The Confessionals - 897: 1,500 Demons & Her Escape From Witchcraft | Jenny Joy

Episode Date: September 15, 2026

How deep can someone go into witchcraft before there seems to be no way back? Jenny Joy joins Tony Merkel to share a disturbing journey through childhood trauma, occult practices, demonic encounters, and an underground witchcraft temple that pulled her deeper into darkness. Even after coming to Jesus, Jenny says the spiritual battle was far from over, leading to a series of intense deliverance experiences that exposed just how much torment had followed her for years. Her story moves from terrifying encounters and spiritual bondage into a fight for freedom, healing, and a completely transformed life. This is a powerful testimony of deliverance, spiritual warfare, and what happened when a former witch finally broke free.If you’re able, consider helping the Merkel family with medical expenses by donating to Lindsay’s GoFundMe: https://gofund.me/b8f76890📕 Pre-order Tony's Book: https://a.co/d/0bJS3SaV📰 Subscribe to Our Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/newsletterBecome a member for ad-free listening, extra shows, and exclusive access to our social media app: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinThe Confessionals Social Network App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZThe Counter Series Available NOW:The Counter (YouTube): WATCH HEREThe Counter (Full Episode): WATCH HERETony's Recommended Reads: slingshotlibrary.comIf you want to learn about Jesus and what it means to be saved: Click HereMerkel Media Apparel: merkmerch.comJenny Joy Instagram | Book | WebsiteSPONSORSGHOSTBED: GhostBed.com/tonyQUINCE: quince.com/tonyIVERMECTIN: twc.health/tonyVENICE AI: https://venice.ai/theconfessionalsRUMBLE WALLET: https://rumblewallet.onelink.me/bJsX/ConfessionalsCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] ADDRESS:Merkel Media6726 Morganton RdP.O. Box #08Greenback, TN 37742SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/theconfessionals/Discord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelProduced by: @jyorkofficialOUTRO MUSICTony Merkel - Down The Rabbit HoleAvailable on Spotify

Hey, everyone, before we get to this week's show, this is just your weekly reminder to please continue to pray for my wife, Lindsay. She is battling breast cancer right now, and we're praying for complete healing in Jesus' name. Thank you. Merkel. Media. This was all circulating around the base that a giant had been killed, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, bony fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappeared.

When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And he starts running and firing at this giant. With a giant moves, he's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast. And spears Dan holds him up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face. They basically decapitated. Got prices, got closer, got closer, got poison, when he got about 15 yards away from me,

I raised that 12 days and I blow this head off. I feel something pulling at my leg, and I look over and there are two small. Reach my hand into this bush, and I touch air. Couldn't breathe, and I couldn't move, because I know I'm seeing a monster.

Welcome to the show, everybody you're listening to the Confessionals podcast. I'm your host Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here. If you have a story you want to share with me on the show, a topic you'd like to discuss, go ahead and shoot us. an email. Our email address is contact at the confessionalspodcast.com. That's contact at the confessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the contact section, and you can reach me that way as well. Either works for me, just get a hold of me. If you want more shows

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All right, friends, listen, Merk Merchmerch.com, M-E-R-K, merch.com is back. And we have a cool, very limited supply. New T-shirt available. It's called Merck Babies. It's the Merck Babies. It's based off a sling

Shot Nation live episode we did a couple weeks ago. We made a t-shirt for it and it's available only for pre-sale for the rest of this week up till Wednesday at midnight. So Wednesday at 1159 p.m. Easter standard time, it will no longer be available and everybody who has pre-ordered, we will ship it to you as soon as the order gets in. So if you want the new Merk Baby's merch or any other merch in there, including the coffee, mugs, we have the mugs in style. We have the mugs in style. too. So we have new mugs in stock, coffee, everything's right there at murkmerch.com. Hopefully you come on over and browse what we have. Friends, we have the book coming out here just in a few weeks. We have The Confessionals, Exposing Word in Kingdoms, is a book that I wrote and it's coming October 6th.

And you can get your pre-order in right now by hitting the link into the description below or just going to Amazon searching Tony Merkel book or the title of the book, The Confessionals, Explorexioners, opposing war in kingdoms, it'll come up and you can pre-order and get your order in now because that helps the book and the success of it moving into the future. So thank you very much to everybody who has pre-ordered. I'm very excited about my very first book being published and released on October 6th. All right, friends, let's get to the business. Today we are sitting down with Jenny Joy. She's a former witch whose life was marked by childhood trauma, addiction, underground witchcraft, and years of spiritual torment

before ultimately surrendering her life to Jesus Christ. She walks us through what she describes as 30 exorcisms over an 18-month period involving roughly 1,500 demons, while unpacking how trauma, unforgiveness, sexual sin, and spiritual agreements can become doorways to bondage. This is an incredible story, so let's get to Jenny Joy right now. Jenny Joy, how are you? I'm good. I'm stoked to be here.

Yeah. Yes. I'm glad you're here. This was a bit of a long time coming. I know I reached out to you. It had to be like three years ago. I think you were still in Texas. It was two years ago, so it was right after I left Texas. Okay. Yeah. It just kind of felt like I, like I didn't have a Derek at the time to manage my everything. And I just kind of like dropped off. And then I forget what it was, but you popped back up on something else.

And I was like, I think I talked to her at one point about coming on the show. And sure enough, we got it going. So here we are. Good timing, though. Yeah. I'm glad you're here. Just a note to the audience. If you hear me coughing, I'm fighting a sore throat.

So I'm going to have tea here. And I'm trying my best. But I apologize if I start coughing on the show. Jack will be quick with the mute button, I assume. So listen. 1,500 demons over an 18-month period. Yeah. And what was it, 30 exorcisms you went through?

Yeah, in that year and a half. Yeah. So let's just start there. You know, like how that happened. How does that happen? Yeah. I mean, I didn't plan a deliverance. Like, I know people make deliverance appointments, and this is a conversation.

I encourage people, you know, to seek out deliverance. But the way that it happened for me was June 19th, June 14th, 2019. I had walked into a church to receive like a one-hour prayer healing session. And it was a month before that that I was living in sin. I had already come to Jesus. But at this point in time, the Lord had told me to join like a prayer team and be on, you know, the altar and pray for people. And I was like, okay, cool.

So I did that for a month. And then after that month, I learned that they had hour-long prayer healing sessions. And I'd had chronic pain in my back since I was 12, I think, you know, scoliosis, just like lots of health issues, chronic migraines, all this stuff, had been through so much abuse and had witchcraft in my past. And I was like, oh, they have these hour-long prayer healing sessions. Like, maybe my back will get healed. I don't know. And I had been through so much prayer before in witchcraft, all the false healing modalities and had never been healed. And so I sign up and I just put on the application like three sentences, witchcraft in my past, childhood abuse,

chronic pain. That's it. And I don't know what the heck to expect. I had driven like 10 hours to Bethel to receive prayer before and nothing happened. So I was like, probably nothing's going to happen, but this might be like nice, you know, to have these people pray for me. And so it was 9 a.m. on a Friday. And I walk into this mega church. And it's a lukewarm church, but there were like fiery people on the prayer team, you know, who knew what they were doing. And I walk in through the church doors. And I remember just like shaking. And I was like, why am I like having anxiety to like get prayer? I'm on the dang prayer team. Like, what am I so nervous about. And I go in there, my hands are sweating, I'm shaking. I'm literally sitting on my hands,

because I'm like shaking so much. And what I didn't know is that the demons I had knew their time was up before I even knew, like what was going on. And I'd experienced, like, my life was a paranormal horror film pretty much. So I knew about, you know, spiritual warfare and the supernatural and demons and ghosts, which are demonic spirits, right, familiar spirits. And, yeah, go into the session and these three ladies sit down and they're, were like, hey, we've been praying for you, you know, all week. We're going to play a worship song. They play a worship song. It's like, I don't know, three minutes, but it felt like a century. I was like, when are we going to turn off this music? Because I was just so nervous, you know?

And yeah, they start to pray and they each tell me, like, the Lord has given us prophetic words for you. And they each say the same thing. And they said, the Lord told us you're an unforgiveness. And I'm like, I don't even really know what that means. Like, I've done all this trauma work. I've done all this therapy, I've done 12-step programs. I've gotten real about what I've been through. Like, I don't know what it means to be in unforgiveness, right? But I was like, okay. And they're like, let's, we're going to just pray for you. And so Sue, who's still my mentor today, God bless this woman, she puts her hand on my shoulder and starts to pray. And I immediately went into what I have known as one of the mental illnesses that I had, which was DID dissociative identity disorder,

which in layman terms is multiple personality disorder. So I was diagnosed with four different altars. Nobody has four different personalities. You have a question? No, no, no, keep going. I was like, I can see the wheels turning. You're going to see that a lot. Yeah, so I was diagnosed many different things, but one of them was DID, four different altars, and then there's me. And so Sue leans over to pray for me and I go into what I have known as the three-year-old altar. And I immediately cover my eyes and start screaming at the top of my lungs. No, no, no, no, no. if you see somebody do that and you're praying for them, that's a demon. That's a demonic spirit, right? And so I cover my face. I start screaming out and these three women just stand to their feet. And for three hours, they're casting demons out of me. So I'm like in and out of consciousness. I'm like blacking out. I'm, it almost felt like, you know, I did like a little bit of theater in high school and your backstage and there's, you know, the performers on the front of the stage. It almost felt like I was behind a curtain and I was seeing things that were happening. Like, things were coming out of my mouth.

Like my body was moving in these crazy ways, but I had no control, but I could see what was happening at the same time. And so I was like in and out of this consciousness. I wouldn't say it's out of body. Have you ever been through like deliverance? Like full-blown deliverance? I'm probably going to do it for her session. Okay.

I was like, me and Derek were talking about it earlier. And I was like, everybody should go at least once a year. That's like where I stand with that. Like you're going to see a dentist or a doctor. That local guy was telling you about earlier? Yeah. That's who I'm going to be going to be going. through. Love it. Can't wait to hear about it. So maybe you'll know what I'm talking about if you go through

it and there's some stuff there, you know, but it, no, it wasn't out of body. It was like I'm in my body, but I have zero control over what is happening, right? I had no authority in Christ at that time, so I don't have the authority to be like, I bind the spirit or whatever, but the women are doing what they could do. And so they're casting all these demons out of me. I'm like growling, I'm hissing. I'm speaking another language. I mean, it was literally like an exorcism, like one of those horror movies, it felt like that, except in those movies, those are demonically inspired, right? But I'm getting freer and freer and freer. And so... This is at the altar? No, this was the hour-long prayer healing session. So they, like, you book...

So this isn't Bethel. No, no. I had driven to Bethel one time to receive prayer. I'd nothing happened. So this was at my church that I was at in Southern California. It was like lukewarm, mega-church, whatever. And so, yeah, I got delivered of multiple spirits that day. They cast out spirits of witchcraft, sexual spirits. Like, half of the demonel Monarch spirits I got delivered of over that year and a half were sexual spirits, right? And I was like, there's a lot in there. Like, who, you'd think that there would just be like one sexual spirit. No, if there's perversion, if there's homosexuality, if there's, you know, masturbation, if there's pornography. Like, those are all different types of sexual spirits. And so, yeah, I got, like,

massively delivered. And I walked out of that room after three hours, just, like, floating on an actual cloud. Like I, the best way that I could describe it is like, you know when you're a kid and you have a loose tooth, right? And you're like, you don't want to pull it out because you're afraid it's going to hurt, but then you're trying to eat food and it's like agitating it, whatever. It felt like my whole life, I had a bunch of loose teeth and they finally got pulled out. And it was just this relief, this freedom. And yeah, I walked out of that church that day just on a cloud. So the deliverance,

one, did you know walking out that day that you went through a deliverance is how you identified it. But I get the sense

that, because I went through, I say I never went through deliverance. One time I did, but it wasn't like planned. It was accidental. But it was, I remember they prayed over me

and I felt like something spiritually but physical lift off me. Yes. And I realized like the next day that I had not felt this weightless since the day I went. My story, we don't get into it, but I want to, I was tricked by a warlock to go to his house. He was a Satanist. And this was before I was a podcaster.

And I spent three hours at his house. And he was unleashing a lot of stuff on me. Yeah. And I hadn't felt that good since that day. Wow. And so I had that experience. but with your experience, is it something where it's like, like the loose teeth, you didn't even know you had loose teeth until they were taken out and all of a sudden. It's like, wow.

Like, does that make sense? Yes. Yeah. And I knew that things were coming out of me because I was also seeing in the spirit. And one of the girls, one of those three ladies also saw in the spirit. So she was seeing things that I was seeing. So, yeah, I was literally seeing demonic spirits in the room because I'm in and out of this consciousness. They're casting out demons and then I'm like growling.

I'm hissing, right? And then like I would come forward after me. I would come forward after and I would just be crying and be like, I love you, Jesus. Like help me. And then it's like I would go back under. Yeah, it was really gnarly. And there was this one point, I don't remember what the spirit was. And I talk about it in my book actually, but it was like they had cast something out of me.

And my head went backwards. And I saw this like, I mean, seven or eight foot tall demon like come out of my mouth. Like it almost reminded me like literally of Ghostbusters. Like, you know, how there's like green ghosts in that movie. It all, it, like, reminded me of that. It was this wavy-like spirit. And I made this inhuman shriek or wail because demons cry when they come out. They scream, they fight, they cry.

Like, you know, they're suffering when they're coming out. And so that's what was happening is this thing came out of my mouth. And I just fell forward after that thing came out of me. And, you know, I didn't tell them about my mental illness. Like I said that I had struggled. They didn't know that I was on psych medication. any of that. And three days later, one of the ladies that was on the prayer team, the one who could also see in the spirit, she calls me. And she was like, hey, Jenny, just wanted to check in with you.

Like, how are you doing? How are you feeling? And I was like, I feel amazing. Like, this is crazy. And I'm thinking, this is it. Like, I've just, I got fully free and that's it. But I went through, you know, 29 more after that. And that year and a half, it was insane. But each time it got better. And I learned my authority. So it wasn't as extreme each time. Some of them were really intense, right? But she calls me, she's checking in with me, and she says, God wants me to tell you, this is a bold word. She said, you do not have bipolar one disorder. You do not have PTSD. You did not have multiple personality disorder. And you did not need to be on medication. None of that was on the internet. Right. There was, I wasn't this content creditor that talked about this stuff yet. I mean, I think I did talk a little bit about mental health. But that was not out there. And she didn't know that I was on medication. And I'd been tapering down with my psychiatrist, was on psych meds for 10 years, was tapered. down and was on the lowest dosage. And I was going to see with my doctor if I could handle being off medication. So that was already like being worked through. And so when she said this,

I immediately got off my psych meds. And it was the same medication for 10 years. If you get off it for 12 hours, 24 hours, you feel like the effects of the withdrawal. You know what I'm saying? The emotional, the physical, whatever. Like if you get off that medication, people go into a manic episode, people will attempt to, you know, unalive themselves, lose their mind. So it's really dangerous, you know, and I just knew, get off. And I got off no physical withdrawal, no emotional withdrawal. All the symptoms of DID after that deliverance, gone. Every single symptom of bipolar one disorder, gone. Multiple components of complex PTSD that I was diagnosed with, gone. There was still some mind renewal stuff with that. But like, I had chronic flashbacks. I had chronic

nightmares. I was on nightmare medication where... I didn't know they made that. I know. I didn't either until my psychiatrist was like, hey, this is like tormenting you should be on meds. So I tried it. I didn't really like it. It didn't work. It made me have weird dreams. They weren't as scary, but they were still weird. You know, because it's messing with the like biology and the chemical, you know, balances in your brain. But yeah, I would fall asleep and have three, four, five, six nightmares a night and and then wake up and be tormented all day long with my trauma. So I live. So I live. in a 24-7 cycle of torment and trauma. And so when I got delivered, that stopped. One of the main things

that got delivered of was a spirit of unforgiveness. Like I said, those ladies mentioned it in the beginning. I don't even know that was a thing. You know, we think like, oh, that person's just bitter, that person's really provocative or this person is, you know, they've always had anger. Like, yeah, that could point to other things that are going on emotionally. But when it becomes a part of your personality, it's a demonic spirit. Yes. Right? Like, when I got delivered of, like I said, half of the things I got delivered of were sexual spirits. So much changed. I think I got rid of half of my wardrobe. I was convicted about things I'd never been convicted. I still needed, you know, mind renewal and discipleship and help because I was like, oh, I didn't know

that I shouldn't wear that. But like, I had changed so much and so many things that were just a part of my personality. Oh, Jenny's always been this way. That went away when I got delivered. Like crazy. I remember one of my deliverances I got delivered of a spirit of anger. And that came in. can remember when it came in. It was around the third grade. And, you know, it became like a self-protection thing. And when I was getting delivered of that spirit, because people can make friends with their demons. Like, you know what I mean? Become part of you. Yes. And a lot of the stuff I wanted to let it go. I was like, oh, this is awful. Like, witchcraft spirits are evil and stubborn. Like, I don't do that anymore. I don't want that. The sexual stuff, I don't want that. I was in a sex and love addiction

program trying for years to get free of these things, right? And, but that spirit of anger, it manifested and they were trying to cast it out. And I kept hearing it say like, no, like no, but it was in the sad voice. And I was like, I remember being in tears. It's like sounds bizarre, but like people that have been through this might understand, you know. And I was in tears and I said, Sue, like, I don't want to let it go. It's saying that it's my friend. And she was like, she was like, honey, it is not your friend. And I just, I, that's when I stepped into my authority that was maybe like my eighth deliverance, seventh or eighth. And I just was like, you're not my friend. Like, get out of me. And I got delivered of it. Because I had rage before.

And I hated men, right? Just because all the abuse I had been through. So most of the rage and anger went towards men. And there were some women that were involved too. But yeah, it was a crazy deliverance. That's wild. And it was a, there was a strange emotional tie to that demonic spirit. Yeah, I can see that. I mean, if, if, It's something that's been part of you for so long. You don't know what life is without it. Before going any further, I want to give you an opportunity to tell people where they get the book because we were just talking about the book and stuff. So tell people about the book where they can get it and stuff.

Yeah. My book is called The Witch and the Lamb. You can get it on Amazon. I sold out of my signed copy, so I don't have that anymore. But I know my publisher is working on getting it into Target, Walmart, Barnes & Noble. But if you want it today, Amazon is the best place to find it. And your publisher is Destiny Image. Yes.

We love them. Yeah, shout out. But yeah, I wanted to make sure I covered that. And Jack will put it all in the description and everything like that. But you said you remember the spirit of anger coming in in the third grade. Yeah. So I grew up in a really rough environment. And I don't remember the spirit of anger coming in as much as I remember.

I can't remember where I was or anything. I remember making a distinct decision that I'm no longer going to be kind and forgiving to people. Wow. And I'm going to be as mean and nasty as they are to me. And that, I would say probably for me, was when that spirit of anger came into me. Because I opened myself up and I was like, whatever these people are dishing on me, I now want a piece of that. Yeah. And that agreement.

Yeah. Yeah. And I feel it's weird. So when I interact with people from back into Philly, some people will trigger and I'll feel like this old aggression coming out. So I guess I need to go through delivers for that. Yeah. And anger is typically a neon sign that points to unforgiveness.

So whenever I have clients or I'm helping people, friends, family, whatever, and they're dealing with chronic anger or rage or whatever, kind of like what you're talking about. You made this agreement. It usually is a neon sign that points to unforgiveness. Because if you think about, you know, the spirit of unforgiveness, what falls under that? Spirits of offense, spirits of bitterness,

spirits of resentment, anger, rage, violence, murder, all that stuff. So some people can literally get delivered of spirits of murder and violence, and they've never done that. But there's been that in their heart. They've come into agreement with that spirit. maybe they have constant intrusive images of X, Y, and Z. You know, there's different people I work with, I work with a lot of people of OCD, right? And I'll say, okay, well, because there's subtypes of OCD.

And I'll say, okay, what's your subtype, whatever, that they've been diagnosed with? And they'll say, yeah, I deal with intrusive images. And I'm like, of what? Like, tell me what it is, because that intrusive image that you're constantly being tormented by reveals what demonic spirit is actually at play, right? So, yeah, there's spirits of fear and control in OCD, but if you're having constant thoughts about weapons and violence, there's a spirit there connected to that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And so usually the first thing that I go for with people is like walking them through forgiveness.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And I think forgiveness is huge and it's overlooked a lot. Oh, yeah. So I think, I think it's Mark, it's somewhere Mark Christ himself says part of the process of healing is you have to forgive first. Yeah. And that was something that like I really, I really had to like do a gut check on so many things because there, I mean, in my life, obviously my wife's life, like I want healing for a lot of things. Right. You know? And when I, when Lindsay was diagnosed with cancer, I was, I was trying to take the wheel. I was like, I'm going to drive this car straight into your healing. Yeah. Like I was like, yeah, I'm going to make you better. Right. I'm going to anoint you every morning, every night. I was like, like, like, like, I mean, do that, but yeah. We're going to knock this out in a week. Yeah, totally. Because I don't got time to deal with this crap, you know? And so I was reading and I was really trying to, you know, for the first time of my life, like, study and understand what is healing about and all that.

And when I saw that, I was like, that's a monkey wrench. Yeah. Because now we're dealing with a heart issue that we can't just, you know, jump through some hoops. Right. Like we actually have to, like, deal with the heart. And that's why, like, Revelation 10, 9, talking about the. process of salvation for you have to confess with your mouth but believe in your heart and the hardest the hardest part because you can't trick God on that. You can trick other people. You can say

whatever you want. Preach. But your heart, right? So the same thing with forgiveness. It's like, I think I have unforgiveness in my life for me personally. And this is when I was trying to drive Lindsay's healing. Right. And I was like, I, and I don't know how to truly forgive some people. Yeah. It was tough. Yeah. Did you walk through that? Oh yeah. Yeah. I feel like I'm walking. a lot lighter these days for that stuff. Praise the Lord, because it's heavy, man. The peace of God has been huge. Yeah.

And the Lord gave me a vision. You know, I share about this in my book, and I've shared about it on social media is like I was going through my divorce, getting out of my abusive marriage, and I prayed for that man for years. Like, I mean, I don't even know how many hours lined up it would be that I was like praying for repentance, salvation, deliver, like all that stuff. And just for his freedom and for us to have like a healthy marriage, right? And I had gone through deliverance and we had gotten married, actually.

It was after a couple of my deliverances, which wasn't the will of God, but I have my son now and I love my son, you know, so I'm blessed because of that. But I was so serious about staying in a place of forgiveness no matter what. And when you're with a repeat offender, that's hard to do, you know? And so, but I had been delivered of a spirit of unforgiveness. And what happened when I got delivered, side note from that spirit is I was no longer tormented day in and day out. thinking about all the things that had been done to me and like how many people had hurt me. I thought about it all day, every day. Oh, that person did that to me and this is what they said to me and this is how it made me feel like that was like the inner dialogue in my mind 24-7. And so when I got

delivered, that stopped, right? You know you've been delivered by the quietness of your mind and the fruit of your life. Whatever spin, those spinning thoughts that we get, they reveal what spirit is usually tormenting a person, right? And so I'm going through my divorce, put a protective order out, you know, and me and my son are being protected, but it hurt, man, like going through all of that stuff and abusive marriages and abuse in the church can be really weird. And people say a lot of things that are not biblical and give a lot of advice that is, like, not educated on domestic violence or child abuse, what have you. And, but I remember driving one day. And again, I had already forgiven him. And I stayed in a place of forgiveness since deliverance.

But I was driving one day and I get this vision, this image. my mind, the Lord shows me this human fleshy heart and it has all of these fish hooks in it, right? Like, I don't know, 20, 30, 40, 50. Like, that's gnarly, like pierced up. And then fishing line connected to each fish hook. If you were to see that in the natural, we had like a human heart here. Like, that's, I know, it's brutal. It's a brutal imagery. Right. But like, on all that fishing line pulling those fish hooks, the Lord said, that is a heart in unforgiveness. And the Lord does not take those fish hooks out of your heart. You can pray for help, but it is an act of like God's will when we choose to forgive. He can't make you forgive. When people say,

I'm working on unforgiveness, no, you're not. You just do it. You just do it. You think that you're going to feel better immediately. That's not always the case. But I'm going to say, I forgive Tony for X, Y, and Z, right? Take that fish hook out of my heart. Right. And then afterwards, if you take all those hooks out of your heart, forgive all those people, what's left? Wounds. some of those wounds are deeper than others. If that fish shook has been there since childhood, that thing might be infected. You know what I mean? And you might need inner healing and obviously deliverance and things like that. But then the Holy Spirit comes in and heals betrayal, heals that confusion, that fear, that anger, that anxiety, whatever it is. Like he heals all of that.

But we have to make the decision to forgive. And so for me, if somebody pisses me off while I'm driving and I'm thinking about it two days later, I'm like, uh-oh, that's not good for me. Lord, I forgive that person. I had one man, this was, I think it was before a big event that the Lord was calling me to. This dude was following me and my son on whatever, the freeway and just honking at me, I was like, what is this guy's problem? Like, what is going on? And it was intimidating me. Like, it was scary. And because he kept following me for a while. I was like, I don't even know who you are. Like, what's wrong? If I cut you off, I'm really sorry. You know. But he obviously had anger. And, you know, I was agitated in the moment. And then afterwards, when I got

away from him, I'm just like, Lord, bless that man, like help that man, deliver that man, whatever. And I don't, I do not let unforgiveness take place in my life at all. Like, I'm so serious about that, probably more than anything else. Because I was tormented by that spirit for so long. And after I got delivered of it in that first deliverance session, like I said, my mind was like quiet. For the first time in my life. I'd done EMDR trauma therapy for three years. I'm like a product of therapy. 13 years of therapy. Every 12-step program under the sun, like mentorship, I would do whatever. Anybody said if it meant that I could be healed, right? Mentally, physically, whatever. And but nothing quieted my mind until I got delivered of that spirit. Because where there's torment, there's a demon, you know?

And two weeks after, I got delivered of that spirit of unforgiveness. I was in my backyard in California, you know, in this like cute little condo, really cute backyard. flowers, sunny day. Nothing's wrong, right? Watering my plans, do-to-do. And then this thought comes to my mind, remember when so-and-so did that? Remember when they said that to you? Yeah. Didn't, don't you think he's actually cheating on you? Don't you think this? Don't you think that? Remember when your mom said this and your dad said that and this? And so I went from feeling fine to now I'm anxious. Now I'm angry. Now I'm jealous. Now I'm avoidant. Now I want to call you and chew you out. and I want to block your number because screw you.

And I'm going into this. And those thoughts create a physical sensation in your body, right? If you think about like fearful things, you're going to feel that fear in your body. If you think about things that make you anger, you're going to feel it in your body. So that was happening to me in that moment, right? And the Holy Spirit interrupts my thought. And he says, Jenny, this is not coming from me and this is not coming from you. This is a familiar spirit of unforgiveness.

Do not follow where. is leading. And then boom, Philippians 4-8 went into my mind. Whatever is lovely, think about such things. Okay. I didn't know what a familiar spirit was at that time, biblically, right? The Bible talks about that. I didn't know, but I was like, familiar. It's been with me for a long time. Look at my family line, bro. Unforgiveness galore, you know? And so I was like, okay, whatever's lovely, think about such things. There's roses in front of me. I'm just going to think about the details of a rose. And boom, just changed my thinking, right? Take every thought. Like I took my thought captive. The Lord helped me because I didn't know.

Took it captive. All those feelings went away. I didn't come into agreement with that spirit. One week later, I'm walking into my job. I worked in mental health at a trauma center. I'm walking in normal morning. Remember when so and so did that? Remember when they did this and said that and this? And I was like, da, out loud. I don't care if I look crazy. I was like, I rebuke the spirit of unforgiveness in Jesus name, walking through the parking garage. And went away immediately. And so whenever I have a thought about somebody, that's repetitive, that is negative. That's not the Lord. The Lord will tell me straight up like, oh, you're operating in this, you're operating in

that, and he'll protect me. You know, he'll let me know what's up. But he's not going to cause me to think all these negative things about you that is going to create fear and anxiety and anger in me. You know what I'm saying? So earlier you mentioned about, I can't remember exactly what it was, but you said how, or was it the spirit of anger that you felt like it was part of you and sad? Yes.

Like, so with the different deliverances that you've gone through, have you ever experienced any emotional ties like that, but not maybe sadness or like, because I get the sense that if something's part of somebody for so long in their entire life. Yeah. You don't have, you have like no identity outside of it. Right. It may not even be sadness as much as like fear of not knowing what's on the other side of that veil. because it's just like, this thing has been part of me for so long. I don't know who I am without it. And it's like a scary thing to even consider. Did you go through that as well? I think for me, like the sexual stuff was so big because I started getting sexually abuse at the age of three.

Wow. So that's like, that was a first open door in my life before witchcraft entered in at seven. Like that was the first open door. And so, you know, I'm a seven-time sexual assault survivor. That's a lot of like perpetrators. You know, and then on top of that, there's the promiscuity that came out of that because that's like what became my identity. The perversion. I was, you know, involved in the sex industry, nude modeling, all this type of stuff for so long. So that was like, and I'm an artist too. So I made this, there was this identity of, oh, I'm an artist and I'm just a creative and that's why X, Y, and Z is okay.

And it's like, no, I was in total bondage, but I was calling it freedom, you know. And so when I got delivered of these sexual spirits, there were certain things that were, no-brainers for me, get rid of, stop that, you know, throw these outfits away, these things away. But there was still a part of me that, how do I say it, felt maybe I was mourning in a way because I had never known what it was like to not dress like that. Like I didn't know how to actually be creative in the things that I wore without being provocative. So that was something that the Lord had to take me through. Am I making sense?

Does that make sense? So there were parts of me that I thought were me, my whole life. And it was really just a spirit that was operating. Yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned about the sex industry. Yeah. I have talked about this in the past.

And I know other people have as well. But for me, in my perspective, it's just it's what I hear. I don't have any proof of it. But have you ever heard of or even experienced, like literal demonic manifestation within that industry when people are being abused and stuff. Oh, yeah. I mean, when you said that, I just immediately thought back to, I'd already gotten sober, because that's a big part of my story too, is like addiction and all that stuff. So I have 12 years sober now. Yeah, exactly. It just makes sense that that's like the avenue. It's like,

I went through all that sober. What? Yeah. That would be crazy, you know. So that was just one of the things to try to necessize my pain, right? And was, an easy access point for the enemy in my life. Because I did grow up in a dysfunctional alcoholic home and things like that too. So that was just like how you deal with your problems, you know? But when I was in the industry, I had gotten sober and sobriety didn't change that for me. In fact, I think once I got sober, it kind of pushed me more into like sex and love addiction and the sex industry because I could no longer have my identity in drugs and alcohol. So it was like I had to cover up my pain and some other type of twisted way, my identity, whatever. And so there was one time that I was,

whatever, doing a modeling thing, and I got assaulted. And it was really weird because, without going into too much detail, he was an artist and things like that. And I remember I kept falling asleep, like sitting up. I was not on drugs or anything like that. And I kept like falling asleep. And I was like, what is going on? And I felt like a spell was put on me. And I felt like a spell was put on me. Now, I'm living in sin, right? So a spell could be put on me and it could work, right? Like, the Bible says that a curse cannot land without a cause, but if you have a cause, even if you're a Christian, that curse can enter in. So people, I just side note, well, there's this like false teaching that circulates the internet. Oh, Christian can't be cursed. Yeah, bro, if you are living in

sin, that is an open door. So if somebody sends a curse, it comes in through your open door. Like, that's just the reality of it. And so there was, I felt like a spell was put on me. And then I was, assaulted. And he had really, his home was a, he was a millionaire, it was a huge mansion. He had like a sex room and like chains hanging from the ceiling and his bed. The fact that I even went into this place, like alone, and this was somebody I met off the internet for like an art project, was insane. And I almost got R-worded that day. And I actually can't believe that I did not. Like other things happened, but that did not. And I remember in that moment, moment, this is like heavy stuff, you know, but I don't usually talk about it. But in that moment,

I remember just mentally preparing for that to happen and just being like, okay, what can I focus on in this room to like distract me from what's about to happen? Like, it was super dark, super gnarly. And that man, 100% was doing witchcraft and I believe Satanism. Like, you know, well, there's different. There's Luciferianism. There's Satanism. There's devil worship. They're like all a little bit different. They're all rooted in evil, right? But I remember he had these shelves and they looked like potions and I was like, why does he have that? You know, but by the grace of God, I got up and I was like, I need to go. And I actually was able to leave his house. That's how it ended, huh? Yes. Wow. It was literally the grace of God. And I was

at that point in time, I was sober and I was working through trauma therapy. So I was working through all the childhood sexual abuse stuff. And then this happened and my therapist was like, no more, like going to people's houses, you know, but I had been in this people's houses, you don't know, not good, but I had lived in this high risk lifestyle for so long that that actually felt like baseline and normal to me, you know, that cortisol being super high, the stress hormone, like that was, I was addicted to the stress hormone. So to kind of in a roundabout way, answer your question, did I see your experience stuff like that in a sex industry? Yeah. It's all over. Yeah. And sexuality and witchcraft are like weirdly ameshed. Like I was part of

an underground witchcraft temple and they would do these full moon ceremonies. I actually never went to one, which is crazy that I didn't. Again, probably a god cushion there because I was involved in a lot of stuff with that temple. But they would do, it was a women's only temple, which I loved because I'd been so abused. So are we talking like, it's like a coven? Or would you say temple? You mean like a physical temple or what? So it was an underground like witchcraft temple. So it was in an industrial area. So if you were driving past, you would have no clue. But if you walk in, I mean, I mean, it was, again, I talk about this in my book in detail. It was gorgeous, but it looked like just an industrial area. But you walk in and there are three rooms that you have to go through before you could go to the main, what's the room that I would, what would I call it? I can't think of the word right now. But you basically go through the front door. They put like a bindy, which is a jewel on your third eye. They speak an affirmation over you. And you go into the first room and there's this gorgeous gold fountain like elixirs all over the walls, teas, herbs, like all the witchcrafts. stuff and you're in that room and then you go into the second room. The second room is where you

eat and you're with community and there's, you know, things hanging from the ceiling, drapes and curtains and pillows everywhere and it looks really inviting and comforting. And then you go into the third space, which is like the main temple. And there's just witchcraft idolatry everywhere. So there's idols all around the entire room. There's a huge Egyptian statue. And there's a huge Egyptian statue that you, when they receive an offering, like that's what you do is you worship this God

and you like donate your money to the temple. And so there's four high priestesses that run it. And yeah, so that was the witchcraft temple that I was a part of. And you're under the authority

of the high priestesses and you can become a member and all that stuff. And so they would have all these outside events too. Like, oh, we have a full moon ceremony and we're going to meet here. And you would literally,

I didn't do this one, but you would literally dance like naked under the, under the full moon. Like, if you were to Google, like, ancient witchcraft, that's like an image that would come up, like in a storybook. You know what I'm saying? But that's what these women are doing.

And I just think there's such this huge connected piece with sexuality and witchcraft. Like so many people that I walk through deliverance, they've done sex magic and they didn't know that it was bad. Or they're like, oh, I'm trying to heal my womb by doing these like yoni, like rituals. And I was like, that is literal witchcraft. Like, you are doing actual witchcraft and you're putting curses on your womb when you're just trying to get pregnant. like not good. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. Alster Crowley was really heavy into sex magic. Ugh. And it said that he didn't even have sex for pleasure. He disdained people who had sex for pleasure. If there wasn't a purpose behind it, he didn't see a reason to do it to the point that he would have sex with anything. Any person, any man, woman, doesn't matter.

Gross. There was a desired result out of it. Sex magic is super real. Yeah. The cartel is heavily involved in something. magic when it comes to the human trafficking, it is insane. What they do with these kids now is their tactics have changed now where when you save a child, a lot of them have the same story. What they do to brainwash the kids to get them under their control is wherever

they're storing them, whatever house it is, every room has pornography playing 24-7. Dude. Children are forced to watch pornography 24-7 because it's, that spiritual. It's a brainwashing. It's a desensitizing. Yes. Whoa. And so it's, it's horrible. Yeah, it's 100% horrible. So, yeah, industry bad. Yes. To stay out. Let's talk about how you got involved in witchcraft. Yeah. Because it seems like the trauma starts young. Yes. Witchcraft obviously didn't start at age three, but the trauma probably opened a door for that to take hold in your life. I just, I'm interested to hear how that all started for you. Yeah. And as you're saying that, I was just like kind of remembering, you know, I went through a trauma center when I was

four years sober. So I'd gotten, went to a rehab facility, got sober that way, you know, had my sober time and all the trauma started coming up once I got sober. And I was obviously tormented and needed deliverance. I needed Jesus and all that stuff. But I was at this trauma center at four you're sober and we had to do a project, like a trauma timeline. And you could do an actual timeline or you could do what they called a trauma egg where you like draw a huge egg and like the cracks. Is this a little crack? Is this a big crack? Like whatever. And part of my testimony is, you know, I had an encounter with a demon when I was 12 or 13 years old. I had a curse put on me then. And so I would openly talk about that because it was traumatizing for me. So whether a therapist believed it or not,

I was like, listen, there were other people there. Other people witness it. I'm not schizophrenic. You know what I'm saying? But this was a trauma. And so I was a trauma. And so I'd always share that when I would do my trauma timeline with a therapist or in a group. And I remember putting on there, you know, I was like, and this thing happened to me when I was 12. I'm sharing it with the trauma group. And I was like, this thing happened to me when I was 12. And it was, it was demonic. And there was one of the therapists in there.

I assume that she's a Christian because when you're in mental health, you can't really openly say like what you believe because there's just challenges there. And I was like, yeah, it was so, it was a demonic thing. And she said to me, she said, don't you think the. demonic stuff started at three when I was abused. And I didn't know what I know now, but absolutely. So obviously, that was the first open door. But anytime that you see children that are exposed or participating in witchcraft young, what that tells me immediately is there are occult generational spirits in their family line. Like if a child is introduced to witchcraft at four, whatever type it is, and they're doing that or at 10 or whatever, the enemy obviously wants to come for children, right,

so that he can warp their entire lives and keep them from God. But usually that points to there's a generational spirit of witchcraft, which was in my family line. Do you see, I don't want to be real, but do you see that a lot with children getting involved with witchcraft at a young age? I wouldn't say that I see it a lot, but a lot of the adults that I do deliverance with, they'll be like, oh, yeah, you know, when I was eight, I did this. Or my mom took me to a brew hot and they washed me in herbs, and I'm like, dude. Okay.

Yeah, or like my mom put this bracelet on me when I was four and she got it from the psychic meeting. You know what I mean? So there's things like that, but it's typically generational when the children are so young. And so when I was seven years old, I was invited to my friend's house. She lived a street over. She invited me and another friend at like, whatever, 10 in the morning on a weekend and was like, I got a new game.

Come over. So my mom lets me go over to their house and we get there. And she's like, we have to turn off all the lights and close the blinds. And so it's crazy. I was talking to Ezekiel about this actually, is there's, and I'm sure that you could think of this even as a child, it's like, even when you don't have the Holy Spirit yet, you have discernment and you intuitively know, this is maybe not a good idea or this is bad, right? And so I was seven years old, invited over, she turns off the lights, closes the blinds, and I'm thinking, this is not good. This game is not a good game. And she pulls out a Ouija board. And she begins to play and teaches how to do it. And her and the other girl, they can't really get the paddle, you know, to move. And they're like, Jenny, you try. And so I ask it a question and I get an answer immediately. And I was like, whoa, I didn't even move that. So all before the age of seven, there's all this abuse happening, right?

There's a dysfunctional alcoholic family. It was taking care of my dad and his alcoholism at the age of three. You know, so there's that too. So there's this brokenness. There's this powerlessness that's already very much a part of my life. There's fear. There's anxiety. And so at seven, then I'm introduced to something that shows me that there's power and control.

in this. And so I do this. I communicate with my first demonic spirit that day. I saw it. I heard it. And I left there not feeling great, but I was like, oh, like there's power to this thing. You know, and I wasn't raised in a Christian family, but my grandma was a Christian. That was a praying woman. She's passed now. But like, God knew what he was doing by having me be born into this family and have that woman, like praying for me. Like, I literally would probably be dead if it wasn't for that woman. So when I started self-harming at the age of 11, I wasn't going to my parents. I was telling my grandma. When things were happening or I was ashamed, not the sexual abuse, because I kept that secret until I was like 25 and going through therapy. But she was just that sense of security for me

that I didn't have anywhere else. So I don't have a secure attachment with my mom or my dad, but I would go to my grandma's house and it was quiet and it was peaceful and a candle is always lit and a Bible is out and TVs and radios are not blasting everywhere. Drunk people aren't in the garage, you know what I mean? And it was just the Holy Spirit, the presence of God was there. And so, yeah, seven years old, that happens. And I walk away from that. I was kind of in between two worlds.

There's this world of witchcraft, which showed me immediate power. And then there's Christianity, which I'm just seeing as a Methodist church, and you just go on Sundays and you sit down, and you stand up and you read a couple words and, you know, Sunday school's kind of boring. And so I was kind of in this, at this crossroads, I guess, at that age. And so, you know, the abuse continues to happen through the age of eight. I get abused again by somebody else at the age of nine. And then when it came to middle school, yeah, I was 11 years old and I started self-harming. So I was just very demonized by the time I was in middle school, you know. And yeah. Did you have a question?

No, no. No, no. No, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. So you were demonized by the time you were in middle school. Yeah. The witchcraft started at the Ouija board. Yes. And is that where everything just kind of like started moving forward where it's like you wanted to get deeper or deeper into it or what? Because I talked to. Right. I talked to a witch years ago. And he was studying to be in the ministry. And he thought it would be good to study the occult to know his enemy. And he wound up becoming a witch. And he said to me that it was a progression for him where he started off on softer stuff like Wicca. And he said he needed harder and harder stuff to the point that like he didn't, he didn't say this publicly, but he told me that he was a city bus driver. And he would practice casting spells on people riding the bus.

And like the guy like he like he was involved in some pretty dark stuff. And so like was it a progression for you? Oh, yes. I'm assuming you didn't just stop at the Ouija board. Like, that's it. No, no, definitely not. And obviously getting involved in an underground witchcraft temple where you're like, they're doing group possessions.

That's pretty much, you know. Group possessions. Yeah. So what would happen? You want me to go there? Yeah, please. Yeah. I was like in the temple, right?

I feel like we're tapping into my ADHD right now. It's okay. Me too. We're going to go all over place. Me too. I'm like, we're just going to create a bunch of different avenues and get back. Yeah. So, yeah, the temple, like I said, you go into the third room.

And once you're in the third room, all the people come in and it's women, you could invite like a boyfriend or a husband once a month or a child once a month. So it was always women. And again, I liked that because I had been abused by men and yada, yada, yada. And so then they close the door and then you do a magic circle around a pentagram. Now, it's not a pentagram that's drawn and chalk on a brick floor. A pentagram, there's five points to it, right? So those are the elements of the earth. And so, and then the fifth one is the spirit. So you're activating all of these points of the pentagram in this magic circle and you close the magic circle by saying a spell. And once the magic circle is closed,

you can't leave unless it's an absolute emergency. Like, you can't leave because it breaks the ritual magic. You know what I'm saying? And so when you get to the fifth point of the pentagram, which is the spirit, you start calling in your spirit guides, your ancestors, your dead cat, if you will, like whatever. You're calling in all these different things. And I remember feeling, it's so weird when you're in witchcraft, because there's a tiny, at least for me, there's like a tiny part that knew, this is actually weird. Like, this is, this is not right, but it's like so seductive and so alluring that you're like, but I want it. You know what I'm saying? And yeah, and so you start inviting in all these spirits and some of the women are like howling,

they're falling to the ground, their bodies shaking, like you're seeing things out of the corner of your eye, like shadows, you feel heat, you feel chill, all that stuff. So you're literally in a group possession. That's what is happening. in that moment. And then, you know, we create the magic circle and then we have our service, if you will, our Sunday service. And then at the end, you break, you know, the magic circle and you can leave and go into the other rooms. And so that happened every single Sunday. And I loved it. I loved it because I'd operated in, I had a cult gifting growing up as a child, right? And so a cult gifting is not from the Lord, you know, if I don't have the Holy Spirit and I'm like talking to spirits

and seeing spirits all the time, that is 100% necromancy. Like, that's, that's demonic, that's occult gifting. And so that's what I was operating in. And so I grew up encountering spirits and seeing things and going to psychics and all that stuff. And my normal friends were like, this is weird, you know, like I didn't like fit in with the majority of society in that way. So then I find this underground witchcraft temple and we're worshipping all these goddesses and have all these idols and setting up these altars in our home and summoning spirits into our bodies. and I was like, oh, like, this is where I fit in, right? Because I had that wound of rejection.

I had that abuse from men. So I'm going to women. Like, the enemy was playing on my wounds big time, which is what he does. He does that even when you're a Holy Spirit-filled Christian, if there's still wounds, like, he's going to play on that, you know? We're not special, like, that we have, like special callings or anything like that. He hates every single human person, whether they're a Christian or not, whether they're filled with the Holy Spirit or not, because they're created in God's image.

You know what I'm saying? So I just want to say. that because I do hear like Christians almost like glorify themselves or their testimonies and things like that. And it's like devil comes for everyone, bro. Like we're not, you're not special because he came for you really hard this week. And you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And so where was I with all that? We were talking about the temple. Yeah. Wischcraft. You said like, oh, was it a progression? Yeah, that's what I was. Yeah. So it happened at seven. Yeah. Good job. Thank you, Lord. Yeah. So seven, I'm introduced, right? And then I'm kind of in this like pull between.

the two, there's Christianity, which is like what my grandma is, you know, obviously she believes in Jesus and she's following that. And then my dad would, he was raised in the church. So he'd kind of go, but he's an alcoholic and he's living a certain type of lifestyle. And, you know, it's like pornography in the bathroom and there's like naked women all plastered all over the garage. And that was normal to me growing up. And then I would go to people's houses. And I was like, why don't their dads have that? And I didn't think anything of that. I was like, oh, that girl's like really prettier. I want to look like that. Which is really interesting. that like I ended up doing nude modeling for over 10 years when it's like I was looking at

Playboy when I was four being like, I want to look like that. I want to be like that. You know, like it's, it enters in that spirit, you know, so young. And there's so many children, like, just side note, like men that I do deliverance with, so many of them are introduced to pornography. So young, dude. Like seven years old and they find a box of Maxim or Playboy or their uncle shows them pornography at the age. That's weird. Yeah. That's really weird. That's more than weird. It's pedophilia. Yeah. It's creepy. Pedophilic. Yeah. And, yeah, just not good. And so that's kind of like the environment that I grew up in, right? And so seven years old, that happens. And then about 12 years old, actually I think I was 13, 12 or 13. I'm in the eighth grade. And I don't want to

get lost in the story because it's like a lot and it's intense. But, you know, I had a curse put on me by a woman. And I didn't know at the time. You don't always... How old were you? I was 13. Yeah, eighth grade. Yeah. And again, a curse cannot land without a cause, right?

So it was able to come upon my life. I wasn't necessarily living in sin, but I wasn't covered. I wasn't in a Christian home. I wasn't covered by the Holy Spirit at that point in time, right? And so I had this... That's huge. What? I'm not trying to do really, but just what you just said, because I know just hearing you

you talk, you know, off air and stuff about your son. And, you know, I see you on. online talking about how much you love your son and how much you protect him spiritually. It's this, what you're about to say, what you're talking about. Yeah. This is exactly why. Like, as parents, we need to be taking charge over the spiritual environment of our household. We need to pray of protection over our children, over the house. Because if we don't, it's a wide open door for this stuff to happen. Dude, and the first thing that the enemy is going to come for is your kids. Like, I talk about this all the time. And I will, like, talk about it until I'm exhausted.

to be honest, because it's so, it's that serious. Your kids are your vulnerability. Yes, bro. And if you're in sin doing this, even if you're like, oh, it's only affecting me and like my wife doesn't know and my kids don't know, the devil knows. And he's like, bingo, access point. Like, I want to destroy everything about your life. Like the enemy wants to do that, right? And so, um, he's going to look for an access point, whatever that is. And, and yeah, just side note, I was watching, um, I don't watch like any TV shows. I would love to, bro. I would love to. do yeah i was like i try i try i'm like oh emily and paris everybody loves it i was like i can't do that and fast forward and the lord's like no no and i'm like okay i'll try this show because everybody watches

this show and i know a lot of christians who like the show the lord's like no no so i don't watch hardly anything i watch movies and i know which ones are safe you know what i'm saying and i'm not like a weird religious well i am a little bit weird but i'm not like a religious crazy person but i know what's up and when I have watched certain shows or movies, I'll get demonically attacked. And I'm like, well, that's what I get. Yeah, you recognize danger. Yeah. You stay away from it. Yeah. Yeah. Simple like that. And but I recently, I was watching Love on the Spectrum, which is actually a cute show, and it's decently wholesome. And there's not really bad stuff in there. And there was this one episode recently. And my son will, I'll have it on sometimes with him around. It's not, it's usually okay.

And there was the scene where they were like kissing. And it was kind of going on, little bit long. And my son was like, what are they doing? And I immediately was like so convicted of just like, did I just violate his innocence by letting him see this? And it's not bad if like a boyfriend and a girlfriend or husband and wife kiss. That's not evil. But it was not good for him to see that. And there's so much perversion on my side of the family. And then his dad, who's not in our life, honestly, by the grace of God, but there's a ton of sexual perversion. So that's coming heavy from both sides. So I have to so safeguard my son. So in that moment, I turned it off. I said, oh, they're being silly. I was like, we shouldn't watch that. And I just repented to the Lord.

And I prayed over my son. I was like, whatever, like tried to violate his consciousness there, Lord, remove it in Jesus name, you know. And for me, it is that serious. It is that serious because I was so tormented by so many things. The last thing I want is my son to be in his 20s and going to strip clubs or sleeping around or watching porn, you know? Like, I pray really hard. against that. And so, yeah, so 12 years old, I had this fear, 12, 13, I was 13, because it was in the eighth grade and I was going to go into the ninth grade. I had this fear of spending the night. Like, I would go and try to spend the night at a friend's house and they always had to call my mom, come pick me up. And that was probably a result of the trauma that I had been through, right?

And I didn't know at that time because I had blocked stuff out. That's part of dissociative identity disorder, by the way. You're dissociating. There's dissociative amnesia. You're not remembering chunks and years of your life. So whenever I meet with people who have blackouts of time in their life. I mean, especially if they're not doing drugs or whatever at that time, there's trauma there and there's a demonic thing happening. That's what that tells me. If there's blackouts in time, that's not normal, you know? Do you, I don't want to derail It's okay. It's just part of it. Just remember your thought. But with what you just said, do you, when you're doing deliverance with people and they have the blocks of time blacked out,

do you see a reversal of that where like there's demonic oppression that that's causing that is taken out and they start getting memories back? To be honest, no, I haven't really seen that. I'm trying to think even with my own experience. The Lord has let me remember certain things like, oh, this was like a really fun time at your birthday when you were eight. So I don't even have most of my memories back from like before 10. have some, but the Lord has, there's certain things that I feel like God has walked me through to

heal that, right? Like if I don't have all those memories. And to be honest, I'm kind of thankful that I don't have all those memories because it's a ton of abuse. I don't want to remember all that. I was doing that for three years in trauma therapy and it was exhausting and it was tormenting, even though I had to like work through that stuff because if I'm not going to get honest about what happened to me, I'm not going to enter healing and be able to help other people, right? Which is where the Lord has me now.

but I something that I do now is like what did I miss out on as a child? Like what makes me happy or like if I was a kid, what would I have loved? Well, I really liked Bratstalls, but I didn't really get them. So I bought myself a Bratstall. So silly things like that, you know what I mean? But with the Lord. And so I haven't really seen people get a bunch of memories back. But that doesn't mean that that doesn't happen with people, you know.

So, so yeah, 12 years old, I'm afraid to spend the night. And 13, I keep saying 12, it's 13, afraid to spend the night. And I was part of this like group on campus, this club, and they were going to do like an overnight camping trip. Well, first of all, I don't like camping, but it was like in a cabin. So I was like, okay, like, I'll do it. And a lot of my abuse also happened in the cabin. So this was just like not a great setup for me. But I was like, I really don't want to go into high school and be that girl and like be humiliated because I'm afraid to spend the night. And my mom is always saying like, oh, no, she can't spend the night. Like, I didn't want to do that. I was like, I know.

need to just get over this. And so I sign up to go on this trip. It's seven hours from home. It's literally a scary movie set up. It's a cabin in the woods, nothing around for miles. And this Native American woman is like renting this two-story cabin out to children. Like, I don't know. Like it sounds... The kids? Yes. I mean, we're eighth graders, right? There's a chaperone. There was like one teacher or two teachers. And so whatever. I don't know what she was up to, but this is the woman that put a curse on me. So she was up to something, right? And so we... get there and I immediately felt like this is not good. Like I should not be here. This is not good.

And I had, I would say, like, I was hyper vigilant because of all the trauma I'd been through. So like that was already turned, that volume was already turned up way higher than my peers. Like I was just a lot more sensitive. I was a cool girl, but I was more sensitive to atmospheres and things like that. And part of that I think is God's call in my life too, right? So we walk into the cabin and it's the second floor. And I remember just like scanning the kitchen area and it's like a granite countertop. I was like traumatized by granite countertops after this. I was like, I never want to see another granite countertop. The house I live in now has a granite countertops. So the Lord's healed me. You know, delivered me. Yeah. It's not like a trigger. Like, oh no, a demon because there's a granite

countertop. But see, the enemy will play on anything, you know? And I remember just like scanning the kitchen. and I heard in this, like, demonic voice, get the F out. Wow. And it was like, I never heard anything like that. And I was like, what the heck? I, like, look around. And I was immediately filled with fear. And I was like, dang, I have to stick this out.

I can't call my mom. Can't drive seven hours home. We're on a bus. Like, that's not going to happen. So I have to stick it out. And, you know, it's the evening time now. They're by the campfire. Everybody's telling ghost stories.

And I'm like this. I'm like, no, because this is real. This is my life. You know, so I'm covering my ears. People are making fun of me. I'm literally like being bullied. And I was just like, whatever. Like, I don't care. I don't want to hear it. We go now into the cabin and she says, oh, there's this ghost that shows up in this window sometimes if you guys come out and you see that. And this happens. If you hear things or see things, don't worry. And I'm over here like, I'm worried. I'm worried because I can't leave. I'm trapped here now in this cabin in the woods. And it's a scary movie. And it's my life. And so We go to bed and the boys, because there were guys and girls, right? So the boys are on the first floor and they're on their bunk beds and they're just kind of like banging on the ceiling, making a ruck, it's just being boys, whatever. They're told to stop. Everybody goes to sleep. And I asked the lady, you know, she's saying good night to everybody. And I was like, hey, do you have like a nightlight or a flashlight or something? And she was like, no. I was like, why is she so mad? Like, why do I feel like she hates me? Whatever, brush it off. We fall asleep and there's five of us in the room, two bunk beds on this side and this side. And then my friend Brie is.

like sleeping on the floor. And I fall asleep. And I think our door was closed originally. But I wake up and our doors like cracked open like halfway. And I was like, that's weird. Like maybe, you know, somebody went to the bathroom, like whatever. And it's cracked open. And I felt just the presence of something, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Right. And I was just like, okay, that's weird. Whatever. I'm just afraid. I'm just nervous. Fall back asleep. I wake up to that pounding. Right. The boys are like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. But it's not. coming from under, it's coming from all around the bedroom. So the bedroom is, we're on the second floor, nothing on this side, nothing on this side, hallway right here. The door is cracked open,

and then there's another bedroom here. So there's, the pounding is going all the way around the room. That's actually humanly impossible unless you have a team of people on ladders, which is not what was happening, and there was nobody in the hallway. And the girls in this room were asleep. And so the pounding is going literally behind my head. And this goes on, all night long. So you're the only one that hears it? Well, no, because Bree, my friend, and I, like, kicked the girl on the bed above me. I'm like, wake up, wake up.

I'm like calling for this girl. Wake up. Nobody's waking up. I was like, what is going on here, right? That they were like out. Yeah. Out. And some people are heavy sleepers.

I definitely was not, you know. And then my friend Bree, she was my close friend, too. She wakes up and she goes, Jenny, do you hear that? I was like, yes, dude, it has been happening all night. She's like, want me to come up on the bed? And I was like, yes. Like, I'm afraid. I'm in a sleeping bag. I hate sleeping bags. I'm here with my like teddy bear shaking, wearing a cross necklace that I got, you know, thinking that this cross necklace is going to protect me from evil because I don't know what I think at that point in time. So she comes up on the bed with me. We fall asleep. It again happens all night long. And it's not just like bang, bang, bang, bang. It's like loud.

Like, if I were to bang super hard on this wall, that's how loud it would get. And behind your head, like, That's scary. You know what I mean? So that's happening on and off all night long. The bedroom doors cracked open, fall asleep. I don't know if you've ever like encountered like a demonic spirit. Yes, you have. Okay. I was like, I figured you talk about this stuff so you probably have or like being in a house where it's like haunted or a cursed place, whatever. And there's always this feeling right before you encounter it or before something happens. It's like this eerie stillness. And so I wake up again and I felt that like eerie stillness. And I heard the back door open and close, a screen door open and close, something going, I didn't hear footsteps, something going to the bathroom. The bathroom light goes on and off,

on and off. And then I hear the mirror cabinet, and then slam shut. And I was like, what is going on with my life right now? Right. And fall back asleep, wake up, think I see something on the side of the bunk bed, fall back asleep. Wake up again. It's that eerie stillness. and I'm facing this girl's bed. And I see something over on her bed. And I don't want to go into describing it because I don't know if that's necessary, but it was a demonic spirit. It was evil.

To the day, I've never seen anything like that. I've definitely seen multiple demons. But it had... When you saw it, because I know you don't want to go into detail, but... Yeah. I mean, I can if you want. Did it appear physical? Yes.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, some of these details might be good because I think often people, think about the demonic as a word I've been using a lot, wispy. And they think that a demon is some kind of thing that goes through walls. It's not material. It's not physical. But though that can be true, the opposite can be true to it. It can be very physical. It can manifest extremely physical. Yes. So there's different types. Yeah. So this one was more opaque, actually. So I actually could see through it like you would think like a ghost.

You know, but it was a demon. And it had a very large head, not a normal human head shape, but it was very large. And it was perched up on its elbow looking at me smiling. So I had a huge evil smile and like eyes that were, I mean, the best way I can describe it is like eyes that went nowhere. So like if me and you, gross, but if we had like our eyeballs taken out of our head, like there's an end space. do you know what I'm saying like your socket right this doesn't have that it's like endless darkness I don't know how to explain it other than that and so it's sitting up and part of its body it only had like half a body and then it kind of like faded out so it was kind of like what you're

saying like wispy if you will but it kind of like faded out and it was perched upon its elbow staring at me smiling and I remember in that moment feeling almost like this drunk feeling and here's the thing that I don't know, maybe you talk about this on your podcast, is that when you are in the presence of witchcraft, whether it's a person operating in witchcraft, you go into a building and there's witchcraft happening there that has happened there, where you're in the presence of an actual demonic spirit, is witchcraft makes you feel dizzy, makes you feel confused. It can give you an immediate headache. You know what I mean? And so this drunk type feeling, I've gone to, as a Christian, gone to evangelize at like black magic, like a witch festival in Austin, Texas. And I remember feeling that feeling when I came up to one booth and I could not enter the booth. And then once I left the event, I was like, oh my gosh, that woman had done magic around her booth. And I couldn't enter in. You know, now if I were to go back, I'd be like, I'm going in. You know what I mean?

Evangelized to that lady. But hindsight's 2020. And so in that moment, at 13 years old, yeah, I felt this like drunk type feeling. I see this thing. And I kind of just was like, what is that? what it was terrifying, but I didn't know what it was. I fall back to sleep. My friend that's sleeping next me wakes me up. And she goes, Jenny, look over on so-and-so's bed. I said, why? She goes, he's looking at us. I already knew that it was a he or appeared that way. And I knew that he was

looking at us because he was perched up on his elbow staring at me before. And she says, he's looking at us. And I say, is he perched? And I'm not, I'm not going to look over it again. I'm looking straight up, you know, and I said, is he perched up on one elbow smiling? And she turns and looks back at me and she goes, yeah. And we just sat there frozen, you know? And again, the pounding ensued the rest of the night. And then it's like 4.30 in the morning. And one of the teachers was up.

And I was like, I'm out of this room. I'm getting out of this room. And we go tell him, hey, this happened last night. And they were like, no, it didn't. And we were like, you didn't hear the pounding all night long. No. I was made fun of the rest of high school for that. like for seeing the ghost on this person's bed or whatever.

But obviously my friend experienced it with me. So it is what it is. But after that event, obviously I'm traumatized from that. I don't have parents who are Christian who know how to pray or know what to do that night. At 13 years old, I'd go home. And I remember taking a shower and feeling like something came into the bathroom. Like it reminded me exactly of that thing that I just experienced. And I was like, it followed me home.

Like, did it follow me home? And I was just always in fear whenever. I was alone. And that night, I literally wet the bed at like 13 years old because I was that afraid. Wow. You know? And from that point on, I was so tormented. I was already depressed. I was already anxious. I've already been abused. anxiety through the roof. Depression through the roof. Suicidal ideation through the roof. Self-harming now even more than I was before. I'm only 13 years old. I'm in suicide chat rooms online talking with all these people about how much we wanted

to kill ourselves, how we wanted to die, like on AIM, you know, instant messenger. And yeah, it was this glorification for me around death and suicide because I had been through so much and that was like a savior to me, you know, to like envision getting out of this life, right? And so addiction increased at the time. And then after that, I started seeing spiritual. all the time. So I had that encounter at seven, had it at 12, could pick up on stuff in between, but this was like, I'm driving down, you know, my street and I could see a ghost. I'm going into a person's house and I know it's haunted and I know what spirit it is. Like I like knew. And so this was a curse that was put on me, right? Because again, a curse cannot land without a cause and where there's

torment, there's a demon. And so I became more demonized after that event. And then I'm in my addiction. I'm obviously, you know, living in sin, sleeping with a boyfriend in high school. And then at 17, this was such a pivotal time in my life because I think had I had healthy support, people that knew deliverance, had like Christian people, other than my grandma who didn't really know deliverance, you know, like had solid people in my life. I think that I could have maybe been saved from way more hell that I literally had to walk through, unfortunately. and went through. And so 17, boyfriend that I have cheats on me. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm devastated, right? This is the person I lost my virginity to. It was like, yeah, it was so painful.

But two months or a month before that, I catch my mom cheating on my dad. And I had been raised in this alcoholic home where my dad was like very depressed. And he was such a life of the party. Like I loved him. He's an artist as well. And I just like always wanted to take care of him. I was very codependent, right? That prentified child type of thing, you know? Did you experience that in your family? No, I don't think so. Okay.

Yeah, so I had that codependency, right, with my dad. And so when I found out that my mom had cheated on my dad, I let it go the first time. And then I caught her a second time and I was like, I have to tell my dad, you know? And then I get cheated on. And I just, after that, I was like, screw everybody. It was the tipping point for me. It was a straw that broke the camel's back. And I just went into full-blown adjunct.

addiction. That's when I became a full-blown alcoholic, was at 17, you know, broke up with that boyfriend, started sleeping with other people, started doing drugs. I was like, I don't care anymore. My parents say, like, can't stay out late. Screw you guys. Come home, like vomiting. Like, I just could care less. You know, I was really, really depressed. And, you know, depression, I just want to say this, because we were talking about depression, like a little bit earlier, is it falls under a spirit of rejection. Again, just like anger is a neon sign to unforgiveness. Depression is a neon sign to rejection. There's a rejection wound. Winded rejection into your life. If there's codependency, there's rejection. If there's massive insecurity, there's rejection. You know, if there's suicidal

ideation, suicide is the ultimate self-rejection, right? And so there's so many things that fall under a spirit of rejection. And I see that. People get delivered of that the most in deliverance. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have, I know you have thoughts on this. There's a lot of people who will talk about during the deliverance side of things. Yeah. That Christians don't need to be going through deliverance because it's impossible. I just triggered you. I just like, with all my eyes, insert eye roll here.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't even need to finish this question, but it's like, you know, how do you, how do you deal with that? Because it's, I see it a lot with just with what I do and stuff. Yeah. People are suggesting that, you know, this guest here talking about delivering. That was ridiculous because it's not necessary if you're a Christian. And it's just like, to me, I'm just like, well, I know where I stand on things as far as like

nobody can judge my heart except for God, right? Nobody knows my heart except for God. I know my heart. I think I know my heart. And I'm very convinced that I'm a Christian and I love the Lord. And I just in the time of doing this podcast have been attacked demonically countless times. Yeah. And like there's there's things that want to sink their fangs into you.

and attach themselves to you. And I guess maybe sometimes people, they don't know how to distinguish, and if there is a distinguishing, because this is where I'm in the process of learning myself, the difference between demonic oppression and possession. And if there is a difference, what is it? Right. And I don't even like that question because that's like, no, it's okay. No.

I asked you if you want to review the questions before we started. You said, no, you're an open book. I said, okay. No, but it is a good question because it's a commonly asked question, but I don't like the question because it's not even biblical. Okay, so the Bible doesn't say possession or oppression. Like, we have created this as a Christian culture. The Bible, if you look at the original text, the Greek, it's the word means demonized. And I can't pronounce it correctly.

It's like daimonized. Diamond I. It goes D-A-I-M. Yeah. You know what I'm saying. But what that word actually means is to be influenced by demons. So, and one third of Jesus's ministry, just about one third, was deliverance. And I cannot stand when Christians, pastors, leaders, prophets, eventually, whatever the heck, speak against deliverance,

say, oh, you don't need a three-hour deliverance. Oh, you don't need a six-hour deliverance. Oh, you don't even need deliverance. Or like, once you get saved, you're delivered. What are you talking about? Deliverance and salvation are two completely different things. That's like saying baptism is the same as healing. No, healing can happen when you get baptized. It's not the same thing that's happening in a person's body. You know what I'm saying? And so for people that like I was a Christian, I got radically saved. We haven't even talked about how I got saved because that was crazy.

I was a witch at a Christian non-profit. Like, how do you end up there? You know what I mean? We're going to go there next. Yeah. But I got radically saved. It was on fire for a year and then fell back into sexual sin. I don't even, I always say fall back because that's just like out of habit.

I didn't fall back. It's a slow demise and then you're in sin. know what I mean? There's things you're doing and you're not doing and then you're, you know, living in sin again. And so I'd fallen back into sexual sin for four years as a Christian. You're not really going to church much anymore. All this stuff became very, very tormented. But I got delivered of this story, like getting delivered of over 1,000 demons, 1,500 demons. That was five years into my salvation. Wow. That wasn't before I got saved. That wasn't like the first week that I got saved. I lived in torment for five years of my Christian walk.

And then I got delivered by the grace of God. And had I gotten delivered immediately, it probably wouldn't have stayed because my heart was not right. You know what I'm saying? So the Lord has actually had me turn people away for deliverance that have come to me. And like, I had a roommate once and she wanted deliverance. And I was like, game, you know? And the Lord was like, no. I'm like, okay, that's weird. And every time I would pray, no, don't do deliverance with her. And I was like, I don't really know why. She asked me three times every time the Holy Spirit, told me no. And why would God say that? I don't know. Well, turns out she was living in all the sin. Her heart was not right. Had I done a deliverance on that woman, it would have been a Matthew 12

experience that seven more wicked demons would have come back. And had I been disobedient to the Lord, that's on my back. And I have to repent. You know what I'm saying? And I've literally seen Matthew 12 play out before my very eyes. So I'm so serious about like people, you know, getting to delivered and being free of sin and understanding you need to be plugged into a healthy church, because there's lots of unhealthy churches out there, be plugged into a healthy church being mentored or disciples and working on mind renewal by the word of God. Maybe you need therapy, you know, whatever you need to do. Maybe you need a 12-step program. All this stuff is good. But yeah, and so what was your question? Oh yeah, the possession versus oppression. I mean, I was, yeah,

a Christian and had a thousand demons cast out of me. The demons came in through open doors. sin is not the only open door. Habitual and willful sin is one open door. The next book I'm working on is called 13 doors. Well, it's already written, but it's like coming out at the end of the year. It's the 13 doors of deception. You know, there's trauma. That's an open door. Like you don't, if somebody sins against your own body, that's not your fault. But demonic spirits will come in because there's a vulnerability. Again, like we were talking about with children. So if you're being abused as a child, that's not your fault. Unfortunately, that's an open door. And the demonic have legal access to that, right? So there's the open door

of trauma. There's addiction. There's curses, cursed objects, cursed buildings. There's habitual and wilfless. And there's obviously the occult. So many Christians are so just not educated. And they think when it comes to spiritual warfare and they think the only open door is the occult. Oh, well, I don't have demons because I've never done witchcraft. Well, first of all, let's really talk about your life because you might have done witchcraft and you didn't know. Yeah, because I mean, witchcraft is not just sitting around a boiling, pot of water. Exactly. Literally. Like Reiki, so many Christians come to me and they're like doing Reiki and I was like, girlfriend, that is witchcraft. Yes, it is. And they, and I have seen one of the

gnarliest deliverances I've ever seen was a woman who was a Christian who became a Reiki practitioner and had no idea. Like, should I tell her story? I was like, I can do it. I can make it quick. We're here to talk. We're like, we got time. I could just go on and on about all these things. You know what I mean? But this woman had come to me. It was so crazy. So this is when I had deliverance listed online for people to sign up. And I think someone had canceled theirs or something, but a spot opened up like on a Monday. And I remember, I listed it. And like, 12 hours had gone by and nobody booked it. And I was like, that's really weird because people, when I have deliverance, people book it like that. And I was like, okay, nobody booked it. That's weird. You know, I think I went to bed that night. Nobody had still booked it.

I was like, oh, I guess I have like Monday off. Like, I'm not doing anything. I'll do other things, whatever. And then I wake up in the morning and somebody had booked it. And I pull up, you know, what she had filled out in her application. And it was like, I was like, oh, Lord, you're going to have to help me. All she wrote in her application was I have worms. I have worms.

I have worms that move around my body all the time. Yikes. And I was like, okay, either this person needs a parasite cleanse, actually, or she's maybe completely insane, which you still need deliverance when you're insane, but sometimes you can try to do deliverance on a schizophrenic person and nothing happens because there's a lot of other stuff at play that needs to be dealt with. Yeah. You know, like, I take no credit for a deliverance. I take no blame for a deliverance not working, you know. And so... That's a great philosophy. Yeah. And because I used to be hard on myself sometimes if I'm like doing deliverance with somebody

and they're not getting free. I'm like, Lord, like, do I don't have enough authority? Do I not, I mean, not like prophetic enough? Do I not know? And it's like, you could be on repentant. You could have, again, those years blocked out in your life. You haven't done any trauma work or God's never revealed to you yet that you've been through all this abuse and that's an open door. You know what I mean? Or it could be that they're in a victim mindset, which is so awful and probably the biggest hindrance in deliverance. If you're committed to a victim mindset, I can't cast a demon out of you. Because you have come into agreement with a lie and you have made it your narrative. I can't break that off of you. You have to do that in your own mind. I can speak to you

and counsel you and help you. But yeah, so this woman fills out the application says, I have worms crawling around my body. I was like, oh, God, you're going to have to help me. I don't know what's going on. And I am not someone who hyper spiritualizes. I know a lot of people can in discussions like this, but we're mind, body, and spirit. So even when I see people again with OCD to go back to that, okay, so yeah, you may have a spirit of fear and control and whatever else. You may also need mind renewal. You're going to have to learn how to take your thoughts captive and create new neural pathways in your brain. That's work that you have to do in your mind through therapy or just having being counseled, right, reading the word, whatever. And there might be

a physical component because with OCD, there is a physical component. So in the DSM5, which is like the diagnostic manual for mental illnesses, it will say with OCD diagnosis, if it's a female, make sure they get their hormones checked first. Because if you have low progesterone or no progesterone, it's going to create obsessive type thinking in your mind. That's a hormone issue. That's not a demon. Wow. Yes. So I had like hormone issues. We talked about earlier like I got out of all this abuse. It messed up a lot of got a lot of health stuff like coming out of that. But one of the things was my cortisol was so high for so long when I finally got out of abuse. It dropped and so did all my other hormones. So everything was completely shot. And before my cycle, every month for like three days before my cycle, I would have to be.

OCD-type thoughts, tormenting. And I was like, I've already been delivered of this. Like, what is going on? It was a hormone issue. Got on a hormone therapy, went away within two months. Wow. So I just want to say that because we can be like, it's a demon, it's this, it's this. And it might be a demon and a physical issue and a mental health thing where you need support in that way. Are you familiar with Dr. Laura Sanger? No, I don't think so. She's awesome. But she said to me the very first time, I ever talked to her, she said, because she used to be a clinical psychologist, I think it was.

And now, like, she recommends people, and I might be, this is my recall of this. Yeah. It's not like, the doctor didn't say this. Like fact check it. Tony is saying this, the doctor isn't. But I believe, if I remember correctly, she said that she actually recommends people do parasite cleanses before they go any further just to, because she wants to know what's a parasite, if they do parasite cleanse and it's still going on, great. Now we've removed that as an

option. Yeah. I mean, I would agree with that too. I would also say make sure that it's like you have a doctor and they're helping you because for me, I've done two parasite cleanses now. But the second one that I just went through recently, I had to do certain things before that because things in my body were so messed up. Had I done the parasite cleanse sooner, it actually would have harmed me more. Even though the parasite was out, my body couldn't take it because my health. So I do want to say that for people. But yeah, you got to rule out other factors too. But also, if you're a Christian, you're white knuckling, like, oh, I just, I need to not watch porn. I need not watch porn. You're thinking about it all day, every day. Like, ah, bro, where there's torment, there's demon.

You need deliverance. Go anoint your home. You know, get the apps. I mean, the apps aren't really great for the porn stuff. Like, you know, like you had to flip phone if you have to. Because you know how there's, like, you can block yourself out of apps, but you can just type in your password and get back in if you really want, just like any addiction. if you really want it bad enough, you can go have it. But yeah, so this woman, she says, you know, that she's having worms, feels worms all throughout her body, whatever. I meet with her. And she tells me, it's so crazy. She tells me, we get on the call. And she was like, it's so crazy, Jenny. I looked to see if you had in deliverances. You didn't have any

availability. And I was like, oh, yeah. But then that one Monday spot opened up. And she's like, and then I fell asleep. And the Holy Spirit woke me up at 1 a.m. and said, go on Jenny Joy's website. She has one deliverance spot for tomorrow. And she was like, no way. And she goes on. This is like an older lady. She goes on. It's one spot for tomorrow. So she books it. She writes in the worm thing. And I'm like, okay. And I was like, okay, tell me what's going on with you. Obviously, you only wrote this. Like, what's going on? She's like, oh, yeah, I've been having, it's tapeworms that move around my body. They go up and down my legs, my back, my stomach. I can feel them biting in my brain. And I was like, oh boy. I was like, okay, well, let's roll out the physical. I was like, have you done a parasite cleanse? She goes,

Yes, I've been going to the doctor for four, five years. I think it was the four years or five years. She's been going to the doctor trying to figure it out nothing is happening on the test. Like she can't figure out why she's feeling this, right? So maybe the doctors are writing it off that she's insane. I don't really know. And so I was like, okay. I said, when did this start? She goes, actually, I think it came in through the COVID vaccine, which I've seen people, some people get deliverance from like vaccine stuff. It hasn't been anything crazy or like IUDs. I literally saw somebody get deliverance after they took out their IUD birth control. So, really interesting, right? And so I was like, okay. And she goes, yeah, it's a bummer, though, because two weeks before the COVID vaccine and got my Reiki practitioner degree or certificate or whatever. And I was like, this is not a vaccine issue. This is a witchcraft spirit issue. And I said, do you know that Reiki is witchcraft? And she goes, what? I was like, yes. She's like, but you lay on hands. That's where this is where Christians get confused, but it's a laying on of hands. And I was like, look, you are a channel for demons. When you are. You are a channel for demons. you are doing Reiki. It is not, I'm praying for your healing in Jesus' name. Holy Spirit,

heal this person. It's not that. You are operating in witchcraft and you're a channel. I just explained this on another podcast recently. There's a demon here. There's the Reiki practitioner here. And there's the person that's receiving the Reiki. This person in the middle is a channel for that demon to move through them. So they're getting demonized more and more every time. And then the person that's receiving the Reiki is also getting demonized. So you do that that many times. You're opening up the door for demons to enter you again and again and again. When you look at like Hindu religion, right, because they, with all their gods and all their altars, right, they go to the altar every day and ask that spirit to enter them. So they're getting demonically, like,

possessed, oppressed every single day that they go to that altar. So when you're doing Reiki and you've done it 100 times, that's 100 times that you've asked demons into your body. You know what I'm saying? That is wild. Yeah. And so this woman, I tell her, this. she has no clue. And I said, do you have books on this? Like, do you have, she goes, yes. I said, get them all right now. Like, we're done with this. And she's totally convicted. Some people will try to, like, fight it. Right. And I'm like, whatever, bro, keep your demons. That's on you. You know, I've told you what's up. But she was like, I can't believe that she's so deceived. So she gets rid of her stuff on the call. And then we walk through deliverance. And before I start,

like, commanding it to come out, she's feeling it biting at her back. It's a demon. Those worms are demons. She literally gets delivered that day. I say email me in two to three days. Let me know how you're doing. It stopped. She went in through like more deliverances. She needed more.

There was somebody else, I think, that she was able to walk through that with. But it went away. So something that she thought was a physical issue was a demonic spirit moving throughout her body. And demons will do that. They will move, you know? You know, I,

how much exposure have you? add to Reiki? Like in person? Yeah. So my ex-boyfriend, he's in prison now. We can talk about that. That's another interesting story. I don't think we have enough time to talk about all the things.

I definitely want to get to your salvation part. So we'll skip that one. I mean, he's part of that. Like, that's how I got. Yeah. But his mom and his dad were really into witchcraft. And like, especially his mom and I was too. And obviously he was.

And we had gone to like a psychic fair. and I saw his dad get healed through Reiki, like his ankle. He couldn't walk. He got healed. So I've seen it. I've had it done to me. And I've done it like with my best friend. But I never was like a Reiki practitioner or anything like that.

Yeah. So that's a great point too. So demon healing. That's a real thing. Yep. I have only been in the presence of Reiki once. Regrettfully, my son was there. Oh.

I was earlier in the podcasting day. and I was invited to be a vendor at a paracan. Yeah, you told me about that briefly. You didn't tell me this story, but that it was like a paranormal event and you were there as a Christian. Yeah. I was, I've done that a lot. But this one was my first time, I think my last time. And the lady doing the Reiki on this other lady, like, I was like, that is demonic.

Yeah. Because I don't know if every session's like that. this, but like the woman was like shaking. Yeah, because she's receiving a demon. Yeah, and that's what it looked like to me. I was like, that ain't right. No. And I said, come on boy.

No, I just kidding. I don't even think he was there. He was, I mean, he was there at one point, but I don't think he was there for that. Yeah. During that period, because Lindsay had brought him over because it was at this like really old building. I wanted to walk around her and Ben. But anyways, like, that was my experience with Reiki.

And, and I was like, from that point on, I was like, yeah, That ain't, like, because I, my book, when my book comes out, it lays out like my progression into my understandings of things. And there's a big chunk of my life with this stuff that comes from this show. I learned a lot through the show and talking to people and the idea that Reiki comes up. And my only experience with Reiki was that. But that alone, I was like, that ain't good. No. That's not good at all. No. And the fact that, and we've had people email who will say, you know, they're Christian Reiki practitioners. They'd love to come on the show to say to the other. I'm just like, no. Like, I'm not, I mean. Do you tell them? Do you say

Reiki is demonic? I don't even do the email, so I don't know what they're saying. Totally. But like Tony of, you know, six, seven years ago probably would have invited that person on to talk to them to see what's what. But I'm past that. I'm just like, no, I'm not curious about this. I know what this is now. And that's why, like, the story. The story. The the show. I've been saying this a lot recently. The show has been like, it's been like in several stages. The first stage was curiosity driven. I'm inviting people on. Tell me your story. Tell me what you've seen. What you've experienced. And I'm asking a question. And there's, there's an audience for that. And people enjoy that. And I know some people hate the fact that I do the show the way I do it now and it

is what it is. But the second stage of the show was I've talked to enough people and I have questions. Yeah. Because I'm starting to connect dots. And I'm hearing several people say the same thing. only the difference was that, you know, you were a witch having this experience, this person over here, all they did was live a little on a property that they say they had a big foot on. And there's similarities. I'm like, why? And so like there's this like now I was like the investigative stage. And now the show has become more, it's still investigative for sure. But it's like I'm not really here to play footsie with things that I'm pretty sure are really dark. I'm going to expose it. I'm going to point at it. And I'm just going to tell people what it is. Jesus is your only hope. Period. Just straight up. Yeah. And so like the show's gone through those different stages.

But, you know, in the first stage, I mean, that lady doing Reiki at that thing, if I had an opportunity to interview, I would have. Whoa. And so like. I'm glad you didn't. Yeah, I know. Yeah. I know.

Same. But you said that your boyfriend's dad experienced healing. Yeah. And we see this in the Bible, too. You know what I mean? in the book of Exodus, right? The magicians and pharaohs, whatever, people, like, they were performing miracles too. So that can't be the only, you know, evidence for us to pursue something. You know what I'm saying? Like, oh, this person got healed. It must be good. No, there's one thing. I see a lot of Christians,

and some might, I might get hate for this. I don't care. But is muscle testing an emotion code. It's like a thing that people do through like holistic doctors, even maybe. be some functional medicine doctors will do it. And there's like, quote unquote, science to back it up. Science also backs up energy. That doesn't mean you should be doing energy healing. You know what I'm saying? And people will do muscle testing and it will tell you what you went through at the age. It's literally like, hello? TV just turned on. You were saying muscle testing. This TV just did something and started turning on and started talking. Crazy. Yeah. So, yeah, muscle testing. It's demonic.

You know, and my cousin, her daughter, she or my cousin's wife, they deal with like, their daughter deals with a lot of health stuff and she's desperate. And one thing that witchcraft is going to attract the desperate, right? Like if you can't figure out how to get free of this thing, you might go to witchcraft, you might go to a witch doctor, you might do this because you're like, I desperately want to get free of my trauma or I desperately want to get pregnant, right? We see a lot of people go to witch doctors who can't get pregnant and they've tried all these things. They don't want to do IVF, so they go to a witch doctor, they get the spell, then they get pregnant. Well, now a curse has come upon your life and your child's life, right? But muscle testing,

and I've never done it, and I don't know enough about it, but I have seen people get delivered of demons connected to emotion code, which is 100% demonic and muscle testing. Emotion code. Emotion code. So it happened to me actually after my first deliverance. I worked with a woman. I quit the job after. I helped her with her business, and I would even co-host on her podcast, which was like all about women. And we actually interviewed one time a Reiki practitioner. And I was like, I'm never doing this again. Like it was because it was after my first deliverance and I didn't know that we're going to have somebody like that on. And I was just like, give me out of this office. I quit after that, right? But she did a motion code. And it was like I would put my hands up.

And you could probably go on YouTube or TikTok, Instagram, find like a video of it. But I'd put my hands up. And she would ask me a question. And if my, she pushed my hands. My hands went down. It meant that I really mean no. It just reminds you. we have a pendulum. You know what a pendulum is? Yeah, where it's like circles this way for yes, circles this way for, it's witchcraft. It's stuff with energy. But people will be like, oh, this is really helpful for, you know, the Christian and you get to figure out, like, do you really want to eat this food or that food? What? Are we really that, like, confused that we don't know if we want to eat a sweet potato or like a salad? Like, please.

Like, let your yes be yes and your no be no, bro. And literally, no, bro. It needs to be a series on social media. Yeah, so like I had a friend, my best friend, she moved into a new home in Texas. It was a new build. Her and her husband and their new baby were living there. Everything's fine. And then her sister is getting holistic training and doing all the stuff through, she has like a lot of health stuff and she's going through school, holistic training. And she starts learning about muscle testing. And she's taking her classes and doing her trainings at her sister's house, their brand new house. And her sister, my best. best friend, she calls me, and she goes, I don't know who else to call. Like, this really weird stuff is happening to me and my husband. And I'm having this really evil demonic dreams about my daughter being, like, killed and like demons sitting on my daughter. Like, she doesn't normally, like, like, for me, I have like a lot of experiences like this. So that would not be like something new.

Yeah, exactly. I was like, oh, well, Lord, tell me what to pray or how to come against it. Right. But for her, this is not normal. So this is starting to happen. And she's also postpartum, but she's not dealing with psychosis or anything like that. Like postpartum is hard for a lot, most moms, but she's like waking up to hearing footsteps in her bathroom. She's waking up to hearing something saying her name and she's going in the back room and then she's hearing it saying her name. And then her husband's experiencing the same thing. And then her babies cry. All this weird stuff that suddenly happened. And I said, okay, have you anointed your home? Yeah. I said, okay, do it again with your husband, right? Because he's the spiritual head of the house. Like,

do it with your husband. This is how you do it. Told her what to do. do, anoint the property. I said, has anybody lived there before? Maybe there's been a cult practices. No, this is a new build. I said, go anoint the land, just in case it's been a cursed land, whatever. It's still happening. And then she asks me, she goes, but my sister has been doing these classes, what do you know about, like, muscle testing and emotion code? I said, girl, like, that's it. Tell her that she cannot do that anymore in your house and tell your sister, because she's a Christian. I said, tell her she needs to repent immediately. And so, She tells her sister, can't do this in my house.

They anoint the house, they pray, it completely stops. Wow. So Christians that are getting involved in this, it's literal witchcraft. And it's so deceptive. And again, it's for the desperate. Like when I went and saw psychic mediums and warlocks and witches, I was desperate for healing. Like nobody does a yoga class where you're centering your chakras and puts a blue agate on their third eye, which is a stone to heal your childhood trauma, unless you're desperate for healing. Right.

You know what I'm saying? And so the enemy plays on that. And I don't know how we got here. It's fine. It's the open door, though. You know, the enemy is very patient and methodical. Yes. It's like, I think we often think, you know, because I talk a lot about spiritual warfare on the show.

Yeah. And I think the generic mentality with spiritual warfare is like, oh, I'm going to pray so hard today. And it's like, it's like the warfare is so sly and cunning. Yes. And it requires, and some of the strongest opposition you can put towards the enemy is worship. So good. Ooh, I have something to say about that. You go first.

Okay. Yeah. But, I mean, your worship is literally warfare. I think there's like a company out there that has T-shirts that say worship is warfare. I'm like, that's so true. I hope they understand how true that is. Yeah. But like the enemy is 100% waiting for the open door.

And so instead of thinking you got to get on your lightsaber prayer warrior attitude, which I'm not knocking, I think, that there is a time for what I would call violent prayer. Yes. But it's 100% devotion and dedication to Christ on a daily basis. Yeah. And that is your, like living out your worship, that is warfare. It is going to keep you from falling prey to the enemy. more than anything else. 100%.

Go ahead. What are you going to say? No, it's really good that you said that. Yeah, I had this dream. We were talking earlier. You know, the Lord speaks to me through dreams quite a bit. Like, if he can't get my attention, like, he will tell me in a dream. And I'm like, oh, like, there's no question.

Like, I just know. You know, and I've had dreams where I'm experiencing something in the dream and I can hear the Lord speaking to me, like, from above, speaking to me about what's happening in the dream and what's actually happening in a certain situation or giving me, like, spiritual warfare strategy because there's strategy, just like in war, you don't just go and shoot up the place. There is strategy. Yes. There's strategy. And it's the same with spiritual warfare. And we don't need to be paranoid. And I'm not, but it's like there's certain strategy for certain seasons. And the Lord, I don't know, to me, he's like a chess player. He knows what he's doing.

And he might tell you to do something that makes no sense to you and you do it. And then this, this happens as a result. And it's because you receive strategy from the Lord. I remember somebody when I was in ministry school, I was going through some stuff, but she told me, pray for strategy. And I was like, I never heard that before. And I could tell a story about that. But it was crazy. I did what the Lord said. And I was like, whoa. And it protected me and my son. And it was like not something that I would have like brought up in court or like it was a total strategy from the Lord. And it called my ex-husband's bluff in front of the judge. And I would, I wasn't even trying to do that. I was not trying to do that. I was like, I don't want to offer visitation. I don't want to offer this. And the Lord was like, do it. Offer it this and this time.

And they offered it to him and it called his bluff. And the judge threw the papers out of him. And then a bunch of stuff came out after that. Because I knew that there were things that were happening. But I didn't have the tangible evidence for it yet. I had the discernment and knew what type of person he was. But evidence came out after that like two months later. And it was just like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

But it was strategy from the Lord because he's a chest. player. He's a poker player. He knows how to play. And you just got to listen. So, but about worship is I had had this dream, maybe six months ago now. And I don't go into all the details of the dream, but I was in my childhood home and I could feel like demonic presence. Like I could hear it. I could feel it. And I was like, what is going on? And I was like trying to pray against it. Nothing was changing. I put on worship music. And I could feel like demonic spirits get like agitated. I could feel the agitation happen. And I had played worship music on the TV in the dream. And I could hear a demonic voice that was like, stop that. And I played the worship music. And then I started to pray.

But I wasn't like, Lord help me or God help my family. I was declaring who God was is in the dream. Jesus, you are the king of kings, the Lord of Lords, the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. Like what does scripture say that he is our strong tower, our refuge, our counselor, our teacher, our deliverer, our healer? I'm saying all of the. this and the demonic spirits are freaking out in the dream and then they're leaving and all i did was worship and then declare who god was and so that's super powerful you know so even when i do deliverance with people i always play like a worship song to start because that's just a good thing for the atmosphere but i always pray and declare who god is because if there's demons there that are coming up

against truth in that person's mind those demons are going to manifest and those spirits of deception I've got to go in Jesus' name, you know? Absolutely. Yeah. I agree with that, and you see that pattern throughout the entire scriptures. Like, the presence of Christ agitates the demons. Like, you look at, I think he's in Mark 4 or 5 when Jesus comes to shore and he's at the tombs. Yeah, Mark 5.

Yeah, demonic. Like, that man that's demon-possessed, and I know Matthew, there's a second man. Right. I'm not going to get into that, but I could if I wanted to. That's good. He comes, but he comes as a possessed man, and these things have been controlling him. Yeah. And they were stirred up to the point to come to Christ, but Christ himself was speaking to them

before they even, before he, the man physically arrived in. Like, there's this clash between Jesus and the enemy that we don't see happening. And it's a real war that stirs up on a daily basis in our lives. Yeah. And it manifests in different ways. But when you wake up, when I wake up, when Jack wakes up, we put our feet on the floor. We are literally stepping into a battlefield every day. Yeah.

The enemy hates us. And they want to destroy us. Yeah. And we, we as in like a collective human society, even let's say collective Christian culture in America, we often act like that's not the case. We don't live like that's the case. And I'm guilty of that. I don't wake up every day saying, game on, Satan. You know, I wish I did.

But you know what? Today I woke up on the couch because I have a puppy I'm trying to keep from waking up my family. You know what I did, I woke up and said, all right, dog, let's go outside. Yeah. You know, so it's just real. But this, the presence of the Lord does stir up the enemy and they vacate, you know. I want to bring it one more thing, and then I want to bring in for landing with you sharing how you came to Christ. Yeah. But earlier you mentioned about legal rights with demons. And you were also talking about that in the vein of deliverance.

And I'll let you go wherever you want to go with this. But I want to say that I think that people often, have a level of guilt when it comes to the idea that they could have demonic oppression. Like, there's this idea that like, well, what did I do? Or even like, you know, something happened to when I was three. And there's like this guilt of like, why do I have this demonic thing and I'm a Christian? There's all this legality that demons try to throw at people. if you could speak into any of that because like it's

I feel like there's a lot of people out there that are even scared to walk into deliverance because they feel like that would be them admitting that they did something wrong and they don't even understand what they did wrong and maybe it's not even them maybe it's a generational thing.

Right. Well, I mean, even just you saying that sounds like pride to me, right? But there's multiple things, probably the most common things that I see people, like, they're hindered in coming to deliverance is pride. I'm a Christian, I can't have a demon, right? That's pride.

That's also ignorance. Shame, which is also what you're describing. Like, oh, like, I didn't mean to do that. Like, God's forgiven me. Yeah, but there's still a demon there. And like, you want to be free so that you don't have to be tormented. You could keep a demon your whole life if you want. And some people do.

They go to the grave with those demons and then those demons go elsewhere when the person dies, right? But pride, ignorance, shame, and fear. none of those things are from the Lord, right? For me, I want to check if there's any demonic spirits. And they can come in, I'm not living in habitual sin right now, right? But I got delivered of something months ago because I had come into agreement with the false belief of really, I'll just be like super transparent. It wasn't anything crazy. But I'm dealing with a lot of health stuff in the last year. It's been really hard. And I just was like, I'm too tired. Get up in the morning. I'm too tired. I'm too tired to read my Bible. I still would read my Bible, but it wasn't deep. I'm too tired to worship. Like before I would wake up, when I first got delivered, dude, I would, the Lord told me

5 to 7 a.m. are mine every day. When I first got delivered, he said, boot camp starts tomorrow. I said, what's boot camp? He said, 5 to 7 a.m. are mine every day. So you'll see. Yeah. No, and he coached me in spiritual warfare, literally. And I would wake up and I didn't know what to do, you know, from 5.

to seven a.m. I was like, I guess I'll read the word. I guess I'll pray. I'll play some worship music. And then I began to develop, you know, a relationship with Jesus, a real one. And then I learned spiritual warfare. I'm like, oh, I'm going to pray in tongues for an hour today. Or like, the Lord wants to pray for my family for these two hours. I'm just going to read the same verse out of James over and over again and ask God what he means. You know what I mean? It was different every day. It was not the same every day, which I think is hard for some of our personalities of like, well, I just want to know what's it going to be like. And the Lord's like, it's different every day. It doesn't need to be the same every day. And it also doesn't need to be like life changing

and charismatic every day. It's just that consistency and that discipline. But where was I going with that? We were talking about the guilt and deliverance. Yeah. So for me, I think it's really important to just seek out deliverance, whether you think you have a demon or not. And like I said, go once a year. And I'd come into agreement with this spirit in the last year of like, I'm too tired. I'm too tired. I'm too tired to do the things of God. Like, I'm too tired, and I would still do it, and it was really hard. And then it got to this point. I went to the biggest porn convention of the year in January.

I saw that. I saw that. Oh, it's so awesome. I can't wait for the next one and what the Lord does, because, listen, you can't, I mean, you can do whatever you want, but, like, I don't share the gospel in, like, a normal way that I would maybe share it to a Christian who already knows because I'm not going to speak Christianese to somebody who doesn't understand that language. and I'm really tender and really sensitive to the Holy Spirit's leading on how to approach different people. And sometimes it's actually just a conversation about what do you believe? And like, this is what I believe. Like, do you believe there's a higher power?

What is that to you? That's interesting. I used to believe like that too. And then this happened. Like, you know, and I'm super chill with it. And then some people, the Lord will tell me, like, tell them they need to forgive their mom. And I'm like, you need to forgive your mom. Like, and it's really intense.

But it's just being led by the Holy Spirit. But, you know, I went to Avian, and it was around that time that I would like, I started to have this, I mean, this is like super vulnerable for me to say, I would read the word and I started to feel disgust. And I was like, I don't feel disgust. I love the word of God. I love Jesus. Why am I feeling disgust? Like, what is going on here? I would go into worship. And it maybe went on for a couple weeks. And I was like, this is not normal. If somebody sought me out for deliverance and they're feeling disgust with the things of God, I would think that's a demon. So I called my deliverance. ministers, and I was like, hey, I'm having these feelings and these thoughts. And I've had a really hard time with my quiet time in the last year. I'm still doing it, but it feels like I'm moving neck deep through wet cement. And we all experience spiritual warfare. If it's going on for a long time, there's probably something else going on, you know? So they pray. And he's just like calling out different things. And he's so like chill and nonchalant. And he'll just call out what the function is. He doesn't, you don't need to know its name. And when it came in, we don't need to do all that.

I mean, maybe sometimes, I guess. But he's like, Dean. of too tired. The demon that is convincing Jenny that she's too tired. Get out. I manifest and I get delivered the next day, immediate fruit, two hours of quiet time with the Lord. Now, I hadn't done anything wrong, but I had come into agreement with, I have a health issue, and it makes me very tired. That's a reality. That's truth. I'm not going to live in delusion and be avoidant of my situation, right? We don't see Jesus be avoidant and deny actual reality. We deny our flesh. Don't deny reality. That's not good. That turns into something else. You know what I mean? And so, yeah, I just come into agreement of what I'm too tired. I'm too tired for the things of God. And agreeing with that over

time gave access to that demonic spirit. So my second book, the 13 doors, the 13th one is agreements. And it's the most, one of the most sneaky. Same with trauma too. Trauma's pretty sneaky, but coming into agreements with things as a Christian because we do it all the time. I've come into agreement with the spirit of religion. And then that affected me for a month. And I was like, Why can't I enter the presence of God? Why am I so condemning to other people in my mind and my heart? A spirit of religion came in. I came into agreement with it somehow.

You know, so seeking out deliverance. Yeah, so there's a lot of, like, legal rights of the enemy. And the enemy, yeah, we can all be susceptible to them. Did that answer your question? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just here for a conversation.

So I don't care where it goes. Yeah. So you mentioned your book a couple of times. Do you feel like there, there's people out there that are going to not like the fact you're using 13 as part of the title. Yeah. As a former witch. Yeah.

I can already see the conspiracies drumming up from it. Yeah. And it could be 12 doors, but then I would be leaving one out. So the reality is that what I have seen and experienced and what other deliverance ministers have experienced too are that all these things that I've mentioned, these 13 different ways that demons enter in. Like, that's what we see in deliverance. Soul ties is one of them. Fears and phobias. That's a huge thing that just, you know, is oppressing the church is fear.

Man, I can't wait to have you here for that book. What book? Oh, my second book. I was like, is there another book? I was like, I didn't know if you're talking about your book. Yeah. No. There's a lot of books.

Yeah. My book. Nobody wants my book. That's not true. Don't say that. Everybody wants Tony's book. Everybody wants my book. Yeah.

When it comes out sometime in 26. Yeah. All right. So let's bring it in here because I think ending on the redemptive note is. is perfect. How you, so you're going through trauma, your entire life, you get into witchcraft, the enemy's just throwing you for loops every which way. Yeah.

How do you come to Christ and how does coming to Christ usher you out of all this nonsense you've been in? I mean, we kind of hit on the fact that how the Lord kind of brought you out of stuff once you could turn in, but what was this coming to Christ moment for you? Yeah, so it was, I mean, it was crazy. And I love it because it's an actual book now because it's literally, it's a book. Like my life, this part of my life especially is like something out of a book. And then the Lord had me write a book, which I think is like really cool.

And yes, it's my story, but it's like the story of Jesus's redemption, you know? And it's the story of Jesus, like what he does with anybody who is willing to actually humble themselves and turn to him. And I didn't find God. I was on a quest to find truth, but like Jesus found me. And I think every single person that has been saved, especially those radical salvations, like I think that we could all come into agreement. No, Jesus actually found me. He was actually like looking for me and he actually found me.

I wasn't like, oh, he's behind this curtain. It was like, he's like, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here. So six months, even before I got saved, I had a radical encounter with the fear of the Lord. I don't know what that means. I have no grid for the fear of the Lord. I don't know what the eyes of God would look like, but in my witchcraft, I went into a meditation, and I won't go into the whole backstory, but I went into a meditation to just kind of clear my energy, right? That's like what I would do, align my chakras to connect to the core of the earth, do all this like woo-woo stuff, witchcraft.

And I'm in this meditation. I was just going to do a 10-minute meditation. I could literally go into transcendental meditation in a moment. I could go into astral plane in a moment. Like I was that intense in my practices. And so I'm in this 10-minute meditation. And I think I was about seven-something minutes in because when I stopped my timer, it was like 333. And we can go to there's scripture.

Yeah. I think it's Jeremiah 333. I don't know. I'd have to look it up. I have it in my book and written down. But I'm in this meditation. And I see this beautiful rainbow tunnel. And it's like this, I've never seen anything like it to this day.

Even when I used to do drugs and trip and stuff like, I was never seen anything, this psychedelic seeming. And it was this rainbow tunnel and it had like movement. Like it almost seemed like it was alive. And I'm just entranced by this rainbow tunnel. It's kind of going like upward like that. And I'm really into it. I'm staring at it and I see something in my vision. My eyes are closed, okay?

But I see something out of the corner of my eye, if you will, my line of vision. and it's somebody that's like walking. And I couldn't see the body, but I could see the footsteps. They were like imprints on water. Like I could see the footsteps, walking, walking, walking. Once those footsteps meet this rainbow tunnel, I immediately see these eyes. And they are terrifying, not terrifying like demons. It's a different type of terror.

And terror is the best way I can describe it because it was the fear of the Lord. And it's a terrifying feeling not that I'm scared, but it was, I am in the presence of something so holy that it's actually terrifying me. Because that holiness penetrates everything else that's within you. You know what I'm saying? So it was, I saw these eyes and it was like I was eyebrow to eyebrow with the creator of the universe. Okay. And I could see every single eye, even if I like got super close. your face and was looking at your eyebrow hairs, I can't even see it as clearly as I saw it in this vision. And I could see every single eyebrow hair. It was white. And then I saw these eyes. And the background was like blue, this electric blue that I have not seen on earth. It doesn't, the color doesn't exist here as far as I'm concerned or that I've, you know, discovered yet. And it was this blue, but I saw these eyes, these eyebrows. And the eyes did not have a color. They were like fire.

but it wasn't like orange fire like we see in this picture. It was like changing. I don't know how to explain it. It was supernatural. And all I heard was fear of God. And I came out of this vision. I couldn't even hold eye contact with this. And I just knew. I came out of this vision and I was like, I've like just seen the eyes of God. And my heart starts racing. I was with my friend Ashley. She was a Christian. I was not, she said she was praying for me while I was meditating. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I'm the whole rest of the day, I'm freaked out. I'm freaked out. And it was like right before this, I stopped, I decided to stop necromancing because I would do like readings for people and talk to the dead and do stuff like that. And I had a really weird, scary experience. And I was like, I don't think I should be doing this stuff anymore or something bad is going to happen because I experienced something really weird before that. And then I have this encounter with the eyes of God. And I was just like shaken up the whole day. And it was a different type of fear, right? Do you know what I'm talking about? It's the fear of the Lord.

It's so extreme. I wasn't saved yet. And I go home that night. Can't get it out of my head. My friend Ashley texts me. And she says, hey, is this what you experienced? She texts me a scripture at a revelation. I think it's 114.

I'd have to double check. But it says, his hair is as white as snow or as wide as wall. And his eyes are as a flame of fire. And it's describing Jesus. And I was like, I just saw the eyes of Jesus. And I was like, what the heck is going on? Six months later, I get saved. And I was at a Christian nonprofit.

But I had been in a relationship just to backtrack, and we won't get into the weeds of this, but I was in a relationship for three years. About three years. It was abusive relationship. He was a heroin addict. I was a drug addict, alcoholic, you know, just living in total sin, abusive relationship. He was in a gang. I didn't know that when I started dating him.

And then it'd be on phone. Would you say, great? No, I said, man, that's tough. Yeah. And so, and he was a Satanist before and like his parents were in witchcraft and all this stuff. So it was to me, as delusional as I was then and all the things I'd been through, I met this man who's like this tatted up dude. He's buff. He's an MMA fighter.

He's like hardcore. He's a heroin addict. Like, but he was so like, you know, a convict in and out of jail. I was like, oh, bad boy. Like, yeah, I like this. You know, he shot me up with drugs for the first time. I'm thinking this is love. this is going to be like the movie Candy with Heath Ledger, you know, which is a horrible movie, by the way.

Like, it ends so terribly. The girl loses her mind. You know, it's not a good movie. But I had glorified this lifestyle, right? And so I'm with him. I find out he's in a gang. And I'm like, okay, well, I'm already in this relationship. So I guess I'm just affiliated now. And so I became gang affiliated with the works of crime and the things that he's doing. I'm, you know, on the back of a Harley doing drug runs, like just crazy. And he was, um... I wish you didn't have to leave. I know, I got to get off light. You're going to come back. You have to come back. Yeah, it'll be, yeah, we have a lot to talk about. Holy cow. There's a lot of stuff. I know, this is a really intense part of my story.

And, but I'm so, so thankful just that Jesus honestly got me out of so many things. And yeah, the enemy had a plan for my life, but so did Jesus. And same for you and every single listener and viewer. But I'm in this relationship. He's a Satanist. I'm a witch. It's abusive relationship. I'm going to jail to visit him Friday, Saturdays, and Sundays, you know, and then he starts talking about God because people that are in the gang will give this front, just like in Freemasonry, they'll give a front of like Christianity. And so they'll do this in this gang as well. And but he had buddies that would, like, go to church. And so he wanted us to go and we tried to get baptized. It was not authentic at all, you know, but I'm just like doing what I'm told because I'm in this abusive relationship. I look at the ground when other men are around. Like I'm just listening to kind of what he's, you know, what he's, you know, he says, yeah, it was, it was hard. And being with somebody who's in a gang, especially like a racist one, you know, when you're around other people of different cultures and backgrounds.

Like, I was humiliated to be partnered with this, but I was in this relationship, you know, and that's not something I usually talk about, but that's a reality of that type of lifestyle. And so I'm with him, and we had gotten into like multiple physical altercations, right? And he had tried to gouge my eyes out and strangled me. And he's like this big MMA fighter. He's like on top of me strangling me trying to gouge my eyes out. And I was like, you know, you don't have like thoughts when you're being abused usually. Like there's not a normal train of thought happening. But I remember being like, this is weird. Like that was my thought. This is weird. Like a dude on top of me putting his thumbs in my eye socket. Like that's weird, you know. And I got away. And he slammed my

head into a wall. And it was like after that, I didn't go to the hospital. I was able to, like, get out and run. But after that, I was like, I need to get out of this relationship. And then he was cheating on me. And I was like, oh, I'm not dealing with this type of stuff. Right. So I get a restraining order. I press charges. I'm away from the relationship. Over night, he had like a graveyard shift at his job. I moved all of my stuff out of our apartment, you know, got out. And it was, it put the restraining order. You know, he tried to like contact me, but sort of dating another girl, whatever. And then a month goes by, no contact. And then I get a call from the Newport Beach Police Department. And it's him. And I was like, oh, he's in jail again, which is normal because he's a drug addict and he's doing like violent crimes. Like, you know,

he's in and out of jail all the time. And I was like, oh, he's in jail. Whatever. I didn't answer the call. And then I find out through a friend that he literally just got sentenced to 15 years to life in prison for convicting murder. Wow. And this is like somebody who wanted to take my life. Like, it was, if you're on top of somebody strangling them, like, that happens so many times, you're going to die. Like, that's not, yeah, and, and, you know, the most dangerous time to leave, like, a domestic violence situation, or the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship is when you leave. Like, that is the most dangerous. So when people are like, oh, why didn't you just get out? Why don't you just leave? That is the most dangerous time for a victim, right? And I experienced that

in my marriage as well. Like, I was, we were rescued by police and by the grace of God. But After this, it was a month. Yeah, had filed the restraining order. I find out he gets convicted of murder. I'm in therapy. My therapist was a Christian. And he would like sew little seeds into me, you know, and like he would ask if he could pray for me. And I was like, I was open to all things spiritual. I was not. If you wanted to invite me to Catholic Mass, I'll go. You want to invite me to Buddhist temple? Yep, Mormon temple. Sure. I was like, I'll go to whatever because I was just desperately seeking truth when I was like in the occult and practicing all these types of things. And he tells me, you know, he would like pray for me and just whatever. And he says in that session after I find out he, he got sent to 15 years to life. My therapist says, oh, Jenny, like, this was God protecting you. And I was like, what do you mean? Like the love of my life, even though I like broke up with him for the 15th time, the love of my life is in prison. Like, we can never get back together. Like, that was my higher power. That was my God. Right. What you think about the most is your higher power. That's your God. That's your idol. And so I was kind of beside myself.

And my therapist was like, you need to go to a yoga retreat, which I'm not for yoga. I just want to make that clear. I got delivered. But, you know, back then, whatever. So that therapist is not for yoga anymore either. I don't think we've communicated since, which is so crazy. He's in my book too. But he was like, yeah, do a yoga retreat. I was like, I don't have any money. He's like, you need to get out of Orange County. Maybe do missions work. Maybe do missions work. Maybe do missions work. I'm like, oh, that's like the 12th step in a 12 step program, which I was a part of, right? So I was like, oh, missions work. That's like service work. I could do that. that might be a good idea. I go to a meeting that night. I talked to my Christian friend. Well, he had like one foot in the world, you know, one foot in Christianity. But he didn't like what I was doing. He's like, no, Jenny's into weird stuff. I need to like help get her out. So I see him that night at a meeting. And I was like, hey, Taylor, like my therapist wants me to do missions work. Isn't that cool? And he goes, Jenny, I did missions work in Hawaii for six years. I was like, Hawaii, get me out of California. I'll go to Hawaii, you know. And I'm still, you know, involved in the sex industry. and stuff like that. So I'm like, I can make my Hawaiian dreams come true, post cute bikini picks, like, whatever, the whole, like, vanity thing. And so I go to my friend Taylor's house, and he's like, I'll fill out your application for you. He fills it out for me. He says, they're going

to call you an interview. You tell them that you believe in Jesus. And I said, well, I do, like Christ's consciousness. He says, don't say that. Just say, you believe in Jesus. And I was like, why is this like some weird religious thing? He's like, no, all walks of life go here. No, they didn't. No, they didn't. But I was like, okay. So I talked to them on the phone. They interview me. They accept me for the internship. I raise all this money. Now I'm on my way to Hawaii.

And I'm like on the plane right there. I was like, my life is going to change. It sure as heck was. Not the way that I expected though, you know? I have a year. It was a year and a half into my sobriety, right? And I brought like my terror cards with me, my pendulum, my sage, my, like all the things. I had my Bible.

Totally tricked you too. He's like, oh, locks a life. It is fine. I know. And there are people from like different countries. Yeah. Everybody there is a Christian. So I get there.

I set up my little witchcraft altar above my bed, you know, and they were like, you know, Bible study starts tomorrow. I was like Bible study. And like the first half of every day was like learning about the Bible. And I was like, what the heck is this? I call my sponsor because I came for service work. Well, service work is on Tuesdays and it's on the Fridays and it's half day on Wednesday. And I was like, I came here to serve, you know, the homeless, feed the hungry and to work with

at-risk. youth. I didn't come here to learn about the prophets in the Bible. I don't even know what that means, you know, so I'm trying to convince people, reincarnation is real. You know, there's multiple ways to the top of the mountain. That whole spiel, everybody there is a Christian. I call my sponsor at the time, and I was like, Liz, this is worse than rehab. Like, I need to get the heck out of here. Like, can you pay for me? I don't even know if she had money. You know what I mean? But I was like, she has three years sober, so she knows more than I do. And she was like, no. Like, you raised all this money. The least you can do for your donors is stick it out. And I was like, are you joking? She hangs up the phone.

And I'm like pissed, you know. So the first like month and a half, I was trying to convince people, like, of the opposite of what the whole nonprofit is about. And I begin to have encounters with Jesus, multiple encounters that we probably don't have time to get into right now. But it was pretty radical. And a month and a half in, I gave my life to Jesus. And it was nothing that anybody else said or did. Like, there was no convincing of Christianity from other people for me. I don't care how much education you have. I don't care how many spiritual experiences you've had. Like, there was no convincing me.

I had to be convinced by the Spirit of God, which is the way the salvation works. So when we go out and we're like, oh, I got this person to get saved in a Walmart parking lot, did you just, like, force them to say a prayer? Because I've definitely done that. I've, like, brought somebody into salvation. I was like, that was not authentic at all. They just felt awkward and did what I said. there was not the Holy Spirit present.

You know what I'm saying? And yeah, so we could go off on a whole tangent on that. But I was on Molokai, the Hawaiian island of Molokai. We were doing an inner island outreach. And I was sitting in a church. And I heard a whisper. And it was like, you should get baptized. And I even, like, looked over my shoulder.

And then the pastor yells, God wants you to get baptized. And I was like, oh my gosh, I have to do. do this thing. And I have like purple hair and crystals around my neck and my altar above my bed. And I'm like have a shirt that says no life, no hope, no future. That was like one of my favorite shirts to wear at the time is like this tie-dye shirt I got in San Francisco. And with like beavis and butt head on it. Like, dude, dressed as Darya. I don't even know. You know. But that was like the state of my mind. And I run up to the pastor and my mentor there. I was like, I have to get baptized. I have to get baptized. And they were like, okay. But you're a witch. Yeah. And

And I literally gave my life to Jesus, get baptized, and it was incredible. Wow. Yeah. So that's how you came to Christ through being tricked to go on a Christian. A Christian nonprofit. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

And one thing I want to mention, too, is, and I go into it too in my book, is we had to do book reports there. I was like, what is this internship? They gave us one book. It was like a bunch of books and you could pick from it. And I was like, that book was boring. I don't understand anything that it talked about. Right. It was maybe some revivalist or theologian or something. I thought the book was boring. Had to do a page book report on it, turned it in. And then they said you could pick a second book of your like own like choosing. Just get it approved by staff. So I didn't have any money. Like I mean no money. Like I was had 50 cents for the shampoo at the like drugstore. Like I had no money. A lot of people came there with money. I didn't know what I was doing, obviously. Obviously. And. And I remember that this guy at a photo shoot, he was a Christian, and he actually like evangelized me. He was ministering to me. And I didn't know at the time. But he had told me about a book called The Witch Doctor and the Man, the City Under the Sea. This is not like a bestseller. This isn't even like a known book. But he was like, yeah, you can actually get it online for free. You can print it out.

I'll send you the website. And I was like, okay, because I'm talking to him about witchcraft. And he's like, I'm going to help this lady. So he tells me about this book, I forget about it. Then I'm in Hawaii. We have to do a book report. I don't have money. And then I remember, oh, there's this book online that I can read. They print it out, like front and back, 75 pages. And I read it. And it's this fourth generation witch doctor from Ghana Africa, who is about to receive the mantle from his witch doctor father, right, to become the witch doctor in the town. And he starts talking about just all the stuff that he had done. Like, by the time he was 10, he was infested with over like 10,000 demons, like crazy stuff, like in the bush in Africa.

And I'm reading this book and I'm fascinated. And then there's this one page where it talks about all the things of the devil. Now, I had done witchcraft. I didn't think I was worshipping the devil. I was like, I want to help you heal. I want to help me get what I want. Like it's me, me, me, me, me. I don't know that it's evil per se, right? So I can't hear anything from a white man on a pulpit. I don't know anything about your testimony. You watched porn once. Cool. Like, I don't care about that. Like, I couldn't receive from people like that back then. I was pretty, like, hardened and not open in that way. But a fourth generation witch doctor, I could hear what he had to say and receive it. So he lists all the things that are of the devil. Hari Krishna. Well, I worshipped Harry

Krishna. I was introduced to that temple at 10. I sort of going to the witchcraft or the, the Harikrishna temple at 10 years old with a friend. He lists Buddhism. Well, I practice Buddhism. He lists, you know, chakra healing and cleansing. I had done that. Crystal healing. He lists all these things. And I was like, done that, done that, done that. And they're all things of the devil. And I literally ran to the bathroom because I thought that I was going to vomit. I was so convicted. Didn't know what conviction was yet. But I was like, what is happening? So I had the encounter with the eyes of God where I have this fear of the Lord. I don't know what that means. I stopped doing certain witchcraft practices. Six months later, I'm in Hawaii. I'm reading this book. And I'm like, oh my gosh, all the stuff I'm

doing was evil and I didn't know and now I'm kind of understanding and then a month later I get saved. Like, it was just crazy. And then as soon as I got saved, I'm going under the bridge to tell people about Jesus. I'm going to Honolulu and telling every single person that like Jesus is real and this is what he does. I'm going to strip clubs. I'm going to bars. I'm going to raves. I'm going to, when I go back to California at the Venice Beach boardwalk, set up a table that says free readings because people go there for psychics. There's a ton of psychics. They cost 20. $25, come here and get a free reading. It's not a reading. I'm going to talk to you about the Holy Spirit. I'm going to pray for you and prophesy over your life. That was like in my first year of like coming to Jesus, you know? And then I fell back in a sin for those four years. But then I got delivered. And so now we've been like this with the Lord. But it's crazy, man. I could talk to you forever. Yeah. I really could. Your book, if I remember correctly, the Destiny Image was like, you got to make this a little shorter. But wasn't it? Wasn't it?

like longer and they asked you to whittle it down a little bit. And it's still a thick book. It's a very thick book. Yeah. But I mean, just talking with you today, it's like, yeah, there's, I mean, you have a whole life of ups and downs and, uh, story

to share. And I really hope that this conversation really enlighten people and help people, uh, maybe that are either in witchcraft. Yeah. Or coming, maybe even people coming out of witchcraft that, that's behind them, but there, there's a guilt that they have with it. Or there's torment because you haven't had deliverance.

Because that's a real thing, too. I was talking to Angela's Caffini about that and how, like, there's this thing, I guess if you're coming out of witchcraft into walking with Christ, the idea of deliverance is a little scary at times when you're first leaving that life because you're like, that seems like it's witchy. It can be for some, that wasn't my experience, but because I didn't make a deliverance appointment, I didn't know what it was. I went into that church to get prayer healing for my back. And then I got delivered. And then the Lord told me, you know, you need to go back for deliverance again. And we didn't even get into the second deliverance, which was I got delivered of a gatekeeper spirit, showed up at my house. I was in my notes too.

Yeah. So that's a pretty intense story, but very lengthy. People can read it in my book. Okay. Or come back and we could talk about it. But so for me, I didn't have that experience. So that being, oh, this seems witchy. I was just like, the Lord was like, follow me.

And I was like, okay. And that's where I was with that. And he was taking me through massive deliverance. And I felt like I was blind a lot of the time and in like a dark room, if you will. But all I had was the voice of God. And he was like, take a step. Go this way. That's all I had in my deliverance time.

You know? And then he was faithful. And he told me because my stuff was so extreme. Like I was passed on to the church was like, this is a lot. And I was doing all the right things. I just had a lot of demons. So I was passed on to a higher level, higher level exorcist.

And he walked me through him and his wife walked me through the next like 15 or so. But the Lord in his goodness and his mercy, he told me how long it would take and how many demons there were. Because I was like, this is a lot. God, like, am I doing something wrong?

He was like, nope. Like, keep with it. You know, and I got obviously massively delivered. That's awesome. Yeah. Tell people where they can get the book again, what it's called. Yeah.

And I will say this. I have a, through Destiny Image, I have a website called Slingshot Library. Yeah. And I'm going to put it on there as well for you go to get. Awesome. Go ahead and tell people about it. Yeah. You can find my book on Amazon. It's not on my website anymore, but you can go to my website, Jennyjoyhappy.com, which talks about, you know, the things that I'm doing, courses, deliverance, stuff like that. So I do have deliverance training courses. I have a whole course on where psychology meets demonology. So I talk about, because I do have a

psych background too. So I talk about different mental illnesses. and what demons are associated with that. Just because you have a mental illness doesn't mean like it's just a demon. There's demons connected to it, but there's also other things that need to be done with mind renewal, maybe fasting, getting support, things like that. So it's not always just a one size fits all for people. And yeah, all across the board, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, Jenny Joy, Happy. Yeah.

Yep. And you are happy. Yeah. You are happy. Yeah. The joy of the Lord. Yeah. It's awesome.

Well, I appreciate you coming out today. Thank you so much. It was awesome. Awesome. Yeah. You want to know? You sure you want to know? Too late. Confession.

Down we go. Rabbit hole. Lose control. UFOs. Big for those goals. Tell me what you saw. Let's go. Things get weird on this show.

Dark gets exposed when the light gets closed. Welcome to the confessionals. Mic check. One, two. What followed you? Red, red eyes. Tree line. Bro.

That thing flew. Lights in the sky. Nobody know three knocks outside don't open that door wait you said it had wings keep talking Big big big big big big big big big foot dog man Nephilem yeah something in the air orbs portals things unseen everybody thinks it's crazy till they lose control UFOs big foot portals goes tell me what you saw on this show dark gets exposed when the light gets closed welcome to the confessionals watch a giants ancient rebellion secret room strange intelligence black helicopters lights overhead government says ain't nothing there okay sure then what was that Follow the LLLLLLiverance, kingdoms collide Dark ones the spotlight truth doesn't hide Demas won fear, deception wants fame

But everything changes a Jesus name Yeah, rabbit hole lose control UFOs, big foot portals, ghost Tell me what you saw, let's go And that's when things get weird