn't want to lose that force

in his arsenal so he made this thing and then this thing doesn't care about morals like my buddy does and then it's just doing whatever

wow wow well I don't know. I hope people feel like they finally got to hear the story. It's been a long time coming. And there's just been, to be honest with you, we're going to wind this down because it's almost 1 o'clock in the morning. I got to get you back to the hotel so we can get to sleep because we have to be back here in the morning because you have to fly out tomorrow. But just so people understand, like, I really held out hope for a long time that I could talk to Ron. I didn't want to release this story because I was like, I don't, like, no offense to you, but I didn't want you telling the world of the story. I wanted Ron to tell the story. Well, a bunch of, yeah, because I only have like a small part of firsthand. My ideal situation was that you were going to talk to Ron, which you did. He became aware of me, which he did.

And then he said, all right, let's do this and let's talk. And I was holding out hope. And the fact that he has ghosted you so long, I'm like, okay, we just need to do it. But now it's been so long. We have to record this on good microphones compared to what we used to have because tech changed. And so that's why it took so long. There's some other things. But the main thing was that I was really hoping that I could get Ron. And it doesn't seem like that. But you keep shaking your head, no at me. I still hold. Like, listen, he's... Not happening. Listen. Listen. All I need is for him to have just a moment of sense of what if wonder adventure in him again.

Yeah, he ain't going to get that. I just need to talk to the guy. I'm telling you. Maybe it'll be a deathbed thing like, you know, 80 years from now. Just give him my number. Does he have my number? I think I sent it to him. He was very clear that he wasn't going to talk to you.

He doesn't talk to me now. So, yeah, he's not. He won't be contributing to this. And his friends won't. And the other people won't. So unless they're totally not connected to him, they're not going to help. Let me ask you a question. Just hypothetically.

his other friends like say the guy who turns into a werewolf if somehow I happen to come across him and ask some questions

he wouldn't respond and he would tell Ron well what's wrong going to do he would just Ron would then know that you're going to his friends and then they are all going to ghost you

if they wouldn't and you're not going to talk don't do any of them. It's not happening. It's real. It's real shit to them. So they're not going to talk. But like, that's why I want to talk to them. Yeah. Yeah. But that's the reason they won't is it's because they can't think they're the supernatural journalist. Yeah. That's just not going to talk to you. Well, I don't agree with that. Okay. I think there's a chance. I have to believe that. So your brother talked to me. Yeah, he's not them though Even he like with all of his experiences

It wasn't the All the shit that they went through So there's a lot of Trauma with them Yeah Yeah there is Well I get it

I mean I've had the phone hung up on me About this stuff before You know I've been ghosted about this before With other people It is a sense of a topic and so but I got to do my job

and I got to try to get the story and talk about it so I'll probably reach out to Ron again just to see but you know

like you said he'll probably ghost me so he has so far maybe I'll have some magic words this time but anyways dude listen I do appreciate you coming down and I keep back in like

this is the end but we have a whole other recording to do tomorrow. So let's just wrap it up and reconvene. Yeah, let's do it. All right, cool. So for the overtime, we will hopefully have my wife in studio if the kids are cooperating in the morning. And we're going to dive into different people aspects, some things that you talked about that matched some other things that I've heard, including people from your area that have had relationships with werewolf people that I got hammered for that interview.

Okay? Like your story and the things that I know about it are what validate that man's story. As crazy as his story sounds, I don't know what Twilight is. I mean, I know of it. I've never watched it, never read the books. And I called him. I talked to him about it. I said people are telling me you lied to me and that you created this, this, this,

this twilight story mixed with from where we're vampires i guess to wherewolves and he agreed that it sounds like that but he couldn't take back what he said and i told him i know what you told me before you knew who i was and i knew what you told me was true because of what i knew and i said just tell me you're lying though and i'll just replace the episode and i'll just it's not a big deal i'm not mad you know even though i would have been mad uh but he's like i can't take it back and i was like okay then I'm just going to take a beating publicly. And that's what I did for that episode. And, you know, people hated it.

But I can't get around some of the things he said. I understand the way he told the story was a little weird and off. It's seemingly. But some of the details, I was like, you shouldn't know that. You just shouldn't know that. So we'll get into it tomorrow. Hopefully, Lindsay will be here to really shed light on some of those details because she has done a lot of research into it.

but let's get out of here.