The Confessionals - RELOADED | 22: It Looked Like I Had a Handprint On My Throat

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

Episode 22 features the story of Jack, who began experiencing hauntings after he left his hometown to pursue a music career.The Confessionals Members App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZBecome a member for AD FREE listening and EXTRA shows: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinWatch The Shape of Shadows: https://www.merkel.media/stream-nowWatch Expedition Dogman: https://bit.ly/3CE6Kg0AFFILIATESSee Bigfoot in the dark of night with Sionyx night vision: https://alnk.to/bEhxr3FGet emergency medical with My Medic: https://alnk.to/dpr6QM4Stay warm with Black Beard Fire Starters: https://alnk.to/4BFcIbePrepare with Valley Food Storage: https://alnk.to/2uG55AOEcoFlow Power Generators: https://alnk.to/flvpAQwGoDark Faraday Bags: https://alnk.to/5jke3rkEMP Shield: empshield.com Coupon Code: "tony" for $50 off every item you purchase!SPONSORSFACTOR MEALS: factormeals.com/confessionals50SIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsHello Fresh: hellofresh.com/confessionalsfree Promo Code: "confessionalsfree" for FREE BREAKFAST FOR LIFE!!!CONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] to the Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/the-newsletterMAILING ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIDiscord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelOUTRO MUSICKarl Lozano - Red Hot Chili Peppers ft. Taylor Swift Can't Shake it Off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiTOjOIDjr8

Merkel? I guess it's time to go back in time. Are you telling me you built a time machine? Out of a Delorean? Time is but a stubborn illusion. I have a lot of memories of the past. People are time traveling within themselves. Time travel is possible.

Rise your life. Digging in the shadows. Oh, holy. You guys hear that? Hey, I'll reload it. Welcome to the show, everybody. I'm your host, Tony Merkel, and I am really glad that you're here, and I'm really glad to be here.

I hope everybody had a great week at work. My week went by incredibly fast for actually coming off a week of vacation. Usually it drags, and it's hard to get through the week, but this week went by really well, and I was really grateful for that. I got a great show planned for you guys tonight, but before we get to that, I just want to let you know if you've had an encounter of any kind or a story you'd like to share on the show. go to the website, the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the connection section, and you can reach me that way as well.

Also go on Facebook, Twitter, and give us a follow and a like. Now, tonight's show we have Jack coming on, and Jack has pretty much experienced paranormal activity his entire adult life. He left his small hometown that he grew up in and moved to the big city and searched for a music career. And right around that time is when he started experiencing a lot of paranormal activity, anything from being scratched to seeing a little girl in his house. He has a lot of different stories he wants to share with us tonight. So without any further delay, let's get to Jack. Okay, tonight I have a special guest coming on. Jack contacted me through email, and he has had pretty much a life of paranormal experiences stemming from his childhood. He's actually had a group that he was a part of that I think he might even started. It was a paranormal group

where they actually did like ghost hunting and things like that. And some things happened to him throughout his life that are pretty dramatic and he'd like to come on tonight and share that with us. Jack, how are you? I'm great, Tony. Absolutely, man. I'm glad you're here. Now, we were talking before this show and everything and you said that you were actually listening to this past week's show with Jim and Jim said something that struck a chord with you. Jim said something like if you go looking for something, you'll find it. And you said that kind of hit home to you because you've experienced just that throughout your life. But you were also talking about when you were a kid, when you were real young,

something had happened to you. Did you want to start there? Or how did you want to go about telling people your experiences? Well, before I go into my story of, you know, he had said that, you know, if you're open and curious, you may find what you're looking for. And that really struck a nerve for me when I started the paranormal group. but we can get into that later. I guess I can start out by, you know,

talking about my childhood briefly. When I was growing up, I grew up with an older brother and an older sister. We're all three years apart. And when I was little, I can recall this reoccurring nightmare. In fact, I had this nightmare throughout my life. Like the last time I had it,

I think I was about 28. or 29 years old, but it was just some kind of weird thing that, you know, I talked to my mom about it, and she said, oh, relax, it's just a nightmare, but it was the strangest thing, you know, my brother was chained to this miniature volcano in our kitchen, and there was this evil Santa Claus that was trying to kill him, and I was trying to help him. And, and I was trying to help him. And, and I, I, And I don't know why that stands out so much in my life. And I don't know why I have that nightmare so many times, but I had it almost nightly when I was, you know, five and six and growing up. And then it kind of faded away.

But it was just a really weird thing, you know, and it would never differ. It was always the same. And I'd wake up, you know, just drenched and sweat. Even when I was a little kid, I don't even know if you have sweat glands when you're that little bit. Um, that's kind of where the weirdness, I guess, started for me. Um, I know that reoccurring nightmares are something that a lot of kids have, but just that to that depth, I mean, it scared the heck out of me. Um, but, uh, as I was growing up, you know, I kind of, I went to Catholic school.

I, you know, a Catholic grade school and a Catholic high school and kind of rebelled a little bit. I thought there was some hypocrisy in the Catholic religion at one point in my life. And, and, you know, so I rebelled against that and, you know, started getting into drinking and smoking pot and doing all those things that high school kids do. I turned of age to, you know, move on. I grew up in kind of a small town, and there wasn't any. feature there I thought for me. I wanted to play rock and roll. I wanted to be a rock star, just like every kid, I guess, a lot of kids. And so I packed up my stuff. I had some friends from Austin that were living in my hometown and they set me up with some friends of theirs down

in Austin. And I promptly moved down there with just a bag of clothes. Well, it didn't really work out very well. I was on the streets for a little while. not too long, a few weeks, and then finally got a, you know, meaningless job and whatnot down there, but tried to get into the music scene, and it took a while. But eventually I did. I started playing in a punk rock band and didn't, I kind of found out that you got to have talent to be a musician. but and I thought I actually did our band would play we opened for some pretty pretty cool bands probably nothing anybody would really know unless you're from Austin but you know as I

lived down there I mean I lived down there for I guess about 15 years and I found out that you can't really make any money playing music in Austin. Everybody's in a band down there. And so there was a big grunge movement in Seattle. And I thought, oh, you know, I'll move there. Well, of course, I was already getting into harder drugs and whatnot. And, you know, you meet a lot of people in the music scene, you know, especially in the punk rock scene, people are very defined, you know.

They have a look about them. And I don't mean that as a negative thing. by any means, you know, you just recognize people. And I'll get back to that later in my story, but I decided to move to Seattle to get a change. My band was going to move there. We were going to bring our flavor and music up there and try to battle the grunge guys

and come out with our hellbilly sound. Of course, at the last minute, most of my band decided not to move there. and I wound up going alone. I met some pretty influential people there, but my music career didn't take off. And so I wound up back in Texas, worse on drugs,

and decided that it was time to change my life. So I went ahead and I got clean the first time. Got back into regular work and things like that. And I still, you know, throughout that whole time, I kept running into a few people. I never knew their names. I never introduced myself. But, like, I would see somebody that I knew from Austin when I lived in Seattle. I didn't, when I say know them, I just say, well, it was somebody that I recognized from one of the clubs I played at.

So that's not too uncommon, I guess, because they both have a really heavy-duty music scene. But what I found out later was that these people, there's two for sure that I know of. I guess I was the only one seeing them. I know that sounds just crazy and really weird. and, you know, at first I thought it was, oh, the drugs or whatever, you know. Anyway, I was starting to notice differences with me. How did you find out that you were the only one seeing these people? I had gone to a friend of mine and with the girl that I was dating,

and it was the middle of the day. We got out of the car and we started walking towards her apartment, of this other girl's apartment and this other car pulled up and these three girls got out and I had was telling my girlfriend I said yeah I

I keep seeing that girl all over the place I saw her in Seattle I met her here and I saw her in Seattle and now I see her again and she's with those other two girls because it was on my mind and my girlfriend was like what are you talking about? I'm like that red car.

She got out of the back seat. She goes, my girlfriend's like, you're talking about, well, she said that heavyset girl or she identified the girl as being, you know, overweight or whatever, not the one that extra, but you mean with that heavyset girl? And I said, yeah, but the one with the black hair, the punk rock girl.

She goes, there was only two girls there. No, no. You just didn't see her, I guess. You know, she goes, no, I'm telling you, there was only two girls there. I saw them. I was looking at what they were wearing. You know, girls are always checking out each other's clothes or whatever I guess. I don't know.

But she swore up and down there was only two, and I'm like, I was absolutely sure there was three. The girl that you saw that your girlfriend said was not there. Did that girl ever acknowledge you? Did you ever notice that that girl looking at you or, you know, kind of, you know, kind of of singling you out as far as acknowledging that you're there noticing her? She must have been at a half a dozen of my shows. We had locked eyes. We ran in the same circle of people.

I mean, I didn't know her name. I never asked about her, but it was one of those people that, you know, you just recognize you see all over the place. She was in the scene, in the music scene. Okay. And, you know, so I, I, like, never really knew anybody that knew her, but, I mean, you just remember people that are, like, you know, dressed differently. And this girl was always dressed, you know, punk rock.

She always wore the same thing. I mean, flesh and blood, I swear to God, she was there. It wasn't some kind of, you know, apparition or something. I mean, she was solid. I just don't have an explanation for that. And there is a time when I saw her later in life as well. And that was in where I live now. And I tried to, you know, tried to chase her down around the aisle.

And there was nothing. Like she was gone. Wow. I mean, it's so unbelievable. It almost sounds trivial or phony. But, I mean, you know, I look back on a lot of the stuff that happened to me, and I think, did that really happen? I mean, was I going crazy at that point in my life? But, you know, I was clean from drugs at that time.

So at any rate, I moved back up north. My father was sick. He had gotten cancer. And I had gotten clean, you know, right after I found out and then eventually moved up here to be close to family and support my mom and stuff. And then, of course, right after my dad passed, I spun out again, but only for a short time. And it was less than a month. And I got myself clean and I moved a little bit further north. you know, about an hour and a half away from where my mom and where I grew up.

And that's when things started to get really, really weird. I had, I was doing opiates, and I had used methadone to, you know, to come down off of the opiates as a slow withdrawal process. And I got down to a certain point and I kept getting sick. I couldn't get off it. So I flew to Detroit. and I did this thing called rapid detox. Well, I died three times on the table because I have sleep apnea during that process.

They were going to stop it and then they decided, well, we're too far into it. We're just going to have to go for it. And I came out okay. But when I woke up from that procedure, I felt different. I mean, I definitely felt different. Um, my vision was blurry for about two weeks. I didn't sleep for, well, probably about 10 days and I didn't eat for almost a month. Um, that's how sick that stuff made me.

Um, I kind of take nurse me back to health and I started college and stuff. And, um, you know, things were starting to get back to normal. Well, he moved, he kind of moved out. Not that he was really moved in, but he moved on and things started. It was really kind of the cheapest one, you know, something I could afford well being in college. And I kept hearing knocks and people walking around on the floors and stuff while I'm asleep and all kinds of stuff. And I'm going to be really honest here. I was scared, bro.

There was nights I slept in my Jeep with my cat, you know. One night, I had woke up to go use the bathroom. I wear glasses. And, you know, you don't need that to use the restroom. I opened my door. Straight ahead, if you look down my hallway, my couch was in the living room. And I didn't have my glasses on. I could have swore there was somebody sitting on my couch.

And so I jumped back in and I slammed the door. Now, granted, I was. was already scared from all the stuff that was going on, the Knox and the, you know, things like that. I was watching those ghost hunter shows. That's kind of when that got popular. And so I thought, oh, this is just a figment of my imagination. But I definitely thought I saw that figure. So I slammed the door.

I jumped back in my room and I'm like, oh, shoot, there's, well, that's not exactly what I said. But, oh, my God, there's somebody in my house. excuse me, I should call somebody and, well, it's 2 o'clock in the morning, who are you going to call? And what are you going to say if you do call? So I put my glasses on and I opened the door and I looked and there wasn't anybody on the couch. I knew there wouldn't be anybody on the couch, but there was this girl, a young girl, peaking around the wall down the hall. down the hallway in my house.

And she had black eyes too. I mean, like, no, well, it was just dark. I don't know if her eyes were black or she didn't have me. So I quick slam the door and I was freaking out. And I tried to call a couple of people and I threw on some clothes and I ran out of the house and spent another night in my Jeep in the driveway with the cat. It's waking up, you know, at 3 a.m. almost every day. Why, I don't know.

But, you know, I'm just so tired. I couldn't even shower before work, but I was working in a sweatshop in a factory. And I'd get to work and my friends are like, dude, what happened to your neck? And I'm like, what? And I'd look and I'd feel. And I could feel these raised marks on my neck. And I'd go in the bathroom and I'd look and I'd be like, oh, my God, there scratches all over me. My cats are declawed.

So I knew it wasn't. I only had one cat at that time. I knew it wasn't her. I would have felt it anyway. Things were starting to get really weird there. About a month of that, I had got work. I was offered, you know, they told them I was honest with my doctor. I was in recovery and they said, you know, they did x-ray face.

said, look, you've got a, you know, bursa that's blown out in your back. You need surgery. And I didn't have any insurance. I'm like, you know, I don't know what to do here. I could have watched my life crumble or I could get on medication and continue to work until I could afford it. So thinking that I could use the medication responsibly, I chose that route. And, of course, I failed, which was a miserable feeling. I mean, I felt like I just didn't care anymore.

You know, my house is haunted. I'm seeing things that aren't there to a priest, and he told me I needed a psychiatrist. Are you serious? Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, he wouldn't help me. Wow. He was and stuff all over me.

I guess he probably thought I was... That shouldn't matter. Some whack job. That shouldn't matter. That frustrates me. I'm sorry. He wasn't... He wasn't...

He wasn't the only priest that turned me away. I went to three churches, and they all basically told me I needed psychological help. And I knew that wasn't it. And I was just at my lowest point. I was using so much drugs, I should have been dead. And when I say that, you know, a lot of people say that. But I'm talking, I would get my prescription of the strongest oxycotton that they had at the time, which were 80s. And that would be gone in three days.

That's a lot. 90 of them. I should have been dead, but I never even felt it. So what I did was I reached out to the person that helped me get clean before, and I said, I don't know what to do, messed up, I'm seeing things, I'm crazy, I don't know what's going on, and he goes, you need to go see this lady. And so this was in like 2008. I reached out to this lady for a first of her.

from work after finding a bunch more scratches on me. And I got to jump back a little bit. I was dating a girl at that time, and she saw the scratches on my neck, and she's like, that goes all the way under your shirt. I'm over at her house, and she would lift up your shirt, and I lifted it up, and there was just scratches all over me on my back, on my sides, under my arms, all the way going up my neck. And when I lifted up my shirt, tears just fell out of my face, dude.

I was, I had my wits and lady so-and-so. I don't really have permission to use his name, but he said that you might be able to help me. I don't even know what my problem is. And she goes, just calm down. I can help you. Well, it turns out she's a Reiki master. And she had some abilities. and this is going to sound really trivial again.

Like it's not real, but it happened. She had asked me to come over. And by the way, I was journaling all this stuff. When it started happening and I started talking to my mom, my mom said, write everything down. That's good advice. My mom also told me, yeah, my mom also told me when this stuff started happening,

that this runs in my family, by the way, which would have been nice. to know prior to that point, but it is what it is. So I go and I see this lady and she says, so this is how I work. You know, you talk about what's bothering you and you may hear me mumbling or whatever. That's how, that's my version of prayer. That's how I talk to who I need to talk to to, to get guidance and this and that. And I'm like, you know, at this point I was so desperate, I was like, well, you know, anything.

I'll try anything because I didn't know what was going on. And I started talking and reading to her from the journal that I had

and she started making some of these mumbling noises. Well, when I was a little kid, I used to make up these rhymes in my head, you know,

and I would like say them over and over and one of them really stands out and I'm sitting across from her at her house and she starts mumbling that rhyme

that I had said when I was a little kid like I used to say it all the time and she was mumbling that rhyme it freaked me out really bad it's like she looked into my soul you know anyway she did I saw her about four times

and she did these what she called the shamanic bands of power and when she did them, I saw light flashes in the room. I mean, it was really, really crazy. You know, hanging in front of my face and whatnot. But anyway, she had completed, and I had told her what I was seeing after she completed this thing. And she said, you shouldn't be afraid now.

And I said, I feel completely different. I'm actually not afraid. I felt empowered. And that was a feeling I hadn't felt in a long time. Maybe never. So was she Native American? Okay. No, she was like a little old lady.

She was like a grandmother. She was an angel, some sort to me. I mean, that's all I can really, I'm getting a little emotional, dude. I'm sorry, man. I needed answers, you know. All this stuff happened to me. She had removed the people from my house. The spirit.

One was a girl and one was a guy that didn't want to leave. And she had come by and she removed these people from my house. She cleared it. She had told me, she said, you know, I asked her, I'm like, I need to know why this happened to me. And she's like, you know, that some stuff is just best left alone. And I didn't. didn't listen to her. You know, I probably should have thinking back now, but, you know, that's, that's why what Jim Wilhelmson said was so, that's why I struck a nerve. I mean,

here I am. She had told me I was empathic. My mom told me I was empathic, and I just thought, you know, at first I thought it was a bunch of hooey, but realizing, after what I'd been through that, yeah, I feel other people's feelings. But I needed answers. Why did I get picked? Was it because I did drugs? And by the way, I'm in recovery now. I've been just coming up on 10 years clean, by the way.

Congratulations. Thank you, thank you. There's been a couple of your podcasts that have really touched home for me. Jason was, or I don't if I should mention his name, but a couple of the podcasts that were really, really hit home for me. And that's how I knew I needed to call you. I started a ghost hunting team the same year I went to college. Went to college to become an alcohol and drug counselor, which I have been doing for the last seven years. normal team we were just trying to help people like me you know i'd found a couple of guys

actually one was uh my ex-girlfriend's son who was um 30 or 27 27 at the time and uh the guy that had helped me um when he when i got back from detroit and had that procedure uh they were both into it and they wanted to do this thing with me. And so we set off to try to help people. Well, what we found out a little bit of advertising, you know, everybody and their brother thinks their house is haunted. And we were spending all this time and money on equipment and not really catching any evidence or getting any answers. And maybe that's selfish. I don't know. but we decided that we would stick to the places that we knew there would be some spiritual interaction. That probably wasn't a good decision on my part, which I found out later.

But we went to places like, you know, Valiska. The first time we went to Valiska, have you ever heard of the Axe Murder House? I have, yes. So I had talked to you. to Darwin Lynn and Johnny Hauser, who Darwin's gone now, God bless him.

But Johnny Hauser had opened it up to doing overnights there and we thought well, this is a great way to kick it out. And so we went and we stayed the night there. And of course, a lot of people

had stayed there and a lot of people have investigated it. And, you know, I had asked Johnny what's the best way to get these spirits woke up? And he goes, well, I would probably provoke the living crap out of them. And, you know, I'm a very upfront, forward guy. And, of course, we were wanting to have the time of our lives and come out with all the answers.

So that's what I did. Well, I was in the attic. and some pretty cool EVPs. Of course, we didn't know it at the time because we were just recording and walking around and, you know, doing isolation sessions, things like that.

But I had gotten scratched on my back. And that brought back a lot of stuff for me. In fact, I got really upset over it. You know, it reminded me of some of the things that had gone on with me. that was our first trip there. We caught EVPs telling us to die. We caught a residual EVP of the children being slaughtered in the house.

It was really, but that's a place that calls you back, you know. And after the first time we went, we had gone to a place called Bachelors Grove Cemetery and a couple other cemeteries, and we were respectful there. I had gone to the Chicago Ghost Conference with my IT guy, and I had talked to Chris Fleming. He used to have a show on A&E and stuff, and I don't believe he's a sensitive or a medium, I'm not sure, but I'd talked to him about what went on with me,

and he had explained that, you know, likely I had this attachment when I was using it, that's why I was able to do all those drugs and not be affected by them. And, you know, yeah, I did have a tolerance. I mean, there's no way I should have lived through that. I believe that. I lived through it because there was a calling for me, you know. I firmly believe that now. But I was confused at the time.

And, yeah, Chris Leaming had kind of gave me a rundown on what his thoughts were and all these lights started coming on for me and, you know, explanations popping into my head. And even my IP guy was like, yeah, dude, that sounds about right. And I just find that odd that something can attach to you that way. And supposedly it was clear of any attachments while we were ghost hunting. And I did that all through school back to Valiska because we did not, well, they wanted to go back. After we had gotten all the evidence the first time, they wanted to go back and try some different experiments.

And I was open to it. I'm not going to lie. I wanted to go back to, I mean, that place kind of, it gets a hold of you and it calls you back. I know people that have been there half a dozen times or more. And I went back there. And I was in an isolation session in the attic again. And I don't know if you know about the crime there, but the person that did that was a real coward

and saying some negative things about him being a child molester and some of the things that he had done to that family and felt like some dust because I just started coughing and whatnot. And this was a chain of events here. So you kind of got to stay with me on this. But it was like someone threw fine dust right into my mouth as I was breathing in or something because I just like all of a sudden couldn't breathe. And they were watching me on video, watching me cough and whatnot.

And so they came and got me out of there. Well, as soon as I got out of there, I felt okay. I remember my phone ringing in my pocket. it was silenced, but it was vibrating in my pocket when, right when that happened. And I got down there, we got outside, and I could breathe fine, and everything was fine. Well, my IT guy is, he's filming me, and he's like, you know, I'm like, we shut the camera off. I don't want, you know, I was kind of freaked out, you know. something wasn't right

and he pointed out that I had a bunch of well what he what I it looked like a handprint dude I'm not you know

I mean it looked like I had a handprint down my throat and that's not even the crazy part of the story I went in the bathroom and I looked and I'm like you know I don't want anybody to see this

you know I was embarrassed I was confused. I was going through a lot of emotions at the time. They shut the camera off and we were trying to process it. And then I remembered that my phone had rung. I pulled out my phone and I looked and it was my ex-girlfriend, my friend, one of my guys' moms, but she was calling my phone. And we weren't together anymore. And I said, dude, your mom called right at the same time I couldn't breathe. So you should call her or something, find out what she wants.

So he does. Well, she says, I got this really weird feeling that something was wrong, and I decided to call you immediately because you need to be taking care of my boy while you're up there. Wow. Yeah, it was at the exact same time. It was just this whole event of weird things. And I didn't want to go back in that house, man. That was my night.

It wasn't even 10 o'clock, and I wouldn't go back in there. So those guys pretty much finished up that investigation, and I think that was about the last one we did. Actually, it's not the last one. There was one more. But the paranormal maybe wasn't my gig. But anyway, we had gotten back, And I'd, sometime later, we had all this equipment, sometime later, a female had called us and a woman had called us.

Actually, she's really important. I mean, she's a great friend. And actually, we're pretty close. She had bought this. And this was about five years ago. And she bought a hospital? Yeah, she bought this old hospital. She wanted to remodel it into her home, into a home because she has a lot of kids and she takes care of her mom and her brother.

And the place was haunted. We had actually investigated it prior when we still were investigating, you know, around local. So anyway, she had gotten our name from the person that she had bought it from, that we had investigated it. and that's how I met her. And she asked if we could come back and tell her what was going on in the house. Is it safe for her to bring her kids, all this and that? And so we did an investigation. We found some stuff.

We put it on a disc and we brought it in there and showed her that, you know, what we had caught. And it was just a few things. You know, a lot of it was, you know, could have just been dust and orbs and stuff like that. We didn't ever orb evidence unless it, you know, had a picture in it or if it was, you know, giving off its own life. But there was a lot of voices and some other things happening. And we did a Franks box session in there.

And there was, you know, got told to get out a lot of times and a lot of cussing and whatnot on there. And, you know, I didn't feel it was safe for her to move her family into, especially if she was going to be renovated. it because the world knows that renovations cause hauntings. So anyway, she asked me if I could clear it, and I didn't exactly know how to do that. I wasn't practicing a lot of Christian faith at that point. And so I called on a friend of mine, Angela Ashton. She used to, well, she's helped a lot of people. and she's a Facebook friend of mine.

I knew that she had the skills and knew what to do, and I talked to her, and she advised against me doing it. But I didn't know what else to do or who else to call. And so she had given me the instructions, and very explicit instructions, which I followed to the teeth. I mean, there was a pentagram painted on the floor in this building. So there was evil stuff going on there beforehand? Right. Well, I think that might have opened up the door. And so Angela gave me the information on how to close that pentagram and also how to clear it room by room. There's like a hundred rooms in this building. It's four floors and it's a whole city block. I got there at about nine o'clock in the morning, sent the entire day clearing it. Things got really crazy. The pentagram

room was last. Things got really crazy near the end, door slamming, stuff like that. I finished it. I was just spent, you know, and I left and I'm like, that's it. I'll never, I'll never do another paranormal thing. And I haven't since then, but my life took a dive. I didn't relapse or anything, but after that happened, my life, my life took a dive, man, everything was darkness. and you don't know what I mean by that. What I mean is one thing after another going wrong. You know, try to do the next right thing and you get kicked in the face. Try to help somebody and they steal.

Do something nice for somebody and they take it the wrong way. I mean, everything that's negative that possibly could have happened. You know, maybe that's a coincidence. But that went on for, about a year had developed a relationship with this girl and just say environmental factors prevented us from being together, I believe, related to this building. She's an awesome chick, you know, excuse me, a woman. And I love her at death, but, you know, she did finally move into that house and see each other, but I have not been in there since. We disbanded the paranormal

team and uh you know i moved on to finally got my life turned around into a positive direction and you know basically the whole paranormal thing and you know i look back on that now tony and i just i think to myself sometimes i i just i i can't even say it was real you know that's how crazy it was at one point or many points. And, you know, when I heard what Jim said the other day, I was like, God, that is so right on. That is so dead on. You know, lately I've been very attracted to the whole Saskwads research thing. And, you know, now I'm wondering, is this the next chapter in my life now?

because there's a lot of unanswered questions in that situation. You know, what is it? Is it the nephalum? Is it flesh and blood, you know, the woo factor? Because I certainly know, I don't believe it is, you certainly got to ask yourself, if you've seen what I've seen, is it possible? Well, yeah, it is. That's kind of where I'm at.

My life has been put back together and there was a lot of other things that I probably could have gone into, but that's really the summary of what happened to me. And, you know, if you poke around and stuff that you shouldn't be, you might just be sorry for it, you know. Yeah, absolutely. You know, with all this stuff that had going on in your life, what made you just keep going back to it? I mean, I know you kind of alluded to it earlier stuff as to you weren't sure why, but do you have any sense as to what was drawing you to these situations? I mean, you've been through so much and there was so much that had scared you in the past, yet you continue to put yourself in situations to open yourself up to these entities. Do you have any idea why that would be?

Well, once I lost that fear and I got those bands of power, what she had called bands of power, I've looked it up. There is shamanic bands of power. Once I lost that fear, I needed answers, you know? And it took one of those guys, as you can see, I've relapsed a bunch of times. I have to learn my lesson about five times or four times. It actually sticks.

But I don't know, man. It's just like ballista. That place, it calls you back and it calls you back. And a lot of guys that have been there, they always say, this is it, one more time. And then, boom, they wind up going again. I don't know how Johnny. Johnny lives next door to it. I have no idea how he goes in that house and cleans it every day and shows people around

in there. I know his life has been affected. His house has been affected. His kids, maybe not so much. He must do a lot of things to protect them. I don't have an answer for you, Tony. I guess it's the short answer. These kind of things, they call you back.

You know, it's like when you don't feel like something's quite done and you're one of those guys that have to finish everything. I guess that's me in a nutshell. I got you. You know, earlier... I guess listening to it from the outside, excuse me, it probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I wouldn't say that.

I wouldn't say it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I was just asking you for your thoughts a little bit more deeply on that because you're not the only one that... that has gone through that stuff and kind of almost like a glutton for punishment and keep going back to it. Earlier, you mentioned about some things that had happened early on, and you mentioned about how you kind of wanted to call somebody for help, but you didn't know who to call and, you know, do you call 911 in those situations? you know, and I find it funny because a lot of times people will say, well, why didn't you call for help?

Why didn't you talk to somebody? Why didn't you take a picture or whatever it is? But when you're in those moments, all of a sudden the script has been flipped and you're now the crazy person that's seeing these things. And all of a sudden, all the people that you thought you would call are no longer viable options in your mind in the moment. Is that how you felt? yeah you're absolutely right and you know i think a big part of it is fear and it's funny that you say that because i listen to west's show and your show and and there's all these guys that you know they go out they look for softwatch and and you know and then they have their sighting and they get so scared or they have or people have a sighting and they're they weren't expecting it and they're

totally freaked out and scared by it And then all of a sudden, they're in the woods every weekend trying to find evidence and research and trying to find answers. So I guess you could compare this the same way. I mean, I'm kind of going down that road too. When we were out hunting, deer hunting last year, you know, my buddy said he thought he saw something. We walk over there and there's a limb arched over top and there's a limb arched over off. and there's a tree structure there that's just impossible to fall naturally. And it was right by where he said it was standing.

However, no tracks in the snow. I mean, there was dry areas where the snow didn't fall, so it could have gone. And I'm no expert tracker when it comes to, you know, I can hunt a blood trail. But past that on a frozen ground, I'm probably not much. good as a woodman, you know. But even that little taste of that got me interested in, you know, trying to research more. And, you know, I guess I guess I'm just that guy.

Maybe I don't learn. I don't know. Well, I mean, you're not the only one. There's a lot of people out there that just kind of, dive into these kind of things, you know, I'm one of them, you know, to a certain extent. I don't typically go ghost hunting, but the whole Bigfoot thing, I've been known to go out in the woods and go off trail for miles. So earlier you were talking about, you know, your situation in your house and how you were watching ghost shows. And I wanted to ask you, what's your gut feeling

when it came to you watching ghost shows and the activity happening in the house, do you think it was related with your gut feeling? Do you think that maybe watching these shows and getting so enthralled into the show kind of encouraged something to manifest in your house? No, not power of suggestion, not at all. Actually, more along the lines of,

do you think that the activity that was happening in your house maybe it was spawned by your enthusiasm into the topic through watching the shows. I'm not really sure because I was watching the shows. I started watching the shows after these things started happening, you know, to find out if there was any reality to it. And like some of the things they were doing on there, like if that was you make a knocking sound. And, you know, I did.

that in my kitchen and I got a response and I thought, you know, because there was a knock right next to my head shortly after I just saw it on, I think I was watching destination truth or something like that. I don't know. It happened right next to my head right after I saw it and I'm like, huh, if that was you, do that twice and nothing happened for about, I'd say 30 seconds and then all sudden I was kind of forgetting about it and then boom boom right next to my head on my on my kitchen counter and I just freaked out I started swearing and yelling and you know I was out of control scared and of course another night in the jeep with my cat you know which she did she would see things she would look and she would see things and I knew

that she was seeing something because what's there to look at over there on that blank wall and she would follow it with her head and I'm not seeing anything but of course eventually I would see you know shadows and I don't know

if they were shadow people or if there was just movement I tried to like say it was just lights from outside but yeah I think you know honestly I think those shows they definitely open doors for people that are sensitive or open. And I will tell you, you know, something that I left out,

you know, I told you that my mom had mentioned that this stuff runs in our family. That lady that I went and saw the Reiki Master, I was having a lot of trouble separating my feelings from other people's feelings. Like, I was an emotional wreck, Tony. I'm not going to, I'm not going to lie, man. crying half the time

I was it was it was just a horrible time but what she excuse me what she had me do was go to the mall

and sit in the food court or in a common area and watch people walk by and when I picked up on their feelings I could tell that that wasn't my feeling and then when they get out of sight I would lose that feeling

and that's how I was able to start learning how to, you know, discern between my own and somebody else's. Now, since that period of time, that has kind of gone away. My mom, she would call it a gift. I called it a curse. It was horrible, Tony. It was horrible. I'm so glad that part of my life is over.

You know, my girlfriend now still lives in that building and we're, you know, getting closer again and at some point I may have to step back in that building. I had left. She had other investigators come in after I had closed that or thought that I had closed that entire place or sealed it or cleared it or whatever you want to call it. And she invited paranormal teams because she didn't get the answers that she needed. that apparently when I cleared it, things were still happening. And so she's still there, and I worry about her every day.

Yeah, I mean, that's understandable. I mean, there's an emotional, it's not like it was just a stranger or anything like that. It's there's an emotion behind it. There's an existing relationship. So I can definitely understand that. You know, I keep backtracking here, but I wanted to ask you about, about that night you were in your house, you open up the door,

and you think you see somebody sitting on your couch. You slam the door shut. You get your glasses on. You open the door again. There's nobody there. But there's a little girl peering around the corner, and her eyes were black. You probably know my next question.

Black-eyed kids, do you think that there's a connection there, or do you think it's just a coincidence? because everything that I've learned so far about the whole black-eyed kid phenomenon is that they ask you to invite them into the house or into your car, and they will not enter your house or car without you actually saying, yeah, get it in, you know, come on in or something like that. What are your feelings about that? I've heard about the phenomenon myself. Back then, there wasn't any such phenomenon that I'd heard of.

of when that happened. I rarely had anybody over there because I was so embarrassed. Nobody wanted to come over there. I mean, you could tell when you walked up to the place that you just didn't want to be there. I'm not sure if that girl had black eyes or if she had no eyes and they were just empty sockets. but I definitely the whole black-eyed children's phenomenon there isn't much I don't believe

Tony after what I've seen you know when somebody comes to me and they say like I work in the you know with mental health people and stuff like that and I got to tell you when I hear things about you know people with mental health issues saying they're hearing voices

and I hear the clinical diagnosis and whatnot. And I can't help but thinking, well, how do you know they're not hearing voices and how do you know those voices aren't real? You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. I think sometimes we over-diagnose. Yeah, I mean, and that's, I know that, I know that fear, you know.

I know that fear that, that, can you imagine, Imagine living with something like, well, skipstaprenia or something like that where your ears voices. And you think they're real, just like me seeing, well, what I call extras, you know, those people that were in Austin and Seattle or that girl that was in Austin and Seattle. And also up here, she wasn't real, but why was she connected to me? and if she's somebody there to protect me i don't know those are answers i never found out and you know i don't need to know that anymore um you know what along those lines with what you call the extras uh when you were describing them you said that they were flesh and blood like that's what they looked like now i guess you don't necessarily believe that

their flesh and butt, but that's what you had the feeling of, that they were real people standing right there. Am I correct in saying that? You absolutely could not have told me that they weren't at the time. But I've had a couple of people say there's no one there. That person was not there. And me, you know, I just, you know, I just I think I see at that time, well, maybe even still now, I don't know. I haven't seen her in a long time, but maybe I was seeing somebody that was supposed to be part of my life. I certainly looked like flesh and blood certainly seemed to be part of the group that she was with when I was with Kathy and we ran into them in the parking lot. it seemed like those three were together.

And then I think back and I'm like, well, I never heard her talk, but she was like with them like part of, like she was part of the, you know, their little posse. I mean, you know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. I don't know. I don't know. I can't explain it.

I'll tell you what. You know, most people know I'm a Christian and I put a lot of weight in what the Bible says. And I'll tell you, when you talk. told me that one of the first things that popped in my head was a scripture verse, Hebrews 13 verse 2. The author of Hebrews, I personally feel the author of Hebrews is Paul, the Apostle Paul, but a lot of people will say it's an unknown author. So, but I'll say Paul wrote this. Paul says, don't forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing, some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it. And when you told me that, that's the first thing that

that kind of popped into my mind because, like you said, you described it as something, it seemed so real. The girls just was there. It was a real person, but nobody else saw it. And that's when it just popped in my head because Paul says that there's going to be times that you're going to be around angels and you're not even going to know it. So show hospitality to everybody because sometimes you might be showing hospitality to an angel. And that just kind of, I'm not saying that's what it was, but what I'm saying is that's the first thing to pop to my head. So I don't know if that, you know, does anything for you, but that's what I was thinking.

well exactly how many of these people that i have seen you know because i know too for sure the girl stands out the most because she was at a bunch of my shows you know i was a front man i i was of course looking at the girls at the time when i was you know i mean i was i was not always a stand-up guy when it came to girls in relationships. And she was at at least a half a dozen of my shows. And I'd run into her probably four or five times at other places. It's just one of those people that you know, but you don't really know. And, you know, to see her in three different cities in basically three corners of the country,

somebody sure would like to know, you know? I mean, I didn't get a negative vibe from her. It scared me because I thought that maybe my mental health was slipping, but now I know that, you know, it isn't. It wasn't. You know, this stuff did happen. And there's nothing that anybody could say or do to make me change that. And what you just said, I always, you know, my recovery is really big in my life.

And I always try to do the next right thing and not judge other people. And some of the things I may have said here tonight, you know, I hope that people don't judge me. My life is all about helping people now. I was a taker for a lot of years, and now I'm a giver. And I have a huge heart. and people take advantage of that sometimes and that's okay you know it's not going to change the way I do

for the next person I'm cool with that I guess call it a life lesson yeah well I mean it's really cool that you know you've experienced a turn around your personal life the whole paranormal stuff aside the fact that you've been able to have a turnaround

and now you're giving back to people who are in need like you were at one time man that just shows the heart that you have and I'm glad you shared that really because there's a lot of people out there like you you say you hope people don't judge you but I think most people can relate because whether they were into the drug thing or something else like everybody's got a dirty secret everybody's got a past everybody's got stuff in their closet that they try to hide because they're just not proud of it, you know? And you coming forward and just, you know, being real, that creates an environment, that creates an environment for other people to be real as well.

And, you know, I really appreciate you sharing that, really. I really do. Because, you know, just what the show is about, man, like we share our experiences so other people can feel comfortable to share their experiences. And that's just, that's not just with paranormal, Bigfoot, whatever. Like, that's life, you know. So, but here we, here we go on a counseling session on a paranormal show. Yeah, I'm not getting paid for that. No, you know what, man, being able to unload this stuff, I've never opened up to anybody about all of this at once. There's people that know bits and pieces, but I've never, like, been able to unload the whole thing at once.

And, you know, I just, I want to thank you for, you know, listening and, you know, being so polite and also offering up your take and the scripture and stuff that really made me feel good. You know, I probably need to work on the spirituality piece of my recovery I always have. And, you know, maybe that's just a kick in the pants that I need to get there. And so I really appreciate, you know, you've given me this opportunity to be on here. and I really want to say to the others that have been on your show, you know, one in particular, I'm not going to use his name, but, you know, he touched Facebook when he was little. Episode 17, Jason, that's fine.

Yeah, man, I see what a great guy he is. He's Facebook friends with me now, and what an awesome dude. he's reached out to me a couple of times and we've, you know, had a little bit of a chance to chat, but, you know, what an awesome world we live in where, you know, the social media can be used for good for once, you know what I mean? Absolutely. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.

And, you know, you're not the only person that has reached out to me wanting to communicate with Jason and stuff. A lot of people have been affected by what he had to say. that day. So, you know, it's just another episode that we did that, you know, had deep-rooted emotions attached to it that helped other people sort through things. But, man, I really appreciate you coming on here, Jack, and just, you know, sharing your story and, you know, being you, just opening up and just sharing what you had and letting other people hear what you had to say, man.

Yeah, Tony. Thank you. You got it, man. And if you have any other things that, you know, happened to you down the road or something, feel free to reach out and talk to me about it. I'm all the ears, man. Thanks, brother. Appreciate you. All right, man. I'll talk to you later. Well, that's the show, everybody. I really hope you enjoyed it. It's a show where it's just for you to come on here and share your story and experiences for other people to hear and kind of get it off your chest. So I'm glad I'm accomplishing those goals. But until next show, friends, I really hope you guys have a great week at work or if you're on vacation. Whatever you're doing, I hope you guys have a great time

and find yourself smiling more than not. I'll talk to you guys later. Bye.