The Confessionals - 72: The Think Tank with Wes Germer, Timothy Renner, and Dark Waters

Episode Date: June 2, 2018

Tonight, we bring on to the show Wes Germer, Timothy Renner, and Dark Waters. We sat down to discuss oddities in the topics of bigfoot, dogman, demons, UFOs, aliens and more! Patreon: www.patreon.com/TheConfessionals Website: www.theconfessionalspodcast.com Email: [e-mail] Facebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcast Twitter: @TConfessionals Tony's Twitter: @tony_merkel Show Intro INSTRUMENTAL: www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyub39AXxUw Show Intro FREE DOWNLOAD: https://bit.ly/2HxNcw3

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Say 50% on the new Sleep Number 360 limited edition smart bed plus special financing only for a limited time. To find your local sleep number store, go to sleep number.com. Special financing subject to credit approval. Minimum monthly payments required. See store for details. came over to me dude he slithered over to me and this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen and he starts running and firing at this giant with a giant move he's got a spear in one hand

and he's running really fast and spears dan holds him up like this somebody else shoot him in the face shoot him in the face they basically decapitating got closer got closer got closer got closer when he got about 15 yards away to this head off. And there are two. And each up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. It's almost like they're unzippering our reality. They pick their heads through and they look around and if it looks like the coast is clear, they step through the rest of the direction. If you pick the head, you get the whole package.

If you don't take the head off, then what happens is they disappear. This was all circulating around the base that a giant has been killed with no one was supposed to talk about it. close to talk about him. Far side of the room, and there's Jack. And he's got blood on his face. He looks at me, and he just says one word. Oops. He's longer than most people have careers.

He's in this bush, and I touch air. Couldn't breathe, and I couldn't move. Because I know I'm seeing a monster. Welcome to the show, everybody. You are listening to The Confessionals. I am your host, Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here. If you've had an encounter or a story you'd like to share on the show, shoot me an email.

My email address is The Confessionalspodcast at gmail.com. That's the Confessionalspodcast at gmail.com. Or you can go to the Confessionalspodcast.com, hit the connection section and you can reach me that way as well. Either way it works for me. Just get a hold of me. Last week, I gave a shout out to my parents for their 30th wedding anniversary. And this week, I want to give a shout out to my own wife because today, June 2, 2018,

we are celebrating our 11 years of marriage. And I really appreciate my wife putting up with me for 11 years. It means a lot to me, babe. I love you. You've been through a lot with me and you keep on going strong. So I really appreciate that. Now, moving on here, we have the iTunes ratings and reviews shoutouts. If you go to iTunes and leave us a rating and review,

you will get a shout out on the following week's show. And this week's shoutouts is Ragnar CW. Stephen D. Henry and Juan Arusma. Thanks so much for going to iTunes to leave that rating and review. If you want to get a shoutout on next week's show, go to iTunes, leave that rating and review, and I will definitely shout you out on the following week's show. Now, moving on to the Patreon shoutouts. Patreon is a place where people go to help support the show on a monthly basis.

There's a lot of great rewards that come with that, including you get to actually hear these interviews that are on the show live as they happen through video feed. So if that's something that would interest, you go to patreon.com forward slash the confessions. That's patreon.com forward slash the confessions. And there you can see the different rewards and different levels and things like that. But this past week, we had four people sign up to become patrons, Lainey G, Patricia R., Michael J., and Robert C. So thank you very much for becoming patrons. It means a lot to me, and it really does help support the show.

So thanks a lot, guys. And if you want, you can go to Facebook.com forward slash T.B. Merkel. and there you could friend request me on Facebook so I can add any of you patrons to the secret Facebook group. Now, I want to let you guys know, we do have an awesome, awesome, awesome interview coming up today. I had the chance to sit down with Wes Ghermer, Timothy Renner, and Dark Waters, and we sat around and we talked about and discussed different topics when it comes to Bigfoot, Dogman, Nephilim, ghosts, demons, and we just openly thought about what these things are how could they possibly exist? Where did they come from? And we just had a open think tank. And that's what you're

going to get a chance to hear tonight on the show right after this. All right, tonight I have a really cool show for you guys. This is something that I actually been planning for a few weeks. And it's something that kind of came to me as I was listening to a Sasquatch Chronicles episode with Timothy Renner and West Ghermer. And they were talking about how the field of Bigfoot research and how there's not real open honesty when it comes to the researcher aspect of things where they don't really tell you the whole story sometimes because, you know, they have this set mind that, you know, Bigfoot is this one thing and their experiences tell them otherwise, but they don't necessarily want to come out and talk about that because it would throw off their whole theory.

And that's the thing. It's just a theory. So tonight I have a guy who refused to ask me to name his book, Bigfoot in Pennsylvania. Timothy Renner. How you doing, Tim? How's it going? It's going good, man. I got Bigfoot researcher extraordinaire, Wes Germer. How you doing, Wes?

I don't know about the research part, but yeah. You're good. And I got the guy who butt dialed me without my phone number, Dark Waters. How you doing, man? I'm doing all right. How about you, my friend? I'm doing good. I'm doing good.

That last introduction, I want to explain to the audience real quick. Before we dive into tonight's topic, I want to tell the, audience story here on how you and I got connected because it's kind of crazy. It's actually really crazy. So, uh, you know, I listened to, you know, YouTube videos a lot during the day, conspiratorial things and, you know, my mind's always in those gears and stuff. So what happened with us, the first thing I started thinking was like, yo, somebody's messing with me. I was at delivery. Actually, I was picking up some freight. And when Tim, I don't think I told you this, did I? No, I've never heard this. Okay, cool. So somebody here hasn't heard of yet.

I was actually, I was out of pickup and I was picking up some freight. And I got a phone number from a Louisiana number. And I'm like, I don't know that number. And I was thinking, you know, I don't think I gave out my number to anybody down south. So I led to go to voicemail. And they left a voicemail and I continued, you know, loading my truck and everything. And the phone number called back again for a second time. And so I was like, wow, somebody must really need to get a hold of me.

So I answered my phone and I get somebody's voicemail on the, on the other end of my phone. So I answered the phone and I'm hearing somebody's voicemail talk to me. And I didn't catch the beginning, but it was just like, I may not get it back to you, but give me, you know, leave me a message, blah, blah, blah. And then it's over. And I'm thinking, that's really weird. Like I never had that happen before. And then I get a text message from that number saying something like, yo, what's up?

And I'm like, what the heck? And so I'm walking, I'm walking out of this building. And I listen. I start listening to that voicemail. And I, I, I know how it went was I'm walking out of the building and I get a second text message from this number saying, yo, you called me twice. What's up? And I'm thinking myself, what the heck?

I didn't call anybody twice. This never called me twice. And so I started listening to the voicemail. And I hear this voicemail come back saying that, you know, it was, you know, this person on the other end. And I didn't really get, you know, the beginning of it. like I said before. And so I'm about texted, I'm about to text this number back saying, no, man. Actually, I think I did text the number back. I said, no, you called me twice. I didn't call

you. And I sent the message. And just like, I want to say, it had to be 30 seconds after I sent it, the number calls again. So I answered the phone. And on the other end, I hear a person's voice and it says, this is dark waters. Who's this? I'm like, what in the world? Like, Like, what is going on here? And so I told him, I said, no, like you said, you called me twice. I said, no, you called me twice. And I told, you know, DW, the whole story I just shared now. And he's like, yo, that's really weird. We got to connect tonight because I'm busy. I'm working. I'm like, okay. So I hang up the phone with DW and I call Wes because I'm thinking West is playing games with me. Because, you know, the night, it was just the day before West, I think it was.

me and dark water or me and west were talking about dark waters and how i wanted to connect with dark waters and then all of a sudden dark water's voicemail was calling my phone twice and dark waters had the same exact thing happened to him where it was like my phone was calling his and so i thought west gerber was just playing games with me trying to connect us somehow and i even text and was like oh that's real funny ha ha and he's like i don't know what you're talking about and so like i started tripping out and thinking of myself what is going on here as somebody listened to my phone calls playing games with me is it artificial intelligence i don't freaking know what's going on here and so i uh i me and dark waters talked that night we talked for i don't know it was probably had to be at least an hour and

we talk about a bunch of different and we talk we started talking about bigfoot and nephilum and all these different things and uh you know this was after him and i discussed the phone call thing and we couldn't figure it out we're just like i don't know and we're talking about bigfoot a lot and stuff and Nephilim and things like that. And he kind of stops me and he says to me, you know what, I think I figured out what happened with the phone situation. And I'm thinking, all right, so it was like an app glitch, you know, he's got some funky thing with his phone. He probably has like a, you know, a burner phone or something like that that he's like was, you know, wigging out. And he's like, I've been praying that God would show me or send me an answer on some prayers

that I had and stuff and everything that we were talking about. just now was exactly what I was praying for God to, you know, reveal to me. And I was just like, yo, that's trippy. That's trippy. So like my options at this point are either there's some kind of conspiracy that connected us, DW, or God. And I prefer, I prefer God just because it makes me feel more comfortable. So to be clear, neither one of you had the other's phone number at that time.

Right. No, neither one of us had that number. No, I didn't have this phone number saved in my phone at all. Yeah, that's pretty cool. I mean, what are the chances? Right, exactly. I mean, so you're talking about, you know, we have, you have, what, 7 billion people in this world, multiple people, those have multiple phone numbers. And for two phones to glitch at the same time, connect with each other, and for those two numbers to connect is me and DW, that's kind of crazy.

And he didn't know who it was either because he said, you know, he answered the phone as, you know, this is dark waters, whatever. And so we're talking a little bit. I said, yo, do you know who this is? And he's like, no. And I'm like, this is Tony Merkel from the confessionals. And he's like, what? I'm like, yes, dude. Like, this is crazy.

So I thought that was a funny story. I probably didn't tell it as good as Dark Waters would because he's a professional storyteller. So I should have let him tell it. No, you did a good job telling the story, man. The only thing you left out was I actually called you with a bad attitude because I'm like, yo, who is this calling me? back to, like my pet peeves, don't call me back to back.

I'm like, who the hell is calling me twice in a row in the middle of the day? Like, I don't have a life. And so when I call him, yo, yo, who is this? You know, I'm like, I got a bad attitude. And then when you tell me you, I'm like, whoa, okay, hold on. And then you say, well, do you have my number in your phone? Like, no, bro, I don't have any of your information in my phone, bro. I say, I don't have it in my phone.

And he was like, oh, my God. I was like, yeah, we're going to talk this evening, man. We got to figure out what this is about because that was crazy. But I really do believe that with God connecting us for this particular conversation that we're having this roundtable right now. So you can expect me to take off the gloves tonight, baby. Awesome, man. Yeah, I was just baffled by that. And it's one of those stories that I don't think I'll ever forget because it was just so far out there.

I mean, what are the odds, you know, like Tim said. But tonight I wanted to kind of just open up conversation here tonight. And we're just going to be real honest. we don't always have to agree with each other. This isn't, you know, four guys that have the same ideas. I mean, I'm sure we'll agree on a lot of different things. But, you know, if you have a different opinion, feel free to be open and express that. You know, this is just a very open platform think tank here. So I want to just throw out just this idea here with Bigfoot to kind of get things going. And I know, you know, a lot of people that listen to my show do listen to Sasquatch Chronicles. And Wes, you are on, you know, obviously Sasquatch Chronicles hosting this show. You hear. You hear. a lot of people's different encounters and stuff. And one of the things that you hear a lot, and I know you hear a lot because we talk a lot and you even say on the show a lot is that you often talk to people who see this big foot and they also see lights at the same time or around the same time. Could you kind of go into like what people are seeing, how they're drawing

this correlation where they think that it might be related or do you think it might be related or, you know, what do you think about these lights in the woods that people are seeing? Well, first of all, let me say it's an honor to say here with DW, Timothy Renner, and Tony Merkel. I appreciate you guys. I appreciate you guys this time. I've been drinking, so take all that with a grain of salt. No, going back to the lights. Yeah, the lights are something that show up on people's property. A lot of times when people have these things around their property, they'll mention the lights. Now, your average person that runs into a Sasquatch, let's say a hunter, a hiker, somebody who just stumbles across it, rarely will they ever talk about anything strange? Rarely will they ever mention anything odd. I would say, and I would say that's probably 90% of your encounters. And in 90% of your encounters, you will not have anything more than just an animal they ran across. Sometimes they'll describe it as more personlike, but at the end of the day, your average person, person will say it was an animal that ran into. Now, having said that, when you start getting on

people's properties where they have these things running around, that's where you really start to get into some of the weird stuff. That's where you really start getting into people seeing the lights, people experiencing just weird paranormal type stuff on their property. So it's kind of, it's an interesting dichotum between the two, because on one end, you have people. who are running into nothing more than an animal, and then the people have these things on their property, I think I mentioned it one time on a show. 90% of the time, if I mention the lights, people will come forward and say, yeah, I've seen the lights. And they'll even describe them to me before I even get a chance to say anything. They'll say you're talking about the balls of light.

And going back to, and I don't want to take the rest of these guys' time, but going back to the brother's property. for example, that was one moment that really started to change my opinion on what Sasquatch was. Because people have to understand, you've only heard, I think I had the brothers on once or twice, and then I did a follow-up show without them on the show. So the audience only got to hear less than an hour and a half of these guys on the show. But they have to understand, I spent months and months and months of talking to these guys.

and it going from they thought they were apes and they thought they were monkeys to this really weird situation. And I can go into it if you want me to, Tony, but you go into like from where they're just thinking, okay, we got to start killing these monkeys because they're causing trouble on the property to, I don't really know what the hell is going on on this property because, you know, they started talking about lights on the property. they started talking about. They even mentioned cloaking a few times. They had seen these things almost kind of cloak.

And you have to understand, neither one of these brothers wanted to tell me this, because they were so afraid I would just cut them off because I wanted no part of it, which couldn't be further from the truth. I was fascinated by it, and I wanted to hear everything that was going on on this property. But I guess going back to your original theme of the show,

you know, there's many things we could talk about tonight. Why is it that they, and I know Tim and D.W. and even Tony will agree with me on this. Why is it when you walk into an area where these things are at, the forest goes quiet. And I don't mean just quiet. I mean deafening quiet. Like your ears are ringing quiet. And why is it that they seem to avoid trail cams? And why is it? I mean, I got a million questions that just don't add up for this just to be a wild animal. But there's many things. And I know Tim has talked about it. I know DWs talked about it.

You tell me where you want to go with this, and I'm happy to go with you on it. Or if DW or Tim wants to take over, you guys let me know, and I'd be happy to address some of the things. I don't know if I have answers, but I'll be happy to address. Well, let me say this, guys,

when I, and some of the stuff that I've never disclosed, I'll disclose tonight. So some of the conversations that I've had with people from Native American tribes, and some of this stuff because I've been sworn to not retail, but it's kind of like my own personal knowledge,

so I'll tell as much as I can without breaking my word. Some of those conversations are the ones that really get into the really, really odd and crazy things that happen surrounding Bigfoot and Dog Man. And when you start, I mean, I've had conversation with them when they start talking about Stargates and that there are certain times of year where they can actually physically see,

see these creatures and these being come through these stargates. Not only just a dog man or a big foot of saskwash, but other things as well, and that there's times where they would visit these stargates to get prophecies of the future. So I believe that, and again, publicly, I never take this stance. But again, let me harken back to what I said at the beginning of the interview. I really believe that this is where this is a conversation was intended to be had because God wanted me to have it. So I'm just going to kind of take the reins off of some of the things.

I think that what we have going on and to some extent is some interdimensional activities that's going on. Now we start talking about researchers and they're not wanting to actually talk about these extremely weird things. I believe what happens is, and I know,

not believe, I know for a fact what happens in our community, whether it's Bigfoot, dog, man, just in the paranormal community, people kind of have their own little lane. So if you imagine a 20-lane highway, and there's all these vehicles and everybody's got their own lane and they defend that lane,

which is that information highway that they share their information on because it's monetizing is how they make their money. So they don't want vehicles crossing the lanes perpendicular, just destroying everything that they've created and built. So I think that's why we don't get into these topics because if someone wants to come out, and I really wish one of these guys that's from the Native American tribes would come out

really talk about it. If they were to come out and really talk about these things that they typically don't share, it would completely shatter what we know right now about, you know, cryptids. I mean, it really would shatter the existing belief structure around cryptos. So I do believe, and I've said publicly, only because I didn't want to get into this publicly, that I think that they're only flesh and blood creatures, but then I'll say stuff like, well, you know, I kind of believe the spawn of fallen angels and things of that, And it doesn't contradict anything that I'm saying,

but you just have to know the history. You have to know the Native American traditional beliefs where they say that the gods came from the stars and that the gods came down here and they were giants and there were all kinds of things going on on in its plan, especially in North America prior to the floods of North. So I think we have to dig deeper. We really, really want to get to the bottom of it

and get to the truth of what's really going on. But unfortunately, in our industry, people don't want to dig that deep because now it gets out of their control. They're experts on what they know. You know what I'm saying? And it's uncomfortable for them because now if you don't have the answers, how can you get paid? And I'm making sense? You're absolutely making sense.

And Wes, were you going to say something? Yeah, I was going to agree with DW on that. The only problem with what he's saying, what he's saying, the only problem with what you're saying DW is sometimes for me, I don't want to cloud my judgment with my spirituality. You know what I mean? I don't want to, and that seems like an odd statement to make, but I don't want to cloud my judgment with what's going on right now with what I believe in the past.

I don't know if that makes any sense or not. Even though I'm starting to feel like they're tied together, my spirituality and what I'm hearing now, I feel like there's a huge tie to it. for me, I guess I'm still at the stage where I try and back off a little bit and I don't want to cloud my judgment with, you know, because it all comes down to beliefs, right? I can't prove anything to anyone. I can go and say, I mean, I could tell you, I can go into all kinds of things right now if you want me to. But the problem with that is I can't prove anything. But I, and it sounds like I'm disagreeing with DW and I'm really not. I think he's, he's on with what he's saying. But for me, right now I'm trying to separate those two things and trying to come up with an answer for it. But sometimes that's hard to do. You know what I mean, DW? No, no, I understand what you're saying. What you're saying is, and I think that's where we have to understand that you can't separate the past, which is there's well-documented things in

the past. You really can't separate the past from what's currently going on in the future. So there's no way to separate them. But I understand what you're saying. saying. When I mentioned Nephilim and fallen angels and there's two thoughts on that. Some people say that fallen angels were actually the alien. Some people say that fallen

angels were actually really angels created by God. That's not so much the point. What we're doing is we chunk down a little bit level below that. Somehow, some way there are creatures that exist currently

on this planet that are documented back going throughout history and going throughout time. That documentation has been there. We know that for a fact. So we got to figure out where they came from and what the relation to where they came from has to do with lights, UFOs,

what people call Stargates and things of that nature. And so that's what I was opening the can of arms on. So I just ripped the Band-Aid off of it really, really quickly because we were talking about the lights. And I've heard people who told me stories and talked about the lights. and it's perfectly consistent with what Wes has said. If they're in the woods, they're a hunter,

they're not talking about lights. It's typically on people's property where there's this visitation where they're talking about these lights in the woods and these orbs. But just a hunter walking through the woods, they're running the big foot or they're running the dog man, and it's typically trying to run them out of there.

So Wes, we're saying the same thing, essentially. I might have just ripped the band-aid off really, really fast. You know what I'm saying? No, you did hear, brother. that there is something to what you're saying. I think that there is a connection between the past and now. The problem is trying to convince the audience that's the case. And there is a lot of things that I want to say publicly, but I want to be very careful saying publicly because I want to make sure I have all my ducks lined up. But I think you and I, and you and I have talked in the

past DW. I think you and I are on the same page and a lot of things. I didn't mean to cut you up, Tim. Oh, no, I just want to say, I don't so much disagree with what DW was saying. I just want to add to it and say, I don't know if it's always 100% money. Some of these researchers desperately want to be seen as scientists. And they know that so-called real science, you know, will never take them seriously if they talk about the weird stuff. So they desperately want that, like, official cryptozoologist title behind their name. And they want to talk about footprints and hair, and that's it. and when you start talking about the weird stuff, they get very prickly.

And as I said on Wes's show, I've actually gotten emails like telling me, don't talk about that stuff. You make us look like idiots, you know, and to which I say, I talk about witnesses C. That's what I talk about. Yeah, Tim, you're absolutely right. I mean, we're all out here talking about dog man or, you know, most people would call it a werewolf, you know, but we, you know, in this community we say dogman, but people are like, do you mean a werewolf?

Yeah, sure. So we're talking about dog man, big foot, UFOs, aliens, ghosts, you know, deep underground military bases. I mean, like, let's just be honest here. I mean, the scientific community probably looks at all of us like a joke anyway. Right. Yeah. It's just, it's kind of, it's petty nature and nature on its own for these people to act like that. And, you know, it's funny because I have a group called Pennsylvania Sasquatch research. And I so wish I could rename it because I made that group in like 2015 when I first started

looking into the Bigfoot stuff openly online and stuff. And I joined these communities. And I realized probably about two years ago, is that I'm not a researcher as much as I'm an investigator because that's what I do. Like if I go out doing anything, I'm just walking around the woods and seeing what happens. Like I don't really do anything. I'm not collecting samples. And, you know, I found a print once and I didn't know what to do with it. And I jacked up that thing with the cast. I'm far from research, you know? Yeah, yeah. Well, for me, it's, it's investigation and experience. You know, I put myself out there and I, because I just kind of want to see what's going on. I don't know if I'm, I don't think I'll solve it. That's the frustrating thing.

This has been a puzzle that's been out there for thousands of years and we haven't had an answer yet. It'd be great if we got one. I'd love it. But I don't have a lot of confidence that we're going to, we're going to have an answer in our lifetime as sorry as that sounds yeah i i absolutely agree with you and that's why i don't stress about it like i'm not racing against the clock for what because i'm i'm fairly confident i'm going to die not knowing much more than i have already so like i'm not really stressing about you know getting involved in any kind of race to prove whatever and get some fame or anything like that uh you know it's just it is what it is you know i i saw these lights before that we were mentioned before.

I actually personally saw, it wasn't lights. I was in Salt Fork State Park in Ohio at my first Bigfoot conference. Me, Dave Groves, and Scott and Brian, I won't say the last thing because I don't have their permission.

I know Dave doesn't care. But we're out in the woods and we're walking this real thin trail on a hill. So we're walking sideways on the hill. So to my left is a steep embankment that goes down to a creek and to my right is a very steep hill going up. And I look up at the canopy that's above my head and I see this light. It's not moving.

It's just sitting steady on the inside of the canopy. It wasn't being blocked by any leaves or anything like that. And it was just pulsating in and out, in and out very slowly. And it wasn't moving, nothing. And then I said to the guys, I said, you guys see that? And I think a couple of them saw it and a couple of them didn't see it. I know at least one of the guys saw it. and we're watching this thing and all of a sudden it just pulsates out and goes away.

Not once did I feel creeped out. Not once did I think Bigfoot. But I was like, wow, there's the lights people are talking about. Now, is that the same kind of lights that other people talk about? No, because, you know, I've heard people talking about these lights moving around, you know, coming out of the woods. And it's like, it's very interactive. What I saw wasn't moving around.

It wasn't interactive. It's just kind of pulsating. And then it was gone. And I wouldn't say it was a UFO. it was on the inside of the canopy and it didn't look very big. They're out there. I mean, that doesn't sound unlike what I was talking about,

although there were multiples, you know? What color was it? It was different colors. I know there's white, red, it was like a white, reddish hue. You know, like it's hard to describe.

Like, I don't want to say the colors of the rainbow because that sounds corny, but it was just like that just like a mixture of colors. But I remember seeing like a like a white and red. like hue. So it was one light that was changing colors, not multiple lights. Yeah, yeah. But it almost seemed like, like when it would open up, like when it brightened up, it

would change in color. I'm trying to remember, but I feel like when it would lighten up, it would become more of like a white light. And then when it would dim down, it would become more like a reddish light. It was very, it was very odd. And you know what? I just, just today I was talking to one of the guys that. that was there and he just had an experience out in the now listen to this guys uh he wanted to

talk to me tonight and i told him i was going to be doing this interview uh so i'll be talking to him after we do this recording unfortunately but what i know is that he was out in the woods with a bunch of other guys uh and they saw these red lights in the sky or in the woods or something like that he winds up seeing these colors like it i wouldn't say it was lights it was like uh he sent me two pictures that he said these two pictures resemble what we saw, but they were kind of mixed together. And it was like a, the best I can describe it is like almost like a mist, but I don't know if it was a mist. I don't know if he would describe it as a mist. We haven't talked yet. But it was like this thing. And he said that it became like a vortex. And I think that there was that he said that

they saw some kind of face in this vortex. And he actually didn't tell me that. I was actually talking to another guy that was there tonight. And he, he, he said, he said, he. He said, he, he said, he, he said, he, he told me that. So it's just, it's crazy that what they saw and I'm really excited to actually have him, you know, talk to me about and stuff. But that's just another instance of something really far off happening in the woods. And it's like, why? You know, like I've had show, I have shows where people talk about this one guy, he's a hunter and he's in the woods. And he talks about how he's there hunting. He's in his tree stand. And he literally sees this church appear in the middle of nowhere in the woods. He's looking at it for like 20 minutes and then disappears. Like, why is that?

Like, what makes these kind of things happen? You know, is it time slips? I don't know. But it's just very, very odd. Well, fellas, we're going to take a break right now. And when we come back, we'll get right back into it. So just stick with us, everybody. Hey, everybody. Hey everybody. This is T.J. Shmari from Austria. And you are listening to the Confessionals with Tony. This Nephilim type aspect of things. I, Wes, I know you were talking about how, like, you're trying to be careful with how you mix your thoughts together and things like that. I'm probably a little less careful than you are. I kind of just kind of go with things.

But I'll tell you, like, one of the things that kind of really, I started really thinking about is the fact that are these things that people are seeing remnant of some type of Nephilim biblical creature? I, you know, most people that listen to my show know that I'm a Christian. And so I tend to be more theologically minded when it comes to these things. one of the things that I didn't do most of my life is venture into texts that were outside the Bible, extra canonical texts. And when you actually look at some of these texts that were found with the Dead Sea Scrolls,

a lot of these things were in pieces. And some of them were full. But what I'm referring to is the Book of Giants. The Book of Giants was found and it was found in pieces. It's not a complete manuscript. But within that manuscript, what they piece together, I have it pulled up here. What I'm about to read to you guys is from the book of giants, but it's going to sound really choppy because it's in pieces.

So you're going to have to kind of put things together here, but you'll get the picture, I think. It says 200 donkeys, 200 asses, 200 rams, free flock, 200 goats, 200 beasts of the field from every animal, from every bird. for miscegenation. And what it's referring to without going reading this whole book, it's talking about what happened in Genesis 6, verse 4. In Genesis 6, verse 4, talks about the fallen angels coming and having sex with women of the earth, their offspring, known as the Nephilim, these giant creatures. What it's talking about here is these things doing that with animals. And when you keep reading here, it says, they defiled the, they defiled blank, blank, blank.

They begot giants and monsters. They begot and beheld all the earth was corrupt with its blood and by the hand of giants, which did not suffice for them. And they were seeking to devour many. The monsters attacked it. Now that, that's with a lot of blanks. What I just read you, there's a lot of blanks to fill in. there because it's in pieces. But that's from the book of giants. Now, I know there's a lot of

Christians out there that, and I was, you know, I was kind of, I wasn't told not to read these books, but it's just this idea you don't read these things. It's not the Bible. You don't read it. And I think that's really, I think it's kind of nonsense. So when you read this and you apply it to the Genesis 6 narrative, it kind of draws more of a picture of what's going on here today when we see these cryptives. If you want to go that route. Not a lot. Not a lot. everybody wants to go that route and that's fine. But I do tend to think that if the fallen angels did this with women and the book of giants is drawing a more broader picture as to what was going on, not just with women, but with animals and plants and things like that, it makes me wonder,

are what people seeing remnant of what happened back then? And if that's true, would they hold supernatural capabilities like their fathers had? Fallen angels have. Fallen angels have. supernatural capabilities. And I just wonder, is that what we're dealing with? I throw it all out there to you guys. Who wants to go first and deal with what I just spit at you? If you don't mind, I'll interject here. And before I say anything, let me say this.

I know that this conversation may be uncomfortable for some people. And that's fine. But at the same time, I think the conversation is a conversation that should be had. And so I'll just throw it out there. So when you look in the story of Noah in the Bible, when you go back and read the Bible, it says that, and you know, you're talking about the apocrypha, which is all the books that were excluded, which is what the book of giants comes from. When you look at the story of Noah, the reason why Noah was put on the art is because it said that Noah was perfect in all his generations. And that was the days and times when giants roamed the earth, which means that the human genome, the human genetics and the genetics of everything on the top. planet had been corrupted if we're following the same vein by what you were called the

Seas of the Fallen Angels. So that's why the earth was flooded because of this one particular thing. Now when you go back and you look across Native American legends, they account the great flood. And in their legends, they're talking about giants that they call cloud eaters and flesh-eating giants that were drowned and they were driven up mountains. and eventually they drowned. And so it's consistent across pretty much every religion

that there was a great flood. And across all those religions, that great flood was destroying things that were pretty much unnatural. So I think that there has to be some truth to what happened. And then we know that after those floods, we can account for that there were still some of these giant creatures and beings on the planet. So I think there's some truth there.

Me personally, I think there's a lot of truth there, and I think there's a lot of answers there. But the only problem that we run into is it gets into, when you start talking about the text of the Bible and the historical nature of the Bible, people conflate that with, like, personal belief, right? And so we're afraid to say, oh, I'm a Christian on this, on that, and then use the Bible as historical text. Because then someone will say, oh, well, you're conflating it with all that Christianity. if you read the book, just read the book as a historical text. It accounts for a lot of these different things. And then you compare it to, I personally compare it to the stories I've been told by several of the Native American tribes, and it's all there and it's all consistent.

So I personally believe is maybe that is where some of this stuff comes from, or maybe that's where some of the stuff harkens back to. And if that is the case, then I bet they would have some kind of supernatural powers and or abilities. You know what I'm saying? It would make sense that they have some supernatural power and or ability. Yeah. Now, Tim, you know, I, Tim, when I look at you and I look at the work that you do and things like that, you are, I don't know if you want to be called this or not, but I would call you kind of like a historian when it comes to, at least in America, finding the archives of reports of these things from way back and things like that.

Now, what I just threw out there, what Dark Waters just said, what do you think, first of all, what do you think about that? And also, you know, do you ever find deep into the records of these things when you're doing your research, do you ever find these types of instances where, like, it just seems like what people are seeing is more paranormal, supernatural, however you want to call it, than physical? Well, a lot of the articles are very short. You know what I mean? So they're giving you who, what, when, where, how, real quick. So, but I do find, like, I, and I always put them in the book, like, I found a couple accounts of people talking about Will the Whits. And then there was one really intense one in the Pennsylvania book, where these people saw Will the Whits, they were in a carriage. And then they said, very specifically, something jumped on the horse.

And then the horse panicked. And it was a very tragic thing. A woman got kind of bound up in the wheel of the carriage and died and was drugged for several miles. It was very kind of brutal thing. So there are these stories, and there's one in the California book, two separate stories. One separate story, and then another story that augments it. And it talks about them seeing wild men or guerrillas, I forget, which they called him in this story. And then it says, boy, and they're seeing these meteors at the same time.

Now, of course, they didn't know what UFOs were. This is the 1800s, you know. So when they say meteors, did they mean meteor? Did they mean, you know, shooting stars? Or were they talking about something like a UFO that were seeing at the same time? So you do get these little, you know, things that pop up. I call them checklists. You know, you get these weird things that pop up.

Not as often as in modern reports. But again, like West was saying, most of these, old reports are hunters in the woods. You don't get a ton of the old reports where people are talking about them consistently coming on their property and so forth. Yeah, I think going back to what you were saying earlier, Tony, with the Book of Giants. And I mean, we could almost do a whole show on this. The reason why the Book of Giants is so scattered the way it is, when they found it in the Dead Sea Scrolls, what ended up happening was they were paying the shepherds for each piece that they brought in.

So what are you going to do as a shepherd? You're going to bring in a big piece or you're going to break it up into eight pieces and bring it in and get paid for it? So they were getting paid for pieces of it. But even if you go into some of these apocrypha texts like DW was mentioning earlier, for example, the book of Jaster. If you're a Christian, the book of Jaspers mentioned two or three times in the Bible, directly mentioned by John in the Bible. And if you really start looking at the history, I don't think we're seeing anything new today that we haven't seen in the past. Here's me clouding my judgment with what people are seeing. I don't think there's anything new we're seeing today that we haven't seen in the past.

You'll see, for example, like we call them UFOs today. Well, back in the day, they called them ferries. And they flew around in flying machines, and they kidnapped people and did experiments on them, then dropped them off, and there was time that was gone. But they called them fairies. And so today we call them UFOs. And so there's not a lot in the past that we don't see. today. And what's interesting is if you go into like the Greeks, for example, the Greeks,

the Greeks had a lot of strange creatures out there. They had the Minotaur, for example. What the hell is a minotaur? And you go through, go Google one, go Google if you ever get a chance of Greek monsters and just go down the list on what they had. And if you're telling me that's not a scientist, a scientific experiment gone wrong on some of these creatures. The Greeks talked about there's something wrong with you. But the Greeks didn't just come up with that idea. They stole it from the Egyptians, which stole it from the Samarians. And the Samarians date back, we're talking pre-flood after the flood, and they had these stories. And so you start seeing these freaks of nature pop up in the past, and we're seeing the same thing today. I think some of

them can be very physical. I think a lot of them can be physical, but are really not physical. I think are entities. For example, dogmen. I do not believe, for one instance, dog man is a natural creature. I think it's an entity people run into, and I think, because you'll see the same type of behavior. It's sure funny when you take a demonic encounter and compare it to a dog man encounter, they kind of sound like the same thing. They have the same type of behavior, following people home, being focused in on one person, having complete interest in on one person. And so, So it makes you wonder, where does Sasquatch come from? I can tell you what me and Woody ran into, if I were to strip away the ape and everything

else and you just wanted to get down to brass tacks, it was a giant. We ran into a giant. And I think of, again, I don't like to go too much into spirituality, but, you know, like when the Israelites were going into Canaan, what did they say? We felt like grasshoppers. We walked in. They ran into the Nephilim down there, and they felt like. like grasshoppers.

And that's post-flood. And that was post-flood. Yeah, and it said, and the Bible tells you it would be post-flug. They'd show up again. And just like in the days of Noah, it'll be the same way towards the end of times. And what's interesting is you start running into some of these weird creatures, and you start running into some of the weird abilities that they seem to have, but it's not constant.

You know, and the other thing that's fascinating, too, is you don't have many people run into where they've been surrounded by these creatures fall down, start praying, and then the creatures leave. Now you can call one of those... And they leave, yep. Yeah, and they leave. So you can call one of those, well, that's a coincidence. Two times you can say, well, that's a coincidence.

I probably heard that a dozen times. And every single time they leave. Now, why is that? Why is it that they leave? If it's nothing more than just a wild animal we have not been able to catch up with, I'm telling you, there's 100 questions I have for you that no one can answer. because there's too many strange things that happen not only with Dogman, which I firmly believe is nothing more than a demonic entity, or if you want to take demonic out of there, we can just call

it an entity. But with Sasquatch, there is so many weird things that happen with Sasquatch, and we haven't been able to catch up with it. Now, you might look at it and go with a small mind and go, well, here in the United States, we haven't been able to catch up with it. They haven't caught up with it in Australia. They haven't caught up with it in China. They haven't caught up with it in Russia. What's going on here? You know what I mean? And so I guess I'm going off on a tangent. Sorry, fellas. No, that kind of, West, that kind of goes into this idea of the abnormally type side of this thing. And dark waters kind of hit on it before with the portals and things are the, I think you called it portals. No, you said Stargate. That's what it was. You said earlier that you, you

know, that you were talking to people and they're talking about the Stargate thing. DW, that's not the first time that I've heard that myself. There's a, you know, a guy who really dives into the whole idea of the Nephlam giants out of the Bible. And I've listened to his stuff because he's done a lot of research on it. His name's Steve Coyle. And he has said himself that him, a guy named Timothy Alberino and Tom Horn, they went and they interviewed the Navajo tribe.

I forget where it was. but it was a, I remember them saying it was a Navajo tribe. And the elders of that tribe took them to, I think he said, they took them to a location where they got to meet with like all the elders. And they're getting to know these people and stuff and spending time with them. And it got to the point where they got comfortable enough. And the one elder, I think he said that he, this was, this guy was more just, you know, he was old and he just was kind of worn down because it seemed like this guy was just like,

just tell him. and that's kind of like what he said. And they started talking about dealing with this Stargate that they go to. Now, Timothy Alborino and Steve Quayle and Tom Horn, I don't think they were taken to this location, but they all were corroborating a story of how they go to a Stargate and they do things there and things come through. And that kind of makes you think,

if this Stargate thing is really going on, if people are actually seeing these things and experiencing these things, Maybe that's why we're seeing footprints that just seem to disappear. You're following a track. You see a nice, solid track, and all of a sudden it's gone. Or you see one footprint, and that's it. I make more than one footprint when I walk. I don't know about you guys, but it's weird.

And so, I mean, maybe the Stargate kind of thing, the vortex portal kind of thing, maybe there's something to that when it comes to these things. I don't know. I mean, Tim, what do you think? I mean, you hear us talking about these portals and vortexes and things. things like that. I mean, have you come across these different stories? What do you think about these things? Oh, sure. I mean, I can, if we have time and you want, I can tell you about a very recent investigation I was on that pretty much checks all the boxes as Wes was talking about earlier.

This is a show where people tell stories. So go ahead. All right. So first of all, the portals and vortex and stuff, it's a possibility. That's all I can say. I, I won't weigh in on it because I don't know for sure, but I keep an open mind. I certainly think it's an absolute possibility. Like when people say they're dimensional creatures, it's a possibility. It would explain a lot. It would explain a whole lot like you were saying with the disappearing footprints and stuff. The investigation I was speaking of, I got a call.

It was two weeks ago. Guy said very tentatively, he found me somewhere. I don't know exactly where he found me. He and his wife had my first book. And he called me and he said, I saw Bigfoot maybe. And I said, okay. And where was it?

He says, it was on my property. So I said, well, are you going to be around tomorrow? He said, yeah. I said, I'll, you know, I'll be there. So I drove up to meet him. And he said, first of all, he was worried. I thought I think he was crazy. I said, no, man, I don't think you're crazy.

I take a lot of these reports. I wouldn't write about this if I didn't believe people. And he said, okay, in that case, it was Bigfoot. And I said, okay. And he saw two adults. and two young ones, two small ones, they were quadrupedal, the adults were standing upright. He goes out every night to spot for deer with a spotlight in his yard.

He lives in a rural area. And he was spotting for deer and he caught their eyeshine. And it was across a pond. He hadn't been over there since he saw them. So I walked over there and I was holding up my walking stick, you know, just to get the height. They were between eight and ten feet tall, probably around nine feet tall from when they were standing. very interesting thing to me and this gets in a weird thing

because the story I have about finding the skull that one day right where he told me to stop where he saw them I looked down and there was a perfectly clean deer skull laying right there which is something that I personally keep running into whenever I'm out

on these investigations I keep finding clean skulls left for me that might be a little woo but it's just I'm just noting these things I find them every time I go out but anyway so you know kind of get the measurements

and I'm doing all the the sort of ape in the woods stuff I'm looking for tree breaks and stuff in the woods around it and any kind of tracks and prints and stuff I didn't find any

I found a would look like stuff beat down like something very big had walked through there but you know I couldn't say 100% sure what there was some trees

with bark stripped off it looked like something had been going after grubs but again inconclusive anyway I walk back I'm talking to the guy some more

and he says you know this place is haunted and I said oh is it so yeah yeah my house is haunted and he's like I can show you some pictures if you want to say yeah I'd love to see him and he starts showing me films of orbs and he's filmed orbs on his property multiple times flying around his wife flying around him just flying across his property so here we have the orbs and then he says I actually have photos of entities if you want to see him and I said yeah I'll look at you know I'll look at anything and he starts showing me these pictures of what he's calling ghosts well the first thing first one he showed me was a female entity that he took a picture of in the mirror and she was wearing white

and this dude is not a big foot guy he was he was into ghost research he kept saying this is all ghost stuff um this he hadn't heard none of this stuff i've been doing a lot actually since west had on the two brothers i've been tracking down a lot of stories are these women in white associated with Bigfoot sightings, these weird women in white, like the two brothers report on their property. I found a historical report in the 1800s of one. I've taken several in the area. It's actually something I try to ask people without asking them directly.

So I said, now how would you describe that figure in that mirror? And he said, well, it's a woman. I said, yeah, but I mean, like, would you give me any details? Well, it turns out in the ghost hunting world, the woman in white thing is so common that they never like to see, say I saw a woman in white, because I guess it's the most common ghost thing. So for a ghost hunter, they never want to say that because it's what everybody says they see. I say, however, there's probably a reason why everybody says that's what they see.

There's probably something to that. But anyway, he goes on to tell me that he's getting thumps on the side of his house. He's getting footsteps on his roof. And again, he's, I'm not saying anything about Bigfoot at this point. He's attributing all of this to ghost activity. And then he starts showing me the pictures of the ghosts. And he says, look at this, look, you see that face there? That guy's wearing sunglasses.

And to me, didn't look like a guy wearing sunglasses all, looked like a big hairy, ape-like guy with great big black eyes. And he's showing me picture after picture of these ghosts. And to me, everyone looked like a big foot. Now, he was just seeing people's faces in him. But what I saw in every one of these entity pictures looked like a big foot. He sent me two more the other night. He texted him to me.

look like two Bigfoot staring through the trees. Very ghostly, you know, the very typical kind of ghosts, like you'd see like somebody took a picture of a ghost in Gettysburg or something, that kind of misty look. But the faces all look like Bigfoot to me. And again,

he's reporting all this weird stuff that he's attributing to ghosts that's happening. And he's seeing Bigfoot on his property. So it's like a checklist of the stuff West was saying before. Yeah. You know, and it's funny because I just had a guy on Facebook. I posted something about demonic. encounters. It was actually somebody who emailed me and she said that my husband sees demons and she sent

sent me this long email and I put it on my website as a blog post and I shared it on social media, Facebook and things like that. And I had this one guy say to me, uh, I don't believe in demons. There's no such thing or something like that. He didn't say it to me, but he commented in it. And the funny thing is this guy is very much involved in, you know, hunting down Bigfoot and things like that, but it doesn't want to tie anything together. You know what I mean? I'm not saying Bigfoot is a demon. I'm just saying like there's two different categories that you're discussing here. And you have people who don't want to tie these these stories together. And like what you just said, I mean, what you saw looked like a Sasquatch. And it's like, how is that possible? How is that

possible if this is actually just a physical creature out in the woods? Well, and we've talked about this before too. When people report they're out in the woods and they hear screams and they hear knocking and they smell something bad. This is poltergeist activity. If that's in your house, that's poltergeist activity. Even in people's houses, if you read poltergeist accounts, tons and tons of accounts of people's having stones thrown in their house, they pick them up, they're warm, just like Sasquatch encounters, exactly like Sasquatch encounters. To the point where I half wonder if what people aren't experiencing, when they don't see a creature, they're experiencing all this other stuff in the woods, is it not like a poltergeist? Screams, weird talking. All this stuff

happens with poltergeist activities. There's too much in common to just throw it out and say they can't be related. No, I absolutely agree with you. I absolutely agree with you. And I think that they're not the same thing like Dogman and Bigfoot. It's not the same thing. But it's definitely, there's a lot of similarities between these different things. For instance, DW, I think I told you this story before.

I don't think I told you, Tim. But I heard this, I was listening to a radio show. and this guy calls in, and they're talking about, you know, weird topics. And this guy calls in and he starts sharing this story of how he has been plagued with these demonic encounters, a lot of his life. And he was going through one of these things where he, him and his wife, they were not in a good relationship at the time. They were really not doing well. But there's, you know, they're still sleeping in the same room and things like that. they just got done arguing he lays down in his bed and he starts seeing like these shapes appear on

the wall like these color i think he said they're like lights or shape or colored shapes like you know just weird shapes showing up on his wall at the foot of his bed and he asks his wife if she sees this and she's like yeah yeah i see that and then they he said they saw these eyes appear in the middle of these shapes and he said at that time he felt this like inner voice tell him that he needed to look to his left. And so he looks to his left to see a dog standing in his bedroom. He said it was about five feet high. So he didn't say it was on four feet or two feet, but he said it was about five feet tall. And there was a dog staring at him. And the only thing he could do was he prayed. He asked for help. And it was, it was,

went away. Dark Waters, have you ever heard of such stories when it comes to dog man? Something similar to that where people kind of had this more paranormal side of a story when it comes to dogman and even, you know, asking Jesus to get rid of it and it goes away. I got one way, way more crazy than that. And I did this one a while ago about a gentleman who lived here in New Orleans. He was a bartender. His dad died and he moved back to me. Mississippi because his life fell apart here. And the third night he was at his dad's property and cleaning up, he ended up listening to one of the pastors.

I can't remember the pastor's name. It was one of the black pastors out of this. I think it was like TDJ to somebody. Anyway, he's literally sitting on a porch outside of Gulfport, Mississippi, listening to this pastor pray while he's sitting on the porch and it gets dark outside. and he gets this crazy feeling that something's across from him watching him across the roadway. And there's no whole bunch of street lights and none of that kind of stuff out there. He's pretty much off in the woods.

But he gets that feeling that something's watching it. And he clicks the little, you know how you have your little alarm button on your car that locks your doors and it illuminates your headlights and your tail lights. clicks that light, the tail lights come on on the car, and he sees the dog man standing across the dirt road that he, from the house. But the dog man is just kind of standing there looking at him. And the lights go out, he freaks out, he hit it one more time, and he sees it again. And he's like, okay, I'm going in the house.

He goes into the house. And while he's in the house, he starts praying. And something tells him to turn up, preacher preaching, and open a door. and look out the window. And he turned up the sermon, opened the front door, and looked out of the window, and the dog man was literally walking away

into the woods with one hand covering one of his ears. And when he first told me that story, I was like, bro, I think you're lying to me. And this was the one time where I told somebody that I thought they were lying, because I never used the word lie when I'm talking to someone. He was like, bro, I think you're lying to me. He's like, you know, I swear,

my father's grave and I'm not lying to him. So we talk about seven more times. I go through the story seven more times. It gets a little bit more detail, but nothing actually changes in a story other than he describes things that I make him chunk down more. And this guy experienced that. And he experienced it. And it actually, that experience changed his life.

I mean, it really did change his life. His life has gotten better since he's had that experience, just because he realizes that there's a. certain amount of power in praying. So, yeah, I've heard stories multiple times where people have experienced the dog man. And I think I'm going to go ahead and jump on the same board with Wes and start calling into entity because there's no, it makes absolutely no sense that a wild animal would be rebuked by, well, actually it does.

It kind of makes sense that a wild animal would be rebuked by prayer. But, I mean, it's just, it seems like the. prayer rebukes them. That's like that other story I told you about the gentleman who was sitting on the sofa in his house and his son was playing in the backyard. And if you can imagine for a second, you're sitting on your sofa and if you look to your left, you can look out of your back door into the yard. And his son's playing in the backyard. He sees what looks like a gigantic wolf in the tree line looking at his son play. He gets up, runs outside, grabs his son, drags his son back into the house, slams the door. And then what he described to me,

was the head of this thing pushing through the door. Not like breaking through the door, but like pushing through the door, like spiritual, like you would imagine a ghost coming in a door, the door creaking but not breaking, penetrating the door. And he prayed and it went away.

So there have been multiple stories where people prayed and the entity went away. So I think I'm going to have to change my stance on and go to entity because you can't really, gate those experiences. You just can't. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's just take a break right now.

And when we come back, we're going to kind of bring this show in for a landing on the last third of this hour and a half episode. I've been on my own. I'm trying to try to find my way home. Hello, this is Forrest and Scott from astonishing legends. And when we're not hunting down ghosts, scripteds, and mysteries, we're listening to the Confessionals.

with Tony Merkel. It's just one of those things where we, you know, you go into this field of Bigfoot Dogman and you're thinking one thing. And then when you hear so many different people's stories, all of a sudden you're like, I know every single one of you had across his path. I know I did. Like you were so confused because at one point we all started out thinking we pretty much know what this is.

You know, like, if it's there, it's got to be this kind of. But when you start hearing so many different stories of different people's experiences, all of a sudden, you find yourself in a situation where you're straight up confused. I spent about, I would say, a good year of my life walking around with these topics in my head thinking, like not knowing what to think about it, just straight up confused because I hear so many what I thought was conflicting stories. But once I got outside the box of boxing this thing into one particular category in my mind, I let myself just, just hear people's stories and accept them for what they are. And that's when I think I started turning a corner where, not that I figured this out. I'm never going to figure that, but I'm more comfortable, I guess I could say, hearing all these different stories because I just come to the conclusion that, yeah, I don't know. I just don't know. I don't know what this is.

It's crazy. It's weird. And all I know is we got to talk about it. And so that's what I respect about all three of you guys is that, you know, you're coming forward just to talk. about it. Like, there's no ego here. There's no, we don't care about that. We just want to talk about what people are saying they see because there's not enough people out there allowing people to talk about this stuff. I got a friend here in Pennsylvania who he had a big foot encounter, kind of got him into this kind of stuff. And since then, he's had so many different experiences out in the woods. In fact, he was actually with the guy I was mentioning earlier about the whole vortex thing, but he wasn't there at that time. Him and his wife had left. He was actually,

that before that happened. But when they're out in the woods and stuff, they experience so many different types of things. They were out in the woods one time with a recorder, some kind of weird recording box. It's a very expensive thing. I think he inherited it or something, but it's like $1,500. It's a very expensive thing. If you just want to buy it, I forget what it's called, but they're asking, what you do is you ask questions and then through a certain frequency, voices come through this box. And it's very, I can't describe it perfectly, but most people have seen what I'm talking about on TV and things like that.

They call them either ghost boxes or there's another name for it. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Ghostbox. So, you know, he's out there with a bunch of guys and they're asking questions. And one of the questions they asked it was how many Bigfoot are in these woods?

And they're in the Allegheny National Forest. And this is actually, let me rewind. The first thing that they came across was they asked, where are we? And a voice came through and said, Allegheny. And if you listen to my show in the past, I've covered this actual recording on the show. I've actually played it. And you can hear something say Allegheny. So it's like, okay, we're actually dealing with something here that, you know, picked out the force that we're in.

And then he said, how many Bigfoot are in this area? and it said many many many many many and then he asked do you know anything about dean or he said something about you know what DNA do they have or what something like that and it said don't know DNA and then he asked for a wood knock and it just kind of repeated wood knock back as a question and so like you're dealing with something like in the woods that knows what bigfoot is and knows where you're at but it doesn't know everything that you're talking about. And so it's, it's kind of confusing to me at times because I'm like, well, if it knows what we're saying, first of all, and knows where it's at, it knows Bigfoot, but it doesn't know what Woodnox are. It's kind of confusing to think of it that way. But,

I mean, I don't know. I mean, it's just, there's a lot of weird things that are going on here and stuff. I mean, Wes, I know you, uh, you and Woody, I think you said, we're out in the woods one time and you actually heard, what was it like a horse or something? It sounded like it kind of went right between you two, right? Yeah, it was one time we were in the woods. It was, and this is way before Bigfoot, we were hunting, and we had made our way down this kind of bridge line, and we could, and I thought for sure we were kind of tracking some elk down into this area.

And as we got down in this area, what happened was, it sounded like a Clydesdale horse was running towards us, and we both kind of stopped and looked in the direction it was coming, and it ran between us. And I'm telling you there was nothing there. There was nothing there. And I remember Woody and I still remember. I mean, I almost go back to that moment. I remember looking at Woody and I was like, what just happened?

And he just kind of shrugged your shoulders and was like, I have no idea what just happened. But going back to your EVP thing, you're talking about, there's a ghost hunter in Texas that contacted me. And there's an area in Texas where in this, it's an old town. that back in the early 1800s, late 1700s, it's a very old town. And I guess they were torturing people and it's just a bad area. And a lot of ghost hunters go to this area because you can hear saws at night. You can hear people screaming. You can hear evil laughter.

You can hear there's just a lot of paranormal activity that goes on there. And one of the questions he actually asked the EVP was, is there a big foot in the area? And the EVP came back and said, yes. They're very destructive, which I thought was odd because this guy doesn't even believe in Bigfoot. He's a ghost guy. And I found that to be very odd. But, I mean, I get stories about the dog man. And there is a paranormal aspect to some of the stuff.

And it's hard for people to understand, you know, like DW, Tony, Tim, you guys all talk to people who have encounters. And a lot of times the paranormal stuff doesn't quite add up because they just have an encounter. A quick encounter. they stumble across the thing and it's doing something you would anticipate an animal doing, whether it's pooping, peeing, eating, standing there,

doing stuff that seems very natural. And it isn't until you get on people's property that when they're around a lot is when people start seeing some of the weird paranormal stuff. And going back, DW hit it right on the head when he was talking about the lanes of traffic. Everyone stays in their lane of traffic.

And no one wants to address what's in the next lane of traffic. They're comfortable being in the fast lane or they're comfortable in the middle lane or they're comfortable in the slow lane. And anything outside of that, they start to freak out because they don't really know how to address it. Well, going off of that, no one really knows how to address what Sasquatch is. Explain me what Sasquatch is. You can say ape and I can give you 20 arguments against that. You can say human and I can give you 20 arguments against that. you can say it's paranormal and I can give you 20 arguments against that so it's a weird subject because there's not really um i think a lot of it bleeds over and i often wonder a lot about the um psychic medium that went out to the two brothers home one of the things that she said was everyone's kind of right in the big foot world no one's actually wrong everyone's kind of right um and her point was a lot of the stuff you know you know

there's a lot of correlations between what everyone thinks is going on and what everyone believes is going on. And no one's really right and no one's really wrong, which really muddies the water in the subject, especially when you start talking about dogman, you start throwing other lights, you start throwing other things into it. It muddies the water, but it doesn't muddy the water, because all of this is going on in a lot of situations. So either you either address it or you don't. and if you choose not to address it and you call yourself a researcher, you're not researching anything then at that point

because you have to be willing to stop and address like Tim and I were talking about and DWs talked about, I know Tony you've talked about, there is weird phenomenon that goes on with Sasquatch, for example, that can't be easily just brushed off and explained. And I know Tim made the comment earlier

and I think he's right on. It's sure funny how you find a lot of correlations between demons and aliens and Bigfoot and Dogman. Sure, strange that there's a lot of strange coincidences. If you're talking behavior or things that have happened in an encounter, sure strange that there's all these weird coincidences across the board. So sometimes I wonder, is it all just mass confusion? And we're all kind of talking about the same thing?

that probably made no sense. I'll just sit by my chair and... No, no, it's... You're absolutely right, man. You know, Stan Gordon connected these dots years ago. You know, he's been doing this for a very long time. And, you know, he started connecting dots to the fact that when people see Bigfoot, they tend to see a UFO.

UFO, Bigfoot. Sometimes, at the same time. And it's like, why is it? is that? DW, did I cut you off? I'm sorry if I did. No,

I was going to say is to add on and not to anything from what West was saying, you know, if you would chunk down to a lower level,

which is where we are, and we talk about those lanes in the highway, that's like a, you know, a 5,000 foot view. It's confusing. But if you go up

and take a 100,000 foot in the air view and wow, should I say this? Yes, let's say this. And you start looking, well, I don't feel comfortable. Okay, if you start looking at things

from 100,000-foot view in the air and imagine yourself looking at, looking down a ladder, unless I make those different rungs of the ladder, the information that we currently have. Then go back to what Tim says when we start talking about the commonality between demonic and Portuguese activity

and Bigfoot and Dogman and different cryptic activities because you can throw alligator man in there as well because there's a lot of similarities in those stories I've been told that seem demonic. Then you can possibly say that there is a demonic connection to this and that maybe at the top of all of this

is some type of entity masquerading as these creatures. and overall masquerading as a whole. If you wanted to, if you were a demonic entity or an evil force and you wanted to really muddy the waters on different topics and different issues, then you would manifest yourself in as many ways as possible. You know what I'm saying? It wouldn't just be, I wouldn't just manifest myself in one shape, one form. I would manifest myself as an alien.

I would manifest myself as a dog man, a big wood, whatever I had to do to get my objective achieved. Now, there's no way to know what that objective is, and I'm not even trying to say that there is an objective, but if there was, I mean, what better way to do it than create mass confusion? You see what I'm saying? What better way to cause problems than create mass confusion?

And I think that's what it is. So when West says that the psychic said that we're all right and we're all wrong at the same time, I think that this conversation is important because it's a conversation where we're starting the process of chunking up and going up the ladder as opposed to staying on the lower rungs of the ladder. One of the things that I'll say that I probably shouldn't say, a lot of the mystery schools, a lot of the mystery schools have information in them that's outstanding. and the Masonic teachings, we learn about Joette Boaz and Joachim, the two pillars outside of King Solomon's Temple. And they talk about those pillars being 23 cubic tall, right? Each pillar 23 cubic's tall.

And when you start to look at the relationship of those pillars, 23 and 23 is 46, and it matches the actual strands of DNA and the human genome. And this is stuff that goes back centuries, knowledge that goes back. centuries. And when you start looking at it, even down to what's happening the day and modern day times, we are, we, we have all the information there. It's just so jumbled up and confused and twisted around. It's hard to put the pieces of the puzzle together. And I guess that's the point I'm trying to put across. And I think this conversation is the beginning. And it's a very responsible conversation because now we're kind of getting to a high level conversation well maybe we can start putting some of the pieces of the puzzle together

but as long as we're at the bottom rung of the ladder i don't think we'll put it anything together and i don't think we'll have any real answers and it's comfortable being at the bottom i'm guilty of staying at the bottom um and just saying okay i'm gonna talk about it this way and every now and then i'll come out and say something um you know a little bit higher up the ladder in my opinion and then I'll go back down because it's comfortable because you know that and you have that understanding and people are ready to accept that information. They're more readily able to accept that

as opposed to you talking about Stargates and Fallen Angels and Genetic Modification and Angels sleeping with women and people like what? You lose people with that. But at the end of the day, we've talked about and I know, West, you can attest to this. Everybody can attest it.

We've talked about pretty much everything you can talk about on this level when it comes to dog man bigfoot and all these cryptids it has to go to a higher conversation in order for us all to try and find a way to make sense of it because if not we're just talking about the same thing over and over and over there's commonalities in all these different encounters that people share with us you can pretty much probably put them on a graph and there's a bell curve to them which I've described before where you know there's some on a left end of the curve and some on the right end of the curve and there's that's ones that's in the middle So it's almost

We've had enough encounters combined To where it's almost scientific You know the knowledge that we've been able to pull from it But we just haven't been able to gleam anything higher from it I really like how you put that DW Because you're right you And people ask me all the time You know you guys would be shocked to half the stuff I've heard off the air

I mean you guys have no idea Well I'm sure most My audience here at the moment Tony and Tim and DW you probably know. But, you know, if you start really going off on your own ideas and your own theories based on what you've heard, don't you feel like sometimes you'll lose the audience? Like, I know my audience, for example, if I really start going off on some of the things I've been told and really start talking about some of the things that I'm 90% sure of, most of the audience is

going to go, Wes has lost it. He's fallen off his rocker. And I'm well aware of that. And so it's not so much ego or money or anything. It comes down to the simple fact of sometimes you've got to warm up the audience to what you think, as opposed to, I don't know what I'm trying to say. You've got to warm the audience out. You don't want to lose the audience. The audience is the most important thing. They're your biggest advocate in this whole thing.

And sometimes if you go off too much on what you know or what you think you know, there's at risk of this guy's lost it. You know what I mean? I often think of how I would look at it. If I were listening, I would think Wes has lost it. Wes has completely lost it. But the audience doesn't get a chance to hear half the stuff that I've heard. And I know DW you're in the same boat.

Tony, you're in the same boat. Tim, you're in the same boat. And so it's trying to find a way to like the government cover-up show. I know everyone wants me to do the government cover-up show. But I've got to be real careful on doing stuff like that. You know, the minute I started talking about there's different types of these things, you see everyone out there just run with it. And now there's, you'll hear Bigfoot research, well, it sounds like a type one.

That sounds like a type one. That sounds like a type two. That sounds like a type three. And I'm sitting there thinking, do these guys know? Like, I was about four beers deep into it when I came up with this theory. And now they're talking about it like it's biblical, you know, like it's the, and it's not. You know, these are just ideas. So I'm, I guess I'm more careful now on being so quick to come out and say kind of what I think, but I really like how you put that DW

again, brother, you hit it right on the head. Sometimes you've got to take a step back and look at it from a thousand foot view and look down and see what actually is going on as opposed to being stuck on a rung because if you're stuck on a wrong, you're going to be stuck on that rung for

a long time and you'll never move forward. And I know people have seen me move forward. I used to call people flute players and these things were apes and these things were, you know, I was arrogant when I first got into this. And the more you get into it, the more you start realizing, you don't know anything. And when I say you, I mean me. And so it's important, I think, for a lot of the audience listening, take a step back and just look at this logically. Bigfoot is a perfect example. It's found on almost every single continent.

You think there's witness reports on Sasquatch Chronicles? Go look in China. Go look at look in Russia, go look in Australia, go look in even Mexico, go look at some of these places and see what people are saying. Now let's take a step back from that outside of just the Pacific Northwest, outside of just the United States, and tell me there's not something strange going on here. And I guess I'm just rambling. Sorry, Tony. No, you're fine. Don't take over. No, it's fine. And you're right. I mean, if you look around and stuff, I mean, even with dog man, we see that stuff, like what looks like a dog man creature in Egypt centuries ago you know it's in it's in a what's the word um glyphs glyphs what's the word hieroglyphics yes hieroglyphics so i mean you see it in

hieroglyphics and things like that it's like this goes way back this isn't a united states thing this is a global thing and people have been seeing these types of creatures for millennia And so, I mean, this is something that you kind of really got to open your mind up to the fact that, listen, this is not something new that we as Americans stumbled across within the last 56 years since the Bob Gibbon film and all of a sudden we're trying to figure out what this is. This has been going on for a really, really long time. And you have to start thinking a little bit outside the box that you're comfortable in to get anywhere. And so like I like what you said earlier about you know giving in doses, you know, what you think and stuff. I kind of chuckled at that because I, you know, because you and I talk a lot. Like I'm an extreme person. If I have something on my mind to do or to think like I go all in on it.

And so like I know that I tend to scare people away sometimes with my extreme nature when it comes to these kind of things because like tonight and stuff i i'm actually holding myself back so i don't dominate the conversation so much today i don't know if i am or not i'll have to review the audio but i'm a very extreme person and and sometimes i have to rein myself in so that i don't scare people away and actually ruin the potential of my further gaining knowledge down the road because people if people are scared to talk to me because i'm such an extreme person they might you know they're like i don't know about that you know they even my friend who i was talking about about earlier tonight with the vortex stuff.

Like, he even said to me, dude, I experienced something so crazy. I'm uncomfortable to talk about it. So when people are uncomfortable to talk about these kind of things, you have to approach them in a way where you give them that comfort, you know? And sometimes I don't do that. I get a little excited. You know, so. But, yeah, go ahead.

You're right, Tony. I mean, K. off, but you're right. Look in anubis. Now you take a modern day report and you tell someone who's seen a dog man, carving stone what you saw. do you think it might look like anubis half man half dog you know what i mean and so it's like what what what the hell was that thing that people were seeing thousands of years ago you know and so you're right there there is

there i don't think there's anything new we're seeing today that we that people in the past hadn't seen before hadn't dealt with before and you can see that with people in their bigfoot encounters it's almost like there is a or even with dog man it's almost like there's a physical reaction when people run into these things and i can speak about this firsthand i know dw you can't do as well there's almost a physical reaction when you run these things like somewhere in your dna you've run across this thing before somewhere in the past you've ran across and you know you're supposed to be afraid of it exactly exactly and that's a scary thing thought because I don't feel that way when I come across to Cooter. I don't feel that way and I've come across many bears. I don't feel that way when I come across to bear. However, with Sasquatch, there's this weird physical reaction. Like, somewhere in my DNA, I've seen this movie before.

I've dealt with this thing before. And you hear that time and time again from witnesses. Very odd, very strange. Well, that goes hand in hand with the nightmares. And what you're alluding to is genetic memory. Absolutely. Educated man, I like that. No, that goes hand in hand with the nightmares.

And Wes has talked about this on his show. I've run into this recently. There was a local guy who was attacked by a Sasquatch. And it took me about a year to draw the story out of him. And I finally got him talking. He was super, you know, he told me a good bit of the story. But, you know, each time I talk to him, he'd go, man, every time I talk to you, I call him like once a month.

And every time I talk to me, he said, man, every time I talk to you, I'll have nightmares for two weeks afterwards. And I was getting more and more of the story. And finally, he said, you know what, I'll tell you the, I want you to meet with you face-to-face. I'm going to tell you the whole story. And then we were setting up the time, and I called him one more time. And he said, you know, my girlfriend doesn't like me talking to you because I have these nightmares for two weeks after every time I talk to you. And that's the last time I talked to him. I've called him a couple times since.

He hasn't answered the phone. He hasn't called me back, and I don't want to bug him. he wasn't a big foot guy he wasn't into this stuff it's just something that happened to him like i said it took me a year to draw the story out of him and i don't even have i don't have the full timeline i wish i did um because it's it's an incredible story i have a good bit of the details but not all of them but i can't you know i can't make the guy talk to me and i certainly don't want to torture him if he's if he's tormented by these dreams but uh you know you hear that so often people talk about they'll get nightmares for years and years this this happened to this guy

back in 1974 and he's still having incredible nightmares, you know, for weeks at a time after he talks to me about this stuff. Very, very strange. That doesn't, like Wes was saying, that doesn't happen with bears. Somebody sees a bear. They don't get that. Yeah, you know, it's funny. You mentioned about the nightmares and things like that. It's funny how you hear different things. Like, like, what you just described was, you know, pretty, you know, I don't know how to describe it. We'll just say it's serious, you know, like it was more of a serious thing that he was talking to you about. Uh, But just a couple weeks ago, I had a friend call me, and he told me, he said, listen, dude, like my wife, she thinks I'm crazy for, you know, listening to Sasquatch Chronicles and things

like that. Like, she thinks he's nuts. Like, it's just her husband's thing, whatever. She woke up terrified in the middle of the night and she wakes him up. She's frantic. She pushes him, wakes him up. And he's like, what? What's wrong?

And she's like, I had a bad dream about a Bigfoot. Like, where does that come from? You know, like, is it a coincidence? Maybe it's a coincidence, you know? but it's just funny how like this these topics play on the psyche of people and you know i i hate to keep jumping back and forth but i'm going to do it anyways and west i haven't asked you if i think you've talked about on your show so i think it's okay uh but would you want to talk about that that's that time with the guy contacted you who heard conversations with these entities in his apartment or his

dad's house and then his dad thought he was mentally ill and it put him and institutionalized him and stuff like Talk about that a little bit. Yeah, I think that's a little separate issue, but the story behind that was the guy, he had moved into, sorry, I'm trying to remember the whole story, he moved into this home, this rental home with his dad. And what ended up happening is a lot of Polter Heights activities started happening in the home. Now, the son was there all the time. His dad worked two jobs, I believe. And so he's just a kid in the home. and he said that these two entities would torment him.

And he said a lot of the chatter that he heard reminded him of the Ron Moorhead, the Sierra sounds. Very similar. He said it was this real weird language, and sometimes they would speak English, but they would speak in this real weird gibber back and forth. And, I mean, I don't know if it's relevant to this whole conversation, but what ended up happening is he told me, he goes, I think that they were somebody important in the past. Then I said, why do you say that?

And he said, well, they kept mentioning Mount Herman. And I said, well, are you sure they mentioned Mount Herman? And he said, yeah, they mentioned Mount Herman several times. And they used to torment this kid. He said they would push against his kidneys. And the more that they tormented him, the more they seem to enjoy it. He eventually left. He ran out of the house.

And I think he was either chased by, I think it was dog man, actually. He was chased by. And he finally made it out to the highway. He's half naked. He gets to a bus stop type area. And the cops pick him up, take him in. And they put him into a mental ward, a mental hospital. And the whole time he's in the mental hospital, nothing ever happened.

And they're telling him he's schizophrenic and he's this and that. And he's like, Wes, he's like, listen, if I had some mental issues, I would tell you. But when he got out of it, his father had moved out of that house and there was no more issues. But he told me a lot of things about what these two entities would talk back and forth in his home. And he said they spoke like there were somebody important in a past life just the way they spoke. And they mentioned Mount Herman several times. He said they were talking weird languages. And most of the time they would speak in English.

He would interrupt him sometimes and they would get pissed off at him. And he claims he was attacked many times by these two entities but never killed. They would always threaten them. They would threaten killing his dog. They would threaten killing his father, which is interesting because they wouldn't, they wouldn't necessarily threaten to kill him. And I think there's something to that. I think there's rules to the game.

This is getting way off topic. But when you get into demonic entities, I think there's rules of the game that they have to follow. I don't believe a demon can kill you. I think that they Well, anyway, that's a separate issue But is that the story you're referencing, Tony? No, that was a story I was referencing And the reason why I brought that up

Because that story is really loaded with things And I don't know if you forgot to bring this up Or if I'm misremembering So correct me if I'm wrong But were they talking, these entities When they were around him talking Did they mention something about being around During the flood or something like that?

Were they mentioning that? They never mentioned the flood but they did mention Mount Herman at one time. They had, I think we were confusing, they had mentioned to him that their world had been destroyed. And I think you and I were talking, and I said, well, it's probably, if it is what I think it is,

I think they're probably talking about the flood. I don't know that they directly reference the flood, but they did talk about their world being destroyed, that they're originally from Mount Herman. And this kid was thinking Mount Herman was someplace in Ohio. And I was like, is there Mount Herman in Ohio? You might want to look at Mount Herman, brother, because what they're referencing to you

or what you think he heard isn't a mountain there here in the United States. Right. And that's the thing. I mean, so with this particular story, you got two entities in this guy's home. He hears them talking. He hears this gibberish sound that sounds similar to what Ron Moore had heard in Sierra. And here's the thing. we attribute the gibberish to what, Bigfoot, right? He was chased by a dogman. He hears these

entities talking, and they're talking about Mount Herman, which is biblical stuff. He talks about, they're talking about how their world was destroyed, which you and I were, you know, hypothesizing that maybe that was the flood, you know, so it ties so many different things into this. And I think one of the more important things that it ties in is the fact that he was institutionalized for mental health. I really do wonder how many people, now, I'm not saying nobody. he's mentally ill, but I wonder how many people do get institutionalized for being crazy, and they're not actually crazy. It's just science doesn't believe them with what they're saying. Tim, what do you think about that? The whole idea of mental health issues and, you know,

the possibility of people maybe not being totally unstable. I mean, am I off my rocker? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to say. And again, it's who makes that call. You know, I mean, I think a lot of people would, you know, throw us into a mental health hospital just for having this conversation. Yeah. You know, it's, you got to be somewhat crazy to be interested in this stuff. I don't mean any offense by that term. I'm just using it loosely. I tell you what, those voices, though, that called to mine Skinwalker Ranch.

There were two voices that they would hear, the family in Skinwalker Ranch. And they said, it sounded like they were speaking Russian. Now, were they speaking Russian or were they, you know, maybe if you didn't know what Russian sounded like, you might think that Sierra sounds kind of stuff is Russian. I don't know. But there were two voices that would talk back and forth and sometimes they would speak to them in English. And the thing with all of these voices, I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with Mothman Prophecies, the book, not so much the movie. Although the movie isn't awful, but the book is the real true story. I wouldn't trust any of these voices. The information they're telling you, don't, I wouldn't trust them because sometimes it's right and sometimes it isn't. And that's what I always caution people about. John Keel found that out. They gave very specific predictions sometimes that came true. And other times they were complete falsehoods, complete lies.

So just because a voice comes through in an EVP or you hear it, you know, in whatever capacity in a paranormal instance, I wouldn't trust it. And I wouldn't trust these voices because they've proven in the. past to not always be correct and sometimes to be actually misleading well and the other thing too going back to what he told me he said a couple times actually more than a couple times they would actually talk to him without actually hearing it and i said what do you mean by that and he said there was more or less i could hear him inside my head and he goes for us for a brief moment i thought i was actually losing it um he said it wasn't until we finally moved out of the home and things settled down he said I've had no more issues with it at all.

So either I was going completely delusional or this was actually happening, which is interesting because I was listening to a thing with Bobo from Finding Bigfoot, James Frey. And he recently went down to the Texas conference. And he had come across the Sasquatch he was going to take a picture of. And I about fell out of my chair when he said it because I don't know that Bobo is into the paranormal. But I thought it was interesting he said it. He made the comment that he's getting ready to take a picture of this thing. And in his head, he heard, if you take a picture of me, I'm going to kill you and no one's going to find your body.

And he decided not to take a picture of the thing. Now, let's say what he's saying is true. Where else do you hear that sort of thing? You hear that in demonic encounters. Very much so. Do you hear that? And DW agree with me on this. I know he's dealt with this way more than I have.

there is a lot of telepathy with with poltergeist activity or true demonic encounters when you start getting down into it you will hear people talk about that which is odd because you'll hear people talk about that in alien encounters how do aliens might mainly communicate with these witnesses yeah go listen to some of these witnesses it's not by mouth that's not how they're hearing what's being told to them. It's in their head. And so going back to what DW says, maybe it's all the same soup. Maybe it's not separate lanes of traffic. Maybe it's all one big bowl of soup and we just choose to pick and choose what we want to eat out of that soup. And we kind of leave the rest, but it's all one soup. Yeah, Josh Cutchin is a, he's a fellow paranormal writer. I have him on my podcast a lot. And he put it like this. He said, and he's just wondering out loud like we're doing it. This isn't his solution to the whole thing, but he was just saying,

I wonder if it's like a video game and you can get, you know, you can get new skins for the video game and make everything look different. It's essentially the same game. Right. But he said, I wonder if it's like that. Like, you know, there are different skins they're putting on essentially, you know, in the video game. I can tell you how we'll know if we're hitting on a higher truth is going to be the response

to this interview and how the feedback. and if it's attacked or if it's readily accepted, I anticipate if it's heavily attacked, then I think we're heading in the right direction. You know what I'm saying? And I believe we're heading in the right direction. And just even the encounter that Wes was talking about with the defendant from Mount Herman,

everyone knows, well, maybe people don't know, and that's what we got to do a little bit more explaining to people. That is the mountain where supposedly the angels fell from heaven and landed. So, you know, and I think that overall, sometimes we probably got to break it down a little bit more for the audiences. And then we have to appeal to the audience. So this is my public appeal to the people who will listen to this. Guys, you know, give us some leeway to actually try and figure out what's going on. Because you have heard pretty much everything you're going to hear.

So your support and you guys supporting us. kind of trying to dig to the truth. We'll open up doors where we get more information. And that really is what slows down the process and what bothers people in opposition is, you know, well, how is it going to be interpreted by the audience? And how's the audience going to take it? Are they going to try and turn their backs on us?

But, you know, we're no one without your support. And if we could finally get to some kind of resolution as to what's going on, it's only going to happen, you know, what you guys are support. So my appeal to the audiences that are going to listen is, guys continue to support us as we jump down these rabbit holes and really try and find out what the truth is because it's clear we only have part truth.

We have partial truth. We don't have all truth. And I don't think anybody listening under the sound of my voice can even say that they believe they know the whole truth. Nobody can say that. So you know, you've got to give us leeway in order to try and get to it and figure our way out and figure our way to it. And what I believe is going to end up happening is

there's going to be some it's going to give us the opportunity to bring in people who interview people who wouldn't normally interview that will kind of combine their knowledge and their information with our real life actual, what I like to call on the ground intel, because that's really what we get is intel from people on the ground with people who have,

you know, scholars who have knowledge that goes back centuries. Once you combine that real life intel, which is, hey, somebody called me this morning, with an encounter from Kentucky, Lexenburg, on Ridge A, with, you know, someone who's a scholar, really, you know, maybe a biblical scholar or historical scholars or, and then you start matching those together. Now we really get a clear picture. And I believe what we're seeing now is we're only seeing,

you know, if you have a book open in front of you, we're seeing the left side of the page, you're not the right side of the page. We need both sides of the page in order to make a decision. So I just hope that the audience will allow us to leeway to do that. And I'm appealing to you guys who listen to allow us to have that leeway to try and dig to the truth because that's what we're all after. Well said, DW. Well said, brother. Yeah, absolutely good stuff, DW. Thanks for, you know, sharing that.

And guys, I'm going to start winding this show down here because, you know, I don't want to go too long. But I just want to say thanks to you guys for coming on and hanging out with me and just, you know, talking, you know, openly with me in front of people. I mean, that's what the whole point of the show was, to, you know, have open dialect. We don't have to, you know, all agree with each other, but just to actually think out loud and not be afraid of what people are going to say and things like that, just to come forward and share some ideas, some thoughts and, you know, let the cards fall where they may. So, guys, I really appreciate it. And before we get out of here, I just want to let everybody know where to find each and every one of you. Wes Germer, you can find him at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. He's also on iTunes and all those different platforms and things like that.

Timothy Renner, you can find him at strangefamiliers.com, and you can also find him on iTunes and Facebook and, you know, Wes is on Facebook as well. Just look up their shows. And also Dark Waters. You can find him at I Am Darkwaters.com and he is on Facebook. So there's a lot of new content thrown at you guys right now. So, yeah, hopefully, hopefully you guys, you know, check out their stuff and, you know, enjoy it. I know it's a lot of fun, you know, dealing with these kind of topics. And whenever you find a new show to listen to, it's always a good time. So on that note, guys, thanks for being here. I'll talk to you guys later.

We're out of here. Well, that's the show, everybody. I really hope you enjoyed it. And if you did enjoy it and you want to hear more of these think tanks down the road, I know we threw a lot of information out at you. I know there's a lot of things to think on and comprehend. But if you want to hear more of these think tanks down the road, reach out to us on social media. We're on Facebook.

We're on Twitter. our Twitter handles are at T-Confessionals and at Tony underscore Merkel. Just search the confessionals on Facebook. Just search the confessionals on iTunes. You'll find us. And let us know if you really like this show and you want to hear more of these think tanks down the road. All right, guys. I hope you guys have a great week.

Stay safe. Take care. And remember, the truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. I walk a lonely road, the only one that I have ever known. Don't know where it goes. but it's home to me and I walk alone walk this empty street on the boulevard of broken dreams

where the city sweeps and I'm the only one and I walk alone I walk alone my shadow's only one that walks beside me my shallow heart's the only fear that's beaten Sometimes I wish someone up there will find me I want that divides me somewhere in my mind On the border line up the edge in where I walk alone Meet between the lines what's f-up and everything's alright

Check my vital signs and know I'm still alive and I walk alone My shadow's only one that wants beside me My shallow heart's the only thing that's beaten Sometimes I wish someone up there will find me Till then I walk along Fuck up, walk along I wish someone up there will find me Who long