The Confessionals - 734: Whistleblower Encountered Alien While in 'The Program' at Area 51

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

In episode 734: Whistleblower Encountered Alien While in 'The Program' at Area 51, Jason Sands reveals his extraordinary experiences within a classified military program that he was chosen for—one that operates in the shadows of the U.S. government. A former Air Force intelligence specialist, Jason shares how he was recruited into a secretive initiative at Nellis Air Force Base, a place where reality bends and the unknown becomes undeniable.Jason recounts the chilling moment he encountered a being unlike anything he had ever seen—an entity with no ears, oversized eyes, and a request for a mysterious metallic material. He details the telepathic communication that defied explanation, the missing time he experienced, and the eerie realization that his convoy companions seemed almost entranced.From his early childhood UFO sighting to the revelations he uncovered in the program, Jason’s testimony raises staggering questions: What are these entities, really? Are they from another star system, another dimension, or something even more unfathomable? And why does the government go to such great lengths to keep it all hidden?Become a member for ad-free listening, extra shows, and exclusive access to our social media app: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinThe Confessionals Social Network App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZMy New YouTube ChannelMerkel IRL: @merkelIRLMy First Sermon: Unseen BattlesSasquatch and The Missing Man: merkelfilms.comMerkel Media Apparel: merkmerch.comSPONSORSSIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsUNCOMMON GOODS: uncommongoods.com/tonyGHOSTBED: GhostBed.com/tonyCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] Sands:X: @JasonTSandsFirsthand: FundraiserMAILING ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/theconfessionals/Discord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelProduced by: @jack_theproducerOUTRO MUSICJoel Thomas - SpinningYouTube | Apple Music | Spotify

Hey Dony. I just want to take a moment and express my gratitude for the new app that you created. It's seriously amazing. Since I started using it, I've been able to connect with many like-minded individuals who share my experiences and interests in paranormal activity and the Bible. This app has opened up a whole new world for me, definitely allowing me to engage in meaningful conversations and learn from others who have similar stories to share. Super valuable app. I'm so glad that you put it together. Couldn't ask for a better place to connect with people and engage. in these type of topics that you just don't hear anywhere else. Merkel. Media. This was all circulating around the base that a giant had to kill, but no one was supposed to talk about it.

I saw three long, boning fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing at this giant. Well, the giant moves. He's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast. And spears, Dan, holds him up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face.

They basically decapitated. And I look over and there are two small gray entity. You get pulled off the bed. And in this bush, and I touch air. couldn't breathe and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. Welcome to the show, everybody listening to The Confessionals Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here.

If you've a crazy wild experience, you want to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is contact at theconfessionalspodcast.com. That's contact at the confessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the contact section, and you can reach me that way as well. Either it works for me, just get a hold of me. If you want more shows on a week of basis, we got you covered right there. Confessionalspodcast.com slash join. You get access to extra content on the website and the members' exclusive app, which is a social

media network which we house the member episodes within. It is our own social media app right there waiting for you as members. Go ahead and check it out by becoming a member at the confessionalspodcast.com slash join. Now, today we have Jason Sands on the show. Jason is somebody who is becoming quite the popular person these days. He's recently been on Joe Rogan and him and I connected to bring you a very interesting conversation. The long and short of it is this. Jason worked for the military. He had some very, very extreme N-H-I encounters. And he comes on today to talk about that. And wait until you hear what happens at the end of this episode.

As I'm breaking some things down to Jason trying to share with him my perspective, something happens on the interview that will, I think many of you will connect the dots. So let's get to Jason right now. All right, today we have Jason Sands on the show. Jason, how are you, sir? I'm doing well. Hey, I'm glad you're here. I just want to lay the groundwork here for the audience. You're somebody that I've been wanting to talk to since last year.

I reached out to you and said, I want you on the show. And you said, well, there's a documentary that I'm working with. And until that comes out, I can't do any conversations publicly. I'm like, all right, that's cool. And I think you even suggested to me that you would, be okay doing the interview, but it just can't be released until the documentary comes out. And I just felt like I didn't want you to have to worry about, you know, can I trust this guy with that? So I figured, I'll just wait until after the interview.

So listen, there's been a lot of people that have been introduced to you as of late. You, in fact, you and I were talking about scheduling it for the recording of today. And I had no idea that I think it was about two weeks ago now. you were on Joe Rogan, which was, I was like, holy cow. So word spreads fasts around here about Jason Sands and his experiences. But you're former military and you've had some radical experiences with what is being referred to as N.H.I. I'm old enough in this world of this talk that, you know, we used to call it just aliens back in the day. but I had a real disdain for going with the UAP at first,

but now I say UAP as well. But I'd like for you to kind of lay the groundwork here. Former military, if you could let people know, maybe some of your credentials, and then we can kind of get into some of your experiences with this stuff. Yes. Join the Air Force back in 1985. First job in the Air Force was to be a what they call a sheet metal guy,

In other words, I would be fixing wide-bodied aircraft like C-130s or larger craft than just repairing the structures. Then I cross-trained out of that, got into Intel. I believe it was around 87. And 88, somewhere around there, ended up going to Germany, and then right after that,

I went to Nellus. And that's where I got introduced to all the strange stuff and got ready to be in a black folk program, a special access program. And then I finished out my career as a joint planner, kind of a staffer guy, and then a superintendent when I retired it in 2007. And I've pretty much been a DOD contractor ever since just, you know, using all those skill sets. Yeah.

Yeah, I got taught a lot about, you know, radio theory, how to understand all the different telecommunications types, the encryption types. Is there any which way that the military, you know, in their possession, that's what I was allowed to monitor and report on and just go from one place to the other, monitoring phones and faxes and computers, emails, all these types of things.

And that's also what I did inside the program. And just to get this out of the way, when you say the program, you're not allowed to say the actual name of the program, right? Right. That name is a code name and is classified. Okay. It's probably not the same name that I knew it by because you're talking about my tenure in the program was in 1990s. They tend to switch names from time to time, you know, every five to 10 years. Sometimes do that.

So it's probably under another name anyway, but they still, you know, I don't know exactly what they call it. So I shouldn't say what the whole old name is even because that gives people an edge, you know. Yeah. And we don't want that to happen. Yeah. So you did a documentary with James Fox. You were on that documentary called The Program. And it kind of details the background story of how the program came to be and started.

we can definitely link, put a link in the description of the program. That way people can go check it out. Because I think that that will give people the foundation as to what you, like, what you were involved in as far as like, you know, the details outside of your own story kind of thing. So you and I were just talking a little bit before we went to record here. And I mentioned to you, I kind of want to talk to you a little bit. Before we get into, you know, heavy stuff that happened at Nellis. You kind of refer to some things that happened in your childhood before, you know, we get into all the stuff that happened at Nellis and things like that. If you could maybe recall that story, because I find it interesting. What I do a lot of my show is I like collecting people's stories in completion. And I think our conversation today is almost like a warm up. I'd love to bring you into the studio for their next conversation.

because there's a lot of details I know we're not going to be able to get to today. But if you could lay that groundwork from your childhood, because a lot of times things do kind of cross-pollinate and connect in some way or another. And I'd like to hear that story. Yeah. So I think I was around 10 years old. This is my first UFO experience. I was just walking into my bedroom.

There was no lights on in my bedroom. all the adults were in the living room talking. It was around December. You know, so it was around the holidays. But anyways, as I'm walking into my room, I noticed this sort of red light come in from the atmosphere. It looked like it was coming in from, you know, a very high altitude. And it started coming towards me and my neighborhood.

And from a long distance, it must have been, you know, like maybe at least 50 miles away at first, and then it was just that bright. It was noticeable at that distance. And as it got closer, of course, it got a bit bigger. And then what really surprised me was after,

I'm on the foothills in San Jose, California, when this happens. And it's in the 1970s. And anyway, there's this little valley where my, I'm kind of up midway on this hillside in my neighborhood. It goes down to the bottom.

of the hill and then it climbs back up, uh, to this ranch that's across the street from where I was. And there's this ranch that sits at the top of the hill and this thing was coming out over the top of that ranch. And it kept coming down in altitude to the point where it was actually over my friend Eddie's house at the base of my neighborhood, or at the base of my road. And um, that's when, uh, there's a huge flash of white light, like a flash cube had gone off. And, uh, It only lasted an instant. And so the red light, when that occurred, went completely away. And what was in its place, then after this white flash, was this 20 or 30 foot in diameter,

kind of pill-shaped drop of mercury that was flat on the underside. And it had this weird appendage sticking out of it, too, like a very small wing that was not really aerodynamic. It definitely wasn't keeping it flying or anything. It was just like a little thing that just stuck out of the side of it. So at this point, I'm screaming to all the adults. There's a UFO, there's a UFO, but nobody was responding. They're just like, ah, you know, it's just a kid, you know, he just ignore that, you know. And I started seeing that it was taking a very leisurely, I could walk faster than the UFO was going,

but it was going across the roof line of my friend Eddie's house towards the street. And there's a street lamp at the base of his driveway. So I knew that it was still continuing down that way. And I was thinking to myself, I need to get my dad's binoculars out of the hallway closet and go out and get a really good look at this. And as I was running to go get that, my mother was the only one that responded. And she's like, wow, something's up with Jay. I need to go follow him out.

So she followed me out to the front lawn, and by that time, the craft had come out underneath the, or right next to the street light. So I had a perfect view of it. It's very smooth, like a mirror, but it was shaped in that, you know, that pilt type of shape. And that's about the same time my mom comes up beside me. And then it takes off like a shot up into the sky, and it begins to rotate around another point of light. They both look like stars because they were so far away. And then the one that was over my friend Eddie's house stopped suddenly. And the other star went shooting across the horizon light.

I couldn't even keep up with my eye. But my mother saw the whole thing where it was flying up to, you know, this other star in the sky. So there was all that. My friend Eddie confirmed that, yes, something strange happened that night. His TV and his lights were all going. you know, on and off. He couldn't get anything.

He also heard her hum, he said. That was, and he felt like he wanted to go outside. And when I told him, he felt really bad because he was like, oh, man, I missed their UFO. So he actually confirmed that he also had experienced some strange things that happened there. But that was when I was 10. That was the first time that I had ever seen a UFO for myself.

And that was quite an experience. And like I said, my mother shared that. It's a radical experience. I mean, like a lot of people who might have any experience with UAP, whether they're a child or adult, they don't have that kind of experience. You know, when I was a kid, I had seen something in the sky and it shot out a beam of light, came towards me and my mom in the trailer park and I went up the road. but that's basically what it was. And I don't have nearly the experience that you had at such a young age. Now, knowing what you kind of know now when it comes to the information you've been given, you know, as an adult in your service,

do you feel like what you experience could have been some kind of reverse engineering? Because the way you describe the metallic mercury look to it and the little weird wing and stuff, Like, is it a chance that this was some kind of reverse engineer technology that they were working on back then, you think? No. I actually liked drawing back then, and I used to study, you know, military aircraft. And I used to draw them, and I'd look at pictures and books. Yeah, this definitely to me, I couldn't see rivets. It was very smooth.

Everything about it was just not, you know, what I was used to seeing. So, yeah, I definitely had that feeling like I had seen something. that was completely, you know, not made by human hands. But this was manufactured someplace that had a lot more technology than we could have ever had back to the 70s. And that's what the impression that left me with was that this was some kind of high-tech thing from some other planet or some other, you know, dimension and whatever people are interested in, you know, because I've heard a lot of different people to say, you know, some of this is all interdimensional. some of this is from off-planet, you know, I don't know what to tell you,

other than the fact that this was not human, you know, or at least it was not from our time frame. This was definitely outside of our technical reverse engineering expertise. And then to find out later in the 90s, you know, because you're talking 20 years later, I get introduced to the program, and I'm still left thinking, I never, ever found any other craft that I'd ever seen

that seemed to, you know, match what I'd seen in those 10. So even being in the program, I'm still of the mind that this was not human made. Yeah, and, you know, being in the program, I imagine you were exposed to a lot of information. And, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but, I mean, the idea of reverse engineering is not a fairy tale when it comes to these things, right? I mean, there is. That's correct. And to think our adversaries don't have similar programs. grants for reverse engineers is also a fallacy of logic if you think that they don't do this.

They have huge swaths of land that have probably had crashes just as often as we have, where they've done some retrievals and tried to study and reverse engineer. So, yeah, this is a global thing. You know, these things are, for some reason, when they encounter some of our radar systems and or other things happen and they actually have a crash just like me do. You know, we always think that we have the safest airplanes, but, you know, they get into a situation. Next thing they know, they're falling out of the sky.

I think these creatures from other worlds, you know, they suffer the same sorts of things. So, yeah, it's something you've got to think about when you observe these. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. I, some of the questions and some of the directions I want to take this, I'm just going to say for the next time I have you, because I don't want to go too far, of course. But when you bring up the pill shape of this craft, you know, recently in the news, Jake Barber had just come out with the egg-shaped UFO, which kind of parallels with people like Chris Bletsso who encountered the egg-shaped UFO. When you think of what you saw from your childhood to now, is it possible that it's a similar type craft that these people are talking about? You know, I've never been asked that, but perhaps, for me, no, it didn't look like the same craft.

I think the ones that I've seen in the videos that Jake has brought forward, no, that craft that he was picking out, was definitely not metallic looking, nor was it as big as the one that I'd seen. And it didn't even have that little appendage sticking out on the side of it. So there are all these differences. Now, just as we have different styled cars, I've seen enough UFOs to where I feel like some of them are operating with different power plants, you know, and things like this.

But no, what Jake Barber saw in the egg-shaped thing, I equate more to some of the other encounters and people that talk to me offline about their encounters. They're talking about what I consider the egg shape that Barber is talking about. Jake Barber is talking about. But my craft is not one of those. And it's either manufactured by the same people,

but it's a different style craft. Maybe it's a research craft. I'm sure they have different use vehicles as well like we do. You know, we have military vehicles. We've got off-road vehicles. We've got, you know, campers, RVs, all these different types. I'm sure, they have a plethora of things that they do with their craft too. But when it comes to the power plant, to me, there seems to be a difference there between what I saw and the red light and the white light being some sort of what I think was a plasma or some kind of energy source.

I did not see that in Jake Barber's egg retrieval But then again, I didn't see it illuminated or operating So I'm kind of on the fence as to whether these are all from one species Whether we're just looking at different styles of craft from one species Yeah I mean, I think that at least at the very least there's two, right? Because I think for me personally,

And from the guy who hasn't been in your shoes and stuff, I look at the situation. And I'm like, okay, reverse engineering. So what is ours? What is something else that we don't really know where it comes from? And I have my own ideas. But you brought up the program several times here. I think we should probably move in that direction.

I would like for you to kind of lay out how this process started for you, like getting into the program. It's not like it's something you applied to. I had years ago, I had a guy on the show. episode 122, and I told you earlier, I just came out with episode 730. So it was a long time ago. But this was before people were really coming out and talking about this stuff. This guy had a very radical experience in his service, but it seems like he was picked. Like he wanted, you know, he gave them his list of things he'd like to do. And none of the things that he liked to do was what he wound up doing.

He became an information specialist, like retrieving information through the tech. technology. And his story, very long story short, one time him and a group of scientists and other, others, like soldiers, were sent on a mission to retrieve information off a downed aircraft. When they finally got to it, it was nothing he's ever seen before. They go inside and the language on it was a language he didn't recognize. And he's looking through his manual trying to understand what is this language. And the scientist told him, you're not going to fight into the and he asked for clarification, and the scientist said, it's a Nokian language. And he's like, what's that? And they're like, that's a demon language. And they wound up having to use thermite

to destroy that craft and book out. So his, and his story's wild. Like, it has a lot of twists and turns in it. And back then, people were like, this guy's full of crap. Now he sounds like, just like everybody else is coming out and saying this stuff. And unfortunately, him and I have lost contact. But I say that because, you know, my audience is familiar with stories where people are, you know, they're not just going and applying for things. It's almost like you're being handpicked and given this responsibility. So if you could kind of lay out how this happened for you, because you had obviously no idea what the program was before they approached you. Well, as you say, they did pick me. There was no application or form to fill out for this job.

They just noticed me. I think they'd probably noticed that I was a potentially good analyst because I was still quite young at the time. About 10 years in, the services were that I got entered into this. So they'd been able to see some of my work. They also knew I had a fairly good memory and being able to connect the dots on different things and that I had an interest also, I think, in sort of technical things.

I really took to technical things. I was very good with computers, very good with, you know, had interest in, like, magazines, like science, you know, popular science magazines, popular mechanics. And I really have enjoyed that most of my life and really had an interest in that. Maybe that was something else they looked at. But I do remember taking off with one of them. to do just a normal job up to the Nell's test range where we're going to go train the pilots

on how to survive in a wartime environment. And I didn't know at the time, but the guy was in the program, and we were chumming around and talking about all kinds of stuff on the two-hour drive-up range. And I guess he felt like, you know, I was easy to get along with. we were already kind of friends already but we started chumming around about the or start talking about the dreamland you know because

everybody knew about it when you worked at Black Mountain which is where we did our operations and training from that is some a topic I mean you see the groom Lake Mountain range is just across from where that front porch of the the schoolhouse as you walk out you can see it You know, it's many miles away, but in the desert you can see for miles.

But so everybody talked about it. And we were talking about it on this trip up. And he just kind of giggled at me a little bit, you know, knowing that he was in the program and that he might potentially be inviting me in. But sure enough, about a week or so later, the other three are all three of the analysts that were already in the program. I found myself in kind of a loose meeting with them, and they were getting to know me, and they were saying, you know, yeah,

we'd like to onboard you, and we'd like to, you know, have you come help us, and you have a problem with taking a polygraph, and I was like, well, no, I've got nothing to hide. So they scheduled that, and there's another officer that also had to be polygraphed because he was new to the program as well, and he would be the one flying cover for us

when we were out on missions, you know, just keeping people away from asking about me or one of the other analysts when we were on these two-week missions. And that's how it happened is, is kind of within a space of a month or two. That was, I was onboarded, found myself on an airplane going to Dreamland. And that was how it all started. When you say Dreamland, what do you mean by that? Well, that's the area, you know, in the middle of the test range of everybody's content. I can't, I'm not allowed to say the name of it, but, uh, it's Greenland or Groom Lake, whatever, but, uh, is that what it was being muted.

That was being muted in the documentary, right? Yeah, it looked like, yeah, that was what I was saying. Okay. Uh, so we had to mute that out of the, the film as well, so. Why are you not allowed to say it? It's a, it's a commonly known phrase and I know. It's a, well, it's, I don't know. Honestly, I don't know why they didn't want to reject that.

Um, they, they did say it was for operational security, not classification reasons, but it was operational security. So, I mean, they saw it as a way to protect myself, I guess. I don't know. Gotcha. But anyways, either that or they just didn't want me to associate my name with that name. Hmm. I still don't know.

There was never a full explanation. What happened was I just put in my pre-publication request about what I could talk about. and there was really just that one singular thing that they said, yeah, don't say that. And it was blacked out and they didn't really have an explanation. Interesting. So you had to have,

you had to submit a form or something, getting permission to even talk about this stuff. Anybody who's in Intel that has its clearance, they have to do that. Gotcha. Okay. Do all whistleblower types have to do that? Do they do those kind of things?

I mean, to me, like the idea of a whistleblower. is like you're going against the grain. Well, no, it's a part of the process if you want to go public afterwards because you do have to, you know, go and, you know, whistleblow to Congress. And that's what I did at the time back in 2022, December 2020. And you get those protections from the NDAA.

And that's the first step. So there's several ways that you can come and voice your concerns, like between me and David Grush, let's say. We didn't come to Congress the same way. I came in as like a concerned citizen that, you know, I was part of this, and I'm looking for protection so I can tell you my concerns. David, on the other hand, he had already been, had some reprisals made against him in his clearance and everything,

and they were accusing him of certain things. So he was coming in from a formal ICIG complaint, which is a different thing, which is a formal legal matter. And so he had to go in with, you know, a different, he had to have lawyers there that I did not because of the two different ways that he went forward and my, I went forward.

So there's these different ways that you can come forward. forward. So that's how it started. And that's the first legal wicket to go through is to get those protections afforded you by going to Congress and speaking your mind. And then I was also asked to go talk and give my testimony to Arrow, which had just started interviewing some of us. And so I did that in January. So just the next month in 2023, I end up talking to Sean Kirkpatrick. and I believe it was his deputy

and they were both in the room with me the whole time and they interviewed me also very similar questions got to a certain point where they're asking me what you know what about the your other experiences you know have you seen any other

things that you can describe for us and I mentioned that you know my childhood events but I told them pretty much you know those were more what I consider spiritual than you know things that will help you in an investigation kind of experiences, you know. And so we just dropped it from there.

So I just get handed them what they needed, nuts and bolts was. And then the next step after that was to do the formal Inspector General complaint and filed that because that again, you know, you can provide all the information. But that one, you know, I was just, I think what happened was David Rush had been there before I was. So he had already stated everything that I mentioned to him in his testimony. So I was just going into to confirm that, yes, I kind of agree with everything David Greff says. And so I don't think anything really happened with my testimony because there was stuff they'd already heard from David and probably some other whistleblowers as well. And then the very last thing that I had to do was that pre-publication.

And that is, you know, if you want to go public, you have to give that to the Department of Defense and the pre-publication office so that you can, they can look it over and go, oh, yes, we're okay with you discussing these topics. And that was the very last wicket. So there's those four layers of legal wickets that I had to go through. And that's what most whistleblowers go through. But if they don't want to go public, they don't have to do a pre-publication because, you know, if they're not going to talk about anything, then, there's no need for it. Hey guys, this episode is brought to you by Merkmerch.com. Go ahead and get your Mercklemedia apparel at Merkmerch.com. We got some new hoodies up there on the store. Go ahead and check it out. Cop years before it's too late. Also, Merkelfilms.com is where you can get your on-demand streaming of documentaries we've put out.

And we have new content from other creators coming to that site very soon, Merkelfilms.com. So you went through an extensive process to go public. and the audience right now. Anybody who's listening right now who doesn't know about your story, which I have a very diverse group of people listening right now. So there may be people who really don't know your story.

I'm assuming that was a big chunk of you coming and going public and talking with disclosure. But if you could take us back to that, I think you said it was in 1994 when that whole situation happened. I think you have other stuff that you've gone through and experienced and, you know, but I want to hit the big one here because I know, I want to make sure we have time for this. Could you take us to how this whole situation unfolded,

like what you were doing and where you were going? Yes. I had already been debriefed from the program at this point in 1994 that it had occurred earlier in the year. We're going up range. I believe it was somewhere between, you know, August to October, November. it was cold and we were just going up to train the air crews again for just a normal job and what had happened the week before though in this particular training mission that we're going on is the week before there had been a video that was taken on the Nellis test range over UFO coming onto the range and that is available out there because it was leaked out to the news back in 1994 and there's some real footage there that nobody's ever debunked and it has

a full report on the whole thing. It's got additional pictures so you understand where Black Mountain is, which is where we were headed again for that day. So this had occurred all the week before because every two weeks we switch out teams and sometimes you can you know volunteer to go another week, you know, because some people have babies or they've got a medical appointment or the family's in town. So we were trading out weeks, and that's kind of what can happen sometimes, and that's what was happening. This particular week was I was going up, and there were some people that were left over from the previous week who had seen this UFO, because it flew right by our schoolhouse on Black Mountain. So we actually went in that day, and we ended up going

through the gate and going up to what we call a contumonement area where you could gas up your vehicles. You know, if you have a flat tire, you could change your tire. But in the back part of this contulmin area, there's a little hut. And it's sitting in the hut are these video operators that were the ones that recorded this UFO. And they wanted to see the entire convoy of people coming after that week and wanted to record who had seen this craft.

And we all got to see the video. So everybody who went up that, following week with me saw this video of the UFO directly from the video operators. And we wrote our names down. How that video got leaked out to the press, I don't know. But in any case, that was what happened that day, and we all wrote our names down. And then we went out from that contonement area, and we started continuing on to our daily job, which was to go to Black Mountain and train the air crews.

So on that journey from the contonement area, there's a long stretch of road, dirt road, everything is dirt road up there, by the way. That was between the contumont area and what we called Quartz Mountain. And about halfway there, on that part of the dirt road, there's this person coming at me in the convoy, and he looks like he's going to fall over any minute. He was running very funny like he was running into a headwind from a, hurricane kind of thing.

And then as we got closer, I noticed this blue tint to his skin. But it did look very white like an albino kind of skin from a distance. But as we got closer, I could detect this blue tint to a skin. And that's when I began thinking he was dying of hypothermia because it was very cold out that day. And we just got closer and closer to him to the point where the guy in the front passenger seat that screams, he's got no ears. and I thought it was pretty rude because I'm like I'm starting to pop my door open and trying to get my jacket off

to just to kind of give first aid to this person that I thought was dying of hypothermia and then when I closed the door and I look up he's got no ears his eyes are too big for his head according to my anatomy if you look at our anatomy and his they're about twice as big and I started to get really really scared

but fortunately he started talking to me. It calmed me down, made me have to respond to him because he wanted to repair his craft. I didn't know what the material was that he was looking for. Tintillium, I think, is what everybody is telling me that it is. Because, you know, at the time, I still would fumble around and think it was a trintillium, tintillium, tantalium, you know, but Tintillium is what everybody's

telling me I should say from now on out. And when he asked me for that material, I was like, I have no idea what that is. And I was like, he's at titanium. He's like, no. And I said, well, you know, dream lands just over the mountain range there, you know, pointing off in that direction. He's like, no. And a wave of emotion kind of came along with that of disgust that he did not want to

ask barbarians and murderers for any help whatsoever. He refused to do that. And if I had any other ideas, and I was like, well, I have a professor down at college in town in Las Vegas where, you know, maybe he knows a metallurgist that could help you out, you know, because he's a geophysical professor. And he may have some friends. And so he thought that was a good idea. There was no goodbyes. He just kind of turned off the roadway, went off to the craft, got back in it because the craft was sitting. As we're driving at, you could see his craft off to the side of the wall.

road on the north shoulder of the road off about 50 yards and that's where his craft was sweet walks off back to that he takes off and I'm looking over at my friends at some point you know can't remember exactly when I remember looking over but they all look very like the glassy-eyed like their minds were totally empty like zombies and all of a sudden once the craft is gone gone across you know blown out over the roadway and gone off south, all of my friends start, you know, oh, yeah, it looked like they started coming too. And then we just, we had only a little bit more time to get the Black Mountain to set up our equipment, so everybody was just focused on getting to work. And I've been asked if

anybody remembers it. I have looked up the people in my, in the vehicle with me, apparently one of the people that can't find. The other guy I met on LinkedIn, and he ghosted me when I started talking to him about that day. And then the young lady that was off tomorrow right, I think she was too scared to talk about it. When they tried locating her for, you know, part of the interviewing of the program from James Fox's film. Because he did try to, you know, vet all those people.

So that's what I've been told, though, is that somebody got a hold of at least one of the people in the car, maybe two, people that they tried to get a hold of. but both of them were too scared to come forward. So, all right, on that note, you're saying that they, I'm assuming James Fox or whoever, was able to find other people who were in that caravan that without talking about because they're too scared, their fear is almost confirmation in the sense that something happened that day. That's correct.

Okay. So on that day, you're approaching this figure, this person thing. Could you tell, like, was it wearing like normal people clothing? Was it wearing civilian clothing? Oh, yes. Like what was? That was the other thing that was unusual. He was wearing BDAs or a battle dress uniform just like I was.

And I thought that was very unusual once, you know, I thought about it that day. but at the same time his uniform was very clean. I don't recall it having any insignia or rank on it. But usually when you go up range and you're a normal personal in range and you work up there, you don't take clean uniforms. It's a very dirty environment. So everything about his uniform didn't seem right. I've had people tell me what was it a projection, a hologram.

I don't know. In my mind, I think one of the theories that me and my friends talk about as to why he was there on the test range is that maybe it had some kind of altercation and was actually working with the folks in the program. And somehow he or the security forces got into some kind of, you know, kerfuffle or something. And he ended up taking one of the craft and maybe they shot at his craft and damaged it. on the way out and maybe what they do also is that they hand them a military-looking uniform when they're working with our troops so that there's a little bit of commonality there or that they're just part of the workforce kind of a thing it's just the uniform that people wear out there at the site you know that's that that's kind of the one that i think is the best

theory when my friends and i talk about it um that one's see you to be covering all the things that might have been happening that day. So that's what... So outside of the no ears and the eyes, proportionally, it looked like a human's figure? Yeah, he was about a half a foot tall or shorter than eye. No hair at all, no eyebrows at all. You know, just totally nothing with hair on.

So, yeah, it's just, a very, very strange, you know, looking gentleman. He was just a little shorter than me. He had a slight body, you know, it wasn't muscular or anything. Me, I was very robust back then. I was a weightlifter and, you know, it was probably good 210 pounds of nothing but pure muscle. So, yeah, I kind of towered over him a little bit. But, yeah, he treated me very well.

And there was a telepathic part of the communication and everything, also spoke audibly, but it was in the language I didn't know. So I knew there was some kind of telepathic component to the communication because I understood everything he was trying to ask for. Yeah, a very strange experience, very. It's interesting. So with the telepathic side of it, so you're audibly hearing him speak a different language. But you don't know the language, but in your brain you've been able to,

like you're basically able to I'm drawing the blank on the word not decode but like to translate in your brain well the way I equated is you know like I'm talking to you right now your brain is so instantaneously attaching the meaning

of every word but I'm actually attaching the meaning to the word before I speak because that's the way the process has to go I got to know what I want to say my brain understands what this word means and I'd give it to you. Then you and your brain, you reverse engineer that from listening to me in your brain, again, instantaneously, understands the word.

So the way that the understanding came, it came just a hair's breath sooner than the actual audible meaning of the word. So I knew I was catching it telepathically the meaning of the words rather than the spoken word. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. No, it does make sense. And it puts a lot into perspective because when somebody says telepathically, your situation is a unique situation where most time when people say they have telepathic communication with something, there isn't an audible. It's just, it's like from their brain to your brain telepathy. And yours is almost like there's a physical side to it that transcended our understanding of how language is even used. And so I find that very, very interesting.

Now, I want to kind of throw this suggestion into the mix because I talked to a man years ago. I think it was episode 377. His name was Chris and he was stationed at Nellis and he had an experience with UFO. And he would talk about other weird things that, he would experience at Nellis or that rumors were going around at Nellis. And, you know, I kind of want to bring this into the picture because, one, obviously, you've had a very weird experience at Nellis that most people have not ever dreamt of having. But is it possible that, because you suggested the idea that, you know, these beings working maybe within the program. And, you know, that's

why they were wearing BDUs. Have you ever considered the idea that what you experienced that day could have even been a product of a creation that happened at Nellus? Anything's in the realm of possible. There's such a lot of strange things. I was exposed to on the missions itself, the things the scientists, the engineers, you know all the things that they were talking about I would not let me say my mind is wide open because of what I've listened to so yes when you know it could very well be I mean I'm not a biologist I didn't sit there and take a DNA sample from this individual I couldn't I don't know how to even determine if there was an interdimensional person uh or whatever you know these are things that have to come out of after disclosure occurs.

And perhaps if the NHA themselves come forward, then we can determine all those things in a scientific manner. But the era we're in right now, we don't have that in a lot of these things. I mean, I've never heard of anybody who was a scientist or a doctor just saying, well, right after they were done inspecting me, I asked if I could put them on the table, you know. I've never heard of anybody doing that. So unfortunately, those are kind of things, data points that, yeah, I'm open to a lot of different theorems because to me it was strange enough already.

I know that what I saw was tangible and it was real. However, where that person came from, I kind of have an idea that it was from the regular star system because I have also during that day some missing time and a star map just seems to be embedded in my head has always been there since that encounter. So I think he's from a star, however, or a star system. But there are other beings that may be completely interdimensional, you know, or they have a portion of what the technology they use that's interdimensional. So there's a lot of different theorems that people throw around.

And I'm just like, yeah, it could be. It could be. Yeah. And you know, since you're open, your mindset is open, that's comforting because I can, I go down some really strange routes of thinking sometimes. In fact, I'm actually coming out with a T-shirt soon that just says it gets weird on it. But so the idea of interdimensionality,

I think is often looked at as an either-or situation. And the way I look at it is, I think it can be both physical. And I think physical things can transcend interdimensionally. I think that's what we've gathered. even with the disclosure side of things that, you know, some people, you know, and I'm going to throw a name out there that, you know, if you're not a fan of the guy, you don't have to say it. I'm just putting it out there from what I heard him say.

But Jeremy Corbell talks about like the spherical metallic UFOs. And I believe he was the one that had said that from what he was told that these things were coming into our realm of existence. But like just that alone says, physical things can traverse realms. And then when you go into like a biblical theological aspect of this whole thing, which you and I were talking about earlier before we started recording and, you know, I've established in our conversation, I'm a Christian. When I look at these kind of things, clearly there's other entities, beings beyond us from a Christian theological standpoint. Yes. And we've covered it on my show.

Psalm 82 talks about how God was judging other gods. There's like this main God, Elohim, Yahweh. And underneath him, I think in traditional Christian theology, it's always been just like, oh, there's angels, there's demons, and there's the Satan guy. But I think the spiritual realm is way more complex than that. And then when you consider the idea of when Paul talks about being taken to the third heaven, from that scripture, there's been a lot of, there's been a lot of study from theologians suggesting that, all right, so what's the first and second heaven? And I don't want to say I necessarily agree with this because I don't think I do. And I'm very humbly saying that because I never think I'm the smartest person in the room. But from traditional theological

standpoints, the first heaven being earth, second heaven being like the stars in the outer space. And so when you think about the second heaven which would be where these beings from the Bible

traverse and they operate where spiritual warfare happens, he's gone. That's a bummer. That's weird that he goes blank there. Well, what I was going to say to him was that for me, the idea of NHI not being totally physical is, you know, something that might be they traverse other realms. They could be interdimensional and traversing other realms. Yes, anybody listening right now, my conspiracy mind is rolling what I was touching on and then we get cut off. Interesting. What in the world? It always happens on these topics.

Jeez, what happens? There he is. I'll tell you, Jason. You were talking about the biblical side to this. Yeah, I'll tell you, it doesn't surprise me. Talking about these kind of things, sometimes little gremlins get into the technology. But what I was basically saying was the idea that people talk about the NHI, could they be interdimensional? I go in that camp a lot of times. But this idea that, well, they're physical.

What you experience was physical. That's where my mind goes where it's like, well, these things can transcend physically from one realm to another. And they would absolutely fit just the description of non-human intelligence. And so it's just an interesting concept to start considering, I think, for myself and other people that could it be something where you know, like you, I looked it up here. It was the rigulous star system. Is that what's called?

Regulus. And so like the idea of being a star system would be in that theological perspective, the second heaven, which would be another dimension. And so it's just, it's an interesting concept. And man, I'll tell you what, that threw me off. When you disconnect and I was talking about that, I was like, oh, no. It happens to me twice now that it gets theological, and then the next thing I happens, the next thing it happens, I get booted off. It's very strange that you're right, that it happens only when that topic is brought up.

But I totally agree with you. I mean, I'm a man of faith myself. I know, and I've read the Bible from front to back, every page of it, and it never, ever says we're the only thing God created. That's a living being. I mean, there are, even the story of Ezekiel, you know, saying that, you know, beings were coming and going up and down, you know, and all of these strange creatures that could be quite interdimensional, you know, like the wheels within wheels that had the spirit of God in them. Then again, you hear things about, you know, the early, you know, Abraham when he sees the sons of God, not the sons of man. those are two different things. Sons of man are us.

Sons of God are those that people commonly refer to as angels. And then you have the stories of Genesis as well where the fallen angels are mentioned, that they're the watchers that fell from God's grace, you know, and where were they, they came to earth, you know. So these beings could be very interdimensional or hard for us to understand because of that aspect of their characteristics. So yeah, there's a lot to dig into when it comes to all that, but nothing I've ever read in the Bible really flies in the face of anything that I've experienced in the program or since. Yeah. And I agree with you. I think that there is, it's interesting. It's interesting because I think that there's a whole perspective when it comes to biblical theology that people get hesitant with things, especially with your story. But I feel like,

it's because traditionally as modern Western Christians, we do not hold traditionally hold a supernatural worldview. When you start holding a supernatural worldview and understand how supernatural your existence is, it leaves room for these kind of things to be, to be happening and understood. Listen, I know you got like one minute before you have to hop on another interview with a very important group of people. Can I say who it is? Well, I guess so, yes, because we're just talking about, you know, whatever it is, topics that they have in mind for me. But yeah, you could, I guess. Yeah.

Yeah. So we have to jet because you have a meeting with the Vatican. Yeah. Well, the Vatican news, yes. Yeah, so I'm getting the boot for the higher powers. Maybe they have to be, yes. Yeah. They're like, come on, man.

you're talking too much about the theological stuff. That's what we want to hit on. But no, there's so many questions I have for you. The idea of the metallic things or whatever the element or whatever he was asking for to your missing time. I would love to do this again with you and fly you down to the studio and have you sit here, no time limits and just kind of have a great conversation. But before we get out of here, Jason, is there anywhere you like to point people in direction as to where to find you and stuff? because I know I found you on X. Yes. I'm on X mainly.

I do have very little contact on any other platform right now, unless you know me personally, then you'd have my email and some other things. But X is where I prefer to keep contact. I believe that it's a good platform for our freedom of speech, as well as these sorts of topics that we can speak freely. That's where I prefer to do this. So it's just my name, Jason T. Sands, all one word, on X.

That's where you can find me. I also have my firsthand fund, which I'm trying to stand up right now to help other whistleblowers. If you wish to donate to that, that's also posted to my profile. And I think there's been some other venues also, interviewees that have also posted that up. But if you wish to donate to that, I'm trying to help out the other whistleblowers, because I know there's a lot of people still in the program that I think might have concerns. also and I want to give them a bridge that I didn't have when I came forward and I want to make it better for them. So that's what that fund will be for. That's awesome, man. Well, people can

definitely go check it out and Jason, I appreciate you hopping on with me, man. Yeah, that was great. And I'll have some more discussion, I'm sure. It seems like every month I have at least two or three more discussions coming my way. It's like I never imagined I'd meet the NOSCA mummy folks, you know? And we actually did a space me and Digby Ferno and and Tom Thompson and Sarah Bond, we're all getting to talk about how they actually went through that whole process with the mummies.

So that was, but just like I said, I never imagined that, but that happened this month. Next month, I've got other things coming, so we're going to have a lot of things to catch up on from time to time.

So yeah, I'd like to come back on the show and update you guys. Awesome, man. I appreciate it. Sometimes I feel alone when I'm looking at myself because I look down in a row,

full all about those broken nails. So I just try to call. Swirming off the road I used to do it for the roses adulation So they noticed used to say they weren't my focus Lion Jones and for the Jones's things I know that everything that's going on can start to overwhelm Like the war on terror is just a war within ourselves

Are you vocal, are you weight genuine or are you fake I'm feeling like I'm sent by UPS with all the tape These boxes are all made by delusions that we chase But I'm just staying based Snakes are slither and they keep it snake She coming with a cake But how it's bait Is important

But so is what you bring Because being real Ain't acting like a king I feel I'm spinning round And about to crash Chaos all around This pressure mom Like I'm going around a circle

By the look at leashes on the collars Of these people follow monsters Like a mark why in the white It's easy to get bitter I'd rather dulcify I'd rather justify Anything by selling me Mike like a spelling bee

Face but you disagree I ain't had to change your mind I'm just hoping that you're little bit of what I'm saying I'll make you take a second and see that everything ain't adding up I know it's hard I know it's hard I feel I'm spinning round

and about to crash chaos all around I'm around a circle