The Confessionals - 796: The Cube Portal | The Meadow Project

Episode Date: September 30, 2025

What if a hidden meadow in the wilderness held more than just trees and grass? In this episode, Tony, Joel, and Ward recount their expedition into a place where cubes of light appeared on thermal cameras, radios crackled with unexplainable interference, and perceptions bent in ways that felt supernatural. From bizarre spiritual attacks to face-melting visions, the crew wrestles with forces that seem intent on deceiving and dividing. Their story reveals a battle between the counterfeit and the true, where even a cube might point to the cross.Please pray for Tony's wife, Lindsay, as she battles breast cancer. Your prayers make a difference!If you’re able, consider helping the Merkel family with medical expenses by donating to Lindsay’s GoFundMe: https://gofund.me/b8f76890Become a member for ad-free listening, extra shows, and exclusive access to our social media app: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinThe Confessionals Social Network App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZTony's Recommended Reads: slingshotlibrary.comMy New YouTube ChannelMerkel IRL: @merkelIRLMy First Sermon: Unseen BattlesThe Meadow Project: Stream HereMerkel Media Apparel: merkmerch.comSPONSORSSIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsGHOSTBED: GhostBed.com/tonyCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/theconfessionals/Discord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelProduced by: @jack_theproducerOUTRO MUSICJoel Thomas - ImposterYouTube | Apple Music | Spotify

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Empecia to start your period of month in Shopify. coms bar records. Merkel Media. This was all circulating around the base that a giant had to kill, but no one was supposed to talk about it.

I saw three long, bony fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave, and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing at this giant. With a giant moves, he's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast. And spears, Dan, holds him up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face. They basically decapitated.

I feel something pulling at my leg. And I look over, and there are two small gray entities. And they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed. I reached my hand into this bush, and I touch me. air, couldn't breathe, and I couldn't move, because I know I'm seeing a monster. Welcome to the show, everybody listening to The Confessionals Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here. If you want to be on the show and share your experiences, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is Contact at theconfessionalspodcast.com. That's contact

at the confessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, theconfessionalspodcast.com. Hit the contact section, and you can reach me that way as well. Although it works for me, just get a hold of me. if you want more shows on a weekly basis, we got you covered. Become a member to the Confessionalspodcast.com slash join. $7 a month or $70 a year gets you access to all the content of the past and the future and the social media app that we had built where we house all the membership content. So you just become a member, you download the app off of Apple App Store or the Google Play Store. You log in with your credentials.

And not only do you get access to a social media network with your own profile and you can socialize with all the other people there, you actually get your extra content on that app as well. So go ahead and check it out if you're interested at the professionalspodcast.com slash join. All right, friends, today's a big day. The Meadow Project is here streaming on demand on Merkelfilms.com. That's right. Merkelfilms.com has a new documentary.

Me and the Boys went to the infamous Meadow, the undisclosed location, where anomalous things happen, including a queued portal. opened up on a thermal image, and team members of a research team walked into it and disappeared. We went to this location and investigated it ourselves for an entire week, and we came back with results to share with you. Go ahead, stream it now on demand, Merkelfilms.com, The Meadow Project. And since we're dropping it today on Merkelfilms.com, I brought the boys in studio. Joel and Ward, they were with me on this journey.

We talk about it all today on today's show. We break it down. I hope you guys enjoy this conversation. Let's get to it. All right, today we are here in studio with Joel Thomas and Ward Hiney. How are you guys doing? Great. Good, man.

I'm glad you're here. So you are my two besties. And it all started with us at Kentucky for Exhibition Dog Man. And I had no idea that I was going to walk away with such friendships after that week. But here we are. We've been running around the country together and documenting strange phenomena. and putting ourselves in environments that are known to have crazy things happen, and we let it unfold around us to see what happens. And we most recently did that at an undisclosed location that we're

not allowed to tell where it's at, but it's called the Meadow. And Trey Hudson came on the show for episode 617. I called it the Meadow Project, which is convenient because that's what their project is called, and that's what this film was called. But he came on the show and described this, this bizarre meadow in the middle of nowhere that has strange phenomena. And the one that, the story that just pops off the page as the story is the night that him and his team, on thermal, captured a cube opening up or lighting up the screen. And some of his team actually walked into the cube and disappeared off camera when they did that. that. We call it the Q'd portal. And it was a wild story in an episode. And we decided that

since Trey made the offer, we would go and investigate that land. And we called the documentary of the Meadow Project. And it is as of right now, as people are watching and listening to this, it's now available on Merkelfilms.com. And you can go and stream it on demand. And since it's available today, I thought, why not have you guys here in studio to talk about it? So here we are. Before we get into the chitter chatter of this thing, because there's things that didn't make the film that we want to talk about. There's things that did make the film that maybe we want to elaborate on. We're going to just have an open conversation about, you know, our thoughts on everything. But what I like to do is for you were to kind of take the reins on what people can expect moving forward as far as some bonus content, things like that.

Because this is your production. Like, I know people kind of get things confused and stuff, but Merkel Media, step. back from film production and we're now doing it through your company, Dark Holler Studios. And it's basically, it's like the same crew and everything, right? It's just, I don't have to deal with the bull crap. I just got tired of doing the production side of the business, you know? So you took it on and it's an awesome project and you actually have, I think you're doing better because you actually are coming out with some extra content and stuff that wasn't on the radar before. people know what they can be expecting as far as that goes. Thanks. Yeah. We're really excited about

there's almost two hours of unseen footage that's coming out with the film. I think there's one of the one sort of category of special feature is on these trips we go out usually at night in the daytime too and try to monitor using sort of ourselves as bio monitors because a lot of this stuff that we talk about is experienced as human beings. And so rather than explicitly try and capture scientific data, which is important, or things that we can point to as data points, the experience of the human in the place is really what an audience can connect with and how this strangeness all is encountered originally. If you think about every strange place or story that you've ever heard before anybody came in trying to ghost hunted or whatever. It was a

person who experienced that in a very direct way and then told the story. And so our attempts are to put ourselves there and experience these things. And so one of the categories of special features that we have is we've taken the basically raw. We've edited a little bit for time, but basically the raw footage and audio of our two investors. like heavy investigation nights that we were out there where we have lengthy record of it. And we're going to put those up for people to watch through themselves. Because one of the things that, you know, if we're in the field and we know something happened, like in this instance, we had instances where Tony's headlamp is blinking off and on in what

was otherwise unexplainable. Right new and freshly charged. Yeah. And possibly in a coded fashion, possibly not, is also radio would be transmitting bursts of static. In fact, one of the things that didn't make the film was there's a very odd episode of the second night where we had multiple radios tuned to the same frequency next to each other. And I think two of the radios were experiencing the same thing yours was. One of them wasn't. So, I don't know, make that make sense.

you know, if stuff is happening in that band, all three radio should be experiencing it. But anyway, there are things that we notice while we're there. But there are also, just in terms of man hours, we don't have the time to look at every frame of video. So if we don't notice in the field that something happened, it's entirely possible that listening back through things. I've had this happen many times, listening back once you get back, you'll hear EVP that wasn't there when you were there that you weren't aware of or you'll see things on camera that you weren't aware of.

And so one of the best ways that we thought to find that kind of thing is actually to put this up as a resource that people, if they're interested and they have the time, they can look through this footage themselves and see if there's anything that we missed. It's very, very possible that there's stuff in there that's odd and unexplainable that we just aren't aware of. So I'm really excited about that. It's honestly a new sort of investigation methodology that I'm excited to see what happens. It's like guerrilla investigating, you know, and just taking the public and saying, you do it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like one of the things we might anticipate is maybe someone will, you know, start a thread in the discord or something like

that to organize, you know, different anomalies. So that's one. So that's one. And so that's one. And one thing. That's one category of special future. The other is there is a gentleman who's worked with the Skinwalker Ranch people, the Blind Frog Ranch people, who does quantum imaging analysis. And I'm not capable of explaining this in detail. I can barely like get a handle on it. But I think in principle it operates. There's a famous experiment in quantum physics called the double slit experiment that basically

demonstrated that there is interference or noise in light channels, the source for which is not explainable in traditional physics. So what

Stephen Leah is the guy's name, his company is called Hiddenworld, hidden world.com. He's been incredibly gracious with his time and talent. The man's brilliant to even be able to come up

with this. And he would, by his own contention, his ability to do this is something that was revealed to him by God. But anyway, he's taken some of the imagery that we got that we shot separate from the film. It didn't end up making the film. There was a day when one of Trey Hudson's team members, they operate a paranormal research team called ASOG, the anomalous studies and observation group. one of their team members underwent a session in a Korin helmet, also called a God helmet, which is a device that floods the brain in different patterns with EMF in an attempt to simulate spiritual experience or sort of flood that part of the brain that has those experiences with electromagnetic frequencies.

while he was doing this he had a very profound for him experience of a few different detailed things that then after his session we went and shot an interview and he was talking about this he saw a number of i think he said four entities at different geometric shapes and this kind of thing we gave two shots of uh of shone in the god helmet during this session, while he's experiencing that, we gave those to Stephen, Mr. Leah, who applied his quantum imaging analysis to it and began turning up things when he started sending me emails of what he was seeing. He was, the stuff that he was calling out and showing in the imagery was stuff that he should not know

Sean was experiencing at the moment we had the video, stuff that does not exist in the imagery itself. which is, it's shocking when you start to see this. Some of the stuff involves what, in Stephen's words, are cranio-maxillofacial constructs, and it's a big word that just means stuff that appears to be faces. And he's seen this in many, many pieces of evidence from UAP phenomena, UFOs, ghost imagery, stuff like that. And it's shocking.

He started to see at one point a black cube, a void in the quantum noise that his imaging is reading, directly toward where the meadow is. So you referenced the cube portal that's kind of the big story that everyone sort of remembers from Trey's episode here. And we're looking, from the camera's perspective, we have Sean. on one side, and then we have what we all referred to that week is the doorway to the meadow in the background. And in the pathway to the meadow, like in that doorway, the quantum imagery is just blank, it's a void. So, and he didn't know that. Sean in his interview later also describes having seen during his like vision in the god helmet, these entities kind of inviting him

toward this black cube at the end of a hallway made of light, which Stephen had not heard the interview at that point. So he's coming back with things that are corroborating things he doesn't know about. And just so people know, the pictures will be a part of the footage. So you'll see what he was able to pull with quantum imaging. And it's some of the wildest stuff I've ever seen and the fact that he had no prior knowledge to what was actually going on because to him he's just seeing what looks like a flood of entities going through one side of his head filling up here and then spilling out on this side of his head so you see this and then they're falling out into these cubes that are in the forest so this is seen in quantum imaging again

he had no idea. He just took the picture and put it through quantum imaging to then see this. He's like, I don't know what's going on with this guy. And then we explained to him. He's like, he lost his mind.

He's like, well, he thought he did. He's like, I feel like these things are just like flooding him from one side, which they literally, that's how the god-homean works. Didn't he say something like, what you guys are doing this, poor man? Yeah. So he was like,

we had nothing to do with it. Nothing to do with it. We had nothing to do with it. This was a son. entire blame for what he was doing to his own teammate.

Right, right. Yeah, in the initial quantum runs that Stephen did, he started to identify it looks like, it's very strange,

but it looks as if one side of Sean's head is sort of like pulsating very quickly, very rapidly, as if something's being pumped into it.

And then it also shows sort of clouds of, I guess, energy around the nodes that are doing the God Helmett stuff that are sending the EMF signal. So he's seeing that, he's seeing the pulsating of his head, and then there are

these cranio-maxillofacial constructs, these faces that are appearing to sort of like channel through his head. And, you know, Stephen was struck by this and by sort of the, it is kind of disturbing the nature of it. And then

I think it wasn't until we were actually on a call with him, that we, like, Trey explained that, yes, this was a thing that we did, that they did by intention. And Stephen was like, you did this on purpose. I don't know, maybe you didn't. I missed it. But can we, because you said several times now the God helmet, what is the God helmet? How does that operate? Okay. So again, this is a little more capable of this than I am the quantum imaging thing. But basically, it's an experimental helmet that was, developed, I think by a man named Corrin. I could be wrong about that. Trey would know. But it was developed in order to simulate or stimulate spiritual or religious experience. Or I guess you might say, liminal experience. It's also supposed to bring both hemispheres of the brain together

because the thought pattern is that's how our brains worked in early man years. Yes, that both hemispheres work together, that over time we've had that separation. And so by bringing them together, then you're now in tune with the spiritual world. At least that's the thought pattern behind the God helmet. Yeah, it's two phases. So the initial phase does that. It's supposed to synchronize the hemispheres of the brain, so they're both working together. And then the second phase of it floods, I believe, the amygdala with EMF energy so that you're able to have this kind of experience. And you could... It's the left amygdala. amygdala, sorry.

And that's where it's being pumped. So when you're looking at the picture, and that's going to be on the right when you're looking at it, because obviously it's on the left coming through his left side. That's where it's being pumped. And that's where he's losing it. He's like, what's going on with this guy? Where are you doing?

Because you can just see these faces being dumped into his head. You can see them in the head and then just spilling out all out of his head on the right side. So it's really wild to see it from a perspective of this quantum imaging where, man, what are you doing to somebody when you're putting that on? Talk about all the little cubes that were popping up on the imaging. And he was even, when he was with us showing us all this, he was even finding more of these, like, he's like, there's another cube. There's another cube. And like, well, we can, if you just walk about half a mile that way, you'll find a really big cube

that seems to manifest. It was pretty wild. It's seeing that whole thing. So people are going to actually have access to looking at that themselves? Yeah, we'll have a selection. It's difficult because there are so many things, actually, that Stephen turned up. But, yeah, we're going to have sort of the most striking ones available in the sort of the last half of that special feature about Sean's God Helmut experience.

I think it's really striking, like we have an experiential element where Sean's telling us what he experienced, and then we're able to, by a third party that didn't know that, corroborate what he was experiencing in a way that's pretty dramatic, having multiple witnesses to something,

that otherwise you would just have to take Sean's word for it. So, yeah, I think that's pretty, Pretty exciting. And the work that Stephen is doing, I think, is ongoing. He turned up a number of things. Tray had met him initially after our trip. And he had done some stuff with satellite imagery over Tray's house. That was crazy. He did a number of pretty crazy things. But yeah, some of it will be in the special feature. How will people be able to access that? I know the answers, but I'll let you answer. You should probably Yes. On the same When it streams

When you buy the VOD You'll get access to it They'll have access to it there Okay Just click some buttons When you think about it You're getting an hour and a half movie Plus two hours of extra footage

Yeah It's pretty great Yeah I don't think Anybody's done This kind of thing before And it's something I think we want to take forward. There is so much to look through when we come back from these trips that it's just invariably things can get missed.

Yeah. I mean, so for example, somebody who's near and dear to our heart, Scott Carpenter, his son, Travis, actually recently started up the YouTube channel again. So Scott's old channel is pretty active right now with Scott's clips and stuff. His son has been, I think, doing a great job with it, Travis. But I think it was, I think Travis said that his, or maybe his dad told me, I can't remember, but it was like, I mean, we're talking like terabytes of footage that has never been released because there's not enough time. So his dad, what he would do is go walk around, collect all the footage just by hiking around, and he would dump it and then not touch it because he has to go mow the lawn or something. And then he goes out for another hike, does it the same thing, and it compounds. and I mean, we're talking thousands of hours of footage that the world has never seen on the carpenter side of things

that hopefully starts getting released on the YouTube channel. And like I told Travis, I said, similar to what we're doing here, you don't need to do anything. If you just release it to the world, they'll do it for you. And so hopefully people enjoy it. Now, once again, they can go and check it out right now. The Metal Project is now available in streaming on demand at Merkelfilms.com. We had some pretty, we had some extremes that week. Yeah.

And I, I'm not exactly sure even where to start with it. Because there was, there was paranormal stuff, supernatural. I hate the word paranormal anymore because I just, my lenses have changed so much. There were supernatural things that were happening so much that week around us. And then there was, like, like, what, Joel had saw when we were having the meeting in that circle. But then there was even like, not a ritual circle, by the way.

Yeah, no, yeah. Thanks for clarifying. It wasn't a ritual circle. I know everybody's just looking for that angle. Like, I knew it. I knew it was involved. Now my hood's up. Okay.

We got the hood up. You know, let's cover that one eye for the, for, to really get people mad. So, but there was. A circle of people talking. Yeah, we were having a debrief before we went out into the meadow. So like, like, like, I think we were actually in a meeting. where they were saying that there was a cult in the area that was responsible for people's deaths and stuff. We weren't the cult.

So, but I'll start off with this. And I hadn't planned on talking about this, but I'm going to talk about it because I think it's good to be authentic. So I had a really rough week that week, a really rough week. And I do, I don't even think I thought of it this way when it was happening or even shortly after everything kind of wound, kind of came in for a landing with my emotional scale. but I do look back of that and I think that was a very heavy spiritual attack on me to prevent me from operating in the moment the way I was supposed to be. And I can't even remember exactly everything about it. I don't want to go into all the details.

But I can say what people see in the documentary, I was dying inside a lot of that. And there was just a lot of attacks mentally that I was going through. and you guys witnessed, I mean, like, you, like, I literally secluded myself for a good majority of that week where I just hung out of my truck, didn't talk to people. And I, and I hated it because I was like, I feel like I'm one of these dorks that, you know, want to make drama. And it's just like, I'm trying to get attention to me and stuff. But like, I was like, I was, like, there was like these scenarios being conjured up in my head that made me actually hate my own friends and teammates. You know, like everybody there, I couldn't stand being around. And I just wanted to be

left alone. I didn't want to be there. And I'm just really glad that I confronted it when I did so that we could actually end on a good note that way because it was like everybody came to me at some point and like poke the bush a little bit and like, hey, what's going on? You know, and I'm like, I'm fine. You know, but like, and I'll tell the people of the scene, it opens up, the documentary opens up, or Joel comes walking through the me, and I think Jack were setting up, camp for that night. And you see Joel come across. Like, I saw it. You know? And in that moment, I think I had to say it on the documentary how I was like, you know, but it was more than just like me saying, oh man, Joel got to see something and I didn't. And stuff. I was already in a mindset that I

wanted to just like burn the house down, right? And what you don't see on the documentary is after that scene ends and you go into the documentary, if you ask the opening scene, um, like, I pull you two aside and like, we need to talk. And I just laid out my heart and how I was feeling and you guys squashed it. And it like,

it's funny that like when you're going through a spiritual attack, the teeth that it has is because you won't, you keep it in the dark. You know, I mean, like as soon as you pull back the curtain on it and you say, this is what's going on, this is what's bothering me,

whatever's having, whether it's, you know, with a group or personally or your family, whatever, like, it loses its power. And that's what I literally felt in that moment. When I, like, confessed what was going on inside of me to you guys, it lost its teeth. And then I just had to bear with the feeling of hopefully I didn't do any damage to a relationship long term from this week, which I didn't. But like, it was a huge growing experience for us as a team, but I don't think it was an accident that it happened then. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I think another thing. that it just occurred to me that your experience plays into this. The sort of one of the themes of the strange things that happened that week were people's perceptions. Like, what do you see? And I think that, you know, there were lots of instances where perceptions were just colored enough, just enough to disrupt, just enough to make it difficult. And I, you know, your experience is one of those, but I think that might be one too. Interesting. You think like one of the first things that happened while we were there is Joel had an experience where we're standing around talking and you perceived several people's faces to be like drooping or I don't forget how you described it.

So I'm sitting there or standing next to Tony and we're kind of an assert. and we're talking. We're getting ready to go out for the first time. This is the first time we're going on to the meadow. And it's 10 a.m., something like that. Suns up. Wasn't cloudy, anything like that. So we're not talking about at night. And I just remember looking around, and I felt uneasy. And I noticed Jack's face first. And he looked like he was crying to start with, but then it looked like his face was changing. So I'm thinking, man, maybe I need some water or something. you know, so I drank some water. And you even in that moment called Jack out on it across the circuit. You looked at Jaggingly, Jack. You okay? I did. And he said, yeah, man, I'm fine.

But in that moment, even when he said he was fine, his face was like melting almost, which is really weird to think about. And then I look down the line of people in the circle and you were okay. Caleb was not. Caleb's face was all melting. And I can't remember the other two now because. I believe they were part of the ASOC team. But it was sporadic.

But it was just four people out of the group of like eight to ten or whatever that was in the group getting ready to go out there. So I'm thinking there's no way. Because I'm going to think rationally first that, okay, maybe I'm just seeing this. Maybe it's, you know, whatever. But I mentioned it to you. I was like, man, I'm not feeling too great. I just saw people's faces melting. And I was like, you remember that whole demon face syndrome thing?

I just pulled it up. I just pulled it up. that was on all of the news networks, and they were basically putting out there that if you were to see somebody's face change into something demonic, it's actually something we can help you out with to get you on these pills. So obviously, we think that that was kind of a setup to push people more towards a medical thing than actually a spiritual thing. Yeah, I mean, they're gearing up for the supernatural to spill over into the natural, and they

have a remedy for that. Don't worry. Correct. So I'm seeing this and we're walking. And by the time we get down to the meadow, we actually get in the meadow. I remember you said, you should probably talk about this, which I do on the film. I talk about it. But that's what really kicked it off for me. So we were talking about perceptions. A lot of mine was visual perception. Everything that was manipulated that I saw or thought I saw was all manipulated. And we'll get to the part later about what I thought I saw and how after reviewing everything that was being manipulated, I think there was also some manipulation there initially. Yeah. And you're not the first person to experience that. There's a filmmaker Greg Ogles, who's gone out with Asaga number of times

and had a similar experience that Trey was able to reference when you brought it up. So it's a good thing that we mentioned it. I mean, that's one of the things about taking this experiential approach to these things is you have to say something and bring something forward when you experience it because you are the sensor. It's not like there's an EMF meter that's going to tell you that Joel's experiencing seeing this. What did you describe it earlier? Like a biological meter or something like that? Biosensors. Biosensors. Yeah. One of the things they used in Skinwalker Ranch during the the government program out there was they would put the dogs and pens

out there and use them as biosensors and I think that's a similar reference for one of our approaches to this. I mean, we'll document things where we can. Obviously, we get a lot of strange audio things. We've gotten a couple strange video things. But the experience is what people

connect with, I feel like. Yeah. Yeah, so I think that a lot of the phenomena there that week that we experienced were had to do with that question of watching, being watched, and what you perceive. Another weird thing that didn't take on as much significance, you'll see it referenced in the film, but didn't take on as much significance until we had Stephen start to do his work where with different images from the meadow where he's turned up these faces is that, We were using Sony A7S4s, I believe, or S3s. I don't know. They were Joe's cameras, but they have a feature that face detect auto focus, where they will pick up faces in the image and shift the focus of the lens to meet where the faces are.

These are very dependable cameras. I've used them quite a lot. They don't do what they did at the meadow. And what they did at the meadow was that they would occasionally jump, from a very prominent face, someone's actual face. So if I'm shooting Tony across the room,

we would be locked in focus. This thing's tracking. If Tony gets closer or further away, it reads his face and changes focus. Instead of that, it would jump to like foliage or the sky or something where there is no face

that we can see. And the camera would act as if there's a face there that it's detecting. This doesn't, I mean, this, in the, early days of this technology. It happened a lot. I haven't seen it happen with these cameras.

And what makes that interesting, it also plays into that theme of perception, watching, being watched. Later, when Stephen started to analyze some of the footage, there was, he took the thermal of the creature that's sort of slinking along the grounds that Trey got. He did some work with that and turned up a number of faces. He did the satellite imagery over Trey's house also had several of these cranio-maxillofacial constructs, several of these face archetypes that exhibited. And I think it's not the case that this happens everywhere. Like you give him anything and it comes up with faces. It doesn't.

And I think like that just is another outside corroboration. Stephen had not watched any of this, didn't know that the cameras were having that behavior picking up faces where there shouldn't be. And yet his quantum imaging is showing faces where they shouldn't be. All right. Let's take a second to talk about our sponsor today. Ghostbed. When the lights go out, you should not have to wonder if your mattress is working against you. With Ghostbed, you can rest easy. Ghostbed is a family-run company backed by decades of mattress making expertise. Every ghost bed mattress is built with premium material that deliver lasting comfort and support. You'll find proof.

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details. You know, one thing that happened out in the middle at night that I'm thinking about now, it didn't make it in the film, but there's a natural explanation for it, apparently, that I didn't know about. I would like to go into it just because I imagine this might be a case for other people too. Wherever they're investigating the world, they might experience this and think it's a, it's strange. I thought it was strange. I still think it's strange, even though there might be an explanation for it. But that night we were sitting in a circle out in the back corner of that field, and we brought chairs, and we set them up in a circle so we were facing with our backs towards each other. So we were kind of watching the wood lines. And I don't know who it was.

but somebody started looking up in the sky and there was like this ring forming around the moon, right? Like, what was the explanation of that? Yeah, so it's called, it's called a witch's ring because we're not the first fools to look up at it and think it was weird. But yeah, it's apparently

caused by refraction in the atmosphere from the moon the same way if you had like, I think the phenomenon's called lens halation, where you have light hitting the lens and something in the lens is picking up on it and being caught

the sensor. I think it's a similar thing. The thing that through us was that it seemed like one, we didn't know about that phenomenon, so it did seem odd enough, but it also seemed like the clouds were going around.

Were, yeah, like sort of redirecting around this ring. And it was, it's one of, when we do these things, there's stuff that's like, it's weird enough on review, for me to think like maybe there was something weird there.

Like the cloud behavior seems strange to me. But as soon as you put that out there as like, this is a piece of evidence, it's like, oh, let me Google that. No, it's a witch's ring. This is easily explainable. So, yeah, we didn't put that in the film, but it was a little odd.

You'll probably actually see that in the, one of those raw footage, the second night investigation piece. So people can look at it if they like. Yeah. It was a strange thing, but it wasn't, it didn't happen too far away from where, I think it was like, because there's like the, there's like the meadow, but then there's like these sub meadows that branch off. And I feel like there was, it wasn't too far away from there where Trey's one teammate, like, teleported. Yeah.

And I had, I had that in my mind when we were sitting there. And do you remember what happened after it on the way back? do you remember this? No. So on the way back. The temperature changes? Yes. Yeah.

We walked through several pockets. Oh, yes. Pockets. Yeah. So, yeah, walking through pockets where all of a sudden it would get really cold and then you walk through a pocket, it would get really hot. Yeah. And it was really weird.

And it made us think about the tubes and portals being there that you're just walking through something that you're not really sure what you're walking through. Right. Yeah. And it felt like sort of like walking across a heater vent. Like it seemed like. It seemed like the air was moving, too, like and up. Right.

It's like anybody who's gone into a store during the wintertime, you have to heat blow on on you as you go in. That's the difference that it felt like. I don't remember a feeling like it blowing, but the temperature change that you feel when you walk in those doors is kind of how it felt. Yeah. And the cubes, both the one that they have on, they have thermal imagery of.

And it's difficult to make out. Like they caught it as it's going away. way the cube itself is difficult to make out but what's for sure is that the thermal signatures of the team disappear into that area and another element of that is

earlier in that evening Darrell another of the ASOG team the evening that the big cube appears had on his thermal seen another cube manifest much smaller but what's interesting is both of those are thermal that's where the cube shows up

It's not that they could see it with their naked eye or anything. But that means that those cubes are either cold or hot, right? And as we're walking through this meadow, we keep hitting these weird pockets of, you know, of heat shooting up. It made us think of like, is this characterized by some kind of bubbling around the meadow? Or, I mean, the wilder ideas that we started to get toward the end. is there something under this? Yeah.

But yeah. Can I, before we get off, because I don't know if you were going to go off the queue, but I do want to clarify because I don't want people to miss this, because I think, and I think it's good. When you watch the documentary and you hear these stories, your skepticism kicks in. You're like, yeah, but that could be explained by this, that or the other. And I know for a fact there will be people.

if they don't hear this, they don't catch on to it, they're going to say, the guys disappeared because they walked into the tree line and stood behind a tree or they walked behind a tree and they disappeared.

The cube was not in the tree line. It was out in the meadow. The guys never actually entered into the tree line before they disappeared. Am I correct in saying that? Right. And what's more than that is

is they tried to reenact it later. And they tried to see, if walking into the tree line, walking behind the trees and the brush, would hide you from the thermals, and it doesn't. Also, it was November, so there weren't any... There's no foliage at all. So when they walked into the tree line, it definitely wouldn't have obscured anything. But they did walk us to the exact spot where they saw the cube, and we walked right over it. So we walked right over the grass there.

It was a little muddy when we got out there the first time. Also, I feel like this has to be stated too. What you see on the documentary is not what they saw initially. Yep. Because the thermal they first saw this on didn't record. Is that right? Yeah. So I think one person sees it on a lower quality thermal,

calls Kristen's attention to it, who turns much like a commercial grade, nice, FLIR unit onto it, sees it as it's disappearing. So it's gone away, and then I think she hits record as it's going away. So we have thermal of it disappearing, basically, of it dissipating. And then it starts to come back, and they walk the team into it, and they have two thermal signatures disappear into it.

And those two team members that entered it, both, I believe within a couple years of that event, both had passed, both had died. And they reported that their time inside of that when they had disappeared, that the stars were blacked out. It felt cold. The environment changed. Yep. And right. The environment on their way in, it was very easy flat ground.

When they decided to leave after a few seconds and turned around and came back, it was not so easy. Which also, also what is shown on the footage, because they gave. us a lot of footage that they've never shown anybody ever. All the stories they've told for the past five, six, seven, eight years is all shown in this documentary, which is really cool that they let us do this. But the cube, when they come out of the cube, the flare goes to the right and there are two, what seems to be smaller people, around three, four feet tall, maybe, round three feet tall. They look like small beings watching them as they come out. And you can see this on the film. It's super weird.

And you'll hear, Kristen, I believe, what is that over there? Because it's two thermal images that are just popping up, and it's not any of the team members. Nobody there. It's just, you can tell because she's swinging it, and there's nothing there. And she comes back over and swings back, and then they're there. But they're a lot smaller, and you can see the juxtaposition between the two members that come out, and then those two, what almost looks like they split apart into two at one point, it's really wild looking. So what's interesting about this whole cube popping up on thermal is when this happened for them,

there was certain information that wasn't publicly available like now. So there is, so I have, I remember I called you Ward and I was talking to you about the whole storm in Mark 4 with Christ. And you said, that's really interesting. It would be cool if there was, if you could find biblical press. of like supernatural like Satan using weather or two and I have but by the way so just so you know but underneath the same idea of like having a thought or having experience and seeing if you can find other precedent for that thing happening the Immaculate Constellation Document that came out during UFO disclosure it's in it's anybody can go download this document

in the document I can't tell you what page or whatever they talk about being able to see UFOs in the sky using thermal imaging. I think it's thermal imaging or maybe Fleer. Is it the same thing? It's not the same thing. Okay. But like supposedly if this is me speaking out loud now, if you're driving down the highway on a sunny day and you see a weird cloud formation

and if you had a thermal next to you and you look through the thermal at that weird cloud, formation, just maybe you might see something that you can't see with your naked eye. And that's in the Immaculate Constellation document. That this is something you can actually do. You can actually use technology to see something that you can't see with your naked eye. Yeah. So that was, that's information that has come out now that wasn't available back when they had this experience in the meadow. And so I just, I find it interesting that as time goes on, we are being given piece-mealed information that just confirms what a lot of people for decades have been experiencing and claiming. And they've been just, oh, you're crazy. You're making this up. Or it's Parodolia.

And the government's now coming out. I'm like, actually, we've been starting this for a while. And it's kind of legit, you know. So, I mean, not that I, daddy government is truthful on everything. And even with that, you've got to consider the possibilities of SIOP. So it's not beyond the realm of possibility that daddy government is trying to create an absolute macro siop. And so they're going into these different communities, seeing what they're talking about and stuff. And let's plug this in here. And if we say it, then all of this on these guys who are saying they're experiencing this will flock to it. And now we're in control of the narrative.

She's the narrative. You know? And so there's definitely that aspect of it. But at the end of the day, like, you can't, like, I don't think there is any 100% sure aspect to this kind of stuff. It's, it bobs and weaves. And the more information that comes out through people's own research and experiences to government coming out with information, it's at some point, you just got to take it for what it is and draw your own conclusions. But I think the most important thing for people to understand, and I don't think everybody's

there, is that at the end of the end of the end of the end of the end of the. the day, you have to be comfortable with not actually having 100% of the information and actually understand that what you think in the moment of today may not be right. And if you get that information later on, you just got to be like, oh, I was wrong on that. But like, people get married to what they think about so much that it's just like when new information comes along, they're like, no, can't, you know? So I feel like the meadow offers a lot of that. Is there's so much to unpack with it, phenomena. But one of the things that they said they don't get a whole lot of is, I think, cryptids or was it

Bigfoot? Was it cryptids or Bigfoot? I think cryptids in general. Yeah. And I guess that's where we kind of turn in this conversation. Because, like, this was like, like I said earlier, we had such a growing experience on this trip, right? And talk about highs and lows with emotions.

I like there's so many aspects of what we're about to start talking about because for for a period of time when this happened I was like I don't know if we're all going to be friends after this like I really I was like I don't know how we rebound from this like you know because it was just so it was like you get so clouded with your emotions that you can't even see the truth of the situation right yeah So I don't know who wants to kind of start off that I kind of threw it out there and all this you guys kind of.

I'll say just as an observation that I've seen with, say, paranormal teams or people that are involved in this kind of thing, is that if you are not radically transparent with each other and if you don't essentially trust the people that are with you, that will be exacerbated and leveraged to cause enmity and to destroy the work that you're doing. And I think one of the things that was, I was very impressed with us for being transparent, both the episode that you were talking about and when you had seen that thing is being, you know, we're all being committed to seeking the truth of a matter as far as it can be known and with being transparent with each other about how we're being affected. The ego and stuff, you can probably think of a bajillion examples

of egos being used to separate, breakup. People hating each other in the paranormal community is like ubiquitous. It's so, and from the outside, I mean, it seems so petty and ludicrous, but you can watch it happen. So, yeah, this episode in particular, I think I was very glad with how it worked out. Yeah, it was a really crazy experience for me.

Definitely something I've never experienced before. And just to preface it with, I've grown up in the woods my whole life. lived on the side of a mountain, climbed mountains, heard cryptids, my whole life. I hadn't seen any when I was younger, but we talked about them all the time. People saw them. My parents were always very open to the weird,

and my dad from his background knew the supernatural existed. We also knew that there were a lot of conspiracies out there, and, you know, that's something that very early in my childhood, five, six years old, my family told me to challenge things, challenge the narrative. Don't just feed into what everybody's telling you. You know, obviously from an ethical standpoint, and we're not trying to push fear.

But from that standpoint, always challenge, you know, what's the mainstream pushing with anything. And just prefaceing that, that I've grown up in the woods my whole life. So I feel pretty... And not like the woods outside New York City. We're talking to North Georgia. North Georgia Mountains.

Appalachian Mountains. I could walk out my door and climb the Appalachian Mountains. I used to all the time. So I'm very comfortable in the woods. So I pride myself a little bit and being able to pick things out when I'm in the woods to not be fooled or tricked by something that might be paradolia or might be something that's not what it seems. So this particular day, it might have been day three. I think something around that time. I was out by myself like I am a lot of times. I had the, Scott Carpenter method attached to my shoulder. And for people don't understand what that is, when Scott Carpenter used to go out, he would have a camera on a gimbal, a GoPro, and it would be pointing backwards because his thought pattern was, as he walked past things,

they would pop out and look. And he caught a lot of things popping out and looking. Matter of fact, he caught a portal with what looked like a gray alien walking through it that I've freaking seen. It's real. I think people would probably go to L.A. Marzuli's YouTube channel and dig around there.

I know he has the footage. So if anybody, because I've referenced it before, So I'll just leave it there. But yeah, look at, look at Elie Moore's. It's wild. And I know that Scott's son showed us from his own personal. So that was pretty wild to see.

So we've been doing this. And it's worth. We've got some really cool stuff. And I can't wait until the Melanhead's project comes out because we've got probably the hottest footage we've caught of anything. The best. It's super wild. And it was using the method of Scott Carpenter. So I'm out there doing Scott Carpenter's method. I'm in this weird spot that I get into the woods off the back end of the meadow where we saw the weird witching.

Witching or whatever. Right. So I get back there. And as soon as I get back there, it gets real quiet. I know something doesn't feel quite right. My gimbal just goes haywire. You'll actually see that on the film. And I'm kind of like, what is going on here?

And I had to turn it back on. As a matter of fact, as I was walking through the meadow, I had to turn it back on and off several times. Yeah, but the weird thing with it when it spun it. out like that is that unit doesn't do that. Like when you powered on it doesn't flip around like that and it just freaked out like. Right. So and there was a branch that had just shot

out of a tree and it wasn't like it fell out of a tree or you know like it broke and it just fell down. It was just like it was almost like something through it down right around that time. So I go up and I finally get up to the ridge and I climb the ridge. I'm going back and I find this weird trail that goes all the way back. I'm going through there and I stopped to take a little break and I look down and it appears to be something large sitting on the log with an ape like head.

And at first, I'm thinking, no way. You know what I be? Like we go out. You're looking for this all the time. I'm like, there's no way. I'm seeing this, right? So I'm looking at it. So, and you'll see it on camera, I turn backwards so I can catch it on camera. So, because the GoPro's pointing backwards, so I lean down and try to catch it. And so my thought pattern is, because I even whooped at it, I believe, to try to get it to move. And it didn't move. And it looked real furry. It just looked like that dark fur. And man, at that point, I'm like, I don't know. But it was way far down there. And at that point, it was a little foggy, like not, where that was at, but kind of down from it. So it's a weird time of day. I maybe could have gone

down there, but I just didn't feel comfortable at the time. And I was real tired. So I was like, I'm going to go back down here. And when I come back, if it's gone, I know I saw something. And we can check the footage because I'm like, well, I got it on camera. So we can zoom in. We can try to figure out what's going on here. So I come back and there's nothing there. So at this point, I'm kind of, wait, maybe, right? So as I'm walking, I'm thinking, I think I saw something. I think it didn't move because I woke because it froze and was like, I'm not going to move.

I'm going to wait until it's out of my line of sight. And then I'm going to get out of here. At that point, I come all the way down the ridge. I come into the me. That's when I've seen you guys and you'll see me come out. And I saw it. I saw it. And Tony is not happy at the time.

But after that. Mad. But after that, Tony is hyping me up. So it was Ward. Because we're like, you might have saw it, man. And I'm like, because at this point, we're not even calling it big foot. We're just saying it because I don't even want to go there yet. So we decide at night to go back out there.

Now, you'll see this on camera some weird sounds that are going on that we're catching, whistling. The radio and the headlamp thing. All kind of crazy stuff on the way up there. So we get up there and we go to what we think is the log. We actually climb down there. And it looks like there are some sizable footprints down there. We can't tell. It's kind of dark, but we're testing it out.

At this point, it's, there's nothing on the log, man. It's not what we think it is. At this point, Tony's like, We were sitting on the log. I know. Tony says, face it, man, you saw it. So at this point, I've committed, I mean, I saw Bigfoot. And 8-ped, furry, big, I'm thinking.

And we got it on footage. Footage. Yeah. So at this point, we haven't checked the footage yet. I had. Oh, you had. I think, I can't remember. I think you did in the morning.

I know I showed you guys in the morning. think I had looked at it. Okay. Because I was trying to find that log. Right. I think I had looked at it and it looks like a silhouette of the classic like conical Sasquatch head kind of looking off down to the right. We don't have to left at that point. We're like, we got it. We're done. I know. I know. It's time to retire. And at that point, you know, I'm really feeling it. I'm like, man, I'm, I think I saw this thing. So, or I'm committed now. I saw it. Yeah. So. We're really excited. We're like, we got the footage. We're going to show everybody.

We're going to show the world, Big Flood. And then the next morning, you show us it. And you'll see this on camera when we walk up. I mean, it looks like it. It looks so good. And I'm freaking out at this point. So then Tony, we're not Tony, but Ward, interjects into the conversation.

He's like, maybe we should go back there. And he's like, I can find this fern that the camera's in front of. and we can pinpoint exactly where it's at. We can film exactly where this is at. And that way we leave here with no doubt. We're not trying to pull a ruse on anybody. We're not trying to do anything. And I'm really honest with you.

I did not want to go back. There's no way I wanted to go back because, man, I just had my experience. I saw freaking Bigfoot. I don't want to, like, ruin that or have an opportunity to run that. Which we've talked you into. Right, right, right.

Because I wasn't even committing until finally it's like, you saw it, man. admit it. Yeah, it's like, it's like, and it was like, um, you were so reserved with the whole, I saw it. I didn't, and we're like, big foot, big foot. And like, like 24 hours, 36 hours later, you're like, okay, big foot, because we have all this, right? And it's like, we built you up because we see the footage. We're like, you saw it, bro. But not only that. But then we, we yank that carpet out from underneath you. And that's how I felt. That's how I felt. And it's like I felt like we built him up. And then we say, now we're going to take the carpet out from underneath you

and say, now go prove it. You know? Right. Well, we thought that you didn't, you weren't saying that until we thought we had been to the log and did nothing there. Right. And we walked around, tried to find anything else that might look like that shape. It couldn't find it. And then that, I think later that, we got back at like, it was super early in the morning. It was like 4 a.m. we got back. And looked at the footage again. And I was like, what I was thinking was, don't know if that log we were at is the log. I'm just not certain. Right. He's thinking that. Also, side note was it was tailor made for me because I've always had this idea of like running into

Bigfoot and it just being like peaceful Bigfoot looking out across just relaxing and it was that it was just that thing for me was exactly what I wanted in his mind's eye I looked back and like hey Joel it's like it was a picture perfect

situation for you picture perfect and so Ward brings up well maybe we should go back then Tony says let's go freaking go I'm not wanting to go, but I know ethically we should go because that's the beauty of the team we have is there's always checks and balances where, okay, we're going to exhaust this because we need to go back out there during the day because we did go back and check, but it was at night. We need to go back there during the day. And Ward said, I see the fern here. I could just line up. We could stand in front of that fern if we can find.

it and we can look down and if we see something like it, then we know we didn't see it. But if we didn't, then we can say, we got it. It's not there anymore. So it's something was there. Something shaped like this moved. Moved. So walking up there, I'm not feeling good about this at all. Because I just know, I just got a feeling because I want it to not be there because then I'm just going to be the happiest guy on the planet. But at the same time, there's that thing larking back there. So we get up there. First, I don't see anything. Wardow, like, comes up behind and he lines up with the fern. And I can kind of see his face looking real weird. And so he's like, come over here and stand. He doesn't even say it's not there or it's there. He just says, come over here and

stand. So I come over there and stand. And immediately I see it. And I'm trying to tell myself I don't see it because you don't want to see it. And I'm like, I didn't, I don't see it. And then I'm just like, I see it. So then Ward is going to walk down there and point to it and I'm like, you don't have to do that. I see it because once I got a hold of the binoculars and was able to look that far, it was. It was the way some weird logs were shaped

that shadowed out what looks like a Bigfoot silhouette. Was it a fallen over a tree with the roots up? Is that what it was? I didn't get up close to it. It was basically, yeah, like a chunk of a stump that had fallen. It had from the perspective where Joel initially saw it, particularly given the time of day, because we saw it where the sun was in a different position, but it was basically a black silhouette

from that position in the shape of like shoulders and that conical Sasquatch head. I think what's really interesting about it is, we talked about perception and perception being colored. And the thing that you said when you came back was the impression of fur. He referenced it several times. So the shape, like we all saw it, was there, but what did not occur to me, and we all,

like, the shape was there to the point that all, Joe, the camera operator myself, we're all like, oh, that looks like it when we're walking along that trail. But what we didn't see was anything remotely like fur. and you had earlier in the week had this not like a complete vision of something that wasn't there just enough of a coloring of your perception to change what you thought like the demon face syndrome thing and then we have that happen

and then I don't want to jump too far out of line but I think this is important because at that point it definitely feels like the biggest thing that the biggest thing that we thought we had experienced wasn't and we're all like kind of down-spirited about that and we had you know left the meadow in that mode in that in that feeling then we came um we stayed at a like an Airbnb the night after hour and a half away by the way yeah 90 minutes away um we take the you know we're in different vehicles um my rental truck i had gotten into and out of eight times maybe between leaving the meadow location and back at the Airbnb had walked all around it because I was loading stuff into it so I had seen the entire

exterior of that truck several times we parked it that night went in slept finally got to shower come out the next morning and all around the outside of the truck there are muddy handprints and I don't mean like handprints in the dust. I mean like someone had jammed their hands into a thick, soupy mud puddle and like left marks all over big handprints. And on the right rear quarter panel, what appeared to be, I don't know how else you would make this mark, but fur that's muddy dragged across the outside of the car. And it felt very much like just I'm still

whatever it was it's very much like the fur that you saw that pushed us over the edge into pursuing that for as long as we did then we think it's nothing and then an hour and a half away the next morning it's like ha ha ha here look at this

for muddy fur on your car which is wild and and none of us were muddy by the way None of us were money like that. I can tell you going out there that third time, the final time where we figured out what it was, it did not look the same as the first time I saw it. Because when I saw it that time, I saw the shape that I saw the first time, but it didn't look filled out.

It didn't have that furry almost body to it. And that's what really threw me off was seeing it on the third time when we went out there to it not being it. Same shape, but it also brings you back to the demon face syndrome thing from earlier on that something was playing with my perception and it also was setting us up for failure because if we hadn't have gone back out there that third time, we would have put this out there and said, hey, we got this thing. We were being set up. Yeah.

So there's a supernatural element to this that needs to be considered, which is the setup to it. we if we didn't do if we didn't do our due diligence on this and i don't think anybody that was connected to the situation would have blamed us for not going out there because in our minds we had it right but if we hadn't done that there's no telling so like what you what we just described here there theoretically could have been a set up here where you were your perception was already being messed with earlier in the week. What we know now as a down tree or whatever appearing furry to you, which is already advancing that setup of something your your perceptions were being messed with. We go home. We put out this documentary. We show the entire world.

We got Bigfoot on film, baby. Who's to say that one, Tray's team investigates the area, finds it and does their own documentation of because that's what researchers do. And then it makes us look like fools or liars, even worse than fools. It puts them in a really bad position. Exactly. But who's to say that because Trace even said that the reason why he has people sign NDAs is because he doesn't have private access to his land. Anybody can walk onto it. So who's to say one day somebody doesn't figure out where the meadow is and do their own investigation and they see that and they're like, look, these guys set this whole thing up and they're liars. Like, there's a supernatural aspect of this that I believe is because we as a team are pulling back the curtain on darkness.

And like I don't think I said it earlier or stuff. Maybe I did. But our general mission statement would be we're putting ourselves in environments where things unfold traditionally to see it and try to document and to show the world that the supernatural is still happening. It's happening around us. We're trying to show people this. And I think I can speak for the three of us that our hope is that the more people understand that the supernatural is real and apparent, the more they have all the reason to run to Christ who can save them from the darkness. And so, like, we have this whole mission statement going on. And we're pulling back this curtain. Listen, I've been experiencing it for the last six months. Like, I am under constant. spiritual attack. I am like in so many different ways. Like I've been beat down and I'm just, I don't talk about a lot on the show, but you guys are my friends. We're here recording. But like, I've been getting beat down. And I do believe it's because of what I'm doing. Like, it's, it's aware, whatever that it is. And I feel like what happened on that trip

could have been a great setup to disqualify us as any kind of voice of this. is actually happening today. Two things. One, I remember after it happened, I wrote with you in the truck to the Airbnb, and I remember telling you that this needs to be documented because I felt like that as much as it sucked in the moment, that people needed to see how we perform in the field, even when it comes to, we found something, but we're going to exhaust as much as we possibly can to disprove it. So if we can't disprove it, then we can say, hey, look, this is something. We don't know exactly what it is, but it looks like something. You tell me what it is. I wanted us to be

ethical, first and foremost. And I want people when they watch the films to know that we're not out there creating these fake hoaxes and all this kind of stuff. That's not what we're trying to do. That's not our goal here. Number two, and I'm not going to go any in the details because it's a future film, but I had something super profound. happened on one of our last trips, and you were talking about crazy attacks. And I can say since that moment, beat down. Like, I went through a whole beat down stage after that where I was good, really good coming out of there. And I just felt like, man, for about three months, just boom, boom, boom, boom, constantly. And I do feel like the closer we get to what these things are and

revealing what we know about these things that the enemy's not going to be happy. And I think that's what we're partially we're going to deal with. You know, obviously as we move, you know, God's with us. And I think that he's also training us as we go too. So we're also getting stronger through it. You know, before you were to say something. Let me just say this. The way this crew came together from all different walks of life to be on this course together. And we've all felt confirmation individually that this is what we're supposed to be doing. I mean, I can speak for word because I know you won't do it. Like, you've consulted your elders at church about this before you even dove into it.

You're like, you're like, I really feel like God's calling me to do this, but I need advice and leadership and guidance. And there's been that similar thing amongst us where it's like we've all on our individual level have felt God saying this is what I want you to be doing. And to take it to, I mentioned him earlier, L.A. Marzuli, he even says he's like, stay away from unless God tells you to do something, don't touch the stuff. He's like, rebuke first, ask questions later. And I actually agree with that philosophy. Right. Like, but it's just the more, like when we started doing this exhibition dog man, like, dude, that was fun, man.

Like, running around the woods all week. I mean, it was less fun for him. He was carrying that heavy camera rig and stuff, but it was fun. And the AR. Yeah. Like, it was a lot of fun. And we're hunting this monster and we're in this area and we're all. together for the first time and we're in the woods where this radical story happened to Kyle

where he was attacked by a dogman. And here we are years later, many podcast episodes later, many documentary and trips later. And the difference between Exhibition Dogman and today is, for me personally, I really feel the spiritual baggage that comes from this. And And there is a level of attack that comes in. And until I started experiencing on my own, it's not just what we do, the three of us, but even with the show that I have, until I actually start experiencing it,

I would be like almost tongue-in-cheek, be like, yeah, God's got me. I ain't worry about that. And it's like, I still believe that. God's got me. God's called me to do this. It's well documented. I've shared the story a million times,

how I even started the podcast. But that doesn't mean the enemy's arrows don't stick, you know? But it does mean that God is with me. And God has positioned me and you and you and others in a way where it's like, listen, you're going to get hit. But I'm with you. And I know something you don't know, which is I've created you for this. And you can handle this because I got you. And that's how I view this. And, It's just been, it's been a big growing experience for me, but it has really, at the end of the day, gotten me in a position on a spiritual level that I don't think I've ever come close to. And I'm thankful for, to be honest with you. Coming down here, this time was really, really difficult.

There were a number of bizarre things that came together to the point that last night, I was calling you, Tony, to see if, like, you guys could handle the podcast yourself, because I was like, I don't really contribute anything to this. And then today, I was listening to something on the way down here, and I thought maybe talking about this is why I'm here, and it goes exactly to what you're saying. One of the, another weird phenomenon that we talk about in the film is there was an instance where one of the ASOG team members, after they had,

I think it's after they had done the CE5 thing. Not certain about the timeline, but she had a dream wherein she witnessed several symbols shown to her by a woman and a child who were outside of her tent in the dream. And the woman and the child

end up being members of ASOG that the person having the dream had not yet met. And she did, describes the symbols that were shown to her. There was a spiral. There was a spiral in the shape of a cube. And then there was a spiral in the shape of a cube with an eye in the middle. Speaking of watching, being watched. And it's funny, I've tried to, I did a bunch of research on that symbolism after we got back. And I've tried several times to record like a little addendum to the film to explain it, but it's convoluted and difficult. But the spiral, spiral in shamanic cultures is a pretty ubiquitous symbol for, we could say, a portal. And the direction of the spiral has to do with indicating travel in one direction or another. So if you think about the world tree, which is another sort of ubiquitous symbol, it's sort of the axis moon die of what unites heaven, earth, and the waters under the earth, or shale, the grave,

earth and heaven. The spiral, the idea is as you look up the world tree or down the world tree, the spiral goes in different directions. And you can think of a number of reasons this might be the case. If you're an ancient person, you encounter a whirlpool, which is sort of your natural spiral. It goes down. And if you go down there, you are most certainly going to the grave. You can see why that association might be there. The spiral, as you watch it, travels one direction and goes down. So in the dream that Christy Hudson had, the round spiral goes one direction and the cube spiral goes one direction. And then the cube spiral with the eye in, it goes the other direction. So we're talking about different directions up and down.

And I think, you know, Trey explicitly links that cubic spiral, because spiral means portal ubiquitously, links that to the cubic portal that they experienced, the thermal one. And I think the desire, I mean, we've even talked about this, the desire to find a portal or to travel through a portal or to is a desire to transcend sort of normal life and to ascend. And you hear people talk about this, like New Agefield talk about us all the time, you know, elevate your consciousness, ascend, this kind of thing. And I think that the hunger to ascend toward the divine is undeniable in all of us and to transcend mundane life and to access the realm of the divine. And that's why the portal thing is so compelling, because what's going to come

out of it? What happens when you walk into it? You know, these are the questions. We joke about Joel all the time, like if we find one jumping into the portal. And there's a part of all of us that, you know, wants to, it wants to go with him to jump right through there. What's interesting about the spiral thing is everywhere where we see high places built around the world, we see also spiral motifs, whether that's the staircase that ascends them, this kind of thing. So if you're not familiar with a high place, I'm sure listeners of this show know all about high places. but the idea is that literally you ascend a high place and that's ascending toward the divine, that that's where the divine will meet you is on the high place. So when you read in scripture, high places or ancient near east anything, high places,

that's the idea. It is itself sort of a portal up. And the spiral of the staircase is related to this. People think a couple of the sites where people think the Tower of Babel existed. If you look up, you know, recreate. of the archaeological sites, I think it's Ereda, you have spirals ascending the ziggurat, ascending the pyramid. So this desire to ascend to the divine, it's ubiquitous throughout all of these cultures

to the point where they're spending, you know, however much time you think it took them to build a pyramid or a zigerot or however they did it. It's something that's very significant to them. There's intent behind it on a civilizational level to ascend. The cubic portal is interesting because it's, it is that. But I want to make this point that, and we've in some of the subsequent projects that are going to come out over the next year. So we've talked about Crowley and occultists, and there's a cons, there's also a desire there to either, ascend to the divine or celestial or bring something down from the diviner celestial and meet with it through the portal motif, whatever the portal is.

Babel, Babel is gate of God. So when they build the Tower of Babel, the intent is to build their own gate to God. And that's how they do it. It's build the spiral of ziggurat. If you remember when Jacob falls asleep and has his vision of the ladder with the angels ascending and descending on it, right? Jacob's ladder is Jacob's ladder is a zygirot. It's a pyramid that goes up and down. And he calls the name of that place Bethel, House of God.

So we have Babel, Gate of God, which is the false. And we have Jacob's ladder, Bethel, House of God, which is the true. and then all of the temple motif tabernacle even the all of them are mountains of a sort that point back to the mountain of God in Eden we know that it was a mountain of God because the rivers run out of it water runs downhill so and we're even it's explicit I think in Ezekiel that God dwells on his holy mountain in Eden

so we have fake mountain and Babel and every example that's a Babel archetype throughout scripture is doing the same thing. False way to God. We put high places on churches. Now, we probably don't immediately get the point of that

because we're modern men, but that's why the steeple exists on a church. A steeple is an obelisk. An obelisk is just a pyramid made tall. And then we put on the top of the steeple, on the top of our high place, we put a cross.

We're not inventing that out of nothing. That's a high place where we're saying the meeting point between God and man, the way to traverse to the divine. If you really want to do it, the real portal is the cross. Real portal is the one who hung on the cross. To be united to Christ is to commune with the divine and is to ascend. So what all of the occultists, all of the Babel archetypes from Babylon, Sodom, all of them,

are attempting to do, attempting to get to the divine via a counterfeit gate, a counterfeit Babel, counterfeit Bethel. The cross, Christ, is the true Bethel, is the true Jacob's ladder, is the true way to the divine. And I think it's poetically, like, it's just perfect, that what happens when you take a cube and you unfold it? You get a cross. So I want to just say,

I think that something to take from the strange things, there are symbols that are used deceptively, and there are symbols sometimes that are inescapable, because just the way that God made the world. And I think this is the symbol that I take and that's been reinforcing over and over again in these experiences is the desire to ascend or transcend the mundane and achieve connection

to the divine is the right impulse. It's the right impulse. The occult go about it as if their will does it. They go about it in a counterfeit way. And it's always a trade, as we found with some of the Crowley research,

it's always a trade, and you never get what you really want. And what you really want is true connection to the true God, true divine. Get your passion in a business with Shopify, and bathe records of ventas

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