The Confessionals - RELOADED | 841: The Hidden War Inside Disclosure

Episode Date: September 14, 2026

Nathaniel Gillis returns to the studio for a mind-bending conversation that tears apart the modern UFO narrative and reframes the phenomenon from the ground up. Drawing from occult history, demonology, biblical scholarship, and firsthand research, Nathaniel argues that what we are seeing may not be extraterrestrial at all, but something far older, capable of manipulating perception, projecting forms, and hiding behind masks humanity has mythologized for centuries. From orbs that shift into apparitions, to physiological “constructs,” to ancient necromancy and Ezekiel’s warning about those who “hunt the souls of men,” this discussion explores the possibility that disclosure is being carefully curated while the deeper esoteric reality remains hidden. They wrestle with initiation rituals, hybridism, apports, sigils, government secrecy, and the unsettling idea that the phenomenon may replicate reality itself to anchor into our world. If true, this isn’t just about UFOs, it’s about a spiritual war that predates modern language and continues behind the veil.Please pray for Tony's wife, Lindsay, as she battles breast cancer. Your prayers make a difference!If you’re able, consider helping the Merkel family with medical expenses by donating to Lindsay’s GoFundMe: https://gofund.me/b8f76890Become a member for ad-free listening, extra shows, and exclusive access to our social media app: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinThe Confessionals Social Network App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZThe Counter Series Available NOW:The Counter (YouTube): WATCH HEREThe Counter (Full Episode): WATCH HERETony's Recommended Reads: slingshotlibrary.comIf you want to learn about Jesus and what it means to be saved: Click HereBigfoot: The Journey To Belief: Stream HereThe Meadow Project: Stream HereMerkel Media Apparel: merkmerch.comMy New YouTube ChannelMerkel IRL: @merkelIRLMy First Sermon: Unseen BattlesSPONSORSSIMPLISAFE TODAY: simplisafe.com/confessionalsGHOSTBED: GhostBed.com/tonyQUINCE: quince.com/tonyCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] Gillis:Instagram | ParasymposiaMAILING ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/theconfessionals/Discord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelProduced by: @jack_theproducerOUTRO MUSICJoel Thomas - ImposterYouTube | Apple Music | Spotify

Merkel Media I guess it's time to go back in time Are you telling me you built a time machine Kind of a Dolion Time is but a stubborn

illusion I have a lot of memories Of the past People are time traveling Within themselves Time travel Is possible This was all circulating

around the base that a giant had been killed but no one was supposed to talk about it i saw three long bony fingers reach up underneath the door curl up to grab it and then disappear when he came over to me dude he slithered over to me and he starts running and firing at this giant with a giant move he's got a spear and spears dan holds him holds him like this. Somebody else. Shoot them in the face. Shoot him in the face.

They basically decapitated. Got about 15 yards away from me. I raised that 12 days and I blow this head off. I feel something pulling at my leg and I look over and there are two small gray in the teeth.

And they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed. I reached my hand into this bush and I touch air. Couldn't breathe and I couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster. here. Okay, I reload it. Welcome to the show, everybody. You're listening to The Confessionals Podcast.

I'm your host, Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here. If you got something you want to contribute to the show, go ahead and shoot us an email. Our email address is contact at theconfessionalspodcast.com. That's contact at the confessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, theconfessionalspodcast.com. Hit the contact section, and you can reach me that way as well. Otherwise, for me, just get a hold of me.

If you want more shows on a weekly basis, we got you covered. All you got to do is go to the confessionalspodcast.com slash join. become a member. You get access to all the extra episodes we've ever done, all the ones we'll ever do. Write on the Confessionals members app. You download it through Google Play Store or the Apple App Store, and you can get access to the social media network that was custom designed for the Confessionals members. It is a social media app that we house our member episodes on. Go ahead and check it out, the confessionalspodcast.com slash join. And check out MerkMurch.com and Merkelfilms.com. Merk merch is where you get your merchandise that we offer, the Confessionals merch.

And also Merkelfilms.com is where you get your on demand streaming. We do documentaries. We have documentaries on there. We have docu-series on there. Go ahead and check it out,merklefilms.com. Friends, I am going to be in Alabama at the Big Picture Prophecy Conference on March 27th. I will be speaking on stage with Joseph Z. Alan Adio, Paul Begley, and Larry and Sandy Raglan.

go ahead and check it out. Prophecy Conference 26.com. Get your tickets there. Use promo code Tony for a significant discount. All right, friends, today we have Nathaniel Gillis coming on the show, and we're asking the question, are we studying the phenomenon or the mask that it's choosing to wear? In this conversation, we dive into the unsettling possibility that UFOs, orbs, and apparitions may all be interferences, projections from a deeper intelligence hiding in plain sight. We explore the growing tension inside the disclosure movement and whether the esoteric, occult layer of the phenomenon is being intentionally filtered from the public. If what we're seeing isn't the source but a carefully chosen manifestation, then the real question becomes who or what is behind the curtain. Let's get to

Nathaniel right now. All right, today we got Nathaniel Gillis back in studio. This is the second time in studio, third time in the show. How are you doing, man? I'm doing very well. It's great to be here, Tony, and I'm enjoying my stay here in Maryville. It's a beautiful town. I had my Bernie burger last night, which I was very thrilled to have.

Was it a home run? Oh, man, yeah. It was really, really good. So I'm glad to be here and excited to discuss the research with you. Yeah, man. What's really cool about you is you have family. not far from here. So it's convenient for you to just, you know, swing by when you're visiting family and hang

out for a little bit. So I'm glad you're here. Before we get into topics and stuff, I, dude, let's just, I want to talk about some of the stuff you were talking about before here with the pastor. Yeah. What was his name? Husse Shear. Huss Shear.

And, um, dude, so he, tell this story again about the guy who he basically muted. That was a while. He, so he was a prophet and Hachir was. Hachir was. Okay. His gifting within Pentecostalism was unmatched. And he would, okay, so here's his background. He was a businessman.

He owned a company in Texarkana, Texas. And he was in school and college. And he is going to play. volleyball. This is the 30s, I think. Play volleyball one night. And in the background, he hears a man crying and he goes in this room and it's a man named herbal bean. He's praying. And Hush your look, sediments says, you know, what are you doing? We're supposed to be in college. I'm going to have my own business. Right. My father owns a business. I'm a businessman. You're a businessman. What are you doing? And verbal being said, well, I'm following the call of God in my life. And I think you

should to. And so from that moment on, Hushir would tithe his day in prayer. So he would get up at 7 a.m. And by 11 or 12, he had already tithed his prayer to God. So he would fast every six months. He would fast. He would fast

30 days. Water fast. sometimes, sometimes nothing at all. He would build his body back up afterwards and then fast again. And he taught a philosophy, and I hate to use that word because he's a Greek philosophy. His philosophy regarding the unction was that, yes, you have the faith, but do you have the consecration? And so in his ministry, that's the, this is the whole point we're talking about is because that's where I cut my teeth on the supernatural. That's how I got introduced to this other reality that seemingly exists around us is by going to that church and experiencing his ministry. I mean, we're talking about an individual who he had a man in his church that said, you know, my wife doesn't believe her.

She doesn't believe in anything. He's completely atheist. And I don't know what to do with her because she, I wanted to come to church, but she doesn't believe in any of it. And so Hashir looks at her and said, okay, tell her not to be afraid. He said, be afraid of what, pastor? He said, because God's going to send a visit her to her house tonight, your house tonight. And sure enough, three in the morning, she wakes up and there's a person standing at the foot of her bed. He was just incredible, but one of the most amazing stories about his ministry, of course,

were miracles, prophecies. He was mentoring a guy named Jonathan Tzuber. which was my favorite minister of all time, at least. What was his name? Jonathan Super. Super. You ought to have him on the show. He's incredible.

But when he came to our conference back in the 90s, he would, again, there was a technique that verbal being would use when he would teach ministers, where he would wait on God. He would wait on the angelic manifestation to show up. And when it did, there would be an anointing that would accompany it. And so verbal being would wait for two hours sometimes in his services. people would get frustrated and leave, and then the anointing would sleep in, just slip in.

And then people would get healed and deliver. Well, that's what Super would do at the after Easter feast to date in Ohio. Super would get up there and he would just be talking. And then out of nowhere, even some of the tapes I have of him, you could just feel it.

And it's like, oh no. And then things just started happening. The service is just, he's not going to preach. It's over. Well, Jonathan Subur was mentor by her share. When Jonathan Subur was,

about 22 years old, he was invited by Hushar to preach revival in Dayton, Ohio. And Suber was as innocent as they come, right? He's very green behind the ears. He is, and I'm going to say it like this, kind of there was this conviction, but there was also this fear of Hushir because Shere would go into revivals and say, I smell roses. And things would happen in that church. People would just, it was really crazy. But anyway, so one day, Hushir was called up Jonathan Subra, said, Jonathan, are you at the hotel?

Yes, I am. Okay. Well, get dressed. We're going to go to the mall. I'm going to buy you some shoes because you owned a shoe store. I shared it. And so they're in the mall. And this is back in the 90s when they had pay phones.

And as they're walking, someone calls the pay phone. They're walking right next to it. Hushir looks at Jonathan and goes in here. Again, if you want to test the maturity of a gift, there's no shaking, there's no nervousness. It was just like, oh, I do this every day, but I just want to show you my life. And so he goes, okay, Jonathan, stop right there. He picks up the phone. Is this Rebecca?

Yes. Okay. God just had you call this phone by accident. I am, and he's talking to her just as fluid as I am or trying to be as fluid as I am with my ADHD. right now. But is this Rebecca? Yes, it is okay. This is Hush here. I pastor a church in Dayton, Ohio. You just called a pay phone by accident. I perceive the Holy Ghost that you have some pills set aside to your left side on the table. Am I correct? Yes, okay. You're going to see your children off to your mother-in-law tonight, aren't you? Yes. Okay. You're going to do something and make a very, very bad decision. You've been after a lot of stress financially and

emotionally, that man should have never left you, goes in ministering her, and she is wigging out. He takes the phone and puts it to Jonathan Subur's ear, and then he puts the phone back up to his ear, hush, here, and he goes, okay, I perceive in the Holy Ghost that you were in Texas. Yes, okay, right around the corner from you, approximately about a mile to your left, he goes to the pastor's name. That's one of my dearest friends in the world. He'll be in it. That's the kind of guy you was. Holy cow. And that is really how I cut my teeth in the phenomenon.

That's what really got me inspired to understand the nuances and the many aspects of our reality. And what's so crazy about my background is while I'm experiencing that, I'm going home to a haunted house. And in my little mind, I'm trying to put everything together, and a lot of it did make sense. Some of it did. But make no mistake that there is something out there. There's a good side and there's a bad side. And just as Hushier had his gifts, there are other people out there that kind of are counterweights to the prophetic.

Yeah. And people don't realize that enough because even in my research just the other day, I was due to be on another podcast. And I woke up that day, felt very strange. And I began to get into Alan Greenfield's research. He's an occultist and an author and how he was linking Lamash to and the Eshtar command to demonology. and his research said, look, regardless of your tradition, these are the same ancient entities that we're experiencing right now in 2025. It's not a figment of our imagination.

And in the middle of that research, my blood pressure spiked to 278 over 149, I had to go to the hospital. I'm in the hospital of the running tests, running tests, and I had to I DM the host of the show I was due on that night and I had to kind of explain everything

was going on. Like look, we don't know what's going on right now. I'm getting MRI done. They're looking for organ damage because of my blood pressure. And he told me, and he had screenshot it, the threat. And it was from a known occultist. And this message said that we are under the understanding that you are

having Nathaniel Gillis on your show tonight. What we are going to do is perform a ritual so that he will not make it to the show. And I had no idea. I just felt it happen at my house. So there I am, like literally, I was kind of scared because I'm under the gun here. And I know I made some connections with the research. But my point is that stuff's real. And just as such sure was as gifted, there are people out there.

that are also working with another power that have abilities as well. But that's where I got my first introduction of the supernatural was walking into the back of a church and you could feel it in the air. The air. And then you would have super come down. And these guys, again, it's like,

it's like Hashir said, yeah, you have the faith. But they had the consecration to, hours and hours, hours. where there was so sensitive. Hushier said, in any cases like that, I'll give you one of the most profound cases. It was mind-blowing to me, even as a 37-year-old today. He had a gentleman that he had been working with

who was in an addiction counseling, and he had overdosed. And his testimony was that he was in the ambulance and he felt himself slip out of his body, descending down into darkness. and he said, I felt hands hitting me and shrill voices saying, we've got them, we've got him. He said, I was out of my body. Who was this?

This was a person that was in addiction counseling at the church working with Hushier. So he was working at the church with Hashir? Yes, yeah, yeah. And he was, he's an addict. I don't know if I could say that, but yeah. And he was trying to get out of it and everything. Well, he overdosed. He's in the ambulance.

out of his body, he's out of his body. And he's like, man, I'm just descending into darkness. I thought it's over. That's when he heard Hashir's voice. This is, I don't even understand this. Break through all of it. And said, I said, the name of Jesus, let him go. Did Hashir know what was going on?

He felt to his knees and prayed for that guy. So was it like the Holy Spirit telling him right now? Yes. Two different places. Yes. And the guy, his testimony was he comes back into his body. in the ambulance as they're working on them. So my earliest passion was, I want that. Yeah.

Yeah. I want that. Yeah. And I'll do anything, you know, anything I can to get that in my life. But that, again, I hate to be the dead horse here, guys. But that was my very first introduction to supernatural. And I followed it. I followed angelology, studied angelology for a long time.

And he worked a lot with angels, had a lot of, of manifestations. And that's what got me into the field of the paranormal because I realized, like, this stuff is real. Yeah. It's real stuff. You know, I, when I was a kid growing up, I grew up Pentecostal as well. And it's interesting because I'm hearing you talk about this, I don't know if I've ever

connected to dots, because I've always been passionate about the supernatural. I didn't have the vocabulary for it. I didn't call it supernatural. I didn't really understand. what the trigger was, but there was something that was always triggering me with the stories. But I grew up hearing about supernatural stories that other people experienced. And I think that has always been a lifelong driving factor of just, I hear these stories and I want to hear more. Yeah. Because it's just like, because I believe it, because I, and I talk about the broken record,

I stayed on the show all the time. Like, I cut my teeth with my grandfather telling me stories of the supernatural of what he saw God do through prayer, through him. And so it's like, I believe this. And I just want to hear more of these miraculous things happening. And, you know, I'm starting to connect some things here. And I'm thinking, I think the big driving force for me was the fact that I never actually saw with my own eyes.

But people around me that I trusted and loved told me what they saw. And maybe the lifelong pursuit, maybe the underlying pursuit of even the documentary stuff that we were doing, and we still are just differently, it was this, I got to see it. Yeah. And I want to show the world. I believe this is real. I want to see it. And I want to show the world that this is real.

And to be honest with you, I'm going to have stage in my life where I really feel God opening up another chapter. Not that this show and what I do here is closing, but adding to the plate of tasks. And I do believe that because I've seen things, I've experienced things, but I think, I think guys has more consistency on the agenda with the experiential side of it. And I'm not talking about anybody tuning in that may not be familiar with me. I'm not talking about going to somebody's house and do ghostbuster stuff and, and, you know, try to, you know, I cast. But I think more of the redemptive side of it, the miraculous, like the hand of God moving. Like, it's easy.

Like, we, we document it all the time. You can document the inversion of it. You can document the negative side of it. people talk about it all time. You have tons of people out there pursuing it, but the redemptive side of it, the miraculous,

there's a lot of people out there that are called charlatans when it comes to this. And I'm not name-dropping any of them because I don't get caught in that because I don't know who's who, and that's between them and God. And I'm not naive to the fact that it doesn't matter how long I've been

doing this show and trying to build up a public reputation of somebody who I tell people I've never seen Bigfoot. I've never, if I've seen something, I'll tell you. If I've never seen it, I'll tell you. If I've experienced something like an invisible force charging me in the middle of woods, I'll tell you, which happened. And my hope is that if God does open that next chapter, it's just a sense right now. And I've had some prophetic words over me to confirm the sensing. but if God does open that up and I start seeing more redemptive,

miraculous things happening around me, God willing, through me, my hope would be that people would be like, he's got a track record where he doesn't lie about this kind of stuff. But at the end of the day, there will always be somebody who says he's lying, he's faking it, whatever, you know? There's a lot of them, man.

Not to what you personally, I'm just saying there's a lot of people out there that, you know, let's just put it out there. you know, like they're not doing research. They think that, well, they just have opinions and not understanding the work that goes on to do this stuff. You know, like even I was talking about buddy Steve the other day and it's the research itself is self-funded. You know, like, okay, I want to go, if we're independent research, like, I want to go and investigate this case study. Okay, well, that takes your money, your gas.

You got to buy that book. You got to do the research. Yeah. And then some people are like, well, okay. I want all of that. And, you know, and that's fine. I love it. So what we're doing right now.

My point, though, is you're exactly right in the sense that there is an untapped, I guess, resource of the paranormal, I guess paranormal in the church. One thing that I would love to see in the field is somebody going out and actually interviewing these people. Yes. You know what I mean? And saying, okay, we were in the church service and we have technology. we want to see that.

It's recording, right? Because what's happening now is a lot of people have in their minds where, yeah, that's one thing. This is completely different. We have energy signatures here. You know what I mean? So I think that's a relevant pursuit. I just think that people need to realize that this stuff comes with a heavy price. You know what I mean?

I mean, I had no intention to be in the ER. I had to go to a cardiologist afterwards and get an echocardiogram and waiting on the results. And it's just unfortunate that in order to get access to the research, the deeper depths of the phenomenon, it comes at a price. So let's dissect that a little bit. First of all, I would like to say I have a feeling that's not the first time you've been attacked like that. No. But let's lay out the logistics for people because I have a sense of how that whole thing played out, but it's probably good to explore. the occultists that sent that message.

One, I would say that there's the inversion, right? And I'm not 100% on this, but I lean towards this feeling of people who seem to have special abilities and is being used in those kind of fashions. I'm really strongly starting to consider and wonder how consistent the storyline is that people like that have these natural giftings and the enemy has taken it and hijacked it. Oh, yeah. But, and so basically the enemy got to them before God, or they discovered what God has done for them.

But let me ask you this. Mm-hmm. The occultists that were doing this, had they know you were going on that show. Do you have any idea? So this particular host puts up a graphic on social media. Gotcha. I think maybe a week before or something, and then they got a hold of it. And next thing you know, I'm having heart palpitations.

Gotcha. So it's not the first time, you know, it's happened two times before. The first time is I got too close was. was when I didn't have the mentorship that I have now. You know, I have people that have been in the field longer than I've been alive studying this aspect of the phenomenon. And this phenomenon has been in their homes. But one guy had a new security system put in,

and he got a phone call from the company. We just had somebody trip an alarm. Nobody's in my house. It's just me. No, it's going off. They're on the phone with them, Tony. Well, who is that person behind you? Yeah.

Nobody's here. I promise you, I'm looking up at the camera. No, somebody's behind you. you either you're lying to us or you don't know you're you are not safe so that's happened um but the first time it happened to me was i was researching um infant magic in mesopotamia and how it has to do with hybridism and um i just felt it immediately felt it and i called my dad and i said okay i got to get out of here i'm going to go to rhode island go to federal hill and eat a lot of italian food and just try to disconnect from the phenomenon um i know i got some insights to

revelations, but it comes at a cost. So about a few hours later, I think it was. I got two different emails, two different experiencers. Both were working with guides. Both of them said, my guide wants to tell you that it'll be waiting for you when you die. Wow. And so that was the first. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Two different experiences. Now, the second encounter was really, it unnerved me too. But it had to do with an experiencer that had been working with Dr. Turner back in the 90s before she passed away. And he had been sharing my research with co-workers, members of his family. And it was really cool. You know, we had a lot of deep conversations about the phenomenon. Well, I'm out to dinner with my family, just enjoying my evening.

And he messages me frantic, like really, really worked up. Like, what's going on? And calm down. He's like, no, Nathaniel. He said last night, because he was in England, I believe. He's like, last night. He goes, I woke up. A voice had came to me and told me it was just like the old abductions.

Stop looking at Nathaniel Gillis. Stop, stop promoting his research. Leave him alone. And that's how I knew I got too close. That's three times now. I don't know if it's third, third times the charm. Clearly not. You're sitting here.

Yeah, I'm getting my echocardiogram results. Hopefully today. It's been a minute since I went and got it. But like I said, you know, I get a lot of emails from people that, a lot of them are very encouraging. Some of them are just very, it's interesting, critical. Like, well, you don't, you didn't say A, B, and C, and I wanted you to say A, B, and C. And it's like, okay, I get that.

I, you know, I wish I could say everything at one time for everybody. Yeah. So, you know, you're going to please some people. You're going to push some other people away. The point, though, is the research has to be done. And not everybody's in for it. Like, not everybody can handle it. And not everybody has a time.

And so I believe this is what I'm supposed to be doing, drawing attention to the darker aspects of the phenomenon, and pointing my finger and say, look, you know, not everything that looks like a ball of light is an angel. Right? To look at the elephants in the room and pull it out and say, okay, we got to inspect this closer and look at it in analysis and say, okay, analytically speaking, what are we dealing with? Get out of the dogma and get into the data. And there's a lot of dogma in the paranormal field. So my point here is that, yeah, it does come at a cost, but it's the encouragement I get from people that are like, look, I've never even thought about that.

But that fits, you know, especially one of my heroes being Dr. Collar Turner, when former experiences, right, that worked with her come to me and say, hey, listen, you know, she would have loved your work or, you know, you're adding more value to my experiences. it's worth it on. It really is. So the phenomena that your research, first, let me just say this.

I think there needs to be an understanding that not everybody can do everything, right? Yeah. So I've, and I had across this road myself, I cannot pull off this production, this show, do what I do and pretend to be able to research like you. And for a long time, I had to fight this imposter syndrome because I felt like I need to be researching more.

And it's like, bro, your job is to host those who do research, those who had the experiences, who have things to say. My job is to host conversation. It's not to say I shouldn't look into things. But I used to wear this, like, it was just this, like, weight on my shoulders of just like, I am not matching the energy of a Nathaniel Gillis or a Timothy Alberino, and people who, you know, do all this heavy research. And I should be doing that too.

And it's like, one, God creates us all uniquely. And my brain does not work like your brain does. I admire people like you. That's a good thing, man. I got ADHD. and I'm like, I'm so scattered brains sometimes. It's unreal. Well, we're in the same boat there. Yeah, we are.

I admire people who they're uniquely created to be able to do this deep dive research. And you're clearly one of those people. And so I kind of just wanted to put that out there because I think there is a difference between, you know, we're all in the same field. Like, we're on the same team, but we have different jobs. It's like a body having different jobs, right? And you brought up the orb idea. And that's something that needs to be pulled out a little bit because when I started this show,

you know, I came heavy from the Bigfoot world and those conversations. But one of the things that me and Wes from Sasquatch Chronicles to talk a lot about, he talks about it on the show. He used to at least here and there. but we would talk about a lot was this idea that orbs popping up on properties that people are having big foot encounters with. And that seems to be a contradiction to people saying

orbs are angels. Oh, there is a lot of contradictions. And I do have a series of photographs that I'll be sitting to your producer so your audience can actually see what I'm talking about. But whatever we're dealing with, they are not the result of a mindless, unguided process.

whatever these balls of light are, they're interreligious and cross-cultural. They're not just in Bigfoot research. They're in malevolent hauntings. They're not just in malevolent hauntings. They're in eunophology. They're not just in eunophology. They're in near-death experiences.

And the problem we're having now on the field is that we're allowing people to just strictly define what they are without really giving you the broad scope of phenomenology behind their presence. If that's an angel, we have a problem. Because a lot of UFOs that were witnessing, even in Skywatcher, are actually the physiological construct, an object created, projected from the orb.

Where in the Bible is an angel projecting a physiological construct? It's not there. not there. And so to get into these case studies, number one, the assumption is that they're all love and light. That's absolutely not true. And what we're seeing now is the compartmentalization. And I've word against this since the dawn of my career, the compartmentalization of the phenomenon where UFO conferences aren't, they're not talking about hauntology. They're not saying, hey, by the way, these orbs are actually hurting people in hauntings. They're kind of classified. in within this one carefully curated narrative,

not allowing us researchers or especially experiencers to look at the metascope of it, the broad scope of it. It's okay, they're everywhere, but really what are they? And so when you get down to what they are, we have to look at what they can do. And so we're going to go through some of the pathology,

if we may. Oh, please. One of my dearest friends in the world, he's dead now, unfortunately. He's passed on, but his name was Dr. Michael Lange. He was the predecessor to the real ghost hunter show. Okay.

He didn't have his own TV show. I didn't want one. But he, uh, he was one of the very first ghost hunters. And he was telling me, oh, two or three years ago about a case study he had where he was investigating this haunting and they were seeing these corpuscular balls of light floating. And they would respond to thought, they would respond to, to verbal annunciations, all of that. And he said at the time, they were seeing them on camera and off camera and that they had a former special forces operator there. And this orb had went into his body.

And he said, I could feel it in my skin. It's inside of my body right now. Dr. Lynch, what am I going to do? And they're watching it. They couldn't control it. Obviously, they're like, okay, we don't know. We're just going to document the evidence. Well, next thing you know, he's sliding up.

the wall and he's being choked and he says, I could feel a hand around my neck. And he's being choked. Well, as they're watching this happen, they start to see a handprint around his neck where the end he was actually choking him. And so finally, the ball of light leaves, he's got burn marks scratches, bruises on his body. The very end of the investigation, Dr. Lynch, he is, putting his equipment up and his trunk of his car. And he looks down and he realizes,

he's like Nathaniel, and he goes, I had just purchased a laser thermometer from eBay. And he said, I was looking for a chance to use it in the field. He said, so sure enough, he goes,

I look out and he's like, by the way, it's nighttime. He's like, so imagine this. He said, all of a sudden, one of those big orbs about this big, flies out of the house into the alleyway across the street. He said,

And I'm thinking, this is my shot. So he goes and he gets the laser thermometer and he starts to shoot it, this ball of light. He said, finally, he said, I hit it. He said, and I was expecting, he's like, I just saw this go through a wall in the house. I'm expecting this light to just go right through the orb. And he's like it did not happen like that. The light refracted off of it. And then it disappeared into the home.

I can go into Dr. Barry Taft's case study in San Pedro Bay, California. I think it's San Pedro Bay. Before you go into that, what was his, did he have any conclusions as to why it refracted off the orb? So this is what's called the paraphysicality model that Dr. John Keel proposed. It's paraphysical. And we're still trying to understand this as researchers. but these entities can materialize and dematerialize at will. Go in and out of bodies.

And they have a lot of capabilities. It's really fascinating stuff, to be honest with you. But he didn't understand it. We still don't. I mean, to solidify, desolidify. Yeah. It's still there. It's just changing its properties.

Which we don't understand. Which we do not understand. Gotcha. So moving further, Dr. Barry Taff had a case study in San Pedro, California. with Jackie Hernandez. This was another case where these corpuscular balls of light were witnessed. Now, these balls of light were much larger. They're about the size of a basketball.

Wow. And there's photographic evidence of this as well. And they were self-illuminating. They're moving through the house, through bodies. In matter of fact, they had actually cornered one of these balls of light in a room. and it's sending all these, these, this, this kind of frequencies, and energy signatures, all that.

And out of nowhere it goes, pop. And he said, I didn't realize what happened. He said, I just remembered that all of my research team was like four people in the room with them, hit the ground, fainted, boom. He said, now I'm the only one staring at this thing. It's no longer a ball of light, Tony. It's actually an apparition. It's a physiological construct of a man from the waist up.

Wow. And it's animated, looking at him. It was in that same case study, and this is just a side quest for everybody, that they had collected human blood plasma dripping from her cupboard. Human blood, I don't know. Unknown source? Unknown source. Wow.

Yeah, they tested it human blood plasma. It was really, really weird stuff going on there. But it was in that case study. They had this individual named Jeff Weechcraft. He was a videographer that worked with Dr. Tavv. And they kept hearing this thumping going on upstairs in the attic. And there was no light source up there. But they had talked, Jeff, we craft up and say, hey, man, why don't you go do it?

We don't want to do it. You go to it. So he goes, okay, fine. So he goes up there and he's walking in the attic. And when they looked, they didn't catch this on camera, and I don't believe. But they looked in the attic. One of them looked up the attic from the ladder, and they saw this floating dark cloud at the very end of the attic,

the back of the attic. They're like, Jeff go up there, buddy. It's all yours. And so Jeff's like, okay, so he's up there walking around. And he goes, okay, there is a black cloud here. I see it. It's darker than the darkness. And then all of a sudden you hear Jeff Weecraft go,

ooh. And then one of his photographers, because he couldn't get all the way up there, but you could see his photographer just stick a camera. up there far enough to snap a picture, right, which had the flash on, so it's boom. And what they captured was Jeff Weecraft had a small rope around his neck. One of these entities, okay, he was walking and there was a pillar like a beam. Then there was a small rope hanging on a nail on this side.

He had walked right into the rope because it's pitch, he's pitch by, he's walking to the rope. Something had drove the nail in and began to twist it. around his neck. So they saved his life. He was pale and all that. My point, though, is that these entities have the ability to become anthropomorphic. Fifth grade here, man. What is that?

What does that mean? To appear like a human being. Okay. It's a hand around the neck. It's five, you know, four fingers and a thumb. It's anthropomorphic. Yeah, it can project, Again, it's a physiological construct, something that appears to be real, but in fact it isn't.

It's an extension of that ball of light. Now, we're not just seeing that in hauntings, even a parapsychology, which they do research hauntings, of course, but we're seeing them in cases where it's not malevolent, so it's not really a haunting. It'll be more like poltergeist activity. But in one of these cases was from Lloyd Orbach, who's a lot of. a famous parapsychologist, where him and his team were in a paranormal investigation, and they kept witnessing a female apparition, a lady in white, and she's walking through the home, and they're witnessing it with their eyes. This is the key point for people that are going to be

watching this. A huge data point for understanding what's called the pathology behind these identities, how they behave. And they were interfacing with this apparition. In at first blush, they're doing what every other researcher would do and has done. They're going back into the annals of history in that local environment, local neighborhood. It's said, okay, does she belong here? You know, did she pass away on her wedding day? Why is she wearing that white dress? What's going on here? And that's when they realized that what they were seeing with their eyes was different than what they were capturing on camera. Let me say that again. What they were witnessing with their eyes was different than what they were capturing on camera.

So they're actively having the camera here and they're looking with their eyes. So it's apparition and then it's a ball of light. Apparition, ball of light. Wow, that opens up a whole book. Major problem in the way we approach it. Right? Yeah. Now, I'm going to kind of summarize this and tie a bow on it here in a second,

but I'm going to, so there's a difference there. You go even at UIFology, we have the Skywatcher group who in one of their interviews recently, one of them said, we are having a hard time understanding what we're observing. that's a what. Here comes the when, when we're observing it. We're having a hard time understanding what we're observing, when we're observing it. Why?

Because they're realizing that what they're capturing on camera is different than what they're perceiving with their eyes, which leads us into a very gloomy labyrinth of phenomenology, namely this. Just because it's the most visible to us does not mean it's the most present with us. Something else is there, and we're just now starting to capture it on camera.

Take it deeper. Please. Take it deeper, right? What that means for research is that we can no longer trust what we see alone. Not only that, but we're looking at an intelligence that has a knack for diversifying it.

itself in our environment where it can create a physiological construct of a craft in the sky until you look at the actual photographs and you see orbs around it contributing to that construct. So the example you just gave, so you're saying the craft in the sky, so UFO. Absolutely. What you're seeing with your eye, a craft in the sky. guy, but it's actually a projection. Now, the problem is this, and this is a very, very big problem for the phenomenology of it.

It's possible, my dear friend, that we have been mythologizing the mask of the phenomenon the entire time. Say it again. We have created mythologies around the apparition, not realizing it's a projection from the intelligence. So we- We've never seen the form, don't it. Jeez.

Dude. Wow. That's like being obsessed with the mask. Like you're sitting in a play and you're watching a whole scene unfold. And all you mentally can comprehend is the mask the person's wearing. And you're not even considering the fact that the mask is literally just a placeholder irrelevant. You've got it. Whoa.

Let's look at this again. This is why in some cases people are seeing balls of light and then it gets closer and now it's a structure. Whoa. I have a case study right. All right. All right. So I love when you come here. I love you, dude.

I love it too, man. This is great. Wow. But it changes the paradigm. Now, one of my dearest friends in the world, Grant says this is called post paradigm. This is called post paradigm research where my colleagues and I are tired of the old school narratives that were never holding true because of the data, they were basically produced by dogmatists and the paranormal. And people hear dog, I'm not talking about like a religiosity.

I'm talking about dog buttists and the paranormal that, you know, my uncle taught me this and that's what it has to be. No, what we're realizing is that we as a species have been manipulated by an intelligence that has the ability and the desire to weaponize our own vision against us because we as a species determine our threats solely based upon what we can see. And what I mean by that is we are being blinded by our own vision. We are focused on form, abandoning the function. So this gets back, and I think I mentioned this in our last interview, but I put it in all of my lectures because it's so germane to the conversation.

We're looking at an intelligence that evolves, according to our awareness of it. You see that throughout history with you of biology. Absolutely. Oh, yeah, it's Alexander they're great. It's a flying shield. No, it's not. Now, people say, well, that was just trapped in language.

What if it wasn't? What if that's really the interface the phenomenon chose in that local environment in that time in history? Let's take it a step further. In Iran, there is what's called the Iranian spider-tailed viper. what this is is a snake that realize that it likes to eat birds, just like I like to eat chicken wings. It's his favorite thing in the world. And the problem is he's out in the desert.

He doesn't want to be cooked alive out underneath the sun, but he still wants to eat. So at the very tip of his tail, there is a spider-like, I don't even what you'd call muscle, addition. it's it's got appendages it's got an abdomen it's it's grown at the very tip of its tail and what that spider will do is it will hide under a rock in the shadows it will take that spider tip tail

and begin to flip it like so in the sun now there will be a bird that will come around and it will see what it thinks is a spider, it will base the threat of that spider on what it perceives. I'm looking at form. I don't understand its function. And it starts applying rules to that spider. Spiders can't fly. It's not a threat to me. Everything's fine.

Plus, it's been a long day. I've been flying for a long time. I'm hungry. So it does a barrel dive. and as soon as it latches on to the tip of the tail, what it thinks is a spider will actually send information to the proto-intelligence, which is hiding in the shadows,

and then what's actually hungry for him will manifest. So what that entity realized was, in order to get what I'm hungry for, I have to manifest something. it's hungry for as well. Jeez. So my position in the phenomenon is that there are no conjurers.

They're being conjured. Oh. And what we're realizing now, again, is that is an example of the phenomenon diversifying itself as if, no, I'm this. I don't know. I'm, I'm, I'm this. And not, we're not realizing. No, no, no, no.

That's the spider tail. Iranian viper. When we contact this, it's just a guide. What we're not realizing is what we're hungry for is actually hungry for us. And we're tapping into a proto-intelligence that will send contact from the tip of the tail to the head of the snake. And then something we didn't even know existed because we believed in form emerges from the darkness. And that is what's happening right now on the phenomenon. It's self-initiated contact. No, you're not conjuring the phenomenon. The phenomenon's conjuring you. And by the time you sink your teeth into the spider, the real intelligence that has been manipulating you the entire time will emerge from the shadows.

And another problem is that's not a spider. It does not have spider capabilities. It doesn't think like a spider. And so what this does is it opens up a new field of phenomenology to where, listen, we can no longer focus on form. We've got to focus on function. What is it doing? What are the underlying mechanics behind it all? Now, because it's diversifying itself, we have the ability, like I said, not to understand the real proto-intelligence behind it all, but to literally mythologize the mask. We are having conferences

selling books on something that may not exist. They may be spiders on the tail of a snake. Holy cow. You honestly

you just took a very complex thing and made it very digestible. Like that makes complete sense. And it should be terrifying for people to start thinking along this path. I mean, we think about, because you think, it's like you're coming in the back door of the way we think about this stuff and meeting us halfway from a different angle. So if, just in your example with the snake, with the tail of a spider, that's, snake isn't necessarily looking for a hummingbird as much as any willing bird.

A willing bird. So do you perceive the phenomenon the same way where it's like it's not necessary? I mean, I believe that, I mean, maybe from my perspective, and you're changing things. But like, it seems like some people are targeted, but do you think it's more so at the root of it, less individuals being target and more the phenomenon fishing, for people who are mentally and spiritually at a location in their life where they are easily seeing malleable, manipulated, and not realizing that before you're transfigured, you're disfigured. And a lot of the people that I work with are either addicts or formerly addicts because they have

such a giftedness, the deep's calling under them. and they don't know how to respond to it. What do I do? What do I say? I'm called to something. Or even if it's ministry, you know, like, what do I do? And so that's been a side quest of mine I never talk about, you know, helping them get through that. And it's just.

So addicts have what, a propensity for this stuff? Well, the ones that I have met have been incredibly gifted, incredibly gifted. And when you say gift about, what do you get? Just spiritually. Okay. Physically, but like, you know, like emotionally, they're very gifted, talented.

But most of them, a lot of, most of them I've encountered, especially my, my friend Melissa and Josh, they have this propensity, this depth in them that is profound. And if that goes unheeled, if we don't understand that before we are transfigured, we've got to go through the disfigurement of destiny, how can I love me if I don't, know who I am. I don't know what deserves love. I'm alienated from myself. It's like Adam and Eve.

I want you to love me for who I am, but I don't know who I am. So there's this, this, again, a disfigurement of destiny. I wrote this in my first book, a moment called men, where I talk about Jesus was the most Jesus, not when he was out there recognized by everybody when he was disfigured and we saw us and him. We realized that, how can you go from a man that can raise the debt to a man that doesn't even look human? That was the ministry. too heavy. But yeah, so my point is a lot of them that I've encountered have profound

gifts and the phenomenon will target people. You know, when I was a young kid going up in the haunted house, I went through a terrible time because I felt unloved and wasn't my parents' fault at all. People tried to hang out of their past no, it was just the phenomenon. And I had to grow out of that and I had to realize that not every thought is my own.

You know? And I mentioned this last time I was on, but one of the best ways to treat the phenomenon is to fuel the fear without being afraid. And you shut it off in many cases to where it can no longer feed on you. But anyways, that's another show. But my point here is that we're starting to deconstruct a lot of models within the field because if in fact we have been literally mythologizing apparitions, we're not realizing that, oh my gosh, what are we capturing on camera?

Now, if the phenomenon can do that with apparitions, we also now are seeing it being done with UFOs. One of the biggest case studies now is Dr. Gary Nolan's case study in France, where a child was in a car with his family, and he's looking out of the window, his sunroof, and he sees this massive, structured, quote, nuts and bolts crap. And he starts describing it to his mother, and his mother is astounded, like, oh, my gosh.

So she looks up, it takes a picture of it. And it looked nothing like what he was seeing with his eyes, Tony. So he sees something. He sees something completely different. Mom sees something. And the cameras see something completely different. So was she seeing what he was seeing with her naked eye? No.

So there's three different things they were all seeing? I believe it was at least two. I don't know if she saw something different. I know she took a picture of it with her iPhone. And the iPhone showed this something completely different. My point, though, is again, if we go back in time in the middle ages and we began

to kind of define the phenomenon based upon what they had, which was what? Eyesight. They would have mythologized the mask of the phenomenon. They would have created conferences surrounding the spider. Not realizing that there's a snake out there that's

manipulating our perception of it. This reminds me of I'm trying to look it up here real quick. I had a guy on Mike Clelland. That's what it was. Yeah, I like Mike.

I don't know him, but yeah, like his word. I remember him talking about it because he's the owl guy. Yeah. I remember him bringing up on the show how people will have an encounter with, let's say, an entity, just generically. And one person, say it's standing in the middle of the road, one person will see a five-foot gray standing, a three-foot gray. And the next person will see a three, five-foot owl standing there. Same experience, same location, same time. They see two separate things.

It's, and now what I just laid out is two different people, but what you're talking about as a person and a camera, I mean, this is, mind-blown, yeah. It's like the phenomenon has the ability to not only manipulate technology versus reality, but also individual people's realities in the moment. Absolutely.

And a case of this, so you just brought up UIFology, like, it's all these different, it's crazy. So, like, first of all, you have the human side, the human desire of UIFology, you have the phenomenon's side of Ufology. You have the phenomenon's side of Ufology. And it seems like whether it's the phenomena or the human side, there's. there is a hijacking of what reality actually is. Absolutely. It's replicating reality. Now, again, with Steve Mira and his case study regarding the coffee mugs,

we're starting to nail down what the phenomenon does when it feels threatened. Okay, let's go down this rabbit hole. It's also fascinating. So in one of his case studies, he had a family that had, I think they went to a call score or something, they had purchased a group of coffee mugs. Well, the phenomenon took one of them, and they couldn't find it anywhere. They looked everywhere.

A couple months later, they come back into the house, the coffee mugs right back in the kitchen. Like, now we have all four. Yeah, okay. So, Steve Mera sent it off to a laboratory. They tested it, and there was an isotopic difference in the ratio between the coffee that was taken and replaced than the others that stayed. So the isotopic ratio was different. It was also an energy signature that did not belong to the others.

And so the question was asked, and by the way, when Steve and I covered this in our NHI, I discussions. But the theory was, okay, that the reason the isotopic ratio was different than the others is because of the dematerialization of the coffee mug and the rematerialization of it, which just comes back. That somewhere in between the leaving and the returning, there's a difference. The second theory, and this is one I believe we're leaning towards, is that that's not the same coffee mug, Tony. I was just going to suggest that. It's not the same coffee mug. Now, now here's the issue that it's not being changed from the atomic level.

what's being changed on the information level. It was designed to look and taste and feel the part, but it's not from our dimension. So the phenomenon will materialize an object,

they're called a port, into a local environment. And then Steve said, okay, well, why? And that's when they realized, to talk about this last time on the show with you. That's when they realize

that these are what are called quantum anchors, where the phenomenon, when it wants to anchor itself into this dimension, will materialize an object. Doop. And we'll think it belongs.

It doesn't. It's an alien, not extraterrestrial, right, but an alien object that's replicating reality. It's blending in. We would have never noted, you know. So that's another rappel. So my point, though, is when the phenomenon feels threatened, it will replicate. That's why we have hybridism. It replicates to inhabit.

Replicates to inhabit. And so what we're seeing now is. is that when Barry and Steve went into that household in one of their cases said, okay, you're having activity. Yes, we are. Okay, have you had an apport? Have you known? Oh, yeah, we don't know what this is. It just showed up. Now, mind you, this is a key point. We don't know where this came from. We didn't buy it. So it's brand new. Brand new. Whatever this is, we didn't buy it. Just showed up.

Now, they removed the object from the home. Phenomenon begins to glitch in and out. Why? Because that's the materialization. that's the replication of the phenomenon. Wow. It manifests something, anchors itself to it, and then puts it in the house. So knowing that, Steve and I were kind of bouncing around some ideas that we got into my field, which was demonology, and wouldn't you know we see the same mechanism being weaponized in the most malevolent hauntings, most malevolent possession cases.

think Gabriel Amorth, Malachi Martin, Adam Bligh. And the demoniac will, they're battling, right? It's like good and evil and everything. And then you have the priest, their exorcist. It's okay, I'm trying to get this entity out of you. The phenomenon's got to leave. But the phenomenon doesn't want to leave, Tony. So what's the methodology?

It will replicate an object. It will a port an object, a foreign object, into that local environment in but what was once attached to something else is now attached to the apport. Now, in the occult, it's called occult transference. But now we're considering it to be quantum anchors. It's just language, you know, cultural uniforms.

My point being that in the most malevolent demoniacs from their inner cavity, they will begin to regurgitate small objects apported into their body by the phenomenon, objects they never ingested. Nails, small objects, the phenomenon apports within them, and then the exorcist will collect them. Now, again, we've got two models here. Same phenomenon, right? Same mechanism.

They'll collect them and say, yes, this is a manifestation of the entity. What are you going to do with it, Mr. Exorcist? Well, we're going to bless it keeping in a safe space. Why? Because the phenomenon is attached to them. So what the phenomenon didn't want to do is leave. But what it does is then vacates. And when it vacates, it will anchor itself to another object.

It has to keep self-replicating through a port. So let's go. Is this cool? Let's go even deeper. Now we're going to get into UFology and the idea that we have these. So before you got into UFology here, because I would keep that thought. But I just want to make sure. I understand this correctly. And you said nail, so we're just going to use that as an example.

So say somebody is possessed, the entity replicates a nail that's not really a nail. That is... It'll feel real and everything, right? And so the exorcist, the human exorcist will take what feels like a nail and place it in a safe space. And that's the exorcism. That's the exorcism. So the exorcism is done then because... Sometimes it's done.

What it's doing okay is it's anchoring itself to that object. Right. And the exorcist knows. that. He knows that. He knows that. Now, these are two different fields of research. Wow. Right? Yeah, yeah. Same mechanism being weaponized. Now, this is, again, that we're looking at an intelligence that has to rehabilitate the disability of being. It's a being without being a being. So in order to keep itself in this reality, it has to import something, connect itself to it. And we would call that hybridism and demonology.

I have to have. That's a whole other show, which we got to talk on that later on. Maybe. That's my point, though, is these are, again, these are the same mechanisms behind the phenomenon. And I do believe my colleagues agree that we're looking at an intelligence that's diversified itself because this field has a question that this field has an answer for. And so what we end up happening is, yeah, we'll have a hybrid mother in euophology, who will never interview any goodbye victims. Why? That's because the phenomenon has to keep distance between the head of the snake and the tip of the tail. It's not until you pull the whole entity out into the sunlight. You see, they're all one and the same guys, all one and the same. Wow. So in UFology, this is being played out just with a different mask, essentially. No. I will say this.

There's a schism going on right now. In secular ufology, I know an individual right now, and I respect them too much to name them, at least at this point, because it's their story, at least the extent of it. But I will tell you this. This individual told me in confidence that they went to a conference, a secular UFO conference, rather. And secular ufologists were present. and at the conclusion of the conference, they were introduced to by accident. I'm going to use this as it was presented

on an X space with this individual. They asked this individual, okay, what happened at the conference? They told him on the X space. And the question was asked, did you, with all these UFO research, did you encounter, a cult?

Or did you encounter occultists? Or did you encounter like, are they another species? Like, what's going on here? Hurry. The attendees. And the individual said, or all of the above, what we're seeing

is that there is a carefully curated narrative by our federal government portions. to say this is extraterrestrial, there's no there there. And then meanwhile, behind closed doors, a lot of these people are building altars to these entities,

calling it extraterrestrial to sell T-shirts to push the narrative, and then go perform rituals for them to incarnate. You're talking about people in the government? In the government. They know this. They know this. This is why Posuka has said things like this. Okay.

Yes, we are aware. of the whistleblowers giving testimony at congressional hearings. But there is another group of whistleblowers behind the scenes that are actually briefing people and their model is much more esoteric, much more spiritual. And they realize that there is a profound occult connection between the phenomenon and what we're seeing experiencing. So my point here, and I'm being very strategic, but the words that I'm choosing to use, I want to use them explicitly, that they're building altars to these things.

And there is a symbiotic and at times parasitic relationship between whatever they are and whatever practitioners these people choose to be. You're blowing my mind. So you're saying, all right, disclosure, the disclosure hearings, are you saying that what, I mean, you're blowing my mind because it's like you're connecting dots. Not that like this is something that is impossible, right? Oh, but the people, the, say the disclosure hearings, the, the council or whatever you want to call them that it's involved. Are you suggesting that there's another group of whistleblowers, 100%?

That is underneath the surface. Absolutely. And it's not the invisible college. They may be an extension of it or work with them, but we're talking about a game. Again, pilots, engineers, that kind of thing. Now, that's actively happening. And again, within UFOology, there is kind of this secret war going on because you have people who, and I know them, Tony, who have approached this, who like, wanted to come from a family of academics, right? And it was kind of a secularish worldview or something like that adjacent to that.

And, you know, I'm thinking speaking as them, you know, I'm thinking I'm getting into this. because of the scientific method. These are extraterrestrials. And then I go to someone's house after a conference. They're like, oh, by the way, here's my altar. And then the worldviews crushed.

It's like, what am I, do I even want to do research anymore? That was the conversation I had. I'm like, do we want to do this anymore? Because it's nothing like that. That was your personal experience.

Not my experience. The person I talked to personally told me this. It was their experience. Word for word. What I realized was that I was being initiated into a mystery school.

You were? Not me. Okay. I'm just making sure. Oh, man. If it was me, I'd be like, hey, pal. No, no, no. No, but they told me this and they said, yeah,

they got to the dinner and they realized very quickly, this seems to be an initiation. Wow. So, but this idea, though, right, that it's another species even. That's what blows my mind. And so that's why there's this kind of internal war going on, because they're like, yeah, listen, you guys have no idea what's going on here. None.

What I was told was that the three-letter agencies are now actively monitoring and curating the narrative. You know, and there's so many cases like that. I mean, even the Virginia case in Brazil. I have two contacts in Brazil. Kyle and one of my new one called Costavo, and they're both researchers. And in the States, you have probably heard as I. as well as I have, that there was this structured craft that crashed in the 90s, and there was the entity that, you know, they led him by the hand and the whole,

the whole town saw it. Now, that's, that could be true. But the context I have in, in Steve and I discusses in an in, in the CHI discussions where there was an occultist who basically owned that town. Okay. And he had, he had a nice, was a mansion there, basically, and there were woods in front of him. Now, he was the financier for the town. I mean, he was the one that kept it up and was building different structures, businesses. It was basically his own kingdom. He was the cultist, and he had actually carved a cavern under the earth to perform his rituals. Now, a researcher, his name's Ronnie Vernet, is Brazilian researcher, fascinating research, incredible guy.

but he was one of the people that actually went there and investigated in person. And Rodi Vernet said, well, it's weird because, and this is where you see the carefully curated narrative, on one hand, I've been told that these beings came from the earth and crashed on the ground, or came from the sky rather, crashed on the earth, and that these are aliens and that they were really scared. And he's like, but now that I'm here, I'm talking to the locals, and they're kind of laughing at me. They're like, no, no, no, no.

it didn't come from the sky. They came from inside the earth, Tony. Where was that man performing his rituals? Inside the earth? Where are the woods? They're right in front of the house. The man owns them. And when they saw them, the whole town said, no, those aren't aliens.

There were multiple entities. And one of them allegedly, and this is their, again, the uniform cultural language, was a devil. And so what my point here again is that in the United States, we're being fed, carefully curated narrative of institutional non-disclosure designed by intention to obfuscate and hide the esoteric aspects of this phenomenon. Meanwhile, pushing other points up there and saying, okay, you get a microphone, but not you. You need to sit out. Interesting. So there's this war going on. And it fascinates me, but it's also deeply disturbing because why wouldn't you want us to know that?

What's really going on here? Well, it's who do you serve? You know, so the ones that are in charge of pushing narratives and province stuff up, who are they serving? Oh, I'll give you another one, brother. People that go to Ken Nathaniel, what's the deal with these sigils? Well, I'm not projecting my worldview on the phenomenon. Yeah.

Look, people are getting sigils on them. Ronnie Vernet, after he went and investigated that case study, went back to his house, and the phenomenon or one of these entities had carved a sigil. He did was comforter on his bed, Tony. So we're looking at something that's incredibly sophisticated, and that is it's almost a practitioner in a way, carving sigils on people, in people, under the skin, on people's bedposts and the comforters.

And so my goal here, though, again, is to simplify the phenomenology, to make it palatable in a way without abandoning the depth that's really here. Yeah. So when it comes to the narrative being pushed, do you, this is, I guess, more your opinion, what you see in disclosure, the direction of things going, do you think that there is a. desire to reveal the esoteric nature of this, maybe in their own palatable way or the way they want to hand-package and deliver it? Do you think that there's a desire to reveal full truth to the esoteric nature of this whole phenomena at some point? Because it seems like for me, what you're describing is that there's a shadow group of practitioners, human and non-human, who are on the earth, Tony.

clarify what do you mean by on the earth embodied on the earth they're here all right so for me to clarify what you just said and we've talked about this before but you're saying some look like human but they're not human

some of them are possessed by entities and that's again I was I was getting some of Gary Wayne's research which it kind of works hanging with some of mine where when you get at these ekeby accounts it doesn't make sense you know

the idea was especially with Father Sinistria of Amino was you're dealing with a practitioner that's embodied. He's replicating by by secretions and civilization, as Austin Osman Spar would say. And when you have both of those combined, you're looking at agency, you're looking at a corporeal entity. You know, even some of the church fathers wrestled with this subject matter, even like Thomas Aquinas said, okay, well, this is kind of funny. Forget me for laughing. But it's all right. You're still dealing with this, you know, oh, what is this and how can it make sense? But the one idea was that the, The succubus will go to a man and harvest the secretions from him, change its form, go to a woman and inseminate.

I think that's a little bit difficult. I would just suggest we're looking at a male embodied practitioner that has an entity in him. And it's working close with that entity willingly inseminating a woman so what's in him can inhabit the fetus they impregnated her with. Self-replication. What does the phenomenon do when it wants to rehabilitate its disability? being it replicates. So that replication mechanism is found through all of the phenomenology. It's how it survives. Wow. Now, there's a question here in the field, okay, is that God? Well, God would not have to create a physio. Again, if we look at the material, if you look at

not the DNA of the coffee mug, of course, that's not what I meant. But if you look at it from the quantum level, you'll say, okay, yeah, it did not replicate it from the atomic. dimension. It was just, it looked like. So in other words, it cannot create matter. It can only manipulate it. So there are limitations. But that's where I'm at with all of this. And sooner or later, you're going to start seeing people defect from secular euophology. And what they're going to do was they're going to align themselves more along with Kenneth Grant's model, Alan Greenfield's model, where, yes, the government knows these are not new entities. They're ancient,

primeval, probably primordial, and that disclosure itself, okay, the definition, okay, disclosure to me would be different than disclosure to you because we have different motivations, different interests, right, and different experiences. Now, when people say, okay, we need to have disclosure, well, that's predicated on your worldview.

because my worldview says that disclosure happened at the erection of the very first altars at antiquity. From that, from that moment, you had two forces. Very simple. Very simple. And that's so important in what you just said to clarify. Because I feel like it's something that a lot of us feel inside, but we didn't have the words to say it. Disclosure is predicated on your world.

Like, when we see the secular disclosure happening, you know, what's being put in the news and stuff, that is according to a very specific world view. And there is a strong force trying to push that upon 100% of the people as to this is the truth of the matter. But it really does come down to how an individual perceives the world to begin with, how they can even. consume disclosure. Right. Disclosure has become just a placeholder

for, tell me what I want to hear. Tell me that they're extraterrestrial. It's a lot more palatable than saying, okay, listen, they're going to walk right

through your wall at night, pull you out of your own skin. Hopefully you'll remember it. And if you do remember it, you're going to have to go through the trauma of remembering it. And then somebody else would come and say,

hey, listen, they did that to raise your consciousness, even though we can't define or measure consciousness, we sure know they're raising it. No. Again, when we look at these narratives analytically, they begin to fall apart as they should. Why?

Because the data set does not complement them. And so that's where I'm at. My colleagues are at right now. But there are reasons as to why they don't want to disclose that. And number one, I don't know how the phenomenon respond. Or if people would even believe that. that's what we're at. Wow.

That's incredible. When you were bringing up about the idea of people seeing something, but the camera is seeing something different, there is a case in the Bigfoot world happened. I mean, it's got to be like over 20 years ago now. I mean, yeah, at least 20 years ago. Yeah.

Do you know where I'm going with this? I don't. Okay. I just missed 20 years ago. It was a different world. So, so. Are you familiar with a woman named Claudia Ackley? So she's passed away now, and she was suing the state of California, I would say probably in 2020-ish, for not disclosing Bigfoot being in the state.

Her daughter had an experience and encounter, and she took it to the courts, essentially. I don't know what ever happened to that. She's passed away now. You could, did you hear that? Sounds like the hair salon next door is getting a little rattle. I just don't make a shirt because I have my kids are in the next room. I wanted to make sure they weren't screaming. But she, so you could draw a conspiracy if you wanted to as to, you know,

was she taken out, you know, which I'm not here to do, and nor do I even theorize on the matter. But my first introduction to her was her getting into Bigfoot research. I just let's just throw out the year 2012. I don't know what year it was. But there was a video on YouTube and you probably could still find it. I imagine it's probably still a poor video quality, I'm sure now. But she was on a hike with a lady named Barb.

She had a YouTube channel called Barb and Gabby. Gabby was the dog. And they would do Bigfoot outings. They would go out looking for Bigfoot, you know. And it's, you know, a lot of hiking and camping. she had an experience where she saw, and I don't remember where this was, let's say West Coast, maybe Washington State, she saw something, what she would call it juvenile. So like if you're talking Bigfoot World, you were probably talking about something.

A small foot, four, yeah, four to five feet, you know, a juvenile Bigfoot, right? She saw something completely covered in hair coming down out of a tree. It was like a very large monkey, you know. And she said it was black covered in hair. And at the same time, Barb had her camera and she was filming. And she wasn't filming specifically in that direction because I don't, if I remember correctly, I don't think Claudia like freaked out at that moment or something. But Barb was, was filming.

And you see on video as they're talking about it and she's relaying what she's relaying what she saw. She's like, well, you know, when we get back to camp and review footage, I was filming, we'll see if we caught something. They caught something, but they didn't catch a hairy, black, humanoid creature coming down on the tree. What they caught on camera was something distorting space around it and has a lot of similarities to the predator where it's translucent. It was something translucent coming down out of the tree. At that moment that she said with her naked eye, she saw something black and hairy.

Now, the camera sees something. The camera doesn't have the consciousness of its own, but Claudia does. And Claudia might have seen the spider on the tail of a snake. That's what you're saying. Oh, yeah. I'm going to give you another one. So it was fishing for, it was, it was manifesting something

for the intention that the people were there for to draw. Wow. Choosing an interface. Choosing an interface. And often you and I become co-creators of that when we're interfacing with the phenomenon. And we've seen this throughout all of the field, even demonology, where I'm going to choose an interface that best suits this interaction. Why? Because I'm going to moderate your behavior.

If I want you to do ABNC, I'm not going to appear as something that would be against my interests. But yeah, there's some theories as to why that's taking place. You know, some people believe it's the observer effect, which I'm toying with, where once you observe the phenomenon, it collapses itself into something that you would be more familiar with. But I would suggest that it's manipulating imagery. To date, I don't know of any case study where a person has been abducted by Yahweh. Why, Tony? Yawai has no image.

Wow. Wow. Right. There's no image. The invisible God. Right. I am the invisible God. No form.

So when the phenomenon takes that form, which it won't because it's easily discernible, yeah, okay, that's kind of cute, but nice one. But what it will do, and I've seen this too, well, it will weaponize even instances of Jesus abducting people. But it's not the first century, all of skin, Jewish rabbi. It's, as my deceased friend Brad Scott would say, the linguist. it's the Swedish Presbyterian version of Jesus. One that does not fit the historical record. Why? Because it's a program.

It glitches in and out. It only needs to get you to believe in the mask. Because as somebody mentioned this on next the other day, the more you believe in the mask, the more you empower the manifestation, who do men say that I am? Why? It matters. And I'm going to say this.

It's going to be belief is the form thought takes when it's ready to be inhabited. And the phenomenon inhabits belief. If I do not believe you are who you appear to me, it will change. It will change what it looks like. It will change the archetype to get you worked into a situation to where now through belief you are empowering the phenomenon.

And that, well, I'm entitled to become that person. That's why the phenomenon would manifest as husbands. Because I wanted to do husband things. things. Right? And so it appear as that interface, but it really isn't. So my point, though, is, again,

that we are, our species, again, it's profound how deceptive the phenomenon can be, and we need to get out of the mode that form equals function. Yeah. This is fascinating.

I just had an episode go out recently, and I just talked to him. It went out pretty quick. We bumped into the front of the line. His name is Wyatt Coates, and he's in Colorado, and he has a very radical story. But, I mean, it has a lot of detail. I'm not going to go into the detail, but I will bring up this part of his story. He believed he was in relationship with Jesus Christ.

And what he believed was Jesus. and I know he still listens to the show and stuff why it's so if I get this wrong I apologize but he was having a sexual relationship with what he believed was Jesus and he was submitting to it because he was like this is Jesus so I will do what Jesus wants me to do

and that's kind of similar to what you're talking about with the idea of the manifestation of Jesus in different forms to fit the person the individual's requirement of what Jesus needs to be. It's disturbing. It is the way. So let me go down this rabbit hole for a fleeting moment.

Because I think I've touched on a lot already. But a lot of these manifestations are designed to be initiations. The phenomenon is triggering what's called auto initiation within the person. Now, auto initiation was a philosophy taught by Alastair Crowley. Originally, the idea was that I'm not going to rely on exterior entity. to initiate myself. I'm going to initiate myself. What we're seeing now is the phenomenon

is overriding that. It's saying, okay, yeah, you're contacting us. We're not contacting you. You're, you know, that kind of philosophy. But with Matthew Roberts,

who was a witness to the gimbal UAP, he sees this craft. Now, I need to make a caveat here. I'm not seeing every craft out there, right, Tony, because I have to,

because somebody will say, nothing else. He'll say, is the physiological construct. I'm saying most of them are. I'm not saying every big foot out there is a physiological. I'm saying most of them are, right? Most of them are. But Matthew Roberts is witnessing this gimbal, UAP, and he's like this is blowing my mind. Well, if there is no esoteric connection to that manifestation, then the following should have not taken place at his home.

He goes home. A voice comes down, Tony. A voice, where's the body at? There is no body. the voice and it begins to give him books in the occult to research tells him which authors he needs to investigate. That's one. The second event was a succubus encounter. Now, for those who have had succubite encounters, even incubate encounters, there's new research that I'm doing now that I would be releasing here at the, this is the end of the year, so probably in the middle of next year, which it connects a lot of these sexual encounters to initiations. because he had a succubus encounter without his consent. The next morning, he is dry heaving, vomiting even,

because he realizes he was utterly violated by this entity. The phenomenon comes back and says, that was you being initiated. So now if we retroactively, go back to, incubide succuby literature, it's possible that those events were not limited to some sexual encounter, but they were actually rituals being performed upon experiencers without their permission or consent, and that what's happening in that dimension is stretching itself into this, and just like the civilization, a ritual is being performed by someone, and we're seeing

its cause right here. It's called epiphenomenon. It's someone jumping into a pool of water. We feel the waves. We see the sigils. We have the encounters, not realizing that someone's in the water on the other side of the pool.

That's making the wake that we're experiencing. The end result would be initiation and ritual magic being performed upon experiencers. And I think that's what our government is hiding. Number one, because it's a very, it's a very ugly truth. It's what Jim Simivan would call indigestible, even if we told you this is happening. Could you stop it? What would you do? Number one, number one, but number two would be, and there are

facts with our own government that knows it is occurring. In matter of fact, there's evidence now that there are abductions taking place, experiencers being haunted and hunted by the phenomenon, but never telling a soul, Tony. This happened to Tammy. Stone in the Collins Elite book, final events. The next morning, knock on the door by our federal government. Did you have a really bad dream last night? Why? Because you're working with them. You know. So where we're at right now in the field is that there's a lot of deconstruction going on, what we used to believe. We don't. And my perspective now is I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, very little in the nuts and bolts

model. I'm more so now into physiological constructs designed to hide the real intelligence out there. I love that because I think that's getting down to the nuts and bolts. There we go, dude. The real nuts and bolts. Absolutely, buddy.

And I would just say, I mean, you just posed a question here, even if you knew if they told you, what would you do? And I think they know what the, because from my perspective of the supernatural creation and supernatural God, I think the supernatural created beings that we are would, if we knew the truth, I think there's a healthy portion of people who would start turning to the creator for the solution or the defense. They would go, and we talked about this before we were actually on camera here. where I say

I want to clarify just this because I just feel like that was very new agey to say. When I say the creator, I mean God, Jehovah. Yeah. And I just want people to know what I'm saying when I say that. I completely get you. I understand I agree. I think that once and again we discussed this prior to the show,

we know people who when they saw the sting and the tail of the phenomenon, it did not push them to atheism. it pushed them even some to full orthodoxy. Why?

In some people, obviously it was like, you know what I need to maybe reconnect with my source. That's New Agee, right? To God or, you know, to my historical tradition, whatever. And some of them were just like,

I can't even quantify that kind of darkness, the depth that's present there. It would be. alien. I mean, and I've said this in times past where some of these entities, their morality, it's like they have no morality. It would be like sitting across from Edward Kemper, who's a six-foot-nine serial killer, and you're trying to ask him about his day. How's it going? Trying to find some commonality with it, only to realize that in a fleeting moment, his eyes change. What are you exactly?

I can't relate. That's what it's like with these, some of these beings. And, And there is a form of hijacking of consciousness going on. Okay, if we go into this theory regarding the observer effect and quantum mechanics, then it would explain one of the cases I've had where, and I mentioned this time's past, it was one of Dr. Clark Turner's cases too, where a family is sitting in the living room, they're watching television, the mother is sleeping on the couch, and a biofield materializes one of those orps together and translucent biofield manifests. it goes through the room and it descends down upon the sleeping mother.

The mother wakes about 45 minutes later. Okay, I've been abducted by aliens. That's the tale. But then she broke out metatone sigils. Sigils that went through the three stages. Again, the body absorbed them, activated them, and then reject them. You're good. You're gone.

Why? Because she was performed upon somewhere a ritual took place in was performed upon a ritual in her life. Now, the interface, the phenomenon chose was extraterrestrial. But again, the form doesn't match the function. The function was esoteric. Now, I'm going to say this, as I said it last time with you, and I even gave you the paper. But there is a declassified paper.

The CIA declassified it in 02. And it was originally, right, experimented in the USSR in the 70s where they had a practitioner, psychic, who they placed a piece. of paper inside an envelope, strapped into the forehead, we want you to project your consciousness, your intention, and we want you to put certain symbols

from the left to right on this photograph paper. They did it successfully. They put it 20 feet away. I'm about to tie a major bow here for everybody. You guys are like, wait a minute. So they took the envelope, put it 20 feet away from her and said,

okay, now there's distance. We want you to do the same thing. We're going to see what happens. Now, this time, because it wasn't on her head, there was a biofield created between her and the envelope, corpuscular balls of light. And it moved from her all the way to the envelope. They sit it down onto the envelope. They pulled the paper out. Same symbols, Tony.

So one theory is that some of these orbs and biofields were witnessing in the field are merely projections for a cult practitioners. And within them are the intentions, appearances. of I want you to see me as an extraterrestrial. Why? Because that's form. What is my function? I'm performing a ritual on you. I got chills.

I'm performing this on you. But it's just extraterrestrial. Okay. Now, now we're dealing with this idea that these entities have the ability to collapse themselves into orps. Now that would explain the anthropomorphism we saw. hands, right? Even Chris Bledsoe. I heard the footfall of a man in the woods.

Well, it was just an orb, Chris. What if it wasn't just an orb? What if we're dealing with, again, the projection of an occult practitioner who has collapsed himself into balls of light that has the ability to hold, touch, walk, which would make sense to me as to why you would have sigils on the skin of a person

who saw the form but was actually haunted by the function. So, so two things. The story you shared way in the beginning of the handprints on the neck

suggesting that or that went into the person could have been an occult practitioner. Projecting himself. Reasoning for being able actually see a humanoid handprint. And then the envelope being 10, 20 feet away, the orbs.

So you're talking about those orbs now are like a third part. You got the envelope of the person. Extention of human consciousness. So were the orbs the extension of that person's human conscience? Yes. Yep. Got it. Wow. Yep. Now, again, that's why

chasing form, now that would explain the anthropomorphic characteristics of some of these things. Now, and I was going somewhere. I had it. as I was telling you that story, then it escaped me. Yeah, being performed upon an initiates. You know, a lot of this has to do with a mystery school, one that transcends the known traditions here.

You know, and I think that's what we're dealing with. Our government knows that. And you say mystery school, just so people understand, because I don't talk about a whole lot on the show, but that's a place, from what I understand, a place where people go to learn occultism. Occultism. And they're very real,

geographically located places. Maybe they are in the astral too. In fact, I'm willing to bet they probably are. I've been learning how much actually happens in the astral. Yeah. That's to keep things untraceable. It's there. Yeah.

And because we're such a, I guess a vision-focused species, it would blind us with our own vision. Let me give you a scenario. It's laughable because of where we were in the field. Did we finish your thought on the mystery school? I'm going to keep talking. I'm going to get there. I said I was going to tie it in a bow.

Oh, yeah, by the way, watch this. Oh, watch this. Watch this. So in media, mediumship, and some of the early contact is in mediumship. The phenomenon was giving them disks shaped like flying saucers as a means of materializing the, entity in that room, a porting, a disc. Oh.

I finally remembered ADHD's rough, buddy. My goodness. We're in the same boat of my friend. I'm like, where'd it go? I'm glitching it out, buddy. Keep it going before you leave it in. So the phenomenon will materialize a disc or materialize an object in mediumship. And then through a virtue of ectoplasm or some spiritual manifestation, an entity would appear.

accompanying the presence of a disc. And Albert Bender, one of the very first contactees who built an altar to these entities in his attic, was given a disc by these beings. And they were communicating with him through the disc. Up until the phenomenon removed the disc, all communications stopped. Up until in mediumship, the disc disappeared. It collapsed. The ectoplasm, it's gone. Both discs, two different fields of research.

And in hauntology, Kenneth Grant, I'm sorry, Kenneth Arnold is flying and he sees what he believes and describes as disks. These are flying saucers. So I am of the belief now that what we're looking at are apports that are designed to help further the manifestation of the phenomenon. That's what he saw, but what was actually there? So that is an archetype that I'm seeing more and more in the field that should not be present. They should be just in one specific field of research. What I believe, though, is it's another one of those mechanisms that transcend. They're everywhere because it's a part of the phenomenon.

It's how it anchors itself in this dimension. Now, getting down to a ports. Now, let's get back to the phenomenology, right? The phenomenon will manifest something that does belong there. I didn't even purchase it. Now, the only reason we know of those cases is because, people noticed it. Now, how many of those cases exist? Yes. And people have no idea. Yes. Now, that would imply that we have actually witnessed the

phenomenon without realizing it. Now, because the scariest thing about the paranormal field is not the black cat in the matrix. It's not knowing the black cat in the matrix. It's not knowing that there are objects in our local environment that should not be there. It's the ability of the phenomenon to replicate reality in our presence. I'm going to sing you, again, I'm just sitting in your producer a bunch of pictures here, but one of these pictures was shared with me. He was a minister. Him and his wife were in Tennessee.

I don't know what part of Tennessee, but they were driving on vacation. And they passed this beautiful lake. The water was crystal clear and the clouds were bouncing and reflecting off the water. It was a beautiful day. And they get out of the car and they snap a picture of the water. We got to treasure this. And they look at the picture and there is a structure hovering directly over the water, metallic, look like a cigar-shaped object. They said that what they saw were the orbs, not the object.

So it can change. What that implies that even if we do appeal to the observer effect playing a role, then we're looking at a phenomenon that can control the variable of collapsing. it can control what we help collapse it into. It has that ability. Wow. So it's profound. So that's really where I'm at, man. I know it's a lot to unpack.

Oh, my gosh. Well, yeah. To all that above and above. Holy cow, man. That's wild. I mean, I feel like I feel like I have so many ADHD thoughts that are just gone in the wind now. It's the coffee for me, man.

I'm just like, who squirrel. No, this was a fantastic conversation. And I would say that what you're doing is you're pulling back the curtain on the roots of the phenomenon. And I think people are going to be, I hope people are encouraged by some of this stuff because it actually provides the answer. There's an answer. there's remedies to this you know you're not just helplessly existing on on this plane of existence with

with no tools in a tool belt uh and you're just you know at the whim of this this supernatural force uh there's a reason why this is happening and it's like you said it goes back to the very beginning you know there was a shift that happened and there was teams created and and um there's a real enemy out there that hates humanity and we'll seek their, seek their destruction. It will, and I want to touch on this before we end it if we, if I can. Please. Now, I have, I own a book called Disembodied Souls and it's an academic compendium of Bible scholars, really.

One of them is Professor Esther Amory, I think. But it's a bunch of Bible scholars who were talking about the theory of a disembodied soul in biblical antiquity, especially. in the Old Testament. And there's a passage in scripture, Ezekiel chapter 13, where God is waging war with a group of necromancers. And the King James Version, it's kind of watered down. When you get into the Hebrew.

You're talking about Ezekiel 1318, actually. Yeah, those who want the souls of men to make them fly. But what people don't, again, in this book, it's fascinating, where they make a unique connection that people rarely have, I began talking about it about five years ago, but I haven't heard very few people talk about this. But these necromancers had a gift of false prophecy. And he describes this. You go around saying things that I never said. Like maybe next year, God's going to come and Hothor is going to be with him. Maybe I didn't say that. And I'm kind of mad because you're acting like I said that. You're a false prophet. Now, those people whose souls were

pulled out of their bodies by these practitioners when they were put back into them, their bodies demonstrated a unique pathology. Their skin anomalies, their skin began to demonstrate markings that in antiquity, the King James Version is called leprosy. But our leprosy was different than the leprosy they're mentioning. It's not Hanson's disease. It was a direct result of contact with entities

who were pulling their souls out of their bodies and who were giving them false prophecies. Now, what we're seeing in the field in a UFO abduction phenomenon are the same thing. People are being out of their bodies and some of them taking with their bodies. They're being hand-fed false prophecies. And Palsuka told one of these experiencers as such, right? You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, they told you A, B, and C, but you ought to know that they lie all the time.

It's a false prophet. Now, it's amazing. In Hebrew, it's called Lashon Hurrah, the evil tongue. And so what these scholars in the book Disembodied Souls tie this all, it's fascinating, tie it all together, and the picture they paint, it's exactly with what we're talking about. It's a species of practitioners who through ritual magic.

It's not just, again, they paint them in King James Version as just female. No, the Hebrew words is both. The first scripture is female, the other word, and it's both. Both gender. The idea, though, is that they will perform a ritual. They will peel you out of your body, And it's virtually the Ba'a soul in Egyptology. It flies like a bird, those who hunt the souls of men to make them fly.

And he says that you kill those who should live so that those who should die will stay alive. It's necromancy. That's why I've created necronetics as a field. It's studying that research. My point, though, is that once you contact them and they contact you, the following occurs. they'll give you a false prophecy. You'll deal with the evil tongue was shown hurrah. They'll be put back into your body.

Your body will begin to demonstrate skin anomalies, some subdermal. And then you'll have to go to the priest. And the priest will look at you and say, okay, based upon my analysis, this is a spiritual disease first, Tony. And then it manifests on the skin. Have you been in contact with these entities? Yes, I have. okay

and then the right of extracism takes place crazy crazy but they speak about it and they paint this picture very clearly this is why we have

Betty Luca out of her body and then when she's back into her body subdermal now she has scoop marks why a skin anomaly encountering false prophets beings that are speaking on the behalf

of Yahweh that have nothing to do with out way at all. That's the correlation. And I do believe that's why even in ufology, people like Bud Hopkins questioned. Like, of course, not knowing this bodyed souls and that kind of that academic literature, what even written then? But But Hopkins was like, why is it that you are out of your body, but your body is showing signs and skin anomalies?

Because spiritual condition first, in many cases, and then it's a skin condition second. Soul first, skin second. Why? Because it's a result of a ritual. So that's the war that's going on. You hunt the souls of men to make them fly. Jeez, dude. You just provided perspective on that whole thing that I, you know.

Well, I can go. Is this good? All right. Watch this. Watch this. Now, in this particular passage, there are motifs that people miss because they, especially if just read the Westernized King James,

version, if you get down to the Hebrew, you start to see, oh my gosh, what was their, what was their goal? Was the endgame? Yeah. It was a Hebrew word that's being employed. What they were talking about is that they were taking fabric from their victims, okay, and then sewing it into a pillowcase. The Hebrew word for pillowcase is the same word for human skin. Say it again? The Hebrew word for pillowcase is the same Hebrew word for used in that skin.

So when we see skin, the idea was, this is crazy, guys, I know this is crazy. I know this is crazy. Just bear with me. No, keep going. Keep going. The idea was that they were, this is an ancient form of skin grafting is what the reference was where I'm taking skin from you to sew it into my skin. In other words, I'm trying to facilitate my disability of being.

I don't have a body. I have to maintain the body I do have. And so it's skin grafting, which. goes into hybridism, right? It goes into why? Because I have to have a body. So was the practitioner in Ezekiel 1318 not human then? The body it's created, seemingly human. Wow. But guys, this is my point. Again, it has to self-replicate. And so when you're talking

3,2,000, 2,500 years ago, that's the way they articulated it. Why? Because, okay, one translation, again, King James says, okay, yeah, it's just, it's just, it's, pillowcases. I'm taking fabric from you, Tony, and I'm stitching it into this. No, that same word is used for human skin. And it was an ancient form of skin grafting. In other words, I'm using you to create me. Jeez. High five champ, right? And so that's when you start to see it. I need to break this down even deeper so people understand this, that these necromancers had a connection to that species. It's a species. Again, I'm not so.

saying, okay, that these are all human. I believe some of them, many of them are, but we're dealing with the species here. And even if you get into ancient necromancy, even in the Witch of Indoor, this is, by the way, this is Professor Astromori's work. She highlights the fact that linguistically, there is no real representation for the Witch of Indoor. You go into T. Whitten Davies' thesis, he says that she was an Ove or an O.B., an Ove, an Oube. And that was it, that she was a witch and that she was outlawed by Saul. But then if you get into the Bible, the scripture says, no, he killed them all. But she's there.

So what is she? Now, in linguistics, we have what's called a hapax legammonon, which means, this is kind of in the weeds here, but it's like the way this phrase is written in the syntax of the language. It's never written like that again. In other words, this is a one-off. We don't really have an explanation for this, her presence. We don't know, you know, whatever. Then you get into Esther Amori's work, and Esther Amory says, no, no, no, we do.

She is a one-of, but she's called a Ma'alot-Ov, or a Ba'al-Ov, a Ba'a-A-Lord or a master. Ba'A-A-Lat-Ov. In other words, she is a mistress of the image of the dead. Okay. She sees it. She sees them. This is fascinating stuff. My point, though, is that in necromancy, in the Old Testament, the Ove, the Ove, O.B, had many different definitions because they had many different roles.

The first one was that it was a piece that was given to them. They would place inside of their mouth, and they would begin to chirp and mutter. Hello, age of disclosure, wink, wink. they would begin to chirp in mutter a language given to them by the other. So it's designed to facilitate speech. It's designed to communicate in this dimension. Number one. Number two, it is the material image.

In demonology, it's the social skin. It's the material image of the possessing entity. So it's a device to amplify language. Then it's the avatar. The third definition, Tony, is that it's the entity itself is the OB, the OVE. Okay. Now, that word Ove, O B, it's a borrowed loan word. It's a Canaan word.

And in Canaanite, it's pronounced Ava, like Abba, or one that returns. This is going to be heavy. So necromancy and what they've done is they said, okay, we need to facilitate our disability of being, being without being a being. What do I need? I need to have an ove. What kind of oove?

I need to have something that can amplify my communication in this dimension. We're going to give you that. But I also need an avatar to possess. Possessed in pregnancy. So what am I going to do? I'm going to have to create a body to inhabit. How do I do that? Well, I'm getting an avatar.

I need a hybrid. And then the third one is I'm going to be the entity possessing it. So what they did, the phenomenon is these entities, they took the horizontal definition, avatar, the mechanism of speech and communication in the entity, me, the entity, not me, the entity, and collapse them into one and created hybridism to where now I have a fetus to inhabit. That's my avatar.

I have a way to communicate in this dimension. that's the voice and I'm inside of it. Wow. And it's the Oof. Why? Because it's returning. So when they do return, they're going to do it as Ove.

They're going to do it as Ove as hybrids. Dude, this is where we end. Because here's the thing. And I'm at the point in this conversation where I need to listen back five times to comprehend everything you just said. So it's a lot, man.

But I hope whenever you visit family for a holiday or something, you just come through here and just, you know, redefine things. Because like, holy crap, this was wild. This was wild. And, you know, coming in the day, I was like, well, we'll see what we talk about, you know? And I think I text you this morning. You have any ideas where we're going to go? I really didn't.

I was just wore out to the drive, dude. I was like, oh. But like, honestly, it just shows you're continually researching and you're pulling from the well of your research. And at this table, you can lay it out any time. I appreciate you. Appreciate it, brother. Thanks, man. We're rapid.

Solutions. I'm in a fun house. Lock in a box car with all of these clowns. Maybe I'm just a rude to face with Miami in and competition. Yeah. It feels like it's a sickness.