The Confessionals - RELOADED | 570: The Realm Of The Fallen

Episode Date: September 22, 2025

In Episode 570, "The Realm Of The Fallen," we are joined by Ryan Burns of the HERO Paranormal podcast. He had a dramatic encounter with a skinwalker in the vicinity of Skinwalker Ranch, an experience that fueled his curiosity to explore further. Ryan managed to purchase a property adjacent to Skinwalker Ranch, naming it "Space Wolf Research," as he embarked on plans to utilize this property for his own research endeavors, delving into the myriad of strange occurrences that inhabit the Uinta Basin.Ryan had previously appeared on Episode 202: Skinwalker Ranch, where our conversation continued even after recording about the possibility of me visiting his research property. Last July, the Merkel Media documentary team embarked on a week-long camping expedition on the property, seeking to unveil the mysteries shrouded within the ancient grounds. During our time there, we encountered numerous experiences, prompting Ryan to join us today to discuss these occurrences and shed light on the latest developments on the property since the departure of the Merkel Media team.Please pray for Tony's wife, Lindsay, as she battles breast cancer. Your prayers make a difference!If you’re able, consider helping the Merkel family with medical expenses by donating to Lindsay’s GoFundMe: https://gofund.me/b8f76890Become a member for ad-free listening, extra shows, and exclusive access to our social media app: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinThe Confessionals Social Network App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZTony's Recommended Reads: slingshotlibrary.comMy New YouTube ChannelMerkel IRL: @merkelIRLMy First Sermon: Unseen BattlesSasquatch and The Missing Man: merkelfilms.comMerkel Media Apparel: merkmerch.comSPONSORSSIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsGHOSTBED: GhostBed.com/tonyCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] BurnsPodcast: heroparanormal.comSWR: spacewolfresearch.comMAILING ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/theconfessionals/Discord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelProduced by: @jack_theproducerOUTRO MUSICJoel Thomas - ShutUp N DriveYouTube | Apple Music | Spotify

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Empecia to start your period of month in Shopify. coms bar records. Merkel Media I guess it's time to go back in time

Are you telling me you built a time machine? Kind of a Dolion? Time is but a stubborn illusion. I have a lot of memories of the past. People are time traveling within themselves. Time travel is possible. This was all circulating. around the base that a giant had to kill but no one was supposed to talk about it.

Long, bony fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And this giant comes out of the cave and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing at this giant. Well, the giant moves. He's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast. And spears, Dan, holds them up like this. Somebody else. Shoot them in the face. Shoot them in the face.

They basically decapitated. Something pulling at my leg. And I look over and there are two small gray and the teeth. And they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed. I reached my hand into this bush and I touch air. Couldn't breathe and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. Okay. I reloaded. Yep.

Welcome to the show, everybody. You're listening to The Confessionals Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here. If you've a crazy wild experience, you want to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is Contact at theconfessionalspodcast.com. That's Contact at the Confessionalspodcast.com.

Or go to the website, theconfessionalspodcast.com. Hit the contact section, and you can reach me that way as well. Either way works for me, just get a hold of me. If you want to become a member, you get access to bonus shows every Thursday. We come out with a member episode exclusively for members on the website. site and on the Confessionals app for members. We have an app just for members. And you also get the Tuesday shows ad free listening and access to overtime episodes when they're available. So if that interests you, that extra content from the Confessionals, go ahead, check it out. Theconfessionalspodcast.com

slash join. Become a member and you'll get the hookup. All right, friends, listen, we have a fantastic conversation coming up here today and it circles around the upcoming film, The Shape of Shadows, that we're releasing on August 19, 2003. Today, we have Ryan Burns on the show, and he is the owner of the property that we went to to shoot this film right on Space Wolf Research Property. Ryan, sir, how are you? I'm doing great.

Great to be here, Tony. Thank you. Man, I'm glad you're here. Listen, just so that we can kind of get this conversation going, I want to let people know the little bit of a history where you were on episode. I believe it was 202. And the way this whole thing came about was I was driving my tractor trailer,

probably somewhere in Philadelphia, and I'm looking for good content to listen to on YouTube. And I'm surfing, and I see this title. It was something about Dogman or Werewolves, and I was like, oh, that sounds interesting. Let me click on it. And it so happened to be when you were in studio with Sam Tripley from the Tinfoil Hot podcast.

And that was my introduction to you. And I was listening to the conversation. And that's how I got connected to Sam. I never knew Sam before that. And during that conversation, he was like, man, I love this paranormal stuff. I got to do more paranormal conversation. I was like, I'm your guy.

And so I reached out to him and we started talking. But I heard you on there talking about this property and all this stuff. And I was like, I got to talk to this guy. And so I reached out to you. You came on the show and we talked about Space Wolf. And on that interview, I remember. asking you if you would let me or if you bring people out to the property and you're in on the interviewer like no we don't bring anybody on the property and then uh after we were done recording you're

like bro yeah totally you can come out i was like i was like perfect and so that was you know hundreds of episodes ago and uh it took a while to get there but i always kept in the back of my mind and when we started doing these films it was just like a no-brainer it was the the topic of conversation that's circulating around the paranormal world. A lot of people talk about, you know, Skin Walker Ranch, and that's out in Utah, and you have a property that literally butts up against Skin Walker Ranch. And it was just a perfect place to go and do a film investigative series because it was such a high activity area, and you gave me the blessing to come on the property. So that's kind of the history there. And you have told me there's been a lot of

stuff that's happened and developed since we were out there, which is like, it's kind of hard to believe because we were just out there last year. And so much has changed. You were telling that we'll get into it today and stuff. But I want to kind of backtrack a little bit here with you to the very beginning of our conversation today, which I think is a good way to kind of open up the show and stuff because it kind of hits on a personal note. You and I are both Christians, and you started talking to me about how the phrase you said to me is, the more you walk through hell, the more you appreciate heaven. I think that's how you said it. And I would like for you to maybe expound in that a little bit, because the more you've researched these,

these hellish situations, it seems like the closer you've gotten to in your faith. 100%. It really makes you appreciate, you know, having a higher power. And I only say that because I've gone out with people that are like, you know, why would you do this? Why would you, you know, put yourself in this area that has, for lack of a better word, evil magic taking place, you know, skinwalkers and dark adepts and witchcraft and strange phenomenon. that has, you know, got the Pentagon super scared and worried. And the reality is, I believe that it has actually strengthened my faith because that paranormal tap on the shoulder, so to speak, reminds me not only that, you know, we are involved in a very real spiritual experience,

just being alive as human beings, but it makes me cherish. the fact that we have, you know, for lack of a better word, this divine characteristic within us, which is a connection to a higher power. And that strengthens, you know, as crazy as it sounds, the darker and deeper I go down this rabbit hole into the occult, it's super unnerving. But the more I feel like my foundational spirituality is strengthened. That's really, it's interesting, it's cool. For me, it's encouraging to hear. I'm kind of in a similar boat. I've been doing this for seven years, podcasting and talking to all different types of people. I've said this before and I'll say it again. There have been Satanists on this show. There have been witches on this show that the audience to this day have no idea where Satanus and witches because it just didn't come up in conversation. We've talked off air. We've hashed out things and I've shared my point of view with them. and, you know, all that stuff. But the way I operate with the show is I'm not here to debate people.

We're not about that. We're experiential. We share people's experiences and we have good conversation. And there's a whole aspect of that that I could get into and kind of talk about how all that works as far as me and my faith. But it's really cool to hear you kind of mirror that because I've found the same the same. It's just the more I do this, the more I realize the supernatural is real. The more I realize that this world is really bizarre, strange, and unfathomable at times. And that pushes me closer

and more into my faith, because if, without me getting pushed more into my faith, I think it would have destroyed me by now. I really do. We're sitting here and we're looking into the abyss. We're staring into the darkness, into the shadows of a room that we're told not to go into. And our curiosity can't hold us back. We're just like, we have to do this. But the more we look into it, and I don't think it's like this for everybody. In fact, I know it's not because there have been people on the show that looked into the abyss and the abyss grabbed them and sucked them in. But that's a whole other story. But for me and apparently for you, It kind of, you realize the severity of the situation.

You're like, okay, time to shape up here and get a little closer to my maker. So it's really cool, man. So with that, we went out to your property and we had experiences out there. And we can kind of talk about that. But let's kind of maybe jump forward and then backtrack. I want to hear about some of the things. that you're discovering and some of the advancements you made on the property since we've been there. You said that a lot of things have developed. In fact, you've expanded the property, which is pretty

cool. Yeah, it's amazing. It's enthralling. There has been, like you said, a lot of expansion that's taken place. There are important things that have happened both on the property and some of the programs that the, and the individuals who have been studied. the phenomenon in the area for quite some time have come across some pretty new, wild, leaked information that I've gathered from both military personnel who have visited the area and brought something home to their families is where it all started. And it is basically stuff that's never really been revealed before, which is there is a very real, contagion of sorts that a CIA doctor leaks some files. And it is basically being called

Interface Syndrome, which is a very real medical condition. They're doing IDC 10 codes, which means that the government wants to be able to charge insurance companies for the damage, the physical damage that's being done to some of the experiencers in the area. And just to not bore you, with all the science of it. Basically, people who are encountering this high strangeness and interacting with the phenomenon are encountering two things. Very real, frightening disturbances in their brains.

Literally, their brains are being turned to swish cheese. However, as it's being investigated, they're also encountering kind of downloads or upgrades in IQ. So it's really strange how these things correlate. and not sure what the long-term effects of this will be. It has been kind of scary because people have brought this contagion, this interference syndrome home to their families, resulting in paranormal experiences thousands of miles away in some cases,

and things are terrorizing the families as well. So it's a very real thing. There is a huge data set over 18 patients in a very short time, and I have personal experiences that I can tell you about that it's very real. However, there's no way to justify it as near as we can tell. It is similar to like the whisper of the legend of the Skinwalker to begin with that the entire area, for lack of a better word, is an unbelievable curse. and that this curse, you know, like with most gifts and curses, you have two things going on. And so, you know, some of these really high-end military personnel, scientists, astrophysicists, aerospace engineers, are finding out when they do these brain scans by the government that, whoa, like, you have all this brain damage.

And it's not just you, it's the other people that have visited the area. yet they seem to almost have increases in their IQ, be more creative, have these downloads which allow them to interface not only with like a universal consciousness, but actually with electronics as well. So it's really weird. I don't know where to go from there. But there's that. And then there's the more typical traditional Skinwalker magic as well taking place.

So it's kind of like both worlds come to a crazy head. that's what I was just going to say. Is it possible that you're dealing with the same phenomenon, but two different faces of it? 100%. I think you just unveiled it with that comment. I think that's exactly what's going on. And we've heard a lot, you know, when you go through time and you study a lot of this darkness, I mean, a skin walker is a person who, it's a technology. I mean, it's a person who wearing an animal skin comes out at night and through a present spiritual ability has the power to literally take on the abilities of the former animal owner of that skin. I mean, if that's not technology, I don't know what is.

And then you have, you know, these things in the sky which act in ways that operate on a whole other level than our militaries. So I think that once you kind of read into it the way you did, 100%. I mean, the truth behind it is this syndrome is, in my opinion, just an eruption of the paranormal events of the area. That's incredible. And so people are, I mean, they're getting downloads. Their brains either turning to mush to mush or supercharged. And I wish my brain was supercharged after leaving there for sure. Maybe people would say after hearing the show, they're like, ah, it's actually gone the opposite. I'm sorry, Tony. It's mush now. But, you know, I'm still ticking.

But what's interesting is this interfacing with technology. Is this something that, like I think you said about 18 people, is this something that everybody is experiencing or just a handful? I mean, this sounds like real like neuralink type of stuff only without Elon's stamp of approval on it. Exactly. It is very much like that. It is, for lack of a better word, the same. syndrome, interference syndrome is what they're calling it, but it is the same capability that

previously was not understood, which is similar to, I'm sure you've heard of it, people who claim to be able to walk under street lamps and the street lamps will go out. And these other nuts and bolts electromagnetic connections that are impossible to describe. In fact, the CIA doctor, who is Dr. Christopher Kit Green, did research into a member of Israeli intelligence and the military there who was doing some projects. And they time and time again were collecting data on how this individual could interface with, like,

I mean, we're talking like major electronics on a military front. And they couldn't understand how he could be communicating And it's like you said, it's just once you're tapped into this universal consciousness, everything is just a thing. And you can engage, interact, and work with that thing. So manipulating things is sort of what consciousness is about. It's wild because the way you're talking about it, it's like it sounds like, you know, somebody caught a cold. And these are the side effects of catching it. And you caught it because you were around this particular. particular area and it was cold or whatever, you know. And is this something that they're finding

once people catch this interface syndrome that it eventually wears off? Or is it continuing to be a prevalent part of their life moving forward? It is literally like opening Pandora's box. and what they're finding is it defies explanation, but once you open it, you can't close it. They have a widespread range of abilities. Not all things they want, but they are able to master certain things that they didn't even have before.

So an increased six cents, so to speak, or intuition. Some of them have had, it's a psychic adventure, really. So basically increased psychic abilities are the only way they can explain them. And these are things that like, you know, pear laboratories, DARPA, the DOD, the Pentagon are very familiar with working with different institutes such as a Monroe Institute, Bigelow Institute for Conscious Studies, et cetera, et cetera. They have a really good record of accomplishment in understanding

these things. So when they come forward and say that this is what's taking place, you kind of have to agree with, you know, the invisible college of people like Jacques Valet, Hal Putoff, Colm Keller, Eric Davis, I mean, just the all-star crew saying, yeah, this is, this is happening. That's wild. Now, this is your property. You don't live out there. You have a caretaker. But when you do visit, Do you ever feel like you caught a little bit of this? Have you ever, like you mentioned about how, you know, there was personal experiences that you've had. Were any of those personal experiences related to this interface syndrome? So, yes, I was with another individual and we found ourselves investigating a cattle mutilation right there.

And it was winter. And we got close to it. we were recording and documenting everything. And it wasn't until I came back to my house that I realized something had happened. And in going back through the footage, I saw that the leg, which was closest to the dead animal, was going numb. For lack of a better word, I thought, you know, it wasn't that cold out there. I was bundled up.

It can't be frostbite. As the week went on after returning, it went from literally going numb. to just not being able to walk on that leg. And I went in and saw my orthopedic surgeon. And when he said, hey, this is a neurological injury, I freaked out. And I started making calls to some of the people I had mentioned before, some of the, you know, people way above my pay grade. But I made calls to everybody, to be honest, because I didn't know what I was dealing with, but I knew that I wasn't able to walk.

And that really scared me. And as this government investigation goes on, hidden truths have sort of come out of this report that's been leaked in these slides. And one of the hidden truths is that among the symptoms of interference syndrome is neuropathy. And literally, you know, just exactly what I experienced. But, you know, I was given some protocols to do and things to do and ways to work through it. And it all came back 100% because the bad news was it was neurological. The good news was it was neurological. You know, so it was super scary.

But it made, at least to me, it made me realize this is very real. And I'm not the only one. There's a ton of people that have suffered this. Yeah. And I will say I have a really bad memory, first off. So I don't remember. And I've seen my own film that's coming out. And it's really good.

The shape of shadows. com, by the way, if you want to get tickets. I don't know if I said that in the intro or not, but the tickets are available at the shape of shadows.com available now, premiering on August 19th at 8 p.m. Eastern Stereetime. Okay. So in the film, we had all these different experiences, but one thing that I don't remember if it made the film or not, I think it did, but we didn't really focus a whole lot on

it was my producer, Joseph. He arrived to the scene a day before we did. And so he's hitting us up. He's like, listen, we got a UFO on footage already. It was broad daylight. He was talking to people in the area, and he's telling us about giants and stuff, and I'm freaking losing my mind in, like, the middle of, like, Kansas somewhere. And one of the side effects, though, that he physically experienced while we were there

was he was already scheduled for a knee surgery, I believe in August last year, a knee replacement surgery. He had a constantly where a knee replacement surgery. he had to constantly wear a knee brace because he was in constant pain. He spent about 12 hours on your property and for the entire week. This was the first time I ever met Joseph in person. I didn't ever meet him before. By the time I got there, he didn't need to wear his knee brace. And he was telling me how, like, I don't need to wear my knee brace.

I don't know what's going on here. But ever since I've been here, my knee's been feeling great. the entire week, he did not need to wear a knee brace. And to put it in perspective, about a week, I think, after we left, his knee started hurting. He started wearing the knee brace, and he wound up getting the knee surgery last year. But while he was on the property, he was running around with us. He's the oldest out of all of us.

I'm not saying he's an old man, but he is in his 50s and he's the oldest out of the crew. And he was running around with us the whole week with no knee brace, no. sign of injury, not limping nothing. And the only thing we can figure out is that it had something to do with the property. And one of the guys that came on the property, James Keenan, while we were there, we met with him. People will see him in the film. He was talking about a lot of the magnetic nature of the land and the property, which I found very interesting.

And maybe that had something to do with helping his knee. I don't know. I'm not a doctor. but there is something very, very unusual to our understanding about that property. Space Wolf is very special. By the way, I was thinking about this as a morning. How'd you come up with the name of Space Wolf? Because I love it.

Yes. So there are large canines that are seen in the area, which typically, you know, frighten people. And oftentimes they don't act as normal canines would. And frequently, they are followed by a plethora of bizarre phenomena, such as UFOs and UAPs and orbs. And so it just kind of, it's kind of a simplified, you know, just a term. You know, the things that I was most intrigued by were, you know, this connection between cryptozoological things and things that are more aerial in nature.

And these things seem to be kind of transverse, like transversing some type of continuum, some timeline, because there's been a lot of cryptozoological variants, which actually existed, but not in our time. So people have seen things similar to the amphisylon, which is sort of, a bear dog, big, massive thing, the dire wolf, which obviously doesn't exist in our timeline. For lack of a better word, things they call the dino beaver, which is like a massive prehistoric beaver and other creatures that at one time, as you know, that whole area has like tons of dinosaur remnants in the ground so we can go back in the timeline and actually see what existed

there. And there was a lot of very strange animals that existed there. And somehow they have a way of making these intrusions into our timeline and then removing themselves, whether that is just some superficial chaos above, you know, the area itself, because the area has sort of an intrinsic energy like you were describing. And at times you can kind of feel the ground move a little bit and a plethora of other strange geological things that right there in that geographic area, what they call the dinosaur diamond, which is basically like sort of an 80-mile square radius of high strangeness. And it seems that these otherworldly things happen with more capability, more frequency,

and more often than other places. That's incredible. Yeah. I mean, there's this real tangible. Let me back up a little bit. because depending on who's listening to me talk, they're going to be like, tangible, okay. For me, from my own personal experience,

I believe that there's real nature of these creatures and interdimensionalism. There's an interdimensional aspect to this stuff. And maybe that ties into timeline variants. But the fact that these things, and shoot, we're talking about Skimwalker, and how Skimwalkers transform. And there's that aspect.

But even that is interdimensional to a certain extent. I think that we're just scratching the surface of understanding what is actually going on here. But it takes people who are willing to think outside the box and be like, I know this sounds weird, but just hear me out. And that's what it seems like a lot of the guys are doing. Did you, when you bought this property. about this on episode 202, how that all came together. You had an experience with the Skin Walker. You were abducted essentially. And the fascination ensued from there. You buy this property and for research purposes. And did you ever start feeling like you had an imposter

syndrome where, like for me, if I was in your shoes, I have an experience, I have this opportunity to buy this property that's right next to this ranch that everybody talks about. I buy it because I'm fascinated. And all of a sudden, things start happening. People want to research it. They're contacting me. I'm all of a sudden talking to people who I feel like are above my pay grade, like you mentioned.

Did you ever feel like you were a fish out of water or, oh, crap, what did I get myself into? Well, I'm in it now. Can I sell the property and get out of this? I'm freaking scared. I don't want people knocking on my door at midnight wearing black. Like, all that stuff. Did you ever feel like I'm way over my head here?

All the time, still, to this day, all those things you've mentioned constantly happened. Oh, my gosh. It started out so innocent, it seemed. You know, I'm 48 years old. I'm getting older. And even though I, you know, was in the area, full-time researching for a long time. And literally, I guess I can say it. I mean, I was trespassing on this, you know, this area where they were doing black budget projects like, you know, AASAP, which is the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Applications Program.

I mean, we're talking deep, dark, black budget projects and ATIP. All kinds of, you know, DOD, I had no idea. I just knew I was seeing cool stuff. And there was this ranch where appeared, there was hardly anybody there except for two security guards. I'm like, what are the chances? You know, I'm here every night. What are the chances are going to catch me? There's hundreds and hundreds of acres.

And I'm, you know, getting better at what I'm doing. So I was out there all the time. Every waking moment that I wasn't running this bed and breakfast, I was out there traipsing all over this super top secret area. And I had no idea. And so to answer your question in a nutshell, yes. It started out innocent enough where I, I was like, you know, I'm sick of running from these guys.

I'm sick of being chased. I'm sick of trespassing. I just, I'm getting older. I just want to buy something where I can like set up shop and I don't have to break any laws to do it. And it seems simple enough. And then it didn't. You know, once you engage and pull the trigger on something like that, you're there then. And once you're there, these weird things you're talking about happen.

You know, you get woken. up at four in the morning by, you know, people wearing all black on motorcycles and, or they're wearing night vision. And, you know, you go out and you ask them what they're doing. They say they're working. And you're like, what the heck is going on? So, yeah, it's resulted in a lot of high strangeness. And, you know, there's a lot of strange synchronicities and correlations that, again, bring me back to, you know, believing more in a higher power in the spirit. Intrinsic with the human experience because a lot of the things as I look back, it's like they just kind of fell into place as they were meant to be and This particular property sat vacant for quite some time and I remember it became sort of a safe haven for the

A lot of the hardcore researchers like hey, you know, this is a place we can go and you don't get chased and you don't get this and you don't get that and you're right there and it's because it was abandoned and And as synchronistically as it sounds, some researchers that I've since become close with, one of them is April Slaughter, she went with a variety of other researchers because it was just an abandoned ranch next to a very active area of government interest. and they have told me stories that I found out happened there, which I never knew before. I had heard of the tales, and some of the tales were some of the scariest experiences anybody's had in the area, and then come to find out it literally happened there,

which is just mind-blowing to me. And for example, if you have a chance, it's something you definitely should check out. The three people who had, the most wild experiences there went. For lack of a better word, the guys kind of did an animal blood ritual type thing to kind of supercharge.

You know, they had a weekend and they wanted to see stuff and they did this stuff. And what they encountered was absolutely out of this world. They encountered, you know, like a big black crab bit one of them, like a big, you know, that came over to the campfire and bit one of them. In Utah. Right there at Space Wolf, right where you guys were at.

Wow. A massive kind of amorphous entity, sort of like you would picture a gin, but they've got pictures and drawings of this. Rich Oliver is no longer with us. He was a big guy. He got lifted up by this entity that looked in his eyes, and he said it had like bugs or little nanotechnologies going in and out of it, and lifted him off the ground.

He was just a beast of a man. All of them claimed to have encountered, for lack of a better word, under hypnosis, nasal implants right there on the property. And the list goes on and on. If you ever have a chance to check out, there is a podcast. It's very hard to find, but it was with Matt Grohan, Rich Oliver, and April Slaughter. That is one, I believe, it might have been on the paracast. I don't know, but it goes definitely in the history books as some of the spookiest experiences ever in the UNA

Basin. And they just happened to happen right there at Space Wolf Research. And I only found this out recently. So it just freaks me out that, you know, these synchronicities and coincidences just kind of like, you're just like, oh, great, it happened here. No way. What? Wow.

Yeah. So I'm going to have to get in touch with them because those stories need to be heard. Wow. Yeah, I mean, when we went out there, we had some weird experiences on the property. And it just, I don't know if this is the right word, but I'm going to say it anyways, for lack of other words, it's a magical place. It just, when you get there, and maybe it's because you know the history of the area. It's been so documented. You feel like you're entering into a new realm. you feel like you're entering into the go zone. And you don't know what's going to happen, but you're like, something's going to happen. And things did happen for us, you know. And we were out there for an entire week. Those guys, they were out there for a weekend.

They had that stuff happen. But hey, when you're doing blood rituals, like, hey, let's see what happens. You know, like, okay, you know, knock on the door and somebody will answer. So it seems like that's what happened with them. I can't imagine the crab. Geez, like that caught me off guard. When you said that, I was like, a crab. Like, what?

You know, but again, we're talking about, you know, you do certain things, these rituals or whatever. We're talking about interdimensionalism. We're talking about other realms, parallel universes. And there are things that operate in these other realms that do know how to access our realm. It's not a two-way door for us, but for them it is. And so when you start knocking on the door, you don't know how to get through,

they'll just come over, they'll answer, they'll come through, say what's up, and they'll go back. And sometimes they take you with them. And people are like, oh, yeah, come on, no, I'm serious. And that's a future episode coming. So it gets wild and weird. But, man, so we were out there. and I've said this before, so I'll say it here. We uncovered some what seems to be some dark witchcraft black magic, however you want to say it. And you and I were talking about stuff before we started recording. You kind of mentioned a similar thing. What were you referring to when you mentioned about the dark magic and witchcraft you guys have been kind of uncovering?

much of the same things I believe you saw are still in operation. And I've encountered literally people who aren't supposed to be there. But it's really difficult to, you know, go up to a couple, to a Native American couple and tell them to leave, right? since this was all kind of their land originally. But I did encounter a couple that was, for lack of a better word, in an area they shouldn't have been under a tarp, and one of them was walking with a very large canine. And interestingly, what they were doing is uncertain,

but it did look as if it was witchcraft. And, you know, the interesting thing is I never saw the couple together. It was always one of them and a large canine. So it was either the woman and a large canine or the man and a large canine, but I never saw the two of them and the large canine. So it's some of these strange things that explicitly, you know, they were aware of my presence. I was aware of their presence. And that is what it is.

There was a certain amount of respect, I think, both ways. You know, and at the same time, there's other stuff taking place by other people practicing dark, adept ritual magic. So it's very bizarre. And I just want to touch really quick on what you said because during the day, you go out to this area and it just seems like any other area. But once night starts to fall, you can almost feel that precognitive, sentient intelligence rolling up its sleeves, right? You can kind of feel that added layer of reality or unreality kind of setting in. And so I think it's really cool that you say that because I find that very harrowing. When darkness starts to settle in, you do feel this like this, this extra layer of high strangeness.

Yeah. And that's, it's so true. I mean, I think it was our first night there. It had to be our first night there is when we found the ritual circle. and I was hanging cameras, and we found this thing. And it seems like that kicked off the night. Because Ward and I took pictures of it

and we came back to camp and we started showing the guys and this is all in the film. You see us showing the pictures. And then as we're sitting around the fire showing the pictures, the sky lights up. And I'm talking for a very long time. I want to say probably two, three hours. It was just constant UFOs in the sky like crazy.

And not to mention the week before we got out there, I think it was. I get the timeline wrong on this sometimes. So I'm not sure. And I might have misrepresented in the movie, to be honest with you. I'm not sure. But before we got there, I think it was the week before we got there, you at least called me to tell me that the trail. the container trailer on the property actually lifted and moved on the property.

And people will see how this all unfolded. And we called, we called big machinery companies to see if anybody rented anything, a crane or something in the area to be able to move this. And nobody had any record of any kind of machinery to be able to come on the property, let alone the way the property is set up. And people, to come on and do that, it would be very very much. very loud. It would be large. It would take time.

And your property manager would have seen it. They would have had to go right by his house. You know? And to get on the property, as a former truck driver, that thing's coming in on a trailer. And to get that trailer on the property would have been a pain in the butt because of the way

the fencing is right there. So the way I would have done it is I would have backed my trailer into the property so I can have an out easy. And so I would have been spending time on the road, getting my truck and trailer realigned several times just to get it to be able to swing into the property to back it down the driveway right by the house,

a big diesel motor. There's no way he would have missed that. And so the fact that this thing was lifted and moved and the way it was lifted and moved because it wasn't lifted very high because of the markings on the rocks. And so it was just enough to be able to lift this, was it 40 foot container and move it and then turn it sideways uh really phenomenal stuff

this this entire area is is just wild um you as the property owner uh i'm sure your perspectives have changed over the years especially since the last time you were on my show uh now like i mentioned the beginning the first time you were on the show you mentioned about how you know, you don't bring people on the property, things like that. Obviously, you let me come out there. And if there's somebody who's you feel is credible and honestly worthy to be on the property, you'll bring them out. But what has, is that something that changed over time for you? I mean, I imagine at first you would have been pretty protective of the property. how do you view this property now?

Because I know you want to be respectful of the native aspect. I mean, Johnny is a native and he was, you know, I think you referenced, gave him to us to have him show us around that week. So you want to be respectful. But at the same time, you're trying to uncover the secrets of this area. And it's just, and just to stress people, like, this property is, this property is a symptom of the area. It's not the property, just like the other property. It's not the property. It's the area.

And these properties are symptoms of that. And so has your perspective changed in the sense that you're more open to let more different types of research come on the property and try different things? Are you more protective, less protective? I probably, over time, probably would have gotten more protective, to be honest with you. That's exactly right. That's what happened. When I first got it, I was calling all my friends. Come on out, guys.

You know, this is so cool. And that has changed. As time has gone on, I've realized the severity of the truth of what can take place out there. And yet at the same time, I originally wanted. wanted it to be sort of a place where getting back to the large canines, a lot of the ranchers and farmers in the area, for good reason, they just blast anything that's a canine no matter what. And there's a long history of that taking place at the neighboring property as well, talking with the security guards. And so originally, I guess I kind of had a tree hugger mentality

of, hey, I just want to have a spot where, you know, it's like a rest area for even the high strangeness if it needs to kind of be in a safe spot. And so I have a no, no firearm policy on the property. And there's other reasons to that as well I'll go into, because it turned into the okay corral there for a while when the caretakers were armed. And I mean, there was, there was shooting going on all the time because of the high strangeness. So in a way, I wanted it to be sort of a designated timeout space for everything. And that has stayed true to form in a way because, as I said, it's expanded a little bit. The property's grown a little.

And I've interacted with and had dealings with other research partners, which have varying methods of interpretation on what's taking place. there. So, for example, people doing consciousness studies, delving into technologies that interact with the brain, allowing it to kind of peek behind the veil. And a lot of these are well-documented, God Helmets, Anjolamps, Pandora stars. These technologies exist, and a lot of places have tendrils of interaction with these research partners, including the Monroe Institute, the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies, etc. So I'm very open to research as long as there's a dialogue and an interaction,

but not everybody sees things the same way. And this kind of comes back to when you were asking me if I was a Christian, because some of these individuals, research partners, organizations, and even like I mentioned, the Native Americans that I saw possibly doing occult practices, I need to be open to the hierarchy of the reality of what is taking place. And what I mean is, you know, it's like there's a circus going on. And I have my belief system like you do, you know, where we've picked our team and we have our political, spiritual agenda. But at the same time, there's this circus going on because the place is technically like a paranormal Disneyland.

I have to respect the fact that there is a hierarchy of this going on and in this realm of possibly fallen spiritual characters as well. And there is so much taking place that to get a true bead on what's happening, I don't think. you can be closed-minded. And so I do have conversations. I interact. I respect things that other people bring to the table. That being said, at the end of the day, I get to practice what I preach and do what I believe is right. But, you know, it is much like a spiritual thing. You know, you have your favorite candidate, but the only way you can really affect the way things happened in society is to still have conversations with the quote-unquote enemy or, you know, the political character that you probably would not want to be running things. So I don't know if that

makes any sense, but some of these groups, especially traditionally, who are involved with sort of the nuts and bolts research with investigating the phenomenon, have found that there is a pre-cognitive sentient intelligence that roams the landscape. And for lack of a better word, that is something that knows what you're going to do before you do it, knows what you think as soon as it enters your mind. And it's not omnipotent, like the guy we call boss, it's not omnipotent like God, but it's definitely going to be a God with a small G. He's got, they have a hidden agenda, and for lack of a better word, have the creativity of fallen angels. So, you know, that term precognitive sentient intelligence was actually coined by John B. Alexander, a colonel.

And he also delved deeply and interacted with many people who would be called Satanists, Anton LeVay. And you'll find this with Jacques Valet as well. Hal Putoff was definitely involved with all kinds of things like Scientology. So you have to accomplish a really good picture of what's taking place and get a good view of what's happening. You have to be open to kind of, you know, at least touching base occasionally with some of these organizations, individuals, and people who have different belief systems than myself. I don't know if that even answered the question. Well, it doesn't matter. It was fantastic.

I don't even know what the question was. I'm just listening. No, and I understand. And everybody has their own viewpoints and perspectives to go with. And like, so your perspective, what you just shared personally, on the surface, I would have a hard time with for me to, to, with my property. At the same time, you're not living on the property. Because like it's not like you're going to let somebody come to your house to do this

stuff, right? Like you don't even live in the same state as this property. And so it's like, so I understand your perspective. And if you bought the property to be researched, you're trying to let research take any avenue research takes to get understanding. And so I can understand it. You said fallen spiritual characters. And I was like, what? And then you said fallen angels.

I'm like, what? And then you're like, small G gods. I'm like, Psalm 82. like so like wow so it's what i find interesting here is so what you're saying is you think that on the property the area old ancient small g god or gods might be possibly responsible are they part of these partly responsible for this are they working with fallen eight in your perspective you're not you know you're not god you don't know but from your perspective are they Are you referring to fallen angels exclusively?

Are you referring to small G gods working with fallen angels or or what? Okay. I'll try to. So the semantics is where the hangups are. That is kind of the thorny area where a lot of research gets hung up and it doesn't move forward. So the semantics are something I try to ignore, but you also have to be able to communicate what you're talking about.

So yes, in my rational approach to the whole thing is the wild idea that, you know, it comes back to like, what would Jesus do, right? And he was never afraid of, you know, any of these demonic entities, in fact, engaged with them to the best of his ability because at the end of the day, his job was. to not only analyze the situation, but to act in a way that was correct. And so while when I'm speaking with others, I say definitely, you know, be careful of some of these occult belief systems. I don't purport that they're good. At the same time, in another direction when it comes to the research, I think it's important to realize, you know, you're quite literally mapping out what's taking place in the area. And there's some history that warrants the fact that Native American tribes were battling,

something that was considered unforgivable took place between two of these tribes, the Ute and the Navajo. The Navajo have always been very passive, very, you know, kind of the what would Jesus do type. yet this infarivable transgression was seen as something that could not be forgiven and they literally unleashed a curse of quite literally the darkest entity

that they could imagine and that was the Skinwalker which is going to have godlike with a small G capabilities of shapeshifting and basically causing havoc. And this has kind of the whisper of legend and all of that,

but it's highly documented not only through verbal tradition. I mean, for over 15 generations, the natives can tell you that there's been already sort of a rift in the area. So this was just the prime location to kind of Oppenheimer this and just blow it up, right? And go figure, as time has gone on, this has proven to be more and more accurate, that they literally opened Pandora's box or a portal for some of these darker entities to engage in our reality. Because everything that sort of can go wrong has gone wrong in the area. You had the first band of Buffalo soldiers were sent to literally, you know, keep a hold of this fort in Fort Dushain. and keep the natives there under control.

And they had their long list of occult practices, because many of them were from the West Indies. They were very familiar with voodoo. They were, for the most part, all Prince Hall Mason, so they had the Masonic devotee magic that they knew of. They also practiced other occult West Indian, magic. And then you had the natives that were there practicing their dark practices. Again, they didn't like each other. That's where they got the term buffalo soldiers. The natives

would call them buffalo soldiers because their hair appeared to them to be as that of a buffalo. So you had all kinds of a mishmash of dark curses going back and forth. Then fast forward to the Utah Central Water Project, not only damning Bottle Hollow Reservoir, which has its own dark history, but then putting massive power lines from an electromagnetic standpoint,

this is like the worst thing you could do, right? Over this porous red rock mesa, which already has water that shouldn't be there seeping through it, and then electrified with this massive powerline project. Basically, everything that can go wrong has gone wrong there. And then add to it the phenomena that government happened to just be, for lack of a better word,

testing their own exotic toys right there in the same area. It becomes quite literally a paranormal Disneyland where everything from, you know, sorceress Native American ritual to, you know, the closest, thing we can come to it from a government, black budget perspective, and everything in between. It becomes just the alchemy of the area turns into a historical smorgasborg of dark release. So Pandora's box basically getting opened and, you know, yeah, for lack of a better word, it seems to be the realm of the fallen is what I would call it. You know, it's an area where if you are a, uh,

entity, a something that has godlike characteristics, but you're not on that hierarchical level where you are the big G. It is a place where these things seem to be able to interact with our reality a lot more easily. Unbelievable. Listen, I'm sitting here and I'm listening to you talk about this, and I'm really glad we went out there. And I'm really glad we got what we got. But I really want to go back now. Like, I really want to go back now because I want to do something that has never been done on a, on, at least publicized on the level that I would publicize it on. And I'm not saying I'm, some head honcho, whatever, but we have a good thing going here.

And I want to find out what happens when you wage spiritual warfare for an entire week out there where I take my God Jehovah and try to smack around these fallen angels and these little G gods and see what happens. I want to engage in some serious spiritual warfare out there. I'm talking some heavy long hours of fasting and praying and seeing if we can, what comes of that? Does that spiritual warfare overflow into this realm to the physical, visible realm that we could experience?

do is is there repercussions that come from that because it is a war and it's a war because both sides smack around like you know what I'm saying I want to see what happens on that level like if you have people going out there and they're doing their thing performing rituals whatever I want to do mine I want to do mine for an entire it like it we typically go when we put ourselves environments and see what happens. As Christians, we pray on scene. We do. We did it there. But what happens if we don't just sit there to wait and see what happens, but actively engage and try to fight back these ancient gods? Man, let's go. I'm like, I'm telling you, man, like, I want to see what happens. I want to see what happens. I don't know when it's going to happen,

but it's it's something that I'm very interested in. Listen, you just named the episode, The Realm of the Fallen. I got to work that in the title somehow. But this might be a misremembering of sorts, but I want to kind of bring things in for a landing here, mainly because I'm working on school hours now, and I've got to pick up my son here soon from school. but I vaguely remember you, it might have been before.

I think it might have been after we shot, though. You contact me about something to do with the ground. Was the ground splitting open or something like that? Was that after we left or was that before? I don't remember. Both. And it is, yeah, it's very strange because it will open up. in a very dark way.

And quite literally, you know, it is like the underworld is just opening up and you'll get these, these 25, I think the deepest one we've measured is about 52 feet. They keep getting deeper. But it'll open up three to five feet in some cases. You can see down there, we've lowered stuff with like cables, cameras and stuff and flashlights at And I mean, it's extraordinary. It goes way deep. And then within a matter of days, it'll close back up.

You never knew it even happened. And these things are like long, huge cracks in the earth. And then they'll close right up. So from like the mythology perspective, not only, you know, Native American, but also other mythologies that have to do with the underworld, this takes on a whole other idea. And it, you know, I don't, I don't doubt for a minute that, you know, there is something dark taking place because even the top levels of government is split on this. You have, you have one section of the military industrial complex, very powerful Christian sect known as the Collins elite that says, hey, all this stuff is demonic. don't engage, don't mess with it, leave it alone. And then you have the other side, which is more the invisible college is what they call themselves,

and they are more of the belief system that, hey, it's okay to at least let it play and analyze what it's doing. And that's sort of in my belief system, what you said is really true, you know, practicing heavy Christianity. It would be, in my opinion, it's kind of unfair. that sounds really bad. I almost feel sorry for some of the phenomenon because it just gets crushed. Let's go. By our God, right? I almost, and that's kind of why, you know, it is like watching something,

watching a creature or watching, you know, I just want to see how it does its thing. And, but no, as far as, in my opinion, it doesn't stand a chance, you know, compared to the power of, of our spiritual belief system. But at the same time, I feel as if it is intrinsically interesting, and it's unique, and it's sort of beautiful to see it try, you know, to see it. And a lot of this stuff is prophesized, you know, in all kinds of different cultures, you know,

that these intrinsic energies will encompass. engage as phenomena because that's all they can do. They're going to seep through anywhere they can, and they're going to engage in ways that are trickery. You know, it's nothing more than trickery because they are not divine. But they do manifest into our world in ways that are very unique. And I mean, holy cow, I'm with you 100%.

You know, it's unbelievable. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, for me, I'm on a mission in my life to engage in these realms and to, through conversation, through documentary, through experience to raise awareness and show the world that the spiritual, supernatural realm exists. It is very real. It is here. It is operating all around you at all times.

And we often live our lives in a default way where we do not acknowledge it on a daily basis. I'm a weirdo. My job is to do this. And so daily, I remind myself that, you know, this is real. But for most people, it is something that every once in a while they are reminded of. possibly in church on a Sunday, they stumble across a TV show that gets their head scratch and they do a quick Google search. They find an interesting article about something ancient. They're like, oh, that was interesting. And they put it on the shelf and they go back to watching

basketball or something like that. For me, I'm on this mission to expose the realities of this stuff and good and bad. And so I'm I'm very, very excited about what you're doing, what has been going on on the property. I think that everybody finds their place in life. And I think you found a very unique place in life to pursue. You were into the paranormal before. And this is just kind of amplified everything. And it's interesting to see where it all goes from here.

Boy, I'll tell you, man, like, the more I do this show, the more I talk to people like you and people who've had experiences, the interdimensional realm, the thing on the other side of the veil, however you want to look at it, portals, gateways to other parallel universes, it's becoming so real to me that I don't even realize how. weird I sound when I talk about it to people. And it just overflows out of me. And let me just tell you, I was at a media conference this past week in a Christian media conference called Armed Christian Media Conference. And it's all about learning as Christians how to properly utilize social media, YouTube, and be better at this stuff and meet people where they're at, right? Well, the person hosting the whole event and putting it on was Pastor Deio, and he was on our show, I believe, episode 540.

We called it Portals to Hell and Biblical Super Soldiers. And he's hosting this event, and he tells me about it. So I got tickets from my brother and I to go out and learn. And he upgraded our tickets from general to top-notch VIP. We were having lunch with all the speakers and just hanging out with them the whole time. and it was really interesting, but I was sitting in this, this, you know, VIP room having dinner. And this is a room full of like pastors and, and, uh, Sean Connell from Think Media was there and his team.

And we're all sitting around a table and they're talking about different things. And somebody said something. Maybe they said like a key phrase or something that triggered my brain. Maybe they said Nephilim or something that I don't know. But like, all of a sudden. I found myself going, blah, and I just started going. And I'm like, you guys have to understand this is real. And I'm like, this is what I do.

And I'm just going. And I noticed that other people started gravitating towards the table. And the crowd around the table started growing. And the conversation starts jumping back and forth. And all of a sudden, I'm not the main facilitated the conversation. It's just going and going. And it was like, I was sitting there. And I'm like, oh, wow.

This actually happened because I can't. keep my mouth shut. And that's because it's so real to me. This stuff is so real. And I pray that it always is this real to me because I think that there's a reason why I'm here doing this stuff. I think there's a reason why you're doing what you're doing. I think there's a reason why we're connected and we're becoming friends because we have our own roles in this. And at the end of the day, exposing the reality of this realm is the bottom line. You know, finding the answers to And why do we do that? To expose it. To show the world it's real. And so that's what you're doing at Space Wolf Research, man. And I applaud you for it. I think it's awesome. I think it's really cool that you let us

come out and film there. And I hope to make it out there one day again. Before we get out of here, tell people, man, where they can find your stuff. I know you do hero paranormal. Is that the podcast? Is that still going? Tell people about everything, man. Yeah, it's a small, humble podcast, heroanormal.com. You can also go to YouTube and search for hero paranormal. It's on Patreon. I just covered topics that interest me.

You can also check out spacewolfresearch.com. It's just a little website. And yeah, I just think that, you know, the way that you're approaching this, I believe, is going to be the more fulfilling way, as you said, science has approached this. And in my opinion, you know, it just gives the phenomena more gadgets and tools to play with. So I think that in studying this, it's going to be, it doesn't always have to be in scientific terms. And I love what you're doing, Matt. Can't wait to do more.

And yeah, very, very interesting stuff. Awesome, man. Well, before we roll out of here, finally, you have seen the film. What's your opinion of the film? And if you don't like it, lie. You know, I think it was great. I believe it's extremely awesome because you, again, are tackling what I believe are the more interesting components, It's not just looking at meters and devices and seeing how the needles change on them.

You are going with your intuition. And I think that you're touching on all the important parts. This entire Skinwalker phenomena started as more or less a native psychic spy program. It started with good intentions. There's tales of natives under captivity being able to. take the shape of animals and go outside of their space and see what the enemy was doing, which was the white man. But understanding that everything has a deeper level. And I think that you really touched on the parts that I think are important, which is, you know, you brought everything

to the table, the UFOs, kind of the, for lack of a better word, the men in black or whatever, the other aspect of people, you know, keeping tabs on, on you guys there. Chasing us. And of course, yeah, I mean, crazy stuff. I think you, you offer a really good glimpse inside the phenomenon. And you do that from all aspects, you know. And eyewitness accounts, everything, the ritual magic. You touched on all the enigmas.

I thought it was really awesome. Man, I appreciate you saying that. I'll send you your check in the mail. But listen, friends, if you're interested in the film, please go ahead, check it out on August 19th. You can sign up for VIP tickets. VIP Tickets Plus gets you all the package of the VIP, which is the premiere of the film, the live Q&A. The Plus ticket gets you also the Shape of Shadows. It limits it limited time exclusive T-shirt that we'll send out to you as well.

So if you're interested in the film, it's coming up here on August 19th. And friends also check out Hero Paranormal Space Wolf Research. These are all run by our guest, Ryan Burns. And Ryan is a fantastic guy. I'm sure he would welcome people messaging him, emailing him, and asking questions that I didn't think to ask. So go ahead and do that. And if you like the show, please share the show. That is always the best thing you can do to help the show grow, share the show.

And until next week, though, stay safe. Take care. Remember, the truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you all. Bye.