The Confessionals - 869: A Ghost Hunter’s Escape From the Occult

Episode Date: June 9, 2026

What happens when a former ghost hunter realizes the spirits she spent years chasing were never what they claimed to be? In this episode, Tony sits down with Kristina Costanza to unpack her journey from Catholic roots to paranormal investigation, witchcraft, psychic practices, and New Age deception. Kristina shares how curiosity opened doors to darker encounters, including terrifying manifestations, spiritual oppression, and a shadowy presence that followed her home. As her life spiraled through fear, depression, occult practices, and failed attempts to save herself, she began to discover that no ritual, crystal, sage, or spirit guide could set her free. Her testimony takes a powerful turn when Jesus breaks through the deception, lifts the veil from her eyes, and leads her into true freedom. This is a raw conversation about spiritual warfare, the danger of occult doors, and the unmatched authority of Christ over darkness.Please pray for Tony's wife, Lindsay, as she battles breast cancer. Your prayers make a difference!If you’re able, consider helping the Merkel family with medical expenses by donating to Lindsay’s GoFundMe: https://gofund.me/b8f76890📕 Pre-order Tony's Book: https://a.co/d/0bJS3SaVBecome a member for ad-free listening, extra shows, and exclusive access to our social media app: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinThe Confessionals Social Network App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZThe Counter Series Available NOW:The Counter (YouTube): WATCH HEREThe Counter (Full Episode): WATCH HERETony's Recommended Reads: slingshotlibrary.comIf you want to learn about Jesus and what it means to be saved: Click HereMerkel Media Apparel: merkmerch.comKristina CostanzaInstagram | Facebook | YouTubeSPONSORSGHOSTBED: GhostBed.com/tonyQUINCE: quince.com/tonyIVERMECTIN: twc.health/tonyVENICE AI: https://venice.ai/theconfessionalsRUMBLE WALLET: https://rumblewallet.onelink.me/bJsX/ConfessionalsCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/theconfessionals/Discord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelProduced by: @jyorkofficialOUTRO MUSICJoel Thomas - Joel's PsalmYouTube | Apple Music | Spotify

Hey, everyone, before we get to this week's show, this is just your weekly reminder to please continue to pray for my wife, Lindsay. She is battling breast cancer right now, and we're praying for complete healing in Jesus' name. Thank you. Merkel. Media. This was all circulating around the base that a giant had to kill, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, boning fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear.

When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. He's out of the cave, and he starts running and firing up this giant. Well, the giant moves. He's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast. And spears, Dan, holds him up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face. They basically decapitate him. Got closer, got closer, got closer, got closer, when he got about 15 yards away from me, I raised that 12 days and I blow this head off.

I feel something pulling at my leg, and I look over and there are two small gray entities, and they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed. I reached my hand into this bush, and I touch air. Couldn't breathe, and I couldn't move, because I know I'm seeing a monster. Welcome to the show, everybody. You're listening to The Confessionals Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here. If you want to be on the show and talk to me, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is Contact at theconfessionalspodcast.com. That's Contact at theconfessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, the Confessionalspodcast.com. Hit the contact section and you can reach me that way as well. Either it works for me, just get a hold of me. If you want more shows on a weekly basis, go ahead to the confessionalspodcast.com slash join or just hit the join button and become a member and get access to all the extra episodes we put out all three. history and moving forward. Every Thursday, we drop a bonus episode for members only on the website and on our exclusive members app, which you can download in the Apple App Store and Google Play Store.

Hope to see you there on the other side of the memberships. All right, friends, listen, I have an announcement to make for over a year now. I have been talking about me writing a book and the time has come. It is now available for pre-order. The book is called The Confessionals Exposing Warring kingdoms, the hidden truth behind UFOs, cryptids, and spiritual warfare. And thankfully, I have a good friend named L.A. Marzuli who was willing to write the forward for the book. So it is forwarded by L.A. Marzuli. This book is about my journey through the supernatural, starting in my childhood, how God has moved my life specifically to be geared towards these topic matters. And as I wrote this book, it became more and more apparent to me that even before the podcast started,

God was laying the foundation for me to be able to have conversations with people about the supernatural, including the time, this is going to be chapter four, including the time that I spent three hours at a Satan's house where he was trying to get me demonically possessed and I didn't even know it. This is going to be all in the book, The Confessionals, Exposing Warren Kingdoms. I hope you guys pre-order it. The more pre-orders that come before the release date in October, the more it will help the algorithm know to push it because there's actually people really interested in the book. So pre-orders are extremely, extremely important.

I hope you guys go ahead and pre-order your copy today. The Amazon link is in the description below. So I hope you enjoy it when October comes. All right, today we have Christina Costanza coming on the show. She is a former ghost hunter and paranormal TV personality who spent years deep inside the world of EVPs, haunted locations, tarot, psychic readings, and occult practices. During one investigation in the Georgia woods, she saw what she saw what she was. She described as a goblin-like demonic face,

orange and gray, rotting and decaying, with wide eyes, seething as it moved towards her. And what happened next became a prime example of something spiritual manifesting in the physical. The encounter followed her home, tormented her, and eventually became part of the testimony of how Jesus Christ pulled her out of this deception, broke the enemy's hold on her life, and gave her a mission to expose the darkness while pointing people back to the cross. Let's get to Christina right now. Christina Costanza, how are you?

Very good. I'm glad you're here. I'm very glad I'm here. Yeah. So you're coming from the Northeast. And do people know where you live as far as state goes? Massachusetts, if they don't. I wasn't sure if I was allowed to say that or not.

But, you know, I have a friend, Phil, who is from Massachusetts. He's been down to the studio a couple of times. he's been on my show a couple of times. We went to Bible College together. Cool. But he started doing like paranormal investigations and stuff. I don't know if it was paranormal investigations. It was like he was going out in the woods and he was just recording stuff and things would happen. That's paranormal investigation.

Yeah. Got it. But he's not anymore. I guess I haven't talked to him, but some things kind of happened. And he realized there's some bad things happening around him and needed to stop. But he's in my show intro, and anybody listening, he's the guy who says, dude, he slithered over to me. He had a friend that started manifesting back in the day, and his friend literally slithered like a snake across the floor towards him.

But him and I have talked several times about Salem, Massachusetts, and the history there. And do you feel like Massachusetts in the area has a heaviness when it comes to spiritual things because of the history of Salem? What's your perspective? Like, I didn't even tell you we're going to talk about this. It just came to my mind. I'm wondering what your perspective is of that area because when I moved down here, I left the Philly area. And I felt like there was just weight lifting off me. Like, I felt like I was leaving something behind.

And then coming down here and learning the culture, I, And there's definitely principalities that are regional here. And I started learning more about that. And I felt like, and I think I was just talking to the guys earlier this week about it, I feel like Philadelphia has like some kind of dark, heavy principality over it. And I'm wondering with Salem, Massachusetts, if you feel like there could be something to that. That's something I think about a lot. And I've like me and my husband talk.

And that Salem, I believe, means peace. It's like it's a Hebrew word. Really? And when you think about it, all of the Puritans that were living there, they were trying to, you know, live for God, religious freedom. And now when you go there, it's the witch city. That's the nickname. It's all witchcraft stores. Like, that's where I would go get my supplies from.

And I would do psychic readings there, investigations there. And I feel like because it was such a, I don't know, like religious freedom, I guess, that the Lord, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the. darkness kind of targets these places first and there's such a heaviness there but i meet a lot of christians that also try to do ministry up there and reach out to these people but you go there and it's just it's very very demonic you know if you go during Halloween season there's actually the the church i don't think it's the church of satan it's the satanism you know there's like two different ones there's the satanists they have a whole church with like a baffamit idol big statue there so i definitely That's there.

That's there. Wow. Right in Salem. And I used to want to go back in the day and like visit it, but I definitely think there's a lot. What do you want to do in there? Oh, you know, pet the Baph Met Statue? I thought it was cool. I was so edgy.

It was very edgy, so much edge. But I definitely think there's a lot of warfare going on because the culture has allowed all of these things and all the occult, the witchcraft, the Satanism. I think there's just a heaviness over that area in particular. But a lot of Massachusetts as well, if you just look. look at the culture and politics at what we've allowed up in the northeast. Yeah. We're coming from a very similar area. Yeah.

Is that location that you're talking about? Is that the one that's like in a house or something? Like I see some influencers I've seen over the years go into some location. I think it looks like the same location and they walk in and there's a bathmit statue right there when you walk in this little lobby. But I always felt like that the building was. like some kind of house or something. It wasn't actually like a corporate building or anything. No, well, if you ever go to Salem, it's very small, it's a lot of small houses.

It's such an old, old town or city. I don't know what it is, but everything is just so old. So I'm sure they have an older building. I never got to go officially. Praise God. But I think it is right in that lobby. I think, was it Bryce Crawford? Yeah, he was most recent.

Yeah. He went there and I watched this video. I'm like, oh, so that's what the inside. Looks like I had friends that would go there every now and then. And I'm just, people kind of think it's thrilling and it's just different counterculturally. So people don't necessarily believe in Satan is like Satan and all that stuff, but they go there just because it's anti-Christian. Yeah. Yeah.

Because I saw he went in there and I, I recognized it. But I think my friend Rick Renner, he has a church in Russia. he's been he's been in russia for 30 years when the USSR fell he and a couple thousand pastors went to russia as missionaries essentially and he's like one of the last ones remaining um but his son phil i think he goes all over the country as an evangelist but not like preaching on stages evangelism like he'll go to um what's it burning man out in the desert uh and i i i i I remember seeing him go to that location, and they went in and just started singing worship music right there in front of the Baphomet statue. And it's like I've seen several influencers do that going in there and stuff.

And to be honest with you, part of me wants to just in a similar vein go and not like tore it, but, you know, walk through it, covertly, praying. over it. Anointed. Yeah. I bind every spirit. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, you know, with lack of better terms, it's, it's warfare, baby, you know? It's like, why, why? And at the same time, I think there is something to be said about, uh, not going places that the Lord hasn't told you to go to. Yes. Like, you have to have, like, authority from God to go. Yes. I just got chills from that. Yeah. You ever get that confirmation from the Holy Spirit. That's just me where like the Lord's not going to give you grace to go somewhere that he's not calling you to go to. And I feel like if you're going outside of his will, it's going to crush you. And you're going to just, you're not called to go there. And the Lord gave me a vision a long time ago to go back to Salem and pray for people and reach people. And I'm like, well, I can do that. I've been there. I know what they're walking through. I know what these people are thinking. And I understand where they're coming from. And I think a lot of times the Lord calls us out of something. just so in the right time and his timing, not before we're ready, that he can send us back.

Yeah. Proclaim the good news. Yeah. I imagine going out in Salem on Halloween on the street is probably a lot of people. It's probably like a party or something. And if you go out there with the idea of street evangelism, I bet whoever is involved in doing that is going to have some serious spiritual war. fear show up. Oh yeah. I bet you gotta be armored up, prayed up, and just have all the people behind you praying for you. Yeah. But people need it. They're so desperate for, people are so

desperate for spiritual encounters. If you see, I just notice it in the culture. Everyone is spiritual. That's what I used to call myself as well. I was spiritual, but I wouldn't define myself as anything because everyone's searching. And these people are out there. They're celebrating, having a good time, but they're also, they don't know what they're doing. They don't understand the doors they're opening, the agreements they're coming into and what they're inviting into their lives. And it's not until someone is going to obey the Lord and speak truth over them and share the good news of who Jesus is and why he came to set them free from all that. If freedom comes from hearing, so if no one's going to say it to them, I mean, the Lord can do

anything thing. He can meet anybody anywhere at any time. But we are called to go and talk to people that are stuck. Yeah. And so you have this background in ghost hunting, witchcraft, occult, paranormal research, all that stuff. But it's not like you came from a family that, you know, they bequeathed it to you. Like I often use this family as an example because it's so dramatic. Like earlier last year, I had a father-daughter here from Canada. He and his wife were into shamanism. They were shamans. And they were deep into it.

They were teaching other people. It was the lifestyle. Wow. They raised their daughter like that. And their daughter was deep into the yoga. She studied under people in India. She was really into it. now they're all Christians.

Him and his wife one night were watching TV, Sid Roth on TV, and there was a call to salvation. They stood up in their living room, gave their lives the Lord, and a couple of years later, their daughter did as well. But she was into the stuff because she was raised through it. You weren't, though. Is that right? No.

So how does this all start for you then? Yeah. First of my kind in my family. And maybe the last, right? First and last. That's right. Jesus broke that chain. The devil tried to build that chain. But Jesus broke it. So I grew up right outside of Boston, Irish Catholic family. We weren't atheists, but we weren't like reading our Bibles every day or anything. I went through all my sacraments. I loved God.

But I didn't really know what the Word of God said. So I had my first spiritual encounter when I was 14 years old. I heard a disembodied voice in my grandmother's attic. I was trying to go to sleep and I just hear right into my ear. And I was just like, what is that? And but this curiosity sparked within me, but it wasn't anything that I thought I could do anything with really. So I just kind of let that slide. And a couple of years later, I did hear another disembodied voice. And this time it was saying yes into my ear. And I'm like, okay. I'm having encounters with something. And I believed in the supernatural.

I was very afraid of it. I didn't like horror movies or anything like that. That's why when people later in my life found it, I was a ghost hunter and into all this stuff, they were like, you? You're doing this? Do you have demons? It turns out. Yeah. So I started using tarot cards and just trying to, I didn't do anything formally, but I was like making little, I don't know, setups with my tarot cards.

to make contact. I'd light a candle. I'm like, okay, if you're here, you can talk to me, like thinking it would be a person. I didn't really think that I could call on demons or anything like that. At that time, I thought that was just like the exorcist or kind of Hollywood or something. I thought, no, you can talk to people that have passed on. I fully believed that. I didn't know any better. That little setup, I didn't make contact, but I continued going to psychics. I would go to church, but nothing. It wasn't really like living in the spirit or anything. So I didn't start getting into ghost hunting formally or professionally until I was about 21 years old. And at that time, I was getting my nails done. And this woman was showing my nail technician some evidence that she had captured from a ghost hunt that she went on. She had a digital recorder and she had been to like an event somewhere. And she captured a little girl saying, I don't know, I don't remember what it was. was, but she captured a voice recording of a spirit. And she was showing me and the technician and were like, wow, that is so cool. And she's like, do you want to come with me sometime? I'm like,

okay, sure, why not? And I had just graduated photography school at the time. And I was kind of just like figuring out what to do with my life. And I'm like, there's a business card. If you need photos or something. And ended up just planning a ghost hunt. And I went on my first one right on, where was at the USS Salem, right in Quincy, Massachusetts. That's where I was from. It was. It was a local legend. And through that, I had my first big encounter with a spirit. What was in the USS Salem? Is that like a retired ship?

It is. So it was a medical relief ship. It never saw a battle. But I think it was used in the Mediterranean at one point. I forget the exact history on it. But I heard, we had big evidence on that as well. But that was my first formal ghost hunt. And the rest is kind of history where we formed a group.

It was an all-female group. group at the time. And this was in 2010, so paranormal programming was really booming. Yes. Like you got Zach Bagan's, you had ghost hunters and all the other little ones. So like everything was really popping up and YouTube was kind of really starting to ramp up. It wasn't just like cat videos or like Uncle Charlie or whatever. So we started making our own show and we captured great evidence at the USS Salem that put us on the local map. And we started doing radio shows and events and then we just kind of it all spiraled from there we were on travel channel at one point in my you were on the travel channel i was yeah so your team was on the travel channel

like you had your own show or my team was on the travel channel i was on the bio channel for a show and then later on in my quote unquote paranormal career i hosted my own show co-hosted my own show on the travel channel really as well yeah wow i didn't know that yes yeah so i've been deep in it yeah Yeah. So like, this is interesting. And there's obviously plenty to talk about here. But let's rewind for a second. So you're talking about before that lady approached you in the hair salon, you were lightly touching things like tarot cards, right? Yeah. Like tarot cards, I saw no problem going to a psychic. It wasn't anything like I wasn't a witch. I think I would have called myself a Christian at that point or Catholic or something. I was just kind of, I don't know, lukewarm. I believed in God. I didn't know about Jesus and salvation or any of that. So I think I was your typical Massachusetts, Irish Catholic that you were run of the mill, that they wouldn't be atheist, but they're not necessarily saved or living on fire for the Lord.

Was there, so, all right, I'm trying to think, like, how this progressed for you. You have the whisper, the disembodied voices. Was there, like, an established, um, intrigue or something at that moment? Like was it like a curiosity that kind of blossomed in you then? Definitely. That first encounter, 14 years old, I'm like, am I special? Do I have this ability?

Gotcha. And I think that really carried me through this whole experience thinking, well, I have this ability. And in my thinking back then was God gave me this ability. Why would I be able to hear these voices if I, I wasn't meant to maybe hear these people. And I was very afraid. I was so afraid. I was very meek and shy. And I mean, I was into theater and stuff. But like off the stage, I was very just a shy person. And I would go on these ghost hunts. And within my team, I was kind of dubbed the brave heart. Everyone had kind of their character types. We had a leader, a skeptic. And I was the brave heart because I was afraid, but I was going to do it anyways and overcome my fear. And, Through that, it just kind of this empowerment came from it and feeling more and more special. And my abilities, quote unquote, I use a lot of air quotes when I'm talking about this stuff,

but my abilities were growing. I was able to know things, you know, that my psychic abilities, as I was calling them back then, was growing as well. And I was able to start seeing things, feeling things physically. and being able to conjuring call upon spirits as well and having them use my body and touch my body at one point as well. So you said earlier and you just brought up again the psychic readings that you used to do.

I think you said you used to go to Salem to do psychic readings. Yep, and we had one in Quincy, my local town. We had a tea room that people would go to all the time. I went there as well. So this is like a little bit of a turn away from your story. just to gain perspective on how you view it. When it comes to what you used to do with psychic readings, how do you think that logistically hindsight looking back played out for you?

Are you still having abilities to be psychic? Some people suggest that people who have a natural prophetic gift can get hijacked by the enemy and then starts going down the psychic route. How do you view all the stuff that you used to do versus now? That's pretty much exactly how I view it, is that I think the enemy is very smart, and they're always watching us. And I think they can see giftings and abilities in God's children, and he's going to do anything he can to get in early and to pervert our identity, to get us away from God. So if he sees somebody that might be naturally prophetic, I think it's going to twist that into being psychic and medium. and clairvoyant and all these things and he perverts the gifts from God.

And psychic abilities, they really glorify the psychic, the person giving the readings. And there's so many false prophecies and futures spoken over people, but the gift of prophecies is to give God glory. And it's never for you as the prophesier. It's to build the church. It's for other people. It's to minister to others. And it's never to bring yourself glory ever. It's always going to also align with the Word of God.

So what I was doing was never aligning with the Word of God, telling people that they're going to manifest whatever, attract these things into their lives, or even just having words of knowledge. Again, that's always going to align with the Word of God. And what I was doing was just parlor tricks. It's just it's not bringing anybody closer to the Lord. It's not bringing healing.

It was just further in the deception. So the, let me think how I want to say this. There is this, in my perspective, because I don't, I've never, I've never dabbled with this stuff. But it seems like there's this element of, with psychic, you know, there's this idea that, you know, you could walk up to a psychic's table and they'll do a reading for you. It's on demand. you activate something and you pull something from somewhere else information. And with prophecy and the prophetic, it's more at the very most,

it's pleading to God for understanding and waiting for a response. I imagine, because I wouldn't call myself a prophet either. I'm not a prophetess or anything, but I think we all. But it's more like on God's terms, Like he decides when the download comes, what it is. Yes. Instead of saying, all right, here we go.

And you've got five minutes because there's a line building up, you know? Right. Because I've seen that at conferences. That's not, it's not fast food. Like we can't just, with God, you can't just, like, demand something. And I think we can seek him earnestly in our hearts for a word. And he's not always going to give a word. And also, we can just go do the word.

If you want some prophecy, just go to the word. It's right there. I think, you know, I do have some prophetic tendencies as well. I wouldn't call myself like a prophetess or anything at this point in my life. But I definitely think the devil try to get in and really just twist the identity. And he's really big on that. He wants to get in and twist who you think you are and the natural giftings you have. And he wants to be able to use them for his own devious, fun, not fun things.

And that's what I've always tried to convey at times when it comes in a conversation. It's like, you know, we have a limited perspective. Like, I'm 40 years old. So I have 40 years experience on this earth. Satan has a lot more time under his belt. And so do all these other Elohim, little G gods, all these entities, these principalities. They've been around a long time. And even the dumbest one has at least learned to pick up patterns over time.

And I imagine if I had the opportunity to see 100 million babies be born and see them develop, I imagine I'd start noticing certain things in different ones that are like characteristics that I'm like, okay, there's like an 80% chance that because you do this, you're going to have this ability or whatever. And they start, I feel like they start identifying. and they try to basically hijack, intercede, or interfere, and kind of redirect into a different direction. And I think sometimes people would say, like, well, why? Like, why would they, you know, they don't need humans to do things like this, that, and the other? But I think that at the end of the day, the goal isn't they need you to do anything as much as they need you to not be going

the direction of the cross. Yeah. So there's this desire to build a wall between man and God and at all costs. Yeah. Well, that will happen. The Bible talks about Satan. The enemy's goal, steal, kill, destroy. Yeah.

That's their one desire is to have us into, if they can't kill us, steal our joy, steal our calling, steal our peace, destroy anything that we're building, destroy our life, destroy, you name it. Okay. if we're going to still follow God, then they're going to try to do all these things. So it's like they are watching us all the time. So if they're able to understand patterns and all these things, now you add in familiar spirits where they're watching not just all children, but your family.

Do you have the same tendencies as this person and your family? They're watching your bloodline. They're watching generations of people fall into alcoholism, fall into atheism or witchcraft. and they understand what's on your bloodline. What are you more inclined to go towards? I have a lot of alcoholism that runs in my family. So that's something that I struggled with at one point. But by the grace of God, he delivered me from that.

And they're so conniving and they know your heart. I mean, the Lord is the only one that knows your heart, but they can pick up on patterns like you said so they know how to abuse that and exploit that and pervert it and twist it so that you're just stuck in this, like, demonic muck. And, like, I just thank God for freedom that he's able to bring through all of that. Well, what you said about knowing their heart, knowing the heart, I know what you mean.

Like, the omnipotent nature of God is not applied to these entities. However, they do know your heart because you wear your heart on your sleeve. whether you think it or not. So there's, like, there's people like me who, there's no guessing. Like, everybody knows if I'm having a bad day. Everybody knows if we're on good mood. Everybody knows, uh, everything. Like I just, I'm the same way. I can't have a poker face. If I feel it, I feel it. So it's like they can because they can just, because you, you don't hold back, right? But even the people who are like, you know, very guarded and they don't want people in and stuff, when you're alone, you wear your heart on your sleeve.

You are who you are. As there's somewhere in the world, you feel comfortable to let your hair down and be who you are. And guess who's there observing and watching you? Watching and what are you Googling? You know, like, you can't, I'm like, oh, how to know our thoughts. They can watch what we're Googling. They're watching us all the time. They know the heart of man.

It's wicked. And so they know that our ways are wicked and we're going to be, you know, tendencies to sin. And so if they can tempt us, not just a little bit, but that's why we have free will. And the Holy Spirit comes in to help us. But when I didn't have the Holy Spirit, I'm giving in to everything. My goodness. Yeah. I mean, they watch so much that I just got this new phone case that covers my cameras.

That's a genius. I'm like, the demons can't watch me through the camera now. Yes. Whenever I travel, like I plug up like little peep holes. I'm rolling towels underneath the door. And I'm just like, no one's watching me, even a person. But I'm like, demons go now. You're the crazy thing is, you're going to sidetrack me, but here we go.

Yeah, we go. The crazy thing is, like, you know, we can do that with what I did with my phone or you can, you know, plug the people and stuff. From what I understand, they have technology now where they can actually watch us through Wi-Fi signals. It, like, sends out the wave. Yeah. You can tell, like, it bounces back so it knows what's in there. Yeah, I know. There's no privacy.

There's no privacy. I know. I don't have an Alexa. I don't have any of this stuff. But I'm like... You still live in a fishbow. But I got this thing. And I'm talking on the internet.

But I'm like, well, I'm going to do whatever I can. Yeah. I know. I don't like it. I don't like it. But I'm... You got to do what you can. You got to do what you can.

But they know. I know. But as much as the man knows, these entities, they do know us. And that's the thing. Like, when you come to understand that, there is a force around you. You've been born into a cosmic war. The war is over you.

And because the war is over you, attention is on you 24-7, good and bad. Yeah. You know, and you are the literal utter of that ship. You are the one that decides which direction that ship's going. And so it's like, yeah, they know us pretty darn well. In fact, they probably know us better than we do at times. Oh, my gosh. And like when you really think about it, the devil and all of his minions, they know the word of God the most.

They've been around since the beginning with the Lord. Like when he created them, they've been around longer than us. So he knows it inside and out. He uses it to tempt Jesus in the wilderness. He twists scripture. So it's like that's why you see Jesus as an example being able to bury that word in your heart because the devil's going to use scripture first and foremost to twist it because I thought I could. use crystals because they were in the Bible, even though I didn't read it for myself. I thought just because the Bible mentioned crystals that we could just use it. So it's understanding what God says and why he

says it in the context of him saying it. Not just because he mentions crystals. That means you can use them. Okay. Let's take a second talk about our sponsor today, which is Ghost Bed. We're just about in summer now. In fact, I think we're in the thick of it. It gets hotter from here. And if you're someone who stays up late, going down rabbit holes, and you already know that overheating at 2 a.m. doesn't help anything. Ghostbed builds cooling into every mattress from the ground up. Not just an upgrade, not something you pay extra for. It's just how they build beds. And when you factor in, their mattresses are priced up to 50% less than comparable brands. It's a pretty easy decision. Ghostbed is a family-owned company with over 20 years of experience.

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Tony. Upgrade your sleep with Ghostbed, makers of the coolest beds in the world. Some exclusions apply C-site for details. You know, a few years ago, I think Jack had just started working here. we had a guy in here who I didn't know this about him at the time, but he revealed it, I think, I don't know if it was during the recording or beforehand, but he was a witch. And, you know, the show's gone through different stages throughout the years. And when I first started the show to now, it's a completely different show. And even in the back in the day, I still would have been like, at least tell me before I bring you in.

kind of thing, you know? But he, I forget what he did, but he did something that irritated Jack because he did it to Jack. And I was just watching, I was like, oh, this is interesting. How do you feel about that, bro? But I remember he at one point was talking to me and he used scripture. And the way he said it, I was like, I don't really have a good answer for that. you know and that's exactly what you were talking about and and it's like it's important to to know it

have it written on your heart and when i say written on your heart um it's like for me the essence of scripture understanding not only they're not knowing just the words but what is it telling you you know what are you getting from it yeah the overarching like yeah like sometimes i i can't tell you Well, in this chapter, in this verse, in this book, it says this. I'm like, no, what, I understand what God's word says. He's not looking for perfection and being able to recite things. I mean, I do like to memorize scriptures. I have a couple memorized, like with Psalms or something, but not looking for this perfect performance of being able to notate everything.

But you'll be surprised how much you know when the time comes. Like, my husband and I will just be talking or just when you're praying over somebody, what the Holy Spirit is the helper. He will bring those things to remembrance as you're praying. It's amazing when you start like walking with the Lord, what that type of spiritual life will do. It's so that's the confidence building. That makes me feel like, I am special to you, Lord.

Like you do help me. You do care about me. The devil does not. He just wants to make you think you're being protected and you're walking and you're growing in these abilities and making contact with the other realm. or whatever it is you're doing, he wants to make you think you're special and you're okay, but it's all going to come crashing down. It all comes with the price. Yeah, I mean, imagine for you in your story, you did at times feel very special.

I mean, if you were, if you got the whispers when you were young and you start having that seat of, man, am I special, am I hearing things? And you start practicing with tarot cards and you start learning these abilities. And then you get into this investigative stuff. and then the TV comes. The attention. Yeah, you're like, I am. I am that. So cool.

I am she, you know? Right. Well, very much so. And when I started off, we were really into scientific equipment. So using EMF meters, which is an electromagnetic field reader, we would use digital recorders. So trying to, if people are unaware, when you're on a ghost hunt, we would use digital recorders or we would also use cassettes back in the day.

And you would hit record during a session. You would put it down. No one's touching it. No one's talking. You start asking questions to whoever you're trying to make contact with essentially conjuring. And you would leave spaces of, don't talk in between the questions. So you allow the spirits to answer. And when you play it back, sometimes you would capture what we would call electronic voice

phenomenons, EVPs. We were doing that. We were using what else were doing? doing thermal imaging, infrared, camera, ultraviolet. I think there's like so many different things we're using. We really started off very heavily. I was using all the equipment. And then I slowly started to add witchcraft, occult items.

And your team was okay with that? We were all witches at one point. Gotcha. Yeah. So I was learning things from my teammates. And I remember when I first started going on these investigations, I had like a crucifix with me. I think what was that?

The Warren's Occult Museum. So Lorraine Warren, they have the Annabelle doll in The Conjuring, that whole thing. I met her a few times and went to her museum where they have all these occult items and they have a priest with them. So if you touch anything, you have to let them know and they'll pray for you. I'm like, looking back, I'm like, why do you have these things? I should be destroying these things and not making money off them. But I had like a crucifix with me. So I was like, literally, I'm telling you, I was like the little scaredy cat.

I'm just like, oh my gosh, there's a satanic relic. there's all these things. That's great for TV though. Yeah. Right. You know, like I had like this little crucifix with me and I'm just holding it. Like I generally, it was my, like my great grandmother is from backwoods Ireland. I'm like, it's mine. God's going to protect me. But things would follow us home. So I was like, okay, let me, we started going to Salem. I'd pick up items and I thought, nothing wrong. I'm just getting some candles. The black one is for cleansing negative energy. This white one's for protection. This green one is for money or let's do the purple one to open up our psychic abilities and we would do different spells to open up the investigations as opposed to just focusing

on, we're just here, scientific equipment, whatever. We started utilizing these witchcraft items. I'm sorry. And then it just spiraled into wanting to learn more and develop my psychic abilities, learning about witchcraft, reading these things, and just becoming really obsessed with the occult as well. So going back to the scientific equipment, what was your experience? Because, I mean, I, you know, like I told you before we started recording, I've been around a long time, I've been around the block,

I've seen everything, you know, I've heard a lot. I don't want to say everything because every once in a while there's a curveball, I'm like, wow, I've never heard that. But... It's usually you're not going to throw me off guard, right? And one of the things that I've had experience with is these different electronic pieces of equipment. Okay. And I see people having varying different success rates with it, whether it's picking up EVPs or you said, was it thermal or infrared?

Both. Both. Both. Yeah. Have you guys, before you started introducing the witchcraft, were you having a high success with the electronic stuff? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And it would confirm what I was seeing or hearing or feeling. So I would be like, I would have an EMF detector or they also had a K2 meter on it. I wouldn't be able to tell you what that K, I don't know what a K2 meter is, but I was using it. I knew what it did, but I don't know what's the kind of just like kind of. lights up. It lights up. It'll make a noise. So wouldn't be moving and it would go off. And I'd say like, I just felt something

touched me. And it would go off. And I wouldn't be trying to, we would test it out because we would have our own camera. So like, all right, let's try to recreate that. And I would put my hand towards the antenna. I have captured Class A EVPs. We have a Class A. So in the paranormal world, there's different classes. So there's just like little muffles, scratches or something. You just get like a nod. or something that you didn't hear with your own ear, all the way up to something that's crystal clear. It's a conversation.

It's words and sounds. So I captured, I was up in, there was this Rolling Hills Asylum, upstate New York. This was a very demonic poor house. It was used in the 1800s. Saw a lot of chains in the basement type thing. And we did a voice recording up there

and captured. a nurse and patient struggle. So you hear this blood-curdling scream in between our questions. It's a blood-curdling scream with a nurse. You almost hear it like smack a patient. And it says, don't you ever do that. Like screaming. I don't want to yell it out loud. But a full-on conversation, like almost like a snippet in time. And you guys were the only ones in there? There was a whole, like we were filming for Travel Channel at that point. But you can hear us just carry on our conversation as if nothing happened. So it was it gotcha. You would hear a blood curling scream.

Like, what was that? So you didn't hear with your own ears. You heard it back on the recording. Correct. Gotcha. So I've captured so many different things, things saying my name. I've seen myself be captured on a thermal imaging camera where it wasn't being pointed at me. So a doppelganger.

So many different ways that these demons go. It's almost hilarious when you think about it. Like the show they put on just to keep you in this deception. and what, you know, the type of evidence that you can capture to kind of just confirm your beliefs and have you kind of going further and further into this world. It's a whole bubble, too. It's a whole world of paranormal as well. Yeah. All right. Well, we got to talk about this doppelganger. Because I have talked to some people who said that they've seen like the doppelganger of themselves. I don't know if I've ever talked to anybody who was on a paranormal investigation when they said that.

And you said you saw it through a thermal. So my teammate was taking images. I think we were in Gettysburg at a battlehouse somewhere. She thought I was right behind. No, she thought I was in there because there was like a crawl space in the basement. And she's like, oh, I got you on the thermal. And I was coming down the steps behind her. So my face was right there.

I don't have a lot of this evidence. Unfortunately, people would be like, how convenient. But like, no, I got there to so much. So I'm like, no. But I remember just seeing my face on that little screen. It's like the thermal gun. And just seeing my face. So you recognize your face?

I was like, that's me, but that's not me. Wow. It like took on the image of me. Yeah, these things are just, they're so so demonic. For lack of a better term, just they, they want to keep you in this just deception loop. Just keep you coming back for more. And it's like confirming these things are out there. Yeah.

I mean, something like that is confirming not just for you on an individual with your entire team. Like, that's a mass manipulation tactic right there. It is. It is. Because everybody sees it. They know what you look like. They know you weren't there. Exactly.

And there logistically is no way to get around. That's something paranormal happened. Right. Right. And that's the thing where a lot of this equipment was confirming what I was already seeing and vocally expressing. I'm like, I just saw a little boy in that doorway. And then the beep, the beepy thing. the machines would go off or something.

So it's like all this big show. You guys probably used, what's it called? Rem pods, I think. Yep. Yeah. Wow, I haven't heard that in a while. Told you. I actually own a rem pod somewhere around here.

Not here, but it's probably in storage. But, yeah, so you have that doppelganger experience at that location. Now, these locations that you guys were investigating, and I'm kind of like asking these questions, partly out of curiosity, partly because I also want the audience to have a perspective on things, right? Like, for instance, the Class A, I know what you meant, but I wanted people to just in case.

But when it comes to these locations that you're investigating and the history behind them, I'll use an example. You probably heard of Pennhurst in Spring City, Pennsylvania. Before we moved to Tennessee, I lived 15 minutes from there. Okay. And, you know, I did, back in the day, it was Paracan hosted there. I had a booth there.

Wow, we, like, just missed each other. I don't think I went to Penhurst, but I've been to Paracons, like, in Pennsylvania, in New York. Yeah, like, I did all the events and stuff. You look familiar. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I, I, I, I just, like I said, the show has changed over the years.

I used to, because I didn't really have a big Christian support system around me when I started the show. And so the ones who wanted to talk to me were people that were not the same theological convictions that I was. Supernatural. But I know God called me into the podcast. The Holy Spirit told me what I was going to do. So I just kind of walked this walk.

And I see hindsight looking back that it was all strategic. was in control. But Pennhurst has this dark history, right? And you know, you hear different legends and things like that. But it used to be from what I, if I can remember correct, it used to be a place that you would take your family member like a child that maybe could be as something as a little autistic to severely mentally handicapped. And back in the day, it was like, you just put those kind of people in a home and you kind of forget about them. And, um, and, and, Then there's the abuses that happen. There's the experimentation that happens and all that stuff, right?

So on the surface level, as a human being who sees that storyline and you don't have any kind of theological perspective, let alone convictions, you're like, oh, this is a charged area. This is an area that is, you know, the history here made it haunted. From your perspective, and I don't care what your perspective is, but from your your perspective back then to now has it changed and how do you view why these areas tend to have this kind of activity? Yeah, I feel like back then I thought same verbiage. I'm like, oh, there's a charge here. There's, I used to say, kind of a universal, a scar happened in the universe. This is like a big wound that happened here, a cosmic scar, I would call it. And there's just a lot of things

happening. And then actually within the ghost hunting community, I would think that because we're all going there that we wanted to have like are we used to kind of ponder on different panels and stuff like are we creating these hauntings ourselves because of we're seeking and I actually kind of think that as well a little bit like the more you're seeking you're going to find it and I think that's kind of true in the spiritual realm whether it's the lord or the enemy like if you're not seeking the lord obviously everything else outside of him is going to be demonic and the enemy's going to he sees that the curiosity curiosity alone is not going to make things happen

it's what you do with that and acting upon it and continuing to engage with these things that God calls you away from so I personally I have like a multitude of feelings on it like I on this side of heaven I don't know everything with that type of stuff but I know that like

all right people are going there so stuff's going to you go to the show people are going to dance and I think the the demons are dancing for people and I do think places can be hot spots in a sense for that. I wouldn't be able to explain it theologically, but I do think there's places that are more, for lack of a better term, haunted. I don't believe in hauntings anymore in that sense that people that have died and that were

living and then died can come back and be a ghost. But I think there can be supernatural activity in places in a place. especially when we're looking for it as well. I do believe I think there's, I don't know, like laylines can be a thing or just maybe territorial principalities and like you said, little G gods. We don't know. There's so much supernatural out there.

So I'm like, I don't know why some places are deeper. I'm like, what was happening on that land where people opening it up. So there's a lot of history that we don't, you don't even know what happened, what kind of pagan rituals were happening here. And chamanism, witchcraft, all these things. So you don't know what kind of portals or whatever were opened in the past and why things are happening. And the more you come into agreement, I feel like the bigger stronghold and principality starts to happen in that place as well.

That makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense. And I don't know if we're totally meant to know the why on this side of eternity. And I'm like, I'm just worshipping. Sometimes I feel like I have to have all these spiritual things, these supernatural, the creatures, all these things figured out. And the answers, I'm like, no, I don't. And that's been such a big relief where the Lord's like, I don't want you to know. Like, you don't have to.

You're never going to know all of it. And he's like, I just want you to focus on me now. And all of that, like, you can talk about where you come from and all that stuff, but you don't have to have an answer for it all. I'm like, thank you, Lord. He's just so good. He just kind of relieved that pressure from me of having an answer for, what do you think this is? What do you think this is?

I'm like, I don't know, but it's not from the Lord. and I'm just going to focus on him and worship him. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess if you can boil it down, like for me, the, I've actually several times in this recording, the history of the show and how it's changed, right? The way it's changed is because, or maybe the Y, too,

when you look at the pattern of scripture, you know, I came into this show as a Christian. You know, I'm a Christian. my my devotion to God has increased over the show's existence because when you look at what you're doing and you see things and you start seeing the reality of our existence, at some point you can't pretend to be just ignorant anymore and be like, oh, you know, maybe I don't know. It's like, no, you do know. And so at that point, like I've been accused of being a sellout my entire career. ever since I started, they're like, you're a sellout.

I'm like, I just started. For what? For Christ. Most people don't even know what that means. Like, they have no idea. But like, the idea, so I don't want to go down that route. So let's just see you here on this. So the idea of me keeping everything as usual because I don't want to rock the boat.

I don't want to say anything that scares people away, the audience that I've built and all this stuff, that would be selling out. Yes. Because I don't want to rock the boat. So I won't say what I believe to be true now, and I won't act on my convictions that God's giving me. That's selling out.

I agree. And as the show has kind of changed over the years, I've come to understandings that I didn't have before. and there is a deep, multi-layered operation when it comes to the supernatural. What did you say? It was called Cosmic Scars?

Yeah, cosmic scars. I was sitting here thinking, that sounds like she would have wrote a book and called it Cosmic Scars back in the day. 1,000 percent. I had so many aspirations back in my New Age occult days. That probably would have been one of them.

Yeah. But it's interesting just seeing the pattern. I don't even remember. where I was going with all that, so we're just going to move on. But like, it's interesting to see it's ADHD stuff. I get it. I get it. I'm the same. But it is interesting to see how everything kind of progresses over time. And looking back on your life, you see how things progress. But the reality is you did investigations. And through doing the work that you wouldn't do now, it did teach you there is a spiritual realm. So it's not like you're coming out here.

like, it's all fake. It's not real. It's like, no, it's absolutely real. It's just in scripture, that's where I was going with this scripture. When you look at the pattern of the scripture, it all points to Jesus. Scripture itself, the physical object of Bible, is not an all-encompassing history book. There are things in it or not in it that did happen, but the scriptures itself, the whole point is to point people to Jesus. And so, like, when it comes to our existence and understandings of everything that you've uncovered and I've uncovered, it's like, we're going to have questions that aren't going to be answered. And I'm satisfied with this idea that maybe it's because it's not worth being put into the book.

You know, it's like my life's purpose and point is to point towards Jesus personally for me. And God willing, people follow that lead. but like that's the whole point of life. And so if we have all these other questions and we're talking about different things, I don't know how that works, I wonder how it works. It's like, that's fine to wonder. But like maybe we're just never meant to have that answer on this side of eternity. Right.

And I love that he's graced us with letting go because I feel like before, you know, following the Lord and getting saved, I wanted to have all the answers. And I still do sometimes. Sure. I want to know why. And I think it's important to have a. space, especially in the Christian community, to be able to talk about supernatural experiences because I remember when I got saved and trying to talk to people in church or whatever,

people would be like, who's a what? I'm like, yeah, I saw all these things and you have almost this like the spiritual PTSD from everything you witness. And it's just like, who can I talk to about this? And no one else gets it. But these supernatural experiences are real. We've experienced these things, but the lens that you view them from is important. I think me being into what I was into my now husband when we first started dating, he was an atheist.

But because he witnessed me go through these things, I brought him on some cosons before. He didn't experience anything. But he knew he's like, well, she's not a liar. She's not crazy. I know she's not making these things up. So he's like, okay, it kind of softened his heart a little bit and opened up his mind to the idea of a spiritual realm possibly existing. So God used the craziness that I was into and kind of spoke to my husband back in the day and just kind of he was able to then lily pad and jump to the next rock to the next rock and eventually we both got saved. But the Lord can use so many different things to eventually lead it to him.

But like you said, my gosh, where was I going with this? I'm glad this is very more conversational, a lot more conversational because I'm like, I don't want to be so like. when I'm formal, then I lose my train of thought. It's the worst. Oh, my gosh. All the flights are coming in. I was on a program yesterday recording. And it was a late night here.

I got home. I didn't get to bed until midnight. My son woke me up at 3 a.m. from a bad dream and I was up since. And I had to do a recording on somebody else's show. And the question comes in. And I start talking. I'm like, I don't remember what the question was. Yeah, that's just me.

I'm like, where am I? I got my flight was delayed last night. And then I could hear a kid wake me up at like 5 o'clock in the morning. It's so funny, my daughter usually wakes me up like 5 a.m. every day. And then we go back to sleep. But I'm like, even when I'm away, I'm getting up at 5 a.m. So I'm just like brain does not work right now. So I'm not totally there.

Let me ask you another question here. Because, I mean, I don't want to, first of all, I know there's a whole part of your testimony of stories. We haven't even touched on yet. And we can get into that. But because you were just saying what you were saying, it made my mind wonder. So with what I do, so I don't have a background in the investigative, like a paranormal

investigation, like, you know, show me, you know, a sign kind of thing, you know. Now, I come from the cryptid world. Okay. Okay. So like I'm into the umbrella. Yeah. I love the woods. And so I would, you know, if I have the option to take, put something in my sights that is a

monster, maybe we would try that, you know. But the idea that my interests with the cryptids and what you used to do, coming into the church, I've experienced where you kind of hinted on the idea that the church people didn't know what to do with things. Do you feel like that is, because I do, but you can disagree with me? I feel like it's a bigger problem than it should be, that there are whole host of churches, not just Christians, but, excuse me, one second, if Jack didn't cut this out, he's fired. I can't hear that?

I'm just kidding, Jack, don't cut it out, it's fine. Oh, dear. But there's a whole host of churches, not just Christians on an individual level, that have a hard time even fathoming the idea of paranormal supernatural. Right. What has your experience been expressing what you used to be in to other people that are in the church? Has it been good mixed? Like, not good as in like, oh, you should do it more often, but like, you know, not like shunning you or shunning you?

Yeah, I think sometimes they don't know what to make of it. And some people that come from very spirit-filled household or lineage, they understand the spiritual warfare. But some people, when they just have never been around it, it's kind of just like, what? What did you just say? Like, that you've experienced. And it's not, I'm not like judging or hating on anyone. Like, I'm actually thankful that they haven't been around the stuff that I was in. But I think it's hard to kind of like, what do you do with, what do you do with all that?

And how do you minister to that? But I think there needs to be just more of awareness. I think personally it's just spiritual warfare in general with church. And I'm very thankful to be a part of a very spiritual church that understands that. But I think I've had people be kind of a little judgmental. And they wouldn't really say it out loud, but the lack of poker face would kind of say so. Like, oh. Oh, well.

That's nice. You can fill out a card here. But then I've had very sweet people that just, they just pray for me because, you know, prayer and Jesus, they point me in the right direction. And, you know, my dad, he gave his life to the Lord when he was 19 in the Navy in the middle of the Philippine, like the ocean, the Indian Ocean there. But he fell away for a little while. And he came back to the Lord when I was like 23 years old. And he saw me through all of that. and he never stopped praying.

He tried to speak the truth over me, but I was just like so manifesting all over him. I'm just like, no, and the Bible's fake, all these things. But just keep praying. And, yeah, I think that was the point I was trying to make. I'm sorry, I keep knocking your table here. Okay, I don't know if it affects audio. No, that's fine.

Yeah, I think it's just a mixed bag. Some people have been around it. They understand spiritual warfare. And I love my church. It's so diverse. We have people from every country. We have a lot of people from Africa, and so they do understand the spiritual warfare because they have a lot of witchcraft. The differences in the cultures, though.

In the culture, yeah. We have, it's the witchcraft here is just fluffy and it's cute and it's made to be manifesting your best life. You know, the universe, the law of attraction, that's the type of witchcraft people love or think is okay. And we have crystals and healing and everything is just like chill and like whatever, man. They don't understand when you step outside of the U.S., like witchcraft is deep and dark. It's blood magic. It's dark rituals. And people are getting hunted and stolen and all these.

It's bad. So when people come from that, they understand the gravity and the reality that witchcraft is not this nice, pretty little package that we've made it out to be. So, like, in the book of Daniel, chapter 10, it talks about the spirit. Spirit of Prince of Persia, the Spirit of Prince of Greece. And these are entities that are, from what I understand, in charge over these areas. So like Persia being modern day Iran, and I think Iraq. I think Iraq and Iran at one time we're together and called Persia. But like, so when you think of principalities that rule and reign over geographical locations, you would, I would expect to see the manifestations being different in certain areas.

And I don't know what the principality for America is or this region. But like it's clearly an underlying, deceptive, quiet, secretive, manipulative, not in your face type of principality. Covert. Yeah, covert's a great word. You know, because you get people that smile and they look like, I guess, and I've had a pastor of the past talk to me about like, like, the South, and this is not, I'm not hating on anybody from the South, but like I think, oh, she is,

don't worry about it. It's fine. But I think church is a culture. Like everyone goes to church on a Sunday, but not everyone is living, you know, according to the Word of God. Like, it's just they're culturally Christian or people like we were talking about culturally conservative, but they're not actually living that out. And I think appearance is everything in America. You know, we're trying to like perform, performance and image, especially look at social media and, everything that we do with ourselves. I mean, there's something wrong with makeup or whatever, but I think there's a line that America takes it to. And we just have to, we're keeping up with each other and who we think we're supposed to be. And I feel like it's image, image, image. And

through that, all of the sin is so secret and nasty, it's in the dark. And look at all the exposure that's happening right now, the things that have been happening in the darkness all this time under our eyes and it's God's always going to expose it. That's a great point because what's being exposed right now with like the Epstein files shows the severity and that severity does match what manifests in other countries. But here that severity lies under the surface. It just kind of it lies in the darkness. It's fully operating.

But here it's important for whatever reason to keep the people blind. under a facade. It's just it's performative. Keep them paying. And it's so deep and dark. It's just we're really good at gas lighting too.

This country just like, everything's fine. Keep buying things. Keep going into, keep ingesting in entertainment. It's like we've been lulled to sleep as a country and comfortable. It's because we're so comfortable

when you really think about it. Where other countries, they have to, they have to overcome so much more just for basic, needs and necessities. And so like they're almost the goodness of God is like they're grasping onto the hem more often because they're really leaning on him in a sense where they have to. He's what they have and we're so comfortable here. I'm like, I'm guilty of it myself. I'm like,

I get distracted, but I'm like, if I wasn't fighting for my life in certain places, I'm like, maybe I wouldn't, maybe I'd be more on fire or maybe I'd be doing more in the spirit or something. But there's just so much warfare that's happening and it's under our very eyes. Yeah. And these other countries on the flip side of that, from what I understand, now I'm not well-traveled. I have been out of the country one time and it's called Niagara Falls. Okay. I just went on across the border and came right back.

I've been to England and Ireland and Canada. That's it. Yeah. From what I understand is that people who are, say, Christians in other countries, when they're praying, they're actually expecting something to come from that. Like, they're actually expecting God to show up in a powerful way because they literally see demonic forces manifesting. They see this darkness, this supernatural reality that they're living in.

And so their perspective going into their faith is just very different. It's like, and that's the challenge that I feel like we have in this country where it's, how do I convey to other Christians? Forget about people who aren't Christians. How do I convey to people who are Christians how tangible the supernatural realm is? Right. Because as soon as I go there,

as soon as I actually start conveying this truth that I've built up over nearly, I don't know, where we're at probably 900 episodes, like a long time. I've been doing this show for almost a decade. So these understandings that I've built up for such a long time. As soon as I start going down that weird route, air quotes for if you're listening,

weird route for people within the church, it's a give or take as to how it's going to be received. And it's like, at the same time, I need you to understand every day you wake up and there is a principality, there's an entity, there's an enemy that you can't see that literally wants to kill you. Oh yeah. It hates you. It's prowling around. And it's not an idea. It's not something that you read about in the Bible. And it's like, oh, well, hopefully that never happens to me. It's happening to you. Yes. And there's no gauge. And it's like when I, and I told you earlier how like I'm the kind of person I wear my heart of my sleeve. So like when I'm when I'm talking to people, I just say stuff. I just, I just do. And I'm not

trying to do anything other than just this is what I am and this is who I am. And when it comes to this stuff, I know I see it on their faces. It's like some people I do. I lose them. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm like, oh, what I just gave you is like the light stuff. Oh, you don't know. Wait until I talking about entities recruiting people to work for them. That is going to blow your lid. Oh my gosh. I know. And I'm happy that there's spaces that we can talk about this stuff and not look like loonies, but also like bring it back. Yeah. Be grounded because I used to talk about all this stuff all the time, but like, it left me so hopeless to not feel, I'm like, I remember, so right before I got saved, it was during the lockdowns, I was very much into QAnon. And, um, what is it,

out of shadows? What was it, Fall Cabal, like kind of learning about all the Epstein and the rituals and that the elites are totally into spiritual stuff, not the good stuff. And I was just like, whoa, I started to feel very hopeless because the whole idea of this exposure and I was very much into also like, I don't know if I read David Wilcock like cosmic disclosure like all like the aliens. I was getting into some some of that stuff as well like thinking I was a Pleiadian star seed and oh I was. That's what Angela said she was doing too. Yeah. I know. That's why we have such similar stories. It's so funny. And devil try, but he's not going to win. But I was into all these like alien things. And I just. felt like the weight of the trying to save myself in the world and trying to meditate and vibrate our world into a new dimension, like that was such a burden on me. And I was getting panic attacks and along with all the other things that I'm sure we'll get into. But the idea that like I had to save myself and save the world was too much to bear. And with all this exposure, like you can talk

about all this stuff all you want, but have the hope of Christ, you know, have the hope of the God. And and like the foundation of looking at it through the word of God. That has what has set me free. I'm like, oh, wow, I don't, it's not up to me anymore. I do my part. I'm in God's army now. I put on the armor of God. I fight with the sword of the spirit.

I'm empowered to do the work that he has set out before me and to, you know, do whatever he's calling me to do to walk that out in obedience. But it's not up to me to save the world. Hallelujah. My goodness, you don't want me saving the world. I'm like, no, no, no. it's yeah you don't want me in that situation because not a lot of people are going to make the cut we're going to start something and then forget we started it and then go back to another project

you imagine somebody from philadelphia uh let's just say northeast somebody from the northeast and that that like rugged unforgiving attitude that people could have from the northeast that that's that that northeast vibe you know yes imagine if somebody like that is the one deciding if you if you you get to go to heaven or not. Oh my gosh. Oh, you're fine. You looked to me sideways 30 years ago, still thinking about it. Yeah.

Right? And then like, you know, somebody like, eh, all right, you're fine. Just keep going. Yeah, just keep going. Yeah, yeah, right. I know your mom, you know? You were good to me that one time. It's fine.

Yeah. Exactly. My Boston accent, so I don't really have a Boston accent anymore because, like, got trained out of me, voiceover work, theater or whatever. But I was sick recently and it totally came back because, like, it was just easier to talk that way. I couldn't like, I was all stuffed up, so I was like talking like this because it was just easier to like talk.

It was so. Now I got to break some bad habits. Now I got to break it out again. But sometimes I'm like, oh, I miss having that accent. It was fun. Tangent. That's fun. Yeah.

So let's take it back here in time to where I think I pulled us away from this, which you were talking about introducing witchcraft into the, we were talking about that. into your investigations. Before you go any further, though, on that, you said we were all witches. Were you guys, or ladies, were you ladies admittedly witches? And were you all coming together as team members already existing as witches? So not coming together already as witches. One of my teammates, she was, has a history of that.

my other teammate, I don't think she would never call herself a witch. I think she was the skeptic of the group. I was kind of, like I said, your run of the mill, just I believed in God, had the crucifix, but like I didn't, I would never, I would call people Jesus freaks or I wouldn't read the Bible. So I learned about witchcraft through being in this world and being around people that were in that. And through that, we started, incorporating more things. And actually at that, at one point, I would have called myself a Christian witch. I laugh about that now. I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, I thought I could have both. I didn't know because I wasn't reading the word. I didn't understand that I couldn't mix the two things. They don't compute. They do not go together. So at one point, I was calling myself a Christian witch. I had met Lorraine Warren a few times and we're speaking with her and we were just talked, I forget we were talking to her and we were like asking like, oh, like, do we have your blessing to carry on your legacy or something like that? And the priest that was with her was like,

are you guys witches? We were like, yeah. And he looked at her like, they're witches. I'm like, oh, and like I felt so like offended. I'm like, they don't understand. I'm like, meanwhile, the Warrens had claimed to be Catholic. and doing demonology, but they were totally promoting psychic mediumship and all this stuff. I'm like, you're doing the same thing. You're doing the same thing. I look back now. But yeah, so I would have called myself a Christian witch at one point. And then I totally dropped the Christian at another point in time was just like so anti what I thought was manmade religion in the box that was trying to keep me in and living out my divine feminine energy with all the

witchcraft and new age. It morphed through like so many years, like the scientific, the just strictly paranormal than the witchcraft came in and the trying to mix both of them. And then I was like, okay, I'm going to get away from a little bit of paranormal. Just focus on new age and occult and manifesting. And it like morphed into just so many different forms of this occult nonsense. And I thought it was all different but connected. And looking back, it's all just the same lie. Yeah. Do you think that there was, so that one lady that came into the group that was a witch, do you think she had a direct influence on everybody else? Or did you all just kind of mold into this image of witches more organically part from her? It was pretty organic, I think, because it's so long.

So she wasn't like evangelizing her witchies? No, she was the leader. She was my best friend at one point for a long time and very influenced, you know, by her and my own choices. I'm not saying. I wasn't compelled to do anything, but you just- Were they chaining you to the floor? Yes, how did you know? No, it was all my own curiosity

from that first voice I heard and giving into that curiosity and learning more because there was no guard. I had no idea. I'd pick up books in Salem. I'd learn about psychic. I mean, Amazon really wasn't a thing like it was, like it is today back then.

So it wasn't like ordering supplies. online. Like I'd go, I wanted to get all my supplies in Salem because I was like, oh, it's the witch city. They're extra charged up. Yeah. I'm like in the pieces they're choosing me. So I just, I wanted to learn more. And I, we were filming for different, you know, we'd get pilot episodes every now and then like we'd be picked up by a network or we'd be picked up by producers. We'd film pilots for sizzle reels or to pitch to networks multiple times throughout the year. So some people would want us to push the witchcraft a little bit more than others, but that then kind of, it married into my real life as well. I'm like, oh, I love this stuff. Like, it wasn't, I was never like,

pushed to do something that I didn't want to do, if that makes sense. Like, it wasn't like, here, be a witch now. I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess I have to do this. I'm like, no, I wanted it. I was interested in it, and I went adverse into it researching and everything. So the fact that you went from curiosity, tarot cards, investigating witchcraft, new age, right? So there's this like escalation in your own personal life through it. I don't think it was how it I say it. So I think some people could easily, you know, be in new age and then the escalation for them would be going into investigations on things. Right.

Darker. Right. Right. For you, it was kind of that. direction, do you feel like when you started going to more new age away from paranormal investigation, do you feel like looking back that that was an escalation in the wrong direction? Or do you think that that in a weird way kind of brought you to where you're at now? Well, it definitely ultimately brought me where I'm at now. I think, yes, and. I feel like it was both. It was definitely an

escalation, it was also an escape because while I was going on these investigations, my actual life was just in shambles. I started, these things would follow me home. So it's not like, let's just go on an investigation and go home and everything is fine. You're opening doors. I just hear the big labos come ahead. Like, you're in a world of pain. Like, you don't know where you're going to. You're entering into a world of pain right now. And you don't know the doors you're going to open. And what you're coming into agreement with. that you're allowing into your life. I was allowing so much fear and depression and anxiety and suicidal thoughts.

Like my physical health was failing. I was seeing things and feeling things at home. And it wasn't, I wasn't schizophrenic or anything. It wasn't like preventing me from living or anything. But like I would have supernatural experiences now at home because I was inviting it in my life. I was at- Did you recognize that at that time, though? Did you recognize that you were having these experiences because of investigations?

Yes. Yes. So I thought I had to do more rich. I thought I had to protect myself more. Interesting. So that's the thing. Because of the escalation in the actual paranormal investigations, I started turning to witchcraft for protection, for healing, for cleansing, for control.

You know, at one point I was doing love spells. I was carving people like guys initials into a candle and lighting spells. For you? For me, for myself. Like, yeah, I was, I'm telling you, I was into this. Is that how you met your husband? No, no. Thank God.

That was a legit question. I know it's not a sarcastic, but that's a legit question. No, praise God. And I only did it a handful of times. I'm like, maybe this is weird, but no. So I started just, my physical health was failing. I was just struggling with autoimmune disease. And I'm just like, I started doing more witchcraft to kind of help do healing with that.

That wasn't working. And just the increased activity at home, I'm like, this is just getting a lot. So I kind of pulled away a little bit and got more into new age. Okay, crystals will help me. doing sage if people aren't familiar with that. And literally the herb sage, just in a dried bundle. And I think it comes from Native American shamanism where they would smoke it up, you know, light it up.

And the smoke is supposed to clear your energy of bad spirits or something. So I would do that to try to cleanse our house. I would do it to my husband, everything. And nothing worked. I mean, it would work for a quote unquote, work for a little bit. Things would subside, but it just kept me on that hamster wheel of trying to find the fix, trying to fix something, trying to fix it, and nope, I turn to alcohol. Maybe I'll just drink it away. Maybe I'll just sleep around. Maybe I'll just do drugs and just do whatever to not be

in this pain anymore. At one point, I did want to commit suicide. And praise God, he didn't let that happen. And I'm just like, why did I think I could escape? You know, I think about all these investigations and telling these spirits, these entities, what I now know are demons, telling them, come into my body, use my body to talk, touch me, use my energy, do whatever you have to do to manifest yourself. So literally giving them legal right over my body, over my mind, over everything. And then what happened was my life was falling apart. You know, parents were getting divorced. Not that I think my investigation was causing that, but. I was going through turmoil. I was in like really toxic relationships. And like I said, physical health was terrible. And I'm just like,

I just felt so worthless. And my identity was awful as well. So that's why I turned to what I thought was the good witchcraft, the light, light magic, all these things, which was looking like the manifestation and law of attraction,

all of that stuff. So this pain that you were living in, psychological, spiritual, physical. Was that going on while you were doing the TV stuff? Yeah. Yeah. Did you have, with your friends as you were investigating, did you have a relationship with them where you were able to share that kind of stuff with them?

Yes and no. Like I know at one point, like I had to, like real talk. I had to go to like a, when I wanted to harm myself, they didn't want to like put me in hospital. So they had me like a day program for a few weeks. And I had like, so that meant I wouldn't be able to film. So I told them like, hey, this is what, what I'm feeling right now. I'm struggling and I have to go take care of this. But at that program, I learned about yoga and meditation and that kind of like, I was like, wow, I'm feeling so good with this. So I'm going to do more yoga. And I got really much into kind of diving into Buddhism or just kind of Eastern mysticism,

all that stuff. But they were aware, but we thought we could do witchcraft and make that go away and just party and drink and everything the world tells you will fix it. But none of that worked. I thought I had to find myself. It seems like almost like every chapter of your life was another open door for a redirection. It just feels like every chapter you found yourself in, there was. a new focus and effort to redirect you into a certain path. You know, like, you go to, you're seeking help and that's where you find yoga and meditation

and Buddhismism. Yeah. And where it's funny, that year, that same year, so that was 2012, I actually had answered an altar call. So during when my parents got separated, my dad was going to school for theology and, you know, he was really getting into his faith. And I'm like, well, it was a local college. And I was like, well, I'll go to chapel with my dad. I'll be able to see him and hang out with him.

And I was like, 23 at that time. So I answered an altar call one day because I'm like, I felt like it made sense to me. And I wanted to know who Jesus was. But I didn't understand sin and repenting and turning away from your life and putting that stuff down. I didn't, I'd never read the Bible. So I was like, okay, well, I'm just going to. get deeper into witchcraft. So after answering that call, that was March of 2012, July that year, that's when I was in that program and wanting to hurt myself and not wanting to even be alive anymore because I didn't value my life. And I'm like, oh, wow, the enemy really didn't want me to go after the Lord. He got me even. That's when, like, more, I was getting deeper and there's the paranormal during that year after answering that altar call. And from the time I answered that to the time I finally got like saved, saved. That was eight years later.

So it was kind of, and I had, during, in between those times, I had gone to church a couple times, like trying it out because I just so desperate for healing. You know, at that point, I was drinking my life away. I was sleeping around with guys. I was just like sex drugs and rock and roll, man. I had a summer of yes one year where I'm like, oh boy. Give me a pill. I'll take it.

Because, like, I didn't really drink in high school. I was kind of really on the meeker side where I was in drama club and choir and all that stuff. But like I didn't really drink until like I had my rebellion in my 20s. I did too. So I made up for a last time during the summer of yes where I just like did I just went out all the time. Like I fell asleep on the beach one time. Like I was doing party drugs and I'm just like just got it all out of my system apparently. And I just I also didn't value my life anymore.

I was like, I am depressed. I'm just thinking back at that time. I'm like, whoa, I just kind of felt what she felt for a second. My past, past Christina, just feeling so sad, just going to bed every night, feeling so broken. I'm like, will I ever be in love? Will I ever feel good about myself? Will I ever just be free? Like, I felt so heavy every single day.

And nothing was working. The alcohol wasn't working. The witchcraft wasn't working. wasn't working, sleeping around with guys wasn't working. I thought, like, well, maybe they'll love me. No, no love came from that. I was used and abused. That's how it was just chopped up and spit out. And I just didn't value it anymore. I just was like, okay, I'm just going to give up now and just do whatever. And my health was also really bad. Couldn't hold down a job because of it. I was getting flare ups. And I'm just like going nowhere in life. But still doing the paranormal. And it's

just didn't really click until like years later. I'm like, oh, God was the missing piece that whole time. So like because of that whole like summer of yes, doing whatever I wanted, like the darkness, all that. And that's when I got into the new age was I went vegetarian and then vegan. I'm like, oh, I feel really good. I'm losing weight. I'm getting healthier. My body's getting better. But the people that I was listening to, they were very much into the universe and that kind of mysticism and energy healing and all that stuff. So then I kind of dove deeper, deeper into that as well. And also in the midst of all that, I had been pursuing and acting and singing career.

And I thought mindset could make that happen and kind of getting into the law of attraction and manifesting my best life. I was just going to say that. Yeah. Yeah. So it's all one, it's all connected. It's all like this one big, like cosmic spider. I love that word cosmic apparently, but it's just a good word. But it's all connected in levels of deception, but it all just, it made sense for me at that

time the way they were being kind of like implemented in my life, the way I was the journey I was on. And I look back. I'm like, oh, because of the dark, this pain led me to this, led me to this, let me to this, but God use it all in the end. Yeah, it's not, it's not easy to do it in the moment. But if we could understand the concept, at least, that. But our lives, you know, sometimes really bad things happen and just seems really out of the blue.

But if you look at your life and you're honest with yourself, a lot of stuff is connected. And like you said about the spider web, it's like there is a lot of connecting events. And if you can start, I think it's probably one of the biggest and hardest things for people to do is to be honest with themselves. because when you're in the middle of that storm, you don't want to believe that you're the reason why you're in the storm. You know? I'm the problem. Hi.

It's me. That's hard to admit, you know? Yeah. You know, you're going through all these problems. Your investigative team, did any of them ever, you know, confide to you that they too were struggling with the same thing? No. No.

Do you think they were, and they weren't telling you, or do you think that you were the only one? I wouldn't be able to say that. we were very close, but to a certain level, I guess. Yeah, that's all I would be able to really say on that. I wouldn't be able to say what they were experiencing. Are you still friends with them? No, before I found the Lord. No.

It fell out before then? Yes. Oh, gotcha. Yeah. What happened there? Can you talk about that or no? No, we're good. Okay, I got you.

So you're not a notebook. I guess not. No. No, I think it was time to move on. Yeah. Okay. I was growing and in a different path of my life. And I thank the Lord.

Yeah. Yeah. Everything kind of happens in its own way. Yes. Yes. But. And I pray for everyone that I was ever in contact with. And I just, I'm like, they're still on my heart that the Lord would work in their life.

And I'm like, that would be an amazing miracle to witness. So the TV portion of this. How long did that last for you? Because I know you said, because I'm not, I've never been a TV personality or anything. I've done documentaries, but like it's very controlled, right? Yeah. So I know TV is very much like, I don't know if we're going to have a season two, you know? Yeah.

And you mentioned about different channels. Like, what was the depth of this part of your story? Yeah. So I was, I did one, an episode of a show with Travel Channel. It's funny. I haven't mentioned the names of the shows on other, like, podcasts just because I'm like, I never want people to go looking for them, and I don't want to lead them to it, but I'm like, do I talk about it this time? But I did work with Zach Bagan's on a show, on one of the shows.

Maybe people would know what it is, but it was a paranormal competition show on Travel Channel. And so we did one episode with him. And then I was on a couple episodes of a bio channel show. And then I co-hosted my own show for one season. It was 12 episodes with Travel Channel. That was out. That was 2019. But we did one season, and I think at the time, they didn't renew us for the second season.

I was so heartbroken, but I'm like, thank you, Lord. Because like literally the next year I was saved. Yeah, that would have been even harder. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, long story short, like it was during the lockdowns that I was able to finally hear the Lord. And I can slow down for you. Yep.

Yep. The Lord spoke to me through that. But I don't think, I don't know. I'm not going to say I don't think I would have. I don't know how the Lord would have done it. Had it been, it would have been interesting if he did it a different way. Imagine like during the show, like finding Christ. And I'm like, I got to go, man.

So, yeah. They're like, Christina, today we're doing a live show perfect. I'm going to declare Jesus name right on camera. That's right. That's right. We're going to deliver it. And there's nothing you can do about it because we're live. You know, COVID was a period for a lot of people.

And countries. I ran during COVID, because I ran lockdown during COVID. And during COVID, there was an absolute burst of data downloads out of Iran during the lockdowns. And when that data was investigated, a large majority of that data was Bibles and sermons. So when these people were locked down and the whole way, world slows down and they have nobody to distract them. Yep. All of a sudden, you hear the whispers.

That's why he calls us to solitude, to quiet time with him. Because I'm like, I find he still, obviously he speaks through all the noise and everything. But when you just shut off the noise of the world and you go and just try to hear him, he will speak. And whether it's through his word or just nudges, that's still small voice. that's how he did it with me. Like the world shut down. And I think I had just finished cosmetology school.

The second half of it was online because of the lockdown. So did as much as I could via Zoom. And I remember the Lord was just like I felt called to watch an Easter service. You know, because I was getting into the whole like the Q&on and all these things, the weight of all of that having to go from 4D or like 3D to 40 or 5D, like the dimensions are going to change in the earth. and all these things. I'm like, this is a lot. I was getting panic attacks. And because of my work, I haven't talked about it yet, but like through the travel channel show that I co-hosted, I had some

very, very dark demonic experiences with that. And I was having PTSD from that and just having these things travel and follow me. So at that point, right before I got saved, I was getting demonically tormented every day, like seeing things and getting pushed and hearing music. It was wild and nothing was working anymore. The hypnosis, the chakra cleansing, the, I don't know, writing down my affirmations, like, nothing. It was not working. And I'm like, I did not manifest this lockdown. I know that.

So like, I don't know where this is coming from. But I felt called to watch an Easter service from a church that I had tried out before. And I'm like, okay. Cool. My husband's like, no, I'm going to sleep. I'm like, okay, it's fine. But I watched the Easter service. I'm like, oh, I remember these little worship songs.

So another side note, I remember at one point as a witch when I'm living with my dad, he would listen to worship music with my stepmom. And I'd be like, oh, my gosh, like every demon within me was just like cringing so hard. I hated it. And now I lead worship. Look at what the Lord is done, right? But so I watched the Easter service. I'm like, okay.

And with everything that I started watching with like, not. I guess the world will call it conspiracy theories, but like, just learning about kind of the rulers of this world, the elites and just the power, like earthly powers, like all the deception and stuff like that. The people that I was listening to started talking about Jesus a lot. I'm like, all right, who is this Jesus guy? Like, okay, you got to learn about him and started talking to my dad. Me and my husband were like talking to my dad and my stepmom. We're just asking questions. I'm like, all right, who's Jesus? Why Jesus? Why only Jesus? Why can't I do my incense and my little spells, like my crystals, can I? Doesn't the Bible talk about that? I thought

I could have crystals for protection. God made them and they so, like just truth and love. Here's the truth. Here's what the Bible says. Here's a Bible, a study Bible. Read it. Start in the book of John. We're like, okay. So we just started reading through it. I'm like, oh, I remember we'd get like one verse in. Okay. In the beginning was the word and the word was with God. What does that mean? All right, go to the study note. go to the note. Like every, like we could only get a verse in that we'd go to the, all the study notes, but that's how you do it. That's how you learn.

And then I don't remember the exact date or how it happened, but just the conviction and weight of all my sin, everything I had been doing just fell on me all at once. And it was just like, the veil finally was lifted off of my eyes. And I was just like, what I've been doing, what I've been doing. Jesus is real. Oh my, like literally, oh my God. he died for me. Jesus does saves. It's not just this cringe Christian phrase that people say. Like, Jesus saves. And I just started weeping for like two weeks, throwing out everything,

throwing out all the crystal wands, like thousands of dollars worth of equipment, my EMF detector, my parent, like anything that had to do with witchcraft or the new age, like, I just threw it out. And I would have, I was part of like different spiritual gurus, their online courses, like thousands of dollars. for all this nonsense. And I remember canceling my memberships and when they're like, why are you leaving us? And in the comments section, I'm like, Jesus is Lord. Jesus is real. Repent and believe.

And I'm like, copying, pasting all these scriptures. Jesus suckers. And I'm like, bye, peace. But peace me with you. But yeah, so I'm just like, I got rid of it all. And I'm like, he totally lifted the veil off my eyes. And I'm like, God is so good. And I'm seeing other people I know from the new age as well.

wake up and I'm like, God, God can do anything if he, I keep telling my dad, I'm like, when he's, you know, he wants to believe for certain people to be saved. I'm like, if dad, I'm like, if he can save me out of that nonsense that I was believing, then he can do anything. So, and I would leave that for hope anybody listening that is either in it or has a family member that I know is hard to watch people that are stuck in this stuff, but keep praying, keep praying because I had a whole army of people praying for me without even knowing it. My dad and his friends and all that stuff and he will hear the prayers of the righteous, righteous, and it worked and God save me. So, like, even what you just said about keep praying, keep praying, people have to understand.

When I was talking about earlier, you know, the church not understanding that's the tangible nature of the supernatural, when you say keep praying, keep praying, keep praying, people who maybe not grasp it would say, like, it's just words. Like, it's just you making yourself feel good because you, you. you're saying words and whatever. But there's a real tangible nature. Like when prayer is designed, it's not something that we came up with.

It's designed by God. And when you do it, it activates heaven. Like, that's why, like you said, keep praying, keep praying, keep praying, because without the prayers, there's the lack of activation. I'm not saying God can't. God will do it every once.

But he literally designed prayer and spiritual warfare for our participation. We are part of that equation. Yes. And so to just kind of, I guess for me to back up what you're saying, it's like prayer is so profoundly deep. If we could understand that, we wouldn't take it lightly. We'd do it way more often and we wouldn't just do it.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, I pray. I bless my food. It's like, eh. Okay, good start. Good start. Let's not just try activating. heaven when we're about to eat.

Right. Lord, please save my bowels from what I'm about to eat. Help me. I'm going to do it anyways. But yeah, so COVID, you're going through this situation that probably had a lot to do with this spiritual awakening that you started having where, you know, you're looking at all these different conspiracies and all this stuff. and you're basically getting slammed dunked on reality of like what's really going on.

Yes. And there's a lot of people that were in those shoes with you. I, you know, I started this show in January 2017. And for, you know, three years, I had three years under my belt where, you know, I'm looking at things, but I'm also talking a lot of people. And so when the whole, um, uh, was it going to QAnon and the documentary. It was like 10 videos long.

Like Fallqabal. Yeah, Fallah. Like it didn't like, for me, it wasn't just like, oh my gosh. But there's a lot of people like that, right? Right. And it's like there was this awakening to evil is real. And there are actually real evil people. And there's a lot of people who stopped there.

and they didn't take it to the next level, which is, these are evil people who have their strings being pulled by evil entities. There are demonic forces behind these people that are operating and keeping them moving in a certain direction. They are, in a sense, victims to the spiritual attacks as well. I'm not excusing them for what they've done. Blackmail and there's a lot of stuff. I'm like, there's, you have to have some, I'm not going to know, you know what I mean?

what I'm going to say. There has to be some grace where, like, we don't know the situation that these people have been put in. What's crazy is, I'm going to say something that might make me sound like, I don't know, cold-hearted. I don't know how. Honestly, when I say things sometimes, I don't know how people are going to receive it. And I'm shocked that they're upset with it. I'm like, oh, that upset you? I didn't know. But like, there are, so just in general, the elites, these evil elites, right? not even you just say me because i don't i don't want to put words in your mouth i got no i like the human side of me there's no sympathy for them like i don't like i don't have any compassion towards you yet i'm instructed to have compassion yet they were created by god and underneath my convictions they still have access to the same saving grace that was offered to me i don't want to

to hear that though. I know. The me, you know, I don't want to hear that. Yeah, flesh says no. I want to like just speak badly about them and not pray for them. Which I will. Right. You know, like, no, and God loves justice and holding people accountable for very bad things. Yeah. But like, he still wants us to not only to like pray for them. Yeah. Pray for them and actually bless them. Because I'm like, whoa, my savior actually died for them too. And that is. such a hard thing to do. And like, because like, I view that, like, you are an enemy to humanity to everything that is good and pure and holy.

But I still hope that God does something in your life, that, like, he still saves you. Because, like, that would be a miracle. But it's hard to stomach. Yeah. I will not, I will not go into the files. I cannot. I saw things by accident and, like, I had a headache. I'm not even joking.

the Lord told me not to look, don't to keep looking at this post, but I kept looking because I didn't realize what I was getting into. And I saw things and I'm like, I should not have gone there. And I had like a headache for like a week from it. Like just the trauma of seeing that.

And it sounds so weak, but like we're not meant to see this stuff. Right. Being exposed to the very terrible spiritual things that are happening that these elites believe in. Like, all right, my human side displace. side despises them, but like, how amazing would it be to see them repent and believe in the gospel

and then the Lord to be able to use them to save, like, that'll be amazing. And for justice to be served on earth, that's what I'm praying for as well. But we're not meant to handle all of that. And I was going with this somewhere. Hopefully it'll come back in a second. Oh, realizing that evil exists and that these people worship evil and are doing the bidding of evil, I didn't just stop there. I also thought, I'm like, okay, if these people believe in evil, the opposite has to be true. I was like, okay. I'm like, yeah, there has to be, like, I believed in good. I'm like, we have to be, the good people have to win and we have to tap into that goodness

to raise the vibration of this earth. So like, I believe, okay, like duality. I'm like, if there's such evil and darkness, light and goodness has to exist. And so then I started to ponder. I'm like, what is that? And then I found Jesus, the actual good and truth and life and light. And realizing that, I was like, oh, okay, it's not on me. But that's why they're serving Dayton.

That's why this is all. That makes sense now. And I remember being exposed to, like, Bohemian Grove, like, way back in the day. You can't even find a video of some of these things anymore. It was like early YouTube and then figuring out, like, the way that, like, D.C. is built on a all these like the mason the royal mile the egyptian and like seeing obelisk everywhere my husband and I like whenever we would watch a movie like obelisk obelisk like oh there's a mason symbol there's this I'm like oh my gosh like we couldn't you can't unsee it but now when you view it from like

the biblical lens of like yeah this is just this is how the world is going to be until Christ comes back this is demonic it's demonic yeah but he still works through it all there's an absolute spiritual existence around us on both ends, whether people want to admit it or not. There's a lot of people who just want to compartmentalize, and this is true, but this isn't true. And it's like, well, if this is true, then I would strongly suggest you consider that this would be true as well. You know, it's just comfort zones, I suppose. Yeah. It's a lot.

Speaking of comfort zones, the church, coming from the world that you came from, do you feel like, do you feel like you've noticed within, whether it's a church that you've been in to, in general, active operating witches within the church? because there's these, I'll just call them rumors. Yeah. That I've well documented on the show that the enemy will use human agents to infiltrate churches and attack. Right. I've heard of this. And I, as somebody who, you know, I've never walked on the line you've walked. I would imagine you might even be able to see it better than I could. Have you ever had any experiences where you're like, you know, either a very specific,

individual, you're like, I need to talk to past about this person because I'm pretty sure they're witch. Or just in general, maybe it's just practices that it's like, that's witchcraft and I don't even think they realize it. I think the latter. I have, so like, I was one of those people. I wasn't sent on a mission to like destroy the charge of everything, but I was sitting in the pews on a Sunday calling myself a Christian witch, actively practicing witchcraft and trying to worship and trying to break free, not really breaking free from witchcraft, trying to break free from heaviness and whatever, but like, no, there's witches sitting in your church right now, whether they that clicks for them or not.

I do personally think there are people on assignment to be in church and weave their little webs of the enemy, but I haven't come across somebody like that. What would you do if you did? If I did, I know you. Like, I see you. I think I've had little like pings, like discernment of. I don't know how to explain it. Just like understanding.

Discerment. Just discernment. Yeah. Where I'm like, oh, okay. Watch what I say around this person. Like I'm not going to say everything that I'm, that's going on with me to this person. Because I'm like,

I think you get some stuff you're hiding from me. But, and I've had people that are openly talking about like, I'll manifest that for you. I'm like, no, you will not. And I was like, I'm like, I review.

I was like, we don't do that here. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, you're an Ares. I'm like, no, I'm not. No, I'm not. I'm a child of God. Like trying to, I'm like, we're in church. I'm like, I don't, I don't, people that grew up in it sometimes don't understand. Like, I think when you are in that such deep, dark craziness and you come out of it, I don't know, it's like getting oxygen for the first time and you just take the biggest breath and you just are so appreciative. And I'm not saying that someone that grew up in church is not appreciative.

It's a different experience when you, like someone being a refugee, they're going to have a different appreciation for where they are versus being comfortable your whole life. It's just different. That's all. It's not better or worse. It's just different. And sometimes I feel like people that grew up in the church, they don't realize what they're saying. It actually isn't aligning with the Word of God. Like they're talking about horoscopes and manifesting and crystals.

And I'm just like, wait a second. I thought this is the place I was going to come and not witness any of these things. and people are just, they don't understand sometimes. I think the culture of Christianity, the culture that we live in, is so ignorant to what witchcraft is, what occultism is, what evil is, that if it's not somebody walking in through the front door of the church with a boiling pot of potion and mixing something with a wart hanging off their nose and a black hat that comes to a point,

they're like, oh, it's not witch. It's not witchcraft. It's like, because we, like, the culture's so ignorant to what actually witchcraft is that the little stuff can come through because it just seems harmless. Yeah. That's why you were getting involved in the beginning with. Exactly.

And witchcraft is rebellion. Just being in rebellion against God. And like, you don't have to be a, I said this before. I don't know where I've said it, but you don't have to be a practicing witch to be operating in witchcraft. So manipulation. and rebellion. I've heard like, you know, silent treatment, all these things, when you're trying to manipulate to get your own way, like seeking control and power outside of God's will,

that's witchcraft. And that's simple. That's an umbrella term for so many things. And you can get into the occult objects, the actual physical, like maybe Wicca or shamanism, sin, all these different things. But it's so much more. There's a, it's a spirit. It's a way that you're living your life. Are you in rebellion against God because you're operating in witchcraft. Maybe you wouldn't call yourself a witch, but the way you're living your life is. Yeah, I absolutely agree. You mentioned that I think you, I can't remember what era of your life. I think it was when you were doing the, when you were hosting the show, you had some really dark, demonic things happen. Yeah. Could you elaborate on that? Sure. Yeah. So the nature of my show was like a, a hell of,

heavier ones, so it wasn't like, kind of like, you see the ghost bros, like people just joking around, like this was more, me and my co-house would go to highly demonic cases or just really heavy, a lot of dark activity where we dealt with people that were even afraid to live in their house. Like, someone, a woman wasn't living in her house at one point, but we went to places that were experiencing a lot of activity. And the whole idea was sensory deprivation. So the first night, my co-host and I would investigate that whether it was a business, a location or a house, we would determine what the most wanted room in the house was.

And my kind of character type on the show was to be the sensitive, the psychic, you know, the, yeah, I guess sensitive one, just kind of I feel something over here and really lean into that. I was never faking anything, but that was just kind of my, that was my. role on the show. My co-host came from more of a, I think he was a licensed therapist at one point. He developed the show. It was a internet kind of show at one point. And then we got it onto travel channel. But so the idea was sensory deprivation where we then take the person into the most haunted room in the house in the second night and we watched them on security cameras, but we put a bag over their head, a mask. Are we talking about the person that owns the house? Yep. Or the business. business. So whoever is, you know, being affected the most in the house, we would take them

into what we would deem the most active part of the house or the place where they were most afraid of. I just like, I want to cry sometimes thinking about what I part, like, took in. But it was all, I meant well. We meant well. And people were active. They were, they agreed. Everyone was consented to do this. But so we would deprive them of sight. So put the bag over their head and then lead them to the room and the idea was to invoke fear in them so the fear would draw out the spirits and the sensory deprivation obviously heightened the fear but also heightened their other senses so that they would sense what's around them and to help them be a medium or a conduit for these beings to talk to so we would watch them and through this show because of just the cases

we were dealing with, I was in the backwoods of Georgia dealing with a case. This man, his family had a history of black magic of dark witchcraft. His grandmother or great grandmother put hexes on people and there's some deaths on the property. And I believe there was, it's Native American history as well. And they said, this is probably like North Georgia. I forget where it was. I forget. So I'm trying to think when this was, I think filmed that in 2019. And he was, he was of a secret society as well. So I don't know if it was Freemason. I think it was something else, but at that time I was like, oh, that's so cool because I liked that stuff, even though I knew it was evil, but I liked it. Yeah. Anyways, every time I stepped foot on this property and in this house,

I would get so dizzy, like instant vertigo. I started just becoming really weird. Like, during this shoot, I was really paranoid. And I am a little bit of a nervous Nelly, but I'm not anything where I thought they wanted to fire me. Like I thought, oh, I'm not good enough. And we had a guest psychic come on this episode. And I was like, they're auditioning someone else to take my place. Oh, wow. And I really wouldn't think that way. Like, yeah, I struggled with some confidence issues. I still do. But like, nothing to this level. It was just strange. So we're filming and we're behind the house. And I'm looking at my co-host and right behind them, it's the dark woods. everyone was the whole crew was talking about to watch out for moccasins. I'm like, I'm like, why are they

talking about shoes? I didn't know what this snake was, but so like I'm afraid and everyone's like on-night. Yeah, I'm not from, I'm not from the country. Yeah. I'm a city girl. So I'm looking in the woods, like right behind him and I see this like what I can just describe is like a goblin face, orange and gray, kind of like, you know, insidious that face, that creature. It's like just demonic. It literally looked like that, but orange and almost like it was rotting and decaying. And this thing was like seething and coming towards me with this wide eyes. I'm just like, and I, you know, told people, but we couldn't capture anything. And that was the most clear I had ever seen anything was that episode.

And in my entire life, that was the most clear I'd ever seen anything. And it literally looked like I just saw like a full on demon right there with my own eyes. because sometimes when you're in this world, you can see things with your physical eyes or kind of in your mind's eye. It's hard to describe. But I saw that thing. And it just shook me for the rest of the trip. And I then started seeing this tar being. So it was kind of like 10 feet tall, 8 to 10 feet tall. And it looked like it was made out of tar. And ever since that episode, it was kind of like, I don't know, maybe this thing morphed into that or like that was what it chose to be or something. I don't know, but stuff followed me home from that show. And I started seeing this thing in my apartment. You know, that's when I was really into the tarbying? The tarbying. Yeah.

So it followed me around. It then, like I had a shadow figure that I would see growing up, but I called it my friend. It was benevolent, you know, now knowing it was just a watcher. It was just following me and watching me all the time. And I haven't seen it since I came to the Lord, obviously. But this was different. This was a giant. Like if it was in this room, it would be crouching down.

And it looked like it was made of tar, just like this shadow tar being. And I don't know how, but like almost like telepathically, like I knew what it was saying to me. I knew what it was feeling. I knew that it wanted me. And I think of in Genesis when the Lord's talking to Kane, like sin desires to have you. And it's crouching at the door. And like that's just what it felt like it desired to have me. And I was really into love at try.

and manifesting and having altars and stuff. So I would see it hovering over my altar and just like it would look back and like with this weird grin just like I got you. Just you wait. And nothing was working. So I would try to sage it away. Maybe go for like a couple days. But like I would just see these things out of the corner of my eye. I would see it every now and then. And I'm telling you this being on this show and experiencing what I was experiencing and having to like be the face of it, it was a lot to carry. And I saw this thing up until I got saved. And it just like tormented me. I started getting pushed and pulled. And I try to contact spirit guides thinking they could protect me from this thing. I thought I had to do all the work. And I'm like,

I don't know why. I'm like, why did it manifest so much? Like why it started off as just like hearing a voice, hearing a whisper. But I'm like answering my own question now. I'm like, I had the curiosity. I engaged and I went and I fell into it. I came into agreement with it and I started engaging, engaging. And the more I'm engaging with unrepentantant sin, something that God calls detestable, which I didn't know. After I learned that God actually calls witchcraft and necromancing and divination, all these things are detestable. They're an abomination. So I was in contact with this stuff all the time and coming to agreement, inviting it in. unrepentant and no wonder why it escalated to that. And no wonder why I couldn't do anything. I couldn't do anything to save myself from that. No crystal, no sage, no hypnosis, no white light magic, no other spirit guide or being or little G God could help me. Only Jesus. Only Jesus. That's the only thing that set me free from all of that. Was that the investigation you mentioned about Georgia? Because I, you know,

said that you saw that thing to you became a Christian. So throughout the rest of the season, you're seeing it, I'm assuming. Yeah, I think that Georgia episode was one of, towards the end of filming. Yeah. So we filmed for like four months straight and that was towards the end. Did it ever pop up on another investigation? And I think, it's funny, like I blocked a lot out until I started really sharing my testimony. I really, I tell you, like, I had no desire to like be on the camera ever again after all of I wanted to be in Hollywood. I wanted to win an Oscar. I wanted to do all these things. I had a vision board. I was obsessive about making that happen and being like my husband and I moved to New York at one point pursuing acting and he was into sketch comedy and I wanted I just wanted to do it. I wanted to be in that life. And there's so many times where like, oh, I was like slightly connected to possibly getting into a room here or there. I'm like, nope. I'm so glad the Lord never made that happen. And I'm just like I wanted it so. so so bad and I was manifesting it all and I'm trying to think of the question that you asked me

that was leading me to the answer. If it ever showed up anywhere else? Um. Like on an investigation? No. So I, yeah, like I blocked it out because I didn't want anything to do with it after this experience and I was just like I, I would see other things just like other tarp, like shadow beings that weren't like this giant thing and it kind of like split sometimes so I'd see multiple of them.

But no, that was kind of the unique one. And after that Georgia episode, it then followed me to wherever I lived. Yeah, it's because I lived in New York. And then we moved back home to Massachusetts shortly before the lockdown. So that thing was followed me back there as well because it was part of the whole deception. And I let it be a part of me as well. Of all your investigations, is that the most terrifying that you've been on? That's part of the top.

It sounds, the prolonged nature of it sounds. psychologically tormenting. Yes, it was very psychologically tormenting, because it just never left. A lot of other times I had really bad experiences, but I could go home. I mean, things did follow me home like I was saying, but nothing to that level or extent.

That was the worst, and it didn't leave me until I came to Christ because I have no power. In what name? In Christina's name, like that means nothing, that I couldn't do anything. They're not going to listen to me. I thought I had to, you know, the whole premise of our show was for people to tap into their power to tell the demons to go.

And we meant well. And I truly thought we were doing a good thing because I thought like, yeah, empower people. And especially my background of being afraid, but doing it anyways and overcoming great fear. And I thought that was a really commendable thing. But I look back, I'm like, making it worse. Just making it worse for these people. And it's a false sense of empowerment. like I'm glad somebody maybe felt

I don't want to put anyone through fear and like I've repented for it on other podcasts as well and even on my own page as well and I'm just like I feel I feel bad for all that but you know the Lord will use I pray that I pray for those people

all the time that he'll still like protect them and have them come to him one of the the the hardest concepts for us to understand is that when we repent he's like what? Yeah.

Because he forget. As far as the east is from the last. It's like it's not even part of the equation. It's like I'll come back tomorrow like God, I just want to say again, I'm sorry. And he's like about what? Like I don't know. What are you talking about? Like I forgot about that.

Let it go. I know. They just, the enemy and human beings, we want to bring it up all the time. He's like you're beating yourself up more than I'm beating you up, man. Just let it be. Yeah. I let it go. You let it go now.

Yeah. didn't know any better. So this long lifestyle you lived in the different stages, whether you recognize it in the moment or not, you've certainly gotten demonic attachments. And I think, I don't know if we were talking about beforehand or not. So I hate for this to be a repeat, but didn't you, I believe you said you were inviting something into your body. Was there, I don't think we talked about on the show.

jacks taking i mentioned it but i don't think i went into it okay because i was gonna because i didn't think you went into it and i was like if you went into it and i don't remember what you said that's really bad but like there's there's these attachments and if you're inviting something into your body then that's a that's you're inviting a possession um i guess so this is a part two part question now uh the first part is what came from that you know that invitation did Did anything come from that tangibly or was it just an action that you did in the moment? And also, what was the process like for you then getting rid of these demonic influences in your life? And I've also heard, and this is loaded, I'm sorry.

So, Jack, you're going to have to help us remember these questions. But, like, I've also heard that people who come from your background initially have a hard time with the idea of deliverance and things like that. Yes. And so good luck. Okay. Answering all that stuff. I received that. So let me in my ADD.

No, I'll compartmentalize this. So the first part of the question. See? That's great. So the channeling and inviting things in. So like when I started learning about the spiritual realm and like learning how legalistic they are, they're not going to do anything without your permission. That's why when you're engaging with things,

outside of God's will, whether that's necromancy, supernatural, I don't know, getting drunk and doing drugs, all these things, you're opening the doors for demons to come, like, just plain and simple, you're opening the door for a demon to come in and take legal right over you in your life. Like I said in Genesis, the Lord tells Cain, like, sin is at the door and it desire is to have you. The devil is a lion. He prowls around waiting to pounce on you. He's waiting for permission. to seek, kill, kill, and destroy you. So by me saying, come into me, come into my body, use my words, use my mind, use my body, touch me, pull me.

I'm literally inviting these things that desire to harm me into my body. I just gave it legal permission to use me and to be in me. So through that, I was at a location in Massachusetts and I started like, my, my whole body just locked up. And there was a Victorian mansion somewhere. And I was doing this and we were trying to like get it to answer. And all of a sudden I was just like, I couldn't move. And they were, I could talk, but I didn't.

I was in my body, but I wasn't. It was a very strange. Like I can't even have words to explain it. But they were talking to me and I could see people and I apparently was talking. But I couldn't move my body, but I was moving. my body. It was so strange. So maybe like they had to carry me out essentially. Like we got to get her out of the house. So they took me out of the house. And the moment I crossed the threshold, I was able to loosen up again. But like I was just dizzy and I was just out of it. So like I wouldn't be able to

tell you why that happened. I know I invited something in. And maybe it was just like, we're going to mess with her now. We're going to make her think that it's only in this house. So when she crosses across the threshold, everything's okay. And when they started. And when they started to mess with her now, we're going to lighting all the incense or something around her, then it's going to be okay. But that was a horrifying experience and I have control over my body and to lock up like that and to be speaking and not knowing what I'm saying. And I'm just like, you're inviting all of that in. So I think that was part one of the question, but I'm not sure. No, I got it all on lock up here now. So what was the process of the deliverance? Yeah. And then did you have a hard time accepting the idea

of deliverance. Yes. So when I got saved, my dad, my dad had done, and my stepmom did mission work with YWAM. So, like, they were around a lot. They made a lot of friends. And I think they knew a seer that would pray for people. And he helped, like, you know, pray over people and go through deliverance on the phone. And this is when I freshly got saved, like within a week.

And I had, so I called him and he was praying over me. He's like, oh, you came into agreement with this. I'm like, what does that mean? I don't know what agreement is, but like what we said earlier, it's very legalistic. They need permission. They're not going to do it without your consent. Just like Jesus isn't going to come and rule over your life unless he's a gentleman. He's going to let you make that decision and you get to make the choice to make him, you know, the Lord of your life.

So this gentleman was praying for me. And he said I had like, I forget, like 10,000, 6,000 demons. And yeah. That's what we call legions on legions on legions. Yes. Yes. Yes. So at that time, also, I was experiencing very bad physical pain. I had been given a diagnosis of psoriotic arthritis, and I had psoriasis my entire life, and it was just my, my joints were hurting me. I had really bad back pain. I still struggle with that on and off, but it felt like I had Freddie Kruger nails in my leg all day, every day. Like, I tried everything.

CBD drops like rubs and creams and ointments everything like nothing helped physical therapy didn't help it just felt like and I would talk about it back then like it feels like something's just gripping my leg like it just felt like something was going through my entire thigh and it wouldn't let go and that's just how the verbiage I use and that was for like months leading up to this prayer session so this guy he's praying over me and he's telling me he's like you got six thousand thousands of demons and he's like you came into agreement. I've never, I don't think I've shared this before, but he said they're like, they're trying, they try to build technology like in your mind.

And I'm like, that makes sense. Like rewiring brains. I'm like, that makes sense why they would try to kind of actually Tony Robbins and this type of neurolinguistic reprogramming of your mind, like the way you speak and think and your perspective. I was really into that at one point. So I'm like, well, that makes sense why I'm trying to rewire my mind. and the way I speak, that these entities would try to do their own wiring of my brain.

I'm like, that just scientifically checks out, I guess, in my own mind. But yeah, so I got delivered from that. I didn't experience like any like manifestation, but I definitely, I felt that claw leave immediately. I was just like, whoa, I'm like, Jesus is real. This is amazing. And like, that pain hasn't come back. It really hasn't.

And so I experienced that. But then I started listening to, I feel like a lot of people in the Calvinistic hyper-reformed camp have a lot of content online, especially when it comes to New Age and stuff. So I started listening to that. And I started becoming very afraid of anything that had a glimmer of New Age speak. So like renewing your mind and taking care of your thought. every thought captive. I'm like, that's just new age. Like I was, because I was so hyper fixated on like policing every thought I had because I didn't want to attract negative energy into my life or, um, just any like deliverance or any of that. I'm like, well, that's too similar to,

to new age, like, or prophesying or any of these gifts. I'm like, mm-mm, that's not for today. Like I started listening to these people and I was very influenced and, but I also wasn't feeling like I feel like I was shutting off the fullness of God. I feel like I was getting to know the father, son, and the Holy Bible. And I was lacking this relationship with the Holy Spirit. And I was totally being captivated and held captive by the spirit of fear. And I was pregnant. And even through my delivery, like, I struggled really bad with postpartum anxiety where like I didn't even drive for six months. I was getting panic attacks. I was getting chest pains. And this is, I was a Christian. So at that point, like, I was delivered from a lot. And I was out of the new age. I repented. I rebuked, all that stuff.

And I was prayed over. But I was dealing with a lot of fear because we had, I witnessed my grandparents pass away. I know that it was peaceful, but I still witnessed death back to back within a month. So it was the first time I had lost a grandparent. And then we experienced a flood. And then we experienced a flood in our apartment while planning a wedding and then just the whole lockdowns. I think your nervous system takes a while to recover from that alone and just the fear of losing your job and if you speak out with your beliefs or something. So just always living in this fear of just fear, fear, fear, fear and fight or flight mode. And so I was afraid of anything that looked or smelled new age. So postpartum anxiety gripped by that. And I'm just like, I, this can't be it. I'm like, I

I'm so sad. I thought I was supposed to experience more freedom as a Christian. I thought I was supposed to be happy. And we're not promised the perfect life like you see in the new age people. Like, you're not meant to work. You're supposed to let money work for you. And like, you can be on vacation. I'm like, no, I know it's not going to be that. But I'm like, where's this peace people we're talking about? You know, I think the Bible talks about peace. And I'm like, I'm not experiencing that. And so I'm like, okay. So I started getting into. just listening to different, like opening myself up to that. And I'm like, oh, I've been deceived again. Because of the fear of not wanting to go back, it kind of got me into this religiosity of like, well, it has to look like this. And I'm going to listen to these people tell me to stay away from these people instead of me actually asking the Lord and giving me the discernment and leaning on him and the Holy Spirit. And I remember just being like, I need to have a relationship with the Holy Spirit. it. And through that, it was just like, I've been through deliverance. I'm a full on believer of the gifts. And I'm like, you cannot get me to stop believing in them. That's just, yeah. But I definitely see how that pipeline from New Age to Christianity, it can be scary to open yourself up back into that realm of like spirituality and the way you speak and the gifting stuff. Because the devil just took God's gifts and he perverted them. He took what is. holy and good and righteous and he made it yucky and demonic, for lack of a better term. I too struggled with postpartum anxiety.

Yeah. Men can struggle with me. I did. I was telling you, that's my first. When my son was born, I was terrified of everything. I was like, we didn't drive with it. I refused to drive that kid in a car for a long time. I was like, people are crazy in the world.

I see it every day. He's staying in the house. I jacked a test like we didn't take Ben to my parents' house. Like you got to come visit us. We ain't taking the kid nowhere. Like I was terrified. I think I think I was more scared than Lindsay was. Yeah. And like men actually go through postpartum like feelings as well. Like there's a whole shift in your hormones. It's amazing how the Lord designed it. But it, it gripped me. It took me like 18 months to finally sit in the front seat or like maybe 14 months to sit in the front seat again. Really?

Oh my gosh. I had to watch, I was watching the monitor all the time and it's just like this spirit of fear, anxiety. Like I'm telling me. We're not meant to live in that. No. No, no, no, no. And I literally, when I went through deliverance, I wasn't like, I didn't have a crazy

manifestation, but mine was a very, the Lord ministered to me so sweetly and just like able to recognize exactly where certain things came from. And the moment that my minister called it out, it was just like. tears. I'm like, that was it. And I felt fear leave my body. And not that I don't experience fear, I still get nervous. Like, that's a normal human thing that God gave us feelings. They're good to indicate. Fear is a good thing. I want to be afraid of that lion chasing after things. But I literally where I used to feel fear in my body, I don't feel it anymore. I'm like, that was a thing living in me. And I don't feel it gripping, gripping my insides. Literally,

gripping my heart in my stomach, I don't feel that anymore. And it's been almost a year since that. And I'm like, is that an immediate relief for you? It was. It was like, it was so immediate. I'm like, I didn't realize that thing had been kind of calling the shots for a long time. Even though, like, I was praying against it. But once I was able to recognize where it came in from, then I was able to be delivered

from that. Not that you don't have to understand where it comes from all the time to be delivered from something, but for me personally, I guess that was the choice that had to be, that was made. Yeah. Yeah. I'm kind of a similar boat, but not, obviously, I don't have the past that you have with the new age and all that. But it took me a long time to come to grips with the idea of deliverance and that stuff. I was like, I don't know how I feel about that. I remember doing episodes back in the day where somebody was a couple times I had like deliverance ministers on and stuff.

and I was like, I don't know if I agree with any of this. I was like, I was like, and it wasn't until I moved here, really. And I started, God did a lot of things in my life in that season. And he steered me in the direction of the church I'm in. And it's not like my church. Like, I can't think of one time where a pastor, like, pulled somebody and like, we're going to pray a prayer or deliverance on you or anything like, but it's like, I got around people who really believed in the moving of the spirit.

Yes. And the power of God. Yeah. And they weren't shy about it. And they were not casual. And at the same time, I'm with what I do for a living coming into this new stage chapter of the show where I'm like, I can't pretend to not know what I know. And then in my everyday real life,

I have this supporting cast of real people, not internet people, real people who are confirming to me what I do is a ministry and all this stuff. And it was like this, or divinely ordained perfect storm. I just was like, oh, wow. And then I started seeing things

and people that deliverance side of things. And it just, it was a lot. But I kind of come from a very similar background. I mean, even I mentioned to you about the different people that I kind of ran with and filling stuff, very reformed. And so like when I had my rebellion in my 20s and I came back to the Lord, I came back right into more reformed. You know, because that was my comfort zone. You know, I was raised kind of hostile, but I was like, that's for people who are stupid idiots. And they don't want to think about anything.

They just want to live by the spirit. I was like, come on. And yeah, like, I was raised Catholic, so this is not every church, but the part of Massachusetts I'm from, just if you sang along, just like very emotion, what is that? Don't show emotion in church. But like we also, like the church supports exorcism. So they understand that, but it's not like your everyday person wasn't learning about that stuff.

they left that to clergy and learning about, you know, I'm not Catholic. I'm spiritual Christian or believer and learning that like, no, we all are given the grace and the power to do that in Jesus' name. And learning about all of this, I'm like, he's equipping. He equips us to do the work for him. And like, my church is the same. He's not like, we're going to stop. And well, sometimes I'll just lift somebody up in prayer. but there's such an equipping going on that like to empower us to not be asleep anymore. Like stop looking to the stage to worship for you. Don't be a spectator for performance or don't just let the pastor break the word for you. Like do it all week.

It's not up to the people that are up on stage and you go out and you're going to meet people in your life that you got to pray for. So it's not just on a Sunday. It's, are you prepared to do that Monday through Saturday as well? And that has been such a, been learning so much. I just love, like, just shutting up and listening sometime. Like, I remember praying for wisdom and the Lord brought just so many wise women from my church, like just elderly women into my life. I'm like, oh, these are the people that you just, when they talk, you just shut up and listen. I'm like, that's the wisdom I prayed for right there, these women.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like for me, I just had this, like, thought pop in my head. call it a Holy Spirit download. I was, so Jack, Jack and my grandfather was a preacher. Didn't have a church, but he preached at like Big Ten Revivals. And he would tell us stories about healing and angels showing up. And so from a young age, always understood that part of the supernatural.

And I always wanted to experience something like that, see an angel or see somebody miraculously healed. but I didn't, I was picking and choosing what the supernatural I was willing to go, but also like I was in, by doing the picking and choosing, I was putting a ceiling on God's supernatural manifestation to the ones that he loves. Yeah. And deliverance is that. It's literally God manifesting in a supernatural way by kicking out demonic forces that are, do not belong there. You can't get rid of it yourself. Deliverance is not something that you can just

do underneath, you know, like you said earlier, your name. It's only the name of Jesus that's going to kick that stuff out. Amen. And it's a ministry of love because you see Jesus doing that in the Bible. He had compassion on people. It literally says he looked on them with compassion and he was doing that because he loves us. It's not because he's trying to make us go to something weird or torture or just make us look silly. It's like because he loves us and he wants to see. see us set free. And I thank him every day that he set me free from all of those, all of those things that I invited into my life or sometimes that your family invites into your bloodline. There's all these different ways, but like the Lord can do it. It's like,

why not let him? Why put him in a box? Who are we to say what he can and cannot do? I'm just like, I am just me. You are you. You can do what you want. You brought up the bloodline just now. And you did say that something about that earlier too. And this is more perspective for you as to how you view certain things. But do you feel like these entities feel like they have a legal right to you in 2026 because of something that somebody that you don't even know existed 150 years ago made a deal with something and said, I will give you the next 20 generations of my family line if you give me, make some kind of deal. And because that's what you were talking about.

You were talking about like alcoholism throughout a family or different things that are patterns. Do you think that that could be a possibility or do you feel like that's more just human element? I think it could be both because, you know, you see families with teenage pregnancy. The chances of it happening again and again and again are very high. I've seen that happen generation, generations. And I feel like you see alcoholism go through to feel me as well. I feel like there can be, I'm not a theologian, so I'm not like going to be able to tell you. Yeah, so I'm not like a Bible teacher or preacher, so don't be looking at me for that stuff.

But I know that the Bible talks about, I don't know remember where, but it talks about the sins of a generation will carry on for generations as well. that's why Jesus came to break that so when I feel like if I'm not if to my understanding this okay ask your pastor or trusted individual with the Bible don't ask me but from what my understanding is that that can carry on until it's broken by Jesus until you're under the blood under a new covenant and I've just I've witnessed it in my life I've seen alcoholism go down the family line and my dad he's been sober I've never seen him take a drink and he struggled as well until Jesus. So, but I see it affect so many other people in my family.

We've lost family members very early from this stuff. And you see it with drugs and in different families. Or divorce runs rampant, like, or just different medical. You don't know. You don't know. And learning about how even just in biology, so when a woman is carrying a female in her womb when she's pregnant and it's a girl, she's technically carrying

half of her grandchildren because, so like my grandmother carried half of me in her. So like biologically speaking it's like you have pieces in you

from so far, so far back. So I'm like what my grandmother ate just from a biological standpoint what she ate, whatever medicine, what toxins,

what paint she was around what there was smoking, that actually affected me. So like imagine going back Like if my, imagine if an ancestor was into witchcraft or at one point I really, my family comes from Ireland and I really wanted to get in touch with my Celtic pagan roots. I was like, there has to be somebody in my bloodline that this is how I thought back then. I'm like, that was pagan until like they came and destroyed all of that.

My gosh. And so I really wanted to get in touch with that. So I'm like, well, yeah, there has to be. There probably is. I mean, we all go back to the same two people. So yeah, there's definitely someone. some people back there that are not doing good things. But don't you love these sermons?

Some people back there not doing such good things. Go to Jesus. You sound like you talk like me. I talk good. Oh my gosh. But yeah, no, I fully believe that that could be a thing. That makes sense. Because you see it on the demonic side too, where they care about bloodlines and blood oath.

Like, blood is very important in the spiritual realm. So that's why you see we were bought with a price through Jesus's blood. The covenant of blood is a covenant. It seals things. And you see that in like Santa Maria and witchcraft and Satanism. Like there's just blood is important. It's life force. And when things are entered through one line, your blood carries on.

And I just, I don't know. That's just how my mind works. I'm like, that makes sense to me because then you just see people set free. And then Jesus broke the chain of that. And it stops with you because of him. Yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned something earlier and I've been holding on from asking it until now because it's an I got-you question. I'm just kidding. No. As we bring it in here, I want to know, I guess my last question to you is you went through all this stuff. You did TV. You said, I don't want to do TV anymore. I don't be on camera. Why are you now sharing your test? testimony where you're now on camera. And you've been on Michael Null's show, Isaiah Salvador, I think you're on Taylor's show. And so like, why do you feel,

let's do two parts actually. Why? But how did that why come about? Like, you know, what was it that made you say, I need to start talking about this? Right. I know. It's funny. I was totally fine. Just going back, living in Massachusetts, just I didn't know what I was going to do my life, but I knew I wanted to be a mom and I got pregnant. I'm like, okay, I'm just going to serve my local church. I'm like, maybe something will come someday where like, maybe I'm a singer. I love to worship. I'm like, maybe I could worship or whatever. I wasn't even on a worship team, but I remember my daughter was six months old and I was following Angela, heaven and healing. and she had a very similar story and her channel was a little bit, it was different back then, not super different, but she was also in the same mindset of like no deliverance. And so we were following each other. I was following her. And she had me on to share my testimony. I don't know even know how it happened, but I think she was looking for people. And I was just like, oh, I was a ghost finder. So if you ever need to talk about a paranormal testimony. And so she had me on. I was so thankful for that opportunity to do that. This was, and

2020, very early 2023. So I was just less to do that. I wasn't really like seeking it. It was just more like, hey, if you need a paranormal story, sure. And I think obviously her channel has grown so much as it should. And so it was a little bit smaller back then. I wasn't seeking a platform or anything. But through that, I'm trying to think.

Like I was on Isaiah's show and he was able to vet me because I was on Angela's show. And the Lord has just opened up the door. I'm not knocking on doors. And I'm like... I mean, I can verify that. I reached out to you. Right. You know, and I'm just like, Lord, and I...

I'm just so humbled. I'm like, Lord, if this is the last time I do it, okay, sure. I'm like, it's more like I'm honored to do it. But if I never do it again, okay. But I think it's important to talk about. And I think... I'm going to cry. I just think about it just because I'm like,

so many people are trapped in this deception where... I just see people that are in where I was where they think, they think they can talk to somebody that has passed on. And as much as I wish I could talk to somebody, like I lost my nana. She was my best friend. And I lost her right before my daughter was born. And thank God I was Christian when she passed away because I would have been trying to talk to her. And I wish I could talk to her. But God is gracious enough to give me that closure.

And I know where she is. you to give her life to Christ. And I'm never going to say where somebody is because you don't know what somebody said in their last moments of life. You don't know, we don't know where anyone is. But we can't, we can't talk to people. We can't. And God, his word says that when we, when we die, we face judgment. Absent with the body is present with the Lord. And I think it would almost be cruel for him to allow us to travel back and forth. This is just my point of view. Because how How torturous would that be? For me, as an individual, I also don't want to think that these witches can conjure my grandmother, thinking they can talk to her and, like, do something with her soul. Like, no, that's it. That's it. When we die, we're one of two places. And I also just see people stuck in this torment of being in pain, being depressed, thinking they can talk to past loved ones, not getting closure. And it's really, they get really upset when they don't get a sign. from their loved one. That's, that's hard too. Like, our God is not cruel in that sense. Our God is a good

father. He knows what's best for us and he's going to keep us safe. He knows how dangerous the spiritual realm is because outside of him, it's like lawlessness. They want to seek, kill and destroy. They want to have us and just chew us up and spit us out. So he tells us these parameters for operating in the spiritual realm, not because he's boring, not because he's a bad guy wanting to keep us in a box because he loves us and he wants us to keep our eyes on him. So I see people that are trapped in this, just like I was, and that's why I want to talk about it. Because I see people coming out of New Age, from psychic, from mediumship, from Satanism. There are people like me out there, but I don't hear a lot of them talking about coming out of

ghost hunting. And people might think it's just for entertainment. that it's harmless, but it really isn't. And I thank the Lord that he's given me the opportunity to share my story and that it would just, even if it sets one person free, I'm like, okay. And if it never sets anybody free and maybe 50 years from now, if we're even still on this earth and YouTube is a thing or something, if one person hears it and gets set free, then hallelujah, all of heaven is rejoicing. And I'm just going to keep one step at a time as much as he's graced me to do. I'm like, I just say yes, that yes to the next thing he has me do. And this is how it's unfolded, apparently. So you never know what's going to happen when you say yes to the Lord. Because sometimes when you say never to the

Lord, he's going to have you never, never ring like you never have before. I can't take credit for that quote. I've heard it somewhere. I don't remember who. But yeah, look at me nevering. I never wanted, I never liked worship music. And now I'm leading worship. Never wanted to be on camera and I'm back again. But I'm like, it's all for his glory. Because I'm like, I don't get any of this. I'm like, maybe this is my story, but he's the author of it. And you don't go from which to a worship leader by yourself. Like that is just outside of my realm of strength. And you don't get this veil lifted off by yourself. You don't go through any of this by yourself. It is only through Jesus and through the work of his finished work on the cross as well. That's why I'm doing it.

I love it. I love it. I thank you for coming and chatting with me and having a great conversation. Thank you so much. It's an honor and this was awesome. Awesome. They told me to look. I just know that we're more than what they tell us. We protect what is precious. We get confused and those things start to propel us. Into things we don't want to do, leave us helpless.

There's only one who gives us peace when we are restless. I know that now.