The Confessionals - 792: The Unified Phenomenon

Episode Date: September 16, 2025

In this episode, we dive into the mystery of the unified phenomenon; the unsettling idea that aliens, demons, cryptids, and countless other entities may all be masks worn by a single ancient intelligence. This force has always sought worship, weaving itself through history in different disguises, demanding recognition while deceiving humanity. From possession and rituals to modern encounters, the thread is disturbingly consistent: the phenomenon adapts, but the source remains the same.The tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk this past week is a sobering reminder that these ancient powers don’t just lurk in the shadows or forests; instead, they stretch into our cultural and political arenas as well. What looks like chaos on the surface may in fact be orchestrated by the same intelligence working through different faces, different systems, and different moments in time.Please pray for Tony's wife, Lindsay, as she battles breast cancer. Your prayers make a difference!If you’re able, consider helping the Merkel family with medical expenses by donating to Lindsay’s GoFundMe: https://gofund.me/b8f76890Become a member for ad-free listening, extra shows, and exclusive access to our social media app: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinThe Confessionals Social Network App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZTony's Recommended Reads: slingshotlibrary.comMy New YouTube ChannelMerkel IRL: @merkelIRLMy First Sermon: Unseen BattlesSasquatch and The Missing Man: merkelfilms.comMerkel Media Apparel: merkmerch.comSPONSORSSIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsGHOSTBED: GhostBed.com/tonyCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] Gillis:Instagram | WebsiteMAILING ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/theconfessionals/Discord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelProduced by: @jack_theproducerOUTRO MUSIC Joel Thomas - "Rose In A Cage" YouTube | Apple Music | Spotify

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Empeza to your period of Prueva for an euro a month in Shopify.com. S bar records. Hey, everyone, before we get to this week's show, this is just your weekly reminder to please continue to pray for my wife, Lindsay. She is battling breast cancer right now

and we're praying for complete healing in Jesus' name. Thank you. Merkel. This was all circulating around the base that a giant had been killed, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three laws.

bony fingers reach up underneath the door curl up to grab it and then disappear when he came over to me dude he slithered over to me and this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen and he starts running and firing up this giant moves he's got a spear in one hand and he's running really fast and spears Dan holds him up like this somebody else shoot him in the face shoot him in the face they basically decapitated. When he feels something pulling at my leg, and I look over and there are two small gray entities. And they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed.

I was bush, and I touch air, couldn't breathe, and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. Welcome to the show, everybody, listening to the Confessionals podcast. I'm your host, Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here. If you have a crazy, wild experience, you want to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is contact. at the confessionalspodcast.com. That's contact at the confessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, theconfessionalspodcast.com. Hit the contact section and you can reach me that way as well. I think it works for me. Just get a hold of me. If you want more shows on a weekly basis,

we have you covered on our exclusive social media app. The Confessionals members have access to bonus shows every week, the entire archive of bonus shows in all eternity past. and also it's all on a social media app specifically designed for the members of the Confessionalspodcast.com. If that interests you, go ahead and check it out the confessionalspodcast.com slash join. Also go ahead and check out Merkelfilms.com and Merckmerch.com is where you can get your on-demand apparel. And Merkelfilms.com is where you can get your on-demand streaming of documentaries. Go ahead and check those websites out. Listen, friends, before we get today's show, I just kind of want to address what happened last week with the Charlie Kirk situation. My basic statement of it is

available on my social medias on Instagram, Facebook, and X, and the members on the app. But all I can say is that we need to start looking at what happens around us much more in the spiritual sense. We're in a spiritual war. I've been talking about it for the better part of a year and a half, two years and there are manifestations of that spiritual war that play out in this realm. And what we saw happen last week is exactly that. As of right now, at the time of this recording, I have not done an official show or recording on the topic. I might still do that. I'm not sure, but I just wanted to let you guys know where I stand on it. It was a horrible situation. We're praying for the families involved. We're praying for our nation. We're praying for

those who persecute us. And we are going to do these things because when we pray, the heavens open up and hear us. So with that said, today we have Nathaniel Gillis coming on the show to talk about the unified phenomenon which explores the idea that aliens, demons, cryptids, and other supernatural entities are not separate beings, but different masks of a single ancient intelligence. And this force deceives humanity by shifting forms and narratives with its ultimate goal of being worshipped and in control. Kind of like what we saw last week, this is the unified phenomenon and it reaches across many spectrums. Let's get to the conversation with Nathaniel right now.

I was re-listening to our interview the first one. And I made like halfway through. It just got me all excited because I remember when I was watching me and reacting, the amount of times I was like, hold on, hold on. I was like, I was having a heyday. And I was like, this is going to be so much fun. But I did write down this phrase that I just want to remember more off, to use more often because I think.

thought it was fascinating. You said possession to us is pregnancy to them. And I was standing, in the bathroom getting ready. And I heard that. And I just stopped it. I just stood there. I was like, what does that even mean? Like, I was like still, I was just trying to think. I was like, okay, possession to us is pregnancy to them. So it's like, where the egg and they're the sperm or something? Like, I was like, wow, you know? It's a heavy notion that a lot of people just, they tend to either dismiss it or they don't sit or stand like you did right and really process it but that is whatever we're dealing with is a species and they use us to self-replicate their own kind and so early on in my case studies I started looking at possession in the pathology of possession incubate cases you know possession through you know Catholicism and then the Bible and unclean spirits and then I started to get into what's called the debug phenomenon the 16th century that's when I started noticing that the incubus, the same incubus that was impregnating women, was trying to possess them at the same time. And so then we have cases of literally one demon collapsing all of its archetypes.

It is the dream demon, right? It is sleep paralysis. It is hybridism. It is possession and it is pregnancy. Jeez. And so in the 16th century, what we started having were cases, this is in the Levant. This is in Safdi Israel. Women were going, first of all, they were part of what's called the Gilgala Refahim cult,

which is basically the modern CE5 movement where they're trying to go out and evoke entities. The bad thing about this, of course, there's always a dark side is that when they went home, the entities that they thought were all love and light start incarnating directly over their bodies, staring directly over them. And nighttime, inducing them in the dream. dreamlike trances. And so they were doing really, really bad things to them in the dreamlike state. The women wake up the next day thinking it's just a dream demon. Thank God it's a nightmare. Then they started having bruises, physical markings, scarifications, and what are called skin anomalies,

all over their bodies. And so at first blush, they thought it was the byproduct of a mindless process, something that just randomly occurred. Until they realized that, that the bruises directly coordinated with a nightmare they had the night before. Wow. So it wasn't a dream. Wow. And it wasn't even a dream demon. It was something physically there.

Yeah. Right. And then it was from that moment that these women began dealing with memories that did not belong to their life experiences. Language preferences, multiple voices coming out of their body. And at a certain point, you see all of the pathologies that I, myself and others, I'm working with have collected throughout the years, line. They all aligned with each other. And now we're like, well, that's not separate demons, entities, not even separate intelligences.

It's singular, a singular species that's performing the same ritual. And I have it in my office in Dayton, the same ritual over these. You have what in your office? The, the grimire that they're working off of it. It's called the ultimate black mass and then originated in antiquity where we can get to that a second. But I, I got a, this is a fascinating nuance here. The same women that were possessed by these beings were pregnant by them. Oh. And so now you have literally, their bodies are physically demonstrating symptoms of pregnancy.

And they would go to their rabbis. Again, this is in Softy Israel in the 16th century. They would present themselves to their rabbis. I don't know what this is. I'm dealing with basically schizophrenia or some sort. And I can't understand what I'm going through. There's something pulsating within my womb. And I don't know what that is either.

And so they began to inspect their bodies. And sure enough, they were showing as if they had been pregnant for three or four months. Now, they perform what's called the Levush method, which is the pressing of the thumbs on the wrist. It felt two pulses in their body and two heartbeats in their body. that's when the pathology of possession shifted into something that's probably the darkest nuance of my research now, and that is that possession to us is pregnancy to them. And here's the kicker. These women were not just impregnated by the entities.

They were pregnant with them. And they realized that what they'd done is transferred their consciousness from their own bodies into the biological avatar of the fetus. And at the end, they needed an exorcism. Now, in modernity, in euophology, again, what the phenomenon is trying to do is trying to re contextualize worship, altars, sacrifice, hybridism, possession, and pregnancy. Even conjuring, right? It's trying to shift the narrative into something completely different, but it wants all the same trappings. And wants it all. It wants it And so in modernity now, especially within uophology, they're trying again, working with what I call the proto-intelligence, the phenomenon. They're trying to say this is the missing fetus syndrome.

It's modern. It's not modern. It's ancient. Now, what it did is another fascinating aspect of the phenomenon that people don't understand yet. But when these priests and rabbis exercised, when they force that consciousness of the entity out, the phenomenon took the fetus at the same time. Gone. Really? Yes.

That's missing fetus syndrome within its original context. It originated, again, not in uanophology. It originated in demonology as an incubus, as a dream demon, who was trying to replicate itself through the womb of a woman. Holy crap, dude. Okay, so we have Nathaniel Gillis here in studio. How are you, man? That's one way to start the show.

Holy cow, dude. All right. So you're saying that the fetus could be taken with the entity. Are there cases then of women actually giving birth to? Yes. And ironically enough, these entities, they follow rituals. Okay. Let me go back and say this.

even when the phenomenon removes the fetus and the consciousness, they're following rituals. So early on in my Inkybai research, I was doing just in home investigations, working like literally with technology, right, trying to EMF readers, all that, looking for, okay, what's actually going on here? And so I've had cases literally where the husbands called me

and said, you know, my wife has been haunted by this entity, but it's usually at nighttime, right, when I'm asleep. And so here lately, it's changing its pathology. It's being more demonstrable, more violent with her. He called me, a gentleman called me one time. He said, look, he said, it's hovering over my wife right now. I said, what is? He said, I don't know what it is.

I can't see it. But my wife is paralyzed in her bed. She can't move a muscle from her head down. The only thing she can say is, baby, he's staring. into my eyes, he's right over top of me right now. So that's when I realized that at least the upbringing that I got, growing up in ministry and everything, there were questions that I needed answers for because there was some of the phenomenon that didn't fit the blueprint, right? But I knew it was real. They knew it was real. And so it was from that moment on that I dove head first into

the academic literature, knowing for sure that something exists, these people aren't making this up, something does exist, but I needed answers and I needed them fast. And so that's what I went into incubus literature. Now, the problem that we're starting to have in the field is that there has been an orchestrated effort to obfuscate this information from the masses. Right. They do not want it at conferences. They don't. They don't want this information out because when people like myself and others that I'm working with, when we start to bring this information out, I'll just tell you what happened to me. I got a head-on collision about two months ago because of doing this research.

I was warned in a nightmare. I didn't tell you about this, but yeah. No, please. I was born in a nightmare. In the dream, I kept feeling the secondary presence and attachment, if you will, in the dream. And I'm in a car with these two beings, these two men, but I knew they weren't men. It was very strange. And they handed me.

a letter. And in the letter, it opened it up. And it was test results. And they looked at me and said, okay, you're in a car now, right? I said, right. And he goes, okay, there you go. I leave the dream. I wake up the next day and I start freaking out. I start texting people, pray for me, somebody, like, I need divine intervention because I knew I was being targeted. I've already, okay, and this is not like, I want people to think, okay, Nathaniel Gillis thinks he's amazing. No, it's not it. I'm just trying to highlight the darker aspects of what we're dealing with. with. But what happened was I was warned twice before. I had one experience or reach out to me because an entity directly came to him and said, stop looking at Nathaniel Gillis. Stop promoting his research. The second warning was two different emails, independent from each other, two different email addresses, same message. My guides want to me to tell you that they'll be waiting for you and you die. Whoa. And that was in this side of?

Yes. Yeah. So those were two warnings prior to the car accident. And so since then, you know, it's like I told you before, we even started airing where there are times when we're doing the research and we know we're on it. We're over the target. But it's during those moments when we have to literally pull back, go dark, in hope the phenomenon doesn't make eye contact. And so, My point here is, yes, it's because of that response, that triggering mechanism within the phenomenon, that our government doesn't want this out. We're not doing lectures at major conferences because of this. It's going to change soon. I pray. It has to. We have to bring this out. And I've had conversations in the last year with people that are huge in Uithology.

Huge. I would never even think that they would want to have. a conversation with me. When we get on the Zoom call, Tony, here's what they tell me. We know. Know what? They know about the sigils.

They know about the altars. One individual told me, told me, in no uncertain terms, I got into UFology because I thought I was enjoying the scientific method. I thought I'm going to be studying, you know, craft and, you know, extraterrestrials.

And she goes, but I was invited to a meeting. of the minds at someone's house. And these were major figures in eumphology. She said I was the first one that got there. And the first thing the host did was show her the altar that this individual had. Okay. All right.

Just hang on a second. All right. Too much. No, no, not too much. I mean, we're just like, I knew this is going to happen. So the first time that you and I talked and stuff, I had to keep stopping you because it was like, like, I don't know if every. everybody else listening and watching this.

It feels that way, but I need to be able to wrap my brain around some of the stuff that we're talking about before just my, I pop. And that would be very gross on camera. So, because what we're about to start getting into, I think easily migrates into your trip to England. But let's rewind here for a second. And first of all, officially, welcome back to the show, Nathaniel Gillis. I think we're about 15 minutes in. But it was absolutely like a must. And Jack and I were talking about after the first interview and I did, and I was like, we got to get him here in studio.

And you were happy to do so. So I'm really glad you're here. You mentioned here a few minutes ago about the idea that you're looking into things. And it's almost like what you're looking into is looking back at you. Correct. And it's aware that you're looking into it. and it's warning you. It's trying to push you off.

I'm at a very deep level feel the same way about myself. And the difference between you and I is you have a method to your madness. Like, you're like, let me research this. And let me pull this document up and look at this and read this and start. And I'm just like, welcome to the show. Let's get dirty and crazy here and see what happens, you know? And it's kind of on a, it could get dangerous. We, we experienced that last October, episode 692, we released.

And that was the first time that I realized that not only my pointing at what's in the dark, but what's in the dark is pointing back at me. And I was poking something in the face that I never really considered what it would care. You know, it was like, whatever, you know, people know about this entity. And I'm just pulling back this storyline of these entities recruiting people and all this stuff. And apparently that was not part of their agenda. And so I personally have been experiencing similar things. And the more I recognize it, the more I recognize that it is spiritual warfare.

And the more reality that sets in for me that this is, this is like a giant cosmic war that that has been raging before any of us were born. And we're like infants learning how to speak at this level. Like, you know what I mean? It's just like we're in this like baby crawl pen pulling ourselves up to stand to look outside of the pen. And we have no idea what we're actually even looking at, right? And that's kind of how I feel about a lot of this stuff right now.

So you've experienced that on your level. now you're you're getting invited to people's houses and you're getting more exposure, more understanding as to what's going on under the surface. Was there a moment that, like, so the person that you were just talking about that shared that with you, is there a moment in all this stuff that you're like, your mind is blown or is more confirmation? Because, like, for me, there's a lot of, my mind gets blown when my thoughts get confirmed. You know?

Yeah, the same one. Because I feel like my thoughts go way out there. And I'm like, surely that can't be true. And then somebody confirms, I'm like, no way. Right. You don't want it to be true. But you've had that that unction on you that says, yeah, there's a there there. I've had moments like that.

And they're uncomfortable. But that's where we evolve, you know, as researchers and experiencers. The phenomenon doesn't want us to make eye contact with it. It doesn't. It wants to control the narrative. It wants us to control our perception of it. And yet there seems to be a common pathology underlining everything. It's never changing really what it wants.

It will change what we call it. It's not worship, right? I'm an experience you're looking at orbs saying you are amazing, you're gorgeous, you're beautiful. And the more I worship it, the more powerful it becomes, yeah, that's a religious motif. Absolutely. And people act like I and my colleagues are crazy because, oh, well, they're bringing religion to no, we're not. We're pointing back to the historical aspect of it saying if it is a different intelligence,

then why is it wanting the same thing? Yeah. Why is hybridism in demonology and in eunophology? So one of the key moments in my research that was a wow, like a wow event, like you described, where it was like it confirmed everything I believed, everything I knew. But it confirmed it on a dimensional level that was shifting in my own career. It was when I got an invitation to go lecture at the Awakening Conference in Manchester, England, this past February, last year, actually. And it was with Steve Merritt and Dr. Barry Fitzgerald.

And it was a whole, we had a lineup. Amazing people. Amazing. Paul St. Clair, Ronald and Philip Kinsella. But our whole focus. And obviously, we are all independent researcher. but that conference was designed to create a panel of researchers who might not even have the same theological beliefs. That was what's most important, right?

Because the field would say, well, yeah, because you're all Christians. No. What happened was we were all coming from, at the phenomenon, from different aspects, and we all landed in the same space. Wow. And so here I am speaking to my heroes in the field in England. at the hotel, in the restaurant, and here's what comes out of one of their mouths. Nathaniel, nice to meet you. Hey, it's my honor.

Kind of like meeting you, Tony. I'm like, man, I don't belong here, but I love it. I'm honored. You know, it's fascinating. Thank you. They want to be worshipped. He said that to you. Right.

Look me right in the eyes. Second quote, you're ready for this one? This always gives me chills. They'll give you anything you want, Nathaniel, as long as you. you worship them. It was from that moment on that my life shifted into a gear where it's not just, right, demonology or the Collins elite, the model that is the most accurate model is that we're dealing with a species that believes they're worth worshipping and they will give us miracles. They'll prop up conferences, right? They'll, and in order to protect itself,

because there's a control matrix employed. In order to protect itself, it will promote one researcher over the other to an extent where the research that we're doing will get stopped. I'm talking literally. One of my friends, they went on, I think it was a project of theirs, an experiment across another country. And the phenomenon, and here's people are going to freak out because they don't believe that some don't. But the phenomenon transported his laptop from his bag back to the Airbnb they were staying at. And they didn't know it. Charger's still in the bag.

Laptop's gone. He gets a phone call from the Airbnb host. Did you guys leave a laptop? That's what we're talking about. And the problem with the model is that a lot of us still believe we're dealing with unclean spirits, right? Well, they just train. They go from one body to another body, and that's it. That's not it.

It's not it at all. Like, with Steve Merris research and Barry Fitzgerald, again, I'm talking about my mentors and not my mentor, my friends and stuff, is that we're talking about a phenomenon where it will import things, like the phenomenon project with Barry Fitzgerald, Steve Merrick. What do you mean by that? So the phenomenon will materialize objects in people's homes

that don't belong to. there. They had a case, my friend, and this is something that I really wanted to bring to the floor because people need to wrap their minds around what's going on. So husband and wife getting an argument, okay, she takes a figurine, a glass figurine, throws it against the wall. Next morning wakes up. It's not shattered. It's back, Tony. Was there significance to it? Yes. The theory that they're presenting and one that I'm backing, it's incredible. The phenomenon will use objects to anchor its presence into our reality. Wow.

And so what happened? And again, this is why, like, the real researchers, like the real research being on, we're on the level of, like, if I got to lose my mind over this? Because we're looking at an intelligence that can fabricate reality. Number one. Number two, that can create physiological consequences. constructs. We think they're real. We think they're one species or another. They're not. It's the phenomenon. I take this a step further. Please. So just to show you the extent the phenomenon will go

to obfuscate these revelations, I should say. In the 1970s, there were a series of scientists. All of them were academics. All of them were researching the phenomenon from the extraterrestrial perspective, scientific method. One of them was Professor Renee Hardy. But what happened was, Tony, once they got their thesis together, the night before they released it one by one. They were found deceased in deserts. And it was believed to have been done by their own hand. Now, when they finally got a hold of the thesis, you know what it said?

One by one, I started out thinking these are extraterrestrials. They're not. There's something completely different. right? Yeah, and there is a war over our reality. Jeez. Now, one by one, one by one, they're showing up deceased. The family members are coming to the force saying there's no way, right? That's my husband.

That's love of my life. There's no way he would do this to himself. I knew what he was on the track of, right? And I knew the threats he was receiving by supernatural and natural means. Now, here's the kicker. Get passionate. Professor Renee Hardy was basically the height of the phenomenon. He was a scientific savant.

I think he had over 250 scientific patents. The night before he went to give his presentation on, hey, listen, we're being manipulated by another species. It's not extraterrestrial. Seems like these are dibby gods or they think they are. the night before he was also found deceased. Okay. His family goes to the funeral. They all have the funeral.

His colleagues, his students, his friends show up. They all sit down in the middle of the pregnant silence. The back doors open. And six very tall, thin men in black suits walk into the funeral. They were photographed. People witnessed them. and people shook hands with them. After the funeral, family gets together like they do at the house.

The wife goes to the daughter. Hey, what about those gentlemen that showed up at the very end of the field? Like, what was that about? I have no idea. Did you talk to them? I talked to them. They're a very nice gentleman. Yeah.

Who were they? I don't know. So they started making phone calls. They didn't belong in the faculty. Nobody knew who they were. And Tony, when they went back to look at the footage. Don't say it. They weren't even there.

No way. Who story? Wow. This is what the government knows. This is the true origin story of the men in black, Tony. It's literally, I could be talking to you and you're not real. Now, that is the extent the phenomenon is willing to go to, right? And, oh, it's your own hand.

It wasn't. They got close. and when you get too close to this intelligence, it has a way, oh, really? Yeah, I'm going to, okay, Barbara Bartholick, warned. Was a, you know, a contemporary Dr. Carlick Turner, one of my heroes. Warned, you're getting too close. Calm down.

Stop talking. If not, you're due for an adjustment. It's pretty much the same thing they told Dr. Turner. You're due for an adjustment. Adjustment. And adjustment. We're going to tweak it a little bit. And you know what tweaking to them is?

Offing? Oh, being on the highway, right? In some man that has never had any muscle spasms in his entire life, just jerks the steering wheel a little bit, cuts you off, sing you into a head-on collision, you're gone. Next. That's how the phenomenon operates. And so the research on my colleagues are doing now,

it's like once you get too close, you feel it. It first starts out as a secondary presence, then it mutates into an attachment, and then it's nightmares. and I have friends right now who independently of each other, they had incarnations of the phenomenon in their houses. Literally, one is like, hey, listen, I don't know what happened last night. He was telling his girlfriend this.

I don't know what it is, but something manifested at the foot of my bed gets a phone call from his colleague. Did you have anything weird happening last night? Absolutely. They compared notes. So my point is that our government knows that. And right now, and I'm just going to speak from my perspective and the research on others doing, it's like, okay, what rules do they follow? How much of it have we been lied to by the phenomenon? Right.

So early on in my research, and this is kind of the whole conversation, again, I've had with these gentlemen from England, was are we dealing with various intelligences, right? Are these cryptids? Are they alien? And we all knew what we believed, right? We had to flesh it out since we were in town with each other. And the agreement and the consensus is, no, we're dealing with a singular intelligence. One, that's diversifying itself throughout our species, obfuscating the truth.

But at the end of the day, it's one species. And so that's where we're at. Yes, it should be in my core. They want worship. I said, what do you mean by that? Can you break that down? Because I knew, right? I had that background. I'm like, okay, what do you mean? How did you arrive? What's the background of this person telling you this? Not religious. He just realized the pathology. And many of us, again, like I said, people act, at least they want to say, oh, well, you're just projecting your religion. It's not about what I believe. What do they believe? The foundational position of my theory is, is, If I can understand what they have a fear of, I can understand what they have a faith in. Once I started realizing that, that's when it really helped me evolve into a more matured, more solid hypothesis. So what was his answer to you?

And yes, what do you mean by that? He said that they were at, first of all, this isn't a theory. It was like, his experience, he is a data-driven man. These are data-driven, not dog maled, data-driven. right? And so I'm sitting here going, uh-oh, here we go. It's like you said earlier, right? It's going to be confirmed, but how am I going to feel knowing

of us, you know? And anyways, he said, well, he goes, no, we started talking about the CE5 movement, and which, you know, my position on that. Everybody that falls you love it, right? Huge fan. Huge fan. No, it's all necromancy. But his point was that

they were at a, just investigating, not as practitioners. because they're against it too but you know they they're at the CE5 event and before they got out of their cars they had their pins started levitating in their car

and they're looking at each other and they went to get out of their car and from the darkness now everybody needs to pay close attention to us from the darkness multiple voices were speaking to the CE5 practitioners come and bowed down

before us come with us, bow down and worship. This is before they even started the protocol. There we go. Boom, there it is. They knew that, right? They're documenting these cases because, again, being data-driven means that you have to have scientific evidence of this. If not that, just at least personal experience.

And so I'm sitting there looking at the eyes of men that are older than, obviously, all than I am, but they've been doing research longer than I've been alive. And they're telling me, yeah, we know what's going on. And it was so exciting for me, you know, because, and there are other researchers that, you know, I have both friends with that will echo the sentiment where it's a lonely, dark, misunderstood road. If I don't represent what I've been taught to the fullest extent, I'm pagan, atheist, all of it, right? Then again, if I don't hold to the data, they're going to say I'm a dogmatist. So I'm thinking, okay, I've got to stick to at least what I can prove. And then what I realized was, oh, yeah, that model is correct.

It's not a figment of my imagination. Whatever they are, the psychopathy behind it, bow down and worship me. And so that's when I started discovering that there were aspects, again, the phenomenon evolving. This is a key point people need to understand. The phenomenon is evolving according to our. awareness of it. That makes a lot of sense when you look back at historical last hundred years. That makes a lot of sense where it's like you see the evolution of the phenomenon.

Absolutely. And it seems to evolve with culture. Of course. Always changing its incarnation. Watch this, Tony, but it's never changing its incantation. Hmm. Wow. Incantations remain solid.

They remain the same. Even in the CE5 movement, we're, looking at conjuring. You know, with Barry and Stephen, the most fascinating aspect of their research is the fact that they were testing, again, the CE5 hypothesis. What's actually going on? Right. I mean, from the demonological standpoint, we knew that dream demons exist.

There's something that at least answers to the name demonic. It may not have horns and horns and hoes, right? Pathology is the same. And so we knew that once you start interfacing with these entities, there's only a certain amount of time, Tony, before the phenomenon starts, stops manifesting to you and starts manifesting through you. Now, it's your emotions that's manipulating. And you only have like 20, 30 seconds to say a name, to fight back before the phenomenon completely controls everything. Now, is this, I'm sorry, I just, what you just said, I don't lose your thought they're just going to say,

but what you just said is that like in every case scenario? Most cases, most cases. Wow. Yeah. And so when I was talking to them, you know, they're like, okay, they're like, we've ran experiments on this. I said, okay, like, what do you mean? And he goes, well, what we did is we took CE5 practitioners out to their undisclosed locations of their choosing. They would go through the CEFI protocol. He said, we put a brainwave monitoring unit. This is the kind of research I love on their head. And he said, after. the protocol was successfully fulfilled, the phenomenon incarnated, and we timed it in seconds, 15 seconds, 20 seconds. And he said outside of 20 seconds, the phenomenon induced that experienceer into theta brainwave. It induced them into a translike state in 25 seconds, Tony. And they have the data. So the point is that the profanity exists.

The phenomenon after a certain point of interfacing with us is not just projecting an archetype and manifesting to us, it's manifesting through us to where it will take images out of our minds and become that. I had an experience years ago, it's been about a decade ago, where this happened. I was dating a girl. I was actually engaged her. And I'm in bed one night. And it was like a Friday night. I was working out of factory. Honestly, it was a long week.

I just ate, took a shower, and I crashed. And you ever had a dream where you knew it's not a dream? It's like a nightmare. It's very real. And there's a secondary presence there. I felt that. And in the nightmare, there is this featureless shadow figure on top of me. In the nightmare.

This is true demon or dream demonology right here. It's not just my fault, right? This is the real pathology. So in the nightmare, I'm trying to push this entity off of me. At the same time, I'm waking myself up. When I wake myself up, it's actually on top of me, not just in the dream. So there is a measure of perception management employed by the phenomenon that we're just now starting to bring out. And then we can go deeper to that if you want.

Yeah, I mean, listen, I have no timelines today. And I'm going to hold you as long as you want to stay. So what you're describing, you described something like this similarly earlier, and I just didn't get a chance to bring it up. But this is something that's happening not only in just, because you keep saying the phenomenon. And I think you've trained yourself to say that and not identify it as something that's cultural. But like in general, are we talking about like what people would say ET, alien and demons? You're saying it encompasses all these categories. Right.

Okay. So, and I'm glad you said that because. answer correct. Good job. You can graduate to the next level. Thank you, sir. Yes, I'm the gatekeeper. So I had a guy on episode 500, I wouldn't say 10.

And his name's Hunter, and he's been on the show twice. And it's going to get a little long, so just bear with me. Because it's a two-parter, essentially. The first time he came on, he talked about, the main experience he shared was that, and he's in Middle Tennessee here. about four hours from me. He tells me that he had a nightmare where he was, say, like out in a camping area or something.

It was like forest. And his family was off in one area. He was separate from them. And he saw this upright standing dog, eyeballing his family, looking back at him, family, back at him, and then just takes off and runs towards his family. And so he runs and gets between the two,

and this thing starts attacking him and tearing into pieces. He wakes up, sitting up in his bed. And he's like, whew, bad dream over. Thank you, Jesus. And mind you, he's also a pastor out there. So he's a worship pastor out in Middle Tennessee. So he has this faith foundation. I think it's when he goes to the bathroom

and his wife sees him with his shirt off that he has cuts all over his back. And so now you're like looking at it, Was this dream of manifestation or did I do it myself? Was this real? It felt real, like a lucid dream. And then he, about a month later, is walking through the woods with his son. And that very creature is standing before him in this reality.

There we go. And it escorts them out of the woods. I mean, it easily could have got them, but it, like, escorted them out of the woods. And so you're saying phenomenon. and people might be thinking, okay, so he's talking to aliens. You're talking all of it. Yes.

Because there's even, there's even crossover to the Bigfoot world, in a sense, a lot actually. But with what you talked about last time, which I'll get to in a second, but I just want to finish with Hunter, he actually came out to the studio then about a year later and shared with me a dream that he had of me.

And in his dream, he was literally taken to my house because he described me here where you're sitting what my house looks like the shape of my driveway which is a unique shape like everything

he even drew it he drew my neighbor's house for me and he said he saw two cloaked like hooded figure standing behind me and they followed me into my house when I got on my truck

my truck one night and he was staying at the end of my driveway he knew my house number so like and I know there's people that'd be like you know oh, he's stocking you, bro. I've gone down that road.

I firmly believe he's not stalking me. But so he has this experience with the dream realm that involves me that just add to layer to his first dream, which is this dude, he's one of these people that have more than just dreams, right? And when it comes to the Bigfoot thing, I just want to encompass all things, like you just said, to the simple thing. that, and I made a note of this this this morning when I was listening back to our first interview, you mentioned about Pesolka and Taylor, why I'm like that? Tim Taylor. Tim Taylor. Tim,

Tim, the toolman, Taylor. Home improvement a joke. Oh, I'm a 90s kid. Okay. So he, you're talking about the feel with a meta material. Absolutely. And how if somebody holds it, that's not, that isn't compatible, it would dissolve. But the way you said it, you called it a gifting field. Correct. That's what they're terming it as now, yeah. Which is interesting because in the Bigfoot research world, these people have gifting areas that they gift these creatures,

and these creatures will take their quote-unquote gift of an apple. Oh, you want an apple, big guy? Right. And it will leave things in its place. And so it makes me wonder, it makes me wonder, as I was getting ready this morning, listening to this hit me. I was like, I wonder if it's in a similar vein

where it's like, you're doing this research into Bigfoot, and you left it an apple. I think the apple is probably inconsequential. It doesn't matter. But what is brought and left in its place, if you're able to receive that, could that be in the same vein as this gifting field with metamaterial? It just got my wheels turning.

And I was like, man, I really think that what he's talking about is encompassing everything. And so that's why I'm so glad just now you said everything. Yes, and that's on my part. I apologize for that because I am the, I'm a proponent rather of what's called the unified field theory, which is that all of the paranormal, at least the darker side,

it kind of tapers to one source. You know, in what I am suggesting and the evidence backs this, it's pattern confirming over and over again, is that usually what we're seeing are balls of light at first. And then the ball of light will project something, a physiological construct that we will believe is an actual entity. And what we've done, right, is we've bought into that, the diversification of the phenomenon to the point now where we're okay,

no, it's not this, it's this, right? And so it's got a thousand different aliases, even the alien. And all we're saying and others that I'm working with is like, okay, it's the same pathology. You know, even the gifting field, it's the same. You know, in biblical antiquity, it's exactly what the idolaters were doing. That's where all of this technology originated. Remember when I told you about how the phenomenon will tether itself to an object and material? That's where the gifting field originated, right?

An idolaters stoking the ambers of a dying fire called out to the darkness. I want you to do something. Well, okay, what am I going to do? I want you to perform head magic. I don't even know what that is. I do. It's okay. I want you to go into this location.

Where is that at? I'll lead you. Drops it out. Materialize it into this dimension. Now here's where the implant came from. Remember what I told you? It's just recontextualizing and euophology. The implant came from.

idolatry where the practitioner goes out again to an undisclosed location. The phenomenon says, go and pick up that piece of metal. This is T. Whitten Davies, by the way, for the researchers out there. T. Whitten Davies' work, Professor Esther Amory, as well from Union Theological Seminary, pick up that piece of metal and carve the name of an unclean spirit into it. And I will merge my memory into that meta material. It's not enough. It has to be a lot of it. It has to to be inside of someone. So I want you to go and get a cadaver and I want you to implant me

into that body. They placed it underneath the tongue. Same thing in eotology. And what would happen was somehow the meta material would activate the consciousness of the phenomenon. And now that cadaver has a host. He, she is the host.

They have to host the entity. and now the practitioner is conversing with the deceased body in the phenomenon has implanted its consciousness into someone. That's the implantation of the phenomenon. And so the two main pathologies I've understood in my research is that the phenomenon replicates by implantation and impregnation. And both of those are happening at the same time. So even in the implantation of consciousness, this plays a role. So I brought with me a gift for you because I wanted you to have this. Now, this is a paper that was declassified by the CIA in 2002.

It was originally written in Russian. It's about a series of experiments performed the USSR. What the Russians were doing, this has been one of the most fascinating breakthroughs. It's not mine, I wish it was. It's my dear Franian Latorz. Just a shout out her. But what they were doing, my friend, is they were taking practitioners of the occult, placing them in controlled environments, taking a blank piece of paper,

putting in an envelope, strapping it to their forehead. And Tony, they would say, okay, we want you to use your consciousness to carve a series of symbols into that piece of paper. And they did it. Wow. Step two was that they took the piece of paper and placed it across the room, away from the practitioner, and said, all right, do the same thing.

Focus your intent and your consciousness on that piece of paper. And all right, here. Here's the symbol we want you to carve into it. Down the line, they made it happen. They pulled out the envelope paper out there. They're all there. Now, the difference between the locations of the envelope made a profound effect. When the envelope was across the room during the ritual, this is going to be huge, during the ritual, there was a what's called a biofield created between the envelope and the practitioner.

it was it was a plasma field of light almost like a cloud a white cloud with corpuscular balls of light that are flashing and the practitioner is performing the ritual that cloud begins to move across the room whoa this could be heavy because i'm about to tie it in to some major breakthroughs when it descended down upon the envelope effectively they pulled the envelope out and there those those were the symbols. They were carved into the envelope. I have cases. And others that I'm working with are just recently bringing this stuff out too. Where, quote, UFO abductees have been in their living room

sleeping on their couch when their family watches a biofield. Thought it was extraterrestrials. Oops. No, it's not. A biofield moving in through the hallway into the living room descends down, eyewitness testimony, descends down upon the mother. 30 minutes later, she wakes up.

I was abducted by aliens, but she was covered from head to toe with sigils. Did they see her get abducted and leave? No, so she stayed there. Now we're starting to see the true nature of the phenomenon. See? That was a practitioner. She was. No.

She was a victim. She was a victim. The practitioner was somewhere near them, and it was carving its sighing. Whoa. Do you catch it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I always feel a weird one to talk about this because it's so deep. Yeah. It was projecting its consciousness, and when that biofield descended down upon her, afterwards burns, marks in. in subdermal scarifications, sigils, my friend. Okay, so we're going to keep going.

So when you say practitioner... Of the occult. So you're talking about a human practitioner. Wow. And this could be very loose as well. But what I'm about to suggest is, do you think that the idea... Like, she woke up and said she was abducted by alien.

That's the mask. So it's a sciop. The idea of the alien is a sciop for what's actually happening. 100%. 100%. My friend, back to it, and I'll get to the civilization here in a second. People, I made out the word. I didn't make up the word.

But when we're talking about even like the incubi cases, right, of hybridization and euphology, you asked me a profound question that my ADHD kicked in and I went another direction. But what we're seeing now is even the baby. that aren't being taken when they are born. They are being born to the point of ritualization. Dr. Carla Turner had one of these cases. They were saying that again. They were being born even into a ritual.

We're like even if it wasn't successful, the way they dispatched. Was a ritual at itself. Dr. Carlton, we didn't know this, right? This was what the Collins elite was doing. They knew all of the stuff, but a lot of the pieces weren't being put together. like it is today, because that was 50 years ago, probably 80 now, was 75 years ago.

So 75 years removed, they have these pieces, but what we're starting to do now, us were beneath the surface, but we're coming to the four, come to the four, we're starting to put the pieces together. And the phenomenon doesn't want this out. But Dr. Carlech Turner had a case of hybridism. And it was basically the humunculi ritual. Jeez. Where when it was born, it was born deceased, it was.

was a hybrid, but the phenomenon, and this is crazy, but when they did memory regression with this experiencer, she said, what I didn't remember, I had a birth. She's like, I just went and had surgery or something. They found, like, after birth, you know, scarification, my body and scar tissue. I didn't know what happened. She goes, it wasn't until a memory regression that I realized that, yeah, I was visited by an entity and that I was really having, like, going to convulsions in my bathroom. Watch this. The phenomenon had me placed that hybrid into a job. A glass jar. Hello. Liver vacay. Hello. Right. And bury it in the forest. And Dr. Turner's like, well, that's a very strange thing. What's going on here? That too is a part of a ritual.

So the phenomenon, again, it's almost performing rituals on one dimension. And we're seeing the result of it here. And so the experiencers are essentially a part of these rituals. And the phenomenon doesn't want it out. It's literally removing these portions of their memories from their life. Even to the point, my friend, were Dr. Turner. Okay. When Dr. Turner's son began being abducted, he went to her and said, Mom, I realized, like you said, this has been happening to you, it's starting to happen

to me. And so she's like wigging out, like, wait a minute. So she calls her ex-husband, his biological father. We need to have a family meeting, right? I'm still dealing with my abductions and helping people, but don't come after my babies, right? That's a whole other level of malevolence. So they had a family meeting. And out of nowhere, her husband looks at her and says, yeah, don't you remember when you got pregnant and it wasn't us?

No. Yeah. You said an entity took you, impregnated you, and you lost the baby. You woke up. We just threw all of the covers out and started from scratch. You don't remember that? I had no idea it even happened. So my point to summarize all of this is that these rituals are being performed.

They're being performed on experiencers, the symbols that we're finding, and this is another pig trail that's groundbreaking because it's not that it hasn't been happening. It's that a lot of us are coming forward with the data to where now we're allowed to say, okay, this is what's going on. That the sigils are not just on the skin, Tony. They're under the skin. Okay. So on the inside. Inside out, I have a handprint of an entity pushing its way through the skin. It's not the top part of the hand. It's the inside of the hand. And it's pushing its way through the body. But you have a picture of this? I have a picture of it.

I'll show it to you after the show. Absolutely. Now, the second thing I want to make sure everybody understands is this, that these archetypes that the phenomenon masquerades as, they are not real in and of themselves. Okay. So the same alien that is placing sigils on skin today was the same demon placing sigils on skin yesterday. Aleister Crowley came out and said, today they will be called demons.

and angels. Tomorrow, there'll be called something else. Now, here's the game changer. Recently, I discovered a quote from the heir of the Lima, Crowley's individual that Crowley mentor, his name's Kenneth Grant. Kenneth Grant in his book, one of his books, he talks about how that there will come a day, and my colleagues and I have been focusing on this solely, because we knew there's going to be a shift of terminology to where we witness, right, the phenomenon involves cornered awareness. That's when we all held a breath. It was like, okay, it's going to shift. And when it shifts, we've got to maintain it, right? We've got to keep all of the evidence, because it's going to be wanting to be called something different. It's not something different.

So, Kenneth said, oh, yeah, by the way, today they'll be wanting, they'll be, they won't worship, but he said, but today they'll be called extraterrestrial and not angels and demons. And here we go. He said, they'll want worship. but they'll be extraterrestrial. And here's the most important part. He said, and by the way, we have their sigils. We have their sigils. The Lima has their sigils.

So what that did was it kind of took all the research I and others have been doing and put it in line and said even the occultists, no, they're not extraterrestrial. There's something deeper and darker out there that's trying to manipulate. our species. And so what I have is a collection of sigils underneath the skin. Okay. Can I go on a little bit further on this? Please. So the purpose of a sigil in the occult is to basically carve the pictorial

signature. Here we go. Not of a demon of a practitioner. Okay. The forefather and grandfather of civilization is Austin Osman Spar. He was an occultist. His philosophy was that when a practitioner can carve his symbols or their symbols into something or someone, they do that so they can project, remember what I told you with that paper, their intent. They project their intentions into that signature of theirs. And in that ritual, they will determine the effects that will have on that experiencer. So I have cases, like for instance, I work with various experiences. I have an individual whose father was a remote viewer.

Okay. And he said that his father was taken by these beings. He would go in out-of-body states and all kinds of really, really wild stuff. He said, Nathaniel, he said, my dad believed they were his guides. and he said so he would he would do sessions he would come back into his body and he would call up he's like i watched all the time he'd call up a local politician hey don you're can you know how's your campaign going i know your election's up here in a week i want you to focus on this part of you know the area not this you know focus on them they're going to give you more votes and they would pay him tens of thousand dollars to do it he would talk to athletes don't sign this contract who told you my guides that was the kind of relationship with the

phenomenon he had. And so one day I was doing a lecture on sigils and skin anomalies and just really crazy stuff. And then I get an email. The next thing I know, I'm like, I know exactly what this is. You know, because there's a lot of people that, like, all right. Anyways, right. So I'm like, okay, you know, my stomach's growling at me. I'm possessed. I had one of those. And I was like, no, just go get some Chipotle. You just, you know, that's it. Yeah. So I'm on the phone with this individual. And he is, for you. out. He goes, Nathaniel, I've never heard anybody talk about this. I said, well, tell me what your experience was. He said, he went through the whole story that's father. He said, one day, Tony,

he said, my father comes stumbling down the stairs. He's white as a ghost. He's holding his chest and he's crying. And he said, I knew he just got back from a session, but something went very, very wrong. He said, I'm trying to get him out of this stupor. He said, but all of a sudden, he just passes out has a massive heart attack. So his father is incapacitated. And when the EMS gets there, right, they start doing, they start doing compression.

I mean, they have his shirt off. I have pictures of this, too. And as they're working on him, they stop because they see these burns from underneath his skin, Tony. They're forcing their way subdermally to the surface. Jeez.

That's what we're dealing with. It's not like, and people don't get that. It's not like, okay, just throw a bottle of holy water at these things. And we'll, you know, take two of these, like Michael Scott said, called me in the morning. Remember that episode? Remember two? Never mind. Of course I do.

Yes. It's an office reference. Sometimes it gets too dark and I have to make these references. Anyways, welcome. Yeah. They're working on him. The first thing they see is the Star of David. People are going to say it's something else.

We'll just, okay, whatever, Star of David. then there's the cross and then there is an overarching Egyptian hieroglyphic forcing its way to the surface and so this is all underneath the scan the cross of David the cross star of David the cross

and then in Egyptian hieroglyphic it's called chaos magic by the way so we know it's not an accident these were sorcerers they're performing sigilization So you're saying what that experience is isn't even an entity as much as a practitioner.

Yes. That's the correct model, my friend. Whoa. Even incubi entities. If you look at the literature, Sinistraria of Amino, let me get passionate. Sinistrar of Amino was going into homes within an hour of the phenomenon materializing secretions on hybrid mothers. Secretions. and when they peeled back their eyelids,

they had sigils under their eyelids, Tony. That is what we're talking about. The phenomenon, these are practitioners. And that has been the longest argument demonology. Is it a demon or is it a practitioner? They could never determine, right? Does it have a body?

If it has a body, why is it secreting something that's compatible with our species? It never made sense to them. and they never fully agreed on it. And so that's where we are. But back to my point, as they're working on this individual, this remote viewer,

he's like, we finally got him back alive, pulse and everything. We take him to the hospital. They get him medicated and they sit him down. And he's like, dad, can we talk?

His dad's like, I don't want to talk about it. By this time, the burns have moved from underneath the skin to the surface. Remember the experience that I told you about? The mother,

same thing happened to her. firstly we're burns right same thing where the where the i want to say cloud i don't think that's the word you used but came down on her absolutely yeah wow yeah it's the same pathology same thing and so what happened was he's like dad what happened he goes well i don't understand it he goes i'm scared of death he goes i that's why i had a heart attack like it it destroyed everything i believed in he's like okay what happened he goes okay step by step he goes i went into my regular session like i always do i dispossessed my body and pause for a second i i think i'm I'm missing something that I just, I'm not connecting.

The father session of what? What was he doing? He was a remote viewer. He was a remote viewer. Yeah. So he would get paid to remote view and then he would go out and give prophecies to people for the way. Yeah.

Crazy stuff. So he's like, you know, son, he goes, I wanted to my regular session like I do. And he goes, I thought I was beating with my guides. He's like, but I'm in a metallic room. And he said, next thing I know, these entities are flanking. me on my right and left sides. And he's like, I start questioning, where did I go? Who am I talking to? Right? And he said, that's when the entities realized that he no, now this is, we're going to have to talk about this again, because I'm going to do another. I'm going to give you

another case to work, tie this in together. He said, I realized that the phenomenon or whatever these beings were, they realized, I didn't believe in them. I didn't believe they who were, they were who they wanted me to believe. Like, they appeared as one thing, but I knew there was something completely different and they sniffed it out. They realized, uh-oh, I'm not following the protocol. He said when that happened, he said they shapeshifted into something inhuman. And he said, the amount of fear I felt was unworldly, preternatural. And he said, that's when I slammed back into my body. And he said, that's when I came downstairs. He said, I didn't know what had happened fully, but I knew I needed attention. So the learning matrix is something we

need to talk about too. The phenomenon evolves according to our awareness of it. Okay. So I've had cases of incubi entities where specifically one individual is a wife. So the sexual pathology of the phenomenon is primarily women. Even the Vatican will say that. 90% of the possession cases are male and female. Most practitioners, male. It's crazy how many of the these stars are lining. Anyways, so, yeah, yeah. So anyways, this individual had reached out to me because she said, she knows like, you know, I've been being groomed by this entity. And I said, well, what does it look like? And it's always, right, an archetype from the mind. She said,

well, at first she's like I was laying in bed. She said, I see this shadow figure move to my peripheral, my left side of my eye. She's going to see it. I look at it. And she goes, when I engage with it, it's my husband. Right. And she says, we copulate. She said, but I remember before the event taking place, I went into the stupor where I just, I got really tired. Remember theta brainwave activity? The phenomenon, when you look at it long enough, it induced you into that.

She's like, yeah, she's on, I'm there. And next thing I know, it's happening. And she goes, and I just, I didn't understand what was going on, but it was okay. And you probably heard this many times, too. It was my husband. she's like, but after everything was done, she goes, he's now back to my left side again. But the physiognomy is shifting. It's not able to hold its form.

And so she's like, I'm interfacing with him, but there's facial features that are shifting. And she said, that's when the stupor began to lift. I'm coming to myself. I'm looking at this entity. And then I realize my husband's not there. He's right here and he's been asleep the whole time. More importantly, Tony, I knew that before this thing manifested. Why didn't I know it during an event?

Wow. The phenomenon took control of her perception. How many times do you hear that in just, in not even such extreme cases, but like people have experiences and they're like, I don't know why I didn't connect the dots. I mean, that happens to me even at times. Just like in general, there's like, you're like, why didn't I think of that sooner? You know, it's like, it's almost like there was this, this, this, this blockage of, of common sense. Yes.

Yes. Yes. It's been like, it's been sucked out of the room. The unction that would say, hey, this is not right, right, look away. Don't even engage with it. Yeah. No, it wants it, again, and I, and I've spoken other research about this, Dr. David Jacobs, as mentioned this, the theory is that they're hacking the optic nerve.

I think it's that, and they're staring into our, eyes, right, to again induce us into trances. And I've even had cases where it's like they're going through a roll of decks of archetypes in our minds like mine, right? I thought it was my ex at the time in that nightmare. Why? Because it picked it out of my own mind and said, you're more gollable if I represent myself as something you would trust, right? So we have to test the spirits. And so that's when this individual told me about that I thought, man, that's crazy. So I wrote that down in my archives. I filed it for something to think about. later. And then I started working with another experiencer where I started realizing, not for the

first time, but where the theory started solidifying itself, that there's a learning matrix present. This individual was being taken as a child. And when I spoke to her, she was like 50 years old. But her story was that they were taking her as a child in whenever they would manifest to her, they would manifest to her as her favorite comic book character and her favorite cartoon. Now, that's a learning matrix, right? It's adapting. It's evolving according to our awareness of it. What is the difference between man and a cryptid? A ghost, right? It's nothing. It's trying to, it's called a simulant. It's stimulating portions of all reality so that we will misunderstand what's going on. So I'm rambling. I know.

So watch this. Perfect place for that, man. Yeah, I know. This individual says that the entity manifested to, again, it's Archie and Betty and all these these cartoon characters, comic book characters. She said, the problem is Nathaniel. She said, there for a two or three year period, it never showed up. She said, but that's what I hit puberty. So I stopped watching these cartoons. I stopped reading these comic books. Here's the Loving Matrix. They show up again as those cartoons.

She said it's so funny. She goes, now she goes, the problem is I've grown a little bit. So now I'm staring at this entity that is desperately trying to deceive me with its appearance. She then goes, and it's the same thing in remote viewer said, there was a, there was a, a, a, a profound response on the part of the phenomenon.

She said, because I started to realize this is a lie, you are not this entity. You're something different. You're masquerading as an archetype. She said, when I realized that, the phenomenon changed. She said the entities, the cartoon characters, eyes got big. This is weird. And they move like this. like lenses.

And she said, and I, she said, the only way I can explain this was it was measuring my belief. Who do you mean say it I am? My belief in the image it was projecting. Whoa.

And she said, that's a learning matrix. And so when we're interfacing with the phenomenon, again, one of the ways to test the spirit, if you are who you claim to be, you're going to hold to this. Because what we're seeing is,

it's not just cartoon characters. Now we're seeing Yeshua, who's not teaching anything Yeshua taught. Because it's not Yeshua. Wow. So what you're talking about here takes me all the way back to 2017. I just started my show. I have it pulled up here.

It was on May 13th. I released an episode 17 called Touching a Bigfoot. I had a guy Jason on, who him and I would have a very different conversation today than we would have back, than we did back then because I'm totally different in my thought processes. But as a child, he talked about a lot of different things on the episode.

I don't remember, Mom, some things stick out. As a child, he was in, he was being raised in an old farmhouse. I believe he was adopted. And there was, there was an entity that appeared before him. I'm not sure if he described as an entity, but it changed the way it looked. It flashed all these images. And I remember him saying one of the images was Fred Flintstone. There we go.

And it was just flashing these images rapidly, rapidly. And I think maybe it's settled on Fred Flintstone, but it was like this idea of recognition. Now, fast forward, he has a lot of different experiences in his life. But fast forward to at the point of him touching a big foot, I just remember him reaching into a bush and there was something in there. And he literally touched its fur. on a grand scale, would you suggest that what he experienced as a kid flashing before him and the touching of that creature, the same thing? Same phenomenon, yeah. Now, let's get back into, now, cryptids and cryptos geology, my dear friend Paul St. Clair is doing some of the best work.

I've lectured with him. He's an amazing guy. But the research that we're doing, and not just him but I and others, is the fact that what we're dealing with are programs. They have learning matrices. If you disbelieve in the image, it affects the learning matrix. It stops. It's a hiccup. It's the same thing that happened in witcherer literature.

In Eros and Evil by Ariel Masters, he was detailing cases of witches and warlocks that were being flown to a location by entities. Now, here's the kicker. They thought they were copulating with demons and corpses. The witches did. The witches dead. Willingly. Willingly, right? The rituals are the same, remember?

The rituals are the same. So what happened was in the middle of one of these events, a frequency fuzzed out, right? The learning matrix that had controlled their perception of reality diminished. Like it's like a phone that lost three bars, right? And suddenly they're not on the backside of a hill. These aren't even demons. They're not corpses. They're certainly not aliens.

Here we go. They were being poked and prodded by metallic objects that were designed to feel like, a man, to be perceived as human, but it was technology. From where and what? It was technology. The rituals, again, the rituals were being performed, right? But there was a presence of technology there that they could not account for. And by the way, transcended their scientific method at the time.

And so this is another key point that I need to make, that a lot of people have this kind of model where it's, science or spirituality. That's never been the biblical model. The biblical model was these beings wanted worship in exchange for technology. That's what it was. It's what it was.

These beings want worship in exchange for technology. So you're saying they want you, human being, worship them in exchange they give you technology. Absolutely. It's happening right now. Indeed it is. Indeed it is.

Artificial intelligence. Mm-hmm. And my point here, though, is that Paul St. Clair's work is revolutionary because in the breaking down of archetypes, is this really what it wants us to believe? And so one of his cases include a wolfman or a dogman, rather, that is running parallel to a speeding car. This is brilliant. A love pole. The problem is it's only moving, it's very, moving very slow, but it's keeping up with a 50 mile an hour. car.

So the gate is not matching its speed because it's not a real entity. Number two, if I can go deeper, number two, a lot of these beings are showing up in places that does not, they do not have its food source. They couldn't even survive where they are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the phenomenon incarnating an archetype. And so these are simulations of reality of the phenomenon. phenomenon where again, we're thinking, oh, man, that's a separate phenomenon. No, it's not.

That is a construct. And a lot of these beings are literally projections, there's a lot of constructs of balls of light, orbs. Now, I'll do this and I'll shut up, I guess, after this point, man. You're fine. So watch this. So again, what it's done is it's diversified its identity in our eyes. Now, we have cases in cryptosurology of these balls of light, coming out of the ground, right? And we'll see them, project something. And so we're interfacing with the projection, not the proto-intelligence. And that's not the sense, not just cryptozoology in hauntology, Lloyd Arbock, right?

This is called person. In hauntology, there had an investigation, right? And they kept seeing this apparition of a woman. And they're like, man, this is crazy. We keep seeing the same apparition. And I wonder if we can capture it on films. cameras are all up there, right? They didn't capture the apparition.

They captured the orb. But the orb was always behind the apparitions. It's crazy. So that's when they realized, oh, my God, that apparition may or may not even be real. It's a projection of this orb. Now watch this. If that apparition isn't real, is there an afterlife? If that apparition isn't real, do they even exist?

at all, right? Or is this the same phenomenon that's projecting cryptids, the same phenomenon even with that abduction case that's projecting images of extraterrestrials, right? Or are we looking at something that is a singular proto-intelligence that is masquerading as various phenomena in order to hide itself in our presence? I'm going to exist, but you can call me whatever you want. I'll be that. here's the root of it. Give me an offering and I'll give you something back. Go bow down in my presence. Sure.

It'll be CE5. Forget the fact that it comes straight out of the Munich Manual for Necromancy. Forget about all that. Because that's the source. I'm going to say something that I don't expect you to, if it was me, if somebody said this to me, I'd be like, stop. I feel like you're one of the most important researchers I've ever had on the show. And I mean that.

Thank you, man. It's been rough on me for a while. And I feel like I'm not even catching everything you're saying at times because you are very far down that rabbit hole. And it's hard. And I can sympathize with it. It's hard to come out of the hole and make it palatable for other people. I'm catching you, though. but I'm just like, I'm captivated by this because the implications and there's just so many different ways to attack it conversationally, thought process-wise.

You're bringing up the orbs. So maybe this can kind of introduce maybe an opinion piece for you as to what your thoughts are on, the idea of how connected to what you're spitting out here is the entertainment industry. Because there is a kids movie that I watched just the other day with my kids. And they said that they watched it before. After I watched it with them, I said absolutely not. No more. It turns out, mom stopped it halfway through, and I didn't know that.

And I don't even know who made it. I assume it's Disney because it's just blamed Disney for it. But it's a movie called Brave. And it's a cartoon movie. And there's a lot of red flags in that movie. And I sat and explained to my kids the best I could why they weren't watching it anymore. But we'll start off with just the surface level stuff. There's a lot of sexual innuendos in there that don't need to be in kids movies.

And they're manipulating and training my child and your child. anybody's child, for their brain to think a certain direction. And it's grooming our children to be sexual beings well before their time. An example is there was a scene that there was like, I guess, a maid of the kings standing off to the side. And it was like you see the vantage point of standing on top of the stairs and she's down below. The amount of cleavage that I saw. And I was just like, is that necessary? But my eyes caught it.

And she was like a heavier woman. And I was just like, I don't know. Probably overreacting. Like literally the next scene is her running away. And there's these little three little bears that were turned into, their boys turned into bears at one point. And the third one was missing. And she's like, where's the other one?

And it's above her. And the whole thing was she had a key that they needed that was in her blouse, in her breasts. And the bear jumps down her blouse to get the, keys and and it actually cuts scenes it shows the bear falling and then it cuts scenes away because it's like you can't show that and it but it put the image in my children's mind of like well what's next makes you wonder what's next right yeah um so there's there's that and there's a lot of things we could go but that's neither here nor there in the movie in the woods there's these blue

orbs. And these blue orbs at times seem to be laying the path for the character to follow. And it leads to this big bear that wind up trying to chase and attack the character

and kill them and survive it. That bear pops back up later in the last scene. The last scene is the mom was turned into a bear too, through witchcraft, of course. And the mom

bear fights this other bear to save her family. And it slams, funny, there was a ritual circle that this fight happened in. It reminiscent of, I'm drawing a blank on the, the big stones out across the sea, the ocean. Stonehenge. Stonehenge. Reminiscent of Stonehenge. And she slams this big bear into the rock, and it cracks. But this bear is bigger than her. And it kicks her off. And it's, the bear's coming to take her out, that big rock breaks and falls on top of the bear and kills it.

When that happened, it's like, it's over. And all of a sudden you see this, like, magical-looking thing happen. And then from the bear that squished under the rock, through the rock, appears a blue orb. And that blue orb turned into a man and just looked at them and just went away. That's exactly what we're talking about. And I was just like, I watched it. I was like, mom, let you guys watch this?

And I find out. And she's like, and she stopped it well before that part. I was like, oh, so you saw signs. And I just ruined that. But it's like, and even in the next scene, mom, she needs this special cloak to put on top of her as a bear. She turns back into mom. And there is this acknowledgement that she's completely naked underneath this blanket. It says it to her king of husband.

And then he looks at his soldiers who are standing there, jaw dropped, just staring at it. at her. He's like, have some respect. And so it's this idea that like they were fascinated by her nakedness, children's movie, you know? And it's things like that. I'm just like, eh. It's grooming. Yeah. And I mean, I should have cut it off as soon. I should have just been like, you and your mom and I were going to have a conversation that she'd let you watch this. And it turns out she didn't. I did accidentally. But the whole reason I bring that up is because there is an element, I believe, that the entertainment industry, music, movies, TV shows, these ideas and concepts are planted into the entertainment for us to consume to normalize it. Now, do you think that the people

creating this stuff are implanting it consciously because they're part of that? They're either a practitioner or something, or do you think it's these ideas that came to them in dreams that they thought, oh, I'm just that creative, us put in a movie? Both. I had recently had a conversation with a Dr. Divinity, who I have a crazy life, first of all. Because I'm like in the middle, right? I'm trying to bring this research forward in the relationships. I've formed with people. It's just you would never think.

It'd be like, what? Anyway, so we're talking. I said, okay, what was your thesis on? She goes, evil spirits. I said, okay, do you ever talk about sigils? So even the church world in many ways, right, completely blinded to this phenomenon. Oh, yeah. I mean, they would be like, okay, you know, and that's not a rebuquer thing.

I'm just saying that the depth of this darkness, it would be almost unbearable to some. But, and I'm not glorifying the dark anyways. But my point, though, is that it's absolutely. So anyways, I'm talking to this, Dr. Divinity, right? And I can't disclose a lot of it, but I was like, how did you get in contact with my work? Like, what about it did you connect with? And she said, it was a sigil. It's okay, what happened?

She said, well, she goes, I signed an NDA, a non-disclosure agreement with a hip-hop artist. And she goes, out of nowhere, I get this phone call from friend. The next thing I know I'm at this hotel and I go into this banquet room and here comes this artist. And she's like, you know, he goes, I had to perform these rituals in order to get my music and my songs. And he's like, and at first he's like, it was just a ritual. I didn't think anything of it. whatever, I'll sign a check. He's like, my next thing I know, some things started manifesting to me and through me. He goes, and by the way, here's the huge, by the way, what are these on my back

pulls his shirt off and there's sigils all over his back? Whoa. Yeah, that's what we're dealing with. And it's infiltrated in the entertainment. It's infiltrated, I mean, virtually everything. And that's why I'm here today, Tony. Somebody's got to make a stand. Not that we haven't already done that, but we have to do it with the data. Yeah. Right? It's one thing to believe it. It's another thing to say, listen, it's being corroborated by people who don't even believe in this stuff.

And they got here, again, like the scientists in the 70s. They got here by virtue of the scientific method. Right. Of course, I could pull out T. Whitton Davies books on Demonology in the Ancient Air East and say, well, yeah, it seems like they're inducing people in the trances. It's another thing for them to say, hey, no, man. We put a brain wave monitoring unit and we captured the theta brainwave activity. Yeah, they're absolutely doing that to people. That's what gets me so passionate because I've been a lifelong experiencer, and it's no longer a, you know, a thing of our imagination.

It's not just a belief. This is actually happening. We have to answer for that. But my point to you was, yeah, so the phenomenon will create simulence to appear a part of our reality, but it's not. And so it's doing that also not just with cryptids and ghosts, but even some of the, quote, demons we're witnessing in the field aren't even biblical at all. They're just, again, right, creations and constructs where the phenomenon can masquerade as horns and hooves until you engage it, right? I have a good friend of mine as a show host. The confessionals?

Yeah. Yes, that's my good friend of mine. Best friend. Yeah, best friend. There we go, bud. And when I started to introduce this material on his show, like you, he was like, what? Now, I was the same way, right? When I first started reading this and getting these pieces together, I'm like, this can't, this, I don't want this to be true.

Yeah. And then so I'm talking to him. And he's like, yeah, he goes, so let me give you an experience. I said, okay, he goes, all right. And he goes, he's a print of researcher. He's like, so we went to go do an investigation at this haunted house. And he's like, and he was very haunted. very haunted. He said, and we ended up calling a priest in, and here comes the priest, and the priest was like, I'll tell you what I'll do, where's the most active room in the house?

So it's over there. It's in the kitchen. Okay, fine. So he pulls out a vial of holy water. Now, again, the phenomenon is masquerading. Come get me, I'm a demon, right? All that. He goes in, places the vial of holy water in the most violent room in the home. They lay back and watch as the phenomenon. siphoned the holy water from the vial until it was no longer there. Where's the water go? It disappeared. Gone. It went down. It picked up the vial of holy water. What do we do with us?

I don't know. Take it home, bud. We don't need you. So what it does, again, and this is the whole purpose of it manifesting as archetypes, because, again, a cartoon. If I appear as your cartoon, Tony, that I'm going to follow cartoon rules. I'm not going to do any civilization on you. you. I'm your buddy. Likewise with the incubus. It's the same pathology. Of course, I'm not going

to do anything bad to you. I'm a predictable manifestation. I'm your lover and I'm your husband. I'm your betrothed. What's up? And then afterwards, right, it stretches its pathology beyond the archetype. And you realize, oh my God, that was never a ghost. That's not during Edna. That's not an extraterrestrial. Those aren't my guides. Right. And it's something different. And This is why I sent you the text earlier about what's going on right now in Uphology. Eric Burleson, he's a state representative. He went to a briefing with David Grush. It's coming on the show soon.

Is he? Yeah. I met him in West Virginia with Tim. That's awesome. Yeah. So Grush mentioned a contactee, and I want you to watch the flipping of this, and it worries me, is that this contactee was. engage with an alien or an angel.

Okay. Or a, I don't know, right? It's either or. Flipping of it. The flipping of it terrifies me. Here's why. Because I'm a huge fan of Heiser, as you are you. Yeah.

As is anybody that has a thumb on the phenomenon, right? Yeah. And this contactee is starting to manifest the evolution of the phenomenon. Heiser dies. next thing you know yeah Jesus is part of the divine counsel and I'm an alien

ding I'll tell you what we're doing in the field we're going time out yeah see it you just evolved you just updated

the learning matrix now you're channeling aliens and guess what it's doing here's a prophecy okay that's cool man and so what I'm looking at this as and those that I'm working with,

we're notating the evolution of the phenomenon. Now we're in a new stage where now we have to literally counteract what's being said. Is it an alien? What could be? Aliens are angels too. That worries me. Because what's going to start happening is, and this is already being induced,

the UFO of God, all of it, is where it will confirm some of it. therefore it's divine. The divine feminine. Yes. Divine feminine. And in demonology, it's the false divine.

Watch this. It's Hotho, but it is the Holy Spirit. You see where I'm going with us? Yeah. It's the Holy Spirit. Watch this. It's the Holy Spirit, but it is also Mother Mary. Yep.

Now, what it's doing, it's the archetype. I got chills, man. I don't know why. I'm passionate. But it's the archetype. Yeah, I'm the Virgin Mary, but I'm also the Holy Spirit. You can't be both of them. It's not a pantheon.

The Holy Spirit hovered over Mother Mary. She didn't hover over herself. But that's where the Learning Matrix fails. Right? Yeah, we'll have a little bit of this. I'll have all the worship. But I'm still going to put Hawthor in there because that is the source. I want it all.

So that's what we're dealing with, my friend. Okay. you need to step back. Stop laughing to me, Jack. Say what you're thinking now. You're interjecting yourself into my show. Jack's on the side. I hear him giggling because he knows where my brain is just kind of like glitching.

So you bringing up, you say Hothor. I say Hathor. Hathor. I used to say Hathor. But I think it's Hathor. You say Hothor. I'll say Hothor because I think it's more intellectual now that you say. Hothor.

Hathor. What do you mean by that? Hothor is the source. I think it's close to the source. I think, again, the whole purpose is to consolidate worship for itself. I want everything that you would have given to the Holy Spirit. I want it for me. Okay. Pause. I got to say this because this has been written on my heart for the last 30 minutes. And I tried making notes of it. And I just got to get this out because what you just said, this is extremely why. It's important. It's not legalistic. What I'm about to say is for your own survival. You must pursue pleasing God. You must pursue closeness. The way we do

that is through, I don't, I'm going to say legalism, because I don't know how else to say it, but it's not legalism. It's, it's being kind of, of doing what's right, what pleases God, and not doing what doesn't please God. You can call it legalism, but what in reality it does is it keeps the Holy Spirit close to you. When you're pursuing God and trying to do what pleases God, it keeps the dividers down that comes up between you and God and allows the Holy Spirit to reside close to you. When the Holy Spirit is residing close to you, you now have discharges. sermon and you now recognize what the Holy Spirit is and what the Holy Spirit isn't.

When you have the Holy Spirit residing close to you and you walk close with God like Enoch did, now you can say, no, Hathor, you're not the Holy Spirit. No, you're not the Mother Mary. You are an ancient Egyptian goddess who's trying to make a return to the people of today. That can only happen when you let the Holy Spirit reside close to you. The Holy Spirit doesn't doesn't go in and out. It doesn't leave you and then come back. It's you that's leaving the Holy Spirit. It's you that's migrating away from the Holy Spirit. And you're not, oh, I don't, I don't hear the Holy Spirit. I don't feel the Holy Spirit like I used to. It's because you aren't doing what you used to do. And so I have to interject here because of where this conversation is

going. This is how you combat these things. You let the Holy Spirit, you let God reside close to you. You reside close to him is how I should be saying it. draw close to him, do what's pleasing to him, strive for perfection in Christ knowing you'll never achieve it. The more you strive towards it, the more the Holy Spirit is you're close to the Holy Spirit and it can speak to you. You recognize the Holy Spirit's voice. You recognize what the Holy Spirit is and who he is so that when these impostors come up, you're not fooled. There is a whole world of people right now that are being fooled by imposters because they never even tried drawing close to the Holy Spirit. That's my rant.

They don't know what it feels like. And if I can say this, the phenomenon is going to introduce an unclean auction, an unclean auction. When Paul, when he was dealing with his Christology, Paul said, I betrothed you to one, not two, not three or four different archetypes that you collapse into one. No. And when Paul, this is incredible, too, is Paul goes through it. And I've always heard this when I was in church. Okay. You know, it's like, all right. Growing up, like, all right. You know, it's, um, it trolled you to one and, uh, you know, it's one,

if another spirit comes to another God. It went with you, another Jesus comes to you. Why? Because there's going to be two. It's not the anti-annoying. It's the replacement. Anybody would say, yeah, that's not Yeshua. Yeah.

That's Tommy. No, that's not his argument. His argument, and it's even, it's a multitude of arguments. Number one's layer. Number one, if another Yeshua comes to. you, other than the one that I betrothed you to, don't accept it. But it goes down to the pathology of the phenomenon. We've had other Jesus come. We can read through that. We're not prepared for another unction. And Paul said, if another spirit comes to you, other than the one you've

received. How did you receive it? I've received it in covenant. I get that. But if another one comes to you that wants to give you all the gifts, right? I'll be this God to you. It's going to do healings and miracles, signs and wonders. It's going to demand worship. And that was Paul's point. I betrothed you to one husband. Remember the case study of mine? There's another husband that's going to come over here and act like you should consummate. Yeah. But it's not the real one. And so it's a multi-layered deception. And what we're going to start seeing now on the field is something that my colleagues and I have been worried about for a long time now. It's where, yeah, angels are extraterrestrial and they're fluid and we could just change the terminology,

but we don't realize if you change the terminology, you kind of change the origin. If you change the origin, you really change who they are and what they want, right? And so what I'm really worried about, though, is the fact that there are people that are in contact with contactees that have told them, one specifically wrote the UFO of God, that it's time for you you go into church and lay hands on people and heal people. Say that last, say that, because you brought you over God.

There's a man that wrote a book called the U of God, UFO God, that has been told, and I had this in high confidence, that soon it will be time to go into churches and lay hands on people. Good luck. You realize what I just said. Now we're seeing the direct materialization of let the God by,

that answers by fire be God. We thought it was imagination. No, it will literally come down. Okay, look, you have miracles too, don't you? Absolutely. From Hawthor? Yeah. All right.

You can edit that out, by the way. No, absolutely not. People need to understand that. The same entities that are gifting technology out in the gifting fields are, again, it's the same problem, are now, oh, yeah, hey, man. And I know the person I said it, I'll tell you after the show. But yeah, it's, it's, that's what we're looking at. And it's the constant, it's sick. It's the sickness of the phenomenon and it's pathogenic in what we're going to see in the next decade.

So you're saying that the idea is that at some point in the future, maybe near future, there's going to be time. Maybe there's instructions involved as to when to do this, but to go into the church and heal people, lay on hands on people. So the only way that can happen is if you're going to. into churches who do not abide by the teachings of scripture. Yeah, but- Which are plenty. Exactly.

But my point here, brother, is that they will be groomed and primed to receive an unclean unclane auction. The church. The church will be. Many of them will. Many of them will. An uncleanction. You have no idea how time in this conversation is.

Oh, I know. It's an unclean spirit. It's not the Holy Spirit. It's unclean. It will have miracles, right? But you have to test them. This is why it was so important. Who do men say that I am?

Do you know me? Have I been so long with you that you didn't know? Me that broke the bread, right? Yeah. Me. And so again, it's like, okay, now this is where I've been so passionate and worked out for this interview. And I've been facing a lot of mental anguish over it. My dad had a near sleep paralysis the night before we got in the car.

car to drive here. It's been that heavy on me, Tony, because this conversation is so important because it's not something we can just shrug off and say, well, one day, I'll have the tools. No, we need to realize what's going on. And it's not, it may not even just be a fight for our souls. It might be a fight for reality or portions of reality. And if it can fake an unction, it can fake a testimony. If it can pick a testimony, it'll fake doctrine. And soon we'll have false doctrine, false unction, but that's, that's what's happening, literally.

And it comes to people, again, what's unnerving about this is here we have Misslers gone. Heiser's gone. Isar. Right. Do you remember, do you remember what Heiser's last post was before he died?

He said, I believe I'm going to die and become a part of what? Become a part of the Divine Council. Guess what? All of a sudden, the government releases this data I'm in a contact with a in a contact. He's in the Doug Shee, right? Oh, what does he say?

Yeah, Jesus is part. And the problem is some of that's probably true. A lot of it's wrong. But what's happening again is that the government, when they don't want this out, they'll come out with, yeah, there are different species, right? And I've had conversations that said there's, you know, there's really not. even the biologics are merely apparitional, right? They could be here one day and gone the next.

And so what are we looking at? And that's kind of where I'm at right now. And in terms of my present research is we're not, we're beyond the worship part, at least my colleagues and I, we're beyond the sacrifices, we're beyond the gifting. You guys weren't doing it.

I just want to clarify. We're not doing the worship anymore. We're not doing the sacrifices anymore. We're way beyond that. No, not at all. No, none at all. For people who are half listening. Oh, people will have less in the comments.

There are some practice on the alcohol. I've had that, you know? Of course, yeah. Yeah, my point, though, is we're way beyond researching that pathology and that understanding. And now we're back to, okay, how much of reality is the phenomenon in control of, if any, getting back to Steve Mayor and Barry Fitzgerald, to their research and home investigations where the phenomenon had taken, oh, my. God, this is going to be wild. Probably the most wildest stuff I've said all day. But with respect to reports where the phenomenon would materialize something into a room,

this time the phenomenon was taking things and replacing them. And so a couple had a series of coffee mugs they purchased. One of them went missing. I couldn't find it for months. They'd come home one day and the phenomenon had replaced it. All of them were back together again. And they're like, wait a minute. It's been here the whole time.

We've been looking for it. We come into the kitchen, look at the table all the time. It's suddenly manifested. There's a problem here. So they call Steve Merritt, and that's true. They do an isotopic ratio study on it. What is that? That's when they go down underneath the microscope and look at the ratio of what are called isotopes, literally, in the basic DNA of the mug.

What they realize is they compared the isotopes of that mug, the phenomenon gave them to the other coffee mugs they originally had. and they originally had, they were different. So the original one was taken. It was replaced by something that looked like the coffee mug, Tony, but it wasn't the same one. And so where I'm at now, and this has been really bothering me because it's like, okay, how do I interpret reality?

Because if it could do that with a coffee mug, in the other case, one of theirs, again, with the figurine where they shattered against the wall, they didn't realize that was a part of the phenomenon. The phenomenon needed that. to anchor its presence in their home. So it brought it back. So it brought it back, Tony.

Brought it back. If that's the case, again, it turns all of the paranormal on its head. It turns demonology on its head. What kind of demons? I'm an unclean spirit. I'm going to possess somebody. No, there's technology involved.

Right? And there's a manipulative reality to where it will introduce simulants. Now, something that appears to be a part of our reality but it isn't. And at the time of the phenomenon's choosing, it can remove it. Replace it with,

watch this, someone else? I'll give you a case study of that. Please, because, I mean, now you're talking about people who are walking around

that aren't actually people. There we go. They're not even hybrids, by the way. They're literally a part of the proto-intelligence. This is something that Nick Redfern articulated in his books about the men-in-black,

where he was discussing the men-and-black visitations, right, in World War I where people are just open their doors. It's men in black, right? They thought there were actual men. And what was happening is these people were going downstairs in the basement and disappearing. It's the phenomenon. It's the phenomenon.

And so Dr. Turner had a case study where an abductee, a female abductee, this is heavy in a brother. The implications are like, what? But anyways, Dr. Clark Turner was working with this experiencer. And as always, when you do not comply with the phenomenon, right, you start to see it, flip the mask, like your friend, right? It's Yogi Bear or whatever, Flintstone. Yeah, Fred Flintstone. It starts to change. And when it realizes that you don't believe in the images, you move on to another program.

And now it's going to threaten. So in this particular case study, she did not go along with the program in her abduction. And she pushes back and says, I'm not going to do what I want you to do. And they said, okay, here's the problem. problem if you refuse will kill you and they pointed her in the direction of another her a copy of her laying on a table that will replace you with yes and nobody will know the difference because watch this it'll be us it's the phenomenon i have a what yeah the thought you're about to go into please don't lose it because i i'm loving this but what keeps them from just offing her anyways

to replace the with the clone then like why why why not just offer and then replace her rules i think they're following rules yeah and i think that and i've long said this in my lectures that they're playing by different roles because they're playing a different game with the archetypes are rules that we believe they follow that's the whole point of the diversification right i'm i'm nathaniel gillis nathaniel gillis plays by rules right tony merkle plays by rules they do that to make us believe they follow rules that they do not follow true hopefully they follow something else. And I believe that you're hinting on that to where there are reasons they didn't do that.

They won't let us know why. But there are protocols built within the program. All right. All right. So in the book Beyond Youaphos, I have it in my office. There was a man who had a near-death experience could have been engineered by the phenomenon. See where I'm going with this? To where in his testimony was that he was pulled out of his body by an intelligent,

in electricity, he shows up in the room with entities. Hi, Thomas. Do you know what happened to you? I think it's a car wreck. It is a car wreck, Thomas, right? Very clinical. We want you to know that your physicians do not have the ability to save your life. We do.

Right. We want you to become our profit. And if you become our profit, we'll put you back in your, body, right? And then we'll call upon you at the day of our Tuesday. You're going to do what we want you to do. So, yeah, there's simulates here and people are being threatened. And I'm going to say this, and I guess I'll summarize at the point with the following. Just because the abductee was returned doesn't really mean they made it back. Wow. Wow. You know, I just had a friend of mine Sean Tabett here in studio.

And we came out the episode probably two, three months ago. He wrote a book recently called the NDE conspiracy. He's a friend of mine. He's a publicist. I think he's a publicist. He works for Destiny Image, the publishing company that I'm writing for.

And his whole book is dissecting NDEs. And he has a podcast on it. He's quite well researched with NDE's and connected with many people who've had the experiences, who's researched it. And there is a real phenomenon happening with NDE's where, because I think the way it spawned in the conversation was,

I asked him, you know, why is it that people have NDE's that you can't control that part? You can't control the death part. So you died. I died. We both are back, but we have different stories as to what we experienced. And the whole idea of these, whatever they are, we'll call it the phenomenon. Highjacking people's death experience. And there's some kind of interception happening. And it's like, well, how is that possible? Well, we're talking about things like this entire time that have technology.

And we're not talking about technology that is maybe some cases, but not like, oh, there's a screw. That's not the technology we're talking about. We're talking about technology that is, from our perspective, it would look like sorcery. It's wild. But physical at the same time, you were talking about the one lady who was having, was it the lady who had the two husbands where, or somebody was, like, they were having like a sexual experience. Yeah. Errolson-inab, Arielle Masters, yeah, which are literature. It was like metallic technology that was doing the act once the veil came off.

And so it's like there is real technology being had here, but this phenomenon is even hijacking people's NDE experience so that when they come back, they're this profit of this whatever faith religion. A complex, right? Yeah, I'm the mediator. It's disturbing. Okay. It's disturbing, yes. But how do some people like Bledso then, because he kind of fits that bill, but he didn't have an NDE? Well, we don't know what he had.

I've read his book and the evidence suggests that his experiences didn't begin in 05 or whenever he was abducted. He had a... Began when his wife, when he found his wife dead at least because it told him that... It told him that it used that situation to draw him closer to the lady. Yes. And that's what's alleged. Let me go back to his... childhood, and it's in his book, UFO of God. And I want to make sure everyone understands this.

I think Chris Bloods is a decent dude. Me too. And I do believe he went through these experiences. Absolutely. I'm not questioning whether or not he, no, none of that. I'm questioning the phenomenon. That's it. Same.

But anyways, yeah, again, knowing how memory regression works and working with experiences through the years, the phenomenon would love to tell people that it just took him, you know, and healed it from Crohn's and all that. No, there was a time when he was at his church after church waiting for his mother to pick him up at his book. And he sees the face of an owl and he has time loss. And then fast forward and now the phenomenon, you ready for this? The phenomenon is telling him, you made an agreement with us. When did I make an agreement with you?

Right. That's always the argument, right? Well, you did it before you were born. Well, why don't I know about that? Because it's a lie. never happened, right? But you're now making the agreement based off a lie. Yes, yes.

I had three owls dive-bomb me out of my chicken coop recently. Is that something I should be concerned about? Or are they just going for my chickens? I have these baby chickens, and I'm also building this new chicken coop on a platform. and literally it's a whole saga of itself because every night these baby chickens don't get the fact they need to go into the old chicken coop and so the automatic door goes down,

they're still out, they're little tiny things still. And I have a family of five skunks that are roaming around the chicken coop at night. I've seen them when I was standing there's, oh, no, this night I step off this platform. It's crazy. I have two baby chickens in my hands.

I step off the platform. I roll my ankle. It's dark out. I roll my ankle. You had to be so mad. I'm like, oh, I'm in curse. I was like,

and I'm hobbling as there's five skunks walking by the fence and three owls dive bombing me. I'm like, what is going on here? What alternate universe did you just step into? But I did start thinking. I was like, because I had a,

what was the guy's name on the show? He studies the owls. He's the owl guy. Cleland. Cleland. Yeah, I had Cleland. Fascinating. And every time now that I see owls, I think of him like,

am I about to experience something, you know, because of the owl symbolism. But you're right. I mean, that is in his book. And there, because I didn't read the book. I listened to it. That's how I get through books faster. And when I was going through it, I remember hearing that and thinking, it goes all the way back.

There we go. It goes all the way back. And I would suggest something else that you think the phenomenon, just to kind of show you how it operates, you think the phenomenon would have abducted Michael Heiser and said, oh, by the way, I'm let's whore? No. He'd have probably baptized her. Halt her underwater long enough, right? I speak more languages than you. That's exactly right. Like, okay, you know what I mean? That's a haypex legammonon, Hathor, you know? That kind of thing. Why don't they? Why don't they? Why don't they? do that because, right? Because people that can see through the archetypes who have the intellectual capacity and the knowledge base to do so would go through them. Can't be authority in Mother Mary. You're lying to me. And then the matrix goes, what do I, what do I got to do? Not much. Why? Because we've always been told to test the spirits. We've never been told how.

And it doesn't want us to learn that. And so it's a part of the learning matrix and the program. Okay, go into that then. Yeah, yeah. Like, because, I mean, that comes up on the show and you're right that it's it's foggy it's foggy on the the how

and you know before you go into that I'll say I don't as far as I can remember have any recollection of being abducted I'm very very very hard-nosed

on things I've said it publicly but like honestly like you could be sitting, I'm not saying you would do this, but you could be sitting here at the table right now and present the most logical, convincing argument as to why Jesus Christ is not God, and I'm still going to look and be like, I don't care, I don't believe you. Because there's certain things I'm not going to waive off of, right? Right, right.

And so I often feel like that plays a role into why I don't fall victim to some of the things that I've heard so much over the last, I don't know, we're coming up on like 800 episodes, right? However, the phenomenon, I love calling it that, at least for this conversation, because it's defined, the phenomenon, as I have been hitting hard on certain things, has made itself present to me in different ways. But two times it came in dream. and the most recent time, I was in my basement. I forget why, but I was sleeping on the pull-out couch downstairs. Maybe I was sick or something. I usually segregate myself when I'm sick.

You watched a cartoon. You got set out of the... You're the one they did that, buddy. Exactly. She's like banished. Not in my house. But I'm sleeping. And anybody who listens to the show knows I often claim I don't remember

my dreams and I don't unless it's like significant. And I'm laying in the bed, like for real, like in real life, I'm laying the bed sleeping. And in the dream, I'm laying in the bed, the exact position, everything's the same in this dream. But there's this woman at the foot of the bed, beautiful gold, blonde hair. She was the manifestation of what I've seen the lady as online. And she walks across the bottom of the bed and starts coming up towards me. And she has this smile, grin on her face, seductive smile, grin. And I've seen it on her before in another dream.

and in my dream I did something that in this waking reality I did as well at the same time simultaneously both at the same time I just said in the name of Jesus done I didn't even get to the point I don't think

that I actually told it to leave I might have but it was like immediate as soon as I declare boom done experience over and that last dream that I had is when I connected to dots. I was like, this is right at the same time that I'm releasing certain episodes poking the dark. And I'm like, it's starting to, I felt like it was starting to look back at me.

You know what I mean? So I don't know how I got on that, but you mentioned about testing spirits. No. No, yeah. So it's actually, it's very simple. the primary thing is to not engage. You know, when I was growing up in my haunted house as a kid, it was pretty horrific.

So I would go into looping nightmares. And so some of what I'm going to tell you comes from my youth, but I would go into a nightmare where I was basically awake in it. And it was a rolling looping nightmare. You guys might want to edit this out, but it was somebody had a needy. in their arm and the other one had a gun in its mouth, their mouth, pull the trigger. And I'm thinking, I get to leave this nightmare.

I think, no, I'd go back into it. It would start from the beginning, the program in the beginning. And then I would wake up and there would be this pulsating cloud in the room, darker than night, darker than dark in the corner. And I could feel it, just feeding off of me. And so it was one of the most difficult times in my life. I mean, I was failing school, wasn't sleeping at night because I was afraid to go to sleep. So I would pass out at school, failing classes.

Nobody knew what was going on. And I had to build an immunity towards the phenomenon. And like, I've had murder cases I went into and investigated. But they had to cut up the carpet before I got there because of the amount of paranormal activity. And still, that was nothing compared to what I went through as an eight-year-old boy. But I realized that what the phenomenon was doing, this is another key pathology that's over and over again it would project fear upon me in in between me and the fear i would believe it and along with the fear would be nobody loves you

nathanio right you should just go do this and this and this to yourself and you you are you're a short guy and you know all this stuff you're not you can't i had ADHD too right ADHD is like you can't it was bad right and they But yeah, anyways, so it's like, yeah, you can't do any of this. You shouldn't be alive. Blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, man, I don't know why I feel. I'm crying in my room.

Like, man, I don't know why I feel this way. I agreed with it. And between the thought and the projection of fear and me agreeing with it, I accepted the fate. I strengthened its influence and power over me. and so in agreeing with it, I made a covenant with its intentions with me. Since then, I've realized,

this is powerful through trauma, I realize that it's okay to feel the fear. It's not okay to be afraid. Can I bounce off that? Yeah. In a different direction, but same idea behind it. Often people feel guilt in the temptation.

The temptation is not the sin. It's the giving into the temptation. It's the submission, right? To something else, to someone else. Right. Wow. To feel the fear without being afraid, it's okay to feel the terror. Don't let it terrorize you because that's what it wants.

Let me throw this nugget out there. Steve Merritt and I were having a conversation one day and he's like, you know, he goes, I was doing an investigation in the house. The reason I mentioned Steve Merritt because he's one of my heroes in the field. and I know a lot of researchers and I picked out like my faves Mount Rushmore. Yeah, I know like I trust their research

and so it's like, yeah. But he said that what the phenomenon was doing in one poltergeist case was it would knock something off the shelf and amplify the sound. Wow. Think about that. And I said, how do you know that? He said, because we knocked the same thing off the shelf.

The decimals were like way lower. He said, so the phenomenon was essentially saying, come here, engage, interface with me. When you interface with me, it'll strengthen my power. When it strengthens my power, I'll have more dominion over you. When I have them more dominion, right? It's the symbiotic, parasitic relationship of the phenomenon. This is why it's important not to engage them, not to interface with them, to realize that many of them, most of them are not angels, They're certainly not our guides.

They're not ghosts. There's something completely transcending that model. And that's where we are. And I think that conversations like these are the most expensive, right? They're the ones that will be preceded with nightmares and trauma. It's because we are digging up the old foundations and saying, listen, we thought we're way over there. No, no, we're still.

right where we always knew we were, Tony. We haven't left. Many archetypes have come and went. Many experiences have come and went. The altars remain the same. It's all at once. Jeez. Yeah, I mean, it's, you're talking about, like,

digging up the foundation, and it's just like, that's really what we're doing. It's all we're supposed to be doing, bud. And it's, it really shows the complexity of this, supernatural realm. I mean, it's layered, it's complex. Heiser really did a number on a lot of people for painting that picture. But I don't know if we'll ever get to the point where we actually understand it. Do you feel like you're heading, I mean, you're obviously heading in the right direction, whatever that is, but do you ever feel like you're actually going to come to

conclusion? So like, I figured it out. Or do you think it's going to be, it's just something that we need to strive to figure out and understand for our own defense purposes, but knowing that ultimately the strength and ability to defeat, not defeat, but combat isn't with us, but who is within us? Yes. So the philosophy I and others have is that because we know how fast the phenomenon evolves, and again, evolving cordon or awareness of it, right? we have to evolve twice as fast in our research. Good luck. Oh, I know.

It's not going to happen, but it's worth a shot. Yeah. Because what we've done now is program the phenomenon. How so? Okay. Now that we know the phenomenon uses predictable manifestations, we do know that if it is a predictable manifestation, it is the phenomenon. So again, back to episode 17, the guy.

Yeah, dear Aunt Edna. Well, of course you're during Edna. Case in point. Case in point. It would be, it would be Ted Rice in his abduction account with his grandmother. Okay. And the grandmother says, you know, I've only been into it with one man. That's my deceased husband.

He's dead now. You aren't him. Here comes a learning matrix in real time. Do do do. And he leaves, comes back as the husband. We would say, no. like he did. There's no way you're that. And if you want to appear as that, knock it down. You're the phenomenon. You're lying. And so the research that the most active in groundbreaking

research is being done now is when the phenomenon, again, we're dealing with programs, when the phenomenon manifests as a certain archetype will say, I don't believe that. You have no authority over me. Phenomenal switch. Remember, your friend, another one. What about this one? I don't believe you're that either. I want to go to the source in what we're doing is breaking down all the archetypes. And now it's like, okay, then we're not doing this like actively. What I'm saying, we're realizing the archetypes are not the proto intelligence.

These are just masks. And it is Jop Valet's theory. But what we're trying to do, and at least myself, is trying to look underneath the hood. Right? Because it's one thing for somebody to post a comment and say, well, we knew this. No, we didn't. We didn't. Right.

It was, you know, it's like a fault ending sentence. Well, it was this. I know it along. No, no, we didn't. We had faults. We had theories, right? Now what's happening is we're putting meat on the bones. And here in the next five years, you're going to see not only the sigils are going to come forward, you're going to see conversations with experiencers.

And that we need people from our perspective to be able to have a seat at the table to say, I know exactly what that is. what that is, right? Yeah. And it's not a sin to investigate it. We need people who are willing to put their life on the line. No, they're going to mean. To say, hey, listen, right? We've got to have discernment.

What is discernment? It's when your eyes adjust to the darkness and you see what's actually going on. This conversation is, well, it's a deep one for a Monday morning. Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. I feel like I feel like there's a lot of people who are going to listen to this and watch it and feel like they identify

with portions of it, right? And I think that from my seat knowing that there's going to be a lot of people that you know, maybe they're into the Bigfoot thing or maybe they're into the UFO thing or the haunted house thing

and they're all hearing this and they're connecting dots, but it doesn't really compute with everything that they thought before. I think this conversation is going to hopefully shift paradigms and allow people some kind of a blueprint on how all this can kind of fit together. With everything that you've been researching and going into,

I know you've been doing it a long time. I mean, even used to call it used to, you don't even work, but used to call yourself a demonologist. Like, you've been doing this so long. Have you seen that kind of fruit in this? Where you're seeing people, the mental consciousness shift towards away from singular thing, singular category,

to multiple. Because that's kind of what I've been talking about for a long time. When I talk to people, I'm like, yeah, your experience over here with this phenomenon, and this experience over here with this phenomenon, have similarities because the line blur. 100%. And I've always always,

always been a proponent of the following quote. If you want to study the tree, don't study its branches, study its roots. That's where we're at, my friend. And these are uncomfortable conversations. They're certainly, I mean, certainly expensive, but I think that's where we need to be sitting with the question. You know, I mean, I think that I'm hopefully trying to carry on the legacy of the Collins elite, of Missler, of Heiser, even in my own way. Because I stand on the shoulders of giants. I'm not saying I'm anywhere the equivalent of them, certainly not. But the research I am doing is now being not just verified, but vindicated by people who have no background in religious study. They just came at it from, hey, listen, I just want to, you know, when I have a UFOologist, look me in the face and say, hey, by the way, yeah, they're building altars in their homes too.

It was like, so what's actually going on? See, if the government did come forward and say, by the way, we're also performing rituals for these beings. Which they are. Which they are. Then it would be like, okay, then what are we doing here? Why are you ruling over me? And who's ruling over you? Those are the uncomfortable conversations.

But my point is that these are germane conversations because if anything, it's picking up the baton and moving the narrative forward. See, for the longest time, the phenomenon has dominated the question. And in dominating the question, it's dominated the answer. What we're starting to do now, my friend, is ask the right questions. Wow. Nathaniel Gillis, I appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you. I think you and I could probably do another two.

I don't know how long have we been going. I always asked that question, but I feel like it's been like two hours. But I also feel like my brain is short-circating. And I feel like maybe- It's a little early, huh? Yeah, but also, like, there's so much. where can people find your work? Like, where can they point?

I'm just on Instagram for now. And I'm very kind of a minimalist, to be honest with you. I might even start having somebody run my Instagram because I don't really like social media anymore. I'm more the guy that just stays in my library all day and then watches Frazier or something. I don't know. You know what I mean? We need to be chill out. Yeah, you know.

But that's really it. Other than that, my friend, I'm deeply honored and humbled to be with you. you today. It's been a dream come true. You know, I've been watching your show for a long time, and there was a day when I asked God, I was like, can you just make a connection? Like, I like this guy, you know, this is like, you know, because there's shows that want me on and I've been on, and I, I'm to the point now in my career where I'm not going to go to every conference, not, you know, I'm not going to go on every show. It's not that I have something personal grievance again. I just don't, I don't. It takes a lot of energy to get to it. Oh, my God,

It does, especially conferences, you know. It's like I'm more of a home body. But, you know, it's been an amazing time here in your area of the woods. And I've had some of the best fit of my life. And I'm glad to meet new friends. Yeah. And I enjoyed myself, brother. Thank you.

I hope this added meaning to your pilgrimage, more importantly. Big time. I mean, I guess before we get out of here, though, I mean, let's let's let you kind of have a final statement here. I mean, you come down here. we talked about a lot. I'm going to have to go back on this conversation and really dissect what was even covered at times because we went on a lot of different things. But if you could, you know, speak to the audience and just what would be something you would want the audience to walk away from this conversation, either an understanding or whatever? Well, you're not alone. You know, when I started talking to this Dr. Divinity who wrote an entire thesis on evil spirits and I realized that even people in the church, even people with PhDs do not understand or not even know what's, you know, the inner workings of the phenomenon.

They're hungry to. They're hurting as well. They're wanting answers. And if they're wanting answers, I know a lot of people are wanting them to. And so my whole goal in life has been to arm people with this information. Sometimes I'm bad at it. I ramble. I get off subject.

But I'm telling you, at the end of the day, the most rewarding part of the, about this is to add value to their pilgrimage because secretly I've met adults who are still little children being haunted in their houses. I didn't have anybody to help me. So that's why I'm here.