The Confessionals - 827: An Invasion of the Supernatural Realm

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

In this powerful and deeply personal conversation, Heather Z shares a powerful testimony shaped by trauma, the supernatural, and unwavering encounters with God. She recounts a near-death experience at age 14, human trafficking, and seasons of spiritual rebellion, yet through it all, God’s presence never left her. Heather describes miraculous physical healings, including a broken C1 vertebra that healed in weeks, and a long battle with hereditary kidney failure that placed her in the middle of intense spiritual warfare. That conflict escalated into a disturbing demonic manifestation through a doctor, followed by moments of divine protection and clarity. The episode culminates in a chilling face-to-face encounter with a Gray entity, where prayer and spiritual authority immediately shifted the outcome. This is a raw and sobering testimony of endurance, discernment, and the power of Christ to heal, protect, and restore.Please pray for Tony's wife, Lindsay, as she battles breast cancer. Your prayers make a difference!If you’re able, consider helping the Merkel family with medical expenses by donating to Lindsay’s GoFundMe: https://gofund.me/b8f76890Become a member for ad-free listening, extra shows, and exclusive access to our social media app: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinThe Confessionals Social Network App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZThe Counter Series Available NOW:The Counter (YouTube): WATCH HEREThe Counter (Full Episode): WATCH HERETony's Recommended Reads: slingshotlibrary.comIf you want to learn about Jesus and what it means to be saved: Click HereBigfoot: The Journey To Belief: Stream HereThe Meadow Project: Stream HereMerkel Media Apparel: merkmerch.comMy New YouTube ChannelMerkel IRL: @merkelIRLMy First Sermon: Unseen BattlesSPONSORSSIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsGHOSTBED: GhostBed.com/tonyCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] Z:Website | BookMAILING ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/theconfessionals/Discord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelProduced by: @jack_theproducerOUTRO MUSICTony Merkel - Love Knows

Hey, everyone, before we get to this week's show, this is just your weekly reminder to please continue to pray for my wife, Lindsay. She is battling breast cancer right now, and we're praying for complete healing in Jesus' name. Thank you. Merkel. Media. This was all circulating around the base that a giant had to kill, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, boning fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen.

And he starts running and firing up this giant. With a giant moves, he's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast. And spears, Dan, holds him up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face. They basically decapitating him. Purson, got closer, got closer, got spars him. and he got about 15 yards away from me. I feel something pulling at my leg.

And I look over and there are two small gray entities pulling it. And they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed. I reached my hand into this bush and I touch air. Couldn't breathe and it couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. Welcome to the show, everybody. You are listening to the Confessionals podcast. I am Jack Merkel and I'm glad to be here. If you have an encounter or a story you'd like to share on the show, go ahead and shoot us an email.

Our email address is contact at the confessionalspodcast.com or go to the website, hit the contact section and you can reach us that way as well. Either way it works for us. Just get a hold of us. And if you want more shows on a weekly basis, well, we've got you covered. Just go to the confessionalspodcast.com slash join and you can become a member there. You will have extra content every week. That's an extra episode every Thursday.

and any bonus content, any overtime shows, and pretty much anything else that we put out for all of the members. All there just as you hit the join button to become a member. Also, if you want some confessional's apparel, go ahead and check out Merchmerch.com, and we're going to be revamping that website very soon with some new merch. That way you guys have some fresh designs for this new year. Also, if you haven't heard yet,

Ellie Marzuli is putting on the Great UFO Deception Summit on January 16th and 17. This will be a live event that you can purchase tickets to now at Deception 2026.net. That's Deception 2026.net. It's a live virtual event. It has a whole bunch of people that you know from the show, including L.A., Karen Wilkinson, Alan Didio, Timothy Albarino, Vicki Joy Anderson, and Larry Ragland, and a whole bunch of other hosts as well.

So if you're interested in the Great UFO Deception Summit, go ahead and check it out right now at deception 2026.com. All right. Today we have an incredible episode ahead for you with Heather Z. That's Joseph Z's wife. And we met Heather a few years ago at the National Radio Broadcasting Convention. And she shared a story with Tony about a gray alien that she had seen. But it was a very odd circumstance.

And for her, it felt almost as though she was out of her body experiencing this. had very similar ties to Hunter and his story that he shared about his out-of-body experience with a gray alien as well. So that was enough to pique Tony's interest and bring Heather in studio. And finally, we were able to sit down with her and talk to her about all of that with the gray alien that she had seen, as well as her near-death experience that she had when she was 14 years old and a whole lot more. This was a deep dive into Heather, her history.

and some of the wild experiences that she's had. So without further ado, let's get to Heather right now. Heather Z, how are you? I'm doing fabulous. All right. I'm glad because you guys got a little delayed. I got to say this because when it happened, I was so embarrassed. And I was like, you've got to be kidding.

I can't believe I did this. And I told the guys, I was like, they travel all over the place. And I gave him my house address. But, yeah. I mean, your assistant was asking some details and about the house, or not the house, so where is the studio address? And I just default gave you guys my house address. And it was so funny because just around the time I got a text from Joseph saying,

I think we're here. Lindsay's calling me saying, am I supposed to be expecting four people coming down the driveway? I was like, oh, no. So. Oh, so sorry. I don't mean to impose. But so you got to see my house. and meet my wife.

She's lovely. She's just lovely. Yeah. But I feel like it was, it was, I don't know if it was, I didn't do it on purpose, but maybe sublimitably, there was something subconscious that I was like, let me send them to my house so they can pray for my wife. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it was a divine appointment.

Yeah, I was glad you guys did. So your husband, Joseph Zee, had become a pretty good friend of mine. And I know I've talked about the situation on the show. how I met him because it was pretty dramatic for me how the circumstances surrounding how he and I met and him praying for me when we first met. But through that, I got to meet a bunch of different people. You're one of them. And you just came out with a book called Unlocking Heaven's Truth. Now, is this your first book? It is. Yeah? Yes. And was it something that was on your radar or is this something that was? It's something we had talked about. And I,

I just, over the years in ministry, several times I would have people come and say, when are you going to tell your story? When are you going to, when will you just go ahead and tell all, if you will, just because I've had so many different things in my life that I've referenced, whether, you know, speaking or, you know, preaching with my husband or whatever. And so it was just time. Yeah. Yeah. And it took a little bit because I knew it would be a process. I have watched him write books and I know it's not for the faint and heart. Or, I mean, you know, we take it really serious and I knew I was going to pour my whole heart

into it just because of where I've come from. And, you know, when you've absolutely hit the end of yourself, you know, I knew that I would be walking through those things again. And I know that that can be, it's really involved because you just, I have. I knew I was going to put everything out there. And so I did. Was that hard? It had moments.

Absolutely. There would be moments I would find myself recalling things. And oddly enough, it wasn't until I sat down to write the book that I would have memories that came back to me that I had not recalled in years. And so when those things would come, it was more so a gratefulness for the Lord because now being on the other. side of it all, seeing how much he was in the midst of all of it. Yeah. I'm kind of in a similar situation because Destiny has me writing a book and I, it is hard. It is. Like I was looking at all the books that like Joseph's written and, you know, Rick Renner and I'm just thinking, how these guys do this? And it's painstaking. But I've experienced that myself where I was sitting

there recalling things from my childhood that I didn't even know was in there my brain, you And I started like thinking, I don't even, I didn't remember that until just now, you know. But it's wild. I guess that's maybe therapeutic too, right? Yeah, it was. It was, it had a level of healing to it in the sense of, wow, I really am past this. I've really moved up. I'm really healed and whole in these areas.

You know, you think you become, you know, you excel as a person or you, you know, you mature in the Lord and things. but when you look back, or I should say when I looked back, I was like, wow, I've really been healed and just completely delivered of some things. And it's only by the Lord and, of course, doing my part and meeting with the Lord and just staying with it. Yeah, and you're vulnerable in the book, too, with your perspectives on ministry when you were younger. Yeah. I mean, so you grew up in a household where your parents were always in ministry? Oh, yeah.

I'm a third generation's pastor's kid who said I would never be in ministry. Jokes on you. Yeah, pretty much. So growing up in ministry and your parents, what kind of ministry were they in? I got the sense they weren't just pastors of a church. No, they did pastor. They had pastored a couple of different churches over the years. They were in ministry for about, I would say, close to almost 50 years.

And so, but they, my father was a prophet. He was very prophetic. And so he mostly did things in the nations. So they traveled a lot overseas. Okay. And then, of course, they did things here in the States as well, conferences and, you know, prophetic seminars or, you know, doing like a school of the prophets or something like that. Wow. So let me ask you this about the prophetic side of things.

Yeah. Your father was a prophet. You marry one. And I think you said in the book, your daughter displays that as well. Oh, definitely. Is that something then that is it, is it, is a generational in a sense of it's in the blood or is a generational as in it's like it's in the mantle? Definitely it's in the DNA. I would say it's in the DNA, but there's also where the Lord will put gifts in people where the scripture says, I wasn't a son of a prophet, but basically I'm a prophet.

So I think there's a calling. I believe that the Lord places mantles on people, callings on them, but I also very much believe. A lot of times you'll see where you can have a house of teachers or a house of doctors, you know, where they just kind of follow suit. in a sense and it's just in their DNA where they're, you know, or carpenters where they're just really good at it. And so they're, you know, if they're raised in it as well, then their children become good at it and trained in it also. So that's got to be fulfilling to see it kind of play out throughout the generations, you know? Yes. Especially now that you're fully bought into ministries. Oh, completely. I'm sold. So it's interesting though because you're, you're,

when you were 14, you had a very traumatic experience. Yes. And we'll get into that here. But knowing that that happened and then afterwards, you went through that season of not wanting anything to do with ministry and things like that. Yeah. At some point, we'll pull at that as to how that can maybe unfold, you know, because you would think that somebody who has such a profound supernatural experience would be like,

oh, I'm 100% always. we're going in for the rest of my life on this. Yes. But life is full of seasons. So tell us about that when you were 14, that whole situation. And I don't want to spoil it, but I found it's, it's, it's, you had near death experience. I did. I don't know.

Maybe it's an actual death experience. I'm not sure. Yeah. It's, you know, it's still, you know, I feel that I did. Just through some things, some natural things that had happened when I was on the metal table. But yeah, when I was young, I was gymnast. I was in gymnastics from like seven years old until my senior in high school. And so, but we were, you know, it was after a very long practice that day.

It was a couple hours, a few hours. And so we ended up going over to some friends' house after church or church or church friends, not after church. And so as we were there, they just said, Heather, can you take our, daughter to the park. And I was like, sure, no problem. So we walked a couple of blocks to the park. And it was, I wasn't doing anything spectacular, nothing amazing. I just, there were a couple of parallel bars there. And, you know, just as kids do, I lift myself up with my shoulders. And it was just swinging back and forth. And on the back swing, my muscles were so stressed that they jerked. And I slingshot forward. I hit my head on the ground and it snapped back and I heard my neck crack.

And so everything went black. And the little girl, I faintly remember her crying and saying, what should I do? And I could barely get out, go get my parents. Next thing I know, as I'm kind of coming to, I was walking down the street holding my neck. So I have no idea how I got up up off the ground. But as I was walking back to their house, I get through the door and I open the door. And, you know, as moms know, they're kids.

I walk in the door and my mom looked at me and said, are you all right? And I said, I think I broke my neck. And I was in so much shock. I couldn't even cry. It was like one tear. So we got in the car and they took me to the hospital and I definitely remember going over the railroad tracks. It was very painful. But as we got there, my father went in and said, we think our daughter broke her neck.

And they said, where is she? And he said, she's in the car. and they said, you moved her, and he said, she walked home. So once they got me in there, they went through all the vitals and how many fingers and all the things. And they just said, we're going to take you back for a CAT scan. So as they got me back there, I was on this. It wasn't a metal table. It was just a regular, like, well, it was whatever kind of table that they would put me through a CAT scan.

And so as I was laying there, I remember the nurse saying, you know, Heather, I'll be right back. Just we're going to take some pictures and I'll be back in just a moment. And I was like, okay, the next thing I know, I'm laying there. And I was peaceful. And I just remember my eyes beginning to shut. And as they shut, the next thing I know, I was above my body looking at my body on the table. And I was real matter of fact. I wasn't afraid.

I wasn't scared. it was just like, oh, that's me on the table. The next thing I know, I left and I went to another place. So you weren't confused at that time. So it just felt that natural. Yeah, it was very, yeah, it was as if we were sitting here talking. That's wow. So, so where'd you go? So as I left, it was kind of this. Do you remember what it was like leaving? Like, were you? Yeah, it was, I mean, it was quick. It's like as if you're blinking. The next thing I know, it was like, I don't want to say like a whooshing sound, but it just kind of, there's just, it was like slight wind. And as I blinked and next thing, I know I'm in another place. And I was very much aware of my family in the waiting

room, but I was also aware that I was somewhere else. And as I was there, I noticed that there were people, like, just talking amongst themselves. I couldn't talk to them. They didn't talk to me, but I was very aware. It was like I knew them. I couldn't tell you who they, I couldn't tell you their faces, but I knew them. It was like family. I don't know how to describe that. But as I was sitting there. I was, or I wasn't sitting, I was standing there and it was, it was like my home. And so it was interesting because it's almost like translucent. It was like I was in my home, but I could see people off to the side talking and I was aware of my family. But as I was there, I began to look outside and I was in this home and it felt like home, like it was my home.

And that's the best way I can describe it. But as I began to look outside, I saw, grass and beyond that I saw wheat and I don't know how to say grass is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my entire life but it was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen in my entire life was the grass and the wheat beyond and the wheat was like gold but it was almost translucent it was so brilliant and vibrant and the grass was I've just I know it's just grass and wheat but this wasn't like anything I'd ever seen in my whole life and so as a lot of you. So as I was there looking outside, I remember thinking, I want to be out there. In the moment that I thought it, I moved at the speed of thought. I went through the wall. In an instant, I went through the wall

and I was outside where the grass was and looking at the wheat beyond. And so as I'm there, I'm just taking it all in and the vastness. You know, we travel a lot and, you know, We've been to tops of mountains where you can see the vastness of, you know, just the topography. This was a far more vastness to it that I can't describe for how far I could, was capable of seeing. It was just massive. And so as I was taking it all in, the next thing I know I felt compelled to look up. As I began to look up, I saw these two huge hands begin to fill the sky. And I've heard, you know, just with, you know, books and relationships, I've heard other people, you know, talk about they saw Jesus and he's about six feet tall and flames of fire in his eyes.

That was not my experience at all. And so as I was looking up and seeing these two huge hands, and mind the fact, this vastness, it filled this vastness. As they began to come down and cup together, as soon as they cup together, I was sitting in his hands. hands, and that's when he spoke. It was the most amazing thing that, you know, again, undescribable, but it was so wonderful. I remember cupping my eyes, like if you're trying to look at the sun, because I wanted, you know, I was trying to see his face, and I could only see from his shoulder and down, because the brilliance was so bright, I couldn't, I couldn't even, I couldn't see any further than the shoulder. And so as I was sitting there, he began to speak to

me. And as he began to speak to me, it would hit me in my abdomen area when he would talk. And the best way I can describe it is, is he would talk and I would hear it on the inside. And then I would, when I would respond, it would be like responding with the thought. I didn't use my mouth to talk at all. It was truly spirit to spirit. Like when they say heart to heart, spirit to spirit, I didn't have to use my mouth at all to talk to him as I was sitting there. Wow. And so, and so. And so, So he just began to unfold my life to me a little bit. And, you know, when you're 14, you don't, I didn't fully realize everything he was saying to me. I understood what he was saying, but I didn't realize the impact it would have later on as my life unfolded.

And so he just began to, I had a sense of my husband, a sense of family. And as we began to talk, he said, Heather, I have assignments for you to do. I've designed you and I have tailored specific things that they're just tailored for you to do. And so he just started encouraging me in a sense of I have, you know, I have a plan for your life. And that goes for everyone. He absolute, every single person on this earth has a purpose. And I truly believe it's our responsibility to find out what that is and fulfill it. But as we began to finish talking, and I was just amazed by, wow, I have an assignment and things.

Towards the end, he just real simply just said, Heather, don't worry, everything's going to be okay. I have you in my hands. It's time for you to go now. And I just said, no, Lord, I'm not to cry. I just said, no, Lord, I don't want to go. And he was so simple, and he just said, Heather, don't worry. Everything's okay. I have you in my hands. It's time for you to go now. And the next thing I know, I felt wind rushing into my lungs.

And I went like this. And I started breathing, you know, pretty steadily. And the doctors came in and they said, okay, we're going to bring you out. And the amazing thing of all of this is, is there was a specialist who was in town. because we lived in Minneapolis. And a specialist specifically, what I didn't know at 14 years old, I had broken C-1. Do you remember Christopher Reeves, Superman?

Yeah, yeah. I broke the same vertebrae, where he ended up being a vegetable in the chair and all those things. And so a specialist came in and they said, you're not going to believe it. And they were thinking, you know,

he should have been on a plane, but he just so happened to have left his page at that specific, they didn't have cell phones back there was pagers, but he had left his pager at that specific same hospital that I was at. And they just said, you're not going to believe it. We have this little girl in here. Can you take a look at her x-rays because we're trying to decide whether we should do a halo or, and that's where they drill holes into your head and put a metal cage that rests on your shoulders. Whoa. And so they were trying to decide if we were about to go into a serious surgery or not. And as he began to look at my x-rays, he said,

this is crazy. He just said, she absolutely broke her neck. He just said a hair to the left or the right, she would be completely dead. And he said, I don't, you know, this is kind of, not kind of, this is the miraculous. This is one in a billion kind of situations where she did break C1. I don't know how she's not dead, but she's not dead. And so anyway, they sent me away. And the greater miracle is, is when I came back to my follow-up for them to do another x-ray, the break in my neck was completely gone as if it never happened. How long a period of time was that?

Two weeks. Two weeks. Yeah. Wow. And that doesn't happen. No. No. In fact, that reminds me of, I mentioned them earlier, but Forrest Frank, he broke his back recently, skateboarding, and two weeks later, he was healed. Yeah. Absolutely.

It's such a, it's such a testament to the miraculous healing that is available. And did, I'm assuming there was fervent prayer for healing. Oh, definitely. Yeah. I was aware of my parents praying. the waiting room. So when I was there and I was, I had an awareness of both places. Interesting. And so, but I couldn't, I knew I couldn't talk to them and I couldn't talk to these other people. I was just in this place of where I just kind of walked it out. And as I walked out into the open, open space where I was at, that's where the Lord met me. And I truly believe it was God the Father, like creator of the universe. Like these, that's just my takeaway.

because of these such massive hands that, you know, I know he spoke and the world's reform, but to me it was a signifying, if you will, where he just, he was everywhere. I mean, he was, he filled everywhere. He was in everything. That's wild. You mentioned about the way he looked and how other people described differently. And I forget what the situation was, but a few years ago, I had this thought. And I just think it's so simplistic to, you know, sometimes it's just one plus one equals two, you know? Like, is Jesus God?

Yes. Do we have biblical precedent that shows that even people who knew him didn't recognize him? Yes. Why is that? Well, I think Jesus can appear to people in different ways that I personally feel like if Christ knows that you have, I don't know, thoughts of certain, I don't know, like, I just feel like he's going to appear to people in a comfortable way for that person. Yeah, make them where they're at. And I mean, like, his own disciples were like, right there with him. And they're like, oh, we didn't know it was you, man.

Like, why is that? Because I guess because he looked different than they were used to, you know, and maybe there were scales over their eyes. So you mentioned about that, that wind sound. And I've had that pop up on the show at times. And I guess I want, before I go into my thought on it, I guess do you associate that, that wind sound as like just part of movement that you were, that you would move and you'd hear a wind because of the movement? Or do you, or do when you heard that wind sound isn't more of a, I'm not sure exactly what that was, but I noted it. Yeah. No, I would say I'm not, I can't quite say this is what that was.

But it was definitely prominent. Another thing too is he was so, it was so peaceful when he spoke to me, but all at the same time, have you ever, I don't know if you've ever been to the zoo where there's lions, or if you've been out in the, in the safari where when a lion roars and it shakes you to the inside, it was like a lion, like literally the sound of a, like when a lion roars how it rattles you on the inside, but experiencing peace at the same time. I don't quite know how to describe that. Yeah. Well, I think a lot of this is hard to describe, right?

I mean, we're trying to describe supernatural experiences with natural language. Yes. Oh, it's true. It's true. I feel like an animal bellering trying to explain color. So I'm like, I don't got it. As much as I want to, it's, yeah. It's like one of those things where you just have to experience yourself.

I mean, you're talking about the grass. And I'm just sitting here thinking, man, if grass and wheat is that amazing in heaven or wherever you were then how majestic is everything else you know because I um I at least probably a couple times a year I get I go down this like rabbit hole mentally where I think about my eternity and like what is it going to be like being the presence of God right growing up I was late and it's like man it's me boring you know like do they Do they have basketball in heaven? You know?

I was just like, it's going to be boring. But now when I put it in just the, when I just put it in the way of my little experience of God's presence that I've experienced here on Earth and how that has made me feel, how it's transformed my life. And then taking the fact that he is all existing God, he is forever, infinite, therefore every aspect of him is infinite. therefore every aspect of him is infinite. And so when I'm in his presence, it just really started sinking in. Every moment in his presence is going to be a new moment I've never experienced before because he is infinite. And so when you're talking about grass, like, even the grass.

It comes alive. And it's true. I feel I think even now, anytime I've dealt with something where I don't understand or there's confusion, it comes back to me. because we're meant for eternity. So when we get frustrated, there's things that can kind of collide where we truly are meant for eternity.

And so that's kind of, for a lack of better words, that's kind of that animal bellering, like you're trying to understand with this natural world when we are definitely, you know. We're renting space here. Yes.

It's not permanent. We're meant for something else. Yeah, way more. So the wind sound I've had people and I'm not saying that this is identical but it's just interesting

and it's interesting too because most people that I can remember I've had it several times on the show but a lot of times it's been ladies but it's not in your case where you experienced this after the NDE already started these ladies and people

have experienced that they knew something supernatural was about to start because they started hearing a whooshing sound, almost like a windmill. And so when you said that, I was like, I wonder if that's something similar, you know? Like, I don't know how to describe it, but there's, there might be natural things that can happen in a natural that signify a supernatural experience happening or getting ready to happen. And I always make note of things like that. Also, another one is metallic sounds.

People talk about metallic sounds. But that's more cryptic stuff. We won't go there today. You know, monster hunting stuff in the woods late at night. But where do you think you were? Because, I mean, I often go down the thought process of the first, second, third, heaven stuff. And I don't claim to have a... strong theological claim as to what it is, what it isn't. But I look at like Daniel 10 and the warfare

that we see unfold there and the tangible aspects of supernatural spiritual warfare where like there's literally an angel that's delayed with physical time because of what was happening in the supernatural. And I often look at the second heaven as a place where shenanigans happen. But I also, I think it was, I always pronounce his last name wrong. Lance Walnau. Oh, yeah. I was listening to him do a teaching on the first, second, and third heaven. And it was a lot of similar thoughts that I had, but I forget how he was describing,

but he was describing how there's like this pipeline from the third heaven to the first, from the third heaven to the first heaven. And there is this aspect of people going through the second heaven on the way to the third heaven. I might be butchering it, but I'm probably, but do you feel like you were in a state of existence of the second heaven, third heaven? Were you in the presence of God in the third heaven? How did you, I mean, you've had plenty of time to think about it. I mean, not that you have a secure answer in it, but. No, I would definitely say, so I experienced some physical things as I was coming back and I had kind of lost function, if you will. I don't know if you follow me.

I'm trying to not be inappropriate or crude. Yeah. But, you know, 14. And it was like, I was, as I was like losing, like, my body control, if you will, that's, like, right when I was starting to come back to. So to say that I, I do believe I was passing. I was like, I was passed. And I don't know. I don't, I haven't looked into the physiological, you know, physiological state of the body of when that,

at what point that happens, but I was losing body function at that point. Saying that to say, I do feel that my opinion is, is heaven is so much more vast than just grass and wheat. So I do believe the Lord met me. I definitely feel that I was there, but it was, was I, like, right in the midst of it where all the action is and where, you know, there's, there's, heaven is so vast. There's so many, when you look in scripture, there's so many things to heaven. So to say where I was, I definitely was in an in-between space. I do feel that I was like there just like before being fully just full on there. And so I would say that I had probably at the best that I can say, and I'm trying to track my records down.

Like medical records? Oh, yeah. I have my x-ray. Really? Yeah, I do. And so I have those, and I'm looking to dig those out. But I would love to get a hold of, you know, the doctors. Now this has been several years ago.

So how far I can get I don't know anymore because I usually don't hold onto those things. But I do believe that I passed. Like I was, I think, I believe that I completely died. I mean, you saw yourself laying there on a table, right? Yeah. I mean, that's classic, I'm dead territory. Yeah. And the coolest part was, is I wasn't afraid.

Like, there's no fear whatsoever. Like, it's absent. It's completely absent. That's going to be encouraging for people to hear, too, you know, because I think so many times, especially people who aren't secure in what they believe in what happens after this. Yeah. To know that there's peace.

Oh yeah. And it's such a thin, thin veil. It is so thin. It's like I can't even move quick enough. It's like stepping inside of one door away and back again. The door frame. It's just here or there. Here or there.

It's very quick. Wow. And it was just so matter of fact like, oh, well, there I am. Yeah. But not. Like that's just, it's my earth suit, if you will. It's just my, it's just. the, you know, the temple that I, you know, I carry.

We are careers and carriers of the Holy Spirit. We're carriers and carriers of what God breathed on the inside. When he breathed his breathed into us, he really did. Yeah. Wow. I mean, I feel like, I don't know, I just feel like the after, I don't even say afterlife, I feel like that's even watering it down. Whatever is beyond this, everything that's beyond this is,

it's complicated to express. And I often find myself wondering logistics of things, almost like what came first to chicken or the egg, right? So you have Abiniv before sin. Was their existence before sin much more on the other side of that veil? And then when sin entered,

their access to that was revoked and there was much more of a physical existence. from then on. These are things I think about because, like, they walked with God. Yeah. And then it wasn't until they took the devil's word over God's word that they were spiritually separated from him. Yeah. And then all of the things, you know, all the law and all the things started to come in order to keep covenant. So yeah, absolutely. Would that make sense then as to why when you felt like, well, when you saw yourself laying on the table and you go to wherever you went, there was so much peace, almost like a coming home experience. It's like this is where I naturally belong. Oh, yeah. That was far more real to me than this. This is very watered down here. This is a watered down drab. I mean, it's like the matrix. It's either the red pill or the blue pill. For real.

It's talking my language now. Yeah. So this is very drab, very watered down. There is, it is so much more life, so much more vibrant. It was so much more aware of even, like when you know your identity in the Lord. And a lot of people don't, you know, they just think, oh, I'm this lowly worm and what would God ever do want with me? It's like, no, he made you for a purpose. He needs you to know it.

He needs you to know your identity in him, and he needs you to stand up and be that son or daughter that he has made a covenant with and, you know, what Jesus paid for. I mean, he's provided everything for us to live, even a vibrant life, even here, and this place that we were never meant for. Yeah. And I recently have been thinking a lot about, I always think about logistics on how this stuff works, right? And then sometimes when I'm reading, my brain just kind of goes down rabbit holes, thought processes. And it just kind of really hit me recently. I forget where in Revelation, I think Revelation 13 talking about the book of life and how it existed before the foundations of the earth. And I was like, wait a second, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. That means Jesus knew who was going to come to him before. the earth ever existed, which means he created mankind so that he could die for them.

Like before it even existed, the mission was, I'm going to die for them. You know, and I was just like, man, eternity is very complex. This whole thing is just wild, but it should give people a sense of purpose, you know, that you were not just a mistake being created. And, you know, it was just like, oh, he didn't know what he was doing when created you. do. It's just, I think a lot of people are just not fulfilling their purposes in life and what God created them to be. And if they could figure that out and walk that out, which kind of goes to what you were saying earlier, which I guess is a question I'd like to ask you. I kind of, so you're,

you know Larry Ragwin, right? Yeah. Yeah. So he and I become pretty good friends. And I was sitting at a dining, a restaurant with him. And he called. called me out, and I was like, man, why should you have to do that? But he told me that, he said, God called you to podcast. You're doing that. That is great. But you're only walking in half of your annoying. He calls you to preach and you're not doing it. And through that conversation with him, I had a thought that I'd never really consider before, which is, if I know my calling, if I know my purpose in life and what God wants out of me, and I'm treating it like it's a suggestion, am I sinning? And I started thinking, I think I'm looking at my father and saying,

no, I'm not doing that. I think that would be a sin. And so like, that's kind of what got me off the, off the couch, per se. And I called my pastor. I was like, okay, I'll do it. But it's about walking in that purpose. Absolutely. Well, there's, there's calling and there's separation. So Paul was called in the beginning. Like, before his mother, there's womb, we're called. But then there comes a point of separation where you, where you go and you basically mature and prove yourself. There's a time of separation unto the Lord, a time of maturity, a time of season, a time of journey. And then it's when preparation meets opportunity. And when you're ready, you know, the Lord's not going to send you. You know,

there's people with gifts in gifts and callings are without repentance, as we know. gifts will take you to the top of the mountain, but only character will keep you there. So people need time to build that character to keep them there, because if you don't have that character, man, the devil will eat your lunch and pop the bag and have a heyday with you. So yeah, definitely. I agree with you. There's times and seasons that, yes, you have a, you have a knowing, a recognition, but then that's when the journey begins of that time of separation unto the Lord and then beginning to prepare. So when it's time and you meet that season of maturity, then you can do it with assurance and confidence, not in yourself, but in the Lord.

Absolutely. Yes, that's how I feel my life. The pattern has been like hindsight. You look back on life and you're just like, oh, God was having a season of preparing, you know? Yeah. And we were talking about before we started recording. I mentioned that as well. I just feel like right now God has me kind of on the bench. I'm watching the game, learning the plays. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he hasn't put me in yet, and I'm fine with that.

I'm learning. Yeah, even Paul, Paul was a Pharisee of Pharisees. He was one of the most well-taught in the law. He was, I mean, he could wax eloquent, but he had to go away for a season. And he could have been right there with all the disciples, rubbing elbows, this and that. But he went out to another place, and I'm trying to recall the name of the town, but it's where Moses was where he was trained. So he went out into the wilderness, out into a time of not only learning and basically maybe unlearning some things, but it was where he went out and he got the revelation of Jesus, the definite article, where I believe he met Jesus face to face,

where he got a revelation of who Jesus was that truly transformed him from Saul to Paul. Wow. So yeah, there's definitely a journey. If you have a responsibility and ministry, it takes time. Yeah. Yeah, totally. So there's two things I want to make sure we hit on because I feel like I'm just started to talk with you, talk to you without having. I want to hit on things too. Yeah. But I want to talk about the health complications you had with your kidney. Yeah. There's a lot of things. I feel like that story has a lot of. lot of miraculous in it. But I also, like I said before, one of the first things I think you and I ever talked about, you asked me about, I forget how you said it, but about the ET gray experience.

And I was like, I can't believe she's talking about this right now. I just didn't expect that, you know? But I totally, if you're okay, talking about that, but I wasn't sure what happened first. because I don't know if that was something that happened when you were younger, the gray. Oh, no, that happened well. That's right. Well, after all these other experiences. Right. Yeah.

Before I was like, I'm no longer doing ministry and all those things. So before we move in any of that, I do have to come back to a 14-year-old experience because I kind of talked about this in the beginning. What is it do you think that? You had that experience. God clearly spoke to you. Your life has a purpose. Yes. How does life happen where, whether you get beat up with ministry or whatnot,

that you kind of put the idea of ministry on the back burner, even though you had that experience with God? Yeah. You know, like, was it was, was it just being a P.K that it was just like, you've had enough, you're tired of it? Or did you forget what the experience was with God? No, I am. So, yes, some of it's being a PK.

You see, you know, you go home and you hear all the conversations. Of course, those stay at home. You know, it's ingrained in you. What we talk about at home stays at home. We don't repeat things. And so, you know, you can see people are fallen. People are not perfect. You're dealing with imperfect people.

And of course, you know, my parents were very diligent. and love the Lord, and I would see them doing long hours, long days, long weeks, long months, and then being in a church setting where in some ways they were more meant for, they were meant to be, you know, more itinerant or they would go out and minister. So, you know, you can walk in a church, and I'd be like, I don't like you, can't stand you, I know what you did. You know what I mean? So you can get a little jaded as a kid. But I also, too, I had a terrible experience at 19, which kind of, it just sent me in a spiral. And I didn't really know how to grapple with it. And I didn't, because it took some time unfolding, because I didn't have all the

pieces myself, I was somewhat aware, but not fully aware until later when I met Joseph and we started to talk through things. And he truly helped me through it. But when I was 19, I was trafficked. And so you think as a kid, you know, I'm in this godly home and, you know, it's wonderful things. And then, you know, I was basically trafficked in a night. And because, you know, the group that I hung with, you know, it's the Midwest is known for softball. So you have co-ed softball. Okay. You know, softball is a thing.

And so I had some friends. And so one of our guy friends from the service. just said, hey, let's go hang out. And so he had slipped something into my drink. And the last thing I, so I was a very controlled kid because I was a like church kid, be seen but not heard. You know, you're very aware of your surroundings and very controlled in things. But anyway, the one of the last things in the beginning that I, you know, that I really remembered. It was foggy. I, I remember music playing because we went to a pool hall and I remember myself kind of cutting loose and I remember thinking to myself, I don't act like this in public. I don't, I'm not this loose. I'm very, very controlled and, you know, have it

together all the time. And so after that evening, I don't know how many men or the situation. I do remember, you know, a few. And then I remember seeing a girl there that I'd never seen before. And so, and this person knew that my parents traveled. So it was just probably an easy target. And so that- I've been targeting you. Yeah, and as a kid, you don't know how to grapple with those things.

And I didn't, I wasn't fully aware of it until it had started to unfold later. Like, oh my goodness. And so even as we talk about it. you know, the kidney failure and stuff. My body doesn't take to drugs. I've woken up in surgeries. So because of that, that's why I remember some of those things. Wow.

Yeah. Wow. But I was so completely healed and delivered of it to the point that it's, it was, it's as if it never even happened. Like the Lord healed me so much. But it took a long time. It wasn't just an overnight thing. It was a journey of, you know, because I spun out and I started.

going and partying and started doing all these things and not really even knowing why. And just this downward spiral. And then finally I just said, you know, God, you're either real or you're not. And so, and I met my husband later. And the Lord really met me and just healed me and delivered me completely, like as it never even happened. That's awesome. Yeah.

That whole industry, it's just, it's so demonic. Oh, yeah. It's interesting you bring this up because just this week we've come out with two episodes about trafficking. I had two episodes that we had recorded. Let's just put them out this week together. But it's a real problem. And it's been a problem for a long time. And there's a real, like, tangible demonic influence behind that entire industry.

And there's so many different tentacles. of it, you know? There's like the large scale, the cartels operation in it. There's the government blackmailing involvement, you know, like Epstein type stuff. Absolutely. And there's there's also the smaller cells of it as well. Do you feel like that you kind of fit in that category of the smaller cells of this like somebody who's trying to make money off of? Oh, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. He this he probably made a bit of some money off of this other girl and my son there could have been other girls there I just don't remember seeing anybody do you do you think that the um the rebellion that happened after that what do you think it was subconsciously because of that that the rebellion

happened or you think there was demonic influence that was attached to because of that situation like the trauma that you went through yeah and the things that that that happened like opens like a doorway to your life of demonic influence. Absolutely. I do believe a door was opened, but it was a violation. It's not like I was just going out on my own to be rebellious or anything like that. I just started, like I said, in this downward spiral of and like stuff that had gotten opened up in a way that I wasn't even, I don't feel that I was even fully aware. And but just doing stuff. And I remember thinking, why am I doing this?

You know, I would find myself, you know, being with certain people and things and just really thinking, why am I doing this? This is not who I am. This is not who I was a very quiet kid. I was not a rowdy kid whatsoever. I was very, not shy, but just not rowdy. Yeah, it was pretty peaceable as a kid. So I would say, yeah, things probably got opened up to that. What was the turning point for you that you're going to?

down that path, what kind of, there had to be something, or was it just gradual where you start coming back to, I don't know if you were not attending the church or what was that? Because for me, like, I had gone down a dark road in my mid-20s. I was rebellious, literally purposely trying to tank my marriage. And looking back on it, I can see the demonic influences that I had let into my life. One of them was meeting my biological father. And it, it was, it was, opened up all these doorways. And for me, it was like a very dramatic thing. Like, I was at a funeral. And that's when the Holy Spirit just spoke. Like, it was like, you brought up the Matrix. It was like, I often describe it. It's like, all of a sudden, the room spun. I'm sitting there with,

with Morpheus. It's just me and Morpheus. It's like everything else is gone. Yeah. That's how it felt because it's like the Holy Spirit was just speaking to me. And like, that was my moment. I was like, whoa, you know? And my life just started changing after that. Yeah. Was there a moment like that for you? Absolutely. Yeah. So I was working third shift at the the time because I was going to go into the medical field and I was going to be a surgeon. But my parents had been ministering and doing, you know, weeks of meetings up at this church. And I came home from third shift and I was making coffee and I was just like, they had no idea. Like I've just, I was not the one where I'm going to be rebellious just to get at my parents.

Like, no, I loved my mom and dad. I love them very much. I wasn't that kid. And so as we were sitting there and I was pouring a cup of coffee, my back was turned to them as I'm pouring coffee. I just said, so how are the meeting's going? And I'll never forget it. My dad said, you should meet the youth pastor. And it was like somebody had punched me in the stomach and I had a flood of memories come back to me.

Well, I had prayed that my father would find my husband. Wow. But I never told him about it. I hope my daughter does the same thing. Absolutely. And so I just, I, I was a very innocent kid. I was a very pure kid. And so, I just prayed that he would find my husband with, but I didn't tell him. I, like, this needs to be from the Lord. And so when he said that, it was like a flood. It just, like the Holy Spirit just hit me, like a ton of bricks. And I was like, oh, and I'm like the baby of the girls. Like my dad did not talk to me about.

guys. I was like, no, you can just stay little forever. And so, and so I remember the following weekend they were going up there. And I was just, I was just in a, in a cycle and a grind and not doing good. And I remember I was hanging out with friends and out of nowhere. I just, I felt the prompting of the Lord, like, get up and leave right now. And so I did. I got up and I drove two hours away to the meeting and I got there and and when I did um I got to the you know it was crowded like this is back in the day of vineyard where like they would just worship with all their might and it was one of these meetings where it's packed to the walls and people are just worshiping God and it's hot and it's they're just going for it and so I make my way to the front and so I look over it and I see this

this guy and you know and he's like the Holy Ghost all over him. Like, like, he's just him and Jesus. And I just leaned over to my mom just because being a P.K., you've seen it all. Like, okay, who's this? You just, you note people in the room very quickly. Yeah. And I said, who's that guy?

And she's like, oh, that's the pastor. That's the youth pastor that. Oh. And I was like, oh, I don't know. And so, but more so, we just started talking as friends. You know, we didn't, he was, he was not used to, you know, the crowd that I'd been hanging with for so long. He was nothing that I, I would say he was everything I never knew I wanted. I just, he was just like all for Jesus.

And I remember when we first started dating, like he wouldn't even hold my hand. And I'm like, it's like, you can hold my hand. It's like, it's cool. It's okay. And so, yeah, he. He just, he was hysterically funny. It was non-threatening, but more so later, he invited me out to youth camp. And I'm like, youth camp, like, I haven't done that before.

Been there. Yeah, right? And so, but that's when I had my experience. I was standing in the back. I was angry. I'm like, look at all these hypocrites. All these kids that are worshiping God. They're going to forget about it by Wednesday.

They're going to be in the clubs by Friday. And, you know, and then falling on their face and bawling and squalling on Sunday, repenting and doing it. You know, it's just, and I just said to the Lord, I'm like, this is it. I'm like, either you show yourself to me right now or I'm out for good. I'm tired of playing church. I'm tired of because I had had ups and downs where I tried to pull it together and then I was off partying again and that whole mess.

And I was finally at the end of it. And I said, I'm like, show yourself or I'm out. You're either real or you're not. And so what is it? And I was by myself in the back and the presence of God hit me so hard. like laid me out. No one was around me. No one touched me.

It was just me and Jesus. And so that's when I started to fall in love with Jesus for myself. Not because of my parents, not because I was in church, not because anything other than God met me there. So it was like a new plateau spiritually for you. I often describe my relationship with God for the majority of my life up until my mid-20s was through my parents. through other people around me.

In fact, even musicians. I mean, we were out of the Philadelphia area. And back in the early 2000s, Christian hip hop, the mecca of it was Philadelphia. Like there was a group called cross movement. There's different artists and stuff. And I was ingrained in that community. I loved these artists.

I had met them at times. And so they became like these crutches. You know, I listened to their music. And because they were saying certain things about God, I believe that about God. And then I saw some of them fall. Yeah. And that did a number on me when it shouldn't have, but it did.

And then I started realizing my parents, their spiritual crushes. I don't actually have a real faith outside of that. I was a Christian when I was around other people who were Christians. But it wasn't like I didn't want to be a Christian. It's just I didn't, there was nothing there. It was just it was what it was. And so for me it was the same thing where it was just like I had that moment and it was just like, oh, this is real and it's, it's tangible, you know. Was it, so you, you and

Joseph were dating at the time. It took a little bit, yeah, because we were just friends and kind of in and out, but yeah, it was, and I was, I got to be honest, I was, he's the first person that, if I could say, freaked me out because I don't know if that's the best term, but because I had been in such such superficial, like the crowd I ran with, their fast cars, they were, had their own, whether a penthouse, their own condos, they lived in the same district as the Minnesota Vikings. Like, I was exposed to all, like, the clubs and all the things. And then when I met him, I was like, you don't change. It just flipped my lid. Like, I'll never forget it. Like, we, we went to this, man, I'm telling you, he had the most fire.

youth camp. Like these kids parade. They got into the presence of God. They knew God for real. They read their Bibles for real. They desired the Lord for real. And after, I remember after youth camp, just saying to one of the youth kids, I said, oh, so what have you been up to?

And I'm like, oh, man, I just had four hours of secret place time. And I was like, wait, what? Yeah, I just been praying. I've been reading the word. And for like four to six hours. And I'm like, you're still doing that? Like, shouldn't you be like gearing up to go to the club or something? And, you know, this is how busted my thinking was.

It was so busted because I just thought, you all are hypocrites. But it wasn't until I met the real. It wasn't until I met people that truly didn't play church. Like God was, they engulfed themselves. And they had a true experience with the Lord. They had a true experience with the presence of God. And they would have worship nights and all these years. young kids just worshiping God for hours. And, you know, it was hilarious because, you know,

some of the parents on a Wednesday night, they're like, okay, you know, it's time. It's time. Now we need to. Yep, youth groups over. And they're just like crying out to God and like bringing heaven down. It was, so I had a real encounter for myself, but then I also, I just thank you, Jesus. Trying to cry. Not only did I have a real encounter with the Lord. But not everybody gets the opportunity to see people truly giving their life to Jesus and truly living for the Lord. And I was so blessed to be able to be inserted into that environment. Because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, if I would have been put into one more fake thing, probably I would have, it would have been my own decision.

It would have been a bad decision. It would have been the wrong decision. But I would have based my decision off of other people, not what truly is available for people today. What you're describing is there's a lot of people that go through the common phrase church hurt, right? Yeah. And they use their experiences, whether it's little experiences or they come from a life of in the church, but they were hurt. And they use that as their identifier of who God is. Yeah.

He's so been misrepresented. Yeah. Terribly been misrepresented. You're speaking hope to people, I'm hoping, that are listening. And they're like, maybe, maybe I need to go and just find that kind of group of people. Yeah. Apparently they exist. They do.

Yeah. They are out there. Because I think there's people out there that are like, they want that. They don't know, maybe they don't even know how to verbalize it. They don't even know that they want it, but that's what they want. And they don't think you exist. So they resort to the church is filled with hypocrites. Yeah.

And I think that's true. Like, we are hypocrites. We're humans. Yeah. We're sinful. Yeah. Yeah. But like that's why it's important for us to reflect the image of Christ and not ourselves.

Yeah. Man. That's true. Well, I can even say to that. It was much, much later because, you know, we've, over the years now in ministry, with Joseph. We've raised up churches. We've done all of the things. And I had the Lord come to me one day and say, remember what I showed you in heaven? And I was like, grass? Yeah. That's what I was. Yeah. And I said, no, Lord, what did you show me? And it was like ticker tape. And it came back to me

like a flood. Remember those people that I talked about that were talking together? He let me experience. this is part I didn't mention. When I was there, take your best day ever. Like whatever, if you are so blessed or have the ability to have like a family day or Thanksgiving is, you know, you have a family that you're, you know, close with where you enjoy those times or maybe it's your church family or just, you know, people even have career families, you know, where you have, take the absolute most best day of. you know, a stereotypical Christmas morning, best moment ever in your entire life because you're with the people you care about and it's just such the most amazing moment and you don't want the day to end. I couldn't talk to them, but it was like I was inserted in that.

And they were just having a conversation. There was no celebration. There was no occasion. They were just fellowshiping together. And the Lord came to me and said, Heather, remember that day? I'm reliving all of this and like I was there all over again and feeling because I was, we were going through some church heard at the time and I was upset. I was like, come on, Lord. I know there's some busted people down here, but come on. But I, you know, but I trust him and believe

him and I, you know, I know that this isn't forever. It's, it's temporary, this situation we were going through. And as he flooded me back with all of these things, he said, this is why I hate strife so much in my body. This is why I hate strife so much. And I dislike strife amongst my kids, because when they're all in strife, there's not a lot I can do there. It literally stops the flow of the very thing that it was meant for. And so, yeah, I get your shirt. So I've come to recently, I'm telling you, we're going to get to that stuff. We're just talking about that I've recently come to this understanding, like deep understanding in my gut. It's one thing to be like, oh, that's what the scripture says there. But I truly feel when I let resentment, anger,

unforgiveness fester towards anybody. I truly feel my gut, the separation that that's causing between me and God. And it's something that hadn't really connected strongly with me until my pastor kind of was preaching about it. And he brought it up. And he was saying like how the very person that you can't find yourself to forgive and stuff, Jesus loves them. Jesus died for them. And you're finding hate in your heart towards a creation that he created and loves. And that puts a wall between you and him. And I started thinking, are we really going to let somebody that we have frustration and anger towards separate us from the one we love? Like, he is there. And we're, we're, this, the mission here on earth is to glorify God and to draw near to him and have, and have an

ever-increasing relationship. Why on earth would I let somebody who I can't stand be a natural barrier between me and God. Yeah. Like, at that point, I'm like, I'm going to forgive this person because they don't deserve that kind of ground between me and God. Yeah. And it just started really sitting into me. I was just like, man, because sometimes, I mean, there's people that you're just like,

I just can't bring myself to let it go. Yeah. There's a scripture that I'm thinking of. And, you know, it says to pursue peace. But it just basically says, in layman's term, hunt peace down until you have attained it. When you have struggles going on, least you'll see the Lord. And that's not talking about your salvation, lest you see the Lord. It's talking about being in the presence of God.

So it's like hitting the pause button. So it's like you can have stuff going on. But then it's, you know, when you allow those things to get in your heart, it's more of a distraction and just gets you off course. or it's more so it hits a pause button where you're just, it's, you know, you're just delaying. And you don't have to. It's that whole thing of going around the mountain kind of thing. If you want to, you can. You free will, you know, it's up to you.

But yeah, I definitely, I see that with people that it's like don't, with forgiveness. I always talk about unforgiveness like a bell tower where, you know, if you're ringing that bell tower, like, it's not Quasimoto. It's the other one. Igor. Igor, yeah, yeah. If you want to swing on that bell tower like Igor and where you're replaying those thoughts over and over in your head, it's like a bell tower that goes off. It's like a gong in your heart where you're just replaying and replaying and replaying. But the moment that you can be brave enough, it's kind of like the man that came with his kid that said, Lord, I believe, but help me in my unbelief.

You can do the same thing and go, Lord, I forgive, but help me in forgiving. Help me in letting go. And the moment that you can be brave enough and let go of that rope, it might be just as raw. That bell, because you've been swinging on that bell, it might gong a few more times,

but after time of letting go, that bell gets quieter and quieter until it just stops. So if you can just say, Lord, I forgive, but help me with forgiveness. Lord, I have resentment, but help me with letting go of this. And just by faith, with your mouth, out of your own mouth, just say, Lord, I forgive. I might not completely know how to forgive.

And this might be very raw right now. And I don't exactly know the steps. But God, I trust you over my circumstances. God, I trust you over this situation. I take your word above that this is greater, that you are greater because he is than anything that you could possibly have going on. And then it helps you to heal. It's not only that, but you release them of a thing,

but you also are releasing yourself of a thing so that you can continue to walk in wholeness. And continue, staying in the presence of God. You know, that's where it's at. That's where you hear. That's where he leads you. That's where he guides you. We talk about Goshen, you know,

where they smeared the blood over the doorposts, you know, was dark in Egypt, but it was light in Goshen. That meant there was light in their dwelling. So when the death angel passed over and saw the blood over the doorposts, they were covered in the blood. And when you do that, you'll have light in your dwelling. You'll be in the presence of God.

And that's where the Lord can speak to you. And that's when he navigates you through. You look back at some people's lives, and it's like, how did you do that? And I'm willing to bet nine times out of ten, if not ten times out of ten, there were someone who stayed close to the presence of God. They just stayed close to the Lord and kept everything else out.

Yeah, I can speak just from my own experience. I mean, with what we're going through at the house, you know. I've seen it in our household. We've all grown, I say, well, no, even the kids too. We've all grown spiritually through this, you know, and you become much more mission-focused, you know. And I've said it several times throughout the day, but it's because I've been saying it a lot everywhere I go.

It's just, I've been really just focusing in on all aspects of life. How can I give God glory? If that's my job here to reflect His glory, love God, love man, how can I do that through this suffering? And Lindsay has a similar mindset, you know? It's just like, it stinks, but you just like, if you can take yourself out of the situation and realize, okay, why are we here? hear this situation aside, why are we here? Okay, now bring the situation in. Can we still do this?

Yes, we can. We can still glorify God. And I think you're right, because I mean, if somebody were to come to us, hopefully 10 years from now and say, how'd you make it through? I'm like, well, the glorified God through it all. You know, we just love God. Yeah. And stay close to him. Yeah. So, well, speaking of health issues. Yes. So we go about an hour. Okay, we're good. You had, was it kidney failure? Yeah, it was hereditary kidney failure. Okay.

Yeah, so it's basically it's reflux of the kidney. You have your kidneys, your urid and your bladder. It's supposed to be a one-way street, but I had reflux where it would, you know, drain from my kidneys to my bladder, but then it would reflux and it would shoot back up into the kidneys, creating all kinds of infections and things and scar tissue. tissue to the point to where they would just slowly shut down over time. And was this something that you knew was a possibility or to sneak up on you? Definitely snuck up on me. Matter of fact, we caught it with my daughter before I discovered.

Yeah, yeah, and she had a surgery at five years old. She'll never have to go through what I went through with dialysis and all of the things. And I always tell, you know, if I'm doing a women's conference or whatever, I always say, if you have a young girl who is constantly, I hope this is okay, getting medical here, if they're having constant fevers and UTIs, they can fix it, just go in and get a, where they'll fill, you know, they'll fill you up with dye, they'll watch it on the screen to see if you have reflux, and if you do, they just move the urator over and create a flap so that nothing,

my daughter will never know and have to go through what I did. Wow. Wow. So you make it sound so simple. It's easy fix. Yeah. It's an easy fix. Yeah. One day, one day job in the. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was a little more than one day. They invited us in actually to. And if you're a medical person, you're just so used to seeing like 12 to 20 of them a day. But they invited my husband and I in. And we didn't realize the process of what that looks like when someone goes under. They're like, you want to come in with your daughter while we put her in? We're like, sure, we're young and dumb parents. Like, what? Yeah, we want to be with our daughter, but literally they go through the throes like they are dying. And we didn't know that. And so I remember, I remember seeing my, watching my husband's face like, who am I going to hurt first? Like, what is going on right now? And so there's been a, there's been a few of those.

Like, the Lord has put me in his life to say, it's okay, honey. Like, he's wanted to track people down from him. I'm like, babe, there's nothing in the bucket. I'm totally whole. It's fine. Like, we don't need to go track people down. Well, if you change your mind. Yeah.

But I mean, let me tell you. He has been like this close. Like from my experiences of 19, but this situation, I remember walking out with, you know, as they're rolling her down the gurney and this nurse didn't really have very good bedside manner. And she kept trying to get in his face and talk to him, which is so funny because of prophetic people, it's like the weird, just the ones that, if they're just going to weird out and flake out for whatever reason.

They just want to go talk to him. And I finally got in her face. I said, don't talk to him. You talk to me. And she's like, but sir, I'm like, do not talk to him. Talk to me because I was a little more level-headed. And so, because he's like, if you hurt my baby, I'm going to break you. It was very intense.

But anyway, yes, she will never know. It's a surgery that you're in the hospital for about three days. But that is nothing compared to that is, they can fix it is what I'm saying. So if you have children that are dealing with these symptoms, just look, get a die test and look into it. It's very fixable. But I was so far past that I just, I had so much scar tissue, I just didn't know. So they know what the issue was and they had a hard time fixing it because I know this is like this, you almost died from this. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I was preaching and I was, I was opening a meeting and my husband said I just turned yellow. And I just, I didn't, I was like, oh my goodness, I thought I was going to pass out. So I went home and I said, honey, I'm just, we were, that was back when we were doing meetings until two o'clock in the morning, like revival meetings, like. I long for that. I'm telling you. Yeah. Days for days.

And so it was one of those nights where I'm like, I just, I've got to go home. And that's not something I ever did. And so I took the kids and I went home and I remembered he called and I said the pain is so intense. And so he came home and we took care of the, had the kids situated. And we went to the ER and when we did, I was just thinking, you know, I was maybe dealing with some girl issues or something because of where the pain and things were. And I was, but just so happens, they took a blood draw and they said, you cannot leave. And I was like, what?

Why? And they're like, we've got to get a specialist in here. Something is terribly wrong. You cannot leave. And so it was an all night deal of testing. And finally, when he came in, the doctor walked in. And I was there with my husband and I was there with Joseph. And so as we were there, as he walked in, he said, well, I don't know if you have hours or days.

He said, but you need to say your goodbyes. You're going to die. And it was just like, wait, what? And so we had enough sense back then to not say anything. And so Joseph stepped out of the room for a moment. And he welled up with tears for a moment and just grappling with the information he was just given. And he walked back in and I was just silent because I knew better. You know, I had enough of the word in me to know, you know, that's not the final word.

You know, they might have some facts, but I have the truth. I have the word of God. And so when he walked back in, he said, I strike down every word that that doctor just spoke over your life. We do not accept this. And in the name of Jesus, you will live and not die. And so we just started to go to work on it. But it ended up where I did go into dialysis for almost two. It was two and a half years, almost three.

Wow. And that dialysis is tough. it's not a fun place to be because there's no privacy. It's a chair, a machine, a chair, a machine, a chair, a machine. You're just all in a room together, and they hook you up to needles that you can see through because what they do is they take all the blood out of your body and they cycle it through this filter about 70 to 80 times. You're there for about four hours and you're there about, I was there three days a week.

and once and a while four, where it's basically a part-time job to stay alive because they have to filter your blood because your kidneys are no longer doing it. And then it's not only taking the bad out, it's also taking the good out as well. So it takes a toll on the body. Wow.

There would be grown men crying at those mechanical doors. I believe it. Because it's just, and women too, of course, whereas it's just, it's intense. Yeah. So I'm not, familiar with any of that stuff. I mean, up until this point with Lindsay, we've, her and I were just talking about, like, we've had good health in our lives and the people around us.

Yeah. So when they tell us, hey, your wife has cancer, you have decisions to make them, like, I don't, I'm not prepared for this at all. Yeah. So like dialysis, I mean, you're saying that they're taking your blood out of your body, putting it back in, you're awake for this. Yes. That's got to be weird. Yeah, well, I mean, there's different ways of doing it. So they can put a port in where that's the first surgery that I had that I woke up in, where they tunnel from your shoulder and they tunnel down and it connects underneath into your heart. And so it's a tube where you have these two tubes.

It's like an apparatus under, just like a plate under your skin with two tubes and a tube that goes to your heart. and they uncap them and then they attach them to this machine where your your heart is such a strong muscle that is like the main power source of what pumps your blood out of your body through the machine and pulls it back in again and so as one tube is going out the other one's receiving back in a new you know or the clean blood and so it just it was a very dark place I then later ended up getting where they put a fistula in your arm with, for me, I didn't have a, like a two or a stent or anything. They just literally made my vein big enough where they would put two needles in. And if that gets infiltrated, that's, that's a painful one.

I know that one. For those who might be aware of what that is, it's not a fun, it's not a fun day. But so, yeah, we would be in there and. I mean, I remember there was one day, Joseph's out in the parking lot, literally having a full-on God moment where the Lord's visiting him in his car. I mean, sounds about right. Yeah. Like the Lord was there and with him, he can tell you about it. It's pretty powerful.

But then the next thing you know, he hears fire trucks rolling up because there's a gentleman that there's a period when you get hooked up to the machines, your adrenaline just goes off the chain. So you are wired for like the first 40, 45 minutes. Wow. And then everybody starts to crash and everybody knows the cycle routine. Saying that to say, this gentleman waited until, like, as everything quieted down, and the nurses were done doing the rounds and all the things. And he literally pulled his tubes out because he wanted to die. He was just, he was done.

There was many people that I would minister to there where I had one lady come to me and say, my family already knows. I'm not telling the doctors here, but this is my last day. And with dialysis, if you miss one run, your lungs fill up with fluid and you die. You suffocate. And so, because they're keeping the fluids out of your body, if you, you know, because you swell up. But anyway, as he's doing this, I'm praying in the Holy Ghost, like, I'm like in Jesus name, Joseph's walking in and I'm hearing the nurse saying, sir, if you don't stop, I'm going to have to knock you out. And like, she and they are tough nurses.

They'd seen a lot. But anyway, yeah, dialysis is not fun at all. It's not a good day if you see flowers on the nurse's station because there was many times I got to know people there and minister to them there. And then the next, you know, run that I would come in, I would look to my chair. And I'm like, where's?

And I would look at the nurse's station. And I would just know because, family members would send flowers thanking the nurses for taking care of their loved ones. So, yeah, it was, but I also got to minister to a lot of people that I never would have met. Yeah. In all seasons. Yeah. So during dialysis, you had an experience with a doctor or was it a nurse?

No, yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm trying to recall because we don't use names in books. We're on camera. I got you.

So this doctor. Larry. Yeah, sure. Let's go with Larry. Dr. Larry. I think it's Dr. G. There's no way for anybody to know who this is. I believe I called him Dr. G.

He came in and I was alone and it was finally, he had told me like, no, we're going to, in the beginning when I was in the emergency room the first time, the very first experience. He's like, we're going to have you on dialysis. And I'm like, no, you won't. No, I believe God. And so there was a period of time there where I had to come in every day and get checked and all the things. And then finally my levels were to a point where when I went in and first got my first port put in, he was the one that was there and everybody had just left the room. It was like I was alone. And as he stood in front of me, he's like, hi, Heather, how are you?

And I'm like, I'm good. And all of a sudden his face changed. And he said, I told you I'd get you in that chair. Jeez. And it like came out of his face and out of his eyes. And it was like he kind of came back to. And I was like, in the name of Jesus. I was like, okay.

We're going to fight the good fight of faith. here. I mean, if there's nothing to fight, there's nothing to fight, right? There's no enemy to fight. And I was like, okay. And it was on after that. Wow. Wow.

But yeah, he just, his whole face changed and his eyes got, like, they turned almost black. And all he said was, I told you, we'd get you in that chair. And then he just kind of looked off. And he's like, so you're doing good? And it just, it was, yeah. Wow. So you have that experience with him. He says dialysis, you're like, no.

Then you're getting ready for dialysis. And he's like, I told you. And then what followed after that was, however long dialysis lasted, you spent in battle with, you know, sharing the gospel with people around you and ministering to people. Yeah.

So, like, again, the enemy continually oversteps. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Oh, definitely. And I always think of people who are either just newly believers and they haven't had the time or experience. Like I had my experience with the Lord. I always loved the Lord. I never walked away because of him. It was just circumcant. It's kind of like the children of Israel. Like they see the Red Sea open up. They see all these miraculous things. And then they get out there and they're like, why did you leave us out here to die? It would be better for us to have stayed back. in Egypt and you know what I'm saying? Like that this natural world is an interesting, it's an odd place where you can mess with

your head if you let it. But I'm saying that to say during these times, I had seasons of up and down. Like I was so full of faith. I mean, I was taking in the word. I was listening to messages to the point that I got completely healed and I got up and walked out of the dialysis unit. totally healed. The Holy Spirit spoke to me and said, you're healed.

Get up. And I don't recommend this unless you know the voice of the Lord, you know. But when you know, nobody can talk you out of it. And so I did. I just, I heard the Lord say, get up and get out right now. And I just started my run. And I just flagged the nurse down. And I was like, I got to go.

And she's like, what? You just started your run. and I said, I have an emergency. I need to, I just, I got to go. It's an emergency because it felt emergent to me. I like an emergency to me. And she's like, Heather, you can't just not have a run. I said, I know, but I've got to go.

And I got up and I left. And I'll never forget it because I came home and Joseph looked at me. He's like, what are you doing? And I said, I'm healed. And he's like, you're healed? And he's looking at me like, and he's not wanting to like, like give it any, like, no doubt, no fear, no unbelief because we'd been working, you know, believing God. And I said, I'm healed.

And he said, well, I guess we have something to be thankful for because it was Thanksgiving. I went two full weeks, almost a third week, where I'd had my blood done everything. I was like my levels were perfect. Like, I, perfect. And you don't, you don't have perfect. levels after missing a run and certainly not two and a half weeks of missing dialysis. And but then I, and this is for somebody. I know this is for somebody. And so we started talking with some people that, you know, we're so excited. We're like, we're just going to, we're going to tell someone,

you know, and just, you know, in faith and believing. And unfortunately, because we had been in a place of believing. We had been in a place of faith. We had gotten to a place of so fully, my heart was so fully persuaded that I knew I was healed and whole through many conversations. It came back and, you know,

concern can come across like care, but concern is also a form of, you know, lack of faith in a sense like, it's kind of like when the devil came to Adam and even said, did God say? Like with the questions, are you sure you're okay? Are you sure you're doing good?

And after a while of that, it kind of started to work on us to the point that I let it back in. It's easier if you're caged in and you don't let that animal in, you don't let it into your heart. But the moment you open the doors and you let that animal back in, it's, I mean, you believe what you say. And so we started talking differently. Then I started allowing my thoughts to go. And in the wrong direction, I kind of put my guard down, if you will. And then, of course, condemnation comes on me like, I was healed. And so when I came back in, they still tested me and the nurses were talking amongst themselves.

And they were like, she should be dead. Like they're all whispering to themselves. And of course, Joseph overheard them. And he's like, yeah, but that's Jesus. So, but anyway, I did end up back in there. I'm saying that for the reason of I had ups and downs going through this journey of being healed. You know, miracles are one thing. When I broke my neck and died, that's a miracle.

I didn't have time to pray. I didn't have time to fast. I didn't have time to get all my scriptures out. That's a miracle. that is a supernatural intervention from the Lord by healing is a journey. It truly is getting your mind renewed to the Word of God and taking his word above your circumstances and believing God more than your circumstances. The point that you're so fully persuaded that your heart is so full that it's an overflow of

then now you're just, that's when you start truly walking out your healing where you become healed and whole. and it was a journey for me, but I remember I got to the point I couldn't stand listening to. It was on the other side of when I'd been out of, you know, I was out totally healed. But when I'd come back, I kind of did this a little bit because of condemnation. What did I do? I was healed. How did I miss it? How did I lose it?

All these things where it comes against your mind. And it was like, what did I? Like, I've been praying. I've been reading the word. I've been taking copious amounts. of scripture. Like, I've nothing but if I wasn't reading the word, I was listening to the word. And I got to the point where it was almost agonizing, agonizing, even listening to teaching. I just, I couldn't even do it anymore because I got so upset. Like, what is it? I finally got to the end of myself. I said,

what is it? What do you want for me? What else can I do? And the Lord said, that's just it. It's you trying to do. It's you trying to, I've prayed, I've read. He said, it's not because of what you do. It's because of what I did for you. And I said, what is it? What can I do? And the Lord just simply said, get to know me. Don't get to know me topically on just healing. Get to know me. And so it all started to turn around when I just started to fall in love with Jesus all over again and realize, and not just fall in love with him, but realize how much he loves me. That he loves me so much and there's nothing I can do to change it. He just loves us.

And then it was a revelation, truly, I had to have a revelatory moment, a revelation of love of how much he loves me, and then falling in love with him so much that it just engulfed all the other stuff. It became bigger than my situation. Wow. That's powerful.

And I agree. I think there's a lot of people out there that will benefit from hearing that. And, I mean, I fall in line with that, too. I mean, I was like, trying to become a, have a doctor degree in healing. I was like, I'm going to find the right order of verses to it. I'm going to stand on one foot. I'm going to raise this hand.

I'm going to, you know, put your left hand in, put your left hand out. Turn it all about it. No, but really, he just, he just wants your whole heart. And when when that revelation comes of how much he loves you, just as you are saved. going to heaven. So has he bought and paid for healing and wholeness. And healing and wholeness are two different things. But it's true. You've got, you've got miracles. He's doing everything he can to get you to receive what he's already bought and paid for. It's already done. When he said, it is finished, it is finished. Healing is finished. Sickness is finished. Like he bought and paid

for it all, but it's us getting a revelation of what belongs to us and how much he loves us. And you don't have to earn it. You don't have to do 10 steps forward and two steps back and stand on one foot. That's all working out of your own strength. That's you toiling out of your own strength. But when you hand it over to him and say, no, I trust you. I'm healed. And you get to the point of like, I'm whole and you start to really see it. It wasn't until I started to see it in my mind. I saw myself well before I was actually well. And I'd be like, I'm good. Like I'm healed.

I am whole. And people are like, are you sure? Because you look gaunt. You're like 80 cents, you know, soaking wet. You're just, you're a buck at best and you're pale and you, you don't look well. But in my mind and in my heart, I was whole. I was absolutely whole. And again, that's, I can get into pray.

how praise works. You know, you have the lepers. You had the 10 that came and asked Jesus for healing. And they went off, you know, excited. And it was the one that came back and said, thank you. And Jesus said, where are your other friends? And they're, you know, they're all run into town. But he came back to say thank you.

And the other lepers left healed. Healed means it stops. So if they were missing fingers, nose, ears, whatever, it stopped. They were healed. But the one that came back, he said, go your way. It is, you know, your faith has made you whole. Whole means to be completely restored back to the original state that God intended, meaning if his fingers were missing, they grew back. His nose, it's back, ears, whatever.

So there's a power in Thanksgiving, thanking God for what he's provided. I'm just saying thank you. And shouting it from the rooftops, of course, being a testimony. Absolutely. Yeah. All right, let's talk about aliens. Yes, let's talk about. Dun, dun, done.

I'll bring it in for a landing then. I don't know if I said this earlier, but I got to say, I really believe this is the first time I ever talk to you, and you have a softer voice, and we were in a loud room. Yes. And I have trucker ears. So, I mean, I spend.

gears driving tractor trailer, the radio up all the way because you got to be able to hear it over the motor. You're killing your ears. And I'm like, oh, I'll go live forever. I'll be fine. So I had a hard time hearing everything that you were sharing with me. And I was like, I feel like there's something here. I just couldn't hear over all the noise.

So I remember reading, Joseph, I think you talked about in your book, I forget which book it was. it was one of your books that you wrote about it. But I want to have you share because, and then we can kind of pull some threads at it and stuff because gray's hot topic these days, UFOs, disclosure. Yeah. And we can say disclosure, deception, deception, disclosure. There's a lot of deception that's going along with this stuff. And I think your story is similar to other stories.

that I've heard. And, well, hearing people's stories about this stuff has really opened my eyes to what we're actually really dealing with. When I first started the show, I wasn't even interested in UFOs. Like, when I started the show, I was a trucker. I had no plans of starting a podcast. The Holy Spirit spoke to me, told me exactly who I was going to start the podcast with, didn't know the guy. A month later, he's calling me. And I was into the whole cryptid and Bigfoot stuff. And so I was like, okay. But I had zero interest in anything else outside of that. My first episode was Farmer C's two Sasquatch. As a farmer I saw, I just talked to in Pennsylvania. I'm telling you. I was already talking to the guy. I was, I was in this baby. Like, I was, I was into

the topics. I was already talking to this farmer about his experiences with these two Sasquatch. property, I think it was in Western Pennsylvania. I was like, hey, you want me my first episode? And then the second episode was an up-close encounter with a UFO. Third episode was actually my wife talking about her experiences with what they call a hat man when she was a child. She didn't know I had a name until I started talking about it. She's like, I've seen that. And then the fourth episode was Nephilim. So that was my first four episodes. It was kind of a variety. But I really didn't have much interest in anything outside. I was like, we're just going to do this, but I learned as the show is going on, right? So this coming Tuesday at the time of this

recording, this coming Tuesday, will be episode 800. Wow. Congratulations. I think we're going to do something special for a thousand. I think I might like get a facility and maybe do a big live show or something out. Yeah. But over 800 episodes, you hear different things, you know, and you start hearing similar things. Like you mentioned about the wind sound. I've heard that before. I've literally heard several people say, it sounds like a windmill. I'm like, yeah, it's almost like I know it's coming, right? But I learned things and it shaped not only my opinion, but it shaped my view on what's happening around us. And we just, nine days ago celebrated, not celebrated, that's the wrong word. Nine days ago was one year exactly to me releasing an episode that I had been working on. for like three years straight. And very super nationally driven episode of things that sound like it's out of a movie. And the reason I worked on it so long was because it really, there were things that I could pull at. And I was like, if this is true, then this has to be true. And it was true.

I tracked down people, talked to people that were associated with the story and they were confirming these things. And they didn't know the people I was talking to. It was quite a journey. But it invited a lot of spiritual attack. We were pulling the curtain back on darkness. And up to that point, I would say I did it casually in the sense of like, ah, whatever, God call me dudes, he's got me, he's going to protect me,

I'm not worried about anything. Well, it's a long story, but we're talking about like ancient gods, people working for ball and other entities. And it became such a real thing to me. I was like, this is actually happening.

And it does something to you because I'm like, if this is happening, then I have to operate according to what I believe is happening and what I haven't been able to disprove. And that's why over the last year, the show has shifted a lot. There's people who've come in my life, like you guys, right around that time, actually, this episode, And it changed the way I have to conduct myself as the host, right? And when it comes to E.T., E.T., whatever that is, Grays, you can only talk to so many people before, again, one plus one equals two.

And I can't pretend I don't think certain things for the comfort of a viewing audience. And so I had to make an intentional decision that I'm not going to be a sellout because that's the definition of a sellout. Somebody who just does something. It keeps to keep it as is so that the money keeps coming and everybody's happy. Yeah. But I'll just say before you even tell your story, these graves are demonic. 100% demonic. And people are having ongoing interactions with them in detail extensively.

and I can't come off the fact that I think it's 100% demonic. And I think people, and I think it's a physical, maybe not so physical at times, but it's a physical manifestation of a very supernatural thing. And you had an experience. And I think it's worth pulling at that because of who you guys are. I mean, you know, it's not like you're Heather from down the street. You know, like you guys have a ministry and there's a, a lot of people who know who you are. And I think it really kind of holds a lot of weight for people

to say, man, maybe I don't have to suffer through what I've been going through alone because Heather had this experience too. Maybe I'm not crazy, you know? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And that's the thing. So when I came to talk to you, because I like, I have questions. Yeah. I, this is not a space that was popular. This is not like, especially being in a space of ministry. Like, you just don't want to go out there be like, I saw a gray and they'll be like, you're crazy. Get off the stage. Pretty much. Like, you're nuts.

But then when I started hearing about you and I'm like, and these stories and things, I'm like, I have questions because I haven't talked to anybody about this or I hadn't even heard anybody else's experiences about this at all. And so I'm kind of like, okay, I know I'm not crazy. Like, I'm not. I'm like a sound person. I have like, I believe in Jesus. I'm like, this is not something that I go looking for.

Like, so living in a very spiritual household, there would be different things that would begin to manifest and happen. And I, like, since I was a child, when I would have anything that felt like fear or anything that would feel like supernatural that was not good, every time out of my mouth, I would say, unless you are Jesus, the Holy Spirit or God, the Father himself, I do not want to see you. You cannot be here.

Like, I would shut that stuff down. So then when I started to hear about you, I was like, hang on a minute. Other people have had this. Like, it's not just some, like, trying to be, you know, come on. What's the mysterious or mysteries? Unsolved mysteries. Yeah, unsolved mysteries. or it's not some, like, this isn't, oh, come on, what's the name of the town, Area 51,

Roswell. Yeah. I'm like, you know, you would hear things or a movie or whatever. But then when I started hearing about you, I'm like, I have some questions myself. So, yeah, so then we started talking, and I know it was quite loud in there. But yeah, I definitely had an experience, and I agree with you, they're evil. Mm-hmm. Pure evil.

So what happened? What happened? You got to tell us. Okay. So we were living out in the mountains of Colorado at the time, like in the middle of nowhere. And so it's pitch black out there. The stars are amazing. But as we were there, it was in the middle of the night and I was laying in my bed and I don't know why I woke up.

I can't tell you why, but my eyes just began to open. And when they did, I'm laying in my room and it was dark out. But it was like this darkness that flooded my room that was blacker than black. I just couldn't see your hand in front of your face. And it was accompanied with the worst kind of fear you could possibly imagine. I beat fear as a kid because I dealt with it as a kid. So when this came into the room, I had such fear. And simultaneously, the best way I can describe it is if you can see sound.

and so it was like a light. This is strange as from where I come from. You don't talk about stuff like this. Do it. But it was like a beam of light and I could see it in my mind's eye where it was arcing from our front patio, a beam of light would arc and hit me in the head and arc back and forth. And as it was doing it, I could hear the words come out here.

come out here. And so being that now I've been through some battles, I'm not just some little girl, some new Christian. I've, you know, I've been through transplant, you know, I've been through kidney dialysis, kidney transplant, all the things. I've, you know, seen all kinds of stuff. I'm pretty strong in the Lord. And, and so I immediately recognize it. And it felt like such a violation against the of what I carry on the inside. It felt like such a violation against the Lord. And so as this light, beam of light, is tapping me in the forehead, back and forth,

going back and forth in this sphere, I sat up in bed and I swung my legs over on the bed and before my feet even hit the ground, I had the presence of God come on me so strong. I started speaking in tongues. I started praying in the spirit. And it was like a spirit of might that came on me. Like I, you know, when Samson ripped the gates and the posts off,

he drugged those gates 40 miles. Like he had the spirit of God, like supernatural strength come on him outside of himself for a purpose and a reason. And so saying that to say, I had such a spirit of might that came on. me. I was praying in the spirit and my feet hit the ground. I'm praying in tongues. And as I open our bedroom door, we had a walkway with, we had stairs that were slotted that went up, you know, you can see through them that went up to our loft. But through this walkway as well, we could, I could see our front patio door, sliding door. And as I opened my, flung my door open, I'm praying in the spirit, man. I've got

the spirit of God on me. Like I literally watched it come up. out of me like, it was like not, it felt like an absolute violation. I was like where the spirit of God on the inside of me was not having what was what I was about to see. And so not even knowing what I was about to see as I ripped the door open, I looked straight to my patio door and here stood a gray underneath our patio light. It's just standing there staring at me through the glass. and I had, you know, in milliseconds, you know, stuff's going on in my mind, but I was just, I'm like,

I am going to take this thing on with my bare hands because it felt like such a violation. Like, who do you think you are standing on my property? I am blood bot. I'm a believer. I don't put up with this mess. And so as I go charging towards my, I mean, later I thought, what would you have done? I was, I don't know, getting a scrap with a gray, like fist a cup. Oh, so let's go.

That's a great story. Yeah. And so as I, my foot hit the end of the stairwell, because I had had so much time spending time with the Lord, I know the voice of God. I know when the Lord speaks to me. And as soon as my foot hit the end of the stairwell, I heard the Lord say, go upstairs and pray for your dog. Now you have to understand.

We had an English mastiff, which was my baby. That was not quite 200 pounds, but. Big dog. Yeah. And this dog was trained to it. He had taken on bear. He had taken on cats, coyotes, you know, we're in the mountains, mountain lines, all the things. Out, you know, out Wolverine.

There's all kinds of stuff out there. And he was not afraid of anything. But he was up on the landing, looking down out the patio window, whimpering and crying at this thing. It's not a fearful dog. is a very brave dog. But the Lord said to me, go upstairs and pray for your dog. And I was like, what? Like, this thing is standing on my porch.

Like, how dare it? I'm not having it. And the Lord just simply said it again, go upstairs and pray for your dog. So you turned and went up the stairs. And I sat on the landing. And as I sat next to my dog on the landing, I was looking at it. And those black eyes were beady eyes. They weren't beady.

They were big. looking back at me and I was aware of it and it was aware of me but it got really still so it wasn't talking and I wasn't hearing come out here anymore

it got really still so then I just I started to pray for my dog and my dog had a cancer on its hand and so as I began to pray for my dog I looked at it for a few more seconds

but then I just you know put my attention on on our dog and as I did as my, my dog got healed. And it went down. It was completely dissolved as I was praying for my dog.

And then I began to look up again. And when I did, it was gone. And I later just said to the Lord, Lord, what was that about? Like, what was all that? And I, you know, and I wanted to talk to you because I'm like, there was moments where I wanted to talk to you about some of the practical things. Like, have you heard about this? like, why didn't I talk about it the very next day?

Like, why didn't I even think to have the thought to say something, like something like that, you talk about it. And so, but when I asked the Lord, I said, what was that about? And he said, you have better things to do, like pray for your dog than to deal, than to deal with that trash. Wow. And he called it trash. You have better things to do, like pray for your dog, than even deal with.

something that's low level like that. But it was not kind. It was not friendly. It was there waiting. And it was waiting, I believe, it was waiting for permission by me. If I would have given it permission, if I would have opened the door, then it was probably game on in a way that I, that I have no idea. I can't imagine, nor do I want to. But the Lord was like, no, you have better things to do like pray for your dog than go and get in a tangle with something like that. But that's why I was coming to because I was like, why didn't I say any, like I, after thinking it through, I'm like, am I a fraud? Like I started dealing with all these thoughts. Like, why didn't I think to have the thought to even talk about it?

It was like. Because you didn't talk to Joseph about it. No, no one. And I didn't even think to have the thought that I should say something. Like it's kind of like surgery. when you've had major surgery, you don't even think to have the thought, like, how did I get from the hospital room to the car to this?

Like, your memory is like, it's like short-term memory is just gone. And so that's why I was coming to you. I'm like, have you ever heard of this? Like, what is that? And so, or have you heard of anybody experience? Like, why don't we talk about it? And even still, I'm like, what was the time frame of that? There's certain pieces that I'm, you know,

like, Lord, I know what I saw. I know what I encountered. But it was, yeah, it was. Do you remember going back to bed after that? No. Interesting. I just wonder, because I hear different experiences, and it just makes me wonder if you are actually physically up out of your bed or not.

That's a good question. No. I think because people have described things to me that in their description to me, it's sounds very physical until they say something like, and I looked back at my bed and there I was, you know, or something like that. And so do you have any recollection of even looking back at your bed? No. Because it happens by, I don't know, I don't want to say by accident.

I'll use Jack in an example. I'm sure he won't mind. If he does, he edits the show. He can take it out. But Jack came in here, I think he's either earlier this year or late last year. And I'm not going to have all the details perfect, but it was within a few nights. period, he had two experiences where he got up out of his bed and looked back at his bed and he was still laying there. And every time he looked back at his bed, the shock of it, because I think

that's what I've heard is that like when you realize you're having this out-of-body experience and it's, and that shock, it snaps back into your body. And I think, Jack, if I remember correctly, you even said that you were snapped back in. Like, it was just like, as soon as he realized, just boom, he was back in his body. It's not like he's doing anything. Like Jack's not conjuring things. He's not trying to have these experiences that just happened. Oh, yeah.

Woken out of a dead sleep. It makes you wonder, because it's easy to say, and not your story in particular, but just maybe even his, it's easy to say like, oh, maybe that was an attack or something. But I wonder sometimes if God allows situations that happen for whatever reason. And your situation, the room growing black, and that's when you saw the light coming in, right? And you started hearing the voice come out here. Yeah. I mean, I think you were probably targeted for sure.

And you're right. I think if you would have opened up a door of communication. And that communication would have been like, I'm going to knock you out. there's communication there. Yeah. It does open a door that, I don't know if we totally, we don't totally understand what you would have been opening it up to, you know? And I think it's so, it's profound.

Like you loved your dog. Is your dog still alive? No. Okay. But yes, he was my baby. Right. And so, like, it's like a kid. But at the same time, it's like God saying, for you, it's a dog, for somebody else could be,

like, you have better things, better things to do. Like, go pray for your goldfish than deal with this nonsense. Yeah. These peons. They constantly are overstepping, trying to make themselves more than what they are. You have better things to do with your time, you know? Yeah. And the fact your dog was healed is wild.

Yeah. And how long did it take you to start talking about this? That's the, that is the thing that I'm still like, was it months? Mm-hmm. Maybe, maybe a couple months. How long ago did it happen? It probably was somewhere around, it could have been like, I don't know if it's 2016, 2017. Okay.

And that's the thing. That's why I'm like, I should be able to know this. Like, I should be able to recall, was it 2018? It was somewhere in there. And it's like, why can't I grasp that? And so that's a little bit too. I was like, do you know about it? this. So wild things happen that I don't have definitions for understanding, you know,

I wish I had a doctorate, theologian degree in this. It's great. But I'll use an example here that's kind of related in a sense. Because I look at you guys as your leaders in the faith. And there's a guy here in Middle Tennessee who is a worship pastor. he's a contractor. He has his own business. He coaches his kid's softball. He's very busy. He came on my show, very shy, but he wanted to share with me his one experience where he had what I would call a lucid dream, where he had an encounter with, one would say a werewolf. Culturally, they call it dogman now. But he had this dream and this thing went to attack his family. And he got in between and it started tearing him up.

He wakes up sitting up in his bed and he scratches on his back. One could say you did that in your sleep as a nightmare. But about a month later, him and his son are walking through the woods and what he dreamt was standing before him and his son. And so like, I'm like, okay, Hunter, that's a wild story, you know. And one day I'd like to talk to your son, you know. But he had come out here to the studio then for another interview. and he has a similar experience where he he actually um a two actually now i think about so one

he had uh an experience where i believe he came out of his body and i think if i remember correctly he was close to the ceiling and he looked down to his right or left and out a window was a gray standing there and that's why i kind of asked you if you were if you have you did you look back to see if you're laying there obviously you wouldn't think to do that. But like for him, I believe, I don't think he was actually physically floating. I think he had an antibody experience during this encounter with this gray. But he also had an experience. And this actually ties in with your husband, be honest. Believe it or not. I'm not sure if I ever told you the whole detail here. And maybe one of these days, I think what I'm going to, we constantly think about

different ideas. And so people watching this right now. Let me know if you'd be interested in this. Sometimes I think about taking member episodes that the public haven't heard and I do a watch along and I actually react to what was said on the episode. I think maybe this would be a good one to do. Because Hunter is sitting where you're sitting and he said to me, does the number mean anything to you?

Well, the number is the same place you went to first is my house number. And I looked at him and I was like, yeah, I looked at Jack and I was like, but we can't talk about that. That's my house number. he goes, okay. And he said, I had a dream and I was standing at your house and that was your house number. And he described what my house looks like. You were just there today, the way the driveway is shaped. He described the road that my driveway comes off of, everything accurately. And he said,

and he had texted me about this, this quote unquote dream months before he had come to the studio. and I didn't remember. And he said, you were getting out of your truck. And I said, was my truck pulled in or backed in? He's like, I was backed in. And I was like, okay, that's right. I back in. And he goes, you're going into your house,

and there's these two hooded figures following you. And he said, you walked around the side of your house into the back, and they followed you in your house. And that messed me up. That messed me up. And at the time, I had just talked, are you familiar with Dave Brian? He's out in California, Glad Tidings Assembly of God, I think. That sounds familiar.

He adopted one of Anton LeVay's daughters. Okay, yes. And I had just talked to him. And I was just like, I got to talk to somebody before Alan was in my life and all you guys. And I called him. And without skipping a beat, he said, those are druids. I didn't even ask him. Like, I was telling him the story.

He interrupted me. He's like, those are druids. He's like, you have druids coming after you. And I was like, druids. Because the whole time I was sitting there thinking, demonic. And I'm like, why people don't like me? I was like, come on. What's not to like?

I was like, I'm just Tony. Yeah. But I had that. And I don't remember the rest of our conversation. A lot of times when my mind gets blown or something that happens, I like I don't remember anything else you said like I'm just like I'm off into somewhere else and that's what happened there he was talking I was like I don't know what he's saying because I'm like what do you mean there's druids you know like what does this mean and I didn't really have anybody to really kind of walk with me through it much you know I have my pastor and stuff but like there's not like really a whole lot of people who can walk with you and say here's how you handle druids coming after yeah right you know here's here's here's Here's this bottle. Drink it before you go to sleep. Just kidding, kids, don't do that. But the first time I met Joseph was two Augusts ago at Allen's conference.

And I remember, I think I ran into him when I was going to the green room and he followed me to the green room. And we were talking. And he's talking about, I remember the first thing he said to me. He said, do you pray in the spirit? I was like, no. I was like, I was raised to somebody like God. That sounds like Joseph. Yeah. And I think you even said something like, can I pray for you to pray in the spirit? I was like, I don't know, you know.

But he wound up praying for me. Willingly. I was willing. I was willing participant. But he's praying. And he goes, in you two witches, I see you. And I bind you in the name of Christ. And I was just like, how did he know about that?

You know? And I say all that. I don't know exactly why I went all on that. But the idea that Hunter had that experience of out of body with the gray, and I believe Hunter with his experiences because of the details he's related to me about my husband, unless he's a stalker, a crazy stalker, which I hope not. Joseph's like, no, just just kidding. I've gone down the road with him and I believe he's telling me the truth.

But I think that there is something that happens during these experiences where people are having these experiences. But even the experience itself is way more supernaturally driven than what the person experience realized. and I don't know what causes it. I think Elie Marzuli talks about, in fact, I think he's one of the first ones I ever heard talk about cases where people didn't remember to even talk about it. And then I started having that on the show

where people would not even just have an experience shared together like they see a UFO and they never talk about it. They had this whole experience together in a car. And not one word after it's over, not one word. Nobody talked about it. I've also had people say that they've had experiences where they're actually seeing something together. Like you and Joseph are going on a early morning hike. It's 4 o'clock in the morning.

You're walking the dog. And you both have this experience. And you saw a gray. But what Joseph saw and recalls, he's like, I didn't see a gray. I saw a really tall owl. and you're like, an owl. Like, what are you talking about, dude? It was a great.

And so, like, there's this, there's a real supernatural element to all this. And I don't totally understand it. But I do believe it's deeply ingrained in spiritual warfare. I think it's, I, with one of the episode I talked to you about that happened a year ago, I walked away understanding that there is constant war happening around us and that war has layers to it. and I'm not going to understand it all ever, but I have to act appropriately. Yeah. And I think your experience, a hunter's experience, and the countless other experiences that I've

had on the show, I think it should push people to the fact that the supernatural realm is real. It's active. There is an enemy that's seeking your destruction every moment you're breathing. Absolutely. And you need to act accordingly. Yeah. You know? They don't take time off.

Have you, did you walk away from that experience feeling like this was a spiritual attack? Or did you like, did you think this thing was, I don't know, E.T. from another planet? Yeah, no. It was, it was more so like an encounter that I was having. It was very, like it, it wasn't translucent. It was very tangible. It was very real. It's not, I mean, it was not see-through or translucent or anything. It was very dense. And, um, And so more so, just everything that you're saying and what I'm hearing you say, I'm grateful that my first response, because not ever, I don't know that everybody would do this, first response is speaking in tongues and praying. And, and I would say what I walked away from once it, you know, kind of all came to me. Because I have, I have such a need to be intellectually honest all the time. Like I want to give details of, he's laughing already. one, two, three.

Like, I want to take you through every step all the way to 10 where Joseph's more, one, 10. Okay. Did we land the plane? Okay, good. Bottom line. We good? Yep.

And I have a need to like, and that's why I'd grappled with it so much because I'm like, there are pieces here that I don't have. So I didn't want to talk about it because unless I can nail down what, what this all was, it didn't feel even right to talk about it in a sense. because, you know, if I didn't have explanations or if there were just even pieces missing, especially with the sense of time in a sense that I couldn't quite put my finger on or why didn't I talk about it till later. But the one takeaway I would say was, is through what I experienced, I felt the power of God.

Like when I talked about God breathed on the inside, that is what can't, it's like a tube of toothpaste. What's in there is what's going to come out. So if you're a fearful person, that's, fear's going to react, or if you're an anxious person, or if you're, you know, whatever's in there, when you get squeezed, that's what's going to come out. And so as a sense, almost like a bystandard, because it was just, it invaded my space. It was like, it was invaded on me in a sense. The thing that I could say was, is when I was put in that situation, I had such a realization of how

magnificent our God is in us and through us. And so when you're putting the word in, and you're, like the scripture says, you got to, by the washing of the water of the word, by renewing your mind, reading the word of God, it keeps your mind sound. You know, I do not have a spirit of fear, but of love, power, and of a sound mind. And as you are constantly taking that in, it's just, believe me, it is helpful when you have those things in place. That's so encouraging. It really is encouraging. I mean, the fact that knowing that what you're filled with is going to be what comes out in those times of need, it should just let everybody understand that.

Just prepare now. Yeah. Prepare now. Don't wait. Fill yourself up. Don't wait for crisis. Just do it every day. Yeah.

Yeah. And it will come out. Absolutely. That's wild. Your book, Unlocking Heaven's Truth. Yes. It's available everywhere. Yes.

Yes. Including my website, Slingshotlibrary.com. So we have a bunch of books on there, and yours is one of them. And it's Tony's recommended reads. And so people can go check it out. Awesome.

And I highly encourage it because I spent a few hours on the front porch yesterday reading it. And I was just like, you know, I was telling Jack, I don't know if it's because I know you guys that it was more like, man, page Turner, right? But like, it's just, it's so easy to read. And it's just filled with, it's like your walk and your life and your experiences and how God has moved. And you walk away feeling very encouraged.

Thank you. That is exactly what I was looking for because there were so many different seasons that I truly was at the end of myself. So if I could do anything, I would, I want there to be not just an element. I want to bring hope in the worst circumstances, in the hardest places, that there's still hope, and that you continue moving forward and trusting the Lord above your circumstances. You will see it to the other side. I used to have a dope dealer. Now I'm a hope dealer.

Love it. And that's a wrap. And I look forward to the after party because I can tell he's got, you guys are going to have some fun stuff to bounce off of each other. This has been wonderful. Awesome. This has been wonderful. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Oh, sir, when silent, and your strength was gone. You were counting your words, trying not to fall, but I was holding your breath before you call. Step out of the noise. your arm and down I saw you shaking but you never drown there's a place beyond fear where mercy grows let's go somewhere only saw you on the table between the dark and light felt your names heard your quiet fight You thought you were leaving

But I whispered Stay my side We're broken beyond repair But I was rewriting you right there Let's go I should stay close He heard the lies that whispered You're on your own