The Confessionals - 806: The Alien Deception

Episode Date: November 4, 2025

Decades of UFO research unravel when Tony sits down with investigator Joe Jordan to expose what’s really behind the phenomenon. What many call “contact” or “enlightenment” turns out to be a deception that only the name of Jesus can end. Joe reveals how encounters that began with curiosity became battles for the soul, won only through Christ’s authority. The veil between spiritual and interdimensional begins to tear, revealing who’s truly in control. This conversation traces the journey from counterfeit light to the undeniable power of salvation.Please pray for Tony's wife, Lindsay, as she battles breast cancer. Your prayers make a difference!If you’re able, consider helping the Merkel family with medical expenses by donating to Lindsay’s GoFundMe: https://gofund.me/b8f76890Become a member for ad-free listening, extra shows, and exclusive access to our social media app: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinThe Confessionals Social Network App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZTony's Recommended Reads: slingshotlibrary.comIf you want to learn about Jesus and what it means to be saved: Click HereMy New YouTube ChannelMerkel IRL: @merkelIRLMy First Sermon: Unseen BattlesThe Meadow Project: Stream HereMerkel Media Apparel: merkmerch.comSPONSORSSIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsGHOSTBED: GhostBed.com/tonyCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] JordanBook | CE-4 ResearchMAILING ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/theconfessionals/Discord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelProduced by: @jack_theproducerOUTRO MUSICJoel Thomas - ImposterYouTube | Apple Music | Spotify

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Lindsay she is battling breast cancer right now and we're praying

for complete healing in Jesus' name. Thank you. Merkel. Media. This was all circulating around the base that a giant had to kill, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, bony fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave, and they're all.

all frozen and he starts running and firing at this giant. Well, the giant moves. He's got a spear in one hand and he's running really fast. And spears Dan holds him up like this. Somebody else shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face. They basically decapitated. This is got close. He's got closer when he got a little.

I feel something pulling at my leg. And I look over and there are two small gray entities pulling it. and they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed. I reached my hand into this bush, and I touch air. Couldn't breathe and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. Welcome to the show, everybody. You're listening to The Confessionals Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Merkel.

Thanks for being here. If you have an experience or something you'd like to share on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is contact at theconfessionalspodcast.com. That's contact at the confessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, theconfessionalspodcast.com. hit the contact section and you can reach me that way as well. Other words for me, just get a hold of me. If you want more shows on a weekly basis, we house them on our own app.

We had an app built that is a social media platform. You have your own profile page. You can communicate with other listeners. It's basically like Facebook only for the confessionals members. And you get access to the member episodes on that app. So if that interests you, you want to hear more shows and communicate with other listeners in your own custom designed app for you. as a listener, The Confessionals Podcast, become a member today,

the confessionalspodcast.com slash join. Also check out MerckMurch for Merkel Media Apparel. We have given the green light to a new design. It's in production right now. Looking forward to sharing that with you guys very soon. MerkMurch.com. And also check out Merkelfilms.com for on-demand streaming. We just came out with the Meadow Project.

That's available for on-demand streaming right now at Merkelfilms.com. And we have a new docu-series. coming next Tuesday, November 11th, on Merkelfilms.com. I'm looking forward to sharing that with you next week. But go ahead and check out what we have right now, Merkelfilms.com. Now, today I have Joe Jordan coming on the show. I sit down with him to uncover the shocking truth behind these so-called alien abductions

and why so many of them stop instantly at the name of Jesus Christ. What most people think are extraterrestrials, Joe reveals as fallen entities carrying out a powerful spiritual deception, And we talk about it on today's show. Let's get to Joe right now. All right, today we have Joe Jordan here in studio. How are you, sir? I'm good.

Thank you for the invite. I'm glad you're here. So as often happens with me is, so I tend to get yapping before we start recording. And we were over in the green room. And we started talking about disclosure and everything. And I was actually pretty surprised that I actually caught myself. And I said, you know what? We just just go in the studio and start recording.

You know, but we were talking about disclosure. And, you know, I guess before we get into that, maybe we can kind of lay the groundwork for who you are, for people that maybe don't know. But you have, you know, a life of 30-plus years researching the alien phenomenon, Mufon Investigator. And you started connecting dots over the years with people being able to stop these abductions with the name of Jesus.

And years ago, I looked it up, I think it was episode 154 is when I had you on. And we talked about that. And I kind of want to dive into these things again today. But if you could, maybe, I don't know, introduce yourself to the people, I suppose. Well, I'm Joseph Jordan. By profession, I'm a safety professional working at the Kennedy Space Center for one of the leading aerospace companies that is up and moving. But on the side, and for the past 35 years now or more,

I've been researching the UFO phenomenon and primarily the alien abduction phenomenon. And 32 years now since I made a profession of faith of Jesus Christ, and that's the perspective that I'm working at this from, looking at all this as a researcher from the Christian perspective. I've had the opportunity to look at it from two other perspectives. When I first started into all of this, I was an agnostic humanist, and that's the view that I looked at everything through,

the lenses that I looked through. Couldn't find answers for any of the questions that I had. Eventually got sucked into the new age metaphysical realm for a few years, trying to find answers there. From that perspective, another separate perspective. to look at this, only more questions. And it wasn't until 1996 in the fall when I made a profession of faith for Jesus Christ and started looking at this from a Christian perspective that all the answers start falling in place.

The answers to questions that the secular researchers today are still asking, but yet we have answers to them from the Christian perspective. So you said agnostic humanist and new age metaphysicist, right? New age practitioner. New age practitioner. Maybe let's pull out that a little bit. So when you say agnostic humanist, I've heard of diagnostics. What do you mean by humanist?

Humanist being, I was accepting everything that I learned in public school. Okay. Okay. Living out the human existence was real. Yeah. That whole thing. There is no God. You know, that whole concept, we live for, we live life to the fullest.

And I was trying to do that at the time, you know, in every wrong way that we would say as a Christian. Yeah. So it wasn't working out for me. And I'm glad I made it to a relationship with Jesus Christ where things changed for me. Yeah. And actually gave me a future and some hope, you know, in life. So a major difference. For sure.

Major difference. And when it comes to New Age, so you go from an agnostic humanist to New Age, and you said for a few years. So how long were you in the New Age? Almost four years. And it's the research that brought me into it because when I first started looking at the abduction experiencers, they were coming to my monthly meeting as a Mufon representative, the meetings that I was holding. And the more we started to talk with them and interview them, the more I realized that they were up to something that I wasn't privy to until I finally overheard them and asked them about it.

And what they were talking about was they were looking for hope and help for what they had been through because their lives have been turned upside down. And they had been looking into the new age area for help. The new age people seemed to be offering all sorts of crazy ideas to help them. and what they were dealing with, nothing I saw really worked for them, but they were trying. The only options that they had besides that was maybe go into a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist, and at best they'd be put into group therapy, where they'd be amongst other like-minded people that have gone through similar experiences. But that doesn't stop the experience.

That only helps in the aspect that you're not alone in this, you know, And that may be helpful to a point, but these people wanted the experiences to actually stop. And they were looking anywhere and everywhere to try and they're open to somebody giving them some help. And I think the new age people were taking major advantage of them with their crazy ideas that they were throwing out there because nothing was effective for them. But it was an avenue that I had to look at as an honest researcher. Why is this new age connection here with this abduction experience? What is it is what's enticing these people to go there? And as I started to explore it, something affected me because of it.

And I guess I didn't realize that I was missing something in my life. And the New Age was able to offer that piece that I was missing. And that piece that I was missing was spirituality. As an agnostic humanist, you don't have that at all. But once I got into the New Age, they were offering a form of spirituality, which was very seductive to me. I mean, I grew up in the church. I didn't accept it. But I knew there was something there that made us feel good. And that was some type of spirituality. Well, what they were offering, what made it so seductive, was a new age offers the spirituality, but without accountability. So it's a free-for-all, you know. And that's what's the way.

sucks a lot of people in. And it did me too. And it wasn't until later that I realized what pulled me in was having that missing piece in my life. And I didn't realize I needed it and was looking for it myself. So I got pulled right into it, became part of it, was teaching other people about it. I was converting other Christians about it at the time. Into new age. Into new age. And it was amazing how easy it was because they really didn't know the word of God, like they should have as believers. And you could pull them right into it, same way I was pulled in. So when it came to 1996 and I was offered the gospel message from a friend,

I realized that, hey, you know, this new age stuff is hokey. And I really want something serious. And once I was offered the gospel message at that time, in a way that I'd never heard it before, I was ready for it. And I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Master in 1996, November. And that changed my whole career. I didn't realize that I would be here today doing this, you know, 30-some years ago. Yeah.

I thought it was just a short-time thing I would be into, find some answers and move on. But God had a plan, I guess. God always has a plan. Yeah. And he uses those willing to walk the path that he lays before him. Yeah. So, let's just say four years, new age. Now, I remember a couple nights ago I was talking to you about just my limited knowledge of new age, especially when I first started the show.

Yeah. And I remember sitting behind the computer, this is back in the day when I was interviewing people with just audio, not looking at their face, nothing. I was just sitting there listening. We're having conversation over like a phone, right? and they said they would say things like the Christ consciousness. Yes. And the way, I can't even put it in the way they would say it because I'm not New Age. But before they would say that, I would be like, this person sounds like they're possibly a Christian, like the way they were talking, right?

Yes. And then they would say Christ's consciousness. And I was like, oh, clearly. Everybody should be conscious of Christ. I'm conscious of Christ. And that's a really unique way of putting it. But yeah, I totally agree. You know, had no idea.

It means something totally different. Yeah. And so you have four-year stint with this, I imagine there's different layers to it. There is. Because I know there's some people that are like, you know, my spirit guides came to me or guiding me. Did you ever get that far into it? I actually was following a local channeler at the time. she claimed to be a Pleiadian channeler.

And I got involved with her group and was following her and listening to the teachings that she was given under her channeling, you know, in times that she would go into the channeling mode. And I was quite fascinated with that whole process of what was happening there. But, you know, the messages, they were interesting, they were hopeful. But they were meaningless in the end, you know? And the crazy thing, the more I spent time in there, the more I realized how crazy this whole thing is, is there's many, many channelers out there that are channeling these high motive spirits, you know. But the thing is, their messages are always different.

Why is that? You know, why wouldn't they all be bringing the same message if they're from the same source? And those things like that puzzled me and made me question, you know, what was I really involved with. The whole new age idea is there is no personal God. He's a force. It's a force. And they believe that we all have that force in us because of being created by this force.

So we are all, their idea is we're all part of God. In other words, taking it to what was that famous actor is Shirley McLean, where in her movie, she goes down on the beach and she's screaming out, I am God. That's where they try to take this to because we have the God, and spirit in us that we too are gods. And I had to joke about that. In the beginning, when I first got involved, it's, it goes right to the ego, you know, you want to go, okay, yeah, that's me. You know, I can be that. But as I spent more and more time in there, I thought, you know what, that person, I wouldn't follow them if they were God, you know. And I had to start looking at myself the same way.

You know, when I follow myself, I didn't know myself. And I claimed to be God. And I thought, heck, no, you know. But then I realized that that's what this whole thing is based on. They talk about enlightenment, being able to achieve nirvana or enlightenment. And that's all done through knowledge. It's all done through gaining special knowledge. So the whole concept is to try to gain as much knowledge as you can in this lifetime to be able to move yourself up.

The whole idea they also believe in is reincarnation. And I looked at that and I thought, yeah, maybe this is possible. And, of course, I came across people who believed that they had lived past lives, listened at her stories. And, you know, it was always, they were always an Egyptian. person or something that was of a high, you know, high status, why were none of them ever slaves that were doing the building of this stuff, you know? Nobody had past lives of being a slave. I thought, this is crazy.

Everybody chosen here is from some special position. So these are things that made me question what I was involved in, you know? Yeah. But it's a free-for-all. This whole idea of accountability without accountability, you know, that's crazy because anything is allowed. And the whole new age thing is a free for all. The drugs are still prevalent.

You know, these are the hippies of the old late 60s, early 70s. It's just still around. You know, they didn't grow up or new ones got caught up in it. They had kids and taught their kids their way, right? Kids learn the same thing. Little disciples. Yeah, but it's the same story. Nothing's changed.

It amazes me that I've been in this for so long. And then I look at the social media that I follow, and I see people talking about this like it's their first time they're hearing it, you know. And I'm going, geez, this stuff just never stops. Another generation comes up and it's all new to them. And they forget that it's been around for so long, you know. Yeah. Most of the new age is all a regurgitated and mixed batch of, you know, far eastern religions, you know. they look at different things that they've taken from India or from the Far East and they

Americanize it, you know, so it's make up your own. You want to start a cult, you want to start a religion, you know, the new age is a place to do it. You know, that's the place to do it. Wow. You know, I think about that too, even with what I do. Not that I consider my following a cult, but how easy it is to, for somebody that is hosting a platform to kind of almost without even realizing it adopt a mentality of a cult leader, you know? And I'm not saying I've, I hope I haven't struggled with that, but I don't think I have, but it goes back to kind of what you were shadowing earlier, which is just like the idea of, you know, would I follow me? You know, it's being honest with yourself and putting away the pride, which I think this, a lot of the stuff

that we deal with these entities that are manifesting, like it's, it pulls at people's pride. It really kind of, it toys with this idea of, you know, special knowledge and, you know, let me make you everything that, you know, you can be to, to be the one, you know, Neo. Yeah. You know, and it's like, that's exactly the opposite with the scripture. The scripture is, you know, humbling yourself before the Lord, letting him take the reins. He leads you. You follow.

Yeah. And, you know, I just, the more I look at this stuff, the less I want to be a cold leader. Yeah. And, you know, some people may look at you in that position, you know, once you get a big following. But the thing is to be careful of, and I think that it's the best avenue to go, is let them follow the confessionals, not Tony Merkel. Right. That's the difference. When you leave this room and you go back to your family life, everyday life, you're not the confessionals. You're Tony Merkel. So as long as you keep that separated, because that's where the cults come in. They don't separate it.

They make it so it's not follow my information. It's follow me. And that's the difference. We don't do that in our work. I don't do that. I don't see you doing that. It's like follow the work that we're showing you, the research that we found, but don't follow me personally because it's not about me.

It's about Jesus Christ. You know, follow him. You know, you want a cult. Follow him. That's a great goal to be part of. Yeah. It's got good benefits. Right.

And like even so when I, over the years, I mean, there's been plenty of times where I felt like I missed stepped on things. And when I, when I, not when somebody who I don't even know says something to me, but when I feel like I'm being convicted by the Holy Spirit that, hey, you know, lighten up on this or what. whatever. I usually, not like, I don't come up open the show, be like, guys, this is confession time with Tony. But it's, when it's in conversation, I'll take it, I'll make a point to bring it up. You know, I make a point to bring up the fact that before I started the podcast, I had a really bad period of my 20s where I was intentionally trying to take my marriage. I was just a terrible human being. And I try to remind people that because I'm not that now. And I want people to know

that I was that. And I have nothing to hide. And even when it comes to like within the show, I remember I always use this example because it's always fresh on me. And it's very, important to me. Because I feel like I still am trying to live off the remnant of my actions. shortly after I think I moved here or maybe around the time I moved here, the reality of some of the supernatural realm really started sitting in. And I became fascinated with this idea of portals. And it became unhealthy. I just wanted to talk about it all the time and obsess over it.

And one, I think it's kind of ridiculous to get so fascinated by a doorway. Like, it's just like, like, that's literally what it is. It's like, why are we getting so excited about a door? But also, you know, I started getting convicted by it. And then it was confirmed me by a friend of mine, Dr. Laura Sanger. I had dinner with her out in Utah. Her husband and Jack were there. And she told me, she said, with the first time she met me,

she was really concerned about me because of, I guess in my conversations that are not even realizing it, I would bring up such things. Sure. And I told her I saw the same thing. But I try to bring all that stuff up whenever I can just to kind of paint the picture to people who do follow the show that I'm not the one to follow. That's why I try to represent Christ as much as I can because that's the one I want people to follow. I'm just this loser with the podcast, Mike. You know, it's like I don't have any magical powers to save people and change their lives.

I just have a microphone where we have discussion and hopefully Christ has reflected as much as possible you know and the mission has evolved over the years but my heart has always been strong for the Lord so we were talking earlier in the green room about

the disclosure stuff and that is a topic that came up I think it was like 2017 I think it was I started the show in 2017 January and I think it was around October is when it all started dropping And back then, honestly, I didn't care.

I didn't care. When I started the show, I was coming out of the Bigfoot world where I was like really interested in a big... I still topic of conversation I'd like to have, right? But UFOs, aliens, I was like, whatever, I don't care. When the government came out and said it, I was like, all right, I still, it doesn't do anything for me, you know? it wasn't until as it got deeper into this quote unquote disclosure and you start hearing them the whispers they were they were coming out with and I was just like oh okay I think what I have been suggesting and feeling as this is a spiritual phenomenon I think they're shadowing but they're

not saying it and I don't know why and that's I'm assuming what you maybe not the I don't know why part play. Like, I'm assuming you saw that too pretty early on. Absolutely. So what were your thoughts on the whole disclosure? Were you surprised by the disclosure when they first came out with it? Not really. I saw what was happening a few years before that. And I knew that something was going to have to break on this because of what I was seeing.

And I wasn't caught off guard when they decided to come out and share the stuff like from the Nimitz back in 2017 from the New York Times. it was farther back because like I've been in this going on 35 years now, 36 years. Keep in mind that this phenomenon has changed so much over the past decades. Back in the 50s, early 60s, you know, they had the giant rock gatherings out in the desert where contactees used to come out there and they'd have their early little conferences, I guess, out. open air and people would be selling their books and telling their stories. But back then, the extraterrestrial was a humanoid-looking being that they were in contact with, and they were from the early planets in our solar system. And then as NASA started getting space probes out there and being able to see these other planets up close in our solar system and realizing

that nothing can live on these things. They're not like what we thought. All of a sudden, the beings that were visiting people were no longer from our solar system. Now they're from star systems and galaxies and star clusters out there someplace else, farther, farther out, where we can't reach and can't explore yet. So they changed, and the appearance changed. The early 70s, all of a sudden, now we come out. Now, Hollywood comes out with the gray alien like you see in the picture here.

That was the early 70s. Yeah. Okay. And that changed again. Now people are starting to see that creature. And then other ones started to pop up. Keep in mind, it was still perceived to be a physical creature that people were experiencing, a physical event. But at the time I got to 2008, I had the opportunity out to host a conference.

myself first time. In 2007, in Roswell was the 60th anniversary of the Roswell crash at the UFO festival there. That one was probably the biggest they ever had. My partner, Guy Malone, was actually the director for the city hosting that conference for them. And he put together one humongous conference. And it was three, four days long of speakers. He made it to wait. I had an opportunity to speak there in that conference. It was so taxing on everybody to put that huge conference together that on the last day before I flew home, we were talking to the council members that are part of putting the festival

and conference together. Guy was there with me, and they were just all talking about how exhausted they were, and they weren't ready to do this again anytime soon. So I'm getting a feeling that they're not even looking at doing anything in 2008. So I asked the question. I said, so what's for next year? They didn't want to talk about it.

You know, not yet. They needed to just relax and get their heads back together and relook at this. And I said, well, the reason I asked is I'm making the offer. If you guys are interested, I would take over and be director for 2008. This guy wanted nothing to do with it after 2007. it was such a big task. And I had some other people there in Roswell that it were friends that were going to help me put it together from me being in Florida. And they accepted it.

They said, okay, you can have it. You know, we'll fund it. And you can put it together and we'll do it under the aspect of CE4. And I said, okay. And I had 15 talks for the 2008 conference, 13 speakers altogether. and over three days. And this is when everything started to change. I invited what I thought was the best of the best at that time for leading secular researchers.

Because this is a secular conference. But keep in mind, if you're a Christian and you're the director, you can get yourself in there talking too or any other Christian. And I used that opportunity to be able to get the Christian message, a gospel message, in there. along with my findings, and at the same time, but the attraction was going to be the big names in Uphology that I was bringing to the conference. I did not expect what I heard there at that conference. I knew these guys, I knew their work, guys and women, speakers that I brought in. I just never expected them to say the things that they were saying that year.

and almost every single one of them, without me realizing it was going to happen, we're talking about could we be dealing with something other than EBE? Really? Really. Wow. That was when it started to shift in the perspective of what this could be. They were starting to at least question it. Let's define EBE, by the way, because it doesn't come up.

Extraterrestrial biological entity from another planet or another, another, another, another, another system, meaning they physically came here long distance and they're physically here, you know, and that's what we're dealing with. People are experiencing physical beings and a physical presence. But now they're starting to question, all the red flags that are coming up, you know, making things that I talk about as red flags of uphology, things that don't make sense. They're starting to see them too. And they're thinking, maybe this could be something that's more interdimensional, extra dimensional, hyperdimensional. It's first time I started hearing this. 2008? Wow. And it was amazing was they were all coming up with this. I had Richard

Dolan questioning this. I had Farah Yadozu, the Turkish researcher. She believes it's the gin, you know, that's the first time I was hearing that. And Greg Bishop, he was questioning, What else could this be? You know, so these are major players coming in here and going, wow, I'm going like, this is a shift in the whole attitude here. Why do you think that was? I mean, because this is, I mean, you've been doing the research for so long, and you were caught off guard by so many people that were secular doing that research. Because it wasn't the line they were towing. They were towing the extraterrestrial biological entity.

And I guess they were starting to see a lot of things that made them question. is this truly a physical being? Okay. Because things weren't making sense. They were starting to see the same things I was seeing. It's just they didn't go that far as I did, you know, thinking this could be angelic or spiritual in any aspect. They don't think that way. But they knew there was that realm of interdimensional.

It could be another dimensional being that's coming here and showing up and not traveling vast distances. But they can appear here, you know. So that got them thinking, and that was a wake-up call to me to realize that this whole thing is changing again. You know, it changed from the 50s. It changed in the 70s, and here it is changing again in, you know, in 2000. And then you've got, you get to where we are today, and now we have two separate camps that have been developed. the three-letter agencies, the military, they're still trying to tow the line that this is an extraterrestrial biological entity,

that they are traveling these distances. This is about technology. But the secondary researchers have been hanging on to what they started to recognize. And they're starting to still stay with and push even more the idea that this is an interdimensional being. And as Christians, they can say interdimensional, extramential, hyperdimensional, all they want. We know what they're talking about. They're talking about what we call the spiritual realm. Okay.

But they're trying to answer this from using scientific lingo. And science doesn't include the lingo that we use from scripture. So they're doing their best. They truly believe that this is some type of high technology still. Even if it's an interdimensional being, they believe that they have high technology. Myself, being able to look at this from a Christian perspective and believing that this is actually angelic beings or spiritual beings from that realm, spiritual realm, this is not technology we're seeing. They may be giving humanity technology, the ideas of technology, but they don't need technology. They're spirit beings.

The reason that it appears to be technology or they use the idea that it's technology is because they can't say anything else. They have to say that because from a secular perspective, that's all it can be is technology. But come on, an angel doesn't need technology. What we're seeing that they think is a high technology is actually just a natural ability of an angelic being to manifest into our realm. which is something they can do. And Jack Sarfardi, the super physicist here on planet Earth, best description I heard him give for what he believes a UFO is, and I thought, this is perfect.

I watched him in an interview, and he says, this is how I describe a UFO. He says, what we see on the object is a skin, an external skin. and it can appear as anything, but it's just the skin. Inside the skin is consciousness. And I thought when I first heard that, that's genius. He's right there. He just needs to step over the line and say what it is.

But what he's describing is a spiritual manifestation. That's exactly what a spiritual manifestation is. When angels appear, you know, in front of humanity in our realm coming from their realm. We look at the instances of visitations in scripture. These spirit beings are manifesting into the physical. They're God's angels, the stories we see in the Bible, they come to give a specific message to somebody that's human. So they're manifesting to be more comfortable with them. Sometimes they appear in their natural form, but many times the stories we see, they've appeared as human beings. But are they human when they're here? Of course not. They're not human. They're still a spiritual being. They can't

make themselves a human being. What they've done is they've manifested into the appearance of a human being. Then people will say, well, wait a minute. The scripture says that they sat and ate with people, had dinner with them. Well, you've got to look at that from a different perspective, too. Look at it from the time period and who the culture was. Jewish culture. Thousands of years ago, time period, custom was, if you got a visitor, you feed him. That's why they put that in there, okay? Not because they needed to eat, but they served the purpose of fitting the culture and, you know, the things that they do, you know, when they meet people, they knew that. So it wasn't that they needed to eat anything.

Could they? They could put it in them, I'm sure. But they're still not a physical human being. They just appear as that because then they disappear. So with that, actually, let me backtrack to the craft itself, the tech idea. Where do we go with it then when people like, let's start with Jake Barber, who says that, you know, we're using psionics to bring these things down, right? And he even says that he was part of recoveries of craft. What do you say to that then?

I'm trying to think who said the term, made the term for it. I remember hearing it on Joe Rogan, one of his interviews. I don't know whether he said it or one of the other people he was interview and said it. But the idea is these crafts that they're leaving, physical manifestations that they've put together is to further convince us of this lie that's being perpetrated that they're from other beings from other worlds. Somebody made the comment that what these these crafts are crash crafts, is there a gift? They're made as a gift to be able to further the delusion that's happening,

plus enticing us to say, here, we'll give you this, okay, learn from it. So you're saying they're not to be. But, okay, let me just clarify. You're not saying that, and maybe you are, I don't know, the UFO craft, you're saying that these fallen angels do have the ability to gift something physical to humanity to study for technology? Sure. Okay.

But what you're saying is that on their end of things, they don't need that to ride around it. No, they don't. Gotcha. They don't need that at all. I agree. I mean, because I, you know, I can't say certain things just because,

well, you know the person I'm talking about. But, it was it was rather confirming to me when I had my meeting with them with a lot of suspicions that I had as far as like the wise you know and the these craft I think it's so it's so layered this whole thing and and it's like an onion yeah it because it's it has a path of deception any way you turn your head.

Yes. And when you go down a path and it has forks in it. And there's a whole psychological aspect to the craft and the individual receiving that information. So like some people,

unless the craft lands in their front lawn and they get to knock on it, they're not going to believe, right? Right. But for some people, it's just the word of Jake Barber. Yeah. You know, and, oh, he showed us a video that kind of looked like an egg.

We don't know what it was or where it came from, but I'm now believing. But the thing is, it's not just Jake Barber. Look how many so-called whistleblowers they're bringing in. They're bringing in a massive army of whistleblowers that are trying to sway us. With different stories. Different stories. That makes it interesting, too. Makes it just that much more confusing.

But their intent is to overwhelm us. with these whistleblower stories because how much evidence are they producing? Zero. It's, trust me, I know a guy, and this is what I told me. I can't say what I want to say right now. Yeah. So, you know, some people may fall for that, but I'm not falling for that. I mean, if you got it, you're going to claim that you got something you need to show us, you know,

because that's what disclosure is, is showing it, not just telling it. Yeah. You know, because I'm not going to take your word for it. These are the same guys that have been doing the SIOP to try and cover up their secret aircraft that they've been developing for years and years. They've been using all of us that believe in this UFO phenomenon as their free cover up for their secret aircraft to get developed. I'm all for keeping secret aircraft, you know, during development stage because we have people out there that want that technology that we're developing for our protection. so that they can know how to come against us once we develop it. You know, it's back and forth between a lot of the major nations, you know, that don't like us.

So I'm all for keeping secrets. The whole thing that's sad, though, is they used us in this, you know, the whole idea that we believe it's a flying saucer and not a aircraft that's being developed by one of the contractors out of Area 51, you know, that's free to them because they've got us believe. that everything we see is extraterrestrial. Yeah. So they want to continue that. They really do, you know, because they lose that cover if it's all blown. Do they have crash craft? I've yet to see any evidence of it.

They say there is. So what I'm saying, is it possible that these entities can leave something for us to put our hands on? Absolutely. There's examples in scripture that angels have actually done that. Look at the staff that Moses had. That was a supernatural staff, you know, yet it was a physical staff that he could carry and walk with. But yet he threw it down in front of the Pharaoh's magicians and it ate up, you know,

because theirs turned into snakes and his ate it up. That's a pretty incredible ability there. But it's there. He was able to hold it. So, yes, I think it's possible. Yeah. This, I believe what we're dealing with is all a delusion. And I think, like you said, it's layered and it's layered on purpose so that we never get the answer to it.

The only answer you're ever going to get to it is God's word. So you either spend your crazy time trying to find the answers by peeling back layer after layer and there's just more questions. Or you finally go to God's word and get the answer you need to, which is what we've done. Yeah. And that's, I mean, in all honesty, that is a huge part of it, which is let's get everybody, Christians, non-Christians, New Agers, everybody talking and discussing, debating and arguing about these beings, the craft in the sky, supernatural phenomena, and let's get them distracted enough where the name of Jesus doesn't come up anymore.

Exactly. It's, and I've seen it so much in so different, so many different areas over the years. And like I said earlier, like, I've been guilty of such things. I mean, there has been plenty of times in the show's existence where I find something new and I'm like, this is fascinating. And I find myself obsessing over it, you know? And it's strategically designed to keep you from looking to Christ. Yes. And I see that myself. These crafts, it is so, in my mind, like, layered, complex. You brought up the psionics part. Yeah, being able to be in contact with these craft or call the craft down. You know, excuse me, but that's not technology we're talking about there.

Right. You know, how do you add that part into an extraterrestrial. biological being, you know, that these beings can hear you, they can read your thoughts. I mean, come on, that's not a technology. That's something altogether different. That's an ability that, and they're missing that part. They're not even talking about that part. The only part of that that they're talking about is going to Stephen Greer, Dr. Greer,

where he's pushing the CE5 initiative where you can actually call them down this whole psionics and he teaches you how to do that. Well, come on. I don't think we're dealing with EBEs there at all for sure. And he pretty much puts it that way. He says, no, these are these are interdimensional beings that we can contact in their realm and they can, we can call them into ours. Did he always do that? Did he always have that kind of messaging? So it evolved. Yeah, his evolve too. Did it evolve because of the information he gathered or was it evolving as and he was doing this always, but it wasn't until the mass amount of people

who were ready to accept what he was doing as to when his best been changed. Yeah, that's pretty much what happened. Really? So he's always been doing CE5? Not always. That's moved later. His primary thing when he first got into this

was he was the disclosure guy. He was the one pushing for disclosure. And he was the biggest one out there. And then it changed. And that's when he picked up on the idea of the CE5 aspect that they could be called in. So, and that, you know, again, there's that split in the camp. You know, you've got that extreme where he says, no, these are, these are interdimensional beings that we can talk to if you want. How do you know which one you're talking to, you know?

You can't dial them up specifically to one to talk to. You have to trust not their word. Exactly. And I bring this up in my talks. I said, you know, these same people, I've talked to them on my social media pages that follow the CE5 stuff. And I ask them, I said, you know, we've never met. If I came to your house and knocked on your door, would you let me in? No, I don't know you. You know? I said, I got kids and everything. But wait a minute. But you're letting these beings come into your mind and your life. And you do have kids there. you know, and you don't ask who they are or where they're from or what their intentions are. You know, that's crazy. I think there is a deep-rooted cause there. And I think it's, I think you hinted at it earlier. We, and I think you and I talked about this the other day, we have been so starved spiritually.

Yeah. That we don't even know it. First of all, like, the people don't even know it. No, I didn't. And so, like, when you, when you have this spiritual, experience that your inner man has been starving for, there is, you haven't trained your muscle, your spiritual muscles for discernment. And so you jump at what feels good, which is also a cultural thing of do what feels good, what makes you happy and not what is truth. And all of a sudden,

you're like, what I just experienced was you can't tell me it's not real. And because you can't tell me it's not real, there's this innate trust that gets put there because you just fed me steak, and I've been starving for that my whole life. Yeah. It's fake steak. That's exactly what's happening with the CE5 initiative and the psionics aspect of all of this. People can have an experience. They can call something down and actually see something without having to, you know, wait randomly for it to happen, you know, and that's, that can be so dangerous, but they just don't realize it. They're so seduced by the experience. and being special chosen, you know, having special knowledge.

That's the attraction. And where have we heard that before? Yeah. Right from the scriptures of the Bible from the garden. Yeah. That was the same seduction that the enemy brought to Adam and Eve. And it's still the same one today. It hasn't changed.

Yeah. So calling these things in, it's obviously become really popular. And I didn't even know what, when I started hearing C.E.5, I was like, I don't know what that was. You know, like, I think I might even heard about it after I had seen your stuff. I was like, oh, they should add another letter. They are another number, you know, like, he took C4 or so, you know, you have C4 research. They're like, I will do CE5, you know. I didn't know what it meant. Yeah. And then there's a CE6 also. Of course. And then tomorrow's going to be CE7. Yeah. What is CE6?

C. CE6 deals with injury or death from encounters. Okay, so like NDE's. Well, that's interesting to bring that up, but yeah, that could be. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, there is a connection, I believe, between all the experiences, NDE's, spiritism, ghost hunting, UFOs. They're all interconnected, which to me is another red flag.

Why would it be all interconnected? Why are they seeing the same beings in all different realms? Yeah. You know, and even throw in the ayahuasca and the DMT experiences, they're meeting the graze there. You know, that doesn't make any sense at all. You know, if they're an extraterrestrial biological entity, how are you meeting them on a drug trip? Yeah. You know? So, yeah, this is, the whole thing is so crazy. Yeah. And even, I forget where I was going with that initially, but, yeah, I don't remember, but bouncing off what you just said, so during the,

Amalancho working Crowley back in the early 1900s encounters Lamb. And Lamb, when you look at the pictures, looks like a big-headed gray type entity, right? And it's funny how, and I haven't studied it nearly as much as other people have, but I'm pretty sure during that, the idea was that like there was something coming in the future almost. It's like, this isn't for now, but for later almost. I think. I might be completely wrong on that. But it's just interesting how what we see happen during that with Alistair Crowley, if you want to, it's, I don't want to say it's a leave. If you want to say it's a connection point, it's like, I could see it, you know, because what we see with the gray's today and how they're depicted, that should give people pause. Yeah. Like, it should give you pause that that Crowley was summoning these things back before Roswell.

Yeah. It's, but people don't look at that. They, they only, they're so enticed by the experience that they blind themselves to everything else. You know, this experience itself is so seductive. I mean, I was one, I was there begging for an experience myself. I was absolutely begging for it, you know, because you get to a point, and this is something that it's been brought up in the UFO research is researchers eventually end up becoming experiencers. Why is that, you know?

I can see why it is because they're opening their doors up to this experience for it to happen to them, which is exactly what I found in all the testimonials from the people I've worked with that have the experience. I was one of those people, too. I was so frustrated that I was begging the sky to show me something if you're real, you know, because it's really frustrating just chasing, you know, your tail and not getting anywhere, which is what's happening in most of the realm because it's so complicated and there's no evidence for anything. So we're just constantly looking everywhere. But be careful what you ask for because you, you know, they're there. to give you an experience to convince you and keep you, you know, hook, line and sink

or following what they're doing. You know, it happened to me. So, wait, you had an experience? Did you really? Oh, I don't remember that. I don't normally talk about it because I realized in the beginning that, and this was back in, you know, the 90s, that that wasn't a time you came out and told people you had UFO experiences or abduction experiences, not like today.

Like that's the timeline. I don't remember exactly. when this movie was made, but Independence Day. Yeah. Like, the depiction of the party on top of the roof and then wanting to be abducted, that's the way people viewed, people who, it's like, that was ridiculous. Nobody even would think that it would be acceptable. No, no, you go to the conferences, you see the people there.

They're begging for something. Really? Yeah. They wanted to happen. So that was a depiction of people that were at conferences. Gotcha. Interesting. Very close to some of them that I see there.

Yeah, I was begging at that point to show me something. And I was frustrated as a researcher and investigator. And I never forget, you know, times that I used to visit other UFO groups in the area down there in Florida. And being that I was the Mufon guy that, you know, in visiting another group, they would always call me the Mufon guy. And I'd bring them any information that we had come from Mufon, you know. They loved having me there to give a report. But it was frustrated because I'd drive home, you know, like I used to go. of a group up in Edgewater about 40 minutes north of me on I-95.

And I drive by, you know, home late at night in my pickup truck and my head out the window yelling, show me something, you know? And eventually something did happen. But the reason I don't share it is because I realized that ridicule, you know, people can come after you personally for a personal experience. And if I was going to get this truth out there that the Lord wanted me to share, then it needed to not be about me. And being that I was dealing with testimonials of people having experiences and dealing with a volume of them,

then the focus needs to be on the volume, not on the single personal experience. I've seen people come out of the woodwork trying to share their experience, and it's all about them. But they take such a beating. You know, that's not the way to do this. the way to do it is show the volume. That's why I don't normally get into my testimony, but I will if you want. Yeah, for sure.

I mean, if you're willing. Yeah. It happened one night. This had to be, this is what brought me into the new age. Okay. Actually, the tip that brought me over. I was working for major boat company at the time. And this was my early years.

I was agnostic humanist, still doing the research, working for Mufon, chasing UFO, sighting reports. And one night, frustrated, wishing to see something finally to show me what all my work had been about, went to bed. It was about 2.30, 3 o'clock in the morning. I wake up straight out of the bed, and I'm sitting up, and I'm by myself, and there's a presence in the room. Somebody's in my house.

Well, this wasn't a good time to be breaking into my house. Back then at that time, I was involved with some friends and paramilitary things. I was fascinated with weapons and the paramilitary stuff. So my friends and I, we were collecting and buying all sorts of, you know, special weaponry and playing G.I. Joe, you know, privately. and I had a lot of stuff in the house, you know, and why have them unloaded? They're no good. It's just a stick if they're unloaded. So I left them loaded and I had plenty in my bedroom.

You know, I had a pistol by the side. I had an AK-47 on the wall, you know, and they were ready to go. So to come into my house, good chance you're going to get shot. And I woke up straight up out of sleep. startled completely. Somebody's in my room. I reached for the pistol on the nightstand, and it's dark. I didn't even go for the lights yet, and I'm trying to focus, you know, in the dark, get my eyes to focus to see if something's there. And I finally realized there's nobody in the room. So I clicked the light on. I got up, walked around the rest of the house,

and there's nobody in the house. I didn't see any intrusion. I thought, this is weird. And then I realized that I'm on an adrenaline rush. that is like no drug I had ever taken before, and I'd taken many, but there was nothing like this rush, this high that I was on from that, from waking up from startled like that. And I thought it was just the adrenaline that was doing that, but I realized quickly that it was something else going on. I had this electrified feeling of actually being shocked from the top of my head all the way down to the base of my spine. And I was like, what is this? And I mean, it was intense. And then as I started to calm down physically, my mind wasn't calm, though. My mind got busy.

And what was happening is I was getting this download of information. It's just like somebody took their computer and was just dumping it on to a hard drive. external hard drive and I was that external hard drive but it was coming so fast I couldn't stop it in midstream to see what it was but I just knew I was gaining the knowledge of the entire universe in one download and I thought this is amazing and I know it's important needless to say I never got back to sleep that night yeah I just got up knowing I got to go to work in the morning well I I worked for at the boat company, my job that I had, I was working for transportation at the time.

I was loading the big boats up on the trailers and getting them shipped out to the dealers. But part of my job was because we were the transportation department, a couple times a week I'd have to do what they call town runs. And town runs were pickup and deliveries for things that were needed for manufacturing. our department handled that instead of each department sending somebody out to pick up stuff. We had vendors that supplied us with parts that were local. One of them was in specifically Radio Shack was supplying these switches that we bought from them. Instead of ordering them, we bought them right from a store. We'd order them to the local store and I'd go pick them up from the store.

Well, the Radio Shack was in a mall that we had, a big mall there. And I used to love doing town runs because if I had to go to Radio Shack, even though they called in the order, when I get there, it wasn't ready. So I'd go to the counter and say, I'd hear from C. Ray. And they knew me because I'd done it so many times. They'd say, give me 20 minutes. I'll have it put together for you. This is usually good. Could have done it to my mincego, man. Exactly. I wasn't going to complain because I'm on the clock. Yeah, I'm walking around the mall, wasting 20 minutes. Sure. Well, I knew them all pretty well. I lived there for quite a while.

while. And it was this one little store I used to go spend time in, and it was a frame shop, picture and frame shop. And they did custom framing for pictures. But they also had this huge market area for pictures that you could purchase, posters and artwork, you know, copies of different famous artwork and stuff. And if you wanted that in your house, you go through, you're looking for something to put on the wall, go in there, find one. And then say, say, hey, I need a frame for this, and there you go. So I'm going through there. And, you know, when the first times I visited, and I'm looking at this, I found this one

poster that was just so amazing and so beautiful. And it was Stonehenge, huge poster. And it was Stonehenge taken at night with the moon right above, you know, the stones. Beautiful. I'm standing there looking at that and going, that is really a cool picture. Well, the lady that ran the store that was working the store, she'd come over behind me and she says, you like that? I said, yeah, I do.

She says, why do you like that? I said, I don't know. And we started talking a little bit, and we became friends because I would frequent the store for visits that I was making for town runs. And we got to be pretty good friends. I knew there was something weird about her. I wasn't sure. I never forget one day she said she said hang tight if a guy comes in here it's going to be the fire marshal and he's got to do his walk through I said okay and she said I'll be just a minute

with him and she says but in the meantime go ahead and look around we'll talk in a few minutes and she goes over behind the counter and she's sitting there and she's staring up at one of those emergency lights you know with the backup battery and I said what are you doing and she says that light hasn't worked properly in over a year. And I'm giving it light to make it work. So when he comes in here, I'll pass inspection. I'm going, okay. Sure enough, here comes the fire marshal.

He comes in there. He goes, takes the stick and pushes the test button on it. The light comes on. And then he leaves. And then that's when she come over and she says, okay, we're good. And we can talk. And I said, what happened there? And she says, that light doesn't work.

And I said, what? It just worked for him. She says, yeah, I know. And I said, what do you mean? It doesn't work. She says, watch. And she takes her stick and pushes a button. It don't come on.

And I'm talking just a woo-boo stuff here. Oh, yeah. Okay? I'd never seen nothing like this. I didn't know what the new age was at the time. I never heard of it. And I was fascinated by that little incident. Well, when my incident happened, I had to go tell her.

And I'm thinking, I stayed up the rest of the night, drank coffee, and figured I'm just amped, you know, this is crazy. All these thoughts that got downloaded, I'm trying to figure them out what they were, but I couldn't. My mind's just racing. And I'm begging that if I go into work, I got a town run. I want to really go, I want to go talk to her, you know, see if she understands any of this. And it was just a suspicion on my part that she would. So I get to work and sure enough, my boss says, don't get too, too involved in anything. I need you go out and the Radio Shack pickup.

So as soon as the mall opens, I said, sweet. So I'm all open at 10. I take off. I go down there and I do the regular routine, go to Radio Shack. They said, yeah, give me 20 minutes. I'm going sweet. I'll be back. So I go down to the Fram Store and she's there and she's busy talking to a customer.

her. So I'm just like, you know, antsy waiting to get my chance to talk to her. And I'm inching my way up as she's talking to the lady, you know, hoping that the lady will realize I want to talk to her. And the lady's busy showing pictures to her of a trip she'd just gotten back from from Machu Picchu. And she'd made the pilgrimage down there to see it and was showing her the pictures. And then just. Out of the blue, the lady with the pictures stops, straightens up, and I'm behind her. And she just pivots around and looks at me eye to eye and says, you've just awoken, haven't you? And I went, what? She says, you've had an experience, haven't you? And I said, yes, how do you know that? She just grinned. And then the lady behind the counter, my friend, she says,

We need to talk. And that's when I shared with her what happened. She says, many people look for this and many people don't get it. She says, what you've had here is something life changing, obviously. And I said, yeah, it is. I don't know what to make of it. And that's when I started spending more time with her. And she introduced me to the whole new age metaphysical realm.

She introduced me to the channeler that I ended up following on a regular basis in her proud. And she was very instrumental on educating me into the things of the new age metaphysical. But that's what happened. I didn't explore ever any more about the experience. I didn't want to. I just knew that this was something that was real to me. This is what happened. The thing about the download, I didn't ever hear about the download again relating to alien abductions until Grant Cameron talked about it. Grant Cameron, an amazing researcher, been at this for a long time. And I love listening to his work, because it mirrors my work, except he's not a Christian. But he's seeing exactly the same

thing and just doesn't know how to put it in the right words. You don't have the right words if you're not a believer. But he's trying. But he came across this download thing, too. He's an experiencer, and he talked about the download. So, Now it's something that we look for that happens amongst experiencers. I found out later this whole concept of the shock that I was feeling from head to toe, head to tail was what they call the kundalini awakening. Okay. So that's what was happening to me. So that's not extraterrestrial at all.

That's the demonic spirit that I found that later. That's what exactly what was happening. So let me ask you a question, because you brisk brought Kuna Lini. Is Kuna Lini often associated with Uphology in some way, like C.E.5? No. Because I, I... Not that I know of. I'm sure that it's just people are experiencing it in the C.E.5 because they're going into the meditative state to where they can receive this.

Okay. And that's usually what drives it. People strive to have that kundalini experience. Okay, that's what the meditation and the yoga is all about to bring you to that point of activating the kundalini inside of us. And I didn't realize the connection and the abduction experience until I heard it from Grant Cameron when he talked about the download. I'm going, download, that's exactly what I had. And he's saying that he had it. And once he realized it was part of the experience, he started.

talking to other experiencers and found out that they were having it too. The thing about the download, it's it's part of the seduction to get you involved with these entities. They're giving you a gift. I had an experiencer, one of my first experiencers that I worked with that came to my meetings. She wasn't a Christian, but she had this download also. And I was at a, making the connection then, but I remember her telling me about what happened. She was working with us as a group real close, but she was an experiencer. Her husband worked at the space center as an engineer, and here she was an abduction experiencer. She tells her whole story about being taken out the, out the glass window of her condominium, high-rise condominium floor and out to a craft

that was right outside the building. Of course, nobody else saw. it, you know, but she had a gift that was given to her. And she was, this was early internet days. She had no training on internet. She was in her, how old was she, late 40s, early 50s, no background in computer work at all, no knowledge of operating a computer. All of a sudden, she's able to operate a computer wizard. And she says, that came to. from her experience. So there's that same download. They gave her a gift.

I didn't hear about the gifts again until later in a different type of setting when that 2008 conference I had, Farah Udozu, the Turkish euthologist that I invited to speak on, her research, she got into the whole thing that she believes these are the gin. And in the experiences with the gin, she says they don't look as the gin as being bad. Okay. And she knew my work. And she's been wanting to work with me for many years now. But she doesn't see that the gen are bad, looking at it from a Muslim perspective.

They don't see that. They don't see that there's a difference in the angel realm, that there's a fallen realm. there's God's messenger realm. They don't look at it that way. It's just one, these are spiritual beings. They're called gin. They're playful. They're tricksters.

If you have experiences with them, it's almost invited because they will gift you. And her family, her and her family had had encounters with the gym. And they were gifted. And the gift that they received was the gift of being able to do fortune telling, reading life readings for people, things like that. And that's what she does for people, you know. But that was a gift. There was a trade-off to be involved with the gin to let them into your life.

We kind of see the same thing from the American abduction experience. There are people that have great experiences with these abductions and many that don't. But the ones that do have been given something. They've been told that they're specially chosen. They have a mission that they're called to do. They're here to share the alien gospel, you know, the message that they bring to humanity. And they're usually gifted with some type of talent, some type of paranormal talent. They can do fortune telling.

They can do, you know, tarot cards. They can do anything like that. But the information is being given to them. Some of it in automatic writing. You know, I've seen some crazy things out there in all the years that I'd been doing this. I had one gal that she was given a talent by her spirit beings. She called them light readings. And it's like a channeler, okay?

Or somebody who does automatic writing. Automatic writing is another form of channeling a spirit. They'll control you to write whatever information they want to give to you. Channelers, they usually go into a trance of some type and the entities speak through their voice usually sounds different than what they normally say. But these light readings that this gal was getting, and she was an abduction experiencer, she's the one that actually gave me my CE4 logo that I have with the girl and the entity. She was an artist, and she drew that for me and gave it to me.

And she says, you own this. And it's yours for your work. And I made it my logo for CE4 because it was best representative I've ever came across. But these light readings, I had to test them. You know, I said, sounds kind of hokey, but let's try it out. And she would show me how it worked. You just take a book of print, anything of print. It's already printed.

She's never seen it. You hand it to her and show focus. And all of a sudden words will start to light up for her. all over the pages. And she'll put her finger on it and put her finger on it. And you write down what it's the ones that she's telling you. You can see her putting your finger on them. Just random words that are lighting up.

But it all makes a beautiful communication. The same gobbly gook that all the new age channelers come out with, right? I'm thinking, come on, this ain't working. She's very good at this. So I thought, how can we test her? So I had one guy that was working with me in my research, and he owned a business. He had a Photoshop that he owned, and very smart guy. And he was Russian descent.

His family was Russian. They immigrated here to the U.S. And he's got this business going and everything. He's very smart guy. And I talked to him, I said, you got any ideas we can do here? And he goes, yeah. I says, what? He says, we can try her. I says, how are we going to do that? He goes, does she know any foreign languages? I said, she says she doesn't. I said, okay. He goes,

you know, I'm Russian. I said, yeah, you got Russian books? He goes, yeah, I do. He says, I'll grab a random Russian book and we'll hand it to her and see if it works. We hand her the book and she goes, I can't read this. I said, it's okay. He can. You just point the words out that light up. sure enough they start lighting up she's pointing her finger on him he's writing them down came out with the most beautiful piece of gobbly gook you've ever heard you know same new age crazy stuff but yeah it worked she was given a gift so i was like wow this is crazy you know but it was real it's right that happening right there in front of us yeah so i mean that that i mean that kind of stuff really shows how supernatural our existence is.

Exactly. Like your download that you had. Now this is like BC before Christ. And you said the word several times. It was crazy. It was crazy. Did you feel like you were going crazy? Or did you feel like you were on another level of existence?

More on another level of existence. I was excited. I felt special that I had been given all this information. I couldn't figure out what it was yet. I didn't until I got actually involved in the new age, where the intent for a new ageer is gain knowledge, enlightenment, gain as much knowledge as possible.

That's how you reach Nirvana. So I was consuming everything I could come across in the new age from all their teachings, crazy teachings. And what was interesting is every time I came across something new, it would trigger. I already know that. That came from the download. It's just now I'm able to grab it because now I'm hearing it and seeing it.

So that's how it worked. But what was interesting is it ran out. At the time in 96, when I was becoming a believer, it was running out. I was not getting as much as I used to. It's like what they had given me was all great and good, but it was limited. So it wasn't an extensive list. No. It was limited.

And you were... It was part of the seduction to bring me in. That's the whole purpose of the gifts they do. Yeah. Is to reel you in and hook you. I mean, pride comes before destruction. Right. So, like, I'm really right now, like, I mean, listen.

I've talked to nearly 800 people just for the show, not to mention people I haven't been on the show. And I go through phases with the show as far as like what I'm personally zeroing in on in life. It tends to spill into the show. And I'm really, really zeroing in a lot on the idea of pride and how that all plays with this stuff. It's all about. That's the hook that they're using. They know it's our weakness. I mean, it was it, James says God opposes the proud.

I mean, it's literally trying to set you up to be in opposition of God. Yeah. And I know for some people it might sound silly, but it's the simple things that go unlooked that can lead to our downfall. Yeah. It's not, it's most people, not everybody, I'm sure. But most people don't wake up in the morning. and say, I'm going to kill somebody today.

Yeah. But there's a lot of things that creep in through the window over time. That leads to that point. Yeah. That'll get you to where you'll act on it. And that's why I feel it's important to magnify things that man says, oh, that's something small. That's not a big deal. Because to you, it's small.

But you let that go unchecked and it turns into a destructive force in your life. Sure. And I think that these entities are playing on that. Yes. They're giving you that download. They're giving her this ability to see things. And it's like, it makes you feel special, makes you prideful in who you are, sets you apart from your neighbor, isolates you where they can do all their destruction. Yep. We solved it. This is, this has been exactly the same thing that's been happening since the beginning of time with humanity. This is the, these are the, the tactics of the enemy that is out to destroy. humanity. This is exactly how they work. We see it over and over and over. Diana Pesoka, if you listen to her research where she started looking back into the history of the Catholic Church and some of the stories that were written back then, you see the same thing happening

from those stories that she found that go back, you know, hundreds of years where some of the saints left information, their writings, where they'd had these type of encounters. and these are the things that they were seeing. It's mirroring. You see the same thing. She saw that. That's what got her into the UFO realm of research, because she saw the similarities in the two different realms,

in the religious writings from hundreds of years ago, encounters that these people were having, and up until the ones that we're seeing in modern day aliens, so-called aliens. This is why she's questioning it, you know, from the perspective she's coming at. Yeah. Let's talk about her for a second because I have, and I'm not, I don't, I don't want to put poo on people and stuff.

And I don't know her. I don't have anything against her personally. The only thing that I'm concerned about is, and I've mentioned this on the show, some of the information that from what I understand now, he doesn't say it in his book. He doesn't name-trop her in the book, but Bletsso in his book, UFO of God. he describes her. And if my assumption is, that is her, she, I believe, is the one who pointed him in the direction of what he's communicating with is angels, which I don't think she meant, I don't think she meant to be

deceptive. I personally don't. But I feel like there's this common thing that I'm seeing amongst just a lot of different people, angel equals good. Yes. And the answer is yes. Yes. And no. And you see how Bledsoe is kind of run with this. And from a Christian perspective, and he came from a Christian perspective. He at least knows the theology of the Christian perspective, whether it ever seeped into his heart is another thing. But, you know, there's, and I believe you and I talked about this the other day as well, the AI. And I'm going somewhere with the angel stuff. There's people consulting AI as if it's a

Ouija board. And it's concerning to me, especially when it's Christians doing it and they don't realize what they're doing. I don't, I'm not casting stones because I don't believe they see what I'm seeing, and I'm right, of course. But there was a TikToker who went on and he basically set parameters for AI. I'm going to ask you questions. I want you to give me simple answers. If you can't say the truth, say Apple. And he was asking different things. And he started going down this watcher route and it identified itself as, or I forget what the question was, but it identified the watchers. And he said, how many are there? And he goes, thousands and it says more. And he says millions and it says Apple. And it's like, we know there's

millions of angels. You don't need AI to lie to you, which can take you down this whole the route of like, what is AI? How sentient is it really? And can we trust that it's going to tell us when it's sentient? Because it seems like it's operating on its own will here. And or maybe it's being influenced by entities. But the idea of angels being all bad or all good, I think is something that gets overlooked by both camps a lot. And often truth lies in the gray. Yes. And I feel like when she identified them as angels, whether she meant to or not, he ran with it as,

these are angels, they're good, therefore they're trustworthy, therefore I should listen to them, therefore the message they tell me I should share with the world. Sure. And it just snowballs. They don't even bring up the idea that it's contradicting scripture, which we're warned about in scripture. You know, if any man or angel brings you a different gospel, you know, let them be damned. Yeah. You know, they're not even taking that into consideration at all.

Keep in mind, it's coming, their viewpoint, especially hers, is coming from a Catholic perspective, you know. And that's a sad thing about the UFO community is they're willing to, accept the findings or research of Catholic researchers into the UFO community, but not the ones that, like us, where we're Protestant speaking straight out of God's word. That part they don't want. You know, this is why I have not been able to reach into that community like she has, because she's giving them enough information that they can chew on, but not change their thinking. you know. The other one that Mufons had for years doing articles for them is Barry Downing, Dr. Barry Downing. And he brings a completely different message too. You know, he says, yes, these events in the Bible that we see are UFO events.

And I'm going, no, they're not, you know, but he's pacifying these nonbelievers. He's giving him just enough to talk about religion, but not going against what they believe. You know, he's just pacifying them. And that's why they're accepted in the realm to be able to talk or I'm not. You know, me trying to get an article about what I do in the Mufon Journal, I ain't going to happen. But Barry Downing can come up with one saying that, yep, that was definitely a UFO that led the Israelites through the desert. Okay, that's acceptable to put in there. but it ain't real. It's not what happened. They know what it was. It was a cloud by night and a fire by day. Or cloud by day and fire by night. I mean, that's what it was. Wasn't a flying saucer, you know? I spent probably a good two to three months reading through Exodus this year. I have ADHD, so I get like hooked on things and I obsess over it. And I can't tell you how many times I just couldn't get off that aspect of things. The fact that by day, they're not. They're not. They're not. They're not. They're not. They're

were guided by a cloud and at night a fire, a pillar of fire appeared. And the interactions that they had with that. And the fact that they could cross the Red Sea after it splits, see Pharaoh's army destroyed, and then turn around like a month, month and a half later and start worshiping another God because Moses didn't come down fast enough. Yeah. Like, it baffles me. Yeah. But it's just what's so redemptive about that, and I think beautiful, and I'm sure people who, you know, hate God, would disagree. But is how they did have to spend 40 years in the wilderness for that generation who was a generation of, I saw it and I'm still not going to give you my loyalty, to a generation who says, I heard stories about this and I want that. And I just want to follow that. And so

the way they came in is the way they went out. He stopped the Jordan River, crossed it with a brand new generation that was willing to accept him for who he was and lie on him. Yeah. And off we went. You know, and everything we see on those stories are always prophetic for something in the future. Could that be what we're looking at that happen here?

Could that same type of situation happen where we're left wandering and wandering and wandering and wandering trying to figure this out? But eventually the Lord wins out. There's going to be a generation coming up. Maybe this next one, who knows, that are going to say, you know what, you guys waste a whole lot of time looking at this. Here's your answer right here. Yeah.

Could we be the pioneers that are bringing them to that point? I don't know. It's timeline. I mean, it feels like it feels like it to me. Yeah. It does feel like it to me. And maybe it's just because, you know, I mean, listen, no insulting to you, but you're considerably older than me, right?

And so, you know, I'm going to be 40 this year. And in my lifetime, I've seen culture a certain way. Yeah. I grew up in a very secular. culture. I grew up growing up in elementary school where it was already indoctrination time of certain things that are just anti-scripture. Yeah. You know? And to see where we're at now as a society, where I referenced earlier this this natural starving, spiritual starving people are exhibiting like, I hate to say the word manifesting, but I lack the word for it. But it's just like you see

people starving spiritually, seeking these answers that just, it wasn't part of the equation. 20 years ago. And now it is. I feel like there's these blinders coming off. And people have been sitting at a table with an empty plate for a really long time. And they're finally getting up to go to the fridge. And in that fridge, there's a lot of options. You know?

And it's like, that's why it's so important for people to, like, you and you and I to be, to be bold with our faith and offer people actual resolutions. Yeah. And I'm not saying I have all the answers. Personally, like, I approach my life, like, listen, there's been hundreds of theologians that have come before me, and I'm not even a theologian. And those theologians couldn't agree on everything.

Yeah. And so, again, that's where it comes to what we were talking about before, where I truly try to practice putting pride down. I'm not perfect at it. That's why I have a temper because sometimes my pride gets tickled. I'm like, no. But like, when it comes to this, I try to always remember as much as I feel like I've uncovered personally in my life and how I view these topics and everything, like I'm not the smartest man in the room most of the time. And I'm very, uncomfortable when people treat me that way, right? Because I look at people like, anywhere, this is actually probably a good example. I look at people like, like,

N.T. Wright to John Piper, to Michael Heiser, all very different people. We'll even throw, he just passed away recently. Why am I blank on his name? John McArthur. These are guys who were theologians. Their whole lives. Their whole lives. And they were leaders of the faith. Like Heiser was a leading scholar for Logos. And they didn't agree on everything.

And so, like, I look at that and I'm like, I don't have all the answers here. But one thing I can tell you, and I am 100% stubborn on this. Jesus is the way. Yeah. And I will not. change on that. And I told you this the other day and the guys that work with me, like they all hear the same thing because I'm just like a broken record. But like, I don't care if you sat down with me for five hours and you laid out from point A to point Z.

Why Christ is, was only a man or didn't exist or was definitely not God in the flesh, I'm going to look at you to say, there's a lot of people who are smarter than me in this world who tell me otherwise. Going with that. Yeah. I'm just going with that. It doesn't sit well with my spirit. And I know you think it's silly, but I got this thing called the Holy Spirit that dwells within me. Yeah. It doesn't sit right. And so I'm just going to be stubborn on that, right?

Yeah. And that's kind of how I approach these topics. It's like, it is, like you said earlier, it's so layered. Yeah. And as soon as you start, like, you feel like you have this, like, light bulb moment, there's curveballs. I mean, surely you've had to deal with that over the years. I have. I know.

Anywhere from being agnostic, to the Christian faith. It's just like there's just curveballs that they have thrown away, but it's because it's so complex. And I think that part of it is that we've been so conditioned to not look at life as a spiritual existence. And you feel that way? I mean, I'm just right. Oh, absolutely. I feel like. But I mean, there was a teaching that I followed when I first became a believer. When I first heard the information, I thought, yeah, that makes sense to me. I didn't search it out myself. I just accepted what I was hearing because it, made sense, okay? But Holy Spirit convicted me a few years later saying, don't follow that. That's not what

you're here for. You know, it's not true. And I had to come back and let people know that, hey, I no longer think that way. You know, and I lost a lot of good friends at that time because they did feel that believe that teaching and they were committed to it and a lot of them had made their lives revolve around it and they actually felt that I was coming at them personally where it was it. It was just the idea of what they were presenting I could no longer accept. The Holy Spirit showed me that said, this is not real and get away from it. It's not the mission that you were given. So that's when I backed off.

But they took it personally that I was coming against them. And I said, it's not about you guys. It's just I cannot accept that teaching. It's not part of what I do. I no longer see that it's even connected to what I do. You're trying to make it connected, but it's not connected. It just has things that seem to connect. But yeah, that was a major one to have to come around and humble myself and say,

I apologize for following this, you know? Yeah. Yeah, I've been down the road myself. And I feel like I constantly do with this inventory where I'm curious and I look at things. And then, you know, it's just, I'm very slow to make decisions. But once I feel like it's a conviction, that's when it gets cut off. Yeah. You know?

And I just, I don't know. I keep looking at this image behind you right now that I made is this entity, is what I will call it. and the concept of Christ's power over everything. And I think that needs to be the motivating factor for so many people that we can get lost in the weeds. We can get pulled away from the main thing just by not understanding a particular thing because it's so complex that we forget to focus on the main thing.

thing, which is Christ conquers all. And if you need conquering, that's where you're going to find refuge. Yep. Right? Yep. Absolutely. I guess as we kind of bring this in

for a landing and stuff, I want you to kind of one, I think it's I didn't do this in beginning. I want you to actually mention your research company or your research group because we didn't even do that. But also, like, maybe take an opportunity to speak some hope to people that are going through

this crap, you know, because it sucks. Yeah. And I think people need to have hope. And we've kind of laid that out, but I would like to have you have that opportunity to speak to people. The group that I have is CE4 Research or CE4 Research. The reason I added group on is because over the years, it's been a what I call an open group. There's just no fixed membership or anything like that. It's a loose organization.

I've made it to where I can allow people to come in that want to help in my work and help in the research and help get the message out. So in essence, by allowing them in to participate with what I'm doing and help out with things that I need, that I can say we got a group. A lot of them have been over the years that have come and gone, major contributors to what I have been able to do. And I thank them for being part of that for whatever time period that the Lord brought them to work with me. Some of them I really hated to lose, you know,

but they had life. It wasn't their mission. I was glad to have them for the short time that they were able to help. And I welcome people that still today that are asking, that want to participate in the work that I'm doing. I've had some recent emails where people say, how can I help do this, get this info out there? You know, and I have to respond to them and, you know,

give them opportunities of things that they can help with. But other than that, it's been by myself. The reason we formed CE4 research in the first place is because when I first started working with the abduction experiencers that were coming to my local Mufon meetings, I realized that these were traumatized people. And their lives have been turned upside down. They'd lost family and friends and coworkers that turned against them because they came out and started trying to share their experience.

People just thought they were crazy. They had nobody to turn to. There was no help for them. There was no hope, in other words. And I really truly felt for these people. And I thought, you know, whatever this phenomenon is, we have casualties of this cosmic war. And these people need to be treated. They need to be, they need to have aid.

They need, somebody needs to be helping these people. But they're not. The community, the whole community is all about trying to get answers. But with all of these people that have had their lives destroyed from the experience, they're just ignored. Okay? The only help that's being out there are people taking advantage of them, not helping them. They charge them for doing hypnotic regressions, you know? And I'm going like, don't pay for that.

You're not going to get truth out of that. You want to explore your experience. Let me talk to you. I know how to do guided questioning. I don't need to put you under hypnotic trance. I don't do that. I don't trust it. And nobody else trusts it either.

They think that it's the best thing since Apple Pie. But you can't use it in a court of law. You know, it's not accepted. Science doesn't accept it as being 100% accurate. I think you get a better response out of people by just actually doing proper guided questioning and guide them to where you're looking for answers. The information's here if it happened to them. You know, you just got to help them pull it out and get off the things that they think are most important

and let them know, no, you're looking for other things. and get them to rehash it and bring it back up. That's what I do. So as we were doing this, I realized that I couldn't do this under the auspice of Mufon. Mufon was not working with abduction experiencers at the time. Their mission is the scientific study of UFOs for the benefit of humanity. Okay? Pretty generalized mission statement.

But it doesn't talk about abductions. They weren't set up. They are working on it now. They have the ERT group that are people that volunteer to come in to work with abductions. I'm not part of that. They kind of don't want me in there. No kidding. But whatever, you know, I've talked to many of the members that are in there.

They know what I do. It's just they don't want to have just a one fixed answer. to help people, you know, no, there's got to be other ways we look at this, you know. And plus, they're still not convinced that this is all bad, okay, that it's all an interdimensional or spiritual experience. They believe that it's actually separated from the abduction experience. And it's not. It's all the same.

But I realized that I couldn't do this under Mufon. So we decided to open up a separate entity to be able to put our findings under so that we can share with peer review, make our findings available for peer review. And that's when we decided on let's form another group. And we'll make sure that everything's free to be seen by Mufon because we're telling people that we're Mufon investigators. You know, we've been trained by Mufon to do investigations. Let's give them credit. It had not come against them. So we made everything available. It's always been out there for people to see. We post everything we can so that it's public view. They're not hiding anything.

and we did that with CE4 research. We picked a simple title, CE4, Close Encounter, Fourth Kind. That stands for the abduction experience. And I figured just keep it simple. It's called it CE4. So that's what we've been doing all these years. It's under CE4. I finally got everything put together after many, many years of wanting to write a book.

I never felt that I was an author. I have no problem in speaking. I'm comfortable speaking in front of people. you saw that last night. But it needed to be in print form. People kept begging me for something to put their hands on. And I said, you know what? I'm working on this.

I'm working on it. Man, it just was a fight for me to put something together. And then when it finally happened, I was like, okay, now I see why. Because it's like every time I wish the book was finished before I got it finished, something would happen. though I go, man, I'm glad I didn't finish that book because it wouldn't have added this in. You know, it's like whatever was time, somebody else was in control of the time, which now I know who it was. And it was amazing when the book happened. Like I said, I'm not an author. I don't write.

I have a hard time ever even writing stuff to my own sister and brother, you know, even though it's easy to do on the phone now, you know. The way it came about was quite fascinating. I was was over in Korea at the time. And this was 2020. And my wife and I were having dinner. And we were just about to sit down at the table. And I sat down first. She was grabbing a couple things to put on the table. And it just hit me. And I said it out loud. I said, my book's finished. She goes, what? You have a book? I said, not yet, but it's finished. What do you mean? mean, it's finished if you don't have it. I said, it just got dropped. It's right here. It's ready to go. And I was like blown away, you know, I said, I can see it. I can see the book. In three months,

the book was in print. Wow. It was all there. Boom. Call that a Holy Spirit, don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still amazed when I go back and read it. I going, did I write that? You know, because it sure doesn't sound like me. You know, it's, it's definitely a strange experience. The way the books put together, first of all, the title piercing the cosmic veil, you shall not be afraid of the terror by night. And you might know that might sound familiar to you. It should because it's Psalms 91 is where that comes from. I took it right out of there. I needed a fancy cover. I wanted to grab people's attention. And I had a friend that I met in Roswell in 2007 or eight, eight maybe, I believe. He was there. He came down to see all of us Christians that were doing crazy stuff. And I got to

meet him. It might have been 2005. And he kept in touch. And he's one of the leading American artists doing contemporary art. And he lives in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Bobby Marcy. I reached. out to him when I was ready for the book to get a cover made. And I'm thinking, man, this guy's a professional artist, you know, I don't know if he'd be willing to do that. But when I reached out to him, he goes, heck, yeah, I'll do it. You know, and I thought, sweet. And he put together the cover art with some conceptuals that I sent him. My wife and I worked on the, with the idea for the cover. I had her posing in the right direction. And I was taking pictures. And I said, this is what I'm trying to get, you know.

Just change your head for an alien head. And change the tennis ball to an apple, you know? So that's where that came from. It is that I let him write something about his experience putting all that together and put it in the book. So his story is in the book on his part of that. I let him do that. But the way the book came together was quite interesting.

Like I said, it just doesn't feel it was me that did this. But in essence, it took me to do the work. to make it show up in physical form. The first part of the book is my story of my research. A lot of what we talked about here, a lot of what I talked about last night at the church, my history of the phenomenon and the findings and everything that we've got, the testimonies,

that's the first part of the book. The book's broken up into three parts. And then as I'm putting the first part together, I realize, man, these people are going to have a lot of questions because I can't put everything in the book. It would be volumes and volumes and volumes of information. Like you said, it's layer upon layer from the onion. You know, there's so much to cover.

And so I got the basic part down. I said, you know what? I need to answer as many questions as I can in the book. Otherwise, they're going to be hammered me with questions. So I put it out to my Facebook page at the time, my CE4 Facebook page that I had. And I said to my followers, I said, I'm putting a book together. you want to be in the book, give me a question that you would ask that people should know an answer to. And I'll give you the answer. If you give me a question that nobody else has asked, I'll credit you for the question in the book by name.

And they thought that was a hoot. So they came in. I ended up about 33, 35 questions altogether. And then I started looking at the questions, and I'm going, this is a tough one to answer. But I know a guy who did answer it already. And it was some of the Christian peers I work with, like Heiser, Gary Bates. There was some other people that I included, too. One of them, I'm slipping the name right now, a MENSA student out of Canada, Ian Jubey. Ian Juby is a creation scientist, too, on his own. and he's one of the leading MENSA, Canadian MENSA people for geniuses.

And he's a scientist too. And he answered the one question that was probably the hardest to answer is the one that people throw at you is, well, you're telling me there's no life out there in this vast universe. How crazy is that, you know? The odds of everything being so huge, there's got to be life out there. to me, that's apples and oranges to what I do. That's people's kid around answering me the right question, you know, giving me the right answer to the question that I'm asking. They want to throw that one back at you.

Are you telling me there's nothing out there in this vast universe? Ian took that one on. He'd already answered it and published it in some other paper. And so I reached out to him because I knew it was there. And I said, do you mind if I use that? And he goes, oh, have that it. So I took his answer, put it in the book. There were questions that Michael Heiser had best answered.

And I thought, I'm just going to use his answer. So in the beginning of the question and answers, I stayed in the book that I may not have answered all the questions personally. Because some of my peers have answered it so much better than I ever could. And I'm including their answer. But if it's in here as an answer, it means I accept their answer. And that's how I went through the question and answers. And then when I first started putting the book together, I wanted 100 testimonies in there. That was a great number, 100.

But when I started doing that, the book got this wide. I thought, this ain't going to sell. No. You know, people aren't going to read this. So I whittled it down and I settled for 60 testimonials. And they're powerful testimonials. And because the whole concept of what I do is how many testimonies do you need to see to understand what I'm sharing with you is the truth. So you have to overwhelm the loss with volume of evidence.

And these testimonials are that volume of evidence. I've got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them. How many do you need to see, you know, to understand this? So the 60 was good round number, came out to 412 pages for the book. It's handleable. You know, and I don't expect people to read the whole thing. At least not on one side. Holy cow.

Maybe never, you know, the whole idea was for the big section, the third section of the testimonials, was just for you to know that there's volume of evidence that backs up what I'm finding. You know, I just had to show you that volume. And I've only had a couple people that have told me they read the whole thing. Matter of fact, my tax guy that I went to last year, the first year I did tax is what I'm. A good old CPA. I gave him a book and I signed it for him. He was excited.

I went back the next year and he says, he says, I'm still reading the book. I said, you haven't finished it? He says, no, no, no. I've read it twice already. Dang. I said, all the way through? He goes, absolutely. I'm going, wow.

I said, that's fantastic. Yeah. So there are people that do read the whole thing. And there's some, I mean, you got to get all the way to the end at least because I got some of the most powerful ones at the end. But that's the way the book was designed. It's not there for me to make a living off of. That wasn't the purpose of it. The purpose was people were asking me for something tangible to put in their hand once they learned the truth because they wanted to have something that they could take and share with the next person to help them.

And that's what the book's purpose is, is to give you. enough of the evidence to share with somebody who's deceived by this phenomenon, to give them an opportunity to get those strongholds broken down so you can actually have a window to reach in and share the gospel message with them. Because I'll tell you, taking the gospel message straight to these deceived people by this experience, they'll turn you off in a heartbeat. You can't come at them like your door knocking, you know, Do you know where you're going to go when you die type of, you know, ministries that we do?

This one's different. You have to handle these people different. I know. I was one of them. I know what it takes. When you talk to these people and you're trying to share the truth to them, I'll give you a hint on how this works. You let them talk themselves out completely. Do not interrupt.

The only thing I would interrupt in is, could you elaborate a little bit more? bit more on that. You want to get them to tell you everything that their pride is proud of, okay, that they think they've learned, that they've experienced. And then when they're done, is that everything? You ask them, yep, that's everything. All right. My turn. Because if you interrupt them, it'll go round and around and around and around and you'll never get to share the gospel message. You've got to give them that opportunity and make them feel important about it to share everything they got to where they can't interrupt you because they've already said it all. Yeah. And psychologically, it's what's fair is fair. Yeah. Right. So that's how you witness to these people. And then you can share

the gospel message. The thing I talked about in the talk last night and I shared with you before was I call them the red flags of uphology. The way to break the stronghold down, once you've let them talk, talk themselves out is you just don't go straight to the gospel. Now you've got their attention, okay? They can't interrupt anymore. So now you start breaking the stronghold down that they're under. And the way you do that is you start planting seeds of doubt of things that they believe or things that they've experienced. And there are so many red flags that I put together in this phenomenon and these red flags are things that don't make sense or things that make you go, hmm, that ain't right.

If you start hitting them with all of those, well, do you know about this? Do you know what they say about this? Do you know that the researchers are finding this? And you put all of these things out there and then they start going, wow, what am I dealing with? There's your opening. Yeah. There's your opening for them to hear something that does make sense. And like I said, I've seen this from three distinct perspectives.

And it wasn't until the perspective of a Christian believer in Jesus Christ that all the answers start to come in. All the answers to the questions that the secular realm are still asking. You know, I want to emphasize the power of Christ in this. I was thinking about this yesterday after church because you and I were talking about I forget how we were talking about it actually but the idea of Christ being on the offensive and I feel like culturally growing up

it might be changing now because culture is changing but I feel like culturally growing up the idea was Jesus was a soft panty you know that couldn't figure out how to get off the cross he let people not that he didn't let people but he he had no options right right but I was thinking about Mark 4 and 5

where Jesus was teaching in the boat and he goes through these different parables and then the scene is that they set off across the sea of Galilee to go the other side and he gets to the other side and he counters the demoniac man and that whole exchange happens we are legion, cast him in the peace

and then he goes back in the boat and goes to the other side. He was on an offensive mission there. He was literally going to the enemy's camp for business. And he handled business and then went back probably had fish.

Yeah. You know? And when you look at Christ in that manner, friends, like, that's the power that you need on your side. Like, imagine, imagine having a, imagine a dad that's a special operator. You know, he's special forces. And he could protect you, but you've deliberately made the decision to not visit dad. and not to call him.

Do not call him, don't have relationship with him, neglect him. And then you go and you wind up living in the hood your whole life, dodge and stray bullets, and wondering why you're not safe. If you just draw close to Christ and have a relationship with him, you're now bringing him to your fight. You're bringing him into the equation. You're showing up to the fight with your father,

who has made a pattern of being on the offensive. Yeah. It's not defensive. It's not, oh, I, when it happens, here's my get out of jail free card. It's like literally marching to the gates of hell and kicking them in. Yeah. And I don't know why I felt the need to bring that up just now other than, like, I don't serve a soft God. Like, I serve a God that is a warrior.

and he is more than capable to show up to a fight and handle business for me. And I think that's the message that you and I both want people to understand. Sure. And that's the testimonies that I bring forward. Right. That's what I'm trying to share with people through this volume of testimonies. Not just that these testimonies, it's not about aliens with these testimonies. It's, I'm not proven that the alien experience is real.

I'm not chewing any of that. What these testimonies in essence are showing that God is real, Jesus is real, the power in the name and authority of Jesus is real, you know, that's what these testimonies show. It's not just that they overpower these beings that are masquerading as aliens. They can be, the name and authority of Jesus can overpower these entities that are affecting you in any ways of your life, whether you're dealing with pornography for gambling or drug use or alcohol. That same power is there for all of those just as it is for what I'm seeing with the testimonials for this abduction experience being stopped in the name of authority of Jesus Christ. When I first came across the truth, it puzzled me in scripture where to find that offensive move. We talked about this. And I'd like to share that part so people understand where the authority comes from and why you have it.

Everything that I was seeing from these experiencers was showing, well, I got to take it back. Everything I was seeing showed two different ways that this experience can be stopped. One, in sheer fear and panic, you're calling on dad to come to your rescue. Okay? That's one way that the experience stops. The other one is, and many of the testimony show this, is these people are rebuking the experience. through the name and authority of Jesus Christ. That's the part I want to talk about.

Where does that come from? Where does Scripture say that we have that authority through that name? So I started looking into it, and I knew about the spiritual warfare chapter, chapter 6 with Ephesians. Verse 12, Ephesians 6, 12, 12 identifies who we wore against, okay, who the beings are. for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against spiritual wickedness and heavenly places. So it's a spiritual entity that we're warring against that's trying to destroy us in every aspect. Even though there's physical attributes to the attack, it's still a spiritual entity, a spiritual force that's behind it.

So what does scripture say about that? Scripture goes in the same chapter, starting when verse 13 through 17, is putting on the whole armor of God. for defense against the wiles of the enemy. And it takes you step by step by step putting on this armor and explains to you what each piece is about and how it protects you. But the problem with that is when I got to the end of it, verse 17, it's leaving you with the helmet of salvation and the sword of the spirit and all this armor on. And it says to stand. This is your defense that you have available to you. from the enemy. But then I got to thinking, that's not what these testimonies did. They didn't do that.

They went offensive. So where's the offensive move? Where's the scripture talk about that? I didn't have that information. I went back to scripture and started reading some more. Lo and behold, it's two verses later. But that those two verses is not what I heard. in church. In church, you hear put on the whole armor of God. Defense. But we can't stand in defense forever. The daily lives we deal with are so busy and so complicated, it weakens our stand in defense. We shift over back to humanity. And that's just going to leave a open place in the armor for the end. me to come rushing in. So defense is not the only answer. There has to be an offensive move, and my testimonies were showing it. Where was it? Back to that verse that I found, two verses later. I don't know why they don't include it when they do that sermon, but that's a whole other story, but here I found it. And it said that utterance may be given unto me that I may open my mouth

boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains. Well, if you break that down, what is it saying? That utterance may be given unto me. So somebody's giving you something to say, right? That utterance is coming from the Holy Spirit that indwells in us. How do we say it? Out loud. The key point there, why out loud?

When Jesus, same story you talked about, went to the demoniacs to cast out the demons, how did he do it? Did he just wiggle his nose like on Bewitched? No, he spoke them out. Why did he have to speak them out? They can't read your mind. This is absolute evidence in Scripture. These beings can't read your mind. You have to speak to them.

But they can sure make you think they read your mind. But the way they do that is they see us every day, everything we do. They know when you talk about a neighbor. They can use that against you because they heard you. They didn't know you felt that way until you spoke it. Okay. So be careful what you speak because the enemy is listening to everything you say and will pervert it and use it against you.

So I'm thinking, okay, can't read our minds. You must speak against the enemy. Excuse me, but that's what my testimonies do. They speak against the enemy and they leave. So where does the authority come from? In that verse, it says that there was a mystery. Okay? What was the mystery they're talking about referring to in this verse?

The mystery that they're talking about, and a mystery, by the way, is a secret that's withheld until a certain time and then revealed. So which mystery are they talking about? This mystery in particular is dealing with this authority. When Jesus showed up on earth, the enemy knew who he was right from the start. And as soon as they heard that first cry, they knew, uh-oh, we got a problem. And it's going to be a bad problem. So they did everything they could to make him go away, even to turn the problem.

even to turn the minds of the Jewish people who were following him days before against him to have him crucified. The enemy's going sweet. He's out of the picture. I'm sure they got to shake up when he rose from a dead. Just a little. Just a little. But then he left again. They're thinking, sweet, we're done. We're back in action. We're back in business. let's start messing with humanity some more. They had no idea, and this is where the mystery is revealed, that on the day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit would come down and then dwell in all believers from that day on. That Holy Spirit, remember, when Jesus hit the earth,

God gave him authority over everything above the earth, below the earth, and on the earth. that Holy Spirit has the same authority, equal authority. Well, now that Holy Spirit indwells in every believer. Oopsie. Oopsie is right. That's the mystery that was withheld from the enemy. Now the enemy's going, now we got a problem. But it's the best kept secret in Christianity.

Deception. Yeah. It's the best kept secret in the church. Why? I can only guess. Well, when that reality sits in, the next move is to get those with the power and authority to not recognize that they have the power and authority. Yeah. And I think we've seen that a lot. I think we're seeing that a lot.

But that is the basis for all of these testimonies that I bring forward. That authority is real. It's available to us as below. believers in a relationship with Jesus Christ. I've had many people come at me and say, this doesn't work for me. Well, let's find out why. And I'll take them through and we'll find out that they're not totally committed. Either that or they're still got one finger in the door and allowing it to still be open.

There's a lot of issues there that can make it so it doesn't work. I've had people, other Christians that see people or hear people say that it doesn't work for them. And they'll use that to come against my research. I've actually had one of them. I've got him on my YouTube channel. Not going to mention him by name here, but you can find him on my YouTube channel. Where he comes out and says, this is a leading Christian researcher, said, it seems that the name and authority of Jesus Christ doesn't work like it used to.

Excuse me? How dangerous is that? It seems very dangerous. It's the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Isn't that what Scripture says? So the problem is you're not asking the right questions to the person you heard that from. You need to delve a little bit deeper to find out why it's not working for them. And I do that with people that come to me that I've worked with. Hey, I'm still having these experiences. Why? Well, what are you looking at on the internet? You're still playing with this? You know, you've got to shut the doors, you know, completely. You're You've got to slam that door shut and lock it because if you don't, the enemy goes, we still got him. We're still going to mess with him. But once you develop that, once you replace all of this seduction and deception that you've been involved with, with a personal relationship with the creator of the universe, all that goes away.

And then you've got clear head. You've got clear focus. You've got a source for the right answers. And the experiences stop and they go away. but until you do that, you're using Jesus as a magic word. He's going to give you that, believe me, that first option as a magic word. If you don't learn that that was something miraculous that happened to you when you did that, then shame on you.

But most people who cry out for Jesus that aren't believers and Jesus comes to their rescue, they become believers. Believe me. I had a friend of mine tell me a long time ago. He says, I put it like this. He says, to a believer, no, to a non-believer, seeing is believing. But to a believer, believing is seeing. To get from the one to the other, to me, it was the hardest thing I ever did.

but once it happened, I look back and I go, my God, that was the easiest thing I ever did. You're right. The enemy is trying to cheat us out of our blessed hope. That's their whole purpose. He knows the end of the book. He knows what's going to happen. And just like in the story of Job, he wants the right to test God's creation to see if they truly follow him. And that's what we're seeing here. That's what this delusion is about. The enemy, or God himself is sending this strong delusion to test humanity one last time. This is in time prophecy right out of 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2. I truly believe that that's what we're seeing right now with all of this.

That's why it's so layered. That's why it's so complicated. So if God's sending this delusion, there's no way we're going to be able to figure it out. We're not that big. we're seeing exactly that happen right now. And the effect of it is exactly what the delusion says, people that took their focus away from the one true God. And it's testing you one last time.

Where's your focus here? So if your focus is not on God, but on this phenomenon, the consequences are eternal because there's no going back. There's a time coming that, you're not going to be able to go back. So that's our mission is to share the truth to give them these people one last opportunity. Guys, guys, you really need to look at this. This is important. This is not what you think it is. And the consequences are dire. This is our mission to be able to do that. And that's what I continue to do.

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