The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - An American Drug Mule Reveals The Horror Of Surviving 7 Years In BRUTAL South American Prison

Episode Date: April 20, 2024

Oscar Castro grew up in New Jersey to a loving family. When he dropped out of high school he immediately got a job and met someone that talked him into being a drug mule for a Colombian organization. As law enforcement began cracking down in Colombia the operations moved to Ecuador. One on pickup Oscar was arrested in Ecuador by Interpol and the DEA. From there he spent 7 years in some of the most horrific jails and prisons in Ecuador where death, drugs, and riots lasting for weeks were common occurrences. He's here to tell us all about his experiences and his journey to turning his life around and wanting to help others avoid going down the path he did as a young man. This Episode Is Brought To You By The Following Sponsors: PRIZEPICKS Visit https://www.prizepicks.com/ or download the app today and use code CONNECT for a first deposit match up to $100! MOOD Head over to https://hellomood.co/ and use code CONNECT20 at checkout for 20% off your first order PLUS a free 5 count pack of gummies! Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

He walks out to me and says, you know, would you consider traveling to Columbia, you know, to pick up some heroin? And I was interested. And then they would make the drugs in the form of the shoe, you know, so it would be all taped up, it would be in plastic, and they would put it in. And then they'd seal it back up. And that's it. And you put them on, you walk right through the airport with him. But I'm looking at it and just like, I get this, like, weird vibe. And when that thought comes in the play, it's just like, bam.

Everybody that was around me was Interpol, D. Dea, swarmed. You were about to witness a movie. Oscar Castro was a former drug mule who went to work for a Colombian drug trafficking organization when he was only 16 years old. He would fly with heroin hidden in the souls of his shoes from Columbia to New York City. In 2001, he got caught trying to smuggle heroin out of Ecuador and spent the next six and a half years in some of the most brutal prisons not only in Ecuador, but in all of South America.

His stories are so wild that they're almost unbelievable. I'm talking about prison riots that lasted for weeks, literally. Murders happened every day. They were commonplace. And of course, drug trafficking, high-level drug trafficking inside of prisons. This is such an unbelievable story. We couldn't fit it all into one episode. Go over to the Patreon.

Patreon.com slash The Connect Show for the epilogue to Oscar's story. And by the way, you can now get the fully uncensored main episodes on Patreon. as well. Without further ado, by far one of the best episodes we've ever done, Oscar Castro, right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. The third one was the worst one. All the jails United. It's like hunting season. You'd walk by a cell. You'd see a dead body. You'd walk by another cell. This one would be lit on fire. It was craziness. I just, you know, I just promised the Lord when I got out. Please help me get out. I'll never go back to any of this. You know, I just want to stay straight, narrow and just live a good life.

That's when I see the lights behind me start to flash. And I didn't even think. I just hit it. I was driving like my life depended on. Then I parked the car, popped out, closed the door, and I started running. And he pulls out a burner, shank. It's like six inches. And he passes it to me.

And he goes, here, that's yours. Don't ever leave the cell block without this. He was the reason I made it out of that place alive. Do you think you have more of a chance of dying inside of prison in Ecuador than you do on the streets? Yes. Wow. Yes. Is there any way to stay neutral?

Like, I'm just here. I got caught. I just want to do my time. Like, you can in America, for the most part. I mean, it's pretty difficult because over there, there's no classification. See, like, all my boys, everyone that I rolled with throughout the time I was in jail, most of them were murderers. Yeah. I mean, to keep it real, there were, everyone had a 25-year sentence.

Yeah. Even when I was in F-block and I was there twice, I was the only one there with a small sentence. Everyone is there. for F block, the maximum security is when you intend to escape or if you murder somebody or if you, I've seen guards get murdered because sometimes they're corrupt and they fuck around with the mob and they get hit. Whoever does the hit on that guy goes to F block. Yeah.

All right. Now F block no longer exists because they closed down. Ex Penal Garcia Moreno, which was the jail, they shut it down and they build new jails like the American style. Yeah. High security. High security. Everything's bars before.

Like my jail, we had a wall and a door. So the guard, you know, he can't see inside your jail. When you have sleepover, your wife's inside, you're fucking, you're in your boxers all day. Yeah. You're fucking all day. Yeah. You're drinking liquor. You're smoking weed.

You know, you're just chilling. Yeah, it's Coke everywhere. Coke everywhere. No one could come inside your cell. So when your wife is there for the fucking, you almost feel like you're in like a shitty motel. Exactly. It's fucking party time. You know what I mean?

So it's a shitty motel. You got your TV. You got music. Yeah. But then it's not just you. But it's another 2,000 prisoners with their wives, with their girlfriend. with their girlfriends. You know, and if I'm making liquor, it means I got liquor, you know, to sell.

People are doing parties. You know, you walk by a cell, the door's open. They got the speakers out in front of the door. People are dancing inside the cell. Some cells will gutted out. You know, if you're a mobster, you got money. Some cells, they could break down the walls in between one to the other, and they got a fucking suite.

Do some renovations on that bitch. You do renovations. You know what I mean? Like, that's how corrupted was in there. But you said there's no classification. Does that mean they put in the low security inmates with the worst? to the worst. They don't care. They don't care. You're in jail. They just open up that main gate and throw you in. Now, the main gate to the jail had three blocks. So B block was the biggest.

It had like 130 cells, I think. It was three floors. That's for like the lower like poverty people. This is for like the hitmen, you know, the cicarios, the fucking the thieves and the big time drug addicts. And those are cells that people don't buy. Those are like the government cells. Exactly. I mean, you've got to buy yourself. You know, but you can. You could buy a sell over there for $100. Yeah. You know, $100, $150, $200 because they're shit. Yeah.

And then you have C Block, which was for all of the foreign prisoners. Yeah. C Block is where like people from like Switzerland, you know, hardcore Colombian drug dealers. You know, you could walk in there and they'll show you a sell. Like, all right, this one's up for, you know, for sale. This one's $4,000. Why is it $4,000? It's got a modified queen-sized bed.

So that cement block that was your bed before. now was modified with a wooden extension, and they bought a queen-sized mattress and bought it in and put it right inside. Boom. If you want, and you had a lot of money back in the day, you could pay the director of the jail for you to live by yourself. So that top bunk, you take it out.

Boom, it's gone. So now you have like a, it's like a normal room. You know what I mean? And who's that money go to if you buy a cell? The director. The director of the prison. Straight to his pocket. Straight to his pocket.

Wow. You know, he'll give you the permits for you to bring in the construction crew. They'll come in. Construction crews inside. They're painting. They're breaking down brick walls. And the director pockets all that money. Yeah. So these cells, if you had enough money, these cells are pretty comfortable. Yes.

You're living in a nice apartment. Yeah, I told you, C Block, they have a queen-sized bed. It'll come with a microwave with a ceiling fan. It'll have, you know, 30-inch screen TV, DVD player, all mounted on the wall. You know, you can have a rug. You have marble floors. Whatever you want. You hook it up the way you want. What were

foreigners in there for? Like people from Switzerland. Yeah, drug trafficking. Like mulling? Like trying to get out of the airport with it? Yep. Pretty much. There was a lot of big drug, drug lords, like Colombians that were there.

You know, and they're just paying their time. They're relaxing. You know, they have to have protection as well because you're a Colombian inside of an Ecuadorian prison. Okay. You know, and the doors are always open. So you could get extorted. You can extorted easily.

If you're not, if you're not connected to the right people, you're getting extorted. Right. You know. What kind of extortion money does a Colombian Kingpin have to pay to stay safe every month? I wouldn't know the exact numbers, but it's definitely in the thousands per month. So there, you think probably in an Ecuadorian prison, the gangs collect millions a year just in protection payments?

Protection and drugs, most definitely. Wow. You got to think about it. It's an open market inside, right? If you have, if you're selling drugs when I was there, you could sell drugs, sell liquor, and you would pay each guard, $1. dollar, there's 26 guards on shift per shift, right? 12-hour shift.

Each guard gets $1, and then the head guard would come by your cell, and he gets 10. Right. And they let you sell whatever you want. You want to sell base. You want to sell Coke, weed, liquor, whatever you want. And they use American dollars and everything's the dollar down there. You got green dollars inside. Wow.

There's no commissary. There's nothing. Everything's a store. Everything's cash. There's stores. People buy a cell. they convert it into a store. You know, they'll send what we call

kachimochos. There's these guys that were coming to the prison. You give them a list. Hey, I need this. They go out to the store and they bring back whatever you need it. Rice, chicken, meats, milk, yogurt. Now, they'll charge you a lower price. Once it gets into the store, the guy in the store charges you double.

Yeah. Obviously, because now it's inside the jail. Yeah. You know what I mean? So, I mean, everything is just more money inside. Do you think the Ecuadorian gangs make more selling drugs in prison than they would, like on the streets of Quito? Yes, because it's more controlled. Right, right.

So it's definitely controlled 100%. Now, say like Fito, the guy that just left, right? Well, he left, he escaped. He escaped the jail. You have to buy from him and only him. If you're in one of his blocks. He controls about, I don't know, in the big jail in Wayaquil,

it would be like eight to ten blocks. and eight to ten blocks around two to three thousand people in each one. So think about that. And so many of them are on drugs. Everybody's addicted. It's 80% of people are addicted. You know,

when I was there, there was visits, Wednesdays, Saturdays, and Sundays. Now they've been going for months without visits. Yeah, because they're locked down. These people are locked down. They're going fucking insane inside.

You said, well, you were telling me before the pod, so you still actively are talking with people that are locked up in prison down there. Yes. And they tell you routinely, they're like, hey, there's about to, a riot's about to kick off. You want me to film this guy getting beheaded?

Yeah. Crazy shit like that. So those things happen now. They used to happen back in the day. I haven't seen beheadings, but like I showed you the pictures. Crazy stuff, you know. People would run up in a cell and stab you 30 times. Take your ears off.

Comes out on the paper. And I've seen this, you know, firsthand. Guns? Are there guns in there? Guns? People have guns. You know, if you read the news clips that I brought in, you know, the guy that got his ears cut off, he got murdered with a 9mm.

nearly got shot. All right. Three people died that day. He's the only one that came out in the picture, but it was something huge. Don't they have grenades? They have grenades. The guy I have in the picture in the news clip that, you know, escaped in 2008, he has actual news clip on YouTube where you could see this where a grenade goes off inside

of cell. And then they film him coming outside, you know, blood's coming out of his ears. They're putting him in an ambulance. And this guy's been through hell. And what are they beefing over? Just territory, man. So territory within the prisons. Exactly.

So this guy that got the grenade thrown at him, you know, he used to be in a different jail. He was doing too much over there, you know, selling drugs, extorting. He was the top dog. So then they send you to this spot called La Roca. This is what used to be like F Block. Yeah, it's the Rock. So F Block used to be the Rock before, but they closed that jail down. Now it's La Roca.

It's in Wayaquil. So they send this kid over there and, you know, wherever you live. land, there's already somebody running that block. So he comes in, and obviously there's different gangs there because whoever commits a murder or stab somebody or extortion, and they want to put you in Max, you get sent there. So he comes in, you know, he wants to do his mobster, you know, ways as well, you know, because for someone that's crazy, this is a saying down there. For someone that's crazy, there's always going to be someone that's crazy.

So he comes in, you know, he's got a bunch of bodies under his belt inside the jail. He's taking people's ears off. You know, this kid's no joke. So he comes in and he's like, you know, this is my block now. I'm home. Yeah. And, you know, he came in with a couple of his friends. So, you know, it's a war.

It's like a battle. And, but the problem is that you're in a battle with people that are feet away from you. Yeah. You know, we're all like really close proximity. You know, and then you have guns, nine millimeters, 38s. You have grenades. You know, I put a clip on YouTube. I told you the other day about a friend of my mom.

mine and was shot in La Roca. You know, he got shot nine times. There's a nine millimeter on the ground. He's on the ground bleeding. You know, my other friend got a grenade thrown into his cell. Do they investigate these? Or do they pretty much just wrap you up? There's really no investigation.

There's cameras everywhere. They see what happens. Yeah. You know, and nobody gets arrested, really. The guy who did it, he's a, I mean, I don't want to say lifer, but he's got a sentence where he's not going home. So this is what they call Come and Muerto. So it means he eats the dead.

Yeah. So if you got a problem with someone. you could hire him. He'll be your hitman. He'll go and merc somebody. So there's hitman for hire in the prison. Inside, yes, most definitely. What are the sentencing structures like down there, like for drug trafficking and for murder compared to the United States? Okay. And is there a parole system? Like if you have life, but then you have a good behavior, can you actually get out early and not spend the rest of your life in there? So there's really not a life sentence, but they'll hand out 25-year sentences for like a murder.

Now, say if it's like manslaughter, you could get 16. You know, it all depends on what happens, how you committed the murder. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So you were in prison down there for almost seven years. Yes.

From what years to when? So December 18th, 2001, I got locked up and I was deported September 26, 2008. Yeah. Okay. So, but you're from New Jersey. Yes. Bring us up to how that happened. All right.

Take us through from when you, you know, first. got connected, and then, you know, up to your arrest. Okay, so starts off in a small town in Jersey. By the way, you're Columbia. We should, and we're going to introduce that as well to the audience. Tell us about your family first. Where in Colombia is your family from? Yeah, no, I don't know why you say I'm Colombian.

I'm not Colombian. You're not Colombian? Oh, you just love Colombia as a seat. I went to Colombia to go traffic. You're Ecuadorian? No, I'm not Ecuadorian either. Are you an Italian guy? No, not Italian.

Are you fucking kidding me? You're just a white guy? So listen, my parents are from Uruguay. Oh, okay. Okay. I was born in Jersey, born and raised. All right. I got connected with the Colombians at this job.

And then I traveled there. I love Colombia. Oh, my God. It's a great country. Great, you know, great place to go. And I went there to traffic. But yeah, I'm not cool. Yeah.

And you're dressed like a Colombian. You're dressed like you got an appliance shop. Like you got a fake gold chain on. You got a nice watch. But you're from southern, South America. Who do I? Yeah. Wow. Okay. All right. Well, there you have it, folks.

Mitchell doesn't do his research before the guest comes in. Okay. This amazing episode you're watching with Oscar Castro is sponsored by Prize Picks. Prize Picks is America's number one fantasy sports app with more than 3 million members. It is the easiest and most exciting way to get in on the action while you watch your favorite sports and players. You just pick more or less on two or more player stats and watch the winnings roll in. Get in on the playoff action and win up to 100 times your money on prize picks as you and the world's best players take the game to a new level during basketball's postseason. Prize picks has something for every sports fan, from basketball and hockey to League of Legends and

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Find what you love and love what you find only at Total Wine and More. Shop Total Wine and More in store or online. Spirits not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsive. possibly B-21. I grew up in Jersey, dropped out of high school, and my father told me immediately, you know, when you drop out,

if you decide to, you're going to have to get a job. So I go and get this job, and I'm in a van going to work like a Mexican, you know, in a van, going to the warehouse with a bunch of, you know, illegal immigrants,

and I start working at this warehouse and meet this kid, call him G. And, you know, we become friendly, you know, smoke a joint together during work at lunch break or whatever. And one day he invites me to his house, introduces me to his cousin, Ricky. And from there, they invite me to a party.

So I get to this party and this gentleman, Ricky, has an uncle that's there, you know, mostly Colombian traffickers. And, you know, he walks out to me and says, you know, would you consider traveling to Colombia, you know, to pick up some heroin? and I was interested. So, and you speak Spanish? Yes. Okay. So they kind of trust you a little more. I guess they, yeah, I mean, they know me.

I mean, I live in the same town as, you know, his nephew. And I wanted to do it. I was a young kid. I wasn't scared of anything. And I was, I was willing. I guess I was just dumb. Did you have criminals in your family? Did you have a...

No. I had the best examples that I could have as parents, both hardworking immigrant families. family. You know, my father worked as a lawyer's assistant. My mother owned a deli, which was like from 5 a.m. to like 10 p.m. You know, they were always working. So the best example I could have were my parents. Oh, wow. Yeah. So this is cowboy shit. I just didn't, you know. Wow. I just didn't want that life. I wanted to be, you know, the trafficker. I wanted to go out. I guess it's because of the movies or the music, whatever the case may be. But it was in me and I wanted to do it.

So I met this guy. He told me about this trip. I said, let's go. Let's do it. You know, I'd never been to Columbia, but I was excited to do it.

And did heroin make you scared? Did any of this? No, not really. I mean, to me, it didn't scare me at all. I mean, I've been around people

that have done drugs and been around drugs since I was like 14. But, you know, heroin seemed risky, but I wasn't scared of anything. And the way they paint the picture is,

you know, You're going to do a six-hour flight. You come back, whatever you bring back, you know, it's 20 a gram, and that's it. So $20 a gram was the-$20 a gram was the going rate at the time. So if you bring back, say, two kilos, 2,000 grams. That's a real good, that's a real good fee for just, you know, bringing it through the airport. For a six-hour trip. And besides the fact that you go down, you know, you're partying, women, you know, parties, whatever you want down there.

And you're only 16 years old. Yeah, at the time. Yeah, it was about to be 17. Wow. And how much did they say you were going to be picking up? So the first trip, they said it was a kilo. So when we got back, you know, they picked me up at the airport, traveled to an apartment in Queens that was on 111st Street and 41st Avenue. Just a brick building went upstairs. You know, it was some girls apartment went inside, you know, started opening up the shoes because we brought in the shoes. So this is pre-9-11. So how did it go? In the shoes that you were wearing? Yeah.

So the shoes I had on, it was, I'm not going to say the exact number, but I believe it was like 300 in each shoe. And then it was probably like 300 in each shoe that was in the bag. Or it was 400 in each shoe and it was 300 in each shoe in the bag. It was something like that. So you had four shoes total. I had two pairs. So the shoes I had on and then the other pair that was in the luggage. And how do they get the heroin?

when they put it in the soles of the shoe? Yeah, basically they just, you know, rip up the soul of your shoe. They scrape out everything. So it had to be a shoe like a new balance or an Adida or Apumas. They had the thick soul. So they gut it out. You know,

basically a shoemaker would do this. They would gut it out and then they would make the drugs in the form of the shoe, you know, so it would be all taped up. It would be in plastic and they would put it in. And then they'd seal it back up. They'd give it, you know, a good time to dry. So there's no smell.

of the chemicals or the super glue that they were using down there. And that's it. And you put them on. You walked right through the airport with them. Yeah. So you got over a kilo. Yes. So you had about whatever, 13,400 grams. I think the first time I made 22,000 on the first trip. Wow. Yeah. The second trip, it was 28. It was more, I remember. So you can see how it wouldn't be hard to get, if they got you, a middle class kid from Jersey to take a risk like this, you can see how it's the easiest thing in the world to grab a girl from a village outside of Cartagena or Pareira and say, hey, do you want to make an American, do you want to make two years salary and one run? Yeah. Wow. Okay, so tell us about the trip down there. And this was what made you fall in love with Columbia, too. Yeah. So the first

trip down there was pretty exciting for me, you know, never been to Columbia. I land down there. I got this guy, older gentleman waiting for me with a sign. Sign said, pacho. So I was told to look for a guy with a sign named Paco. So I get there, I see the guy picks me up, you know, says, how you doing? I'm, you know, Tullio's brother. We're going to go to my house. And this in Bogota? No, this is in Pereira.

Okay. So we go to his house. You know, this guy lived in a small part of Pereira called Dos Kebradas. And we get there, he introduces me to his wife, his kids, you know, it's his house. And we sit down for dinner. You know, I guess the whole family knows why I'm coming. Obviously, they know what kind of business he's. in.

And, and that's it, you know, takes me out. Let's go out party. What do you want? You want some girls? Told his son, get this kid some weed. He wants to smoke a joint. Yeah, whatever you want. They get you relaxed.

Of course, you know. They're basically, for whatever you need, they're there. Yeah. But they're basically, you know, prepping you, throwing you a party because they know you might be spending a decade in prison if you got popped to going through the airport. Yeah, they don't want you snitching in the future. Did, uh, did you know of, about any other people, any other mules that they were setting up to make a run as you were down there?

My first trip, before I left, one of this guy's Tullio's girlfriends had a son. And I knew him. He was young. He was 14. And she sends him on a trip down there. And he's bringing back drugs and he doesn't even know it. Yeah. Yeah. So he goes two days prior from when I left. When I get down there, this kid's already there at the house. He's playing with the other kids, you know, because they were around his age. Yeah.

I was 16, but I was almost 17 and I always grew up around older people. So I was just in a different, my movie was different. He was like little kid shit and I was doing the growing up stuff. She was putting her own son. She was putting her own son at risk. So he brought back, I don't know. know if you've seen those nintendoes they have like a hundred games in them brought back one of those and then he brought back um the cd holders you could hold like 40 CDs in us and the bottom they would

cut it and they would do like a it's called double fondo like a double bottom and they stack some heroin in there too and boom so i gave it to him before he left here take this back to your uncle tullio he would call him and he took it back to him so you imagine like they got to have runners i'm sure going all the time coming in and out. Of course. I work with them. So eventually I would find out, eventually, you know, I would also work going to pick up passengers, you know, at the airport in Queens. Oh, so you were picking up people. When I wasn't doing runs, I'm working with them. We're doing all kinds of things. Okay. So what are you picking up? Who's mostly, who are you mostly picking up? Are they women or are they men? Couples. Okay. Yeah, they were

couples. So. And how were they normally smuggling it through? Same thing, shoes. Okay. What about like the swallowing a balloon? We didn't deal with that. Okay. Yeah. Is that mostly Coke? Or is that just a different? No, you could do both.

You could do both. Yeah. Why couldn't you do heroin? You could do both. Is that just a more kind of risky, like brutal way? It is brutal. Say if you swallow it and it explodes, you're dead. Right.

You know, all the chemicals that are in your stomach, they're going to start eating away at that. Because they package it up. It's compressed into a little finger, a little pellet. And then it gets packaged with the surgical glove fingers. and then at the end it gets dipped in wax a couple times, right? But what's the advantage, I guess, to doing that versus just putting it into a shoe or a false bottom in a suitcase? I think that came after 9-11, where after 9-11, you couldn't walk through the airport with a pair of shoes.

You're getting caught because everything is getting screened. Right. Going through scanners. They're taking your shoes. They're punching holes in them. They don't know if you have, you know, explosive devices in them. Right. You're getting, everything's going through the scanners.

Before that, there was no issue. Right. Okay. Interesting. So they made it more dangerous for. the mules after 9-11 because now they got to swallow you got a kilo heroin in your stomach yeah damn that's wild bro yeah you know i remember when i was uh you know my dirtbag days i'd be you know running around with these you know women of the night in places like cartagena and um you know

the peripheries right like these towns in columbia where beautiful women either become prostitutes single mothers or they work you know at a little stand. Everybody knows somebody that swallowed. Yeah. You know? I figured, but in a few ways.

But like everybody knows like somebody that, you know, took that risk and, you know, put like 1,500 grams of dope in their stomach. And, I mean, you're like, dude, the desperation is a brutal.

That's brutal business. It's brutal. It's brutal. You're risking your life pretty much. Yeah. I mean, I also risk my life by bringing the shoes because then I,

I got locked up and I got sent to a prison in a foreign country, right? What were you before that, though? So you make your first run, you collect a big bag. Was it thrilling going through the airport? Were you scared? Oh, the adrenaline. Forget about it. So my first run was in 98, and there had just been an earthquake in the town of Armenia.

I've been to Armenia. You've been there. So I ran through there when the earthquake just happened like two weeks prior. The city was, it looked like Iraq. All the buildings were falling. The jail, the walls of the jail had broken, fallen all over the place. All the prisoners escaped from the jail. It was insane.

So that was the excuse for my trip. I went down there because my grandmother lives in Armenia. I went to go visit her. I came back and, you know, I just went and left her some money because she's got to build a house. That was my excuse when I'm coming back through customs. So you always have a backstory. You got to have a backstory. And do they only send people with American passports, I assume?

Right? Yes. Okay. Interesting. You know, an American passport, nobody's really, back in the day, nobody was really true. Right. Okay. So what were, and you make that trip, you get your money, then you start working with this guy and his, basically his organization. With the crew, yeah, it was like five of us. And they're out in Queens, probably Jackson Heights. That's where all the Colombians are. We were in Corona. Corona, too. Yeah, we're in Corona. So what other things are you doing? You're picking up the mules that get in through the airport. But are you actually like,

selling bags for him? No, we're not selling bags. We're selling the weight. So we had connects that we would take, you know, the drugs to in Elizabeth. Okay. I don't know if you ever been to Elizabeth, Elizabeth at the Seaport used to be the projects back in the day. Uh-huh.

You could run through there in your car and there would be, you know, 50 people staying on each corner. Yeah. It was popping. It was crazy. So you're just delivering. So we had the connect of the guy that actually ran the PJs down there. Okay.

And we would go. We would give them, you know, like the stuff I brought back, we took to him. And you sold. that came back of, you know, the next week we took to him. Because he was selling, he would brick it up and he would sell on the streets. He had his people out there. Oh, so he's getting, he's getting pure heroin. He's getting pure heroin.

So this is the thing. He was getting it firsthand because we're firsthand. This is straight off the plane. Yeah. He's getting it at a good price. What do you sell in a kilo to him for? Those days, it would be, it would fluctuate, but we would get them like 62, 64, 65, you know. But we're getting it from the transportation.

point from Queens. Once it lands, depending on what the price was, our boss, Tullio would give it to us 52-55. So me and my boys, we transported, we make it to a quick 10 Gs. We split up because we're taking it. You know, we're getting the money. We're bringing it back. And that's, that's what we're going to pay to do. So Tullio, after paying the mule, whatever, 25 Gs. Yeah. And then 10 for delivery, he's making about 25,000 off a kilo. Yep. And then the guy in the projects is making more time is that because he's breaking it. Because you can take heroin, unlike Coke, you can only step on Coke so many times before your fiends won't buy it.

Heroin, you can pure heroin, just stretch it. Yeah. He was chopping it up, making tons of bricks. Yeah. This guy was making a lot of money. And what kind of, do Colombians still push heroin anymore? Is that even a thing? I'm not sure.

I mean, I'm out of the game for years. Obviously. I don't know, but you have your ear to the what's going on down there a little bit. What I do know is, you know, in the jails, it's big. down there in Ecuador. Everybody's, you know, doing base, doing heroin, sniffing coke. I mean, things haven't changed. It was like that when I got there.

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Okay, let's get back into the episode. So it's safe to say that like a lot of product that gets prepared, whether it's heroin or coke or weed, a good amount of that stays in the countries for the consumption in the prisons. Yes. I would believe that the worst of it stays there. I think they're a good product. They push out to Europe. Yeah. You know, right now the seaports, the battle is because they're shipping most of it to Europe.

Not too much of it's coming to the states now. But like from Machala, vince, Wayaquil, it's all going to Europe now because that's where the big money is. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you're making good money. You're 17, 18.

Making good money living on my own, you know, partying with these guys every night, you know, women, you know, just going crazy. I never had this kind of money in my life. You know, first time I got back when you get those 20 grand in cash, it's like, what am I going to do now? You're 17, you want to go party.

Yeah. So that's what I did. I mean, you know, blew all the money. But as we're parting, we're also doing things on the side. Yeah. You know, I saw an episode you did with the guy with the fake bills. I had a run with fake bills as well. You know, we would just dabble in a bunch of different things.

Why did you decide to make the second trip down there? I just, I wanted to. Yeah. Yeah, I wanted it. I wanted more money. I wanted to go down and have a good time again, you know. So take us through that second trip. trip now. So are you getting more or is it still the same rate?

Same price. 20 a gram. Same price, 20 a gram. This time I landed in Medellín where a gentleman meets me, same sign, Pacho, picks me up, takes me to a hotel. You know, he tells me that tomorrow I'll be back around, you know, I think it was like eight, nine in the morning. He's like, we're going to Perida. But I landed in Medellin because the first time I landed in Perida, so I want to have a different stamp on my passport. Lend in Medellin. This guy takes me in car. We're going through. the mountains like an eight hour trip all the way to bed at ada end up in the same house same guy same family he's back hey what's up guys how's it going you know it's all it's all organized it's all organized from the buyer your guy uh in in queens all the way down to the receiver at the

airport to the the guy who's running the stash that's right yeah so you pick up um is it in the shoes again yeah same thing this time it was a pair of shoes and I don't know why they did this, but the second pair were a pair of sandals, like beach sandals. So we have like a wet pair of like swim shorts and the sandals in a Ziploc bag. It was like sandy, grainy. Like I'd just come from the beach or something. Trying to make it gross. Yeah.

So do they give you the backstory? No. Beforehand or that's up to you. No, no. Yeah. I just think about what I'm going to say when I get there. Okay. Did they talk to you about what happens if you get caught?

Of course. What do they tell you? Well, they told me, you know, you're going to end up in jail. That's the first thing. And then, you know, they said, we'll help you out, which was a lie. That's all they say. We'll help you out. Yeah, we'll help you out.

Dei Lamos. Yeah, da yulamos. Yeah. Okay. Is there a bail system down there? In Ecuador, there's no bail for drug trafficking. Hang on, because we're still in Colombia. So I want to separate.

Oh, I'm sorry. At this point, we're still in Colombia. In Colombia, are you aware of a bail system for drugs? Not sure. Not sure. I don't believe there is. though. Wow. So you get caught drug dealing. You're staying in there until you go to court. Yeah.

And get your sentence. Yeah. Wow. That's the way it is. That sucks. Yeah, most definitely. Well, but it's smart because a guy like you, it's nothing. I'm not coming back. No, of course not. You're being the first thing smoking. I would have been going. Yeah. Well, it's the same way in the States. If you're an illegal, you know, Mexican and you get caught with a bunch of dope, you're going to get a no bail hold. You're going to get an immigration hold on you. Because they know as soon as you bail, I. out you're gone. Yeah, of course. Um, okay. So, but the second trip you get through. Yes. Second trip I land. I remember, uh, this guy, too, you're telling me, when you come back and you get to the customs

line, look for a woman. Look for an elderly woman. That's going to be who you're going to go to. And that, that could be your abuela. That's right. So did you ever have, uh, when you went through, when you're at the customs guy, going through customs at the, the agent? Yeah. Did you ever, did it ever get tricky? like did he ever get suspicious of you? No, never. Wow. Did you, when you walk up, did you put yourself in some kind of like meditative state? Like how did you keep from sweating?

I would say you're in a meditated state from the moment you got the stuff on you. Because, you know, you're on a flight of Avianca flight coming back from Colombia. Yeah. So you know that back in the day, traffic, it was big, especially on planes. So there's got to be a Fed or a D-A agent on this plane. I'm pretty sure they got one or two that's sitting on this plane and it's flying back and forth all day to Colombia coming back. You know, that's probably his job watching people, you know. My second flight, I had a gentleman sit next to me, started asking me questions.

Like, what were you doing? Where'd you go? So, you know, I just answered them, you know, politely, but, you know, I cut them off pretty quick. Right. That was a little suspicious to me. Interesting. You know, who knows who he was. Right.

But talking to you in Spanish? No, in English. Yeah, in English. He was like suit and tie. But, you know, I was young and good thing I was smart. At least at that moment I didn't, you know, talk about anything suspicious. You know, did my flight, got there, came off, got to the customs line, looked for an elderly woman, found one, and I got in her line. So when I pulled up, she was like, oh, what were you doing in Columbia?

I was like, oh, I went to go visit my grandma. Oh, he's such a sweet boy, stamped it. Welcome back to the U.S. No questions asked. was psychological. If you get in the line behind the sweet old grandma and you go up to the line right after her. No, I was looking for the sweet old grandma as the customs agent. Oh, I see. Looking for a elderly woman. Oh, who was working as the customs agent. He said, look for an elderly woman. You know, she's going to let you go by. I'm telling you. That's what I looked for. So was she paid off?

No, she wasn't paid off. They just had just had an eye on her. Right. No, it's just, you know, you're a young white kid with green eyes. Yeah. You don't look like a traffic. You just look for a woman. You know, maybe she might like you, and that's why she's going to let you go by remote ball. Right. Okay. So that's why they told me to do it.

The Mexicans do that, too. Ed Calderon, who's been on this show, you know, famous. Yeah. He tells me they got, they have centuries posted up in these high rises, looking down on the ports of entry in Tijuana. And they'll be on, they'll be on communication, like on a radio with the mules that are driving up in the lines. They'll say, go to the black guy.

So you bet that out with my out. Yeah. Yeah. Like he's, I've seen something like that that they do at the border and they're all like with the binoculars. They're like, oh,

go in lane three. Yeah. This is the one where you're going to get through. Yeah. This chick looks tired. Yep. You know what I mean? Just go.

Yeah. And they say never go to the Asians. Yeah. The Filipinos are the worst. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. They're the meanest.

Yeah. And they take their job the most seriously. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Okay. So you had no problems. The second run you get through.

No problems. Check this out. Get through the second run. I get out and I start calling my contact. Nobody's picking up. This time I came back with more, right? How much dope is on you? How much heroin?

I have, I believe it was 1,200 grams total. And then I had Bolivian cocaine that I had put in a wallet that I made, especially for me. It was 50 grams. It was the best cocaine I ever tried in my life. It was like yellow. So when I tried it down there, I was like, I got to have this, take back party with the boys. I bought some, had it put in a wallet, and I was bringing it back. Now, I get through customs.

I'm at the phone. I'm making the calls. I didn't have any cash because the guy that took me to the airport, obviously I was like, bro, here, take all this guy. I'm about to go make some real money. I gave him everything I had. I just kept change to make that call. Because it back in the day, with pay phones.

So I gave them all my dough. And when I'm making the calls, nobody's picking up. None of my contacts. Like, Jesus, what am I going to do? I'm sitting here. I already made it. You know, I made my trip. And I'm stuck at the airport.

Who do I call? My mother. I'm at JFK. Can you come pick me up? Yeah, no problem. She comes and picks me up. Before she gets there, my guys roll up. I'm outside sitting on the luggage.

I got customs walking by. You know, it was horrible. So they take me. I jump in the car. We go into the parking lot. I take the stuff out and give it to them, boom, boom, boom. All right. I was like, bro, I got to go.

My parents are coming. You assholes didn't pick up. I had to call them. They were like, oh my God, they were all like drunk, hung over. Yeah. I was like, I'll see you guys later. I just jumped in the car. Yeah.

You know, they took me back to the spot where I was waiting for my parents and they came eventually and picked me up. Now, you know how every kid feels with an alcoholic father waiting after soccer practice, you know? Yeah. Wow. So these guys didn't always have their shit together. Oh, man.

Especially not the workers. Yeah. I'm sure the top dogs do. Yeah, the top dog was pretty upset about that because I was waiting there for like two hours. Now, what if you had gotten caught on the, well, both sides? Like, what do you think they're, you know, the guy, the boss in the States and the boss in Columbia, if a mule gets caught, what kind of like, I mean, you know everything about him.

You know, where his baby mama lives, you know, where his family lives, you know, about your guy in the States. Like, do they have any, do they lie to you? Do they have any kind of like plausible deniability? I don't know. Did you think about that at all? I thought about it. You know, obviously it's something.

you have to think about. You might get locked up. Maybe the trip doesn't go as planned. But I just never thought about snitching. It was never in me. You know, I believe, you know, once you get in the game, you got to go in all the way and, you know, play by the rules. Yeah. You know, that's the way it was.

Okay. So you were ready. I was ready. I was prepared to get locked up. I mean, mentally, yes. Yeah. Okay. And then you have to be if you're in the game selling dope. If you...

It's going to eventually happen. My father always told me, you know, he told me before I left the second, that trip to Ecuador. You know, I had to go to the house to pick up my passport. Because I always leave important stuff there. And he was there. He sees me, where are you going? He sees me with my passport in my head. And then going on a trip.

He's like, are you going to come back? So I turned around. I'm like, what are you saying that for? Of course I'm going to come back. I don't know. He's like the life you're leading. You end up in jail or dead. Did he know what you were doing?

Of course. They knew what I was doing. Yeah, we'd come in and out the house, you know, showing money and different things. They didn't know about the muleing, though. They probably imagined it. So my parents, on the first trip I did, they invited me to go to Florida with them. They were going to meet some family members that were coming up from South America. Now, I go on my trip.

I said, no, I can't. Maybe I'll call you. I'm going to be in Miami. I might stop by, Orlando. I lied. I was going to Columbia. When I'm in Columbia, I make a phone call to their hotel from the house I'm in. Now you have to call an operator back in the day to make that international call.

And this idiot calls the hotel and lets them know you have an international. call from Columbia, from Oscar, your son. So when she gets on the phone, she's flipping out. It's like, what are you doing in Colombia again? I thought you told me you were going to be in Miami. So, yeah, they knew what I was doing. They know, I was leading the wrong life. Yeah.

And you're 18 years old or something. Yeah, the second trip, I was like 18. So, you know, what can they say? Yeah. What can they do? I'm a grown man by that time. I'm going to do what I want anyway. Yeah, do what you want.

Your parents just sacrificed everything. Yeah. to come to the States. That's the way it is, man. Did you have any brothers or sisters? Step sister. Okay. Yeah.

But you didn't really have, you know, it seems like you, you let the street take you. Yeah. I went to the streets, yeah. Like directly. So then how does Ecuador come into play? Why Ecuador on this third run? Because we had already done two runs to Columbia. Okay.

Right? So we got multiple stamps on that passport from Colombia. And I had stamps from like Argentina and Uruguay that had flown to prior. So we decided on Ecuador Okay, so tell us about this Your guy Ticho The boss in Tulio in New York

Did he also have plugs in Ecuador? So yes, this is where Ecuador comes in the play because He can get the drugs to transport it Because they're doing it now Transporting from Columbia to Quito And there's passengers going there to pick up Because Columbia is getting a little bit hot

It's getting hot. You know, 98 was okay, 99. It's getting a little bit hotter. As the years progressed, it started getting hotter and hotter. Yeah. And these are the years, too, because now that's a main route. It goes, the routes go Columbia, south, into Ecuador, and then leave from the ports, if we're talking about gigantic quantities. And then they set sail through the Panama Canal and go straight across the Atlantic to Europe.

So the mules are going. So you're picking up Colombian drugs in Ecuador. In Ecuador. Okay. Gotcha. Perfect. And that's out of Quito. At A Quito.

Okay. The capital. Yep. Okay. So, yeah. Floor is yours. What happened? So landed in Quito.

This trip was all wrong from the beginning. Landed there. My luggage never arrived. That was the first thing. Second thing, there's nobody there waiting for me. So I had the catch a cap to the hotel. I was days without communication with the guy that was supposed to bring the stuff. So I'm calling New York.

I'm like, what's going on? I mean, this guy doesn't show up. You know. I'm not going to just take the stuff and leave the last day. Like, what's going on here? So, like, don't worry, give him a chance. You know, he's going to be there. He's on his way or whatever.

I know the trip from Cali to Quito was long. So I was like, all right, let's give him a chance. Maybe he doesn't want to stop. Doesn't want to make phone calls. What happens is this guy eventually gets to the border with Ecuador and Colombia. It's a small town called Tulkan. I've been. You've been there.

All right. It's hot down there, bro. Yes, I know. So think about it. When did you go? I went in 2009. Okay. So I was there in 2001, which was off the charts.

Yeah, you got guerrillas? You got the guerrillas, Las FARC, LN, M3C. We got all these, you know, guerrilla warfare gangs everywhere on the front, on the frontier. Lawless down there, bro. It's fucking crazy. So this guy gets caught at the border. Okay. He gets nervous.

I don't know what the hell happened. He gets caught. So they put him in the jail. They let him think about it, I guess, for a day. and then this kid's like, you know what, I'm taking this stuff to Quito. This is the guy I'm taking it to. He's in this hotel.

They set up an operation with Quito. They call, I guess, Interpol, the police, whatever the case may be. And they do a sting operation on me in the hotel. Okay. Now, since I feel like something's funny for days, I leave the hotel to do my own, like, sting operation. Supposedly, I'm in front at the Swiss hotel.

There's a casino on the first floor. I go to the one of the slot machines that it's directly in front of a window where I could see the main entrance to my hotel. So I know the kids come in that day and I'm sitting there playing the slouches, watching the door. But I never saw anything, you know,

that would have made me suspicious. So the time comes when the guy's supposed to be there. So I walk out, I go straight, walk right through the front door. And the receptionist is like, hey, Mr. Castro, you're a friend. So I turn around, bam, I look, and I see this guy.

I didn't know what he looked like, but obviously we have to look like, hey, what's up, buddy, how you doing? So I go, you know, hug him,

how's it going? First thing I notice immediately is this kid does not smell good. You know, so it doesn't smell good is a big red flag for me because, you know, when you're in the drug game,

everybody wants to look good, smell good, you know, this kid smelled like death. Yeah, it smells like he's been in jail for three days. Yeah, and I was like,

what the hell? And then we sit down and, and this guy, you know, he has one of those, kangaroos they call him with those backpacks that you put. So he takes it off.

He puts it next to me and we're just talking, you know, like chit-chat and he's like, yeah, the stuff's in here. I got to go back to the hotel. I'm going to go take a shower

and all that stuff. But I'm looking at it and it's just like, I get this like weird vibe. I'm like, all right, bro, no problem. And then when I grab the bag and I get up to leave,

I feel it's like, it's not, there's not a key in there. Definitely not a key. I've had them. And I'm just like, and when that thought comes in the play,

it's just like, bam. Everybody that was around me, was Interpol, D.A. So you just got swarmed right there. Swarmed. They take me upstairs, you know, get to the, get to the room. There's already cops in the room. They're looking through all my stuff. They'd open the safe.

You know, they're looking at my jewelry, my passport, money I had in there. My passport since it was used, I had traveled a lot with it. The plastic where the picture is was coming up, that corner. So, you know, they smacked me a couple times. They said, you know, this passport's fake. Where are you from? Are you Colombian?

I'm like, listen, I'm American. You're going to call the embassy. You'll find out. And then they just take me downstairs. They put me in a car. They take me to Interpol. Interpol was right across the street from the airport. When I arrived there, you know, I'm going down this hallway.

And I look to the right in one of the rooms. I see the kid that brought me the drugs. They take me to a room. They sit me down. They handcuffed me. And they tell me, you're going to have to wait a little bit. There's a DA agent that's going to come and see you. So like two hours go by, this guy shows up.

Young black kid. He was like 23, 24. American? American. Wow. Crazy. Yes. So he shows up.

He's like, hey, what's going on? Obviously, you know why you're here? You know, we just want information. So I was like, I don't know what information I can give you. I don't know anything. He said, come on, you know, you know something. Give me some names. I can help you out.

I don't know anything. I mean, I thought I was going to pick up money. That's what I told him. Oh, you want to play games? All right. He's like, you know, you're going to do like 25 years here for this drugs. You know, at that moment, I was like 25 years. In my head, I'm just thinking, I was like, there's no way.

Yeah. I'm like, this guy's full of it. And it was for a kilo? Yeah, it was for a kilo heroin. I was like, there's no way. He's like, you know, America is now in Ecuador and we're going to, we go hard at drugs. So get ready. And I was like, all right.

But I never gave him anything, never said a name or anything. They take me back to his holding cell. in Interpol, this is I believe it was December 19th when I saw the guy from Interpol. The guy from DEA. After he leaves, they put me in a cell. There's nothing in the cell.

There's nobody, and I'm by myself. I'm there for the next three days, right? And nobody comes and talks to me. I got no communication, no phone calls, nothing. Until one day they come in, they're like, all right, let's go, we're going. I'm like, where are we going? They're like, we're going to Tulkan.

It's where your case starts. put me in the back of a pickup truck, you know, handcuffed to like some metal bar. And we're driving from Quito all the way to Tulkan through the mountains. In the back of a pickup truck. The worst ride of my life. Yes. Horrible.

And the roads in Ecuador suck. It's like Afghanistan, dude. They're not paved. There's no huge. You're just bouncing the whole time. Yeah. You can imagine how fun that ride was. Yeah.

So, you know, we get to Tulcan. We arrived there. they take me to this place called CEDEP, which is like the center department of police. Basically, it's the quartel for them. You know, that's where the trainees come in,

you know, the new guys. And then there's like five, 600 cops there. They put me in this little like, wooden storage unit with some metal bars. They handcuff me into there. I walk in.

There's three other guys there for like local robberies. And they're like, oh, don't worry, bro. You're going to be good. You know, they talk to me in Spanish. They want to know if I,

knew how to speak Spanish. I was like, yeah. And they were like, oh, shit, you know how to speak Spanish? It's crazy. You look like an American. So they were like, don't worry, you're going to be good. The jail here's great. You know, it's run by the Colombians.

You're going to be fine. I was like, all right, cool. So I was there, I think, for two days. And then the cops come and they take me out. And they're like, all right, we're going to the jail. And you haven't been charged with anything yet? Nothing. Okay.

Nothing. I haven't spoken to any lawyers. Yeah. Nothing. Are you asking for lawyers? Of course. I'm asking for a phone call, lawyers. Embassy.

you know, I want to know what's going on. Like, what are we doing? Are you staying calm? Because I'd be freaking. I mean, I'd be cussing at motherfuckers. So listen, I mean, I'm alone in a foreign country in jail and nobody's giving me any info. So, of course, you're freaking out, right? They walk me out and they're like, all right, we're going to the big jail.

And I can hear music playing in the background. Sasa music. This is December 24, 2001. So the Quartel is like down the block from where their prison is in Tulca. What is the quartel? Quartel is like

It's where the police train. Okay. And where they like put their all their cars and you know they train the new the new cadets that are coming in that want to be police officers. Yeah. Okay.

Just like a training facility for them. Yeah. But it's huge and it's filled with cops. So obviously no one can escape from them. And then the jail is right next to it. So they're walking me down the block. I hear this music. I get to the front door.

They open the door. The guards are there. They're all dressed in like fatigue uniforms. There's a young lady guard. She's like, don't worry. You're going to be good. The music's getting louder. I'm like, what the hell's going on here?

They walk me down these halls. At the end of the hall, I can see like sunlight flashing through, like a gate. I see like some heads moving around. People looking down towards my direction. Once we get there, I can see inside. There's speakers this high on the floor. in in in the patio this is like the basketball courts there's women dancing with men salsa right there's people drinking liquor you know they got bottles um there's pool tables there's everything so i walk in

i'm just like what is this this white boy walks out to me tall white kid green eyes and he's like hey what's up white boy i look at him like you know english like yeah bro let's go follow me So follow this kid. We go up the steps. We walk into this cell. And this is all the guys that ran this jail are in this cell. So I woke in. There's this guy named Orlando.

He was the guy who was like the caporal. So he's like, hey, what's up, man? You know, I'm Orlando. This is my wife, my kids. Everybody's inside. White boy Alex was right next to me. The kid that I first saw when I walked in. And they're like, all right, tell us your story.

So I explain it to them. and they're like, all right, you know you've been set up, right? I said, yeah, I know. I saw the guy in Interpol. Obviously, he set me up. They're like, where is this kid? I was like, I don't know. They didn't bring me.

They just brought me by myself. They were like, okay, eventually he should be here. You know, hopefully you'll see him soon. Okay. Can I stop you right there? Yes. Do they paperwork check you when you get to South American jails the way they do in the States? There's no paperwork.

I didn't have any paperwork. There's nothing. So basically it's just your stuff. story. Yeah. Right. There's not much of paperwork checking down in Ecuador. What about like sex offenders?

Is there any taboo around like sex crimes? Yeah, sex offenders, you're going to know immediately who they are because the guards, when they bring them in, they already let everybody know. And then, you know, whatever happens to them happens. Do they get killed? Usually? I have, I mean, I never saw anyone get killed. That was a sex offender for that reason.

Just for being a chomo, I didn't see them get killed for that. They'll get beaten and they'll get treated. and they'll get treated like garbage in the jail. You know, and they're washing clothes for you and washing dishes and they're like the scum of the jail. But they're not, it's not like taboo the way it is. Like if you're in Cali in a maximum security prison, you can't take two steps with paperwork like that.

You're getting stabbed up. So it's not like that down there. No, not like that. I guess every Latin man's had a 16 year old girlfriend at some point. Probably. They look the other way. Yeah. Okay. So interesting.

So go ahead. So they know this kid snitched. So obviously they know. the kid snitch, they told me. I was like, yeah, I know. So they were like, what do you need? I was like, I want to make a phone call, man. So call my, you know, call my mom, call her up, listen, you know, I'm in Ecuadorian jail. Shit's crazy. She didn't believe me because she's hearing, you know, there's kids crying in the background, there's music. She's like, why are you lying to me? I was like, listen, I'm not lying, you know, call the embassy. You're going to speak to this person. They'll let you

know, and, you know, call me back on this number. I gave her the phone number, and then I hung up. Is there cell phones at this point down? Yeah, we got cell phones inside the cell. The guy, when I told him, you know, I need to make a phone call, pulled out a StarTac, flip phone. Blume, gave it to me. With the big ass antenna? Yes, the one I have to pull out. So I made the phone call there.

And that's it. You know, let my mom know. And then once I hung up, they were like, all right, man. They were like, you know, it's visit day. Everybody's partying. You know, there's women inside this jail that are also prisoners. And they're on the other side of the jail. But today they're on this side because today's, you know, December 24th, it's a huge party.

We've got visits. There's kids. There's women. There's everything. So go with Alex. You know, you're going to have a great time with him. Go party. Get your mind off shit.

You know, go relax. I go with Alex and, you know, we go to this room. Everybody's partying. Everybody's drunk, drinking. There's a plate full of cocaine. And it's just, it's on from day one. Who's white boy, Alex? Why was he in there?

He's also there for trafficking. He got caught trying to smuggle keys of cocaine. through the border. Okay. Where's he from? He's from Cali and he's the one who's the English professor now. Wow. The guy that I was telling you about. Okay, okay. But he's a Latin American, but he's just, they call him white boy because he's white and green eyes. Okay. I see. Wow. All right. So when do you eventually get to court? How long does that take you? Yeah, a year plus. So first, I'm in this jail for, you know, almost a whole year. I'd say about 11 months I was in Tulkan.

You know, that jail was great. There was really no problems. There was really like no stabbings. There's no murders. Small jail. There was like 250 prisoners that were men. There was like 50 women on the other side. You could pay to go on the women's side to your girlfriend for the day.

So did they date? Did female and male prisoners date? Yes, of course. Did anybody get pregnant? Yes. There were pregnant women there. Yeah, there were people that got married in the jail. People that had kids.

Are people there at this jail waiting for sentencing like you? Yeah, everybody. Okay. Yeah, mostly everybody in the jail is waiting for sentencing. There's a couple of people that already got sentenced and they're there. They're locals. I met some people and I would ask him like, what did you get? Well, I got eight years, but I got the two for one.

I'm like, what's the two for one? There's a law that they just took away in November 2001. They were like, you're not going to get it. And I was like, what? And they were like, yeah. Before then, if you got caught and drug trafficking is like eight years, they'll give you four. So if you get caught with a murder, you kill somebody, you get 25, it's 12 and a half. 15% or 50%.

50%, two for one. So when I got locked up, that was taken away, I didn't have that benefit. What kind of good time? Yeah, that's a good question. What kind of good time can you get down there? Or is it day for day? There's really no good time. Yeah.

Yeah, I got lucky and would send home early because. because I told you about Rafael Correa. He was a president at the time, and he came and actually got rid of all the foreign prisoners that had 50% of their jail time paid. He wanted you out because the jails were starting to get overpopulate. So he came in and tried to clean up the jails. You know, unfortunately for me, I paid almost my whole sentence. But I had, you know, the two escapes and a couple of other things that I got caught with, which would have, you know, made my prison sentence a little bit longer. But I got lucky.

Put a pin in that, fella. We're going to get to that. So basically, drug trafficking started to become so popular out of Ecuador that the jails were just like overcrowding. They were overcrowding. When I got there, there was still people living by themselves. So if you're a mafioso and you got money to kick upstairs, I don't want nobody myself. They're not assigning anybody. You live in your great cell by yourself.

You have your visit and you're chilling. Then eventually it was, there's only two. Now you've got to have at least another one. All right, right. The bed that was taken off, you got to put it back up. You got to have a construction crew come in, build the bed again. So you've got to be rich, rich, rich to live. To live like a king.

Like a king. Yeah. I mean, you can have everything in jail. Yeah. You could, I told you, you could buy guns. You could buy liquor. You could make liquor. You could bring in knives, whatever you want.

This jail, you were at the first year. How long before you saw your lawyer? Um, I got a lawyer pretty much immediately. Okay. How? So just got in contact, you know, people that are there. They're like, hey, this is a good lawyer. And do you have money?

Do you have money? saved up. Yeah, I had money saved up. I also had a lawsuit that was pending that six months down the line. My father had to catch a flight come down because my lawsuit was, it had ended and I was going to get paid, but I needed to sign a couple things and I wasn't there. So my father had to fly. And we got a notary republic to come to the jail and signed everything, stamped it. And then we were able to get that money from the lawsuit as well. Thank God. So you got money. I mean, I don't know what you do as a foreigner if you're completely indigent and you're in a foreign jail. I mean, you're just, you're fucked. Well, I mean, that jail wasn't that bad. So the people that were there, I mean, they showed me the ropes, basically. They were like, listen, this jail's cool. You don't have to worry about anything here. Just, you know, do your time, relax. I know, I bought a store. There was three stores there. I bought one of them. I bought a pool table. So that was generating money. Right. So you're charging people to use a pool table. Of course. You're charging people per

hour to use the pool table. You got a store. So you buy at one price, sell in another. And what's the store sell? Everything, like munchies, you know, chips, cookies, milk, yogurts, anything you could get at the supermarket, we sell in the store. So it's like going to commissary in America. Yeah. And on visit days, we would have empanadas that would get made in the streets. They would bring it inside and I would have like a, you know, like a bakery. You have that wooden, that glass, you know, spot where you have all the empanadas and people just walk up.

There's visits in there. So everybody wants to buy something to eat. Are you getting laid? Of course. Yeah. You got the women in the prison next door. You could go next door or I had a girlfriend that would come and visit me. It's a good way to take your mind off of it.

So it was a great way to escape jail for a minute. How much did you pay your lawyer? The first case, I think it was like $8,000. Okay. So that's a lot of money back then to an Ecuadorian lawyer. Yes, it was a lot of money, but you also got to think about it. You know, I'm getting the American rate. Yeah.

Right. So no, no, no. But your lawyer is fighting for you. Yeah, he's fighting. Okay, so is he a good lawyer? So to me, he was a good lawyer. I think he did a great job. I could have gotten 12 years because the way they wanted to make it out was like I was this other kid's boss that was bringing the drugs.

So they wanted to give me a higher sentence. Yeah. But he fought for the eight years flat. So, you know, eventually I got the eight years flat for that. Is there any kind of mandatory minimum on quantity down in Ecuador the way there is in the U.S.? No. So it's basically just a. mandatory minimum. There's people that have been called with a ton of cocaine and they get,

you know, 12 years. Yeah. So how do they decide? How do they decide how much? I guess it's just how much time to give you. I guess it's maybe just the case, you know, how famous is the case? You know, how much work has this guy put on the streets? How much work has he been sent into the States or Europe? You know, the, but how do they determine what to sentence people with? Because a kilo of heroin and a ton of cocaine are totally different things. I know. And that's the big problem down there. I mean, I was in jail with people that got eight years for one joint. So there's really no, like, their system is horrible. There's a lot of corruption. And if you don't have the money or you don't have the lawyer, you're screwed. Right. Imagine going to jail for eight years for a joint.

Yeah. And I'm in the jail for eight years for a kilo. Yeah. Yeah. So is there any way to pay your way out? Like just in theory, if you had, if you brought your lawyer a hundred grand, can you get me out and get me on a plane. Is that possible? With that money, I'm sure I would have walked out the front door. Okay. Yeah. So what prevents guys like Fito and these high level gang members that are making millions a year in prison? What prevents them from just buying their way out? So it's because they don't want to go out. I'll tell you, they're safer and in a better place inside than outside. So before Fito took over, there was this guy called JL. So this guy was the main guy and ran all the gangs. for you to get close to him in jail is impossible.

Right? These guys, they have their own bodyguards. Everybody's got AK-47s. You can't get close to him. And there's other mobsters inside the same jail that want to take this guy's head off. You know, there's thousands of people that are willing to come in to your block to look for you and kill you

and set you on fire. But inside the jail, you have everyone protecting them. Now, this guy got let go. Hothair went free. and he was in the shopping center in Ecuador with one bodyguard, his wife and his two kids. And he sat down in one of those mess halls like where there's buffets and stuff to eat.

I guess he's just sitting down like waiting and somebody walks up to him and shoots him and just murked him right there on the spot. Wow. How long have you been out at that point? And he had been out a couple weeks. Wow. You know what I mean?

So this is why they don't want to go out. I'm sure Fito, I'm sure Fito used to go out maybe every day at night. Right. No one knows. Right. You know, because they have so much money and so much power, the guards do anything for them. You know?

So they could have houses that they just go kick it in at night. No problem. Man, this guy had, you know, they have roosters. They have fish. They're making, they have pools of fish where they breed these fish inside the jail. Yeah. I don't know if you've seen it on YouTube. I have it.

They have a video where there's like 100 pargo fishes inside of a pool in a jail. So it's a totally different society. It's just, it's its own society. It's crazy. Wow. Okay. So, so you're getting to eight. They wanted 12.

Your lawyer got it down to eight. Yes. No good time, though. No, no good time. Yeah. All right. So after you get, it takes you about a year to get sentenced. So let me just rewind a little bit.

Before I get sentenced, you know, I'm, I start selling coke inside the jail because I want to flip my money. Got a little money from my lawsuit, whatever, you know, buy some cocaine, bag it up. I'm selling Coke. Okay, what year is this? So this is 2002? This is 2002. All right.

So how does the Coke traffic work? How do you get put on? What's the, you know, how much do you buy at a time? And what does that cost back then? Yeah. So pretty much met someone inside the jail. You know, this kid's name was Triviling. We used to call him Triviling, which is goofy in English because he looks just like goofy

from the character. And he had someone that, you know, could have us bring in this Coke. So, you know, paid for it, got the Coke. Cane got it inside the jail. How much does... 50 grams. I can't tell you because I don't remember exactly how much I paid. I'm sure it was dirt cheap, though.

I don't think it was more than $5 or $6 a gram inside the jail. I can't tell you exactly because I don't remember. And are you using dollars yet or is it still pesos? No, it's all dollars. Okay. Ecuador was dollars when I got that. Okay. Yeah.

So, you know, got the 50 grams inside. That day was a visit day. Once the visit brought in those drugs, you know, we got them out of her. She left. She brought it back. smuggled it in through her. She smuggled it in. She left and we started bagging up.

Bagged up all the Coke. You know, we put in this stash, which I had in the wall in the kitchen area. So there was a space where we had to hang up like the kitchen, the long spoon and the thing to get the stuff out of the fryer, you know, when you're frying French fries. So it was this wooden piece on the wall that had two nails in it. If you take one of those nails out and you move the wooden piece, there was a hole right there. Small hole where you could stick your hand in and then it would dump down. That's where I had stashed the drugs. So we do that, start selling, whatever.

Eventually another visit day comes, I get another 50 pack. Comes in, bag it up, stash it in the same spot. Now, we go downstairs because it's almost time for the visits to leave. They leave at 5 p.m. Visits start at 8 a.m. in the morning, and they leave 5 p.m. So like 4.30 is going downstairs. You know, we're at the door with this girl, the one that smuggled the drugs in. We're letting her out when bam, on the other side,

the police start coming in. They're coming in to the patio to where the basketball courts are and everybody's on the ground, everybody to the ground, to the ground. All the visits are, you know, they're taking them out. They're putting everybody on the ground and they're running upstairs.

The cops took control of the whole prison. Now, they asked for everybody to go and walk up to their cells and stand in front of the door. So me and the four other roommates I had, we go upstairs. I lived in the same. second floor and go straight to myself. Now they asked for one of us to stand at the door while they

start searching. They start ripping through everything, you know, mattresses. They take everything out, clothes. And one of the guys comes out, he's like, oh, it's clear. You know, so they go on to the next room. My heart's thumping. Because I know I just got a 50-pack and we just backed it up. And there's, like 300 bags of cocaine in there. And the stash. Yeah. In the kitchen. It's a bomb of cocaine. So another guard, another police officer comes in, Young Buck comes and he's like, did they check this cell already? And I tell him, I was like, yeah, they already checked it. He's like, I'm going to check it again. And he goes in. And he goes straight to the kitchen, just starts rummaging through like pots and pans and looking like at the, we had the, our stove was electric. So he was like,

put it upside down. He's fucking looking at everything. And then he stands back and he starts to look because we had like wooden cabinets, cup, we put like the dishes or we put like cups and plates. So I just see him like scanning everything. And he just starts like grabbing stuff and moving and see if it moved. And he grabbed the wooden piece and it just fell. And as soon as he saw that, he looked at me and he laughed. He just smiled.

He's like, he went and called. He's like, Coronel, colonel. And they come over and they bring everybody inside the cell before they put their hand in. They put it in, he takes out this huge bag. So who's it? Who's it? Nobody said anything. I ain't say anything at the moment.

And, um, it said, they took the drugs, you know? The next day, we got called to the office, director's office. And the director of the jail is like, you know, somebody has to take the fall for this. Who's is it? Nobody's going to take the fall for you. So I had to fast up say it was mine. So all the charges I get. Why didn't you guys split it?

There's four of you. why don't you each take like, you know, 20 grams? I don't think they would allow that anyway. Yeah, no. I doubt they would allow that. And you are, have you even been sentenced at this point? I wasn't even sentenced yet. Wow.

So I get this new charge. This is internal drug trafficking. Why in such a corrupt place are they trying to come after? It's the police. I don't know. I have no idea. Maybe it's just something that they do to train these cadets that they have over in this spot that I told you I arrived at. Yeah.

So I found out eventually, yeah, that's, you know, They do that. They'll come in. They'll search everything. That's what they do. Because they're practicing. Right. That's what they're doing. And if you're small time, they're not worried that you're going to try to kill them. You're not a gang leader. You have no juice. So these are the guys they pick off. They'll let the big fish always go. I mean, the cops not so much. If they're searching the jail and they find, if they find the kilo in there, they find the gun, they're going to make you take your charge. They're going to put another case on you. Okay. You know, it's a lot different than with the guards. The guards are one thing. Guards are just normal people that go and they take care of you in the jail. But the police is a whole other story.

Right. Okay. All right. So, yeah, it's, but it's lawless. Like, it's, it's just like Mexico. There are laws, but whether they choose to enforce them, it's all arbitrary. It's just bad luck. Yeah, that's bad luck.

That's what it was. So get caught with that. You know, I have to say it's mine. And I get to say, new charge, internal drug trafficking. Okay. So now we have to call up a lawyer, find out what's the deal. And he said, look, man, he's like, you're looking at 12 years.

You know, it's a cumulative. I mean, it's like, how do I say? They're going to stack these 12 years on you. Consecutive. Like, it'll run here. They're going to stack these 12 years on you, and you're most likely going to get 8 to 12 on the other one. So he's like, I don't know what you're going to do.

I was freaking out. You know, I'm 20 years old. You know, what am I looking at? Can you get out of here when I'm 40? Yeah. So that was it. You know, the next few months were pretty hard. You know, I was stressed.

That was depressed. And I want to escape. So we have, like I told you, these wooden dressers or things we put on the wall where we could put away, you know, clothes or whatever you have, your toothbrush, your personal items. So this one was actually on the roof, I'll say the roof of our room, like connected to the wall. so we could bring it down and work and cut around, make a whole, try to escape. That's what we wanted to do. Now, our cell had, I think it was like five or six people. One of them was a Spaniard, came from Spain, got caught trafficking.

And he was like 400 pounds, so he couldn't go. One of the kids that was in my cell was Colombian. I don't remember what exactly he bought, but he got something that we could put him to sleep. So it was like little drops. So at night when we get locked in the cell and we do like, you know, hot chocolate or a car, off, you know, cookie, sandwiches, whatever. We would, you know, put this guy to sleep. He'd eat.

We'd all lay on her bunks and wait for him to go to sleep. Once he starts snowing, boom, we're up to work. You know what I mean? So we're working, we're working. We work for like an hour or two. We'll cut it and then we put it back. And we got a lookout. We got somebody watching through the window.

Somebody's out the door with the mirror, you know, see and make sure nobody's coming. And we're working. What are you chisling with? Do you have knives? We have a, like a saw, like, um. Yeah, like a mini saw. Yeah, it's like a mini saw.

Yeah, it's like a mini saw. saw, right? It's like a mini blade, right? What we used to break through, it was like, it was like brick, like you put hot water on it and it basically melts. Yeah. So it just started dissolving because these jails are so old. Yeah. You know, they're probably like over a hundred years old. For sure. So we started throwing like water, hot water on it and it would just dissolve. You start hitting it with like a screwdriver. We paid somebody to bring in a screwdriver, a flathead and we could pick with that. So it's essentially just plaster. Yeah, like really thick plaster. Once we break through and we could put our heads up through the hole, then we see that there's, there's a whole floor of just

metal like rebar. So I could see like all the way to the end of the, of the hallway. Yeah. And it's just all bars. But once you get past those bars, it's just metal, they're like metal sheets. So we could basically just, you know, lift it up and just crawl out under it. Wow. So I was like, all right, let's do this. We keep going, right? We cut through all the bars. It took a while. How long? We couldn't do it every day, either. either. Right. You know, we ran out of drops once.

We had to wait like a week to get more. This guy, you know, is in the cell. We can't do what we want to do. Fat bastard. Yeah. So eventually the cops come in and do a search again. Jesus. They're going through the room.

Boom, boom. They grab this and they start shaking and it just falls. And I'm standing there watching. I'm just like, oh, God. Bad luck. The thing fell. As soon as it falls, they turn around like, oh, you mother. And then they all got the batons.

They start beating the shit out of us because they saw everything was cut. It was ready to go. We're just waiting. We're basically waiting for a rainy day where from our cell there was a window where we could see the guards. What do you call this where they sit in the gun towers? The gun towers on the roof. And we could see them. And when it rains in Tulkan, it rains a lot.

So when it rains like two, three o'clock of the morning, these guys would be face against the glass. This thing would be all foggy. and they'd be knocked out. Right. So I'm like, the next, you know, when it rains, we're going to go

because this guy's sleeping. They're always sleeping. And you could see him. So we were waiting for that. Didn't happen. We get caught. We get the shit beat out of us. You know,

they beat us with batons. They closed the cell door. All of us had to go to separate cells. And pretty much they were like, you know, you're going to get transferred soon. Okay. So they don't give you another charge,

though, at least. Yeah, it's a, and you're trying to escape. But did they give you an escape? More time stacked onto? Yes. That's another, it's another charge. That's another six months in prison.

Okay. Right? So it's like, I don't know, what do they call them here? When you get like different charges put on you. Yeah. Just a different charge? Yeah. All right.

So yeah, I got a different charge. It's six months added to your sentence. Okay. All right. Worth it, though. If you got 20? Of course it's worth it. Yeah.

I'm trying, I'm not trying to kill anybody. You know, I'm just trying to leave. I just want to get out of there. So after that, you know, I think a couple days go by. and I hear the locks in the keys. It's like three in the morning. I'm already panicked. I'm thinking like where are they going to take me?

Bam, I hear the locks. I get up real quick. Put the mirror out and I look and I see, here come the Ninja Turtles, all suited up. You know, black mask, black helmet, the best, all that. Boom, they come straight to the door, open up. Castro, let's go. They take me out, tell me get on my knees.

They put toilet paper around my face and then duct tape it. So I got, you know, I can't see anything. Boom, they walk me out. They throw me on the back of the pickup truck again at like 233 in the morning. Where are we going? Guido. I'm going back. Yeah.

So we get there in the morning, you know, as we're getting there, we stop for breakfast first. It was already sunrise. It had already come up. We stopped for breakfast. We ate something. While you're blindfolded? Yeah, well, they took it off. Okay.

Yeah. They do that just in case I try to escape or someone tries to come and rescue you, you can't see anything. But once we got to where we ate, it was like down the block from the prison. They cut it off. I see. And they invited me inside to eat. So we sat down, we ate breakfast, and I could see the prison from where I was. And after we ate, you know, they took me inside the prison. There's a head guard waiting for me and all his guards there. They're like, yeah, this guy tried to escape. And they're like, oh, yeah, all right, take him to the hole. And when I go to walk up, there's just all guards lined up. The same.

stairs. The hole was like four floors up. And there's just all guards up the steps. Just kicking you, hitting you, batons. I'd fall, I'd trip, get back up, keep running. And they're just yelling at you. Like, go, go, go. Whoa. Crazy. And then I get to this gate where I can't go anymore. And then a couple of them walk up and they open up the gate. And it's like a, like a horror movie. This long hallway. The lights like flickering on and off. It smells bad. Cold. And I get there and they open up the door inside. I guess they were still sleeping. It's like pitch black. And I hear somebody say, turn the lights on, turn the lights on, because they're opening up the door. And they put the light on. It's like they have to connect like these wires. I remember I saw the, the z from the, you know,

the connection. And then the light came on and I looked around like, what the hell is this? Like it was like so hot and humid. The walls were sweating. Right. There was like five or six people on the floor. There were six cement beds. Right. So they were stacked up like bunk beds. And then I hear white boy? And I look

and it's not Alex but this other kid his name was Alex as well. He was from Queens. And I look at it and he's like, what's up bro? He's like American. I'm like yeah. He's like oh bro, come over here. So I go, I sit down. I'm like bro, I'm so fucking happy to see you.

You can't imagine how happy I am. And he's like, what do you hear for? So it was like, I tried to skate from Tulkan. They brought me here. He's like, oh, you know, I had a relationship with the psychiatrist upstairs. You know, I got her to bring me in a police uniform. And when they were doing their shift change, he walked out with them. And he walked through two doors until he got to the third one.

He walks out that third door. And then the other shift is coming in and they see him. They tackle him to the ground. Yeah. Crazy. Almost made it. They beat the living hell. out of them. The kid was all black and blue in the face, arms, legs, because they love to beat you down there. So that's, that's really what you get fucked up down there for is if you try to escape. Yeah. So what else gets you sent to the hole in a prison like that? Stabbing, extortion. If you're extortioning somebody, they snitch on you, boom, you're going to the hole. Stab somebody, you're going to the hole. Fights, they don't really fight down there. Down there, it's, you know, you want to fight, it's going to be a knife fight. Yeah. You know, you're going to get stabbed up real quick. You know, if the situation's a lot more serious, maybe you're someone that has some weight to your name. You know, you know, you know,

You know, you're going to get shot because they're not going to mess around. So the guards will have you killed down there? I've seen guards open doors for you to get killed. Right. Yeah. They're corrupt. And that way, yes. A guard won't kill you.

I saw a guard get killed on B block. What happened there? He took one of the prisoners' wives, basically just, you know, followed her, you know, was, you know, talking to her. And then she ended up going with him. Wow. And this guy actually had the balls to come and walk the yard. and the person he took, you know, his girl, he stabbed him like 30 times and killed him, right?

Right on the yard. But you witness this? Yeah. In front of everybody. Oh, shit. Yeah. And then once he was on the ground, he had a vest on, but he ran up on him and just started sticking him like in the neck.

And then when he fell to the ground, he lifted up the vest and just finished them. You know, we had a soccer game where my mother was there present on a visit day. You know, someone got Merck there playing soccer. They got caught an elbow. the other kid threw another elbow. They stood up like they were going to fight. You know, one pulled out a shank. The only pulled out a real like steak knife.

But the one with the shank that was like a like a ice pick, stuck them first right in the heart. The kid just dropped that. Yeah, in front of his, it's front of everybody. Yeah. Insane. Yeah. So there's really no respect for life.

Animals down there. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So what prison is this in? So that's in Ex Penal Garcia Moreno. Right. Yeah.

That's the prison that I ended up in and did the rest of. my years there. All right. So now you're here. This is your home. Yeah, this is my home for the next. I didn't know how many years. So when did you finally get your sentence?

So I was taken back and forth for my first trial for the international drug trafficking twice. Yeah. So they took me back to Tulkan because that's where the case started. And we had, I believe it was two, two times I went for that. And when I came back, I already came back with my sentence the second time. They gave me a flat. Yeah. So I was happy about the eight still, you know.

But you're still fighting the internal drug trafficking charge. So just so happens that that case is still going and I'm still involved with this girl I met in Tulkan. She went to visit me. You know, we got serious. She would come and visit me all the time. When you're fighting a case, a drug case down there, are there like plea deals the way there are from the prosecutors in the states? When I, I never got any offers. Okay.

I mean, I don't think they plead deal down there. Like, can you, so did you take your case to trial? Yeah, I went to trial. I had a lawyer, you know. Okay. I ended up, you know, trying drugs, pasta bass to start smoking it. My lawyer was like, listen, you start smoking this stuff, get skinny, look like a drug addict, because that's where we want to pull this off as, as you're a consumer.

You know, you have all these drugs because you bought them, you bought a lot to have it once. And this is yours. You're a drug addict. And, you know, you're not. selling this stuff. Right. You know? So he told you to get, become a drug out of it.

Of course. And did you become one? So that's what we did. I started smoking base and then got hooked on it. You lose a bunch of weight? Lost a ton of weight. Yeah. Wow.

Crazy. Damn. Tell us about base. What is Base? Bace is basically the garbage from cocaine. So I don't know if you know when they cook it, you know, Coke rises, everything that falls and stays at the bottom of the pan is the garbage, which is La Vase. Yeah.

And that makes crack look like alkaline water. Yeah, pretty much. It makes it look like nothing. Yeah. Because this is strong stuff. Yeah. No, this is this will mess you up permanently. Yeah.

Were there a lot of Base heads? Yes. What do you call them? Like crackheads. Basucheros. Yeah. Basucheros. So I imagine Ecuadorian prisons are just filled. Filled with basqueiros.

And these are people, you know, most of them, I'd say 80% of them, don't have anyone that's going to visit. them. You know, they have big sentences, so they might not go home. And then some of them just don't care because they have no one on the outside. They become a basuquito and then, you know, you want to hit somebody, you know, give me 500. You could have a body for 500 back in the day. So if you need somebody killed, you just go to a basucero. They'll take care of it. I mean, not all of them, but there was plenty of them. Yeah. They don't care if they're ever, ever, ever go home. Exactly. Okay. So what is, and they're selling basucato. They're making a lot of money.

Yeah, there's places inside the jail where you could go. Like there was a cell that was converted into a store. And this guy's name was Crazy Freddy. He was in B-block. So everyone called him Loco Freddy. You would go straight to his store, go up and he'll give you five packs for a dollar. There were the biggest packs inside the jail. And all the guards and everybody in the jail knew he was selling.

But that's what the guy does. Yeah. You know, and he's been in jail for the past 20 years. You know, and that's what he does. He's got his store and he sells drugs. And he pays the guards. Everybody gets their cut. You know, head guard gets 10.

Each guard gets a buck and they all live happily. Because remember, like this guy, Freddie, there's other people that sell drugs. You know, back of the day, it wasn't too many, like, gangs or mafias. But it was like the Wild Wild West. Everybody's looking out for themselves. You know, there might be this gang. Yeah. You know, we were a gang outside.

We used to rob banks and brings trucks, things like that. Five or six of them, they'll gang up inside and be like a tight click. But there wasn't gangs like there is now. Okay. So when did the hierarchy of gangs start to form? Did you see that towards the end of your stretch? I didn't see that. Okay.

The people that are in charge of the gangs now in Ecuador, I saw when they came to the jails, right? When they were in prison for the first time, like, this guy, Fito got locked up in 2008. I was there, right? But they weren't big names back then. How did they become big names? So they became big names because these are people that have gangs outside by the seaports. in Guayaquil, Machala, Vince, you know, all these places.

And they control them. And their gangs are still outside the streets. So from inside the jail, they control everything. Yeah. So, and how did they rise to prominence? Explain how they became so rich and powerful. So Mexicans started getting locked up. I'm talking about Mexicans as like drug lords.

People with laying a thousand keys, two thousand keys. And once these people get into the jails, you know, they're looking for the big timers inside. You know, the big guys, the guys that are running blocks. you know, guys that are making four or five grand a day. So they look for these people. And then obviously they're going to talk to them. I can get these drugs. You know, we could get connected.

We've got connections with the cartel. You want to make money. We need the ports. You guys got the gang and the power outside. And then you control how many thousands of people in here? Right. Let's put everybody on drugs. Let's get all these keys in here.

How many kilos can we smuggle? How many guards can we get on payroll? You know, that's the way it works. So really it all came from Mexican cartel. the power structure in Ecuador now. Yes. Now it's basically run like the cartels were run back in the day. Remember when Mexico was insane. There was people getting heads chopped off, thrown over bridges.

Ecuador is like that. Yeah. So the Ecuadorian gangs are the ones who have access and control of the ports. And then they're supplied by the Mexicans cartels who are getting it from Colombia, which is so crazy. Crazy. They are actually bigger than the Colombians inside of Colombians. inside of Colombia and Ecuador.

It's crazy how they just took over, right? It's great. There's so much money. But when you were locked up, it was basically just freelancers. Freelancers. Everybody's selling, people making liquor.

What was the key to come up as a drug dealer in the prison back then? You got to know the right people. So you had to have the best connections on the outside? No, in the inside. Because remember, say, like,

I used to sell liquor, right? But a white boy from America You know How am I selling liquor? Why? Because I'm connected with the right people You know, because I know people on the inside You know, and they're cool with me And so nobody's messing with me But if I didn't know the right people

I'm not going to be able to sell liquor They might run up in your cell and take everything you got You saw the pictures I got I got a TV, I got my PlayStation We're making liquor You know, not everybody could have that inside So tell us about your liquor operation So I mean pretty much

10 pounds of shit sugar, some yeast. We get the guards to bring in, you know, pineapple, oranges, anything that add some flavor. We'll throw it in the bucket, maybe under my bed or in a different cell. And we just let it ferment for, you know, eight to ten days. Then we had the contraption where we put it inside, let it boil up, you know, all the vapors rise, basically like making moonshine. Yeah. And you could sell those bottles for $20 every two-liter bottle of Coke. How much to make that whole that? How much does all the processing?

The ingredients? Everything. You mean the cost? Yeah. You're very low. Okay. Probably like 30 bucks. Total.

And you can sell one bottle for... For one bottle for 20. You'd get like four bottles out of each bucket. Okay. Yeah. And then you could cut it down because it comes out pure. So you throw some water in it. Right.

You know, out of four bottles, you might get five, five and a half. Okay. So you're making how much? On a visit day, you can make $100. Yeah. You know, I mean, for back. then and inside of jail is good. Yeah, in Ecuador.

A hundred bucks goes along with. And then if you're doing this three or four times a week, you're making dough. Right. Okay. So that was what you stuck with? Was that your main hustle? That was my hustle. Yeah, for a little while.

Once I got caught with, I got a tunnel. I got caught. I got sent to F Block. Oh, yeah. So tell me, before we get into that, yeah. What did, you know, your sentence, when you took it to trial, did that work? Did they buy that you? were just a drughead, a drug addict?

So, yeah. So I pretty much became a drug addict, lost a ton of weight, took it to trial, went there. And the girl I was seeing in Tulkan at the time, she had an uncle that was a judge in the Supreme Court where I'm taking my case. So as you can imagine, spoke to her. She got in contact with him.

You know, some money was paid to him, and he was able to take that off. How much money? it was like eight another 8,000. So if you had came in there without money, you're beat. But if me,

I had like hundreds of thousands to my name back then. If I had gone in there, I could have walked out. When I walked in the jail, like the small jail in Tulcan and you had 100 grand on you, you would have walked out to jail

because he would have talked to a couple guards be like, listen, I got 50 here, 50 outside. Yeah. You know, just walk me out and I'll take you straight to the money. You would have probably been gone. Because eight grand paid off a judge.

Yes. Supreme Court. charge like like like top level you know wow okay so he got it reduced to he got it taken away like expunged because i was a drug addict okay so so then you're left with my eight years flat okay so that's how you got the internal drug charge taken taken away yes boom so we can do eight yeah sounds like a party okay uh and you're still a young guy yeah okay so so you're in now you're in prison you know at least how much time you got to do. Did you ever have a knife on you? Did you ever feel? Always. Yeah. Knives, guns. I mean, you could have anything inside. But what did you have? Well, I had a knife and a gun.

What kind of gun did you have? A 38. You could have it into the cell. Yeah, you keep it in the TV. I mean, it's not something you walk around with every day, but you have them. A lot of people have them. It's a normal thing. How much did you pay for? 300. That's what you pay for a gun in America. I mean, this is probably stolen gun. I mean, I don't know where they get it from. But it's in the. It's in the. Inside. I got it from another prison or inside. Okay. And when do you bring the guns out? When there's a riot. Okay. Everybody's gunned up.

You remember the first riot? Yeah, I lived through three of them. All right. So the first one, I believe it was 2003. It was so they could get back the two-for-one law. So what they did was it was a visit day. You know, all these thousands of visitors came in the prison. And what they did was they kidnapped the guards at the door.

So when the guard opened up the door to let the visit in, after enough visits had come in, they walked up to the gate and they were just waiting for the guard to open up for the new visits to come in. And the chosen ones walked down just, you know, gun to his waist, boom, give me the keys. Come on, let's go inside. And they just kidnap you. What's the guard going to do? He's not going to do anything. So he just froze up. You know, they bring him inside.

They lock the gates. And then it's on. Everybody in the jail knows when it's going to happen. You know, everybody that somebody knows. So you know, everybody's, you know, getting ready. Everybody's taking out their guns, knives, machetes, because when it's a riot, it's not only, you know, everybody says it was for the two for one, but people are going hunting. Yeah. You know, because it's, you know, this guy hates this guy.

You know, this group doesn't get along with this group. We're going into this block. We want to go steal. We want to rob. I need a TV. I need a fridge. Who's got one? So what's your goal as a guy who's a non-affiliate, a foreigner?

You're just trying to survive. survival man that's it so do you stay in your cell when it's popping off with your gun ready no i mean i knew i knew a bunch of people that were connected well connected inside the jail so i was able to walk outside plus in a riot you can't see anybody's face everybody's masked up like a t-shirt holes in the eyes and boom boom boom and everybody's just masked up you can't tell who's who's anywhere and there's no lights people are walking around with guns people are walking with knives in their hands, you know, after they, they took over the guards and they kidnapped that one guard, they had these, you know, the metal barrels that they used like trash cans down there,

threw them all up against the gates and they lit everything on fire. Like, they had a bunch of garbage in it, they lit it. So it would, like, weld the doors shut. Wow. So this way they couldn't get in. So they had all the garbage cans up against the doors. Everything's lit up. Who's the orchestrating this?

Everybody. I mean, it's like it's all the top guys in the jail. They'll get together, you know, let's do it. this. Let's do the riot. Let's pop it off while the visits are inside. So this way they can't come inside and harm us. Right. Because there's a bunch of civilians there's kids. There's women and there's everything. So and they make a call to Congress saying we want the two for one back? Yeah. It's basically there in negotiation all day. But I mean, never really anything came out of it. What happened? What happened during the riot? Well, the riots, like I told you, it was just, you know, it was like hunting season.

You'd walk by a cell. You'd see a dead body. And you'd walk by an other. cell, this one would be lit on fire. I mean, it was craziness. You'd see people running down the hall with like a TV. They're breaking walls, trying to get into maximum security. You know, inside maximum where there's like white collar crimes. Like say, like where the president, Lucio Gutierrez was, they have everything in there. Right.

You know, they have big screen TVs, gray furniture. They live like in a hotel. Right. Refrigerators. So. Also, they don't even put. dangerous people in maximum. No, no, that was a maximum for white collar

crimes. Okay, I see. Like political people, white collar. Now, the supermax is for different kind of people. Right. And it's a different area of the jail. But this part is where they keep like upper level traffickers. Say this guy was a copo and he paid, you know,

50 grand to just go in and stay in this block. Nobody's going to bother you. Right. Because it's separated from general population. Yeah. That's where I want to be. But they started breaking down the walls. Wow.

And then once they broke through, they start shooting from that side this way. And then these guys into maximum, everybody's shooting until they ran out of bullets. It was probably like two days, you know, a gun battle. And then no more bullets. They're not shooting anymore. All right, let's keep breaking. Bloom, boom. They're just breaking, breaking, breaking until we got through.

And then everybody's going in. I'm masked up. I took a fridge out, put it in my cell. And we're just rummaging through everything. What happened to the guys in maximum? A couple got killed. A couple got hurt. You know, some were getting extorted.

I mean, I'm not, did some guys just say, take it when they got through? No, everybody said just take it. Yeah. Yeah, when you get there. We give up. Yeah, pretty much because the people that are in there are not murderers. Yeah. You know, these are upper level traffickers that, you know, they're not killing anybody, but they just want to live well inside the game.

So some of them got shot to death. Some of them got stabbed. You know, some people, nothing happened because they just gave up. Yeah. And some people, they knew. You know, some people are known. So, you know, they didn't get touched. But it was insane.

Did you have to shoot? Do you have to bust your gun? No, I never shot. That riot, I never shot anybody. We were just looking for stuff to take. Basically going in, you know, we're taking, oh, look at this guy. He's got a great fridge. I need it.

Fucking took it out. Put it in myself. What's the matter with you? Like, you've gotten in so much trouble already. You're living well from your liquor business. Like, why did you feel like you had to join in the mayhem? Because that's what everybody's doing. I mean, if you're not, I mean...

It's like a mass psychosis. But if you're not doing it, I'm like, look at this guy. He's locked up in his cell. what's wrong with this kid? You know what I mean? Like you gotta be part of, you gotta be in the... So you look weak

if you just stay in your cell. Yeah. So you're staying in your cell, you're weak. Yeah. Okay. And that could maybe open, open you up to...

Maybe someone will come to my door and start shooting through the window. I mean, who knows. Right. So it's safer to be out. It's safer to be out and about. I see. This way nobody...

Because everyone knows where you live. You know, you know I live in cell nine. Maybe you want to do something to me. You're going to go to myself. But you're not going to find me because I'm a, I'm cruising the town inside, you know, masked up.

How many people got killed during this riot? I couldn't say it was probably like, I would say like 15 to 20 maybe the first riot, something like that. And that's light. Yeah, that was light. Sometimes hundreds of people get killed. Compared to now, yeah, now it's hundreds. Okay. And how did that end?

How did that finally end? With the police and the National Guard, bum rushing us, you know, throwing gas inside the jail, which is crazy. Okay. Yeah. Did anybody get new charges from the riot? I would say probably the guys that committed the kidnapping to the guard because they do it, you know, no mask on, nothing. But they don't care because these are people that will take those charges.

Right, okay. And the guard didn't get killed. No, they released the guard. They released them. That's nice of them. Yeah, yeah. There was even guards like guards that were cool with, you know, with everybody. And we'll be like, listen, we're going to strap this gas tank on you.

And we're going to take you out to the patio because there was cameras. You know, the film crews were up on the mountain, like filming down. helicopters rolling around above. You know, so we had the guards like crucified like this, like on a weight bench with a gas tank on them. We got people with gas tanks with the flames coming out. You know, I mean, just like insane. This is all footage that you can look up and you can find.

Yeah. Oh, I imagine now everybody's got smartphones. They're making TikTok videos out of this. No, now it's, yeah. When I was there, the phones didn't have cameras. Right, right. If not, it would have been all over there. But now you see stuff still.

Now I can send to you. Yeah, I can see. you know, the block. I could see the people outside. I could see my boy cutting up bricks of weed that they bring in and they're all compressed. So he has to get his knife and cut him up. He sends me pictures. Yeah. Smoking a J in the cell. Yeah. Okay.

So and you were in three of those riots? Three of them. What was the worst one, do you think? I would say the third one was the worst one. All the jails united. Because where I was, general population was three blocks. It was B, C, and D.

Then we had A for the white collars, which was the maximum that we broke into in the first one. Then we had E-block, which was for like, for like the scum of the jail, for like the pedophiles and all the chomos, whatever. They all lived in there. And then there was jail three, which was another part of the jail.

And then there was F-block maximum security, like the supermax where all the killers and, you know, the tougher people went. Right. That third riot, the whole jail united. And you were walking around. You would see dead bodies on the floor. It was just crazy.

What do you mean united? Like everybody, all the walls were broken. Right. So like, everything was connected. Everything was connected. All the wings were connected. All the wings or the entire jail. We even took over the offices.

The offices got lit on fire. You know, all the files and everything, people that were in prison there, they lit everything on fire. The guards get killed? No, I don't think they killed any guards. There was a bunch kidnapped inside, so they wouldn't come in, you know, and try to hurt us.

So we had, I think there was like 10 or 15 guards, and it was crazy. Are there gun towers in these prisons? Yes, all over. And do they take shots at you? Like in the States, if you're stabbing somebody, they'll shoot to kill you. They don't do that down there. No, they don't do that.

Why? They'll sit there and watch it. They only shoot to kill if they see you like escaping. You're like trying to jump over the wall or something, then they'll shoot you. Right. That's the only thing they care about. That's the only thing. And is it just because they're lazy.

This is Latin America. They don't give a shit. Listen, I would say it's because they're scared, man. I mean, they got to live there. They're living there more than us. Yeah. At the end of the day, we're there chilling, doing whatever we got to do paying our time. They got to take care of us.

And then they got to deal with all these killers and all these bad people. They got to walk light. Because they come inside, they know, you know, they know somebody will kill you for nothing. Right. But they don't get killed in the riots maybe because the inmates need them for the drug trafficking. We need them also for safety. Yeah. You know?

Did they work? Did you know of any instances where the guys? guards were working for the gangs in there? Well, a lot of guards work for different people. A lot of individuals. I mean, the guards are the ones that bring in everything. They bring in the guns, the drugs, anything you could think of. You just got to pay them, that's all.

So that last third riot was crazy. There was the worst riot. There was the most dead bodies I've seen. The smell was horrible. And it was just fires everywhere. No lights. They cut off the electricity on us after like the fifth or six day. So there was no electricity.

There was really no food. for a couple days. The drugs ran out. It was horrible. Did you ever get shot or stabbed? I got stabbed. Not in a riot, but that was when I got caught with the tunnel.

You never got shot at? No, I didn't get shot at, yes, but I didn't get shot. What was that about? I mean, it's just, it's in a riot? Yeah, it's in a riot.

People are shooting. You don't know what that was going on. You got to shoot back, you know, one side's shooting at another, and you're with your team. I mean, it's just... So you're in a riot? in Ecuador, you shoot until the bullets run out.

Of course. And then later on, the guards bring in more bullets. Yeah. The guards will bring in everything. That's the only reason the jails are filled with that, with drugs, with guns, knives. Did you have a vest on? Like, did you ever go out? No, there was some people with vest there.

I never had a vest. I believe on the third riot, they got the vest because we took over, like, the entire jail and the spot where the guards would sleep and rest. And there was vest there. So I saw some people walking around with vest, which was shocking. to me, but yeah. Were there any foreigners, like real white people? Me.

Was there anybody that looked like and acted like me? Oh, yeah, of course, yeah. That didn't want to participate, that just wanted to fucking sit it out. Yeah, I know this kid. He lives currently in North Carolina. His name is Danny. We call them Neveeve because he's white as snow. And, yeah, he was neutral.

And, but in a riot, what is a neutral guy like Danny? He just stays in the cell all there. Yeah, and just praise? He just praised. He's just hidden, basically. Not in his cell, but in someone else's cell, probably just chilling. Hey, somebody, like, let me stay here, please. All right, you got it.

Just go inside. Don't make any noise. Wow. That's it. Imagine the terror. He hears the screams and the bullets. The thing is that you can lock your own cell. You have your own locks.

So I had my own lock. So I'd walk out of my cell. I closed the door and I put my lock on it. Right. And I had my key on me. Okay. So you can lock up your cell. It's just if they try to get in there for some reason, they could break the door down

probably. But nobody's really going to do that unless there's a good reason. Yeah. Because they got other, they got bigger beefs than Nieve. Yeah. Wow. That's so you could just push somebody into your cell, kill him, lock the door. During a riot, yes.

Dismember them. Yes. What was like the wildest shit you heard about happening one of those riots? Like blew your mind. In F Block and the Supermax, somebody got murdered and left in the cell. And they cut his hand off. So when you walk by the cell, they left his hand just on the front door. And so you walk.

Everybody would walk by like, oh, did you walk by Cell 3? Yeah, yeah, I saw it too. Everybody saw it. The guy was just dead inside. Like the pool of blood was coming out. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Did you have to go like to therapy when you got home eventually? So, yeah. My parents thought, you know, that would be a good idea. I didn't want to go to therapy because I just think, you know, they try to drug you with pills. And I didn't really want to know anything about, you know, any chemical drug. Yeah. I just, you know, promise the Lord when I got out, please help me get out. I'll never go back to any of this.

Yeah. You know, I just want to stay straight narrow and just live a good life. Okay, okay. So you got straightened out in there? Yeah. I don't want to go back to jail. Yeah. What therapist do you go into?

I got a better help. It's online. They've never tried to drug me. I just, I have a friend of mine that lives in the Bronx. He went to therapy and they started giving him pills. Oh, he went to a psychiatrist. He went to a psychiatrist. Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, I heard that story and I was like, I don't want it. But did you have like, like, PTSD when you got out. I mean, of course. I mean, I have it till this day. You know, anywhere I go in. I'm always aware of my surroundings. You know, I feel like I could read people a lot better from all the things I lived inside the jails.

You know, like you can feel like when something's going to happen. You can feel attention or you can read people's attitudes. Things like that. So I just think it's, you know, it's helped. You know, all the trauma I've been through, I think it's made me a better person. I know how to read people. I know how to, you know, maneuver through certain situations. So I just feel like it helped me.

Yeah. You know, I try not to think about the negativity and, you know, all the bad things that happen to me and things like that. I just feel it should make me a better person. Yeah. Well, it sounds like you pretty much escaped unscathed except for getting stabbed. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. Okay. So let's get into that. Like, tell us about this tunnel. So on the second riot, we started making the tunnel. We knew this riot was going to be long because it was projected to go over a month. Okay. Okay. So how long in advance do you know before the riot kicks up?

Probably like a week. Okay. Yeah, something like that. So you and who else are trying to tunnel? Just the cellmates. Okay. You know, we're doing the tunnel. Yeah.

One of the guys was a Colombian. He was, he already had prior knowledge of doing a tunnel. So he's like, this is what we're going to do. Instead of going through the floor, we went through the side wall. So the sidewall is between one cell to another. They're about like three and a half, four feet wide. So this way you could go through the side wall. sidewall and then go down.

Down the shaft. Right. So what's your plan if you escape? Like what are you thinking if you actually successfully get out? So we would have gotten out. I would have taken a car, hopefully to Columbia or any other country. Yeah. At the time, I was thinking just get to an embassy and get a passport and just leave.

Yeah. And they probably would have too. Yeah, most definitely. Yeah. I lost my passport. I'm American. Yeah. How you doing?

And, you know, help me out. Uh-huh. Right. You know, a young white kid, I'm pretty sure they would have helped me out. Did you write, were your parents like writing letters to like diplomats in America or, you know, like the embassy in Ecuador? Like, hey, this is an American citizen. He's suffering, you know, grave. Yeah.

Like, can you extradite him? Can you come to some kind of agreement to where he can do his time in the States? That's funny. That's funny. You asked that because when I was arrested and the embassy went down there. So I'm going to rewind. When my mother spoke to, spoke with the embassy. she said she wanted to go down to see me

when she knew it was real 100% what was happening. And they were like, listen, you can't go over there. It's crazy. And there's all the guerrillas over there. Yeah. You know, we're going to go there and we're going to take a helicopter. We're going to go see how it is.

And then we'll let you know. And then my mother calls me and tells me, she's like, my God, where are you? I just spoke to this lady. She told me it's like warfare down there. Where did you go? So the embassy takes a helicopter, you know,

They get to Tulkan. They come to see me and they call me out. I come out, dress, you know, normal, chain, watch, sneakers. I remember the lady's face. When I walked in, she started looking at me. She's like, you don't look too bad. And I was like, nah. I was like, why say that?

She was like, you look great. I was like, thanks. So getting back to your question, I wanted to get extradited back to the States. Yeah, yeah. I was like, yeah, I don't want to be here. I was like, my family's, you know, 5,000 miles away. Yeah. Is there any way I could get extradited?

I did back. And she was like, sure, no problem. We'll, we'll, uh, we'll, uh, we'll, uh, we'll see what we could do. And is this, uh, the lady that took the helicopter over? Is this an American? She's an American. Okay. She works with the embassy. I see. And she came with two bodyguards. All right. And, um, she pretty much told me, you know, we'll do whatever we can to help you out and get you back to the States. Right. My mother was like, all right, great. You know, she was happy as well. You should have been like, I, I, I, I, they're butt fucking me all day. This is terrible. But you were, yeah, you were not, that wasn't the case. Now, now, Maybe if you've been in prison in Quito, that's like a refugee situation.

Yeah, yeah, it was different. But they just denied it? So America was going to let me come back and Ecuador didn't allow it. Yeah, ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, you got to get to Columbia because America and Columbia are super linked. They probably, you probably could have been like, hey, I escaped prison, you know, like, let me go back to the state.

You probably could have turned yourself in. even to like the DEA there. Maybe, yeah. But your plan was to go to an embassy in Columbia. Yeah, that was the plan or plan B was, you know, travel to Uruguay and just go hide out there. Right. Do you have family there?

Yeah, we got family over there. Right, right. And just figure out how to get home. Yeah. Okay, so you're tunneling. So, yeah, we're tunneling, you know. Day by day, like I said, you know, this building is like 180 years old.

Mm-hmm. Using water. This block just disintegrates. We have huge sink. inside the cell. So as we take chunks off, it's going to the sink, somebody's working it, you know, crushing it down with the hot water on. Yeah.

And it's just disappearing. Bigger chunks we'd have to save, you know, like I put under my bed, and we take out at night during the riot when there wasn't too many people around. And we take it outside and break it down in these huge watch sinks that were in the patio and they would dissolve better. And there was bigger holes like drains. Yeah. But we could throw the stuff down.

Like all that this rock would basically turn into dirt. Yeah. And it was just disintegrating. So, you know, after, I don't know, a good 30. days, we were, we were, we were ready to go. But just what happens, the riot is going to stop. We get word. So we have to work fast to cover it up. Yeah. You know, we got to cover back this hole on the wall. You know, we got to find the way to get newspaper, you know, plaster it up. And then we throw the fridge right back up against this hole. So when the guards come in, you know, because I had

multiple searches after that. Yeah. Like even after the riot, when all the police and everybody comes in, you know, everybody's out on the patio and boxers. Face on the ground. Yeah. All these guards are jump. They would run all over you. They're jumping on you. They're running two, three hundred cops.

Everybody's on the ground. They're stomping you with these boots. And you got boxers on. Like boom, boom, boom, boom. Yeah, they're just running on top of the prisoners. Just for like a sick, sick game. Yeah. Just for fun.

And then they're checking everybody sells. So first floor sells. They come through with the metal bar and they're starting the bang on the ground. Because, you know, first floors. everybody wants to make a tunnel so they're checking all the floors they never checked the wall they would move the fridge bang on the two

squares that I had there you know and they'd bang it out and they just put the fridge back yeah and the hole was right there on the wall wow yeah how far were you from the escape we were probably I would say we were past the last wall

the main wall I calculated that the next time we go we would probably need two to three hours more work and we're popping up right where the dirt is straight, you know, free. And you're outside of the walls? We're outside of the walls. Holy shit. And did you have a car prepared or?

Yeah. Someone that was going to go with us would have had that car. Okay. And you're still financing this by how? I mean, there's really no financing there. I mean, it's just, but I mean, how are you putting your money in your pocket at this point? Is it still your liquor business? Oh, yeah.

My mother, my father. Yeah. People would send, send you money or. Okay. But you weren't selling drugs or anything like that at that point. At this point, I wasn't selling drugs. Okay. How far into your stretch is this?

This is April 2005. I get caught with the tunnel. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So you're in about four or five? Yeah. How do they eventually catch the tunnel?

So a big guy starts pressing me because one of the guys that lives with me tells someone about the tunnel. And one of the mafios who starts pressing me, he wants myself. He wants out. He wants to come. Yeah. I'm like, listen, man, you can come, right? We'll set it up for a day where you can come with us.

All right? Maybe we'll go, we'll set something. He's like, no, man, I want to sell. You know? And this guy had a bunch of little hitters with him. Yeah. And eventually it just gets ugly, right? We have a big discussion.

You know, he threatens my life. And I tell him, basically, you know, it is what it is, bro. If we're going to die, we're going to die here. That's it. Wow. And, um, so you're ready to kill him over the cell. Like, you're, I mean,

I'm not ready to kill him, but I'm ready to defend myself. Yeah. You know, this is my cell. I'm doing my thing. You know, I already told him I can help you out if you want.

Maybe we could set something up differently, but, you know, I'm not budging. You know, and plus I already got years in, and I know a lot of people there. Yeah.

You know, I'm not no regular American that just got locked up there. I run with the big guys. So I tell him, you know, it's not happening. He didn't like it.

He lived in a different block and pretty much he put a hit on me. So a visit day comes. I'm in the cell with my girl. I go to go use a different bathroom because I had to take a shit. I'm not going to shit in my own cell. So I'm like, I'll be right back. I put the lock on and I go to a different cell where there's nobody there. I go in, boom.

Before I walk in, I see one of these guys hitters in my block. But it's visit day and normally nothing happens. on visit day. Visit day is really respected. There's a bunch of kids, women. You know, it's really respected. You got to be careful. But this guy, I saw him.

He saw me and I just went about my business, right? Because I'm like, it's a visit day. I go into the cell. On visit day, there's so much noise and people there that I close the door and I'm in the back of the cell doing what I got to do. And when the door opens,

I can hear all that, the music, the women, you know, the shouting, just the noise. Why didn't you lock the door? It didn't have a lock because this is a cell where everybody goes to smoke bassook. Right. They sold the lock on the door. There's no lock. So I can't lock from the inside.

Right. So pants down, doing my business, and I hear the door open. And I get up to look because there's like a wall like to hear. So I stretch out to look and he's coming in already with the knife. Dude, I get up. I just pull on my pants immediately. and I just jump at him. Jump at him, I grab him.

You know, he stabs me once over here. We're tussling. You know, I'm trying to get him out the door. He's trying to get me back. Because I know, if I get back into the bathroom, I'm dead. Once I get into this in the little area that's the bathroom, I would have died. Why? Because it's just, it's slippery there.

Yeah. It's, I can I tell you know, like the bathroom has like, how do you call it? Baldosa. I don't even know how to say it I don't know You've been locked up And in America so long You forgot your English

Yeah I forgot my English The tiles Yeah The tiles were wet Okay Right So I know if I get back Into the bathroom

I'm gonna slip and I'm dead Yeah he's gonna get on top He's gonna get on me And forget it So I keep pushing We're tussling He stazs me three times Where?

Right in the stomach And we tussle And I break them through the door Bloom We go out And then everybody's there and and this guy runs with the knife i got a white t-shirt on and it's all bloody leaking okay so how big was the knife um i would say it was like this big blade okay um so that's that's like this

people that's a big blade i'm stabbed up i'm on the ground there's people screaming you know i'm good i think i'm good so i go to like get up and walk away but i look down and then you know i've always had a stomach and thank god i had it yeah because the doctor told me if you didn't have that that gut you got, you would have been dead. Oh, so I'm dying. So I look down and you know how grease, I don't know if you've ever been stabbed

or if you've seen it. I got stabbed, the grease and my belly was coming out in little balls. Yeah. It was coming out on my stomach and I was like, and I like dropped.

I dropped in one of my boys came, another one of my boys came. They picked me up. They rushed me out to the main door. Okay. Now the guards pick me up and they're rushing me out to the front and the whole time they're like,

who did this, who did this? Tell me before you die. And I was like, I didn't say anything. I was just looking at my hand. And I was like, damn, this is all going to end here. Because, you know, I thought I was going to die.

And then I'm thinking about the girl that's still locked in the cell. Right? I'm thinking about my mom, my dad, you know, my sister. And you just die with a shitty butthole. Exactly. So the guards are like, listen, just tell me. Just tell me.

I didn't snitch. Just tell me who did it. And I never said anything. I passed out. When I wake up, I'm in the ambulance. So I wake up, the ambulance is going crazy, like 100 miles an hour. And then I look, and the girl I left in the cell is right next to me. And I'm like, what are you doing here?

And she's like, oh, my God. We make it to the hospital. I pass out again. When I wake up, they're in the middle of surgery. I see they have one of my intestines in their hands. So there's a doctor with the intestine. And I look up like this and the guys, and they're like, oh, Medicaid and medicate them because I guess they didn't give me enough medication to go to sleep.

and they knocked me out again, and then I wake up, and I'm all sewed up, and that's it. Now, why did, because the guards don't care when another inmate gets killed, why did they help you? Why were they in a rush to help you? I would think it's because I'm American, and they didn't want to have that on their shift. Right. An American getting murdered in the prison on their shift. And maybe it was visiting day, so this is really-

And it was visit day, you know, so it's really disrespectful to do that. It was a big thing, yeah. It was a big thing. Wow. And so what happened to this year? I go out, you know, I get sold up. They bring me back to the jail. They put me in the clinic for recuperation.

Do they, when somebody gets stabbed, like in that prison, are there any on-site medical teams or surgeons? Or do they always have to send you out to get help like that? Well, I mean, they have a doctor and a nurse upstairs, but they ain't doing shit. They ain't doing shit. They're like a veterinarian. Yeah. You know, they're not doing nothing. Take, you stab, take this time.

Yeah. I mean, there were stabbings there. I mean, there was a lot of stabbings there, a lot. You know, but so I come back to the jail. They put me in the clinic. It's like on the outside part of the general population, like by the offices upstairs, one of the floors. And I'm there just recuperating. You know, there's a bunch of other people that have been stabbed there. You know, people have been shot. They're all there with me, everybody. So I was like, oh, what happened? This and that. Just tell them what happened. They're like, oh, all right. About 15 days go by, I have to go back down the general pop. Get down the general population. You know, everybody sees when I come in. You know, people from B block. I'm sure they've ran and told, you know, he's back. So I, you know, I go in, go to my cell, you know, immediately arm myself. Just in the cell, you know, got my phone, started making phone calls.

That night, I hear the keys, like 1030, 11. stick the mirror out and they're coming to do a search. So I'm like, geez, I hope they don't come here. First all they go to is myself. Oh, this fucking open the door, everybody out. I'm still, I still got bandages and everything. And they call me and they're like, you, come here. Stand right here, right in the doorway.

So I stand in the doorway. The first thing he does is grab the fridge and he throws it. All my stuff fell out. And he just kicks the wall. Yeah. And he's like, oh, gringo, you thought you were going to leave, huh? They were like, take them upstairs and just started beating me. I'm banished up and they're beating me.

Yeah. So up to the hole, I was in the hole for 45 days. Yeah. What is the hole like in Ecuadorian prison? So in Ecuadorian prison, the whole, you're not by yourself, which I think, I mean, it's a good thing in a bad thing. Yeah, yeah. You're not by yourself, so you're not going to go crazy. but then you could have an enemy from another block that does something

and you're up there and they're putting them in with you. They don't care. You know? Yeah. Good luck, kid, you know? So I get up to the hole. Luckily there was people I knew there. Everything was all right.

I'm still bandaged up. I'm hurt. You know, I haven't even recuperated 100%. But my parents actually fly down while I'm in the hole for 45 days. and they tell them, you know, your son's going to get transferred to Guayaquil. And they were like, what could we do for him not to get transferred to the Wai'iqid? Why was that an issue? Because Wai'iqil was, number one, far away from any visit I had.

Number two, the prison was a lot worse over there. Wow. What is the worst, is that where the worst prison in Ecuador is? Yes. Okay. Tell us about that really quick. This prison is called La Penae, and this is where La Rokka. exists now, which is the Super Max for the biggest dealers and killers in Ecuador.

That jail is the one that's been going crazy with the riots. You know, 120 murdered over the weekend. They're sending off, you know, dynamite sticks. They're throwing grenades. They're chopping people up. They're throwing them on the ground. They're lighting them on fire. It's insane.

It's like something you've never seen. And if you don't live it or know somebody that lived through it, I mean, you're not going to believe it. Nowadays, luckily, we have, you know, the internet. and you can see everything. Yeah, it's like the Rwandan genocide. I mean, those levels of brutality. Yeah, it was bad. Okay, so even back then it was bad.

Even back then, the stories that people that come from Wayaquil, La Pani, crazy. You know, shootings every day, eight, ten-hour shootouts between this block to that block. We got AK-47. We got mini Uzi's, you know, tech nines, nine millimeters. Yeah. It's insane. All right. Yeah.

And if you try to escape. as you were doing, kept trying to escape, that's where they would send you. Yeah. That's where they were going to send you because the two other people that were with me and myself got sent there. Holy shit. Luckily, my parents, when they came, they were able to negotiate with the director of the jail.

Right. And they sent me to the max block F. It was why I met Colompico for the first time. Okay. So they kept you at the same person. They just sent you to F block. Okay. Did they have to pay the director at all?

Of course. Yeah. Wow. That was paid for. I don't know how much they paid, but it was paid for. You thank God for your parents, dude. Do you, I mean, are you still apologizing? Oh, of course.

Yeah. To this day. Mom, I love you. Don't forget. Yeah. You know, she's the best thing that ever happened to me. My father was, you know, awesome. Oh, God, I'm going to cry.

They went down there with me and, you know, helped me with everything and never abandoned me, you know, which is number one. Yeah. And they're Spanish speakers. and they understand, you know, even being from the third world, like money, cash moves, everything. Everything moves. Yeah. But I'll tell you, they all thought we were millionaires.

Yeah. Anybody in the office, any lawyer, anything that we needed. I need to do with legal fees or paperwork. Right. And, you know, he was even trying to get me out with Preililita, which is like parole. Yeah. So they were trying to get me out, even though I had, you know, a couple of escape attempts. Yeah.

Paying money. Right. He was paying. He was giving the right people money. It just didn't work out. So you did have some special status, though. They knew that you were from, you know, a relatively affluent family.

Yes. Okay. So you get sent to F Block. Who is this gentleman that you meet? So this guy, Colom Pico, is one of the head mobsters of Ecuador. He recently escaped from the jail in Rio Bamba. He runs Los Lobos and Los Tigurones. So these are big.

gangs down in Ecuador. So he's basically like allied with Fito. These are all big mobsters. When I was there, they were big people. They were known. He trafficked in jail. He was selling weed. He would get pounds of weed thrown from the mountain up top into F Block.

They could do that? Yeah, he was the man. What was he, what was his original charge? Like these guys basically spend decades, if not their whole lives in prison as rich mobsters. what did he originally go in for? I believe his charge was drug trafficking because he always sold drugs in Quito. He was known for that.

He used to be part of a gang of this famous lady called Mamalucha and she ran the drug business in Quito. And he was one of her like enforcers and drug dealers. So he was in there for either a drug charge? And then did he catch another charge? How much time did he have when you met him?

I believe he had a eight year sentence when I met him. Okay. So he had just gone locked up and they sent him to that maximum security because he's a big name at the time. Okay. So, and where is he now? Now he escaped. Nobody knows where he is. Wow.

Yeah. Wow. He escaped. He tried to negotiate with the president of Ecuador, you know, telling him, you know, I'll, I'll turn myself in, just make sure I'm going to be okay. Don't send me somewhere where they're going to murder me and this and that. the president was like, no, turn yourself in and that's that. If not, we're going to find you. And he's not turned himself in.

How long has he been on the run for? I believe it's about two months now. Oh, so he escaped like with Fito. With Fito. Yeah, days after Fito. Wow. They both escaped because this guy's coming in, the new president of the wall, and he's changing the prisons. Because before, you know, the police are taking care of the prison from outside the walls.

The guards run the prison inside the walls. Now, the guards are the ones that bring everything in. Guns, drugs, grenades, liquor, whatever you want. Right. Now, they might have to pay off a cop or two on the way in, especially if we're dealing with keys, right? But the cops never come inside the jail over there, never. They would just stay outside.

So when all this killing and all this mayhem's going on inside this small city that's a jail, the cops are outside like playing volleyball. Yeah. You know, meanwhile inside there's like AK-47s going off. Grenades getting thrown. It's chaos. So now the new president wants to send the cops? Now the president brought in the military and he's taking over the jails.

We want the guards out. We want the cops out. You guys are not doing your job. That's why there's all these things inside the jail. You guys are bringing everything. He brought in the military. And that's why the gang leaders want to get out because now they can't do whatever they're. Now they can't do what they were doing before.

You know, before they were running the blocks. You have to buy everything from my store, drugs you have to buy for me. You know, you can't move a pin without. asking them or saying anything. And you know who they're taking an example from? El Salvador. I guarantee you they're taking a page out of their playbook. Like no mercy.

Yep. That's what they're doing. Yeah. That's what they're doing. Now everybody's in uniform. And I mean, their uniform now is everybody's in boxers. They don't want to see anybody with any clothes on. Oh, shit.

It's insane. Literally. It's brutal. It's just like El Salvador. So that's, and they knew that was coming. Yeah. So that's why we're getting out. I'm gone.

Okay. I'm not going to live through this. So him and Fito are on the run. They're on the run. Yeah. Yeah. And they're not going to be taken alive. I doubt.

To live like that. No way. No. They're not going to be taken alive. Um, okay. So you knew this cat back in 2008, 2006. 2006 in this in F block. Okay.

So I get there. He's running the show based, basically. Um, you know, he's the top dog there. He's getting, you know, weed thrown from the mountain inside the jail. You know, he's paying off guards, selling Coke. He's doing everything. Now, uh, he's, he's doing everything. He was a big guy back then just when the cartels came into play.

They looked for the top dogs. He was one of the top dogs. They go to him. They're like, listen, you know, we got all this stuff. Help us out. You're running the jails because he could be in one jail, but he could be running two or three other jails because his gangs are everywhere. How many guys did he have working for him?

I don't know. I mean, I couldn't even say. Who knows? It's got to be thousands because in the streets, in the jail. You know, these people do whatever this guy wants. How does this guy wield so much power? And another thing is they were, you know, there's a lot of gold mining in Ecuador, right?

Right. So his gang was specializing and going in and robbing these gold mines. Holy shit. So they would go in and they would, you know, maybe kidnap everyone in the gold mine. They'd kidnap their entire family, right? And then they'd go to the gold mine and be like, listen, all the golds for us, start taking all this stuff out.

Wow. And they take all the gold. And they've hit multiple gold mines in Ecuador. Yeah. So think about it. Every hit, what are you getting? 1,000 pounds, 800 pounds. Who knows?

And gold's going up. Gold just keeps going up. Keeps going up. Who knows? And how does one individual wield this kind of power? It must be because he's a killer. He's a killer and the fame and, you know, just his history. Yeah.

Right. It's Pablo Escobar stuff. It's all of that. It's clout. Okay. So Ecuador has really become of some kind of a version of Columbia in the 80s. Yeah. Like Columbia in the 80s pretty much.

Okay. So, and what, did he like? you? Were you working with him? I wasn't working with him. F block, only the top dogs can move something. You can't just say, nobody could just sell anything. So he was the only one selling.

He was the only one controlling anything. You wanted to do anything in that block. He had to talk to him. Now, we were good. I mean, we were good like war-wise. There was no war going on. There was no enemies in that block at the time. Everybody that was there was cool with each other. So, you know, there was

no problems. Now, the day comes where there's a shootout in Wai'akid and here comes trouble. So one day, we're all there and the guards start, police, like a police custodial, start bringing in people, you know, a bunch of cops bringing in people with, they all had black hoodies on their head. And we're just watching from the center. Like, what is this? It's bringing in people, bringing in people.

They brought in like 40 people. So here comes the gangs from Wai'iqid. and now these guys want to take over. You know, and Colompico's over, he's like, this is my spot. What are you doing? They almost killed him. You know, he had to run out of Max. You know, he was banging on the guards' doors from to take him out

because they were going to slice them up. Fuck. Yeah. How did they take him over? They were just stronger? They put a gun to your face, you know. No, but I'm saying, like, how did this Colompico allow a new gang to just run him out like that?

because it was just, it's just more, more people. They had numbers. More people, more numbers, and more killers. Right. You know, when you have, you know, 20 people on your team that are not afraid to kill somebody and they have a history of this, then, you know, it's, you're going to win. Were there some bodies that got dropped in that process? No, no bodies got dropped.

So they just basically ran him out. They just came and take over, ran them out. They said, listen, get out of here. You're going. And all you guys work for us now. Yeah, now all you guys are screwed. So, yeah, it was pretty bad. they tried to

since they knew I was friends with him they tried to start extorting me right I locked up what does that mean? I locked myself and myself okay so I was like I'm not doing it they were coming to my window white boy you're not gonna pay up white boy

no I'm not paying they would throw piss inside through the window shit you know they put a mattress up against my door they lit it on fire all the smoke was coming in You know, I'm banging on the door. I'm screaming out the window.

I thought I was going to die because all the smoke. Just crazy things, man. How long did that go on for? I would say like three weeks until my parents were able to get me out of there, paying money again. How did, and then where did you go? They put me in this place that's recuperation for drug addicts. It's like the clinic. So they eventually, with enough visits and enough money to the director of that person,

prison and whoever else, right? Maybe a couple other guys they share it with. They were able to get you to basically what's like a halfway house. Something like that, yeah. Okay. And how long did you have to stay there for? I was there for about six months. Yeah, I was there for about six months.

It was pretty good. There was no problems. Yeah. You know, everybody's just in rehab. Yeah. And gain some weight, doing, you know, exercise, playing soccer, volley. Yeah. You know, eating good.

And after six months, they were like, all right, you got to go. Boom, they kicked me out back to General Pop. So I got there and I got back. Wait back to the same prison you were just at? Yeah. Okay. Back to the general population. But you're not an F Block anymore.

No, not an F block. Yeah, that's in the same prison, but a different part. So it's the maximum security is A. Then we have B, C, and D, which is general population. Then we have E. And then we have F Block, which is the maximum security for, you know, the killers. Right. And that's where all that.

Colompico Yeah, that's where they... So after the riots, when they, they, you know, chisel the holes in the wall, they come, do they make them stronger? Like, do they reinforce the walls better? Not at all. Okay.

They just come back and cover up those holes and keep it going. Great. Yeah. Yeah, what a shit hole that country is. Okay, so, and then how much time do you have left on your stretch? God, I feel like this is never ending, dude.

Yeah, the stretch I was probably in, like, five and a half at that time. Mm-hmm. So I get to E-block. I meet up with an old friend. His name was Vinuesa. He was very known in the jail system. He tried to escape a couple times.

He sold drugs. And we were boys. So I hooked up with him. We were like the dynamic duo on our block. Started, you know, selling bassoco. You know, I started consuming a little bit again as well at night time. When, you know, days over, I locked in myself, smoke a little bit. Abase?

Yeah, Abase. With the weed. Uh-huh. And then just started, you know, selling, extortioning, you know, getting into the game. And after a couple complaints, bam, again to F block. Fuck. Yeah. When are you going to learn?

Now, were you giving up at this point? Did you feel like you were just say, I'm going to go bad? I mean, the thing is that when you're in a jungle, you have to turn into an animal because if not, you're screwed. So, and on top of that, you got so many years. in and then you know all the people that you're with are doing the same thing, you're going to adapt. I mean, it's all a part of it. I adapted to my situation and tried to make the best out of it.

Okay, so you're on F Block. Back with these goons. Get back to F Block with the goons. And I did my last nine months there. So while I'm on F Block, this new president, Rafael Correa, signs the treaty. Right. And then all the foreigners could go. Right.

One day out of the blue, they come to F-wing, and they're like, we need you to come out. They handcuffed me, boom, boom. They take me to the office. And I signed the paper. I'm like, what am I signing? They're like, this is your paperwork. You're going free. Right.

I was ecstatic. I was like, what? They were like, yeah, you're going free. But the bad news is we can't let you go yet. I was like, what do you mean? Like, yeah, immigration's backed up. So you're going to have to, I'm like, I have to go back to F-wing. They're like, yeah, you're going back to F-block.

F-block, 22 hours a day, locked in your cell. Two hours. a day in the patio. You got no food from the outside. You can only eat the food from the jail, which is the worst. And 90% of the people in there are all big-time drug addicts. I'm talking about they're smoking heroin, they're smoking Pata Vase. And when these people don't have drugs, they're going crazy. It's like a nut house in there. Right. You know, at night, when you're locked in your cell, everybody's screaming. You know, it's just insane, man. Oh, my God. Yeah. And what do you do? What do you do? Like, are there books? Are there...

There's nothing. I luckily was able to pay a guard 40 bucks to smuggle me in a small black and white TV radio thing. So I would, you know, everybody on my side of the floor, because we were separated, even though I'm on the first floor, the left side is separated from the right side with huge bars. So you can't get past. But on my side, there were six of us and we would all go to my cell and watch TV. my stove was a brick, a large brick with a metal, what do we call these things? Nicolina, we call it in Spanish. A burner?

So it's something like a burner. I would have to plug in these cables into the socket. And it would light up. It's like a hot plate. Like a hot plate. And it would heat up the brick. And then we could maybe fry an egg or some fry plantain, some French fries, whatever. And I would keep it on 24-7 because it was so cold.

Wow. We could use it as a heater. Yeah. You know, so we would sit around, you know, watch that TV, but I mean, it was the worst. Yeah, it's miserable. The worst. It's hell on earth. Yes.

Wow. But at least you're locked down, so there's not a lot of like violence. Yeah, there's not a lot of violence. I mean, once you go outside, the violence occurs in the patio. Yeah. But like I said, this time, we were good. There wasn't too many enemies. Yeah.

Yeah. And then, okay, and then immigration opens up. Immigration opens up. They come and they're like, all right, Mr. Castro, let's go. and they walked me out, which was probably one of the best days of my life, you know, walking out of this Supermax, all these killers, you know, everybody's staying behind. I'm giving away, you know, a little TV, my clothes, my hat, my sneakers. Anything I had, I left everything.

All I brought was, you know, those pictures you see there, you know, and the clothes I had on my back. People yelling. People like, white boy, bro, don't ever come back here, bro. You know, stay free. Yeah. All right, man. Wow. Yeah.

Wow. Crazy. But, you know, also you feel this, like I feel it to this day. Like I tell you, my friend's been there for like 19 years, right? The moment I walked out, you know, before I walked out, I had an issue with another prisoner there. And there was an issue over drugs. And I'll tell you, at the moment, I was, I made the decision. I'm going to stab the shit out of this guy.

And I walked into my friend's cell and I was like, listen, man, I need a knife. You know, I want to go stab this kid right now because, you know, he's disrespecting me. and I'm already free, right? I already sign my paperwork, but they're not letting me go anywhere, and I'm here. So in my head, you know, the drugs, the psychosis, you know, all these thoughts are going through your head, like, do they want me to kill somebody's

because they want to see me here every day? Yeah. Do I have to do this? And then this other kid, you know, he had a 20-year sentence. You know, I'm waiting for drugs to get thrown from the other side and they throw it and this kid grabs my drugs and runs with it, and he's got a 20-year sentence.

So what am I going to do? Go ask for my drugs. No, you got to go fight this kid, with a knife now. So I walk in my friend's son. I'm like, listen, I was like, I've decided I want to do this. And he's like, bro, what are you nuts? You want to stay here with me?

He's like, you see my life? You see what we do here? You don't want to be here. He's like, bro, you're already free. He's like, I'm going to leave. And I'm going to leave you in here for a couple minutes. And I need you to think about what you just told me. All right?

And when I come back, you let me know if you want to do it or not. If you do, I'll give you the knife and I'll go out there and make sure nobody gets in your way. But remember, you're going to do. dying here just like me. So he left and he locked me in a cell. And with the emotions I had that day, you know, like I was crying. I was so angry.

I was like, God, you know, do you want me to go free or do I have to stay here? Do I have to go and kill this cocksucker right now? You know, like I feel it right now like my, you know, I get like the chills, man. So after contemplating what I was going to do at the moment, you know, my friend comes back in. he's like, so are you ready? And I was like, you know what, man, you're right. You know, thank you. You know, thank you for being a friend.

He's like, bro, the kid's garbage. You're going to go stab him for what? For drugs? Like, bro, you're going to go home. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Don't worry about this bullshit.

Yeah. All right? He's like, just relax. He's like, whatever you got, time left. He's like, we're going to do it together. You know, he's like, but you're going to go home. I was like, bro, but they don't take me out of here. I want to leave.

He's like, all, tomorrow morning, we'll take over. a guard. Don't worry about it. So the guard comes in in the morning to open up the doors and bam, we grab them. Call over the radio. We want the director in here. Yeah, director comes in. You know, we got the guard in the cell. You know, what's the deal with white boy? Why isn't he going free? He signed the paperwork three months ago, you know, and I started going crazy. I mean, you guys want to see me here every day? You want me to kill a guard? You want me to not leave here? Because that's what's going to happen. I'm going to stay here forever. And they were like, no, don't worry. We're going to talk. We're going to get you out of here. And then,

the next day they got me out. Next day they came from immigration and took me. Holy fuck. Like they can make it happen if they want to. So that's, you know, I go back to when I left, you know, I'm just looked at my boy. I'm like, bro, thank you. Wow. You know, because he stayed and I get to leave.

You know, he's there till this day. Do you talk to him still? Of course. Oh, man. He's doing a life sentence? I mean, he doesn't have life, but, you know, he's killed a couple people inside so he's not leaving. Yeah. Wow.

Have you been, and you haven't been back to Ecuador? No, never. Yeah. Crazy, man. All right, man. Well, hey, we're going to switch over to the Patreon now, but thank you for giving us a movie, because that's what that was. That was a movie. And, you know, perhaps we'll talk about writing a screenplay about it. That's my life, man. I just want to get it out there. And not so much for the stories, but, you know, for the young people out there that think about drug trafficking, going to foreign countries. Don't do it. The young people. I've been thinking about it this whole time. do it. It's not worth it. You're going to end up in a lot of trouble. You might not make it back. You know, I had tons of friends I had when I went into jail. They're not around anymore.

I'm one of the lucky ones. I thank God every day I was able to come out. I'm still alive. I'm healthy. You know, I'm pushing forward. I got a business, my wife, you know, and I'm just happy. I'm happy to see you. Thank you for the opportunity that you gave me today. I appreciate it. And hopefully we could work in the future. Oh, man. No, it was beautiful. Thank you for coming. we owe you one. And we may see a podcast from you coming out. Hopefully, yes, with the help of maybe you or Ian, we're going to get things out there

and maybe work in the future together. We'll see how it goes. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Oscar. Appreciate it, buddy. Thank you, sir. All right, guys, patreon.com slash the connect show for more Oscar Castro.

Peace.