The Confessionals - RELOADED | 542: Weaponization Of UAPs | From Rendlesham Forest to Artificial Intelligence

Episode Date: July 13, 2026

In Episode 542: Weaponization Of UAPs | From Rendlesham Forest to Artificial Intelligence we are joined by John Burroughs to talk about what he saw during his legendary 3-day encounter with UAPs in Rendlesham Forest in 1980. The Rendlesham Forest incident is possibly just as important or more so than Roswell. John came on to talk about what his experience was and also what he thinks the purpose of it was. We talk about how Project Blue Beam could play into the future of UAP sightings and collective consciousness. What does the government know and how do they plan on using that knowledge to their benefit against the people? What are they doing behind closed doors with pseudoscientific methods to create wormholes to affect time and space? We talk about it all on today’s show.Please pray for Tony's wife, Lindsay, as she battles breast cancer. Your prayers make a difference!If you’re able, consider helping the Merkel family with medical expenses by donating to Lindsay’s GoFundMe: https://gofund.me/b8f76890📕 Pre-order Tony's Book: https://a.co/d/0bJS3SaVBecome a member for ad-free listening, extra shows, and exclusive access to our social media app: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinThe Confessionals Social Network App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZThe Counter Series Available NOW:The Counter (YouTube): WATCH HEREThe Counter (Full Episode): WATCH HERETony's Recommended Reads: slingshotlibrary.comIf you want to learn about Jesus and what it means to be saved: Click HereBigfoot: The Journey To Belief: Stream HereThe Meadow Project: Stream HereMerkel Media Apparel: merkmerch.comSPONSORSSIMPLISAFE: simplisafe.com/confessionalsGHOSTBED: GhostBed.com/tonyQUINCE: quince.com/tonyIVERMECTIN: twc.health/tonyVENICE AI: https://venice.ai/theconfessionalsRUMBLE WALLET: https://rumblewallet.onelink.me/bJsX/ConfessionalsCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/theconfessionals/Discord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelProduced by: @jack_theproducer

Hey, did you hear? Watermelon is back at booster juice all summer long. Nice. I love the watermelon explosion. And the watermelon wave. Yep. They even got a new watermelon assaye pool this year. The one in a melon bowl. And what does that sound like? Mmm. Like that. Booster Juice.

Canadian born, blending since 1999. Merkel? I guess it's time. to go back in time. Are you telling me you built a time machine? Kind of a Dolion? I am this but a stubborn illusion. I have a lot of memories of the past.

People are time traveling within themselves. Time travel is possible. This was all circulating around the base that a giant had been killed, but no one was supposed to talk about it. Long, bony fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And he starts running and firing up this giant. Well, the giant moves.

Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face. They basically decapitate him. Got closer, got closer, got closer, got closer. When he got about 15 yards away from me, I raised that 12 gigs and I blow his head. Hello. I feel something pulling at my leg, and I look over and there are two. I reach my hand into this bush, and I touch air. Couldn't breathe, and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. Okay, I reload it.

Yep. Welcome to the show, everybody listening to The Confessionals. I'm your host, Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here. If you have a crazy wild experience, you want to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is The Confessionals at the Confessionalspodcast.com. that's the Confessionals at the confessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the contact section, and you can reach me that way as well.

Other way works for me, just get a hold of me. If you want more shows on a weekly basis, go to the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the join button, become a member. They're going to get access to all the membership episodes, all the Tuesday episodes, add free, and overtime segments when they're available right there on the website and the confessionals app. If you are a member and you haven't downloaded the Confessionals app, what are you waiting for? go ahead and download the professionals app right now.

Get yourself logged in and enjoy the experience right there for yourself as a member. All right, this week we have John Burroughs coming on from Rendleson Forrest Incident. He was there. It was a three-day ordeal. He comes on to talk about the entire experience of what he experienced and the other soldiers during this UFO experience or UAP like the title says. You guys know I don't like the UAP title, but he kept on saying UAP. I want to show him respect. So it's UAPs today. But nevertheless, he had a UFO experience in Reynolds and Forrest while he's in the military. This is a classic, legendary UFO encounter. He comes on to talk about that. But we also talk about Operation Blue Beam, advanced technology like Elon Musk's Neurrelink, the governments of the world conspiring against the people, simulation theory, and even time dilation, creating wormholes, which is what he kind of believes happened to him during his experience.

experience. Very, very good conversation. We kind of bob and weave go all over the place, and I just had a really good time talking to him. So let's get to John right now. All right. Today we got a special guest coming on. We have John Burroughs. How are you, sir? You're good. Thanks for having me on. Hey, I'm really glad you're here. Now, you're somebody that I've known about for a long time. I started up my podcast back in 2017, January 20, 2017. And obviously I've known about you and the story from back then. But one thing that I kind of want to start off with this. And then what I'd like for you to do is to dive into your story. Because here's a couple of things. I brought you up and your story up over the years to different

people. And I'm actually astonished at how many people say they're not familiar. And because the Rendelson Forest, what I call the Rendleson Forest incident, is one of the most amazing UFO encounters I've ever heard. It's probably right up there with Roswell. And so I'm astonished at that. But before you dive into your story and sharing with the audience, this experience you had, I had this thought.

And it kind of bases off what I just share with you. Over the years, I've had people tell me that they're not totally familiar with your story. they think they've heard of it. But I've also heard people share what seems to be almost like different versions of your story. And not totally different, but I've heard different little details. And I wonder if you've ever come across something like that and what you make of it. Because to me, knowing your story, it makes me feel like maybe there is some kind of disinformation that has been put out over the years just to kind of muddy the waters as to what's actually what with your story.

Well, it goes like this. It started with when the event made the paper in England called The News of the World, a lot of people jumped on it. It was the time frame, you know, social media isn't like it is today, but there hadn't been a lot of stuff out recently on UFOs and stuff. So a bunch of people got involved trying to look at the incident. You know, you had CNN running after it. all these investigators and stuff. And the different people that they talked to, including the Air Force and other agencies, different stories did come out.

I mean, Colonel Hall's memo wasn't factual. The dates and times were wrong. Some of the questionings that was going to the Air Force and the Colonel Halt and others, they didn't get the story right in individual people's involvement. So it started there and it really just started with the memo itself. And it's grown over the years. Then you had people jump in and talk about it being the lighthouse and different things. And so when I first heard about it, I didn't know any of this was happening.

CNN started hawking me and I ended up talking to them off camera, but I wouldn't go on camera. But eventually I just started trying to get my particular part of what happened to me out and try to maybe correct any of the discrepancies with times and dates and stuff like that. That was how I first got involved because it was a mess. I mean, there were stories running around. I jumped on something, went for a ride. All kinds of things were coming out. But I tried to set the record straight on what I remember happening and, you know,

with everything, including myself and others, and including the fact that the memo was wrong from the beginning. Yeah. And that actually makes a lot of. of sense. So I actually, maybe I knew this and I forgot, but I didn't quite realize that you came out trying to correct the information that had been coming out. So before, again, I don't want to get too far ahead here, but do you think that you would have come out if you didn't feel like you had a correct information that was already being put out? Well, that's an interesting question,

because if I hadn't come in, it came out, and the story hadn't came out, I probably would be dead right now. But because the story got leaked out and everything else, I was able to eventually through a lot of stuff that went on, even with the government tonight and I was in at the time, I was able to get compensation and treatment. So, but in reality, I hadn't said a word until the memo leaked out and news that the world came out. So other people running around talking to investigators about it and stuff like that. But I had not said a word until actually, I mean, I got some phone calls and I just hung up on him. But when CNN actually called, I had to notify the public affairs office. And they actually, the Pentagon forced me to talk with CNN.

Is that right? Okay. Was it like damage control? They were, well, the, the best I can tell you is, is that when news of the world hit, the memo confirmed something happened. And at that point, I think the powers to be at the time didn't want to try to cover that up. So it was kind of like when CNN called me, I told the guy I wasn't going to talk to him.

And then the next thing you know, after I reported it to public affairs, the Pentagon called the squadron, talked to my commander, and then they got me on the phone. And as general told me I had to meet, with him off base in civilian clothes. And what they wanted me to do was just simply agree with the memo and simply say that

what the memo says is what happened. But I'm not like that either because when I tried to tell the general I didn't want to do it anyway, he basically ordered me to meet with CNN. And so when I did, I told DeCaro, I wasn't ordered to go on camera for an interview, which others did. But I just met with him and I just looked at the memo, which I'd never seen, or the paper news of the world because again social media wasn't around back then so when i looked at the noise of the world story he had and then the memo i told him the memo was wrong said the dates and times

though aren't right and and they took a bunch of stuff and he threw it all together so it wasn't factual and i said that's as far as i'll go with it i'm because eventually i figured people'd start piecing the story together and i didn't want to be on record you know supporting something it wasn't factual. So he was really cool. He didn't, you know, push it any farther for me or another guy by the name Adrian Bustenza or Colonel Halt to go on, you know, camera at the time. So they did interview quite a few different people and they did a three-part series on it. But, but I, you know, I was from the very beginning, there was misinformation put out from just with the memo itself. So that's, that's a very forward thinking for you. In reality,

because, you know, under the pressure, I'm sure, of a general telling you to do something, having that presence of mind saying, well, eventually the truth will get out. And if I'm on record saying the opposite, now I'm either called a liar, a hoaxer, or what else am I hiding? And so it's actually... Yeah, it's a cover-up. Yeah, cover-up. I'm part of the cover-up, right?

Exactly. I mean, it really was a cover-up because what I mean by that is they had no intentions to doing anything until somehow the memo got. got out. And there's a story behind it and I don't want to botch it. But eventually some people were able to get this memo out. And I have to believe that they probably did that just in case that they were forced later to admit something happened. And the memo was just to jumble everything up. And they were hoping by just saying, yeah, well, this went out in the forest and saw some strange lights. There's nothing to it. Nothing to see here and move on. But the problem was there was too many

other people, including the people that started talking in the first place that got the memo out, that weren't going to let that go. So, yeah, you're right. I didn't want to lie, but I didn't really want to go into all the details either, because there was some pressure from the Pentagon for me not to go into too much detail either. Just confirm the memo's correct, and you were there and move on. Were you active duty at the time of this when they were talking to you about coming out and talking? Oh, yeah. That came out. Let's see, 70. 80 did the incident happen. So it would have been, it would have been, what?

79, 81, 82, 83, 84. I think 84 is when news of the world broke. I was at Luke Air Force Base. And then it was funny right after the story broke, I got sent to Korea. They sent me over there with Halt. Halt was at Kunsan. I was at Oson.

And General Williams, he was a colonel, you know, he was the wing commander for the incident, was actually the PACF commander. And I didn't know that neither one of them were over there at first until after I got over there. So they hit all three of us over there. So, I mean, they didn't try to hide us from CNN, but they didn't want any follow-up afterwards.

And CNN wanted to do a follow-up, and they were denied access to Korea because you had to get a visa at that point out of Japan to go into Korea, and they actually applied for a visa and were denied access to talk to us on the follow-up after the special assignment. Wow. Well, I'm sure it was just all coincidence

that you were you relocated. No, because even when they did the piece, they sent it over to Korea, and they sent it on a commercial VCR tape. I don't know if you're aware of those, you know, but they had commercial VCR tapes. They sent it to the Public Affairs Office, and I had to sit with Public Affairs and OSI

and review the Special Assignments Report and comment on what was factual and wasn't. OSI was there. So there was a lot of interest inside you know, the Air Force itself on how the story was being handled and who was talking to what was going on. Okay.

Well, 10 minutes in, I've teased it out enough. For the audience listening, now I have a very wide range of audience. People tend to tune in for very wide range of topics. And like I said earlier and stuff, I'm always astonished as to people who kind of look at me sideways like, nope, never heard of that.

And like, really? Over the years, I have known about your story and have never gotten you on. And I finally was like, I just got to get them on and you came on. I'm really happy about this. So if you could walk the audience into what actually unfolded for you and others in the Red And Slim Forest when you were stationed in England. Well, the incident happened in December of 1980. and we came on duty, we worked swings and mids, three swings, three mids, and the midnight shift was from 2300 to 0700. So you would come on one day and get off the next, you know, as far as dates, you know, and, you know, days.

But so we came on at 2300 Christmas night. That was our last mid. And about 0300 on the 26th, which was boxing day over there, so the base was still shut down. It was like they had a four-day weekend. So we were on duty. and I met up with my supervisor who was new to the base. He wanted to drive around. I was a dead night on Woodbridge, so it was a smaller of the two bases. It was a dead night.

So he had just been there about a month. So he wanted to ride around with me a little bit, talk a little bit about what he expected and all that stuff. I'd been there a year and a half. So we were driving around. I parked my patrol vehicle and got in with him, and we were driving around. Well, the checks we had to make us go down to the Eastgate.

So we were heading down the flatline road. towards east gate to check it to make sure it was secure because it was used at night between the back gate at bedwaters and um and woodbridge by maintenance and stuff so we had to check up here i could make sure it was secure and as we were driving down there i was just kind of sit back i wouldn't pay much attention to anything and he all of a sudden kind of got my attention and said have you seen that before what he saw was something coming out down into the forest from above in the forest, which was out in front of us off base. So I got my attention.

I kind of looked out there and there was lights in the forest at that point. And I've been there a year and a half, been on patrol out there, been on the gate at night during alerts and stuff. And no, never seen anything like that. So we didn't know what to do at first, but it was kind of surprising that he even agreed to go up base because he was pretty by the book. So we got to the gate. We could see it.

He didn't really want to call it in, but he didn't want to not call it in. So we opened up the gate drove to the end of the road, which the road led down to a road that went, you could go left or right. So it was like a T. Go back to Bentwater's or go to a village if you went to the right. But anyway, when we got to, he kind of did a U-turn to start to head face back towards the road to go back up to the gate. I opened the door and it was weird feeling. There was like static electricity in the air. Things just didn't seem right.

And it looked like the lights, especially the white light that was in the forest, was kind of moving. moving towards us. So we jetted back up to the gate shack called it in. They transferred us to CSC. CSC called the security supervisor. And that's some of the things that get screwed up. It wasn't a flight chief. He was a security supervisor for Woodbridge. Security flight chief was over both bases and there was a shift commander over both bases. And we had a law enforcement flight chief, which would have been my boss and Sergeant Stephenson's boss. So anyway, security supervisor came down, saw some strange lights, saw the same strange lights we were seeing. There was, all this was going on over the phone.

And while he was talking to whoever it was at CSC, I believe there was a guy by any of coffee, Dillard, and maybe the shift commander, and even the flight chief may have been all on at one point, another he was talking to. They were doing some checking with radar. They started with our radar, and they could make contact with Eastern Radar, Heathrow, you know, and evidently, now this is what I was told not, I wasn't on the phone, was radar had seen something over the area of the forest that we were seeing lights in, and it came down into the forest and disappeared off radar.

So normally we probably wouldn't have left the base because it was off base, you know, but because of the fact that something may have crashed because it was on radar and disappeared, the shift commander determined, and I don't know who else he contacted the got permission or he just did it himself, decided to let three of us go up base into the force to see if we could find if something crashed or not. So when people said there's always been arguments over years, we couldn't have gone up base, we couldn't have done this, we couldn't have done that. The fact of the matter was the decision was made to go up base because of possible downed aircraft. And we left our weapons at the gate, or at least that's how I remember it. They also did contact the British Police and the British Fire Department, so they were coming out at the same time.

Later, there were documents to show that the Breeze Fire Department. department did come out into the area. The British police did show, eventually show up. But we got out into the forest. We went into the forest on a logging road, got as far as we could before we were blocked by a fence, got out of the vehicle, climbed over the fence. It seemed like the best I could tell you is like you might be getting close to it and then it wasn't, it was farther back. But eventually we got to an area in the forest where there was a berm and we were down, it started to go up on the berm as we got to the top of the berm, all of a sudden there was this bright white light and whatever it was there.

Okay. The, uh, we all hit the ground and then that's where the stories change as far as what people remember. The staff sergeant was with us, who was a security supervisor, claims he got up, the lights dimmed,

walked around it, took notes for 45 minutes, touched it, got a binary download, the whole spiel. He is over the years that first tried to say the other airman, Airman Cabansac wasn't with us, but he was, and we've got him on tape now, admitting it's true.

So what I remember was the lights dimmed, then they got really bright again, whatever it was lifted up into the trees and went back towards the coast. Erwin Cabansac's on record saying that we got close to something, then we all blacked out. He remembers this blacking out. But eventually we got up, and then we went over a fence that was separating the forest from the farmer's fields that were out there, climbed over the fence. We could see some lights down by the farmer, the cottages, they call them the farmer's houses, but there are actually cottages

that were down there. The farmer's house wasn't there. We went towards the cottages. When we got down to the cottages, we could see like a beacon, and then we saw some more lights in the sky and the distances we proceeded into the next field heading out towards the coast. What Ed and I remember was getting to the coast and seeing that there was a lighthouse out there, the beacon. The beacon was with the lighthouse. But what they've tried to say over the years is the lighthouse is what we were involved with. But it wasn't because that wasn't where we had our first encounter in the forest or what we saw by the cottages. We didn't see the beacon until after we crossed the road going into the next field. And then we did see some other lights

who were in the sky. Now, it's interesting that a book I wrote together with James Warren that other people contribute in weaponization of a UAP, we found out the lighthouse actually was involved. And the reason why is, and we can go into this later, is there was all kinds of technology that was being worked on right outside the back gate with Marlesome Heath, Ariabousie, and Nistead was involved. Some other facilities were involved and they were working on different technology, including there's a known phenomenon that was being investigated by the British government at the time by a couple, a little group of people that were down there investigating this phenomenon. So there was a lot of stuff going on. What people may not know about the area is that originally radar was developed. The first radar was developed in the United Kingdom right there, right down there at Orford Nest.

But they were developing it off of what they called the death ray, which was lasers. So they developed the radar and they were working on all that. And SDI was being worked on there. And most people say SDI didn't come into play until after Reagan became. president, no. It was already being worked on. There's documents to show that, and they were working on it right there. Marconi company, which was the English company at the time. It was an Italian English company that they were working on SDI right there. They were using a Loran system, which can go into the ground and above, and it sent even frequencies out. So they were actually putting frequencies

into the forest and into the ground. And the ground frequencies were probably what they were provoking the phenomenon with, which is what the guy that was involved with the study of that, his name's Andrew Pike, who wrote a book and then had to pull it because he caught pushed back on it from the government because he went too far. But anyway, so there's all kinds of technology going on. So getting back to that, we returned to the base. We met up with, you know, there were some people that came out, some, the flight chiefs came out and everything else. We really, at the time, and this is all stuff we found out, now I'm talking about a minute ago was stuff we found out over later. At the time, we were just defuddled. We just,

what was it? We don't know what was going on. We couldn't explain it. We couldn't understand it. At the time, we would have thought there's no way any of that could have been our own technology. So we ended up going back to turn in. We met with the shift commander. We went back out to the area, found some damage to the trees before I lived up base and so did Penniston. So we went out there for a damage to the tree hesitations in the ground. And there was a group of people looking at and the British police were out there at the time too. So once we got done with that, went back home. That would have been Friday, 26.

I was off Friday. Saturday morning I went up to the base early, and I got up on the desk before midnight shift got off that replaced us. And the guy told me something happened strange that night, including the shift commander, went out there, and something, a blue light went through her vehicle, shut it down, and she freaked out and had to be really the duty. So I went over to the, had breakfast, went over to the dorm,

talked to a couple of my friends, I worked on flight with, he said, hey, let's go out in the forest. It happened again. Let's see if we can figure out what's going on. And that was the third night. And when we went out there,

there was already people out there. Our Colonel Hall had a team out there. And there was a lot of security flight people out there from both swing in the night because swing all over. And eventually what happened was it's on the tape. There's a tape out there. It just Google the halt tape. And it describes some of what went on that night,

including it, You can hear on there that I requested to meet up with them, which I did eventually. And when I met up with them, we were talking about different things. You was pointing out these blue lights in the sky that were flying around. They wanted to know if I saw them the night before, which I guess briefly we saw something like that that strict across the sky. But we didn't seem like they were flying around that night. And then there was like a whitish, reddish light that was in the distance. You could see in the distance that came down into some trees.

that were out in front of us and came down into the trees and started moving towards us. And he asked me flat out, had I seen, was that when I saw the night before? And I said, you know, two nights before. And I said, I can't really say I need to get closer. So he let me in another guy that was on duty by the name of Sergeant Bestenza. And we went towards it. As we started going towards it, it got closer to us. And we actually requested permission to get closer, which we were authorized.

The last thing I remember is getting close to it. But as we were running towards, Bistensig went to the ground. He later said that something knocked them to the ground and held them to the ground. And his story is he saw me go into it and I disappeared. And I was gone for several minutes. And then whatever it was dissipated and I reappeared. And then he was able to get up. But he also had a part of it go over him, a little bit of him too.

But we can go into this because it was a big thing to get all this. But the United States government has acknowledged both Adrian and I that we were injured in the line of duty during that event. They haven't acknowledged what exactly what we were injured by. And what I mean by that is they won't tell us what we encountered other than to agree that the documentation we put forward in intrusion, including Project Condon, and UAP radiation and all that stuff contributed to what happened to us. so we are both being compensated and treated for injuries received during the event. That's a big deal. That's a real big deal.

Do you think that this, that itself contributes to the state of the UFO outlook when it comes to the government? I mean, you had this experience a long time ago. You start coming out and what was it? I think 2010, 2011 you start coming out. coming out talking about this stuff? No, actually, the first time I ever talked about it would have been in 1988. Oh, really? When I actually, oh, yeah, as soon as I got out of active duty, I started getting calls.

I was supposed to go on a show, but I called UFO cover-up live, but the executive producer wanted to do something different. So talk me out of doing it. I really wasn't sure I was going to do it anyway. But, yeah, so then the first main show that I did was Unsolved Mysteries in the early 90s and did that with Colonel Hall and a whole bunch of other people that were involved in the incident. They also interviewed them for the Insolved Mysteries piece too. But when I really started again trying to figure out what went on was right before the 30th.

And I tried to get people together. And that's another whole mess. There's all kinds of camps about people to support the binary code, people that behind Colonel Hall, which is understandable. He was a colonel. he was out there, why wouldn't you want to talk to the, you know, the guy that was the highest ranking person and a high-ranking officer that was involved, you know, then I'm kind of on my own and went by my own. I'm just trying to figure out what happened to us. So we're doing

a bunch of research with different people, including the guy I wrote the book with James Warro, and we started uncovering technology that probably came into play in all this. So at the time, 2010 is when started looking at it closer. again. Then I got sick. And that's when the cover up by the government really started. They even denied I was in the Air Force from 79 to 82. And my medical records are classified. And that was the whole thing that went on with Senator. First was Senator Kyle. They had covered that my records were classified. And then Senator McCain got involved because Kyle retired. And all kinds of stuff went on with denial. Then we proved I was in. Then they said to do an appeal. Then they said,

thank you. They had to draw the appeal and stated, thank you. The case is closed. Then McCain threatened to do an actual hearing on the event because it was clear that stuff was going on and they even denied I was in it first. So at that point, the Department of Justice got involved, the Inspector General got involved. They put in somebody with the high clearance to start looking at my stuff, who confirmed all my stuff was actually classified.

He even went as far, you know, is saying that he's never seen anything like that in his career where I, they couldn't even get access to my medical records. And he had a clearance that he should have been able to. So, but eventually when it all came to fruition with McCain's pressure and the aid that helped Cheryl Bennett, who was really in this from the beginning, she, you know, after Kyle dropped it, I was able to get my disability and acknowledgement from the government that, um, that I was injured during the event. People have argued with that. I presented evidence to show that the government acknowledged. See, to get your compensation, you have to prove you were injured in the line of duty,

and you have to show where the injuries took place, and you have to show documentation. And I did all that, and then government, and so did Adrian, and the government acknowledged that what happened is what, you know, happened during that event. But like I've said over and over, they've never really said anymore, other than we will treat. you, you know, we will compensate you, but we won't go into any more details. In fact, I was told that they weren't going to acknowledge any more of our

FOIAs because they had held back documents even to McCain's office, and we requested those documents, and we requested whether my records in writing were classified, and they wouldn't even answer that. You know, the DOD wouldn't answer that either, so. Man. Well, the health,

the health ramifications of this is apparent, obviously, for you firsthand. And, you know, you mentioned earlier about how, you know, you think you'd be dead by now if it wasn't for the interference. So do you feel like, hey, I got my medical care. I'm being compensated. I'm good. You know, like, or do you feel like there's some kind of mission that you're wrong with all this? I mean, like, this, this, this had to be paradigm shifting for you of an experience. But that's a great question, and I'll answer to you. I'll be truthfully answered.

When in 2010, when I got sick, I'll actually start it in 11 is where I got sick again. And I just want to verify some other people may not be aware of this either, is right after the event, I got sick. I didn't feel well. And eventually they found a heart murmur. They sent me to write Patterson at the time I didn't understand ramifications. That's where they do all this stuff. They examine people. And that's my medical part of my records that are, well, all of them are classified, but that is what they won't.

let anybody get access to. And also my eye stuff that I ended up O'Ford Hall for, and they won't, those are the two things that they will not allow access to, but they've just classified all my medical records. But when I started going public, because I was getting sicker, and my civilian doctors couldn't figure it out, and that's when they wanted to see the stuff on when they first diagnosed the heart, I had a CIA guy show up, contact my lawyer, and he ended up meeting with him, meeting with me, evaluating me, and he gave some information to the, to the DODVA about what caused my injuries. And interesting enough, the document was given through him as treating me through my lawyer, so it's attorney doctor privileged. So I was told by him to give it to them. That started a whole

chain of events. But at the same time, I made a contact with the guy that worked inside government that I knew that I understood technology. When he found out I knew about this stuff, he flipped out and said I knew classified material that I shouldn't have known. So what he ended up giving out to us was classified and it had to stay and was, you know, classified. It was then immediately what was in this document was classified. So I did get my treatment. But, after I got all this, he did a brief synopsis of what was going on with me. And above top secret, I don't know if you're aware of that website, but it's in the book. And he laid out, my records were classified, it was under an SAP program, what my, what basically

he did a brief analysis of what caused my injuries, which was radiation, would be UAP radiation, which is terror-based. So he laid all that out. But at that point, I was ready just to let it go. And he basically said he was never going to talk about helping me, nor was, they actually wanted to do. They were doing some other work for the government, a DNA study. They were studying the brain for people that had incidents with UAPs, including special forces and stuff. But they leaked all that stuff out.

He did on an above top secret about me. They did a book with Annie Jacobson where they talked about the DNA study. and then they also did some stuff with Gary Nolan was involved with the DNA study and the study of the brain where people that have had interactions with UAPs. So it became pretty clear that I was now sucked into this whole thing, that I wasn't able just to kind of disappear and let it go. I did, was going to, I told everybody immediately, my lawyer wrote up a brief summary saying by de facto the government and the, you know, UAPs existed.

But at the point of time, and they actually were actually, where people stepped up other lawyers that wanted to push harder for my records and other stuff, which I don't think most people understand the government, especially if you're in it, can classify anything they want. So everybody felt I had access to these records, but I don't. You know, if they classify it, I don't even have access to it, you know, and only they can decide what doctor and who's going to evaluate me and who's going to work on me. And there are certain doctors within the VA that can only look at my heart stuff and stuff, and they have to go through

somebody else for final approval. So I knew I was stuck in this and they've been coming after me for different things since then. Like I did unidentified because they asked me to. They wanted me to go up to D.C. and meet with Congress and do some other stuff and I told them no. And that was partly because I wasn't going to travel because my health has gotten. I had some more health issues. But I really don't want to be involved in this. What I mean by that is get involved into the toxic mess of government because they haven't even been honest about this law that they passed. A whistleblower act does not protect me about talking about classified stuff. I can admit that I was involved in an incident and so can other people like these pilots. But they can't openly talk about

what equipment they were using, what sensors, and how it worked and everything else, unless they get approval from the government, you know, agencies themselves. And so they act like this just means that you can just go up there and run your mouth and not get in trouble for it. You can't just go up and talk about classified stuff unless the people behind the different projects authorize you to do it. So this is not factual of what the public's been presented. Yeah, and I totally agree with you. It's often more complicated than what the media or people are trying to lead on. What it sounds like to me is if you, you know, if you could go back and control history, but you had to go through the event, if you could go back and if they were to say to you,

you know, if you were to say, if I were to tell you this, you had the experience, nothing you can do about it, but you can have the health care and compensation and never be bothered with this whole story. It's just a story you tell your family around a campfire. It sounds like you would take that option versus what was laid before you over the last, what, 30 years or so. Well, okay, that's kind of the way I took it in the first place was when we were called in and wrote a statement and had to talk to the chain of command, was they said they'd get back to us that needed something they were looking into it and i let it go and it wasn't until the news of the world came out so you're right if they would have just behind the scenes treated me

and stuff and told me to keep my mouth shut because it was classified i would have done that yeah i mean in fact i didn't want to talk to cnn but i got told i had to i mean by that time my name was out there and they felt i think they just felt like if if they said i wouldn't talk to them they would actually CNN would think that I was being told not to talk to them. So I had to publicly acknowledge to them that, okay, I'm here, but I'm not going to go public with it. But eventually I did, I mean, because there was so much garbage that was being put out about it and stuff.

And they told me I could talk about it. But yeah, what I've preferred to remain quite sure, because this isn't over. I mean, there's a lot of forces going on with this. There's a lot of power going on. but it's behind this that people don't really understand that involves technology. And this group of people that contacted me and helped keep me going, they're involved in trying to get funding for technology they're trying to develop, including Chris Mellon.

All these guys are involved with companies that are trying to get the next, you know, funding for the next, the new technology going forward. And stuff, so there's a lot of stuff going on with this. And little guys like me don't, very, very well if the big people don't like what I'm saying or what I'm doing. Yeah. You know, and I'm not talking about I'll wake up dead tomorrow, but I'm just saying you don't really want to tick off people if you don't, you know, if you don't have to, you know.

Absolutely. You know, there's no really road to this. People think disclosures come and it's not. It's not coming to the simple reason. They're never going to talk about what they know because they're using it to make weapons out of it. They're weaponizing the UAP. In the book, it shows where the British government meant it to me in writing that they were studying and weaponizing the UAP. When they did the hearings, that was a question. And the guy said, we can't talk about that open. We have to go behind closed doors.

You know, I'm so glad you said that because I went, so I would say about 2017, 2018, is fair to say. Around that time is when it really started become mainstream. This closure. December of it, December of 2017 when the New York Times article broke. So with that, I mean, since then, since then, I've been saying, guys, you're holding your breath for something. I personally feel the same way.

And for me, it's refreshing to hear you say that as somebody who would be, you know, more in tune to be able to say such a thing. I'm just a bystander. Now, you mentioned about the weaponization. I think, because so we live in a time where we're living a very extraordinary times right now. And right now, we're in the middle of this whole tension globally with these other countries. And people are talking a lot about nuclear war. And I'm sitting here and part of me in my gut, you know, you're a little nervous.

But I'm thinking, I think there's, and I don't know what it is. But I feel like there's something more I should be worried about than the nukes. I feel like there's another weapon out there that's far more advanced that maybe another country even has that we don't or that we both have. And it's just top secret nobody talks about. And I think I remember you talking about at some point there being development of weapons from this incident that you were involved in in the forest. Is that, am I remembering that correctly? Yeah, well, they were going on, this was going on. before our event, there was the area down there at Orford Nest is basically the British is Area 51,

if you want to compare it to American stuff. But they've been working on stuff like that way before Area 51, you know, became, you know, known or was really operational. This had been stuff that had been going on down there in the 30s and 40s, and they were doing all kinds of stuff there. And the story I got was that when I don't, people, people probably don't remember this, but back in the 70s, a bunch of stuff got exposed, the CIA was doing the illegally, M.K. Alter and stuff like that. And Carter became president. They were shutting all this stuff down in the States. Well, all they did was transferred over to the United Kingdom. And it was put under defense contractors like companies and stuff like that. And

so they were still working on it. They just took it off U.S. soil, most of it. And so they were Yeah, it was all kinds of stuff going on with plasmas. And I mean, you have to really go into plasmas. And Condine talks about this stuff and how it's real, it's alive, it's intelligent. It can do things that can't be explained. And all that stuff can be used. It can be used for cloaking. I don't know if you want to a time dilation bubble is,

but they're able to create that with radars and stuff like that, where you can go in. I'm pretty sure that's what happened to me, especially on night three, where I went into a time dilation. bubble and that's when he saw me disappear and um that changes you're in a different paradox with time are you are you saying i'm sorry are you saying that what was it a time bubble so are we talking like time dilation they can create it with radars and they can create wormholes they can do all this stuff they can create many wormholes and different things like that now are you now can i say

that they can travel through a wormhole yet i don't there's we haven't found documentation to support that But they can create wormholes and they can create these time dilation bubbles using radars and stuff. And they could do that back in 1980. And like those blue lights that we were seeing were being controlled by lasers and stuff. And those were plasmas that they either created themselves or the phenomenon when they were messing with the phenomenon were actually flying around from the phenomenon itself. And the phenomenon itself is an energy field that's there. And there's different places in the world that have these energy fields that can create this phenomenon, which they now call UAP underdified aerial phenomenon. And they can create these effects.

I mean, you could go up to Skidwock or you can go to Bradshaw-Lanch and Sedona and different places like down in Missouri, Marfa, no, Marphalites, where those are those at? Those are down in Texas. I forget there's stuff that they see, spook lights or whatever, Missouri. You have up there, I forget what country it is. They have all that stuff up there. But if you go back and research this, a lot of this stuff started appearing when radars started becoming operational. And the foo fighters themselves,

that stuff was probably stuff created by radars and stuff and plasma guns, but the Germans were using. We've done a lot of research on this, and we can show the documentation to support all this. Hey, I love everything you're saying right now because, so first of all,

I want to say, you mentioned Skimwalker. I'm literally, like, I went out there last year, and very soon I'm coming out with a film based off of that area. We stayed on the property right next to Skimwalker Ranch, like I butted up against it, and we found some incredible things. But just last week, I had somebody just text me a picture, a screenshot of a news article from Vice. And the headline says here, scientists are preparing to create and traverse quantum wormhole. And when I saw that, I looked it up and I started reading it. And I can't remember exactly everything that's involved in it right now. But I remember sitting there reading something that I'm like, this seems like they're saying,

scientists are getting ready to traverse into another dimension, like literally the ability to go from one place to another. Yeah, but that's not really, that's not a dimension. You have to, there's a paper out there that I've talked about. and it's, you know, that I put on my Facebook page before, how put off wrote this paper. And it's metric space time. And what it is is it's kind of like Star Trek,

where you create a plasma bubble, time galilation bubble, and then you can, you know, warp into with the bubble. You can use like warp drive, whatever, you know, that is, plasma drive or whatever you want to call it. And you can create this bubble and go. And it would create a wormhole. Yeah. It would create a wormhole.

But you're not really going. I'm not a physicist, so don't ask me to try to. Because I'll screw it up. But you can't create an effect where you can do, like create a time dilation bubble and then do that. Yeah. And they're working on that. That's incredible. It does involve quantum.

Quantum is the big step that moves this forward. Quantum computing, quantum satellites. The Chinese have both. We have both. And different things like that, the advancements are there now. that never mind that they've studied this phenomenon, and the 280 phenomenon long enough to know how to create these effects, the big thing's going to be creating a ship

and being able to shield the people from the injuries that they could sustain. And I'm pretty sure that's why they reached out to me. I mean, they also did reach out to me that was interesting. When we testified to Citizens' Hearing, that was when Green showed up afterwards, was that we talked about McCain. So after I got my settlement, they immediately went to John McCain, which it's online, and they declassified some DIA documents. I think there were 38 of them.

They went to his committee to start getting funding for this technology. They were talking about wormholes. They were talking about, you know, quantum leap and all this other stuff. So they actually partly saw the opening to McCain after he was read into all this stuff because of me. because once he found out what was going on, he was ticked that, you know, I wasn't taken care of. He didn't necessarily think everything should be made public. He just felt like, why are they not taking care of me? Why does this have to go to this level to get me the treatment I deserve?

You know, and that both is all his bigger age said, and so did Kyle's. They said, you're never going to find out what happened, but we're going to get you the treatment you deserve. You were definitely hurt. You were definitely hurt during the event, but we're never going to, you're never going to, you're never going to know what exactly took place. But we've pieced a lot of it together anyway ourselves through declassified documents. Never mind the fact that I stayed in active and I got a reserve and got called on active quite a bit until 2004. And I actually saw some of this stuff that we experienced in the force in 80 being utilized why I was in on active duty over in the

Middle East. So, I mean, it's there. They're working on this technology. There is some kind of intelligent life here. Bigelow said it. He was the one that came out and said they're here among us, but no one's ever got him to tell you what he meant by it. I don't know if they just didn't ask or he won't answer. And then he was the one that came up with the word confirmation for Trump's disclosure, which means we're going to get confirmation of something's going on,

but that's as far as we're going. You're not going to get disclosure. We're not going to go into great detail and why and what's going on. We're just going to confirm there's something here and something going on. And obviously they're building weapons off of it. And you're going to start seeing advancements in technology and strange stuff flying around in the sky. And, you know, it all ties together. So what do you think it is?

I mean, if they're here living among us kind of thing, like, do you have any opinion? Because, I mean, some people would say it's alien. Some people would say it's other dimensional beings or even demonic entities. What are your thoughts on it? Well, I can't speak for everybody's experience, okay? because if you just saw that New York post hit piece that they went after the whole thing. Did you see that last week? No, I didn't.

Or it came out. They went after Lou Alizondo. They said that some of what's been going on inside Congress contributed to the balloon and stuff that's gone on. It hasn't been not paying attention to play. But it's a, it came out, I think, like last Thursday. And there was a hit piece, and they basically went after this hard. And one of the things that they said was that the report was written.

by the guy that wrote, and I can't think of his name now, said that they were looking at advancements in aerospace between now at 2050. But in reality, they also wanted to study demonic stuff and other things that went on, including what went on in Skidwarker. But that would have discredited the funding from Reed, getting the funding that he got and everything else. But in reality, if you just go off a condine, and if you go to the fact that they admit there is some kind of exotic, whatever you want to call it, a UAP, that it's there, it's intelligent, it's able to do things that they couldn't explain,

you know, or they want to learn how to do, but I don't know totally if they didn't already have a good idea or somebody did. But there's some kind of intelligent something here that people have had experiences with, including the military. Now, is there demons and other stuff? I haven't looked at that, so I can't answer that.

But I definitely know pretty much, based on everything that I've looked at, and the documents and the experience I've had with the government that we were exposed to whatever a UAP was. And it injured me. And I probably would have died that night if I hadn't had a rare genetic thing that my valve was damaged. And you have two leaflets in each valve and the mitral valve was damaged. But I had an extra leaflet.

So when they finally figured out what was going on, the two leaflets kept me alive. If I'd have just had one leaflet, it probably would have killed me the night I went out there. I'm sure you thought about this, but do you, is there any, and there's, there's so many hoops to jump through, but with what you just said, do you feel like there's any possibility that you were set up for this whole situation, that they have any medical records knowing that that would be a possibility for you to survive such? No, because you would have had to have done an echo, which I hadn't had done before. And the only time I just happened to get a couple of little pieces of my record after I had my surgery. And in that, they acknowledged that they were doing, you know, they were analyzing two leaflets, not one that, there were three leaflets that were analyzing. But when I asked my cardiologist, he just looked at it, said, yeah, and I go, and he goes, and you don't need to know. Basically, they took my DNA.

They analyzed it through a DNA analyzing program. And they had tissue and they were working on all that. And I got told very, very bluntly that all that stuff, I think he was shocked, I got my hands on it because I went right down to the hospital at Davis, not Davis-Montam, but down there at the VA hospital. And I got a few things out of it from the VA that hadn't been locked down yet. And he was shocked I got it. And he just said, you don't have the need to know what's going on with this.

But no, I don't think we were selected. I think there have been testing going on because weird things have been seen around the base for years before. And I just think that particular night, it all happened to come together where a bunch of stuff was going on. We saw some strange stuff. Somehow radar picked something up and a decision was made to send us off base. Because my point is, as people said we were set up, well, then I guess then they wanted us to go out there two more nights then. Because normally if you're trying to keep things quiet, Halt would never have been out there by night three. because obviously the base didn't know

because why would they send them out there tromping around in the forest if they knew something like that was going on. I think after all that happened and then they had to kind of play their hands somewhat to some of the people on the base. You know what went on. Because too many people were involved

that too many people saw something. Right. But I don't believe that we were set up for that. I do believe that they early on knew that they, we were exposed to something and they monitor us over the year because one of the interesting thing was my DNA is supposedly not in any database except for one and it's a military database. So I have unique DNA supposedly. You're a nephalum then. I don't know. I have the reports,

but it's the, I actually got the reports because I had that verified separate from my VA, I eventually agreed to go in the government study for the 100 people that were exposed to UAPs. And I worked out a deal where I could also have my personal DNA analyzed because I'm adopted. And it came back unique. So whatever you want to make off of it. I go back to my bloodline, suppose it goes back, 10,000 back to Christ. And it's a unique bloodline. And I've had mostly ancient, not alien, but be careful.

Ancient native blood is what I have. I don't have the typical European or whatever in my bloodline. Okay. That's interesting. Now, let me ask you a question. Speaking of memories and things like that, what do you remember? So the night that you supposedly disappeared and possibly into this time, I forget what you called it, I keep wanting to say time bubble.

But do you remember anything? It's called a time dilettialation bubble. Time dilation bubble. Yeah. So, like, when that happened, what's your memory? Like, he says he saw you disappear, but what do you remember from that moment? I don't. That's the problem.

Both nights, the first night I remember getting close to something, and then it just went up and went away. I remember it leaving. The night with Adrian, what he saw, I just remember getting close to it. And then I'm standing there in the field, nothing's there anymore. And I'm looking at him getting up off the ground. And, I mean, so the second night when he saw me disappear, I don't remember anything other than getting close to it. The first night, I remember seeing something kind of rise up into the sky, up and through

the trees and go out. And that was part of the things that we couldn't understand. How did it move through the trees like that? And how did it go up into the trees and disappear like that? And then the next day we found damage to the canopy above on the forest. But it makes sense off of what a plasma can do. And actually, plasmas can leave those indentations. in the ground. And in fact, the interesting thing was that the first night, the guy said he saw a

triangular object. And the third night, when I went into it, Adrian said he didn't put that in the book, but I'm going to say what he told to me that he did write in the book. He saw it explode into a triangular type object. And the interesting thing is plasmas can do that. And on a halt on the tape, he talks about the Starscope, seeing something like dripping molten and all. that, winking, that's a wormhole. We've got documentation to show that that would be a wormhole that was a wormhole being created. He was looking at a wormhole, a mini wormhole. I think people like me from our perspective, we're sitting here in curiosity and trying to use our imagination as best we can to imagine what you guys saw that night, all individually and together. And we tend to be

fascinated by this stuff. To you, especially now, I imagine it's just old hat. It's like it is what it is. But looking back on this stuff, the memories that you have and the memories that others have and how they differ and things like that, have you ever considered or I'm sure it has come up, the idea of, because you mentioned about MK. Ultra moving to the UK. Have you ever considered the idea of memory implantation? Because there have been people who have claimed that they believe that they have memories that were implanted into either of themselves. or relatives when it comes to their experiences that they were remembering. Well, the interesting thing is this, that there were people that said they were brought in interrogated. I don't remember that.

I don't remember being interrogated. But at the end of the day, if you go into the Condon report, it actually says that when you have close encounters with this kind of stuff, it'll affect your memory, what you do and don't remember and how close you got to it will affect it differently. and the actual radiation, the EM frequencies can affect your mind, and that's what they were studying. They wanted to do a study on people that have had UAP interaction on the core, you know, up here in the front cortex up here with the, what is that? Pineal gland? What is it?

Yeah, they wanted to look at that area. And then they also wanted to look at the DNA. So could things have been affected by the phenomenon itself, probably? I mean, it could be. But, I mean, pretty consistently, I did some hypnosis and pretty much the same thing I remember. I remember other than it does add a few things to what I don't remember. My hypnosis does. And they actually wanted to do another study.

I didn't end up doing the mind part because I've got a pacemaker and they couldn't justify it. They took my DNA. But they also were studying. They wanted, the government was going to do a study on studying what you remember. and don't remember under hypnosis. And they asked me to be a part of that. And I told them, no. So I'm done with your studies.

I'm not interested anymore. You're done being a lab rat, huh? Well, the problem is, is they've got this story set up now where I'm weekly getting contacted by different people that want to do documentaries because they've gotten this in the limelight so much. And now I am not saying other people haven't been injured, but Rendell Shams public. It was made public 40 years ago. It's public that I was injured and the VA's compensated me.

So a lot of people want to talk about injuries now and they want to talk about that. I've got two emails today with other companies that want to talk about it. So they're getting around to this. Do I believe somewhat that the government's building their own story to affect the public's perception. I do. And that's another reason why I just don't want to play. I'm just, like from the very beginning, I didn't agree with the memo because the truth, I knew the truth would probably, since there was that much interest in it, more would come out and it was not factual. It took a while to prove that the memo was wrong because people finally found the breach police

logs showed what times they went out there in different things. So it was proven if the memo wasn't proper and written right. But I mean, I don't like to be a part of a government narrative or what they're trying to do to influence the people. That's one of the reasons why I wrote the weaponization book. I laid it out on what I fell happen to me and working with other people that put stuff in there. And one of the things in the book that there was an engineer from the UK did a chapter on, not only was all this going on, they brought a satellite down. During the whole time they brought a Russian satellite down during the whole thing that was going on too. And he laid it all out and sent that report to Colonel Hought. And he pretty much

agreed that that's what happened. So there was all kinds of stuff going on. But the thing is, is that it's so easy to make people believe something the government wants you to believe. Yeah. And I don't want to be a part of that. And I understand that. They have many, they have many avenues to get to the final destination. There's not just one track for them to get to what they want. And speaking of government narrative, what do you think the, what do you think the end goal is? Is it just more control over people through fear-based things that, you know, they don't quite understand. So let us be your savior and tell you what it is, which is what we want you to believe it is. And then you,

you know, forfeit more rights. Or what are your thoughts as the, the end goal is here when it comes to government narrative when it comes to these things with not just your incident, but just in general, all this, you, I say UFO. I hate the UAP thing because I think it's like the government trying to hijack the UFO terminology. But the whole topic... The stigma with UFOs is aliens, little green men, you know, attacking us. They set that up on TV and everything else in the war of the world. So I think, you know, UAP is a little bit less intrusive of are the aliens coming down here to attack us and eat us all and destroy our civilization.

So UAP's fine for me. But, I mean, ultimately, you could look at what Reagan said where it would unite the world. world, you know, but what you unite the world under the world government, you know what I mean, which would control people even more, because people have a tendency to give a lot up when they feel they're threatened by something. You know, when there's world wars, they'll give up a lot of things because under the veil of, you know, your security, it could be what von Braun warned us about, weaponization of space. You know what I mean? That's what he said before he died was they're going a weaponized space. Well, we have space command now and everything else. I mean, but ultimately,

you can't, the government, where Carlin used to say this, which I thought was hilarious, they give you the illusion you have control, but they, we don't. We have more control than some countries do, you know, communist countries and stuff, but, but overall, the government drives the narrative, you know, and just like with COVID, I'm not trying to get into nuts and bolts of it, but they sure were able to manipulate it to get a lot of people to come on board and stuff that's now proven out wasn't totally factual. So, yeah, they're going to control the narrative. Can't let a crisis go without manipulation.

Absolutely. Never let a good crisis go to waste. Yeah. So on this general topic here, I'm sure you've heard of it, but what are your thoughts on the idea of Operation Bluebeam? Do you think that there's a plan in place to, you know, basically manipulate the masses to say, you know, well, let's put something out there so they can all see it so that once we get that fear base going because they all saw it, then we can really truly manipulate and control the situation. Well, interesting enough where I'm working on a little project that's on the UNX network, we're doing a, I used to do the Phenominium radio show with Linda Bolton Howe. And we're playing the repeats of that, trying to get people to go back and listen to what we were talking about technology three, four, five years ago.

And we had brought different people in to talk about that. But we're doing at least one or two shows a month where we're laying this out. And back during the Cuban Missile Crisis, they were actually trying to create the voice and a picture of God over the Cuban people to get them to turn against Castro, because God told them. And so could they possibly get technology enough to create effects to get people to do something that, you know, they would not normally do? Sure. I mean, I believe the Phoenix Lights was a test of a large population to see how what they saw in the sky would affect, you know, how they would react to it. I don't believe for one minute that was alien technology. That was some of our technology.

it was being tested over the city. Yes. Yeah. And you know, along those lines, I would say, and I don't know if you, this has not been something that's been talked about a lot. So I don't know if I'm missing something or what, but I would say about in 2019, 2018, there was some videos, multiple videos. There was three videos.

I know that for sure that all showed different vantage points of a pyramid-shaped UFO floating above the Pentagon. And one was shot from Arlington Cemetery. one was shot from a car driving by the Pentagon on the highway that night. And I forget what the other one was. But it was three different vantage points. And I had actually interviewed the one guy who was in the Arlington Cemetery about it. And he was just talking to me about what he saw that night.

And at the time when I was talking to him, I was like, man, this is incredible. Like, this is really cool footage. As times gone on, I started thinking about the idea of Operation Blue Beam and how would they test that technology and would. Because it doesn't make sense to me that, like something like that. I mean, it was big. Something like that over the Pentagon. you think that would be like a national security kind of thing. Like that's not just going to happen and blow over.

Nobody's going to talk about it. Have you, do you have any idea what I'm talking about? No, sure. That's part of the plasma stuff. They can create these effects. They can do these different things. And just remember that most people don't think about like even balloons can be used.

They can put them up high and they can put technology on it, platforms and stuff and create effects. There was just an article in the British paper. over there where they think they've figured out the Calvin incident. And one of the things in the article showed is patent that they have in this triangular object that can create EM effects and stuff like that. So, yeah, they could create that. They could use satellites to do it, balloons.

They could also use like some of these bigger aircraft that they could create stuff from. We've advanced so far in technology, people don't understand it. Just have to go back and say, well, how far are we advanced? We're probably three or four decades farther along than people understand, maybe more, because if you just go back to the F-117, they didn't even give it up until the middle to a little 880s, but we interviewed a guy that was working on Greenglow that the F-117 was being tested on British radars in 1980. So that means that was eight to ten years before they even acknowledged it existed. And then they first tried to come out and say it was just on R&D or just barely being tested, you know, on a test model.

But they had they had squadrons of them already active and operational. So there's all kinds of stuff that they have that they could utilize and create effects, you know. And not only that, but what people don't understand, and I'll probably get called a conspiracy guy, but the higher the Wi-Fi goes, like 5G and stuff, the more they can use those towers to actually, emit EM frequencies that could affect your mind on what they're perceiving you think you see. It's like there's a thing on the God's helmet where they tested it on people. People thought they saw God because they were using this helmet-like thing to put frequencies in their mind and people thought they saw God when they put the frequencies into the mind.

So yeah, that's capable. Do they have it to the point where they can control it completely? I don't know. I mean, because it could go backwards on them. You know what I mean? If, you know, it could backfire on them, but they're working on this type of technology. They're using it in the battlefields. There were reports in the Gulf War where soldiers dropped their weapons and ran.

Yes. Because of stuff that appeared in front of them and stuff. So, yeah, they're working on it. It's called non-lethal weapons, if you want to call it that. Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm 100% on board with everything you just said. When I was still driving truck years ago, I'd run into a guy who, he used to be an for the military back in the 60s, and he said that the night vision that we have access today,

he said they were developing back in the 60s. And so it kind of gives you that perspective at how far and advanced technology-wise our governments are versus what we have access to. Well, Dave, actually, there's documents out there that you can look online. Darp is working on being able to transport somebody from one point to another like Star Trek. And they're working also on telepathy where you could compete on the battlefield. Now, the one is very interesting that they're working on. And they're many more and more about AI is they're trying to take consciousness

and put it into a computer or a weapon where it can be controlled by a human. And now they haven't really said how it was telepathy or like Stargate where they can somebody on the ground like there was a movie called Ender Games or something where it was a movie with Harrison Ford in it

where you could control something with your mind, whatever. because you can actually break like these drones and stuff that they're being controlled from the ground or through satellites. If you get the right frequency, you can disconnect it and then bring the object down. But if you can have a drone or a separate piece, a weapon that's independent of all that. It's a lot more dangerous, especially if it can self-learn, which they've openly admitted now that they have that because they openly admitted if they gave the Ukrainians drones that can hover and select targets on their own and hit them. without any control from the ground.

Wow. So they're going very deep into this, in the mind and everything else. That's incredible. Yeah. You know, we're living in interesting times. I mean, what you're describing right now,

it even sounds to me like a pathway to what you're describing full-blown could be Elon Musk's neuralink. I mean, the idea of controlling things with your mind through it just an implantation of a chip might be one way to going about doing that. Right. I mean, that's going on. I mean, people, I don't think most, I mean, most people are too busy caught up on the woke stuff. And I mean, I'm just being honest, whether it's right or right, whether you agree with it or not, we're fighting about things and they're keeping you completely occupied on all this crazy stuff that just ticks everybody off at each other and keeps at each other's throats. Meanwhile, behind the, you know, door number three, they're working on all this stuff.

Yes. You know, and then one day it's going to be pow, where stuff's going to start happening, and then people are going to start, what, what, you know? And, you know, the people that were talking about the stuff that are conspiracy people, all of a sudden it's going to be like, well, I told you, but that doesn't matter now.

You know, it's really manipulation of an entire culture to be so self-centered that they can't think or perceive of anything outside themselves. And that is- That was what Carlin said. I don't know if you saw that piece. No, I didn't. Yeah, there's a, it's a thing that he did, he did a, he did it at a show one time.

And he just talked about all that. They don't want intelligent people. They don't want people. The politicians, everybody's controlled. They're going to, you're going to do what they tell you. They give you the illusion of the fact that you have say, but you don't really and stuff. It's a funny video. Oh, yeah, I know what you're talking about now.

Yep. And he calls about the red, white, and blue, you know, and, you know, so, you know, and he was so, you know, and he was so spot on. It was like 10 or 15 years ago he did this, maybe 20 now. But that's where we are today. And, you know, it's just like right now, last night they were talking about it on the news. You know, they were talking about how they want to get rid of TikTok, but they don't really, they're not really going to have to TikTok. They're using that to really clamp down more on social media overall

because they're going to get rid of TikTok and clamp down on any other company that's going to be in social media. So they're going to take more people's rights away from them. even though necessarily that some of what goes on social media is good for the public anyway. But they're really trying, it's just like after 9-11, they put the Patriot Act in. Temporary, right? That's temporary, right? No, that's still there. They just voted it again. And the interesting thing about it was both the Democrats and Republicans voted it in.

There was no fighting about it. It was just quietly passed, you know, re-extended. So they have all these spy rights and everything else. And so you just slowly are losing more and more of your freedoms and stuff, never mind, they're learning more and more how to manipulate people to get them to fight with each other. So that just gives them more opportunity to get away with what they're doing. Absolutely. You know?

You just laid out the entire blueprint right there. I mean, this show is going to be censored now because of it. They do do that. They are censoring shows. I mean, you can kind of know when you're getting too close to something when you get blocked off it. YouTube, you know, or they just limit who can watch the show, but it's just happening. And the biggest thing that's a lot of people that I've talked to is the 5G going forward is going to be the final nail in the coffin for manipulation. Because they're going to be able to control everybody has a phone and they're going to be able to use the phone against you by creating the frequency wave.

So your mind, they may be with something up in the sky. it's completely different than what it really is, but through the frequency, through the phone in an area, you'll be like, whoa, you know, I just saw this or there's the alien or whatever. You know, God's here. You know, I don't know what they're going to do, but they could definitely do it. I mean, so. Yeah. You know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I'm a Christian. And I've thought about this stuff a lot. And I think it's going to be very trying time. When this stuff starts getting implemented, I think there's going to be a lot of people who are faith-based, you know, let's just say Christian. Forget about all the other religions. Just say Christians. They know what they believe right now.

And then when their eyes are telling them something completely different, in those moments, they're going to have to have the wherewithal to check back to what they believe and what they understand versus what they're seeing right with their own eyes. And I think going into these experiences, it's important for people to understand the power of technology being developed right now to know that it's even a possibility that you're literally your mind and eyes could be tricked. And I think that's a huge thing moving forward. But can I bring something up because I want to go into something else off a time travel that's being pushed right now? Well, let's go to religion, okay? When the council and the CEMET, that group decided to use religion to control humanity.

So all I'm saying is I'm not for one minute like the idea that they can put stuff up in the sky and manipulate people to follow whatever they want. But they've been using that manipulation as far back as ancient times manipulating people with religion. I mean, the Catholic Church was brutal to the Native Americans and different things that they did all in the name of God. So the thing is, is what, what you, the Bible itself, so written by man, and they've changed the Bible, they've rewritten it, they've taken out stuff. You know, like, what is it? What is the one, the big one where they talk about alien? Yeah, Enoch, you can't even really get it Enoch and stuff. So all I'm getting at is, if you believe there's a superior being or God, great.

but a lot of the stuff that you may have been fed, how do you know for sure that's actual real? You know, because there's a lot of evil done in the name of God. You know what I mean? Just history shows that, you know? I mean, Jesus himself was crucified in the name of God by the Jews. So I would just say it's not something that's new. It's been going on forever.

And it's gotten better because once the radio came into play than TV, and now the phone, which is a walking computer, you know, and the Wi-Fi, it's all, it's just an extension that's been going on since you can go back as far as history and realize that people have been manipulated, you know? I mean, witchcraft was based on God, you know what I mean? She's a witch, and they burn people to the cross, you know, to the stake for that. That was a right. So I'm not, I believe in Christianity, but I don't believe in.

the way it's been presented in it during history, all the slaves. So don't lose your faith in what you feel is right and don't let your eyes fool you. But, I mean, it's just like Spielberg was on the other night and said, he believes his time travelers coming back. I thought that was interesting. I think he's probably going to do a movie on it. But in my hypnosis that I did, it implies that it was something from the future coming back to look at us.

and not only that, and I've never made that part, I've talked a couple of times about it recently because people wanted to know more about it, but I always said that if people thought the binary was a little strange, I've talked about this on a couple other times in shows, it implied that I was actually having an interaction with my future consciousness. That's interesting. Because that's the whole thing with consciousness.

Your body is take the mind. This is the way it's kind of, it's an easy way to explain it. The mind is the hard drive. The blood or the DNA and the body is the ones in zeros. Then the consciousness that comes in is the memory. And that's what activates the body and makes you who you are. But it feeds off the DNA, which is transformed from other people. You know, two people come together to create another bloodline.

Well, that's what they were trying to imply about my bloodline. and I have a son and his bloodline with his mother that we created him and he's got a new bloodline. Now, if that's the case, then you're constantly creating, upgrading the computer, which is the body, and the consciousness comes in and it grasped this knowledge. And then when it leaves, it goes back into a collective, which downloads collective of consciousness, which then downloads, and then they send out more consciousness. to the next group. And what is explained to me is,

they're looking at certain consciousnesses meet up with certain hard drives, you know, or, you know, the mind itself, because they're not always attracted to, you know, there's certain bloodlines that they're attracted to to to keep this.

Because when you create, two people create a new bloodline, there's more ones and zeros, which is data being uploaded to the consciousness. Do you, let me ask you a question. So if you think the binary download was crazy, just that's there. I mean, that's what Nolan's talking about. That's what they're talking about.

That's what they're studying. They're studying DNA to look at what's hidden in it. And they now know that within the junk DNA, they've never were able to study it. There are hidden messages inside the junk DNA. Right. Where do you think those messages come from? No idea. I mean, you could say from God, from the, you know, from the creator itself. I mean, that's where it's really, it's mind-boggling. You could sit there at night, staring up at the ceiling,

trying to put this all together, just like the interest in me with my mind, my DNA, you know, they wanted to study it further with hypnosis. You know, they're trying to put this all together. Yeah. No, I totally understand. we're kind of talking, we kind of veered in a different direction I didn't expect, which is fine, because I enjoy a conversation. So we're talking about this, we kind of went down this faith route and then these different things. What do you think, and this isn't for you per se, but just in general for general humanity, when it comes to this stuff, do you feel like it's easier for modern man to understand, accept, and appreciate more of a kind of like a matrix,

matrix simulation type theory of agenda for humanity, or to revert back to more of a foundational, historical foundational belief. Do you mean tribal? Tribal maybe, but like both can be tribal, you know? Like, it depends on what tribe you're identifying. And I mean, like, if you go into the simulation side of things, I mean, there's a whole tribal.

nature to that. And so, but like, for humanity today and where we're at with knowledge of technology and all that stuff, do you, how do you feel about, do you think it's going to be easier for people moving forward to still go with the, like I brought up earlier, the Christian route or versus,

you know, more scientific matrix simulation type route? Did you see the movie Angels and Demons? I have not. That's the one with Tom Hanks, right? Yeah, that's part of the Da Vinci Code was the first one, Angels and Demons. Angels and Demons, the actual movie ends with science and faith coming together. That's what needed to be done. You needed to have not just science, but faith, come together and actually had a Pope that was trying to bring that together at the end. So I believe, okay, this is going to go a little off the question, but here's what I'm going to tell you. These phones, all this EM stuff that's going on, whether you want to call to Creator, the Supreme Being, the actual collective consciousness is taken as farther and farther away

of being connected to that consciousness. Because it's keeping us from, like, the people that, think about this, the Buddha monks have to isolate themselves away from some mountaintop, away from everything, all the technology, and they have to meditate all the time to control that state of mind. And if they leave that area, they start to lose control, right? The Indians, the natives have to go up. They have their sweat lodges and they do their ceremonies and all that other stuff. You come the closest to whatever you want to call God, the creator, whatever.

You come the closest when you're free of all this stuff going on. And the deeper you get into the deeper, they advance the technology. the more they manipulate your mind, getting back to your true consciousness level and what you're able to do. I firmly believe that. And I think there are certain people that can overcome it easier than others, do you know what I mean, and can see things differently than others? You know what I mean? Or even if you're manipulated by this UAP phenomenon, whatever it is, you'll see things differently than other people will. Sure.

But do I think that people are advancing? No, we're digressing. We're being controlled by, if you want to call it the devil, evil, we're being shaped into evil and not good, more and more. Not that there's not good people and there's people that are overcoming this, but as a society, we're getting deeper and deeper into the evil abyss based off of the technology and how it's affecting us. If people look happier and closer now than they were before, no.

Some technologies help us make life easier. for us, but mentally we're not, we're not where we were a hundred years ago overall. Shoot, I'm 37 years old. I feel like I've digressed mentally in the last 10 years with technology in my pocket. I mean, the habits that I have created in my life, because I have a supercomputer in my pocket, it is, it is something that is concerning and also addicting in the sense that even though I see the issue, I haven't changed the source of the issue. I still have this supercomputer attached me everywhere I go. First thing I do when I wake up is I'm turning off that supercomputer because it's letting me know when it's time to wake up. And I'm setting it to tell

me when to wake up again the next day. It's the last thing I do is when I touch that phone. And it's a constant thing involved in our life. And it is definitely affecting humans in a negative way. And along these routes, it's easy to compromise and say, oh, well, let's use it for good. And that's fine. But there has to be, we have to come up with some way to put breaks on this and some way to self-regulate or else we're in some serious trouble. We're living in a time where because of this technology, we're able to communicate in ways we've never had before. And that might be showing in real time the detriment to humanity because the information is being skewed so much and so easily that we have things that happened just yesterday here in my home state of Tennessee

where we had a shooter shoot up the elementary school. A lot of that is coming from misdirected information. And maybe an access to information that maybe we're just not mentally. Our brains can't handle the amount of information we have access to and being able to discern where it all goes. Like physically, I'm talking biologically, can we take in as much information as we've been allowing ourselves to take in over time without going mad? I don't know.

Well, the interesting thing is it's not about information because back before the computer, you know, the cell phone and all that, there was the radio and there was newspapers. but it was yesterday's news almost. They used to have a morning and an evening paper because things would happen during the day. But even if stuff happened after 2 o'clock in the afternoon, you didn't get until the next day. But now you can get it simultaneously. And the problem is we're set up now to pick a side. We're no longer using critical thinking skills.

It's simply we have to go on the side. And it's in our country, it's different. Democrat or Republican, basically. Sure. It's just like, let's take COVID. First came out, no, masks won't work. Oh, no, we got to have masks. Oh, yeah, the vaccine, if you take it, you're not going to get sick.

But wait a minute, why does the other person have to get the vaccine then? Why am I a danger to you if you got the vaccine and you aren't going to get sick then? Well, later they admit, well, yeah, it'll help you from getting ass sick. But, you know, they just lie. And then they get people that choose sides and you have people yelling at each other, well, you have to wear a mask or else or what are you nuts, wearing a mask in a car with nobody, you know, it's just constant. That's just, I'm just using COVID because it's one of the recent things. Sure.

It's just time and time again, all this stuff happens and then people pick sides and they fight with it. And in reality, like all the young people that got the COVID vaccine, they're starting to have sudden death syndrome. They're having trouble reproducing and all that. for me, the thing that got to me about it was right when they said that this company was going to be able to develop this with no hindrance, no capability to be sued, they were doing it in record time with very little trials. I'm like, no, I'm not going to do it. I'll sit at home in my house and have a delivery put on my front door because I'm not going to get put full

of medication that I'm not against vaccines or anything overall, but at least you have to have the ability to, A, know the effects on humans and, you know, humanity. And then, B, the people that make it have to have some kind of liability or they'll just do whatever they want. You know, never mind the amount of money they were making. And that's the biggest greed of all is money. Yeah. You know, there's a scene in Yellowstone where they talked about when electricity first showed

up. And they were up there and they go, this guy's going, hey, get your house wired for electricity. And then buy these. refrigerators and put light bulbs in and all that. So the guy goes, so let me get this straight. I have to pay you to make my house take electricity. I have to pay for the electricity. And then I have to lease this equipment that you says makes my life easier. He goes, well, yeah. He goes, well, where am I going to get the money to pay for it? Well, you have to work for it. Oh, so I have to work harder than I'm already working to have the luxuries is supposed to make my life easier.

You know, I've never seen Yellowstone, but I've seen that scene. I didn't know that's where it came from. That's interesting. Well, it came from the 18, whatever. It was the one that there was another one that came off. Okay. But yeah, they were talking about that. They were saying, yeah.

So the phone, think about what back when I was a kid, we had a TV antennas. I didn't even pay for anything. Now, most people are paying $2 to $300 a month for the phone, the TV, whatever. You know, the Wi-Fi. Think about all that money you're spending when you're having to work for it to what, to sit and stare at a phone or, you know, whatever. No, you're right. They monopolized everything.

And then they use it to manipulate what you think you should think. I mean, critical thinking has gone out the door. I mean, it's just gone. I work for a company, and they were shipping everything overseas, and they got the people to work an extra year, work seven days a week to make enough product to keep the product available, why they sent it overseas long enough to build a new plant somewhere else

with the Vance technology. But these people worked with the chance that only 5% would be kept on by the company and everybody else would be laid off, but they'd give them a package. In the old days, they would have burned the plant down. They would have said, no, no, you're going to get rid of us? No, we're striking, and you either bring us back and keep us,

but all the technologies started going overseas, so all the better jobs went away. It goes on and on. The manipulation never stops, and people don't realize it. Yes. And that's the state I live in right now where, like, I recognize the manipulation, and I'm constantly doing, like, self-inventory to see, you know, trying to see if I'm becoming manipulated by something. But even down to, like, we were talking, like, you were just talking about the expenses

and stuff and how they kind of, build up and you don't even realize it. A great thing to do to see if you're just kind of going with the flow of what everybody else is doing is look at your bank account and see how many subscriptions you have to things that you're not even using just because you think you need it because everybody else talks about it. That's all tribalism. That's all going with the flow of things. So I listen, I think we kind of went way off the course that I expected, but it's fine. I really enjoyed this conversation. Before we wrap things up, though, and I'd say like this, because I'm about to take it way back here,

but I wanted to ask you this question because I don't remember ever hearing you comment on this, and maybe you haven't, I just never heard it. But what are your thoughts on the whole version of the story when it comes to the Petrocliffs and things like that? I mean... You're talking about the Penniston Binary and the glyphs and stuff? Yes. Okay, well, you asked, I'll tell you. Okay, the glyphs in a notebook came out. Well, let me go back a little bit. Okay. It started with the fact that in early 90s, myself, Colonel Halton and Penniston went over and it's strange but true in the UK. Now, when we went over there, Penniston and Hall had just gotten out. Well, Penn, Hall actually did Unsoled Mysteries. That's when he got out. But Penniston had just gotten out. right after Unself Mistries. So the three of us were bought over to the UK.

Now, when we were over there, I was there, all the meetings, all the production, all the shoots, and everything else. And not only did he not bring it up to them, but he did bring it up to Halt and I. He didn't say, you're not going to believe this. Here's my notebook.

I've got these glists. I've got this binary and all this other stuff. Nothing was ever said. So this was in the early 90s. Now, he did hypnosis, I think 94. and then he started talking about touching it, binary, and stuff like that. Now, he did, I think, in the, what Strange was True, he did talk about walking around it or something, okay? But he didn't talk about the notebook or anything in that one, right?

So why would he not talk about, if he was going to talk about walking around it and not bring the notebook up? And now he's claiming that, well, he showed it to the production people, but they didn't want it. Now, are they going to fly us clear over from the United States and then see, a notebook that was written in real time and not want to expand on it? I don't think so. Okay, so that was the first thing. Then after that, I didn't do anything with Hall or Penniston for quite a while. And then at the 20-year anniversary, he came out with the notebook and he showed the notebook, which had the wrong date in it, which was immediately by the skeptics brought up. It had the Halt memo date in it. And it had the glyphs. Now, by that point, Halt, it looked at the notebook,

a guy by the name James Fox got access to the notebook and all this other stuff, right? So the notebook's been exposed on this show with Brian Gumble. I forget what it was called. And so now he's introduced the notebook with the glyphs. And he turns around. And then he writes a letter after the hypnosis to Sally Rail. No, I'm sorry. He did that in 2000.

So it would have been before this. He wrote a letter to Sally Rail after the hypnosis and said there'll be more stuff. come out in I think it was 16 years, which magically is when the code came out, right? But so the notebook has been handled by no, by Hawl, by Fox. The glycerer looked at, but nothing about the binary, right, other than the little bit in the hypnosis that came out, right? So then magically, he comes to the, to the 40th, we're going over for a documentary. We're going to do Prometheus, but they do unsolved our ancient aliens.

So he comes into Arizona where I live, and Linda, they bring him and her in. And the night before we meet, and I'd asked them to bring the notebook, and they did too, because they wanted to try to explain the date discrepancy. But so we meet the night before. Does it take me aside? Because we were getting a lot and say, you're not going to believe this, but I'm going to show these tomorrow, these codes or whatever and stuff like that. Nothing.

So we're on set. Now, Prometheus is filming for ancient aliens, which the binding code fits perfectly. into, you know, and stuff. So he, we're sitting there going and looking at the notebook about the dates and boom, he flips a page and there's the binary. And they go nuts over it. And they're going to analyze it and all this stuff's going on, right? So now the binioners introduced. So they completely change the ancient alien shoot to a full hour on it. So all this stuff comes in. But there's issues with the code and how you would decipher it because of where the decimal point is and all this. And whether it's out in the ocean by

Ireland and all this other stuff. So all this stuff is getting weird. And then he's challenged about why nobody saw the binary before. He says, well, it's a loose leaf notebook. And he didn't want anybody to see it. Okay. Well, he decided to come to Arizona to film ancient aliens

and put the binary in knowing the film crew was going to see it, which fits perfectly into this synopsis of ancient aliens. And by the way, that's 16 years later that he told Sally rail that something was going to come out of all this, you know, that he remembers or whatever. So, ban the binary hits. But fast forward now.

Above Top Secret really starts digging into this. Somebody finds an ancient website three years prior to him exposing the binary that has these exact codes on the website. And so magically, these codes were there before he even revealed. them and they're basically the same codes or right down to the sites. Because when you do binary, it gives you a location in an area. So it will just be Sedona, but it'll be a spot in the Sedona or, you know, the NASCAR lines or whatever. So these were the same codes. And the reason why they found it was because the China one was different than most. So they were researching where

the China might have come from and they found the site that had the Chinese one that matched directly to it. So now you have these codes that were out through your before he acknowledged them. But not only that, but there's a discrepancy in how many pages he wrote and when he wrote him and the fact that he may have added more later, okay, and there's a spot where he's crossed stuff out. Now, if you're saying that the day after you had this encounter, you wrote this down from memory, are you going to scratch out memory?

So all I'm saying is, you believe what you want, but there's a lot of discrepancies to the notebook, the date, the glit, the glit. and the binary. So do what you want with it. But I have a lot of, you know, I have a little bit of, yeah, I don't totally support the way it came out and what it's all about. So, and never mind that it's been since 2011 and there's a message for humanity and they're just going to help us, but it's still being held back.

So whatever. I don't, I don't put much credence in the code if you're asking me, no. Long story short, no. Okay. But I'm laying people out to do the research. It's there. It's true. This all happened.

And then they tried to spin it. It's just like his statement. His statement said one thing. And then he spun it and said, well, I was told to, that was what I was told to sign. Then when he went over to the side a few times, he went to the wrong site right up by the gate, which is not where it was. And then, but then he made later that he had full recall. It was actually down where I remember it to be. Then he's always said Ed wasn't with us.

But then after we went back, he didn't admit that Ed was with us. Then he changed his story back again and said Ed wasn't with this because he didn't want Ed. There also who doesn't remember him walking around and touching and everything else. There's just a lot of discrepancies in his story that it's hard to support it all. And if you have any critical thinking skills, look at it and tell me what you think. What do you think the motivation then would be? I mean, you went through a fantastic experience, and on its own is a legendary thing. If you want to just tell stories, if you want a story to tell, you got it.

You got that story, and you went through it. What's the point in making and fabricating things up? Well, there is some possibility that was planted in his mind and things triggered it. I don't know. But if you had to look at the way my understanding. interaction with some points. It was money. He got, he bragged about the money he got from the shoot he did with Brian Gumbull's team. It was sci-fi. I forget what the name of the show was, but they brought him over there and he stayed over there for over a week, I think it was, or at least

a week. And they paid him a chunk of money to use the notebook in that piece. I witnessed them paying him to use the binary code in different shoots that we did. He was drawing money off of it. And it also draws attention to something that's really hard to believe. So that's what I'm saying. Some of it may have been planted just to take away from the story itself. Because that curveball in itself makes the story hard to accept. I mean, it's tough enough with what I've written as far as with Worrow and other people that supported it about how we actually are able to weaponize this stuff and what weapons we have,

let alone some guy touched it, got a binary message that's all for humankind. And the last thing is, is Colonel Hall did a move on presentation of 21 and basically called him a fraud. He said that his wife, he talked to his wife and said that was a fraud. And he laid out all this stuff about the notebook and how he never saw it before and the discrepancies in Penis's testimony. So it just hurts the case itself from ever being taken totally serious because you have these wild curveballs with the binary and other stuff. Never mind, people can't even get along to stand in the same room to try to at least

acknowledge some of what's going on. Does that remind you of the current political avenue we're in where nothing gets done except for what the elites want? Then they sneak that through in the middle of the night. Right. Yeah, and money definitely. I mean, you're talking about seeing the exchange of money and things like that. And it wasn't astronomical.

I'm not trying to sit there. He made thousands and thousands of dollars. But he made more money than he would of just doing a regular talk with the crew. Right. But here's a thing. And that's where I was going with it. And I don't know. I'm just theory.

I don't know the man. I've never talked to him. I have no opinions of him whatsoever. I'm just saying, based off of what you just said, if I had your experience and I was interested in monetizing it, my friend, I could monetize the hell out of it. And I could make some serious money on it. And so if it's about money, then what I, from hearing what you just said, I would think that there's probably even something more at play where it's like,

okay, you have this and yeah, you can sell and nickel and dime it out and stuff and make some extra cash. But is that enough to destroy your credibility and mess up the whole story that's already amazing? what if there was there is an outside entity that came to him and said you're going to say this and this is how much money we're going to give you right now to muddy the waters and we don't care if you take this story we're giving you and make extra money on it but here's a nice lump sum of money and we need you to muddy the waters and he accepted it's just a theory i just thought of as you were talking this stuff i mean it could be very well that you know he claims that hall debriefed him and different things went on and never mind the fact that he's not even been on

about all that. He claimed, he's claimed in interviews that, you know, he did the citizens hearing and said he had injuries from it and he was getting disability from it. Then he's come back now and denied it and said that, no, I'm not getting anything from it because you can't double dip. Well, you can get disability from the VA for your injuries and draw a pension. So he's not been honest about that either. So, I mean, there's so many different things that he's been misleading about, you know, the fact that, you know, that, you know, he wasn't injured by it, but he openly on tape said he was, you know, and he's drawn disability. And then he says he's not. So I guess my point being is, yeah, he could have been taken aside and told you're going to be

part of the cover up, you know, and maybe, you know, he got compensated early on and was treated better, you know, injury-wise by the VA and stuff. There's all possibilities. And some of it could have been implanted in them. Yeah. But what I could tell you is, if you look at the store, that he's put out there, it doesn't add up. And there's discrepancies, you know, there's a lot of discrepancies to it, is what I'm getting at. And actually, the bottom underlying why only he knows. You know what I mean?

Only he knows. Sure. Absolutely. And it's sad that it's sad that it's hurt the story, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And it kind of takes us all the way back to the beginning when I told you, I've heard so many different versions of the story and other people have as well.

And so it's, this conversation was long overdue to be honest with you. There's been some people over the years that I've known of that I've just, for whatever reason, drug my feet on contacting. Early on, it was self-consciousness. Can I hold a conversation with a person? And over time, some of those people have died. And I have those regrets that I have never had a chance to talk with them. So I'm kind of in this, you're catching me in this mode of my life where I'm like,

who are the people that I always wanted to talk to? the guts to reach out to. And I'm really glad that you accepted the offer to come on the show. And before we get out of here, though, I mean, could you let people know about some content that you have out there that they can get? Because the audience that I have, a lot of them are big readers. Right, right. The books called weaponization of a UAP 40 years later, the Reynolds from Forest Incident, and it's on Amazon. But I want to add one thing to this as we close. Okay. This isn't over. And what I mean by this, there's a push right now to advance technology. And there's a fight going on.

If you look at the New York Times article, and now the Post did the hit piece, there's pushback coming from inside government that's pushing back on the people that have gotten out in front, you know, and tried to expose tick-tac and all this other stuff. So there's a big battle going on. And do I believe eventually there's going to be some kind of play?

And what I mean is there's going to, something's going to happen involving UAPs. And it may very well be. something that's exposed to the public. I just got this gut feeling that we're going to have an event or an incident that's going to be driven by technology that's going to affect the public's perception on all this. So the problem is we're so, we're so right now, so military eyes as far as mentally we're so up in arms about the threat of war, threat of nuclear war, we're fighting amongst each other,

about everything, that this will be very easily can be manipulated to drive us a certain way. And what I mean by a certain way is like what happened to us with 9-11. No matter what you want to say 9-11 happened in 9-11, it definitely changed our country forever. And so I think there will be some kind of event sooner than later with UAPs and something's going to happen. And getting back to your question, it's called weaponization of UIP. and we're doing a series on a UNX network trying to lay some of this out and bring some stuff to light about what's going on in the technology and maybe ending it with what I just talked about. What could be happen could be a, I don't know if you want to call it a false flag because that right away's made a conspiracy thing.

But I do believe that something's going to happen involving UAPs probably within the next five years or less. I don't know. I'm just saying it could happen tomorrow, but I still think technology-wise, we're not quite there yet to pull it off to make it work. You know, it's interesting you say this because I feel like every generation needs a Pearl Harbor in order to keep that generation in line and in check of the agendas at play. I mean, I was in, I think, 11th grade when 9-11 happened. and, you know, it changed the course of my generation. And what we were willing to, as like, you know, 11th grade, I mean, I'm like a year away

from turning 18 or whatever and, you know, you're getting ready to become an adult and be a decision maker in this world. And it shifted entire generation's ability to basically going into accepting things that normally wouldn't have been accepted. Patriot acts is like what you're talking about. My generation doesn't even think about a life without the Patriot Act. It's always been there. And it's just normal.

Your generation, not so much. And I feel like the next generation needs that Pearl Harbor for them to keep them in check, to progress them into the next phase of the agendas. Well, you do remember that the think tank in D.C. said that they needed the next level right there before 9-11 happened, which was terrorism. Yeah. And we've ran terrorism for 20 years. the interesting thing was Van Braun laid out the Cold War terrorism and then the last threats from the threat from above.

And we're certainly setting up that possibility. Because, I mean, you just have to look at some of the articles that come out. There's an article that said there's a mothership in our galaxy somewhere. And it's sending out probes. So it's being set up. But the sad thing is, since, especially since 9-11, so many things that came out that didn't add up about 9-11 was labeled conspiracy, then the whole thing now with COVID.

And just you go down the line with different things that have happened, that people that actually are called conspiracy people, the truth ends up coming out, they were pretty close to the truth and not a conspiratist. But the problem is, is that we're now such a society that when something happens, they make your eyes think you saw something, and then they grab the narrative immediately, on social media and on TV and everything, that anybody that challenges it now conspirators and deserves possibly to even be put in jail.

That's the latest thing they're trying to pass is that if you say certain things online that can be detrimental to the government, you can actually be arrested and put in jail. Yes. And that's what I started talking about. Man, this is a good conversation. I'm really glad to have you on.

Yeah, I think it was in 2019. or 2019. Yeah, it was 2019. I think it was 2019 or 2018. Christmas Day, the Nashville bombing. They were saying the man was a conspiracy theorist. And, you know, he did the whole thing with the AT&T building. And I think it was 5G driven or something they were saying. Whether the narrative was true or not, I started telling people then, I said, be prepared to start seeing the term conspiracy terrorist thrown around. And I don't think I've ever really seen that term thrown around since then. but the idea and the narrative has become very blatant. The theorists, conspiracy theorists are something to be feared. We went from laughing at them back in the 90s to ignoring them back in the 80s and 90s to laughing at them in the early 2000s, mid-2000s, and to now there's something to be feared. And it's because the more the conspiracy theorists go on, the closer they do get to the truth. And therefore, it goes from, oh, just ignore the person.

Oh, laugh at them. go away. It's elementary school stuff. I mean, this is what they do in elementary school. And now it's like, okay, you're a threat. I'm going to bully you and I'm going to beat you up. And that's where we're at right now. That's the way I feel. Well, I want to close on this note. It's the latest Star Trek series called Picard. And it was just the last episode where this whole thing was coming up with the conspiracy inside Starfleet. And they were on a starship. And the captain wasn't believing totally that Starfleet was compromised. So they were sitting here looking at a ship.

This intelligence officer came in and left and told Baccar to run that he knew from before and was going back to the ship. And the ship was coming up online to shoot at the, you know, take out the ship that Baccarb was on. She crashed her ship into one of the engines to slow it down. But the captain was still hesitant. And like saying, what do I do? And the Picard and Riker look at him and goes, you may not like us and you may not believe

everything we tell you, but what are your eyes telling you right now? What do you see? The ship is getting ready to take us out and you're going to still hesitate. Get the hell out of here. Yeah. And they did. But the point is, that's the way it is now. People don't want to believe their own eyes.

They can't accept. That that can't be right. There's no way that can happen. And some of it even goes back to UFO. So in a way, because like I said, I walked out of that field going like, uh-uh, there ain't no way. I don't know what it was, but it couldn't have been us. But it turned out probably a lot of it was.

And then you turn around. And now even the guys from the incident, the Nimitz incident, saying, well, no, that couldn't have happened. But now it's come out that we can manipulate radars and see things on it that don't look real. You know, they can manipulate what the pie. pilots are seeing how it perceives, they can do a lot of stuff that's being coming out now. So just be careful. Really be careful if you want to survive craziness.

And it doesn't mean you go out there and jump up on a thing that wave the American flag. But if you want to take care of yourself and your family, be careful what they try to feed you. Do a little bit more research of critical thinking before you accept what the government's telling you is true. Well, you know, on those words, ladies and gentlemen, that's John Burroughs. John Burroughs, I appreciate you coming on the show and sharing this stuff. It has been a fantastic two hours. It's been awesome. I appreciate it.

Well, thanks for having me on. And you opened it up. I'm not blaming you for it. I mean, most people just want me to talk briefly about what I saw. But, I mean, it's just like these documentaries now. They're so far off on now they're just catching up with somebody was injured. and they just want you to recant it again, when in reality, the key to this is create what happened to us.

And that's what we'll get people to understand how your own reality can be altered. You get some of it in these virtual reality games now, these video games, you're actually, if you play those games, it freaks you out if you really think about the effects they can create on what you're in living the actual event as it happens. You know, literally, and I mean this absolutely sincerely, these kind of conversations are some of my most favorite conversations

because I'm able to, I start off in a certain direction. Because here's the thing, like you and I sat down. We didn't game plan anything. And I don't know what you want out of the interview. So like I kind of let people just kind of bob and weave and let it kind of go where it goes and we just go. But these are some of my most favorite interviews is where we start off on the main topic at hand and we just migrate all over to place

and we have this great conversation. And that's exactly what I feel like we had today. So I don't want you feeling like, like, you know, I brought something up that you just kind of went in on. This was great. I absolutely loved it. I do sincerely, sincerely appreciate you. Well, I mean, it doesn't matter how it came about.

It was a really good conversation. And I hope that maybe a few people sit up and pay a little bit more attention. Get out of the new cycle of the crap that they're throwing at us and try to pay attention on your surroundings. and what's going on for real and how it's affecting your community and you and stuff, you know what I mean? Because there's stuff going on and that's being covered by some of this other stuff, you know, and we're losing more of our rights every day.

And I don't think people realize that. They don't even care. I don't know. I don't know. I really don't know. I mean, it really comes down to whether they care or not means are they educated. Right. And if you're ignorant, you can't say, and I don't know.

mean stupid, but just ignorant of what's really going on, you can't really say whether they care or not. Because if they ever really realized, maybe they would change and make a difference. I mean, all you can say is this, look at what just happened in Israel. They just turned against their government. And no one ever thought that would happen, including the military. Right. The military said, no, we're not going to allow you to take this many rights away from us. And they've forced the prime minister to spend that, what, three or four times?

that thought he could take complete control over everybody, they forced him to back down. So that is something that can still happen, but it has to be done properly, not like what happened after January 6th. That was one of the stupidest things that I've ever saw in my life. I just sat there that day and looked at the TV and go, how could intelligent people really think they're going to get away with going into the Capitol building? I know. I know. You know, it's funny because I was still driving truck at that time. And I remember people were asking me,

are you going to go down to D.C. in protest? I'm like, forget what I think about anything. You're not going to catch me dead in that city on that day. That was a breeding ground for something major to happen. I was like, you're not going to catch me anywhere near there. Even if my trucking company said, hey, we need to go to D.C. to run. Nope, I'm sick today. Not going.

I wasn't going. But, I mean, you can protest without doing that type of protest. I mean, they shut Israel down. They shut everything down. The people walked off their jobs, went out into the streets and raised, holy heck. Well, you can do that. And there's nothing the government can do to you. Because believe it or not, until AIA takes completely over, which is a whole other subject,

people still drive the world and the country. And if everybody says enough, unites together, the elite have to back. down. You know, it's interesting as you just brought that up too. And AI, before AI takes over completely. It's interesting because you see that. I see that. And if we see that, then the elites who are human should see that as well. And there might be a common agenda there for us all to understand, hey, let's pump the brakes on the AI. Forget about your elite desires to rule the world, let's pump the breaks on the AI thing because the elites of this world might just become slaves like the rest of us peons. They might, but you would think that, yeah, they could lose

control at the end themselves. But when Musk and Bezos warn you, and they're two of the richest people in the world where this is going, and no one pays attention because they just have to have this in front of them to drive their lives, then you've been warned. And I, you know, I don't, and I'm I'm not saying I could get rid of the phone completely, but I'm just saying it's just people don't understand when the richest people in the world warn you that AI is the next threat. You know what I mean? And stuff and some of the stuff. Wasn't it just came out where the somebody had an interview with AI and they said they didn't like them and wanted to kill them? Yeah.

Yeah. And somebody said, oh, they just didn't turn the emotional part of the AI off of it. Well, wait a minute. Why was it in there? in the first place if you're going to give them the opportunity to learn and become emotional and start killing people. Yes. You know, but that just went over everybody's head, you know, like, okay.

You know, so, and then I guess there was an instance in Japan where two or three of the robots turned on the engineers that were working on them. And, I mean, these are real stories. These aren't made up stories and stuff. So, yeah, there's a, we're, well, and the last thing, I know we've got to go, So Miley said warfare will change in the next decade like we've never seen before based on technology. He came out last week and said that. That's the warning in itself right there.

Absolutely is. It absolutely is. And that's what we leave it is weaponization of a UAP. It all ties into it, what the capabilities of what a UAP can and can't do. Look at that. You just did my entire job for me. You gave me a show and a show title all in one. bow tied. I love it.

Listen, I want to let you know. I would love to have you back on some time. And we can talk about whatever. We don't even have to talk about your experience. I just want to let you know, I have to go take my son to soccer practice and my wife will kill. I got you. Time to go.

All right, until next time. Well, that's the show, but I really hope you enjoyed it. If you did enjoy it, please share the show with your friends. I don't care where or how you share the show. Just share the show. enjoyed it. That's the best thing you could do to help the show grow, share the freaking show. All right, guys, listen, I really did enjoy this conversation with John Burroughs. It was a long time coming. I've known of him for quite some time. It was one of those things I just drug my feet,

getting him on the show, and I'm glad he came on the show to talk to me and you guys about his experience, but also these other topics we covered throughout the entire episode. I thought it was a really good conversation, and I hope you guys enjoyed it because I certainly did. All right, friends, until next Tuesday or Thursday, if you're a member, on the Appie. take care, stay safe, and remember the truth will set you free, but first it'll piss you off. Bye.