The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - A Professional Gambler Exposes Casinos For CHEATING & Reveals How He Beat The Vegas Odds

Episode Date: December 16, 2023

Mikki Mase went from being homeless and addicted to drugs to a sober life running several small businesses. Within a couple years he found himself making big money at the tables in Vegas and quickly became one of the cities’ most notorious high rollers. He joins the show to discuss how he discovered the casino industry cheats its customers, how he flipped the tables on the house, and the work he’s doing now to help people recover from gambling addictions! Go Support Mikki! The Innocence Project: https://innocenceproject.org/ IG: https://www.instagram.com/dirtygothboi/ Mikki’s Recovery Project: https://www.instagram.com/shakenhearts/ YouTube: @dirtygothboi This Episode Is Brought To You By The Following Sponsors: Support the show and secure your online data at https://www.expressvpn.com/CONNECTPOD Support the show & get Factor for 50% off at https://www.factormeals.com/CONNECT50 & use code CONNECT50 Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The last time I was allowed to play in Vegas with no bar is when I won. It happened to be my biggest single session win. I won $11,526,000. In one session. What's up, everybody? Today's guest is Mickey Mays, professional poker player. Mickey has won millions of dollars playing the tables in Vegas. He came on to expose all of the ways that Vegas casinos cheat people out of money.

He gave us an inside look at what it's like to be a high-stakes poker player in Vegas, partying with celebrities, gambling with their money. Nowadays, he actually helps people get clean from gambling addiction and uses his wealth and his reach to donate to a lot of different charities and funds around the world.

He has the craziest stories, you guys. And of course, if you want to hear a bonus episode with him, go over to patreon.com slash the Connect show. Without further ado, I give you Mickey Mays right here on The Connect. I just wanted to stop. I was like, what am I doing this? You know, I felt imprisoned

when I was incarcerated. I felt imprisoned when I was homeless. I felt imprisoned when I was abusing substances. And now I'm imprisoned at my work. And I was like, I still haven't done life. That's when I see the lights behind me start the flash. And I didn't even think. I just hit it.

I was driving like my life depended on. And then I parked the car, popped out, closed the door, and I started running. And he pulls out a burner, shank. It's like six inches. And he passes it to me. And he goes, here, that's yours. Don't ever leave the cell block without this.

He was the reason I made it out of that place of life. Mickey Mace. Is that your real name? No. Okay. But Mickey is your real first name? Also, sort of no. So when I was born, my name was Mordecai. And my family said, we have to Americanize it. So they picked Michael.

And the translation from Michael back into Hebrew, because I'm Jewish, is Mikhail. So Mickey's short for Mikhail. And when I was really young, like a teenager still in high school, my goal was to be an adult film star. And I wanted like the Dirt Diggler name in lights, you know? And so I was thinking, well, what could my Dirt Diggler be? And I said, you know, Mickey's, you know, people call me Mickey a kind of already. And I was like, okay, well, I got to come up with a last name type deal.

And I just like, just like Marky Mark in the movie, I was like like Mickey Mace, like Dirt Diggler, you know? And at that age, I was selling drugs and I was in the hood. So I was like, this is a great time to not use my full government name. So I just started implementing the full Mickey Mace as a teenager and it just stuck. So you were manifesting a porn career. Yeah. From a teenager.

Yeah, for sure. And you're from Jersey. I was born in New Jersey. Okay. So you've got such a fascinating wild story. And what's funny is you're kind of living that now a little bit. You're living the life of an adult film star, but, you know, on steroids. What's up, everyone? I hope you're enjoying this episode.

This is just a quick reminder that I'm going to be in Chicago on December 21st, headlining at Zanee's Comedy Club. I love Chicago. It's the best city to do comedy in. And this is my final show of my fall tour. So come out and check me out. if you're in Chicago, go to Johnny Mitchell.biz for tickets. I will see you out there.

This might be the last time I'm on the road for a very long time. So if you want to see me live, make sure to come on out. All right, Johnny Mitchell. dot biz for ticks. Let's get back into the episode. So you're, everybody that wants to know, like, you know, the full autobiography can go watch you on no jumper. You've told it on podcast before.

That's my most, my number one interview. I hate the most is no jumper. Well, I hated my first two years of podcasting. So that for a very first interview, that was pretty good. Yeah, it was viral. From Jersey, you're getting in trouble from a young age, doing drugs, selling drugs, stealing cars. Who are you, I'm fascinated by stolen car rings.

Were you contracted by, you know, somebody that could, you know, sell them wholesale on the black market? Yeah, so there's actually, we had two and sometimes kind of a third chop shop, really. The truth, like, I don't really know they chopped it. So I don't know exactly what happened. but there was a flat rate whether it had keys or didn't have keys and whether it was above or below a certain year. So there was just like a flat rate. So I already knew how much I was going to get for a car

with no keys or with keys or what year it was. So you just bring it in 24 hours a day, they'll open up the thing, you just bring it, drop it, and they hand you to cash and you're out. As many cars as you can give them, they'll take. Wow. I don't know if they put them in containers

and shipped them out of here. I don't know if they chopped them down. They could have done a vent swap. I never asked. I don't really care either. Who were these people that own the chop shops? Italians? Two were Italian and one was black.

Black. Okay. There's three spots. Wow. Wow. So how did you learn how to steal cars? Well, it's not, so I was a big, like, a home invasion guy as a kid. And so a lot of times what I'd do is I'd go into the home and on the way out take car keys and just take the car. That makes sense. Yeah. That makes sense. You're about my age, 80s, baby? A little bit younger. Okay. Okay. So yeah, it's already difficult to steal cars. I don't know how to hot wire. Just to be super clear. Like, I don't, I don't know how to hot wire car. Okay. So a lot of times what I did was I got like these younger. whoever was like a little bit younger than me that was trying to make some money, I would just tell them, I don't care how you get the car. This is the price I'll pay you to get a car.

So you're subcontracting the workout. 100%. But you're from a family of means though. You're from like a smart Jewish family. Your dad was in real estate. He ended up going to prison. Yep. Can you tell us about that?

Sure. It was a, it was a RICO case, racketeering. It was as white collars it gets. I mean, it was really simple. was like pretty standard, you know, I can't say like too many details that aren't already on the internet that you can like look up. Like it's not, it wasn't like a crazy thing. It was, you know, I mean, you know, he got himself in trouble in business. But was it, uh, was it intentional? Like, was he a wise guy? Because I know a lot of those

Jewish guys on the East Coast are affiliated or work with the Italian mafia. Was it something like that? Or was it just like a case of him like defrauding real estate investors? I would say it was more the former than the latter. Okay, so it was something involving a larger mafia case? Of the sorts. And how long, how much time did he do? He was sentenced to, I think it's six, well, they do months in the feds. I think it was 60 months, which is five years.

Five years, okay. And he served it in a camp in West Virginia. So I used to go visit him. He was in a camp. There was no, like no fence. Like it was like, you know, like it was the kind of camp where like, if you had an offense, let's say you were doing 30 years, and you never had like a single write-up while you were in the prison itself behind the wall. For like your last five years, they just stick you in this camp.

They'd be like, for 25 years, you haven't even one time untied your shoelace. Just get out of here, go over there, buddy, and enjoy your last five years. And there's still people in that camp that will go crazy and run away. Like, I saw when I was locked up, I saw dudes coming off a 20-year stretches that would go to those minimums. And like, they'd find out their girl was like sleeping around. After 20 And they would run off and then they get themselves another five years. Which is so stupid. So stupid. And they go behind the wall again anyway.

Yeah. So, okay, clearly that affected you. Clearly, you know, you're acting out because, you know, this probably did something to you. You know, caused you to grow up fast, I would assume. At the time, I didn't think it had an effect on me. And I was a bad kid before he even like, before the first indictment came. at the time when I was young, I did not think it had an effect. When I got older, I just started to question, I go, did that have an effect?

And as I started diving into that question internally, thinking like, how did it affect me? Did it affect me to what extent was that my excuse or my reason to act out or that I felt that that was such a big deal and it was all over the media? I mean, he was in the newspaper every day on TV, in the news. This is a big case. And I was like, oh, maybe I didn't feel like I was getting enough attention at home from my parents because all the focus was on him. Right. And I felt alone, right? So was I acting out to get attention?

And the deeper I got into this, I really just said, it actually doesn't matter. I did what I did. And he did what he did. And it came out. However it came out, it just did. And now all these years later, I just had where I am. So I don't actually know how much it affected me.

I never... Has your dad gone back to prison since then? Or he's out? Well, he couldn't be any more square. I swear to God, he's so square that it's actually frustrating. It's actually frustrating. And he's in real estate? Yeah.

What kind of real estate? So in New Jersey, they're called mostly garden apartments. I don't know if you're familiar with that term. Garden-style apartments? They're called garden apartments. It's like they're usually like two-story buildings. There's a unit on the first, unit on the second, and they're like studios, one-bedroom and two-bedroom. So they're really cheap.

They're like starter apartments usually. Usually like a college kid would go there or a very young family, right? Because they're very affordable, but they're still very nice. So it'd be like the perfect entry apartment. So we buy as many of those complexes as well. weekend. Got it. So you have enterprising in your family. You're a money family.

You're now a 12-year-old kid. You're on drugs. You end up homeless in New York City, uptown, Washington Heights. It's grimy up there still. Yeah. And you're on the east side by the river, I believe, or the west side. Whatever the grimy side of Washington Heights

is. It was Highbridge Park. That's right. That's right. A lot of homeless people around there, drug addicts. You're a heroin addict at this point. Okay. Are you, yes or no? I try to avoid,

like, the substance abuse conversation. I think it's like the tackiest conversation. Everybody's got that story. Everybody partied. Everybody went from recreational and then beyond.

Me, me never. No. I was never a heroin addict in Washington Heights. This matters. This matters because this is the arc of the story. I would say that,

um, my substance abuse surpassed recreational use. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh, so you're, you know, the lowest you can be.

Sure. You end up getting out of that situation, end up in Florida. Right. In a rehab center. No. I mean, I have been, but that's not at this point, chronologically, that's not accurate. At this point, my friend, we call him Charlie Hustle, he had a house and he just like, let me stay in his house.

He was also from New York. He was two years straight. And he's like, let me just try to save you. Right. And just let me stay with him. Do you think you would have died? You think you would have OD'd or been killed if you had stayed on the streets? Maybe killed.

I had OD'd so many times. It was like, but that's just part of the lifestyle. It's like very, you know, if you're a substance abuse abuser, that's very common. I'm not sure that that's what it would have taken me out.

I think more likely if I wasn't killed that I would just gone to prison. I think I'm just in long stance in prison. Because you've been in and out of jail, right? You had done like year long, like county stretches. Yeah, yeah. No,

I did, I did a few years. I served three and a quarter years. years, yeah. In and out, though? Yeah, in and out. Where? Where? New Jersey and Pennsylvania. And are these city jails, county jails, or this is actually penitentiary time? I did one penitentiary and the rest were counties. For drugs? All drugs and violence, yeah. Right. What kind of violence? Like beating people up, getting in fights. Yeah, yeah. I had a couple assault with deadly weapons. I had a few aggravated assault on police officers, a few simple assaults, you know. What's a simple assault?

Just assault? Just assault. Just simply assault. Just simply assault. The aggravate is like the level up. So sometimes I had like the level down. Like, you know, it's like a guy don't fight. It was like a mutual fist fight. You know, we get arrested. Right. Right.

Okay. So you were just a hooligan. Yeah. Taking pinches. Yeah. It was just a bad kid. Hitting licks and getting in fights. Yeah.

Yeah. So you end up in Florida, which is where everybody coming off of drugs or going to get on drugs goes. Right. Right. You, it was a tattoo shop. Yeah. So Charlie Hustle, when he picked me. up from the airport, it was a PBI I landed at.

He drove me straight to, it's called All-City Tattoo. It's on Federal Highway in Boca Raton. And he walked me in. It was Michelle and Chris Smaids, to this day I'm in touch with these people. They all saved my life, all of them collectively. And they didn't know me at the time. Charlie walks me in and he goes, Mickey, you're going to mop their floors and scrub their toilets.

And they're not going to pay you, but I'm going to let you live in my house. And I was like, say less, you know? And that's what I did. And you did that for some time until you got an opportunity. Probably about six months, probably. probably. Okay, gotcha. And then that's when you got an opportunity to start working for these guys that owned rehab clinics. Well, first I worked for a guy named Sean Dalton. Sean owned the home that Charlie was renting that we lived in. And Sean, who is, he came in just to do like maintenance on the house, right? He owned the property. And when he left, the short of it is he asked Charlie if I wanted to work, right? Like, do I want to spend a day working and he'll pay me 100 bucks? And I'm like, I'll do anything for 100 bucks. You know, I needed money. I didn't have money. I was like eating leftovers and ramen and whatever. And you want this, so about six months have passed. Now it's summertime.

We're in Florida. And he goes, I want you to paint this house. If you paint the house, give you $100. Go, sure. Got done like four hours. And he goes, you want to paint another house tomorrow? I'll give you another hundred bucks. I go, of course.

So then I quit the tattoo shop and just basically did that full time. He ended up, Sean ended up taking a contract with a sober living company. And we were rehabbing the houses, like doing some internal interior demo and then rebuilding. You know, like, so I learned everything. I had to cut tile, hang sheetrock, framing, some minor plumbing, like how to install a toilet or a sink and stuff like this. So these were not halfway houses, but like... Yeah, like halfway houses.

Okay, okay. So people coming not in treatment, but on the way out. On the way out. Yeah, I see. It was like the, you know, halfway house, three-quarter way house, you know, on the way back into integrating with society. Makes sense. Yeah.

So we took the contract to rehab all their houses. So they're halfway houses. Right. And when we finished the last one, then a guy named Jeff Thomas came to me. And Jeff and I had known each other from like just the community of the straight-est community, the sober community, whatever. And he goes, we know you're trying to straighten your life out and stay on the right path, but you're out of work.

Do you want to work with us in the facility itself? And, you know, like I said before in the past, I didn't know what I was doing and I told him that. I was like, I don't know anything. I'm like a dumb kid. I never graduated high school. I don't know anything. I'm a felon.

Like, I don't, I'm doing, I'm a day labor. Like, I don't even know what you want for me. And he goes, you'll figure it out. Just work as hard as you've been. And I did figure it out really fast. Yeah. And Jeff and his partners and the other guys, we all started learning from each other. I probably, I don't know.

I didn't have anything to offer them really. So mostly I did the learning. And I just kind of sat quiet, absorbed what I could, studied, watched. And for me, I didn't have anything else in life, but just to go to work. And you started climbing. Really fast. Bigger salary, bigger salary, bigger salary. Really fast.

You did what like, yeah, it's what you're supposed to do when you want to, take over a company is learn everything about that industry or that company. You're working like a madman. You're working like making up for lost time. You're working like everybody I met who got out of prison. Like you had that junkie hustle. You know,

I said that with all due respect. No, I know. I'm with you. You had that drive. We had nothing else, bro. Yeah. Yeah. But look,

then now you're making half a million bucks a year, I think is a salary. That was like my peak of salaries. Hey, guys. This episode is sponsored by ExpressVPN. ExpressVPN is a virtual private network. Use ExpressVPN to unlock movies and shows that are only available in other countries. This whole week, you could have been binging Fargo on Canadian Netflix using ExpressVPN.

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and it's time to kick off summer right. When I'm getting ready for the first big weekend of summer, Total Wine and More is my go-to, especially when I'm firing up the grill with family. I'll grab refreshing beers, easy drinking wines, and some hard seltzers for the cooler. And with everything that goes into summer,

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a guy that I knew, we had been co-workers on one of my, like, on the come-up, right, at one of the other facilities. He, I don't know how exactly he did, but he ended up becoming an equity partner in a treatment center, right? They were failing.

There was two guys that owned it. My buddy and then a guy that I didn't know, right? And they were failing. So I guess they internally, they had a conversation, can we do to save this thing? You know, we need help, right? We need someone who knows what they're doing and will work for cheap or whatever the conversation was because they didn't have a cash flow. So somehow they decided to contact me. So the guy, my buddy's name was Kevin. Kevin calls me and

he goes, hey, can I bring you in for a meeting? I have something really cool. I'm like, sure. I go to the meeting. I walk into the facility. I sit down with him and the other owner. They're giving me their pitch, you know, what they do, you know, blah, blah, all the usual business, you know, business meeting stuff regular. And I go, okay, well, what do you guys want for me? They go, well, we need help. We need help with infrastructure. We need help with expansion. We need help with everything. Right. And I go, okay, how much money you have? What's your, what's your marketing budget, you know? And they go, well, we're cash poor. I said, okay, what do you got for me then? I can't work for free, you know? They go, what if we give you equity? That's right. That's right.

And I saw this coming and I pressured it a bit and they offered me sweat equity. They offered me equity for my work. And that was the first one I own. And the truth is, it still didn't succeed, right? But it didn't fail at my doing. Right. It was basically unsalvageable. But what did happen was, I'm now on paper

is owning a mental health facility, right? I'm now an owner of a healthcare provider. So now when I'm taking meetings, I'm not going as a, hey, guys, I work for a rehab. I work, like, I'm not an employee. I was like, I own this thing, you know? So now I'm meeting the guys that are killing it in the game. Right.

And I knew what I was doing despite the failure of that actual first company. And so when they sat down with me, they took the meeting because I own a health care provider. When they talked to me, even though I look like this, they go, this guy's on it. He understands. He says he has the ability to resolve it. He can relate to our clients, clearly. Yeah. So they would give me a shot.

And then, you know, so they would put up the money. You had the expertise and the hustle and the sweat equity. Yeah, it was almost always sweat. It was almost always sweat equity, almost always. Occasionally I put money in. Occasionally I opened my own thing or paid for my own thing. But at some point, the ROIs are so high. The money coming in was so great that the money going out.

I was like, I can spend that at a dinner and not even realize. Right. Tell us what kind of money there is. I mean, I imagine Florida. I mean, that's just, that is the gold mine for any kind of like predatory or not, any kind of rehab center, unregulated pharmacies, you know, prescription drugs. I mean, it's the mecca of it. How much money is there in rehab centers?

Well, endless, endless. But not anymore. There was a time where it was, there was so much common practice that is now against the rules, right? Even if it wasn't harmful, what had happened was there were a lot of bad players. There absolutely were a lot of bad players, right? Who would cut corners and abuse the system. and hurt people and they wanted people to stay on drugs and keep billing insurance and like really bad things.

Of course. And kids were dying. And the thing is like, you didn't have to do that. You there was no, you could have been a good guy saving lives. Oh, I was a charity case, right? I only got like my life together because people gave me help, right? So for me, it was really easy, this concept of like, yeah, my life got saved because people helped me. I'm just going to help others and their lives will be saved.

And then it'll like this, right? What kind of fraud? Can you give us an example of like what a, fraudulent case looks like in one of those rehab centers? Sure. So, and there's so many, like there's a story about a guy named Kenny Chapman. He's doing 27 and a half years in the feds, right? Actually, they did an episode of American greed on him.

So Kenny, although he was found guilty of a lot of things, not just civil, but some serious criminal as well, but some of the things he did just on the civil side, like the fraud side, right, was overbilling. So if a patient, let's say, was there and they were taking, a urine, like a drug test, three times a week or whatever it was, he would bill for the maximum amount of testing they're doing lab work, right, even if it wasn't a necessity and even if a doctor didn't sign a DO on it, doctor's order.

So the insurance company, eventually they took a look, they go, you're telling, the insurance company says, they go, Kenny, you're telling me that this kid who was clean on Monday and clean on Tuesday how to get tested and build again Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday? They go, if he was clean Monday and Tuesday, wouldn't he also be clean on Wednesday, couldn't you wait until next Monday and be like rational? But he's getting in a thousand bucks a cup per person, you know. Right.

So it's obvious that it was a case agreed. Right. So it's essentially insurance that the money is coming in from insurance. Correct. The majority of it, it seems like. I've also heard a guys that will are in on it. Like say you own a rehab center. I being your friend will turn myself in or say, hey, I need to tell my insurance,

I got to go detox at your insurance center. I might, you might bang out the insurance company for 30 grand and we'll split it or something. Yeah, so that's patient brokering, right? Yeah. And what happened with patient brokering, which is so unfortunate,

it's not inherently and always exclusively an evil thing, but because so many kids that were either still actively in the lifestyle of using drugs and conning and stuff like this or just got out of it, their mental state was still in that, wow, look at all this month. I'm sober now. I'm like out of prison now.

I want money, right? So what happened was they would start paying kids. But the thing is you get the biggest bank for your buck when the kid comes in hissing hot. So they'd be like, here's some money up front. Go go. Hit the streets. Hit the streets. Cops on them.

I'll pay for your hotel for tonight if you need. Yeah. In the morning, I'm going to send you a driver. We're going to pick you up and bring you in. Oh, my gosh. But kids are dying. Yeah. And you didn't have to do that.

There's such an epidemic of drug abuse in the country that you don't have to do that. There's plenty of drug addicts. Yeah, like legitimate people on drugs legitimately trying to save their lives and get off drugs. All you have to do is help people. That's it. If you just help people, you still make the money. So essentially they were drug dealers who also were getting a double pop. Yeah.

And that's why the paperhead and the patient brokering and the paying whatever became such a regulated nightmare. So the feds cracked down. Huge. So it's harder to open up the center now. I'll tell you. this, there's not a single person roaming the streets that was engaged in that that did not get indicted. There's not a single person. Wow.

When I tell you, they did halls. Did you ever get hauled in? No way. I never did that stuff. Okay. So I just thought you might have got caught in like a drag net of something. I was so far from that buddy. Oh my God.

I was so squeaky clean that you could have looked. You gave me a cavity search if you wanted. Oh, I had no concern. No, no. Okay. So let's talk about that. So you're before all this regulation, you're still running. a clean operation.

Are you majority owner? I think you said you owned at a certain point. You owned or operated like 300. Pharmacies. Yeah, but it's... How many rehab centers? And what's the difference between the pharmacies and the rehab centers?

Well... And did you find that a contradiction that you're now like a pharmaceutical drug dealer but also running rehab clinics? No, no, no. Because I wasn't selling pharmaceutical medication. And matter of fact, I wasn't selling medication at all.

So what's the pharmacy about? So when a hospital or a hospice center or a nursing home needs a walking care, or a hospital bed. Who's paying for the hospital bed? The insurance company is. But they're only improving it for someone who legitimately needs to be in a bed

or in a walker. Well, where are they getting it from? Pharmacies, specific types. I see. So you supplied medical devices or for disabled people. Sure. That's all?

You didn't sell, you weren't selling pills. Never pills. It wasn't a pill mill. Never sold a single pill. So you're in your 20s while you're doing this. Sure. Yeah.

how much money were you making? I mean, are you now on? Are you rich? I was pretty on. Well, it's all relative. I'll tell you, like now, even whatever amount of money I've amassed, some of the people I'm around are like,

forget about you, kid. And I'm thinking I'm like, God, you don't know what my bank account says, so it's all relative. So are you, you have other investors staking you as you're expanding these pharmacies and rehab center? Well, it was pretty easy.

Like, you can start a pharmacy so you just hire a consultant really because they do everything for you right they just hand you the paperwork the eyes already dotted teaser crossed they just go sign here put your EIN here put your NPA you know you're just really

you're applying for NPI's we'll put it here it's very simple right and you can get it anywhere from $7,500 to $15K and then on top of that depending on what kind of pharmacy you have and there's many types of pharmacies

and there's only a couple what you're considering with the medication it's called a retail pharmacy retail pharmacies are inevitably never going to be profitable based on the selling of pills to a month or a pharmacy like CVS or Rite Aid or even a mom and pop,

a successful month specifically in the medication department is them breaking even. They make all their money on the rebates from the manufacturers. That's where the money is being made. Interesting. Yeah. So those pharmacies,

you need a very large customer base, right? Because it's all about quantity and what the quantity comes to the rebates. So different types of pharmacies like drop ship pharmacy. You only have to have a hundred square foot office, right? So you can lease an office anywhere you want and be super cheap. Cost you $500 a month.

First, last security, called $1,500. Plus your staff member, imagine you're paying $500. There's another $2K, right? $500 a week, paying $2K to sit in the office answering phones. But you're a drop-ship pharmacy. So nobody's coming in. Right. And nothing is like leaving from there.

You're really just, you're like the middleman between the manufacturer and the patient. Right. That's who I get my dick pills sent every month from the pharmacy. Yeah, exactly right. Just from the drop shipper. Exactly right. Just same concept. I might go into business, dude.

Same concept. So you got a great business mind. Sure. You just, and your expertise was just in numbers. Yeah. Math. You're a good marketer too, though. You know, you know how to market yourself.

I figured out advertising pretty early on advertising because everything was some version of, like, how you say, like high social acuity, right? So it was just like this sort of. but I'm trying to figure out your mind. I'm trying to figure out how you took this step to becoming this wildly successful professional gambler. Like clearly there was there, the skill set,

your mind is, is, works in a different way. And it's definitely math oriented. It's numbers oriented. You're a numbers guy. Yeah. I don't really know that much, right?

I'm not a smart guy. Like, I don't like, I'm not, you know, obviously, you know, it's not like it's written on my number.

my face. But you know, you're a Jewish kid. You're a bean counter. You guys, you just, you know how to take one dollar and turn it into two. Yeah. I love this. I wish I had this mind. I, you know, and I want to use it as kind of motivation for people that like think they need a bunch of money to start a business. No, I saw. I was homeless. Dude, tell us about real quick before we get into the transition to gambling. Sure. You and your, a couple of friends or a couple of business partners would sit in like a boiler room. Yeah. Oh, yeah. This is my, this is one of my favorite parts of my life story. Like this is one of my best moments. So, so, okay, so we had many offices, right? But each office

served a purpose. Like there was a business being ran out of there, a specific thing. Well, we needed a place where we can say it was me and two guys, right? Unfortunately, one of them was murdered. So rest in peace, Sam Rizzo, but, and then there's Rusty who is still with us, thank God, you know. And the three of us were best friends. We did everything together. We went on vacations together, we, you know, work together, we hung out, everything. And so we were like, we need to be together more, right? If we're partners, we need to do this, even though our

businesses are scattered everywhere. So we, um, we rented an office in a high rise, uh, in a boca, or tone, also on federal highway. And the way it went, when you walked in would be kind of like the Sally Port. It was like, I guess it's supposed to be like the receptionist area, right? It was like you walk in the main door of the office and it was like this room about the size of this, actually probably about the size of this studio here, right? And then we had doors on all the walls that went into the rest of the offices. Those are probably supposed to be like the owner's offices. But what we did instead was, because nobody was really coming in and out of this office for

meetings to meet with us, right? This was like our headquarters, our nucleus. So we, me, Rizzo and Rusty put our desks in here so we'd be on top of each other. So if any of us are working on something, as we're taking phone calls, even though it's like a private call, one of us went over here and be like, I got a guy for that. I heard something about that. Oh, you're thinking about that? I heard about that last week,

and I heard so-and-so is crushing it. We should look into that. So it was like that. And what we do is every time we have one of these ideas, we just retrofit one of these side offices to run a beta test and whatever that new idea was. And if it worked, we'd sell it or just expand it into one of our other offices.

Wow. So it's just you're constantly looking at the best businesses to make money out of. Yeah, that was our only current path. We didn't have other goals or ambitions. What were some of your, what were some of your most successful ventures, aside from the medical stuff? A lot of it was in the healthcare because I started by working in healthcare.

That's like I went from homeless to day laborer to healthcare, right? So that was our backbone and we understood that all the failures we were going to inevitably have, and we had so many, were always going to be funded by our bread and butter, which was your core business. Our core business. So what were some ancillary businesses that you remember, just a few of them that did well? That did well. We sold software for a while.

That was cool. We sold software. None of us are software people. I couldn't even turn a computer on if you wanted me to. Yeah, you just found out what podcasts were. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, seriously, you know, so, but we knew how to sell things.

We knew somebody that was, that was manufacturing them. We found leads for them. I also, I just realized, okay, okay. So we found leads for them and we found an outlet. It just made sense. We just connected the dots. Yeah. And we just took a Vig on it.

That's it. A little markup. Yeah. It was easy. Yeah. You can plug and play any widget. anything. All you have to do is to have a customer base. Manufacturing a customer base.

And how would you find that customer base? So this is so interesting. I don't know how I overlooked this. Actually, the most profitable business I had that was an ancillary was lead gen. The lead gen was a pure accident. This is what happened. I had a friend who had very large sales offices all over the world. Right?

And he was like a really close friend. You know, we used to like double day. We'd go on trips, whatever. And we're talking one day. and he goes, yeah, I'm going to shut down one of my big offices. I go, what happened? And he goes, well, blah, blah, not relevant. What was relevant, he said, we just bought all these leads, man.

I go, oh, what kind of leads? Just having my friend, just conversation. And he goes, we just bought the national consumer database. And I go, wow. I go, are they vetted? Are they qualified? Are they targeted? And he goes, no, I just have every single American's phone number, name, and address.

Jesus Christ I go I go what are you going to do with it And he goes You got any ideas And I go let me think about it So this is what I did I went to a lot of the

Everybody that we knew Because our whole life Was only about work Right We didn't have like Non-work related friends We just called all our friends And I go

What's your hot product right now What are you selling And I remember one guy said to me I'm selling What do you say I forget what he said It doesn't even matter right He said a particular product

He goes, that's hot for me right now. I'm on it, right? I go, great. Can I give you some free leads and you tell me how they are? And he goes, yeah, of course, I'll take free leads. Because in sales, leads is everything, right? And these guys are just literally dialing. Dialing for dollars, like direct sales.

Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah. So he goes, yeah, I'll take free leads and I'll tell you how they go. I'll just give them to some guys and we'll figure it out. I said, great. What I'm going to do is, though, I'm not going to hand you to leads. I'm just going to route my dialing system to your call center.

And he goes, okay. So he's like, I, I, I, I, There's a way to connect how many computers you want. Whatever. I said, tell me how many computers you want and I'm going to route their dialers. When they route the dialers, I controlled when they get to click the disposition of the call. So what I did on my dialer that they were now accessing is I put all these irrelevant questions. Do you have sore feet?

Do you have a sore back? Do you have hair loss? Do you have erectile dysfunction? And the guy was, I forget who was selling like car insurance or something, right? So if you're the consumer and the salesman that he works for my buddy is good, right? And you're the consumer and you're on the phone with a salesman and he's good. And he goes, hey, man, I'm selling car insurance. I see her between the age of 35 and 40 and blah, blah, blah, and all this.

And he goes, yeah, I'm interested in car insurance. Now the salesman can't go to the next page until he clicks the following answers. Do you have erectile dysfunction? Do you have foot pain? Do you have gangrene? Do you have hair loss? Whatever. The consumer doesn't know what's happening.

they're like, this is a stupid question, but car insurance, bureaucracy, whatever. What they're really doing is I had that salesman qualifying my leads. So then I would call a guy that I know who sells erectile dysfunction medication. And I'd say, hey, I have specifically targeted erectile dysfunction patients.

Do you want these leads? And those are more valuable. Yeah, because they're so targeted. They're hot leads. 10 minutes ago, a guy hung up and said, I got ED. And I go, a guy who sells ED, my friend, Here you go.

Call this guy. He's going to buy him right now. But then I would do it to that salesman also. And I was constantly vetting and vetting and re-qualifying all my own data. And I didn't pay for the data to begin with. I just got my buddy who already bought them. I said, listen, I'm not going to pay for them, but I'll get you some money back on it. I'll give you a piece of whatever I get.

And he goes, better than nothing. We all ended up making a lot of money. But all we were doing, we kept requalifying the same piece of consumer data. Wow. So if you told me on the first initial call for car insurance that you had hair loss, ED, toe fungus, and ingrown fingernail, your same piece of consumer data is going to four of my other friends

to sell you on those specific things. And then when you speak to those guys, they're going to ask you other questions that I've created on their, it's my dialer that they're using. And now we're asking you even more. Yeah, do you have back pain? Do you have any pets? Yeah, you got pets.

Are you allergic to cats? Are you moving houses? I got guys that do logistics. I'll give you right, boom. I'll give the logistics leads right to you. How do you scale this? This seems like a mass. massive time taker.

Well, all I had was time. All you were doing was working. That's it. Yeah. How many people would you talk to a day? Or how many calls would your sales guys make a day? Hundreds of thousands. But we had call centers all over the world.

No, not a day. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but we had call centers all over the world. Right. It's easy. So there's call centers in all these other countries where the dollar goes so far. Right. And all they have to do is sit down.

That's it. That's the big one right now. Wow. Fascinating. Yeah. So you did well. So, okay. Yeah.

Okay, so you got, you're just a money guy. It's coming in from every angle. You're staying sober. It wasn't about the money either. I had way more than I ever had or needed for the, I lived a pretty simple life, you know. It was just what we did. We didn't know anything else. It was, don't do drugs, go to work.

That's all we knew. So how then did this transition into who you are now and what you were to become? So I grew up in like New York City card rooms. I grew up around that stuff, the Italian family. and the rich Jewish kids. So gambling was in my blood, who's in my family, is in my neighborhoods,

it was just regular. And then my life took all the dark turns and gambling was no longer an option for leisure. I had no leisure, right? So now I'm making money again. And there's casinos local to where I was living. Where are you living? Oh, down in Florida.

Yeah, in Florida. Yeah, yeah. So there was the hard rock. There was Coconut Creek, which is actually like my go-to. Like, there's a group of us. We all work together. We all were together every day.

And a group of us would be like, Let's go get dinner at NYU, right? Which is the steakhouse, you know? Let's do it. We're there. We're eating. We'd all look at each other and go, you guys want to hit the tables? Yeah, let's go.

And so we were gambling almost every day, right? When we were getting up getting, but the things, none of us were like really winning. Like none of us did it to win. We were just degenerates. We were kids with too much money and we're just having a good time. Anyway, so the businesses, all the businesses are growing. The money's coming in. Great time for everybody.

Blah, blah, blah. This is all, like, new to all of us because we're all like young guys. and we didn't know that this was coming in our future and having a good time. I end up getting out of the business. So a byproduct, which was unfortunate of me, Rizzo and Rusty, being so 24 hours a day, seven days a week for so many years intertwined,

is that eventually, we used to rub each other the wrong way, which is going to happen always, and we'd find a way to work through it. At some point, the three of us stopped being able to work through it. It was just, there was never a moment we weren't on top of each other. And if we had a disagreement in one category of our life, slowly it started to infiltrate and trickle into all the areas of our life. And this became problematic.

So I bought them two out. When I bought them out shortly after Rizzo was murdered and Rusty had sort of gone off the grid and he went to live a quiet life, right? I was giving them his checks every month and that was that. And when they were no longer in my business picture, I didn't have to take their thoughts, feelings, or opinions into. account. And it, I don't know what it was, but it turns out I was right that my ideas the whole time are better than their ideas. And I can only say that because the evidence says that. When they no longer were decision makers and I was the sole decision maker, the companies exploded well beyond like what I anticipated them to do, especially in the short time period

it was, you know? And a short amount of time goes by. I'm doing all of the work, which was a lot, but I'm making all of the money, which was also a lot. I just want to stop. I was like, what am I doing this? You know, I felt imprisoned when I was incarcerated. I felt imprisoned when I was homeless. I felt imprisoned when I was abusing substances. And now I'm imprisoned at my work. I'm like, I'm getting older. I'm in like my mid to late 20s-ish, like mid, you know, whatever. And I was like, I still haven't done life. Yeah. You know. You haven't gotten an adult film star yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or any of the other fun things. Is that percolating in your mind still? Like, do you still want to? No, because-

on camera? Well, because I do so much anyway, a lot of the girls around me are adult stars, so a lot of them, you know, when we are together for themselves, like, hey, can we just record this? I want to look back on it. Are you still, at this time when you're in Florida and you're making money, or did you start to hang out with

porn stars? Like is that? No. You haven't got into that quite yet. No, not quite yet. I was, I had quite my possibly above average share of, you know, sexual partners, but no, there was like occasional, occasionally I'd have like a porn star and I was like whoa this is cool like you know like mark it off the bucket list

but nah not really not today it's just my so my social circle is made up of a lot of female well because it's you you live now the version of like a hollywood you you're Hollywood but in the gambling space and I feel like when you're a professional gambler in Vegas porn stars are just there like that's part of the deal you know it's like peanut butter and jelly so but okay so how tell us about the gambling yeah so uh I sold the companies yeah I sold, stopped operating, or gave away, which are really challenging concepts to understand to someone's ever been in that position.

Take my word for it, right? At the time, it just made the most sense. And I just stopped. And so now I have this money and my girl was living with me. We split up, right? I moved her out, got her a crib and a car, whatever. She's on her own.

I'm now living alone. My two best friends and business partners are no longer in the picture because I bought them out, right? I'm no longer working, so I'm not busy. and I'm just like sitting. I lived on the beach in the Miami area, and I'm just like sitting every day and I'm like, I got to do something different.

And I go, well, I've never been to L.A. And I had an idea for a really incredible business venture. In L.A. County had the perfect demographic of people I needed to beta test this concept. And it was so phenomenal. And regardless, whether that idea happened, came to my head or not, L.A. just seemed like the move. I was like, I'm young.

I'm rich. I'm single, let me go be like a retired bachelor or whatever and just party and check it out. So I come out to L.A. And one of the most important employees I had for my businesses was based here in L.A. And he's a degenerate gambler. And again, I've always been a degenerate gambler. So him being basically my only friend in L.A. when I first arrived, we didn't know what else to do with ourselves, but go gamble. Then COVID comes.

And when COVID comes, L.A. shut down. You know, L.A. was one of the cities that they tried to arrest you. if you weren't an essential worker in the street. Vegas was the opposite. Vegas stayed open to the bitter end. They're like, screw you. We're not close until you close us, you know. So when L.A. starts shutting down,

Vegas stays open. So it was really easy for me and my boy to just spend all our time in Vegas. And in the beginning, we were just gambling regular. What are you playing at the beginning? What's your game? Blackjack and Baccarat. Okay.

Yeah. And we play everything, but those are games we liked. And you know, I was buying in between, you know, I'd say weekly, maybe 30 to 50K and we were winning like 30 to 50K roughly you know and we did that for like a little while per week yeah every week yeah okay so you're about breaking even no we were winning 30 to 50 we're profitable like almost week after week we had some losses but i never went there thinking i was going to win we just went there to blow off steam and party because l.a shut down so we just happened to be

winning so for us the con we were just thinking like we're having a great time partying we're meeting tons of women meeting more guys you know guys also like friends right and we're making some money. Like, this is a sweet gig. So a little bit of time passes. Most weeks were a winner, but probably a decent bit was luck. And we just didn't care. We weren't. To make 50 grand a week profit in Vegas, what do you need to be putting down? Well, we were putting down. So we put down between 30 and 50 and our profit was about 30 and 50. Roughly we doubled up. You doubled up. Yeah, roughly we doubled up. So now, are you getting love from the casinos at this point? Tons of love. Guys, I need to take a minute to tell you about factor meals. Don't spend all of your time

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happy holidays. Let's get back to it. If you're spending 50 grand a week in Vegas, between how many casinos is that? What was your preferred casino at the time? And what do they start to do for you in terms of like flying you out on private jets? Yeah. Does that all come in at this point? Halfway.

I'm not going to say what my preferred casino is because I don't want to promote them. I don't think anybody should gamble. I discourage gambling. Okay. So I don't want anyone to think it's promotion. But usually we usually play like, on a weekly basis to sometimes a third casino. Like, if we're getting crushed at two of them.

Yeah. If we're getting crushed at one, we'd go to a second one. And we're getting crushed there, which wasn't that often. Then we'd go to like a third company, you know. They would give me a lot of things. But I also didn't know what I was allowed. Like, I didn't know what I was eligible to get. So I didn't know what to ask for it.

You know, I was just getting what they were giving, but they were only giving a little bit more than the other company gave to get my business. Okay. So who, who, what are they giving? you at this point. Just sweets. They're like limos, right? So unlimited limousine rides. They would reimburse me for flights. So I'd fly like JSX or like, you know, first class or whatever.

And they just like give me the cash when I arrived. They gave me free entry and auto qualified me to every quarterfinals of every tournament on the strip. You know, so you could win, you know, one, two, I don't think there was many that were bigger than $2 million dollars wins. I think the tournaments were roughly like a million bucks and $2 million to the winner. I was getting not just free entry, but I was auto-qualifying into the quarter round. So I only had to win two rounds and I got one or two million dollars. They did pay in promo chips, but nonetheless, it's convertible. Right.

You make money. And so you were playing tournaments at this point too. Yeah. Okay. So you're starting to get good. Yeah. What were some of your first tournaments? What were some of those big wins in those tournaments at the beginning?

Um, yeah, a million and two million. But it's promo chips. So you can't just take the chips, go to the cage and say, give me a million dollars. you have to play those chips and there's two types of promo chips there's one that when you place the bet they are taking that chip away from you and if you lose you get nothing

but if you win you get back the equivalent of that chip in convertible chips I see I see so you have to win them you have to win no matter what promo chip you get you have to win and make it convertible to cash so if you if they give you if you win $2 million with the promo chips you'll get realistically you'll get a quarter million in cash

that's what it'll probably be Okay. Yeah. Not bad though. Yeah. Yeah. And how fast could you convert that? How fast could you convert that?

Fast. So there used to be a trick we used to be able to do. You can't do it anymore, but we used to be able to do this. When you get paid promo chips, you go to a Bachrat table, you bet max bet on bank and the equal max bet on player. You're always going to lose one, but you're always going to win the other, unless it's a tie. So if you got $2 million in promo chips, you're walking away with a million dollars in cash minus commissions and minus ties. But they stop letting us do that. Is that because you kept winning?

I don't know if it's because I kept winning, but in the gambling community, we knew we can do that. We did that. Now we can't. Okay, so you're starting to make inroads into the community. Yeah.

You're part of the gambling community now in Vegas. It's a small pool. You know, there's only so many of us. Are you posted on Instagram? Like, what do the casinos get out of giving you free stuff? I didn't even have social media.

Okay. So what is their incentive to, I guess because they, keep putting money down. I keep coming back. Yeah, you keep coming back. Yeah, the law of large numbers eventually I'm going to lose. Right.

So while this is happening, they're giving me all this incentive. They go, oh, new kids on the block, me and my buddy, putting down pretty big money. They're like, we don't care win or lose. We can afford either way. But it's going to get bigger. Give him more because then he's going to give us more. Now, okay, how long does this take six months, three months? About a year.

Okay. Are you still at this point just having fun with your, buddies or are you thinking consciously, hey, no, come on, bro. You're too smart for that. You're not thinking, hey, if we go do this at the backerat table, we'll be able to get this much out of it. We wanted to make money. We loved making money.

We weren't going to Vegas to make money. We were hoping to make money. How much did you spend in the first year and how much did you make? I mean, it's, I don't know, simple math. 30 to 50K spend a week, but 30 to 50K profit a week, roughly. Okay, so that's $25 million bucks. No, no, no, no, no, no, we did less than that. Right?

Is that the actual amount? 50K times 50 weeks. 50K a week times 50 weeks. No, we had some losing weeks. $2.5 million. Sorry. Yeah, we have losing weeks anyway. You can see, I don't gamble much. Realistically, this is a guess.

I'm making this up right now. Probably we made like a million bucks that year total. Yeah. Probably. Right. Okay. I'm making that up. I don't really, really know.

We had losing weeks. Again, we weren't going there. Okay. Thinking we're going to win. We're going there just hoping to win. Right. Have a good time. Right.

But then around, I'm going to estimate it around the one year mark, we said to ourselves, this is going pretty well. What happens if we put an extra zero behind our buying in? And we're like, let's try it. So we did try it. So now we're buying in 100, 200, 300,000, occasionally a half a million. But our cash outs also had another zero because we're still winning. We're still doubling the money.

It's just unit size. So we still won at the same ratio. So now I'm winning 100, 200, 300, sometimes 500,000 in a week. And really quickly, this didn't last that long. Really quickly, we looked at each other and we go, this is something we need to pay attention now. Okay.

And that's when we started taking it seriously. And that's when it no longer was for fun and we were there for business. It was work. Okay. So tell us about how this converted into a business. What was the first, what was like the first hustle? What was the first conscious business move now that the money is like pouring in? Okay, so the first move was that we needed to be conscious of what we're doing.

That was the very first important thing. Because in the beginning, we weren't. We were just partying. We had the girls and like stranger new friends, right? And like trying all these new things and new restaurants and new clubs. And whatever the casino gave us, we were eating it up. We're like, oh, yeah, front road tickets, floor seats, blah. And just going with no like consciousness.

So the first thing is we sat back and go, what here is a trick? what here is a tool. We're like, okay, all of that's a trick. But this little piece here, that's a tool. So we're going to stop doing that, but we're going to build more on this. And then I told the casino, I go, hey, instead of giving me all this,

can I just get more of this? Which was? Whatever it was. To be honest, I don't remember, like, the specific thing. It was like a collective, like small things. Like, uh... But what was the first trick, though? What do you mean the first trick?

Well, the first tool, excuse me. The first tool? Yeah. Like, what was like your target? Oh, betting limits. Betting limits was the first tool. Okay. Okay, so you can negotiate betting limits depending on your deposit money, front money, or credit line.

This was the, I'm sorry, that was the answer you were looking for. Betting limits. Okay. I have one of the highest limits in Vegas history. Well, I did. I was allowed to bet $300,000 a hand in Baccarap, $75,000 a hand in a blackjack shoe, and $50,000 a hand in a double deck shoe. On the 75K hand in the blackjack shoe, or I think it was in up to three hands of an aggregate

of 75,000, don't quote me, the truth I didn't really place you, I played double deck and Bacharab. And on double deck, I had 50,000 a hand, or an aggregate of 70,000 across three hands. It was like 50,000 for one, 35 for two,

or whatever, or 25 for three. That was my breakdown on double deck. But when you walk in into a casino, you only see what the sign says. That sign is for the general public. That's for the ill-informed. Yeah, that's for the PLEBs, peasants.

Yes, right. That's for those that just don't know. And those limits are put there to abuse the players. So you can negotiate. So a guy, and I know a lot of guys, a lot of trappers do this, actually. They have so much money and they don't have to do with it. Drug dealers. Yeah, drug dealers.

They sit down at a table and they just start playing, right? And they go, oh, I'm only allowed to bet 10K. It's what the sign says. But they bought in for six figures. So 10K at a time, the most they could win, you think how many hands you got to win to make. make enough money for a guy who's making millions selling drugs, right, to have an effect on him. It's not going to happen. But if you sit there long enough, you will lose. And you can lose it all

10K to hand, but you can't win it all 10K to hand. You know what I mean? So these guys are sitting there forever chasing a win that they will never get at $10,000 a hand. So you need to win, you need to have higher limits. And that's what you had. But why would the casino knowing that, they must have known that? Why would they give you a higher limit? So it's pretty standard protocol, right? And the reason they allow it is they think that everyone's still going to lose eventually. So if this guy's so rich and he wants to bet bigger, that means he's going to

lose more and faster. But what happened with me was the opposite effect. I won more, bigger, faster, more. How? How? Let's just focus on your two favorite games. Baccarat and Blackjack. Start with Baccarat. Putting down 300,000 a hand. My nipples are getting hard right now. I'm tingling.

just for accuracy. I actually didn't take the deal to bet 300k a hand. I took the deal to bet 250k a hand. Just for accuracy of this of my reality. Right. Excuse me. A mere quarter, quarter rock a hand. A quarter million a hand. What, what, uh, in back rat? What was your, what was your tool? What was your advantage? Well, I, I, what did you do? I figured out how they cheated and I reverse engineered it. I have no idea what the fuck that means. Explain. So casinos deploy all these cheating tactics

and they're endless and they're so far and beyond and there's like a blanket they use to screw with Gen Pop, right? And most people fall victim to it. When me and my guys saw all of the tricks and the little bit of tools,

we saw pretty quickly when we erased all the tricks A lot of the typical methods of manipulating a patron in a casino also vanished. And we saw right through it. And now we're staring face to face when we go, they were trying to trick us with that. I can't believe we fell for it for the first year, you know? And we go, okay, if they're going to trick us with that, what else are they going to trick us with? We started digging deeper and deeper. And as we got deeper into that on our own internally, and we also started getting deeper

into the gambling community. It's a sharp community. You know what that means? Sharps. So gambling sharp is somebody who has an edge, right? They're guys that are backed off. Like there's a lot of sports sharps. Those are a lot of, there's 90%.

Sharks? I thought they were called Sharks. Is that the same thing? No. No. Kind of similar. Yeah, similar. Similar.

It almost means the same thing. Hang on though. Give me an example of one way that a casino would cheat an average person playing back or at. I don't want to say. Why not? Well, I'm selling it for $50 million. You're selling. Oh, right.

You're selling this as like a proprietary thing. Yeah. Who are you selling it? to. Whoever wants it. Interesting. So you're kind of putting that out there right now. So there's any whales listening, contact you. Realistically, I think the casinos are going to try to pay me off to catch me if you can me. I think the casinos are going to pay me to tell them what it is exactly I figured out they did and how did I reverse engineer it. And they're going to try to prevent it from anyone else knowing. Okay. So that's what I think is really happening. So this is like an

active thing. Right now. This is like, okay. So you essentially would take one of these ways that you would identify these ways that they would cheat normal people and then you would just cheat them using the same method? Yeah, it's like this. Imagine me and you were playing poker together and I knew you had an ace of spade in your sleeve, but you didn't know that I knew you had an ace of spade. That means every time there's an ace on the board, I know that you have a pair of aces, but you don't know that I know that.

So when I have some random seven deuce in my hand and the flop comes ace seven deuce, you think your aces are the nuts. But the whole time I knew you had aces and I got seven deuce and I take all your money. Okay. So you're telling me allegedly. that Vegas dealers have cards in their sleeves? That's not what I'm saying. Okay.

That's not what I'm saying. It's much more sophisticated than that. It's sophisticated and 94% of the time, it's outside of the dealer. The dealer actually has no idea. They stay ignorant. They're uninformed of what's happening. Usually what's happening is the dealers are being used as a tool

to cheat on behalf of the casinos that they're unaware of. And for many reasons, it's important the dealer is unaware that they're being used as a tool to cheat the player. Of course. Of course, it was like the assassination of JFK. He was just a patsy. Right. Sorry, bad analogy.

Anyways, who's in on the pit bosses? Pit bosses. I think it's usually above the pit boss. So this is what I think. I think there's the higher up the ranks you go, the higher up involvement or awareness they have. So for example, let's say there are some dealers that are in on it, right? But let's say we're talking about the majority of dealers.

Like the kind of dealers that have social media, maybe they're young, we'll be watching this and comment. and I get this all the time. I'm a dealer and I definitely have never cheated. Yeah, we know because they knew that you weren't capable of it. So they wanted to make sure you're in the 94% of dealers that have no idea that you're being used as a pawn. Yeah, you're making $30 an hour.

Yeah. Nobody needs you. Yeah, exactly. They don't need you to cheat. You're not the one buddy, right? So, what was your original question? Oh, how high up they all? Yeah.

Okay. So those guys, the 94% of dealers have zero knowledge, right? zero pressure, zero understanding. They just think a guy's losing or a guy's winning and they don't know the difference. They're like, I hope this guy wins because if he wins, he's going to tip me. And the dealer probably truly thinks that and believes that.

And they don't know anything else. Makes perfect sense. So then there'll be, let's call it a first pit boss, right? And that first pit boss knows very, very little except when a particular special player is there that they need to keep an eye on them and make sure it doesn't do any funny business, right? that pit boss is thinking oh sometimes he wins big sometimes he loses big people have slate of hand

let me just keep an eye right then there's a pit boss above that and that pit boss was told keep an eye on this pit boss and make sure that player stays at that table as long as possible now they don't know why they want that player there they're thinking standard oh the longer they play the longer they lose the more they lose let's get them drunk what they really need is some time to implement certain sheets created for that exact player but that pit boss doesn't know that That pit boss thinks my job is to keep the player here. Give them comps. Make sure there's a waitress always here.

Make sure the food is coming fast enough. I was told keep the player at the table. I'm going to keep me at the table. You don't know why. And this guy, this second pit boss, he's the one actually looking at the cameras now? No, he'll be on the floor also. So these guys are still on the floor.

Who's above that second pit boss? So then there comes another pit boss, right? And that next pit boss might be involved with the surveillance room. And from the surveillance room, they're keeping an eye on that player and maybe the player's entourage. What are they doing? where are they going? How do we manipulate the whole group?

How do we keep them long enough to implement a cheat we're trying to do? Are they catching on to one of the cheats? Have they, without even being conscious of it, figured out a way around the cheat? Because sometimes it's obvious. Sometimes there's very simple things they do that if you don't catch it, it'll take all your money. But if you catch it by pure, you just saw it.

Like you didn't think nothing of it. You make a slight adjustment in the way you play. They go, okay, they figured that one out. Time for the next one. Call upstairs. And they call the next guy. Who is? It'd be like a lower ranking executive, for example.

You know, oh, I'm not like sitting in the room next to these guys as they're doing this. I realize that, but I'm trying to put together this conspiracy, like who's benefiting? This is what I would, when I picture in my imagination, this chain of communication, I'm picturing 10 people from the very top down to the dealer, 10 in total. And it's in my imagination. I don't know if it's really 10. Could be 100, could be 5. I don't know.

Okay. But it starts at a dealer who doesn't know anything and they're being used as a tool. then it goes to a pit boss who hardly knows anything, also a tool. Then a slightly higher pit boss doesn't really know that much, also being used as a tool. Then it goes to surveillance. They know half. Then it goes to a guy above him knows 80%. So I get so a guy who's at the top making all of the decisions and putting all these other

nine people in place to perfectly craft a position for the players to lose. So what you're saying is it is very likely that casino executives or general managers, people who are responsible for the win or the Rio or the Tropicana are actually implementing and having a mandate to cheat their customers. Without a doubt. There you have it, folks. Right from the horse's mouth. So what you're doing now is you're saying,

fuck them, you're identifying that cheat and fighting fire with fire, cheating back. And it's working. I mean, I got a few tens of millions that said it worked. Now, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Let's a lot of people, rightly so perhaps, in the comments, if you give a fuck about the comments, people will say this is cap. Sure.

Yeah, sure, sure. One of the questions I had, I just want to put it to bed right now. You're not the sion, the air of actual casino owners. No, no, no, okay. You saw that rumor floating around the internet. So listen to this story. Let me tell you how the rumor got started. So stupid.

my whole family forever is high stakes degenerate gamblers. I believe that. I have a great uncle who one time in a card game won a piece of a casino in a country. I have no idea what country. And within, I don't know the timeline. I'm going to make this up. The rumor in my family is a couple of months. He then in another card game lost ownership of that casino.

It was not like my family doesn't own casinos. So your dad is in Sheldon Adelson. Definitely not. rest of peace. Rest and peace, Sheldon. No, definitely not. Definitely not. So you're not the air of,

you're not the great grandson of Mr. Wynn. No, no, no, no. Steve Wynn. No, no, no. I'm just some guy. Okay. So this is not a, this is not a cap. No, no, no.

Okay. So you gotta think, we've had so many casino executive, surveillance people. I've exposed my tax records. I've exposed all my win loss statements multiple times live on the air. All of it's on the internet. You can just like look it up.

And you do, you do post pictures with, you know, millions of dollars in cash. It's coming from somewhere. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so... I mean, casinos I've came forward. I mean, it's not a secret. I won in casino.

It's not a secret. Have you ever had FBI approach you? Have you ever had IRS try to take you down? As a matter of fact, my taxes are the simplest taxes I've ever done in my life now when I was gambling. They've been in my whole life. And I've seen a lot of taxes, talk to a lot of other business owners. My taxes are so simple as a professional gambler. The casino tells me how much I've won.

That's what I owe a tax on. It couldn't be... Simply. How does that work? So do you have, were you putting your gambling money, your bank in an LLC? and running it through that way? You're actually not supposed to do that. You're not supposed to do that. It's just, it's not even a company. It's just my personal.

It's your personal. Yeah, so simple, yeah. Interesting. What was your bank? So you obviously you and your boy, your business partner, are going in very disciplined now. What was your, what was your personal limit? We like, we buy in for three million at a time. That was our sweet number.

Okay. And we negotiated with the casinos for my quarter million dollars in hand and 50K double deck, a three million dollar buying, which was fine, because we like buying it for three million. And the reason, by the way, not that it matters. But the reason I didn't take the $300,000 a hand is because I'd have to buy in for $5 million. So for an exposure and a liability of an extra $2 million,

I only got the possible upside of $50,000. So how did I do that? I'd save $2 million and a loss of $50,000. Right. Makes way more sense. Okay, so you're going in now as a business. No more fucking around, no more having fun. Yeah.

Became work. Yeah. What was that typical week looked like? You worked every day? No. We also didn't work every week. We would, it came out, I was making,

it came out to a net profit of $1 million. a week for a long time. But it wasn't so cut and dry. It was like we would live our lives. We were young guys with too much money living in L.A., right? And we just live our lives. We'd say to ourselves, time to go to work. We would, it gradually adjusted, but towards the end of it, we'd sneak ourselves into Vegas

in cars we've never been in that aren't registered or rented or owned by us. And we'd go in there. And we'd, so I'd get a, I used to store all these cashier's checks, right? because they're good, some of them are good forever. And if they're not good, when you have that kind of relationship with the bank, you just bring the check. Honestly, I just text my banker, to be honest. But I text my banker. I go, yo, I got this $3 million check.

It's nine months old. Can you renew it? They go, yeah, no problem. We'll print you a new one. Right. So I used to just store these checks. I didn't, I wasn't even sure. I'm not to this day sure that the banks aren't in communication with the casino to let them know.

This guy just came in, took a check for $3 million. And we believe he's on the way to you. Because that would give them enough time to set something up for me. to lose. Wow. So I would keep storage of all these, usually they're one, two or three million dollar checks. By the way, is that how a casino, when you make that much money, is that how a casino pays you out? It's not three million in cash. So, so this is the law, because they got in trouble for this not too long ago. They were acting as stand in banks, which the government didn't want. So what they do now is the law says, however you buy in, whatever form, cash, check or wire,

that's how they have to cash you out up to that amount. After that amount, you can make any request you want. So for me, I would come with a $3 million check. I would say, keep this on hold. What that means is do not deposit it, confirm the funds with the bank, and just keep it in the draw on the desk, literally. And they'll keep it like 72 hours or something. You can ask them and keep it as long as you want, basically, but they basically just customarily hold it. I think it's like up to three days. They call the bank, confirm it's legit, all that, and they put it in the draw right there at the high limit cage. It's not even like locked up. It's just like there. Right. when you gamble, let's say I came up

with a $3 million check. When I cash out $6 million, the first $3 million, they take the chips and they hand me back the check. They go, here's your check. Go to your bank and refund. I don't care. What you do with the check? We don't want it anymore. How do you want your other $3 million? My profit side. For me, I take cash. I've done the wire thing.

Super weird, super sketchy. There's like no paper trail. They're like, all right, you should have it next week. And I'm like, whoa. I'm like, what? I'm like, what? You're going to give me a document? They go, what do you want a receipt? I'm like, yeah, something. Yes, motherfucker.

Yeah. For three million bucks. Yeah. So what happens with the wire is you just go to the cage and see you just some girl, right? Like who's never touched three million in a life type, you know, whatever. It's a girl works like a cashier. She takes all the information, puts in the computer and goes, okay, thank you. Goodbye, right?

You know, whoa, easy, young lady. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I go, so what's happening now? She goes, well, I put it in the in the computer. So it's going to go to the financial department. I forget that whatever they're called. on whatever they're counting.

Yeah, but there's even one before that, bro. It has to go to like three departments before it even makes it to the guy that actually hits the send wire button. So it's got to go through all of this bureaucracy. All of it. And you don't know where your funds in that process are. You're just praying the money shows up. And then if you take a check, they can also cancel a check and they have a little while to do this. So for me, give me to cash.

In case you have any discrepancies with how I won the money or you think I'm cheating or whatever it is, that's fine. You want to take me to court? No problem. Yeah. Pay me now. We can fight it out in court later. By the way, I'm going to use the cash. You gave me to pay for the court proceedings.

And that's a Nevada law. They have to pay you out like you just said. They have to give you the money. Yeah. So they have to give you how you want it. Well, only the profit. They have to give you what you bought in for and the same form you bought it. And clearly you know by now these casinos are, it's in their mandate to cheat.

So they're not above screwing you over in like a wire. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So therefore you take cash. The last time I was allowed to play in Vegas, with no bar is when I won. It happened to be my biggest single session win. I won $11,526,000. In one session. Playing how many games and which games?

Is Bakrach? Exclusively Baccarat? How many hands is that? Well, I'm not sure. 250. What we did was we threw... 250 divided by 11 million or whatever. Yeah, whatever it is. Plus commission. There's 5% commission on roughly 55% of the hands.

Oh, interesting. And that's also a rule? That's a rule. Yeah. Well, you could also play commission. free. I don't, but there is a commission free option. It actually costs you more money in the long run. It's just another version. Simply put, I play the version where on roughly 55% of my hands, I'm paying 5% back to the house. Okay. So you got 11 million. You take 11 million in cash? No. So this was the very last time they let me play with no bar. It's like free for all. And you won't say what casino this is that you wanted out? It was two casinos. Tell us. Tell us. Tell us. No, I'll tell you off the air.

You know, give me, give us the exclusive. Actually, you know what? I posted the checks before. Okay, so I won 8.5 million from MGM Grand and the balance, which was like 2.64, something like that, was from Palazzo. Let's fucking go.

I assume you're not let in there anymore. Definitely not. Not even close. Yeah, I can't even go on the sidewalk. I forgot, if you look, I did post a photo of these checks. So in the checks, if you know what you're looking at, you can see one of them says the Sands, which is the Palazzo and Venetian.

And the other says MGM Grand, which is MGM Grand. So if you look at the checks, I did post the out. So you're like a hero of the degenerate gambler community. You like beat Vegas. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so I'm sorry to cut you off. No, go ahead, go ahead. 11 million.

Yeah, tell us how you move that. And do you have bodyguards at this point? Yeah. Okay. There's so much to the story. Like, we can do a whole pod just on the story. So I'll give you the short version. they had fought me tooth and nail like this whole way right so we're me and my guys are feeling

really cornered we're like we don't think we're gonna metaphorically make it out alive right we we weren't actually in fear of our lives plus we faced dead like when we were like living recklessly like we're not actually fearful of that right but metaphorically we didn't know if we're going to make it out of life we didn't know we're going to win make it out with our money like we didn't know if we had an escape plan here so we're not we're not actually we're not actually we did was we threw a seven day long party. And it was one of the most outrageous parties that I or any of the people they had ever seen. We had a thousand people in attendance at any given time, 24 hours a day for seven days. We're at in Vegas in the MGM, uh, in the mansions in the villa.

So I had the villa, it was 10,000 square feet. We had two indoor pools. It was the whole top floor of the mansions. So at the place that you took all that money from you were also partying at. Yeah. So, but we did it on purpose. We wanted to serve as a distraction. So many celebrities were there, all the tabloids, all the media outlets. It was a spectacle. And this is just when I started social media. So if you look back and you do a little dig in, you'll uncover all of the media that ended coming from this party. So what happened was we had all these like famous people and non-famous people and whatever, just people, right? Doing crazy things. Lighting fires, orgies, blah, blah, blah.

And what's happening is in my head, again, I don't know how many people there really are. In my head, they are assigning 10 executives to me at all times when they're alerted I'm on property. I believe there's 10 people upstairs watching me 24 hours a day. So I said if there's 10 people, probably any one of them is smarter than me one on one. And now I have to do with 10 of them. They'll outsmart me every time. What can I do to lighten the load? How do I fight against less of them?

So we threw this party and we gave everybody the tools to make the biggest problems possible. So all they know is There's a thousand people in Mickey's Villa There's a fire We need to call the fire department Who lit the fire? The guy who just won the world championship In UFC

What do we do now? So out of these 10 executives Five of them now have to deal With this celebrity Who literally just Came close to burning down a casino In my party So now I'm only fighting

Half the amount of people I'm supposed to fight And me and my guy Would sneak out the back We'd hit the tables before those five can even catch up. So you're working. Yeah, you're working this whole time.

The whole time. Wow. Okay, I want to take a step back for a second. How long into, you basically started to take gambling seriously. How long before the casinos turned on you? In that second year, roughly at month 18. So the relevant part of my gambling career took place over three years.

The first year was where I told you we were buying information. for 30 to 50 and doubling up, but we didn't care about winning. It was nice that we were winning. We didn't care. The second year is where we started to take a serious where we added a zero to everything. And the third year is we are bar none going to work and we'll do everything we can to take these casinos down. Roughly at the 18 month mark in the three years, it was halfway through our second year where we're doing the six figures entering seven figures. That's where it starts to become a problem.

Okay. Tell us about how you noticed them starting to fuck with you. Well, they started to do things like they took. my jet away. And I'm like, what did you take the jet away for? They go, well, you're not bringing in enough money. And I go, what? I go, I'm the biggest better in the city for the last six months. And they go, well, it's not enough. I know, that's suspicious. So they would send a jet to L.A. to pick you up and fly you in? They gave me a jet to go anywhere, do anything. I used to take it to go check my mail. I used to go, one time I threw a party and I just took it party and I had a hat in L.A. at my

crib that I wanted to wear to the party. I just took the jet to L.A. I told when I landed, I told the pilot. I said, don't leave the plane. I'll be right back. My driver was on the tarmac in LA at Van Nuys, drove me straight to my crib. I ran inside, grabbed a hat, driver took me back to the tarmac. I went to the party. I just used it like it was a new. I used PJs like it was an Uber. They took that away. And I go, that's weird. I'm the biggest better, I'm the biggest depositor in the city for six months. Yeah. And there's so many jets these casinos own, like, why would you take mine away? It's a weird thing to take away from me. Then they'd be like, I'd say, hey, I want to go to this. This.

This villa, they go, can't give it to you. Who are you going to give it to? Somebody else. I go, well, there's nobody more valuable to you in pure numbers than me. Why would you give that premium villa to somebody else? Because I'm like, that's suspicious. So we started to see this. Then they started to do weird little things like harass me or bust my balls.

I had a parking space at the front door of every casino on the strip. So I would just self-park and keep my keys. They started busting my balls with that and cornering me. and all it just you could just see. Yeah, it was like little harassments, little things that were taking away. Like microaggressions. So why, I got a question, you know, this is a private business.

Couldn't they just ban you outright for any reason? They could and eventually they did. I believe that they were very torn. I think out of the 10 executives watching me, five said he's cheating in a liability, get him out. And the other five said, we can't catch him cheating. We haven't figured out any unethical play he does. He's just so lucky.

Keep him a little longer. He's got to give it all back. So I think it was this fight. So they go, where's the common ground? And they go, what if we just shake the pot a lot? And someone goes,

well, how are you going to shake his pot? They go, let's take away everything he likes. Let's start with that. So they took away all the stuff I like. And it did shake my pot. I got me pissed off. I was like,

you're inconveniencing me a lot now. And they go, okay, he's still winning, though. What else can we do? And that's when it started getting crazy. They go, jam his Wi-Fi. Make sure he has no cell service.

Now I can't use myself. No cell phones work in any of my villas or my rooms. Wow. Now they have that capability. That's like the NSA or something. That's like high level government. It's actually not that hard. So I had spoke about it years ago in an interview.

And all these people said, no, it's impossible. You can't jam. First of all, I'm not a technician. Let me just be super clear, right? So I don't know all the correct terms. What I know is that if there's two rooms that share an adjoining wall, one's in my name, one's in your name. The one in your name, you have flawless.

cell phone capabilities. As soon as you go four feet into my room, your phone is now a paperweight. And I put it to the test. And then I recorded a video doing it. When I recorded this video, it got like, I don't know, like 10 million, I recorded it at night,

went to sleep, woke up in the morning, like 10 million views. That casino knocked on my door and told me to leave. And I recorded that too. Wow. Yeah. Wow. So.

Oh, but, but what I'm sorry, what I meant to say is people had contacted me because they also locked me to an elevator one time. And I posted the video from the elevator. And I'm like, I'm locked in here. You know,

I was, I was with Odell Beko and we were gambling. I went, we both separated to go to our room for the night. When I got in the elevator,

I got locked in there. And it was like a whole thing. Both an elevator, I don't know, builder, technician, I don't know what, and many people that are, I don't know what the term is,

familiar with how, they explain it to me that it's like a net, sort of like this light is, right? A net. What they can do is they can shut off certain parts of the net.

So you can't get the cell to go through that area. Right. So all these people had came forward and said, yeah, I can block that. If I was in the tech room or whatever at the casino, he goes, it's a pretty simple task. I personally can just block it. And same with the elevator guy. So the elevator guy took my elevator video.

He stitched it on TikTok with him in an elevator room pulling the levers to lock somebody in an elevator. That's believable. That's totally believable. Well, not the comments. Well, fuck them. Yeah. At what point do now you're pulling. posted on Instagram, you're becoming an influencer.

At what point do the celebrities come in and start giving you their money to gamble with? Like immediately. As soon as I started social media, it immediately went viral. Who were the people, the first people that approached you? I think Drake was the very first person. I think Drake had discovered me, like a week later, was a little baby. And then after that. And they just DM you?

Yeah. What does a DM from Drake look like? Can I see it? No, I don't want to do that because. I think that he's very private and I think that he prefers people not to like use his name for clicks and stuff like that. Was that wild though seeing like, wow, I got...

This is how it started. I was homeless in Harlem and now I got Drake and my DMs want me to gamble his money. Can you say the amounts of money? Can you say that? I can't put a name to the amount, but some have given me $3 million. Some have gone as low as like $10K.

But in the beginning, I was just some guys. bro. And I'm still some guy. You know what I mean? But back then, I was some guy. I had like 10,000 followers on Instagram and no other social media. And when anybody who I liked or like listen to their music or watch them in movies would DM me, every time I was like, whoa, that's cool. I'd like show my buddy. I'm like, yo, look, you know?

And I'm like, hey, what's up, bro? Like, what can I help you with? You know, whatever I said. And they'd be like, we should go gamble. For me, I was just so taken back that they even knew who I was. And then went all the way as to ask me to hang out. You know, like there's so many things that have to happen for that to be the result. Yeah.

That also like just a taken back that I was like, whatever you want to do, I'm just shocked that you want to hang out or like know who I am or whatever. You want to gamble a shirt, let's gamble, you know? Yeah. And so we started doing that. Pretty quickly, I became this like figure in that culture. Yeah. You know, that now, like, you know, I just came right now from Rod Wave and Tusi. You know what I mean?

Like nobody asked me to gamble. They just, there's my boys. Yeah. Just being around and being in the scene. They got to know me not as a gamble, but as a human being. And they're like, bro, you're dope. They're like, we like the same things, you know. So people were essentially just flying into Vegas just to hang out and

gamble with you. Yeah. So it wasn't like, hey, I'm using this as like an investment, you know, triple my money. Would you have anybody that did that? Yeah, some people. But those are the people that don't understand gambling because I can lose and I do lose. I have losses, you know. And so the people that are like, let me just wire you this money, send me back,

send it back when you triple it, you know, in two hours. In the beginning, I was willing to engage because, again, I was just so, like, surprised. They knew who I was. And I was so, like, almost starstruck, you know? And I was just like, yeah, no problem. And then I saw, like, they don't understand what's happening. So once sort of the star struckness, like, wore off. And I was just, like, a regular friend with these guys.

It became really easy for me to tell people no. Yeah. every day, many, you know, very famous people are like, hey, can we do this? And I'm like, you know what? Nah. Yeah. You know, if you want to like meet me, like, I'm going to this show.

If you want to come to the show and hang out, we can chat. Yeah. And if we become friends, become friends. But like, nah, like I'm not a circus monkey. You're not going to, you're not going to be like, here's some money. Like, I'm like, bro, I'm good. You got your own money. Yeah.

You got your own thing going on. Yeah. So once, once I felt that I was welcomed in that culture and that community or became like a little bit of a celebrity in my own right? I didn't need that or the star-struckness wore off. I was just chilling. And I'm chilling. Do you remember a big loss that you took for with somebody else's money that you felt bad about?

Yeah. Yeah. There was one in particular. That's what happened, bro. I can't say who it is on the air. I can tell you after. So a friend of my- Maybe on the Patreon?

Maybe. Perhaps. Okay. So I have a friend. He's a rapper, very famous. And we were friends for like a while, right? And never once talked about gambling. we were just friends like we were always at the same parties the same club the same show we were just there and we were anytime we're there we just link sometimes we'd go out just me and him whatever finally says to me one day he goes hey um you want to gamble and i go sure i got this game in l a lae like we can i can i give you 50k right and now relative 50k is not a lot right but this was like a particular loss i felt bad about so he's like okay i was like yeah i don't whatever you i was like i don't care bro i'm just i'm just hanging out i'm gonna go i'm playing cards whether you're there right now right and i'm gonna go i'm playing cards whether you're there right but

I don't care, right? I'll come and I'll throw 50K in the mix. I'm like, all right, cool. He shows up, it's quite an environment. A lot of women and party favors and other like types of famous people and it's a cool environment. And I didn't know, but he'd never been.

I didn't know. We never talked about it. I didn't even realize, you know, I always give a disclaimer like, hey, we can lose, just know that, you know? And everybody says the same thing. They go, yep, I get it. I go, all, cool.

I didn't realize that he didn't realize what I was really saying. Like, he heard the words, but didn't listen to the words, right? And it's because he's never gambled a day in his life. He's never placed a single wager. And I didn't know that. So I'm giving him the disclaimer just like, hey, bro,

I'll do it. You want to bring 50. I don't care. You could bring none and just hang out. But he said, no, no, no, I want to make money. I go, okay, well, hold on. Hopefully we make money. But just know, like, we are gambling.

There's a chance we lose. He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going to bring 50. We're going to make money. We're going to party. And I'm thinking like, oh, he's just like high, All right, whatever, bro. Come on. So he comes.

We sit down. I play one hand. We went like 17K, this pot. We were playing Omaha, right? When 17K, I'm breaking the chips. He's sitting next to me. I go, yo, we just won that one with 17K. He starts like, chilling.

He's like, get me a shot. He goes, hey, one of you horrors. Get over here. I rub my back, you know? And he's like, chilling, whatever. Like 30 seconds goes by and I lose a hand. And he goes, what happened? And I go, oh, we lost that one.

We lost like 30K on that. He goes, oh, I thought we won 17. And I go, yeah, the last hand. we did, you know, what do you mean? You thought it was over, but because he's never placed a wager before, he didn't understand what was happening. He ended up losing the 50K, right? And he was so distraught.

Now, a guy's got tons of money, right? So it's not the money. And this is something a non-gambler will never understand. The emotional hangover of taking a loss of any size. So for a week, he was calling me every day like, hey, bro, like, I don't feel good. He's like, I feel sick. How do I get over this feeling? And that, during that week is when I realized he's not.

never place a wage. And finally I asked him, I go, bro, if you do gamble? And he goes, no, I don't know how. I go, man, like, this is not, this is not the world for you. Right. Did you see any real degenerate gamblers,

like addicted, really bad, like, like a disease, like being addicted to drugs? A famous people or anybody. I've seen both, honestly. Yeah, I've seen both. I've seen both. Yeah.

I've seen both. Wow. But I'm a honestly, do you have to cut people off? Did you have to tell celebrities like, hey, you're not in a good way. I don't want to do. Because I don't need their money.

I don't need whatever we're about to win maybe. That doesn't even affect my bottom line. So for me it's more important like their well-being than anything. And I'm a friend before I am like a gambler, you know? And I discourage gambling. I have this foundation where at no cost at all, anybody who struggles with gambling addiction, drug addiction, or mental

health, they just have to reach out to my foundation and we find them treatment. Totally for free. So like I'm a big advocate for not gambling. Honestly, it ruins endless lives and saves only couple. Like hardly any. And enriches a bunch of people that are cheating you in Vegas. Scumbags, yeah. Okay. And tell us a really quick about the games you add in L.A. I think you still currently have them. Well, have is not the right way.

We snitch on this podcast. Sorry. Play in is a better way to phrase it. Okay. Tell us about these games. Yeah. Yeah, they're cool. There's all different ranges. Like private? All private, private location. No like plus one, no cameras. All. No cameras. Everybody, well, all the girls sign an NDA and have to hand their phone into the locker before they walk in. The men are all high-profile men. There's very little female players in this network. There are some.

They're also high, like, ranking women as well. A lot of them are politicians or pretty famously known CEOs or founders or actors and singers and producers and, you know, people that prefer discretion and privacy. and I don't disagree. Do you run them or do you just participate in them? I don't know anybody who runs them. Got it. Okay. Can you elaborate on that?

I'll ask you again. Do you own them or do you just, if one were to own them? Because clearly somebody owns them, right? Like in this world exists in the world of Mexican cartels in L.A. Some guy, El Mago, who was connected with the Sina Loa cartel, he was just murdered outside of one. They're called casitas.

And there are private parties where rich business owners, drug dealers, money launderers go to have whores, gamble, drinking party. That's a slightly different world. So the casitas is more like low-level stuff, like street gangs, cartel, stuff like that. Yeah. The ones that I'll use a term familiar with are a much different world. Very clean, upscale, there's no violence, there's no crime, there's no drug. There's no drug dealers. There's no, yeah.

I just want to know are they, I assume these are illegal. Who owns them in general? I just want to know the structure of it. It's actually not illegal. So playing poker is not illegal. What's illegal is running an unlicensed casino. So there is a very, very clear line of when you're playing poker and when you're running an unlicensed casino. So as long as you're not running an unlicensed casino, there's no crime being committed.

So these games that you attend. or go to, they're licensed? No, but they're not a casino. Okay, so you can... Essentially, it's guys playing poker. It's really just... It could just be friends. Friends in a house playing poker is not illegal.

That's not illegal. Gotcha. Okay, cool. Great. Let's get back to how it all kind of ends with you in Vegas. So they're fucking with you. You know, harassment, cutting off your Wi-Fi, trapping you in elevators.

What year... How did you... eventually get banned? It happened gradually over the last 18 months of that three-year span. It started gradually. Some were just like, don't come back. Some that I walked in for the first time ever,

when I walked in, they would greet me with security and say, your action's too strong, please leave. Wow. Some would do crazy things. Some would make false claims. I had one that told me I touched too many forks in the high limit buffet.

There's like a lounge, like a buffet kind of. and all the forks are like out, you know? And I swear to God, I bring in cash. And this particular casino has two high limit rooms. There's one on the first floor, which is standard. Then they have like a super high limit room. Very private.

It's on the second floor. And it's got its own name. It's got its own entrance. It's a whole thing. And that's where I like to play in this particular building. It's quiet and there's nobody in there. It's very private. I like that.

I don't like distractions. I don't like any of that. So I bring in cash. And where the cage is is right next to this lounge. where the players can just like, there's like just a food option, snacks, buffet style, whatever. And so I put my cash at the cage.

I know it's going to take them a lot of count it. I'm watching. I'm going to hop over to the lounge while you count. So I'm in the lounge and I'm eating, getting food. I just peek my head around the corner. I see they're still counting. No problem.

I get greeted with like a group of security. They go, are you Mickey Mace? I go, can I help you with something? They go, are you him? I go, what's the problem? They go, you touch, swear. They go, you touch too many forks. I go,

what's the limit of forks I can touch? And they go, just to be clear, are you Mickey Mason? I go, yeah, I am. Dude rips out this freaking index card. Like, it's the biggest FBI bust of the century. And he's standing in a power stance, reading me my Miranda rights for the casino.

Yeah. It's a trespassing. Like, it's a thing they always read. And the guy's, there's like 10 security guards there. And this guy in a power stance, just barking at this index, barking off at this index card. And I'm like, what's the problem, fellas?

You know? Yeah. And the problem is you touch too many forks. We need to escort you to your car and follow you off property. Are you guys being serious? And they go, yeah, if you have a problem with it, call your host and you guys handle it on your own. And how much cash did you brought in? It was like 300K, which wasn't even a lot.

I was just going for, I was just going for, I was just going for some fun. So they banned me for touching too many torques, too many forks in the, in the, So they don't give you an official like your 86 from here? They give me those. I never accept them. I don't think it works this way, but I'm assuming if I never accept it, then I can claim, like, negligence or even ignorance. Like, I don't have a piece of paper. I never touched a piece of paper, but they always try to give it to you. It's like one of those three pieces where it's like the pink, the yellow, and the white, the ink goes through all three. They always try to rip one off and give you one. But I'd never take one.

Are you in litigation with any of these places? Okay. Are there any places? I wasn't cheating. If I was cheating, your first offense for cheating in the state of Nevada is five years. in state prison. Holy shit. Your first offense. Wow. I've never been indicted.

I've never been in prison for cheating. It's never, I didn't cheat, never cheated. So are there any places that you can still go to? There's two buildings in Las Vegas I'm allowed in. I think one of them doesn't really want me there. So I try not to stir their feathers. I'm whether for like dinner or like a show. And there's another one that doesn't really care.

And I think the reason they don't care is because for my own strategy, and I don't need to, I don't play that big. There's only one spot. So if something ever goes wrong there, I don't have a backup plan. Like I don't have an insurance policy, like an insurance plan, you know? So I don't play that big there because I don't feel cornered.

And also I don't have to. It's really stressful. So knowing that it's my only spot that every time I have to bring, every time a celebrity calls me and asks me to bring them to Vegas, this is the spot we go. So I think they reap the benefits of the biggest names in the world walking into their doors. It's good promotion for them.

Yeah, but they only walk into that set of doors because I'm the one that brought them there, you know? So I think that, and this is not confirmed. Like, I don't know. casino doesn't pay me. I wish they did, but they did. They should. So how often are you out there, you know, since you can only go to one spot effectively?

Well, I still have like a life in Vegas. I own a house there. I still have like a life there. So I go, yeah. What's the most interesting cat celebrity that you ever gamble with? I don't know. I played with a lot of people. I played with a lot of people.

Anybody that would surprise us? Yeah, he's a mayor of a pretty big California city. Really? Yeah, I can't say who. But yeah. Like all the time. Like all the time. Wow.

all the time. You're at the table with power, with political power. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Tell them to fucking clean San Francisco up, please. Yeah. I never want to cross that line. You know, I never want to try to influence any political stance on anything. That's not, I'm not a politician. I'm not here for. I don't have a motive. I don't have a motive. I don't want to get in murky waters. Have you been approached by, you know, drug dealers, trappers? Yeah.

Criminals that want you to launder for them? Yeah, all the time. But I always say no. Plus, plus, if I do lose for one of those guys, the repercussions is way more severe than losing to an NFL player, NBA player. Those guys are so rich, they're like, ah, I know my deal. Yeah. But to lose to like, you know, like gang bangers and stuff like that, like there could be repercussions. I don't need that. I also don't need the implications that come with trying to clean their money. I don't have to clean anybody's money. Yeah. I don't have to do that. Right. So why would I walk into that? Yeah. For what? What do you think in your three years

of playing there? What do you think your win to loss percentage was? It's a little bit of a trick question. So, Overall, I'm 100% a winner because you could only be a winner or a loser, right? But more realistically, while it was happening, I won in real life 80% of my sessions. 80% of your hands? My sessions. Okay, sessions, sessions. Yeah.

Yeah. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Have you been, what's so, what now? What now? You try to sell the algorithm? No. I set the bar so high.

I'm hoping no one tries to buy it. there's a few inquiries. There's a few people in communication, but I set that bar blindly from day one because there's a few reasons. First, I do not want to encourage gambling. Even if somebody pays me the $50 million, that's not a casino and it's like a person

who wants the sauce, right? Even if they pay me $50 million, if they do any, anything, the smallest thing, not exactly how I'm telling them to do it, which is going to happen. I can't imagine a guy's going to remember like every verbiage, noun, location, time,

Like every deal is so extensive that somebody's going to make a mistake somewhere along the way, which means they paid me $50 million. And they made a mistake on the algorithm, which is just what I just call it the algorithm, right? Which means they're still losing at the tables. And I don't want to feel responsible for that. Who knows what not just legal repercussions I can have, but emotional. Like I don't need to take that kind of weight on. There's no need for that.

And the last thing is, if it gets out exactly what I've done, the casinos will change it. And that $50 million somebody just gave me, went to $1.000. waste. Yeah, right. Well, you imagine they must change it all the time, though. I think what they're doing is they're changing it. Instead of having an ace in their sleeve, they put a king. After they put a king, and they think that they've been outed, they put a queen. If they put a queen, they put a jack. Then they go back to an ace of spade. Instead of an ace of heart this time.

So I think they're still, I mean, I know they are. They're still running the same racket with slight variations, but they're also solvable. Once you understand how to solve it, what the algorithm is, it's really easy to solve it no matter what cards. So maybe that's what you sell. Yeah. And you only sell it to the right person. somebody who can handle that kind of power.

Yeah. What's your next, what do you want to do? I know you're acting now. You're in movies. You know, amateur, adult star. You know, you finally made it come true. My man, look at that, dude. What do you see the next 10 years looking like?

I think I'm going to be doing more and more acting. I mean, I got so many movie roles and TV roles so quickly, and I'm not an actor. Just to be like super clear. I'm not an actor. I don't have training. like whatever, that without trying, without auditioning, without anything,

I got casted as so many things. And a lot of these, a lot of them knew that I was willing to do it or wanted to like get into the movies and stuff. And some of them don't know that. Some of them was just like, people just hitting me up, like you have the right look

or the right charisma, whatever it is, you'd be a good fit for what we're filming. So that can all happen so quickly in such a high level so fast that I'm just thinking like, if I just try, who knows,

where the acting thing will get. And the Hollywood thing has been fun. Like being in movies and TV shows has been really fun so far. Yeah. Yeah, when you don't need it for money, acting in Hollywood, it's a fun life, you know?

And I think you've got a good financial basis now. Yeah. So are your parents proud of you? The people back home, I mean, he's the Jersey kid made good, you know? Yeah. Before we get into the rest of this, can I use a restroom again?

No, we're gonna wrap. Okay. I think we got, you know, I think we had like an amazing podcast We're going to talk a little bit on the Patreon. But yeah, tell them where they can find you, you know. If there's anything you want to plug, let's do it. Sure. Oh, the Innocence Project.

Yes, of course. Yeah. As you know, I would only take this interview. I don't take appearance fees, but I do request that you donate to the Innocence Project. Absolutely. You told me you already do. You're involved in it. Yes. That's amazing. Every year I give money of the Innocence Project.

That, of course, is, you know, a foundation for a nonprofit for lawyers who are working on getting innocent people out of prison who have been wrongly convicted. Yeah. It's my favorite charity. Me too. Literally the only charity that I give to. Sure. So I absolutely will be donating again in good faith for having you on.

And I encourage everybody to go do that. I don't know if I told you, but when I pass my will has signed the majority of my estate over to the Innocence Project. Amazing. Yeah. Amazing. Hopefully that's not for a long time. I hope it's not for a long time.

But when it does happen, the majority of my estate does get donated to them. And you've lived a full life when it does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The foundation I started

We don't accept donations I don't need anybody's money I don't want anybody's money I just want to help people at no cost If they struggle with mental health Drug addiction or gambling addiction It's called shaken hearts They can just find it on Instagram

Just go to at shaken hearts Send a DM and the rest You'll figure it out Like just send a DM to shaken hearts on Instagram And they'll get with somebody Great They can find me on all social media platforms At Dirty Gothboy

And boy is spelled B-O-I Oh yeah And I heard too, you gamble with your fans' money? No, actually it's the opposite. I fund with my money all my fans gambling. That's something new I've been doing. We do it for a couple months. And it is going exquisitely well.

Exceptionally, exceptionally so. So I'm banned and I can't gamble, but my fans aren't banned. Right. Right. And because I have such a high converting win rate, most of my fans don't. They're like regular gamblers, losers. I found a way to fund all their gambling. And on the losses, I pay 100%

and on the wins, we split the profit. Okay, so you're almost like your own gambling site. You're like prize picks or something like that. But I don't sell anything. Like all those guys sell stuff. I do the opposite. I don't sell. I'm giving my money to the fans.

I'm literally funding all their gambling. Everything. Wow. Yeah, everything. How do you morally as a guy that doesn't want people to gamble? How do you sleep at night? Well, they're, I sleep great. I sleep on an orange sleep.

A bunch of money. I sleep on an orange sleep mattress with four pillows. I just got new sheets actually. They're great. Congrats. Yeah. Doesn't matter how much money I get. I don't change my sheets, but once a year.

I'm a dude. No. So people are going to gamble anyway. Despite my super clear disclaimer, don't gamble. But they're going to gamble anyway. And the ones that do, at least let me help them make money instead of just giving these people, the casinos money.

So I'm funding all of it. So even if they're like a degenerate gambler or whatever it is, it's my money as long as it's done my way, which is the way it's set up. I can tell you off the air, not on the air, exactly how it's being done. But everything's done exactly the way I want it to be done,

100% on my dime. So if there are any losses, which there are sometimes, 100% of it I'm financially responsible for. And on the winning side, I split it with my fans. Wow. Okay, so you, if I came to you and say,

hey, I got 50 bands. I want to spend. I would say, no, I don't want your money. But I'll give you 50 bands and you gamble the way I'm telling you to gamble. And how would you tell me a lay person? Like a guy who goes to Vegas twice a year. I play the slots and some blackjack. Like, I'm real novice. What would you tell me to do?

Well, I can't give that sauce exactly here. But the way in my, in the, if you're talking about the business that I'm doing, the way we're doing it is it happens over time. we have to build a relationship it's too much at once plus I can't even if let's say 50,000 was how much I was willing to give you let's pretend the truth is if you're just a stranger

and you contact me through my link I'll give you the link if you post it in this thing so all these people can sign up to you can also by the way I can't just give every stranger $50,000 and be like do what I tell you and then give me back to it's never going to happen everyone's going to run away at my money so we start really small

and we have to build the relationship and as we're building the relationship you learn more and then you have bigger betting limits and bigger budget and bigger money to play with. So would you actually teach me? Is there anything involved? Sort of. You actually have to do very little.

You just have to follow instructions. There's almost no thinking for you to do. Okay. I'm in, bro. Yeah, yeah. It's literally what it sounds like, yeah. So it's essentially, it's almost like, have you heard of those sites?

They're like Wall Street sharks. You know, they're like four X currency traders. You know, they're hedge fund managers. It's essentially, and they basically, say, do what I do. You know, bet on this, right? Yeah, but it's with my money. I don't, I don't want a dollar. I do not accept a dollar from anybody. Right. I'm giving you the money to gamble. You have to do it the way I say. Right. You do it exactly. So you're essentially, you got people working for you. Oh, more than just a few. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. How many people do you have? We're a global network.

There's a lot of us. There's a lot of us. So this is a huge business. It's an operation. Okay. Okay. So that's what you're doing now. Yeah. When I asked you, what are you doing now and you got cheeky, this is what you're doing now. Yeah, this is brilliant. Is there anybody else doing this? Yeah,

yeah, there's other groups doing it. The thing is that anyone that's doing it has not nearly the social media presence I have. So they can't even come close to reaching who I'm reaching. But the thing is, everyone else that's doing it is part of this one essentially larger group. Right?

We are like one large group. And then we all take our client base, like whoever we have. have that's willing to gamble with my money, right? Or anybody's money, because a lot of us that do it, right? We have the same, essentially the same information. There's like a global group of gambling sharps, right? And we all communicate, we all sell and buy information from each other. We all share information. There's so much to it, like, all the way down to if somebody found a casino in the Czech Republic that has one roulette wheel, that the weight is off balance, so the ball will

always land within three numbers. It'll go into the group chat. It's not as clean as a group chat, but imagine the communication was going to a theoretical group chat. Now, everybody knows that for a limited amount of time, they will always win that one roulette wheel and that one casino in the Czech Republic until they adjust the weight. So you guys are like a cartel. I wouldn't use that term. I would say we're a group.

So could I get in for a thousand bucks? You can't get into the network communication with me? I want to work with you. I don't want any of your money. I just need you. I'm saying I want to. bet a thousand bucks. Yeah, that's fine. But it's going to be my thousand dollars. It's going to be my way. So I'm a retard with numbers. Yeah, that's fine. I just want to play roulette. That's fine.

I can literally, I can say red or black. That's fine. I can do that. But you're not going to. You're going to just bet on whatever you were instructed to bet on. Wow. Yeah, I'm going to give you the brain guy. I'm going to give you the link posted here so everyone can do it, whatever. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's the most basic information. I just want to know, um, like, name, are you over 21? what zip code do you live in and what level of gambling skill you have and I only ask that for sports and for table games and poker.

That's it. There's no detail. I don't need your social. I don't need your address. I don't need your mother's maiden name. I don't really care. I just need bodies. Yeah.

Right? I'm going to give the bodies the money and the instruction and then we split the profit. If there's loss, it was my money so you don't even care. Wow. How long have you been doing this for?

I think we've been live for, I want to say two months, maybe two months in a week. And this is all legal. Yeah. This is all above board. You guys are registered. I got so many lawyers, bro. I wouldn't. I couldn't even look at something illegal with someone coming down my throat.

It's impossible. It's impossible. Yeah. How do you regulate that in terms of knowing that they're going to bet the way that you want them to bet? Okay. So at a casino, or any wagering company, right, they offer paperwork. And when I, it's not really me looking at it, the guys that work with me. When they look at it, they're real professionals.

They're guys that like work for the MBA. They work, you know, whatever. It doesn't matter. When they look at it at first glance, almost immediately we can see what's happening. You can tell there's so many very obvious factors that say he just lost this session. It happens versus he do. whatever the heck you wanted here. Right.

And there's a big difference. What actual problem we have. So the regulation is just a liability that I have, right? If they go and they do whatever they do and don't listen, it's my financial loss. Right. But we also cut that person, which would be stupid. Because if they just listened, they would be making money indefinitely. Right.

All they had to do is listen. And they don't have to, the less thinking they do the better. Let me do the thinking. Let me handle it, you know. Now, the other problem that we actually have, which this is, this one is more problematic in theory is even after they win, they could run off with all the profit, right? So let's pretend hypothetically,

I am, my budget with you is 10K, you win 40, now you got 50. You maybe are John Doe, a guy with no money, you know, barely paying rent, you got a baby on the way, you're going, I've never held 50K in my life. I go, I'm just going to run off with you, right? Now that's a realistic problem,

and that's more likely what happens. there's a very, very thorough vetting process to who we pick. It's not anybody and everybody. There's very specific qualifications in the person. And it starts with the, when they click the link, there's a form.

The form, believe it or not, has very pertinent information on it to me figuring out your character traits as a potential gambling partner, right? And I go, based on this, my team knows what to look for.

This guy is in the right direction or he already clicked the wrong thing. Don't even respond to him, right? If you click all the right buttons, then it goes to the next level. The next level is your communication, what do you call? Like transpondents with...

Corresponding? Corresponding, right? With one person. And that person will vet you out a little bit. And if you pass that test, and that's a big test to pass this guy. There's one guy in particular that's supervising the whole thing,

my right-hand man in life, and he's supervising it. And if that goes well, then you get on a call with the next up guy. And then he takes you back through a vetting process. And by the time you get through with it, we figure out, are you the guy?

At the end of all of it, in theory, you can still hurt me, right? You can still run off. Isn't there some kind of legal repercussion? Like, can't you put a lien on that? Yeah, of course I can, but we have so many people we're working with. Like, it's a huge, huge army of people we're doing this with.

That, yes, we do take legal pursuit, right? We do. But we also have to keep giving attention to the other people currently doing it and the new people. Right. So unless it's a bunch of money, it's probably not worth it. If it's, bro, if it's pennies, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll pursue you legally. If you want to take us to trial, you'll probably just go broke before the trial ends and there's no money to collect.

We'll probably just ring you dry on principal, knowing we're not going to make the money back. So you haven't had this problem yet. Not really. Because you have to think, bro, after week number one, you literally just saw with your own eyes how easy it was for you to make free money with no risk. Magic. Magic. That, to me, I'm incredulous. Like, I don't believe that.

Yeah. No, it's fine. Until it happens. Oh, I got you. Oh, no worry. Of course. No worries, buddy. I got you.

No problem. Matter of fact. I still plan on signing up as soon as this podcast is over. I hope you do. And I hope, as a matter of fact, if the timing works out so elegantly, I hope that you actually come on here without me and share your experience of doing this and included in the pod for better or for worse. I absolutely will.

Great. I'd be honored. Wow. Yeah. Okay. So we're going to put that link in the description. Yeah. That's what we're plugging here today.

Oh, yeah. We got to it. Oh, yeah. Okay. And just so you know, so the final thought on that was that once you see how literally like magic, how easy it was with your own eyes, just after the first week, you would have to be so thick, sculled to run off with that when you can just keep making money. So short-sighted, right.

And you're going to vet those kind of retards and move out of the pot anyways. Exactly, right. Exactly right. That's revolutionary. Yeah. Yes, sir. And any whales out there go, you got 50 mams to spend. You get 50 million.

DM him, you know? I'll take a piece of it. Give me a little commission. I'll tell you, if somebody comes from this, if somebody writes me a check for 50 million, and they said they come from here, I'll give you a commission, don't worry. There we go. That's it. That's it.

Mickey, what a great time I have with you. Thanks for coming on and check out the Patreon. Thank you guys. Thanks.