The Confessionals - 708: Hidden History Of Dogman

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

In episode 708: Hidden History Of Dogman, Seth Vanderbrooke from episode 652: Ancient Dogmen, hopes to answer the question: What if ancient maps, forgotten myths, and obscure manuscripts are more than just relics of history? Seth shares that Dogmen, creatures with canine heads and human bodies, are documented across centuries and continents. From biblical passages to obscure Latin texts, he dives deep into the evidence that points to the possibility of their existence. Along the way, Seth shares jaw-dropping insights about Nephilim bloodlines, supernatural encounters, and how ancient narratives connect with the modern paranormal. Are Dogmen historical fact or elaborate fable?Seth Vanderbrooke:  https://www.projecteleazar.com/Hurricane Helene Relief Efforts List: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/helene-reliefSasquatch and The Missing Man: merkelfilms.comMerkel Media Apparel: merkmerch.comThe Confessionals Members App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZBecome a member for AD FREE listening and EXTRA shows: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinAFFILIATESGo Silent with SLNT Faraday Bags: https://alnk.to/clXuRY5EMP Shield: empshield.com Coupon Code: "tony" for $50 off every item you purchase!SPONSORSSIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsUNCOMMON GOODS: uncommongoods.com/tonyCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] to the Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/the-newsletterMAILING ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/theconfessionals/Discord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelProduced by: @jack_theproducerOUTRO MUSICJoel Thomas - Plato’s CaveYouTube | Apple | Spotify

Merkel Media This was all circulating around the base that a giant had been killed but no one was supposed to talk about it I saw three long, bony fingers reach up underneath the door curl up to grab it and then disappear

When he came over to me Dude he slithered over to me And this giant comes out of the cave And they're all frozen And he starts running and firing up this giant. With a giant move, he's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast. It spears, Dan, holds him up like this.

Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face. They basically decapitated. And I look over, and there are two small, getting pulled off the best bush, and it couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. Welcome to the show, everybody, listening to the Confessionals podcast. I'm your host, Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here. If you have a crazy wild experience, you want to share.

with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is contact at the confessionalspodcast.com. That's contact at the confessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, the confessionalspodcast.com. Hit the contact section and you can reach me that way as well. Either it works for me, just get a hold of me. If you want more shows on a week of basis, we have you covered. Become a member to the confessionalspodcast.com or on YouTube. Both places are two different landing spots for memberships, but they all offer the same content for your convenience. Also check out Merklefilms.com for all your on-demand streaming needs. We have you covered right there with our documentaries. More documentaries come from different creators. We are expanding the website and we're

very much looking forward to that. Also check out Merkmerch.com for all your Merckel Media Apparel. We launched our own apparel line. I'd say about eight months ago and it's been great. People have been loving it and we're working on some new designs right now. So stay tuned for that at Merckmerch.com. All right, friends, today we have Seth coming on the show. He came in studio to talk about ancient historical dog man. He has been mapping out historical documents that state seeing dog-headed human-like people. These are historians that talk about this to ancient explorers, all coming and saying, yes, we have encountered or we've heard stories of these dog-headed people in faraway lands. He has uncovered tons of documented evidence, and he comes on today to

talk about it all. Let's get Seth on right now. When I went to Utah, September, I did a dogman talk. All right? So they reached out to me and they wanted me to speak and we arranged it all. But in the beginning of it, I said to them, I'm not sure if I'm your guy for this, though. Like I was like, I'm not sure you want me talking at Phnomicon. And I said, I'm really weird. And they're like, no, that's perfect. I'm like, okay. And so I was, I was, I, I, I, I, I, I, They said they didn't care what I talked about as long as he's on topical paranormal-ish. And I was like, well, I definitely don't want to talk about ghosts or like anything that those guys are going to be speaking on anyways. And I knew Skimwalker Ranch is right there and all that.

So I figured Dogman might be a good blend into that. I had no idea that nobody ever, F and Amicon talked about Dog Me before. And so, yeah, yeah. And so like, I get up there and they give me. 90 minutes and usually it's like 60 minutes and they're pushing you off the stage at 50 and like they give you 90 minutes and I I go up there and I open up the the whole talk with a historical dogman and and and so like I went into the historical figures that talked about these things right and I used your website a lot in fact all my slides had your website right there up on

the corner. I think I sent you pictures of that to show you, yeah. But I do that talk where I opened up with historical dog man, then I go into manufactured dog man, and then I go into metaphysical dog man. And I kind of, I just kind of like migrated

through to topics pretty smoothly. To the point that I actually had a rush at the end to get my talk done, which was crazy that I didn't have enough time with 90 minutes. Yeah, I know the feeling though, yeah. but I was like, I think I even said in the beginning of the conversation or the talk that I said, you know, this first part is historical dog man. I'm not sure how much you guys are actually going to be

into this part, but I find it interesting. So I'm going to talk about it. And I can't tell you how many people came up to me afterwards saying the most fascinating part about the talk was historical dog man. Let's go. And like they were like it changed. They're, they're, they're, their paradigm. Because they thought that this idea of dog man or werewolves or lichen is all just fairy tale talk. It wasn't based in reality, especially for this group of people that were more focused on aliens and haunting type stuff. I don't know how much they put into the cryptid world. So maybe Bigfoot might be something like, okay, we have guerrillas, sure, but an upright walking dog's kind of crazy. And I agree. It's crazy.

But it's real. And when I kind of laid that stuff out, and I actually read quotes from some of the historians and all that stuff, like, they said that was the most impressive part of the talk. And I was like, so you're telling me like dog man on military bases, snatching soldiers into bushes isn't interesting? I'm like, that's my favorite part, you know? Like, how can we hunt these things down when they're interdimensional, you know? And they're like, no, historical. Yeah. So I owe that, I guess the main attraction part of that talk to you because it wasn't until

after I had you on the show. I forget what episode number that was. Maybe Jack can look it up. I think it was 652. 6.52? Yeah. Yeah. It sounds about right, sure.

I looked it up the other day. But I think I just called it historical dog man or something like that. And we put it up for the members. And they loved it too. Like, I was like, I got to have them back in studio. and we were already planning on it. But the first one wasn't in studio. Now you're here in studio.

And so I want to kind of unleash more. Because I think when we just did that conversation, you told me you're like, there's so much more. I'm like, how? Like, how is that even possible? And you're like thousands of documents. I'm like, what? Did you ever find another person to start interpreting the Latin?

Because you said that the previous guy. I texted you about that. No, I haven't yet. Because, yeah, I had a professor and some students who were helping me translate some of the texts. And they did. But then, like, you know, student graduates. I've got crazy for the professor. So they haven't been able to help me out recently.

So, yeah, I reached out and was like, you know anybody who can translate Latin stuff? I would actually translate Latin stuff about Dogman. Yeah. And no, I haven't found anybody yet. So I'm still looking. Is that guy still on the table still? Is he kind of too busy right now? Like maybe, but not for a little while.

And so before we go too much further, because I actually want to talk to you about this, how that relationship starts, and what does that professor think of all this stuff? But why don't you tell people listening who you are and where they can find the content and information we're going to be talking about today because you have a whole website that's dedicated to this stuff?

Sure thing. Yeah. So my name is Seth Vanderbrook. I am a biblical and historical researcher. Last time we talked, my full-time profession was actually cybersecurity and software engineering, but my full-time job is now actually studying the Bible and answering Bible questions. For real? I kid you not. How'd you learn that? It was totally the Lord, man.

It was literally the church that I go to reached out. And out of nowhere was like, hey, so we get hundreds of Bible questions a month that we can't keep up with all of them. And we need a full-time position. and everybody thought that you might make sense for that role. What do you think? And I was like, what? My mind was absolutely blown. Wow.

So I now do that full time. So I study the Bible. Other things that might come up where people have questions that are related to the Bible, whether they're like, hey, what about this? Like, I hear conspiracy theory stuff, and they're like, what about this? And what about that? And flat earth and this and that. Really?

And so I'm like researching and replying. I'm like, well, yeah, this person claimed that and that person claimed that, but that's not the case. So I love it. It's literally my opinion. favorite thing ever. Yeah, like your job is to study the Bible. It's a dream job for me. Dream job. You would to host my show, take over the show, and I'll do your job. Like, that sounds awesome, dude. Yeah, no. I absolutely love it. So, yeah, I literally spend all day answering Bible questions one after

another. A lot of them are really wild and some of them are people reaching out kind of challenging. Like, well, you should change your mind. You guys should teach this. And so a lot of it kind of becomes his scholarly debate kind of stuff, which again, I actually really enjoy. And then a little bit on the side is actually we have a school, a middle school and high school where we, you know, it's Christian private school. And so I'm the substitute Bible teacher there. So I'll fill in for the teachers that are teaching Bible. And there's a little bit of history stuff that I've jumped in for as well. So I absolutely love it. It is the best. Where, did you go to school for this? Or was it just like the church you go to respects your intellect when it comes to the Bible and your your passion?

It's the latter. I, I didn't go to school for the Bible. I didn't, I didn't even finish. my degree because I went straight into programming because I had been doing it all growing up. You know, worked for the government at all sorts of stuff. So I just didn't need that degree. So I don't even have a degree. And people have brought that up when I'm like, I'm teaching at the school. And teachers are like, oh, well, that's great. Like, you must have, you know, an MDIV or whatever.

And I'm like, no. Like, I just read a lot of stuff. I read the Bible like crazy. And I read all sorts of historical documents from the Greeks, Mesopotamians, the Egyptians. and the Jews, and it just kind of works out. So it's honestly, it's really encouraging because ultimately, like, I don't have any credentials, right? But it's a calling. It's not, you know, God doesn't call the equipped, he equips the called.

And so that's what happened. Like, he called me, and that's the only explanation I can give people. It's like, well, I read stuff. He gives me the answers, and I give the answers to other people. So. You're just the middleman. I'm just the middleman. Yeah.

Like, I didn't write the book. I'm just telling you what the book says, right? Yeah. Well, that's cool, man. And I agree. I don't think you need a Bible degree to teach the Bible, to answer questions about the Bible. The Bible should be the main resource anyways for most people. So really all you have to do is like, hey, I have a question. Da, da, da, da, da. And you're like, actually, first Timothy. Yeah.

Verse two in chapter five. Is there five chapters? I think there's five chapters. I think there's five chapters. But it's just like, you know, that's what it is. Yeah. Yeah, it's plain simple. But yeah. So, you know, back to why you wouldn't have care at all what I have to say. So, yeah, so I studied the Bible and I researched it in the last several years. I've been researching. Just been curious. Went down the whole rabbit trail of, you know, what are the Nephilim?

I mean, I grew up curious about it. My mother was actually raised Roman Catholic. And so I was curious about that. When I asked about it, she was like, oh, yeah, well, there are actually these other apocryphal texts and other things to talk about it more. But the Bible just mentions it briefly. And I was like, well, that's interesting. And so I grew up with a lot of curiosity. And when I started digging into the Nephilim,

that's what just kind of sent me off that crazy rabbit trail. And then I started reading a lot of stuff by like Michael Heiser and Dr. Tim Mackie and Ryan Peterson and all those, a lot of that stuff coming out more recently, at least in the last like five or seven years. And then that sent me down all those rabbit trails. I was like, okay, wait a minute. Well, I have these skills where I can, I already know how to study things and look at the primary sources, look at those original languages,

and get answers from people who know what they're talking about. And so I just started digging into it, and I was fascinated by this crazy statement that angels were able to come down and have children with humans. And what happens after that? Like, crazy stuff happens after that. And so I read Enoch, read tons of apocryphal texts to see, like, okay, what are they claiming? What does it say?

Yeah. And I always clarify with people, like, look, I don't think that First Enoch and Jubilee and Josh and these other things are actually God's holy inspired word. I don't consider that near it where I don't think that's perfect. And for people who aren't Christians in general, I still tell them, no, I don't think, because I've been accused of this

a lot, like, oh, well, you're the type of person that just believes that if it's written down is true. Like, no, I really don't. I'm super skeptical. Contrary to maybe popular belief. Especially after today. Yeah, especially after day. I'm super skeptical person. I want to see a lot of evidence before I consider something being possible.

That's why even with, you know, dogmen, even with all of the research and evidence that I found, I still, I'm an open-minded person. So I say, hey, I have a lot of evidence that tells me that it's probable that they exist. You know, all the stories that you hear that are on your podcast, I've enjoyed listening to a lot of the stories that people have told. Like, I've encountered this. And I believe them. So I'm like, I look at that and I go, look, I think there's high likelihood that there's a thing that it's been a thing for thousands of years. But I'm always open to being proven wrong. You know, it could be that we die, go to heaven and find out that, you know what?

It's actually, demons can do a lot more in terms of hallucination than we thought. It can feel physical, look physical. Like, I don't know. But as far as I can tell, things point in a very certain direction. And so I'm able to hold things loosely, but also I'm like, I do want to see evidence, you know. And so I'm reading those passages. I'm reading all those things. And I start coming across these concepts of, hey, there's more than just tall giants.

And that's where I started talking to a lot of people. They're asking a lot of questions. That's what made me start my blog, which is the answer to the question you were previously, which was, you know, where can you get more content? Hopefully Jack has already put it up on screen somewhere. Yeah, I know. We're already like, what, 10 minutes into it wherever. That was fine.

Yeah, so project leazar.com is my blog. I put a lot of stuff up there. The thing that I believe in because of what I've just said is that, you know, it bothers me when I read things, not just listen to podcasts, that as well, but when I read things or talk to people, and they're like, oh, well, we know this is true because of stuff. And I'm like, where's the stuff?

Like, where's the proof? Where's the, I want to see it. Like, I want to read it. I would like to read those things. A lot of times they don't give you those sources. They don't give you the citation. So my blog is very focused on, I'm going to give you links to stuff.

I'm going to give you the exact citations. I'm going to tell you where you can find these things because that's what I want. I don't want someone to just tell me that this is a thing. I want to see the proof. I want to see the evidence. I want to see the stuff. sources. So that's what my blog is all about. It's mostly focused on the Bible, but in general, it's just a lot of what I find interesting. What is mysterious in history? What are things that

come up that just kind of go against the general paradigm that the modern American has? Because I've continued to be challenged on my beliefs as I read things and I connect dots and I go, okay, well, we have methods for deciding that something is probably true. Right. And those methods, we use across the board. But a lot of times when we're looking at things that are strange, like Dogman or like, you know, ghosts or giants, people disregard those standardized methods. Like with the Bible, we have, you know,

we refer to as hermeneutics. And it's, there's a process. It's like set in stone. It's very logical. It's all about this is how you approach any literature, really. Like, it applies to a lot more than the Bible, but, you know, that's just the word that we use in that realm. when you use hermoneics, like, there are rules.

And I say it's all the time to people who are like, well, we can't really know. I'm like, no, we can. Like, there are rules. There's methods. There are things that we can use to have certainty about what scripture means. And we can use the same rules for all this other literature. And we can connect the dots. We can do the research and we can find out what's actually going on.

So that's what I try to do with the blog, connect the dots, show you a whole bunch of different, you know, here's what the Bible says. Also, here's what all these other texts say. Here's what these Jewish texts point out. what ancient Jewish scholars say and here's what Plato said. And let's connect these dots and see what's actually going on here because there's more than meets the eye with all these topics. Totally way more. And I think that we're in, we might be in a golden age right now where moving forward in the timeline, I think maybe people are going to be more open to hearing some of this stuff. And, you know, stuff that goes against their upbringing or what their traditional

thought process was on certain things. You know, when I was growing up, probably even the idea of ghosts was kind of ridiculous, you know? And now it's like, oh, no, people are definitely experiencing things. Like, that's tangible, real stuff going on, you know? It used to be, you sit there at home in a living room when I was a kid and you're catching some kind of TV show and it's like mysterious show and this person says that they had a ghost in their house like, whoa, that's kind of crazy. Probably not true, but crazy. And now it's like, of course. Why would we even make a TV show about that? Like that's the main attraction. It's so much crazier. So I think we're in a point where things are going to start snowballing in the right direction for people like you

and myself. So before we get into this stuff, though, let's bring it back to how this professor got involved with you because, you know, you do your own study, you do a lot of reading, but you also have the aid of somebody who actually can read Latin and some languages that you can't to help you discern what's being said. Right. So, yeah, honestly, it's not a long story. It's really just, I reached out and was like, I talked to a couple friends.

who I knew some Latin and was like hey like I'm working on this project didn't really get into the details I was just like yeah I'm reading some old text like you know would you be able to help me out with this and they're like no but

but our professor like he's great like you know had him years ago you should reach out so I reached out to him and it was actually at a college where I worked on that campus the smaller Christian college and but it was for a different it wasn't for the college that I

I worked for this nonprofit Christian organization. And so I reached out and just sent an email. I was like, hey, I'm reading these texts. It's kind of some crazy topics. I've reached out to the Library of Congress. They're telling me there's no English translation of this stuff. Like, can you help me out? And he was just like, sure.

He just took it. And I was like, yeah, I'd love to help you out. That looks really interesting. I didn't get it. What I didn't do is I wasn't like, hey, can you help me study dog man? I didn't say it. You let him connect the dots. I'm noticing that everything you send me has something to do with dog-headed people.

Yeah, it's true. What are we doing here? Exactly. It was like, well, this chapter, I mean, they would talk about a lot of stuff, right? So it was like, oh, yeah, Egyptian stuff. And look at all these monstrous races, because we talked about that last time. I was like, talking about giants and it's talking about, you know, the headless people and all these different concepts and the dogmen are just in there. So I don't know.

He may not even fully know. I've just been feeding him texts and being like, hey, can you help me trans like this? So, I mean, it's been great. It's been really useful. But, you know, things are crazy as a professor, and I totally get that. And he's lost some of his better students because they've graduated. So, but he did say he's still down to help. It's just that right now it's not working out.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. So if you know how to translate Latin, specifically ancient Latin, and you want to help out, I would really appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. Contact.

There's probably a good chance at somebody. listening right now does know how to do that. Project DeLiazar at proton.me. There you go. Unhack. I like there. You like encryption. Oh yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what we run our email through too. Oh, really? Yeah, proton mail. So like when people email, contact at the confessionalspodcast.com, they're emailing to the proton server. Gotcha.

So yeah, you have the domain, but it's, you know, with Proton. Yeah. I love Proton. Good choice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I still get people emailing.

You know that CERN created Proton. I know. I know. Nothing's safe. We can't enjoy life. Nothing to make a smile. You know? I don't know what else to do. Like,

is Google the best option then? No. But what do I do? Well, there's just one obscure one that I found on the dark web you should start using. No, I won't. Yeah.

The security professionals who are really into it, like you should host everything yourself, run your own internet. Yeah. Have everything locked down. I'm like, yeah, that's expensive. rent a basement in a commercial building, put all your servers in there, run it all yourself.

It's going to only cost you about $50,000 a month, but it's secure. Yeah, exactly. But I say that, I'm like, I was totally that kind of person. I didn't go that far. I didn't go that far, but that was my industry. Well, I thought about it back in like, I don't know, 20, 20 around that era when things were going real berserk. I was looking into how can I run my own servers so that I can't be taken off the internet? and I got about as far as a cup of coffee on it.

I was like, I'm done. It gets complicated. Yeah, I was like, I can't figure this out. And it seems pretty expensive. So, comcast it is, you know. Comcast, it is. All right, let's get into it, man. Where are we going?

That's kind of like the foundation of how you got into all this stuff. But where are we going to go from here now? Yeah, so I kind of wanted to start by thanking your community, because we did a members-only episode and you guys are awesome. A lot of you guys reached out. I was surprised. A lot of you reached out to my Instagram

and my blog and email and were like, hey, you're doing great stuff, keep it up, I appreciate it. And all of you are like, have you read this? Have you looked into this? What about that? Have you looked into this? And I'm like, actually yes, actually yes, actually yes.

And I know a few people were upset that I didn't talk about St. Christopher were actually not going to talk about St. Christopher. sorry. Let's just do the 1,000 foot overview for people. St. Christopher was a dog man, okay? Yeah.

Like, from what I understand, I looked into it, and correct me if I'm wrong, a thousand foot overview. The suggestion is that he comes from a tribe of sinus cellocephaly.

Sinocephali. You got it. And I guess he converted to Christianity. And that's why, in these ancient depictions, a lot of them have dog-headed St. Christopher. It'll show him ducking. Yeah.

There are tons of... The reason why I don't want to get into it is because it's one of the more confusing ones. Is it really? Yeah, there's so many versions of the story. Interesting. It's kind of like Cinderella, how it just branches out. And you have so many versions, or like, you know, King Arthur. It gets really confusing because you have so many different versions where it's like,

he wasn't really dog-headed. He was. He was. He was a giant. He was a giant. Like, there's so many variations of the story. you can get lost in the weeds. And eventually it's just not entertaining. It's kind of boring. So that's where I'm like, I don't really know that it'd be worth going into that.

But it seems that the older stories referred to him as being a Canaanite giant, dog-headed person that got saved and then was witnessing both his type of people and others, supposedly. Supposedly. It's so far back. It's like, how do you know? I don't know.

How do you know? But so many stories it gets, confusing. So I'm sorry to all of you who really want to talk about. But the good news is if they know about St. Christopher and they're so interested in St. Christopher, and you're saying that's actually one of the more confusing ones, we're in for a fun ride then. It's true. Yes. Yeah. Hopefully you'll find this fun ride. I'm going to go over some of the more, I don't know if eye catching is the right word, but some of the ones that really stand out because some of the names that people will recognize more easily.

So I think it's going to be a fun one. Cool. So last time we covered stuff like we talked about Herodotus, Ategis, ancient Hittite cuneiform tablets. We talked about hieroglyphics of Heropolo, St. Augustine. We talked about the Peri-Rees map. We actually led with that map. So what I'd like to do is start with map again. Sweet.

Because there are plenty of maps. I love it. So let's start with another map. I kind of like this story because there's a little bit more of a story that you goes along with this map. But Martin Valdsenmuller, that's a fun last name. Almost as fun as yours.

Vandabriff is pretty, yeah, Vandervich is pretty wild. So Martin Vanselmuller, sorry, Valdsumuler, 16th century, which is the same century as the Perry-Rese map that we talked about last time.

He is actually the cartographer that in 1507 put out the first map that showed America, labeling it America. And he said that he was basing it off of America, Amerigo Vespucci, made all those connections. It was a big deal.

It was a big map, big part of history, right? Well, 10-ish years later, he comes out with another map that according to his own words, was like a lot more accurate. And he like basically nerded out, did a whole lot of historical research, and corrected it and said, no, it's not America named after America Vesbucci.

He's still called it in America, but he actually attributed it to not, Amerigo being the first guy to discover it, but Christopher Columbus, which now we know there people before that, and then we learned about people before that, so whatever. But, you know, and if you're really going down the rabbit trail, of course, people like us are like,

duh, the Phoenician giants were there way before anybody. But anyway, so he updated it and said, hey, this is way more accurate map. In this map, you can look it up, like it's on Wikipedia, Now, I will say, if you really want to see, like, the pictures that have a dog man, it's better to go to the Library of Congress. They have, like, high-quality images of all the different sections of it, because it's a big map. You had to, like, piece it together because it was huge. Really?

Yeah. Yeah. So I forget how many sections there. It's, like, over 12. But so a whole bunch of sections. And in one of them, in this region of northern India, unsurprisingly to people like us, there are dogmen. Of course, before I would have been like, what am I looking at? And I told you, that's how I got into it in the first place was I was looking at maps. And I was like, why are these dog-headed people here? Like, what is going on? And that set me down this whole rabbit trail or dog trail, if you will. Okay, so with that, what was the genesis for you then getting into this topic? Was it seeing that stuff? Or was it being aware of these legends and then looking into it?

It was maps. Wow. It was, I think of my blog, I even said, like, on a summary day. I remember it was like a summer day. I bought a couple of old maps because I'm that kind of nerd. And it was so excited. I was like, they came in the mail. Oh, you know, opened up my maps, started looking at them.

And then I'm like, wait, this is really weird. What's going on here? Like, why do I, why am I seeing dog-headed people in South America? Like, what is this? So that's the thing that introduced me the concept. I hadn't really heard of it before. I mean, like, I think I had roughly heard of people in modern days. Like, oh, you know, Michigan dog, man.

But I had only heard the term. Never looked into it. Never thought anything about it. It's like, okay, those people are crazy. Yeah. Sorry, everybody. I don't think that anymore. But, you know, I was like everybody else.

I thought all this stuff was nuts, right? It took a lot of time looking into the stuff to see that there's even anything to it. But, yeah, it was the maps. I got the perry-wis map. That was the first one I thought I looked at and was like, what is this? Looked at more maps. more depictions of these synecophily. And I was like,

what's a sinusaphyly? So, looked into it as like, oh, that's a Latinization of the Greek word and the Greeks you're talking about. Whoa. And then I just, it was wild because I found all these documents and all these writings. And I was like, how is there this much? Because, you know, this is repeating

a little bit from last time, but I'm like, you look into like Bigfoot, you're finding some old stuff. You're looking into, you know, unicorns. You actually find a lot of stuff on unicorns. But looking to random different things in past like mythical creatures, you'll be like, oh, there's actually some written stuff about this. You come across the dog-headed people or the sinus cephali, and you will find such an overwhelming amount of stuff.

Now, to be fair, maybe half of that stuff is actually like easily, readily available, or maybe a little bit less. But a lot of it, to be fair, you do have to dig even deeper for. And that's where I've been the last year or so is finding those. harder to find sources. But you can easily get Jumpstart and find a whole lot of stuff. And you'll run across blogs or people like, oh, yeah, this and that. Now, a lot of those Reddit pages or blogs won't actually tell you the exact sources

or point you to those things. Some of them do. And proud of those guys. But a lot of them don't. And so it's funny because you could tell you, well, all you did is you put it on your blog, same thing. And that is true. But it wasn't really me trying

I wasn't trying I wasn't going out like oh I'm going to go study dog man I'm going to find a much of resources I'm going to put stuff out there It wasn't that at all It just kind of accidentally happened It came across it And then I basically

A friend of mine was a pastor He this was lovingly He was like You're so stupid Why are you spending all your time Like researching dog head I'm like my best friend And I'm like

And we were just busting up And I was like no I was like the thing is I can't sleep at night Because it doesn't make any sense. I can't reconcile this with reality. But I'm like, I know hermeneutics, I know stuff from

anthropology and history, because I'm a total nerd. I look into that stuff and I talk to professors and I learn how you're supposed to study this stuff. And by all accounts like this, you know, if you're just following those rules, this should be real. But that goes against everything that I've been educated on, right?

And so I was like, I couldn't sleep at night because I couldn't reconcile these things. So I just kept researching it. So that's really what got me into it and how I kept digging into it. So side tangent. That's wild. So anyways. I love it. So back to Martin Valdson Mueller. So he made this map. So 1507, he comes out with that map with America. Then in 1516, he comes out with this new map called the Cardamarina. And sorry, getting a call from my best friend. And in this, this map, it's in the, it's in northern India in the mountains, which lines up with a lot of the people

we already talked about in the last episode that we're talking about these synecophily, these dog-headed race of people living in northern India in the mountains. So when you, when you look at the map, it is pretty wild. Like it's not, it's not like, oh, it could be something else. It's like, no, these are definitely dog-headed people. And then you read the inscriptions and it says flat out. Like, yeah, these are dog-headed, monstrous people that live in this region. And when you look into the story of it, you know, he does tell us a couple of the sources that he used. And one of them is this guy named John of Plano, Carpini. I always go to say Capriani. That is Carpini. and he wrote stuff in 13 AD.

It's again, John of Plano Carpini from 1380. He wrote, it's called the Mongol Mission. You can get this on like the archive.org, the internet archive. The book is available there. And in this, he said this. And this is a little, we're going to start with something a little weird. I say that a little weird.

place. Yeah. We started something a little weird because I was taking a little about, I was trying to

get it back in my head. Because these guys, as we're out to read, are a little different from the rest of the

races that we read about. And it has to do with their feet. So here's a quote from the Mongol mission by

John of Plano. It says, pressing on the Tartars reached a land bordering on the ocean. Where they

came across monsters who we were told, for a fact, had human shape in every respect except that the extremities of their feet were like the hooves of oxen. And although they had human heads, they had the faces of dogs.

They would speak two words like human beings, and the third, they would bark like a dog. So he's just trying to say it like, they talk a little bit with human language and then they'd bark like a dog. And they broke into barking in this way at intervals. However, they always came back to the matter at hand

so it was possible to understand what they were talking about. It's wild. That's wild. Yeah. From there, the Tartis returned to Comania. Yeah, Comania, and some of them even stayed there until now. So this is a brief mention. A lot of the stuff that we read about the dogged people

is actually more believable than this. This part's a little weird because it's like the more consistent narrative is that a lot of these dog-headed people can't actually talk in human languages. And that's part of the whole discussion for centuries is like, well, they can't talk, so there must be animals. Like, well, to be fair, okay, to be fair, it's not that they say they can't talk, to their speech is not human speech. So, like, a lot of them say that they speak by barking and that they have their own, like, dog language that they can't understand.

And then others say that they use sign language to communicate or both. This is one of the few, and there are a couple others, but this is one of the few where he claims that they could actually kind of talk in this discernible manner in a language that was close enough to something they could understand. There are more writings that discuss these wars against the Tartars and these dog-headed people. And this is why Martin put them exactly where he did on the map because there were these writings about the Tartars

who basically at the time was more or less what we now refer to as Mongols that had gone that far into Asia. They'd taken over a lot. So they're in that region of Tataria and they're pushing back against the dog-headed people and they're at these wars and they're fighting over land as everybody does. And basically the dog-headed people end up in that region. So that's what he's basing his sources off of. Is that totally historically accurate? I have no idea. But that's what he did. And that's what he, you know, those are the sources he was saying he was using. There were a couple others that we won't get into.

But it's a wild map. It's really fun to look at because what he depicts and if you pay attention to the different depictions of the synencephaly, some of them have their miles closed and some of them have their mouths open. In this case, it shows in two different regions. Dog-headed people with their mouths

open and their tongue wobbling. That's supposed to symbolize the fact that they could speak. Yeah. Wow. So I assume the answer no to this question. Okay. Because you said, we're going to get weird. I'm like, okay, let's get weirder. But you're talking about the multilingual aspect of these things, where they use sign language, kind of speak for a human to understand. And then barking, obviously, very fluent,

first language. Yeah, native tongue. I've talked to people who say they have communicated with these things. And there is a suggestion that there is a telopathic communication at times with these things. Have you ever come across anything like that? And these writings were suggest that these things are able to communicate without actually moving their mouths? Yeah. So earlier you mentioned, what were the three things that you mentioned that you talked about in Utah? It was the historical manufactured and metaphysical. Yeah. So I have theories on all three of those. Okay. And the way that I understand this to be, and it's kind of funny. I know a lot of people who don't have the context for this is just going to sound absolutely insane. But this should click in your head,

Tony. But having the understanding that these are highly likely descendants of Nephlema-Nephalima-jacent creations, this would mean that they are, in fact, demon-brood to some extent, right? That they would have this super, they would have supernatural abilities. A lot of these writings will get into some of them, at least one or two, that talk about magic that they perform, because they're consistently understood to be, okay, consistently is the wrong word, frequently, frequently understood to have magical abilities. So stuff like controlling ocean waves and forest magic and stuff like that. They were considered in South America from a lot of like oral traditions that they would be like kind of these spirit guides or have these spiritual

aspects to them where they could vanish and honestly just demonic stuff, right? Where they would have these magical abilities. And in some of that stuff, yes, they would speak telepathically. But I really do think that's because of, you know, if this is legitimate, then my biblical paradigm tells me that this would be

this would be through supernatural means that they're able to telepathically communicate with somebody else. And who knows, maybe that's where some of this confusion is. Because, you know, to be fair, it can be confused. that there's so many different sources. And you have to, like, and I have, but you have to, like, map it out

and say, okay, well, these people are talking about these tribes in this location doing that, and these tribes in that location acting like this. And we'll talk about Marco Polo a little bit later, but he talks about, well, they, the ones that he saw looked like bull mastip dogs, but the ones in, like, you know, Africa, well, they look more like jackals.

And so there are variations. And, you know, when you talk about ones in Australia and certain islands, people who, like, or, you know, South America, Eric could be like, oh, well, they're cannibals. Maybe they were, because they're cannibal people, too, right? Again, they say, well, his representative, because they say cannibal, but they're not talking about eating each other.

They're talking about eating humans. They're like, oh, yeah, they'll eat whoever they catch. And so you'll hear like, okay, well, this tribe seems to be these wise sages, and this tribe seems to be a very civilized. This tribe, well, they seem to be cannibals and barbaric and all over the place. And so sometimes, you know, you can read these things to go, oh, well, you know, it's inconsistent. they don't know. How could we know what they really are? Because everyone's telling a different story.

Actually, no. They're telling consistent stories to certain locations. Yeah. And those different tribes just have very different. They're like us. I mean, you know, it's like, there's different tribes of humanity. We do different things. We look different. We act different. We have different practices. You know, we do magic. You know, let's acknowledge that. Absolutely. I mean, let's just, I mean, put it in a perspective of, I mean, imagine if, you know, we're not going down this topic, but say millions of light years away, there are. aliens that exist and they visit us here. I mean, that's a rabbit hole I don't want to touch today. But imagine if that happened. They come here. They report back and they're like, yeah, you know, like we're all green here, but there, there's some like pale skin ones and some

dark ones and some middle ones and some eyes look different than the others. And they just, they're all the same species, but they look so different depending on where you go on, this round ball that they have. Here, it's flat. We just have. We just have. We just have. They're, this flat disc that we sit on, there it's a round ball. And it's just like, it's this perspective that might be shifting. And also with the supernatural angle of this, I feel like I say it a lot, but I'm increasingly becoming aware that we have new listeners that maybe aren't familiar with the old episodes. You know, I have a twin brother and sister.

We don't know what twins are, but they came out looking very, very. very different. Yeah. And, you know, I'm Puerto Rican and they're Puerto Rican, but my sister, like blonde, blonde, it's light brown hair, very fair skin. You would never think that she's Puerto Rican. And then her brother comes out darker than me looking like a Puerto Rican Mr. Bean. Like, I mean, they look so different.

It's like they're twins, you know? So the idea that all Nephilim types or these creatures that are off, you know, side shoots of what happened have to all act and look the same, I think is kind of ridiculous when you just look at my own family. When I look at my family, they come from the same stock, but yet they have different attributes. So is it possible that some of these things have, you know, more supernatural capabilities than others, you know? Why not?

I think it's exactly right. And we talked a little bit last time. I don't know if you remember. We talked a little bit last time. I don't know. I do that. about writings in in the second temple period

Jewish literature that talk about the Nephilim. And they, like in Jubilee's, it's Jubilee's Chapter 7. And First Enoch chapter 7, plus happens to be chapter 7. And they describe them as being, well, actually, you know, there were three races, we mentioned.

I have a whole blog post on this, but like the three race article you can look it up. But there are three different races and talks about like the first were these great giants and then there was the Nephilim and then it was these L-EU to the L-Jo and we have no idea what that last word really means or what it comes from. So there's kinds of these different races. Then we see the stuff from the Book of the Giants. That's another text that's from the Dead Sea Scrolls.

And it's talking about, you know, it says from those angels that that impregnated women, it says, and they bore giants and monsters. Mention that too. and then talked about how Jubilee specifically says, and they were all unalike from one another. It says like there was great variety of different. Like they looked super different from each other. And then you have writings from Josephus.

This is also on my blog, and we talked about it last time, but Joseph talks about, I want to say it's in, so it's in his book, The Antiquity of the Jews, and I think it's in book five chapter two, section three. but he talks about them being looking entirely different from humankind. Entirely different. So it's like these people don't even look like people is what he's saying. And so when you look at that and we say there's tons of variety and they don't even look human,

it lines up with a lot of the stuff that we're talking about. When we talk about these different cryptic creatures are rices, when we're talking about a dog-headed person or we're talking about a goat, a goat person, right, like a sater. And I was going to bring that up because of what you said, you know, when you were like, oh, yeah, I would look at humans and look at all the variety. There was this guy, Philistorgias, and we have some of his writings because of Fodius. The names I know are kind of funny.

But Philistorgias, he wrote about, he was trying to like find a way to talk about them. And the word that he ended up using for it was eight. He's like, there are these different types of apes. And he talks about there's like the dog-headed, dog-headed one he uses synecophily. And he talks about Sater. And he goes back and forth. He uses the actual words. He refers to them as an ape, and then he says, but it's this mythical creature, right?

But he's pointing out the fact that they're humanoid chimeric creatures. And by chimera, I mean like a combination, a hybrid combination of animals. And so he actually goes into detail about, he mentions, oh, yeah, there are these, he's like, I've seen a sater. I've seen a goat man. He's like, it was actually captured in India and it was transported to Constantinople. which is where he was. And the king of Constantinople had it as a gift from the king of India.

Wow. And he's like, yeah, it was caged and eventually it died and they used salt to preserve the body. And he's like, it's really wild-looking that he said it was super ferocious

and it was really hard to keep in place and it goes into detail about it. And he says that his theory was, he's like, well, this was clearly a Seder. And so he says, oh, I think,

now this is from, you know, Phil Storgias was a Catholic. Right? I forget at what rank in the church he was, but he was a Catholic, and so he didn't believe in the existence, even in the existence of other gods, whatnot.

So he said, hey, I think this is where the Greeks got the concept of their God Pan. He's like that they saw the real creature that I've seen and that they invented the concept of Pan. And now what I would say to that is, you know, if this is legitimate, I would actually think it's the other way around. I think that it would be that there's a fallen angel that looks like that, that had kids.

That's what exactly where I was. And so I look at that and go, well, this would be a type of Nephilim race that survives and you have these Saders. And Sater stuff is wild. Maybe we could do an episode on that someday. But like Sater stuff is up there with Sinecphaly and like so much documentation. And have you ever gone to Europe, Tony? No, I don't like. I don't go to you.

I don't like leaving the boundaries of our country. Okay. Well, if you go to Europe, I've taken so many pictures, but it's wild. You'll see Seder stuff everywhere. Really? Yeah, especially in like Spain, in, what's it, Picasso? It's not, wait, yeah, Pablo Picasso.

He is known for doing a lot of art of Saders. Here's the thing. He said himself that he actually wasn't like, I'm going to go draw these things, paint these things, and sculpt these things because a bunch of different mediums of art. He said, no, I was actually guided by something.

There was something in my mind just told me to do this. Really? So I'm like, this guy had a demonic influence and he just started making tons of Seder stuff. And it was like, goat head person here, goat head person there, good thing there.

Like, you go around, you go to the museums, you will see so many sculptures. You'll see it on rails in the Plaza de Spain in Sevilla, Spain. If you walk around, I went there with my dad and if you walk around

you will find like on the pillars on the rails on the floors on the walls just like snuck in there like it's not obvious but if you pay attention and you look in this like the different details show

this like goat head with these horns and this person with this creepy smile and I'm like this is weird why is it everywhere you know I'm like oh it's just art I really don't think so

I really do think that this is a connection to something that's demonic and the enemy is is guiding people to worship them and celebrate them all throughout their cultures. And that kind of goes even into our modern day culture. Like art was the Hollywood, right? Like, art was what people, like, it was entertainment. And so it was to be admired.

That's why they spent so much time in these churches creating such beautiful art. That way they trick people to go there. And so, like, but I mean, the idea of Hollywood and today's art, I just want to clarify, I was just kidding about that, by the way. I know somebody's going to take me serious on that. But you look at today's art form is mainly driven by Hollywood and what's put on the screens and the hidden esoteric messaging that we see in today's modern art. It's like it's a new medium but the same tactics.

It's very interesting. That's very interesting. And what you said about the fallen angels, you know, that's something that is. It's not like a, I know you didn't, like, it wasn't an original thought or anything for you, but like it's something I don't know if it's hit on a whole lot that the idea that, you know, the, all these angels that rebelled, the idea that they all looked the same is more of a construct of our, our modern, commercialized understanding of angels. Right, which mostly comes from medieval Catholicism because it's like, oh yeah, it's a person with wings. Not according to literally anything in the Bible. The Bible just does not depict them that way.

Right. And I'm not even talking about the wheels within wheels and all that stuff, which actually is not what they look like. I don't know if we want to get into that, but it's linguistic stuff, so people misinterpret that. But when you look at descriptions of angels, they do look like us, first off. So when you see an normal angel,

an average angel it appears, they just look like us. And Paul says, yeah, this is why you can mistake them for humans. Like that's how much they look like us. So sometimes you mistake them. Sometimes it's, whoa, what did I just see? And you're freaking out right in the Bible. Other times you have specific type of, not angel, because an angel is as a role. It's a messenger.

But the ones that aren't necessarily messengers, those ones look crazy. And that's when we're talking about cherubim, seraphim. So a cherub and a seraph, like those guys, we're talking about like, they do have wings. six wings, four wings. It'll talk about like the head of a bull, the body of a man, the feet of a bull, or the feet of a ball, the head of an eagle, we've got the head of a lion, the face of a man,

like different crazy combinations. You look at Revelation, and it's talking about in the end times, we're going to be, well, not us, but we're going to be, you know, as a God's wrath on the wicked, there's going to be this swarm of these creatures that have like the face of a,

a human, but the teeth of a line and they have long hair like a woman and they have the tail like a scorpion, a body like a horse, and like all this crazy stuff is going on. That is the spiritual realm. That's what these things look like. It's crazy. And so we're talking about, like, Egyptian gods style stuff and crazier. And, like, when you look at the different myths and you're looking at the Greek mythology and the Egyptian mythology, and you're especially, like, you know, if you look at, if you go to

any of the museums in Europe and you're looking at. the Assyrian, these Mesopotamian statues, and you've got griffins and you've got sphinxes and all these different things. These guys are crazy combinations that actually line up with the concept of what these cherubium look like. And they're calling basically the same thing. Like, this is a guardian cherub creature, right? And it's lining up a lot with what the Bible is talking about. And it's not one for one. And there's plenty of lies, plenty of deceptions, plenty of confusion. Stuff is made up.

I'm not saying all mythology is accurate, right? Sure, sure. You know, don't think that's what I'm saying, but I'm saying there's a green of truth in a lot of these things. Back to what you originally said. Oh, you believe everything you read. Yeah, no, no. But what we can see is we can see this pattern.

And, you know, I understand for someone who doesn't, who isn't a believer and doesn't follow Christ, doesn't believe that the truth is, that the Bible is truth, and there are truth, is proved correct time and time again. I mean, a lot of historians can even just say, hey, it's historically accurate book. But I understand that if you don't take that as full truth,

a lot of women saying just doesn't line up. And that's fair. But because of my spiritual experiences, because of me having personal empirical evidence that Jesus is real and that I mean, I can tell you how many times I've been saved from crazy demonic experiences. Like, you can tell me all day long that God doesn't exist. But when I call the name of Jesus

and I'm being pinned against the wall by something I can't see, his name saves me. So call it whatever you want. But I'm like, for me, that's real. So for me, I read the Bible and I go, this is 100% truth. And I work from there. I understand that doesn't really work for people who don't believe that stuff.

And you have to dig even deeper. But you can still find it. You'll still find all those different texts and you can connect the dots. But for me, it's a lot easier because I'm able to say, okay, I know that these creatures exist because the Bible says so. And then I can go from there. Like Sators. Sater's one of the ones like, Dogman debatably might come up in this one path.

passage in, you know, in Isaiah, but only maybe, it's debatable. Sators show up several times in the Bible, even show up in the laws of Leviticus. It's Leviticus 17-7. Really? Yeah. And so literally God is like, hey, you guys can't do inappropriate things with Saders anymore, and you can't worship them. He literally says that, right?

Yeah, he's going to pull it up. You know, that's wild. I'm pretty sure it's 17-7. So when you look at stuff like that, then you have Isaiah 34 and 14, you have these different passages. They're talking about satyrs, the Bible recognizes them as fully real. And when you read it in most English translations, it will actually say goat demon. So it's like, these are demonic creatures.

Yeah. League of 17, verse 7, so this is ESV. So they shall no more sacrifice their sacrifices to goat demons after whom they whore. Yeah. Don't hold back, bro. Yeah. This shall be a statute forever for them throughout their generations.

Wow. And this is what, you know, this is stuff that was going on all the way up through Jesus' time, Cessori of Philippi, right? When he's saying, you know, on this rock and he's talking to Peter, and I say your name is Peter, he's standing near the temple at Cessori of Philippi. What did they do there? They did adult things with goats. Why?

Because, according to Lerner, he's. And back in the day, they did it with not just goats, but they did it with goat people with satyrs out of worship of the satyrs to the God Pan, supposedly the father of this guys. You know, we're kind of going down the satir route, but just to keep it going. This reminds me of, this is going to be a hard right turn, but years ago, I was still driving truck. And I get a phone call from West from Sasquatch Chronicles. And he's like, hey, man, I'm going to send you a link. And I need you to listen to this conversation I just had. And he's like, he's like, I don't know what to do with it. And I think he actually, he, I know he

aired it because I agged him on. I was like, you got to air this, man. Who cares? You got to This guy had an interaction with Bigfoot. But he went to this lady's house, an old lady's house, and she was co-living with these things. And he said that, I forget the whole story, but the guy continually emphasized the physical characteristics of a female Bigfoot. And the way he said it, I was like, I'm pretty sure. you would, bro. I'm pretty sure you would. And so with what you're saying and stuff, this idea that they, um, they would, you know, uh, cross breeze breeze or what, but like have sexual relations with these things. Um, just but judging off of that one story that popped in my mind and stuff,

there's probably physical characteristics that wasn't too hard of a stretch for them and be like, okay. You know, like, like, we're, we're thinking like this, this upright walking goat that just is scary to look at and very much physically, you know, a goat. And it may not be the case. No. Yeah. Like, it might be this hybrid looking thing that you're just like, if I put a bag over the head. It's just, you know, I'm just, like, we don't know what these things actually looked like. So to me, it's not too far as stretch to say that, you know, people maybe didn't have so much of a hard time even committing those acts. Yeah. Unfortunately, a lot of these. writings that I come across are adult material.

Even with Dogman, there's some weird stuff that comes up with Ibin Batuto, who is an Arabic traveler, and he came back, he brought all this stuff, and he writes about them. I wasn't planning to talk about it. So I don't have a citation in front of me, but he writes about them in his travel log, and he's talking about, like, oh, yeah, and this guy who, like, you know, had sex with him a whole bunch. He said this stuff. And I'm like, whoa, I didn't need to know that, right? Wow. And so, unfortunately, like, that stuff happened. And it shouldn't be surprising because if these creatures really are demonic, you know, sexual worship and magic is a thing.

And unfortunately, it was incredibly common in the past. I'm sure it's still happening in cults and stuff like that. But it was a big, it was a big deal. And this is why God was speaking against it. And saying, you guys can't do, like, this is super bad. Right? This is really, really bad. And I was going to talk about this part later in my notes, but since we're already on the topic, we're just going to keep it rolling. We're just going to, we're going to let this, this recording go as long as it needs to go. I was going to, I want to, everything we're going to, we wanted to cover today. I want to hit on it. So I don't care how long this takes. So I have countless times come across stories of people talking about a connection between dog man,

werewolf type creatures and the occult. And sometimes in the same location at the same time. So what you just said rings so true to me that there is a connection here. I'm actually going to be having a lady come in studio here, probably in 2025 sometime, to go into some detail when it comes to this specific thing. But yeah, I don't know where I was going other than making that connection that people have often contributed to the conversation when it comes to the occult and these dogmen. Like even Shane Cashman from the Tim Pool camp, that's when I first heard about this connection. I was driving to Kentucky and I'm listening to him to talk about it on Tim Pool, how he talked to a witch who was in one of these magic schools, schools of mystery. And she said they were learning how to open portals.

And they opened a portal and an upright walking, he said, an upright walking dog came through. Yeah. Like I was like, what? Yeah. That's wild. Yeah. I've heard stuff like that. And I've even heard, you know,

there have been episodes on, you know, blurry creatures and stuff that they've had people come on and talk about some crazy stuff there too, where it's a similar thing. And there's this book, I don't even recommend that people read it, but just so you know my source, there is a book called Science and Literature

in the Middle Ages and Renaissance. And it speaks to the fact that there is a, that the concept of, and it connects all the stuff, that the cult has had and has this at least the very least in the Middle Ages but it seems like very much still does this concept that there are these different types of spirits

and that it talks about some of them being these dog-headed people and it mentions several other types of things when you read it, it's connecting fairies and folklore and all sorts of creatures that you'd be like there's no way but it's saying this is all spiritual

and it's connecting connecting the dots to what, you know, I understand now and took me a lot of research to get to this point as a believer, but like, what I understand now to be, you know, when a Nephalim type creature dies, according to not,

well, actually, so directly according to a lot of other Jewish texts, spirits of the dead Nephalem stick around, and they become demonic spirits. Indirectly, but critically stated, You can connect the string in the different passages throughout the Bible.

It is actually indisputably pointing out that that's the case. I was kind of fumbling over my words there because it's very like, it's very linguistic. It's very like you have to dig into the, go beyond the English, basically. But it is. It all comes down to the understanding of what the Refayem were. And the Refayem were connected with an Ephelim. And we understand the word Refaheem changes over time as the Bible. Bible is talking about them, and first it's talking about them as these giants that are alive,

then it's talking about them as giants that are dead, but still here. And then it's talking about them as these departed spirits, these evil spirits that are doing this bad stuff. So, the language is there that they were once alive, now they're dead, but they're still here. You get more detail into what people believed that meant from other texts outside of the Bible. But the Bible itself does prevent, if you want really good literature on that, honestly, like Michael Heiser is one of the better people who points to a bunch of scholars and shows how that makes sense. And he was one of the only people that really explained it to me well. Because I've heard other people mention it like, oh, yeah, and this is a thing.

I'm like, where's the evidence? Like, I want to see that that's the thing because I'm not reading that in my English translation of the Bible. But it's there. You just have to really, really dig for it. But yeah, Unseen Realm and the Demon's book by Michael Heiser, he really explains that well and goes step by step. What's the second book you mentioned?

Demons. Demons? There's like a subtitle of that, but I forget what it is, like the powers of darkness or something. But it's the most, it's the only book that I feel like I can recommend on demons because it's not dark. It's just, hey, here's what the Bible says. And let's go in depth and see linguistically what's actually going on here because he was a linguist. Yeah. That's what he did.

So that's the only book that I feel like I can really recommend on that that anyone he could read. I've missed that one. You should check it out. I missed that one. I think it would connect a lot of dots for you. Yeah. I think, is it easy to read than Unseen Realm? that one was like a head trip.

It's probably similar, but it probably would be easier for you to read. I never read Unseen Realm. I listened to it several times while I was driving truck, which was... Oh, that's hard. It was terrible because it's like... Rewind that 10 times, and I wish I could take a note right now because I have this thought and I got to remember. It was terrible, but I listened to it a lot.

That's the kind of book you really want to read physically. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I got the Demon's book physically. that, so that helped a lot. Check that out. So I would highly recommend getting that in not audio form because that would be confusing. But yeah, he does a really good job. I would say it's easier than non-seen realm the way that, like,

if your paradigm is already set in place to understand that stuff, it's not really that big of a stretch in Unseen Realm as like challenges a lot of modern paradigms. Yeah. I don't really feel like the Demon's book does. So in that sense, I feel like it would be easier. Yeah, I agree. And he actually came out with several books that helped support unseen realm in a more, I don't want to say rational way. That's the wrong word.

But a coherent way for Normies. Yeah, like supernatural. Yeah, supernatural is one of them. And I'm drawing a blank on. I'm looking at the shelf over here. If I have it up there, I don't think I do. I see he has the companion book for, I have that over there for Book of Enoch. That's a good one.

Yeah. Yeah, it must be in the story. He also has Angels as well. Yeah. Angels is great. I have that as well. Yeah. But anyways. Where are we going? We just ravitrailed. I said we weren't doing rabbit trails today, man.

And you said, well, I'm made HD. I'm like, oh, shoot. It's all good. Two of us, man. So that, so that, we're going down this rabbit trail. And I was planning on talking about this. I'm just going to jump and let's do it. Go back. Yeah. We're already talking about it. It's so funny because I was like, oh, I'm going to present this like, coherent step by step

and here we're just going to the craziest stuff right up front. Yeah, we got it. We got it. When you come to my house, we got to get the crazy out right away. That's right, yeah. It's the miracle way. So, genetics. Okay. There's this, we're talking about angels, talking about them having, you know, kids

are talking about them, this potentially being what's going on. You can start, you know, studying like Nifflin, blood, how does that affect stuff? And I've been reading a lot of stuff and realizing that when you look at the monstrous races, the consistency throughout it is that is the concept of physical deformity. Because if you read, and there is,

there's a lot of literature on the monstrous races, when you're reading this kind of stuff, they're going to be like, oh, yeah, here's a guy with no head in his face and his chest. Well, that's wild. Here's a guy with a dog head. Well, that's wild. But then there's stuff that's like, oh, you know,

Simon Swin. Like, oh, well, we have those. We have those. That's a thing, right? And then it's like, oh, yeah, you know, one-eyed person. It's like, well, that's actually also a modern physical deformity. And then it will talk about polydactyl, right, and having six fingers and six toes.

Well, that's also. And of course, you know, First Chronicles 20 says that's literally Nephilim trait. And so you can connect these dots and realize, like, I think a lot of human deformities. I don't even know how many. Who knows? Maybe it's all of them. I wonder how much of human physical deformities

actually come from the corruption of the Nephilim bloodline in the human race because you can very easily connect to these dots and see that these deformities are pointing back to the Nephilim. The six fingers is very easy, very cut and dry. But then when you're looking at these other monstrous races, it's like, oh, yeah, well, cyclops. Like, one eye and you're a giant, that's a Nephilim,

but we still have people who have one eyes. Like, I wonder if that's connected, you know? And we still have people who are born as giants, but they don't live as long. Well, neither do the kids with one eye. Why is it that over time, people who have these deformities are dying sooner and sooner and sooner and sooner and sooner? I'm not totally sure, but I am seeing this connection there.

And a lot of these deformities connecting to these masters races, is make you wonder, wait a minute, what if it's just all the same thing? Like, you know, we can look at it and say, oh, well, these ones are real and these ones aren't. But what if we're wrong? What if they're all the same category? What if the deformities are more spiritual than we thought they were?

And what if the spiritual crazy stuff is more physical than we thought it was, right? And it's actually in the middle. And so this is one of the things that really opened my mind to that concept, because other than the stuff I just mentioned, I was dismissing a lot of this for a while. but, and I mentioned this to you. This actually goes back to, we were talking about the, when you, when you spoke in Utah. Yeah.

When you called me that day and you were like, oh, hey, like, can you send me some of the stuff you have? I was in the middle of teaching a class at our school. And fortunately, like, they were like taking a test for whatever. So it was like, okay, it's fine. So I step out and I was like, what's going on? And when you asked about that and then we talked a little bit more about stuff we might talk about later, I'd mention, I'm like, oh, yeah, there's this thing I came across that's about these conjoined twins, where one head is a human head and one head is a dog.

I don't know if you remember, but I mentioned that, and you were like, well, for sure, talk about that, because that's crazy. So this is something that I came across. There are a lot of these different writings, and I'm talking about encyclopedias and history books that include illustrations. And I'll send you guys an image so you can throw that up, Jack. but there are a lot of these different illustrations of Siamese twins where one head is a human head and the other head is actually a dog. That blows a lot of paradigms out of the water

because it's like, well, hold on. It's not even just a separate race. It's like, this would mean that the genetics would be in the human race. Because what they're saying is this is just a normal woman who just has a child and is like, what is that? you know, and they, a lot of them, you know, grew up and had lives. Now, this is not common. It was rare. But because it was rare, it was a big deal. And so they would include it in these different books. So, you know, one example is from the 17th century. I'm probably going to say this

name wrong, but Fortunio Lichetti, he wrote de Monstrum Natural, which means like on the origin of monsters. So on the origin of monsters, 17th century book, you can find it in like the rare book collection kind of stuff. there's this page, again, we'll throw it up on the screen, but there's this page that's talking about this exact deformity. And it compares the two, like it puts up a person next to just a dog that's like standing up right. And then it shows the Siamese twin where it's like,

this is fully human, but then just the head is a dog. That part's absolutely wild. And when it goes in the detail, it just says, oh, yeah, there was this, you know, Duke who had the, this wife and she had this child and it was weird. And that was, you know, that was wild. And it just moves on. And similar thing in some of these others, um, by Giovano Battista in 1585. You know, he writes this, this book on monsters. Um, it's, you know, called monsters from all parts of the ancient and modern world. Of course, his modern world was, you know, a couple hundred years ago.

But he depicts the same thing. And in his, it's like, they're dressed in like monk garb. And you have, again, Siamese twin, they're conjoined at the hip, and you have the head of a dog in one, the head of a human on the other. And then the other one,

which is an example from a book that I bring up a lot. It's one that I have a rare copy of that I'm super proud of having a copy of it. But it's a Nuremberg Chronicle from the 15th century. And that, I had read some of,

and connected dots, because that's kind of the, like if you pull up Wikipedia and you put in Sinocephali, like the picture that you see is from Nuremberg Chronicle. That's kind of like the go-to picture. And so you can read about that. But it also, what it brings up later on in the book

that I only came across more recently is the same thing. It has these two people, they're in monk garb. So it's like, you know, why are they wearing those clothes? I don't know. It doesn't tell us. But all it says is a woman bore a monster,

double-bodied, having a human face in the front and a dog face in the back. And it just moves on. It's like, yeah, that's what happened in this year of 1,000 whatever. Completely normal. Just totally, you know, it's like, oh, yes, that's something that happened. Wow. Yeah. So, okay, go ahead.

So I was just going to say, like, this is something that is genuinely hard for me to believe. But when I look at it, I'm like, okay, if this is a thing, that means that this is genetic. That means that, like, you know, if I'm to believe that, this is likely connect to the nephylene that means the nephylene bloodline those genetics are in the pool somewhere

where people have the potential to maybe have kids who just like they have the potential to have I'm not trying to freak anybody out you're not going to... Just do it. No, you're not going to have... I don't think you're going to have a kid like that. Maybe. It's possible.

But like people still have a cyclops child, like people still have, you know, what's his name? Robert Wadlow, I think it was, who was like the last, like, giant who was like nine foot, whatever tall. Yeah. He was like, like, eight, nine or something like that, right?

Yeah, yeah, something like that. So, like, super tall. And he died young, but from like an infection. So it wasn't because of how tall it was? It wasn't because of how tall it was. Interesting. But they do say that, like, there was a lot of physical ailments that came from it. Like, not malnutrition.

He didn't exercise enough. So, like, he had a lot of atrophy. And it was really hard for him to stand. He had to lean on things a lot. So I don't know how much of that is like he just needed to exercise. I don't know. But whatever it was, you know, life was rough for. him, and I do feel bad for him. But there are a couple other people not going to go into it

because it's on rabbit trouble. If you look it up, it's funny because people like, giants can't exist. I'm like, literally, the Guinness Book of World Records has so many giants in there. Like, they're a thing. That's not, it shouldn't even be debatable. But anyways, so yeah, so you look at that and it's like, okay, this is, it seems like the same thing where every now and then there's this rare moment where the gene kicks in, someone has a kid and it's like, whoa, What is that? Yeah. And that's something that comes up in a lot of literature.

Did you ever see? I think it was, it was, what was it was it was an NBA player. That's what it was. Mike Conley. His wife is white and blonde and he's a black guy. And their kid came out looking white and blonde. And people were like, oh, you better get a DNA test. And it's like she didn't cheat on it.

It's just the genes, the DNA that kicked in, you know? Yeah. It happens. It does. And it makes you wonder, man, Jersey Devil story. You ever hear the origins of that? Yes. Do you want to talk about that?

Sure, let's talk about it. Because what I'm thinking is, wasn't it something about how, like, it was a normal family in the 13th child came out looking? like I had like I had half a head of a horse and half of a goat and it was like this devil creature, you know. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Sorry, excuse me. I was reading stuff by, do you know Lauren Coleman?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so he claimed that he kind of disproved the Jersey devil thing. Next topic. I know. No, no, no. I'm like, I don't know. I don't want to hear this. I'm just curious.

See, his whole thing was he was like, yeah, I looked into it and it seemed like it was. actually a really good ploy by real estate moguls who are trying to get people out of the town to buy up. I don't know if that's true, but that's what he said. So I've always been kind of like curious about that. Like, is that the case? Is it not the case? I don't know. Does Lauren Coleman put

weight into dog-headed people and creatures? He, I actually just went to his museum like a couple weeks ago. The International Museum of Cryptozoology. Where's that at Maine or something? Portland Maine. Portland, yeah. They're actually about to build I'll say you to the staff. They're actually about to build

way bigger one. I forget where, but nearby, still in Maine. But closer where he lives, not in Portland. And there is stuff there on Dogman. He doesn't go into it as much. I'm trying to get a hold of him. I've been reaching out, and I talked to the staff that. I was hoping I could run into him there,

but I talked to him. I was like, hey, how can I get a hold of Lauren Coleman? Because I'd really like to talk to him, because he's one of the last, like, really legitimate cryptosologists. Yeah. Like, the guy's got degrees and all that stuff. And he, I like his approach. He's always like, look, it's not, because people are like, what do you believe?

He's like, it's not about a belief. It's a matter of evidence. So he's always focused on like, it's just about like, is there evidence? Okay, maybe. There's no evidence? Probably not. Like, I don't know. But he doesn't rule things out either.

And so he's gone on, he's proved some things to be real and he's disproved others to not. And the rest of them, he leaves in the gray area. And the document are in the gray area. So he sees a lot of that as like, yeah, like, maybe probably not. But that being said, you want to make a black and white for him.

That's right. Well, I just, no, I want to ask. I'm really curious. I'm like, okay, so like, you're well educated on this. This is something you do. You know, what are methods that you would apply? If you apply those methods to the things I've found, what would you say?

That's what I really want to hear from it? Like, what would you say to all of this evidence, connecting all these dots? Because there's so many modern arguments because scholars, here's the thing, guys, like most people aren't talking about dog-headed people, but the nerds in universities like

Harvard and Cambridge are. They talk about these things and there's academic articles on these things. It's not nearly as much as other stuff, but it's still there and it's still coming out. It's actually kind of increasing just a little bit. So they're talking about it, but they're talking about it as, oh, people were dumb,

they misidentified stuff. It was probably just baboons or stuff like that. I look at it and I go, okay, how does that hold up against when you put all the evidence together? Because we talked last time about yeah, you guys are saying about Boons. The father of Crookedozoology, Bernard Hevelman, who I'm actually a big fan of, in his book, he talks about the synecophily. He dresses it head on.

But he says, oh, I think it was a misidentification. I think it was actually this tribe of monkeys over here. He thought it was by Boone's as well. but it wasn't exactly about boons, but he thought that it was probably monkeys, and he points out Teesius, he points out Pliny the Elder, he points out, I think, Megathini's as well,

probably because Pliny mentions those two. So it may be that he just read Pliny, and he got the other two from that. But then he goes on to say, oh, but, you know, I went to this region, and I looked to talk to these people, looked at this stuff, and it was probably this monkey that they confused,

and he points to the fact like, well, because it mentions the tail in him, mentions the long beard and whatever, and that looks like this monkey. I think maybe he only read Pliny the Elder because, as we talked about last time, T. He just describes a whole nation of 120,000 people. He describes in great detail their hygiene practices, the clothes that they wore, the things that they bought and sold and made and traded and like great detail. And there's just no way that you would say that about a monkey. And so you come to these logical conclusions, we're like, okay, this person is claiming this.

Either they're lying, right? Either they've completely made it up, or it's not a monkey. You know, like, that's what I'm seeing when I'm looking at this. Like, you're either a liar, or if you're telling the truth, it's not a monkey, so what is it? So, and when you apply that logic to all these different sources that we're seeing,

it's like, okay, well, it can't be this. Okay, well, it can't be that. Okay, well, it can't be that, because all these different sources are, you know, it's like playing Sudoku, right? It's eradicating these other possibilities, process of elimination. The only things you're left with is, you know, I'm sure some people who disagree with, but from what I can tell, because there are so many angles that are covered from all the different writings,

I'm more or less left with two options. Mass hysteria across thousands of years in every language and every nation across the world, which seems unlikely. everyone or yeah I'll go I'll say three because the other one may be that everyone in the world has always been lying for thousands of years that seems even less likely

as I wasn't even going to bring it out but or that this is legitimately a thing and it legitimately being a thing there's some wiggle room there like some people like well what if it's real people but they're just a little deformed in the face so they're calling them dog face it's like well that doesn't hold up

because you have these writings that are describing in detail this is how long their teeth are and this how long their snout is it's like really emphasizing the snout. So I'm like, it's not that, right? So I'm, for me personally, looking at all the evidence, I'm left between like the whole world is deceived and it has been deceived for thousands of years.

And maybe that's demonic. Okay, sure, I'll hold that as possibility. Or it's like, this is a thing. And again, I still hold everything loosely. But that's why I was like staying up at night. And that's why I kind of struggle with this concept because I can't disprove it. If that makes sense.

I'm like, I'm not bold enough to say concrete 100%. If someone asks me on the street, are they real, I'd say probably. You'd say, no, no, are they real or not? And I'd say, probably. Because, like, I'm a very, like, I, you know, if we don't have one in the cage, like, okay, I get it. That is the only, like, 100% concrete proof because there is deception. There's demonic stuff out there.

But it's hard for me to, to say that honestly looking at all of the evidence, looking at all of the writings, looking at everything that's going on. And like that goes back to time. Okay, we don't have one in a cage. What if they don't have one in a cage a thousand years from now? And they're going to be in the same spot we're in now.

Because you said, what was it, hundreds or whatever years ago it was, they had a body of a satyr and they even put salt on it to preserve the body after it died. Like they had something on the table at one point. Right. We don't have it now, and we're back to the same thing of saying, well, maybe it was, I doubt it, though.

It's probably just mythical creature. Right. And back then, they're like, no, it's right here. And so, no, we don't have one on the table right now. But if we had one on the table right now, future generations are going to be the same boat that we're in right now. We have to make a leap at some point to say, okay, just because we don't have the body doesn't mean that this is impossible because it would negate hundreds, thousands of years of history of people saying, no, we did have a body right here. Right. We saw them, you know.

What are you supposed to do with all the people that come on your show? And they're like, I've seen one. Yeah. And I have literally, like, the people who talk about it, you can tell. You're traumatized by it. People, I don't know. I mean, everybody has their own thought process on things and stuff. But, I mean, I just, for me personally, I just go to, is it like kind of what you were just saying?

Like, is it possible? Okay, mathematically, probably possible where everybody is lying or really. really, really dumb and misidentifying things and, you know, these up close personal interactions with this stuff. I mean, I'm talking face to face. It almost swallowed me whole kind of thing, you know? Like episode 335 is a classic one. Like he said, he literally said on that episode, it was so close, he could look down the back of its throat. Like, you don't get much closer than that, you know? So, like, are all those people lying or really dumb? From my simple brain, it doesn't compute. I'm like, I don't think so. No. Are some people lying? For sure. For sure.

Our hoax is a thing? Yeah. 100%. We just did an episode a few weeks ago, the art of the hoax where I have the guy who runs Instagram account Squatch Me Now. His friend Brock is like 6, 7, 6, 8, and when he puts on a Bigfoot costume, he's over 7 feet tall. And they actually, this is one of their things, is they're trying to show and understand how hard is it to actually hoax good footage, you know? And he just so happens to have this giant of a human being. But like, is that a thing? Yeah. Yeah, that's a thing. But is it a thing for every single case? I mean, we're over 700 episodes on this show now. And I'm just a drop in a bucket of stories out there. You know, it's like, are they all lying and just really dumb people?

mathematically, probably possible. But in my simple brain, I don't think so. In my simple brain, there's this guy, Paul the Deacon, who in the 8th century, AD, he was a Benedictine, how I say that wrong, Benedictine monk, scribe, historian, and he mostly wrote about the Lombards,

which is like a Germanic tribe that occupied a lot of Italy. this is actually a hoax, but this is a pretty cool takeaway from it. So he says that the Lombard military heard that the invaders were coming and they're like, we can't take them. So what do they do?

They spread rumors saying that the sinus cephali, they hired a whole army of sinusephali and that they were camping with them. So what did they do? They went around and they lit fires, for a bunch of fake camps so that when they came, they would see,

oh, wait, there really are a whole bunch of camps. This hoax doesn't work unless you believe. Right. That there could be a whole army of dog-headed warriors. And here's the thing.

It worked. The entire invading army turned around and literally ran for the hells. They were like, we are not fighting those things. So they left. Wow. Wow.

It was a hoax, but it had much weight because the belief in existence of those creatures was 100%. There was no, in the 8th century and 9th century, there's so much material from the centuries because people, that's when we get all these monks who are like reaching out to them. They're like, okay, we're trying to evangelize to these guys. And they're like, how do we, that's, you know, in the 9th century, it's not very long after, you know, Paul the Deacon, we have what we'll talk about later. But, you know, Ratrimus of Corby is

talking to Rimbard of Hammig Brim, and he writes in this letter, and they go in detail where, you know, Rimbert's out there on the field in Scandinavia, which, by the way, doesn't have baboons, so it's not baboons. So he's in Scandinavia, and he's meeting these creatures, and he's getting reports of them and how they live their lives and everything. He's reaching back, and he's like, do we evangelize to these guys? Like, are they, you know, can they be saved? Are they from the line of Adam? Like, what's going on here? And so having that correspondence in the letters is absolutely wild, and that's from this time. So, like, it wasn't, oh, everybody was convinced by a lie from far off lands.

It was in Europe. People were seeing them. In Europe, people are mentioning, I was, maybe we'll still get to it, but earlier, I was going to talk about, like, Cicero. Cicero is a famous, a famous, orator, lawyer, historian guy. He's the first person to say that Herodicus was the father of history. This man was super well respected. in Rome. He was high up there in the

actual arms of society. And he in his letter to Atticus, I should probably pull this up so I can give the citation for it, but he in his letter to Atticus, it's in epistolate ad adacum, which just means letters to Atticus in Latin, but if you look that up, you'll find it. And he says in his sixth letter, he just randomly mentions this.

He's like, oh yeah, so he's actually gossiping. I love this. He's like, oh yeah, I was told, this is actually a word for word quote. I was told all this by P. Weddius, that's the last name, a hairbrained fellow enough, but yet an intimate friend of Pompeii's.

This Wedias came to meet me with two chariots, a carriage and horses, and a sedan and a large suite of servants for which of which last, if Curio had carried his law, he would have to pay a toll of a hundred cestery apiece. So what he's just saying is, okay, this guy who's a total nut case

showed up and he had this huge caravan with him and he's like, you know, if our friend, what's his name, gets his law passed through, he's like, he's paying a hefty toll for bringing all this stuff through. So that's what he's saying there. Then he says there was also in a chariot a dog-headed... Now here's what the English translation says.

A dog-headed baboon. You can probably guess that's not actually what it said in the letter. It says sinusolea. It uses that word? It uses specifically the word synecophil. He says, as well as... I just lost the place. As well as some wild donkeys.

I never saw him more extravagant fool, not the sinusephylae is talking about his friend. He says, but the cream of the whole of this is that he stayed in lay to see it with Pompeius Willidus. And there he deposited its properties and coming to see me and blah, blah, blah. And it goes on to just kind of talk this guy down

and be like, oh, this guy is such a nut. But part of why he brings it up is like, oh, like this guy's a moron. Like, why is he moron? Like, what is he doing that's so dumb? Because he has a caged dog, a dogman creature who was trying to break out of his cage

on this chariot. He's like, what kind of fool brings us into the middle of the city, right? Now, what you could very easily do is you could read and go, oh, you know, hold on, Seth, like let's be reasonable here, to which I would agree. We should be reasonable. And so I'd be like, well, you know, it's saying it was along there with donkey. So what if, you know,

what if it really was a baboon? What the problem is, linguistically, he didn't say baboon. Everyone doesn't come up. It's really, and this is what I run into a lot. But these things, you find something, they'll say something and that's not what happened. Really, the actual language said this. And you're like, that's...

Totally different. Totally different. And it's the bias. It's like, oh, well, you know, scholars are translating and scholars believe that they were baboons. So they will add baboon all over the place. And just say, oh, it was a baboon. And it's like, that's literally not what he said.

Here's part of why we can so easily say that this was for sure a dog-headed person. Cicero read Herodotus. He's the one who famed him and called him the father of history. He knew that the Greek word, which is really a kinekephaly, or khanekyphaloi, but in Latin, which is what he wrote it in synecophily, he knew that that word meant a race of dog-headed men. We're talking about a lawyer, an orator, a speaker. He doesn't misplace his words.

It's like, well, yeah, I meant to say it was a monkey, but I specifically used this academic term for dog-headed race of men. So it just doesn't line up. So those are the kind of things that we can see. And this is a personal letter. Right. He's not writing to convince someone, right? This is a well-respected, well-educated, well-spoken, individual who high up in society, who's just talking about gossip to his friend.

And he even says in a letter, he's like, you know, I love talking about gossip. He's just gossiping with his friend And he brings up this topic And just wins his pasties, he's just like, oh yeah This guy's an idiot He just brought a dog-headed person over on his cage And moves on Because like, it's the most normal thing in the world

That someone's like, oh yeah, that exists But why would you bring it into town? Right? Because that's ridiculous. Why are you having cage? Like when you look at that, that concept of being cage You can even point that back to what we talked about earlier with Phil Storgias where he's talking about a sater being captured

and caged and being dragged over to the king of Constantinople. So apparently people were doing that. That's wild, man. That's wild. And there's precedent, like, this is so interesting because you're saying that basically there was inserted words, you know, and when you look back at it, it's not exactly what it, you know, and it goes, this is kind of, you know, rabbit hole, so we're going to just circle the top of the hole. We're not going to actually jump down it.

Okay. But in 2nd Samuel, 21, verse 16, it's talking about, they're on a battlefield, and there is a Raphaeim, a form of Nephilim, Ishby binab. I think it was a descendant of Goliath. Right.

One of the, oh yeah, it's right here. One of the descendants of the giants who spear weighed 300, 300 shekels of bronze and who was armed with a new sword thought to kill David. In the original, it does not say sword. It was wielding a new weapon. It was like...

Yeah, it was a new, like modern warfare invention. Right. And it was like, okay, so what are we talking about? Like, what kind of new... Like, we're talking about the dude, like David, who has seen everything on the battlefield. and there's something new. Yeah.

Like, what is this? They constructed this. It's so wild because, like, okay, Giant Slayer and the Giants are like, we have to forge a new weapon to take out the Giants League. Yeah. Like, there's these weapons, and he's beating these weapons.

We need to create some kind of alchimate chemical weapon to take out this stinking man back by God, you know? Yeah. It's just, when I wrote a whole article about that years ago, like I'm thinking probably like 2016, 2017, and the backlash I got from my fellow Bible college classmates and stuff, because, you know, when I was in Bible college, I mean, first of all, I didn't graduate, and I was not the best student, you know?

And so they just look at me as like this moron that couldn't pass. And I am a moron. But like, I changed over the years, you know? And I looked into things. And they're, I forget what they actually said because they were commenting on it and stuff. but it was very much based on, you know, we know one plus one equals two, therefore this equation, reasons to believe means this. And it's like, but does it when you adopt the supernatural worldview and overlay it onto the ancient culture, you know?

And it just, it changes the whole thing. And I just find that interesting that like we see this pattern of making things fit for the audience of the day. when the original writers said, no, no, no, no. That's not at all. A cute story, but no. It's interesting. And I think it's important to point out that

I've had to work on this even for myself. It's important for us to have grace on both sides, right? For sure. Because everyone is trying, everyone is trying to do the best with what they have. I was reading a book. I honestly couldn't even tell you which one it was, because I read too many things, but I was reading something.

It was actually modern, and it was talking about this perspective that can be useful with the way that, like, God is looking down on us and it's like, oh, that's cute, you know? And, like, there's a child that's playing with their blocks, and their dad doesn't show up. You know, and they're like, hey, like, why isn't my dad here? Why isn't he playing with me? He told me he'd play with me. and the dad isn't, you know, EMT work or whatever, and he's saving someone's life.

The dad gets home, well, all that kid knows, this whole world is like, let's say it's two or three-year-old, all they know is that why wasn't my dad here? And then dad arrives, and it's like, why have you wronged me? And we can do that same thing with the Lord where we're like, oh, like, I'm working with the pieces I have. All the information that I have is that he was supposed to be here

and he wasn't here. Therefore, bad dad. Like, that same logic. Like, well, I've walked through it. This is logical. I have a bad dad. What's the truth of the matter? You have a great dad.

He was saving someone's life. That's huge. And God is doing that all the time where he's working all the timing out. Yeah, I know you want this right now, but not now. Because if I do it now, it's going to affect that person,

which affects that person, which affects that, you know? And he's got the whole thing. And so he's working at this higher level. That's why the Bible says, your ways are higher than my ways. How am I supposed to... I should trust you because you know way better than I do.

And so in a similar way, well, in a different way. But in a somewhat similar way, we should have grace on other people who have different paradigms who don't have as many pieces to the puzzle, right? Because I understand

I didn't have those pieces before. Like literally, me six years ago, listening to me now would be that this guy is a nutcase, right? He's lost his mind. But I have more pieces now. Does that mean I'm correct about everything? No, because I still don't have as many pieces

as I could have. And so all of us have a certain number of pieces all of us, there's more that we could have. We're just trying to do the best with what we have. And so it helps me have grace for people who have less. And it helps me have grace with myself, recognizing that other people have more pieces than I do. And so when I realize I have something wrong,

I update the blog article. When I have something that's wrong, I say, hey, new comment, my bad, it's actually this. You know, it's like, I'm going to do my best to have the answers. But when I find out wrong, if I'm going to ignore it, that's a problem. The best thing we can do is recognize, like get as many pieces as we can.

recognize when we're wrong and move forward from there. That's what got us into this mess as a culture and society to begin with. People who have thoughts and opinions on things find out they're wrong and won't acknowledge it and just keep going with it because it's too late down, we're too far down the rabbit hole of my personal conviction and belief on something. I don't want to hear any other information on it. This is set in stone for me, you know. Do you want to hear about a crazy weapon that shows up in the Bible?

Yeah, yeah. Is in Ezekiel 13. Do you already know this? Talk to me. Well, let's go. Okay. I feel like I bring this up frequently with my friends. And they're like, what?

So, Ezekiel 13, 18 through 20. This is in, just happens to be in ESB, 1995. And say, this is God telling Zekele to say, Thus says the Lord, woe to the women who sow magic bands on all wrists and make veils for the heads of persons of every stature to hunt down lives. So they've made magic bands to hunt down people's lives. Will you hunt down the lives of my people,

but preserve the lives of others for yourselves? For handfuls of barley and fragments of bread, you have profaned me to my people to put to death some who should not die and to keep others alive who should not live. by your lying to my people who listen to lies. Thus, says the Lord God, behold, I am against your magic bands

by which you hunt lives as if they were birds. And I will tear them from your arms and I will let them go even those lives whom you hunt as birds. He's talking about the Egyptians making magic wristbands they can apparently hunt down people and like extract their soul somehow. Holy crap. What is that?

Oh, man, brain breaking. Okay. Wow. All right. So, all right. That's a thing in Egyptian mythology, by the way. They claimed they had those. It's in Egyptian mythology.

oh yeah, having this wristband keeps you from going to hell or this wristband which like can store a number of souls to pay the cost of whatever, like, that's pretty wild. To suck the souls?

It means to, I added the word suck. I mean, you know, but it's saying to take their souls and to keep someone alive is not supposed to be alive and to kill someone

who's not supposed to die, right? And to be fair, he also lumps in like, part of that is through listening to these lies. But it's sandwich, and the whole discussion is about these magic bands that God is actually against. He's against these magical bands that they use to hunt people down, hunt down their lives, which the word is soul, hunt down their lives as if they were birds.

Oh, my gosh. Like, you don't fully even know what that means. Me neither, but, like, dude. Talk about advanced technology, bro. Yeah, but, all right. I'm trying to think of how I'm already going crazy I'm sorry

I broke Tony my bad but it's already it's all right they're used to it I guess episode 637 I called it soul trappers oh I didn't listen to that bro

and then I had her back on recently for episode 700 her name's friend she's on X and a long long story short she in 2020 when everything was shut down

I think she's out in Idaho she's a former, she's a retired police officer, and she started deciding to journal write down her dreams. And through a process of revelation, she realized that these are not dreams that she's going through. These are things that are actually happening to her. And she has well over 250 entries at this point since 2020. Wow. And one of the things that she talked about on that first episode was that these beings, these entities that she's dealing with, I'm not sure if she talked about it emphatically or

if she felt like, no, I'm sure she talked about it emphatically like she's experienced this, not personally, but they have a technology that can suck the soul out of people. Yeah. And she was, there's a whole other thing. that lines up. But like, I'm so glad you're here. Just for that alone.

Just for that alone. And I can't wait to send that to her. I'm going to text her that. Oh my gosh, dude. But like, all right. So, um,

she said technology. What you're saying here is magical bands. Yeah. Technology, magical alchemy. Like, same thing. Dude.

Yeah. Like, I know this episode's not supposed to be about this. So like we're like, like I am like I'm, my brain is like, okay, you just had this whole other thing around full circle matched the pieces now. I'm like, I'm trying, I'm trying. I'm matching the pieces. But I can't do it right now.

So we're going to move on. But holy crap, dude. Holy crap. You said the new weapon and then I was like, oh yeah, Ezekiel 13. I pulled it up. It's wild. It's pretty wild. I think about it more often than I show it.

It just pops into my brain. I'm like, what is that? Like this, these are the things that kept you up in night. Like, I'm not sleeping tonight. I'm not sleeping tonight at all. It's not happening. I'm just going to replay, replay, replay. Wow, wow stuff.

How do we get back to Dogman after that? Well, I'll just non-sequit. I'll just jump right back in because something that I want to talk about last, I said I would talk about last time, but I didn't bring up, was, I'm trying to decide, should I do something that's, maybe, you know, I'll do this and then we can end on Alexander the Great House night. Okay, yeah, I mean, we're just going to keep the recording going. So we're going to do the first half we're going to do historical and then what, the second

half we're going to do what? The more Catholic church. Yeah, Catholic Church and centuries. The history of that. Okay, so we're going to do that. That's going to be an overtime, but we're just going to, I don't want to move. Okay, we'll just keep going. I got you.

Jack will split it because, like, this chemistry is great. I don't want to lose it. All right. So, yeah, so them not being lichens, them not being werewolves. So I was assuming, I was like, oh, this is an obvious difference, right? These are creatures that are born, live and die this way. Very different from a person who transforms into one. But apparently, unsurprisingly, I'm not the first person to think of this.

But apparently there are plenty of writings where people who write about the doghead race, the synecphaly. They're like, oh, yeah, but like, werewolves, that's ridiculous. They didn't believe in werewolves. But they did believe. in dog-headed people. They didn't believe in the shape-shifting aspect. I do believe in the shapeshifting aspect for demonic stuff I've seen. But these people didn't.

So this is really interesting because to anyone who's like, oh, well, they're just believing in folklore and fables, actually they're not. They're saying, no, that's ridiculous. This I know to be true, which is fascinating. That's a lot of credibility. So, history is by Herodotus book four. Same book where he talks about, Lysinaephali,

He then goes on to say, these men, it would seem, are wizards. For it is said of them by the Scythians and by the Hellens, the Greeks, who are settled in Scythian, but in the Scythian land, that once in every year, each of the, I don't know how to say this, Niori becomes a wolf for a few days and then returns again to his original form. And then he says, from my part, I do not believe them

when they say this, but nonetheless, they say it and swear it moreover. So this guy who previously was like, oh, yeah, so anyways, there's elephants and lions, dog-headed people,

and then just keeps going, right? He's like, that's normal, doesn't make any comment on it. Then it's like, oh, yeah, these guys claim they can turn into wolves. That's ridiculous.

I don't believe that. So these guys have this sense of, this is obviously true. well that's crazy that couldn't be true you know and it's like what to moderate to us it's like okay we put those in the same category

but for them I'm like no completely different category this is obviously true but a werewolf that's that's crazy similar thing with Pliny the Elder he also talks about it in his book Natural History he's like yeah the sinusencephaly there for sure thing well in this in this section

in Natural History book 8 chapter 34 lines 2 through 4 he says that men have been turned into wolves and again restored to the original form we must confidently look upon as untrue unless indeed we are ready to believe all the tales which for so many ages have been found to be fabulous

but as the belief of it has become so firmly fixed in the minds of the common people as to have caused them the term excuse me the term Verisipelis. Yeah, that's right. That's correct. For sure how it's said. Absolutely.

To be used as a common form of impreaction, I will here point out its origin. And he's just like, oh, they made it up, blah, blah, blah. So that's, again, his claim, guy who believes in the existence of targeted people is like, oh, but that's ridiculous. Why would we believe that people could turn into one? or sometimes

specifically turning into a wolf. City of God this is by St. Augustine book 18 chapter 18 he says indeed we ourselves

when in Italy heard such things about a certain region there where the landlady of inns imbued with these wicked arts were said to have to be in the habit

of giving to such travelers as they chose or could manage something in a piece of cheese by which they were changed on the spot. So they eat the cheese. Change on the spot into beasts of burden and carried whatever was necessary and were restored to their own form when the work was done. Sorry, it's like to get me, guys. Yet their minds did not become beastial but remained rational and human.

just as Appellius in the books he wrote with the title, with the title the Golden Donkey. That was a joke, it's the golden ass. He has told or feigned that it applied to his own self. So it's a little confusing how he's saying this, but he's saying, this other guy, I wrote a book and said that this very thing happened to him, right? On taking poison, he became an ass.

and while retaining his human mind, these things are either false or so extraordinary as to be with good reason disbelief. So this is interesting because he's not completely saying that this cannot be true. Augustine's like either this is just blatantly not true or it's so fantabulous that it's reasonable to think it's untrue.

I'm like, okay, fair enough. And he says, I cannot therefore believe, that even in the body, much less the mind, can really be changed into beastial forms and linements by any reason, art or power of the demons. He was not to say. He just doesn't think that that's a thing. He then says,

the same chapter, these things have not come to us from persons we ought to deem unworthy of credit. So he's like, that being said, these are people we respect who are saying this. Says, but from informants we could not suppose to be deceiving us. Therefore, what men say and have committed to writing about the Arcadians being often changed into wolves by the Arcadian gods or demons rather.

He's like, well, they're demons. And what is told in song about Circe, transforming the companions of Ulysses? So, you know, it's back to Homer. If they really were done, may, in my opinion, have been done in the way that I've said. So basically it's like, okay, okay, I could be wrong. because there are really good, credible people who are saying that this stuff can happen. And then he says, like, this could just be demonic witchcraft.

He's like, seems unlikely, but it could be demonic witchcraft. This is really interesting because he actually brings up Homer as a source. This is one of those things where it's only within the last couple hundred years that we've said, oh, Homer made up stories. According to everyone ever, until recently, not made up stories. modern scholars. Look, they're good modern scholars. I don't want to poo-poo on all of them, right?

But there are plenty of modern scholars in the last 100 years that were like, Troy doesn't exist because Homer made up the stories, so Troy isn't real. Then one dude who wasn't a scholar was like, what if I took this book literally, went exactly where Homer said it was,

and found Troy. It wasn't even hard. He just found it. So the scholars were like, definitely not boots on the ground. Not boots on the ground. And that's where a lot of the stuff comes to come into play is, yes, scholars say this or that.

And they're like, oh, blah, blah, blah. But they're addict scholars that are up there and they're addicts and they're typing where they're reading and they're writing. And, you know, I appreciate that. I mean, that's what more or less I'm doing. Or I've traveled and I've looked into this stuff. But more or less, that's what I'm doing.

The difference here is simply the fact that like I'm doing my best to have an open mind here. And they're looking at this and they're like, well, this couldn't possibly be real. So why even try at all? And I'm going, hey, let's, try at all. Let's look a little bit. What's going on because, you know, for me, it's keeping me up at night. I'm like, I want to

figure out the truth of this situation. That guy had, I forget his name, but that guy had the same reaction. He's like, Troy's probably a thing. So he goes out and he finds it. And now we know that Troy was real. It's like, wait, so then how much of it was real? When you read Plato, you read things about Socrates. Socrates is talking about Homer. And he's saying, oh, yeah, and these things happened. He's quoting it as history. He's not quoting it as a story. And he says, yeah, but some people misinterpret that and they think

that it's the songs that they're singing or like the way that they're singing that somehow the sirens somehow pulls them off the boat. But in reality, they're just singing spells. And it's the spell that pulls them off. So he's talking about like as matter of fact. Yeah, they're just singing spells. Everybody and it's that. Like, it's silly people who think that it's just the sound of their voice. and modern people would be like, excuse me?

Like, what do you mean? Sirens are real and they can, and it's not that they are magical in and of themselves, but that they're performing witchcraft on the fly and speaking spells over these people. This is from Socrates, somebody that everybody, you know, fames is like, oh, yeah, being so logical, so rational, right? And he himself professed that he was a sorcerer. He performed magic all the time.

He talked about fixed elections. using magic, using enchanted amulets and stuff like that. He's like, oh, yeah, I helped that guy get his position in. He literally says this. I'm pretty sure this was memorabilion by Xenophon, quoting Socrates saying, yeah, I helped, what's his name? I forget his name. I helped what's his name get into power by enchanting his amulet or whatever it was.

And yeah, now that everybody in the city loves him. That was magic. Did you hear about recently how the witches were complaining that they were trying to cast spells on Trump leading up to the election. It wasn't working. No way. They're like,

the line from Hercules just keeps going through my head when they're trying to cut the silver cord in the cartoon Hercules and like, what's wrong with these scissors? Like I can just imagine these witches. These witches are like, what's wrong with our spells? Like, why are they bouncing off this man, you know?

Yeah. That's interesting. But, I mean, it's just nothing's new under the sun, right? I mean, it's just repeated history that these things happen. And it's to be taken more serious than what our modern minds have been taught to take serious.

Right. And so, Socrates even said, he said, well, of course I dabble in. Because someone was asked, like, oh, like, do you do magic? He said, well, of course I do.

Any reasonable man of science would. It's like, they viewed it as science. He's like, well, yeah, I'm dutiful. I pray to the gods, right? Like, I have a relationship with the gods, demons, right? He's like, I have relationship with these guys. It's like, I pray.

I perform, you know, witchcraft. How would I be in the higher echelon of society if I wasn't a good mathematician and philosopher and scientist and magician? Like, come on. Wow. It's just what you do. But people remove that. I mean, you can get

this, guys. This isn't a secret. Just buy the books. Buy memorabilia by Xenophon. Zenophon is a general and a historian. Zenophon and played over the two main guys who wrote about Socrates. I was just reading that because I wanted to read it. But I came across it and I was like, what? And there's so much stuff like that. where it's like, this was the world.

The world always recognized magic. The Bible recognized magic all over the place, right? It's like magic has always been real. These crazy creatures that the Bible talks about, that other people talking about, they've always been real. It's always been talked about. And then what happens is, the last couple of years, you get, unfortunately, the ironically named Enlightenment.

And the Enlightenment was really a blinding on everyone's eyes, the eyes of their minds. It was really, and I understand it too. I'm also not trying to be like, oh, I do believe we're in an evil age, but I'm not just trying to be like, oh, it's this person's fault or that's person's fault. It was understandable. We got a whole bunch of wars. That's when we got all these different. We got the industrial revolution.

We had the American Revolution. We had the French Revolution. There were tons of revolutions, tons of wars. Nobody had time to write books anymore about magic and monsters, right? Understandable. But unfortunately, during that period of time, spirituality got ripped out of things because then we included other things like materialism and Darwinism. and all these other things start popping in, that even though all of those were legitimate human efforts

to try to further progress of science, you know, Isaac Newton played into this. They were all just trying to be in line. They were trying to find the truth. But unfortunately, the natural caveat to that, or consequence, rather, was that they ended up going, oh, wait a second, because of Isaac Newton, we don't have to believe that the stars are magical anymore

because we can map them out. We know exactly where it's going to be and when it's going to be there. We started, as we understood things better, disbelieving. Now, what modern scientists would say is like, yeah, see, it proves that it was never magical in the first place.

If it's not magical, why was God literally saying, stop worshipping the stars? I didn't allot them to you. Alot them? What do you mean? This isn't like Deuteronomy for, I think it's like 1st 19 or something.

something like that. It shows up several times in Deuteronomy. I love your brain, man. It shows up several times in Deuteronomy 32, 8, and 9 is kind of like a classic passage that pops up with Michael Heiser and other scholars like him, where they're talking about like God allotting the sons of God over the nations. And when that happens, he's like, no, I allotted those stars. I allotted those angels. I allotted those principalities over these different nations. You're not supposed to be worshipping them. Stop. He's telling that to Israel. And like, wait a minute. Are they supposed to be worshipping them? And the answer technically is no, right?

Because then in Psalm 82, God's like, why are you receiving worship from humans? Stop. Yeah. So he's yelling at everybody. Yeah. It's like, you're old... Slap in everybody's hands. Everybody just stop.

You're altering the wrong thing. But yeah, but he's... In that narrative, like, he's... admitting to the fact that there are these gods over these nations, but they were principalities that he put there in place. Those stars are a thing. There is magic going on there, right?

there's a reason why they're worshipping them, because they're answering their prayers. They were doing stuff. You know, look at Plato and Socrates and how they're talking about, yeah, I pray to Apollo, and then he literally does magic for me. Like, that stuff happens. Even Plato spoke to the concept of the gods being allotted. In his book, Tameyus and Kirtias, he talks about like three or four times. Oh, yeah, when the gods were allotted.

Now, he views it as the gods allotted it amongst themselves. God says, no, I allotted them. I put them there, and then they fell away from me. But Plato is like, oh, yeah, the gods allotted themselves. They took the different regions, and they became, you know, what we refer to in Ephesians, you know, sex is the principalities and powers, right? But he's viewing them as, oh, these are our gods. You know, same old thing.

When you read that, it's like one for one. It's totally lining up with what Moses is talking about in Deuteronomy. Right? It's totally lining up. So when you look at all these dots connect. They all connect. And it's like, yes, we can look at it. things and we can better understand them, but that doesn't somehow make them no longer supernatural.

Just like as we study anatomy, that doesn't suddenly mean I don't have a spirit and a soul. Right? Yeah, I better understand my body because of those things. But I also know that me personally, I have had an out-of-body experience. I've been pulled out of my body, and I know for a fact that my body is not the only part of me. I've had too many supernatural experiences to believe that. You've been pulled out of your body? I was, yeah.

Really? Yeah, by a demon. It was a... So you've said, you've been pulled out of your body, you've been pinned against the wall by a demon. We're over here talking about historical dog, man. I feel like I got a whole episode with you and your experiences too. Yeah, too many to talk about.

But, yeah, I've experienced things all growing up. And I really believe it's because when I was a child, I was possessed before I was saved. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Wow, you're the gift that keeps given, dude. Like, geez.

Yeah, it's a little wild. My life has been nuts, but... And you're only, what, 25, 26? 25. 25? Damn. Yeah. So I had too many experiences growing up where demons would show up.

They would pin me against the wall, pin me against the bed. I couldn't speak. All that sort of stuff would happen. Literally just for years, for years and years and years and years. And it would happen all the time. I just lost count so long ago. But recently, things have been nice. Things have been good.

Since Jesus. Yeah. It's like, well, no, even as a believer is his thing. Because what happens is like before, you know, I wasn't saved. I got saved pretty young. But before I was saved, I would say things and do things I literally was trying not to. I was like, I'm going to go in this room. And my body was like, no.

And I would do something else. For a long time, as a kid, I didn't understand it. It was when I was older that looked back and went, oh, my word, I was literally possessed. Like, that's what that was. Wow. Because as a kid, I was like, why? And I would cry because I was like, why does my body never do what I wanted to do? Why do I not say the things I want to say?

Why do I go in and say, hey, mom, good morning. I come and I said, I hate you. Yeah. Wow. How old were you when that was going on? Like six all the up through seven. We don't even want to look at our children that way. Like I have a kid that's about turn seven.

And I look at him and that that thought, I wouldn't even want to entertain the possibility of that being true. And it's not like it happens all too frequently. For sure. Right? Like I don't want to freak a bunch of parents out. Yeah, I know. They're probably just a bottle.

Probably just being difficult. Jesus Christ, save you. But, you know, but like for me, like I can look back and I can say with certainty because now from having all those demonic experiences, I look back and I go, that was the exact feeling. But I had it. I always had it. It was all the time. It didn't go away. And then when I was saved, I was literally freed from that. It was palpable. All of a sudden, I could control my mind. I could control my thoughts. I could say what I wanted to say. It was, I was literally set free from that. So this is where I'm like, yeah, no, I can't doubt God because. what, what, then what was that? Yeah. What happened, right? You can come up with whatever, but I'm sorry, I don't believe you, because that was my experience. I was me putting my faith in Jesus Christ to save me from that.

Nothing else. And as I went on and had so many different experiences, and I'd have dreams where, like, I'd go to sleep, have a dream, and it wasn't a dream. And I'd see the room, and I would literally see a demon going at my little brother. And I'd be praying, and I'd say, like, in the name of Jesus, like, get the heck out of here. And I would literally fight for my... I don't even think he knows that. Wow. So I don't think I ever told him that one.

But that stuff happened. So, yeah, I know these things are real. And it's, you know, I've seen fun on the topic. It's because I've seen things that are like different sizes. Big ones, like tiny little ones. We've got all sorts of crazy stuff. Demosic? Yeah, yeah.

And like as in the 3D shadow ones. So it was like a 3D shadow in my room. I started asking a question. I'm like, what does that even mean? Like, why do you have... how are you a spirit and yet you have a body, you have a shape and a size. What does that even mean? And then as I started to realize that some of the demons are actually the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim.

And when you dig into it, there were midgets and there were giants. And there were different varieties, shapes and sizes. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And then I have my out of body experience where I'm like pushed out of my body. And I'm wrestling the demon. I'm praying, okay, Jesus, please like handle this for me. And he did. I'm looking down at my body, right?

My body's on the bed. And I'm like, okay, whoa, what's going on? I'm realizing I have the same shape and size. I was, what does that even mean, Tony? I don't know. You have the same shape of what? Of myself. I was my body.

Okay. But I wasn't in my body, but I had a body. You were looking at your body. But I was spirit. What does that even mean? Yeah. I don't know. And so my analytical self just stopped and was like, whoa, this is interesting.

And I was like, looking around and I was like, how is it that I'm interacting with the wall? Why is that a thing? Like, how is it that he's still interacting with me the same? Like, because I didn't even realize I was like literally fist-fiting this thing. I looked down and I'm like, holy, crap, my body's over there, lifeless. And I'm like, what?

And by the way, guys, I was not asleep. I didn't even go to bed. I sat down on my bed and then this happened. So it was like crazy stuff. But anyway, so I'm looking around and like, if that's the kid, whatever this means, I really don't know how all this works. But if I was out of my body and my spirit had the same shape and size, and then I'm seeing these demons with certain shapes and sizes, it's highly likely that was their shape and size.

And then when they died, that's just their spirit. And that's why you end up with little people demons and giant demons. Wow. And all the different, and why I saw a demon with a doghead? Well, that's because his head was a dog. That's logical. I mean, I think that might be what it is. To me, that's logical.

You guys just got the acid trip from... Yeah, no, I love it. Listen, we're going to take another hit of that in the overtime because I'm not going to let this one sit. I'm going to be... I want to hear more about this. And then we'll get back to the Dogman historical, the church, the history of the church with Dogman. But this was, this first part was fantastic. And before we move into the overtime, though, for anybody watching and listening that are not members, let them know, again, your name, where they can find more information so they can reach out to you, flood your inbox, and create lots of headaches.

I had, I had somebody tell me, I think it was actually fringe. For episode 700, she said that she had such a response from our audience that she actually had to turn off the contact section. on her website because she couldn't keep up with the emails. So good luck, buddy. Yeah, thanks. No, I appreciate it though. I really appreciate the support because for me a lot of it was just like, oh, I'm just interested in this and I'm curious.

Yeah. And I had no idea that so many people were like looking for these answers. So like one, thanks for the support. It's huge. I really appreciate it. And two, like it's more than welcome. I probably won't be able to reply to everybody. But, you know, thanks for reaching out.

I actually do appreciate when you guys do that. Yeah, so Seth Vanderbrook is my name. Dogman is my game. I'm sorry. I had to say it. No, I'm sorry, the Bible is my game, not Doc Man. There's those dad jokes I'm telling you about. We were joking earlier. Sorry, my name is Seth Vanderbuk. My website is Project L-EASR.com.

That's where I have a lot of that stuff. I have a very long blog post on Dogman. There's a lot more stuff coming out. and I'm in the works on a book about it. So hopefully maybe a year or two that'll be published. Awesome, man. That's awesome. Well, listen, if anybody's watching and listen right now,

and you want another dose of this acid trip, just headed to the overtime segment. We're going to continue this conversation. I think, Jack, how long have we been going, Jack, three hours, two hours? Two hours. So I'm sure we got another at least half a tank here. So let's just have some fun with that.

and I'll see you guys on the other side. I'm feeling what shocks and love was toxic and I think we're free when we're lost. Yeah, well, I got in while his friends slept. We're just broken pieces to the gold and no missteps. I'm here to break down all your idols ritualistic. If you don't like it, I don't speak in euphemistic terms. The world is run by Charles Montgomery Burns. They keep in it hooded like CERN.

They've done it in thirds before the earth was occurred. And all the friction I'm getting is warranted when your chambers don't echo. The entrance needed for what I'll be. saying don't come from progressive or gecko and why are you popping proscico if you ain't put in in labor i'm taking shots of espresso every second i favor more than the last we never get a return on time loss look the divine laws but people looking they're rapid like tacos with lime sauce hey i never cared too much what they say in matter of fact what i'm saying i'm saying i ain't here to explain it on the levels all they see but they don't see my creator campaign of

politicians for your souls no debate but stop for the necks i'm calling i'm benedict Most of our collars are blue. Most of us can't even afford one. Lining up for new iPhones and Jordans. It ain't our blessings, and we praying for them as fortunes. On others on our socials feeling so important. I'm breaking you down. Ain't here to make you feel comfortable.

Just creating the monsters of hotness. These hills we create for ourselves. Timelines are nothing but selves. Shadows dance, suners at the Mac all in the past.