The Confessionals - 774: A Deal in the Second Heaven

Episode Date: July 15, 2025

What if chasing fame in the music industry meant selling your soul, and someone actually asked you to? Christina Chaney was on the brink of stardom when a top-tier producer casually offered her instant fame, if she’d make a deal with the devil. That terrifying moment unraveled a string of supernatural encounters, including a vivid out-of-body experience in the second heaven where Satan himself tried to recruit her. Now a worship leader and deliverance minister, Christina exposes the hidden spiritual war pulsing behind the music industry, and how music has always been a battlefield between light and darkness.Please pray for Tony's wife, Lindsay, as she battles breast cancer. Your prayers make a difference!If you’re able, consider helping the Merkel family with medical expenses by donating to Lindsay’s GoFundMe: https://gofund.me/b8f76890Become a member for ad-free listening, extra shows, and exclusive access to our social media app: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinThe Confessionals Social Network App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZTony's Recommended Reads: slingshotlibrary.comGet your ticket for the NEW documentary premiering July 27, 2025 @ 8PM EST: "The Meadow Project"Ticket link HERE: moment.co/themeadowprojectMy New YouTube ChannelMerkel IRL: @merkelIRLMy First Sermon: Unseen BattlesSasquatch and The Missing Man: merkelfilms.comMerkel Media Apparel: merkmerch.comSPONSORSSIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsGHOSTBED: GhostBed.com/tonyCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] Chaney:Instagram | Church Instagram | MusicMAILING ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/theconfessionals/Discord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelProduced by: @jack_theproducerOUTRO MUSICJoel Thomas - ImposterYouTube | Apple Music | Spotify

Hey, everyone, before we get to this week's show, this is just your weekly reminder to please continue to pray for my wife, Lindsay. She is battling breast cancer right now, and we're praying for complete healing in Jesus' name. Thank you. Merkel. Media. This was all circulating around the base that a giant had to kill, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, bony fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me.

And this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing up this giant. With a giant moves, he's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast. And spears, Dan, holds him up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face. They basically decapitate him. I feel something pulling at my leg. And I look over and there are.

are two small gray entities pulling it. And they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed. I reached my hand into this bush, and I touch air. Couldn't breathe and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. Welcome to the show, everybody listening to The Confessionals Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here. If you've a crazy, wild experience, you want to share with me on the show, go ahead and

shoot me an email. My email address is contact at theconfessionalspodcast.com. That's contact at the confessionalspodcast.com. or go to the website, the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the contact section, and you can reach me that way as well. Although it works for me, just get a hold of me. If you want more shows on a weekly basis on an exclusive social media network that's designed for people like you, become a member to the confessionalspodcast.com. All you got to do, go to the confessionalspodcast.com slash join, sign up to become a monthly or an annual member, and you'll get access to all the extra episodes housed exclusively on the confessionals social media app. hope to see you on the other side. Now, before we get into today's show, I want to let you guys know that we're extending themercmerch.com sale one more week

because there's been a lot of people going to the store and ordering that merch. We're trying to purge the shelves so we can put more stock in. And so go tomerchmerch.com right now. Get your favorite t-shirts on sale discounted right now for the rest of this week until next Tuesday, July 22nd. And if you don't know, now you know. The Meadow Project is the next documentary hitting the show. streaming service. But first, we are doing a live premiere. And that is going to be on July 27th,

2000, 2025, the Meadow Project. If you want your tickets to see the world premiere of the Meadow Project, all you got to do is go to the link in the description of this episode, moment.com slash the Meadow project. And that will take you to where you need to go. Get your tickets and be part of the world premiere of the Meadow Project exclusively at Moment.com. slash the Meadow Project. All right, today we have Christina Cheney coming in studio, and she has an amazing story where she actually was rising the ranks of the music industry. She's done songs with Busta Rhymes and other artists,

and one day her music producer pulls her aside and says, if you want to continue your fame and take it to the next level, you should strongly consider selling your soul to Satan. She comes on the show today to talk about this, her story of how this all unfolded, and then we did a second recording with her and her, husband here in studio and that recording is going to be housed especially right now on Merkel IRL. All you got to do is go to YouTube, look up Merkel IRL. It is another YouTube channel that I have.

That conversation is going to be housed right there. So when you're done listening to this episode, head on over to Merkel IRL, hit subscribe and watch the second recording with Christina and her husband, Stefan. Let's get to Christina right now. Today we have Christina Cheney in studio. How are you? I'm well and I'm honored to be here Tony. I'm glad you're here. And just to let the audience know moving into today, we're going to talk about your life story, your testimony, and how kind of God, you found yourself in the music industry and being pulled out of that through supernatural means, I perceive. And we're going to have a good conversation. And then we're going to do a part two where we have your husband come on with us.

And we're going to actually move over to if the audience doesn't know, I don't know if the audience really knows it don't talk about a whole lot. but I have another YouTube channel called Merkel-IRL. We're going to be changing the name to it. And I know what the name's going to be, but I'm not telling anybody yet because we're coming out with a brand new branding and it's going to be on that channel. But we're going to put that second conversation on that channel for people to, because we're going to really go deep on your relationship where your husband has come from, his testimony, and just like where God has brought you guys together as a family,

which I think is awesome. So, but today I want to kind of talk. to you for this recording on your testimony and how it all unfolded for you. So if you could maybe introduce yourself to the audience as to who you are, how you got involved in the music industry, and we'll kind of start tackling some of the things that happened while you were pursuing that lifestyle. Yeah. So, well, my name's Christina Cheney. That's my married name. I made a name is Christina Segarra. So that plays into my stage name. But I was brought up in New York. My family, my mom specifically recognized my love for music and invested me in like dance classes

and singing because at church I was always in the aisles. I was always at the front just dancing, worshipping as a little little baby but didn't really understand. And so she wanted to cultivate that gift in me. She grew up abused and suppressed so she didn't want that for her children. So fast forward as I'm growing up and I'm exposed to, you know, BET or MTV or VH1, I'm seeing a very distinct contrast between music in the world versus what I'm seeing at church. And at church, I enjoyed singing and worshiping, but it felt very restricting compared to what I was seeing on TV. And what I was hearing, you know, that's devil's music. Don't, you know, you shouldn't be listening to that. You know, there's demons in L.A. Like, all of these things that I thought was just,

just, oh, you're just being overdramatic. You're being superstitious. That's not even real. Even though as a child, I witnessed some pretty radical things in church, but I didn't have the comprehension. Like what kind of things? Like demons being casted out of people or people speaking in a, in an unknown tongue. I have the knowledge of that now, but I didn't see it as real as a child that I just thought people are going crazy in church for, you know, out of all these other places. But so I was like, I remember thinking, because I danced in in the youth ministry and all these things, but I felt kind of, don't do that or don't, it just felt very, like we're suppressed. So I remember thinking, you know what, when I'm 18, I just can't wait to just not go to church anymore.

Because I just, I didn't, I couldn't connect. And I'm a very expressive person with music and dance, but I couldn't connect that way, at least in my church growing up, I felt. So I was like, when I'm 18, no more church, I'm going to go and really pursue this thing for real. And my parents were pretty liberal in that they allowed me. I meant I'm an adult. They can't really tell me what to do, right? And I was kind of stubborn too.

And I was like, I'm going to have my way. But they're always praying for me. But I was like, I'm going to do this. So I would just audition. I remember my first big gig was the Florida Marlins dance team. Okay. And that kind of opened my world up to the just production and entertainment industry because you're meeting more people in the limelight.

So that was like my introduction. And with music, it just started off small and local recording basements, studio basements, makeshift studios, and then I went out a lot, clubbing. So as a Florida Marlins, mermaid were called, we went to the clubs a lot. That's interesting. They call you mermaids too, because there's a whole, there's a whole supernatural thing with that too. Cirens and all of stuff. Yeah, yeah. And we don't even, we don't have to go down there right now. But, but yes, so we were always out. We got paid to go out and just be like hosts of these parties. And so we're meeting celebrities. We're meeting producers.

And so I sing. And people know I sing. So they're telling people, Christina sings. And so, hey, come to the studio, meet so-and-so. So that was kind of like how I started getting into the industry just by meeting people. And I really think the enemy knew the call on my life. Because I would get prophesied over as a child, but I didn't, you know, really understand then. But he knew.

And so parading all of these opportunities before me, I'm young, naive. I just want to sing and dance. I'm going to say yes. But I have a Christian foundation. So certain things I just won't do. I won't get naked. I'm not going to curse in my songs. But I'm going to still see how far I can go while still preserving my Christian worldview,

which was very limiting because I wasn't in my Bible. But I still had that fundamental ground. So fast forward, really, I start working on an EP because I had met someone who eventually became my manager, which was actually like a boyfriend. who just knew people and saw the talent that it has. So we're just meeting producers, working on songs, and now we're getting it shopped for label deals, like major label deals.

It was really common for independent labels to kind of form and then get a bigger deal so that it's just, I don't know why that's a big thing, but it's, I mean, now you're seeing it. Just independence is like the best thing right now. But, you know, the goal was to get that major label because there's money there. There's big money there.

And so the goal is to get that one song. So now I'm in this. I'm performing at local clubs in South Florida. I don't think I said that from New York, moved to South Florida. So I'm in Miami at this time. And I'm working with a producer who's worked with, I mean, everyone, he's worked with Michael Jackson. I have to say this because it's on the comments everywhere. It's not Rodney Jerkins.

I just have to say that. It's not Dark Child. This is not the man I'm talking about. So there's... Someone else. Yeah. Like whenever you say you throw breadcrums out to people.

Yeah, they just make this whole thing. And it's so easy to go on like chat, CheapT, and they'll say, because I heard you say, it was Michael Jackson and somebody else. Destiny's Child. Right. Yeah.

And so it's easy to go and look around and be like, okay, tell me who this is. You know? Yeah, it's not him. I got you. So it was another producer who was very nice to me, nothing ever weird, except this one day where

we're taking a break from recording. I'm in, like, I have record deals on the table now between certain different major companies. So we're just trying to shop or find that one song. That's the goal is to find that one song that will penetrate every, like, nation, remove the divisions. It's always going after that one song that's going to make you this like household name. So we're finding this song. We take a break because I'm exhausted. And he's like, let's go for a walk.

So we go for a walk around the studio And he's like Just so nonchalant Like it's just You know you can go to Starbucks And get a cup of coffee right It was like So do you know that if you sold your soul

To the devil You can have instant fame tomorrow Almost as if he said it before to other people Took me away Because in the studio I had like I don't know if my mom was there She would often come with me

And or if I had like A friend there or something But we went away So he can tell me This like covert information But when he said this, it was like all the thoughts and all of the voices of the past, like super religious elders. Oh, demons and songs, don't, you know, it became real in that moment because I heard it from someone who's been in the industry for years. And when he said this, it was like a presence enter the rumor just manifested himself because I fell.

I could not stand. It was like the weight of the glory I didn't realize. Then I just felt conviction. and almost just so much conviction where I started crying out to God in front of this man. Like, forgive me for lying, forgive me for ignoring you, because I was ignoring God. I didn't want to follow God. His way seemed boring and restricting and suppressing. It didn't seem free, freeing.

And so I knew that I was turning away from God. So I'm crying out to God in front of this producer. And after, I don't know how long it's been, but after I'm crying out, I look up and he's sitting on it. chair with his head bowed in like reference. And we look at him and we never spoke of that moment. I think I said, I'm sorry, but he didn't say anything. We never spoke of that moment. We just kept working after that. Wow. I would say a few months later, we'll go into that story. Sure. Things just started crumbling shortly after, but we never spoke of that. I didn't tell anyone because it just, it seemed like very, like very private. It seemed like for me to realize that this is real.

you can't play around with this. You're not just singing. You're not just performing. There's something deeper going on within music that you need to know if you're trying to go down this road. So now after this moment, I'm thinking, okay, now I really can't curse in my songs. Now I really have to cover up. So I'm fashioning my own form of righteousness, yet still pursuing this lifestyle because I'm at the door.

I have met so many celebrities. I've entertained celebrities, like A-list stars, Grammy Award-winning stars in my home. And I'm like, I'm there. It's literally a matter of time. But yet I have this voice in my head, how much longer are you going to turn away from me? How much longer are you going to run away? But I'm like, no, but you don't know how much I want this. You don't know what I want.

You don't know what good is. This is just the lies in my mind. because I'm still listening to other songs. I'm around. I'm in these environments clubbing like every night with everyone you can think of, drinking, smoking, because it's the only thing that can really kind of drown out the voice of God. But God's more powerful than alcohol and drugs. But to me in the moment, it was like, okay, I just, I'm already sinning.

I'm already living this lifestyle. God doesn't want me. God is too upset with me. I'm just going to keep going until it got even more uncomfortable in my soul. spirit. So now it's, you can stop me to ask questions. I do want to ask you, because I don't want to forget to come back to this. You mentioned that when you were a child, there was prophecy spoken over you. Yeah. Was that about music? So I don't remember if it was about music, but it was always about that I would be on stage leading people to Jesus. So there was always a stage involved,

leading people to Jesus. And I sang and danced, so put two and two together, right? Yeah. And so that was a word of prophecy, even sometimes like strangers. If I'm at a restaurant, the Lord told me to tell you that you're not following him and that you need to give him your life. And I'm just like, wow. Just randomly. And I knew in my spirit that these were words of truth, but I had such a blindness to the goodness of God and the bountifulness of God that I just was so driven to my goal and my view of what success and what my life was. It was like the only thing I could look at at that time. So the lore started to kind of peel back the curtain, even in dreams and things. So in this point of my life, I'm like 21. I can't sleep well. I feel like there's always things in my room.

I'm having horrible nightmares. So I'm smoking a lot to kind of help me fall asleep. I didn't realize it at the time. Cigarettes, of course, right? No. Green stuff. So I'm also like entertaining these relationships that aren't, are even adding more pollution, adding more spiritual pollution, like other thoughts, other religions, new age thoughts. You know, Jesus wasn't real. He was just a man. Like, just other, contrary to the gospel. And because I'm not walking with God, I'm susceptible to believing these.

And I remember I'm just out, again, partying. I'm in New York. I would travel a lot for performing and things like that. And so at this time, I have a deal with Universal Republic. We're still trying to find that one song. I have tons, I have hundreds of songs. We're still trying to find the one song that will take over the world because, again, music is a weapon. Yeah, it's a gateway for sure.

It is, it's meditation. You become what you hear. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. If you're not hearing God's word, what are you hearing? You're going to become that. So I'm parting like I always do. So it's not a random or, you know, unnormal or abnormal or abnormal. night, rather. And I get back to the room. And I'm sure at this point, I'm at my, my manager's house or

apartment in New York. And it's like the moment my head hits the pillow, because I told you before, I've always had dreams and just nightmares, right? But the moment my head hit the pillow, I close my eyes, I'm immediately somewhere else. Like, I'm not on earth. Like, I'm in, in my mind, I'm thinking, I'm in space. I know now it was a spirit realm, but it was like I was, space, like outer space, like above the earth, looking at the stars, looking at the galaxies, and I'm just like, whoa, it felt so real, so much more real than me talking and breathing this oxygen. And I remember looking around and thinking, wow, God, because I'm still a Christian.

I still have a knowledge of God and his, I guess, you know, conditional goodness. Yeah. But I'm just like, thank you for letting me have this amazing experience because I love stars. I love, you know, the just universe, the universe. I'm trying to, when I get to this point of the story, I start talking fast because I'm almost like reliving it. But I'm, so I'm in outer space and I'm looking around and I'm wow, wow, this is amazing God. And I'm looking and I see the earth kind of beneath me on the right side. And it looked, it didn't look like the globe.

It looked just like a big lake or like, you know, massive. Just the ocean. You're going to trigger the flat earth people right now. I know, I am. But remind you, this is the spirit. realm. Things don't really look the same like they do here. This is the spirit realm. And, and I don't want to go down there. But it did look like very, just a body of water. And then I remember looking past the earth. And I thought it was the sun at first glance. And it just looked like a suspended lake of fire. And I thought that

was interesting. It's like, so the more I start analyzing my space, I'm like, wait, what's going on? And so the sun, which wasn't the sun, that looked weird. And I'm looking at it. I'm like, what is that? And then this being starts to come in focus. And he's huge, like bigger than the earth, bigger than that lake of fire, huge, taking up everything that I'm seeing. And he flows towards me. And the lights from the stars and just the galaxy stuff is illuminating his backside. So I can't see any features. He's just blacked out. He looked bald in appearance and huge, I mean, muscular arms, like a humanoid physique. And I'm going down his body and his legs are descended into the darkness. Like I can't see feet or anything. It's just legs and then darkness.

But what alarmed me was the way his hands looked. They looked like claws. Because at first approach, I'm thinking, this is a supernatural being. This is God. Because surely bigger than everything I'm seeing. So I'm like, Lord. But the moment I look at the hands is like something's not right. And when he spoke, he said, no, you know who this is. And those words pricked my spirit because they weren't audible. It was like I felt his words. It was like, because mind you, I wasn't living for God. And I was that type of Christian that would pray before I go to sleep. Forgive me for this. Because as long as I ask God for forgiveness, I can go to heaven if I die. That was my thought. Get out of jail, free card.

Right. Yeah. So very like a very superficial Christian. But when he said no, you know who this is, I, my first thought was, oh no. I missed it. I died in my sleep. And now I'm being escorted to hell. Like, oh no, there's no turning back. So I start, no, no, that hopelessness. I'm like, no, no, no, no. That hopelessness. And he said to me, shut up. Almost like he's on a time limit. He said, shut up. If you worship me, I will give you all these things. And he's talking fast. So then it's like this kind of peace comes over me. Like, wait, what's going on?

So I look at the earth because the earth is shifting like images on the surface. And I'm seeing, he's like, if you worship me, I'll give you fame. I'll give you success. I'll make you a number one artist. I'll give you this, the grand relationship. All of these things is appearing on the earth. And I'm looking at it. I'm like, oh, this is, I'm not dead. This is my time to choose. So I said, no, I'm the daughter of Christ. And then when I said that, he called me the B word. I don't like that word. Call me the B word. And I was alarmed. I'm like, he uses our language. like our vernacular. And so after that, he called me the B word. Like he was mad that I made that

decision. And I just flung back like a vacuum. And I woke up as if I don't know, I was out for hours, but it wasn't hours. Because I remember it was like really early in the morning. Like I want to say four or five because the sun wasn't up. But then the sun was just dawning. Like so maybe six. So maybe this was a two hour experience. I don't know. And after I woke up, I wake up, up and I'm like, did that just happen to me? Was that? Did that just really happen? Because it's, that state was more real than me waking up. It was like, this is, this is the dream. So now I'm, I'm shaking. The only thing I can think of was to call my mom. So I get my phone and I go into the bathroom. And I call my mom and I tell her everything that happened and she believed me and she

immediately started praying for me. And I fell on the floor again and I'm just crying. out like forgive me Lord, I don't know what to do. Like I think I thought I had my life mapped out. But if it's at the expense of eternal separation from you, I don't want it. You have to show me what to do. And so after this was probably like a Thursday. I remember being a Thursday. I canceled all my plans. I had so many plans. So many things. In the music industry, there's so much money on the line too. So I just remember I need to go home and go to church I need to seek God because it wasn't just an experience with this random being

because I don't know demons. I know God and I know there's a devil. And this thing said to me, you know who this is. My first thought, it's Satan. Because the only person who has authority to give you things like that is Satan. He did the same thing that Jesus in the garden. And I'm not saying I'm Jesus,

but he's still doing that to people. And I had to really like find the Lord and really seek him. So I just go home and at this point, home is Florida because we ended up moving to Florida when I was in high school. And I go to church and the pastor on Sunday is talking about the three heavens. He's talking about the first heaven being, you know, our atmosphere, the clouds, the second heaven being space where the celestial beings, you know, the planets are and stuff.

And then the third heaven being where God's throne is, which was what Paul talks about. And I'm thinking, oh my gosh. I was in the second heaven. And that was like the following Sunday? That's that two days later. Wow. Two, three days later. And I'm like, I was in the second heaven.

I was in space. But space where I was, I remember I could feel the vibration. It was like everything was connected. It was like there's this, there was this pulse happening in that realm. And when Satan spoke, it wasn't audible words. It was words that my spirit felt. And it was, I always compared to standing next to a large base system. And when the base hits, you're vibrating.

like that's what happened. And as now reflecting, like, I'm like, I wasn't abiding in God. I was abiding in the kingdom of darkness. These words were in me. The Bible says, if you abide in me and my words abiding you, this is God speaking, anything you ask. So like the words, words abide in us. And so if they're not words of life, it's words of death and deception. So after having this revelation that I'm in, I was in the second heaven, this is really. real, God, you need to show me then because I don't know my top from bottom. And this is when, you know, the road to really repenting started to happen for me. Like true repentance, not that, you know, superficial, I'll pray before I go to sleep or if I'm on a scary airplane ride.

Like that real, like, God, I need you to help me follow you. Like, I think following you is not fun or it's, it's, you know, it's restricting or I don't know, but I need you to show me what it is who you are. And he, that's when he started to show me what to do. And like the first order was to say no to everything and follow him. I was like,

okay, what does that mean? Say no. Yeah. Because now I have a deal with Universal Republic. I have this indie label that I'm still signed to. There's a team under my my umbrella that there's money on the line. If I say no, they could sue me. He's like, I'll take care of it. Just when they call you, tell him, God says that you have to wait on him. I'm like, just like that, God says, they don't think I'm a crazy Christian. Like what? That's the only instruction I got. So I got a call probably because they knew I was weird. So not weird, but they know I was going through like a weird moment because after that dream, I said I was at my manager's apartment. So she heard me

crying in the bathroom. She's like, what happened? I told her the dream. She's like, it's just a bad dream. You know, don't worry about it. I'm like, no, no, no. Dreams don't change you like this. This is life altering. That was not just a dream. So she already started telling people that Christina's, you know, offer rockers. But when my label manager called me, he said, you know, what's going on? I'm like, I just, God told me you need to stop. And he's like, well, stop for how long? I'm like, I don't know. I just know I need to follow what he's telling me to do. And to my surprise, he said, okay, just keep us in the loop of your next steps.

I'll handle the rest. I was like, because in my mind, surely they're going to be like, well, you know you have a contract. And the dates, this, this, and that, none of that. Take the money. So, but what's funny is after that, I lose a deal with Universal Republic. The indie label is having money issues. This is all happening within, like, weeks time. So it's like God was closing the doors.

In my mind, it looked like I made the worst mistake. Like everything, like, how am I going to live? This is where my money's coming from. But the Lord, he really took care of me in that moment. And the next step was to fast and pray. And like fast, like not to eat. You need like no food? No food.

I don't know how. I didn't do the, for five days. I just fasted. I didn't have this calendar. I was like, I'm going to seek you until I can answer. And the next answer that I heard was move to L.A. I don't know how many days after, because I'm in Florida at this time. Some fasting, maybe a week, I don't know, but move to L.A.

And I'm like, because one, I didn't like L.A. I had one out there for red carpet events. And it's just, man, the paparazzi or mean. I believe it. I was so controlled in the music industry. How to wear your hair, who to be friends with, what to eat, how to answer, how to talk. And it's almost like the belly of the beast, right? I mean, it's like, really? L.A.? of all places?

Well, yeah, right. So I was like, Lord, if this is you, you have to confirm it. So I didn't tell many people this experience. I told my mom, my manager, and the pastor, I didn't, I don't think I shared this, but the pastor that preached that Sunday about the three heavens, I told him about my dream, and he didn't believe me. He was like, oh, you know, just seek God, whatever. He didn't believe me.

I'm not telling anybody this. This is crazy. So I fast and I told the Lord, confirm it with me. And my best friend was living in New York. And she called me one day, I don't know, maybe a few days later, girl, I have the most brilliant idea, we should move to L.A. And I took that as confirmation because I didn't tell her, I did not like L.A. She knew I didn't like L.A. But I was like, okay.

All right, Lord, please make the way. And then a few months later, I think it was December or no, October of 2012 is when I moved to L.A. And I'm thinking, okay, it's a fresh start. I have friends out here, not Christian friends, but I have friends that are in the industry. Maybe now I'll just start doing Christian music. Like, I'll just do that. I'm still thinking work mode, not sit and wait on the Lord

because I didn't know how to do that. But I go to L.A. And it really was sitting with the Lord. I mean, every door closed. No one wants to work with a Christian aspiring singer in L.A. Yeah, well, so the possession, crickets. Yeah. Nothing.

So I'm thinking, you know, I'm such a busy body. but the Lord kept saying, wait on me, sit, spend time with me. So I'm like, you have to give me the desire for that, because I'm still, I'm still trying to figure this out. And I had a friend that was living out there who said, come with me to church. I said, yes, I need church, okay? So I go to this church. And it was like my first time as in a, I guess my first time ever really experiencing the Holy

Spirit to that degree. I walk into this church and I'm seeing young people. In L.A. worshiping Jesus. And I felt like this is where God wanted me to be during this time of learning. And I'm in church every chance I get at this point. Now, I'm still struggling with sex and letting go of weed, smoking wheat. I'm still, it wasn't like an overnight deliverance. It was giving God every thought, like, what's next?

Okay, this is the next thing. So it wasn't just like this whole instantaneous deliverance. It was a walk. And God started highlighting certain things that I was bound in. Because I still had this sense of lowliness at night. And that's why I would smoke or entertain a relationship. And so I'm going to church. I'm trying to serve. I remember this one girl who led the prayer team at the time told me to join the prayer team. I was like, I don't know how to pray. I don't know scripture. What are you talking about? But I felt the Lord say go and love. learn. Like, he was doing something new in me. So I joined. I didn't want to join. I wasn't there all the time, but my roommate at the time who was my best friend, she was getting radically saved. So she was in church all the time, too, and we're kind of like, hey, come with me to this. She would wake me up at 4 in the morning for all night prayer. I don't want to wake up, but God used to drag me out of bed because it was hard for me at night still. It was like the attacks increased at night with the sleep paralysis or the demonic voices, like just multiple

voices, you're going crazy. The dream you had, that wasn't real. Because now I'm, it's like I'm aware of God's of the Holy Spirit now. I'm aware of the voice of God. It was very obvious, like the love of God. But I'm having these other voices that are like, God's not real. What you've had, all your experiences, you're, you're on the brink of psychosis, like a psychiatric breakdown. That was my thought. because I'm still, I want to follow God, but I'm still struggling with letting him into every area of my life. So there's this one guy that I was still kind of entertaining and was going to church, but still struggling. And he was very into new age stuff. So he was reading some book about God, not really being God, but being war and just very new age and very intelligently written.

Because I had read a small portion of it, they encouraged me to read. And we're also smoking too while we're reading this book. And I remember it made a case that Jesus was just a man very but very intellectually sound. And it was at that moment I felt hope and faith go. Like hope and faith is a power, as a source. And I felt it leave. It was like that same hopelessness that I felt before Satan. And I'm thinking, so I'm going crazy.

There is no Jesus because this cerebral was this message that I'm reading was so, sound and made sense. And I'm thinking, oh, no, I am going crazy. There is no Jesus. I'm losing my mind. I don't know what to do. So I had a breakdown, smoke and went to sleep. And then I wake up to Christina. Hey, everybody, want to pop in here real quick and let you know we're extending the sale at Merkmerch.com one more week. July 22nd is the cutoff. But there's been a lot of people buying merch and we want to give you one more week in case you missed that window. Merkmerch.com. Everything is on sale right now. Go ahead and check it out today. This is a voice you have to obey. It's like you have no choice. And yeah, go to get your Bible and go into the living room.

So I looked for my Bible, which was somewhere in the night stand near the guy. He was sleeping in my bed. I get my Bible and I sneak off into the living room. I'm sitting down in the living room like waiting, awaiting my next instruction. And then I hear open up to John 316. So I open up and I find it. And this is a scripture that you're supposed to memorize as a child, right? So I'm reading it. And I had never really understood that message, that passage of scripture. But I opened it up.

And it was as if the words, I'm reading them and the words are leaping off the page and coming into my eyes. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only begotten. son that whoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life. And the moment I read this, it was like an aha, eureka. I understand. You died for my sins. My sins is everything, depression, addiction, fear, confusion, everything. You died for that.

And I'm trying my best to explain the power of the gospel, but there's power in the message of the gospel itself. And it was like hope and faith came back. And now I knew it was like, I think I got saved that night because it was like, oh my God, Jesus, you're real. They who confess with their mouth, believe in their heart. I was like, I believed. And I was like, you're real. And then the next instruction was, sleep on the couch, tell that man to leave in the morning. So I told him the leave, didn't seem.

I'm like, okay, now what, Lord, spend time with me. You know, we get so quick to like want to do works. Yeah. And God's like, you need to sit with me. I need to teach you. I need to impart. You need to, we need to commune. So now I'm at this time, I'm not doing any music.

In L.A., I was doing some commercial work, like modeling commercial stuff. But I'm waitressing and I'm coming home and praying and reading. I want to read. I want that same experience with everything. And that's happening. It was like a week of sanctification, maybe two weeks went by, of me coming home and worshiping God by myself in my room. And experiencing his love, just me. in the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.

And I remember thinking, why don't people know about your love? Why don't people know that your word says the perfect love of God, cast out all fear. And he was doing that for me. And I remember thinking, why don't people know? He said, you'll tell them in time. Just keep sitting with me. Let me fill you up. Because there's so much deception.

There's so many voices. There's so much false teaching out there that the enemy is trying to steal from people. Even in his word, he says, many will come. in my name saying I am the Messiah, but do not be deceived. We have to know his word. And so the Lord was teaching me his word. Now I'm having all sorts of experiences. I mean, I remember watching, and I'm so thankful for, I have to say, this, platforms like yours, because in this time, I'm not really getting this information at church. At least I'm not able to find a small groups that's really teaching what I'm experiencing. So I need to know, am I still going crazy? Is this

really happening to me? Lord, are you, like, you're still having those thoughts, not realizing it's thoughts of the enemy trying to come against what's going on. Split your mind. Yeah, so I was experiencing the double-mindedness. And so I was watching someone on a platform, I think it was like a Sid Roth platform or something. I forget this man's name, but he was preaching about how the Holy Spirit is a person of the Trinity. He is a person, not a power, and he's right with you. If you're a believer, he's within you right now.

And I remember it was like that moment, he imparted another level of faith to realize that the Lord is in me, like physically in me. So I'm like, okay, Lord, if this is true, can you show me? Because I'm still struggling in my mind. And it was like, I heard lay down and watch this. I'm laying down. I'm like, okay. Now my toes start getting numb. And then the numbness goes all the way up to my top of my head, like everything. My nose, the tip of my nose is not my ears. You don't feel your ears, but I'm feeling numbness. Like a tingling feeling? Yeah. But numb. And I remember thinking, you

would freak out. I think, I might have a stroke. But it was like, this was the Holy Spirit saying I'm indwelling in every part of you. And I was like, whoa, because I'm numb. Whoa. You're real. But then it's crazy because I'm laying it. And then it went away, like really quick. I'm like, whoa. And then I start hearing, he's lying.

You're going crazy. Like a loud voice. And then I'm like, what is that? And then the Lord is like, it's the enemy. He doesn't like what's happening. You're being set free. And the Lord is like just focus on my voice. And so these are all in my spirit, right? It's not outside of me.

It's just in me. And then it was like, I'm like, okay. So I'm like, Lord, you're good. You're within me. You're faithful. Like whatever I know about God, I'm just saying in the moment. And then the voice is, oh, I thought. And now I realize I got set free.

That's why I get upset about these forms of, public deliverances, people talking to demons, God won't embarrass you. He's the gentleman. He's so gentle. And the secret place is a real place. And he'll deliver you, right? Like, I believe every Christian, these signs will follow. You'll cast out devils. You can cast them out of yourself. The Lord does it. It's just, he says, sit with him, seek him. And it's true. He delivers. So I experienced deliverance in my bedroom with the Lord, the Holy Spirit, the Word of God. And then from there was like, now, again, I'm like, okay, now what? Now I'm free.

I'm worshipping. I'm experiencing the communion of the Holy Spirit. And I go to church still. I'm serving now. I'm more joyful. I'm like, Lord, if it's just me and you and I'm still serving at a restaurant, so be it. I don't care. I need nothing else, but your presence.

I go home and I'm like sitting in my room like just like a hermit. At some point, I have to leave my room. right? So I remember I didn't want to go anywhere. And my roommate said, hey, come, come to our friend's house. And I'm like, oh, I don't want to go. I just want to stay home and pray. She's like, it's okay to hang out with your friends. So I'm like, fine, I'll go because I don't want to go anywhere. I just wanted to be alone with God. So I go to our friend's house. And everyone, I think it's just my roommate and I are that are Christians. She's getting delivered to, I feel like I'm finally set free. But everyone's,

there is not, they know, I think they were brought up Christian, but they backslid or maybe they just never believed. So everyone's there. They're smoking. I have conviction about smoking now, because I had conviction about sex where I wasn't sleeping around anymore. That weed still wasn't a conviction yet, because it's from the earth. It's natural, right? Yeah. Yeah. So they're smoking. They're like, here you go. And I'm like, all of a sudden, I'm like, I don't think I want to smoke. It's fine. It's natural. God won't, God won't, you know, condone this. or whatever. I'm like, oh, yes. So they knew you were following the Lord at that point. They knew because I was very vocal about it. My work, you know,

even certain, certain employees at my job would avoid me because they thought Jesus would, I remember one guy with, he literally did this when I walked past him. I'm like, what's up? He said, I don't want Jesus to strike me down. I'm like, oh, my God. So I was, you know, I was that person radically saved, proud of it. So they're, you know, they passed the joint. And I'm like, well, all right, I'll just do one hit, whatever. So I did one hit. that first hit it was as if like the chastisement. This is holy ground, right? This is the temple of the Lord.

I was like, oh, I need to go home and pray. I need to go home and repent. So I said, guys, I need to go home. It was very obvious. That was very uncomfortable at that moment. They're like, what is going on? I'm like, I just need to go home. I need to go home.

They're like, why? Guys, I need to go home and pray to my God. Okay? And they're like, let's pray here. And at first I'm like, no. But then I felt the okay of the Holy Spirit. I'm like, are you sure? They're like, yeah, let's circle up.

I'm like, but then I started feeling the joy of the Lord. Like, okay, everyone get ready. I've never led a prayer group. I joined the prayer team, but I still, I'm not confident. I'm not the one to pray out loud. I'm not even the person to raise their hands in church. I'm not that person yet. So I'm like, okay.

And I'm thinking, Lord, can you please guide this? Because I don't know what I'm saying. We circle up. And it was if I had another out of body experience. where the Holy Spirit took over and I'm just watching and looking around. And words of prophecy started being released to everyone in the room. I'm friends with them, but it's like those casual, like more acquaintance than friends. The only friend in there is my best friend.

So everyone's having moments of deliverance now. It's a whole revival thing happening. There was this one guy in the room who kept walking back to the kitchen. And the Lord was highlighting him to me because it was like I saw darkness just around him. And I remember thinking like, I don't know the guy. Like, what am I supposed to do? So the Lord said pray over him. So I said, you like, come here.

The Lord wants to pray of me. He's like, all right. So the Lord started speaking to him. And he's just, you know, he's pushing back on everything, right? And I remember it was like the Lord allowed me to see in the spirit really quick because I would freak. If I saw it too long, it freaked me out. It was like this demon on him, like crouched on his shoulder very big with his hands in his

brain, like in his brain. And you could see this in the spirit. In the spirit. It wasn't like I saw like here. It was just like really quick. Maybe in the physical, but it was so quick where it was like, whoa, okay, there's something in your mind that has a grip of your thoughts, identity and all these things. And he was struggling with a lot of things. Suicide or. That's okay. Okay. Ideations, if it's a problem with that word, Jack will mute it. He was suffering with, you know, like self-termination and thoughts and, you know, sexuality and things like that. And I just started praying. And I didn't know what to pray for.

At one point, I got overwhelmed and intimidated. I'm like, this thing wouldn't leave. And it was like taunting me and making fun of me. And I just discern that. And I remember, I remember, I'm like, what do I pray? And all of a sudden, it was this stirring happening in me. And I'm like, oh, I'm very dramatic. Because this is exactly how it happened.

I remember, whoa, whoa, whoa. And then tongues came out of my mouth. Really? Yes, I had never spoken in tongues before. I did not know what to pray for. And the Bible says, when you don't know what to pray, this intercessor will pray for you. So now I'm laying hands on him and he's bawling. And I discern the thing leap off and crawl out.

I just discerned it because I remember it was like fire. It was hot. I remember feeling like, man, is there actually fire in the room? Because it got hot in the room. And I remember it was like the Lord was speaking and it was I had never felt so much power even to this day in my life. Like there's moments of something like that, but it was like fire and this thing was crawling out because I remember my eyes were closed the whole time and I'm like doing this and it was like, get out of your demon. And it was just the reality of the supernatural world that we're not seeing, but it's very active. And I'm like, this is so real.

The power of your word, the sword of the spirit is the word of God. God. And so the Lord used that night to teach me warfare. And so now I knew, oh, this is this level of prayer language that's meant for the Lord to do. It's not for show. It's not, it's just the power of prayer and how it's the Lord. The Lord is the intercessor. And so I'm saying, I'm sharing all this to say how the Lord will teach you. I mean, you need the word because there's, again, there's a lot of deception. But what you're reading is very real. Like take God's word at its face of value. you. Like these things are real and they're still happening today. And I'm just a witness of some of the things that you've seen in scripture that's still happening. I'm just one of

the many people that God is delivering. So again, music is still like in the back of my mind. I still want to sing. But I'm like, Lord, I just want to serve you. And so it was like now that I got this prayer language, I felt, well, now I'm like, it's not that I felt ready. It was just like, what do you want me to do, Lord? And then it was just serve me. That was the next instruction, because before it was very much sit and wait, wait on me, wait on me, abide in me, and now it's serve.

So I just, all I know is really get involved in my church more. So now I'm on the prayer team for real, like praying at the altar and the Lord is teaching me through praying for other people and loving people and seeing people the way he sees them and seeing God's original intention and how the enemy tries to corrupt your gifts for the kingdom of darkness. when there's really only two kingdoms, the kingdom of God and his mission and the kingdom of the dark of the enemy, which is to kill, steal, and destroy your life. And so please guide me because I'm, you know, I'll keep talking. No, you're fine.

But it was like now, now it was, Lord, I want you to give me desires because I have an idea of what I think I should do to serve. But I want your desires to really help because we can take things and do things that God in tells us to do. And that's when you start to see things kind of blow up in your face, like the seven sons of Skiva, I think, where they try to cast out a demon, the demon beat them up. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So I had to really be mindful of, I want to do what you want me to do. And also ask the Lord to remove the lies that busyness means productivity. And that's not true.

Lesson I'm learning right now. Business is not productivity. Like, God, you can be on this earth to win one soul and that be enough. and you get crown with the crown of glory, you know, crown of the promise, there's crowns he's given away, are rewards in heaven. And God was starting to teach me

about the eternal life, an eternal reward and storing up for yourself, treasures and having really making this a reality for my life to not, you know, being in the industry, you still have this carnal desire

and you have to be like, Lord, take away the desire for a platform. If that's still in me, take it away. If I have jealousy in me, take it away. If I still have,

you know, like a sexual, thing that's not healthy, take it away. And he was. And so now I'm in this place for real, where I'm in church. I'm witnessing to my people at work, like non-believers at work, bringing them to church. And I'm just like, Jesus is so good. And then I end up meeting my husband, you know, along the ride. He's also being delivered and we're in prayer groups together. But we're just serving God faithfully. And we end up getting married shortly after. I mean, When God does something, he expedites it.

But it's as if I have to say this clearly because, you know, the Bible says that he's a lamp onto our feet and the light upon our path. But he also tells us to wait on him. Like that's probably the biggest thing and the hardest thing for us as Christians or as people seeking God is waiting. That he really honors his word. The Bible says to seek him and everything else would be able to be. it to your life. And that's what happened to me. I just, the moment I felt like I need to do something,

like, wait, let me slow down. Let me seek you God. Because you said you'll add it. You'll, you'll be the path. You'll illuminate my path. And he did that. I'm, I started singing in church. I remember having a vision in prayer because the worship team was, it almost felt hard to get on. You got audition and stuff. And I'm just like, oh, audition. Come on audition. Do you know who I am, really? It was more like, not like that. It was just like, I tried auditioning. they said no. They said no. I got denied the first time.

So even an audition? No, to audition and they said at this time, whatever. I'm just like, Lord, is that even what you want me to do? Because I had a vision of it. And he said, when the time is right, I'm like, all right. So I eventually joined the worship team. And that singing on stage, he started teaching me worship is not performative. This is not performance.

This is warfare. You are interceding for people. You are ushering in the presence of God, the power of God, the glory of God. God worship music singing is a weapon of war. And the Lord started teaching me that when I was worshipping because I would start see shame on people, guilt on people, on forgiveness. And I would start singing to a person. Like Lord, may your love, you know, like interceding for them through song.

And I learned, oh, music isn't just casual. You can't just casually do music. Because if you casually do music, you're not doing it for God. The enemy is going to use it. It's a portal. So I remember, you know, because I would miss music. I'm like, Lord, I still want to do this. I told you for remove, remove desires.

Like he removed a desire to act. I want to act. I can, but, you know, he removed it. So I'm sitting there. I'm like, Lord, you know, I'm looking through old portfolio of music. And I heard this one song, man, I can't believe I sang those kind of lyrics. And I went to sleep that night. I think I had like, I think I had my second child at this point.

And in this dream, this is a dream now. This isn't the experience out of body. It was, I'm clearly aware I'm in a dream. I'm like, okay, Lord, and I'm aware that the Lord wants to teach me something. And the scriptures say that, you know, in deep sleep falls upon man in the visions of the night, he will seal the instruction on their heart. That's in Job. And so I'm in a dark room. And I'm standing, it was like I was placed there to, I'm just waiting what's going on.

And I remember this bright light over my head that I knew it was the, the. spirit of God, observing me. So I'm like, why am I here? And then this person comes out, just walks out, and he's looking at me. He looks so familiar. Like, I knew him. And I'm like, who are you? And his smile turned into this sinister, very wide smile, like the 1990s Disney cartoons, how they would have these very overly dramatic smiles. And he looked like a cartoon person. And I'm like, wait, wait. who are you? And he said, I'm Drago. And I Google that name. It's actually a demonic, like, deity or something. And so we're fighting in the dream now. He's trying to force himself on me. He's trying to inject, like, intravenous drugs. It was like a fast pace of how can I, how can I attack you? And I'm fighting, like, physically fighting him. I remember thinking, God, why are you letting this happen? I'm like, I rebuke you, you know, in the name of Jesus. And he's smiling and I'm thinking I have no power. I wake up. I'm like, Lord, what was that?

That was so upsetting to me. And he said, familiar spirits. And I'm like, okay, what are they? And then he led me into, I think it was in Leviticus, about not consulting the mediums and spiritists and familiar spirits and how they gain access to your life. So this could be through bloodlines, right? Occultic practices, music. And that night, I had listened to a song. One of your songs, right?

One of my songs. And God allowed me to realize I was imparting things through my songs before. And I had to pray, I was like, Lord, whoever has my songs, because my songs were on the radio,

you could download them on like SoundCloud and things at the time. I mean, probably could still do. But I was like, Lord, may you close any portals that I opened to my ignorance? And may you actually use those songs and start reminding people of Jesus. Because the Lord has so many ministers out,

planting seeds, right? So I'm just praying, undo whatever I opened. And that's when he started showing me, music is not just to perform. It's warfare. It's a, it's a portal. My presence can go in and heal. Like, it's a tool. And you see it a lot in scripture, too, where David wrote most of the Psalms in place of, he was being pursued by his enemies. And then would experience freedom and how Saul even brought David in to help play away the demonic torment that he was going through. So like if that happens, what can happen when you sing in God's presence and God's love could heal the whole world? Do you think that with music and being a weapon, obviously we know that Satan's job was music, you know, as an angel. And I believe it says that even when he moved, his movements created music.

Yeah. And we see the industry and how it's used as a weapon. Do you think that there seems to be... Because what you're talking about, it feels like there's an emphasis on music used the right way. It's almost like God is combating this... I hate to say this way because, I mean, he created Satan. So he created this problem almost, you know? But he's combating that problem with the weapon that that problem uses.

You know, it's like music is being almost reversed and flipped. And do you feel like now that you do you feel... find yourself in that kind of a battle where it's like you're, it's like you're using music now for as like a weapon of choice for the Lord against the enemy now? Yeah, absolutely. Because it's been such a battle to even get songs produced. So I have a song that I released in December. It doesn't have many views, but there's power behind it.

And just even getting like I would try to reconnect with certain producers that I believe would have done the job. But it was like it was always just dead projects. I'm like, why is this taking so long? It didn't take long when I was just, oh, I want to sing this song about so-and-so, or it was easier worldly than it is. I want to make a song that's going to glorify the name of Jesus. I want to make songs that bring people to him.

But then God also showed me that all it takes is one song. You were chasing the one song, but then you would have to keep chasing for the next. But in God's kingdom, one song can transcend time, dimensions, could last forever. And I had to start adopting eternal mindset. I don't have to chase this, you know, this portfolio of music that the industry teaches you. Once you have a hit, you got to have the follow up because you'll die out quickly. You'll, you'll, people will forget you, whatever. But it's not my job to be remembered.

It's my job to glorify the Lord. Like I need to focus on being nameless, faceless, and glorify Jesus. I always pray, like, Lord, when I speak on things like this and when I sing, may they may not be my voice because I'm not a great singer. But when God sings, I see what's happening. I see the healing and the deliverance happen. I'm like, this is what I was meant to do. And in those moments, I find my fulfillment. So I'm always praying, Lord,

I may have more opportunities to bring people to you through, through song, through music. And he's doing that. I'm seeing it happen in real time. And now it's like understanding that you're sanctified in God. So you're not going to be everywhere. You're not going to do everything. You are for a time and a season and a reason. Not to be, that's what the enemy does.

He over exposes. He strips you down. He makes you feel like you need to be seen by everything and everyone. And it's like you're not meant to carry that level of glory. You're not meant to be famous and be worship that kills you. And we see it happen in celebrities who experience overdose because of the weight of responsibility or just the emptiness that they feel because the glory belongs to the Lord. And so for my job as a Levite, I believe, I'm a worshipper, is to glorify him.

and my reward is him. Like when I get quiet and still, and it's just me. Like even my husband knows, I love my husband. I love my family, but I need my one-on-one time with the Lord because only in him I could get that freedom

and, you know, his peace and his presence. But yes, what music is a weapon. You even see it. Like I remember this case where this guy, which we see it often, which is so sad, he killed he shot up a i want to say a school and he heard said voices told him to do that and like you see this correlation between heavy metal and certain songs that produce like the the the

BPMs kind of produce a certain state of frequencies being we're seeing that becoming like more um informative like you're seeing the the reality and the scientific fact behind sounds and frequencies remember i said in the spirit in our space i think felt this unified frequency happening. So there is, there is a sound of freedom and there's a sound of death. Wow. There's a woman that I've had on the show several times. Her name is Dr. Laura Sanger and she talks a lot about frequencies and how it's used as a weapon of the enemy. And she even talks about, I think that hurts. Originally, it was, I forget how she breaks it down. But I think most music now is tuned to 440 hertz.

Right. And she talks about 444. 444, 445, even 500. Like now it's getting like into the higher. It's a lot of it's probably like not real. But I don't, I'm, I now I judge things a little bit more loosely because the demonic and the supernatural world is kind of being more exposed and brought out. So, but yeah, there you even, you can discern enough.

You listen to one song compared to enough. what mood does it bring you into? Just bring you into joy? Does it remind you of sadness? What does it do to you? Right. That's a key element. It's like what is it inspiring you?

Does it make you want to crawl in the bed and live in depression? That's clear sign that music is more than just it sounds nice. It makes me remember my deceased relative. Well, yeah, because there's power in it. Yeah, I kind of, I, I'm known for driving car rides like eight, ten hours and not listening to music. Sometimes I'll just drive in a quiet car. And I don't know why exactly, but I do know that there is this underlying thing where I, like, the inner me knows what music can do to me.

I mean, the audience knows my testimony. And like, I mean, I was, we were married for, I'd say, about four or five years. and I went through like a couple of years of very dark time. And music played a big role in that. Back, I don't know if he's still around two chains, but like I listened to a lot of two chains and the lyrics that he was saying, it became like a model of mine. I would turn it on, like it literally would turn on some songs to hear very specific lyrics in that song that I knew was there that was like what I was basing my life on at that time.

Yeah. And if that's not like a sign that music can disrupt, and corrupt, but even like people, I think people use music to even manifest this image of what they want in, in that moment of life. And I was, I was surely doing that. I would look at that now, I would say, that's former witchcraft. You know, it's like, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's so like, I, I, I tend to establish, because of that season my life, I'm scared, I'm a scared to, I'm scared to, to do certain things. Um, And I put up guardrails in my life and I kind of stay like 20 feet away from the guardrail kind of thing.

And so when it's music and stuff, even when it's like Christian, because I love hip hop. But even with Christian hip hop, I'll binge for a while. And I notice that it's becoming almost obsessive in a sense. And so I just kind of step back and I just put music away for a little bit because of that. Like right now, I'm probably coming up on a sense. season of putting music away for a while because I've been like, are you familiar with Jackie Hill Perry? Yeah. I love her music.

She's a lyricist. And I've noticed in the last like month or so, I've been just going on Jackie Hill Perry a tonne. I'm just like, I get nervous about like getting so attached to the idea of the music. Yeah. That it gets me, I feel like it gets me closer to that guardrail. And I don't want to get to the point where it's like, because like back in the day, it was Eminem for me. Like, I loved Eminem. And, you know, he's very dark, you know.

And I just, I get concerned that I, it's very legalistic. I understand that. But like, I get concerned for me. This is just a personal thing. I feel like if I give myself any certain leeways, I'm scared of what it's going to. I almost lost my marriage from it. And like, I mean, my kids wouldn't exist if I lost my marriage. And it's just, I don't ever want to get there again.

Yeah. So I, I say all this to say is like, I'm very aware of how. music can be used as a weapon. Yeah. And I think it's important for people to understand that as well. And it's not even just the music itself, but like you displayed over the last like hour of us talking how the industry is aware of how music can be as a weapon, you know? Oh, they know.

They absolutely know. And I also, I do want to share like that those who are in Christ, right, we are more than conquerors, greater as he who is in us. So I don't want people to think that you have to walk in eggshells, right? Being a Christian, that's not what it is. But it seems like you're very self-aware to know your boundaries, which are very healthy to set up boundaries, like you're doing anything else. This is where the Lord teaches us, okay, you used to turn right when you felt this way.

Maybe that's not turn right when you're feeling this way. Let's keep going straight. So understanding what your parameters are to keep your sound mind. Everybody's an individual. Everyone's an individual. So some people, if they keep listening to certain songs that will remind them of their days past, maybe you don't do that. It's going to make you feel like,

I should have done this and I regret and I could have, like, probably don't... Like, for me, it's like, I'll be listening to some... I'm trying to think, let's say Andy Minio, right? We love him too. Yeah, it's great, right?

So, and I also, like, I'm the kind of guy, I'll listen to a song on repeat all day long. I just love it, right? But I'll start noticing that, you know, things would come in my head like, oh, you know, that lyric reminds me of a lyric, you know, that was similar back in the day. And I start, I start finding my

brain migrate towards music that actually did damage me. And so, like, I just kind of, I have this weird methodology of how I kind of just stay away from certain things. So I usually go through periods where I just take breaks from music to let my brain detox and stuff. Yeah. I think that's very healthy. I don't, I think this is, when you find yourself going to certain things other than the Lord for your peace, for your comfort, that's where you, that even then, that can be dangerous too because the scriptures say if you know what to do and you don't do it, that's sin for you. So like if I know my husband likes me to bring him tea when I go to get coffee myself and I don't, that's sin on my account. So it's like God, only the Holy Spirit can teach you

that know what's right for you. There's things that are obviously wrong, but no one's going to know what the Lord is intimately doing in your heart. And so I think that's powerful because it's also showing the intimacy that God wants to have with us to show us how to cast down, imagine, that exalted themselves up against the knowledge of God. And the Lord knows, like, music is very powerful. It can remind you, see, if you had kept doing music, you would have been the next Brianna or Beyonce. But you decided to, but I'm so far down the narrow road at this point where it's like,

I don't care anymore. Like, my life is not my own. Was that like a setup for you in your career before all this happened? Like, was that like a path that was viable for you to be like the next? Yes. Pop star. It was often said to me. My hair had dyed at red at one point, like a deep red.

And when I came out of the salon, the label people saw me and were like, why did you do that? I'm like, what do you mean? Like, you got to keep it the blonde or whatever because their pictures are already with the blonde and whatever. A couple weeks later, Rihanna dies her hair red. So now I got to dye my hair back to like a blonde. I can't have a red now. So, because they're already comparing me and putting me up next to like in this. Because I had, my music at the time was like contemporary, very like Katie Perry, Rihanna type of vibe.

So I had to. And then also I'm Puerto Rican. So I still have that demographic. So now it's like it was exhausting. Like I just want to sing, but you have to be mindful of your competition. There's no competition in the kingdom. It's freedom. You're glorifying God, not your image.

So the Lord. had to demolish, I'm not an image, I'm a child of God. And it's all about his image. And, you know, there's also maturity in that and sitting with him and learning, hey, even TV shows. I remember I bingeed watch, what's that show, Vampire Daries when I was pregnant with my, our first. And my husband worked a lot and I was home pregnant. So I couldn't work. So I'm watching, I'm watching vampire tires. I also wasn't praying a lot at this time. Why? Lasiness? I don't know. And I didn't know at that time, but I was having a lot of demonic. My husband will tell you, I would wake up in the name of Jesus because I would see things in the room or some things pressing on my chest when my son was three months old. There was, I woke up because I felt this eerie presence in the room, but I had the sleep paralysis again. And I'm thinking, what now? And I look over at my son because he was, he was.

sleep in the bassinet nearest. I look over at him and there's this there's this hooded person like you're awake and you're saying. I'm awake. I'm laying down just like this and it's a hooded person. I thought it was a person in the room hovering over my three month old. And I remember trying to say, hey, but when I couldn't move, I knew it was a demonic presence. And I'm like, and I wanted to say in the name of Jesus, but I couldn't. So I felt weak. I felt defeated. And I'm like trying to say, get away from my son. And I rebuke you in the name of Jesus. And it flashed from being over him to being over me. I'm like, name of Jesus.

And it went away after all this pushing. What was that? And God started to show me, like, you have to guard what you watch. And pregnancy, that is such a vulnerable place. You see it happen with women. Worst case scenarios, you know, having horrible moments with their children because of their postpartum depression and it not being addressed and realizing that I just have to say this. if you're a woman watching this and you have a child, a young child or your postpartum or whatever,

the Holy Spirit, there's power in the name of Jesus. And he will save you in that dark time. He will save you if you cry out to him. He's power. And, you know, God was showing me, you've got to really guard the things you watch, especially if you're called to a level of work. And I didn't realize what my level of work as he started, you know, showing me and I'm walking with him and I'm really sanctifying my eyes. ears so that I can hear from him and see him clearly. I'm like, I'm called to cast things out. I'm called to preach the gospel. I need to remain sanctified. And that's when he says to be holy for I'm

holy, it's not that we can't. It's that we can in him. And it's like, how much do you want to live for him? How much do you want to work for him? Because we can be co-laborers with Christ. And the more you pursue him, the more you fall in love with him, the more you want to please him. And the more amazing your life ends up being. Like, I could not have fashioned my life the way it is now with my wonderful marriage. We've married for 10 years now. We have three beautiful boys. This is not easy. They drive us crazy. We need God for everything, right? And I can't, like, now we're planning a church. It makes no sense. None. I'm not qualified. I love the Lord. You qualified then. I know his word. Yeah. And I just want him to get the glory. And I want people to know the love that I know in God,

more. And that's where we find ourselves now. It's just the more, the more you walk with the Lord, he says it in his word that you can't follow him unless you die to yourself. And this is a daily thing. Every day you're going to have something, a challenge, a temptation to want to go your way or God's way. And I believe the road gets even more narrow. The more you follow and the closer you get to that, whatever our finish line is on the earth. But, everyone, I want to take a break real quick and talk to you about the new social media network, the confessionals just launched. That's right. The Confessionals has its own social media platform exclusively available to members to the confessionalspodcast.com. This is a social media platform that houses all the extra content on it.

Plus, you get access to your own personal profile that you can post things on. You can comment on episodes, repost episodes, like episodes, comment and reply to other people's comments. You can private chat. You can have access to groups. You can tag people with their handles on the app so they can actually be notified when you comment. back to them. This is literally a social media platform that has all the extra content housed on it. And it's just a great way to socialize with other people that have similar mindsets as you. So if you're a member and you haven't got the app yet, go ahead and download it from the app store.

And if you're not a member and it sounds appealing to you, consider becoming a member today to the confessionalspodcast.com. But as you say that, it's the fulfillment in that narrow way, though, is, is incomparable. And comparable. And you mentioned about earlier about how, I think it was when you were talking about prayer. I don't know how, or maybe it was like the idea of not knowing how to follow God or something like that. Or it was boring or something. I can't remember how you said it.

Yeah. But it reminded me because, so I was raised Pentecostal. I go to a charismatic church. Me too. Yeah. So, but I went to Bible College. It was somebody's a God at Pentecostal school. but I roomed to the bunch of people who were Calvinists.

And that was a whole other season of my life, learning other theologies and stuff. But one of the people they exposed me to, which I still love his teachings, is John Piper. John Piper, he's retired now. He used to have a church in Minnesota. He still preaches. But one, the way he preaches and teaches

is with such passion, burning passion, it's infectious. Yeah. But he really, one of his most famous sermons and teachings is what he calls Christian hedonism. And it's basically the more you pursue God, the more you're fulfilled in that. And your fulfillment in him glorifies him. When you glorify him, he turns and gives you more of him. And then that more of him becomes more glory to him because you get more of him.

You're just like, whoa, you glorify him more. It's this vicious cycle where it's not God being this jealous God because he's this, the way we understand jealousy, but he's a jealous God because he literally wants the best for us. And he knows that if you glorify me, I can show you more of my glory. And then you're going to glorify me more. And he's jealous for our detention so that he can bless us, right? And I think when we're in like maybe the beginning stages of our spiritual walks and stuff, We're like, how do we, like, I don't even know, I don't know what it means to do this.

Right. It's literally just taking that first step, like you mentioned. And you just start taking these walks step by step. And it's not going to be perfect. But the more you do it, just the more that you're glorifying him and the more he illuminates that path. But it is narrow. Yeah. It is narrow.

He is love. And he is provision. And it is narrow. But you see it even in Revelation where the 24 elders constantly throw their crowns before him and say, holy are you God? It's as if it's the first time they're saying it. So there is this constant revelation of God's eternal nature. He's forevermore. So we will never stop at an arrival state of God's awesomeness.

It'll just constantly, it's a perpetual revelation of him being alpha omega. Yeah. And the enemy, because this is still the domain of the principality, you know, there's, there's, it's, it's like pollution. You're breathing it in, you're eating it. You're, it's consuming you. That's why we need Christ to be washed by the water of the word, the blood of Jesus. It purifies so that you can see. So you can hear, like when Paul says, was it, I was blind, but now I see or not Paul, the man who God healed from blindness.

I was blind, but now I see. Like, that's a real thing. There's physical blindness and then there's spiritual blindness and deafness. We have spiritual senses as well. And pursuing God, the more you presume, the more you'll know about him. We'll never stop getting to know how amazing he is. I want to ask you a question about back when you were pursuing the music industry, we've established the spiritual conflict and warfare within the industry.

You had your own run in with somebody who literally says to you, you know, if you sell your soul of Satan, you know, you're going to have instant fame and all these different things. Now, I've talked to several people throughout doing this show. I've mentioned you, I had Isaiah Robin here last week, and he had a meeting with Jay-Z at one point. I've had other people on the show who's worked with Jay-Z and Rock Aware. And, like, I want to preface this with everybody that I've talked to so far, as far as I can recall, doesn't have a, yeah, Jay-Z was sitting around a circle and doing these chants and you know they don't have that story right but uh you you've you've you've worked with i know you worked with buster rhymes on the song um and some others uh in the working with these artists

that are established in the industry uh that we are identifying as a dark industry was there ever a time in in your darkness because you you've shown that you you've toyed with god throughout this whole process. Was there ever a point in that in that time where you saw these people and you you had a feeling that there's darkness on this person in that moment? Yeah. So some, you know, the obvious one is occult practices like obvious witchcraft and obvious devil worship. But people fail to realize that like drug, drug use is a doorway. And so whenever you have to have alcohol, drugs, you know, sexual exploiting activity happening, that's a cult practice. You need some kind of substance or some kind of, you need to be in a sort of state of mind to produce music.

And you see a lot with a lot of artists needing to have this thing before they lay down or write records. So I would often see lines of Coke. I never did it, but my thing was my vice was smoking weed because that was the thing that kept people a little more comfortable with me because I always talked about being a Christian. Even though I wasn't, you know, the perfect Christian. I mean, no one is. but, you know, I wasn't living holy. Yeah. So I would smoke to make people feel more comfortable with my presence.

So that it was like, okay, she's cool. She's at least willing to go here. Yeah. But the moment they pulled out the harder stuff, I was like, oh, man, like, you do this too? You drink all that too? I didn't realize you did that. Like people that, people idolize and don't realize how empty these megastars are. And I just don't feel like I need to say the names, but just a lot of them.

And so it was when I saw that that I'm neighboring, I'm rubbing shoulders with this, it's like, well, maybe when I get famous and when I get big, I can start to make it better or make it cleaner. I have no power. But this is like the lie. It's like, no, the more you go down this path, the more you're going to give away, the more you're going to be forgiving to the things that are not of God. the more you compromise. Yeah. I think that the industry is probably set up in a way where it's meant for that kind of compromise. And I don't know if it's always, if it always was that, because I mean, I don't have the history book of the industry.

But there's like this co-opping that has happened within the industry that I see transcend into, you know, other parts of entertainment industry. you know, the Hollywood, the acting. We see, and when you talk about the musicians, I mean, the classic examples of the industry getting to people is like Britney Spears, you know? I mean, it's clear that she was raised in the industry since a kid and it got to her. And we can say that that is, you know,

oh, that she just went crazy. Or the dark, demonic parts of the industry literally got to somebody that pushed them to that limit, right? you see it in the acting industry. One that comes from my childhood, Lindsay Lohan, that she went through some dark times. So many of them.

And I love that they're putting out these documentaries, like what happened with the Nickelodeon childhood stars, like they're coming out with all this stuff. And it's like, are you guys not, are you going to believe now that it's not just, oh, so-and-so was abused? No, there are demonic powers making these people that they've agreed with.

So I'm not excusing the person because you have to agree with, type of lifestyle, but it's like it's ruling in this, in the entertainment space. It's ruling in any space where there's lots of money and lots of power. And it's so funny because my mom, she shared this dream she had where I was like three months old. And she was in our church, like my childhood church. And she went into the basement where we would have like Bible studies and stuff. And she was looking at a meeting. She said it was very dark. This demonic presence was wearing the hood and talking about how can we infiltrate the youth?

This is a dream she had. How can we infiltrate the youth? And a person raised her hand, like very robotic and said through music. And so she knew it was like the Lord Deposit it in her spirit how to pray for your daughter when that time comes. But it's music, anything that's telling you what to think. Yeah. Anything that's telling you how to live. There's a narrative.

There's narration happening 24-7. Who's telling you what to believe? Who's telling you how to live? There's the Word of God that is so beautiful. If you just took your time to read it, got rid of your pre-concepts or, you know, and just sat and realized to see that God is good and that he has a law,

just like the law of gravity. My husband preaches on this all the time. The law of physics, there is a law for a wonderful life. God is the God of order. So it's just the enemy did it. I mean, also God's in control. right. So I don't like to glamify what the enemy has done, but everything is going to come to an end.

We're even seeing just all the craziness happening in the world with, you know, Iran and Iraq, I don't want to go down this path. But you're seeing prophecy being fulfilled. And so the job right now is just to get right with Jesus. Guard your eye gates and your eargates. Because just because you say yes to the Lord doesn't mean your life is going to be perfect. There's warfare now. You've declared war on the kingdom of darkness when you've decided to follow Jesus. Now it's your time to strap up your boots like that song says. put on the armor of God, which he talks about for a reason, your life is not going to get easier. It's not going to be pretty, but you will have the peace of God, you will have his presence, you will have his power, and fulfillment because you're not here to just live

life and be comfortable and not have a care in the world. We're here to be the workman of Jesus. And that's fulfillment in and of itself. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, a lot of things you're saying and stuff, it's something that I've been really beating on recently. and the idea of the warfare that we're finding ourselves in, especially like when you say yes to Jesus, it's not, you know, I literally just posted about this yesterday. It's not the idea that you then go on cruise control into eternity. Like you're literally out here, like you were born into a war. Right. And now you're suiting up and choosing a side. The battle's just now beginning before

you were neutral. The hours were shooting over your head. Yeah. And if, if you, if you can act ignorant to a certain thing and just hope that you don't catch a stray bullet, or you can armor up and act like a soldier that you are and pursue your life that way. I mean, and the things that we're talking about here in the industry, people that are listening that, like, I have a very bad gauge as to what people understand already, because I've been doing this so long and I've been down in this rabbit hole so long that it's like, sometimes I have people ask questions. I posted the other day about when the bombings, you brought up the bombings and stuff.

And somebody said, you know, what's next? And I just said, sleeper cells, be prepared for sleeper cell type stuff to happen. And somebody said, well, what's a sleeper cell? It's like, oh, okay. But when it comes to the spiritual aspects of things, I don't know where people are that are listening. There's so many people that come across the stuff. But you just have to understand that what you're,

hearing right now is an opportunity for a wake-up call to realize that the things that we put into our minds, whether it's music, movies, TV shows, sports, like, there are things, like, I'm not saying all this stuff is bad. What I'm saying is like your brain is naturally a filter to things. And the more you become aware that what your brain is filtering, it's seeping into your spirit. It's spiritual warfare. And when you wake up to the realization that you're in a spiritual war, you have now the choice before you to act accordingly. And I love that you said that because it's lining up with what I believe the Holy Spirit is in telling me to say for someone who's like, well, how do you armor up? What is, what does it

look like to love? Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, strength, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. And he says on these two things, the whole law stands. So it's loving the one who's unlovable. And it's, it's helping. It's sharing. It's sharing. If you're a Christian, share Jesus more. Just keep sharing him and believe that God has workmen after you to water the seed. And just keep, it's like, it sometimes feels unfair because, you know, it's like turn the other cheek. That's what it is. They're going to get slandered.

You're going to get talked bad about. But if you're consistent, there's only so much someone can lie on you and say, if you're consistent in just loving God and loving your neighbor, like just loving people. And love is unconditional. It's not based on how you feel. It's not based on what's socially acceptable or promoted. It's how do you love? The Bible tells you love is patient. Love is kind.

Love does not boast. It doesn't keep record of right or wrong. Love controls itself. It's self-control. Love never fails. It endures until the end. So that's how you do it. And then how do you love?

You get to know the one who is love. And just mirror that. And mirror that. And he becomes, he starts to, you become him. The more you walk with him. I've noticed I'm a more loving person the more I read in my word. And when I'm, if I go through, I forget, it's a song lyric. Somebody said this, but it's so true.

And maybe do, are you familiar with an artist called show, show braka, right, check? Baraka. If I hear a song, maybe. Yeah, he was, I think he was on like, Reach, Reach records years ago. Is it a Christian artist? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he, he, I'm pretty sure.

him that said like a day, like basically a day without being in the word, I know it two or three days without being in the world. The world knows it. And it's like, and that's how it is for me. It's like if, and Jack could probably attest this, but like if I come into the office and I'm hitting the streak where I'm just a miserable person, Derek, the manager, Jack, he could just say, like, they could be like, hey man, when's the last time you read your word? Well, you know, Yesterday I woke up late and today I woke up late or something. Because for me, it's a reflective thing, you know. And so the more you expose yourself to the one that is love, the more you portray that, right?

I guess I want to ask you one more thing here that just keeps coming in my mind because you touched on something that we touch on the show. And I don't know, I don't have the words to put into this recording the amount of times you said something. that is hitting the essence of other things we've talked about on the show. And I hope the people are recognizing the patterns that you've put out today. And maybe there's dot-connecting happening for people to just maybe take that step of like, yeah, this is actually real stuff. But I mentioned to you guys before we started recording how last October we entered in some

serious spiritual warfare here. It was all based off of an episode. And I don't want to get into the episode as much as, the stuff that circles around it. The episode's about an entity recruiting a man who was a boy at the time to work for it. It's a very real story. I held on to it for like three years

because it was something that I was just trying to, there was breadcrumbs with it that I could actually follow and trail on and try to like see, okay, is this guy lying to me? you know, but every time I found somebody to say, yeah, he's lying, they verified the story. As I pulled time on this and really tried to investigate the best I could as a former truck driver, you know, that's not like I'm investigated journalist. Other people were coming to me saying similar things like, hey, I know this is going to sound crazy, but when I was nine years old, I was recruited by this entity.

I've had people on my show before this guy was on saying similar things. And some of them are very dramatic stories. Some of them are just simplistic. And I just wanted to circle back around because, one, you did face a type of recruitment in a sense of like, hey, if you sell your soul of Satan, there's that person that was acting as that agent. But I feel like that, I don't know how you want to call it a vision, a lucid dream, but when you're in the second heaven.

It was a spiritual, it was an encounter. I don't think I was in my body. I was in the spirit. You had an out of body experience. I had an out of body experience. And in that experience, you went through a recruitment.

Yeah. And I don't think this needs to be so hard for people to understand. Like Jesus went through the same recruitment. You know, it's like bow to me. Yeah. And you're being offered things. Like I had this one guy, JR on the show who he went through a recruitment and it was like, he was being offered the world, anything you want.

And he wasn't a girlfriend. Christian at the time. He was actually part of a 1% biker gang. He was a bad dude. And he's like, no, man, I don't want any of this. And that whole recruitment ended. But I can't help but to see these patterns with people where there are people who are being targeted. And it's clear to me that your target was through music to there's this recruitment being involved with you be a useful tool. And I'll give you everything. Is that how you view that experience? Like you were being recruited into the service of? Yeah, because the enemy, you said it, I think off camera, he's a legalist. So he needs your agreement. However he's going to get it, he needs that, yes, I agree.

And so I think because I was brought up in a Christian household, I had praying parents, I was able to see that realm for what it was. You see other people having experiences with these deities and they believe them and they're worshipping them. People are coming out very proud to be, you know, worshippers of these goddesses and stuff. And I believe because I had praying parents and I was brought up in the word that I saw it for what it was. It was, did not feel welcoming. I did not feel love. Yeah, he offered things, but I didn't feel like that was my life. That's where I would, you know, bow down to worship. That was not my place to do that. And I think people who are not in truth, they may see that state and believe, oh my God, the being of whatever came to me.

Because you're seeing people have spirit guides all day long. Yeah, and you feel special then. Right. And star beings, people have these experiences with aliens. These are demonic beings. But they come as angels of light, angels of deception. The enemy's not coming around with horns and the tail. He's coming in a way that you will accept him. But I think because I had truth in my spirit, I was able to see it for what it was. And I want to go down a whole other story here, but... Go for it. No, I don't want you to put it's a whole other thing about the spirit behind music.

Well, I'll just say it really quick. It's, I remember having a dream because this is when God started revealing my purpose to me, casting out these demonic beings and stuff. But I was, I was with these, this girl group. And I'm like, am I joining a girl group now? Like, what's going on? Although I was a part of a girl group a long time ago. That was a story.

Oh my gosh, I'm not going to relive that. But so I'm like, but I'm a Christian knowing I just, I'm with the Lord, but why am I doing this worldly girl group anyway? This one girl in the dream was very upset that I was there. She started manifesting and getting mad. And I, you know, held her. I said, you know, receive the love of Christ, you know, whatever. And her head morphed into this ancient Egyptian, like that doghead. Yeah, Anubis.

Anubis. Yeah. I was looking for that name. And I asked it, who are you? you anubis, it said. And then the Lord said this power is the principality over entertainment, production, and singing and music and worship. And I was like, this is go, this goes way back to the fall.

And this goes way back. So sometimes I feel like I'm in over my head. And I know, hey, greater C was in me, I have so much rest in the Lord that my life is not my own. So these, when you're wearing all this ancient Egyptian jewelry and stuff, please, your research before you do because the enemy is a legalist. So that's why, you know, that's why Christ came to die on the cross. It was a legal action. He bought us with a price. Your freedom comes at a cost, but it's all in Christ. So, man, it's so far back. It's so deep,

but it is. Yeah. It's interesting. You bring that up, though. I mean, the idea of anubis. I'm not an Egyptian, like, you know, scholar. I don't know nothing about that stuff. Me neither. I just, I know what I hear on my show, basically, you know. But there are these patterns that cross over between and intersect on topics that you're like, this has nothing to do with the other. And it's like, actually, it does. Yeah.

And like, this is a prime example because you're bringing up a Nubis in your experience. And there are people who have. lots of experiences with Anubis to this day. Yeah. And it really shows the, the timeless nature of this and the fact that these, these entities, people, hundreds, thousands of years ago, they weren't just stupid. Right. They didn't just say, oh, that's a rock. I think we're going to worship it today. Like, there are actual entities and beings that were pushing, that were motivating factors behind this worship. And they didn't go anywhere. They're still, in fact, Jonathan Kahn, are you familiar

with Jonathan Conn? I am. So he has a book called Return of the Gods. Yes. And it's, he just hits on a few of them. In the book, it's a thick book, but he hits on only a few. And it's a very, it's a very particular path in that book. But this is a very broad thing. And, you know, are you familiar with Michael Heiser? He is, Dr. Michael Heiser is, I say I'm a student and also Chuck Missler. Yeah. That's what I, that's what I listen to frequently, because there's a lot of information, right? And I'm a student of the word. I'm a disciple.

And I always, I feel like if you stop learning, you stop growing. So I'm always learning. But I understand that what there's, so we have time, but God's eternal. And all these beings are not in the time, the realm of time. They're in the spiritual realm. But we feel time. So we think things are so far long ago. they're not. It's still like when you look at the scriptures, God didn't get upset when you

slept with your neighbor's wife. He got upset when you worshipped another God. I'm not saying that you committing adultery is not a sin because it is, but he moved when you started to replace him with another God. He said to smash the idols who don't hear, don't whatever, but if they kept building them, I wonder what was happening when they were building these idols because things were happening to your point. They're not dumb. Humans are not dumb. But God came to you know, let you know who is the one and only God, the most high God, the God of God, that Psalm talks about.

You know, the Lord of Lords, the King of Kings. Like, it's crazy. I've been saying this recently. I heard somebody talk about it, and it's this war between God and Satan, a good, evil. It's, I grew up believing it. It was just like Satan

wants to defeat God and God. and it's like it's them fighting each other. Right. Yeah. But somebody said that it's more like it's fighting for our attention, right? So God wants our attention. I established that with the Piper talk of the Christian hedonism and how when we give that attention to him, he can give us his glory and we can just, it's a cycle. And it's like Satan wants to pull us away from that.

And it's not that Satan wants us to worship. him as much as he doesn't care what we worship is not, as long as it's not God. Yeah, that's why you have so many religions. He doesn't care if you know him or not. It's just a win in his book. Right. It's deception. Yeah. There is one God. And I feel like we're going down a whole other thing, but it's, it's, God doesn't need our worship and salvation. Like it's, this life is to let you know. One, we have a freedom to choose because God didn't create robots. That's why he put the tree of life in the tree of the knowledge, it was introducing choice. And Satan had the freedom to choose, and he chose pride. So that's where all the fall happened. But pride is the root of everything. And if you can, well,

the only way to conquer pride is to be in humility in Christ, who was the ultimate meek person. So, all right, I'm going to bring this in for landing. But I got it, I got to hit on this one more thing. And maybe there'll be five minutes, maybe it would be 15. I don't know. But we, we were just talking about the second heaven. And I, and I just, so I view, for one, we know the third heaven is real because Paul talks about it, right? And then that leads us to this idea of first, second heaven, what are those things? And theologians debate that stuff. And, and through my just understandings through talking with people and, and this, this warfare, and I think a lot of it happens in the second heaven. And I feel like Daniel 10 is a great mirror.

of that. Yeah. And so when you found yourself there, how did you get a sense that this is where spiritual warfare takes place? Like, I'm talking like, because like in Daniel 10, it's like the Spirit Prince of Persia is literally holding back the angel from delivering a message of Daniel, right? So there's this warfare happening. Did you ever get a sense that this is the environment that I'm in?

because in pop culture, Stranger Things on Netflix has this whole thing of the upside down. And I've told people on this show, that is a pop culture depiction of the Second Heaven, the spiritual realm. I've never seen Stranger Things. It's dark.

The first season is not as dark as, but it gets darker and darker as it goes on. I'm in on it now. I'm going to watch the last season is coming out. I call it job research, market research, you know. But it's not good, you know? And I just feel like we've been talking a lot about second heaven on the show.

And I feel like it's starting to, at least for me, and maybe on the pusher of this, I don't know. But like I feel like the second heaven is becoming something that needs to be talked about more. Because as we become more aware of our spiritual existence, I feel like that is like the battleground that's happening. You know, people are being like, like you had, you were pulled to a second heaven location. Yeah, it could have happened in my living room, right? Why there?

I think because he rules that right now so that he's got an advantage there on the earth is the king, is the children of gods. We have dominion here. So I believe he's got an advantage there. But because we're such a lost generation, you know, we can only speak as Americans, but the gospel has slowly been. just taken away out of things. And now we live in a lawless nation, atheistic nation. So because we don't have God,

the knowledge of God, people are seeking after that through other means, through spiritualism, through New Age, to fulfill the only what Christ can. So if you don't worship Christ, you're going to be seeking forever.

The moment you've received Christ, it's like you realize he is the truth in the way and the life. So I believe because I was there, that's where he has dominion. And so it probably worked. And it obviously does work for him because he's got that space right now, but he's being cast out at the moment. And that in your descriptions, was that the place that you said felt more real than here?

So it felt like a tangible place. Very much. I felt like what's crazy is I felt like I could have like physically flown to these places, but something was keeping me. It was like, I didn't feel led to look down and see what I was standing on. I knew I was suspended. And I knew I was placed there just to. like observe and like initially it was like oh wow I get to experience it's amazing like being in space because I again I always knew God and I knew him but I didn't really understand him. So then when one saying approaches it's like then I'm like oh shoot okay this is this is real this is serious I can't just pass by life like casually this everything we have cut everything we

do has a consequence. What we do here really matters into our eternal nature, which is why Paul says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. Like, this is a daily thing to walk with the Lord. But yeah, I think, well, we see it, that he's the prince of the power of the air. And there are rulers and forces that we are fighting against. That's why prayer, we can't just go into space and be like, it's not our fight. It's it's the Lord's. And when we pray, we're just, you know, it's all by faith. The just shall live by faith.

This Christian life is a life of faith. But the Lord reveals himself. He says that he will manifest himself to the pure and heart. So he will manifest himself to you in many ways. But, yeah, the enemy's defeated. I can't stand him. We didn't worry about him. We didn't worry about him.

But, yeah, but the warfare, like, it's going to happen. We're gearing up for it now with plant. a church and stuff. Yeah, very much. We're just constantly praying, Lord, may we endure to the end. May we continue to press towards our mark. Whatever comes, I just pray, like, we keep praying over our family. We keep praying over our children.

Because we know what we signed up for. But what's amazing about God is when you, when you believe in him, he gives you his confidence. I'm like, who are we? Yeah. But he gives you his confidence and he gives you himself. Yeah. It's almost like outside of character confidence. It's like, what?

That ain't me. Audacity. He gives you the audacity. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I really enjoyed this conversation. And I want to remind people that if you enjoyed this conversation, we're going to do another one with Christita's husband, Stefan. And are you ready to hop on over here, sir?

All right. We're going to take a quick break. And if you want to listen to this, the next interview, head on over to Merkle IRL YouTube channel. We're going to post it there at the same time we post this. And what are we going to talk about? I don't know. We're just going to have some fun and have a good conversation. But there's a whole story of this family that I think the world needs to hear.

So we're going to record it and have a good time. So let's do it. Amen. Solutions. I'm beyond just a real competition. Yeah. It feels like it's a sickness.