The Confessionals - RELOADED | 258: My Friend The Hatman

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

On Episode 258: My Friend The Hatman, we speak with Jackie who has had a relationship with a Hatman-like entity for her entire life. Jackie details her experiences with the entity, and how she feels it is actually her protector from other harmful, evil things. She also shares other unusual and paranormal experiences, including her interaction with a Native American spirit named Eu who protects children in a church nursery, a trip to the underground fire town of abandoned Centralia, Pennsylvania, and much more!Become a member for ad-free listening, extra shows, and exclusive access to our social media app: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinThe Confessionals Social Network App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZMy New YouTube ChannelMerkel IRL: @merkelIRLMy First Sermon: Unseen BattlesSasquatch and The Missing Man: merkelfilms.comMerkel Media Apparel: merkmerch.comSPONSORSSIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/theconfessionals/Discord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelProduced by: @jack_theproducer

Merkel Media I guess it's time to go back in time Are you telling me you built a time machine Out of a Dolion Time is but a stubborn illusion I have a lot of memories

Of the past People are time traveling within themselves Time travel Is possible This was all circulating around the base that a giant had been killed but no one was supposed to talk about it. Boney fingers, reach up

underneath the door, curl up to grab it and then disappear. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen. And he starts running

and firing up this giant. With a giant moves, he's got a spear in one hand and he's running really fast and spears Dan and holds him up like this. Somebody else. Shoot them in the face. Shoot them in the face.

They basically decapitated. And I look over and there are two push and because I know I'm seeing a monster. Okay. I reload it. Welcome to the show, everybody. You're listening to The Confessionals. I am your host, Tony Merkel. Thank you for being here. If you've had an encounter or story you'd like to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email or go to the website, the confessionalspodcast.com. Hit the contact section and you can reach me that way as well.

Either it works for me, just get a hold of me. And if you want more shows every week, we got member episodes that come out on Thursdays, every Thursdays. So if you want to hear all the previous shows and all the future shows that come out on Thursdays, go to the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the join button and become a member today. Now, let's get to the business. This week we have Jackie coming on the show, and Jackie is actually local to me, and she shares a lot of her experiences with a hat man that she actually kind of has a relationship with

throughout her life and she has a very positive outlook with this thing that follows her around. We also talk about her experiences going up to Centralia, Pennsylvania, which has an underground fire that's been going longer than I've been alive. The town has been abandoned. It's now a ghost town. They highly recommend people not go there because of all the toxic fumes that are in the air, but people go up there to do ghost hunting and to see what's going on up there because the ground is literally melting from this fire that is burning for decades. Let's get to the show right now. All right. Today we got Jackie on the show. Jackie, how are you? I'm doing good. How are you, Tony? I'm doing fine. Doing fine. So you're actually local to me, very local to me. So I've been talking

a lot of local people recently to me, which is kind of cool. But so we were just talking a little bit about, you know, different spots in the area and stuff, very familiar with it. But you grew up in this area. And you've had numerous experiences. And we're going to talk about Shadow Men today. Then we're even going to talk about your trip to Centralia, which is very interesting. If anybody doesn't know what Centralia is, it's basically an abandoned town that is on fire underground from the coal mines. And it's supposedly haunted as well. And we'll even talk a little bit about possible Bigfoot activity in New York, too. So why don't you just start us off, though, from the beginning, childhood, Shadow Man, you go. All right, Tony. So yeah, super local. I've grown up here my entire life. Even my parents have been here. I went to Twin Valley High School. So super local. When I was very, very, very young, my mom and dad lived in this really tiny apartment. And my dad was getting ready to run out for a beer. So my mom knew he wasn't going to be home for a minute. And she was just basically hanging around the house. When she thinks she hears the door open and close. So she shouts down, hey, I'm going to go take a shower thinking my dad just got back. So she runs and she gets into the shower and finishes up and then she comes out. And this is kind of the weird part. So the shower bathroom combo was right outside her bedroom where my crib was.

And over my crib, there was a dark, shadowy figure kind of reaching his hand out to me. Like you would kind of like talk to a baby. and she just absolutely was, you know, she didn't flip out, she didn't scream or anything, but she was just like, oh my God, what's going on? Like, there is something trying to get my baby. I'm the first baby. So, you know, she was still learning about it. It was all new.

But it absolutely terrified her. And she says that it kind of just looked up at her and then was gone. She really doesn't talk much about it. But the crazy part of how it kind of came about was that I told my mom, I told my mom I wasn't scared of ghosts. And she was like, what? How are you not scared of ghosts? You're a little kid.

And this is obviously a few years later. And I said, well, I have my shadow man. He's going to protect me. And she just totally lost it. Yeah. Because she'd never told me about him before. And I told her that I talked to him all the time. He's always here.

So, yeah, I think the first time I heard that my mom knew anything about my shadow man wasn't when I was like 12. So it was pretty crazy. And she says my dad came home like an hour or two after that. And she's like, she wouldn't put me back to my crib. She wouldn't let me go back to sleep in the room by myself. She was like, no, no, we got to watch the baby. Got to watch the baby. And my dad's like, you're just crazy. You were pregnant. You're just crazy now. The 80s. Yeah. But yeah, so that's really where it started for me. It's interesting. Before you go any further, Yeah.

Was this the first and only experience that your mom had with this thing involving you? So my mom says that she's never seen him since. But I know for a fact, like, so I lived in Phoenixville for a while. Right. There's a row homes right across from the steel mill. And I have very distinct memories of going to sleep in my bedroom and looking out at my mom who was on, they were really skinny. townhouses. So the stairs would go up to the attic, but ours was just the third room. It wasn't like a scary attic or anything like that. And she would sit on the stairs and sing to us.

And I have very distinct memories of my shadow man sitting on the stairs behind her, just kind of listening to the music and just relaxing. And that's one of the first times I really remember thinking that he was a shadow man because I put in my email to you that he's darker than darkness. Yeah. Because I could see him on those stairs. no light. But my brother has never mentioned him and my mom claims that the only time she ever saw him was when he was over my crib. Yeah, you know, that's an interesting detail that you share because a lot of people share similar things with that where they'll be in a dark room yet

they could see the shadow figure because it's actually darker than the dark room around it. And that's what you're saying, right? Almost exactly. Almost like it's pulling whatever light could be there into itself, like how they, I'm also a science nerd. So how they describe a black pole is the reason we know it's a black hole is because it pulls all the light into it, right? So it's darker than the actual darkness of space around it. That's kind of how I feel with him. I've had other people corroborate that they've seen him finally, but it took me finding a group of people who saw ghosts on the regular. But yeah, so my mom just claims she never even knew about him. I mean, and he would be in my room and we'd play and, you know, I'd have full-on conversations and

she just never even, I guess she thought that I was playing with the toy and just being a chatty imaginative kid. Was there ever any detail other than just the shadow itself? I mean, because your mom said that she saw it reach it towards you and then it turned and looked at her. Was it just like more of the body movement that turned and looked at her or did she see a face? So my mom claims that she actually, while she didn't see a face, she didn't see a skin color, she saw very distinct hands. She saw a hat and she says that he was in like overalls, but they weren't.

And this is the part where I have trouble describing because it's how I see him on the regular. You know he's in overalls, but you don't see overalls with your eyes. You kind of get the impression of he's in slouchy comfortable overalls and a nice shirt and a nice hat. but you don't physically get from your eyeballs. You can't see it. But it's like when I go on previously when I've gone on ghost hunts and I've talked to ghosts, you can see them in your head. But that doesn't mean you can see them standing in the room in front of you with your eyes. Yeah, you know. And I won't even ask that that makes sense. Well, I understand what you're saying. And what's really interesting is just yesterday I talked to

a lady who saw pretty much exactly what you just described, a shadow face. that wears overalls that really couldn't tell you the details but knew she she knew a hat overalls on and was wearing a hat and uh that just kind of for me it's kind of chilling to that's cool I just talked to somebody and I think she was in South Carolina or something like that so um you know this again you know we talk about it in the show but this shadow man hat man figure pops up a lot for people and uh you know it's for me it's very interesting to hear the similarities and different stories that people have. And when I say similarities, it's not that I think that what you're seeing is exactly the same entity that that lady yesterday saw. But there are

definitely similarities that makes you feel like maybe they come from the same origin or something. It's just very interesting. But yeah, so I mean, this shadow figure, is it something that you still see today or is this something that, you know, really kind of subsided? No, I still see him to this day. So there are a couple things that have happened since between there and then, but he basically, we have general rules right now. My husband is absolutely not okay, not knowing what else is out there. And he never had really any experiences before he met me.

And we met really young. We've been together since we were, he was, he was 18. I was 17-ish. So he never had experiences before he met. me. And so I try and keep those two lives separate. Um, so he, I see my shadow man, like, he meets me out at the car in the morning. He just knows he can't be in the house. He can't be on the ground. Like, it's very, it's a very, like, he has knowledge. He, it's not like he doesn't know what's going on. He doesn't, you know, he, I ask him not to do something. He

doesn't do it, which is, I know sounds kind of off the wall, but I mean, I've taken him to ghost hunts and I've had other psychics tell me that he's in the room and they go, do you want me to cleanse him? And I'm like, oh my God, no. No, touch him. And then I have to explain and they go, well, you know, having another spirit here can actually interrupt the session. Can you ask him to go outside? And I'm like, oh, yeah, no, if I'd go outside and they're like, oh, my God, he just left. I'm like, well, yeah, you asked me to let him outside. Wow. So I didn't really know. Yeah, I didn't know he was unusual until I started meeting other people who didn't think it was normal. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely not normal. I mean, that that's just, uh, I mean, just being honest.

Most people, most people don't have a shadow figure that they actually have, um, a relationship with. I mean, that's basically what it is. I mean, you, you, there's communication and it's not like you're, uh, it's not like you want him to, or it to go away. Uh, and it seems to listen to you, right? He does. And I actually, um, I started getting into ghost hunting really heavy. in my mid-20s. And I really believe that he kind of helped cabashed it and saved me from a couple different things that I think could have really messed me up.

I really believe in God. I believe in an afterlife. So I also, on that same vein, believe that there are things that get sent here to take us back or to change us or, you know, demons or whatever we want to call them. And he definitely stopped a couple of them just standing in front of me

and saying, this one's mine, basically. So, I mean, some people believe in guardian angels and things like that. I mean, is that similar to what your, with your experiences with this guy? I mean, or is it something totally different? I've never heard of a guardian angel looking the way he does or even acting or communicating as much as he does with me, which is where I kind of, kind of flip-flop on it. I mean, but obviously I've never, and I guess I would say I've never seen a guardian angel, so I don't know. He doesn't protect, like, I've been in car accidents. He didn't help me with that. I've had, you know, I've had injuries. I've had stuff happening to me where it's not like he was like,

maybe you shouldn't get on that horse. It's usually much more spiritual things. Like, I can give you a very specific example that is burned into my memory for the rest of my life. Yeah. I used to teach horseback riding lessons. And one night I was out at the barn and I was picking up my paycheck and I walked into our barns and I don't know if you've ever been riding but usually a very upscale barn will be very long so that we can fit a lot of horses into it and then you're going to want to have multiple light switches so that you can turn lights off in sections which is probably the scariest most unpleasant thing you've ever been to in the middle of the night by yourself to have one end of the barn completely black and you know you're going through

trying to close up turn lights off so we had the far end of the bar end of the bar and you're going to the barn was completely dark because we'd already been through that side. The girls were already gone. I was just going back into the office to pick up my paycheck. And I walk out of the office and close the door and I turn around and I can see something moving down at the bottom of the barn. I know all the horses are locked up and also none of them have like mid weird shaped eyes that are, you know, it's not even at horse level, but you can see the light reflecting back at you, more like a white instead of like a green or a yellow that might get through a deer. It wasn't low enough for a dog.

It wasn't a cat. And then it started to move closer. And it was like in the shadows and made up shadows. So I couldn't really see it. And he was right there in the middle. And I just had this whole feeling of super dread over me where I was like my heart was racing and you're just frozen standing there. you can't move, but he was right there. And he just put a hand up and was like, no further.

And whatever that was, didn't move. And I booked it out of there, got into my teeny little car, just shaking. And basically, I left him there. It's not like he needs to travel in my car or anything. That was weird. Doesn't even hit your ride. Yeah, out of everything that's weird about this situation, that part, you know, be funny if he had to wear a seatbelt.

But I mean like I'm getting chills now trying to tell you about it and it was though I came home to my husband. I was like, oh my God. And he's like, what's wrong? I was like, I think something just tried to take my soul. And he's like, wait, what? And I didn't have any other descriptor for this situation. It just literally felt like something was there to take me away. That's interesting.

And so you're you're experiencing this and you're in, absolute terror from what it sounds like and this thing stands in between you two and it was like it like it knew where it needed to be and yeah and he was there I mean in seconds of be saying this thing he was right there it's really interesting it really is and do you ever wonder if maybe it's um I don't know like in somebody from your family history that for some reason has an attachment to you that wants to protect it's you know I don't know uh family

remember decades later? So I ask a lot of questions. My family is very, very small. I don't know my grandfathers. My grandmothers are wild women. The one ran away from home to join the circus. And that's where she met my dad's dad, who I don't know. The other one was straight off the boat from Ireland. So that side came over new. And I I never met anybody in my family past, you know, my grandmothers. So I really, I don't know why it would take that kind of interest if it was a family member, especially since it didn't take the interest in my aunts or my mom's, just me. I mean, and my little brother, he says he's never seen it, but he's seen a lot of other things.

So I think really the biggest part of it is just we have a really active family. Everyone in my family has, you know, you bring up something and go, oh, well, and then this time I saw that, you know, even one of my uncles has a white woman story. So it's Chester County. It's super active. You never know why. It's active, right? It's just Chester County. Yeah, well, you know, I think you're the first person that I'm having on this show from Chester County. How? How is that possible? The world's a big place, you know, and I guess my show doesn't reach all the corners of the world yet. So, you know. But I'm very interested in hearing these stories, obviously, because it's so local to me. I used to live in Chesa County. I used to live in Phoenixville. So, I mean, very familiar with the places you're describing. And this first experience you're sharing with this shadow figure, which is going to obviously be a recurring thing throughout your life, is very interesting.

It's very interesting because it's like most people don't have a relationship like you're talking about. I mean, from what I've gathered, a lot of people are, like I've said this before, when it comes to the hat man per se, it's usually either a terrifying experience or a pleasant experience. But it's usually not a recurring experience where somebody has this kind of relationship with it. I mean, people might see it multiple times. But in your case, it seems like this thing is around enough that you and it have a relationship and it's bailed you out. several times. And that's, that's, that's wild. Yeah, I, I, I'm not always comfortable with it, because I think everyone always has that thought in their head, like, oh my gosh, am I just a lunatic? Um, but I, I, I know, I know, um, but like I've been able to cooperate with, like I said, with other people who I am mildly certain are more sane than I am, put it that way. Um, but yeah, I mean, the relationship that I,

end up having with them. It's not like, it's not like every day I'll see him. It'll be, I'll go out to my car in the morning and maybe something's feeling a bit off. And I'll be like, oh, hey, are you here? And you just kind of sense him or it'll be a full body apparition where you're like, oh, no, you're right over there. And I kind of don't go outside at night anymore. And really, it's more of like a need thing. I mean, you know, you get your house, you get your job. You just kind of get into that rut of being in before it gets too dark and taking the nail. So, yeah, I'll see him. And I haven't had any situations in a long time where I've needed to be concerned that something was coming. But anytime I have had the issue, like he was there with me in Centralia. He goes, I see him in New York all the time. So the other places that we'll be talking about, he's actively there too. It's not like it's a location type entity that will just stay without. house or it will just stay with an item or a piece of jewelry or something. So yeah, the relationship

has has been definitely very beneficial to me. And I just try and keep it as low key as possible. Yeah, well, that's interesting. And I totally understand the low key part. I mean, just talking about some of this stuff, people look at you like you have 10 heads. If you say, if you say some of the stuff you said here to, you know, your coworker, they'd be like, um, I want my desk moved. you know, so. Yeah, exactly. But yeah. Really good thing about him, though, is he's opened up the conversation to a lot of other people.

I've been able to talk to, I went to Belize for a summer to work in the rainforests. And I was able to talk to this group of women because they saw him. And they're like, oh, you know about ghosts? And I was like, yeah. And they're like, can you help us with this ghost in the back house here? So, you know, it's been really cool to see the positive side of having him around, definitely. That's interesting. Yeah.

I guess you do come with experiences, so that does speak for itself. And speaking of experiences, you lived in a haunted house when you were a little girl, and you would see, I think it was a, you saw a little girl and an old woman. Is that right? Yes. So I grew up with my stepmother and my dad, and my stepmother had just answers for me out of everything. She's had experiences her entire life. She also grew up in Chester County, so it was really cool to have her around.

But in that house in particular, my mom saw this house, my stepmom, sorry, saw this house, fell in love with it. We still don't know why. It was terrible. And they fixed it up. But when we moved in, I lived in this smaller end room, and there would be a woman who would come into my room at night. And she was very nicely dressed, you know, very clean, very proper looking, I guess I could say. and she would come in and you would feel the edge of the bed just kind of dip over towards where she sat down. And I'm still a little kid at this point, so it's, you know, a little tiny twin bed.

But she would just rub circles on my back so that I could sleep because, you know, being a little kid and I just moved in with my dad and my stepmom. So I was missing my real mom and just kind of having a rough time. And she was all, she was there every night, just rubbing my back. But her biggest thing is that while she was there, there was this little. girl in the house who was a terror. And she was awful. She would push you. She would hold door shut on you. She would pinch you if you were trying to like, you know, do anything that wasn't paying attention to her. And she just really, as being the only small girl, because I have two brothers, she just made my life miserable. She was like having a bully live with you 24-7.

So while the older lady was there, the little girl wouldn't come around. But, but, But mainly the older lady was there bedtime. So I had to deal with the little girl most of the day. And it got to the point, I mean, I saw her all the time since I was about 15 all the way up into my late 20s. If my mom still lives in the same house, if I go back, I'm always like, get out of my room. But it got to the point where my boyfriend, who is now my husband, was trying to take a shower. and she held the door closed so that when he got out of the shower, he literally couldn't get the door open. And he's a big guy.

And he was fighting with this door. And I had to call my mom and be like, Mom, you need to help me because I can't get him out of the bathroom. And so she came in and she started screaming at this little ghost. You know, you can't see her, but you can't get the door open. It's like you can turn the handle and you can push the door, but nothing's happening. And so she yells and she screams at her and she tells her, you need to leave this family alone right now. This is my home.

We need to get out. And in about half a second, my husband pulled the door and he just almost fell backwards into the room because all of a sudden there was no pressure on the door. And I mean, and I was bawling at that point. And since then, I haven't had the issues with her that we had previously. And all it took was my mom, young. I tell her all time. I really appreciate you doing that, mom.

Yeah, it's interesting. So, yeah, that house was nice and haunted. Yeah, and it's interesting because, like, I mean, I've had that happen before. And you're not the first person within the last couple of weeks that has told me about this idea of trying to open a door and you can't. And every time I hear it, I remember this one story when I was a kid, but that something happened to me recently. And I just cannot for the life and me remember when, who was?

with where it was, but I know for a fact it happened to me where I couldn't open a door and somebody was on the other side trying to do the same thing. And as soon as we both let go over the door, it opened up. And I just cannot remember where this was. And it's, for weeks now, it's been driving me crazy. Because I have these experiences sometimes that happen to me, but I forget them. And I don't know why, but I do. I forget them. But I'll tell you, when I was a kid, the first time it happened to me. We went to this one girl. I lived in a very big trailer park up outside of Kutztown, PA.

And there was this girl that was in the neighborhood, and she was telling us that her trailer was haunted. And we're like, yeah, right, whatever. And so me, my buddy and her went down. And we were probably like, I don't know, eight, nine, ten years old. And we went to her trailer in the middle of day. It was just us. Her parents were at work. And we went inside and didn't seem weird at all.

And so, you know, we probably spent like five minutes and they're like, okay, time to go, you know? And we walk out and me and him walk out and she had to go back in for something. And she goes in and we're standing off the porch and all of a sudden we hear this banging and kicking on the door and yelling. And so we run up on the, and we're trying to open the door and it's locked. We're like, unlock the door. And she's like, I can't get out. I can't get out. And as soon as we let go, like I think it's me.

I think as soon as I let go the doorknob, the door. door opened up and she's standing like a few feet back and she's like, you got it open. I'm like, I didn't get it open. Like, oh my gosh. And that was probably one of the first times I came across something that was like along the lines of paranormal. And, you know, as a kid, I just brushed it off. It was like, whatever, you know, like I wasn't into this stuff when I was a kid. I mean, I was, but I wasn't. I didn't think of it like I do now. But yeah, it's just interesting. That's a recurring thing, too, that I keep hearing people talk about, you know, something like a door being held shut.

But do you think this entity, whatever it was, do you think there's a jealousy factor there? Do you think that's what was going on? Or do you think it was just a terror of a spirit? I think there was a lot of jealousy going on. Like I said, I was the only girl. She specifically targeted me multiple times. And I think if it was less of a jealousy factor

and more of like an overarching deviousness, I would have thought she would have gone after my little brothers because there's so much younger than me that means it's just a lot easier to go after them and scare them and she never she wouldn't even notice that they were there she wouldn't even give them any attention she would she would mess with my mom a bit

but it was more like more like a little girl who's just you know pinching and pulling at her mom to be like pay attention to me you know not not vicious like she was And as like I said, as soon as I had my boyfriend coming over, it was much more elevated. And I, you know, when you sit there and you think about it, you know, she didn't even get to grow up. I would be jealous too. And I totally understand it from that type of perspective.

But I'll tell you, it took some time to get to that kind of a thought process. Certainly didn't have it when I was younger. At that point, I was just done with her. I just wanted her gone. Yeah, I can understand that. Yeah, yeah, I was, I was, I used to yell at my mom and be like, why can't we be like a normal family and not live in a haunted place? Why do we have to be here? Why can't we move back to the other house?

And she just always, you know, she grew up, like I said, really close to where we were living currently. And she grew up in Chester County. And she's like, I grew up in a haunted house. You'll make it too. You'll be fine. Just keep moving. Keep your head down. And if you don't like it, ignore them.

and they'll go away then, she'll always been super logical about it. Yeah, that's interesting. I just kind of, yeah, had to grow up with that mindset after a while. All right. So tell me about EU. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right. EU, but this is. Oh, Ewan.

How you pronounce it? The church ghost. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I have a soft spot for him. I'll tell you what. Eulen. That was, like I said, that was my first time really meeting other people who got involved in ghosts, period.

And the crazies went out to look for it on purpose, which is something I've never had to do. So a girlfriend of mine took me to like a ghost hunter special during Halloween to like, oh, you know, they explain about ghost hunting and they tell you how they do it. And let's go watch their presentation. I was like, all right, whatever. I was addicted to like the Penn State ghost hunters. So I was like, let's do it. It's fun. Let's go.

We went there, sat through their entire presentation. And then I was like, well, this has been fun, but what about the lady upstairs? And they were like, excuse us? And I was like, yeah, you know, the lady upstairs. And I was like, she's upstairs. There's a dog upstairs. What about those two? You didn't give any presentation on them.

They basically got super quiet and kind of just like shuffled everybody out, tried to finish the presentation up. And then they were like, how would you like to go on a ghost hunt. And I was like, oh, well, you know, I give that a try. It sounds like a good time. So they took me to this beautiful little house off the side of the church. And we did get to tour the church as well as the little house as well as a graveyard. So do you want, I'm trying to remember in my email. Did I tell you about the piano? I don't think so. It's not ringing a bell. Oh, that's going to be fun. All right. So, and it involves you in as well.

Okay. So we went through the house, and the house wasn't, you know, there wasn't crazy activity going in there. We did find a couple ghosts. We were able to use some tools with, like, lights in them where you ask a question and ask them to turn the light on and off. And I was able to get several different responses, which was cool. But really, the jewel here was this church and absolutely beautiful church. we went back down into the area that is now the, like the daycare center. And there was something in that room that just felt so off. And I was like, why would you have kids in here, first of all?

Like, you guys know better. This is terrible. Why are we in here? Just getting really upset. And then they're like, hold on a second. And I was like, okay, that's fine. And I sit down in there. And then I start to feel kind of, you know, you get your cold spots.

I started to feel his presence. And he started to kind of build up in my mind. Like I would get this pieces of him like you were getting to know somebody. And so I said, who is this guy? He wears two, you know, he wears two personas. Well, you have to describe it to us. It's kind of a test. And I was like, okay, well, the first picture I see of you,

and that's the nickname I gave him in my head was the EU, you. The first picture is like he works for a living. He's a farmer. You know, he's got a nice loose tunic on. but he's also not doing what he was supposed to be doing, that he's being pushed somewhere, and then he has, like, soldier regalia on. So that was the first persona.

And the second persona was a pastor. So I was very confused seeing these two fighting images, and they're like a little freaked out, understandably, once you keep going, but they wanted me to tell them more. And I said, oh, wow, this is cool. He plays the fiddle. And they're like, we need to stop right.

now. I was like, what are you talking about? And they're like, come on. You need to come with us. So I gave them, like I said, a couple of facts about him that, you know, he had these two different personas, two different maybe jobs in his lifetime. And then he plays the fiddle. So they took me to the cathedral. And there's this little piano set up and they're like, we're going to sit down and we want to play something for you. I said, okay, cool. So they have a little video recorder going in the back. Everything was being reported just so that we could kind of look back

and see if we missed anything. And the one guy starts playing the piano up front. And you starts playing his violin, his fiddle. And I'm like, oh, it's, you know, it's beautiful. Like, it's something you would never see before in your entire life. And they call me back to the camera.

And you didn't see it with your eyes, but there were orbs everywhere. as soon as he started playing the piano, which was just crazy magical. And as soon as he stopped playing, you could watch the orbs blip out. That's interesting. It was, yeah, it was so wild. It was the first time I've had, like I said, a group of people actually recognize what's going on. Now, I'm saying they're going, okay, you're playing a piano.

Is there pipes somewhere that are blowing dust out? Like, what's going on? But you was also playing. So I thought that was really cool. So they talked to me and they're like, so you told us these things about this guy that you think is here. We have something else to show you. And I was like, there's more. Oh, Jesus.

Okay. And we go outside and they said, well, there was a pastor here who was also called into active duty during wartime. And his gravestone is over here. And they took me outside to the graveyard. And there was his use. and it was spelled, it was, his name was, his full name was Ewan. And his nickname was you and he was a pastor for the church before any additions or anything like that were put on when it was a very small church.

He died out there. He lived there his whole life. So he was a soldier and he was also a pastor and he also had owned farmland. So it was just really cool to see all these things that I told them going, and cold that his grave was right there. And it was just a really cool experience. Yeah, that is really cool. So, I mean, it sounds like he's hanging around still, huh? I think whatever was back in that back corner, because it wasn't the original part of the church, it just felt really wrong. And I think his whole thing is just to be there to protect it and keep seeing everything go on.

You know, because he just felt like that warm, happy, everything's going to be okay type of feeling. that was his whole persona. That's interesting. That's really interesting. So when you saw the, the orbs, and you could only see it through the camera, but now with your naked eye,

yeah. Were you in a dark room, or was it a lit room when you were doing this? It was, it was as if they had set the place up for Sunday service. So it was the overhead lights were on. The, there were like little,

little candle lights everywhere. So it was a bright room, but it was nighttime, so the windows were very dark. So you were getting a lot of light cast around on the inside of the church. But it was pretty cool. Like I said, I keep trying to break it in my head. Like, you know, what was going on in the room? Did the air ducts just turn on? Was there, you know, an air handling system?

But they claim that they turn everything off, and this is a recurrence that they can make happen all the time. And I just, I had never seen it before. I thought it was pretty cool. Yeah, it is cool. I've never seen in person, I should say, the orbs on video or in person. And I always wonder if it's one of those things where if you see it on the video, can you look around and see them as well? So what you're saying is you can't, but I know there's some, there are times that people say they can see orbs flying through a room with their naked eye. And I always just wonder if it's something that, you know, a particular person has the ability to see things that others can't or if it's the orb itself that's presenting itself in a way where people can see it. You know what I mean? I do. I do. And I wondered that myself because I mean there were hundreds. And if I could have seen them by, you know, with my naked eye, I feel like I should have been able to in that instance. But I've also never seen an orb. And all the haunted places I've been, it's either.

something that I see in my head or a full body. So I've never seen an orb. I'll be very honest with that. I mean, every house that I'm looking at, though, if I see him on the realtors pictures, I'm like, oh, we're not moving there. Dust mode or ghost, uh-uh, no, not living there.

Yeah, well, I can understand that. I mean, I'm the kind of person. If I knew a house is haunted, I would not live in it. You know, I am getting to the point where curiosity is getting to me in the sense that I've been in a lot of places that are supposedly haunted and rarely do I have an experience. And so I'm getting to the point where I'm like almost getting cocky about it. And I'm like, okay, so things don't happen when I'm around. And so I can pretty much go anywhere and I can almost guarantee you nothing's going to happen.

and I would like that. And so like I'm getting at a point where I kind of want to test my theory. I'm getting to the point where I honestly don't think I'd have a problem walking around Pennhurst by myself at 3 o'clock in the morning. Like I don't think anything's going to happen. And I was at Pennhurst and I felt something touched the back of my leg. But I still feel like there could have been a natural explanation to it. And I never felt creepy.

even when it happened. It's just, I don't know. I don't know. So I'm getting to a point where I kind of want to test my theories a little bit and see what happens. But I also just want to be careful about it too. So I never wanted to know. Well, okay, rephrase. I want to know if I'm crazy or not.

I feel like that's so important to me. But I never, I guess I just never questioned. You know, I know what I see. I know what. other people who are around me end up seeing. And then I have to apologize for what they saw. So I never even questioned it. But yeah, I can see how not having the experiences would make you crave them. Yeah. It's not even like I crave it. It's almost like I'm daring it. I'm just like things don't happen. Like I have had things happen to me. I don't want to say I haven't.

I have. But in the grand scheme of time, I don't really have things happen to me for, the amount of times I put myself in a situation where something could have happened. And same thing with the Bigfoot stuff. Like, I can, that's something I'm almost certain about. If I go out in the woods with you and me and we go book Bigfoot hunting, I promise you nothing's going to happen. I promise. We're just going to walk through the woods.

That sounds like the challenge. We're going to walk through the woods till we're tired and bored and nothing's going to happen. As soon as you do it without me, that's when stuff happens. that's why we carry cameras Tony yeah well uh we I carry tons of cameras I had you know front facing cameras I had a charger running to my camera 24 seven so I I could run 12 hours of videos straight like I had it all nothing nothing it's yeah it is what it is but um it doesn't doesn't make me feel like they're not out there it doesn't make me feel like ghosts aren't real I just for whatever reason.

I think maybe, you know, there's some kind of spiritual protection over me. I really believe that. A lot of people ask me, you know, with doing the show, do I ever get afraid that something's going to come to my house? I'm like, no, I don't. I haven't had anything come to my house. I haven't had any signs of something being here. I know for a fact.

I have lots of people that pray for me. I pray for me. And I just don't fear. I don't fear that stuff. and so I don't know. I don't know how we got on this topic and stuff, but I think long story short, I've been contemplating putting myself in situations where to really challenge it.

I mean, go to somewhere where it's supposed to be haunted by myself and just see what happens because I just, if something happens, if it gets crazy and stuff and it scares the crap out of me, I'll never do it again. But at least you know, at least that you know.

I highly doubt anything's going to happen, though. I really don't think anything will happen. So anyways, you know, if I stopped doing the show, you know why now because I got so scared. Tony's been awful quiet lately. I wonder what happened. Oh, didn't you hear? He got invited out to blank. Yeah.

Yeah, he did it alone. He did it solo because he thought he'd be a tough guy. But so let's talk about Centrelia. You had something interesting happened on the way there, I believe it was, right? So we actually, so we go up to Centralia a lot. My husband went to Bloomsburg University. All of our guy friends went up there. So we were there every weekend.

And the particular incidents that we had actually ended up happening. So we'd had our day of fun. We went wheeling. We, you know, I loved the little, you know, the mayor used to be there still. And the little house in the corner was the post office. the fireplace are the fire police are gone now. But it used to have at least three houses still left. And we were coming back to the town and there's the highway, the old highway.

It's blocked off on either end so that you can't actually drive up and down it. And so we went out and we parked near the burns at one end and we went to go take a walk. So it was myself and three other friends. all big tough guys. And we just, we were literally just there to take a walk. We weren't there to do anything else. It was a really nice night, well, afternoon evening. And we walked all the way down to the bottom and we were on our way on the back,

like on the uphill side. So we were walking uphill towards the vehicles. And all of a sudden, one of the guys was just, what's that over there? And I'm like, what are you talking about? Everything's fine. And you turn around. and the road has two big dirt hills on either side, basically, or a mind's eye trying to remember.

Left-hand side, if you're walking up the hill, there's a big, they're coal piles. Like, it's the slag left over from getting the coal out from the ground. And he had pointed to a spot in the trees where we could actually see something taller than the trees that was definitely not another tree looking down with us and the son was behind him and you could not see through him it was a very solid thing and we were like oh that's not great um this is a group of friends who already know that i had kind of weird stuff happen around us and i told them stories before and so everyone just got really

weirdly calm um which has been kind of an unusual thing uh that i've noticed around some of these things it's just everyone doesn't it nobody's running like i feel like if i was watching a show. I would expect everyone to run and scream and go, oh my God, what's that in the trees? Nobody was afraid. Well, nobody acted outwardly afraid. We just kind of put our heads down and just started walking back up the hill as fast as we could. But you could hear it moving through the trees behind us. And it was just going at a pretty slow pace for it, but keeping up. And you could just hear the trees moving and you could hear things cracking under his feet. And we got into the car and we took off and we never talked about it, which I thought was very interesting

because you have had many people say, like, well, we just never even thought about talking about it afterwards. This is how that felt like nobody wanted to talk about it or mention it or even acknowledge that it happened. And it was just very wild. It was the biggest group of people I'd been in at that point to have a full experience together. And it was huge. Yeah. I mean, that's, I mean, it's really interesting that you're saying it was taller than the trees. So, I mean, what are we talking about here? Yeah. 20, 30 feet tall? So on the edges, so they're little birch trees because they're growing up out of the, um, the, the, the, the slat, right? So they're, oh gosh, they're three times me. So I go 15, 20 feet tall. And it was, its head was a,

not just sticking out, but like full face head above. Um, and we didn't get a really good look at it. The sun was behind it, so it was in complete shadow, but it wasn't see-through. So I was thinking if it was an entity of some point, it would be see-through. But it also wouldn't,

it wasn't hairy looking. It was very uniform in shape, I'd call it, almost more of a mass than, than something specific, because we couldn't see hands. I did not look down to, to see if there was feet. Because like I said, we just all very calmly.

And in one motion, all in agreeance turned around. Nobody said anything about like, let's just get out of here. It was just let's go. And we all as a group together just went away from this. Was it bulky or was it like lanky? It was more lanky than it was bulky. So it was. And like I said, when you could hear it through the trees,

you know the difference between a bear going through. trees and a deer going through trees? I'd like to say yes, but I don't think so. Sorry, my family's full of hunters. Okay, so if a bear is going through underbrush, it's a, you feel the ground move and you have more getting broken. If you have a deer running through the trees, they actually make their own paths over time, and you barely hear them coming.

It's like a pitter-patter instead of a thump. And this was, it was more of the deer sound than the bear sound. And it was huge. So it was much more lanky than thick and it sounded fairly dainty moving through the trees, which is, I guess, a hard thing to say for something that's probably at 30 feet tall. Wow. Yeah. And it's not like we ever saw damage because we've been back since.

And it's not like we saw damage on the ridgeline. There was, you know, trees get blown over from the wind all the time. So who knows on that. but it was the only time we've really had a bad, because it felt bad. Like, it felt like we shouldn't be here anymore, um, type of an experience. And you guys didn't talk about it. I, I could call these guys up today and be like, do you remember that time? And they go, oh, yeah.

And then that would be it. That's weird. They don't want to talk about it. They don't want to remember it. Um, I even, I bring it up to my husband sometimes because he and I will talk about stuff like that because we've had those types of experiences together. And this was the first time his group of friends had. it. And he's just like, yeah, nobody wants to talk about it. Nobody wants to know.

Wow. That's really interesting. I mean, it wasn't Bigfoot, right? I mean, that's what everybody wants to say. Oh, it was Bigfoot. I know. I know. It can't be. It's too big. And it wasn't hairy. It wasn't hairy. And like you couldn't see wisp of hair coming off the side or anything like that. I wish it was Bigfoot because I don't feel like we would have wanted to run it, hopefully. But. You know, it's, it's, it didn't feel like a big foot. It's not, it doesn't feel like the same feeling as New York does. Not at all.

I know. I'm sorry, Tony. I wish I knew what this thing was. I really do. It was wild. I've never seen anything like it before and I, I've never seen anything like it since. And with the array of things that I have seen, I'm always trying to classify, trying to figure out like, you know, what could it be? what did we see?

None of us are drug users. We're not, you know, it wasn't even that late. Like I said, it was like at sunset-ish. So the sun was setting behind him. He had the nice orange glow. It was very pretty evening. It's just a wild place. Centralia, if you get a chance to go out there, it's just kind of wild.

Yeah. Well, did you mention this black dog yet? I can't remember. I didn't. Oh, I didn't talk about the black. See, I have a lot of things. Let's see. Black Dog was up in that area as well.

So my husband, he, is it his story where he's driving the car? So he used to come up and see me all the time. So he would drive from Bloom area all the way back down here towards Chester County. And he, of course, rationalizes it that he was just too tired.

But he was, there's this one particular road up there that goes, it goes from the top of the hill down into the valley. and then right back up out. So you can get some really nice speed on that hill. If you're into race and cars, it's choice. But he's going down the hill and he sees a black dog just run across the road real quick. And it actually causes him to spin the car out. But he doesn't, I mean, and this is a completely wooded road.

He hits nothing. He doesn't hit the trees. He doesn't hit the guardrail. There's a little bridge. He doesn't hit it. And he just, the car turns around. in the right direction and if he wanted to hit the gas he could just go ahead and go up the hill and have no issue but he wants to get out and find the dog um and i'm not there this is this is his

story so he gets out and he starts looking for the dog he sees nothing um he didn't find a trail he didn't like he's sitting out they're going come on pooch let's go come on pup um just trying to figure out what could have run across the road and he says he saw absolutely nothing but he believes that that dog stopped him from doing something worse that he thinks maybe like what maybe there was like I'm waiting to bust him on a speeding ticket on the other side or maybe that would have been the night that he crashed the car because he was going too fast but he was never able to find it um yeah and it just freaks him out because he also had a driving job for a long time he was always waiting to see the dog again no dog huh no dog he couldn't find it at all

nope it was pretty wild um I mean and we've had a couple other instances with black dogs, but I wouldn't put it past it being the trucker's legend kind of a thing. Because we like to do all night trips. Hey, trucker stories are very credible, okay? I agree. I agree.

I'm playing with you. We can never find them, you know? And that's kind of the crazy part for us is you just never see anything. Yeah. So you can't, you can't, you can't find. it and be like, oh, yes, it went in that direction. There's never anything there afterwards. So, it's pretty cool. All right. So where does New York tie in? I mean, do you have a property in New York? Is that how this all starts out for you? Yes. Yes. So my husband's family bought land up in New York.

And we go up there to go camping. So we've been working on the land for probably, the last 15 years, just trying to get it livable. There's a big valley down below where things grow fast, and so it's really hard to get in there. There's no houses built on the property. It's just land, which we love. But we get up there, and we've started now inviting friends, which we didn't previously do.

And all of a sudden, you'll get to this point in the middle of the trip, where you're just like, no, this is over and it's time to leave. And it's kind of like this really weird heart racing urgency to the point where my husband calls it escape New York because you feel like you're being told you're no longer welcome here and it's time to leave. So previous to these types of experiences, we would go up there constantly and just go camping and enjoy it.

We found some really interesting structures up there that since while trying to do some research, people have suggested or like Bigfoot's way of communicating or dugouts and stuff like that. Well, we weren't really sold, so we just kept kind of going up there and enjoying it. And then, like I said, we invited some friends up. And we were all there.

We have two or three different camp spots. So we had them set up at another camp spot. So we'd all have a little privacy. And we were, everyone was ready for bed. We'd finished our beers, you know, put the fires out. Everyone was spread out. We keep our dogs with us. So we had our two dogs.

And it just ended up being one of those nights where I couldn't get to sleep. The dogs were restless the entire night. And then our friends who were at the other spot came over and they're like, guys, we need to leave. And we're like, we told you. We told you this was going to happen. You said you were going to last the whole weekend. So that group, we actually ended up leaving a day early. So that has continued to happen now, that kind of an event where even if we don't tell them about it, people always end up leaving early because they said it just felt weird. It felt like they needed to leave. So obviously having these weird experiences, we decided to ask some of the locals.

and there is a neighbor on either side of our large property. We own over 100 acres, and it backed up to a like a national preserve kind of thing owned by the state. So we have ours and then New York State has it on the other half of the mountain. So it's really nice protected area. We had the neighbors. We've given them access to the property just to make sure that no one's trespassing. The neighbors are super local.

They have this as their little cabin while they work in the city. And so my husband and a friend of ours took the locals out for a four-wheeler drive. And they were about halfway up the mountain. And one of the guys, our friend actually, his four-wheeler, stopped running, like just cut out. Wouldn't start. It was full of gas. It had just gotten all fixed up for coming up for the drive. Nothing electrical was loose.

Everything was good. And he makes a joke while the locals are standing there. And he goes, it must be the woo. And the locals stop talking. They didn't laugh. They didn't think it was funny. And my husband's like, well, do you think it was a big foot? And they wouldn't talk to him.

They literally all got on their four-wheelers and left my husband and his friend there. They vacated the property. They wouldn't even, they didn't think that. was funny at all. So, the two of them. Do you think that the possibility of them acting that way was because one, you know, you would want to believe that maybe they, they were like, oh, man, like, we're not talking about this stuff, you know, as in like they know it's real?

Or do you think that maybe they thought your husband, because he was cracking a joke, was kind of like mocking them and they just didn't think that, you know, it was, I don't know. bunny. Yeah, yeah, like, almost like, you know, oh, yeah, Bigfoot. We're out here. We're Hillbillies and we're bigfoot people, I guess, right? Or something like that, you know? So we, we have a really good relationship with them. I mean, these are people will cook us. We like, we do like a whole chicken dinner together and we all get out and hang out and they make city folk jokes and we make hicc jokes. So they have a really, really, and I laugh at them because I'm like, sweetie, you don't know what I'm from. You're from Honeydrunk.

I know. I know. I love. You're more city folk. Your neighbors are Amish people, literally. I know, but nobody thinks of Pennsylvania that way. They think of it as Pittsburgh or Philly. Yeah. Which, I guess. But no, we have a, I mean, we still to this day have a great relationship with these guys.

If something happens on the property, they call us. We actually had some scientific research get done up there looking for some, like, like we had trail cams get put up by the university up there to look for some indeed. some endangered species and stuff. It was no, we didn't catch me a big foot on the cameras, Tony. I would have sent it to you. Yeah, I'm sure. Right. But yes, we have a great relationship with these guys and for them to stop what they're doing.

And on top of it, which was weird, to stop helping with the four-wheeler and just vacate the area, we think it was because they believe, because they also won't talk to us about it at all. Because we've tried to tell them that we've had some experience. up there. Like we've heard wood knocking. We've heard wood knocking. We get stuff thrown to us from the top of the hill while we're while we're camping. And they were not even, they weren't open to talking to us about it even a little bit. And they're up there in that cabin more often than we're up on the land. So I think it's a total belief. I think they are trying to maybe be more respectful. And that's why they didn't want to laugh about it. because it was, yeah, it was a really intense moment for everybody involved to the point where our friend finally got his four-wheeler working, went back down the hill, and he was, you know, he was kind of shaken, but he was like, I'm going to try and make sure that the four-wheelers, okay, I'm going to do another loop. And he went up by himself up the mountain on these trails

that we have cut out, like they're not, you know, that we can get our four-wheelers back up in and out, no problem. But he went up about halfway, turned around and was so freaked out. And he decided to sleep down by the river that night. He didn't even want to sleep up on the mountains. So we don't, you know, it's not as much of a joke as it used to be up on the hill in New York. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know, I don't know exactly where in New York you're talking about and stuff, but I know there's a lot of spots in New York that have Bigfoot activity. And there's a lot of stories that come out of New York that kind of, for whatever reason, get glossed over by a lot of people. You know, when they think about Bigfoot on the East Coast, you think about the Carolinas,

you think about Florida, you think about Pennsylvania, Ohio. But to think about New York, a lot of times people think, again, you know, the city, New York City. Well, New York City is just a tiny fraction of that state. It's a huge state, and there's a lot of wild in there. And there's just a lot of sightings that go on. And when you're talking about now having, you know, something thrown at you, uh, you hearing things falling you around, uh, the, the wood knocking. I mean, now you're talking about some things that though you don't see anything, it's very, uh, very, it narrows down the idea of what it could be. Uh, because again, what, the one of the biggest things for me is if when somebody says they had stuff thrown at them,

uh, there's nothing in the woods that's wildlife. That's wildlife. it's going to throw anything at you. It needs to have some thumbs. Or, you know, you could be in a haunted forest, which I don't want to excuse that idea because a good friend of mine, people, a lot of people listen to his podcast too, strange familiarers with Timothy Renner. Him and I were talking years ago. And he brought that up to me. And I was like, you know, man, that's something I never really thought about. But it's very true. If forest can be haunted. And if a forest is haunted, there could be ghosts in that forest spirits, poultry geist activity where things are being thrown. And maybe it's not Bigfoot, but more of a spiritual kind of thing. And it's just when you

talk about things like that amongst the quote unquote Bigfoot community of people, you're either going to get accepted with that with open to arms or you're going to say you're, they're going to say you're crazy because Bigfoot is very flesh and blood and there's no such things as ghosts and demons. We're willing to believe there's big. foot, but when it comes to ghost, nope, we're not going to believe it. Come on now. Yeah. Get real. Well, I mean, even before, so I've always been interested in learning about this stuff, but before we really started having activity up there, I would hear stories about like the woo. And I would be like, oh, that's just ridiculous, guys. Come on. You know, you have a shadow man that

follows you around your entire life your relationship with. What are you talking about? Listen, I told you, I'm still trying to figure out if I'm crazy. So, like, you know, so the will sounded crazy to me until, you know, we started getting that feeling that you have to leave and you have to leave now. And that was totally new to us. We've never been not welcomed in a forest before. But you know what? This is also all old logging forest. So, you know, you don't know if someone got hurt up on that mountain.

It could be something like that. But what really sunk it in for us that it was probably Bigfoot, the History Channel a few years ago did a special on Bigfoot in the New York forests. And the one property that they did is a state game land, and it's the game lands, the park that butts up to our property. Ding, ding, ding. And we were like, and we were like, stop it right now. Stop it right now.

This is insane. And we were really excited. I don't know why we were really excited. We were very excited. And like I said, it never started getting bad until we started bringing friends up. So we keep wondering, like, was it okay with the two of us being there? Because the rest of our family doesn't use it. We take the dogs up, but even now the dogs are, they'll be okay during the day.

And at night, they get upset and they won't go to sleep and they eat wine a bit. So it's certainly gotten. elevated. Yeah, well, I mean, I understand the excitement that you had because when you have suspicions of something and then you watch on TV and those suspicions are pretty much confirmed, it's an exciting thing because like you just mentioned a few minutes ago, it makes you feel like you're not crazy. You know, it's like, okay, I'm not crazy. Sounds good to me. I'm marginally less crazy than I was before. Right. And, you know, I mean, people are people and, you know, we get a lot of people to listen to the show and they come with their own agendas as they listen. Some people want to

be entertained. Some people are doing it for quote unquote, very loosely termed research. You know, or some people are coming just to hear people's stories and wonder what could be possible. And some people come to be judgmental and, you know, to find holes in people's stories and things like that. And that's entertaining for them. So I'm sure there's some people that are going to be listening to this and they're going to be like, she has a relationship with the ghost, really? Listen. You know, this world is crazy. And the idea of it is not foreign to me.

I've never talked to somebody who, you know, talks so adamantly like you do. But it's not foreign to me of the idea. I've heard of people looking forward to having sexual encounters with entities. Oh my gosh. It's not that. No, I'm going to put that out there. It's not bad. I wasn't suggesting that.

I'm just saying, yeah, no, I'm just saying like, I mean, things happen to people and they, they want more of it, I guess, the best loving they've had. So, but I'll tell you what, Jackie, I'll tell you what. I appreciate coming on the show and sharing your experiences so openly and just you come with a very positive, vibrant attitude. And I appreciate that. Before we get out of here, I want to give you a chance to, and I didn't tell you I was going to do this. I want to give you a chance. I want to give you a chance. to just kind of tell people where they can find some of your artwork because while you're talking, I was doing some snooping around and I came to your Etsy page and you have some stained glass sculptures and I think they look really cool and I think some people might be interested in purchasing. So why don't you just let people know where they can find some of your sculptures? Thank you very much, Tony. I definitely wasn't expecting this and I didn't want to plug, but here we go. So I have my shop is on Etsy.

It's slice of nice or slice oh nice. And my username on there is Luke Loki, L-E-U-K-L-O-K-K-I. You can find me either way. And I'm always happy to do, you know, custom pieces for people. I'm a big video game nerd, so I love doing that too. But mostly I try and stick with 3D sculptures or really nice outdoor pictures. So there you go. Yeah.

Thank you, Tony. Absolutely. I mean, I wouldn't let you promote it if I didn't think it looked cool, you know. So I think it looks cool. And it's something that I think there's people out there that would love to have that sitting on their desk and stuff. So definitely check it out, everybody. If you're interested in some new pieces of art to sit on your desk at work or something like that. But Jackie, I really do appreciate you coming on and sharing.

Thank you so much, Tony. I can't tell you. And I know I said it in my email, but the first time that I heard someone, one on your show described how they saw ghosts. And I knew what she was saying and I didn't feel so alone anymore. And I know you get a lot of people saying thank you, but you really do something special here. Well, that's the show, everybody. I really hope you enjoyed it.

And if you did enjoy it, please share the show with your friends. That's the best thing you can do to help the show grow. It's just to share around social media, word and mouth. It doesn't matter to me. Just share the show if you enjoyed it because that really does help us out. And remember, we have access to member shows through the app now. so go ahead and check that out and check out House Wolf projects on our store page on the website. And until next week, friends, stay safe, take care, and remember the truth will set you free,

but first don't piss you off. Bye.