The Confessionals - RELOADED | 678: The Dark Recruitment

Episode Date: September 21, 2026

In episode 678: The Dark Recruitment, Ross sits down in studio for a gripping conversation that will take you deep into the unsettling and mysterious realms beyond our everyday reality. Ross joined us in studio a month prior to this recording to share a battle he's had since he was merely 2 years old. His story was dark and full of very dramatic twists and turns, but things took a turn while discussing portals. Ross became visibly uncomfortable and made Tony aware that there was a dark entity attached to Ross that despised him. At that moment Tony shut off the cameras and began to engage in spiritual warfare. Ross requested that the interview not air, which led Tony to bring him back in one month later for a retelling of his life story. He now has shaken these dark entities like Lilith. Ross shares harrowing personal experiences of demonic attacks, recruitment attempts, and the struggle to maintain his faith amidst overwhelming spiritual oppression. MEET TONY AT:9/4 - 9/7 - PhenomeCon: https://linktr.ee/merkelmediaSasquatch and The Missing Man: merkelfilms.comMerkel Media Apparel: merkmerch.comThe Confessionals Members App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZBecome a member for AD FREE listening and EXTRA shows: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinAFFILIATESGo Silent with SLNT Faraday Bags: https://alnk.to/clXuRY5EMP Shield: empshield.com Coupon Code: "tony" for $50 off every item you purchase!SPONSORSSIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] to the Newsletter: https://www.theconfessionalspodcast.com/the-newsletterMAILING ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/theconfessionals/Discord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelProduced by: @jack_theproducerOUTRO MUSICJoel Thomas - GreyYouTube | Apple Music | Spotify

Merkel Media I guess it's time to go back in time Are you telling me you built a time machine Kind of a Dolion Time

is but a stubborn illusion I have a lot of memories Of the past People are time traveling within themselves Time travel Is possible This was all circulating

around the base that a giant had been killed but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long, bony fingers, reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear. When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me. And he starts running and firing at this giant. With a giant move, he's got to speed like this. somebody else shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face, they basically decapitated. Got price, and when he got about 15 yards away from me, I raised that 12 gig and I blow this head off.

I feel something pulling at my leg, and I look over and there are two small gray entities pulling it. And they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed. I reached my hand into this bush, and I touch air. Couldn't breathe, and I couldn't move. Because I know I'm seeing a monster. Okay, I reload it. Welcome to the show, everybody listening to The Confessionals Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Merkel.

Thanks for being here. If you have a crazy wild experience, you want to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is Contact at the Confessionalspodcast.com. That's Contact at the confessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, Theconfessionalspodcast.com. Hit the contact section, and you can reach me that way as well. Either way it works for me, just get a hold of me. If you want more shows on a weekly basis, go to the confessionalspodcast.com, hit the join button and become a member.

It gets you access to all the exclusive content right there on the website or on the Confessionals members app. If that doesn't appeal to you, maybe if you're watching on YouTube, you can just become a member on YouTube and get the same exact content right there in one centralized location on YouTube. Both locations have the same content. All right, friends, murkmerch.com. That's where we sell all our Merckmerch gear. Merkel Media has its own apparel line. We have t-shirts in there now. We're going to be expanding the inventory very soon.

But go ahead and check it out. Merkmerch.com for all your Mercklemedia apparel needs. Also, Merkelfilms.com. That's where we have our documentaries stored for your viewing pleasure on demand. Sasquatch and the Missing Man is the most recent documentary. It is my favorite of the three. I know you guys will like it. Go ahead and check it out.

Merklefilms.com. Today we have Ross coming on the show. And I'll tell you, friends, this is the second time Ross came in the studio to record, but it's your first time hearing him because things went down during the first interview. And he asked afterwards that we would never air that interview because he just didn't want to going out publicly. So I said, no problem. He wanted to redo the interview. So he came back in for round two. We do reference what happened in the first interview. So you'll see us talking about it, hear us talking about it. And we will do flashbacks to the first interview. So it gives

some context as to what we're talking about. But this was an interview. The first one, was wild. The second one, fantastic conversation without the crazy stuff happening because, well, we drummed up some activity here in the studio because I very much started suspecting that the entities that were recruiting Ross to work for him were with us at the moment. And so I started talking to Ross in a very direct way in a way that these entities did not like and they decided to show their faces. So with that said, let's get to Ross and this incredible story that he has to share with us right now. Today we have a fantastic recording.

And we haven't even started. Guys, how are you? We have Ross and we have Jason. How are you guys doing? Doing great. So you guys really don't know each other. But Jason was here. We were doing some training with Jason.

And Jason, you host what podcast? I host AFC discussions podcast. And my co-host is exploring with Phil. If you don't know, Phil, you need to check him out too. He's a great guy. Who doesn't know, Phil. Phil was on the show a couple of times, two or three times. I think it's been three times.

He's the Huckamuck Swamp guys. So if you guys don't know who Phil is, just think Huckamuck Swamp. Oh, I've heard that before. That's who we're talking about. So you host your podcast. You were over here and you were getting ready to leave. And I said, do you want to sit in on this? Because Ross has some wild stuff.

And we've been through this rodeo before Ross. It kind of got a little wild the first time around. one month earlier. I feel like I'm missing one, but there's at least three people that I know of that gave the nod and said yes. And it doesn't end well for anybody. Can you elaborate?

One guy, he, well, the one guy I just talked about, he didn't say yes, but the people around him said yes. And we know how that ended. another guy

I sat down with him up in Indiana and he was recruited by Ball as a kid and he said yes and that recruitment I don't know

I don't remember all the details I recorded with him I haven't released it yet it's about two and a half hour of conversation but he had basically his brother first came to me

who was going to be coming here to a studio soon to record with me again and part of his story and laying all the stuff out was that his brother was recruited and his brother said yes and he

he did some things to try helping his brother and it seemed like it worked only to find out Wallho's in Indiana for the very things that we're supposed to be put at bay are still bothering and harassing

his brother to this day. He's constantly harassed by entities that are just the way he describes them are evil, the way they look. And they come for him or they call him and he has to go.

and he often finds himself on a specific bridge that an entity comes and meets him at. And he's tormented by these things. I try to keep in touch with him. I text him every once in a while. Sounds like he's living. But I think if he could go back in time, he wouldn't have pulled that rabbit out of the hat. and he has balls sigil tattooed on his back shoulder. He doesn't want to.

But to this point, I don't know if he's totally shaking the proverbial contract. I don't know if there's actual contract or not. But it doesn't go well for people. And that's what I'm trying to say. You let go of that rope and you're like, screw it. I'm going in. everybody that I've talked to, it doesn't end well. People who are listening and watching on YouTube have seen the little clip that we showed them.

How long was that original recording? Oh, man. It's probably, like, two hours. Yeah, we talked for a while. Yeah. And, like, I mean, and it was, we were just kind of swapping stories or telling stories. And, yeah. And then we had an extra visitor.

Yeah. So, yeah, basically what happened is our discussion funneled into portals, and I got real serious, like real serious. And I couldn't even tell you what you were saying, because essentially what happened, I just, like, something on me started getting crazy aggressive. I didn't know what it was. I don't know there's anything on me. Like, aren't Christians supposed to not have things on them or whatever? You know, like, if you're covered, like, in the blood of Jesus or whatever, you know, you're supposed to be okay or whatever. Yeah.

And we just started talking and you started talking about portals and I just start going like this. But I don't know why. I just feel something coming off of me and I can see it in my head. and it feels and it I can feel it it's coming off and forward toward you and and it like I could hear its thoughts and it wanted to rip your face off that's like verbatim like and it was getting super pissed and yeah it was like it was coming off my hands like smoke in my head and it was coming up off of my back and through my body and like if you uh like if you uh like see like the run of the mill picture of Medusa,

take acid and then give her syringe needles for teeth. That's what was coming after you. Yeah. So not a pretty picture. So I mean, I don't remember exactly what I was saying, but I remember at that moment, we were talking about the poros and I was speaking very directly to you.

Yeah. There are time, it's easier to do it in person. because when you're doing it remotely with somebody, they're not getting the full version of you and you don't want them to take it the wrong way. And so you kind of, you try to say things in a certain way where here in person,

like you're looking right in my eyes. Like hopefully you understand the intent behind it kind of thing, but clearly something else did too because I was speaking directly to you about the stuff in a way where it was like more matter of fact, like here's what's going on. Yeah. And I think I was even telling you like,

you can get through this. And I started like directing you. And that's when you were like, it's pissed. One month earlier. But just from my own viewpoint, it doesn't go well. And so whatever you think you're relieving yourself of, it's just going to get 10 times worse. And you're going to wish you could go back in time and take it back.

Man, I'm getting really combative. How so? I mean, it's going on now, man. You know, I don't like, I don't want to I don't want to go the other way I feel strengthened

that there's still something in me and hates you is actively angry I'm sorry don't be I don't know what it is it's not nice Jack kill the cameras

yeah I couldn't even focus on you like literally in like like I like my mind, there was a brown, like a brown thick cloud formed in my mind. Like, I had control over my body. Like, like, I wasn't going to attack you. It was like whatever this thing was. And I couldn't, like, I couldn't form a thought. I couldn't form a genuine response. And I was like, hey, man, I want to respond to like, I'm in this conversation. Like, I'm in this. Like, I'm here. This

is like your time. But like, and I wanted it to be genuine. And like, it wasn't happening. And like, yeah, and this, yeah. Yeah. And that's why, like, we're, you're back here today because we're going to basically redo the conversation. I think it's going to be better the second time around because there's more stuff that's happened in the last two weeks since you've been here last that you kind of had clarity on. But that initial thing, we basically, I mean, I'm telling Jack, I say cut the cameras, cut the audio. Yeah. I get up. And what is the first thing I do? I take my gun and I take it out of the room. I take your knife off you.

Yeah. And we, we engaged in. spiritual warfare. We engaged in prayer. And, you know, I'll let you kind of fill the gaps on that one. But, you know, it was, it was something that I had a feeling. It could possibly go in that direction. I didn't know exactly where or what. But when I was talking to you in a very direct manner, I felt like there was a reason for that. And it was almost like I was trying to speak to you past whatever was attached to you, if that makes sense. Like I got a strong sense that you had oppression in your life.

And I mean, I think through a conversation today, people would definitely agree. And so you came in today and thankfully, you know, things have been doing well for you, I guess. Is that true to say for the past couple weeks? It's not like you've, I don't know, it hasn't like crawled out of your mouth or anything, right? Right. Yet. But we are back around too. So who knows?

That's why I had you stay. He's always like, hey, I'm like, you know. Your protection, man. You're getting you. Hold me down. No, he's the first one. I'll go. You get him.

Yeah, man. So it is not, I'll tell you what, man. It's not been easy. But so, like, I mean, we can get into it. That's good. So I'm 40. Well, I guess I don't really know where to start with this. Essentially, like,

I mean, this is all in hindsight, right? So, like, A, I just want to be clear, this thing isn't around. It has come around. And so it's Lilith. Is that what was going on when you were here? It's Lilith. That's interesting. And I can, there is a whole saga.

But there's a reason why I, I didn't know it was there. I mean, I've got like, I have been, I'm not, I'm not trying to aggrandize myself. Yeah. But I do have spiritual gifts. And, like, whether it's, like, land or people or an object or something, like, if I'm just there, like, it's like, it's like this giant antenna. sticking out of my head and it's just set to receive, I can't turn it off. And it just happens. Like, I don't enact my will on it. I have. And it is not a good thing. So, and I've learned that

the hard way. And, but like, but, well, let's just, I guess let's start with the two weeks that have passed and then we'll, we'll backtrack a little bit. So you cast this thing off of I go home. The first night is fine. The second night. So Lilith, how she has appeared to me, she's appeared to me a few different ways. She's appeared to me like the lady out of the grudge.

So white dress, long hair, super messed up face. And in that appearance. she has had sex with me twice. And it just, I fall asleep and it's just happening. It's in a lucid state. It feels like sex. So sex feels good. And I can go into the detail of the dream.

but the so she tried doing that again so the second night after our encounter I fall asleep and she is belating me it's the woman

from the grudge that's what she looks like or at least how she presented presented herself this time and and she's looking up at me like while she's doing it like more style

and it's as awful as you think it is. And in the past, I couldn't get away from it. And it was just happened. Now, it was like she was trying to come back after being cast off. And like it's happening. She just comes and just does whatever she wants.

And I go, you don't have a legal right to be here. the Holy Spirit has the legal right. And I just wake up and it's gone. And I've never been able to do that before. And it's like the, it is, it's literally like, what you and Jack did literally pulled the teeth out of this thing. And it had no longer has a bite and its grip is super weak.

But it still tries to attack. Beyond that, it has been crazy sex dreams. And, because that's another way, she'll like froth you up in your dreams. And then as the dream is going on, she's outside sucking up all your sex energy. And I know that because one time I woke up and I saw her other form. But she didn't know I could see her.

And that's one of the gifts I have is I could see stuff in my head that is in the room. And I've had two confirmations from outside. Like people confirm that with with that gift. and occasionally it will manifest and it will be as how I see it, whether they are aware that I can see it or not. So if you take, so this is the best way I know how to describe it. In that moment, like when she froths me up,

I woke up and I could feel this thing behind me. I turn around and it's this massive, like, if you take the moth man and let's just say that he has a shroud like a black curtain over him but he has the eyes if he just took it off and got to see what was underneath and so what it looks like it looks like you took a weed eater and gutted it and it's all slimy and nasty and it has like a like a proboscis like a parasite and it's just sitting there completely unaware and it's just sucking on me And I just like I don't know why I didn't think it was Lilith you know it's just but I just look at I go I see a Lilith and it went like this and went and then just phased out.

And it's like if I don't know why I was scared. There was a giant mutant bug sucking up all my sex energy. You know, I feel like a complete crazy person saying that. But like that's what happened. She has, so she first appeared to me when I was a kid, like a little kid. I'm talking like three years old. And she appeared to me in a dream and there were two of them. And this was very lucid.

It was this huge abandoned warehouse. For the gamers out there, it was. It was very silent hill-like. For the Unan gamers, everything was brown and rusty and nasty and dank. Huge open warehouse. And up at the top, there was a rusty rebar cage. It was huge. It was like just suspended in midair.

There were no chains or anything. And there are two, I'll just say, very attractive women. and they're in like the classic 80s like pleather unitard with the boots. One of them has shoulder-length brown hair. The other one has Marilyn Monroe tight curls. She does not look like Marilyn Monroe. These things were demonic but extremely beautiful. There's one on each side.

I'm a little kid. I am on my knees in between. them. So here's the funny part. Their names were Apple and Canary. It sounds like a B-Squod strip, like strippers, right? Yeah. But I was thinking about it the other day, and they're kind of archetypes, at least the

Apple is, like you could shoehorn canary as a bird archetype with Lilith, but that doesn't really fit. It's more of an owl, right? So I'm not going to try and make it out something, make it something that it isn't. But those were the names. And for a little kid, like seeing a beautiful woman like that, like if you're going to like give them like a sexy name, it's like what a little kid would come up with. So there is that dream and then it is just like that dream just no longer exists in my life. I can remember it.

Like I'll like every now that I'll be like, yeah, that's weird. But like I have no reference for it, right? Like they're like I didn't grow up in that kind of household. like my dad was an elder like uh we were like at a certain income level like grew up comfortable like very like like like midwestern like pragmatic like it like it was a solid home dude like there wasn't anything weird in our home like that like dad made sure that like i was a black sheep so i definitely knew and like because i was one who brought all that crap into that not that type of stuff yeah yeah and so um uh sorry i'm gonna look at my notes here you're good you're good uh

I will say while you're looking at your notes, though, I find it interesting. One, you brought up how Lilith was what we were dealing with that day. And just so people understand, like, the reason why that interview is not going is because certain things happened that we prefer to keep a private. And so that's why we're redoing this. We're trying to give people context as to what happened without, you know, revealing certain things that just need to stay private. But that day, when that day was over, I didn't know until just now that that was Lilith. And when I first started going down this Lilith hole with the show, the very first episode

that I did was with Bo Kennedy from the Bump podcast. And Bo said to me, I think afterwards, I don't think it was on the show, but he said, because you're doing this, you're going to, you should expect to have Lilith be popping up in your life. And no joke, dude, it's, it's,

I don't want to say it's a consistent thing, but it's something that, it, you saying that doesn't surprise me. I was like, huh, figures. And then you're talking about the true form

being like this insect bug type, right? Yeah. So you called it, you directly, referenced Mothman. Bo on that podcast. So you heard that?

So like he like he just predated me hearing that. Sure. I just want to let you know. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. We were not. But like he, he said on that podcast that

that I believe, excuse me, I believe he said that that saying that he believes that I think he believed that it was going to get him heat for, saying it, but he believes that there's a chance that Mothman might be a Lilith archetype. And the fact that you're saying that, I think Bo is probably, if he's listening, would probably

be like, holy crap, you know. But I find that very interesting that you, that you, that you, that you said that, though, about the Moth man, but also that we were dealing with Loth there. And, yeah, I could talk smack, but I'll just let it go at that. Like, I have thoughts on it, but I don't know if I'm willing to say it out loud, especially on air. But I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this. I was very, knowing that, I'm very underwhelmed. Interesting.

Like, in what way? Like, I don't know. The way people talk about Lilith, I thought the punch would be harder. Interesting. No. Well, okay. So does make sense. Like, you know what I don't.

It does make sense. I don't know your background. I don't know how you are with religion or anything. So like I don't mean to be like if I'm stepping on your toes, man, I'm not like I'm not like a preachy like it might sound like we go to church together. Yeah. Okay. Well, good. Never mind.

Okay. Cool. Yeah. Boom. All right. So I can't. I don't know. Dude, I don't know where the verse is.

But it's like when Satan finally gets like cast down like in Revelation and the world says, this is the one that we worship. and it's like this pathetic thing. It's like that, dude, there's somewhere else. There's like a thing where like God's like chastising people. It's like, I think it's an Isaiah. He's like, oh yeah, well, you want me to lift up your skirt and see what's under there? That's kind of the same deal, dude. But like, dude, this thing was nasty looking.

But it was also kind of like, but like it was kind of like, oh, like, oh, you saw, like you actually saw like, well, like, yeah, dude, it was a giant mosquito. That's wild. But it had like the big, but it had like the eyes, like the big, like red eyes. They weren't glowing though. They looked like giant fly eyes. Yeah, man. Hmm.

So my, like, so the other. And save that thought. Okay. But I do want to preface it because before we get too far into the podcast, I didn't say this in the beginning. You originally came in here because. of your experiences in other realms, traversing other realms, portals,

even during our pre-show talking, you mentioned spirit traps and portal keys. And I'm just like, holy crap. And so, like you've, I've interacted with several people who either know somebody

or themselves have been recruited by entities to work for them. Yeah. You've been through similar things. Yes. geographically, you're from geographical areas that I know other people have gone through very same thing. And so this is a conversation that's going to have twists and turns. But we're starting off with what happened most recently two weeks ago. But that's not where we're staying. We're going to be covering your life of these experiences of how you were traversing

the upside down. Hopefully you didn't lose that thought. No, no, no, no. No, I was just going to no more weird lilyly crap. But I'll go ahead. Real quick, speaking about the littlest thing, and you said when you were a child, it was the first time you sort of have an interaction with her. So a couple of years ago, when I first started my podcast, I was doing a reel on Instagram and asked my son, what scared him? And he said, when I come upstairs at night,

and there's a lady all in white standing in our kitchen. And that just, I mean, just kind of ring that, memory and I'm like, oh my gosh, is this something that's going on right now with him? Is he experiencing some things? It's like, dude, it's like they get, it's like they're trying to get you before that, before Christ can. It's like they're trying to get you and you're in it. So what I, so what,

what I understand of the things that I have experienced and have heard, like, in, like, dude, like paranormal pod, like listeners and podcast, dude, like, we can't shut it off, right? It's like this ravenous thing. Like you've got to know like, what's Bigfoot? What's Lilith? Like you can't stop eating it. And so all I know is like with the stuff that I've heard and the things that I have listened to,

I don't know. I don't mean this lightly. But kids are a tastier snack to these things. And if they can get their hooks in and start right. Because, like, you teach their kids when they're little so that, like, they form habits when they're bigger. It's the same thing only spiritually and with evil. It's the same thing, dude. That kid is a meal for this thing, like you did with me, and it ruined my life.

And so... Well, go ahead. To build off that, because there's something you said to me on the first recording. Yeah. that I think is context that I think maybe should be mentioned. Sure. We met each other at your job where you work. And after I was done doing my job at your job, you wanted to talk to me.

And it turns out you're a member of the podcast, and you wanted to share this stuff. You said to me that, actually, I want you to want you to. to share. I want you to share how this all happened as far as the the week that you gave for yeah, the ultimatum. The ultimatum. Yeah. The dream that your wife had. Yeah. And then me, I want you to lay that context out now.

Okay, sure. Yeah, absolutely. If that's all right with you. Yeah. I've, I made bullet points. Oh, perfect. Yeah. So, um, essentially, so essentially, uh, like, um, for, I'm just going to say 20 years. 20 years of torture, 10 years of seeking out. I mean, everything from like homeopathic stuff, VA Christian therapy, like all, like everything,

everything I could possibly think of to get like, because I'm like having all this crazy spiritual. It's nonstop. And after the military with the PTSD, it made it infinitely worse. and then adding pharmaceuticals onto that, like shot it into space. It was literally the worst experience. I would not wish it on anybody.

And these things just like, it's like a beacon. And it's like darkness brings the stuff like pain. And so essentially 20 years of isolation and 10 years of torture crying out to God dude the 12-step program didn't even want me I went to all of them

dude they looked at me like I had lobsters crawling out of my ears dude they didn't want to have anything to do with me and like nobody like why aren't you getting better we pray for you so all that to say

is I had already almost committed It's once because of this stuff. And I could see it coming around the bend again, but I knew I wasn't going to do it. I'm not going to roll the dice on eternity. Like, that's just, I can't do that. But there was a point where I was having a bad day at work.

My PTSD was highly agitated. and I've got an hour commute home or whatever it is, 40 minutes crying out to God. And that's a lot of days, honestly. So, sorry, this is all leading up to you. And I'm at home and my wife, who is amazing, always makes room for me. We've been married 12 years, always makes room for me. and she knows all this kind of stuff. She knows it all, all of it.

She's like, has experienced some of the stuff, not the stuff that we're going to get into, but she's not a stranger to it. And so, she's like, we just need to go outside and go, I want to walk. Let's walk around the block.

Let's get out of the house. Okay, I'm like chain smoking. I'm like super agitated. I'm going through like all the apologetics I grew up with, like all this stuff, just like raving. like a lunatic. And that's because I'm like, I'm super pissed. And like, yeah. And so, we get back to my house. I'm on like my fifth cigarette in one block. And I did not say this to

God, but I definitely meant it in my heart. I said, God's got a week. And I flick my cigarette. And I walked inside and I forgot about all of it the next day. And so, Two days before that, my wife has a dream. And she knows that I listen to your podcast, but it wasn't like, oh, I need to be on Tony's podcast. I was never anything. Like, I had emailed your wife because there was like a store, like a podcast that you had. And like I've never heard of that. I had that experience.

So, but like, but it was almost like I was just reaching out, like just reaching out to somebody because I had nobody. And, but at any rate, like two days before, like, I said God's got a week. but I didn't even really know what that meant. My wife had a dream, and the dream was me talking to her saying, I wish I had never done that interview with Tony. But we'd never, like, we'd never talked about like, man, it was so cool to be on that podcast.

It was never like that. And so, yeah. And then so then the ultimatum happened. I forget about it because usually it's like have this crazy PTSD thing and then like smoke a bunch of cigarettes and then go to bed. Like how some like horrible demonic experience

in the wake I'm going to work. That's like pretty much every night. And four days go by. I'm at work filling in for a dude. I shouldn't even been there. And I'm actually listening to Tony's podcast and I'm looking at the day schedule. I'm like, that's interesting.

There's some chick that has Tony's name. Because, like, and it was, it said Tony Merkel. I'm like, like, is like Tony doing here? Like, that's got to be somebody else. But like, it didn't have, like, it didn't have next to your name. Like, what was going on? So I was like, well, that'll get filled in at some point. But like the whole time I'm like,

And so, yeah, I'm just like typing along, doing my work. And then that line fills out. And it just said, paranormal. I'm like, mother. Like, are you kidding me? Like, what? Like, get out of here. Yeah.

And so, like, I literally, like, I had to forget that you were coming. Because I had to do my job. And I just acted like I didn't know you. and yeah, and then later, that's when I came up and I fire host you with all that crap. Yeah. Like, so, I mean, you did a great job, by the way, because the whole time I was there,

you just seemed very disinterested. And, uh, it was super faking it. Yeah. But afterwards, you came up to me and you're like, I want to talk to you when I'm done with my shift here. And, uh, you know, and I'm like, is it, what's going on? Like, did I do something wrong? And you're like, no.

And you introduced yourself to me. You're a member of the show. And you started unloading all this stuff. to me. And that day, I invited you to the studio. And that's when all that stuff happened. And I just wanted to fill that context in before we launch further down the road. Because I feel like I, I opened up this conversation rough. And so I wanted to kind of, I wanted to kind of like recover a little bit and give people context as to what the background is between you and I. Because like, you know, I just want to make sure they understand. Basically, uh, you gave this ultimatum to God. And I

wonder, and I'm not the guy to answer this, but I wonder if the flicking of the cigarette had any kind of, you know, it's like tobacco and people using tobacco as offering. And so I wonder if I had any idea. The other reason I know that is because I spent a week with Native Americans in Utah when we were doing the one film and he would use tobacco as offering. But anyways, and then sure enough, less than a week later, I'm in your studio and we're doing our thing. And so I do believe that the last time you were here was a divine thing. I think that it was meant to happen. And we are, even the experience at the end, I think, was definitely meant to happen.

And we're not going to let that experience negate from anything that could have been productive. And that's why we're here doing it again. So I don't know if you remember that thought I told you to hold on to like 10 minutes ago. But like, I was like, hold that thought. we need to provide context and then I took it away. No, it's fine. I mean, it's so we're talking about Lilith attacking children, which is disgusting. And, but it's, so I'm going to, I'm going to get a real personal.

But it's, it's maybe so you can see markers for your own son. So I remember So I had that dream I don't remember how much time passed But like single did still single digit years Not in third grade So like younger than third grade

So under nine years old I remember In the bathroom I had like a little toy tambourine And a green crayon And I just started drawing people peeing all over each other And I like I'd never like, and I was like, this, like, this has something to do with that.

And I know that, like, in satanic, that's like the satanic baptism. And, and in my mind, I'm like, what the hell am I doing? I remember I, like, I threw the tambourine away and I broke my crayon. But, like, I remember that. Like, that's stuck with me. And that, and like, even thinking back, it, it. It makes me mad. Not that I did that, but that I was attacked at that young of an age.

It makes me sick to my stomach. And, like, that there is stuff like that, like, those entities. But it's, it's, they just want to get you early. And then it screws up the rest of your life. And, like, and it opens up all these weird doors. And what I think, because, so we didn't have a, it. wasn't a witch in our family, but it was someone who dabbled in witchcraft. That can open up doors. And again, I'm not going to make anything out. She wasn't, you know, she's not like in the woods in a cave,

you know, rubbing sticks together to like bring forth, you know, ball or whatever. You know, it's like, she probably went to the, like, the New Age bookstore and like got some books and had her palm read and like maybe tried to do a couple things here and there. So, but that does open doors. And, And typical Christianity. It's just kind of like, you know, like my, I remember my, like my, so I wasn't alive when this happened. This was like in the, or I would assume that it was in the mid to late 70s. So, um, dad, the, as he tells it, he burned the books and like, and she repented of it. And like, uh, and I'm pretty sure she became a Christian.

Uh, and then, so like my first memory as a baby, like as a baby, I'm not even a year old is me astral projecting looking down on myself. And I remember that very clearly. And then the Lilith stuff and then this other thing. But this other entity, I think if I were to, I mean, we'd get into it, but it, as far as the narrative is unfolding right now, I think it would be unnecessary. but let's just say that very recently as I had done a complete spiritual audit of my life to figure out what the crap was going on like why is all this stuff happening because like this is

all hindsight like going through my life like I don't know what this stuff is and like and I'm making all the mistake like in my life I had no direction but I was older like a little older like no one wanted me around and so I was just like doing what I was just like doing whatever young guys do and getting into trouble, like whatever, you know, it's like, it's just that story. You know, it's the prodigal son thing. Like, but, I lost my train of thought.

It's all right. So it's just like this unending stop. Like it didn't, like things don't end. Like super vivid dreamer. Constant demonic attacks, like in hyper lucid dreaming. But in this lucid dreaming, because it happened so much, regardless of what was going on, you start to notice things.

Hey, if I look slightly in this direction, instead of this direction, if you look there for two or three seconds, you start to move, regardless of what's going on. Okay, that's interesting. I never sought any of this stuff out. It was never like, ooh, the next time, ooh, the next time I have a lucid dream, I'm going to do this. I'm going to, like, you know, expand my powers.

My powers. It was just like, it just kept happening. And then just by nature of repetition, like you would just start to explore. So I guess before I get deeper into this rabbit hole, I've been trying to figure out how to make these distinctions. But, okay, you have a regular dream, you have a lucid dream, and then you have a realm.

And then you have our world. They all affect each other in certain ways. And they all, like, if it's like a vendor diagram or like two pieces of Swiss cheese and like where the holes are, where you can see where there's a hole on the other. Like that's like a thin place where you can poke through and go. It's kind of like that. Like that, like it's, I don't know that doesn't really make any sense. But like, but if you have a, so let me backtrack.

A dream is watching TV. You can flip the channels and things switch. as dreams do, you can, and like, whether it's a story told from first person, second person, whether it's a horror movie, whatever's going on in your dream, a dream is essentially like watching TV. Lucid dreaming is like VR. You stick the helmet on, you're in this, like, especially when you put it on the first time, you're like, what?

Like, how do I, like, this is like super weird. Everything's hyper real. You can interact with things. You can talk with other people, like, you know, like over Wi-Fi or, like the internet or whatever, whatever it is you're doing. And you can interact, but like things are like kind of weird and they don't work like how they should. It's like in lucid dreaming, a good way to know.

Like, okay, it's super hyper real. But the door doesn't match in with the frame like when I close it. And then like if you can recognize that, it serves as a switch in your brain when you're there. Like, okay, now I'm lucid dreaming. Now I can walk around. Right. But this is like all trial by fire. but when you start like and so and when you're in another realm I'm just going to speak for my own

experience when you're in another realm um you when I was in another realm it was as if I was the ghost there so so I am there spiritually and you can get there physically so all of what I am going to describe is me being there spiritually and how if I had said yes to recruitment, they would have taught me in that realm how to do it here. Yeah. But I don't know to what extent when you are being recruited, you can feel the potential.

Outside of the potential that you already feel, you can feel like the pal, like it's like this weird like bleed or like like, so you're sitting next to me. Like if you had like this really strong aura or whatever, and then it just kind of like bleeds over like to me. And like I can feel like the potential that's coming off of you into me. And it's like this draw.

And you can start seeing stuff happening. I'm like, oh man, this could happen. This could happen. This could happen. This could happen. Like, but probably what would actually happen to make a joke is I could probably only turn Coke into Pepsi. You know, there's definitely like trickery involved.

And because they don't care because essentially like you're a, means to an end. All these entities, I don't care if you are second ranking in Satan's army. You are a means to an end. And that is, that is the bottom line. And they don't care if you're a part of a group, a coven or whatever. They don't care. Like, they just want your soul or they want you to just wreak havoc, do whatever.

Like, hey man, get recruited. take your own revenge and like we'll give you all these women or do whatever or um if you want to just if you don't even want to go there physically just sit in your couch astral project into somebody's house and cause re and or remote view or whatever it is that you want to do all those things are incredibly close to anybody if you give your life over to these things it will happen like that I feel it it was terrifying and uh So growing, so again, this, go ahead. Okay.

Again, I just want to remind you, don't forget where you were just going with that, but I don't want to move off that either. Yeah, yeah. So, first of all, this is more of a yes or no question. Sure. Real quick. Have you been recruited? Twice and tricked once.

Okay. We'll get into that. Yeah. So what you're saying is, when the three locations here, the dream state, lucid dreaming state, and the other realm.

Yes. When you're through the Swiss cheese tunnel to the other realm, you're like a ghost there and it's their physical. You're the ghost there, right? Essentially, that's essentially how I experienced. That's, that's, yeah.

Okay. And if you, being recruited there, choose to accept they'll team, teach you how to do what here? So I don't know. Okay.

Before we go into speculation. Yeah. Do you know if you chose to accept, would you have been able to traverse realms, literally, from here to there physically, not just through going through the dream state, going through the certain door keys, all that stuff?

Would you have been able to, like you did snap your fingers, and go to the other realm. Like walking through a door at Walmart. I'm not having, like, I needed you to say that. I needed you to say that. So that's why I didn't want you moving off because I have talked about this

over the last few years. And I think you're the first person I've had on the show that said it like that. And I had a feeling that's where you were going. but I wanted you to clarify before we moved off of it. Yeah. So we're going to get into this realm, and it might be a little underwhelming.

Because where I was was populated, but very neutral. And which is weird. And I was never, I never went from dream to lucid to here. It was always there. I was always just there. I would go to, so essentially how it works is I go to bed. I'm there. And when it was actually happening, like, I wasn't thinking like, I want to go to another realm. Like, it was, I thought I was just having like crazy weird dreams. Because the lucid state is

like hyper real. It's like you're on drugs. And it's, it has a very distinct feel. When you're in a like, when you're in a realm, it still kind of feels dreamlike. And like you can't really interact with anybody. But like kind of like here when, like if you see something out of the corner your eye. That's kind of how people reacted to me. And, well, I'm going to, not people, one person. And I was in their house. And it was a house. And okay. So we're just going to get into it. Let's do it. All right. So. And for production's sake. Yeah. Try to look at me more just because when the camera is shooting, it's just basically shooting your ear when you're talking. Okay. Sorry. Just so you know. So all of this. I mean, it happens.

and sporadically throughout my life. It was peppered in throughout my life. Um, and, um, okay, before I get there, here's what I want to say. Um, so missing 4-1-1, be like being out in the mountains, um, like all the stuff where things typically happen, right? Um, sometimes people come out, sometimes they don't. Uh, the thing that really like, well, I was like, oh, okay, hold on, was you had an episode from a, there was a girl from Australia. And the thing that crawled out of her, crawled into the room in her house,

the thing on all four, the black creature thing? Yeah. So when she first, like, walked in, right, she passed the log,

she went through, there was a house. And then when she got in further, like that house was no longer there, but she was still in the same spot. I remember, yes. So it's like,

so, okay, this, that, the upside down, is like that. So it will mimic things that are here. It's not mimicking things.

It's its own thing. There are people there. They eat food. They have canned food. There are places where you can buy things, but it is weird. It is very much like the Twilight Zone. And houses, sometimes houses,

and I'll, okay, so there are, so if you have Tony Merkel's house, this is just an example. And you go over there, it can still be there, but somebody else will live there. Or it will be shaped different.

Or it won't be there. Or if it's Tony Merkel's house there, let's just say you come over here and there's nothing and it's a vacant lot. So sometimes, or there will be a Tony Merkel's house. But over there, it's his house and an extra building. But it's the same thing. I got a question. Yeah. In this example.

Yeah. Is there a Tony Merkel there? No. So it's a different person. Yes. It's like a mirror world, but different characters. Yes. So, well, I'm going to say I haven't, I haven't seen a doppelganger.

My hunch is that if there is, it is just something, or not a doppelganger, but like the you that is over there. It's, it would be an entity that is mimicking you that then comes through here. And so like, hold on. Let me, I'm just going to. Okay. I have examples of places I've been. Okay. I just like just so I've seen my, so the places I'm going to mention, it's as if whatever is putting me there because I'm not putting myself here.

Whatever is placing me here. And again, all of this is very neutral. So it's not like I'm out in the middle of the woods where, you know, even in this realm, you know, it's bad enough that you come across a Kodiak. but then when you get into all the cryptids, like, right, it gets like spooky. It's bad enough being in the middle of the nowhere gassing up your car in a single like, like pump thing.

So imagine like in this realm, I was in the populated area. There is like, but it's the same. It's the same principle, right? Like you've got your people, then you've got the forest, and then you've got deep forest.

And it's all, it's the same but worse. So all, the things that like we experience that come through these portals, they, they're not even native to that. It's just that these entities go through all of these portals at will, right? Like, they have the keys or the cheat codes. And they, they just, and they set up camp there. Like, they're like, and I'll get into that. That's what the spirit traps are. Um, like they, um, but, um, but even trying to traverse, to try and traverse this whole thing takes practice.

And so, like, so essentially, like here, if you're walking around and it's like, I want to get a bottle of water. So that's in your mind. You go to the place with the bottle of water. You pick up the bottle. Then you start interacting with things, right? So you're walking and then, but you're not thinking about that. There, it's like, I'm seeing everything. I don't have a body.

You're not thinking that you don't have a body, but also you can't move and you want to and then you start freaking out and then you wake up. The next time you're there, you try and figure it out. You see something like, ooh, that's interesting. Oh, this is my dad's place of business, but there's an extra building. What's over there? Look over there. And then it's like it's on rails or I'm on rails. And like I go and I'm just moving toward there.

And then once I get there, I can like, I can interact with things. I can open up doors, right? Ghosts, they can like knock stuff off shelves, stuff like that. That's basically the amount of maneuverability that I have in this. place. By the way, it's always nighttime there. Okay. Always nighttime. That's a key detail, I think. The movement, do you think, would have been unlocked per se if you chose to accept? That's where I got tricked. Okay. So, at the apex of my PTSD, I'm crying out to God. I'm in East Tennessee at this point. We were in Chicago. We moved down here. I'm crying out to God in a

church of God denomination, right? Light Pentecostal, tongues, so on and so forth. I am crying out to God, to God in a church. And this blue entity, I essentially had an open vision. This blue entity comes to me, it basically looks like liquid plasma, blue liquid plasma. It was very shiny, but like it kept morphing and changing like from male to female to animal. Like it was just like, it was in constant flux. And at the time, I'm not in the state of mind where I'm like, okay, I'm going to test the spirit. It's like, thank God something showed up and helped me because I'm freaking out and I can't even hold down a chop. Right. We barely have two pounds of rice in the house, right? That kind of thing. Help me. God.

God, okay, this thing's coming down and it goes, hey, I'm going to give you this bat. We've heard your prayers. I'm going to give you this bat. It was a bat. Like a baseball bat or a bird bat? Like a flying bat. Yeah, bat man. Yeah, bat. There's a little bat. Kind of looked like a cartoon. It had one red eye right in the middle of his head. It's like it's going to work in the background, but it's going to help you. You can't tell anybody about it. And the vision ended with me in front of a huge foot with a robe coming down on it and a sandal. So that's right. like the little kid version of like God's feet and crying at the feet like the foot of God or whatever. And I'm like, okay. Like, it's like you're a spiritual warrior. And like essentially this thing is like playing my ego. But it's getting me at the most vulnerable point of my entire life. It really pisses me off. And, and so like, so I'm like, okay.

And then it goes away. I don't think about like, I tell my wife about it. like yeah, spiritual warrior, like this thing, like, like, this little, like, angel is going to, like, help me. It kind of looks like a bat. And, yeah. So that thing goes away. And this is after all of my episodes with being in the other round, by the way. This, like, by 10 years.

I have a moment just inside of a year ago where I'm like, oh, yeah, that bat. What's up with that bat? And I actually pray, I'm like, God, like, I'm having a real tough time. I need some help. I remember something about a bat. And yet, like, send that thing and help me. And this bat shows up in a lucid dream and shows me how to better traverse. And essentially, what it does is it would flit, like to somewhere, fly around somewhere,

and then it would use basically what it taught me is here's an I'm the anchor point look at me and then you'll move okay move here look at me and move here move but I had already figured that out of my own it just taught me how to do that more fluid I wake up like within like between the state of awake and sleep I hear a bat wing hit the side of my bed right next to my ear and I feel this thing curl up inside my chest after that moment, I had an immense amount of demonic attacks. And I asked God to, I was like, whatever this is, I don't know what it is. It's a familiar, by the way. I was like, get this thing out of my, get this thing away. I didn't pray like a special prayer. I didn't plead the blood of Jesus.

But I felt this hand just come up and take it out of me like he was taking a piece of toast out out of a toaster. And it just unceremoniously, he just took it out. So I don't know what to make of that, but that's what happened. So, because, so how that makes sense is why that happened later and not then is because I'd already had all these experiences. I'm a mess. This bat thing comes back in my life and then recruitment two happens. So if I had said yes, I would have had a friend help me out. I would have had a

familiar. So if you would have said yes, and so this is the first recruitment. This is the second recruitment. The bat's the second recruitment? Okay, okay. So first recruitment was in Chicago. I was pulled out of my body and someone said a disembodied voice said, we can teach you more. Oh, okay, right.

Sorry. And then they gave you the bat. And then, no, I said no. And then the second time I was in church and it tricked me. It was like, hey, I'm an angel of God. We heard your prayers. blah-de-blah, here's a bat. We're going to shove it up your butt,

and later on it's going to come out and help you. And sorry, like, it just makes me, it, like, it, it makes me mad. Yeah. And I feel stupid. Don't feel stupid. Don't feel stupid. Because, like, I've never had that experience,

but talking to as many people as I've talked to, going through these experiences are incredibly real. And you alluded to it earlier how there, opportunistic, they find the perfect people to feed on as prey. And so when you are in a situation where you're hungry spiritually, they'll jump on that opportunity. And it's clearly what was going on here. Yeah. So the first recruitment happens. You, that gets expelled from your body. And then recruitment two starts. Yeah. Walk us into that. again, this is all like in vulnerable times.

Like, I'm driving home from work. I'm in my Jeep. You know, again, this stuff hasn't left me. And all the demonic attacks, all the demonic torture, it just doesn't stop. And I can't sleep. I can't have a conversation. I can't even watch TV with my wife. It just goes on and on.

between that PTSD and not being able to sleep. And so I was just like, like, I'm sobbing. And, um, and dude, like, this thing just goes, and just like, again, it's in my head, but I could do it. I could feel it. It is heavy and thick and kind of hot. And it's this dude sitting in my, sitting in the passenger side of my Jeep. And like, I have my hand.

on the console, on the center console, and he very gently puts his hand on top of my hand. He goes, we know you're hurting. Super soothing voice. We know you're hurting. No contracts, no nothing. We know what you want. We know your capabilities. All you have to do is turn your hand over and grab my hand, and we'll do the rest.

That's it. Like, super clear. And I mean, I'm sobbing. I can feel the power off of this thing. And I can feel him putting potential in me and in my mind. Stuff that I already know that is there, but he's expounding on it. And it's like, I know where my allegiance lies. But in those vulnerable moments, right?

Like, I didn't think about turning my hand over, but I dwelled on that potential. for a minute. Because there are some people in my life that I do not like. And I'm ashamed to say that. But I just pulled my hand away. And I said, get the fuck out of my Jeep. And I left. That's exactly

what I said. In one way. That's the second time I heard the story. And I can speak from the first time. It's exactly how you told it the first time. I've had people throughout the year, talk about similar things.

And I'm noticing that there can be a simple gesture of acceptance. It doesn't need to be an outward declaration of will. It could be something as simple as a physical gesture to acknowledge that you're on the same page. knowing the hard time you were going through again, it goes into the praying on the week when you're in your weak moments, right? I'm glad that you had the ability and the strength to do that.

How long ago was that? Inside two months. From now. And that was the second of three. Two recruitments and a trick. So we've covered two recruitment or one, the first one was a trick. So the first one was in Chicago. So the first one that I had was in Chicago where I was, like, it was an astral projection,

but I basically got pulled out. I didn't do it on my own. It pulled me out of my body. And it was like, we know your talents. We could teach you before. I said, no. I got sucked back into my body. The bat was the trick.

The bat was the trick. And then the third, and then the second was the in the Jeep. Gotcha. Yeah. Gotcha. So do you feel like given what you know today versus two weeks ago, let's say the last time you and I talked here, do you feel like in that two week period of time, you are, I hate to say turn a corner.

I don't want to say like that, like almost like, oh, he's turned a corner. Right. But do you feel like there's still going to be further pursuit of you, even though maybe the last two weeks haven't been as bad as you've experienced? Do you feel like, I mean, it seems like Lilith still coming around. So do you think that when it comes to this stuff of recruitment, do you think that this is also going to be something that's going to continue for you? I don't know about recruitment.

It's possible. I definitely think they could try again, especially with. with, like, the little attacks are, like, not great. I mean, it's, again, that the teeth have been pulled out of the thing, but, I mean, there is still, like, I mean, she can make herself look good, man. And, like, and, like, the amount of, like, they project stuff into you, like, desire and stuff, and it's strong. It is really strong.

And, and again, like, if these, if they don't have their teeth pulled out, man, like, I mean, I can remember being at work and just gripping on at the table. I'm like, Lord, I'm not going to make it. You have to do something. So I'm not going to make it. Like, I'm going to get myself over to this thing. Like, I don't, like, it's not like a matter of like I'm addicted to it. Like, it's more of like, it's too strong.

Like, this thing has its talents in me. No matter how much I pray, like, it's not going away. Like, it's going to have its way with me. And like, that's what it goes away. It has its way with me. It goes away. It goes away. And like, I, like, there's nothing I can do.

You have to. intervene. Do you think, first of all, what you just said, you're talking like literally in the physical realm here. Yes. It's like you're awake and it's like this is not good, like in the moment, good. Yeah. It's not like you had a bad dream or something. You're just dwelling on the dream. It's like in the moment, really bad here, physical realm. It comes to me at work. And then I've got a 40 a 40-minute commute home, and then after I get attacked by Lilith, I got this guy in my Jeep trying to recruit me. Did he say anything about a name?

Did he give you a name? No, no names. I know we talked about this a little bit before, but do you have any specific thoughts or understanding should you choose to accept where you'd go from there? like do you have any like it was it would it be like something where it's all consuming now or is it they call you when they need you what would your job be would you have jobs all that because I know there's people in this world who who do have jobs yeah so um so I already know okay so I'm going to give you an example real quick, and then I'm going to go deeper.

So since we met, one of the attacks has been, like, Lilith was literally, like, wrapping herself around me and pulling my spirit out so that I could astral project and have sex with a woman. So that means if I wanted to, with these powers, had I turned my hand over, a very simple trick, a simple trick, as I could just astral project into someone's home and just have my way. So basically do what Lilith does to you. Yes. A very, and it was a, and it was like this very, but she was, dude, she was like pulling on me. And it was like, and this woman was like directly like in my vision, like in my spirit. And Lilith was like pulling us together. And like, I mean, it was like, you don't have like, again, it was like, you don't have a legal right to be here. the Holy Spirit has legal right to be here. And then it just went away.

It scared the shit out of me. Okay. So do you think that Lilith pulling you out of your body to have sex with that woman? Do you think that woman was also a human being that Lilith had pulled out of their body and brought to you? Yeah. That gives a whole other spin to J.R.'s experience, episode three or nine. I know you and I talked about before, JR, the 1% biker guy,

but in the overtime, he talks about his recruitment. And he was in the middle of having sex with his girlfriend. Yeah, yeah, I remember that. Right. Well, when he is going through the recruitment process, he didn't get a name either, but this being basically offers him whatever he wants.

Yeah. And he finds himself on a bed with three different. women ready to have their way with him. Yeah. And now I wonder, and I don't think I've ever considered this before, but I wonder if those three women were actually women just in the astral plane that were already ones that accepted their jobs and their recruitment. So I have two thoughts on that.

I think that is highly likely. I think the other, the other more terrifying. thing is that those are demons in the flesh. And then when you start doing stuff, they're going to transform. I think that is a high possibility that that could also happen. Again, easy trick. We're exploring deeper levels to the dream state, the dream realm. And for lack of verbiage,

it goes deeper than dream. And that's what I think we need to try to convey to people. And I don't remember exactly how you did it earlier, but you're talking about Swiss cheese. And for me, it made sense. But it's basically there's layers. Yeah. And you pierce through layers and you have different experiences.

And the most surface level outside this realm that we're in right now would be the dream state. You have Barney chasing you down the road. When you pierce through that layer, we're now in lucid dreaming, which is more controllable. Not always a mirror image of this world, but a very real, like you said, VR, I thought that was a very good description. Anybody who's used VR can maybe then picture what you're trying to refer to. It's not real in the sense of what this is, but it feels very real. It feels like you're really there.

you'll still jump. You'll still get scared when you fall off that building. I don't know if anybody's ever played that game, but it's pretty wild. But,

and then if you pierce through that, now you're talking about the upside down. Right? Yeah. And so it's essentially from our world to there. It's like those two,

the dream and the lucid or the membrane that gets you there. This is interesting. So in the lucid state, there are doors. There are wooden doors that look like that. You mean lucid state as in lucid dreaming, not like...

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, lucid dreaming, sorry. Okay. So in lucid dreaming, there are doors. I have seen them. I have interacted with them. I have not walked through them. One has opened, the others have not. I have seen three total.

So they just look at a wooden door. But they are moving back and forth because the other realm, the door on the other realm. So this is how it, so this was not a download. I would be super clear. This is me like just thinking it through. So you have the lucid realm and then you've got, or lucid dreaming and then you have the upside down, right?

They each have a door and they have to match up to open. Otherwise they don't open. Yeah, I don't know. This is what I saw. Okay. No, I need you to explain that. again, just so I can understand again? Can you just do that one more time? Yeah. So imagine, so imagine like two doors, like this is how it was presented in my mind.

You have a cylinder. Let's say there is one door on each cylinder. You divide that cylinder three times or two times so you have three pieces. Okay. They all turn in different directions. and when the door on one cylinder matches with another door, they open. So like a lock. Okay. Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Okay. So it's like that. But you see the door moving back and forth and there's light coming in between the cracks and that's the space between the realms. Sometimes it's a void. Sometimes it's white. I'm just, this is just what I saw. Okay. I'm not saying this isn't like a hard fact.

Like every time this is what I experience. And so I have never seen them pass and open. Okay. But this is like what I am gathering when I have seen these things. Right. So I can't give you hard evidence. But when you try and open them, they do not open. But they are moving back and forth.

Like right? Like a rumbling like like I don't know. Like when someone like two different things move like there's vibration. And like and it's the. vibration of both realms moving, and it's vibrating the door back and forth, but you can't open it. They have their own time when they open one. It's when they meet. Now, I'm sure if you were like a super powerful mage or witch or whatever, I'm sure you could blow a door open and cause all kinds of chaos, but like, you know, the door that opened, I was in a lucid state and it was a massive iron door.

and this iron door had three heads in the middle of it. It was an eagle, an ox, and I believe a wolf. And they were huge. This door is massive, by the way. A huge, massive iron door, probably 15 feet high. I don't know how wide. I'm not open in it. And this is when I was a little kid. From those, there were heads of smaller sides,

and then it would disseminate, and then the heads would get smaller and smaller, so it kind of made an oval. So small heads, three main heads. This is in a room that is super long, like a castle hallway. There is a red carpet. It is all nighttime. There are picture frames all over the walls of different sizes and so on, very cinematic.

I get to this door and I'm just looking at it. And all of a sudden, it just opens, like as if someone was holding their breath and then exhaled. And it didn't open fast. It just opened. And when it opened, the exhale, we'll say, was, I don't know, maybe about 20 spirits directly entering my body and then shooting out. Now, I don't know what that was about, but I think that's where I got my gift. That moment? I think.

I'm pretty sure. Okay. Of being able to discern spirits and be able to traverse. So this was, like the gift wasn't something you've had since childhood. No. Interesting. So, but this happened like in early childhood, but I didn't have it all the time. So, but again, when I am in the other realm, I am not choosing to go there. I am just placed there. Sometimes I'm just, it's like I'm being held by my shirt and my pants and I'm just being shown in area.

You don't know by who or what? there's no feeling of good or bad. It's just I'm there. It's just an example of like I'm just like suspended. But you don't know how you got there. Like you like it's not like you were taken by the hand of. No. Some entity with a white face or anything like that.

No, no, no. There's no one. It's just me. You just appear. Yeah. So you don't know how you got to these other realms. Correct. There's no blueprint. There's no map.

There's no way for you to figure out like. Unless you, my conjecture. Is if you accept. As either if you accept or you feel. You're in the lucid state long enough to where the doors match up and you go through. And then it takes you to God knows where. Do you think that the door is not matching up is by design or is it just by chance you didn't see them?

I think it's like a quantum lock. And it's just by design. I think that in the infinite wisdom of God, like the universe and all of the rounds, which are good. They are good things. They have just been bastardized by the enemy. So essentially, the entire. universe is like realms in all is a giant quantum terrarium clock. And these realms will click together every now and then.

And when they click together, like an old German cuckoo clock, doors will open and things will come out and move around. But like you and me, like you and me could do that. But the enemy can do it at will because they know how it works. I know that there's a lot. It doesn't make any sense to me. It actually, it kind of matches up with a lot of things that I suspect. And in very elementary way of saying it, I started trying to describe it as,

we don't have the keys. We don't have the keys to open the door, but they do. Yeah. They know how they have the pass code. They know how to go back and forth. We don't. I suspect, and this is just me suspecting, and I'm just taking it for what it is. I'm a podcast, retired trucker, like literally not a theologian.

But I do suspect that our existence was far, we know it's different, but it was far more different before the fall of man than what we have now. And I do believe the common trait of punishment that was listed in Genesis is physical. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Things are now physical. Yeah. And I think there's a reason why we could exist next to God in the garden and Moses couldn't. And God's like, I can only reveal a little bit of me or else you're going to die. And I think it's because something changed. Yeah. And I think that that changed because of what we did. And so because of what we did, we changed, but the things around us didn't change, and they still remained the ability

to traverse back and forth. And I could be way off. Like, I could be totally wrong. No, no, it totally makes sense. So, um, you want to talk about the realm of what's in there? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Because I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, uh, to get into something else. I just didn't want to, uh, I didn't know where to go. Go on what's up. Yeah. So I was thinking about the door, did you describe with the ox, the eagle, and what was the other? I think it was a wolf. It was something, I can't remember. I definitely remember the eagle and the ox.

The ox was the middle head. So biblically, you know, there's that description of cherubim, like as beast with three heads. It's either cherubim or seraphim. I can't remember one of those is depicted as like an eagle. And I don't know if it's an ox, but there's a three-headed beast version. of like an angel. That's what I was in Revelation. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, so that motif actually, like, I thought, I've thought about that. And this door wasn't necessarily a bad door. It was just like a door I was in awe of. But there was no sense of like holiness or righteousness. But it was like, it was essentially a giant closet that was housing something. But yeah.

And like, and the heads that disseminated from it. weren't evil. They were scary, but I've seen angels. And I'm glad they're on our side. Well, not all of them. Right. Yeah, right.

The good ones. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what you just said and stuff, I mean, that just lines up with scripture in general. I mean, you know,

like we, it's funny because Joel, my social media manager, he put out a reel, not a while ago. And it had, the first thing you see is like this scary looking an angel and my son sees it. He freaks out. And I'm like, oh, dang it. I hope my Instagram

at the wrong time. And he's like, what was that? And I was like, can't lie. I was like, it was an angel. He's like, what? I was like, yeah, man. The Bible describes Angel is kind of funky. And I went into this whole thing with him, but he's a smart kid. He can figure it out. But anyways, let's talk about these realms. What, what is there? I mean, outside of maybe like the Candyman. Oh, man. So this is, so where I was was extremely neutral. Again, so again, so like when you're like in this town, like it's like for all intents and purposes outside of crime or whatever, like people are neutral. So it's like that. It's, uh, and again, like if, um, thanks. Um, like this studio could exist. but it may not. And I'll give it. And so,

so I'm in this realm and I'm on a road. This road has a curve and then it bends over. And in this realm, there are so like if you're in like wherever, backwards Tennessee or like, if you're on Where's Valley Road, right? And they're all the mom and pop shops and like the shops that are in cabins. It's like that.

There are two or three and they were connected. You could go inside and buy stuff. But here, this place, it's the dark world. It's like, it is literally like the Twilight Zone and the Adams family birthed a realm and this is that realm. There are people there. There are humanoid people there think like the bar in Star Wars.

Okay. So we're going to like, let me. I don't want you thinking that face was that I don't believe you. No, I think it's interesting because what you're saying is that there are real. living, breathing, lives there. Yeah. And you're the ghost.

Yeah. Like this, yeah, again, this is like, the upside down for dummies. Like, this is,

like, I'm just like, telling you what I experienced. Sure. Like, uh, and again, like I can't interact.

Like, I, there's no, like, like I can't, like I could see everything. And occasionally they'll be like, like,

like, like it's weird. Like they thought they saw something that corner of their eye. Yes. Yeah. And so, Because I went into a woman's house. She was eating dinner.

And that's what happened. And it was a house that I used to live in in this realm. And in that realm, the house is different. And okay. So my experience with that is I'm in this place. It is a familiar place here. Here, there are two houses. There, there are three houses.

Two of them are on stilts. I recognize, the one that I recognize, is the one that I lived in, so I go there. There is a woman eating dinner. There is canned food. And this is me not astral projecting somewhere. Like this is like the, like, there are other markers that it's like this isn't me. Like I'm going over to somebody's house.

Am I like astral projecting over to somebody's house or accidentally remote viewing? This is like, this is a super weird place. in order to get there, like, so I'll explain it later. Like, watching her, like, just because I'm there, I'm like, I don't know, like, this is like, I used to live here. And now, like, there's this woman eating supper and then she kind of goes, and then just like keeps eating and then I wake up. And that was like one of the experiences that I had. So this other place, I was talking about the mom and pop place. So there's, I'm on a, I'm on a highway. This is in that realm. I'm on a highway. It's dark because it's always dark there. And there's a bend like a, so you're on a two lane highway. And then you've got like a trail or whatever, a road. A bends a certain way. And then there are the mom and pop like cabin shops. It's got all the like candies and stuff like that. But there it's, it's like I'm going to get candy and then a couple shrunken heads.

some dried up fingers, but it is, but it's, but it's not like, oh, I'm going to use it for witchcraft. It's just weird shit. That's just an example. But it's stuff like that. Instead of having flowers, they'll have, um, because this is what I saw. Um, I'm sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself. Um, I was in a certain part of Indiana not too long ago on vacation with my wife. And this happens all the time.

and this is the other part of the story, is that just like the gal who is in Australia, when she went in, before she went into the other realm, there was a house. Then as she came back, there wasn't a house. So in our realm, we were in a very specific part of Indiana, and I saw that road.

And there was a hard, like hard synchronization. And it was the exact same highway, exact same bend in the road. And there was nothing there. like it was just the road itself. And that has happened. Like most times that I'm in the other realm, when I'm here,

it will either be a series of furniture or some element or a house or just a part of the land or a direct synchronization here in this realm. So wherever I was, I will inevitably end up being there in this realm. And every time it is this hard. like, we'll just be driving and I'll go, like my wife can tell you. And I'm just like at a loss of words. She's like, well, I just do you in a dream.

And she's like poking fun at me. I'm like, I don't know how to tell you. And so the other, for instance, is, again, on this same vacation, we were in a certain part of Indiana. We went into a certain store. And in the store, there were. two yellow chairs, a coffee table, and a very specific couch. And it was also yellow. It had a wood frame that curved like that, and it had the lines

cloth feet. The way they were arranged, like we walked into the side room and I like immediately froze. Literally 35 years earlier when I was a kid, one of my first times in this realm, I was I was in a funeral home in this realm. The exact same chairs, coffee table, and couch, like exact. Only instead of flowers, there were three heads, each in a separate bell jar, all talking to each other. So it's, and that's just their furniture there. so I know how this sounds

but again that's I've just like it's the weird place I guess we can take a beat there sure so it

when you're describing this and I don't know what is making me think of this but it's been a long time since I've seen this movie childhood, but it almost sounds like Beetlejuice. That's what it sounds like. That's kind of what it's like. I was thinking exact same thing.

That's like the underworld. Yeah. That's kind of what it's like. One, I got to rewatch it. And two, they're coming out of the Beetlejuice again. Yeah, Beetlejuice. Yeah, don't say it again. Yeah. But do you think that what you're experiencing there,

the heads in the jars, the marketplace with the fingers and stuff, that weird stuff? Do you think it's like that for everybody, or do you think this is a tailored experience for you? Man, I don't know the answer to that question. Because so the takeaway isn't the weird stuff. The takeaway, like, for me, so like it's, hey, here are these places that you were kind of familiar with,

like the house and like a couple other things that I've been shown. It was like it was like trying to, like, me being there was to ground me, okay, this is a real place. And then the other traversals where it was just like, I'm just being shown a very specific thing, like the three heads in the bell jar, like the mom and pop places.

But it's also, I've also seen places in Korea and England because I've been to both of those places. And so it's stuff like that too. Sometimes it isn't weird stuff. Sometimes it's just a building and a parking lot. And then it's over. and then I'll see it like five years later.

All right. So let me ask you this. How do you know when you went from lucid dreaming to another realm? Like what's the, like, because here's the thing. So I think I've talked about this on the show. If I haven't, I'm sure I would at some point. And there's details I will leave out because I just not comfortable yet with it. but my wife has frequent lucid dreams.

This is one of the biggest reasons. People who, you know, maybe have been here a long time, they've noticed the transition in the show, I'm learning things. And the more I learn, I see reflected in my personal life, and I'm like, huh.

So my wife, I don't have lucid dreams. I have the dreams where Barney chases me. Be thankful. Yeah, I am. Every once in a while I have dreams that are very real. They feel real. Often they are sexual.

in nature in some way. Nothing like too crazy like you described, but just the sense, the environment. The one that always comes to my mind is like this like just trashy woman. Like I was like, why am I even here? And I like busted out the door. I was like, what the heck was like you're like you're not, there's nothing to compare with my wife? Like what is wrong with you? You know, like I was like, it was weird. You know, I don't even know if that was a loser dream or it's just a freaking weird freak dream. But like Lindsay has lucid dreams. Lindsay had, and we had Lindsay on for an overtime when I had Vicki Joy Anderson on. Yes.

And she talked about certain things. And her and Vicki really connected, because connected, I mean like in a, not literal like, we're besties, but like Vicki really connected a lot of dots for Lindsay. And since then, you know, the idea of Lindsay's dreams have been taken very serious, even before that. but we're talk about these things. And I want to know, and I don't know if you have the answer to this, but what I want to know, though, is, is my wife, because she's learning too, has my wife ever slipped into not just a lucid dream, but another realm thinking that it's a lucid dream?

So it gets confusing. So because traversal is the same in both. both. But lucid dreaming is, it's like, so this is kind of where you get into portal keys. And I think this would be important for her to know. They're one in the same. Portal keys and spirit traps. They can, they can kind of work hand in hand. It just, and again, this was all trial by fire over years. of just bumping into stuff. So you can either be taken there against your will or I would assume that you could go through one of these doors. But if you went through one, it's a crapsych to where you would end up.

Maybe it'll take you to a different realm. Maybe it'll take you to the one that I was in. Maybe it'll spit you out into the middle of the universe. I have no idea. Again, when I was there, I was placed there. and they were and they were hyper-specific areas. And so, so essentially, like, so in lucid dreaming, when you can, like, when you figure out you can kind of walk around,

whether, like, whether you're doing it on purpose or not. So I'm going to tell you, because this sucks. And, and you will get taken to a, into essentially a really nice cell, like a jail cell, essentially be tortured. Because this happened. So it's in lucid state. You're in lucid state.

You figured out you could walk around? Yeah, you can figure it out, or if you're just moving around. Okay. And if you get, like, the times where I have run into these certain things, which I'll describe, like, it will, it basically,

it's like a mouse trap. Okay? So like if you touch it or look at it too long, and I'll describe it, and they're all different, but they're markers. Like something will come out and it will attack you and torture you for as long as it desires, or until you wake up freaking the fuck out. So when you are in a lucid state and everything seems normal, outside, of figuring it out like, oh, the door, the door doesn't work and the water didn't turn on. Outside of that, once you're in the lucid state and you're moving around, there will be stuff that sticks out that shouldn't be in a room or it's normal objects that are like shouldn't

be the way they are. So, for instance, a really bad experience that I had is, and this, this is also in the other realm too, okay, like in the upside down. It exists there too because these things set up shop everywhere. So I'm in my apartment, or in like the lucid version of my apartment. I walk in and everything is as it should be how I remember it in that state, like in the lucid version of whatever.

I look over to my side And there is a So remember the plastic chairs You sat in in elementary school They got the metal legs And like So there's a stack of orange ones And they're all just

Crumbled in a corner Why is that there? Everything else is normal? Why is that there? So if you think of it Like here And there's like a dude And you're like,

I don't like the way that Like I don't like that I don't like that dude feels I don't like And then like And then you find out later on Like there's like weird shit going on, or like a house or a city.

Like, I don't like the way that feels. And then you end up finding out that there's something demonic. The same thing, this is how it manifests itself. So I was like, everything's normal. And then you've got this thing that super sticks out, but it's normal objects. So a whole bunch of chairs piled up and the room's dark and there's dust everywhere, but then the rest of the room is illuminated. And it's how it's designed for you to look at it.

Because in the lucid state, right, like in order to traverse, you look at it. something and then when you stick on it for like two, three seconds, you just start moving toward it. And so if you're like, oh, what's that? Why is that there? And then you start thinking about it and try and process it. You're already moving toward it. And you can't stop moving.

So when you go to it, like, and they know that. And that's why they do it. Like, oh, here's this weird thing. Let's go and fucking look at it. And then as soon as you touch it, it springs a trap. and it will either, and so portal key, right? So how I, this is just my experience. When I touched it, I was immediately transported into another realm and I was stuck there,

but it was essentially just like a designed cell, right? Like, oh, if they do this, then they'll teleport into this little cube that I have, and I'm going to torture them there until they either. wake up or someone is like, please the blood of Jesus, but I'm going to hold in there as long as possible. And it's going to scramble the brains for at least two weeks, figuring out what the hell happened. And the next time they're there, like in the lucid state, well, we'll see what happens. Maybe I'll come up with something else. So that's what happens. Or it'll just be more explicit and it will just come out and just attack you head on. So it can be something weird like that.

or if you're in a room. So my other experience was the red portal book. So I had a red portal book experience. You had a red portal? I had a red portal. Which is my, when I first, yes,

I did. It's super weird. So this is before, all right, before you go in the red portal book, I need to preface this because this is fresh in my mind. It was a member's episode. So people listening to this right now

may not all have a clue as to what you're about to talk about. Sure. But I had an episode that came out, I'd say, two, three months ago. And I had a guy on the show that, I forget his name. But he basically was connected to me by a listener of the show. And he, when he was in high school, him and his friends went into an abandoned building. And I believe it was a house.

and there was a closet in one of the rooms. Let's say it was a house, yeah. For whatever reason, and this is something that I'm looking back on it now, I don't know if I have answers to, but they go into this abandoned house and there are blueprints of the house in the house. And my question is why?

And did you slip a, did they slip something right there? Was there a ship? already in existence. When we did the interview, the way he told the story, the way I understood it was the shift happened later. But I'm wondering if the shift happened upon entering the house and that's why the blueprints were even there to begin with. They're going through the house and they're carrying blueprints. They go into a bedroom and in that bedroom there's a closet. Everything's on the blueprints. At the back of the closet, there's a door, which is not on the blueprints. They go in the door and there's a whole other room in there. And he said, when

they go into the room, when they went into this house, it was nighttime. They went into that room and there was daylight shining through the window that was in that room and this room is packed with books. There was a, there's a lot of books. They picked up a red leather, I think it was leather, a red book. They opened it up and there was images inside the book. I don't remember exactly what the images were, but for some reason I feel like it was darker images. And they freaked out. They ran, they left. They took the book with them. They came through the door that they went into, that room that wasn't in the blueprints. They left the house with the book. I don't know where the shift happened. I don't know if the shift happened going into the house or into that room. I'm starting to

feel like that shift happened when they went into the house. And the room was just an extension of the shift that already happened. But they took the book out of the house and one of the guys took the book home. I think they were in high school. I think they were seniors in high school or something when this happened. The one guy that took the book home, they were talking to one of their friends that wasn't there and they were telling about what happened. They go to the house to, oh, by the way, the guy who took the book started having paranormal

things happening around the house, weird, bizarre things. and when they go to open the book and they look in the book, all the pages are empty. There's nothing on the pages anymore. Almost as if they took the book out of this other realm, whatever was in that book escaped into this realm. Like it was a doorway or a key. And so that was the Red Portal book episode that you just referenced.

And I had to tell that story because if I didn't, I don't know where you're going, but I wanted people to have context who maybe didn't have that episode available to them. Yeah. So your wife. So essentially anything that sticks out like a sore thumb, don't touch.

Like you can notice it, but don't look at it too long because you'll just start moving that way. Okay. So, and I have to talk to her about this, but what I gathered when she talked, to me about this stuff is that she is moving freely. Yeah.

So that's, but you're saying and you're lucid dreaming, you're more like on a track. Yeah. At least how I experience it. Sometimes I can't move around freely, but like at least through my experience. And again, this isn't like a hard thing. Sure. Yeah. This is just like Ross's lucid dreaming.

I'm not expecting you to solve all the mysteries today. Don't worry about it. Like, but yeah, like I just. whether you're moving around freely or not, like something like super sticks out, don't walk toward it. You mentioned about the lucid dreaming and the other realm.

You talk about things that are there. If you have more, that's fine. We can talk about it. But is there any kind of trickery that you've ever experienced or felt that would lead you to feel like these entities, because entities are approaching you in the lucid dreams. Obviously in the other realm.

Is there ever a motivation that you have ever felt that they're trying to trick you into believing you're in one state and not the other? That's a really good question. And I don't know. That is the honest to God's truth. I do not know. All I know is that the interaction with items, the way things look and feel are completely different.

Like for me, and in lucid dreaming, you can be in a wide open space and explore the whole thing. You can do it until you wake up. Like, it's, like, there is good lucid dreaming. It's not all bad. Like, you can do that. But the, but I do not know. That is the, that is a short answer. But here, here's, here's what I think about all of it, though, about, like, as far as, because.

So what I'm there and I'm showed a specific area. And then when I'm here, and then I end up just inadvertently overlapping to the same area. And this was like a hard synchronization. And every time outside of the areas where it was there just, I was just being put to just show me that there was a real realm. Like when I'm shown very specific areas, those places in this world are always have a strong demonic dominion over. So that is the only through line. And I don't understand why. I don't know if you ever heard of spirit mapping

I feel like I have Or you've got like a bunch of like a bunch of weirdos like me and they're Christians and then they go to an area and they all kind of have the same vision and then like they all pray to God and then God's like

you should do this, this and this and then they kind of set up shop there How do they know it's God? That is also a very good question right? Because I was talking to my wife about all this and she's like how do you know? I mean yeah like I mean like you literally

were in a church and thought that you had an experience right? Yes. So that is the million dollar question. And that is where you test the spirits. And I tested that spirit. So I think it was Joshua when he like got out of his tent and he looked on a hill and he saw an angel. And he just said, are you for me or are you against me? And it's kind of that way. How I have experienced it when I have tested the spirits, which I did it before and after that experience. it's most like even when I've got like all these great visions and like see all these because like you can have a million visions and they don't mean jack freaking squat you can tell all these cool stories but at the end of the day if you have a demon up your butt who cares you know what I mean so you're right how do you know and the only way you know is like does it sound like a bill of goods first off is like your instinct okay

why is the angel Gabriel talking to me? That doesn't make any sense. Red flag one. Why is he giving me a bat? That doesn't make any sense. Red flag number two. Right? And then why is this having it into church?

What's the spiritual condition of that church? Are they just all about visions and that's it? And then when they preach the Bible and then you go home and watch UT football, like, where do you get out of that? What's going on in the pastor? life. Have they been thoroughly vetted? Like, what's the spiritual condition of their congregation? Do people ask that question? Dude, I just want to go to church. I just want to hear the gospel and go home. Do you know the state of the evangelical church, broadly speaking? In the West, it's

circling the drain, dude. Yeah. It seems like every other week there's a pastor that's... If you want, if you want the real deal, you got to go to a third world country. Like, that is where you're going to get the hardcore stuff. And, like, so, um, so essentially ties, this is what I, this is just what I do is, uh, anytime, any vision or anything, uh, something's talking to me saying, hey, warrior, how you doing? Hey buddy I just go In the name of the Father And Jesus Christ

And by the like in the blood that he shed Are you speaking truth or not? And ever like for me You know they could say yes or whatever But if you bring in the blood of Jesus Like I'll either get Hey thanks for testing the spirits Or I get a hiss

and that's just been my experience. It's like it's a it's a hiss and it goes away. Is it ever transformed? Yeah. It was kind of like the thing that came off of me. It just like it just immediately like just shrivels and shrinks into this like horrific thing. And then it just goes away. So not to circle all the way back to the beginning because I think we're probably like two,

two and a half hours into this recording. But we opened up the show. talking about what happened last time. Yeah. And I do not remember if you talked about it right because you did talk about it right before the recording. I don't know if you talked about it on the recording, though. You did say on the recording that it was Lilith, but you started talking before the

recording about what you were seeing, the details. I feel like you said there's like horns and stuff. Like, could you just for, if this is a repeat, I apologize anybody listening, but if it's not, I think it needs to just be said before. before the recording ends at some point. What did you see here two weeks ago that made me kill the recording and change course of that day?

You were talking about opening portals and bad people opening portals. And I put my arms up like this. I could feel it was like, it was like smoke. and it was coming off of my hands and it was coming up off of my body and then moving forward towards you through my head so like her, say like her eyes are like right here.

I was super pissed off, like super aggressive. The thought was, I'm going to tear your face on. I had a syringe needle teeth like teeth. Almost exactly looked like hypodermic needles. It had pupil's eyes. This thing was white like smoke. And it essentially looked kind of like Medusa. It had like, they weren't snakes, but it had a hair like that.

And it was poised and ready. What do you think would have happened if we didn't change course that day? Do you have any gut feelings? I don't. I'm just asking. I think you're well protected. I think it would have tried to have done something. I think had you not been well protected,

it would have followed you home and wreaked havoc in your house. Because it doesn't care about one person. It wants the most vulnerable person. That's how these things work. That's why it's very important, like you were talking about earlier, to protect our children. Yeah.

And that's spiritual protection. Obviously, like, I mean, maybe. It'd be awfully convenient if I could shoot Lilith. but I have a feeling that it's probably not as practical as prayer and engaging in the warfare there.

I hope people are through these crazy experiences and stories and I'm sure there's people listening to it's like this is freaking bonkers. These guys are off the rocker. But those who are still sticking with us, I hope that one of the biggest things that they can gather from these kind of conversations is that

they can intercede on their behalf and their family's behalf through engaging in spiritual warfare in prayer calling upon the name of Jesus

for protection for their life for their children, their spouses, the people around them. We did that that day here after we disarmed you. Can I just have anything?

I had to make sure. Yeah. I was like, because I mean, you literally said to me you have violent, Like you feel a raging. And I'm like, okay.

All right. Basically, what I wanted was I wanted Jack to kill the cameras in case I had to kill you. He wasn't on camera. Because I had to be able to dispose of the body. No, in all honesty, though, I hope people are gathering that at least, that the spiritual realm is real. It exists. And it is far more complicated than what we've traditionally been taught. and you were just referencing about Western evangelicalism,

I feel like we're experiencing a shift, and the shift is happening like a Y in the road. There is a Y in the one branch, say the left branch cuts down the route you were kind of talking about, where it's like it's going down a drain right now. But then there's this other shift happening where people are waking up, and they're realizing what people,

in third world countries in the East have known for decades. When you encounter, when you encounter people that are claiming Christ in other countries, their faith does not look the same as what we traditionally see here. And it's like, I think we're experiencing that split and people are going, you know, with the drain or they're waking up. But I don't think there's a whole lot of neutral anymore.

Oh, everything's great. It's always been great. So it's always going to be great. I think there's a clear split happening. And before I go any further, I want you to say something. I know you're getting antsy, so you probably have something to do.

Didn't you and your wife do missionary work? Yeah, we did. Well, my wife did. I didn't. But, yeah, she's had experiences in Honduras, Nicaragua. Yeah. So, I mean, she's probably talked to you about, like, the differences in the cultures within the church.

Yes. What were you going to say? Well, so I guess my take on the whole other realm thing and why I was there, whether it was God, like, right, whether it was God or not. Let's just say it wasn't God. Okay. Let's just do devil's advocate. Let's just say it was Satan's plan all along. He has like my two handlers, right, apple and canary, you know, my two stripper chicks.

You know, they're watching over me making sure I stay in line. And then let's just say, and they endow me with all my spiritual. gifts. Let's just say that that's what that was. Okay. And then all of a sudden, I'm traversing all these, this realm, whether, like, regardless of what it looks like, I'm there, I'm being shown things. And then in reality, I'm seeing like the real, like the other, like our version of it. And then those versions are like these hauled out like places where the like the spiritual marrow has been sucked out by like demonic dominion. Okay. So what is that verse? What he meant for evil, God meant for good. So I'm not saying that I go ahead and start using.

in this gift again because I've actually prayed for God to close it recently. I was just like, if this isn't, like, if this isn't for you, like from you, like make it stop. I'm like, I'll work at Dairy Queen for the rest of my life. Whatever. I don't care. Like, like, I'm on, like, I have chosen you. If I'm just reading the book of John and working a Dairy Queen for the rest of my life and that's

it, I'm good. So, but if he decides to, for. whatever reason, continue to show me places in the underworld or otherwise, and then say, you're here, why don't you go pray for that gas station attendant that's there? And then maybe that gas station attendant goes on,

and then something happens with that. There's no overwhelming sense that I need to set up shop there or anything like that. But for whatever reason, I've been shown these places, and then I see them here. Sorry. Go ahead. And as far as like them being over here in like spiritual warfare, like all this stuff actually really like knowing that I've been taking advantage of.

And even in my own rebellion and stuff like that, like I'm not in like I never messed with Ouija or anything like that. Like I never pursued the dark arts. Stuff just happened. And I really, I mean like, dude, if you ever go on a dog man hunt, I'll bring a circular saw on some road flares, man. We'll burn those things out and we'll go to town. You know, it's funny because, first of all, you say, if you ever go on a dog man, if I ever. The next time you go on a dog man. Next week I'm going.

Like, what are you talking about? Like, that's like my new sport. But it's funny because you say that and there's a former guest that just aired yesterday at the time of this recording that I'm, kind of itching to bring out with me. And I don't know if I should bring both of you at the same time. That might be a bad recipe. But like Nathan Reynolds, like he's like, dude, we can go out in these hills and call them in right now. I was like, say less. I don't know if people heard that episode, but like I literally was like sitting there. I'm like, can you kill him? And he's like, oh yeah. I was like, hmm. Like I'm thinking of myself, man. But yeah, no, I mean, I'm going

next week. So me and Russell Accord or A-Cord. I always say his last name wrong. And I didn't know it was A-Cord until I heard him in my truck. He was saying something. He said his last name. He said, A-Cord. He's like, oh, it's not a-cord. It's A-Cord. Gotcha. Anyways, ADHD. By bad. Bring it back to the other realms. But yeah, man. So it sounds like this is going to be probably an ongoing thing still to some level. We don't know if it's going to be dwindling as time goes on. Time will tell.

But it's clear to me, though, I mean, in the last two weeks since that happened, one, I feel like there's a weight that's been lifted off your shoulders. I don't want to say you seem like a new man, but you definitely seem like more lighter, not as heavy. Yeah.

And you definitely, the day I met you, you seemed very heavy. you seemed like you were you were dealing with stuff because like normally you know I'm not gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna like okay well we need to do proper procedures here you know we'll get you scheduled but bring you in

and I was like I remember I went home before like I left your place I went home and then I came in here to meet you here and I went home and I told me and I can't let this one go like like this dude seems like we need to talk and certainly it was obvious that we did. But because the attacks haven't stopped, and if I remember

correctly, I told you that when that all started going down. I think I was in the middle of telling you that this seems like it's going to be a lifelong thing and that it might be the burden to bear. I just, I find it encouraging to see you two weeks later and how it's been a lot different this time around. So, do you got anything else you want to share? I mean, I know there's a lot,

but is there anything that on the lines that we've been talking about that you want to make sure you cover in episode one? Because I'm sure we'll have you back in at some point. Maybe I'll bring some other portal jumpers with and we'll have a good roundtable. Yeah. I mean, there are horror stories from that realm. Horror stories?

Horror stories from that realm. Like, it's neutral, but it gets dark real quick. And I don't, I don't want to. like if I were to ever be in the woods in that area or like in the mountains or whatever, like the answer is no thanks.

Okay. We're not done. Sorry. No, no, it's fine. I want to hear about this. Yeah.

And for whatever reason, that reminded me to just bring up, have you ever experienced, and I'm assuming the answer is no, but it's okay if it's not. Have you ever experienced any kind of, of physical transformation while you're in these locations. Have you ever felt,

have you ever had an experience where all of a sudden you're, you physically change or you have abilities that you didn't have before, like flight or you have wings growing out your back or anything like that? I know it sounds fantastic, but we're talking about a fantastical thing already. No. So, well, I said no. So,

but I was little. I was there almost physically. It was like I was transmuted there. And it was real quick. And again, they have, like all the stuff that we have here, they have there.

I know how that sounds. I know it sounds like I watched two movies. And you know what? I do. But all this stuff predated all that crap. And then it just continued on. So I don't know what to tell whoever's, like whoever's going to,

throw mud at this thing, which is fine. But, um, so I, I know how God sees me and he has shown me how he sees me. And and this is different for everyone. And I know,

like, so this is a treasure. But, uh, I look a little different. I've got a tattered leather jacket. A, I worn

a war toward battle-hardened leather biker, like Mad Max. This isn't me like sitting down thinking, oh, this would be cool. There are Christmas lights coming out of the back. Christmas lights? Christmas lights.

I have the Shikina glory rainbow from his throne as my wings. So it's like I'm reflecting his glory. And I have a sentient flaming sword.

And it's massive. And I have a crown. And that was what was shown to me. When? Maybe eight years ago. Approximately eight to six years ago. And that's when you were taken almost physically there? No.

That was just a vision of me in the spirit. Gotcha. Or how anything else would view me if they saw me in the spirit. So that is what it is, I guess. Yeah, I don't know what to make of that. I don't know. But it sounds really cool. Sounds like I got a badass jacket and a huge freaking sword.

Yeah, what I'm picturing is like you're the opposite character of Nicholas Cage and Ghost Rider. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah. It's kind of an anti-hero. Like all of a sudden, like you enter the movie and now you're like, the one that has to take down the ghostwriter, you know? Like, okay, this got interesting, you know?

Yeah, but like the sword is like, like it's, so again, this, like, this wasn't like a trickery thing, but it's kind of like, like the, like the angels that, that essentially serve as the wheels of God's platform that he moves around in, and Ezekiel. So they're like these sentient things. It is a, it is a sentient thing. I don't wield it. like he wields it. Interesting. I just have to be obedient. That might be the key right there.

The fact that if you just said I need to be obedient and everything that's been happening might have been things trying to keep you off track of being that obedient. Other than that, no. The answer is no, I don't appear. So you don't shoot lasers out of your eyes? No.

Darn. Okay, I want to talk about some like what you, I think you referenced as horror stories. Yeah. You want to talk about demonic cannibals? Sure. Okay. You've talked about like the deep forest.

It feels like the deep forest is like the no-go and the no-go spot that like naturally I want to know what's going on there. Yeah. So I don't know, but I was close to it and I don't want to go there. And I'm not saying that like these entities that they're the net, like so like dog man,

and stuff like blah blah blah. And I'd say that they are, they are not native. Like the things that I, like the other things like they're bad things which I'm about to talk about. They're like all native to this realm. Pergatory, dark world like upside,

whatever you want to call it. Like there are bad people there too. And I do want to preface them before I lose like this thought is. So bad people here that open up portals where bad things come out. that I do not know if they come from this realm. They could be pulling from another realm. They could be pulling it from the things that are in the woods or the mountains in the realm that I was in. I do not know.

But I do want to, I do want to preface that. Okay. You're going to preface it again because I'm trying to have a hard time. You're saying bad people here is in this realm or the realm you were in? Bad people in this realm. Here. Like here in this world. The reality like, yeah.

Bad people who open up portals here. here that bring things like for the purpose of bringing things out like I'm going to open up a portal and dogman's going to come out and that's the purpose of me opening up a portal you think that happens come on man I mean I think it happens but yeah okay like they they do it themselves you know the metal door that opens the people here and then that's yeah but like but they're like you want to rip open a hole in the universe like I don't care as long as I can come over and wreak havoc like so what are you saying so what you're saying is bad people here here open portals, bring things through, those things, I eat dog man, you're not sure if dog man's

coming from where? So the realm that I was in, the upside down. Yeah. Has deep force. Has deep force. And it has its own bad stuff in it. But I've never seen it, but I've been near it. Is that where you think suggests, are you suggesting that, like, things that come through

portals to hear like dog man could be from the deep forest? I am saying that they are not native. to that place. I'm saying that they are native from somewhere else that's worse than that place. But they can, since they can traverse all realms,

like just like the spirit traps and the things that live in the spirit traps, like they can set up shop in this realm too and they would most likely do it in places like here, but just like in the Appalachian Mountains. Does that make sense? So they're like traversing realms, but they have specific places that they like to be

or they like to come out because they're not like, they're not going to come out in the middle of McDonald's. You know what I mean? Yeah. That'd be awesome if they did, though. Yeah. Would you like fries with that?

It wouldn't be awesome because the mystery's over then. Yeah, that's part of the... Yeah, that's, yeah. It's part of the thing. Like, all of a sudden, I'm out of work because they're like, dogmae. Yeah, of course dogmen exists. Like, we saw it on the news. Yeah, yeah.

McDonald's. Good. I had a thought. So this realm you're talking about. So you would say it's kind of like an in-between, like a holding place for a holding pattern where entities can come through. and they like hang out there and then they'll come through to our dimension and or maybe go through to another, you know, if there's multiple layers.

Yes. Yeah, that's exactly. That's exactly it. Okay, okay. And they just come and go as they please. Maybe they're wreak and havoc somewhere else. I think that they are coming from somewhere else. I do not think that they are native to here.

But the place that I have been, again, like in the where the inhabitants are, it's like, it's like it's purgatory. I'm not saying that purgatory exists, but it's very neutral. And if, like, if Dogman were to wreak havoc on this place, it'd be wasting its time. I know that all of this sounds insane. But, so... What's the point of Dogman being here if it's wasting his time? No, in that realm, in the upside down.

If it was wreaking havoc in the upside down, it would be wasting its time. Because it's like a, it's like a, it's like a holding place or something. And the, but like, you know, people are still eating beans or whatever, whatever it is they do there. But it's, it's like a, it's like a weird in between dark place. Not, not dark tormenting, but just in appearance. And like there's weird shit there. So if like, if you're a demonic entity. So, okay.

Here we go. If you're a demonic entity and you know that a human from a physical realm is fooling around in the upside down, wouldn't that be an easy target for you to fix? Yeah. Right? So it would make sense for them to be there for that reason because then it's like open season. Yeah, that guy? What an idiot. But like if you're, if you are intentionally going there.

Again, when I was there, it was just kind of like, like, okay, like, well, there's stuff here. And then, you know, and so it was like there was like a safety net almost. But if you like, but if you, so if you even, so if you open up a portal here, a physical, if Tony Merkel opens up a portal here and walks physically into the upside down and you are there physically, A, you will shit your pants because of all the weird stuff that is there and you won't know what to do anyway that people will see you there and go,

I don't know what you're doing here. Just like if you're dead relative walked into this room and then everyone's like, right? So like think of it like that. And then like, and then you've got all the cryptids and everything

coming to you. And it's just you. Right? like yeah like so there's like so like there's lots of back and forth and it's all crazy right and so like and you got to think like so there are like these we'll get to the demonic cannibals here in a second so so um not in a rush uh sorry i know this like it's like i know this is like i know it's no no it's literally me that i'm not in a rush like i got church at uh this uh six o'clock tonight so i got about uh oh okay so i got about 45 minutes till i have to leave okay uh or so

No, is it six. Does it start six? Yeah, it starts at six. I got about 45 minutes. Okay. I'll try, I'll try it rain back down into Earth. Yeah, I've got 40 minutes. So, where were we? Did a lot of cannibals you were going to get to in a second? Okay. I don't remember. I remember. We're talking about dog man and the open physical portal.

Going through. Yeah, going through. Yeah, I wouldn't want to do that at all, much less go anywhere else. like into another realm physically. Like, yeah, it's not going to be a pleasant experience. Like, again, so if, like, here, if you run out of gas and then you're in the middle of nowhere at night on a single pump gas station, do you feel comfortable? Yeah. Okay.

So imagine if you're that way and you're in another realm. Yeah. And then, like, you know what I mean? Like, you're toast. Let me kind of curveball that, though. Okay. And because you're speaking from your experiences. Yes.

I don't believe your experience is the same as everybody else's with this stuff. And I think you would agree with that. Yeah, it's, yeah. I can't tell you I know, just like I can't tell you, I know you're not lying to me. I don't, you know, like I don't believe you're lying to me. But in the same vein, I'll say, I know of a guy who, was recruited as a kid and he accepted it,

taught his friends how to do it. They all went to the realm physically together and had jobs there. They literally were working. Yeah. So like they weren't roaming around alone, confused, scared. Like they went there on mission.

So like, I just wanted to clarify that because what you're experiencing, I think is through the lenses of somebody who did not make that final step of acceptance. Yeah. That makes sense.

Is that my correct in saying that? Yeah, yeah, no, it totally makes sense because if you're recruited, like, yeah, totally because if you're just like willy-nilly just like end up there and then you're like, and you're in the, you're, like you're, you're, you and you're physically there. Like, yeah, it would be, uh, it would be uncomfortable. But yeah, if you're like, I mean, if you're fully given over to this to, like, if you accept the invitation and then you're going there, I mean, yeah, you can, you can go there. You can have jobs.

You can buy stuff. You can bring stuff back. I 100% believe it. Yeah, like my experience was just like, this place exists. Hey, I'm showing you that this place exists. And it affects whether anything happens. Like, let's just say there's no agenda at all. Like stuff still, like all the realms affect each other.

Yeah. I don't, I can't, I don't really know how to explain that. Like what, how I. But yeah, if you, if you accept the invitation and then you're going back and forth, like, you know, I was in a very small specific area. There's a whole friggin' world, right? So if they're going to specific places, like an underground military base in the other realm or wherever. Yeah.

You know, I didn't see any weird tech there. I'm in like, you know, BF nowhere. So, like, they're probably in like a highly constructed, like military thing that's been set up probably for about 50 years. That's exactly right. Militaristic, extreme. Yeah, extreme militaristic. In fact,

the guy I was just referencing to you about has never been on the show. He knows who I am. I hope one day he chooses to talk to me. I've reached out to him. But there was another guy on the show. I just looked up,

episode 646, taken to other realms. Similar situation. Yeah, yeah. But his was interesting. I don't know if I said it on the show or afterwards, but I told him,

I said I had a feeling he was going to have there was going to be a little bit of a blowback for him talking to me. And sure enough, turns out, oh, yeah, big time. Really? Yeah. And it kind of falls in line with another guy who talked to me on the show years ago. But his girlfriend that he was living with was diagnosed multiple personality. I don't think it was that.

Because when her altar found out that she was going to be talking to me, it forbid it. And so I just talked to him. So there is a definite tug of war that we experienced on those episodes with what we experienced with you last time here. And these other realms and these other entities talk to me about the cannibalistic demons or whatever. It's just like, so just like here, you know, there are weird people in the hills sometimes. It's the same thing there. Definitely here. Definitely here.

Don't go to need. Anybody local or anybody from a far visiting? If you see a sign that says Nebo Mountain, just keep driving. Don't go to Nebula. I'm not cast in Spursion on Hill folk, man. They've got like those people are awesome. No, no, but this is a different. There is a guy that even email that he, I guess, I don't know if he grew up on Nebo Mountain or his family's there, but he's like, no, you're right.

It's a tough town. Like up there, police don't even go up there. So it's wild. Yeah. So, again, I'm just there. Go to sleep. I'm just there.

This is in the middle of nowhere. Like, imagine the middle of nowhere, Tennessee. You're in the back, like whatever. The backwoods. So you've got like, so this place probably had, this is probably 40 acres and then a woodline. And it's a cabin. I'm just in the cabin.

And they know I'm there. And they, it's this family. It is a family. and they are demonic, 100% like demonic, but they are like physical people. And they are actively looking for me. I was just stuck there, hiding. Like, dear God, like, why am I here?

Get me out of here now. The whole place was crazy heavy with evil. Like you could almost eat it with a spoon. And they are tearing the house apart trying to find me because I'm not like, hey, I'm there. I'm not like, I just ended up in their house and they know I'm that, they know, like, something that isn't supposed to be there is there and they're looking for it. And when they do, I rip me apart and eat me.

And it is this overwhelming sense that this is going to happen. It's happened twice. And it's same family. And both times I get out and I get out on the acreage and there is a wood line and it's like I either go to the wood line or I'm running through 40 acres or who knows where it's going to take me. And they do not leave the house. And then I end up waking up and I'm like just covered in sweat. I'm freaking out. The, so the woodline seemed absolutely more terrifying than them.

So there's no way in hell. If I, like, unless I just, like, end up there. No way. There's no way. I have one more story from this realm. And it's the worst. I am in a bombed out area. It looks like

you know the recent footage from like in the Middle East everything's like super bombed or like the Ukraine like everything's super bombed out and I'm there like in the spirit I was just looking around

there's nothing there. There's no people no entities, nothing. It's a whole bombed out city and it's in this realm and same feeling everything. And I was just looking around. And all of a sudden this pike, it was about that big around, pointing on both ends,

completely metal. It's like a pike through my back and out through my heart. Something just completely spears me. And it's a dude and a trench, like in a, in a, in a, tan overcoat, like from the 80s, like a businessman's,

and he's got a fedora, and it's like he's a silhouette. It's not a demon. I'm going to say shadow person, but it's not like how, like, you know, we talk about shadow people. It's not like this. It was actually, it was a super, like,

the feeling was, this was a neutral thing. It was like a government guy on the side of the road picking up trash. That is 100% like what, like what it felt like its job was to pick up things that weren't supposed to be there. And what it did, so it speared me through my chest, out through my heart, and then it pulled out this black obelisk.

It was about the size of a basketball. And it opened up this hole about that big. And it was a hole to hell. And these super long black arms with these like massive palms and black fingers started pulling me off the pike. And I could feel the suction and the eternity of hell. It was literally a trash shoot to hell

for lost souls. And he was just like, picking up trash. Like, oh, there's one. Pike. And they like pulls out this thing. It opens up. Like it's like a Thursday afternoon for this thing. And then these two hands come out of nowhere.

and pull me off of this pike, and this voice said, no, this one's mine. And then sets me aside. And then I wake up. It was terrifying. Hell, you want to join the enemy? Go right ahead. You want to have magical powers and sleep with a bunch of women, open up portals and get experimented on the government or be a part of it.

You want to create this kind of dogman or this chimera. You want to do all this crap? go right ahead because I already know who's going to win and the eternity and pull of hell is something that you cannot escape is so overwhelmingly black and supernatural

and like and I felt it I felt the insatiable desire of hell's maw like sucking me in and like it was super nonchalant

no this one's mine I woke up screaming, like crying. Like, I don't want to like, I was like, I was swearing. And I could feel the hole in my heart and like through my back for a day. So if you're traversing these areas physical or otherwise, I would caution against it, especially you're like neutral. But if you're like doing it nefarious and you're giving over to this thing, like, hell, is very real and it is not fun.

You brought up the portal idea to hell. And I've heard plenty of stories of other people having near-death experiences. I hate that phrase. You died. You died and you came back. So it wasn't a near-death. No, you deft. Like, that happened.

But they have these experiences and they come back and they talk. about it and it's terrifying. It's hard to get around that aspect of it in a sense that like the sheer amount of people who have died and come back to life to talk about what they've seen. I don't know how to get around that. I mean, we could probably start a whole new podcast to just people's near-death experience, NDE's, and every week come out of the new episode of somebody talking about what they saw the other side.

Yeah. And often, not every time, but often, it sounds terrifying. And I think it feels like it's a, it's a level of fear and dread that is not, there's no words for. You know, we, we did a, a trip, our last trip that we went on and pulled. And part of it was this idea that mechanically there could be a way to open portals. And jury's still out whether it worked or not.

We heard some weird things, but it was through frequencies, a mechanical device of frequencies. And it was one of those moments where going into it, you don't really, maybe you're just not thinking clearly or, or whatnot, or maybe you're thinking there's nothing, we're not doing, it's just mechanics. Yeah, yeah. But hindsight, looking back, I can comfortably say, I'm never going to do that again.

There's a difference between accidentally stumbling across a portal and saying, hey, if we turn this knob and this knob, what happens? Yeah. And I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't want to, you know, spoil anything or whatever, but I think that a lot of this stuff needs to be treaded carefully for everybody. And what you're just described today and stuff, I think is prime example of that because you're in it and you're not willingly being, choosing to be in these things. and you're here to say it ain't fun and I've experienced it with you like two weeks ago

that wasn't fun didn't really care for that you know yeah so I think that's a good way to wind things down we could journey through the idea of the

deep mystical force and the other realm let me ask you this one more question because it's something that I was thinking about while you're talking and just hit me now. The family that you went into their house they knew you were there.

Clearly by the way you were saying it was like the ghost realm kind of thing where it's like physical for them you were the ghost there. They knew you were there. They were trying to find you. You had the sense that they were going to eat you if they found you. They couldn't leave the house

because there's two questions here. One, have you come across people, like whatever they were, people that were not tied to specific locations? They were moving freely about seemingly at least. And bouncing off that is it possible that in that realm their physical is our spiritual and what you perceived as a demonic family in the upside down, are they all the same? The people that you're encountering there, are they all in that vein?

Whether you had the experience, you had that violent experience with them, but could it be that your interactions with others, if you had any, maybe not as violent, but they all stem from the same origin? So the people and the entities, the other just, they and other just neutral, like, people like you and me, it's like what, it's like normal folk, like the normal inhabitants there.

They're just, they're doing stuff like you and me are doing. So there was a visual difference between the, quote unquote, normal people there and the family that you encountered? Yeah, they were bigger. They were like, they were like they were big. They were big. Okay. But they weren't giants. They were very large, almost like cartoonishly large.

And so like kind of exaggerated sort of like like a like depictions, like ancient depictions of demons. But they were like in like the, you know, like the single strap like like hobo. attire, had knives. And again, like, I can't, like, talk or, like, interact with the inhabitants. But there, I had seen, I'd seen people in, so I have always seen, like, what my, of what I can remember, it has always been people in buildings. I've always like, but, and they're just working or eating. I have not seen any, from what I can remember, of people walking around the streets other than that thing that piked me through my back.

And it was out and about doing its job. But there was no sense of, so here's what I, so here's what I think. This is, well, this is my speculation. Let's just say that. Like how demons mess with people here. They mess with things there. So they can possess things there. I think the people, the demonic family, I think were, they were a, so like it's not just like humans that are there.

They're like humanoid things there. They have like weird heads. Like if you think of like, you know, like the anewy. or something like that. They weren't anubis, but things such as. So they're like, it was like a specific species of thing that was humanoid, that was demonically possessed. Does that make sense?

Yeah. As much as he can. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it makes perfect sense.

Yeah, of, you know, study that in elementary school. Yeah. Is it like the idea of like the sinus cephali, you know, like the dog-headed people? Yeah. Yeah. something like that. Yeah, yeah, very, very much. Yeah, it's very like, and there, it's, there, it isn't, they are fully integrated, but you

don't see them everywhere. But they, but they're, but they're, but they are integrated. It's just like, and no, and it's just like, yeah, there's chat. Chet. Pull that out of the bag. Yeah, he's just buying some free dos, or whatever. He wasn't like, no one did that there. I just imagine these like, like, brat boys.

Yo, chat, yeah, Brad, let's get some Cheetos. Well, boys, this was a draining conversation. I feel like that after conversations. You ever feel like you're just exhausted. Yeah, you take a nap. Yeah, yeah. And that's why like sometimes I'm doing the show. and it's like, I, there we go.

I saw the light wasn't on. I was like, what's going on? I was like, did he fall asleep over there? No, but sometimes I'm doing recordings remotely, and, you know, you're getting pulled in, and it's like you're getting pulled in through the screen into somebody's life, and it's exhausting, it's draining. And that's how I feel right now.

I feel tired, very tired. And I got skunks on my property. have to take care of. Anyways, listen, I appreciate you coming back in and giving me a round too. It was completely up to you. Just officially for people to know, I did not bend your arm to come in here. I was perfectly fine with you saying, I don't want to do that again. That's fine.

So I do appreciate you coming in and giving it a part two here. And Jason, thanks for hopping in and just sitting in on the conversation. And, you know, being here, my body guard. Thanks for having them. Yeah. All right. Let's get out of here. Cool. Well, that's the show, everybody. I really hope you enjoyed it. If you did enjoy it, please share the show with your friends. I don't care where or how you share the show. Just share the show. If you enjoyed it, that's the best thing you can do to help the show grow. Share the show. And just remember, friends, the elites don't want you to know this, but you could just convert to Christianity and live forever. See you. I'm