The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - 25 to Life for Murder — How a Crip Leader's Own Lawyer Betrayed Him

Starting point is 00:00:00 Unlock unlimited free grocery delivery with PC Express Pass. Shop online and get the same low No Frills prices delivered. Get your first year of PC Express Pass for just $2.50 a month. Learn more at no frills.com. So your decaf oatmeal extra but not piping hot, four pounds of caramel, no sugar, small latte, and a large cup. That will be 10 minutes. No worries. I'm having fun on Playojo.

Starting point is 00:00:25 And I keep it fun with all the latest slot and live casino games. Plus I get instant payouts with no minimum withdrawals. Here's your decaf oat milk extra but not piping hot. Ah, thanks. Playtime's over. Mmm, lovely. Feel the fun. Play, oh, Joe. 19 plus Ontario only.

Starting point is 00:00:40 Please play responsibly. Considered about your gambling or that as someone close to you. Call 1866-531-2600 to visit connectsontera. Right after I got sentenced and went to prison, my lawyer was trying to sleep with my wife. I'm from North Dallas, Park Lane and Fair Oaks. That's the hood, too. I grew up game banging too.

Starting point is 00:00:54 You know what I'm saying? We became five dudes Hoover Gangster Crips. We was involved. to where we thought we was on a level like we was a mini cartel or something. I had about 30 guys running with me. I was mostly like their leader. So they was down to do whatever I tell them to do.

Starting point is 00:01:08 Man, I was selling drugs, man. I was getting in a lot of shootouts, shooting in people. Man, I was in them streets deep, bro. So now, my gangster switch cuts on. Grandma gun, cocky, pop. The guy reached for him and did like this, and by the time he did that, I shot. I didn't know the dude died.

Starting point is 00:01:27 I took the stand. My lawyer made me take the stand, thinking I was going to get self-defense and got 25 years. He was calling my wife, you pretty. Maybe we need to hang out some time trying to get with my wife. So the whole time he wanted me to go down. How many people who've been convicted of murder in the state of Texas have lived to see the free world again? Not many. That's the story of Floss the boss, a Cripp shock caller from Dallas who spent almost 20 years surviving inside the toughest prisons in Texas. Floss was a wild man, growing up as a hardcore five-deuce Hoover Crip from the age of 12 years old.

Starting point is 00:02:04 Drive-by shootings in broad daylight, crack-sling, and home invasions, and kidnappings were a part of everyday life for him and his crew. After catching a murder case and then getting screwed by his lawyer who wanted to screw his wife, Floss was sentenced to 25 years hard time. His stories from behind the wall and the way he ran every prison yard he landed on are some of the craziest you'll ever. here. Today, Floss is a free man with a budding rap career. Make sure to check him out on all socials. He'll probably be doing a show near you. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Floss the boss right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. Yeah. No, you look like a baseball coach. Yeah. Everybody be saying that. They're like, man, you're like a football player or something.

Starting point is 00:02:51 Man, you big. They be saying I'm big. I don't even feel like I'm big, bro. Is, are you naturally stalking? Or is this? No, I'll work out too. I work out every day. too, you know what I'm saying? Still, even though you've been home six years, you still keep that. I still keep their regimen, bro. Now my eating habits and got crazy, but, you know what I'm saying? My work out at things, I still work out every day. I said weekends.

Starting point is 00:03:12 So you're from Dallas, you know, Houston, San Antonio, even Austin, they have, like, identities. Dallas is like, we don't know anything about it, you know? Dallas is, Dallas, I want to say Dallas is more a cutthroat, bro. You know what I'm saying? Dallas is more hard. Dallas is more like everybody out to get everybody. Nobody respects nobody. They want to, it's more killing.

Starting point is 00:03:40 It's more robbing. You know what I'm saying? It's more cutthroat. You know what I'm saying? Really? It's more hood. Yeah. And I notice when I go to Houston, it's more like everybody together,

Starting point is 00:03:53 everybody support each other. You know what I'm saying? It's like a whole different culture in Houston. They got their own little culture. Right. Whereas in Dallas, nobody gives him care about you. You know what I'm saying? It's like, man, I'll kill him tomorrow.

Starting point is 00:04:04 I ain't worried about him. Right. You know what I'm saying? It's like everybody's trying to make a name for their self. Well, I know Fort Worth used to have some pretty heavy gang bang. Murder Worth. Yeah. So are you from Fort Worth?

Starting point is 00:04:14 Or you from Dallas? No, I'm from Dallas. But I'm being in Fort Worth a lot, too. So tell us where in Dallas. How did you come up? North Dallas. I'm from North Dallas. Park Lane and Furhows.

Starting point is 00:04:24 That's the hood, too. If you heard of, you heard of that at Rampermow 3? Mm-mm. You ain't heard of them. Okay. I'm from his hood, but on the Crip side. He on the blood side. I'm on the Crip side.

Starting point is 00:04:34 I grew up gangbanging, too. You know what I'm saying? Cripping? Yeah. Oh, shit. I grew up five dudes Hoover. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, so I grew up gang banging, selling drugs.

Starting point is 00:04:44 You know, the normal hood stores you hear from everybody that's been in the hood. You know what I'm saying? And you were rapping, though? Yeah, yeah. At the same time that you were gang banging and selling the shit? Because rapping was my outlet. To me, that was the way I was going to make it out the hood. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:05:01 And I had a talent for it. You know what I'm saying? So, but I just couldn't lead the streets along. I gravitated more to the streets than I did music. You know what I'm saying? So I was looking at rap part-time and looking at the streets damn near full time, 90% of the time. And when you do that, you're going to eventually get caught up. You're eventually going down.

Starting point is 00:05:21 You don't want to rap about, though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I've been through a lot, bro. My whole life, you know what I'm saying? I'm talking about from just crazy stories. wouldn't believe. You know what I'm saying? But a lot of shootouts, a lot of, man, everything, bro. I'm going to tell you, dog, we talk about it. We can get involved in it. One time I thought I

Starting point is 00:05:41 thought I was dead. I thought they was going to kill me, but if they were smart enough, they would have finished the job. But I figured in their mind, they already thought I was dead. What happened? I was coming down Harry Hines in Dallas, and a great, a great tenant, you can't even see in the car. It was like limo tent. Pulled up on. the side of me at the light. And I happened to look over and all of a sudden the windows came down and they started shooting up my car. Well, as they shooting, I hit the gas and I'm trying to,

Starting point is 00:06:10 I can't see over the wheel because I'm trying to duck at the same time. So I'm jumping over a curve, running in this thing. I'm just like, oh, they got me. You know what I'm saying? And they shooting the car up. So I churn like this and ran right into the hotel wall. Boom. So in my mind, if they were smart and some real killers,

Starting point is 00:06:28 they would have jumped out, finished the job. But in my mind, I'm thinking they thought I was dead already. The way I hit the wall, they probably like, oh, we got them. So they took off. Came out of there, unscathed. Didn't get hit? No, no hit at all. You know what I'm saying? My car was to fuck up, you know what I'm saying? But

Starting point is 00:06:43 I didn't get hit at all. And I knew I knew right then. I said, yeah, something got to change. I got to do something about this. I can't live like this, man. Did you find out who it was? Nah, man, I was into it with so many people, you know what I'm saying? Over a drug deal going wrong to

Starting point is 00:06:59 Just street shit, it could have been anybody. I never found out who did it. I didn't take time to see because once the bullets start hitting you, that's the last thing on your mind is, who's doing this? You know what I'm saying? What's up, everybody? A lot of you have been asking how you can get on the show. Here's the deal.

Starting point is 00:07:15 If you think you or someone you know would be a good fit for the show, email us. Connect podcast bookings at gmail.com. That is the only way to get on the show. I don't check my DMs very much. I oftentimes miss messages on Facebook. So you got to shoot me an email. Connect podcast bookings at gmail.com. Let me know why you or somebody you know would be a good fit for the show.

Starting point is 00:07:41 Tell us your story and then give us a way to get a hold of you. We check that all of the time and we will get back to you. Once again, it's connect podcast bookings at gmail.com. And we will leave a link to that in the description of the episode. All right. Let's get back into it. Did you get shot ever? No, never.

Starting point is 00:08:01 I've never been shot. All the shoot, I'd have been in probably three or four shootouts and never got hit, bro. God is on my side. And I'm not trying to jinx myself. Forgive me, Lord. You know what I'm saying? I ain't bragging. I ain't doing none of that.

Starting point is 00:08:15 You know what I'm saying? Thank you. You know what I'm saying? But you hit some people. Yeah. I definitely did that. I definitely did that, bro. And then that's crazy, y'all.

Starting point is 00:08:26 I definitely did that, man. several times, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I regret it, but I mean, you know, it took me to go to prison for me to realize, yeah, you fucked up, bro. You got to get your shit together. You know what I'm saying? Prison saved up, man.

Starting point is 00:08:42 If a person tell you prison ain't saved them, it's no hope for them. Prison saved me. Because if I didn't go to prison, I'd be dead right now. That's how, you know what I'm saying? That's how thugging you were. I know I'd be dead right now.

Starting point is 00:08:56 prison saved me. You know what I'm saying? And I thank God for it. I hear a lot of guys be like, oh, man, I had all that time. Man, man, what you expect, bro? You do the crime, what? You do the time.

Starting point is 00:09:10 So you can't complain about it. You know what it comes with this shit. You either going to go to jail or you're going to die. So what's the complaint? And I just get tired of hearing people say, oh, they killed so-and-so. They was wrong. And, man, he didn't have to die like that.

Starting point is 00:09:25 but you ain't talking about what so-and-so was doing before he died. What about the people he shot and what people he did stuff too? So he wasn't a saint. Did you see that with people that got murdered? They were also killers? Yeah. Yeah, they were straight up murderers, man. So I don't have no sympathy for him to be sitting here like,

Starting point is 00:09:46 man, they shouldn't have killed him, man. Because he was going to kill him. You see what I'm saying? But everybody always see the good, like they want to see the good side of that person. which is cool, you know what I'm saying. It's good to, you know, reminisce upon the good stuff that that person was, but you gotta look at the bad stuff he was doing too and why he got killed, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:10:06 So in your neighborhood, like it's Bloods and Crips in Dallas. I don't think it's that way in Houston. They got Bloods and Crips in Houston. Really? Yeah. Huh. So was it like funking with other Cripsets or was it your neighborhood versus the Bloods? Well, the gang that I'm in, we not loved by Crips are bloods.

Starting point is 00:10:25 You know what I'm saying? We hovers. We just now adopted the Crip title to our name because at first we was Five Duce Hoover Criminals. You know what I'm saying? We was anybody killer. You know what I'm saying? We're going against any gang, anybody.

Starting point is 00:10:39 You know what I'm saying? So when we adapted on the Crip moniker, you know what I'm saying? That's when we became Five Duce Hoover Gangster Crips. You know what I'm saying? So we beef with bloods. We beef with every gang you can think of. You know what I'm saying? Like I said, man, we like, we like,

Starting point is 00:10:54 we're the biggest target, you know what I'm saying? Still, like in California, too. If you check California, the Hoover's is the biggest target. You know what I'm saying? That's because we don't get along with no games. We don't like no other games. We all by ourselves, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:11:10 But things are changing. Time to progress, man, and things are changing now. You know what I'm saying? Things are getting better, bro. Yeah, I mean, there were Hoover's in Portland, Oregon, where I grew up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's definitely Hoover's down now. I've been there before. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:23 Yeah, it's definitely Hoover's. It's hovers down there. It's in Denver. It's really hoover's all over the world. You know what I'm saying? We big, man. You know what I'm saying? How many strong were you? How deep were you in your day when you were running around? Yeah. Oh, man, boy, we was deep, bro. We used to go to the mall and terrorize the malls. You know what I'm saying? We was, man, we was tripping, bro. We used to do some crazy stuff, man. You wouldn't believe. You know what I'm saying? And in our mind, we thought what we was doing was right. We thought we was doing good. We thought we were doing, yeah. Yeah, that's how confused and conflicted we were. We actually thought we were out. And we robbed somebody.

Starting point is 00:12:01 We were like, yeah, man, we did that. We got the money. Yeah, yeah. We gaster. You know what I'm saying? Not knowing the cause and the pain we caused to hurt that person. You know what I'm saying? So what we do?

Starting point is 00:12:11 You robbing drug dealers? Man, we rob drug dealers. We don't hurt no women of kids or nothing. But we rob drug dealers. Any way that we can hit a lick to come up, we're going to do it, bro. You know what I'm saying? we're going to do it. If you pull up in a nice car and you flashing Rolex watches and big chains on

Starting point is 00:12:30 and you got all this money like you doing it, you might want to, you know what I'm saying, rethink coming over this side, bro, because, man, somebody's going to get you. Are you talking about, like, carjacking or dragging people on that? Yeah, we don't carjack. Man, I don't carjack people. Man, I don't have did it all, bro. You know what I'm saying? I had no idea Dallas was like, I mean, I'm ignorant, you know, but.

Starting point is 00:12:53 Yeah, Dallas, Dallas is it, bro. Dallas is about their life, you know what I'm saying? And Dallas is big in the penitentiary. You know what I'm saying? Dallas is the same way in the penitentiary, bro. We know for the best hands. We know for getting it in with the shanks, everything. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:13:09 It's just Dallas, bro. It's in us. So is Dallas? It's the way we was raised. Is that your car in prison? Is Dallas? Well, probably it'd be a Texas car if you was in the feds or something. But in TDC, you know, you know,

Starting point is 00:13:23 You don't have cars like that. TDC, you rock with your game. You know what I'm saying? So when I come to TDC and I see other Hoover's there, then they're going to be like, what you is? And I'm like, I'm five dudes Hoover. Then that's what I'm rolling. That's what I'm grooving with.

Starting point is 00:13:37 You know what I'm saying? Like that. But we don't have it in Texas prison, like state prison, they don't have like the feds do, like the cards, you know what I'm saying? Right. Yeah, it's all about your game. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:13:49 Yeah, I'm the New York car or whatever. Yeah, Washington, D.C. You know what I'm saying? Texas car to Louisiana. That's the only in the feds. I've never been to the feds. So how old were you when you caught your case? Man, I think I was 20...

Starting point is 00:14:06 I want to say I was like 25, 26. I was still in my 20s. Okay. So that's a lot... That's pretty old, though. Yeah, it is, bro. For gangbanging, that aggressively? Because that's what they used to say, man.

Starting point is 00:14:21 By 25, you're either dead. or in prison. Yeah, that's the thing. That's what they say. So I guess you made it right at the cutoff. Yeah. Yeah. I made it right at the cutoff, bro.

Starting point is 00:14:32 And, oh, man, yeah. What did you have going on at that time? At that time? Yeah. Man, I was selling drugs, man. I was getting in a lot of shootouts, shooting in people. Man, I was in them streets deep, bro. I'm not going to lie, bro.

Starting point is 00:14:48 I was in them streets deep, man. We took your trips out of town back and forth to, Oklahoma with the pounds and the cold. We was, man, we was involved deeply, bro, to where we thought we was on a level like we was a mini cartel or something. And I had a lot of guys with me. I had a lot of guys running with me.

Starting point is 00:15:07 I had about 30 guys running with me. You know what I'm saying? And they was down, I was mostly like their leader. So they was down to do whatever I tell them to do. So if I tell one of my youngsters, and these were youngsters too, that's why I was misguided. at the same time too because they wanted to be like me. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:15:29 So anything I tell them they would do. So if I tell them, say, that guy right there owe me money, man, he's been ducking and dodging me. I'm tired of it. Don't let him know what's up. They're going to come get you. You know what I'm saying? With no question asked, they're going to come get you.

Starting point is 00:15:45 They're going to kick in your door and they're going to put their gun in your mouth and they're going to give you. Look here, you either come up with that money or something going to happen to you or member of your family. You know what I'm saying? It was that deep in the streets, you know what I'm saying, at that time, man. You guys had the crack? Was it crack? Yeah, it was crack, coke, meth. It was all type of stuff. Yeah, I didn't really dabble into meth, but I had partners that did. You know what I'm saying? And they was trying to stray me away from the Coke and the crack because they was like, bro, I'm making so much. I think meth, a pound of meth back then was going for like 15,000 a pound. Something like that, bro. So they was like, man, you're selling the wrong. You need to be over here.

Starting point is 00:16:23 With this meth, bro, I'm telling you, my boy, churn me on it is ice. Men, these girls going crazy for it. You know what I'm saying? But I never did, I never did dabble in it. You know what I'm saying? Probably because I didn't understand the numbers of meth. I didn't understand, you know what I'm saying, what the prices was of selling meth.

Starting point is 00:16:40 So I probably didn't mess with it because of that. You know what I'm saying? Well, the crack was so culturally inner city, urban, black. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, it, I even remember that in the early 2000. I'm like, yeah, the meth is just like the dirty white people buy it and the Mexicans sell it. So it would, crack had culturally been.

Starting point is 00:17:02 Yeah, been mostly the thing in the, like, the black community. Right. So you would go to like a town and just open up shop? Yeah, we'll go to, our spot was Oklahoma. We'll go down to Oklahoma City or Laughton, Oklahoma, something like that. You know what I'm saying? And post up, trap out for a while. We can trap out of a hotel or if I had a friend down there, they'd have.

Starting point is 00:17:23 had a little spot. You know what I'm saying? We'll trap out of a dope feed-in spot. Pay him some money or give him some dope to let us trap his spot out. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Classic. That's the way it was. We was making a lot of money, man. We was doing good, bro. But like I said, all good things come to an end. And you're 25, so you're the OG. I'm the OG. And you got your young bulls doing all your dirty work. Doing all my dirty work, man. You know what I'm saying? I had them doing things that

Starting point is 00:17:52 I shouldn't have had them doing. But they was young and they was followers. They wanted to follow whatever I do, whatever I say. How is going to go down? They're with it. You know what I'm saying? Nowadays I regret it. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:18:05 As I look back on it, you know what I'm saying? But at the time, you're not thinking like that. At the time, all you're thinking is go. Money. Let's get it. Let's get this done. Let's prove our point to people. Let's prove we ain't to be messed with.

Starting point is 00:18:18 You know what I'm saying? Let's send a message out. Like, when you come over here, this is what it is. You know what I'm saying? You're going to die easy. You know what I'm saying? And I had started a little click called HBC.

Starting point is 00:18:29 It was called head busting committee. You know what I'm saying? Fire. Yeah, we had every man. I was like, I had t-shirts made, jumpsuits made, everything. You know what I'm saying? And I had all my youngest rocking it. They was like, yeah, we, HBC, we head busting committee.

Starting point is 00:18:47 You mess with us? We're going to bust your head. You know what I'm saying? And they were so proud to have this. moniker, they were so proud to have this, like, yeah, man, they felt like there was a part of something. And were you rocking blue? Yeah, yeah, I'm always rocking blue.

Starting point is 00:19:01 So you were flagging? I mean, I think I got a red shirt in my closet. You know what I'm saying? I'm strictly orange and blue. That's our color. That's Hoover colors. You know what I'm saying? Right.

Starting point is 00:19:11 So even back then, even when you were hot with the pounds of crack and all that, you were still flagging. I was still flagging. I was still gang banging. All the way through prison, I was still game banging, man. still going to ride for the set, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I can't believe, did you catch a case before the shooting that sent you to prison? Did you had you had any other cases?

Starting point is 00:19:31 I had a petty case when I was younger. I think it was a burglary of a habitation, like breaking in somebody's house and, you know what I'm saying? Doing it like that, that was a petty stuff, you know what I'm saying? But you didn't have a big felony, though. Mm-mm. I didn't have a big felony, so I caught that murder case. Now, I could have, all the shootouts I'd been in before that murder case, I never got caught for it, bro. Thank God.

Starting point is 00:19:52 You know what I'm saying? But I guess God got tired of it. He was like, no, this is enough. I got to sit you down. Y'all doing too much, you know what I'm saying? Because I started thinking I was invincible. So, you know what I'm saying? Were you just lucky or were you also pretty conniving?

Starting point is 00:20:07 Like, you sounds like you were smart. I was smart, man. I moved different than everybody else did. And I wasn't easily seen like everybody else do. You know how people like to be seen all the time. Want to be out at the club. want to be in the midst of everybody, that's a quick way to die.

Starting point is 00:20:24 Because if somebody looking for you or if somebody trying to get you, they're going to, all they know, I can go to the club this weekend. He's going to be there popping bottles or a section with full of girls. We can get him, you know what I'm saying? Whereas I stayed concealed.

Starting point is 00:20:37 I stayed at home with my family a lot. I was out of town a lot. You know what I'm saying? Where people didn't know me. You know what I'm saying like that. So, yeah. So you were a family man, too. Like you had a family by this point.

Starting point is 00:20:49 Yeah, I had a family. at the time I had a stepson and my daughter, Taziana, my oldest daughter at the time, you know what I'm saying? And I was, and I had a wife at the time, too, which we're not married no more. But you know what I'm saying? At the time, I had a Hispanic lady as a wife. You know what I'm saying? Good wives. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:21:08 She put up with all my boo-of-shut. You know what I'm saying? Boo-a-crap skewed me. She put up with all of that, bro. Yeah. He said, fuck, motherfucker, bitch, cock-sucker, Jew, whatever, whatever you can. So you're like compartmentalizing, you're gang banging, you're trapping, you're sending, your base shot calling, you know? Yes.

Starting point is 00:21:28 And then you're maintaining a family. What? And you're rapping still? Or you had you let rap go to the wayside? Like I said, I was rapping maybe, I want to say maybe 10% and in the streets 90%. And that's something that you can't do. You either going to do this or you're going to do that. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:21:45 It's like you can't choose to do wrong but try to do good at the same time. Like, yeah, I'm gonna go to church this week, but I still gotta sell E Dope and dude, you can't battle two demons, you know what I'm saying? I mean a demon in being good, you know what I'm saying? And at the time I was rapping, I would take trips out of town. Back then it was CDs.

Starting point is 00:22:05 So we were going to sell CDs too. Like we had a logo van with my CD covers on the side. And we used to drive and pull up to like car washes and stuff, jump out, sell CDs, pass out posters and all this. And at the same time I'm doing this, I'm like, say, y'all looking for something, y'all smoke, you know what I'm saying? I'm trying to sell drugs at the same time I was doing this, you know what I'm saying? To keep the money, you know what I'm saying, regenerating through the, you know what I'm saying, what I was doing. And, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:22:37 I did a couple of shows with a lot of major artists, got to meet a lot of major artists, you know what I'm saying? But I just wasn't taking it seriously as I posed to. You know what I'm saying? I was more keen to the streets. How can I flip this and get this? Or how can I can make this happen? Or how can I rob this dude? He talked about he got 300,000 stats in the house.

Starting point is 00:22:57 We need to try to figure out how to get in there and get that. You know what I'm saying? I was more on that. You know what I'm saying? Before I called my murder case. Did you have any big scores like that? The biggest score I probably hit, I want to say probably for, probably like 30-something thousand.

Starting point is 00:23:12 And that's because I robbed the gambling, the gambling spot back. You know what I'm saying? I lost my money. I was mad because I lost my money. Churning around, lift, came back and robbed them and got my money and their money. So actually it was over $30,000.

Starting point is 00:23:28 It was probably close to $50,000. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Tell us about the gambling spots. Yeah, the gambling spots is live, bro. That's where we go on the weekends. You know what I'm saying? It's open every day.

Starting point is 00:23:38 But I was mostly going probably like Saturday. You know what I'm saying? Saturday night when I ain't had anything to do, I'm like, man, let's go hit the spot. And we'll go hit the spot. hit the spot, shoot dice. They end up playing poker. They ain't there playing spades, whatever.

Starting point is 00:23:52 You know what I'm saying? And there's a lot of tables going on. You know what I'm saying? It's like an after-hour spot. You know what I'm saying? It's where it was the spot. It's South Dallas. In somebody's house?

Starting point is 00:24:02 Yeah, well, no, it was more, it was like an after-hours club. Well, a little hole in the wall, like little bar. I don't want to say it's too much of a club because there ain't nobody in there dancing. You know what I'm saying? Everybody in there trying to get money. You know what I'm saying? And in the back is where they got everybody playing. They got everybody playing cards.

Starting point is 00:24:20 They got tables set up, everything. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And, you know what I'm saying? We used to go there on the weekends, gamble, shoot dice. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. It was just this particular night.

Starting point is 00:24:32 I wasn't trying to lose. I was like, nah. I think that I got hit for probably like $7,000. You know what I'm saying? And I was like, oh, no, I ain't for to do this. I'm for the rob this. You know what I'm saying? And you just remember in your mind, you go, nah, I'm coming back here.

Starting point is 00:24:49 We ain't doing this. No, no, I got to go get my money. You know what I'm saying? And they don't get any money and everything. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And so did you say, all right, guys, I'll see you next week. And then you came back later that night?

Starting point is 00:25:02 No, I thought robbed them scuba. You went in there strong? You went in there, like, ski-masked up? No, I didn't even have a ski-mas on. You know what I'm saying? I went in there and robbed them. I went in there straight, like, look, I ain't playing this. this is what it is, come out the money, you don't, you're going to die.

Starting point is 00:25:18 You know what I'm saying? Period. I'm not playing no games. And half of the people that knew me in there and knew me from the street, they knew he's not playing. You know what I'm saying? So y'all better just give it up now and we deal with it later. Better to give it now and deal with me later than to die now.

Starting point is 00:25:35 You know what I'm saying? And you would have, you were prepared to go there? Yes. I was prepared to go there. Well, you figure you rob a gambling spot, an underground gambling spot, South Dallas, you better be ready to squeeze because somebody's a killer in there. Somebody's got to go. They're all killers.

Starting point is 00:25:52 But they knew. But if I got the jump on you, what can you do? And plus, you know, I'm going to kill you. So there's nothing you can do. But hey, let him get it. We'll catch them later. You know what I'm saying? That's where all the shootouts come in.

Starting point is 00:26:04 I don't ran in a so amount of people, certain people that I was there. And they was like, oh, I got to get him. And I'm not paying attention. Now they caught me slipping now. I'm getting my car shot up on the highway. or, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, ooh, man, you know what I'm saying? You're like, I wonder if this was the gambling.

Starting point is 00:26:21 Yeah, the gambling beef. Definitely, definitely. And I do, and who knows, they probably still want to kill me to this day. You know what I'm saying? But, you know, I changed from that lifestyle, man. I don't do that lifestyle no more, but, you know what I'm saying? That's got to be one of the most dangerous places in the street is to run a gambling house, like an underground gambling joint, bro.

Starting point is 00:26:41 Very dangerous. Very dangerous. Because the people you attract is going to be gangster. They all killers. They're all gangbangers. They're all gangbanging. They all big drug dealing. And they have no fear.

Starting point is 00:26:56 So you put in a butt, that's like being in a penitentiary and you stick in a person in a cell with nothing but a pod with nothing but lions. Right. So we all lines in here. How you think that's going to play out? Yeah, because they're the ones with the money. Somebody going to want to be the big dog. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:15 You see what I'm saying? And then same way with the gambling shack, man. You're sticking somebody in this closed space and a back of a club with nothing but lions. Eventually something going to happen. You know what I'm saying? So it's crazy, man. It is what it is. You guys are rolling 4-5-6?

Starting point is 00:27:32 No, 7-Eleven? Yeah, 7-Eleven. That's what I play. How big did some of those pots get? Oh, man. It ain't no limit. amount of money in there. It just depends on who coming there and who's ready to lose what they want to lose because I don't see him trying to be like 150,000. I don't see guys coming there

Starting point is 00:27:52 with a suitcase with their team with them. You know, they got about five or six killers with them case anything happened. They got 300,000 in a suitcase. You know what I'm saying? They're coming in there with big money. Do you have to put your guns up? Is that? I'll be having my gun on me. Okay, so they don't make you check your guns at the door or anything like that. No, no, no, I ain't never, I'm saying. Beyond the now that you say that, I ain't never been checked. You know what I'm saying? I never been checked for my gun. I always

Starting point is 00:28:20 go on there with my gun. I guess people figure, we all know each other, so they figure everything is going to be cool. You know what I'm saying? But like I said again, you in a cage full of lions. I mean... They figured wrong. You figure wrong. You know what I'm saying? I mean,

Starting point is 00:28:36 you got all type of different attitudes. And then in the gambling shack, everybody yelling, they arguing, they get mad about it. losing. Some people can't take it like me. You know what I'm saying? And you want your money back. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Today's episode is sponsored by Ridge. Now, many of you've heard me talk about the Ridge wallet. I own one. It is the best and the last wallet I'll ever own. But Ridge is much more than just a wallet company now. They're a full on tech company. I never realized how much I actually needed a solid power bank until I got the Ridge 5-in-1 travel power bank.

Starting point is 00:29:08 Now I don't leave the house without it. It's got built-in cables. MagSafe wireless charging, an Apple Watch charger, Lightning, and USBC. Everything's right there so you're not digging around for power cords. It's got 20 watts of power and a 10,000 MAH battery that can deliver up to three full phone charges. Clean design, built to last with free shipping and a 99-day risk-free trial and a lifetime warranty. You guys know your phone is always on red. You need a power bank with you in a pinch. when you need some power in your phone

Starting point is 00:29:42 and you're out in the middle of nowhere and your phone's about to die. You can't have that. You need a Ridge 5-and-1 power bank. Okay, from October 8th through November 5th, Ridge is running their friends and family sale buy two Ridge power banks and get the third free. Perfect for gifting or keeping one for yourself.

Starting point is 00:30:02 Tell you what, you've got to get these for gifts. Holidays are coming up. You need a stocking stuff or everybody's got an in-law that they don't like, but you've got to get them something. This is a perfect brainless, easy gift, and everybody will like it and needs one. Ready to get a head start on gifting this season, you can find Ridge's power bank at Best Buy in Amazon, but to get that buy-to, get one free deal, you have to go to ridge.com and use my promo code,

Starting point is 00:30:28 Connect. One more time, that's buy two, get one free at ridge.com slash connect. Head there to shop Ridge's friend and family sale where you can buy two Ridge Powerbanks and get the third free. That's ridge.com slash connect. Texas is just filled with criminals and grimy's just... I think it's more of just the way we grew up, bro. It's just, you know, when you grow up in poverty and grew up and never had nothing and never had a pot to piss in, no Christmases.

Starting point is 00:30:59 I remember times we didn't even have a Christmas. Christmas come around, we got no gifts, no toys, no nothing. I remember times when we was eating sugar bread for a week. serve sandwiches for a week on toast because we didn't have no money. My mama tried her best to do what she could, you know what I'm saying? To survive and for us.

Starting point is 00:31:22 You know what I'm saying? To the point that it was how she just sat up in a room and cried because we didn't have nothing. You know what I'm saying? And I think that fed my hunger for I don't want to live like this. I'm going to the streets. I got to make something happen.

Starting point is 00:31:37 Not just for me, but for my family. And where was dad? You know what I'm saying? Oh, my, I never had a dad. My uncle, actually when I got out of, when I got in high school, my uncle became my father. You know what I'm saying? My uncle, rest in peace, Roper Lee Hall. He became my father.

Starting point is 00:31:56 He started, he moved me in with him, started grooming me to be a man. Because you got to remember at the time, man, I'm in the streets. I started gang banging at 12 years old. you know what I'm saying? I start selling drugs at between 12 and 13 years old. You know what I'm saying? I was in the streets from then on to now, well, not now, but, you know what I'm saying? When I caught my case.

Starting point is 00:32:20 Did you have family in the streets? Yes. Yes. The majority of my family was in the streets. You know what I'm saying? They was either gang banging, drug dealing or doing something. You know what I'm saying? Crime-wise to get money because, like I said, we had nothing.

Starting point is 00:32:34 and working at McDonald's, you remember how minimum wage was back then. I think if I can remember minimum wage was, what, what, $5, $4 an hour or something back then? Back in those days in the 90s and stuff, how are you going to pay bills that way? How are you going to take care of kids that way? You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:32:53 How are you going to... A job wasn't going to help it. You know what I'm saying? And then the neighborhood that we was living in, we were from the projects. We're from the ghetto. You know what I'm saying? We're from where everybody had nothing.

Starting point is 00:33:07 You know what I'm saying? And most of the people that was in our neighborhood, that was what they was doing, either robbing, killing, stealing, trying to make a living for their self. Did your family give you the game? Do they show you how to get money in the street? I kind of adapted it from my uncles

Starting point is 00:33:22 as far as watching them and learning as being around when I shouldn't have been around. You know what I'm saying? I was exposed to more than the kids should be exposed to, I want to say. You know what I'm saying? I didn't have no business being around adults being a kid. And I think that led to a lot of things going on in my life.

Starting point is 00:33:41 You know what I'm saying? Sure. I grew up fast. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I grew up very fast, very fast. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:33:48 And I caught on quick. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I adopted that lifestyle for myself and ran with it and never looked back. Do you think you were more successful than your uncles and when it came to the street life? Well, I would say I was the more aggressive than they was. They was more, I want to say, they was more lenient and passive towards, like if somebody owed their money or something, well, we'll just wait until he pay it.

Starting point is 00:34:19 Me, I was the moron. If you don't have my money in the next day or so, I'm coming to get you or hurt whoever you with. You know what I'm saying? You're going to have that money or it's going to be a problem. I was more the aggressor out of them. You know what I'm saying? Taking no shorts.

Starting point is 00:34:34 Taking no shorts, bro, because I wasn't trying to hear it. And I always, like I tell all my youngans that was under me, I always led by example. You want to teach them how to do something, or you want to show somebody something, you always lead by example. You know what I'm saying? A lot of leaders were scary, I want to say. You know what I'm saying? They let all the youngians do their work. But in all actuality, they were scary.

Starting point is 00:35:00 They just didn't want to do it because they didn't. had a heart to do it. And I seen that. You know what I'm saying? I started seeing that at people. So they became prey to me. I was like, oh, he ain't gang sense. He's say he is.

Starting point is 00:35:12 You know what I'm saying? I'm feeling. I'm feeling. I'm saying? I'm feeling. That's who I went after. Because I knew you didn't have the heart to be a killer. You ain't got the heart to be like me.

Starting point is 00:35:23 So I'm a feed off that. So if you walking around here, time I'm out, yeah, I just hit a leg or I got 300,000, man, I've been grinding. Oh, yeah? Now you're my target. Lunch. You see what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:35:35 Now you're my lunch. I'm coming to get you. You know what I'm saying? I need that ASAP. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And that's who I targeted. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:35:44 Yeah. Wow. I would have been that kind of leader. Yeah. Got to lead by example. No, no, no, the other kind. Oh, no. Send people to do it.

Starting point is 00:35:52 I don't have a heart. I don't like violence. Yeah. And see, and with the streets, that's something you got to become. You got to become a different. type of animal. You can't be passive. You can't, you can't just let things go. Because if one person get away with it, everybody's going to start getting away with it. So now you're selling drugs

Starting point is 00:36:13 and you're trying to get your money. Now you got a bunch of people walking around like, man, I'll pay him when I get ready, man. I ain't worried about him. He ain't fit nothing. You see what I'm saying? So what's the point of being in the drug game? If you're going to let people go and owe you and don't pay you nothing. You know what I'm saying? So you got to become a certain type of animal to be like, nah, no, I'm going to have to handle this now. You know what I'm saying? Just to send a message I'm not to be played with. And you were like day one, 12 years old off the porch.

Starting point is 00:36:43 Like people try to get into it at a later age. It's like it's not going to work, man. No, man. I was watching Carlito's Way the other day. Remember what he says to Sean Penn after, you know, he takes him on the boat? They're going to rescue the mafia again. The mafia guy and they kill him.

Starting point is 00:37:01 Yeah. What did he say? He goes, you ain't a lawyer no more. You were gangster. You were a gangster now. You can't get a late, you can't learn it in school.

Starting point is 00:37:09 You can't get a late start. Yeah. That's it. You're a gangster now. Especially you just killed a top mob guy. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That's why he kept telling Sean Pied,

Starting point is 00:37:20 you just killed us. Because he knew the degree of the streets of where you then took it now to where this situation ain't going to end now. you're going to have to go 100% all away with it now. I used to think about that because like back when I was in the streets when we were selling weed, like, you know, mostly like white boys in like middle class neighborhoods.

Starting point is 00:37:41 We would get robbed sometimes. And then we would go rob somebody. But I would tell my dude, I'm like, my co-dee, I'm like, this all, it's fake unless somebody gets killed. Because it escalates. What are you going to? We're going to rob him back. and then he's going to rob us for more.

Starting point is 00:38:00 Like, it either ends with... Somebody's going to die. Either somebody has to tap out or somebody has to die. Yes. And that's when I was like, okay, we're never going to be involved in this again because to us it wasn't worth it.

Starting point is 00:38:11 Did you know, was there anybody in your neighborhood that was more, even more on 10 than you were? Somebody were you like, I'm not going to fuck with that guy. Yeah, I had a man. I had homeboys that way.

Starting point is 00:38:26 It was homeboys that was in my clique. that I actually watched close. Because I was like, man, I kind of don't trust him. You know what I'm saying? He's just too gangster. You know what I'm saying? What if he churned on me one day and decided to get me?

Starting point is 00:38:41 You know what I'm saying? So I always kept him at bay. You know what I'm saying? We was locked in close, but I kept him at bay. You know what I'm saying? Because I knew there was the type of homeboys. If you get into it with him,

Starting point is 00:38:53 somebody's going to die. It's either going to be me or him. They was that stone cold of, a killer that they didn't have no heart. They didn't have no nothing. They didn't care. It was like, man, killer be killed. You know what I'm saying? They even kind of gave me

Starting point is 00:39:09 a little nervousness of being around them. You know what I'm saying? Because I know they straight up cold killers. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So tell us about now you're 25, 26. Tell us about what happened. A situation happened

Starting point is 00:39:25 with a friend of mine who I look at as really like family, like a brother. You know what I'm saying? He was my best friend, but I looked more to him. We more looked at each other like a solid brother. His cousin that was living with him at the time, he had some bad drug deal happen with some guys. And a fight ensued in front of his apartments with him. They beat him up real bad.

Starting point is 00:39:55 They left to go get guns. They was like they're coming back, I guess, to get their money. His mom is in the house. My friend, mom in the house. You know what I'm saying? They was like they're going to come shoot up the house, kill them. They want their money. Whatever.

Starting point is 00:40:08 You know what I'm saying? I'm at the basketball court playing basketball at the time with a whole bunch of my people that's with me. He pulls up. He's beat up. I'm talking about they tore him up. I'm like, man, what happened to you? He's like, man, they're going to kill my mom. man, they're talking about they fit to do something to me.

Starting point is 00:40:28 I'm like, who? He's like, man, I just need you to ride to my mama house with me, man. He was scared. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like, well, damn, come on. You know what I'm saying? I tell my youngest, I'm like, come on, man, let's take a ride. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:40:41 In the midst of going to his mama house to make sure they all right, ran into the guys. Now, take it mind, I'm not knowing these the guys because I don't know them. You know what I'm saying? I've never seen them before in my life, so I don't know him. So out comes a car, as I'm coming down this way, car goes like this, like damn it hits me. So I'm like, I'm like, man, what the, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:41:07 So we turned and looked at them. They're like, what's up? What's up? You know what I'm saying? I'm like, who is, you know what I'm saying? Who is these fools? You know what I'm saying? Tripping like this.

Starting point is 00:41:17 So I'm asking people in the car, y'all know these fools? They're like, nah, I don't know these fools. So now my gangster switch cuts on. Now it's like, well, what's up? What you're trying to do? They like, pull over. You ain't said nothing, but they don't know who they're getting into it with. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:41:36 It's what I'm thinking in my mind like, ooh, y'all don't fuck. I'm fit to do something to y'all. So I whip over, grab my gun, cocky, pop, pop. I jump out the car because I don't want to be trapped in a car. I had a P-89 Ruger at the time, 9mm. I jumps out the car. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, what's up?

Starting point is 00:41:55 They're like, what's up, man? Your homeboy, woo-de-woo, woo-de-woo. I'm like, man, what's all that y'all talking about, man? Y'all talking to all this gangster shit. Now they didn't have got me out my zone, you know what I'm saying? So we back and forth arguing. Well, the guy in the back seat, he's trying to get out with his weapon. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:42:13 So when I caught it from my peripheral, I slammed the car door on him, bam, on his leg. So he tries to get back in the car, I'm slamming him, and I swing to try to hit him to keep him at bay. At the same time he's doing this, the guy reached for him and did like this. And by the time he did that, I shot. You know what I'm saying? Everybody in shock, they run to their car.

Starting point is 00:42:36 Everybody burn off. They burn off this way. We burn off this way. Boom. Boom. I take off. I go to the house. I tell my wife, I'm like, man, I just shot somebody.

Starting point is 00:42:45 Man, woo, woo, woo. She's like, man, what's going on? What are you doing? I'm like, man, I don't know. I got to get out of here. So boom, I take off. You know what I'm saying? I didn't know the dude died.

Starting point is 00:42:57 I'm thinking, you know what I'm saying? Because they took off fast, too, so I'm thinking he just shot or if he got shot, I don't know, you know what I'm saying? So you didn't even see him. I didn't even see. I didn't even see. Everything happens at the blink of an eye.

Starting point is 00:43:10 It happens so quick. You know what I'm saying? And once the shot took place, he was like, everybody was like, let's get, you know what I'm saying? So I actually didn't know the guy died maybe to like, I want to say like two weeks later. You know what I'm saying? So I'm at my dad house, well my uncle, which I call my dad.

Starting point is 00:43:32 I'm at his house. And I get a call from a friend of mine, and they're like, man, you need to go. I'm like, what is he talking about? So I call my wife. I'm like, man, come get me, man. Come get me. She's like, all right, I'm going to come get you. She's come get me.

Starting point is 00:43:51 We drive and I get another call. My home boy, like, hey, man. You need to get out of town, bro. I'm like, why? He said, man, old boy died. I said, what? He's like, man, just go, man. The old boy died.

Starting point is 00:44:03 I'm like, damn. So I tell my wife, I say, man, damn, the dude died. So she's crying. She's hysterical about it. And I'm just like, oh, man. So I'm like, damn, I got to get out of town. So I shoot out of town.

Starting point is 00:44:16 I go to Oklahoma where I'll be trapping at. You know what I'm saying? While I'm down there, another friend of mine, you know what I'm saying, while he was a friend of mine at the time, he calls me trying to set me up. He got the investigators and everybody at his house. So he calls me like, hey, man, what's up, baby?

Starting point is 00:44:36 I'm like, what's up, homie? He's like, damn, that's crazy how you killed that fool, man. Damn, you shot that fool. I said, what the hell you? I said, man, I hung up the phone on them. Come to find out in trial, they had the phone bug they was trying to get me. You know what I'm saying? And is he your friend who got beat up?

Starting point is 00:44:54 No, no, no, no. The friend got beat up named was C. Okay. Yeah. So he was just a homeboy in the hood. You know what I'm saying? So I'm down in Oklahoma now. I'm like, damn, I need to get my money stacked up real quick.

Starting point is 00:45:09 I'm going to go to jail. You know what I'm saying? So now I'm trapping again. I'm trying to get much of the money I can. You know what I'm saying? I call a lawyer. That's what happened. I call a lawyer.

Starting point is 00:45:23 I was like, man, I need help. This happened. I told him the situation. You know what I'm saying? He was like, well, let me call the police station and see it was true or not. Like, if somebody really died or not, you know what I'm saying? So he called, he'd find out. The investigators told him, hey, you better tell him to turn himself in

Starting point is 00:45:42 or we're going to put a man to hunt out for his arrest. You know what I'm saying? He better come turn himself in. So my lawyer made a deal with him. Look, if I get him in here by Monday, y'all got a promise. if y'all catch them, y'all won't kill them. You know what I'm saying? This and that.

Starting point is 00:45:56 You know, police dealing with a murder suspect, they automatically know I got a gun on me. You know what I'm saying? So it might not turn out as well. You know what I'm saying? So I agreed to come in, turn myself in. So, you know, I tell my wife, look, man, I only want to put y'all through this.

Starting point is 00:46:12 You know what I'm saying? I'm messed up. I'm going to have to go and turn myself in, man. You know what I'm saying? So I end up going down there. They was waiting on me, too. As soon as I walked to the police station, They was like, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:46:23 And like something in a movie, I was like, oh, this is bad. I just remember I kept telling myself, this is bad. You know what I'm saying? So it's interesting that you turned yourself in. You're this hardcore gangster. And it was like, well, I can't run. Eventually they're going to get me. You know what made me do it more?

Starting point is 00:46:42 My wife and kids. I was like, I don't want to get caught with them with me. You see what I'm saying? Because say it did. turn out bad. Say I get surrounded and they're like, don't move and we stuck somewhere I don't want them to be

Starting point is 00:47:00 trying to shoot at me or do something to me with my wife and kids right there too and accidentally hit one of my kids or something. You know what I'm saying? So I was like man, I don't want to put them through this man. You know what I'm saying? I don't put them through enough stress with just my lifestyle alone living the way I'm living. You know what I'm

Starting point is 00:47:16 saying? Because you got to remember they had risk too. Because whatever I do, That puts them in a bad position too. What if somebody want to come kick in my door and rob me? Who's at my house with me? My wife and kids. Who's to say they won't rape my wife or hell her at gunpoint when I ain't there

Starting point is 00:47:33 trying to get some money out of me? You see what I'm saying? So I put them at serious risk too. So it was just time for an end of it, bro. It was time for an end. In your mind and did you talk with your lawyer? Did you figure, okay, there is mitigating circumstances. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:47:49 Did you figure like you might be able to get a deal you know, not life anyways. Well, not life, just, I figured at the time for the way the boys rolled up on me and for the situation in the hand, I was leased in my mind figuring I could least get some type of self-defense or some type of manslaughter. Because you take it in mind, I don't know these guys.

Starting point is 00:48:08 They came after me. You know what I'm saying? Because of my friend. I don't have nothing to do with him. But like they said in trial, they figured since I was with him, I was going to help him. So, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:48:19 Get him too. So it was premeditated. Yeah, it was premeditated what they did. Same thing my lawyer said. It was like, well, how are you going to charge him? And they came after him. They literally in trial said, we literally came after him because we thought he was going to take up for his homeboy. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:48:36 So the victims or the people that were in the car with the dead guy, they actually took the stand. It was his brothers. Oh. And they took the stand and his big brother literally said, we came after him because we thought he was going to help his home. And he didn't have nothing to do with this. Hmm. You see what I'm saying? So I just knew right then.

Starting point is 00:48:55 In my mind, I'm like, well, damn, I'm going to get self-defense. They're letting y'all know. Basically, they was out. They're coming after me. You know what I'm saying? But it didn't happen that way, bro. She didn't happen. She didn't have a trial.

Starting point is 00:49:06 Huh? She blew trial, man. End up getting 25 years first-degree murder. Even the investigator told my, told my family when my family was leaving the trial. He was like, oh, he got railroaded. He got messed off him. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:49:22 They even seen it. They sat in trial. They seen it. They were like, oh, nah, he got railroaded. Yeah, you were at fault, but. Oh, yeah, I'm definitely at fault on my part. You have to consider the circumstances, though. Everybody's gang banging.

Starting point is 00:49:34 It's a gang banging crime-ridden neighborhood, you know. Yeah. Everybody's got guns. Everybody's involved in some type of something. Did they prove the guy had a gun in the car? Like, were you able to prove that? They found a weapon at the hospital. why he was...

Starting point is 00:49:49 I remember in trial, the police was saying something about they asked the guys, they asked the brothers of the guy, can they search their car? And they was acting nervous, like, no, y'all can't search our car and acted nervous about it.

Starting point is 00:50:04 So they were like, why y'all acted so nervous? If nothing wrong, you know what I'm saying? That's what I remember what the police said in trial. You know what I'm saying? I think they, when they did search the car, that's when they found a weapon in their car.

Starting point is 00:50:16 You know what I'm saying? Was it a jury trial? Yes. Was it a fair jury? Like, did you have some? I didn't have no jury of my peers. No. No.

Starting point is 00:50:26 I had an all-white jury and Denton County, Texas. And basically, the lawyer I had, there was a white lawyer as a court appointant. He basically told me I was going to get railroad. He was like, you know where you at, right? I was like, jail. You know what I'm saying? He was like, no, you in Denton County. They got a 99% conviction rate.

Starting point is 00:50:48 And you're black with a murder case. He said nine times out of ten, you're going to prison. Right. But they didn't want to you. I was like, can I get some type of like self-defense mans or something? You know what I'm saying? Not no life or nothing like no big, you know what I'm saying? He was like, that's what we're working on.

Starting point is 00:51:06 Just give us time. I end up having a fire. He wouldn't come and see me. He wasn't coming to see me when I needed him to. He was playing it off like he really wasn't trying to help me. Like in his mind, it was already. He's going to get some time, just let it play out. I'm like, oh, no, I got to get in that lawyer fast.

Starting point is 00:51:23 I can't let him get me like this. But they never offered you a plea deal, though. Yeah, they offered me. They first plea deal was, they was talking about life. They went to 40 years. You did have a plea deal? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:51:38 Take in mind, they didn't even have, man, they didn't even have a, they didn't even have a, they didn't even have a, they didn't even have a suspect, really. And I'm gonna tell you why. It took them over the time to indict me for the murder case. When I filed for it, like the motion for, you know what I'm saying? Because, you know, at a certain point of time, I can't even remember how many days it is. They got a certain amount of time to indict you or they got to let you go. They went over the time on me.

Starting point is 00:52:08 And when I mentioned it to them, all of a sudden that night I got indictment papers in jail. You know what I'm saying? It was like, oh, we need to just, you know what I'm saying? But when I found out in my trial, they didn't even have a shooter. You know what I'm saying? If I didn't take that stand, they wouldn't even have a shooter, bro. Oh, so you took the stand? I took the stand.

Starting point is 00:52:32 My lawyer made me take the stand. Hmm. That's usually not. My whole purpose was not to take the stand. Yeah, it's usually not a good thing when I... Remember, I told you my lawyer wanted my wife. Yeah, tell us about this. Okay.

Starting point is 00:52:44 Tell us about this. The whole purpose. purpose and that trial was for me not to take that stand. All the witnesses in that trial, all of recanted their statement and said, well, we know he have a gun, but we didn't see him shoot. So they're like, well, who's the shooter? Who shot the guy? They were like, well, I didn't see him shoot the guy, but he's always known for having a gun.

Starting point is 00:53:12 They're like, but you're not answering the question. Did you see him shoot the guy? They were like, no, I can't say I saw him shooting. They didn't even have a shooter, bro. I could have got off Scott Free. They didn't even have a shooter. So I took the stand. My lawyer said, hey, man, take the stand.

Starting point is 00:53:32 I said, why? They don't even have a shooter. Who shot? Man, I think it would be a good thing if you take the stand, bro, and tell your side of the story. Then you went up there and said, yeah, I was the shooter. I went up there, told him the incident. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:53:51 Thinking I was going to get self-defense and got 25 years. That is ineffective counsel. That's ineffective assistant to counsel. I end up filing an appeal, won my appeal from ineffective counsel. Because right after I got sentenced and went to prison, my lawyer was trying to sleep with my wife. He was calling my wife, you pretty, maybe we need to hang out some time trying to get with my wife. the whole time, we're supposed to be doing my trial trying to get me off. He, I and my wife, really trying to, I hope he gets sent it so I can try to get to

Starting point is 00:54:26 his wife. You see what I'm saying? He wanted you to go down. He wanted me to go down. So I filed ineffective assistance to counsel and I won my appeal. Now, I didn't have no help. I didn't have a lawyer. I didn't have nobody explaining me about law.

Starting point is 00:54:41 I don't know nothing about law, bro. I'm clueless to law. I get served in abatement order. Now I know abatement means to lessen, reduce, or do a weight with. You know what I'm saying? So when they take me back on a bench warrant, back to the county, the judge asked me, well, what do you want to do? I was like, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:55:01 Give me a new trial. I don't know what to do. You know what I'm saying? They were like, okay, yeah, we can do that. You know what I'm saying? I was like, yeah, I don't know what to do. You know what I'm saying? I end up losing.

Starting point is 00:55:12 So you went back to trial. No. Something happened with my court appointed lawyer, man, where they weren't trying to come off the sentence. They were trying to do something. He was like, man, you better just stick to what you do. Are they going to, you might get more time than what you, you know what I'm saying? What you got.

Starting point is 00:55:32 It was something, bro. I can't remember the specifics of it, bro. But I end up having to do that 25-year sentence. You know what I'm saying? Now, the only people dirtier than prosecutors are fucking defense lawyer. Man, they dirty as hell, bro. And, man, people, you know, I always talk about how stupid people in Texas are, but I mean, it's really a fact. Like, you look at just look at these lawyers.

Starting point is 00:55:54 Look at the judges. I mean, everybody's incompetent and corrupt and evil. Corrupt, bro. Yeah. They all kick it with each other. They all go golfing with each other. I mean, my lawyer was like, man, everything good, bro. I'll be going golfing with him.

Starting point is 00:56:09 You know what I'm saying? I'm like, yeah. He's putting, telling the judge about it. going to bang your wife. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So I'm just like, dude, come on, man. So whatever happened, I can't remember because it's been so long, bro, but I end up having

Starting point is 00:56:23 to do my time. You know what I'm trying? So the point is, you should have, when the judge brought you in for an abatement hearing, you should have been like, yes, I wanted. I want to either reduce, do away with, or a time reduction. I could even got a time reduction. How far into your stretch did you get that hearing? How many years in were you?

Starting point is 00:56:44 I want to say two or three years. Oh, my God. I'm going to say like two or three years. You might have been able to walk. I'm trying to tell you. But I don't know the law. I'm from the hood, bro. I don't know nothing about abatement orders or nothing about the law.

Starting point is 00:57:00 I don't got nobody helping me. Nobody to be like, no, bro, look what they gave you. You know what I'm saying? I didn't have nobody. I'm just going off, man, chance, I guess. Right. You know what I'm saying? Look.

Starting point is 00:57:12 You know what I'm saying? So, wow. So. I end up blowing that, bro. There you go. End up having to do my time. You got a 25-year shot. Yes.

Starting point is 00:57:21 In Texas prisons back then. Yes. When it was grimy. Today's episode is sponsored by Kalshi. You've heard of Kalshi by now. They're America's number one predictions market. We make predictions every single day about politics, pop culture, the economy, the biggest stories in the headlines.

Starting point is 00:57:34 Well, with Kalshi, it lets you trade those predictions in a live market. For instance, I'm about to make a bundle off of this midterm election that's coming up, right? I got in a few weeks ago, and I won't give away the personal details, but I am going to come out ahead after those election results. But here's another one about pop culture for all you swifties out there. For example, Will Taylor Swift's Patient Zero hit number one on the Billboard Hot 100? Right now, that market is trading at 90%, meaning $100 trade would pay you out $11 if it tops the charts. So on Kalshi, you're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house, there's no Vegas, there's no experts. And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position,

Starting point is 00:58:17 download the Kalshi app and use code Mitchell to get $10 when you trade $10. It's KAL-S-H-I-K-S-H-I-K-She, trade on anything. Cal-She is 18-plus-only. Restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract rating involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Colchee products are not available in all jurisdictions. Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see calshy.com slash regulatory.

Starting point is 00:58:40 Tell us about how it was when you went in. But when I first went in, I went to Gurney unit, transfer unit first. Stayed over there, I think, like, two weeks. Because I remember they called me to class in the case, and they were like, you got a murder case. You ain't going to be here long. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like, damn, they were like, yeah, you're going to a farm.

Starting point is 00:59:02 So. What does that mean when they say you're going to a farm? You're going to a real penitentiary. Oh, okay. No more transfers, state jail type of facilities. you go into where it's at. You know what I'm saying? Coffield, Beito, Ferguson.

Starting point is 00:59:17 You know what I'm saying? These type of units. Polonski. Yeah, Polonski. You know what I'm saying? You're going to a unit. So two weeks, I go to Bird. Another transfer from Bird.

Starting point is 00:59:30 I go to Gorey. From Goree. I was on Goree like a week and went straight to Ferguson, my first unit. You know what I'm saying? They were like, you going to F.E. I was like, what's that? They were like, boy, they sent you to a bad mug, bro.

Starting point is 00:59:42 And I was like, what's F.E? They were like, boy, you go to Ferguson in Midway, Texas. They were like, boy, get ready over there. Boy, it's for real. So I'm like, Ferguson. I'm like, okay. So, you know, still me. I'm playing the tough guy, row.

Starting point is 00:59:55 You know what I'm saying? Man, I ain't worried about all that yesterday. They're like, okay, man, it's real over there, bro. I'm telling you, bro, you know what I'm saying? So get on the bus. I'm headed to Ferguson unit. It's an old school guy on there. His name was Fifth Ward.

Starting point is 01:00:08 He was from Houston. He was like, where y'all going? Y'all going to Ferguson? And I said, uh, we're like, yeah, man, we go to Ferguson, man, what do? He was like, say, man, when you get here, get a shank. I said, get a shank. He's like, say, man, listen to me. Get a shank, bro.

Starting point is 01:00:25 It's real over here. I was like, what? He was like, yeah, I just left for medical, but I'm headed back there, bro. Get a shank. I was like, okay, so it's one of them type of unit. I said, man, I got to get ready, you know what I'm saying? So now I'm preparing my mind. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to have to fight.

Starting point is 01:00:40 I'm going to knock somebody out. I'm gonna do this. You know what I'm saying? I gotta let them know I ain't like in the streets. I ain't, I ain't to be played with. You know what I'm saying? We do, whoop. So we get to the back gate.

Starting point is 01:00:51 We're waiting, you know what I'm saying? To get back. We go through the little shower area. You know what I'm saying? Get our necessities. Get our mad. We hit the hallway. Soon as we hit the hallway, people walking down the hallway.

Starting point is 01:01:03 They're like, what's up? What you is, homie? You're a blood, you're a crib. What's up? I'm like, what? I said, what's up? Homie? He's like, what you is?

Starting point is 01:01:10 I said, niggins, it's five dudes who's, you know what I'm saying? So now I'm back in the street mode again, you know what I'm saying? So they're like, yeah, we're going to holly at you? I said, yeah, holly at me then. You know what I'm saying? So we go into the little classification part. I think the GI name was McQueen. It was a woman.

Starting point is 01:01:28 Her name was McQueen. She take you behind his chalkboard. She checked your tats. See what game you in, woo-to-woo. So she's checking me out. And she's like, what game you in? I'm like, I ain't in no game. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:01:40 She said, listen to me. Don't lie to me. She said, I'm going to tell you right now. Tell me what game you in. Because if you don't, I'm going to stick you somewhere and you don't want to be. I'm like, don't want to be. I said, damn, it's real like that over here.

Starting point is 01:01:54 She said, you better tell me what game you in. I said, man, I'm fired dudes, man, who are you know what I'm saying? She's like, all right. So, boom, I end up going to G block. That's my first block I went to. Fighting in the day room. I'm like, oh, shit. Yeah, I got to get ready.

Starting point is 01:02:10 So, dude comes to my say, he's like, what's up, blood? I said, nah, nigga, it's Crip on mine. It's five deuce on mine. He's like, oh, okay, okay, you got some homeboys down there. I'm gonna let him know you up here. You know what I'm saying? So I put my stuff up. They already told me when you put your stuff up,

Starting point is 01:02:23 immediately go to the day room. Don't stay in your cell because that's the sign of being weak. That's the side of being scary. So I put my stuff up. I'm headed down to the little small day room. I get to the day room, nigga like, what's up, homie? You Crip?

Starting point is 01:02:35 I'm like, yeah, he's like, what you is? I'm like, what you is? I'm like, I'm fired dudes, homie. He's like, I'm five dudes too, homie. I'm from Cali. Woo-de-woo, so I'm like, what's up, homie? He's like, man, you got to get that, man. We got to check you in, bro.

Starting point is 01:02:46 I'm like, check me in. He's like, yeah, man, you got to fade the homies. I'm like, oh, yeah, he's like, yeah, you got to fade to homie. I'm like, well, shit, come on. Let's go on get this over. He said, we're going to get it over with your chill, man. So they were like, bring your paperwork out too. We want to see your paperwork.

Starting point is 01:03:00 You know what I'm saying? I said, see my paperwork. They're like, yeah, nigga, we want to see your paperwork. So I'm like, bad, bad. So when they do the in-and-out, I go up there, I get my paperwork. I bring it, they check it. They're like, oh, you ain't there for murder, homie. Woo, you know, they really want to see if you're in there for child molestation or some fucked-up case.

Starting point is 01:03:16 You know what I'm saying? You know, that's a no-go. That's a no-fly. We're getting to that in the minute. Okay. All right. You want to get into it? Come on.

Starting point is 01:03:22 Well, yeah, because in my personal experience and from what I've heard, with all due respect, I've heard that the black guys, the black cars, allow that more than the other races. They allow child molest, well, in a lot of places, but I don't know about Texas. No, that is not true. Child molesters, whether it's the whites,

Starting point is 01:03:45 the blacks, the Mexicans, if you get caught in there and they find out you a child molester, you're either going to die, you're going to get beat, damn near to death where you wish you died, and you immediately got to get off the unit. You got to go get locked up.

Starting point is 01:04:00 You cannot stay on the wing. you cannot stay on the unit. You got to catch off the unit. Okay. So that's Texas law. That's Texas law. There's no playing. White guys ain't having it.

Starting point is 01:04:11 Miskis ain't having it. And blacks ain't having it. You is not fit to come in here and mess with no little kid. You're going to die. You know what I'm saying? It's not playing that game with you. You know what I'm saying? So they take your paperwork.

Starting point is 01:04:22 Go up there. Fade the homie. You know what I'm saying? Got to get my 52 seconds in. You know, I'm fired deuce. So whatever your set is, that's how many seconds you got to fight. You know what I'm saying? I get my checks out the way.

Starting point is 01:04:34 How many do you have to fade? Three. Back then it was three. You had to fade three people. Back to back. Back to back? Back to back. Ain't no player.

Starting point is 01:04:41 You got to fade them. It's mandatory. How were you with your hands? I'm good with my hands. I was always raised fighting good. You know what I'm saying? I ain't going to lie. I'm good with my hands.

Starting point is 01:04:52 You know what I'm saying? And they ain't trying to be, you know what I'm saying? Because I know I can be whooped. There's plenty of people can whoop me. There's plenty of guys I was locked up. We can whip me. But it ain't going to have hands. on their hands.

Starting point is 01:05:02 You know what I'm saying? I believe you. Yeah. So after I get all through that, I'll do that, you know what I'm saying? I mean, everything was good. You know what I'm saying? We had riots.

Starting point is 01:05:12 We had different stuff take place, you know what I'm saying? But once you get in prison, you win. You know what I'm saying? Now, that's on you to get involved with all the other extra career. You know what I'm saying? Activities going on far as selling drugs, getting drugs here, messing with the guards or whatever your thing is. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:05:30 it's on you, you know what I'm saying, once you're in there. But, you know what I'm saying? Like me, I had a lot of time, so I got to make my time the best way I can. And that's hauling at the women guards trying to get them to bring something in or, you know what I'm saying, just adapting to my surrounding. You know what I'm saying, basically. And are there a lot of other five-nine hovers in there? Five-duce hovers?

Starting point is 01:05:51 Yeah, that's a whole bunch. Hoover's really, to me, man, we probably outweighed all the games. To be honest. The bloods? It's a lot of five dudes, Hoover. It's a lot of Fyduce Hoover. It's a lot of Fyndu's Hoover. It's a lot of Hoover's in Texas Penitentiary.

Starting point is 01:06:06 Why? Because it's a lot of sex. You know what I'm saying? You be for 107 Hoover, 59, oh, no, you know what I'm saying? SEMFO. It's many sets of branches of us. You know what I'm saying? So we're big.

Starting point is 01:06:17 Do you think the Mexicans are the most populous gang? Yes, Tango Blast. Thangle Blast. Yeah. And why I say that? Because Tango Blast is straight up murderers. You know what I'm saying? They don't play, bro.

Starting point is 01:06:29 they'll kill you. You know what I'm saying? They love war. They ain't scary. And they're going to take care of their business. And they're going to carry it out the way they want to carry it out. Yeah. And they seem never to give a fuck.

Starting point is 01:06:42 Wow. So what did you have in your mind? What was your hustle? Man, hollering at the women guards, trying to get them to bring something in. You are good with ladies. I could tell. Yeah, I'm good. I'm very good with ladies.

Starting point is 01:06:52 You know what I'm saying? So I used to try to catch them when they come on the wing. And what's up, baby? And how you doing? And man, you look pretty. or I'll say any little thing. If they bite on it, I know I got them. Now, if they say, don't talk to me like that,

Starting point is 01:07:05 I'm going to write you up, I know, yeah, I need to leave her alone. You know what I'm saying? Real tough. But you get some cool guards in there. Sometimes, like, I don't met a lot of cool guards that was in there that just want to see you go home. They didn't want to, the conditions we was living in, it was like, boy, I'd be glad when y'all go home to your family, this ain't it.

Starting point is 01:07:25 Y'all need to be fathers. Y'all got kids. Y'all need to be good husbands. It was a lot of cool guards in there, bro. They want to see you win. Then you had a bunch of assholes that try to take you down so you don't go back to the world. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:07:38 It's a lot of them. You know what I'm saying? They do whatever they can to give you a case for anything little just to get you messed off. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Right. Were you your sentence?

Starting point is 01:07:50 How did that compare to other people's sentences? Were you about the normal or were you considered like a lifer? Well, on Ferguson unit it is. on Ferguson unit, it's a bunch of people with a lot of time, so it was like normal. Yeah. But when I hit the Boy Unit after I came back from my appeal, because they sent me to another unit when I came, when I went back on chain for my appeal and so, I ended up being on the Boy Unit in T, Texas. And over there, it wasn't too many people just had big time.

Starting point is 01:08:19 You know what I'm saying? It was people that had time, but not majority. You know what I'm saying? It was short-timers there. People going home, a little five year, three years, seven years, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Did you get anything in? Did you ever start a relationship with a guard that proved to be profitable?

Starting point is 01:08:36 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I ain't going to say her name. No, I don't want to know her name. Yeah, but I had several of them where they was, you know what I'm saying, doing me favors and stuff. You know what I'm saying, whether it was drugs or whether it was just getting free world food. You know what I'm saying? Something to be closer to the free world. A cheeseburger means a lot in there.

Starting point is 01:08:58 you know what I'm saying, like a free world cheeseburger or a free world muscle shirt, just something that brings you back to the outside world and being locked up in prison, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. What drugs did you get in there? K2. At the time, K2 was big.

Starting point is 01:09:14 You know what I'm saying? Already, even in that era. Man, K2 was big. I used to get cigarettes in, dip, K2. You know what I'm saying? Cigarettes is good. A hot commodity in there because each cigarette go, you can roll up a little bitty cigarette like this

Starting point is 01:09:27 and it'll go for $1.50, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? And if you got a big bundle of some buglers, it's like this, so you can imagine what you're making, you know what I'm saying? K-2, K-2 stick, $5 a stick. You know what I'm saying? So if you got a bundle like this and they're going $5 a stick,

Starting point is 01:09:45 this big, you know what I'm saying, or selling them two-paced caps, like three toothpaste caps or something. You know what I'm saying? That's how we was making our money. You know what I'm saying? And you had a lot of guys on the street, like you were the OG on the street,

Starting point is 01:09:57 Did you become that in the joint? Eventually I did. At the beginning, I had to follow play. I had to follow rules. It was somebody else speaking for the Crips at the time. His name was Delo. You know what I'm saying? So I had to follow suit under him.

Starting point is 01:10:11 You know what I'm saying? And when it was passed down to me, then it was my time. Then I became the, I want to say, the shot caller for the Crips. I don't want to say the leader because I wasn't lead nobody. I was just, I was the speaker. Right. You know what I'm saying? Whenever something go on with the,

Starting point is 01:10:27 whites or something go on with the menskins or whatever race, they come to me. And we sit down and talk about it and see what needs to be done. You know what I'm saying? It's like you're you're administrating all of the punishments or the truces. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I'm involved in whatever situation go on is my call. So if we decide to be like, well, okay, let's lead to two parties that got into it so we don't have a ride or something go on,

Starting point is 01:10:58 let's just let them look at it and get it out the way. Look at it in prison means, you know, fight. Let them look at it, get it out the way, man, and we just squashed the whole issue. But if it was a serious enough issue where it was a lot of money loss or something, where it need to be something go on, then we took it there.

Starting point is 01:11:15 I was going to ask you that? Was there a time when you had to take it there where you couldn't talk it out? Yeah, I've been in three riots. I've been in three bad riots. You know what I'm saying? Whole ass riots. Four rides where the whole wing is fighting,

Starting point is 01:11:28 bussing each other in the head with fan motors, people pulling out shanks, everything. You know what I'm saying? Where was that at? That was on a boy unit. And what was that over? Man, it kept, uh, the,

Starting point is 01:11:40 the rise with the Mexicans was over. Tango Blas was going to war with Latin Kings. A black guy involved himself in it, which he shouldn't have did. He shouldn't have butted his nose in it, but it caused us to have to go to war with them too. You know what I'm saying? on medium custody at the time.

Starting point is 01:11:58 You know what I'm saying? Medium custody is a level that step up to where if you get caught trying to holl out of guard or you get caught fighting or doing something wrong, they send you to medium custody. You know what I'm saying? Which is B and C wing, you know what I'm saying, on board unit.

Starting point is 01:12:15 You know what I'm saying? It's like punishment. You know what I'm saying? Where you can find in a cell all day, come out, go to wreck one hour, go back to the cell. You don't get no privileges like everybody else around the unit. You know what I'm saying? And I've been on meeting in custody four times.

Starting point is 01:12:31 So you just said, fuck it, let's go? Yeah. Yeah, as far as the riot situation, we end up violating the black guy for doing it for getting involved in sub-being-us that one is and end up making him catch off the unit. You know what I'm saying? Beat him up, made him catch off the unit

Starting point is 01:12:47 for getting us involved in this situation. But as the fight was going on, we all had the fight. Everybody was involved. You know what I'm saying? And it happened the way it happened. It's wild that you would have to, you got to beat up your own guy. You're like, you might even like them.

Starting point is 01:13:02 I don't know if you liked them. Yeah, I liked them a lot. But at the same time, prison politics, you got to stand on business. You know what I'm saying? It's real. You know what I'm saying? He needed to be violated for bunning his nose in the wrong business that he shouldn't have been in. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:13:16 Look what the outcome was. You got us involved in something that had nothing to do with us. They go on the war. That shouldn't have had nothing to do with us. You know what I'm saying? But he wanted to be friendly, which you can't be in prison. You can't be friendly. Are you going to be played for a week?

Starting point is 01:13:30 And he wanted to be friendly. He wanted to, man, come on, y'all, man, we shouldn't be doing this. Why are you speaking? You know what I'm saying? That has nothing to do with you. You can't do that in prison. This is not like the world. In the world, you can see somebody fighting in Walmart and be like, come on, y'all, man, y'all.

Starting point is 01:13:47 It ain't worth it. In prison, you can't do that because everything is segregated. You know what I'm saying? And if we didn't say nothing to him about it, either one of the Mexican groups was going to say something to us about it. Like, say, man, y'all had a line for having, y'all boy over here, you know what I'm saying,

Starting point is 01:14:06 button his nose in our business. We at war, what has he got to do with this? He's black, you know what I'm saying? So it could have became a bigger issue. Could have been an ongoing thing from a war, you know what I'm saying? So he really should have just shut up and just let them go to war,

Starting point is 01:14:22 what they need to do. And you know what I'm saying? Mind your business. Mind your business. You know what I'm saying? In prison, you got to mind your business, bro. It is wild, like, when you're down and you see two dudes, like, beating each other to death and you just kind of got to keep walking.

Starting point is 01:14:35 Like, I didn't see anything. It's nothing of your business. If you're in a child hall, you see somebody, get them and stab somebody, it's none of your business. Get them, walk up. Get out of there. It's none of your business. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:14:45 That's how you got to be in there, man. Remember, I told you, man, it's like putting you in a pod with a full alliance. Everybody got different emotions, different attitudes, and you got to deal with this every day. You got to deal with this every single day. I got to deal with your emotion every day. You might wake up in a bad mood and mad about you got a bad letter or something and you want to hurt somebody.

Starting point is 01:15:08 This is the type of stuff we got to deal with every day. You know what I'm saying? Did you see that? You see dudes getting stuck in the chow hall? I've seen dudes get stabbed plenty of times in prison. Plenty of times. I seen a dude get stabbed for stealing. which he deserved it,

Starting point is 01:15:22 because that's one of the number one rules in prison. You don't touch no other man's property. No, hell no. You know what I'm saying? And he got caught stealing. And the dude made an example out of him. Anybody steal from me this was going to happen to you? And he was well in his right.

Starting point is 01:15:37 You know what I'm saying? Who's the me to tell him, oh, man, he stabbed him. Hey, I don't want nobody stealing from me. As a shockballer, would somebody in your group have to come up to you to get the green light to go buck somebody? Yes, and at the same time, it's hard being a shot caller because you got to make a lot of decisions you don't want to make. Right. Say you get close to a person so close to where y'all like brothers, but he do something fucked up. Now that's on me, I got to make that decision for everybody.

Starting point is 01:16:11 So when everybody, we have a meeting and everybody bring it to my attention, say, man, this dude did this, man, he was out of line. He needs to be violated. I got to see that violation through. Whether we was close, brothers, friends, however you want to call it. I got to mess that relationship up with him because I got to make that call. So it's hard being over there because everybody waiting on your judgment. They're looking at you like, hmm, what is he going to do? Is he going to get weak about this?

Starting point is 01:16:38 Is he going to let it make it? What are he going to do? I can't appear to be weak. You know what I'm saying? Because if I appear to be weak, then how can I be a speaker for y'all and lead y'all? You know what I'm saying? Remember, I told you back earlier, I got to lead by example. So I can't do for them what I want to do for myself.

Starting point is 01:16:55 You see what I'm saying? Carlito's way. The streets is watching. The streets is watching. She is watching all the time. I got to be there. I got to make the right moves. It's wild.

Starting point is 01:17:06 Like the same mentality when you were gang banging in the street, you're watching people. This is just the same thing. You've just brought it over from guns. Now it's shanks and fists. Now, it's shakes and fists. There's no guns in there. It's even worse. Because now you've got to really fend for yourself like a man.

Starting point is 01:17:24 See, it's easy in the world to shoot somebody. But what you're going to do when you ain't got a gun? And you got to fit for yourself like a man. All you got is these. These are your pistols. You know what we call pistols in prison are gloves. Yeah, my boy Tim told me about the gloves in Texas. We got them hard leather gloves.

Starting point is 01:17:43 We'd be getting, you know what I'm saying? You can get some from a trusses. ste out on the farm or whatever, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, tell us about those. Yeah, they're real rough, man. They're leather. They cut your skin when you hit somebody. You know what I'm saying, in the right way.

Starting point is 01:17:59 And we pay commissary for them to get them. So you can't buy them on the commissary. No, no, no. But you get somebody working in a horse barn or, you know what I'm saying, somebody in stainless steel, somebody working where leather gloves is. You know what I'm saying? You can get them, you know what I'm saying? And that's what we call our pistols.

Starting point is 01:18:17 So when we fight, you hear somebody be like, hold on, let me go grab my pistol, meaning he could run it in the cell to get his gloves. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's your pistols in prison. Right. You know what I mean? You could fuck somebody up worse than a shank almost. Man, you cut them up, but it ain't nothing like getting stabbed, though.

Starting point is 01:18:34 That shank. I guess it depends what kind of shank. Depends if they're coming to just teach you a lesson or they're coming to kill you, right? Yeah. And I had several shanks. I made shanks out of fence wires and everything. I'd have sat on a wreckyard and kept being. for like three days getting a fence wire off the fence.

Starting point is 01:18:51 And then now you gotta sneak it in, you know what I'm saying? Then once you get it in, you take it and you make a point out of it. You take it and you get on your ground and you shave it. You keep doing this, going around in a circle with it, until it becomes a fine point like this. Now you gotta hide it. You can either hide it in your mat like me. Man, I don't even want to get the game up.

Starting point is 01:19:13 I hear mine in my deodorant. You know what I'm saying? I used to take my deodorant out, stick my shank in there, put my deodorant on, put it in my commissary bag, come to the day room. I never got searched with my commissary bag to where they found it. You know what I said? But that's where I hit my shank all the time. So what's the handle on it though? It's bent.

Starting point is 01:19:33 It's a man, I wish we were where I could show you the fence wire. You know how the fence wire where it's got that loop like this. On the end of it? Right. Yeah, you get it, you get it bent like this to where you can hold it in your hand, you know what I'm saying? and poke somebody. Yeah, but it's a poker. It's nice.

Starting point is 01:19:50 It's this long, but the point of it be so sharp you can do like this and your finger bleed. You know what I'm saying? That's how you know, like, yeah, I got one. You know what I'm saying? But I've seen people make it out of glass. Man, there's so many, man, there's people

Starting point is 01:20:04 in there with, there's inmates in there with shanks who look like swords. They in there look like they, like sporting swords. Like they in that movie 300. I don't see some bad stuff, bro. I don't see some shanks. that'll cut your whole head off. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:20:18 If somebody whack you in their head, you know what I'm saying? They can take your head off. So when you guys went to yard or whenever you were out online movement, you guys had them on you. Man, I got to keep my shank on me. Got to, because you never know what's going to happen. Like I know the Mexican gangs,

Starting point is 01:20:35 they used to hide their shanks on the wreckyard in the dirt. You know what I'm saying? So it was accessible to get if something happened on the wreckyard, you know what I'm saying? Did the units you were on have metal detectors going out to the yard? No, no. They have guards patting you down. But if you got a cool guard sitting here and you cool with them, it's like... Yeah, guards are lazy. They don't, you know, they're doing that hundreds of times a week. They're just like, yeah, go for it.

Starting point is 01:21:00 Yeah, they just go on. You know what I'm saying? You're going to have a sword on you. They, you know what I'm saying? Did anybody ever come at you? No, no, I had somebody pull a shank out on me, though. But I couldn't get to him, though. I was trying my best to get to him, too. He was locked in the cell. He was being. basically a cell warrior. Right. He was, yeah, I'll kill you, I'm just like, okay, wait to the door's roll, you know what I'm saying? And then he'll call a guy over

Starting point is 01:21:26 that's a part of his gang, he'd be like, and the guy would be like, man, don't do it, man, woo, woo, woo, did he feel like that dude talked him out of it? I'm like, no, talking out of it, he, he knows exposed the shame to me, you know what I'm saying? I got, we got to handle that. And then they're like, well, y'all just get y'all

Starting point is 01:21:41 one on and just let's leave it along. I'm cool with that. then we just go behind the stairs or wait till they call Rick go out there by the handball court you know what I'm saying however we gonna do it going to sail

Starting point is 01:21:53 whatever I never like fighting in the cell because the sale's so small you hit your hand I didn't hit my hand on the end of the bunk and swole my hand up like this busted my knuckles look at my knuckles fuck

Starting point is 01:22:04 oh goodness I'd have busted my knuckles and everything so I always like fighting either under the stairs under the TV or on the handball court you know what I'm saying outside of Rick

Starting point is 01:22:15 Get everybody to make a wall and, you know, y'all get your scrap on. When laws come around there, you know, like y'all playing handball. You know what I'm saying? If somebody was going to get stuck, where would that happen at? Anywhere. But ideally. Ideally, on the wing. Because we'd be on the wing all day.

Starting point is 01:22:35 You know what I'm saying? But, I mean, like I said, if something pop off on a wreckyard, you can get stuck on the rec yard. They locked the wreckyard gate so you can't go nowhere. You basically stuck on a wreckyard. with everything going on, you know what I'm saying? Did you witness that? Did you witness a riot on the yard where it was like everybody pulling shanks out?

Starting point is 01:22:53 I want to say a riot out. I want to say just a misunderstanding that got over-escalated, but nobody died or nobody. It wasn't to a degree where, you know what I'm saying? People just really got messed off, you know what I'm saying? Most happened was just big old fight breakout and people just squabbling and, you know what I'm saying? They run out there, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:23:13 Get it on the hand. So your three years into your stretch when your appeal goes through. And nobody wins an appeal. So the fact that you got to go back before the judge. Yeah, that was a blessing. And, man, I messed it off, being ignorant to the law. How did you bounce back from that mentally? I mean, that must have been crushing.

Starting point is 01:23:35 Man, that was crushing, bro. It hurts, especially when I found out what a baitman was. When I found out what a baitman was, when I went to the law library, I was just like, you mean to tell me that it was. It was like, yeah, bro, you tripped out. I'm like, well, I couldn't have tripped out because I don't know the law. You know what I said? I ain't got no help.

Starting point is 01:23:52 They was like, yeah, you could be at home right now. You could have got a time reduction or got it, you know what I'm saying, reduce anything, bro. You know what I'm saying? And when I found out that, that really hurt me, bro. Because I was just like, damn, man. Now I'm going to have to do this time. I could be at home my kids right now. But I'm going to tell you the blessing in it, though.

Starting point is 01:24:11 I needed to stay in prison. God blessed me by sending me to prison, and I'm thankful for it. You hear a lot of guys be like, man, I didn't want, man, God got me locked up, won't let me out, man. All right, they churned against God, everything. No, I'm happy God put me in prison. Why? Because God started revealing to me all the hurt I was doing to people,

Starting point is 01:24:34 the things that I was doing out in the world, the hurt I was causing my family, and I started looking at myself like, what is it? you doing, man? What are you doing, bro? Can you believe? I couldn't, I got ashamed of myself because I was like, I couldn't believe I was that person. And when you're moving that fast, you don't see it. You don't take the time to sit back and see it. And I remember I was sitting on my, I was laying on my bunk one day. And God was like, revealing stuff to me like, remember when you ran in that house and did this and slapped that dude with that gun? And I was just like, man, why did I do that?

Starting point is 01:25:17 Man, that's crazy, man. That was crazy. Then I think of something like when I robbed somebody or shot that somebody or shot their car or, and I'm like, what did I do that stupid shit for? You know what I'm saying? So it was like God was playing it to me. And then I started realizing I needed to be here. I needed this.

Starting point is 01:25:40 I needed God to sit me down because if I didn't, I'd be dead probably. right now. I wouldn't have a life right now if God didn't sit me down in prison. You know what I'm saying? So instead of being mad at God like I did when I first was doing a couple of years in prison, I started seeing the blessing out of it. I start thanking God. Thank you, God, for having me here. Thank you for getting me from the streets and the lifestyle I was living, because I could be dead right now. Or I could have hurt somebody even worse and be in here for life when no parole. I could have did some crazy stuff like that. You know what I'm saying? You saved me, God. Thank you. And that's when I, that's when reality checks start hitting in on me. And I start going to church

Starting point is 01:26:26 more in there. I start reflecting back on my life. I start trying to mend broken relationships in the world that I have with people. And, you know what I'm saying? I start trying to just get it together, bro. Like, man, I got to be a different person when I get out in the world, not just for me, but for my kids and my family. I got to show them a different person. I can't go out of it. I can't leave here the same way I came in here. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:26:53 Something got to change. Something got to give. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And that's what, like, the turning point, like, in the mid of my sentence. Right. You know what I'm saying? When I first went in there, I was mad at God. I didn't care. I didn't care what was going to take place. I was on war.

Starting point is 01:27:11 I was on, I was adapted to the penitentiary because, you know, you adapt to your situations. But after I got so, being so involved in the penitenti to where I knew it was like, man, it's time that you start getting your stuff together, brother. You know what I'm saying? It's time. Quit being involved in these prison politics. Quit getting yourself involved.

Starting point is 01:27:32 It's people here don't care if they go home. They got short sentences. So they're going home regardless. You got a long time. You got to start figuring out what you're going to do at your time. You know what I'm saying? So that's when I start making a change and start really just sitting down. Like, yeah, it's taught me to get my shit together.

Starting point is 01:27:48 Yeah, that's what I, when I hear, talk to people to have really long bids, you know, 20 years or more. It's about, you know, the first half, first quarter, they're stretched. They're just acting like they're still in the streets. Yeah. And then, but it's about getting older, too. Yeah, you mature. Yeah. You mature.

Starting point is 01:28:06 Yeah. And you slow down. and yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's wild to look back. Even me, I think back to some of the shit that I did. And I'm like, I can't fucking believe I did that. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:28:15 It didn't make you think. Like, what the fuck? Usually involves women for me. But I look back and I'm like, God, damn. But it's, you know what? Good thing you brought that up about maturing because it's a lot of older men in prison that gives you the game. If you will listen to them.

Starting point is 01:28:36 You know what I'm saying? It's a lot of. a grown men that was in the, because when I went in, you remember I was young, I was in my 20, but it was a lot of grown men, older men in there that was giving us the game like youngster. Look, man, you need to find you a trade, man. Why is you sitting in here just, you know what I'm saying, getting involved in everything going on on the wing, man? Go get you a trade down there.

Starting point is 01:28:59 Go get some schooling. You can go to school down here, bro. You know what I'm saying? You're worried about fighting when you could be getting a landscape. and trade or something to get now making something of yourself, man. You know what I'm saying? There was a lot of guys in there that was enforcing that on us. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:29:16 We were so young and wow, at first we weren't listening to them. But as I got older and got more mature in the system, I was like, man, I need to get in some type of trade or something. So I started taking landscaping. You know what I'm saying? Start getting involved in, start getting my time more involved in doing something more productive than sitting on the wing all day, arguing over the football. game or arguing over the domino table or fighting about something about red or something stupid,

Starting point is 01:29:44 you know what I'm saying? And my time started going faster and it started easing up for me. You know what I'm saying? Because I wasn't secluded into everything that was going on. I was more now in the, man, I need to go take this or I need to go do this. Or I go to the church house and involve myself in comparative religion and getting a religion class. Or, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:30:05 I was doing things like that. You know what I'm saying? getting involved in the programs that was going on in prison. Because prison has a lot of programs. Really? Even the Texas? It's not all bad, bro. It's bad.

Starting point is 01:30:15 It's horrible. I wouldn't wish my worst enemy on it as far as prison. But the programs that's accessible for us, you can get into a program, bro. You can go to school. Even in Texas? Yeah, in Texas. You can go to school, bro. You can get a GED.

Starting point is 01:30:30 You can go to getting automotive trade, landscaping trade. You can learn how to do these different trade. You can work at the stainless steel plan with metals and stuff, learning how to do things, bro. They got opportunities. It's just on you if you're going to take them. It's on you if you're going to do them. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:30:50 I think just the problem is it's run like a slave factory and the penitentiary. So, yes, you could tell a guy, look, when you get out, all of this free work that you're doing for us in the metal factory, in the fields or whatever, you can convert this to a profession, but in here you're going to be working for 25 cents an hour. We don't even get paid in Texas prison.

Starting point is 01:31:16 There you go. You don't even get paid. It's free labor. Now, when we bring up the slave park, I would say the whole squad, that's what they call it. It's field squad, but they call it the whole squad

Starting point is 01:31:26 because you got a little Aggie hole and you couldn't grass. I would say that's modern day slavery. They wake you up early in the morning, take you out on a wagon, and you go out there, nothing but field. They give you a little Aggie hole with a little blade like this, make you line up in the line. You got a lead row in the tail row calling Katens,

Starting point is 01:31:48 and you lined up in a straight line that you cut in a hundredths of yards of field with an Aggie ho. Hundreds of yards. I ain't talking about no little just this area right here. I'm talking about we might start down here and end up way down there down damn near close to where the highway is. Football fields. Football fields, cutting grass like this, going in the line.

Starting point is 01:32:10 We, we, and I'm going to tell you the cold-hearted part about it, it's a tractor driver right there watching us, right there with the tractor next to us. But they want us to cut the grass. Just as punishment. Just as punishment. Just to whittle down your spirit. Just to whittle down your spirit to belittle you.

Starting point is 01:32:28 Then they got a wagon, they got a truck with like a cage on the bag. If you get into a fight out there, they got the wagon pointed in the hot sun to where the hot sun is beaming on it and they stick you in there while everybody's working. Again, think about Django Unchained. Remember, as punishment, they stick Carrie Washington, the slave girl

Starting point is 01:32:52 in that hot box in a hole and just leave her there baking. So it's the same difference that sticking you on the back of the truck in that cave and you sit in their hand cup while everybody working, you're sitting there way to be brought in. In the hot sun, sun, beaming on you. So who would volunteer to do that?

Starting point is 01:33:08 What, the host squad? Yeah. Everybody got to do it. When you come in the system, you got to do it unless you got medical restrictions. Your first job going to be a host squad off the muscle, field squad off the muscle. So you did that? Yeah, I did that for eight years before I got a better job. And you were still gangbanging, doing the host squad and you still had energy to gang bang.

Starting point is 01:33:31 That's fucking crazy. I did that for eight years before they gave me an SSI. was like, man, we got to get him an assess high job. He's been out here a long time. He's going to die. Eight years, man, in my sentence, I did field squad every day, waking up early in the morning, going out there. Some places take you two halves.

Starting point is 01:33:50 Some places you go in early in the morning, come in at lunch, eat, and go right back out there and then come back in midday. Like, I understand from the administration's point of view why you got people working for free in, you know, factories where they're selling shit because they're making money, but they're not making any money having you guys. No money in Texas. Texas don't pay you for nothing. But I'm saying like that the prisons usually get the inmates to do industries where they can

Starting point is 01:34:21 license plates. Right, exactly, license plates, whatever, call centers. You know, there's a million different things in the feds. They have Unicorn where they're making shit for the military and they sell it to the military. Yeah. But cutting grad, they're not making any money off of that either. They're not making no money, bro. We out there, we did a human law more.

Starting point is 01:34:38 To them it's punishment. You don't want to come to prison, then, hey, you want to come to prison, then it's the punishment. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? How they get away with it? I don't know, bro. I don't know how they get away with that, bro. Well, we were just talking off camera.

Starting point is 01:34:53 They just, the Supreme Court just now, literally, like two weeks ago, I read an article. They're just mandating Texas prisons. They're making them put air conditioning in. Man, that's beautiful. I'm happy for them boys because I have been in prison in the summertime for years where it was steam. It was so hot. They had to make respite areas like you can go to the firmery, schoolhouse, line building, stuff like that to get air, cool air. You can put in an I-C-Six or get a pass to go because they was literally going around with a thermostat, going in your cell to stale to be 112 degrees.

Starting point is 01:35:32 12, bro. So can you imagine, can you imagine being in that cell all day, 112 degrees? We used to literally went the whole floor. We used to flood the floor in the sale. Put the fans toward the floor like this and lay on the floor like this.

Starting point is 01:35:52 Put water all over your body and just lay under the fan like this on the wet floor to cool off. And for people... It's that hot in there. And for people that don't know Texas, that's three months a year minimum. Sometimes four.

Starting point is 01:36:05 This year was four months of 95, 90-95 plus. 100, 103, 102. So if it's a 102 out here, you can imagine what it is in that cell with no air conditioner. People die all the time. Man, it was people dying on my unit. I don't witness four people dying from heat exhaustion in the cell. They ain't going to do nothing to cover it up. That's what they're good at.

Starting point is 01:36:32 I don't watch officers beat inmates up bad. I don't watch officers make a mistake and kill an inmate, and they're going to cover it up. You watch that? Yeah, that's the big cover-up. What happened there? Slamming them on their head, breaking their neck. I watched one sergeant hold an inmate down and punch, beat him in his face and knock

Starting point is 01:36:51 his teeth out. I witnessed this with my own eyes. Everybody's screaming, man, you got me going off, screaming, kicking the doors, everything. They're going to cover it. up. What do they say happen? He fell and knocked all his teeth out. You could imagine what they say. They ain't going to say they did it. They ain't going to say they punched him. You know what I'm saying? You know how many lawsuits on Texas prison right now? For wrong for deaths and all type of stuff, bro. Yeah. Man, Texas is crooked, bro. Texas is, man, it's the worst prison to me ever, bro. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:37:25 I've heard about guards throwing inmates off of tears before. Yeah, off the tears. Yeah. They do that too. They do that too. They got the power. The officers will tell you, they're their own game. They ride for each other. Because they have cameras. Surely cameras are picking up them doing that. Well, now they got cameras.

Starting point is 01:37:45 They just now put that in. They got cameras now. Back then, when I first came in, they didn't have no cameras on that wall. For real? Yeah, they didn't have no cameras. Now they got cameras in there now. I heard they even got tablets now.

Starting point is 01:37:56 They didn't have no tablets when I was in there. I wish I had a tablet. Well, what they need is they got to make. make them wear body cameras to where it's streamed to outside of the prison. Okay. Because if it's just cameras controlled by the prison. Yeah, they can go and readjust it. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:38:13 Or if you kill an inmate, you just go to the captain who's cool and just, hey, just, just erase the footage. Yeah. Like they did with Epstein when he got killed in his cell, you know. Yeah. That's fucking terrifying. Yeah, that's crazy, man. You're against enemy lines, man. And that ain't just for blacks.

Starting point is 01:38:31 That ain't for minorities. That's for everybody. White dudes get treated the same in there. You know what I'm saying? So I'm not going to sit here and be like, oh, man, they do black people wrong. They do the men's getting. They're doing minorities wrong. They do white guys like that too.

Starting point is 01:38:44 White guys having it hard in there too. You know what I'm saying? I had a lot of white friends that was in there that was Aaron Brotherhood. You know what I'm saying? Aryan Knights. You would think they was racist. Half of them guys ain't racist, bro. half of them white guys that's in there ain't racist, bro.

Starting point is 01:39:04 They got black baby mamas and everything. But they felt like it was so hard for white guys in Texas prison, so they felt like when they come down there, they got a ride for their own. And I can understand why they feel that way, to be honest with you. Yeah, because they're minorities in prison. White guys are the minorities in prison. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:39:25 Especially Texas. Yeah. So they got to join four. to be able to hold up in battle with all the Mexicans and the blacks. You know what I'm saying? I think called Aryan, I mean, I obviously started with the Aryan Brotherhood, which wasn't racist in California. I've heard it's become more racist.

Starting point is 01:39:43 Yeah, it's become more racist. It's just a brand, though. It's just a brand to make themselves look menacing. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, hey, we're cool with Hitler. Yeah. Like, don't fuck with us.

Starting point is 01:39:54 Yeah. So it's just survival. It was just a survival thing, man. Like I sat up and talked to a lot of white guys in prison, and it was like, floss, I'm not racist at all, bro. My baby mama blank. And I got grandkids that's blank. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:40:10 I just feel like when I came down, it was so hard at the time I came down, I had to join, you know what I'm saying? Join up with a team to be able to, you know what I'm saying, make it all these years. You know what I'm saying? I'm telling you. I also saw that with black guys, the opposite,

Starting point is 01:40:27 you know, black guys that were like really, really anti-white, you know, you'd go to the visiting room and there would be there. They'd have a white wife. White, white wife. And so what? She was a little heavy. Hey, you got to get some, you got to get the balloons in. So that's what I said, man. I met a lot of good guys in prison, bro. I met a lot of good-hearted people, bro. That was, and that's from white boys to men's skins and black, bro. You know what I'm saying? It's just all the prison is just all about how you want to do your time, bro. Now, were you, you know what I'm saying? Were you rapping in this? there? Did you start rapping again?

Starting point is 01:40:59 No, actually, it's funny because I get flagged for that till this day. All my homeboys be like, that was in prison when we'd be like, boy, you weren't rapping at all in there. You weren't writing or nothing. You know what I'm saying? How are you able to come out and still be like you is? You know what I'm saying? For some reason, I lost the knack in prison of rapping, bro.

Starting point is 01:41:17 I lost the knack of writing and stuff, bro. It was just like, when I got that long time, it was just like, man, I don't give care about nothing anymore, man. It's over with. You know what I'm saying? I feel like, yeah, my life over with it. I don't even care no more. Right.

Starting point is 01:41:32 What happens? You know what I'm saying? I didn't even care, bro. I didn't care if I died in there. I was like, man, I don't care. If somebody stabbed me up, it is what it is, man. This is the life set for me. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:41:43 But then you started getting parole shots. Like, that's the interesting thing about Texas is they give you a lot of time. Mm-hmm. But then they do have parole. Yeah. Like in Oregon, where I'm from, Honky State, right? not a lot of violence. You think it's more like liberal.

Starting point is 01:42:00 But they, if you murder somebody, you generally, you're just getting life without parole. So, but here they give you 50 years, but you do go see the parole board at 20. Yeah, well, they give you options. They give you like, you might see it. They don't give you your first parole, though. I mean, I think I got like four or five setoffs

Starting point is 01:42:18 before I finally made parole before they finally was like, how much time you did? 17. Oh, boy, this time, you don't go home. You know what I'm saying? I did 17 on a 25. Right. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:42:31 How far in was your first parole? 12 and you see them on your halfway mark. Since my case is aggravated, because you got non-aggravated offenders and aggravated. Aggravated, you got to do half of your time. Non-ag offenders, you don't. What's a non-ag? Non-ag be like drug case. You got caught with some mev, grandma meth or something.

Starting point is 01:42:54 They gave you like a year or two. You know what I'm like? So like violence. Yeah, nonviolent. I see. You know what I'm saying? But aggravated offenders, you got to do half of your time before you even come up for parole. So if I get a 30-year sentence, I got to do 15 years flat before I even see parole.

Starting point is 01:43:08 I see. I see. I had 25-year sentence, so I had to do 12-and-a-half just to see parole. Okay. You know what I'm saying? And they didn't consider your behavior or your- Yeah, they do that. They consider that too.

Starting point is 01:43:21 But nine time out of ten, they already told me you was going to get set off anyway. They was like nine time out of ten as an aggravated offender. When you first come up, you're not going to go home. You know what I'm saying? And all my set-offs was for the same thing, which they wasn't supposed to do, but they did in any way because, like I said, they got the power. They can do what they want. But all my parole, what I want to say, rejections was nature of crime.

Starting point is 01:43:50 So I got to the point where I was like the nature of crime is not going to change. I mean, I'm in here for the nature of crime. So what is going to change about it that's going to make y'all let me go home? You know what I'm saying? It was like, I'm like, man, goddamn, you know what I'm saying? So next, you know, I look up, get a thing in the mail, deny it. I'm like, golly, they're just going to keep denying me for the nature of crime. How can I change that?

Starting point is 01:44:19 There's no way to change it. You know what I'm saying? and the last time to where I went to see parole, where I made parole, I kind of figured I was going home because I went to see parole, and the woman was, she had came in there, she was like, how long have you been in here?

Starting point is 01:44:37 17 years on a 25? Oh, you got to go home. It's time you to go home. And that right there, I was like, oh, man, that might be my shot there. I might be going home. You know what I'm saying? And little do you know,

Starting point is 01:44:50 I got a thing say, if I won. You know, FI1 means you go home, I think, what, 30 to 45 days? Oh, man, I can't even explain the feeling, bro. I couldn't even explain the feeling, man. I was just like, man, I'm going. I was so much shock. I was halfway, wasn't believing it was true. I was like, nah, this can't be true, man.

Starting point is 01:45:11 Maybe they messed up or something. Or, you know what I'm saying? To my homeboy, like, man, you're tripping. I'm like, nah, it's weird. Something ain't right. You know what I'm saying? My boy, like, man, you're going home, bro. You're the Dutch 17 years.

Starting point is 01:45:24 You know what I'm saying? You're supposed to be happy. I'm just like, dang. It just didn't hit me, you know what I'm saying, right away. But at time going on, it hit me, I was just like, man, I'm going home, bro. Man, you know what I'm saying? I get to see my kids. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:45:38 It's over. That's got to be a terrifying 40 days, man. Man, I'm talking about on the edge of your seat. Yeah. You just like, you try to stay away from any little thing possible. I would have stayed in my cell, dude. Man, what? Man, I'm trying to stay away from any altercation, any little situation.

Starting point is 01:45:57 I'm just, man, I don't want no parts in it. What is it? Here no evil, see no evil. All that, I don't want to be around nothing. Leave me alone, please. I just want to work out and go home. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:46:10 And the feds, I had a friend in there. When he went to the guard, he goes, hey, man, I'm two months to the gate. The guard goes, oh, shit, Camero. We had to get you in the whole. They send them straight to the hole. You know what? I actually had an officer do that and say that too. They was like, I heard you made parole.

Starting point is 01:46:27 I was like, yeah, man, I'm going on to my family, everything. They're like, I'm going to try my power not to let you get home. I was like, what? I said, why would you do that? Why would you want to see me? They were like, I'm going to try to get you a case, everything, so you don't go home. For real? So I tell the other officer in the picking, I'm like, you hear this, right?

Starting point is 01:46:45 I just want you to be a witness so you will know that this person, you know what I'm saying, trying to get me where I can't go home to my family. You know what I'm saying? Lucky the guard and the picket was cool. They were like, you know what I'm saying? I was like, man, I don't play with me like that. He walked up to you and said it. It was a woman.

Starting point is 01:47:03 It was a woman. And I know I said it on my last prison story interview with another podcast and everybody was in the comedy. Like, why you won't say the name? Say the name of the person. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to say the name of the person.

Starting point is 01:47:17 But I will say it was on the book. boy unit, and she was a woman, and she literally told me, I'm going to try whatever in my power to write you a case so you don't go home. And she would be in serious? Mm-hmm. She was being serious. No plan. Like, I'm going to stop you from going home.

Starting point is 01:47:35 I'm going to write you any kind of case. I'm just glad she said it to where the picket balls heard it and was like, nah, man, we ain't none of that going on. You know what I'm saying? People's lives are so empty and powerless. that, and this is why humans are corruptible, because you give them power over people, and that's what fills them with whatever they're missing.

Starting point is 01:47:58 But it's the lowest energy you can have is wanting to intentionally make somebody else suffer. Yeah, because they ain't getting over. They probably ain't got that power at home. Probably getting beat at home by your husband or getting ran over by your husband and cheating on or bad stuff happening to you. So now you put on that suit,

Starting point is 01:48:14 you feel like now you're the aggressor. You got the power. You finally got some control. because your home is out of control. Yeah, well, when I was talking about my homie in the feds, the guard did him a favor. Like, you got 60 days of the gate. Yeah, get in the hole for your protection.

Starting point is 01:48:32 Because on those real rough, violent USPs, you know, a motherfucker hears you're going home. No, you're not. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's kind of better. But it's the same way it takes a prison on. Not far as the degree of stabbing you,

Starting point is 01:48:46 but nobody wants to see you go home. because they got a lot of time so they're like, oh man, you know what I'm saying? So I actually had situations where people was actually trying to get me to fight. They was actually trying to get me to mess myself off. Like it could be over the domino table. They had pressed the issue even harder

Starting point is 01:49:06 to where when I wasn't making parole, you were scared to say something to me. Now of a sudden you missed a big guy. You know what I'm saying? You missed them tough talk. You know what I'm saying? And like that. And I just laugh at all

Starting point is 01:49:18 I'm like in my mind, you know, I'm smarter than that. I'm like, come on, bro. If I want to make a parole, I have you back there under the stair bloody than a month. I'll be back there beating you to death back there, bro. So I'm not trying to hear all that, man. You know what I'm saying? Oh, whoo, woo, I'm like, okay, okay.

Starting point is 01:49:34 Now, if you keep playing, I might catch you in that cell or somewhere. I can't be seen. Better watch how you're talking to me, you know what I'm saying? Might get worse for you. Did anybody get the best of you in a one-on-one? In prison? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:49:48 No. No. I can never, I ain't going to say that. I'm going to say I had close fights. Like, I'd have fought some guys that really had something. You know what I'm saying? And I wouldn't even say I whipped them. I'd say it was more like even. You know what I'm saying? Before somebody whooping me, I've never been whooped in prison. And I'm not saying I'm bad. I'm not saying I can't be whooped because I know a whole bunch of guys that have mashed me out. I just never getting a confrontation with them to fight them. You know what I'm saying? But as far as me getting whipped, I never got whooped in prison. put on your pockets. Never got put on my pocket. I've never been knocked out in my life, even in the world. I've never been put on my pocket. And I've never been dropped.

Starting point is 01:50:25 None of that. You know what I'm saying? I fight hard. I bet you beat some ass, though. Man, I fight hard, bro. I fight hard. And like I said again, I'm saying, I'm not the baddest person. I can be whooped.

Starting point is 01:50:36 I know I can. But I fight hard. You're going to have to come. You're going to have to bring it. You know what I'm saying? Now, I'll tell you a situation that happened to me that everybody was mad at me about. But it wasn't no lose situation. But all my crib home boys was mad at me

Starting point is 01:50:52 and the Bloods was mad at me because I had got into it with this Mexican guy on the basketball court. Now, I knew the Mexican guy. He was cool. We was cool. But you know how, you know, people you cool with,

Starting point is 01:51:03 you get into it with a bad football, domino or something, y'all get into it. So we was arguing over the basketball court. And it got kind of too far. We was calling each other bees and holes. And you know what I'm saying? which, you know, that's fighting words, especially in prison.

Starting point is 01:51:20 So I'm cool with him, so I'm letting, my guard is down. I'm not thinking he's going to hit me because I'm cool with him. You know what I'm thinking it's just a little simple, fuck you. You know what I'm saying? Well, I had my back churn, and I was waiting for the ball to be passed to me. He came from behind me and snuck me. Bown. Hit was so, it was so weak of a hit, bro.

Starting point is 01:51:41 It felt like a two-year-old punching you in your face when you mess with your son or something. That's how weak to hit was. I was just like, really like, what the fuck? You know what I'm saying? So at the time, that's right, at the time, the guard was coming in to count. It was count time. So my home boy was like, oh, you got to give, man, I said, man, I'm for to beat this food to death, bro. And I looked at him and I said, you're really going to hit me and you know I'm going to beat you to death.

Starting point is 01:52:10 He knew I can whoop him, you know what I'm saying? But he didn't want to seem like no hole. He was also a member of Tonga, but, like, like, he was also a member of Tonga, but So he didn't want to see, like, no hole in front of him. So he's like, man, I got to hit this dude to show him. You know what I'm saying? So, and we was real cool with Tango Blas, you know what I'm saying? So we on the rent yard.

Starting point is 01:52:28 I waited to the count go. I said, come on over here, man. You know what I'm saying? So he just rushed me and get to swinging. So it's basically like, you remember how you used to, you could hold somebody head and they'd be swinging and you just like, come on, dude. Because the dude was short.

Starting point is 01:52:42 He was like 5, 5. You know what I'm saying? I'm 5, 10 and a half. So I'm just holding him like this, like, you know what I'm saying? And I push his head and he's swinging while. My homeboy's like, no, man, mash. They want me to mash him. They want me to beat him down, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:52:56 And I'm just really looking at him like, Dad, you know I can hurt you, bro. You know, you know, I'd hurt you, bro. You know what I'm saying? And he's trying to, he's trying his best to hit me, but he missed and everything. And my homeboy's mad at me because they're like, man, mash him, man, mash him. You know what I'm saying? So I finally just give him a little two-piece just to literally. him no stop playing, you know what I said?

Starting point is 01:53:17 So I hit him, boom, boom. He was like, oh. And he went by the weights, and he was like, damn, I'm through. I'm through. And I was like, man, go on, man, just go, bro. And everybody was like, no, man, y'all got to finish that. And I'm like, bro, just gone, bro, go on, bro, for I hurt you. I don't want to hurt you.

Starting point is 01:53:34 Now you're making me mad, you know what I'm saying? Just go, bro. I don't, God, I'm going to hurt you. You too little, bro. You know what I'm saying? And he's like, yeah, yeah, I ain't no ho though. I ain't scary. I'm like, yeah, you ain't scary.

Starting point is 01:53:45 gone, bro, gone. So my homeboys was mad at me. All my Crip homeboy, they were mad at me. We get back on the wing, they're like, no, man, fuck that you should have whooped him, bro. No, man, that was... I'm like, bro, you want to fight? You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:53:57 Don't tell me what I need to do. I'll whoop you. You know what I'm saying? Don't come talking to me about what I needed to do. You know what I'm saying? But they don't know the relationship I have with this little dude. You know what I'm saying? Come on, bro.

Starting point is 01:54:09 He even came up to me after this and was like, man, I know I can't whip you. You know what I'm saying? I know you could have killed me. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, bro, it ain't nothing, man. Just chill, you know what I'm saying? So his big homeboy, all of a sudden, all of them started looking at me like,

Starting point is 01:54:25 I was weak or something, I guess, and they mind, they were like, oh, my little homeboy did his thing out there, woo-de-woof. So now I'm getting wind of it. I'm like, huh? Man, you know I could have killed your home? I'm like, no, no, hold on now. Y'all get out of line now, you know what I'm saying? So I remember this day. clear as day, we go into necessities.

Starting point is 01:54:47 We on me and his big home boy on the same wing together. So he decides he want to try me. We're going out the door. He bumps me out the door, like trying to hold me. So I look, I said, I grabbed him. I said, say, homeboy, what's up? He was like, say, man, what's up? What you want to do, floss?

Starting point is 01:55:07 I said, you know what? Let me go and show y'all what this is. So I said, come on back on the wing. So I throw my necessity down. He threw his down. He's like, what's up? Slaughtered him. You hear me?

Starting point is 01:55:18 Be them senseless. And people that was there, a vows for it. He had a patch on his eye for about three months. Beat him, I try to beat the brakes off of her. You know what I'm saying? After that, everybody was like,

Starting point is 01:55:30 oh, yeah, yeah, leave him alone. Yeah. Don't leave him alone. He ain't the one. You know what I'm saying? But it's bad that I had to do that, but they start playing me like,

Starting point is 01:55:40 after what they seen with little man, they start playing me like, They think they can play with me. You know what I'm saying? So I said, no, let me go on set the standard down. Let me go on cut this off. I'm going to go on beat you to death just to show them. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:55:53 Yeah, it's real, brother. I just, I played with your little homeboy, but I ain't for to play with you. I'm going to do you in. You know what I'm saying? You big. I'm going to do you in. Well, you're built like a fucking, you're built like Herschel Walker, dude. Man, everybody says I'm big, but I don't see it, bro.

Starting point is 01:56:07 Everybody's like, boy, you big in a month. I don't see it. You pretty thick, bro, but it's proportional. You know what I mean? So it's intimidating. Well, I ain't never been this big, bro. Man, mostly our way, bro, was between like 175, 190. I weigh 241.

Starting point is 01:56:22 God damn. I ain't never been this big in my life. I'm 241 bans, bro. And you never went to the hole for any of these? Oh, yeah. I've been to six several times. I've been to say it several times for fighting, for establish a relationship with an officer, all type of stuff.

Starting point is 01:56:38 You're not married anymore, so you spill the secrets. Were you getting laid in there? Well, I got a girl at home, but I still, she don't, yeah, I was getting laid. In the joint. Yeah, I was getting head, all type of stuff. I didn't got head. I didn't, all plating stuff and did, I did some stuff. Now, do you bust really quick when you're getting head in prison?

Starting point is 01:56:59 That's a 100% fact. That's a 100% truth, bro. I don't know. It's like you're sensitive. Yeah, bro. You know what I'm saying? Well, it's just like smoking. You're in prison.

Starting point is 01:57:12 Your tolerance is way down. Yeah, it's the same shit. You ain't going to last. You hit it once. Oh. You're not going to last in prison. If you get some head in prison, that's going to be the best feeling you ever felt your life. Oh, man.

Starting point is 01:57:25 You know what I'm saying? Especially after doing 10 years, 15 years, you get some hair, you're like, man, that's the wonderfulest feeling of the world, man. You know what I'm saying? You don't take anything for granted after that, after going 10 years with no head. Man, bro. And you got all the packages through. You never got busted.

Starting point is 01:57:44 Never got busted, bro. Thank you, Lord, man. So were you getting money in there? Were you eating at your height? Oh, yeah. Man, I had commissary bags stacked up everywhere. I used to get my celly didn't have commissary. He didn't have nobody in the world looking out for him.

Starting point is 01:57:57 I used to give him big bags. Yeah. I used to give him big bags like here, bro. He's like, nah, for real? I'm like, no, for real. You can have that. He's like, man. I'm like, bro.

Starting point is 01:58:06 That's you, man. You can have that. You know what I'm saying? We had commissary bags hanging up everywhere. You know what I said? I didn't even got my commissary took. I remember they was doing shakedown one day because they smelled some smoke on the wing.

Starting point is 01:58:19 Came in there, they searched the cell. They were like, what is you doing with all this commissary? I'm like, oh, man, they took my commissary from me. I'm like, darn. How's that leaving? Man, they can do it. They won't. This is prison.

Starting point is 01:58:31 But they, in their mind, they figured they like, all this commissary bag, he got to be the one selling stuff. So now they're watching you. Now they're watching you. Everything you do, you come. You come out the wing, they're watching you on the bowling alley. We call the bowling alley the outside. Basically, when you come out the doors, when you walk to a child or Rick,

Starting point is 01:58:50 you know what I'm saying? That's called a bowling alley. So now they're watching me. Everywhere I move, who officer I'm talking to, why is he sitting there talking to that officer for a long time? Maybe that's the one bringing the dope in. You know what I'm saying? So now you got to know how to move.

Starting point is 01:59:04 You got to move strategic. You know what I'm saying? If you see the girl that you're messing with, you don't talk to her at all. You walk right past her like you don't even know her. Until things cooled out. Even when things cooled out, you still don't want to draw no attention or no heat to her. Because you got to remember, she got a family out in the world. She got people out in the world too.

Starting point is 01:59:24 So if you get her fire, you don't fucked up her household with her husband or whoever she went at the house. Because these women got husbands and men at home. You know what I'm saying? But you got to look at it. Prison is eye candy for these women. you got all type of when you in there we ain't got nothing but time to work out that's what we're doing on our time so we chiseled up like we on that movie 300 you know what I'm saying so when women the average women big don't look good you know what I'm saying they see you they're like oh shit they know you're not messing with any other women you see what I'm saying they're looking at your body like damn that is a fine woo woo woo woo so now if you're great you're You heard that saying if you're grin, you're green, you're in. So if you're grin or give me any type of little attention, you win.

Starting point is 02:00:15 So if you show me in, damn, boy, you didn't got big or, oh, yeah, what's up? What's going on with you? Now the talk game begins. So if the talk game make it that time, now the kite game began. I'm a writer of kite. If she don't turn me in, that means she good. Boom. I ride her a little kite.

Starting point is 02:00:37 You so beautiful, your eyes and tell her what she wants. here, sneak it to her. If she take it, put in her pocket, go in the bathroom, and read her, walk off, and don't tail on you, you got her. And then it's, hey, well, Mama, could you bring me in? Yeah, after you build a relationship with her to where you get it comfortable,

Starting point is 02:00:56 to where you be like, hey, man, boy, I show me smoking cigarettes, man. I wish I had a cigarette. I got some in the car. Damn, man, you can't bring one in on your break. You think you can get one in on your break? I can get a whole pack in on my break. Man, bring me a whole pack, man, so I can smoke, man.

Starting point is 02:01:14 Damn. Then it starts with that pack. Once you get that pack, then it leads to other things, you know what I'm saying? Go on and on and on. And were you cutting in, were you cutting them in on the money, too? Yeah, yeah. Hell yeah, you got to. You got to.

Starting point is 02:01:28 We help you pay your light bill from prison, everything. You can pay your bill. I've seen dudes get officers, and they begin having new cars. Real talk. I put that on everything. thing right here to the Lord. Big money in there. Man, what?

Starting point is 02:01:42 Prison is a cash crop, bro. Bro. My home boy, I ain't going to say his name. I got a homeboy in there. He made $70,000 from prison before he left prison and made parole and went home. 70,000. $70,000, bro. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 02:01:58 And there's big money in there, bro. Yeah. Big money, especially when cash app first came out. So that's, I was going to ask. That's how you guys were doing it. Because they got phones now in prison. So you can get. They get their people to send you the money to your people cash app.

Starting point is 02:02:14 Once the money confirmed, then that person meets this person, the officer, somewhere gives them the stuff. Get an officer the money for bringing it in. Officer brings it in to you, you know what I'm saying? And that's how the- I might be giving y'all too much gay. No, we know this. And the inmates, that's how you guys are, are you trading for commissary?

Starting point is 02:02:33 No, some people do it for cash money. Some people just do it for commissary. Now, the people that's doing for casmer commissary, they small time. They probably buy little stuff off us just to sell it and make commissary for their self to have, you know what I'm saying? But the people that's really big time doing it in the penitentiary, it's all about dollars. It's all about you get people to sneak your, you get your family and visitations to sneak you $100 bills in or whatever, and you can do it that way,

Starting point is 02:03:04 and they can pay the officer that way, you know what I'm saying? Or you can get, like I said, the cash app deal. And that's how you were doing cash app or cash money? Both. Wow. Both. I can get a $100 bill in and give you what you want, you know what I'm saying? And then now that made it easier for me.

Starting point is 02:03:20 So when I go to the officer, I can be like, here's a $100 bill. Bring me three packs of cigarettes in. Yeah. So now your people on the outside don't even have to meet with you. They ain't got to do it. I can give you the $100 right here. And now you can just take it out and bring me back what I need in. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 02:03:33 Yeah, prison is real, man. It's a real. cash crop, you know what I'm saying? For everybody, for the administration, for the dirty guards, for the inmates that know how to hustle. Yeah. And then like I said, you got a lot of guards in there that are just cool, bro. They just want to see you go home, bro.

Starting point is 02:03:51 Some guards in there to make money, and some guards just, they cool guards, bro. They don't like the way you being treated. So when they say all guards are bad because they sit there and talk to inmates, no, they're not, bro. There's guards in there that actually want to see you go home to your family, bro. They're like, man, I'm tired of y'all going through this, bro. I'm tired of seeing y'all have to deal with these officers in here cussing y'all out and locking y'all up and all that, man.

Starting point is 02:04:13 You need to go on to your kids, bro. There's officers in there that'll give you the game, bro. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, man. Yeah, there's good cops. Yeah, it's good. It's just like good cops in the world. There's good cops in the world.

Starting point is 02:04:22 All cops ain't bad, bro. It's a need for cops. Can you imagine what we would not have in the world if we didn't have police out there to protect you, like the good police out there to protect you? It'll be all chaos if there was no police. police system. Everybody be killing each other. It'd be all North Dallas. Man, it'd be nothing crazyness going on. It would be your childhood. You know what I'm saying? Everywhere. Come on, man. Come on, man. Everybody ain't bad, bro. Everybody ain't bad. So you came home during the pandemic, 2020. Mm-hmm. And now you tell us, tell us what's up, dude, you're back rapping.

Starting point is 02:04:58 Man, I get out. I'm blessed by my home, a friend of my name, Karam, when I first got out, he gave me $20,000. You know what I'm saying? And, Man, I had a lot of love, man. People were just coming over, bringing me money, bro. And, man, I'm talking about that he wasn't the only person. I had, like, five other friends. You know what I'm saying? That I was actually locked up in prison with.

Starting point is 02:05:18 When I got out, they was coming over bringing me money, bringing me clothes, helping me out. You know what I said? I had a good support team, bro. And I thank all of y'all, man. I think everybody that supported me when I got out of prison and helped me get back on my feet. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 02:05:33 But I didn't start rapping right away when I got out. I think I started rapping probably, probably when I got off the ankle monitor in the GPS. I had an ankle monitor in the GPS system where I couldn't even lead the house at all. I had to be confined inside. I couldn't go in the backyard. I couldn't go in the garage. I couldn't go in the front yard. I had to be confined inside the house 24 hours of the day.

Starting point is 02:06:00 How long was that for? A year and four months. Jesus. I think I did. A year of three, four. A year to three to four months. month. I want to say probably a year in three months. Oh, beats prison.

Starting point is 02:06:11 Yeah. And a GPS system where I had a phone. Like if I was to step in the garage, the phone or start ringing. They're going, what are you doing in the garage? You know what I'm what are you doing outside that house? That's how it was, bro, for a whole year and three months. I was just like, oh, man, I got to get off this shit, man, for real. Are you off paper now? No, I'm still on parole. I think I got like two years left. You know what I'm saying? Man, well, let this be a lesson to you, everybody out there. But plug the rapping. Tell us where, tell us.

Starting point is 02:06:43 Yeah, I had a friend, his son is real deep into music and he's doing real good, man, for Nick Niggis Entertainment. And he called me over his house one day he had a studio built up in his house. And he was like, man, you rap and still? I'm like, no, man, I ain't wrote. I can't tell you the last time I wrote a rap. He was like, bro, you got, man, you're too good, man. You were cold, bro. We look up till you.

Starting point is 02:07:07 You need to get back in your music, bro. Man, I got a studio in my house. Come on to my house. So one day I went over there. I was listening to their songs and it motivated me. I was like, oh, you know what? No, forget that. I got to get this.

Starting point is 02:07:20 So I did my first song, shot my first video. He helped me pay for the video, get my stuff on. And after that, I never looked back. Now I'm so far in the game, man. I don't have been with them to every major rapper, you know, I'm on video with all type of different rappers in their videos. Man, I've been everywhere, bro. I've traveled everywhere, everything in the game.

Starting point is 02:07:41 You know what I'm saying? If you go on my Instagram, Floss underscore the boss with a THA, you'll see you can go down and be like, damn, he was with him. You know what I'm saying? I got 80-something thousand Instagram followers, you know what I'm saying? 17,000 YouTube subscribers, you know what I'm saying? I'm doing good on YouTube, everything, bro. We'll go check him out, man.

Starting point is 02:08:01 Floss the boss. Floss T-H-A boss. You know what I'm saying? It's a guy calling itself Floss-D-A-Boss, the boss. I'm Floss T-H-A-Boss. F-O-Boss. Yeah, still incorrect spelling.

Starting point is 02:08:15 Very incorrect, but, you know, it's original. Man. What a life story, bro. I appreciate your time. Man, I appreciate you for having me, man. Y'all got to mess with my boy Johnny Mitchell, man. One of the hottest podcasts in the world, man. And he's going to always bring it real to you 100%

Starting point is 02:08:32 He's always going to have the real on his show. He ain't falsified nothing. He ain't sugar-coat nothing, but he's going to always stand on business, man. Y'all make sure y'all check my guy out. I'm telling y'all, man, for real. Peace. Peace.

Starting point is 02:08:46 Unlock unlimited free grocery delivery with PC Express Pass. Shop online and get the same low, no frills prices delivered. Get your first year of PC Express Pass for just $2.50 a month. Learn more at nofrills.ca. So your decaf oat milk extra but not piping hot, four pumps of caramel, no sugar, small latte, and a large cup. That will be 10 minutes.

Starting point is 02:09:22 No worries. I'm having fun on Playojo. And I keep it fun with all the latest slot and live casino games. Plus I get instant payouts with no minimum withdrawals. Here's your decaf oat milk extra but not piping hot. Ah, thanks. Playtime's over. Mmm, lovely. Feel the fun.

Starting point is 02:09:39 Play Ojo. 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Concern about your gambling or that is someone close to you. Call 1866-531-2600 to visit connectxontera. I see.

The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - 25 to Life for Murder — How a Crip Leader's Own Lawyer Betrayed Him

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.