The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - California Gang Member Exposes Most VIOLENT Mexican-American Street Gang, Surviving Federal Prison

Episode Date: December 1, 2024

Paul Calvo, a former member of the notorious Fresno Bulldogs, opens up about his life of crime, survival in one of California's most violent gangs, and the harsh realities of federal prison. Paul shares never-before-heard stories about life on the inside, including shocking violence, the rules of survival, and the eventual journey toward redemption. This Episode Is #Sponsored By The Following: True Classic! Upgrade your wardrobe and save on @trueclassic at https://trueclassic.com/connect ! #trueclassicpod HexClad! For a very limited time, shop the biggest sale of the year and find your forever cookware @hexclad at https://hexclad.com/connect ! #hexcladpartner Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The tricky thing with the Sournios is that you don't know if they're going to attack you or not. You better not be afraid to die and you better be willing to kill. In my unit, there was only one Sourennial. Make a little tomahawk out of my razors and I freaking slice them. The white boys are like, oh, okay, it's killing season. And then people just start dying. Paul Calvo is from Fresno, California. At a young age, he got jumped into the Fresno Bulldogs,

one of the most notorious Chicano street gangs in Central California. Paul specialized in gun running and ran an interstate meth guns trade from Oregon to Fresno when he caught a Fed case at just 19 years old. Paul did eight years flat on some of the wildest federal yards in the country where he witnessed and took part in beatings, killings, and high-level drug trafficking. He was all set to be in and out of prison the rest of his life when something in him switched. While he was still on parole, Paul began attending community college, where he excelled in math and science. After receiving straight A's, he was accepted to Stanford University and is preparing to graduate this fall with a degree.

in chemical engineering and a six-figure job waiting for him at a Fortune 500 company. This is a fascinating, almost inexplicable story of transformation, from a gangbanger destined for life in prison to a flourishing stand-up citizen. And for more on how he made this change and his time at Stanford, check out the bonus episode with Paul at patreon.com slash the Connect show. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Paul Calvo, the Fresno Bulldog, right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. I could hear it in my mom, like the pain and suffering and the stress that I'm causing her. Don't you want to make something out of your life? I just got disgusted with myself. I told her like,

guys like me don't go to college. She's like, all right, you're going to be an engineering major. The math professor that I chose was the hardest math professor. She was like feared at Fresnel City. I killed the class, bro. Annihilated it. That's when I see the lights behind me start to flash. And I didn't even think. I just hit it. I was driving like my life depended on. Then I parked the car, popped out, closed the door, and I started running. And he pulled out a burner, shank, like six inches, and he passes it to me. And he goes, here, that's yours. Don't ever leave the cell block without this. He was the reason I made it out of that place alive. And Fresno, you know, you hear about that from being in Oregon, you heard, hey, Fresno,

that is the dregs. Yeah. So where in Fresno are you from? From the east side, from the east side. What was that like? So, so I bounced around a lot as a kid. We grew up on the east side for maybe the first eight, nine years of my life. And the reason why we were even living on the east side is because of my dad. So I was born in Tucson, Arizona. My dad's from Mexico. From Monterey. Okay.

Yeah. And my mom is originally, she was born in New York, but she grew up most of her, life in El Paso, Texas. So when they, so when I'm born, they want to move to Fresno. My mom looks like a complete white woman. My dad looks like a straight Indian. You could tell he's from Mexico, you know. And so the realtor, she was a white woman that was working with my mom and was showing

her like nicer parts of Fresno, you know. But the moment my dad came to like, I think it was like, maybe the third or fourth like meeting that they had with her and the realtor because my mom's still in Arizona at this time and she's trying to work it all out, right?

That's when the realtor started showing houses on the east side to my parents, you know, yeah. Old fashioned racism, redlining. Yeah, it was very redlined city, right? Yeah, it is. It's very segregated. Yes, yes.

So for that part of my childhood, it was there. Then we kind of lived in the country. then we kind of lived in a little area, a little city outside of Fresno, which is Clovis. And then we moved back to the country. Because you have to keep in mind, you know, it's, yeah, Fresno is a city,

but as soon as you leave the city, it's nothing but country. It's farmland. Yeah, it's farmland. Yeah. And you have so many Latinos up there. Yeah. Migrant workers.

Yep. People who like it. You know, Latinos like ranches. They like open spaces. You're not really a city people. Yeah. Overall. Yeah.

That's exactly how my dad was. Okay. Yeah. He got tired of, Yeah, he got tired of, you know, being in the city. So you had your father. You had both your parents. Yeah.

Yeah. What happened? So my dad is a very traditional Mexican. Like, you don't cry. You don't show emotion. Like, if you, I don't care if you're dying and you get to work, you know. But he was also very, very violent, very violent. And it started from his dad.

His dad was also very, my grandpa was very violent. You know, my grandpa used to just beat the shit out of my dad, right? My dad, and I feel now that I'm a dad myself, right, I kind of feel, you know, I feel bad for my dad because he also had a terrible upbringing. and I see why he went about being a dad the way he did. Now, I don't excuse it. I don't excuse it. I don't condone it, right? Because I then, I have a son, you know, he's three.

Paul Jr., right? And I could never, and when I get, like, upset with him, I could never see myself, like, taking a belt to him. You know what I mean? I just, I couldn't do it, you know? I get kind of bent out of shape when I like, hey, you know, because he's, he's a wild kid. You know, he's a little wild child. And I get, you know, I get hard on myself for that, you know, but my dad was very, he was all,

like I said, he was like his dad, he was very violent. So towards you gave you the belt. Oh, man, more than the belt. There's been times where, you know, where he hit me with an extension cord, you know, the oil dipstick from a car from the motor, you know, he hit me with that a couple times. That was bad, you know. that like what is the oil dipstick the to check the oil yeah i get that but is there anything particular about that it's just a metal yeah yeah bro and it was it's like a whip yeah and that was

like oh my gosh that was like even as a kid i still remember the pain you know what i mean so and then you know he would force me to fight his friend's kids you know so uh you know growing up that's what childhood was you know it was like okay you messed up now i'm gonna whip you know And messing up could be bringing him the wrong tool, you know. Because at the time I was trying to learn English. So Spanish is my first language. And sometimes I would get tools mixed up. He would say something in Spanish and I'd kind of be like, oh, what the?

So what I would do, what I learned because I didn't want to get worked is I would just grab all the tools I thought could be possible. And I would just like, you know, here, you pick, you know. And so, you know, that was how he was, you know, just a mean, mean guy, you know. And you were street fighting, too. You were fighting other kids. You came up. I'm kind of envious that I didn't have that. Yeah.

I'm glad I didn't get whooped like that, but I wish I would have street fought more. Yeah. I think there's some, there's something to that. Yeah. Yeah. But what about the gang bang? Like, how did that? Bro, so that, I was never a part of anything growing up.

Like, I knew who they were. I saw them, right? But it wasn't until I went to Juvenile Hall. So like I said, we moved around a lot. And the first time I went to Juvenile Hall, it was for, this was when like you couldn't even have a little dime of weed. You know, now you could just walk down the street. But, you know, I had a little bit of weed. I got in a fight at school.

Went to Juvenile Hall. And in Juvenile Hall, since I was living in Clovis at the time, and it's predominantly a white town, all the bulldogs, all the, all the homeboys would be like, oh, you're a white. boy. Oh, you're a white boy. So then I would fight again. Because I'm like, I'm not a white boy. I speak Spanish. You guys don't even speak Spanish. What do you, you know what I mean? My dad's from Mexico. What the, you know? Who are the Fresno Bulldogs? They're the biggest gang in Fresno. They're, uh, um, now it's, it's kind of transformed into a bunch of different neighborhoods. So, so I may say I'm from the east side, just like in a prison where there's, no bulldogs.

Uh-huh. But, like, in the county jail or even around other homeboys, I'm from Lewis Street. Okay. You know, it's a, it's a neighborhood that is associated with the east side. But there's the serenios who are part of, like, if associated with the Mexican mafia, Laman, and the Nortezanos who broke off and they're the Nostro Familia. Yeah. Are the bulldogs their own entity?

Yeah. So they don't run with either Nortenos or Southsiders? No. No. Oh, interesting. But, but, uh, So, so, you know, there's so many different, so many different stories you'll hear. You'll hear, you know, they're drop out Nortenos or drop out NF.

And it gets kind of washed down because it depends on who tells it, right? You know, I've met some Nortenos that told a certain story that we were, you know, NF and certain members that were NF. and certain members that were NF and they broke off and did their own thing and took Fresno with them. And that's partially true. There was a lot of like, I want to say rivalry, you know, for power and being that top dog, you know, amongst cities, you know, amongst San Jose, Salinas, Fresno, you know. And so, yeah, you know, a man by the name of Crackers, he broke off. and he took the Fresno car with him because a lot of other guys were like

Oh oh That's a big no-no put that on silent I have alarms for classes and homework Okay yeah yeah yeah I turned it off okay cool Just leave that in fuck it All right he knows he knows that He's now breaking his podcast Jerry

You know not to keep his phone on This is my first podcast Okay sorry so you're talking about the crackers Yeah Yeah. Ironically started a Latino gang with the name Cracker. Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. So that happened. And it just turned into, like, it just turned into a huge war zone, wherever they would be at, you know, guys from Fresno and NCOs and NF and all that.

And then it's, it's ironic and it's actually kind of comical now that I think about it, how I spent my time in federal prison. And some of the conversations that I've had, because I was on the yard with some pretty, you know, big-time NF dudes, you know. Do you think Fresno's mostly bulldogs or? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Wow.

Yeah, it's mainly bulldogs. And these are Chicano's, it sounds like. Yeah. Not really Mexicans. No, no. First generation, Mexicans. There you go. Yeah.

And they're more Chicano. They're more, you know. Yeah, they're not, they're not, I mean, 90s, early 2000s, you had guys coming from Salvador, Central America, South America. And like, they would happen to fall in and join the gang or whatever. Are there a mix of Latino races, if you want, are ethnicities amongst the Bulldogs? Yeah. So it's not just Mexicans.

No, there's even white, black. there's a forgot his name but um he's Punjabi he's you know rolling with the homeboys um

because it's kind of like it's it's kind of like where you grow up right you become product of your environment you know and so there'd be certain certain individuals that grow up in the hood start to become friends they start to kick it next thing you know one thing you know

now they're rolling around with the homeboys but how do you square that when you go to prison, federal prison. So it's different, at least for, excuse me, I've been out since the, since like the beginning of 2016. So it's a little different now. But when I was in there,

the Souragnos had a green light on us. And it was weird because you would go to one prison and they wouldn't have a green light, right? Like, it was very much like up in the air. But then they would, you know, try to tell you, okay, you can't come out to the yard. You know, or, I mean, you can't come out to the yard with your shirt off. You know, if you're not going to work out, you need to be on the yard, right?

They would try to dictate the program of, you know, whatever Bulldog was there. Because in the feds, there's not a lot of us, you know? Right. For a while, I was like the only bulldog on one of the yards. When I was in the shoe in Tucson, I was the only bulldog. There was a couple of prisons I was at where there was like two other homeboys, you know, out of, what, 3,000? So then who do you eat with? Who do you work out with?

Who's your car? It's not enough to have a gang. No, it's not. It's not. That's a relationship. Yeah. Right. That's a selly.

No, so the prisons I was at, there was a red light between us and the NF. the Nortenos. So whenever we would get to a yard, first they would want to make sure that we were active because it's an active prison yard, right? And so once they knew, okay, you're an active bulldog, they would be like, hey, man,

if you want to sit here and eat, you know, go ahead, more than welcome to. And that's why I say it was kind of, you know, it's comical how I spent my time, you know. Luckily for me, I, so, So Oklahoma is a transfer center. Think of it as like a Wasco.

You know, you typically, especially if you're getting sent to the East Coast or down south, you'll leave, at the time you'll leave Victorville, fly into Oklahoma. And then from there, you'll go to whatever prison. And so when I got to Oklahoma, right, I hadn't been to any prisons yet. I was in Laredo in the shoe and then went to Victorville. and then now the transfer center, I came across another bulldog that was in transit and he told me like, hey man, like when you get to the yard,

the NF and the Nortenos, they're not going to mess with you. Like, it's cool. You know, there's a red light, you know, the guys are solid. Like, they're not going to do anything. He was like, the Surenios, though, he's like, you just have to be careful. He was like, because in Atwater, his brother got jumped as soon as he went out to the yard.

And in other spots, they were doing the same thing. And then he, you know, added, but also there's some other prisons where they're not really tripping on us. Right. He's like, so take that. Memorial Day weekend is almost here, and it's time to kick off summer right. When I'm getting ready for the first big weekend of summer, total wine and more is my go-to, especially when I'm firing up the grill with family. I'll grab refreshing beers, easy drinking wines, and some hard seltzers for the cooler.

And with everything that goes into summer, it's nice knowing you're getting the lowest price. Total Wine and More. Your Memorial Day Made Easy. Shop total wine and more in store or online. Spirits not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly must be 21. So the op is basically the Southsiders. It can be when you go to the joint. Okay. Yeah. And it's for the federal system. Let's talk about how you got there. So are you a good student like before you went to Juvie and you weren't? No. I mean, I was the class clown. you know, I was a class clown and, and, um, you know, I, I, so, so I've turned into a person that likes to like do a lot of like self-reflection. I like to think about if I'm in a certain, you know, situation with somebody, um, or I'm working with somebody. I like to, like, I don't know, I just go down these rabbit holes and I like to just get

into their mind. I like to, you know, pick apart what's happened to me, you know, my past traumas. How does that affect me now? Right. And so, you know, as I'm, as I've been doing that a lot, I see that I used comedy and having fun as a way to like kind of feel normal, right? Because like I mentioned, my childhood was pretty rough, you know? And so in class, making everybody laugh, even the teacher sometimes would laugh because I was a funny

kid, you know, and it wasn't like I was being like just a malicious student, right? Like, it was just I made class fun. Yeah. And so that's what I did, you know, and I didn't get the best of grades, you know, but I also wasn't like

failing and being held back. So then how are you able to be a gangbanger if you're like a funny, thoughtful, deep person? Well, at the time, I really wasn't. I was just funny. Okay. You know, at the time, I was just funny. But, but, you know, to elaborate on how I even joined.

Like I said, I went to Juvenile Hall, right? You know, all the homeboys are calling me white boy. So I'm starting to fight, get in trouble, right? But I'm also whooping them. You know? And so then I would laugh and be like, oh, okay, yeah, I'm a white boy, but I'm whooping your ass. You know, what are you going to do?

By a white boy. Yeah, right? And that's what I would, you know, tell them, you know, just to sting them a little more, you know. And then it turned into, oh, man, you're cool. Come kick it with us. You know, come, come, come eat at our table. You know, because I was eating at a table where it was just like a bunch of like the rejects, you know, like just guys that had, you know, kids that had no gang ties, no nothing.

You know, that's where I would sit. And then I got out and that's when it just all went downhill. Okay. Went downhill. One thing that, um, that I've taken from. my street life into my academic career, my professional career, is networking. Right. When you're on the streets, you want to get the best connect with the best oh, right?

So you find a way to rub elbows with that person. You know so-and-so has this good plug. Okay, well, how can I get introduced to him, right? And so for some reason, that's how I thought even as a teenager, you know, because now I'm like 17, 18. And, you know, like I said, I used those skills to then meet with this BISA, right? He was, I don't know what if he was cartel related. I don't know. Even if he was, I probably wouldn't even say it.

But he had a really good plug. So at the time in Fresno, like an ounce of meth that was fire, that was like A1, was probably $15,800. And he was giving it to me for $900. Wow. Yeah. And I would then take that dope up to Oregon where I had a lot. a homeboy that would, you know, do his thing with it. And he could make like maybe 3,500 off of that, you know.

So what I would do is I would take it up there. And since guns were really cheaper up there, I would just get paid in guns. Wow. Yeah. And so, you know, AK-47 in Fresno runs you about 1,500 at the time, at this early 2000s, right? And in Oregon, I could get it for 600. So what I would do is I just, yo, dude here. I'm going to give you this ounce, you know, $2,000, but I want all guns, you know, just give me all guns.

And so I would come down with shotguns, pistols, SKS, like everything. And so I would then come down to Fresno and sell them to the Homeboys. Yeah. And so that's what I was doing. That was like my little plug. That's how I made my money. Wow. That's an adult business for such a young man.

Yeah. Met for guns. Yeah. And then I got popped. I got popped for having an eight. AK. And I did a year, I did a year in the, in the juvenile hall. I did it. I did a year because I, I basically, at first I was charged with like a bunch of robberies and shootings and stuff, but they couldn't, they couldn't put them on me because, um, the casings didn't match.

There were 7-6-2, but they didn't match the AK that I had. So they, they couldn't pin any of that on me. So all I did was plead guilty to the possession of a assault rifle. So they raided your house and you had an AK? Yeah. Had a huge standoff with the cops. They shot me up with some. I don't know what they shot me up with. But it had me in the hospital for like three days.

I couldn't move. Wow. Yeah. They hit you? No, with like a syringe or something. Wow. And I just for three days I couldn't move. Like to take a piss, I had to like do my heart.

So like lean to the side and just like pee off the side of the bed. They hit you with some kind of like barbitioles. it. Yeah. Wow. It messed me up. And so after being in the hospital for three days, they transferred me to the juvenile hall.

So you're still 17. You're on age at the time. Yeah. I actually turned 18 in the juvenile hall. And so they were trying to do like, oh, okay, you know, should we charge them as an adult, you know, but I think by then I was still 17. So they were trying to do this back and forth of like, okay, do we charge them as an adult, send them to the county jail, let them.

and take care of it. And finally, they just came to me and asked if I would sign for a year. And I was like, yeah, sure. Give me a year, you know. There's nothing. Did you do those shootings? So this is how that worked out. And because my oldest daughter, her mom snitched on me.

That's the reason why the cops came to my house. So I had a homeboy, right? And, you know, I'll elaborate on it now. I had a homeboy named Talcan, right? And he and I were running around doing our thing. A friend of mine, he, his dad had problems with some dudes on the west side. So we went over there, laid the house down, right? They were out front.

And as soon as they saw us pull out of the car, they knew it was going to be a shooting. They take off into the house, but we're still shooting. With the AK? Yeah. Wow. And then he had a shotgun. He had a shotgun now. So we had a, it was a nice, Remington 870.

We sought it off. We put a pistol grip on it, and then we put a pistol grip on the pump. And it was a beautiful gun. I love guns, bro. That's some gangster shit. Yeah, that's been my thing. All my charges are gun related. So anyways, yeah.

that so that happened. So you did a year just for possession of it. Yeah. So you didn't get a Fed case. No, no, no, no. And the reason why we were able to beat that is because the AK that I had that I got caught with, I had never used it. Like it was, it was, this was before the Draco even came out, right? I think Draco hasn't been out that long.

But this AK was a cherry red wood. It was referred to as the shorty mini blonde as when it was, you know, where it was for sale at. And it was probably like, I don't know, probably about this big, right? Like, yeah, probably about this big. And it just was a beautiful gun. And like I said, I love guns. And I was like, no, I'm not going to use this. Like, this is going to be like the baby that's kept up in the closet.

Yeah, yeah. And the AK. And that's the one they found. Yeah. And the AK that we were running around doing dumb stuff with, tall can. So my baby's mom lived around the corner from me. And we roll up and she gets upset because I had some weed. She then is like, oh, I'm going to call the cops. So I'm like, oh, my gosh, this freaking woman.

And I take off. I get to my house. Like I said, I lived around the corner, so it took us like a minute to get home. Talcan then grabs the guns and takes off. But he left mine because, like I said, we just left that alone, right? I should have had him take it, but, I mean, it is what it is. So when she called, she didn't say, oh, he has weed. She said, oh, hey, you know, these shootings and robberies that have happened in the last couple weeks.

It's because of him and his friend. Oh, my. So when they came, they like, they like, surreferiorated. rounded the house. Swatty, a helicopter, like they were on the freaking, you know,

what is it called, the bullhorn, the loudspeet, whatever, like, they come out, like they had us surrounded, you know,

um, and my, my poor mom, she just, they freaking, uh, when they finally got in, they took me out,

they, you know, um, you know, and I had, it wasn't like a major fight. It was like a little kind of scuffle. You know,

it was nothing crazy. That's why they hit me with that. And off I go. But when they found my gun, my poor mom, they put it right up to her face. And they're like, do you know what this is, ma'am? This is an AK-47. Your son had it. And she's just like, oh, my gosh.

Like, what the? You know. So you did a year off of that. Yep. And then how did things change when you came home? They didn't. They didn't, man. I got back to doing the same thing.

You know, the connect that I had, the, the Paisa, he, he was off doing something else. I don't know. I couldn't get a hold of him. Plus, even too, I feel like even if I did, he, you know, might have been kind of like leery on things. I know sometimes, you know, guys that are pushing a lot of weight start to trip, like, okay, you just got out. Like, I don't know. I go down all these like what is. But, you know, long story short, I couldn't get a hold of him.

So, you know, I found another connect through a homeboy of mine and got back to it, man. Started selling dope now in Fresno. And Fresno, meth must be the biggest street drug, right? Yeah. Like way more than Coke. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Especially at that time.

Right. Everybody was doing that. Huge. Yeah. It was like the thing to do. So there was never any shortage of demand. No. If you were selling good dope, right?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So then I'm... What were you selling? Just ounces? Yeah. O ounces are a little less. Yeah, eight ball, teen, or like, I wasn't doing no bringing in 20 keys.

And, you know, no, I, yeah, I didn't, I wasn't at that level. I was basically just like a, just like a little street peddler, you know, nothing more than an ounce. Say maybe sometimes here or there, I would get a couple ounces, but that was because someone wanted it. And so I was like, yeah, I'll make the transaction. But mainly my thing was, you know, again, guns, you know, selling guns. And so I got back to doing that. Got back to, you know, I found a good plug that I could get, again, from Oregon. Really?

Yeah. I wonder why guns in Oregon are so much cheaper. I don't, oh, man, I don't know. I have no idea. I mean, obviously, like lower regulation. But I'm from Oregon. Yeah. I wasn't aware that there was, it was easy to get AK-47s in Oregon.

Yeah. Right? It was strange. It was, I mean, at least for the guy that I knew. Like he, I could give him a list and like within a week, he would have that whole list. Wow. Yeah. What would be on a gun list?

Whatever. It could be any kind of shotgun, you know, any kind of rifle, handgun. But he had, he had a little. team. He had a little team of tweakers that just made it happen, bro. Like he would, man, it would, I bet you he could tell them, hey, I want a freaking tank and they would roll up in a tank. Like, these guys got down, you know. Oh, the tweaker motivation is. The tweaker motivation is real. Steve Jobs can't be that motivated. Yeah. Exactly. Tweeker motivation is like, you know, Tony Robbins. Yeah. Yeah. Today's episode is sponsored by my favorite new clothing company, True Classic. Okay. So,

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com forward slash connect bone appetit let's eat with hex clad's revolutionary cookware happy cooking and happy holidays let them know we sent you over here at the connect thank you so much let's get back into the episode so these were probably stolen guns they're probably out just breaking into people's houses stealing guns yeah um would you get orders like how would you make the list up would you go to the homeboys in fresno and and hear what they needed and then write it down yeah and then go up to oregon yeah uh But then at the time, like, it kind of was already known like, oh, okay, if you want guns, you know, Looney can get you guns, you know. And so what was your street name? Looney.

Looney. Looney, yeah. And so Homeboys had hit me up and they'd be like, hey, man, I want this. I want that. Oh, okay. You know, let me see what I can do. Like, I didn't really like promising or saying, oh, yeah, I got you. I could do that.

Because then, like, I don't know. I just felt like if I didn't come through, it just looked bad. You know, it's bad business. So I would just always be like, yeah, let me see what I can do. and then, you know, if I can make it happen, I would, you know. And, you know, the same kind of thing is, you know, I would take dope up there. I wouldn't take a ton of dope, you know, take enough just so where I can, you know, get maybe about five, six guns, bring them back. And so that's just how I did all that, you know.

That was just like a revolving door for me. And then I caught another case for, for, possession of sales with the firearm. They gave me a gang enhancement. And I feel like they kind of set me up for this because they said, you sign for a strike and you'll do time serve because I was, you know, as I was in the county fighting it. And so I was like, okay, yeah, sure. Give me the strike, you know, time serve, let's go.

So that was when I was 18 because I then caught my. my federal case at 19. Okay. Yeah, I was almost 20. All right. So you got pinched first, though, by the state for this gun and meth case. Yeah. Did you already have your bulldog tattoos?

Like, were you already formally a part of the gang? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't have many tattoos, you know, because I hadn't gone to the joint yet to get tatted. Yeah. And some, you know, some homeboys on the streets, you know, did some tattoos for me. back then it was still very much like like you had to do something to get a tattoo you know

you couldn't just tattoo Fresno on you or a bulldog you know like you had to actually go do something put in some work and then you would get tatted so how'd they know you were a part of the gang how they give you that that enhancement oh because so so

the reason why I even got pop was because I was drunk on the corner of winery and lane, which is like notorious for crazy stuff. It's the east side, right? And there was this guy who was beating up his woman, right? So they're fighting, they're arguing. And I'm like walking, minding my own business, because they're arguing. It is what it is.

You know, they're going to argue. but then he like started putting hands on her and I was like, yo, dude, what the, you know, and then he started, you know, coming towards me and getting stupid with me. So him and I start fighting. I drop him. And now it's like, it's not there anymore,

but they used to have a bus stop. There's a bus stop right there on the corner. And I'm like kicking his head into the pole. And his girlfriend, is like now trying to fight me, like telling me to stop. You know, stop, get off in. I'm like, girl, girl, he was just beating you up. Like, you know, I know I took it too far.

You know, I should have just, as soon as he fell, like, left him alone and just like went on my bit. Honestly, I shouldn't have even got myself involved, you know? Correct. But, um, uh, so then she does that and I'm drunk. And all I hear was screaming and then like a boom, you know, the side of my head. head and I just turned around and like, bam. And bro, I kid you not, once I realized that I had hit her and that it was like actually her and she fell. I was like, I like almost sobered up. I was like, oh my gosh. I just laid her out, bro. What are you doing? You know, like, that's a woman. You know, what are you doing? And then right then I was just like, I got to go home. Yeah. I just started going. I just started booking it. And I get home. Somebody had somebody had somebody called the car. And the cops immediately know, they're like, oh, okay. And they knew since I lived in the wineries right there.

It's literally like, it's right there on the corner of winery and Lane. They're like, oh, okay, we know who's to go to because they had already had run-ins with me. And so they come to my house, you know, come in, freaking take me out. They find the dope. They find the gun. There was homeboys there because we were partying. And I was coming back from, you know, I was coming back home. And that's how they got the gang enhancement.

And is that, I see. And now is that just by association? Just by association. Wow. They do you like that. That's crazy. At least in those times. Yeah.

Yeah. Those were still the really draconian over strict, you know, three strikes. They tried to, they were trying to strike everybody out in those days. And then it didn't help that they had Operation Bulldog going on. And they were just cracking down. Right. If you even had a red, one time I got a violation because I had a red envelope. Wow.

My PO took me back to when after I signed for the strike and was, you know, out. My PO came to the house, saw I had a red envelope and took me back to jail for it. Wow. I get out. There's an empty beer can during one of his visits like the next week. There's an empty beer can in the gutter. He took me back to jail. Wow.

And it got to the point to where the judge. was like, even the judge was like, dude, what are you doing? Like, a red envelope and an empty beer can in the gutter and you're in, you're bringing him. He's like, man, if he like has a picture of him and some homeboys, then bring him in on a gang violation or, you know, whatever. Like, no, you know, and so they kick me out. Do you think there's something about that area, those ancillary areas, not the big cities, but these smaller places that make the violence worse and the reaction from the law enforcement

worse? Yeah. Yeah. It's very much like, I see it like as just humans being human, right? Like, you always want to up the ante. You know? Right, right. And so when they came out with Operation Bulldog, there was a lot of homeboys that were targeting cops that would be like, you know, cops would find pictures and it was pictures of them. And they would have like the X through their face because they'd be like, we want to get this guy. Right. So it kept escalating. Yeah. Yeah. It kept escalating. And as a matter of fact, if I'm not mistaken, the reason why there was Operation Bulldog was because there's obviously a lot of police encounters, you know, you know, homeboys shooting at police, you know. But a really bad one was, man, I'm drawing a blank on his name. Doesn't matter.

We don't know. Yeah. Yeah. He shot a cop. He was from Lewis Street. He shot a cop. And then so that just, they were just like, okay, yeah. You guys want to keep doing this.

You guys want to now make it like a regular thing? No, we're on you. And now that I think about it, as, because Operation Bulldog kicked off in like 2006, I want to say, 2007, 2008 and 9, the cops killed a lot of Homeboys. They killed a lot. Night Out was killed because they said he had a gun. It was a cell phone. you know, there was a homeboy named 12-pack.

He, the same thing. And they would just say, oh, he was reaching. And then boom. Yeah. You know, that was like their go-to thing. Yeah. You know. Damn.

Yeah. And so, like you said, like it just escalated. It just kept, everybody just kept up in the ante, you know. So you get swept up in this drag net. Yeah. And now you're validated, as they say. And you're, you've got a strike. Yeah.

and sometimes you can get two strikes in one charge, I've heard. So your next, you know, the next time could be 25 with an L. Yeah, yeah. But a year later, you get to catch a Fed charge at 19. What happened, bro? That is young to go to the feds. What happened? Yeah.

As a matter of fact, all my co-defendants, they were 19 and 18. And so, oh my gosh, this is a freaking, just thinking about it, I'm like, you freaking, being wet behind the ears, right? My co-defendant has a homeboy who is, he's an older homeboy, right? And he actually did time for murder, you know, he did a bunch of time for murder. he he's now running the apartments that my homeboy lives in. Selling dope. Yeah, he's doing his thing, right?

My homeboy's doing his thing. You know, selling dope here doing this. You know, whatever, whatever he was getting involved in. And then he started getting really cool with the, he was like the apartment manager. You know, he started getting really cool with him. And the apartment manager asked him, hey, can you get an AK? And right away, he was like, oh, yeah, yeah, hold on. So he hits me up.

and asked me if I can. And I'm like, well, yeah, I can. Just, you know, give me some time. You know, next time I go up to Oregon, I'll, you know, I'll get it. But the apartment manager was very adamant. Like, no, no, no. Like, can you get it like by tomorrow? Right.

And I just saw it as someone that was really eager, right? I don't know much about them at the time. And so I was just like, no, I can't, bro. Like, no, I need to go to Oregon. It's a 10-hour drive. No, you know. So then that kind of, that kind of, you know, dies down. About a month later, he comes to my homeboy, the apartment manager, and says, hey, I have a good friend that pushes dope.

Like, he's a mule for, you know, some of these big time guys. And he takes dope and drops it at a stash house here in Fresno. Like, do you guys want to go rob it? and when my co-defendant came to me and told me about it, I was like, dang, that sounds kind of good. And I was like, okay, hey, like, let's check it out. So we go to the first meeting, and it was in a parking lot of a McDonald's

on Shields and Blackstone. I roll up, my two co-defendants roll up, the apartment manager rolls up, and the supposed drug mule. Well, come to find out, the drug meal is the undergrubes, is the undercover ATF agent. The apartment manager is a confidential informant.

After getting out from doing time for his murder, he got caught selling dope, flipped, and was now a confidential informant. So I go to the first meeting. There was a total of four, and I only went to the first one. Excuse me. I only went to the first one.

Yeah. Yeah. And on the fourth one, that was when they were supposed to go do it. And how much dope do they say would be in there? Like, I think they said like pounds. No, like, I think they were like trying to play it off like 20 keys or something or 10 keys. I forgot the exact, but it was like keys. It wasn't like, you know, ounces or pounds.

And like that's what got my attention at first. I was kind of like, okay, you know. I was like at the time, you know, I'm not going to lie. I wasn't like, like I said, I wasn't like, I said, I wasn't. wasn't pushing keys. It would have taken me a long time to get rid of that, you know, long time in the drug world. Yeah.

Like, you know. Yeah, you would have been on if you had hit that score. Yeah, exactly. It was real. Yeah. And so the day of, they, they again, pull up to the McDonald's and my buddy, my coat of finish is blowing me up, calling me, hey, man, where are you at? I was like, man, I already told you.

Sorry, let me elaborate. before the fourth meeting, I already told him like, nah, bro. Because I had a bad feeling. Something just, there was actually one day where I woke up and my stomach was just in knots, you know, and I was just like, nah, bro. That's, and to me, I was like, nah, that's all I needed to be like, this doesn't seem right, you know. And so I, you know, when he's blowing me up the day of, I'm like, bro, I already told you. Like, no, you know, like, I'm not, no, I'm good. You guys, if you want to, go ahead.

You know, I was kind of like content with what I was doing. You know. And then like I said, I started thinking about it. And like I said, I wasn't going to be able to push all that dope hell of fast, you know? And so for me, it was like, do I really want that burden, that risk of having all this dope? And I'm just little by little getting rid of it, you know? Like, and then I get popped for having all that dope, you know? So the day of, like I said, they're blowing me up.

The undercover ATF agent, he is like, no, no, he needs to be here. He needs to be here. Looney needs to be here in order for us to go. Wow. And so they literally sat in the car for like 20-ish, 30-ish minutes, and they're just blowing me up. And you can hear on the wire, you know, my co-defendant was like, man, he's not answering. And plus he just, you know, he said no.

Like, you know, it doesn't, you know. And so they finally just say, okay, let's roll. Let's get out of here. So they take off driving. They were supposed to go to the storage, this shed, you know, to get the guns to go do the job. And when they pull up you know, ATF,

Department of Justice, you know, even I think it was, you know, oh yeah, parole also pulled up. A bunch of just different teams, you know, bam, and popped them. Well, at the time,

what I did in between all this is I worked at a tattoo shop. And so, I'm now at the tattoo shop later that day. And I had, you know, called my co-defendant a couple times just to see where he was at and like what happened. But he didn't answer. So I was just like, oh, okay, whatever. He'll get back to me when he is all happy.

Look at it. We came up. Or if he got shot or whatever, you know, because just you're not going to just walk into a drug stash house and just, you know, take your little dope, you know, and take off. No, there's going to be some confrontation, right? They're always guarded. So I remember looking out the front door of the shop And boom, like that Out of nowhere he came around the corner

It was an ATF agent And he had his rifle on me And was like, do not move You take off running, I'll shoot you I was like, oh, all right They came in, boom, booked me and Damn, with other people in the shop? Yeah, yeah, it was actually just me and a friend of mine

Okay It was just me and a buddy but there was no customer, no, none of that. And when I went out, they were in like soccer mom vans, suburbans, you know, and I was just like, dang, man, the whole, the whole street was blocked off, you know? Wow. And so we, we catch that case and we fight it for about a year and a half.

So was that the feds setting that whole thing up? Yeah. Yeah, right. It was ATF. It was ATF. Wow. And we at first were trying to get it thrown out based on. outrageous government conduct.

Because our case was, we would have never done this had you guys never came and proposed this. It's entrapment, basically. Yeah, you know. And then what helped me out even more was that I didn't show up the day of.

But then what the DA was saying was, well, I didn't show up to a meeting and specifically say, no, I'm not involved. That was like their little workaround. And I'm like, but I didn't show up. And I told my co-defendant, no, like, you know. So as we're, the way it played out was kind of shitty.

I ended up getting the same time they did. Did you take, well, hang on. So you're in county jail fighting it for a year and a half. Yeah. What are they trying to give you? Are they offering you plea deals? So, yeah, our first plea deal was like, man, it was like somewhere around like 30 years or something. Yeah.

That was our serious offer that they brought to you. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah, I'll get out when I'm, you know, my 50s. But it was because they were trying to say, so they were trying to get, you know how I said that there was, it was Keyes of dope. They were trying to say that, okay, that was going to be a charge. So we had the possession of cocaine. Of a fake amount of cocaine? Yes. Yes.

Yes. Did you guys, you guys probably didn't have good lawyers, did you? had just the regular old... You had the U.S. attorneys or the federal public defenders. Yep. Exactly. Who are good lawyers a lot of times. Yeah. Yeah. In the state. Yeah. I mean... What? What? Yeah. So our attorneys were actually pretty good lawyers in the state. Like, they fought state cases. This is federal court, though. Yeah. Okay. So they fought state, they did state cases and federal cases. I see. And so the way it works is they have a panel of lawyers

that opt in to be on that panel. And then they'll just say, okay, availability based on cases. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there were good lawyers in the state, you know. And they actually kind of helped us during our mini trial. But I'll get to that in a bit. The reason why our first offer was so high was because then we had the possession of guns.

And then what really screwed me over was my history. So your juvenile history and your state history can be counted towards federal sentencing. Yes. Oh, wow. Yeah. But so at first, that's what we thought. My lawyer then did some digging and he found out that my juvenile for the AK could not be

used against me because it was a juvenile. Yeah. So that helped a lot. That then brought me down. They have like this tier, you know, of, you know, your criminal history and how much time you'll get. Points, they call it. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. That helped me out a lot. So, so once that happened. we get that first plea deal. We're like, you guys are tripping. We then get another plea deal for 15 years. And we were like, nah, dude. Like, come on, 15 years for something you guys made up.

And then our lawyers got together and they're like, well, look, we're finding stuff out. Right? The ATF agent isn't as wholesome as he portrays to be. the CI is also dirty. So we then were like, no, we're going to do, we're going to get it. We went to like this mini trial and it was to get it thrown out. It's called a motion. Yeah, there we go.

Thank you. Thank you. Motion, right, to dismiss it based on outrageous government conduct. Well, the CI was still selling dope. The CI was given a brand new Ford F150. He didn't report it on his taxes. he didn't report the 18,000 that he was getting from the ATF. He didn't report any of that.

So now they're on the ATF agent like, yo, why is your guy doing this? You know, you're his handler. Why is he, you know, did you know about this? And he couldn't lie on the stand. And he was like, yeah, you know. And so what ended up happening was we started to look really good. It actually was looking like we could beat the thing, right? We could beat this case.

Yeah. So then I'll never forget. The judge says, come back tomorrow and I'll give my ruling on this hearing. And so I'm thinking like, oh, like, okay, tomorrow's do or die. Like he can either say I dismiss and you guys are free to go home or no, I don't. And now we're really screwed because we either take it a trial or we sign for more than 15. Yeah, because the DA at that time was like, oh, okay, you don't want the 15. I'm taking it back.

And it's going to be more next time. So that was like early afternoon. We get back to the county jail. At that time I was in isolation because I was just running amok in the county jail. What do you mean? Riots, you know, yeah, riots, you know, hitting someone, like just getting into doing the most, really. Okay, so this is, this is Fresno County Jail? is that a pretty rough county jail?

Yes, and no, it just depends on where you're at. You're kicking off riots in the county. Yeah, yeah. With a Fed case you're fighting? Yeah. One time there was a, so what like started everything was I was in the main jail because there's three. There's the old jail and the main jail and the north jail.

And if, you know, you're, because there are some homeboys in the north jail, but they're not seen as like as disrupted. or like they don't have like a lot like a big history right so so if you're you know in the in the mix you know typically go to main joe they have on one floor they'll have uh f pod which is typically like where the guys that have been to you know pelican bay salina like the guys that have a history you know they go to f pod and then like d e and c those are medium security b is uh like max security um and then a is ad sec. and then each floor has what's called FF and it's just like one little hallway and when you look out your cell door it's just a brick wall and it's like 10 cells

and then like your showers down at the end of the hallway and then they have a camera in the freaking shower really yeah the first time I went in there and looked up I was like oh what the I'm sure that's not being abused by some pervert right and so so at that time like I said I was in FF

because I was just, you know, running amok. I was, you know, a riot happened when I was in C-Pod. I go to the whole fighting and beating the shit out of people. Yeah, yeah. There was one fight I got into there. I got, I got whoop. I got my eyebrow split. But I didn't get in trouble for that.

I didn't get in trouble for that. You know, the COs weren't really, they didn't really trip off one-on-one. It must be just gang-banging in there. Yeah, yeah. That's what it was. Yeah. And then so,

Like I said, I was in FF. I'm in isolation. My lawyer pulls me out at like, I don't know, around five, six around there. And he's like, look, we got a sweet deal, but only if you sign. And I'm like, okay, like, what do you mean? He's like, yeah, if you don't sign this, then your two co-defendants don't get this time. Because what he was saying was like, it looks really good for you, but your two co-defendants are kind of screwed if you get off. because you didn't show up.

They did. So it's automatically saying like, okay, you guys are guilty then if he's not guilty. You know, so that's what the DA offered. She offered us the seven and a half years and I had to sign. If not, it was off the table. I see. So basically you guys are being tried almost separately. Like was your motion separate because you didn't show up to the scene?

No, it was all together. It was all together. And of all things, I was ahead of the indictment. I'm like, how does that work out? know. But, but yeah. I see. Yeah. I see. So they were going to supersede you.

Yeah. If you didn't sign. Yeah. That's what my lawyer was trying to, he was going to be like, hey, if you don't sign, we'll, we'll push this. He's like, because I, I think you have a really good chance of beating this. Wow. Wow.

But then I'm like, well, then I kind of screw over my co-defendants, you know, like what happens if they get the 15, 20 years, you know? And now I'm like, to me, I just saw it as like, that's kind of like betrayal. Like, you know what I mean? That's like. I know he's the freaking idiot that got us into it but it's kind of like at the same time I didn't want that on my

not only did I not want that on my conscience but I didn't want that like on my like my street cred you know like I don't want to be in Fresno and they're like now I'm a target because it's like you know and at the time my parents lived there still so I was like I don't want to bring any kind of drama to them because I decided to beat this case

and then screw over my co-defendants you know and you weren't planning on getting out of the life if you got to the streets. So you still needed your rep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was still, I had no idea of anything else besides that, that bubble, you know. Wow. How long did you have to think about it when your lawyer brought it to you? Probably about five, ten minutes. I just ran through like the scenario. Okay, what happens if you don't sign it? And I was like, I don't want that. I don't want that, you know. And so I signed and then we went back to

court because you have to go back because, you know, we had the hearing. Uh, the judge, uh, was like, okay, you guys signed. Okay. Uh, then I'm not going to give my ruling, uh, come back for sentencing. We went back, got sentenced and then off we went. Wow. Yeah. Wow. You're off with bidding with the big boys. Yeah. Yeah. Because I went to a USP right off the bat. Wow. Yeah. And my co-defendants went to an FCI. I was like, head of the indictment. I'm now in a USP way, my first joint was in Coleman 1, way out in Florida. Wow. And both of them got to go to prisons in California. Your security level must have been from all your fighting and your your record already.

Yeah. And then not only that. Back then what would happen is if you got sentenced, I know it's way different now, but back then is you got sentenced. And then you would go to Laredo, which is the county jail for Bakersfield. Okay. Rough. Rough. Really? Yes.

Rough. And the COs play no games. Really? No games. I give it to the guys from Bakersfield and even the guards. They will rock with you. Like no if ands or butts. Like they'll fuck you up?

Yes. And or if you fuck them up, they'll okay, you won that. You know, but they'll take their shit off. The guards will take everything off and say, let's, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And fist fight with you? Yes.

I respect that. Yeah, dude. So, and it's, and you. And it's, that's rough. You know, that's like where I always say, like, you know, a couple of my buddies from school that, you know, ask questions. And they ask, like, who's the toughest and this and that? And who's the craziest, right?

They always want to know. And I always have to, like, bring up, like, the, even though they're Souragnos, right? Even though they were my enemies at the time. The ones from Bakersfield when I was there in Lairdough, you know, like, because, like, the whole, like, what I would always hear growing up and, like, what I would see also too, like in the streets, would be like some, you know, like the South Siders didn't know how to fight. They wouldn't fight, you know.

They'd only fight you if there was like 10 of them and two of you, you know. And then when I got to Laredo, I was like, oh, no, that's not the case. You know what I mean? That's not the case. They're fighting guards. Yeah, they're banging, bro. They're getting it, you know. And they're super respectful.

At least the ones that I met. The ones that I met, they're very convict. They're very, you know what I mean? like, um, uh, when I got to Laredo, I was in, of course, I was in ad seg. And, um, and all the Sudanials there from Bakersfield knew that I was, you know, bulldog. And I had no homeboys. So they were like, hey, if you need anything, let us know. Like, we'll give you a care package. Just that we ask that when you get on your feet and you get situated, just pay back what you got, you know. Um, and it was funny too, because it was,

he was a so daniel from Vario Bakers and he gave me some coffee, some soups, and he was at my cell door and he was like, but just because we're shooting you this doesn't mean like everything's cool, like it's still on site if the door's crack.

I was like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I know, I know, I know. I know, I know. He was like, but... Is everybody there on their way to prison? Is that the story? Or they're fighting a case. Okay. Yeah, because, so what you'll have

is you'll have like, if you catch a camera, case in Bakersfield, you'll go to Laredo. You fight your case, whether it's state or or, or no, if it's federal, you'll go to Fresno. Because Fresno's like the, like the holding the hub. The hub for anybody

in like the Central Valley. And so, they, one of the Sudanians was fighting like a double murder. And then the other one, the one that shot me a bunch of, you know, coffee and soups. He was fighting

like a shooting or something. I don't know if he, I don't think he killed someone. I think he shot someone. But yeah, he was fighting. They were fighting their cases, you know. So you got shot to Coleman. Yeah. So I get to Coleman.

Yeah, from Laredo, I go to Victorville, Victorville to Oklahoma. Then I get to Coleman. What was Coleman? What was you being in a USP so far from home? You'd probably never been out of California. Well, except to go to Oregon. Yeah, except for Oregon. Was that a culture shock?

Was that an eye opening? Yeah, because it's so different. from California gang prison politics. Like, they allowed one-on-ones. So, like, it could be, excuse me, it could be, you know, a black guy from Florida and a black guy from Texas get into it. They'll agree, okay, now, we're not going to blow up the yard over it.

You guys just go to the cell and handle it. You know, you want to take a knife, take a knife. Okay, it's going to be a fist fight, go fight, and get it over and done with. Had you seen any knives or prison shanks or shankings before you got to Coleman. Oh, yeah, yeah, when I was in a county jail. Yeah.

Really? Yeah. And when I was in B-Pod, when I was in Max, so like I said, that riot that happened in C-Pod, I go to, I was in 3C, I go to the hole, and when I get out of the hole, they send me to 5B. And then in 5B, we got into it with the blacks because we had some homeboys that would sleep

from like, I don't know, it was like 9 o'clock at night until like five in the morning, right? Like they were like on a prison schedule. And then their neighbors were blacks that like slept pretty much almost all day and they were up on night. And they just kept banging on the tables, right? The table in your cell and they were rapping and just being loud. You know, and there's a couple of times where like the homeboys told them like,

hey, can you please stop that? Like we're asleep and you're banging on the table that's right here on other side of the wall. Like, we hear it, you know, and they didn't. They didn't stop. And so, I remember it was an older homeboy that had like, I don't know, five or six pieces. And he just went around like, hey, you don't have to accept it. Like, it, you know, if you say no, don't worry, like just, you know, as long as you get off, you know. And of course, I was still in that, in that mindset of like, no, I'm going to make a name for myself. So I was like, yeah, give me a piece. And I booked one black guy.

Booking them is when you hit him with a shack. Yeah. Yeah, I hit him a couple times in the side. Do you ran up in their cells? No, no, it was just in a day room. Wow. It was just in a day room. Holy shit.

And it was messed up, man. This poor old man, he was an older homeboy. He was like, I don't know, close to 60. But he wasn't like in the best of shape. And the reason why he was in Max was because he did a bunch of time for like a murder. I don't know in like the 70s or something, right? And as I'm like booking the guy, right,

I hit him like two or three times on the side because he was on the floor. I was fighting this guy. And then I looked over and saw him. And I was like, okay, easy target, right? Book him. And then I look over and I see the poor old man getting stumped, bro, by like four or five black dudes.

And I'm just like, no, right? And so like me and another homeboy, like, try to make it over there to like get. him, you know, because like, it's an old guy, you know, he shouldn't even be on the, in the front, but the poor guy and, oh, and now that I'm thinking about it, the, the, he was coming out of the shower. There's, there's like three separate showers, right, that you can go in at any time. And he's coming down the stairs and he's walking in a dayroom from the stairs to a cell. And that's when they jumped on him, you know, and that's what, you know what I mean, instead of,

you know, because the blacks knew that we were, they weren't stupid. They could see that we were, making moves to get at them, right? And as soon as that happened, that's when we just boom. Because I remember I was playing Pinochle. And it was funny because one of my good friends, he's a Muhammad. And he, I would always play against him.

So it was me, my partner and Pinochle, him and his partner. Well, when it went off, I wasn't going to crack him. I cracked his partner and me and him started fighting. Wow. Yeah. And then so then, again, like I said, I saw the guy on the ground. I booked him. I looked over and I saw the poor old man, dude. And so me and, like I said, me and a home boy went over there. And we didn't make it far because we got jumped on, right?

Really? Oh, so this is a whole melee. Yeah. Yeah, it was like. Did you get stabbed? No, no. Okay. No.

That time I didn't. They didn't see it coming that you guys had knives on you. No. No. They just saw like people move, like they saw the home boy moving, right? And like asking and, you know, being like secretive about it. So they were kind of like, oh, okay. And so then they started to like form together in the pod.

and kind of be towards like the front of the, you know, the entrance to the pod. And then, you know, COs came in shooting the pepper spray paintball gun. They're tasers. They laid us all down, you know. Did you get rid of your knife? Yeah, we all flushed it. We all flushed it. We all flushed it.

So these are like, can you describe how those are, I mean, prison toilets are like industrial strike. Yeah. Yeah. And it was gone. Okay. Yeah. It was like, there was no like, oh, crap.

No, it was like, you know. shoot them down and flush. Yeah. You know, and, of course, like, you can't sit there

and flush because it's, like, too flushes or something, you know, so, um, you know, you just would go to a cell,

you know, and there wasn't many of us that had pieces in a, right. So, what were our county jail piece? What was that made of? It depends.

I've seen some really nice county jail pieces that, like, were bangers. And then I've seen like little, just like a little, you know, that would just leave like a little hole. Yeah, just a little discipline.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, you know, so it just ranges. planning on hitting him in like an artery. Did you, did you try? No, I wasn't really thinking like that. Like, and when that, when it goes off, it's just like, oh, okay, who's around?

And, you know, and so, you know, I just hit him in his side because he was kind of like trying to get up. And that's when I booked him in his side. And he was like up against a wall, kind of like on all, almost like on all fours. Because somebody had dropped him. Something happened where he, he went down. So everybody's laid on the ground. They're bleeding.

Yeah, some of them were bleeding. some of them. Nobody told on you though? No. No. No, nobody did. They keep it down after that? Yeah. Like, you know, like, you know, they took out, like, who they thought would be, like, the troublemakers, you know? Really, they just kind of took out, like, the younger guys. They didn't even take you off the pod? No. At that time, no. Like, they waited, like, a week or so before the administration came or like, okay, you're going to ad sec now.

know. So, because it was kind of like, okay, we did what we had to do. You now aren't going to be banging on the damn table. You know, and it went back to normal. That's like the weird thing about prison and jail. You know, like you guys could just kill each other, try to kill each other. And then, you know, a week later, okay, we did what we had to do. Did you learn your lesson? Okay, cool, you know. And it's back to just normal programming. But at Coleman at a USP, people are getting killed. Yeah. They have real swords. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. As a matter of fact, I think it was like my second week there. I'll never forget. This dude's eyeball. He got killed. They stomped him. Actually, they didn't book him. They stomped him. They stomped him. And his eyeball came out. Yeah. He was a Solano. So he was Hispanic, but he didn't run with anybody. And so they just call him Solanos, you know. And at that time, this yard had a lot of Paisas. And he got.

He was drinking with some Paisas, and he just started mouthing off. He just started saying dumb stuff that you don't say in prison and got killed. Wow. Yeah, he got killed. And what's crazy is like... Paisus stomped him out. And they were never prosecuted. They couldn't, like, they couldn't, I don't know if they didn't have evidence or whatever,

but they had the Paisas in the shoe for like almost two years. Wow. Trying to like take them, you know, to the whatever, you know, holding, you know, other institution to go, you know, fight this case, and they just couldn't pin it on them. So, because all of them kept their mouth shut. Yeah. No. I think when there's like those gang killings, there's so many people, they don't know,

unless somebody tells, they don't know who to stick it on. Yeah. And that's what happened. They all kept their mouth shut. And Jesus. Two years later, they all came out. Brickin super pale white. Right.

Yeah. Exactly. Amaciated. Tortured. So they came back to the yard? Yeah. They let them back out. Wow.

They let them back out. So in the feds at Coleman. it's different than the state in terms of the gangs and the ethnicities. Can you describe who the sets were, like amongst the Latinos there? Yeah. So you had all, you had all, uh, Baisas. Who are the Baisas? Mexican, Mexican nationals.

Right, that's right. You had some that, um, so for instance, you'll have like some Latinos that are here in the states. that are working for cartels and doing their thing. And when they go in, they just roll Pisa. And they'll roll Pisa. And they probably speak Spanish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are like the Spanish-speaking gangs.

Yeah, and then you also had the Netas and the 27s and the 25s. And those are Puerto Rican gangs. Oh, wow. Yeah. And so a lot of the time, or the majority of those guys, they were actually in prison in Puerto Rico. And they were doing the most. so they shipped them to Tacoma One.

Those guys are probably crazy. I met some crazy-ass Puerto Rican. Those black, jabbering in Spanish fucking animals. And you know what was funny was like my first like encounter with one. You know, he, you know, like you know how we say, hey, what's up dog? Right. What's up, bro? Their thing is like, hey, kill the puppy.

And like when you call me Poppy, I was like, bro. You thought it was gay. What the hell? Like, what do you? And, like, my, my home boy had to be like, no, dude, Puerto Ricans, that's what, you know. And I was like, oh, okay. But at first I was like, like, kind of throwing off like, bro, you just called me poppy. Like, what the hell, you know?

Yeah, shut up and take this dick. Stop being gay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to show you what gay is, you know. Wow. So you're, you're isolated. There's no bulldogs at Coleman, I assume.

No, there was none when I rolled up. So who were you going to rock with? There was, so there was, there was NF on the yard. There was Nortenos. And at first, they wanted to, like, make sure that it wasn't, like, a threat, right? They wanted to make sure, like, okay, he's not going to attack us or, you know. So there was two of them in the unit that I was in, and they came. They're respectful.

They chopped it up with me. They're like, look, man, like, we know the state is the state. Like, let's not focus on that. You know, right now it's the feds, you know. They had asked me how much time I had. And at the time, I think I had like six years left or something, right? And so, you know, were you short time and compared to most of these cats at USP? Like is seven and a half years?

How is that? No, no, there were some guys there that were doing, you know, four, five, ten. But there were a lot of lifers. There were a lot of lifers. I meant a lot of lifers and a lot of guys that had like 200 years or some crazy thing, you know. And so, you know, when I told them that, you know, and they, you know, kind of put me up on game. They're like, well, hey, you know, there was a bootle. here about six months ago, he was hell of cool.

You know, we didn't have problems with him. He didn't have problems with us. You know, whenever we would make meals, we would include him if you wanted to. So you're more than welcome to like, you know, be cool. You know, like it's, there's no problems here. Yeah. You know, like there's a red light, you know. Right.

And I feel like I feel like I got a lot of schooling from the Norteos that were in my unit. because I would see how they moved. Because when I first got to Coleman, I was an idiot, bro. I was so wet behind the ears. Like I was 20 when I rolled up. And I had a knife. And for whatever reason,

I thought it would be a good idea to wrap it in clothes, you know, like some sweatpants and stuff, and put it inside of my locker. just dumb stuff that you're like bro you you're an idiot they search those yeah you know like what are you doing you know no that's not how you move in prison

where do you move where do you stash man it man it could be there's so there's certain spots where you move a locker out of the you can actually get the locker off the wall but then the CEO started getting hit to that there are certain things that you could do to where it could like stay inside of your toilet right where you could like you know tape it up against the inside inside, freaking keister it, fucking put it on the yard, a bunch of different ways, right?

But not wrapped in clothes. Of course. Inside your locker, you know? And it was actually one of the, one of the crips that I got cool with. He was a lifer. He was the one actually that gave me the knife, right? And when he found out, he was like, bro, what the hell are you doing? he was in his 40s.

He'd been down a long time. He was a lifer. Yeah. You know, he was a convict through and through. Like, you're just a kid, so it's not expected that you should know how to bid yet. Yeah, exactly. And so he kind of put me up on game. And then there was, there was two Nortenos there in the unit that were like,

nah, bro, like, this is how you should move. Were you expected to have a weapon, though? Like, is everybody at the USPs pretty much got to have access to one? Yeah. It's advised. You know? And, and if you don't have one, then. then be super respectful, be mindful of what, of what and who you're talking to, how you move, right?

Like, if you and I are talking and someone just comes up and, hey, Looney, hey, you know, and like, that's super disrespectful to you. So it's like, yo, dude, you'll see us talking, you know, things like that. It's that you just learn just to how. And what's crazy is you'll see a lot of like, I just call it like over respect, you know, like they're super, super, super super, super. respectful, you know, because they just don't want to have anyone think that they're crossing a line. Right. Because you'll always see that. It's over like sometimes the tiniest thing, you know, and it's like, oh, okay, that's it.

Now the Texas blacks and the Florida blacks are going at it, you know. And that means somebody's getting staff. Yeah. Someone's getting booked. Someone's getting. Life flatted out. Did you see that? Yeah.

Yeah. As a matter of fact, bro, the D.C. blacks. The D.C. blacks are fucking. fucking crazy. Really? Yes, bro. They are with the shit. Really?

Like, to the point to where, like, you know if you're, if you're going to have to go to battle with them or you're, you have some beef with them, you better not be afraid to die and you better be willing to kill. Like, all the DC blacks I met, like in the penitentiaries I was at, they are with the shit. But they're super respectful to, to the gangs of. of the yard. But they're professional prisoners.

Yeah. They're like a professional prison, federal prison gay. Yeah. And they're wild, bro. Really? Wild.

They'll freaking kill you, rape you, and then stab you some more, or they'll just rape you and beat your, like, they're wild, bro. They're wild. That seems to be,

that was the rumor in there that they would, they would rape you. Oh, they would hard are you. Yeah. Oh. As punishment. Super hard are.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, but it ain't gay, bro. But they're not gay. They don't play that gay shit, but they will absolutely lovingly hard are you? Yeah, hard are you. That's crazy.

Did you hear about that happening while you were there? As a matter of fact, there was one of my, one of my, my, my, you know, he became a cool dude, man. He became like a good acquaintance. He was from Beaumont, Texas. He was a lifer over crack, bro, the smallest amount of crack. And he got freaking life, right? I hope with the laws, he's out now. You might be out now.

Yeah. So, but at the time, he was lifer. And, you know, he was talking about one time when he was in Beaumont, there were D.C. blacks that were in the shoe, didn't want to take another D.C. black as a cellie. They forced it. Then they raped him and killed him. You know what I mean? So it's like, they're with it, bro. Did the violence?

Did you hear of that happening while you were? were at Coleman? Not while I was at Coleman. I mean, they, did they put in any work when you were there? Yeah.

Yeah. There was one incident. Because like I said, like a lot of people know like, okay, if you're going to fuck with them, you better either step up or just do it moving,

you know? And so there was, there were some incidents, but nothing happened because they, they didn't want the problems with the D.C. blacks, you know,

but it did happen when I was in, in McQuary. The D.C. blacks got in. with the Florida blacks and the D.C. guys killed two Florida guys. Wow. Booked them. Yeah. And, um, you know, and at that time, now that I'm thinking about it, that was like the beginning of McQuarrie really turning into like not pressing charges for some

reason. So when that happened, they, um, they went to the shoe. I want to say that they were the first ones not to get prosecuted. So then what happens is everyone sees that and they're like, oh, it's open season. So then what happens? The whites kill someone. They don't get prosecuted. Wow. And, and, and I know, like, there's always, like, these jokes and rumors about white boys in prison.

The white boys go hard. I've met some crazy-ass AB members that go fucking hard. Did you meet actual AB members? Yeah. Not just, like, their subsidiaries? No, actual AB members. Wow. Yeah, from Texas.

Like, they. Serious dudes. Yeah, they're serious dudes. And, but, again, super respectful, very convict, like, you know. Did you feel? Did was most of the violence contained within the races? Did it or was did it ever spill over into a riot? Yeah, or like a like a black on white, a Latino on white.

No, no. There was one time when I was in McQuarrie, it almost happened between the Latinos and the whites. And again, it stemmed from a stupid little, tiny little incident to where I was like, oh, okay, you know, you know, the yard's going to go up on this. I forgot exactly what it was. even at the time I remember thinking like, we're really going to like fight all these whites because one white guy like, all right, whatever, you know, like,

it is what it is. But at the time I'm thinking like, what the hell? But what ended up happening was the whites removed him. They got him off the yard and it avoided going up. You know, so. And that's the one thing too about whites. They won't, they won't check you in. You know, like they're.

So what you'll have is like sometimes with the Paisas, if they have a guy that, shouldn't be on the yard. They'll just walk them up to the, in the feds, it's called SIS. It's an IGI. So they'll take them up to the SIS office and they'll just check them in and just say, hey, you know, you can't be here. You know, the whites aren't doing that. They're going to take you off. They're going to, yeah, they're either going to book you or stomp you out. Wow. Yeah. That's, that's, at least that's what I saw. Yeah. You know, with the, the white gangs and in USB. How wild is that? It's like they're dictating the rules. Like, this guy can't be here. This is our yard. Yeah, right. And then the, and then the SIS just says, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cool.

Because they know what that means. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So Coleman, you really are running with essentially, you're taken out of the wing of the... The NF and the NF. Yeah, we were... What is the difference between the NF and the Nortenos?

Well, the NF is the Nostra family. So they're like the Mexican mafia to the Nortenios. That's right. Got it. So were you expected to... Was there work going on? It was an active yard? Yeah, it was active yard.

Yeah. But it was... So the way, like, the feds are doing it now... or I shouldn't say now because I've been out of prison for a while. At least back then was like they were separating north and south. So all the Soreno's, like you could, you would go to a yard and it was either going to be an all Sudea Noreno yard or it's going to be an all Nortenio yard. There was no, there was no mixing the two. So and when the, the messy situation that we were kind of in as bulldogs, we don't have a yard.

We don't even have the numbers for a yard, you know, in the feds. And so we would either roll up to a Sudea yard or a Noreno yard. or a Norteno yard. And the, like I said earlier, the tricky thing with the Surenios is that you don't know if they're going to attack you or not. You know, you can go out and, you know, it's on site or they'll just be like,

oh, okay, whatever, you know. And then the NF and Noreno's, well, it's a straight red light. So you'll see more of us on the yards with NF and Nortenoz. And we kick it tough. You know, I got a lot of Nortennial homeboys now, you know. But so that was an all Norteno yard, though.

All NF, Nortennial when you are. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So what were they up to? Man, just, bro, they're very military. Like, they're strict. They're very on top of their shit, bro. Yeah. You, they, they're very well put together.

That is a very, they almost run as like they're a small military unit. Like, they're very strict. Okay. Very just, like, they always have their boots on. When they come out to the yard, they patrol the yard before they even, uh, like clear the yard. So they'll come out, whoever's first on the yard,

they'll spin laps around the yard just to like, here, just to see things, just to be like, oh, hey, all the bices have their boots on. They're up to something. And they'll, and, and we, you know, congregate at one little area when you come out to the yard. And then they, you know,

they'll, like, debrief. Okay, hey, man, you know, we saw this. Or no, hey, everything's good. Everything's cleared. So he's like a scout. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And or like, you know,

hey, we saw someone digging up a piece. He may be up to something, you know, keep eyes on. careful. You know, yeah. And they know who's rolling up to the prison. Every time the bus comes, they know they have your name, number, all that. They're like, oh, okay, you know.

They knew you were coming. Oh, yeah. They knew. And what they do is every new member that comes out, they'll get their information. Hey, man, who you roll with? And every, you need to make sure that you have the information for every single member. Like, they're very strict. It sounds like they're organized, too.

Super, super organized. Did you have the option of joining them? Not joining them like, oh, I'm a North Daniel now. Yeah. But like rolling with them. Okay. So you couldn't have said that, hey, I want to actually be down with as a Norteno?

I actually could. Okay. I actually could. And like I said, I know a lot of NF guys and they're solid dudes. Solid. Like they, they, it kind of, it kind of now pains me that we are. like on site with them because I always saw them as like us. Like they're no different than bulldogs.

The only thing is our motto is like you can't tell me what to do. Right. Whereas like you have the NF, you know, that give out, you know, set down the rules and and you abide by them, right? But they are just like us. Yeah. And I saw that. You know, I have a lot of buddies from Salinas, you know, Stockton, San Jose.

And I was like, these guys are just like us. You know what I mean? super, I got really close with them there at Coleman, really close. And what were some of their rules? No drinking. Really? No drinking. Yeah, no drinking, no drugs. They didn't even sell drugs?

They did. They did, but it's very low key. And it's always very, like, specific members. Right. And even some of the other members don't know about it. Right. You know what I mean? You're just the one that brings the balloons in and sells to other clicks.

Yeah. Yeah. And for a while, I had a, I had a, I had a, I had a, I had a really good thing going in there where I was bringing in dope. What were you bringing in? Meth. I was bringing in meth, heroin. At Coleman? Yeah, Coleman.

Wow. Who's your connect? So, I, man, bro. She hates me now, but anyways, she was coming to visit, right? And she was living in Orlando, Tampa, Orlando. She'd go back and forth. And she was coming up to visit. Well, when you're at the, you know, when you're at visit,

you're probably a little closer than you and I, right? And it's the perfect way to get messages out, right? Because they're not listening. I could literally tell her, hey, call this number, da-da-da-da-da. You know, and like, do this, do that, whatever, right? Well, I had a, his name was smack. He was from Minnesota. And if you can picture a black man with the Mexican brocha, the big Mexican brush, that was him.

And his mom, his mom was Mexican, either or, right, but he had Mexican and black parents. Spoke Spanish, right, but looked like a black man with the big brocha, you know. And he had his girl visiting him and I would get the dope, have, you know, the girl that was visiting me. She would get it all together or sometimes just give it to his girl and he would bring it in. Okay. And how would they get it in just through the visiting? Yeah. So what would happen is she,

she would put it in her pussy. She would come in, right? Because you're allowed to kiss at the beginning and the end. So sometime during the visit, she'll go to the bathroom, take it out, put it in her mouth, kiss her man at the end,

and now he has the balloons. And now he's, does he swallow it? Yeah. And shit it out? Yep. Yep. And,

you know what, though, I'm not going to say the, the, the, the, the, the, the CEO's name because if he's still a CEO, I don't want him to get in trouble. But there was a particular, particular CEO that just did not give a fuck. Like, there was one time, like, throughout the visit, I was just, like, blown, like, we were just, like, tripping out because, like, people were just kissing throughout the whole visit. You know what I'm just like, what the heck? Like, you know what I mean? And, um, he didn't really search us, because, you know, you get strip shirts, obviously, right? And so

I think it was like a month Because they do like three months Right like they'll work a particular ship for three months And it was coming close to the end And one of the visits He was like all right guys You're gonna have a really dickhead crew coming up So y'all better have all the fun you want

Because once I'm gone it's it's a rap And so You know so guys were you know doing the most You know trying to you know touch on the girls Get as many balloons in too Yeah exactly And so So he would get this guy would get in a balloon of smack, heroin, let's say.

Smack, bring it in smack. Bring it in smack. Wow. And give it to you. Yeah. Or we would just, you know, divvy it up. You know, we would have certain arrangements because obviously he's doing a lot of the work. Yeah.

Right. He's the one that's going to get a bunch of time, you know. And heroin is crazy profitable. Yes. Yes. Three grams at the time were $1,000. What? Three grams were $1,000.

Wow. And I could get a gram in Fresno for $25. Wow. Yeah. Holy shit. So what were you, what were you paying on the gram? $25 a gram. Okay, so this was coming from Fresno. Yeah. So you would have it brought to Florida.

Yeah. Yeah. Mail it to Florida. Wow. Which didn't cost much either. And then three grams were $1,000. So you're eating. Yes.

And I was a tattoo man. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I was tattooing the Cubans who were also bringing in hell of dope. Wow. So they would just be like, hey, you know, you know how you tip your artist, right?

Get a tattoo tip. They would just tip me with heroin. Wow. Okay. So that was the big thing. Yeah. That's crazy. And the stronger the heroin, the better.

Yeah. Like if someone ODs on your heroin, that's it. You're pushing all your heroin is going. Yeah. Were there people that OD'd in there? Yeah. There's a guy that OD'd in Chowahaw, died. And died right in the Chowallaw?

Yeah, it's because they, he had some China white. That's why. He had some China white. Which is stronger than the brown stuff you were bringing. Than the tar. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. And so, because that's like the, if you have China white, then you're definitely like it's sold out. Winning. Yeah. Yeah. And so he, he OD'd in the,

in the chowal and died. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. It's strange that you didn't sell heroin until you got to prison. Yeah. How crazy is that?

Yeah. Right. But it's also too, like you, I wanted to live comfortably. I wanted to eat good, you know? I didn't want to open up my locker and no soups, no, you know. Yeah.

Were you paying this girl that? Yeah. She would be compensated. Okay. Yeah. But you're still making thousands of dollars, every time you get a balloon and how many grams would be in a balloon? It depends.

It depends because sometimes, so the, you know, smacks old lady, she, she was better at packaging. So she can make super tiny balloons and, you know, at least get three grams in there. You know what I mean? Because what they would try to do is like get as many balloons, you know, as possible. And you're not going to be able to swallow a huge ass freaking knot, you know. So, excuse me, she would, she would, um, she would, make a bunch of them and typically she since she knew that three were a thousand

she just would like to do three three grams and one little balloon and he could just it's like 9000 bucks yeah crazy and and are you chipping these off little by little stone but not even stone by stone I mean like tell us match ad size okay match head size yeah and how much does that sell for like 100 bucks insane yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so there were some guys

like so like I said it's it's a penitentiary you had like some heavy hitters there that like had lots of money you know you had um um what's his name behamine from afo ariano felix he was there at that time um you had a couple cats from new york that um i actually i think it's ramon benhamine got murdered he got killed by choppo no it's behamine are you sure yeah it's oh wow oh ramon was the crazy one yeah rome is the one that got killed yeah yeah yeah Yeah, it was Behamine. And then there were a couple other cats there, you know, Cuban guys that had money. And so, but they were, they didn't want to get in the mix of trying to bring it in.

No, because they are kingpins. They don't want to deal with the much of. Just bring it in and we'll pay you what you want. Right. You know, and then we'll break it down. Were you selling heroin to Benhamine? No. No, no.

I wasn't really close to him. Like, I knew him really well. But one of the Paisas, um, uh, Arturo Villarreal, uh, he's a good friend of mine. He was cool. Me and him got really close because we were in the same unit. I see. How does a guy like a real drug lord, like Benhamine Arayano Felix, right? Like literally he was one of the most powerful drug traffickers in the history of Mexico. Yeah.

Like a billionaire. Yeah. How do they live like on the main line? How do they live in the main line? Bro, so he would have two Baisas that would follow him around and like carry stuff for him. Like if he played handball and like the ball went off the court, he had someone to go get it. for him. Like, he just was like, like, like a god for them, you know, and, and, and,

like a rock star. Yeah. And, and I'll never forget the, the, the, the first time that Choppel got, got pinched, um, he, all the Rasa on the yard, he went and got like, orders for them and had a huge, huge, like, spread, essentially, like, where it was like burrito bowls, burritos, right? And, like, all the Rasa ate, because that's how happy he was at, that chopple got pop. Right.

Yeah. Yeah, dude. And we were just like, payback. Yeah, we're just like, okay. You know, like, all right. Eina burrito bowl and like, but he must have really kept to himself.

Like, in terms of like talking, he probably didn't talk to a lot of people. No, he really didn't. He would see us and, Hey, Buenos Aires. Like, he was very respectful,

but like, he was very quiet. He was very to himself. He was very like, um. Because he has nothing in common besides the Spanish language with, some guy

some gangbanger from Fresno he's nothing he lived he lived like a wealthy industrialist exactly exactly even though he was ordering drugs trafficking so many murders yeah yeah wow so he had bodyguards with them yeah he had and helpers

and helpers yeah wow yeah dude he he he um so he's not a target he's never getting no no because he's so respected and he has backup yeah yeah that too but also like he's also respectful himself yeah like he he wouldn't

involve himself in anything that could potentially bring like he wasn't gambling I mean if he was it was probably like something small you know what I mean but usually typically people get in trouble for gambling

because they can't pay a debt he would he could obviously pay the damn debt you know so we're the biggest things that people get in trouble for the lead to stabbings in there gambling and not being able to pay your debt

can you tell us about the gambling yeah so it's like that's a whole industry in there yeah it is bro Yes, it's like its own. See, that's the thing about prison. Like it, you know, out here in the world we'll have like tech, right?

You got software companies, a tech. Well, in there, it'll be like the people that could push a cell phone, you know, make a battery, right? And gambling is like its own little industry of prison, right? And so you'll have a ticket, man, right?

And it's just like Vegas. You know, you have your odds. You have your over and under. Whatever you want to, you know, basketball, football, college football, right? College basketball. Like, you have.

have your teams and you'll do your over and under. You do a four pick, six pick, whatever. You have all the odds. It's just like a miniature Vegas, you know? And the ticket man, typically from what I experienced, the ticket man has money. Right. Because he's the one to pay out.

Yeah. If he loses, he has to pay out. He has to pay out. Yeah. Just like a sports book like the mafia would run. There you go. Yeah. And so what would happen is you'll get people that will be like,

okay, well, I owe you 10 books or whatever, you know, 100 books or 30 books. or where. Books of stamps. Yeah, 30 books was 100 bucks, you know. And they'll just get into debt to the point to where they're like, I can't pay you back. Or what they'll do is they'll just check in.

You know, they'll PC it up. Wow. Because they can't pay the debt and they're like, I'm not going to get stabbed over this. I'm gone, you know. Right. You will get stabbed eventually. Eventually, yeah.

Or at least beat up. And then drug debts? Same thing. Same thing. You'll, you know, some guy will come to you and be like, oh, man, I'll get you next commissary day, you know, just get you. me a list. Next commissary day comes and oh my money didn't hit. And just a revolving. It's just a

never ending cycle. Now, how did you deal with that with this heroin that you're pushing? Did you give out? Because you want to go home. You want to avoid stabbing somebody unless it's self-defense or it's a riot like you have to. Yeah. How do you, what was your policy? Did you give out credit? So I, I, so my thing was, I was, I was always, kind of like on the radar because I tattooed and there's been previous times where I got busted. And at Coleman, they were kind of strict about tattooing. Like it would just, it just depended on what CO what, right? And so I was already kind of like on the radar for it.

So what I would do is I wouldn't even deal with it. I would give it to some of my homeboys and be like, okay, you guys sell it or whatever. Or I would just deal if I was like, yeah, you know what? I'm going to sell. This time I want to sell some so I can get some more money. I would just deal with someone that would send me the money right then and there or send it to, you know, to my friend outside. And that I knew were like good stand-up dudes that had good credit. They had good credit scores.

Okay. Got. So you didn't just sell to junkies. No. No. No. And I. Because that's dangerous for the dope dealer too.

Because now if they find out you are owed money, you have to go handle it. Yeah. And then not only that, sometimes you'll run the risk of the junkie snitching on you when they check in. Right. Because they'll say, hey, I can't be out there. I have a drug debt. Oh, who'd you get the drugs from? And then now you're getting popped.

Right. And if you don't get caught with it, now you're at least on their radar now. Exactly. And so now it's, it's, especially with, there was a particular SIS guy there at Coleman was a fucking beast, bro. Like, he had just like six cents where he knew, oh, you have a nice. come here and like take your knife and you're like what the and people swore somebody was snitching and they weren't what he had was like a listening device that he would drop sometimes like from the tower and he could listen to conversations as you're on the yard wow and it's hung by a wire or something he had a listening device one of the CEOs told us about so I mean I don't know if he like did it from like inside and like would open the window right but it finally got to the point to where like everyone knew if you're like kind of close to guard tower Don't talk about anything, especially if that window is open. You know, because he had like this freaking, I don't know, I've never seen it, right?

He's a real Boy Scout. Yeah. And, um. Would he ever catch you with a knife? No. You never got caught with a knife? I never got caught with a knife. Just a tattoo gun.

I've been, yeah, I got caught with a tattoo machine one time. I got caught and they were pissed about this for some reason, but I got caught with the list of guys that were going to come to the yard. And that, they were tripping on it because that's like a security thing for them. And they were freaking ripping balls on that one. But other than that, I never, the only trouble I got into was, I got away with removal. There was a bulldog that came to the yard that was no good that we got rid of.

Why was he no good? Because he, he lightweight snitched on my co-defendant. So my co-defendant, the one that got us all in this shit in the first place, he goes to Lompoc and, there's a bulldog on the yard and the Sudanios are like, like essentially bullying him. They're like, if you, you know, don't work out, you got to come out to the yard, you can't take your shirt off.

They're just basically like dictating his program. And so my co-defendant gets there and he's like, wait, what? Like we can't do, he's like, nah. So then my co-defendant beats him up. They go to the shoe and he tells him my co-defendant. My co-defendant has all the paperwork. He sends it to me. And lo and behold, a couple months later,

this guy is coming to the yard and I'm like this is weird you know like at all prisons you came here where his co-defin is at that has this paperwork like you could have gone to any of the penitentiaries you know and so and so we we got them off the yard what do you do we just stomped him out

we didn't we didn't book him we stomped him out was it was a good stomping yeah yeah yeah and a guy didn't even see it coming like that's that's what you do you rock him to sleep you know we made him feel comfortable game of care package and all.

Wow. Yeah. And at Coleman, like the killing grounds is, it was behind the handball court because the tower can't see. Wow. So the guy that, you know, with the missing eyeball, the Paisal killed him behind the handball court. And the only thing that saved him was one of the COs was at the window of the unit

and could see directly at us and saw us, you know. And he was in the unit that my home boy Paya was in. and Paya has super long hair. So he was, you know, so to give more, you know, context, it was after dinner and we didn't have night yard. So we, and since it was really dark, everybody was waiting to go back to the units.

That's when we did it. And so me and Paya, you know, once the CEO called it in, they hit the deuce's, you know, it's now everything's going off, right? me and Paya take off to go into the crowd of a bunch of men trying to get off the yard, right? I get away. Paya doesn't because, like I said, they were like, oh, yeah, we know who that guy is, right? What was really messed up was there was a Nortenio from Albuquerque, who's from Burke.

His name was Stalker. And he worked in the kitchen. He hears what's happening, the ongoing, right? He knows we're going to get locked down. he rushes to the shower and mind you he's in a different unit way across the yard he rushes to the shower

to take a shower before going in the cell he doesn't want to smell like the kitchen and one of the COs saw that and was like oh yeah he was trying to clean the blood off his boots and so they booked him for it and so he's in the shoe

and SIS I don't know how they didn't catch this because there was three bulldogs it was me Noi and Paya and it was me Impaya that did it and SIS never came to me or noee. They were tripping that stalker.

They would always come to a cell and ask him, why are you getting involved in bulldog business? And he just shut up. He wouldn't say anything because he knew if he like says anything, they might go back and be like, oh, well, there are some bulldogs on the yard. There are, you know, like, I mean, they knew all the gang members. You guys really beat him down if it warranted a sell in, sell lockdown.

Yeah. But that's how you get somebody off the yard. Yeah. And you had to handle it yourself as a bulldog. You couldn't have brought in reinforcements from NF or... No, no, no. You had to do it yourself. Yeah, so it was me and Paya that did it.

Wow. Yeah, it was me and Paya. So that's mandatory. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah, because we have the paperwork. Now, if we didn't have the paperwork and it was just like my co-defendant saying that, it gets tricky because now you're like, okay, I can't just take your word.

Yeah, I need proof. Yeah, what happens if it's not true? Now here we are. Now we're screwed, you know, so. Yeah. So did anybody ever slip through that you found out later had bad paperwork? I mean, it's happened, but not when, not during my time. You know, it's happened more like, like years before.

Like when it was like really like one or two bulldogs in the entire system, you know what I mean? And there were like way out in bum fuck Egypt or something, you know, like you didn't, they were like alone. you know but um but now like there's more of us going to the like it's yeah yeah no one's so now more bulldogs are going to the feds yeah right yeah because they're catching cases probably in california prisons and no so so what was happening is um uh jerry dire the mayor he's the mayor now of fresno he um when he was a police chief he he brought in the feds for for help so now what at that time what was happening is if you got caught with a gun it was fed case So that because, you know, California, they were, oh, okay, a gun, yeah, whatever, go home, you know.

And so nothing was happening. So Jerry Dyer wanted to make sure that we get more time. And so he brought them in. And so now, like, the majority of homeboys, they're all gun cases. Wow. You know. Don't even deserve to be there. Yeah.

But they got, you know, imagine that. Fed used to be for real criminals. Yeah, right. Not saying you weren't, but now you're becoming, well, now you kind of are. It's kind of making you a real thorough inmate, bringing in heroin, taking people off the yard. So you got away with that.

How long were you at Coleman for? I was there for about three years. That's a long time. Yeah, yeah. Man, dude, there were some guys there that had been there for like 15 years, 20 years. Yeah, on that particular yard. Wow. So you're getting comfortable.

Yeah. And then, man, I got my points drop enough to go to FCI. and they sent me to FCI Tucson nothing but Souranos so I get there and it was weird because oh my bad bro I don't mean to lie to you

there was a bulldog that slipped through but it was because he was there by himself so he was no good but the yard was full of active Sournios and he was slipping through because he was by himself and then once I showed up

it was like oh no I exposed him so what happened was was I get there. The administration's like, hey, can you go out to this yard? I'm like, yeah, I can go out, you know? And they're like, well, if people start disappearing or if people start checking in,

we're going to pull you off the yard. And I'm like, think of myself, do you like, what? I'm like, it's a yard of Surreños. I'm from Fresno. And I'm thinking to myself, like, how would people check? Like, I could see maybe if I was like black hand or something.

You know what I mean? And now a sudden, you know, Sudanians are checking in. But I'm from Fresno. And so I just was like, all right, whatever, you know? And I just was like, no, I'm good, bro.

Like, you can let me out. Nothing's going to happen. I make it out. I make it to my unit. And I make a little tomahawk. Make a little tomahawk out of my razors. And in my unit, there was only one suedennial. And so when I saw him, you know, of course he, hey, where are you from?

Right. He does all that. And I freaking slice him. And I hit him in the face. And then I piece him up a couple times and he drops. Then when. So the way FCI Tucson, the units are designed is you have like this main floor and you have like these stairs that lead to cells up here. And then this main floor like kind of goes down and the bottom cells are kind of like, you know, blocked off.

It's weird how they have it designed. Right. And so I got them down there where like the CEO couldn't really see. And I'll never forget. even after like I dropped him and he was on the ground, I looked over and like how, like where it was, I could see the CO's boots in his office just standing there.

He was doing something. And I was thinking to myself like, oh, damn, he's right there, you know? But in the process, I dropped the piece. So I whack him and then I hit him a couple times and I dropped the piece. Well, there was this black dude from Fresno that knew I was from Fresno and later on picked it up for me and flushed it.

Yeah. So it's basically a paper. Tell us what a Tomahawk is. So what it was is I made it out of like the little tiny little toothbrush they give you. A little piece of cardboard from the toilet paper roll, string from my boxers, and then the four razors. So I put four razors together in the toilet paper roll, the little piece that I had. And then I attached that to the toothbrush. a little.

And that's a slasher. Yeah. Yeah. And so I hit him on the face. So that leaves four big. Yeah. And it's, they can't stitch it because it's so,

you know what I mean? Like it's four of them put together. Right. So that causes a lot of blood. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It did. And then because he went, he ended up going to the shoe later on. He had like this red. Like his whole face was red. Like the skin was just red. Yeah. You know what I mean?

It was weird. And then he had the mark. But no. what, I didn't. So you got away with that. Yeah. Well, for the time being, they hit me for it later because they saw the cameras. But I then was able to make it, I clean up because I busted my knuckles.

And they called chow. And so I make it out. And I'll never forget this particular unit. The way they did stuff was like if the unit was like the cleanest. And I don't know, they did, they were doing, basically if they were like good inmates, they would go to Chow first for the week. So this particular unit that I went to was going first. And so I get out, I make it to the Chowall Hall and where the Suryanials would sit,

there's no one there, right? Because we're the first unit. So I go, I put my tray down. I'm walking back. And by now the Suryno that I hit is talking to another Suryno in the next unit because they're now coming to Chowryno. because they're now coming to Chow. Right? Is he bleeding?

Yeah. Yeah. He's just talking with a gashing wound? Yes. I don't want to go to the doctor. Yeah. Please help. No.

And so then they, they, they, like the way it was structured was like a small, like little hallway. Kind of almost like that area right there. And like you would get your train come and walk into the chow hall. And as soon as they saw me, they freaking, boom. They rushed towards. me, yeah. And we start fighting. Wow. And so I cracked the big guy first because the guy that that I hit, he was kind of a big dude, right? He was closer. He was closer to me. He got to me first before the other South Sider did, right? And so I hit him a couple of times, but this time I

didn't drop him. And then the other Sudaniania was now hitting me. So me and him start fighting. That's when the bigger dude kind of just wrestles me up against like a table, you know, and he's just holding on to the table and holding on to me to make sure that I don't move. That's all he was doing. He didn't care about trying to punch me or anything. So I'm like trying to hit the, the Sudanio, and he's trying to hit me. And we're just like going back and forth, me and the other South Side, right? It's a dangerous place to be.

If you were in USP, they're going to come up with shanks. Well, isn't that's a move, right? They grab you. And then the other guys come up. Yeah. Yeah. So good thing, I mean, he didn't have a knife. But you're in the chow.

So most people aren't going to try to kill you in the chow. Yeah. Why did you take off on this guy? Why did you do that? Was that the guy that was no good? No, because so, so at this time, I wasn't going to take the risk of being on a yard where I was being told what to do. And if I didn't comply, then I would get hit. You know, I rather.

So that was preemptive. Yeah. Because you knew it was a green light, Serenios versus Bulldogs. Yeah, at certain prisons. At certain prisons. And this one at Tucson was. Well, well, they had a bulldog. there, but he was no good, but they didn't know that.

And so my mind was like, I'm not going to sit here with a no good bulldog and Souragnos that, like, at a moment's notice can just be like, hey, man, you know, you need to take, you know, put your shirt on, you can't be out here with your Fresno show. And, you know, like, I wasn't going to take that risk, you know. So almost like you took yourself off the yard. Yeah, in a way, in a way, you attack and you're now, you know, know, have kind of gained that, that cred, you know. Okay.

So they beat, did they beat your ass? No, I mean, the, the other Saturday, he tagged me pretty good. He, he, he, he kind of lit me up. And then the COs came in. That was maybe 10 seconds. You know what I mean? It was, it was real quick. And the COs split us up.

They, boom, take me to the shoe. The next day, for for rec in the morning the CO comes and he asked me who can you wreck with and I was like anybody they put me in the cell with two more Souragnos

and they were already uncuffed again too like if this was like a crazy USP or like the smooth program or something crazy you know they would have probably had pieces and booked me you know because I come into the cage and I'm cuffed they're not

you know but I see them talking to some Surenios in the cage over and so that's how I made the connection. Okay, these guys must be Surenos. So they uncuffed me. And the one guy that was closer to me was like, hey, you know, I'm just going to talk to these dudes real quick

and, you know, and then we'll get with you after we're done talking. I'm like, the fuck we are. So I just take off on him. and then the other guy, he tries to fight me and me and him, we started getting it, right? Because the first dude that I started cracking,

he just kind of backed up and was trying to get away from the fence. And then I turned around and started fighting with the other guy. That's when the first dude, again, did the same move. Rush me, you know, try to wrestle with me. But the other guy that was now free

and was trying to hit me, he was a lot slower. So he couldn't, he wasn't piecing me up like the, the first Soudanielan, the Chahaw. And then we all just start wrestling because in the dude that was, you know, swinging on me, you know, he rushes me

and then we just all go to the ground and we're just, I'm trying to get away, I'm trying to elbow kick, right? And so the COs come in again, break us up, do the thing, right? Take us back. You know, we have to wash off the mace and all that other stuff, right?

Like we did from the Chowhall fight. But what was weird was, then the so that was a Friday and a Saturday that all that shit happened Monday when the warding comes back to work she's like heated she comes to my

because I she comes to myself I haven't given I haven't been given like how much time I'm going to do in the shoe right you get a certain amount of time and she's like I'm going to do whatever I can to make sure that I eliminate your shoe time

I don't care how long it is and you're going to get the hell out of my prison and I was like fine with me you know But what was weird was One of the guys that I got into I never forget this Because SIS came and wanted to know

Hey, what's your problem? Like there's another bulldog out here. And again, I'm just like, hey man. Why was his paperwork bad? Because he had checked in at a state prison. He P-Ced up in a state prison. Yeah. And it was finally able to trace back to him all those years.

The paperwork just follows you. It doesn't matter what you do, you'll get found out. That's crazy. And so that's how I knew. And we knew he was there. So my homeboy, Noe told me about it and was like, hey, man, you know, there's paperwork on him. He's no good. You know, when you get there, you know, do what you got to do.

Do whatever that may be. And so that's how, you know, I knew, okay, I'm not even going to be here. But one of the guys that I got into it with in the shoe was actually an Arizona Mexican Mafia. And when SIS was like, hey, man, what's your, what's your beef with Arizona and Mexican Mafia? I was like, what's your beef with Arizona? I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? You know, he's like, yeah, one of those guys was Arizona and Mexican Mafia. And I was just like, I don't know, man.

But I started, you know, thinking about it. Like, if that's not your beef, then you know what I mean? Like, if there was two guys that had problems and I'm not in the mix with either or, then I'm going to stay the hell out of it. He involved himself. So I think he's a sullenio. You know, it's like... So how much time did you spend in the shoe then?

So the warden was kind of true to her word. And I was there maybe, I don't know, six, seven months. And she, you know, terminated my shoe. That's a long time in the shoe, man. Isolation. That place was crazy because you had scorpions. That would fucking come into yourself, bro. And I'll never forget.

I was laying on my bunk reading a book. and like I saw like this little like under the cell door and I'm like what the hell is that right and I like look and you can hear it and I was like oh what the hell fuck and it like ran underneath my bunk and I'm looking and I'm like I thought I was tripping right and I was like no that's a freaking scorpion and it turned around and it like flexed on me and it was like ready to attack I was like oh shit I'm gonna kill this thing you know like you know and and I had like this little bottle this little spray bottle that was like cleaner that I used to clean my sink and all that. And it like shot like that straight little, you know, little spray. And so I started spraying him, right? And he brushed me, bro. He came up to me like, he, this is right. Yeah, you know.

And I got my sandal and just, you know, killed him. And I was like, what the hell? And like so every so often you get little scorpions in there. Damn, you have to check your shoes before you put them on. Yeah. Wow. That's so fucking creepy. Yeah, that was the fun thing.

So when you're in the shoe, are you, you're completely, have no bulldogs. You have no click. that must be lonely as a motherfucker. Yeah, I was wrecked alone, house alone. Wow. All that. I mean, but towards the end, there was a, they gave me a cellie. He was a, he was a pistoletto from Texas.

You can have cellies in the shoe? Yeah. Oh, yeah. He was a, he was a, he was a, a pistoletto from Texas. His name was Satanas, that was his name. And, and again with him, the like SIS was like, okay, are you sure you guys are okay? Like, if we sell you guys together, there's not going to be a problem. I was like, yeah, man, I was like, you put me with whoever, you know, they're like, yeah, well, you said that last time.

What happened, you know? But he was, you know, we were cool. As a matter of fact, when I, when I, because he was from San Antonio, when I finally paroled, I was living in San Antonio. And, and, you know, he was there and we hung out a couple times. Oh, wow. Went to some strip clubs and, you know. So how, where did you go to next when they got you out of the show? So I went to USP. Macquarie.

Okay. So now you're Macquarie. McQuary got weird. Yeah. You thought it was going to be chill. Yeah. And then people just started dying. That's crazy.

Tell us about how that kicked off. I know you mentioned it before. Yeah, yeah. Well, like I said, it started with the D.C. blacks. They, you know, ran into a unit because they had, you know, there was problems with the Florida blacks. And they ended up killing two of them. Fuck. And then, like I said, the white boys are like, oh, okay, it's killing season.

And they killed, I want to say he was a chomo. Probably. Yeah. want to say he was a he was he was I mean of course you know he was obviously something bad right because the white boys aren't going to take out another white boy unless he's you know dirty right so but I want to say it was a chomo and they again they rocked him to sleep brought them into the cell and I don't know if they stabbed them I'm trying to remember the details if they stabbed them or they they choked them anyways they killed the guy and they weren't prosecuted for that

and so everyone's seeing these guys come back out to the yard and it's like oh shit okay we're not going to get away with it. I mean, we're going to get away with it. It is what it is. You know, and so a lot of stuff started happening then, you know. Who are the white guys? Is it Macquarie and FCI? No, it's a USB.

Okay, because your points went back up for being in the shoe. So now you're back to square one. Yeah. Yeah. So I get to Macquarie. So is that AB guys or Nazi lowriders? No, no, no. So we had, there was Texas AB there.

So the NF, one of their enemies is the California AB. So the originals. Yeah. The only AB in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. As a matter of fact, when I was in Coleman, some Texas A.Bs rolled up that almost got killed in Victorville. Really?

California A.B. Yeah. Dude had some missing intestines. He had like a plate in his head. Fuck. Yeah. They were trying to kill them. And again, it's California A.B.

They're not going to stomp you out. They're going to try to cut your head off and do crazy shit, right? Like, they set a tone, you know. So in Macquarie, though, it was just Texas A-B. And Aryan Circle, they're out of Texas. And like Ohio, like, it was different states that had their own AB factions that were there. But one particular AB, the California, that's not one of their yards, you know. Also, too, I don't know, because I know they're going at it with the NF.

Who was the biggest, well, demographic-wise in your time in the feds? who's the most populous, Latinos, Blacks or whites? Like, how would you... I would say it's a mixture of blacks and Latinos. Okay. And the only reason, I mean, what makes the numbers for blacks so high

is Washington, D.C. Because no matter what you do, it's a federal case. Right. Yeah. So they're always the biggest car or to be the PISA's that are the biggest car. That makes sense.

The D.C. blacks, therefore, they're the strongest prison black prison gay. Oh, that makes sense. And the Pice is, of course, for drug traffic. trafficking, being here illegally, all that other stuff. Yeah. Wow. That makes so much sense. Damn, so you're back at McQuary. How much time did you have to go when you got there?

So had you lost good time? Yeah. Yeah. I assume. Yeah. And what thing about the fed is once you lose it, you can't get it back. There's no like there's no like programming. No. Like once you lose it, you lose it. You know, like that's it. Wow. Yeah. And so I get to McQuary. And at this time, my counselor was telling me that I could get halfway house and that if I did R-Dap, I could get a year off, right? And so I'm like, oh, okay, cool, you know, like, where can I go to get that? Like, what can I do? And he was like, you all get all this stuff together.

He was like, but you can do those. He was like, you can for sure get halfway house if we can't get you to an R-Dap program. He's like, but, you know, that'll take six months off your release date. He was like, if you do the RDAP, that's a year. He's like, so you can, you know, take 18 months off. And I'm like, oh, bad, that'll put me like a year to the house from today, you know. Well, he lied to me because he didn't know I had a state case pending, you know. We did know either.

Yeah. Well, what it was is it was a probation violation for my, you know, how I was on probation for that gun and the sales and the gang enhancement. Yep. What was funny was, I'm going to take you back to the county jail. When I was fighting my case, back then the feds didn't really talk to state, you know, like the feds would do something and that was it. So my PO was trying to check in with me, couldn't get a hold of me.

And one day I'm watching the TV in the pod and I'm on crime stoppers. They're looking for me. And you're already locked up. And I was like, and all the homeboys are looking and they're like, hey, Looney ain't that of you? And I was like, that's me, right? And so I'm like, oh, what the hell? And then, you know, at then we're, you know, at that time, we're still getting newspapers. And so I'm like looking and I'm like, oh, what the heck?

They even put an ad, a crime stopper's ad in the newspaper, right? And so the next time that my mom comes to visit, I'm like, hey, mom, you know, call in and get that $1,000, you know, whatever you need it for. She was like, okay, okay. She calls in, she tells them. And they're like, and so she's like, you know, hey, you know, can I collect the money? Like, what's up? And they're like, well, we're only going to give you $100. And she's like, what?

she was like yeah they're like well he's in jail already and she was like yeah I know but I'm telling you where he's at you wanted the information give me my thousand dollars and so they ended up just giving her a hundred you know but it's still so that state case never got resolved so I still had that pending so when my counselor did start doing his research and his work to see what I can get he then called me back in you know about a month later and was like hey man I lied to you like you're gonna have to max out like you can't get a halfway house you can't do the R DAP and I was like And I told him straight up, I was like, look, man, you're, you're fucking with my release date. Like, you don't do that with a convict. Like, someone that's doing time. You don't tell them, hey, like, you can go home two years earlier, 18 months earlier. You don't do that, you know? I was like, man, that's fucked up. Like, what do you, you know, all of a sudden, now I can't?

And he was like, yeah, I know, I'm sorry. You know, my bad. He's like, but how would you like to go to FCI? And I was like, all right, you know? And so that was kind of like his way of, like, shutting me up and like not making a problem out of it, right? He was like, okay, he's like, you know, here in a couple months, I can like, you know, reduce your points or whatever and we'll send you to an FCI. I was like, all right, cool. And so like, I was in McQuary maybe a year, I want to say.

I see. And then he put me in to transfer and I went to FCIL Reno. So when you were in McQuary, though, you didn't know if you had two years to go. Did you, were you still hustling? No, no. So McQuary was bone dry. like they didn't care about tattooing. They didn't care anything about tattooing.

You could actually like put your needles in an envelope and put it on your like your tackboard and write needles and they wouldn't take them. They wouldn't take your tattoo machines. They wouldn't do any of that. They didn't care. But drugs and being a gunner, no, they did not play. Really? Yeah. Even though people, but you said people are getting away with murder.

Yeah. They were. But they cared. But drugs was a zero tolerance. And they're visiting rules. and the visitation was like they were super strict. They were on, I mean, I never got a visit,

but like other people that did, you know, and they would tell me and I was like, oh shit, like, okay, no wonder why there's no weed on the yard. Right, right. But, you know, people were making Pruno, making, you know, moonshine and doing that. So what are the hustles if you can't get drugs into a prison? Is Pruno one of them?

Yeah. There's people making batches, right? Okay, tell us a little bit about that. That's interesting. Yeah, so they, it was, it was typically the white boys. the white boys would be the wine makers

Yeah Yeah And it was It was It was pretty cool because I tattooed on a So I'm trying to remember Because there's

ABT And then there's Texas AB Right There's there's there I remember there would always be like You know no okay No I'm ABT or no I'm Texas AB

Like there were two distinct factions Right And I want to say he was he was a he was a bt um anyways he he made uh moonshine and every friday he'd give me like a water bottle full of moonshine uh because i was tattooing him i would do some of his tattoos yeah of course there are certain tattoos i couldn't do you know because him being who he is if he wanted anything you know uh heritage related white pride related ab related his brothers had to do that I see.

So there's politics around the tattoo. Yeah. That's interesting. Matter of fact, when I was in Coleman, there was this little white boy, and for some odd reason, he tattooed a swastika on his arm. And the Texas A-Bs were like, oh, okay, you want to tattoo a swastika? You're now fucking holding our knives. You're now doing it.

And they put him to work. They started telling him. And then he got tired of it and checked him. So you have to get sanctioned before you get gang tattoos. Yeah. They were pissed. They were like, oh, okay. You want to do that?

Like, now that's fascinating. Why would they allow murder? but no knives. I think it's because the DA wouldn't pick it up. Yeah. You know, I don't know. Because it's, it boils, you know, like there has to be some, because, you know, in the end, it's the district attorney in that area.

The jurisdiction. Yeah. That will say, hey, okay, we're going to take that case. You're being prosecuted. That makes sense. Yeah. How fascinating is that even though it's the federal government, each institution is kind of its own entity in its own region,

depending on so many factors. Yeah. how many cases does the AUSA have? They have so many drug cases that, unless it's a bunch, just send them to the hole. That's crazy. Yeah.

And as a matter of fact, I got kind of curious, I don't know, I think it was like maybe about four or five months ago, just to see how, like, if McQuarrie was still like that. And I saw like some articles from like,

I don't know, maybe I want to say 2019, 2020 or something like that, where this other white guy again was killed and like no one's been prosecuted for it. Yeah. So I'm like, oh, okay, I guess there's, up until that point, they were still at it. They're still getting killed, even with no drugs in there.

Maybe that makes it even more violent. Yeah. Yeah. Who knows? So what would a thing, a moonshine, what would that, like, sell for? It depends. It depends on what yard you're on. So in McQuarrie, I want to say it was like, it was like $30 books.

It was like $100. Wow. And Coleman was $10, which was like $40. Yeah, Coleman was a lot cheaper because there was so much of it. And that's all profit. Yeah. What is moonshine, good moonshine in the feds made out of? Do you know, do you know the recipe or they keep that proprietary?

No, no, no. They, they would, I mean, I never, I don't know, it just wasn't my jam to make that stuff. But, you know, I would see them sometimes from time to time because, like I said, you know, the white guy that would, you know, give me moonshine. Sometimes he would call me in and he'd have like a little empty prescription bottle and he would just dip it in the shine and I'd take a little shot or whatever and I would see his little get up, you know. Wow.

But basically it was just taking the pruno and distilling it, like in making moonshine, you know, boil it and run a hose into another bag and collect it. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So oranges. Yeah.

The base is oranges. Sugar packets. Yeah. Anything that you can get that's sugar, you know. But they're really good. Like they're not. Not tasty, I would say, but like they're, they're effective. They're strong as fuck.

Yeah, bro. Dude, a bottle of that, me and my cellie would kill it and we get fucked up. Blasted. Blasted. So where like the next day we're just like, what? And that's why I didn't really, it didn't, after a while, didn't really, it wasn't my job. Like, it wasn't my get down because I hated the next morning being all like, you know, so. At what point did you, were you planning on, I don't know, what did you have planned for when you got out?

Bro, honestly, at that point, I didn't care. Like, so, so the, the, the, the, the, there are three events that happened when I was in prison that when I finally paroled, that's when I was like, no, I'm going to do my thing. and I'm not coming back to this shit. The first event happened in Tucson. So after that incident, in the shoe, you only get one 15-minute phone call a month. So it's been a while since my mom's heard for me

and I'm talking to her. And she can tell by how silent it is. She's like, you're in the shoe, huh? I was like, yeah. And she like just broke down and was like, are you ever going to like learn? When you were born,

I didn't have these goals. for you to be this wild prison guy. Like, don't you want to make something out of your life? You know, like, and she, you could just hear, I mean, Latina moms, like, their boys can do no wrong, right? Like, we are freaking, man, we're coddled to the fullest, right? And so to hear her finally be like, don't you want to make something of your life? Like, when you were born, I wanted you to go to college, be an engineer,

do all this other stuff. Like, what is wrong with you? like, is this what you want for your life, you know? And it, oh my God, bro, he broke me down, you know, because I'm super close with my mom. My mom is like the sweetest woman on earth, you know? And that, and that night, I'm glad I was housed alone. Because, bro, I just bawled and bald. I just thought about all the pain.

Like, I could hear it in my mom, like the pain and suffering and the stress that I'm causing her, you know. I'm our only son, you know, and here I am doing stuff that can get me killed. No regard for how my mom feels. right? Just realizing how selfish I was and I'm just like, bro, it was like, I've never cried like that ever, ever. It's hard for me to cry, I think just based on like how my dad raised me, but that was like one time, bro, it just would not stop, you know? And then, so then that happens.

And it starts to kind of like, man, dude, like I'm really like stressing my mom out, you know? Where was your father this whole time? He was out, he was out there. He was, you know, working. And your mom and dad split? No, no, they're actually still together. Okay. But he must have been ashamed to you on another level.

Yeah, he was because he, and as ironic as it is, like, because he's been in some trouble, you know, when he was in Mexico and stuff. And he just was like, man, dude, like, you're in prison. Like, he wasn't super ashamed. He just was like, at least when you get out, you know, get a job, get, you know, work. Don't just be this street guy. running, you know, running around crazy in the streets. So, but me, you know, my dad and I, we, at this time, we, we didn't really talk a lot. We weren't really close.

Yeah. And so, uh, and so, so that happens, right? I get to McQuary. And like, maybe a month or so before I go to El Reno, there was this, um, this black man that was a lifer. He'd been down like 30 years. And, uh, his name was Roach, a super stand up dude, like a convict convict. You know what I mean?

And he was from the Midwest. He was so convict like any like, even if you weren't a black from the Midwest, but like he really like dealt with you tough and he was cool with you. He would show you his paperwork, which he didn't have to, you know, but he would do it just so you knew, okay, like, I'm not a snitch. I'm not, I'm not any of that. I'm a stand-up dude. And so one day, it was an Easter event and he invited me to church.

I've never been. I don't do church. I don't do any of that. and he was like, yeah, man, if you want to check it out, he's like, we're just going to gather. It's not going to be like a super churchy thing. We're just going to hang out. And, you know, what the prison will do is like, so if you're like registered like Muslim, Christian or whatever, when it's, when it's religious events, you get like access to better food. Because they'll know, like have better ingredients.

And then you guys will make it in the chow hall and then have it, you know, and then move it to the to the rec room. And so I'm like, yeah, okay, cool, whatever, you know, hang out frigging, you know, I think it was, I don't know, something with rice and some other stuff, right? It sounded good. So I was like, yeah, I'll roll. And McQuarrie's a split yard. So if some guys are on the yard, it's because they're from units across the yard. And, you know, we stay inside the unit. So I'm going out and I see some homeboys out there.

And they're like, hey, where are you going? I'm like, oh, man, you know, Roach invited me to go to church. He wants me to go check this out or whatever. And they're like, church. I was like, yeah, I was like, I didn't want to disrespect the guy. I felt like it would be disrespectful to be like, no, I'm good, bro. Like, you know, because he invited me. It's an invitation.

You know, it's almost like if I, you know, hey, I made this for you and you don't accept it. It's kind of disrespectful. At least that's how I saw it, right? And so I was like, yeah, I'm going to church. And they kind of like looked at me and I was like, and in my mind, I'm thinking like, oh, don't start no shit over this, dude. Like, I know you two.

You two aren't cut like that. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I was like thinking like, oh, it would. would be you two fucking little weasels, you know? And so I take off, but something tells me to turn around and look. And I'm, I turn around and I look at them. And they're kind of giving each other this look like, okay, like, do we need to, who do we need to tell?

Like, basically it was the beginning of a smear campaign, if you will, right? Like, because then I get to the hallway that leads to the wreck area. And from there, it's a, it's enclosed, it's a brick wall. but they have windows every, I don't know, 10 feet, 20 feet. They have windows, right? And I could see onto the yard and I watched them. Do, do, do, do, do, right? And they went and told certain individuals that I knew, I'm like, oh, you guys are trying

to, like, smut me up in a way to where it's like, oh, he's getting soft because he went to a church event or like, oh, he can't be doing that, you know? And I'm thinking to myself, like, I'm a boo dog. Like, even if I was like, say I wanted to be a hardcore Christian and go to church and all that, I can do that. You know what I mean? Like, I'm simply doing this because, you know, a solid dude invited me and I'm going to go over there

and break bread with, or really, he's going to break bread with me, you know? And so that was kind of like an event that put a real bad taste in my mouth. And I was like, thinking of myself, like, dude, I just came from Tucson, dude, putting in all this work. You guys have never done that. You know, and here you are.

I was like, and I kind of got very disgusted. Yeah. You know, and from that point on, I kind of moved alone. Like, yeah, I was respectful. Yeah, hey, what's up? But I kind of like, you know, don't invite me to eat. Like, I was just very alone at that time, you know? And then when I get to FCIO Reno, it was very uneventful there. Like, I didn't, there was nothing to get into. It was like, I think it was there for like a year, you know. But one event, um, happened that like compounded on top of the event with my mom. I was, in the rec room and football was on college football. I love college football. I love college football, right? And especially

Texas A&M, the Aggies, man. And so I was watching the game and I was sitting there and I was thinking to myself like, bro, you could have been in those stands right now. You know what I mean? Like had you just been like, you know what? Got out of juvenile hall, didn't roll with those guys. Because that's where it kind of started. That's where it started from, you know?

Had you just been like, you know what? Like I had my taste of juvenile hall It's not fun I don't want to do this you know And really like just You know put your You know like my mom says nose to the grindstone You would be in those stands right now

Maybe not text saying N but you would be at some college Watching a football game on a Saturday And I was like dang bro Like you fucking piece of shit You know I just got disgusted with myself bro I just was like Bro you wasted your fucking life You are throwing your life down the drain

For some fucking idiots that don't care about you. You couldn't even go to church without them wanting to stab you in the back. You know what I mean? Like what kind of friends are those? And so I'm sitting there and at this time, I didn't know you can go to a community college and then transfer. I didn't know that. For some odd reason, bro, I thought you had to go right out of high school. I thought you had to go high school, college, and then that was it, you know? I didn't know anything about community college and then transferring to A&M or any of these.

Yeah, I didn't know. And so I'm thinking of myself, you blew your opportunity, bro. You fucking just wasted that opportunity for what? For what? So some fucking heroin addict can think you're down? And bro, I just, I didn't cry because I'm in the ret. You know, I'm holding it in. But I'm just like, oh my God, bro.

It's a low moment. Yeah, you know. And so those three events were the ones that like when I got out, I was like, okay, I can't do college. So I thought, I can't do college. you know, I'll just work as a welder. I'll do something in the trades and, and, and, and make something on myself. Right.

You know. So you did seven. Yeah. Seven clean. Mm-hmm. Not clean, but seven even. Yeah. Okay.

Wow. And so you came home. When did you discover that you could go to community college and then transfer? My sister. So, so my sister was in college at the time. My little sister. And, um, she's working in this upper division like statutes. like stats class.

And so, um, so, so, like I said, I went to San Antonio, but then why? So my parents moved out there.

Oh, okay. Yeah, my parents moved out there. So, so as soon as I paroled, bam, I went to San Antonio.

That was 2016? Yeah. Okay. 26. Very, or sorry, sorry, the end of 2015. Like the very end,

we went out to San Antonio. And then, uh, like the summer of 2016, we, we all moved back to California. because my mom's job, it was something to do with my mom's job, sent her back to California.

And my sister was with her too at the time. And my sister was doing college. And so I went to go visit them because they were living in Salinas at the time. And I was in Fresno. And I was joking with my sister. And she like, I forgot the exact math problem. She was working on. But like she was talking about it, right?

And I kind of put two couple pieces together. and she kind of looked at me and she was like, yeah, that's, that's right. You know, and I was like, oh. And then she was like, hey, you should go back to college. I was like, can't do that. What are you talking about? And she broke it down to me. She was like, yeah, you go to a community college.

You do your two or three years there, however long. And then you transfer. And I was like, what? And she's like, yeah, you can go to a four-year university. You just have to do your undergrad or your lower division at the community college. And then if the four-year university accepts you, then you go. And still at that time, I was like, no, I'm a convict. I have a criminal record.

I don't want to go to college, not get a job because of my record. And then I told her, I was like, plus, look at me. I told her, like, guys like me don't go to college. You know what I mean? Like, I'm fresh out of prison. Right. You know, no. And it actually wasn't until the following year that I went back.

And that's because I had an amazing opportunity lined up with a welding union in Fresno. and, you know, it fell through, and that was like my sign to be like, okay, I'm going to college, you know. And I told my sister, I called her because I was like, hey, man, you know, and I explained it to her. I was like, you remember that amazing, you know, opportunity, how I was supposed to be like on the next thing smoking to go work on the pipeline. I was like, yeah, well, a dumb little mistake booted me from that. I put down my number wrong. So when they called me or when they called to have me go work, they called the wrong number. And so they took me off the list because it's like that, you know.

And so I told her that's the sign I needed. I was like, I'm, I'm, take me to Fresn City College and, and show me what I need to do. Wow. And, um, and you're just taking general courses, right? You don't know what you're majoring in yet. I don't know anything about majors. I don't know. But your mom had told you from a young age that she wanted you to be an engineer.

Yeah. So did you have a gift for math and for problem solving like that? Why did you, why would she have said that? I, I mean, honestly, I just, I think that's what she wanted. for me, you know? Interesting. Like she, she wanted,

she wanted me to get a good career. Yeah. You know, an engineering field, you know, the lot of great opportunities, right? And so,

yeah, and so I get to, you know, Fresnel City, at that time, they were making you do a math placement test to see where you place.

And they had three tests that were 45 questions each. One was like the lowest. Then you had, like, think of it as like the easiest and then a medium. And then like this,

the hardest one had like some calculus. and some other stuff in there. And so I take the easiest one because I'm like, bro, I haven't been in school in years, you know, and killed it. Like, yeah, I think I got like one problem wrong. And I'll never forget the lady that was working there. Her name is Harvey Gill.

And she looked and she was like, oh, no, no, no, no. She's like, I'm going to give you the hardest one. And then from there we'll determine what you want to do. And so I'm like doing some of the problems. And then like some of them I didn't know, right? because it's, you know, they're pretty difficult. But like I could see like someone had circled and then erased. So I would just guess.

I'd be, okay, that's the answer, right? And the outcome, I could either go to trigonometry or I could do algebra. And then so the way it worked was in trigonometry led to pre-Cal. And then you had calculus one, two, three, and then differential equations. And so Harvey, she starts talking to me. And she's like, hey, what do you want to make? and I'm like, dude, I don't know anything about majors. She's like, well, what do you like to do?

I was like, I like to work my hands and build stuff. She's like, all right, you're going to be an engineering major. And I was like, all right. She's like, well, with that said, trigonometry is one above algebra. She's, I want to place you in trigonometry. And I remember thinking, too, bro, I was thinking like, trigonometry? Like, how the fuck do you even spell that?

You know what I mean? And I'm thinking to myself, like, she's going to put me in this class. And I don't even know how to spell the damn class. When I got out to text my sister, I didn't even know how to spell it. I was just like trigger and good thing to auto correct popped up. And I was like, oh, okay, yeah, there it is. You know, because I didn't know how to spell it. And I'm thinking to myself like, I'm going to go into this class.

I don't know anything about college. I don't know what, bro, I don't know two shits about college. Okay. And. And then I remember I'm very much like I can hype myself up. You know what I mean? Like I'm the kind of guy that I can like look in the mirror and be like, you got this motherfucker. Like you ready?

you know, like, and I'm, and then I boom, I'm gone, you know. And so I remember doing that for this class and I killed the class, bro. Wow. Annihilated it. Just a natural at it. At math. Yeah, yeah, I want to say so. Yeah.

Yes and no. Because I don't want to like discredit the hours I put in and the hard work. You know what I mean? Definitely. But some people just have a propensity for it. Like I, it doesn't matter how many hours I spend, like I can't even pass algebra. for real. I'm just not that brained on the other side. Yeah. Yeah. For me, I can.

Yeah. I can, I get, I get, I could see the patterns and the rhythm, you know. And at that time, like I said, I didn't know two shits. And so I didn't even, I didn't even know about rate my professor. You know, rate my professor. You can go on there and see what people have said about the professor, you know, harsh grader. Yeah. You know, boring lecture or whatever. Right. And the math professor that I chose was the hardest math professor. She was like feared at Fresno City, right? Miss Wynn. And she was like, bro, she, but it was what I like the discipline. I like how strict she was, you know.

And she was the one, as a matter of fact, that told me at the end of, now mind you, I've had laser removal. And at this time, I didn't. I still had my whole face blasted. Wow. Yeah. And so I always had that like, man, I'm not good enough. Like, man, look at me. You know, and look at all these other students.

you know what I mean? Like I'm this ex-gang member. Ex-convict. You know? And I'm like, what the hell? And she pulled me to the side and was like, you need to be a math tutor.

And I was like, what? She's like, I'm going to recommend that you'll be a math tutor for Fresno City. And I was like, but I've only taken trigonometry. She's like, it's okay.

As you go along, you'll be able to, after you take classes, you'll be a math tutor. And so like, I didn't even want to do it. Because again, I had that own,

like stigma of my, like, I had that own, self perception. You know, I'm like, I don't belong here. Self concept. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I just said, fuck it.

All right, let's go. And I became a math tutor the next semester. I take pre-Cal and two of my good friends, they ended up becoming good friends, you know, during my time at Fresnel City, they're math tutors. And they are finishing up calculus two. So they're going to start, and this is the spring of 2018, they're going to start calculus three.

in the fall of 2018. So they bring up this amazing idea and put the batteries in my freaking battery pack. And they say, hey, calculus one and calculus two are offered in the summer. You could do calculus one in four weeks and calculus two and six weeks and join us for calculus three in the fall. And I was like, you're on. And so I did it.

I got A's in both classes. Calculus 2, I had a big bone to pick with the teacher because my first day of class, he's reading off names and he says my name and I'm like, here, you know, and he kind of looks at me like, what the fuck, you know? And that was all I needed. I was like, oh, okay, I got you, bro. I got you.

Watch what I do to your exams. You know, there's some times where, like, he played, he put an extra credit question and I would get like 113% on the exam or 104% I said 113. Shout out to all the Sourenos that would catch that. But anyways,

and I did so well that when it came to this final, I needed a 70% to keep my A in the class. And so there was 12 questions and I only did eight. I killed those eight. Didn't even do the last four and just turned it in. and to be like, I don't need to do the entire exam.

Like, this is what I'm about, you know. And I've always kind of carried that. Yeah, a piece of motivation. Yeah. Like if professors, you know, kind of doubt me, or if other students are kind of like, yo, what are you doing here? I'm like, oh, watch, watch. You know, and so I ended up doing calculus three in the fall, got an A in that as well,

did differential equations the following spring after, that. I got an A in that as well. And so once I, you know, completed all those courses, I was then a tutor, you know, tutored calculus. Yeah. And then you got basically straight A's. You got great marks. How does that lead to Stanford? Man. So I, um, so I had to do a bunch of physics. I got A's in that as well. Chemistry. I did some computer science, some engineering courses. Um, very, very. minimal like gen ed because I was an engineering major

my GPA I think was like a 3.9 or something and I wasn't even going to apply to Stanford I wasn't really going to apply to a lot of schools that I did and you know because again I didn't really know

I didn't really know much you know I didn't know that you could go to Stanford like I knew Stanford existed at this time because people would talk you know and you would hear right. And so I didn't know I could transfer there though. And it was one of the financial, like, so community colleges, though, have like little, little meeting or like not meetings, but like little conferences, little seminars that will tell you about financial aid here, there, right? The UC system, the CSU system. And so, um, a buddy of mine that went to one of those, you know, he came back and told me and was like, you know, these like private university. if you don't, if your, you know, income is low enough, it's a full ride. And so I thought to myself like, oh, dang, okay, cool. You know, he was like, yeah, Stanford's one of them.

He said, Princeton, Harvard. He named off a couple of the, obviously, the well-known ones, right? And I was like, oh, okay, all right. He was like, so, you know, you should apply. He's like, bro, you got a high GPA. And I was like, yeah, you're right, you know, okay. And so I just started looking at schools. I started seeing, you know, researching what schools had better financial aid

because, you know, it's a thing for me. I need to be able to financially afford it. And so I applied to, I applied to Stanford, UCLA, Georgia Tech, University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign, UC Berkeley, Irvine, all the Uc's, basically. U.T. Austin, Texas A&M. I know there's a couple of in there. that I'm forgetting. Oh, Cornell. Cornell was one.

Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. And so from there, I was accepted to all of them except UC Berkeley and Cornell. Wow. So you had your pick.

And you chose Stanford. And I chose Stanford. For one, it's the Bay Area. Yeah. For two is full ride. Everything was paid for. Wow. Everything.

I had meal plan, housing, tuition paid for, books paid for, everything paid for. For four years? For two years. For two years. Okay. Because you've already done two in community college. Yeah, for two years. I've been there four years now.

I'm graduating next quarter. You got because with a master's, right? No, no. Still my undergrad. Still my undergrad. I see. I see. Because I found a little being a convict, you know, old habits die hard.

I found a way to kind of maneuver through the system and get more time. at Stanford. And so, because I don't want to leave. I don't want to leave. You know, it's, I've, I can't even begin. I don't even think I'll be able to finish, you know, with the list of all the amazing people I've, crazy people I've met, you know, billionaires and tech gurus and like, it's just, no, it's a breeding ground for like the, the masters of the universe. Yes. The greatest minds that exist in the world. Yes. All come out of that, that bubble. and it's insane. Like, so, so, and honestly, I loved it because it humbled me.

Yeah. It humbled me. Like, I, I didn't think I was like, you know, big shit or anything, but I kind of, I felt good. Like, I was like, man, bro, I've accomplished something. Of course, you should. You know, you know, it's like, I'm like, yeah, you know, and oh my gosh, my mom, you know, again, you know, put me into freaking crying like a baby when I told her, you know, and she just was like, you could, oh my, bro, you could just hear it in her voice.

Like, I could still hear that voice when I told her. And she just was so happy. And she was talking about praise Jesus and it. And she just was being like, at first she thought I was playing with her. Because when I called her, I was like, hey, mom, you know, I just, you know, I got accepted to Stanford. And she's like, stop playing. I was like, no, I'm serious. I just got the acceptance letter.

I got, I'm going to Stanford. And she just, boom. Yeah. Yeah. And so. And so that was just like a, like a. just like what I needed in life, you know, to finally be like, okay, like, I have, I, I know I haven't completely righted my wrongs, you know, because there are some people that I have hurt that I haven't

been able to apologize to, but at least for like her, kind of, I kind of feel like now she's, instead of being like, oh, yeah, you know, when they would ask, where's Paul, you know, oh, he's in prison still, you know, now she can be like, oh, he's at Stanford. Yeah, you know what I mean? Absolutely. Yeah, so it felt really good to, so cool. Yeah. What about your father?

Oh, he doesn't know anything about college. So when I told him, he was kind of like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah. Because he doesn't, you know, he in Mexico, he dropped out in the sixth grade, you know, to help feed his family, you know. So he just was kind of like, and I even told him, I was like, this is one of the best universities in the entire world. Like not just the nation, the world. I was like, it's, it's like, what, a 4% acceptance rate for freshmen. And then for like transfer students at the time, I think it was like one, a little over 1% acceptance rate.

And, you know, just telling him that he was kind of like, oh, dang, he's like, oh, okay, well, you know, you know, etche le ganas, you know. And I was like, and that was it, you know, because like I said, he doesn't really understand the gravity of it, you know. Wow. Yeah, but it and have you forgiven him? So that was like a major thing. Serving some healing. Yeah, that was like a major thing that happened in San Antonio, uh, was when he asked me for forgiveness. And, and it kind of felt like, like, I don't want to sound all cheesy and cliche.

but it really felt like, like, kind of like you became lighter, or I became lighter, you know, and I was just like, because he knew, like, he was kind of working on himself. He got sober. He used to drink heavy.

He got sober. And that process of getting sober, he realized like, man, I was a fucked up dad, you know. And so when he asked me forgiveness, you could see that he meant it, you know? And that was like,

I think that was like the first time he said, I love you, you know what I mean? Yeah. That's unreal. Yeah. And so when he, when he, when he asked for forgiveness and, you know, I forgave him, it kind of changed my, like, I wasn't like so, like, quick to become violent.

Like, I was, like, people could cut me off in the road and I'm still just like, okay. Yeah. After that, you know, I didn't. You know, I just, it was like I, I changed mentally, you know, and it was very, it was very much what I needed, you know, because. maneuvering into college and professional life, you can't, you don't resolve problems with fists, you know. And that's kind of like the darker side of Stanford. I've, you know, kids that come from wealth that come, you know,

their parents are donating millions of dollars. They're kind of like, oh, my dad donated money here. I can do what I want. Right. You know, and they play differently. Sure. It's like, oh, you don't like what I did. Okay, well, my dad's a lawyer and we could settle this in court.

Yeah. It's no longer I'm going to punch you. You know, you punch them. They're going to take you for everything you have. Yeah. You know, and it's like... You have to learn how to maneuver your mind away from the street. It's completely irrelevant.

The street life prison rules, it holds literally zero. I don't want to say zero because you learn things being in prison and being part of a gang, like respect and how to carry yourself and being honest, actually. but the rules really don't apply at all when it comes to real life. Yeah. Society. So you have to shed the old life. And I think, and that's a sentinel moment when your father apologized. Yeah.

Now it's like, now you can actually move forward because you might have gone back to the street if you had held on to that anger. Yeah. Yeah. Or done something dumb. Yeah. Because I was angry, you know. Yeah.

Yeah. So that was very, that was another pivotal moment in my life. So now, because we're going to switch over to the Patreon and just talk a little bit more, because I want to hear about your journey through Stanford. That's amazing, Paul. You have a job. You're graduating. You're about to graduate, I think, this semester. Yeah.

Who's your job with? Can you tell us? So, yeah, I'll be working with Phillips 66 as a midstream engineer. Wow. Yeah. So, again. Do you have your salary yet? Yeah.

Can you tell us? 105 in Houston. And should be more, but you'll get a raise. Yeah. You're just coming into the workforce. Yeah, exactly. And in Houston. I'm happy with 105 in Houston because I was doing the numbers and that's like making

200 in San Jose. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. And we already have like a, you know, neighborhood that we're going to move to. And all my family's out there in Houston. My sister, my mom and dad are going to be out there. Perfect.

Yeah. So at first I was kind of like 105 because you're hearing these crazy salaries coming out of Stanford, kids making, you know, going to a quant and they're making half a mill, you know, like, you're like, oh, man, 105, but I'm, I'm happy with it. And it's, and it's mainly because I'll be back with my family, you know. It's just going to keep going up. Yeah. And, and, and. And how old are you? Uh, 36. Wow. Yeah, 36. I, I, birthdays for me, I, I just kind of, you know, it's like, yeah. I mean, it just proof that, like, it's never too late. Yeah. Yeah. Unless you're doing life in prison. Exactly. You know. But even then, sometimes you

get action at getting out through education. That's true. That's why I feel like education is so important to those in prison. You know, it's a way to not only redeem yourself, but also get back who you are, you know, and, you know, change the outlook. Change the outlook that people have of you, you know, because it's, it's amazing to see, like, the shocked look on faces when I tell people I study electrical engineering at Stanford. Like, they're like, wait, what? And Do you talk to anybody Or write to anybody that's still locked up?

Some of my friends, they'll call. They've called. I don't write them, whatever. If I have a little extra cash, you know, some of my friends, I'll send them,

you know, Western Union. Or like I had a buddy that was in the county jail and I bought them a couple, you know, packages. But like, you know, now that financial aid is kind of cutting down,

you know, I don't have as much. you know, money. And, yeah, and so, starting with Phillips 66, with relocation and a sign-on bonus, it was close to like, I think it was like a little under 20,000 for that. And then, like I said, starting salaries 105. But they have amazing benefits, pension 401K.

Like, I got hooked up, you know, I got the works. And so I'll be out in Houston. And the reason, even more of a reason, why I signed was because at first the position was in Greeley, Colorado. And they had already, the recruiter had told me like, hey, the Houston office is not available. And so I was like, okay, you know, I can get hooked on with them. You know, I know they have a big office in Houston. It should be pretty, you know, easy to get to Houston.

And so as I was having an interview, it was, it was funny because the interview that I had with them, my Stanford polo was dirty. So I have a Texas A&M polo and I had that on. And one of the interviewers, he's a UT Austin grad. And he looks, he's like, oh, man, A&M, huh? And I was like, oh, you graduated from UT Austin, huh? I was like, you're a Longhorn, huh? I was like, hey, bro, like, don't use this against me.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, I go to Stanford, but I like Aggie football, you know? And so we just started shooting a shit. And it, man, amazing interview went amazing, right? So good that the next week, the recruiter called and was like, hey, I know we've told you, Houston's unavailable, but they made something, they did something and they made a position available. Wow. Just because they liked you. Yeah. Being liked is almost always more important than being good. Yeah. Yeah. As a matter of fact, I have a friend that is at Stanford as well.

He was before college, he was a green beret. And he got a job at Nvidia because the interviewer was like asking him questions from like his shit kicker days and just was like so. intrigued and bam. He had a job. Yeah. Just be personable, man. It'll take you a long way. Paul, thank you so much, man. Congratulations on all your success. I hope this inspires. It's the reason I had you on. You don't have anything to plug. You didn't write a book. Yeah. That's in the works. A book? Okay. The book's in the works. Okay. So, but, you know, on the whole, you just wanted to come here to tell your story. And I feel like this is going to help somebody watching or listening. It's going to motivate them.

This is America, for God's sakes. You can get out and, you know, turn your life around. Especially nowadays. Like it's the, we forgive people's past now and the attitudes towards incarceration, towards drugs. It's, it's the most liberal time that's ever been in the history of the country. So let this be a lesson to somebody out there that thinks like they can't do it. Maybe it's not going to be engineering, but there will be another path for you. So thank you so much.

It really, really appreciate it, buddy. Yeah, thank you. All right. And we're going to switch over now just to chat a little bit more on Patreon. Patreon.com slash the Connect show. Paul Calvo, everybody. Congratulations. He's not a duck, but we'll let that slide.

Dude, my alma mater, University of Oregon, dude. They didn't put on a lot of engineers, just podcasters. All right. See you later, guys. Take care.