The Confessionals - The Backrooms Are Real: What's Waiting in the Space Between Worlds | Slingshot Nation

Episode Date: June 12, 2026

The Backrooms movie finally exposed what lives in liminal spaces. Something real is waiting in the in-between places — and more people are finding it.What are the Backrooms, and what waits inside them? Are they a hidden world within our own? Are they another realm where tangible monsters exist and occasionally come for us? Or are they a bridge zone between two realities, a place where humans accidentally slip through the cracks and encounter the guardians, parasites, or predators of the other side? Maybe the Backrooms are not simply physical spaces at all. Maybe they are a kind of mind bridge, a psychological doorway where human consciousness steps into another realm through the architecture of the mind. Whatever they are, one thing seems clear: they represent liminal space. They are the in-between places. The places that should be empty, but are not. And more people are finding them.The movie The Backrooms explores this idea, whether the director fully realized it or not. It taps into something that has been building in the culture for years: the sense that the walls between worlds are getting thinner, the doorways are becoming more frequent, and the impossible is being introduced as entertainment before it is accepted as reality. Why are movies like this becoming more blatant? Why are stories about portals, hidden realms, entities, liminal spaces, and otherworldly intrusions showing up more and more? Maybe these films are not just entertainment. Maybe they are part of a larger cultural conditioning process. We are being trained through story. The culture is being engineered through movies, shows, games, and digital folklore. And maybe the reason is simple: the reality of what is coming will only be palatable if people have been conditioned to accept it beforehand. If the unbelievable has already been made familiar, then when the real thing shows up, people will not reject it outright. They will recognize it.Please pray for Tony's wife, Lindsay, as she battles breast cancer. Your prayers make a difference!If you’re able, consider helping the Merkel family with medical expenses by donating to Lindsay’s GoFundMe: https://gofund.me/b8f76890📕 Pre-order Tony's Book: https://a.co/d/0bJS3SaVBecome a member for ad-free listening, extra shows, and exclusive access to our social media app: theconfessionalspodcast.com/joinThe Confessionals Social Network App:Apple Store: https://apple.co/3UxhPrhGoogle Play: https://bit.ly/43mk8kZThe Counter Series Available NOW:The Counter (YouTube): WATCH HEREThe Counter (Full Episode): WATCH HERETony's Recommended Reads: slingshotlibrary.comIf you want to learn about Jesus and what it means to be saved: Click HereMerkel Media Apparel: merkmerch.comSPONSORSGHOSTBED: GhostBed.com/tonyQUINCE: quince.com/tonyIVERMECTIN: twc.health/tonyVENICE AI: https://venice.ai/theconfessionalsRUMBLE WALLET: https://rumblewallet.onelink.me/bJsX/ConfessionalsCONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.theconfessionalspodcast.comEmail: [e-mail] ADDRESS:Merkel Media257 N. Calderwood St., #301Alcoa, TN 37701SOCIAL MEDIASubscribe to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/2TlREaIReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/theconfessionals/Discord: https://discord.gg/KDn4D2uw7hShow Instagram: theconfessionalspodcastTony's Instagram: tonymerkelofficialFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheConfessionalsPodcasTwitter: @TConfessionalsTony's Twitter: @tony_merkelProduced by: @jack_theproducer

Oh boy, is that Slingshot? Yeah, yeah. Clingshot season. Hey. Grace, hear me like, boom. Welcome to the show, my friend. Thank you for joining me here on Slingshot Nation. I'm glad you're here.

It's been a little bit. It's been like a week. I missed you. So thank you for being here on Slingshot Nation, where we talk about, I don't know, whatever we feel like talking about that week. And this week we'll be talking about things that I'm just going to stay off the top of my head. I'm telling you right now, you right there. Look at me.

Eyeball to eyeball. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. Okay, I don't know if I'm going to spoil, but if I spoil, I told you right now. I mean, we're not even a minute in and I told you this is a spoiler alert. So if you don't like it, it's okay. You can migrate out right now. Okay?

I won't be mad at you. Okay, you and me will powwow later. It'll be okay. But I'm telling you right now, don't get mad at me if I spoil it for you. Okay? I'm going to try my best not to. but I'm not good at these kind of things. And that's why you're here.

Because I just talk and you want me to talk and I say what's on my mind. I say what's my heart. I wear it on the sleeve and you need me to be like that. So sometimes it's counterproductive and I might spoil it for you. So, Derek, how are you? Good, man. So good. And you're spoiling the backrooms movie just for context for people.

Yeah, we were going to get there. So if you want to watch the backrooms movie still, that is your spoiler alert. But we thank you all you guys so much for being here. It's such a pleasure. And thanks for Jack and Tony and go Team USA. Guys, come on. World Cup's going down. I know all you haters out there don't like soccer, but it's okay. It's not that we don't like soccer.

It's just not an American sport. So like, go Team USA. But, you know, sure. No, seriously, go to anything USA, go Team USA. I mean, I know Jason's over here. He's got like a whole soccer team at home. So he's cheering it along. Jason, how are you, man?

Pretty good, man. How are you doing? I'm glad you here. I wasn't going to bring you in this quickly, but I forgot that I was going to, I had a show order here. And so anyways, everybody, this is Jason. Jason, everybody. How's it going? Say hi to my friend right here, Jason. Say hi to my friend right there.

Hello, friend. How are you doing today? All right. See, he likes you. So Jason is the newest member of Merkel Media. and we had to do some shuffling and expanding. And so Jason is now works for the company. And you actually took a load off of Jack.

We ran into a real bottleneck where when Jack first got hired here, all I had him and his only job was to produce audio episodes. That's it. I didn't do video. I wasn't on YouTube. I was a podcaster for, what, six, seven years when he came to work for me. And his job was to edit. Don't ever do that again.

It's not like where my eye, Jack. I said six, seven years ago, it was like this. But he comes down to edit audio. If you are in production, you know that's the easiest part to edit. It's so easy. And since then, we started doing YouTube. So we started editing video. We started doing this live show.

We started hosting people in studio. And when we host people in studio, Jack has to be here. And that's his whole day is hosting that one person in studio. His whole day is doing this show. Like, I assuming he got here probably around 8, 8.30 this morning. We're live now. And we're not going to be done until 12, 12.30. It's his whole day.

And so he wasn't actually having time to do post-production with the complicated nature became of audio and video, YouTube, all that stuff. And he wound up sleeping at the office a lot. And like, that's not even a joke. Like, he would sleep at the office. and I was looking at it and I was thinking myself, I feel partly responsible for this. And so we started looking around,

and Jason, I'm glad to have you here and you're doing all the production. Obviously today, you're not, but having you here, you've worked so far ahead on production. It's not like a hard thing to have you here today in studio. So you've been helping the company advance, and we appreciate that.

Thank you very much for being here, man. Yeah, I'm so happy to be here. And after doing it for a couple of weeks now, I'm like, how did Jack do this and have a life? I mean, seriously, it's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. And I have to juggle this thing with Jack. We're getting into the show today, but you guys know how it goes.

I had this thing with Jack where I'm juggling big brother and boss. And when I'm seeing my employee sleeping at the office to get everything done, I am. looking at it, I'm like, now I feel like a bad boss and a bad big, bad big brother. Say that 10 times fast. And so things needed to change. And Jack, are you feeling a lot at more at peace these days? Oh, yeah. And I was stressed. You seem like you're more alive. Yeah. Yeah. I'm back to chill Jack. I feel like. He was, he was paying rent for a house that he wasn't living in. And so it's like whenever I want to go visit Jack, I just go to the office.

Don't trip on a sleeping bag. Yeah. Seriously, whenever I was like, who's sleeping bag is this? And Jack was like, yeah, sometimes I sleep here. Yeah. I mean, so we have this studio and then we have another office, not here, but another place. And when we had just this studio, I'd come in and I could tell if Jack slept in the couch all night long. And I didn't think anything of it. But as time went on, I was like,

this probably isn't a good thing. This probably isn't a good thing. Because here's a thing. I built this show like that. And I still do. I mean, somebody go on Slack and look at my last 113. 113 in the morning. I text you guys something about today's show on Slack. That's how I live my life. But it's, I run it. Like, I'm the boss. Like, I shouldn't expect everybody else to do that as well. I'm assuming you were sleeping at that time. It was 100% sleeping. That's unfortunate. That's unfortunate. I know you're unreliable now. Jack, I need to stay up all night again.

I will defend myself and say I respond to you the most late at night compared to everyone else. You probably do it. To defend Jack on that, where he lives, he has like zero reception. So we all have iPhones and Jack will, when I text Jack sometimes, it comes up as a green bubble. I'm like, oh, he'll get it eventually. So. That's how you know my internet isn't working. That's what's up.

But yeah, so things have changed. We have a four-man full-time team here now, and I'm very grateful for it. It's breathed fresh life into the environment, which was much needed. So, Jason, you feel like you're just editing video all day, but you're doing far more than that to the team. Like, we're actually, we have new life because you're here. So thank you for coming and being with us because it's awesome. Guys, listen, I gave you the spoiler. Now I have to give you another spoiler alert.

And this is not like anything for movies, but I got to tell you what's coming in the future. There is a strong chance that in the coming weeks, you're going to see me with no beard. Whoa. Yeah. I'm really glad that I changed the logo from the face before where I was doing the shush. And everybody says I'm in Illuminati and I'm telling you,

I'm doing one eye and all that crazy stuff. Now I have the six-figure handprint, which has his own conspiracies. Apparently I'm a nephalum or I hang out with nephalum. or something like that. But my face isn't the logo. And that's good. Because since February, I was dealing with face issues, not just the ugliness, but I was actually

having skin issues under my beard that I was desperately trying to hide from everybody. And so, like, before we would go live or record, I'm making sure I don't have, like, no flakes. It was like, whatever. The guys get this, like, I forget, like, it's like yeast or something, like a yeast. yeast infection or something, but I had to get this infection on my face. And I'm trying to treat it and, you know, I had good days and bad days. And it got really bad. And so I went to a dermatologist and he hooked me with medicine and it started healing. But now that it's healing, all the spots that

I had this infection are losing hair. And it's growing in bald spots. And every morning I'm washing my beard and more hair's falling out. And I think in, possibly in a week or two, I might not be able to hide the fact that I have a bald spot climbing up the middle of my chin. And that's why I want to just do a new look where I shaved my chin and keep everything else. I think we should have a vote. I think a handelball mustache could be pretty sweet. I don't think my wife would like that.

I don't know. I thought about a mustache, like a full mustache kind of thing. But that would be a team decision between me and Lindsay. Yeah. I think that she doesn't want the beard to go. now. She used to hate the beard. She hate the long beard. The beard that made me look like I was a terrorist. Like that was that she did not like. But the shorter one, I think she's seen it for so long. But anyways, I just wanted to give everybody a heads up. It is not a fashion statement. If you

see me with no beard, it's because I'm losing my beard hair. And hopefully it grows back. I talked to the doctor last week. And he looked at my hair follicles. And he said, it looks like you have hair follicles still there. I suspect it will grow back. And I hope so. But it's not right now. It's baby smooth, like my son's cheeks. You got to make sure you record, like, your daughter when you do the shave, because those videos are hysterical. They're, like, touch the face and be like, what? I know. I once shaved, and my kids were like, who are you?

And I was like, I'm your uncle Ronnie. Now, they believed it. I was like, I'm an only child. I mean, you know you don't have an uncle. You know what's funny is that I often like playing pranks on people. and when I was driving truck I would sometimes go into a place and they'd recognize me

and they're like, hey, Tony. I was like, oh, no, I'm not Tony. They're like, what? And they think I'm acting like a furry or something like that. No, like, I'm not Tony a day. I'm a fox, you know? But no, I would say, that's my brother. We're twins.

And they're like, twins? He never told me he was like, yeah, we're twins. We work for it. He doesn't really like talking about it because it bothers people. And it's so true. Yeah. And I'm praying people like that.

And I thought about doing that last week. So there was a lady, I took the kids to Pelican Snowball. And I love that. So I'm lactose intolerant. So I can't eat ice cream. So I love snowballs, you know, like the flavored ice. And I took the kids over there. And we're getting in the car.

And Lindsay is there, the whole family. And I just buckled Gemma in. And this lady comes over. She's like, hey, I just want to let you know. I watch a show. I love the show. And, you know, I'm praying for your wife. And I was like so.

I was caught off guard, you know? And I was like, oh, thanks. And I said, well, there she is. And I pointed to Lindsay. And she's like, oh, I love you and, you know, praying for you. And you look beautiful and all that. And I was like, okay, well, thanks. And I kind of, like, I walked away feeling like, I should have like, you know, I don't know.

What's your name? And, you know, like that's a conversation. Cordial. Yeah, yeah. But for a brief second in my mind, for a brief second in my mind, when I turn around and she first starts talking to me, I thought, should I do the twin game? But I didn't. I just remained awkward.

But Lady at Pelicans, thanks for coming over and saying all those nice things. And thank you for praying for my wife, Lindsay. All the prayers are appreciated. And yeah, it was a nice interaction. It was a nice interaction. So, listen, I want to say one more thing here as far as cool announcements. and then we'll get into the business announcements, right? There is a meme page that started, I guess, a week or two ago.

I don't know the guy who runs it. I've talked to him on DM, but I don't know him personally. I don't even know what his name is. But it popped up on our radar. And when it popped on my radar, the only followers I think it had was you guys. And I was like, did you guys start a meme page? I'm like, no, we thought you did. And I was like, no.

And I was like, unfollow that. I don't know who this is. And I don't know what they're doing. you know. And then I forget what. I looked at the one day and I was like, you know what? Chill out, bro. And so I made him like a meme logo because he had like a seven-figured handprint. And I made him one that was like crazy and stuff. And I said, hey, man, you know. And it turns out he has a friend that does a meme page for ninjas or butterflies. And he's like, I just think it would be fun to make people laugh. And I'm just like, I like that. So go ahead and follow the Confessionals meme page. It's at Confessionals memes on Instagram.

out to that. I think he has like 60, 70 followers now. But yeah, so there's a meme page. That's when you know you made it. Mimes, right? And I thought, I'd like some of the stuff he was putting up there, too. And what was funny was in his bio, it said, the Confessionals meme page that Tony will never see. And I was like, one of the first people we saw it. Like Instagram's like, uh, Tony, you know, I've been stumbled across other pages that are ripping off our content and like just, you know, straight up ripping it off, put it on their page, not tagging it, and all that stuff. And it's like, whatever. There's nothing I can do about, I suppose. Is there? Maybe not. I don't know. We'll deal with that on the back end. At least tag me or something. Like credit the show. It's like, you know,

I don't know. But I guess that's the world we live in. Clipping is a thing, right? Clipping is definitely a thing. Yeah. So, listen, those are my goofy, fun announcements. We do have Remnant Rising coming in August. It's about two months away. And I'll be speaking there as a speaker. That's going to be August 8th through the 9th. Seven through the 9th. And yeah, it's going to be fun. It's going to be in Missouri. Jack, do you have any details on that? Yeah. So it's going to be in Missouri or Springfield, Missouri.

You have a whole host of speakers. You have John Pounders, Jamie Walden, you, Joe Horn, Derek Gilbert, Sharon Gilbert, Vicki Joy Anderson, Dave Hodges. Should I keep going? No, just keep, I think these announcements are getting long. So let's get this going. Okay, so now it's my fault. Yeah. Yeah, so you have a whole bunch of speakers.

This is a prophecy conference. So there's going to be a whole lot of very interesting topics being discussed regarding prophetic timing of different things. What do they get? What are they getting out of this? Free tickets. Well, yeah. Okay. It's like I can't expound upon anything.

It's a conference and you can get some free tickets. Do you want free tickets, guys? There's a way to do you. George, I'll tell you. Too slow. Okay, so the one minute I took to explain anything, giveaway email, if you want to have, there's six free tickets, okay?

Over the next six weeks, we're going to be announcing a winner for one ticket, one free ticket to general admission. So if you want to enter to have a chance at winning that ticket, go ahead to Gmail or whatever your email is, and enter in the Confessionals giveaway at gmail.com. Submit your information, your name.

What else do they need? Just that. Just their name? Just give your name. Let's say you're interested. Give your name. We have your email. We'll pull your name. If you win, we'll contact you for more information. Or if you want to provide it there, you can as far as your address, email, and contact information. We'll pass that on to the event people, and they'll be in touch with you. But we have six tickets we can give away. And next week, we'll be pulling the first winner. So if you want that, go ahead and email us the confessionals giveaway at gmail.com. And that is how it's done, Jack.

Also, just real quick, guys, there's a webinar coming up on June 19th, Paul Begley. It's called The Beast Ascending webinar. And if you want, you can go ahead and get tickets to that webinar. I did an hour, I think I did it over an hour contribution to that webinar with Paul Begley. Derek, what's the website for that again? It's Paul Begley. It's B-E-G-L-E-Y, Paul Begley-Pogley-P prophecy.org. Paul Begley-Pegley-Popathy.org if you want to get a seat at that webinar.

webinar, Joseph Z, Tony Merkel, Alan Deio, Larry Raglan, you know, the crew that was at this super secret meeting, you know, that basically, basically that crew plus more. But it's going to be, it's really good. In fact, I can tell you, at least for me, what I did yesterday with him on the recording, I think we knocked it out of the park. And that was the whole goal. And so I think at least my hour is going to be good. So I can't speak for it. that slouch Joseph Z. But yeah, it's going to be a good time, guys. So go ahead, check it out, please,

if you want to be part of that webinar on June 19th. And lastly, guys, let's get into the business. We're going to get into the back rooms, liminal spaces. And oddly, not oddly, I suppose, but I have a life that deals with liminal spaces. You know, not just the show, but myself throughout my life has dealt with liminal spaces and I just didn't understand it. I didn't know it.

I think many of you watching me right now don't know it. You don't realize that you're living in a liminal space or you're in the middle of a transition. It's just because you become comfortable with it. And looking back on my life, I've seen that I have several times been in situations where a liminal space, whether it was a spiritual liminal space or a physical liminal space. For instance, when I was a child, I would go down in the woods all the time. And I would go with my friends. And when you go with your friends down in the woods, we would always go through the same exact spot.

We would go to this one path right next to these mailboxes and we would enter the woods. And when it went with my friends, we were on an adventure. And that's what the whole business was. But when I would go alone, everything changed. I was entering a space that was void of the energy that I once had. And it was scary. You go down there and you start looking around the woods and you're wondering, you know, you think about Bigfoot. And you're wondering what's lurking out there, but you feel the presence of something there, right?

And I had this thought that we'll get into, but this idea that these liminal spaces that people experience, you know, Think about an empty school at night. Think about when you were a child and you had to, for whatever reason, you had to go back to the school at night to get a notebook after hours since you forgot it. You forgot your textbook. You're walking down the hallway to go to your locker and nobody's there. It's a creepy feeling. And it's not because the school is any different other than the energy that was there during

day is no longer there. And I believe that when that energy is removed, it's revealing what is hiding underneath the surface. And I experienced those kind of things as a child growing up, going into the woods and exploring. And I didn't realize that until I was sitting, you know, last year writing that book that we're going to be coming out with a, we're going to be coming out with a book in October this year. I think it's going to be October 6 that the actual launch date is. but I'm just saying October 2026 because I

don't know exactly because they say that the date can change and stuff but but pre-order on Amazon I'm getting there Derek I'm just a meeting sure golly Jack can you rain your boys

I'm selling books so I thought you were done with announcements I'm talking okay Jason I don't know I don't know what to say this guy

a new guy what the heck I know to be quiet. This guy over here gets it. He gets it. Um, so where was I at? I was, oh, I was promoting my book. Yes. And that you decided to help me with. To help promote. Um, so when I was writing this book, and I came to this understanding that there, I found myself in a lot of these kind of situations. And the, the essence of the book is essentially piercing, the veil and exposing this idea of there's two kingdoms and they're warring with one another.

And that war manifests on one side of the veil to the other side of the veil. And that's why on the cover, Jack, if you pull the cover up, do you have the cover available? That's why on the cover, we have this doorway. And it's because it's to show the idea that there's something on the other side. and you're in the middle of a war. And so the book is called The Confession. Jack, Derek, do you want to do this part for me? Yeah.

Oh, man. Forwarded by L.A. Marzuli, we have the Confessionals exposing warring kingdoms, the hidden truth behind UFOs, cryptids, and spiritual warfare by Tony Merkel. Where can they get it? You can pre-order now on Amazon. Thanks. I forgot. I appreciate that. Thank you.

Oh, man. I mean, if he would just let me cook, I was getting there, you know? Oh, yeah. I wonder what it's like when someone doesn't let somebody cook about, you know. Well, listen, I was trying to get to the important part, okay? So anyways, Jack, to wrap this up, do you happen to have, by chance, a video? I do.

Okay. So I've been making promotional material for the book, and I haven't released everything. But most of the stuff I've been putting up on my stories. And it's just a general video. But this is the first day. This is a world premiere, a world premiere of the 15th. I'm making a little 15 second trailers for the chapters. And I'm going to make a bigger trailer later.

But this trailer you're about to see is, it's in vertical format because it's meant for, you know, scrolling. Not for this format, but you'll be okay. It is based off a chapter one, Jack, roll the film. Hey, that started, like, can you start that back? Can you go back? There we go. Full effect. What is that?

Doon, do, do, boom. No, the reason I wanted you to roll that back is because the opening shot is literally the actual trailer park. And so that sign and everything, Highland State's trailer park. That's where I grew up. And I was proud of that. And the video clip it. It was quick. But there was like a delay or something.

I don't know. I think so. Anyways. We're 25 minutes in. We're going to start the show, guys. Oh, I'm ready. Hey, let's take a five-minute break. Anybody need to use the bathroom before we get going here?

No, but go ahead and please. Basically, pre-order the book because it helps the algorithm, though, to push it to people that people are actually interested in. So that's why we're talking about pre-orders because it actually helps once the book actually launches. So if you're interested, and the book is basically my timeline of from childhood into the show, throughout the show. Where was I introduced to the supernatural? How did that happen? And what's been my journey through the supernatural to get to the point where I'm at now with my understanding of it. And it's a really good book. And I think people will really like it a lot. So go ahead and

check it out. You can just type in Tony Merkel into your Amazon search bar. Yes. Yes. Thank you. So go ahead. Check it out. If you dare, if you don't, if you're too scared, it's fine. I understand. It's cool. If you're scared. But it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. So let's talk about the break rooms. I mean, the back rooms. So we went to the movies last night, I think, for the first time, definitely for the first time, as a team. And because I was, I like talking about liminal spaces and this idea of what's on the other side. And over time, I've described a different ways trying to convey what's in my gut, right?

But I want to say, before we talk about what is the liminal space, we all have had that feeling, the feeling of dread, that there's something that's lurking, but everything's empty. And one of the things that for me, and I'd be open to hearing anybody's your experiences with something like this, But when I was a kid, we moved from a trailer to, Jack, that house was what, like 70, 80 years old when we bought it. My mom and dad bought it. It was really old. It was really old house. And so I never lived in a house before.

I'm like, what is this? You know, there's an upstairs and a downstairs when I would open the door to the basement. The basement's unfinished and it's an old basement with like stone, like the foundation is made out of stone. You know, it's not like cement or cinder blocks. It's stone foundation. If I'm right, correct, right? Yeah. And you're looking down this basement stairs and there's a light bulb right above your head that you had to pull the string.

You turn that thing on and it lights up the stairs. And you're looking down there and I ain't going down there. Nope. Yep. And logic says there's nothing down there. But you feel it. there's something lurking, there's something waiting for you. And you go downstairs and down in this house,

I had a duck in the basement pretty quickly. In fact, I think once I actually, we actually moved in there, I was already too tall for the basement because the people who at some point they put cement down there, but they didn't dig it out. So it was like, I don't know, five and a half foot tall ceiling and I was already like six feet, right? I thought you said you had a duck in the basement.

No, I mean, quack, quack, quiet. Well, we like eggs. We like the duck eggs, you know. But you go down there because we had a water softener and I had to take care of that. Oh, man. And so I'm down there and it's one big open room, but then there's this room in the back. And I don't know what it was for, maybe a cold storage cellar, but it was empty. And I, correct me if I'm wrong, Jack, but for the longest time, there was like a random chair just sitting in that, in that room.

Yeah, an old metal chair. an old metal chair. And I don't know where it came from, why it was there. But that basement gave me that dread feeling. And it was an empty, void space. But when I walked through the doorway to go to the basement,

I was entering into a liminal space. And you guys certainly have had situations like that. Oh, yeah. What are you thinking about? So my grandmother and her sister lived together because both their husbands were deceased. And whenever her sister passed away, my great aunt, she had a bedroom upstairs. And the only bathroom in the house, this was also an older house.

The only bathroom was upstairs next to her bedroom. And you had to walk up these creepy stairs to go up there. And every time, it was just like I felt like beyond that door that was her bedroom. She was in there or something was in there. And it was terrifying, you know. Yeah. Especially at night. Oh, my gosh.

stairways, hallways, schools. Do you have any? Are you super brave? Super brave? Are you super brave? I didn't think I was. But since I moved to Tennessee, I've been a little bit more brave.

But when I was in New York, I was actually, like, me and my wife were watching, like, a late show. And then all of a sudden, I'm looking down. It's like a big, like, two rooms are connected and open. And then at the bottom of the stairs, there's like a servant staircase. And then like what's a servant staircase? It's like a secondary staircase. staircase that was like kind of its own door and stuff and then like the main staircase.

And they kind of like came up next to each other into like the main foyer area. There's a light in the foyer was on. All of a sudden I see like a shadow. But like I could hear the kids come down the stairs. It's an old house, right? So you would hear the creeks and the pops. Hear nothing. And all of a sudden I see like this little black silhouette like pop out from behind.

And so then I run over there quick and look and then there was nothing there. And I was like, that's really weird. I swear I saw something. So like the same. like that creepy old, like we don't know, doorways, gateways thing. Jack, do you have any thoughts? Liminal space thoughts?

Yeah, like feelings of dread. Like, have you had experiences where you enter into a space where there's like the feeling of dread and logically said, you would say there's no reason for that? Probably, yes. Okay, so keep producing, Jack.

You're doing really good. You are doing really good. You're juggling a lot over there. Yeah, it is. But one of the other thoughts that I have with that is the inversion. So going in my parents' basement was this feeling of dread. And then going into my parents' attic was this feeling of dread.

And going up those stairs and then going into the attic, which was always hot and just old. It was like something was waiting, right? And that's like, I have this. down here that we when you're going into the basement you're going into the attic you're going into the hallway or the stairs you're entering a territory you're not just entering a part of the house you're not entering the school a location you're entering a territory and when I say territory we got to start gearing our minds now for this conversation probably for the rest of this the show territory spiritual territory and things like that because when you walk into somewhere

natural, basement's empty, addicts empty, schools empty. It's not actually empty. And what it's empty of is what you're used to, the energy that was once there. And I wrote this down, when the energy were used to in these places is removed, it reveals something else was there the whole time that hides under the surface. And I think that's where this feeling of dread is coming from. It's not that you're overreacting. It's not that you're a scaredy cat. They're super brave. But I'm scared to cat. My wife would disagree.

That's fine. But it's because it's revealing there's something there that you don't get to experience through the chaos of the energy that's typically there. And so liminal spaces aren't just spaces. They're territories. Liminal territories. And we talk a lot about the... spiritual warfare on this show and when you're dealing with going into a liminal space

it's like you're you're going into you're crossing enemy lines almost right um think second heaven type verbiage that i often use on the show you're you're it's jesus going across to see well he owns everything but for for my example uh going across to see a galley he gets off the boat and he's now in the enemy's camp you know mark was it mark four or five, when the demoniac man comes over to him, Legion. Like, there was a legion of demons in that man. Like, who knows how many were there at the tombs where he was dwelling, right? So Jesus went to the enemy's camp.

Like, getting off that boat, he walked through. What was it called again? I keep wanting to say, nutshell. It's not nutshell. What is it? The not... The clip. No clip.

No clip. Thank you. I don't know why I keep thinking, nutshell. But it's this idea of the no clip entering the through the veil, piercing that veil. I know if your son's watching right now, he's like, that's actually not right. I know. He's like, no, not no clip. Like no clip is something totally different.

But it's like, but it's that idea of this transition, right? And, and so territorial language, I think is. fitting for liminal spaces. And that could be a physical liminal space that we were hitting on, but it could also be a spiritual liminal space. And I've talked to people and we've ventured theories and stuff about people going to somewhere, right?

They were no longer here, they went somewhere else. And we can hit on the Joshua Tree thing and probably a bunch of other examples. of that. But this movie, the backrooms, you're probably the most equipped to, what was, how did it all start? It was like, it was an internet theory. Like you posted a picture of it, right? The original post. Yeah. So it was originally, it was a photo that was posted on 4chan. And then it got reposted to Reddit and someone made a comment on it. It's, I don't have it in front of me, the comment. Give me one second. I can pull it up. So there was a guy he described the backrooms from this picture. And I don't know if he has actually been there because the way he described it, it seemed very like he knew, you know.

So it says, if you're not careful, you will no clip out of reality into the wrong area and you'll end up in the back rooms. where there's nothing but the stink of old moist carpet and madness of mono yellow and endless background noise of fluorescent lights. It's just creepy. Yeah.

And so that's the original post and it sounds like almost like a live role play creepy pasta internet thing, right? And I think it's, I mean, for everything that I've ever heard, that's what it is, right? And then it starts a,

a kid starts a YouTube series, right, Derek? There's a bunch, yeah. So the main one that did the movie, he had a lot of like the main production aspects of this, but it was actually a bunch of independent, like little filmmakers that made little YouTube clips and kind of created this whole lore of what the backrooms are. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's a fun, you know, it's a fun thing to play with, right? Mentally. But the shame of it is when it starts out as, you know, fake, there's so many people who can't cross the line of, but this is real too, right? And that's what we're trying to cross today. Is the backrooms real or fake? The post on the internet, probably fake. Definitely the productions on YouTube fake. The movie, fake. But the backrooms are very, the idea of the backrooms, very real. Very tangible. And I don't know if the director totally understands that or not, because he's so young. Kane Pixels. King Pixels.

What's his name? Kyle, I think it was. I can't, if you could look up his name, not you. His real name is Kane Parsons. Oh, Kane? Kane. That's such a cool name. Kane.

Wrestling fan. Yeah, yeah. Glenn Jacobs. So, but, and so it's a real thing. And I want to use this as an example of, most. Jack, if you can pull up that comment from that I sent over earlier. And I hope he's okay. I mean, it's a public comment, so I'm sure he's okay with his faces up there five years ago. So I think it's up for members, Jack. If I remember correctly,

the whole Boxcar Rocks video. I was told years ago that there is a place in the southeastern Pennsylvania area that has that that that's basically has an entrance that you can go into the earth and there's reptilians and all this other stuff and you will know you're in the area when you find a large rock that looks like a reptile and I'm like searching all over the place and I found a place out in the Harrisburg area that's like I think it's called dinosaur rock but it's filled with graffiti and it's like right in town and I'm thinking that's not probably I did, and then I found the boxcar rocks. And at the end of the wall, it's a huge wall that it's on top of the Appalachian Mountains and it extends, it goes into the ground. So I don't know how far it actually

goes. But at the one end of it, they call it the whale head. But when you look at it and you think reptilian, you're like, that could be a snakehead too, right? And so I went up there the first time with a guy, Ed, from a triangle multimedia. And we spent a day up there. It's like 14 hours, We were up there at night. We wound up catching this EVP answering me when I asked him, are you ready to go? And it goes into the microphone, it goes, okay. And I was like, oh.

And then I heard a little girl whispering that night and things like that. So Jack and I go up there and we explore, and we were actually going to spend the night there. And then that was the night October 7th, the night that all this stuff happened in Israel. And we didn't have a reception of there. And the one spot we had reception, my phone just got flooded with all this stuff. And I looked at him and I said, we need to get back to Tennessee now because I don't know what's happening.

And so we drove through the night on a rescue mission that didn't need to happen. But when I was up there, it's like you're entering a liminal space. There's not a lot of traffic. Now, there were some people up there throughout the day that I spent there. But Jack, I don't think we saw anybody up there when we were there, did we? I don't believe we saw anybody. But I honestly can't remember. If we did, it was very few.

Oh, yes, we did. We saw that one guy that we stopped and talked to. That's right. And he was kind of... He's the one that told us about that, the whole. Yeah. And so it's a mysterious area, right? And when you're walking up to the, what they call the whale head, I'll call the reptilian head, it's like you're entering into a liminal space. It's void of energy that I believe was once there a long, long time ago. In fact, I know it because I did research on the area.

The Native Americans would use that very spot to build smoke fires to signal across whatever, the way, the way, whatever the way is. But heavy traffic up there for them. But when we were up there, it was void of that, but there was still something there, you know? And then this comment, if you could bring it back up, Jack, I'm sorry, it took me a while to get to it. this guy Jackson five years ago posted on Google Maps for the box car rocks. He says, there's nowhere else on earth that means as much to me as this place. If you go and spend the day, you'll see so many incredible things. However, if you go again and again, you'll find things that most people don't know about,

things that are meant to be hidden. I have been trying to find Jackson. I I for when I saw this I went on Facebook I went all over to place trying to like see if I could track this Jackson guy down so I could talk to me like what do you mean things that are meant to be hidden do you think there's like access points in that area I do because like Jesse Michaels when he had his two weeks ago he had a he was talking about disclosure and how they think they use like nanoparticles to actually like block parts of the mountain and they can actually like open them up

and actually like have like super top secret groups come in and out of the mountain through that through like a spiritual doorway. Like it's technology. You're talking about like technology like nanoparticle things. But in the same way, I think I sent it to Jack. But like even in Peru, like this has been a long thing. Like they actually carved a pathway out in the middle of a giant piece of stone. He's pulling it up. Check that out.

So like that was like this has been around a long time. These like gateway portions where you're going into different realms. You know, it's, I don't know, it's really interesting. You think there's something like that where you were? I do. I don't know if it's that, if it's like that. Like obvious like that, yeah. Not obvious, but like intentional.

Mm-hmm. Because we were on hollow ground up there, I think nearly 100 years ago, there was a lot of coal mining. And so there's remnant mines still up there. And if you're not careful, you could fall through the ground. And at one point, we had gone way back into the woods, and we saw this huge copper pipe going through the top of the mountain.

And I was like, what the heck is this? Why is this up here and stuff? I didn't know. I didn't realize that it's probably from the old minds. So, excuse me, there's, don't drink ghost energy drinks, live on air, makes you want to burp. But so there is that idea of access points, you know?

But it was, that's what I mean. Like, I don't think, like what you just showed us, that seems very intentional. Right. And by design. Yeah. You know, but I don't know if it matters if it's by intent and design or if it's by ease of access. So, you know, how many times do people accidentally invite spiritual activity in their lives not knowing it?

Right. So just because you didn't intend to have this giant hole in the side of a mountain for mining to be a spiritual access point, doesn't mean it won't be, you know, for that liminal space when you enter in. I mean, have you ever gone into an old coal mine? Like, it is, dude, again, I'm just like, my brain is just thinking of all these liminal spaces that are just creepy. I went into, it actually was barred off. And I had a ratchet strap on me. So I tied it around and I ratchet it and bent the bars so I could squeeze through. Oh, wow.

And we go down into this, this old coal mine. And it was like... It was lost in time. And you know there's nobody in there, yet there was something there because you entered a territory. You know, and we talk about territorial spirits and how they have their own areas that they reign over. That's not just in the physical, but it's also in the layer of reality on top of this. See, I was talking to Pastor Paul Begley about this. yesterday. It's just a theory. And I told him this. I said it several times because I'm like,

I know this is for your audience. But I feel like we today and throughout ever since the fall of man have been, we shifted because of the curse of sin. And we at one point, I don't want to say I believe I have this theory that we existed almost like the entities that wage war against us. because I believe that those entities are extremely physical, and they can be physical here, and they can be physical there. But they also have this spiritual element that they can tap into, this poofy nature.

And I do feel like maybe not completely, but somehow we had that kind of substance and makeup, but the curse actually cut us off. And we then had to live this just physical existence. It's like half of our, what we once were is no longer accessible to us. And I used the example with Pastor Paul. I said, where is the Garden of Eden? If it has to be guarded so nobody enters it, why is it that we can't find it?

And could it be that it exists where we once had access to, but no longer have access to, but other things do have access there. And it's guarding from other things entering the garden that's not man. And it's just a theory. but the garden right now, a liminal space. So does that make sense or did I just mind them? No, it makes sense, yeah.

Okay. Right answers only, Jason. The new guy gets it. But Jack and Derek are like, it doesn't make sense, so I'm just going to keep my mouth out of show. Yeah, I was tracking. I was tracking.

Okay. Okay. So what are the back rooms? I have some thoughts here. And I'm talking about the back rooms. like double meaning the movie the backrooms and what we saw in the movie and the internet lore and all that stuff but also the backrooms as a as a placeholder symbol of what we're talking about these territories right um are they a hidden world within our own okay which we talk about a lot

another realm where tangible monsters quote unquote monsters exist and occasionally come after us you know and sometimes that manifestation comes from the other side to here uh the bridge The bridge zone, I want to just kind of maybe draw this out a little bit. Let me read this first. The bridge zone between two realities where humans slip through the cracks and meet the guardians, these predators that are on this other side of this veil. The word parasite just keeps kind of parasitic. Like they're just, ugh, you know.

But they're on the other side of humans slip. through. And I want to use the bridge here for a second because I didn't know, and I still don't know how to totally express it. But when I did episode, Jack probably knows it better than I do, what episode number it is, but the Desert Portal Death Colt episode with James, he has this experience where he slips into a different reality. And he's here, but he's not here. And I say that a lot with this kind of stuff. And there was another guy who contacted me who had the same experience in Joshua Tree where he slipped into another existence. He was at Joshua Tree. He was in Joshua Tree. But what he was experiencing there was far more of a spiritual nature, cloaked entities

coming up to him, talking in unknown languages for four days. And then he reappears here. And that was covered on the news. They're like, where were you? We searched here. He's like, I was here. You just couldn't see me. You know? And so there's this, if you want to look at this physical reality, and let's just call it Second Heaven Reality, whatever that is, it's not an alignment one and the same. There is a difference, but they're very close, but there is this little bit of a gap because I look at it as like an overlaying, you know,

but there are two distinct things, which means that there's a connecting point, and I call that the bridge. and people find themselves on this, this bridge. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. And so, go ahead. So, no, I don't want to derail you because I actually have a totally different train of thought. So I'll let you go and continue. Then I'll come back. Okay. Sounds good.

Thank you. Hey, see, that's what I'm talking about. He's looking out from my brain. So this idea of, this bridge, it can be so smidgen. And I used this, when I was talking to you guys earlier, I used this example of, let me pull it up here so I can say it accurately.

The time between sleep and waking, okay? It's a very, that's a very small, like, in our understanding, it's very small. You're asleep and now you're awake. You know, it could have a bit, really fast or could happen maybe in seconds where you're groggy, you're coming through, that gap is the bridge. And people find themselves on these bridges where they're here, but they're not here. Or let me get back to what are the break rooms. Could they not be physical at all?

Okay. But rather a mind bridge, a psychological doorway where consciousness steps into another realm through the architecture of the mind. And I say it like that, and now I'm going to reverse engineer it, because when I say a psychological doorway where consciousness steps into another realm through the architecture of the mind, that's consciousness stepping into another realm. But the other realm can step through to this realm, through that consciousness. It's really weird. It's really weird.

It can be like the Sandman in your dream, right? Like the aspect of an entity that can touch into your mind and then create, like, thoughts. Like those Netflix series. Yeah. Did you watch that whole series? I just watched the first season was the only good one. Okay. I watched.

I remember it got dry as it went on. I don't think I finished it either, but I remember like the first episode was like, what? Yeah. I was like, I know this guy! Well, so like that concept isn't original in that series because like, what's his name? Freddy Kruger. The Saman series? Yeah, the Saman series.

Like, Freddie Kruger's an entity that is in somebody's dream and can actually kill him in real life thing because he comes back through the dreams and kills him. Yeah. So it's like there are multiple examples of things like that. Yeah. And whether it's like a physical death or the spiritual death of somebody, like where my brain was going with this liminal space backrooms thing, like if you look at it not as a physical place, which we're going to touch on, I guess, even more physical type. concept of it. But like if it's spiritual, like these things, especially in the series that's on YouTube, like at first they just consume the, they like, you know, almost like a venom style from Marvel comics. Like, they consume the person and wrap around them. And so it's like, is this

an example of when you enter into this space astrally or spiritually or something like that where you're either, you know, if we take it back to like biblical principles, if you're playing with stuff that you shouldn't play with, you know, are you going to get consumed by these things that wait for you there? You will. You know? You will.

I almost wonder if the things that are waiting for you in that space are actually the demons themselves that are attached to you. And because they're in that realm, they're free to then come after you more freely. And then did you go to them? Did you stumble across them or did they call you? Mm-hmm. It's fair. Yeah, we're going to get into that for sure.

I got stuff to unpack there too, so. Huh? I got stuff to unpack there too. Yeah. Go ahead. Jimmy, go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. So me and one of my friends, I don't know if he wants to be named, so I'm just going to keep him nameless. We went to this place called Elkmont. I don't even like to say the name now because it just everything that happened. one instance we went into one of the abandoned buildings there and it was like we walked through and everything just went silent like deathly sound I mean you could hear your own heartbeat it wasn't just me it was him also he could it was like a deafening silence and this is abandoned building there's no windows and there's no reason why we wouldn't be able to hear anything it's the old abandoned town right yeah like yeah out in the park and um so we're in there and it's it I just I just

didn't think about this until we started having this conversation, but it's essentially like I went somewhere else. I went to a place that was not here because, like I said, everything was completely silent. And I truly could hear my own heart beating. That's how like you're in a vacuum chamber or something, you know? And I mean, that, it's just, I had entities follow me after that just seemed like everything in my life just went downhill

after that situation and all the same thing with my friend he actually had it worse than I did but yeah it's it's I mean it's just like something

was there but like you were saying is it something that was there or because I crossed over I'm seeing these things that have always been around me and now they you know

since I'm looking into that they're you know Looking back. Looking back. Yeah. You're bleeding the realms so they're able to, like, show themselves differently than I ever have before. And the longer, the danger, the danger, a danger in it is acceptance. So I'll use me as an example.

And I have this in my notes, this concept, but we'll just hit now and maybe repeat later. when I went to that guy's house before I started podcasting and I'm expecting to talk to him about God because that's what he invited me for and then everything turns sideways and I'm experiencing like demonic spiritual attack for the first time of my life live in the moment for three hours I walk away from that

and I felt different and I didn't know I didn't have words for it but I didn't understand there's nobody in my life that would teach me this stuff this well before a podcast but there was something that came with me maybe more than one thing

and because I didn't understand it I didn't know how to combat it and so it just existed with me and it existed and it existed and it existed and it existed and then started taking you know a spot on the shelf in my in my life and just existed there and it wasn't always in my face but it was always there and eventually i got to the point where i don't even notice it it's just part of the decor in the house it just sits there. And then

nine, ten years later, I am at a conference and I have somebody praying over me and it was like this deliverance that I had experienced. I didn't know how to explain it then, but it left.

And I remember realizing it was like, I haven't felt like this since the day I went to that guy's house before I got to his house. And I had got to his house. uncomfortable. I became numb to its existence with me. It's cohabitation with me. And that is something I think a lot of people go through. And when you go into these spaces, if we can just wrap our mind around, whether it's going to a Satanist house and talking about God and being tricked and all that,

or going to Elkmont where it's abandoned and empty, no matter what you think is there or not there, there's this underlying thing there. And that is that, like I said in the beginning, that feeling of dread, that feeling that you have that bubbles up is because your consciousness, your spirit man is realizing,

it's overriding the logic that says there's nothing here. And it's saying, nope, remember, we felt this before, there's something here, you know? And it's that spidey sense. It seems to correlate a lot with even like Bigfoot encounters, right? Like people have like, all of a sudden, the whole forest goes quiet or they get lost because they can't, like it seems like they're looping. You know what you mean?

Like what if they're actually going into these other spaces in the middle of the forest and experiencing what they're experiencing in a second heaven almost liminal space as opposed to in reality? It's the overlap. And they're encountering him in the overlap. Yeah, I mean, like, there's that, that, the concept of that with even missing 411 and everything like that. And to the point of the other guy from Joshua Tree, who was missing for four days and then came back. If we consider these things to have a physical barrier, and it's not just a spiritual astral projection of something like that,

it is a possibility that there's so many different connections with even Bigfoot encounters, dogman encounters, the missing people, missing 4-1-1, alien encounters, all this stuff. So, and times. Twice now you said about the idea of spiritual and physical. And in the movie, you see that play out. And I don't think most people will view it that way. But when he walks through the doorway, he's in a physical, he's in the building. He walks through the doorway.

And it's still physical. but there is this spiritual transition that happens that you visually see. I don't know people are going to see it that way, but in my mind, it's depicting once you're in that liminal space, the back rooms or wherever we're talking about, I've been trying to tell people the spiritual realm is very, very physical. And in the movie, it depicts that.

He had this transition of a spiritual, from physical to spiritual, territorial-wise, but when he's in the spiritual, it's still very physical. Does that make sense? Oh, yeah. I mean, like, even in the movie Insidious, there's a clear depiction of something like that where they walk through a red door,

which is in their mind, it's in an astral. That's the Nephyrna Cullen card, don't you know? A red door? Yeah, the color red. Oh, yeah, well, there you go. So it's a Nephalm door that they walk through and they enter into the liminal space, into the astral realm.

But like it's showing the physical barrier. Like even in the mental, not mental, the spiritual state where somebody's astrally doing something, there's still the barrier for them in that entry, right? Like, look at for my experience, right? It was in the, it wasn't even astral.

It was like a, what's it called? Out of body. Out of body, lucid dream. That's what it is. Like I was walking towards the door. You know, it wasn't even like an intentional decision, but it was the curiosity of the state of mind. Like, it's maybe even not having the presence of mind to recognize the state that you're in and entering into that threshold. Because it's like the threshold, like even in your house, right, it's the same thing.

You mark your thresholds with anointed oil, with anointing oil. There's a purpose for all of that because you're protecting from the things to enter into your threshold. There's a spiritual component to all of it because it's a same. sanctified. It's a special area. It's supposed to be maintained as holy. You know? And so it's that same concept where you walk through that threshold. You haven't, you know, have you protected? Have you been protected? Are you engaging with something that is, you know, unsavory? You know, unsavory. Yes. Un savory. Yes. I just threw off the groove.

No, actually, you were saying something and then my, I had a thought. And then you said something else, and I lost that thought because you said something that got me. And now I can't remember what you said that got me off my thought. Welcome to the brain of Tony. Can I input something real quick? It's really interesting that when we were watching this movie, right, and it seems like it's endless. It is a labyrinth, right? It's a maze.

Like they don't know which way to go. You go into a new room. You don't know what the new room's going to look like, what the escape hatch is or the next doorway or what's around the corner, what that's going to look like. And that's kind of like that awe and like shock of when you're in this space is you have no idea what to expect. And that's why the movie does such a great job like psychologically because it's always like triggering all these different emotions all the time, you know. But historically, there's the Greek mythology of the labyrinth. This is really interesting. It says was built to contain the minotaur, a half man, half bull creature born from unnatural desire, deception, and divine judgment.

spiritually the labyrinth can represent the inner world confusion temptation trauma sin bondage and the long winding path of the soul the minotaur represents the beast within part of the humanity ruled by appetite rage violence lust shame or the primal instinct and so the only way that thesias can actually defeat the minotaur is to enter into the labyrinth so like you can't defeat it unless you go into the maze itself right into that realm yeah and then it's really interesting of the labyrinth, it says it is the soul's place of testing. The minotaur is the hidden beast of fallen nature. And then the victory is deliverance, self-mastery, and free from bondage.

So it's just really interesting that's high over, because I think we see that in the movie as well, in this whole sphere of it, is that there's so much self-reflection of the person himself in this movie. And as you kind of reflect on it that way, he's just really retelling this. own like awakening. It's interesting how they correlate the physical world into this realm, you know, because there's definitely like a whole aspect of that that we have to cover. Where does that mythos come from? Greek mythology?

Yeah, Greek. So it's interesting to me that that's the correlation, right? Because what else does Greek mythology have a bunch of the gods and all of the different rulers that they would, you know, whatever, the representatives of their gods and everything? if we look at that and we see the representation of, you know, the bad gods, you know, raw and Hathor and all these things consistently repeating themselves throughout human history, would that not be something that they would manipulate and turn into, oh, you enter into this liminal space at this point and you have to get to the end of the labyrinth to defeat and have self, you know, what was it? What did you say it was? Like, be a better person. You can now conquer yourself. Self mastery. To have self mastery. So this is how you get there.

It's just a trap. It's just a trap to get you into this because you think you're doing something better for yourself. Yes. No, absolutely. In fact, down here I said, where is it? Where is it? Where is it? Where is it?

Gosh darn it. Go ahead, Jason. It sounds like, you know, the whole path to enlightenment nowadays, you know, where, you know, you have these gurus and stuff that take you down this path of enlightenment where you, you know, you know, chant, you go into your own mind. Sort of the same thing, you know, you're going through the lab of self-discovery or whatever they say, you know. Yeah. So, go ahead.

So we're jumping down on my notes here, but I do have this line, which goes with what Jack says here. The enemy that we're talking about offers a door that leads deeper into the maze. And then the phrase came to my mind. When I wrote that last night, the devil's and the details. Yeah. So the deeper you go into the maze, there's more details. And that's what sucks you in.

You get lost. the weeds. Go ahead, what you're going to say? No, it's just really interesting. I think in the movie, too, is like he does go deeper and deeper, and then he ends up in, I think, what was a replication of his own kitchen to re-experience that roleplay with the doctor.

Right? So he ends up finding within that realm deep within the labyrinth, deep within the back rooms, he finds the place of his creation, essentially, where he's going to, basically, the beast.

is the monster in his mind is the wife and that's who's the confrontation he needs and reality it was himself it was himself and on top of that to the point spoiler spoiler so on top of that though to the point that I think somebody made earlier I don't remember who it was about accepting having the acceptance of being in that space like he just he confirmed to himself I accept who I am I'm not going to change. So, yeah, it's, yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm thinking out loud and I wasn't trying to cut you off. I'm sorry. Oh, no, that's all I was saying. It was just that like, like, we're talking about, like, accepting the fact that you're in that place, you know, earlier in the show here. Yeah. And he was a clear representation of, I accept that. I'm here.

I want to stay here. I want to stay as I am in the same, same position. So let me get back on track here because I literally have five segments. and I'm still in segment one of my notes. You guys weren't hungry, right? You didn't want to watch today? But I wrote down here, whatever they are, meaning the back rooms, they represent liminal spaces, which is what we established, right?

And I hope we're establishing that for you as you watch and listen, that like these backrooms, the idea of the backrooms in the movie and other type of backrooms that we're talking about, it is this representation of a liminal space, which is the in between places, the places that should be empty but are not, and more and more people are finding them. And that's something that they acknowledge even in the movie. And we have seen over the last decade, I have seen over the last decade doing this show, the more I start connecting dots and understanding just signs, like calling cards, right? I see that.

There's more and more people finding these spaces. And to me, it's like, it tells me that there's warring kingdoms that are getting ready to collide, that they are colliding. And I hate to bring back season five of Stranger Things because that was a terrible season. But the depiction, and I can't remember the, the Vecinole world. What was that world? Do you think I remember? Was it upside down? No, the upside down is the bridge.

Okay. The upside down is the bridge. Oh, that's the bridge. So there's this reality, and then there was like the world that Vecna and the thing, whatever it was called. Mind flare. Mind flare existed in. And he was trying to bring that world and collide it with ours and make them one.

The upside down was the bridge between the two. And he was trying to destroy the upside down so that the two could collide. wide. Where's I going with that? Sorry. Who was talking before me? And what did you say? Anybody?

I don't remember. It was liminal spaces. Yes. Oh, more people are finding them, right? Yeah, yeah. The worlds are colliding, right? So it's like that, though. So in that season five,

He's used, they, they picture it out, they draw it out, they show you that world coming down and they're trying to stop it from colliding and essentially eliminating the upside down, you know? And that's what seems to be happening as time goes on, more and more people slipping through. There's this collide that's a collision that's possibly coming. You mean like in a physical sense? Well, as physical as the spiritual realm is physical. So we, I'm trying to figure out how to describe this stuff because when I say it's physical, it doesn't make any sense in my mind when I say it anymore because the other side's physical too. Yeah.

So it's physical as I know it. But the other side is just as physical, but it has other properties as well. There's there's a metaphysical aspect to the other side that we don't have here, but both are very physical. In science, they say a lot of it could just be frequency. Like we resonate at a certain frequency. and that's how we perceive this realm. And so these other entities could be at a different frequency. And that's why we can't perceive them, but they can perceive us.

So it's like if those frequencies are merging, you right, then we'll have access to see them as well. And then you're saying access. It reminds me of that slingshot we did a couple months ago where the kids were like meditating and they were going into the rooms and all of a sudden they would see the black suit person. I forget the name of the game. I was trying to look on it real quick.

I could remember it. Red door yellow door. Red door yellow door. Yeah. And so, like, again, calling card. So they're accessing. Oh, crap. We got the red door, yellow door, and the back rooms is overly yellow.

With red. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Anyways. Continue. I'm sorry. No, no. So they're in the reality of the world.

I like finding little hints that I don't understand what they mean in the moment. I just get excited. I'm like, I don't know what it means, but there's something there. It means something. He's excited. I'll tell you about it next year when I figured out. But so this movie, everyone would say, is like sci-fi horror, right? It's more in that realm.

But we know that they already have come up with a game that allows children to access and meditate into this realm. They're going into these spiritual realms. They're going into the second heaven layer. And they're accessing these exact type of criteria that we, see in the movie. And it's a fun TikTok game, right? Yeah. And so like you're saying more access. And it's like they're putting their psychological energy into these things. They're creating the agroar. They're creating these things to be physical and manifest themselves in the reality of our world. Yeah. And so it's it's like these these what you're saying in that case, but also

the theatrical stories, movies, TV shows, digital folklore, I was saying earlier. It's like these things are engineering our reality. They're culturally engineering us. I believe that after this live show today, my friend, me and the team are going back to the movies to watch Disclosure Day. We're going to do that. And we're calling that work.

So guess what's the next week's live show is going to be on? But it's this engineering, right? It's this cultural engineering. There's this, I don't know how else to describe it, other than this engineering of a reality around us through this entertainment. And we often, let me just read this, because it's so funny you're saying that.

That's my second segment. I didn't even give my notes. And you were worried about me today? I was little, just a little. Just a little. But moving forward in time, what's coming will only be palatable for people who have been conditioned to accept it first.

And I think that's what we're seeing through these internet games that you're talking about, these movies. We're being conditioned to accept something through entertainment. It makes it, it makes the unbelievable familiar. And when the real thing shows up, people won't reject it. They'll recognize it and then accept it. And so I think that,

and I think people that tune into the show, you, the listener right now, I think you're kind of already on that wavelength and understanding that Disclosure Day, the movie, is not just a movie. It's 100% not just a movie. It's absolutely not a movie where he thought that, oh, you know what?

I think I should do a movie on right now. I mean, if you talk about, like, entrepreneurial spirit capitalize on the moment, right? But when you hear the interviews that he's talking about and what he's saying in the interview, views. We'll get into it next week, but like, it's absolutely a,

what this movie's going to be and the time that we're living in, it's a conditioning movie. It's a massage. It's going to massage the collective consciousness. Part of the disclosure. Yes. Yeah, definitely. Same with this. I think the this is the same. Backrooms as a part of the disclosure too. Oh, yeah, 100%. Yeah.

And as time goes forward, just like you hear people talk about, they'll be talking about something in reality. and they'll equate it to a movie that happened 30, 40 years ago, just like in the movie. And it's like they're not relating, are they? Maybe it's more of a question.

Are they relating their reality to a movie that they saw once before, or did that movie create the reality that they're living in now? So I'm not going to take any credit for this cool word because Isaac Wieshop used it on a reel. So props to our boy, Isaac, because he's really smart. It's called Hypertition. And so hyperstition is a cultural sociological phenomenon where a fictional concept is so widely believe that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

So it kind of goes into the whole gateway aspect of how they see the whole universe that we're all like these little like spheres of energy. And then we're tapping into the universal energy. And then all of a sudden it's like if we can all get our energies lined up that we can actually create like the tulpa, the agregor, we can start creating things from the other sphere because our energies are linking up with the universal energy and we're actually creating things into the physical realm. That's good.

Yeah. Yeah, because we were, we kind of talked about that earlier. I was saying how, you know, what came first, you know, have backgrounds always been there? Or are they appearing now because the internet is believing so heavily in it? Mm-hmm. that these areas are thinning and opening up to these areas, you know? Both things are true. Yeah.

Yeah. It's like, yes, and. Yeah. Absolutely. So we've kind of established different liminal spaces. I just want to run through this list. So I have a list of spiritual-ish liminal spaces, dreams that feel like another realm. Somebody was talking about, it was Jack, I think, talking about the lucid dreams that he has, right?

And even, and we have not hit on this on the show, but it's something that I wanted to talk about at some point. Scientists are now saying that your dreams are not just dreams, but it's literally you having an experience in another realm. I don't know if it's another existence that you're living, but this is becoming a thing that is being talked about now amongst the scientific community. It's no longer sci-fi. And so understanding that moving forward, that your weird brain and suspicions are now being, either confirmed or looked into by the brains of the world. And it's, again, the collision course. It's on its way.

So another one, it would be time between sleep and walking. A season of spiritual warfare that you could have would be a liminal space between the before and after the warfare, right? And we were talking about the fasting and praying. That could be another. type of liminal space. Like you go, you're, and I had a hard time even describing it to you when we were, before we went live, but it's like if you're going into prayer and fasting, you're removing the food. So you had, you had this diet that you're now removing, and you're

replacing it with prayer, which takes you into a deeper spiritual existence and understanding while you're doing this. And it's like you're entering into a spiritual liminal space. it's not empty, but it's also like the reverse of that. So like we walk into a liminal space and the lack of energy reveals that there's something there hiding under the surface. Well, the reverse of that is when you're going into prayer and fasting, you're not doing the lack of the energy that's revealing. You're bringing that, you're bringing that spiritual existence and understanding to the forefront and magnification. It's what you're seeking. Yeah. So like, that's like sweat lodges. Like that's the same idea. They like go into these like little

huts and then they do the sweating and the chanting for hours and hours. And they're thinning the veil between the realms. Same thing. Like I had a buddy of mine who was a pastor. He did 40 days fasting. And he said he felt so spiritually connected. But in the same way, he was also insanely like, I felt like the enemy ended up attacking him so heavily because again, the veil is thin between that realm because of the fasting. So it really like begins to break our physical existence in help us in tune with the spiritual realm. So, office buildings, physical places, schools, empty schools, you know, I was in a hospital once in the basement doing a delivery when I was driving a truck, empty, void of energy.

It was liminal space, right? Churches. If you're used to going to a church on Sunday and everybody's there. Everybody's worshiping, there's preaching, kids are running around, and then you go to the church on a Friday night at 9 o'clock at night. Little, you know. I had a dream, and I didn't realize that at the time,

but looking back on it, it certainly feels like a back room's liminal space type dream, where I was at the church that me and Jack, grew up in and I go downstairs and I and I didn't have I didn't have any weird feeling, scary feeling as I was in the lobby going down the stairs into the basement of the church. I go down to the basement of the church and it's a big open reception area and my dad's standing there and he has this dead stare, right? And I say, hey dad, what's up? And he doesn't acknowledge me. He's just standing there staring, just empty.

And I'm like, okay. And then there's an office to my left side. And that office grew dark, like almost like a black mist darkness came alive. And it comes out. The darkness comes out of this office into the reception hall where I was standing. And it knocks me down and it drags me. cross the floor into the office. Well, I would say that that dream was like a liminal space, right?

And it was empty, but there was one thing in there. I'll say it that way. One thing in there. And it was representing my father. But it wasn't my dad. And when in the movie, that is actually something that, happens. It's these vessels that are depicting a memory, but it's not the memory itself. It's not the thing or the person. They're just empty. They're soulless. And when I started wrapping my mind

around that last night, when I got home thinking about the movie. And then that dream, I was like, dude, that dream itself was like a liminal space. And that's when I started thinking about the spiritual side of this and the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, liminal, liminal dream, or not little dreams. Lucid dreams. Um, but, yeah. So, I'm going to keep it moving here. I think I actually, it's funny. I think I actually covered a lot of this stuff, uh, throughout this conversation.

Um, yeah. I jumped around a lot. Uh, but liminal spaces being second heaven. Um, um, I think that there's something in the human existence, our makeup that recognizes that emptiness as something that we don't intellectually recognize. And I think maybe moving forward as the worlds collide, we will come to recognize it more consciously. Can we get into the bit of the scientific worlds collide aspects? because it's interesting in the backroom's lore

that they actually say that the initial technology was from Oak Ridge, Tennessee. And then they use that to create this doorway in California. And then the doorway begins to allow these other aspects open up all around the area of the lab. Right? So in the movie, it was the furniture store. You're right.

That becomes a doorway. like an open spot for them to access this realm, right? And so it just means, like we talk about CERN all the time. We talk about the hydron colliders, like what they're doing to open portals and to create this like drifting between the realms. And he did a lot of really good research, I think, preparing the back rooms scientifically because there's a lot of really interesting tieovers

to the truth of what they're doing. And they are creating portals or creating these back alley access points to the second heaven realm into these bridge areas. And I think people will have more and more. Like you said, it's going to be more and more accessible to people. You know, as we, like they say, the collective, like unconscious, like this realm begins to move everyone to pursue it, just like the red door, yellow door game. That they're doing things technologically to also rift the realm over.

So we will have more access to it in the future. What's interesting is that CERN is shutting down this month for four years, I believe. And it's, you know, they fired it up like, what, two years ago again? I think it was about two years ago, two, three years ago. And now they're shutting it down again. And it just makes you wonder when they shut it down, they lock what they brought in here. Yeah. You know, like, oh, they're shutting it down.

So now with nothing else coming through, maybe everything came through already. And they're shutting it down so that those things don't go back. Yeah. Right, or they shut down because something got out and they messed the lab up. You know what you mean? Like there's things breaching over that they don't control and they're portaling these things over. I mean, we had that happen. I was told not to talk about it anymore.

You got the hard no. Oh, everybody's like, I hate when he does that. I'm sorry. The government tells you to stop talking about something. You start talking about it. No, just kidding, it wasn't the government, but it was close enough. It wasn't the government. Oh, man, you're baiting people hard.

I love it. I'm not even trying to. That's the thing. Just, yeah, okay. So I think that you, I think I wasn't done going down the spiritual route, though, Derek. So we'll go back to that. Go ahead, sorry. because I think that there is a real mirror to what happened in the movie to the demonic realm

and the masks that these things wear, right? So in the movie, like this legit, like probably spoiler. So if you made this far, congratulations, but feel free to roll on out here. But these things, so he has to. enters into this and we can actually we can actually do the tech here too um so he enters into this liminal spit not Siri I'm sorry serious talking me now he entered is into this liminal space and the liminal space is like a a brain at least it acts like a brain and it holds memory uh and the way that was discovered was through technology uh the the one character

reveals that his company who sold MRI machines with that technology discovered this other brain territory. And they've been studying it ever since. And in this brain, nope, viewer count didn't drop. So congratulations, guys. In this brain, it's like, so I talked about the neural pathways earlier. And the traversing, it's weird because this brain will depict your memories, but not accurately. But if, like, I'm there and it's doing this to me and Jason comes in, he is now experiencing my memories as well. It's a bit of a mind trip. Yeah.

But whatever this thing is, it remembers, and what it remembers, it remembers, it remembers people and it's kind of doing what the demonic will do so this will take your memory and reflect the memory back to you the way it wants you to view and remember that memory and that's what a lot of times the demonic does where it's taking you're you are made in the image of God and It's whispering in your ear. It's putting you in depression. It will create situations in your life that get your mind off of you are a child of God and get you viewing yourself as what it wants you to view yourself as.

And it will give you, in these memories of who you are, gets skewed by the phenomenon itself. And you see that played out in a very tangible physical way in the back. rooms, but it's very much what the demonic tries to do to us on a lifelong war that we're living in. Does it make sense?

Anybody who doesn't watch the movie, they probably I have no idea what he's talking about, so he's not spoiling anything. But there's a real, I think there's a real case to be made that when you're crossing over into that liminal space

and you're now in this voided area, where you're being exposed to the thing that hides me under the surface, that thing is going to try to depict you as to what it wants its own will and not the will of God. And so I wouldn't say this is like a religious movie, but I think that there are deep spiritual ties to the movie, if that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, the enemy comes to what, steal, kill, and destroy. Absolutely. And so that's kind of like the depiction of everything that we see.

see when they go into the backrooms is that that is what is achieving it's it's stealing and corrupting and destroying memories of self-value like all these things and like we talked about the labyrinth like you have to become like the self-mastery right but like through jesus christ we have that access to like overcome because it's not within us it's through him that we have the strength and the holy spirit to overcome all these things but when you're stuck in this space you're only stuck with your own mind and your own mind energy and your own memories. And so, like, there seems to not be aid for them. Yeah. So I have here, we have this, like, counterfeit idea, right? And so, you know, there's a counterfeit being presented as to who you are. And the back room

shows the counterfeit as a shell of what it's depicting. So, the characters that we saw there, they were just shells. Like my dad, my dad in that dream was just a shell, you know, of a depiction. It can't feel, it can't fear, it can't carry a spirit. It represents an idea, but it's hollow with no real life. And the counterfeit always lacks the one thing that God can give, which is your soul, your being who you are. He knew you before you were in your mother's womb.

And the counterfeit can't replicate that. Well, somebody would argue with that. But, yeah. So let's, how far we, how long have we been going? We have been going for one hour and 32 minutes. Oh, okay. We got about three more hours left. You go for three hours?

I'm good. Okay, cool. Cool. Yeah. Derek, you go for three hours? Oh, if my bladder can hold, I think we'll be good. If you got a guy If I have to get up again, yeah.

So let me, let me, I want to hit on one of the liminal spaces from, maybe we won't actually. We'll see. But I do want to come down here to this idea because Jack was kind of hitting on it earlier and we're kind of just dancing around it. But the counterfeit, if you let it. So this idea of the counterfeit, this empty shell

and the phenomenon behind it that's presenting the empty shell the counterfeit if you let it will make you feel at home and comfortable you know you will get used to it like I said about the guy that I went to his house

nine 10 years it was just something that was on the shelf I got used to it I was comfortable with it you get attached to to the deception so this might I may not

portray this accurately but the counterfeit becomes a a piece on the shelf. And it just exists there. But it's like, you don't, like you have things in your house that you don't think about, they sit there,

but you don't want to get rid of it. You know, it's there. It's just part of the environment, you know? And you say, hey, we don't, we don't ever touch that. We don't ever look at it. Just get rid of it. You're like, no, I like it.

It's just, it's there. And that's what, it feels like the counterfeit becomes. It becomes something that you can actually get attached to. And this is what I was telling you guys earlier about how I feel like when it comes, and I'm not a deliverance minister and all that, but like it feels like there is at times, I've talked to different people that have resistance to the idea of deliverance that is not a theological resistance. It's an emotional attachment resistance. It's like they believe that deliverance can happen, but they're just not. ready to take that step to do it. And it's, it feels like it's a part of them. They don't know what life is without it.

Yeah. It, it's, if that goes away, they will be unrecognizable. Because it's, it's, they've become comfortable with the deception. There's a Gable Price and friend song and he goes like, you can't kill your demons if you make them your home.

You know what you mean? And that's like the same thing. It's like you have to actually be willing to separate that aspect of your nature or like that struggle within yourself. But again, like you say, people get so comfortable and identifying with that as their, that becomes part of who they are. And so it's like, how can I exist? Who am I if I am not this? Right? And that's a lot of like the psychological struggle in those areas. Yeah. I think it's, I think it happens a lot for for a lot of people, you know. And maybe not even deliverance, but just practicality. Like there's a lot of. I think it's, I think it's, I think it happens a lot for for a lot of people, you know, and maybe not even deliverance, but just practicality. Like, there's. Like, there's. There's. There's things that maybe about you that you don't like that you, that, that aren't good. Let's not even say you don't like it. There's things about you that aren't great, but you just come to accept it. That's who I am. You know, we're going to, it just is what it is. We're not even looking to change it because it's just, it's me, you know? There's plenty of examples.

I could probably call myself out on for that very thing, you know. but in the movie it's really depicted quite clearly when the one character he says um spoiler of it right

he says I don't think I want to change this is what Jack was referring to earlier he said I don't think I want to change I feel like I'm right where I'm supposed to be and you're it's like the steak is fake matrix side of things it's like

this is fake it's not real It's a good pull. But you're, it tastes better. It's comfortable. There's no resistance. So I don't think I want to change anything. Can I spoil?

Like, so spoiler for anyone. But when he goes into that room and there's just like that lone Christmas tree in the dark, what if that is actually a replication of it, a memory from him as like a early child? Because that's why everyone's around the table, like in red and all like the whole Nephilim. tie into things. And it's very twin peaks-ish and the moments as well. But, like, that could have easily have been a repressed memory that he had to go and walk through.

That's just why we see those same entity characters later on with him. Did they ever establish who the wheelchair guy was? They were, I think, alluding that that was like, because it was everyone's different memories, it was possibly other people's memories. but I think it was his memory, and I think that's my personal interpretation of it. Interesting. Okay. Yeah, that's one thing I couldn't figure out either.

I was like, who, how does this fit in? Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, they were strange. Yeah. So you were talking about the maze idea, and it's funny because I have this here, and this is my announcement to everybody,

you need Jesus. because you go into these mind mazes or tangible real mazes, you find yourself in between things, you're on this bridge, and the further you go into this maze, the further you go into it, the more you can't find your way back. And the proverbial back, what is back, right? It's like in the movie, it's back to the building, but it could be back to anything. You know, you're talking about spiritual, liminal spaces, and it's a maze. And the further you get into it, the more you get attached to the phenomenon and the deception,

and you get comfortable with it. And you walk these dark hallways, spiritual dark hallways alone, and you get comfortable with the environment. You get comfortable with the surroundings and stuff. All of a sudden, like I said earlier, the devil's in the details. And you get further into those details, and all of a sudden, you don't know how to get back home, you know? And so there's there's a real And this is why like when I When I talk about the

The documentaries and stuff that I was doing and the journeys Like I still want to go on journeys But there's there's more guardrails than ever before Because I'm understanding that You could walk through a door and enter into a maze And not even realize it until it's too late.

And you would describe that earlier. And I've been there. And I think a lot of people get there in different ways, you know? And maybe sometimes it's just literally the content like a show like this, it peaks your interest. And you start reading. You start looking at things. And all of a sudden you're down this maze that you never realized you even entered that door.

Right? And though the maze you get lost in, like Christ is that door that you find hope in and that will get you out of this labyrinth and back into the safety of his arms. And so I think that as much as this backroom's liminal space is theatrical, there's a real tangible manifestation in the spiritual with this idea.

And people can, maybe if people watch this movie, they can actually see the spiritual side after watching, or watching listening to this show. And maybe it will unlock things for them that will then get them to remember that one turn to get back to that doorway that they can walk through. and find safety. Yeah. That makes sense?

Yeah, totally. All right. I'm going to bring this in for a landing before I ramble on anymore. Jack, do you have anything else? Because it looked like you were about to say something, no? No, I'm good. Yeah.

Okay. Derek. I just last thing that was, I thought, really cool, was we were talking about the red and the nephalum and that idea, the calling card of the nephalum. We're not done yet. Okay. Sorry.

No, go ahead. I forgot about that whole with that. I skipped that segment. Well, it's just so interesting Because even in like the Christmas tree area That was like super red And then like the other entities that were around They have like a red lamp

And then there's the lady dressed in red And like all these red symbolism in the yellow realm It's really fat What is he laughing at me for? I don't know what I'm doing I was gonna sing lady in red Oh you should have done it Just go for it

Let's hear it I'm waiting No go good Oh come on But you know You were making that correlation to what Laura Sanger talks about is like the Nephilim red. And like, of course, this would be a realm for the Nephilim. Like, if you're talking about in my theology, a disembodied spirit that's roaming and looking for a place to what, like, and what's crazy is you actually gave us some really cool scriptures, Tony, before we started in Isaiah, that actually reference spirits looking for places to dwell, right, in abandoned places.

So, okay, go ahead. Are you ready? I'm throwing it back to you. Oh, I thought you're going to do the scriptures. Are you going to read the scriptures? Sure. Do you have those scriptures? Yeah, I got them up right here, here.

So Isaiah 1321, we're ready. Chemistry. Isaiah 1321, but desert creatures will lie down there and howling creatures will fill her houses. The owls will dwell there and wild goats will leap about. And what's crazy is the howling creatures is, oh him. Is this the one? Is this the one with Lilith? That's not the one with Lilith.

It's 3414 is with Lilith. Yeah. But like these Hebrew words, like the howling creatures only used once, but it's talking about filling in the house, right? It's filling in the endwelling in a place, right? Where people once dwell, these things will inhabit. That's essentially what it is. Like people once there are gone, and that void is filled now with these things.

And you're talking about like Sators, but like 3414 and wild animals shall shall meet with hyenas, the wild goat, seer shall cry to his fellow. Indeed, there, the night creature, Lilit shall settle and find herself a resting place. Right. So we're easily tying in this idea of Nephilim, spirits, things, like in these realms, looking for the abandoned places. Kind of like where you were even, when you went to Oakmont, you know, the same ideas. Like, those are abandoned places. So that's why we have, I think, these creepy feelings is because, like, they actually look for places to dwell with that have been abandoned.

Yeah, so that makes so much sense because, you know, that was such an active place in the past. And it's very dilapidated. Another thing, I have a friend who goes there a lot. It makes content there. And he told me once that he feels like he's called there. Like, it calls him back. He has dreams about it. Wow.

And it just beckons him. Well, it's kind of like the guy in the backroom's movie, too, though. He kept just spending more and more time, and he kept getting more and more comfortable moving into that space until he almost becomes, like, one, in a sense, you know, in his mind with the space. Yeah, definitely, yeah. It's really interesting.

Yeah, so I think Isaiah, it's talking about there's like a judgment, Edom. The Oracle against Edom, I think. Yeah. But it's basically these ruins, they don't go empty after judgment. They, they, they, they, it's a, it's a vacuum that gets filled. And so, yeah, I don't know. That was, that was good, that.

I forgot about that. So Laura Sanger talks about the Nephlem have calling cards. And one of the calling cards is the color red. And the Nephlin red calling card. idea is that the red marks a took them off and i got to put him back on the red marks a trail of bloodline corruption rebellion bloodshed exploitation sexual perversion debt slavery and anti-god systems

while also having a holy opposite in the blood of jesus and so she talks about this this uh red calling card and a couple of times now somebody has mentioned like red door somebody was mentioning Red Door. Who said? Jack mentioned the red door. Yeah. And what was the context? Do you remember? Movie. Insidious. Insidious. Okay. So like if you start, you'll start seeing these

the color red pop up, you know? And I just did a I did a weird, I don't want to say weird because I think they liked it. But it was a random watchalong that did from the members for an episode one day where I think

I think what it was is that Ricky who was just here, he we couldn't connect or something. And I just found myself in front of the computer, and I started doing this watch-along thing. And I landed on Dr. Laura Sanger's first interview with me, and I call it Nephilim Mind Virus, and she talks about all this stuff.

And it was a shifting paradigm episode for me. I remember it was like a page turner in how I, I was viewing things. And the color red is, her describing is like a calling card and you start seeing it everywhere. And I didn't even realize this when I was looking back at this episode, but we did an episode. Shout out to John from 21 CD podcast.

People should definitely go check his, he has great work over on YouTube. And for listening to audio, I'm sure he does audio too, but he has awesome stuff. You should check his stuff out. But he's been on the show a couple times. And the first time he was on the show was episode 582. And I called it Wendigo something. Wendigo Woods. Wendigo Woods. And it was a two-part episode. The first part, we talked about this encounter he had with a Wendigo in Wisconsin. And then we did an overtime where we talked about this warehouse. I think it was a warehouse that he went into.

his brother doing urban exploration and they go in and it's i think he said it was downtown wisconsin or wisconsin that's a state uh milwaukee um i think that's what he said but they go in and they're exploring this place and it is 100 percent like a liminal space it's empty and you're exploring this this place that once had this energy right well as they start climbing this building different levels, things start getting weirder and weirder and weirder. And he comes across a level where, and I think

this, I think he came across this first before what I think I called in the episode, a portal. But he came across a, and this is like a, just think about like an old industrial warehouse that the floor is just one big open

room. There's no, there's no offices, it's just big open. And, there's nothing in it. It's empty, except for a red chair sitting in the middle of this room. And when I saw that, I was like, a calling card. Yeah. But then there's more red that pops up. And I think I had, Jack, do you have that? If you could play the red calling card clip, that'd be good. We're taking some photos and everything's great. And then we decide, you know, okay, we're done here. We're going to go up to the next. one and this is where it starts to get weird because when we exit onto the fifth floor

there it's the same layout every layout here on out is the same except in the middle of the room like if you come out of the stairwell and you just look across the room there's just a single red chair one chair just sit there's just sitting sitting in the middle of the room. And it's like, okay, I guess, you know, like, it's bizarre because there's been nothing else so far, like that stuck out.

But this was a clearly intentionally placed chair. Just in the middle of the room. Who sits in the middle of a massive room like that? Like, why wouldn't you sit next to a window? Or why wouldn't you sit next to a wall or something? I don't know, but it just seems weird to stick a red chair in the middle of a room. It's very, very intentional.

The second thing we notice is against the wall where the stairwell is. So we come out of the stairwell directly adjacent to us on our right is a massive set of red doors. and I don't know if you've ever seen like those Cold War um fallout shelters have you ever seen those so these huge doors are they're like they're like the entrance to like a medieval fortress

massive doors and they're painted bright red and this is another thing that was weird about this this building it's like every second floor had these had these doors and some of them were button up tight padlocked there's no way to get in and others were wide open. And why are there fallout shelters on upper levels? You would think that if there was going to be some kind of fallout, some kind of bombing,

you would want to be as low as possible. You wouldn't want to be locked in a safe, in a vault on some upper level. That's at least my non-engineer, non-architect point of view. So we found that kind of strange. And then the third thing that was bizarre about this level was there was a single ceiling fan that was clearly aftermarket. It had been put there, and it was on.

It was spinning. And right to my left is a light switch. And I flick the light switch, and you know how you can hear current? So, like, I could hear the power go off. I knew the fan was going to stop spinning eventually. I was like, okay, that's what this is. goes to, I guess there's power up in here. So I just flip it back on. I don't want to cause, I don't want to leave any sign that I was here just in case. So like I flip it back on and me and

AJ are just kind of like, wow, that's, that's pretty weird. But odds are this is all from the people who were cleaning this place up because the place is immaculate. Like everything's been swept. There's a thin layer of dust across the entire floor and all the surfaces, but it's not, it's not like dirty like cluttered there's not piles of garbage or you know sawdust anywhere it's it's clean aside from that that that layer of dust that that makes it um evident that people haven't been here recently so what say you that's really what kind of building was this it was like an old industrial building just a random industrial building and yeah random as in like abandoned and um it kind of it kind of shows this idea of the red though right and and

Laura says that it's a Nephlam calling card to color red. And she specifically says red marks a trail of bloodline corruption, rebellion. And so could in a weird, and you're going to hear more from this episode here in a second, but in a reality shifting event, a paradigm shifting event, liminal space entering event, could the red chair be a calling? card could it be a waypoint, a marking, a sign of rebellion, you're entering into the rebellion, you know, the red doors. You're entering a threshold.

You're going through a threshold getting closer to the rebellion. It's the waypoint. It's the marker, you know? So he said some of them are open. Did he go into some of them? Oh, yeah. And he explains it. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. They went all the way up, bro. All right. You didn't listen to this episode before? It was an overtime. I might have missed it. Man, this is a good one. It sounds awesome.

It was really good. So, as they, this is like where he's, like he said, it gets weird, right? Then it's like, it's like, you go past the waypoint, the red marker. It's like, turn back now or else, right? And then they enter into what I, I think, I probably described it on, on the, audio I'm not sure but some kind of portal threshold crossing and they crossed it and they visually saw it and so if you could play that that jack that would be ideal ideal there was something about the door it was I don't the best way that I can describe it is it felt like if you take your

hose like a sprinkle and this a spray on the of your hose a spray nozzle and you put it on the mist setting and you sort of just spray it and you kind of look up sort of add to the sky and you know how it's like rainbow sheams it was kind of like that the doorway all around the doorway so not like in the shape of the doorway but it it looked like there was a translucent sort of mist and it was very water like not in the air in the the air and I attributed it at the time to dust. It was so faint and frail that I was just kind of like, this is just, this is just dust on the sunlight. And when we were coming up, I don't know if it's because the fan was spinning or anything or something like that,

but it was a just ever so slightly noticeable rainbow color across the whole, doorway and not anywhere else just kind of floating there like a like a giant like a cloud almost and you had to walk through it yeah but we didn't think anything of it because did you but I'm sorry did you feel anything when you walk through it no didn't feel anything and that's why it never it never registered at that time that this could be anything more than dust. At the time I noticed it because I was worried that there was maybe asbestos or something in the air.

So I noticed it when we walked through, but nothing happened, nothing changed. There was no weird experiences until we got to the next level. and when we got to the next level, this is kind of connected to the portal thing, maybe it's not a portal, that's the biggest mystery of this thing. When we got to the next level, there was this huge machine in the middle of the room.

And it was a gigantic wooden, it looked like a gigantic wooden pinball machine. But what it actually was, was a grain processor. And what would happen is people would throw various grains into this thing. And there were these balls that would then be bounced on what looked like some conveyor belt things. And it would basically separate the grain from the chaff. That's what we kind of found out in later research.

We take our cameras out to go and take pictures of this thing. It's a gigantic, beautiful, like mahogany colored antique machine. This is right up our alleyway. And for some reason, it's situated in the middle of this. room just like the chair was. Our cameras are completely dead. Did you take pictures of the chair? Didn't take pictures of the chair. Did you think to take pictures of the chair? Not really. At what point did you realize your camera batteries are dead? As soon as we got out on this next floor after the chair floor, the quote unquote portal floor. Did you take any pictures before that?

Mm-hmm. So their devices die as they cross this threshold. And talk about earlier about how the industry, Jack, can you turn the headphones down while? I'm talking, throwing all things. The movie industry, designing culture, designing reality around you, how many times do you see that, right? Where it's like your devices die once you cross a threshold. And that's essentially what he described. They had this like misty thing. going around a doorway, which I still can't picture in my mind what it actually looked like. And not only is that weird, but all their devices are dead. And at some point that conversation, he made a point to stress that everything was charged,

and now it's all done. And so that happens all the time with this paranormal stuff, you know, draining of energy out of your batteries. So did he enter into another world or realm and that energy that took to do that, drained the batteries? He did enter into something. He did enter into something

because the next clip is going to be, I still don't understand other than he unknowingly slipped into a liminal space and it was half accurate. Very weird. Go ahead and play it, Jack. It's not getting dark,

but it's clear that the light outside is sort of shifting into late afternoon. And we look at our clocks and three hours has passed at this point. And we have no idea how that time was lost. At that point, we just attribute it to the fact that we have lost, just lost time. We've just been in here for a long time and we can't figure out what's going on. We lose track of time as we're trying to figure out what to do next.

And that's not really horrifying to us at that point, but we're getting to the point where we realize that if we're not careful, we're going to end up being here at night. eventually the sun will go down. And if we can't get out in another three hours, we're going to have another problem, which is we're going to be in this thing at night. And that becomes our next big fear. So we end up trying to figure out what to do. We just decide that we're going to try to run down the stairs as fast as we can.

So we start descending. We're descending extremely quickly. we do every now and then glance into the rooms as we reach them to try to see if we recognize anything and there's nothing and this is the this is the last part that I'll give you that sounds truly ridiculous and we reach a window in the stairwell we look out the window and this is this is absolutely bizarre I almost don't want to say it we are looking at the building that we originally entered out of the window. The building you thought you were in?

The building we thought we were in, we see it out of the window. So you change buildings. In other words, we're in a different building. And it sounds ridiculous saying it out loud. and this is one of the reasons that I told you before I got, but when I first got here, like telling this story is going to feel terrible for me because it's, I cannot explain that.

And it's, it's even weirder than the prospect of possibly walking through some kind of thing that may be changed reality a little bit, that doorway, situation, it becomes this thing where it feels like it doesn't feel real. Is that it? Oh, must have you the wrong time stamps. That's my bad. I could just listen to John forever. I mean, he's such a good speaker, the way he speaks and shares. Just sucks you in. Yeah, he just does. He just sucks you in. But, I mean, members, they listened to that show a long time ago. But I think

This is probably one of the most clear liminal spaces that I've ever had talked about on the show. And I didn't have that context back then to even suggest. I can almost guarantee you liminal spaces did not come up on that recording. It was one of those recordings where I was just like, this is so bizarre and I don't know how to think about it. Like, not even define, like, I don't know how to think about it, you know. And so he has this experience. And part of this experience, we don't have to play this clip, but part of this experience is that they discover technology outside of that old machine.

If I remember correctly, it was on the top floor, and there was like a security camera and wiring or something like that. Or the door was locked. I can't remember exactly how it all happened. I'm pretty sure he said that there was like some kind of tech, though, that gives you this vibe of like this was almost like orchestrated. It was, it was like when you feel like you found something, but in reality the phenomenon called you, you know,

like I referenced in the reference that earlier, it's something like that where it's like you, you find a building and you're like, hey, I think a good idea would be go in it and explore it, but what if the building called you and you didn't know it, you know? and you were you were there the whole time doing tricks that were pre-designed for you to do.

Yeah. You know? So that that reminds me of, you know, in the film, spoiler alert, there's that cardboard cut out. It's, you know, has that recording, he's playing all the different languages. But it's like it was calling him to that room

and that room had the security camera in it. Oh, yeah. It was watching him. Yeah, yeah. With the wires going up over the door. Yeah, yeah. So that's very similar. It's so weird because, like, we say this, and that sounds like, okay, it's a physical place, but it wasn't.

And at the end of the movie, you find out it was like this hybrid. Yeah. And it's just, it's wild. But, yeah, so that's John. That's John. And go ahead. You know, so do you think he kind of like no clips to the other? other building when he walks through the portal and he's actually upstairs at the other building.

That's a good point. Right. So he's at the almost top floor and then he sees this translucent rainbow cloud thing and then like pops over to the other building and thinks he's going upstairs again. Yeah. But he's actually already in the other building. Yeah. Because I think towards the end of the episode when they're trying to get out of there,

man, I was trying to scrape my brain on this. when they came in going down was not an option but to get out it was the only option and they had to go down to the basement or something like that to get out.

In the other building? Because they already had switched buildings. In the other building that's still the same building we don't know kind of thing. In the timeline of his story he

I believe I believe he said that when they went in going down wasn't an option but I feel like he said he went down they went into the basement to get out I think that's what the case was it almost sounds like a like if you put mouse

or mice into like a science experiment they're the mice like they were intentionally clipped like from one place teleported to the other building and then had to work their way out and it was like all funneling them intentionally, right, to see everything they were supposed to see. Yeah. It's a wild story. It's a wild story. And his brother came in with him a second time. I don't think we actually covered that story, though, did we? I don't think so. If we did,

we maybe touched on it briefly. But yeah, some cool dudes right there. All right. Well, listen, let's wrap this up because we have to we have an hour before it would be at the movie theater to watch Disclosure Day. Any expecting thoughts on Disclosure Day? Oh, man. It's going to be wild. I mean, I have a lot of thoughts on it. I just can't verbalize right now because my mind is just like, I have expectations. Yeah.

But, you know, is it going to be that or is it going to be something completely different, you know? Are they throwing us off, you know? Oh, right. So like we're expecting maybe like this, they're going to break through with some kind of revelation that it's like, oh, now that makes sense. Yeah. Right. But like it's all a ploy to get us away from the truth initially and to like make us chase our tails essentially. Yeah.

So that recording in, this is interesting too because it ties in is that recording with like the caveman is actually the Voyager golden record. And that's what was played where the Voyager went out in space. And it was like welcoming the space brothers that are out there. From the movie. From the movie. That clip is the Voyager Golden Record that gets played out in 55 languages and gets sent out into the middle of space. Interesting. So look how the scientists are interpreting what this realm is.

It's the same kind of entities. And we see that bleed over again and again and again, don't we? Where this interdimensional being is also thought to be a space brother somehow, right? And those realms are bleeding into each other. And I think that's my expectation for Disclosure Day is I think that it's going to have a bleed over into interdemeanor. dimensional beings. Yeah. And I think Disclosure Day is going to be a very much an engineered film for our culture.

And even Spielberg himself has recently been saying such things. I have some quotes here. He says, is God our God only on this planet? Or is God a God for every system where there's civilization? That would mess a lot of people up. that's the wrong clip that I have here. But he talks about people that are of the faith having to grapple with what they believe

after they watch this movie. And I'm just like, I'm sitting here thinking, I'm pretty sure I got a lot of heat on a global level like a month ago because I suggested such a thing with disclosure that there's a deception coming that's going to be so great that people who are not not firm in their faith could be swayed. That's right.

And then you have Spielberg coming out and saying, oh, no, I engineered this film to do such a thing. That's right. Like, I engineered it to do that. Interesting, isn't it? Yeah. And this isn't even, quote, the disclosure. You know, the official disclosure, this isn't even that.

And he's saying, oh, no, my intent is to do that. Well, so since we're almost done, but I was listening to John Lear's old interview, and he actually mentioned Spielberg for Close Encounters of the Third Kind, which he made in the early 80s, and he actually mentioned the MJ12, the Majestic 12, and there's actually like the ones in charge of giving information to Spielberg to make the movie. So like him being kind of like a tool of the orchestration of disclosure

has been around for a long time. Yeah, so it says here, Spielberg says that his upcoming film Disclosure Day will have Christians, quote, second day, guessing their beliefs. He says, quote, Christians will question their faith. And that should tell you everything you need to know. Yeah. I'm going to go in there and I'm going to come out of there, fired up to tell the world the truth. That's right. About their truth. Here's my truth. The War of the Truth. It's War in Kingdoms, friends. Go ahead and pre-order my book today on Amazon. Is the link in the description? I believe it is. All right, friends. Listen, I

appreciate you guys tuning in. And if you made this far, I appreciate you putting up with the spoilers and the conversation. I did more prepping on this show than I have almost on any show, and I hated every second of it. This was not fun. I will never do this again. I am going to riff because I am the riff king. And this planning thing is for somebody else. Derek was so excited when I said I was going to plan for this show. He's like, yes, finally. And I'm like, this is. Because now all I'm this is the same thing that happened when I the very first time I preached. I planned so much that I basically read my notes, so

I hit everything that I was thinking before I went up. It's better if I just go and just do. That's what I'm just going to do for now on. This sucked. I hated it. I thought it was good. It was a great conversation. No, it was terrible. I hated it. No, I just felt like I wasn't myself.

I felt like I wasn't myself because I was trying to follow my notes and that was throwing me off. Well, practice makes perfect. I will not practice this. again. I'm going to just come on here and say, guys, I have ideas and bear with me. Let's go. All right. Friend, thank you very much for watching this. I really do appreciate it. And just remember, I love you. I'll see you guys. Bye. When devil, too, bro.

Walking the spot like who that? Standing in the slang and the truth slap. Never in the way we moved dad. I'm a name for the hit like a du wreck. I'm stuck in the valley that view bad. Now I'm up in the hills with a food bag. God took all my elves ran through that. Now the wind stack high like a new stack.

Every step with the light, that's a blueprint. Whole pack getting bright cause he doing it. He the king saw the crown got a new fit and the cross hit harder than a new clip. We ain't here just a body, it's a movement. Every giant in the way he'll move it. If the world want to hate, we cool with it, because the love is strong.

To the tree life. Boom. Can't miss snow. in the dirt now I'm cleaned up blood bout brand new never dreamed up every thorn out of stone trying to team up got 50 thousand in here feeling beamed up I remember them nice in the struggle feeling way down deep by the trouble but he showed up strong bro the muzzle now the fake billed bit like a double we're here for the frame of the flag no cap in the well don't run dry that's that that facts now we run another pat with a show step every swing once we're like