The Confessionals - 907: The Hidden Hierarchy of Darkness That Most Christians Never Learn About

Episode Date: October 20, 2026

What if the most terrifying forces in this world operate through a kingdom we've barely begun to understand? Tony Merkel sits down with Alexander Pagani and Pastor Fred Price Jr. to uncover what they believe is a hidden hierarchy within the kingdom of darkness. Their startling interpretation of Jesus' confrontation with Legion raises unsettling questions about what was really happening that day. As firsthand accounts of deliverance reveal a disturbing side of the supernatural, the possibility of spiritual forces holding authority over entire regions becomes impossible to ignore. This powerful discussion challenges everything we think we know about spiritual warfare while revealing why the authority of Jesus Christ is greater than the darkness.If you’re able, consider helping the Merkel family with medical expenses by donating to Lindsay’s GoFundMe: https://gofund.me/b8f76890📕 Order Tony's Book: https://a.co/d/0bJS3SaV🎥 Tony Merkel YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@tony.merkel🌐 Visit: tonymerkel.com📰 Subscribe to Our Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/newsletterBecome a member for ad-free listening, extra shows, and exclusive access to our social media app: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinThe Confessionals Social Network App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZThe CounterS2 EP1 (Witchcraft): WATCH HERETony's Recommended Reads: slingshotlibrary.comIf you want to learn about Jesus and what it means to be saved: Click HereMerkel Media Apparel: merkmerch.comAlexander Pagan:Website | YouTube | BookFred Price Jr.:Instagram | YouTube | BookSPONSORSGHOSTBED: GhostBed.com/tonyQUINCE: quince.com/tonyRUMBLE WALLET: https://rumblewallet.onelink.me/bJsX/ConfessionalsCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] ADDRESS:Merkel Media6726 Morganton RdP.O. Box #08Greenback, TN 37742SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcastTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelReddit: reddit.com/r/theconfessionals/Discord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hProduced by: @jyorkofficialOUTRO MUSICTony Merkel - Down The Rabbit HoleAvailable on Spotify

Hey, everyone. Thank you so much for praying for my wife, Lindsay, as she overcomes breast cancer. She's been improving greatly, and we just continue to ask for you to pray for her in the name of Jesus. Thank you very much. Merkel. Media. This was all circulating around the base that a giant had been killed, but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, boning fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And he starts running and

firing up this giant. With a giant move, he's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast, and spears Dan holds him up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face, they basically decapitated. Got prices, he got about 15 yards away. for me. I've raised that 12 days and I blow this head off. I feel something pulling at my leg and I look over and there are two small. Reach my hand into this bush and I touch air. Couldn't breathe and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. Welcome to the show, everybody you're listening to The Confessionals podcast. I'm your host Tony Merkle.

Thanks for being here. If you got something you want to talk to me about on the show, a story you'd like to share. Go ahead and shoot us an email. My email address is contact at the Confessionals podcast. That's contact at the confessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, the confessionalspodcast.com. Hit the contact section and you can reach me that way as well. Other words for me, just get a hold of me. If you want more shows on a weekly basis, we got you covered. Every Thursday, we come out with a members only exclusive.

And when you become a member to the confessionalspodcast.com, you get that Thursday episode, all the prior Thursday member episodes and all the future member episodes. I have never released a member episode to the public. I'm not saying I'm never going to do it, but I have zero plans to do it anytime soon. So we have hundreds of episodes that nobody's ever heard unless you're a member to the confessionalspodcast.com. So if that interests you, go to the website, theconfessionalspodcast.com, hit the join button, see you on the other side.

All right, friends, listen, murkmerch.com has a lot of great stuff. The coffees, the mugs, the stickers, the hoodies, the hats, all available to people right now atmerch.com. We have really cool designs coming soon, some winter designs that I'm very good. excited about. Once it's ready, I'm going to rock it continuously. Look forward to that, guys, but everything's there at Merkmerch.com. All your swag in one place, murkmerch.com. I'm going to be at Signs in the Heavens Conference this weekend on October 23rd through the 25th, me, Alan Dewe and Larry Ragland at Revival Nation Church. We are doing a conference there. This is a free conference.

That's right. You heard it right. Free. There is no charge. All you got to do is click the link. in the description below and register so we know how many people are coming and what to expect. But it is not a charged event. This is a free event at Revival Nation. We're talking about disclosure at Signs in the Heavens Conference, me, Alan DeDio, and Larry Ragland. I hope to see you guys there this weekend. And guess what? Little bonus, October 23rd, this Friday. It's also my birthday. I'm turning 41. So come and celebrate my birthday with me at Revival Nation. We'll talk and disclosure at Signs in the Heavens Conference. Let's go. All right. And last but not least, my book, friends, it's been out for a couple weeks. And thank you very much for everybody who has been purchasing the book, posted pictures online. I've been sharing them as much as I can. The guys have been sharing them. It's just been overall a great experience. If you purchase the book on Amazon, please go ahead and write a five-star rating review. That helps a lot. People see that people enjoy the book and it inspires them to purchase a book. And this book, I believe, is going to impact people's lives. I've already gotten reviews of that very thing, how at the end of the book, especially the messaging that's there,

is very encouraging for people. That's what my goal was, and I'm glad it's landing like that for people. Thank you very much to everybody who's been supporting me on this journey of writing a book. Was not on my agenda, but here we are today. I am now a published author. So go ahead and check it out. Link in the description below if you've not got your copy yet. Thank you very much in advance. Okay, so today we have Fred Price Jr. and Alexander Pagani here in studio for a powerful conversation about deliverance, spiritual warfare, and the unseen kingdom of darkness. discuss their personal journeys into deliverance ministry, the hierarchy of demonic powers,

the distinction between demons and fallen angels, and how spiritual strongholds can influence individuals, churches, and entire regions. Let's get to this conversation with Fred Price Jr. and Alexander Paghani right now. All right, today we have Fred Price Jr. in studio and Alexander Pagani. How you guys doing? Doing good. You know, every time I open a conversation, it's the same thing, and I always realized it's weird. Like, we just got done talking for like, hour. I'm like, hey, nice to meet you guys. I'm glad you're here. So the way this conversation kind of came together is you two had a conversation. And then, Begani, you called me, are you somebody in a voice memo? You're like, listen. I just remember the seriousness. Yeah,

the seriousness. And there's like, if you ever want to do a discussion on just demons, like the, yeah. And then I remember in the, and it wasn't a long voicemail, a voice memo, but in there, you were like, not aliens, demons. It's like, no taking, you know? But I just, anytime I get a chance to talk about these things, especially with guys like you, I want to jump at the opportunity because you guys can jump into the wheelhouse that I've built for many years. But what's so important for me these days is the idea of the redemptive angle, the glorification of the Lord. Because before we were just talking here, I was mentioning what my history was with the show.

And I didn't have any guidance and people to show me like, how do you take acknowledging darkness and what's really happening and then bridge it to the redemptive power of Christ? Like when you, and for me, saying it out loud, it feels almost like simple. But when you're not, when you don't have anybody around you building you up, you're kind of like, and it's this wilderness on your own. And you're trying to figure things out in the middle of the enemy's whispering a year that you're doing something wrong. You're messing up. And so you're just internal conflict alone. Right. And now I find myself in a position where I can talk about these things with guys who are intelligible.

They understand these aspects of what we walk through spiritually. And then we're all on the same page. That's not like that's not the thing that we walk around fearing and focusing on. It's a reality of the world we live in. And there's a greater power and authority that redeems us all. So I guess what we'll do is we're just going to open up this conversation on the topic of the demonic. your book is coming out the 6th of October, discerning the demonic. And so maybe what we'll do is we'll start with that, the motivation behind the book,

and then we'll let that kind of conversation start unfolding. So discerning the demonic, is that something that you started writing because you started seeing a need of maybe people calling everything demons? Because I kind of tend to feel like I fall into that category at times. And I even joke around when I'm like the last sermon. It's like a little demon slayer. Yeah. Welcome to the club.

I joked around. I officially christened you in. All of them. I feel the power. I, the last sermon I preached, I even said something like, I hear you saying there's not a demon under every rock, but sometimes I feel like there might be. You know, because like when you start acknowledging the tactics of the enemy, you realize that onslaught is never ending. Well, let me, let me jump into with that thought. You know, it's something that I say consistently since I've gone into the deliverance ministry.

And it's this. I'd rather search for a demon and find. mind none, then say something is not a demon, and it actually really is a demon. So, you know, with that mindset, I would prefer to go searching for it and become maybe sometimes semi-demon conscious, because what's the most that can happen if I find that there's nothing demonic there? Nothing. Nothing's going to happen.

But I sit here and say, oh, well, that might be a counting issue, or maybe that might be a medicinal issue, you know, go get some professional help, which I'm not against that. And then their root of their problem is really a malevolent entity that's there. I'd rather take the risk of being a little bit. So I lean toe was more of being semi-demon conscious and then find out, okay, there's nothing there. Okay, to move on, thank God. Let's go into the next phase, counseling,

or maybe some professional help, then say something is not there. And I think that the Christian church has taught me to be like that. So when I hear you sharing in the opening, it was the same for me because for many years, let's just say this right here. Before the pandemic came,

it really was just us. You know, it was just Pagani. and maybe some of the more famous ministries doing deliverance, you know, like Bob Lars and maybe TB Joshua and others, you know, that were more televised, but it really was just us and maybe one or two others. So we were alone also. I had no help. There was no culture.

I didn't know who to go to. I'm not saying that they weren't out there. I just, that information was not readily available to us because there was no internet or like Facebook or whatever. So I had to kind of learn stumbling my way in. So I understand exactly. what you're talking about, feeling like you're the only one in your field for a long time, just trying to figure things out.

And that was us for many years. Yeah, I was stumbling my way through things, man. And that's why, like, I look back on things. I'm like, man, I'm so thankful God can redeem all things. Because, man, did I do some things wrong? I feel like, you know? Early days, I'm like, I don't want nobody to know all the mess ups. But actually, I incorporated a lot of those, you know, those trial and error phases into

most of all of our five bucks that we've written. Yeah. I threw it in there so that way they don't have to make the same mistakes that we made. So, Fred, with you, how, listen, your dad started the church with you guys, and you grow up in ministry. I'm not sure, I'm not the most familiar with, like, the ins and outs of the ministry you grew up under. But where does the whole idea of acknowledging the complexities of the demonic realm start with you? Was it within the ministry, or was there, like, some kind of thing that was, like, gnawing at you that that kind of got you looking into things when it comes to understanding the

complexities that is the spiritual realm. Yes, because I'm a nerd. My father, he taught on demons and he believed we had authority over them, you know, through Jesus. But his bread and butter was faith, prayer, family. Like, he focused on those things. When I got called to the ministry, actually, when I got ordained and I started to, to fill in for him, like when he was absent. Maybe he had a speaking engagement.

He'd go out of town, vacation, and I'd fill in. I started trying to find myself as far as a pastor and a teacher. Like, am I just going to replicate everything my father does and says, or am I going to find a lane that's my own? And so about the tail end of 2003, I came across the writings of Clarence Larkin. And Clarence Larkin wrote this book called Dispensational Truth. He wrote another one called Spirit World. And these books were so detailed on the heavenly hierarchy, celestial creatures, even the distinction, because I was always taught that demons were just fallen angels.

And so I just went with that. Clarence Larkin exposed that as lazy theology. And he pointed to a different origin. And it made sense to me. And so that's really what started me going down the rabbit hole of studying demons and other things. So that's where it began. Like I said, I've been a geek my entire life. So I figure, well, if I'm geeking out for Marvel, if I'm geeking out for DC,

and now I'm really serious about the Word of God at this point of my life, let me geek out for the word. Let's see what the word actually says about certain things that oftentimes we hear is just manmade traditions, things that really aren't founded or supported with any kind of scripture. And so that really began my journey. What was the, like, moment for, and this is the question for, for any of you guys, really. Like, you're looking at things and you're coming to these understandings. There's got to be, because I know for me, just with what I do,

there's been countless moments where I can see literally the enemy working in the situation. And so you're doing these studies and stuff and you're growing. And I, like, and you both have different roadmaps on how you got to where you're at. But in that process of that journey, you start seeing things different, right? Was there like ever a moment that one, you start seeing things different and you're like, wow, this is, I'm identifying this as what it is. And was that even like, what was that even like? Like, it's, I sit back and I constantly, I'm introspective on so much stuff.

And I'm like, man, am I overreacting? Am I looking into this too much? Is this me, Tony, thinking this? Or is this actually what's happening, you know? Like, was there inward struggles through that journey with both you? Because you both kind of have this journey of, I hate to say it this way, but discovering the demonic. Like, I think that happens with a lot of people where you kind of like, you're walking in

the faith and you're almost walking in ignorance at times as to like literally how much of an onslaught there is on our lives. And then as you start discovering this stuff and you start seeing it, you start feeling like, is this just me because I'm looking into it and it's not really actually happening or what? Does it make sense what I'm trying to confess? I don't care who says what, but what's interesting. What's interesting in many of your viewers might not know is that I embraced the ministry of deliverance as a pastor. I preached against the ministry of deliverance for many years as a pastor as well. So I did Tuesday night Bible studies anti the Ministry of Deliverance, you know, because my

Pentagon, I come from hyper-Pentecostalism, you know, or we would say classical Pentecostalism, but then, like, a fringe of, like, the immense, like, extremely hyper-legalistic version of that, like women wearing pants, you go to hell, men must shape their face. You have to wear a suit in a tie when you... So you're an active rebellion to that.

I say the same thing. I'm like, I guess I'm an open rebellion here, you know. But, you know, so I encountered or rediscovered that... Well, we're not, like, discovering anything. You know what I'm saying? We're like rediscovering something because the treasure has always been in the field. You know, and the guy that's walking on the field stumbles upon it, but the treasure was already there. You see what I'm saying?

That's one of the parables, right? You know, for me it was experience, you know, because I couldn't get past the theology of deliverance. You know, I needed deliverance. You know, I had the fastest growing church in the Bronx. I was a denominational church at the time also. You know, I had taken over my father-in-law's church. My wife is a P.K. Right?

And then we had the introduction to the internet. So when I first started passing, there was no internet. You know, we were walking, there was no cell phones. We were walking around with pagers and beepers, see what I'm saying? But now with the cell phone in the common man's hand and internet on the phone, the landscape, the spiritual landscape of our church changed. Not everyone, almost all the men were addicted to pornography. In my time, to watch porn, you had to go to like the local bodega,

go to the back of the store and you had to be over 18 years old, and you were lucky enough, the guy would let you watch it if you were young, right? So it was very hidden. Now it's on your phone. And I watched the landscape of our church just drastically change overnight. And I did the normal, what pastors normally do in moments like that. And there's nothing wrong with this. I made the church fast more.

I made the church pray more. You know, people came up to me and were telling me their deepest, darkest struggles in the area of sexual perversion. And I was like, brother, that's not a demon. That's you. You need to pray more, brushing people off.

And you need to go over there and sit, or I would just trip people. You need to sit down then. And yeah, maybe those disciplines of the Christian church, you don't want to remove those things. You know what I'm saying? They're helpful.

But the book of Colossians chapter two talks about that taste not, touch not. It actually controls and modifies behavior, but it doesn't remove the passion of the heart. It actually talks about that. And finally, I started battling my own struggle.

I was talking in tongues on Sunday and then I was angry and punching walls on Sunday night, you know what I'm saying? And then coming to church and then so my family was like terrorized at home because I had like this deep anger issue. And finally I had a moment where I was like, Lord, I need help and how do I help these people? And the Holy Spirit told me deliverance. And I told the Holy Spirit no. I did a, I did a Simon on the roof in the house of Simon de Tanner. I said, Lord, I'm not going to, nothing unclean has touched my lips, right? But then desperation kicked in.

And this is what I said. I said, Lord, I don't believe in this deliverance stuff. But I think I need deliverance. I'm going in that direction, Lord. If it's not you, you need to stop me because I've tried everything else. I don't know how to help the congregation. I don't know.

I help myself. And I got free. So mine was more. I encountered the beauty of the liberty of being set free. And then when you're set free, that religious filter gets taken off. And now I was free to explore. more the theology of deliverance. So it took me about 10 years to embrace the theology of us.

I didn't like become a demon slayer overnight. I just encountered freedom and I began to allow the Holy Spirit to work in the church in regards to that. And we started going like seeing a moment of deliverance. And then as I was like, okay, God, you need to show me this in the word. And then over time, the Holy Spirit began to show it to me. And then I had an epiphany. We're like, okay, there is such a thing as the ministry of deliverance, Isaiah 61. Then I wholeheartedly dived in because I saw it Theologically, and then everything changed. And then here we are. You know, five bestselling books and movie come out in Jesus' name and spiritual warfare

Bible and everything, you know. But I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, like, jump into that. It was the experience. Hold on, saying, Jack, that Bible right there, the thick book right there. Hold up, hold up. Is that yours? Yeah, that's the new one. That's yours?

If it's the newest one, we're in. Okay. You just got this? No, I've had it here for a while. No, no, that's it. I've not here for a while. It was said to me. I think Christmas had to me.

No, no, no. This might be the old, the older one. Myself and all the demon slayers, the revised edition. But it depends how long ago you got this one. If this is the newest one, then we're in it. Okay. Excerpts of my book and all of our books are in the new revised version of the spiritual warfare Bible. But, yeah, it's actually, if this is this, this is this man.

Wow, that's crazy. Yeah. Okay. So we didn't start out like that. But to have God put us now, like, immortalize us into this. spiritual off of their Bible. I'm really grateful. I'm actually, it makes me humble.

Yeah. I'm saying because I'm not worthy. No, none of us are. What about you? I mean, I don't even remember what the question I had asked. How do we get into a ministry of deliverance? Yeah, that's what? Like, what was that process for you, you know?

Because it's like, even with the church, I mean, it's, I imagine it's got to be different at some point because it's like there's this, like, legacy that's being carried on. You know, did you ever feel like the route you were going was maybe going to, I don't know, like alter the direction that the church was on or what, as far as your own personal studies? Or did it just kind of seamlessly happen? I think a little bit of both. Yeah. And I think one of the benefits of having the two of us together having this conversation, he's the, he's the demon slayer. Like, this is application.

he's like active in the field with it. I'm more like a coach. I've encountered demons nowhere near as many as him. But I want saints to be equipped. Like I want I want saints to know what they're facing. And I want them to understand spiritual warfare. I want them to understand that the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, a mighty and God for the pulling down a strongholds,

that we wrestle not against flesh and blood. Like I want them to know it and I want them to understand it because a lot of believers they know the word but they don't necessarily understand what they know so in the early days of the ministry my father had a similar experience where as a matter of fact he was like the only game in town at a certain point in the early 70s going into the 80s so it's not just the fastest growing you know black a megachurch it was like the only one or one of the only ones at the time since it's birthed and spawned so many other ones directly or indirectly.

Man, and in those days, like, I would hear stories. My sisters, my mother would tell me stories when my dad was still here, present in the earth with me. He would even tell me certain stories of demon-possessed people coming in, which is trying to interrupt the service.

I mean, he dealt with a lot of that stuff early on in the ministry. By the time I showed up, I didn't see too much of that. But, again, because of his, in a sense, biblical and spiritual core competencies that allowed me to go down different paths. And so demons happen to be one of those paths where I said, I want to be as

equipped biblically as I possibly can on this subject matter. And Lord, since you've called me, not only to the office of the pastor, but to the office of the teacher, then I'm going to make in my aim to teach your people proper theology as it relates to demons. And so that's really how it started with me. And yeah, at a certain point, I realize the ministry that God is giving me is going to be a little bit different than what he gave my father. Like the teaching component is still there, but my father strategically targeted certain areas. I'm for those areas. I touch on those areas, but clearly that's not my lane because I've been on this journey, demons, and similar and associated subject matter for like 22 years. I've been

on this for for a long time. So yeah, I mean, it's, I've enjoyed it. It's, it's, it's, it's, It's not without his challenges, but again, my main goal equipping saints in this specific area. Well, I mean, I think even the, so your life is a great testament to what I'm about to say. This past Sunday, our church celebrated 128 years in existence. It started, they can trace it back as far as, I think, 1898. And from the time it started at a time now, those people moved on, new people came in, culture changed, and the church survived all these different eras because as time goes on, the church needed to become what the culture needed,

right? And so, like, what started, you think what in the 70s you said with your dad? 73. 73. I wasn't even thought of yet. But like what started with your dad was for a culture. then as we move forward the culture changes the world changes the spiritual warfare changes and what we're seeing today i'm a firm believer i know i'm sitting at a table with highly respected minds but i don't care what you say the spiritual warfare that is manifesting today is far greater than i think what our parents had in the past it and maybe maybe it maybe it's not even greater as much as it's manifesting in ways that has not been experienced before in recent history. And I personally believe it's because

we're coming to a point where the show is happening. It's going to go down and the masks are coming off. And I think that's what we're seeing now. It is like I'm not, I've only been to California one time, never been to L.A. But I've seen videos of L.A. And I've seen videos and I've lived in the Philly area. And when I look at the people on the streets, there is clearly a principality and they're manifesting something that has them on lock. And when I visually look at it, I see two different ones. And I use L.A. specifically in this example with Philly. You got the fentanyl problem in North Philly, right? That obviously opens up demonic oppression, possession, and you have the drug issues in L.A., Skid Row.

The people out there, when you watch them on video, they look, they all are doing the same thing. And Philly, they're all doing the same thing. But when you compare the two videos, they don't look the same. And that's when I started thinking, I'm thinking we're dealing with different principalities. You got a principality over L.A. You've got a principality over Philly. And that's stuff that I think our previous generations typically were not ready to even discuss or thinking about. And now I think it's becoming the focal point within the culture because it's manifesting and we have to tackle it.

All right. Let's take a second and talk about our sponsor, which is Quince. You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself wearing on repeat, the sweater that goes with everything, the perfect pair of pants or the tea that somehow always you reach for first. Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy and that's what Quince does best. Quince focuses on high quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% monkey. Mongolian cashmere organic cotton. The styles are timeless, versatile, and designed to become the dependable pieces you wear

each and every day of your life. There are 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters start just at $60, giving you the softness and the quality you'd expect from a luxurious brand without the luxury price tag. And when the temperatures start to drop, Quince makes it easy to build on those everyday staples

with premium down jackets and classic wool outside. Outwear, versatile layers designed to keep you warm and comfortable all season long. I just got this charcoal, cotton, knitted overshirt that's super soft, comfortable to wear. You'll be seeing it coming to an episode very, very soon. But you know what? I didn't want to stop there. I wanted to get my little girl something too, and we got her.

Well, let me suppose it this way. I didn't get her anything because ain't nobody wanting me picking out her clothes. My wife went, got her this organic cotton, long sleeve knitted dress. She loves it. It's tan. It brings out the beautiful color in her eyes. And it's high quality. She loves it. I love it right there at Quince. It was an awesome price. Only $22. And it got her looking purdy for church on Sunday. Listen, you and your family can look purty too for church on Sunday. All you got to do is find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to Quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now, available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know it was the confessionals. It's the best way to support the show.

Now let's get to the show right now. I think one of the reasons why they were unaware of the things that you're talking about is because I guess, and maybe my brother could get into this as well, I think the religious spirit, you know, in the church, we've been taught bad theology for a very, very, very long time. Let me just say this. I just recently, maybe within the last six or seven years, got out of that there is as crazy as the sounds, as into deliverance that I was, that there was a distinction of that fallen angels, morning stars, watchers, I was more caught up with the summation of all of them into one category. Demons, fallen angels are the same. I just embraced not too long ago.

Maybe, I would say seven years ago that demons are the disembodied spirits of the Nephlam. And you can like, doctrinally find that. And I'm like, where have I been? And I'm doing deliverance. Wow. You know, so I was doing deliverance. And I've had hundreds. I think at this point, we've done thousands.

You know what I'm saying? One-on-one sessions. You know what I'm saying? I got like a lot of it on video documentation is all out there. And I'm, and for some reason, God met me in my place of ignorance. So now when I'm like, when I bring. broke away from that version of, you know, the demonic, it opened up a whole new ocean for me. And I plunged into that.

Like, where was Dr. Michael Heiser when I was in Bible school? If I would have read his book on demons when I was in Bible school, I'd be a lot more further and farther along in my understanding of the demonic. So I was more in it through application, which is why he said he was more in it through the theology of it. So I'm just like, I don't know about all of that. Let's just put me in the streets and let's just cast out demons and I'm doing it. And I'm seeing results and demons are coming out and they know who I am and I know who you are. And I'm in, you know, so this is why I get so frustrated because I'm like, I feel like the things that the church is either still blind to because I still, I'm encountering me in others when I'm talking to them about the demonic. And I'm consistently saying this, you sound like me 10 years ago.

You sound like me 10 years ago. Yeah. And I had the city, I say, look at this, look at this, look at that. And they go, they do what I do. They'll go, hold on. I need to go. I got to circle back to that. I need a minute.

I need a minute. And then they process and they come back and I go, you were right. So I think it's because of a lack of knowledge. But the next verse, they rejected knowledge. I think it's what we are dealing with is Matthew chapter 23, where Jesus rebuked the Pharisees. And I'm not saying those who oppose the ministry of deliverance are Pharisees. But I'm saying he said something. He said, you're the gatekeepers.

with the keys. And you're shutting up the kingdom of God. You don't let nobody go in and you don't go in. So I think what's happening is there's this intentional, purposeful agenda from hell to keep the church ignorant into the deeper things of the kingdom so we could go away from what Hebrews, the author of Hebrew says, going away, moving on, away from the elementary things of the doctrines of Christ into some more of the deeper things. I think it's intentional, you know what I'm saying?

most of the Christian church I think that statement right now of demons are not fallen angels I think they're already shaking in their boots just listening to me say that no it's not the same you know what I'm saying and it makes total sense on why they're like don't send us down there

we've never been there we don't come from there you know what I'm saying like Matthew 5 I'm like how have I been reading this but go ahead so I think that's the issue I think they just don't know what they don't know I agree. I don't know how to say it better.

I say amen to that. That is so true. Bad theology or lazy. You just, you heard something and you just accepted it. You didn't dig into it for yourself. That was me at one point. Demons are fallen angels. But when you learn that they're not, then you also learn that the kingdom of darkness, the landscapes more detailed.

It informs you then that, oh, okay, the battle's a bit large. than what I thought. But it also allows you to pinpoint and target the word at certain entities within the kingdom of darkness. I mean, the name of Jesus brings fear to all of these entities, but you cast demons out. You don't cast angels out. But angels are higher ranking than demons. Say it. So while he's in the field casting out a demon, he may also have to address a principality that is leaving.

in a sense a squadron of demons. Right. Because they're like grunt workers. Right. Because there's ranking in the kingdom of darkness. Right. There's order. And Jesus confirmed that in Matthew 12.

Right. When the Pharisees, here we go, bringing them up again. But they said, and it even speaks to the kingdom of God. They said, he casts out demons by the power of Bielzebub. Now, most people say, oh, he's simply saying another name for Satan. No, Beelzebub was an Echranite Philistine deity. who worked for Satan, submitted to the authority of Satan. All false gods, fallen angels.

And they say, they say, he cast out demons for the power of Beelzebub. He said, no, that's not quite right. Because if Satan casts out Satan, his kingdom can't stand. Then eventually he says, but if you cast out demons by the finger of God or by the Holy Spirit, he says what, surely the kingdom of God. kingdom, kingdom has come upon you. So casting out demons, that's the kingdom of God in action. Right, right.

So any church that says, oh, we're kingdom church, and they're not actively or at least attempting to have an outreach of the ministry of deliverance is false advertisement. Because Jesus said in Matthew 12, the initial sign that the kingdom of God has arrived is the expelling of demons, which is preceded by the next verse. Since that is the initial sign to sit here and go against that, you're actually in risk of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which means that you know without a shadow of a doubt, this is the kingdom of God here. See what I'm saying?

It's the only thing done in the New Testament that was not actually done in the Old Testament. Healing's done in the Old Testament. Miraculous things with the weather patterns, Elijah, Jesus done before. Right? Multiplication, Moses did that manner. Expelling of demons, which is why the next verse says, you know, if you could black, you could even go against the son of man. They'll be forgiven. But if you go against the Holy Spirit, blasphemers you know, there's no forgiving.

you know without a shadow of a doubt that this is the working of the kingdom of God on the earth is the extracting and the expelling and the removing of demonic entities. See what I'm saying? So it's all, now keep in mind, this is all fresh, even in many spiritual warfare,

the circuit, because remember, a lot of the spiritual warfare is usually coming out of some sort of splinter group from some classical denomination, right? And even with them, there's spillage, there's overlaps.

So they're doing deliverance, but they're doing deliverance from a premise of maybe a religious template that's there. So then now what I think God is doing is he's awakening up theologians. You know what I'm saying? I think the teaching anointing is at the highest. I think it's the primary grace that's out, I think. You know what I'm saying? Why?

Because many will depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons in the latter times. So that means there's teachings that come from demons. How do you oppose that? Proper teachings. So I think the thrust is the apologists. in different scopes of scripture. And I think deliverance as well, or spiritual warfare also God is raising up those

who can look deeper. Like, let me piggyback to what he said about fallen angels. When I hear people sometimes come up to me and they say, Lucifer came in my house, I'm like, you're not that important. You're not that important for Lucifer to come up. Second, fallen angels primarily work with people of high rank in office somewhere

that they can influence others. this. They're not inhabiting Sister Sally. That's actually not even, that's a carnal Christian in some church not doing anything. But they really believe this stuff. Bad theology. They legitimately believe

that stuff. Satan astrojected in my room. And I'm like, okay, so what are you doing the kingdom? And they go, no, I don't really do much in my church. So Satan himself has come in your room and is literally bothering you himself. They really believe it. Now, I'm not saying that He don't do that at time.

It's not, you know, be rigid here. But I'm saying when you understand what we're talking about, the hierarchy, thrones, dominions, dominions, principalities, powers. Then you understand that there's jurisdiction. Then you understand permission to do, permission not to do. Then what our role is, binding and loosing. Then you go, okay.

And then your worldview of spiritual warfare kind of changes and you move kind of differently. But it all starts with theology. we have to, which is why I called you about his book. I know we're here to talk about my book a little bit, but his book, you know, angels, demons, I was like, I should have read this before I wrote my book, you know what? That's amazing. It's amazing.

It's amazing. Him and I are going to record next after this for his book. So you guys are talking about the kingdom. And, you know, I think it's really important for us to do what you. you guys are doing and it's acknowledging the kingdom structure. It is not a simplistic thing. And this is something I've come to a conclusion of because of the uniqueness of what I do, talking to tons of people from different aspects of life, their experiences to people like yourselves who have studied and teach. I can't get away from the reality that the kingdom

of darkness is called a kingdom because of the structure, the order, the principality, the regional principalities. Like, this is not just like you have Satan, you have his demons, and they're bad guys. You know, we're talking about generals and warfare. And I think, like, you see Christ when he's doing his teachings, constantly talking the kingdom of God, the kingdom of God, the kingdom of God. And it's like, why does he keep saying kingdom of God? It's because there's a kingdom of darkness that the king of the kingdom.

with God is at war with. And it's not simple. And the more we look at things, the more we see that. The fallen angel side of stuff, you know, first of all, let me just say this. So what's the perspective then? So somebody says, Satan, actually, this is actually a good question because I want this to be like the sequel to what you just said for grace sake. Somebody comes and says, Satan has been harassing me, harassing me, coming and visiting me. I would say, are they, are you saying that it's not happening or what they believe to be Satan is a different principality within the kingdom of darkness? What I believe to be happening there is that they might not necessarily understand what's actually happening in regards to like the kingdom of darkness. and what and who is actually attacking them.

We cannot cast out what we don't know actually exists. But, yes, Satan can be a function. Hasatan is an office, right, prosecutor, you know. So we don't want your viewers and listeners to kind of get caught up in, you know, lost in the origin of words. Okay, so primarily they all fall under Satan. So if a believer doesn't know, they don't know. So come out, Satan in Jesus' name.

that might not necessarily be Satan. Whatever's there, Holy Spirit's going to enforce it, the demon's going to come up. Let's not get legalistic here in regards to that. Because sometimes our heroes could get a little bit legalistic. And I don't know what to say. Is it this? Is this marine spirit?

Like, just cast the devil out. You know what I'm saying? But what we're saying is that we need to mature in our understanding in regards to how we view and interact with the kingdom of darkness because we are in warfare. So we have to move beyond, you know, like, I'm not going to say our Sunday school type of teaching for it, but I would say a westernized version of Christianity

and get more an eastern version of it and understand the hierarchy, thrones. Like, spiritual warfare, the average Christian would say Ephesion 6. There's more. Colossians 1 talks about it. Oh, yeah. That's a whole other ballgame there. That's not principality, power, rule of darkness.

Armor of God, that's Ephesion 6. Then there's Colossians chapter 1. Then there's a whole other group of sentient beings that we have no explanation for. You got 24 elders. These are not just like abstract theories. These are sentient living being. Then you got the living creatures, you know,

which the author doesn't even know what species they are. So he just called them creature. Normally the author would write, he looked like a jackal, look like this, look like that. He had no point of reference. He said they looked like a creature, full living creatures. See what I'm saying?

Then you got serf him. See what I'm saying? So it makes better warfare in understanding these different, the different, categorization of the demonic, not for the sake of becoming a brainiac to it, but to do effective warfare. Right.

An example would be like this. So how tormenting it would be if somebody legitimately believes that Lucifer himself is attacking them? That's tough. That is tormenting. But when you find out, oh, that's a little imp spirit. Then you're like, oh, wait, wait, wait, get out my house in Jesus' name. Now, if you're thinking the morning. star, a son of the morning, Lucifer is in your room, that might strike a little fear in someone

to go, can I do battle here? I don't know. See, like, no, but when you understand, if I got a headache, it's not Bayal attacking me in my headache, man, it's something else, you know what I'm saying? So it allows us to be able to understand just the rules of engagement, but it's not mandatory, but I would say to be more efficient and effective, I would say. Learn the kingdom of darkness. Don't be obsessed with it. Just learn about it. And then you'll know. So now when people come up to me for deliverance,

sometimes I have to say, brother, stop. That is not this type of spirit. You're tackling this. Easy fix. Like a doctor. A doctor would say, because you know when you get a headache

and you have to go to a doctor, the first thing is like, oh my God, I got a brain aneurysm or something. We go to the extreme. People needing deliverance are the same. They will go and default to the extreme. So it's the same.

The doctor will go, Mr. Pagani, you can calm yourself down. it's really this. Take this, you'll be fine. I think I've been having to do that lately. I'll have to say, brother so-and-so, no, that's not that.

It's really this. You've been reading your word? You spend the time in prayer? Okay, go to your house, anoint this, command the thing to leave, it'll leave in Jesus' name. But in my mind, I'm going,

man, like, how long have you been, oh, I've been dealing with this for six months. That means six months of ignorant torment. Yeah. I'm sorry, guys. Like, we have to get the body of Christ to the level where there are people dealing with

kingdom psychosis. Like, they're thinking that something is, and it really isn't. See what I'm saying? But their mind is saying that because, and it goes back to bad theology. They've been inundated with social media videos on Marine Spirit, this. I believe in Marine Spirit and Octopus Spirit that. I do all of that.

Sometimes it's not. Most of the time it's actually not that. It's not that. You know? So that's why when I read his book, I was like, finally somebody gets it. Other than myself and I one or two, few others. Because the church will fight you on it. No, demons are fallen angels. They will fight you on it. And they will lose a relationship with you as a result of that. Sure will. Yeah. Yeah. Going back to Matthew 12. Yeah. So Jesus says, they said, he casts out demons by the power of B. Elzebub. Jesus responds to that and says if Satan cast out Satan. Now, what Jesus was doing there is he was saying all evil is under the authority of Satan.

So in that sense, referring to a demon or Beelzebub or anything that is evil as Satan is in a sense aligning all evil with Satan. But there needs to be specificity and we see that in the scripture. So, for example, Luke 8, Matthew 8, Mark 5, we encounter Legion. And the demon even says, my name is Legion, for we are many. There is a scripture where Jesus rebukes a woman with a spirit of infirmity. She was bent over for 10 plus years. So you see, so if you've got Legion over here, we've got a spirit of infirmity. Alexander could probably really speak to.

Deaf and dumb spirit over there. Deaf and dumb spirit, right? And then I've even noticed, now I would say that all demons are unclean. Right. However, you do see distinctions in the gospel where certain spirits are referred to as demons. And some are referred to as unclean spirits. Clearly an unclean spirit is a type of demon. It could be synonymous with demon.

But like demons, they have to be cast out. Right. And they can possess. Right. We're just talking about that's just the ranking system of demons, which are all still beneath the ranks of all of the other creatures that he mentioned, like thrones, dominions, principalities, powers, authorities in some cases,

the cherubim, the seraphom, archangels, etc. Right. Like Satan is a cherub. He's a cherub. But he's a cherubim that fell. All right. So that sets off a whole other chain, you know, of line of thinking in regards to,

so then was he the only cherub that fell? Or was he just singularly fell? You know, see what I'm saying? So that opens you up to like all over. Then it makes sense. You know, fallen sons of God, the Watchers, Genesis Chapter 6. And I don't believe he was the only

cherub. I don't think so as well. Some believe that there were only a small number of seraphim and cherubim. God's creation, as far as the celestials go, I think the best word we can give it is innumerable. Right. We have no idea how many. And I think every class

could be innumerable. I mean, you have four cherubim. Ezekiel describes four cherubim. Right. They're under the sea of glass. John describes four, he calls him beasts or living creatures, but when you compare his creatures with Isaiah's creatures in chapter six, it's like, oh, those are the seraphim, and they're above. But then God placed cherubim in front of the tree of life,

to guard the weight to the tree of life, so that Adam would not take of the fruit. Right. So that sounds like more than four. Right. It definitely sounds like more than one, so that Satan couldn't have been the only cherub. And then it also shows you not only was his class,

Because many say, well, the devil used to be a fallen angel. No, he was a cherub. The cherub them are not angels. Seraphim are not cherubim. Right. Thrones are not dominions. These are different classes of creatures. So there's way more detail.

We used to, all of us, at one point, we lumped everything into angels, demons. Right. Angels demons, that's it. Right. No. No. Yeah. And not only that.

And then then you find when you don't understand the categorization of the demonic that he's describing, then here comes the, misinformed deliverance minister misdiagnosing things. And then it just doesn't work. And then someone leaves and goes, well, it didn't work. They didn't get it out, you know, or whatever the case would be.

And not only to add to what he's saying, it says the devil and his angels. So I think it's safe to say that, you know, there is a group of angels. And if you're over this group of angels, I think it could be safe to say that these group of angels are the same like you. And you're just ahead over all of those particular same angels.

he, the devil and his angels, he's a cherub, then he was over other cherubim angels. And he convinced them and led them into this, led them into this rebellion. So then there are other cherubim that have felt, well, where are they? Sitting here, I don't think, attacking the average Christian that's just, you know, attending. It doesn't, now, behind government officials and moving things in higher places of, you know, throughout the earth, then that makes more sense to me. But more natural and more authority in the natural equals more authority in the spiritual

coming against. That would make sense to me. And in our conversation previously, you mentioned Daniel 10. Daniel 10 lists three chief princes, two evil ones, one good one. The first is the prince of Persia. He was the ruling spirit over the kingdom of Persia, like Alexander said, to influence the king and leadership of Persia. Well, this unnamed angel shows up and says, and I love this.

this lets us know how powerful our words are. Like our words must be in line with Scripture. This unnamed angel shows up and says, hey, Daniel, I just want you to know, the moment you pray, the moment you spoke words, haven't heard you. And I've come for your words. He said, immediately, I mean, immediately dispatched because of your words,

but the prince of Persia withheld me 21 days. He said, this dude was so bad. I had to get Michael, your prince, meaning the prince of Israel. I had to get Michael to come and assist me. Once that was done, he says, and then the Prince of Greece will come. These are high, listen, the Prince of Persia is not rolling up in your bedroom. Yeah, the Prince of Greece. It's got more important things to do.

That's just the reality of it. And I've even heard some Christians, and I think, you know, it's a little bit of Catholicism. But even outside of Catholicism, there are people that think you could just, like, call on any angel and they're coming to your assistance. don't waste time looking for Gabriel or Michael to come and help you. They've got bigger fish to fry. We do have guardian angels. And trust me, they're bad enough to handle any demonic or satanic attacks that come towards you. But again, this is why I feel like the Spirit of God led me from day one to teach the specifics of this thing so that people can know.

And like he said, you got a lot of misdiagnosis. Yeah. You got a lot of people not knowing, I mean, leaders in the church not knowing what to specifically address when it comes to spiritual warfare. And I wrote about this in my book, because this leads into my book, which is why if you look at the cover, there's glasses on glasses on the cover. And what people don't understand is that your prescription of your eyesight changes as you age. Right. So this is why you can have glasses with lenses. and then after a while, 10 years,

you start getting headaches again and your doc, you go to get, and your prescription has been altered by way of age. I think the church's prescription on spiritual warfare is old. I think it's an older mom. That's why I put the glasses, right? So the glasses, if the cover has, it's blurry. They're seeing something,

but they're not seeing in detail and sharpness and specificity. That's good. So that's why I put discerning the demonic. You're discerning it, but you're not discerning it correctly, which means I see something, but I see something fuzzy. And then because they think, well, I know it's Ephesian 6, principality, power, rulers of darkness.

No, at this point, it's now Colossians 1. See what I'm saying? Thrones, dominions. So we're not saying, I'm not saying that the church isn't seeing it. What I'm saying is they're seeing it blurry, because now times have changed. And now there's a no onslaught of a, a whole new set of demons.

And we could get into that with the Bible actually calls in the book of Deuteronomy new demons that your ancestors have not fought before. And I deal with that in this book. So I'm not like providing a new manual on spiritual warfare. What I'm saying is, is that when you go to the doctor and they do the click and it does different frames and they go, what do you see? What do you see? What do you see?

That's what I'm doing in these chapter. I'm just saying, do you see it now? Do you see it now? And that's why the designer was able to put actually my glasses, these glasses, these glasses on the cover. And if you look at the cover, it's blurry on the outside, but once you put it in with a new set of prescription, right, then you're able to see in detail because your eyesight does change with age.

So what we're seeing is specifically in this area that what we're talking about, you got Christians, and I'm a little bit shocked, and I know he is, you know, after all this revelation that we've been telling you that they are not the same. It's disembodied spirits of the next. I'm still baffled him. I'm still baffled at the church going, no, it's still fallen angel. And then when you show them in the word, what I'm actually doing is that I'm changing their prescription. I'm saying, look, do you click, click, do you see it? So that's why I wrote this book, everything that we're talking about so that we can upgrade and do, not just do the act of deliverance, but effective deliverance because the categories are not the same.

This is wild stuff. I want to make sure we hit back on this idea of new demons. because that's something I never considered. But speaking of old demons, I think both of you brought up the Legion idea. You know, that's something that I started looking at a lot. You know, so like I, you guys, I mean, individually, let's just say, it's safe to say you guys probably preach thousands of sermons, right? Yeah. I mean, I'm talking like, I've preached five.

Okay. I'm new. I don't have a church and I only preach when I'm invited, right? But in my studies, the Lord kind of takes me down these rabbit holes. And then it just comes out in sermons. And the whole Legion thing threw me for, like, just to me back because I got stuck on chapter four and five in Mark. And not reading it as chapters, but an entire storyline and seeing what's actually happening there. Like Jesus was straight up waging war against the enemy that day.

He goes to the lake shore and he's preaching the parables. And it's like he's beating a drum and letting them know on the other side, I'm coming. Yeah. I'm coming. And then when he gets into the boat, that storm comes on. And I'm not a scholar, not a Greek scholar. But I was looking at the Greek of that. And the Greek word used for when he said be silent was the idea that he muzzled the storm,

which is the same word he used in Mark 125, he muzzled the, demon and so they made me start thinking like when it comes to even the storm it was demonically charged if this was not an ordinary storm which you're talking about western christianity it's like we're raised to to look at things very storm very happy jesus yeah just the christ flakes like we're just going to eat that for cereal in the morning and we're going to move on you know and it's like at some point we have to start looking at the east and what they've been dealing with for centuries and how does that apply to our ignorance here here. That storm, I think the tell is the reaction of at least for the disciples who were fishermen

on the Sea of Galilee and they were terrified. It was something completely different. So they get to the other side. I think I'll say, yeah, I know. I'm going to each. They get to the other side, right? And the whole Legion thing. I didn't know this. You guys probably did. Legion was actually a Roman military unit. Right. And it consists, at the time that Jesus was there dealing with that, it consisted between 5 to 5,500 soldiers. And so if they're identifying themselves as Legion, and we have 2,000 pigs that go around 2,000 pigs,

I venture to guess that if this, what I'm laying out is even plausible, those demons that went into those pigs, I wonder if they all went into the pigs. If we're going to take it to, like, Legion, was it just an idea, we are Legion for we are many? But, like, the idea that I was always under the assumption that Legion, when it was talking about Legion, Legion was an actual, like, demonic, some kind of demonic entity that, like, morphs into many or something like that.

But I think what it was talking about was, we are a collection of demons in this man. And where he was, I don't know if he was the only man like that. I mean, Matthew says one but ran away, you know? Right. What are you going to say? I'm sorry, I'm going to keep going. No.

All right. So, give me a little second with this. And then I'm a passing, Brock. Please. Right. Yeah. So Matthew, Mark, and Luke actually point out unique things.

And that's not uncommon with the gospel accounts. Right. So in Matthew's account, what is mind blowing is that, and they're referred to as the gurgasheen demoniacs or they're the demoniacs or the demoneaks, whereas it's Gadara or the Gadorans and Mark and Luke. And Matthew, they ask a question, have you come to torment us before the time? Right. That lets us know that they know there is a time.

Now, what is that time? Is it the time of their end? Is it the time of their demise, the time of their suffering? Are they referring to the time of Jesus establishing the church? and even though they wouldn't have really had an understanding of what the church was, but their authority or the authority of Jesus being fully invested in his followers, I mean, they're talking about the time, whatever it is, they know it. And I believe Marzuli even talks about this, that they knew that even though there is a time of our end, this isn't it.

Because they can't see time the way God sees time, but they can see time much better than we as humans can see time. Then you go to Mark. What was unique about Mark? My name is Legion, for we are many. But in Luke's account, they beg Jesus, please do not command us to go out to the abyss. The deep. They're afraid of this place.

Now, I've got a theory about that. I write about it in my book. It requires reading the book of Jubilee. So we can save that for maybe later, or even later on in this conversation. But they're afraid of this place, also known as the bottomless pit. It's where the devil will be locked up

for a thousand years, Revelation 20. Also in Revelation 9, the bottomless pit is unlocked and these locusts, lion-like creatures come out of the bottomless pit. And the scripture even says, and they had his king over them. His name in Hebrew is Abidon

in the Greek, Apollyan. So these are the three different slants that each gospel account is giving us. Now, you said that storm had to be unique. What do we know about Gadara. Gadara was one city of the Dachopolis, 10 city territory, 10 city region,

and it was Gentile. We know it was Gentile because swine were being raised. It wouldn't have been Jewish territory. Well, while the Roman Empire was the known power at the time, who was right before them, the Greeks? And if you know history, you know that the Roman Empire was heavily influenced by the Grecian Empire. I don't believe that was just any angel.

I believe it was Zeus. Really? Yes. The God because. Whoa. And here's why I say that. First off, we know Zeus is a god of lightning, weather, inclement weather. These swine, they beg Jesus.

Don't send us to the bottomless pit. And then he permits them to go on the swine. Was he being lenient? Was he showing mercy? Jesus would never show mercy on demons. What Jesus did was not merciful. It was masterful. those swine were being raised as a sacrifice for Zeus.

So Jesus allows the, what Jesus does, he does a two for one. Whoa. He exercises legion from a man, delivers him, sets him free from demonic possession, and then destroys Zeus's sacrifice. The same Zeus that I believe caused that storm to prevent him from getting to the side where the Gatarin Demosiac was. Whoa. Whoa.

Yeah. And I could go on. I had never. considered that. Like the history of Greece there and what that, wow. And pigs are sacred to Zeus.

Whoa. See, so what's happening right now is before he answered your question, you were bringing up something, but you didn't see it clearly. But you saw

something. It was blurry. He just upgraded your prescription. Yeah. That's why I wrote the book. Wow. So I'm just tweaking it so that you sense. I'm glad that you sense that because the deliverers community, we already embraced that. What he's saying is we embraced that.

See what I'm saying? We knew that that storm was, now the Zeus part is even better. Which is why I'm like, you got to get. But you knew it wasn't a normal storm. We all knew it wasn't a normal storm. We all knew that for a fact because even when he arrives on shore, when the demoniac comes to him, the text says, for he had already rebuked the spirit. He didn't rebuke the spirit after he got on shore.

When the demoniac ran to him, it says for Jesus had already rebuked the spirit. Okay, so when I read that, I assumed he was, it was, he had already rebuked the spirit as in like in the man. The man clearly couldn't hear, and it was his physical ears, but the spirits in the man heard. But you're saying is the storm that he just rebuked was what was being. the strong man and that was allowed enough for him to come and have a few moments of clarity to be able to bow down

and worship and then they make that connection and that dialogue to be able to have it. See what I'm saying? Understand when you're completely demon possess there is no worship. You know, like the demon is leading you off away. But the fact that he came and was still able to say, you know, and worship to some degree,

it says for the Jesus had already rebuked the Spirit. all of that. Now, the Deliverous community we've already embraced that that is, but we don't preach it as frequently.

You want to know why? Because our Christian brothers start saying, false doctrine, oh, you're stretching the text and all of that stuff. But any student of truth, a secret of truth,

it reads that. And if they're open, at least to spiritual warfare, they'll say, man, this doesn't seem like a normal storm. Exactly. Something's going on here. Yeah.

But it's blurry to you. Yeah. But it's blurry because of the prescription. you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And now your prescription has been updated. You'll never see you that verse ever again.

No, I can't wait to you guys so I can read it. And just like you had to know, Jesus is not showing mercy on demons. Right. So why is he permitting them to go into these swine? Wow. But we can't outright say, Spirit of Zeus.

Yeah. Because the church will fight us on it. Okay, so who cares? Why? Well, we don't care now. At this point. I'm glad because like, because I think, we're talking about like future generations of the church and how the culture changes and so does

we have to like, I don't want to say evolve with culture, but I think you guys understand what I'm saying. Like the messaging with this, it's like as we grow in knowledge, the culture is also changing. And we have to believe that God divinely is bringing those two together. Like this whole Zeus piece, anybody who goes like, well, it's just, you know, that's whatever terminology you just said. Like, that's called like history. Right.

That's called understanding history. Yeah. Like, if you read history and understand the stronghold that was there in history, it's easier to say, I bet that this is what's going on here. Got it. You know? And that should not be, I don't think, I don't care. Anybody should not be worried about saying that.

And would it be so far-fetched when Jesus mentions the seat of Satan in Revelation, which is the throne of Zeus? at Pergamum. That was the throne of Zeus. And Jesus called the throne of Zeus, the seat of Satan. Again, it has to do with the entities that are associated with Satan, which is why Jesus, in a general sense, said it's the seat of Satan, but it was specifically the throne of Zeus. But who does Zeus work for? Just like Bielzebub. These gods that will worship by these names, those are the names given to the people that worship them. They've got some other name we don't know, because they are ranks of the devil. They are the hosts of Satan. They've been masquerading as these deities all of these years, worship by the ancients, and then how do they still gain a foothold in society today? Very subtle ways. Subtle ways like Thursday being named after Thor.

Right? That's something real light. Like, you just kind of ignore that one, right? But guess what? Every single time you say Thursday, you're saying it's Thor's Day. Thursday. Wow. Every day of a week, named after a pagan deity.

Yeah. Every month of the year, named after a pagan deity. Where did the planets get their names from? Where did the moons get their names from? Where does plutonium get its name from? It comes from the planet Pluto, which comes from the Roman god Pluto of the underworld with the Greeks called Hades. This stuff's not accidental, but the devil knows, okay, how can I still peddle my agenda in a subtle way to get, in a sense, inoculate people so they didn't even realize what they're doing? Now I'm not saying that we need to figure out a way to call the days of the week something else.

Right. My point is, is the subtle pagan and paganism is that's not God's way. Paganism, that's not Israel. That's not the church. So paganism only falls under the other kingdom, which is the kingdom of darkness. Subtle ways in which the devil can. And in some cases, these subtle ways can cause believers to become numb. and they dropped their guard.

So this is why we wrote this book, discerning the demonic. What we're doing is we're increasing and sharpening the church's discernment, which is why channels and podcasts, such as yourself, allowing people like us to be able to share revelations like this

in an unbiased room. Because at times, I'm sure he deals with it. Like, the church learns something new, and I'm like, I knew that, like, 15 years. years ago. Right. And there are things now that we know now that I know for fact. There's certain things.

I have books in my head that I go, I can't write that until another 15 years from now. I just can't write it at the moment. Really? Because it just goes down that path on like dimensions and valley of the shadow of death, the valley of decision. Like these are real places in the spirit dimension. You know what I'm saying? And I could tell you one story.

And if you want to hear it where I actually use that. You're blowing your mind right on. a region of captivity, I actually did it in a deliverance session, and I couldn't break through. I hope you don't mind me sharing this with you. No. Okay, so one day, I'm being referred to, this is a true story. A reformed church, a reformed church in the Bronx was having an issue with one of their pastors, right, who was one of their leaders who was dealing with heavy demonic issues, and they tried everything.

one guy that's a member of the church, a pastor of the church says, I know a guy, he's a cool friend of mine. This is to take him to go see Pastor Fagani, right? So he called me, they brought the lady come through, and I had forgotten that he had made this request.

So I'm on my way out from church on a Sunday. And as soon as I'm about to leave the building, I vaguely hear very faint, like, like, come out, you follow spirit. You know, like, I'm like, are they doing deliverance? So I said, hold on. I track it down. And in my wife's office, the women are doing, you know, deliverance on, on this, on this woman. And it looks like they're having some, they're having trouble.

So I'm like, crazy as this sounds. So I go in the room, the demon and lady gets up, gets in my face and starts like sticking out her tongue. It's just like some, some spooky. I was thrown off guard for a split second and starts like badmouthing me and cursing at me or whatever. So I'm, you know, I kind of just sit down. And then next thing, you know, she slumps on the floor. And then she's like in a fetal position and it's like, get away from me. So we're trying to gain this woman's composure, but with no luck.

You know, 10 minutes go by and I'm like, okay, what's going on? And as clear as day, right? I'm sitting there and I'm like, okay, Lord, now 20 minutes gone by. And now she's not even listening to any commands or anything. Like, come on, my sister, get yourself together. You know, you file spirit or whatever. I have this vision right there. I look up and I see this dimension.

You know what I'm saying? And I see a demon or an entity stabbing her like with a spear. And whatever's happening here, she's manifesting. And unless she's like, oh, like being stabbed. So I didn't know what to do because I was not prepared for that level of the experience that I was happening. And then I started, I'm like, Lord, what do I do in this moment? And all these scriptures start coming into my mind, Valley of the Shadow of Death, the River of Death, you know, Valley of Disch, Valley of Dry Bones. And I'm like, okay.

So then I said to her, I said, I'm going to say her name is Sally. That's not her name. But I'm going to use Sally as a name. I literally say, I say, Sally, I need to stand on your feet. Right? She couldn't, she's not listening. So I said, we grab her up. And this is what I said.

I see her spirit up there. And then I see her physically down here. Right. So at that moment, I'm like, okay, God, where is this in the Bible? This is all split second. I'm not saying this is dragged out. You know, you split second in place. And I hear we're seated with Christ.

heavenly places. So we're here, but we're there. Like, I'm like, oh, okay, cool. I'm in good, I mean, good grounds here. So I say, this is a true story. I say, I say, I say, Sally, you're going to walk with me to my office. You file unclean entity that's up there. You release her, and when I walk with her to my office, you allow her spirit to go back into her soul to go back into her body. You're going to be in your right mind. I take Sally and I go like this.

Now, I'm encouraging. I'm quoting scripture. I'm like, take one step, but she couldn't take a step, so we're kind of helping her. And I kid you not, every step she took, I see her spirit getting walking, walking, walking, walking.

And when she finally, like it disappeared after a while, the vision, right? We in front of my office, and she's in her right mind, like completely in her right mind, right? Then I look at the ladies and I go, now continue with your delivering session, right?

And then they were able to kind of go through. Right? A month later, this woman is talking to me after service. And she goes, wow, you really don't remember me. And I go, man, I'm sorry. I talked to a lot of people, right? And she goes, I'm Sally. So then I'm freaking out because she doesn't look the same.

She looks completely different. So I asked, I said, wait a second. What happened that day? Come to find out from an early age as a child, she was having mental issues, and they were giving her from a child electroshock therapy. Jeez. Like the electroshock therapy to help her.

How old was she? She was very, very, very young. Really? I remember she was older, but remember back in the days they were doing things like that. Oh, she was doing and they were doing it. She was young.

Okay. She was older now. I was going to say this can't be... No, no, I don't know about now, but back then they were doing things like that to try to find out what was going on in her brain. So I guess whatever therapy that was caused her soul to break out of her body.

That's when I learned that there is not only just demons, but there are dimensions or dimensions or territories. And then that made sense to me why Jesus would take the blind man out the city before he heals him.

He says, okay, you want to get healed? Come with me. Let's get out of this territory and I'm going to heal you. I'm going to heal you over here. Or there are other times where he would just kind of

kick people out of the room and say, all of you kind of get out of here. You see what I'm saying? So this is all part of what we're talking about. So this is why some people can't get delivered

because sometimes their soul is locked in another place. It's all in the Psalms. David said, Lord, take my soul out of the dungeon. Lord, take me out of these waters. And I know it's hyperbole, figurative speech and metaphors and similes.

Yeah, there's some of that, right? But then there's some things that, you know, that are legitimate places. This is why sometimes when you're trying to talk to somebody who's like, just got diagnosed medically, like they don't have long to live. You could try as many encouragements as you want. That person is not even listening to you.

Why? Because they're already in that. place of the shadow of death. They're already in that dimension and they're making that journey. See what I'm saying? So that's all part of it. I actually talk about it in my book. But his book gives me like the groundwork and the footnotes that I know that I'm not going crazy that there is all of this. So your viewers might be saying, well, where's that in the Bible? Colossus 1 talks about dominions. Dominions, which just means whole dimensions, whole territory or jurisdictions where things actually can happen and can be done.

This is what we're talking about. And it's all in scripture. So I don't think anything that I've said is far-fetched for us to just say, well, that's just how he views that. No, your scripture is coming to mind and then paints a broader picture that you can see. We're missing it, man. Like, we're missing it. We need an upgrade.

We need an upgrade. I feel like the tribe that God's been putting me in the past few years. I feel like I just got another group of guys to come into my tribe. because I'm just like, I feel you guys so much on this. Like, and the thing is, you feel like you're wandering around by yourself for years. And then you just see God moving different ministers into my life. And I just feel like this is right now happening in perfect timing. Because what you're talking about, really, I've talked to people on this show that have had experiences with what you're describing.

And before I go there, let me take it a practical thing and personal thing. So when Lindsay last April, I think it was, when she was diagnosed, we went to the oncologist and he like spoke death in that meeting. I already was feeling like my wife's going to die. I mean, she was 39 at the time and it was totally, I was not expecting, this was not on the bingo car. Like, I smoked heavily in my, in my, throughout my life.

And the life that I lived, I'm going to be the one that goes first. Right. It was never part of my thought process to even consider my wife who has women living into their 90s in her family. So like, I'm already going into the office like that, all messed up. And he's just speaking death into this. And he's talking about, like, taking basically every body part he can. And like, I said to him, because, you know, the alternative.

medicine route, and I brought that up, and he kind of winced some of the things I brought up. But then he gave me two things that he felt was fine for alternative medicine for my wife. Mind you, he just got done speaking death over her. He says two things that I would be okay with you using alongside of our therapy is acupuncture and rakey. And I was like, wow, I was so gone mentally and emotionally in the moment that that flew over my head. But I was recording everything. And so when I was looking back at the transcript, trying to figure out what the doctor is saying. I'm trying to understand all this stuff.

For the first time of my life, I see the word raking. I'm like, rakey. And I go back and listen, I was like, this dude's asking me that he thinks it's okay to release demons on my wife? Like, I was like, no. So I remove my wife from that environment to different doctors. And all of a sudden, there's a switch in my wife and me, we don't feel this death oppression. The next person we talked to is speaking life downgrades her diagnosis to stage two, I think it was, or stage three from whatever it was. And I was like, yo, like I didn't even, I didn't have words to describe it until what you just said.

but it was like that, right? And it's wild, but I'll say, God, man, for the testimony. Right? You're bringing up the soul stuff. Yeah. And it was all new to me. Like, a lot of stuff that traditionally have been,

has been on the show, stuff that I've uncovered through people's experiences with really bizarre stuff. And everybody says, you're crazy and they walk away. I'm the guys like, welcome to the table, right? And so, like, you're bringing up the soul stuff

and Western Church, Western Christianity would say that's impossible, that's crazy. They can't, like, Damanegensis can't touch your soul, let alone take control of something, pull your soul, you're crazy. But if you look at just even CIA documents, they were working on this kind of stuff,

fragmenting the human consciousness or the soul and through abusive techniques like the shock therapy, there's a place in Pennsylvania. I used to live in the town, Springsteady, Pennsylvania right outside of Philly. and there's a place called Pennhurst. It's an old hospital there that they do now ghost tours on and stuff.

Yeah, I've seen it. Super, it's on these shows, right? Yeah, yeah. Seedy shows, yeah. So they used to do the shock therapy on these patients. So people would drop off their children that were mentally handicapped

and basically let them be there and you don't see them anymore. Right. And they would shock these kids and do all this stuff to them. So there was a lot of stuff like that. There was probably demonic things were being brought into the situation

that makes it a haunted place now. Mm-hmm. there's people who are dealing with, like, I call it demonic for a very umbrella term. Right. But they're saying that they're, like, these things, these entities are messing with, like, their soul.

Yeah. And I had no grounds for, like, understanding it until I'm sitting at the table here with a guy who I brought down, he's a young man. He's, I think he's still in his 20s. His church hired him. He was a cyber security. security, I think. But his church realized that he loves studying the Bible. His church also gets

a lot of people emailing, asking questions. So they hired him just to study the Bible and answer emails. And he, through his studies, started uncovering this historical documentation of what modern culture of the world that I run in, not you guys, would call dog man, these upright walking canine, I would say demonic. Yeah. I've seen the videos. Okay. Welcome to the professionals.

So he started tracking it throughout history and explores documenting these lands with these dog-headed people, Josephus talking about it. Was it the other one, Tactus, I think it is? Tassetist. Yeah, I can never get the name right. Like, those two would almost like argue back and forth in their writings, essentially, but they both agreed on this.

And like, so he brings this up, and we have a whole show on this. Somehow we get on the idea of soul stuff. And he goes, Ezekiel 1318. I'm like, what's that? And he starts talking about the rebuke of a prophetess sewing special magical bands on her arm in the hunt for the collection of human souls.

Human souls. Yeah. And that was this unlocking thing for me. I was like, it gave me this. Soul hunter. Yeah. It gave me this like, okay, there's a biblical precedent for this.

Now I don't understand how it all works. Right. But you saying, what you saw in the spirit, like, again, shows this idea that, listen, man, like, I don't need to understand how it all works to know that something's going on that is far beyond our ability to understand at times and extremely supernatural. And these dark entities, principalities, they're not powerless. And they're harnessing and using their power against mankind. And a lot of us are just walking around aimless, not even acknowledging

the fact that there's any war or there's any weapon that was formed against me. Right. You know? And that was just one of them. It's just like this whole idea of the soul stuff is just, it's wild to me. Can I use it? I want to use a pop culture reference. Please.

And I'm going to bring it back to the word. Many people are familiar with Harry Potter. So hopefully you don't get all kind of negative comments. I told you already. I don't care. But I'm using it as an example. So in the Harry Potter world and universe, the evil entity or the bad guy is Lord Voldemort. Voldemort, yeah.

Well, when Voldemort tries to kill Harry Potter as a child, the spell backsfires, and it tears his soul into seven parts. And the books, they're called Hor Cruxes. The point I want to make is, is it was a traumatic event that caused his soul to be split. Trauma is a hotbed for demonic activity. The trauma that individuals go through and then even realize how scarred or wounded or broken their soul becomes. I think what Pastor Pagani saw

because everybody isn't privileged to see. First off, it's discerning of spirits. It's as the spirit wills. So whenever the spirit wills it, you see. If he doesn't will it, you're not seeing. And someone in his spiritual line of work is going to be of necessity for him to see some things. And I've always thought, and his illustration just, in my opinion, confirmed it. I've always thought that what we're reading about in scripture probably looks way more detailed than what we're actually reading.

Like if we could peer behind the veil, we would probably see things we couldn't even explain or put into words. And the Bible gives us clues into these things. Paul says he was caught up to the third heaven. So that clearly tells you there's a first and a second heaven. And then even the Jews believe in seven heavens. And if our physical world is as detailed as it is and the spirit world is more real than the physical world than how much more detailed would the spirit realm be. Right.

To add to that, I think a good example of this correlation would be the wilderness of Azazel. right in the wilderness of azazel yeah is the wilderness of the scapegoat during the day of atonement where one of the levitical priests would take the other goat and the priests would lay their hands and then release it into the wilderness but it says the wilderness of azazel right it was a legitimate place one it's also giving us another name of an entity so azazel is there and then that connects book of enoch and all of that stuff so when christian's acting up i'm like okay azazel is there you know what i'm saying and we're not saying it should like it's scripture right right like people want to argue about that and i was like

back in the day i just kind of gave that i was like we don't need to argue about this because we know that it's like the writers read it so at least we can say well we can read it like the writers that wrote the bible right on top of that at least one scripture in that book was canonized which means the holy spirit inspired jude who was familiar with the book of enabre to at least include that one verse from the Book of Enoch in the Holy Scriptures. Verbatim. So that tells me there's probably some other credibility there. No, it's not inspired by the Holy Spirit the way we see or canon from Matthew to Revelation.

I mean, from Genesis to Revelation, but there's got to be some truth there. And the Book of Enoch expounds on the Genesis 6 account. And Azazel is one of the 200 who fell in the days of Jared. So the connection I'm trying to make is the wilderness of us. Azazel, and they can go look this up, right? Your viewers can go look this up. It was also considered a dry place. Dry place, that's it.

A dry place. Wait a second. Now, in the natural, it was a real dry place. Desert. But when an unclean spirit comes out of a master, he goes to what? Dry places. Oh, so the wilderness of Azazel or his dominion, his domain, see what I'm saying?

You know, so it's letting us know that there is a spirit dimension or a domain, a territory. So that's what I'm trying to relay that we have barely scratched the service, which is I've been wanting to write a book on this, and I'm like, I don't know if they're ready for it yet. Like I'm not ready for it, but when I read history, I know you're ready for it, you're saying. But not only that, I'm still exploring it because I want to make sure

that things are lining up. But when I read now different scriptures from the Psalms or the visions that some of the major minor prophets had. You know, we can't leave it up to, well, maybe it was just symbolism and, you know, figures and assimilies that the prophet was being shown so that he could understand what God was trying to say to him. No, John says, and Ezekiel says, the Lord grabbed me by my hair and took me to a place. And showed me

And showed me X, Y, and Z It doesn't say he gave me a vision Others had visions But then others it says No, when he grabbed me Which means you grabbed them Took me to a place

And there showed me To be able to Write with such detail The things that you've seen It cannot be a vision Because I don't remember Half of the things I see In a vision on a show

But if you take me to a place I'll remember every, like this It's the studio. I remember the details. If I pay attention enough because I'm not seeing it in a picture. I'm seeing it because I was here.

I'm seeing it. And then when I go to write it, or I could say it really was like that they had an accent wall. They had this color. They had this kind of mic. They had, you know, ultima mic, mic arm.

You know, these are places. So then when I read in the Old Testament, multitudes in the valley of decision. I go, oh, okay. Then he takes me to a valley of dry bones. I'm like, And then he has him, this is how I know it's not just a picture. He tells him to walk around.

He's a son of man, walk around. What do you see? He's walking around. He says, and as I walk, I saw a valley of bones, and they were very, very dry. See what I'm saying? So I believe that these are dimensional dominions or places where functioning happens that Colossus chapter one talks about. Now watch this.

And over those dominions and territories, there's a throne there. Somebody's overseeing. Somebody's overseen. So in this wilderness, it was Azazel. One of the 200s. So this is what we're saying. And I know that your viewers have read that before. So we're not saying anything outside of Scripture is that the prescription is off.

So what we're doing is we're clicking it so that they can see now. They'll never see the wilderness of Azazel the same ever again. Yeah. And then the dry places, here's just something else to add to just mess things up. The unclean spirit, the scripture says dry places, plural, by the way. He goes through dry places. Don't demons have a strange relationship with water? I mean, think about it.

They are the result of the Nephilim dying because of flood waters. So the Nephilim die in the days of the flood. Their spirits are remanded to the earth, disembodied, demons. We have this unique encounter with the Gatorine Demos, in which once they possess the swine, the swine fall off, the cliff into what? The water. They are killed. They drown, which means those demons are released in water.

But then yet, the scripture says, they go through dry places. When he comes back, finds his house, a human body, swept and in order, he goes and takes seven more spirits, or seven spirits more wicked than himself. degrees, ranks. And the eight of them take a residence in a human body that is 70% water. Jeez. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

So, like you said, we're our job is. We're spiritual eye doctors today. Yeah. We're just helping you. To just bring. Yeah. A little bit more clarity is needed. I have a question for you.

Perception. I got a question for you, Pastor. Talk to me. I write about this in my book. I'm wondering if you have encountered this. Now, the word I use is integration. This is what I believe. I believe that there is a, so most of the time,

he'll confirm this. In demonology, there are three levels of demonic attack, right? Obsession, oppression, or oppression, obsession, and then full on possession. Right. Now, in possession, which you've encountered plenty of possessed people, just like the Gatoraine Demosoniac, that person wants out, or they want the demon out.

They want freedom. But I believe in my studies and encounters with certain individuals, I believe beyond possession is, I call it integration. Right. Maybe there's a different word for it. Yeah, where the person does not, they don't. Yeah. Okay. So that is, well, one, I have encountered them, but that's far and why that I've encountered that.

But actually I have one and I actually have it on video on my YouTube channel. It's the first video there. I went to Alaska to do this event, right? We were preaching at the Alaska Stadium and they brought this woman on the platform to get prayed for, right? And when I went close to her, this is a true story, right? And just how ignorant a little bit, I was a little bit ignorant because it was my first time preaching there, you know, and I was dealing with the indigenous people that, the first people that live there,

you know, the Inuit people, you know what I'm saying? And everybody came. When I drew close to her, I kid you not, this is how Western civilization makes us think. Her eyes, the iris in her eyes were gold. And the pupil was a straight line like a serpent. Wow. I thought she was wearing contact lenses.

my, because what is Western civilization Jesus to be skeptical. I was literally I was like, oh, because you know, you could buy contact lenses, that goth community, they kind of buy those contact lenses or whatever. So I'm sitting here, okay, dealing with her, and you could go on my channel, maybe you can edit it into this conversation and you'll see it, you know what I'm saying, and the demon is blaspheming God in some of the most ancient and you can go see it, right? And the most ancient ways, right?

So after a while, it dawns on me. This spirit, this is not the person. This is a full-blown demon-possessed. But to get into what you were saying, so I'm wrestling, you see me wrestling with the demon, and demon is talking about something that happened 2,000 years ago, not even paying attention to what I'm actually

really saying. I'm like, you'll come out that body in Jesus name, right? Right? So I'm going to be very honest. She didn't get fully free. She got relief. So the demons sort of left for a season. When I walked away and I came back, her eyes were naturally brown, normal, right? Here's what they had brought this person from an

inpatient hospital thing. And they heard we were in town. And this person got a demon. Come to find out, this person was being visited according to this person was being visited, what she thought was Michael the Archangel and was having sexual intercourse with this entity. And guess what?

While I was talking with her, she did not want really to be free. They forced the deliverance on her. So that's what I'm being, you know, and to this day, when I keep tabs on the person because I know the pastor that knows the person that is part of this inpatient, the person is still...

So in that moment, I asked God, God, what happened? I didn't hear the word integration, but I in my spirit, I heard like there's a nature change here where she has become one

with this by her own willful volition of, I don't really want to be free because she was in her mind, this entity was visiting her, having intercourse with her, and that would result in these violent outbursts that was non-safe of the other inpatients

that were there and they just kind of threw her on me. And she, I may be honest with you, I'm not going to sit here and over glamorized, like I'm some super spiritual person. She didn't really get free. She got relieved for the moment. She got relief for the moment because she didn't want to get free. And she had embraced that she was in love with this. What she thought was holy.

Right. And totally in there. You know what I'm saying? But her nature completely changed to the point that her eyes completely changed. completely changed. And when I did some investigation, that level of integration now, you gave me a new word now, I'm saying, is causes there to be this features changing. And your viewers might be saying, well, where is that in the Bible? Well, Nebuchadnezzar was integrated with the eagle that inhabited him that Daniel saw in the vision. He says, sir, you're the eagle. Is I'm saying? And when he got full-blown demon-possessed, what was his features changed to? He became eagle-like. It actually says his hair grew to the point of feathers and claws, and he lost his mind.

It was given the mind of an animal. That's complete integration in there. See what I'm saying? And eventually he got free to some degree, but we don't find him ever becoming like a servant of Jehovah or Yahweh or the God of the Hebrews, but we know that he acknowledged, you know, God and got some measure of freedom.

But what we do find is that there is a level of full-blown integration, you know, and I think the book actually talks about Kane being integrated, cane being of the wicked one, like completely, but we could flesh that out. So on long lines you're talking about, would, man, there's probably so many different spots then throughout history or even in scripture

that this might apply to. David's Mighty Men, I'm trying to blank on his bodyguard, his head bodyguard's name, starts with the B, but it lists his resume. And in the resume, it says that, you know, he chased down like a lion or a bear and killed it. And which is, it's like, okay, but David did that when he's a teenager, you know? And so it's like, okay, what else is your qualifications to guard the king like this? Right.

And it says, it's a lot of translations that says he killed a handsome Egyptian. And then in others, it says he killed a giant Egyptian. And it's like, okay, got it, different translations. But we're talking about he killed a Nephilim. Okay. So did the king. So what else you got? Right. And then it says that he killed two lion-headed men from Moab.

From Moab. Yeah. And now I'm thinking along with what you just said, could it be one of those situations where these are people who physically changed into something else? And also, we're talking about modern times now is that a similar thing to what we're seeing with the idea of Skinwalkers. They talk about Skinwalkers where it's a human being that has to go through some very dark rituals that get to where they get to with being on transform their body, including sacrificing a family member.

So, like, we're talking about some really dark stuff, but that results in physical transformation. Absolutely. So these are things that we're seeing in scripture, we're seeing in stories, and we're seeing in modern culture of people talking about this, this supernatural phenomenon in today's world. It is wild stuff. And mythologies across multiple cultures. Why did these mythologies have these hybridized creatures? You have a centaur, half man, half horse, minotaur, half bull.

Some would just say, oh, that's fiction, that's lore, and that's myth. Well, the book of Enoch says that once the Nephilim had literally exhausted all of the Earth's resources, well, not Earths, but all of human resources, it says they send against nature. Now, I take that to me, they went against nature. Animal, beasts, bird, that's why you've got images of the Pegasus and the Griffin. and there was a lot of experimenting and a lot of splicing going on in the days of Noah. I agree 100%. I did, I just did a thing for a different show, and I talked about this stuff. And because it was this idea of cryptids, right?

And I'm on a panel with pastors. I don't know why I'm being guarded with it. It's called The Counter. I did it with Troy Brewer, Alondadeo, just to see all those guys. I just didn't want to make it about that. in the in the the the we did an entire episode coming out for season two uh on cryptids i brought up this idea of it because i was just like listen i don't know what all this stuff is but if you just look at scripture there's a clear precedent that there are things that are supernatural beasts essentially

that are in scripture in scripture yeah and so it's like there's this grounds for for openly communicating about this stuff. And I think what you were saying earlier about just the Western culture, we just have traditionally not been trained to even have eyes and ears to see and hear this kind of stuff. And at the same time, we're being built up in a pop culture world where it's all fantasy. It's all fake. Marvel's fake. It's just a movie.

And in reality, when I watch Barb, I'm like, I got that from Scripture. They got that from Scripture. Absolutely. Absolutely. In the days of Jared, when the Watchers came down and they did their thing, again, referencing the Book of Enok only because, as a point of reference. Yeah, sure. And I always say, this is my line when it comes to the extra biblical books. If what I'm reading does not contradict Scripture, then we may have something here. Also, like, if you're against it, then stop reading commentaries.

Stop buying a commentary. Don't read it Heiser. Don't read MacArthur. Don't read any of it. Don't read any of it. It's not scripture. Yep. Yep.

The Book of Enoch says that not only did the watchers come down and mate with women. Right. Come on. But they also, in a sense, impregnated men with interdimensional knowledge. Right. They gained secrets from the vault of heaven. Mankind was never supposed to know. And you learn that they taught them how to count clouds.

how to cut roots. They taught them witchcraft. They taught them all these things that they were never supposed to know. Now, I believe we have a scriptural example of someone avoiding that. Bible says that Paul was caught up to the third heaven. Now, most of the time, scholars will say,

Bible teachers will say, that when the scripture says, and I saw things unlawful for man to utter. Come on, unlawful. Oh, that just means he did have human words to describe what he saw. Maybe. But is it possible?

he saw some things. Not authorized to share it. Wow. In a sense, it is illegal for the earth realm to know this. Right. The key word is unlawful. Unlawful. Not that it doesn't exist.

It's just unlawful to talk about it. Or to make people aware of that. And to go even a step further where we can see this, we can also find what he's talking about. I think the premise for this is there also in the descendants of Kane. when you find that the three descendants of cane You got Jew ball, two ball, cane two ball canes.

It's Jeval. Right. Jay ball, right. What you find, now what you find in there, and it's the only reference to this of, it says, and Jew ball was the father of metallurgy or metalworks.

And then it says, Jubal was the father of the cattle or livestock, where we get New York stock exchange or currency or the money system. See what I'm saying? I believe that because of this mark that Kane had or became being of the wicked one and building a city and all of that stuff

or whatever the case, maybe we can kind of flesh that out. But I think that the descendants, both of these three descendants, had received special unlawful revelation given to them to be able to tap into knowledge that was not privy to others. 100%. And what made them be able to conquer,

being able to create weaponry and all of this stuff to enslave other human beings that were living around that time. So I think it's there. I think it's there. I think it's all there. Specifically, those three sons of Kane. Of the three,

with Tubal Kane, he was the metal worker. Yeah. And then Juval and Jayvall, one was the father of music. And the other one was music. Music. Music. Yeah, music. Media, communication.

See what I'm saying? Two Ball Kane was most likely the worst of him. He's even said to be the world's first alchemist. He's literally equated with like Hephaestis. And he was the one with metallurgy? And Vulcan. Yeah.

Metallurgy. Okay. Called the world's first alchemist. Right. His symbol was his name, two balls and a cane. And it is Masonic. That symbol you can see on the rings of certain Masons.

What's wrong with Masons? No. It's a whole other conversation. That's a whole other conversation. Wow. Yeah. That is wild stuff. No point.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's all there. And not only that, Tubal Kane, he's also carrying the name Kane in there. So you notice that the generational curse was also going down because he was the one that he also killed the man.

Yep. And he says, if my great, great-grandfather is this judgment seven times, then 70 times seven or whatever the case may be. So it's kind of like all there. And then that opens up the door to epigenetic modification where the information is in the bloodline and blood is liquid.

And it's being transferred for one generation to the next. And that's why Jesus talked about, the apostle Paul talked about in the book of Titus, the washing of regeneration, which means your genes need to be rewashed. Your genes need to be washed again because there's information here. You must be born again.

Jesus talks about it. So it's kind of like all intertwined in all of that. So is that like also go along the lines then of the generational curse, deliverance? Which is why I wrote my first books. It's secrets of generational curses and secrets of deliverance. I'm exploring all of that. That's all in there.

So, listen, we can go on forever. Okay? And I would just venture to say that I don't think this will be the first and last time that we have a conversation of the three of us. Right. I want to bring to something up here that just happened last week. And I don't think it's going to go against anything. But I want you your perspectives on this. And this is a story, story time of Tony.

I talked to a woman this past week. and I think the episode is going up for our members probably in like a week or two, I'm not sure. But her and her husband in 2024 were called to the Solomon Islands to be missionaries. They met in the mission's field. She comes from a Calvinistic route. He comes from probably more charismatic.

They find each other, true love, you know, theology, differences aside, all that stuff. And they get called to, and I think she kind of put to bed the whole reform side of things before this, but they go get called to the Solomon Islands for the last two years. They go to this place that's just extremely poor. These people are island people, just totally third world. And they have this community. They built 40, 60 people. And people come, be ministered to.

And they talk about, like, she told me about this one situation where, like, multiple people were manifesting. And it was just like these demons just, it seems like with what she was telling me, they have, they have this like, it's almost like they, they believe they have this right and authority in this geographical area. And to the point that the way they're treating the human host body, like during these sessions, like smashing the head off the floor and stuff, it's like, it's like, I don't care if I kill this body. I'll just go get a different one. Like we, we own all this. And, um, and, um, and, um, and, and her kids are there, 11, 9, and 5, and the 11-year-old is just keeping an eye on the 5-year-old,

the 5-year-old falls asleep because it's just like whatever. It's just like what mom and dad do. And people are slithering across the floor. I'm trying to paint the picture of how demonically stronghold this is, right? And that's like the surface level. And they probably thought that that's as like supernaturally charged as things we're going to get. As people start coming to Christ and they start getting into know of the community and speaking with people, it is not uncommon.

Many people talk about how the history of these islands having giants and that there's still a problem today. They say that in broad daylight, these beings, these entities will come into town and hijack, not hijack, kidnap people for trafficking. They essentially traffic people. They don't have words to describe what we. we would call UFOs, but what they're describing is UFOs coming up out of the water. And it's like a spiritual thing. These tunnel systems on this island that are guarded by entities. Like, for American terms, cryptids, creatures.

So they didn't say werewolf, but they call it a, they call one a wear shark and a wear stingray. I don't know what that looks like, but she's like, this is what she was told. And many people are confirming this. this is just one person. They're always saying, oh, yeah, that's what happens here. She said that on top of that,

there's, I guess, historically, some of them aren't, they're like a generation, a generation removed from like people in their family who would go to the tunnel systems

to do, I guess, rituals or something, to go into, enter in, where they would actually, what, you only can take

what these, these entities say on service level, right? But she said that they were telling her, fallen angels are appearing to them in there, communicating with them in chariots of fire,

Ezekiel, and saying about this coming war and after the war, essentially they believe they're going to win and it's coming. And when it's all over when this war is over. They're going to run in everything. And so they're having these

communications, there's a witch doctor that came from another village in their community. He's come to Christ, and he hasn't gone home yet because everybody at home views him as the most powerful person in their community. And when he goes home, he's bringing a different message, a different greater power, right? But this guy starts talking about how his lineage comes from the giants. And the way he describes, and this is just a fresh conversation I had last week, I haven't listened to it again, so details might be foggy. But essentially, he believes, this is what they believe. I don't know whether it's true, lines up, whatever.

But they believe, and he says that essentially there was hybridization. And then at some point in that line, it becomes less physical and more spiritual. And they're being born with these demonic Nephilim spirits. And he's gotten to the point now where it's almost like, I view it as almost like a copyrighted machine. Like, copying things. Eventually, the ink doesn't show up,

right? Yeah, yeah. A copy of a copy of a copy. Yeah. And so, like, he's like at the point in the family lineage where, um, the, that,

that bloodline that he comes from has to be intentionally invited in, which is what he did to reengage that stuff and to harness that power that was once had in his ancestry. Um, but all this stuff happening on this very physical, geographical location, um, I have a hard time believing that there's an entire island of people who are delusional and making stuff up.

Right. And so they're describing the best they can the overspilling of the supernatural realm in a very dark way. I wonder, and this is, say whatever you want to what I just said. Like, feel free to react to whatever. But my question would be, do you feel like there is geographical locations that are such a stronghold on Earth that the veils? that the veil is that thin where it's just this exchange back and forth.

The people that are there are majority people who are victim to the demonic oppression, possession, because it's just for whatever reason a geographical stronghold of the enemy because it sounds like that to me. And so have you guys encountered

things like that, ideas of that where it's just like geographic, I would another, another okay here, East Tennessee, the Appalachian Mountains. Yeah. I mean,

you and I had a conversation about that. the phone one time. Like, it's like, there's something unique here, you know. But that sounds so extreme compared to what I've experienced here. Right. So what are your thoughts on all that? There's a lot. As I wind the show down.

Yeah. Well, there's a lot to flesh out there. Well, one, coming from Afro-Latino, Caribbean descent, nothing that you're saying is far-fetched. You know, what you're wrestling with, again, no shade on Western, you know, American evangelicalism or whatever the case may be. This is common language for in the islands of Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic.

This is normal language for us. So we're not wrestling with the ideas of there are stories that my grandmother told me. And everybody in Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic knows that, but specifically Puerto Rico, that a certain time of the night, you just don't go outside because they are ships and entities

coming out of the water and they're just literally going through the city. You know what I'm saying? So it's not like, you know, stories to keep the children not wanting to go outside, like legitimate stuff that they've seen, you know. Second, because I've had God has given me the privilege to be able to take this message of deliverance to the bottom of New Zealand. And that's a whole other ballgame there. Dealing with Pacific Islander spirits.

A whole other ballgame there. Yeah. We've been to the top of Alaska, borough Alaska, the top. You know what I'm saying? And dealing with Arctic spirits, whome of the ball game there. And the tribes and indigenous people there that are in their connection to, you know,

the ruling principalities or powers, I find a common threat that the story of giant entities or beings is common there. There is no, you know, that sounds like Thanos for Marvel or I don't know about that, Ant Man or whatever. No, it is interwoven into the culture, the fabric.

And I know for the fact that this is not like superstition, they are whole families and bloodlines. You know, even my family dabbling into the witchcraft. And without the influence of maybe a little bit of Roman Catholicism that brings some sort of Christian intervention there, imagine being in a bloodline where there's no Christian intervention in anything. how deep can get how deep can they go third the book of revelation actually talks about the depths of satan and information that's out there that jesus was like you did not go down that path i think it was

a church in thiatira you know saying but if you look at actually each in all of those areas even the seat of satan there's no christian influence there in this day at all you know saying it's just completely um i don't think what you're saying or what they are experiencing in the the Solomon Islands, is anything far fresh that the scriptures, you know, would, we can condemn that as heresy or false doctrine or, you know, maybe there's just some, some folklore superstition. I think it's, I think it's authentically real. I think the church we need to, I think modern day missionaries, it would behoove us, again, to train them in all of this.

When they go to these other countries, they're not thinking that we're coming with this Western version of Christianity. No, you're dealing with an entity that's been there for 2000. years and the whole island itself is a demonic altar and covenant of blood or whatever the case may be. You know what I'm saying? So I would say yes. What's your thoughts? I'd say yes.

Go ahead. Go ahead. Give you guys. Go ahead. Your mind is working. Yeah. I would agree. Yeah.

And I would just add that you as are there maybe pockets in the, you know, on the earth where it could just maybe be a little bit more supercharged. in other areas, especially supercharged for demonic and satanic activity. Well, I think two other examples that we could use, we can go back from Scripture, we could go back to Godara. Notice when Jesus ministered to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and he did a miracle, he would say, see that you tell no one. But when it came to the Gatorine Demosiac, which was Gentile territory, he said, run and tell everyone what the Lord has done for you.

So he knew what running and telling everyone in this region would do. And then we know how highly charged Mount Hermon was. So that's number one, that's when the watchers came down in the days of Jared on to Mount Hermon. This is exactly why Jesus went to Cesarea Philippi to say exactly what he said in one of the most pagan and demonic places that a person could find themselves in. It used to be the seat of bail. It was the seat of Pan. the Greek Seder guide and then it was Sessoriah Philippi

literally dedicated to the deification of Caesar. And this is where Jesus goes to ask the question, who do men say that I am and then says on this rock I'll build my church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. Jesus intentionally went there

to pick a fight with the kingdom of darkness. I love that. Then he goes to the top of the mountain and we have the transfiguration account. Then he comes down from the mountain and he deals with the demon-possessed death and dumb spirit. The Bible, in some translations, call them an epileptic.

In the Greek, it says one who would be lunar struck would howl at the moon. So that whole full moon thing, you're talking about werewolves and wear creatures. That stuff, that's not make-believe. And it all comes from what the watchers did in Genesis 6. So absolutely, this kind of, and think about this. angels we see in scripture have the ability to transform. They have their own bodies. The Bible says the devil who is a cherub has the power to transform himself into an angel of light.

It says, if he can, then so can his ministers of righteousness do the same. And then Hebrews 13, too, says some have unwittingly entertain angels. So I would think then that demons, since they don't have their own bodies and they have to possess, remember, part of their nature is angelic. it would make sense that once they possess a person, that they can then cause that person to bend and warp and somewhat transform. So nothing that you said. And then speaking to someone being like, I guess the descendant of, you know, years and years and years and years down the road, but like have Nephilim in their ancestry. I believe that when the watchers made it with those human women, something was passed over to those women. it wasn't just a mating session.

It makes total sense. A celestial creature copulated with a terrestrial creature. There's some crossover. I mean, they say that when you have sex with a woman, you leave your DNA in her body for the next. So it's like, if I'm doing that,

how much more would a fallen angel do that, right? With intent. With intent. You know? So there's a, I was told a couple of years, years ago by a pastor friend of mine who was trying to encourage me that they're coming from a charismatic church he said there's a shift happening in the charismatic world and he said half of the

charismatic world is going to double down to what's always worked and the other half of the charismatic world is going to be much more open to the supernatural and what's happening and I feel like I just got to say it's like I feel like you guys are like you're here for a reason not just here physically but like this time you're meant for the generation that's coming. And it's been all preparation. Like, I called me in the podcasting in 2017.

No idea why. And it was a season of preparation for now. And I hope he continues to prepare me because I need a lot of work. But, like, the last 10 years has been just complete preparation. Five years ago, this conversation is not happening

because I would have been too scared to sit down with two men of God like you guys to talk. I've been way too scared. I never interviewed Heiser because it wasn't like, wasn't an option, I was too scared to talk to the man. Wow. Wow. I was too, I listened to Heiser teach before I was called a podcast. I would listen to his teachings on YouTube while I'm driving

my truck. Same here. So like, I was intimidated by people who I viewed as intellectually superior than me because I had a low self-esteem of myself. I'm not saying I'm the smartest guy in the world, but I'm confident who God created me to be. Right. Right. And so like there's a shift happening. He brings me to this proverbial table. And I believe it's because, of this time where we need a host conversation about this because then you guys are going to go back to your homes, your churches, your communities, and those communities are plugging into shows like this. And you're more equipped. I'm more equipped. And more importantly, everybody watching and listening is more equipped. How many pastors watch this show that are being, there's things that are

unlocking. I've heard that. I've never heard that. I've never heard that. You know what I mean? And it's just kind of unlocks. And I believe it's because of what's happening right now. I believe things are coming to ahead and there needs to be people who are warrior-like, like Christ. Like what you were describing there, like, that's what, it's just so, I'm so hung up on this. And I hope that. Well, God is raising up reformers. Modern day reformers, not just warriors.

Yeah. Because warriors can soon be forgotten, right? So we're not looking for like, and amen, we believe in revival and revivals in the land. But I think what God is looking for is something that, to sustain itself. And I think that comes through reformation. You know what I'm saying? So I think the reformation is having another reformation within the reformation.

And I think, you know, God is raising up different schools of thought to kind of break us out of, you know, the template that's been presented to us, which was great. You see what I'm saying? We're not saying we move that. You know what I'm saying? But there's more. There's more. Yeah. And we both are two of, I don't know how many there are.

I believe it's a minority, but that minority is growing. but we're guys who at one point, we're like, am I by myself? Yeah, same here. In thinking like this. I felt that way. And so like you said, there's things he wouldn't teach or write because he's like, they're not ready for this yet. They're not ready for this. And there were things that I would not pull the trigger on because I'm like,

I'm probably going to think, I'm a weirdo. Yeah. And specifically within the charismatic circle, my origins are word of faith. I'm a very strange and weird word of faith individual. She barely made the cut for Harrison House. Exactly. And then you thought about doing destiny image with him. They thought about, exactly.

And basically, I think what's happening is, there's just, there's a shift happening. Yeah. It's a reformation. I love that. I'm going to look into, because I'm not. And nothing is erroneous and unscriptural. Right.

You know, we're highlighting, you know. Yeah. approaching Apollos, who are enthusiastic about the word, fiery preaching, but they notice that he lacked depth and understanding in a deeper meaning of it. And they pulled him to the side and they explained the way of God more accurately. And that represents like this apostolic and prophetic thrust to be able to go deeper in. And the Bible says that Apollos's line of thinking, this is in Acts chapter four, I think. His, or 18, his shifted his thinking. And he went right back to Egypt, Alexandria and started debating everybody and he became a benefit. He became so powerful in his

ministry of teaching and revelation that a whole group began to follow him. That Paul had to say, hey, some of you say you will follow Paul, Seifus, and Apollos, because he was so enthusiastic about what he had learned that added. that added. And another of that, to add to that, God is raising up, you know, the church right now, some are like the disciples

on the shore of Ephesus. And Paul in the middle of his presentation, he realized they lacked something. Something would happen in that group of believers that he was like, something's missing. You know what I'm saying?

And he said, have you heard of the Holy Spirit? And they said, and it says that they were believers. They said, we never even heard of a Holy Spirit. And what do you do? He went and he preached.

and he baptized them a second time, which means now they're changing their school. Baptism is surrendering to a new school of thought, right? So they were already baptized, right? All we know was baptism, baptism of John. That's it's all we know. And we believe in the Messiah. You know what I'm saying?

They weren't like technically John's disciples, because it says they were disciples of the Messiah, but they only understood John's baptism. And what was his baptism? Repentance and the Word. That's it. Yeah. And the Messiah is coming.

Yeah. Right. So now he gave them this deeper thing, and they totally got turned out and then that group end up launching and becoming the church in Ephesus and he ends up staying, I think, for three months or something like that.

And so I think that's what God is doing. He's raising up individuals who have this, not new revelation, but deeper insight into a specific portion of scripture or line of thinking, a school of thought, presenting it to the church through podcasts such as yourself,

which is why the confessional is so important. So, because there's others who won't, there might be the first thing they'd heard anything like this. And now there's a group of people saying, I'm not alone. There's these guys, you're saying? And I believe it produces a reformation

because everything that we talked about today, no one in their right mind will go back and view those same scriptures the same way. That's reformation. Wow. That's reformation. And it was always there.

Yeah, it's always there. It was always there. It's wild, guys. So we're not restoring anything. I would say maybe rediscovering, but not restoring anything because it's just been there. Well, your glasses,

a example is perfect. The Bible says we see in a mirror dimly. And I think as we continue on in the faith, it's the mirror theological mind right here. I'm just at all. You know what I'm saying? The mirror's less dim. I don't think we're going to have the clear picture

until we're face-to-face with Jesus. But let's say each day, it should get clear, clear and clear and clear and clear, glory to glory, faith to faith. Yeah. Yeah.

Guys, I'm glad we did this. I'm so glad we did this. Tell people where they could find you guys. You start. Well, number one, our book should be coming out tomorrow. Our new book here, discerning the demonic, so we're really excited about it. The vast majority, not all, but all that we talked about today, can be following the book. You can pick it up everywhere that books are being sold.

But you can just find us on YouTube. Same thing. Same social media handles, Alexander Fagani Live. and they want to continue to talk about topics like this. We explore that on our channel. No fear. We're hungry to go deeper into the secrets and the mysteries of the kingdom, Matthew chapter 13. You know, but we're willing to pay the tuition fee to get there.

That's why I like that. I love it. I love it. I wish you paid a price. I guess I'll also famously plug the book. Yes, come on, man. I'm talking about your book than mine. I'm excited about your book.

Amazon.com. That's probably or Norai Media Group. You can get the book there. Apple ebooks and Barnes & Noble's as well. And then on YouTube and Instagram, EIF Ministries, also on Instagram, Affaira Price Jr. And we're on Facebook as well, Every Increasing Faith, Frederick Kaye Price Jr.

That's how you can connect with us. And we're going to link both books in the description of this episode so people can just click and go. Guys, I appreciate being here. This was more than I expected. And I mean, that in the best way possible. So thanks so much. Absolutely.

Awesome. Yeah. You sure you wanna know? You sure you wanna know? Too late! Down, down we go. Rabbit hole, lose control. UFOs, big for portals, goes.

Tell me what you saw. Down, down, down we go. Things get weird on this show. Dark gets exposed when the light gets closed. Welcome to the confessionals. Mic check on one, two. What followed you? Red, red eyes, tree line.

Bro, that thing flew. Lights in the sky. Nobody knows. Three knocks outside. Open that door. Wait, you said it had wings? Keep talking. Big, big, big, big, big, big, big foot.

Dogman, Nephilum, yeah, something in the air. Orbs, portals, things unseen, everybody thinks it's crazy till they see. Lose control, UFOs, big foot, weird on this show, dark is exposed when the light gets closed. Welcome to the Confessionals. Watch a giants, ancient rebellion, secret room, strange intelligence, black helicopters, lights overhead, government says, ain't nothing there. Okay, sure, then what was that? Follow the Loverance.

Deliverance. Kingdoms collide. Dark wants the spotlight truth doesn't hide. Demons won fear, deception wants fame, but everything changes a Jesus name. They all lose control. UFOs, Bigfoot portals, ghosts. Tell me what you saw. Let's go on this show.

And that's when things get weird.